Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #4

[SeriouslySearching]

Thread 1: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65845
Thread 2: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66012
Thread 3: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66072

POI:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/SeriouslySearching/POI1.jpg

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366464,00.html

[SeriouslySearching]

Nancy Grace is covering it right now. according to the police they do believe that there were two shooters! Skyler's grandmother is on,she says the police are trying hard to find the killers. As of now they have no suspects and no idea why this happened. The police believe that the suspects are local,I thought NG weekend was only a recap of the week's stories and not live. Am I mistaken? This was done before they had a POI and the descriptions of the vehicle etc.

[SeriouslySearching]

Wasn't there conflicting reports as to which end of the truck was toward the ditch? Couldn't the front of the truck have had a non-official tag on referring to the state of OK in some way?First, Welcome to WS, Westbender! We only have plates on the back of a vehicle here. If they saw an Oklahoma license plate, it would mean the truck had to be in the road with the back facing the witnesses instead of the crime scene.

[oceanblueeyes]

I thought NG weekend was only a recap of the week's stories and not live. Am I mistaken? This was done before they had a POI and the descriptions of the vehicle etc.

So this one tonight did not show the composite drawing?

imoo

[January.]

Hi everyone, I hope you don't mind me jumping in the discussion. I'm not new to WS, rather new to posting. I pop in here from time to time to read up on certain cases. I've been following these threads for the past few days now.

I do think this is a recap on Nancy Grace, because she has just mentioned the reward being increased to $25,000, which is outdated.

As for the POI, why would he be "blocking" the road as the witnesses have stated? Could he have been serving as a lookout for something going on up the road and/or in the woods which the girls had stumbled on?

Also, I think you are correct in assuming one of Taylor's brothers or sisters is a biological parent. Peter and Vicky Placker look rather young to have a 13 year old granddaughter which leads me to believe that one of their children had Taylor at a very young age and therefore they adopted her as their own daughter. I've seen this scenario several times before, and the bio parent doesn't think of the child as their own, but rather their sibling.

[SeriouslySearching]

Nancy Grace is a rerun. Sorry. When you don't see her phone number listed on the right lower corner...it is a rerun. I already saw the piece with Mark Klaas discussing raising the rewards in increments.

[kahskye]

I have to agree w/ what JBean said in a previous post.

I have seen reports that refer to the grandparents as the bio grandparents. If that is accurate, we know it is the child of one of the kids.
My suspicion is that perhaps she is the product of 2 step siblings
One Placker one Paschal and it is just not a topic open for discussion in their eyes. I would think in their opinion, it is no one's business and she has been raised by the grandparents.
JMHO of course!

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to posting, January! Look forward to hearing more of your thoughts! :)

He could have been a lookout. He also could have been using the truck to shield himself from the crossroad while shooting the girls, too. I theorize that he had already shot the girls and was getting into his truck to leave. He was obviously shaken by being seen as they said he acted "suspiciously".

[evelyn24]

I thought this is what Skyla's grandmother said that he told her daughter when he rushed to hold her back when she came up the road toward the crime scene?

What did Skyla's mom say he said?

I would think it would be hard to process all of that information and remember verbatim. I would be in such shock that I am not even sure I could hear people even around me talking.

imoo

Right.
Skyla's grandmother mentioned that Taylor's grandfather said, 'They killed the girls', to Skyla's mom. People seem to think this is an odd choice of words.
I said that we have no idea if that is exactly what Taylor's dad (grandfather) said to Skyla's mom, because Skyla's mom could have been paraphrasing when retelling the story, or it's possible she incorrectly heard him.
I don't want to over analyzing the wording supposedly used by Taylor's dad (grandfather) when we really don't know exactly what he said.

[Snowlover77]

Seriously Searching, How far do you live form where these murders happened?

[SeriouslySearching]

So this one tonight did not show the composite drawing?

imooNo, it didn't.

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi everyone, I hope you don't mind me jumping in the discussion. I'm not new to WS, rather new to posting. I pop in here from time to time to read up on certain cases. I've been following these threads for the past few days now.

I do think this is a recap on Nancy Grace, because she has just mentioned the reward being increased to $25,000, which is outdated.

As for the POI, why would he be "blocking" the road as the witnesses have stated? Could he have been serving as a lookout for something going on up the road and/or in the woods which the girls had stumbled on?

Also, I think you are correct in assuming one of Taylor's brothers or sisters is a biological parent. Peter and Vicky Placker look rather young to have a 13 year old granddaughter which leads me to believe that one of their children had Taylor at a very young age and therefore they adopted her as their own daughter. I've seen this scenario several times before, and the bio parent doesn't think of the child as their own, but rather their sibling.

Welcome January!

Here is my take on it and nothing more.

I think this witness was heading in the same direction as the POI. He was not actually blocking the road but he was "sort of or kinda" blocking this witnesses path. I think he was far enough out in the road maybe half the width of his truck and that made the witness have to swing out around him and make sure there was no oncoming traffic before they did.

Of course until this case is solved we really wont know if there was one or two involved. Since no one has come forward saying that they saw another stranger that day then IMOO this guy is IT.

I think he was up ahead of them closer to Taylor's home and was laying in wait for them to approach.

I agree. I think the bio parents of Taylor is a non issue.

JMO tho.

[SeriouslySearching]

Seriously Searching, How far do you live form where these murders happened?I am in Tulsa so I live about 70 miles from there.

[evelyn24]

Nancy Grace is a rerun. Sorry. When you don't see her phone number listed on the right lower corner...it is a rerun. I already saw the piece with Mark Klaas discussing raising the rewards in increments.

Yup, it's a repeat.

[oceanblueeyes]

No, it didn't.


Thanks. I still cant believe that AMW didn't get that sketch out there last night. I was shocked. Even if they air it again next week they have wasted an entire week.

imoo

[txsvicki]

It was said somewhere that the truck was almost perpendicular to the road.

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, that is what OSBI Jessica Brown said. I was looking for the quote.

[Snowlover77]

I am in Tulsa so I live about 70 miles from there.

Ok..my sister lives in Idabel, Oklahoma. Not sure how far that is from Tulsa or where the murders happened.

[oceanblueeyes]

Thread 1: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65845
Thread 2: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66012
Thread 3: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66072

POI:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/SeriouslySearching/POI1.jpg

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366464,00.html

In this link Brown states....


Brown called the man a "witness" and a "possible person of interest," and said someone saw him standing in front of a white Ford or Chevy single-cab pickup truck on County Line Road around the time of the girls' death.

"He was stopped on the road actually kind of blocking the way there, standing outside his pickup truck, doing something," she said. "And they couldn't really tell what he was doing, so they kept driving because it looked a little suspicious."

[Snowlover77]

Yes, that is what OSBI Jessica Brown said. I was looking for the quote.
we talked about this last night. Jessica Brown from OSBI stated that the witness stated that the truck was,"actually kind of blocking the way there." Then she goes on to say the witness said he was standing outisde his truck doing something and they couldn't tell what he was doing so they kept on driving because it looked suspicious.

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks, Ocean and Snow. :)

I still think that the witness could have been driving past on the east-west road and did not go around him.

I wish they would show the witness several trucks and let him pick out the one he saw so they can put a photo out of it.

[oceanblueeyes]

we talked about this last night. Jessica Brown from OSBI stated that the witness stated that the truck was,"actually kind of blocking the way there." Then she goes on to say the witness said he was standing outside his truck doing something and they couldn't tell what he was doing so they kept on driving because it looked suspicious.


Good memory, Snow.

And he couldn't have been blocking the road very much or the witness wouldn't have been able to drive on by him.

imoo

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't think the witness did drive around him. See above. :)

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think the witness did drive around him. See above. :)


LOL OK, I will admit I am tired. It says the witness kept driving so if he was blocking the road he would have to swing out around him to keep driving. I think the reason he was able to keep driving was no one was coming in the other lane or the other side of the road.

:crazy:

[SeriouslySearching]

Or...he kept driving east or west on the other road without turning down the County Line road at all.

[Snowlover77]

Good memory, Snow.

And he couldn't have been blocking the road very much or the witness wouldn't have been able to drive on by him.

imoo
Yea, I think from what the OSBI spokesperson said that this witness said..the truck was kind of blocking the road..meaning not blocking it in a way where someone could not drive by it...
I think it was just sticking out in the road a little bit but because of the way it was parked, it raised suspicions and to see a person doing something and you can't really tell what he doing...you keep on driving. But as I said last night...in that type of scenario, I would have looked really hard at the fellow and the truck and made note of the time, etc...because if something does happen, such as a crtime, then you will have valuable info for the police. And obviously this witness that kept on driving got a good look at this guy so you know the whole event raised his or hers eyebrows and suspicions.

[oceanblueeyes]

Or...he kept driving east or west on the other road.

You are confusing me, which is rather easy tonight, it seems.:p I see one long dirt road. What other road?

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Yea, I think from what the OSBI spokesperson said that this witness said..the truck was kind of blocking the road..meaning not blocking it in a way where someone could not drive by it...
I think it was just sticking out in the road a little bit but because of the way it was parked, it raised suspicions and to see a person doing something and you can't really tell what he doing...you keep on driving. But as I said last night...in that type of scenario, I would have looked really hard at the fellow and the truck and made note of the time, etc...because if something does happen, such as a crime, then you will have valuable info for the police. And obviously this witness that kept on driving got a good look at this guy so you know the whole event raised his or hers eyebrows and suspicions.

