Maricopa Jane Doe 1999 Thread #4

[christine2448]

The old discussion thread was getting too long, please continue here.

Maricopa Jane Doe 1999 Thread #1 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43813)

Maricopa Jane Doe 1999 Thread #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57369)

Thread 3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64866)

[Fairy1]

Thanks Christine!!! :blowkiss:

[Fairy1]

I don't know if MJD is related in any way to Doris, but I feel quite sure that her circumstances will prove to be similar in many ways. It's so difficult to understand how a mother could "lose touch" with her own babies but, obviously, it does happen.

I was very involved with Marlaina Reed's case and still check the Chicago papers and news stations daily to find out if they've found her killer. I really doubt they ever will.

After she was identified, her mother said she started running away at 14. WTF? From a small town in Indiana to friggin Chicago!!! What 14 year old child stands a chance of surviving? And - it took them a YEAR to identify her - even with what I considered to be highly specific characteristics. Jeez. Still breaks my heart.

[christine2448]

Those of you that know me and 'my story'..know that I ran away at 15...I am 38 and have not yet been home.

However, after years I was able to make peace w/my family and our relationship has come a long way in the last few years.

It is very possible for a child, a motivated one, to break out and make it, I did. I have 2 beautiful, homeschooled children, I have owned my own business since I was 18 and I feel I am successful and have made a good life for myself and my children. I had to 'break the cycle'.

I feel MJD is not just a 'street hooker'. She had real diamonds in her ears and a cross pendant w/real diamonds around her neck (we know this now)......she was well 'maintained', nice shoes, wearing skirt...she is someone, and I want to know who.

[absinthe]

Thanks for sharing, Christine. I didn't know.

Has the report been made into a PDF yet? Or have y'all decided against posting it?

[christine2448]

Thanks for sharing, Christine. I didn't know.

Has the report been made into a PDF yet? Or have y'all decided against posting it?

We are working on it.

Email me and I will forward meanwhile.

[kaylenbabysims]

Those of you that know me and 'my story'..know that I ran away at 15...I am 38 and have not yet been home.

However, after years I was able to make peace w/my family and our relationship has come a long way in the last few years.

It is very possible for a child, a motivated one, to break out and make it, I did. I have 2 beautiful, homeschooled children, I have owned my own business since I was 18 and I feel I am successful and have made a good life for myself and my children. I had to 'break the cycle'.

I feel MJD is not just a 'street hooker'. She had real diamonds in her ears and a cross pendant w/real diamonds around her neck (we know this now)......she was well 'maintained', nice shoes, wearing skirt...she is someone, and I want to know who.

Wow i've never read this about you!!! Sounds like you had to do what you had to do!!! I had to disown my mom!! Wanted to really run from the whole family but couldnt quite do it .. but sometimes I wish I would of.... freaking grandma wont let up on me about my mom :croc: grandma raised me to stay away from those types of people .. I listened :)


ETA: you all are doing a great job!! its heartbreaking some of these stories your bringing up... but it shows ya anything is possible..

[adnoid]

Those of you that know me and 'my story'..know that I ran away at 15...I am 38 and have not yet been home...

I didn't know that. I know you were 38, I mean, but not the other part.

[Fairy1]

:mad:

[christine2448]

:mad:


:blowkiss:

[Fairy1]

Lindsey needs to speak up. This did not go down the way it's recorded here. She has nothing to lose now. FGS!

[kaylenbabysims]

yeah I wish someone would speak :mad: someone knows something!!! and i'm curious about that guy who didnt call back!!! wonder if they ever got in contact again? or did I miss that??

[Teresa Larson]

Lindsey needs to speak up. This did not go down the way it's recorded here. She has nothing to lose now. FGS!

She has everything to lose. There is no statue on murder/homicide She would be considered an accessory and even if she isn't afraid of being charged she is probably afraid of Alonzo. Those pimps are no joke. I wonder if LE has a picture of her that we could compare to her myspace picture. I also wonder what happened to MJD's purse? Which leads me to the next question I wonder if they ever searched along side of the road from where she was jumped/pushed to where they stopped the car? Probably not.

[christine2448]

I need those that agreed to help with story local in Pheonix to email or Pm me ASAP! Reporter wants to get this going by MONDAY!

[Cubby]

She has everything to lose. There is no statue on murder/homicide She would be considered an accessory and even if she isn't afraid of being charged she is probably afraid of Alonzo. Those pimps are no joke. I wonder if LE has a picture of her that we could compare to her myspace picture. I also wonder what happened to MJD's purse? Which leads me to the next question I wonder if they ever searched along side of the road from where she was jumped/pushed to where they stopped the car? Probably not.

Let's not forget our focus here. It is not to determine whether MJD jumped, fell or was pushed, it's to give her a name and get her back to her family.

I think someone knows more than they were saying..... I'm certain they do.

[fmw63]

She has everything to lose. There is no statue on murder/homicide She would be considered an accessory and even if she isn't afraid of being charged she is probably afraid of Alonzo.

I don't know. From the report it looks like both of them have escaped a charge like that. The fact that she jumped out of the window instead of the falling out the door pretty much says to me that she made the jump herself. I had a car just like his, and I know it would have taken quite an effort for her to even get out the window intentionally, much less accidentally. I guess she was more afraid of her pimp, or Alonzo, than jumping out of a car. (The report mentions Lindsey or Alonza saying MJD was afraid of being beaten up by someone if she left town)

[christine2448]

Witnessess say that the car was all over the road and the driver was reaching around the back seat, for a gun? Believe09 (hope you don't mind me posting your opinions) and I have dicussed and we think this is the scenario.....that is why she risked her life to jump...maybe he was going to kill her....sounds like from witnessess he could have been reaching for a gun.

[fmw63]

Witnessess say that the car was all over the road and the driver was reaching around the back seat, for a gun? Believe09 (hope you don't mind me posting your opinions) and I have dicussed and we think this is the scenario.....that is why she risked her life to jump...maybe he was going to kill her....sounds like from witnessess he could have been reaching for a gun.


or maybe just to get her stuff so she could get out. Alonzo's version is partly backed up by the witnesses. He said he had moved out of the fast lane to the right lane to slow down to let her out. The witnesses in the truck said the car was moving slower than they were, in the right lane when they (the truckers) came up behind them.

[Auburnmommyof2]

Ok, I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Please don't fuss or attack me for saying this. But, I think that Alonzo and Lindsey may not know much about MJD. I have a feeling that their story may be true. I think that it is very likely that he picked her up to try and get her to work for him. But maybe MJD thought she was turning a trick. I don't think the part about him telling her they were going to miami was true. I think that she was only in the car with them for a short period of time. So they may not know much about who she really was. She may have done whatever for him/them and when they wouldn't pay her or when she realized they weren't taking her back she decided to jump. Lindsey may still be scared to death of Alonzo, who knows? There is no telling what kind of hell she lived through during this time in her life. He may have threatened her life if she ever told anyone anything about it. I just have a gut feeling that our time would be better spent trying to figure out anyone that knew her in the Phenix area and in the Milwaukee area. I think its great to go with the reporters in those areas for media coverage. This is just my opinion and I felt like I should give ya'll my thoughts on it.

[christine2448]

Witnessess say that the car was all over the road and the driver was reaching around the back seat, for a gun? Believe09 (hope you don't mind me posting your opinions) and I have dicussed and we think this is the scenario.....that is why she risked her life to jump...maybe he was going to kill her....sounds like from witnessess he could have been reaching for a gun.

After rereading my own post I wanted to clarify....

Witnessess say that the car was all over the road and the driver was reaching around the back seat <--that is in the report, after the , for a gun? Was me asking if that is what he could be doing. Just didn't want to confuse :crazy: The witness did NOT say gun, that was discussion between Believe and I. FWIW

[phenolred]

Im Dying to see that report! Was it the back passanger window or front or was it only a 2 door?

Christine I agree I was also thinking about her wearing REAL diamonds etc, more typical hookers, street kids dont have money for those. or if they did have them at one time its possible they would have pawned them for money to live on. How many hookers do you see with such nicely groomed (waxed maybe) eyebrows.

[fmw63]

Im Dying to see that report! Was it the back passanger window or front or was it only a 2 door?

Front passenger window from a 4-door.

[phenolred]

Looking into more info on PCP found this

PCP is often applied to a leafy material such as mint, parsley, oregano, tobacco or marijuana. Many people who use PCP may do it unknowingly because PCP is often used as an additive and can be found in marijuana, LSD, or methamphetamine.

High doses can also cause effects similar to symptoms of schizophrenia, such as delusions, paranoia, disordered thinking, a sensation of distance from one's environment, and catatonia. Speech is often sparse and garbled.

Didnt he say she was talking gibberish?


they often become violent or suicidal, and are very dangerous to themselves and to others. They should be kept in a calm setting and should not be left alone.

PCP effects are most notable due to the totally detached, sometimes violent, and crazy reactions of people using PCP. The effects of PCP on a person are disturbing. The user is not at all like themselves and can even go into a kind of living nightmare, where monsters are attacking him and life is very unreal.

The PCP user can see very upsetting and disturbing pictures they believe to be happening right there and then. The user can believe they are being attacked. Tragically, PCP is also a pain killer and the user can badly injure themselves without "feeling" it.

High doses of PCP can also cause seizures, coma, and death (though death more often results from accidental injury or suicide during PCP intoxication). Psychological effects at high doses include illusions and hallucinations.

PCP causes the user to act irrationally. Like jumping out of car windows,

You always hear about people in the 70's doing LSD and Angel Dust (PCP) and thinking they can fly and jumping out of windows,

When I was young I had a babysitter and her husband, they had a late teenage son, get got into PCP and was using frequently, started doing strange things his mom once called my mom and said she found him in his bedroom with lots of needles or straight pins sticking out of his stomache, he told her he was trying to kill the Monkeys that were in there,

Not too long after that he Killed his mom and dad in their home, he shot them both, he told the police the bear on the wall told him to do it.

He was at the funeral (handcuffed) he told everyone hi, Mom& Dad are in there in the other room asleep. He was found not guilty reason of insanity they said he had schizophrenia,

He was sent to the state mental hospital and years later he was realesed.

[Cubby]

Ok, I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Please don't fuss or attack me for saying this. But, I think that Alonzo and Lindsey may not know much about MJD. I have a feeling that their story may be true. I think that it is very likely that he picked her up to try and get her to work for him. But maybe MJD thought she was turning a trick. I don't think the part about him telling her they were going to miami was true. I think that she was only in the car with them for a short period of time. So they may not know much about who she really was. She may have done whatever for him/them and when they wouldn't pay her or when she realized they weren't taking her back she decided to jump. Lindsey may still be scared to death of Alonzo, who knows? There is no telling what kind of hell she lived through during this time in her life. He may have threatened her life if she ever told anyone anything about it. I just have a gut feeling that our time would be better spent trying to figure out anyone that knew her in the Phenix area and in the Milwaukee area. I think its great to go with the reporters in those areas for media coverage. This is just my opinion and I felt like I should give ya'll my thoughts on it.

thinking out loud.

A few things from the report stood out to me. LDJ and Alonzo stated to LE they resided in the place they were moving from for two months. Coincidence that LDJ also mentioned MDJ was only in Phoenix for 2 mo's? Did they know one another from the place they were residing? Did LE ever interview the people working in that building? That would be the logical place to start to verify Alonzo's and LDJ's story.

One of the neighbors LE interviewed described who she believed was MDJ's pimp. When interviewed he claimed he did not know MJD. He has quite a lengthy criminal record as well. The statute of limitations is up for pandering a minor child, BUT, I am guessing/assuming the statute of limitations is NOT up for taking a minor child across state line. Am I right in thinking he could still face kidnapping charges? - A reason for him to stay quiet if he knows who she is.

the "alleged" pimp... found a little about him from milwaukee, - a slum landlord with a federal indictment for not repairing his properties... and the names associated with him have some criminal history as well. I'm not sure trying to make contact with them would be beneficial. -

I'm pretty certain the LDJ which was found with the birth announcement is our LDJ. I do not think she would face charges..... As a parent, I have to wonder why she would not give any info she may have not been comfortable with sharing when this happened. Especially having a daughter herself and imagining just how difficult it would be to know your child was out there... unidentified for close to a decade. I hope and pray if she has any knowledge she never shared she finds it within herself to do so, EVEN if she does so anonymously.

[believe09]

Hey gang-I agree that MJD was not your typical street kid-I am not 100% familiar with the lifestyle but wearing real gold and diamonds, plus high-end shoes if the white ones were hers...and, her outfit matched, if I am making any sense.

Although they found weed in the car, I do not recall reading that they found burned roaches-my theory is that between the mile marker when Jane Doe jumped and the mile marker Alonzo and LDJ were stopped at, things were thrown out of the car.

I think LDJ knows who Jane doe is because they worked the same corner during the day...she must have at least known her street name. I think LE has a good handle on who her pimp was and his location now and then; the pimp brought up with the case is still in the business from the records I have been reading. I think Alonzo and LDJ might have been trying to take or recruit MJD to increase Alonzo's revenues or so he could compete a little bit more...who knows.

But I can say this-things look much different for LDJ knowing that Jane Doe was sitting on her lap at the time of the exit...it is not hard to envision a not so kindly push...take a moment to think about the leverage Jane Doe had to get in order to "fly" out of the window as the witnesses have stated...not a dive, but with momentum according to descriptions. Then she rolled over and over....all the while managing to do a good job protecting her face in my opinion.

In any case, I am with Cubby-and we now have a lot more information that will help ID her, which is the goal. LE can sort out the who, what, where, how and why...we just want to help do what is right by her.

[Teresa Larson]

We still are not certain if she went out the door or the window. Nobody saw how she got out of the car. I do not believe anything Lindsey or Alonzo has to say. Also I wasn't trying to determine if she fell or jumped from the car I wondered if they searched the side of the road to see if they threw her purse out. She had to have one sooooo where did it go to??

[fmw63]

We still are not certain if she went out the door or the window. Nobody saw how she got out of the car. I do not believe anything Lindsey or Alonzo has to say.

It was one of the truckers who witnessed it that said he saw her "come straight out the passengers side window and land on the pavement rolling continously".

[Cubby]

Since we are thinking MJD most likely came from the Milwaukee area, did we ever find any youth services for teens in the sex trades in that area? Have any letters gone out?

tia.

