PDA

View Full Version : Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #2



Pages : [1] 2 3

CW
06-12-2008, 04:48 PM
#1 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65845
Continue here please...

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 04:50 PM
Thanks, WindChime! :)

Patience
06-12-2008, 04:59 PM
I hope you are all holding up during this terrible tradegy. I am saddened beyond words for the girls and their families and their little friends who I am sure are heartbroken as are we.

I have so many questions and one is that the girls were apparently at one of their's grandfathers. They left for their walk. The grandfather called them shortly afterward to come back, then went to get them. He claims to have found them dead. All this is 30-35 minutes?

Why did the girls go? Why did the grandfather call to tell them to return? Why did he rush to find them? I do not want to point blame but the timeline is odd to me.

Here is a link to amw where I read this.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=56421

Shortly after the pair left, Taylor's grandfather and her guardian called Paschal-Placker's cell phone, trying to get them to come back. When the call went unanswered, he went looking for them. About a half mile north of the house, he found both girls on the side of the road.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 05:02 PM
If all the above is true, and if it is live video today, taken this morning sometime) then they are looking north (shadows of trees point to the west), and given our cultural habit of walking on the right side, I still maintain they didn't make it to the bridge.

The witness, if they did see the girls and the suspects, would have had to come up from behind them, passed them, and then met the suspects coming from the north, or may have passed them on the bridge, which makes me wonder if they were doing anything illegal at the bridge why they didn't go after the person in the car.

The girls were found on the west side of the road, south of the bridge. So they were just next to the southbound lane -- traffic headed away from the bridge and toward Taylor's house, which was south of the bridge according to the map posted today.
"Their bodies were found along the west side of County Line Road, about three-fourths of a mile north of Coleman Road, the sheriff said."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080610_12_A1_hThetw874180

Spazkat9696
06-12-2008, 05:04 PM
I hope you are all holding up during this terrible tradegy. I am saddened beyond words for the girls and their families and their little friends who I am sure are heartbroken as are we.

I have so many questions and one is that the girls were apparently at one of their's grandfathers. They left for their walk. The grandfather called them shortly afterward to come back, then went to get them. He claims to have found them dead. All this is 30-35 minutes?

Why did the girls go? Why did the grandfather call to tell them to return? Why did he rush to find them? I do not want to point blame but the timeline is odd to me.

Here is a link to amw where I read this.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=56421

Shortly after the pair left, Taylor's grandfather and her guardian called Paschal-Placker's cell phone, trying to get them to come back. When the call went unanswered, he went looking for them. About a half mile north of the house, he found both girls on the side of the road.


Maybe he just wanted them to come home for dinner. I don't find it odd, yet.

murdershewrote
06-12-2008, 05:09 PM
have to admit it does seem a bit odd about the quick timing on all this..but my initial reaction is that the girls went to the bridge/hangout, but obviously they didn't stay long (so why go there in the first place if you're just going to turn around and come right back, but maybe that was something they did quite frequentl) but maybe somebody was there that they were afraid of, or did see something. I heard on Greta that they believe the perps did a U turn, so I take that to mean they drove by the girls on their way back and then abruptly did a U to go back toward them. But didn't say if the vehicle would have been headed going toward or away from the bridge area.

Just the brutality of it...seems like people ampted up on some kind of drugs to me It could be anything..a joy killing, revenge, drugs, abduction gone wrong...these poor kids never had a chance. I saw a photo of the road...looked very isolated and heavily wooded on each side.

Hopeful One
06-12-2008, 05:15 PM
I hope you are all holding up during this terrible tradegy. I am saddened beyond words for the girls and their families and their little friends who I am sure are heartbroken as are we.

I have so many questions and one is that the girls were apparently at one of their's grandfathers. They left for their walk. The grandfather called them shortly afterward to come back, then went to get them. He claims to have found them dead. All this is 30-35 minutes?

Why did the girls go? Why did the grandfather call to tell them to return? Why did he rush to find them? I do not want to point blame but the timeline is odd to me.

Here is a link to amw where I read this.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=56421

Shortly after the pair left, Taylor's grandfather and her guardian called Paschal-Placker's cell phone, trying to get them to come back. When the call went unanswered, he went looking for them. About a half mile north of the house, he found both girls on the side of the road.

The grandfather called them because Skyla's mother had just called him telling him she was on her way to pick her daughter up. The grandfather then called the girl's cell phone, they didn't answer, so he went looking for them.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 05:18 PM
Maybe he just wanted them to come home for dinner. I don't find it odd, yet.

He went to get them because Skyla's mother called to say she was coming to pick her daughter up -- his wife tried calling Taylor's cell phone but there was no answer. Skyla's mother, in fact, did drive up very soon after he found the bodies, and he had to tell her. She was coming from the north, and probably would have been the one to discover the bodies if he hadn't first.

Skylar's grandmother, from a Nancy Grace interview:
"Well, Sunday afternoon. My daughter was the second person to arrive on the scene. And the daddy of Taylor wouldn't let her near Skyla. And she called us at our home, and we flew over there to see about her because we knew something was drastically wrong. So it was Sunday afternoon, probably 5:20."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 05:20 PM
They don't suspect the grandfather of any involvement. He was just concerned when they did not answer the phone. Skyla's mother arrived shortly after the murders. It certainly was quick...they said 20-25 minutes from the time they left until they were found.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 05:22 PM
She was coming from the North on that stretch of road?! Wouldn't she have possibly seen the suspect vehicle? I don't recall them saying she was coming from any direction, but I figured she was coming from the south then saw him further up the road so went there.

murdershewrote
06-12-2008, 05:25 PM
that's a very good question....

were the cell phones found on the girls?

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 05:26 PM
Since it was the phone the grandfather used...I would not want to think he pulled it out of her pocket or anything. It may have been laying beside her.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 05:27 PM
She was coming from the North on that stretch of road?! Wouldn't she have possibly seen the suspect vehicle?

You'd think. Except that the girls could have been killed fifteen or so minutes before they were found. In that case, the vehicle would have been long gone.

Or maybe the suspect vehicle was an ATV. Remember those reports of boys riding around in the area in ATVs? There is a big cleared swath right through the woods there.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 05:31 PM
They have the tire tracks so would know if it was an ATV easily that they were looking for. From everything I have heard and read...sounds like a regular vehicle.

Trino
06-12-2008, 05:33 PM
You'd think. Except that the girls could have been killed fifteen or so minutes before they were found. In that case, the vehicle would have been long gone.

Or maybe the suspect vehicle was an ATV. Remember those reports of boys riding around in the area in ATVs? There is a big cleared swath right through the woods there.

I thought I read/heard somewhere that LE suspected that the vehicle may have done a U-turn, which means the mother may not have passed the suspects.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 05:36 PM
They have the tire tracks so would know if it was an ATV easily that they were looking for. From everything I have heard and read...sounds like a regular vehicle.

Yeah, me too. But I don't know of anywhere they've specifically said it's a regular vehicle -- I'd been assuming it was a car or truck. Just speculation here, of course, but if it were an ATV, it would explain why they are so intent on the murderers being local.

txsvicki
06-12-2008, 05:37 PM
If this was a revenge killing for previously telling on someone doing drugs, then how would they know the girls would be on that road at that particular time. There's already a witness who saw the girls, the bridge is a hangout for kids, and Skylar's mother was on her way.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 05:38 PM
I thought I read/heard somewhere that LE suspected that the vehicle may have done a U-turn, which means the mother may not have passed the suspects.

But do we know what direction the murderers headed in after they made their U-turn? We don't know what direction they came from, or do we? I don't.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 05:41 PM
I wish we knew exactly where Skyla lived which would give us the probable path her mother took to pick her up.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 05:43 PM
But do we know what direction the murderers headed in after they made their U-turn? We don't know what direction they came from, or do we? I don't.I was just thinking about that very thing. I am looking to see if anyone ever said, but I don't know that they did.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 05:43 PM
I wish we knew exactly where Skyla lived which would give us the probable path her mother took to pick her up.

She lives north, in Henryetta technically.

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 05:50 PM
not to get you off focus, but did the guy who found them, say he had called them on the cellphone and they didn't answer ??

SailorMoon
06-12-2008, 05:51 PM
Yes BB he did. It was the grandfather/father

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 05:53 PM
http://newsok.com/article/3255986 <map of timeline

Using this and Google...it does look like she would have come from the North and down the road to Taylor's house. It would be a shortcut instead of going over further to Highway 75 and down.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 05:55 PM
not to get you off focus, but did the guy who found them, say he had called them on the cellphone and they didn't answer ??

His wife (Taylor's grandmother) tried calling several times and got no answer.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 05:56 PM
not to get you off focus, but did the guy who found them, say he had called them on the cellphone and they didn't answer ??Technically, her grandmother made the calls from the home phone to the cell phone and got no answer according to reports.

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 06:03 PM
so are we thinking, they walked to the bridge, were seen by someone lurking there, who drove to find them on their return walk. obviously nothing at the bridge frightened the girls or they would have phoned home. these guys were hassling them from their car and the phone rings, scaring them, so they shoot, so the girls can't answer the phone and blow the whistle on them.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 06:07 PM
so are we thinking, they walked to the bridge, were seen by someone lurking there, who drove to find them on their return walk. obviously nothing at the bridge frightened the girls or they would have phoned home. these guys were hassling them from their car and the phone rings, scaring them, so they shoot, so the girls can't answer the phone and blow the whistle on them.

That could very well be it. :eek: I hadn't thought about the implications of the phone ringing.

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 06:08 PM
How long would it have taken the girls to walk to where they were found from the home?

Also, did the Grandfather walk or did he drive a car when he went to look for them??

Sorry, jumping in late. This is so disgusting that two little girls were cut down like this for no apparent reason that is obvious right now.

I have read speculation of drugs and joy killing so far. Someone mentioned that they were the only 2 girls in the school. At their ages, would this have been a "middle school" (like maybe 6th to 8th graders)??

murdershewrote
06-12-2008, 06:09 PM
It was described as execution style. So as far as revenge, it might have been revenge against a family member, not the girls themselves. Maybe somebody knew the girls frequented this path and waited for them. If it was more of a spontaneous killing, then the killers would have had to be carrying these weapons with them all time time, which is somewhat risky (what if they got stopped by LE for speeding or something). But I don't know the area...maybe it's not unusual for people to have guns in their cars all the time?

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:11 PM
We don't know if the perps were already at the scene and the girls came up on them after going to the bridge or not. The girls most likely were gone by the time the grandmother called, imo. It will be very interesting to get the timeline of the phone calls.

txsvicki
06-12-2008, 06:12 PM
Maybe a kid the girls know confided some secret to them and they were going to tell. That still wouldn't answer how the person knew the girls would be where they were right at that time. I think the local cop is right about people being very cautious. Either a lunatic/s are on the loose or other kids could be in danger from a local who is trying to keep them quiet.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:13 PM
It was described as execution style. So as far as revenge, it might have been revenge against a family member, not the girls themselves. Maybe somebody knew the girls frequented this path and waited for them. If it was more of a spontaneous killing, then the killers would have had to be carrying these weapons with them all time time, which is somewhat risky (what if they got stopped by LE for speeding or something). But I don't know the area...maybe it's not unusual for people to have guns in their cars all the time?Assault weapons would be unusual, but rifles and shotguns...no.

MissieMt
06-12-2008, 06:14 PM
Littledeer I read in one of the first articles that this school only had 100 children from kindergarten to 12th grade, and 60 more via the internet because it was such a rural area (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). That is not very many children at all-but the odds that they were the only 2 girls seems a bit off.
I am jumping in late too but i just had time to read everything today.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 06:17 PM
How long would it have taken the girls to walk to where they were found from the home?

Also, did the Grandfather walk or did he drive a car when he went to look for them??

Sorry, jumping in late. This is so disgusting that two little girls were cut down like this for no apparent reason that is obvious right now.

I have read speculation of drugs and joy killing so far. Someone mentioned that they were the only 2 girls in the school. At their ages, would this have been a "middle school" (like maybe 6th to 8th graders)??

