View Full Version : OH OH - Troy (Miami County) "Buckskin Girl" - WhtFem 133UFOH, 15-25, Apr'81 *GRAPHIC*
Mr. E
12-12-2005, 08:28 PM
http://doenetwork.org/cases/133ufoh.html -- unidentified Ohio victim
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/942dfca.html -- Kimberly Kahler
-- both have red hair
-- both have freckles
-- Kimberly is 5'8; unidentified victim is approx. 5'6
-- Kimberly was 15 in 1980; unidentified victim was believed to be in her late teens
2sisters
12-13-2005, 11:34 PM
The clothes on Jane Doe seem sort of dated for 1981. It could have been all she could find though.Does anyone know how long she had been dead?
Richard
05-16-2008, 06:13 PM
Unidentified White Female
Located on April 24, 1981 in Miami County, Ohio
Cause of death was strangulation, she also had suffered blows to the head and neck.
Estimated Date of Death: April 23, 1981
Vital Statistics
Estimated age: Late teens to mid-20s
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'4"-5'6"; 130 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown eyes; reddish-brown hair plaited into thick pigtails. Her complexion was freckled and ruddy. She was in remarkably good physical condition, with excellent personal hygiene. Her ears were not pierced. Scar on chin.
Dentals: Available. Her teeth were in good condition and she still had all four of her wisdom teeth.
Clothing: She was wearing a brown and orange turtleneck sweater, a size 32 D bra, Wrangler brand jeans and a distinctive handmade suede jacket with a purple satin lining. No shoes.
DNA: Available.
Case History
This young woman's, nicknamed The Buckskin Girl, body was found on Greenlee Road near State Route 55 in rural Miami County, Ohio in April of 1981. A coroner's report revealed that she died of strangulation. She also had suffered blows to the head and neck.
Evidence indicates that the body was transported to the scene from another location. Investigators believe she may have been a runaway or just a wanderer, hitching rides from one state to the next, although it did not appear that she had been on the road very long. She was not sexually assaulted.
Artist's conception drawings of the victim and photos of the victim's clothing appear in the link below.
Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Detective Steve Lord
937-440-3965 ext. 6633
Agency Case Number: 8104240101
NCIC Number: U-990001965
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.
Source Information:
Miami County Jane Doe
Unsolved Mysteries
Dayton Daily News 8/6/07
The Doe Network: Case File 133UFOH
LINK:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/133ufoh.html
jules19osu
06-12-2008, 04:44 PM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/133ufoh.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2051dfoh.html
MidnightQ
06-12-2008, 04:52 PM
How tall is ..."tall for her age"??
There is a 8 year time-gab - and if she was abducted - did he keep her for all those years?
jules19osu
06-12-2008, 04:57 PM
Yeah- I saw the time gap. But I figured it was a possibility. Stranger things have happened!!
Spazkat9696
06-12-2008, 05:15 PM
According to the CDC the average height for a 13 year old girl is 60 - 63 inches or 5' to 5'3". At 5'4" doe is short for an adult. I think it's unlikely she would have stopped growing, but you never know. You should submit it.
chaddylex
07-25-2008, 11:37 PM
Richard,
I've been seeing if I could find a match to this Jane Doe. What do you think of this girl?
I know that the Jane Doe is from Ohio and this girl is from CA, but it's worth a shot.
What does everyone else think?
Thanks
Chaddylex
The Doe Network:
Case File 747DFCA
Rains, circa 1980
Theresa Louise Rains
Missing since May 23, 1980 from Oakland, Alameda County, California.
Classification: Missing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: April 13, 1949
Age at Time of Disappearance: 31 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'6"; 115 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; blue eyes.
Marks: She has freckles.
Clothing: Blue jeans, rust colored coat, lace up boots.
Dentals: Not available
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Circumstances of Disappearance
Rains was last seen in Oakland, California on May 23, 1980.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Oakland Police Department
510-238-3352
E-Mail
Agency Case Number:
80-43773
NCIC Number: M-064685458
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.
Source Information:
California Department of Justice
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to the Unexplained Disappearances' Index
Richard
07-27-2008, 04:43 PM
Richard,
I've been seeing if I could find a match to this Jane Doe. What do you think of this girl?
I know that the Jane Doe is from Ohio and this girl is from CA, but it's worth a shot.
What does everyone else think?
Thanks
Chaddylex
The Doe Network:
Case File 747DFCA
Rains, circa 1980
Theresa Louise Rains
Missing since May 23, 1980 from Oakland, Alameda County, California.
Classification: Missing
...
Here is a link to Doenet's file on Theresa Rains:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/747dfca.html
It certainly is a possibility for a match. Age 31 is not that far off from the estimate, they have similar descriptions and photos as well.
The distance in time (11 months) and geography (California to Ohio) might tend to argue against a match, but it could also be the reason that no connetction has been made between the two cases.
More information needs to be available on Theresa and her possible connections to the Southern Ohio area.
Richard
07-27-2008, 04:45 PM
The following is the March 17, 2001 article by Martha Hardcastle for the Dayton Daily News.
--------------------------------
Officials work on Jane Doe case
Twenty years ago next month, the body of a pigtailed young woman was found on a rural Miami County Road.
Sheriff's deputies there are reexamining the case using today's improved communication tools and technology with hopes of at least identifying the woman, if not her killer too.
On April 24, 1981 a man moving into a residence on Greenlee Road in Newton Twp. saw what appeared to be some clothing on the side of the road. He slowed down and saw the body in the ditch.
The woman was about 5'6" and 130 pounds. She appeared to be in her late teens to mid-20s and her reddish-brown hair was plaited into thick pigtails. Her complexion was freckled and ruddy and she was wearing a brown and orange turtleneck sweater, a size 32 D bra, Wrangler brand jeans and a very distinctive handmade suede jacket with a purple satin lining.
A coroner's report revealed that she died of strangulation. She also had suffered blows to the head. And despite a great deal of media exposure, no one came forward to identify the body.
Miami County's Jane Doe was buried in a Potter's field at Troy's Riverside Cemetery. The case was never closed, although unknown to the MCSO, the case was accidentally dropped from the National Crime Information Center's database for about six years. The case was placed back in NCIC late last year.
Todd Matthews of Livingston Tenn., is an amateur sleuth who solved a 30-year-old unidentified case in Scott County Ky. known as the "Tent Girl" Matthews worked on the case for 10 years before finally finding the identity of Barbara Hackmann Taylor using the Internet in 1998. Matthews, who has aided other police departments including Piqua, has created a website to aid Miami County deputies with their Jane Doe at
http://www.miamicountydoe.mainpage.net/
In the early 1990s, the Sheriff's office participated in a task force trying to solve the serial killings of suspected prostitutes near or on Ohio interstate highways. The area's other long term Jane Doe, a woman found strangled on I-70 at the Hoke Road eastbound onramp in Englewood in 1987 was also part of that task force.
Det. Tom Wheeler has been assigned to the case, and he believes that maybe today he will be able to identify the woman.
"Without knowing who she is, we don't have a chance to find out who killed her," he said. He has also sent information to America's Most Wanted
and Unsolved Mysteries in hope that they will feature the case. He also isn't convinced that she was necessarily a prostitute. The woman was in remarkably good physical condition.
"Her teeth were in excellent condition and she had a plate," Wheeler said. "She was a very well-kept person."
LINK:
http://www.geocities.com/miamicountydoe/JaneDoe.html
chaddylex
07-27-2008, 11:33 PM
Should I contact the Doe Network on the possible match? Maybe if this is a match she could of ended up in Ohio by Hitchhiking or being kidnapped. Who knows? Just my thoughts......
Chaddylex
laini
07-28-2008, 12:29 AM
Chaddylex-
I think you should check with doenetwork if this has been ruled out. I see similarities. The type of clothes, hair, complexion, and they both have round cheeks/round face. Sometimes when a missing person doesn't have much info about them (such as Teresa's doe page), I wonder if it is because the may have been a run-away so there aren't many details. It would be interesting to find more info on Teresa's disappearance.
chaddylex
07-28-2008, 09:58 AM
I just contacted (by email) Rocky Wells of the Doe Network on the potential match. I figured it couldn't hurt??? I tried to email the Oakland California Police Dept (Oakland is where Theresa Rains was missing from) and it was I guess an old email address, because it came back to me undeliverable. Hopefully I get a response soon and I will let you all know!! Thanks everyone!!
Chaddylex
tatertot
02-17-2009, 04:08 AM
Have you heard anything about Theresa Rains, Chaddylex? She looks very young for 30 so that might explain the age difference. The eyes don't match (Buckskin Girl's were brown and Theresa's were blue) but Theresa's description is so sparse her eye color might have been a guess by whoever reported her missing.
I can't find any missing person who looks much like Buckskin Girl. In her post-mortem photo her freckles are very noticeable and I can't imagine anyone NOT mentioning them when describing her.
**WARNING: POST-MORTEM PHOTO AT THIS LINK**
http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200300439S
She was wearing a fringed leather jacket, bell bottoms and pigtails (her hair looks like it would have been rather long when unbraided) and that "free spirit" look seems like it would have been a bit unusual for 1981. Can anyone confirm whether these clothes would have stood out? It's amazing that nobody remembered seeing her especially wearing that jacket.
Also, what did Det. Wheeler mean when he said "she had a plate?" She had dentures of some sort? None of her descriptions mention dentures.
tatertot
02-20-2009, 10:41 AM
The circumstances don't match, but I think I see some resemblance between the Buckskin Girl and Sharon Pretorius:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2051dfoh.html
and
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59731
Sharon was 13 when she went missing in September 1973 and frequently wore her brown hair in braided pigtails. She would have been about 21 when the Buckskin Girl was found. No height is given but she was described as tall for her age.
The Buckskin Girl was thought to be 18-25 when she was found in April 1981 and had braided brown/reddish hair pigtails. She was 5'6" which would have been somewhat tall if she'd reached that height by 13.
IMO their noses and hairlines look similar. BG's freckles are quite noticeable but Sharon's picture is a little too blurry to tell if she has any. Could they have darkened or increased in number if she'd been outside a lot since her disappearance? Their chins do look different (Sharon's looks longer) but BG's head seems to be tilted forward and resting on a pillow or towel in her autopsy photo and that may have made her chin appear shorter. (Try looking in a mirror...I noticed a big difference.)
Dayton is 22 miles from Troy, Ohio where BG was found.
MadeaBecBec
05-12-2009, 10:29 PM
Tatertot; Did you submit Sharon Pretorius as a possible? One would think that with all the media exposure on BG, her family would've been asked to possibly look at photos or sketches.. :waitasec: Still, you never know!! I know Sharons family had a memorial service for her in 2006, but, I don't believe they have completely given up on finding her....Here's a side by side of Pretorius and BG below....
Is there a thread for BG on the Unidentified?
The circumstances don't match, but I think I see some resemblance between the Buckskin Girl and Sharon Pretorius:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2051dfoh.html
and
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59731
Sharon was 13 when she went missing in September 1973 and frequently wore her brown hair in braided pigtails. She would have been about 21 when the Buckskin Girl was found. No height is given but she was described as tall for her age.
The Buckskin Girl was thought to be 18-25 when she was found in April 1981 and had braided brown/reddish hair pigtails. She was 5'6" which would have been somewhat tall if she'd reached that height by 13.
IMO their noses and hairlines look similar. BG's freckles are quite noticeable but Sharon's picture is a little too blurry to tell if she has any. Could they have darkened or increased in number if she'd been outside a lot since her disappearance? Their chins do look different (Sharon's looks longer) but BG's head seems to be tilted forward and resting on a pillow or towel in her autopsy photo and that may have made her chin appear shorter. (Try looking in a mirror...I noticed a big difference.)
Dayton is 22 miles from Troy, Ohio where BG was found.
Angel4Alpha
06-23-2009, 12:53 AM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/133ufoh.html
This this might be a possible if she was a runaway after several years? I think she looks like the UID:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2051dfoh.html
she would be around the same age as the UID in that time frame too.
There are some variances in those sketches.
She looks similarly to parts of the sketches. It definitely is an interesting connection. Do you know if they have been compared before? Both have DNA available. And Sharon has dental records. No mention on the UID. Did Sharon have freckles and a ruddy complexion? That could have also come with sun exposure (I am fair and freckle with exposed to a lot of sun).
The time line is interesting because it appears the UID was found after a day. And Sharon went missing 8 years before. That it's far fetched to assume she was a runaway, abducted or something else between then. The age makes sense. Sharon was 13, and the UID is thought to be late teens to early 20s. That fits. So does height and weight. Eye colors are off but that's not, but that's not enough to exclude her.
One thing that stood out was the UID was said to have excellent hygiene and be in excellent physical condition. Yet she was thought to be a runaway or a transient. The two usually do not go hand in hand. It said they thought she had been on the road for long. But I wonder what lead them to this conclusion?
Lady Stardust
06-23-2009, 05:17 AM
There is already a thread on this UID:
"The Buckskin Girl" Jane Doe Located 24 April 1981 in Miami County, OH - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Sharon Pretorius is mentioned there as a possible match as well, but it isn't stated if the two have been compared.
stellameredith
06-23-2009, 01:21 PM
Hey - I saw the new thread and came over here. Can anyone report if they have compared Sharon Pretorius?
I personally don't think that it's her, based on time. But it would be good to know if they name has been submitted. And I can see some similarities in the side by side, especially with the shape of the nose.
I would like to know more details of the autopsy. Had the UID had a child? Can we see dental charts?
chaddylex
06-23-2009, 03:56 PM
Have you heard anything about Theresa Rains, Chaddylex? She looks very young for 30 so that might explain the age difference. The eyes don't match (Buckskin Girl's were brown and Theresa's were blue) but Theresa's description is so sparse her eye color might have been a guess by whoever reported her missing.
Tatertot,
I sent Rocky at Doe Network an email last July to ask him about the match to Theresa Rains, and I don't remember if he emailed me back. I just sent an email to the Oakland Police Dept to see what they have to say and hopefully I will hear something back soon.
Stellameredith,
As far as the UID being compared to Sharon Pretorius, I have no idea if she was compared. I looked on the Namus.gov website to see if they listed names of people that were ruled out and they did not with her. (they have done that to a few UID's) -
Tatertot, do you send a match to anyone?
stellameredith
06-23-2009, 04:54 PM
I have been thinking about this one. It seems like she would be fairly easy to ID, given her pretty striking features.
1. Very thin, shaped eyebrows. It's obvious that she did quite a bit of plucking.
2. Striking freckles on her face.
3. Horizontal chin scar. I had a friend growing up who had a similar scar from falling on concrete while roller skating.
4. Thick auburn hair.
5. Tan birthmark on her thigh.
6. She had large breasts.
I do wish we could see dental charts to see what her teeth would have looked like if she was smiling. It would be nice to know if she actually wore a plate or had partial dentures.
The detectives don't necessarily think she was a prostitute, and I don't either. I wonder is the possibility of her being a victim of a carjacking was looked into? She wasn't wearing shoes, but otherwise she was dressed for a chilly day. Maybe she was a passenger in a car that was stolen? Were there any other bodies reported around that same time in the same area? Maybe a driver?
Another possibility is that she was killed by someone who knew her well enough to want to keep her dignity by letting her remain fully clothed even while dumping her body. It looks like something that was done quickly, in haste, and they never thought to take the awesome jacket - or maybe it had too much blood on it...
ThePalmettoState
06-24-2009, 02:04 PM
This person and this case is what brought me here. I am trying to locate a photo of a missing woman from my area. I believe I have the newspaper article and I am searching for it. She seems earily close. Will be back as soon as I can with more information.
stellameredith
06-24-2009, 04:41 PM
Cool, Palmettocase. I look forward to seeing what you have. I'm sure everyone else does too!
chaddylex
06-24-2009, 10:34 PM
Me too Palmetto! Someone has to know this girl......
ThePalmettoState
06-25-2009, 01:19 AM
Okay I am working on it. You know this may not be a match but it just so much sticks out to me. I went to the local newspaper today to get a 2005 copy of a paper on this and I came back to check some things and I will be going back to get one from 1981. They did not even have a book of the 2005 newspapers. Amazing. I did not know what to say about that...lol I may also hit up the library but I think those are all on microfilm. I of course moved and can not locate my copy of the paper.
chaddylex
06-25-2009, 09:26 AM
Anything is worth a shot, she has been unidentified for this long, it's just nice to be able to keep her case known so people can not forget about her and find her true identity.
Richard
09-13-2009, 03:12 PM
Bumping this case up. It is somewhat unusual in that this girl was obviously healthy, well dressed, and well groomed, yet nobody has reported her missing.
Many questions come to mind.
She was not aparently violated sexually, yet she was strangled and beaten.
She had no shoes on, or nearby.
She was found in a rural area within about 24 hours of being killed.
What were the weather conditions for that time and place?
Where exactly was she found and what places were nearby, such as highways, bars, shopping centers, colleges, etc.?
What other similar crimes had taken place before and after in adjacent statres or counties?
What day of the week was it? What was the moon phase? What holidays were occurring and were schools out for spring break?
KarlK
09-13-2009, 07:09 PM
She was wearing a fringed leather jacket, bell bottoms and pigtails (her hair looks like it would have been rather long when unbraided) and that "free spirit" look seems like it would have been a bit unusual for 1981. Can anyone confirm whether these clothes would have stood out? It's amazing that nobody remembered seeing her especially wearing that jacket.
I guess it depends on location. I graduated from high school in '81 and back then in my area (I was living in southern California at the time) there were many kids my age who were going through a sort of hippie revival stage, as well as some 30-year-olds who hadn't quit the lifestyle yet. Around my area her clothes would not have raised an eyebrow but I imagine it was different in a rural part of Ohio. Since no one there recalled noticing her one could assume her body was just dumped there by someone passing through.
Richard
09-14-2009, 12:01 PM
Easter 1981 occurred on April 19, a few days before Buckskin Girl was murdered.
She was found on Friday, 24 April, and death was estimated to have occurred 24 to 48 hours prior, which would have meant that she was killed on either:
Wednesday, 22 April 1981 or
Thursday, 23 April 1981
It is quite possible that she was a college student on spring break when she was murdered.
Although one might think that she was dressed somewhat in a "hippie" style, I do not think that. Her buckskin jacket was nothing like the Western Style of fringed jacket which was popular at the time. It looks much more like an authentic American Indian item of apparel.
Wrangler jeans were worn "long and leggy" in 1981, as advertised in a Fall 1980 Sears and Roebuck catalog. Wrangler was a very popular brand name at the time. Jeans then were worn rather high waisted, close to the skin, creased front and back, and down to about an inch above the top of the heel, cut straight across and not breaking at the top of the foot. In other words a bit higher than hippies usually wore them.
The pull over turtleneck shirt is somewhat unique. I wonder if it was ever traced by LE as to place and date of manufacture, or distribution. The colors of brown and orange are definitely late 70's or early 80's style, but probably the shirt was something seen in the fall and winter catalogs and stores.
