FLDS - Court Proceedings and Rulings

[Leila]

Judge to rule on which of polygamous sect's documents can be evidence

SAN ANGELO, Texas - A Dallas appellate judge will begin a private review today of computer hard drives and 1,000 boxes of documents seized from the Yearning for Zion Ranch to determine which may fall under the protections of the clergy-penitent privilege.
The content of the boxes, stacked floor-to-ceiling high in a Texas Department of Public Safety room, includes letters written to FLDS Prophet Warren Jeffs, church membership lists and genealogy charts, medical records and hand-written notations pertaining to ongoing criminal cases. The documents were taken from the ranch, owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, in a raid that began April 3.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9085245

[mysteriew]

Judge to rule on which of polygamous sect's documents can be evidence

SAN ANGELO, Texas - A Dallas appellate judge will begin a private review today of computer hard drives and 1,000 boxes of documents seized from the Yearning for Zion Ranch to determine which may fall under the protections of the clergy-penitent privilege.
The content of the boxes, stacked floor-to-ceiling high in a Texas Department of Public Safety room, includes letters written to FLDS Prophet Warren Jeffs, church membership lists and genealogy charts, medical records and hand-written notations pertaining to ongoing criminal cases. The documents were taken from the ranch, owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, in a raid that began April 3.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9085245

LOL, surprise surprise it didn't work out with the church's lawyers being the one to determine was relevant or priveleged. I am happy that now an independent person is the one that will be doing it. I do have to wonder though, just how many documents have disappeared while in the hands of the attorneys?

Note: the rep for Legal Aid has announced that they have completed a visitation schedule for the parents to visit the kids. So I guess we will be hearing a new round of complaints from the FLDS.

[mollymalone]

:p I get the feeling they'll not be happy about this choice either but life's not always going to give them their bowl of cherries. About time they figure that out.

[mollymalone]

This Judge is not putting up with nonsense.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695274735,00.html

Prosecutor Allison Palmer complained that during one full day, only half of one box had been inspected by two lawyers. She said attorneys for the church were slowing down the process by spending too much time analyzing the documents instead of simply determining whether the material was privileged.

"Judges have some experience doing that and it speeds things up," she said. After this week, another judge has been lined up to replace Francis to sort through the evidence."

[FlowerChild]

This all sounds so familiar somehow....


In 1953 however, the new Arizona Governor Howard Pyle acted. After the FBI and the US Attorney’s office both refused to cooperate, he conducted a state-run infiltration and surveillance program intended to once and for all close the FLDS down. Over 100 officers swept into town at 4 AM, arresting 33 men and taking 50 women and 253 children into protective custody. The full resources of the state were employed including welfare officials and specially hired counselors, physicians and nurses, juvenile psychologists, forensic accountants and multiple prosecutors. Governor Pyle addressed the state by radio, laying out the evidence (http://helpthechildbrides.com/coloradocity/pyle.htm) amassed over 26 months of investigation:
“Here is a community - many of the women, sadly, right along with the men - unalterably dedicated to the wicked theory that every maturing girl child should be forced into the bondage of multiple wifehood with men of all ages for the sole purpose of producing more children to be reared to become more chattels of this totally lawless enterprise.
“Highly competent investigators have been unable to find a single instance in the last decade of a girl child reaching the age of 15 without having been forced into a shameful mockery of marriage.
“All doubt is erased when it is realized that in the evidence the state has accumulated there are multiple instances of statutory rape, adultery, bigamy, open and notorious cohabitation, contributing to the delinquency of minors, marrying the spouse of another, and an all-embracing conspiracy to commit all of these crimes, along with various instances of income tax evasion, failure to comply with Arizona’s corporation laws, misappropriation of school funds, improper use of school facilities and falsification of public records.Persistent confusion over which children and which wives were associated with which men, a refusal of cooperation and deliberate deception from the women as witnesses and conflicting testimony between the state’s investigators and the FLDS membership turned the trials into farce. After all was done, 23 men received one-year suspended sentences and went home on unsupervised parole.
Worse, the national media portrayed the polygamists as a quaint religious order who were being wrongly prosecuted for their beliefs. A two-page spread in Life Magazine (http://helpthechildbrides.com/coloradocity/life1953/index.htm) portrayed a rugged, independent life style of happiness and self reliance being smashed under the heavy boot-heels of the police state. The infamy spread far and wide, and to this day any mention of “Short Creek” in the mountain West and everyone recognizes the reference to that raid.
http://www.correntewire.com/flds_stealing_the_schools_money_changing_texas_law s

[mollymalone]

Yes, but this time there is a Federal investigation, and this all took place in Texas, not Utah or AZ. Texas doesn't have the history the other two have politically with the hot potato of polygamy. Besides, there's a lot more attention being drawn to this incident than to the Short Creek fiasco.

