Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #3

[SeriouslySearching]

SS, You must call LE and inform them.Right. Like people have not already informed them?

[SeriouslySearching]

It made me angry that they did mention "armchair sleuths" that did already from day one contact them. Why would people do that?

[Snowlover77]

Going to bed now. Have to work tomorrow. I will pray we all wake up to hear or read about an arrest in this case. I will also pray for the families of these two little girls. Night night to all.

[SuziQ]

I wish we knew more about how many gunshots were heard and what time they were heard.

The witnesses in that area are probably familiar enough with guns they could describe what kind of weapon they heard and in what sequence they heard them.

[Snowlover77]

It made me angry that they did mention "armchair sleuths" that did already from day one contact them. Why would people do that?

People are forever doing things we don't understand. Don't let it get to you. We enjoy trying to solve crime and all the stuff that goes into. Night Night, SS..talk to you more tomorrow.

[noZme]

That would be almost a nice way. They didn't die in a nice way. It was fast and it was deliberate for whatever reason they had to kill them. I will be very upset if there was some stupid reason. Altho, there is not ever a good enough reason.

just one more .... he may have stopped or slowed beside them & made rude remarks, attempted to get them in the truck. or whatever. maybe he was driving along beside them as they were walking attempting a conversation then went into a rage for bring rejected, jumped out & began shooting. whatever "reason" we will find this actual confrontation outside the truck happened quickly. he could have been an otherwise "ordinary" guy having a psychotic event like "God told me to kill... "

[Snowlover77]

The witnesses in that area are probably familiar enough with guns they could describe what kind of weapon they heard and in what sequence they heard them.

Yep, you're probbaly right about that. I wish though that we knew what the cops know.

[txsvicki]

If the POI is our suspect, I have no doubt he would have taken down the witnesses too. They are lucky they didn't stop.

Unless, as the poster elsewhere suggested, he could have ran out of ammunition.

[SeriouslySearching]

just one more .... he may have stopped or slowed beside them & made rude remarks, attempted to get them in the truck. or whatever. maybe he was driving along beside them as they were walking attempting a conversation then went into a rage for bring rejected, jumped out & began shooting. whatever "reason" we will find this actual confrontation outside the truck happened quickly. he could have been an otherwise "ordinary" guy having a psychotic event like "God told me to kill... "I just don't even want to imagine this scenario. All of them make me ill, but...I am angry now. I have hit that stage of losing one of our own. I am just angry now and deeply saddened. I think I am coming out of shock in a way. This happened in our backyard.

[willow]

I've been thinking about this and maybe Taylor DID try to use her phone to call home to report something that they saw to her parents and the phone was BUSY. It's been reported that Skyla's mother called her home to say that she was coming to pick her up, and that her mother tried repeatedly to call her on her cell and couldn't reach her.

Maybe Taylor was trying to call home at the very same time.

Just something to think about.

JMO

[Leila]

I think we need to determine her biological parents. They need to come forward in this.

I mentioned yesterday that I've been concerned from the beginning about the family relatonships. Most often when grandparents are raising grandchildren, it's because the child's parents are deceased, irresponsible, are addicts (drugs/alcohol) or are in jail/prison.

There's been no mention of Taylor's parents. If they were deceased, the obituary would have stated that. If the parents are involved in criminal behavior or serving time for a crime, one or both could have made enemies, who vowed revenge. Their enemy could have tracked the family down and been lying in wait for one of the family members. When Taylor and Skyla emerged from the Placker residence and walked down the road, that enemy could have made the assumption that both girls were members of the Placker family. The shooting itself has all the earmarks of a revenge killing...........multiple shots to the face/head and likely at close range.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Ok I have been skimming back through the topix board again.
Post #43 dated June 11th
Link: http://www.topix.net/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p2


This post sounds like it come from one of the actual witness(s) Could this be from the person who took a little while to come forward?

It's a stupid joke about actor Paul Reubens, who was caught in an adult movie theater, in a compromising position.

[poco]

It was Sunday night..... the girls had been together over the weekend. Who would have known they were going to take that one last walk together down that road?

[ArizonaGiGi]

These may have been posted already and were discussed on IS. Three possibilities re escaped convicts in OK. The first one Robert Donahue resembles sketch facially I think, would like to see the longer hair and cap from POI sketch on his face.

POI:
The sketch is of an American-Indian man, about 6-feet tall with black hair in a ponytail and around 35-years-old
http://www.kwtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8488535 (http://www.kwtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8488535)

Escaped Convicts in OK:

ROBERT L DONAHUE
American Indian Male; 5 ft. 10 in. tall; 196 pounds; Black hair; Brown eyes;
DOB: 04-JUL-1959, 49 yrs old
Escapee: Oklahoma City Comm Corr Ctr - E, Oklahoma – Escaped 12-FEB-2007
http://204.62.19.160/fugitives/fugitive_detail.aspx?id=215245 (http://204.62.19.160/fugitives/fugitive_detail.aspx?id=215245)


KIRK A HAZLETT
White Male; 5 ft. 7 in. tall; 150 pounds; Brown hair; Hazel eyes; Race: W
DOB: 10-AUG-1975, 33 Yrs Old
Escapee: William S. Key Corr. Center Esc, Fort Supply, OK – Escaped 01-MAY-2008
Domestic Assault And Battery In Presence Of Minor
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=532893&offender_book_id=316844&imageindex=1 (http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=532893&offender_book_id=316844&imageindex=1)


JONATHAN PAUL M CRAIG
White Male; 5 ft. 9 in. tall; 181 pounds; Brown hair; Brown eyes; DOB: 21-JAN-1969 (39 yrs old)
WANTED FOR ESCAPE FROM DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS – Escaped 01-MAY-2008 - Tulsa County District, Tulsa
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=180582&offender_book_id=75171&imageindex=6 (http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=180582&offender_book_id=75171&imageindex=6)

Interesting angle - good work

[poco]

Couple things - here is a different picture of Robert Donahue - an Okla Corrections escapee - pictured in a different link above - Escaped 12/07.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=215245&offender_book_id=215338&imageindex=2

Picture of another escapee from same institution.....

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=526791&offender_book_id=312157&imageindex=5

From the AP June 15 - http://www.kwtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6505751

WELEETKA, Okla. (AP) - Authorities want to clarify the length of the hair of a man considered as a person of interest in the fatal shootings of 2 young girls a week ago. Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Jessica Brown said yesterday the agency had received many responses after releasing a sketch a day earlier. The possible witness was described as an American Indian male with a long ponytail, but Brown says investigators have received calls that the man's hair is shorter than previously described.

Both of the above men have short hair - have either been on the run long enough to grow their hair to any length? - do they look at all similar to the sketch from the witness?

[miss_vegemite]

I mentioned yesterday that I've been concerned from the beginning about the family relatonships. Most often when grandparents are raising grandchildren, it's because the child's parents are deceased, irresponsible, are addicts (drugs/alcohol) or are in jail/prison.

There's been no mention of Taylor's parents. If they were deceased, the obituary would have stated that. If the parents are involved in criminal behavior or serving time for a crime, one or both could have made enemies, who vowed revenge. Their enemy could have tracked the family down and been lying in wait for one of the family members. When Taylor and Skyla emerged from the Placker residence and walked down the road, that enemy could have made the assumption that both girls were members of the Placker family. The shooting itself has all the earmarks of a revenge killing...........multiple shots to the face/head and likely at close range.
Do you think it could be a possiblity that the parents on on a 'witness protection plan'. Not sure if that is what you call it in your country?

[poco]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/pocogeejo/POI.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/pocogeejo/POI2.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/pocogeejo/POI1.jpg

[SuziQ]

I don't know if this has been posted yet. But I found a photo that shows how close the girls were from the house. They were almost home and out of harms way.

http://newsok.com/photo/gallery/?gallery_id=3703

OSBI investigators closed the road past the crime scene to look for more clues in the deaths of Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker who were shot and killed last Sunday on the dirt road near one of their homes, Thursday, June 12, 2008. The white truck is parked at the driveway of the Placker home and the man in the road is at the crime scene. Photo by David McDaniel

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d4956e1a2fd6813a676c4f838c6111fefe0c1

[poco]

OMG, that is chilling.......

[ArizonaGiGi]

The person in the SO Registry does not resemble the sketch IMO. The description is very specific - the POI is described and shown clearly as a Native American (American Indian) male with the appropriate coloring (skin tone) and black (not brown) hair and brown eyes. Full blooded Native Americans have very black straight hair - it is typically not curly, although it can be coarse in texture. They also tend to have very little or no facial or body hair. We should focus on the description (from more than one person) and sketch - which are VERY CLEAR that this person APPEARS to be a Native American, down to the hair and eye color.

I am SURE every sex offender from the immediate area has been looked at in depth already. I am not convinced this is AT ALL a sexually motivated crime. There is no reason for a sex offender to risk everything being SEEN in broad daylight on a fairly busy road 300 yards from a house shooting down two girls with multiple shots if he hadn't even touched them sexually and they didn't know him (so as to ID him). The ONLY way it was a Sex Offender is if they KNEW HIM and could ID him to an adult AND he drives around with a couple of guns on him everywhere. The girls were NOT assaulted and the Perp would KNOW there was no DNA to link him to these girls - why kill them? There just is no sensible motivation, even for a pervert sicko. Sex offenders usually don't kill victims before they assault them - and he could have grabbed one or both of the girls easily and killed them later - after the rape/torture, whatever his thing was.

Any men in the girl's lives anywhere matching the description should have already been checked out by LE - how many men of that description could have even met either girl anywhere and been known to either of them? The list cannot be too long.

