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View Full Version : Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #4



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SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 10:20 PM
Thread 1: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65845
Thread 2: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66012
Thread 3: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66072

POI:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/SeriouslySearching/POI1.jpg

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366464,00.html

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 10:29 PM
Nancy Grace is covering it right now. according to the police they do believe that there were two shooters! Skyler's grandmother is on,she says the police are trying hard to find the killers. As of now they have no suspects and no idea why this happened. The police believe that the suspects are local,I thought NG weekend was only a recap of the week's stories and not live. Am I mistaken? This was done before they had a POI and the descriptions of the vehicle etc.

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 10:31 PM
Wasn't there conflicting reports as to which end of the truck was toward the ditch? Couldn't the front of the truck have had a non-official tag on referring to the state of OK in some way?First, Welcome to WS, Westbender! We only have plates on the back of a vehicle here. If they saw an Oklahoma license plate, it would mean the truck had to be in the road with the back facing the witnesses instead of the crime scene.

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 10:35 PM
I thought NG weekend was only a recap of the week's stories and not live. Am I mistaken? This was done before they had a POI and the descriptions of the vehicle etc.

So this one tonight did not show the composite drawing?

imoo

January.
06-15-2008, 10:36 PM
Hi everyone, I hope you don't mind me jumping in the discussion. I'm not new to WS, rather new to posting. I pop in here from time to time to read up on certain cases. I've been following these threads for the past few days now.

I do think this is a recap on Nancy Grace, because she has just mentioned the reward being increased to $25,000, which is outdated.

As for the POI, why would he be "blocking" the road as the witnesses have stated? Could he have been serving as a lookout for something going on up the road and/or in the woods which the girls had stumbled on?

Also, I think you are correct in assuming one of Taylor's brothers or sisters is a biological parent. Peter and Vicky Placker look rather young to have a 13 year old granddaughter which leads me to believe that one of their children had Taylor at a very young age and therefore they adopted her as their own daughter. I've seen this scenario several times before, and the bio parent doesn't think of the child as their own, but rather their sibling.

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 10:39 PM
Nancy Grace is a rerun. Sorry. When you don't see her phone number listed on the right lower corner...it is a rerun. I already saw the piece with Mark Klaas discussing raising the rewards in increments.

kahskye
06-15-2008, 10:40 PM
I have to agree w/ what JBean said in a previous post.

I have seen reports that refer to the grandparents as the bio grandparents. If that is accurate, we know it is the child of one of the kids.
My suspicion is that perhaps she is the product of 2 step siblings
One Placker one Paschal and it is just not a topic open for discussion in their eyes. I would think in their opinion, it is no one's business and she has been raised by the grandparents.
JMHO of course!

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 10:43 PM
Welcome to posting, January! Look forward to hearing more of your thoughts! :)

He could have been a lookout. He also could have been using the truck to shield himself from the crossroad while shooting the girls, too. I theorize that he had already shot the girls and was getting into his truck to leave. He was obviously shaken by being seen as they said he acted "suspiciously".

evelyn24
06-15-2008, 10:43 PM
I thought this is what Skyla's grandmother said that he told her daughter when he rushed to hold her back when she came up the road toward the crime scene?

What did Skyla's mom say he said?

I would think it would be hard to process all of that information and remember verbatim. I would be in such shock that I am not even sure I could hear people even around me talking.

imoo

Right.
Skyla's grandmother mentioned that Taylor's grandfather said, 'They killed the girls', to Skyla's mom. People seem to think this is an odd choice of words.
I said that we have no idea if that is exactly what Taylor's dad (grandfather) said to Skyla's mom, because Skyla's mom could have been paraphrasing when retelling the story, or it's possible she incorrectly heard him.
I don't want to over analyzing the wording supposedly used by Taylor's dad (grandfather) when we really don't know exactly what he said.

Snowlover77
06-15-2008, 10:43 PM
Seriously Searching, How far do you live form where these murders happened?

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 10:44 PM
So this one tonight did not show the composite drawing?

imooNo, it didn't.

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 10:44 PM
Hi everyone, I hope you don't mind me jumping in the discussion. I'm not new to WS, rather new to posting. I pop in here from time to time to read up on certain cases. I've been following these threads for the past few days now.

I do think this is a recap on Nancy Grace, because she has just mentioned the reward being increased to $25,000, which is outdated.

As for the POI, why would he be "blocking" the road as the witnesses have stated? Could he have been serving as a lookout for something going on up the road and/or in the woods which the girls had stumbled on?

Also, I think you are correct in assuming one of Taylor's brothers or sisters is a biological parent. Peter and Vicky Placker look rather young to have a 13 year old granddaughter which leads me to believe that one of their children had Taylor at a very young age and therefore they adopted her as their own daughter. I've seen this scenario several times before, and the bio parent doesn't think of the child as their own, but rather their sibling.

Welcome January!

Here is my take on it and nothing more.

I think this witness was heading in the same direction as the POI. He was not actually blocking the road but he was "sort of or kinda" blocking this witnesses path. I think he was far enough out in the road maybe half the width of his truck and that made the witness have to swing out around him and make sure there was no oncoming traffic before they did.

Of course until this case is solved we really wont know if there was one or two involved. Since no one has come forward saying that they saw another stranger that day then IMOO this guy is IT.

I think he was up ahead of them closer to Taylor's home and was laying in wait for them to approach.

I agree. I think the bio parents of Taylor is a non issue.

JMO tho.

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 10:45 PM
Seriously Searching, How far do you live form where these murders happened?I am in Tulsa so I live about 70 miles from there.

evelyn24
06-15-2008, 10:45 PM
Nancy Grace is a rerun. Sorry. When you don't see her phone number listed on the right lower corner...it is a rerun. I already saw the piece with Mark Klaas discussing raising the rewards in increments.

Yup, it's a repeat.

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 10:47 PM
No, it didn't.


Thanks. I still cant believe that AMW didn't get that sketch out there last night. I was shocked. Even if they air it again next week they have wasted an entire week.

imoo

txsvicki
06-15-2008, 10:59 PM
It was said somewhere that the truck was almost perpendicular to the road.

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 11:00 PM
Yes, that is what OSBI Jessica Brown said. I was looking for the quote.

Snowlover77
06-15-2008, 11:01 PM
I am in Tulsa so I live about 70 miles from there.

Ok..my sister lives in Idabel, Oklahoma. Not sure how far that is from Tulsa or where the murders happened.

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 11:03 PM
Thread 1: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65845
Thread 2: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66012
Thread 3: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66072

POI:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/SeriouslySearching/POI1.jpg

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366464,00.html

In this link Brown states....


Brown called the man a "witness" and a "possible person of interest," and said someone saw him standing in front of a white Ford or Chevy single-cab pickup truck on County Line Road around the time of the girls' death.

"He was stopped on the road actually kind of blocking the way there, standing outside his pickup truck, doing something," she said. "And they couldn't really tell what he was doing, so they kept driving because it looked a little suspicious."

Snowlover77
06-15-2008, 11:04 PM
Yes, that is what OSBI Jessica Brown said. I was looking for the quote.
we talked about this last night. Jessica Brown from OSBI stated that the witness stated that the truck was,"actually kind of blocking the way there." Then she goes on to say the witness said he was standing outisde his truck doing something and they couldn't tell what he was doing so they kept on driving because it looked suspicious.

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 11:07 PM
Thanks, Ocean and Snow. :)

I still think that the witness could have been driving past on the east-west road and did not go around him.

I wish they would show the witness several trucks and let him pick out the one he saw so they can put a photo out of it.

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 11:07 PM
we talked about this last night. Jessica Brown from OSBI stated that the witness stated that the truck was,"actually kind of blocking the way there." Then she goes on to say the witness said he was standing outside his truck doing something and they couldn't tell what he was doing so they kept on driving because it looked suspicious.


Good memory, Snow.

And he couldn't have been blocking the road very much or the witness wouldn't have been able to drive on by him.

imoo

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 11:08 PM
I don't think the witness did drive around him. See above. :)

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 11:12 PM
I don't think the witness did drive around him. See above. :)


LOL OK, I will admit I am tired. It says the witness kept driving so if he was blocking the road he would have to swing out around him to keep driving. I think the reason he was able to keep driving was no one was coming in the other lane or the other side of the road.

:crazy:

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 11:13 PM
Or...he kept driving east or west on the other road without turning down the County Line road at all.

Snowlover77
06-15-2008, 11:15 PM
Good memory, Snow.

And he couldn't have been blocking the road very much or the witness wouldn't have been able to drive on by him.

imoo
Yea, I think from what the OSBI spokesperson said that this witness said..the truck was kind of blocking the road..meaning not blocking it in a way where someone could not drive by it...
I think it was just sticking out in the road a little bit but because of the way it was parked, it raised suspicions and to see a person doing something and you can't really tell what he doing...you keep on driving. But as I said last night...in that type of scenario, I would have looked really hard at the fellow and the truck and made note of the time, etc...because if something does happen, such as a crtime, then you will have valuable info for the police. And obviously this witness that kept on driving got a good look at this guy so you know the whole event raised his or hers eyebrows and suspicions.

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 11:15 PM
Or...he kept driving east or west on the other road.

You are confusing me, which is rather easy tonight, it seems.:p I see one long dirt road. What other road?

imoo

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 11:19 PM
Yea, I think from what the OSBI spokesperson said that this witness said..the truck was kind of blocking the road..meaning not blocking it in a way where someone could not drive by it...
I think it was just sticking out in the road a little bit but because of the way it was parked, it raised suspicions and to see a person doing something and you can't really tell what he doing...you keep on driving. But as I said last night...in that type of scenario, I would have looked really hard at the fellow and the truck and made note of the time, etc...because if something does happen, such as a crime, then you will have valuable info for the police. And obviously this witness that kept on driving got a good look at this guy so you know the whole event raised his or hers eyebrows and suspicions.

Yes and I sure am glad they noticed him in detail. They will be valuable if there is a trial.

I also wonder what "within minutes" means when it comes to the witness who saw the girls alive shortly before the crime?

imoo

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 11:20 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2298653&postcount=729

If you will go look at this photo...since the sign is sitting right there...I would have to assume there is a road going east-west on this side of that sign. If the witness was driving about where that photographer was standing...he could clearly see the man and the truck without going down that road.

philamena
06-15-2008, 11:25 PM
In this link Brown states....
SNIP

"He was stopped on the road actually kind of blocking the way there, standing outside his pickup truck, doing something," she said. "And they couldn't really tell what he was doing, so they kept driving because it looked a little suspicious."

If he was doing 'something' and had his head turned towards the truck, the so called witness didn't see his eyes.
OR was he on the other side of the truck, facing the witnesses car while doing 'something' and the witnesses got a good look at him?

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 11:27 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2298653&postcount=729

If you will go look at this photo...since the sign is sitting right there...I would have to assume there is a road going east-west on this side of that sign. If the witness was driving about where that photographer was standing...he could clearly see the man and the truck without going down that road.

I see what you are saying but I was under the impression that was where they just blocked off this same dirt road in that particular area. That the sign is not at an intersection but just a barrier put up to prevent anyone from going down into the crime scene area.

Is there a map showing it intersects with another road right there?

Maybe I need to think on it some more.lol I think this man was on the main road and the witness was too.

imoo

Albert18
06-15-2008, 11:31 PM
I understand what people are saying about Taylor's parentage but I think the lying should stop at the grave.

When you lie about stuff like this you do it because you are ashamed of the situation. Which translates to being ashamed of the kid. Taylor deserved an honest obituary. It should have been the least the adults in the family could have done for her. Obituaries can be a very imporant historical record.

The name I post under, Albert, comes from my great uncle who died during the influenza pandemic in 1918. He was 18 years old when he died. I feel a great connection to him and earlier this year I traveled to visit his grave. I know almost nothing about him and have only two small pictures of him. Back in the 1970's my grandmother, his sister, wrote a short family history and didn't even mention his name.

So how do we know there won't be somebody in 50 or 100 years who wonders if they are connected to Taylor. Someone who is born long after most or all of us are dead. That person shouldn't have to overcome a bunch of roadblocks because adults of the day couldn't face the truth.

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 11:32 PM
If he was doing 'something' and had his head turned towards the truck, the so called witness didn't see his eyes.
OR was he on the other side of the truck, facing the witnesses car while doing 'something' and the witnesses got a good look at him?

Well if he was on the other side of his truck at 6 feet he sure could be seen. I am sure when they passed by they did slowly but kept moving.

The comments are so vague they really aren't in depth for us to know his exact position. One article I thought said he was standing beside his truck. He may have had his door open some and they couldn't see what he was doing but they could see his face easily when they passed him and his long ponytail too.

imoo

txsvicki
06-15-2008, 11:33 PM
Seems like the witness would have had to pass the man in order to see brown eyes and get such a description. To keep on driving means that they didn't stop and ask the man if he needed help IMO.

philamena
06-15-2008, 11:38 PM
Well if he was on the other side of his truck at 6 feet he sure could be seen. I am sure when they passed by they did slowly but kept moving.

The comments are so vague they really aren't in depth for us to know his exact position. One article I thought said he was standing beside his truck. He may have had his door open and they couldn't see what he was doing but they could see his face easily when they passed him and his long ponytail too.

imoo
I'm basically thinking out loud.
Ocean, you get what I'm saying right? :waitasec:lol
If the POI was facing the woods, the witnesses couldn't have seen his face.
argg I wish there was more confirmed facts.

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 11:46 PM
I keep trying to look on Google to see if there is a road, but I can't tell. It looks like it tho.

Yes, I guess you are right. He would have had to be closer to see his eyes etc. Unless they are guessing at the eyes because of his obviously being NA. It was just a thought anyway. :)

CarpeDiem
06-15-2008, 11:48 PM
I'm basically thinking out loud.
Ocean, you get what I'm saying right? :waitasec:lol
If the POI was facing the woods, the witnesses couldn't have seen his face.
argg I wish there was more confirmed facts.

Me too, any you make a good point.

I've wondered too if this POI description isn't wrong, if the person isn't actually hispanic.

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 11:49 PM
The witness also must have gotten a good side view of him, too, since they have that on the sketch.

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 11:50 PM
I would think they would know the difference between the two easily as we have a huge Hispanic population here, too.

philamena
06-15-2008, 11:52 PM
(Pictured removed by me.A)

What if someone in the home was abusing the girls?
I'm not talking about the day they were murdered but previous to that day? What if the girls told the person they were going to 'tell'?
I bring up this scenario because the girls were shot so many times.
I recently read that strangers usually shoot a victim once and run.
Someone known to the victim usually shoots them many times.

90% of children murdered are killed by someone they know.

NOTE: I do not want to bring either family undue harm.
But in this type of murder, unpopular scenarios have to be considered.
(Think the Jon Benet Ramsey case.)

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 11:53 PM
I'm basically thinking out loud.
Ocean, you get what I'm saying right? :waitasec:lol
If the POI was facing the woods, the witnesses couldn't have seen his face.
argg I wish there was more confirmed facts.

He evidently was not trying to hide his face just what he was doing. No I dont believe his face was facing the woods.


He was pointed in the right direction but he had gotten over further into the road and wasn't moving. When the guy came up behind him and saw the truck and the OK license plate on the back he slowly passed this guy by using the other side of the road because evidently no one was coming from the other way. He went by him slowly and that is why he got a good look at his face and ponytail imo. This dude may have looked directly into the witnesses eyes when the witness passed by. I think the POI was on the driver's side door area.



imoo

philamena
06-15-2008, 11:54 PM
Me too, any you make a good point.

I've wondered too if this POI description isn't wrong, if the person isn't actually hispanic.

CarpeDiem,
Thanks, I'm starting to confuse myself. :waitasec:

Tonight, I have a feeling the description of the perp is all wrong.

SeriouslySearching
06-15-2008, 11:55 PM
Except LE has cleared the families already. If there was anything like that going on...I would think they would still be working on that angle to find out. Usually in cases of abuse, there are other signs it is taking place. AND we have a POI that was at the crime scene at the time.

oceanblueeyes
06-15-2008, 11:58 PM
Me too, any you make a good point.

I've wondered too if this POI description isn't wrong, if the person isn't actually Hispanic.

Since this county has many Native Americans I would think since they see them all the time they would certainly know the difference. Many times it is the hair and very little facial hair. NA have very straight black hair.

I think the Hispanic population there is very low.

imoo

philamena
06-16-2008, 12:01 AM
He evidently was not trying to hide his face just what he was doing. No I dont believe his face was facing the woods.

SNIP
imoo

Thank you Ocean. I get it now.

cloudajo
06-16-2008, 12:01 AM
I keep trying to look on Google to see if there is a road, but I can't tell. It looks like it tho.