Yes and I sure am glad they noticed him in detail. They will be valuable if there is a trial.

I also wonder what "within minutes" means when it comes to the witness who saw the girls alive shortly before the crime?

imoo

[SeriouslySearching]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2298653&postcount=729

If you will go look at this photo...since the sign is sitting right there...I would have to assume there is a road going east-west on this side of that sign. If the witness was driving about where that photographer was standing...he could clearly see the man and the truck without going down that road.

[philamena]

In this link Brown states....
SNIP

"He was stopped on the road actually kind of blocking the way there, standing outside his pickup truck, doing something," she said. "And they couldn't really tell what he was doing, so they kept driving because it looked a little suspicious."

If he was doing 'something' and had his head turned towards the truck, the so called witness didn't see his eyes.
OR was he on the other side of the truck, facing the witnesses car while doing 'something' and the witnesses got a good look at him?

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2298653&postcount=729

If you will go look at this photo...since the sign is sitting right there...I would have to assume there is a road going east-west on this side of that sign. If the witness was driving about where that photographer was standing...he could clearly see the man and the truck without going down that road.

I see what you are saying but I was under the impression that was where they just blocked off this same dirt road in that particular area. That the sign is not at an intersection but just a barrier put up to prevent anyone from going down into the crime scene area.

Is there a map showing it intersects with another road right there?

Maybe I need to think on it some more.lol I think this man was on the main road and the witness was too.

imoo

[Albert18]

I understand what people are saying about Taylor's parentage but I think the lying should stop at the grave.

When you lie about stuff like this you do it because you are ashamed of the situation. Which translates to being ashamed of the kid. Taylor deserved an honest obituary. It should have been the least the adults in the family could have done for her. Obituaries can be a very imporant historical record.

The name I post under, Albert, comes from my great uncle who died during the influenza pandemic in 1918. He was 18 years old when he died. I feel a great connection to him and earlier this year I traveled to visit his grave. I know almost nothing about him and have only two small pictures of him. Back in the 1970's my grandmother, his sister, wrote a short family history and didn't even mention his name.

So how do we know there won't be somebody in 50 or 100 years who wonders if they are connected to Taylor. Someone who is born long after most or all of us are dead. That person shouldn't have to overcome a bunch of roadblocks because adults of the day couldn't face the truth.

[oceanblueeyes]

If he was doing 'something' and had his head turned towards the truck, the so called witness didn't see his eyes.
OR was he on the other side of the truck, facing the witnesses car while doing 'something' and the witnesses got a good look at him?

Well if he was on the other side of his truck at 6 feet he sure could be seen. I am sure when they passed by they did slowly but kept moving.

The comments are so vague they really aren't in depth for us to know his exact position. One article I thought said he was standing beside his truck. He may have had his door open some and they couldn't see what he was doing but they could see his face easily when they passed him and his long ponytail too.

imoo

[txsvicki]

Seems like the witness would have had to pass the man in order to see brown eyes and get such a description. To keep on driving means that they didn't stop and ask the man if he needed help IMO.

[philamena]

Well if he was on the other side of his truck at 6 feet he sure could be seen. I am sure when they passed by they did slowly but kept moving.

The comments are so vague they really aren't in depth for us to know his exact position. One article I thought said he was standing beside his truck. He may have had his door open and they couldn't see what he was doing but they could see his face easily when they passed him and his long ponytail too.

imoo
I'm basically thinking out loud.
Ocean, you get what I'm saying right? :waitasec:lol
If the POI was facing the woods, the witnesses couldn't have seen his face.
argg I wish there was more confirmed facts.

[SeriouslySearching]

I keep trying to look on Google to see if there is a road, but I can't tell. It looks like it tho.

Yes, I guess you are right. He would have had to be closer to see his eyes etc. Unless they are guessing at the eyes because of his obviously being NA. It was just a thought anyway. :)

[CarpeDiem]

I'm basically thinking out loud.
Ocean, you get what I'm saying right? :waitasec:lol
If the POI was facing the woods, the witnesses couldn't have seen his face.
argg I wish there was more confirmed facts.

Me too, any you make a good point.

I've wondered too if this POI description isn't wrong, if the person isn't actually hispanic.

[SeriouslySearching]

The witness also must have gotten a good side view of him, too, since they have that on the sketch.

[SeriouslySearching]

I would think they would know the difference between the two easily as we have a huge Hispanic population here, too.

[philamena]

(Pictured removed by me.A)

What if someone in the home was abusing the girls?
I'm not talking about the day they were murdered but previous to that day? What if the girls told the person they were going to 'tell'?
I bring up this scenario because the girls were shot so many times.
I recently read that strangers usually shoot a victim once and run.
Someone known to the victim usually shoots them many times.

90% of children murdered are killed by someone they know.

NOTE: I do not want to bring either family undue harm.
But in this type of murder, unpopular scenarios have to be considered.
(Think the Jon Benet Ramsey case.)

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm basically thinking out loud.
Ocean, you get what I'm saying right? :waitasec:lol
If the POI was facing the woods, the witnesses couldn't have seen his face.
argg I wish there was more confirmed facts.

He evidently was not trying to hide his face just what he was doing. No I dont believe his face was facing the woods.


He was pointed in the right direction but he had gotten over further into the road and wasn't moving. When the guy came up behind him and saw the truck and the OK license plate on the back he slowly passed this guy by using the other side of the road because evidently no one was coming from the other way. He went by him slowly and that is why he got a good look at his face and ponytail imo. This dude may have looked directly into the witnesses eyes when the witness passed by. I think the POI was on the driver's side door area.



imoo

[philamena]

Me too, any you make a good point.

I've wondered too if this POI description isn't wrong, if the person isn't actually hispanic.

CarpeDiem,
Thanks, I'm starting to confuse myself. :waitasec:

Tonight, I have a feeling the description of the perp is all wrong.

[SeriouslySearching]

Except LE has cleared the families already. If there was anything like that going on...I would think they would still be working on that angle to find out. Usually in cases of abuse, there are other signs it is taking place. AND we have a POI that was at the crime scene at the time.

[oceanblueeyes]

Me too, any you make a good point.

I've wondered too if this POI description isn't wrong, if the person isn't actually Hispanic.

Since this county has many Native Americans I would think since they see them all the time they would certainly know the difference. Many times it is the hair and very little facial hair. NA have very straight black hair.

I think the Hispanic population there is very low.

imoo

[philamena]

He evidently was not trying to hide his face just what he was doing. No I dont believe his face was facing the woods.

SNIP
imoo

Thank you Ocean. I get it now.

[cloudajo]

I keep trying to look on Google to see if there is a road, but I can't tell. It looks like it tho.

Yes, I guess you are right. He would have had to be closer to see his eyes etc. Unless they are guessing at the eyes because of his obviously being NA. It was just a thought anyway. :)

Ok, I'm so confused. NoZme posted this earlier and said that Taylor's house was above the red "A" on the left (the clearing). So wouldn't the road south of their house be E1130 Rd, and Bad Creek Bridge is north of the "A." So maybe the pic with the road closed is at the intersection of E1130 and County Line Rd. See timeline map too. So from E1130 looking north to where the girls were found would be more than the 300 yrds/900 ft from the house.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.376 88:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.376 88:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e)

Timeline Map: http://newsok.com/article/3255986

[Reannan]

Gosh, you guys have been busy!!! With Father's Day and a big project I am working on, I haven't had time to check in much. I was hoping to stop by and see an arrest; guess I have that to look forwrad to, huh? Anyway, I still see the sketch POI as being the killer. I believe the girls were walking away from the bridge and back towards their home when his truck came upon them from behind. I believe he did a U-turn right in front of them, and stopped his truck in the position that partially blocked the entire road. I believe he got out of his vehicle and shot them both - rapidly. I believe he was in the process of reloading one or more of his guns when the witness drove by. The witness was smart and intuited that something was amis with this guy, and therefore, did not notice the bodies laying in the ditch. Can you imagine what would have happened to the witness if he/she had stopped and asked if "there was trouble"???

[oceanblueeyes]

http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d495636144212960388d2901a1997023790ab

(I brought this over from the previous thread.)
Pictured above are the grandparents who were raising one of the murdered girls.

What if someone in the home was abusing the girls?
I'm not talking about the day they were murdered but previous to that day? What if the girls told the person they were going to 'tell'?
I bring up this scenario because the girls were shot so many times. I recently read that strangers usually shot once and run.
Someone known to the victim shoots many times.

90% of children murdered are killed by someone they know.


I am going to call it a night. I am not going there philamena. There is absolutely nothing to base any of this on. The police themselves have said they do not believe that the family or friends are involved. There hasnt been one hint of abuse mentioned. Quite the opposite. Taylor was excelling in her short life, making great grades and was known as a sweet and happy girl.

These people may not be pretty and they may not have a lot of money but I bet they loved Taylor with all their hearts and would never have hurt her.