They were found 300 yards from home. The bridge was 3/4 of a mile from home.

The grandfather walked to find them. (Er . . . I think he walked.)

They weren't the only girls in their school. One of them was the only girl in her class. There were only about 10 students in each class IIRC. The school was combined, because of so few students, and their girls' grades were combined into one classroom.

murdershewrote
06-12-2008, 06:19 PM
To me the most likely scenario is a sexual assault gone wrong...although they weren't sexually molested (according to reports) the girls knew who these guys were, maybe they started screaming, or like someone suggested, their cell phone rang...and the perps ended up killing them because they could ID them. I hope they find some sort of DNA on their bodies...

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 06:21 PM
I would like to know where the cellphone they were carrying was found.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:28 PM
Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation lead agent Ben Rosser said they tested the witness' story and believe him to be credible. During a Thursday news conference, Rosser said that the witness offered no names of people he might have seen in the area moments before Taylor Dawn Paschal-Placker, 13, of Weleetka, and Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, of Henryetta, were shot to death.

http://www.koco.com/news/16589907/detail.html

So at least we do know the witness is male.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 06:29 PM
I would like to know where the cellphone they were carrying was found.

Here's a little synopsis from Criminal Report Daily for those of you arriving late:
Skyla and Taylor's bodies were discovered Sunday evening in a ditch along County Line Road in Weleetka, Oklahoma. According to the Okfuskee County Sheriff's Office, Skyla had been spending the night at Taylor's house, and the two had decided to take a walk along the dirt road to the bridge over Bad Creek. It was something both girls had done many times before, and the bridge was only about a quarter of a mile from Taylor's house, where she lived with her grandfather and legal guardian, Peter Placker. When the girls failed to return home in a timely manner, Placker called Taylor's cell phone but got no answer. Mildly concerned by the lack of response, Placker set out on foot to locate the two girls.
"He got 200 to 300 yards north of the home and found the girls on the side of the road," OSBI special agent Ben Rosser told Adaeveningnews.com (http://www.adaeveningnews.com/). "Both girls had been shot multiple times. Both girls were dead at the scene. At that time, he (Placker) took a cell phone from one of the girls and made a 9-1-1 telephone call to notify the authorities."
http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/06/oklahoma-invest.html

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:30 PM
The grandfather walked to find them. (Er . . . I think he walked.)

"I can't describe coming up on it," Peter Placker said, sobbing uncontrollably as he recalled walking up to the scene, only about one-quarter mile from his house. "I done it once, and I can't do it again."

http://www.koco.com/news/16589907/detail.html(Bolded by me)

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:33 PM
I hope they find some sort of DNA on their bodies...

Rosser said investigators have interviewed several people and that DNA is being gathered from the girls to match up against evidence from possible suspects. Among the worst-case scenarios investigators are considering are that the shooting was random, the girls stumbled upon something or were targeted. He said Wednesday that he believes the girls were killed where they were found along the road, not killed somewhere else and transported there.

http://www.koco.com/news/16589907/detail.html (Bolded by me)

Desertsand
06-12-2008, 06:33 PM
Thank you to all for the kind welcome.

I can't be of much use on the input about the area. It has been many,many years since I lived there and as we all know the world is a much different place as of late.

I was very encouraged by the presser. It seems they may have more information as of today. Perhaps trying to put pressure on the one's who know to come forward with more information.

I agree that the grading of the road was a really stupid thing to do if I heard that correctly at the presser. Also the cell phone ringing is a very good idea!

MissieMt
06-12-2008, 06:34 PM
Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I know one of our theories here is that they stumbled upon some sort of illegal activity:
Does anyone know if the creek (Bad Creek?) is dry right now, or if there is significant water running through it. If so I wonder if maybe someone was throwing something over that bridge into the creek below and the girls walked up not realizing what was going on. Wonder if they have searched for any evidence in that creek?

murdershewrote
06-12-2008, 06:37 PM
I can't even imagine ...he must have gone into total shock to get thru it and knew enough not to do anything to their bodies.

OrdinaryLife
06-12-2008, 06:41 PM
I don't see this as a murder to send a message to any family member. How would anyone have known about two young girls having a sleepover and *then* to take a walk? Obviously, any phone/mobile phone will be checked out by LE, but I do not see that as a reason for these murders.

I think these angels were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Two guns, two shooters. To kill. I still believe, as I stated in an earlier post, that whoever killed these angels has done so before. ~Maybe~ not to such a brutal extreme, but they have killed before. Noone shoots any child without some reason (even one we could never understand) and in such a horrific way. To have both shot in the head...they wanted these angels dead.

Perhaps someone who mentioned this is right...could it have been a "thrill kill"???

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:43 PM
Desertsand, I see you moved to the OTHER state. (Go Big Red!)

Yes, things in the quiet, wonderful existence we used to know in rural Oklahoma has changed over the years. It is sad to see the innocence stripped from people in this small community, but it is a reality people need to face. It is time to lock their doors and windows, take the keys out of their cars, and watch their children closely.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:45 PM
Steadfast...just click edit then to go advanced. It will let you delete your post from there if you want. :)

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 06:47 PM
How far away would shots be able to be heard in a rural setting like that?

OrdinaryLife
06-12-2008, 06:48 PM
I was thinking.... When are the funerals for these angels? I think I would have LE scope out and tape both wakes/funerals as well as stake out the area where these babies were murdered. I think who ever killed them would definitely return to the site or visit funeral home/cematary of where they will be buried. Even not long after the fact.

I think they would be that stupid....

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:49 PM
Rosser said detectives still have no suspects in the girls' deaths but that investigators were back at the scene early Thursday. He said an aviation unit with the Oklahoma Highway Patrol was also helping to scour the scene for clues.

http://www.koco.com/news/16589907/detail.html (Bolded by me)

Since they are doing air searches, it makes me wonder what they are looking for. It could be they are checking the river/creek for signs of something plus the fields. Are they thinking perhaps they could have ditched the vehicle?

They haven't mentioned if they were searching the water (I have to assume there is water there, but not sure).

txsvicki
06-12-2008, 06:50 PM
I can't remember which girl the cell phone belonged to, but wonder if it could have GPS tracking on it. The area where the memorial is set up looks like it is an area where a car could be pulled over and be sort of behind the trees a bit.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 06:50 PM
Thanks for the article about the girls being found on the west side of the road. It is kind of strange that they were shot in the chest when on the west side. They must have been confronted obviously and turned to face their attackers. I wonder if that makes it more likely a driver was involved, but did not shoot.

I wish they would publish a timeline as every article just goes by about, etc. They do say the 911 call was 5:40. He probably went looking for them about 5:25 or so. Most articles say the girls left around 5, which gives about 20-25 minutes for the murder to occur is my guess.

That is a good call about the cell phone possibly alerting whomever that the girls were near or triggered something.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:51 PM
I was thinking.... When are the funerals for these angels? The funerals will both be held on Friday, in two separate towns.

The family of 11-year-old Taylor Paschal-Placker will hold her funeral services at 10 a.m. on Friday at Dewar First Baptist Church, 507 E 6th St.

Skyla Whitaker, 13, will have her funeral services held at 2 p.m. at First Baptist Church in Henryetta, 420 West Trudgeon St., in Henryetta.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8481653

MissieMt
06-12-2008, 06:51 PM
They haven't mentioned if they were searching the water (I have to assume there is water there, but not sure).
SS, this is very disturbing to me. I really think they should be checking into that creek. IMO, it would make perfect sense-in a sick murderous sort of way:mad:

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 06:52 PM
Sorry, for the post again, but some were asking how people might know they were taking a walk.

One article I read stated that Taylor made the trek to the bridge periodically for exercise. I don't remember if it was daily, but I'll see if I can find that again.

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 06:52 PM
I dont' know if the shooters have killled a human before but I bet they have killed animals.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:52 PM
I believe they said it was Taylor's cell phone.

murdershewrote
06-12-2008, 06:53 PM
Mark Fuhrman was interviewed the other night and agrees with you that whoever did this, has killed before. In his opinion this isn't something that one does first time out. He also believes the shots to the head were what police call "insurance", to make absolutely sure the girls were dead. They wanted to make sure no one would live to tell.

Hard to say, we've been fooled many times before in cases...look at the Groehne case, those kids were watched for a few days beforehand. But I do think it is locals though and I do think they will be arrested very soon.

Is there any gang activity in that area?

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:54 PM
Sorry, for the post again, but some were asking how people might know they were taking a walk.

One article I read stated that Taylor made the trek to the bridge periodically for exercise. I don't remember if it was daily, but I'll see if I can find that again.It was daily, but different times every day. There was no set pattern as to when she decided to take her walk, but it was her exercise according to reports.

OrdinaryLife
06-12-2008, 06:55 PM
The funerals will both be held on Friday, in two separate towns.

The family of 11-year-old Taylor Paschal-Placker will hold her funeral services at 10 a.m. on Friday at Dewar First Baptist Church, 507 E 6th St.

Skyla Whitaker, 13, will have her funeral services held at 2 p.m. at First Baptist Church in Henryetta, 420 West Trudgeon St., in Henryetta.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8481653

What a horrible, horrible day for these families. :(

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 06:55 PM
MissieMT:

Nice to see you again! Thanks for your answers to my questions.

SS: I take it you live in Oklahoma? The timing of the killings was around 5:00 to 5:30 p.m. That would still be in BROAD DAYLIGHT. I have read this was a rural area, but yet the road was well traveled.

So far I would think LE has the shell casings, (so they know exactly what type of guns were used), tire threads (so they know roughly what type of vehicle was in the area), and any other evidence.

But from what they have been saying, it doesn't appear that the killers were local. ?????

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 06:55 PM
SS, this is very disturbing to me. I really think they should be checking into that creek. IMO, it would make perfect sense-in a sick murderous sort of way:mad:I agree. They need to look for signs or a body of another person being murdered. At least, search for the weapons in the creek/river.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 06:57 PM
It might be wrong to surmise, but originally, I had thought the walk was more of a leisurely stroll that two young girls might make. If she were used to brisk walking for exercise, then maybe they could have made it to the bridge and back.

I know I have kind of been hung up on this, but my logic was that if they didn't make it to the bridge, just strolling onto an illegal act in the middle of the road, didn't make sense to me, thus, I'd go for the thrill kill scenario.

However, if they made it to the bridge, which to me, gives more real estate to do something covert or be a landmark where a drug drop might be, etc. then the gang or drug runner scenario is more likely.

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 06:58 PM
Can anyone put up a map of the area??

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 07:00 PM
Can anyone put up a map of the area??

There's already one on this thread. It should be easy to find since it will look so much different than the other posts.

murdershewrote
06-12-2008, 07:01 PM
yes, I'm sure they'd want to ditch the weapons somewhere.

I seem to recall Greta reported that LE does believe the girls made it to the bridge...that they were seen there. by whom I don't know...maybe the witness they have interviewed?

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 07:03 PM
I hope this works.

Here's the maps.yahoo.com site

http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=h&lat=35.383868&lon=-96.086355&zoom=16&q1=weleetka%2C%20OK

Taylor's house is in the clearing in the lower middle of the map, near 1130.

N3890 Rd is the County Line Road

You can see Bad Creek about 3/4 of the way to 1120

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 07:04 PM
Thanks Steadfast.

Will go look now. Came here late. Knew better, as I am just sick to my stomach right now!!!

I want these ba*******s caught!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 07:05 PM
Mark Fuhrman was interviewed the other night and agrees with you that whoever did this, has killed before. In his opinion this isn't something that one does first time out. He also believes the shots to the head were what police call "insurance", to make absolutely sure the girls were dead. They wanted to make sure no one would live to tell.

Hard to say, we've been fooled many times before in cases...look at the Groehne case, those kids were watched for a few days beforehand. But I do think it is locals though and I do think they will be arrested very soon.

Is there any gang activity in that area?Not the immediate area as this is very rural, but the known drug routes are only a mile and 5 miles away. I think it has everything to do with gangs and drugs. Unless the local is deeply tied with them...I think the shooters are from outside.

