Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #6

[WindChime]

Continue here please...


Thread 1: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65845
Thread 2: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66012
Thread 3: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66072
Thread 4: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66136
Thread 5: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66203

[SailorMoon]

I'm here.....anyone else here? Bueller??

[MissHolmes]

I'm here.....anyone else here? Bueller??

Bueller went to the parade with Cameron :)

[lilllbird]

Bueller went to the parade with Cameron :)

and Sloane of course

[SailorMoon]

Well then!! I'm watching Amityville Horror with the little one..so guess I'll check back later or tomorrow morning!! Show always creeps me out (one made in 1979).

Hopefully someone knows something....but that reward doesn't seem to be worth telling on someone.

[missmuffit]

Bueller went to the parade with Cameron :)


lol That was one of my favorite movies when I was in middle school. I wanted to be Jennifer Grey. :dance:

MM ~

[GetSmart]

Ok I have finally caught up, sorta. The only thing I think I missed was the info given about the ATV's & guys in truck shooting by bridge.

I agree about GP walking in the country where I was raised you walk...

The 911 call timeline is no biggie because of the ?? the operators ask we have all heard 911 tapes people are upset & have to repeat themselves so many times with an address & he had to explain there was no address it was roadside, plus describing the scene..they always ask are they breathing ect. then 911 had to dispatch call to correct dept.

That is just my take on it. When I first heard of case meth was my first reaction. OK has a big rural problem regarding meth. I don't know I am like alot of you here so many unanswered questions.
I feel so bad for these families. God please send them the comfort & stillness of spirit that they so need.

[evelyn24]

Well then!! I'm watching Amityville Horror with the little one..so guess I'll check back later or tomorrow morning!! Show always creeps me out (one made in 1979).

Hopefully someone knows something....but that reward doesn't seem to be worth telling on someone.

I keep hoping I'll come here and see breaking news on the POI.
:(

[tamfish]

In their public statements, OSBI is telling the POI we don't think you were one of the triggermen so we don't want you, we only want the shooters. They must think there were two shooters and the POI.

It also explains why the girls were not found right on the edge of the road where they were probably walking and why it doesn't appear like they tried to run. And it also explains why they dropped where they were shot. They were probably given a killing head shot first while being held. They then must have made sure the girls were lying face up and then unloaded on them.

If this is what happened, there should be enough physical evidence to suggest they have it right.

This is a completely sickening scenario.


What is their motive?

[SeriouslySearching]

christine2448 said: I emailed OCSD, told them we are sorry for loss, sent them links to all 5 threads, told them understandable the audio not being released, but could they please give us the time the 911 call came......I will update you if I get a response. I understand asking the question of the timing of the call, but what is the reason to send them the links to our threads? I know I have had to be gone for the past couple of days, but did something occur that warrants their attention? I don't have time to try to figure this out, so could someone please tell me what is going on?! We don't normally send links to Sheriff's Departments unless we have some definitive proof of something. As I have tried to keep up, I haven't seen any valid reason for them to read well over 100 pages of posts involving speculation and theories here.

[missmuffit]

If calling 911 from a cell phone will it pull the phone info like when you call from a land line? I had to call 911 due to an accident that happened behind our house and we do not have a land line so when I called the dispatcher had to ask for my number, address, and name however a few years ago I had to call 911 from a land line and the dispatcher already knew all of the info. Could that have added to the huge chunk of time concerning when the call was first made?

Also are the calls logged from the time when the call was first answered or when the call is ended? Oh one more, would the dispatcher have stayed on the line with Mr. Placker until LE and the EMT's arrived or would the dispatcher have ended the call once the info was relaid?

I hope this made sense.

TIA

MM ~

[noZme]

y'know if sheriff choate had his way, the public would have more information. on the 8th he said there was a suspect. when the big guns took over the investigation somebody told him to plug it up. look back at his 1st statements. & remember the 1st presser where osbi was present, agent rosser answered every question very guardedly. after the last question the sheriff turned back to respond to someone & rosser gave him a "look" that i read to say "shut up now".

choate was a career state patrolman & has been sheriff for only a couple years (iirc). thankfully, it had been several years since the last murder in the area & local law enforcement was ill-equipped for this big case. he did the right thing to defer to the state & as much as i would like the nitty-gritty, they should "hold their cards close to their chest". osbi has access to almost unlimited resources & i believe this case will end in arrest & conviction.

i would like to know how their timeline differs from the well constucted ones that have been proposed here..... i would be glued to a webcam broadcasting from their base of operations.... but i do not want to hear the 911 call g-pa made. i see it as an invasion of his privacy. i pity mr placker for having come upon such a horrific scene which will surely haunt him forever. his privacy in a time of grief & despair trumps the public's need to know.... emergency calls that are not of such a personal nature are a whole different matter.

i have never personally known of a family with so many on the wrong side of the law. although i am always pro-prosecution, i have empathy for this group as a whole for surely there has been much heartbreak. she was in the midst of law-breaking & incarceration, yet little taylor was bright & had set goals & was likely the best hope the family had for one to break out of the pattern.

as much as i have been enjoying the theories & discussion here, i know the professionals are doing their jobs.

[SailorMoon]

Wow...I just took a look at the map again between Taylor's and Skyla's house. I make the drive from here in DFW to Branson once or twice a year. We go up that 69 to I40. There's a heck of a lake near there..that Eufala lakes or whatever. I had looked at the map when this first happened, but didn't realize it was right there by Checotah (Carrie Underwood's hometown). Well...not close but close enough. Not to sound to remniscent of the Groene murders...but someone could be camped out there for a few months to come.

[SeriouslySearching]

When I have used my cell phone for 911 calls inside the state, I was routed twice to get in touch with the proper office to respond. With a call such as a possible (probable) murder, they would definitely have kept him on the line or tried to until an officer arrived. However, we don't know about her phone. Was it fully charged? Did it cut out being in the country (yes, I know there are cell towers in the immediate area...but it might not help with certain phones etc.)? There are many reasons the call could be considered longer than normal such as finding the place which they say is so remote.

I think I have explained this before that when the Sheriff's Dept. receives a call, it is going to depend on who is on duty at the time and where they are located within the county as to how long it takes to respond to the area. They can ask the Highway Patrol to respond (IIRC), but I am not certain in what capacity.

[noZme]

Hopefully someone knows something....but that reward doesn't seem to be worth telling on someone.

the median income is something in the low 20s.... in such a depressed area, a years income is not chump change. here are some demographics from city-data.com:


Population (year 2000): 1,014. Estimated population in July 2006: 947 (-6.6% change)

http://pics3.city-data.com/rod.gif


Males: 482 http://pics3.city-data.com/sg.gif (47.5%)Females: 532 http://pics3.city-data.com/sg3.gif (52.5%)

Okfuskee County (http://www.city-data.com/county/Okfuskee_County-OK.html)
Median resident age: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif 39.9 yearsOklahoma median age: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif 35.5 years
Zip codes: 74880 (http://www.city-data.com/zips/74880.html).

Estimated median household income in 2005: $21,400 (it was $19,141 in 2000)

Weleetka http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif $21,400Oklahoma: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif $37,063

Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $32,400 (it was $27,100 in 2000) Weleetka http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif $32,400Oklahoma: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif $89,100

Elevation: 720 feet
Land area: 0.69 square miles. Population density: 1374 people per square mile
(low).

For population 25 years and over in Weleetka

High school or higher: 59.9%
Bachelor's degree or higher: 8.1%
Graduate or professional degree: 3.3%
Unemployed: 24.6%
Mean travel time to work: 29.5 minutes
For population 15 years and over in Weleetka town

Never married: 27.0%
Now married: 42.1%
Separated: 3.5%
Widowed: 14.6%
Divorced: 12.8%
14 residents are foreign born
This town: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif 1.4%Oklahoma: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif 3.8%


Median real estate property taxes paid for housing units in 2000:
Weleetka: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif 0.7% ($199)Oklahoma: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif 0.7% ($523)



Single-family new house construction building permits:


1996: 0 buildings
1997: 0 buildings
1998: 0 buildings
1999: 0 buildings
2000: 0 buildings
2001: 0 buildings
2002: 2 buildings, average cost: $110,000
2003: 1 building, cost: $50,000
2004: 0 buildings
2005: 0 buildings
2006: 0 buildings
2007: 0 buildings

Most common industries for males:Health care (14%)
Construction (13%)
Educational services (10%)
Administrative and support and waste management services (7%)
Metal and metal products (5%)
Food and beverage stores (5%)
Nonmetallic mineral products (4%



Most common industries for females:Health care (31%)
Educational services (16%)
Accommodation and food services (10%)
Public administration (6%)
Apparel (5%)
Metal and metal products (4%)
Miscellaneous manufacturing (4%)

Residents with income below the poverty level in 1999:

This town: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif 27.9%Whole state: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif 14.7%

Residents with income below 50% of the poverty level in 1999:

This town: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg4.gif 9.8%Whole state: http://pics3.city-data.com/sg6.gif 6.1%

Weleetka compared to Oklahoma state average:



Median household income below state average.
Median house value significantly below state average.
Unemployed percentage significantly above state average.
Black race population percentage significantly below state average.
Median age above state average.
Foreign-born population percentage significantly below state average.
House age significantly above state average.
Institutionalized population percentage above state average.
Number of college students significantly below state average.
Percentage of population with a bachelor's degree or higher significantly below state average.

http://pics.city-data.com/ctransp/18414.png

http://pics.city-data.com/trt/18414.png

[SeriouslySearching]

NoZ, I think that is a bit misleading tho and also maybe a simple link would suffice instead of an entire page we have seen. :) (She explained why.)

You could drive five miles in any direction and probably find a home on land worth a substantial amount of money. I think those numbers are deceiving.

[harleysnana]

Christine has worked with LE on a number of cases and I think she felt they might be interested in what is on this thread. JMO

Either way... I don't see why it matters....
seems no matter what some do or say it always gets questioned.
Guess you can't always please everyone!

[noZme]

When I have used my cell phone for 911 calls inside the state, I was routed twice to get in touch with the proper office to respond. With a call such as a possible (probable) murder, they would definitely have kept him on the line or tried to until an officer arrived. However, we don't know about her phone. Was it fully charged? Did it cut out being in the country (yes, I know there are cell towers in the immediate area...but it might not help with certain phones etc.)? There are many reasons the call could be considered longer than normal such as finding the place which they say is so remote.

