Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #2

[SeriouslySearching]

How dense is the woods there? Are there tracks for either trucks to get through or powerlines near the road where the girls were walking? It looked like it was too heavily wooded right there to get back into the woods for vehicles, but running near the site, cutting deeper into the woods on google, there looked like a utility clearing.

"He said an aviation unit with the Oklahoma Highway Patrol was also helping to scour the scene for clues."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66012&page=10They said they were looking for places someone could possibly hide and other things. I kind of thought maybe an abandoned vehicle etc.

Walking in the ditch on the side of the road, maybe they were looking for turtles since they loved animals. A country road like that; there are no rules and people could just walk anywhere on the road. Would the girls have wandered into the woods a bit looking for animals and saw something else? With her love of animals it is possible she would go into the woods, but they knew they were short on time. (I would assume they knew the mom would be coming soon and why they didn't stay at the bridge long.)

If they made it to the bridge, then turned around (not even seeing anything) yet turned around when their cell phone rang; maybe a culprit heard their phone and assumed they witnessed something. If the girls had seen something, they would have started running or used the cell phone. Walking back from the bridge, on the road next to the woods; is there anywhere in the woods that a meth lab could be stashed? Yes, it doesn't take much space to stash the whole cooking process and supplies. They run across the materials dumped all the time and have to call a special team to collect them.

If it was a thrill killing, then local boys should be looked at. Execution styles are show in movies and video games. The u-turn the vehicle made was away from the direction the girls lived, correct? They haven't said which direction the vehicle was going...only the girls.

Then one would think they knew that houses or at least the girls' were in that direction. To pull a u-turn is harder than to keep on driving in the direction they were originally facing. The road was quite wide enough to do a u-turn without any problem. I watched Greta again and paid close attention to what the grandmother said. She seemed to indicate they thought the girls were killed first and they unloaded the guns into them as they laid there. This could be the case and would make more sense with the direction of the one under the chin. That shot would be easier if they were both standing.

[gaia227]

Fred Phelps and his followers at the church of 'hate' are all insane. I have no doubts that some of his many children are products of incest. They use the bible as a tool for spreading hate through distortion and manipulation of the words. They truly believe that they are going to be the only people on the entire planet who are going to heaven. Their entire philosophy is based on hatred of homosexuals. They see bad things that happen as punishment to Americans for being tolerant of homosexuality/sodomy. I saw one of them, his daughter, interviewed and she was talking about how overjoyed they all were on 9/11 because all of those sinners were killed.
Here is their official website: http://www.godhatesfags.com/.
On their homepage they are thanking God for the deaths of the boy scouts in Iowa.

[SeriouslySearching]

Here's a link to Greta's Interview Archive:

http://www.foxnews.com/column_archive/0,2976,76,00.htmlIt isn't up, but with all the information released from the grandmother...she should put it up today. (Time for a message to Greta's staff!)

[SeriouslySearching]

I think we should ban the mention of the Phelps' group from this site. They only want attention so why give it to them? If people stopped feeding them, they might go away or do something so horrendous they can arrest them once and for all.

[winteryns]

Westboro Church May Protest at Girls' Funerals

6/13/2008

(Topeka, KS) -- The idiots from the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, infamous for protesting at soldiers funeral across the country are planning to protest at one or both of the funerals for the girls shot to death near Weleetka. A church member says the girls were killed because of the sins of Oklahoma. Services for 13 year old Taylor Placker will be at 10am in Dewar and 11 year old Skyla Whitaker will be remembered beginning at 2pm in Henrietta.

How come people can shoot two innocent little girls but these idiots get to walk around and do these types of things? :mad: Why hasn't anybody tried to shoot them?

[SuziQ]

I think we should ban the mention of the Phelps' group from this site. They only want attention so why give it to them? If people stopped feeding them, they might go away or do something so horrendous they can arrest them once and for all.

I hope they are all traveling on the same bus and get hit by a train.

[XcomSquaddie]

I think we should ban the mention of the Phelps' group from this site. They only want attention so why give it to them? If people stopped feeding them, they might go away or do something so horrendous they can arrest them once and for all.

I'd say we can keep this thread on topic and refrain from discussing WBC here.

But I don't think you should ban mentioning them from the entire site. People need to know exactly what they're dealing with, regarding those idiots. People not talking is exactly how that vile PoS has been able to thrive for so long.

[Patience]

Here is a link to good coverage of the case for those just joining this thread. You may have to register, well worth it IMO.

http://www.newsok.com/news/weleetkaslayings

ETA: Also a good link from the same site regarding cold cases
http://coldcaseokc.com/

Thank you SuziQ for the links. I find the cases of the three little girls one that we should look closer at as the perp has not been caught. He could still be alive now but an older person and still living or comes back to the area.

[gaia227]

I really don't think it is just attention they want. Even if no one talks about them they will continue what they are doing. They were doing long before they ever got media attention for it. They are doing it for God.....and I am sure he REALLY appreciates it and they are doing it for themselves. They find validation in the suffering of other people. But I agree, this thread is about these two little girls not Fred Phelps.

[anneinchicago]

I wonder, with her love of animals, if Taylor didn't hear something in the woods (or beyond), thought it was an animal in distress and go investigate. Thus the two stumbling upon whatever.

I have a couple of questions that have nothing to do with the timeline that I haven't seen answered (or else I missed them).

The cell phone. Where was it? Dropped by the bodies? If so, why was it not in a pocket, but, it seems, in one of the girl's hand? If it was in her hand and if they were going to answer the grandfather's call to come back, wouldn't that narrow the time down even more?

What was said on the 911 call?

Who else did the grandfather call and in what order? Who called who and when did everyone get to the scene? EMTS? Parents? Police? Would the police have come with the EMTS or later (did the grandfather say they were shot or did the authorities think it might have been an accident (car hitting them)

Who placed the cover over the girls and wouldn't it have contaminated any evidence on the bodies?

If the EMTS treated the girls (and why, if they were so obviously dead) wouldn't that have also screwed up any evidence? They must have touched the bodies in more than just a check to see if they were dead if there was gauze on one of the wounds.

If there are shell casings, the grandfather hasn't (to my knowledge) said he saw them. Now, he might have missed them in his distress, but, if not, I wonder what else he might have saw that he hasn't said publicly.

[SuziQ]

NANCY GRACE
Witness Says He Saw Oklahoma Schoolgirls Just Before Murder
Aired June 12, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0806/12/ng.01.html

[Garnan]

This thread is so long and I am sure this has been asked but does OK have the DP?

You bet we do, and we use it. Whoever did this will die in McAlester. We've had a lot of rain in the past couple of weeks, I would be very surprised if the creek/river wasn't full of water.

[Taximom]

She needs to fix that! I thought she posted them in interview archives. :(

Oh, maybe she's changed that! Please let me know if that's true. I can't watch her show anymore (no cable) but I'd love to read the transcripts. I know she'll post popular video segments and sometimes that helped in past cases. Please let me know!! Thanks.

UGH, that group who will remain nameless pisses me off. We do have a thread about them here if people want to talk about them more there. Sometimes you just have to vent about things like that.

[SeriouslySearching]

I wonder, with her love of animals, if Taylor didn't hear something in the woods (or beyond), thought it was an animal in distress and go investigate. Thus the two stumbling upon whatever.

I have a couple of questions that have nothing to do with the timeline that I haven't seen answered (or else I missed them).

The cell phone. Where was it? Dropped by the bodies? If so, why was it not in a pocket, but, it seems, in one of the girl's hand? If it was in her hand and if they were going to answer the grandfather's call to come back, wouldn't that narrow the time down even more? The girls were wearing t-shirts and shorts so the phone was probably in her hand and had dropped, but they haven't verified it. You can't tell why they were unable to answer. They could have already been gone by then so the call won't tell much.

What was said on the 911 call? They haven't released that yet, but I would think the national news media is working on getting it.

Who else did the grandfather call and in what order? No mention of anyone except 911. He flagged down Skyla's mom who was arriving at his house and she drove further up to him. She made a call to the grandparents to bring the father.

Who called who and when did everyone get to the scene? Grandfather first and then Skyla's mother. The order everyone else arrived is unknown right now.

EMTS? They have not released the time of arrival to my knowledge.

Would the police have come with the EMTS? Yes, 911 would have notified them because the grandfather told everyone "They shot the girls" according to what Skyla's grandmother said last night. It would depend on where the closest Deputy or the Sheriff was on when they arrived.

Who placed the cover over the girls and wouldn't it have contaminated any evidence on the bodies? EMTs and they would account for their DNA, fingerprints, etc.

If the EMTS treated the girls (and why, if they were so obviously dead) wouldn't that have also screwed up any evidence? They must have touched the bodies in more than just a check to see if they were dead if there was gauze on one of the wounds. (See above)

If there are shell casings, the grandfather hasn't (to my knowledge) said he saw them. Now, he might have missed them in his distress, but, if not, I wonder what else he might have saw that he hasn't said publicly. I am sure as the shock wears off, he will remember things more clearly. Since it was released they found them, there is no need for him to say anything. Hope that answered your questions.

[XcomSquaddie]

I wonder, with her love of animals, if Taylor didn't hear something in the woods (or beyond), thought it was an animal in distress and go investigate. Thus the two stumbling upon whatever.

I don't see that happening. If, like others have suggested the shooters were executing someone, where's the body? If they took that body, why not the girls? I have to think it was a thrill-killing or the girls were targeted.

The cell phone. Where was it? Dropped by the bodies? If so, why was it not in a pocket, but, it seems, in one of the girl's hand? If it was in her hand and if they were going to answer the grandfather's call to come back, wouldn't that narrow the time down even more? It was probably on the ground or clipped on her belt. If the girls were involved in a luring or attempted abduction, the phone may have been out to call for help, possibly triggering the murders.