If there is something new that changes that then I will be the first to ponder another theory in this case but until then they are looking for a stranger and consider him a POI. That is the man I hope they find, arrest and take off the streets.

imoo

[philamena]

Except LE has cleared the families already. If there was anything like that going on...I would think they would still be working on that angle to find out. Usually in cases of abuse, there are other signs it is taking place. AND we have a POI that was at the crime scene at the time.

SS,
I'm just throwing things out.
The girls were executed...why did the killer shoot them numerous times?
Why the the face and body? :(

[cloudajo]

According to Brown, there were a "couple of witnesses" who saw the POI and gave descriptions. Either together in same car or separately.

June 14th – NewsOK
Brown described the man authorities want to interview as American Indian, 6 feet tall, with brown eyes and a long black ponytail. She said a couple of witnesses told the OSBI they saw the man near where the girls were found dead. Other witnesses said they heard gunshots but did not report seeing the man or his white truck, Brown said.

http://newsok.com/new-sketch-fuels-hope-in-slayings/article/3257467/ (http://newsok.com/new-sketch-fuels-hope-in-slayings/article/3257467/)

[philamena]

I am going to call it a night. I am not going there philamena. There is absolutely nothing to base any of this on.
SNIP
imoo

Ocean,
There is almost nothing to base any of our thoughts about this case on because the known, confirmed facts are so few and far between.( I'm sorry if I offended you. )

Confirmed facts~
The girls were found murdered.
Off a dirt road.
1/4 mile or less from home.
They were lying in a ditch.
Shot to death.
Shot multiple times.
A few people heard the gunshots.
A few people saw the POI.

[SeriouslySearching]

Wow! Mapquest is SO much clearer than Google. I am going to start using it instead.

[SeriouslySearching]

SS,
I'm just throwing things out.
The girls were executed...why did the killer shoot them numerous times?
Why the the face and body? :(Those are questions only the killer can answer. There is no rhyme or reason for it. Why under the chin, too?

I noticed on NG earlier something about the fingernail clippings. (I didn't catch what it said) I wonder if the girls were in direct contact and fighting them off before being shot? This could explain the DNA that Rosser mentioned they were testing on the girls.

[cloudajo]

Those are questions only the killer can answer. There is no rhyme or reason for it. Why under the chin, too?

I noticed on NG earlier something about the fingernail clippings. (I didn't catch what it said) I wonder if the girls were in direct contact and fighting them off before being shot? This could explain the DNA that Rosser mentioned they were testing on the girls.

I think they said it was one of the things they were going to look at to see if there is any evidence.

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks, Cloud. :)

[philamena]

Those are questions only the killer can answer. There is no rhyme or reason for it. Why under the chin, too?

I noticed on NG earlier something about the fingernail clippings. (I didn't catch what it said) I wonder if the girls were in direct contact and fighting them off before being shot? This could explain the DNA that Rosser mentioned they were testing on the girls.
Oh really? I missed NG.
Let's hope the ME finds DNA under the fingernails.
______________________________________________
Info from earlier Fox News Reports
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365081,00.html


There's obviously an issue here where the shooter wanted these girls dead and certainly carried that to its fullest extent," Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation Inspector Stan Florence (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365081,00.html#) told FOX News.



An autopsy found the girls had died of multiple gunshot wounds to the chest and face, Chief Investigator Kevin Rowland of the Oklahoma Chief Medical Examiner's office told FOXNews.com.
Notice there is no mention of the girls being shot in the legs.


For a year, Taylor had made the quarter-mile walk down the road to the bridge daily as exercise, Placker told FOXNews.com.



In addition to the ballistics tests, police were examining shoe and tire prints, shell casings and any computer correspondence the girls made.

[SeriouslySearching]

Okla. Police Receive 'Hundreds of Leads' in Search for Girls' Killers

Jessica Brown of OSBI said the agency has received "hundreds of leads" after releasing a composite sketch Friday of a man believed to have been in the rural area at the time of the murders.

The possible male witness is described as "part American Indian, part Caucasian," about 35 years old, about 6-feet tall, with black hair and a long ponytail.

"Several people came forward giving us that description," Brown said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,367061,00.html (Bolded by me)

[txsvicki]

I saw a more in depth article quoting Mr. Farrow (Skylar's grandfather) who said that on weekends there are drunks and dopeheads out and about on the roads. This article went further saying that they would be passed out in the middle of the road and they'd have to go around them. Mr. Farrow also said that he'd been robbed three times in the last ten years.

[philamena]

txvicki,
Oh my gosh you're kidding?
Robbed 3 times?! :0
Drunks in the road.
Looks like country living isn't safe in Oklahoma either. :(

[philamena]

http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2008/jun/15/watson-despicable-human/
To some horrible creature, perhaps more than one, Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker were nothing more than target practice.
The two young girls, walking down a country Oklahoma road Sunday afternoon, were gunned down as if they were images in a video game.

[SeriouslySearching]

Benefit Held For Weleetka Murder Victims

About 300 people showed up at Marvin's Place in Henryetta on Sunday for a benefit auction.

They raised more than $7,500.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8494943

[SeriouslySearching]

http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2008/jun/15/watson-despicable-human/
To some horrible creature, perhaps more than one, Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker were nothing more than target practice.
The two young girls, walking down a country Oklahoma road Sunday afternoon, were gunned down as if they were images in a video game.
She was reaching more than we were! Sheesh!

[c2cd208]

Wow you have all been busy, I had to take a break to spend time with DH, B was gone and I took full advantage of spending time with DH. We were working on my video project some more!!!

I am praying that we get some answers in the coming week. Its been one week today and I just feel so sad that we do not know much more now than we did when this happened.

[lisay]

Interesting related story.....
http://www.newsok.com/article/keyword/3256331/

[SeriouslySearching]

I think knowing his face and his truck is significant progress.

[ArizonaGiGi]

I'm basically thinking out loud.
Ocean, you get what I'm saying right? :waitasec:lol
If the POI was facing the woods, the witnesses couldn't have seen his face.
argg I wish there was more confirmed facts.\

Maybe he turned his head and looked at them :confused:

[SeriouslySearching]

I find it interesting what Jessica Brown said today about several people gave his description.

[ArizonaGiGi]

(Pictured removed by me.A)

What if someone in the home was abusing the girls?
I'm not talking about the day they were murdered but previous to that day? What if the girls told the person they were going to 'tell'?
I bring up this scenario because the girls were shot so many times.
I recently read that strangers usually shoot a victim once and run.
Someone known to the victim usually shoots them many times.

90% of children murdered are killed by someone they know.

NOTE: I do not want to bring either family undue harm.
But in this type of murder, unpopular scenarios have to be considered.
(Think the Jon Benet Ramsey case.)

IMO the shooting was to send a message. It was done with so much overkill and passion. One or two bullets each could have easily killed them. 6 bullets each is very personal. This is why I think it wasn't random.

[c2cd208]

I think knowing his face and his truck is significant progress.
O deffinatly so, I was just thinking motive and an arrest.

I am still trying to wake up. I went to sleep early tonight and got woke up so I still need more coffee to get the full picture of where we are with all of this.

[Leila]

Hi everyone, I hope you don't mind me jumping in the discussion. I'm not new to WS, rather new to posting. I pop in here from time to time to read up on certain cases. I've been following these threads for the past few days now.

I do think this is a recap on Nancy Grace, because she has just mentioned the reward being increased to $25,000, which is outdated.

As for the POI, why would he be "blocking" the road as the witnesses have stated? Could he have been serving as a lookout for something going on up the road and/or in the woods which the girls had stumbled on?

Also, I think you are correct in assuming one of Taylor's brothers or sisters is a biological parent. Peter and Vicky Placker look rather young to have a 13 year old granddaughter which leads me to believe that one of their children had Taylor at a very young age and therefore they adopted her as their own daughter. I've seen this scenario several times before, and the bio parent doesn't think of the child as their own, but rather their sibling.

Welcome January! :)

[SeriouslySearching]

If it were for revenge or personal...why didn't someone from the family recognize the sketch?

[ArizonaGiGi]

If it were for revenge or personal...why didn't someone from the family recognize the sketch?

a snip from my post #766


The POI may not have been known to the girls, but was a part of the secret. So he was the hitman in effect. Not worried about being recognized because he wasn't from the area. Maybe the girls were set up by the other persons involved, and waited for the girls at the creek, visited with them like normal, then alerted the POI who was waiting nearby.

[SeriouslySearching]

I guess it is possible, but if there were threats...LE would know.

[Patience]

(Pictured removed by me.A)

What if someone in the home was abusing the girls?
I'm not talking about the day they were murdered but previous to that day? What if the girls told the person they were going to 'tell'?
I bring up this scenario because the girls were shot so many times.
I recently read that strangers usually shoot a victim once and run.
Someone known to the victim usually shoots them many times.

90% of children murdered are killed by someone they know.

NOTE: I do not want to bring either family undue harm.
But in this type of murder, unpopular scenarios have to be considered.
(Think the Jon Benet Ramsey case.)


I also see this as a possible scenerio. I feel that maybe one or both of the girls had been sexually molested and they were going to tell. The person who did the molesting wanted to shut them up, and he certainly did.

Please forgive me for my above comments as I do not want to hurt the family with unfounded allegations but I thought this from the very beginning.

