View Full Version : Dunkin' Donuts yanks Rachel Ray Ad
Paladin
05-29-2008, 08:03 AM
Does Dunkin’ Donuts really think its customers could mistake Rachael Ray for a terrorist sympathizer? The Canton-based company has abruptly canceled an ad in which the domestic diva wears a scarf that looks like a keffiyeh, a traditional headdress worn by Arab men.
picture: http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2008/05/27/1211929942_3205.jpg
more: http://www.boston.com/ae/celebrity/articles/2008/05/27/dunkin_donuts_yanks_rachael_ray_ad/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed1/
You guys know I hate Rachel Ray, but this is the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
golfmom
05-29-2008, 08:08 AM
I was just poppin' over here to post this story.
This is sooooooooooooo stupid it hurts.
XcomSquaddie
05-29-2008, 08:10 AM
Just for once I'd like to see a celebrity get up and say "IT'S A F*****G SCARF. GET OVER IT!!!"
kahskye
05-29-2008, 08:10 AM
Oh please! How ridiculous!
Karole28
05-29-2008, 08:25 AM
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_03/bag180907_468x679.jpg
It's just a symbol, right (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482476/Zara-bosses-forced-withdraw-Swastika-handbags-shelves.html)?
Here's a quick google for more "symbols"
http://www.stormfront.org/images/header_p1-uc.jpg
Symbols have no meaning other than what we give them. Some have more "meaning" than others.
Paladin
05-29-2008, 08:31 AM
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_03/bag180907_468x679.jpg
It's just a symbol, right (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482476/Zara-bosses-forced-withdraw-Swastika-handbags-shelves.html)?
Here's a quick google for more "symbols"
http://www.stormfront.org/images/header_p1-uc.jpg
Symbols have no meaning other than what we give them. Some have more "meaning" than others.
This is a bit different.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 08:39 AM
This is a bit different.
To some maybe. Not to the victims of Fatah, Hamas and the Palestinians in general.
Now, on to "Che" fashionistas!
XcomSquaddie
05-29-2008, 08:40 AM
Symbols have no meaning other than what we give them. Some have more "meaning" than others.
Ironically, the swastika has been created and used by various cultures around the world for thousands of years, including Native American tribes. Extremely ironically, it was considered a good luck symbol, like a four-leaf clover.
Now of course...
In this case however, symbolism does not apply. The scarf in question is not intended to resemble a head-rag*. It is a fringed scarf with a paisly pattern. That's it. Nothing more. Additionally, it is being worn as a scarf and not wrapped around her head.
A good analogy would be busting a college fraternity for having a toga party and charging them with racial crimes because they look like the KKK.
Does a toga look like a KKK uniform? No, but it is white, made of a sheet and covers the body.
That's the level of stupidity we're getting here.
*Not to offend anyone, but I have little respect for the arab culture and arab men in particular. When they start showing some respect for their women, then maybe I'll think about it.
Paladin
05-29-2008, 08:46 AM
To some maybe. Not to the victims of Fatah, Hamas and the Palestinians in general.
Now, on to "Che" fashionistas!
Come to think of it...I was wronged by a woman a few years ago. She was wearing a shirt and a bra.
We better ban shirts and bras on women (the hot ones at least)!
Karole28
05-29-2008, 08:47 AM
Ironically, the swastika has been created and used by various cultures around the world for thousands of years, including Native American tribes. Extremely ironically, it was considered a good luck symbol, like a four-leaf clover.
Now of course...
The iron cross anyone? Yes, I know. However, much like the Confederate flag, symbols take on new meanings over time.
In this case however, symbolism does not apply. The scarf in question is not intended to resemble a head-rag*. It is a fringed scarf with a paisly pattern. That's it. Nothing more. Additionally, it is being worn as a scarf and not wrapped around her head.
It's ignorance. Like the swastika that is nothing more than a design on a hand bag, it has no place in polite society, no matter the intention.
In addition:
The keffiyeh (http://www.midnightpoutine.ca/fashion/2008/02/the_keffiyeh_politics_or_fashion/) grew into a symbol of Palestinian nationalism in the 1960s and eventually became a trademark of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. He wore his black and white scarf in a distinctive arrangement, draping it over his right shoulder in a triangular shape that mimicked the outlines of Palestine.
Unless you want to be dragged into a discourse on International relations and the current state of affairs, I'd advise anyone on wearing a traditional "look what my ma knitted me" type of neck warmer on the street.
A good analogy would be busting a college fraternity for having a toga party and charging them with racial crimes because they look like the KKK.
Does a toga look like a KKK uniform? No, but it is white, made of a sheet and covers the body.
That's the level of stupidity we're getting here.
Your analogy is poor. But, I do find some truth in your last statement. :rolleyes:
Paladin
05-29-2008, 08:49 AM
The iron cross anyone? Yes, I know. However, much like the Confederate flag, symbols take on new meanings over time.
I
It's ignorance. Like the swastika that is nothing more than a design on a hand bag, it has no place in polite society, no matter the intention.
In addition:
The keffiyeh (http://www.midnightpoutine.ca/fashion/2008/02/the_keffiyeh_politics_or_fashion/)grew into a symbol of Palestinian nationalism in the 1960s and eventually became a trademark of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. He wore his black and white scarf in a distinctive arrangement, draping it over his right shoulder in a triangular shape that mimicked the outlines of Palestine.
Unless you want to be dragged into a discourse on International relations and the current state of affairs, I'd advise anyone on wearing a traditional "look what my ma knitted me" type of neck warmer on the street.
Your analogy is poor. But, I do find some truth in your last statement. :rolleyes:
Wow, you're not rude at all. Really...you're not. :rolleyes:
Jen_in_Indy
05-29-2008, 08:49 AM
In this case however, symbolism does not apply. The scarf in question is not intended to resemble a head-rag*. It is a fringed scarf with a paisly pattern. That's it. Nothing more. Additionally, it is being worn as a scarf and not wrapped around her head.
I completely agree. The whole thing is ridiculous. It's a women's scarf for heaven's sake!! It's a fashion accessory, not a jihadist statement.:banghead:
Karole28
05-29-2008, 08:49 AM
Come to think of it...I was wronged by a woman a few years ago. She was wearing a shirt and a bra.
We better ban shirts and bras on women (the hot ones at least)!
You should form a committee and start a study STAT!
(you could probably get federal money) :)
Karole28
05-29-2008, 08:51 AM
I completely agree. The whole thing is ridiculous. It's a women's scarf for heaven's sake!! It's a fashion accessory, not a jihadist statement.:banghead:
It's like the Che shirts, seriously, or that idiot Cameron Diaz taking a purse with the Mao symbol to Peru. People who don't know what they're supporting, and don't know history, should stick to Garanimals.
XcomSquaddie
05-29-2008, 09:21 AM
The iron cross anyone? Yes, I know. However, much like the Confederate flag, symbols take on new meanings over time. The Confederate flag started out as a symbol of slavery and the south. By default it had racial overtones. It's evoloution into a symbol of racism and oppression is not nearly as dramatic as that of the swastika. The swastika started out as a symbol of good luck and hope and evolved into a symbol of hatred and evil.
It's ignorance. Like the swastika that is nothing more than a design on a hand bag, it has no place in polite society, no matter the intention. It's oversensitivity. The swastika purse, I'll give you. That is definitely wrong. But everytime someone sees a vague image they start yelling.
http://www.snopes.com/business/hidden/vans.asp
There was a similarly stupid flap a while back about the patterns on a shoe popular among skateboarders. It's not rational to see anti-semitism, racism, or whatever other sin you want, lurking around every corner.
In addition:
The keffiyeh (http://www.midnightpoutine.ca/fashion/2008/02/the_keffiyeh_politics_or_fashion/)grew into a symbol of Palestinian nationalism in the 1960s and eventually became a trademark of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. He wore his black and white scarf in a distinctive arrangement, draping it over his right shoulder in a triangular shape that mimicked the outlines of Palestine.
I know what it is. I just refuse to respect that culture. It is extremely misogynistic, anti-Semitic, socially repressive and tyrannical in regards to human rights.
Unless you want to be dragged into a discourse on International relations and the current state of affairs, I'd advise anyone on wearing a traditional "look what my ma knitted me" type of neck warmer on the street.
I'd advise anyone pestering me on the street to brace up for a lecture themselves. One on jumping to conclusions and minding their own business.
Your analogy is poor. But, I do find some truth in your last statement. :rolleyes:
I disagree:
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Recent_Debate/arafat.jpg
How does this resemble the scarf at the top of the thread? There is more similarity between a toga and klan gear.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 09:46 AM
The Confederate flag started out as a symbol of slavery and the south. By default it had racial overtones. It's evoloution into a symbol of racism and oppression is not nearly as dramatic as that of the swastika. The swastika started out as a symbol of good luck and hope and evolved into a symbol of hatred and evil.
No, that's not how the Confederate flag started out. It only came to remind everyone of racism later. (there is nothing inherently racist in the flag, it's what it represents, see my point?)
"At the Battle of Bull Run, there were a number of Confederate regiments that used the Confederate national flag as their battle flag. While having a National flag that looks similar to the old United States flag might have been comforting to the people of the newly formed Confederacy, it turned out to be a bad idea in battle. In battle, the purpose of a flag is to help identify who is who. Who is on your side, and who is on the other side. From this perspective, having two sides fight under flags that are similar in appearance is a very bad idea. It actually did cause some degree of confusion at the Battle of Bull Run."
Thus, the Confederate battle flag was created. (which is what people normally refer to as, THE Confederate flag.
I know the how the swastika came about, and though it started out as a harmless symbol of hope, it was bastardized and unfortunately comes to represent mass murder, now.
It's oversensitivity. The swastika purse, I'll give you. That is definitely wrong. But everytime someone sees a vague image they start yelling.
http://www.snopes.com/business/hidden/vans.asp
I don't agree that it's oversensitivity. Even when done in innocent pursuit of being fashionable, it has a bad connotation to those of us who aren't ignorant, and needs to be pointed out.
For some, it's not innocent and they know what it stands for. (Check out any of the protests documented here (http://www.zombietime.com/sf_anti-war_rally_oct_27_2007/))
I don't care what the microscopic pattern was on her scarf, whoever put that on her for the shoot, needs to be educated.
I don't know anything about the tennis shoe flap.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 09:52 AM
The black-checked fringe scarf is the symbol of Fatah.
"'It's the national symbol. It must keep going and it must be produced locally,' said Mr Hirbawi, who wears such a scarf over his traditional jalabiyeh robe. 'It must be protected.'"
"Once used largely to denote different tribes, today its various colours and designs carry political connotations - black and white is associated with Mr Arafat's Fatah, while a red and white version is linked to the Islamist organisation Hamas."
~ The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1576085/Production-of-Arafat's-scarf-hangs-by-a-thread.html)
golfmom
05-29-2008, 09:55 AM
Karole, I was going to type that up about the Confederate flag as well.
The civil war started off as a political dispute over federalism and state rights. Slavery was eventually used as a hot button topic, however, there were even northern states that supported the idea of centralized federal government, but wanted the issue of slavery left off the table. Since state versus federal rights was a hotly debated issue, the issue of slavery was used as part of a political campaign to further the issue, since many were willing to overlook their obvious distaste of a federal government stronger than a state's rights in order to abolish slavery. Obviously, it worked.
It just looks stupid anyway. Fashion police needed!!!
Karole28
05-29-2008, 10:01 AM
Karole, I was going to type that up about the Confederate flag as well.
The civil war started off as a political dispute over federalism and state rights. Slavery was eventually used as a hot button topic, however, there were even northern states that supported the idea of centralized federal government, but wanted the issue of slavery left off the table. Since state versus federal rights was a hotly debated issue, the issue of slavery was used as part of a political campaign to further the issue, since many were willing to overlook their obvious distaste of a federal government stronger than a state's rights in order to abolish slavery. Obviously, it worked.
AMEN and AMEN! Even Lincoln commented:
Lincoln, oddly enough, apparently shared some of these views. In his 1860 inaugural address, he said: "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." Two years later, President Lincoln wrote: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union (Letter to Horace Greeley, August 22, 1862)." And in 1858 Lincoln had written: "I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people. There is a physical difference between the white and black races, which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."
Click (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3487)(Cato warning)
The South's fight was predominantly financially driven.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 10:03 AM
It just looks stupid anyway. Fashion police needed!!!
No kidding. Maybe Rachel was in the midst of a huge powdered sugar storm and was just playing it safe?
I mean, I'd understand if she were in the desert.
(as much as I detest her, that's where I think she oughta be, permanently)
golfmom
05-29-2008, 10:04 AM
Isn't it interesting how that has pretty much been excluded in teaching American History? I bet if you asked 100 people what caused the civil war, 99 would answer slavery.
cheko1
05-29-2008, 10:05 AM
Geez how ridiculous!
Karole28
05-29-2008, 10:05 AM
Isn't it interesting how that has pretty much been excluded in teaching American History? I bet if you asked 100 people what caused the civil war, 99 would answer slavery.