Yes, I guess you are right. He would have had to be closer to see his eyes etc. Unless they are guessing at the eyes because of his obviously being NA. It was just a thought anyway. :)

Ok, I'm so confused. NoZme posted this earlier and said that Taylor's house was above the red "A" on the left (the clearing). So wouldn't the road south of their house be E1130 Rd, and Bad Creek Bridge is north of the "A." So maybe the pic with the road closed is at the intersection of E1130 and County Line Rd. See timeline map too. So from E1130 looking north to where the girls were found would be more than the 300 yrds/900 ft from the house.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.376 88:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.376 88:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e)

Timeline Map: http://newsok.com/article/3255986

Reannan
06-16-2008, 12:04 AM
Gosh, you guys have been busy!!! With Father's Day and a big project I am working on, I haven't had time to check in much. I was hoping to stop by and see an arrest; guess I have that to look forwrad to, huh? Anyway, I still see the sketch POI as being the killer. I believe the girls were walking away from the bridge and back towards their home when his truck came upon them from behind. I believe he did a U-turn right in front of them, and stopped his truck in the position that partially blocked the entire road. I believe he got out of his vehicle and shot them both - rapidly. I believe he was in the process of reloading one or more of his guns when the witness drove by. The witness was smart and intuited that something was amis with this guy, and therefore, did not notice the bodies laying in the ditch. Can you imagine what would have happened to the witness if he/she had stopped and asked if "there was trouble"???

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 12:06 AM
http://photos.newsok.com/show_image.php?tn=0&nuvc=0&p=52616e646f6d495636144212960388d2901a1997023790ab

(I brought this over from the previous thread.)
Pictured above are the grandparents who were raising one of the murdered girls.

What if someone in the home was abusing the girls?
I'm not talking about the day they were murdered but previous to that day? What if the girls told the person they were going to 'tell'?
I bring up this scenario because the girls were shot so many times. I recently read that strangers usually shot once and run.
Someone known to the victim shoots many times.

90% of children murdered are killed by someone they know.


I am going to call it a night. I am not going there philamena. There is absolutely nothing to base any of this on. The police themselves have said they do not believe that the family or friends are involved. There hasnt been one hint of abuse mentioned. Quite the opposite. Taylor was excelling in her short life, making great grades and was known as a sweet and happy girl.

These people may not be pretty and they may not have a lot of money but I bet they loved Taylor with all their hearts and would never have hurt her.

If there is something new that changes that then I will be the first to ponder another theory in this case but until then they are looking for a stranger and consider him a POI. That is the man I hope they find, arrest and take off the streets.

imoo

philamena
06-16-2008, 12:06 AM
Except LE has cleared the families already. If there was anything like that going on...I would think they would still be working on that angle to find out. Usually in cases of abuse, there are other signs it is taking place. AND we have a POI that was at the crime scene at the time.

SS,
I'm just throwing things out.
The girls were executed...why did the killer shoot them numerous times?
Why the the face and body? :(

cloudajo
06-16-2008, 12:08 AM
According to Brown, there were a "couple of witnesses" who saw the POI and gave descriptions. Either together in same car or separately.

June 14th – NewsOK
Brown described the man authorities want to interview as American Indian, 6 feet tall, with brown eyes and a long black ponytail. She said a couple of witnesses told the OSBI they saw the man near where the girls were found dead. Other witnesses said they heard gunshots but did not report seeing the man or his white truck, Brown said.

http://newsok.com/new-sketch-fuels-hope-in-slayings/article/3257467/ (http://newsok.com/new-sketch-fuels-hope-in-slayings/article/3257467/)

philamena
06-16-2008, 12:11 AM
I am going to call it a night. I am not going there philamena. There is absolutely nothing to base any of this on.
SNIP
imoo

Ocean,
There is almost nothing to base any of our thoughts about this case on because the known, confirmed facts are so few and far between.( I'm sorry if I offended you. )

Confirmed facts~
The girls were found murdered.
Off a dirt road.
1/4 mile or less from home.
They were lying in a ditch.
Shot to death.
Shot multiple times.
A few people heard the gunshots.
A few people saw the POI.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 12:15 AM
Wow! Mapquest is SO much clearer than Google. I am going to start using it instead.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 12:19 AM
SS,
I'm just throwing things out.
The girls were executed...why did the killer shoot them numerous times?
Why the the face and body? :(Those are questions only the killer can answer. There is no rhyme or reason for it. Why under the chin, too?

I noticed on NG earlier something about the fingernail clippings. (I didn't catch what it said) I wonder if the girls were in direct contact and fighting them off before being shot? This could explain the DNA that Rosser mentioned they were testing on the girls.

cloudajo
06-16-2008, 12:23 AM
Those are questions only the killer can answer. There is no rhyme or reason for it. Why under the chin, too?

I noticed on NG earlier something about the fingernail clippings. (I didn't catch what it said) I wonder if the girls were in direct contact and fighting them off before being shot? This could explain the DNA that Rosser mentioned they were testing on the girls.

I think they said it was one of the things they were going to look at to see if there is any evidence.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 12:24 AM
Thanks, Cloud. :)

philamena
06-16-2008, 12:41 AM
Those are questions only the killer can answer. There is no rhyme or reason for it. Why under the chin, too?

I noticed on NG earlier something about the fingernail clippings. (I didn't catch what it said) I wonder if the girls were in direct contact and fighting them off before being shot? This could explain the DNA that Rosser mentioned they were testing on the girls.
Oh really? I missed NG.
Let's hope the ME finds DNA under the fingernails.
______________________________________________
Info from earlier Fox News Reports
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365081,00.html



There's obviously an issue here where the shooter wanted these girls dead and certainly carried that to its fullest extent," Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation Inspector Stan Florence (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365081,00.html#) told FOX News.




An autopsy found the girls had died of multiple gunshot wounds to the chest and face, Chief Investigator Kevin Rowland of the Oklahoma Chief Medical Examiner's office told FOXNews.com.
Notice there is no mention of the girls being shot in the legs.



For a year, Taylor had made the quarter-mile walk down the road to the bridge daily as exercise, Placker told FOXNews.com.




In addition to the ballistics tests, police were examining shoe and tire prints, shell casings and any computer correspondence the girls made.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 12:52 AM
Okla. Police Receive 'Hundreds of Leads' in Search for Girls' Killers

Jessica Brown of OSBI said the agency has received "hundreds of leads" after releasing a composite sketch Friday of a man believed to have been in the rural area at the time of the murders.

The possible male witness is described as "part American Indian, part Caucasian," about 35 years old, about 6-feet tall, with black hair and a long ponytail.

"Several people came forward giving us that description," Brown said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,367061,00.html (Bolded by me)

txsvicki
06-16-2008, 12:59 AM
I saw a more in depth article quoting Mr. Farrow (Skylar's grandfather) who said that on weekends there are drunks and dopeheads out and about on the roads. This article went further saying that they would be passed out in the middle of the road and they'd have to go around them. Mr. Farrow also said that he'd been robbed three times in the last ten years.

philamena
06-16-2008, 01:12 AM
txvicki,
Oh my gosh you're kidding?
Robbed 3 times?! :0
Drunks in the road.
Looks like country living isn't safe in Oklahoma either. :(

philamena
06-16-2008, 01:13 AM
http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2008/jun/15/watson-despicable-human/
To some horrible creature, perhaps more than one, Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker were nothing more than target practice.
The two young girls, walking down a country Oklahoma road Sunday afternoon, were gunned down as if they were images in a video game.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 01:17 AM
Benefit Held For Weleetka Murder Victims

About 300 people showed up at Marvin's Place in Henryetta on Sunday for a benefit auction.

They raised more than $7,500.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8494943

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 01:22 AM
http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2008/jun/15/watson-despicable-human/
To some horrible creature, perhaps more than one, Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker were nothing more than target practice.
The two young girls, walking down a country Oklahoma road Sunday afternoon, were gunned down as if they were images in a video game.
She was reaching more than we were! Sheesh!

c2cd208
06-16-2008, 01:23 AM
Wow you have all been busy, I had to take a break to spend time with DH, B was gone and I took full advantage of spending time with DH. We were working on my video project some more!!!

I am praying that we get some answers in the coming week. Its been one week today and I just feel so sad that we do not know much more now than we did when this happened.

lisay
06-16-2008, 01:25 AM
Interesting related story.....
http://www.newsok.com/article/keyword/3256331/

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 01:26 AM
I think knowing his face and his truck is significant progress.

ArizonaGiGi
06-16-2008, 01:28 AM
I'm basically thinking out loud.
Ocean, you get what I'm saying right? :waitasec:lol
If the POI was facing the woods, the witnesses couldn't have seen his face.
argg I wish there was more confirmed facts.\

Maybe he turned his head and looked at them :confused:

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 01:30 AM
I find it interesting what Jessica Brown said today about several people gave his description.

ArizonaGiGi
06-16-2008, 01:31 AM
(Pictured removed by me.A)

What if someone in the home was abusing the girls?
I'm not talking about the day they were murdered but previous to that day? What if the girls told the person they were going to 'tell'?
I bring up this scenario because the girls were shot so many times.
I recently read that strangers usually shoot a victim once and run.
Someone known to the victim usually shoots them many times.

90% of children murdered are killed by someone they know.

NOTE: I do not want to bring either family undue harm.
But in this type of murder, unpopular scenarios have to be considered.
(Think the Jon Benet Ramsey case.)

IMO the shooting was to send a message. It was done with so much overkill and passion. One or two bullets each could have easily killed them. 6 bullets each is very personal. This is why I think it wasn't random.

c2cd208
06-16-2008, 01:31 AM
I think knowing his face and his truck is significant progress.
O deffinatly so, I was just thinking motive and an arrest.

I am still trying to wake up. I went to sleep early tonight and got woke up so I still need more coffee to get the full picture of where we are with all of this.

Leila
06-16-2008, 01:38 AM
Hi everyone, I hope you don't mind me jumping in the discussion. I'm not new to WS, rather new to posting. I pop in here from time to time to read up on certain cases. I've been following these threads for the past few days now.

I do think this is a recap on Nancy Grace, because she has just mentioned the reward being increased to $25,000, which is outdated.

As for the POI, why would he be "blocking" the road as the witnesses have stated? Could he have been serving as a lookout for something going on up the road and/or in the woods which the girls had stumbled on?

Also, I think you are correct in assuming one of Taylor's brothers or sisters is a biological parent. Peter and Vicky Placker look rather young to have a 13 year old granddaughter which leads me to believe that one of their children had Taylor at a very young age and therefore they adopted her as their own daughter. I've seen this scenario several times before, and the bio parent doesn't think of the child as their own, but rather their sibling.

Welcome January! :)

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 01:41 AM
If it were for revenge or personal...why didn't someone from the family recognize the sketch?

ArizonaGiGi
06-16-2008, 01:46 AM
If it were for revenge or personal...why didn't someone from the family recognize the sketch?

a snip from my post #766


The POI may not have been known to the girls, but was a part of the secret. So he was the hitman in effect. Not worried about being recognized because he wasn't from the area. Maybe the girls were set up by the other persons involved, and waited for the girls at the creek, visited with them like normal, then alerted the POI who was waiting nearby.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 01:49 AM
I guess it is possible, but if there were threats...LE would know.

Patience
06-16-2008, 07:40 AM
(Pictured removed by me.A)

What if someone in the home was abusing the girls?
I'm not talking about the day they were murdered but previous to that day? What if the girls told the person they were going to 'tell'?
I bring up this scenario because the girls were shot so many times.
I recently read that strangers usually shoot a victim once and run.
Someone known to the victim usually shoots them many times.

90% of children murdered are killed by someone they know.

NOTE: I do not want to bring either family undue harm.
But in this type of murder, unpopular scenarios have to be considered.
(Think the Jon Benet Ramsey case.)


I also see this as a possible scenerio. I feel that maybe one or both of the girls had been sexually molested and they were going to tell. The person who did the molesting wanted to shut them up, and he certainly did.

Please forgive me for my above comments as I do not want to hurt the family with unfounded allegations but I thought this from the very beginning.

c2cd208
06-16-2008, 07:45 AM
Newest Article: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080616_12_A1_hkicke795342

A week after two girls were slain, Weleetka is still struggling with questions.

poco
06-16-2008, 07:48 AM
Newest Article: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080616_12_A1_hkicke795342

A week after two girls were slain, Weleetka is still struggling with questions.

Gosh, I sure hope they are able to find the person(s) responsible for this. I don't know what to think anymore - so many possible scenarios. I am still leaning towards the wrong place at the wrong time - they saw something they shouldn't have. Did we ever find out what type of guys they were shot with - and they the usual type of guns that a person who owned or hunted would have ---??

strach304
06-16-2008, 08:10 AM
I haven't seen this mentioned or just missed it and it probably isn't significant anyway. But one poster several pages back looked up the temperatures for that day, I believe to see if it was hot enough for air conditioning explaining why the father hadn't heard the gunshots. Looks like it was very hot that day.

In the updated description of the POI they describe his clothes as wearing a hat, long sleeved gray or blue shirt and those boots, probably hiking boots. Don't recall if jeans or pants of some sort were mentioned. The girls in shorts and t-shirts.

Dressed for being in the woods is one thought. Could this mean something? Outer clothing prepared to be tossed from blood? Others?

cloudajo
06-16-2008, 08:10 AM
If you listen closely to the Fri 6/13 news conf from about 2:35 on, it sounds like a reporter asks Brown something about how many witnesses saw POI and how many heard gunshots and it sounds like Brown says there were not more than a ½ dozen combined witnesses. And something like when the witnesses heard what happened they put 2 and 2 together and came forward. I think she says they came forward in the past several days.

I know it won’t be released, but I’d like to know more about these witnesses. Who were the witnesses who heard the gunshots and where were they located? Who were the witnesses who saw the POI? Has their story about where they were going when they saw POI checked out? How old are they? Do they have a teenage son(s)?

Also, if we know the girls made it to the bridge and were on their way back, is that because someone saw them at the bridge or spoke to them? Who was/were that/those persons?

Search videos in last 7 days for “Friday OSBI News Conf on Killings”
http://www.koco.com/video/ (http://www.koco.com/video/)

cloudajo
06-16-2008, 08:14 AM
Does anyone think the POI story may be bogus/made up?

strach304
06-16-2008, 08:18 AM
Cloudjo, I remember one poster bring that up awhile ago and it's a good theory as in the real killers feeding LE false info but LE did say they have verified the witnesses info. or did you mean something else?

EnvoyDriver61
06-16-2008, 08:24 AM
Also, if we know the girls made it to the bridge and were on their way back, is that because someone saw them at the bridge or spoke to them? Who was/were that/those persons?


LE believes the girls made the bridge. They haven't released it, but supposedly their tracks go to the bridge and return. They did not have much time at the bridge, if at all, according to the distance and average speed of travel. It looks like they probably walked to the bridge and turned around.

cloudajo
06-16-2008, 08:29 AM
Question: Can a person's fingerprints be found on shell casings?

strach304
06-16-2008, 08:31 AM
Gosh, I sure hope they are able to find the person(s) responsible for this. I don't know what to think anymore - so many possible scenarios. I am still leaning towards the wrong place at the wrong time - they saw something they shouldn't have. Did we ever find out what type of guys they were shot with - and they the usual type of guns that a person who owned or hunted would have ---??

I am of the same thought as you Poco as to the girls being in the wrong place at the wrong time. They may not even know they saw something. Just the truck was enough.

The guns have been discussed a lot such as rifles and shotguns used for hunting and they do make different sounds. Then something like a 9mm handgun not being used or hunting nor a .22 handgun which both make entirely different shots too.

What I'm interested in knowing is the witnesses that heard the shots, were they in rapid succession or say three shots with a break of 3 to five minutes and then another set of rapid fire equaling many shots.

Annie
06-16-2008, 08:31 AM
Does anyone think the POI story may be bogus/made up?

I remember Charles Stuart gave a description of the person who killed his pregnant wife, when he had done it himself. Also Susan Smith gave a description of the person who supposedly kidnapped her children, when she had allowed the car to go into the lake herself with the children in it. A description may be given to take the heat off of the person giving the description and it may be someone who was in the area who had nothing to do with the crime. I just hope they solve it soon. The people with children in the area must be terrified to let their children out of their sight.

cloudajo
06-16-2008, 08:31 AM
Cloudjo, I remember one poster bring that up awhile ago and it's a good theory as in the real killers feeding LE false info but LE did say they have verified the witnesses info. or did you mean something else?

Yes, that's what I meant. If LE was suspicious though, would they announce that or just put the sketch out anyway because they only have some suspicions and need more time?

TGIRecovered
06-16-2008, 08:35 AM
Does anyone think the POI story may be bogus/made up?

I guess we can't rule out the possibility that the witness with the details about "ponytail man" could be lying for some reason. It does remind me of Susan Smith's detailed perp sketch, which turned out to be totally false.