What was said on the 911 call? I think it would be disturbing, but not helpful. LE does not seem to suspect the family, so

Who else did the grandfather call and in what order? Who called who and when did everyone get to the scene? EMTS? Parents? Police? Would the police have come with the EMTS or later (did the grandfather say they were shot or did the authorities think it might have been an accident (car hitting them)

Not sure where you're going with this one. It sounds like you're questioning the family involvement. Given the intensity of the investigation and the international scrutiny, I would like to think that any family issues would have been brought to light by now.

Remember LE investigates family first, then moves out to friends, acquaintences, then strangers. If the family hasn't been linked by now I'd have to think they were not involved.

Who placed the cover over the girls and wouldn't it have contaminated any evidence on the bodies? If it were the emt's then it was probably cleaned and/or sterile. Contamination would be minimal.

If the EMTS treated the girls (and why, if they were so obviously dead) wouldn't that have also screwed up any evidence? They must have touched the bodies in more than just a check to see if they were dead if there was gauze on one of the wounds.

Dead doesn't always look dead, if you know what I mean. Especially in this day and age, modern medicine can work miracles. The EMT's probably checked vitals thoroughly.

Not to disturb anyone, but: death is not always instantaneous, even with headwounds and gunshots. Wounds will still bleed, the body might twitch, it may even take a few minutes to stop breathing. It all depends on the time between the attack/injury and the emt's arrival.

If there are shell casings, the grandfather hasn't (to my knowledge) said he saw them. Now, he might have missed them in his distress, but, if not, I wonder what else he might have saw that he hasn't said publicly.

The shell casings should not have been "piled up". Shells that are kicked out of a weapon fly randomly. Some go up and back, some go up and out to the side. If you fire a ten-round magazine, there are going to be shells in ten different places. If the casings were in a pile, someone put them there. They are also difficult to find in weeds/grass.

And as far as the grandfather goes, I doubt he saw anything once he saw the bodies. God help him.

[SeriouslySearching]

Another interesting note last night on Greta: The the spokesperson for OSBI (Jessica Brown) said that the witness only came forward in the past 24 hours and she can't say why it took that long because it could tip off his identity.

So it makes me wonder if he was a local trucker perhaps and had been on the road so the reason for the delay. Any ideas?

[XcomSquaddie]

...grandfather told everyone "They shot the girls"...

That is an interesting choice of words. Has he clarified what he meant by "they"? It could mean plural, meaning maybe he saw something else, or it could just be an ambiguous pronoun.

[strach304]

If they haven't checked that creek where the bridge is they should be. After seeing a pic of it I think it's possible they dumped someone there and as they rode down the road saw the girls and assumed they saw them dumping what the girls may have thought was trash. A few pages back someone posted that the bridge was used as an illegal dump site for trash.

[SeriouslySearching]

As many times as the girls were shot, I would jump to the conclusion of "they", too.

[SeriouslySearching]

If they haven't checked that creek where the bridge is they should be. After seeing a pic of it I think it's possible they dumped someone there and as they rode down the road saw the girls and assumed they saw them dumping what the girls may have thought was trash. A few pages back someone posted that the bridge was used as an illegal dump site for trash.I have said this a few times already that I think they should drag the creek for not only another body, but the weapons. You could be exactly right. Whatever the girls may have seen had to warrant such a brutal killing and another murder/body being dumped would certainly fit that theory.

Then again, it was mentioned in rumors they might have been killed because they had threatened to turn someone in for doing drugs. I don't see it, but it is possible.

[SuziQ]

Jessica Brown from OSBI discusses bullet trajectory with Nancy Grace:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0806/12/ng.01.html

(snip)
GRACE: Back to Jessica Brown. I want to follow up on a theory that Pat Brown has just reiterated. Jessica, the possibility that someone was hiding in the woods, knowing these little girls, or somebody -- not necessarily these two, two little girls, 11 and 13 years old, walking down the street. Were the girls shot from in front or from behind?

JESSICA BROWN: We believe they were shot from the front. Now, that is one theory among many we`re looking at, and that`s why today our crime scene investigators not only went back to the scene, but they took a bird`s eye view so they could see in the thicket of trees there, to see if there was any place where someone could hide.

GRACE: Well, have they determined the angle of the trajectory, the angle of the bullet? Because if that were true, someone shot from above, you could clearly see the angle entry, exit at the lower back.

JESSICA BROWN: We do have a good idea of the trajectory at this point in time, but I can`t get into further details with you. But we`re looking at everything. We`re not taking anything lightly here.

GRACE: Well, obviously, based on what you found at the autopsy, you think that`s a possibility, or else you would have not had someone out there today to determine that. But you`re saying from the front to the back. Here`s another question. From the angle in which they fell, Jessica, could you determine if they were shot right there?

JESSICA BROWN: We believe they were shot there at the scene, not shot elsewhere and taken there. We don`t believe they had time to run away, to move, to get out of the way of these bullets.

GRACE: OK. Next question, to Jessica Brown joining us from the State Bureau of Investigation there in Oklahoma. If you know where they were at the time of the shooting and you know entry/exit, you also know which way the vehicle was traveling if the perpetrator was in a vehicle, yes?

JESSICA BROWN: We have a good idea.

ETA: It sounds like an ambush

[less0305]

That is an interesting choice of words. Has he clarified what he meant by "they"? It could mean plural, meaning maybe he saw something else, or it could just be an ambiguous pronoun.

I think he's under the assumption, as is leo, that there were multiple shooters since two guns were used and the girls were shot numerous times. I heard on the news that they suspect more than one person may have been involved.

[STEADFAST]

I have said this a few times already that I think they should drag the creek for not only another body, but the weapons. You could be exactly right. Whatever the girls may have seen had to warrant such a brutal killing and another murder/body being dumped would certainly fit that theory.

Then again, it was mentioned in rumors they might have been killed because they had threatened to turn someone in for doing drugs. I don't see it, but it is possible.

I just saw some footage on MSNBC, and they are doing some sort of searching in the creek, which is practically over its banks.

[XcomSquaddie]

I think he's under the assumption, as is leo, that there were multiple shooters since two guns were used and the girls were shot numerous times. I heard on the news that they suspect more than one person may have been involved.

Yes, it's been well established that there almost had to be two shooters, from police statements, the ballistics and such.

However I was focusing on the grandfather's words in the initial minutes of the investigation.

I was hoping that maybe he had seen something that made him think multiple shooters, or knew of people that the girls had trouble with. I was hoping that maybe the police were keeping mum about it for investigative purposes. I was hoping that it would mean that the police had strong leads and are closing in on the perpetrators.

But I do understand the the grandfather was probably just talking on autpilot, and that the phrasing is so vague as to be meaningless. I was just hoping.

[SeriouslySearching]

I just saw some footage on MSNBC, and they are doing some sort of searching in the creek, which is practically over its banks.Good!! Thanks, Steadfast!

This quote in an article shows how young kids in OK are taught to handle weapons. This boy must have been 8-9 yo when he started...to be good at 10 yo, imo. This is the standard in rural OK. People hunt, fish, and it is a way of life for them. However, I was curious about the father showing off a 9mm when he doesn't know the caliber of guns they are looking for! I wonder if LE caught this?:

A neighbor, Ross Padgett, said drugs and the criminal element are worse than ever.

"Marijuana, meth, coke, you name it," he said. "A number of the meth cookers are right over in this community. They are busting them so hard in the cities, they are going rural." He lifted his shirt to reveal a 9 mm pistol, saying, "I'm not worried."

He said his 10-year-old son, Dakota, arms himself with a knife when he goes out to play on the family's land. The boy has also been trained with a gun.

"I'm good with a shot," Dakota said. "I'm pretty good with almost any gun."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/10/national/main4168258.shtml (Bolded by me)

[SeriouslySearching]

Suzi~ I would think they were ambushed, too. They didn't move to run. My guess is that the car pulled up beside them with their guns drawn. It stopped them immediately. If you have two people holding weapons on you while getting out of a vehicle, you are at their mercy.

[STEADFAST]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/10/national/main4168258.shtml (Bolded by me)

I thought this quote from your link was very interesting, too:
"It just went downhill out in the country," he (Skyla's grandfather) said. "These roads ain't nothing but drunks and dopeheads on the weekends. Sometimes, you have to drive around them, they're passed out in the middle of the road."

[OrdinaryLife]

Good!! Thanks, Steadfast!

This quote in an article shows how young kids in OK are taught to handle weapons. This boy must have been 8-9 yo when he started...to be good at 10 yo, imo. This is the standard in rural OK. People hunt, fish, and it is a way of life for them. However, I was curious about the father showing off a 9mm when he doesn't know the caliber of guns they are looking for! I wonder if LE caught this?:

A neighbor, Ross Padgett, said drugs and the criminal element are worse than ever.

"Marijuana, meth, coke, you name it," he said. "A number of the meth cookers are right over in this community. They are busting them so hard in the cities, they are going rural." He lifted his shirt to reveal a 9 mm pistol, saying, "I'm not worried."

He said his 10-year-old son, Dakota, arms himself with a knife when he goes out to play on the family's land. The boy has also been trained with a gun.

"I'm good with a shot," Dakota said. "I'm pretty good with almost any gun."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/10/national/main4168258.shtml (Bolded by me)

Padgett's statements and showing off his 9mm gun just comes across as a guy who is protecting himself with *his* gun. I do not see any correlation to what mm's were used in this murder at all and/or he having any knowledge of anything more.

What should LE look at concerning this guy?