[Bree0372]

Hey gang-I agree that MJD was not your typical street kid-I am not 100% familiar with the lifestyle but wearing real gold and diamonds, plus high-end shoes if the white ones were hers...and, her outfit matched, if I am making any sense.

Although they found weed in the car, I do not recall reading that they found burned roaches-my theory is that between the mile marker when Jane Doe jumped and the mile marker Alonzo and LDJ were stopped at, things were thrown out of the car.

I think LDJ knows who Jane doe is because they worked the same corner during the day...she must have at least known her street name. I think LE has a good handle on who her pimp was and his location now and then; the pimp brought up with the case is still in the business from the records I have been reading. I think Alonzo and LDJ might have been trying to take or recruit MJD to increase Alonzo's revenues or so he could compete a little bit more...who knows.

But I can say this-things look much different for LDJ knowing that Jane Doe was sitting on her lap at the time of the exit...it is not hard to envision a not so kindly push...take a moment to think about the leverage Jane Doe had to get in order to "fly" out of the window as the witnesses have stated...not a dive, but with momentum according to descriptions. Then she rolled over and over....all the while managing to do a good job protecting her face in my opinion.

In any case, I am with Cubby-and we now have a lot more information that will help ID her, which is the goal. LE can sort out the who, what, where, how and why...we just want to help do what is right by her.

Believe - I have to agree with you on all you said, but what stood out to me was if she went out the window she had to have some kind of leverage to push herself (with her legs) out the window. Now, knowing that she was sitting on LDJ's lap, gives a whole new picture (to me anyway). She had to at least have her foot on the seat to push herself out the window; maybe LDJ did give her that needed nudge to push her out (IMO). I think it is doubtful that she was hanging out the window and just fell. My hinky-meter is going off here. I think LDJ knows a lot more than she is willing to say - for whatever reason - maybe one day she will feel the need to do the right thing and step up and tell all that she knows.

This case is such a sad one to me - she is someone's baby. She was well taken care of as far as her jewelry and eyebrows tell. I can't understand how she hasn't been ID'd after all these years. Poor girl - my prayers and thanks to all of you that are working hard on this case in hopes to finally give MJD an identity. I read here almost daily hoping she's been ID'd. I wish there was something I could do to help.

[Cubby]

Originally Posted by believe09 http://websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2294464#post2294464)
Hey gang-I agree that MJD was not your typical street kid-I am not 100% familiar with the lifestyle but wearing real gold and diamonds, plus high-end shoes if the white ones were hers...and, her outfit matched, if I am making any sense.

Although they found weed in the car, I do not recall reading that they found burned roaches-my theory is that between the mile marker when Jane Doe jumped and the mile marker Alonzo and LDJ were stopped at, things were thrown out of the car.

I think LDJ knows who Jane doe is because they worked the same corner during the day...she must have at least known her street name. I think LE has a good handle on who her pimp was and his location now and then; the pimp brought up with the case is still in the business from the records I have been reading. I think Alonzo and LDJ might have been trying to take or recruit MJD to increase Alonzo's revenues or so he could compete a little bit more...who knows.

But I can say this-things look much different for LDJ knowing that Jane Doe was sitting on her lap at the time of the exit...it is not hard to envision a not so kindly push...take a moment to think about the leverage Jane Doe had to get in order to "fly" out of the window as the witnesses have stated...not a dive, but with momentum according to descriptions. Then she rolled over and over....all the while managing to do a good job protecting her face in my opinion.

In any case, I am with Cubby-and we now have a lot more information that will help ID her, which is the goal. LE can sort out the who, what, where, how and why...we just want to help do what is right by her.





Believe - I have to agree with you on all you said, but what stood out to me was if she went out the window she had to have some kind of leverage to push herself (with her legs) out the window. Now, knowing that she was sitting on LDJ's lap, gives a whole new picture (to me anyway). She had to at least have her foot on the seat to push herself out the window; maybe LDJ did give her that needed nudge to push her out (IMO). I think it is doubtful that she was hanging out the window and just fell. My hinky-meter is going off here. I think LDJ knows a lot more than she is willing to say - for whatever reason - maybe one day she will feel the need to do the right thing and step up and tell all that she knows.

This case is such a sad one to me - she is someone's baby. She was well taken care of as far as her jewelry and eyebrows tell. I can't understand how she hasn't been ID'd after all these years. Poor girl - my prayers and thanks to all of you that are working hard on this case in hopes to finally give MJD an identity. I read here almost daily hoping she's been ID'd. I wish there was something I could do to help.


I agree.Though, not knowing LDJ's size or stregth, it's easy to visualize the possibility of Alonzo trying to drive with his left hand, push MJD with his right and if she were struggling that could easily explain his lack of control driving. It's also struck me as odd that she would be seated between Alonzo and LDJ, especially if LDJ was Alonzo's girl. I can't help but wonder if they had MJD sitting between them so it would make it more difficult for her to escape. I'd also bet money there is some kind of relationship between Alonzo and MJD's alleged pimp. Something was up there between the two.

Considering there were exits between were MJD "jumped" and where Alonzo pulled over I too imagine they had plenty of time to toss things out of the car.
It's sad. MJD exited the car so close to the next exit. It doesn't sound like Alonzo was planning on pulling over at all..... I'm not exactly sure about the area, but I think if he were going to pull over he would have already started slowing down for the exit.

[fmw63]

http://lokeyphotography.com/hookers

[Auburnmommyof2]

After reading over the last couple posts, I didn't think about the fact that LDJ may have known MJD from the streets. Maybe she did nudge/push her. I just think that if we can get to some people in that area from that time frame, we can get some more details to help. I personally think that finding other prostitutes from that time and area may help ID our MJD.

[Auburnmommyof2]

Ok, I found LDJ on the AZ court system records. DOB 7/30/80. It appears she has a FTA warrant there so maybe this is why she won't talk? Also, what is Alonzo's last name? I keep searching through the old threads and just thought I'd ask.

[Lucy's mom]

Since we are thinking MJD most likely came from the Milwaukee area, did we ever find any youth services for teens in the sex trades in that area? Have any letters gone out?

tia.
I sent an email to Dane County Sherriff regarding the potential Doris affiliation. As soon as I get a response, I'll post it! :-)

[believe09]

Awesome work these last weeks-Oh my land!!! You all look for me if I disappear, ok?

[Angie4b1g]

I'm really starting to believe she could be Coral Hall.

[kaylenbabysims]

I'm really starting to believe she could be Coral Hall.


I think other girls were compared that didnt fit her description to the T either......and The only thing with Coral I think is her height.. I know things might be off.... but its worth a shot I think..... Cant hurt right ?

[Angie4b1g]

I don't know exactly how tall my teenagers are. If I had to say I'd be like "he's about this tall... so maybe 5'3"?". Know what I mean?

5" is a big difference but all it takes is each side to be off 1.5" and now it's only a 2" difference. Which seems possible at 14 in a 3 month span.

[kaylenbabysims]

I think it could be possible.. I know I dont know my kids exact heights either and they're still young .. ones shorter than the cabinets and one is taller lol...


did we ever have the birthday for the alonzo guy?? I might of missed it :confused:

[kaylenbabysims]

this might be a really really weird idea.. I dont know.. but it was a thought... a long time ago I was going through the different sections of craigslist... the missed connections and those types of sections.. well there were these one postings, kinda like prostitutes through craigslist type thing.. ... I dont know if these are just hoax to get you to come out and get beat up or real prostitutes....but if they're 'old' ones but use the puter these days......maybe they'd reconize the unidentified girl? :confused:

[missmuffit]

Did anyone else catch the bungee cord reference...I wonder if they were trying to bind MJD and that is what caused her to jump out of the window. I just thought that it was odd that a bungee cord was listed as being found by her.

MM ~

[kaylenbabysims]

I read that too!!! I was wondering what that was for.. the only thing I could think of is to help tie down belongings .. or her ...

[Auburnmommyof2]

Did anyone else catch the bungee cord reference...I wonder if they were trying to bind MJD and that is what caused her to jump out of the window. I just thought that it was odd that a bungee cord was listed as being found by her.

MM ~

Ok, I can't find the bungee cord reference anywhere...where was it mentioned?

[missmuffit]

Ok, I can't find the bungee cord reference anywhere...where was it mentioned?

It was located in part 1 of the police report. It had its own thread last night however when I went back to look up something the thread was missing. Anyway, the cord was listed in one of the evidence sections of what was found with MJD when she was found on the side of the road. If this is not correct can someone jump in....thx :)

MM ~

[byomoi]

My scenario: MJD is dressed in a white blouse and black skirt. Those clothes made me think that she may have been working in a restaurant (Denny’s, Bob’s Big Boy…) At 2:00 pm in the afternoon (maybe between a split shift), she goes to score some weed; finds Alonzo. He scores for her, they pickup Lindsey, and go for a joyride to smoke. Maybe the weed was treated. MJD is sitting in the center-front and starts to retch. She scrambles over Lindsey towards the window. She starts to vomit. Lindsey has this strange girl in heels and a skirt crawling over her and puking; Lindsey is pushing MJD toward the open window in an effort to keep the vomit off of her. MJD loses her balance.

Trish

[Auburnmommyof2]

It was located in part 1 of the police report. It had its own thread last night however when I went back to look up something the thread was missing. Anyway, the cord was listed in one of the evidence sections of what was found with MJD when she was found on the side of the road. If this is not correct can someone jump in....thx :)

MM ~

Oh ok, ty. So the police report was on last night? and I missed it? Is is supposed to be up again?

[Auburnmommyof2]

I think it could be possible.. I know I dont know my kids exact heights either and they're still young .. ones shorter than the cabinets and one is taller lol...


did we ever have the birthday for the alonzo guy?? I might of missed it :confused:
4/28/1970

[missmuffit]

Oh ok, ty. So the police report was on last night? and I missed it? Is is supposed to be up again?

Not sure why it was taken down.....I just know that I was frustrated when trying to read it cause for some reason my usual browser would not pull up the pdf. and I had to reboot my puter 3 times in a row...lol

MM ~

[Teresa Larson]

It was one of the truckers who witnessed it that said he saw her "come straight out the passengers side window and land on the pavement rolling continously".

The truck driver didn't state whether she came out the door or window.


I SPOKE TO THE TWO WITNESSES. THE DRIVER OF THE TRUCK STATED THAT AS HE GOT INTO THE LEFT LANE TO PASS, THE VEHICLE CAME OVER INTO THE LEFT LANE, MAKING HIM HIT HIS BREAKS. THE VEHICLE WENT BACK INTO THE RIGHT
LANE, SO HE TOLD HIS PARTNER TO WRITE DOWN THE NUMBER OF THE CAR'S LICENSE PLATE BECAUSE THE PERSON IN THE CAR ACTED AS IF HE WAS DRUNK.THE TRUCK DRIVER SAID THAT AS HE WAS PASSING, HIS PARTNER WAS LOOKING IN THE MIRROR AND SAW THE WOMAN'S HAND AND BODY COME OUT OF THE PASSENGER'S FRONT SIDE OF THE CAR AND THE CAR KEPT GOING. HE SAID THAT THERE WERE THREE PEOPLE SITTING IN THE FRONT SEAT OF THE CAR. HE DID NOT KNOW IN WHAT SEAT POSITION SHE WAS IN, IF SHE WAS AT THE DOOR OR IN THE MIDDLE.

[Teresa Larson]

A bungee cord would have been pretty hard to use to tie her down. They are too bulky. Alonzo must of had it for another reason. If the intent was to use it on MJD then this would have been premeditated which I doubt was the case. IMO

[Auburnmommyof2]

The truck driver didn't state whether she came out the door or window.


I SPOKE TO THE TWO WITNESSES. THE DRIVER OF THE TRUCK STATED THAT AS HE GOT INTO THE LEFT LANE TO PASS, THE VEHICLE CAME OVER INTO THE LEFT LANE, MAKING HIM HIT HIS BREAKS. THE VEHICLE WENT BACK INTO THE RIGHT

LANE, SO HE TOLD HIS PARTNER TO WRITE DOWN THE NUMBER OF THE CAR'S LICENSE PLATE BECAUSE THE PERSON IN THE CAR ACTED AS IF HE WAS DRUNK.THE TRUCK DRIVER SAID THAT AS HE WAS PASSING, HIS PARTNER WAS LOOKING IN THE MIRROR AND SAW THE WOMAN'S HAND AND BODY COME OUT OF THE PASSENGER'S FRONT SIDE OF THE CAR AND THE CAR KEPT GOING. HE SAID THAT THERE WERE THREE PEOPLE SITTING IN THE FRONT SEAT OF THE CAR. HE DID NOT KNOW IN WHAT SEAT POSITION SHE WAS IN, IF SHE WAS AT THE DOOR OR IN THE MIDDLE.

is that from the police report?

[Teresa Larson]

One more thing to think about.... Suzi told me MJD sustained a severe head injury to the BACK of her head. I would think that meant the back of her head was the point of impact. IF she did jump out the window (which I doubt) she would of had to have gone out the window back first otherwise she would of had to flip BEFORE she hit the pavement. Which would have been almost impossible. She didn't really have any face injuries. I don't understand why Lindsey couldn't have kept her from jumping IF that was what she did.

[Teresa Larson]

is that from the police report?


Yes it is :)

[Teresa Larson]

This is the same car they were riding in.


http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/pictures/VEHICLE/1990/Cadillac/16085/1990.cadillac.deville.1561-T.jpg (http://www.edmunds.com/used/1990/cadillac/deville/16085/photos.html)

[believe09]

I'm really starting to believe she could be Coral Hall.

Aside from the height difference, Coral had a scar on the lower part of her neck. Has anyone contacted LE to see what kind of a scar it was? We know that jane doe had so much road rash on her body, distinguishing marks on her limbs might have been tough to see, but her face and neck look OK and I do not see a mention of a neck scar....

[believe09]

One more thing to think about.... Suzi told me MJD sustained a severe head injury to the BACK of her head. I would think that meant the back of her head was the point of impact. IF she did jump out the window (which I doubt) she would of had to have gone out the window back first otherwise she would of had to flip BEFORE she hit the pavement. Which would have been almost impossible. She didn't really have any face injuries. I don't understand why Lindsey couldn't have kept her from jumping IF that was what she did.

She had multiple broken bones, so I think it might be tough to determine point of impact only because once she started rolling, how could she have controlled her head? JMO.