The information does not say whether she had been going barefoot prior to her death, but I would doubt it. April in Ohio is not a super warm time and her other clothing seems to indicate that she was dressed fairly warmly with long pants, long sleeves and a jacket. My feeling is that she might have been wearing moccasins, leather shoes, or even leather boots with her outfit. Where are they?
What personal effects did she have on her? Had she been robbed? What other items of clothing might she have been wearing? Knowing the weather for the days in question might help here.
I feel, based on her braided hair and jacket that she might have either been Native American/American Indian. Or she might have had a strong interest in Indians - perhaps a student of anthropology or of early American History/Prehistory.
KarlK
09-14-2009, 03:19 PM
Although one might think that she was dressed somewhat in a "hippie" style, I do not think that. Her buckskin jacket was nothing like the Western Style of fringed jacket which was popular at the time. It looks much more like an authentic American Indian item of apparel.
"Hippies" or people referred to as such in the late 70's/early 80's did not necessarily have a dress code that was restricted to late 1960's styles, in fact such people often only wore "hippie" tops with regular jeans or even hot pants (for girls). Some of those people still wore ponchos but others among the free spirited preferred Native apparel, East European shirts or, of course, the then ubiquitous lumberjack garb :D
This girl does not seem to be Native (facial freckles are rare in non-Caucasians) but she could have been a mixed-blood or, like you mention, merely interested in Native culture. By itself this could hint that she came from western states or Canada, areas where Native culture is more present and accessible. I imagine she's been checked against lists of missing Canadians at the time?
Or maybe the jacket was simply purchased at a souvenir shop. I wear a Russian hat with ear flaps in winter, some also call it an aviator hat, but that doesn't make me a Russian or an aviator. I wear it because winters are cold in Maine :)
Richard
09-14-2009, 09:33 PM
"Hippies" or people referred to as such in the late 70's/early 80's did not necessarily have a dress code that was restricted to late 1960's styles...
Or maybe the jacket was simply purchased at a souvenir shop. I wear a Russian hat with ear flaps in winter, some also call it an aviator hat, but that doesn't make me a Russian or an aviator. I wear it because winters are cold in Maine :)
I think that being a hippie is more a state of mind than anything else. The point that I was trying to make is that this young girl did have an eye for a style or fashion, considering her good grooming and choice of wardrobe. She seems dressed for casual travel, but is lacking shoes/boots, a hat, and probably a bag of some sort.
Your ear-flap hat is called a "Chopka" in Russian. I too favor them for cold weather. It brings to mind the dialogue in the movie "Uncle Buck" in which John Candy wears such a hat to drive his neices and nephew to school:
"Do you think she hates me?"
"With a passion!"
"Do you think it's the hat? A lot of people hate this hat, you know. It angers them, just the sight of it. I'll tell you a story about that sometime..."
KarlK
09-14-2009, 11:28 PM
I think that being a hippie is more a state of mind than anything else. The point that I was trying to make is that this young girl did have an eye for a style or fashion, considering her good grooming and choice of wardrobe. She seems dressed for casual travel, but is lacking shoes/boots, a hat, and probably a bag of some sort.
Yes, she was not your typical wanderer. This makes it even more mysterious that no one ever reported her missing, or perhaps she was but no one made the connection.
Your ear-flap hat is called a "Chopka" in Russian. I too favor them for cold weather.
Some also call it a "chapska" I believe. Up here state troopers and various police dept's often wear such a hat in winter instead of the standard police cap, and it's become pretty common among civilian men as well.
Regarding media references to this hat I would like to make it clear that it looks nothing like that idiotic 20-inch hat that George Costanza wore in one episode of Seinfeld. I can't imagine anyone wearing that in public.
tatertot
12-03-2009, 11:06 AM
*Bumping* Thanks, Richard and KarlK, for the clarification on clothing styles. Richard, I also suspect that her shoes might have been moccasins or boots; they would match her style of dress.
Sorry I haven't visited this thread in a while, but I submitted Sharon Pretorius as a possible match today and will let you know as soon as I get a reply.
I bet this would be an easy solve if LE could do a hair analysis test to see where she was from. Once we knew, we could put out a "Do you know me? Did you go to high school with me in the late 70s/early 80s?" notice on Facebook to anyone from that region who would have been around her age in 1981. Chances are someone would recognize her from their yearbook photos.
nerosleuth
12-06-2009, 08:25 PM
Easter 1981 occurred on April 19, a few days before Buckskin Girl was murdered.
She was found on Friday, 24 April, and death was estimated to have occurred 24 to 48 hours prior, which would have meant that she was killed on either:
Wednesday, 22 April 1981 or
Thursday, 23 April 1981
It is quite possible that she was a college student on spring break when she was murdered.
If she was 18, it could be possible that she was a High School student, most likely in her Senior year of high school.
A lot of public schools in Ohio were on Easter or Spring break during that week back in April of 1981.
Miami County, Ohio is North of Dayton, Ohio. I-75 runs thru Miami County. Miami County is also about 35 miles from the Indiana border and about 65 miles from the Kentucky border.
HockeyGirl
12-07-2009, 02:10 PM
Hi, I'm brand new to this forum.
This case has interested me for quite awhile, I'm from this area of Ohio, and every so often this case is brought up again on local news channels. I have a thought on this, which most likely won't help this case at all, but I felt the urge to post anyway.
Several references were made to her style of clothing. I wonder if instead of being a "hippie", if she were interested in Native American history? The reason this came to me was because of the area she was found in. There are many Native mounds and earthworks in the area, there is a large one in Enon, which is not too far from where she was found.
If she were a college student doing research or even just interested in the mounds, there is a big chance that is why she was in the area. Many of these mounds and earthworks are in out of the way locations and are in forested regions, that could be a reason why nobody in the area remembered seeing her around.
I would be interested to know if anyone from colleges that have courses on NA history or archeology have been shown her sketch.
Thank you in advance for reading my rambling.
nerosleuth
12-07-2009, 06:35 PM
HockeyGirl, welcome to the forum! We're glad to have you here. :woohoo:
You have an interesting theory. I haven't thought about indian mounds, but you're correct, there are plenty of indian mounds in Ohio.
If she was a college student, I think the chances are good that she could be a college student from Ohio, Indiana, or Kentucky.
I have a question regarding the Buckskin Girl. When her body was found back in 1981, did the police ever release her morgue photo to the news media when they couldn't identify her?
Richard
12-08-2009, 12:20 AM
Hi, I'm brand new to this forum.
This case has interested me for quite awhile, I'm from this area of Ohio, and every so often this case is brought up again on local news channels. I have a thought on this, which most likely won't help this case at all, but I felt the urge to post anyway.
Several references were made to her style of clothing. I wonder if instead of being a "hippie", if she were interested in Native American history? ....
Welcome to the forum. I think that you may be correct in regard to this girl having an interest or background in Native American culture and clothing.
I have always felt that the deer skin jacket looks more like those I have seen in places like the American Indian museum in Washington DC than like anything that the hippies used to wear.
I would suggest to the police investigators that it might be worth while contacting the Smithsonian American Indian Museum to see if anyone could look at the jacket and other items to determine if it might be Native American and if so what tribal association or geographical location it might be connected with.
tatertot
12-08-2009, 07:36 AM
I got a reply yesterday from Steve Lord, Miami County PD:
The lab called me back and confirmed that both our Jane Doe and Sharon Pretorius are in the CODIS system. They cannot be a match based on DNA.
I sent him a thank-you for the quick reply.
HockeyGirl, it's good to hear from someone local to the area. It sounds likely she could have been researching Native American history, whether it was for a high school senior project, a college assignment or for personal interest. Spring Break would have been a good time to get away for a few days, and she might have hitched a ride if she lacked a car.
Her complexion was noted as "freckled and ruddy" (ruddy means reddened) and it wasn't believed she was on the road for long, so I wonder if the redness was from the wind and/or sun exposure and from being outside for longer than she was used to.
Here are two ideas that are a little more far-fetched:
a) Could she have been a "living history" re-enactor? Were there any such events in the area? People travel everywhere for those; I once met a young guy who traveled to Ren fairs by Greyhound bus and performed as a juggler. If she was from far away and hadn't been in Ohio for long, that would explain why nobody from the area recognized her, and if the living history camp was a traveling exhibit and she didn't show up in the next town, maybe they assumed she'd gone home and didn't see any cause for alarm.
For example, there's a "Fair at New Boston" living history camp only 40 minutes from Troy but it looks like it was first held in 1983, two years after BG was found: http://www.fairatnewboston.org/index.html
b) Could she have been mistakenly targeted by someone who preyed on Native American women? I seem to remember someone had preyed on Native women in Canada but I can't recall exactly when...
HockeyGirl
12-08-2009, 07:47 PM
Thank you very much for the welcome!:dance:
Nerosleuth, to the best that I can remember, I don't think I have ever seen her PM photos, in the newspapers or on the news channels themselves, the only "photo" I can remember seeing is a sketch. I'll try to g oback through old newspapers here to see if I can find more info from when she was originally found.
Richard, that is a really good idea, there is a rather large native learning and cultural center, in Chillicothe, Ohio, I would love to see what they would have to say about her jacket.
Tatertot, your first idea about her being a living history re-enactor isn't that far fetched. There is a outdoor drama about the life of the Shawnee war chief Blue Jacket, located in Greene County Ohio, which is not far at all from Miami County. Tecumseh is another large outdoor drama held in Chillicothe.There are also huge Pow Wows held several times a year in nearby Warren County at a large mound group. Also the University of Cincinnati, at one time anyway, had programs for grade schools in which a re-enactor would go to local schools and teach about the local tribes.
I'm not sure about anyone praying on NA women, but I would be happy to try to research this.
I hope I have helped in some way, I'll try to see what I can do about asking about re-enactments in the area, and see if I can find info for Pow Wows, in Warren County around that time.
tatertot
02-22-2010, 11:59 PM
Elaine Robertson, missing May 27, 1979 from Mt. Rainier in Tacoma, WA, was added today to Charley Project.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/robertson_elaine.html
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/4998/
* Both women were 130 lbs., 5'6."
* Robertson was 24 when she went missing in '79 and would have been a few weeks shy of 26 in April '81.
* They seem to have similar hairlines.
* Robertson was "incoherent" and wandering when she was last seen. This doesn't seem to match with a well-maintained woman murdered nearly two years later, but it's hard to say for sure.
* There is DNA for BG and Robertson's is pending.
* Robertson doesn't appear to have freckles but if she had very light ones that didn't show up in her black & white photo, could they have gotten darker if she was on the road for two years?
* Eyes: hazel vs. brown
Does anyone else see any facial resemblance or something I missed that would be an obvious ruleout? Thanks!
Also, the various sketches of BG on Doe Network contradict each other. Her hairline is a widow's peak (point downward) in some and a center part in others. I can't tell from her post-mortem if she does have a widow's peak or if that is another bloodstain on her forehead -- anyone?
CarlK90245
02-23-2010, 01:19 AM
Elaine Robertson, missing May 27, 1979 from Mt. Rainier in Tacoma, WA, was added today to Charley Project.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/robertson_elaine.html
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/4998/
I have a feeling that Elaine Robertson was put on all of the MP sites by San Bernadino CA authorities, who also put Sarah Tokier's profile up on the same day. It appears to me that these two were probably submitted from somewhere as possible matches to Rancho Cucamonga Jane Doe (Doe Case #633UFCA). Both Robertson and Tokier bear a resemblance to RCJD. (although Tokier looks more like RCJD than does Robertson).
FWIW - I did a reconstruction of the Buckskin Girl a couple of months ago. I didn't think the drawings on her DoeNet page were that close, so I did one of my own.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeeth3_zps537f098e-1_zpsbae44bd1.jpghttp://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Postmortem%20Photos/BuckskinGirlPostmortem_zpsd80eed1e.jpg
I had originally depicted her in a buckskin jacket, but I couldn't get a good photo of the jacket that she was wearing, and the only ones shown on the internet bear no resemblance to her jacket. So I depicted her in her distinctive turtleneck sweater instead.
I sent it in to Doe Net, and said that they could use it if they wanted. They have used a few others that I have done, but they have not gotten back to me on this one.
karefree
02-25-2010, 01:33 AM
I have to agree with Richard:
Although one might think that she was dressed somewhat in a "hippie" style, I do not think that. Her buckskin jacket was nothing like the Western Style of fringed jacket which was popular at the time. It looks much more like an authentic American Indian item of apparel.
Along with the buckskin shirt, it doesn't resemble a pancho at all to me, and the braids, it looks like authentic American Indian apparel. I wonder if there was a Pow Wow in the area at the time.
Richard
02-25-2010, 05:35 AM
This thread was not merged, but simply moved in its entirety from Cold Cases to this place. Unfortunately, there is no indication in Cold Cases where it was moved to. My origional posting and title did not include any "graphic image" as the new title might indicate. My origional title to this thread was changed upon its transfer to this forum.
CarlK90245
02-25-2010, 10:22 AM
I requested the graphic image warning and made the "merge" request after I had posted the postmortem photo of "Buckskin Jane". I made the same request for the Crystal Rae (Racine WI) thread. I thought (apparently incorrectly) that there was a Buckskin Jane thread in the Unidentified forum to merge it to. But nevertheless, I thought the "Unidentified" forum was a more appropriate place for this discussion.
My apologies if I stepped on your toes by requesting the move.
HockeyGirl
02-25-2010, 08:37 PM
Carl, you did a great job with the reconstruction, it really looks far more like her than the one that was published.
This case really bothers me. One thing that has always struck me, is her eyebrows, they are plucked, shaped, and tidy, I don't think she was someone who was abducted or if she was I don't think it was a prolonged abduction. This has always felt like she was in the wrong place at the wrong time to me.
CarlK90245
02-25-2010, 09:12 PM
Carl, you did a great job with the reconstruction, it really looks far more like her than the one that was published.
This case really bothers me. One thing that has always struck me, is her eyebrows, they are plucked, shaped, and tidy, I don't think she was someone who was abducted or if she was I don't think it was a prolonged abduction. This has always felt like she was in the wrong place at the wrong time to me.
Thanks, HockeyGirl for the prop.
I agree that she was probably not held for long. My take is that she was probably a free-spirit type (not to be confused with a hippie), perhaps a college student who was interested in the Native American culture, who had to hitchhike around to see the various sites of cultural importance, and caught a ride with the wrong guy.
The thought entered my mind that maybe someone from the Native American community didn't appreciate a Caucasion woman co-opting their culture, and saw her as a "wannabe". I'm not sure that I can totally buy into that theory though. I think the hitchhiker scenario is more plausible.
HockeyGirl
02-26-2010, 07:41 PM
I agree that she was probably not held for long. My take is that she was probably a free-spirit type (not to be confused with a hippie), perhaps a college student who was interested in the Native American culture, who had to hitchhike around to see the various sites of cultural importance, and caught a ride with the wrong guy.
The thought entered my mind that maybe someone from the Native American community didn't appreciate a Caucasion woman co-opting their culture, and saw her as a "wannabe". I'm not sure that I can totally buy into that theory though. I think the hitchhiker scenario is more plausible.
You're welcome!
I agree, there are several large and important burial & ceremonial mounds in the area she was found in.
I don't see it as being a Native American who killed because she was a 'wannabe", the Shawnee still have a cultral center not too far from there, and they are really appreciative of people from tryng to learn and understand there culture, but then again anything is possible I'm sad to say.
dsntslp
02-26-2010, 09:10 PM
I think it is possible she had no shoes on because she had been in an 18 wheeler. A lot of truck drivers treat the inside of their cabs as one would their home. Take your shoes off at the door or change into slippers if your shoes are muddy (April showers?). She may have also been in the sleeper sleeping (obviously with her shoes off) and felt safe while the only other person in the truck was driving. The driver may have pulled over at some point later and...well, you guys get the point. I think you may be looking at a hitch hiker.
ETA: If this was team operation, two drivers as a team, she would have definitely been told to take her shoes off and hop in the bunk. There is no place else to sit.
tatertot
03-01-2010, 02:03 PM
That's a great reconstruction, Carl.
Leather and suede jackets eventually take on a sheen from body oils and general wear and tear, especially at the collar and sleeves. Has LE ever looked into whether the jacket appeared to be nearly new, suggesting she had recently obtained it, or had she been wearing it a long time? It might be worth checking at the Shawnee cultural center to see if anyone recognizes the jacket (that purple satin lining sounds distinctive) or her.
CarlK90245
03-01-2010, 02:09 PM
That's a great reconstruction, Carl.
Leather and suede jackets eventually take on a sheen from body oils and general wear and tear, especially at the collar and sleeves. Has LE ever looked into whether the jacket appeared to be nearly new, suggesting she had recently obtained it, or had she been wearing it a long time? It might be worth checking at the Shawnee cultural center to see if anyone recognizes the jacket (that purple satin lining sounds distinctive) or her.
I think that it said the jacket was "homemade". But I would guess that "homemade" could include those that are handmade by tribal craftsmen and sold on the reservations.
justthinkin
03-01-2010, 10:34 PM
I check in here every once in awhile. Wanted to add my ditto to your great reconstruction, CarlK.
That jacket looks like it was made by native person. I'm from Texas, and I've seen plenty of C & W suede jackets at the livestock shows and rodeos. Doesn't look like those at all, IMHO.
lotsofdogs2
03-02-2010, 09:58 AM
Hi,
This is my first post here. The jacket interested me as well. I googled buckskin jacket and I found the picture below on ebay. I e-mailed the seller for info and he replied that there was a white tag inside the jacket that said "made in mexico". That was the only information he had on the jacket. I believe it's the same jacket, in better condition. I found another one made identical just in a different color and have emailed that seller to see what if any info they can provide. I don't know if this helps, but I'll keep searching for info on the jacket.
Thanks for letting me share,
Jen
scuseme
03-02-2010, 04:41 PM
wow! that looks exactly like it lotsofdogs2! Great find.
CarlK90245
03-02-2010, 06:46 PM
Thanks lotsofdogs - Now, with a few modifications I can portray her in her full outfit.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithcoatfullfigure_zps70898ce2-1_zpsca529356.jpg
lotsofdogs2
03-02-2010, 08:03 PM
Wow Carl! That's awesome. I've searched extensively for more info on the jacket. I'm beginning to think it was more of a frontier/mountain man style than Native American. I don't think it was a one of a kind though. I've found several like it when searching for vintage western clothing. Tomorrow I'm going to email a couple of vintage clothing resellers and see if they have any info. I don't know why, but I have this feeling she was from the Northwest. The jackets like this that I found for sale were all in that vicinity.
justthinkin
03-02-2010, 09:57 PM
Please check this woman out, Beverly England, and see what you think. She's a little older, but I think she looks very much like Buckskin Jane's morgue photo. Unfoprtunately, there's little info to go on this one, no height, no weight. She disappeared from Salido, CO in June of 1980. Apparently took off with someone leaving her kids behind. That's kind of discouraging because there's no mention of Buckskin Jane as having previously given birth. Then too, there's no mention of her jewelry, and it's clear in the morgue photo that she's wearing earrings.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/england_beverly.html
JupiterAmmon
03-02-2010, 10:22 PM
There seems to be a resemblance to me, especially in the mouth and nose, as well as the chin and face shape (although the morgue photo seems to be more rounded, possibly swollen?). I wish there was more info to go off like Beverley's height and weight.