With so much widespread fraud and other illegal activities being investigated, the financial empire this group has created based on the fraud, it can be dismantled by the State and the Feds, just like any other mob or criminal organization.

I believe the properties should be sold off, the financial empire dismantled and money given to the victims of this sect, but the rest should go into State and Federal coffers. The taxpayers will never recover the full amount of taxes this group evaded or refused to pay or has defrauded from them.

Recovering some of the funds is better than nothing, but the dismantling of their money would go a long way to breaking up this sects power.

[Leila]

Yes, but this time there is a Federal investigation, and this all took place in Texas, not Utah or AZ. Texas doesn't have the history the other two have politically with the hot potato of polygamy. Besides, there's a lot more attention being drawn to this incident than to the Short Creek fiasco.

With so much widespread fraud and other illegal activities being investigated, the financial empire this group has created based on the fraud, it can be dismantled by the State and the Feds, just like any other mob or criminal organization.

I believe the properties should be sold off, the financial empire dismantled and money given to the victims of this sect, but the rest should go into State and Federal coffers. The taxpayers will never recover the full amount of taxes this group evaded or refused to pay or has defrauded from them.

Recovering some of the funds is better than nothing, but the dismantling of their money would go a long way to breaking up this sects power.

I was very please to see that Senate Majority leader, Harry Reid is calling for a federal task force to look into FLDS abuse. I think a federal task force will be able to accomplish what Utah and Arizona have been unable to do. I agree that dismantling the financial structure will go a long way to ending the chain of abuse. In the end, the FLDS may slowly wither and die.

[mollymalone]

I was very please to see that Senate Majority leader, Harry Reid is calling for a federal task force to look into FLDS abuse. I think a federal task force will be able to accomplish what Utah and Arizona have been unable to do. I agree that dismantling the financial structure will go a long way to ending the chain of abuse. In the end, the FLDS may slowly wither and die.I don't think it will wither and die because they are too entrenched in their beliefs that they are above man's laws. Their leaders will find another way to scam and live off the fruitful labors of others. But now that there is a federal investigation and hopefully now a task force, in future they'll find their financial activities as well as their other illegal and abusive practices are monitored from now on.

[mykodiak]

SAN ANGELO, Texas - A judge has ordered the Texas Attorney General's Office to serve as the prosecutor on all criminal cases connected to last month's raid on the polygamous FLDS sect's compound in El Dorado.
The district attorney here filed a motion Monday requesting the Texas attorney general assume the cases. A state judge granted the request in a one-paragraph order issued the same day. The judge instructed the Texas attorney general to consider all cases arising from two search warrants served on the YFZ Ranch. So, now the AG has it. We'll see what he does with the cases.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9169598

[Ladybass0711]

Attorney General brought into YFZ Ranch case to help with prosecutions

State District Judge Barbara Walther has approved a motion appointing the Attorney General of Texas as a special prosecutor to assist with any criminal cases that may arise from the state's raid of the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado.
The request - described as routine in large, complex cases such as this one - was filed and granted Monday. Local prosecutors, meanwhile, said they anticipate filing charges in the case.
"It's early in the game," said First Assistant 51st District Attorney Allison Palmer, "but I expect that ultimately there will be some criminal prosecution coming out of
this."

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/06/judge-names-attorney-general-special-prosecutor/

No arrests have been made in the case, although the one issued arrest warrant - for 50-year-old Dale Barlow - remains active, she said, rejecting previous reports that it had been dropped.
"I don't think that's the correct term," she said. "We want to complete this investigation and evidence review" before making a decision on the warrant, which many believe was the result of a hoax phone call that sparked the April 3 raid on the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints compound.

