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Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 01:47 PM
His middle name is Stephen, not Steven.


I'm not sure the name means that much after all it is his real middle name. I have known quite a few people who went by their middle name. My husband is even one of them. So was my father.

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 01:51 PM
OK, after some sleep I came back to say that it has not been verified FOR CERTAIN that Nicholas is hornysteven07. I don't know why the person SadlyMistaken corresponded with would lie and say that she knew him but what the heck.

At this point, I don't know what it will take to verify that Nicholas is hornysteven07. I mean really, who can we trust to give us correct information? Some folks at Cheri's Corner contacted Cloud 9 and the bartender said he remembered Nicholas being there..can we trust that information??

I just don't know anymore.....:confused:

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 01:51 PM
He actually took a personality test. It is posted on his profile. Here is what it says.


hornysteven07 has an Extraverted iNtuitive Feeling Perceiver (ENFP) personality commonly referred to as "The Social Philosopher" - Find out your personality type (http://adultfriendfinder.com/p/personality.cgi?m=138228833_82313&take=1&mid=98860676_40444&show=1). ENFP General http://graphics.pop6.com/images/ffadult/personality/social_enfp.gif You believe life is abundant, love is plentiful, and creativity is always within your grasp. If God combined the bouncing energy of a cocker spaniel with the enthusiasm of a couple on their honeymoon, God would still be only halfway to duplicating your insatiable zest for life.
ENFP when in love “Puppy love” is a good term for describing your take on romance: fun, frisky, playful, cuddly, and young at heart. No matter what your age or how many times your heart has been broken, you are an eternal optimist when it comes to love. You are not someone who proceeds cautiously when you meet someone you find attractive. You are likely to fall passionately in love - or at least lust - quickly, spontaneously, and with total abandon. Holding something back for later is a concept you can’t quite grasp, especially when it comes to the joy of creating a new and exciting relationship. Yes, COMMITMENT can scare you. That one word may explain why you are still single at thirty, forty, fifty, or beyond. But you love, absolutely love, the concept of intimacy, sharing, and relationships. If only you could find that special one, you would be set for life.
ENFP where to meet Where can you meet a Social Philosopher? Social Philosophers enjoy stimulating conversation and interesting people, and, like the Idealistic Philosopher and Mystic Writer, favor activities that revolve around psychology, philosophy, the arts, and helping others. Unlike Idealistic Philosophers and Mystic Writers, Social Philosophers seize every opportunity for social contact. They love the spotlight and are known to be excellent teachers and public speakers. Social Philosophers also routinely attend art gallery openings, wine tastings, fund-raisers, concerts, lectures, and plays. They may also be members of The Single Gourmet - a dining club for singles with sophisticated tastes.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 01:54 PM
OK, after some sleep I came back to say that it has not been verified FOR CERTAIN that Nicholas is hornysteven07. I don't know why the person SadlyMistaken corresponded with would lie and say that she knew him but what the heck.

At this point, I don't know what it will take to verify that Nicholas is hornysteven07. I mean really, who can we trust to give us correct information? Some folks at Cheri's Corner contacted Cloud 9 and the bartender said he remembered Nicholas being there..can we trust that information??

I just don't know anymore.....:confused:
I would like a little more confirmation too. Especially from the Kent group. None have read yet tho. One did read and looked at my profile (which is empty) but didn't respond back. :waitasec:

SoManyQuestions
05-10-2008, 02:02 PM
I wonder what the IRL places thought his name was.

If he was a member of Wet Spot they would probably know the real him. Since it isn't you just sitting behind a computer screen and making up a nic. You actually have to sign up and everything. Is that true?
From what I read on the Wet Spot web site you have to show real id to join or go there as a guest but you could use a different name to be known by. So the membership list would have his real name (but could only be gotten with a warrant with a good reason) but other members could have known him by another name.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 02:11 PM
From what I read on the Wet Spot web site you have to show real id to join or go there as a guest but you could use a different name to be known by. So the membership list would have his real name (but could only be gotten with a warrant with a good reason) but other members could have known him by another name.
Would people say that they new him or not if you went there and asked?

Have there been any missing posters put up around there.

I have to go look again where it is in Seattle but I doubt there was any.

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 02:20 PM
I was just thinking Miss Behavin.. if he goes by the name Steven then that is what people are going to know him as. It doesn't make sense to me that he would then decide to leave with one of these people. They don't even know him by his real name and probably know nothing about his real life.

If he was lying to someone that got very attached to "Steven" and thought that they had something special with "Steven" and then they somehow stumbled upon the truth. Maybe they were pressuring him to do something different or if they were mad enough.. do something to him. It took awhile to find the AFF site so if they were a member and a friend, there is no way of knowing if they deleted their profile.

Long shot.. I know. I just don't see him up and leaving EVERYTHING. Nobody knew the real him as far as we can find. We have the people on AFF. They knew that part of him. We have Christine, his family and friends and they knew another part of him. I just can't see why he would walk away from everything when he obviously had the best of both worlds.

I believe Nicholas was able to compartmentalize his life. He was able to be the loving husband, playful father, and productive worker when in that setting; and a carefree Don Juan with an insatiable appetite when in a setting that allowed that part of him to be exposed.

It does sound to me like he wanted to have the best of both worlds; unfortunately, I don't believe anyone is capable of burning the candle at both ends like that for an extended period of time. Eventually, it comes full circle and a person crashes. I imagine it to be an exhausting way to live; keeping secrets like that, not only emotionally, but mentally.

Perhaps Nicholas needed to get away and clear his head so that he could come back at some point and be the husband and father he vowed to be. Maybe not. Maybe he liked living the alternative lifestyle so much and was in so deep that the addiction took over and he decided on a whim he didn't want responsibility anymore and ran off with a woman he met online. Maybe not. Perhaps he did meet up with a group on the 13th to try something new and things got out of hand; or maybe, like you said - somebody wanted more and felt betrayed because he wasn't who they thought he was either.

That is what is so frustrating! We just don't know, but finding out this information should make it all the more imperative that he be found.

SoManyQuestions
05-10-2008, 02:23 PM
Would people say that they new him or not if you went there and asked?

Have there been any missing posters put up around there.

I have to go look again where it is in Seattle but I doubt there was any.
Unlikely anyone would admit to knowing him. Also unlikely they would allow the poster to be put up inside. There are people there from all walks of life and many wouldn't want others to know they go. Don't know if anyone has put up posters outside though.

I tried making a post in a group in LJ saying he might have been a member and had anyone seen him and got chastised for "outing a long time member"

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 02:30 PM
Unlikely anyone would admit to knowing him. Also unlikely they would allow the poster to be put up inside. There are people there from all walks of life and many wouldn't want others to know they go. Don't know if anyone has put up posters outside though.

I tried making a post in a group in LJ saying he might have been a member and had anyone seen him and got chastised for "outing a long time member"
LJ?

And they said he was a long time member or in general you were chastised for implying that you would do that?

LionRun
05-10-2008, 02:38 PM
I don't think that horneysteven07 being Nicholas has actually been verified. The word verified indicates that it is fact. I think it would be more accurate to say that the woman stated that she thought the man she corresponded with was Nicholas.

SadlyMistaken did an excellent job, but I think we need to follow this through if we are to have a chance at determining if it is fact that what the woman said was true and accurate.

There may be a few out there who would lie in order to be considered a special part of a big investigation. I am not saying this is true or that I have any reason to think that is true in this case. I am only saying that it happens. A person can also be genuinely mistaken. I think that we need to find out more about why she believes hs is Nicholas.

Perhaps before contacting her again we can put our heads together and think of key questions to ask her to further indicate that her initial response was correct or not. We might want to leave it up to one person to be the contact in order not have several folks contact and possibly overwhelm her.

StealthTheory
05-10-2008, 02:39 PM
Unlikely anyone would admit to knowing him. Also unlikely they would allow the poster to be put up inside. There are people there from all walks of life and many wouldn't want others to know they go. Don't know if anyone has put up posters outside though.

I tried making a post in a group in LJ saying he might have been a member and had anyone seen him and got chastised for "outing a long time member"

Jeezus and WTF! He's a missing man! If nothing horrible happened to him and wants to be left alone all he has to do is contact LE and that will be that. Would you mind sharing the LJ group name? I have an account on LiveJournal too. I guess the AFF groups are feeling the heat because of Jeremy Scully's case too. I don't care what they do, but if a member goes missing they have to expect some attention.

SoManyQuestions
05-10-2008, 02:43 PM
LJ?

And they said he was a long time member or in general you were chastised for implying that you would do that?
Live journal.

Never decided if they were saying for sure he was a member or if they though I was outing him, but I had said there was reason to believe he might have been a member for a couple of years and someone came back with it isn't cool to "out a long time member" so did he think a couple of years was a long time member or did he know him as a long time member? btw yes the guy who answered did say he was a member.

Everything with this seems to point to a reason to leave if he did meet someone but he left into a group that can be very secretive at times. So frustrating.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 02:50 PM
I don't think that horneysteven07 being Nicholas has actually been verified. The word verified indicates that it is fact. I think it would be more accurate to say that the woman stated that she thought the man she corresponded with was Nicholas.

SadlyMistaken did an excellent job, but I think we need to follow this through if we are to have a chance at determining if it is fact that what the woman said was true and accurate.

There may be a few out there who would lie in order to be considered a special part of a big investigation. I am not saying this is true or that I have any reason to think that is true in this case. I am only saying that it happens. A person can also be genuinely mistaken. I think that we need to find out more about why she believes hs is Nicholas.

Perhaps before contacting her again we can put our heads together and think of key questions to ask her to further indicate that her initial response was correct or not. We might want to leave it up to one person to be the contact in order not have several folks contact and possibly overwhelm her.

I feel the same way LionRun. I have thought about it a little more tho and I would think that she would have said that she never saw what he looked like or something like that if she didn't know. The way that emails work there is that you can post 3 pictures with them. They show up when you open the email. So, she had to be looking at the pics to read the email. I just think she would have said.. yeah I have talked to him but have no idea what he looks like or if that was him. I did follow up with her and ask again if she thought the pics were of him and told her if she remembered anything from their conversations that stood out to please let me or the KCSO know. Haven't heard back yet. She seems to check hers at night.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 03:03 PM
I feel the same way LionRun. I have thought about it a little more tho and I would think that she would have said that she never saw what he looked like or something like that if she didn't know. The way that emails work there is that you can post 3 pictures with them. They show up when you open the email. So, she had to be looking at the pics to read the email. I just think she would have said.. yeah I have talked to him but have no idea what he looks like or if that was him. I did follow up with her and ask again if she thought the pics were of him and told her if she remembered anything from their conversations that stood out to please let me or the KCSO know. Haven't heard back yet. She seems to check hers at night.

Perhaps we can come with key questions to ask her first and then contact her again. I am wary of contacting people too often because sometimes they become overwhelmed at stop the communication. I am hoping to prevent that by saving up key questions that we as a group can come up with to further indicate if hs is Nicholas.

For example, did she see him in person and in what capacity? Did she still have a copy of pics that he may have sent her, and if so can she send them to you. How long ago did she last have contact with hs? Did he indicate that he wanted to get together or did they just chat? Did he talk about his interests and hobbies, and if so what were they?

There may be other questions that would be better to ask. Do you or do any others here have any ideas? I believe that asking specific questions rather than general ones may get us further. This is just my opinion, FWIW.

SM, thank you so much for going the distance and contacting people that might have known hs and possibly Nicholas! I am so glad that you are working on this.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 03:08 PM
I was just reading on a blog left by katinkent's husband that the owner of Cloud 9 is "hanging out and/or drinking with us quite often". If that is true then the owner of that bar would probably know Nicholas by looking at his picture. I wonder if Cheri has heard back from him. And.. if he is that close to the group.. would he call them and let them know? Could that be why there is no response from them yet when the guy she talked to yesterday seemed so eager to help?

Cheri_G
05-10-2008, 03:47 PM
OK, after some sleep I came back to say that it has not been verified FOR CERTAIN that Nicholas is hornysteven07. I don't know why the person SadlyMistaken corresponded with would lie and say that she knew him but what the heck.

At this point, I don't know what it will take to verify that Nicholas is hornysteven07. I mean really, who can we trust to give us correct information? Some folks at Cheri's Corner contacted Cloud 9 and the bartender said he remembered Nicholas being there..can we trust that information??

I just don't know anymore.....:confused:

That was based on a written description. The person corresponding the the bartender has since sent him pictures of Nick as well as the new flyer because he said he'd print and hang a few. As far as I know, he hasn't replied about whether he still thinks he has seen Nick there based on the pictures.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 03:54 PM
That was based on a written description. The person corresponding the the bartender has since sent him pictures of Nick as well as the new flyer because he said he'd print and hang a few. As far as I know, he hasn't replied about whether he still thinks he has seen Nick there based on the pictures.


Thank you, Cheri:).

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 03:59 PM
Perhaps we can come with key questions to ask her first and then contact her again. I am wary of contacting people too often because sometimes they become overwhelmed at stop the communication. I am hoping to prevent that by saving up key questions that we as a group can come up with to further indicate if hs is Nicholas.

For example, did she see him in person and in what capacity? Did she still have a copy of pics that he may have sent her, and if so can she send them to you. How long ago did she last have contact with hs? Did he indicate that he wanted to get together or did they just chat? Did he talk about his interests and hobbies, and if so what were they?

There may be other questions that would be better to ask. Do you or do any others here have any ideas? I believe that asking specific questions rather than general ones may get us further. This is just my opinion, FWIW.

SM, thank you so much for going the distance and contacting people that might have known hs and possibly Nicholas! I am so glad that you are working on this.

Good idea. Hopefully we can come up with just a few that encompasses everything so that I don't overwhelm her and she stops talking to me.

I did get a couple more responses but they both said that they hadn't met him, seen a picture of him.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 04:13 PM
Good idea. Hopefully we can come up with just a few that encompasses everything so that I don't overwhelm her and she stops talking to me.

I did get a couple more responses but they both said that they hadn't met him, seen a picture of him.

I think we can, but it might be good for some of us who have been working on this to share our thoughts on what questions would be the best to ask. We also don't want to ask too many questions because tends to make people feel overwhelmed and not reply sometimes.

Please clarify what you meant in the highlighted part of your post that I quoted. Did you mean that neither of two other people that replied saw a picture of Nicholas? Or did you mean that they did see a picture of him? And, if either or both did see a picture of him was it a picture that hs sent to them? Or was it a picture that you sent them or that they saw in the media?

Thanks so much, and please bear with my anal retentive questions. I am very much a stickler for details and facts, which can at times be a pain in the butoosky for some:).

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 04:35 PM
I think we can, but it might be good for some of us who have been working on this to share our thoughts on what questions would be the best to ask. We also don't want to ask too many questions because tends to make people feel overwhelmed and not reply sometimes.

Please clarify what you meant in the highlighted part of your post that I quoted. Did you mean that neither of two other people that replied saw a picture of Nicholas? Or did you mean that they did see a picture of him? And, if either or both did see a picture of him was it a picture that hs sent to them? Or was it a picture that you sent them or that they saw in the media?

Thanks so much, and please bear with my anal retentive questions. I am very much a stickler for details and facts, which can at times be a pain in the butoosky for some:).

LOL No problem. I think it was the way I worded it. Sometimes my brain goes faster than my fingers do and I miss a word or two.. or three.

I sent them the same emails that I sent the others.. with the pictures in them. Neither of them have ever seen him (pic or real life) so they can't verify whether it was him or not.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 04:56 PM
LOL No problem. I think it was the way I worded it. Sometimes my brain goes faster than my fingers do and I miss a word or two.. or three.

I sent them the same emails that I sent the others.. with the pictures in them. Neither of them have ever seen him (pic or real life) so they can't verify whether it was him or not.

I understand what you mean about your brain working faster than your fingers--that happens with me often!

Again, just to be clear did the woman who stated that hs is Nicholas say that she had been sent pics by hs or saw them on his profile and then was able to ID him once you sent her the pics of Nicholas? Did she state that they met in person? Or did she not mention whether or not she met him in person?

This was taken from post #200.

That is what she said. I sent an email with 2 pictures attached of him and asked if they knew if that was the "steven" on their friends list.

She said..

"OMG Yeah I have chatted with him a few times but I haven't seen him in forever! I hope he is ok....."

MysteryAddict
05-10-2008, 06:22 PM
Do we know when the profile of horneysteven07 was done?
It just boggles the mind to think it could be Nicholas. Time????

On the one side, we have our picture of Nicholas Francisco, the good Christian family man, husband of Christine, Father of two beautiful children and Art Director at Publicis Advertising Co., well spoken of by his friends and co-workers alike. A person of good repute for all of his 28 yrs of life-until he went missing on Feb.13,2008. He literally vanished into thin air.

When we asked, what were we told-- Oh Nick was a good family man, he went home to his family every night!

Now computer research links him with another name- horneysteven07 whose profile surely fits in a lot of ways and sadly we are told that Nick was leading a "secret life"
So the question has become is horneysteven07- Nicholas Francisco?

Even having been told by Le that Nick was leading some kind of a "secret life", this kind of thing is still hard for us to accept. To think that Nicholas somehow for 28 yrs. was able to hide such a side of his personality is surprising.

Come on people, there are only so many hours in a week.

He had to work 40 of them, he runs 3 times a week, pampers Christine, gets the kids
breakfast etc, goes home most nights after work when does he have free time
(several times a week) open for these other activities? Sure beats me!

Did Nick say this?--

"I'd like to find someone who just wants a **** buddy to meet several times a week for hot fun."
Huh, several times a week?

Maybe there's a point where he puts on his cape and becomes super Nick! What a guy!

SoManyQuestions
05-10-2008, 06:49 PM
Do we know when the profile of horneysteven07 was done?
It just boggles the mind to think it could be Nicholas. Time????

On the one side, we have our picture of Nicholas Francisco, the good Christian family man, husband of Christine, Father of two beautiful children and Art Director at Publicis Advertising Co., well spoken of by his friends and co-workers alike. A person of good repute for all of his 28 yrs of life-until he went missing on Feb.13,2008. He literally vanished into thin air.

When we asked, what were we told-- Oh Nick was a good family man, he went home to his family every night!

Now computer research links him with another name- horneysteven07 whose profile surely fits in a lot of ways and sadly we are told that Nick was leading a "secret life"
So the question has become is horneysteven07- Nicholas Francisco?

Even having been told by Le that Nick was leading some kind of a "secret life", this kind of thing is still hard for us to accept. To think that Nicholas somehow for 28 yrs. was able to hide such a side of his personality is surprising.

Come on people, there are only so many hours in a week.

He had to work 40 of them, he runs 3 times a week, pampers Christine, gets the kids
breakfast etc, goes home most nights after work when does he have free time
(several times a week) open for these other activities? Sure beats me!

Did Nick say this?--

"I'd like to find someone who just wants a **** buddy to meet several times a week for hot fun."
Huh, several times a week?

Maybe there's a point where he puts on his cape and becomes super Nick! What a guy!
Sadly not all that rare in the world. Look at all the politicians and religious leaders who get caught in similar things all the time. If that many busy public figures can do it why not a 28 year old?