[Garnan]

I just can't wrap my mind around this. I have been reading all the theories about why they were killed, and none of them work for me. I just can't imagine coming up on 2 little girls and killing them for any reason. I think when they make an arrest we are all going to be shocked at the motive. I'll bet it's something really stupid and has nothing to do with something the girls saw. I bet it's teen-agers or an immature young man or both, and the girls at one time laughed at them or something equally stupid.

[SeriouslySearching]

He is a "neighbor" and could have been in the area at the time...or maybe he has other kids who are older that have access to his guns. I understand his eagerness to show he can protect his family, but something just struck me as different. Can't put my finger on it, but I saw it yesterday and went back to find the article because of that.

[Garnan]

Both girls were shot with both guns. What does that signify? Isn't that odd?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_12_WELEE73577

[CarpeDiem]

Both girls were shot with both guns. What does that signify?

That the killers contempt for them was equal. :waitasec: It wasn't a case of just one being the target and the other was there at the wrong time?

Also, with people saying it had to be two shooters because of two guns, I think back on cases like the VT shooting and other's, that was just one killer who shot multiple times with multiple weapons at the same victims.

[XcomSquaddie]

I think when they make an arrest we are all going to be shocked at the motive.

Yeah, I agree 100%.

[SeriouslySearching]

The grandmother seemed to think they were killed first and then the guns were unloaded into them while laying down. Overkill. It is extremely violent.

The placement of the shots were deliberate and not done hastily, imo. Left arm, right shoulder, legs, under the chin, and in the chest. Skyla was a tiny girl. They had to either be quite close to her or a really good shot from a distance to hit her little legs and arms.

[murdershewrote]

to me it indicates "equality" between the two...like, hey I shot her, now you shoot you, type of thing...to show they were in it together, all the way. Pat Brown, profiler, said last night that LE should be looking for 2 guys who are very tight, do everything together. ..not in the normal "buddy" type way.

do we know if both girls shot in exactly the same places on their bodies...just with alternate weapons.

[Albert18]

I'm thinking along the lines of what Garnan posted. An immature loser who might have had a prior incident involving the girls.

But this probably means only one person and that could work.

If both girls were hit with scattered gunshots from a smaller caliber weapon and then both had one or two finishing shots from a larger caliber weapon then that could have been one person using a fully automatic weapon. He sprays them with the automatic and that would immediately knock both girls down and then he uses the larger caliber weapon for the finishing shots. The larger caliber weapon would be the one that didn't discharge any casings.

Although it still could be two people, one using the automatic and the other waiting for his turn.

I'm no gun expert but I would think the casings should tell them what type of gun, maybe not.

[Garnan]

It's unimaginable that there is even one person out there capable of something like this, but two of them? I just can't believe something like this is possible. Gosh, I wish they'd make an arrest. I hope the perp dies a horrible death in jail.

[XcomSquaddie]

The placement of the shots were deliberate and not done hastily, imo.

FWIW, I disagree. Arm, collarbone, chest, legs. That's a pretty poor grouping. Sounds like fast shooting, although with the number of hits the shooter seems to have a good level of skill.

All that however, is my own opinion only.

[Taximom]

Both girls were shot with both guns. What does that signify? Isn't that odd?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_12_WELEE73577

Is it possible that one gunman could hold a gun in each hand and shoot the initial scattered shots at both girls? :(

[murdershewrote]

I think one guy was driving and the other pointed a gun at them while they pulled up alongside the girls. That way he was controlling them right from the start.

[SuziQ]

The grandmother seemed to think they were killed first and then the guns were unloaded into them while laying down. Overkill. It is extremely violent.

The placement of the shots were deliberate and not done hastily, imo. Left arm, right shoulder, legs, under the chin, and in the chest. Skyla was a tiny girl. They had to either be quite close to her or a really good shot from a distance to hit her little legs and arms.

I think a deliberate placement of shots would have taken too long and you'd find the vics further apart from each other. I'm really feeling a semi automatic was involved here. It happened so quick that the girls had no time to react.

[SeriouslySearching]

Is it possible that one gunman could hold a gun in each hand and shoot the initial scattered shots at both girls? :(It is possible, but I believe the witness has already clued them into the multiple shooter theory...they just aren't releasing it. Reading between the lines, the witness has been able to give them descriptions.

LE has not said anything about the girls' wounds other than the chest and head. The information from the grandmother is firsthand, but only about Skyla. I have no reason to doubt what she says she saw.

I thought they had both shell casings from both weapons? Did I miss something?

[SeriouslySearching]

I think a deliberate placement of shots would have taken too long and you'd find the vics further apart from each other. I'm really feeling a semi automatic was involved here. It happened so quick that the girls had no time to react.Not if they were right up on them and standing over them shooting after the shots to the head. The blood spatter and trajectory should easily tell the story. Which shots were standing and which laying down. They will also be able to tell which was the fatal shot and if it was first or last.

[XcomSquaddie]

Is it possible that one gunman could hold a gun in each hand and shoot the initial scattered shots at both girls? :(

Yes, but not likely.

When a pistol is fired, the muzzle kicks up and to the side. When I shot, it would kick up and to the right. When you take subsequent shots, you have to re-adjust the muzzle back to your target. If you fire a semi-auto, as fast as you can pull the trigger, accuracy is pretty much nil.

Doing this simultaneously, with two pistols, is incredibly difficult.

Now the shooter could have held two guns and fired one after the other, alternating.

However, the LE statements implied that footprints and other evidence supported multiple shooters.

Does that help?

[looneymama]

I don't know much but it feels like two teenage guys to me...the target practice thing seems almost immature...unnecessary either for fun or just to see what happens...

[Taximom]

Yes, that helps a lot, Xcom. Thanks also, SS. :blowkiss:

[SeriouslySearching]

You are welcome, Looneymama~ Hugs~ OT: You aren't looney at ALL! :)

[XcomSquaddie]

I don't know much but it feels like two teenage guys to me...the target practice thing seems almost immature...unnecessary either for fun or just to see what happens...

That's what I get too. Stupid violence. Videogame violence.

[SuziQ]

Not if they were right up on them and standing over them shooting after the shots to the head.

I'm going off of What Jessica Brown from OSBI told Nancy Grace. They went back yesterday to see if someone could have hidden in the brush and that they have a good idea what the trajectory is and whether the Perps were in a vehicle and which way they were traveling (if they were in a vehicle).

IMO, OSBI is looking for a place to do a distance shot. That doesn't mean however, that the perps didn't turn around to get out of their vehicle or emerge from a hiding spot to do an insurance shot.

[SuziQ]

IMO, the girls were dropped with a semi or fully automatic weapon then possibly finished off with an insurance shot to the head. The below quote and the fact the girls were only five feet apart makes me think this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0806/12/ng.01.html

JESSICA BROWN: We believe they were shot there at the scene, not shot elsewhere and taken there. We don`t believe they had time to run away, to move, to get out of the way of these bullets.

Semi-automatic and fully automatic from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_firearm

[SeriouslySearching]

I'm going off of What Jessica Brown from OSBI told Nancy Grace. They went back yesterday to see if someone could have hidden in the brush and that they have a good idea what the trajectory is and whether the Perps were in a vehicle and which way they were traveling (if they were in a vehicle).

IMO, OSBI is looking for a place to do a distance shot. That doesn't mean however, that the perps didn't turn around to get out of their vehicle to do an insurance shot.I went back and reread what she said. You could be right. So it is possible the shooters were in the thicket and came upon the girls there. The car could have come after as a getaway or had been parked after the u-turn facing the other direction already. I wonder if they are thinking across the road initially or from the same area the girls were found?

[looneymama]

That's what I get too. Stupid violence. Videogame violence.

I got that video game feeling too. Like having a hard time separating reality from games. Obviously knowing the difference but the urge to see what it's like being stronger than that little voice that says "yeah, this is a bad idea"


SS thank you! I am pretty looney though lol

[s_finch]

Both girls were shot with both guns. What does that signify? Isn't that odd?



To me it signifies two shooters who either enjoyed what they were doing (sorry for how sick that sounds) or were so determined to silence the girls that one of them made the final shots "just to make sure". I cannot see one shooter using two guns on two girls especially since neither of the girls ran, it was an ambush style attack by two shooters. I still think the girls saw something or the shooters thought the girls saw something.

EDITED TO ADD: Actually I'm thinking differently now. The more I picture it, I think it was one perp who sprayed them with the semi then used his handgun for the final shots. I"m glad to hear they are dragging the river but if the perp was that armed that means he is either 1) experienced or 2) had already thought out what he would do if someone interupted him or caused him to feel threatened. With those thoughts in mind I doubt he would have dropped the weapons so close to the scene.

Another thought about the cell phone. Some phones are set to beep when a call has been missed and we know the granddaughter missed her granddads phone call. When the grandfather arrived and found the girls he might have located the phone or thought to use it if it due to possible beeping.

[Patience]

Could this be a misprint or a mistake, or do they indeed have a suspect?

http://cbs4.com/topstories/oklahoma.girls.shot.2.744672.html

The Oklahoman newspaper quoted a police official as saying there was a suspect in the case.

[SeriouslySearching]

S Finch~ Good post! I had not thought about the message beep.

[SeriouslySearching]

Could this be a misprint or a mistake, or do they indeed have a suspect?

http://cbs4.com/topstories/oklahoma.girls.shot.2.744672.html

The Oklahoman newspaper quoted a police official as saying there was a suspect in the case.This article was written on the 10th and the Sheriff did say at the time they had a suspect, but the OSBI quickly did a backpedal on that. So it wasn't a mistake from the reporters, but rather a mistake from the Sheriff. Hope that clears it up. :)

[STEADFAST]

Could this be a misprint or a mistake, or do they indeed have a suspect?

http://cbs4.com/topstories/oklahoma.girls.shot.2.744672.html

The Oklahoman newspaper quoted a police official as saying there was a suspect in the case.