It is possible that the witness came forward with a POI story in order to divert attention from any questions about why they were in the area at the time, but did not initially report anything amiss.
If the POI is real, I think that he may have taken a few seconds staring down the witness in the car while evaluating his next move. Shooting at an adult in a moving vehicle is riskier than shooting children on the side of the road. He may have already have been in the process of wiping down the guns before ditching them. If he tried had to kill the witness and they were able to drive away, they might have raised the alarm with the cops in time to thwart his getaway.

cloudajo
06-16-2008, 08:36 AM
LE believes the girls made the bridge. They haven't released it, but supposedly their tracks go to the bridge and return. They did not have much time at the bridge, if at all, according to the distance and average speed of travel. It looks like they probably walked to the bridge and turned around.

Ok thanks. I know one report said Taylor would walk to bridge for exercise. I wonder if on that day the girls were told to come right back or not be too long. Or maybe it was agreed father/grandfather would call Taylor's cell when Skyla's mom called to come and pick her up.

strach304
06-16-2008, 08:38 AM
Question: Can a person's fingerprints be found on shell casings?

Depends on if they touched them. With a shotgun that's loaded one by one it's possible whereas a clip no I don't think so. Someone more experienced can answer since it's too early to wake up my brother. :blushing:

If no one answers though bring it back up and will call and find out.

cloudajo
06-16-2008, 08:39 AM
I remember Charles Stuart gave a description of the person who killed his pregnant wife, when he had done it himself. Also Susan Smith gave a description of the person who supposedly kidnapped her children, when she had allowed the car to go into the lake herself with the children in it. A description may be given to take the heat off of the person giving the description and it may be someone who was in the area who had nothing to do with the crime. I just hope they solve it soon. The people with children in the area must be terrified to let their children out of their sight.

Yes, thanks.

cloudajo
06-16-2008, 08:41 AM
Depends on if they touched them. With a shotgun that's loaded one by one it's possible whereas a clip no I don't think so. Someone more experienced can answer since it's too early to wake up my brother. :blushing:

If no one answers though bring it back up and will call and find out.

Ok thanks. I was just wondering because if that's possible and it was planned before-hand, a person would be careful to ensure they didn't leave their prints. But if it was unplanned, they may not have been careful.

strach304
06-16-2008, 08:44 AM
Yes, that's what I meant. If LE was suspicious though, would they announce that or just put the sketch out anyway because they only have some suspicions and need more time?


The announcement of a POI came before the POI pic and the sketch was said to have come from several witnesses in order to come up with the final draft.

MeoW333
06-16-2008, 09:32 AM
Does anyone think the POI story may be bogus/made up?

I've been wondering if the witnesses are in any relation to the boys that had been cleared who shooting at the bridge the same day. Those boys were also in a pickup truck. Yet had been cleared.
Then we also have ATV riders, all of which may not be located?

Mygirlsadie
06-16-2008, 09:46 AM
I have been thinking of this story so much the past few days that I had a dream about it last night. I don't even want to say what my dream was because it's disgusting and I don't know why my mind even went there but ughh I just hope they find whoever did this to these two precious angels.

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 09:54 AM
I remember Charles Stuart gave a description of the person who killed his pregnant wife, when he had done it himself. Also Susan Smith gave a description of the person who supposedly kidnapped her children, when she had allowed the car to go into the lake herself with the children in it. A description may be given to take the heat off of the person giving the description and it may be someone who was in the area who had nothing to do with the crime. I just hope they solve it soon. The people with children in the area must be terrified to let their children out of their sight.

Good Morning, Annie.

But in those cases they made statements that these "made up people" were the perpetrators of the crime. Chris Pittman also made up his story about a black man kidnapping him.

But the witnesses (I do think it is more than one) here may have no relationship at all with the victims and none of them have said they saw this man doing the crimes...only that he was seen in the crime scene area at the time of the crime, acting suspiciously.

I certainly believe the sketch is legitimate. IMO, OSBI aren't stupid and would not send the public on a wild goose chase based on unreliable information. He may not be known in that area but I do think people are recognizing him from the drawing and are calling the tip line. In fact I think more people will come forward now that they know what he looks like and they too may have seen him in the crime scene area that day either earlier or shortly after.

imo

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 09:56 AM
OKLAHOMA CITY
Seven indicted in contraband scheme
Seven alleged members of a motorcycle gang are facing federal charges of selling stolen guns and contraband cigarettes.
Thomas Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON), 63; Wesley George (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Wesley+George&CATEGORY=PERSON), 49; James Oleson (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=James+Oleson&CATEGORY=PERSON), 42; Dennis Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Dennis+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; Smith Justin Beal (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Smith+Justin+Beal&CATEGORY=PERSON), 58; Joe Placker (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Joe+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; and Linda Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Linda+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), age not given, were indicted July 24 by a federal grand jury in Oklahoma City. All of them are members or associates of the Bandidos motorcycle gang (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Bandidos+Motorcycle+Club&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION), the indictment states. They allegedly conspired to sell guns and cigarettes out of Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON)'s Oklahoma City apartment between November 2004 and June 2006, according to court papers.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us)

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:01 AM
I was the one who earlier thought the sketch might have been made from false info. (The artist is very good, btw!) It just seemed like the person giving the description had too many really good details. Think about seeing someone quickly. You usually don't remember too much, unless you are extremely observant like LE who have been trained to look for details.

They had a segment on Oprah once where a guy grabbed a purse, or something like that (see, I can't remember) and ran off. It was outside where the ladies were waiting to get into the show. Very few of the women were able to give accurate details about the perp.

That is the main reason I wondered about the description!

It's baffling, isn't it!

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 10:03 AM
OKLAHOMA CITY
Seven indicted in contraband scheme
Seven alleged members of a motorcycle gang are facing federal charges of selling stolen guns and contraband cigarettes.
Thomas Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON), 63; Wesley George (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Wesley+George&CATEGORY=PERSON), 49; James Oleson (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=James+Oleson&CATEGORY=PERSON), 42; Dennis Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Dennis+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; Smith Justin Beal (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Smith+Justin+Beal&CATEGORY=PERSON), 58; Joe Placker (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Joe+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; and Linda Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Linda+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), age not given, were indicted July 24 by a federal grand jury in Oklahoma City. All of them are members or associates of the Bandidos motorcycle gang (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Bandidos+Motorcycle+Club&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION), the indictment states. They allegedly conspired to sell guns and cigarettes out of Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON)'s Oklahoma City apartment between November 2004 and June 2006, according to court papers.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us)

OMG!

I cant get the link to load.

Can you give a short synopsis of what it said?

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:03 AM
OKLAHOMA CITY
Seven indicted in contraband scheme
Seven alleged members of a motorcycle gang are facing federal charges of selling stolen guns and contraband cigarettes.
Thomas Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON), 63; Wesley George (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Wesley+George&CATEGORY=PERSON), 49; James Oleson (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=James+Oleson&CATEGORY=PERSON), 42; Dennis Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Dennis+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; Smith Justin Beal (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Smith+Justin+Beal&CATEGORY=PERSON), 58; Joe Placker (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Joe+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; and Linda Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Linda+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), age not given, were indicted July 24 by a federal grand jury in Oklahoma City. All of them are members or associates of the Bandidos motorcycle gang (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Bandidos+Motorcycle+Club&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION), the indictment states. They allegedly conspired to sell guns and cigarettes out of Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON)'s Oklahoma City apartment between November 2004 and June 2006, according to court papers.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us)


Oh my gosh, maybe that is why the family left OKC!

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 10:12 AM
Oh my gosh, maybe that is why the family left OKC!

I wonder if he had turned on them and was going to testify for the Feds and they moved him to this tiny town?

Soooooooo it should be easy though to look at all of these suspects in that case and see if they match the composite drawing though, I would think.

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 10:12 AM
Claycat,
That's all the text they have.
I copied and pasted all, and provided a link. You can find it on your own by Googling the following string:
placker site:http://newsok.com

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 10:14 AM
Look at the docket search for OK under Joe Placker.
There's info showing spouse, Ann Marie, who has same addy in OKC as....Peter and Vicky/Vickie, and Linda Kaye/Kay
Very interesting.
Looks like protective order for spouse and minor children too. I'm reading all right now.

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:14 AM
Oceanblueeyes (love the name), do you think the police have checked this info?

rccook555
06-16-2008, 10:18 AM
Found this poem Linda posted for Taylor on her http://v4mp-b1tch.tripod.com/id16.html page. Not sure when it was written but appears to be some time ago.


My Sister, My Angel
A creature is she, brilliant and bright
confident, stands tall, hidden from fright

A wonder is she, so beautifully made,
talented, skilled, she will never fade

A woman is she, young yet mature
influencing, cheerful, made of great stature

A blessing is she, experienced and true,
has often been hurt, has hurt less than few

An angel is she, in heart and in mind,
her halo is hidden, she's caring and kind

My sister is she, wonderful and bold,
I love her so much, she's a story to be told
Linda kaye placker
To you Taylor I love you

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:18 AM
LOL, PoorPaula, that wasn't me. I found the article.

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:20 AM
Look at the docket search for OK under Joe Placker.
There's info showing spouse, Ann Marie, who has same addy in OKC as....Peter and Vicky/Vickie, and Linda Kaye/Kay
Very interesting.
Looks like protective order for spouse and minor children too. I'm reading all right now.

That's amazing, PoorPaulaNNJ, you may have found the motive!

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 10:23 AM
The crime stinks of a hit
But against kids?
But with this article, it makes sense now. Retaliation or maybe supress info from a witness, or intimidate witnesses.

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 10:24 AM
Oceanblueeyes (love the name), do you think the police have checked this info?

Oh I am sure they pulled all criminal records on most everyone they interviewed. They probably were right up front with the witnesses..."do you have things in your past that we need to know because we are going to find out anyway" (example)

This sure makes more sense though......they hunted him down.....they would have known Taylor by sight most likely. Oh my this sounds like a bad mafia type movie. It is so hard to comprehend that someone could do this just for retaliation and they would only be out to get him, imo, if he turned on them and either agreed to testify or was a snitch.

Thank you. It has been my hubby's nickname for me for a very long time. I have very dark blue eyes.

imoo

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:28 AM
That's why the grandfather said, "They killed them!" He knew what had happened!

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 10:30 AM
That's why the grandfather said, "They killed them!" He knew what had happened!


Could be. We don't know if this is really what happened yet but he may have thought the thugs had found them where they had been trying to hide away from them.

imoo

DeltaDawn
06-16-2008, 10:36 AM
This definitely could be a motive.
And if she was in the habit of walking that road daily then anyone who observed the family for a few days would have picked that info up. This seems like a hit to me to keep the family quiet or payback for any info they already gave in the other case.

Now that the reward is up to $37,500 I would think if anyone had more info they would come forward...that's alot of money in that area of the country.

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:41 AM
PoorPaula, here's some other charges for Joe Placker.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp?query=true&srch=0&web=true&db=all&icasetype=&iDATEL=&iDATEH=&iCLOSEDL=&iCLOSEDH=&number=&iLast=Placker&iFirst=Joe&iMiddle=&iID=&iDOBL=&iDOBH=&SearchType=0&iDCPT=&iDCType=0&iYear=&iNumber=&icitation=

strach304
06-16-2008, 10:43 AM
I was the one who earlier thought the sketch might have been made from false info. (The artist is very good, btw!) It just seemed like the person giving the description had too many really good details. Think about seeing someone quickly. You usually don't remember too much, unless you are extremely observant like LE who have been trained to look for details.

They had a segment on Oprah once where a guy grabbed a purse, or something like that (see, I can't remember) and ran off. It was outside where the ladies were waiting to get into the show. Very few of the women were able to give accurate details about the perp.

That is the main reason I wondered about the description!

It's baffling, isn't it!


Several of us think there was a male and female couple in the car together because a male would notice more details about the vehicle whereas a woman would notice more about the man.

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 10:43 AM
PoorPaula, here's some other charges for Joe Placker.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp?query=true&srch=0&web=true&db=all&icasetype=&iDATEL=&iDATEH=&iCLOSEDL=&iCLOSEDH=&number=&iLast=Placker&iFirst=Joe&iMiddle=&iID=&iDOBL=&iDOBH=&SearchType=0&iDCPT=&iDCType=0&iYear=&iNumber=&icitation=


There's a JR and a SR, both have extensive records. Spooky. Giving me the heebyjeeby all the way over in NJ.

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 10:45 AM
Also, plug in Joe Placker on the Oklahoma offender search, and there's a picture for junior. He's incarcerated presently.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=395&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 10:48 AM
SR., the one from the article, owns a place called Renegade Ricks in OKC, 2100 SW 65th.
I'm going to see what's up with that.

Annie
06-16-2008, 10:49 AM
I was out of town when this happened and didn't have access to a computer or TV, so this may have already be posted somewhere. This is a memorial to Taylor. It is beautiful. In two of the pictures she looks so much like one of my granddaughters at that age. It brought tears to my eyes to think that someone could harm this beautiful little girl like this, much less two beautiful little girls.

http://www.shurdenfuneralhome.com/TaylorPlackerVideo.html

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:49 AM
Also, plug in Joe Placker on the Oklahoma offender search, and there's a picture for junior. He's incarcerated presently.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=395&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30

I think you are totally on to something here! You are a good sleuth!

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 10:52 AM
oops, nevermind

DeltaDawn
06-16-2008, 10:53 AM
Could the grand daughter be the daughter of Joe Jr?

Patience
06-16-2008, 10:54 AM
OKLAHOMA CITY
Seven indicted in contraband scheme
Seven alleged members of a motorcycle gang are facing federal charges of selling stolen guns and contraband cigarettes.
Thomas Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON), 63; Wesley George (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Wesley+George&CATEGORY=PERSON), 49; James Oleson (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=James+Oleson&CATEGORY=PERSON), 42; Dennis Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Dennis+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; Smith Justin Beal (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Smith+Justin+Beal&CATEGORY=PERSON), 58; Joe Placker (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Joe+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON), 54; and Linda Shepherd (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Linda+Shepherd&CATEGORY=PERSON), age not given, were indicted July 24 by a federal grand jury in Oklahoma City. All of them are members or associates of the Bandidos motorcycle gang (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Bandidos+Motorcycle+Club&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION), the indictment states. They allegedly conspired to sell guns and cigarettes out of Kirby (http://72.14.205.104/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Thomas+Kirby&CATEGORY=PERSON)'s Oklahoma City apartment between November 2004 and June 2006, according to court papers.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:49MfJkJOV7oJ:newsok.com/article/3098530+placker+site:http://newsok.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=45&gl=us)


OMG! This is just so terrible. I am horrified at the new info coming out but you websleuthers are brilliant.

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:54 AM
I was out of town when this happened and didn't have access to a computer or TV, so this may have already be posted somewhere. This is a memorial to Taylor. It is beautiful. In two of the pictures she looks so much like one of my granddaughters at that age. It brought tears to my eyes to think that someone could harm this beautiful little girl like this, much less two beautiful little girls.

http://www.shurdenfuneralhome.com/TaylorPlackerVideo.html

Thanks, Annie! I watched about half of it and began to sob!

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:55 AM
Could the grand daughter be the daughter of Joe Jr?

She looks like him, doesn't she!

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 10:55 AM
I think you are totally on to something here! You are a good sleuth!

Thanks

Busylady
06-16-2008, 10:58 AM
This is a picture of Smith Justin Beal from 2000

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=94817&offender_book_id=6304

Claycat
06-16-2008, 10:58 AM
Paula, they must know we are accessing the photo. I went back to look again, and it said no offender found by that name!

:confused:

Never mind, it must have been a glitch. Here is a link to the photo. He looks like Taylor, doesn't he!


http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=530544&offender_book_id=315025

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 10:59 AM
No. FD-1999-1012
(Family and Domestic:
Case Filing: CIVIL PATERNITY - STATE (D.H.S.))

Filed: 02/18/1999
Closed: 09/20/1999

Paternity against Joe Jr.

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 10:59 AM
Paula, they must know we are accessing the photo. I went back to look again, and it said no offender found by that name!

:confused:


Really?
I've still got it open, so I'll grab screenshots.

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 11:03 AM
Paula, I know we aren't supposed to swear on here. However...Holy ****!

Claycat
06-16-2008, 11:05 AM
Really?
I've still got it open, so I'll grab screenshots.

It was a glitch. I accessed it again.

DeltaDawn
06-16-2008, 11:05 AM
Yes I think they look alike that's why I thought maybe Joe Jr was her Dad, but she lives with her grandparents who have probably raised her.

Joe Jr has quite the rap sheet under civil cases as well as the selling guns charges. It looks like he has been busy.

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 11:07 AM
Well imo if they were hunting them down they thought he was a snitch and that he had either agreed to testify for the Feds. That is why they would retaliate.