They do! My daughters are constantly having to set their classmates straight on it.
It really is one of my pet peeves. People have heard it for so long, it's become the "truth" now.
golfmom
05-29-2008, 10:09 AM
They do! My daughters are constantly having to set their classmates straight on it.
It really is one of my pet peeves. People have heard it for so long, it's become the "truth" now.
My daughter tried to educate her history teacher ... that didn't go over well. :eek:
Karole28
05-29-2008, 10:12 AM
My daughter tried to educate her history teacher ... that didn't go over well. :eek:
Mine haven't learned the art of "shut your mouth unless specifically asked about something controversial", yet.
I do not know where they get it. :)
They do! My daughters are constantly having to set their classmates straight on it.
It really is one of my pet peeves. People have heard it for so long, it's become the "truth" now.
It's disgraceful. By the time my daughter hit HS, her brothers set the pace so the teachers all know she is conservative, and the poor kid along with a few others are constantly up against the "new" revised history of the world.
Such a shame.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 10:17 AM
This actually raises a the topic of symbols and their meanings and connotations.
A noose has never meant anything but "wild west hangings" until the issue was raised in Jenna, to me.
The cross would be offensive if you took it into Saudi, nor the Jewish star of David, nor the rainbow flag.
The Mao symbol isn't welcome in Peru.
The nazi symbol isn't welcome anywhere but in Hindu nations.
The Che symbols, the communist symbols.
None are inherently evil, but some do evoke negative feelings.
A two minute search on Google for "offensive symbols" gave me a boat load of Confederate links.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 10:18 AM
It's disgraceful. By the time my daughter hit HS, her brothers set the pace so the teachers all know she is conservative, and the poor kid along with a few others are constantly up against the "new" revised history of the world.
Such a shame.
Yah, mine too. I started my oldest out with "tell me what you learned in civics today, so I can tell you what really happened". It's trickled down.
:)
No worries, it will make them stronger people.
Yah, mine too. I started my oldest out with "tell me what you learned in civics today, so I can tell you what really happened". It's trickled down.
:)
No worries, it will make them stronger people.
Stronger smarter people.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 10:22 AM
Stronger smarter people.
Exactly! And, we need more of those on this planet.
golfmom
05-29-2008, 10:24 AM
mphffff ... I think the topic we strayed to, is more interesting than Rachel in a scarf.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 10:26 AM
mphffff ... I think the topic we strayed to, is more interesting than Rachel in a scarf.
:laugh: I owe Paladin an apology!
Paladin, I'm sorry for the threadjack!
MissieMt
05-29-2008, 11:05 AM
Just a theory, but perhaps if people don't like the scarf she is wearing they could change the channel :eek:...
I know, that's just crazy talk :rolleyes:
Karole28
05-29-2008, 11:07 AM
Just a theory, but perhaps if people don't like the scarf she is wearing they could change the channel :eek:...
I know, that's just crazy talk :rolleyes:
Since she wasn't wearing it on her show, it'd be more effective to not purchase anything from Dunkin Donuts.
Or write about it in an opinion forum.
MissieMt
05-29-2008, 11:13 AM
Since she wasn't wearing it on her show, it'd be more effective to not purchase anything from Dunkin Donuts.
Or write about it in an opinion forum.
I absolutely agree with you-but I find changing the channel a quicker solution. I guess I just have bigger fish to fry and can't stop to throw a temper tantrum every time I find something offensive.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 11:15 AM
I absolutely agree with you-but I find changing the channel a quicker solution. I guess I just have bigger fish to fry and can't stop to throw a temper tantrum every time I find something offensive.
Again, changing the channel from what? Their commercials? That's a given for any commercial anyway in my house.
I don't see anyone here throwing a "temper tantrum". I see a civil discourse on a valid issue (for the most part).
absinthe
05-29-2008, 11:17 AM
Those scarves are everywhere now! Even at Forever 21! *rolly eye* And yes, I see young girls wear them ALL THE TIME...and they really have no idea that they are wearing a MEN'S article of clothing. The kaffiyeh is not neccesarily Palestinian, thought it has come to be associated with the Palestinian movement for independence because of Arafat's high profile in the West. That style of scarf (with small modification) can be found all over the Arab world..the thing is, it is strictly worn by men. I joke with my friends that I am going to start a new fad by wearing a jaunty yarmulke.
The thing I find most offensive about this whole brouhaha, is that people would dare to consider a traditional piece of Arab clothing as automatically "terrorist".
Karole28
05-29-2008, 11:27 AM
The thing I find most offensive about this whole brouhaha, is that people would dare to consider a traditional piece of Arab clothing as automatically "terrorist".
Well that's the thing. Symbols only have the meaning we give to them. How is a piece of rope, racist?
Rightly or wrongly, it's what we use to identify people. If you see a guy walking down the street wearing a swastika, you make assumptions about him.
(Maybe he's Hindi, see?)
jannuncutt
05-29-2008, 11:31 AM
Those scarves are everywhere now! Even at Forever 21! *rolly eye* And yes, I see young girls wear them ALL THE TIME...and they really have no idea that they are wearing a MEN'S article of clothing. The kaffiyeh is not neccesarily Palestinian, thought it has come to be associated with the Palestinian movement for independence because of Arafat's high profile in the West. That style of scarf (with small modification) can be found all over the Arab world..the thing is, it is strictly worn by men. I joke with my friends that I am going to start a new fad by wearing a jaunty yarmulke.
The thing I find most offensive about this whole brouhaha, is that people would dare to consider a traditional piece of Arab clothing as automatically "terrorist".
Great point! I totally agree with you.
philamena
05-29-2008, 11:31 AM
Just for once I'd like to see a celebrity get up and say "IT'S A F*****G SCARF. GET OVER IT!!!"
bahaaaaaa :clap::clap::clap:
absinthe
05-29-2008, 11:33 AM
Well that's the thing. Symbols only have the meaning we give to them. How is a piece of rope, racist? It's not..I don't understand you here.
Rightly or wrongly, it's what we use to identify people. If you see a guy walking down the street wearing a swastika, you make assumptions about him. If it was a Buddhist-style swastika, I would assume he was Buddhist. If it was a black swastika enclosed in a white circle with a red background, I would assume he was a Nazi sympathizer. It would take far more than a simple head scarf to make me assume that someone was a terrorist.
(Maybe he's Hindi, see?) Hindi is a language.
Jmo..
Just a theory, but perhaps if people don't like the scarf she is wearing they could change the channel :eek:...
I know, that's just crazy talk :rolleyes:
I change the channel every time I see the woman, she's every where you go... there seems to be no escaping her.
MissieMt
05-29-2008, 11:36 AM
I am speaking of the temper tantrums people threw in order to bully Dunkin Donuts into pulling the ad.
Some observers, including ultra-conservative Fox News commentator Michelle Malkin, were so incensed by the ad that there was even talk of a Dunkin’ Donuts boycott.
I also consider boycotting them a temper tantrum ( a rather passive aggresive one), but thats just imo. It's sad to see that people won't even allow a person to wear a scarf on t.v. because it hurts their feelings.
Seriously, do people honestly think Rachael Ray was trying to advocate or support Arab men or their behaviors by wearing that scarf?!
absinthe
05-29-2008, 11:37 AM
Yeah, I don't like her either...actually, the thing I find most offensive is that Racheal Ray would wear that kaffiyeh in the first place.
MissieMt
05-29-2008, 11:38 AM
I change the channel every time I see the woman, she's every where you go... there seems to be no escaping her.
LOL, I haven't liked her since the first time she said "E.V.O.O." like she was too busy to actually say "extra virgin olive oil"
Hopeful One
05-29-2008, 11:40 AM
I am speaking of the temper tantrums people threw in order to bully Dunkin Donuts into pulling the ad.
I also consider boycotting them a temper tantrum ( a rather passive aggresive one), but thats just imo. It's sad to see that people won't even allow a person to wear a scarf on t.v. because it hurts their feelings.
Seriously, do people honestly think Rachael Ray was trying to advocate or support Arab men or their behaviors by wearing that scarf?!
:clap::clap:
I'm sooooooooo sick of people griping and moaning and insisting, "Remove that! Take that down! Don't wear that! That reminds me of something I don't like! It hurts my feelers, therefore it must be destroyed." How about this - DON'T LOOK!?!?
Wow, that was tough.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 11:43 AM
It's not..I don't understand you here.
It is, if it's shaped like a noose.
[If it was a Buddhist-style swastika, I would assume he was Buddhist. If it was a black swastika enclosed in a white circle with a red background, I would assume he was a Nazi sympathizer. It would take far more than a simple head scarf to make me assume that someone was a terrorist.
I don't see a lot of Buddhist-style swastikas, anywhere.
I think you're being a tad disingenuous, here.
Hindi is a language.. Oh right, my brain snoozed.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 11:47 AM
I am speaking of the temper tantrums people threw in order to bully Dunkin Donuts into pulling the ad.
That's the great thing about the US. If you don't like something, you're allowed to boycott.
I also consider boycotting them a temper tantrum ( a rather passive aggresive one), but thats just imo. It's sad to see that people won't even allow a person to wear a scarf on t.v. because it hurts their feelings.
How would you rather the American people have their feelings known, exactly?
Seriously, do people honestly think Rachael Ray was trying to advocate or support Arab men or their behaviors by wearing that scarf?!
No, we think she's an idiot. I don't think she's supporting Arab "men" (?) But, like every other idiot who flashes their stylish Che shirt, they're promoting things they don't understand (or else, they're just being dou*ches and deserve a talking to)
Karole28
05-29-2008, 11:49 AM
:clap::clap:
I'm sooooooooo sick of people griping and moaning and insisting, "Remove that! Take that down! Don't wear that! That reminds me of something I don't like! It hurts my feelers, therefore it must be destroyed." How about this - DON'T LOOK!?!?
Wow, that was tough.
Hurts your feelers? Must be destroyed?
Let's remain calm here.
If you're wearing a political statement, be prepared to deal with it.
Freedom of speech is a great thing. But it doesn't mean you won't get your a$$ kicked in the wrong part of town.
absinthe
05-29-2008, 11:50 AM
It is, if it's shaped like a noose.
[
I don't see a lot of Buddhist-style swastikas, anywhere.
I think you're being a tad disingenuous, here.
Oh right, my brain snoozed.
Hmmm...I wouldn't necessarily assume that a noose was racist, either. I think a lot of the Jena controversy occurred because the setting was Southern and already a racially charged environment.
I have had a few friends from Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia who had Buddhist swastikas tattooed on their hands as babies. I think it is a regional custom for some families in that areas. I also have seen a Buddhist temple in another neighborhood that has Buddhist swastikas incorporated in the decor.
The more we discuss this issue, the more I realize that this is a regional issue.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 11:54 AM
Hmmm...I wouldn't necessarily assume that a noose was racist, either. I think a lot of the Jena controversy occurred because the setting was Southern and already a racially charged environment.
I was born and raised here and have NEVER equated a noose with anything but outlaws.
That has changed, across the US. (google "noose racial incident" and you'll be suprised at the hits you get)
Again, symbols only have the meanings we give them. But, (it must be a human characteristic universally) we use them to identify people, culture and politics.
A red or blue bandana doesn't mean a thing to me. But, I know in parts of California it does.
I have had a few friends from Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia who had Buddhist swastikas tattooed on their hands as babies. I think it is a regional custom for some families in that areas. I also have seen a Buddhist temple in another neighborhood that has Buddhist swastikas incorporated in the decor.
The more we discuss this issue, the more I realize that this is a regional issue.
It must be, because like the noose, a swastika means only one thing where I live.
absinthe
05-29-2008, 11:58 AM
I was born and raised here and have NEVER equated a noose with anything but outlaws.
That has changed, across the US. (google "noose racial incident" and you'll be suprised at the hits you get)
Again, symbols only have the meanings we give them. But, (it must be a human characteristic universally) we use them to identify people, culture and politics.
A red or blue bandana doesn't mean a thing to me. But, I know in parts of California it does.
It must be, because like the noose, a swastika means only one thing where I live.
I think the kaffiyeh thing also. Not only is it tres en vogue around here (:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:) but there is a large Christian Arab population in California. I often see Arab American men wear a kaffiyeh on holidays, at weddings and baptisms, etc.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 12:00 PM
I think the kaffiyeh thing also. Not only is it tres en vogue around here (:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:) but there is a large Christian Arab population in California. I often see Arab American men wear a kaffiyeh on holidays, at weddings and baptisms, etc.
One of my best friends (I've written about her here before) is a Christian from Saudi. She's just full of hair curling stories :eek:
absinthe
05-29-2008, 12:04 PM
Ugh, the more I think about it, the more upset I am that Rachael Ray would so ignorantly expropriate a part of another culture...particularly one so sensitive - in several ways - as the Arab culture. Who was her stylist? Who was supervising the production of this commercial?
Karole28
05-29-2008, 12:11 PM
Ugh, the more I think about it, the more upset I am that Rachael Ray would so ignorantly expropriate a part of another culture...particularly one so sensitive - in several ways - as the Arab culture. Who was her stylist? Who was supervising the production of this commercial?