[Angie4b1g]

My scenario: MJD is dressed in a white blouse and black skirt. Those clothes made me think that she may have been working in a restaurant (Denny’s, Bob’s Big Boy…) At 2:00 pm in the afternoon (maybe between a split shift), she goes to score some weed; finds Alonzo. He scores for her, they pickup Lindsey, and go for a joyride to smoke. Maybe the weed was treated. MJD is sitting in the center-front and starts to retch. She scrambles over Lindsey towards the window. She starts to vomit. Lindsey has this strange girl in heels and a skirt crawling over her and puking; Lindsey is pushing MJD toward the open window in an effort to keep the vomit off of her. MJD loses her balance.

Trish

Spaghetti straps, though? And high heel shoes? I don't see it.

[believe09]

FMW's contact indicated they felt she was possibly from Mojave County; has anyone had any luck with their work on running down some of the FLDS contacts?

[Angie4b1g]

Aside from the height difference, Coral had a scar on the lower part of her neck. Has anyone contacted LE to see what kind of a scar it was? We know that jane doe had so much road rash on her body, distinguishing marks on her limbs might have been tough to see, but her face and neck look OK and I do not see a mention of a neck scar....

Until now we haven't seen mention of much of anything. Might be just another thing being "kept confidential".

[Zanko]

I'm confused about the police report. It's been nearly 10 years, we finally have a police report and where is it? The reason why (IMO) this child hasn't been identified so far is that a select few have access to all of the information and haven't put out enough info for others to help. Or it sounds like a lot of information was omitted. (Like the ring and the clothing.) Is this happening again? Someone said it was posted then taken down? Does anyone know why? The police report is public information, so there shouldn't be any problem with posting it.


Regarding Alonzo Decarlos Fernandez. His birthday is July 28, 1972. He was charged with Reckless Manslaughter and possession and use of Marijuana. He plead down to Hit and Run Death/Injury. The court case number is S-1100-CR-99025155.

[lorelei]

Has Coral been given to LE as a possible match? I remember I was about to do it when my computer died a few months ago & then I don't think I ever did. There were one or two possible sightings of her with another runaway & and adult male in Indiana. I don't think she's MJD but thats just my personal opinion (which isn't terribly reliable lol)- there are a lot of things that could add up I guess?

It seems like there just isn't all that much info on Coral- the scar was mentioned as being noticeable in one article and now I can't find it. Everything I see now just says "scar on lower neck"- I'll drink some more coffee and see if I can find it:).

edit- I was wondering what happened to it too Zanko. It was here Thursday night and I saw right as it was posted and I checked it Friday AM and the whole thing (thread& reports) was gone?

[believe09]

I'm confused about the police report. It's been nearly 10 years, we finally have a police report and where is it? The reason why (IMO) this child hasn't been identified so far is that a select few have access to all of the information and haven't put out enough info for others to help. Or it sounds like a lot of information was omitted. (Like the ring and the clothing.) Is this happening again? Someone said it was posted then taken down? Does anyone know why? The police report is public information, so there shouldn't be any problem with posting it.


Regarding Alonzo Decarlos Fernandez. His birthday is July 28, 1972. He was charged with Reckless Manslaughter and possession and use of Marijuana. He plead down to Hit and Run Death/Injury. The court case number is S-1100-CR-99025155.

My understanding of the police report was that it was posted yesterday as a link to a PDF until someone noticed that there was legal language indicating how it could and could not be disseminated. Someone is checking with LE to see if we can put it back up. until then, PM mod Christine2448 with your email address and she can send it to you....

What makes the process important is that how we handle this report could impact how easily we can obtain reports like this in the future. If we handle it in a sensitive, respectful manner and use it as a tool to ID MJD, I can forsee having an easier time obtaining them. JMO.

Not a single one of you intelligent, savvy individuals is being "left out."

[believe09]

Does someone who is an advocate for Coral Hall being a match want to check with LE to see exactly what kind of neck scar she had and how accurate her height measurement might be? I am on and offline this weekend while I am finishing up the process of moving, otherwise I would be happy to help.

[lorelei]

[quote=believe09;2296032]My understanding of the police report was that it was posted yesterday as a link to a PDF until someone noticed that there was legal language indicating how it could and could not be disseminated. quote]

Ah, thats what I was kind of thinking. You'd think I'd have figured it out though since I was the one who posted about the legal language:doh: duh. Thanks for that Believe:)

Thats a good idea about Coral Hall- I'm not going to be around/available much for the next week either so I don't think I can do the Coral Hall thing, I have family coming into town in a little while. Anybody else want to do it?

edit-- Here's the link to a more recent story about Coral Hall. I've got to run to the airport but there is a Flint police Sgt who seems to be working on the case mentioned in this article & its recent- he may be the guy to contact?
"Flint Police Take Fresh Look at Teens Disappearance" from march 08
http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/newsnow/2008/03/flint_mich_police_take_fresh_l.html
and also this one from April- same sgt is quoted?
http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/newsnow/2008/04/sightings_of_coral_hall_missin.html

[Auburnmommyof2]

Regarding Alonzo Decarlos Fernandez. His birthday is July 28, 1972. He was charged with Reckless Manslaughter and possession and use of Marijuana. He plead down to Hit and Run Death/Injury. The court case number is S-1100-CR-99025155.
I apologize, Somehow, I had his last name as Hernandez instead of Fernandez. Thank you for the information.

[believe09]

[quote=believe09;2296032]My understanding of the police report was that it was posted yesterday as a link to a PDF until someone noticed that there was legal language indicating how it could and could not be disseminated. quote]

Ah, thats what I was kind of thinking. You'd think I'd have figured it out though since I was the one who posted about the legal language:doh: duh. Thanks for that Believe:)

Thats a good idea about Coral Hall- I'm not going to be around/available much for the next week either so I don't think I can do the Coral Hall thing, I have family coming into town in a little while. Anybody else want to do it?

edit-- Here's the link to a more recent story about Coral Hall. I've got to run to the airport but there is a Flint police Sgt who seems to be working on the case mentioned in this article & its recent- he may be the guy to contact?
"Flint Police Take Fresh Look at Teens Disappearance" from march 08
http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/newsnow/2008/03/flint_mich_police_take_fresh_l.html
and also this one from April- same sgt is quoted?
http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/newsnow/2008/04/sightings_of_coral_hall_missin.html

It was a GREAT CATCH re: the police report...:blowkiss:

If Coral Hall has prints on file, dentals or DNA then that may easily answer whether or not she is MJD. MJD prints were run and her DNA is in CODIS. The dentals are an easy comparison....

[kaylenbabysims]

I'm confused about the police report. It's been nearly 10 years, we finally have a police report and where is it? The reason why (IMO) this child hasn't been identified so far is that a select few have access to all of the information and haven't put out enough info for others to help. Or it sounds like a lot of information was omitted. (Like the ring and the clothing.) Is this happening again? Someone said it was posted then taken down? Does anyone know why? The police report is public information, so there shouldn't be any problem with posting it.


Regarding Alonzo Decarlos Fernandez. His birthday is July 28, 1972. He was charged with Reckless Manslaughter and possession and use of Marijuana. He plead down to Hit and Run Death/Injury. The court case number is S-1100-CR-99025155.


Thanks!!!!! I remember searching somewhere for it long ago.. but at the time I dont know if it was for sure really him... have been searching different things and havent been able to find it again!!


But as far as Coral Hall and the reporter.. I did send an email to one the other day.. and sent him a link here (looks like one was here, on the Coral Hall thread at one time) and sent him a link to the ME (site) I did that wrong.. but he wrote back really quick to get that link lol! and he wrote back again real fast and said he'd get back with me :) hopefully he will!! or at least maybe he can get more detailed info about coral!

[Angie4b1g]

Flint Police Department
810-766-7036

[kaylenbabysims]

so who's good at talking on phones ???? :angel:


ETA: I'm really terrible at the phones ... I'm not even sure If I sound like an adult yet lol .. I get that "are your parents home" alot lol

[Angie4b1g]

Ok wth there was a Rolex in the car? Those are not cheap.

[christine2448]

Yes, there was a Rolex....it doesn't note man/womans.

[christine2448]

I am unsure of what the phone call is about that needs to be done...but if ya wanna contact me and give me the details, I'll see that it's done.

[Angie4b1g]

I think basically we just need to contact the cold case detective in Flint, MI. (Detective Sgt. Greg Hosmer) and ask him if Coral Pearl Hall's DNA is in CODIS. Failing that, ask him for more information about the scar on her neck / if she was compared to MJD / etc. It seems like if they have a cold case guy working on her case, there would be DNA in the system, but maybe not since her mother was dead and they didn't know who the father was and she was being raised by her grandmother. I'm not sure, though - I haven't seen it mentioned one way or the other anywhere.

[Aphra]

I just read the police report, and it leaves some lingering questions:

1) Re: Robin, the person who said she knew MJD from the neighborhood--if she really tried to talk her out of prostitution, then obviously they must have had some conversations of note. Why wouldn't she know MJD's real name? I know why she might be confused about MJD's street name, but generally--don't you get a name from someone you're having a conversation with?

2) In the last interview with Lindsey, why did she keep referring to Alonzo as "William"?

3) In the first part of the report, when Lindsey said something about someone only being in AZ for two months, did she mean *herself* or did she mean MJD?

After reading the report, I would want to talk to the neighbor some more. I'm also curious about the girl who they originally thought was MJD (that Monica girl).

[Angie4b1g]

And who had a damn Rolex! I want to know if that was a man's watch or a woman's watch. MJD had diamonds, is it possible she had a Rolex, too?

[Cubby]

Aprha said:
I just read the police report, and it leaves some lingering questions: ME too!

1) Re: Robin, the person who said she knew MJD from the neighborhood--if she really tried to talk her out of prostitution, then obviously they must have had some conversations of note. Why wouldn't she know MJD's real name? I know why she might be confused about MJD's street name, but generally--don't you get a name from someone you're having a conversation with?

I would like to see if we can contact Robin to see if she can offer any more info that may have not been in the LE report. Maybe anything she might have found insignificant that MJD shared.

2) In the last interview with Lindsey, why did she keep referring to Alonzo as "William"? That was strange. Could it be an LE typo? Someone found 15 aliases for an Alonzo, I wonder if William is one of them.

3) In the first part of the report, when Lindsey said something about someone only being in AZ for two months, did she mean *herself* or did she mean MJD?

In the police report, in one of LJD's interviews she said "she has only been in Arizona for two months", meaning MJD. First LDJ said never saw her before, then "may have" seen her before, how would she know she was only in AZ two months and not know her name? LE report also listed that she and Alonzo were at the extended suites for 2 months. Was MJD there too? The two months for both, coincidence?
There is the potential Mojave tie..... which is leaving me more confused. If MJD was only in Phoenix for two months, why would LDJ have said, "she has only been in ARIZONA for two months and not Phoenix for two months"?

After reading the report, I would want to talk to the neighbor some more. I'm also curious about the girl who they originally thought was MJD (that Monica girl).

LE verified Monica was incarcerated in TX at the time. That's how I understood they ruled out Monica.

[Cubby]

Is it just me or does it appear that LDJ has removed her myspace account? If so, then it looks as if that avenue for cooperation is a dead end.

[Angie4b1g]

I read it as LDJ saying that SHE had only been there for 2 months, not MJD.

[absinthe]

Can someone make a side by side of Coral and MJD? Thank you!

[Angie4b1g]

Sure one sec.

[Aphra]

I'll also try to do an overlay of MJD and Coral Hall in Fireworks and see if the facial features match.

[Angie4b1g]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/MJD_ID_TawniLee.jpg

[Aphra]

preliminary results of overlay: holy ****, it's uncanny. But I used the age progressed image....:doh:. I'll do the actual photo too.

[absinthe]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/MJD_ID_TawniLee.jpg

Coral's nose seems a little long, but that could be the angle. They both have full lips though. And Coral's thich brows could easily be waxed into that shape.

[Auburnmommyof2]

How long had Coral been missing again, wasn't it just a few months? I wonder when the photo of her was taken? Her bangs are short. Its hard to tell if MJD's bangs were long or short. Just a thought.

[absinthe]

How long had Coral been missing again, wasn't it just a few months? I wonder when the photo of her was taken? Her bangs are short. Its hard to tell if MJD's bangs were long or short. Just a thought.


I thought that too. She went missing in September of 1998, but I'm betting that is a old photo.

[christine2448]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/MJD_ID_TawniLee.jpg

WOW....the ears got me, look at both of their ears. Shape of face similiar.....nose bridge looks longer in 1st pic compared to MJD...but that could be camera, swelling...very interesting.

[Aphra]

eh, this overlay sucks. i'll try a new one. but until then....

http://s303.photobucket.com/albums/nn123/Aphra75/

[LionRun]

I don't see a resemblance between them. Maricopa's face is heart shaped and wider than Coral's, her eyes are larger and spaced farther apart, and the brow ridge seems to be totally different (I don't mean the brows--I mean the actual bone beneath the brows). Maricopa's bridge of her nose is also wider than Coral's. Others may see something differently, though.

[Angie4b1g]

Yes, her face is wider, but how much of it is swelling?

[Aphra]

the left side of her face is pretty significantly wider because of swelling.

I say call it in (and I was skeptical about Coral being MJD too). Does Michaela Garecht have an age progressed photo?

[BeavisMom62]

I just read the police report, and it leaves some lingering questions:

1) Re: Robin, the person who said she knew MJD from the neighborhood--if she really tried to talk her out of prostitution, then obviously they must have had some conversations of note. Why wouldn't she know MJD's real name? I know why she might be confused about MJD's street name, but generally--don't you get a name from someone you're having a conversation with?

2) In the last interview with Lindsey, why did she keep referring to Alonzo as "William"?

3) In the first part of the report, when Lindsey said something about someone only being in AZ for two months, did she mean *herself* or did she mean MJD?

After reading the report, I would want to talk to the neighbor some more. I'm also curious about the girl who they originally thought was MJD (that Monica girl).

I thought the same things, Aphra. I mean if you are comfortable enough to discuss prostitution with them and try to get her to leave, how could you not know her name? She had to have been a little more than a passing acquaintence, I would think.

I caught the William reference too. I wonder if it was just a strange typo of some sort (along with the "bark" blue cadillac).