Joe had to be screaming his head off to the police immediately that these ba*tards had found them and had murdered Taylor and Skyla to send a message. It is so hard to infiltrate these gangs though or to get them to talk. I now believe if this guy is a gang member sent to do the dirty work then they are hiding him out.

Oh my goodness this is just so ruthless. To kill anyone is just horrible but to know they will even do that to innocent children is just unfathomable to me.

They may have been placed in the witness protection plan. Now I understand why their home was in such a remote area and very hard to find.

imoo

Claycat
06-16-2008, 11:08 AM
No. FD-1999-1012
(Family and Domestic:
Case Filing: CIVIL PATERNITY - STATE (D.H.S.))

Filed: 02/18/1999
Closed: 09/20/1999

Paternity against Joe Jr.

This may have been filed to get child support for Taylor!

Claycat
06-16-2008, 11:11 AM
I agree, Oceanblueeyes, but I think they would have changed their name if they had been under protection.

This is so sad! Poor kids! Taylor could have been targeted, and Skyla was just there because she was her friend.

Busylady
06-16-2008, 11:11 AM
This is a great find but I can't figure out how we tie Joe Placker Sr to Taylor Plackers grandfather Peter Steven Placker? We have no way of knowing of Joe Placker is any relationship to Peter Placker unless I am missing something.

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 11:16 AM
Witness retaliation is a big problem and some DA's are admitting that it's out of control. There was recently a case in GA. where two kids were shot in their own bedroom because their mother was set to testify in a case. A few weeks ago in Colorado a man was convicted for gunning down witnesses in their car on a busy street. A man in Los Angeles was burned alive at a convenience store for being a witness. The hitmen poured gas on him and lit him up. I could go on and on. Witness protection is not offered and not an option for most witnesses.

IMO, the Placker family has some scary connections that can no longer be ignored. I'm sure LE knows all about this and is working this angle. They just need to figure out who's responsible.

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 11:18 AM
This is a great find but I can't figure out how we tie Joe Placker Sr to Taylor Plackers grandfather Peter Steven Placker? We have no way of knowing of Joe Placker is any relationship to Peter Placker unless I am missing something.

Maybe I need to slow down to read and think more clearly. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.


Didnt it give the age of Joe Placker as 54 in the article about the gun charges?:confused:

How old is Taylor's grandfather? Do we know his DOB?

imoo

Claycat
06-16-2008, 11:18 AM
Look at the docket search for OK under Joe Placker.
There's info showing spouse, Ann Marie, who has same addy in OKC as....Peter and Vicky/Vickie, and Linda Kaye/Kay
Very interesting.
Looks like protective order for spouse and minor children too. I'm reading all right now.


BusyLady, PoorPaula posted this earlier. The address is the same. That is probably the connection.

FlowerChild
06-16-2008, 11:23 AM
As I said earlier, I never thought this was a hit on Taylor specifically, she was just convenient - and alone. IMO, It was intended to hurt her GRANDPARENTS or someone in the family - and the WAY it was done was to send a message to them. I still do not think the girls were the intended target, they were just "handy" - and I do not think the perp knew specifically WHICH girl was Taylor or even that there was a Taylor - all he knew was that the girls he was killing came out of the Placker house.

IF the Placker family was involved with the Bandidos, and then somehow betrayed them (at least in the eyes of the Bandidos) THAT is the key to this crime. IF this was a hit by them or an associate the POI was probably NOT from the area and LE will have to look long and far (nationally) to find him. And the truck is not his either - probably stolen and was in a chop shop in pieces by Monday or is now a different color and looks totally different and is in Kansas or Texas or even further and the POI is now on a bike and is in AZ or NM or somewhere where he is NOT standing out. It has now been a week and if the POI was "hired" or a part of the Bandidos he is in deep hiding or is far away from OK. And being supported by the gang. Unless one of the insiders talks, the POI is not gonna get found or ID'd without a national effort - and a MUCH bigger reward. A bigger reward because crossing those guys is obviously pretty dangerous and this precise crime PROVES it. All they have to say now is, "we never forget, if you betray us we'll make you pay - you see what happens to people who cross us".

IMO, This was a "hit" and innocent children paid. Those "kill shots" give it away - the person who killed them is a cold, calculating "pro" and could care less if people saw him. He isn't connected in any way to ANY of them and knew within hours he would be far away. And THAT is why the Placker family was shielded by a biker group when they left the funeral so as not to be on video and why the OSBI waited until the funerals were over to release the sketch and why the familes have NOT been on TV. They are HIDING and I betcha the Placker family either has a cop living with them or they are GONE. I think within a week the Plackers will all be somewhere else - hopefully with a new name. As soon as they are, there will be "more developments" and more info from OSBI.

My Opinion

Busylady
06-16-2008, 11:24 AM
Thank you, I guess thats what I am missing I went through all the addresses and could not come up with a match. Paula could you post the link that shows the same address. Thank you so much.


BusyLady, PoorPaula posted this earlier. The address is the same. That is probably the connection.

Busylady
06-16-2008, 11:26 AM
Also another name to look at is Jessie Carl Paschal as being Taylors father. It would explain the Paschal-Placker combination name. Jessie is listed as a brother on the obit. DOB is 1/23/1977
http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/getpartyrecord.asp?partynamesid=10193006

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 11:36 AM
Thank you, I guess thats what I am missing I went through all the addresses and could not come up with a match. Paula could you post the link that shows the same address. Thank you so much.

I'm working on it. I've got tons open and copied and in the middle of reading and making more connections.

PoorPaulaNNJ
06-16-2008, 11:39 AM
Also another name to look at is Jessie Carl Paschal as being Taylors father. It would explain the Paschal-Placker combination name. Jessie is listed as a brother on the obit. DOB is 1/23/1977
http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/getpartyrecord.asp?partynamesid=10193006

Busy,
A while back I had found this, but couldn't link it with them. http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/03/05/031124U.pdf

lizzybeth
06-16-2008, 11:43 AM
Couldn't the motorcycle club members have been from the Patriot Guard? I know sometimes when that "crazy church" threatens that they are going to attend a funeral the Patriot Guard shows up to protect and shield the families.

I apologize if it's already been determined what motorcylce club was there and it wasn't the Patriot Guard. I've been trying to keep up.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 11:50 AM
IMO, This was a "hit" and innocent children paid. Those "kill shots" give it away - the person who killed them is a cold, calculating "pro" and could care less if people saw him. He isn't connected in any way to ANY of them and knew within hours he would be far away. And THAT is why the Placker family was shielded by a biker group when they left the funeral so as not to be on video and why the OSBI waited until the funerals were over to release the sketch and why the familes have NOT been on TV. They are HIDING and I betcha the Placker family either has a cop living with them or they are GONE. I think within a week the Plackers will all be somewhere else - hopefully with a new name. As soon as they are, there will be "more developments" and more info from OSBI.

My OpinionFirst...the reason BACA was at the funerals is because they attend EVERY funeral in Oklahoma when the Phelps' family threatens to attend. I personally know the people at the top of BACA's Chapter. One is a CPA. BACA stands for Bikers Against Child Abuse. The group's main focus is to protect abused children. They will immediately go to the child's home, give the child a photo of the group, a teddy bear, and then they will literally post a "guard" outside of the child's home 24/7 until the child goes to court. Then they will escort the child and family during the court process. This is done to give the child a real sense of security and help the fear the perp will retalliate. They are NOT associates of a gang. Most are bankers, lawyers, and other professional people. They were there out of the kindness of their hearts to shield the families from outrageous behaviors and I applaud them.

http://www.bacausa.com/

http://www.bacausa.com/Internet/Testimonials.aspx

I knew about Joe Jr., but LE has emphatically stated they have cleared the family. This means they are well aware of circumstances and associates of the family. We already knew that Peter and Vicky had Biker names mentioned on one of the websites. Granted, the Bandidos could have a connection to this...but right now we have a POI. It would have made more sense for the POI to have been on a bike to do this. It is easier to hide, his face could be completely covered by a helmet, and the getaway would have been quicker, imo. There are many reasons I do not believe the two are associated.

SieSie
06-16-2008, 11:58 AM
Yes, that's what I meant. If LE was suspicious though, would they announce that or just put the sketch out anyway because they only have some suspicions and need more time?
Wow, excellent thoughts. It makes me wonder even more now because they haven't narrowed down the type of truck (Ford, Chevy?) - that should be easy enough to do by showing the witnesses different pictures. :waitasec:

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 12:04 PM
The sketch was a result of "several" people coming forward. This would mean others saw him on the road or in the area before or afterwards. I do not think someone made him up nor do I think that people are mistaken about him being NA. If it had only been one person it could be possible, but it was not according to LE.

TGIRecovered
06-16-2008, 12:04 PM
You make some good points, SS, but I still wonder if a hard-core biker who really loved his bike wouldn't choose to use a different "disposable" vehicle for a hit.

If it was a biker, could he have driven the truck with the bike in the back to the deserted road, then hidden the bike nearby for a quick getaway after he ditched the truck?

Being a biker would explain the jeans and heavy boots in hot weather.

Susan

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 12:06 PM
I'm not sure the Bandido's have anything to do with this. But the case involving them puts an exclamation mark on the bad deal connections in the Placker family. The rap sheets in this family are long. How many convictions were plead down in exchange for information? How many charges were never filed in exchange for information? The possibilities are endless. How many debts financial and otherwise were never settled?

IMO, the fact that LE has cleared the family means they've been cleared of pulling the trigger themselves. It doesn't mean they weren't a target of someone outside the family.

ETA: I think that Taylors grandparents fled violence in OK City alright. Violence and trouble in their own family and the associates of that family. God bless them, they tried.

FlowerChild
06-16-2008, 12:20 PM
There are many reasons I think this was a "hit" - not the least of which is the manner in which the girls were killed.

The killer would NOT necessarily have have come on a bike - because that would ID him as a "biker" - and immediately alert the family and OSBI to the Bandidos connection.

We don't know that the killer didn't come on a bike, just that the POI didn't. Plus, the killer or POI may NOT be a biker, he may just be an "associate".

The Bandidos have been bad news for a long long time, they are not a "nice" bunch of people and are into criminal commerce, drugs, guns, theft, prostitution etc. They are an old style "biker gang" - they were around when I was in High School.

I think the connection is pretty clear here, at least some of the Placker family was somehow connected to the Bandidos. If any one of the family did ANYTHING to really P-off those guys this very definitely could have been the result. The Plackers do not have to be bad people or involved - NOTHING they did could have warranted the killing of two innocent girls. The OSBI did clear the family (meaning NONE of them KILLED the girls) but that does NOT mean that someone else didn't kill the girls to HURT the family and send them a message. The family can hardly change who they are or who they may know (or have known) or who their kids got involved with that were bad news. NONE of that makes the Placker family at fault in this murder - BUT it could be the MOTIVE for someone to kill these girls 300 yards from home execution style.

IMO the ONLY reason for someone to take so much time, and use TWO guns and end the act with two carefully placed execution style shots - after the girls were probably already dead, was to send a message to SOMEONE. A retaliation, a pay back, a shut-up, a vendetta - the killing was, IMO, a MESSAGE to someone.

And it is borne out by the absence of the families in the media, the way Taylor's funeral was handled, the fact that there was NOT ONE SINGLE "family" photo in her memorial video or anywhere - every photo of Taylor shown was taken at school and her family (GP's even) are nowhere to be seen. Not ONE PHOTO shown of Taylor and her siblings, her GP's or ANY FAMILY! There is also the way even the POI information was released. It just appears the Placker family is hiding from something (or someone) for a reason. Not because they are guilty, but because they are (justifiably) scared that the crazy who killed the girls will strike again. The killer has already shown he doesn't care WHO he kills, so long as he completes his "job".

To me, there are so many things here that add up to the Bandidos and a "hit".

My Opinion

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 12:21 PM
LE would be absolutely aware of their situation. If they find any leads or ties to the Bandidos...you know they are actively pursuing them.

evelyn24
06-16-2008, 12:23 PM
I agree, Oceanblueeyes, but I think they would have changed their name if they had been under protection.

This is so sad! Poor kids! Taylor could have been targeted, and Skyla was just there because she was her friend.

Definitely would have changed their name if in the witness protection program, and most likely moved them out of the state.

becklynn
06-16-2008, 12:24 PM
Being a biker would explain the jeans and heavy boots in hot weather.

Susan

Great point.

tiredblondy
06-16-2008, 12:25 PM
IMO, the fact that LE has cleared the family means they've been cleared of pulling the trigger themselves. It doesn't mean they weren't a target of someone outside the family.
ETA: I think that Taylors grandparents fled violence in OK City alright. Violence and trouble in their own family and the associates of that family. God bless them, they tried.[/quote]

Well said... I think it is the only reason I could wrap my mind around such a sensless act. Mark Furman said it was someone who had done this before and was a cold blooded killer. It may not be retribution or retaliation but it certainly looks like that to me. jmo

tiredblondy
06-16-2008, 12:27 PM
LE would be absolutely aware of their situation. If they find any leads or ties to the Bandidos...you know they are actively pursuing them.


and I would suspect if they are they did not want this to be made public

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 12:28 PM
LE would be absolutely aware of their situation. If they find any leads or ties to the Bandidos...you know they are actively pursuing them.

I would bet on it.

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 12:30 PM
and I would suspect if they are they did not want this to be made public

The family was cleared awfully quick IMO. That could be because the family was able to give a dang good motive right away. Not that they know exactly who or exactly why. Hopefully they do though.

evelyn24
06-16-2008, 12:34 PM
I'm confused. Is this Joe Placker Jr who was in the motorcycle gang any relation to Taylor? Did the trial already happen, and how do we know he was going to turn on the others in the gang?

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 12:36 PM
You make some good points, SS, but I still wonder if a hard-core biker who really loved his bike wouldn't choose to use a different "disposable" vehicle for a hit.

If it was a biker, could he have driven the truck with the bike in the back to the deserted road, then hidden the bike nearby for a quick getaway after he ditched the truck?

Being a biker would explain the jeans and heavy boots in hot weather.

SusanWith the searches they did with the helicopters and planes..they would have spotted a white truck dumped in the area. The people who saw the POI can say one way or the other if he was driving the truck and had a motorcycle in the back of it. Also, there would be tire tracks from a bike. If they suspected it, they would have released that information for people to be on the lookout for him on a bike.

Yes, being a biker would account for the choice of clothing, but so would several other reasons mentioned here. For instance, being in the woods.

I am not saying it isn't possible, but I don't think we can jump to any conclusions either.

I am well aware of motorcycle gangs in this area. Outlaws, Bandidos, Mongols, etc. and they can be ruthless without a doubt. I also know they do plea bargains to obtain information on them as in the case of the guy that raped the 11yo girl while her mother held a pillow over her face. She got life in prison and he got 6 years. I am still burned over that one! :furious: I should mention the little girl he raped was the daughter of a rival gang member and when he is out...he is going to have limited time until they catch up with him, imo.

MsBashterd
06-16-2008, 12:37 PM
Hello to everyone first my I say I am a looooong time lurker, this case has brought me out of my shell. I am in awe of this forum it is one of my favorites all of you folks are incredible in your sleuthing skills and your class and integrity and treatment of victims their family's and of each other. With that said I am happy to have finally joined you all.

I have been reading these threads since the beginning of this horrible tragedy. I don't believe their are words available to me in the English language to express the utter sorrow and pain I feel for these innocent babies and their family's. These beautiful children have been the last thing I have thought about before I fall asleep at night and the first thing I think about when I wake up for the last week. I pray for an end to this horror and for an answer for why, why WHY.

The last several pages I have raised my eyebrow up at the Motorcycle Gangs reference. Made me step back and truly think about it and scratch my noggin for awhile. A direction and connection that truly needs to be taken seriously. As the ex-wife of a enforcer for the Son of Silence I was witness to things 15 years later that I will never talk about. They do have their own set of laws and codes for life and death for loyalty and disobedience. The one thing I feel that they would never do and a place they do not go to is hurting children, especially in this horrible and heinous way. No matter what injustice they have felt was brought on them. They usually have the power and connections to definitely find their prime target and take care of it as they feel necessary. Just my thoughts from a stand point of having been in that life somewhat.

I have been reading everyones thoughts and ideas and considering them all. To me it almost feels like something a mountain man (for lack of a better analogy) almost like a war time sniper taking down the enemy. For lack of a better words that is the only thing I can compare it to. For kids out joy shooting or even drug dealers to do this and the amount of psychotic overkill that was involved makes me think that they would have shoot and ran and not taken the time to finish the job. They would have been in a panic and freaking out. The methodical assassination of these babies feels so much like something that a crazy survivalist would do if they perceived an injustice to their person occurred. Maybe the girls stumbled on him or them the shots and kill shoot seems so exact and precise bring them down finish them off. Get in get out before the enemy finds you type of mentality. When I heard of the helicopter scouting around the area I was so hoping that was what they were looking for so praying that they would find them. But someone of that type would have pulled up and disappeared, but for the peace and justice of these girls and their family's I pray that that isn't the case.