It just signifies to me why the rest of the world feels like the west is so clueless.
Paris Hilton, Cameron Diaz, Lindsey Lohan, etc. It's just thoughtless dumbassery.
absinthe
05-29-2008, 12:12 PM
It just signifies to me why the rest of the world feels like the west is so clueless.
Paris Hilton, Cameron Diaz, Lindsey Lohan, etc. It's just thoughtless dumbassery.
Lesson is: research what you wear!
MissieMt
05-29-2008, 12:17 PM
Hurts your feelers? Must be destroyed?
Let's remain calm here.
If you're wearing a political statement, be prepared to deal with it.
Freedom of speech is a great thing. But it doesn't mean you won't get your a$$ kicked in the wrong part of town.
You're right-Freedom of speech is a great thing, for EVERYONE. Which means that if Dunkin Donuts wants to keep running that ad, whether they support her outfit or not-we should respect their right to do so. We can't pick and chose who has the right to express themselves.
Honestly, out of all of this what is sticking out to me the most is the promotion of stereotypes, and that promotion isn't being done by Rachael Ray or Dunkin Donuts.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 12:21 PM
You're right-Freedom of speech is a great thing, for EVERYONE. Which means that if Dunkin Donuts wants to keep running that ad, whether they support her outfit or not-we should respect their right to do so. We can't pick and chose who has the right to express themselves.
Honestly, out of all of this what is sticking out to me the most is the promotion of stereotypes, and that promotion isn't being done by Rachael Ray or Dunkin Donuts.
Freedom of speech doesn't come without consequences. Especially for someone trying to get OUR money through their advertising.
Surely they can keep running it, they are free to do that. And, suffer the financial fallout.
I'm free to open a store and only cater to English speakers/women/men/whomever. I'll also be free to go under within a month of opening my doors.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 12:22 PM
Lesson is: research what you wear!
Especially if it's political and you're in public!
I'm free to open a store and only cater to English speakers/women/men/whomever.
Phila would have a problem with that:rolleyes:
Karole28
05-29-2008, 12:56 PM
Phila would have a problem with that:rolleyes:
Hey, it's a free country. You don't have to be smart to take advantage of it. :)
curious1
05-29-2008, 01:03 PM
Oh geez peeps it's just a scarf. They are fashionable now just like they were fashionable back in the 70's. I remember I had to have the matching scarf and engineers hat like my big sis. If we start seeing symbols in everything we are going to be in big trouble people. Someone somewhere could be offended by the style of glasses you wear or how you wear your hair. Be very very careful with jumping on the 'sensitivity' bandwagon, it might just run your ass over one day.
XcomSquaddie
05-29-2008, 01:57 PM
Lesson is: research what you wear!
No, the lesson is: Don't be so sensitive.
People have already posted how different signs, symbols, clothing and colors mean different things to different people.
The lesson is: Don't jump to conclusions.
Maybe Rachel Ray wore that scarf because an arabic friend gave it to her. Maybe she just liked the scarf. Don't immediately assume she's clueless, insensitive or making a statement. Of course, someone could have asked her about it, but it's much easier to just jump on that conclusion and start screaming.
The lesson is: Grow up.
And considering that the people in many of these countries will burn american flags at the drop of a hat, maybe they should take a lesson in sensitivity themselves.
absinthe
05-29-2008, 02:03 PM
No, the lesson is: Don't be so sensitive.
People have already posted how different signs, symbols, clothing and colors mean different things to different people.
The lesson is: Don't jump to conclusions.
Maybe Rachel Ray wore that scarf because an arabic friend gave it to her. Maybe she just liked the scarf. Don't immediately assume she's clueless, insensitive or making a statement. Of course, someone could have asked her about it, but it's much easier to just jump on that conclusion and start screaming.
The lesson is: Grow up.
And considering that the people in many of these countries will burn american flags at the drop of a hat, maybe they should take a lesson in sensitivity themselves.
Actually, I assumed she wore it because they are in style, but yeah.
It's a commercial, not a random appearance. Hours go into deciding what an actor/personality will wear in commercial. Racheal Ray did not dress herself. Someone really slipped up.
curious1
05-29-2008, 02:05 PM
All of us here could look in our closet and find something that offends someone. Certain colours might affend someone. Suppose you are walking down the street one day with a pair of black pants on a nice little red top and a jaunty little scarf that is primarily yellow and you just put it together because you like the colours. What are ya gonna do if a little old lady walks up to you and says I am a holocaust survivor and I am offended that you are wearing the colours of the german flag? Heck your hairstyle might offend someone. What if one day a supervisor calls you into their office and says you have the same hairstyle and hair colour as Jan's stepmother who use to beat her and lock her in a closet and it causes her trauma to look at your hair so we are going to have to ask that you cut your hair and change the colour? How sensitive would you be then? I said it before and I'll say it again, be careful about jumping on the sensitivity bandwagon....it might just run your ass over one day.
absinthe
05-29-2008, 02:08 PM
All of us here could look in our closet and find something that offends someone. Certain colours might affend someone. Suppose you are walking down the street one day with a pair of black pants on a nice little red top and a jaunty little scarf that is primarily yellow and you just put it together because you like the colours. What are ya gonna do if a little old lady walks up to you and says I am a holocaust survivor and I am offended that you are wearing the colours of the german flag? Heck your hairstyle might offend someone. What if one day a supervisor calls you into their office and says you have the same hairstyle and hair colour as Jan's stepmother who use to beat her and lock her in a closet and it causes her trauma to look at your hair so we are going to have to ask that you cut your hair and change the colour? How sensitive would you be then? I said it before and I'll say it again, be careful about jumping on the sensitivity bandwagon....it might just run your ass over one day.
I don't care if you shave a swastika into your pubes and walk down the street butt nekkid. But people do care what public personalities wear.
Actually, I assumed she wore it because they are in style, but yeah.
It's a commercial, not a random appearance. Hours go into deciding what an actor/personality will wear in commercial. Racheal Ray did not dress herself. Someone really slipped up.
I think you just pointed out why being overly sensitive is the problem and not the scarf. How in tarnation was a wardrobe person, corp. head or film director to know it would offend? It clearly did not have that effect on all who were involved with the production.
absinthe
05-29-2008, 02:13 PM
I think you just pointed out why being overly sensitive is the problem and not the scarf. How in tarnation was a wardrobe person, corp. head or film director to know it would offend? It clearly did not have that effect on all who were involved with the production.
I know, I find it really surprising.
Bottom line is, Dunkin' Donuts is a company. Obviously, they thought that there was something about the commercial that would cause them to lose money. That's why they pulled it.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 02:19 PM
All of us here could look in our closet and find something that offends someone. Certain colours might affend someone. Suppose you are walking down the street one day with a pair of black pants on a nice little red top and a jaunty little scarf that is primarily yellow and you just put it together because you like the colours. What are ya gonna do if a little old lady walks up to you and says I am a holocaust survivor and I am offended that you are wearing the colours of the german flag? Heck your hairstyle might offend someone. What if one day a supervisor calls you into their office and says you have the same hairstyle and hair colour as Jan's stepmother who use to beat her and lock her in a closet and it causes her trauma to look at your hair so we are going to have to ask that you cut your hair and change the colour? How sensitive would you be then? I said it before and I'll say it again, be careful about jumping on the sensitivity bandwagon....it might just run your ass over one day.
If you're wearing crips colors and your boss is a blood, yeah, that'd be a problem. However for the most , your argument is moot.
We're not talking about any random hat or color. We're talking about symbols that are widely held in contempt.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 02:22 PM
No, the lesson is: Don't be so sensitive.
So, you put a sheet over your head and walk through any neighborhood in Detroit. Then talk to me about being overly sensitive.
Maybe Rachel Ray wore that scarf because an arabic friend gave it to her. Maybe she just liked the scarf. Don't immediately assume she's clueless, insensitive or making a statement. Of course, someone could have asked her about it, but it's much easier to just jump on that conclusion and start screaming.
No, she really is clueless and stupid. Have you ever watched her show? Sammys? But that's beside the point. I'm blaming her stylist at this point, because I don't think she'd be smart enough to make any kind of connection.
Nobody is screaming.
I know, I find it really surprising.
Bottom line is, Dunkin' Donuts is a company. Obviously, they thought that there was something about the commercial that would cause them to lose money. That's why they pulled it.
Right-o. I just wish she was losing them money and they would dump her.
absinthe
05-29-2008, 02:26 PM
Right-o. I just wish she was losing them money and they would dump her.
Well, I certainly wouldn't patronize a company that used her as a spokesperson. Not that we have Dunkin' Donuts round these here parts anyways.
curious1
05-29-2008, 03:41 PM
ooookaaay. I thought most people here were openminded, but I find more and more that is not the case. If someone is so offended by a damn scarf on a 30 -45 second spot on the internet then tough cookies. This is getting ridiculous.
To those of you who agree with this stupidity...Next time someone on WS tells you they are offended by your opinion/comments/signature line or avatar will YOU take them off WS or defend them? If you say you would not take them down then you are a hypocrite.
curious1
05-29-2008, 03:43 PM
If you're wearing crips colors and your boss is a blood, yeah, that'd be a problem. However for the most , your argument is moot.
We're not talking about any random hat or color. We're talking about symbols that are widely held in contempt.
I have to say I did not realize it was anything other than a scarf until it was brought to my attention by an article someone forwarded to me that was written by someone who obviously has some issues (nothing to do with the scarf) and waaaayyy too much time on their hands.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 03:46 PM
I have to say I did not realize it was anything other than a scarf until it was brought to my attention by an article someone forwarded to me that was written by someone who obviously has some issues (nothing to do with the scarf) and waaaayyy too much time on their hands.
I'm sure you'll join me in telling these Muslim women to "toughen up" and wear the uniform their company provides? (where does your "tolerance" end?)
Click! (http://www.startribune.com/business/19303124.html?location_refer=Your%20Money)
I'm also wondering what you think of the "scarf" now that you know what it stands for?
sherri79
05-29-2008, 03:47 PM
it is a free country. she has the right to wear what ever she wants. people have the right to refuse to spend their money in a store that runs a ad they find offensive. dunkin has the right to keep the ad up and risk a loss of profit or remove it because they are in the business of making money. freedom works both ways. she can wear what she wants but people are free to comment on it. when a court steps in to control what is worn or said it is a freedom issue. until then wear what you want and if someone wears something you find offensive speak up.
curious1
05-29-2008, 03:48 PM
I'm sure you'll join me in telling these Muslim women to "toughen up" and wear the uniform their company provides? (where does your "tolerance" end?)
Click! (http://www.startribune.com/business/19303124.html?location_refer=Your%20Money)
I'm also wondering what you think of the "scarf" now that you know what it stands for?
I think it is quite lovely and I might just go out and try to find one just like it. And I will probably get lots and lots of compliments on it. My friends are quite bright and have fulfilling lives so they have better things to do with their time than look for the evil meaning in everything.
But for those of you out there with nothing better to do....I suggest you remove anything red or black from your wardrobe as in some cultures those are considered 'evil' colours. And if you 'sign' don't use the sign for "I Love You" there is a video out there showing how it is actually the sign for the devil. So many things to have to worry about not wearing or doing. I guess if you have nothing better to do......
Karole28
05-29-2008, 03:48 PM
ooookaaay. I thought most people here were openminded, but I find more and more that is not the case. If someone is so offended by a damn scarf on a 30 -45 second spot on the internet then tough cookies. This is getting ridiculous.
To those of you who agree with this stupidity...Next time someone on WS tells you they are offended by your opinion/comments/signature line or avatar will YOU take them off WS or defend them? If you say you would not take them down then you are a hypocrite.
Where is your "openminded-ness" concerning those who don't like what the "damn scarf" stands for?
Nobody forced you to post on this thread. Nobody is forcing you to continue to do so. Obviously you're not through saying what you want to say, so say it.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 03:49 PM
it is a free country. she has the right to wear what ever she wants. people have the right to refuse to spend their money in a store that runs a ad they find offensive. dunkin has the right to keep the ad up and risk a loss of profit or remove it because they are in the business of making money. freedom works both ways. she can wear what she wants but people are free to comment on it. when a court steps in to control what is worn or said it is a freedom issue. until then wear what you want and if someone wears something you find offensive speak up.
This! :clap:
Karole28
05-29-2008, 03:50 PM
I think it is quite lovely and I might just go out and try to find one just like it. And I will probably get lots and lots of compliments on it. My friends are quite bright and have fulfilling lifes so they have better things to do with their time than look for the evil meaning in everything.
I think that's a great idea. I think you should wear one for an entire week everywhere you go, and let us know how that works out for you.
I'd be curious to know what happens.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 03:51 PM
I think it is quite lovely and I might just go out and try to find one just like it. And I will probably get lots and lots of compliments on it. My friends are quite bright and have fulfilling lifes so they have better things to do with their time than look for the evil meaning in everything.