[c2cd208]

Newest Article: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080616_12_A1_hkicke795342

A week after two girls were slain, Weleetka is still struggling with questions.

[poco]

Newest Article: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080616_12_A1_hkicke795342

A week after two girls were slain, Weleetka is still struggling with questions.

Gosh, I sure hope they are able to find the person(s) responsible for this. I don't know what to think anymore - so many possible scenarios. I am still leaning towards the wrong place at the wrong time - they saw something they shouldn't have. Did we ever find out what type of guys they were shot with - and they the usual type of guns that a person who owned or hunted would have ---??

[strach304]

I haven't seen this mentioned or just missed it and it probably isn't significant anyway. But one poster several pages back looked up the temperatures for that day, I believe to see if it was hot enough for air conditioning explaining why the father hadn't heard the gunshots. Looks like it was very hot that day.

In the updated description of the POI they describe his clothes as wearing a hat, long sleeved gray or blue shirt and those boots, probably hiking boots. Don't recall if jeans or pants of some sort were mentioned. The girls in shorts and t-shirts.

Dressed for being in the woods is one thought. Could this mean something? Outer clothing prepared to be tossed from blood? Others?

[cloudajo]

If you listen closely to the Fri 6/13 news conf from about 2:35 on, it sounds like a reporter asks Brown something about how many witnesses saw POI and how many heard gunshots and it sounds like Brown says there were not more than a ½ dozen combined witnesses. And something like when the witnesses heard what happened they put 2 and 2 together and came forward. I think she says they came forward in the past several days.

I know it won’t be released, but I’d like to know more about these witnesses. Who were the witnesses who heard the gunshots and where were they located? Who were the witnesses who saw the POI? Has their story about where they were going when they saw POI checked out? How old are they? Do they have a teenage son(s)?

Also, if we know the girls made it to the bridge and were on their way back, is that because someone saw them at the bridge or spoke to them? Who was/were that/those persons?

Search videos in last 7 days for “Friday OSBI News Conf on Killings”
http://www.koco.com/video/ (http://www.koco.com/video/)

[cloudajo]

Does anyone think the POI story may be bogus/made up?

[strach304]

Cloudjo, I remember one poster bring that up awhile ago and it's a good theory as in the real killers feeding LE false info but LE did say they have verified the witnesses info. or did you mean something else?

[EnvoyDriver61]

Also, if we know the girls made it to the bridge and were on their way back, is that because someone saw them at the bridge or spoke to them? Who was/were that/those persons?


LE believes the girls made the bridge. They haven't released it, but supposedly their tracks go to the bridge and return. They did not have much time at the bridge, if at all, according to the distance and average speed of travel. It looks like they probably walked to the bridge and turned around.

[cloudajo]

Question: Can a person's fingerprints be found on shell casings?

[strach304]

Gosh, I sure hope they are able to find the person(s) responsible for this. I don't know what to think anymore - so many possible scenarios. I am still leaning towards the wrong place at the wrong time - they saw something they shouldn't have. Did we ever find out what type of guys they were shot with - and they the usual type of guns that a person who owned or hunted would have ---??

I am of the same thought as you Poco as to the girls being in the wrong place at the wrong time. They may not even know they saw something. Just the truck was enough.

The guns have been discussed a lot such as rifles and shotguns used for hunting and they do make different sounds. Then something like a 9mm handgun not being used or hunting nor a .22 handgun which both make entirely different shots too.

What I'm interested in knowing is the witnesses that heard the shots, were they in rapid succession or say three shots with a break of 3 to five minutes and then another set of rapid fire equaling many shots.

[Annie]

Does anyone think the POI story may be bogus/made up?

I remember Charles Stuart gave a description of the person who killed his pregnant wife, when he had done it himself. Also Susan Smith gave a description of the person who supposedly kidnapped her children, when she had allowed the car to go into the lake herself with the children in it. A description may be given to take the heat off of the person giving the description and it may be someone who was in the area who had nothing to do with the crime. I just hope they solve it soon. The people with children in the area must be terrified to let their children out of their sight.

[cloudajo]

Cloudjo, I remember one poster bring that up awhile ago and it's a good theory as in the real killers feeding LE false info but LE did say they have verified the witnesses info. or did you mean something else?

Yes, that's what I meant. If LE was suspicious though, would they announce that or just put the sketch out anyway because they only have some suspicions and need more time?

[TGIRecovered]

Does anyone think the POI story may be bogus/made up?

I guess we can't rule out the possibility that the witness with the details about "ponytail man" could be lying for some reason. It does remind me of Susan Smith's detailed perp sketch, which turned out to be totally false.

It is possible that the witness came forward with a POI story in order to divert attention from any questions about why they were in the area at the time, but did not initially report anything amiss.
If the POI is real, I think that he may have taken a few seconds staring down the witness in the car while evaluating his next move. Shooting at an adult in a moving vehicle is riskier than shooting children on the side of the road. He may have already have been in the process of wiping down the guns before ditching them. If he tried had to kill the witness and they were able to drive away, they might have raised the alarm with the cops in time to thwart his getaway.

[cloudajo]

LE believes the girls made the bridge. They haven't released it, but supposedly their tracks go to the bridge and return. They did not have much time at the bridge, if at all, according to the distance and average speed of travel. It looks like they probably walked to the bridge and turned around.

Ok thanks. I know one report said Taylor would walk to bridge for exercise. I wonder if on that day the girls were told to come right back or not be too long. Or maybe it was agreed father/grandfather would call Taylor's cell when Skyla's mom called to come and pick her up.

[strach304]

Question: Can a person's fingerprints be found on shell casings?

Depends on if they touched them. With a shotgun that's loaded one by one it's possible whereas a clip no I don't think so. Someone more experienced can answer since it's too early to wake up my brother. :blushing:

If no one answers though bring it back up and will call and find out.

[cloudajo]

I remember Charles Stuart gave a description of the person who killed his pregnant wife, when he had done it himself. Also Susan Smith gave a description of the person who supposedly kidnapped her children, when she had allowed the car to go into the lake herself with the children in it. A description may be given to take the heat off of the person giving the description and it may be someone who was in the area who had nothing to do with the crime. I just hope they solve it soon. The people with children in the area must be terrified to let their children out of their sight.

Yes, thanks.

[cloudajo]

Depends on if they touched them. With a shotgun that's loaded one by one it's possible whereas a clip no I don't think so. Someone more experienced can answer since it's too early to wake up my brother. :blushing:

If no one answers though bring it back up and will call and find out.

Ok thanks. I was just wondering because if that's possible and it was planned before-hand, a person would be careful to ensure they didn't leave their prints. But if it was unplanned, they may not have been careful.

[strach304]

Yes, that's what I meant. If LE was suspicious though, would they announce that or just put the sketch out anyway because they only have some suspicions and need more time?


The announcement of a POI came before the POI pic and the sketch was said to have come from several witnesses in order to come up with the final draft.

[MeoW333]

Does anyone think the POI story may be bogus/made up?

I've been wondering if the witnesses are in any relation to the boys that had been cleared who shooting at the bridge the same day. Those boys were also in a pickup truck. Yet had been cleared.
Then we also have ATV riders, all of which may not be located?

[Mygirlsadie]

I have been thinking of this story so much the past few days that I had a dream about it last night. I don't even want to say what my dream was because it's disgusting and I don't know why my mind even went there but ughh I just hope they find whoever did this to these two precious angels.

[oceanblueeyes]

I remember Charles Stuart gave a description of the person who killed his pregnant wife, when he had done it himself. Also Susan Smith gave a description of the person who supposedly kidnapped her children, when she had allowed the car to go into the lake herself with the children in it. A description may be given to take the heat off of the person giving the description and it may be someone who was in the area who had nothing to do with the crime. I just hope they solve it soon. The people with children in the area must be terrified to let their children out of their sight.

Good Morning, Annie.

But in those cases they made statements that these "made up people" were the perpetrators of the crime. Chris Pittman also made up his story about a black man kidnapping him.

But the witnesses (I do think it is more than one) here may have no relationship at all with the victims and none of them have said they saw this man doing the crimes...only that he was seen in the crime scene area at the time of the crime, acting suspiciously.

I certainly believe the sketch is legitimate. IMO, OSBI aren't stupid and would not send the public on a wild goose chase based on unreliable information. He may not be known in that area but I do think people are recognizing him from the drawing and are calling the tip line. In fact I think more people will come forward now that they know what he looks like and they too may have seen him in the crime scene area that day either earlier or shortly after.

imo

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

OKLAHOMA CITY
Seven indicted in contraband scheme
Seven alleged members of a motorcycle gang are facing federal charges of selling stolen guns and contraband cigarettes.
Thomas Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON), 63; Wesley George (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Wesley+George&CATEGORY=PERSON), 49; James Oleson (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=James+Oleson&CATEGORY=PERSON), 42; Dennis Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Dennis+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; Smith Justin Beal (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Smith+Justin+Beal&CATEGORY=PERSON), 58; Joe Placker (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Joe+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; and Linda Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Linda+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), age not given, were indicted July 24 by a federal grand jury in Oklahoma City. All of them are members or associates of the Bandidos motorcycle gang (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Bandidos+Motorcycle+Club&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION), the indictment states. They allegedly conspired to sell guns and cigarettes out of Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON)'s Oklahoma City apartment between November 2004 and June 2006, according to court papers.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us)

[Claycat]

I was the one who earlier thought the sketch might have been made from false info. (The artist is very good, btw!) It just seemed like the person giving the description had too many really good details. Think about seeing someone quickly. You usually don't remember too much, unless you are extremely observant like LE who have been trained to look for details.