Mark F. said many things I had mentioned before. I think it is the right track to say this was someone experienced with violence of this type. Everything screams to me that this was gangland style and there was an immediate reason to kill the girls. It happened too quickly for a sexual assault scenario. They wouldn't shoot them there if they were trying to abduct them. So it was a sudden circumstance which would leave it to be planned or they saw something, imo.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 07:05 PM
I hope this works.

Here's the maps.yahoo.com site

http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=h&lat=35.383868&lon=-96.086355&zoom=16&q1=weleetka%2C%20OK

Taylor's house is in the clearing in the lower middle of the map, near 1130.

N3890 Rd is the County Line Road

You can see Bad Creek about 3/4 of the way to 1120

That worked great! That diagonal line is the cleared swath through the woods. It intersects practically right at the murder scene.

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 07:05 PM
21-1123.

A. Any person who shall knowingly and intentionally:

1. Make any oral or written lewd or indecent proposal to any child
under sixteen (16) years of age for the child to have unlawful sexual
relations or sexual intercourse with any person; or

2. Look upon, touch, maul, or feel the body or private parts of any
child under sixteen (16) years of age in any lewd or lascivious manner
by any acts against public decency and morality, as defined by law; or

3. Ask, invite, entice, or persuade any child under sixteen (16) years
of age to go alone with any person to a secluded, remote, or secret
place, with the unlawful and willful intent and purpose then and there
to commit any crime against public decency and morality, as defined by
law, with the child; or

4. In any manner lewdly or lasciviously look upon, touch, maul, or
feel the body or private parts of any child under sixteen (16) years
of age in any indecent manner or in any manner relating to sexual
matters or sexual interest; or

5. In a lewd and lascivious manner and for the purpose of sexual
gratification, urinate or defecate upon a child under sixteen (16)
years of age or ejaculate upon or in the presence of a child, or force
or require a child to look upon the body or private parts of another
person or upon sexual acts performed in the presence of the child or
force or require a child to touch or feel the body or private parts of
said child or another person,

upon conviction, shall be deemed guilty of a felony and shall be
punished by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary for not less than
one (1) year nor more than twenty (20) years. The provisions of this
section shall not apply unless the accused is at least three (3) years
older than the victim. Any person convicted of a second or subsequent
violation of subsection A of this section shall be guilty of a felony
and shall not be eligible for probation, suspended or deferred
sentence. Any person convicted of a third or subsequent violation of
subsection A of this section shall be guilty of a felony and shall be
punished by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary for a term of life
or life without parole, in the discretion of the jury, or in case the
jury fails or refuses to fix punishment then the same shall be
pronounced by the court.

B. No person shall commit sexual battery on any other person. "Sexual
battery" shall mean the intentional touching, mauling or feeling of
the body or private parts of any person sixteen (16) years of age or
older, in a lewd and lascivious manner and without the consent of that
person. Any person convicted of any violation of this subsection shall
be deemed guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in
the State Penitentiary for not more than five (5) years.

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 07:05 PM
Envoy:

THANKS!!!!!!!!! Just caught your post as I was leaving to find the map!!

:blowkiss:

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 07:06 PM
Thanks Steadfast.

Will go look now. Came here late. Knew better, as I am just sick to my stomach right now!!!

I want these ba*******s caught!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, it's on thread #1. I think it was posted today.

MissieMt
06-12-2008, 07:10 PM
The killers could have been doing anything at that bridge-not just a drug deal. Am I remembering correctly that the road was not travelled often?

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 07:11 PM
The killers could have been doing anything at that bridge-not just a drug deal. Am I remembering correctly that the road was not travelled often?

LE said it was travelled pretty often by locals and that the bridge was a popular hang out.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 07:14 PM
I believe the other map is near the bottom of page 14 in the first thread.

MissieMt
06-12-2008, 07:16 PM
Thank you Steadfast. I just couldn't remember, I just crammed all this in today and the talk about the dirt road just led me to think it wasn't a well travelled road.

murdershewrote
06-12-2008, 07:17 PM
it could have been more of a gang initiation type killing...go out and find somebody to kill, the bolder the better (those sick XXXXXXX). It happens here in SoCal all the time. It would be hard for me to believe in a rural town like that, but I know no place is Mayberry anymore.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 07:17 PM
Map: http://newsok.com/article/3255986 (I wish they would fix it so we could drag and drop pics here! So much easier than photobucket.)

Thanks for the other map, Envoy. I don't see a house in that clearing and I can't make out water or the bridge. I wonder if Google Earth is any better?

1000Sparks
06-12-2008, 07:19 PM
that's like just making up some chit...


People don't have meth labs in the middle of the road, especially a busy one...and who lays waiting for two little girls?

they saw something? while they are walking down the road...give me a break.

This was a thrill killing...and I don't believe there were two people....one person with 2 guns...different calibers...trying t mess with LE.

Betting they have a suspect.

noZme
06-12-2008, 07:20 PM
someone ,envoy perhaps, posted a picture of the roadside memorial very late in chapter 1 of this discussion. i tried to put it here & it didn't work. please, somebody who knows how, put it here. that should help settle confusion for those trying to picture the woods & ditch.

it is a very shallow ditch and most of the grass & undergrowth on the right-of-way is kneehigh. of course around where the memorabilia is piled, the grass has been trampled but you'll see what it looks like past there.

about the road being graded..... i thought maybe investigators had it done. they might have pulled an inch or two & to sift thru. i cannot believe the county road department would have gone there without asking if it's okay so soon after the murders... remember it's a small community & i would expect communication between the sheriffs department & road maintenance.... in fact, i would expect there to be law enforcement posted there 24/7.

KR2tonenow
06-12-2008, 07:21 PM
OK, I go with the 2 girls being witness to something at the bridge (assault or drugs). Do kids "drink" out there and party? Was the reliable witness just seconds before seeing the girls, not able to see anything? Hmmm. I agree with other posters to check the creek below the bridge...

Great job, guys!

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 07:24 PM
This was a thrill killing...and I don't believe there were two people....one person with 2 guns...different calibers...trying t mess with LE.



I agree it was a thrill killing, but the closeness of the girls, the fact that the driver would have had to get out of the car, or shoot through the passenger side, etc. makes me believe that it was done with a driver and at least one passenger.

Someone supposedly (or at least LE wants them to think that they) did see the girls just minutes before they were shot which means they probably also got a good look at at least the car of the assailants.

murdershewrote
06-12-2008, 07:24 PM
LE feels there were two killers because the two girls were found next to each other...while the killer was shooting one, they believe the other one would have tried to run and the body would have been found at least a little ways away from the other one. Course it's always possible one person could have held them both with a gun for a few minutes, because they were so scared and probably just froze.

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 07:28 PM
Missie brought up a good point about the bridge. If say two or more people were there doing something illegal, and the girls are innocently walking toward that direction and one of the perps looks up and sees the girls...........

2 of the perps could have gotten in their vehicle and driven down to where the girls were and killed them.

The girls probably didn't even realize what was going on and had no chance to react in any way.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 07:29 PM
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080611/capt.72c03105a1ce46af82e9986bedb6d63d.girls_killed _okso104.jpg

Here's a link to the memorial. This would be looking north, on the west side of County Line Road 3890 or whatever number it is.

Here's the link to the other map (it's from someone elses photobucket account, if this link is wrong, let me know)

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/lightingthewayhome/j11welcrimemap.jpg

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 07:36 PM
that's like just making up some chit...


People don't have meth labs in the middle of the road, especially a busy one...and who lays waiting for two little girls?

they saw something? while they are walking down the road...give me a break.

This was a thrill killing...and I don't believe there were two people....one person with 2 guns...different calibers...trying t mess with LE.

Betting they have a suspect. Have you ever heard of a rolling meth lab? We have them all over here. I wouldn't consider it a "busy" road since there are only 100 kids in the entire school system. LOL Everything is relative.

You could be right since they have a witness now. At least they have a description. They should also know if there were more than one.

Albert18
06-12-2008, 07:39 PM
Like some of you I have been wondering about the distance the girls covered and the time involved, seemed too tight to me.

I think I have found the answer. The 3/4's of a mile to the bridge doesn't appear to be correct.

The distance from road 1130 to the bridge appears to be about 7/10 of a mile and probably a little less. The Taylor house is north of road 1130 so the distance from her house to the bridge appears to be in the 6/10 of a mile range.

KR2tonenow
06-12-2008, 07:39 PM
Nancy G is covering this tonight 5:oo/8:oo et.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 07:40 PM
The OSBI agent that had the survey equipment was just on the local news. I didn't catch all of what he said, but he had it near a fast running creek. Guess that answers the question of if there was water under the bridge.

KR2tonenow
06-12-2008, 07:41 PM
Like some of you I have been wondering about the distance the girls covered and the time involved, seemed too tight to me.

I think I have found the answer. The 3/4's of a mile to the bridge doesn't appear to be correct.

The distance from road 1130 to the bridge appears to be about 7/10 of a mile and probably a little less. The Taylor house is north of road 1130 so the distance from her house to the bridge appears to be in the 6/10 of a mile range.

Can you equate this in blocks for me?

poco
06-12-2008, 07:42 PM
Nancy G is covering this tonight 5:oo/8:oo et.

Thanks for the news - hoping in shower now so I can watch it!!!

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 07:42 PM
What did this agent have "near" the fast running creek?

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 07:45 PM
About 10 city blocks.



Thanks for the other map, Envoy. I don't see a house in that clearing and I can't make out water or the bridge. I wonder if Google Earth is any better?


If you blow up that yahoo map to it's highest resolution, and look over the creek, you can see the shadow of the bridge in the river bed below.

You cannot see a house. I just assumed Taylor's house is in that clearing as it correlates the other map, and a little bit from the raw footage of the merry surveyors today.

KR2tonenow
06-12-2008, 07:47 PM
About 10 city blocks.



If you blow up that yahoo map to it's highest resolution, and look over the creek, you can see the shadow of the bridge in the river bed below.

You cannot see a house. I just assumed Taylor's house is in that clearing as it correlates the other map, and a little bit from the raw footage of the merry surveyors today.

TY, ED!:)

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 07:49 PM
someone ,envoy perhaps, posted a picture of the roadside memorial very late in chapter 1 of this discussion. i tried to put it here & it didn't work. please, somebody who knows how, put it here. that should help settle confusion for those trying to picture the woods & ditch.

it is a very shallow ditch and most of the grass & undergrowth on the right-of-way is kneehigh. of course around where the memorabilia is piled, the grass has been trampled but you'll see what it looks like past there.

about the road being graded..... i thought maybe investigators had it done. they might have pulled an inch or two & to sift thru. i cannot believe the county road department would have gone there without asking if it's okay so soon after the murders... remember it's a small community & i would expect communication between the sheriffs department & road maintenance.... in fact, i would expect there to be law enforcement posted there 24/7.No, the county would have graded the road without input from the Sheriff's department. While it is a small town, the county isn't so "connected". The Sheriff's Dept. made a mistake by not contacting them, imo. No, LE would not be posted there after they released the scene which they had to do before the memorial went up. It does look like a shallow ditch in that photo which surprises me because I would have expected to see a deeper bar ditch.

It looks so close that the grandfather could have seen the girls had they been walking, but they were shielded by the folliage until he got upon them I guess.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 07:52 PM
If you blow up that yahoo map to it's highest resolution, and look over the creek, you can see the shadow of the bridge in the river bed below.

You cannot see a house. I just assumed Taylor's house is in that clearing as it correlates the other map, and a little bit from the raw footage of the merry surveyors today.I tried Google Earth and it wouldn't get close enough. I did finally catch that shadow of the bridge tho. Thanks, Envoy!

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 07:52 PM
It's doable to go up to the bridge, but to go up and back within the time frame, I think is a stretch unless you are really running both ways. I don't see two adolescent girls on a Sunday afternoon in the heat running that quickly.

When you add in a witness in a car driving by the girls and the killers, it does make one wonder the rush to kill; I mean why let a driver go by and focus on two girls.