I think I have explained this before that when the Sheriff's Dept. receives a call, it is going to depend on who is on duty at the time and where they are located within the county as to how long it takes to respond to the area. They can ask the Highway Patrol to respond (IIRC), but I am not certain in what capacity.

it is my understanding that an emergency call is dispatched immediately, & when in this case upon 1st hearing assistance was needed north of weleetka on county line road, the emergency operator would update the crew on the exact location while in route. however remote, it would be easy to pinpoint as a couple hundred yards past the intersection of (county line road) N3890 & E1130 or .75 mile south of the E1120 crossroads.

we cannot assume the 911 center was in weleetka. there were only 3 fulltime police officers in 2006, & nearest hospitals are 11 miles to wetumpka & 15 miles to henryetta. most likely 911 calls would go to a regional center that handles several rural counties. outside city limits, calls would go to the sheriff's department & state highway patrol. in many rural areas voluntarily certified "first responders" would simultaneously get the call to respond.... i see there is no fire department in weleetka, so i bet many locals are cross-trained in emergency responses.

[GideonsTrumpet]

I just signed up-but I like WebSleuths and hope to stick around. Sorry if I come "out" of left field-but here is what struck me about the Weleetka killings. The first thing was WHY the father or grandfather went looking after 30 minutes. It was a Sunday afternoon and they claimed it was not unsual for the girls to walk that far. 30 minutes is not that long-if you are in a relaxed country setting. Even not answering a phone, I have to wonder why the grand mother was calling. I wondered if he got a phone call-even a call and hang up. Some sign a vendetta was just perfected on his family. THEN I could see a hop in the car and go check on the kids.

I would want to see his incoming calls. I wanted to know what the old man did for a living? They mentioned they moved in the country to be safer-which conflicts with the next comment "there are so many meth labs out here." If I was upset-I would not be throwing out conjecture..I did not get it. Number two observation, they were a LOT of bikers at Taylors funeral. They stood tall with resolve-so this seemed odd.

The crimes were so clear cut cruel-it is the show of power-the ultimate show of power, however sick that truly is. Not pedophile-they are typically after one, and not into killing (usually..) And the bad check writer (GREAT WORK) someone here posted, is not really a violent deal--and we have to wonder if a jail record is not a requirement for anyone out there--BUT the Bandidos dudes someone in here suggested makes PERFECT sense. It seems more likely pay back for a witness - gang related. If true, SURE they are going to say it was an American Indian and General Custard was with him!

If the mob just killed my family-and I could be next, I sure would not be talking Italy-I would be talking Alaska or Siberia. Fear is what will probably keep this case from being solved. Really, how many Indians own a white Ford or chevy Truck in even an hour radius. Either just a few, or they are right near reservation-so plenty. That Federal come down on a Placker just sounds like it has sooo much to do with this. Another person here rightly mentioned Taylor lived around some dangerous people. I saw no Bikers at Shyla's funeral. And I am NOT saying Bikers are bad people-but you can bet they will handle this. Another reason the police probably are going to be led all around on this one. After days of thinking about the WHY? It seems real clear with the Fed set up thing, someone may have sang, and someone may have wanted to prove a cold point. Notice no one went and just did the old man in? That was for "pain" and effect-and to show perverted example.

[pedinurse]

welcome, gideonstrumpet!
i have to agree, shaylas family wasn't the target... i think it was Taylors. that poor baby was at the wrong place at the wrong time (both of them were, but especially little shayla). i am sure it was just because of the people Taylors family had dealings with. RIP.... poor babies.

[GideonsTrumpet]

Hey PediNurse! I am an author-I love your slogan! "What is past is prologue." I may borrow that. As far as the girls, I am sure they froze up just seeing a gun. It was quick. Whoever it was - was pretty confident coming and going.

[philamena]

http://www.koco.com/news/16648564/detail.html

Weleetka Slayings Bring Memories of the Girl Scout Murders
The slayings of two girls found along a rural Oklahoma road is bringing back memories of three Girl Scouts, killed at camp more than three decades ago.

[noZme]

NoZ, I think that is a bit misleading tho and also maybe a simple link would suffice instead of an entire page we have seen. :) Especially since Christine asked the OCSD to read through this mess. (I still have no idea why she did tho?! Anyone?!)
You could drive five miles in any direction and probably find a home on land worth a substantial amount of money. I think those numbers are deceiving.

SS,
i guess didnt realize i was using too much space & i knew nothing about anything being transmitted to osbi.... i bet anything here is old news to investigators....as a rule i do not waste space with smilies & i try to remove non-pertinent info in quotes. i have only recently added a signature... so, 40 lashes with a wet noodle for me!

i stuck all that data on my post because some users have reported having trouble linking to outside sites.... my thinking was to give readers insight to small town, ok. several posters living in nearby towns have written that area is very depressed. i am sure there is a broader spectrum of property values, industry, resources & education nearer you in oklahoma city.

this is the link to sources:
http://www.city-data.com/city/Weleetka-Oklahoma.html (http://www.city-data.com/city/Weleetka-Oklahoma.html)

goodnight all. hoping tomorrow will bring arrests.

[GideonsTrumpet]

I LOVE this web site. You people do NOT screw around. You whipped up mug shots and stuff I never thought was available-in no time. I DID look at what felons were in the 30 mile radius. I was trying to see if there were any Plackers in there. It was some tool people pass around to see who their nieghbors are. I did not find many felons-just several people for sodomy if you can figure that. Not anyone into girls. Few people even report sodomy, so I can only think it is rampant there. Funny, not one meth or drug possesion felon.

[Busylady]

GideonsTrumpet welcome to WS. I know there are tons of post on this topic so thought I would catch up on just a few things that you brought up in your first post.

Taylor and Skyla had a sleepover on Saturday night, Skyla's mother had called Sunday after the girls had left the house saying she was on her way to pick up Skyla. The grandmother tired to reach Taylor by cell phone to let them know Skyla's mom was on th way and they needed to return home. She did not get an answer so the grandfather went out to tell them they needed to get back home, he then found the bodies.

The bikers at Taylors funeral where there because there was a rumor of a protest that was going to happen. These bikers (believe they are called BACA - bikers against child abuse) attend funerals all over the place when there is rumors of a protest. I will try and find the article, but these bikers basically formed a line held up their jackets and protected this family from the media and curious onlookers during this most private emotional time while they were attempting to attend their grand daughters funeral.

[FlowerChild]

http://www.koco.com/news/16648564/detail.html

I thought of the Girl Scout murders the SECOND I heard about Taylor and Skyla - both such a senseless, cruel fate for innocent girls. And 31 years later we still have no resolution or motive in that case ...or this one.

I have a (small) personal connection to the GS Murders and I have always felt there was something vital that was missed in the GS case - something that might have seemed insignificant, but wasn't. I am happy that the OSBI is being so careful and thorough in this case but I also hope that behind the scenes they are brainstorming and throwing around theories and turning every piece of evidence on it's head until they are seeing everything they know in every possible way. Technology and evidence are useless without the tireless footwork, the dull detail pounding and the intellect and instincts of dedicated LE officers. KEEP WORKING - we believe you can send every perpetrator responsible for the death of pure light and innocence in both cases into the bottom of hell where they belong.

We have come so far in crime scene technology and profiling since 1977 - and the GS murders had a definite "profile" and signature...like THIS case does. I hope we aren't still revisiting this as a cold case in 30 years -- actually I hope and pray that BOTH cases can be solved.

I'd like to think 3 Girl Scouts (Doris Denise, Lori and Michele) were waiting for Taylor and Skyla when they arrived and that right now there is a big ol' bunch of giggly, silly angels having a sleepover - halos askew, pillow fighting with fluffy clouds and painting each other's faces with stardust.

My Opinion

[ArizonaGiGi]

[quote=FlowerChild;2308249]I thought of the Girl Scout murders the SECOND I heard about Taylor and Skyla - both such a senseless, cruel fate for innocent girls. And 31 years later we still have no resolution or motive in that case ...or this one.


I'd like to think 3 Girl Scouts (Doris Denise, Lori and Michele) were waiting for Taylor and Skyla when they arrived and that right now there is a big ol' bunch of giggly, silly angels having a sleepover - halos askew, pillow fighting with fluffy clouds and painting each other's faces with stardust




I hope so too Flower!

[cloudajo]

MUSKOGEE (June 19)
Nearly 300 are arrested in sweep for fugitives
The U.S. Marshal Service (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=U.S.+Marshals+Service&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION) has made 290 arrests in a sweep for fugitives in eastern Oklahoma.


Marshals reported Wednesday that 493 warrants were cleared last week during a five-day sweep in 11 Oklahoma counties. The targets of this sweep were violent offenders, gang members and sex offenders. Among those arrested were 108 people wanted on narcotics charges, 14 wanted on weapons violations and four noncompliant sexual offenders.

http://newsok.com/crime-and-court-briefs/article/3259328/undefined?pg=1

[Littledeer]

Welcome SoonerFan,, teeone and GideonsTrumpet!!!!!! :)

I look forward to reading all of your posts. SoonerFan, I am sorry to hear of your loss. We are looking forward to hearing what you have to say on the "local" front.

[Littledeer]

Bringing forward MissHolmes family tree for those who want easier access and for new posters who might not have read all the previous threads.

Originally Posted by MissHolmes http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2302509#post2302509)
The family tree has been partially updated. I will be working on it throughout the day.

http://placker.tribalpages.com/tribe...rand=767200765 (http://placker.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=placker&view=9&rand=767200765)
Stars added to the front of the name have been added to note they may not be in the
proper place in the tree. But it did seem necessary to add them at this time.

Thanks to those who have sent me additional information :blowkiss:
Please continue to send me any info you may have to add.

Please NOTE: MissHolmes has had to password protect the family tree due to circumstances. Please pm her for the password.

[Littledeer]

HAVE YOU SEEN THIS PERSON?

POI:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/SeriouslySearching/POI1.jpg

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366464,00.html

[Littledeer]

Thanks Windchime for the new thread!!!!!

:blowkiss::blowkiss:

p.s. What are the requirements for a forum?? (hint hint) LOL

[cloudajo]

This article is older (from June 11), but sad.


<snip>
In such a small school, the teachers and administrators wear many hats. Chancey (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Dusty+Chancey&CATEGORY=PERSON) drives the bus.

At five minutes to 8 each morning, he would pull to a stop on the rural road in front of Placker's house. Amid all the pain, this memory makes him laugh.

"Taylor would pop out of the door and come flying down the hill,” he said. "She would slow just enough for me to let her know if it was OK to cross the road. Then she would continue flying down the hill so fast that she would have to go past the bus to stop and then circle back.