ETA Also it has been said that where he worked was very relaxed about him taking a long lunch and/or leaving early.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 06:51 PM
Do we know when the profile of horneysteven07 was done?
It just boggles the mind to think it could be Nicholas. Time????

On the one side, we have our picture of Nicholas Francisco, the good Christian family man, husband of Christine, Father of two beautiful children and Art Director at Publicis Advertising Co., well spoken of by his friends and co-workers alike. A person of good repute for all of his 28 yrs of life-until he went missing on Feb.13,2008. He literally vanished into thin air.

When we asked, what were we told-- Oh Nick was a good family man, he went home to his family every night!

Now computer research links him with another name- horneysteven07 whose profile surely fits in a lot of ways and sadly we are told that Nick was leading a "secret life"
So the question has become is horneysteven07- Nicholas Francisco?

Even having been told by Le that Nick was leading some kind of a "secret life", this kind of thing is still hard for us to accept. To think that Nicholas somehow for 28 yrs. was able to hide such a side of his personality is surprising.

Come on people, there are only so many hours in a week.

He had to work 40 of them, he runs 3 times a week, pampers Christine, gets the kids
breakfast etc, goes home most nights after work when does he have free time
(several times a week) open for these other activities? Sure beats me!

Did Nick say this?--

"I'd like to find someone who just wants a **** buddy to meet several times a week for hot fun."
Huh, several times a week?

Maybe there's a point where he puts on his cape and becomes super Nick! What a guy!

Great post, MysteryAddict! We don't yet know factually that hs is linked to Nicholas unless we consider the reply to our diligent member, SadlyMistaken to be fact. I can't do that. I need to know more and know that that woman was accurate in her recollections/identification and was truthful in her reply. I think there is a possibility that it is true, but I need more for me to consider it fact.

I have gone back and forth with the, "When would he have time; all of his time was accounted for." question. It may be that he mostly chatted/posted while at work or when alone at home. It may be that he only got together rarely in rl if at all. That he could probably find time for and not make his wife think anything suspicious was happening.

Mygirlsadie
05-10-2008, 06:53 PM
The thing is that he didn't need alot of time. He wasn't wineing and dineing these women. It was for sex.. get in do your business and go home. There was no relationship..

Salem
05-10-2008, 06:59 PM
Lion - reading your last para in Post 274 - makes me wonder. If Nick never had time to meet other in RL, then what the heck is Christine so mad about. If Nick was just messing around on line chatting, flirting, and whatnot, but never acted on it, why is she so mad? I think if it was my hubby, I would be mad, but not so mad that I would stop looking for him or file for divorce and if I stopped to think about it and realized that he was right here at home with me, I would probably cut him a lot of slack, unless he was treating me badly at home. From all I have read, it sounds like things were going okay at home (except Nick disappeared) and the two of them were obviously still having a private life as evidenced by C's pregnancy.

I think there is more to this story..........

Salem

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 07:04 PM
This is from KatinKent, the lady in charge of the meet and greets at Cloud 9 on Thursday nights. I had sent her an email on the Plentyoffish.com website:

My email to KatinKent:



Original Message YOU sent on 5/9/2008 1:03:54 PM I was hoping you could help me out. Nicholas Francisco has been missing since 2/13/2008. Law enforcement believe the key to finding him is through the internet. I found a listing for "hornysteven07" that I believe is Nicholas Francisco (he may have used the name "Steven" on various sites. Could you verify for me if "hornysteven07" is Nicholas. I would also like to know if you had your meet & greet on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 instead of on Thursday because Thursday was Valentines Day.

Thank you for any help you may be able to give me,

lookingfornich

katinKent replies



Im not sure if your the same person who emailed me on aff but yes.. Nicholas did go by Steven or rather Horneysteven07 ..

The meet and greet I host with my husband has always been on Thursdays. Even Thanksgiving Thursday.. Im sorry .. but no there was no meet on the 13th of feb. that I am aware of.

Again. I really do hope you find Nicholas safe.. His family is beautiful, and again.. Seemed like a really nice guy.

Kat

Busylady
05-10-2008, 07:05 PM
I just can't wrap my mind around Nicholas having the time to go out and meet people for this purpose. His co-worker has said he pretty much stayed in for lunch, his twitter account talks about him working saturdays, I can see no reason to lie on his twitter account to his co-workers. Christine has said he was never late getting home from work etc. It just doesnt seem to fit unless co-workers and Christine are all lying about Nicks habits, and I just don't think thats the case.

SoManyQuestions
05-10-2008, 07:21 PM
We can talk about if he had time and who thinks he never went out to lunch (wouldn't have to be every day just a couple times a week) and so forth but we know that Christine is angry enough to divorce him even though he treated her very good and is pregnant. To me this says that it was more then a couple of chats. We still don't know all of what was found to have been paid for out of the secret paypal account.

We do know that if this secret life is the one that was found it is totally possible that either he did decide to leave with someone and is still out there alive or that he may have met with misadventure meeting with someone.

I tend to think he took off with someone because of the Valentines day, the car being moved around and the fact that Christine had just gotten pregnant for the 3rd time.

This really is a good clue as to what may have happened. Now it is trying to figure out where a 28 year old who likes to party and run might be going for fun now that he is free to do what ever he wants or he and a new partner want.

MysteryAddict
05-10-2008, 07:26 PM
I just can't wrap my mind around Nicholas having the time to go out and meet people for this purpose. His co-worker has said he pretty much stayed in for lunch, his twitter account talks about him working saturdays, I can see no reason to lie on his twitter account to his co-workers. Christine has said he was never late getting home from work etc. It just doesnt seem to fit unless co-workers and Christine are all lying about Nicks habits, and I just don't think thats the case.

I didn't want to believe it either, but I don't think this women has any reason to lie!

"Again. I really do hope you find Nicholas safe.. His family is beautiful, and again.. Seemed like a really nice guy."

Sounds like she knew him from those Thursday night meetings!

LionRun
05-10-2008, 07:31 PM
Lion - reading your last para in Post 274 - makes me wonder. If Nick never had time to meet other in RL, then what the heck is Christine so mad about. If Nick was just messing around on line chatting, flirting, and whatnot, but never acted on it, why is she so mad? I think if it was my hubby, I would be mad, but not so mad that I would stop looking for him or file for divorce and if I stopped to think about it and realized that he was right here at home with me, I would probably cut him a lot of slack, unless he was treating me badly at home. From all I have read, it sounds like things were going okay at home (except Nick disappeared) and the two of them were obviously still having a private life as evidenced by C's pregnancy.

I think there is more to this story..........

Salem

I can understand that some women, especially a devout Cristian who's particular faith considers porn or alternate lifestyles a sin or transgression or a woman with traditional values might feel deeply hurt if their husbands chatted on sex/swinger sites. Some women have come to accept porn and/or sex swinger sites or even get into it themselves.

We also don't know if Christine is working behind the scenes with LE. I think she is. I think that she may have been advised by LE for reasons that we don't know not to divulge info about this any further concerning Nicholas's secret life.

She may be getting a divorce, but I don't know that for sure. It may have something to do with her being hurt by what she now knows, it could be best for her, her two children, and her unborn baby to get a divorce. She may still love Nicholas and want very much to find him, but no longer believes that a marriage would work. We don't know.

It may be that a time or two when Christine thought he was working and would come home right after work that he was actually at a meeting with a member(s) from a sex/swinger site. We just don't know.

I think it is possible that Nicholas may have had a deep internal conflict within himself. On the one hand he was perhaps a wonderful, loving husband and father with deep convictions. On the other hand he may have had alternative desires or even an addiction to sex that was fulfilled only through exploring and possibly getting involved with members on sex/swinger sites. Only Nicholas would or would have known if what I am saying has any basis in truth.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 07:36 PM
This is from KatinKent, the lady in charge of the meet and greets at Cloud 9 on Thursday nights. I had sent her an email on the Plentyoffish.com website:

My email to KatinKent:


katinKent replies

Thank you RKnowley:). This combined with what SadlyMistaken received pushes me in the direction that Nicholas might be hs.

Do we know if LE has checked this out as a possibility? Should we let the Sgt. know what we have possibly uncovered just in case they don't yet know about this? I haven't been the contact person in this case, and there has been sooooo much info here. Please forgive me if I have no idea what I'm saying:).

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 07:37 PM
I think that Nicholas' work hours could have been a little strange. I think he could take long lunches and also have time away from the job. IMO, he also may have told Christine he had a meeting, etc. when he actually didn't..JMO


I just can't wrap my mind around Nicholas having the time to go out and meet people for this purpose. His co-worker has said he pretty much stayed in for lunch, his twitter account talks about him working saturdays, I can see no reason to lie on his twitter account to his co-workers. Christine has said he was never late getting home from work etc. It just doesnt seem to fit unless co-workers and Christine are all lying about Nicks habits, and I just don't think thats the case.

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 07:41 PM
I think Harlett is going to turn over whatever information was found about Nicholas' AFF information to LE. At least that was my understanding. Harlett has had hs07's information since the 5th and was just trying to confirm if indeed hs07 was Nicholas. I could email Harlett to make sure she is going to do that. You think I should?

----


Thank you RKnowley:). This combined with what SadlyMistaken received pushes me in the direction that Nicholas might be hs.

Do we know if LE has checked this out as a possibility? Should we let the Sgt. know what we have possibly uncovered just in case they don't yet know about this? I haven't been the contact person in this case, and there has been sooooo much info here. Please forgive me if I have no idea what I'm saying:).

LionRun
05-10-2008, 07:46 PM
I think Harlett is going to turn over whatever information was found about Nicholas' AFF information to LE. At least that was my understanding. Harlett has had hs07's information since the 5th and was just trying to confirm if indeed hs07 was Nicholas. I could email Harlett to make sure she is going to do that. You think I should?

----

At this point I would, RKnowley.

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 07:46 PM
Thank you Lion, I will do that now.


At this point I would, RKnowley.

HarlettOhara
05-10-2008, 07:50 PM
I think Harlett is going to turn over whatever information was found about Nicholas' AFF information to LE. At least that was my understanding. Harlett has had hs07's information since the 5th and was just trying to confirm if indeed hs07 was Nicholas. I could email Harlett to make sure she is going to do that. You think I should?

----

You don't have to email me, I just got here a bit ago and was reading:blowkiss:

LE was waiting for a list to be put together of what has been found. I put one together last night of everything found so far and sent it to Christine. I'll add what you have found today and then I will send it off to the Sgt in a few minutes.

Y'all have done a wonderful job of sleuthing out this information. :clap:

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 07:51 PM
Oooops, didn't see you here and I did email you, lol! Sorry about that.

a bit ago and was reading:blowkiss:

LE was waiting for a list to be put together of what has been found. I put one together last night of everything found so far and sent it to Christine. I'll add what you have found today and then I will send it off to the Sgt in a few minutes.

Y'all have done a wonderful job of sleuthing out this information. :clap:[/quote]

HarlettOhara
05-10-2008, 07:52 PM
LOL.. no problem.. I hadn't logged in yet until I saw your post :)

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 07:54 PM
OK, then I don't feel so bad now, rofl :)


LOL.. no problem.. I hadn't logged in yet until I saw your post :)

MysteryAddict
05-10-2008, 07:58 PM
Hi, I see you are here. had these question saved up.

I have some question I would love to have presented to HarlttOHara if someone could do that..

1. Is it a fact that NF withdrew money from an ATM Feb 13th at 6:13PM?
Does she know the location of the ATM? or have an idea why the location would be withheld?
Was there a video of NF making the withdrawal?
If so why was it not shown to the public?
2.Does she know if NF was a member of the Wet Spot Club?
3.Det. Holland did not answer her question of whether the neighbors were questioned the
night NF went missing. Does she know why?

I appreciate any wisdom she can supply in this quest for answers.

HarlettOhara
05-10-2008, 08:06 PM
Hi, I see you are here. had these question saved up.

I have some question I would love to have presented to HarlttOHara if someone could do that..

1. Is it a fact that NF withdrew money from an ATM Feb 13th at 6:13PM?
Does she know the location of the ATM? or have an idea why the location would be withheld?
Was there a video of NF making the withdrawal?
If so why was it not shown to the public?
2.Does she know if NF was a member of the Wet Spot Club?
3.Det. Holland did not answer her question of whether the neighbors were questioned the
night NF went missing. Does she know why?

I appreciate any wisdom she can supply in this quest for answers.

It is a fact Nicholas withdrew money... I do not know the location or any other information pertaining to the withdrawl, other than the time and amount. They are keeping a lot of information quiet and have asked Christine to not make any public statements about things.

We believe that Nicholas did visit the WetSpot, but they are very careful to not give out any information on any members there. They keep things very confidential.. There was an event on 2/13 at the WetSpot that began at 6pm.

To be honest, I can't remember if Christine said anything about the neighbors or not.. I do know Members of Mars Hill, fellow employees and family members were interviewed.

StealthTheory
05-10-2008, 08:12 PM
I think we also need to consider that Christine may now be privy to messages Nicholas sent and recieved . I've had men try to flirt with me while married, and their not so slick way of doing it was talking about how unhappy they were in their homelife as a twisted way to flatter another woman. If she read things like that, or fantasies about him running off with someone else, I can totally 100% understand why she'd want to wash her hands of him.

MysteryAddict
05-10-2008, 08:13 PM
It is a fact Nicholas withdrew money... I do not know the location or any other information pertaining to the withdrawl, other than the time and amount. They are keeping a lot of information quiet and have asked Christine to not make any public statements about things.

We believe that Nicholas did visit the WetSpot, but they are very careful to not give out any information on any members there. They keep things very confidential.. There was an event on 2/13 at the WetSpot that began at 6pm.

To be honest, I can't remember if Christine said anything about the neighbors or not.. I do know Members of Mars Hill, fellow employees and family members were interviewed.

Thanks so much for your answers. I've always wondered if Nick may have gone to
that club after work, even wondered if they have an ATM there and that could be
why no picture or video of it. Just an idea.

Thanks again.

StealthTheory
05-10-2008, 08:15 PM
It is a fact Nicholas withdrew money... I do not know the location or any other information pertaining to the withdrawl, other than the time and amount. They are keeping a lot of information quiet and have asked Christine to not make any public statements about things.

We believe that Nicholas did visit the WetSpot, but they are very careful to not give out any information on any members there. They keep things very confidential.. There was an event on 2/13 at the WetSpot that began at 6pm.

To be honest, I can't remember if Christine said anything about the neighbors or not.. I do know Members of Mars Hill, fellow employees and family members were interviewed.

Hey Harlett,
Did you ever receive my email about the visit logged to my site and the IP address? I sent it to LE too, but didn't recieve a reply from either of you and I would just like to make sure that info is passed on to them. It could be nothing, but I'd hate it to get lost in the shuffle of info.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 08:18 PM
It is a fact Nicholas withdrew money... I do not know the location or any other information pertaining to the withdrawl, other than the time and amount. They are keeping a lot of information quiet and have asked Christine to not make any public statements about things.

We believe that Nicholas did visit the WetSpot, but they are very careful to not give out any information on any members there. They keep things very confidential.. There was an event on 2/13 at the WetSpot that began at 6pm.

To be honest, I can't remember if Christine said anything about the neighbors or not.. I do know Members of Mars Hill, fellow employees and family members were interviewed.

Thank you for the clarification, Harlett. If The Wet Spot had an event that began at 6PM on 2/13, the night that Nicholas disappeared I would be interested in learning if Nicholas stopped by or was supposed to stop by there. It may be nothing, but it may be something.

It is somewhat frustrating that the members there don't release info about their members, yet I understand why they would have that policy. Perhaps LE has been able to find out or will be able to find out more than we can. At least I hope so.

HarlettOhara
05-10-2008, 08:19 PM
Hey Harlett,
Did you ever receive my email about the visit logged to my site and the IP address? I sent it to LE too, but didn't recieve a reply from either of you and I would just like to make sure that info is passed on to them. It could be nothing, but I'd hate it to get lost in the shuffle of info.


Did you check your junk mail? I sent you an email on 5/7 and then I saw your post last night.. so I forwarded the previous one I sent to you again last night. I did add that information to the list for LE.

HarlettOhara
05-10-2008, 08:21 PM
Thank you for the clarification, Harlett. If The Wet Spot had an event that began at 6PM on 2/13, the night that Nicholas disappeared I would be interested in learning if Nicholas stopped by or was supposed to stop by there. It may be nothing, but it may be something.

It is somewhat frustrating that the members there don't release info about their members, yet I understand why they would have that policy. Perhaps LE has been able to find out or will be able to find out more than we can. At least I hope so.

I have added all that to the list also, along with the Wet Spot's director's name, phone and email addy.. maybe they can get more information. For all they knew I could have been someone's spouse making up a story just trying to get info.

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 08:23 PM
So, if I am understanding all of this correctly, it has now been 100% confirmed that Nicholas is hornysteven07?

And, the information obtained from that AFF profile as well as email correspondence some here have had with other AFF members will now be forwarded to LE so they can investigate Nicholas' disappearance further?

T-Rex
05-10-2008, 08:24 PM
Hmmm, so that's two votes for HS being Nicholas.
If he was that active, and experimental, on the side, then was living a pretty conflicted life.

HarlettOhara
05-10-2008, 08:29 PM
So, if I am understanding all of this correctly, it has now been 100% confirmed that Nicholas is hornysteven07?

And, the information obtained from that AFF profile as well as email correspondence some here have had with other AFF members will now be forwarded to LE so they can investigate Nicholas' disappearance further?

All of the info has been forwarded to LE... I just sent the email out.

MysteryAddict
05-10-2008, 08:38 PM
If Nick's disappearance has anything to do with this "secret life" of his, I think it's more likely to be connected to the Wet Spot than to his connections with the AFF Thursday night group.

The club is a three minute drive from work. If they have an ATM that would make a lot of sense why he would use his secret pay pal account card and also why LE would not show the picture or video of the place he withdrew the money!

Whatever happened after that nobody knows but we know his car ended up at the condos in Federal Way. Maybe he went home with somebody, went to sleep and the next thing he knew LE was after him?

LionRun
05-10-2008, 08:39 PM
So, if I am understanding all of this correctly, it has now been 100% confirmed that Nicholas is hornysteven07?

And, the information obtained from that AFF profile as well as email correspondence some here have had with other AFF members will now be forwarded to LE so they can investigate Nicholas' disappearance further?

I'm not 100% convinced that hs is Nicholas, yet. Then again I am a facts monger. I am leaning a bit more towards it being more likely than not, though.

SeattleGuy
05-10-2008, 08:40 PM
Harlett - I wanted to say welcome to WS, I'm glad you joined here as this is the only board that I belong to and I joined just for this case. Thank you for all you have done.

Here are a few things that I'd like to ask you to see if you are able to answer:

1) Is it possible that NF may have 'confessed' his sins to Mars Hill, and they may have been pressuring him to talk to CF about it? Could that be why they left the church 2 days prior to his disappearance? If not, is there anything more you can elaborate on regarding their departure from MH? If so, then I suppose MH can't really relay this info to LE since it's not crime related?

2) Wouldn't LE be privy to all NF's online activities? I'm surprised anyone here would be presenting this info to them for the first time. I've read about COFFEE technology my Microsoft that is a thumb drive which can be plugged into any computer he may have had access to, and gives LE access to history and passwords etc. Maybe KC doesn't use this?

