Possible Victims: Pennsylvania

[DeltaDawn]

Link and info supplied by NoDramaMamma:

quote:
There was a case of a missing man in the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton area last year who disappeared at the St Patrick's Day parade in Scranton. He was a student at the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia who came home for the weekend. His name was Matthew Grendel. He was found a couple months later floating in a body of water.

http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?s=6575761
:quote

[eve]

Link and info supplied by NoDramaMamma:

quote:
There was a case of a missing man in the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton area last year who disappeared at the St Patrick's Day parade in Scranton. He was a student at the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia who came home for the weekend. His name was Matthew Grendel. He was found a couple months later floating in a body of water.

http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?s=6575761
:quote

:( How many more are out there?

Eve

[DeltaDawn]

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18400902&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=6

Another article about Matthew Grendel.

[NoDramaMama]

When I saw the detectives on Good Morning America the other morning, they mentioned that a smiley face was found at a location in Pennsylvania. Does anyone know where this location was? I don't recall it being mentioned and cannot find anything online about the location.

[DeltaDawn]

When I saw the detectives on Good Morning America the other morning, they mentioned that a smiley face was found at a location in Pennsylvania. Does anyone know where this location was? I don't recall it being mentioned and cannot find anything online about the location.

I haven't been able to find anything either about the smiley faces in PA. I did hear the detective say two vics in PA with the faces on one of the broadcasts...I can't even find another vic yet in PA.

[SeriouslySearching]

Tommy Booth 24 yrs. Ridley Township, PA

Missing- 01/19/07
Found- Aprox. 02/10/07 drowned in Ridley Creek behind Bootleggers Bar.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6118869

[vermontn03]

dark_shadows and I have spoke with WPTZ news channel 5 for NY & VT. Please watch tomorrow night 5/6/08 @ 6pm, if you would like to know why we contacted them. We will answer any questions after the broadcast. We also contacted WPVI in PA pertaining to the link between the Thomas Booth & Nicholas Garza case.

[dark_shadows]

Dearest Vermontn03,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for posting that, it is very important.

So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

[vermontn03]

Dear dark_shadows, :blowkiss:
You are very welcome! I hope that people see this!!!

[Blink34]

Tommy Booth 24 yrs. Ridley Township, PA

Missing- 01/19/07
Found- Aprox. 02/10/07 drowned in Ridley Creek behind Bootleggers Bar.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6118869

SS- he went missing the morning hours (past midnight) so his Missing Date is 1/20/07. I have found in a few cases where the dates are reported incorrectly because it's "the evening of" scenario. I could not find a definitive "found date" though-

[cheko1]

Here is what KSTP had on the News tonight about Tommy Booth!

PA police find link in case to 'Smiley Face Killers' (http://kstp.com/article/stories/S434838.shtml?cat=1) http://kstp.com/kstpImages/cs/graphic_camcorder.gif (javascript:LaunchArticle('434838','179810','kstp. com','1','');)

[vermontn03]

The date has nothing to do at all with what we called about.

[Blink34]

Ver3- if that was directed at me, I was not suggesting the date had anything to do with why you called the detectives. I assumed that you probably were not at liberty to say or were choosing not to, which I respect.
The date for me, in Tony's case, is relevant, so I wanted to clarify it on the thread. I hope you get some answers soon:blowkiss:

[winteryns]

Here is a link to our local paper about the guy in PA.

http://www.delcotimes.com/WebApp/appmanager/JRC/Daily;jsessionid=JqnvLgvSyrf22Hq1cGQcgCDvtc62Rjh4B krX1bnBpj1p2xL8TSbj!1663208313?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pg_article&r21.pgpath=%2FDCT%2FHome&r21.content=%2FDCT%2FHome%2FTopStoryList_Story_200 1797

[dark_shadows]

WPTZ and FOX44(Vermont station) will be on with the story tonight at 6pm for WPTZ and 7pm for FOX44. Also WPVI in Philly has their investigative reporter on the story, that should be in the next couple of days.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[dark_shadows]

WPTZ just showed the photo that I had taken of the graffiti at the riverbank of Otter creek.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Indigator]

http://www.delcotimes.com/WebApp/appmanager/JRC/Daily?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pg_article&r21.pgpath=%2FDCT%2FHome&r21.content=%2FDCT%2FHome%2FTopStoryList_Story_200 1797 (http://www.delcotimes.com/WebApp/appmanager/JRC/Daily?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pg_article&r21.pgpath=%2FDCT%2FHome&r21.content=%2FDCT%2FHome%2FTopStoryList_Story_200 1797)

The Smiley face was found underneath the deck that is back of the bar.