"Every day she came through the door of that bus, she had a smile on her face.” <snip>

<snip>
Bryan Smith (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Bryan+Smith&CATEGORY=PERSON), 13, shared about how Placker and Whitaker (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Jade+Whitaker&CATEGORY=PERSON) never caused trouble. "Taylor was the smartest in the whole class,” he said. "And I remember Skyla was always laughing and always had a smile on her face. If you look at her pictures, she always had a smile.” <snip>

http://newsok.com/article/3255838/?pg=1

[Littledeer]

cloudajo:

That is so sad to read! I can even visualize Taylor running to the bus. Sounds like both girls were happy and enjoyed life.

I would love to have a few minutes alone with the perp and/or perps that so senselessly took their lives. Needless, to say there might not be any need for a trial if that happened though.

But I'll settle for the DP or life behind :behindbar with NO chance of parole.

[Littledeer]

I agree with the poster and/or posters that the reason it's so quiet from LE is because they don't want to jeopardize what information they have so far and I do believe they have mostly what they need but need further confirmation on a lead or two.

Here's hoping that today an arrest is made!!

I hate having to go to work and not know what is going on with this case during the day!! :boohoo:

[cloudajo]

cloudajo:

That is so sad to read! I can even visualize Taylor running to the bus. Sounds like both girls were happy and enjoyed life.

I would love to have a few minutes alone with the perp and/or perps that so senselessly took their lives. Needless, to say there might not be any need for a trial if that happened though.

But I'll settle for the DP or life behind :behindbar with NO chance of parole.

Me too!

[cloudajo]

Not sure if anyone is reading this forum, but there is some interesting posts in between a lot of bickering and nonsense.

Recent post from someone listed as being in Blocker, OK:

"maybe they need to go interview the owners of interstate deisel. Im sure they could tell them alot of things they are looking to find out. maybe the old man on 3rd street should have not taken advantage of his daughter kindness or miss took it for stupidity. maybe ruby jean should step up to the plate and tell what she really knows."

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p50

HFTM forum then did some research on this:
Interstate Diesel
9340 Hornbeam Rd
Henryetta, OK 74437
Owner: Roy Walcher

Then speculating that perhaps "old man on 3rd st" may be Roy Gasaway, who lives with his wife Ruby on 3rd St in Weleetka.

Could be nonsense but it stuck out to me.

[Littledeer]

Bringing forward a nice recap done by FlowerChild for any new posters.

Shortly after the pair left, Taylor's grandfather and her guardian called Paschal-Placker's cell phone, trying to get them to come back. When the call went unanswered, he went looking for them. About a half mile north of the house, he found both girls on the side of the road.
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=56421

The bodies of two young girls shot to death near the small town of Weleetka in Okfuskee County were discovered by the grandfather of one of the girl's, along a dirt road the two best friends used dozens of times to play on and walk to sleepovers, according to grieving family members

To know Taylor was to love her, her grandfather said. She was the big-hearted girl who rescued helpless turtles crawling in the middle of the road and wanted to become a forensic scientist, like on the TV shows, said Peter Placker, who said he raised Taylor like she was his daughter even though he was her biological grandparent.

She was home-schooled until the family moved to Weleetka, located about 70 miles south of Tulsa.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/oklahom....2.744672.html (http://wcbstv.com/topstories/oklahoma.girls.shot.2.744672.html)

Skyla had been spending the night at Taylor's house, and the two had decided to take a walk along the dirt road to the bridge over Bad Creek. It was something both girls had done many times before, and the bridge was only about a quarter of a mile from Taylor's house, where she lived with her grandfather and legal guardian, Peter Placker. When the girls failed to return home in a timely manner, Placker called Taylor's cell phone but got no answer. Mildly concerned by the lack of response, Placker set out on foot to locate the two girls. "He got 200 to 300 yards north of the home and found the girls on the side of the road," OSBI special agent Ben Rosser told Adaeveningnews.com (http://www.adaeveningnews.com/). "Both girls had been shot multiple times. Both girls were dead at the scene. At that time, he (Placker) took a cell phone from one of the girls and made a 9-1-1 telephone call to notify the authorities."
http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_...ma-invest.html (http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/06/oklahoma-invest.html)


Taylor's grandfather found their bodies after his wife got no answer when she called Taylor's cellular phone. The girls were sleeping over at Taylor's house and had decided to take a walk down the desolate road Sunday afternoon.
http://www.legacy.com/Can/Obituaries...onId=111379597 (http://www.legacy.com/Can/Obituaries.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonId=111379597)


Wednesday, Joe Mosher (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Joe+Mosher&CATEGORY=PERSON), Taylor's great uncle, said the family is distraught and not interested in talking to the media.
http://newsok.com/for-slain-weleetka...?tm=1213280045 (http://newsok.com/for-slain-weleetka-girls-kin-pain-keeps-coming/article/3256335/?tm=1213280045)

[Littledeer]

cloudajo:

Thanks for the topix link!!! I looked for hours last night for this site!! Glad you found it. Although I take most posts with a grain of salt, there are times when some useful information has been posted.

[christine2448]

I understand asking the question of the timing of the call, but what is the reason to send them the links to our threads? I know I have had to be gone for the past couple of days, but did something occur that warrants their attention? I don't have time to try to figure this out, so could someone please tell me what is going on?! We don't normally send links to Sheriff's Departments unless we have some definitive proof of something. As I have tried to keep up, I haven't seen any valid reason for them to read well over 100 pages of posts involving speculation and theories here.

NoZ, I think that is a bit misleading tho and also maybe a simple link would suffice instead of an entire page we have seen. :) Especially since Christine asked the OCSD to read through this mess. (I still have no idea why she did tho?! Anyone?!)

I didn't know that we usually don't send LE links to our threads....I always include links to our discussions when communicating with them. I am sorry you seem to disapprove with the way I am handling things. I have no problem with them reading here, I welcome it. That is exactly why we mods/admin work so hard to keep them cleaned up and on topic.

[SewingDeb]

Welcome to our new posters.

SoonerFan, thank you for any news you bring us. I am so sorry about the death in your family.

[SuziQ]

Good morning to all new members.

Littledeer, thanks for bringing over that info.

[Claycat]

Actually, Christine, I think it was a good idea! This place is like a think tank. We might have come up with something LE hasn't even thought of.

[SewingDeb]

I agree ClayCat. If I were LE, I would be reading here on whichever case I was working on.

[oceanblueeyes]

I just signed up-but I like WebSleuths and hope to stick around. Sorry if I come "out" of left field-but here is what struck me about the Weleetka killings. The first thing was WHY the father or grandfather went looking after 30 minutes. It was a Sunday afternoon and they claimed it was not unusual for the girls to walk that far. 30 minutes is not that long-if you are in a relaxed country setting. Even not answering a phone, I have to wonder why the grand mother was calling. I wondered if he got a phone call-even a call and hang up. Some sign a vendetta was just perfected on his family. THEN I could see a hop in the car and go check on the kids.

I would want to see his incoming calls. I wanted to know what the old man did for a living? They mentioned they moved in the country to be safer-which conflicts with the next comment "there are so many meth labs out here." If I was upset-I would not be throwing out conjecture..I did not get it. Number two observation, they were a LOT of bikers at Taylors funeral. They stood tall with resolve-so this seemed odd.

The crimes were so clear cut cruel-it is the show of power-the ultimate show of power, however sick that truly is. Not pedophile-they are typically after one, and not into killing (usually..) And the bad check writer (GREAT WORK) someone here posted, is not really a violent deal--and we have to wonder if a jail record is not a requirement for anyone out there--BUT the Bandidos dudes someone in here suggested makes PERFECT sense. It seems more likely pay back for a witness - gang related. If true, SURE they are going to say it was an American Indian and General Custard was with him!

If the mob just killed my family-and I could be next, I sure would not be talking Italy-I would be talking Alaska or Siberia. Fear is what will probably keep this case from being solved. Really, how many Indians own a white Ford or chevy Truck in even an hour radius. Either just a few, or they are right near reservation-so plenty. That Federal come down on a Placker just sounds like it has sooo much to do with this. Another person here rightly mentioned Taylor lived around some dangerous people. I saw no Bikers at Shyla's funeral. And I am NOT saying Bikers are bad people-but you can bet they will handle this. Another reason the police probably are going to be led all around on this one. After days of thinking about the WHY? It seems real clear with the Fed set up thing, someone may have sang, and someone may have wanted to prove a cold point. Notice no one went and just did the old man in? That was for "pain" and effect-and to show perverted example.

Welcome GideonsTrumpet!

If Taylor and Skyla left home around 4:30 it was longer than 30 minutes before he went to look for them. Skyla's mother didn't even call Taylor's mom until 5:08 pm and then they first tried to call Taylor on her cell phone, not go and look for her but to call her and tell them to come home. I am sure like most moms Taylor's mom wanted to make sure that Skyla had everything she brought all packed up and ready to go when her mother arrived there. I know I always told my children to come back home if one of their friend's parents were on the way.

I don't find the bikers at the funeral odd. Bikers also can grieve about the loss of life and arrive to show their respects just like anyone else. They knew LE was there gathering the guest book at each funeral so they didn't seem fidgety about that at all.

And yes they were extremely cruel and cold murders but unfortunately we see extremely cruel and heinous murders way too often in our country.

From what the police has stated the witnesses they have are not affiliated with any of these families. I think the guy standing by the truck at almost the same time of the murders looks like the composite sketch which certainly could be an American Indian. I would think the citizens around there are use to seeing Indians. It seemed there were quite a few at the funerals.

Taylor may have lived around people with criminal elements but I was reading this morning on InSessions and it seems that maybe Skyla's family also may have had people in her own family that are in the criminal justice system.

As far as I have read where Peter Placker's brother, Joe, was involved in the Federal charge, I didn't see anywhere that Peter Placker was ever tied to that, not even by the Feds, unless I missed it. Since Joe got a lessor sentence, I do think he most likely agreed to rollover on the others but then Joe Sr. has his own children and I am sure grandchildren where if any retaliation was going to be made it would be done to one of his own rather than a niece.

imoo

[believe09]

Hey now, I would think that even simple speculation can be a valuable tool, since the debate process we engage in tends to weed out the weak vs the strong evidence and scenarios. JMO...Imagine having to run through all of the scenarios yourself vs having 12K available to do the work for you lol...Kudos Christine2448!!!

[SuziQ]

Thanks Windchime for the new thread!!!!!