They had a segment on Oprah once where a guy grabbed a purse, or something like that (see, I can't remember) and ran off. It was outside where the ladies were waiting to get into the show. Very few of the women were able to give accurate details about the perp.

That is the main reason I wondered about the description!

It's baffling, isn't it!

[oceanblueeyes]

OKLAHOMA CITY
Seven indicted in contraband scheme
Seven alleged members of a motorcycle gang are facing federal charges of selling stolen guns and contraband cigarettes.
Thomas Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON), 63; Wesley George (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Wesley+George&CATEGORY=PERSON), 49; James Oleson (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=James+Oleson&CATEGORY=PERSON), 42; Dennis Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Dennis+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; Smith Justin Beal (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Smith+Justin+Beal&CATEGORY=PERSON), 58; Joe Placker (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Joe+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; and Linda Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Linda+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), age not given, were indicted July 24 by a federal grand jury in Oklahoma City. All of them are members or associates of the Bandidos motorcycle gang (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Bandidos+Motorcycle+Club&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION), the indictment states. They allegedly conspired to sell guns and cigarettes out of Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON)'s Oklahoma City apartment between November 2004 and June 2006, according to court papers.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us)

OMG!

I cant get the link to load.

Can you give a short synopsis of what it said?

[Claycat]

OKLAHOMA CITY
Seven indicted in contraband scheme
Seven alleged members of a motorcycle gang are facing federal charges of selling stolen guns and contraband cigarettes.
Thomas Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON), 63; Wesley George (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Wesley+George&CATEGORY=PERSON), 49; James Oleson (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=James+Oleson&CATEGORY=PERSON), 42; Dennis Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Dennis+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; Smith Justin Beal (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Smith+Justin+Beal&CATEGORY=PERSON), 58; Joe Placker (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Joe+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; and Linda Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Linda+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), age not given, were indicted July 24 by a federal grand jury in Oklahoma City. All of them are members or associates of the Bandidos motorcycle gang (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Bandidos+Motorcycle+Club&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION), the indictment states. They allegedly conspired to sell guns and cigarettes out of Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON)'s Oklahoma City apartment between November 2004 and June 2006, according to court papers.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us)


Oh my gosh, maybe that is why the family left OKC!

[oceanblueeyes]

Oh my gosh, maybe that is why the family left OKC!

I wonder if he had turned on them and was going to testify for the Feds and they moved him to this tiny town?

Soooooooo it should be easy though to look at all of these suspects in that case and see if they match the composite drawing though, I would think.

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

Claycat,
That's all the text they have.
I copied and pasted all, and provided a link. You can find it on your own by Googling the following string:
placker site:http://newsok.com

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

Look at the docket search for OK under Joe Placker.
There's info showing spouse, Ann Marie, who has same addy in OKC as....Peter and Vicky/Vickie, and Linda Kaye/Kay
Very interesting.
Looks like protective order for spouse and minor children too. I'm reading all right now.

[Claycat]

Oceanblueeyes (love the name), do you think the police have checked this info?

[rccook555]

Found this poem Linda posted for Taylor on her http://v4mp-b1tch.tripod.com/id16.html page. Not sure when it was written but appears to be some time ago.

My Sister, My Angel
A creature is she, brilliant and bright
confident, stands tall, hidden from fright

A wonder is she, so beautifully made,
talented, skilled, she will never fade

A woman is she, young yet mature
influencing, cheerful, made of great stature

A blessing is she, experienced and true,
has often been hurt, has hurt less than few

An angel is she, in heart and in mind,
her halo is hidden, she's caring and kind

My sister is she, wonderful and bold,
I love her so much, she's a story to be told
Linda kaye placker
To you Taylor I love you

[Claycat]

LOL, PoorPaula, that wasn't me. I found the article.

[Claycat]

Look at the docket search for OK under Joe Placker.
There's info showing spouse, Ann Marie, who has same addy in OKC as....Peter and Vicky/Vickie, and Linda Kaye/Kay
Very interesting.
Looks like protective order for spouse and minor children too. I'm reading all right now.

That's amazing, PoorPaulaNNJ, you may have found the motive!

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

The crime stinks of a hit
But against kids?
But with this article, it makes sense now. Retaliation or maybe supress info from a witness, or intimidate witnesses.

[oceanblueeyes]

Oceanblueeyes (love the name), do you think the police have checked this info?

Oh I am sure they pulled all criminal records on most everyone they interviewed. They probably were right up front with the witnesses..."do you have things in your past that we need to know because we are going to find out anyway" (example)

This sure makes more sense though......they hunted him down.....they would have known Taylor by sight most likely. Oh my this sounds like a bad mafia type movie. It is so hard to comprehend that someone could do this just for retaliation and they would only be out to get him, imo, if he turned on them and either agreed to testify or was a snitch.

Thank you. It has been my hubby's nickname for me for a very long time. I have very dark blue eyes.

imoo

[Claycat]

That's why the grandfather said, "They killed them!" He knew what had happened!

[oceanblueeyes]

That's why the grandfather said, "They killed them!" He knew what had happened!


Could be. We don't know if this is really what happened yet but he may have thought the thugs had found them where they had been trying to hide away from them.

imoo

[DeltaDawn]

This definitely could be a motive.
And if she was in the habit of walking that road daily then anyone who observed the family for a few days would have picked that info up. This seems like a hit to me to keep the family quiet or payback for any info they already gave in the other case.

Now that the reward is up to $37,500 I would think if anyone had more info they would come forward...that's alot of money in that area of the country.

[Claycat]

PoorPaula, here's some other charges for Joe Placker.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp?query=true&srch=0&web=true&db=all&icasetype=&iDATEL=&iDATEH=&iCLOSEDL=&iCLOSEDH=&number=&iLast=Placker&iFirst=Joe&iMiddle=&iID=&iDOBL=&iDOBH=&SearchType=0&iDCPT=&iDCType=0&iYear=&iNumber=&icitation=

[strach304]

I was the one who earlier thought the sketch might have been made from false info. (The artist is very good, btw!) It just seemed like the person giving the description had too many really good details. Think about seeing someone quickly. You usually don't remember too much, unless you are extremely observant like LE who have been trained to look for details.

They had a segment on Oprah once where a guy grabbed a purse, or something like that (see, I can't remember) and ran off. It was outside where the ladies were waiting to get into the show. Very few of the women were able to give accurate details about the perp.

That is the main reason I wondered about the description!

It's baffling, isn't it!


Several of us think there was a male and female couple in the car together because a male would notice more details about the vehicle whereas a woman would notice more about the man.

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

PoorPaula, here's some other charges for Joe Placker.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp?query=true&srch=0&web=true&db=all&icasetype=&iDATEL=&iDATEH=&iCLOSEDL=&iCLOSEDH=&number=&iLast=Placker&iFirst=Joe&iMiddle=&iID=&iDOBL=&iDOBH=&SearchType=0&iDCPT=&iDCType=0&iYear=&iNumber=&icitation=


There's a JR and a SR, both have extensive records. Spooky. Giving me the heebyjeeby all the way over in NJ.

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

Also, plug in Joe Placker on the Oklahoma offender search, and there's a picture for junior. He's incarcerated presently.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=395&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

SR., the one from the article, owns a place called Renegade Ricks in OKC, 2100 SW 65th.
I'm going to see what's up with that.

[Annie]

I was out of town when this happened and didn't have access to a computer or TV, so this may have already be posted somewhere. This is a memorial to Taylor. It is beautiful. In two of the pictures she looks so much like one of my granddaughters at that age. It brought tears to my eyes to think that someone could harm this beautiful little girl like this, much less two beautiful little girls.

http://www.shurdenfuneralhome.com/TaylorPlackerVideo.html

[Claycat]

Also, plug in Joe Placker on the Oklahoma offender search, and there's a picture for junior. He's incarcerated presently.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=395&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30

I think you are totally on to something here! You are a good sleuth!

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

oops, nevermind

[DeltaDawn]

Could the grand daughter be the daughter of Joe Jr?

[Patience]

OKLAHOMA CITY
Seven indicted in contraband scheme
Seven alleged members of a motorcycle gang are facing federal charges of selling stolen guns and contraband cigarettes.
Thomas Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON), 63; Wesley George (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Wesley+George&CATEGORY=PERSON), 49; James Oleson (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=James+Oleson&CATEGORY=PERSON), 42; Dennis Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Dennis+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; Smith Justin Beal (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Smith+Justin+Beal&CATEGORY=PERSON), 58; Joe Placker (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Joe+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; and Linda Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Linda+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), age not given, were indicted July 24 by a federal grand jury in Oklahoma City. All of them are members or associates of the Bandidos motorcycle gang (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Bandidos+Motorcycle+Club&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION), the indictment states. They allegedly conspired to sell guns and cigarettes out of Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON)'s Oklahoma City apartment between November 2004 and June 2006, according to court papers.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us)


OMG! This is just so terrible. I am horrified at the new info coming out but you websleuthers are brilliant.