(there was another part to my post. I'd like to see what your input is on that)
Jen_in_Indy
05-29-2008, 03:51 PM
I think that's a great idea. I think you should wear one for an entire week everywhere you go, and let us know how that works out for you.
I'd be curious to know what happens.
I can honestly tell you that at least here in Indiana, nobody would think twice about it being just a scarf. Bottom line.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 03:52 PM
I can honestly tell you that at least here in Indiana, nobody would think twice about it being just a scarf. Bottom line.
That's worrisome. However, I think as people become informed to the world outside their state lines, we'll be better off for it.
sherri79
05-29-2008, 03:52 PM
ooookaaay. I thought most people here were openminded, but I find more and more that is not the case. If someone is so offended by a damn scarf on a 30 -45 second spot on the internet then tough cookies. This is getting ridiculous.
To those of you who agree with this stupidity...Next time someone on WS tells you they are offended by your opinion/comments/signature line or avatar will YOU take them off WS or defend them? If you say you would not take them down then you are a hypocrite.
i do not know about everyone that found it offensive but i know karole removed a image in her sig that someone found offensive.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 03:54 PM
i do not know about everyone that found it offensive but i know karole removed a image in her sig that someone found offensive.
Thanks, I started to mention it. But, figured what the heck.
:blowkiss:
Class-z
05-29-2008, 03:57 PM
picture: http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2008/05/27/1211929942_3205.jpg
more: http://www.boston.com/ae/celebrity/articles/2008/05/27/dunkin_donuts_yanks_rachael_ray_ad/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed1/
You guys know I hate Rachel Ray, but this is the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
Oh please, that scarf is very stylist and hip and looks nothing like what they say it does. They must of wanted out of her contract for some reason.
I'm not a big Rachel Ray fan, but I'll tell you, that Dunkin Donuts is so stupid over this, that I won't go there
sherri79
05-29-2008, 03:58 PM
Thanks, I started to mention it. But, figured what the heck.
:blowkiss: hey i do not find the scarf to look enough like the offensive object to bother me but i will stand up for your right to feel that way and express it. it is only fair that those who are so angry at your stand know you practice what you preach.
sherri79
05-29-2008, 04:00 PM
Oh please, that scarf is very stylist and hip and looks nothing like what they say it does. They must of wanted out of her contract for some reason.
I'm not a big Rachel Ray fan, but I'll tell you, that Dunkin Donuts is so stupid over this, that I won't go there
how would this let them out of the contract? even if they do not use the picture she still gets paid.
absinthe
05-29-2008, 04:04 PM
ooookaaay. I thought most people here were openminded, but I find more and more that is not the case. If someone is so offended by a damn scarf on a 30 -45 second spot on the internet then tough cookies. This is getting ridiculous.
To those of you who agree with this stupidity...Next time someone on WS tells you they are offended by your opinion/comments/signature line or avatar will YOU take them off WS or defend them? If you say you would not take them down then you are a hypocrite.
I'm not trying to make money off anyone on WS. Why would I take anything down?
Karole28
05-29-2008, 04:04 PM
Oh please, that scarf is very stylist and hip and looks nothing like what they say it does. They must of wanted out of her contract for some reason.
I'm not a big Rachel Ray fan, but I'll tell you, that Dunkin Donuts is so stupid over this, that I won't go there
Stylish and hip? mmmmmyeah...she should pair leg warmers with a pair of booty shorts. I know I always wear a scarf with a short sleeved, lowish cut shirt.
"looks nothing like what they say it does?"
I posted a link earlier to other "scarves". You should check it out.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 04:05 PM
hey i do not find the scarf to look enough like the offensive object to bother me but i will stand up for your right to feel that way and express it. it is only fair that those who are so angry at your stand know you practice what you preach.
And, I appreciate you for it! Thank you kindly.
absinthe
05-29-2008, 04:09 PM
it is a free country. she has the right to wear what ever she wants. people have the right to refuse to spend their money in a store that runs a ad they find offensive. dunkin has the right to keep the ad up and risk a loss of profit or remove it because they are in the business of making money. freedom works both ways. she can wear what she wants but people are free to comment on it. when a court steps in to control what is worn or said it is a freedom issue. until then wear what you want and if someone wears something you find offensive speak up.
Voice of reason! Thank you!
No one is forcing anyone to wear the scarf or not wear the scarf. It's a matter of choice. Racheal Ray chose to wear the scarf (or the production team's stylist picked it for her, more likely), now Dunkin' Donuts is choosing not to run the commercial.
ooookaaay. I thought most people here were openminded, but I find more and more that is not the case. If someone is so offended by a damn scarf on a 30 -45 second spot on the internet then tough cookies. This is getting ridiculous.
To those of you who agree with this stupidity...Next time someone on WS tells you they are offended by your opinion/comments/signature line or avatar will YOU take them off WS or defend them? If you say you would not take them down then you are a hypocrite.
You are all over the place. DD agreed and pulled the spot - business move. For those who don't agree, so what - no harm no foul. For those who were/are offended, DD addressed their issue,it's called empathy and business.
DD never intened to cause hurt feeling unlike -say, someone calling others less openminded
sherri79
05-29-2008, 04:30 PM
Voice of reason! Thank you!
No one is forcing anyone to wear the scarf or not wear the scarf. It's a matter of choice. Racheal Ray chose to wear the scarf (or the production team's stylist picked it for her, more likely), now Dunkin' Donuts is choosing not to run the commercial.
excuse me while i look for the devil on ice skates. if i am the voice of reason hell has surely frozen over. :crazy: :blowkiss:
curious1
05-29-2008, 04:39 PM
Where is your "openminded-ness" concerning those who don't like what the "damn scarf" stands for?
Nobody forced you to post on this thread. Nobody is forcing you to continue to do so. Obviously you're not through saying what you want to say, so say it.
Oh, people can have their opinions I am not offended by them and people can not like mine, I am not offended by that either. And honey I already said it, the 'oh it's a show of support for terrorist and is offensive' is stupid. There I said it again.
curious1
05-29-2008, 04:41 PM
That's worrisome. However, I think as people become informed to the world outside their state lines, we'll be better off for it.
No it is not worrisome it is in fact comforting that there is some little piece of our country that has not lost it's flipping mind and does not choose to find something evil where there is none and no offense where there is none. What is worrisome is all the people thinking that it is okay to look for the evil everywhere.
absinthe
05-29-2008, 04:42 PM
excuse me while i look for the devil on ice skates. if i am the voice of reason hell has surely frozen over. :crazy: :blowkiss:
I just love it when we agree :)
curious1
05-29-2008, 04:45 PM
hey i do not find the scarf to look enough like the offensive object to bother me but i will stand up for your right to feel that way and express it. it is only fair that those who are so angry at your stand know you practice what you preach.
I agree I think that is great that there are those who will actually do that. So many just want to stand back and go oh no that's offensive and that is not right, but then when someone says 'uh you know, now that I think of it what you said or did or have on is offensive to my beliefs' then they will just say oh well...
I look at it like this I was brought up to beleive that no one can hurt your feelings or offend you unless YOU let them and quite frankly I really try not to give others that much control over me.
curious1
05-29-2008, 04:46 PM
I'm not trying to make money off anyone on WS. Why would I take anything down?
So people can only find something offensive if a company is trying to make money? :waitasec: I am not even going to try to figure out that logic.
curious1
05-29-2008, 04:48 PM
excuse me while i look for the devil on ice skates. if i am the voice of reason hell has surely frozen over. :crazy: :blowkiss:
:p I like you, you're funny.
sherri79
05-29-2008, 04:53 PM
I agree I think that is great that there are those who will actually do that. So many just want to stand back and go oh no that's offensive and that is not right, but then when someone says 'uh you know, now that I think of it what you said or did or have on is offensive to my beliefs' then they will just say oh well...
I look at it like this I was brought up to beleive that no one can hurt your feelings or offend you unless YOU let them and quite frankly I really try not to give others that much control over me. that is a nice thought but i disagree. some things are offensive to good taste in general and if people find it offensive it does not make them wrong in any way. if i call my black neighbor the N word or get a tat of a guy bowing to hitler i should expect people to find it offensive and those people would be right. i find it offensive that rappers call women whores so i do not buy their albums. i am not their target market so they continue to do it. in this case the company felt enough of their target market may be offended so they reacted in the correct way.
sherri79
05-29-2008, 04:54 PM
:p I like you, you're funny. thank you kindly.:blowkiss:
Karole28
05-29-2008, 05:17 PM
Oh, people can have their opinions I am not offended by them and people can not like mine, I am not offended by that either. And honey I already said it, the 'oh it's a show of support for terrorist and is offensive' is stupid. There I said it again.
Ok, soooooo, I'm still waiting on your input regarding the Muslim women wearing the uniforms they were provided, honey.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 05:20 PM
No it is not worrisome it is in fact comforting that there is some little piece of our country that has not lost it's flipping mind and does not choose to find something evil where there is none and no offense where there is none. What is worrisome is all the people thinking that it is okay to look for the evil everywhere.
Who is looking for evil everywhere?
(pardon me while I don my Confederate battle flag baseball cap, to wear with my Obama = Curious George tshirt)
believe09
05-29-2008, 06:45 PM
I loved the scarf and thought the fuss was silly. BUT, I am not sensitized to whatever the symbol of the actual headscarf stands for. I thought it suited Arafat when he wore the real one-that doesn't mean i liked him; I just don't find a huge resemblance between Rachel Ray and Arafat...JMO
philamena
05-29-2008, 06:54 PM
I can honestly tell you that at least here in Indiana, nobody would think twice about it being just a scarf. Bottom line.
Same here Jen.
For those having trouble understanding the principal that Rachael is wearing a plain scarf.
Go to the grocery store or Barnes and Nobles. Buy all the fashion magazines you can find. I guarantee that you'll see pictures of women wearing scarfs, even though it is spring. sheezeeeeeeee :rolleyes:
Karole28
05-29-2008, 07:33 PM
I loved the scarf and thought the fuss was silly. BUT, I am not sensitized to whatever the symbol of the actual headscarf stands for. I thought it suited Arafat when he wore the real one-that doesn't mean i liked him; I just don't find a huge resemblance between Rachel Ray and Arafat...JMO
The best thing to "suit" Arafat would be if he got caught in his own crossfire.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 07:37 PM
Go to the grocery store or Barnes and Nobles. Buy all the fashion magazines you can find. I guarantee that you'll see pictures of women wearing scarfs, even though it is spring. sheezeeeeeeee :rolleyes:
Here's a woman wearing one.
http://www.celebrity-babies.com/images/2008/05/29/pete_ashlee_wentz_255978cbbjpg.jpg
Dear G*d, if these people are going to be the paragons of fashion, please take me now.
philamena
05-29-2008, 07:40 PM
Karole,
bahaaaaa, pssssst that is a man and he's Ashley's boyfriend.
Karole28
05-29-2008, 07:41 PM
Karole,
bahaaaaa, pssssst that is a man and he's Ashley's boyfriend.
I know :)
And, I think they got married. To make matters even worse, she's going to give birth to his spawn.
philamena
05-29-2008, 08:17 PM
oh no. I didn't know she was pregnant.
arielilane
05-29-2008, 09:08 PM
Good grief! It's important to accessorize...can't believe this story about a simple scarf that looks good on RR.
believe09
05-29-2008, 10:20 PM
The best thing to "suit" Arafat would be if he got caught in his own crossfire.
Yassir will have to defend himself from the stars, since he passed in 2004...
pedinurse
05-29-2008, 10:57 PM
because terrorists drink dunkin donuts on their jihads allllll the time... ray will be their shining light? what the hell?!?
philamena
05-30-2008, 12:19 AM
bahaaaaaaa that's good pedinurse! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-099.gif
Mygirlsadie
05-30-2008, 01:50 AM
It's funny because when I saw that ad before the big uproar I was like hmm that scarf she got on looks like one of those Arab thingys..Not that I care..wear whatever you want I just was like dang that's exactly what it looked like to me and then they made this big stink about it which I think is ridiculous by the way...
absinthe
05-30-2008, 03:02 PM
bump! he heh eheh
philamena
05-30-2008, 03:12 PM
Have you seen the new Madonna/Justin Timberlake video? :waitasec:
Justin is wearing one of the scarfs....Madonna is wearing a corset. Surprise. ;)
Karole28
05-30-2008, 03:29 PM
A look from the "other side"
=============================
But Ms Tieger said she had "no idea about the politics" when she bought the scarf at the Tree Of Life store.
"I thought it was a nice scarf, a cowboy scarf. I thought: 'It's black and white, no-one will say anything to me because that's all we can wear [with our work uniform]'.
"A Palestinian customer came up and asked me if I'm wearing this scarf as a fashion statement or for political reasons.
"I had no idea what he was talking about because I don't follow politics at all. I just laughed it off.
"Two days later he called and complained about it."
Shevonne Hunt, a freelance journalist who has reported on the keffiyeh's popularity in Australia, said many Palestinians were annoyed the widespread use of the keffiyeh for fashion had watered down its meaning.
Click! (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/30/1211654279497.html)
absinthe
05-30-2008, 03:31 PM
Thanks Karole!