:blowkiss::blowkiss:

p.s. What are the requirements for a forum?? (hint hint) LOL

Lots and lots of begging! I was hoping that an arrest would have been made before a forum was needed. It would be good to have a forum to keep straight the family connections and rap sheets. That was alot of work to gather it up and make sense of it. I hope our good sleuthers who took on that task are keeping track of it somewhere so we don't lose it.

[oceanblueeyes]

Skyla does have a brother listed in her obit. It says brother, Edward Gordon, Columbus, Kansas...


http://www.joplinglobe.com/neo_sek/...=secondarystory

http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/lo...ml?start:int=15

Baxter Springs is 16 miles from Columbus.



Just thought it interesting especially since there has been so much discussions about family ties. I had never heard of this case and the victim, Richardson 's hometown was about 40 miles away from where I live.

OOPS let me try the links again.
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=edward+gordon%2C+baxter+springs%2C+kansas&meta=

http://www.joplinglobe.com/neo_sek/local_story_009195001.html?keyword=secondarystory

imoo

[MissHolmes]

Good Morning all and to our new posters.
I will be working on the tree throughout the day adding more info.

Here is a new article about the community:

http://newsok.com/weleetkes-no-dot-on-a-map-but-still-a-community/article/3259305/
Weleetka's no dot on a map, but still a community

[Dalaipardon]

thanks all for the warm welcome.

I, too, thought of the GS murders. I grew up hearing lots about Lori Farmer because I was just a few years younger and my mom thought I looked like her. My mom has never gotten over that crime. At least in that case I think most people are pretty settled with the idea that Hart committed the crimes (am I wrong on this? Is there something new?). We didn't see justice, but IMO it's still better than not knowing.

In case anyone is wondering, I would say that seeing someone with NA heritage would not necessarily be that unusual for people in Weleetka. It would probably be more unsual for them to just see someone they don't recognize period on that road. Many people, even those who identify as "white", have NA ancestry and that county is pretty diverse (as is much of OK - people always seem surprised by that). Clearview is a historical black town, Okemah was a white sundown town until the 60's/70's or so, and Weleetka is kinda' a mixed bag of whites and NAs and all degrees in between. It's mostly "white" though, and I know there is probably some degree of racism among some of the people (sometimes even by people who have heritage of the group they are racist against - people just don't know their own history).

So, this brings me to my point, does anyone else think that truckload of boys who had been shooting down by the creek was cleared as suspects awfully quickly? It seems like the cops just knew it wasn't them and I'm wondering if it's because this description of the NA man was offered up so quickly.
I'm not trying to blame those boys, but I just hope this mysterious NA man in the white truck doesn't live in the same town as Susan Smith's black man with the stocking cap.

[SeriouslySearching]

I didn't know that we usually don't send LE links to our threads....I always include links to our discussions when communicating with them. I am sorry you seem to disapprove with the way I am handling things. I have no problem with them reading here, I welcome it. That is exactly why we mods/admin work so hard to keep them cleaned up and on topic.No, sorry...I guess I didn't realize you send them all when you communicate. (Guess I should start doing that as I send them to specific posts I think are applicable to the discussion of the communication to keep them from wading through is all.)

It worries me that LE could put it all on a backburner instead of taking us seriously when we do have things to send them which we feel are pertinent. I do think there are a lot of good things we have come up with, but I think they are ahead of us on those fronts as they have all the information at their fingertips. I guess you never know what they could be missing tho as we have seen many times before. Hopefully, they will actually take time to scan through it.

I don't mind them reading here! I just haven't been able to keep up and wondered if something came up that I missed completely that warranted sending the information. I guess the answer to that is "no" then?

I also suppose I am just frustrated with the slow progress and the way they are so quiet about things. Also, that I can't be here to follow this closely! I want them to solve this and bring the POI/POS in. Sorry if my frustration plus being exhausted gets the better of me lately.

[TeeOne]

I'd like to think 3 Girl Scouts (Doris Denise, Lori and Michele) were waiting for Taylor and Skyla when they arrived and that right now there is a big ol' bunch of giggly, silly angels having a sleepover - halos askew, pillow fighting with fluffy clouds and painting each other's faces with stardust.

My Opinion

FlowerChild, What a beautiful image you gave me - thanks!

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome:)

[tamfish]

So, this brings me to my point, does anyone else think that truckload of boys who had been shooting down by the creek was cleared as suspects awfully quickly? It seems like the cops just knew it wasn't them and I'm wondering if it's because this description of the NA man was offered up so quickly.
I'm not trying to blame those boys, but I just hope this mysterious NA man in the white truck doesn't live in the same town as Susan Smith's black man with the stocking cap.

I would imagine that if they were cleared, it was because the guns/bullets used obviously didn't match.

[oceanblueeyes]

thanks all for the warm welcome.

So, this brings me to my point, does anyone else think that truckload of boys who had been shooting down by the creek was cleared as suspects awfully quickly? It seems like the cops just knew it wasn't them and I'm wondering if it's because this description of the NA man was offered up so quickly.
I'm not trying to blame those boys, but I just hope this mysterious NA man in the white truck doesn't live in the same town as Susan Smith's black man with the stocking cap.

I think that is highly unlikely in this case. In Susan Smith's case she is the only one that ever said she saw the black man. From what OSBI has said several witnesses have now come forth saying they saw the man that day.

imoo

[Dalaipardon]

But how does LE know which guns the boys had access to? Just from their word? One could assume that being rural hunter types, they might have access to quite a few guns.

[Dalaipardon]

And who are these witnesses? Do they have any connection to the boys? Are the boys included in those witnesses?

I'm not saying this is necessarily what I believe happened. I don't really have a strong theory, but it's something I've been thinking about.

It seems the boys were cleared almost immediately.

[Garnan]

MUSKOGEE (June 19)
Nearly 300 are arrested in sweep for fugitives
The U.S. Marshal Service (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=U.S.+Marshals+Service&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION) has made 290 arrests in a sweep for fugitives in eastern Oklahoma.


Marshals reported Wednesday that 493 warrants were cleared last week during a five-day sweep in 11 Oklahoma counties. The targets of this sweep were violent offenders, gang members and sex offenders. Among those arrested were 108 people wanted on narcotics charges, 14 wanted on weapons violations and four noncompliant sexual offenders.

http://newsok.com/crime-and-court-briefs/article/3259328/undefined?pg=1

Maybe one of these people will know something, if this is a drug related crime and speak up to save their own behind. I sure hope so. I am not feeling very positive about this case at all. I really believed they would have someone in custody by now.

[oceanblueeyes]

And who are these witnesses? Do they have any connection to the boys? Are the boys included in those witnesses?

I'm not saying this is necessarily what I believe happened. I don't really have a strong theory, but it's something I've been thinking about.

It seems the boys were cleared almost immediately.

From what Brown has said these witnesses seem to be outside of the family and have no connection. Very well could be neighbors or regular people that travel the road often to and from their own community.

imoo

[murdershewrote]

If the family just moved recently to be "safer" and then these girls are murdered in cold blood...it just doesn't seem like coincidence to me. It wouldn't surprise me if the family (or someone in the family) had received a threat of some kind or felt some kind of danger, enough to move. I just don't see this as a random killing. What could be worse to do to somebody than kill their child? Although I can't imagine them being in something so deep as to bring it to that level, I guess it doesn't take much these days. I really am leaning toward this being planned out.

[Albert18]

What is their motive?

To me this looks like it was personal.

If the POI was part of the group and he is in his mid 30's and they were interrupted by traffic on the road, that doesn't sound like a thrill kill to me.

What about druggies or a meth lab or the girls saw something? This was a busy road and the girls were very close to the house, why wouldn't they have grabbed the girls and killed them in a secluded area.

I think this is one of the biggest clues. The girls were killed where they were walking on a busy road, on a Sunday afternoon, and the crime was apparently interrupted by traffic. Yet the girls were not grabbed and transported. That sounds like a message killing to me. They wanted them found right there, not far from their doorstep. It looks like an in your face type of crime. And it was obvious overkill.

Another thing to remember is the killers could have very easily gone straight to the house and killed all four people. So it probably doesn't involve Peter.

My guess is the elephant in the room is the rough crowd the Placker's extended family runs around with.

And the reason for the killings could be something stupid. Look back at the Clutter family in the In Cold Blood murders. Somebody spreads a false rumor about the Clutter's keeping a lot of money in their house in a safe and this FALSE rumor gets four Clutters murdered.

[oceanblueeyes]

If Edward Gordon is the brother of Skyla then I find it very interesting that he plead to 2nd Degree Murder and may have to testify in an upcoming trial in July when one of the co-defendants trial is to begin.

The first co-defendant got life +68 years.

imoo

[gaia227]

And who are these witnesses? Do they have any connection to the boys? Are the boys included in those witnesses?

I'm not saying this is necessarily what I believe happened. I don't really have a strong theory, but it's something I've been thinking about.

It seems the boys were cleared almost immediately.


Dalai - I feel the same way. A truckload of boys with adrenaline and new levels of testosterone pumping through their bodies with guns makes me very nervous. I proposed way back on thread one that perhaps one of the girls were shot by accident and then it an attempt to cover it was made by shooting the other girl (witness) and then by decision or simply by adrenaline they shot them both several times(this was quickly dismissed) but I still think it could be a possibility - anything is at this point. OR they came across the girls and shot them for the hell of it. Young boys when they get into groups will do things they would not normally do. If this is a random crime (the 10,000 question)The overkill on the girls makes me think of a young males, probably on a drug like meth.
We have to have faith (hard to do) in LE that they have good reason to have cleared these boys so quickly and didn't overlook them as suspects because they go wrapped up in the witness sightings of the NA man.

[Dalaipardon]

From what Brown has said these witnesses seem to be outside of the family and have no connection. Very well could be neighbors or regular people that travel the road often to and from their own community.


Exactly! They could be related to some of the boys, for all we know.

I will assume for now that LE is checking out all of these angles.

I have to logout now so any non-response is nothing other than I need to go.:)

[MsBashterd]

Good Morning Guy's :blowkiss:

This is a little off track from the sleuthing that is going on in these threads but I thought a little something to lighten your hearts as it did mine might be in order this morning.