CarlK90245
03-02-2010, 11:52 PM
Please check this woman out, Beverly England, and see what you think. She's a little older, but I think she looks very much like Buckskin Jane's morgue photo. Unfoprtunately, there's little info to go on this one, no height, no weight. She disappeared from Salido, CO in June of 1980. Apparently took off with someone leaving her kids behind. That's kind of discouraging because there's no mention of Buckskin Jane as having previously given birth. Then too, there's no mention of her jewelry, and it's clear in the morgue photo that she's wearing earrings.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/england_beverly.html
There are some similarities, but the one thing that jumps out at me as different is the cheekbones. BE has fairly prominent cheekbones. Buckskin Girl has virtually no cheekbone definition.
justthinkin
03-03-2010, 12:29 AM
CarlK,
The way Beverly England's hair is draped on her face could make it appear as if she has strong cheek bones, but I'm not so sure they are all that prominent. BTW, Carl your photoshop work is of great help!
JA, you are seeing the same things I'm seeing. And you are right, her face is heavily swollen.
Guys, I think BE is worth submitting. I briefly looked to see if there was anything out there on the web about her, but didn't find anything.
I will wait before submitting Beverly England to see if anyone else chimes in.
Did anyone ever submit the Rains girl, Teresa? I thought she was worth submitting.
CarlK90245
03-03-2010, 04:15 AM
The way Beverly England's hair is draped on her face could make it appear as if she has strong cheek bones, but I'm not so sure they are all that prominent.
It's not so much that Beverly's cheekboness are prominent as it is that Buckskin Girl's cheekbones lack prominence. You can see it more on her right side that her cheekbones don't extend at all beyond her temple or even much beyond the outer edge of her eye socket.
But that is JMHO - Don't let me dissuade you from pursuing it if you think there is something there.
Did anyone ever submit the Rains girl, Teresa? I thought she was worth submitting.
Here's the side-by-side on Teresa Raines.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/rains_theresa.html
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Missing%20Persons%20Photos/2166192200045078242S425x425Q851_zps21903063.jpghtt p://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Postmortem%20Photos/BuckskinGirlPostmortem_zpsd80eed1e.jpg
chaddylex
03-03-2010, 09:17 AM
Carl,
I submitted Theresa Rains last year and she was not a match. I thought I was on to something with her too!! Let me find the thread that I posted that on about her...
chaddylex
03-03-2010, 09:30 AM
I know I submitted Teresa to Rocky Wells at the Doe Network, and I am almost positive that he said she wasn't a match, (but I can't find his email that he sent me back)
The Oakland PD never emailed me back..
If someone else wants to submit just to double check feel free to!!
LovinTK
03-03-2010, 02:15 PM
Has anyone mentioned Louise Davis? I know her eyebrows are completely different but her face shape seems similar to me.
http://charleyproject.org/cases/d/davis_louise.html
justthinkin
03-03-2010, 02:51 PM
It's not so much that Beverly's cheekboness are prominent as it is that Buckskin Girl's cheekbones lack prominence. You can see it more on her right side that her cheekbones don't extend at all beyond her temple or even much beyond the outer edge of her eye socket.
But that is JMHO - Don't let me dissuade you from pursuing it if you it think there is something there.
Thanks, Carl, I do see what you are saying. The one thing that keeps me pursuing this, and I do think I will submit Beverly today, is that it was mentioned that Buckskin girl has a horizontal scar on her chin, and it appears Beverly does too. That's enough to give this a try IMHO.
I have now given the Chaffee County Sheriff's office a call re: Beverly as possible match for Buckskin Jane. Am waiting on one of their dectives to call me back. I will post any updates.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2599dfco.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/133ufoh.html
justthinkin
03-04-2010, 07:52 PM
Bummer. Chaffee County has dentals on Beverly England, and the detective let me know they do not match Buckskin Jane. Back to the drawing board.
WmHersey
03-04-2010, 08:57 PM
People would do well to check eye colour before submitting matches. I believe the jane doe had brown eyes not blue.
CarlK90245
03-04-2010, 09:04 PM
Here is a side-view of Buckskin Girl that I had never seen before, along with a much clearer frontal view.
I am not sure if the photos were just posted, or if I just missed them, but I had never seen them in NamUs before.
https://identifyus.org/cases/4790
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Postmortem%20Photos/2089688480045078242S425x425Q851_zps38a9a17b.jpghtt p://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Postmortem%20Photos/BuckskinGirlPostmortem_zpsd80eed1e.jpg
The side view gives you a much different perspective of what she looked like. I didn't realize that she had such a pointy nose.
They also have a real clear photo of the buckskin jacket. I guess that means that I will have to revise the full-bodied reconstruction of her.
BTW justthinkin, as you get rule-outs from L.E. you should update our "Ruled Out" thread.
CarlK90245
03-04-2010, 09:43 PM
... and another thing - The dental charts say that she was missing her upper right front tooth (#8) antemortem (i.e., before she died), and she only had one tooth restoration (although they neglected to note which tooth was restored). So you can exclude any possibles that indicate multiple fillings or no missing teeth .
justthinkin
03-05-2010, 01:45 AM
Here is a side-view of Buckskin Girl that I had never seen before, along with a much clearer frontal view.
I am not sure if the photos were just posted, or if I just missed them, but I had never seen them in NamUs before.
https://identifyus.org/cases/4790
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Postmortem%20Photos/2089688480045078242S425x425Q851_zps38a9a17b.jpghtt p://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Postmortem%20Photos/BuckskinGirlPostmortem_zpsd80eed1e.jpg
The side view gives you a much different perspective of what she looked like. I didn't realize that she had such a pointy nose.
They also have a real clear photo of the buckskin jacket. I guess that means that I will have to revise the full-bodied reconstruction of her.
BTW justthinkin, as you get rule-outs from L.E. you should update our "Ruled Out" thread.
Wow, just wow. I'd have never guessed her nose was anywhere near that pointy based on the frontal view.
CarlK90245
03-05-2010, 02:06 AM
OK ... Here she is in her buckskin jacket. ... and with the right colored sweater.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithcoatfullfigure_zps70898ce2-1_zpsca529356.jpghttp://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeeth3_zps537f098e-1_zpsbae44bd1.jpg
sam spade
03-25-2010, 04:04 PM
Unbelievable. I cannot get over how the side view changes her look completely! From the front it looks almost bulbous and with that side it's so defined. Maybe this will be the photo that gets her identified. I know it's changed my way of searching for her completely.
mtnmom1963
03-25-2010, 10:25 PM
Does her left ear look unusual compared to the right one or is it just me? TIA
HockeyGirl
03-25-2010, 10:57 PM
WOW Carl! That side view has never been released here, and I haven't ever seen it on any sites I have been too. I agree with everyone else, it really changes her appearence. She looks much more slender, with a more pointy nose, than in the frontal view.
Thank you SO much for posting that, as silly as it sounds it almost makes me want to cry.
Lucy's mom
03-26-2010, 01:20 PM
They don't even look at all like the same person. Absolutely amazed. From the frontal view she looks like she has much fuller features. The side view shows a pointier nose and almost looks like she has a pronounced overbite...but that could be how they have her lying down.
CarlK90245
03-26-2010, 01:46 PM
They don't even look at all like the same person. Absolutely amazed. From the frontal view she looks like she has much fuller features. The side view shows a pointier nose and almost looks like she has a pronounced overbite...but that could be how they have her lying down.
This is a case in point to keep in mind that when looking at postmortem photos, you need to mentally trim an inch or so off the sides of their face. When a person has been dead and on their back for several hours, the skin on their face sags back from the lack of blood pressure in the cheeks and lips.
BTW, it looks like the side view was taken some time before the frontal view, as the side view doesn't reflect the same facial skin sagging as does the frontal. It is also clear that they were taken at different times because, she is on a drain table for the side view, and she is on a different table for the frontal.
Hope32
03-26-2010, 02:29 PM
I'm thinking that the side view was taken later as her hair looks really short, and doesn't have braids?
CarlK90245
03-26-2010, 02:56 PM
I'm thinking that the side view was taken later as her hair looks really short, and doesn't have braids?
The braids are tucked under the back of her head in the side-view.
Bewildered
03-26-2010, 03:00 PM
Has anyone taken a good look at the center picture of Donna Barnhill? The features are similar to Buckskin girl, but the photo quality is poor. I noticed in this photo of Donna that her right earlobe is kind of turned up or odd shaped, similarly to Buckskin girl. The center picture was taken around the time of her disappearance, too bad it wasn't of better quality. Also, Donna is missing from North Carolina, so kinda far away from where Buckskin girl was found. I apologize for not putting up a side-by-side, as I do not know how to do that.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/35dfnc.html
CarlK90245
03-26-2010, 03:18 PM
The one thing I notice is the comment that she had never been to a dentist prior to her disappearance.
NamUs indicates one dental restoration (although it doesn't indicate which tooth was restored).
Also, her age (13) seems pretty low. IMO, Buckskin Girl is much older than 13.
I am typing from my iPhone, so I can't help with the side-by-side.
carbuff
03-26-2010, 03:29 PM
Does her left ear look unusual compared to the right one or is it just me? TIA
I think both of her ears have quite an unusual shape, large and cupped with very little lobe, and an interesting wrinkle near the bottom.
Bewildered
03-26-2010, 06:04 PM
The one thing I notice is the comment that she had never been to a dentist prior to her disappearance.
NamUs indicates one dental restoration (although it doesn't indicate which tooth was restored).
Also, her age (13) seems pretty low. IMO, Buckskin Girl is much older than 13.
I am typing from my iPhone, so I can't help with the side-by-side.
Yes, Donna Barnhill was only 13, but she disappeared one month before her 14th birthday. Still, 14 is a few years younger than what they estimated Buckskin girl's age to be. I wish I could find a better picture of Donna Barnhill at the age closest to what she was when she disappeared.
The first picture on Doe Network of her was five years younger than she was when she disappeared and unfortunately, is the same picture that the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is using, probably just because the quality of the picture is much much better than the other one, but does not depict her at the age she was when she disappeared.
tatertot
04-13-2010, 11:17 PM
Her case on Identifyus.org was updated April 10 with a significant list of rule-outs:
Lynn Bandringa 1945 California
Kristy Booth 1960 Texas
Corinne Groenenberg 1957 California
Paulette Jaster 1954 Michigan
Carol Lubahn 1954 California
Aleca Manning 1952 Arizona
Linda Nickell 1955 Michigan
Patricia Otto 1952 Idaho
Elaine Robertson 1955 Washington
Diane Schulte 1954 Idaho
Debra Spickler 1955 Connecticut
Christina White 1967 Washington
Debra Wilhite 1955 Indiana
April Zane 1960 Illinois
chaddylex
04-14-2010, 11:38 AM
Teresa Rains isn't listed on the rule out list....
CarlK90245
04-14-2010, 11:52 AM
I wonder where these NamUs rule-out lists come from. They are almost never a complete list of the people that have been looked at. For example, I know that Sharon Pretorius has been looked at and ruled-out (in addition to several others mentioned on this thread).
Also, I sometimes see names on the NamUs rule-out lists that are so far off-base that it is laughable. For example, I've seen names of people on some NamUs pages that went missing years after the UID died.
tatertot
04-19-2010, 07:24 AM
I see some resemblance between Buckskin Jane and Teresa Lynn Rhodes, newly added to the Doe Network site:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2610dfpa.html
http://pennsylvaniamissing.com/rhodesteresalynn.html
Rhodes:
5'3"
13 in 1975 (she'd have been 19 when BG was found)
brown hair, hazel eyes
Buckskin Jane:
5'6"
late teens to early twenties (or up to age 26, depending on the report)
brownish-reddish hair, brown eyes
There's no word on DNA availability for Rhodes, nor do the situations match up well. Rhodes also had a dog-bite scar on her lip that isn't visible in BG's photos or mentioned in her report. Rhodes has all her teeth in her photo but there is a six-year gap between the cases so she might have lost one during those years. Ideas?
CarlK90245
04-19-2010, 09:41 AM
JMHO, but I don't see the resemblance. In the photo, her head is turned enough to her right that you would see the pointy nose if she had one. Also, she has cheekbone definition. Her cheekbones aren't flush-to-the-eye-sockets like Buckskin Girl's are.
chaddylex
04-19-2010, 11:27 AM
Teresa Rhodes is from where I live and I have never heard of her case until I saw it on The Doe Network this morning... (she went missing when I was like a month old, that could be why).
It said she that an informant said she was buried at Keystone State Park which is about 10 miles away from Greensburg, where she went missing...
I would love to know more about Teresa's disappearance.
tatertot
04-29-2010, 11:26 AM
Updated link for the UID (AKA "The Buckskin Girl") on Doe Network:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/133ufoh.html
Updated link for Kimberly Kahler:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/942dfca.html
Since Kimberly Kahler has DNA in CODIS, this can be excluded as a possible match, right?
CarlK90245
04-29-2010, 11:56 AM
Updated link for the UID (AKA "The Buckskin Girl") on Doe Network:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/133ufoh.html
Updated link for Kimberly Kahler:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/942dfca.html
Since Kimberly Kahler has DNA in CODIS, this can be excluded as a possible match, right?
It says that BG's DNA is available at the Miami Valley regional crime lab. I would guess that they would have entered it in CODIS, but I wish that they would explicitly say so.
As for K Kahler being BG, I don't see it. They look entirely different to me.
tatertot
05-05-2010, 09:45 AM
According to Steve Lord, who emailed me back 12-7-09 regarding the Sharon Pretorius rule-out, her DNA is in CODIS. His wrote:
The lab called me back and confirmed that both our Jane Doe and Sharon Pretorius are in the CODIS system. They cannot be a match based on DNA.
There are now two more rule-outs on NamUs:
https://identifyus.org/cases/4790
Catherine Sjoberg 1957 Wisconsin
Kathy Wilcox 1956 Michigan
Also, is this dental information on the NamUs report new? It contradicts the info about a missing front tooth:
Dental information with autopsy report indicates "#9 right central incisor" as being porcelain. Diagram of skull illustrates the crown on the right central incisor, as does dental coding accompanying autopsy report (by Dr. Michael Tinkler, DDS), so assumed the use of "#9" in the autopsy report is in error -- the right central incisor is #8. Autopsy report indicates "No missing teeth, no fillings," Dr. Tinkler's report confirms.
CarlK90245
05-05-2010, 11:06 AM
Also, is this dental information on the NamUs report new? It contradicts the info about a missing front tooth:
That comment and the dental diagram has been recently revised.
It previously indicated "A" (i.e. Antemortem Loss with a healed socket) on tooth #8 (meaning that her right upper central incisor was missing prior to her death).
It now indicates "C" for tooth #8, meaning it has a crown. That is now consistent with the earlier comment that there was only one restoration.
They had previously indicated that there was one restoration, but they did not know which tooth. This now clarifies which tooth was restored.
Hopefully it is all correct now.
I think she's unlikely but has anyone ever considered Lisa Renee Wilson? Lisa has redish-brown hair, freckles, brown eyes, and "very few restorations" to her teeth. Her disappearance was in 1974 when she was 14, but it seems possible she was a runaway or kept alive well past her initial date of disappearance. I think she's unlikely but worth evaluating if she hasn't been looked at already.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wilson_lisa.html
carbuff
05-05-2010, 03:59 PM
I think she's unlikely but has anyone ever considered Lisa Renee Wilson? Lisa has redish-brown hair, freckles, brown eyes, and "very few restorations" to her teeth. Her disappearance was in 1974 when she was 14, but it seems possible she was a runaway or kept alive well past her initial date of disappearance. I think she's unlikely but worth evaluating if she hasn't been looked at already.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wilson_lisa.html
She actually looks quite possible, IMHO. Whatever happened to her later, it seems like she was a runaway to begin with, and everything else matches fairly well. The nose appears to be pointy enough, for one thing. Wish we could see her ears, though.
Billylee
05-21-2010, 11:36 PM
Just kinda' bumping this thread. Wrangler jeans weren't really popular until the movie Urban Cowboy was released (June 1980). Before that, the only people who wore Wranglers were usually from an area where folks actually worked around livestock. Most "hippie types" as some referred to earlier in this thread, would have been wearing Levi's. Many girls who followed (or were even involved in Rodeo) braided their hair. I'm really leaning toward some kind of "rodeo" association here. I'm looking at any kind of Rodeo that would be in April, cuz that's kinda early, weather-wise. So far I'm still just sleuthin' around, but thought I'd throw this out there.
tatertot
05-22-2010, 03:30 PM
That's possible! I keep thinking back to her "ruddy" complexion, which suggests she wasn't held prisoner indoors but she was out in the sun.
In this January 1981 article, traveling rodeo performer Jackie Rinehart says, "Now, I got to find a girl to work with me in the car this weekend. The act is called the Honeymooners. I used to have this girl from Miami here, but she was a wild one. Got in a fight one Saturday night. Now I'm lookin again. Really, I could teach a girl pretty quick. The animals already know what they're supposed to do. All the girl has to do is have a bit of a flair for show business... and fit in the little costume I got in the trailer."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=QLYlAAAAIBAJ&sjid=T_MFAAAAIBAJ&pg=868,2926509&dq=ohio+rodeo&hl=en
He's talking about Miami, Florida, not the Ohio County where Jane Doe was found. I really doubt his former performing partner was BG, but it does sound like young women were hired to perform in these types of traveling shows.
There are some articles I've found online that suggested BG was a prostitute, but somehow the braids and buckskin jacket don't jive with that lifestyle, at least in my mind.
nerosleuth
05-22-2010, 04:14 PM
Just kinda' bumping this thread. Wrangler jeans weren't really popular until the movie Urban Cowboy was released (June 1980). Before that, the only people who wore Wranglers were usually from an area where folks actually worked around livestock. Most "hippie types" as some referred to earlier in this thread, would have been wearing Levi's. Many girls who followed (or were even involved in Rodeo) braided their hair. I'm really leaning toward some kind of "rodeo" association here. I'm looking at any kind of Rodeo that would be in April, cuz that's kinda early, weather-wise. So far I'm still just sleuthin' around, but thought I'd throw this out there.
One possibility here is that there could have been a horse show or a rodeo held at the Ohio State Fairgrounds in Columbus.
Columbus would be a drive of about 75 miles or so from where her body was found.
I remember years ago (back in the 70's) there used to be a horse show during the spring at the state fairgrounds.
I also do know that for years that the Quarter Horse Congress have their annual meet and horse show held during the fall in Columbus.
I would look into horse shows and rodeos that were held in Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana during that time.
Billylee
05-22-2010, 09:36 PM
I think this gal looks like her (but then maybe it's just the skinny eyebrows). Height and age fit also. The profile morgue picture though, looks like the Jane Doe doesn't have much of a chin. That profile picture, makes her look like a completely different person than her frontal picture. I don't know what the scenario would be for her to end up in Ohio either.