[Claycat]

I was out of town when this happened and didn't have access to a computer or TV, so this may have already be posted somewhere. This is a memorial to Taylor. It is beautiful. In two of the pictures she looks so much like one of my granddaughters at that age. It brought tears to my eyes to think that someone could harm this beautiful little girl like this, much less two beautiful little girls.

http://www.shurdenfuneralhome.com/TaylorPlackerVideo.html

Thanks, Annie! I watched about half of it and began to sob!

[Claycat]

Could the grand daughter be the daughter of Joe Jr?

She looks like him, doesn't she!

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

I think you are totally on to something here! You are a good sleuth!

Thanks

[Busylady]

This is a picture of Smith Justin Beal from 2000

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=94817&offender_book_id=6304

[Claycat]

Paula, they must know we are accessing the photo. I went back to look again, and it said no offender found by that name!

:confused:

Never mind, it must have been a glitch. Here is a link to the photo. He looks like Taylor, doesn't he!


http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=530544&offender_book_id=315025

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

No. FD-1999-1012
(Family and Domestic:
Case Filing: CIVIL PATERNITY - STATE (D.H.S.))

Filed: 02/18/1999
Closed: 09/20/1999

Paternity against Joe Jr.

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

Paula, they must know we are accessing the photo. I went back to look again, and it said no offender found by that name!

:confused:


Really?
I've still got it open, so I'll grab screenshots.

[SuziQ]

Paula, I know we aren't supposed to swear on here. However...Holy ****!

[Claycat]

Really?
I've still got it open, so I'll grab screenshots.

It was a glitch. I accessed it again.

[DeltaDawn]

Yes I think they look alike that's why I thought maybe Joe Jr was her Dad, but she lives with her grandparents who have probably raised her.

Joe Jr has quite the rap sheet under civil cases as well as the selling guns charges. It looks like he has been busy.

[oceanblueeyes]

Well imo if they were hunting them down they thought he was a snitch and that he had either agreed to testify for the Feds. That is why they would retaliate.

Joe had to be screaming his head off to the police immediately that these ba*tards had found them and had murdered Taylor and Skyla to send a message. It is so hard to infiltrate these gangs though or to get them to talk. I now believe if this guy is a gang member sent to do the dirty work then they are hiding him out.

Oh my goodness this is just so ruthless. To kill anyone is just horrible but to know they will even do that to innocent children is just unfathomable to me.

They may have been placed in the witness protection plan. Now I understand why their home was in such a remote area and very hard to find.

imoo

[Claycat]

No. FD-1999-1012
(Family and Domestic:
Case Filing: CIVIL PATERNITY - STATE (D.H.S.))

Filed: 02/18/1999
Closed: 09/20/1999

Paternity against Joe Jr.

This may have been filed to get child support for Taylor!

[Claycat]

I agree, Oceanblueeyes, but I think they would have changed their name if they had been under protection.

This is so sad! Poor kids! Taylor could have been targeted, and Skyla was just there because she was her friend.

[Busylady]

This is a great find but I can't figure out how we tie Joe Placker Sr to Taylor Plackers grandfather Peter Steven Placker? We have no way of knowing of Joe Placker is any relationship to Peter Placker unless I am missing something.

[SuziQ]

Witness retaliation is a big problem and some DA's are admitting that it's out of control. There was recently a case in GA. where two kids were shot in their own bedroom because their mother was set to testify in a case. A few weeks ago in Colorado a man was convicted for gunning down witnesses in their car on a busy street. A man in Los Angeles was burned alive at a convenience store for being a witness. The hitmen poured gas on him and lit him up. I could go on and on. Witness protection is not offered and not an option for most witnesses.

IMO, the Placker family has some scary connections that can no longer be ignored. I'm sure LE knows all about this and is working this angle. They just need to figure out who's responsible.

[oceanblueeyes]

This is a great find but I can't figure out how we tie Joe Placker Sr to Taylor Plackers grandfather Peter Steven Placker? We have no way of knowing of Joe Placker is any relationship to Peter Placker unless I am missing something.

Maybe I need to slow down to read and think more clearly. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.


Didnt it give the age of Joe Placker as 54 in the article about the gun charges?:confused:

How old is Taylor's grandfather? Do we know his DOB?

imoo

[Claycat]

Look at the docket search for OK under Joe Placker.
There's info showing spouse, Ann Marie, who has same addy in OKC as....Peter and Vicky/Vickie, and Linda Kaye/Kay
Very interesting.
Looks like protective order for spouse and minor children too. I'm reading all right now.


BusyLady, PoorPaula posted this earlier. The address is the same. That is probably the connection.

[FlowerChild]

As I said earlier, I never thought this was a hit on Taylor specifically, she was just convenient - and alone. IMO, It was intended to hurt her GRANDPARENTS or someone in the family - and the WAY it was done was to send a message to them. I still do not think the girls were the intended target, they were just "handy" - and I do not think the perp knew specifically WHICH girl was Taylor or even that there was a Taylor - all he knew was that the girls he was killing came out of the Placker house.

IF the Placker family was involved with the Bandidos, and then somehow betrayed them (at least in the eyes of the Bandidos) THAT is the key to this crime. IF this was a hit by them or an associate the POI was probably NOT from the area and LE will have to look long and far (nationally) to find him. And the truck is not his either - probably stolen and was in a chop shop in pieces by Monday or is now a different color and looks totally different and is in Kansas or Texas or even further and the POI is now on a bike and is in AZ or NM or somewhere where he is NOT standing out. It has now been a week and if the POI was "hired" or a part of the Bandidos he is in deep hiding or is far away from OK. And being supported by the gang. Unless one of the insiders talks, the POI is not gonna get found or ID'd without a national effort - and a MUCH bigger reward. A bigger reward because crossing those guys is obviously pretty dangerous and this precise crime PROVES it. All they have to say now is, "we never forget, if you betray us we'll make you pay - you see what happens to people who cross us".

IMO, This was a "hit" and innocent children paid. Those "kill shots" give it away - the person who killed them is a cold, calculating "pro" and could care less if people saw him. He isn't connected in any way to ANY of them and knew within hours he would be far away. And THAT is why the Placker family was shielded by a biker group when they left the funeral so as not to be on video and why the OSBI waited until the funerals were over to release the sketch and why the familes have NOT been on TV. They are HIDING and I betcha the Placker family either has a cop living with them or they are GONE. I think within a week the Plackers will all be somewhere else - hopefully with a new name. As soon as they are, there will be "more developments" and more info from OSBI.

My Opinion

[Busylady]

Thank you, I guess thats what I am missing I went through all the addresses and could not come up with a match. Paula could you post the link that shows the same address. Thank you so much.

BusyLady, PoorPaula posted this earlier. The address is the same. That is probably the connection.

[Busylady]

Also another name to look at is Jessie Carl Paschal as being Taylors father. It would explain the Paschal-Placker combination name. Jessie is listed as a brother on the obit. DOB is 1/23/1977
http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/getpartyrecord.asp?partynamesid=10193006

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

Thank you, I guess thats what I am missing I went through all the addresses and could not come up with a match. Paula could you post the link that shows the same address. Thank you so much.

I'm working on it. I've got tons open and copied and in the middle of reading and making more connections.

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

Also another name to look at is Jessie Carl Paschal as being Taylors father. It would explain the Paschal-Placker combination name. Jessie is listed as a brother on the obit. DOB is 1/23/1977
http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/getpartyrecord.asp?partynamesid=10193006

Busy,
A while back I had found this, but couldn't link it with them. http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/03/05/031124U.pdf

[lizzybeth]

Couldn't the motorcycle club members have been from the Patriot Guard? I know sometimes when that "crazy church" threatens that they are going to attend a funeral the Patriot Guard shows up to protect and shield the families.

I apologize if it's already been determined what motorcylce club was there and it wasn't the Patriot Guard. I've been trying to keep up.

[SeriouslySearching]

IMO, This was a "hit" and innocent children paid. Those "kill shots" give it away - the person who killed them is a cold, calculating "pro" and could care less if people saw him. He isn't connected in any way to ANY of them and knew within hours he would be far away. And THAT is why the Placker family was shielded by a biker group when they left the funeral so as not to be on video and why the OSBI waited until the funerals were over to release the sketch and why the familes have NOT been on TV. They are HIDING and I betcha the Placker family either has a cop living with them or they are GONE. I think within a week the Plackers will all be somewhere else - hopefully with a new name. As soon as they are, there will be "more developments" and more info from OSBI.

My OpinionFirst...the reason BACA was at the funerals is because they attend EVERY funeral in Oklahoma when the Phelps' family threatens to attend. I personally know the people at the top of BACA's Chapter. One is a CPA. BACA stands for Bikers Against Child Abuse. The group's main focus is to protect abused children. They will immediately go to the child's home, give the child a photo of the group, a teddy bear, and then they will literally post a "guard" outside of the child's home 24/7 until the child goes to court. Then they will escort the child and family during the court process. This is done to give the child a real sense of security and help the fear the perp will retalliate. They are NOT associates of a gang. Most are bankers, lawyers, and other professional people. They were there out of the kindness of their hearts to shield the families from outrageous behaviors and I applaud them.

http://www.bacausa.com/

http://www.bacausa.com/Internet/Testimonials.aspx

I knew about Joe Jr., but LE has emphatically stated they have cleared the family. This means they are well aware of circumstances and associates of the family. We already knew that Peter and Vicky had Biker names mentioned on one of the websites. Granted, the Bandidos could have a connection to this...but right now we have a POI. It would have made more sense for the POI to have been on a bike to do this. It is easier to hide, his face could be completely covered by a helmet, and the getaway would have been quicker, imo. There are many reasons I do not believe the two are associated.