ALot of Lindsey's statements were confusing to me. Of course, I just got the report and only scanned it quickly, I didn't read it for detail the first time, but it seemed like her stories were a little (or a lot) different depending on which investigator she was speaking to at the time. And I too would like to know who's Rolex it was. That surprised me! I thought for sure it would be a knock-off, but it did say Rolex "brand".

[BeavisMom62]

the left side of her face is pretty significantly wider because of swelling.

I say call it in (and I was skeptical about Coral being MJD too). Does Michaela Garecht have an age progressed photo?

Personally, I like Michaela better than Coral. I agree with Lion, I really don't see the resemblance in their faces.

[Cubby]

Thanks Lionrun, I don't think their is a strong enough resemblence between Coral and MJD either. I don't believe that MJD was ever reported missing, which could be for various reasons.

[Cubby]

I reread the report, I can see how the reference to "she's only been in Arizona for two months" could refer to either LDJ or MDJ and nothing we have found has indicated either were in PHX any longer.

[believe09]

And who had a damn Rolex! I want to know if that was a man's watch or a woman's watch. MJD had diamonds, is it possible she had a Rolex, too?


I would think if our girl had a rolex on her while she was walking the street then she was truly an innocent because that would get you at least rolled by someone....I think it was Alonzo's or stolen from someone else.

[Aphra]

Actually, Michaela's too old to be MJD. She would've been 20 at the time, old enough to dance in strip clubs or whatever.

[believe09]

So we have a girl who was at maximum 15, and not savvy enough to lie about her age when she went to the club to apply to be a stripper, who cared about her appearance and who inspired (allegedly that is, I am referring to Robin's witness statement) in others the thought that she could or should be rescued from the life. If there is any truth at all to LDJ's statements, our girl was resourceful-claiming that she was going to throw up and possibly trying to get out the window of the moving vehicle. She wore real jewelry, but had a homemade tattoo on her chest...a small cheesy blue heart about 1x1 inch.

She was seen, allegedly, fighting with KTL (her purported pimp)...mind you it was a vigorous arguement that was noticed by the sales manager of the car dealership it occurred in front of. So she was at least somewhat gutsy.

A gutsy, reasonably well put together, petite, beautiful teenager who no one really knew...there has to be someone out there who matches this description.

[Aphra]

I'm currently combing adoption sites through archive.org from 1998 or before to see if maybe this girl was listed on one of these sites--I am going with the theory that she ran away from a foster home. We'll see. I'm not sure I'll find anything.

[Cubby]

I talked to my friend in AZ. Nothing in that end... there are loads of strip clubs in AZ, and MJD would have been younger than his youngest son who was born in 82. My guess is MJD would have a birth year of 83. After reading LE put pics and info in all the "gentlemens clubs", it appears to be a dead end. I could ask one more time, as we had a mutual friend who fell off the wagon and was found dead from alcohol poisening near 24th and Van Buren, but I am unsure of the year that happened, and these were both guys in the trades who went out there. The guy who died from the alcohol poisening remodeled my kitchen and did a great job fwiw. Maybe he still knows of anyone who associated with the guy who died... though, I never knew of either of them frequenting prostitutes.

ETA: While I was talking to my friend last night and sharing bits and pc's of the report, I mentioned how well groomed she was, and the real diamonds and gold... This friend has been in some trouble himself, and I would call him very street wise. He mentioned she could have gotten them anywhere... possibly stealing them, which I hadn't thought of. though, I imagine she wasn't on the streets long or she would have needed to pawn them.

[Auburnmommyof2]

So we have a girl who was at maximum 15, and not savvy enough to lie about her age when she went to the club to apply to be a stripper, who cared about her appearance and who inspired (allegedly that is, I am referring to Robin's witness statement) in others the thought that she could or should be rescued from the life. If there is any truth at all to LDJ's statements, our girl was resourceful-claiming that she was going to throw up and possibly trying to get out the window of the moving vehicle. She wore real jewelry, but had a homemade tattoo on her chest...a small cheesy blue heart about 1x1 inch.

She was seen, allegedly, fighting with KTL (her purported pimp)...mind you it was a vigorous arguement that was noticed by the sales manager of the car dealership it occurred in front of. So she was at least somewhat gutsy.

A gutsy, reasonably well put together, petite, beautiful teenager who no one really knew...there has to be someone out there who matches this description.

I don't think it was KTL she was fighting with because he was in jail, right?

[Auburnmommyof2]

Ok, scratch that...he must have gone to jail after the end of Feb 99. Has anyone else read this court document about the child abuse? I firmly believe the child in this case knows who our MJD is!!

[Auburnmommyof2]

Would anyone else be intersted in chatting on YIM about this case sometime?

[Angie4b1g]

I'm Angie4b1g on YIM

[Teresa Larson]

Aside from the height difference, Coral had a scar on the lower part of her neck. Has anyone contacted LE to see what kind of a scar it was? We know that jane doe had so much road rash on her body, distinguishing marks on her limbs might have been tough to see, but her face and neck look OK and I do not see a mention of a neck scar....

Suzy said it was not a scar on her face. It was from the tape that held the tubes.

[believe09]

Suzy said it was not a scar on her face. It was from the tape that held the tubes.


Yup-I knew that the first time I saw her picture, but I am familiar with that kind of tape and tubing etc...and what it looks like when one comes out.

We were speaking of Coral Hall who had a neck scar-did MJD? Not that I can see. MJD's DNA is in CODIS-is Coral's?

From the last Coral Hall story, it looks like those closest to her believe that she died within the state. What made her two friends hold onto her planner from 1991-2004 before they turned it into police? Hmmm...

[believe09]

Someone mentioned on a previous post that LDJ has a warrant out-I would suspect that this might make her reluctant to speak with us sleuthers and perhaps is why she did not respond to the MySpace request?

What other actions can we take to get the word out in Milwaukee and Mojave County that there is a chance Jane Doe came from one or more of those locations????

[Zanko]

William JXXXX WXXXX, birth date 6/10/67, has 15 aliases including Alonzo Decarlos Fernandez. But how could this be the same person? Alonzo was tried and convicted, under an alias???? Is this the same guy????

I figured it wasn't the same guy, until I read the police report and Lindsey kept referring to Alonzo as William!

Since it's public info, can I post his full name? Moderators?

[adnoid]

William JXXXX WXXXX, birth date 6/10/67, has 15 aliases including Alonzo Decarlos Fernandez. But how could this be the same person? Alonzo was tried and convicted, under an alias???? Is this the same guy????

I figured it wasn't the same guy, until I read the police report and Lindsey kept referring to Alonzo as William!

Since it's public info, can I post his full name? Moderators?

Provide a link to a public source, and sure.

[Zanko]

It's not that easy. It's public record, but you've got to pay for it. Maybe there's a way around that. I'll do some research.

[christine2448]

Alonso is an alias, his name is William.

[Angie4b1g]

Huh. Learning lots today. :)

[Aphra]

but they have different birthdays, don't they? i thought alonso was born in 71.

ETA: wait, no, that was MJD's pimp.

[Zanko]

How do you know for sure Christine2448?

[christine2448]

In our dealings w/LE, reporters, etc over the last couple of weeks he is being referred to as William and Alonso as alias....I didn't catch on at first......and if you know me, you know I have memory problems and so much is going on. :crazy: So many names, I honestly can hardly keep up with it all y'all.

Eta...maybe I am confusing it....I need to talk w/Believe and see if she can help me remember. Maybe there is another William involved......I am almost sure Alonso has the name William.

[Auburnmommyof2]

I'm so confused...lol...how can his name be William but charges are in his alias?

[Angie4b1g]

I don't know much about the prostitution world, but I could maybe see her having diamonds if she was "new" to it. Like, I could see a pimp showering her with that stuff like "look what nice stuff you can have if you do this", kwim? I don't think she was at it for long.

[christine2448]

WS has a chat set up for everyone to discuss cases.


The chat room is open if anyone is interested in chatting about this case! Come in anytime you all want to talk real time! Open even if a mod is not present--just behave ok?

http://www.stormdancing.net/network/java/chat1.html (http://www.stormdancing.net/network/java/chat1.html)

put your nick in the top space, then type websleuths in the place for channel.

If you cannot get into chat first try updating your Java.. www.java.com (http://www.java.com/)

If that does not work do the following:


Go to www.mirc.com (http://www.mirc.com/) and download the version for your windows operating system. (ie, XP 98 etc)
(mirc is perfectly safe and will not ad spyware or unwanted toolbars to your pc)

Do not use your real email or name when promted.
just type Me@whereever.com and in the name box put your user name.

Once installed you can launch mIRC and then do the following..
`Click on File (first option on the menu across the top)...
~click on select server
~click add.
This will open a new box, in that box type the following (or copy and paste from below)
~In Description type Stormdancing
~In Irc server 208.185.81.243
~in the ports box 6667,7000
Leave the group and password boxes empty then click ADD
Then connect to server.

You will only have to add that information the first time you connect.
After that it will automatically connect to that chat server.

Once connected type the following /join #websleuths

[Cubby]

Tried to log in, keep getting cannot connect to server. oh well....

[Cubby]

Alonso is an alias, his name is William.


LE had a report in 99 with the name William and this is just coming to light now? :bang:

[christine2448]

Tried to log in, keep getting cannot connect to server. oh well....

MIRC is the best way to go, you only have to set it up once, it's easy....then you will always have it :)

[Teresa Larson]

It was one of the truckers who witnessed it that said he saw her "come straight out the passengers side window and land on the pavement rolling continously".

I am sorry you were correct FMW. It isn't stated until further in the report that the truck driver did say he saw her come out the window. I wonder why the first report didn't state that? I hope that statement is correctly stated since there are some discrepancies in the written reports.

[fmw63]

I am sorry you were correct FMW. It isn't stated until further in the report that the truck driver did say he saw her come out the window. I wonder why the first report didn't state that? I hope that statement is correctly stated since there are some discrepancies in the written reports.

I don't have it in front of me, but I think first statement is from the driver of the truck, the second is from his co-driver.

[Auburnmommyof2]

It also appears that the report includes reports from different officers

[christine2448]

Chat was not working correctly but all is well now...see a few posts back to get directions to get there.

Also, I do have yahoo IM too and added those that put theirs up, mine is websleuther2448 :D :woohoo:

[Auburnmommyof2]

mine is pesga75, i show up as invisible though

[Teresa Larson]

I think yahoo is much easier to use. My yahoo name is bblady28 add me if you want to.

[ArizonaGiGi]

did anyone ever get the copy of the police report?
I never saw it posted if so. I wanna see that.

[believe09]

I don't have it in front of me, but I think first statement is from the driver of the truck, the second is from his co-driver.


FMW is correct; sorry I missed the chat guys-migraine got me yesterday but is gone now....a side note, not a play for sympathy lol.

What did I miss and what can I help with??

[believe09]

did anyone ever get the copy of the police report?
I never saw it posted if so. I wanna see that.

send me your email addy and I will send a copy.

[rccook555]

Believe09, sorry if i missed this somewhere but did you hear anything back about Rachael Dawn Hayson? Thanks!!!

[Marstan]

In our dealings w/LE, reporters, etc over the last couple of weeks he is being referred to as William and Alonso as alias....I didn't catch on at first......and if you know me, you know I have memory problems and so much is going on. :crazy: So many names, I honestly can hardly keep up with it all y'all.

Eta...maybe I am confusing it....I need to talk w/Believe and see if she can help me remember. Maybe there is another William involved......I am almost sure Alonso has the name William.

I don't know if you know about this site or not - it is free and you could look up all the alias names this guy used. It is:

http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/search.asp?id=

It is very easy to use but it will not give info about juveniles.

[Zanko]

I don't know if you know about this site or not - it is free and you could look up all the alias names this guy used. It is:

http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/search.asp?id=

It is very easy to use but it will not give info about juveniles.

Great website! Thanks!

[BeavisMom62]

It also appears that the report includes reports from different officers
Yeah, that is a little confusing because it seems in each report from a different officer that spoke with Lindsey, her story is a little different in each one. Makes it hard to know which of her stories is true. I thought that there were more witnesses thatn the truck driver's but there are no statements in the report from any other witnesses, are there? Or am I missing something? I haven't read the whole thing in detail yet.

[believe09]

Yeah, that is a little confusing because it seems in each report from a different officer that spoke with Lindsey, her story is a little different in each one. Makes it hard to know which of her stories is true. I thought that there were more witnesses thatn the truck driver's but there are no statements in the report from any other witnesses, are there? Or am I missing something? I haven't read the whole thing in detail yet.

There are lots of statements-statements of her pimp who denies knowing her, statements from people who witnessed her streetwalking and talked to her about it....keep reading.

For me, on the criminal side, there is much to condemn William and LDJ. Wonder how the evidence tape was broken on the door of the car after it was towed and what might have been missing before the police even got a chance to inventory the car?

But-in terms of helping us ID Jane Doe, we have a lot more than we did. I would like to get a picture of the ring circulated and run down it's maker etc...

[believe09]

Believe09, sorry if i missed this somewhere but did you hear anything back about Rachael Dawn Hayson? Thanks!!!


Hi!! Nothing yet and it is just about time for me to circle back and check...thank you for the reminder!:blowkiss:

[Auburnmommyof2]

I want to bounce something off ya'll...the guy at the dealership said he recognized the black male from tv related to this case arguing with MJD the same day she thrown/jumped from the car. If the news had a black male on tv related to the case that day, wouldn't it have most likely been AF? Or did they run reports showing KTL's picture? So who was she arguing with, KTL, AF? And who is KC Slim? Did anyone else find this odd?

[fmw63]

I want to bounce something off ya'll...the guy at the dealership said he recognized the black male from tv related to this case arguing with MJD the same day she thrown/jumped from the car. If the news had a black male on tv related to the case that day, wouldn't it have most likely been AF? Or did they run reports showing KTL's picture? So who was she arguing with, KTL, AF? And who is KC Slim? Did anyone else find this odd?

My guess was Alonzo. I also wondered if the 2nd girl arguing was Lindsey.

[believe09]

My guess was Alonzo. I also wondered if the 2nd girl arguing was Lindsey.

See now i thought it was KTL-good catch y'all. I assumed the sales manager was referring to the pimp who was in custody for trafficking a 13 year old from the east coast, which was kTL...

We need the pictures...what does LDJ look like on her myspace? Of course this event was almost 10 years ago, but the sales manager referred to a tiny slight girl (MJD) and a rounder one....