MissieMt
06-12-2008, 07:53 PM
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080611/capt.72c03105a1ce46af82e9986bedb6d63d.girls_killed _okso104.jpg

Here's a link to the memorial. This would be looking north, on the west side of County Line Road 3890 or whatever number it is.

Here's the link to the other map (it's from someone elses photobucket account, if this link is wrong, let me know)

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/lightingthewayhome/j11welcrimemap.jpg

Do we have a larger picture of the memorial-or at least a way of blowing it up?

ETA: Do we know for a fact that the memorial site is on the same side of the road, and near where the girls were found? I'm just wondering if LE would be letting people trample thru the crime scene like that. If the memorial is a few feet away from where the girls were found the foliage could be slightly different, and the ditch could be too for that matter.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 07:56 PM
I can blow it up, but I can't post it right now. What are we looking for, Missie?

KR2tonenow
06-12-2008, 07:57 PM
That's the magical question, why even kill those poor girls? Hopefully Nancy can give us new info!

MissieMt
06-12-2008, 07:59 PM
SS, I was wondering if that was really the ditch where they were found or if perhaps the actual ditch is behind some of the foliage where the memorial is.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 08:05 PM
The news articles I have read about the memorial state it is very near where the bodies were actually found. If you see the earlier pictures (google Weleetka in yahoo news photos), they had pictures when it was raining and that is where the water flows. I don't think there is a bigger or deeper ditch on the road.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 08:07 PM
When you add in a witness in a car driving by the girls and the killers, it does make one wonder the rush to kill; I mean why let a driver go by and focus on two girls.Evidently, the driver didn't see what the girls saw.

They just showed them on the local news searching below the bridge in the deep brush by the river and going deeper into the woods along the road. It showed the bridge, too. The OSBI Agent was explaining the survey equipment and about mapping out the scene.

They did say they won't be back tomorrow and this would probably be the last search of the area (which I take it to mean they didn't find anything).

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 08:10 PM
SS, I was wondering if that was really the ditch where they were found or if perhaps the actual ditch is behind some of the foliage where the memorial is.They mentioned a "bar ditch" early on in the investigation. The slight ditch we see is definitely not a bar ditch. So I don't know.

MissieMt
06-12-2008, 08:11 PM
Thank you EnvoyDriver61. I was just curious because we have a ditch that runs along our road, but you can't really see it due to all the high grass and weeds growing (thanks to the county being too lazy on their mowing :) )

noZme
06-12-2008, 08:13 PM
quotes, pictures & more:

quotes from uncle joe
"Both families are having a very hard time, really. The people in the community, especially, have done wonders. They have all pulled together and they're helping these families and we appreciate that so much. They are doing a great job of taking care of these families."

One of Taylor's thrills, Mosher said, was rescuing turtles that she found in the road near her home. "She would take a black magic marker with her and write her name on them then turn them lose. She would rescue them off the highway, roads and such, and bring them out here and turn them loose," he said. "She loved it out here, she totally loved it out here. She loved animals, and had her own horse up here. She had dogs, cats; she loved animals. She was a very bright girl."
***
"They loved each other. Usually, if you saw them out here, they were both together," Mosher said. "One weekend they would be at Taylor's house, the next weekend they would be at Skyla's house."

Mosher said the families have laid their trust in the hands of the Okfuskee County Sheriff's Department and the OSBI to find the killers. "We all understand that there's only certain information they can release and it's best to release it all at once," he said. "They're doing a good job, and we appreciate that. I'm surprised there hasn't been an arrest yet, but there will be. It might take a little bit but whoever it was, will be caught.

"It's just a really sad thing that this happened and they'll pay their dues; they will pay their dues. Everybody asks if I want to hurt these people. No, I don't want to hurt these people. The people in prison will hurt these people. When these people are caught and they go to prison, that's the end of it. They will pay their dues in prison."
(emplasis mine)
http://www.city-data.com/city/Weleetka-Oklahoma.html (http://www.city-data.com/city/Weleetka-Oklahoma.html)



pictures of weleetka:
this is a local forum, scroll down the page & you'll see pictures around town http://www.city-data.com/forum/oklahoma/189488-need-info-about-weleetka.html#post1932643 (http://www.city-data.com/forum/oklahoma/189488-need-info-about-weleetka.html#post1932643)


the $25k reward is as much as the yearly income in that area
demographics from that same site:

Estimated median household income in 2005: $21,400 (it was $19,141 in 2000)


Weleetka http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif $21,400Oklahoma: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif $37,063

Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $32,400 (it was $27,100 in 2000)

Weleetka http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif $32,400Oklahoma: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif $89,100

Desertsand
06-12-2008, 08:16 PM
SeriouslySearching;Desertsand, I see you moved to the OTHER state. (Go Big Red!)

Yes, things in the quiet, wonderful existence we used to know in rural Oklahoma has changed over the years. It is sad to see the innocence stripped from people in this small community, but it is a reality people need to face. It is time to lock their doors and windows, take the keys out of their cars, and watch their children closely.

Yes, SS LOL I am a transplanted Texan but an Okie at heart. I guess this is what brought me out of lurker status.

I knew I had seen water running under that bridge but couldn't find a picture with a news agency to quote. I think it was on Nancy Grace lastnight.

MissieMt
06-12-2008, 08:18 PM
Thanks for all the great info noZme. I saw the pictures on city data earlier-but WOW I didn't realize the reward equated to the average yearly income around there-that should get some people talking I hope. I would imagine that if it is a local person as many suspect there will be an arrest in due time. Criminals often like to brag about their crimes and word will get around as soon as that happens.

ETA: HOOK 'EM!!!
....sorry I had to do it with all the okies on this thread :)

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 08:21 PM
Nancy is on right now and it showed it again. They are showing good videos of the scene actually.

Off topic: We will still claim you until OU/Texas weekend. :)

:eek: :Banane09: I saw that, Missie!!

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 08:21 PM
Envoy, thanks for the pic of the ditch in the last thread. I see it's not really a ditch but more of a gutter. The girls were out in plain sight.

What I find interesting is, if the girls had the opportunity, they could have run into the thick woods lining the sides of the road, and been invisible in 5 seconds. IMO, they knew and trusted their killer to let him get close enough to draw a gun on them, or they were picked off at a distance. Then finished off at close range.

MissieMt
06-12-2008, 08:23 PM
Envoy, thanks for the pic of the ditch in the last thread. I see it's not really a ditch but more of a gutter. The girls were out in plain sight.

What I find interesting is, if the girls had the opportunity, they could have run into the thick woods lining the sides of the road, and been invisible in 5 seconds. IMO, they knew and trusted their killer to let him get close enough to draw a gun on them, or they were picked off at a distance. Then finished off at close range.

That's a very good point SuziQ. Unfortunately, I think the latter part of your statement is most likely.

txsvicki
06-12-2008, 08:24 PM
`They're talking about trajectory on Nancy Grace. I wonder if they suspect a couple of jerks riding in the back of a pick up driven by someone else.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 08:26 PM
Thanks for the info, NoZ. It is just so sad they weren't at Skyla's for the weekend instead. :(

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 08:30 PM
`They're talking about trajectory on Nancy Grace. I wonder if they suspect a couple of jerks riding in the back of a pick up driven by someone else.The spokesperson from the OSBI didn't seem to indicate anything as to where the shots came from as in trajectory. She was being careful not to give that info up. She did say they were checking for anywhere that someone could hide tho.

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 08:32 PM
After seeing the road on Nacy Grace, I am picturing the girls walking off the side of the road more toward to the middle, it's not like where I live that is a paved road with lines and traffic, and we tend to walk closer to the edge of the road.

With the new witness coming forward saying he drove past them minutes before, would mean the girls probably moved over to one side of the road. (of course that depends if he was driving toward them or not).

I'm wondering if he also passed by the perps and maybe something happened between them ( even a fu** off) can get some people riled up) and they went after him.

But he was gone and they took it out on the girls???

Just throwing out ideas. But I really lean toward them seeing something and that is what got them killed. You don't shoot in the chest and then shoot in the head unless you wanted to make sure they were dead.

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 08:33 PM
I wonder if the head wounds were pre or post mortem?

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 08:35 PM
It was said that the girls were shot from the front and shot at the scene where they were found.

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 08:36 PM
I might have this wrong, but one of them said it wasn't for sport but planned.

Did I hear that right??

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 08:40 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/

The bodies of Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, and Skyla Whitaker, 11, were found Sunday by Taylor's grandfather. CNN's Nancy Grace spoke with Skyla's grandmother Claudia Farrow and with Jessica Brown, a spokeswoman with the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. (more and video at the above link)

michelle
06-12-2008, 08:57 PM
This thread is so long and I am sure this has been asked but does OK have the DP?

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 08:58 PM
On the Nancy Grace show, the spokeswoman for the OSBI said the bullets entered the girls from the front. Interestingly, she would not say which direction the murderers' vehicle was traveling.

michelle
06-12-2008, 09:00 PM
On the press conference they said the Grandfather walked about 200-300 yards north of the house, would it be possible for them to have heard gunshots?

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 09:04 PM
michelle:

Nancy asked that very question about hearing the gunshots.

The response was no gunshots were heard. But it could have been due to a radio being on, etc. More so, the wind direction was the final answer. (It was in the opposite direction) IIRC

michelle
06-12-2008, 09:06 PM
michelle:

Nancy asked that very question about hearing the gunshots.

The response was no gunshots were heard. But it could have been due to a radio being on, etc. More so, the wind direction was the final answer. (It was in the opposite direction) IIRC
DH says that if its an open field its possible to hear but who knows. He said if its alot of trees ect you may have a harder time to hear.

poco
06-12-2008, 09:06 PM
And, MAYBE, there really isn't a witness.... maybe LE is just staying that to try to get the killers rattled and say or do something stupid. Just a thought..............

noZme
06-12-2008, 09:07 PM
more demographics for comparison:
*fewer people per square mile than in many apartment complexes
*not as many houses in the whole town as many subdivisions
*a high percentage of residents who have paid-off mortgages


Houses: 450 (368 occupied: 264 owner occupied, 104 renter occupied)


&#37; of renters here: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif 28%State: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif 32%

Housing density: 650 houses/condos per square mile

Median price asked for vacant for-sale houses and condos in 2000: $27,500



Median rent asked for vacant for-rent units in 2000: $117



Median gross rent in Weleetka, OK in 2000: $242



Housing units in Weleetka with a mortgage: 100 (6 second mortgage, 7 home equity loan, 0 both second mortgage and home equity loan)
Houses without a mortgage: 116

Patience
06-12-2008, 09:07 PM
Pair of guns found near girls' bodies, investigators say

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/services/newspaper/printedition/thursday/orl-usnews12_108jun12,0,5090185.story

poco
06-12-2008, 09:10 PM
Two guns were found at the scene?
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/services/newspaper/printedition/thursday/orl-usnews12_108jun12,0,5090185.story

Wow!!!! Another clue. That's great. Wonder why they decided to leave the guns..............

oceanblueeyes
06-12-2008, 09:11 PM
DH says that if its an open field its possible to hear but who knows. He said if its alot of trees ect you may have a harder time to hear.

Since this was Sunday and it seems that firing weapons at targets was the norm most likely the people that live around there have learned to tune it out.

It is like someone living close to an airport. At first all the noise drives them crazy but the longer they condition themselves to it they don't even pay attention anymore to the noise.

imo

concernedperson
06-12-2008, 09:11 PM
Two guns were found at the scene?
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/services/newspaper/printedition/thursday/orl-usnews12_108jun12,0,5090185.story

Let's hope they are registered to someone.

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 09:11 PM
I was wondering abt Taylors cellphone, found this:

When they didn't return and could not be reached by cell phone, Peter Placker (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Peter+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON) went looking for them and found the bodies. He called 911 using Taylor's phone.

I am assuming she had the cellphone with her.


Is this right.

michelle
06-12-2008, 09:12 PM
Since this was Sunday and it seems that firing weapons at targets was the norm most likely the people that live around there have learned to tune it out.

It is like someone living close to an airport. At first all the noise drives them crazy but the longer they condition themselves to it they don't even pay attention anymore to the noise.

imo
Yup that is true, maybe they thought it was a Hunter.
So 2 guns were found?