[SieSie]

Yes, that's what I meant. If LE was suspicious though, would they announce that or just put the sketch out anyway because they only have some suspicions and need more time?
Wow, excellent thoughts. It makes me wonder even more now because they haven't narrowed down the type of truck (Ford, Chevy?) - that should be easy enough to do by showing the witnesses different pictures. :waitasec:

[SeriouslySearching]

The sketch was a result of "several" people coming forward. This would mean others saw him on the road or in the area before or afterwards. I do not think someone made him up nor do I think that people are mistaken about him being NA. If it had only been one person it could be possible, but it was not according to LE.

[TGIRecovered]

You make some good points, SS, but I still wonder if a hard-core biker who really loved his bike wouldn't choose to use a different "disposable" vehicle for a hit.

If it was a biker, could he have driven the truck with the bike in the back to the deserted road, then hidden the bike nearby for a quick getaway after he ditched the truck?

Being a biker would explain the jeans and heavy boots in hot weather.

Susan

[SuziQ]

I'm not sure the Bandido's have anything to do with this. But the case involving them puts an exclamation mark on the bad deal connections in the Placker family. The rap sheets in this family are long. How many convictions were plead down in exchange for information? How many charges were never filed in exchange for information? The possibilities are endless. How many debts financial and otherwise were never settled?

IMO, the fact that LE has cleared the family means they've been cleared of pulling the trigger themselves. It doesn't mean they weren't a target of someone outside the family.

ETA: I think that Taylors grandparents fled violence in OK City alright. Violence and trouble in their own family and the associates of that family. God bless them, they tried.

[FlowerChild]

There are many reasons I think this was a "hit" - not the least of which is the manner in which the girls were killed.

The killer would NOT necessarily have have come on a bike - because that would ID him as a "biker" - and immediately alert the family and OSBI to the Bandidos connection.

We don't know that the killer didn't come on a bike, just that the POI didn't. Plus, the killer or POI may NOT be a biker, he may just be an "associate".

The Bandidos have been bad news for a long long time, they are not a "nice" bunch of people and are into criminal commerce, drugs, guns, theft, prostitution etc. They are an old style "biker gang" - they were around when I was in High School.

I think the connection is pretty clear here, at least some of the Placker family was somehow connected to the Bandidos. If any one of the family did ANYTHING to really P-off those guys this very definitely could have been the result. The Plackers do not have to be bad people or involved - NOTHING they did could have warranted the killing of two innocent girls. The OSBI did clear the family (meaning NONE of them KILLED the girls) but that does NOT mean that someone else didn't kill the girls to HURT the family and send them a message. The family can hardly change who they are or who they may know (or have known) or who their kids got involved with that were bad news. NONE of that makes the Placker family at fault in this murder - BUT it could be the MOTIVE for someone to kill these girls 300 yards from home execution style.

IMO the ONLY reason for someone to take so much time, and use TWO guns and end the act with two carefully placed execution style shots - after the girls were probably already dead, was to send a message to SOMEONE. A retaliation, a pay back, a shut-up, a vendetta - the killing was, IMO, a MESSAGE to someone.

And it is borne out by the absence of the families in the media, the way Taylor's funeral was handled, the fact that there was NOT ONE SINGLE "family" photo in her memorial video or anywhere - every photo of Taylor shown was taken at school and her family (GP's even) are nowhere to be seen. Not ONE PHOTO shown of Taylor and her siblings, her GP's or ANY FAMILY! There is also the way even the POI information was released. It just appears the Placker family is hiding from something (or someone) for a reason. Not because they are guilty, but because they are (justifiably) scared that the crazy who killed the girls will strike again. The killer has already shown he doesn't care WHO he kills, so long as he completes his "job".

To me, there are so many things here that add up to the Bandidos and a "hit".

My Opinion

[SeriouslySearching]

LE would be absolutely aware of their situation. If they find any leads or ties to the Bandidos...you know they are actively pursuing them.

[evelyn24]

I agree, Oceanblueeyes, but I think they would have changed their name if they had been under protection.

This is so sad! Poor kids! Taylor could have been targeted, and Skyla was just there because she was her friend.

Definitely would have changed their name if in the witness protection program, and most likely moved them out of the state.

[becklynn]

Being a biker would explain the jeans and heavy boots in hot weather.

Susan

Great point.

[tiredblondy]

IMO, the fact that LE has cleared the family means they've been cleared of pulling the trigger themselves. It doesn't mean they weren't a target of someone outside the family.
ETA: I think that Taylors grandparents fled violence in OK City alright. Violence and trouble in their own family and the associates of that family. God bless them, they tried.[/quote]

Well said... I think it is the only reason I could wrap my mind around such a sensless act. Mark Furman said it was someone who had done this before and was a cold blooded killer. It may not be retribution or retaliation but it certainly looks like that to me. jmo

[tiredblondy]

LE would be absolutely aware of their situation. If they find any leads or ties to the Bandidos...you know they are actively pursuing them.


and I would suspect if they are they did not want this to be made public

[SuziQ]

LE would be absolutely aware of their situation. If they find any leads or ties to the Bandidos...you know they are actively pursuing them.

I would bet on it.

[SuziQ]

and I would suspect if they are they did not want this to be made public

The family was cleared awfully quick IMO. That could be because the family was able to give a dang good motive right away. Not that they know exactly who or exactly why. Hopefully they do though.

[evelyn24]

I'm confused. Is this Joe Placker Jr who was in the motorcycle gang any relation to Taylor? Did the trial already happen, and how do we know he was going to turn on the others in the gang?

[SeriouslySearching]

You make some good points, SS, but I still wonder if a hard-core biker who really loved his bike wouldn't choose to use a different "disposable" vehicle for a hit.

If it was a biker, could he have driven the truck with the bike in the back to the deserted road, then hidden the bike nearby for a quick getaway after he ditched the truck?

Being a biker would explain the jeans and heavy boots in hot weather.

SusanWith the searches they did with the helicopters and planes..they would have spotted a white truck dumped in the area. The people who saw the POI can say one way or the other if he was driving the truck and had a motorcycle in the back of it. Also, there would be tire tracks from a bike. If they suspected it, they would have released that information for people to be on the lookout for him on a bike.

Yes, being a biker would account for the choice of clothing, but so would several other reasons mentioned here. For instance, being in the woods.

I am not saying it isn't possible, but I don't think we can jump to any conclusions either.

I am well aware of motorcycle gangs in this area. Outlaws, Bandidos, Mongols, etc. and they can be ruthless without a doubt. I also know they do plea bargains to obtain information on them as in the case of the guy that raped the 11yo girl while her mother held a pillow over her face. She got life in prison and he got 6 years. I am still burned over that one! :furious: I should mention the little girl he raped was the daughter of a rival gang member and when he is out...he is going to have limited time until they catch up with him, imo.

[MsBashterd]

Hello to everyone first my I say I am a looooong time lurker, this case has brought me out of my shell. I am in awe of this forum it is one of my favorites all of you folks are incredible in your sleuthing skills and your class and integrity and treatment of victims their family's and of each other. With that said I am happy to have finally joined you all.

I have been reading these threads since the beginning of this horrible tragedy. I don't believe their are words available to me in the English language to express the utter sorrow and pain I feel for these innocent babies and their family's. These beautiful children have been the last thing I have thought about before I fall asleep at night and the first thing I think about when I wake up for the last week. I pray for an end to this horror and for an answer for why, why WHY.

The last several pages I have raised my eyebrow up at the Motorcycle Gangs reference. Made me step back and truly think about it and scratch my noggin for awhile. A direction and connection that truly needs to be taken seriously. As the ex-wife of a enforcer for the Son of Silence I was witness to things 15 years later that I will never talk about. They do have their own set of laws and codes for life and death for loyalty and disobedience. The one thing I feel that they would never do and a place they do not go to is hurting children, especially in this horrible and heinous way. No matter what injustice they have felt was brought on them. They usually have the power and connections to definitely find their prime target and take care of it as they feel necessary. Just my thoughts from a stand point of having been in that life somewhat.

I have been reading everyones thoughts and ideas and considering them all. To me it almost feels like something a mountain man (for lack of a better analogy) almost like a war time sniper taking down the enemy. For lack of a better words that is the only thing I can compare it to. For kids out joy shooting or even drug dealers to do this and the amount of psychotic overkill that was involved makes me think that they would have shoot and ran and not taken the time to finish the job. They would have been in a panic and freaking out. The methodical assassination of these babies feels so much like something that a crazy survivalist would do if they perceived an injustice to their person occurred. Maybe the girls stumbled on him or them the shots and kill shoot seems so exact and precise bring them down finish them off. Get in get out before the enemy finds you type of mentality. When I heard of the helicopter scouting around the area I was so hoping that was what they were looking for so praying that they would find them. But someone of that type would have pulled up and disappeared, but for the peace and justice of these girls and their family's I pray that that isn't the case.