[SuziQ]

WPTZ just showed the photo that I had taken of the graffiti at the riverbank of Otter creek.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

DS, I would love to see that. Do you have links? I've searched the stations you listed and I'm not seeing anything.

[dark_shadows]

DS, I would love to see that. Do you have links? I've searched the stations you listed and I'm not seeing anything.
Video of tonight with Nick's mother stating that she wlks the river looking for her son.It is so very heartbreaking. I am in the process of uploading the video of the graffiti, it was right after this video.
http://www.wptz.com/video/16179525/index.html
Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Blink34]

You know, I thought I was hardened a little by going through this, but to have your baby in a creek, knowingly, and to be unable to recover his body is simply more than any Mother should have to endure.

My heart and prayers to Mrs. Garza and her family, I cannot imagine and pray to God I never have to. I am here to help you get answers and justice.

[dark_shadows]

You know, I thought I was hardened a little by going through this, but to have your baby in a creek, knowingly, and to be unable to recover his body is simply more than any Mother should have to endure.

My heart and prayers to Mrs. Garza and her family, I cannot imagine and pray to God I never have to. I am here to help you get answers and justice.
Dearest Blink,:blowkiss:
I know the emotional toll that vermontn03 and I have been going through and our hearts hurt so very much. I cannot even imagine the pain that Natalie is going through.

So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

[SuziQ]

Video of tonight with Nick's mother stating that she wlks the river looking for her son.It is so very heartbreaking. I am in the process of uploading the video of the graffiti, it was right after this video.
http://www.wptz.com/video/16179525/index.html
Respectfully,
dark_shadows

It was very heartbreaking to watch this video. Having your baby out there and not be able to get to him. The area of the falls looks very treacherous. I hope someone with expertise can help Nicks family.

[Blink34]

It was very heartbreaking to watch this video. Having your baby out there and not be able to get to him. The area of the falls looks very treacherous. I hope someone with expertise can help Nicks family.

We are working on a few threads simultaneously so I wanted to be sure you got this- what is TES postion on this? I will make a call in a heartbeat if you need the request- please let me know.

Rest DS VE3 and Mrs. Garza, tomorrow is another day.:blowkiss:

[dark_shadows]

We are working on a few threads simultaneously so I wanted to be sure you got this- what is TES postion on this? I will make a call in a heartbeat if you need the request- please let me know.

Rest DS VE3 and Mrs. Garza, tomorrow is another day.:blowkiss:
Dearest Blink,:blowkiss:
Gary Peterson is a volunteer from Equusearch. He has already been here searching for Nick.
So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

[newshound81]

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080508_Smiley-face_murder_theory_considered_in_case_of_Delaware_ County_man_s_death.html

[luthersmama]

http://www.delcotimes.com/WebApp/appmanager/JRC/Daily?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pg_article&r21.pgpath=%2FDCT%2FHome&r21.content=%2FDCT%2FHome%2FContentTab_Feature_201 5919

[Blink34]

IMO, the other jurisdictions should take a page out of Det. Willoughby's playbook. He took the initiative and called Det Gannon and Duarte ON HIS OWN when seeing the story. Commendable.

[fran]

http://www.delcotimes.com/WebApp/appmanager/JRC/Daily?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pg_article&r21.pgpath=%2FDCT%2FHome&r21.content=%2FDCT%2FHome%2FContentTab_Feature_201 5919

Thanks for the link LM.

Very interesting AND mysterious. He had to go through quite a ways of a few feet of water to get to where he was discovered. PLUS, he would have had to go through quite a bit of underbrush etc to get there AND he wasn't familiar with the area so how did he get there?

Very disturbing, IMO.
fran

[cheko1]

Thanks for the link LM.

Very interesting AND mysterious. He had to go through quite a ways of a few feet of water to get to where he was discovered. PLUS, he would have had to go through quite a bit of underbrush etc to get there AND he wasn't familiar with the area so how did he get there?

Very disturbing, IMO.
fran

Totally crazy! He'd of never known there was a creek there.

[Indigator]

I know that area very well and the creek is not visible and if you didn't know the area, you wouldn't even suspect it was there. Agreed that in the winter it is not as brushy as the summer, but it is still a tangle of bushes-not something you would walk through. It is located perpindicular to a highway-not a big highway, but where a larger highway gets smaller and narrows to one lane. You could go down to the creek from the roadside and enter that way as well.