That was an early report, and they backed off of it right away.

[SailorMoon]

Finally caught up reading from last night...thank goodness I don't have much work here at work. Am I the only one thinking that they may think the shooter was up in the trees? I'm also thinking that a) they were thought to have witnessed an execution--killers would have to take that body because it would give more clues as to who they were...or b) and this scares me to write it but I will, that Taylor was the real target. I have nothing to back that up at all...just due to where they were.

Who knows though....I hope these cold blooded killer(s) are caught soon.

[s_finch]

Just had a thought. Maybe the car is what the girls saw that they shouldn't have. Maybe the perp(s) had parked the car along the roadside, gone into the woods to do their deed (cook dope, pick up dope, rape, murder, deposit a body, whatever...) and didn't count on two girls walking down the road and being able later to id the car. So the girls walk past where the car is, maybe looking at it curiously, maybe not, and on the walk back the perps are waiting in the bushes, ambush the girls and high tail it out of there. Course you would think if it was a meth lab the car would have been hidden but if it was a dope head in need of a quick fix or a serial rapist/murderer unable to control himself any better (read "in final stages of melt down") then they may have thought they could just leave the car quickly, do the deed, and get away without anyone seeing them or the car.

[SeriouslySearching]

It would be impossible to shoot under the chin upward from a tree. I don't see it, but you can't tell without the trajectory and blood spatter evidence to go by.

[XcomSquaddie]

IMO, the girls were dropped with a semi or fully automatic weapon then possibly finished off with an insurance shot to the head.

Full auto weapons are highly, highly illegal to own. (It can be done, but you need lots of money, permits and licenses.) It is extremely difficult to buy one.

Even illegally, they're tough to get. Not only that, they're usually not worth the effort. Semi-auto's are more accurate and much easier to come by.

[OrdinaryLife]

The grandmother seemed to think they were killed first and then the guns were unloaded into them while laying down. Overkill. It is extremely violent.

The placement of the shots were deliberate and not done hastily, imo. Left arm, right shoulder, legs, under the chin, and in the chest. Skyla was a tiny girl. They had to either be quite close to her or a really good shot from a distance to hit her little legs and arms.


I have to disagree. I think all these shots were done unplanned and quickly. They wanted these angels dead. I think they were shot exactly where they stood and the killers did not care where bullets ended up. As long as both were dead.

[s_finch]

Full auto weapons are highly, highly illegal to own. (It can be done, but you need lots of money, permits and licenses.) It is extremely difficult to buy one.

Even illegally, they're tough to get. Not only that, they're usually not worth the effort. Semi-auto's are more accurate and much easier to come by.

I agree. You wouldn't need a fully automatic weapon to do the bullet spray that was inflicted on these girls, a semi would do it. The head shot was most probably a hand gun.

[SeriouslySearching]

It is possible, S Finch. Maybe they thought the girls saw something on the walk to the bridge then did ambush them on the return trip. Obviously, if that were the case...the girls didn't see anything because they would have used the phone and headed for home immediately instead of going to the bridge.

[SailorMoon]

Good thought. Very good and likely.


Just had a thought. Maybe the car is what the girls saw that they shouldn't have. Maybe the perp(s) had parked the car along the roadside, gone into the woods to do their deed (cook dope, pick up dope, rape, murder, deposit a body, whatever...) and didn't count on two girls walking down the road and being able later to id the car. So the girls walk past where the car is, maybe looking at it curiously, maybe not, and on the walk back the perps are waiting in the bushes, ambush the girls and high tail it out of there. Course you would think if it was a meth lab the car would have been hidden but if it was a dope head in need of a quick fix or a serial rapist/murderer unable to control himself any better (read "in final stages of melt down") then they may have thought they could just leave the car quickly, do the deed, and get away without anyone seeing them or the car.

[XcomSquaddie]

I agree. You wouldn't need a fully automatic weapon to do the bullet spray that was inflicted on these girls, a semi would do it. The head shot was most probably a hand gun.

Not only that, but Full-Auto's are so very rare.

Semi-auto pistols, rifles and shotguns are very, very common in this country. You can go into any gun store or even a K-Mart and walk out with a semi-auto. Semi-auto pistols can be carried concealed with the proper permits.

Full-Autos require expense licenses, ownership paperwork, background checks and the guns themselves are expensive. Big, big bucks. Not only that, but you literally can not carry a FA weapon, unless it is between your house and a gunstore or firing range. They are heavily restricted.

Most police departments put FA weapons in the "shoot-first-ask-later" category.

Coupled with the cost, legalities and rarity, it takes a special class of thug to walk around with a FA weapon.

On the other hand, any child or adult in the US can conceivably get their hands on a SA weapon.

[SeriouslySearching]

Last time I checked, drug dealers and arms runners don't worry about permits or what guns are "common". They care more about outpowering LE and others who they deem as an enemy.

[murdershewrote]

"the grandfather told everyone "They shot the girls"

Not casting any blame on the gf at all, I'm sure he went into immediate shock and people do say things that are odd at times like that...but it does seem a telling statement that, right away, he knew who shot them (whoever "they" is) or he had some sort of idea who it was. Maybe not specific people but a group in general, say druggies for example. It just seems odd rather than saying "the girls have been shot". It would be like him saying "he shot the girls", people would certainly be focusing in on that, so why this is being dismissed so easily, I dont really understand. But I'm sure he has told LE any people he might suspect, he seems to have a good, solid head on his shoulders.

[SailorMoon]

Wow...funerals are today. Why was I thinking they were tomorrow? First one has been held. Any covereage/feed of them? I cannot even imagine the pain their families feel.

[SeriouslySearching]

"the grandfather told everyone "They shot the girls"

Not casting any blame on the gf at all, I'm sure he went into immediate shock and people do say things that are odd at times like that...but it does seem a telling statement that, right away, he knew who shot them (whoever "they" is) or he had some sort of idea who it was. Maybe not specific people but a group in general, say druggies for example. It just seems odd rather than saying "the girls have been shot". It would be like him saying "he shot the girls", people would certainly be focusing in on that, so why this is being dismissed so easily, I dont really understand. But I'm sure he has told LE any people he might suspect, he seems to have a good, solid head on his shoulders.I just don't find it odd as many times as the girls were shot at all. It would be my first reaction, I think. My mind would not instantly think of just one person with that kind of carnage. I don't think the grandfather has any clue really, but he did mention it could be over drugs (IIRC).

[murdershewrote]

I just interpreted "they" to mean he thought he knew who might have done it, not that there were multiple shooter involved.

[SeriouslySearching]

Wow...funerals are today. Why was I thinking they were tomorrow? First one has been held. Any covereage/feed of them? I cannot even imagine the pain their families feel.

HENRYETTA — Several hundred people filled the Dewar First Baptist Church this morning to remember one of the two girls gunned down on a rural Okfuskee County road earlier this week.

The body of Taylor Dawn Paschal-Placker, 13, lay in a pristine white casket draped with a blanket of pink and white carnations as her family and friends passed by. Some stopped and shook their heads in disbelief as the passed the girl's casket.

Several of the girl's family members were sobbing so hard they had to be held up.

~snip~

Outside, media cameras gathered on a grassy patch. A gang of motorcyclists from Bikers Against Child Abuse stood in front of the cameras and held up their jackets in an attempt to block the cameras.

http://www.newsok.com/article/3257029/ (Bolded by me)

I had a feeling BACA would be there to prevent any interruptions. Good people!!

[OrdinaryLife]

Last time I checked, drug dealers and arms runners don't worry about permits or what guns are "common". They care more about outpowering LE and others who they deem as an enemy.


Drug dealers/drug runners do not make it a mission to murder two kids. They have more important things to concern themselves with. Like LE.

I truly believe the shooter/shooters chose this at random and for the thrill. I also feel that the shooter/shooters are somewhat local to the area. It could have been anyone at that time and place who would have been killed. These two angels were in the wrong place at the wrong time. IMVHO...

[SeriouslySearching]

Investigators widen search for killers of girls near Weleetka

OKEMAH — Officials here appear to have widened their search for suspects in the brutal killings of two girls, ages 11 and 13.

~snip~

Rosser did say his investigation is taking officials outside this part of east-central Oklahoma, to places such as Oklahoma City, Tulsa and Seminole. Tips have come in from neighboring states, he said.

Twelve people were working on the investigation in nearby Okemah this morning. At least 10 more officers have been spread out in the other locations, he said.

Rosser said the fact that the girls were shot in such a remote place leads him to believe any suspects would come from this area of east central Oklahoma, about 75 miles east of Oklahoma City. He also said the killer or killers may have ties to this part of the state.

~snip~

Rosser spoke to the media from a command center in the Okfuskee County Courthouse. Black-and-white photocopies of evidence — a boot print in the dirt road, for instance — were taped to the wall. Most of the evidence was covered from public viewing. Rosser had drawn a map of the country road, and the bridge near where the girls were shot, on a marker board in the fourth-floor office. Investigators pecked on laptops.

http://www.newsok.com/article/3256954/

[XcomSquaddie]

Last time I checked, drug dealers and arms runners don't worry about permits or what guns are "common". They care more about outpowering LE and others who they deem as an enemy.

When was the last time you heard about a drug bust (or any crime) when fully automatic weapons were involved?

They don't need a fully automatic assault rifle to outgun the police. Semi-auto weapons do that just fine.