This murder reeks to me of:
a cover-up of something else (an accidental shooting, an unrelated crime)
a tweaked out paranoid meth addict who felt "trapped" somehow
a "payback" for something unrelated to the girls themselves (except to cause one of their family members pain)
a real life version of some video game or online game
a "for hire" killing (for profit or for revenge)

Somebody shot down "hit man style" two "tweenaged" young ladies (at 11 and 13 they were a bit older than little "children") - who had NOT been sexually assaulted - who had gone from home a short distance and only been gone out of "sight" 30-35 minutes - walking side-by-side - carrying a cell phone. And this was not such a remote area that they weren't seen on their "jaunt" either - the POI was seen by at least 6 people - probably at least that many saw the girls too.

There is SOMETHING we are NOT being told about this - and a theory we are not hearing. They may have cleared all the immediate family members but that does NOT mean that someone didn't do it to "punish" one of them for something (real or imagined). Otherwise it was one of those senseless totally random crimes that we will never understand and we may never know who did it, or WHY? I think LE is onto to something - but what it is may surprise us.

My Opinion

IMO I don't believe it is sexually motivated otherwise the shooter would have killed one girl (the witness) and taken the other girl with him.

[poco]

I don't believe it was sexually motivated either. If so, they(?) would have just picked those little girls up and tossed them in their vehicle and taken off - not blown them away!!! Besides I think sexual predators are wimps..... and don't usually carry automatic weapons.

[ArizonaGiGi]

That makes me think even more on the grandfather's words when he found the girls and said,"they," killed the girls. It was almost like he had an idea on who ,"they," were.

Very good point. Maybe there had been threats to the family by "friends" of the unknown missing parents and Grandpa knew about the threats. May have been partly why the family moved to the country to get away from the crime in OK City. Or was that the other family? sorry, getting way mixed up here.

A few years ago, in Dallas, some drug dealers were mad at an associate over money. So they kidnapped the guys sister from her apt. and eventually killed her just to get revenge on the guy. She was totally innocent and had nothing to do with her brother and his b.s. Reminds me of these two innocent girls, in a way.

[poco]

Very good point. Maybe there had been threats to the family by "friends" of the unknown missing parents. May have been partly why the family moved to the country to get away from the crime in OK City. Or was that the other family? sorry, getting way mixed up here.

This is getting very complicated IMO. Where is it quoted as him saying "they". Possibly the "they" could be the men who shot them and he saw driving away from the scene. Maybe he was walking down his drive and a car drove by and he noticed two men (they) in it - I am beginning to think we need a thread that has just the facts with links in it.........

[ArizonaGiGi]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/pocogeejo/POI.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/pocogeejo/POI2.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/pocogeejo/POI1.jpg


Only one of the three sketches works. The other two "have been moved or deleted". What were they?

[EnvoyDriver61]

OSBI investigators closed the road past the crime scene to look for more clues in the deaths of Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker who were shot and killed last Sunday on the dirt road near one of their homes, Thursday, June 12, 2008. The white truck is parked at the driveway of the Placker home and the man in the road is at the crime scene. Photo by David McDaniel

I think that article is wrong. I have almost the same picture, saved at work however, taken from the video on Thursday, but it is taken from over in the middle of the road.

What is missing is that the picture is taken from the direction of the bridge (north looking south). The white truck is not at Taylor's house, despite what the article states. The other truck is where the girls were found, but in the picture I have, you can see far in the distance as County Line Rd bends to the east (again looking from the north).

I'll see if I can find it for comparison.

[poco]

Only one of the three sketches works. The other two "have been moved or deleted". What were they?

This is weird - when I look at posts 517 and 524, sometimes the pictures are there, sometimes they aren't - a minute a go when I looked they were there.

[Mygirlsadie]

This looks extremely close. One of the things that strikes me as odd is that this kind of road doesn't seem to be well traveled. It seems like the kind of road that you would have to 'know' about. My parents live in an area like this and anybody coming down thier road we either know them or know why they are out there... If you didn't live in their community you wouldnt know their area even exists.






I don't know if this has been posted yet. But I found a photo that shows how close the girls were from the house. They were almost home and out of harms way.

http://newsok.com/photo/gallery/?gallery_id=3703

OSBI investigators closed the road past the crime scene to look for more clues in the deaths of Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker who were shot and killed last Sunday on the dirt road near one of their homes, Thursday, June 12, 2008. The white truck is parked at the driveway of the Placker home and the man in the road is at the crime scene. Photo by David McDaniel

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d4956e1a2fd6813a676c4f838c6111fefe0c1

[poco]

Exactly mygirl, and that is why I said before if you were travelling on that road and someone you would probably either know them and take notice or NOT recognize them, but still take notice - and you'd remember it!

[MCDRAW]

Something is going on with Taylor's biologocal parents. Because even if you did not have custody of your child, you would still acknowledge them in their death. It says to me that there is possibly bad blood between Taylor's parents and her grandparents...maybe why it turns out she was killed. It's not normal when your child is brutally murdered that the woman that gave her life does not come out and attend the funeral. Something very creepy is going on here. I still lean on the killings being more premeditated. Someone knew these girls were going to the bridge that day. Someone knew the time they were going too.


I knew a girl once that had a baby in her teens. Her parents raised that baby. He called his mother, sister. He called his Grandparents, Mom and Dad. I don't know if they ever told him the truth. But people in the community knew so I'm guessing he eventually found out. Maybe one of the parents listed as a sibling...is really one of the parents. Just a guess.

[Trino]

Maybe one of the parents listed as a sibling...is really one of the parents. Just a guess.

I'm guessing this, too. I don't think it matters to the family or to locals who the parents are or that the parents were not listed. It could very well be an embarrassment to the family.

What happened to the two shooter theory? I find it odd that one person would use two guns to kill the girls. Rosser stated that both girls were shot from both guns.

It also appears that the term "local" has expanded to include eastern OK, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, plus reservations. It appears the POI must not really be local, or IMO he would have been identified by now - $25,000 is a lot of money for folks living in this area.

[Littledeer]

I looked up Placker in the "Reverse Phone" lookup and found one for a Vicky Placker:

Placker, Vicky
Hwy 75
Weleetka, OK 74880

Is Hwy 75 the same as County Line Road? If so, then the phone number is listed under Vicky's name without mention of Peter. There are other Plackers listed....

I also put in Paschal and came up with over 71 hits in Oklahoma. I would doubt her mother (if she is still alive) would still be living in the area and have kept her last name since she didn't attend the funeral.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Originally Posted by SuziQ http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2297694#post2297694)
I don't know if this has been posted yet. But I found a photo that shows how close the girls were from the house. They were almost home and out of harms way.

http://newsok.com/photo/gallery/?gallery_id=3703

OSBI investigators closed the road past the crime scene to look for more clues in the deaths of Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker who were shot and killed last Sunday on the dirt road near one of their homes, Thursday, June 12, 2008. The white truck is parked at the driveway of the Placker home and the man in the road is at the crime scene. Photo by David McDaniel

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image....38c6111fefe0c1 (http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d4956e1a2fd6813a676c4f838c6111fefe0c1 )

__________________



That is so close. You could throw a stone from the drive way of the house to the crime scene. Shouldn't the Grandfather have heard the gun shots?

[Trino]

Originally Posted by SuziQ http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2297694#post2297694)
I don't know if this has been posted yet. But I found a photo that shows how close the girls were from the house. They were almost home and out of harms way.

http://newsok.com/photo/gallery/?gallery_id=3703

OSBI investigators closed the road past the crime scene to look for more clues in the deaths of Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker who were shot and killed last Sunday on the dirt road near one of their homes, Thursday, June 12, 2008. The white truck is parked at the driveway of the Placker home and the man in the road is at the crime scene. Photo by David McDaniel

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image....38c6111fefe0c1 (http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d4956e1a2fd6813a676c4f838c6111fefe0c1 )

__________________



That is so close. You could throw a stone from the drive way of the house to the crime scene. Shouldn't the Grandfather have heard the gun shots?


A previous poster stated this photo is not correct, although I, personally, do not know. See post by EnvoyDriver on Page 21.

[cloudajo]

I mentioned yesterday that I've been concerned from the beginning about the family relatonships. Most often when grandparents are raising grandchildren, it's because the child's parents are deceased, irresponsible, are addicts (drugs/alcohol) or are in jail/prison.

There's been no mention of Taylor's parents. If they were deceased, the obituary would have stated that. If the parents are involved in criminal behavior or serving time for a crime, one or both could have made enemies, who vowed revenge. Their enemy could have tracked the family down and been lying in wait for one of the family members. When Taylor and Skyla emerged from the Placker residence and walked down the road, that enemy could have made the assumption that both girls were members of the Placker family. The shooting itself has all the earmarks of a revenge killing...........multiple shots to the face/head and likely at close range.

Agree.

[cloudajo]

It was Sunday night..... the girls had been together over the weekend. Who would have known they were going to take that one last walk together down that road?

Just throwing this out there, but maybe that was their habit and was identified as an opportunity?

"They loved each other. Usually, if you saw them out here, they were both together," Mosher said. "One weekend they would be at Taylor's house, the next weekend they would be at Skyla's house."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_11_A1_hOSBIs543824 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_11_A1_hOSBIs543824 )

Sunday afternoon they went for a walk, as they often did, along a county road. But this time they didn't come back.
http://www.fox23.com/content/flashplayer-localnews/story.aspx?content_id=25df5c65-b161-484c-9066-3c892cec088e (http://www.fox23.com/content/flashplayer-localnews/story.aspx?content_id=25df5c65-b161-484c-9066-3c892cec088e)

[cloudajo]

I looked up Placker in the "Reverse Phone" lookup and found one for a Vicky Placker:

Placker, Vicky
Hwy 75
Weleetka, OK 74880

Is Hwy 75 the same as County Line Road? If so, then the phone number is listed under Vicky's name without mention of Peter. There are other Plackers listed....

I also put in Paschal and came up with over 71 hits in Oklahoma. I would doubt her mother (if she is still alive) would still be living in the area and have kept her last name since she didn't attend the funeral.