That's about it for now, I am sure I will think of more questions after I post this.

T-Rex
05-10-2008, 08:41 PM
LE was waiting for a list to be put together of what has been found. I put one together last night of everything found so far and sent it to Christine.

That's pretty tough info for anyone to get.

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 08:48 PM
I'm not 100% convinced that hs is Nicholas, yet. Then again I am a facts monger. I am leaning a bit more towards it being more likely than not, though.

Thanks, LionRun. With two people confirming photos of Nicholas, I tend to believe they are one in the same. I applaud your investigative efforts in coming across the HS07 profile. I'm glad you're a facts monger - it keeps the rest of us from jumping to conclusions ... LOL :)

StealthTheory
05-10-2008, 08:49 PM
Did you check your junk mail? I sent you an email on 5/7 and then I saw your post last night.. so I forwarded the previous one I sent to you again last night. I did add that information to the list for LE.

Thanks, and yes, I've checked my spam filters and haven't seen any replies from you. Strange!

HarlettOhara
05-10-2008, 08:50 PM
Harlett - I wanted to say welcome to WS, I'm glad you joined here as this is the only board that I belong to and I joined just for this case. Thank you for all you have done.

Here are a few things that I'd like to ask you to see if you are able to answer:

1) Is it possible that NF may have 'confessed' his sins to Mars Hill, and they may have been pressuring him to talk to CF about it? Could that be why they left the church 2 days prior to his disappearance? If not, is there anything more you can elaborate on regarding their departure from MH? If so, then I suppose MH can't really relay this info to LE since it's not crime related?

2) Wouldn't LE be privy to all NF's online activities? I'm surprised anyone here would be presenting this info to them for the first time. I've read about COFFEE technology my Microsoft that is a thumb drive which can be plugged into any computer he may have had access to, and gives LE access to history and passwords etc. Maybe KC doesn't use this?

That's about it for now, I am sure I will think of more questions after I post this.




Thank you SeattleGuy

I don't know anything about Mars Hill other than they resigned. Christine and I have never talked about why.

This is just my opinion, but I think LE is probably limited as to how much time they spend on a MP case when there are no signs of foul play. I don't really see them searching the adult sites like what has been done here. I think they are at a point where they will follow up on leads they do get on the case.

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 08:56 PM
If Nick's disappearance has anything to do with this "secret life" of his, I think it's more likely to be connected to the Wet Spot than to his connections with the AFF Thursday night group.

The club is a three minute drive from work. If they have an ATM that would make a lot of sense why he would use his secret pay pal account card and also why LE would not show the picture or video of the place he withdrew the money!

Whatever happened after that nobody knows but we know his car ended up at the condos in Federal Way. Maybe he went home with somebody, went to sleep and the next thing he knew LE was after him?

And I was one of those people who laughed at Silver Dove and shook my head every time she suggested Nicholas may have been going to that place. I guess nothing would surprise me at this point!

HarlettOhara
05-10-2008, 09:04 PM
And I was one of those people who laughed at Silver Dove and shook my head every time she suggested Nicholas may have been going to that place. I guess nothing would surprise me at this point!

Being that she lives there Silver Dove was one of the people that helped get me information on the Wet Spot by talking to some people that go there. They would not confirm if Nicholas was/is a member there. It's against their policy.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 09:05 PM
Thank you SeattleGuy

I don't know anything about Mars Hill other than they resigned. Christine and I have never talked about why.

This is just my opinion, but I think LE is probably limited as to how much time they spend on a MP case when there are no signs of foul play. I don't really see them searching the adult sites like what has been done here. I think they are at a point where they will follow up on leads they do get on the case.

I have the same opnion, and I understand why they need to do that. If LE put in more time than they already do to investigate MP cases where there is no evidence of foul play we would need more investigators all over the nation. They don't have the funds, time or manpower to do that. I believe they would if they could in some cases, including Nicholas's.

This is why it is a good idea to research as we are, stay organized and save up and send questions/possible leads to LE at intervals. This is how we may be able to truly help.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 09:05 PM
So, if I am understanding all of this correctly, it has now been 100% confirmed that Nicholas is hornysteven07?

And, the information obtained from that AFF profile as well as email correspondence some here have had with other AFF members will now be forwarded to LE so they can investigate Nicholas' disappearance further?

She also replied on AFF to me the same thing that she told RW. That it was him and he did go by Steven.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 09:09 PM
And I was one of those people who laughed at Silver Dove and shook my head every time she suggested Nicholas may have been going to that place. I guess nothing would surprise me at this point!

Miss Behavin.. I saw a license plate today and thought of you. It was MZ BHVN. LOL You don't live here in WA right?

I drove down the condos again today and walked around the park. The first time I went.. the place creeped me out and today same thing. This time I actually got out and walked around. Took some pictures. It is not exactly a lake... more like a swamp.. very dense woods all around with a dirt/gravel trail that goes around it.

HarlettOhara
05-10-2008, 09:11 PM
Being that she lives there Silver Dove was one of the people that helped get me information on the Wet Spot by talking to some people that go there. They would not confirm if Nicholas was/is a member there. It's against their policy.

I'm quoting myself.. I just went and found the email I was looking for..

When SilverDove asked the question about Nicholas being a member of the WetSpot this is the answer she got from the person she was asking.


No, you don't understand, it's not cool to "out" someone as a long-time member of the Wet Spot. I could give a **** if anyone else knows about me but I care about others being "outed" without their consent.


My question is was she saying Nicholas was a long-time member there and she didn't want to out him.. or was that just a general answer applying to anyone..

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 09:11 PM
Being that she lives there Silver Dove was one of the people that helped get me information on the Wet Spot by talking to some people that go there. They would not confirm if Nicholas was/is a member there. It's against their policy.

Yeah, I forgot she does live around there. I understand why people would want their privacy; I suppose they pay top dollar for the discretion of the staff as well.

At the time, the idea just seemed so far-fetched to me, but that was before stevenspazz and HS07 was known.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 09:11 PM
Being that she lives there Silver Dove was one of the people that helped get me information on the Wet Spot by talking to some people that go there. They would not confirm if Nicholas was/is a member there. It's against their policy.

Harlett.. I think I may have freaked out Christine's neighbor. I actually went by there place.. on my way down to FW. I slowed down and turned around cause I missed it and the neighbor was outside taking down my license plate. Not sure if I should expect a knock on the door soon or what. Don't blame them given the circumstances, I guess but man she was out there QUICK.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 09:12 PM
I have added all that to the list also, along with the Wet Spot's director's name, phone and email addy.. maybe they can get more information. For all they knew I could have been someone's spouse making up a story just trying to get info.

Good point, Harlett. Thank you for sending in this round of info/possible leads in:).

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 09:15 PM
Miss Behavin.. I saw a license plate today and thought of you. It was MZ BHVN. LOL You don't live here in WA right?

I drove down the condos again today and walked around the park. The first time I went.. the place creeped me out and today same thing. This time I actually got out and walked around. Took some pictures. It is not exactly a lake... more like a swamp.. very dense woods all around with a dirt/gravel trail that goes around it.

Oh... how cute, SM...LOL! No, I live in Ohio, but I may get a special plate next time around! :)

I didn't realize you lived in the area. You went to the Condos in Federal Way? I still wonder about the person/people that moved out of there shortly after NF's disappearance...

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 09:20 PM
I'm quoting myself.. I just went and found the email I was looking for..

When SilverDove asked the question about Nicholas being a member of the WetSpot this is the answer she got from the person she was asking.


No, you don't understand, it's not cool to "out" someone as a long-time member of the Wet Spot. I could give a **** if anyone else knows about me but I care about others being "outed" without their consent.


My question is was she saying Nicholas was a long-time member there and she didn't want to out him.. or was that just a general answer applying to anyone..


Thanks, Harlett. I'm glad you had some locals helping you out. That response to me sounds like it was geared toward a specific person, but then it's hard to say since it's a general rule not to "out" anyone. I certainly hope LE has better luck getting someone to talk.

Do you know, was there activity on NF's secret paypal account for the Wet Spot? Is that where the initial interest stems from? Or, was it something else?

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 09:21 PM
Oh... how cute, SM...LOL! No, I live in Ohio, but I may get a special plate next time around! :)

I didn't realize you lived in the area. You went to the Condos in Federal Way? I still wonder about the person/people that moved out of there shortly after NF's disappearance...

Yeah.. I went down there. Not sure why. Still think that someone there knows something but I didn't really see anything today. Was hoping that I would pull in and there he would be.. but no. Just seems like such a strange place and this time when I was there.. even more so then last. There was a reason why the car was there. There are LOTS of apts around that area and surrounding area and for it to be there... just seems significant to me. If someone was trying to dump it then it would have been in one of the complexes off of the main road. This one is off the main road a mile and then in the middle of a bunch of other complexes. Just seems strange to me.

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 09:27 PM
Yeah.. I went down there. Not sure why. Still think that someone there knows something but I didn't really see anything today. Was hoping that I would pull in and there he would be.. but no. Just seems like such a strange place and this time when I was there.. even more so then last. There was a reason why the car was there. There are LOTS of apts around that area and surrounding area and for it to be there... just seems significant to me. If someone was trying to dump it then it would have been in one of the complexes off of the main road. This one is off the main road a mile and then in the middle of a bunch of other complexes. Just seems strange to me.

Yes, I agree. It seems very strange. IIRC, there were reports that NF's car had been parked there in different spots before someone recognized it and called LE. Unfortunately, nobody remembered seeing NF.

HarlettOhara
05-10-2008, 09:30 PM
Thanks, Harlett. I'm glad you had some locals helping you out. That response to me sounds like it was geared toward a specific person, but then it's hard to say since it's a general rule not to "out" anyone. I certainly hope LE has better luck getting someone to talk.

Do you know, was there activity on NF's secret paypal account for the Wet Spot? Is that where the initial interest stems from? Or, was it something else?

As far as I know, no there wasn't anything for the wetspot. The initial interest came when it was discovered about his other life and the Wet Spot being so close to where he worked it was the first place to be checked out. I have always wondered when he said to a co-worker "I'm going up there" if he meant the Wet Spot.. it would have been in the direction he was going.


Yeah.. I went down there. Not sure why. Still think that someone there knows something but I didn't really see anything today. Was hoping that I would pull in and there he would be.. but no. Just seems like such a strange place and this time when I was there.. even more so then last. There was a reason why the car was there. There are LOTS of apts around that area and surrounding area and for it to be there... just seems significant to me. If someone was trying to dump it then it would have been in one of the complexes off of the main road. This one is off the main road a mile and then in the middle of a bunch of other complexes. Just seems strange to me.

That complex is about 60% Asian residents also.. SilverDove went there and another person that works with us that lives in Seattle went there. Both came away with the same feeling as you did. When questions were asked I know Frannie got the feeling that some knew something and wouldn't talk. They would either say "I don't know anything" or "I don't want to get involved"..

T-Rex
05-10-2008, 09:38 PM
SadlyMistaken--you walked around Panther Lake? How deep is it? I'd love to hear as much as you can tell about the area! Did it feel creepy in a certain way? I.e. drugs, gangs, prostitution, people watching you...? Thanks!

goldtooth
05-10-2008, 09:57 PM
Would Panther lake be the kind of place you think a body could have been put and never found??





Miss Behavin.. I saw a license plate today and thought of you. It was MZ BHVN. LOL You don't live here in WA right?

I drove down the condos again today and walked around the park. The first time I went.. the place creeped me out and today same thing. This time I actually got out and walked around. Took some pictures. It is not exactly a lake... more like a swamp.. very dense woods all around with a dirt/gravel trail that goes around it.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 10:00 PM
SadlyMistaken--you walked around Panther Lake? How deep is it? I'd love to hear as much as you can tell about the area! Did it feel creepy in a certain way? I.e. drugs, gangs, prostitution, people watching you...? Thanks!
It is VERY creepy.. to me anyway. I was freaking out the entire time. It is just a dirt pathway around the lake. It is really heavily wooded on both sides of the path. Heavy bushes everywhere.. going right down to the lake which you can barely see through all the brush and trees. There was one spot where it is cleared for some kind of pump thing where you could get close to the lake. But.. it is exactly what I would call a lake but more like a hug swamp. With trees and bushes growing out of it.

The area seems icky to me. Maybe it just seems that way cause I live in a snooty area, I don't know. Lots of apartments in the surrounding areas. Lots of what my son considered to be thugs around. Not so much around the lake tho. I only saw 2 couples that had let their dog out by the beginning of the path. And.. one guy that was standing off the path with a dog that really freaked me out cause he looked similar to Nicholas. But.. I don't think it was. An awkward moment for us and him tho as we came around the corner and he was standing down this hill off the path.

Lots of asian, latino, blacks around the area by the apts and surrounding businesses.

I got pictures around the park to show just how thick it is. I just have to figure out where to put them online. I have never done that before.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 10:01 PM
Would Panther lake be the kind of place you think a body could have been put and never found??

It was actually a thought that was going through my mind the entire time. OMG someone could have put him somewhere around here and nobody would ever find him.

Otter
05-10-2008, 10:04 PM
Kinnear Park is above the wet spot.

txsvicki
05-10-2008, 10:09 PM
It still bothers me that Hornysteven and Stevenspazz didn't seem to have much online activity. Unless the ID was changed, I'm wondering if Nicholas didn't find a partner or couple between 2005 and December 2007 to meet with regularly and that is the key to what has happened to him. He seems to have been pretty cautious and discreet in his online and real life activities.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 10:13 PM
It still bothers me that Hornysteven and Stevenspazz didn't seem to have much online activity. Unless the ID was changed, I'm wondering if Nicholas didn't find partner or couple between 2005 and December 2007 to meet with regularly and that is the key to what has happened to him. He seems to have been pretty cautious and discreet in his online and real life activities.
I have been watching his AFF account. I think the fact that it says that he hasn't been online for "under 3 months", is telling. If it changes on the 13th or 14th of this month to "over 3 months" then we know that he hasn't logged in since the day he disappeared or day before. If it is some time after that time then I would think it would be nearly impossible unless he was alive after the 13th when he went missing.

I guess I am basing this on the program being accurate as to last log in. Which it seems to be.

seattlethinker
05-10-2008, 10:16 PM
I have been watching his AFF account. I think the fact that it says that he hasn't been online for "under 3 months", is telling. If it changes on the 13th or 14th of this month to "over 3 months" then we know that he hasn't logged in since the day he disappeared or day before. If it is some time after that time then I would think it would be nearly impossible unless he was alive after the 13th when he went missing.

I guess I am basing this on the program being accurate as to last log in. Which it seems to be.

i keep going back to his "willing to relocate," comment in his profile. Could he have been hoping to meet someone who could "take him away" from his Real Life and then that person ended up not being able to or not wanting to do that afterall and he wasn't planning on leaving but just did when his lover wouldn't leave with him or meet with him the night before Valentine's Day?

MysteryAddict
05-10-2008, 10:20 PM
I had wondered if missing posters of Nick were ever placed visible from the entrance to the Wet Spot,
but then--what's the use because the members are too secretive to tell if they saw him that night!!

Dexter17
05-10-2008, 10:30 PM
Has anyone had the thought that he might be chained up in someone's basement, like that Austrian woman was? Bondage, rough sex, dark places might lead to that kind of foul play?
JMO

imnotheonlyone
05-10-2008, 10:31 PM
If Nick's disappearance has anything to do with this "secret life" of his, I think it's more likely to be connected to the Wet Spot than to his connections with the AFF Thursday night group.

The club is a three minute drive from work. If they have an ATM that would make a lot of sense why he would use his secret pay pal account card and also why LE would not show the picture or video of the place he withdrew the money!

Whatever happened after that nobody knows but we know his car ended up at the condos in Federal Way. Maybe he went home with somebody, went to sleep and the next thing he knew LE was after him?

I think you're on the right track..... that all adds up -

MysteryAddict
05-10-2008, 10:35 PM
Has anyone had the thought that he might be chained up in someone's basement, like that Austrian woman was? Bondage, rough sex, dark places might lead to that kind of foul play?
JMO

Oh my, or imprisoned by those Asians at the Federal Way condos and that's why they act so creepy?

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 10:36 PM
I have been watching his AFF account. I think the fact that it says that he hasn't been online for "under 3 months", is telling. If it changes on the 13th or 14th of this month to "over 3 months" then we know that he hasn't logged in since the day he disappeared or day before. If it is some time after that time then I would think it would be nearly impossible unless he was alive after the 13th when he went missing.

I guess I am basing this on the program being accurate as to last log in. Which it seems to be.

Did his profile say when the last login was? Sorry if you already posted that information - I didn't see it.

SoManyQuestions
05-10-2008, 10:36 PM
Oh my, or imprisoned by those Asians at the Federal Way condos and that's why they act so creepy?

I keep thinking a house boy. He was already getting coffee and cooking.

Dexter17
05-10-2008, 10:36 PM
or possibly he woke up chained to the bed? or in the basement?

MysteryAddict
05-10-2008, 10:38 PM
I keep thinking a house boy. He was already getting coffee and cooking.

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are! LOL

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 10:42 PM
Did his profile say when the last login was? Sorry if you already posted that information - I didn't see it.
They don't have dates on them.. just today, yesterday, this week, this month.. etc. His says "within 3 months" right now. When it switches to the next one which is "over 3 months".. I think that will be very telling about when he was last online. If it was the day of or day before then he very well could have been meeting someone.

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 10:43 PM
I keep thinking a house boy. He was already getting coffee and cooking.

Well, that would go along with the fantasy listed on his profile... something about a boy toy.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 10:43 PM
Hope this works. I am not sure how to post a link here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mysteryphobia/

Dexter17
05-10-2008, 10:43 PM
I noticed also that according to the 6:32 AM message to the Maylasian gal, he must have been doing something in addition to making coffee and oatmeal.
JMO

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 10:44 PM
I keep thinking a house boy. He was already getting coffee and cooking.

Well, that would go along with the fantasy listed on his profile... something about being a boy toy.

SoManyQuestions
05-10-2008, 10:46 PM
I noticed also that according to the 6:32 AM message to the Maylasian gal, he must have been doing something in addition to making coffee and oatmeal.
JMO

LOL I didn't want to get to detailed about what else a house boy might have as "duties" :D

Miss Behavin
05-10-2008, 10:47 PM
Sorry guys... I don't know what happened with that double post. My computer is acting very strange tonight and I think it got stuck or something.... sorry!

LionRun
05-10-2008, 10:51 PM
I'm quoting myself.. I just went and found the email I was looking for..

When SilverDove asked the question about Nicholas being a member of the WetSpot this is the answer she got from the person she was asking.


No, you don't understand, it's not cool to "out" someone as a long-time member of the Wet Spot. I could give a **** if anyone else knows about me but I care about others being "outed" without their consent.


My question is was she saying Nicholas was a long-time member there and she didn't want to out him.. or was that just a general answer applying to anyone..


It's hard to say for sure, but it sounds a little more like that member might have known Nicholas as a member or known that he was a member. Was that the entire quote? Did it say anything anywhere like, "Even if he was a member........."?

Dexter17
05-10-2008, 10:52 PM
those are fantastic photos of the lake!!
Good job!!

seattlethinker
05-10-2008, 10:53 PM
Hope this works. I am not sure how to post a link here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mysteryphobia/


Great Photos!