[VASHLEY88]

Ahhh! I missed out on so much. But I'm back for good now!! Everyone, you have all done an outstanding job!!

What can I do to help? I have some numbers to call to follow up on tomorrow, for group homes, I think.

[Fairy1]

I've been out of town for a couple of days and am catching up on the comments - also just read part 1 of the report again - and have some comments/questions:

I don't see where it was ever established whether they were headed for Miami, AZ or Miami, FL. If it was Florida - 3,000 miles away - why would MJD think she was going to get "beaten up?" I can't see a low-life pimp going to too much trouble to find a stray woman. He would have just found another one. This "story" does not jive with me at all.

Both Alonzo and Lindsey said they "thought" MJD was a prostitute. They really didn't know - or so they say.

Nearly - if not all - of the responding officer's reports say they were dispatched to a scene in reference to a girl who was "thrown" from a car. None of them - before speaking to Alonzo and Lindsey - say she may have fallen or jumped.

Where did the other items found in the emergency lane with MJD come from? Condoms, clothing (other than what she was wearing), bunge cord...Did she have them in her pocket? I think not.

How do we know all of MJD's jewelry was "real." The reports refer to "clear stones" (not diamonds) and "gold-colored" (not pure gold).

Regarding the razors they found - what was the "possible residue" and was it ever tested?

What type of "papers" were seized?

I am still interested in why LE has reason to believe she was from Mohave County. I'm not sure we should invest too much time into this angle until we know the answer..

I've seen that LDJ has (had?) a warrant. Is that from then or from now? They released the vehicle to her....makes me think there was no warrant then.

If Lindsey worked for Alonzo, their boyfriend-girlfriend relationship would not have been our definition of a relationship. We should all keep that in mind.

Nearly everything we think we know came from LDJ and Alonzo. Sorry, but I just cannot bring myself to put much stock in anything they say. Even if she did tell them her "name" - it may not have been her real name. Whatever she told them - if anything - may not have been true.

OK - have to read part 2 again......

[Auburnmommyof2]

I'm going to attempt to give my thoughts in red here..
I've been out of town for a couple of days and am catching up on the comments - also just read part 1 of the report again - and have some comments/questions:

I don't see where it was ever established whether they were headed for Miami, AZ or Miami, FL. If it was Florida - 3,000 miles away - why would MJD think she was going to get "beaten up?" I can't see a low-life pimp going to too much trouble to find a stray woman. He would have just found another one. This "story" does not jive with me at all.I did read that one of them did say FL. I agree that the story doesn't jive.

Both Alonzo and Lindsey said they "thought" MJD was a prostitute. They really didn't know - or so they say.

Nearly - if not all - of the responding officer's reports say they were dispatched to a scene in reference to a girl who was "thrown" from a car. None of them - before speaking to Alonzo and Lindsey - say she may have fallen or jumped.

Where did the other items found in the emergency lane with MJD come from? Condoms, clothing (other than what she was wearing), bunge cord...Did she have them in her pocket? I think not. Were these items in the car or on the road?

How do we know all of MJD's jewelry was "real." The reports refer to "clear stones" (not diamonds) and "gold-colored" (not pure gold).There is a report from a jewler. I think in part 2

Regarding the razors they found - what was the "possible residue" and was it ever tested?

What type of "papers" were seized?

I am still interested in why LE has reason to believe she was from Mohave County. I'm not sure we should invest too much time into this angle until we know the answer..

I've seen that LDJ has (had?) a warrant. Is that from then or from now? They released the vehicle to her....makes me think there was no warrant then. I'm not sure about the dates, I'll go back and look. Supposidly she was leaving for WA after one of the interviews with police. If the FTA was after, then I assume she either never went to WA or came back to AZ.

If Lindsey worked for Alonzo, their boyfriend-girlfriend relationship would not have been our definition of a relationship. We should all keep that in mind. I wonder why Alonzo released the car to her (thinking about their relationship)

Nearly everything we think we know came from LDJ and Alonzo. Sorry, but I just cannot bring myself to put much stock in anything they say. Even if she did tell them her "name" - it may not have been her real name. Whatever she told them - if anything - may not have been true. I'm beginning to think they knew her for longer than either one admit.

OK - have to read part 2 again......

[Fairy1]

I do have to read part 2 again - but in part 1 - it does state that those other items were located in the emergency lane of the highway - outside of the car.

I do not think they knew her at all before that afternoon. However, I have a difficult time reconciling the fact that she does not seem like a "street level" prostitute, yet she would get into a car with complete strangers and agree to drive 3,000 miles with them. I just can't take everything Alonzo and Lindsey have said at face value.

OTOH - we are just trying to identify our little MJD and not solve a crime. Unfortunately, the only "facts" we have are based on statements made by low-life criminals and tied to her alleged life of prostitution - even though much of the physical evidence says otherwise.

[Auburnmommyof2]

After reading part 1 again, i thought that maybe the bungee cord could have belonged to someone who stopped to help. The floral sheet was placed there by a passer-by who stopped to render aid, maybe the sheet was in their car and the bungee cord was with it?

[Auburnmommyof2]

There is also no mention of anyone removing the necklace, did anyone else notice that? It did say the clothing was removed by emergancey personnel but no mention of the necklace. Could it not have been on MJD?

[Fairy1]

There is also no mention of anyone removing the necklace, did anyone else notice that? It did say the clothing was removed by emergancey personnel but no mention of the necklace. Could it not have been on MJD?

You know, I didn't really think of the necklace being there as odd, but now that I think about it, maybe it is. Is it possible it came off in the "fall" or could it have been something else. Was this the one with the cross and the ring?

[Auburnmommyof2]

You know, I didn't really think of the necklace being there as odd, but now that I think about it, maybe it is. Is it possible it came off in the "fall" or could it have been something else. Was this the one with the cross and the ring?
It is my understanding that it is the necklace with the cross and the ring.

[Teresa Larson]

There is also no mention of anyone removing the necklace, did anyone else notice that? It did say the clothing was removed by emergancey personnel but no mention of the necklace. Could it not have been on MJD?

I think the paramedics were probably so worried about trying to save her life they never gave it a thought to write anything down about the necklace. I wonder where MJD's pimp (Kelly Lipsey) went to after he got out of jail? He probably knew her name and where she came from. I also wonder if the policeman made and error when he was referring to Alonzo as William in the police report. It's seems funny that any other time Lindsey spoke of him she refereed to him as Alonzo not William.

[believe09]

I think the paramedics were probably so worried about trying to save her life they never gave it a thought to write anything down about the necklace. I wonder where MJD's pimp (Kelly Lipsey) went to after he got out of jail? He probably knew her name and where she came from. I also wonder if the policeman made and error when he was referring to Alonzo as William in the police report. It's seems funny that any other time Lindsey spoke of him she refereed to him as Alonzo not William.

KTL is in the middle of a trial for pandering and receiving money from a prostitute as well as money laundering right now (In Maricopa County). There is a bench warrant issued in the trial for a failure to appear, but I cannot tell who it is for. There are 3-4 defendants and he is one.

The charges regarding the minor appear to be ongoing as well, if you can believe that-there is a probation violation charge associated with that case from 5/13/2008.

please see;
http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/partylist.asp?id=

[believe09]

I think the paramedics were probably so worried about trying to save her life they never gave it a thought to write anything down about the necklace. I wonder where MJD's pimp (Kelly Lipsey) went to after he got out of jail? He probably knew her name and where she came from. I also wonder if the policeman made and error when he was referring to Alonzo as William in the police report. It's seems funny that any other time Lindsey spoke of him she refereed to him as Alonzo not William.

KTL is MJD's presumptive pimp, I think...it is a fair assumption that has not been proven...

[Auburnmommyof2]

I think the paramedics were probably so worried about trying to save her life they never gave it a thought to write anything down about the necklace. I wonder where MJD's pimp (Kelly Lipsey) went to after he got out of jail? He probably knew her name and where she came from. I also wonder if the policeman made and error when he was referring to Alonzo as William in the police report. It's seems funny that any other time Lindsey spoke of him she refereed to him as Alonzo not William.
There is explination on the thread about the Alonzo/William thing, Alonzo is his alias iirc. About the necklace, I just thought it was interesting that it was noted that the closthes were removed but not that the necklace was removed. We've been putting a lot of emphasis on the necklace and ring in IDing MJD and just thought I'd mention it. I still think its probably her's.

[fmw63]

I don't know if you know about this site or not - it is free and you could look up all the alias names this guy used. It is:

http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/search.asp?id=



How do I do that?

[believe09]

How do I do that?

I cannot figure this out either. This is our case number at the same website;
Case Number: S-1100-CR-99025155

You can see that his probation was revoked and a warrant issued for 1999-perhaps some of the more law savvy people can walk me through the case? Looks like the warrant has been reviewed etc and changed to an evidence suppression one?

[believe09]

Hey folks: look what I found on the Maricopa County Sherriff's website of booking photo's:

The DOB listed is 7/28/1979...isn't our boy's 7/28/1972???

http://www.mcso.org/index.php?a=GetModule&mn=Mugshot

here is the booking info:
FERNANDEZ-FERNAND, VINCENT #P429506

[Marstan]

There is a post above, I will go look for it that has multiple alias names for Alfonzo (first and last names) just type in the name in the blocks, you can assume he is using the same dob and see if there are any other charges against him. I will do it on Alonzo and try to copy and paste here.

How do I do that?

[Marstan]

CASE DETAIL http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/casedetail.asp?cs_id=ioiogqma&crt_name=Pinal%20County%20Superior (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/casedetail.asp?cs_id=ioiogqma&crt_name=Pinal%20County%20Superior)
Case Number: S-1100-CR-99025155Case Category: CriminalCase Title: ST VS FERNANDEZCourt: Pinal County SuperiorJudge: THE HON JANNA L VANDERPOOLFiling Date: 02/04/1999Disposition Date: 05/17/1999
Party Name: ALONZO FERNANDEZParty Type: D 1 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth: 07/28/1972Citation: CNONE Count 1: HIT AND RUN DEATH/INJURYDisposition Date: 05/17/1999Disposition: JDGMT GUILTY/RESP SENT IMPOSEDCount 2: POSSESS/USE MARIJUANA < 2#Disposition Date: 05/17/1999Disposition: COURT DISMISSALCount 3: MANSLAUGHTER-RECKLESSDisposition Date: 05/17/1999Disposition: COURT DISMISSAL
Party Name: RESTRICTEDParty Type: D 2 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth:
Party Name: RESTRICTEDParty Type: D 3 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth:
Party Name: RESTRICTEDParty Type: D 4 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth:
Party Name: STATE OF ARIZONAParty Type: P 1 - PLNTIF/PETITNERDate of Birth:
Event DateEvent DescriptionParty1/27/2009 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 4/24/2008 COMPARISON/COPY FEE PER PAGE D 1 1/22/2008 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 1/22/2008 ME: SET/CONT REV PROB VIOL WAR D 1 1/8/2008 NTC: SETTING/CONTINUING D 1 1/23/2007 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 1/23/2007 ME: SET/CONT REV PROB VIOL WAR D 1 1/19/2007 NTC: TRANSFER OF CASE D 1 1/24/2006 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 1/24/2006 ME: SET/CONT REV PROB VIOL WAR D 1 1/24/2006 CAL: REVIEW BENCH WARRANT 1/9/2006 ME: REASSIGNMENT OF JUDGE D 1 1/25/2005 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 1/25/2005 ME: SET/CONT REV PROB VIOL WAR D 1 1/27/2004 ME: SET/CONT REV PROB VIOL WAR D 1 1/27/2004 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 1/22/2003 ME: SET/CONT REV PROB VIOL WAR D 1 1/22/2003 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 12/17/2002 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 12/17/2002 ME: SET/CONT REV PROB VIOL WAR D 1 9/17/2002 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 9/17/2002 ME: SET/CONT REV PROB VIOL WAR D 1 3/19/2002 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 3/19/2002 ME: SET/CONT REV PROB VIOL WAR D 1 9/18/2001 ME: REVIEW OF WARRANT D 1 9/18/2001 CAL: REVIEW VIOLATION WARRANT 3/13/2001 ME: REVIEW OF WARRANT D 1 9/13/2000 ME: REVIEW OF WARRANT D 1 3/14/2000 ME: REVIEW OF WARRANT D 1 9/17/1999 PET REVOKE PROB & ORD WAR/SUM D 1 9/17/1999 PET REVOKE PROB WARRANT ISS/CR D 1 8/9/1999 SUPV PROBATION-DISPO ONLY D 1 8/9/1999 DIVERSION-DISPO SCREEN ONLY D 1 8/9/1999 JAIL/PRISON-DISPO ONLY D 1 6/30/1999 ORDER GRANT MOT TO WITHDRAW D 1 6/10/1999 MOTION TO WITHDRAW D 1 5/17/1999 JDGMT SUSP SENT/IMPOS TRM PROB D 1 5/17/1999 RELEASE ORDER D 1 5/17/1999 CLERK STAT NTC OF FEL CNVICTN D 1 5/17/1999 NOTICE RIGHT OF REVIEW AFT CNV D 1 5/17/1999 ADULT PROB FEES DECLINING BAL D 1 5/17/1999 SENTENCE OF PROBATION D 1 5/17/1999 ME: ACCPT GLTY PLEA/IMPOS SENT D 1 5/13/1999 PRESENTENCE REPORT D 1 4/19/1999 ME: CHANGE OF PLEA HRG D 1 4/14/1999 PLEA AGREEMENT D 1 4/13/1999 NOTICE OF DISCLOSURE D 1 4/9/1999 ME: ORDER SETTING D 1 3/26/1999 ME: RELEASE HRG D 1 3/26/1999 ME: ORDER CONTINUING D 1 3/12/1999 NOTICE OF HRG D 1 3/12/1999 MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION D 1 3/11/1999 NOTICE OF DISCLOSURE D 1 3/11/1999 ORDER OF DISMISSAL/CASE D 1 3/10/1999 RESPONSE TO MOTION D 1 3/9/1999 NOTICE OF CHANGE OF PLEA HRG D 1 3/3/1999 NOTICE OF DISCLOSURE P 1 3/3/1999 DISCOVERY DISCLOSURE P 1 2/26/1999 TRANSCRIPT GRAND JURY PROCDNGS D 1 2/19/1999 DISCLOSURE STATEMENT BY PLTF P 1 2/18/1999 MOTION TO DISMISS P 1 2/16/1999 NOTICE PROSECUTNG ATTY ASSGNMT D 1 2/12/1999 ME: ARRAIGNMENT D 1 2/12/1999 NOTICE OF APPEARANCE D 1 2/10/1999 TRANSMITTAL CERTIFICATE FROM D 1 2/4/1999 ME: GRAND JURY INDICTMENT D 1 2/4/1999 INDICTMENT D 1 1/1/1950 CONTRACT AUDITED D 1
Click here (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/courtinfo.asp?id=&CourtID2=136) for court contact information.
©2002 Arizona Supreme Court. All Rights Reserved.