I don't think it's the same according to map (see attached). Maybe one of the other kids with a phone # listed in Vicky's name?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=county+line+road+weleetka,+ok&daddr=highway+75,+weleetka,+ok&sll=35.355736,-96.127968&sspn=0.133002,0.299377&ie=UTF8&ll=35.322415,-96.082415&spn=0.133057,0.299377&z=12

I believe Taylor had 1 brother and 2 sisters living in Weleetka - not sure exactly where they lived.

[oceanblueeyes]

I think that article is wrong. I have almost the same picture, saved at work however, taken from the video on Thursday, but it is taken from over in the middle of the road.

What is missing is that the picture is taken from the direction of the bridge (north looking south). The white truck is not at Taylor's house, despite what the article states. The other truck is where the girls were found, but in the picture I have, you can see far in the distance as County Line Rd bends to the east (again looking from the north).

I'll see if I can find it for comparison.

But isn't that a rural mailbox right on the other side of the white truck parked there?

I thought LE said they were found about 900 feet away from Taylor's home?

Also didn't they say that the Plackers are the only ones living on that particular stretch of this road?

[athy]

a thought, the witness said he saw a guy standing by the truck. the LE said there are two shooters and MF said possibly there were three people there. what if the guy standing by the truck was watchout while the other two had the girls in the wooded area. maybe seeing this witness driving by scared him so he called the other two back and that's when the girls were killed...after they came out of the woods and before the men got back into the truck.

[noZme]

But isn't that a rural mailbox right on the other side of the white truck parked there?
I thought LE said they were found about 900 feet away from Taylor's home?Also didn't they say that the Plackers are the only ones living on that particular stretch of this road?


i believe the photo is made from just south of the residence.looks like a mailbox beside the truck in the foreground. i didn't see another house or drive between taylor's house & the bridge on satellite images of county line road.

could the vehicles in the background be parked where traffic was stopped a little this side of the crime scene? the roadside memorial is not right at the place the girls were found...... another thing, the 900 foot measurement may have been made from her house, down the driveway & then to the scene..... one more, a railroad is very near, if a train was passing, one wouldn't distinguish gunshots very near.

[rccook555]

I havent got all caught up from last night yet but is it possible that Linda is Taylors mother? She would have been, what, 14 when Taylor was born right? Maybe she was raised as her sister because she was so young at the time. And she was raised as her sister. Thats why she would be listed as a sister in her Obit. Just a thought...

[cloudajo]

a thought, the witness said he saw a guy standing by the truck. the LE said there are two shooters and MF said possibly there were three people there. what if the guy standing by the truck was watchout while the other two had the girls in the wooded area. maybe seeing this witness driving by scared him so he called the other two back and that's when the girls were killed...after they came out of the woods and before the men got back into the truck.

Interesting thought.

[cloudajo]

I havent got all caught up from last night yet but is it possible that Linda is Taylors mother? She would have been, what, 14 when Taylor was born right? Maybe she was raised as her sister because she was so young at the time. And she was raised as her sister. Thats why she would be listed as a sister in her Obit. Just a thought...

I was wondering that too.

[cloudajo]

i believe the photo is made from just south of the residence.looks like a mailbox beside the truck in the foreground. i didn't see another house or drive between taylor's house & the bridge on satellite images of county line road.

could the vehicles in the background be parked where traffic was stopped a little this side of the crime scene? the roadside memorial is not right at the place the girls were found...... another thing, the 900 foot measurement may have been made from her house, down the driveway & then to the scene..... one more, a railroad is very near, if a train was passing, one wouldn't distinguish gunshots very near.

Thanks. So if we are looking at that pic, do we know if the witness that drove by the POI was driving past the Placker's first and heading north (or we don't know)? And the POI/truck would have been down on the right side of the road?

Just trying to visualize it...

[cloudajo]

I don't have a link to a news story, but someone on IS just posted that Fox News said they (I guess LE) are releasing another sketch today.

I hope it includes the white pickup truck.

[Albert18]

Regarding the two guns...

If the scattered shots on the girls are all from the same small caliber gun and the more accurate shots are from the larger caliber gun then I don't know why LE thinks there are two shooters. Because all this tells you is that the smaller gun was used first and then after the girls were immobilized the larger gun was used.

I assume the reason the 2nd gun was used was because of destructive power. This was one nasty dude.

[oceanblueeyes]

Fox News said that OSBI is going to come out with a new composite of the POI.

The spokesperson said all the witnesses are very much similar when describing him so I am now thinking more people saw him on that road somewhere. Maybe not at the same place but in the near area before the shootings or right after.

imoo

[Albert18]

If that photo is accurate then something certainly isn't right about what we have been told. And that is to put it mildly.

[cloudajo]

If that photo is accurate then something certainly isn't right about what we have been told. And that is to put it mildly.

What are your thoughts on that?

[oceanblueeyes]

If that photo is accurate then something certainly isn't right about what we have been told. And that is to put it mildly.

Why? Doesn't their home sit up further off the road and the driveway winds out to the main dirt road? I live in the country and I cant see if someone was parked right at my mailbox up on the road. I wouldn't even be looking out to see if someone was on the main road one way or the other anyway.

They say they were murdered about 900 feet from Taylor's home.

imoo

[Desertsand]

What are your thoughts on that?

Lastnight I was browsing the Oknews sight and there were two picture of this pickup parked at the entrance to the driveway. It showed men a little futher up to road than this picture does. If you look right under the tree limbs you can see what looks like is more leaves but that was where the men were standing indicating the crime scene. I have looked for the other picture this morning but it is not there. I wonder why it was removed.

[noZme]

Thanks. So if we are looking at that pic, do we know if the witness that drove by the POI was driving past the Placker's first and heading north (or we don't know)? And the POI/truck would have been down on the right side of the road?Just trying to visualize it...

driving down a country dirt road, autos usually travel right in the middle except curves or hills where the line of sight would be restricted. when meeting another auto, each moves to the right as they pass then immediately back to the middle.

about a sibling being the birth mother, that's becoming more plausible to me.... but why wouldn't that have been kept more private?

[SuziQ]

I think that article is wrong. I have almost the same picture, saved at work however, taken from the video on Thursday, but it is taken from over in the middle of the road.

What is missing is that the picture is taken from the direction of the bridge (north looking south). The white truck is not at Taylor's house, despite what the article states. The other truck is where the girls were found, but in the picture I have, you can see far in the distance as County Line Rd bends to the east (again looking from the north).

I'll see if I can find it for comparison.

Please do! I also need to go rewatch the video of OSBI. When initially watching the video I got the impression that they were at the actual crime scene. I just didn't know who the mailbox belonged to. I didn't think it was the grandparents because it was so close. Sad if it was that close.

[noZme]

look at the mapquest link below. the red star "A" is the intersection of roads N3890 (county line road) & E 1130. the clearing just above & to the left of the star is taylor's house. there is a scale at the bottom right. you can click & drag up county line road to see where it crosses bad creek. i hope this helps.

i think you must change it to aerial image from streetmap
in the 1st frame the creek is a under the county names. click up 1 level & you'll have a better view of the bridge area

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.37688:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok)

[SuziQ]

Regarding the two guns...

If the scattered shots on the girls are all from the same small caliber gun and the more accurate shots are from the larger caliber gun then I don't know why LE thinks there are two shooters. Because all this tells you is that the smaller gun was used first and then after the girls were immobilized the larger gun was used.

I assume the reason the 2nd gun was used was because of destructive power. This was one nasty dude.

Or visa versa. I agree though, one person could have done this. Where I live is rural and many people pack a handgun on themselves and carry a rifle in their vehicles. You never know when you might come across year round game to hunt.

[SuziQ]

Here is the raw video of OSBI at the crime scene:
http://www.koco.com/video/16587861/

Here is the timeline map. I doubt it's to scale, but the girls could have been that close to home.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/lightingthewayhome/j11welcrimemap.jpg

[KR2tonenow]

I don't know if this has been posted yet. But I found a photo that shows how close the girls were from the house. They were almost home and out of harms way.

http://newsok.com/photo/gallery/?gallery_id=3703

OSBI investigators closed the road past the crime scene to look for more clues in the deaths of Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker who were shot and killed last Sunday on the dirt road near one of their homes, Thursday, June 12, 2008. The white truck is parked at the driveway of the Placker home and the man in the road is at the crime scene. Photo by David McDaniel

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d4956e1a2fd6813a676c4f838c6111fefe0c1

This is almost a few houses down, if it was my neighborhood. Was a silencer used for most the shots, automatic wepons are quiet for the most part, kind of like a pinging sound. What does anyone make of this?

[harleysnana]

I looked up Placker in the "Reverse Phone" lookup and found one for a Vicky Placker:

Placker, Vicky
Hwy 75
Weleetka, OK 74880

Is Hwy 75 the same as County Line Road? If so, then the phone number is listed under Vicky's name without mention of Peter. There are other Plackers listed....

I also put in Paschal and came up with over 71 hits in Oklahoma. I would doubt her mother (if she is still alive) would still be living in the area and have kept her last name since she didn't attend the funeral.
How do we know she didn't attend the funeral?
Is it possible she did and it just wasn't pointed out?

[SeriouslySearching]

I'm guessing this, too. I don't think it matters to the family or to locals who the parents are or that the parents were not listed. It could very well be an embarrassment to the family.

What happened to the two shooter theory? I find it odd that one person would use two guns to kill the girls. Rosser stated that both girls were shot from both guns.

It also appears that the term "local" has expanded to include eastern OK, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, plus reservations. It appears the POI must not really be local, or IMO he would have been identified by now - $25,000 is a lot of money for folks living in this area.To clarify, we do not have "reservations" in Oklahoma. The nearest Res where people would go is in the northern states. I can't remember if it is S. or N. Dakota.