Karole28
05-30-2008, 03:35 PM
Thanks Karole!
Anytime! :blowkiss:
BarnGoddess
05-30-2008, 03:50 PM
I haven't posted my comments here yet. I wasn't even aware of the scarf until this latest uprising about it. It is a paisley print. The "official" pattern of the Palestinian head dress is a herringbone pattern.
Years ago, the youth in our church did a Christmas play in church. One member of the congregation was a travel agent and did a lot of Holy Land tours. He helped with the pagent and used a couple of scarves he had brought back. One was the official Palestinian head scarf. I was outraged and let him know and our priest know exactly what it was and what it meant. It's distinctive. He said he'd bought it in Jerusalem in a market and didn't know what it meant. BS, he knew. They did dump the head scarf as my two boys were in the pagent and I threatened to pull them out if they insisted on using it.
I'm actually glad that we are finally turning the tide here with our outrage. It's usually on the other foot. Don't make the terrorists angry, LOL. Ms. Tieger's scarf does look like the Palestinian one, Rachel ray's does not.
Karole28
05-30-2008, 04:16 PM
They did dump the head scarf as my two boys were in the pagent and I threatened to pull them out if they insisted on using it.
Right on right on. :clap:
curiositycat
05-30-2008, 05:36 PM
Well, I am no fashion expert. My idea of a good look is jeans and a sweater, jeans and a t-shirt, capri jeans, and well you get the picture.
I have watched 30 minute meals for years and never have seen RR wear any scarfs. Besides that I did have some scarfs like that in the late sixties, early seventies...are they back in style.
Thirdly, maybe a wardrobe person put that on her, because it is not usually something she would wear...that alone makes me well.............curious...LOL
BarnGoddess
05-30-2008, 05:49 PM
Well, I am no fashion expert. My idea of a good look is jeans and a sweater, jeans and a t-shirt, capri jeans, and well you get the picture.
I have watched 30 minute meals for years and never have seen RR wear any scarfs. Besides that I did have some scarfs like that in the late sixties, early seventies...are they back in style.
Thirdly, maybe a wardrobe person put that on her, because it is not usually something she would wear...that alone makes me well.............curious...LOL
Hey, I thought I told you to STAY OUT OF MY CLOSET!!!!! Being on a farm/ranch, this is standard clothing. Going through the winter sweaters now to stash them away until fall. The T-shirts are being put in the dresser drawers for easy access. I do have some dressier wear, but sorting through winter and summer boots to make room is driving me crazy. I need to also get my sandals sorted out also. Those I wear to town and those around the house.
curiositycat
05-30-2008, 07:00 PM
Hey, I thought I told you to STAY OUT OF MY CLOSET!!!!! Being on a farm/ranch, this is standard clothing. Going through the winter sweaters now to stash them away until fall. The T-shirts are being put in the dresser drawers for easy access. I do have some dressier wear, but sorting through winter and summer boots to make room is driving me crazy. I need to also get my sandals sorted out also. Those I wear to town and those around the house.
I drove into town one day and about got whiplash. No one ever dresses up here in the country. There were two young gals dressed up to go clubbing. They stood out like pork chops at a Bar Mitzvah...LOL
BG I understand about the sandals. I usually prefer barefoot, but I will wear sandals to town. One day I forgot and one my slippers. Not one person seemed to notice:blowkiss:
Mygirlsadie
05-30-2008, 07:27 PM
To me the scarf looks like a dish cloth anyway. I have about 20 of them in my kitchen drawer.
amynrich
05-30-2008, 08:39 PM
I'm fairly new to posting so be easy on me :). But honestly I thought the scarf wasnt anything but an accesory. Mind you I watch her show from time to time and think certain things she does/says annoying. But seriously do we really need in this day and age to pick apart everything?!?
BarnGoddess
05-30-2008, 08:57 PM
I drove into town one day and about got whiplash. No one ever dresses up here in the country. There were two young gals dressed up to go clubbing. They stood out like pork chops at a Bar Mitzvah...LOL
BG I understand about the sandals. I usually prefer barefoot, but I will wear sandals to town. One day I forgot and one my slippers. Not one person seemed to notice:blowkiss:
Well, you apparantly live in, either (let me guess) Vail, Aspen, Telluride, Breckenridge, pick one. Would the Cruel Girl jeans do I got on sale work there? How about the bling bling belt I splurged on? I do wear my good Ariats for dress only, and a couple of really nice expensive shirt. Those are my dress casual. I usually wear the stained T-shirt and torn jeans around. I really can't go barefoot in the house, cause between the BarnGod and the dogs, I have a carpet constantly full of goatheads (OUCH!!). I did pick up some brand new Bjorn sandals at the second hand store for dress. Yep, I can fit in in Aspen for casual chic, but I need to lose about an inch to get those Cruel Girl's to button comfortably.
I love scarves. I have a number of them, including one from my grandmother that is black raw silk with fringe. Right now it's very fragile due to age. My sis sends me great scarves all the time. If the scarf was innocent, and I believe it is, then a simple photo of the paisly print of the open scarf will show the truth. I just dislike the flaunting of the Palestinian head scarf. It's in your face and to some Jews it's like wearing a swastika on your sleeve.
Karole28
05-30-2008, 08:57 PM
I'm fairly new to posting so be easy on me :). But honestly I thought the scarf wasnt anything but an accesory. Mind you I watch her show from time to time and think certain things she does/says annoying. But seriously do we really need in this day and age to pick apart everything?!?
Well, discussing Brittany or Paris' latest shenanigans might be more important to some people.
Not to me.
curiositycat
05-30-2008, 09:09 PM
Well, you apparantly live in, either (let me guess) Vail, Aspen, Telluride, Breckenridge, pick one. Would the Cruel Girl jeans do I got on sale work there? How about the bling bling belt I splurged on? I do wear my good Ariats for dress only, and a couple of really nice expensive shirt. Those are my dress casual. I usually wear the stained T-shirt and torn jeans around. I really can't go barefoot in the house, cause between the BarnGod and the dogs, I have a carpet constantly full of goatheads (OUCH!!). I did pick up some brand new Bjorn sandals at the second hand store for dress. Yep, I can fit in in Aspen for casual chic, but I need to lose about an inch to get those Cruel Girl's to button comfortably.
I love scarves. I have a number of them, including one from my grandmother that is black raw silk with fringe. Right now it's very fragile due to age. My sis sends me great scarves all the time. If the scarf was innocent, and I believe it is, then a simple photo of the paisly print of the open scarf will show the truth. I just dislike the flaunting of the Palestinian head scarf. It's in your face and to some Jews it's like wearing a swastika on your sleeve.
No I live in a little town by the Arkansas river. All the locals think that people are trying to make this into an Aspen/Vail, ect. This place was voted one of the 10 best cities for Baby Boomers to retire in. I had never heard of it but one day I read an article, came to visit, fell in love with it and retired here.
You know I felt the same way about the scarf. I honestly find it a bit strange, as I said earlier, because of the fact that RR NEVER wears stuff like that. I still wonder if some producer with an agenda put it on her????
amynrich
05-30-2008, 09:15 PM
Its not about Brittany or Paris or whoever...its what about I guess oh hmm should I wear this..Ohh wait it means this or that I shouldnt wear that. I mean come on..
Karole28
05-30-2008, 10:48 PM
Its not about Brittany or Paris or whoever...its what about I guess oh hmm should I wear this..Ohh wait it means this or that I shouldnt wear that. I mean come on..
Ok, so you wear your swastika and I'll wear my Confederate battle flag and we'll go hang out.
When do you not get dressed and wonder what you should or shouldn't wear?
Do you wear a leather mini to your office? Sweat pants?
It's about wearing what's appropriate for your geography and your situation.
arielilane
05-30-2008, 11:16 PM
To me the scarf looks like a dish cloth anyway. I have about 20 of them in my kitchen drawer. That's hilarious, Mygirlsadie.
I have a few myself...:)
arielilane
05-30-2008, 11:17 PM
I'm fairly new to posting so be easy on me :). But honestly I thought the scarf wasnt anything but an accesory. Mind you I watch her show from time to time and think certain things she does/says annoying. But seriously do we really need in this day and age to pick apart everything?!?
Welcome to WS, amy!!!
BhamMama
05-30-2008, 11:50 PM
Stylish and hip? mmmmmyeah...she should pair leg warmers with a pair of booty shorts. I know I always wear a scarf with a short sleeved, lowish cut shirt.
"looks nothing like what they say it does?"
I posted a link earlier to other "scarves". You should check it out.
See, that was my first thought, not that it was a symbol of anything, but who in their right minds let that child walk around with a scarf wearing a short sleeved shirt?
I still don't care about the symbols. I'm a Native woman with red hair who goes to a Jewish temple wearing a Salwar Kameez. And yes, I cover my head with a sal, some days out in public, some days only at Temple.
I've never, ever had anyone say anything, make fun or tell me or say I'm an idiot because I choose to wear something they would not. And if they did I'd not say anything. It's MY choice.
Maybe it's because I live in an area where folks can dress up like angels with wings and tell you the end of the world is coming while holding foam tombstones, or paint themselves silver, slap on a cowboy hat and earn money in the street, or think they are the worlds next greatest vampire by wearing velvet cloaks and bouncing bar....folks just don't care what you wear.
becklynn
05-31-2008, 12:00 AM
Where was the picture taken? It looks an awful lot like Washington D.C. area though I was only there once. Does this have anything to do with the scarf and a political statement.
I thought this whole deal was stupid too until seeing where the picture seems to be taken. Anyone know? It looks familiar.
Truly
05-31-2008, 12:58 AM
(pardon me while I don my Confederate battle flag baseball cap, to wear with my Obama = Curious George tshirt)
See, now, that is just plain ugly and racist. Why not just wear something celebrating something you support instead? If you wore a pro-McCain (or whatever) shirt, nobody would care. Why would anyone want to be all nasty and racist? Yuck.
A handful of people here seem intent on expressing hateful racist ideas. I don't know why. If it is a story about African-Americans, I see the same people yelling 'thug' or 'gangster'. If it is a story about Hispanic-Americans, some people are blatantly hostile and determinedly racist even when the person is a victim of a horrible crime. Racism is honestly worse than the crime of murder, because it is insidious and carries hatred on down through generations. It is un-American at it's core.
Who is anyone to decide what a person in America should wear or what political ideas they ought to express? In America, we are free to decide for ourselves what to wear and who we support. There are many people here who are pro-Jewish, yet abhor how the State of Israel has treated the Palestinian people. Not everybody buys into the right-wing, hate-radio version of international affairs. In America, there is room for all opinions. Wouldn't you agree?
Who cares what a person in America wears? I was once with a group of friends, and some idiot (who thought he had the right to tell other Americans how to dress) started giving one of my friends grief about his red converse high-tops with his cut-off jeans swim trunks and his brightly-colored T-shirt.
The ignorant man snuffed and huffed and said, 'What's that, the costume of your native country?'
My friend responded, 'Yes. That's right. I'm an American. I can wear whatever I want.'
Ha!
absinthe
05-31-2008, 01:04 AM
I haven't posted my comments here yet. I wasn't even aware of the scarf until this latest uprising about it. It is a paisley print. The "official" pattern of the Palestinian head dress is a herringbone pattern.
Years ago, the youth in our church did a Christmas play in church. One member of the congregation was a travel agent and did a lot of Holy Land tours. He helped with the pagent and used a couple of scarves he had brought back. One was the official Palestinian head scarf. I was outraged and let him know and our priest know exactly what it was and what it meant. It's distinctive. He said he'd bought it in Jerusalem in a market and didn't know what it meant. BS, he knew. They did dump the head scarf as my two boys were in the pagent and I threatened to pull them out if they insisted on using it.
I'm actually glad that we are finally turning the tide here with our outrage. It's usually on the other foot. Don't make the terrorists angry, LOL. Ms. Tieger's scarf does look like the Palestinian one, Rachel ray's does not.
It's so funny how the same article of clothing can be construed so differently! The kids often wear kaffiyehs in the Christmas pageant at my church. It's a garment common to shepherds around the Bethlehem area to this day. I think it's nice for a simple piece of clothing to demonstrate a thread that ties the centuries together,
philamena
05-31-2008, 02:30 AM
To me the scarf looks like a dish cloth anyway. I have about 20 of them in my kitchen drawer.
MGS,
:p Hadn't thought of that but it does look like a dish cloth.
gaia227
05-31-2008, 03:03 AM
I told myself I was going to stay out of this but I can't help it. All I have seen written here over and over is about what the Palestinians have done to the Israeli's and never the other way around. The American media have done a good job of convincing people the Palestinians are awful, reactionary terrorists. If you did the research you would find that in 2007 for every 1 Israeli civilian death there were 25 Palestinian deaths. In 2007 5,848 people were killed as a result of the conflict. Of that, 1,024 were Israeli and 4,228 were Palestinian.
The irony of this is a lot of the Palestinians who have suffered are Palestinian Christians. When the modern state of Israel was created there were 400,000 Palestinian Christians - today that number is about 60,000. There villages have been destroyed, they have been starved, died of disease, murdered.