SoManyQuestions
05-10-2008, 10:53 PM
It's hard to say for sure, but it sounds a little more like that member might have known Nicholas as a member or known that he was a member. Was that the entire quote? Did it say anything anywhere like, "Even if he was a member........."?

I'm going to out myself here but yes that was the whole message.

MysteryAddict
05-10-2008, 10:54 PM
Hope this works. I am not sure how to post a link here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mysteryphobia/

OMG, these look like clips from a murder mystery movie and I expect the body to be found
at location 028!

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 10:54 PM
I don't really understand what is being said on Cheri's board. Sorry.. guys but I am not going to infiltrate AFF and act like I am looking for something that I am not when a simple question gave us the answers that we needed. That makes no sense to me.

SoManyQuestions
05-10-2008, 10:58 PM
I don't really understand what is being said on Cheri's board. Sorry.. guys but I am not going to infiltrate AFF and act like I am looking for something that I am not when a simple question gave us the answers that we needed. That makes no sense to me.

You did the right thing and got good information by doing it. The people there are just that people. They just like sex a whole lot, too. I don't swing but I know enough people who do to know they aren't evil or bad. Even with Nicholas my only problem with what he did was he wasn't honest with Christine.

teedie2
05-10-2008, 11:01 PM
Those are scary photos of the lake. Glad you made your way safely out. It looks quite spooky.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 11:03 PM
You did the right thing and got good information by doing it. The people there are just that people. They just like sex a whole lot, too. I don't swing but I know enough people who do to know they aren't evil or bad. Even with Nicholas my only problem with what he did was he wasn't honest with Christine.

I know.. it isn't like they aren't just like you and me. We all enjoy sex.. or at least I do. So.. they are into different things in regard to that then I am.. doesn't make them any different. I think it is more society than anything in regards to it being private. I say.. if they want to do that.. more power to them.. it is their life and their decisions. I do agree that you shouldn't make the decision for another person tho.. which he seemed to do for Christin. I believe with all my heart that she was not involved in any of that.

The people I have spoken to on there regarding this are really nice. Except for one thought it was a joke!

txsvicki
05-10-2008, 11:04 PM
I don't really understand what is being said on Cheri's board. Sorry.. guys but I am not going to infiltrate AFF and act like I am looking for something that I am not when a simple question gave us the answers that we needed. That makes no sense to me.


Websleuthers were said to have no sense for emailing these friends of h.s., but I think just being honest and asking if they could recognize was a good thing to do. I know Websleuthers don't try to compete with other forums. The info was sent to LE. Cheri's board is now worried about posts that contain porn references, but that is where I first found the pic of Stevenspazz.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 11:05 PM
Those are scary photos of the lake. Glad you made your way safely out. It looks quite spooky.

Aren't THEY? It is pretty creepy there. The creep factor might have been exaggerated by the circumstances but I can't see jogging or walking my children on that trail EVER if I lived there.

teedie2
05-10-2008, 11:09 PM
I'm going to out myself here but yes that was the whole message.

Ah, you are SilverDove? By golly, when you have an idea, you stick with it, don't you? Thanks for your perserverance. :)

Wonder what was going on there on that particular Wednesday.

Otter
05-10-2008, 11:10 PM
I don't really understand what is being said on Cheri's board. Sorry.. guys but I am not going to infiltrate AFF and act like I am looking for something that I am not when a simple question gave us the answers that we needed. That makes no sense to me.

The people on Cheri's board, IMO which is worth nothing, takes WS to task for not getting on the "we hate Christine" bandwagon. Kind of clouds your prespective if that's all you can see, and MOO.

Whatever, and btw, that's a Great Blue Heron. Great pic! They nest in my backyard! :) Its a preserve for them.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 11:10 PM
Hope this works. I am not sure how to post a link here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mysteryphobia/

Thank you SM! The pics are just coming on my turtle dial-up. I think it is very pretty there and that the Heron is really cool, too!

I wouldn't be surprised if at least in this case the fliers were removed by the park services. They may have strict rules on posting fliers no matter the reason that the flier is there.

LionRun
05-10-2008, 11:18 PM
I'm going to out myself here but yes that was the whole message.

Thanks SMQ:).

SoManyQuestions
05-10-2008, 11:21 PM
Ah, you are SilverDove? By golly, when you have an idea, you stick with it, don't you? Thanks for your perserverance. :)

Wonder what was going on there on that particular Wednesday.

My husband says I'm hard headed but to many times when I get a real flash like I did on this one I'm right to often to ignore.

Tue, 02/12/2008
11:00 AM to 5:00 PM Daytime Playtime
4:00 PM to 10:00 PM Drop-In Tuesday (in the Annex)
7:00 PM to 10:00 PM Owners & Slaves Discussion

Wed, 02/13/2008
6:00 PM to 12:00 AM The Hump! 60'S ROCK
Description:

Yeah, yeah, yeah! Classic Rock from the British Invasion to Psychedelia and more!

There also will be Body Painting with Michael starting at 8 pm!

What is The Hump



Unique weekly music themes
Dance
Dance pole (usually)
Voyeurism
Exhibitionism
Where no means no
Clothing optional
Great Conversation
Relaxation
Sex
Quiet BDSM
Ladies, we have lots of single guys here!


We invite you to some amazing conversations, hot dance and more. You may not find exactly what you are looking for here, but you can find people to talk about it with. Dancing, food, amazing conversation, toys, self-gratification, exhibition and voyeurism, play & more. Every month or so, we'll give everyone a chance to choose upcoming themes: playshops, discussions, music and lessons.
7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Life Drawing (in the Annex)

The Tuesday Playtime is ever Tuesday, too.

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 11:22 PM
The people on Cheri's board, IMO which is worth nothing, takes WS to task for not getting on the "we hate Christine" bandwagon. Kind of clouds your prespective if that's all you can see, and MOO.

Whatever, and btw, that's a Great Blue Heron. Great pic! They nest in my backyard! :) Its a preserve for them.
Is that what it is? I was wondering what it was. It was really cool. Never moved the entire time I was there. I was fascinated.

I agree about the other stuff tho. :)

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 11:24 PM
I can't understand what the other board is upset about. We posted about hornysteven07 first (it originated here) on WebSleuths. Someone brought that information from here over to Cheri's Corner and then they get upset that the WebSleuths folks are contacting people about hs07? Why shouldn't we?? That seems little strange to me.

All that should matter is that the information was gathered and passed onto LE. That is my only concern.
---


Websleuthers were said to have no sense for emailing these friends of h.s., but I think just being honest and asking if they could recognize was a good thing to do. I know Websleuthers don't try to compete with other forums. The info was sent to LE. Cheri's board is now worried about posts that contain porn references, but that is where I first found the pic of Stevenspazz.

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 11:26 PM
The Great Blue Heron is a very pretty bird. You are lucky to have them in your backyard :)


The people on Cheri's board, IMO which is worth nothing, takes WS to task for not getting on the "we hate Christine" bandwagon. Kind of clouds your prespective if that's all you can see, and MOO.

Whatever, and btw, that's a Great Blue Heron. Great pic! They nest in my backyard! :) Its a preserve for them.

SeriouslySearching
05-10-2008, 11:36 PM
Wow! You guys have been busy and I see I have to eat my words on Spazz. I admit I was totally wrong! (He still looks young tho.)

Great job tracking him down (at least on those sites) and finding out so much information. My guess is that LE probably already knows that information and if the site is still being accessed...it could be them doing it. I believe it was hinted at before they were doing this.

Still...you guys rock! (Sounds like there is a bit of jealousy coming from the other "camp".)

SadlyMistaken
05-10-2008, 11:37 PM
:clap: I agree! You WS'ers are amazing. Glad I came here!

I can't understand what the other board is upset about. We posted about hornysteven07 first (it originated here) on WebSleuths. Someone brought that information from here over to Cheri's Corner and then they get upset that the WebSleuths folks are contacting people about hs07? Why shouldn't we?? That seems little strange to me.

All that should matter is that the information was gathered and passed onto LE. That is my only concern.
---

LionRun
05-10-2008, 11:41 PM
Wow! You guys have been busy and I see I have to eat my words on Spazz. I admit I was totally wrong! (He still looks young tho.)

Great job tracking him down and finding out so much information. My guess is that LE probably already knows that information and if the site is still being accessed...it could be them doing it. I believe it was hinted at before they were doing this.

Still...you guys rock! (Sounds like there is a bit of jealousy coming from the other "camp".)

I have a nice, shiny fork for you to eat your words:D. Actually, I can understand why you may have doubted that sp was Nicholas. I still am not 100% convinced, yet mostly because I am a facts monger, anal retentive skeptic:crazy:.

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 11:42 PM
OK, this is from hs07's AFF profile:




What location do you fantasize about for a sexual encounter?:

A bed, The beach, The middle of a park, A dark back alley, A movie theatre, A remote wilderness spot, A store dressing room, A hotel room


I wonder if he could have gone to any one of these places, such as a dark alley or remote wilderness spot and something happened to him (he was murdered) at that location...or not, hmmmm..nothing was found in his car that we know of..dang! I still wonder if his car had been washed recently (before it was found).

Dexter17
05-10-2008, 11:42 PM
So the post earlier on mediabistro? by "Whipmaster" who said he left at 6 on a wednesday? might refer to the BDSM that occurs at the wetspot? Maybe whipmaster knows that he went there regularly on wednesdays...
JMO

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 11:46 PM
According to LE Nicholas' normal quitting time on Wednesdays was at 6 PM. It wasn't unusual for him to get off work at that time.


So the post earlier on mediabistro? by "Whipmaster" who said he left at 6 on a wednesday? might refer to the BDSM that occurs at the wetspot? Maybe whipmaster knows that he went there regularly on wednesdays...
JMO

Earthbound Misfit I
05-10-2008, 11:48 PM
Glad to have you here!


:clap: I agree! You WS'ers are amazing. Glad I came here!

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 12:00 AM
So the post earlier on mediabistro? by "Whipmaster" who said he left at 6 on a wednesday? might refer to the BDSM that occurs at the wetspot? Maybe whipmaster knows that he went there regularly on wednesdays...
JMO

Hadn't though of it but maybe it was someone from the Wet Spot trying to give a hint without outing anyone. Especially with that name. If so it was really cryptic.

Dexter17
05-11-2008, 12:05 AM
That's what I was thinking, somanyquestions

SadlyMistaken
05-11-2008, 12:34 AM
Hadn't though of it but maybe it was someone from the Wet Spot trying to give a hint without outing anyone. Especially with that name. If so it was really cryptic.
SMQ and Dexter.. you are so smart. Never even crossed my mind but that makes total sense.. doesn't it? HMM:waitasec:

Busylady
05-11-2008, 01:44 AM
I am wondering how LE first discovered Nicholas "secret life". If I remember correctly it was LE who discovered it then forwarded that info to Christine. Was it the secret pay pal account which had debits for AFF or something to that effect? If LE knew about this lifestyle why did they send out the email saying nothing about life style indicated foul play? I am trying to grasp why LE isn't beating down doors looking for him, if they are aware of this lifestyle. To me this lifestyle choice, with no indications that he packed up and left would point big time to foul play.

My fear is that he did meet with foul play and is out there lying somewhere.

Busylady
05-11-2008, 02:00 AM
I also wanted to say thank you for those that took the lead of the hs name and ran with it to get confirmation and information. I know some on other boards seem to have an issue with the way it was handled, but I think you guys did an amazing job. It appears to me the inquiries were handled with tact. The best way to get accurate information is to come right out and ask what you need to ask, not play games and befriend or beat around the busy. If you stick with the facts, generally you get facts back. IMO

Good job!! Hopefully this is one step closer to finding Nicholas which is really what this is all about.

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 02:04 AM
I am wondering how LE first discovered Nicholas "secret life". If I remember correctly it was LE who discovered it then forwarded that info to Christine. Was it the secret pay pal account which had debits for AFF or something to that effect? If LE knew about this lifestyle why did they send out the email saying nothing about life style indicated foul play? I am trying to grasp why LE isn't beating down doors looking for him, if they are aware of this lifestyle. To me this lifestyle choice, with no indications that he packed up and left would point big time to foul play.

My fear is that he did meet with foul play and is out there lying somewhere.
Nothing in his life style does indicate foul play. It would be more likely to indicate that he walked away. The Wet spot has 10,000 members at least and none of them end up dead. 100's of meet up ads are posted everyday on CL and in the Stranger and none of them end up dead. Yes, one guy had an affair and ended up dead at the hands of a jealous husband but that really doesn't make an unsafe life style. Wives get killed by husbands regularly but that doesn't make marriage a dangerous life style.

You have to realize that being a swinger isn't that dangerous other then std's if people aren't careful. Swingers are also teachers, police, doctors, hairdressers, longshoremen, parents in other words just normal people who enjoy sex and variety.

Packing up would have meant explaining to Christine which I don't think he wanted to do.

Also I'm not sure who's doors you want them beating down.

LionRun
05-11-2008, 02:10 AM
I am wondering how LE first discovered Nicholas "secret life". If I remember correctly it was LE who discovered it then forwarded that info to Christine. Was it the secret pay pal account which had debits for AFF or something to that effect? If LE knew about this lifestyle why did they send out the email saying nothing about life style indicated foul play? I am trying to grasp why LE isn't beating down doors looking for him, if they are aware of this lifestyle. To me this lifestyle choice, with no indications that he packed up and left would point big time to foul play.

My fear is that he did meet with foul play and is out there lying somewhere.

IIRC, LE may have informed Christine that Nicholas had a PayPal account that Christine wasn't aware of and that he may have had a secret life.

Harlett or RKnowley or some please correct me if I am mistaken.

We don't know if the PayPal account had debits connected to aff, The Wet Spot, or anywhere, but it is possible.

LE often states that they have no evidence, and people sometimes interpret that to mean that LE believes there was no crime/accident/suicide/voluntary disappearance, etc.. That is not necessarily the case. For example, LE may theorize or have a gut feeling that a crime occurred but, they have not found evidence yet to substantiate their theory.

When LE stated they had no evidence they really meant just that. There was no blood, used credit cards, trashed car from joyriders/carjacking, or anything else. I imagine they have theories and perhaps leads that we don't have. I hope so, and I hope that we are helping.

Busylady
05-11-2008, 02:23 AM
I see your point, I guess for me I immediately think dangerous when meeting strangers for sexual purposes. Guess I am just sheltered and to me this kind of life style is something I am having a tough time comprehending.


Nothing in his life style does indicate foul play. It would be more likely to indicate that he walked away. The Wet spot has 10,000 members at least and none of them end up dead. 100's of meet up ads are posted everyday on CL and in the Stranger and none of them end up dead. Yes, one guy had an affair and ended up dead at the hands of a jealous husband but that really doesn't make an unsafe life style. Wives get killed by husbands regularly but that doesn't make marriage a dangerous life style.

You have to realize that being a swinger isn't that dangerous other then std's if people aren't careful. Swingers are also teachers, police, doctors, hairdressers, longshoremen, parents in other words just normal people who enjoy sex and variety.

Packing up would have meant explaining to Christine which I don't think he wanted to do.

Also I'm not sure who's doors you want them beating down.

txsvicki
05-11-2008, 02:24 AM
The profile of H.S. says that he doesn't want a relationship but someone to meet with for sexual activity several days per week. This amount of time together could turn into some sort of relationship. Also he mentions wanting to also meet new friends and asks them to look him up and chat. This meeting of new friends after having briefly chatting online could be very dangerous. If a regular several times weekly encounter turned into a relationship in their mind, that could bring jealousy and anger. If Nicholas deceived Christine, he could deceive his sex buddies. Someone very unstable could become violent. Nicholas could even be deceived by a sadistic psychopath.

Busylady
05-11-2008, 02:31 AM
I agree, this is why I am so concerned about his safety. If Nicholas was able to keep this secret from Christine, who knows maybe whoever Nicholas was meeting up with kept it from their significant other as well and that significant other found out. It just seems like a very very risky lifestyle to me.


The profile of H.S. says that he doesn't want a relationship but someone to meet with for sexual activity several days per week. This amount of time together could turn into some sort of relationship. Also he mentions wanting to also meet new friends and asks them to look him up and chat. This meeting of new friends after having briefly chatting online could be very dangerous. If a regular several times weekly encounter turned into a relationship in their mind, that could bring jealousy and anger. If Nicholas deceived Christine, he could deceive his sex buddies. Someone very unstable could become violent. Nicholas could even be deceived by a sadistic psychopath.

LionRun
05-11-2008, 02:32 AM
I see your point, I guess for me I immediately think dangerous when meeting strangers for sexual purposes. Guess I am just sheltered and to me this kind of life style is something I am having a tough time comprehending.

I think that if it is found to be fact that Nicholas met with people from sex/swinger sites in rl he may have been leading a more risky lifestyle than if he had not. A person could meet up with the wrong person, or there could be a jealousy issue if one in a couple that he met with liked Nicholas a little too much, for example. I think that meeting people online and then meeting them in rl for sex or for a relationship might be a little riskier overall than meeting people in the traditional ways. I could be mistaken, and this is just my opnion.

SeriouslySearching
05-11-2008, 02:33 AM
After seeing those photos of the outdoor area by the lake, it reminded me of something here that goes on in one of our wilderness parks. They bust sex rings constantly. Men going to the mountain to hook up. They first pretend they are hiking or bike riding etc. Didn't he mention his love for the outdoors and wanting sex there? I wonder how often he "left to clear his head" by going to the woods for a walk? Do they have restrooms there?

ETA: There is something you might not be taking into consideration either. Maybe Nicholas was the sadistic sociopath/psychopath in his flipside and he got carried away with a tryst.

LionRun
05-11-2008, 02:38 AM
The profile of H.S. says that he doesn't want a relationship but someone to meet with for sexual activity several days per week. This amount of time together could turn into some sort of relationship. Also he mentions wanting to also meet new friends and asks them to look him up and chat. This meeting of new friends after having briefly chatting online could be very dangerous. If a regular several times weekly encounter turned into a relationship in their mind, that could bring jealousy and anger. If Nicholas deceived Christine, he could deceive his sex buddies. Someone very unstable could become violent. Nicholas could even be deceived by a sadistic psychopath.

Good points, txvicki. You sure said it a lot better than I could:).

We don't know if Nicholas's possible secret life that may have included being involved with sex/swinger folks is connected to his disappearance. But, it is all that we have to go on. There were no other leads, and the one we are exploring is possibly valid. I am open minded if other possibilities related or unrelated to our current ideas come about, though.

Floh
05-11-2008, 02:38 AM
Has anyone had the thought that he might be chained up in someone's basement, like that Austrian woman was? Bondage, rough sex, dark places might lead to that kind of foul play?
JMO

That was one of my thoughts some time ago. i mentioned on here the strange case of Kirk Anderson and Joyce McKinney: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_McKinney

Floh
05-11-2008, 02:42 AM
Hope this works. I am not sure how to post a link here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mysteryphobia/

Thank you for the excellent pictures.