This tragedy has weighed heavily on my mind and heart since the beginning my therapy is my flower garden so to the garden I went. As I was pulling weeds I stepped back and noticed that two of my daisy plants had come back strong this year and very large the front on being a Black-eyed Susan and the back one being a very large very bright yellow both getting ready for full bloom. Then all of the sudden into my mind popped the diagram of the angels and how they fell on the side of the road (sorry I don't know who posted it to give credit) and I realized my daisy's were in almost the exact same position in my garden, a wave of sadness took over. I shook my head and decided I had to get away so to the garden shop I went, there I found the cutest large ceramic turtle with two girl angels sitting on his back. Well for one I began to cry then I picked it up and payed and made my way back home. I put it in my garden in between the two daisy's. I said a prayer for the angels and their families and vowed I would never forget EVER. I went back to pulling weeds as I stood up I looked to the turtle and two very large and very beautiful butterflies one was blue and gold the other bright yellow were sitting on the tops of the angels on the turtle. I stood and stared and the feeling came over me that those two angels are with us and will stay with us till the end and their murderous animals are brought to justice. The feeling of joy and happiness filled me in a time were I have felt alot of sadness. Ever since that day whenever I come and go from my home I say good morning and good night to the memory of those little angels that live on in my garden.

I hope that I could give you all a little smile this morning maybe lighten your hearts a little as it did mine.

[Garnan]

One of the theories that I have seen posted several times is that the girls were shot to send a message to the parents/relatives of one of the girls to entice them not to testify regarding some criminal element.

If something like this happened in my family, it would give me even more incentive to testify. Once your child is dead, what would happen to your will to live? I think I would feel more like, I'm going to testify, go ahead and kill me, I don't care, I've nothing left to loose.

Threatening to kill a family member would carry more weight that actually committing the act, imo.

[T-Rex]

What a beautiful story, MsB!

[Claycat]

What a lovely tribute, MsB! :blowkiss:

[RoseRed]

If the family just moved recently to be "safer" and then these girls are murdered in cold blood...it just doesn't seem like coincidence to me. It wouldn't surprise me if the family (or someone in the family) had received a threat of some kind or felt some kind of danger, enough to move. I just don't see this as a random killing. What could be worse to do to somebody than kill their child? Although I can't imagine them being in something so deep as to bring it to that level, I guess it doesn't take much these days. I really am leaning toward this being planned out.

But they did not just move recently. One of Taylors school photo says 2006 so that can't be recently. or at least I would not consider that recently.

[RoseRed]

From what Brown has said these witnesses seem to be outside of the family and have no connection. Very well could be neighbors or regular people that travel the road often to and from their own community.

imoo

The witnesses have no connection to the families BUT do they have a connection to the boys in the pickup?

On topix/Weleetka forum some are saying one of those boys had problems with one of the girls and had even threatened to kill her.
Are these rumors deserve less suspicion that the Placker family? I feel all need to be investigated not just Taylors family. Why dismiss these boys so easily and keep plowing away at Taylors family?

[MissHolmes]

I find it odd that the Oklahoma Dept of Corrections website has been down since at least last night.

[MeoW333]

The witnesses have no connection to the families BUT do they have a connection to the boys in the pickup?

On topix/Weleetka forum some are saying one of those boys had problems with one of the girls and had even threatened to kill her.
Are these rumors deserve less suspicion that the Placker family? I feel all need to be investigated not just Taylors family. Why dismiss these boys so easily and keep plowing away at Taylors family?

I've been wondering this as well, since the first time the boys in the pickup were mentioned. There was 5 boys in the pickup? Correct me if i am wrong. So how many in the community may be related to these boys and could possibly cover for them.

Also there was an article that mentioned that Taylor's grandparents had left there house as there was a prowler or someone outside so they had called LE. It could be someone local or (at least familiar with the area) trying to create a diversion from who the real killer is or to scare the grandparents into not talking if they think they may know something. I would like to hear more about this, if the grandparents heard someone outside, did they hear a car drive away as well, or no?

Also someone brought up about learning more on Skylar's family, which i think is an excellent idea, as then more angles will be covered for these angels.

[FlowerChild]

Teenaged boys doing "target" shooting usually do so with rifles, not handguns. People living out in the "country" do often have guns in their homes, but not normally a bunch of HAND guns - usually a gun rack filled with hunting type firearms - rifles, shotguns etc.

I think the boys were cleared because they were still "target shooting" when the girls were killed and hadn't left that location - target shooting in the company of other unrelated people who could testify that they could NOT have killed the girls. We have no idea what the boys testified to (if anything) - but my thought is that they testified to seeing the girls at the bridge and who was there - not to seeing the POI in the location where the girls were killed.

If this was the work of a teenaged boy I think he was alone - not riding around in a truck full of kids. Too many co-conspirators (all of them young) to keep something like this a secret for long. And the handgun thing just says "adult" to me. Not common for a teenaged boy (or boys) to have not one, but TWO handguns in the vehicle - one a semi-auotmatic. If the girls had been shot with a rifle (or two) I would lean more toward a local and perhaps a teenager - but the handgun thing doesn't mesh with that theory. Every third truck in OK has a gun rack with a shotgun or rifle on it - being shot with a rifle or shotgun says local, impulsive, mistake, accident, pissed off etc. But this is two HANDGUNS - to me that says something different.

And do teenaged boys often know about "kill shots" - and would a teenager or teenagers have had the stones to get out of the car and shoot two bleeding, gasping, spasming dying girls at point blank range while standing or kneeling OVER their bodies, looking at their faces as they died? That's pretty hardcore and it ain't no pretty video game graphic. A scene like this makes hardened LE officers sick (literally) - and a teenager? Hmmm, I am just not feeling that. I am feeling adult male not new to killing/shooting - at least for the 9mm shots or the kill shots to the head.

But who knows, It's just my take on the scene and evidence and my "gut feeling".

My Opinion

[TeeOne]

Mrs B, That did make me smile, what a great story!

Getting back to the boys; I agree it seemed as they were dismissed too quickly. I remember thinking, why would they not suspect them...they were shooting guns and it was a gang of boys.

[MeoW333]

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=b777db52-d923-42f6-bc6f-8b25f149eda6

"FOX23 crews experienced another unsettling situation near Taylor’s home last night.

As our crew was leaving, they saw three sheriff's deputies and a state trooper speeding down the road.

They parked in front of the house, searching the woods around the home and down the road with flashlights and patrol cars. During the search the family left the home for the night.

Deputies say the family called 911 after hearing someone sneaking around the home. Someone even says they saw a shadow outside. Deputies did not find anyone, but say they might have gotten away before they arrived."

[MeoW333]

If Edward Gordon is the brother of Skyla then I find it very interesting that he plead to 2nd Degree Murder and may have to testify in an upcoming trial in July when one of the co-defendants trial is to begin.

The first co-defendant got life +68 years.

imoo

Ocean, do you know where we could find more info on this?

[sweetheart29]

In the state of Oklahoma you have to be 21 to own a handgun. Yes teen age boys that grew up hunting would know where and how to shoot to kill. I would think if it was a hit there would have been only one shot to the chest or head. Why so many shots ? The more you shoot the more noise you make. If you dont want to get caught you don't make a bunch of noisy. . I know when my husband outside target praticing that I can tell which gun he shot by the sound of it. Handgun are going to sound diffrent that a rifle being shot. I missed where it said they where shot with handguns. What type of guns were they shot.

[MeoW333]

Becker sentenced to life plus 68 months (http://www.morningsun.net/stories/031508/loc_258023677.shtml) Mar 15, 2008
Also on Friday, Becker's codefendant, Edward Gordon who accepted a plea deal in exchange for his cooperation against Graham and Becker pled no contest to second degree murder and was found guilty. He will be sentenced in late July. (SunOnline)



http://www.joplinglobe.com/neo_sek/local_story_317223338.html

"Edward Gordon, 20, of Baxter Springs, agreed to plead no contest to an amended charge of second-degree murder. The plea agreement was filed Tuesday in Cherokee County District Court."

Is this the same Edward that may be Skylar's brother in this article?

[KR2tonenow]

BUT the Bandidos dudes someone in here suggested makes PERFECT sense. It seems more likely pay back for a witness - gang related. If true, SURE they are going to say it was an American Indian and General Custard was with him[/b]![/B]

If the mob just killed my family-and I could be next, I sure would not be talking Italy-I would be talking Alaska or Siberia. Fear is what will probably keep this case from being solved. Really, how many Indians own a white Ford or chevy Truck in even an hour radius. Either just a few, or they are right near reservation-so plenty. That Federal come down on a Placker just sounds like it has sooo much to do with this. Another person here rightly mentioned Taylor lived around some dangerous people. I saw no Bikers at Shyla's funeral. And I am NOT saying Bikers are bad people-but you can bet they will handle this. Another reason the police probably are going to be led all around on this one. After days of thinking about the WHY? It seems real clear with the Fed set up thing, someone may have sang, and someone may have wanted to prove a cold point. Notice no one went and just did the old man in? That was for "pain" and effect-and to show perverted example.

Welcome and I agree! Lips will kept quite tight in regards to protecting their own. This case will go cold. The NA was probably just that, "a witness", and the only outsider on that road, on a lazy Sunday.

It still doesn't sit right with me that Peter (GrPA) went "looking" for the girls. Give me a break, why the urgency to "find" them unless, as you said someone tipped him off.

Thanks!

[gardenmom]

MsB, that is very sweet. It's funny how we can get therapy out of our gardens. I have a lily that one of our fellow websleuthers gave me, that is in honor of Danielle VanDam, who was murdered awhile back. This is the first year for it in my garden, and she hasn't bloomed yet, but everytime I see it I think of her. The other thing is ladybugs remind me of Laci Peterson. I believe I read it in a book about her, but someone else associated ladybugs with her. Now everytime I see one I call it a "lacibug". I would love to see a pic of your garden turtle if you know how to post it.

[Dalaipardon]

If this was the work of a teenaged boy I think he was alone - not riding around in a truck full of kids. Too many co-conspirators (all of them young) to keep something like this a secret for long. And the handgun thing just says "adult" to me. Not common for a teenaged boy (or boys) to have not one, but TWO handguns in the vehicle - one a semi-auotmatic. If the girls had been shot with a rifle (or two) I would lean more toward a local and perhaps a teenager - but the handgun thing doesn't mesh with that theory. Every third truck in OK has a gun rack with a shotgun or rifle on it - being shot with a rifle or shotgun says local, impulsive, mistake, accident, pissed off etc. But this is two HANDGUNS - to me that says something different.

I agree about the too many co-conspirators to keep it quiet for long (unless they are all extremely close-knit, like brothers). I do know there are handguns in the area. I have seen them and there are people who bring them to events like the Boley and Clearview rodeos (really not trying to scare anyone off of these two events, which are loads of fun, but there is some gang-banging involved). Handguns are everywhere, IMO.
My cousin is an okie bred and spread, bona fide, southern-fried good ol' boy and he has been known to shoot snakes with a handgun.
I thought at least one of the guns was a shotgun? Didn't they talk about finding shell casings? Are there other guns that produce shell casings? I am the non-gun person in my family.