[s_finch]

Drug dealers/drug runners do not make it a mission to murder two kids. They have more important things to concern themselves with. Like LE.

I truly believe the shooter/shooters chose this at random and for the thrill. I also feel that the shooter/shooters are somewhat local to the area. It could have been anyone at that time and place who would have been killed. These two angels were in the wrong place at the wrong time. IMVHO...

I agree it's not their "mission" to murder girls, but they do murder potential witnesses which is what some of think these girls were. I agree that the girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The whole thing has reminded me of the 8 remote graves found in Florida at a murderers dumping ground. What would he have done if someone had walked by who could later id him or the car?

[Rag Doll 02]

I wish I knew what to think in this case. I pray to God they solve it. Those poor little girls and their families !!

[SeriouslySearching]

If what they have uncovered so far through the witness and evidence is causing them to widen the search to OKC, Tulsa, and Seminole. It goes back to what I said in the beginning about this being gang/drug related and this being a possible drop point.

[OrdinaryLife]

I agree it's not their "mission" to murder girls, but they do murder potential witnesses which is what some of think these girls were. I agree that the girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The whole thing has reminded me of the 8 remote graves found in Florida at a murderers dumping ground. What would he have done if someone had walked by who could later id him or the car?

I honestly do not see this as drug related as in dealing or "cooking". I truly cannot help but think this was a thrill killing.

If there was such a reputation for any kind of drugs/dealers in that specific area, I do not think *any* family member would have allowed their children to walk on that road. It has been said one of the young angels would walk this road almost daily. It just does not add up...

[Rag Doll 02]

I suppose that its possible that it is some disturbed person getting their kicks with a random killing, but I am thinking more along the same lines as you SS.

I think its more likely, the way these two girls were just executed in a frenzy, that they came upon something they saw or someone thought they saw. I think that to be killed in overkill like that, someone wanted to make sure that these girls were definately dead and not talking.

[SeriouslySearching]

When was the last time you heard about a drug bust (or any crime) when fully automatic weapons were involved?

They don't need a fully automatic assault rifle to outgun the police. Semi-auto weapons do that just fine.

Mean streets: AK-47-type guns are turning up in US more often, leaving a trail of blood

Figures from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, obtained by The Associated Press through public records requests, show a marked increase in the number of AK-type weapons traced and entered into the agency's computer database because they had been seized or connected to a crime.

The numbers corroborate what police chiefs around the country have been saying: AKs and other so-called assault weapons are terrorizing their communities and endangering their officers.

The numbers are reflected in some of the most horrifying violence of the past year, including a deadly shooting rampage at a department store in Omaha, Nebraska.

They're reflected in the growing number of police forces equipping their officers with higher-powered guns to match the bad guys' firepower.

http://www.newser.com/article/d8vpcvl84.html

[SeriouslySearching]

I honestly do not see this as drug related as in dealing or "cooking". I truly cannot help but think this was a thrill killing.

If there was such a reputation for any kind of drugs/dealers in that specific area, I do not think *any* family member would have allowed their children to walk on that road. It has been said one of the young angels would walk this road almost daily. It just does not add up...It is Oklahoma and they are a bit naive about safety in the rural areas to this day. I know of a woman's church group from a small town that walk several miles on an isolated stretch of road for exercise. Kids are allowed to roam freely in the countryside and people don't think violent crime relates to them. It is always a "city problem" and "never going to happen to us, it is only what we see on the news" type of thinking. It adds up perfectly knowing the mind set.

A lot of the "drug dealers" were the same kids who used to hang out with their own kids, mow their lawns, or play sports...so they don't really have a healthy fear of them as they would if strangers. Make sense?

[SeriouslySearching]

Drug dealers/drug runners do not make it a mission to murder two kids. They have more important things to concern themselves with. Like LE.

I truly believe the shooter/shooters chose this at random and for the thrill. I also feel that the shooter/shooters are somewhat local to the area. It could have been anyone at that time and place who would have been killed. These two angels were in the wrong place at the wrong time. IMVHO...I can pull out article after article here in Tulsa where children were targeted or sitting in a home and killed by drug dealing gang bangers. They do not care. It is getting their message across that counts and silencing those who might be tempted to testify against them for other crimes. It goes on here constantly. I just don't post them because there are too many.

If you don't live in an area where gang warfare is prevalent, you wouldn't get the full impact of how they live and what they do. Trust me, they would kill two little girls to silence them and not think twice about doing it.

[SuziQ]

Mean streets: AK-47-type guns are turning up in US more often, leaving a trail of blood

http://www.newser.com/article/d8vpcvl84.html

That article scares the h*ll out of me.

[kahskye]

Mean streets: AK-47-type guns are turning up in US more often, leaving a trail of blood

http://www.newser.com/article/d8vpcvl84.html

That's for that link, SS. That was a very interesting and informative read.

It is Oklahoma and they are a bit naive about safety in the rural areas to this day. I know of a woman's church group from a small town that walk several miles on an isolated stretch of road for exercise. Kids are allowed to roam freely in the countryside and people don't think violent crime relates to them. It is always a "city problem" and "never going to happen to us, it is only what we see on the news" type of thinking. It adds up perfectly knowing the mind set.

I agree about rural verses city. I grew up in the city, and we also had a cottage in the rural area. It was not unusual for us kids to explore, not only our 14 acres, but also the acres surrounding ours. One time we had a shotgun pointed at us for tresspassing. One reason the girls had cell phones was to call if there was anything suspicious. I sincerely doubt anyone ever in a million years expected this outcome. This case really gets to me.

[Mouse]

I just interpreted "they" to mean he thought he knew who might have done it, not that there were multiple shooter involved.

I took his statement as just a generic "they." Like when you hear someone say, "They say it might rain," or, "Well, you know what they say...life's hard," or whatever.

[kahskye]

I can pull out article after article here in Tulsa where children were targeted or sitting in a home and killed by drug dealing gang bangers. They do not care. It is getting their message across that counts and silencing those who might be tempted to testify against them for other crimes. It goes on here constantly. I just don't post them because there are too many.

If you don't live in an area where gang warfare is prevalent, you wouldn't get the full impact of how they live and what they do. Trust me, they would kill two little girls to silence them and not think twice about doing it.

I'm guessing this is what happened. I'm not sure how outspoken these two were, but they may have threatened to tell.

[SeriouslySearching]

I took his statement as just a generic "they." Like when you hear someone say, "They say it might rain," or, "Well, you know what they say...life's hard," or whatever.Welcome to WS, Mouse! Yes...could very well be. I don't think it means anything to the case.

[josephine]

I think when they make an arrest we are all going to be shocked at the motive. .
Hi everyone -- I'm a new poster here, though I've been reading the boards for a very long time, and hope you don't mind me jumping into the fray.

What Garnan said strikes me as right-on. Here's a wager that when we find out motive, we'll see that it was an attempt to cover up an accident: something involving illegal hunting, perhaps, with unregistered firearms.

Several articles have mentioned that the bridge area was popular with hunters, which suggests that that kind of activity was at very least not unheard-of. The perps could be a bunch of locals (or close enough) riding around in a truck, maybe with a couple of the guys in the back. Almost surely, they've been drinking, maybe even for most of the day (the girls were killed around 5:30 pm). It's possible that they're driving around with the intent to hunt, but my guess would be that the incident is more spontaneous. They're driving along, someone drunkenly sees what they think is a deer up ahead, and the gun comes out.

Now, I know this might sound absolutely ridiculous at first, but this kind of thing happens all the time (which, of course, is why those hunting regulations exist in the first place). And what happens when you combine drunken idiots with firearms? Disaster.

From the moment the mistake is made, things could have gone many, many different ways, but however it went, it happened very, very quickly. Maybe they made the u-turn when they spotted their "prey" and swung around to get the shot; maybe a couple of guys in the back of the truck shot at the same time. In any case, it's probable that they realized their mistake almost instantly, and to save their own a**es, kept firing. Why? Not only were they driving drunk, hunting illegally, and in possession of illegal firearms. They'd accidentally shot a CHILD (or two children; maybe one was shot first and they killed the other to eliminate the witness). I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the perps is already on probation, or has been in trouble with the law before, which would up the panic factor even more.

I don't know how this works out with the questions about trajectory -- obviously that's super-crucial -- but this might explain in part how the situation bears the earmarks of a thrill kill *and* an "insurance" murder: because it was both. And that what lies between these two unspeakable crimes is a tragic, senseless, horrific accident.

Just some thoughts...

[OrdinaryLife]

I can pull out article after article here in Tulsa where children were targeted or sitting in a home and killed by drug dealing gang bangers. They do not care. It is getting their message across that counts and silencing those who might be tempted to testify against them for other crimes. It goes on here constantly. I just don't post them because there are too many.

If you don't live in an area where gang warfare is prevalent, you wouldn't get the full impact of how they live and what they do. Trust me, they would kill two little girls to silence them and not think twice about doing it.

If you lived in the area/States I am from, you would completely understand I get the impact. In fact, I have no doubt this part of the country has seen far worse than Tulsa.

I humbly disagree with you as far as gang/drug related. I honestly believe the outcome will shock that county. As long as there is justice for these 2 angels, well, I'll keep hoping for resolving these murders and both families can have some heart peace.

[SuziQ]

Jessica Brown with OSBI discusses the new witness:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/06/13/intv.ok.murder.brown.cnn

Possible lead in girls' murder 3:38
Investigators tell CNN they may have a new witness in the murder of two Oklahoma girls.

[CarpeDiem]

I'm not sure how outspoken these two were, but they may have threatened to tell.

The only way three people keep a secret is if two of them are dead.