Dexter17
05-11-2008, 03:02 AM
You're right, Floh, I remember you saying that. Joyce McKinney was arrested after 3 days- this Steven/Nicholas business has been going on for 2.5 months! And the girl in Austria was kept underground for 24 years.
It could happen, and it does.
JMO

Miss Behavin
05-11-2008, 10:02 AM
Aren't THEY? It is pretty creepy there. The creep factor might have been exaggerated by the circumstances but I can't see jogging or walking my children on that trail EVER if I lived there.

Ugh! Me either! It seems like an isolated place - very dreary and bleak. Thank you for posting those pictures; I finally have a visual now...LOL

It is very remote so if someone wanted to go back there and get their groove on I suppose they wouldn't be noticed. If someone wanted to dispose of a body there I don't know where one would even begin to search...

Miss Behavin
05-11-2008, 10:11 AM
My husband says I'm hard headed but to many times when I get a real flash like I did on this one I'm right to often to ignore.

Tue, 02/12/2008
11:00 AM to 5:00 PM Daytime Playtime
4:00 PM to 10:00 PM Drop-In Tuesday (in the Annex)
7:00 PM to 10:00 PM Owners & Slaves Discussion

Wed, 02/13/2008
6:00 PM to 12:00 AM The Hump! 60'S ROCK
Description:

Yeah, yeah, yeah! Classic Rock from the British Invasion to Psychedelia and more!

There also will be Body Painting with Michael starting at 8 pm!

What is The Hump



Unique weekly music themes
Dance
Dance pole (usually)
Voyeurism
Exhibitionism
Where no means no
Clothing optional
Great Conversation
Relaxation
Sex
Quiet BDSM
Ladies, we have lots of single guys here!

We invite you to some amazing conversations, hot dance and more. You may not find exactly what you are looking for here, but you can find people to talk about it with. Dancing, food, amazing conversation, toys, self-gratification, exhibition and voyeurism, play & more. Every month or so, we'll give everyone a chance to choose upcoming themes: playshops, discussions, music and lessons.
7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Life Drawing (in the Annex)

The Tuesday Playtime is ever Tuesday, too.

This all happens at the Wet Spot? And it's legal? What are the membership fees there, do you know? And, do they have specific themes each night of the week? Do they ever close? Sorry for all the questions, but this is completely new to me. I'm curious as to how it works and how it could possibly fit in with Nicholas's disappearance.

I mean, is this the type of place he could stop at on his way home for a couple of drinks and a quickie and still be home to his wife and kids within a reasonable time frame so as not to make anyone suspicious? Or, is it the type of atmosphere that would require more time?

Ballad
05-11-2008, 10:21 AM
Is anyone in the Seattle area interested in finding out if The WetSpot has an ATM inside?

There could be a sign on the window (though I doubt it), or you would have to go in and see. Sometimes those freestanding ATMs do not have cameras, btw.

I do not want to encourage anyone to go in if they are not comfortable there or to interfere with any sort of investigation LE might be conducting.

Perhaps it could be done with a phone call : "Do you have an ATM inside?"

If the answer if yes, and there was an event like that at 6pm on 2/13, then that would provide a possible believable answer as to why LE never reported which ATM.

ETA:
I'm not sure you can just walk in and see if there is an ATM.
Seems you'd have to go to an orientation and possibly pay the membership fee ($25/year+).
Calling might be the best option.
http://dev.wetspot.org/join.htm

They also have a member-only discussion board online.
Steven may have used an account there.

Miss Behavin
05-11-2008, 10:27 AM
The profile of H.S. says that he doesn't want a relationship but someone to meet with for sexual activity several days per week. This amount of time together could turn into some sort of relationship. Also he mentions wanting to also meet new friends and asks them to look him up and chat. This meeting of new friends after having briefly chatting online could be very dangerous. If a regular several times weekly encounter turned into a relationship in their mind, that could bring jealousy and anger. If Nicholas deceived Christine, he could deceive his sex buddies. Someone very unstable could become violent. Nicholas could even be deceived by a sadistic psychopath.

Now that scenario reminds me of the movie "Fatal Attraction" ---very scary!

Miss Behavin
05-11-2008, 10:46 AM
The profile of H.S. says that he doesn't want a relationship but someone to meet with for sexual activity several days per week. This amount of time together could turn into some sort of relationship. Also he mentions wanting to also meet new friends and asks them to look him up and chat. This meeting of new friends after having briefly chatting online could be very dangerous. If a regular several times weekly encounter turned into a relationship in their mind, that could bring jealousy and anger. If Nicholas deceived Christine, he could deceive his sex buddies. Someone very unstable could become violent. Nicholas could even be deceived by a sadistic psychopath.

The profile also says:

He is single
Does not have any kids
Does not want any kids
Is willing to relocate

I don't know the proximity from his home to Kent, but I do wonder if anybody from "that" life may have run into him while he was out and about with his wife and kids somewhere. :confused:

IIRC, the Wet Spot is a 3 minute drive from his work though. That alone would make me wonder how nobody would see him going in and out of that place, or see his car parked somewhere around there after work. :confused:

Ballad
05-11-2008, 10:49 AM
Interesting reviews of The Wet Spot:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/wet-spot-seattle-2 (http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=D8eqq3EdBPs48D57jiL4Bg)
(click "Wet Spot" under the star rating to see the second review)

The Wet Spot is also known as the Center for Sex Positive Culture:
http://www.sexpositiveculture.org/pages/location

Ballad
05-11-2008, 11:13 AM
Originally Posted by RKnowley http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2205347#post2205347)
This is the profile for hornysteven07.

28 year old Man in Seattle, Washington
Looking For: Women or Couples (man and woman) for Erotic Chat or Email, 1-on-1 sex, Discreet Relationship, Group sex (3 or more!) or Other "Alternative" Activities

Profile for hornysteven07
I am a young guy who's looking to have a good time. Laid back guy, cliche yeah I know but I don't have drama and take life as it comes. I'm into all kinds of women and all different kinds of situations. I also love meeting up with hot couples for hot sweaty times.

I'm athletic and fit, run 3 times a week and hike. Secure and clean, keep myself shaven and well kept. D&D free, but love to have a drink and party and cut loose. I don't have many boundaries when it comes to sex, and love to find new adventures.

My Ideal Person:
Looking for a sexy woman or couple who can be discreet yet have lots of fun and seek new adventures together. Don't need a relationship. I'd like to find someone who just wants a **** buddy to meet several times a week for hot fun. But not opposed to meeting new friends and seeing where things go, even if it's only once. Chat me up to find out more.

What location do you fantasize about for a sexual encounter?:
A bed, The beach, The middle of a park, A dark back alley, A movie theatre, A remote wilderness spot, A store dressing room, A hotel room

What types of sexual activities turn you on?:
Giving Oral Sex, Receiving Oral Sex, Anal Sex, Toys (Vibrators/Dildos/etc.), Fetishes, Light Bondage, Role Playing, Threesomes, Mutual Masturbation, Making Home "Movies", Participating in Erotic Photography, Voyeurism, Handcuffs/Shackles, Blindfolds, Massage

Ever fantasized about having sex with a celebrity? Who? What turns you on about them?:
I've had several sex dreams about, Giada De Laurentiis,
from the food network. she's one hot Italian. mmm mmm

Have you ever had cybersex?:
I've tried it, but it's just not the same.

hornysteven07's Information:

Gender: Man
Birthdate: January 30, 1980
(28 years old)
Sexual Orientation: Straight
Lives in:
Seattle, Washington
(682 miles from you)
Travels to: Prefer not to say
Relocate?: Yes
Marital Status: Single
Height: 6 ft 0 in / 182-185 cm
Body Type: Athletic
Smoking: I'm a non-smoker
Drinking: I'm a light/social drinker
Drugs: I don't use drugs
Education: BA/BS (4 years college)
Race: Caucasian
Religion: Not Applicable
Have Children: No
Want Children: No
Male Endowment: Long/Average
Circumcised: Yes
Speaks: English
Hair Color: Brown
Hair Length : Short
Eye Color : Brown
Glasses or Contacts : None I notice he says "discreet" twice.

Despite the fact he says he is single and childless, I think the repetition of "discreet" and the "don't need a relationship" speaks to that possible lie, if Nicholas wrote this profile.

hedleyinseattle
05-11-2008, 11:16 AM
hey there. been watching a while and haven't posted in a bit. i am checking on the ATM thing today and will let you know what I hear.

StealthTheory
05-11-2008, 11:24 AM
Once again, I want to say I don't think there's anything wrong with swingers clubs, but if Nicholas was inexperienced, someone could have taken advantage of him not being aware of the rules for such groups.
I also wonder if he was about to get fired from his job for being on sites like this? If he was addicted then I can't believe he wouldn't be visiting AFF or other sites while at work. If he knew he had been caught by a supervisor I wonder if that would have triggered a crisis and him ditching his life.

Ballad
05-11-2008, 11:39 AM
hey there. been watching a while and haven't posted in a bit. i am checking on the ATM thing today and will let you know what I hear.

Thank you.

SadlyMistaken
05-11-2008, 12:48 PM
hey there. been watching a while and haven't posted in a bit. i am checking on the ATM thing today and will let you know what I hear.
Oh, thank you hedleyinseattle.

I didn't think of the ATM being there until today. That makes TOTAL sense as to why they may not have reported about it.

SadlyMistaken
05-11-2008, 12:54 PM
Once again, I want to say I don't think there's anything wrong with swingers clubs, but if Nicholas was inexperienced, someone could have taken advantage of him not being aware of the rules for such groups.
I also wonder if he was about to get fired from his job for being on sites like this? If he was addicted then I can't believe he wouldn't be visiting AFF or other sites while at work. If he knew he had been caught by a supervisor I wonder if that would have triggered a crisis and him ditching his life.
Another thing StealthTheory. I have heard from a couple people that there was no PI hired. That they fully intended to hire one but for some very good reasons they didn't. Perhaps the higher ups found something on his computer.

I am not saying this happened. Just a thought as to why they may not have hired one.. when they intended to.

SadlyMistaken
05-11-2008, 01:18 PM
Interesting reviews of The Wet Spot:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/wet-spot-seattle-2 (http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=D8eqq3EdBPs48D57jiL4Bg)
(click "Wet Spot" under the star rating to see the second review)

The Wet Spot is also known as the Center for Sex Positive Culture:
http://www.sexpositiveculture.org/pages/location

Very interesting. Thanks Ballad!

O/T ~

Wishing all you mom's a Happy Mother's Day! :blowkiss:

MysteryAddict
05-11-2008, 01:23 PM
No one here wanted to entertain the possibility that Nicholas would have visited the Wet Spot club,and maybe used his secret pay pal card at their ATM three minutes after
leaving work on Feb. 13th.!
(I'll bet there is an ATM with a little piece of tape over the camera lens) lol.

Not until our cyber sleuthers uncovered and confirmed Nick's aliases on line were we
finally convinced of what his "secret life" consisted of.

Now, there is no way I believe he left work that Wednesday with "organic sugar" or
baking cookies on his mind!

To me, the simplest case scenario is that he went to the club, after which he drove
to the condo's with a friend from there.

Something went horribly wrong at that point.

Unless his family have heard from him, I think that swamp near the condos should be searched.

NoKoolaidKid
05-11-2008, 01:30 PM
It was said in the beginning of this case by Christine and his co-workers that he always went home. I can't figure out when this "secret sex life" would have fit in. How do you run around at all of these meet-ups, etc. in the evening and your wife doesn't know you've left the house? Either someone lied in the beginning about Nicholas always going home after work or he did not have this "secret sex life". Which is it?

NoKoolaidKid
05-11-2008, 01:32 PM
No one here wanted to entertain the possibility that Nicholas would have visited the Wet Spot club,and maybe used his secret pay pal card at their ATM three minutes after
leaving work on Feb. 13th.!
(I'll bet there is an ATM with a little piece of tape over the camera lens) lol.

Not until our cyber sleuthers uncovered and confirmed Nick's aliases on line were we
finally convinced of what his "secret life" consisted of.

Now, there is no way I believe he left work that Wednesday with "organic sugar" or
baking cookies on his mind!

To me, the simplest case scenario is that he went to the club, after which he drove
to the condo's with a friend from there.

Something went horribly wrong at that point.

Unless his family have heard from him, I think that swamp near the condos should be searched.

Mystery, I'm reading backwards (LOL). Who has confirmed Nick's alias names? I got to get to reading and catching up.

SadlyMistaken
05-11-2008, 01:49 PM
It was said in the beginning of this case by Christine and his co-workers that he always went home. I can't figure out when this "secret sex life" would have fit in. How do you run around at all of these meet-ups, etc. in the evening and your wife doesn't know you've left the house? Either someone lied in the beginning about Nicholas always going home after work or he did not have this "secret sex life". Which is it?

Hey again NKK!

I was thinking about this too.

I was listening to the radio a couple of weeks ago and the DJ said that they had a wrong number on the line, on hold and they were going to mess with him. So.. he answers the phone and is talking in this tough guy voice. The man on the other end of the line says something to the effect of sorry it took so long for me to call. I have been busy and only have a few minutes. The DJ says.. that's alright.. so you wanna go out.. go get a drink? (thinking that he is suppose to be this guys friend or something) "The guy says no I told you in my email.. this is gonna have to be quicky dude. I don't have a lot of time." Went on like this for a couple of minutes with the caller getting more impatient about "meeting up and doing it now.. that he needed the release..". The DJ actually hung up on the guy and was silent for a moment and said.. "that was quite possibly the creepiest wrong number I have ever gotten".

My only point being that some of these meet ups could have been for a quicky. We hear about the guys in the bathrooms. Meeting up in the woods. Where ever kind of thing. I don't think that Christine would have noticed a half hour here and there. I think the point was that he didn't go out alot.. to bars and stuff.. didn't come home extra late.. etc. By all outside appearances he was coming right home. Traffic in Seattle is horrible most of the time. That could buy you a lot of time if you wanted to use it as an excuse.

NoKoolaidKid
05-11-2008, 01:59 PM
Hey again NKK!

I was thinking about this too.

I was listening to the radio a couple of weeks ago and the DJ said that they had a wrong number on the line, on hold and they were going to mess with him. So.. he answers the phone and is talking in this tough guy voice. The man on the other end of the line says something to the effect of sorry it took so long for me to call. I have been busy and only have a few minutes. The DJ says.. that's alright.. so you wanna go out.. go get a drink? (thinking that he is suppose to be this guys friend or something) "The guy says no I told you in my email.. this is gonna have to be quicky dude. I don't have a lot of time." Went on like this for a couple of minutes with the caller getting more impatient about "meeting up and doing it now.. that he needed the release..". The DJ actually hung up on the guy and was silent for a moment and said.. "that was quite possibly the creepiest wrong number I have ever gotten".

My only point being that some of these meet ups could have been for a quicky. We hear about the guys in the bathrooms. Meeting up in the woods. Where ever kind of thing. I don't think that Christine would have noticed a half hour here and there. I think the point was that he didn't go out alot.. to bars and stuff.. didn't come home extra late.. etc. By all outside appearances he was coming right home. Traffic in Seattle is horrible most of the time. That could buy you a lot of time if you wanted to use it as an excuse.

I guess that's possible. What do I know about "stop on the way home quickies"? LOL!

Whatever it is, I fear that Nicholas met with foul play and no one seems to care.

NoKoolaidKid
05-11-2008, 02:08 PM
So, if I am understanding all of this correctly, it has now been 100% confirmed that Nicholas is hornysteven07?

And, the information obtained from that AFF profile as well as email correspondence some here have had with other AFF members will now be forwarded to LE so they can investigate Nicholas' disappearance further?

I'm still reading and trying to figure out who confirmed that Nicholas was hornysteven07. Am I understanding correctly that it was confirmed by some stranger in an email?

SadlyMistaken
05-11-2008, 02:49 PM
I'm still reading and trying to figure out who confirmed that Nicholas was hornysteven07. Am I understanding correctly that it was confirmed by some stranger in an email?
It is confirmed that hornysteven07 left messages on the AFF blog for members in and around Kent, WA. He stated on the blogs that he had met with them at their meet and greets in Kent. The mod and planner of those meet and greets has confirmed that the person she knew as Steven or hornysteven07 was in fact Nicholas after looking at pictures of him.

Miss Behavin
05-11-2008, 03:09 PM
It is confirmed that hornysteven07 left messages on the AFF blog for members in and around Kent, WA. He stated on the blogs that he had met with them at their meet and greets in Kent. The mod and planner of those meet and greets has confirmed that the person she knew as Steven or hornysteven07 was in fact Nicholas after looking at pictures of him.

Hi SM and Happy Mother's Day to you as well.

Just out of curiosity, how far is Kent from Publicis? How far is Kent from SeaTac where Nick and Christine lived? If you know.....

Also, are you personally familiar with Kent? Do you know the Cloud 9 bar?

From the photos I saw it kinda looks like a dive; it may be nice on the inside though.

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 03:12 PM
Once again, I want to say I don't think there's anything wrong with swingers clubs, but if Nicholas was inexperienced, someone could have taken advantage of him not being aware of the rules for such groups.
I also wonder if he was about to get fired from his job for being on sites like this? If he was addicted then I can't believe he wouldn't be visiting AFF or other sites while at work. If he knew he had been caught by a supervisor I wonder if that would have triggered a crisis and him ditching his life.

From the dates on the profiles found it doesn't sound like he was that inexperienced and The Wet Spot give orientations you have to go to before you can be a member so I would figure he did know the rules.

As to getting fired I don't know but a lot of creative place don't put many rules on what their employees can and can't do as long as they do their work.

SadlyMistaken
05-11-2008, 03:22 PM
Hi SM and Happy Mother's Day to you as well.

Just out of curiosity, how far is Kent from Publicis? How far is Kent from SeaTac where Nick and Christine lived? If you know.....

Also, are you personally familiar with Kent? Do you know the Cloud 9 bar?

From the photos I saw it kinda looks like a dive; it may be nice on the inside though.

Kent is not far from SeaTac.. a few miles. 20-25 minute drive from downtown probably.

I lived in Kent as a teenager but haven't been back for 15 years probably and I haven't missed it. I am not familiar with Cloud 9 at all. The pictures looked kinda skanky to me but alot of nightclubs look like that on the outside.

ETA.. I just mapquested it. It is 8 miles from their home to Cloud 9.

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 03:23 PM
No one here wanted to entertain the possibility that Nicholas would have visited the Wet Spot club,and maybe used his secret pay pal card at their ATM three minutes after
leaving work on Feb. 13th.!
(I'll bet there is an ATM with a little piece of tape over the camera lens) lol.

Not until our cyber sleuthers uncovered and confirmed Nick's aliases on line were we
finally convinced of what his "secret life" consisted of.

Now, there is no way I believe he left work that Wednesday with "organic sugar" or
baking cookies on his mind!

To me, the simplest case scenario is that he went to the club, after which he drove
to the condo's with a friend from there.

Something went horribly wrong at that point.

Unless his family have heard from him, I think that swamp near the condos should be searched.

I agree but I also think it could be that nothing went wrong and he is with someone. Maybe he "relocated"

I don't know if the swamp is any better spot then any of the 100 other places green spaces with in a 10 mile radius of there if something did happen to him. Also since people do walk dogs in there I would think someone would have smelled something or the dogs would have if he was there.

I just have a feeling he is now living as Steven with someone new but do wonder if something could have happened. If something did happen it could be almost impossible to find him in this area.