Mary Michelle Sprague:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sprague_mary.html
Mensch
05-22-2010, 10:03 PM
I wonder where these NamUs rule-out lists come from. They are almost never a complete list of the people that have been looked at. For example, I know that Sharon Pretorius has been looked at and ruled-out (in addition to several others mentioned on this thread).
Also, I sometimes see names on the NamUs rule-out lists that are so far off-base that it is laughable. For example, I've seen names of people on some NamUs pages that went missing years after the UID died.
I am personally aware of a case where the family demanded their family member be entered as missing "endangered" once they found out it is the law in such a situation. They did this 8 years after the date of last contact. I am seeing new listings or perhaps they are just updates so I expect to see many missing who may already have a UID match up years before they are entered. The system is far from perfect...okay, far from satisfactory, but it is all we have. This just makes the process of searching much longer and more difficult. Frustrating.
Billylee
05-25-2010, 11:53 PM
I think this gal looks like her (but then maybe it's just the skinny eyebrows). Height and age fit also. The profile morgue picture though, looks like the Jane Doe doesn't have much of a chin. That profile picture, makes her look like a completely different person than her frontal picture. I don't know what the scenario would be for her to end up in Ohio either.
Mary Michelle Sprague:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sprague_mary.html
Side by side:
http://i46.tinypic.com/245lo9u.jpg
Wish I had a picture of Sprague's ears, because this JD has kinda' unique ear shape.
CarlK90245
05-26-2010, 12:40 AM
Side by side:
http://i46.tinypic.com/245lo9u.jpg
Wish I had a picture of Sprague's ears, because this JD has kinda' unique ear shape.
Her third photo in her Charley profile shows the lower part of her ears.
I wish I could see her in profile. From what I can see, she doesn't have the same pointy nose. There are a lot of similarities, but I don't think it's her. She doesn't have the same overall look.
Cymro
05-26-2010, 12:23 PM
I don't know...
18 months between disappearance and death seems a bit too long, especially as the cab driver reports a possible attack on Mary around the time of her disappearance. She could have been on the run of course and then come to harm but it's not real strong.
I do think Mary has quite a similar nose - as Carl said earlier, it doesn't look so pointy until you see it in profile, but actually it might be pretty similar.
Doe also had a 32D bra - consistent with the body shape of an exotic dancer perhaps?
Doe was slightly heavier than Mary but well within range.
Mary is right in the middle of the age range.
Eyes don't match - Mary had green eyes, Doe had brown, although there is the old "hazel" chestnut... an intermediate color could be described as either.
Dentals are consistent as far as they are described.
Doe's "remarkably good physical condition" is consistent with Mary, a dancer who was described as "responsible."
This photo of Mary:
http://www.charleyproject.org/images/s/sprague_mary3.jpg
has the Doe's poorly defined chin area. A profile picture would be very helpful for elimination. With an extra 15lbs' weight, she could certainly have a rounder face.
I think the likelihood is that Mary was killed very soon after disappearance and dumped locally and therefore this probably isn't her. I can't quite rule it out on the photo but I would say it's unlikely.
Billylee
05-26-2010, 12:40 PM
I don't think it is Mary, because of the ears. When I blew up the JD's picture then I realized how different her ears are. They sorta go in toward her jaw line and then out again if you know what I mean. It appears that Mary's don't do that. Mary's nose does look more pointed int he fourth CP picture, but I think the ears say NO, not her. Darn it!
carbuff
05-26-2010, 01:33 PM
I dunno. Mary's earlobes are very large, as are the UID's. It looks to me like her hair is covering the point at which the bend would show -- since nearly all her photos show her with hair covering her ears, it makes me wonder whether she was embarrassed about them.
I think it's odd that she disappeared after being followed, but that's not really substantive evidence that she died then and there.
All in all, there are many points of correspondence and very few negatives. I'd say send it in. If the ears really are different, they can make a quick rule out.
Billylee
05-26-2010, 01:52 PM
I dunno. Mary's earlobes are very large, as are the UID's. It looks to me like her hair is covering the point at which the bend would show -- since nearly all her photos show her with hair covering her ears, it makes me wonder whether she was embarrassed about them.
I think it's odd that she disappeared after being followed, but that's not really substantive evidence that she died then and there.
All in all, there are many points of correspondence and very few negatives. I'd say send it in. If the ears really are different, they can make a quick rule out.
I just enlarged Mary's ear picture to be sure and they just aren't the same as the JD's. There's no "pinch" inward at all, her ears go straight in toward her face. So I just don't think it's her. But if you see them differently, you can go ahead an double check her with them. One more name to add to the rule out list.
carbuff
05-26-2010, 01:54 PM
I just enlarged Mary's ear picture to be sure and they just aren't the same as the JD's. There's no "pinch" inward at all, her ears go straight in toward her face. So I just don't think it's her. But if you see them differently, you can go ahead an double check her with them. One more name to add to the rule out list.
I can't see them closely enough to tell (I don't have much in the way of photo software to enlarge stuff, etc.) Looking at Mary's photo, I can't even see the point where the pinch would be.
Billylee
05-26-2010, 02:01 PM
I can't see them closely enough to tell (I don't have much in the way of photo software to enlarge stuff, etc.) Looking at Mary's photo, I can't even see the point where the pinch would be.
LOL, I know how to save the pic and enlarge it to view it, but I don't know how to enlarge it, crop the ears and then post it. Tried it once and it didn't work at all. Maybe someone can do that for us here? :)
carbuff
05-26-2010, 02:26 PM
LOL, I know how to save the pic and enlarge it to view it, but I don't know how to enlarge it, crop the ears and then post it. Tried it once and it didn't work at all. Maybe someone can do that for us here? :)
LOL, so true. I had the same results.
Carl is really good at that, if he has the time and interest. Carl?
CarlK90245
05-26-2010, 02:45 PM
LOL, so true. I had the same results.
Carl is really good at that, if he has the time and interest. Carl?
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Side-By-Side%20Comparisons/2456990120045078242S600x600Q851_zpsa19623e6.jpg
carbuff
05-26-2010, 02:54 PM
Okay, so not her.
I'm amazed -- I used to think ears were ears. But really they're almost as distinctive as fingerprints, aren't they?
Billylee
05-26-2010, 04:22 PM
Thanks Carl. Now if we can just find someone missing with those ears!!
Billylee
05-26-2010, 04:37 PM
Going back to a rodeo theory, they are usually held around the same time of year. I searched and found a Rodeo (Women's circuit) that's held this year in Dillsburg, PA on 4/18. And there's a PRCA Rodeo held in St. Paul Minnesota on 4/23. Could it be possible that she was traveling from one to another and someone she traveled with did her in. Would the location of her death be somewhere near a highway that would be in between the two? All rodeo folks drive great distances to get where they need to be, and usually quite quickly. Wonder if they'd taken her boots, so that no one would realize she was a cow girl? Just thinking out loud.
Billylee
05-26-2010, 05:00 PM
Just came across this story about a young girl named Amy Mihaljevic, who had a love of horses and who used to ride at stables in Ohio. She was killed in in Ohio 1989, they found her body by the side of the road also. Only 10 years old, so sad. I wonder if her killer might have been this JD's killer also? Anyone know more about this story, or the location of the stables they refer to here?
http://www.altohio.com/with-love-from-exile-2.htm
Carolyn H.
05-27-2010, 11:07 AM
The local rodeo is actually in Wellsville, an even smaller town near Dillsburg PA. I live just outside both. Currently, the rodeo is a women's circuit event but it wasn't always. During the time of BG's disappearance, I don't think it was on the women's circuit--it was just a small local event then. I doubt if many people from any distance attended. Even today I don't see many out of state trailers or trucks and those that are are usually MD and VA, with a few from OH and NY
nerosleuth
05-27-2010, 09:37 PM
I was thinking about the ruddy complexion of Buckskin Girl. Her complexion suggests that she was a person who worked outdoors.
Ok, here's another theory here. How about if she was a carny, that is a person who worked for a traveling carnival?
The kind of carnival I'm talking about is the one that sets up and works in amusement park rides, concession stands, ticket stands, and game of skill stands either out in an open field or in a shopping center parking lot.
A lot of these carnivals travel great distances from one area to another, usally small towns and rural areas. They stay in one area for 3 to 5 days before going to another area. They usually operate from the early spring to late fall season.
So could there be a traveling carnival in the area at the time Buckskin Girl was found?
Billylee
05-27-2010, 10:57 PM
I think that's another good possibility. The only reason I'm leaning toward rodeo is the Wranglers. Then again, she could have been a girl who worked both. Don't know how you'd ever be able to pinpoint a traveling carnival show way back then. ?
Billylee
05-29-2010, 12:48 PM
I have no idea what the scenario could have been which could put this girl in this situation, but she does seem to fit the description, so I guess she's a possibility.
Sandra Hopler missing from PA since 9/73. I wish there were other pictures of Sandy particularly one showing her ears. (Our JD did not have pierced ears, you'd think they could at least list that sort of thing on these folks' missing notices.) Her age, height, weight, eye color all fit. Her hair is listed as brown, though it looks reddish brown in the only picture I have found of her. The picture also looks like she might have freckles. And she hasn't been ruled out. What do you guys think as far as looks go?
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1436dfpa.html
Sandra Hopler missing from PA since 9/73. I wish there were other pictures of Sandy particularly one showing her ears. (Our JD did not have pierced ears, you'd think they could at least list that sort of thing on these folks' missing notices.) Her age, height, weight, eye color all fit. Her hair is listed as brown, though it looks reddish brown in the only picture I have found of her. The picture also looks like she might have freckles. And she hasn't been ruled out. What do you guys think as far as looks go?
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1436dfpa.html
I also noticed a slight resemble between Sandra and Buckskin Girl. BG has way more freckles and ruddier complexion. Her hair also seems to be a different texture. All that said, she had enough of a resemble for me to take mental note of her.
Of course circumstances and dates make her a likely rule out.
nerosleuth
05-29-2010, 02:23 PM
I think that's another good possibility. The only reason I'm leaning toward rodeo is the Wranglers. Then again, she could have been a girl who worked both. Don't know how you'd ever be able to pinpoint a traveling carnival show way back then. ?
I do know that in the state of Ohio, the Department of Argiculture has full time ride inspectors that inspect all rides in amusement parks and traveling carnivals.
http://www.agri.ohio.gov/divs/rides/#main
I don't know how many companies had traveling carnivals back then and are still in business today. It is my understanding that each traveling carnival company has to have a state license, have liability insurance, and provide the Ohio Department of Argiculture a list of locations where their carnivals are held at during the year in Ohio. I don't know how far back the Ohio Department of Argiculture has records on traveling carnivals
I found a website of the largest traveling carnival company operating in Ohio.
http://www.kisselbros.com/aboutus.htm
Looking at the Kissel Brothers carnival schedule also gave me another idea that I overlooked.
Two other possibilites that come to mind here.
One possibility, albeit very small here, is that Buckskin Girl could have been on a traveling circus that traveled across the country.
Another possibility is that Buckskin Girl could have been involved with horse racing. The area where she was found isn't far from horse race tracks in Columbus, Cincinnati, and Kentucky.
Billylee
05-30-2010, 11:51 AM
I was thinking about horse racing too; that perhaps she was a warm up rider or a stall girl who cleaned out stalls, etc. Good possibilities, Nero. One would think that if there was a traveling show of any kind that had gone through there, that LE would have checked them out, but who knows. I know a lot of runaways could end up as workers in those types of scenarios though. I'm still thinking that this young woman was once a runaway.
I was just considering this girl, Lori Jean Lloyd, who went missing when she was 14 and had a history of running away. Age fits, she is listed as 5'3", but she could have grown one more inch or so I suppose. What I like about her as a match is the fact she had the freckles across her nose. Also her history of running away. AND the eyebrows. Lori had very thick eyebrows when she was little and if you look at the latest picture they have posted there of her, she was already beginning to pluck them out quite thinly. Also, you can almost see her ear in one of them, but I can't quite make it out; but, if look at the age progression sketch, those ears are shaped almost like our JD's. It says that Lori tried to slash her wrists once, but it also says "she MAY have scars from that", so it sounds like it may have been just a surface scratch and it may not have left a permanent scar. The first picture of her also looks like she has a bit of a reddish tint to her hair, though it doesn't mention it. She's from Kettering, OH and she is not on the rule out list. The age progression sketch shows her with pierced ears though, I wonder if she had pierced ears, because Buckskin girl did not? Honestly being from OH, I'm surprised she's NOT on the rule out list. Lori would have been 18 at 4/24/81.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lloyd_lori.html
Billylee
05-30-2010, 12:47 PM
I just found this on Lori Jean Lloyd, it says her ears were piereced, so she can be ruled out as buckskin JD.
http://www.123people.ca/ext/frm?ti=person%20finder&search_term=lori%20jean&search_country=CA&st=person%20finder&target_url=http%3A%2F%2Flrd.yahooapis.com%2F_ylc%3 DX3oDMTVnN2Jtb20wBF9TAzIwMjMxNTI3MDIEYXBwaWQDc1k3W lo2clYzNEhSZm5ZdGVmcmkzRUx4VG5makpERG5QOWVKV1NGSkJ HcTJ1V1dFa0xVdm5IYnNBeUNyVkd5Y2REVElUX2tlBGNsaWVud ANib3NzBHNlcnZpY2UDQk9TUwRzbGsDdGl0bGUEc3JjcHZpZAN IOWlnUTJLSWNycG9IeVUyaVN2ZmlXNC5XODV4MFV3Q2xlY0FEZ Gtx%2FSIG%3D11msq63jm%2F**http%253A%2F%2Fwww.proje ctjason.org%2Faan%2FAAN_LoriLloyd.pdf§ion=document&wrt_id=415
tatertot
10-06-2010, 09:47 AM
Tina Faye Kemp was just added to Charley Project yesterday. She was 15 when she left her home in Delaware in February 1979:
DE DE - Tina Faye Kemp, 14, Felton, 3 Feb 1975 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kemp_tina.html
Her NamUs profile includes several photos, including some taken when she was younger: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6937/0
Does anyone think she could be the Buckskin Girl? At first glance, BG's freckles look too dark compared to Tina's, but if you look at Tina's older school photo where she's wearing the blouse with rickrack, she doesn't appear to have freckles yet, then in her photo with the pink sweater set, she has some light freckles and in her photo with the striped sweater, which I assume was her most recent school photo, she has darker freckles. If she was missing for two years her freckles could have grown darker still.
Tina "had been known to frequent horse-racing tracks in Delaware and the surrounding states," while we wondered in this thread if BG's Wrangler jeans suggested she worked with horses or for a rodeo.
There's a five-inch height difference; Tina was 5'0" or 5'1" while BG was 5'6".
BG was also about 30 pounds heavier than Tina's 95 to 100 pounds.
Tina had a mole that doesn't match the location of BG's moles.
Tina's eyes are blue; BG's were light brown.
Tina's profile states DNA is available but not yet submitted.
CarlK90245
10-06-2010, 11:21 AM
Tina Faye Kemp was just added to Charley Project yesterday. She was 15 when she left her home in Delaware in February 1979:
DE DE - Tina Faye Kemp, 14, Felton, 3 Feb 1975 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106954)
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kemp_tina.html
Her NamUs profile includes several photos, including some taken when she was younger: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6937/0
Does anyone think she could be the Buckskin Girl?
That is a very good resemblance.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Missing%20Persons%20Photos/2919033300045078242S425x425Q851_zps15abed69.jpg
Here's the Side By Side with the postmortem:
*** WARNING - POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK ***
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Side-By-Side%20Comparisons/2385712000045078242S600x600Q851_zps1559f94c.jpg
I was looking at possibles for her last night, and stopped at Haymarket Jane Doe and Princess Doe (neither of which I got too excited about):
http://doenetwork.org/cases/468ufva.html
http://doenetwork.org/cases/36ufnj.html
She seems to be a little bit young (16 in April of '81), but nevertheless, Buckskin Girl looks like a pretty decent possible.
Tina's eyes don't look blue in the photo, they do look light brown (although that might be attributable to the aging of the photo). ETA: in her other photos in NamUs, her eyes are clearly blue.
I don't see any "moles" that appear to be unquestionably permanent.
The height is not too much of a concern because she still would have been growing from 14 to 16.
The close-up of her teeth in NamUs indicate gaps which are not mentioned in Buckskin Girl's NamUs file (but there were errors in BG's NamUs dental chart that needed to be corrected).
I would say that it's probably not her, but it might be worth a look anyway.
Mensch
11-18-2010, 10:16 AM
I have been researching Mary Sprague for a long time as a possible match to this UP case. Yesterday I did a search here before submitting a possible match to "Buckskin Girl" and found that my subject had been mentioned here but each person posting ended with "it isn't her". Her ears have been discussed and the shape of her face and the geographical time line. Still, the comments were against Mary Sprague being the UP. No one said it was submitted or said this was her. So, I did some checking with all agencies involved and sure enough, this woman has not been submitted and I can't imagine why. I submitted her yesterday as a possible match.
see side by side and facial markers in file.
Mensch
11-18-2010, 10:26 AM
The UP has a series of raised "dots" forming two lines running horizontally along the R side of her neck. The same markers appear on Mary Sprague. As for the ears, if anyone is interested: Remember, the skin and facial muscles will be sagging postmortem and that if the person is lying down, any markers on the face or neck will "shift" downward. What you may call a fold in Mary's earlobe is a fold but as so many shown here in other images, it is a natural result of her face pushing against her ears forming this characteristic.
As to time line. I figured since it was reported she had a confrontation with her boss, she could have simply walked out on her job and her life in Daytona. She was born and raised in the northern part of the country so the geographical distance is not a issue.
The buckskin jacket is not a costume. In the South they are/were common. Most were made in Mexico and some in the US but were not meant to make a statement of ethnicity or lifestyle. The UP's other clothing was not unique to that time period.
I guess we just wait on this and that is always the hardest part of the research.
KLCD620
11-18-2010, 01:22 PM
Got the link from 1970 missing forum as below, I don't think Mary would walk away from her old life according to her best friend Denise Durante. I'm not sure whether Mary willing to turn from dress up fashion & good looking woman to average looking pigtails & buckskin clothes woman. CARL90245 did point out from his earlier post about comparing ears between Mary & UID which it doesn't match up.
http://missingpiecesshow.homestead.com/MissingPiecesEpisode57Archive.html
Mensch
11-18-2010, 01:53 PM
Thanks for posting that article. I read it and found it very interesting. As to ears..they are like any other part of the body - they take on a different shape when in the state of decomp (see second post). I submitted this MP because this case is as reasonable as any other and I could not ignore the double line markings on the neck of both. They are obvious without enhancing the photo which shows a far better depiction.
Enhancing is not "enlarging". This involves contrast and colour curves. I don't get into why people do or do not act in ways we expect them to. I simply look for a logical set of circumstances,and physical resemblance and then leave it with the scientific process. If this is not the UP, then I just continue as I get to the case.