[DeltaDawn]

That poor Mom I would be wondering too, how he got to the creek, in the dark, traveling through 25 yards of woods and brush to tumble in the creek and drown in 1 foot of water?

That just is not making sense..nor is the fact he is not caught on tape leaving the bar, but can be seen going into the bar. Af ew other cases the men were not seen on video leaving the bar. How is that possible..pushed out a bathroom window. Or someone who works there says they need to reset the tape while the others hurry them out a back door?

[Blink34]

That poor Mom I would be wondering too, how he got to the creek, in the dark, traveling through 25 yards of woods and brush to tumble in the creek and drown in 1 foot of water?

That just is not making sense..nor is the fact he is not caught on tape leaving the bar, but can be seen going into the bar. Af ew other cases the men were not seen on video leaving the bar. How is that possible..pushed out a bathroom window. Or someone who works there says they need to reset the tape while the others hurry them out a back door?

Off the bat I can think of 2 other cases:

Justin Gaines and Brian Shaffer, video was available going in and inside the club, not on video leaving. Perhaps we should be checking into this as well. Problem is with most of the cases being classified as "accidental" there is no burden on an establishment to disclose that-

[SeriouslySearching]

Wasn't there something in the DP case where someone reset and "staged" a camera scene so an underaged person wasn't seen on video after the bar got busted?

[SuziQ]

Willoughby is a good cop. He's already checking this out before mom calls him.

The debris field before the creek, which is only two feet deep, is very suspicious. And what young man, especially if he's drunk, is going to head towards freezing water in January? I still stick by the thought that they would be on the hunt for a warm bed and a chica instead.

The fact that Tommy didn't get kicked out of the bar with his friends speaks volumes of his sobriety and critical thinking.

And IMO, someone is looking for exits with cameras.

[SuziQ]

Wasn't there something in the DP case where someone reset and "staged" a camera scene so an underaged person wasn't seen on video after the bar got busted?

I remember that, just not the details.

[vermontn03]

:woohoo:WOOOOOOT HERE WE GO GUYS, IT FINALLY MADE IT.

THE VIDEO OF TOMMY BOOTH AND NICHOLAS GARZA UPDATED 30 MINUTES AGO.

NOW PROBABLY THINGS WILL START HITTING THE FAN.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...cal&id=6131011 (http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6131011)

[Indigator]

I think I've uncovered another-EXACT MO
Anirban Majumdar:Missing November 2, 2001
"A body pulled from the Schuylkill River was officially identified yesterday as missing Engineering graduate student Anirban Majumdar, ending a two-week search for the 25-year-old native of Calcutta, India.
Authorities said that there were no immediate signs of foul play, and have not yet determined whether the death was a suicide or an accident..

http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2001/11/20/News/Missing.Grad.Student.Found.Dead-2159163.shtml

In addition to Anirban, we have the two men listed below. Since there are so many victims, I am going to concentrate on the Pennsylvania cases but will continue to monitor the other boards.
Matthew Grendel: Missing March 17, 2008
http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?s=6575761

Thomas Booth:Missing January 20, 2008
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080508_Smiley-face_murder_theory_considered_in_case_of_Delaware_ County_man_s_death.html

[Indigator]

Other articles from The Daily Pennsylvanian (University of Penn's student newspaper
http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2001/11/09/News/Engineering.Graduate.Student.Reported.Missing-2159291.shtml

http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2001/11/13/News/Police.Still.Searching.For.Missing.Student-2159348.shtml

http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2001/11/15/News/Police.Search.For.Leads.In.Case.Of.Missing.Student-2159373.shtml

http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2001/11/19/News/Body-Of.Missing.Grad.Student.Found.In.Schuylkill.River-2159124.shtml

[Indigator]

http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2001/11/21/News/Details.Of.Death.Still.Unknown-2159186.shtml

[Indigator]

David Dantzler Wolfe: Missing-December 10, 2002 Found in the Schuylkill River in May 2004.
http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2003/05/16/News/Missing.Students.Body.Reveals.No.Apparent.Foul.Pla y-2154578.shtml

[Blink34]

Willoughby is a good cop. He's already checking this out before mom calls him.

The debris field before the creek, which is only two feet deep, is very suspicious. And what young man, especially if he's drunk, is going to head towards freezing water in January? I still stick by the thought that they would be on the hunt for a warm bed and a chica instead.

The fact that Tommy didn't get kicked out of the bar with his friends speaks volumes of his sobriety and critical thinking.

And IMO, someone is looking for exits with cameras.

SQ- did you mean without cameras?

[Indigator]

It gets even more interesting

http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2003/02/11/Opinion/Drew-Armstrong.Penn.Police.And.The.Art.Of.The.Spin.Cycl e-2155521.shtml

[Blink34]

David Dantzler Wolfe: Missing-December 10, 2002 Found in the Schuylkill River in May 2004.
http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2003/05/16/News/Missing.Students.Body.Reveals.No.Apparent.Foul.Pla y-2154578.shtml

Can you find out anything about the scope of the investigation on him for videotaping the girl- allegedly?

[luthersmama]

That poor Mom I would be wondering too, how he got to the creek, in the dark, traveling through 25 yards of woods and brush to tumble in the creek and drown in 1 foot of water?

That just is not making sense..nor is the fact he is not caught on tape leaving the bar, but can be seen going into the bar. Af ew other cases the men were not seen on video leaving the bar. How is that possible..pushed out a bathroom window. Or someone who works there says they need to reset the tape while the others hurry them out a back door?


I had a thought about this that changes my view of who the kidnappers might be.

What if the assailants are white college kids? The police didn't see Booth leave the bar, but what if he was surrounded by a group of other guys and they put a hat on him or something and kind of kept him hidden from the camera?

This could work, and would suggest that it isn't "outsiders", but rather that the whole thing is some kind of sick initiation ritual or something. It wouldn't be the same killers in every case - instead it would be a "secret society" or something.

[Indigator]

More on Dantzler Wolfe
http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?id=5135

[Indigator]

Luthersmama-This story could point to your theory. This occured just last weekend and is less than 2 miles from the place that Tommy Booth disappeared. There was an arrest in this case and the man is a grad student at Temple University in Philadelphia.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6117371

[Indigator]

More on the student arrested for the abduction attempt
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/philadelphia/20080503_Temple_student_charged_with_kidnapping_tr y_1.html

[Blink34]

More on the student arrested for the abduction attempt
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/philadelphia/20080503_Temple_student_charged_with_kidnapping_tr y_1.html

Indi- great find- see what you can find out about the suspect, and why the name of the intended vic is not being released- that might be relevant.

[Indigator]

The suspect is a Dental student at Temple University with no affiliation with Swarthmore campus-no friends there etc. He pulled into an area of the college that is accessible to anyone and stopped the victim, who was leaving the library (it closes at 2AM) with the excuse of asking directions to the "presidents house". The student told him where the President lived-pointing to the general direction but the suspect then insisted that the victim get into the car and show him where to drive. The victim refused and then the suspect got out of the car, opened the passenger door and proceeded to grab the male victim and try to physicially force him into the car. The victim resisted and proceeded to get away and a second attempt was made by the suspect, this time the vcitim ran to the closest building, the Black Student Union and fortunately students were awake there and assisted the victim. Suspect fled at a high rate of speed and was later arrested. There is rumor that the suspect may have been on other college campus' that evening??

[Blink34]

Was there anything found on the suspect that could be used as some sort of "incapacitator" to the vic? ie: chloraform, GHB, etc..

Was there anything found at the scene, at the suspects house, or in the car that would indicate his intentions?

Has LE obtained or applied for any Search/seize warrants?

Do you know when his prelim is?

[Indigator]

Aside from the initial story, the media has been silent. Preliminary is June 2nd. I should follow up on that and attend that hearing. Everyone seems to be complacent, he was caught, it's all over. Why did it occur at all? No one seems to ask that.

[Blink34]

I have about had it with the very complacency you are referencing- Please do keep on it, I am traveling that day or I would attend as well-

28 year old dental students do not attempt to abduct 23 year old college men for no reason- wtf??

ETA: sorry for the rant, and may not be applicable in this particular case, but imo, this hush hush business puts others at risk, and definately has in some of these cases.

[luthersmama]

I had posted someplace or other about the Swarthmore abduction. Chaing doesn't look like he could single-handedly abduct anyone, which suggests to me that he is just a delusional nut.

However, when I read about the Booth case and realized how close that was to Swarthmore it made me wonder.

I'm going to be away for a few days, but if you remind me next week I'll follow up with a buddy who lives in Swarthmore and who knows the Chief of Police.

[SuziQ]

SQ- did you mean without cameras?