People seem to forget that the Palestinians had their country forcefully taken away from them. Their villages were invaded and citizens murdered in cold blood, women raped, thousands were rounded up and imprisioned forced to work in labor camps under deplorable conditions, their homes, places of worship burned, they were transferred into cramped spaces which quickly became disease ridden ghettos, they had no protection under the new laws. After the invasion and under the Camp David Accords they are corralled into a small sections which are not connected yet their travel is limited by the Israeli's. The land given to them is mostly infertile farm land, with limited water sources. Israeli laws represent the Jewish only. The Arab-Israeli's have no protection under Israeli Basic Laws and they have no rights as citizens - in their own country nonetheless. These initially ruthless implementations by Israel are still in effect today; they have no recognized nation, no power over their daily lives, they are economically strangled, schools, businesses, homes, mosques are burned, they are afflicted by curfews, their travel is limited by checkpoints, roadblocks, random curfews, electric fences and separation walls. Despite those violations of their rights they live under the threat and reality of being bombed, disposed and shot at random by most of which are American supplied weapons. Countless numbers of men and women have been carted off never to be seen again. Of course the excuse after bombing or shooting Palestinian citizens is always the same; there was a threat of a suicide bomber or an insurgency. They do not have an army or military yet they are being attacked and persecuted daily so what are they going to do? They use suicide bombers and other terrorist tactics against Israel. It is their fundamental right to defend their country and their country's citizens. Why is it when Palestinians retaliate it is a terrorist act yet when Israeli tanks roll into a village or Israeli planes drop bombs on the houses of innocent people it is acceptable? When the Palenstinians retaliate, yes, Israeli citizens die and I think that is sad too. I have nothing against the Israeli citizens. But one cannot expect them to do nothing when they are being forced to live in such deplorable conditions in their own country. Since the invasion and creation of the Israeli state their intentions towards the Palestinians is pretty clear - they do not want them there at all and have and still are committing unbelievable attrocities in front of the whole world. This all started because zionist believed that basically Palestine was historically their homeland because of what is said in the Bible. They thought because it was recorded this land is entitled to them so they forcefully take it and then persecute the inhabitants of that land every since yet their actions are seen (mainly in the West) as being acceptable especially since so many of the Palestinians who were initally effected and murdered were Christians really blows my mind. The Western media has been brillant at making terrorist and Palestinian synonamous and have instilled in the public a gross mis-perception of what is happening because of our ties with Israel and our weapons and money is going to support these attrocities because we have our own interests in the region to protect. The propaganda regaring the Palestinian crisis is overwhelming. All any interested person has to do is visit the UN website or any human rights group, Amensty International, etc and it becomes quite clear the misproportionate use of force Israel is using and how many people have died as a result.
The issue of Rachel Ray's scarf is the embodiment of the results of the western propaganda machine. They have been successful at persuading Americans to think of terrorist when they think of Palestine. The fact that she was wearing a scarf that merely resembled those worn by Palestinians was enough to get the ad pulled off the air is really shows our immaturity as a nation and our unbelievable ethnocentrism. It is absolutely absurd and it is offensive but for other reason's.
I am sorry for going on and on. Some of the people's comments on this thread which are ripe with racism and ignorance really got to me. I realize that at the moment I am being a little reactionary. While I support the Palestinians I don't hate Israeli's; I hate what their gov't has done and I hate the US's involvement in the whole situation and I hate how mis-informed so many people are. Simply because they hear what they hear on the news and take it at that instead of doing some independent research and even if their opinion stays the same at least they are getting both sides of the story. Things are never as black and white as they seem on the nightly news.
Pharlap
05-31-2008, 06:56 AM
See, now, that is just plain ugly and racist. Why not just wear something celebrating something you support instead? If you wore a pro-McCain (or whatever) shirt, nobody would care. Why would anyone want to be all nasty and racist? Yuck.
A handful of people here seem intent on expressing hateful racist ideas. I don't know why. If it is a story about African-Americans, I see the same people yelling 'thug' or 'gangster'. If it is a story about Hispanic-Americans, some people are blatantly hostile and determinedly racist even when the person is a victim of a horrible crime. Racism is honestly worse than the crime of murder, because it is insidious and carries hatred on down through generations. It is un-American at it's core.
Who is anyone to decide what a person in America should wear or what political ideas they ought to express? In America, we are free to decide for ourselves what to wear and who we support. There are many people here who are pro-Jewish, yet abhor how the State of Israel has treated the Palestinian people. Not everybody buys into the right-wing, hate-radio version of international affairs. In America, there is room for all opinions. Wouldn't you agree?
Who cares what a person in America wears? I was once with a group of friends, and some idiot (who thought he had the right to tell other Americans how to dress) started giving one of my friends grief about his red converse high-tops with his cut-off jeans swim trunks and his brightly-colored T-shirt.
The ignorant man snuffed and huffed and said, 'What's that, the costume of your native country?'
My friend responded, 'Yes. That's right. I'm an American. I can wear whatever I want.'
Ha!
Of all the people to intentionally insulting them, our Rachel Ray.NOT!!!!!!!!!
GIVE ME A BREAK.
This is getting as bad as the McCarthy era.
People couldn't talk about just anything in those days..
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAmccarthyism.htm
Karole28
05-31-2008, 09:12 AM
See, now, that is just plain ugly and racist. Why not just wear something celebrating something you support instead? If you wore a pro-McCain (or whatever) shirt, nobody would care. Why would anyone want to be all nasty and racist? Yuck.
See, that's the thing. In my opinion the Palestinian scarf carries no less of a racist tone than most people would consider the Confederate flag.
I can scream from the roof tops all day that it's a modified American flag, and doesn't mean anything to me but southern heritage, you can scream all day that it screams slavery to you.
Nobody here is saying that you can't wear what you want. This is indeed America.
And, it is inherently American to speak out and boycott a company and speak your mind if you don't agree with something.
Our system works!
(I'm using the Confederate flag as a comparison because other than the swastika, I can't think of anything else that comes close)
Karole28
05-31-2008, 09:18 AM
I told myself I was going to stay out of this but I can't help it. All I have seen written here over and over is about what the Palestinians have done to the Israeli's and never the other way around. The American media have done a good job of convincing people the Palestinians are awful, reactionary terrorists. If you did the research you would find that in 2007 for every 1 Israeli civilian death there were 25 Palestinian deaths. In 2007 5,848 people were killed as a result of the conflict. Of that, 1,024 were Israeli and 4,228 were Palestinian.
I don't want to get into this here, but please believe we hear plenty in the mainstream media when an Israeli rocket kills a Palestinian.
We hear about the Palestinian "holocaust" and I'll say here what I said in the PP, for people who believe that Palestinians are suffering a "holocaust" at the hands of the Israelis, I'd like to know how you explain their numbers tripling the way they have?
The Palestinians have elected Hamas as their representatives, good luck with that.
Karole28
05-31-2008, 09:24 AM
See, that was my first thought, not that it was a symbol of anything, but who in their right minds let that child walk around with a scarf wearing a short sleeved shirt?
I still don't care about the symbols. I'm a Native woman with red hair who goes to a Jewish temple wearing a Salwar Kameez. And yes, I cover my head with a sal, some days out in public, some days only at Temple.
I've never, ever had anyone say anything, make fun or tell me or say I'm an idiot because I choose to wear something they would not. And if they did I'd not say anything. It's MY choice.
Maybe it's because I live in an area where folks can dress up like angels with wings and tell you the end of the world is coming while holding foam tombstones, or paint themselves silver, slap on a cowboy hat and earn money in the street, or think they are the worlds next greatest vampire by wearing velvet cloaks and bouncing bar....folks just don't care what you wear.
I don't really care either (in public). I admit I find it jarring to see a woman wearing a chador in my local Publix, because it reminds me of a caged bird. I immediately want to rip it off and launch into a speech on oppression and domestic abuse, but remind myself that it's her decision and my opinion likely wouldn't be welcome.
If you take the time to google it, you can find some wonderful western designers who are trying to convince the public that wearing a Burberry burkha is just the thing for fall.
Karole28
05-31-2008, 09:25 AM
Where was the picture taken? It looks an awful lot like Washington D.C. area though I was only there once. Does this have anything to do with the scarf and a political statement.
I thought this whole deal was stupid too until seeing where the picture seems to be taken. Anyone know? It looks familiar.
I dont know but that's a good point.
It may be the cherry blossoms, but it does look like DC. Don't ask me exactly where, though.
Paladin
05-31-2008, 10:34 AM
This thread needs more Rachel Ray hating. :)
Karole28
05-31-2008, 10:46 AM
This thread needs more Rachel Ray hating. :)
Ok, so watched about 15 minutes of the 30 minute meal program last night.
My snarky teenager pointed out that her belly sticks out further than her boobs.
But, to her credit, I did actually hear her say "Extra Virgin Olive Oil" before reverting back to her EVOO cute-speak.
Ever heard what Anthony Bourdain has to say about her? (I love that man)
He despises her and constantly criticises her inability to actually cook. In public, and often. He said something on one of his programs how this made actually having to work with her for a show, "awkward" to say the least.
lol
crypto6
05-31-2008, 11:59 AM
I told myself I was going to stay out of this but I can't help it. snip
The issue of Rachel Ray's scarf is the embodiment of the results of the western propaganda machine. They have been successful at persuading Americans to think of terrorist when they think of Palestine. The fact that she was wearing a scarf that merely resembled those worn by Palestinians was enough to get the ad pulled off the air is really shows our immaturity as a nation and our unbelievable ethnocentrism. It is absolutely absurd and it is offensive but for other reason's.
I am sorry for going on and on. Some of the people's comments on this thread which are ripe with racism and ignorance really got to me. I realize that at the moment I am being a little reactionary. While I support the Palestinians I don't hate Israeli's; I hate what their gov't has done and I hate the US's involvement in the whole situation and I hate how mis-informed so many people are. Simply because they hear what they hear on the news and take it at that instead of doing some independent research and even if their opinion stays the same at least they are getting both sides of the story. Things are never as black and white as they seem on the nightly news.
Thanks. From one who didn't see any resemblance, but knows subliminal information is purposefully woven into many ad contexts, I wonder if the scarf is inserted as a symbol or is it just a really bad wardrobe choice? If it is a symbol, I wonder what the primary driver for the ad company is here. Controversy to raise web hits and public name recognition? Using the dark-complected Ray to publicize and call attention to the Palestinian people and their treatment?
Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful article.
C6
arielilane
05-31-2008, 12:24 PM
I told myself I was going to stay out of this but I can't help it. All I have seen written here over and over is about what the Palestinians have done to the Israeli's and never the other way around. The American media have done a good job of convincing people the Palestinians are awful, reactionary terrorists. If you did the research you would find that in 2007 for every 1 Israeli civilian death there were 25 Palestinian deaths. In 2007 5,848 people were killed as a result of the conflict. Of that, 1,024 were Israeli and 4,228 were Palestinian.
The irony of this is a lot of the Palestinians who have suffered are Palestinian Christians. When the modern state of Israel was created there were 400,000 Palestinian Christians - today that number is about 60,000. There villages have been destroyed, they have been starved, died of disease, murdered.
People seem to forget that the Palestinians had their country forcefully taken away from them. Their villages were invaded and citizens murdered in cold blood, women raped, thousands were rounded up and imprisioned forced to work in labor camps under deplorable conditions, their homes, places of worship burned, they were transferred into cramped spaces which quickly became disease ridden ghettos, they had no protection under the new laws. After the invasion and under the Camp David Accords they are corralled into a small sections which are not connected yet their travel is limited by the Israeli's. The land given to them is mostly infertile farm land, with limited water sources. Israeli laws represent the Jewish only. The Arab-Israeli's have no protection under Israeli Basic Laws and they have no rights as citizens - in their own country nonetheless. These initially ruthless implementations by Israel are still in effect today; they have no recognized nation, no power over their daily lives, they are economically strangled, schools, businesses, homes, mosques are burned, they are afflicted by curfews, their travel is limited by checkpoints, roadblocks, random curfews, electric fences and separation walls. Despite those violations of their rights they live under the threat and reality of being bombed, disposed and shot at random by most of which are American supplied weapons. Countless numbers of men and women have been carted off never to be seen again. Of course the excuse after bombing or shooting Palestinian citizens is always the same; there was a threat of a suicide bomber or an insurgency. They do not have an army or military yet they are being attacked and persecuted daily so what are they going to do? They use suicide bombers and other terrorist tactics against Israel. It is their fundamental right to defend their country and their country's citizens. Why is it when Palestinians retaliate it is a terrorist act yet when Israeli tanks roll into a village or Israeli planes drop bombs on the houses of innocent people it is acceptable? When the Palenstinians retaliate, yes, Israeli citizens die and I think that is sad too. I have nothing against the Israeli citizens. But one cannot expect them to do nothing when they are being forced to live in such deplorable conditions in their own country. Since the invasion and creation of the Israeli state their intentions towards the Palestinians is pretty clear - they do not want them there at all and have and still are committing unbelievable attrocities in front of the whole world. This all started because zionist believed that basically Palestine was historically their homeland because of what is said in the Bible. They thought because it was recorded this land is entitled to them so they forcefully take it and then persecute the inhabitants of that land every since yet their actions are seen (mainly in the West) as being acceptable especially since so many of the Palestinians who were initally effected and murdered were Christians really blows my mind. The Western media has been brillant at making terrorist and Palestinian synonamous and have instilled in the public a gross mis-perception of what is happening because of our ties with Israel and our weapons and money is going to support these attrocities because we have our own interests in the region to protect. The propaganda regaring the Palestinian crisis is overwhelming. All any interested person has to do is visit the UN website or any human rights group, Amensty International, etc and it becomes quite clear the misproportionate use of force Israel is using and how many people have died as a result.