We have tribal lands which unless you knew they where they were exactly...you could not tell the difference. In Tulsa, tribal lands house Casinos. It only means the land is owned by the tribe...so anywhere they buy land can be considered "tribal". Hope this clears up this misconception.

[SeriouslySearching]

This is almost a few houses down, if it was my neighborhood. Was a silencer used for most the shots, automatic wepons are quiet for the most part, kind of like a pinging sound. What does anyone make of this?No silencer was used because at least 4 people came forward to say they heard "unusual" gunshots.

[SuziQ]

In the OSBI video they are further down the road. Which makes more sense given the description so far. So it appears that they were mapping several points along the road. Either location I could see would have been within eyeshot.

[KR2tonenow]

Fox News said that OSBI is going to come out with a new composite of the POI.

The spokesperson said all the witnesses are very much similar when describing him so I am now thinking more people saw him on that road somewhere. Maybe not at the same place but in the near area before the shootings or right after.

imoo

Good, thanks!

[poco]

Good, thanks!

For such a heavily travelled road and so many witnesses, you would think it would have been next to impossible to have shot anyone without it being seen...... too weird.

[SeriouslySearching]

From the AP June 15 - http://www.kwtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6505751

WELEETKA, Okla. (AP) - Authorities want to clarify the length of the hair of a man considered as a person of interest in the fatal shootings of 2 young girls a week ago. Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Jessica Brown said yesterday the agency had received many responses after releasing a sketch a day earlier. The possible witness was described as an American Indian male with a long ponytail, but Brown says investigators have received calls that the man's hair is shorter than previously described.

Both of the above men have short hair - have either been on the run long enough to grow their hair to any length? - do they look at all similar to the sketch from the witness?Jessica Brown said his hair was down to his lower back. The people calling in were giving tips on men who had shorter pony tails. This means he has been growing his hair and wearing it long for several years. People would know him because of his long hair, but there are many other NA who wear their hair the same length. It is traditional not to cut your hair unless there is a death and has sparked many lawsuits. (One I know of involved a policeman here in Tulsa. Nice guy and he won his rights to grow out his hair, too.) By the way, it looks as tho the sketch shows some graying which is possible. Could be he is older than they think.

[KR2tonenow]

From the sketch it appears he is 40-50. There are lines around the eyes.

[SeriouslySearching]

It is rather hard to tell with Indians. They age beautifully. :)

This guy looks like he could be a crack head tho...so you never know. I guess a lot depends on how they live their lives. If there is some gray to his hair, I wish they would tell us that fact.

[KR2tonenow]

For such a heavily travelled road and so many witnesses, you would think it would have been next to impossible to have shot anyone without it being seen...... too weird.

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I know it was a Sunday, quiet, rural. However, the fact the Grandparents "called numerous times", and the girls didn't call 911. It was prety close to the Placker home, there were multiple witnesses of a suspicious truck and person in the area, and they have yet to locate this POS.

Last night, we touched upon some intersting theories as to WHY the girls may possibly have been gunned down. I am still thinking along those lines.

I agree with the poster here, that Vicky or Linda could be the Bio parent. That would explain why, a/she was looking into the NA $ b/why it isn't a big deal why she isn't listed as a parent. As respect to the parents (Grandparents) who raised her, they are the parents.

[BhamMama]

However, it isn't the people are not deserving of their rights from the roles from their heritage. It is the citizens that are angry that such rights or roles would ever be given. They are angry at the people who are not Tribe, but marry and have babies then ask for full benefits.

Whoa, whoa, y'all are making HUGE assumptions about people you don't know.

When someone is researching rolls, it usually means any of the Rolls (like roll call, which is what it was) that were taken from the beginning of contact to the Dawes/Henderson/Armstrong Rolls that establishes a maternal native line.

Most tribes are through maternal lines. You have to prove that your line is unbroken. You then have to take a blood test called a Blood Quantum test. That test defines how White you are, not how Indian. If you don't make the cut off, then you don't get to join the tribe. The government requires the test, the tribe sets the blood amount cut off.

I'm not sure how many people you've talked to but NOBODY, except the radicals (no not AIM) that protest still about getting off our land, is that upset at the people joining. It's the GOVERNMENT that has imposed blood quantum that they are upset with. We think it's a form of genocide to keep people out of the tribe. In no other race do you have to prove how much by blood you are. You would be amazed at the number of Black Indians, Hispanic Indians and Anglo Indians that are defined by blood as plain old Indian. We have a saying, you can't be half or part of anything and if you say you are part Indian they will ask you what part...your toe?

There aren't that many tribes that have huge money. And of the ones that do, Casinos give the majority of the money, which means they earn it themselves and it wasn't given by the gov. If a certain tribe doesn't have a Casino you are looking at less money than someone would get for SS. IF they have reason to have monies given them. Seriously! No one is going to kill two little girls over tribe money. They def won't kill to keep them out of the tribe. Good Gravy! I mean really, you can earn more money at Wal-Mart than many tribes get per month.

I AM native, a card carrying, number having, lived on a Rez native. My children on the other hand, are not because I married a white man and they didn't make the cut off. And I have a full blood as a grandparent and two grandparents who are half of one tribe and half of another.

Before you make sweeping notions remember that there are over 500 different tribes in the U.S and this would be the FIRST ever killing by a native to keep someone out of a tribe...ever. Never mind the hundreds of thousands of others that have joined since enrollment has been open. It just doesn't make sense.

[philamena]

SNIP...parked sideways if it was blocking the way there. No wonder the witness didn't stop and just kept driving. I would have too. Why is his truck blocking the oncoming traffic?

Has it been confirmed that the truck was actually parked sideways? TIA

[Mouse]

To clarify, we do not have "reservations" in Oklahoma. The nearest Res where people would go is in the northern states. I can't remember if it is S. or N. Dakota.

We have tribal lands which unless you knew they where they were exactly...you could not tell the difference. In Tulsa, tribal lands house Casinos. It only means the land is owned by the tribe...so anywhere they buy land can be considered "tribal". Hope this clears up this misconception.

No, the nearest reservations are in New Mexico, which borders OK (albeit, just in a tiny bit in extreme northeast part of the state). I went to school not far from the Mescalero Apache Reservation, and the husband of my closest friend grew up on the Navajo Reservation. Most of the tribal lands in NM now identify as pueblos, but the BIA lists at least 3 self-identified "reservations."

[philamena]

Did the witness who drove by the truck, hear the gunshots?

[SeriouslySearching]

I know of plenty of full bloods who are dissatisfied with 1/32 on down getting allotments and being on the roll. The members of the Cherokee and in particular the Osage tribes DO get substantial checks. Not sure what Tribe you are associated with, but I know many who do not need to work because of the money provided to them. They are also given housing, medical care, and a free ride to college. The dissent within the Tribes is with the elders and yes...I guess you could call them radicals who are younger and feel their heritage is being stripped down because of marriages. They are concerned about future generations.

What you are referring to has nothing to do with what I am talking about here.

My SIL's father was a full blood. My BIL is a full blood. I was raised in a traditional Tribal community. I have heard this argument all of my life.

I would say this guy would be radical to kill these innocent, sweet girls! It isn't normal for NA to kill people...you are correct! I am simply saying the guy could be thinking this way tho. We don't know a motive here and I put this out as a possible motive. NOT that it is the way OTHER people would do anything.

[KR2tonenow]

[quote=BhamMama;2298177]Whoa, whoa, y'all are making HUGE assumptions about people you don't know.

Thank you for the clarification! We need someone representing NA, who can give us great insight into the mystery of the killing of these 2 young girls.

I have a little Cherokee myself, and huge respect for NA's.

The sketch is what we are working with and possible theories as to why this happened.

[cloudajo]

In the OSBI video they are further down the road. Which makes more sense given the description so far. So it appears that they were mapping several points along the road. Either location I could see would have been within eyeshot.

Yes. I agree. Interesting to watch them with equipment and measuring things.

[philamena]

Snowlover 77 post 475.
This post answered my above question. :)

The article says,"he was stopped on the road actually kind of blocking the way there, standing outside his pickup truck, doing something," and they couldn't tell what he was doing so they just kept driving. This is all a quote from the article on Fox. Jessica Brown is the one doing the quoting I think she is a spokesperson for the OSBI.

[cloudajo]

look at the mapquest link below. the red star "A" is the intersection of roads N3890 (county line road) & E 1130. the clearing just above & to the left of the star is taylor's house. there is a scale at the bottom right. you can click & drag up county line road to see where it crosses bad creek. i hope this helps.

i think you must change it to aerial image from streetmap
in the 1st frame the creek is a under the county names. click up 1 level & you'll have a better view of the bridge area

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.37688:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok)

Yes, thanks very much. I realize that I was looking at a different area previously, because when I put in County Line Rd in google maps, it came up with a different road further south.

[pedinurse]

To clarify, we do not have "reservations" in Oklahoma. The nearest Res where people would go is in the northern states. I can't remember if it is S. or N. Dakota.

We have tribal lands which unless you knew they where they were exactly...you could not tell the difference. In Tulsa, tribal lands house Casinos. It only means the land is owned by the tribe...so anywhere they buy land can be considered "tribal". Hope this clears up this misconception.


well, not only casinos. some tribal lands are not built upon, or some tribal lands are used to build indian homes upon. but you're correct, most tribal lands have no designation (we don't have signs up that say "indian land!"). however, where i live and where i am from we have a number of native american graveyards and old tribal grounds that are designated by signs due to their historical status.
pedinurse...

[SeriouslySearching]

No, the nearest reservations are in New Mexico, which borders OK (albeit, just in a tiny bit in extreme northeast part of the state). I went to school not far from the Mescalero Apache Reservation, and the husband of my closest friend grew up on the Navajo Reservation. Most of the tribal lands in NM now identify as pueblos, but the BIA lists at least 3 self-identified "reservations."I guess I am referring to the Tribe's Res that I am used to hearing about people going to live. Sorry. We have a large population of Osage and Cherokee here.