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 09:12 PM
michelle:

There is a lot of foliage in the area where the girls were found. It was not an open field.

michelle
06-12-2008, 09:13 PM
I was wondering abt Taylors cellphone, found this:

When they didn't return and could not be reached by cell phone, Peter Placker (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Peter+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON) went looking for them and found the bodies. He called 911 using Taylor's phone.

I am assuming she had the cellphone with her.


Is this right.
Yes they said he used her cell phone, that means he had to get it from her body right? What will that do to potential evidence?

michelle
06-12-2008, 09:13 PM
michelle:

There is a lot of foliage in the area where the girls were found. It was not an open field.
Thanks

txsvicki
06-12-2008, 09:16 PM
more demographics for comparison:
*fewer people per square mile than in many apartment complexes
*not as many houses in the whole town as many subdivisions
*a high percentage of residents who have paid-off mortgages


Houses: 450 (368 occupied: 264 owner occupied, 104 renter occupied)


% of renters here: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif 28%State: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif 32%

Housing density: 650 houses/condos per square mile

Median price asked for vacant for-sale houses and condos in 2000: $27,500



Median rent asked for vacant for-rent units in 2000: $117



Median gross rent in Weleetka, OK in 2000: $242



Housing units in Weleetka with a mortgage: 100 (6 second mortgage, 7 home equity loan, 0 both second mortgage and home equity loan)
Houses without a mortgage: 116


If this horrible crime hadn't happened, this sounds like the right price range and school size of a place that I would love to move to.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 09:17 PM
Pair of guns found near girls' bodies, investigators say

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/services/newspaper/printedition/thursday/orl-usnews12_108jun12,0,5090185.storyThis story is incorrect, I believe. It was compiled from wire reports and they got it wrong. They are the only outlet stating it and since it is Orlando...I don't buy it.

oceanblueeyes
06-12-2008, 09:17 PM
Yes they said he used her cell phone, that means he had to get it from her body right? What will that do to potential evidence?

I don't think it will hurt anything. The phone was not accessed by either child anyway. There is plenty of forensic evidence there at the scene because the grandfather wouldn't let anyone get close to it. That is the good thing.

imoo

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 09:19 PM
Yes they said he used her cell phone, that means he had to get it from her body right? What will that do to potential evidence?If she was carrying it in her hand, it would have probably been laying beside her or on the road. I doubt her grandfather went through her pockets to find it.

Ezekiel
06-12-2008, 09:20 PM
Do I have this right? The girls spent the night at the grandfather/dad's house the night before. The girls left at 5pm and were found at 5:40 pm. They had been dead approximately 15 minutes and someone saw them during this time walking. The grandfather/dad touched one of them to get the phone, but he didn't see any vehicle on the road that he could identify. Just seems like such a very narrow window of time! I live in a rural area too but one is still always aware of gunshots, especially at least 4 shots fired within 300 years of my home.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 09:20 PM
And, MAYBE, there really isn't a witness.... maybe LE is just staying that to try to get the killers rattled and say or do something stupid. Just a thought..............No, I think there really is a witness. They would not risk their credibility in such a way.

txsvicki
06-12-2008, 09:20 PM
Pair of guns found near girls' bodies, investigators say

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/services/newspaper/printedition/thursday/orl-usnews12_108jun12,0,5090185.story


The title of the article doesn't match what is said. Not a word about two guns being found, just that two were used in the murder. I wonder if this is a mistake?

noZme
06-12-2008, 09:22 PM
someone asked earlier about the water level at bad creek. per usgs most streams in that ares are "above normal" to "much above normal"

click link below & move mouse across map
http://water.usgs.gov/waterwatch/?m=real&r=ok (http://water.usgs.gov/waterwatch/?m=real&r=ok)

envoy thanks for reposting that picture link.

noZme
06-12-2008, 09:24 PM
Pair of guns found near girls' bodies, investigators say

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/services/newspaper/printedition/thursday/orl-usnews12_108jun12,0,5090185.story

misleading title to article... somebody will get chewed out for that!

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 09:25 PM
Do I have this right? The girls spent the night at the grandfather/dad's house the night before. The girls left at 5pm and were found at 5:40 pm. They had been dead approximately 15 minutes and someone saw them during this time walking. The grandfather/dad touched one of them to get the phone, but he didn't see any vehicle on the road that he could identify. Just seems like such a very narrow window of time! I live in a rural area too but one is still always aware of gunshots, especially at least 4 shots fired within 300 yards of my home.They were found closer to 5:25-5:30pm. The bridge was a local place where kids often took their rifles to shoot so gunshots were nothing out of the norm. I don't think he touched the girls and he prevented others from disturbing the scene, too. He probably found the cell phone on the ground and did use it call for help immediately.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 09:25 PM
I was thinking about the girls walking habits. Since Taylor lived on the west side of County Line Rd, I doubt they were in the habit of crossing the street to walk with traffic as folks in the city are taught. I bet they just started walking from their side of the street. So, they would be against traffic, if that is correct.

If a person passed them within minutes of their being shot, (again I don't know how LE can deduce that unless the witness did indeed report seeing another car nearby on one side or the other of the girls) I wonder if they were going north or south.

LE's not mentioning what direction the girls were traveling is interesting. I would think that there would be more traffic going north to south because the interstate is that way (the County Line Rd does cross under I-40, but there is not an exit there), the small community of Bryant is just about 2 miles east on 1120, and Henryetta is to the northeast.

So, I am thinking they left going north, but on the west side of the road, probably more in the middle as indicated. The witness was going north to south and would have gotten a good view of the girls, as the moved over to the edge of the road. He had probably passed the criminals around the bridge either pulled over to the side of the road or he did pass them.

I guess it may be possible that the witness was going south to north though toward the more urban part of that area, I-40, Henryetta, etc. and saw the perps on the other side of the road as they were going south. I wonder if the witness' car spooked the people and they tore off down the road and the girls just scared them.

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 09:25 PM
Its possible the cellphone had been dropped on the road, thus being found leading him to look towards the canal.
These girls met Satan and possibly his twin. I can see the phone being dropped.
They made them stand there and shot them to compare their guns to see which was better the automatic or the slower gun. Shells piled on the road.
i would still be looking for someone with a history of killing animals.

Also the area does look desirable. You can get a house for 53,000 built in 05 on 5 acres.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 09:26 PM
misleading title to article... somebody will get chewed out for that!They should get fired instead of chewed out. First rule of thumb is to check your facts.

oceanblueeyes
06-12-2008, 09:27 PM
They were found closer to 5:25-5:30pm. The bridge was a local place where kids often took their rifles to shoot so gunshots were nothing out of the norm. I don't think he touched the girls and he prevented others from disturbing the scene, too. He probably found the cell phone on the ground and did use it call for help immediately.

Imo, he had no choice. He certainly wasn't going to leave them where they lay to go call.

imo

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 09:27 PM
SS:


This story is incorrect, I believe. It was compiled from wire reports and they got it wrong. They are the only outlet stating it and since it is Orlando...I don't buy it.
__________________


Can you elaborate further on your statement??

Is it the news source that you don't believe in or the fact that this is the only news source so far that has said this?

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 09:32 PM
I was thinking about the girls walking habits. Since Taylor lived on the west side of County Line Rd, I doubt they were in the habit of crossing the street to walk with traffic as folks in the city are taught. I bet they just started walking from their side of the street. So, they would be against traffic, if that is correct.

If a person passed them within minutes of their being shot, (again I don't know how LE can deduce that unless the witness did indeed report seeing another car nearby on one side or the other of the girls) I wonder if they were going north or south.

LE's not mentioning what direction the girls were traveling is interesting. I would think that there would be more traffic going north to south because the interstate is that way (the County Line Rd does cross under I-40, but there is not an exit there), the small community of Bryant is just about 2 miles east on 1120, and Henryetta is to the northeast.

So, I am thinking they left going north, but on the west side of the road, probably more in the middle as indicated. The witness was going north to south and would have gotten a good view of the girls, as the moved over to the edge of the road. He had probably passed the criminals around the bridge either pulled over to the side of the road or he did pass them.

I guess it may be possible that the witness was going south to north though toward the more urban part of that area, I-40, Henryetta, etc. and saw the perps on the other side of the road as they were going south. I wonder if the witness' car spooked the people and they tore off down the road and the girls just scared them.They do know what direction the girls were going. They were returning from the bridge going South along the West side of the road. Normally, people will walk on the right side both ways not against traffic, but with the flow of the traffic. Of course, not much traffic does mean they could be more in the middle to avoid the weeds.

"Moments before" to me means the witness saw them walking and saw the car approaching the victims. Since he did not see the shooting, the girls were shot right after he was out of sight.

chiperoni
06-12-2008, 09:37 PM
It would be very natural to pick up a phone if it was visible. I'm sure he wanted to get help right away. The tragic scene had to so shocking for him that he must have been on automatic pilot.

michelle
06-12-2008, 09:39 PM
It would be very natural to pick up a phone if it was visible. I'm sure he wanted to get help right away. The tragic scene had to so shocking for him that he must have been on automatic pilot.
I agree.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 09:43 PM
I think the grandfather did what most would do and his first thought would be to "save" the girls. Leaving them and going back to the house to call if he saw a phone would be out of the question in my mind.

kahskye
06-12-2008, 09:43 PM
I agree.

Me too! I just can't imagine him walking up and seeing the girls. His life is forever changed, as are many others.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 09:44 PM
They do know what direction the girls were going. They were returning from the bridge going South along the West side of the road.

I did see the article where they were found on the west side and the initial article where they said they were walking back that way. I don't think they went all the way to the bridge because of the time frame. Something made them return back home, perhaps the perps. But something also made them turn back around to face them as they came from the north if they were returning home.

I don't see all this happening if the perps came from the south. I think they were shot sooner in their walk rather than later. As I explained before, I have reasons for believing one scenario over another (thrill kill v. drug/gang related).

Something LE isn't releasing makes them believe it was local and I'm trying to determine what that something might be.

OrdinaryLife
06-12-2008, 09:44 PM
They do know what direction the girls were going. They were returning from the bridge going South along the West side of the road. Normally, people will walk on the right side both ways not against traffic, but with the flow of the traffic. Of course, not much traffic does mean they could be more in the middle to avoid the weeds.

"Moments before" to me means the witness saw them walking and saw the car approaching the victims. Since he did not see the shooting, the girls were shot right after he was out of sight.

I humbly disagree with the walking. It has always been taught (in this part of the country anyway) to walk against the traffic so that you see who is approaching and they see you.

Now, this was a dirt road and not normally used for constant traffic. So given that, both angels could have been walking as they chose to on this road. I'm still of the thought they walked on the left against traffic. I believe there is a picture of flowers on one side of the road and a car is parked on the right. It would be helpful for discussion if we knew which way it appeared they were walking before being shot. It would give us all a better idea which way the vehicle was being driven. I hope LE shares that little tidbit.

Littledeer
06-12-2008, 09:45 PM
They do know what direction the girls were going. They were returning from the bridge going South along the West side of the road. Normally, people will walk on the right side both ways not against traffic, but with the flow of the traffic. Of course, not much traffic does mean they could be more in the middle to avoid the weeds.

How has it been determined that the girls had been at the bridge and were then returning from it??

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 09:51 PM
http://www.legacy.com/OKLAHOMAN/GB/GuestbookEntry.aspx?&PersonID=111261323

Taylors guestbook.

noZme
06-12-2008, 09:53 PM
They should get fired instead of chewed out. First rule of thumb is to check your facts.


it's a timely reminder that people who write news stories are not infallible. we should never take reports as gospel truth.

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 09:54 PM
http://www.legacy.com/OKLAHOMAN/GB/GuestbookView.aspx?PersonId=111261343

Skyla's guestbook.

oceanblueeyes
06-12-2008, 09:56 PM
They do know what direction the girls were going. They were returning from the bridge going South along the West side of the road. Normally, people will walk on the right side both ways not against traffic, but with the flow of the traffic. Of course, not much traffic does mean they could be more in the middle to avoid the weeds.