The issue of Rachel Ray's scarf is the embodiment of the results of the western propaganda machine. They have been successful at persuading Americans to think of terrorist when they think of Palestine. The fact that she was wearing a scarf that merely resembled those worn by Palestinians was enough to get the ad pulled off the air is really shows our immaturity as a nation and our unbelievable ethnocentrism. It is absolutely absurd and it is offensive but for other reason's.
I am sorry for going on and on. Some of the people's comments on this thread which are ripe with racism and ignorance really got to me. I realize that at the moment I am being a little reactionary. While I support the Palestinians I don't hate Israeli's; I hate what their gov't has done and I hate the US's involvement in the whole situation and I hate how mis-informed so many people are. Simply because they hear what they hear on the news and take it at that instead of doing some independent research and even if their opinion stays the same at least they are getting both sides of the story. Things are never as black and white as they seem on the nightly news.Thank you for your insightful post, gaia. You're speaking the truth and I appreciate that. :clap:
Karole28
05-31-2008, 12:36 PM
This all started because zionist believed that basically Palestine was historically their homeland because of what is said in the Bible. They thought because it was recorded this land is entitled to them so they forcefully take it and then persecute the inhabitants of that land every since yet their actions are seen (mainly in the West) as being acceptable especially since so many of the Palestinians who were initally effected and murdered were Christians really blows my mind.
(Paragraphs are your friend)
A) Why isn't Jordan getting involved with Egypt to "free" the Palestinians?
B) Does it escape you that the Palestinians believe that they have a religious right to the same "homeland"?
C) Your use of "zion/ist" (lower case) and "Palestinian" (upper) does make me wonder about your own prejudice.
Karole28
05-31-2008, 12:45 PM
And, let us never forget the Palestinians celebrating 9/11. I'll be happy to provide the pics for that. :rolleyes:
GetSmart
05-31-2008, 01:04 PM
I did not think twice when I saw the pic. It was just a scarf. Living in Fl we really do not dress up that much here at least not in my circle of friends.
What I hate seeing is someones underwear and their pants around the middle of their buttocks (Forrest Gump pronouncation).
Our nation is facing some serious issues in the near future & the sheeple better wake up. The media & the propaganda machine(gaia227) play us every chance they get. Personally all the PC stuff at times really gets to me. After awhile enough is enough. It's like they try anything to throw us off the important things at hand They are playing on America's short attention span disorder.
curiositycat
05-31-2008, 01:55 PM
[quote=gaia227;2263092]
The irony of this is a lot of the Palestinians who have suffered are Palestinian Christians. When the modern state of Israel was created there were 400,000 Palestinian Christians - today that number is about 60,000. There villages have been destroyed, they have been starved, died of disease, murdered.
People seem to forget that the Palestinians had their country forcefully taken away from them. Their villages were invaded and citizens murdered in cold blood, women raped, thousands were rounded up and imprisioned forced to work in labor camps under deplorable conditions, their homes, places of worship burned, they were transferred into cramped spaces which quickly became disease ridden ghettos, they had no protection under the new laws. After the invasion and under the Camp David Accords they are corralled into a small sections which are not connected yet their travel is limited by the Israeli's. The land given to them is mostly infertile farm land, with limited water sources. Israeli laws represent the Jewish only. The Arab-Israeli's have no protection under Israeli Basic Laws and they have no rights as citizens - in their own country nonetheless. These initially ruthless implementations by Israel are still in effect today; they have no recognized nation, no power over their daily lives, they are economically strangled, schools, businesses, homes, mosques are burned, they are afflicted by curfews, their travel is limited by checkpoints, roadblocks, random curfews, electric fences and separation walls. Despite those violations of their rights they live under the threat and reality of being bombed, disposed and shot at random by most of which are American supplied weapons. Countless numbers of men and women have been carted off never to be seen again. Of course the excuse after bombing or shooting Palestinian citizens is always the same; there was a threat of a suicide bomber or an insurgency. They do not have an army or military yet they are being attacked and persecuted daily so what are they going to do? They use suicide bombers and other terrorist tactics against Israel. It is their fundamental right to defend their country and their country's citizens. Why is it when Palestinians retaliate it is a terrorist act yet when Israeli tanks roll into a village or Israeli planes drop bombs on the houses of innocent people it is acceptable? When the Palenstinians retaliate, yes, Israeli citizens die and I think that is sad too. I have nothing against the Israeli citizens. But one cannot expect them to do nothing when they are being forced to live in such deplorable conditions in their own country. Since the invasion and creation of the Israeli state their intentions towards the Palestinians is pretty clear - they do not want them there at all and have and still are committing unbelievable attrocities in front of the whole world. This all started because zionist believed that basically Palestine was historically their homeland because of what is said in the Bible. They thought because it was recorded this land is entitled to them so they forcefully take it and then persecute the inhabitants of that land every since yet their actions are seen (mainly in the West) as being acceptable especially since so many of the Palestinians who were initally effected and murdered were Christians really blows my mind. The Western media has been brillant at making terrorist and Palestinian synonamous and have instilled in the public a gross mis-perception of what is happening because of our ties with Israel and our weapons and money is going to support these attrocities because we have our own interests in the region to protect. The propaganda regaring the Palestinian crisis is overwhelming. All any interested person has to do is visit the UN website or any human rights group, Amensty International, etc and it becomes quite clear the misproportionate use of force Israel is using and how many people have died as a result.
Well, you did open a can of worms Gaia, but since you did I feel justified in giving another viewpoint.
I am not a pushover who believes ANYONES propaganda. In 2004 I wanted to know the truth regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I began to research it and the following are some of the books that I read. Of all these books the one written by Joan Peters is the most significant. The reason it is so is that she was the mistress of Arafat. She set out to write a book proving that the land belonged to the Egyptians. In doing so she was faced with facts that were so overwhelming that she simply had to admit she was wrong. The land belongs to the Israeli’s.
These are the books I recommend to anyone in their search for clarity; From Time Immemorial, Joan Peters, The History of Israel, Howard Sachar and The Middle East, Bernard Lewis.
Israel belongs to the Jews. The facts are that the Jews have occupied the land referred to as either Palestine or Israel for over 3 thousand years of recorded history. Sure they have been invaded and ruled over by many different people and empires. In 625 BC, they were invaded and ruled by the Babylonians, then the Medo-Persians in 558 BC, followed by the Greco-Macedonians in 333 BC, and the Roman's in 31 BC and in 638 AD they were invaded and occupied by the Muslims. The Jews did not invade Israel or Palestine, as their forefathers have lived there continuously from time immemorial. Beginning in 1890 AD, many Jews began returning to Israel, based on a promise that they could have their own home land, but they never displaced anyone.
In fact the Muslims followed them because Jews began settling in barren unpopulated Israel, on land purchased from absent Arab landowners, and began creating industry, agriculture and economic opportunities. In 1917 the League of Nations decided to create a homeland for the Jews. The Balfour Declaration confirmed this intention in December 1917.
The land set aside by the League of Nations and transferred to the administration of Britain included the present land of Israel and the land now known as Jordan. The League of Nations and Britain did not confiscate land inhabited by Arabs and designate it for the Jews. Furthermore Britain mishandled their mandate and allocated the area of Jordan to the Arabs contrary to the intent of the League of Nations. Today, the Jews occupy less than 10% of the land that was originally set-aside for them by the League of Nations. The Arabs attacked Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 and Muslim violence against the Jews continues to this day.
The reason for this aggression is quite simple. Muslims believe that the earth belongs to Muhammad and Allah and any land ever occupied and inhabited by Muslims belongs to them forever.
As far as the “UN” is concerned they believe that Jerusalem should be an “international city” ruled by them. If that is the case they will soon start to make all large cities “International”, such as New York and London. Can you say “One World Government?”
While I appreciate your right to say what ever you want in this FREE country, could you please provide links to data by a reliable source regarding the Jews raping Palestinians? That would violate the laws of Torah Observant Jews and I will need to see research on that.
Facts only, with links, not someone’s emotional discourse.
With all due respect to your beliefs, these are mine. All information here can be found in the above books. Some of it was found in my study. It is the opinions of noted historians.
Karole28
05-31-2008, 02:06 PM
Thank you for your input!
I began to research it and the following are some of the books that I read. Of all these books the one written by Joan Peters is the most significant. The reason it is so is that she was the mistress of Arafat. She set out to write a book proving that the land belonged to the Egyptians. In doing so she was faced with facts that were so overwhelming that she simply had to admit she was wrong. The land belongs to the Israeli’s.
That sounds facinating, and I will be looking for it!
curiositycat
05-31-2008, 02:30 PM
Thank you for your input!
That sounds facinating, and I will be looking for it!
I know you will love it! :)
Karole28
05-31-2008, 02:39 PM
I know you will love it! :)
I found it!
"no fewer than 189 pages are taken up by appendices, notes, bibliography and index. Together with 412 pages of text, comprising the book."
Sounds like she did her research! I will be ordering this!
Thank you so much!
curiositycat
05-31-2008, 02:55 PM
I found it!
"no fewer than 189 pages are taken up by appendices, notes, bibliography and index. Together with 412 pages of text, comprising the book."
Sounds like she did her research! I will be ordering this!
Thank you so much!
:blowkiss: no problem! It sure did open my eyes!
absinthe
05-31-2008, 03:40 PM
Thank you Gaia, for your post!
Thank you Curiosity Cat, as well. However, I'd like to point out that Gaia's post dealt mainly with the plight of Arab Christians, while yours seems to focus solely on the Muslim point of view (regarding ownership of Palestine/Israel). Would you like to address the issue of Palestinian Christians (who have certainly been living in the area longer than the Muslims)? Thanks!
absinthe
05-31-2008, 03:56 PM
ok wait...
absinthe
05-31-2008, 04:02 PM
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2112/23003900dc3.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2112/23003900dc3.69613ac886.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=225&i=23003900dc3.png)
Lolz!
curiositycat
05-31-2008, 05:46 PM
Thank you Gaia, for your post!
Thank you Curiosity Cat, as well. However, I'd like to point out that Gaia's post dealt mainly with the plight of Arab Christians, while yours seems to focus solely on the Muslim point of view (regarding ownership of Palestine/Israel). Would you like to address the issue of Palestinian Christians (who have certainly been living in the area longer than the Muslims)? Thanks!
The Christians there, and I know some of them, say that everything went well for them until they took the Jews out of Gaza. Then Hamas, not fearing any retribution brought gangs of thugs in there. There are Messianic Christians there who have been abused now...because of Hamas.
curiositycat
05-31-2008, 05:59 PM
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813061916&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813061916&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)
This article discusses the fact that Hamas has destroyed churches of Christians. Not the Jews.
absinthe
06-09-2008, 11:29 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24972847/
philamena
06-09-2008, 02:07 PM
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2112/23003900dc3.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2112/23003900dc3.69613ac886.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=225&i=23003900dc3.png)
Lolz!
:D :clap: Too cute!
absinthe
06-09-2008, 02:10 PM
Thanks philamena! I LOVE LOL cats!
philamena
06-09-2008, 02:22 PM
He/ she is one great looking cat absiy.
ckhagen
06-09-2008, 09:56 PM
I saw the ad a few weeks ago. Honestly I don't think it looks a thing like the real deal, nor do I think for one second that there was any actual symbolism, intentional or not. I think someone WAY over-analyzed the scarf and made it into something it wasn't.
http://celebritystyleblog.wordpress.com/tag/gauze-scarf/
http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urban/catalog/category.jsp?_DAV=true&_dynSessConf=-6684475145322959078&itemCount=60&pushId=&id=W_ACC_SCARVES&startValue=1&selectedProductColor=&navCount=6&navAction=poppush&sortby=&popId=&_DARGS=%2Furban%2Fcatalog%2Fcommon%2Fhighlited_ite mcount.jsp_A&cm_mmc=Google-_-Womens+WAC-_-Scarves-_-fringe+scarf%7C-%7C100000000000000105904&cm_guid=1-_-100000000000000105904-_-1013738177
These scarves are everywhere. I wore a white one today with a tank top and boho skirt. Two days ago I wore a light blue one with a white tee and khaki pants. It's 95 degrees outside, but they're cool and light and dress up the tank tops I have to wear to avoid the heat. Paisley is also very popular right now, as is black and white wardrobes (I shop at White House Black Market frequently).