[mysteriew]

That is the first step toward arrests. :clap: :clap:

They wouldn't request the assistance of the attorney general unless they anticipated arrests and many of them- more than what their attorney's office could handle.

[Leila]

That is the first step toward arrests. :clap: :clap:

They wouldn't request the assistance of the attorney general unless they anticipated arrests and many of them- more than what their attorney's office could handle.

I agree...........this is the first small step towards criminal prosecution. This is great news! :clap:

[mysteriew]

Patrick Crimmins, a spokesman for the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, said the 60-day hearings that begin May 19 are to review service plans developed for each child, check medical care and hear how the children are faring in foster care.
“This is not going to be a redo of whether abuse or neglect occurred,” Crimmins said.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9155046

[cheko1]

The lawyer representing the 3 boys 12-15 yrs old state the boys are homesick & want to return to there Moms. Isn't that about the age they get thrown out of the compound? At least in foster care they have a roof over there heads.

[Floh]

The lawyer representing the 3 boys 12-15 yrs old state the boys are homesick & want to return to there Moms. Isn't that about the age they get thrown out of the compound? At least in foster care they have a roof over there heads.

I wouldn't trust the lawyer. yes it is around the time they get dumped. :furious::furious::furious:

[mysteriew]

It is funny, I haven't seen where the FLDS has addressed the two 18 year old boys who have reportedly turned 18 since they were removed. And though they are now old enough to return to YFZ they have chosen to stay in the system.

[Leila]

It is funny, I haven't seen where the FLDS has addressed the two 18 year old boys who have reportedly turned 18 since they were removed. And though they are now old enough to return to YFZ they have chosen to stay in the system.

In FLDS terminology, they're now apostates, and I doubt the FLDS will ever mention them.

The three boys may miss their mothers, and even in cases where a parent is in jail/prison for a terrible crime, the children miss the parent. The children don't understand the situation, and why it's for their safety to be separated from their parent.

[Pepper]

Oh no. Texas court of appeals rules that CPS had NO RIGHT to remove the children from the YFZ ranch. This is not good.

They haven't said that the investigation should not proceed, nor have they said the children need to be released back to their parents.

This will go to the state Supreme Court before it's all over.

[Ladybass0711]

There will be a news confrence at 2:30 EST on cnn to let everyone know the next move!

[mysteriew]

Texas doesn't have much choice. They will have to take it to the state Supreme court. And likely this one will end up in the federal Supreme Court which will take years to be heard.

[mollymalone]

Texas doesn't have much choice. They will have to take it to the state Supreme court. And likely this one will end up in the federal Supreme Court which will take years to be heard.And in the meantime, will the children continue in the system, with court hearings and reunification plans and all the rest of it?

[mysteriew]

And in the meantime, will the children continue in the system, with court hearings and reunification plans and all the rest of it?

I think so. The court can order them to release the children pending an appeal, but it isn't likely they will. Usually the appeal will halt any further changes until it is heard by the court. But they will have file within that 10 day period the appeals court gave them.

IE, Texas pulled the kids, the FLDS filed for an appeal and the kids remained in custody. Now the appeals court has given them 10 days to return the kids. If they file the appeal in those 10 days then everything goes on hold again. If they don't file within those 10 days, the kids will have to go back to parents and things will hold until it is heard farther up. At least that is my understanding of it.

[mollymalone]

I think so. The court can order them to release the children pending an appeal, but it isn't likely they will. Usually the appeal will halt any further changes until it is heard by the court. But they will have file within that 10 day period the appeals court gave them.

IE, Texas pulled the kids, the FLDS filed for an appeal and the kids remained in custody. Now the appeals court has given them 10 days to return the kids. If they file the appeal in those 10 days then everything goes on hold again. If they don't file within those 10 days, the kids will have to go back to parents and things will hold until it is heard farther up. At least that is my understanding of it.Thank you.

[Elphaba]

Per CPS' agreement, 12 of the children are being reunited with their families, but with restrictions: they can't go back to the ranch... they have to stay in the San Antonio area and be under state supervision.