Anyway, OSBI agents are saying they believe the witness at this point, so I defer to them since they certainly have more info. than us.

It's still worth considering, though.

[tamfish]

Where has it been released that the weapons used were HANDGUNS?

[FlowerChild]

Welcome and I agree! Lips will kept quite tight in regards to protecting their own. This case will go cold. The NA was probably just that, "a witness", and the only outsider on that road, on a lazy Sunday.

It still doesn't sit right with me that Peter (GrPA) went "looking" for the girls. Give me a break, why the urgency to "find" them unless, as you said someone tipped him off.

Thanks!
Skyla's Mother was driving over the pick up Skyla - perhaps she wanted to get home to go the Church or do something else family related. Was she just supposed the sit at the Placker's House until the girls felt like coming back home?

Taylor didn't answer her phone - perhaps Skyla ALSO didn't answer her phone - repeated calls were made to the girls and they didn't answer. If you phoned your 13 year old while she was away from home (without an adult) and she didn't answer or call you back, would you be concerned? Especially if they ALWAYS answered or called back immediately before?

Going to find the girls and hurry them along becuase Skyla's Mother was on her way to get Skyla doesn't seem at all odd to me - and it especially doesn't after knowing that the girls didn't answer the calls. I imagine GPa was a little concerned because the girls didn't answer or call him back but more likely he was a little upset - thinking they were poking along, maybe yacking on the phone to some friend and lost track of time and were "ignoring" his calls on purpose. Maybe he thought Skyla was "dragging her feet" becuase she wasn't ready to go home yet and by ignoring the phone calls thought she might eek out more time with Taylor?

In ANY of those situations, It's totally logical to me that GPa would have set out to "escort" the girls home and get Skyla ready for her Mom's arrival. What other recourse did GPa have other than sitting around (with Skyla's Mom) waiting for the girls to mosey in whenever they pleased.

And if GPa DID get a "warning" then why didn't he leave the house with a gun, baseball bat (some sort of weapon) and his CELL PHONE? And why walk if he thought the girls might be hurt on in danger? Why didn't he ask his wife to call for help?

I think GPa knew NOTHING and got blindsided with the bodies. And I am certain the 911 call bears that out - a 911 call that was made on one of the girl's phones he found at the scene.

My Opinion

[Kellee]

Welcome and I agree! Lips will kept quite tight in regards to protecting their own. This case will go cold. The NA was probably just that, "a witness", and the only outsider on that road, on a lazy Sunday.

It still doesn't sit right with me that Peter (GrPA) went "looking" for the girls. Give me a break, why the urgency to "find" them unless, as you said someone tipped him off.

Thanks!

IIRC, the grandfather went looking for the girls because Skyla's mother had called about picking her up. Grandpa tried to call Taylor on the phone to relay the information to her and Skyla but could not get an answer.

I don't think there was anything sinister behind him going to look for the girls.

[MsBashterd]

MsB, that is very sweet. It's funny how we can get therapy out of our gardens. I have a lily that one of our fellow websleuthers gave me, that is in honor of Danielle VanDam, who was murdered awhile back. This is the first year for it in my garden, and she hasn't bloomed yet, but everytime I see it I think of her. The other thing is ladybugs remind me of Laci Peterson. I believe I read it in a book about her, but someone else associated ladybugs with her. Now everytime I see one I call it a "lacibug". I would love to see a pic of your garden turtle if you know how to post it.:blowkiss:


Absolutely I thought I would wait for the Daisy's to go into bloom (I helped with a little go go juice for them last weekend) the reason I went to the garden shop moved the planter and saw the statue of the turtle, I like to think it was fate. I will post a pic soon. I always try and put thing (especially prenials) that have a special meaning and from now on that little section forever belongs to those precious angels.

[KR2tonenow]

Skyla does have a brother listed in her obit. It says brother, Edward Gordon, Columbus, Kansas...


http://www.joplinglobe.com/neo_sek/...=secondarystory

http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/lo...ml?start:int=15

Baxter Springs is 16 miles from Columbus.



Just thought it interesting especially since there has been so much discussions about family ties. I had never heard of this case and the victim, Richardson 's hometown was about 40 miles away from where I live.

OOPS let me try the links again.
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=edward+gordon%2C+baxter+springs%2C+kansas&meta=

http://www.joplinglobe.com/neo_sek/local_story_009195001.html?keyword=secondarystory

imoo

Are we sure this is Skyla's brother? If so, this is opening a whole OTHER
can of worms.

[Albert18]

It still doesn't sit right with me that Peter (GrPA) went "looking" for the girls.

This bothers me too. Had he heard something earlier and dismissed it and the unanswered phone gets him to thinking?

Plus didn't Skyla's mom come from the north? She must have otherwise she would have gone to the house first. So she would be driving on the road where the girls were walking. This is leisure rural living right, that's why everybody is walking, so when Skyla's mom drives past the girls she picks them up and goes to Taylor's house and drops Taylor off and heads home.

I asked this before and nobody touched it with a 10 foot pole. Skyla's mom was going to be driving along the road the girls were walking, why did Grandpa have to go look for them?

[Albert18]

If you phoned your 13 year old while she was away from home (without an adult) and she didn't answer or call you back, would you be concerned?

But concern equals worry which equals urgency which does not equal walking.

[tamfish]

I asked this before and nobody touched it with a 10 foot pole. Skyla's mom was going to be driving along the road the girls were walking, why did Grandpa have to go look for them?

Perhaps Skyla's mom wanted her to have all of things packed up together, ready to leave immediately. So Grandpa headed out to find the girls, tell them to hurry up, Skyla's mom is on the way and she has to be ready to go when she gets there.

I know that many times when I go pick up my son I hate to be kept waiting while he wanders around looking for the shirt he lost, or the gameboy he put down somewhere, etc. etc.

I see nothing sinister at all about Grandpa going to find the girls when they wouldn't answer the cell phone.

[KR2tonenow]

This bothers me too. Had he heard something earlier and dismissed it and the unanswered phone gets him to thinking?

Plus didn't Skyla's mom come from the north? She must have otherwise she would have gone to the house first. So she would be driving on the road where the girls were walking. This is leisure rural living right, that's why everybody is walking, so when Skyla's mom drives past the girls she picks them up and goes to Taylor's house and drops Taylor off and heads home.

I asked this before and nobody touched it with a 10 foot pole. Skyla's mom was going to be driving along the road the girls were walking, why did Grandpa have to go look for them?

I remembered reading your last post on this, and I have it tucked away, with all the other theories out there. I agree. Unless there was cause for concern, that is more of a logical situation, that Skyla's mom would have driven by. But the way things are going now, both families seem to have a history with violence, so........:rolleyes:

[Busylady]

This article gives alot of detail what happened regarding Edward Gordon, I do not know if this is Skyla's brother.

http://www.joplinglobe.com/neo_sek/local_story_009195001.html?start:int=0



COLUMBUS, Kan. — The jury in a Cherokee County murder trial will begin deliberating today.
The defense rested its case Wednesday in the trial of Samuel Becker, 22, of Pittsburg. He is charged with first-degree murder in the Jan. 30, 2007, shooting death of Jamey Richardson in Baxter Springs. Becker also is charged with several other felonies, including kidnapping, aggravated battery and aggravated assault, with several alleged victims.
Richardson was a former key player for the Pittsburg State University basketball team.
The prosecution rested its case earlier Wednesday. Neither side called co-defendant Edward Gordon to testify. Gordon has an agreement with the prosecution to plead no contest to a charge of second-degree murder. The prosecution would seek a 10-year prison sentence for Gordon. The agreement requires him to testify against his co-defendants

[DeltaDawn]

Welcome and I agree! Lips will kept quite tight in regards to protecting their own. This case will go cold. The NA was probably just that, "a witness", and the only outsider on that road, on a lazy Sunday.

It still doesn't sit right with me that Peter (GrPA) went "looking" for the girls. Give me a break, why the urgency to "find" them unless, as you said someone tipped him off.

Thanks!


I think it would be quite normal after the phone call from Sykla's Mom saying that she was on her way to pick up Skyla that he would go find the girls and have Skyla there at the house. They tried to reach them on the cell and did not get an answer..so he thought he'd go get them and bring them home.

[OrdinaryLife]

I *so* disagree with any post that returns to the grandfather Skyla's mother, or any family involvement.

There was no warning. There was no reason to drive to get these two angels. There was no rush for *anything* as far as that later afternoon was concerned.

Given the gravity of these murders, the **horrific** slaying of two young girls, the area, the media.....LE is *all* over this! If any family member, extended family member, friend, or hint of foe were part of this, there would have been a whirlwind of activity and we would know about it.

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no immediate family involvement. IMVHO, of course.

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean, do you know where we could find more info on this?

There is quite a bit of information over on InSessions, Meo.

It is very interesting indeed since Skyla does have a brother from that area as it was mentioned in the obit.

imo

[FlowerChild]

I remembered reading your last post on this, and I have it tucked away, with all the other theories out there. I agree. Unless there was cause for concern, that is more of a logical situation, that Skyla's mom would have driven by. But the way things are going now, both families seem to have a history with violence, so........:rolleyes:
Do we know for sure that Skyla's Mother didn't come from the direction of the Placker house (not passing the murder scene 1st) ? And even if she might have passed the girls we have NO IDEA if GPa would have known that when he went to get the girls. She could have been driving in from EITHER direction depending on where she was coming from (ie:grocery store, errands, other child's activity etc) or what route she preferred to take. I doubt GPa thought "oh well, why bother to get Skyla here to get packed and ready - Her Mom will drive by them on their walk, pick them up and then drive here". How rude to expect Skyla's Mom to pick up her daughter on the road and then wait for her to gather up her belongings because you were too lazy to get her ready to leave. Just sitting around in front of the TV and HOPING Skyla's Mom would drive by the girls so you don't have to be bothered to be a good host or offering even the most basic consideration for the Mom's time is both extremly irresponsible and uncharateristically inconsiderate since the two girls seemed to spend a LOT of time together at each other's houses.