To first assume that the scarf is somehow potentially a Keffiyeh is a stretch. To then assume that the use of it was intentional to express support for Jihadists is even more absurd.
This is just so reminiscent of a witch hunt.
It reminded me of this incident:
http://newsbusters.org/node/3142
I'm Scotch Irish and if I saw someone wearing a paisley skirt made out of the same colors as our family tartan, I wouldn't assume they were somehow related or that it even had anything to do with the tartan.
TheShadow
06-10-2008, 01:27 PM
Are you Rachel Ray?
I wish! I'd be RICH, RICH, RICH! And I'd get to travel all over for her travel shows. Seriously, I think the FoodNetwork gets a little carried away with whoever their host of the moment is. They give them multiple shows simultaneously, and people just get sick of the over exposure. I think one show at a time per host is enough.
Paladin
06-10-2008, 01:46 PM
Well then, I promise if there are any other Rachel Ray threads to add "pigface" so they are correctly linked together for search reasons. :)
I apologize for the over-the-topness...but my dislike for her is over-the-top!
*swings arms wildy, makes a crooked mouth, and talks with the mentality of a kindergartener like RR does*
Linda7NJ
06-10-2008, 01:48 PM
Well then, I promise if there are any other Rachel Ray threads to add "pigface" so they are correctly linked together for search reasons. :)
I apologize for the over-the-topness...but my dislike for her is over-the-top!
*swings arms wildy, makes a crooked mouth, and talks with the mentality of a kindergartener like RR does*
I agree!
And whoever is getting paid to dress her should be shot!
Please let's get back on topic.....
MCDRAW
06-11-2008, 06:43 AM
Lesson is: research what you wear!
I really miss the good old days where you just put on clothes to cover your body. Clothes weren't considered a political statement and there certainly wasn't a need to research what you put on.
MCDRAW
06-11-2008, 07:04 AM
I just want to say, it amazes me that people leave their Countries, I'm assuming because they are not happy with their Countries. They come to our Country and then want us to change our Country to be more like theirs. We must respect everyone's traditions and forget ours. Some changes have been good, others not so much. We as American's are loosing our rights to be American's. Please do not think I am against people coming to this Country and I am certainly not for prejudice of any kind. But as an American in my Country I think I should have the right to wear whatever I want to, without worrying about offending someone from another Country. Now if I am in their Country I will go by their laws and what they wish. Some of you may consider me ignorant...I personally see myself as an American.
Paladin
06-11-2008, 07:51 AM
I just want to say, it amazes me that people leave their Countries, I'm assuming because they are not happy with their Countries. They come to our Country and then want us to change our Country to be more like theirs. We must respect everyone's traditions and forget ours. Some changes have been good, others not so much. We as American's are loosing our rights to be American's. Please do not think I am against people coming to this Country and I am certainly not for prejudice of any kind. But as an American in my Country I think I should have the right to wear whatever I want to, without worrying about offending someone from another Country. Now if I am in their Country I will go by their laws and what they wish. Some of you may consider me ignorant...I personally see myself as an American.
This post doesn't make much sense to me for multiple reasons.
First, everyone in this country (except the Native Americans) came from overseas, and brought parts of their culture with them. It's not like some American culture already existed for everyone to adopt, it's a culmination of various bits and pieces of other cultures. With that in mind, our culture should be an ever-evolving one. The Italians and Irish were met with alot of the same resistance that the Arabs are now.
Second, it's Americans (or in this case, an American) who are(is) complaining about what someone else (Rachel Ray, an American) is wearing.
Karole28
06-11-2008, 08:45 AM
Second, it's Americans (or in this case, an American) who are(is) complaining about what someone else (Rachel Ray, an American) is wearing.
No, not just "Americans"
From my earlier post:
But Ms Tieger said she had "no idea about the politics" when she bought the scarf at the Tree Of Life store.
"I thought it was a nice scarf, a cowboy scarf. I thought: 'It's black and white, no-one will say anything to me because that's all we can wear [with our work uniform]'.
"A Palestinian customer came up and asked me if I'm wearing this scarf as a fashion statement or for political reasons.
"I had no idea what he was talking about because I don't follow politics at all. I just laughed it off.
"Two days later he called and complained about it."
Shevonne Hunt, a freelance journalist who has reported on the keffiyeh's popularity in Australia, said many Palestinians were annoyed the widespread use of the keffiyeh for fashion had watered down its meaning.
Click! (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/30/1211654279497.html)
Paladin
06-11-2008, 09:13 AM
No, not just "Americans"
From my earlier post:
But Ms Tieger said she had "no idea about the politics" when she bought the scarf at the Tree Of Life store.
"I thought it was a nice scarf, a cowboy scarf. I thought: 'It's black and white, no-one will say anything to me because that's all we can wear [with our work uniform]'.
"A Palestinian customer came up and asked me if I'm wearing this scarf as a fashion statement or for political reasons.
"I had no idea what he was talking about because I don't follow politics at all. I just laughed it off.
"Two days later he called and complained about it."
Shevonne Hunt, a freelance journalist who has reported on the keffiyeh's popularity in Australia, said many Palestinians were annoyed the widespread use of the keffiyeh for fashion had watered down its meaning.
Click! (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/30/1211654279497.html)
People are whiny *****es.
curious1
06-11-2008, 09:32 AM
So why do you think that we give so much power to a piece of cloth? Whether it be a scarf or a flag. The piece of cloth has no power, we give it power and we give those who are offended power. If somone burns a flag I don't get all in a huff, why? It's a flag, it's not my country it's a piece of cloth and they are doing it to get a reaction if they don't get a reaction well all their bluff and bluster was for nothing and they are sorely disappointed. I prefer to dissappoint the silly people than give them the satisfaction of a reaction and power over my emotions. Now I myself would never burn a flag and I am respectful of it for my own reasons, but hey if you want to burn it and shout I hate America, go ahead, but I will not give you the satisfaction of reacting to it and besides you just look silly doing it.
A piece of cloth is just a piece of cloth always has been always will be, it's our perceptions that convolute things and give meaningless fashion accessories power. And our willingness to say "oh I am so sorry you are offended I'll take it off" just adds to it. Those who complain know they will get a reaction and they like that so they keep complaining. If someone complains and we just shrug it off *poof* there goes their power and their satisfaction.
curious1
06-11-2008, 09:34 AM
I saw the ad a few weeks ago. Honestly I don't think it looks a thing like the real deal, nor do I think for one second that there was any actual symbolism, intentional or not. I think someone WAY over-analyzed the scarf and made it into something it wasn't.
http://celebritystyleblog.wordpress.com/tag/gauze-scarf/
http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urban/catalog/category.jsp?_DAV=true&_dynSessConf=-6684475145322959078&itemCount=60&pushId=&id=W_ACC_SCARVES&startValue=1&selectedProductColor=&navCount=6&navAction=poppush&sortby=&popId=&_DARGS=%2Furban%2Fcatalog%2Fcommon%2Fhighlited_ite mcount.jsp_A&cm_mmc=Google-_-Womens+WAC-_-Scarves-_-fringe+scarf%7C-%7C100000000000000105904&cm_guid=1-_-100000000000000105904-_-1013738177
These scarves are everywhere. I wore a white one today with a tank top and boho skirt. Two days ago I wore a light blue one with a white tee and khaki pants. It's 95 degrees outside, but they're cool and light and dress up the tank tops I have to wear to avoid the heat. Paisley is also very popular right now, as is black and white wardrobes (I shop at White House Black Market frequently).
To first assume that the scarf is somehow potentially a Keffiyeh is a stretch. To then assume that the use of it was intentional to express support for Jihadists is even more absurd.
This is just so reminiscent of a witch hunt.
It reminded me of this incident:
http://newsbusters.org/node/3142
I'm Scotch Irish and if I saw someone wearing a paisley skirt made out of the same colors as our family tartan, I wouldn't assume they were somehow related or that it even had anything to do with the tartan.
Ahhhhh a voice of reason. So refreshing.
MCDRAW
06-12-2008, 09:38 AM
This post doesn't make much sense to me for multiple reasons.
First, everyone in this country (except the Native Americans) came from overseas, and brought parts of their culture with them. It's not like some American culture already existed for everyone to adopt, it's a culmination of various bits and pieces of other cultures. With that in mind, our culture should be an ever-evolving one. The Italians and Irish were met with alot of the same resistance that the Arabs are now.
Second, it's Americans (or in this case, an American) who are(is) complaining about what someone else (Rachel Ray, an American) is wearing.
I knew that it wouldn't take long for someone to tell me how stupid I was for having an opinion.
Karole28
06-12-2008, 09:40 AM
I knew that it wouldn't take long for someone to tell me how stupid I was for having an opinion.
Ahhhh...tolerance.
:rolleyes:
lisag
06-12-2008, 09:41 AM
I knew that it wouldn't take long for someone to tell me how stupid I was for having an opinion.
Lol.... Awwww.... well, I dont think your stupid!!
MCDRAW
06-12-2008, 09:45 AM
See I guess I look at it different because half my family came from Mexico the other half from Portugal. Right or wrong we left our traditions behind. My Grandmother always said you come to this Country, you learn their ways and their language. I wish they had kept some of their traditions but they didn't. So I'm guessing some of you will think my whole family is ignorant. Now you know where I get it.
curious1
06-12-2008, 09:46 AM
I wonder, do you have to agree with someone elses opinion to be deemed tolerant? I'm confused on that part.
MCDRAW
06-12-2008, 09:46 AM
Lol.... Awwww.... well, I dont think your stupid!!
Thanks, you may be in the minority on this thread though.
MCDRAW
06-12-2008, 09:47 AM
I wonder, do you have to agree with someone elses opinion to be deemed tolerant? I'm confused on that part.
me too.
I knew that it wouldn't take long for someone to tell me how stupid I was for having an opinion.
Paladin didn't say you were stupid. For what it's worth I think you are absolutley right :)
curious1
06-12-2008, 09:47 AM
See I guess I look at it different because half my family came from Mexico the other half from Portugal. Right or wrong we left our traditions behind. My Grandmother always said you come to this Country, you learn their ways and their language. I wish they had kept some of their traditions but they didn't. So I'm guessing some of you will think my whole family is ignorant. Now you know where I get it.
It's not dumb or stupid to be proud of your heritage. I bet you are just as supportive of your friends who are of a different heritage being proud of their heritage. And even if your family didn't keep any of the traditions dig around and find them out and/or start your own traditions and be damn proud of them.
Karole28
06-12-2008, 09:47 AM
I knew that it wouldn't take long for someone to tell me how stupid I was for having an opinion.
Yeah, I don't think you're stupid either. :blowkiss:
Karole28
06-12-2008, 09:49 AM
I wonder, do you have to agree with someone elses opinion to be deemed tolerant? I'm confused on that part.
No I don't think having a different opinion makes you a "whiny *****" either.
curious1
06-12-2008, 09:50 AM
No I don't think having a different opinion makes you a "whiny *****" either.
Well, that depends entirely on the person, not the opinon.
Karole28
06-12-2008, 09:51 AM
Well, that depends entirely on the person, not the opinon.
It's in the eye of the beholder, I'm supposing.
Well, that depends entirely on the person, not the opinon.
lol..if that person is female to some any opinion fits whiny ***** profile
curious1
06-12-2008, 09:53 AM
lol..if that person is female to some any opinion fits whiny ***** profile
Amen to that.
Paladin
06-12-2008, 10:09 AM
Paladin didn't say you were stupid.
You're right, I didn't. Why is this an issue?
Karole28
06-12-2008, 10:28 AM
You're right, I didn't. Why is this an issue?
It appears that you don't think anything being discussed (including the main issue) is worth being "an issue".
Which begs the obvious question..
..why post on a thread that you believe at the core to be a non-issue?
Paladin
06-12-2008, 10:36 AM
It appears that you don't think anything being discussed (including the main issue) is worth being "an issue".
Which begs the obvious question..
..why post on a thread that you believe at the core to be a non-issue?
I started the thread, I'll do what I please without owing you an explanation.
ETA: When did I say the main discussion was a non-issue?
Karole28
06-12-2008, 10:45 AM
I started the thread, I'll do what I please without owing you an explanation.
ETA: When did I say the main discussion was a non-issue?
Ahh, sorry. It was the "whiny *****es" comment that threw me off.
Paladin
06-12-2008, 10:48 AM
Ahh, sorry. It was the "whiny *****es" comment that threw me off.
Everyone makes mistakes. I'm sure you'll recover.
Karole28
06-12-2008, 10:52 AM
Everyone makes mistakes. I'm sure you'll recover.
I'm sure I'll find a way.
;)
Everyone makes mistakes. I'm sure you'll recover.
I even made one once :)
Paladin
06-12-2008, 10:58 AM
I even made one once :)
I do all the time. My wife makes sure to let me know. :)
lisag
06-12-2008, 02:40 PM
I do all the time. My wife makes sure to let me know. :)
Smart woman, your wife... :crazy:
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