Thanks again for the article!
CarlK90245
11-18-2010, 02:19 PM
Got the link from 1970 missing forum as below, I don't think Mary would walk away from her old life according to her best friend Denise Durante. I'm not sure whether Mary willing to turn from dress up fashion & good looking woman to average looking pigtails & buckskin clothes woman. CARL90245 did point out from his earlier post about comparing ears between Mary & UID which it doesn't match up.
http://missingpiecesshow.homestead.com/MissingPiecesEpisode57Archive.html
Mensch's explanation that the folds in BG's ears are a postmortem effect sounds plausible.
And I see what Mensch is saying about the raised dots right over the neck muscle that spans from behind the ear to the sternum. At first glance, I thought it was scratches caused by her killer. But it could be a permanent marker, and if they aren't the same person that would be a pretty interesting coincidence that MS has those marks in exactly the same place.
Judging from their overall "look". I don't see the resemblance. But taking their facial features individually (except the ears), there are a very strong similarities. The first things I usually focus on are glabella (i.e., the top of nose above the bridge), cheekbones (not to be confused with the flesh of the cheeks), and chin. Mary is very consistent to BG at all three points. Add in their exaggerated way that they shape their eyebrows, and it could very well be her, despite the above mentioned lack of overall resemblance. I must admit that I would be shocked if it was because I looked pretty closely several times, and despite the above mentioned similarities, I concluded that it probably wasn't her.
As for circumstances, a detective told me a couple of weeks ago that it's not implausible that someone who seemingly is satisfied with their life decides to stage their disappearance and start a new life. He said that he has seen that happen on a few occasions.
Mensch
11-18-2010, 03:45 PM
Mensch's explanation that the folds in BG's ears are a postmortem effect sounds plausible.
... But taking their facial features individually (except the ears), there are a very strong similarities. The first things I usually focus on are glabella (i.e., the top of nose above the bridge), cheekbones (not to be confused with the flesh of the cheeks), and chin. Mary is very consistent to BG at all three points. Add in their exaggerated way that they shape their eyebrows, and it could very well be her, despite the above mentioned lack of overall resemblance. I must admit that I would be shocked if it was because I looked pretty closely several times, and despite the above mentioned similarities, I concluded that it probably wasn't her.
As for circumstances, a detective told me a couple of weeks ago that it's not implausible that someone who seemingly is satisfied with their life decides to stage their disappearance and start a new life. He said that he has seen that happen on a few occasions.
I agree with your priorities of focus. However, the most often point of error in judgement for anyone scanning photos is the nose. We can see an example of that by looking at the UP frontal and side view. She looks completely different. I never use just one photo unless that is all there is. Depending on the lighting a nose can appear to take on several different shapes. Even Mary's nose appears different in her photos. There is one where it does appear more pointed than the other two.
I am not sure I would call some 'walk-aways" beginning a new life. There have been some who just needed to get away for a week or two - found the experience promicing and more appealing than what was behind and then never got the chance to return to reality. Mary was only missing approximately 6 months, IF this is is the up. Many women and men have been gone for longer and returned home. I guess the operative word here is "seemingly". We never really know what another is going through even if we live with them 24/7
Mensch
11-23-2010, 12:02 AM
Does anyone know about the following information or the website it came from? I find this information very confusing and if this was something kept from the public then LE is more inept than I know them to be.
Describing the physical appearance of the "Buckskin Girl"
..."Her teeth were in excellent condition and she had a plate. She was in a very good physical condition and was a very well-kept person.
If you have any information about this case, please contact:
Detective Lee McCartney
937-440-3965 ext. 6632
What does the word "plate" mean? I have only heard it in reference to 'dental plate' as in false teeth.
http://www.unidentified-persons.org/pg21.html
CarlK90245
11-23-2010, 12:06 AM
Does anyone know about the following information or the website it came from? I find this information very confusing and if this was something kept from the public then LE is more inept than I know them to be.
Describing the physical appearance of the "Buckskin Girl"
..."Her teeth were in excellent condition and she had a plate. She was in a very good physical condition and was a very well-kept person.
If you have any information about this case, please contact:
Detective Lee McCartney
937-440-3965 ext. 6632
What does the word "plate" mean? I have only heard it in reference to 'dental plate' as in false teeth.
http://www.unidentified-persons.org/pg21.html
I'm guessing maybe a retainer. But that's a good question.
They previously said that she was missing a tooth #8 with a single restoration, and then they changed it to say that she had a capped tooth #8 (that being the single restored tooth). Perhaps she did have a missing tooth, and the plate contained a single false tooth.
If that's the case, then we are back to the question of which tooth was the single restored tooth.
carbuff
11-23-2010, 12:12 AM
There's an orthodontic device that's referred to as a plate -- my daughter had one. It cover the palate, presses against the insides of the teeth and jaw, and has a screw device that can be expanded gradually to force the upper jaw to widen, in cases where the lower jaw is bigger than the upper jaw.
That's usually used when a person is still quite young and the skull is growing, though. This girl seems a bit old for it.
Mensch
11-23-2010, 12:14 AM
I'm guessing maybe a retainer. But that's a good question.
They previously said that she was missing a tooth #8 with a single restoration, and then they changed it to say that she had a capped tooth #8 (that being the restored tooth). Perhaps she did have a missing tooth, and the plate contained a single false tooth.
If that's the case, then we are back to the question of which tooth was the single restored tooth.
You are correct! There is still a discrepancy on the restoration. If this were a single tooth then that is generally referred to as a "bridge" because it is attached to the teeth on each side by a wire. That is the ONLY thing I know about dental work and it is because I have such a bridge - one tooth.
I did send an email to the Detective with the url and asked him to clarify. Not bettin' the ranch on a reasonable answer though. Thanks Carl.
Mensch
11-23-2010, 12:20 AM
There's an orthodontic device that's referred to as a plate -- my daughter had one. It cover the palate, presses against the insides of the teeth and jaw, and has a screw device that can be expanded gradually to force the upper jaw to widen, in cases where the lower jaw is bigger than the upper jaw.
That's usually used when a person is still quite young and the skull is growing, though. This girl seems a bit old for it.
Ouch! Sounds painful. Is this something that a dental specialist would have to do? Is this common?If so then I am wondering why identification would be so difficult? Sorry carbuff...if you have been following this then you already know I am clueless as to dentals.
carbuff
11-23-2010, 12:26 AM
Ouch! Sounds painful. Is this something that a dental specialist would have to do? Is this common?If so then I am wondering why identification would be so difficult? Sorry carbuff...if you have been following this then you already know I am clueless as to dentals.
I only know that my daughter had one -- it's a standard orthodontic procedure. Not the most common, but not rare either. It expands very gradually, and while the skull is growing anyway, so no more discomfort than most braces.
It probably would help identify her, if it came to the attention of her orthodontist. But as I said, she seems a bit old for it.
reasypeasy
11-23-2010, 03:17 AM
I had a plate too, when I was about ten. They don't hurt, most of it feels quite inert in the mouth and the only time I felt pressure was for an hour or so after turning the screw at night. The pressure felt a bit like pushing gently on a tooth with my finger. The scew was right in the middle of the plastic that covered my palate, and I used a little metal rod to turn it at night, as many turns as the dentist had told me at the last visit.
My parents chose a plate rather than braces because we have a history of bad enamel, extensive decay and early tooth loss in my family, and a plate carries less decay risk because you can remove it several times a day to brush teeth and clean the plate. Braces would have moved my teeth more and given a more movie-star perfect effect, but the plate did the job pretty well, nobody would say I have badly positioned teeth. Also, the plate was cheaper by a couple of thousand back in 1980, which wasn't an issue because we had good health cover, but could be an issue for some.
tatertot
11-23-2010, 05:21 AM
The quote about BG having a plate came from a March 17, 2001 Dayton Daily Times article and is archived here:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=6667
I submitted the potential match with Tina Faye Kemp on October 6 and received a reply (the same day!) from the Miami County Sheriff's Office that they would await a CODIS comparison once Kemp's DNA sample is processed, considering there were quite a few dissimilarities between the two.
Mensch, Lt. Steve Lord from the MCSO is a great contact and wrote back promptly when I sent him potential matches, even when I accidentally sent him the Sharon Pretorius match that I should have known was a CODIS rule-out. If you feel more comfortable corresponding with him because of your law enforcement background, I'm in no way asking you to do all the work on this one but there are a few things I'd meant to ask but haven't yet:
Was there any indication she had ever given birth? (And for that matter, did Mary have her son by c-section? Maybe not if she was an exotic dancer and wouldn't want a scar, but considering that even small scars are documented in the NamUs profile, it seems safe to assume that BG did not have a c-section scar.)
At least one online article suggests BG had been a prostitute without giving any particular reason why anyone came to that conclusion. Did this theory come from her simply being found near an interstate highway, as other murdered prostitutes had been found, or was there other evidence? The MCSO investigated the highway murders in the early 90s, according to the same article linked above. The article also mentions a UID woman found strangled on I-70 in Englewood in 1987; she was recently identified as Paula Beverly Davis, who had disappeared from Kansas City, Missouri only fourteen hours earlier. Davis was not involved in prostitution.
Also, this doesn't really help the investigation but she might have braided her hair for practical reasons even if braids weren't her everyday style. If you had hair that long and you knew you'd be walking outdoors all day, you'd want to braid it so the wind wouldn't tangle it and blow it in your eyes. Even pulling it into a ponytail would leave some tangling to deal with.
CarlK90245
11-23-2010, 09:19 AM
Please check this woman out, Beverly England, and see what you think. ...
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/england_beverly.html
One of the Porchlight posts in tatertot's link indicates that Beverly England was ruled out by Chaffee County Sheriff.
BTW, Paula Beverly Davis, who tatertot just mentioned above was known as the "Blue Bandanna Girl" until she was identified earlier this year.
lieber32
11-23-2010, 08:44 PM
I only know that my daughter had one -- it's a standard orthodontic procedure. Not the most common, but not rare either. It expands very gradually, and while the skull is growing anyway, so no more discomfort than most braces.
It probably would help identify her, if it came to the attention of her orthodontist. But as I said, she seems a bit old for it.
Since I was born with a deformed jaw and have had extensive work I thought I would share my knowledge. I started seeing an oral surgeon when I was six. Said my jaw had to be developed. I have had excellent dental care throughout my life and my dad is a retired lawyer. At thirteen they still told my family I would need to wait a couple years before getting braces. At fifteen they put on plates, by seventeen I had braces and plate removed and at seventeen almost eighteen had extensive surgery on my jaw. Didn't get my braces removed until I was twenty. My upper jaw also was smaller then my lower and had to be corrected by both plate and surgery. I remember the plates being kinda painful when they did them but can't remember having them removed. I can still remember the kind dental assistant that installed them, even certain things about her life like her family, catholic church, etc. FYI I can even remember my brackets from braces being removed and how painful that was so when I read about the unidentified that had brackets removed no way could I have done that myself, ouch does it hurt and it seemed not an easy task even at the orthodontist office.
Mensch
11-28-2010, 12:39 PM
The quote about BG having a plate came from a March 17, 2001 Dayton Daily Times article and is archived here:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=6667
I submitted the potential match with Tina Faye Kemp on October 6 and received a reply (the same day!) from the Miami County Sheriff's Office that they would await a CODIS comparison once Kemp's DNA sample is processed, considering there were quite a few dissimilarities between the two.
Mensch, Lt. Steve Lord from the MCSO is a great contact and wrote back promptly when I sent him potential matches, even when I accidentally sent him the Sharon Pretorius match that I should have known was a CODIS rule-out. If you feel more comfortable corresponding with him because of your law enforcement background, I'm in no way asking you to do all the work on this one but there are a few things I'd meant to ask but haven't yet:
Was there any indication she had ever given birth? (And for that matter, did Mary have her son by c-section? Maybe not if she was an exotic dancer and wouldn't want a scar, but considering that even small scars are documented in the NamUs profile, it seems safe to assume that BG did not have a c-section scar.)
At least one online article suggests BG had been a prostitute without giving any particular reason why anyone came to that conclusion. Did this theory come from her simply being found near an interstate highway, as other murdered prostitutes had been found, or was there other evidence? The MCSO investigated the highway murders in the early 90s, according to the same article linked above. The article also mentions a UID woman found strangled on I-70 in Englewood in 1987; she was recently identified as Paula Beverly Davis, who had disappeared from Kansas City, Missouri only fourteen hours earlier. Davis was not involved in prostitution.
Also, this doesn't really help the investigation but she might have braided her hair for practical reasons even if braids weren't her everyday style. If you had hair that long and you knew you'd be walking outdoors all day, you'd want to braid it so the wind wouldn't tangle it and blow it in your eyes. Even pulling it into a ponytail would leave some tangling to deal with.
tatertot,
Thanks for the information. All I can say is BG did not have a 'plate'. I have asked all the above questions and more. I won't speculate on Mary's lifestyle other than to say she cared far too much about her personal appearance and condition to be one to travel and frequent truck stops. Just an opinion. As to the braided hair. Mary had thick dense hair and in some pics it seemed to be prone to the 'frizzys". In the south during that period if a female lived in a high humidity area and had that type hair it was common to braid it to get a certain look without rollers or perms. When the braids were undone the hair had a fuller almost wavy look. Can't explain it but it was not uncommon for a casual look then. I have a good rapport with the case manager and I have no doubt about how this case will be investigated. That is one tenacious and caring individual who knows her way around LE attitudes.
ETA: sorry for the late reply. I just saw your post this am.
nanny2five
11-28-2010, 12:46 PM
when i read through this thread the other day i thought the confusion about the "plate" might have been because someone in the story called a braid a "plait" ?
eta thats what my grandma called a braid ;)
carbuff
11-28-2010, 03:06 PM
when i read through this thread the other day i thought the confusion about the "plate" might have been because someone in the story called a braid a "plait" ?
eta thats what my grandma called a braid ;)
That's a good thought. I've heard that usage before.
Bewildered
01-23-2011, 12:54 PM
Does anyone know about the following information or the website it came from? I find this information very confusing and if this was something kept from the public then LE is more inept than I know them to be.
Describing the physical appearance of the "Buckskin Girl"
What does the word "plate" mean? I have only heard it in reference to 'dental plate' as in false teeth.
http://www.unidentified-persons.org/pg21.html
Perhaps the word "plate" was used instead of "flipper." When I was about 17, I lost a front tooth. My orthodontist made me a dental flipper which was just a pink acrylic plate with a single false tooth attached. He even stuck a bracket to the front of the tooth since I had braces at the time. A flipper is one of the least expensive ways to replace a missing tooth. If Buckskin girl was not missing any teeth, then perhaps this "plate" was actually just a retainer. My flipper took the place of a retainer after my braces were removed.
chaddylex
02-15-2011, 01:54 PM
I was looking at NAMUS to see if they had any new missing people cases added that would compare to the Buckskin Girl. I found a girl Nancy Dubois or Nancy Rose, missing from Idaho since May 4, 1980. Nancy's height, weight and hair color are spot on as the Buckskin girl. Nancy's profile does not have a picture and they offer little about the circumstances of her disappearance. She is also not on the Rule out list that was just updated last month. https://identifyus.org/cases/4790
With very little to go on about Nancy, do you think it's worth it to submit?
CarlK90245
02-15-2011, 02:01 PM
I was looking at NAMUS to see if they had any new missing people cases added that would compare to the Buckskin Girl. I found a girl Nancy Dubois or Nancy Rose, missing from Idaho since May 4, 1980. Nancy's height, weight and hair color are spot on as the Buckskin girl. Nancy's profile does not have a picture and they offer little about the circumstances of her disappearance. She is also not on the Rule out list that was just updated last month. https://identifyus.org/cases/4790
With very little to go on about Nancy, do you think it's worth it to submit?
I wonder if you might get additional info on Nancy Dubois Rose by sending an e-mail to the Sandpoint ID PD. Probably not, but it might be worth a try.
BTW, you left out the link to her NamUs page.
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2152/56
ETA: I left a message with Eloise Skinner, who is listed as a contact in NamUs.
CarlK90245
02-15-2011, 02:12 PM
Sandpoint ID is a ski town that relies entirely on tourism for its economic well-being.
http://www.destination360.com/north-america/us/idaho/sandpoint
There is nothing on the circumstances of Nancy Rose's disappearance.
I am wondering if this was a case of someone who was lost skiing, or perhaps was buried in an avalanche.
carbuff
02-15-2011, 02:18 PM
The Idaho Missing Persons clearinghouse lists the contact as Bonner County Sheriff's office @ (208)263-8417. (Nancy's entry (http://isp.idaho.gov/identification/missing/findMissingPerson.html?category=o)). There's also Eloise M. Skinner, the Clearinghouse Manager, at eloise.skinner@isp.idaho.gov.
The clearinghouse listing doesn't have much more information except an indication Nancy Rose also uses the name Nancy Morton. Her date of birth is 1950, last seen in 1980, which would make her just a little older than the top age for our UID.
P.S. My dad and his parents lived in Sandpoint for several years right after WWII. Pretty place.
chaddylex
02-15-2011, 02:45 PM
I wonder if you might get additional info on Nancy Dubois Rose by sending an e-mail to the Sandpoint ID PD. Probably not, but it might be worth a try.
BTW, you left out the link to her NamUs page.
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2152/56
ETA: I left a message with Eloise Skinner, who is listed as a contact in NamUs.
Thanks Carl, you're the man! I hate making phone calls! Thanks for adding Nancy's Namus Link.
chaddylex
02-15-2011, 02:46 PM
The Idaho Missing Persons clearinghouse lists the contact as Bonner County Sheriff's office @ (208)263-8417. (Nancy's entry (http://isp.idaho.gov/identification/missing/findMissingPerson.html?category=o)). There's also Eloise M. Skinner, the Clearinghouse Manager, at eloise.skinner@isp.idaho.gov.
The clearinghouse listing doesn't have much more information except an indication Nancy Rose also uses the name Nancy Morton. Her date of birth is 1950, last seen in 1980, which would make her just a little older than the top age for our UID.
I did see that Nancy was a little older than what the UID is listed as. When I looked at the side preview picture of the UID, I kind of thought she looked a little older than early 20's.. JMO
carbuff
02-15-2011, 02:51 PM
I did see that Nancy was a little older than what the UID is listed as. When I looked at the side preview picture of the UID, I kind of thought she looked a little older than early 20's.. JMO
It's only a couple of years difference, so not enough to eliminate her just on that basis. Wish they had a picture, though.
chaddylex
02-15-2011, 02:54 PM
I know... a picture would probably be a easy ruleout!
CarlK90245
02-15-2011, 03:31 PM
Eloise Skinner called me back and said that I would have to contact the Bonner County Sheriff's office @ 208-263-8417.
I am heading out right now though, so I can't make that call today.
chaddylex
02-15-2011, 03:37 PM
Eloise Skinner called me back and said that I would have to contact the Bonner County Sheriff's office @ 208-263-8417.