My Opinion

[oceanblueeyes]

This article gives alot of detail what happened regarding Edward Gordon, I do not know if this is Skyla's brother.

http://www.joplinglobe.com/neo_sek/local_story_009195001.html?start:int=0



COLUMBUS, Kan. — The jury in a Cherokee County murder trial will begin deliberating today.
The defense rested its case Wednesday in the trial of Samuel Becker, 22, of Pittsburg. He is charged with first-degree murder in the Jan. 30, 2007, shooting death of Jamey Richardson in Baxter Springs. Becker also is charged with several other felonies, including kidnapping, aggravated battery and aggravated assault, with several alleged victims.
Richardson was a former key player for the Pittsburg State University basketball team.
The prosecution rested its case earlier Wednesday. Neither side called co-defendant Edward Gordon to testify. Gordon has an agreement with the prosecution to plead no contest to a charge of second-degree murder. The prosecution would seek a 10-year prison sentence for Gordon. The agreement requires him to testify against his co-defendants

What leaped out at me is Gordon is to testify against his co-defendents and Graham's trial is to start in July, just one month after the girls were killed almost execution style. The first main co-defendant received life plus 68 years and the second co-defendent, Graham was up for his case next.

[oceanblueeyes]

Are we sure this is Skyla's brother? If so, this is opening a whole OTHER
can of worms.

This guy is 20 I think.

Is there birth records or DOBs available concerning Skyla's siblings including the brother, Ed Gordon?

Has anyone done a family tree on the Gordon/Whitaker family.

imoo

[philamena]

Good Morning all and to our new posters.
I will be working on the tree throughout the day adding more info.
SNIP


MissHolmes,
Thanks for all the time and work you're put into the family tree.:clap: It's excellent.

[MCDRAW]

I think it would be quite normal after the phone call from Sykla's Mom saying that she was on her way to pick up Skyla that he would go find the girls and have Skyla there at the house. They tried to reach them on the cell and did not get an answer..so he thought he'd go get them and bring them home.


This is what I would have done if someone's Mother called me to tell me she was on her way.

[FlowerChild]

It appears that Skyla had two half-siblings - Edward and Rosita Gordon and two full siblings (Jayme and Christina). No other Gordons are listed in the Obit, so I am assuming Skyla's Mother was divorced and remarried Skyla's Father. Skyla's Mother's name is Rose (maiden name Farrow) and Rose's parents (Jim and Claudia Farrow) live nearby (Graham). Skyla was born in Joplin Mo and most of the other family listed reside in KS or MO. Skyla just turned 11 in April

The Whitakers lived in Salem (Rural Henryetta) and Skyla attended the Graham School - a district which BTW, emcompasses 48 Square MILES - of sparsly populated rural area and still has only about 100 attending students (rest are online computer students). Taylor was the ONLY girl in the 6th grade at the school last year.

[SuziQ]

This article gives alot of detail what happened regarding Edward Gordon, I do not know if this is Skyla's brother.

http://www.joplinglobe.com/neo_sek/local_story_009195001.html?start:int=0



COLUMBUS, Kan. — The jury in a Cherokee County murder trial will begin deliberating today.
The defense rested its case Wednesday in the trial of Samuel Becker, 22, of Pittsburg. He is charged with first-degree murder in the Jan. 30, 2007, shooting death of Jamey Richardson in Baxter Springs. Becker also is charged with several other felonies, including kidnapping, aggravated battery and aggravated assault, with several alleged victims.
Richardson was a former key player for the Pittsburg State University basketball team.
The prosecution rested its case earlier Wednesday. Neither side called co-defendant Edward Gordon to testify. Gordon has an agreement with the prosecution to plead no contest to a charge of second-degree murder. The prosecution would seek a 10-year prison sentence for Gordon. The agreement requires him to testify against his co-defendants


If I'm understanding correctly, not only did Gordon plead down and sold out his associates, the safe and contents were under his watch when it went missing causing this mess to begin with. This was one nasty crime. A crime by the way which was a brutal retaliation....see the similarities yet? Obviously this group has no problem with paying people back.

[OrdinaryLife]

What retaliation? The man who died bled out after being shot in the calf, there was a safe, and drugs involved. 3 men were involved in the death of one. Deals are made all the time in many cases and it was done in this particular case.

What could possibly be the link to the murder of these 2 angels???

[strach304]

Are we sure this is Skyla's brother? If so, this is opening a whole OTHER
can of worms.


No. I remember when this crime occurred because I lived so close to Pittsburgh at the time. Even if this does turn out to be Skyla's brother that bunch was nothing but punks. Edward Gordon would be a common name I think. I do wonder why the last names are different? Step-sister and brother maybe?

Good job though Ocean. We should be looking at everything including Skyla's family dynamics. What's the situation of Skyla's home life? Step-dad? Best friends will eventually tell all. If there is a step father or BF to the mother where was he? We know Skyla's mother called her own parents first and they came right away.

[SuziQ]

What retaliation? The man who died bled out after being shot in the calf, there was a safe, and drugs involved. 3 men were involved in the death of one. Deals are made all the time in many cases and it was done in this particular case.

What could possibly be the link to the murder of these 2 angels???

And witness retaliation is becoming epidemic. Gordons (Possibly Skyla's brother)pled down in exchange for testimony and one more trial is coming up. So far one has been sentenced to life+. I don't think it's a stretch to think that Gordon would have been sent a message to shut up.

[SuziQ]

Any matching relatives or addresses for Gordon on a people search?

[FlowerChild]

If I'm understanding correctly, not only did Gordon plead down and sold out his associates, the safe and contents were under his watch when it went missing causing this mess to begin with. This was one nasty crime. A crime by the way which was a brutal retaliation....see the similarities yet? Obviously this group has no problem with paying people back.

This would make sense if Skyla and Taylor had been killed at HER home - but how would the perp - from KS, know where Skyla was that Sunday afternoon, much less that she would be out walking on the road. That would have required Skyla to be in communication with the perp (and it would have to have been online or by cell phone) at the time they left Taylor's house...unless the perp followed her to Taylors and then sat around and waited for 24-48 hours for an opportunity to kill them.

And it would also likely mean the NA POI was NOT part of the murders because his truck had an OK tag and NA Men are not nearly as prevalent in Baxter Springs KS as in OK - especially one with a long pony tail.

And who would have been retaliating? The suspects in the KS case are all in jail and appear to be small time drug dealers (albeit violent ones) - not connected to the type of groups that could arrange or pull off a murder of a half sister of Edward who was living 500 miles away.

Of course it's POSSIBLE, but I am not thinking it's probable.

My Opinion

[noZme]

oh my... the hounds have been chasing the wrong fox???????

osbi said the witness has not been able to come forward for the 1st few days.... seemed to be very forgiving of the tardiness... is that because he was tied up in a ks court? i haven't read the whole articles yet, but wouln't all these guys directly related to the richardson murder have been in custody?

we were so darn certain that because the girls were killed on taylor's "turf" & her family fractured, that was the 1st line to search..... so we are now looking for a friend/ relative/coconspirator of skyla's brother?

msholmes we need you!

[SuziQ]

This would make sense if Skyla and Taylor had been killed at HER home - but how would the perp - from KS, know where Skyla was that Sunday afternoon, much less that she would be out walking on the road. That would have required Skyla to be in communication with the perp (and it would have to have been online or by cell phone) at the time they left Taylor's house...unless the perp followed her to Taylors and then sat around and waited for 24-48 hours for an opportunity to kill them.

And it would also likely mean the NA POI was NOT part of the murders because his truck had an OK tag and NA Men are not nearly as prevalent in Baxter Springs in KS as in OK - especially one with a long pony tail.

And who would have been retaliating? The suspects in the KS case are all in jail and appear to be small time drug dealers (albeit violent ones) - not connected to the type of groups that could arrange or pull off a murder of a half sister of Edward who was living 500 miles away.

Of course it's POSSIBLE, but I am not thinking it's probable.

My Opinion

I don't know if it's possible either. But you'd have to wonder how desperate someone would be pending a trial that could end up with a Life plus sentence. Witness relatiation is a big problem. Selling you out for a lesser sentence and he gets ten years while you get life is worthy of retaliation. They killed for a measley 5000.00. Facing life plus is more valuable than that. I think the possibility of a connection has to be entertained. If this Gordon is the same as Skyla's brother that is.

[SuziQ]

oh my... the hounds have been chasing the wrong fox???????

osbi said the witness has not been able to come forward for the 1st few days.... seemed to be very forgiving of the tardiness... is that because he was tied up in a ks court? i haven't read the whole articles yet, but wouln't all these guys directly related to the richardson murder have been in custody?

we were so darn certain that because the girls were killed on taylor's "turf" & her family fractured, that was the 1st line to search..... so we are now looking for a friend/ relative/coconspirator of skyla's brother?

msholmes we need you!

Good point about the tardiness. I'm thinking if this is connected, it would be whoever had an ax to grind against Gordon. And it appears he most likely pissed a few people off.

[strach304]

That bunch was small time weed dealer wannabees that would have escalated to bigger drug deals later on down the road. 2 Have already been prosecuted, one had all charges dropped and Gordon got 10 years. The only way I see this fitting is a hit on Gordon's family. Like another poster said they would have had to have watched Skyla, etc.

[SuziQ]

Also it may not be retaliation so much as intimidation. Although as you said FC, the location is so close to Taylor's house I'm still thinking that is the more likely connection.

[OrdinaryLife]

And witness retaliation is becoming epidemic. Gordons (Possibly Skyla's brother)pled down in exchange for testimony and one more trial is coming up. So far one has been sentenced to life+. I don't think it's a stretch to think that Gordon would have been sent a message to shut up.

In *some* cases, but it is not the norm. I do think it is a huge stretch since there is not even a hint of proof that this guy is even possibly Skyla's brother.

I feel we should be very, very careful the way the pursuit of family is being handled. All the work and discussion is a major guess with absolutely nothing that has lent it's hand to it regarding this tragedy.

IMVVHO

[tamfish]

I agree with FlowerChild. If someone wanted retaliation against Gordon, it seems to me they could have found someone closer to him. And I don't just mean physical distance -- given the age difference between Gordon and Skyla (if he is her half-brother) I doubt they had much to do with each other.

[evelyn24]

What leaped out at me is Gordon is to testify against his co-defendents and Graham's trial is to start in July, just one month after the girls were killed almost execution style. The first main co-defendant received life plus 68 years and the second co-defendent, Graham was up for his case next.

Thanks for finding this OBE. If anything, out of all the family criminal activity, this makes the most sense. It's something to think about..that's for sure.

[strach304]

I'm sticking with my first intuition. The NA was a lookout for a body being dumped or killed in those woods. That looks like an off the road beaten path they thought was secluded. The NA isn't coming forward because he is just as guilty. Perhaps the explanation for both girls being shot with both guns was to insure that both were guilty of the crime or at least have the lookout guy included in the murder part so he couldn't go to LE.