[SeriouslySearching]

I wonder where they are on the investigation today and if they are any closer to finding this POS?! We can debate all day long about other issues, but the real issue here is to find out who killed these children.

My youngest DD was coming back from TX recently and her radiator blew. She was sitting on the turnpike near the exit you would take to get to Weleetka for over 3 hours waiting for AAA to come tow her. If this had happened this week...I would be absolutely a basket case. (Not that I wasn't when it did happen because I was out of town and had no way to go get her!)

[OrdinaryLife]

Whoa, whoa, y'all are making HUGE assumptions about people you don't know.

When someone is researching rolls, it usually means any of the Rolls (like roll call, which is what it was) that were taken from the beginning of contact to the Dawes/Henderson/Armstrong Rolls that establishes a maternal native line.

Most tribes are through maternal lines. You have to prove that your line is unbroken. You then have to take a blood test called a Blood Quantum test. That test defines how White you are, not how Indian. If you don't make the cut off, then you don't get to join the tribe. The government requires the test, the tribe sets the blood amount cut off.

I'm not sure how many people you've talked to but NOBODY, except the radicals (no not AIM) that protest still about getting off our land, is that upset at the people joining. It's the GOVERNMENT that has imposed blood quantum that they are upset with. We think it's a form of genocide to keep people out of the tribe. In no other race do you have to prove how much by blood you are. You would be amazed at the number of Black Indians, Hispanic Indians and Anglo Indians that are defined by blood as plain old Indian. We have a saying, you can't be half or part of anything and if you say you are part Indian they will ask you what part...your toe?

There aren't that many tribes that have huge money. And of the ones that do, Casinos give the majority of the money, which means they earn it themselves and it wasn't given by the gov. If a certain tribe doesn't have a Casino you are looking at less money than someone would get for SS. IF they have reason to have monies given them. Seriously! No one is going to kill two little girls over tribe money. They def won't kill to keep them out of the tribe. Good Gravy! I mean really, you can earn more money at Wal-Mart than many tribes get per month.

I AM native, a card carrying, number having, lived on a Rez native. My children on the other hand, are not because I married a white man and they didn't make the cut off. And I have a full blood as a grandparent and two grandparents who are half of one tribe and half of another.

Before you make sweeping notions remember that there are over 500 different tribes in the U.S and this would be the FIRST ever killing by a native to keep someone out of a tribe...ever. Never mind the hundreds of thousands of others that have joined since enrollment has been open. It just doesn't make sense.


Thank you for clearing up any questions concerning Rolls, bloodlines, and tests. I truly appreciate it. I had no idea what is involved. It is good to hear it from a person who is deeply part of this world and culture. Many, as myself, have absolutely no clue.

Thank you. So very much. It is always good to be enlightened... :)

[BhamMama]

What you are referring to has nothing to do with what I am talking about here.



Blood Quantum and the Dawes/Henderson/Armstrong rolls have everything to do with finding numbers and her asking about her grandmother and roll numbers, esp if she was looking for enrollment. That wasn't brought up by me.

I belong to the Western Band of Cherokee and the Kiowa. And yes, many elders may be upset, over any number of things, but they def aren't so upset they'd kill anyone, or instruct others to kill.

I know a few who don't have to work...a tiny few out of 7,000. Many of them elder who draw other monies other than casino money and a few that draw monies because they are on boards and such. Most people, myself included, don't get those mega checks. We get a head rights check. It's certainly not enough to live on. And you have to apply for those school scholarships just like anyone else would, education is not a given. You get the benefit of health care from a substandard 'hospital' if you are lucky, a glorified nurses station if you are not, but you have to go to an Indian hospital to get them.

My point is, I doubt anyone would kill to keep two little girls, or their families out of a tribe as was stated in this thread. The entitlements they would receive don't add up to the action of killing. Mad or not, they'd not hunt down two little girls they don't know and kill them for those reasons. Not when you have adults and many breeds roaming around that are closer to you...and they wouldn't be random.

It was made out that someone was pissed because they might get a 500 dollar check, some grossly understaffed hospital care and other wonderful things the BIA promises...and that someone doesn't like that. As a theory it's full of holes. That's what I'm trying to point out.

I can see a thrill killing, a pedo that made contact, someone they knew that wanted to hurt the family for drugs etc. But tribal enrollment?

[OrdinaryLife]

Jessica Brown said his hair was down to his lower back. The people calling in were giving tips on men who had shorter pony tails. This means he has been growing his hair and wearing it long for several years. People would know him because of his long hair, but there are many other NA who wear their hair the same length. It is traditional not to cut your hair unless there is a death and has sparked many lawsuits. (One I know of involved a policeman here in Tulsa. Nice guy and he won his rights to grow out his hair, too.) By the way, it looks as tho the sketch shows some graying which is possible. Could be he is older than they think.

If you look at the media update Poco shared, you would see the date of June 15th. Today. It sounds like LE has redefined earlier descriptions of POI.

[philamena]

snip

That is so close. You could throw a stone from the drive way of the house to the crime scene. Shouldn't the Grandfather have heard the gun shots?

That imo is a big red flag.
I don't know if the grandpa said if he heard the shots or not. But at that distance, Grandpa should have heard the shots. Unless he was mowing the grass or doing something noisy.

[SeriouslySearching]

If you look at the media update Poco shared, you would see the date of June 15th. Today. It sounds like LE has redefined earlier descriptions of POI.It was misleading and why I pointed it out. The article was written off of other articles. The people calling in were reporting on others who had shorter hair. If they were telling LE that this man's hair was not longer...then obviously they would know who he is. See what I mean? They DID redefine his hair as being down to his lower back.

Brown says the OSBI would like to clarify that the man in the sketch had a long ponytail that stretched to the small of his back.

"We're getting a lot of phone calls where it turns out the guy has a short ponytail or only shoulder length," Brown said.

http://www.kwtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8492479&nav=menu681_2

[philamena]

Fox News said that OSBI is going to come out with a new composite of the POI.

The spokesperson said all the witnesses are very much similar when describing him ....
imoo

So how many WITNESSES were there?
How many people saw this POI? :waitasec:

[KR2tonenow]

apparently 6.

The length of hair at this point, is fruitless.

He prob has a buzz job now.

[SeriouslySearching]

That imo is a big red flag.
I don't know if the grandpa said if he heard the shots or not. But at that distance, Grandpa should have heard the shots. Unless he was mowing the grass or doing something noisy.Brown stated that the wind was blowing away from his house and could be the reason he did not hear the shots plus if you were inside with the television on and the AC...it would not have been audible. I will have to find that article (unless she said that during the presser).

[SeriouslySearching]

apparently 6.She said in the presser when asked how many people were witnesses they had now inluding the two latest who saw the girls, saw the guy, and heard the shots approximately a half dozen. So we don't know exactly, but if you don't count the two...then it could be four others who heard the shots.

[SeriouslySearching]

apparently 6.

The length of hair at this point, is fruitless.

He prob has a buzz job now.I disagree. He isn't going to cut his hair.

[SeriouslySearching]

So how many WITNESSES were there?
How many people saw this POI? :waitasec:According to their reports, only one person saw the man and the truck. The other witness reported seeing the girls walking moments before, but we don't know if they reported seeing the man, too.

[KR2tonenow]

The hair will identify him for his tribe, correct?

[philamena]

apparently 6.

The length of hair at this point, is fruitless.

He prob has a buzz job now.

KR2,
Thanks.
I agree about the hair. If it was long before, I'd be willing to bet it's gone now.

[philamena]

Brown stated that the wind was blowing away from his house and could be the reason he did not hear the shots plus if you were inside with the television on and the AC...it would not have been audible. I will have to find that article (unless she said that during the presser).

SeriouslySearching,
Thanks so much. Makes perfect sense about the wind direction and grandpa being inside.

[SeriouslySearching]

The hair will identify him for his tribe, correct?No. There are many his age with hair that has not been cut for many years. If they are traditional, they won't cut their hair. It is the reason there are lawsuits about allowing long hair in prisons and other places where it would be required to have short hair...like the Tulsa Police Department. I don't think it is exclusive to one tribe tho.

[SuziQ]

If cutting his hair would be a unusual thing to do in his culture, then hopefully to those around him, it would stick out like a sore thumb. In fact, maybe OSBI should state just that to help people put two and two together.

ETA: and even a shorter ponytail shouldn't be ruled out if it was recently cut.

[KR2tonenow]

Possible comparison for sketch, see ponytail:

Front View (3/5/2008):
(http://docapp8.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=229&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&of fender_id=30516&county=Okfuskee&imageindex=1 (http://docapp8.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=229&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&offender_id=30516&county=Okfuskee)
Side View (3/5/2008):
http://docapp8.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=229&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&of fender_id=30516&county=Okfuskee&imageindex= (http://docapp8.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=229&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&offender_id=30516&county=Okfuskee&imageindex=3)

[harleysnana]

No. There are many his age with hair that has not been cut for many years. If they are traditional, they won't cut their hair. It is the reason there are lawsuits about allowing long hair in prisons and other places where it would be required to have short hair...like the Tulsa Police Department. I don't think it is exclusive to one tribe tho.

I would venture to say if he is facing 2 murder charges he would cut his hair.

[FlowerChild]

Possible comparison for sketch, see ponytail:

Front View (3/5/2008):
(http://docapp8.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=229&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&of fender_id=30516&county=Okfuskee&imageindex=1 (http://docapp8.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=229&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&offender_id=30516&county=Okfuskee)
Side View (3/5/2008):
http://docapp8.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=229&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&of fender_id=30516&county=Okfuskee&imageindex= (http://docapp8.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=229&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&offender_id=30516&county=Okfuskee&imageindex=3)

This is NOT a Native American
Wrong coloring, wrong hair color, wrong eye color.
Most NA's can't grow a mustache - very little body/facial hair
My Opinion

[SeriouslySearching]

I guess when they find him, we shall see. :) I hope it is today.