I am heading out right now though, so I can't make that call today.
If she would have given you an email address, I would have emailed her... I am too chicken to call. Thanks and if you don't want to call I guess I can. Either later on this evening or tomorrow...
CarlK90245
02-16-2011, 12:55 PM
I left a voicemail message with Gary Johnson of the Bonner County Sheriff's Office, asking him if there is any additional information on the circumstances of Nancy Rose's disappearance, or any photos of Nancy that they could make available.
tamar
02-16-2011, 05:25 PM
wanted to add this one:
chaddylex
02-16-2011, 10:45 PM
I left a voicemail message with Gary Johnson of the Bonner County Sheriff's Office, asking him if there is any additional information on the circumstances of Nancy Rose's disappearance, or any photos of Nancy that they could make available.
Thanks for making the call. I took a 1/2 day of work so I could take my son to the doctor to see if he had strep throat...
Hopefully you will get a call back.
tatertot
02-19-2011, 04:55 PM
I contacted a man who runs a Facebook page for Sandpoint High School's class of 1968, thinking if Nancy Dubois Rose/Morton was 30 in 1980, she likely would have attended around the same time as his class. He directed me to the class secretary, who said both she and her husband have been residents of Sandpoint since grade school but don't recognize anyone by those names. (I didn't refer to Websleuths in the message.)
I was hoping we could at least get an old yearbook photo of her, but she must have come to the area after high school, if she even was a resident at the time of her disappearance. I cannot find anything about the disappearance in the local newspapers on Google News Archive Search.
tatertot
02-21-2011, 10:15 AM
The class secretary sent me another message from another Sandpoint graduate who later became sheriff:
"The only familiar person I can think of was Nancy Rose Martin, who drowned in upper Pack river that spring. I don't recall where she was from but she was never recovered. The Sheriff's office still has her file open and any covered human remains are checked against it. The huge hole where she went down, from a tipped over canoe, was 22 feet deep at that time. I worked on it at least once a week all summer. The hole filled with sand again by the time the water was low enough and slow enough for divers to work. Today the channel has changed and the river passes by about a hundred feet away from there. There is no question to the validity of the accident."
Very sad, and while she is highly unlikely to be BG, I'll keep looking for articles on NRM since her last name is different from what is listed on NamUs. It's good to know that she is still being compared against any UIDs in the river.
chaddylex
02-21-2011, 10:29 AM
The class secretary sent me another message from another Sandpoint graduate who later became sheriff:
"The only familiar person I can think of was Nancy Rose Martin, who drowned in upper Pack river that spring. I don't recall where she was from but she was never recovered. The Sheriff's office still has her file open and any covered human remains are checked against it. The huge hole where she went down, from a tipped over canoe, was 22 feet deep at that time. I worked on it at least once a week all summer. The hole filled with sand again by the time the water was low enough and slow enough for divers to work. Today the channel has changed and the river passes by about a hundred feet away from there. There is no question to the validity of the accident."
Very sad, and while she is highly unlikely to be BG, I'll keep looking for articles on NRM since her last name is different from what is listed on NamUs. It's good to know that she is still being compared against any UIDs in the river.
You got to wonder if the girl the Sheriff is talking about and the Nancy in NamUS is the same person... How many Nancy Rose's go missing from the same town?
Thanks tatertot for contacting them on Facebook!!
CarlK90245
02-21-2011, 08:21 PM
You got to wonder if the girl the Sheriff is talking about and the Nancy in NamUS is the same person... How many Nancy Rose's go missing from the same town?
Thanks tatertot for contacting them on Facebook!!
Looking back at the Nancy Rose's NamUs file, it says her Nickname/Alias is Nancy Dubois Morton, It's off by two vowels, but obviously the same person.
Donjeta
02-28-2011, 05:26 AM
The deceased has a long list of exclusions but Sharon Pretorius is not in it.
https://identifyus.org/cases/4790
However, Jane Doe's thread:
OH OH - "Buckskin Girl" Jane Doe, Miami Co,Graphic Image* - April 1981 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
says she's been submitted by Tatertot and the reply was that the match was ruled out by Codis.
Post #37
Cubby
02-28-2011, 05:36 AM
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OH OH - "Buckskin Girl" Jane Doe, Miami Co,Graphic Image* - April 1981
direct link to post #37 with rule out information.
i scanned through the thread and checked the namus list but please shout if this is familiar territory.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1dfnd.html Barbara Cotton is younger than estimates and can't tell about the freckles/reddish tint. Height is also a little off, and I realize that there is a day drive distance.
But, here are the similarites that make this a strong possible:
Barbara had excellent teeth. So did BJD
Barbara's left ear was lower than her right. Looks like BJD has the same from photos.
Barbara had a distinguishing mole on her upper right chest. So did BJD.
We do know BJD was transported. Thirteen days would be plenty of time to get from ND to Miami County. The height difference can easily be accounted for by innaccuracies in measurements (on either end). And Barbara's disappearance sounds like an abduction which would fit.
I think impacted wisdom teeth also lean on the side of BJD being younger.
Just my humble opinion, but I think the similarities are worth a look. Anyone in contact with LE?
Deeds
08-23-2011, 03:19 PM
Lisa Jane Borden
Missing since October 10, 1979 from Big Spring, Howard County, Texas.
Classification: Endangered Missing
Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: January 15, 1960
Age at Time of Disappearance: 19 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'8"; 140 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
Marks, Scars: Scar on left hand, as well as screws and metal in left hand from an injury sustained in an automobile accident.
Fingerprints: Not available
Dentals: Not available
DNA: Pending (sample submitted in 2007)
Circumstances Of Disappearance
Borden was last seen by her family on October 10, 1979 in Big Spring, Texas.
She called her relatives later in the month from California.
She was last known to be in Lodi, San Joaquin County. Her boyfriend sent her a plane ticket; it was never retrieved by Borden. She is a known hitchhiker.
An unknown friend told Lisa's family that she was in Amarillo working as a waitress, but gave no further details. She was reported missing by her sister.
Links:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/borden_lisa.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/14dftx.html
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=M9808001&orgPrefix=TXCH&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
CarlK90245
08-23-2011, 03:44 PM
Buckskin Girl didn't have the medical hardware in her left hand.
Deeds
08-23-2011, 07:03 PM
CarlK90245,
I wasn't sure how noticeable the implant would be, I thought maybe nothing other then scars if it was healed. I notice that Borden and the UID had scars on the left wrists. I'm not sure if you'd know but was the UID fully check for medical hardware? Also I just saw the similarities in the brows, the large eyes and forehead.
-----------
I have done some colour reconstruction of UID with the clothing and cleaned up the hair. Its the first UID reconstruction I've done so any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated!
CarlK90245
08-23-2011, 08:58 PM
CarlK90245,
I wasn't sure how noticeable the implant would be, I thought maybe nothing other then scars if it was healed. I notice that Borden and the UID had scars on the left wrists. I'm not sure if you'd know but was the UID fully check for medical hardware? Also I just saw the similarities in the brows, the large eyes and forehead.
-----------
I have done some colour reconstruction of UID with the clothing and cleaned up the hair. Its the first UID reconstruction I've done so any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated!
That is very unlikely to have been something that the MedExaminer would miss. Also, Lisa Borden was a few inches taller then Buckskin Girl. I've seen discrepancies before though.
As for tips on photoshopping techniques, it's pretty tough to give pointers without being seen. All I can say is it just takes alot of practice and a high-quality photo-editing software package. I use Corel Photopaint, but Adobe Photoshop is what most people use.
CarlK90245
08-23-2011, 09:11 PM
:bump: Bumping my own reconstructions forward, since they have been buried several pages back.
OK ... Here she is in her buckskin jacket. ... and with the right colored sweater.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithcoatfullfigure_zps70898ce2-1_zpsca529356.jpghttp://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeeth3_zps537f098e-1_zpsbae44bd1.jpg
When you look at Buckskin Girl's side-view photo, you can see that she has a much ruddier and more stern look than what is depicted in most reconstructions that I've seen.
I think she has sort of a Katherine Hepburn look, and I tried to portray that in my reconstruction.
believe09
08-23-2011, 09:26 PM
Your reconstruction looks like Simone Ridinger, CArl.
http://unsolveditn.blogspot.com/2009/09/unsolved-simone-ridinger.html
Deeds
08-24-2011, 03:28 PM
Sharon Lynn Pretorius
Missing since September 28, 1973 from Dayton, Montgomery County, Ohio
Classification: Endangered Missing
Vital Statistics
Date of Birth: April 23, 1960
Age at Time of Disappearance: 13 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'7"; 135 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Long, brown hair, worn in braids; blue eyes.
Clothing: A yellow long-sleeve sweater, blue jeans and gym shoes.
Dentals: Available
DNA: Available
Circumstances of Disappearance
Pretorius was last seen she left her home on Cornell Drive in the Dayton View neighborhood in Dayton, Ohio on September 28, 1973.
She had attended her classes at Fairview High School, where she was a freshman, gone home, had a piano lesson, and left to collect money in the neighborhood for her Journal Herald newspaper route.
Procedures at the time prohibited Pretorius's family from reporting her as a missing child until 24 hours had passed. Investigators believe she did not run away and was probably abducted and murdered. A witness saw a girl matching Pretorius's description struggling with a man near a car at the corner of Cornell and Philadelphia Drive on the day she disappeared, but the man has never been identified and the girl was not confirmed to be Pretorius.
Authorities followed up many leads in her disappearance over the years, but her case remains a mystery.
Links: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2051dfoh.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pretorius_sharon.html
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/7424/0/
-----
Accroding to NamUs as of date entered June 09, 2010: DNA Status: Initial inquiry underway.
Dental Status: Dental information / charting is available and will be entered later.
Fingerprint Information Status: Fingerprint information is currently not available.
CarlK90245
08-24-2011, 05:22 PM
Sharon Pretorius has already been ruled out, though she is not listed in Buckskin Girl's NamUs exclusions list.
Deeds
08-25-2011, 04:47 PM
one Reconstruction with reshaped chin, more freckles, more red tones on face and longer hair
Deeds
08-25-2011, 04:49 PM
Reconstruction with eyes colour and B&W
CarlK90245
08-25-2011, 04:54 PM
Reconstruction with eyes colour and B&W
Her jaws aren't that sharply angled.
Irish_Eyes
09-05-2011, 01:54 AM
Wondering does anyone know what side of the road she was found on? Could that maybe lead to a likelihood which direction she was traveling from/to?
CarlK90245
09-05-2011, 04:02 AM
Wondering does anyone know what side of the road she was found on? Could that maybe lead to a likelihood which direction she was traveling from/to?
That's a good question. I was trying to figure that out a couple of weeks ago.
All it says in NamUs is Greenlee Road. But there is a N Greenlee Road and a S Greenlee Road. The killer probably turned onto Greenlee from Arthur Road (718), which crosses under hwy 75 (a major North/South interstate). But hwy 75 doesn't exit onto Arthur Road. You have to make several turns after exiting hwy 75 from either direction.
Highway 70 (a major East/West interstate) is also nearby, but Greenlee Road would not seem to be a logical dumping area for someone heading East or West on I-70. You have to go quite a ways off the beaten path from I-70 to get to Greenlee Road to dump a body.
Irish_Eyes
09-06-2011, 12:11 AM
I see what you mean.
I've been trying to look at some of the other angles people here suggested also. Such as whether the jacket and braids were because she worked around horses, or was a historical interpreter (which doesn't fit with the turtleneck and jeans).
I came across this on a website about Ralph Lauren, which I found interesting:
1978 Ralph Lauren introduced the casual/sophisticated "prairie look", denim skirts worn over layers of white cotton petticoats, fringed buckskin jackets and full sleeved soft blouses.
I'm guessing this was a fall collection? If she was from the midwest in the days before the internet, trends used to take longer to catch on here. What my cousins on the East Coast were wearing one year didn't usually come into style here until the next year. So maybe this was just an outfit someone made for her because it was trendy at the time?
Trendy clothes, exceptional hygiene and physical fitness....she seems to have been someone who was well cared for up until this point...hard to reconcile that with the fact that no one seems to know who she is.
tatertot
09-21-2011, 09:46 AM
What about Mary Jo Lee Long, age 17?
http://charleyproject.org/cases/l/long_mary.html
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6307/0/
Charley Project updated her case yesterday (9-20-11) and has a date of last contact in Austen, Minnesota as December 27, 1981, with a note that she was seen two months later in Gardena, California on February 22, 1981. These dates conflict; perhaps she was last seen in MN in December 1980? NamUs has her last date of contact as December 27, 1981 from CA.
If her last date of contact was actually February 22, 1981, it might be worth a look since BG was found April 24, 1981. There is no DNA available for MJLL but she does bear some resemblance.
MJLL's stats
5 feet 5 inches - BG was 5 feet 4 inches to 5 feet 6 inches
115 lbs - BG was 130
Both had brown hair, brown eyes. MJLL's hair is definitely long enough to braid in BG's style and both girls have thin, plucked eyebrows.
The space between their eyebrows, their high foreheads and prominent noses and chins look alike to me.
CarlK90245
09-21-2011, 11:20 AM
I was looking at those two cases a couple of weeks ago when Mary's photo became available. I was trying to convince myself that she was BG, but ultimately I passed on it - probably due to the dates.
However, there is nothing there that says to me that it definitely isn't her, and it's probably worth checking out just to be sure. I just can't reconcile in my own mind that her overall look just doesn't look right.
CarlK90245
09-21-2011, 12:51 PM
The CA DOJ website lists Mary's DLC as 22-Feb-1982
http://dojapp.doj.ca.gov/missing/detail.asp?FCN=1861125600164
I just got on the phone with Det. Todd Clennon (not Clemen as indicated in NamUs) to see if he could resolve the issue.
He indicated that the February 82 date is poorly documented and unreliable, but the the December 1981 date is pretty solid. He says that her whereabouts prior to that date are pretty well-established.
He said that she moved to Gardena CA in Dec 1981 to live with a "low-functioning" father. She had a boyfriend and a brother who lived in the area also. Sometime in 1982, the brother came to the father and asked if he had seen her lately, and the father replied that he had not. The brother suggested to the father that they file a missing person report and the father replied that he already did. However, detectives in Minnesota were unable to find evidence of a missing person report filed in Gardena. The February 82 date is an estimate based on the brother's memory.
I mentioned the Buckskin Girl to him. At first, he said that he had already compared the two cases, but it turned out that he was talking about the Blue Bandanna Girl (who has since been ID'd as Paula Beverly Davis). When I mentioned the April 81 date for Buckskin Girl, he indicated that he is very certain that Mary's whereabouts were accounted for at that time.
He also said that LE in California has given him a list of possibles, but he hasn't had the opportunity to review all of them.
sam spade
09-21-2011, 09:12 PM
I have looked through this thread and have not seen (or have overlooked) Mary Opitz as BG. Fits the height, hair, eyes (hazel on Namus BG has "light brown" eyes) disappearance time, age, etc. Also, Mary HAD braces and BG was wearing a "plate", ie: retainer.....Her picture, if you blow it up, looks like her cheeks are somewhat blushed and it looks like she has some freckles. Also, the eyebrows are close and the nose has kind of a slant similar to the frontal morgue photo of BG. This is my first try to "match" someone up. I did not see Mary ruled out on Namus. I thank you for any constructive comments. Glad to be a part of this site. Thank you.
CarlK90245
09-21-2011, 11:14 PM
According to Charley Project, Mary Opitz "wore braces on her teeth at the time of her disappearance".
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/o/opitz_mary.html
She does have a very similar facial shape though. But as for overall resemblance, I don't see it. Especially when looking at BG's side-view photo.
sam spade
09-23-2011, 09:55 AM
According to Charley Project, Mary Opitz "wore braces on her teeth at the time of her disappearance".
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/o/opitz_mary.html
She does have a very similar facial shape though. But as for overall resemblance, I don't see it. Especially when looking at BG's side-view photo.
Yes, but even BG's frontal picture doesn't look like the profile pic! But thanks for the thoughts.
Ambercat
09-24-2011, 12:41 AM
I was wondering if this young woman did not always wear braids and that is possibly interfering with her being identified. Maybe she only wore braids when she wore that particular jacket or something of that nature? When I was about 18 and in college (about 13 years after Jane Doe was found), I used to wear my hair pulled back with a velvet bow when I wore a particular coat yet the rest of the time I wore my hair down, maybe it is something similar with her. Its unfortunate that the only sketch of her [that I know of] without braids doesn't really look at all like her.
tatertot
09-24-2011, 01:20 AM
Good point. Her jacket had a lot of fringe around the neck, and long hair would tangle with that, so it would make sense to braid one's hair into a ponytail or pigtails to keep it from tangling in the jacket. There's also the theories posted earlier in this thread that her hair could have been braided to prevent it from becoming windblown while she traveled or to create waves/curls when she unbraided it later. Her hair must have been rather long to hold braids of that length.
This is just my theory, but while she may have been kidnapped shortly before she was murdered, I think she was on her own and free when she braided her hair. Braiding hair is a task that requires time to ensure you're keeping the pigtails at even heights to each other and you're keeping all three sections of hair in each pigtail without ending up with loose hair. She already had at least two hair elastics to secure the ends of the ponytails, and she could have far more easily thrown her hair into a simple, non-braided ponytail with one of those. Braided pigtails wouldn't be a hairstyle you'd choose if you were rushed or panicked because you were being held against your will. Again, just my two cents.
CarlK90245
09-24-2011, 02:24 AM
I was wondering if this young woman did not always wear braids and that is possibly interfering with her being identified. Maybe she only wore braids when she wore that particular jacket or something of that nature? When I was about 18 and in college (about 13 years after Jane Doe was found), I used to wear my hair pulled back with a velvet bow when I wore a particular coat yet the rest of the time I wore my hair down, maybe it is something similar with her. Its unfortunate that the only sketch of her [that I know of] without braids doesn't really look at all like her.
How about this?