[Marstan]

Home (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/default.asp?id=) | New Search (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/search.asp?id=) | Frequently Asked Questions (https://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/pa4_notify_ui/faqs.aspx)
CASE DETAIL
Case Number: M-0741-2079216Case Category: CriminalCase Title: St of Az vs DEJONGCourt: Phoenix MunicipalJudge: UNKNOWNFiling Date: 11/18/1998Disposition Date: 07/02/2005
Party Name: LINDSEY D DEJONGParty Type: D 1 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth: 07/30/1980Citation: PCP8917134 Count 1: LOCAL CHARGEDisposition Date: 12/08/1999Disposition: FTA WARRANT ISSUEDCitation: PCP8914519 Count 1: LOCAL CHARGEDisposition Date: 12/08/1999Disposition: FTA WARRANT ISSUEDCitation: PCP8918065 Count 1: LOCAL CHARGEDisposition Date: 12/08/1999Disposition: FTA WARRANT ISSUED

Lindsey has three warrants which may be why she won't talk to anyone. Since they were misdemeanors, they would not extredite anyway and they would no longer be relevant, except maybe to collect the fines.

[believe09]

Home (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/default.asp?id=) | New Search (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/search.asp?id=) | Frequently Asked Questions (https://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/pa4_notify_ui/faqs.aspx)
CASE DETAIL
Case Number: M-0741-2079216Case Category: CriminalCase Title: St of Az vs DEJONGCourt: Phoenix MunicipalJudge: UNKNOWNFiling Date: 11/18/1998Disposition Date: 07/02/2005
Party Name: LINDSEY D DEJONGParty Type: D 1 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth: 07/30/1980Citation: PCP8917134 Count 1: LOCAL CHARGEDisposition Date: 12/08/1999Disposition: FTA WARRANT ISSUEDCitation: PCP8914519 Count 1: LOCAL CHARGEDisposition Date: 12/08/1999Disposition: FTA WARRANT ISSUEDCitation: PCP8918065 Count 1: LOCAL CHARGEDisposition Date: 12/08/1999Disposition: FTA WARRANT ISSUED

Lindsey has three warrants which may be why she won't talk to anyone. Since they were misdemeanors, they would not extredite anyway and they would no longer be relevant, except maybe to collect the fines.

FTA= Failure to Appear, is that correct? Thanks for the work Marstan!! Where are Alonzo's aliases?

[Auburnmommyof2]

Home (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/default.asp?id=) | New Search (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/search.asp?id=) | Frequently Asked Questions (https://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/pa4_notify_ui/faqs.aspx)
CASE DETAIL
Case Number: M-0741-2079216Case Category: CriminalCase Title: St of Az vs DEJONGCourt: Phoenix MunicipalJudge: UNKNOWNFiling Date: 11/18/1998Disposition Date: 07/02/2005
Party Name: LINDSEY D DEJONGParty Type: D 1 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth: 07/30/1980Citation: PCP8917134 Count 1: LOCAL CHARGEDisposition Date: 12/08/1999Disposition: FTA WARRANT ISSUEDCitation: PCP8914519 Count 1: LOCAL CHARGEDisposition Date: 12/08/1999Disposition: FTA WARRANT ISSUEDCitation: PCP8918065 Count 1: LOCAL CHARGEDisposition Date: 12/08/1999Disposition: FTA WARRANT ISSUED

Lindsey has three warrants which may be why she won't talk to anyone. Since they were misdemeanors, they would not extredite anyway and they would no longer be relevant, except maybe to collect the fines.
Thank you for getting this information to post. I had posted about her FTA but then couldn't find it again on the AZ website.

[Cubby]

Does anyone know how the interviews/article went with the reporter Christine was working with? Any info is appreciated.

[Marstan]

FTA= Failure to Appear, is that correct? Thanks for the work Marstan!! Where are Alonzo's aliases?

I don't know, they were not on the police reports I received. It was posted here some where but I am not sure. Perhaps it was from the Maricopa Web site? anyone?

[Cubby]

I'm pretty sure FTA is the abbreviation for fail to appear.

While I, as we all, are looking to ID MJD as the basis of this forum, it appears Alonzo, William or whoever he is, had an extremely light sentance with the initial charges and made out with a plea bargian.

I would hope, LDJ, Alonzo, Kelly -with a rap sheet a mile long- and whomever else are involved in this case would realize just how much may be at stake with this case being reopened as a result of our inquiries attempting to ID MJD. LDJ, imo, has much to lose as a parent. Though, I am quite certain LE will continue to act as if this case is as cold as it was a decade ago until they have anything solid for charges. Not sure I would "bank" on that as a parent. I know I wouldn't.

As believe said, let's let LE take care of their case, and let's focus on MJD's name.

[Zanko]

In LDJ's last statement in the police report she says that they were driving around and that MJD DID NOT WANT TO GO with them. I believe they were planning on going to Tuscan before Miami. The statement goes on to say that Alonzo would NOT let her out.

If she was a prostitute, she would be in serious danger if she was to "skip out" on a pimp. Most street prostitution is controlled by various gangs. It's not just "local thugs". These guys have networks all over the country. Maybe she got in the car thinking that she would escape her pimp and then panicked, or maybe she never intended to leave town. I personally think that if Alonzo wasn't working WITH her pimp, he would have had some serious repercussions for taking MJD. This makes me think that maybe MJD's pimp was using Alonzo as some sort of enforcer of some wrong doing on MJD's part. MJD may have figured this out and really had nothing to lose by jumping out the window. Just another theory I suppose.

[christine2448]

Cubby,

I have 3/4 people + Tricia who are helping (willing to be interviewed) with the story on WS/MJD. The reporter will receive everyone's contact info by this evening and things should start rolling.

[Cubby]

In LDJ's last statement in the police report she says that they were driving around and that MJD DID NOT WANT TO GO with them. I believe they were planning on going to Tuscan before Miami. The statement goes on to say that Alonzo would NOT let her out.

If she was a prostitute, she would be in serious danger if she was to "skip out" on a pimp. Most street prostitution is controlled by various gangs. It's not just "local thugs". These guys have networks all over the country. Maybe she got in the car thinking that she would escape her pimp and then panicked, or maybe she never intended to leave town. I personally think that if Alonzo wasn't working WITH her pimp, he would have had some serious repercussions for taking MJD. This makes me think that maybe MJD's pimp was using Alonzo as some sort of enforcer of some wrong doing on MJD's part. MJD may have figured this out and really had nothing to lose by jumping out the window. Just another theory I suppose.


I tend to buy that theory, remember LDJ said- in her first statement, "why does she always have to mess with the wrong people'", alone leads me to believe MJD and Alonzo- or any of his aliasis- had at least one prior occasion to meet up with MJD. I don't think MJD tried to "skip out" I think she thought she was "bad" and pushed the wrong buttons and hopped into Alonzo's car to prove she was "all that", not really knowing exactly what she was getting into, and once she realized she did her best to get out of the car and as a last ditch effort either pretended to need to throw up hoping they would pull over not wanting puke everywhere, and she was "helped" with with jumping out herself.

[believe09]

In LDJ's last statement in the police report she says that they were driving around and that MJD DID NOT WANT TO GO with them. I believe they were planning on going to Tuscan before Miami. The statement goes on to say that Alonzo would NOT let her out.

If she was a prostitute, she would be in serious danger if she was to "skip out" on a pimp. Most street prostitution is controlled by various gangs. It's not just "local thugs". These guys have networks all over the country. Maybe she got in the car thinking that she would escape her pimp and then panicked, or maybe she never intended to leave town. I personally think that if Alonzo wasn't working WITH her pimp, he would have had some serious repercussions for taking MJD. This makes me think that maybe MJD's pimp was using Alonzo as some sort of enforcer of some wrong doing on MJD's part. MJD may have figured this out and really had nothing to lose by jumping out the window. Just another theory I suppose.


I am assuming this statement was most credible of LDJ's simply because Alonzo was in jail, so not such a big threat to her. She was heading out on a plane to Washington, so had little to lose by being accurate in this way.

now, what might MDJ have left behind in the vehicle if she felt strongly about either exiting the car or was pushed out because of something that might have happened between her and her pimp? if you look at the evidence list, she might have left shoes behind, but nothing else??? Even if she was turning tricks she would have had to have a place to store her money. And the evidence tape on the driver's side door was breached.....

If it was Alonzo who was her pimp and not KTL, then my theory goes back to step one about looking to Milwaukee or the East Coast for her ID. I still believe that LDJ and Alonzo know exactly who she is...now how can we find that out??

[Bree0372]

I am assuming this statement was most credible of LDJ's simply because Alonzo was in jail, so not such a big threat to her. She was heading out on a plane to Washington, so had little to lose by being accurate in this way.

now, what might MDJ have left behind in the vehicle if she felt strongly about either exiting the car or was pushed out because of something that might have happened between her and her pimp? if you look at the evidence list, she might have left shoes behind, but nothing else??? Even if she was turning tricks she would have had to have a place to store her money. And the evidence tape on the driver's side door was breached.....

If it was Alonzo who was her pimp and not KTL, then my theory goes back to step one about looking to Milwaukee or the East Coast for her ID. I still believe that LDJ and Alonzo know exactly who she is...now how can we find that out??

IN LDJ's last statement (which I believe is the most honest statement she made), she alluded to the fact that they were moving to Tuscon. I thought, from the beginning, the whole Miami thing was made up. Most likely, they were synchronizing their stories as they were fleeing the scene - they had to have time to discuss what they were going to tell the police when they were caught.

I also believe that when MJD was picked up she thought she was going to turn a trick - not leave the area. IMO, I think Alonzo wanted more from her - he could use her to make him some more "easy money". Afterall, if MJD's pimp caught her working for someone else, it wouldn't be Alonzo that would get the crap beat out of him (no sweat off his back). I do believe MJD asked him to let her out, but he had other ideas for her. He may have saw her as disposable at that point. I think that when she leaned out to throw up - possibly from the drugs - he had LDJ assist her with the "jump" (this way his hands were clean - so to speak - he didn't push her afterall). Again, she would have to have some type of leverage with her legs to leap out the window as LDJ described. I don't think she would have fallen from just having her head out the window. LDJ did admit that she grabbed MJD by the legs "in an effort to keep her from falling". :waitasec:

As for the bungee cord - that could have already been on the road side. I know here it isn't unusual to see such things - it could have fallen from someone's vehicle.

Gotta go shopping - will check in later! This is such an interesting case.

[Lucy's mom]

I just wanted to let you all know that I haven't heard back from Dane County Sheriff's office regarding the Doris Ann Mcleod angle. I sent another email about 1/2 hour ago. I'll keep you all posted.

[Marstan]

I am pretty curious about KTL and the charges he was arrested on in 1999. All for prostituting underage girls, etc. In interviewing him, he was being held in jail for something. He told the officer he did not know the MJD the officer was asking about. However, looking into his criminal background he was arrested in 8/99 for putting out underage girls on the street (three of them) and acting in essence of a pimp for them. I believe he received like 20-30 years as he kept breaking his probation.

I would really like to see a photograph of this guy. I believe he is in Florence, AZ at the prison there and might actually look like the guy MJD was fighting with in front of the auto sales place on Van Buren St.

[Marstan]

These girls were arrested along with KTL in 2006. Most of the girls were possibly with him long enough to remember MJD. One girl was 22 years old.

Case Number: S-0700-CR-2006174385Case Category: UnknownCase Title: St of AZ Vs. April Kirby, Et.ACourt: Maricopa County SuperiorJudge: UNKNOWNFiling Date: 12/06/2006Disposition Date: 04/27/2007
Party Name: UNKNOWNParty Type: ? 5 - UnknownDate of Birth: 04/03/1957
Party Name: UNKNOWNParty Type: ? 6 - UnknownDate of Birth: 03/01/1967
Party Name: UNKNOWNParty Type: ? 7 - UnknownDate of Birth:

Party Name: KELLY TERRELL LIPSEYParty Type: D 2 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth: 08/09/1972Count 1: PANDERINGDisposition Date: 12/19/2006Disposition: * (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/casedetail.asp?cs_id=kgmkokic&crt_name=Maricopa County Superior#footnote)Count 2: RECEIVE EARNINGS OF PROSTITUTEDisposition Date: 12/19/2006Disposition: * (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/casedetail.asp?cs_id=kgmkokic&crt_name=Maricopa County Superior#footnote)

Party Name: TANZSHINEKA NYELLE WILLIAMSParty Type: D 3 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth: 07/06/1984Count 4: ENTICE PERSON FOR PROSTITUTIONDisposition Date: 12/19/2006Disposition: * (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/casedetail.asp?cs_id=kgmkokic&crt_name=Maricopa County Superior#footnote)

Party Name: APRIL LAUREN KIRBYParty Type: D 4 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth: 11/24/1987Count 3: RECEIVE EARNINGS OF PROSTITUTEDisposition Date: 12/19/2006Disposition: * (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/casedetail.asp?cs_id=kgmkokic&crt_name=Maricopa County Superior#footnote)

Party Name: LINDA ANN KIRBYParty Type: D 5 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth: 04/03/1957Count 22: MONEY LAUNDERINGDisposition Date: 04/27/2007Disposition: COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTYCount 23: ILLEGAL CONTROL OF ENTERPRISEDisposition Date: 04/27/2007Disposition: COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY

Party Name: TONIA L FINDLEYParty Type: D 6 - DEFNDT/RESPNDTDate of Birth: 03/09/1967Count 24: MONEY LAUNDERINGDisposition Date: 04/04/2007Disposition: COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTYCount 25: ILLEGAL CONTROL OF ENTERPRISEDisposition Date: 04/04/2007Disposition: COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY
Party Name: UNKNOWNParty Type: P 1 - PLNTIF/PETITNERDate of Birth:

http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/casedetail.asp?cs_id=kgmkokic&crt_name=Maricopa%20County%20Superior (http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/casedetail.asp?cs_id=kgmkokic&crt_name=Maricopa%20County%20Superior)

[Zanko]

What's the status of the photos? With the inventory of the car being so vague, it would be helpful to see what was in the car. The trunk contained several tote bags with miscellaneous contents. That doesn't say much. How could LE determine what belonged to Lindsey and what belonged to MJD? I suppose there could be an obvious size difference, but without a detailed description of what was in the totes????:confused: And miscellaneous papers also is vague. IMO the car was released rather quickly. I wonder what the results of the sexual assault kit and blood tests were? That could give more insight into what was happening previous to the "jump" from the vehicle. Anyone send for the Med Examiner's report?