If it was someone the girls didn't know, they wouldn't be dead, there would be no reason to kill them like that if the chance of the girls IDing them was slim, which would have been the case if it were a stranger(s). Strangers aren't going to kill two little girls for some drug deal in the woods. IMO, it's something different that made them targets and the perp is someone close/known to them.

[SuziQ]

Josephine, that's a great first post!

[harleysnana]

"the grandfather told everyone "They shot the girls"

Not casting any blame on the gf at all, I'm sure he went into immediate shock and people do say things that are odd at times like that...but it does seem a telling statement that, right away, he knew who shot them (whoever "they" is) or he had some sort of idea who it was. Maybe not specific people but a group in general, say druggies for example. It just seems odd rather than saying "the girls have been shot". It would be like him saying "he shot the girls", people would certainly be focusing in on that, so why this is being dismissed so easily, I dont really understand. But I'm sure he has told LE any people he might suspect, he seems to have a good, solid head on his shoulders.

This got me thinking....
is it possible that the grandfather was the witness?
And the reason they say the witness has just come forward in the last 24 hours is because if they said he came forward right after the killers would know it was him?

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Josephine! Anything is possible at this point.

What you are talking about is called "poaching" which is highly illegal in this state. However, people do it...but usually not in broad daylight with houses around and possibly other vehicles. The boys in this state for some reason have a very small incidence of accidents with firearms and alcohol. I guess the training and it being as normal handling both as it is for others to carry a cell phone and drink. It is a rare occurrance for killings as you have described. Not saying it can't happen tho.

[SuziQ]

The only way three people keep a secret is if two of them are dead.

If it was someone the girls didn't know, they wouldn't be dead, there would be no reason to kill them like that if the chance of the girls IDing them was slim, which would have been the case if it were a stranger(s). Strangers aren't going to kill two little girls for some drug deal in the woods. IMO, it's something different that made them targets and the perp is someone close/known to them.

Strangers meeting up for a drug deal with someone the girls recognized comes to mind. Most likely Taylor since she lived close by.

[josephine]

Oh, I forgot one thing: my gut tells me that there was no witness. The cops are saying that there was because they believe the perps to be locals, and want to turn up the heat so that one of them spills something (like to a girlfriend or his mom). If the crime occurred as the result of an "accident," the guys responsible would be extremely anxious about it, and more likely to confess. I'll bet that when the break comes, it comes from a woman.

[josephine]

Thanks, SuziQ and SeriouslySearching! I'm really glad to be on board.

[SeriouslySearching]

The only way three people keep a secret is if two of them are dead.

If it was someone the girls didn't know, they wouldn't be dead, there would be no reason to kill them like that if the chance of the girls IDing them was slim, which would have been the case if it were a stranger(s). Strangers aren't going to kill two little girls for some drug deal in the woods. IMO, it's something different that made them targets and the perp is someone close/known to them.Normally, this is true. In gang life, it is not. Snitches are usually dead before they can talk and are guaranteed dead (along with their family members) if they do.

[Garnan]

This got me thinking....
is it possible that the grandfather was the witness?
And the reason they say the witness has just come forward in the last 24 hours is because if they said he came forward right after the killers would know it was him?

I didn't think about that, but I agree that it's entirely possible. It's also possible that one of the little creeps confessed to somebody and that "somebody" has come forward. They are now doing research on the creep and trying to place him at the scene, maybe.... Would they arrest someone right away if they had even an inkling to connect them to this crime, or would they try to corroborate (sp? sorry) the story before tipping their hand? I would think they'd want to arrest as soon as possible. Clearly these people are a huge threat. If you can kill 2 little girls, nothing would be off limits.

[SuziQ]

Oh, I forgot one thing: my gut tells me that there was no witness. The cops are saying that there was because they believe the perps to be locals, and want to turn up the heat so that one of them spills something (like to a girlfriend or his mom). If the crime occurred as the result of an "accident," the guys responsible would be extremely anxious about it, and more likely to confess. I'll bet that when the break comes, it comes from a woman.

Let me add this to your thought. Jessica Brown stated at the video I linked above that they have no profile. They believe though, they are looking for local young people driving in the area. She ends the interview stating that the motive could be anything from witnessing a crime to a random thrill kill. I am back to wanting to know what local residents have not been tracked down to interview and suddenly disappeared after the murders.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/06/13/intv.ok.murder.brown.cnn

[STEADFAST]

Several articles have mentioned that the bridge area was popular with hunters, which suggests that that kind of activity was at very least not unheard-of. The perps could be a bunch of locals (or close enough) riding around in a truck, maybe with a couple of the guys in the back. Almost surely, they've been drinking, maybe even for most of the day (the girls were killed around 5:30 pm). It's possible that they're driving around with the intent to hunt, but my guess would be that the incident is more spontaneous. They're driving along, someone drunkenly sees what they think is a deer up ahead, and the gun comes out.

Now, I know this might sound absolutely ridiculous at first, but this kind of thing happens all the time (which, of course, is why those hunting regulations exist in the first place). And what happens when you combine drunken idiots with firearms? Disaster.



Good possibility, josephine -- there was an early report of a truck of young men driving around in the area around the time of the murders.

[SeriouslySearching]

I believe there is a witness. I have never seen OSBI risk their credibility with the public by making up something like that for a pressure tactic. They just don't work that way.

I don't think it is the grandfather either. Some legitimate reason kept the person from coming forward. They say they have checked to know he is reliable plus the info he has given is corroberated.

[christine2448]

Just a quick hello and welcome to ALL the newbies! Welcome to WS...thanks for joining and sharing your ideas/theories, etc. :blowkiss:

[Garnan]

Good possibility, josephine -- there was an early report of a truck of young men driving around in the area around the time of the murders.

They found those guys, and they've cleared them.

[OrdinaryLife]

I think it's important to remember the timing. All this occured between 5 and 5:30 pm.

If there were any drug dealing happening it would not happen at the very risk of being found out. Early morning hours or late/dark of night. Not at the hour when the risk would be high of being discovered.

[SeriouslySearching]

Jessica Brown (OSBI) mentioned in that interview with CNN they have interviewed about 75-100 people in the community now. It sounds like they are systematically ruling in or out anyone fitting the young (male) description to me. (She didn't say male...but I think it was a given.)

[OrdinaryLife]

At one point last night during Brown's interview, she did mention the possibilty of two guys who are most likely joined at the hip. I'm kinda agreeing with her.

[s_finch]

Welcome to WS, Josephine! Anything is possible at this point.

What you are talking about is called "poaching" which is highly illegal in this state. However, people do it...but usually not in broad daylight with houses around and possibly other vehicles. The boys in this state for some reason have a very small incidence of accidents with firearms and alcohol. I guess the training and it being as normal handling both as it is for others to carry a cell phone and drink. It is a rare occurrance for killings as you have described. Not saying it can't happen tho.

Poaching is common here (SC) and I've never heard of a poacher ambushing a witness. Nor do people "normally" hunt/poach with semi-automatic weaspons, nor do people usually poach by riding around shooting out the back of a truck. Poachers here don't want to ruin the hides because they sell them. Poaching animals isn't at all like thrill killing.

[SeriouslySearching]

That was Pat Brown, the criminal profiler, not Jessica Brown, the spokeperson for the OSBI.

[STEADFAST]

They found those guys, and they've cleared them.

I thought it was the ATV riders that they found and cleared.

[SeriouslySearching]

Poaching in common here (SC) and I've never heard of a poacher ambushing a witness. Nor do people "normally" hunt/poach with semi-automatic weaspons, not do people usually poach by riding around shooting out the back of a truck. Poachers here don't want to ruin the hides because they sell them. Poaching animals isn't at all like thrill killing.Right. Except in Oklahoma, I have heard of people shooting from the back of a truck at night with spotlights. No, it isn't thrill killing as they do it for the meat and the hides. They don't just shoot and leave them.

[s_finch]

I think it's important to remember the timing. All this occured between 5 and 5:30 pm.

If there were any drug dealing happening it would not happen at the very risk of being found out. Early morning hours or late/dark of night. Not at the hour when the risk would be high of being discovered.

I respectfully disagree. I live in a rural community and witnessed a drug deal at a local gas station at 3:30 in the afternoon. My daughter was inside buying candy and I'm seeing a drug deal go down. Needless to say I was glad to get her in the car and get the heck out of there and yes I called in the license plate to the Sheriff's Office. The guy selling the drugs even stopped another guy at the gas station who was pumping gas and offered him some before driving off.

[OrdinaryLife]

That was Pat Brown, the criminal profiler, not Jessica Brown, the spokeperson for the OSBI.

Yeah, I know. Sorry I didn't use a first name. Didn't mean to confuse you.

[SeriouslySearching]

Yeah, I know. Sorry I didn't use a first name. Didn't mean to confuse you.Didn't confuse me, just didn't want to confuse others here. :)

I am not agreeing with half the stuff that came from Pat Brown last night personally.

[OrdinaryLife]

I respectfully disagree. I live in a rural community and witnessed a drug deal at a local gas station at 3:30 in the afternoon. My daughter was inside buying candy and I'm seeing a drug deal go down. Needless to say I was glad to get her in the car and get the heck out of there and yes I called in the license plate to the Sheriff's Office. The guy selling the drugs even stopped another guy at the gas station who was pumping gas and offered him some before driving off.

I'm sorry. I should have defined drug dealing better. I'm not talking parking lots, behind school grounds, or some town park for some ounces of pot, crack, or whatever. They do not kill people for that kind of "witness" stuff.

I was talking about major big time drug dealing where they would kill people. Major monies, major drugs.

My apologies if it came out confusing.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think it's important to remember the timing. All this occured between 5 and 5:30 pm.