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeethHairDown2_zps7027 6a43-1_zpsfbfba521.jpg
Ambercat
09-25-2011, 06:24 AM
That's awesome, Carl! I wonder if it is possible to have the image distributed somehow? Maybe the new hairdo will get her identified.
webrocket
09-25-2011, 01:16 PM
for the sake of ease, here is the Namus link for Buckskin Girl as well as the list of rule outs:
https://identifyus.org/cases/4790
Ellen Akers 1966 Florida
Tammy Akers 1962 Virginia
Katherine Anderson 1954 Maryland
Maria Anjiras 1961 Connecticut
Lynn Bandringa 1945 California
Donna Barnhill 1967 North Carolina
Kristy Booth 1960 Texas
Darcy Brown 1943 Ohio
Peggy Byars-Baisden 1941 Florida
Mary Cook Spencer 1954 Maryland
Carol Donn 1963 Florida
Christine Eastin 1952 California
Carol Edwards 1955 Washington
Cherry Greenman 1956 Washington
Jamie Grissim 1955 Washington
Corinne Groenenberg 1957 California
Susan Hallowell Florida
Evelyn Hartley 1937 Wisconsin
Lorraine Herbster 1962 New Jersey
Margaret Holst 1958 Nebraska
Paulette Jaster 1954 Michigan
Rita Jolly 1955 Oregon
Vicke Lamberton 1949 Massachusetts
Carol Lubahn 1954 California
Anne Manchester 1954 Delaware
Aleca Manning 1952 Arizona
Deborah Meyer 1958 Wyoming
Barbara Monaco 1960 Virginia
Audrey Nerenberg 1958 New York
Linda Nickell 1955 Michigan
Nancy O'Sullivan 1959 Illinois
Judith ODonnell 1961 New York
Patricia Otto 1952 Idaho
Laureen Rahn 1966 New Hampshire
Angela Ramsey 1961 Florida
Elaine Robertson 1955 Washington
Alma Root 1965 California
Janis Sanders 1950 Michigan
Diane Schulte 1954 Idaho
Suzanne Schultz 1961 Wisconsin
Beverly Sharpman 1930 Pennsylvania
Catherine Sjoberg 1957 Wisconsin
Debra Spickler 1955 Connecticut
Mary Sprague 1960 Florida
Kimberly Stewart 1956 California
Belinda VanLith 1957 Minnesota
Floradean Walker 1925 Texas
Christina White 1967 Washington
Kathy Wilcox 1956 Michigan
Debra Wilhite 1955 Indiana
April Zane 1960 Illinois
Reality Orlando
09-25-2011, 03:22 PM
How about this?
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeethHairDown2_zps7027 6a43-1_zpsfbfba521.jpg
Very well done, but just a thought. If you look at the hair that's escaped from the braids, it looks course and very tightly curled/kinked. I think you are looking for a woman with a different type of hair than in the drawing.
CarlK90245
09-25-2011, 05:56 PM
Very well done, but just a thought. If you look at the hair that's escaped from the braids, it looks course and very tightly curled/kinked. I think you are looking for a woman with a different type of hair than in the drawing.
Looking at the postmortems (especially the side-view), her hair looks pretty straight to me. In the side-view, if you look at the hair rooted at the temple, there are a few locks of hair that aren't pulled into the braids, and they show no sign of kink or curl.
nerosleuth
09-26-2011, 12:30 AM
Taking into consideration BG's age and the hair styles from the late 70's and early 80's, could it be possible that she had the feathered hair style look that was popular back then?
CarlK90245
09-26-2011, 12:44 AM
Taking into consideration BG's age and the hair styles from the late 70's and early 80's, could it be possible that she had the feathered hair style look that was popular back then?
Yeah, could be. But she didn't seem to me like the type to sport the Farrah Fawcett look. Although she did pluck her eyebrows, her modest clothing and minimal makeup is more suggestive of a more earthy type of woman.
JeannieC
09-26-2011, 03:00 AM
The picture of Diane is really poor quality. Not a lot of information on her either. She does look good to me as far as the shape of the face. Size and weight. The eyes if the eyebrows were plucked and the mouth. The nose is the biggest issue. The picture isn't real clear and the nose might be too wide. I'm not sure. Freckles are not listed.
She is not in Namus.
The Doe Network:
Case File 2439DFBC
Diane Lynn Buckley
Missing since April 17, 1979 from Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Classification: Missing
Vital Statistics
•Date Of Birth: August 25, 1961
•Age at Time of Disappearance: 18 years old
•Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'4"; 130 lbs.
•Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
•Marks, Scars: Birthmark behind knee.
JeannieC
09-26-2011, 10:54 PM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/DLBuckley.jpg
http://www.doenetwork.org/
Diane Lynn Buckley
Missing since April 17, 1979 from Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Classification: Missing
Circumstances of Disappearance
In 1979 Diane Buckley left her mothers home, never to be seen again.
She worked as a cook on a fish boat.
Despite an extensive investigation, she has never been located.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Vancouver Police
604-717-2530
Email
Agency Case Number: 79-34624
Source Information:
Vancouver Police
sam spade
10-29-2011, 01:08 AM
has anyone looked at Linda Ann Miller, missing since 1973? The photos on Doe are not great but the latest pic of her w/ the dog, the nose looks an awful lot like the sideview morgue photo. Just throwing it out there. Maybe Carl can take a look...I wish family would submit better photos! Thanks.
CarlK90245
10-29-2011, 01:13 AM
has anyone looked at Linda Ann Miller, missing since 1973? The photos on Doe are not great but the latest pic of her w/ the dog, the nose looks an awful lot like the sideview morgue photo. Just throwing it out there. Maybe Carl can take a look...I wish family would submit better photos! Thanks.
Strange you should mention her. I was just looking in her high school yearbook for better photos of her. I was looking at her as a possible for this 1976 Lopez Canyon CA Jane Doe:
CA CA - Los Angeles County - White Female 587UFCA, 16-26, April 1976
Classmates has the San Rafael HS 1970 yearbook, which has her name listed among the Sophomores, but no photo.
However, she was said to have left to Mexico with a guy <Modsnip>
As for Linda being Buckskin Girl, Linda seems to have very prominent cheekbones that I don't see in BG.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Missing%20Persons%20Photos/2983523110045078242S425x425Q851_zpsa96c2fe3.jpghtt p://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithcoatfullfigure_zps70898ce2-1_zpsca529356.jpg
BG's lack of cheekbone definition is more noticeable in the postmortem photo, which is at the link below because we cannot post PM photos in open-view.
WARNING: POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK
http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/25988/2788295380045078242S600x600Q85.jpg
Irish_Eyes
10-29-2011, 01:52 AM
I'm so bad with photos when I'm on my mac...can someone please do a side by side of BG and Vali Davis?
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/davis_vali.html
Vali went missing 18 mos before BG was found. She was from Indianapolis, 2hrs or so away from BG. She's a little tall at 5'7", and a little light at 110, but I would think someone could gain/lose a few pounds in that amount of time. No DNA in NAMUS
CarlK90245
10-29-2011, 02:04 AM
I'm so bad with photos when I'm on my mac...can someone please do a side by side of BG and Vali Davis?
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/davis_vali.html
Vali went missing 18 mos before BG was found. She was from Indianapolis, 2hrs or so away from BG. She's a little tall at 5'7", and a little light at 110, but I would think someone could gain/lose a few pounds in that amount of time. No DNA in NAMUS
http://www.charleyproject.org/images/d/davis_vali.jpghttp://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeeth3_zps537f098e-1_zpsbae44bd1.jpg
Same observation as with Linda Miller, Vali has prominent cheekbones.
Irish_Eyes
10-29-2011, 02:30 AM
I really do wish we had better photos of some of these older cases...when I bumped Vali's photo up against the autopsy photo of BG, they looked strikingly similar to me. I didn't see her cheekbones as being as pronounced, but I don't doubt that Carl has a lot more experience at this than I do. So, back to the drawing board....
Irish_Eyes
10-31-2011, 02:05 AM
Hey! I'm hoping this helps us a little bit.
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Enforcement/Unsolved-Cases/Unidentified-Remains/Unidentified/Doe-(2)
There is some info here I had forgotten. Like her bra was a 32 D....not all that common....so she was skinny/petite, but noticeably buxom.
There is also some new detailed info...more specific as to where on Greenlee she was found, and also very specific info on specific scars. As soon as I saw the scar info, I remembered finding a missing case I saw recently with similar hand scars. I've tried to find it again, but no luck so far.
CarlK90245
10-31-2011, 03:23 AM
Thanks, Irish:
Until now, I wasn't able to pinpoint exactly where she was found. But here's the Google Street View of the location:
Horseshoe Bend Rd at South Greenlee Rd - Google Maps
This is a very convenient dumping spot for someone who is exiting I-75 @ W. Market Street. I was hoping to figure out whether it was more likely that the perp was driving northbound (i.e., from Kentucky) or Southbound (i.e., from Michigan). But it is just as easy a location for someone heading Southbound on I-75 as it is for someone heading Northbound.
Ambercat
10-31-2011, 06:45 PM
Strange you should mention her. I was just looking in her high school yearbook for better photos of her. I was looking at her as a possible for this 1976 Lopez Canyon CA Jane Doe:
CA CA - Los Angeles County - White Female 587UFCA, 16-26, April 1976 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6981314)
Classmates has the San Rafael HS 1970 yearbook, which has her name listed among the Sophomores, but no photo.
However, she was said to have left to Mexico with a guy named CK. <MOD SNIP>
As for Linda being Buckskin Girl, Linda seems to have very prominent cheekbones that I don't see in BG.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Missing%20Persons%20Photos/2983523110045078242S425x425Q851_zpsa96c2fe3.jpghtt p://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithcoatfullfigure_zps70898ce2-1_zpsca529356.jpg
BG's lack of cheekbone definition is more noticeable in the postmortem photo.
I know this is off-topic, but I wonder if Linda and Cary could be found near Ludlow, CA?
Irish_Eyes
12-30-2011, 08:47 PM
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeeth3_zps537f098e-1_zpsbae44bd1.jpghttp://www.missingadults.ca/caseimages/01004_Image_L.jpg
Red hair, brown eyes, 5'6", at older end of age range, and would have had to travel from Canada.
??
http://www.missingadults.ca/viewMAcase.php?case=ON-MF-1978-12-01004
Previous Case - Next Case
Name : HARVEY (ROUSSEAU), Pamela
Case : ON-MF-1978-12-01004
Date Of Disappearance : 15 December 1978
Location Of Disappearance : Sudbury, Ontario
Age At Disappearance : 23 years
Height (estimate) : 168 cm (5'6")
Weight (estimate) : 57 kg (125 lbs)
Hair Colour : Red
- reddish/blonde hair, worn long
Eye Colour : Brown
Gender : Female
Race : Caucasian
Dental Information :
Unknown
Medical Information :
Unknown
Notable Identifiers :
Unknown
Clothing/Jewelry :
Unknown
Other Personal Items :
Unknown
Additional Information :
In December 1978, Pamela left her son with a neighbour and never returned. Her family had expected her during the Christmas holidays but Pamela did not attend. Further inquiry showed that Pamela had been missing for some time.
Since the exact date of her disappearance is unknown, the 15th should be viewed as an estimate only.
All of Pamela's identification and personal belongings were left behind.
Contact :
Greater Sudbury Police Service
705-675-9171
OR
Crime Stoppers
705-675-8477 or 1-800-222-8477
Source Links :
Greater Sudbury Police Service
Last Modified :
2008-05-26
CarlK90245
12-30-2011, 09:55 PM
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeeth3_zps537f098e-1_zpsbae44bd1.jpghttp://www.missingadults.ca/caseimages/01004_Image_L.jpg
Red hair, brown eyes, 5'6", at older end of age range, and would have had to travel from Canada.
??
http://www.missingadults.ca/viewMAcase.php?case=ON-MF-1978-12-01004
...
Here is an illustration of what I look for when comparing possible matches to Buckskin Girl:
In the close-up of BG's right temple (on the right), if you draw a vertical line down from the outside of the eye socket, you can see that her right cheekbone doesn't extend at all outside of that vertical plane. Most people have at least a little lateral definition of the cheekbones, but BG has absolutely none. The only portion of her head that extends to our left (her right) of the red line is her temple.
With Pamela Harvey, you can see (as illustrated by the dashed line), that her cheekbones have a moderate degree of lateral extension.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Side-By-Side%20Comparisons/2063029610045078242S600x600Q851_zpsce857020.jpg
Irish_Eyes
12-30-2011, 10:06 PM
I do see what you're saying. So this makes BG fairly unique then?
CarlK90245
12-30-2011, 10:27 PM
I do see what you're saying. So this makes BG fairly unique then?
I wouldn't say it's unique or extremely rare. but I would say it's fairly unusual. And for the people who look like BG in other respects, you can usually eliminate them on that basis.
Over the past few weeks, I've been browsing yearbooks for high schools along I-75 from Troy OH to the Michigan Border, including the entire city of Toledo, and I've come up with only a few who really look like her. I saw one girl from Piqua OH who looked like her spot-on, but she appeared to be missing an upper left lateral incisor (#10), and I found her listed on the internet in a people search site.
There's also a girl (initials BAR) whose senior photo is in the 1974 St. Ursula Academy (Toledo OH) yearbook who looks alot like BG, and has a similar lack of cheekbone definition. But I think I may have found her listed in an online obituary as a surviving relative of the decedent, so I don't want to post her photo online. Her name is fairly uncommon, but I see other people with the same name who are not the same age, so it's hard to tell whether I've found her online or not.
ETA: If anyone is curious about who I'm talking about, PM me, and I will show you the photo.
Irish_Eyes
12-30-2011, 10:56 PM
Interesting. I would guess that a girl who went to St. Ursula probably would have had boy or girl friends who attended the University of Dayton. It is a popular choice of colleges for Catholic students (or those who can afford it, anyway.)
ebbie
12-30-2011, 11:18 PM
Here is an illustration of what I look for when comparing possible matches to Buckskin Girl:
In the close-up of BG's right temple (on the right), if you draw a vertical line down from the outside of the eye socket, you can see that her right cheekbone doesn't extend at all outside of that vertical plane. Most people have at least a little lateral definition of the cheekbones, but BG has absolutely none. The only portion of her head that extends to our left (her right) of the red line is her temple.
With Pamela Harvey, you can see (as illustrated by the dashed line), that her cheekbones have a moderate degree of lateral extension.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Side-By-Side%20Comparisons/2063029610045078242S600x600Q851_zpsce857020.jpg
I'm not sure its fair to compare the facial shape of a living upright person with that of a dead prone women with head trauma. In the post mortem pic, BG seems to be really swollen in the face IMO. In fact, her head seems tilted up as if resting on a support. I'm wondering if these two things are distorting her natural facial shape and giving her a sort of wider double chin/neck look. The cause of death included head and neck injuries...maybe she even had a broken cheek.
I'm just saying, the pic may be a misleading representation of her face shape.
What is interesting to me are the very pencil thin eyebrows and the micro-short bangs (if thats what they are) in the front which just don't make for an authentic hippie look. I can see the braids and buckskin as an attempt at a native American look but again those eyebrows kind of clash so I would guess she wasn't hardcore into the look. Maybe it was a temporary fad for her that she was trying out. The eyebrows and the eyes in general make me think she was in her 20's too.
CarlK90245
12-31-2011, 01:31 AM
I'm not sure its fair to compare the facial shape of a living upright person with that of a dead prone women with head trauma. In the post mortem pic, BG seems to be really swollen in the face IMO. In fact, her head seems tilted up as if resting on a support. I'm wondering if these two things are distorting her natural facial shape and giving her a sort of wider double chin/neck look. The cause of death included head and neck injuries...maybe she even had a broken cheek.
I'm just saying, the pic may be a misleading representation of her face shape.
I agree that the double-chin look is probably a postmortem effect, and it's somewhat difficult to assess the shape of her chin and jawline. but her cheekbone structure is what it is. She was hit on the top of the forehead, but there don't appear to be any injuries or significant swelling near her cheekbones. The front of her cheeks probably appear less fleshy as the result of the postmortem lack of blood pressure. But that wouldn't affect the areas that I outlined in my illustration.
malaika
01-04-2012, 05:39 PM
Hi,
This is my first post here. The jacket interested me as well. I googled buckskin jacket and I found the picture below on ebay. I e-mailed the seller for info and he replied that there was a white tag inside the jacket that said "made in mexico". That was the only information he had on the jacket. I believe it's the same jacket, in better condition. I found another one made identical just in a different color and have emailed that seller to see what if any info they can provide. I don't know if this helps, but I'll keep searching for info on the jacket.
Thanks for letting me share,
Jen
I had the same thought about the poncho looking like a Mexican poncho. Good eye.
Irish_Eyes
01-04-2012, 06:09 PM
Carl's initial braided hair depiction reminded me of Melissa Gilbert's portrayal of Laura Ingalls Wilder on Little House on the Prairie. I know the show was popular around that time. I even looked to see if there were any prairie themed festivals going on around that time. There was a sugar maple festival not too far away from where she was found. Looking at the schedule for this year's festival it didn't seem to me that it would be the type of thing people would dress up for. Probably it is mostly attended by people in the very local area also, and if she went missing from nearby I think we'd know who she was by now.
Forensic fan
01-04-2012, 06:19 PM
Carl's initial braided hair depiction reminded me of Melissa Gilbert's portrayal of Laura Ingalls Wilder on Little House on the Prairie. I know the show was popular around that time. I even looked to see if there were any prairie themed festivals going on around that time. There was a sugar maple festival not too far away from where she was found. Looking at the schedule for this year's festival it didn't seem to me that it would be the type of thing people would dress up for. Probably it is mostly attended by people in the very local area also, and if she went missing from nearby I think we'd know who she was by now.
I am from Troy and live near Piqua, they have a heritage festival just outside Piqua each year, where they have Re-enactments of Mountain men and Indian emcampments each year at the old Col. Johnston farm, there used to be an Indian agency located there. Not sure what year the festivals started.
pepagirl
01-05-2012, 12:35 AM
I am from Troy and live near Piqua, they have a heritage festival just outside Piqua each year, where they have Re-enactments of Mountain men and Indian emcampments each year at the old Col. Johnston farm, there used to be an Indian agency located there. Not sure what year the festivals started.
I had only just looked at the PM photo's of BG and had the exact thought before I even read this post. I was already googling local events in in Troy to see if they had Indian Wars reenactments or something. The over all look, the eyebrows and sweater underneath etc, paired with the poncho and braids just screams costume to me, jmho tho.
nerosleuth
01-13-2012, 07:25 PM
I am from Troy and live near Piqua, they have a heritage festival just outside Piqua each year, where they have Re-enactments of Mountain men and Indian emcampments each year at the old Col. Johnston farm, there used to be an Indian agency located there. Not sure what year the festivals started.
What month is the heritage festival held?
Kimster
02-11-2012, 02:48 AM
What month is the heritage festival held?
Labor Day weekend
http://www.piquaheritagefestival.com/
JeannieC
02-12-2012, 01:21 AM
I grew up in Ohio and it suddenly dawned on me that her remains were located in Miami County, Ohio. The county is named after the Miami Indians. As a child we visited many indian villages and historical settlements in Ohio. People were dressed in costume in all of the villages. She might have worked in one of these settlements or villages.
reasypeasy
02-12-2012, 08:57 AM
In my opinion Lisa Marie Mott is similar enough in appearance to mention but from completely wrong continent and several years too young. Height difference could be accounted for by time lag between disappearence and death. Her face is close though especially when you allow for 6 months of maturation, and her coloring too, if she got more sun (maybe doing agricultural work?) she might be both more freckled and ruddier.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/192dfwau.html
Also, could the odd cut of the girl's fringe be down to the killer taking a lock of hair?