SeriouslySearching
05-11-2008, 03:28 PM
From the dates on the profiles found it doesn't sound like he was that inexperienced and The Wet Spot give orientations you have to go to before you can be a member so I would figure he did know the rules.

As to getting fired I don't know but a lot of creative place don't put many rules on what their employees can and can't do as long as they do their work.Not to mention...he never let his laptop of out his sight. He would be doing this sort of thing on his own machine...not the company's, imo.

LionRun
05-11-2008, 03:44 PM
Not to mention...he never let his laptop of out his sight. He would be doing this sort of thing on his own machine...not the company's, imo.

I agree, SS.

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 03:50 PM
Not to mention...he never let his laptop of out his sight. He would be doing this sort of thing on his own machine...not the company's, imo.
True and he complained about no wifi. lol doesn't mean he couldn't have hacked in to some coffee house or place in that area just might not have been as stable.

Eta or maybe even paid for a Starbucks wifi account. Starbucks are on every corner and all have wifi which goes out over most of the block.

SeriouslySearching
05-11-2008, 03:53 PM
I think one logical step would be to check out like clubs outside of the area. If he was going to take off...he wouldn't still be around the same area which is possibly why he hasn't been found. In my opinion, he would still be involved in the group aspect of this as it sounds like he enjoys the setting as much as the sex itself. Since he is being "hunted" on the internet and around Seattle, this would be the only way for him to continue his sex-capades.

ETA: Had an afterthought. Could he have been spotted by someone at church who recognized him either from the net or the club and why he left the church so abruptly?

LionRun
05-11-2008, 04:01 PM
I think one logical step would be to check out like clubs outside of the area. If he was going to take off...he wouldn't still be around the same area which is possibly why he hasn't been found. In my opinion, he would still be involved in the group aspect of this as it sounds like he enjoys the setting as much as the sex itself. Since he is being "hunted" on the internet and around Seattle, this would be the only way for him to continue his sex-capades.

We don't know if he is alive or is no longer with us. Anything could have happened to him, although many of us have varying gut feelings or theories. We also don't know if his reported secret life played any roll in his disappearance. But, it might have, and it is what we are trying to discern one way or another.

I think that if he voluntarily disappeared that he planned it very well--thus far. I think he would back away from certain things that might help to ID him for awhile. This is just speculation of course. My gut feeling is that he met with foul play, but I remain open minded.

T-Rex
05-11-2008, 04:02 PM
Thanks for the pics, SadlyMistaken!
That's a good thought about hooking up during a bikeride. (If you keep your heart rate up, does it still count as cardio?!)

NoKoolaidKid
05-11-2008, 04:04 PM
It is confirmed that hornysteven07 left messages on the AFF blog for members in and around Kent, WA. He stated on the blogs that he had met with them at their meet and greets in Kent. The mod and planner of those meet and greets has confirmed that the person she knew as Steven or hornysteven07 was in fact Nicholas after looking at pictures of him.

Thanks. That helps me understand, then, that we are taking the word of a total stranger to identify hornysteven07 as Nicholas. He very well could be, but I hope we get confirmation from LE instead. I'm not saying I don't think it's possible. I'm just leery of where this confirmation may be coming from, so I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Mygirlsadie
05-11-2008, 04:08 PM
I found this website I do believe its for swingers but i'm not 100% sure since I don't know all the lingo for that type of lifestyle..anyway something in the website struck me.. '' W e meet for a potluck meal and small group discussion afterwards every second Saturday evening in odd numbered months (January, March, May, July, September, and November) from 4:00 to 6:30 p.m. at a poly-friendly location near the Queen Anne - Magnolia bridge on the west side of Queen Anne in Seattle.'' Didn't he work in Queen Anne? Here is the website it is probably nothing but here it is anyway.. http://www.scn.org/~spg/

StealthTheory
05-11-2008, 04:10 PM
As to getting fired I don't know but a lot of creative place don't put many rules on what their employees can and can't do as long as they do their work.

Only part I gotta disagree with is what you said about rules at work. I work in a similar field to Nicholas. My bf works in a similar field at a different company that's even more lax, I know many people at different companies and that own design firms, and the only 1 basic rule is no sex sites/porn. Allowing employees to view pornish sites ( and we've seen the types of pictures featured on AFF ) opens them up to lawsuits from other employees who see what their coworker is viewing. It creates a hostile work environment.

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 04:16 PM
I found this website I do believe its for swingers but i'm not 100% sure since I don't know all the lingo for that type of lifestyle..anyway something in the website struck me.. '' W e meet for a potluck meal and small group discussion afterwards every second Saturday evening in odd numbered months (January, March, May, July, September, and November) from 4:00 to 6:30 p.m. at a poly-friendly location near the Queen Anne - Magnolia bridge on the west side of Queen Anne in Seattle.'' Didn't he work in Queen Anne? Here is the website it is probably nothing but here it is anyway.. http://www.scn.org/~spg/ (http://www.scn.org/%7Espg/)

Poly means multiple partners but usually is more about the relationships, too. In poly relationships it is more usual for everyone to know everyone. Nicholas wouldn't fit in well because he was married but his wife wasn't involved. This of course doesn't mean he wasn't lying or playing the "my wife doesn't understand" card.

LionRun
05-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Thanks. That helps me understand, then, that we are taking the word of a total stranger to identify hornysteven07 as Nicholas. He very well could be, but I hope we get confirmation from LE instead. I'm not saying I don't think it's possible. I'm just leery of where this confirmation may be coming from, so I'll take it with a grain of salt.

I think as you do, NKK. I think there may really be something to the fact that two people from two different places stated that it is Nicholas. But, I need more because I am a facts monger, anal retentive person. While I am still working in the direction that Nicholas is sp and hs, I won't consider it fact until I've learned there is factual evidence to support this via LE--or if we learn conclusively in some other way that hs and/or sp is Nicholas.

The sleuthers here have gone above and beyond by driving to places, making posters, spending hours researching, and more. I am soooo amazed at the dedication you guys have! I am glad to be here and to be a part of this!

SeriouslySearching
05-11-2008, 04:20 PM
We don't know if he is alive or is no longer with us. Anything could have happened to him, although many of us have varying gut feelings or theories. We also don't know if his reported secret life played any roll in his disappearance. But, it might have, and it is what we are trying to discern one way or another.

I think that if he voluntarily disappeared that he planned it very well--thus far. I think he would back away from certain things that might help to ID him for awhile. This is just speculation of course. My gut feeling is that he met with foul play, but I remain open minded.If he left to continue this lifestyle, he would be diving into it big time since he was free to do so instead of "backing off", imo. This is why I don't see it as unusual for him not to have been found because no one is looking outside of the immediate area yet. He would have gone somewhere he could be away from the search and the posters of himself. He wouldn't have to hide who he was as long as he stayed away from the internet.

While it is possible he met with foul play, I think it is more probable he is doing erotic photography somewhere else. This is an area which is difficult to explore because of the sheer volume on the internet of underground films etc. He could be working in one of these clubs being paid cash under the table (Photos/filming) and satisfying his needs at the same time.

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 04:24 PM
I think one logical step would be to check out like clubs outside of the area. If he was going to take off...he wouldn't still be around the same area which is possibly why he hasn't been found. In my opinion, he would still be involved in the group aspect of this as it sounds like he enjoys the setting as much as the sex itself. Since he is being "hunted" on the internet and around Seattle, this would be the only way for him to continue his sex-capades.

ETA: Had an afterthought. Could he have been spotted by someone at church who recognized him either from the net or the club and why he left the church so abruptly?

I'm not sure he would have to go outside the area. There is a lot of "what you see here, what you hear here, stays here" attitude. Plus someone posted an experiment where a little girl's missing picture was post on the door of a mall as people entered. Then right there after they entered was the little girl in the picture. Most people didn't do anything. How much more would this happen with an adult.

I can see this happening:
"You look like that Nicholas guy that is missing"
"Yay a lot of people say that but my name is Steven"
"Oh sorry nice to meet you"

That is if they even noticed at all.

Personally I have always had the feeling he might be a the dance clubs on and around Capital Hill but then again if he was in Federal Way he might be going to Tacoma but I don't know the places in that area.

LionRun
05-11-2008, 04:28 PM
Only part I gotta disagree with is what you said about rules at work. I work in a similar field to Nicholas. My bf works in a similar field at a different company that's even more lax, I know many people at different companies and that own design firms, and the only 1 basic rule is no sex sites/porn. Allowing employees to view pornish sites ( and we've seen the types of pictures featured on AFF ) opens them up to lawsuits from other employees who see what their coworker is viewing. It creates a hostile work environment.

Thank you Stealth. Would that preempt the possibility that he had his laptop up at work possibly logging in to adult sites that you know of?

NoKoolaidKid
05-11-2008, 04:36 PM
I found this website I do believe its for swingers but i'm not 100% sure since I don't know all the lingo for that type of lifestyle..anyway something in the website struck me.. '' W e meet for a potluck meal and small group discussion afterwards every second Saturday evening in odd numbered months (January, March, May, July, September, and November) from 4:00 to 6:30 p.m. at a poly-friendly location near the Queen Anne - Magnolia bridge on the west side of Queen Anne in Seattle.'' Didn't he work in Queen Anne? Here is the website it is probably nothing but here it is anyway.. http://www.scn.org/~spg/

Do swingers have "group discussions"? LOL! Sounds like a support group or prayer group to me.

I must admit. I know pretty much nothign about swingers. The only thing I know is that there is a group of them in my town (rumored to be anyway...LOL), and they go to a particular country club and eat and pass keys around in a bowl and go home with different partners. That's what I've heard anyway and I know nothing more. Doesn't seem to me that they are much into "discussion groups" though.

SeriouslySearching
05-11-2008, 04:38 PM
With his job title, would he have his own office so this would not have been a problem? Also...spazz said he did his internet thing late at night...which would mean after his wife and kids were in bed.

StealthTheory
05-11-2008, 04:46 PM
Thank you Stealth. Would that preempt the possibility that he had his laptop up at work possibly logging in to adult sites that you know of?

Well, I know many places don't want you using non company computers on their network because of the potential to spread viruses. They may also not want that because of bandwidth problems. Those are the exact reasons given to one my coworkers when he asked about our employer providing wifi.
Companies also don't want non company computers on the network because any programs used there must be licensed and a company becomes liable for licensing if software is used to do work.

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 04:50 PM
Do swingers have "group discussions"? LOL! Sounds like a support group or prayer group to me.

I must admit. I know pretty much nothign about swingers. The only thing I know is that there is a group of them in my town (rumored to be anyway...LOL), and they go to a particular country club and eat and pass keys around in a bowl and go home with different partners. That's what I've heard anyway and I know nothing more. Doesn't seem to me that they are much into "discussion groups" though.

It is very very different then that in Seattle. It is a whole sub culture with all kinds of activities and education on health and safe sex. It is also easy to find. Some of the dance clubs have fetish night. The keys in the bowl is so 70's.

I get the feeling that many people would be surprised by how easy all of this is to find here and how much educational information about it there is.

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 04:56 PM
About the Wet Spot

The CSPC is a non-profit, membership-based community center located in Seattle, Washington. We were established in 1999 in a bold attempt to create an environment that was accommodating to sex positive communities and transformative in all areas of human sexuality. We've succeeded in creating that environment.

Our Mission:

Center's mission is to fuel the ongoing growth and development of sex-positive culture through community building, research and education, and outreach. We create opportunities to explore and enhance the joy and intimacy of the full range and potential of human sexuality.

We Achieve Our Mission by:

Maintaining a safe and supportive membership-based community center for the Pacific Northwest's full range of sex-positive cultures.
Offering extensive informational resources such as our library, educational programs and research opportunities.

Providing a wide range of social events and volunteer opportunities to increase our membership's sense of community.

Generally assisting other efforts to inspire sex-positive culture, both within and beyond the Pacific Northwest.

***********************


All events at the CSPC, whether of an educational, support, or social nature, are for the purpose of creating a safe and enriching space for those who are part of modern sex-positive culture. All of our social events, most of which are preceded by workshops or discussion groups, give our members an opportunity to put into practice the skills and theories presented by our various educators and leaders. Our events also give our many volunteers valuable experience that can be taken outside of the community center and put into use in the greater community.
We work to support other sex-positive groups by offering the use of our space to hold discussions and workshops that are (usually) open to the public. We also occasionally sponsor special events at other locations, such as Paradise Unbound (http://paradiseunbound.com/), a gathering of individuals and groups from the sex-positive community held over Labor Day Weekend, and the Seattle Erotic Art Festival, (http://www.seattleerotic.org/) a juried exhibition of artists and collectors from around the world held in the early spring.
Please note: many of our events are only open to our members. All potential members must attend an Intro to Sex-Positive Culture, which are generally held every Thursday at 7:00 PM, every Saturday at 6:30 PM, and on the second Friday and the fourth Friday of every month at 7:30 PM. Please check our schedule to verify dates, as orientations are changed or canceled from time to time.
----------------------------------------
It isn't something that is dirty or sordid. It is different then a lot of people think about. This isn't you old swingers.

teedie2
05-11-2008, 04:57 PM
Poly means multiple partners but usually is more about the relationships, too. In poly relationships it is more usual for everyone to know everyone. Nicholas wouldn't fit in well because he was married but his wife wasn't involved. This of course doesn't mean he wasn't lying or playing the "my wife doesn't understand" card.

SMQ, I am gobsmacked by all of the information on WS and other forums. Had no idea of all the things that people do nowadays. If Nicholas hadn't disappeared, I would have remained happily stupid, I guess.

The Wet Spot ... clothing optional? :eek: There seems to be a lot of people who don't think about anything but sex, and to the degree that they have to go to clubs and groups and forums to display that fact, apparently never getting enough sex, perhaps because they are having empty sex. What has happened to modesty? What has happened to everything? Where is the world I thought I lived in?

Sorry for rant. It gets overwhelming now and then. :(

LionRun
05-11-2008, 05:01 PM
Well, I know many places don't want you using non company computers on their network because of the potential to spread viruses. They may also not want that because of bandwidth problems. Those are the exact reasons given to one my coworkers when he asked about our employer providing wifi.
Companies also don't want non company computers on the network because any programs used there must be licensed and a company becomes liable for licensing if software is used to do work.

Again, thank you for your insight.

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 05:06 PM
SMQ, I am gobsmacked by all of the information on WS and other forums. Had no idea of all the things that people do nowadays. If Nicholas hadn't disappeared, I would have remained happily stupid, I guess.

The Wet Spot ... clothing optional? :eek: There seems to be a lot of people who don't think about anything but sex, and to the degree that they have to go to clubs and groups and forums to display that fact, apparently never getting enough sex, perhaps because they are having empty sex. What has happened to modesty? What has happened to everything? Where is the world I thought I lived in?

Sorry for rant. It gets overwhelming now and then. :(

Sorry :(

I've heard that if it is going on in San Francisco it most likely started in Seattle. San Francisco is just better at self-promotion.

Earthbound Misfit I
05-11-2008, 05:21 PM
I just posted this message on tribe.net. It is for wetspot-friends. I am going to start going through all the people who are members of this list and see if I can spot Nicholas there. There are 370 members of the wetspot-friends tribe.

Here is what I posted:
http://wetspot-friends.tribe.net/thread/ffab3f8f-3cae-42fc-bdd6-f2a669755c7f (http://wetspot-friends.tribe.net/thread/ffab3f8f-3cae-42fc-bdd6-f2a669755c7f)

I think I may have found a profile on tribe.net for Nicholas (under the name Steven) that were created in 2005 but the profile is empty so it's very hard to say if it is him, but, it is possiblity.

http://people.tribe.net/96772fd9-e15e-4590-8594-692c060c280c (http://people.tribe.net/96772fd9-e15e-4590-8594-692c060c280c)

Here are the tribes this Steven was a member of:

A dead useless tribe (http://itsallreal.tribe.net/), Craigslist Seattle (http://craigslistseattle.tribe.net/), iPod users (http://ipodusers.tribe.net/), iTunes (http://itunes.tribe.net/), podcast (http://podcast.tribe.net/), ReplayTV (http://replaytv.tribe.net/), Seattle (http://see-attle.tribe.net/), Seattle Deviants (http://seattledeviants.tribe.net/), Seattle Drunks (http://seattledrunks.tribe.net/), Seattle Seahawks (http://seattleseahawks.tribe.net/), What's on Your iPod? (http://ipod.tribe.net/),

Miss Behavin
05-11-2008, 05:48 PM
SMQ, I am gobsmacked by all of the information on WS and other forums. Had no idea of all the things that people do nowadays. If Nicholas hadn't disappeared, I would have remained happily stupid, I guess.

The Wet Spot ... clothing optional? :eek: There seems to be a lot of people who don't think about anything but sex, and to the degree that they have to go to clubs and groups and forums to display that fact, apparently never getting enough sex, perhaps because they are having empty sex. What has happened to modesty? What has happened to everything? Where is the world I thought I lived in?

Sorry for rant. It gets overwhelming now and then. :(

You are not alone, teedie...LOL I've always considered myself a fairly liberal and open-minded person, but I had no idea these types of clubs existed. Maybe because I've lived most of my life in a quaint small town where swingers clubs wouldn't be allowed and people are more reserved about broadcasting such activities. I'm sure the bigger cities in my surrounding area do have such clubs, but I have never seen any advertisements.

RhondaIL
05-11-2008, 06:02 PM
I am playing catch up and apologize if I missed the answers to the following questions.

How many 28 year old Steven/Stephen's live in the Seattle area?

If the Wet Spot is a 3 minute drive from NF's place of employment, why would he drive that short of a distant and try to find a parking space? Does the Wet Spot have private parking?

HOH reported the ATM withdrawal was at 6:13 p.m. findnicholasfrancisco.com reports he was last seen leaving work at 6:10 p.m. If it is a 3 minute drive to the Wet Spot, I don't think he could leave the office at 6:10, walk to his car, make the 3 minute drive and withdraw from an ATM at the Wet Spot by 6:13 p.m. Do we have an exact location of the ATM machine?

Some have speculated something went wrong at one of these alleged meet ups, LE said there were no clues in his car, Heritage Condo residents stated the car had been moved a couple of times.. Why would someone risk moving his car and leaving behind trace evidence? Would he take the laptop and his Ipod in the Wet Spot? How did his car get from the Wet Spot to Heritage Condos? Someone had to drive it, but LE found no signs of foul play.

I have read Seattle has a tip line. Tips can be emailed, texted, or phoned in. $15,000 is a lot of money. If the Wet Spot may be a link to finding NF, I am surprised this tip has not been called in and investigated by LE. Any thoughts?

Was the "secret life" ever mentioned before the email from LE dated 3/27? Why was the "Wet Spot" posted 2 1/2 weeks before LE's statement about the "secret life"?

TIA

MysteryAddict
05-11-2008, 06:12 PM
Thanks. That helps me understand, then, that we are taking the word of a total stranger to identify hornysteven07 as Nicholas. He very well could be, but I hope we get confirmation from LE instead. I'm not saying I don't think it's possible. I'm just leery of where this confirmation may be coming from, so I'll take it with a grain of salt.

I apologize for not getting back to you with the answer to your question earlier.