[JDB]

CAn some one send me the police report

[believe09]

In an effort to give people a chance to discuss the crime itself and the police report, perhaps we can start a thread with a discussion of that topic. Perhaps we could have then another thread to discuss angles for ID'ing MJD...thoughts?

[Auburnmommyof2]

In an effort to give people a chance to discuss the crime itself and the police report, perhaps we can start a thread with a discussion of that topic. Perhaps we could have then another thread to discuss angles for ID'ing MJD...thoughts?
I think it sounds like a good idea, there is a lot of repetition going on and questions/ideas that have been addressed. Maybe separating the angles some would help us narrow our thoughts and make more progress?

[Zanko]

I personally am only interested in identifying this child. I feel the discussion around the "incident" or "crime" is only helpful if it leads to some piece of information (possibly overlooked) that helps to identify her.

[Auburnmommyof2]

I personally am only interested in identifying this child. I feel the discussion around the "incident" or "crime" is only helpful if it leads to some piece of information (possibly overlooked) that helps to identify her.
I'm with you 100%!!!:clap:

[absinthe]

What's the status of the photos? With the inventory of the car being so vague, it would be helpful to see what was in the car. The trunk contained several tote bags with miscellaneous contents. That doesn't say much. How could LE determine what belonged to Lindsey and what belonged to MJD? I suppose there could be an obvious size difference, but without a detailed description of what was in the totes????:confused: And miscellaneous papers also is vague. IMO the car was released rather quickly. I wonder what the results of the sexual assault kit and blood tests were? That could give more insight into what was happening previous to the "jump" from the vehicle. Anyone send for the Med Examiner's report?


Yes, I sent for it about a week and a half ago. No reply yet.

[VASHLEY88]

Yes, I sent for it about a week and a half ago. No reply yet.

Hmm. Well, I hope you get a reply soon! It seems that there is a lot of heat in the thread, especially about what incidents occurred that day while MJD was still alive. I agree that most of the attention should be focused on identifying MJD rather than the events that happened, although I think that the ME report would help verify a lot of things that happened that might be crucial in ID'ing MJD.

After reading the report, I am stumped. It kind of threw me off a little that none of the things she (allegedly?) had in her possession where mentioned on the ME site. I am also curious to see if the rape kit showed any signs of assault.

Also, I saw a lot about "miscellaneous papers". Were they hers? I wonder what they were..:waitasec:

ETA I would also like to see a thread made to see everyone's thoughts/opinions based on the events, although I strongly believe identifying her is most important. But I think it sounds like a good thing to do as some important things may be over looked.. JMO.

[ArizonaGiGi]

I personally am only interested in identifying this child. I feel the discussion around the "incident" or "crime" is only helpful if it leads to some piece of information (possibly overlooked) that helps to identify her.

Not me. If she was pushed or wronged somehow, I want the person to pay!

[Auburnmommyof2]

Not me. If she was pushed or wronged somehow, I want the person to pay!
I agree that if she was wronged, someone should be held accountable for it. But my immediate goal is to id our MJD.

[Teresa Larson]

Check this web site out http://www.inmatesplus.com/ Kelly has been in trouble a lot in Arizona I am surprised he hasn't been in jail for a few years I wonder if he moved some place else since it seems as though the heat was on him a lot. It also seems as though he had an older woman working for him. Unfortunately there isn't a picture of him on the web site but it does have his weight height etc. I don't think MJD could have been in the area for a long time since nobody in the Vice Unit of the Police Dept knew her. I think we need to do some checking in the eastern states to see if she is missing from there.

[phenolred]

Im dying to see the actual RING, To see if it appears to be a womans or a mans, In addition, I have been looking into these types of rings and they call them Signet rings or Monogram rings, the ones that have the Initials on the outside like the one she had are normally the first initial the LAST NAME INITIAL in the MIDDLE IN LARGER SCRIPT and then the middle initial

I beleive hers was stated to also have a diamond in it. I also read alot of times these are worn as pinky rings so maybe she had outgrown this ring as a pinky ring and put it on the chain instead.

Here is an example pic of the type of ring Im referring to

http://www.wards.com/wards/largepic.asp?ID=77899

[Auburnmommyof2]

Im dying to see the actual RING, To see if it appears to be a womans or a mans, In addition, I have been looking into these types of rings and they call them Signet rings or Monogram rings, the ones that have the Initials on the outside like the one she had are normally the first initial the LAST NAME INITIAL in the MIDDLE IN LARGER SCRIPT and then the middle initial

I beleive hers was stated to also have a diamond in it. I also read alot of times these are worn as pinky rings so maybe she had outgrown this ring as a pinky ring and put it on the chain instead.

Here is an example pic of the type of ring Im referring to

http://www.wards.com/wards/largepic.asp?ID=77899
Signet ring! That's what its called, thank you. That's exactly what I have visioned as well.

[J. Brannagh]

Can someone send me a copy of the report??

[christine2448]

Can someone send me a copy of the report??

Please pm your email address.

[believe09]

Please pm your email address.

J Brannagh'e email addy kicked the report back to me, Christine, so maybe you can walk her through how to prevent that from happening??

Hugs ya both!!

[phenolred]

Here are some different examples of script on signet rings

http://www.jewelbasket.com/jbuu65072.html

[J. Brannagh]

Thank you Believe! I am pretty new at this... have lurked for a long time but would like to participate more...

Thank you Christine for trying to help me figure it out!

[rccook555]

Check this web site out http://www.inmatesplus.com/ Kelly has been in trouble a lot in Arizona I am surprised he hasn't been in jail for a few years I wonder if he moved some place else since it seems as though the heat was on him a lot. It also seems as though he had an older woman working for him. Unfortunately there isn't a picture of him on the web site but it does have his weight height etc. I don't think MJD could have been in the area for a long time since nobody in the Vice Unit of the Police Dept knew her. I think we need to do some checking in the eastern states to see if she is missing from there.

He also has quite an extensive record from Wisconsin dating from 2/2/1991 to 9/14/1998 where it appears he left Wisconsin at that time and went to AZ and picked up his criminal acts in AZ.
http://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl

[Marstan]

He also has quite an extensive record from Wisconsin dating from 2/2/1991 to 9/14/1998 where it appears he left Wisconsin at that time and went to AZ and picked up his criminal acts in AZ.
http://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl (http://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl)

I knew I had read that before (on the internet), I think I will go and look up any young girls missing from WI, for some reason I keep thinking that is where MJD is from. I actually dreamed about it last night and I don't usually do things like that. LOL:crazy:

[Cubby]

Do we know if MJD's prints were run outside of AZ? If she was from WI, it's possible she may have been in some trouble there.

[Angie4b1g]

Alonzo has already plead out, so no charges are coming to him no matter what we discover. The most that would happen would be charges to LDJ, which are probably unlikely no matter what we uncover.

So, might as well focus on the matter at hand - giving our girl a name and getting her home.

[J. Brannagh]

I wonder if MJD came out from Wisconsin with him in Sep of 1998... that would have her in AZ for about 3 months.

It would make sense he would bring some girls out with him or just one "girlfriend"... for income... (poor girl)

[Cubby]

KTL Has a moving violation in Milwaukee on 11/09/98 and then again on 02/03/99.

http://query.municourt.milwaukee.gov/AllCases.asp

I wonder when LE in AZ interviewed him.

ETA: KTL's interview with LE was 03/04/99

If he has a moving violation in Milwaukee on 02/03/99, how would he have been in PHX in Jan 99? Unless he was in WI in Nov, then in AZ sometime inbetween, back in WI in Feb and back in AZ in March.

[Lucy's mom]

Here is the response from the sheriff's office. I'll keep you posted of the follow-up with Det. Hughes.

Lisa,

I tried to contact Detective Hughes but he is out of the office. I am not positive but I believe Detective Hughes has had contact with Doris' sister since 1999. Since I am not positive I have copied this message to him so he can correct me if I am wrong. Also knowing Detective Hughes if he has any ideas that may help you with identifying the girl he will pass those ideas along to you.

Kathy A. Dorn
Detective
Dane County Sheriff's Office

[Auburnmommyof2]

KTL Has a moving violation in Milwaukee on 11/09/98 and then again on 02/03/99.

http://query.municourt.milwaukee.gov/AllCases.asp

I wonder when LE in AZ interviewed him.
If I'm reading the information right...the violation was on 11/09/98 and the 2/3/99 date is when the fines were due. I may be wrong though.

[Cubby]

They are different citation numbers and different locations where the violation occured. I think they are different incidents.

I think we need to find other area's where KTL has violations to get an idea of where MJD might be from. If he was traffiking young girls from WI and "back east" it's easy to see how he could have been in AZ in Jan, WI in Feb and back in AZ in Marc.

[Teresa Larson]

:rolleyes:Alonzo has already plead out, so no charges are coming to him no matter what we discover. The most that would happen would be charges to LDJ, which are probably unlikely no matter what we uncover.

So, might as well focus on the matter at hand - giving our girl a name and getting her home.


There is no statue on murder so they could come back and charge Alonzo and Lindsey If they came up with some new evidence.

[Angie4b1g]

He was already charged. Plead guilty to a lesser charge. If he walked into the police department right now and told them he killed her, he still can't be charged. Statute of limitations not withstanding, double jeopardy still applies.

As far as LDJ, yes she could still be charged. The likelihood of anyone uncovering evidence of a push vs. a fall are highly unlikely, though. No matter what we or anyone else finds out about what happened that day, we probably won't ever know whether she jumped or was pushed unless LDJ decides to come clean.

Anyway, once again we're off the objective here. We need to give this girl back her name.

[fmw63]

Just talked to my LE contact in AZ, and mentioned to him about the other two girls of Lipsey's that "hadn't been found yet" (This was back in '99 when he was arrested). So, I think Mr. Lipsey's about to get some more questioning. Alonzo still hasn't been found yet, but they're working on it. Also, they've talked to Lindsey recently, and she's being a little more cooperative. Supposedly there was this house they stopped at on their way out of town, that MJD went into.:eek:

Stay tuned for the next thrilling episode! Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel!
:woohoo:

[Auburnmommyof2]

Just talked to my LE contact in AZ, and mentioned to him about the other two girls of Lipsey's that "hadn't been found yet" (This was back in '99 when he was arrested). So, I think Mr. Lipsey's about to get some more questioning. Alonzo still hasn't been found yet, but they're working on it. Also, they've talked to Lindsey recently, and she's being a little more cooperative. Supposedly there was this house they stopped at on their way out of town, that MJD went into.:eek:

Stay tuned for the next thrilling episode! Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel!
:woohoo:
:clap::clap::clap:

[Angie4b1g]

That is AWESOME news!!! So glad she's getting some sort of conscious!

[christine2448]

Interesting. Thanks fmw.

[absinthe]

Thanks FMW!!!!

[Cubby]

Just talked to my LE contact in AZ, and mentioned to him about the other two girls of Lipsey's that "hadn't been found yet" (This was back in '99 when he was arrested). So, I think Mr. Lipsey's about to get some more questioning. Alonzo still hasn't been found yet, but they're working on it. Also, they've talked to Lindsey recently, and she's being a little more cooperative. Supposedly there was this house they stopped at on their way out of town, that MJD went into.:eek:

Stay tuned for the next thrilling episode! Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel!
:woohoo:

Awesome! Thank you FMW. And thank you LDJ if you see this.

[Lucy's mom]

Hi all,

I received the police report and have just a couple of questions as I'm only into the first 15 pages.

1. How do we know that any of the "evidence" that was found in the car was MJD? For example, the DMA necklace, Guess high healed shoes, rolex watch, etc. According the the LE, the only thing she had on her was the red stone studs in her bottom ear holes and clear stones in the top holes.

Okay, I lied. Only one question right now:-)

Oh and BTW, our little Lindsey knows so much more than she's sharing...as you all know. To the first officer that transports her to the hospital to take her blood, she is telling him "I don't know why she jumped." and "why does she always mess with the wrong people." She also says she's only been there two months. And then to the other officers, she claims she doesn't know her name and that her "boyfriend...aka pimp", picked her up in the area of 24th street. What a coinky dink that Alonzo and Lindsey are going to Miami and our MJD expresses interest in going, so poof, they're all one big happy family heading to Miami. And then MJD changes her mind and jumps out.

[Auburnmommyof2]

FMW, Is there any way you can find out if police questioned the 13 yo mentioned in the police report? She is the girl KTL was put in jail for kidnapping, according to the interview with the neighbor. I feel like she is our best chance at finding out who our MJD is.

[Lucy's mom]

Is this Lindsey or does she still live in Arizona? :confused:

Name/AKAs Age
1. DEJONG, LINDSEY DAWN - Age: 27
Associated names:
DEJUNG, LINDSEY

Address/State
COLBERT, WA
SPOKANE VALLEY, WA

Possible relatives
DEJONG, ON R (age 61)
DEJONG, KATHLEEN L (age 89)
DEJONG, JON ROELOF (age 88)

[phenolred]

Is this Lindsey or does she still live in Arizona? :confused:

Name/AKAs Age
1. DEJONG, LINDSEY DAWN - Age: 27
Associated names:
DEJUNG, LINDSEY

Address/State
COLBERT, WA
SPOKANE VALLEY, WA

Possible relatives
DEJONG, ON R (age 61)
DEJONG, KATHLEEN L (age 89)
DEJONG, JON ROELOF (age 88)


No I think she lives back in Spokane WA now.

I think I have found the CORRECT Address AND Phone # for her....

Im sitting on it to her from Christine or Believe about how to proceed.

