What Is Your Theory?

[SeriouslySearching]

I think we should have a thread for people who have definite theories on these cases. Please tell us your theory and/or if you believe they were unfortunate accidents.

If we ever get to an end in all of this...it will be interesting to see what theories came the closest. We are never always right or always wrong...but I think it quite interesting to see thought processes along the way and in the end. :)

[porkchop]

I think these murders are being committed by a Manson Family type cult. I believe this groups started as a small group that moved around alot but as it grew it split into the midwest and east. I believe that these groups take pictures and may film these murders to share with the other groups over the internet. Thats why I believe that this case will be broken wide open when one of them takes their computer in for repair and a tech finds them or a parole oficer comes across them.
:crazy:

[Ethann]

They are spelling out Smiley face killer man with the first letters of the cities where they commit the crime and not all the victims are young males.I think they prefer young men that look like an easy target but it is not convenient for them to find a young man every time that looks like an easy victim.Either that or it is because they are a technician with trane that so many drownings were near tranes ST paul and LaCrosse factory.I also think both theories are possible or there may not just be one group of killers.someone that works as a technician could be doing some of the killings-my guess would be in the mid-west -and even more of the others are being done by some sort of gang or cult.

[Ethann]

I also think it is possible technicians are part of a cult or gang.when cfc was banned in 1996 it created a lot of work for hvac technicians.Some contractors would have had a desperate need for people and not enough trained people to do the work.They would have hired less than desirable applicants such as people that just got out of prison or possibly even mental institutions.minnesota alone trained hundreds of prisoners to do this kind of work starting in 1996.

[Ethann]

I also think they may be making a smiley face on the map if the dots are connected.my suspicion would be that Indianappolis cloumbus ohio,and lansing michigan form the nose in a v shape.the center of the bottom part of the mouth could be Cinncinatti and sT cloud the top left hand side of the mouth.eau claire wisconsin part of the left eye.sorry for so many posts but at this point i am open to many possibilites.lol

[ArizonaGiGi]

It is sick, depraved and sad!

[SheerLuck]

I think we should have a thread for people who have definite theories on these cases. Please tell us your theory and/or if you believe they were unfortunate accidents.

If we ever get to an end in all of this...it will be interesting to see what theories came the closest. We are never always right or always wrong...but I think it quite interesting to see thought processes along the way and in the end. :)

Wouldn't it be smarter if someone figures this out; to tell either the detectives or a police unit where a killing happened; as opposed to posting it here; which it might interfere with the investigation; if the killers were to read this? I'm sure I have the basics figured out and it answers the questions of location, time of year and why it is only drunk white males. But I think it would be very wrong to post if here and I'm not even sure if I'd want to tell the police. There's an angle that surprisingly no one has touched on yet

[Indigator]

I am just scratching the surface and have not read even an eighth of the information in these cases, but I have noted that several of these young men were rugby players. I would like to explore that further...

[Sherlock23]

What if there is a rogue, depraved group among the monks of St. Johns who like to target young men for unknown nefarious reasons? They cruise Highway 94 to the college towns in a van on certain nights. They look for young men of a certain physical type alone and vulnerable on the streets. Perhaps the driver is dressed as a priest and asks for directions or offers a ride. The good, church-going kids are very helpful and go along, other types refuse.

[scswimmom]

This is my first post, although I've been reading WS for years! I'm not into posting much, but I wanted to throw my "theory" into the mix. I think this is related to terrorism (Al-Queda, etc.). Here is why:

1. In my mind, they are the only group of people that are this organized, patient, and consistent.
2. Since 9/11, they've threatened to attack "the heartland" of America, our schools, and our school children.
3. There are more supposed terrorist "cells" in those areas of the U.S. where the drownings are occurring.
4. They would have a motive--they hate America, and these young men probably represent something to them.
5. Does anyone else see the similarities between these deaths and the deaths of the microbiologists over the years?? Or maybe it's just me...

Either way, is this a crazy idea (cause no one else has brought it up!) or could it be a possibility?

[SuziQ]

What if there is a rogue, depraved group among the monks of St. Johns who like to target young men for unknown nefarious reasons? They cruise Highway 94 to the college towns in a van on certain nights. They look for young men of a certain physical type alone and vulnerable on the streets. Perhaps the driver is dressed as a priest and asks for directions or offers a ride. The good, church-going kids are very helpful and go along, other types refuse.