I'll just add that it was discovered by RKnowley that hornysteveno7 was a member of AFF
and that this group meets every Thursday night at a place called club 9.
The lady in charge of the group (Katin Kent) answered an e-mail acknowledging
that she knew Nicholas as "Steven" he is a nice guy and has a beautiful family.
She sounded believable!

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 06:22 PM
I am playing catch up and apologize if I missed the answers to the following questions.

How many 28 year old Steven/Stephen's live in the Seattle area?

If the Wet Spot is a 3 minute drive from NF's place of employment, why would he drive that short of a distant and try to find a parking space? Does the Wet Spot have private parking?

HOH reported the ATM withdrawal was at 6:13 p.m. findnicholasfrancisco.com reports he was last seen leaving work at 6:10 p.m. If it is a 3 minute drive to the Wet Spot, I don't think he could leave the office at 6:10, walk to his car, make the 3 minute drive and withdraw from an ATM at the Wet Spot by 6:13 p.m. Do we have an exact location of the ATM machine?

Some have speculated something went wrong at one of these alleged meet ups, LE said there were no clues in his car, Heritage Condo residents stated the car had been moved a couple of times.. Why would someone risk moving his car and leaving behind trace evidence? Would he take the laptop and his Ipod in the Wet Spot? How did his car get from the Wet Spot to Heritage Condos? Someone had to drive it, but LE found no signs of foul play.

I have read Seattle has a tip line. Tips can be emailed, texted, or phoned in. $15,000 is a lot of money. If the Wet Spot may be a link to finding NF, I am surprised this tip has not been called in and investigated by LE. Any thoughts?

Was the "secret life" ever mentioned before the email from LE dated 3/27? Why was the "Wet Spot" posted 2 1/2 weeks before LE's statement about the "secret life"?

TIA
I'm sure there was another email I'm missing but the first mention I can find at the moment about a secret or "double" life was here.
http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?p=179229&highlight=secret#post179229
that was the info that got me looking into the Wet Spot.

I also have reason to believe that the LE already knew about the Wet Spot before I ever posted about it.
ETA also any talk about the Wet Spot started in April which is after the March email

Miss Behavin
05-11-2008, 06:33 PM
I'm sure there was another email I'm missing but the first mention I can find at the moment about a secret or "double" life was here.
http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?p=179229&highlight=secret#post179229
that was the info that got me looking into the Wet Spot.

I also have reason to believe that the LE already knew about the Wet Spot before I ever posted about it.
ETA also any talk about the Wet Spot started in April which is after the March email

Did I understand right with the postings at IS that you were contacted by LE because of mentioning The Wet Spot?

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 06:41 PM
Did I understand right with the postings at IS that you were contacted by LE because of mentioning The Wet Spot?

Unless someone was trying to put me on I was contacted by someone using the name Jan Rhodes. At the time I had people so upset about what I posted that at first I dismissed it as a joke but after rereading it several times and realizing it sounded more "official" then a joke with phone numbers and so forth I now do believe it is more likely to have been LE.

Since at the time I though it was a joke so I just said "ask the people at the Wet Spot" and the answer was just Thanks.

I'm not posting it all because it was a pm but it did say I knew more about it then normal writers.

ETA I have to admit my post on IS sounded a bit strange because when I made it I was angry because I thought it was a joke.

Miss Behavin
05-11-2008, 06:55 PM
Unless someone was trying to put me on I was contacted by someone using the name Jan Rhodes. At the time I had people so upset about what I posted that at first I dismissed it as a joke but after rereading it several times and realizing it sounded more "official" then a joke with phone numbers and so forth I now do believe it is more likely to have been LE.

Since at the time I though it was a joke so I just said "ask the people at the Wet Spot" and the answer was just Thanks.

I'm not posting it all because it was a pm but it did say I knew more about it then normal writers.

ETA I have to admit my post on IS sounded a bit strange because when I made it I was angry because I thought it was a joke.

Well, I certainly hope LE can get someone from there to give answers, even if it's simply looking at some of NF's photos and saying
"yes, he is/was a member" or "no, he's never been here." It may not have anything to do with his disappearance, but it could.

MysteryAddict
05-11-2008, 06:56 PM
Does anyone here see how all this research into the past has a real chance of giving us a
clue to Nick's whereabouts today?

I'm losing hope.

Miss Behavin
05-11-2008, 07:07 PM
I wish we could have learned more information from Katinkent about the guy she knew as Steven. I wonder if LE will talk with her (and others) from Cloud 9.

I'd like to know how often she interacted with Steven face-to-face. What did they talk about? What did he tell her (and others) about himself? Did he hang out with one specific person? How frequently did Steven attend the meet and greet in Kent?

I noticed in her email response she said something about his beautiful family.. how did she know that? Was she aware before being contacted that he was a missing person? If so, did she contact LE and say, "hey...I know that guy...?

Miss Behavin
05-11-2008, 07:50 PM
Does anyone here see how all this research into the past has a real chance of giving us a
clue to Nick's whereabouts today?

I'm losing hope.

Awww... I hope you don't really feel that way, MA. Please don't become disheartened. All of this new information is overwhelming and hard to swallow, I know. Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with NF's disappearance, but we can't be sure of that.

We have a little bit more information now than we did initially and I feel it will possibly open up new leads. More people had contact with Nicholas in his secret life that we are now aware of. They may have some information as to who he was hanging out with, where he was hanging out, what types of activities he was participating in , etc... At this point, I don't feel any stone should be left unturned regardless of how unpleasant it is.

The most important thing is finding Nicholas for the sake of his children. He may not have been a perfect husband afterall, but in the eyes of his children none of that matters. They deserve to know whether he is alive or not.

RoseRed
05-11-2008, 07:52 PM
SMQ, I am gobsmacked by all of the information on WS and other forums. Had no idea of all the things that people do nowadays. If Nicholas hadn't disappeared, I would have remained happily stupid, I guess.

The Wet Spot ... clothing optional? :eek: There seems to be a lot of people who don't think about anything but sex, and to the degree that they have to go to clubs and groups and forums to display that fact, apparently never getting enough sex, perhaps because they are having empty sex. What has happened to modesty? What has happened to everything? Where is the world I thought I lived in?

Sorry for rant. It gets overwhelming now and then. :(

I am just as gob smacked as you, never would have had the foggiest idea these things were happening.

I would like to add I do not live even remotely close to Seattle, am not judging anyone but now we KNOW why MH is on a campaign to take Seattle back for God.

I think before this case is solved we are going to learn a great deal more about this.

I also firmly believe at least someone person at Publicis knows about and is connected to these clubs also.

I have always felt that the statement made by a coworker that " Nick was a man who always went straight home was more in mockery than honesty. " I may be incorrect in my thinking and am always willing to admit I was wrong but I think we will eventually find out there are more from Publicis involved in these clubs. I am not saying I believe they are involved in his dissapearence but that they have and had knowledge of the club memberships.

txsvicki
05-11-2008, 07:53 PM
Does anyone here see how all this research into the past has a real chance of giving us a
clue to Nick's whereabouts today?

I'm losing hope.

We don't know if Katinkent knew that Nicholas was missing or not. I think by alerting someone like her who is a moderator and very involved in the activities of this lifestyle there is a better chance that she will keep her eyes and ears open by telling others who may not be aware of the disappearance. Maybe someone will remember something suspicious and alert LE.

StealthTheory
05-11-2008, 07:57 PM
Let's all keep in mind that the judgements we pass in this thread(myself included) may affect those who have informationn and are involved in these clubs. The last thing we should do is appear hostile and judgemental. We WANT those who may have known Nicholas through these groups to feel comfortable going to LE.

SeriouslySearching
05-11-2008, 08:07 PM
I think that LE should have already contacted ANY group they knew him to be associated with and the people involved in that group...the church, his office, and sex clubs to Bible study groups. To me, it is all the same in finding out where Nicholas is or could be. Did LE bother to investigate? They aren't saying, but if the people who moderate that club didn't know he was missing...evidently not.

I don't have a problem with adults having whatever sexual experience they want as long as it is consensual. I am not surprised that Nicholas would choose this lifestyle over what he felt was crushing him at the time. I said it in the first few posts after he went missing that I believed he walked because of the pressures. I believe it more now.

txsvicki
05-11-2008, 08:31 PM
I also Nicholas could have left due to financial pressures, not being able to have an open alternative lifestyle, and the new pregnancy. If he left though, I can only see it being with someone who would engage in the alternative sexual lifestyle and with someone who also has a career. I think foul play is just as likely though since Nicholas didn't take any clothing or his vehicle.

MysteryAddict
05-11-2008, 08:34 PM
We don't know if Katinkent knew that Nicholas was missing or not. I think by alerting someone like her who is a moderator and very involved in the activities of this lifestyle there is a better chance that she will keep her eyes and ears open by telling others who may not be aware of the disappearance. Maybe someone will remember something suspicious and alert LE.

I hope you are right that all the work involved in the research will lead to a clue.

My worry was that most of this is old news, but you are right there is always
hope that someone will remember something, after all there is that $15,000 reward
still available.

SeriouslySearching
05-11-2008, 08:47 PM
True, MA. Right now, 15k would buy a lot of gasoline! Maybe someone will decide they need the extra cash and do the right thing.

Floh
05-11-2008, 09:34 PM
I think that LE should have already contacted ANY group they knew him to be associated with and the people involved in that group...the church, his office, and sex clubs to Bible study groups. To me, it is all the same in finding out where Nicholas is or could be. Did LE bother to investigate? They aren't saying, but if the people who moderate that club didn't know he was missing...evidently not.

I don't have a problem with adults having whatever sexual experience they want as long as it is consensual. I am not surprised that Nicholas would choose this lifestyle over what he felt was crushing him at the time. I said it in the first few posts after he went missing that I believed he walked because of the pressures. I believe it more now.

:clap:

T-Rex
05-11-2008, 09:39 PM
Does anyone here see how all this research into the past has a real chance of giving us a
clue to Nick's whereabouts today?

I'm losing hope.

Well, if we find an online i.d. LE didn't already have, that could be another e-mail / pm account to check.

Floh
05-11-2008, 09:53 PM
I am just as gob smacked as you, never would have had the foggiest idea these things were happening.

I would like to add I do not live even remotely close to Seattle, am not judging anyone but now we KNOW why MH is on a campaign to take Seattle back for God.

I think before this case is solved we are going to learn a great deal more about this.

I also firmly believe at least someone person at Publicis knows about and is connected to these clubs also.

I have always felt that the statement made by a coworker that " Nick was a man who always went straight home was more in mockery than honesty. " I may be incorrect in my thinking and am always willing to admit I was wrong but I think we will eventually find out there are more from Publicis involved in these clubs. I am not saying I believe they are involved in his dissapearence but that they have and had knowledge of the club memberships.

Are you thinking this is just Seattle which has swinger clubs? :confused:

interesting idea more more from Publicis may be involved. i'm not sure we will ever find ot this to be the case though. people are pretty discreet in the swinger world, it would appear.

RoseRed
05-11-2008, 10:03 PM
Are you thinking this is just Seattle which has swinger clubs? :confused:

interesting idea more more from Publicis may be involved. i'm not sure we will ever find ot this to be the case though. people are pretty discreet in the swinger world, it would appear.

No, I am not thinking it is just in Seattle at all. I was just trying to connect the dots as they pertain to this case only.

I don't think Nick joined these clubs and groups alone. I think he did have one or more close buddies also but as I stated I am open to all ideas and never to proud to say I was on the wrong track.

Floh
05-11-2008, 10:33 PM
No, I am not thinking it is just in Seattle at all. I was just trying to connect the dots as they pertain to this case only.

I don't think Nick joined these clubs and groups alone. I think he did have one or more close buddies also but as I stated I am open to all ideas and never to proud to say I was on the wrong track.

BTW, welcome to Websleuths. :)

twinkiesmom
05-11-2008, 11:09 PM
Are you thinking this is just Seattle which has swinger clubs? :confused:

interesting idea more more from Publicis may be involved. i'm not sure we will ever find ot this to be the case though. people are pretty discreet in the swinger world, it would appear.

I live in the Chicago area and have never heard of a swinger club, not in the city or suburbs...Not saying it doesn't exist, but if it does, it's underground.

LillyRush
05-11-2008, 11:23 PM
Sorry :(

I've heard that if it is going on in San Francisco it most likely started in Seattle. San Francisco is just better at self-promotion.

Huh? lol You can't be serious. Yeah, Seattle is responsible for passing down all the sexual sins going on in San Francisco. I'm sure. Yeah. Let me apologize right now to all the Californians who would otherwise be saints if not for the bad influence of Seattleites. :rolleyes:

Also, as far as these swinger groups going on only in big cities - you are wrong. When I was in college, there was a professor doing a study on this and the community nearest by that had these groups - not clubs, but people meeting at the homes of "party hosts" - was in a nearby rural county in one of the most outwardly conservative towns within that rural area. In fact, this particular rural town in a rural county was always trying to distance themselves from the craaazy nearby university-centered town. I guess they forgot that swapping spouses was not exactly the most conservative or sane thing to do - oops. So, go figure. They may not be in the form "clubs", but they are there.

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 11:30 PM
:D I'm sure the study is spot on.

Huh? lol You can't be serious. Yeah, Seattle is responsible for passing down all the sexual sins going on in San Francisco. I'm sure. Yeah. Let me apologize right now to all the Californians who would otherwise be saints if not for the bad influence of Seattleites. :rolleyes:

Also, as far as these swinger groups going on only in big cities - you are wrong. When I was in college, there was a professor doing a study on this and the community nearest by that had these groups - not clubs, but people meeting at the homes of "party hosts" - was in a nearby rural county in one of the most outwardly conservative towns within that rural area. In fact, this particular rural town in a rural county was always trying to distance themselves from the craaazy nearby university-centered town. I guess they forgot that swapping spouses was not exactly the most conservative or sane thing to do - oops. So, go figure. They may not be in the form "clubs", but they are there.

twinkiesmom
05-11-2008, 11:31 PM
[QUOTE=LillyRush;2209579]Huh? lol You can't be serious. Yeah, Seattle is responsible for passing down all the sexual sins going on in San Francisco. I'm sure. Yeah. Let me apologize right now to all the Californians who would otherwise be saints if not for the bad influence of Seattleites. :rolleyes:

Also, as far as these swinger groups going on only in big cities - you are wrong. QUOTE]

Maybe SoManyQuestions was referring to having a place like the WetSpot out in the open there on the corner like a YMCA of sex?

We all know this kind of thing goes on in private homes....but this place is operating like a community center.

LillyRush
05-11-2008, 11:34 PM
I am playing catch up and apologize if I missed the answers to the following questions.

How many 28 year old Steven/Stephen's live in the Seattle area?

If the Wet Spot is a 3 minute drive from NF's place of employment, why would he drive that short of a distant and try to find a parking space? Does the Wet Spot have private parking?

HOH reported the ATM withdrawal was at 6:13 p.m. findnicholasfrancisco.com reports he was last seen leaving work at 6:10 p.m. If it is a 3 minute drive to the Wet Spot, I don't think he could leave the office at 6:10, walk to his car, make the 3 minute drive and withdraw from an ATM at the Wet Spot by 6:13 p.m. Do we have an exact location of the ATM machine?

Some have speculated something went wrong at one of these alleged meet ups, LE said there were no clues in his car, Heritage Condo residents stated the car had been moved a couple of times.. Why would someone risk moving his car and leaving behind trace evidence? Would he take the laptop and his Ipod in the Wet Spot? How did his car get from the Wet Spot to Heritage Condos? Someone had to drive it, but LE found no signs of foul play.

I have read Seattle has a tip line. Tips can be emailed, texted, or phoned in. $15,000 is a lot of money. If the Wet Spot may be a link to finding NF, I am surprised this tip has not been called in and investigated by LE. Any thoughts?

Was the "secret life" ever mentioned before the email from LE dated 3/27? Why was the "Wet Spot" posted 2 1/2 weeks before LE's statement about the "secret life"?

TIA

Good points, and I agree with you.

LillyRush
05-11-2008, 11:36 PM
:D I'm sure the study is spot on.

Nevermind. I see that you came here from ctv, I mean "IS". 'Nuff said. :crazy:

ckhagen
05-11-2008, 11:41 PM
Swinging definitely goes on *everywhere*. Even in small towns. I'm a pretty uptight Christian moral type girl with two kids and a husband and even I know there's swingers around town. There's even a swingers club a couple towns over (and we live in the Bible belt). It's pretty widely known... I think those of us under 30 may be a little more aware of it though.

Now, for the circle of friends that NF and CF would have likely had (being church members at MH, as I am a member of a charismatic, evangelicalish church and have been my entire life)... I find it totally, unbelievably odd. Not saying everyone in those types of churches has a perfect lifestyle, definitely not, we're all human, but swinging/fetish/sex club stuff is just way out there... porn or an affair wouldn't shock me, but this is definitely out of the realm of normal unacceptable behavior if ykwim?

I could easily imagine putting myself in CFs shoes for just a minute because our lives are pretty similar on the outside. Young, Christian, SAHM with two toddlers, married 6 years, 28 y/o husbands, I'm a graphic artists and have made handmade items for sale online in the past and am very connected with a couple of forum communities related to crafting, kids, etc.... To top it off, my husband is pretty sneaky and has hid things from me in the past.

That said, if I found out my dh had been up to this stuff... ugh, ugh, ugh. If he wasn't dead already I would want to kill him or hope he was. My world would be shattered. I would be mortified, feel completely betrayed, and would want to protect my children and just go and hide somewhere.

Sad thing is... maybe all of this stuff had NOTHING to do with circumstances surrounding his disappearance. But, it's so hard to disconnect the two considering how much he hid and the shock involved (particularly for his wife and his parents).

SoManyQuestions
05-11-2008, 11:41 PM
Nevermind. I see that you came here from ctv, I mean "IS". 'Nuff said. :crazy:
Oh my sorry I'm not from Cheri's board. But I just have trouble with bashing Christine all day every day.

I've been doing a bit of research because I'm just use to the Seattle I know from hanging around to many of the free thinkers here, but I'm beginning to understand that my view of the world isn't the same as others. I don't believe that anyone view is all right or all wrong.

I figured you were having a little fun at my expense you wouldn't mind if I did the same. Sorry if I offended you.

SadlyMistaken
05-11-2008, 11:43 PM
Huh? lol You can't be serious. Yeah, Seattle is responsible for passing down all the sexual sins going on in San Francisco. I'm sure. Yeah. Let me apologize right now to all the Californians who would otherwise be saints if not for the bad influence of Seattleites. :rolleyes:

Also, as far as these swinger groups going on only in big cities - you are wrong. When I was in college, there was a professor doing a study on this and the community nearest by that had these groups - not clubs, but people meeting at the homes of "party hosts" - was in a nearby rural county in one of the most outwardly conservative towns within that rural area. In fact, this particular rural town in a rural county was always trying to distance themselves from the craaazy nearby university-centered town. I guess they forgot that swapping spouses was not exactly the most conservative or sane thing to do - oops. So, go figure. They may not be in the form "clubs", but they are there.

It is going on everywhere. I don't think that anyone suggested it wasn't. Most of us just don't see.