"Moments before" to me means the witness saw them walking and saw the car approaching the victims. Since he did not see the shooting, the girls were shot right after he was out of sight.

So do they have eye witnesses that saw them at the bridge? Peter Placker said the girls were killed within 20-25 minutes after they were last seen and then found.

Would they have time to go a mile to the bridge and then turn around and come 3/4 of a mile on the way back in 20 to 25 minutes?

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 09:56 PM
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5037169&page=1

Interesting tidbit: near a known trash dumping site

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/10/national/main4168258.shtml?source=mostpop_story

Discusses them being found "near" the bridge. It doesn't look near to me.

I can't find the article where it does say initially that they were returning from the bridge.

Ezekiel
06-12-2008, 10:03 PM
I agree too. I would have picked up the phone too. Probably wouldn't have had to. 911would have heard me screaming miles away! Just trying to get the facts straight.

So now the time is down to: 1) they left at 5 pm and were found around 5:25 pm.
2) they walked about 5/10-6/10 mile - took at least
10 minutes
3) grandfather walked to where they were - took him
about the same amt of time
4) they had been dead about 15 minutes
5) someone passed them while they were still alive
but prior to the grandfather walking down the road
6) the shooters did their handiwork

Just such a small time frame to make such a big decision to KILL two girls within 300 yards of a house, their house, and get away cleanly!

Annie
06-12-2008, 10:03 PM
http://www.legacy.com/OKLAHOMAN/GB/GuestbookView.aspx?PersonId=111261343

Skyla's guestbook.

I looked at the photo album on this site. I don't understand why these pictures are posted instead of some pictures of the beautiful little girl in recent days. It seemed strange to me.

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 10:07 PM
Its possible they were running.I just don't understand if they were frightened by something why they didn't call home right away.

oceanblueeyes
06-12-2008, 10:09 PM
I looked at the photo album on this site. I don't understand why these pictures are posted instead of some pictures of the beautiful little girl in recent days. It seemed strange to me.

Maybe the first picture is Skyla as a little baby.

Maybe the second one is because she loved clowns and had one at her birthday party one year.

Just guessing........

Many times the funeral home will set up these sites.

imoo

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:10 PM
I don't know why you guys are so confused on the direction the girls were walking.

"Their bodies were found along the west side of County Line Road, about three-fourths of a mile north of Coleman Road, the sheriff said."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...1_hThetw874180

Ross said shell casings were found at the scene, as well as tire tracks and footprints. Ross would not release the caliber of the gun believed to have been used in the shooting. The girls had walked to a bridge along the dirt road, which is a popular gathering place for residents in the rural county, which is about 90 miles east of Oklahoma City.

http://www.newsok.com/clues-sought-in-slaying-of-girls-in-weleetka/article/3255420/undefined?pg=1

noZme
06-12-2008, 10:10 PM
I humbly disagree with the walking. It has always been taught (in this part of the country anyway) to walk against the traffic so that you see who is approaching and they see you.

Now, this was a dirt road and not normally used for constant traffic. So given that, both angels could have been walking as they chose to on this road. .......

just to reiterate for the sake of safety. i was taught to walk against the traffic flow, in order to be facing vehicles closer to you. also, bikes should be ridden with the traffic, obeying rules such as red lights & signaling turns.

the above does not really apply to country roads. i am working on the assumption that one of the 1st steps in this investigation would to be to track footprints and tire marks. i guarantee law enforcement knows if the girls stood around talking to the driver & whether the girls were fleeing when shot. but that info will not come out until trial.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 10:13 PM
So now the time is down to: 1) they left at 5 pm and were found around 5:25 pm.
2) they walked about 5/10-6/10 mile - took at least
10 minutes
3) grandfather walked to where they were - took him
about the same amt of time
4) they had been dead about 15 minutes
5) someone passed them while they were still alive
but prior to the grandfather walking down the road
6) the shooters did their handiwork


Actually it varies by news article account.

Most say they left around 5 pm

The bridge was about 3/4 mile from Taylor's house. We don't know, except for an early article that they went all the way to the bridge.

At some point, Skyla's mother calls to say she is coming to pick them up.

Attempts to reach the cell phone to tell the girls to come home are unanswered.

At some point, a witness states seeing the girls walking on the road.

Grandfather starts walking north to see if they are all right.

Finds them and calls 911 from the cellphone. I have seen more than two but less than ten articles that state that the 911 call was at 5:40 or 5:41 p.m.

Skyla's mother comes north down the road and is intercepted by grandfather who won't let her proceed. LE authorities have not arrived yet.

Have seen several articles referring to the fact that the girls were only gone 20-25 minutes.

So, for sure this all occurred at least within 40 minutes 5:00 p.m. to 5:40 p.m.

The 5:20-5:25 referral may have something to do when the witness saw them.

LE is not reporting what direction (north v. south) they think the shooters were when the girls were shot.

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 10:14 PM
I looked at the photo album on this site. I don't understand why these pictures are posted instead of some pictures of the beautiful little girl in recent days. It seemed strange to me.

Anyone can post pictures to the guestbook. It appears guests have posted their pictures.

oceanblueeyes
06-12-2008, 10:16 PM
I don't know why you guys are so confused on the direction the girls were walking.

"Their bodies were found along the west side of County Line Road, about three-fourths of a mile north of Coleman Road, the sheriff said."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...1_hThetw874180

Ross said shell casings were found at the scene, as well as tire tracks and footprints. Ross would not release the caliber of the gun believed to have been used in the shooting. The girls had walked to a bridge along the dirt road, which is a popular gathering place for residents in the rural county, which is about 90 miles east of Oklahoma City.

http://www.newsok.com/clues-sought-in-slaying-of-girls-in-weleetka/article/3255420/undefined?pg=1

I am not trying to be difficult SS but I think this is a newspaper putting their own spin on it. Ross' statement is not in quotes.

Also this too is wrong:
Taylor's grandfather, Peter Placker, found the girls about of a mile from their home after the girls went for a walk Sunday evening and didn't return. Placker went looking for the girls after Taylor couldn't be reached on her cell phone. Placker used Taylor's cell phone to place a 911call, Ross said.

I am not sure which side of the road they were on explains which way they were going.

JMO tho.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:17 PM
Weleetka has long been the type of place folks moved to escape many of the evils of the world. But townspeople said methamphetamine use - a particular scourge in small-town Oklahoma and elsewhere in the nation's heartland - has gotten bad around here, and crime is up.

"You think you're safe anywhere, but you're not. All the thugs is moving out here, too," said Skyla's grandfather, Jimmie Farrow. "It's a whole new ballgame."

~snip~

"It just went downhill out in the country," he said. "These roads ain't nothing but drunks and dopeheads on the weekends. Sometimes, you have to drive around them, they're passed out in the middle of the road."

Mosher said drugs may have played a role in the death of his niece and her girlfriend.

"The girls might have walked up on some guys cooking dope," he said. "There's been more of that stuff going on here in the past two years."

A neighbor, Ross Padgett, said drugs and the criminal element are worse than ever.

"Marijuana, meth, coke, you name it," he said. "A number of the meth cookers are right over in this community. They are busting them so hard in the cities, they are going rural." He lifted his shirt to reveal a 9 mm pistol, saying, "I'm not worried."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/10/national/main4168258.shtml

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 10:19 PM
I don't know why you guys are so confused on the direction the girls were walking.

"Their bodies were found along the west side of County Line Road, about three-fourths of a mile north of Coleman Road, the sheriff said."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...1_hThetw874180

Ross said shell casings were found at the scene, as well as tire tracks and footprints. Ross would not release the caliber of the gun believed to have been used in the shooting. The girls had walked to a bridge along the dirt road, which is a popular gathering place for residents in the rural county, which is about 90 miles east of Oklahoma City.

http://www.newsok.com/clues-sought-in-slaying-of-girls-in-weleetka/article/3255420/undefined?pg=1

West side of the road doesn't clarify whether the girls were headed to the bridge or away from it. However, IIRC, Wednesdays presser stated something about this.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 10:19 PM
I don't know why you guys are so confused on the direction the girls were walking.

I think because the articles are confused. In the one you cited, it was reported the girls were found about a mile north of their house, when we know know it was 300 yards.

The early reports seem to be based on scant information that has since been suggested was not correct.

To me, it's not a matter of being confused, but of putting all the facts together and believing that the girls could not have walked to the bridge and back, which by Yahoo maps estimates is 3/4 mile away, which puts a 1.5 mile trip within 20-25 minutes.

To me, it's not feasible. To me, it is feasible that they would walk north on the that side of the street. To me, it is feasible to ask if they were walking south, how they turned around to face the shooters driving from the north (since the shooters coming from the south just doesn't make a lick of sense).

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:22 PM
I am not sure which side of the road they were on explains which way they were going.

JMO tho.My point was that they have footprints to determine the girls were on their way back from the bridge. Every quote from Rosser or anyone else in LE has stated they were on the return trip. I don't think either side makes any difference. I don't get the point and why it is confusing to anyone. They may have walked down the middle both ways...it really doesn't matter. They were heading south towards Taylor's house when they were shot.

They also now have an eyewitness that would tell LE which way they were heading to further their contention they were on the way home.

oceanblueeyes
06-12-2008, 10:24 PM
just to reiterate for the sake of safety. i was taught to walk against the traffic flow, in order to be facing vehicles closer to you. also, bikes should be ridden with the traffic, obeying rules such as red lights & signaling turns.

the above does not really apply to country roads. i am working on the assumption that one of the 1st steps in this investigation would to be to track footprints and tire marks. i guarantee law enforcement knows if the girls stood around talking to the driver & whether the girls were fleeing when shot. but that info will not come out until trial.

In our rural areas most walk on the edge of the dirt road or shoulder (ditch it is called in this case). There is no set pattern. Many times they will crossover to the other side of the road if it is not as grown up with vegetation. So in the South there is no written rule but people tend to walk where they want to walk for various reasons. I don't know if the people in OK only walk in one set pattern when they are walking down county dirt roads though but I wouldn't think so. Especially kids.

imoo

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 10:25 PM
Maybe they didn't walk all the way to the bridge. If these murderers were driving from the direction of Taylors house perhaps they harassed the girls on the way by and the girls decided to turn back to the house, but weren't frightened enough to call home because the car/truck kept going. Then the truck turns around say at the bridge and comes back towards them, and the rest is history.

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 10:28 PM
I know in my area the kids have sidewalk allergies. We have paved roads and sidewalks and the kids walk down the middle of the road. (It must not be cool to walk on a sidewalk) Then they flip you off when you toot your horn at them to move out of the way. I apologize for the rant....

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:30 PM
In Oklahoma, I always prefer the middle of the road because of snakes and tarantulas.

oceanblueeyes
06-12-2008, 10:30 PM
My point was that they have footprints to determine the girls were on their way back from the bridge. Every quote from Rosser or anyone else in LE has stated they were on the return trip. I don't think either side makes any difference. I don't get the point and why it is confusing to anyone. They may have walked down the middle both ways...it really doesn't matter. They were heading south towards Taylor's house when they were shot.


They may have been on that side of the road but have they released the position of the bodies? How they are facing and laying in the ditch would be relevant wouldn't it?

I could have sworn that one of the LE on Greta said they did not reach the bridge. I think it is confusing when information is not consistent.

Could they have walked 1 and 3/4 miles in such a short length of time?

Since the grandfather saw no one around it had to be at least 5 minutes earlier maybe more, I would think..... that would make the time line as short as 15 minutes.

imoo

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 10:32 PM
Okay, I am also trying to explain the being shot in the chest. Perhaps the shooters drove from the north and did a U-turn AFTER passing the girls (the news reports state that tracks indicate a U-turn near where they were found, but does it actually state or did we assume it was behind the girls?) so that they were going north and shot the girls as they passed them.

It does make a little more sense since we are pretty sure that these people saw the girls and definitely wanted them dead.

I was assuming they came from the north, stopped, did something to make the girls face them, then shot them. Then they did the U-turn.