Thank you so much for letting me babble a little here I really needed to express myself and try and get some of the pain and utter horror I feel off my chest :blowkiss:.

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, MsB! I appreciate your insight into the biker realm and you do bring up some valid points. Most bikers I am familiar with do hold children in high esteem while they wouldn't have a problem wacking their father for going against their code. It is something to think about.

The mentality of a survivalist type as you mentioned could be another possibility. We can look at Garry Hilton and how he lived, killed, and avoided capture for so long. He showed no mercy either.

This could be some crackhead who is delusional and paranoid with some false idea the girls were out to get him. His reaction might be the same...deliberate and brutal.

[poco]

Hi MsB. Thanks for your post. I must agree with you - even the hardest of criminals do have their code of ethics.......

[tiredblondy]

welcome MsB

[Claycat]

Good points, MsBashterd! Welcome!

I do know there are motorcyclists here in Texas who have a charity for children, so you have a valid point about them not going after kids.

I read a little about the Bandidos. They are the second largest motorcycle gang in the world, next to the Hell's Angels.

[oceanblueeyes]

There are many reasons I think this was a "hit" - not the least of which is the manner in which the girls were killed.

The killer would NOT necessarily have have come on a bike - because that would ID him as a "biker" - and immediately alert the family and OSBI to the Bandidos connection.

We don't know that the killer didn't come on a bike, just that the POI didn't. Plus, the killer or POI may NOT be a biker, he may just be an "associate".

The Bandidos have been bad news for a long long time, they are not a "nice" bunch of people and are into criminal commerce, drugs, guns, theft, prostitution etc. They are an old style "biker gang" - they were around when I was in High School.

I think the connection is pretty clear here, at least some of the Placker family was somehow connected to the Bandidos. If any one of the family did ANYTHING to really P-off those guys this very definitely could have been the result. The Plackers do not have to be bad people or involved - NOTHING they did could have warranted the killing of two innocent girls. The OSBI did clear the family (meaning NONE of them KILLED the girls) but that does NOT mean that someone else didn't kill the girls to HURT the family and send them a message. The family can hardly change who they are or who they may know (or have known) or who their kids got involved with that were bad news. NONE of that makes the Placker family at fault in this murder - BUT it could be the MOTIVE for someone to kill these girls 300 yards from home execution style.

IMO the ONLY reason for someone to take so much time, and use TWO guns and end the act with two carefully placed execution style shots - after the girls were probably already dead, was to send a message to SOMEONE. A retaliation, a pay back, a shut-up, a vendetta - the killing was, IMO, a MESSAGE to someone.

And it is borne out by the absence of the families in the media, the way Taylor's funeral was handled, the fact that there was NOT ONE SINGLE "family" photo in her memorial video or anywhere - every photo of Taylor shown was taken at school and her family (GP's even) are nowhere to be seen. Not ONE PHOTO shown of Taylor and her siblings, her GP's or ANY FAMILY! There is also the way even the POI information was released. It just appears the Placker family is hiding from something (or someone) for a reason. Not because they are guilty, but because they are (justifiably) scared that the crazy who killed the girls will strike again. The killer has already shown he doesn't care WHO he kills, so long as he completes his "job".

To me, there are so many things here that add up to the Bandidos and a "hit".

My Opinion

I saw a photo of Taylor standing there with her mom and dad and it looked like her uncle Joe Mosher on the other side. It seemed to be several people in a group when the photo was taken. The Reverend who officiated Taylor's funeral said he just realized he was kin to Taylor when he went to a family reunion shortly before her death. So the Plackers must have been there too.

So the Joe Placker that has the Federal gun charges is 54 years old, so the article said. Is he Peter Placker's own brother and if so I wonder if he could have ordered the hit if there was one. Maybe Peter cooperated with the Feds and told them what he knew.

He would know that Taylor was everything to Peter and Vicky......so by murdering her it would be the worst of all. I am beginning to think if this was a retaliation hit and poor Skyla was at the wrong place at the wrong time and was killed because the hit man couldn't leave any witnesses.

[evelyn24]

Again, was Peter Placker ever involved with this motorcycle gang? Is the Joe Placker
(54) in the story any relation at all to Taylor?

[tiredblondy]

Also wasn't Taylor homeschooled last year before moving here?

[SeriouslySearching]

If the perp is associated with a biker gang, it will be difficult to track him down. They would protect him without a doubt. It is very troubling to even consider it a possibility.

However, I am not ready to go there yet until we get more information which would point in that direction.

[Garnan]

I am in Tulsa so I live about 70 miles from there.

Me to.

[Garnan]

I understand what people are saying about Taylor's parentage but I think the lying should stop at the grave.

When you lie about stuff like this you do it because you are ashamed of the situation. Which translates to being ashamed of the kid. Taylor deserved an honest obituary. It should have been the least the adults in the family could have done for her. Obituaries can be a very imporant historical record.

The name I post under, Albert, comes from my great uncle who died during the influenza pandemic in 1918. He was 18 years old when he died. I feel a great connection to him and earlier this year I traveled to visit his grave. I know almost nothing about him and have only two small pictures of him. Back in the 1970's my grandmother, his sister, wrote a short family history and didn't even mention his name.

So how do we know there won't be somebody in 50 or 100 years who wonders if they are connected to Taylor. Someone who is born long after most or all of us are dead. That person shouldn't have to overcome a bunch of roadblocks because adults of the day couldn't face the truth.

Man, that's cold. It doesn't say to me that they were ashamed, but that things would be easier for the child giving birth, and the baby being born. Every family has secrets. It's not up to the rest of us to decided which ones and at what time those secrets should be told. Probably everybody in the family knows the exact situation, and now LE as well. As the for rest of us, it's really none of our business.

[MsBashterd]

Thaxs so much for the welcome guy's. After reading your post's for a long time in the shadows I almost feel like I know you folks :).

The hardcore biker gangs do actually have their codes and are very strict about what is acceptable and unacceptable. As twisted as their codes are, children are strictly off limits to harm and retaliation as much as I have seen and herd of. If this was done in retaliation or for the silence factor I have to imagine whomever they were have gone totally underground and are most probably in fear for their lives. I would suspect that they would truly want LE to get a hold of them first before their brother-en find them. What LE would do to them would be a godsend compared to what would happen if their brothers in colors found them first.

However a hit is a whole nother ballgame here, I just am a little skeptical about a hit being put out on the granddaughter/daughter. But boy it does having me giving it serious consideration. With the circumstances surrounding this tragedy I don't think anything should be ruled out or not considered.

[SeriouslySearching]

Well...we can only hope that other bad@ssed bikers are looking for the person/people who did this! LE needs all the help they can get on this case.

[tiredblondy]

Well...we can only hope that other bad@ssed bikers are looking for the person/people who did this! LE needs all the help they can get on this case.

well said I agree

[nanandjim]

(Pictured removed by me.A)

What if someone in the home was abusing the girls?
I'm not talking about the day they were murdered but previous to that day? What if the girls told the person they were going to 'tell'?
I bring up this scenario because the girls were shot so many times.
I recently read that strangers usually shoot a victim once and run.
Someone known to the victim usually shoots them many times.

90% of children murdered are killed by someone they know.

NOTE: I do not want to bring either family undue harm.
But in this type of murder, unpopular scenarios have to be considered.
(Think the Jon Benet Ramsey case.)
philamena - I have been thinking this from the beginning. Was an autopsy performed on the girls?

[MsBashterd]

Well...we can only hope that other bad@ssed bikers are looking for the person/people who did this! LE needs all the help they can get on this case.

+1 I have to think for once I would be cheering them on :clap:.

One of the rare times I say vigilante justice is absolutely called for!!!!! :bang:

[CarpeDiem]

Thaxs so much for the welcome guy's. After reading your post's for a long time in the shadows I almost feel like I know you folks :).

The hardcore biker gangs do actually have their codes and are very strict about what is acceptable and unacceptable. As twisted as their codes are, children are strictly off limits to harm and retaliation as much as I have seen and herd of. If this was done in retaliation or for the silence factor I have to imagine whomever they were have gone totally underground and are most probably in fear for their lives. I would suspect that they would truly want LE to get a hold of them first before their brother-en find them. What LE would do to them would be a godsend compared to what would happen if their brothers in colors found them first.

However a hit is a whole nother ballgame here, I just am a little skeptical about a hit being put out on the granddaughter/daughter. But boy it does having me giving it serious consideration. With the circumstances surrounding this tragedy I don't think anything should be ruled out or not considered.

I've appreciated you're perspective on this. True I think about wanting LE to get them before their "brothers" do:


Q: You talk a lot about the Bandidos' brotherhood and what it takes to be a member, and yet you acknowledge that some members were not up to par. You write that one club member was "incapable of taking a dog for a walk, much less controlling a Bandidos chapter." How much does character and intelligence count toward club membership?

A: You end up taking in a few people — their agenda is about themselves; it's not about being part of a brotherhood. Those are people who have to have the patch