Thank you so much for letting me babble a little here I really needed to express myself and try and get some of the pain and utter horror I feel off my chest :blowkiss:.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 12:48 PM
Welcome to WS, MsB! I appreciate your insight into the biker realm and you do bring up some valid points. Most bikers I am familiar with do hold children in high esteem while they wouldn't have a problem wacking their father for going against their code. It is something to think about.

The mentality of a survivalist type as you mentioned could be another possibility. We can look at Garry Hilton and how he lived, killed, and avoided capture for so long. He showed no mercy either.

This could be some crackhead who is delusional and paranoid with some false idea the girls were out to get him. His reaction might be the same...deliberate and brutal.

poco
06-16-2008, 12:49 PM
Hi MsB. Thanks for your post. I must agree with you - even the hardest of criminals do have their code of ethics.......

tiredblondy
06-16-2008, 12:52 PM
welcome MsB

Claycat
06-16-2008, 12:53 PM
Good points, MsBashterd! Welcome!

I do know there are motorcyclists here in Texas who have a charity for children, so you have a valid point about them not going after kids.

I read a little about the Bandidos. They are the second largest motorcycle gang in the world, next to the Hell's Angels.

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 01:02 PM
There are many reasons I think this was a "hit" - not the least of which is the manner in which the girls were killed.

The killer would NOT necessarily have have come on a bike - because that would ID him as a "biker" - and immediately alert the family and OSBI to the Bandidos connection.

We don't know that the killer didn't come on a bike, just that the POI didn't. Plus, the killer or POI may NOT be a biker, he may just be an "associate".

The Bandidos have been bad news for a long long time, they are not a "nice" bunch of people and are into criminal commerce, drugs, guns, theft, prostitution etc. They are an old style "biker gang" - they were around when I was in High School.

I think the connection is pretty clear here, at least some of the Placker family was somehow connected to the Bandidos. If any one of the family did ANYTHING to really P-off those guys this very definitely could have been the result. The Plackers do not have to be bad people or involved - NOTHING they did could have warranted the killing of two innocent girls. The OSBI did clear the family (meaning NONE of them KILLED the girls) but that does NOT mean that someone else didn't kill the girls to HURT the family and send them a message. The family can hardly change who they are or who they may know (or have known) or who their kids got involved with that were bad news. NONE of that makes the Placker family at fault in this murder - BUT it could be the MOTIVE for someone to kill these girls 300 yards from home execution style.

IMO the ONLY reason for someone to take so much time, and use TWO guns and end the act with two carefully placed execution style shots - after the girls were probably already dead, was to send a message to SOMEONE. A retaliation, a pay back, a shut-up, a vendetta - the killing was, IMO, a MESSAGE to someone.

And it is borne out by the absence of the families in the media, the way Taylor's funeral was handled, the fact that there was NOT ONE SINGLE "family" photo in her memorial video or anywhere - every photo of Taylor shown was taken at school and her family (GP's even) are nowhere to be seen. Not ONE PHOTO shown of Taylor and her siblings, her GP's or ANY FAMILY! There is also the way even the POI information was released. It just appears the Placker family is hiding from something (or someone) for a reason. Not because they are guilty, but because they are (justifiably) scared that the crazy who killed the girls will strike again. The killer has already shown he doesn't care WHO he kills, so long as he completes his "job".

To me, there are so many things here that add up to the Bandidos and a "hit".

My Opinion

I saw a photo of Taylor standing there with her mom and dad and it looked like her uncle Joe Mosher on the other side. It seemed to be several people in a group when the photo was taken. The Reverend who officiated Taylor's funeral said he just realized he was kin to Taylor when he went to a family reunion shortly before her death. So the Plackers must have been there too.

So the Joe Placker that has the Federal gun charges is 54 years old, so the article said. Is he Peter Placker's own brother and if so I wonder if he could have ordered the hit if there was one. Maybe Peter cooperated with the Feds and told them what he knew.

He would know that Taylor was everything to Peter and Vicky......so by murdering her it would be the worst of all. I am beginning to think if this was a retaliation hit and poor Skyla was at the wrong place at the wrong time and was killed because the hit man couldn't leave any witnesses.

evelyn24
06-16-2008, 01:05 PM
Again, was Peter Placker ever involved with this motorcycle gang? Is the Joe Placker
(54) in the story any relation at all to Taylor?

tiredblondy
06-16-2008, 01:08 PM
Also wasn't Taylor homeschooled last year before moving here?

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 01:09 PM
If the perp is associated with a biker gang, it will be difficult to track him down. They would protect him without a doubt. It is very troubling to even consider it a possibility.

However, I am not ready to go there yet until we get more information which would point in that direction.

Garnan
06-16-2008, 01:10 PM
I am in Tulsa so I live about 70 miles from there.

Me to.

Garnan
06-16-2008, 01:15 PM
I understand what people are saying about Taylor's parentage but I think the lying should stop at the grave.

When you lie about stuff like this you do it because you are ashamed of the situation. Which translates to being ashamed of the kid. Taylor deserved an honest obituary. It should have been the least the adults in the family could have done for her. Obituaries can be a very imporant historical record.

The name I post under, Albert, comes from my great uncle who died during the influenza pandemic in 1918. He was 18 years old when he died. I feel a great connection to him and earlier this year I traveled to visit his grave. I know almost nothing about him and have only two small pictures of him. Back in the 1970's my grandmother, his sister, wrote a short family history and didn't even mention his name.

So how do we know there won't be somebody in 50 or 100 years who wonders if they are connected to Taylor. Someone who is born long after most or all of us are dead. That person shouldn't have to overcome a bunch of roadblocks because adults of the day couldn't face the truth.

Man, that's cold. It doesn't say to me that they were ashamed, but that things would be easier for the child giving birth, and the baby being born. Every family has secrets. It's not up to the rest of us to decided which ones and at what time those secrets should be told. Probably everybody in the family knows the exact situation, and now LE as well. As the for rest of us, it's really none of our business.

MsBashterd
06-16-2008, 01:17 PM
Thaxs so much for the welcome guy's. After reading your post's for a long time in the shadows I almost feel like I know you folks :).

The hardcore biker gangs do actually have their codes and are very strict about what is acceptable and unacceptable. As twisted as their codes are, children are strictly off limits to harm and retaliation as much as I have seen and herd of. If this was done in retaliation or for the silence factor I have to imagine whomever they were have gone totally underground and are most probably in fear for their lives. I would suspect that they would truly want LE to get a hold of them first before their brother-en find them. What LE would do to them would be a godsend compared to what would happen if their brothers in colors found them first.

However a hit is a whole nother ballgame here, I just am a little skeptical about a hit being put out on the granddaughter/daughter. But boy it does having me giving it serious consideration. With the circumstances surrounding this tragedy I don't think anything should be ruled out or not considered.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 01:23 PM
Well...we can only hope that other bad@ssed bikers are looking for the person/people who did this! LE needs all the help they can get on this case.

tiredblondy
06-16-2008, 01:25 PM
Well...we can only hope that other bad@ssed bikers are looking for the person/people who did this! LE needs all the help they can get on this case.

well said I agree

nanandjim
06-16-2008, 01:25 PM
(Pictured removed by me.A)

What if someone in the home was abusing the girls?
I'm not talking about the day they were murdered but previous to that day? What if the girls told the person they were going to 'tell'?
I bring up this scenario because the girls were shot so many times.
I recently read that strangers usually shoot a victim once and run.
Someone known to the victim usually shoots them many times.

90% of children murdered are killed by someone they know.

NOTE: I do not want to bring either family undue harm.
But in this type of murder, unpopular scenarios have to be considered.
(Think the Jon Benet Ramsey case.)
philamena - I have been thinking this from the beginning. Was an autopsy performed on the girls?

MsBashterd
06-16-2008, 01:27 PM
Well...we can only hope that other bad@ssed bikers are looking for the person/people who did this! LE needs all the help they can get on this case.

+1 I have to think for once I would be cheering them on :clap:.

One of the rare times I say vigilante justice is absolutely called for!!!!! :bang:

CarpeDiem
06-16-2008, 01:30 PM
Thaxs so much for the welcome guy's. After reading your post's for a long time in the shadows I almost feel like I know you folks :).

The hardcore biker gangs do actually have their codes and are very strict about what is acceptable and unacceptable. As twisted as their codes are, children are strictly off limits to harm and retaliation as much as I have seen and herd of. If this was done in retaliation or for the silence factor I have to imagine whomever they were have gone totally underground and are most probably in fear for their lives. I would suspect that they would truly want LE to get a hold of them first before their brother-en find them. What LE would do to them would be a godsend compared to what would happen if their brothers in colors found them first.

However a hit is a whole nother ballgame here, I just am a little skeptical about a hit being put out on the granddaughter/daughter. But boy it does having me giving it serious consideration. With the circumstances surrounding this tragedy I don't think anything should be ruled out or not considered.

I've appreciated you're perspective on this. True I think about wanting LE to get them before their "brothers" do:


Q: You talk a lot about the Bandidos' brotherhood and what it takes to be a member, and yet you acknowledge that some members were not up to par. You write that one club member was "incapable of taking a dog for a walk, much less controlling a Bandidos chapter." How much does character and intelligence count toward club membership?

A: You end up taking in a few people — their agenda is about themselves; it's not about being part of a brotherhood. Those are people who have to have the patch to make them a man. Those people are all about something else. A lot of those people end up being the guys the public reads about in the newspapers. ... They are the minority.

http://outlawbiker.co.uk/news.php?readmore=4504

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 01:37 PM
philamena - I have been thinking this from the beginning. Was an autopsy performed on the girls?

Of course autopsies were performed. They always are when it is a homicide.

I don't think this has one thing to do with child abuse.

imoo

looneymama
06-16-2008, 01:39 PM
I think if this were a hit...they'd not only not want to leave witnesses but they also wouldn't want to get the "wrong" one. I thought those girls looked alike, and if they were best friends at that age I can only imagine that they dressed alike or styled their hair in a similar way as well.

looneymama
06-16-2008, 01:40 PM
and welcome MsBashterd! It was helpful hearing things from your perspective!

MsBashterd
06-16-2008, 01:40 PM
I've appreciated you're perspective on this. True I think about wanting LE to get them before their "brothers" do:


Q: You talk a lot about the Bandidos' brotherhood and what it takes to be a member, and yet you acknowledge that some members were not up to par. You write that one club member was "incapable of taking a dog for a walk, much less controlling a Bandidos chapter." How much does character and intelligence count toward club membership?

A: You end up taking in a few people — their agenda is about themselves; it's not about being part of a brotherhood. Those are people who have to have the patch to make them a man. Those people are all about something else. A lot of those people end up being the guys the public reads about in the newspapers. ... They are the minority.

http://outlawbiker.co.uk/news.php?readmore=4504

Absolutely agree!!! Thank you so much for posting that exert it summed it up in away I was looking for and couldn't quite get the words out. I believe that if this was a hit type situation that the wack factor members of the club was most likely resposible for it.

Patience
06-16-2008, 01:41 PM
I grew up with bikers in my family. I have witnessed some wild stuff but never harm to children. I know some guys yeas ago who were turned down to strike because they were too crazy and wild and the club did not want them. Another guy was 86'd due to cocaine use. 86'd = get out!

I know some use drugs here but if they are not in control of themselves and abuse drugs then they put the club at risk and are asked to clean up or get 86'd and kicked out and their colours taken from them.

The H.A. here would freak out! if they know one of their brothers killed a little girl. They would distance themselves from that member, that member would be 86'd and would not be allowed to associate with any other members. They do not want bad publicity and this crime would horrify them. That member would be history. I am sure of this.

Now the Bandidos, I don't know, as I have no experience with them or their club. They kill themselves though, that I know.

TGIRecovered
06-16-2008, 01:42 PM
Maybe it was not supposed to be a hit on the girls, but something went wrong and the POI decided to act on his own to kill the way he did. Maybe the POI was only supposed to be watching the family, or he was there to scope out their new living situation and report back to someone.

I wonder; if he was there for a hit, maybe he was supposed to kill the adults and the girls just got in the way. Maybe he did not get to his intended target because the girls decided to go for their walk at just the wrong time, he killed them, people started driving by, phones were ringing, and he decided to get the heck outta there without finishing the job with the rest of the family.

You never know where a psychopathic killer will decide to strike. Maybe he is just an evil serial killer who happened to be involved in a criminal biker gang, and couldn't resist an easy, cold-blooded kill. I think he enjoyed it, and will do it again if he is not stopped.

Susan

Morag
06-16-2008, 01:44 PM
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080616_1__OKEMA47218


Rosser said on Monday authorities believe that the person of interest doesn’t have anything to do with the killings, but that they want to speak with him to find out what he may have seen.

Do they really believe he had nothing to do with the killings? Or is this just LE SOP? I apologize if this quote has already been discussed.

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 01:56 PM
I grew up with bikers in my family. I have witnessed some wild stuff but never harm to children. I know some guys yeas ago who were turned down to strike because they were too crazy and wild and the club did not want them. Another guy was 86'd due to cocaine use. 86'd = get out!

I know some use drugs here but if they are not in control of themselves and abuse drugs then they put the club at risk and are asked to clean up or get 86'd and kicked out and their colours taken from them.

The H.A. here would freak out! if they know one of their brothers killed a little girl. They would distance themselves from that member, that member would be 86'd and would not be allowed to associate with any other members. They do not want bad publicity and this crime would horrify them. That member would be history. I am sure of this.

Now the Bandidos, I don't know, as I have no experience with them or their club. They kill themselves though, that I know.

I don't think it is a direct hit because the 7 guys charged were associated or were members of the Bandidos. I think it was a direct hit and a message sent to people that may cooperate with police or who may have agreed to testify against them. We really don't know either way but if Peter knew all the illegal going ons and was a snitch or was a cooperating witness then that would not bode well imo or if he was going to testify against them. I feel like he was already getting serious threats before he moved his family 70 miles away so he moved to Weleetka and made sure their home was in a tucked out of way area and remote.

Peter knows all the particulars and I have no doubt he has told OSBI in great detail what happened and why they moved to Weleetka.

It was a message for everyone that even thought about testifying against them about any illegal wrongdoing. The message imo......."you run your mouth and this will happen." I do think Taylor was the chosen target. Of all the family members in that family the hit man knew the taking of her life would hurt the most.

There are good bikers and bad bikers......some adhere to the rules of the organizations then we have the misfits who are lawless and who listen to no one but themselves.

imoo

gardenmom
06-16-2008, 02:01 PM
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080616_1__OKEMA47218



Do they really believe he had nothing to do with the killings? Or is this just LE SOP? I apologize if this quote has already been discussed.

It sounds like a ploy to get him to come forward. Seems like if he was innocent he would have already come forward, don't you think?

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 02:01 PM
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080616_1__OKEMA47218



Do they really believe he had nothing to do with the killings? Or is this just LE SOP? I apologize if this quote has already been discussed.

Since the Richard Jewell case this has become SOP. They always say they just want to talk to him.:) LOL Sure they do and he knows it .....that is why they cant find him. They know he IS a witness because he was there when he killed them.

imoo

Albert18
06-16-2008, 02:01 PM
Do they really believe he had nothing to do with the killings? Or is this just LE SOP? I apologize if this quote has already been discussed.

I don't see how they could think this guy really had nothing to do with it. The time frame is too tight for there to be many more people on the road at that time.

Plus he was parked right there! Sounds like lawyer speak to me.

lightwaveryder
06-16-2008, 02:25 PM
i did some digging on bandidos cases. I did not find a single mention of a bandidos member harming a child or engaging in the murder of women. I'm sure there have been a case or two of the women but i see a pattern, the pattern is they kill other bikers. if they were going to kill a bikers kids, there would have been repetitions of this in the past. (there are two bandidos massacres on record, all victims adult male bikers)

im going to go out on a limb and say IF bikers were involved, they most likely will kill the shooters themselves to protect their reputation, because no one wants their club to be known as baby killers.

i don't think its going to be a patchholder (full fledged member). Ive known outlaw bikers who are umbrella'd under the bandidos and they regulate their membership very tightly. If a guy beats up his girl, he gets beat up and his patch removed. they do much worse as the offenses get worse.


~lwr~

noZme
06-16-2008, 02:25 PM
Hi msB, Welcome to WS.

question everyone:
If the family was hiding from an infamous worldwide motorcycle gang, wouldn't they have moved farther than OKC to Weleetka & changed their names/identities? I also thought children were off-limits to gang violence. Why if this was for retaliation, wouldn't the shooter have gone on that littlee distance more to the house & harmed the parents?

There is no logical reason for these innocents to be killed, & our attempts to explain it rationally will not work (but I'll continue to read every word here & elsewhere). The killer is evil or deranged, perhaps acting out fantasy. At 1st I thought the drug exchange was plausible, but there are more remote areas for that not far away. I do believe despite what OSBI reports today, the POI is their suspect.