I swear I saw a commercial for a new tv show that had to do with this lifestyle. I have been looking for it though and can't find it. I think it is something that more and more people are becoming open to again. It was big in the 70's or so my mom said. I didn't want to know any more.

LillyRush
05-11-2008, 11:51 PM
Maybe SoManyQuestions was referring to having a place like the WetSpot out in the open there on the corner like a YMCA of sex?

We all know this kind of thing goes on in private homes....but this place is operating like a community center.

Well, maybe that is what that poster meant. Of course, they could have just said that instead of making non-sensical statements saying one city is responsible for these things happening in another city. I don't know how you got the "Wet Spot" = ymca/community center out of a post that said San Francisco's problems originated in Seattle, but hey thanks for trying to clarify. (that was not sarcastic - i do appreciate the attempt at interpretation)

Anyway, I actually am positive that the "Wet Spot" is not out on the corner like a YMCA community center. I never heard of it until this disappearance and have lived here for several years, just like you mentioned living in Chicago and not being actively aware of any of these places. Me neither.

RhondaIL
05-11-2008, 11:56 PM
Good points, and I agree with you.

Thanks!

SeriouslySearching
05-11-2008, 11:57 PM
It has been mentioned on "That 70's Show" several times (Donna's parents were swingers), it was part of Danielle Van Dam's kidnapping and murder case, and it has been going on all over the country for many years...even in open clubs such as the Wet Spot. People often don't pay attention if it isn't their thing or if they choose to look the other way.

LillyRush
05-12-2008, 12:03 AM
It is going on everywhere. I don't think that anyone suggested it wasn't. Most of us just don't see.

I swear I saw a commercial for a new tv show that had to do with this lifestyle. I have been looking for it though and can't find it. I think it is something that more and more people are becoming open to again. It was big in the 70's or so my mom said. I didn't want to know any more.

Yes, most people have agreed that it goes on everywhere, whether they're aware of it or not. But, if you look back over the last couple of pages there were at least two people who have tried to make it sound like a Seattle "thing" and that was what I was addressing. Someone even said that they now know why Mars Hill is trying to save the Seattle area and bring it back to God. Then, there was the one that I just addressed about the negative things happening in San Francisco were brought down there from Seattle. That sure sounds to me like someone who's not seeing the big picture and trying to blame the problem on one location. IMO

txsvicki
05-12-2008, 12:07 AM
I'm not sure Nicholas could even be classified as a swinger. His wife didn't participate and claims to have known nothing about his other life. If HS is Nicolas, he didn't just want a sexual encounter every now and then, he wanted it several times per week at least and more if he could get it. This in addition to having a wife and attending church really is bizarre. About Seattle or any other town, I'm sure Nicholas had much better luck in a big place like Seattle than he would say in Muleshoe, Texas.

SadlyMistaken
05-12-2008, 12:07 AM
Yes, most people have agreed that it goes on everywhere, whether they're aware of it or not. But, if you look back over the last couple of pages there were at least two people who have tried to make it sound like a Seattle "thing" and that was what I was addressing. Someone even said that they now know why Mars Hill is trying to save the Seattle area and bring it back to God. Then, there was the one that I just addressed about the negative things happening in San Francisco were brought down there from Seattle. That sure sounds to me like someone who's not seeing the big picture and trying to blame the problem on one location. IMO
I see what you are saying.

I guess I saw the post differently. I thought she was saying that it is very prevelant here and accepted.. much like it is known to be in San Franicisco and that some have said that specific outlook on sexuality.. may have even originated in Seattle and not there.

But.. I could be wrong! I get your point if looking at it the way you did.

twinkiesmom
05-12-2008, 12:07 AM
[QUOTE=LillyRush;2209653]
Anyway, I seriously doubt and actually am positive that the "Wet Spot" is not out on the corner like a YMCA community center.QUOTE]

I guess I got the impression it was "out there" like a YMCA because as soon as we heard Nick had a secret life, someone on IS (probably SilverDove) suggested the WetSpot. It just sounded like it was there around the corner. I'm dying to know what the shingle says outside the door.

SeattleGuy
05-12-2008, 12:09 AM
As conservative/traditional a message Mars Hill preaches, I have to say from an outsider's perspective that this church seems to attract many non-traditional people. I don't live too far from the Ballard facility, and many times when I am driving by most if not all of the people coming out and going in are pierced/tattooed/goth looking people. It looks more like they are going to a nightclub than church.

Also, many people I have talked to locally here have heard that MH is the place to go when you are looking for a hookup. May sound odd, but I am only mentioning it since I have heard it from so many people.

I know I will probably take a beating here from the members of the church who are here reading. I don't mean to offend. Also, I know we aren't here to debate MH or religion.

I don't suppose anyone at MH would be able to review a list of the friends and contacts which have been discovered recently to see if any names are recognized as a member? Just thinking if so, then maybe they would be more willing to do the right thing and tell LE all they know?

I'm merely suggesting that NF may have even had contacts in the church who were well aware of his activities, and may even perhaps have participated. With as many members as MH claims to have, I would hazard a bet that if NF were frequenting the Wet Spot, or swinging groups, that he would be bound to run into other MH members.

I'm wondering if anyone from MH could review a list of the names / emails of NF's friends who have recently been discovered online, and see if they recognize anyone as a member? I know it's a long shot, but I was thinking if so, and there were a match, then that person may be more willing to do the right thing and come forward with all they know.

LillyRush
05-12-2008, 12:12 AM
It has been mentioned on "That 70's Show" several times (Donna's parents were swingers), it was part of Danielle Van Dam's kidnapping and murder case, and it has been going on all over the country for many years...even in open clubs such as the Wet Spot. People often don't pay attention if it isn't their thing or if they choose to look the other way.

Yes, SS, the Danielle Van Dam case! I knew there was another high profile case where this came up. And remember the parents' lifestyle was seriously thought to be a factor in the very, very beginning. Of course, that happened in San Diego/Southern California, so they were probably influenced by San Francisco who was influenced by.....and the chain of negative sexual influences just keep going round and round.

LillyRush
05-12-2008, 12:21 AM
I guess I got the impression it was "out there" like a YMCA because as soon as we heard Nick had a secret life, someone on IS (probably SilverDove) suggested the WetSpot. It just sounded like it was there around the corner. I'm dying to know what the shingle says outside the door.

I would venture to guess that if someone knows about the "Wet Spot" they are either involved in it themselves or know someone in it who has talked to them about it. Another local person who posts here told me that she's heard about it from an older, divorced (40-something yr old) friend or co-worker that she has. If the "Wet Spot" is using a regular public building for this, then there's likely to be some other sign on the outside. I'll see what I can find out about this.

imnotheonlyone
05-12-2008, 12:33 AM
ETA: Had an afterthought. Could he have been spotted by someone at church who recognized him either from the net or the club and why he left the church so abruptly?[/quote]

I think you're on to something there!

SeriouslySearching
05-12-2008, 12:43 AM
It wouldn't surprise me at all. There are people in all walks of life who pursue their sexuality in ways unapproved by a certain religion who still profess to be of that religion. We see it all the time.

You can find what you want if you really look for it almost anywhere.

If Nicholas did run into someone from church, the question is would he be uncomfortable with it since he was holding onto a secret, too? Was it someone in authority which meant he could be "outed" if they weren't there for the same reasons? (Maybe the church member decided to save a few people coming out of the club, for instance.)

txsvicki
05-12-2008, 12:43 AM
I believe the actual sermon was disputed, but a poster here mentioned that one of the last sermons before the Franciscos resigned from Mars Hill was about sexual sins. Some didn't agree that was the reason for quitting the church, but I'm wondering if it could have had a big part in the decision. To attend and be active in church hearing sermons about sin and putting on a big act could get very tiresome to a person who is secretly living a completely different lifestyle that churches consider to be sinful.

SoManyQuestions
05-12-2008, 12:47 AM
I would venture to guess that if someone knows about the "Wet Spot" they are either involved in it themselves or know someone in it who has talked to them about it. Another local person who posts here told me that she's heard about it from an older, divorced (40-something yr old) friend or co-worker that she has. If the "Wet Spot" is using a regular public building for this, then there's likely to be some other sign on the outside. I'll see what I can find out about this.

They could also be Pagan, go to the science fiction conventions, go to the Merc or the Vogue/Blacklight before it closed, Goth, Capital Hill Art Center, Gay pride parade, read the Stranger or just looking for more info about sex. I'm sure there are other groups that would know about it but I'm blanking on them at the moment.

The building is discrete, but not hidden.


The Center for Sex Positive Culture (formerly known as The Wet Spot) is located at 1602 15th Ave. West (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&cat=&address=1602+15th+Ave+W&city=&state=wa&zipcode=98119), at the corner of 15th Ave. West and West Garfield Street, next to the Magnolia bridge, in the Interbay neighborhood of Seattle. It is a one-story, wheelchair-accessible building, painted white (blue trim) with blue "spot" painted on the front.
The Annex is located next door at 1608 15th Ave. West, in the brown building connected to our main building. You enter the Annex on 15th.
But in the end none of this matters because the LE now have the information and it doesn't sound like they will be telling anything about it.

In the end this is about where Nicholas might have gone the night he vanished.

imnotheonlyone
05-12-2008, 12:48 AM
Has anyone done any Craigslist Seattle research? I'm new to this, and extremely interested and anxious to learn from you all, thank you so much for all that you do here!

LillyRush
05-12-2008, 12:50 AM
I think if Nicholas was on adultfriendfinder or similar places, he wouldn't have necessarily needed to join a specific club like "The Wet Spot". The initially anonymous nature of the internet, imo, could make it even more likely that he'd have accidentally met up w/ someone who had been attending the church or knew him from anywhere else really.

SeriouslySearching
05-12-2008, 12:55 AM
People have definitely been all over Craigslist Seattle for months, Imnot. :)

Jump right in! I learn something new here every day!

LillyRush
05-12-2008, 12:58 AM
The building is discrete, but not hidden.....

Well, I go that way all the time for the Brown Bear Car Wash. I'll see if I notice it the next time I'm around there. Thanks!

SeriouslySearching
05-12-2008, 12:59 AM
I think the Wet Spot was just a very tacky name for a sex club, personally. (And don't get me started about that logo!!) LOL

SoManyQuestions
05-12-2008, 01:01 AM
I think if Nicholas was on adultfriendfinder or similar places, he wouldn't have necessarily needed to join a specific club like "The Wet Spot". The initially anonymous nature of the internet, imo, could make it even more likely that he'd have accidentally met up w/ someone who had been attending the church or knew him from anywhere else really.

From the dates on some of those accounts I think he was on the internet till he found the Wet Spot which made it easier for him to meet up with people in a safe place. Also if he did meet up with someone he knew there would they really out him at the risk of having to out them self? JMO

SoManyQuestions
05-12-2008, 01:02 AM
I think the Wet Spot was just a very tacky name for a sex club, personally. (And don't get me started about that logo!!) LOL

Well it is now the Center for Sexually Positive Culture, but the other is easier to type.

SeriouslySearching
05-12-2008, 01:10 AM
Hmmm SCPC. Sounds a bit like the SPCA with a twist. OK I will stop now.

Back to Nicholas and where he is now. I think we need to be looking for any sign he is selling his erotic photography. To me, it would be logical he would need to be making cash under the table money and since it was mentioned by the person supposedly him...we should be checking it out.

ETA: Nevermind! :blushing: That isn't going to happen!! How about the Erotic Art Festival that was mentioned earlier tho?!

LillyRush
05-12-2008, 01:10 AM
From the dates on some of those accounts I think he was on the internet till he found the Wet Spot which made it easier for him to meet up with people in a safe place. Also if he did meet up with someone he knew there would they really out him at the risk of having to out them self? JMO

I agree that they wouldn't have wanted to out him or make a big production that would draw attention to themselves. But, I imagine it would have been an awkward situation, if say one of the people attended the MH church, etc. That could have been the reason why NF wanted to leave and, of course, he would have come up with another reason when discussing it with Christine.

txsvicki
05-12-2008, 01:15 AM
From the dates on some of those accounts I think he was on the internet till he found the Wet Spot which made it easier for him to meet up with people in a safe place. Also if he did meet up with someone he knew there would they really out him at the risk of having to out them self? JMO

I'd agree that he'd go to places where he could quickly and easily hook up with others who are like minded. The wet spot and AFF would be perfect places. He/HS wanted regular partners and other one time stands, a multitude of sex partners. If HS/Nicholas went to cloud nine to meet then he really placed himself at risk to run into someone else since not all customers would be swingers. The one review I read about AFF said that a group of them met at a regular bar, and this poster remembered enough about the group to be disgusted because he/she thought that they were all "Bu$$ Ugly".

LillyRush
05-12-2008, 01:26 AM
Another thing is that, if he's been doing this for a few years then he's very lucky that he has not run into someone that he knows who could use it against him. Since MH seems to be recruiting a lot, the person could have been a recently new member of MH.

Let's say this person was shedding the swinger lifestyle and repenting for that sin..therefore being open about their past involvement would not have hurt them, since they were seeking a new Christian life. That type of person would not necessarily have any qualms about "outing" someone else or NF may have feared that eventually they would say something.

SoManyQuestions
05-12-2008, 01:30 AM
Hmmm SCPC. Sounds a bit like the SPCA with a twist. OK I will stop now.

Back to Nicholas and where he is now. I think we need to be looking for any sign he is selling his erotic photography. To me, it would be logical he would need to be making cash under the table money and since it was mentioned by the person supposedly him...we should be checking it out.

ETA: Nevermind! :blushing: That isn't going to happen!! How about the Erotic Art Festival that was mentioned earlier tho?!

lol I know what you mean.

Sadly the Erotic Art Festival was March 1st before any of this was thought of.

SoManyQuestions
05-12-2008, 01:34 AM
Another thing is that, if he's been doing this for a few years then he's very lucky that he has not run into someone that he knows who could use it against him. Since MH seems to be recruiting a lot, the person could have been a recently new member of MH.

Let's say this person was shedding the swinger lifestyle and repenting for that sin..therefore being open about their past involvement would not have hurt them, since they were seeking a new Christian life. That type of person would not necessarily have any qualms about "outing" someone else or NF may have feared that eventually they would say something.

Could be or if I remember right a person couldn't leave the church if they were under punishment or something like that. Could be he wanted to leave before he left Christine so the church wouldn't have a hold on him. most likely came up with another excuse for leaving for Christine.

ckhagen
05-12-2008, 01:39 AM
As conservative/traditional a message Mars Hill preaches, I have to say from an outsider's perspective that this church seems to attract many non-traditional people. I don't live too far from the Ballard facility, and many times when I am driving by most if not all of the people coming out and going in are pierced/tattooed/goth looking people. It looks more like they are going to a nightclub than church.

Also, many people I have talked to locally here have heard that MH is the place to go when you are looking for a hookup. May sound odd, but I am only mentioning it since I have heard it from so many people.

I know I will probably take a beating here from the members of the church who are here reading. I don't mean to offend. Also, I know we aren't here to debate MH or religion.

I'm merely suggesting that NF may have even had contacts in the church who were well aware of his activities, and may even perhaps have participated. With as many members as MH claims to have, I would hazard a bet that if NF were frequenting the Wet Spot, or swinging groups, that he would be bound to run into other MH members.




I happen to think quite the opposite. I know exactly what type of church Mars Hill is and while the members are young and hip (which many post-modern type charismatic mega-church members are), I don't think for a single second that anyone else at the church would have known about this behavior, not at all. If anything the opposite... maybe he thought someone found out about it and freaked knowing how totally out of the realm of acceptable this would be and how his reputation would be totally obliterated and his wife and children would be horribly embarrassed.

As far as what people "say" about certain churches, I don't believe 99.9% of it and I don't care how many different people I hear it from because rumors about my own church have been spread time after time without even a remote ounce of truth about them.

About 10 years ago it was "common knowledge" around our town that the members of our churched danced naked in the woods on Tuesday nights. Other people have been told that we have huge cache of weapons and recently someone interested in becoming a member expressed concern about what they had been told... someone told them they had to give the deed to their house to the church!! Seriously, this is the most ridiculous garbage I've ever heard and I can hardly stand the fact that people actually believe whoever is telling them this stuff.

RoseRed
05-12-2008, 01:40 AM
Yes, most people have agreed that it goes on everywhere, whether they're aware of it or not. But, if you look back over the last couple of pages there were at least two people who have tried to make it sound like a Seattle "thing" and that was what I was addressing. Someone even said that they now know why Mars Hill is trying to save the Seattle area and bring it back to God. Then, there was the one that I just addressed about the negative things happening in San Francisco were brought down there from Seattle. That sure sounds to me like someone who's not seeing the big picture and trying to blame the problem on one location. IMO

Oh Lord two posts and I am in trouble already. If you read both my posts you would have seen where I stated I know it happens everywhere.

It is just that I am posting about a case in Seattle and the things I mentioned happened or is happening in Seattle. It seemed like a waste of time for me to mention every city in the world because it does not pertain to this thread.

Any thing I mentioned came from different NF/forums/boards , newspaper articles, and or blogs since Feb. 13th.

I also said I am not trying to judge anyone for their choices so there is no need to chastise me for my thoughts.

Bobbisangel
05-12-2008, 03:12 AM
No one here wanted to entertain the possibility that Nicholas would have visited the Wet Spot club,and maybe used his secret pay pal card at their ATM three minutes after
leaving work on Feb. 13th.!
(I'll bet there is an ATM with a little piece of tape over the camera lens) lol.

Not until our cyber sleuthers uncovered and confirmed Nick's aliases on line were we
finally convinced of what his "secret life" consisted of.

Now, there is no way I believe he left work that Wednesday with "organic sugar" or
baking cookies on his mind!

To me, the simplest case scenario is that he went to the club, after which he drove
to the condo's with a friend from there.

Something went horribly wrong at that point.

Unless his family have heard from him, I think that swamp near the condos should be searched.



That really makes sense to me too. If he drove his own car to those apts and met someone there and they had a date to go for a walk at the lake then there wouldn't be any evidence of foul play in his car. He may have taken his laptop with him so it wouldn't get stolen out of his car or he may have left it in the other person's apt while they went for their little walk. Also, someone from those apts saying that "they don't want to be involved" says to me that they know something but they are going to keep it to themself. I think that something happened in those woods at that lake/swamp area. Seems a body could be thrown anywhere there in those woods or brush and so one would see it from the path. Even throwing it into the water might hide it for a long time.

I was talking to my son and grandson about Nick today and they had both heard of him. My son said "he's dead." He thinks that Nick met someone at the apts too and it ended in foul play. My grandson is Nick's age and my grandson is gay. I wanted to ask him if he had ever seen Nick anywhere as my grandson lives in the outskirts of Seattle. He was telling me about a place him and his friends stopped in for a few minutes last night where they had whips and all kinds of stuff like that. It costs $70.00 to be whipped! My grandson isn't into that stuff but he does go to gay bars. I don't know what all Nick is into but figured it was worth asking if my grandson had ever seen Nick around. I'll have to ask him about this "Wet Spot.

hedleyinseattle
05-12-2008, 03:46 AM
Confirmed . ATM is inside the building. Sorry I just got home and havent' been online til now.

CW
05-12-2008, 03:51 AM
I'm closing this thread and starting a new one.