Here is a link to The Order of Saint Benedict-Benedictine Retreat Centers. I know they are relocated and reasigned and sometimes that is because they are naughty boys.

http://www.osb.org/retreats/index.html

[Silver~Bell]

No offense to your A.Q. theory, but my money is on home-grown lunatics. But I think only a few of the 40 cases are the work of home-grown killers. The rest I think are accidents.

[SuziQ]

Either way, is this a crazy idea (cause no one else has brought it up!) or could it be a possibility?

Not any crazier than the theory that the detectives are floating. Oh and add revenge for waterboarding to your list. And we had a scientist maybe a microbioligist disappear from the airport near where I live.

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200604952S

[SuziQ]

Sherlock, expanding on nefarious reasons here. St Johns had a big big problem with sexual assaults, but in many cases it merely involved a monk masturbating on a victim. That would fit with no sign of sexual assault on the drownding vics. And any evidence would be washed away by water. So you have an environment of sexual abuse, they start getting busted for their activities, hands are slapped, some go to jail, neither of which is not about to stop their sexually deviant behavior. And as I found out the other day, they don't think the new rules and restrictions to prevent further sexual abuse applies to them as they were still seen all over campus with male students and one is spotted hanging out at a pub. We know deviant sexual behavior is not cured by a few rules. It would be highly doubtful that the monks were suddenly cured. The monks can't risk being caught with anymore victims, so they move to plan B. Commit their deviant acts and get rid of the vics

[Peculiar Petunia]

I think the LaCrosse and Eau Claire cases could be a single perp (or group). My theory is that the motive is jealousy. There are a lot of college students barely scraping by at state schools. When you get away from Madison, Milwaukee, and Green Bay, Wisconsin is a poor state. My guess is that a group of poor students--maybe on a second shift crew at someplace embarrassing to work for a student--lured the vics out of the bars and overpowered them, sending them into the river.
I think the rest of the cases are coincidences and are unlinked. The smiley faces don't look much alike. The red ones almost look painted by a brush, and the others look like they're done by kids who sneaked a can of paint out of their parents' garage and are daring and naughty. The placement by the crime scene is an accident. Easy access for murderers, clumsy people, and baby gangster wanna-bes alike.
Just my opinion.

[Blink34]

Wouldn't it be smarter if someone figures this out; to tell either the detectives or a police unit where a killing happened; as opposed to posting it here; which it might interfere with the investigation; if the killers were to read this? I'm sure I have the basics figured out and it answers the questions of location, time of year and why it is only drunk white males. But I think it would be very wrong to post if here and I'm not even sure if I'd want to tell the police. There's an angle that surprisingly no one has touched on yet

SL- your choice, but with a team from the FBI, national LE detective involvement, national media attention and a bevy of undisclosed info we are not privy to, I'd be shocked to hear something they have not considered and is plausible. (and don't forget our crackerjack team here at WS!!)

As a point of clarification, for the known linked cases, it is a misrepresentation to call all the vics "drunk"- That has been shown not to be the case in approx 60% so far.

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Scswimmom! I don't find it farfetched that terrorism either home-grown or associated to others could be a factor. This started long before 9/11, but so did their war on Americans.

[fran]

This particular case is NOT connected to those presently being studied, plus it's a female. The similarity is it's John Hopkins. But, I'm putting this here for study and ideas to show HOW easily it is to infiltrate the student campuses by someone who MAY have some jealousy towards the students. This guy was caught in 2005 and the 'mysterious drownings and disappearances' are still happening. So he can't be responsible. But............someone LIKE him could be.....or group! Oh, and he had also worked at a number of establishments frequented by students.

JMHO
fran

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-te.md.allen15apr15,1,1622536.story

<<<snip>>>

The well-dressed man could make friends across racial and social lines, his friends say. He had turned his life around after at least one suicide attempt and psychiatric hospitalization, and, to his supporters, it's not surprising that Allen could become a regular part of the Hopkins social scene, hanging out with largely white, privileged students who were years younger.

But Hopkins students and authorities view Allen as a smooth-talking man damaged by a fractured family life and frequent moves - including a juvenile detention stint at the Charles H. Hickey Jr. School - who romanced a naive Hopkins student and later killed one of her friends.



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-jhumurder,1,5463889.storygallery?coll=bal-home-headlines

<<<<links to a number of articles>>>>

[fran]

I don't necessarily have a theory, but here's MY list of possible people to LOOK at:

Someone who hangs around colleges, is NOT a college graduate but frequents and befriends a # of students

Someone who was denied a college education but MAY have been gifted as these students. Of course that would go along with previous suggestion.