We have uncovered criminal histories in Taylor's family & there a lot of unanswered questions. It's apparent that like many in that area, they have struggled financially. But she was getting love & support in that household to have been an outstanding student & thriving in social activities. It bothered me that in the memorial tribute there were no personal pictures but they may have been too devastated to assemble photos in time; or perhaps have none because of loss in a fire or tornado.

response ?????????

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 02:28 PM
It sounds like a ploy to get him to come forward. Seems like if he was innocent he would have already come forward, don't you think?I agree totally on both counts.

Albert18
06-16-2008, 02:33 PM
This new information about a biker connection doesn't necessarily mean a biker gang had anything officially to do with this. It may just be more info that Taylor's family could have had contact with some very rough people.


We need a motive.

We know it happened on Taylor's turf.

I don't see how it could have been a sexual attack. Sexual predators can grab an adult woman in a mall parking lot. This guy could have whipped that truck in front of the girls and had them both subdued and in the vehicle in less than 30 seconds.

It wasn't a robbery.

It wasn't an accident.

If the POI is the killer, it doesn't sound to me like the witnesses are describing a nut job or a druggie. My guess is they came upon him before he could safely drive off. He was caught in no man's land. If he drove off they might have seen the girls and gotten a good description of his vehicle. The police could have been put upon him immediately. He stood his ground and look how many days it bought him. This encounter with these witnesses could explain why the cartridges were not picked up. He got the heck out of there.

If it was someone the girls had previous contact with I think the killer or killers would be young.

So my guess is it was someone who had a run-in with someone in the family. It could very easily be a lone wolf.

KR2tonenow
06-16-2008, 02:36 PM
I don't think it is a direct hit because the 7 guys charged were associated or were members of the Bandidos. I think it was a direct hit and a message sent to people that may cooperate with police or who may have agreed to testify against them. We really don't know either way but if Peter knew all the illegal going ons and was a snitch or was a cooperating witness then that would not bode well imo or if he was going to testify against them. I feel like he was already getting serious threats before he moved his family 70 miles away so he moved to Weleetka and made sure their home was in a tucked out of way area and remote.

Peter knows all the particulars and I have no doubt he has told OSBI in great detail what happened and why they moved to Weleetka.

It was a message for everyone that even thought about testifying against them about any illegal wrongdoing. The message imo......."you run your mouth and this will happen." I do think Taylor was the chosen target. Of all the family members in that family the hit man knew the taking of her life would hurt the most.

There are good bikers and bad bikers......some adhere to the rules of the organizations then we have the misfits who are lawless and who listen to no one but themselves.

imoo

I think moving in this direction is plausible. Some of these gangs show NO remorse, children or no children.

This is why OSBI can't find the POS. He is already underground.

I hope this family can get WP because whatever the circumstances are, they are "related" through family members, or affiliated through a witness of another heinous crime.

These POS mean business. Poor Skla and Taylor.:mad:

EnvoyDriver61
06-16-2008, 02:42 PM
If you look at mapquest or yahoo maps, you see the whole route girls take.

From Taylor's house to about 2/3 of the way to the bridge, the road is covered with trees on both sides of the road. After that, the trees clear, and there are more open areas.

They are gone 20-25 minutes before they are shot. They walk 3170 feet to the bridge without incident. They walk 2270 feet back without incident, that we know. The shootings occur in the most secluded part of the walk, one that they have already taken and only minutes before they get home

to safety
to help
to announcing what they have seen (at least in the eyes of whoever did the killings).

Why not shoot them closer to the bridge? Interrupted by cars or passerbys? They are shot in seclusion and within 3 and a half minutes from reaching home.

CarpeDiem
06-16-2008, 02:47 PM
Of course autopsies were performed. They always are when it is a homicide.

I don't think this has one thing to do with child abuse.

imoo

That theory has some merit too. A 12 year old outside Pittsburgh was murdered when she threatened to tell on a worker at a neighbors farm for molesting her.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/9400764/detail.html

His recent trial ended in him getting the death penalty.

STEADFAST
06-16-2008, 02:51 PM
Man, that's cold. It doesn't say to me that they were ashamed, but that things would be easier for the child giving birth, and the baby being born. Every family has secrets. It's not up to the rest of us to decided which ones and at what time those secrets should be told. Probably everybody in the family knows the exact situation, and now LE as well. As the for rest of us, it's really none of our business.

:clap:
As much as I'd like to know exactly who are Taylor's parents in order to figure out who might have a revenge motive for whom, I know good and well it's not actually MY business.
As far as I have seen from the web presence of this family, they are exceptionally close and loving. So what if they didn't have a lot of family pictures at the funeral -- I've never been to a funeral with any family pictures at all.

FlowerChild
06-16-2008, 02:55 PM
The reason I feel so strongly that this IS a "hit" (and related to the Placker family - as in the family in general was the TARGET) is because:

They (OSBI) are going to some trouble to protect, even shield, the families (who have been cleared) and the families are NOT taking part in the media campaign to find the killer. Even Skyla's family has been silent and absent from any media coverage -- we must ask ourselves why Skyla's family isn't speaking out - perhaps because they too are frightened and afraid of becoming targets - or becuase OSBI has advised them to remain silent? Something OSBI would do if they thought any publicity might prove incendiary to the killer and cause perhaps further acts of retaliation or "control" targeting the Whitaker family?

The Memorial Video for Taylor released to the public contains not a single photo of Taylor with a family member- and many included photos were abviously taken at celebratory school events where one would assume her family was in attendance and yet there were no photos shown of those events with Taylor and at least ONE of her GP's. I have never seen a memorial video where there was not a single photo of a child victim with ANY family member - in Taylor's video there was not a single baby photo, not a single holiday photo, not a single school event photo containing her family, not a single photo of her with her siblings - in fact, there was not a single photo of Taylor more than a year or two old and not a single photo taken outside a school event or classroom.

This was not (IMO) some "crack/meth head". The behavior shown by the killer (and also the POI) was NOT that of a fearful, whacked out, paranoid, impulsive strung out, tweaking person. This killing shows an unusual LACK of emotion and a level of planning. It was cold, calm, calculated and organized - the killer didn't just mow the girls down from the car and drive off, someone got out of the car and walked to the girls on the ground and shot them execution style - probably after they were dead. TWO GUNS were used - that's not the behavior of a "thrill killer" - that's the behavior of someone who is as invested in sending the MESSAGE to the survivors as in the killing itself. The killing itself seems almost secondary to the presentation of message because the killer risked a LOT to leave that message - something he did NOT have to do if killing the girls was his ONLY goal.

Psychology of this scene says the killer didn't care so much about killing (or who he killed) but about the message the killing left behind. The deaths were only important as the medium to communicate the message and frankly, I don't think the killer cared WHO he killed - so long as the MESSAGE was clear and unmistakable to the target.

And I do think the murders are in some way connected to the Placker Family thru the Bandidos. Perhaps the Bandidos didn't order the hit - but I betcha the killer is related to someone in the Bandidos or is in the Bandidos. Somebody was "sending a message" to someone in the Placker family for some reason...and to do that they killed two girls who came out of the Placker house - don't think they cared WHO they were or HOW they were related. The message was clear and I think Taylor's G-PA knew this the minute he saw the bodies.

My Opinion

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 02:59 PM
OKEMAH -- Authorities investigating the slayings of two girls near Weleetka said on Monday that shell casings found near the scene of the crime are believed to be related to the girls’ killings.

Ben Rosser, special agent with the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, said authorities believe the recovered shell casings are evidence in the shooting deaths of Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, whose bodies were found June 8 along County Line Road.

~snip~

Also on Monday, Rosser said that a second, grid search of the crime scene and surrounding area late last week did not result in the recovery of any new evidence in the case.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080616_1__OKEMA47218

noZme
06-16-2008, 03:00 PM
ED said "Why not shoot them closer to the bridge? Interrupted by cars or passerbys? They are shot in seclusion and within 3 and a half minutes from reaching home."

irrational mind & spur of the moment

I think the shooter may have left home intent on shooting someone, perhaps have passed by the girls more than once on their trek but chose the victims & did the deed in a flash. As I said a couple posts back, I think the shooter is the POI & had just killed the girls when he realized another car was coming. He had to make eye contact or speak to them & say he wasn't broken down or whatever so they did not stop. He may have said he had gotten out of his truck to kill a snake.... lots of explanations. But he shot & killed for NO reason..... my theory only.

MsBashterd
06-16-2008, 03:03 PM
[QUOTE=noZme;2300149]Hi msB, Welcome to WS.

question everyone:
If the family was hiding from an infamous worldwide motorcycle gang, wouldn't they have moved farther than OKC to Weleetka & changed their names/identities? I also thought children were off-limits to gang violence. Why if this was for retaliation, wouldn't the shooter have gone on that littlee distance more to the house & harmed the parents?

There is no logical reason for these innocents to be killed, & our [QUOTE]

Thanxs for the welcome!!!!:)

That is what has been troubling me the most about this theory. If that was me giving testimony against a group such as this the first darned thing I would be bargaining for before I said a word was, new name new life, and as far away from OK as I could get PERIOD!!!! I would think that would be a given especially with the reputation of said group (s). I can't believe that Taylor's parents would have not done this or that whatever agency was involved wouldn't have provided this kind of protection. If it does come out that this scenario is true shame on on them for not protecting this family.

I am with you on that statement (in bold) there can be and will be no logical explanation for these murders EVER!!!! I guess I am in it for some kind of closure cause my faith in mankind has taken quite a blow with this horrible crime.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 03:03 PM
A week after two girls were slain, Weleetka is still struggling with questions.

WELEETKA — Churchgoers were still searching for answers on Sunday — Father's Day — in the seemingly senseless murders of two young girls a week ago on the outskirts of town.

Chuck Simmons, associate pastor at the First Baptist Church, was as baffled as everyone else as he grappled with the murders that have scarred this small farming community. His voice cracking with emotion, the father of three boys led church members in a remembrance of Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, who were shot to death on June 8 along County Line Road.

As he spoke, a projection screen to his right displayed photos of the girls in happier times.

"One week ago today," he told worshippers, "evil beyond our wildest imagination changed forever how we will perceive our little community.

~snip~

"We may never have the answers to our questions, yet we trust in God.

"In a world that is out of control, God is in control.

"When we think of the blessings of children and what they mean to us, you just can't comprehend losing a child, especially what happened to those lovely young girls," Simmons said.

He called their deaths a loss to their families and a loss to the community.

Simmons said raising "godly children" today is all the more difficult in an "ungodly world."

"We don't know what tomorrow holds," he said. "That point was made clear a week ago.

"I've tried to put myself in the shoes of these poor families, but I just can't comprehend their pain."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080616_12_A1_hkicke795342

JBean
06-16-2008, 03:04 PM
Sorry if this has been posted. but I notice a couple days ago that Chris Placker had been convicted of felony assault and battery with a deadly weapon. Could be nothing.

FlowerChild
06-16-2008, 03:12 PM
ED said "Why not shoot them closer to the bridge? Interrupted by cars or passerbys? They are shot in seclusion and within 3 and a half minutes from reaching home."

irrational mind & spur of the moment

I think the shooter may have left home intent on shooting someone, perhaps have passed by the girls more than once on their trek but chose the victims & did the deed in a flash. As I said a couple posts back, I think the shooter is the POI & had just killed the girls when he realized another car was coming. He had to make eye contact or speak to them & say he wasn't broken down or whatever so they did not stop. He may have said he had gotten out of his truck to kill a snake.... lots of explanations. But he shot & killed for NO reason..... my theory only.

Then why stop at all? Why get out of your vehicle and shoot the girls with a second gun after they are down? Why even risk being seen outside the vehicle at all? Impulsive killers would shoot and RUN, not get out and go over and shoot them in the head after they are dead. The girls would be in no condition to ID the shooter after being shot several times in the body - WHY risk getting out and shooting them each again if you were "thrill killing"?

And I think the Perp was watching the house and was hanging in the area. He wouldn't shoot at the bridge (or close) because it was a hang-out and people were there almost all the time. Too public. He wanted a place to not just kill, but be able to leave his message. He chose the spot because it was close to Taylor's house, far enough from the busier bridge to escape notice and had enough brushy cover to allow him to finish his statement in privacy. It was also unlikely that anyone BUT someone else from the Placker house would confront him. He might have killed MORE people if someone hadn't seen him waiting.

In fact maybe his original idea was to shoot (not kill) the girls near the house and wait there to lure one (or all) of the adults out of the house unarmed and vulnerable so he could kill them ?? Maybe he only did the "kill shots" after he realized he was seen and had to leave before a more appropriate (adult) target arrived??? Was the shooting initially a LURE to get to someone else???

My Opinion

noZme
06-16-2008, 03:12 PM
we are becoming polarized in our theories, aren't we?

i hope whatever the answer, the dirty rotten scum is soon behind bars. I liked what uncle joe mosher said about his not needing personal revenge on the killer because someone in jail would see to that.

January.
06-16-2008, 03:21 PM
Has anyone figured out what the connection between Joe Placker and Peter Placker is besides the same address? Could Joe be an alias for Peter? Although why would he use the same last name then. Could be his brother?

Blue_Dolphin308
06-16-2008, 03:21 PM
Ok sending out another theory, What about the family being in the witness protection program?

This would explain :

Lack of baby phots,
Lack of pics with family members, because that could jepordize the family members still living.
Lack of family in media spotlight. Possibly family has been moved to secure location to ensure there safety.
And general lack of information on the family, and its past.

It may be far fetched, but thought I would throw it out here anyways.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 03:24 PM
The reason I feel so strongly that this IS a "hit" (and related to the Placker family - as in the family in general was the TARGET) is because:

They (OSBI) are going to some trouble to protect, even shield, the families (who have been cleared) and the families are NOT taking part in the media campaign to find the killer. Even Skyla's family has been silent and absent from any media coverage -- we must ask ourselves why Skyla's family isn't speaking out - perhaps because they too are frightened and afraid of becoming targets - or becuase OSBI has advised them to remain silent? Something OSBI would do if they thought any publicity might prove incendiary to the killer and cause perhaps further acts of retaliation or "control" targeting the Whitaker family? Skyla's grandparents have been on several national tv shows and shown on local tv as well. They are not hiding. Neither is the Placker family as we have seen their spokesperson, Joe Mosher, on several interviews openly discussing this case. I do not for a second blame the parents for avoiding the press!! They are still in shock and trying to come to terms with the fact their girls were brutally murdered. They are not frightened or they would be in protective custody immediately. They certainly were not in any witness protection program as they would have been had they testified against a known gang of any kind. People around here don't like to be on television while mourning and who can blame them? You are out on a limb on this one.

The Memorial Video for Taylor released to the public contains not a single photo of Taylor with a family member- and many included photos were abviously taken at celebratory school events where one would assume her family was in attendance and yet there were no photos shown of those events with Taylor and at least ONE of her GP's. I have never seen a memorial video where there was not a single photo of a child victim with ANY family member - in Taylor's video there was not a single baby photo, not a single holiday photo, not a single school event photo containing her family, not a single photo of her with her siblings - in fact, there was not a single photo of Taylor more than a year or two old and not a single photo taken outside a school event or classroom. We don't know why they chose the photos they did. Perhaps the family left that task to others and maybe they had limited photos to choose from. We don't know if in the past they had flood, fire, tornado, or other situations where they lost their photos. I do not find it strange that there aren't family photos in the memorials. This is about Taylor and Skyla. They would want the focus to be on them. I think you are really reaching when we do not know even who put those together.

This was not (IMO) some "crack/meth head". The behavior shown by the killer (and also the POI) was NOT that of a fearful, whacked out, paranoid, impulsive strung out, tweaking person. This killing shows an unusual LACK of emotion and a level of planning. It was cold, calm, calculated and organized - the killer didn't just mow the girls down from the car and drive off, someone got out of the car and walked to the girls on the ground and shot them execution style - probably after they were dead. TWO GUNS were used - that's not the behavior of a "thrill killer" - that's the behavior of someone who is as invested in sending the MESSAGE to the survivors as in the killing itself. The killing itself seems almost secondary to the presentation of message because the killer risked a LOT to leave that message - something he did NOT have to do if killing the girls was his ONLY goal. You don't know the demeanor of this killer or killers. All we know is that the grandmother stated they believe that the girls were killed then a killer/killers unloaded their guns into them. I would have to assume they know more than we do about this. Yes, anytime you murder two innocent little girls there is a message and it is cold blooded. We don't know the motive. We don't know the demeanor only that he was acting "suspicious". This could mean he was hopping around on one foot! The guy could have been crazy, on drugs, or a score of other factors could play a role here. We do not know it was a "hit". I have known of more than one crackhead that was so paranoid they shot things up for perceived delusions. They were quite precise so you cannot tell.