If there were any drug dealing happening it would not happen at the very risk of being found out. Early morning hours or late/dark of night. Not at the hour when the risk would be high of being discovered.Drug deals take place anytime and anywhere. A couple of months ago here, they busted a liquor store employee who was taking phone orders and walking it out to their car for curb service! LE called and asked for a certain drug he didn't have...so he gave them the time it would arrive...they busted the connection and the dealer. LOL

Ah, I see what you mean now. :)

[OrdinaryLife]

Didn't confuse me, just didn't want to confuse others here. :)

I am not agreeing with half the stuff that came from Pat Brown last night personally.

Pat Brown is a Criminal Profiler. I do not think she is just some joe shmoe. But, that's just my opinion....

[Reannan]

The motive of having witnessed a drug deal doesn't feel right to me. Why wouldn't they drug dealers not have just shot them dead and hightailed it out of there? The overkill aspect of this crime is important IMHO. I just don't see drug dealers needing to use that much of their ammunition on these two little girls. I still think thrill kill or targeted killing by someone close to one of the girls. I don't think the grandfather is involved, but what do we know about other family? From my understanding of the situation, the girls were heading back towards their house; walking away from the bridge. They believe the vehicle was also heading towards the girls house, in other words the vehicle approached from behind them. I can see a scenario where the vehicle stops behind them, and one or more people get out of it. The girls could have just stood there, waiting to see what the person wanted - especially if the person was known to the girls. It wouldn't take but a second to quickly pull a weapon and shoot them both rapidly enough for them to fall to the ground. A few more quick shots, retrieve the second wepon, fire it into both girls, get back in the vehicle, do a U-turn and go back towards the bridge. I can easily see this having been one person. I can also easily see this being two young guys tweeking on meth who were just driving around, and saw the girls, and you have an instant thrill kill. Either way, it is incredibly sad and breaks my heart. I also don't think it was full automatic weapons. Do you have any idea what the ammunition would cost for those these days?? You can blow through a LOT of ammunition in a matter of seconds with full auto weapons. Even drugs dealers are having to pay to much for their gas these days to waste ammunition.

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, but when she gets on those talking head shows...she raps off things where often she has no real knowledge of the particular case and uses a hypothesis placing them in one basket.

[SeriouslySearching]

We have found out a few things about Taylor's family and there are problems. One aunt (?) is in jail and there have been other things brought out. I don't think we ever found out the story of why she is with the grandparents and there has been no mention of her biological parents. I would expect the parents to have come to the funeral today if they are not in jail tho and maybe we will hear more about them later.

[OrdinaryLife]

Yes, but when she gets on those talking head shows...she raps off things where often she has no real knowledge of the particular case and uses a hypothesis placing them in one basket.

That's what makes her a "profiler". She doesn't need deep knowledge, but the very basics of the case that she is allowed. Many a profiler work this way. It makes it unbiased. Besides, we do not know if she could know more than we think.....

[SeriouslySearching]

I have followed her a long time and have seen her way off on a few cases. Granted, she is a "profiler", but she isn't always a great one. :)

[Garnan]

I thought it was the ATV riders that they found and cleared.

They talk about the pick-up truck boys in this article.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_11_A1_hOSBIs543824

[OrdinaryLife]

There will not be any family involvement on any internal/external level. I am soooo positive of that.

Such a tragedy for all family members on both sides... :(

[SeriouslySearching]

Presser is on right now:
http://www.koco.com/video/16559486/index.html

[harleysnana]

I respectfully disagree. I live in a rural community and witnessed a drug deal at a local gas station at 3:30 in the afternoon. My daughter was inside buying candy and I'm seeing a drug deal go down. Needless to say I was glad to get her in the car and get the heck out of there and yes I called in the license plate to the Sheriff's Office. The guy selling the drugs even stopped another guy at the gas station who was pumping gas and offered him some before driving off.

Usually if you leave drug dealers alone.... they leave you alone.
The reason I say this is because of the laws.
It is very hard to get someone arrested on drug possession and
drug use.

I'm thinking it's not going to be drug dealers who did this.

If the girls saw someone doing drugs now days because of the way the laws are unless a cop himself saw the person take the drugs or find the drug on the person...they can't do much.

And if the girls saw a drug deal I'm sure by the time they called or went
for help the drug dealers would be gone or have the evidence gone.

Even if it was drug related… the charge for drugs would not be even close to the charge
for 2 murders!

IMO we need to think of what crime these girls witnessed, or knew about that would make the suspects want to commit murder to cover up.

I can only think of one….murder.
Either that or it was a trill kill.

[SeriouslySearching]

New developments: People have come forward who heard the gunshots. Also have a man who drove by and saw a man standing outside his pickup truck. Indian male, 35 yrs, near 6 ft, pony tail, white Ford or Chev with OK tag (no year given). He might have seen something and want help to find him. Will have a sketch for the public. They showed the sketch, but I didn't get a shot of it.

[SeriouslySearching]

Stopped almost blocking the road and he was outside the truck, but they could not see what he was doing.

[STEADFAST]

They talk about the pick-up truck boys in this article.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_11_A1_hOSBIs543824

Thanks! I was looking for that article. Hmmm . . . well, I guess I'll let those particular pick-up riders off the hook, provisionally.

I'm thinking the U-turn may have happened as a vehicle passed the girls and the occupants said, "Them? I dare you." "Yeah, them." And they turned around, got out and shot the girls.
I wonder if there's a school-shooting type motive.

[josephine]

Poaching is common here (SC) and I've never heard of a poacher ambushing a witness. Nor do people "normally" hunt/poach with semi-automatic weaspons, nor do people usually poach by riding around shooting out the back of a truck. Poachers here don't want to ruin the hides because they sell them. Poaching animals isn't at all like thrill killing.

My sense is that it might not exactly be a "poaching" scenario. That would imply that the perps had their wits about them, and were consciously "hunting." It's not that hard to imagine a couple of jerks shooting off their guns just for the hell of it, and something went dreadfully wrong. Just a possibility...

[c2cd208]

I dont think they were shot for what they seen, I feel like some people (men or boys, more likely young boys) were high on something, or drunk or both and out shooting. Rual men and boys do it all the time. And that a bullet hit one of the girls and the perps were not in any condition to have to deal with police, so instead of calling in a 911 they freaked out being parinoid and made sure both of the girls were dead.

A high power rifle can shoot a good distance and if a person(s) were under the influence of some kind, they could have mistaken the girls for wild game, shot from a distance then come closer and freaked out when they seen it was not game, but little girls.

I would say it was two or more young men between 17 and 22 years of age. And I dont think it will be anyone who "knows" the girls. When I say "knows" I mean like close family friends. In a small community everyone knows everyone, but not exactly close to everyone if you know what I am trying to say.

[Garnan]

yw Steadfast. I think that's a very informative article.

[SeriouslySearching]

Uhm...did you guys not read above?! They have a POI!

[STEADFAST]

Uhm...did you guys not read above?! They have a POI!

You posted that while I was writing my response. And while I don't care for the rude "Uhm," I appreciate the exciting info!

[SeriouslySearching]

Sorry, but I thought you guys missed it! I didn't think I was being rude to call your attention to it. It is a HUGE lead and we have a sketch to go with it. This is the first real break in the case.

[EnvoyDriver61]

white Ford or Chev with OK tag

Explains why they were using a white pickup truck in the distance in yesterday's raw video of the agents measuring stuff on the road.

The white pickup was fairly obvious even from 1/4 mile away.

[murdershewrote]

the theory that a hunter could have accidentally shot them was brought up on NG show, but was quickly dismissed. But I think maybe that's why the aerials were done, to see if there were a hunter's clearing (or whatever they are called, don't know anything about hunting) in those woods

[EnvoyDriver61]

And, if they were using a white pickup intentionally, it was also facing north, going away from Taylor's house. Again, that's subjective just based on what was shown on the video.

[philamena]

At todays presser, IIRC, the spokesman said he'd rather not discuss that.

SuziQ,
thanks.:)

[EnvoyDriver61]

So, the scenario could be an older Indian male is stopped somewhere further up the road. The girls may have actually seen him, felt uneasy and turned back. He doesn't want to be recognized there or is doing something he could get in trouble for and goes after the girls.

It kind of explains why they are saying shooter or shooters in some of the press releases. They may have witness of only seeing this one individual, but the number of shots indicates more than one shooter.

[SeriouslySearching]

Investigators searching for person of interest

OKEMAH — Officials say they are now searching for a man driving a white Ford or Chevy pickup with a black ponytail who may have information into the homicide deaths of two Weleetka girls.
"We just to question this man," she said during a press conference this afternoon in Okemah. "Maybe he saw someone in the area. We don't know if this man is local, we presume that, but we don't know. We have several witnesses who saw the man and we have several witnesses who heard gunshots. Witnesses say he acted suspiciously, but we don't know what he was doing there."

http://www.newsok.com/article/3256954/ No sketch yet.

[SuziQ]

Uhm...did you guys not read above?! They have a POI!

Nice! Sorry, just sat down here. Staining my deck today.

[RiverRat]

New developments: People have come forward who heard the gunshots. Also have a man who drove by and saw a man standing outside his pickup truck. Indian male, 35 yrs, near 6 ft, pony tail, white Ford or Chev with OK tag (no year given). He might have seen something and want help to find him. Will have a sketch for the public. They showed the sketch, but I didn't get a shot of it.

Fantastic - I hope and pray! Maybe we should go back over the registered SO's from the first thread to see if there is a match to that description?

[oceanblueeyes]

Explains why they were using a white pickup truck in the distance in yesterday's raw video of the agents measuring stuff on the road.

The white pickup was fairly obvious even from 1/4 mile away.