CarlK90245
02-12-2012, 12:03 PM
There's no way IMO, that Buckskin girl was only 12-13 years old. All of her wisdom teeth were fully erupted. She does look quite similar though.
chaddylex
03-07-2012, 10:18 AM
I received an email from NamUS stating that an exclusion was added today to the rule out list. I am not exactly sure who the recent exclusion is, the list now has 54 people listed. https://identifyus.org/cases/4790
lonene rogers is not on the rule out list, but after some sleuthing i found a podcast with her daughter and apparently she has been ruled out...
darn, the looks were really similar.
Shamrocker99
04-03-2012, 04:18 AM
This will be my first time suggesting someone, but what about Barbara Cotton missing April 11, 1981 from North Dakota? Her face looks similar and she could have been hitchhiking for several days before being killed! The age is slightly younger, but she could have been a "well endowed" 15 year old--although 100 pounds might be a little light for someone with that chest size.
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/2921/33/
Woodland
04-03-2012, 09:37 AM
What strikes me about this UF is she is another case of a well cared for person who must have had somewhere to be that no one can identify.
I like the comment in post #204, 30 Dec 2011 that she may have traveled down from Canada. That is what I have started to think in the last week or so - some of the cared for women (good dental, clothing etc) found on American soil may not be American, and those found north of the 49th parallel are not Canadian. They may not be North American at all.
Could someone have brought women from poor countries to NA with a promise of a better life, therefore the families are unaware what may have happened to them?
Melonie Biddersingh (formerly known only as the suitcase murder) is a prime example.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41284&highlight=ontario
Maybe it's time to reach out to other countries for identification purposes.
CarlK90245
04-03-2012, 12:16 PM
This will be my first time suggesting someone, but what about Barbara Cotton missing April 11, 1981 from North Dakota? Her face looks similar and she could have been hitchhiking for several days before being killed! The age is slightly younger, but she could have been a "well endowed" 15 year old--although 100 pounds might be a little light for someone with that chest size.
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/2921/33/
According to Charley Project, Barbara Cotton had pierced ears (which Buckskin Girl didn't), and scoliosis (of which there is no mention for BG).
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/cotton_barbara.html
Nevertheless, i'm sure that Barbara Cotton has been checked out, even though she is not listed on the NamUs rule-out listing. Same goes for Sharon Pretorius. She is not on the rule-out list, but definitely has been ruled-out.
Woodland
04-03-2012, 12:54 PM
I'm wondering if anyone has read what BG may have been strangled with.
Well cared for BG seems similar to me to the well cared for UF found in East Haven, CT on 16 August 1975 - previous orthodontic care, cosmetic surgery and found with black antenna wire wrapped around her neck, waist and knees.
Also to well cared for UF found McDonald Couty, MO on 2 December 1990 - expensive dental work and bound/strangled with coaxial TV cable. Travel between these 3 locations is very easy. There are a few in Canada as well - expensive dental work and at least one strangled with coaxial cable.
It's so hard to imagine women with access to money to go unidentified and unclaimed. Someone did care at one point in their lives.
traacker13
04-13-2012, 09:23 PM
i scanned through the thread and checked the namus list but please shout if this is familiar territory.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1dfnd.html Barbara Cotton is younger than estimates and can't tell about the freckles/reddish tint. Height is also a little off, and I realize that there is a day drive distance.
But, here are the similarites that make this a strong possible:
Barbara had excellent teeth. So did BJD
Barbara's left ear was lower than her right. Looks like BJD has the same from photos.
Barbara had a distinguishing mole on her upper right chest. So did BJD.
We do know BJD was transported. Thirteen days would be plenty of time to get from ND to Miami County. The height difference can easily be accounted for by innaccuracies in measurements (on either end). And Barbara's disappearance sounds like an abduction which would fit.
I think impacted wisdom teeth also lean on the side of BJD being younger.
Just my humble opinion, but I think the similarities are worth a look. Anyone in contact with LE?
This is EXACTLY who I found when researching too and had an "ah ha" moment. I submitted it to LE and was just about to post that I think this is her when I searched and found that she was already posted about. Did you ever submit to LE about her KPDX?
traacker13
04-13-2012, 09:27 PM
Even though there is some conflicting information between the descriptions, I highlighted the information that was similar. This is what I sent to LE about Barbara and a possible match for this UID:
She disappeared on April 11, 1981
She has a mole on the right side of her chest (as does Buckskin girl)
She has a noticeably lower left ear (as mentioned on Barbara's profile)
The nose of Buckskin girl was very unique with the nose shifting slightly to the right and the right nostril being much smaller than the left. If you look at Barbara's image and the image of the Buckskin girl the noses are an exact match
Barbara has long brown hair and brown eyes
i never submitted because we had some debate about it...and i was waiting to see if i could get some better pictures from barbara's family. i am glad you submitted, though, i think its a good possible.
Cymro
04-16-2012, 07:57 PM
Also good:
Barbara had "excellent teeth." Doe had teeth "in good condition."
Barbara left wearing jeans. Doe was wearing jeans (not surprising, but anything else could have been a strike).
Timeline is pretty good - 1,300 or 1,400 miles covered in 12 days.
Barbara's skin appears to be freckled, like Doe. Eye color is imprecise but consistent in both.
Barbara's face/jawline appear to be somewhat asymmetrical, as does Doe in the reconstructions (but this is very weak, due to the range of drawings and photographs available).
Bad:
Pierced ears on Barbara, not on Doe.
Doe's measurements are much larger - a chesty 130 lbs and 5'5" mean, vs 100 lbs and 5'2". 32D probably isn't that noticeable though - a D cup is much bigger at 36 I believe than at 32.
Doe has a scar on her chin; no mention of that on Barbara. Similarly, no mention of Barbara's neck mole on Doe. No mention of Barbara's curved spine on Doe, either.
DNA is with the local crime lab. Barbara only has mDNA rather than nuclear, as well, so even if Doe is now in CODIS, that might not be an automatic rule out.
traacker13
04-18-2012, 09:06 AM
I contacted LE about this and here is part of the response that I received.
"Boy, you got my heart racing on this one. But Barbara Cotton has a mouthful of fillings, and Buckskin girl had perfect teeth except for a crown on a front tooth (assumed it was a chipped tooth). The rest is very compelling. I will pass this on to the detective and make sure he is totally positive that the dental information on the deceased is accurate, but I can't imagine it's not. A dentist did examine the victim and made a chart and notes in the autopsy report."
I am confused by this response because I assumed that based on the information in Barbara's profile she seemed to have "excellent teeth" I find it difficult to accept that the dentals for her are accurate knowing that someone would make that remark for a person that had a "mouthful of fillings"
Does anyone know how to verify or who we could contact to see if the dentals for Barbara are accurate? Anyway we might be able to get in touch with any family members that may be able to help us?
The family has referred specific questions to the Williston LE
Williston Police Department
Lieutenant Mark Hanson
Missing Persons Unit
701-577-1212
Detective Division
Cory Collings - Detective Sergeant
collings@ci.williston.nd.us
8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
NAMUS notes Barbara's dentals are available and entered, wondering if someone contacts WPD if they could ask them to make the dentals public?
I also got in contact with Barbara's sister to see if she had another photo which showed either Barbara's profile or her ears more clearly. She said she would look, but also referred me to WPD, so I think that is the best bet.
I typically can't make calls during business hours (on the West Coast)...but if y'all want me to email I am happy to do so. I know CarlK has had more success with phone calls for these smaller LE departments.
traacker13
04-18-2012, 01:34 PM
The family has referred specific questions to the Williston LE
Williston Police Department
Lieutenant Mark Hanson
Missing Persons Unit
701-577-1212
Detective Division
Cory Collings - Detective Sergeant
collings@ci.williston.nd.us
8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
NAMUS notes Barbara's dentals are available and entered, wondering if someone contacts WPD if they could ask them to make the dentals public?
I also got in contact with Barbara's sister to see if she had another photo which showed either Barbara's profile or her ears more clearly. She said she would look, but also referred me to WPD, so I think that is the best bet.
I typically can't make calls during business hours (on the West Coast)...but if y'all want me to email I am happy to do so. I know CarlK has had more success with phone calls for these smaller LE departments.
KPDX I think that would be wonderful! This is great that you have this information and know where to turn. If you'd like to email them or call them and see if the dentals could be double checked or made public I think that would be fantastic! I am hopeful that there was some sort of mistake with the initial comparison....
Eoanthropus Dawsoni
04-18-2012, 01:48 PM
April of 1981 was the height of the previous oil boom in Williston. Then, as now, we had people constantly coming and going from everywhere in the USA and Canada.
Ok, I sent an email to WPD and Barbara's sister following up about dentals and seeing if any additional photos are available.
I am super excited at the reaction from Ohio LE, as my gut felt pretty strongly Barbara was a good possible match. What a wonderful gift it would be to finally give her family some answers and peace!
April of 1981 was the height of the previous oil boom in Williston. Then, as now, we had people constantly coming and going from everywhere in the USA and Canada.
That is so interesting! Can you elaborate? That might be really useful info for finding Barbara!
Eoanthropus Dawsoni
04-18-2012, 02:12 PM
That is so interesting! Can you elaborate? That might be really useful info for finding Barbara!
Williston is an oil town. During the late 70's and early 80's there was a huge influx of people from all over the country. It's an area where in normal times crime is rare, but during the oil booms there are so many people pouring into the area that law enforcement can't keep up. Things were really crazy in those days. There was a lot of drug crime, and the domestic calls were non-stop. When we were not dealing with a domestic or a property crime we would be busy on the highways trying to keep the drunk drivers from killing people. Many crimes were unsolved because people would come in to town from anywhere, and be gone the next day.
Williston learned a lot from that period, so during the present boom they do have a better handle on the situation. However anyone who followed the Sherry Arnold threads would know that LE is once again being overwhelmed by outsiders.
LucyOso
04-22-2012, 08:05 AM
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/photos/full/3502
I was wondering if Buckskin Girl could be Tracey. Her name isn't eliminated in Namus. As she was 14 when she disappeared the 2 inches in height would not be a big deal as she would grow until age 16 at least. Also, I noticed a birthmark/freckle on both nose bridges and chin. I can't tell the other marks due to picture quality (over exposure maybe) and the UID has not been "cleaned up well." Both have scars on their ankles. UID has other scars, but with a time elapse it is possible. Any chance she ran away or left by choice?
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=701787&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
http://doenetwork.org/cases/342dfpa.html
JeannieC
04-23-2012, 03:19 PM
I know it's a long shot but could the Buckskin girl be Judy Martins. Judy went missing May 24, 1978 from Kent State Ohio. She was 22 years old, 5'4" and 120 lbs. She wore contacts or glasses but her glasses were left behind. Black hair and hazel eyes. Her pictures aren't clear enough to see if she has freckles.
Her disappearance was thought to be an abduction. The campus police didn't report her missing to her parents for two days. The investigation was slow to start since the students had gone home for the Memorial Day Holiday.
She is not listed in the Doe Network or in Namus.
http://www.charleyproject.org/images/m/martins_judy.jpg https://identifyus.org/en/medias/thumb/4019http://www.charleyproject.org/images/m/martins_judy2.jpghttps://identifyus.org/en/medias/thumb/4020
Judy does have a WS thread.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/martins_judy.html
JeannieC
04-23-2012, 03:31 PM
Carl Question. Who has to be contacted in order to have her put into Namus?
tatertot
06-01-2012, 10:07 AM
The height is off and there's a time gap between the disappearance and the UID's discovery, but IMHO Eileen Francis Hynson resembles her at least slightly, and we have both front and side profiles for the UID and MP alike:
MP:
http://charleyproject.org/cases/h/hynson_eileen.html
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/14520/0/
UID:
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/4790
I can't help with any useful thoughts today, so I used my humble graphic skills and tried to make a little reconstruction of BG looks. I hope it will help.
http://macabre.blox.pl/resource/buckskindoe.jpg
LucyOso
06-03-2012, 06:15 PM
I can't help with any useful thoughts today, so I used my humble graphic skills and tried to make a little reconstruction of BG looks. I hope it will help.
http://macabre.blox.pl/resource/buckskindoe.jpg
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/photos/full/3502http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeeth3_zps537f098e-1_zpsbae44bd1.jpg
I posted this before...but...not sure how to rule her out. Thanks for the images on the forum...:-) I am not good at pics...sorry.
I was wondering if Buckskin Girl could be Tracey. Her name isn't eliminated in Namus. As she was 14 when she disappeared in 1975. The 2 inches in height would not be a big deal as she would grow until age 16 at least. Also, I noticed a birthmark/freckle on both nose bridges and chin. I can't tell the other marks due to picture quality (over exposure maybe) and the UID has not been "cleaned up well." Both have scars on their ankles. UID has other scars, but with a time elapse it is possible. Any chance she ran away or left by choice?
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=701787&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
http://doenetwork.org/cases/342dfpa.html
Irish_Eyes
06-03-2012, 08:02 PM
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/photos/full/3502http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeeth3_zps537f098e-1_zpsbae44bd1.jpg
I posted this before...but...not sure how to rule her out. Thanks for the images on the forum...:-) I am not good at pics...sorry.
I was wondering if Buckskin Girl could be Tracey. Her name isn't eliminated in Namus. As she was 14 when she disappeared in 1975. The 2 inches in height would not be a big deal as she would grow until age 16 at least. Also, I noticed a birthmark/freckle on both nose bridges and chin. I can't tell the other marks due to picture quality (over exposure maybe) and the UID has not been "cleaned up well." Both have scars on their ankles. UID has other scars, but with a time elapse it is possible. Any chance she ran away or left by choice?
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=701787&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
http://doenetwork.org/cases/342dfpa.html
Earlier on this thread there are actual photos of BG. If you compare Tracy against those photos, I don't think they are a match.
LucyOso
06-04-2012, 01:59 AM
Earlier on this thread there are actual photos of BG. If you compare Tracy against those photos, I don't think they are a match.
Thanks. The one of Tracey I saw on Missing Kids had an age progression and it did look similar to the actual photos. I am horrible at making thumbnails and pictures and such...sorry. I did notice they had similar birthmarks and scars though...:banghead:
sam spade
06-09-2012, 10:39 PM
Hi all...
Just going thru the updates on the Charley Project and I came across this missing girl from 1978. I think she looks a lot like Buckskin...same height range, hair color-length, eyes...and the mouth and teeth strike me as being very similar. Her name is Shiela Pierce. BTW: Sheila disappeared from Point Pleasant, West Virginia which is only 3 hours and 12 minutes from where Buckskin was found in Ohio.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pierce_sheila.html
Let me know what you think.
Thanks for your time!
CarlK90245
06-09-2012, 11:40 PM
I was looking at her in comparison to BG when I first saw her MP flyer in the WV State Police website.
They do have some very interesting similarities. Their facial shapes are pretty consistent. At 5'7", she is slightly taller than BG's measured height, but I've seen too many incorrect heights to rely on that.
At the time, I decided that I couldn't reconcile her smallish nose to BG's big pointy nose (as can be seen in the side-view postmortem photo). I also thought that she also doesn't have the same ruddy freckly look like BG has.
But she might be worth a look nevertheless. The photo of her is very poor quality, so she might have a larger nose and more freckly complexion than appears in the photo.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Missing%20Persons%20Photos/2600599300045078242S425x425Q851_zps7d81d682.jpghtt p://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeeth3_zps537f098e-1_zpsbae44bd1.jpg
ETA: Her mother passed away last year, and Sheila is listed as having preceded her mother in death.
http://www.dealfh.com/fh/obituaries/obituary.cfm?o_id=1210070&fh_id=13621
Irish_Eyes
06-10-2012, 01:07 AM
I was looking at her in comparison to BG when I first saw her MP flyer in the WV State Police website.
They do have some very interesting similarities. Their facial shapes are pretty consistent. At 5'7", she is slightly taller than BG's measured height, but I've seen too many incorrect heights to rely on that.
At the time, I decided that I couldn't reconcile her smallish nose to BG's big pointy nose (as can be seen in the side-view postmortem photo). I also thought that she also doesn't have the same ruddy freckly look like BG has.
But she might be worth a look nevertheless. The photo of her is very poor quality, so she might have a larger nose and more freckly complexion than appears in the photo.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Missing%20Persons%20Photos/2600599300045078242S425x425Q851_zps7d81d682.jpghtt p://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20001/BuckskinGirlReconwithsweaterTeeth3_zps537f098e-1_zpsbae44bd1.jpg
ETA: Her mother passed away last year, and Sheila is listed as having preceded her mother in death.
http://www.dealfh.com/fh/obituaries/obituary.cfm?o_id=1210070&fh_id=13621
I debated on her too....she would have been 27 in 1981, and with that and the height difference, I was kind of wavering, even though I definitely see a resemblance between the two. That looks like a yearbook photo, maybe? Wonder if we could get a better one?
CarlK90245
06-10-2012, 01:21 AM
... That looks like a yearbook photo, maybe? Wonder if we could get a better one?
I already looked. For Point Pleasant HS, the only book Classmates has is the Class of 1945.
Irish_Eyes
06-10-2012, 01:25 AM
Well, not Sheila, I guess?? From this it would seem she had a tattoo:
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.wears/7/mb.ashx
CarlK90245
06-10-2012, 01:35 AM
Well, not Sheila, I guess?? From this it would seem she had a tattoo:
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.wears/7/mb.ashx
For those without access to Ancestry:
There are three messages:
I am searching for information about Sheila Wears married to Chuck Pierce in Point Pleasant West Virgina in the early 1970's. From what I am told Sheila went missing sometime around 1976. I have been told serial killer Henry Lee Lucas confessed to murdering her, but was not convicted of her murder because the was no evidence. I have tried to look up info in the Point Pleasant paper, but since I have no exact date I can't find a published story. If you have any information on the whereabouts of Sheila or know the dates of her disappearance please respond.
Hi Marsha,
I am the sister -in-law of Sheila's uncle . We all have been trying to find info about her disappearance. My sister has been very involved in the case. Also, the year Shelia went missing was 1978 around Dec. I think.
There is a police officer in Pt. Pleasant who is looking for answers. You may want to contact him. His name is Eddie Starcher. If you gain any info or have any more clues that would help, please keep me posted.
Henry Lucas did confess and though he did know certain details such where Shelias' tattoo was located and and a rash from being touched by metal, she was allergic to any metal, even the snaps on her jeans. He didn't know other details, so it wasn't enough to go for a convictiion. Good luck on your search..Our family wants very much to learn anything about Shelia's whereabouts. We need that closure.
Jeanne
Is it true that Henry Lee Lucus was at the Pierce family reunion with someone named Knuckles? I know that the Wears family is related to the Knuckles family as your Great Grandma Ida's mother was a Knuckles, but that doesn't say why he was there for the Pierce side. Just curious. I heard that her billfold was found in the river a year after her disappearance. Someone sent me a clipping if you want to see it let me know. I will send it to you.
LucyOso
06-10-2012, 10:59 AM
Did they have fingerprints on file for Buckskin girl? Just curious because if her clothes were outdated for the time, any possibility she was in jail or prison for a few years and was released with the clothes she came in with? I am not sure how fingerprinting worked back then or if there was a national database or if all fingerprints have been entered into a database since then? If she was a juvenile would the records have been retained..?
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