But, they could have passed the girls, did the U-turn, never even having to address the girls and just started firing at them while going north. it saves them from having to turn around after the crime; they are already facing their get away.

Again, this is assuming they approached from the north, which to me makes more sense, but the could have approached from the south.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:32 PM
Wow! Greta just said that the OSBI agent that was scheduled to be there had to renege because he was chasing down some HOT leads this evening!!

OrdinaryLife
06-12-2008, 10:32 PM
My point was that they have footprints to determine the girls were on their way back from the bridge. Every quote from Rosser or anyone else in LE has stated they were on the return trip. I don't think either side makes any difference. I don't get the point and why it is confusing to anyone. They may have walked down the middle both ways...it really doesn't matter. They were heading south towards Taylor's house when they were shot.

They also now have an eyewitness that would tell LE which way they were heading to further their contention they were on the way home.

For me the direction (and/or side of the road) has importance concerning which way the vehicle was traveling on the road they were walking and where they were shot.

I don''t think it's confusion at all. It's part of putting pieces together of this shooting.

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 10:34 PM
Wow! Greta just said that the OSBI agent that was scheduled to be there had to renig because he was chasing down some HOT leads this evening!!

Cool!

oceanblueeyes
06-12-2008, 10:35 PM
Wow! Greta just said that the OSBI agent that was scheduled to be there had to renig because he was chasing down some HOT leads this evening!!


Oh my!!!!!!!!! Great News!

Thanks so much SS! I hope they are breathing down their necks now.:furious:

imoo

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:37 PM
Wow. Skyla's grandmother just described the shots on her. One in the arm, one near the collarbone, some in her legs, and one under the chin which came out the top of her head. (This was on Greta just now which means we will have the transcript later.) She said she moved the cloth they had on her to see for herself when she arrived with the father (James) to the scene.

She also said that Skyla's mother was driving to the house when she saw the grandfather waving his arms to flag her down a quarter of a mile up the road...indicating she was coming from the South and was at their driveway.

strach304
06-12-2008, 10:38 PM
There was another poster here that remembered the case from a few years ago where the little girl was murdered because she came across a meth lab. LE got the guy that did it but who knows if the child even knew what it was that she saw. I think she was about 9.

I don't get the impression from the way these girls were killed that they happened on a drug user or drug exchange that brought on such a horrific murder. My scenario is more along the lines of the girls walking on that road and happened across a car pulled over where an execution was taking place in those woods. Out they come and see the girls. Falls in line with the way they were killed.

Hopefully the witness that says he saw the girls would notice a pulled over vehicle as well. No reason to get a license tag at that point but can give a description of the car. I hope LE really combs that area for signs of blood somewhere else belonging to someone else.

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 10:39 PM
I hope their putting handcuffs on this pieces of crap as we speak. Or better yet in a shoot out with them that leaves them dead.:furious:

Beyond Belief
06-12-2008, 10:41 PM
Under her chin? omg

anneinchicago
06-12-2008, 10:42 PM
Also watching Greta. Skyler's grandmother did describe the shots, but also said there was a spread over Skyler (both?). I wonder and I know it's trivial, where the spread came from.

And, yes. Skyler was shot in the upper left arm below the shoulder, one on the right arm (I think), the hollow of her throat and under her chin which came out the top of her head. She also thought there were some on her legs.I had the impression she pretty much only looked at her granddaughter's upper body.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 10:44 PM
So, it sounds that Skyla's head wound, the insurance shot was done after she had fallen to the ground, which means they probably got out of the car and approached them, or where very good shots.

I'm starting to agree with SS more that it was some sort of gang thing. Experience, that many shots so close to the house=silencer, etc. The girls had to be shut up for sure, shut up fast, and shut up quietly. Poor things.

I hope the DNA they refer to isn't just prints from the casings but also cigarette butts. Saliva is good DNA stuff.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:45 PM
I would have to assume that grandfather called for his wife to come with the gauze and blankets which Skyla's grandmother mentioned. Remember...he was still in trying to save them mode.

Yes, she did say the mother mentioned the shots to the legs.

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 10:47 PM
IMO, Sounds like the girls were sprayed with bullets. These sounds like wounds from a drive by or someone from a distance.

strach304
06-12-2008, 10:47 PM
I hope their putting handcuffs on this pieces of crap as we speak. Or better yet in a shoot out with them that leaves them dead.:furious:


We can hope. Miracles do happen :bang:

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:48 PM
The DNA evidence mentioned earlier was in reference to what was actually on the girls' bodies.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:52 PM
IMO, Sounds like the girls were sprayed with bullets. These sounds like wounds from a drive by or someone from a distance.Doesn't sound like from a distance to me if they put one under the chin and it went out the top of her head. Had to be right up on her out of the vehicle, imo. It also sounds like they shot every part of her. I would guess the one in the left shoulder was meant for the other arm. Very deliberate and darn good shots. Skyla was a tiny girl whose arms and legs were not easy targets.

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 10:52 PM
Hmmmm, the shot under the chin through the head doesn't sound like an insurance shot to me. Unless the bullet entered through the top and out the chin.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 10:53 PM
Were they handled then, or maybe spat upon afterwards.


It does sound like the leg wounds might have been at a distance, to stop the girls in their tracks. It does sound like they were definitely facing the shooters though, which means they had to turn around or the shooters came from the south.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:54 PM
Why, Suzi? To me, it is absolutely a shot to finish her off without any doubt. Ergo..insurance shot. Under the chin and upwards is an execution shot.

strach304
06-12-2008, 10:55 PM
I wondered if she meant spray of bullets too but not knowing the terminology said spread.

I know DD now mostly carry 9mm's but what's up with the.22? I had a friend whose exbf was a dd and they put three bullets in his head with a .22 and he lived. Maybe that is significant. A code to them of some sort?

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 10:56 PM
A semi automatic would do exactly what was described. It would be interesting to know which guns made which shots. Such as was the same gun used at close range for the head shots. And a different gun made the body shots.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 10:56 PM
Wow. Skyla's grandmother just described the shots on her. One in the arm, one near the collarbone, some in her legs, and one under the chin which came out the top of her head. (This was on Greta just now which means we will have the transcript later.) She said she moved the cloth they had on her to see for herself when she arrived with the father (James) to the scene.

She also said that Skyla's mother was driving to the house when she saw the grandfather waving his arms to flag her down a quarter of a mile up the road...indicating she was coming from the South and was at their driveway.

Very interesting! The spokeswoman on Nancy Grace did NOT want to reveal the angle of the shots.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 10:57 PM
Hmmmm, the shot under the chin through the head doesn't sound like an insurance shot to me. Unless the bullet entered through the top and out the chin.

Isn't that how most people commit suicide though? The bullet travels, and sorry explodes through the jaw, sure to leave a large exit wound in the back of the head?

If you want to ensure someone is dead, either yourself or someone else, a shot to the chin angled upward is a guarantee. That's why I think this shot was the last one and done when Skyla was already on the ground, lying face up. You stand over the body, perpendicular with the knees and shoot 45 degrees to the ground aiming at the chin. Sorry for the graphic description.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 10:57 PM
Were they handled then, or maybe spat upon afterwards.

It does sound like the leg wounds might have been at a distance, to stop the girls in their tracks. It does sound like they were definitely facing the shooters though, which means they had to turn around or the shooters came from the south.They have already said the girls were shot in the front. I assume they were facing the other side of the road (East) and the shooters who were near or in the vehicle.

CarpeDiem
06-12-2008, 10:59 PM
I know in my area the kids have sidewalk allergies.

LOL, that's funny. Here too, unless they are on their skateboards or bikes. :waitasec:

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 10:59 PM
Why, Suzi? To me, it is absolutely a shot to finish her off without any doubt. Ergo..insurance shot. Under the chin and upwards is an execution shot.

It could be. I just don't think of an insurance shot being from under the chin. I think of them as back of the head, behind the ear or forehead.

OrdinaryLife
06-12-2008, 10:59 PM
I would have to assume that grandfather called for his wife to come with the gauze and blankets which Skyla's grandmother mentioned. Remember...he was still in trying to save them mode.

Yes, she did say the mother mentioned the shots to the legs.

I thought the grandfather only called 911? Call the grandmother for gauze and blankets? I do not remember reading that at all and it would have disturbed the scene. I believe he kept people away from the scene, if I remember correctly, until LE arrived.

I apologize if I missed that info. Have a link? TIA!

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 11:01 PM
Isn't that how most people commit suicide though? The bullet travels, and sorry explodes through the jaw, sure to leave a large exit wound in the back of the head?

If you want to ensure someone is dead, either yourself or someone else, a shot to the chin angled upward is a guarantee. That's why I think this shot was the last one and done when Skyla was already on the ground, lying face up. You stand over the body, perpendicular with the knees and shoot 45 degrees to the ground aiming at the chin. Sorry for the graphic description.

I really have no clue. Just not familiar with that angle with executions. God, I hope those little girls didn't experience what I bolded.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 11:02 PM
I assume they were facing the other side of the road (East) and the shooters who were near or in the vehicle.

Why the need for a U-turn then if the girls were facing east? A simple drive by is good enough, except if they did approach from the north and know that Taylor lived to the south; they wouldn't want to risk passing by the house and getting recognized.

I assumed they were going south and had to turn 180 back toward the shooters. But, I see that your supposition is a good one too.

It just shows how much of our own bias we take into these posts.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 11:03 PM
It will be on Greta's transcripts here in a bit. Skyla's grandmother said there was a piece of gauze covering the wound on her arm and sort of a blanket or cloth was covering her body when she saw it.

I only assume it could be where the gauze and a cloth came from. Where else if not from Taylor's grandmother's house and the grandmother since the grandfather didn't leave that we know of?

OrdinaryLife
06-12-2008, 11:04 PM
Very interesting! The spokeswoman on Nancy Grace did NOT want to reveal the angle of the shots.

Yeah, I heard that as well. Very interesting. It would great to hear what the angles were. And, how close the shots were.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 11:05 PM
It will be on Greta's transcripts here in a bit. Skyla's grandmother said there was a piece of gauze covering the wound on her arm and sort of a blanket or cloth was covering her body when she saw it.

I only assume it could be where the gauze and a cloth came from. Where else if not from Taylor's grandmother's house and the grandmother since the grandfather didn't leave that we know of?

Skylar's mother came upon the scene just after Taylor's grandfather found the bodies. She called Skylar's grandparents. By the time they got there, paramedics were already there, hence gauze, etc.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 11:07 PM
Why the need for a U-turn then if the girls were facing east? A simple drive by is good enough, except if they did approach from the north and know that Taylor lived to the south; they wouldn't want to risk passing by the house and getting recognized.

I assumed they were going south and had to turn 180 back toward the shooters. But, I see that your supposition is a good one too.

It just shows how much of our own bias we take into these posts.The fact their bodies ended up in the weeds on the side of the road tells me they fell backwards if they were shot in the front meaning they had to be facing east. If not, they would have ended up in the road. They were left where they fell according to LE.

txsvicki
06-12-2008, 11:09 PM
Maybe Sklya's grandmother was there until all was clear for her to be able to identify the body or to be allowed to look at the little girl. If the clothes were not in place and the wounds were so visible it must have been after the girls were checked to see if they could be saved.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 11:10 PM
Skylar's mother came upon the scene just after Taylor's grandfather found the bodies. She called Skylar's grandparents. By the time they got there, paramedics were already there, hence gauze, etc.Ah, thanks! Guess I missed that part. I was probably in shock at what she was saying about then. Wow again. Guess that cat is out of the bag for LE now.

EnvoyDriver61
06-12-2008, 11:13 PM
Then, given that scenario, what DNA would be on the girl's bodies?

It is strange that the scenario you describe could have probably been seen from Taylor's house (when standing in the street) IF the raw video shown today was from Taylor's house. You could see in the distance the white truck which looked to be about the distance the bodies were from the house.

Also, with your scenario, you are assuming the girls were standing on the side of the road when all shots were fired, including the head shot. That would have to be a fairly low riding car, or the shot would have to be from a distance to go through Skyla's chin and out her skull.