[cloudajo]

Area Weather on June 8, 2008
History for Okmulgee, OK (which is about 30 mi north of Weleetka)

Actuals:
Mean Temperature 84 °F / 28 °C
Max Temperature 91 °F / 32 °C
Min Temperature 78 °F / 25 °C

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOKM/2008/6/8/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Weleetka&req_state=OK&req_statename=Oklahoma (http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOKM/2008/6/8/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Weleetka&req_state=OK&req_statename=Oklahoma)

[KR2tonenow]

I do believe it was stated that he may be half white, this is a ponytail comparison above.

I'll check in later, Happy Fathers Day to all!

[OrdinaryLife]

I think the focus should not be just on a NA at this time. The possibilities of it being someone else is still very much out there.

Pedophiles do not murder before "having their way" with children. Personal satisfaction is first and hiding (killing) after the fact next. History has shown that. The fact that these two angels were shot to death multiple times show to me, IMVHO, that there is still the big possibilty of two shooters. I do not think one guy was like "cowboy Joe" with two guns ready to go. The timing was very quick.

I simply feel we should be careful of red herrings. Sometimes it is more simple than we give it credit for.

[SeriouslySearching]

This is NOT a Native American
Wrong coloring, wrong hair color, wrong eye color.
Most NA's can't grow a mustache - very little body/facial hair
My OpinionTrue, but he looks enough like the sketch to be considered. Maybe the hair threw them if he was tan and had shaved his mustache. (I know several who are mixed who can grow facial hair, but still look NA)

[kahskye]

To me, the no mention of Taylor's parents could mean they gave up their parental rights and gave custody to the grandparents. If you sign away your rights, you are no longer the parents. Maybe that's why there's no mention of them. :confused:

[SeriouslySearching]

To me, the no mention of Taylor's parents could mean they gave up their parental rights and gave custody to the grandparents. If you sign away your rights, you are no longer the parents. Maybe that's why there's no mention of them. :confused:True. I guess the angle of the parents is not worth looking at. I am still curious tho.

[SeriouslySearching]

This came out on our local news website today:

Authorities Clarify Possible Witness Description

Brown says the OSBI would like to clarify that the man in the sketch had a long ponytail that stretched to the small of his back.

Many callers have described a man with a short ponytail or shoulder-length hair.

Investigators have struggled to determine a motive in the killings of 13-year-old Taylor Paschal-Placker and 11-year-old Skyla Whitaker.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8493439

[cloudajo]

Just referencing several reports re witnesses. This one from NewsOK said “a couple of witnesses saw the man.” I think someone mentioned earlier, if the vehicle that drove by had both a guy and a girl inside, maybe that’s why they got details on the truck (e.g., thin chrome stripe, OK tags, chevy or ford single cab) and details on the face of the POI. They may have noticed different things but together came up with the description. Or they were separate witnesses at separate times.

June 14th – NewsOK
Brown described the man authorities want to interview as American Indian, 6 feet tall, with brown eyes and a long black ponytail. She said a couple of witnesses told the OSBI they saw the man near where the girls were found dead. Other witnesses said they heard gunshots but did not report seeing the man or his white truck, Brown said.

Brown declined to say how many gunshots were heard or at what times.

Fri, June 13th – Fox News
Brown also said Friday that a handful of witnesses have come forward to say they heard gunshots, which helps investigators piece together a timeline for the murders.

http://newsok.com/new-sketch-fuels-hope-in-slayings/article/3257467/ (http://newsok.com/new-sketch-fuels-hope-in-slayings/article/3257467/)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366464,00.html?sPage=fnc/us/crime (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366464,00.html?sPage=fnc/us/crime)

[SeriouslySearching]

I think it might be hard to tell how many with that many gunshots in rapid succession.

[FlowerChild]

True, but he looks enough like the sketch to be considered. Maybe the hair threw them if he was tan and had shaved his mustache. (I know several who are mixed who can grow facial hair, but still look NA)
Yes, but he lives in Weleetka and probably was checked out by LE within 24 hours - it has been a week now. If they were looking for HIM, they would give his NAME etc. I feel certain this is NOT the POI.

And yes men who are "part" NA can have more body/facial hair, but the witnesses have said the man appeared NA and these witnesses DO know what a NA male looks like. Plus this man appears to have wavy/curly hair light brown hair (NA hair is a dominant trait and is very straight and BLACK) and he also has a LOT of heavy facial hair (and a thick/heavy 5 o'clock shadow). Based on his neck, it also appears he has a fair amount of body hair - even perhaps a hairy back - that is NOT a NA trait. Even "part" NA men do NOT have heavy body hair - even a "part" NA that LOOKED NA enough to be described as NA would probably NOT have a heavy amount of body hair. Last, this guys eyes are BLUE - men who "look" NA to a witness who helped make a sketch as detailed as the one they released (with brown eyes) would notice a NA with blue eyes.

NA men who have long hair (for cultural reasons) also do not tie their hair in a "biker" pony tail with multiple bands on it. The ponytail shown is a biker pony tail - I can tell you from MY experience and knowledge that traditional NA men do NOT adopt this style, they usually braid instead. A single tie or a braid is the "accepted way" for NA men to wear their hair (if not loose).

I think we are focusing over and over on this SO and he is NOT the POI. And ethnically speaking, he does not appear the LEAST BIT Native American to me. They have specifically said this POI has VERY long hair - that describes a traditional NA male to me and I would expect that male to LOOK full-blooded NA (despite his actual % of NA blood).

My Opinion

[Leila]

Do you think it could be a possiblity that the parents on on a 'witness protection plan'. Not sure if that is what you call it in your country?

While that's a possibility - witness protection program - I think it's more likely that if my theory holds any water, it's someone who is angry with one or both of the parents for something (cheated in a drug deal???), who tracked down where the Plackers live, and staked out the house, waiting for someone to emerge from the residence that Sunday. Taylor may not have been the specific target.......the enemy's goal might have been to kill any member of the Placker family in revenge. Unfortunately, Taylor and Skyla were the two who emerged from the house and walked away from the home, where the shooter could kill them and escape.

If my theory is correct, and I admit it's only one of many theories, if the shooter's goal was to kill a member of the Placker family in revenge, it may not have mattered who he killed as long as it was a member of the Placker family. If either of the grandparents had left the house and walked down the road, it might have been them rather than the two girls.

[oceanblueeyes]

While that's a possibility - witness protection program - I think it's more likely that if my theory holds any water, it's someone who is angry with one or both of the parents for something (cheated in a drug deal???), who tracked down where the Plackers live, and staked out the house, waiting for someone to emerge from the residence that Sunday. Taylor may not have been the specific target.......the enemy's goal might have been to kill any member of the Placker family in revenge. Unfortunately, Taylor and Skyla were the two who emerged from the house and walked away from the home, where the shooter could kill them and escape.

If my theory is correct, and I admit it's only one of many theories, if the shooter's goal was to kill a member of the Placker family in revenge, it may not have mattered who he killed as long as it was a member of the Placker family. If either of the grandparents had left the house and walked down the road, it might have been them rather than the two girls.

What could the revenge be that they would take it out on two young girls. One who was not even a Placker and had no connection.

I tend to believe LE and they have said they do not believe that family members or friends are involved in this crime. In fact they seem to still be mystified while searching for a motive. Maybe the motive was just to kill because they could when they saw two vulnerable young children out on a country road walking?

I just think the vendetta thing is so out there when they could have laid in wait until one of both adults left their property but killing young girls in broad daylight out of some kind of vendetta just doesn't make sense to me.

With him so bold and not hiding his features makes me think he doesnt know the Plackers and those who live around there don't know who he is. He may have lived 20-30 miles away.

imoo

[FlowerChild]

While that's a possibility - witness protection program - I think it's more likely that if my theory holds any water, it's someone who is angry with one or both of the parents for something (cheated in a drug deal???), who tracked down where the Plackers live, and staked out the house, waiting for someone to emerge from the residence that Sunday. Taylor may not have been the specific target.......the enemy's goal might have been to kill any member of the Placker family in revenge. Unfortunately, Taylor and Skyla were the two who emerged from the house and walked away from the home, where the shooter could kill them and escape.

If my theory is correct, and I admit it's only one of many theories, if the shooter's goal was to kill a member of the Placker family in revenge, it may not have mattered who he killed as long as it was a member of the Placker family. If either of the grandparents had left the house and walked down the road, it might have been them rather than the two girls.
That is what I think also - I don't think they even knew WHO they were killing or which (if either) child was a "Placker". They killed who was "easiest" - in cold blood and left a message for the family by doing it "execution" style. This wasn't a messy, emotional, haphazard killing - it was cold, hard, cruel and controlled. The killer didn't even "run" when he was clearly observed practically with the bodies acting in a "suspicious" manner.

Either this man was unafraid because he was going to go elsewhere and kill himself OR he knows he cannot be ID'd connected with the victims. If he is a "pro" he may never be found - and there may never be an explanation except that it is "related" to Taylor's family somehow. And if it was a "hit" he got directions to the Placker home specifically and has no ties to or knowledge of the area at ALL. And if it comes out that the truck is history - as in found burned somewhere or in a chop shop etc...I will be even more sure that this was a stranger murder.

By now one would assume that locally SOMEONE would have put together the sketch and the POI and the truck - if the person was local. That hasn't happened - and time is passing.

This just has a "hit" feel to me - revenge, punishment, justice, pay-back - and connected somehow to the Placker family - as in someone wanted to "hurt" the family by killing SOMEONE in it. I don't think it is related to the people living in the home AT ALL, except to HURT them.