[SewingDeb]

This is posted in the media thread but it also belongs here:

FLDS couple get a ruling against state

Tanner agreed to the stay, but issued the restraining order, which for now keeps Child Protective Services investigators from continuing their investigation.

“I am not going to allow CPS or any other agency to interfere with parents in this state,” the judge said.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA061008.1B.FLDShearing.3899a1c.html

[mollymalone]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700246257,00.html
A Texas judge has ordered the nation's largest child-custody case be severed into 234 individual cases, with separations based on biological mothers. Previously, 346 of the 440 children taken from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch were lumped into two large court cases. Texas 51st District Judge Barbara Walther issued the separation orders on Thursday in response to motions filed by the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services.

Crimmins noted the new alignment of cases, in sibling groups according to mother, has consistently been one of his agency's goals, and is standard practice in child protective cases. He said his agency has been able to accurately establish family relationships of most children and mothers who were removed from the ranch.

[yolorado]

Yeah and the FLDS and its sycophants seem to be yelping about it, which I don't get at all. Isn't that exactly what they wanted, separate families? Now that they've got 'em, they don't want 'em? Breaking these cases into mom groups seems sensible to me. Many of the fathers seems to have taken off. Among some of the men, there seems a general reluctance to be identified with specific women and children, so father groups could be impossible to do. What else is CPS supposed to do in checking for specific situations where children could be in danger? If you've got a mom with a lot of child brides already, you could reasonably argue that her other daughters will be in danger as well once they hit puberty. Hopefully, they'll go after those moms who took pictures at their 12 and 14 year olds weddings as they harbored a known fugitive. Seems like a pretty good case could be made for taking little kids away from those moms.

[mollymalone]

I suspect there might be some charges for some of the women as time goes on and the investigation picks up steam.

[yolorado]

mollym,
I sure hope so. I know thee women are raised in this society where they must obey and must submit and where men call the shots, but allowing your 12 year-old daughter to marry a 50+ man is beyond the pale, totally unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. Putting up with your husband marrying other women is bad enough, but when he marries children, not doing anything to stop it and to protect those young girls should get that woman convicted of child endangerment at the very least. Women who sew these children wedding dresses and wedding-night gowns, who take their wedding pictures, who welcome them as fellow bigamists and who witness their pregnancies and attend their births should have some serious legal 'splainin' to do. All of them. The more I read and hear about this organization, the more I hope that someone, somewhere can do something to break the horrid cycle of abuse that this organization inflicts upon its members, particularly innocent children.

[mollymalone]

I don't think anything will change the sect overnight. It's going to take years. We'll see what kind of investigations and charges occur over time.

[mysteriew]

Unfortunately, what I think will happen is that the FLDS will sell their holdings in Texas and will move it to a state where they are amendable to the the lifestyle.

[yolorado]

Unfortunately, what I think will happen is that the FLDS will sell their holdings in Texas and will move it to a state where they are amendable to the the lifestyle.

Why must they burden us with all this mess? I don't understand why they are still in the US. They reject our general society. They don't want to follow the laws of the land. Why not go to another country where polygamy is legal and accepted? Why not just go somewhere their lifestyle is not against the law?

[Ciara]

I think its because they wouldnt find anywhere else as profitable for them with all their Government contracts and also the welfare that they rake in.
I know thats not supposed to be the case in Texas with the welfare money but it certainly was in Arizona and Utah.

They have it too easy in America and thats why they wouldnt go anywhere else.

[SewingDeb]

I love realitycheck's comment after the article Molly Malone linked above. The poster gets right to the heart of the matter.

[mysteriew]

Why must they burden us with all this mess? I don't understand why they are still in the US. They reject our general society. They don't want to follow the laws of the land. Why not go to another country where polygamy is legal and accepted? Why not just go somewhere their lifestyle is not against the law?

As Ciara says a lot of it, probably most of it is the money. But also don't forget they were all born into this culture, their parents were in it, and their grandparents. And it has always been ignored. So they feel entitled to continue. But I also think there is some arrogance in it. Their leaders are thought of as almost Gods.... they allegedly speak with God and know his plans and have powers denied to the rest of us mere mortals (prophesy). So the leaders at least, and probably the membership also feel above law- after all they believe they will go to heaven where the rest of us heretics won't.