Psychology of this scene says the killer didn't care so much about killing (or who he killed) but about the message the killing left behind. The deaths were only important as the medium to communicate the message and frankly, I don't think the killer cared WHO he killed - so long as the MESSAGE was clear and unmistakable to the target. Obviously, he didn't care about anyone or anything. It is a given with the brutality of the crime in broad daylight!

And I do think the murders are in some way connected to the Placker Family thru the Bandidos. Perhaps the Bandidos didn't order the hit - but I betcha the killer is related to someone in the Bandidos or is in the Bandidos. Somebody was "sending a message" to someone in the Placker family for some reason...and to do that they killed two girls who came out of the Placker house - don't think they cared WHO they were or HOW they were related. The message was clear and I think Taylor's G-PA knew this the minute he saw the bodies.

My OpinionI am not saying it isn't possible, but I don't think we will find this to be the case when they do catch up to this POS. The casings would not have been left behind and things wouldn't be so unorganized if this were a true "hit". We need to be careful not to paint ourselves into a corner with innuendo and wild speculation, imo. Exploring all the possibilities is a good idea tho.

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 03:25 PM
we are becoming polarized in our theories, aren't we?

i hope whatever the answer, the dirty rotten scum is soon behind bars. I liked what uncle joe mosher said about his not needing personal revenge on the killer because someone in jail would see to that.

I am waxing and waning in mine.

Now I am not sure I even believe the gun charges on the other seven guys has anything to do with this crime. If that were true it seems to me the police would be pursuing that angle and they seem to still be at a loss when it comes to motive and so does Peter. The reporter on Fox from there said she interviewed him and he is still overcome with grief wanting to know why this happened. He said he didn't believe the girls came up on anything or saw something they shouldn't have.

I really don't have a clue who this guy is but I do believe he is the murderer of these children. I have heard of killers just killing someone they didn't even know just because the victims happened to be there and so was the opportunity.

I think this guy is long gone by now. He has had 8 days to flee. He could be in Mexico or Canada by now.

imoo

noZme
06-16-2008, 03:26 PM
another new name today .... January, welcome to ws!

i cannot answer your Q post #203. but in looking through arrest & court records, there were a few AKAs of other relatives.... & many in this family have nicknames. it's very confusing.

OrdinaryLife
06-16-2008, 03:32 PM
I am not saying it isn't possible, but I don't think we will find this to be the case when they do catch up to this POS. The casings would not have been left behind and things wouldn't be so unorganized if this were a true "hit". We need to be careful not to paint ourselves into a corner with innuendo and wild speculation, imo. Exploring all the possibilities is a good idea tho.

I completely agree, Seriously Searching. I've been trying to look outside the "box", as it were.

What did this family do over the weekend? Did they go to any events in the area? Heck, even a Mall?

I would like to know what the family did between Saturday to Sunday late afternoon. It may mean something or nothing. However, it would be helpful to know where they may have been over a 24 hour period.

I do not believe the extended family, on any level (I know, I've stated this before), are involved.

IMVHO....

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 03:38 PM
Just wanted to remind you of the great site listing a lot of the OK news outlets in one place: http://www.oknewsline.com/ The newbies might have missed it previously when I posted it. It is updated every time they update the websites. I did notice it doesn't have www.newsok.com, but it is still helpful.

Annie
06-16-2008, 03:43 PM
I think the reason that most of the pictures are school pictures is that someone besides family took them. Some families are not picture takers. I go around with a camera all the time, but I know that a lot of people do not take pictures often. A lot of people take pictures of school events and this is probably where the pictures came from. So it wouldn't be to protect the family. There just may not be many family pictures.

MsBashterd
06-16-2008, 03:46 PM
Ok sending out another theory, What about the family being in the witness protection program?

This would explain :

Lack of baby photos,
Lack of pics with family members, because that could jepordize the family members still living.
Lack of family in media spotlight. Possibly family has been moved to secure location to ensure there safety.
And general lack of information on the family, and its past.

It may be far fetched, but thought I would throw it out here anyways.

Ahhh I am so glad someone else was thinking along those lines also. I was going for the parents of Taylor's possibly being in some sort of protection program, not wanting their child to live that type of life gave her to the grand parents. Maybe????:waitasec:

That would explain the missing info and parents, for the life of me I cannot figure out who her parents are. No matter what the circumstance's or relationship's hell nor high water could keep me from the funeral of my child. Unless my life or family's life was in danger even then someone or something pretty powerful would have to be standing in my way. The memorial video of Taylor's was a little odd indeed. It was almost as if their was no history of her up until the last couple of years.
But also if her parents were addicts (pure speculation on my part) of some kind I think that would explain the lack of photo's and typical family type things during her younger years also an explanation as to why the grandparents are now gaurdians of Taylor's. Photo's are not always a top priority in that type of situation.

Certainly it has crossed my mind that Taylors biological mother could be her sister??????:confused:

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 03:46 PM
The family's computer was removed by LE. Someone other than them probably did a power point presentation with photos gathered by friends etc. to help the family. They would not have access to older photos in this instance.

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 03:47 PM
I don't think the family ever imagined that something like this would happen to them. I think they just wanted away from the crime and drama in their family and figured moving where they did would be enough.

philamena
06-16-2008, 03:49 PM
If it were for revenge or personal...why didn't someone from the family recognize the sketch?

Maybe they lied about the POI. :waitasec:

OrdinaryLife
06-16-2008, 03:49 PM
Just wanted to remind you of the great site listing a lot of the OK news outlets in one place: http://www.oknewsline.com/ The newbies might have missed it previously when I posted it. It is updated every time they update the websites. I did notice it doesn't have www.newsok.com (http://www.newsok.com), but it is still helpful.

Thanks, SS, but I do not remember nor see anything that states what the family did over the entire weekend together. I believe all that was shared/discussed was that the angels had a sleepover. Nothing that went into what the family (angels did) over a 24-36 hour period.

I would like to know of a more precise weekend doings these people enjoyed before the murders. Like I stated, it may mean something or nothing. Just like to cross all the "T's" as it were. Perhaps as time goes by, LE will share more with the media in terms of a timeline prior to the murders.

MsBashterd
06-16-2008, 03:54 PM
The family's computer was removed by LE. Someone other than them probably did a power point presentation with photos gathered by friends etc. to help the family. They would not have access to older photos in this instance.

Good point all my photos are on my computer also I would be at a loss to try and produce casual pictures of my children with out it, just the school, prom, type pictures displyed on my walls just like the ones diplayed in Taylor's tribute. Absolutely.

philamena
06-16-2008, 03:57 PM
Mods please delete if this is against TOs. This is a public document. Okhttp://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp?query=true&srch=0&web=true&db=all&icasetype=&iDATEL=&iDATEH=&iCLOSEDL=&iCLOSEDH=&number=&iLast=Placker&iFirst=Joe&iMiddle=&iID=&iDOBL=&iDOBH=&SearchType=0&iDCPT=&iDCType=0&iYear=&iNumber=&icitation=lahoma County District CourtsCase # Date Filed StyleFound Party21 Record(s) Found.CJ-1997-3464 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',719633);)05/20/1997 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',719633);)NEAL CAROLYN ET AL VS PLACKER JOE (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',719633);)PLACKER, JOE (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',719633);)CJ-1997-3465 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',723876);)05/20/1997 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',723876);)WALOS KEVIN ET AL VS NEAL CAROLYN ET AL (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',723876);)PLACKER, JOE (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',723876);)CJ-1998-8400 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',775795);)11/18/1998 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',775795);)NEAL MILTON INDIVIDUALLY AND A VS NEAL CAROLYN ET AL (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',775795);)PLACKER, JOE (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',775795);)FD-1999-1012 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',792025);)02/18/1999 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',792025);)STATE OF OKLAHOMA EX REL VS PLACKER JOE RICHARD JR (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',792025);)PLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',792025);)SC-1997-6922 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',811462);)04/09/1997 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',811462);)EMERGENCY MEDICAL SVCS AKA VS PLACKER JOE JR (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',811462);)PLACKER, JOE JR (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',811462);)ML-1993-6224 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',963589);)11/23/1993 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',963589);)IN RE: The Marriage of DAVIS ANN MARIE and PLACKER,JR JOE RICHARD (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',963589);)PLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR. (Male Applicant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',963589);)SC-2000-23102 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1327400);)12/01/2000 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1327400);)Joe Richard Placker v. John Scott Killip EDNA LEE KILLIP (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1327400);)Placker, Joe Richard (Plaintiff) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1327400);)PO-2002-1453 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1526283);)05/29/2002 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1526283);)ANN M PLACKER/MINORS v. JOE RICHARD JR PLACKER (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1526283);)PLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1526283);)SC-2002-14346 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1552629);)08/05/2002 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1552629);)Kenneth D OHagan v. Joe Placker ANN PLACKER (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1552629);)Placker, Joe (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1552629);)PO-2003-1478 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1655608);)06/02/2003 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1655608);)Placker, Joe R. Sr. v. Placker, Cissy Kay (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1655608);)Placker, Joe R. Sr. (Plaintiff) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1655608);)ML-2003-3736 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1670020);)07/10/2003 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1670020);)In Re the marriage of DEBORAH KAYE PARKER and JOE RICHARD PLACKER (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1670020);)PLACKER, JOE RICHARD (Male Applicant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1670020);)TR-2004-11747 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1780821);)05/11/2004 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1780821);)State of Oklahoma v. PLACKER, JOE RICHARD (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1780821);)PLACKER, JOE RICHARD (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1780821);)TR-2004-15860 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1794921);)06/16/2004 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1794921);)State of Oklahoma v. PLACKER, JOE RICHARD (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1794921);)PLACKER, JOE RICHARD (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1794921);)CF-2004-3929 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1806349);)07/14/2004 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1806349);)STATE OF OKLAHOMA v. Joe Richard Placker Sr (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1806349);)Placker, Joe Richard Sr (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1806349);)PO-2004-1763 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1807530);)07/19/2004 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1807530);)Placker, Ann v. Placker, Joe Richard JR (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1807530);)Placker, Joe Richard JR (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1807530);)PO-2004-2604 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1841250);)10/20/2004 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1841250);)Ann Marie Placker MINOR CHILDREN v. Joe Richard Placker JR (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1841250);)Placker, Joe Richard JR (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1841250);)FD-2005-438 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1875624);)02/01/2005 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1875624);)In re the Marriage of: Placker, Ann Marie and Placker, Joe Richard Jr (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1875624);)Placker, Joe Richard Jr (Respondent) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',1875624);)FD-2007-1081 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2139146);)02/28/2007 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2139146);)In re the Marriage of: Placker, Deborah K and Placker, Joe R (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2139146);)Placker, Joe R (Respondent) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2139146);)SC-2007-17045 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2193421);)08/08/2007 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2193421);)Integris Southwest Medical Center v. Placker, Deborah (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2193421);)PLACKER, JOE (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2193421);)CS-2008-491 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2249590);)01/14/2008 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2249590);)Bank Of Oklahoma NA v. Placker, Joe Richard Sr (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2249590);)Placker, Joe Richard Sr (Defendant) (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2249590);)CM-2008-2554 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2308432);)06/10/2008 (http://javascript<b></b>:getcase2('Oklahoma','','',2308432);)

philamena
06-16-2008, 03:59 PM
Interestingly enough, Joe's latest arrest was for MONEY :

Count as Filed: BC, OBTAINING MONEY OR PROPERTY BY MEANS OF A FALSE AND BOGUS CHECK , in violation of 21 O.S. 1521-1541 (http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/deliverdocument.asp?box1=21&BOX2=OS&box3=1521-1541)
Date Of Offense: 09/04/2003

Party Name:Disposition Information:
Defendant: PLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR
Pending.

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 04:00 PM
This new information about a biker connection doesn't necessarily mean a biker gang had anything officially to do with this. It may just be more info that Taylor's family could have had contact with some very rough people.

So my guess is it was someone who had a run-in with someone in the family. It could very easily be a lone wolf.

This is what I'm leaning towards because of the type of people the family was associated with. Not necessarily a biker gang. Not that it isn't a possibility, but it could be anyone the family had criminal contact with over the years. The thought has occured to me that it could be someone recently released from prison that wanted to settle a score.

If the above is in any way true, how sad. By all accounts grandma and grandpa wanted a different life for Taylor and themselves.

FlowerChild
06-16-2008, 04:04 PM
Skyla's video had a ton of photos with her family - in fact it was MOSTLY of her with the family. Taylor's had not a single photo of her with her family or taken anywhere but at school - and there were photos taken at school events like the crowning of a "King and Queen type event with Taylor all dressed up wearing a crown - where surely her GP's were there and surely someone (the school, the boy's parents?) would have gotten a pic with Taylor and her family in it. I think it was intentional to exclude every single family member from the public video for a reason.

And yeah, the perp could be anybody, but I don't think it was. Stranger killings of children not associated with sexual assault or kidnapping are very rare - especially "execution style" killings of TWO girls in a rural area 300 yards from home.

The lack of progress says it isn't a local or someone known to a local.

And I am wondering if the girls were used as "bait" to get to someone else? Did the perp "wound them" so they would call GP and then have to kill them because people drove by and saw him. GP was looking for the girls pretty quickly...why?? Did he get a call? Is that why he found them so fast and said "they killed them"? Was the perp after someone else and only holding the girls as bait? Is that why they didn't run and were found lying 5' apart? Is that why a smaller cailber gun was used 1st and then a "kill shot"? I just have to speculate, but I think we (the public) are NOT being told the whole story here and I don't think this was some local nutjob running around looking for someone to shoot because he was playing a real-life video game either.

The Placker Family may be the key to why this happened - but it is NO FAULT OF THEIRS that it did. They were not doing ANYTHING that warranted Taylor and Skyla's deaths and by all evidence were not living a criminal life or involved with criminals in Weleetka. I am in no way accusing the family of responsibility or guilt here. If they were associated with the Bandidos ONCE, they did ALL the right things - they left and took the family to a better environment and away from the criminal influences. Criminals are just that tho - and there is no honor among thieves and murderers. Sometimes you cannot run far enough far enough to escape no matter what you do.

And Witness Protection is FEDERAL not State - there is no WP program (as in new identity, support etc) for state witnesses. They can be given protection or held in a safe house before trial, but they do not get a new identity or support after. WP (like on TV) is pretty much a myth except in rare cases, usually BIG cases, not testifying against the Bandidos on a cigartette and gun arrest in OKLAHOMA. If the Plackers did testify or were involved it would have been up to THEM to relocate and start over the best way they could.

The reality - and my gut and logical mind tell me this was not random or a "crazy unhinged killer" scenario.There is not one iota of evidence the girls "saw" something or did something that a stranger would have felt endangered him to the point he had to get in his truck and drive down the road a half-mile, stop the truck in the middle of the road and shoot them a dozen times with two guns - including a "kill shot" requiring him to get out and stand OVER them. The POI LET passersby see him and his vehicle clearly without reacting the THEM at all. Mr shoot-em up would have shot at the witnesses too if he was so afraid of being seen.

And I am still not sure the main witness in this isn't GP Placker....any word on where the GP's are?? Is ANYONE living in the Placker house? I have a feeling they are in PC or "gone away".

My Opinion

harleysnana
06-16-2008, 04:05 PM
PoorPaula, here's some other charges for Joe Placker.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp?query=true&srch=0&web=true&db=all&icasetype=&iDATEL=&iDATEH=&iCLOSEDL=&iCLOSEDH=&number=&iLast=Placker&iFirst=Joe&iMiddle=&iID=&iDOBL=&iDOBH=&SearchType=0&iDCPT=&iDCType=0&iYear=&iNumber=&icitation=

If you scroll to the bottom you find this:

06-12-2008 WAI$ - PLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR 54380067 Jun 13 2008 10:49:02:560AM Realized $ 50.00
WARRANT OF ARREST ISSUED, JUDGE: RUSSELL HALL - BOND AMOUNT: $2,000.00

COUNT 1 - OBTAINING MONEY OR PROPERTY BY MEANS OF A FALSE AND BOGUS CHECK
COMMENT: 2008014178
($ 50.00)

What day was the witness mentioned?
Remember they said... the witness couldn't come forward sooner because he could be identified...
Did they wait until they "arrested" him to make sure he was in a safe place?

What are the chances that this killing was on 6-8-2008 and this guy's last
arrest was on 6-12-2008?

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 04:08 PM
Interestingly enough, Joe's latest arrest was for MONEY :

Count as Filed: BC, OBTAINING MONEY OR PROPERTY BY MEANS OF A FALSE AND BOGUS CHECK , in violation of 21 O.S. 1521-1541 (http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/deliverdocument.asp?box1=21&BOX2=OS&box3=1521-1541)
Date Of Offense: 09/04/2003

Party Name:Disposition Information:
Defendant: PLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR
Pending.Date Of Offense: 09/04/2003 This was a long time ago. People write hot checks and I don't think it is that big of a deal since a lot of what is on the reports are financial lawsuits.

philamena
06-16-2008, 04:08 PM
philamena - I have been thinking this from the beginning. Was an autopsy performed on the girls?