My Opinion

[oceanblueeyes]

That is what I think also - I don't think they even knew WHO they were killing or which (if either) child was a "Placker". They killed who was "easiest" - in cold blood and left a message for the family by doing it "execution" style. This wasn't a messy, emotional, haphazard killing - it was cold, hard, cruel and controlled. The killer didn't even "run" when he was clearly observed practically with the bodies acting in a "suspicious" manner.

Either this man was unafraid because he was going to go elsewhere and kill himself OR he knows he cannot be ID'd connected with the victims. If he is a "pro" he may never be found - and there may never be an explanation except that it is "related" to Taylor's family somehow. And if it was a "hit" he got directions to the Placker home specifically and has no ties to or knowledge of the area at ALL. And if it comes out that the truck is history - as in found burned somewhere or in a chop shop etc...I will be even more sure that this was a stranger murder.

By now one would assume that locally SOMEONE would have put together the sketch and the POI and the truck - if the person was local. That hasn't happened - and time is passing.

This just has a "hit" feel to me - revenge, punishment, justice, pay-back - and connected somehow to the Placker family - as in someone wanted to "hurt" the family by killing SOMEONE in it. I don't think it is related to the people living in the home AT ALL, except to HURT them.

My Opinion

Why the Placker family.......why not the Whitaker family?

Do hit men usually do hits on young children, especially girls?

imoo

[SeriouslySearching]

I didn't mean hit like that...that someone ordered it. I meant hit as in the way he carried out the killings. They were executed, imo. It could have something to do with her family, who knows? We still have no motive and are purely speculating on everything here.

I still think we will find this had something to do with drugs.

[SuziQ]

Because of where the crime happened I would place a connection to the Plackers over the Whittakers. However, you could also say that because the crime happened so close to the house, the suspect had no clue the girls were so close to home and therefore did not know them or the Placker family. I think the latter because it would be risky to kill to girls close to their house. Who knows though, what goes on in a murderers mind.

[SailorMoon]

Well, here we are almost at the one week mark, just an hour or so short. Those poor little girls. How sad. I wonder about Taylor's real parents....possible revenge. And what a busy little deserted road that was at that time. 6 witnesses? Of course it could as simple as 2 cars simply saw him. I still lean towards rolling lab or dumping a body..but who knows.

[SuziQ]

I didn't mean hit like that...that someone ordered it. I meant hit as in the way he carried out the killings. They were executed, imo. It could have something to do with her family, who knows? We still have no motive and are purely speculating on everything here.

I still think we will find this had something to do with drugs.

I'd have to find the link again. But early on, someone from OSBI did state the girls were executed or killed execution style. I can't remember the exact words.

[SeriouslySearching]

Because of where the crime happened I would place a connection to the Plackers over the Whittakers. However, you could also say that because the crime happened so close to the house, the suspect had no clue the girls were so close to home and therefore did not know them or the Placker family. I think the latter because it would be risky to kill to girls close to their house. Who knows though, what goes on in a murderers mind.I just wish that we could turn back time and that they had been spending the night at Skyla's house instead. Of course, if it weren't the two girls...it sounds like it could have been anyone in that place that particular day. :(

[SeriouslySearching]

I'd have to find the link again. But early on, someone from OSBI did state the girls were executed or killed execution style. I can't remember the exact words.The shot from under the chin is the one that gets me the most in that respect.

[FlowerChild]

Why the Placker family.......why not the Whitaker family?

Do hit men usually do hits on young children, especially girls?

imoo
I think it was done to "hurt" the Placker family - and what would "hurt" the most? Killing their child (or children). Although I don't think it was targeted at ANYONE specifically - the girls happened to be "easy" to kill. I don't know the person even knew WHO he was killing - just that they came out of the Placker house. It was just killing the easiest person who was associated with the family.

OR it was someone associated with Taylors bio parent(S) (still unknown) who wanted to hurt the GP's.

And Taylor's family because it happened 300 yards from their door. The killer could have watched the girls leave and waited for them to walk back toward him. Like a shooting gallery - they were shot down like in a shooting gallery game.

It's those "kill shots" under the chin that tell me the person wanted to make damn sure they were dead and that they were marked in such a way as to "give a message" to SOMEONE - those kill shots can be interpreted pretty clearly as "it wasn't an accident, we hunted them down and executed them where they stood - almost on your doorstep".

My Opinion

[SuziQ]

Well, here we are almost at the one week mark, just an hour or so short. Those poor little girls. How sad. I wonder about Taylor's real parents....possible revenge. And what a busy little deserted road that was at that time. 6 witnesses? Of course it could as simple as 2 cars simply saw him. I still lean towards rolling lab or dumping a body..but who knows.

At this point, I can't even begin to guess at a motive. It is all so senseless.

I'm going to sign off here. I'm tired. Last night a neighbor brought over a tiny kitten they rescued and handed to me to nurse back to health. What at first appeared to be infected eyes seems to now be no eyes at all. Anyways, off to take a long nap!

Have a great Father's Day everyone.

[DeltaDawn]

It seems like the girls witnessed something that may have been happening in the wooded area and they were killed rather then risk their telling someone. Perhaps a rape or drug deal was taking place..unseen to someone driving by, but to the girls walking they may have heard noises and looked in the woods. I just can't comprehend someone wanting to harm these two, unless they saw or overheard something that was illegal.

[philamena]

IIRC that area recieved a lot of rain a day or 2 before the murders. IF the murderer(s) walked in the woods , foot prints would have been visible.

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it was done to "hurt" the Placker family - and what would "hurt" the most? Killing their child (or children). Although I don't think it was targeted at ANYONE specifically - the girls happened to be "easy" to kill. I don't know the person even knew WHO he was killing - just that they came out of the Placker house. It was just killing the easiest person who was associated with the family.

OR it was someone associated with Taylors bio parent(S) (still unknown) who wanted to hurt the GP's.

And Taylor's family because it happened 300 yards from their door. The killer could have watched the girls leave and waited for them to walk back toward him. Like a shooting gallery - they were shot down like in a shooting gallery game.

It's those "kill shots" under the chin that tell me the person wanted to make damn sure they were dead and that they were marked in such a way as to "give a message" to SOMEONE - those kill shots can be interpreted pretty clearly as "it wasn't an accident, we hunted them down and executed them where they stood - almost on your doorstep".

My Opinion

Are you going by what Skyla's grandmother said, FlowerChild? I no more believe that LE has discussed in graphic detail how these children were shot and where specifically with any family members. I think this was an assumption on her part and she has no knowledge of what is an entry wound and an exit wound is. Skyla could have just as easily been shot in the top of her head with the exit wound coming out in the chin area.

Family members have already said that LE is not sharing the evidence with them. OSBI knows these people are struggling to deal with the deaths and tragic loss and would never subject them to graphic details that would serve no purpose other than to further shatter their hearts imo.

I don't see it as an execution. If so they both would have been shot in the head at very close range and not in the arms and legs too but I do see the killer someone very determined to do whatever it took to see that these girls were dead no matter how many shots it took.

I am sure the very first thing LE did was find out about Taylor's bio parents as well as looking at the Whitaker parents too.

imoo

[txsvicki]

If the POI did it and was rational and not high or insane, I don't understand why he didn't duck when the witnesses drove by, or try to disguise himself in some way if the murders were planned. I'm still leaning towards thinking that this was some sort of impulsive psychotic rage attack.

[FlowerChild]

It seems like the girls witnessed something that may have been happening in the wooded area and they were killed rather then risk their telling someone. Perhaps a rape or drug deal was taking place..unseen to someone driving by, but to the girls walking they may have heard noises and looked in the woods. I just can't comprehend someone wanting to harm these two, unless they saw or overheard something that was illegal.
I don't think they COULD have seen anything in 30 minutes that would incite a killing of 2 girls in such a fashion that
A - no-one else saw any evidence of and
B - that wouldn't alarm the girls enough to make then run home or call home?? They appeared to be walking calmly home.

The OSBI has looked the area over pretty well from the air and on the ground - probably to establish if it was related to another crime. If it was, one would assume there would be SOME evidence? Tire tracks? It isn't easy to just drive off the road in these areas - fences, brush etc.

A drug deal would not be enough motive IMO - and the girls didn't just appear and surprise someone on the road - the people would have easily seen and heard them coming.

A rolling lab - on such a well traveled road so close to TWO highways when there are a hundred really REMOTE roads right there? Doesn't seem like THAT to me and nobody said they saw a van or truck associated, or in the area.

A body dump, maybe, but where were they dumping the body? Off the road? Off the bridge? 300 yards from a house? Where's the body? And why weren't the girls more alarmed? Did the POI then drive off with the body in his truck bed?

OSBI is still looking so perhaps more info is coming???

My Opinion

[philamena]

If the POI did it and was rational and not high or insane, I don't understand why he didn't duck when the witnesses drove by, or try to disguise himself in some way if the murders were planned. I'm still leaning towards thinking that this was some sort of impulsive psychotic rage attack.

At first I was leaning towards the killer being someone known to the girls. Now I'm leaning, like you, towards this being an impulse killing.

[Beyond Belief]

have a question for someone who has followed on the names here which I haven't but i may have found something.
anybody? i want to do it thru a p.m. as not to violate the persons privacy.

[evelyn24]

I'd have to find the link again. But early on, someone from OSBI did state the girls were executed or killed execution style. I can't remember the exact words.

Many thrill kill murders are execution style too.
It seems to me to be a thrill kill...just someone angry at society looking to lash out in the most hurtful evil way, or someone the girls ignored because he was trying to talk to them (maybe a SO or a wannabe SO), or they rebuffed his advances with a smart remark as they walked along the road back home, and he perceived this to be "insulting" and decided to blast them.
I don't think it's a paid hit or a revenge hit.
Maybe this nut planned to go murder the first person or people he saw that were a little isolated, and he could make an escape...he drove around until he spotted the girls walking alone down the dirt road?