Who in the world could this man be? Just another scumbag in the area that destroyed innocent life because they were young, alone and vulnerable there? They can say POI.......they always do but imo he IS the one they are searching for........

I know the first thing LE did was show all the family members this composite drawing and evidently they could not identify him as anyone they knew.

I hope he is spotted before sundown and they can bring him in.

Why would he be stopped in the middle of the road and be out of his pickup truck? I think he had already spotted the girls and lay in wait. No wonder these little girls got over in the ditch......seeing this strange guy had to make them uneasy.

imoo

[STEADFAST]

Sorry, but I thought you guys missed it! I didn't think I was being rude to call your attention to it. It is a HUGE lead and we have a sketch to go with it. This is the first real break in the case.

No problem. I couldn't get the video to work. Do you know if there's a print link yet?

Edited to add: LOL! I missed that link post, too! Thanks for the link, SS.

[SeriouslySearching]

Investigators released a sketch of a possible witness Friday in the slaying of best friends shot to death along a country road as their families laid them to rest.

Police are seeking an American Indian male, about 6-foot and 35 years of age, who was seen in the area where Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, and Skyla Whitaker, 11, were killed Sunday along a dirt road in Weleetka, Okla.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366464,00.html no sketch yet.

[anneinchicago]

Okay, don't snap at me for this, but the sighting of an Indian (I am assuming continent not Native American?) got me thinking.

What is the racial make-up of Weleetka and the surrounding area? Because a strange black or otherwise non-white male in an otherwise mostly white area might have been sufficiently unusual to have been what attracted the girls' attention.

I still think, knowing her love for animals, that Taylor might have heard something she thought was an animal and investigated. But I realize also that that's just me.

[SeriouslySearching]

No problem. I couldn't get the video to work. Do you know if there's a print link yet?

Edited to add: LOL! I missed that link post, too! Thanks for the link, SS.Still checking back every few minutes. No video or link yet. I am kicking myself for not getting that shot while they were holding up the sketch.

[OrdinaryLife]

Presser is on right now:
http://www.koco.com/video/16559486/index.html

SS, video wouldn't load. Have any other links?

[EnvoyDriver61]

the school district is about half and half American Indian and Caucasian. Very little Asian American, Hispanic, or African American.

Taylor, growing up in Oklahoma, would have known that half of Oklahoma is American Indian

[philamena]

Both girls were shot with both guns. What does that signify? Isn't that odd?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_12_WELEE73577
Imo, that signifies overkill for lack of a better word.
Whoever shot the girls, wanted them more than dead, one shot could have caused death. The shooters wanted the girls bodies riddled with bullets but why?

[oceanblueeyes]

Okay, don't snap at me for this, but the sighting of an Indian (I am assuming continent not Native American?) got me thinking.

What is the racial make-up of Weleetka and the surrounding area? Because a strange black or otherwise non-white male in an otherwise mostly white area might have been sufficiently unusual to have been what attracted the girls' attention.

I still think, knowing her love for animals, that Taylor might have heard something she thought was an animal and investigated. But I realize also that that's just me.


I think they are saying that he is an American Indian and it is the same as Native American.

imoo

[SuziQ]

The live video link doesn't work because the presser is over. There should be another permanent link shortly.

[rccook555]

Skyla Jade Whitaker a resident of Rural Henryetta (Salem) passed this life on June 8, 2008 at the age of 11. Born April 5, 1997 in Joplin, Missouri to William and Rose (Farrow) Whitaker. Skyla attended Graham School. She is preceded in death by a Grandmother “Sam” Getman
Survived by her parents; William and Rose Whitaker of the home
3 Sisters: Rosita Gordon of Tulsa,Ok
Christina Whitaker of Popular Bluff, Missouri
Jayme Whitaker of the home.
Brother: Edward Gordon of Columbus, Kansas
Maternal Grandparents: Jim and Claudia Farrow of rural Graham,OK
Paternal Grandparents: Bill and Sharron Whitaker of Baxter Springs, KS
Linda Pritchard of Henryettta
“Granny”- Hester Gregg of Wagnor
“Grandpa”- Harold Getman of Baxter Springs, KS
Great Grandmother- Mary Pritchard of Miller, Missouri Services will be 2:00pm, Friday, June 13, 2008 at the Henryetta First Baptist Church with Rev. Jim Paslay, officiating. Services are under the direction of the Rogers Funeral Home.

http://www.eboards4all.com/728165/messages/1247.html

Video Tribute by the Rogers Funeral Home at http://videos.lifetributes.com/20515
ETA: Just watched the tribute and you might want to have some tissues handy.

[SeriouslySearching]

That was only for the live press conference. The site is www.koco.com, but they don't have the video up yet.

[SeriouslySearching]

Sorry, in Oklahoma we aren't always "politically correct" when talking about Native Americans. Most of my friends are Indian and proud to be called such.

After seeing the sketch, his features look more Native American than white and the long, black hair is normal for a lot of men. He was wearing a ballcap.

[philamena]

Stopped almost blocking the road and he was outside the truck, but they could not see what he was doing.
Hummm, that sounds suspicious in my book.
With the description, LE should be able to find him. I hope.

[oceanblueeyes]

Imo, that signifies overkill for lack of a better word.
Whoever shot the girls, wanted them more than dead, one shot could have caused death. The shooters wanted the girls bodies riddled with bullets but why?


From what Skyla's grandmother said I am not sure it is an overkill but a joy killing. Some of the wounds would not have been life threatening. I think he is a monster and brought them down and rendered them helpless with wounds to their legs and arms then he finished them off with the chest and head shots.

This man could be a serial killer imo just like Duncan cruising the back roads looking for victims.

So terrifying.

imoo

[STEADFAST]

Okay, don't snap at me for this, but the sighting of an Indian (I am assuming continent not Native American?) got me thinking.

What is the racial make-up of Weleetka and the surrounding area? Because a strange black or otherwise non-white male in an otherwise mostly white area might have been sufficiently unusual to have been what attracted the girls' attention.

I still think, knowing her love for animals, that Taylor might have heard something she thought was an animal and investigated. But I realize also that that's just me.

39% of the students in the district are Native American.
Taylor's family has Native American roots on both sides.
I don't think a Native American would be considered suspicious by anyone -- there must have been something else suspicious about the guy. (Besides being seen at a murder site near the time of the murder.)

[SuziQ]

The POI sketch is on the front page at the below link, story number 1. But it's not within the story if you click on it.

http://www.koco.com/index.html

[SeriouslySearching]

OMG! OT: Tim Russert has died suddenly. :(

[SeriouslySearching]

The POI sketch is on the front page at the below link, story number 1. But it's not within the story if you click on it.

http://www.koco.com/index.htmlThanks!!

[oceanblueeyes]

OMG! OT: Tim Russert has died suddenly. :(


OMG! How terrrible. From what? A heart attack?

[philamena]

The only way three people keep a secret is if two of them are dead.

If it was someone the girls didn't know, they wouldn't be dead, there would be no reason to kill them like that if the chance of the girls IDing them was slim, which would have been the case if it were a stranger(s). Strangers aren't going to kill two little girls for some drug deal in the woods. IMO, it's something different that made them targets and the perp is someone close/known to them.
CarpeDiem,
Good post. I also think whoever killed them knew them.
If it was a random shooting, I think the shooter would have taken one or two shots and that's it.

[nanandjim]

OMG! OT: Tim Russert has died suddenly. :(
WHAT??!! :eek:

[Taximom]

Is King County near where these girls were killed?

[SuziQ]

Geeze, he was only 58.

I'm thinking our witness that was revealed yesterday is responsible for the description that OSBI didn't want to discuss yesterday.

[SuziQ]

OMG! How terrrible. From what? A heart attack?

Heart attack Cnn is reporting.

[Garnan]

Okay, don't snap at me for this, but the sighting of an Indian (I am assuming continent not Native American?) got me thinking.

What is the racial make-up of Weleetka and the surrounding area? Because a strange black or otherwise non-white male in an otherwise mostly white area might have been sufficiently unusual to have been what attracted the girls' attention.

I still think, knowing her love for animals, that Taylor might have heard something she thought was an animal and investigated. But I realize also that that's just me.

I'm pretty sure it's an American Indian that they're looking for. Oklahoma has a lot of American Indians. A lot.

[SeriouslySearching]

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/SeriouslySearching/POI.jpgOSBI spokeswoman Jessica Brown said agents want to talk to a man described as an American-Indian, possibly part white, who is about 35 years old and stands 6 feet tall. Brown said the man has a pony tail and drives a white Ford or Chevrolet single-cab pickup truck.

http://www.koco.com/news/16589907/detail.html (Bolded by me)

[Taximom]

Sad about Tim Russert. I never thought he looked healthy anyway. Poor guy. Isn't he the one that spoke so lovingly about his father?

[philamena]

From what Skyla's grandmother said I am not sure it is an overkill but a joy killing. Some of the wounds would not have been life threatening. I think he is a monster and brought them down and rendered them helpless with wounds to their legs and arms then he finished them off with the chest and head shots.

This man could be a serial killer imo just like Duncan cruising the back roads looking for victims.

So terrifying.

imoo

OceanBlueEyes,
Thanks for the reply. These types of killings are terrifying. OMgosh hopefully and prayerfully there isn't another Duncan walking the earth.

[XcomSquaddie]

"This is absolutely solvable," said Jessica Brown (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Jessica+Brown&CATEGORY=PERSON). "We're going to 'em it's just a matter of time."

Take it slow. Dot your i's, cross your t's and do it right. Don't let them/him get off on a technicality.

Oklahoma does have the DP, correct?

[Garnan]

We have the DP, and we use it.