Hey ya Nan.
Yes, an autopsy was preformed.
I haven't heard anything about results though.

STEADFAST
06-16-2008, 04:10 PM
Don't want you to think I'm picking on you, FC, breaking up your post and disagreeing with it! I just wanted to show that there are other ways of interpreting some of this stuff, too. Don't mean to say that I think you're wrong, necessarily.




They (OSBI) are going to some trouble to protect, even shield, the families (who have been cleared) and the families are NOT taking part in the media campaign to find the killer.
How is the OSBI "protecting" and "shielding" the family?
In what way should the families take part in a media campaign to find the killer? Several of them have given interviews. Is it usual for every single person related to a murder victim to give an interview? Is it suspicious if they don't? How would a media interview with a family member aid in finding the murderer?

Even Skyla's family has been silent and absent from any media coverage -- we must ask ourselves why Skyla's family isn't speaking out - perhaps because they too are frightened and afraid of becoming targets - or becuase OSBI has advised them to remain silent?

Maybe Skyla's family is in deep mourning and doesn't feel like being on the morning news or discussing their grief with strangers.


Something OSBI would do if they thought any publicity might prove incendiary to the killer and cause perhaps further acts of retaliation or "control" targeting the Whitaker family?
Or maybe they're concentrating on other things besides the Whitaker family.


The Memorial Video for Taylor released to the public contains not a single photo of Taylor with a family member- and many included photos were abviously taken at celebratory school events where one would assume her family was in attendance and yet there were no photos shown of those events with Taylor and at least ONE of her GP's. I have never seen a memorial video where there was not a single photo of a child victim with ANY family member - in Taylor's video there was not a single baby photo, not a single holiday photo, not a single school event photo containing her family, not a single photo of her with her siblings - in fact, there was not a single photo of Taylor more than a year or two old and not a single photo taken outside a school event or classroom.

Maybe the Plackers don't have a camera. I don't.


This was not (IMO) some "crack/meth head". The behavior shown by the killer (and also the POI) was NOT that of a fearful, whacked out, paranoid, impulsive strung out, tweaking person. This killing shows an unusual LACK of emotion and a level of planning. It was cold, calm, calculated and organized

The experts I've seen have seemed to think this killer was unorganized. I don't think the murder seems well planned at all -- lots of people around, non-fatal shots and fatal ones, casings left around, the girls just happened to be on the road at that time (no way the killer could have known ahead of time that they'd be there.)


TWO GUNS were used - that's not the behavior of a "thrill killer" - that's the behavior of someone who is as invested in sending the MESSAGE to the survivors as in the killing itself. The killing itself seems almost secondary to the presentation of message because the killer risked a LOT to leave that message - something he did NOT have to do if killing the girls was his ONLY goal.

"Two guns" being used could be the behavior of two thrill killers. Also, I don't get how using two guns would send more of a message than using one gun. In fact, I would think that one shot in the back of each of their heads would send a much more effective message.


Psychology of this scene says the killer didn't care so much about killing (or who he killed) but about the message the killing left behind. The deaths were only important as the medium to communicate the message and frankly, I don't think the killer cared WHO he killed - so long as the MESSAGE was clear and unmistakable to the target.
I agree that this killer probably did not care who he killed. I also suspect that the killer wanted to send a message to someone in the family. But I don't think the killer thought it out coldly -- I think the killer was angry and out of control.


And I do think the murders are in some way connected to the Placker Family thru the Bandidos. Perhaps the Bandidos didn't order the hit - but I betcha the killer is related to someone in the Bandidos or is in the Bandidos.
The killer could be associated with the Bandidos, but I don't for a minute think the Bandidos ordered this hit. Even if they were low and cowardly enough to order a hit on a little girl, they would expect it to be done with some sort of efficiency. There are plenty of very bad people with ties to members of this family besides the Bandidos. Or, the killer could just be some nut job. I don't see a way we can come to a conclusion at this point.


Somebody was "sending a message" to someone in the Placker family for some reason...and to do that they killed two girls who came out of the Placker house - don't think they cared WHO they were or HOW they were related. The message was clear and I think Taylor's G-PA knew this the minute he saw the bodies.

My Opinion

IF this was a retaliatory or revenge murder, I agree that Peter Placker probably knew immediately.

philamena
06-16-2008, 04:13 PM
Date Of Offense: 09/04/2003 This was a long time ago. People write hot checks and I don't think it is that big of a deal since a lot of what is on the reports are financial lawsuits.

Yes, that's right SS.
But his last arrest date was for 06/08.

harleysnana
06-16-2008, 04:14 PM
Interestingly enough, Joe's latest arrest was for MONEY :

Count as Filed: BC, OBTAINING MONEY OR PROPERTY BY MEANS OF A FALSE AND BOGUS CHECK , in violation of 21 O.S. 1521-1541 (http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/deliverdocument.asp?box1=21&BOX2=OS&box3=1521-1541)
Date Of Offense: 09/04/2003

Party Name:Disposition Information:
Defendant: PLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR
Pending.
Even more interesting is when they put out the warrant for his arrest for this!
6-12-2008 :eek:

philamena
06-16-2008, 04:17 PM
I think that's very interesting harley'snana.

Garnan
06-16-2008, 04:23 PM
Maybe the funeral home didn't have the necessary scanners to convert paper pictures to digital. Maybe it was broken or something, and they had to use only the digital shots that the school had. I don't have a digital camera. All my pics are on paper.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 04:25 PM
Flower, I think you are getting carried away and might lead others to miss other leads in this case. We need to keep an open mind to any motives and wait until the evidence is released before forming set opinions. Exploring all the avenues to lead us to the killer/killers is difficult when we don't know what is going on in the investigation. This is the reason I didn't mention Joe Placker initally because I knew people would have to assume it was all about him...which it may have nothing to do with him! (I even checked out the company that was listed on his shirt for further information and it was legit so we know he was probably working.)

You were not at the memorial, part of planning the memorial, or even knows who put the photo presentation together. We cannot simply assume anything sinister from what was done or not done at the memorial service for Taylor. We don't know if the grands might hate having their photos taken or if they were the type to even be big on photography at all. Maybe they don't even own a camera for all we know!
There are very few photos of me with my kids or relatives because I was always the one behind the lens. Go figure! I guess I could be accused of trying to hide my identity, too. (No way...but still!)

If I were the grandparents, I would want to be away from all the things going on right now. I hope they do have a place to retreat to for a few days. I have a feeling they don't have the money to go far and probably did not leave their home either. I do not believe for a second they are "on the run" from the killer/killers or in hiding in concert with LE.

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 04:25 PM
Even more interesting is when they put out the warrant for his arrest for this!
6-12-2008 :eek:

Three days after the girls are murdered a warrant is issued for a bad check from 2003? Am I understanding this correctly?

MsBashterd
06-16-2008, 04:26 PM
Even more interesting is when they put out the warrant for his arrest for this!
6-12-2008 :eek:

Ok with all the different names flyin around and all I probably missed this but is this person Joe Richard Plaker Jr the possible father of Taylor's?????? :waitasec:

harleysnana
06-16-2008, 04:29 PM
Three days after the girls are murdered a warrant is issued for a bad check from 2003? Am I understanding this correctly?

Here is the link that was posted http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/GetCaseInformation.asp?submitted=true&viewtype=caseGeneral&casemasterID=2308432&db=Oklahoma
Take a peek and see what you think....

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 04:31 PM
Yes, that's right SS.
But his last arrest date was for 06/08.I just don't think writing hot checks or his arrest has anything to do with this. In the course of the investigation, they could have realized their oversite to arrest him before and took care of it. Or maybe they didn't know where Joe was living until they dove into the family tree for suspects. Sometimes, they won't go out and actively arrest them on a Bench Warrant, but if they are popped on a traffic violation or other...they will take them to jail for it.

STEADFAST
06-16-2008, 04:32 PM
What day was the witness mentioned?
Remember they said... the witness couldn't come forward sooner because he could be identified...
Did they wait until they "arrested" him to make sure he was in a safe place?

What are the chances that this killing was on 6-8-2008 and this guy's last
arrest was on 6-12-2008?[/QUOTE]

You may be onto something!

SailorMoon
06-16-2008, 04:33 PM
Three days after the girls are murdered a warrant is issued for a bad check from 2003? Am I understanding this correctly?

You took the words right out of my mouth....interesting, very interesting.

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 04:33 PM
Here is the link that was posted http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/GetCaseInformation.asp?submitted=true&viewtype=caseGeneral&casemasterID=2308432&db=Oklahoma
Take a peek and see what you think....


Curiouser and curiouser. It was filed two days after the girls were murdered. 6-10-08.

Why bother with a five year old bad check? Or is it a reason to apprehend and hold someone behind bars on one case while gathering evidence on another?

STEADFAST
06-16-2008, 04:34 PM
Ok with all the different names flyin around and all I probably missed this but is this person Joe Richard Plaker Jr the possible father of Taylor's?????? :waitasec:

I don't think so. He'd have to be Peter Placker's son to be Taylor's father. Looks like his father must be Joe Richard Placker, Sr.

harleysnana
06-16-2008, 04:34 PM
Ok with all the different names flyin around and all I probably missed this but is this person Joe Richard Plaker Jr the possible father of Taylor's?????? :waitasec:

The only connection at this time that I can see is from this post:

Look at the docket search for OK under Joe Placker.
There's info showing spouse, Ann Marie, who has same addy in OKC as....Peter and Vicky/Vickie, and Linda Kaye/Kay
Very interesting.
Looks like protective order for spouse and minor children too. I'm reading all right now.
I added the red.

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 04:37 PM
It also could be that while initially investigating the family, LE realized that this was unfinished business and decided to take care of it while it was in front of them. Kinda weird though.

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 04:38 PM
Curiouser and curiouser. It was filed the day after the girls were murdered. 6-10-08.

Why bother with a five year old bad check? Or is it a reason to apprehend and hold someone behind bars on one case while gathering evidence on another?The girls were murdered on June 8, 2008. My first post on the case was done on June 9, 2008 when it came out in the press. LE had a headstart and could have issued the warrant soon after the murders as they were running down family members. Anytime there is a Bench Warrant and LE becomes aware of the person's location especially under these circumstances...they will take care of it. Can you imagine what the press would do to know there was a BW and nothing was done? I think LE was dotting their Is and crossing their Ts.

txsvicki
06-16-2008, 04:38 PM
Good points, MsBashterd! Welcome!

I do know there are motorcyclists here in Texas who have a charity for children, so you have a valid point about them not going after kids.

I read a little about the Bandidos. They are the second largest motorcycle gang in the world, next to the Hell's Angels.


All Bandidos are scumbags IMO no matter what business they're in or what they do. My oldest daughter got involved with this bunch and got on drugs. I figure they'd murder the person who cheated them of money or squealed, not a couple of children though. Of course, around here, I never hear of any of them ever getting into any trouble or charged with anything as a group.

evelyn24
06-16-2008, 04:39 PM
Skyla's video had a ton of photos with her family - in fact it was MOSTLY of her with the family. Taylor's had not a single photo of her with her family or taken anywhere but at school - and there were photos taken at school events like the crowning of a "King and Queen type event with Taylor all dressed up wearing a crown - where surely her GP's were there and surely someone (the school, the boy's parents?) would have gotten a pic with Taylor and her family in it. I think it was intentional to exclude every single family member from the public video for a reason.

And yeah, the perp could be anybody, but I don't think it was. Stranger killings of children not associated with sexual assault or kidnapping are very rare - especially "execution style" killings of TWO girls in a rural area 300 yards from home.

The lack of progress says it isn't a local or someone known to a local.

And I am wondering if the girls were used as "bait" to get to someone else? Did the perp "wound them" so they would call GP and then have to kill them because people drove by and saw him. GP was looking for the girls pretty quickly...why?? Did he get a call? Is that why he found them so fast and said "they killed them"? Was the perp after someone else and only holding the girls as bait? Is that why they didn't run and were found lying 5' apart? Is that why a smaller cailber gun was used 1st and then a "kill shot"? I just have to speculate, but I think we (the public) are NOT being told the whole story here and I don't think this was some local nutjob running around looking for someone to shoot because he was playing a real-life video game either.

The Placker Family may be the key to why this happened - but it is NO FAULT OF THEIRS that it did. They were not doing ANYTHING that warranted Taylor and Skyla's deaths and by all evidence were not living a criminal life or involved with criminals in Weleetka. I am in no way accusing the family of responsibility or guilt here. If they were associated with the Bandidos ONCE, they did ALL the right things - they left and took the family to a better environment and away from the criminal influences. Criminals are just that tho - and there is no honor among thieves and murderers. Sometimes you cannot run far enough far enough to escape no matter what you do.

And Witness Protection is FEDERAL not State - there is no WP program (as in new identity, support etc) for state witnesses. They can be given protection or held in a safe house before trial, but they do not get a new identity or support after. WP (like on TV) is pretty much a myth except in rare cases, usually BIG cases, not testifying against the Bandidos on a cigartette and gun arrest in OKLAHOMA. If the Plackers did testify or were involved it would have been up to THEM to relocate and start over the best way they could.

The reality - and my gut and logical mind tell me this was not random or a "crazy unhinged killer" scenario.There is not one iota of evidence the girls "saw" something or did something that a stranger would have felt endangered him to the point he had to get in his truck and drive down the road a half-mile, stop the truck in the middle of the road and shoot them a dozen times with two guns - including a "kill shot" requiring him to get out and stand OVER them. The POI LET passersby see him and his vehicle clearly without reacting the THEM at all. Mr shoot-em up would have shot at the witnesses too if he was so afraid of being seen.

And I am still not sure the main witness in this isn't GP Placker....any word on where the GP's are?? Is ANYONE living in the Placker house? I have a feeling they are in PC or "gone away".

My Opinion

The indictments for the seven motorcycle gang members were Federal charges.

Albert18
06-16-2008, 04:39 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss what FlowerChild is saying.

SuziQ
06-16-2008, 04:39 PM
The girls were murdered on June 8, 2008. My first post on the case was done on June 9, 2008 when it came out in the press. LE had a headstart and could have issued the warrant soon after the murders as they were running down family members.

Thanks, I just fixed my post.

MsBashterd
06-16-2008, 04:43 PM
I don't think so. He'd have to be Peter Placker's son to be Taylor's father. Looks like his father must be Joe Richard Placker, Sr.


The only connection at this time that I can see is from this post:

I added the red.

Thanxs guy's all I have to say is WOW now that is a family tree!!!!! :eek:

SeriouslySearching
06-16-2008, 04:43 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss what FlowerChild is saying.I didn't say dismiss it. We just need to realize it is one of many possible scenarios and not the whole enchilada. It should be explored along with every other possible motive here since we have none.

harleysnana
06-16-2008, 04:55 PM
Anytime there is a Bench Warrant and LE becomes aware of the person's location especially under these circumstances...they will take care of it. Can you imagine what the press would do to know there was a BW and nothing was done? I think LE was dotting their Is and crossing their Ts.

But the warrant wasn't issued until after the murders.
And from a bad check in 2003....
Do you not think this is odd?

So let's assume the press did get hold of this bad check charge from 2003...
how would that make LE look bad?

Lyn1001
06-16-2008, 04:58 PM
In regards to the warrant, depending on LE, they may NEVER arrest someone! In my job I come across people with warrants. I inform LE of the current address (which most times is the one on the warrent), and they tell me they don't have room in the jail at this time or it's not that big of a deal, so they're not going to go get them. I've even had people with warrants walk into a court house before and not get picked up on a warrant because it was too much trouble for what the warrant was for. So, yes, I do think it's a little odd that after all this time LE would issue a warrant.

harleysnana
06-16-2008, 05:00 PM
I didn't say dismiss it. We just need to realize it is one of many possible scenarios and not the whole enchilada. It should be explored along with every other possible motive here since we have none.

:blowkiss:
SS you seem to want to dismiss any idea that does not go with yours.
IMO

oceanblueeyes
06-16-2008, 05:03 PM
I just don't think writing hot checks or his arrest has anything to do with this. In the course of the investigation, they could have realized their oversite to arrest him before and took care of it. Or maybe they didn't know where Joe was living until they dove into the family tree for suspects. Sometimes, they won't go out and actively arrest them on a Bench Warrant, but if they are popped on a traffic violation or other...they will take them to jail for it.

SS, didn't Taylor live in one community and Skyla live in another?

I thought it was something like HenriXXXX...something lol

Just wondering. And do you know how far that was from Taylor's home?

Thanks