OrdinaryLife
06-12-2008, 11:13 PM
Skylar's mother came upon the scene just after Taylor's grandfather found the bodies. She called Skylar's grandparents. By the time they got there, paramedics were already there, hence gauze, etc.

That makes more sense, completely. Paramedics trying to do their job. Thanks, Steadfast.

STEADFAST
06-12-2008, 11:13 PM
Maybe Sklya's grandmother was there until all was clear for her to be able to identify the body or to be allowed to look at the little girl. If the clothes were not in place and the wounds were so visible it must have been after the girls were checked to see if they could be saved.

You're right, tv.

FARROW: Well, Sunday afternoon. My daughter was the second person to arrive on the scene. And the daddy of Taylor wouldn't let her near Skyla. And she called us at our home, and we flew over there to see about her because we knew something was drastically wrong. So it was Sunday afternoon, probably 5:20.

and

FARROW: Actually, I didn't see her. I'd seen her body. Her body was covered. And I never got any closer than 50 feet to her. They wouldn't let me any closer.
So I knew they were there. I knew where they were laying. The girls were five feet apart from each other. So I knew that whoever killed them, it had to be more than one person. There's no way they could have had time to put one gun up and grab another gun and shoot the other girl without her running at least 25 feet away.
So I knew that it had to be two people that killed them. But they wouldn`t let me close enough to her.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 11:21 PM
If they were standing over the girls laying down, it could be hair or sweat. Or they had grabbed them at one point. They most likely were at very close range or up against the skin for the shot under the chin.

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 11:25 PM
So now Farrow is saying she did finally see the body because she talked about moving the cloth and looking at the different wounds. I guess Greta asked better questions than Nancy did. Anyone know how long it takes Greta to post her transcripts?

Reannan
06-12-2008, 11:40 PM
I have spent the last hour or so trying to catch up on this horrible case. Those poor girls! I just can't believe gunshots were not heard since the crime scene is so close to the house. I can see a scenario where someone who knows one or the other of the girls, and who wants them dead, would be willing to become familiar with their routine, visit the area during the hours of the routine, and "surprise" the girls. At this point, I can see even a single person pulling a weapon and firing rapidly so that they were immediately incapacitated. Rapid change of weapons would allow for the secondary shots, even from the same shooter. I would be willing to bet that the leg/arm wounds were initial and the under the chin wound was delivered at close range - perhaps by the same person. If a single person committed this crime, they knew the child intimately, and they wanted at least one of them dead. What better way to make it look random than to kill a friend at the same time; and use two weapons??

Reannan
06-12-2008, 11:42 PM
OK....I just read my post, and I have to immediately ask forgiveness to the family of these girls. You just have to think family in these cases becasue we see it over and over and over. This crime doesn't "feel" right to me for a random killing, but it sure doesn't have the usual marks of "missing persons report", etc. of a targeted killing. I am just confused!

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 11:44 PM
Video at the below link shows close up of equipment used by OSBI today. The reporter talks about "some forensic evidence" taken from the scene. Not sure if he means more located today.

http://www.news9.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=2587012&at1=Station 2&h1=Investigators not ruling out any theories

Link to todays presser:

http://www.news9.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=2585171&at1=News&h1=Thursday press conference

SeriouslySearching
06-12-2008, 11:58 PM
It sounds like the reporter was talking about previously to me since he mentioned fingerprints, too. (which I find very interesting)

SuziQ
06-12-2008, 11:59 PM
Here is a link to good coverage of the case for those just joining this thread. You may have to register, well worth it IMO.

http://www.newsok.com/news/weleetkaslayings

ETA: Also a good link from the same site regarding cold cases
http://coldcaseokc.com/

SuziQ
06-13-2008, 12:03 AM
I am reposting this timeline map from the last thread:

http://newsok.com/article/3255986/?print=1

SeriouslySearching
06-13-2008, 12:07 AM
Thanks, Suzi. I tell you, after listening to the grandmother...I am just stunned. Poor thing has to be still in shock.

evelyn24
06-13-2008, 12:08 AM
Video at the below link shows close up of equipment used by OSBI today. The reporter talks about "some forensic evidence" taken from the scene. Not sure if he means more located today.

http://www.news9.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=2587012&at1=Station 2&h1=Investigators not ruling out any theories

Link to todays presser:

http://www.news9.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=2585171&at1=News&h1=Thursday press conference


Thank you.

Reannan
06-13-2008, 12:11 AM
Suzi, as usual you Rock!!! I have to get some sleep now, but will check it all out tomorrow. Thanks again!

SuziQ
06-13-2008, 12:16 AM
SS, those girls were left by the side of the road like garbage. I can't imagine the family members will ever be the same again.

Hey Reannan, my sleuthing twin sister! I missed seeing you at WS.

YW Evelyn.

SeriouslySearching
06-13-2008, 12:24 AM
You are right, Suzi. Bless their hearts. I hate that the last horrific image of those beautiful girls will be burned in their memories forever. Breaks my heart to even think about it.

philamena
06-13-2008, 01:15 AM
I am reposting this timeline map from the last thread:

http://newsok.com/article/3255986/?print=1

Refresh my memory, did the person who saw the girls before the shooting, see the other vehicle????

After looking at that map and seeing just how close the bodies were to the home, I think the murderer(s) definately knew the girls. That's why they were shot so many times.
Someone wanted to make sure those little girls were dead.

MCDRAW
06-13-2008, 01:29 AM
I hope they make an arrest while I am sleeping.

SuziQ
06-13-2008, 01:43 AM
Refresh my memory, did the person who saw the girls before the shooting, see the other vehicle????



At todays presser, IIRC, the spokesman said he'd rather not discuss that.

Taximom
06-13-2008, 01:50 AM
SS, Greta doesn't post transcripts. That has always been a wish of mine about her show because IMO she always asks the best questions.

Mygirlsadie
06-13-2008, 03:43 AM
I have really been thinking of the grandfather alot and my heart aches for him so bad that a few times i'm sitting here in tears. I don't need to google ''gunshot to the face'' to imagine what kind of horror that grandpa had to see. This crime really baffles my mind. Two innocent girls taking a walk in the country... I'm really beginning to hate this world.

Trino
06-13-2008, 08:23 AM
I haven't posted since yesterday - my there was a lot of catching up to do!

I just wonder if the killers were from out of the area, although LE seems to think not. Obviously, the killers had their guns ready for something. I'm of the opinion the girls saw something. Maybe the killers DID get off a main highway and were just looking for a random place to kill someone already in their car. Maybe the person yelled for help, and the girls saw/heard it. It appears the killers did a U-turn, which could also also indicate they didn't know where the road ahead went.

Could the bridge have been a landmark place for something? Yes, it's out of the way, but with today's technology, it's not that difficult to locate... GPS... Google...

MCDRAW
06-13-2008, 09:18 AM
I think LE are saying that they think they are local because they have a suspect. Or maybe I am just hoping that they do.

christine2448
06-13-2008, 09:23 AM
Westboro Church May Protest at Girls' Funerals

6/13/2008

(Topeka, KS) -- The idiots from the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, infamous for protesting at soldiers funeral across the country are planning to protest at one or both of the funerals for the girls shot to death near Weleetka. A church member says the girls were killed because of the sins of Oklahoma. Services for 13 year old Taylor Placker will be at 10am in Dewar and 11 year old Skyla Whitaker will be remembered beginning at 2pm in Henrietta.

c2cd208
06-13-2008, 09:38 AM
Westboro Church May Protest at Girls' Funerals

6/13/2008

(Topeka, KS) -- The idiots from the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, infamous for protesting at soldiers funeral across the country are planning to protest at one or both of the funerals for the girls shot to death near Weleetka. A church member says the girls were killed because of the sins of Oklahoma. Services for 13 year old Taylor Placker will be at 10am in Dewar and 11 year old Skyla Whitaker will be remembered beginning at 2pm in Henrietta.
This makes me ANGRY :furious: Why cant these people let these girls have the service they deserve. Sick, just plain sick.

XcomSquaddie
06-13-2008, 09:39 AM
Westboro Church May Protest at Girls' Funerals

6/13/2008

(Topeka, KS) -- The idiots from the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, infamous for protesting at soldiers funeral across the country are planning to protest at one or both of the funerals for the girls shot to death near Weleetka. A church member says the girls were killed because of the sins of Oklahoma. Services for 13 year old Taylor Placker will be at 10am in Dewar and 11 year old Skyla Whitaker will be remembered beginning at 2pm in Henrietta.

I read an article on them a few years ago. It was an indepth expose by a journalist, and included interviews with phelps and his children. The story was squashed by the journalists employers, after threats of lawsuits by the WBC.

The article is a litany of physical, emotional and psychological abuse of the children and the wife. phelps himself is described as a former drug addict who switched his addiction (and insanity) to religion.

Tellingly, the children who remain with him tried to justify his abuse, rather than denying that it happened.

The constitution does not give you the right to inflict emotional pain on suffering families. If these people show up they should be tear-gassed, firehosed, tasered and arrested.

It's kind of a pity that we did away with public floggings and tar-and-feathering.

noZme
06-13-2008, 09:40 AM
[quote=christine2448;2293074]Westboro Church May Protest at Girls' Funerals quote]

NOOOO!
They are misguided souls. My Bible teaches very different works in the name of the Lord.

Group dynamics is a powerful force. I find it hard to believe that they as individuals would dare intrude on solemn occasions like this....I feel like the Church Lady on Saturday Night Live..... What could make them do that? Maybe Saaaaatan!"

MeoW333
06-13-2008, 09:40 AM
How dense is the woods there? Are there tracks for either trucks to get through or powerlines near the road where the girls were walking?

"He said an aviation unit with the Oklahoma Highway Patrol was also helping to scour the scene for clues."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66012&page=10

Walking in the ditch on the side of the road, maybe they were looking for turtles since they loved animals. A country road like that; there are no rules and people could just walk anywhere on the road. Would the girls have wandered into the woods a bit looking for animals and saw something else? If they made it to the bridge, then turned around (not even seeing anything) yet turned around when their cell phone rang; maybe a culprit heard their phone and assumed they witnessed something. If the girls had seen something, they would have started running or used the cell phone. Walking back from the bridge, on the road next to the woods; is there anywhere in the woods that a meth lab could be stashed?
If it was a thrill killing, then local boys should be looked at. Execution styles are show in movies and video games. The u-turn the vehicle made was away from the direction the girls lived, correct? Then one would think they knew that houses or at least the girls' were in that direction. To pull a u-turn is harder than to keep on driving in the direction they were originally facing.

SeriouslySearching
06-13-2008, 09:43 AM
OMG! Those evil people need to be stopped from doing this across the country. It is one thing to protest for whatever reason, but quite another to do it at funerals. I hope the bikers show up in force to prevent them from bothering the families. :furious:

XcomSquaddie
06-13-2008, 09:45 AM
I find it hard to believe that they as individuals would dare intrude on solemn occasions like this....

They've been doing that at the funerals for dead soldiers for years now. phelps is a truly vile individual.

SeriouslySearching
06-13-2008, 09:46 AM
SS, Greta doesn't post transcripts. That has always been a wish of mine about her show because IMO she always asks the best questions.She needs to fix that! I thought she posted them in interview archives. :(

SewingDeb
06-13-2008, 09:54 AM
Here's a link to Greta's Interview Archive:

http://www.foxnews.com/column_archive/0,2976,76,00.html

calidreamin
06-13-2008, 09:56 AM
Westboro Church May Protest at Girls' Funerals

6/13/2008

(Topeka, KS) -- The idiots from the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, infamous for protesting at soldiers funeral across the country are planning to protest at one or both of the funerals for the girls shot to death near Weleetka. A church member says the girls were killed because of the sins of Oklahoma. Services for 13 year old Taylor Placker will be at 10am in Dewar and 11 year old Skyla Whitaker will be remembered beginning at 2pm in Henrietta.

Those people are just disgusting! They should be thrown in jail for being vile, nasty, hateful stains on humanity!!!:behindbar:furious::furious::furious: