Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #5

[Blink34]

Shad-
I could not find any property or tele listing or other for Lanphear In Lacrosse.
His last address:
3120 12 ST. SOuth
Wisconsin Rapids, WI 54494-6448
from records at least 96-99 or 2000
2001- present his current address.

[shadowraiths]

Shad-
I could not find any property or tele listing or other for Lanphear In Lacrosse.
His last address:
3120 12 ST. SOuth
Wisconsin Rapids, WI 54494-6448
from records at least 96-99 or 2000
2001- present his current address.
Speaking of addys, I found this bit odd.

10730 52ND St, Nekoosa, WI
10730 52ND St, Wisconsin Rapids, WI

Not sure of the Nekoosa is a typo or what, but the addy does exist and is therefore added to my crime map.

About other searches. I ran a quick search on the ECF system, but didn't find anything. I also threw the words, lanphear & bdsm into google, and the first page to come up was a tribe.net (http://people.tribe.net/lanphear) that is the same lanphear that you guys found on myspace. Only this lanphear claims to be in the SF Bay Area. Most of the other hits appear to be pr0n sites that have included his name to drive incoming hits to their sites. And finally, I ran a usenet search. But, unless I can get a reliable fix on an em addy, finding him on usenet would be like finding a needle in a haystack. Literally. Anyway, I'll prolly take a closer look see @ usenet later this evening or tomorrow (hopefully).

[daisygirl]

Speaking of addys, I found this bit odd.

10730 52ND St, Nekoosa, WI
10730 52ND St, Wisconsin Rapids, WI

Not sure of the Nekoosa is a typo or what, but the addy does exist and is therefore added to my crime map.

About other searches. I ran a quick search on the ECF system, but didn't find anything. I also threw the words, lanphear & bdsm into google, and the first page to come up was a tribe.net (http://people.tribe.net/lanphear) that is the same lanphear that you guys found on myspace. Only this lanphear claims to be in the SF Bay Area. Most of the other hits appear to be pr0n sites that have included his name to drive incoming hits to their sites. And finally, I ran a usenet search. But, unless I can get a reliable fix on an em addy, finding him on usenet would be like finding a needle in a haystack. Literally. Anyway, I'll prolly take a closer look see @ usenet later this evening or tomorrow (hopefully).


I really don't think this or the myspace page is the same guy. This page you posted has some additional pics. If you click - there is a better picture of this guy. It doesn't look anything like the mug shot of the guy from Wis Rapids. What do you think? Either way - the guy is still freaky.

[shadowraiths]

I really don't think this or the myspace page is the same guy.

I agree. The myspace/tribenet lanphear has a more pronounced chin.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j304/shadowraiths/Media/dddf9964.jpg

[Cherish]

I've noticed that the students usually are taken during months that the waterways are frigid. Something to note.
DEC.23,2007 JOSHUA SZOSTAK - PORT OF ALBANY,N.Y.-FOUND 4 22 08
JAN.20,2008 TOMMY BOOTH -RIDLEY TOWNSHIP,PA -FOUND 2 03 08 ?
FEB.5,2008 NICHOLAS GARZA -MIDDLEBURY ,VT -FOUND 5 27 08
APRIL 27,2008 WILLIAM JACOBSON-ITHACA,N.Y. -FOUND 4 30 08


JOSHUA SZOSTAK timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=650398 - 35k

TOMMY BOOTH
www.delcotimes.com/WebApp/appmanager/JRC/Daily?_ nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pg_article&r21.pgpath=%2FDCT... - 59k

NICHOLAS GARZA www.nicholasgarza.org/ - 2k -


WILLIAM JACOBSON
www.theithacajournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ article?AID=/20080501/NEWS01/805010352/1002 - 59k


I haven't been able to find anyone missing in March ... maybe someone knows of someone who either is missing or had a "strange thing" happen to them while they were out for the night.

[Cherish]

I'm leaning toward the idea that this is a gang initiation of some sorts. If only a few individuals were committing these crimes, I would think after 11 years they would tire of it or someone involved would acquire some form of a conscience and find the need to tell someone. { I would hope }
I searched the internet for information on the Latin Kings gang and it seems to fit. Sadly, I think this is why this crime is able to be committed for such a long period of time. Something tells me that the drownings of the eight Rapid City, SD men [1997-1999] are connected. Experimenting? or Refining?
I am unsure. Read the similarities: http://www.ishgooda.org/oglala/news5a.htm

[SeriouslySearching]

It isn't the Edward Lanphear that is involved in the case of the two men on myspace.

Thanks, Shadow!

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Cherish. That was a very interesting read! I have grown away from the theory of the Latin Kings personally, but it doesn't mean it couldn't be the case. I do agree with someone practicing this form of the kill tho.

[Cherish]

I've been concerned about all these drownings for awhile... the gang involvement seems the best fit. Can you tell me why you don't think they are responsible ?

[RR0004]

I'm not sure if anyone has seen this...but it is SO odd...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25751813/&GT1=43001

[Blink34]

I'm not sure if anyone has seen this...but it is SO odd...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25751813/&GT1=43001

Yes RR, there's a thread on it, and I agree

[MeoW333]

Maybe they kill more in the winter if the freezing water temp will help kill the victim more? I'm not sure how to word that.. Also most kids away at school are home or traveling for the summers and not at their colleges. College town's bars' would be frequented more so by locals and so more may be noticed than when they are crowded with college kids.

[Cherish]

I'm very sure that the water temperature is pertinent to the drownings. Number one; It insures the victim will drown very quickly and without a sound. Number two; I'm wondering if it has anything to do with many of the victims being found without traces of bruising {does the water temperature prevent noticeable bruising ? } I'm still wondering if tazers aren't being used.

[concentric]

I'm leaning toward the idea that this is a gang initiation of some sorts. If only a few individuals were committing these crimes, I would think after 11 years they would tire of it or someone involved would acquire some form of a conscience and find the need to tell someone. { I would hope }
I searched the internet for information on the Latin Kings gang and it seems to fit. Sadly, I think this is why this crime is able to be committed for such a long period of time. Something tells me that the drownings of the eight Rapid City, SD men [1997-1999] are connected. Experimenting? or Refining?
I am unsure. Read the similarities: http://www.ishgooda.org/oglala/news5a.htm

I have thought for a long time that it could be Native American gangs. The idea that there is a common purpose among members to communicate and carry out slayings in multiple locations within the midwest is what I see in this. Also, Sinsinewa being the name of a historical battle is significant. I read in some historical notes that many young warriors were killed and thrown in rivers or drowned in rivers in a kind of holocaust effort to end their lineage; end reproduction.

[fran]

My personal opinion is the assailant(s) have something to do with the schools, colleges. That's the reason MOST of the incidents are during the school year.

The victims are chosen because they are alone, late at night or early in the a.m.

Victims returning after a night of drinking are chosen because they are more easily overpowered.

The first few incidents, MAY have been accidental. But the fact when they started to multiply indicates it was NOT accidental, but more likely murder.

The incidents beginning in one or two states, indicate at that time perhaps only one or two assailants.

The incidents as they increased, spreading to additional locations, is an indication that the assailant(s) were traveling or commuting in between college locations.

The gradual spreading, spreading, increasing and increasing of incidents over the years, indicates to me as in above, commuting between colleges, additional members of the group joining in.

These people use the same MO, but their own MO. But the majority of the victims fit the same profile,

Young, late teens, early twenties
Attractive male.
Mostly physically fit.
Alone late at night in the early morning hours.
More times than not, returning from a venue where alcohol was most likely consumed.
That some have an extemely high alcohol blood content, doesn't necessarily mean they over indulged, at least by this latest incident, IF they did it may not have been at their own self-controlled.

Just something to think about.

JMHO
fran

PS...the timeline thread is helpful, divided the drownings and disappearance according to academic school year....fran

[concentric]

hi fran--you would find a great number of young white males in bars on campuses during those months. Do you think there is a sexual motivation and not a revenge motivation? The reason being, no sign of sexual assault, but the water could wash away any evidence of that, I suppose.

[fran]

hi fran--you would find a great number of young white males in bars on campuses during those months. Do you think there is a sexual motivation and not a revenge motivation? The reason being, no sign of sexual assault, but the water could wash away any evidence of that, I suppose.

Yes, I do think there is a sexual motivation and yes,.........the water could wash away any evidence.

Just because they didn't 'detect' any foul play, doesn't mean there wasn't any. They weren't looking at these cases as foul play so they didn't find any.

I believe it may be the 'school atmoshphere,' that brings the devil out.

JMHO
fran

PS......Welcome to Websleuths concentric! :) fran

[OrdinaryLife]

I have to say that if there was any sexual motivation it had to with a possible person (s) and not that of these students. A gang theory does not work for me, IMHO.

I think it's possible that it's someone a little older than these guys, but not by much. I think they blend in the college areas as well as the bars/party areas that these young men felt okay and safe with.

I would not comfortably say that some kind of drug was not used in most cases. I think that's a strong probable given where most of these young men were last seen.

Given what is available in regards to these victims, I do not believe they would have just walked off with anyone. I think whoever this is knows the campuses, the areas they were all found, and is maybe only several years older than these students. He/she looks safe, dressed safe, and has nothing about them that stands out. Basically, "normal".

I wonder if the person who approached them had some kind of need and requested "help" from these young men. Yes, aka Ted Bundy. But, for young men.

Just tossing my not so deep thoughts out there.

[Simplicity]

I believe the killer is one person. And, I believe he is good looking, highly intelligent, articulate, and, an under achiever in life.

He is probably a long haul trucker. I believe he is in his late twenties or early thirties. He fits in with young, intelligent, good looking guys. He might be a homosexual?

I believe the killer comes from a very poor background. His parents are probably alcoholics or have mental issues. The poverty background tells me that he is killing these young males for being the success that he is not!

Jealousy is probably the culprit. He's lashing out at these intelligent, high achieving males out of anger. He is a loser in society.

I would bet that he is not a loner, and, is obviously bright and charming.

[concentric]

I believe the killer is one person. And, I believe he is good looking, highly intelligent, articulate, and, an under achiever in life.

He is probably a long haul trucker. I believe he is in his late twenties or early thirties. He fits in with young, intelligent, good looking guys. He might be a homosexual?

I believe the killer comes from a very poor background. His parents are probably alcoholics or have mental issues. The poverty background tells me that he is killing these young males for being the success that he is not!

Jealousy is probably the culprit. He's lashing out at these intelligent, high achieving males out of anger. He is a loser in society.

I would bet that he is not a loner, and, is obviously bright and charming.

This is a very concise and simplified theory--I am with it. I did consider the envy angle early on, but not on Websleuths. As for being a trucker--do you think he's delivering beer to the bars?

How could he kidnap these men? He could simply be parked asking for directions.

[Cherish]

I know there is more than one culprit. I remember seeing the surveillance video of Chris Jenkins abduction and more than one person was involved. I also noted that:
in 7.11.97 Richard Hlavaty was chased by a group of men after a fight in LaCrosse... Richard drown.

on 01.01.98 Larry Andrews of New York was last seen running away from a train station... he was found drown.

10.31.02 Chris Jenkins of Minneapolis,MN --- an observer reported seeing an individual being attacked by 10 people --- across from the bar Chris Jenkins was at... later found drown.

6.12.05 Josh Snell of Eau Claire,Wi was able to make a phone call and report he was being chased but didn't know why... he was found drown.

02.02.06 Scott Radel of St.Cloud ,MN .... police officers reported the footprints found in the snow were determined to be of someone running...he was found drown.

And I am bringing up the incident of the native american man who stated he was harassed by a carload of teen-age white males who tried to chase him down with their car ... during the time of the 8 mysterious drownings in SD of homeless men.

It seems as though the victims are being chased or "herded" toward or into the river. It's also strange how so many of them are found to be missing items of clothing that they were wearing. Maybe while struggling to get away they wrangled out of their shirts. Who knows?

[OrdinaryLife]

I know there is more than one culprit. I remember seeing the surveillance video of Chris Jenkins abduction and more than one person was involved. I also noted that:
in 7.11.97 Richard Hlavaty was chased by a group of men after a fight in LaCrosse... Richard drown.

on 01.01.98 Larry Andrews of New York was last seen running away from a train station... he was found drown.

10.31.02 Chris Jenkins of Minneapolis,MN --- an observer reported seeing an individual being attacked by 10 people --- across from the bar Chris Jenkins was at... later found drown.

6.12.05 Josh Snell of Eau Claire,Wi was able to make a phone call and report he was being chased but didn't know why... he was found drown.

02.02.06 Scott Radel of St.Cloud ,MN .... police officers reported the footprints found in the snow were determined to be of someone running...he was found drown.

And I am bringing up the incident of the native american man who stated he was harassed by a carload of teen-age white males who tried to chase him down with their car ... during the time of the 8 mysterious drownings in SD of homeless men.

It seems as though the victims are being chased or "herded" toward or into the river. It's also strange how so many of them are found to be missing items of clothing that they were wearing. Maybe while struggling to get away they wrangled out of their shirts. Who knows?


There is no surveillance tape of Chris Jenkins abduction. Did you mean someone else, maybe?

Richard Hlavaty and his brother were being chased by a group of men after a fight and jumped into the river to escape. Richard drowned. Police do not consider this to have anything to do with the other college deaths.

Larry Andrews was last seen running away from Grand Central Station, but he was not being chased by anyone. In fact the witnesses stated that he was drunk, but not incoherent.

Josh Snell called his girlfriend to say he would be going over to her place. There is no report of him stating he was being chased.

Scott Radel's footprints show him falling down the river embankment and then running across the frozen river. His body was found in 11 feet of water. He had called his friends (they were at another bar) 3-4 times because he was lost. The only person who feels there may have been foul play is his father.

This is the information I have found.

[Cherish]

http://www.weau.com/news/headlines/18353369.html Here is the link that was offered if you google : Josh Snell phone call

And I vividly remember the video of Chris Jenkins but yes ,I cannot find it on the web.

Sorry to make it look as tho everyone is being chased but reports do make me wonder ... and yes I will admit not all drownings maybe connected . However, ghb or some other drugs do make the individual appear to be drunk and can disorientate them. I just refuse to assume anything. Someday we will all know the truth.

[OrdinaryLife]

http://www.weau.com/news/headlines/18353369.html Here is the link that was offered if you google : Josh Snell phone call

And I vividly remember the video of Chris Jenkins but yes ,I cannot find it on the web.

Sorry to make it look as tho everyone is being chased but reports do make me wonder ... and yes I will admit not all drownings maybe connected . However, ghb or some other drugs do make the individual appear to be drunk and can disorientate them. I just refuse to assume anything. Someday we will all know the truth.


I did Google all of these young men. That is how I have found some info. I do not disagree about a drug being slipped to any of them. I just cannot wrap my head around a gang related thing. It simply does not work for me.

[Rudolf]

I took a really good look at the "Evil Happy Smiley Face Man" graffiti. I believe it to be a crude drawing of Porky Pig, the cartoon character. Take a good look at the graffiti, and then look at a picture of Porky. If you make allowances for drawing ability and the fact its done with a can of paint, they are very similar. Porky's tag line was "Th-th-that's all,folks". Also take a look at the freebsd logo, which is a little red guy with horns and a pitchfork. The Evil-H-S-F-Man looks like a cross between the two.

[SheerLuck]

Bill Szostak says that he knows 4 of the 6 people he says are responsible for his son's death; from video from inside the bar his son was drinking in. This is the strongest statement made so far. He says his son was drugged and it sounds like maybe on the video from the bar, he sees this happening. He says the individuals involved in his son's death are also involved in other drownings. I think he said white people and blue collar workers might be involved and its a 3 tiered initiation with a hierarchy. When the pod cast is on Al Roney's WGY website I'll post it here. Szostak says the killers basically stalk out their victims and then hunt them down and they move up in the ranks by committing murder(if this is to be believed). He says its a large network of people involved. He was hesisant to say much but said something about religious satanic groups. So the approach with Bill Szostak in moving forward is to get 40 other families to petition the FBI or the Justice Department to reopen these cases. I'll post link with interview when Al gets it up on his site. Personally I think if Bill Szostak has evidence of 4 of the 6 people involved with his son's death; he should bring this to the Albany FBI and not worry about trying to link all the other cases yet. I remain skeptical about serial murder pods, but do think Josh Szostak might have been murdered.

[SheerLuck]

What I don't understand with Bill Szostak is why he would go on the radio and announce he knows 4 of the 6 people responsible with his son's death; instead of quietly bringing his evidence to the local FBI and showing them the video of the 4 people he suspects? Why not show them the part of the video where he sees his son is drugged?

[Moe]

He does not trust the Albany PD. He said he had to file a FOIL request in order to get a report from them regarding the investigation, and it was only thirty pages long. Bill also said the tape of the bar showed many things that were never followed up on.
I'm hoping WGY puts up a podcast today, the interview was fascinating.

[SheerLuck]

He does not trust the Albany PD. He said he had to file a FOIL request in order to get a report from them regarding the investigation, and it was only thirty pages long. Bill also said the tape of the bar showed many things that were never followed up on.
I'm hoping WGY puts up a podcast today, the interview was fascinating.

He'll have it on later today, but I agree with Al that if you don't trust the Albany Police than bring the video to the FBI. This is an absolute bombshell Bill Szostak dropped and from the interview; I had the impression that Bill Szostak might actually see someone drugging his son, but I'm not sure if he said this with 100% certainty. The impression is that the video shows people that Bill feels is responsible for his son's death. I think Bill Szostak's best appraoch is to stop linking his case with others and just get justice for his son first. If others are linked that would come out later but it remains very possible that most are just accidents. The starting point is proving murder and getting 1 conviction first. At the end of the interview; I think Bill said that 23 cases are linked now for sure; not 40; if I heard it right

[SheerLuck]

Here is the link to Al Roney's interview today with Bill Szostak. This is his main blog page and the podcasts with interviews are on the left side of the page under the Al Roney in demand section. The first podcast about alcohol has no relationship to the Szostak case; he had this guest lined up in advance and its unrelated. This interview reveals new details and if all accounts are true; it presents very strong evidence of foul play with regard to Josh Szostak.

http://www.wgy.com/pages/onair/onair_roney.html

Here are separate links if first link doesn't work. This is part 1 of the podcast of Bill Szostak being interviewed by Al Roney on WGY

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/ALBANY-NY/WGY-AM/szostak1.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=ALBANY-NY&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1155&STATION_ID=WGY-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=WGY&PCAST_CAT=news&PCAST_TITLE=Al_Roney_On-Demand

and this is part 2

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/ALBANY-NY/WGY-AM/szostak2.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=ALBANY-NY&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1155&STATION_ID=WGY-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=WGY&PCAST_CAT=news&PCAST_TITLE=Al_Roney_On-Demand

[daisygirl]

I found the interview very interesting. I hope they really are that close to making an arrest. Bill szostak also said one of the other drowning deaths ruled as an accident, will be relisted as a homicide in the upcoming weeks. Any thoughts to who this is? He said it is not one of the cases in New York. I am thinking Tommy Booth?

[Moe]

He'll have it on later today, but I agree with Al that if you don't trust the Albany Police than bring the video to the FBI. This is an absolute bombshell Bill Szostak dropped and from the interview; I had the impression that Bill Szostak might actually see someone drugging his son, but I'm not sure if he said this with 100% certainty. The impression is that the video shows people that Bill feels is responsible for his son's death. I think Bill Szostak's best appraoch is to stop linking his case with others and just get justice for his son first. If others are linked that would come out later but it remains very possible that most are just accidents. The starting point is proving murder and getting 1 conviction first. At the end of the interview; I think Bill said that 23 cases are linked now for sure; not 40; if I heard it right
I completly agree with you, I'm going to listen to that interview again.

[SheerLuck]

I found the interview very interesting. I hope they really are that close to making an arrest. Bill szostak also said one of the other drowning deaths ruled as an accident, will be relisted as a homicide in the upcoming weeks. Any thoughts to who this is? He said it is not one of the cases in New York. I am thinking Tommy Booth?

I would think it would have to be a case that was reopened by LE. Outside of the Jenkins case; if I remember right; I think there were 3 others reopened. Tommy Booth was one of them and I think there was a case in Ohio and also the Scott Radel case in St Cloud, Minn. I think the Ohio case was the chief from cinncinnati who reopened the case of Chris Olberding. That case was from 2004 and Scott Radel was from 2006. The other Ohio case was Brian Shaeffer who went missing in 2006 but was never found, but that was Columbus and I think it was the Cincinnati police who reopened a case. I'd be very surprised if Tommy Booth was the one Bill Szostak was referring to; I sort of would guess Scott Radel

[Blink34]

Scott Radel's case was never closed, and is an open homicide investigation. Brian Shaffer's was also never closed, and is technically classified as a missing persons case. Tommy Booth's case has not been reopened or reclassified but I understand that there may be further tox tests pending based on Willoughby's request. This is the case that will be reclassified as a homicide. Josh's case as far as LE is confirmed has been closed and is classified as accidental death by drowning; which I should disclose I do not agree with. I am a fan of Bill Szostak.

Wanted to point out I agreed with an earlier post in which you said that Bill would be better off having this case reviewed on it's own versus the association with the whole smiley face issue.. I agree that should be done individually across the board for all these cases actually and stated so a ways back.

[SheerLuck]

Scott Radel's case was never closed, and is an open homicide investigation. Brian Shaffer's was also never closed, and is technically classified as a missing persons case. Tommy Booth's case has not been reopened or reclassified but I understand that there may be further tox tests pending based on Willoughby's request. This is the case that will be reclassified as a homicide. Josh's case as far as LE is confirmed has been closed and is classified as accidental death by drowning; which I should disclose I do not agree with. I am a fan of Bill Szostak.

Wanted to point out I agreed with an earlier post in which you said that Bill would be better off having this case reviewed on it's own versus the association with the whole smiley face issue.. I agree that should be done individually across the board for all these cases actually and stated so a ways back.

Tommy Booth's case will be reclassified as a murder or homocide? Do you have a link? KTSP had reported that the police chiefs in St Cloud Minnesota and Cincinatti Ohio were "re-examing" their drowning cases, which I took as meaning re-opening. Basically when cops stop working on a case, the case is closed for all practical purposes. Usually police chiefs want to officially close cases because it helps their yearly review. I thought the Cincinnatti police might have been looking into the Olberding drowning because that was the only drowning case in Cincinnatti. What a bombshell from Bill Szostak. If what he says is true; I wish he'd take his most compelling evidence to the FBI immediately and move fast now. This isn't a game and if there are killers on video(which I sort of doubt) I would guess they'll be on the move. I'm very puzzled with the strategy of Gannon and now Szostak to go public and say they know murderers by name or face. This makes no sense to me at all

[Blink34]

I do not have a link to the announcement of the re-opening of Tommy's case, it was told to me by someone working in his case, therefore consider it my opinion based on my research. I will see I am puzzled that in that jurisdicion there is no coverage on the attempted abduction at Swarthmore College- Thomas Chiang.
Classification of cases, is a legal standard and protocal, there is no inbetween. If a case is unsolved, it is open, forever, or until it is. It is true the statisitic of open cases forces some LE to close them with unanswered questions, but I am unaware of what cases you are referring to that they are "re-opening"- and I can tell you that KTSP has had more than a few errors in reporting these cases.

If you recall, I posted a long time ago that each one of these cases should be reviewed individually on their own merits, rather than see how they fit into one scenario- you wouldnt do that as the lead investigator on a case as they should be working from the exclusionary rule, which after reviewing these cases in detail, is NOT the case.
I am hopeful that Bill is able to progress Josh's case and it results in a successful prosecution. It is my opinion an arrest in any one of these cases wil start the ball rolling for answers these families deserve. He has reached out to the FBI and started several petitions, I hope he is successful I will review Bill's interview again and post if I have any other thoughts.

[SheerLuck]

I do not have a link to the announcement of the re-opening of Tommy's case, it was told to me by someone working in his case, therefore consider it my opinion based on my research. I will see I am puzzled that in that jurisdicion there is no coverage on the attempted abduction at Swarthmore College- Thomas Chiang.
Classification of cases, is a legal standard and protocal, there is no inbetween. If a case is unsolved, it is open, forever, or until it is. It is true the statisitic of open cases forces some LE to close them with unanswered questions, but I am unaware of what cases you are referring to that they are "re-opening"- and I can tell you that KTSP has had more than a few errors in reporting these cases.

If you recall, I posted a long time ago that each one of these cases should be reviewed individually on their own merits, rather than see how they fit into one scenario- you wouldnt do that as the lead investigator on a case as they should be working from the exclusionary rule, which after reviewing these cases in detail, is NOT the case.
I am hopeful that Bill is able to progress Josh's case and it results in a successful prosecution. It is my opinion an arrest in any one of these cases wil start the ball rolling for answers these families deserve. He has reached out to the FBI and started several petitions, I hope he is successful I will review Bill's interview again and post if I have any other thoughts.

The link I'm asking for isn't for whether the Tommy Booth case was ever officially closed and then reopened. I was asking for a link to show that the Tommy Booth case will be the case that you said will be reclassified as a murder. You wrote in the post that I responded to: "Tommy Booth's case has not been reopened or reclassified but I understand that there may be further tox tests pending based on Willoughby's request. This is the case that will be reclassified as a homicide." Do you have a link to show that the Tommy Booth case will be reclassified as a murder? If not, what are you basing your post on?

[capoly]

In doing a search of this forum WOW didn't come up so I thought I would leave this link should someone care to check it out.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=112582229&sid=1



by The Internet- This Game Looks Awesome, But Will You Be Able to Drown People and Animals?



http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=690

[SheerLuck]

This looks to be another unfortunate accident, but I'll post it here because only 3 months ago Willie Jacobsen accidentally drowned in Ithaca, New York and now this kid accidentally drowned in Cortland, New York; which is only about 20 miles away from Ithaca.

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8705863&nav=menu183_2

[Blink34]

I would say definately one to watch, good find SL

[fran]

This looks to be another unfortunate accident, but I'll post it here because only 3 months ago Willie Jacobsen accidentally drowned in Ithaca, New York and now this kid accidentally drowned in Cortland, New York; which is only about 20 miles away from Ithaca.

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8705863&nav=menu183_2

Without really looking further, I too agree with you SL, this does appear to be an accident.

Paryers to his friends and family.

:(
fran

[SheerLuck]

I would say definately one to watch, good find SL

Thanx; I'm trying. Here's an interview/phone call today with Al Roney and Jim Miller; who's the Albany Polce Department's top spokesman. Miller was quoted in a local newspaper article where he said something negative about Gannon and Gannon's agenda and so he wanted to address and clarify his comments on the Al Roney WGY radio show. Surprisingly Miller returned Roney's call. This tells me there's a chance; if Bill presents some strong evidence to Albanys police chief; Tuffy; that there's a chance Tuffy would take a closer look. If he doesn't; then the FBI would be the next step. Albany had another shooting death yesterday though, so time is limited; so its got to be strong evidence; without any games. For example; if Szostak has on video someone drugging his son's drink; then bring this evidence to APD. Oh and Miller's basic message to Gannon is to either present some evidence to Chief Tuffy or take a hike. Here's link which I hope works:

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/ALBANY-NY/WGY-AM/miller.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=ALBANY-NY&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1155&STATION_ID=WGY-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=WGY&PCAST_CAT=news&PCAST_TITLE=Al_Roney_On-Demand

[CNYRN98]

This looks to be another unfortunate accident, but I'll post it here because only 3 months ago Willie Jacobsen accidentally drowned in Ithaca, New York and now this kid accidentally drowned in Cortland, New York; which is only about 20 miles away from Ithaca.

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8705863&nav=menu183_2

I posted this 2 weeks ago in the possible NY victims thread-probably shoud've posted it on this thread!

[SheerLuck]

I posted this 2 weeks ago in the possible NY victims thread-probably shoud've posted it on this thread!

This sounds like an accident but do you know anything more about it? Its only 20 to 25 miles from Ithaca where Willie Jacobsen drowned in late April.

[Cherish]

Has anyone given any further thought to the Toby Cohen disappearance?
(The article can be found at: http://gothamist.com/tags/Toby%20Cohen)

I see he was prescribed epilepsy medication and Tommy Booth also had a prescription for epilepsy.
(http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t11856.html)

Tommy Booth was found drowned in a creek.
Toby Cohen was "found swimming in a reservoir in Carmel, N.Y., with bruises on his face and legs and disoriented from missing doses of medication."


I can't find any more information about Toby Cohen that would answer any questions I would ask. Why he would leave without his wallet? Where was he going and what was the purpose of the $200.00 withdrawal that he made?

I do think that a drowning connected with an epileptic victim would be assumed as accidental as drunkenness.

It was just so strange to see each of them having the same condition.

[Cherish]

There is a current search for Andy Bethmann. Circumstances sound familiar.

[Blink34]

There is a current search for Andy Bethmann. Circumstances sound familiar.

Any more info?
http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7109078&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[DeltaDawn]

Here is the link to Al Roney's interview today with Bill Szostak. This is his main blog page and the podcasts with interviews are on the left side of the page under the Al Roney in demand section. The first podcast about alcohol has no relationship to the Szostak case; he had this guest lined up in advance and its unrelated. This interview reveals new details and if all accounts are true; it presents very strong evidence of foul play with regard to Josh Szostak.

http://www.wgy.com/pages/onair/onair_roney.html

Here are separate links if first link doesn't work. This is part 1 of the podcast of Bill Szostak being interviewed by Al Roney on WGY

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/ALBANY-NY/WGY-AM/szostak1.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=ALBANY-NY&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1155&STATION_ID=WGY-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=WGY&PCAST_CAT=news&PCAST_TITLE=Al_Roney_On-Demand

and this is part 2

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/ALBANY-NY/WGY-AM/szostak2.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=ALBANY-NY&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1155&STATION_ID=WGY-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=WGY&PCAST_CAT=news&PCAST_TITLE=Al_Roney_On-Demand


I am behind here but catching up again on these cases. Listening to that interview was the bomb...I was listening and thinking that Josh's dad was using the same words to describe the perps to a degree that Chris Jenkins family did. They said they knew who some of the people were, ties to evil, etc. I think that Josh, Chris and Tommy's cases are solidly intermeshed with the same group of perps.

I would really like to know the positioning of Josh's body when he was found. Arms across chest, floating flat, etc. Because that is the way both Chris and Tommy were found..that is not just a coincidence.

Also I find the the fact of Josh's clothing being rearranged very interesting, makes you wonder if that ever showed up before or are the perps trying to make a statement..and possible evidence of a date rape drug...which would lead me to believe not the ones we have previously suspected..I am thinking this one showed up in an autopsy tox scans or on the video they saw something.

Josh's dad also referenced the fact that certain items were missing of Josh's when his body was retrieved, but other items that did not belong to him were there..hmmmmm..is this one of the facts that the dicks have been not talking about that are similiar in these cases..markers so to speak.

[Cherish]

Information on Andy Bethmann can be found at:http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7109078&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

P.S. many victims are found missing items of clothing. http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/

[Cherish]

Sadly Andrew's body has been found http://preview.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/205BF779486E5644862574A2000F4C13?OpenDocument

[Blink34]

Sadly Andrew's body has been found http://preview.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/205BF779486E5644862574A2000F4C13?OpenDocument

Prayers to Andy's family, thanks for updating. I am feeling that we should keep an eye on the developments here at least for now. Anyone local know any reason why they would dump him at a church?

[daisygirl]

Here is an update on KSTP:
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S540014.shtml?cat=1
Basically it says another congressman has petitioned the FBI to look at this case. It also states that they have ruled Tommy Booth's death as "undetermined".

[daisygirl]

Another "insightful" article from KSTP:
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S564828.shtml?cat=1

While there is disagreement about what happens to the men, we do know that these drownings continue to happen. Now that it is fall, parents of the young men who have drowned, tell me they fear that the pattern will begin again. There are ways to keep your sons and brothers safe. It's pretty simple---drink responsibly and don't leave bars or house parties alone.


I do have to say it will be interesting to see if this pattern will begin again. I haven't really heard of any new drownings for awhile.

[SeriouslySearching]

This probably doesn't have anything to do with the other cases, but I felt I should mention it:

OKLAHOMA CITY -- The body of an 18-year-old drowning victim was pulled from Lake Fort Gibson on Sunday morning.

Troopers said the teen went for a walk on Saturday and didn’t return.

His family and troopers went searching for him and found his clothes, keys and a cell phone near the edge of a cover.

http://www.koco.com/news/17471934/detail.html?rss=okl&psp=news

[Cherish]

I would like to make a suggestion . I am wondering if a thread of people who are missing ,could be posted by the year. Right now you can only search people by state and it gets confusing because some of the missing are from other states than where they are found or even where they went missing.

Example : 2008 : 5/14/08 19 year old Brandon Swanson of Marshall,MN

[MeoW333]

That would be cool if we could get a chronological list. I thought i saw one somewhere; can't remember; senior moments..

[fran]

That would be cool if we could get a chronological list. I thought i saw one somewhere; can't remember; senior moments..

This might help.

fran

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2299822#post2299822

[Cherish]

Thank-you for the link . I will bookmark it.

[MeoW333]

Thank you Fran; that is the one i was thinking of =)

[Cherish]

Nothing has been reported of any college students being found drown. I am so glad it has stopped for now. I was also waiting for the big announcement in October but all I could find is this link: http://kstp.com/article/stories/S619711.shtml?cat=5

I will keep checking back with hope.

[Cherish]

This is maybe something to keep an eye on,but it may also prove to be unrelated.
http://www.nebraska.tv/Global/story.asp?S=9204673&nav=menu605_2

[Cherish]

A body of a 31 year old missing since Sept.20th has been found and identified. http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=9202916

[Cherish]

A body has been found of a young man in his 20's .http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=7674557&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

[raeann]

This is maybe something to keep an eye on,but it may also prove to be unrelated.
http://www.nebraska.tv/Global/story.asp?S=9204673&nav=menu605_2

There is a thread for this story now which has been opened. The Lincoln area is within a few hours drive of where both Brandon Swanson of Minnesota and also Ben Roseland from Iowa went missing.

[Cherish]

The Nebraska man found in Lincoln Parks appears to be an unfortunate accident. I found another news article about another drown young man.http://www.wwmt.com/articles/lake_1354552___article.html/body_coldwater.html

[Rudolf]

The Nebraska man found in Lincoln Parks appears to be an unfortunate accident. I found another news article about another drown young man.http://www.wwmt.com/articles/lake_1354552___article.html/body_coldwater.html
Cherish, I just read that the Lincoln Park man did not die of natural causes.
Do you know how to find out which is right? Why can't the news get the story straight?:banghead:

[Cherish]

I read a few articles about the situation and I made huge assumptions. One article states that the area the boys were in was heavily wooded and only accessible by foot.I also read that there were steep gullies. I just thought it sounded as though the boys were drinking and it was dark and maybe this boy possibly stumbled off an embankment or tumbled and hit his head either before he hit the water or after he fell into the water. I again assumed he had a head wound or something that would be stated as "unnatural causes". The articles didn't state he drown by natural causes.
http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/31308859.htmlhttp://www.nebraska.tv/Global/story.asp?S=9212813&nav=menu605_2
I think also the fact that the body was found in the general area of where the boys were, makes me think it was there the entire length of the month he went missing. It's still a little eerie to me.

[Cherish]

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10465692
http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/31308859.html

[daisygirl]

Sorry - I posted this in the last thread by accident too.

I came across this article today. Very intriguing. Goes into depth about a gang called Dealers of Death and the relation to these drownings.

http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/cur...essageID=23450

[raeann]

Sorry - I posted this in the last thread by accident too.

I came across this article today. Very intriguing. Goes into depth about a gang called Dealers of Death and the relation to these drownings.

http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/cur...essageID=23450

I can't get the link to work...help anyone??

Also a new unexplained missing, found in water male college student from Northwestern, I believe. His last name was Boehm and he was found in Lake Michigan. There is a thread under Missing/Identified.

[Cherish]

I read the article from the Milwaukee Magazine too. I found it really interesting but at the same time I hope the investigation is not compromised by releasing too much information too soon.

I was also reading about Trevor Boehm(20) ,who was found November 17, drown in a Chicago harbor.

Trevor was reported missing November 9th.
A man 34 named Zhya Jacobs was seen November 11th calling for help in the same harbor by a jogger. Zhya drowned.
Trevors body was found November 17th drown.
Both of these men were said to have lived in the same building.
The question was raised by another;Could it be possible that Zhya saw Trevor in the water and tried to save him?
I myself for some reason, don't think the smiley face killers were involved.

[Cherish]

http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/currentIssue/full_feature_story.asp?newMessageID=23450

[fran]

Thanks to all who've recenlty posted on this forum. I'm glad that everyone hasn't completely forgotten about these unfortunate young men. I know I'm constantly on the look-out of additonal information

I do not believe the two recently mentioned cases are connected to the 'smiley face' or any of the other male college student disappearance, unexplained death and drownings. They do appear to be isolated incidents.
Condolences to their families.

The Milwaukie Magazine article linked above is excellent, IMHO. It goes quite indepth to these cases.

:( It was with sadness I learned of Matt's brother, Chris' death. His family must be reeling with greif! {heartbreaking} :( I can't even imagine.

I appreciate everyone watching for 'new' cases. Of course we do not want there to be, but seeing how they accelerated the last few years, it's most likely just a matter of time.

Thanks for the link, interesting.

fran

[MCDRAW]

http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/currentIssue/full_feature_story.asp?newMessageID=23450

In Wisconsin, the two main clusters of deaths are in La Crosse and Eau Claire, where three young men have died in a similar manner. Two of the men were last seen leaving Eau Claire bars in fall 2002. Both turned up in Half Moon Lake. Three years later, the third man, Josh Snell, left an Eau Claire bar called Brothers and was found in the Chippewa River. Media accounts say Snell, in a cell phone call, said he was being chased. But Eau Claire Deputy Police Chief Eric Larsen says, “He said that he was in big trouble with the police department.” And there is no evidence of police contact. Two of his shirts were found on a river bank.


This makes me wonder if they may be pretending to be cops and that's how they get the boys to the rivers.

[fran]

Or,...........maybe they're cops and pretending they never talked to the victim.

Honestly, I've thought of that scenario many times. A few of them had some contact with LE and then LE said they either let them go or they lost them. :rolleyes:

interesting, doncha' think?

fran

[Cherish]

This is just an update to the drowning of Dustin Juenne, from Nebraska http://www.kcautv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9412954&nav=1kgl

The article states the drowning was accidental.

[Cherish]

MCDRAW, I and my sister were in LaCrosse and she told me about the drownings. I asked her to show me where the river was in conjunction to the bars because she said there was no way anyone drunk or not would go down towards the river. She said it is not lit very well and its a bunch of closed shops in the opposite direction of all the night life and activity. She was right..... but as we were walking....I saw a figure to my right following along side us. I immediately told my sister and she responded that someone was to her left and keeping pace with us also. The two of us froze in our tracks and the two disappeared as silently as they appeared. I never saw where they went... just into the darkness. My guess is that these members are just predators and they lie in waiting or have girls lure the men away from the bars towards them. I don't dismiss the use of cab or police disguise but they may not need much persuasion due to the fact the victims are already incoherent.

[Cherish]

I'm also wondering why the LaCrosse police chief was so adamant to disregard the thought of a serial killer. I remember I was told about two bloodhounds on two separate occasions who lead investigators to a single police car. Either a police officer was involved or they denied having picked up the young man and let him go. I sometimes wondered if the police chief had a son on the force who was involved. It would fit the theory of someone who resented the athletic and academically achieved college student. Jealousy has been a motive before. I'm way out on a limb here but it makes me wonder. Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

[MCDRAW]

MCDRAW, I and my sister were in LaCrosse and she told me about the drownings. I asked her to show me where the river was in conjunction to the bars because she said there was no way anyone drunk or not would go down towards the river. She said it is not lit very well and its a bunch of closed shops in the opposite direction of all the night life and activity. She was right..... but as we were walking....I saw a figure to my right following along side us. I immediately told my sister and she responded that someone was to her left and keeping pace with us also. The two of us froze in our tracks and the two disappeared as silently as they appeared. I never saw where they went... just into the darkness. My guess is that these members are just predators and they lie in waiting or have girls lure the men away from the bars towards them. I don't dismiss the use of cab or police disguise but they may not need much persuasion due to the fact the victims are already incoherent.


I have thought before that a woman was involved, she drugged them, and lured them to their death. I just know that if alcohol was the reasoning for the drowning why aren't there women and middle age men coming up missing and drowned?

[MCDRAW]

Or,...........maybe they're cops and pretending they never talked to the victim.

Honestly, I've thought of that scenario many times. A few of them had some contact with LE and then LE said they either let them go or they lost them. :rolleyes:

interesting, doncha' think?

fran


Yes, it could be that scenario too. That really might explain why they refuse to think of these cases as anything other than accidental drownings.

[Claycat]

Wow, Cherish, I am glad you and your sister are safe! That must have been terrifying!

[SeriouslySearching]

I haven't forgotten about these cases, I assure you. They are always in the back of my mind. I will be very interested to learn more about Trevor Boehm and the other cases.

[SheerLuck]

I read the article from the Milwaukee Magazine too. I found it really interesting but at the same time I hope the investigation is not compromised by releasing too much information too soon.

I was also reading about Trevor Boehm(20) ,who was found November 17, drown in a Chicago harbor.

Trevor was reported missing November 9th.
A man 34 named Zhya Jacobs was seen November 11th calling for help in the same harbor by a jogger. Zhya drowned.
Trevors body was found November 17th drown.
Both of these men were said to have lived in the same building.
The question was raised by another;Could it be possible that Zhya saw Trevor in the water and tried to save him?
I myself for some reason, don't think the smiley face killers were involved.

If you think there is a satanic gang or smiley face killers; that's been killing young college men; just wondering why you don't think they'd be involved here? I thought most of these kids died from alcohol related accidents; but I'll be honest; I never could quite be certain and I always left a small window open; that maybe some sick group of satanists could be behind some of these deaths. I thought if there really was a satanic group killing college men, that they'd lay low in September and October due to last years nationwide news coverage; but that they'd start killing again in Novemeber; if they thought that the police and students might let their guard down as the semester carried on. I thought they might avoid bars and parties and find a new method; so when I read about Trevor Boehm I thought he might fit. The first thing I noticed was that Trevor Boehm was the same age group; about 5 foot 10 and weighed about 150; so he was similiar in height and weight to many of the other kids. Nothing indicates either way whether Trevor Boehm was drinking or wasn't drinking, but there is an indication of possible foul play. His jacket, which had his keys and cell phone in it; was found on rocks; near Lake Michigan where he drowned and his bike was missing. To me this does not sound like an accident; it sounds like either foul play or suicide. For an accident it makes no sense that someone would take their jacket off and set it down on rocks in November. Besides that; there were 2 other things that got my attention. The first was that his jacket was found on rocks in a spot where the police had said they had already previously searched. Yet on their first search; they did not see the jacket. So how does the jacket turn up on rocks in a specific location which had already been searched? I guess it's possible the police missed seeing the jacket when they searched the area the first time or maybe the wind blew it? But there's also the long shot possibility that a killer or killers; left the jacket there as both a clue and a police taunt. That seems as likely as the wnd blowing. So as I see it; either this is foul play; or Boehm took his jacket off with his keys and cell phone it in; and then rode his bike into Lake Michigan by accident or by suicide. Besides the jacket being found in a spot that had previously been searched; the other thing that caught my eye and gave me a slight jolt; was that I thought Trevor Boehm looked a lot like Chris Jenkins. A lot of people felt Jenkins and Josh Guillmond looked similiar, so I'm wondering if anyone sees a similiarity with Boehm, Jenkins and Guillmond? I'm tired and maybe my imagination is running and maybe no one would agree, but here is a picture of Trevor Boehm

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1273253,111108boehm.fullimage

and here is a picture of Chris Jenkins:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/news/original/1106/chris_jenkins/Chris-Jenkins(1)200.jpg

and here is a picture of Josh Guillmond

http://www.csbsju.edu/news/crisis/guimond_j.jpg

[lucky181]

Last night I was listening to Coast to Coast radio show. One of the guests was a reporter from a Minneapolis tv station KSTP, Kristi Piehl. She has been investigating the drownings. I don't remember everything she said but here is her recap from the Coast to Coast website. I also think she mentioned suicide when discussing Trevor Boehm, the Northwestern student.

"In the first hour, former 5 Eyewitness News reporter Kristi Piehl provided an update on her investigation into a strange series of drowning deaths attributed to a gang of murderers known as the Smiley Face Killers. Since her last appearance, the FBI has interviewed a prisoner in Minnesota who provided key information about this case to retired New York detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte. According to Piehl, the FBI has determined the prisoner's testimony is not credible and the theory of a gang of murderers targeting young men across the country is likely also not true. The FBI has disclosed their findings in a letter to Wisconsin Congressman F. James Sensenbrenner, she noted."

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2008/12/06.html#recap

[Filly]

David Martinez aged 26 drowned in a pond outside of Taylor's Bar & Grill in Cherry Hill New Jersey. The recent college graduate was found under an inch of ice face up.

Martinez was kicked out of the bar by bouncers and had no coat with him. His friends remained figuring he was returning to the hotel room they were all renting for New Years evening.



http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20090103_Man_found_dead_in_frozen_pond.html


A University Of Pennsylvania student's body was found along the bank of the Delaware River in Philadelphia yesterday. Kambili Moukwa was with friends at a club, and somehow Moukwa remained behind. At around 3:45AM friends got a cell call from him, but didn't hear it. Clubs here close at 3:00AM.

This bright young man is an intern in the Mayor's office. A bright, well loved young man with so much promise. His body was apparently not found in the river, but right at it. There'd be no reason for this kid to cross a big intersection, and go through iron gates to a construction site. IMO he most certainly didn't get lost. If he could call friends I would doubt he was so drunk he went to that part of the waterway.

Cherry Hill, New Jersey is about 20 minutes over the bridge from this part of Philly. Is this a coincidence? God Bless these young men and their families.

[MeoW333]

Are a lot of these murders/drownings happening near IVY league schools??

[Filly]

Are a lot of these murders/drownings happening near IVY league schools??

MeoW, I'm not sure about IVY league, but apparently alot of the young men were stellar students.

Besides the young man who was just found in Philly being from Penn there was another guy a few years ago from Penn found in our Schukill River. Not sure of the spelling on that river and I live here. We call it the "sure kill" as it's a dangerous highway. That having nothing to do with the boys death of course. I'll look up that guys name and link it. I think it was ruled a suicide and family and friends have all said absolutely not.

The guy who was found in Cherry Hill had already gradulated. I neglected to put what school he went to, but I know it wasn't IVY League.

It just astounds me a young guy is found face up in a "pond" under an inch of ice. I understand people get drunk, but it was so cold. They said he had a scratch on his chin and may have hit it on a fountain. The proximity to the poor guy found in Philly is just so super close. Drunk or not I don't see why in heck that guy would have went to that pier. There's nothing there. It's a weird section. You have nightclubs spring up down there, and they're trying to put up casinos so there's construction stopped and started. Other parts there's nothing, but junk.

It's just so sad the whole thing, but way odd.

[MeoW333]

MeoW, I'm not sure about IVY league, but apparently alot of the young men were stellar students.

Besides the young man who was just found in Philly being from Penn there was another guy a few years ago from Penn found in our Schukill River. Not sure of the spelling on that river and I live here. We call it the "sure kill" as it's a dangerous highway. That having nothing to do with the boys death of course. I'll look up that guys name and link it. I think it was ruled a suicide and family and friends have all said absolutely not.

The guy who was found in Cherry Hill had already gradulated. I neglected to put what school he went to, but I know it wasn't IVY League.

It just astounds me a young guy is found face up in a "pond" under an inch of ice. I understand people get drunk, but it was so cold. They said he had a scratch on his chin and may have hit it on a fountain. The proximity to the poor guy found in Philly is just so super close. Drunk or not I don't see why in heck that guy would have went to that pier. There's nothing there. It's a weird section. You have nightclubs spring up down there, and they're trying to put up casinos so there's construction stopped and started. Other parts there's nothing, but junk.

It's just so sad the whole thing, but way odd.

I should have elaborated; are the drowned young men being found near close proximity to Ivy league schools? I'm thinking maybe some sort of satanic frats that go to Ivy league schools are killing. A lot of them would have fathers in high places.. and Fraternal orders such as Masons, etc.

[Filly]

I should have elaborated; are the drowned young men being found near close proximity to Ivy league schools? I'm thinking maybe some sort of satanic frats that go to Ivy league schools are killing. A lot of them would have fathers in high places.. and Fraternal orders such as Masons, etc.

My misunderstanding, MeoW. I see what you mean. No sure if Kambili was in a frat but his dad is an Engineer. Technically he wasn't in the river, but at the link you can a photograph of the parking lot and it's right almost under the bridge. The Zee Bar where they partied is all the way up another city block. There was just no need for this poor guy to be in that parking lot? Perhaps someone lured him, and didn't get to get him all the way to the water?

If you take a look at the photograph that bridge would take you almost smack into Cherry Hill where the martinez boy was found drowned in the pond. Again perhaps just coincidence, but who knows?


http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/37034534.html

[MeoW333]

I wonder if LE is checking for any graffiti that may be related nearby for either of those cases.

The link below has a photo of the young man, Kambili Moukwa
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1354817.html

Filly, how many minutes apart would it be about? That is odd about the bridge. I wonder if something happened and Moukwa never made it to water, maybe they got interrupted..

[Filly]

I wonder if LE is checking for any graffiti that may be related nearby for either of those cases.

The link below has a photo of the young man, Kambili Moukwa
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1354817.html

Filly, how many minutes apart would it be about? That is odd about the bridge. I wonder if something happened and Moukwa never made it to water, maybe they got interrupted..

MeoW, I looked for images of that lot. Closer up ones and can't find any. Over that bridge to Cherry Hill is 20 minutes or so. It's real close.

The Zee Bar that Moukwa was at is a whole city block away from that parking lot. He worked in our City Hall here and went to Penn so you'd have to be unable to practically walk to know you're going towards the river. That's as far as you can go. You'd know you're going the wrong way.

He called his friends. To me I'd think he couldn't be that drunk to make a call. If indeed he did get confused and went toward the river and then made the call you wouldn't just lay there in that frigid weather.

That would be way far for a person to carry a grown man. Spring Garden Street is busy as is Delaware Avenue which is also called Columbus Boulevard (don't ask). I doubt someone drove him down there because there's gates. It used to be where our trash got incinerated.

It's just weird again one guy seperated from friends and another kicked out of a bar. Twenty minutes apart in distance. BTW, I-95 is right there as well. Quick getaway. As for grafitti there's tons of it down there. We're also known for the city with like a gazillion murals. There's a big mural down in those parts of the American Flag. Our El goes underground right at Spring Garden and there's tons of grafitti upstairs and down.

I'd go look but I'm chicken like that. No way am I going down by the river.