The girls probably were just walking that road at the wrong time. Seeing the pick-up was enough to get them killed. Probably noticed nothing else amiss or anything which explains them not running.

[Busylady]

This is a different obit for Skyla that I had not seen yet

http://www.legacy.com/joplinglobe/Obituaries.asp?Page=SearchResults&DateRange=Today&Product=0


Skyla Jade (Getman) Whitaker, 11, rural Henryetta, Okla., died June 8, 2008. She was born April 5, 1997, in Joplin, Mo. Skyla attended Lincoln and Central schools in Baxter Springs, Kan., and Graham School in rural Henryetta, where she participated in basketball, cheerleading, 4-H and S.W.A.T. Survived by her parents, William and Rose (Farrow) Whitaker, of the home; birth father, Kim Getman, of Baxter Springs; four sisters, Rosita Gordon, of Tulsa, Okla., Jennifer Spaulding, of Joplin, Mo., Christine Whitaker, of Popular Bluff, Mo., and Jayme Whitaker, of the home; a brother, Edward, of Columbus, Kan.; maternal grandparents, Jim and Claudia Farrow, of rural Henryetta; adoptive grandparents, Bill and Sharon Whitaker, of Baxter Springs, and Linda Pritchard, of Henryetta

[SuziQ]

Data, Google witness retaliation and you'll find over a million results. It is a problem and it is epidemic. You are correct though and we need to verify that Gordon is the same as Skyla's brother.

Here is an example of witness retaliation and in this case the hit was arranged from behind bars after the defendant had been sentenced to life in prison:

http://www.nj.com/southjersey/index.ssf/2008/05/mother_of_trenton_girl_who_die.html

A woman's testimony against the drug dealer next door helped put him away for life. Now a fire has consumed her home and killed her 10-year-old girl, and police say the convicted man's associates may have set it.
Investigators found evidence suggesting arson in the blaze that killed Qua-Daishia Hopkins on Sunday, and Trenton Police Director Joseph Santiago said the case was being investigated as possible witness retaliation homicide. If that proves true, it would be the third such death in the city this year.

[FlowerChild]

I don't know if it's possible either. But you'd have to wonder how desperate someone would be pending a trial that could end up with a Life plus sentence. Witness relatiation is a big problem. Selling you out for a lesser sentence and he gets ten years while you get life is worthy of retaliation. They killed for a measley 5000.00. Facing life plus is more valuable than that. I think the possibility of a connection has to be entertained. If this Gordon is the same as Skyla's brother that is.
But why would they choose Skyla when other (more closely related) family members are right there - or nearby? And did somebody drive from KS to kill Skyla as a message, and then do it at her friend's house and also kill her unrelated friend? Not much of a message in that? And Skyla did have a younger sister who was at HOME, probably all weekend - why not kill HER? At least THAT would make sense as a clear message. As this stands, I don't think Skyla's parents OR more importantly, Edward, would even get that Skyla's murder was a message from Edward's co-defendants. The way this went down, there isn't any connection at all to Skyla, Edward or anyone in Skyla's family.

And finally OSBI said they have more than ONE witness - if these folks saw the POI and saw Skyla and Taylor walking then why didn't they see an out of state vehicle driving slowly on the same road?

Yep, these guys were bad news, but not very smart and certainly not rich. I don't get the idea that they were smart enough or rich enough to put out a hit (especially one on a child that lived so far away) - and I doubt their family members or friends did it for them either. Killing Skyla this way didn't send a message to ANYONE, least of all, her (possible) brother in Prison (in KS).

It always pays to check out EVERY POSSIBILITY but I think this one will be a quick dead end.
My Opinion

[SuziQ]

This is a different obit for Skyla that I had not seen yet

http://www.legacy.com/joplinglobe/Obituaries.asp?Page=SearchResults&DateRange=Today&Product=0


Skyla Jade (Getman) Whitaker, 11, rural Henryetta, Okla., died June 8, 2008. She was born April 5, 1997, in Joplin, Mo. Skyla attended Lincoln and Central schools in Baxter Springs, Kan., and Graham School in rural Henryetta, where she participated in basketball, cheerleading, 4-H and S.W.A.T. Survived by her parents, William and Rose (Farrow) Whitaker, of the home; birth father, Kim Getman, of Baxter Springs; four sisters, Rosita Gordon, of Tulsa, Okla., Jennifer Spaulding, of Joplin, Mo., Christine Whitaker, of Popular Bluff, Mo., and Jayme Whitaker, of the home; a brother, Edward, of Columbus, Kan.; maternal grandparents, Jim and Claudia Farrow, of rural Henryetta; adoptive grandparents, Bill and Sharon Whitaker, of Baxter Springs, and Linda Pritchard, of Henryetta

Well, that's where the trials are. Columbus, Kansas.

[Leila]

Welcome GideonsTrumpet!

[SuziQ]

FC, it's not anymore of a stretch to think this could be connected than to think some criminal element on Taylor's side of the family could be connected. For one I'd like to find out more about the Gordon connection and rule it in or out than to sit here and debate all day why it should or shouldn't be considered. To me that would be fruitless and a dead end.

[sweetheart29]

I agree about the too many co-conspirators to keep it quiet for long (unless they are all extremely close-knit, like brothers). I do know there are handguns in the area. I have seen them and there are people who bring them to events like the Boley and Clearview rodeos (really not trying to scare anyone off of these two events, which are loads of fun, but there is some gang-banging involved). Handguns are everywhere, IMO.
My cousin is an okie bred and spread, bona fide, southern-fried good ol' boy and he has been known to shoot snakes with a handgun.
I thought at least one of the guns was a shotgun? Didn't they talk about finding shell casings? Are there other guns that produce shell casings? I am the non-gun person in my family.

Anyway, OSBI agents are saying they believe the witness at this point, so I defer to them since they certainly have more info. than us.

It's still worth considering, though.

I am okie too. When we go 4-wheeler riding (atv) we carry a 380 pistol to shoot snakes with. It easier to carry a pistol than a rifle on 4-wheeler. As far as I know all gun have shell cassings except for bb/ plette guns and muzzle loaders.




I asked this before and nobody touched it with a 10 foot pole. Skyla's mom was going to be driving along the road the girls were walking, why did Grandpa have to go look for them? I have thought about that I keep coming up with him thinkink something was wrong, but his actions does not seem like there was. If I see people messing around in my yard or at the end of my drive I grab my pistol and cell phone and go see what going on. Maybe he does not own a gun or a cell phone so he could not take them. If it had been me that got the call I would done almost the same as you. I would have called the mom back and said they went walking t must have left the ringer off on the phone they are not answering would you mind picking them up on your way here. The only reason I would have went out looking for them if I thought they were not where they said they were going or I thought something was wrong. Why did Skyla's mom not just call the cell phone to talk to her.

[Leila]

I didn't know that we usually don't send LE links to our threads....I always include links to our discussions when communicating with them. I am sorry you seem to disapprove with the way I am handling things. I have no problem with them reading here, I welcome it. That is exactly why we mods/admin work so hard to keep them cleaned up and on topic.

Christine.................I'm glad you did send a link to LE. You never know when one little nugget of info might help the pieces fall into place.

[MissHolmes]

Starting a new one, password is the same.

http://whitakertree.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=whitakertree&view=9&pid=1&rand=345025290&switch=0

[SuziQ]

http://www.joplinglobe.com/neo_sek/local_story_009195001.html?start:int=0

By Roger McKinney
rmckinney@joplinglobe.com
COLUMBUS, Kan. — The jury in a Cherokee County murder trial will begin deliberating today.
The defense rested its case Wednesday in the trial of Samuel Becker, 22, of Pittsburg. He is charged with first-degree murder in the Jan. 30, 2007, shooting death of Jamey Richardson in Baxter Springs. Becker also is charged with several other felonies, including kidnapping, aggravated battery and aggravated assault, with several alleged victims.
Richardson was a former key player for the Pittsburg State University basketball team.
The prosecution rested its case earlier Wednesday. Neither side called co-defendant Edward Gordon to testify. Gordon has an agreement with the prosecution to plead no contest to a charge of second-degree murder. The prosecution would seek a 10-year prison sentence for Gordon. The agreement requires him to testify against his co-defendants.

[OrdinaryLife]

Data, Google witness retaliation and you'll find over a million results. It is a problem and it is epidemic. You are correct though and we need to verify that Gordon is the same as Skyla's brother.

Here is an example of witness retaliation and in this case the hit was arranged from behind bars after the defendant had been sentenced to life in prison:

http://www.nj.com/southjersey/index.ssf/2008/05/mother_of_trenton_girl_who_die.html

A woman's testimony against the drug dealer next door helped put him away for life. Now a fire has consumed her home and killed her 10-year-old girl, and police say the convicted man's associates may have set it.
Investigators found evidence suggesting arson in the blaze that killed Qua-Daishia Hopkins on Sunday, and Trenton Police Director Joseph Santiago said the case was being investigated as possible witness retaliation homicide. If that proves true, it would be the third such death in the city this year.

Apples and oranges...you cannot compare this case to that one. I do know and understand completely what retaliation is, but this one does not add up to that. Unless a child/children have witnessed a murder, then I have seen, read, heard of their murder to shut them up. That said, if that were the case here, someone would of had to stake out those homes, those girls, and even phones to know exactly where they were going to be. In rural Weleekta, OK.

I do not buy into this scenerio of murder to get even. I guess we can agree to disagree.

[noZme]

morningsun.net archives chronicles the richardson murder story

[sweetheart29]

I dont know if the family had anything to do with the murders. I just have questions about why they did things the way they did them. I would not surpise me one bit if they were killed just cause some one could. I am still leaning towards drugs having something to do with it. I have not ideal how, why, or what.

[SuziQ]

morningsun.net archives chronicles the richardson murder story

Thank you!

[RoseRed]

But why would they choose Skyla when other (more closely related) family members are right there - or nearby? And did somebody drive from KS to kill Skyla as a message, and then do it at her friend's house and also kill her unrelated friend? Not much of a message in that? And Skyla did have a younger sister who was at HOME, probably all weekend - why not kill HER? At least THAT would make sense as a clear message. As this stands, I don't think Skyla's parents OR more importantly, Edward, would even get that Skyla's murder was a message from Edward's co-defendants. The way this went down, there isn't any connection at all to Skyla, Edward or anyone in Skyla's family.

And