He is most likely from another town close by, not an immediate local. He knows the area from going hunting, target practice, or just traveling around. However, I bet he's not known by the people around the immediate area.

JMO.

[Leila]

What could the revenge be that they would take it out on two young girls. One who was not even a Placker and had no connection.

I tend to believe LE and they have said they do not believe that family members or friends are involved in this crime. In fact they seem to still be mystified while searching for a motive. Maybe the motive was just to kill because they could when they saw two vulnerable young children out on a country road walking?

I just think the vendetta thing is so out there when they could have laid in wait until one of both adults left their property but killing young girls in broad daylight out of some kind of vendetta just doesn't make sense to me.

With him so bold and not hiding his features makes me think he doesnt know the Plackers and those who live around there don't know who he is. He may have lived 20-30 miles away.

imoo

A scenario to illustrate my theory.............

If Taylor's parent or parents are involved in some sort of criminal activity, they could have made an enemy. Perhaps they cheated someone in a drug deal. The parents in all likelihood don't live anywhere near Waleetka.

The enemy doesn't know Taylor or her grandparents - only knows that the Placker family lives in Weleetka. The enemy tracks the family down, and finds an address, either in the telephone book or online. The enemy doesn't know who lives in the Placker house, only that they are related to the person who they're angry at, the person they're seeking revenge against for something done to the enemy.

The enemy drives down the road and identifies the Placker residence, and scouts out an area to observe the comings and goings. The enemy has vowed to kill a member or members of the Placker family in revenge for something done to the enemy.

He sees Taylor and Skyla emerge from the Placker residence and walk down the road. The enemy doesn't know if one of both are members of the Placker family. To him, it doesn't matter, he has to kill them both so there's no witnesses.

As far as the enemy is concerned, it didn't matter who he killed, as long as it was a member of the Placker family. If it was any other day of the week but Sunday, it could have been the grandmother or grandfather walking to the mailbox to get the mail. With someone like the enemy, it doesn't matter who he kills. This is a cold-blooded killer with no respect for human life. To him it doesn't matter if the victim or victims are children or adults.

[cloudajo]

I haven’t seen new sketch but I saw this about reward now being at $30,000. Also, the sketch on this site has text on it with a description of his build, clothing, and baseball cap which I hadn’t seen before.

--------------
The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation is offering a $30,000 reward — collected partly from donations from around the world — for information that leads to a suspect in the case. Anyone with information is asked to call the OSBI hot line at (800) 522-8017.


Text on sketch summarized and snipped (see pic and zoom in to read full text)
American Indian male possibly part Caucasian…slender body build, …Clothing: blue grey long sleeve shirt, faded jeans and black baseball cap. Vehicle…

http://newsok.com/photos/gallery/?&gallery_id=3709&photo_id=52616e646f6d49565e4c1f2298f6ab88cd52326f0 21b671b (http://newsok.com/photos/gallery/?&gallery_id=3709&photo_id=52616e646f6d49565e4c1f2298f6ab88cd52326f0 21b671b)

[SeriouslySearching]

Great find, Cloud! I wondered why they had not put out an accurate description of the clothes he was wearing. This means the witness must have seen him full view, too. Strange way to dress on a hot Oklahoma day, imo. With the boots he was wearing, it could indicate he had been in the woods. People wear long sleeves because of the ticks and to prevent getting scratched by the brush. Interesting.

[philamena]

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d4956f76766afc2ac9bf884cc8499f147ce3c http://newsok.com/photos/gallery/?&gallery_id=3709&photo_id=52616e646f6d495678b91173a1754012edf6c99d6 adea5f6

Colored sketch of POI.

[Albert18]

Why is this clothing information on the POI just coming out now? These people need to get their act together.

Polly Klaas's dad also made a good point about the reward money. Put out the best reward you can and leave it alone. Don't change it unless you can at least double the amount. If you keep changing the amount like it is an auction people will just wait for a higher price.

[philamena]

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d49562a08b5e168aaea24bf8e9c362c3b6fa4 http://newsok.com/photos/gallery/?&gallery_id=3709&photo_id=52616e646f6d495678b91173a1754012edf6c99d6 adea5f6

Makeshift memorial on side of road.

[philamena]

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d495674aa83e70451ea753b0828770a8463df http://newsok.com/photos/gallery/?&gallery_id=3709&photo_id=52616e646f6d495678b91173a1754012edf6c99d6 adea5f6

Notice the distance from the road, to the ditch to the place where the flowers are placed.

[cloudajo]

Great find, Cloud! I wondered why they had not put out an accurate description of the clothes he was wearing. This means the witness must have seen him full view, too. Strange way to dress on a hot Oklahoma day, imo. With the boots he was wearing, it could indicate he had been in the woods. People wear long sleeves because of the ticks and to prevent getting scratched by the brush. Interesting.

Yeah, I'm surprised clothing and color of cap wasn't in more news reports.

[philamena]

Check out the above picture.
Road, ditch, mashed down grass where a makeshift memorial is made for the girls.

Were the girls found in the ditch?
Or where the flowers are being placed?

[philamena]

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d49569480fb364ac3468aff55d3f680426190

This is a picture of Taylor Paschal-Placker's brother and grandparents that raised her at her funeral in Dewar, Friday, June 13.

[SeriouslySearching]

That photo gallery is incredible. The one of Skyla and her father is sweet.

I also noticed the one where the LE officer is carrying away the guest book from the service, too. Good move on their part.

[ArizonaGiGi]

To clarify, we do not have "reservations" in Oklahoma. The nearest Res where people would go is in the northern states. I can't remember if it is S. or N. Dakota.

We have tribal lands which unless you knew they where they were exactly...you could not tell the difference. In Tulsa, tribal lands house Casinos. It only means the land is owned by the tribe...so anywhere they buy land can be considered "tribal". Hope this clears up this misconception.

I have one right across the street from me. Looking at it right now. I'm in Arizona

[SeriouslySearching]

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d49569480fb364ac3468aff55d3f680426190 Maybe her father instead of brother?

[philamena]

SS,
Exactly what I'm wondering.
The pictures are heartbreaking. :(

[SeriouslySearching]

I have one right across the street from me. Looking at it right now. I'm in ArizonaI know there are other reservations, but I was only referencing the one in South Dakota because it is the one where people here go most often and the stories I have heard about. I guess each Tribe has their own and the people I know go to SD if they want to live on the res. That is all I meant. :)

[oceanblueeyes]

A scenario to illustrate my theory.............

If Taylor's parent or parents are involved in some sort of criminal activity, they could have made an enemy. Perhaps they cheated someone in a drug deal. The parents in all likelihood don't live anywhere near Waleetka.

The enemy doesn't know Taylor or her grandparents - only knows that the Placker family lives in Weleetka. The enemy tracks the family down, and finds an address, either in the telephone book or online. The enemy doesn't know who lives in the Placker house, only that they are related to the person who they're angry at, the person they're seeking revenge against for something done to the enemy.

The enemy drives down the road and identifies the Placker residence, and scouts out an area to observe the comings and goings. The enemy has vowed to kill a member or members of the Placker family in revenge for something done to the enemy.

He sees Taylor and Skyla emerge from the Placker residence and walk down the road. The enemy doesn't know if one of both are members of the Placker family. To him, it doesn't matter, he has to kill them both so there's no witnesses.

As far as the enemy is concerned, it didn't matter who he killed, as long as it was a member of the Placker family. If it was any other day of the week but Sunday, it could have been the grandmother or grandfather walking to the mailbox to get the mail. With someone like the enemy, it doesn't matter who he kills. This is a cold-blooded killer with no respect for human life. To him it doesn't matter if the victim or victims are children or adults.

I can buy one part of your theory. This man had no regard for human life. He was cold as stone and imo he didn't flinch an inch when he mowed them down imo but I am not sure that would encompass only the type of killer you have described but many psychopaths/sociopaths who could do this horrible thing and never think twice about it either.

Taylor was 13, why now? What if she had always been raised by her grandparents since birth? What if the bio parents were okay with it or simply didn't care one way or another as long as they weren't having to raise her?

It is so hard for me to comprehend that a hit man would murder young children just to get back at grandparents or any adults. Why not kill the grandparents...then maybe the bio parents could petition to get Taylor back with them?

I do still believe that OSBI has totally checked out Taylor's bio parents from day one. I am sure the grandparents have told them where they are and the situation surrounding Taylor being raised as their own child.

I just think something happened between the time when they walked to and from the bridge. Some kind of interaction or an attempt that the girls ignored and it made him seeth with anger, that he had been rejected. I don't know if it had anything to do with sex but maybe he thought they wouldn't ride back with him or talk to him because of his ethnicity and it drove him into a rage. Maybe he instantly hated them both in his twisted evil mind and had a hair trigger temper.

I am only guessing because really I have no reason that would ever make this understandable in my eyes.

imoo

[Littledeer]

:clap:

I am only guessing because really I have no reason that would ever make this understandable in my eyes.

I've only made two posts here, but have read every single post since this happened. oceanblueeyes: You said exactly how I feel.

NOTHING WOULD EVERY MAKE THIS UNDERSTANDABLE IN MY EYES EITHER!!

[SeriouslySearching]

I can't wait until they find this guy. Surely he isn't going to be able to hide out for long anywhere he is. Someone is going to at least be able to give them a name. The sketch is so remarkable. I think it is the best one I have seen. Let's just hope the memory of the witness is exact and this does look like him enough.

I must say the nose seems wrong to me tho. I would expect it to be more rounded and have a slight bend to it by looking at the side view. I wonder if the artist used a program for the sketch. I have noticed some of those limit the features.

[txsvicki]

I agree. The side sketch doesn't quite seem to match the front view. He almost looks stoop shouldered in the side sketch

[ArizonaGiGi]

Brown stated that the wind was blowing away from his house and could be