Like I said im not into the Phone LOL, SOOO Christine, I sent all this to Believe via email earlier today. Im thinking its her


ans WOOOO Hooo she went into a house cool!!! Keeping my fingers crossed on that lead

[believe09]

Just talked to my LE contact in AZ, and mentioned to him about the other two girls of Lipsey's that "hadn't been found yet" (This was back in '99 when he was arrested). So, I think Mr. Lipsey's about to get some more questioning. Alonzo still hasn't been found yet, but they're working on it. Also, they've talked to Lindsey recently, and she's being a little more cooperative. Supposedly there was this house they stopped at on their way out of town, that MJD went into.:eek:

Stay tuned for the next thrilling episode! Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel!
:woohoo:

Do you know how much we love you, FMW!!!! You are fabulous.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[believe09]

No I think she lives back in Spokane WA now.

I think I have found the CORRECT Address AND Phone # for her....

Im sitting on it to her from Christine or Believe about how to proceed.

Like I said im not into the Phone LOL, SOOO Christine, I sent all this to Believe via email earlier today. Im thinking its her


ans WOOOO Hooo she went into a house cool!!! Keeping my fingers crossed on that lead
Yup-Christine and I are on it, friend....

[VASHLEY88]

Just talked to my LE contact in AZ, and mentioned to him about the other two girls of Lipsey's that "hadn't been found yet" (This was back in '99 when he was arrested). So, I think Mr. Lipsey's about to get some more questioning. Alonzo still hasn't been found yet, but they're working on it. Also, they've talked to Lindsey recently, and she's being a little more cooperative. Supposedly there was this house they stopped at on their way out of town, that MJD went into.:eek:

Stay tuned for the next thrilling episode! Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel!
:woohoo:


:blowkiss: you're awesome..!

[Lucy's mom]

Not that this probably means anything but I did a search on Ms. Robin Angers, the woman who told the detectives that MJD is 15 and goes by the name Corey or Carla. Anyway, there were three Robin Angers and if her middle initial is L, then she's from Milwaukee, WI. Again, probably means nothing but I thought I would throw that out at you all.

[Aphra]

hm. Now isn't THAT interesting! Gee, her middle initial is L. I wonder if that happens to stand for Lipsey! If it IS her, I wonder if Ms. Angers had a reason to keep her mouth shut. "Tried to talk her out of prostitution," indeed.

(Highly unlikely scenario, I know.)

[Fairy1]

:blowkiss: For fmw. Once again - you ROCK! I'm really leaning toward Wisconsin more and more here. I don't see any possible matches on the missing boards, so I believe the group homes/foster care system we discussed a while back is our best bet. What do ya'll think? :confused:

[Zanko]

Stating the obvious: Wisconsin is very close to Canada. I think we should keep open to the idea she is from out of the U.S.

[Fairy1]

Stating the obvious: Wisconsin is very close to Canada. I think we should keep open to the idea she is from out of the U.S.

Good point - but have looked there too - though their own missing persons sites are somewhat scattered. And - I do believe we should persue the other girl or girls her pimp "kidnapped."

[VASHLEY88]

Good point - but have looked there too - though their own missing persons sites are somewhat scattered. And - I do believe we should persue the other girl or girls her pimp "kidnapped."

Yes, who was the other girl? I wonder if we could get her name and ask her or have LE ask her if she knew our MJD.. or did I miss something and this has already been done? :waitasec:

[fmw63]

Yes, who was the other girl? I wonder if we could get her name and ask her or have LE ask her if she knew our MJD.. or did I miss something and this has already been done? :waitasec:

When I talked to the detective today, I mentioned the newspaper article that mentioned the other 2 girls (of the 4) that weren't yet located. He seemed interested in talking to Lipsey again, especially since he was right next door at the time.:crazy:

[Teresa Larson]

Not that this probably means anything but I did a search on Ms. Robin Angers, the woman who told the detectives that MJD is 15 and goes by the name Corey or Carla. Anyway, there were three Robin Angers and if her middle initial is L, then she's from Milwaukee, WI. Again, probably means nothing but I thought I would throw that out at you all.

That Robin Angers was born in 1955. I didn't think she was that old? I did a Zaba search for her.

[Teresa Larson]

I checked to see if Robin Angers was ever arrested in Arizona. She has a record of forgery and her real name is Robin White DOB 2-13-71 Her picture is also there. http://www.inmatesplus.com/

[Fairy1]

I checked to see if Robin Angers was ever arrested in Arizona. She has a record of forgery and her real name is Robin White DOB 2-13-71 Her picture is also there. http://www.inmatesplus.com/

Hmmmmm - this is interesting.

[Teresa Larson]

Hmmmmm - this is interesting.

Did you look it up Fairy? I know we are only trying to find out who our MJD is but any little thing might lead to the answer we are all looking for. I wonder how long Robin new MJD and how well she knew Lindsey. :waitasec:

[Aphra]

I also wonder why MJD used a street name and Lindsey didn't.

[Teresa Larson]

I also wonder why MJD used a street name and Lindsey didn't.


I am sure she did have a street name. No prostitute uses her real name for safety reasons. Lindsey had to go by what was on her drivers license when she was arrested.

[Teresa Larson]

I can't seem to find Alonzo's birth date Does anybody know what it is?

[phenolred]

I can't seem to find Alonzo's birth date Does anybody know what it is?
I found this back on page 2 I think


4/28/1970

but then I found this from Zanko


Regarding Alonzo Decarlos Fernandez. His birthday is July 28, 1972. He was charged with Reckless Manslaughter and possession and use of Marijuana. He plead down to Hit and Run Death/Injury. The court case number is S-1100-CR-99025155.


But then again Per Christine, Alonzo is an Alias and his real name is William

per Zanko we got this info

William JXXXX WXXXX, birth date 6/10/67, has 15 aliases including Alonzo Decarlos Fernandez. But how could this be the same person? Alonzo was tried and convicted, under an alias???? Is this the same guy????

I figured it wasn't the same guy, until I read the police report and Lindsey kept referring to Alonzo as William!

Since it's public info, can I post his full name? Moderators?

[phenolred]

Here is a great list of different Missing persons sites for Canada

Unfortuanly they dont have a very good Canada wide site, but these are by Territory
http://www.safecanada.ca/link_e.asp?category=4&topic=201

I also love searching here you can search for people looking for their friends or relatives you can search by first name or keywords its great


http://www.cyberpages.com/

[Cubby]

I don't think RA's arrest record would have any impact on an id for MJD. IF she had any further information she didn't share with police, which she or LE felt was important, she would have minimally shared that additional info to negotiate a reduced charge. I honestly don't believe she knew more at the time.She obviosly wouldn't have taken it with her and done more time or whatever to keep someone else's secret. That makes NO sense. It's not a fantastic area, so I am just taking it as some of that might be part of the territory for the area's residents.

Now, I am saying this out of concern, and respect- and I don't mean to "slam anyone". I know everyone has been working very hard on this case and it's not been easy to not get angry about what happened, especially after reading the LE report. LDJ hasn't been in contact with us, but is now "cooperating" with police. It's my opinion, that unless any previous arrest history for anyone involved. (The witnesses who stopped to assist had some criminal history too.) I want us to be very cautious in what we post and how relevent it is both to an ID and to possibly get the cooperation of anyone we all decided to contact.

Here we are worried as heck about posting any info on Alonzo- who WAS charged, and we are all tiptoeing around posting any of his information...

I'm just concerned some of this additional stuff, if posted, might be shooting ourselves in the foot with possible cooperation. IT happened on the Anna Waters forum, when family members of someone associated read some not so nice assumptions made about their family member and they immediately stopped cooperating. I do not want to see that happen here. Especially with these people not knowing us from Adam, and not knowing the integrity etc. which has developed here.

Thanks! :blowkiss:

[Cubby]

[quote=phenolred;2305215]
Regarding Alonzo Decarlos Fernandez. His birthday is July 28, 1972. He was charged with Reckless Manslaughter and possession and use of Marijuana. He plead down to Hit and Run Death/Injury. The court case number is S-1100-CR-99025155.


But then again Per Christine, Alonzo is an Alias and his real name is William

per Zanko we got this info

William JXXXX WXXXX, birth date 6/10/67, has 15 aliases including Alonzo Decarlos Fernandez. But how could this be the same person? Alonzo was tried and convicted, under an alias???? Is this the same guy????

I figured it wasn't the same guy, until I read the police report and Lindsey kept referring to Alonzo as William!
quote]


I think it's possible. If "william" had some charges elsewhere and facing time he could have used an Alias, and took the rap with the alias name to avoid being nailed on other charges, or decided to dump the ADF alias after this charge. I didn't see any other non MDJ charges for the ADF name. (Unless I have read so much I missed it with brain overload, lol)

I just don't know how LE- and everyone involved from the SA, to detectives would have missed an alias on this type of case. I can presume a few might have overlooked something, but not all of them.

[phenolred]

What IS his REAL name, William J......W....... what are the J & W for?

we know Lindsey FULL first middle and last name. Shouldnt it be alright to post Alonzos REAL name?

Do you have it Zanko?

[fmw63]

:waitasec:

[christine2448]

:waitasec:

LTWH is working on 10 (just got 10th today) local cases...trying to keep up!!!! I can't do it.....I can hardly keep up with myself sometimes, LOL!

[fmw63]

wow! :eek:

[christine2448]

And that is NOT including any UID cases, like this one.

[absinthe]

I'm here! Just don't have anything to contribute.

[Zanko]

I do not know for certain that this is the same person. That is my only hesitancy. With that said, William Joseph Walker has a bunch of alias names including Alonzo D Fernandez.

How easy/difficult would it be to be arrested, convicted and charged using false identification? Anyone know anyone in LE that could answer that? I'm assuming that the fingerprints would come back and show that this person is using an alias name. But do they run Federal checks on all individuals who are arrested? What about when they become an inmate?

[christine2448]

I do not know for certain that this is the same person. That is my only hesitancy. With that said, William Joseph Walker has a bunch of alias names including Alonzo D Fernandez.

How easy/difficult would it be to be arrested, convicted and charged using false identification? Anyone know anyone in LE that could answer that? I'm assuming that the fingerprints would come back and show that this person is using an alias name. But do they run Federal checks on all individuals who are arrested? What about when they become an inmate?

My LE contact is out of office today but I emailed your questions to see if they an answer...not sure then can, but I will try..I also am PMing/emailing Shadow205...former LE...asking her the same.

[believe09]

The LE source indicates that LDJ is perhaps more cooperative, KTL is being housed next door to the source and is available for questioning, and perhaps our friend Alonzo will be showing up some time in the future...I think these three know who MJD is-barring seeing some of the pict's and the ME report, I thought this case might be breaking open....

[absinthe]

I hope that effing report comes today!

If LDJ really has all the info...well, I wish MJD could have gotten her name 10 years ago.

[fmw63]

I do not know for certain that this is the same person. That is my only hesitancy. With that said, William Joseph Walker has a bunch of alias names including Alonzo D Fernandez.


On the AZ Supreme Court public access pages, a search shows a William J. Walker (DOB 6/10/68...) with an FTA warrant (traffic violations) filed 11/15/98, three days before Lindsey's charges were filed, and his address is listed as Spokane, WA...:waitasec:

[Angie4b1g]

On the AZ Supreme Court public access pages, a search shows a William J. Walker (DOB 6/10/68...) with an FTA warrant (traffic violations) filed 11/15/98, three days before Lindsey's charges were filed, and his address is listed as Spokane, WA...:waitasec:

Curiouser and curiouser.

[VASHLEY88]

My LE contact is out of office today but I emailed your questions to see if they an answer...not sure then can, but I will try..I also am PMing/emailing Shadow205...former LE...asking her the same.


I was told by a LE agent that it is nearly impossible to arrest someone under a false name/alias, but it happens. They usually end up finding out after they are booked. Perhaps that's what happened with ADF.

ETA

In his experience, they usually can tell if someone is using a false name by looking the name up in NCIC and if s/he meets the description but they are still doubtful, they can ask a question like "what's your dad's name?" for example. There is usually a discrepancy somewhere!

[Zanko]

I found this Walker guys information a while ago. I figured that he used the name but wasn't the same guy as the Alonzo involved in this incident. My thinking was maybe Walker stole Alonzo's I.D. or something. The only thing that makes me wonder is LDJ's reference to "William" in the police report. It seems really odd. I'd love to talk to the lead investigator on the case to find out why LDJ refers to Alonzo as William and how it made it in the report without any explanation.

[JDB]

Fater reading the PReport. I have a gut feeling enither LDJ or alonzo know who she is.Also the listing of MJD is based on someone that thinks she is only that old. I still say until The Le rule Micheala out with DNA. MJD is her

[Marstan]

During my search through the AZ Supreme Court paperwork, I found that Lipsey will be at trial July 15 at probably 9 am, and with him will be four of the five females arrested with him. This trial is about him bringing children to AZ to be prostituted out. One woman is 57 years old and a girl age 20 has the same last name as her.

I am hoping to get to Phoenix and try and reserve a room so I can attend the trial. I am also hoping to get someone to talk to me about MJD and where she may have come from. We have WI, but as someone said it could be Canada or anywhere in between.

As far as her being in a fosterhome, group home situation, if MJD was over 18 which is possible, the ATL for the child would be removed from NCIC because the child is released from being a ward of the state at that age.

I would truly like to see the picture someone above has mentioned that they believe truly is MJD. I don't remember the poster but if you can please put the picture here or pm me and let me know where to find it, I would greatly appreciate it.

Alonso will not be at this trial because he is not needed, the arrests for this crime was in Aug 99.

[Marstan]

I can't seem to find Alonzo's birth date Does anybody know what it is?

8/9/72 I believe.

[Teresa Larson]

8/9/72 I believe.


That is Kelly Lipsey's date of birth. :)

[Teresa Larson]

Kelly Lipsey will be going to court

The Court finds Defendant has violated the conditions of probation previously imposed.
IT IS ORDERED setting Disposition Hearing on June 26, 2008 at 8:30 a.m.
I haven't seen where he and several women are going to court Where did you find that info at? I searched all of the cases and can't locate it. I see that April Kirby will be going to court also.

[Teresa Larson]

I have a few questions.

1. How do we find out what Alonzo's birthday is?
2. Did the police ever get to interview Shaine Brook?
3. Is Kelly Lipsey still incarcerated? If so where?