Someone who has a ‘friend’ who died from college drinking (ie binge drinking) (trying to ‘save them’)

Someone who impersonates a policeman, they COULD have been trained as a ride a long, etc.

Someone who services bar’s equipment

Someone who owned a bar that was closed down because of say, binge drinking by college students (ie death)

Someone in a band that travels to the various venues
It has to be someone who frequents bars or the areas. Some victims picked up in the bar, some outside

Some cases COULD involve LE. Several of the victims had or in the past had, confrontation with LE, usually as a result of drinking. Those, PROBABLY, should be looked at on an individual basis by outside sources, imo.

Someone who’s in a band that travels

Someone who’s been a bouncer at more than one or two different bars in the various sites.

Someone who’s been a bartender at more than one or two different bars in the various sites.

It COULD be someone who’s either jealous of the accomplishments of these young men, the opportunity offered to these young men, the threat of harm facing these young men by being out drinking,

Just some rambling thoughts. :)

JMHO
fran

[scswimmom]

Welcome to WS, Scswimmom! I don't find it farfetched that terrorism either home-grown or associated to others could be a factor. This started long before 9/11, but so did their war on Americans.

Thanks for the welcome! It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out...

[Indigator]

Scswimmom-Not too far a stretch actually. I would only think they would have committed many more murders.

[MeoW333]

What if the killers are women who had been given the date rape drug and this is their revenge?

[eve]

What if the killers are women who had been given the date rape drug and this is their revenge?

The killers as women has occurred to me too, because of the lack of obvious violence to the bodies. Also as some have pointed out, a woman may be more able to lure these young men into a vehicle for example. It is conceivable that a woman or women are retaliating for being
"used" or perhaps "rejected" by this "type" of guy. Maybe "Smiley Evil Happy Man" refers to the victims instead of the killers, if that makes sense. That is what it was (smiley evil happy man) right? I'm not sure where to go back and find that!

Eve

[Peculiar Petunia]

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if women were involved. These men were not all that big. 5'10" is only a height average for American men. If you look around you in, say, a grocery store or even in your workplace, I bet you'll see a significant number of women taller, especially in Wisconsin or Minnesota.

[MeoW333]

Sometimes males refer to their male member as Mr Happy; maybe the metaphorical smiley face represents that in a metaphor? If the case then maybe the killers are metaphorically destroying men? A specific type of man, as most all the victims have appearance in common.

[ArizonaGiGi]

I definitely believe women are involved. I think it is much more plausable that women helped lure the victims. If it were a small group of women, say 2-5, and they were college aged looking, they would look like they belong and fit in and not look out of place therefore draw no attention from passersbys
.
We all know that the vast majority of serial killers are men but this may just be an all women group of serial killers. Eileen Waernos (sp) comes to mind (I know she worked alone) but I would not be surprised to learn that this is the work of 2+ "wronged" women bent on revenge. I still can't come up with any reasons for the region of the U.S. other than that is where they grew up and are from. duh

P.S. I think that the victims were drugged (ghb, rophy, ex) to the point of unconsiousness, and then slipped into the water.

[Littledeer]

When this all first broke, I thought it was so "out there" to think of gangs, etc.

But after reading more and more, and seeing about how Nick and Tom's case could be related.

My theory is most definately COMPUTER RELATED, IMO, it's a game that has been played for a while over the internet and where the people have gotten to know each other. It has turned into something more sinister/deadly. It's almost like, whoever loses the game that is being played, has to be the one that kills. Maybe that is why it is happening in different states??

My theory above is being simply put forward without all of the rest that I think.

[DeltaDawn]

That this is a cult that knows and uses gang symbols.. they are a renegade group.. part cult part gang.

[vtgirl]

Maybe a goth group or some other group of social misfits that has a problem with popular , "preppie", college boys

[MeoW333]

I wonder if and how many have known about the "smileys" graffiti before it was made public. If this is a group and they have followers or admirers, then possibly others may be doing the same type of graffiti. It is a simple thing, the smiley faces; it's not an intricate design of any sort that would be harder to replicate or draw.. I wish they would have picked some intricate design, so then at least we would know that it was a definite connection. So far the Sinsiniwa painted is what connected the smiley's and the locations of victims in proximity to a smiley.

A group of social misfits is possible as well, any group that may have been teased by athletes or preps in high school. Maybe even Juggalos (listeners of Insane Clown Posse). I would think that if there are more than one killer, they do have women in the group, so it is easier to lure the male victims.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think when the detectives release the other "names" found at the scenes, we will be able to move this investigation forward here.

[Ethann]

I have an idea for how victims may be drugged.It would not surprise me if the killer identifies closely with native cultures,so maybe a killer uses one of their methods for hunting,such as a poison dart.Within minuntes for instance toxin from a poison dart frog will cause paralysis

[MeoW333]

I have an idea for how victims may be drugged.It would not surprise me if the killer identifies closely with native cultures,so maybe a killer uses one of their methods for hunting,such as a poison dart.Within minuntes for instance toxin from a poison dart frog will cause paralysis

Poison Dart Frogs are native species of Central and South America. For the poison to be used from the frogs, either someone would have to be raising them here or importing their poison. They would also have to be skilled with a blow dart gun, as that would leave the smallest mark.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_dart_frog

"Dart frogs also do not synthesize their poisons. The alkaloids are sequestered from prey items, such as ants and mites. Because of this, captive bred animals do not contain significant levels of toxin. However, wild caught animals can maintain toxicity for some time, so appropriate care should be taken when handling such animals."

It also went on to say that levels of toxicity vary from one species to the next, so if the killers were using the toxins from poison arrow frogs, they would have to be experts on it... Very, very good experts.

[blaize]

If there is a possibility that all these deaths are connected then it probably makes sense to look at how young men and women in the same age group are using the internet.

Most have access to social networking sites and to services like twitter so maybe to think of any gang activity as being localized or the gang being all in one place or even to think of them as being 'organized' may be misleading.

This could turn out to be a challenge or dare type of activity that goes horribly wrong.

[Ethann]

If any one knows someone who would be knowledgable about certain subjects have them take a look at the names.There looks to be many patterns.school sports records for high schools and colleges.names of athletes with school records-not always the victim ,but same name-one was player of the year 3 years in a row with the same name as the victim-Horace jenkins.

many animal names

superman names-Langlois-Olsen-jessiah jameson in CLARKsville-Ross who was a childhood friend of superman-Walker-First Appearance: Superman/Batman #47

Some are names of killers
booth-shot lincoln........getz-killed on the subway

[Ethann]

- The Indiana State Police are requesting the assistance of the public in locating a missing person. Daniel Reaves, 25 was last seen on Saturday, May 3 in the Madison area. For the last couple of weeks Indiana State Police investigators have interviewed family members, friends, and acquaintances of Reaves and followed up on all leads but to no avail. Reaves is described as a white male, 5’11", approximately 145 pounds. He has dark brown hair, light blue eyes, and is clean shaven. He was last seen wearing a white T-shirt with long shorts and light brown shoes. http://ads.cluster01.oasis.zmh.zope.net/oasis/oasisi.php?s=1017&w=300&h=250&t=_top (http://ads.cluster01.oasis.zmh.zope.net/oasis/oasis/oasisc.php?s=1017&w=300&h=250&t=_top)
Reaves attended Indiana University Southeast in New Albany during the 2007 fall semester.

[Cherish]

I think that the perpetrators met while in college. A professor or an adult educated in forensics ,such as a police officer, may be involved. They may have discussed " the perfect crime" and went as far as to test it out. (it brings to mind the movie "Murder by Numbers") LaCrosse may be the place where they met each other. When they went home on holiday breaks,it is possible that a few of them continued to drown victims. It may explain the occurrences in Minnesota and New York and South Dakota. (SD where 8 homeless men were found drowned in creeks within 14 months of each other. It was stated that "Howard Pretends Eagle reported to police that he had been harassed by a carload of teen-age white males who tried to chase him down with their car." www.ishgooda.org/oglala/news5a.htm) It has been at least 11 years since this has begun. GHB makes it so easy to disorientate a victim with or without alcohol being present. The presence of alcohol just allows an assumption to be made that a drowning was accidental and not intended. Computers make it possible to keep visual contact with someone over long distances. They are dispersed but may keep in contact with the person who thought up the whole idea. They have become callused and may have included others to be a part of their criminal activities with no regard to the pain that they have inflicted upon their victims and their families.

[concentric]

I still think it could be Native American gangs.

http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources/native/native_001.htm

[OrdinaryLife]

No gang, one or perhaps two people. Live in the surrounding area and are very familiar with the goings on. Perhaps 5-ten years older. May have graduated from an area college themselves.

[concentric]

No gang, one or perhaps two people. Live in the surrounding area and are very familiar with the goings on. Perhaps 5-ten years older. May have graduated from an area college themselves.

I am now on board, and with Simplicity on the other thread--an ordinary and simple summation. Pondered if he (they) deliver beer to the establishments. It could be as simple as them asking for directions and they grab these guys.

[Simplicity]

I believe the killer of these young men is a long haul trucker. I also believe that he grew up in a dysfuntional, uneducated, unnurturing family. No love, just existance.

His intelligence is probably at a higher level than most. However, because of his background and low self esteem, he is killing these young men who are high achievers.

It appears to me that since he IS NOT capable of achieving his desires in life because of low self esteem, he is killing these young people who are achieving.

I believe he's bi-sexual, nice looking, charming, early thirties and is able to adapt in any situation because of his intelligence and ability to disguise himself intellectually. Probably a master in deception?

I don't believe he has formal education.

[Simplicity]

That's a good thought. Who knows?

[Cherish]

I do agree with much of what you stated. I just think it is so fishy how this person is able to abduct these young men without detection and knows that icy water will kill the men in minutes and not leave a trace of evidence. What's the draw? Committing the perfect crime, watching the victim drown, or stalking? I haven't really heard anything about sexual abuse of the victims. I don't know... maybe the water washes away any evidence of that too.

[OrdinaryLife]

Nearly everyone of these men were involved in sports. Basketball, football, hockey, soccer, baseball, wrestling and track. One retired from the military and another in looking into it. None of these men were "light weights" in terms of health and activity.

They were stalked. A person perhaps a little older, but not much. Possibly engages them in talking about sports/games. Learns were they go to school and what they do for extracurricular activities. Nearly all are last seen at some bar/pub. 99% are all during the academic year.

It could be a person that may not have a B.S/B.A. degree, but perhaps a guy that has gone to school many times over the years. Maybe an associates degree that he does nothing with.

All about power, control, and taking out someone to possibly feel empowered and better than the victim. To "feel" stronger than the victim.

IMHO

[concentric]

Like I said I'm on board with this trucker theory. The detectives did mention; however, that there seem to be several men being found at the same time in different states and that is why I think they believe it is some kind of gang activity because the locations are so far apart. It cannot yet unequivocally be stated that both men died and were placed in the river at the same time though.

I believe the detectives use the word gang in the loosest sense of the word, as in: two or more people.

Now I'm tending toward thinking that Sisinewa does not hold a cultural meaning in terms of these crimes--it is the location of another murder and that is it.

[MeoW333]

I think they just left "Sinsinewa" tagged so that LE would connect the murders and they could get some credit. All the victims have similar backgrounds; i do think women may be involved in some of the killings. These killers are very clean; no knives, guns involved. They don't want to deal with any extra mess that could identify them. I don't think it's Native American gangs or any other known organized gangs. Most likely a cult type of satanists and or a group similar to the movie "fight club" in which they kill instead.

[Rudolf]

I think they just left "Sinsinewa" tagged so that LE would connect the murders and they could get some credit. All the victims have similar backgrounds; i do think women may be involved in some of the killings. These killers are very clean; no knives, guns involved. They don't want to deal with any extra mess that could identify them. I don't think it's Native American gangs or any other known organized gangs. Most likely a cult type of satanists and or a group similar to the movie "fight club" in which they kill instead.
I agree with you on that. I like the fight club analogy,too. There are too many deaths to have just one person, or even two people responsible. And geographically it would be exhausting to cover that much territory. The trouble with that, though, is the larger the group you get, the more difficult it becomes to keep everyone quiet.
Does anyone know if the deaths in the Upper Midwest have stopped? I haven't heard much lately and I was wondering if things became too obvious for any more activity.

[Cherish]

Okay, I am rethinking my theory. I do believe there are multiple people involved, some of which are educated in forensics or police sciences. I would hope the authorities are investigating the bartenders as possible people who are involved. Many victims go back to retrieve their coats from the bar or are found to have left the bar without their jackets during winter months.( are the bartenders "holding" their jackets behind the bar for them) I noted that quite a few victims have also been noted to have been last seen talking to two girls before they went missing (but I do realize this is common in a bar ... just something to keep note of).

Here's maybe a scenario: The bartender marks a victim by offering to hold the persons jacket behind the bar. The others begin the routine. Make conversation , find out who he is with, where he is from,how he got there. Later the bartender drugs the victim and the (possibly two girls) head him off at the bathroom. Escort him out the back door to the awaiting van where others take care of the rest.

In another instance maybe the girls, or boys are in attendance of a college party and they mark the victim by taking his coat . (Nick Garza did not have his coat with him when he left his friends dorm to walk back to his own dorm) It would be easy to slip something into his drink, and others just wait outside until someone incoherent and without a jacket walks outside. "Hey you need a ride? It's freezing out here and I could drop you off at your dorm." They may even impersonate security patrol men... police officers or taxi drivers .

[Cherish]

I double checked and Nichoas Garza's winter coat was in his dorm room,so he didn't have it with him at all when he went missing.

[fran]

I agree with you on that. I like the fight club analogy,too. There are too many deaths to have just one person, or even two people responsible. And geographically it would be exhausting to cover that much territory. The trouble with that, though, is the larger the group you get, the more difficult it becomes to keep everyone quiet.
Does anyone know if the deaths in the Upper Midwest have stopped? I haven't heard much lately and I was wondering if things became too obvious for any more activity.

There's quite often no new cases between May and September. Things should start picking up here in a month to six weeks, judging from recent years. :(

JMHO
fran

[Rudolf]

My theory is that these killings are done by people who have made it their vocation, with their real job being secondary. They move into a targeted town, get a job on campus or in a bar, blend-in, maybe take a class, pick victims, and then begin their real work. When school is out, they leave with the general population of students. It would answer the question of why so many students died in the same area, yet have disappeared across the country too. It would answer the question about what they did for a living, (unless they are independently wealthy!). It's how they hide, because they have no personal ties to the victim. They live like all the other students, except for this one thing. And because of the mobility of students, being new in town isn't questioned. I think they might have some tie to the bars, either bartender, server, musician, some sort of service person. Although, who knows about that part, maybe just a friendly regular customer(s). And they keep in touch by computer. I think the way a lot of you seem to think, that its just some anonymous friendly guy. Maybe he sets it up and when the victim is targeted, he calls for a secondary team that comes in to "help".

[kline]

I definately think its a group.
Very probably some splinter group of the Process or some other like inspired cult.

[Blink34]

I definately think its a group.
Very probably some splinter group of the Process or some other like inspired cult.
Agreed, but maybe more than 1 group, and with an element of "fringe"

[kline]

Agreed, but maybe more than 1 group, and with an element of "fringe"
I couldnt agree more. I think your right on the money.
As with the Sam group they dont have to be card carrying members of some order.
They could be a fraternity of very eclectic sickos drawing from a variety of bent philosophies but Id bet the Process is somewhere in the recipe.
Porno production and drugs will also be in the mix no doubt.

[sylviesays]

I found a very interesting site (a conspiracy forum). There is a theory on this board that the killer (or killers) could be a technician with TRANE.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message542174/pg1

According to this site (a lot of posts, but I've read through them all!), people have suggested that the killings are taking place in many areas where Trane is known to have training facilities. The person is abducted and perhaps driven around in a van. The technicians have use of R-22 refrigerant, which wouldn't be out of place for their job.. and could be used to knock people out (and if/when found, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of foul play). Also, check out the HVAC they use.. it has a smiley face on it. http://www.refcoswiss.com/nordamerika/kapitel/vacuumpumpen_e.htm (maybe somehow they're sucking the breath out of victims).

There is another theory mentioned in the same thread, which is about a cult killing people.. using women to lure the men away from their friends. The women either drug them - as in many cases in Latin America, where this type of this is actually taking place-or give them over to the actual killer(s).

[sylviesays]

Some other information, which I posted on the conspiracy forum..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/27/italy.internationalcrime

The case of the California man who was drugged while on vacation in Italy, and was hit by a train... The detective being interviewed said this is a huge problem in Europe, Latin America, the Philippines.. There is a gang in Mexico (I think they said "Las Coterras")- prostitutes luring men, giving them sleeping pills, or things like Ativan, so they can steal their things. They might be knocked out for a short period of time.. sometimes days. But the men are often "accidentally" given lethal doses (by the women).

"Gangs using narcotic spray to carry out train robberies are also on the rise in Italy, police said. The gangs board sleeper trains and drug passengers in couchettes before hopping off at stations with valuables."

[MeoW333]

Ativan is a benzo that is used to treat anxiety. However with people's chemistry varying by the individual, it may knock some out, especially if combined with other chemicals/alchohol.
There are so many drugs/chemicals that could be potentially be used for these murders.
Whatever the group is who is responsible for the killings, they are using some kind of control over their members, as they all keep mum about it. It's either brainwashing (which i would think hard to do with members outside of a compound or isolated setting) or some form of blackmail so that the members are scared to speak about the murders.

[Cherish]

It's possible they may have a death pact.