Or with cameras to avoid those doors. Either way. lol.

[Indigator]

Today in the local paper where Tom Booth disappeared-"A Widener University professor of law said graffiti recently found at the sight of a bizarre drowning indicates a theorized multi-state serial killer wants to be caught, but one Wallingford graffiti artist isn’t convinced there’s a local connection."
http://tinyurl.com/6ojkq9

[SeriouslySearching]

They are never robbed, but many of the victim’s cell phones are missing, as was Booth’s.

“That’s part of the signature,” said Reed. “The victim is a young white male, the victim doesn’t have any signs of robbery except the missing cell phone. So maybe you’re going to find a kind of (Wisconsin killer and cannibal) Jeff Dahmer out there who hangs up the cell phones of his victims on the wall with names and dates, or something like that.”

http://www.delcotimes.com/WebApp/appmanager/JRC/Daily;jsessionid=JLtvLmrd2vNdgVWhGNWkkqpkFPMmlGWTF g2g9WlcgwLgdzknJsTh!1620666705?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pg_article&r21.pgpath=%2FDCT%2FHome&r21.content=%2FDCT%2FHome%2FContentTab_Feature_203 0645

I found this even more interesting, In.

[SeriouslySearching]

I had posted someplace or other about the Swarthmore abduction. Chaing doesn't look like he could single-handedly abduct anyone, which suggests to me that he is just a delusional nut.

However, when I read about the Booth case and realized how close that was to Swarthmore it made me wonder.

I'm going to be away for a few days, but if you remind me next week I'll follow up with a buddy who lives in Swarthmore and who knows the Chief of Police.Thanks for checking that out. I find it curious myself.

[DeltaDawn]

Alrighty then..if what the detectives said was accurate for PA cases..we still do not definitely know who they are talking about. Matthew Grendel may be one of the cases..but we still don't know who the second case is in PA........

The detectives were not contacted about Tommy Booth until after the GMA telecast. Which means we are still in need of finding the second vic in PA..because there may be 3 in PA with the addition of Tommy Booth.

[Blink34]

Aside from the initial story, the media has been silent. Preliminary is June 2nd. I should follow up on that and attend that hearing. Everyone seems to be complacent, he was caught, it's all over. Why did it occur at all? No one seems to ask that.

Indi- if you are still planning on attenidng, can you please post following?
Has there been any new info?

[Blink34]

The suspect is a Dental student at Temple University with no affiliation with Swarthmore campus-no friends there etc. He pulled into an area of the college that is accessible to anyone and stopped the victim, who was leaving the library (it closes at 2AM) with the excuse of asking directions to the "presidents house". The student told him where the President lived-pointing to the general direction but the suspect then insisted that the victim get into the car and show him where to drive. The victim refused and then the suspect got out of the car, opened the passenger door and proceeded to grab the male victim and try to physicially force him into the car. The victim resisted and proceeded to get away and a second attempt was made by the suspect, this time the vcitim ran to the closest building, the Black Student Union and fortunately students were awake there and assisted the victim. Suspect fled at a high rate of speed and was later arrested. There is rumor that the suspect may have been on other college campus' that evening??

Indi- you have detailed info so I'm guessing you have an inside source. I note that as you posted he asked directions to the president's house. I don't know if it is relative or not, but the president of Swarthmore resigned 10 days after this incident?

video:
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=6C84B05FB55346380F74007327589EFC ?contentId=6449058&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

different article- neither of these posts have been updated since the arrest.


http://daily.swarthmore.edu/2008/05/02/man-charged-after-attempted-kidnapping/

[DeltaDawn]

Interesting..I do wonder why the president at Swathemore resigned? Anyone local have that info?

[winteryns]

He is resigning but not until next August. If it had anything to do with something funny the college would not keep him for another year. He is retiring. I think it is just a coincidence.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/18886524.html

[Peace261]

I had a thought about this that changes my view of who the kidnappers might be.

What if the assailants are white college kids? The police didn't see Booth leave the bar, but what if he was surrounded by a group of other guys and they put a hat on him or something and kind of kept him hidden from the camera?

This could work, and would suggest that it isn't "outsiders", but rather that the whole thing is some kind of sick initiation ritual or something. It wouldn't be the same killers in every case - instead it would be a "secret society" or something.

As in a possible "undergrown fraternity group" ... that may be occuring all over the country .... I mentioned this as a source to research ... regarding Nick Garza and others.

Peace.