Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #5

[SeriouslySearching]

Please continue here:

[SeriouslySearching]

I have to get caught up on things here, but from the looks of the previous page...we are no closer than we were before.

[Blink34]

I have to get caught up on things here, but from the looks of the previous page...we are no closer than we were before.

Unfortunately I agree. It seems that it is taking some posters most of their available time on here correcting facts that were uncovered early on and verified. I find this counter-productive and frankly have not spent much time here as a result. There are a slew of posters on this thread that spend an exhaustive amount of time checking their facts and uncovering new possibilities, I just would like to see their work both more respected, and in short, want to help, and their objective is to solve these cases and give families answers. If that is not someones goal I would question why they are on here.
Fran, RR, DD, SuzQ, SS, Agigi,DS, VG, V3,LB,Shadow, Roxye, and whoever I forgot and will undoubtedly need to recognize following "submit" I hope you realize that your work for this guys is important and it matters and to hang in. Sorry for the rant, this matters, imho.

[SeriouslySearching]

We need to get things back on track here and figure out the missing pieces. Since D & G aren't giving us much to work with, we need to avoid the tangents and try to keep the facts straight. Speculation is one thing, but going down the wrong paths over and over will not lead anywhere.

[DeltaDawn]

We need to get things back on track here and figure out the missing pieces. Since D & G aren't giving us much to work with, we need to avoid the tangents and try to keep the facts straight. Speculation is one thing, but going down the wrong paths over and over will not lead anywhere.

Agreed

[Blink34]

Agreed

Ditto.
This is a thought, and a bit aggressive as I am going on vacay in 3 days, but, what if we took the "smelliest" cases, reviewed for the "unanswered questions" portions and rate by hinky factor.. Then start the process of linking them WITHOUT the graffiti, perhaps just focusing on the tangibles.

I'm thinking:
category of possible vics that were traveling when they went missing and not in their "turf"..

Category of vics that KNEW each other at some point

Category of vics with verified direct evidence that conflicts with accidental drowning (cell phone elsewhere, folded clothes, etc..)

Anyone?
It has dawned on me that we are all assuming that D&G have linked these cases and we know or will found out how- Maybe the best way to prove that theory is to take the postion from a protaganistic perspective, or in this case, the FBI, which should net us a "fill in the blanks scenario" to work with, but by working with the exclusionary rule, not the "if I can't answer how he got there than it is an accident."

[RR0004]

Agreed
Absolutely!!

[SheerLuck]

Unfortunately I agree. It seems that it is taking some posters most of their available time on here correcting facts that were uncovered early on and verified. I find this counter-productive and frankly have not spent much time here as a result. There are a slew of posters on this thread that spend an exhaustive amount of time checking their facts and uncovering new possibilities, I just would like to see their work both more respected, and in short, want to help, and their objective is to solve these cases and give families answers. If that is not someones goal I would question why they are on here.
Fran, RR, DD, SuzQ, SS, Agigi,DS, VG, V3,LB,Shadow, Roxye, and whoever I forgot and will undoubtedly need to recognize following "submit" I hope you realize that your work for this guys is important and it matters and to hang in. Sorry for the rant, this matters, imho.

People who don't agree with you aren't supposed to post? As I see it; alcohol and drug awareness never hurt anyone. The only thing that hurts; is when the dangers of alcohol or drug abuse are ignored. And if this is simply a bs ratings grab by KTSP and a dead end trail that Gannon went broke following; then the kids who really were murdered; like possibly Josh Szostak and maybe a couple of others; have been completely hosed. That is; their families who want answers have been hosed. KTSP got the story in the summer of 2007, but they held the story for 9 months until ratings sweeps week. Why was that? As they held their juicy story; 9 more kids drowned during the 2007-2008 school year. It's wrong to question this? Gannon said he went public to warn others; yet he had no problem with KTSP holding the story for 9 months and waiting for ratings sweeps week? Obviously the warning should have come BEFORE the school year if this was really genuine

[SeriouslySearching]

Anyone can post all they want, but keeping things on track here doesn't mean we will be inclined to respond to continually argue points with them. I think we have wasted a lot of effort and time by doing this while it has gotten us nowhere! Why continue doing something that isn't working and bringing the case any further ahead? Makes no sense to me.

Blink, I think you have a great idea as a new place to start. We can get to work on that while you enjoy yourself. You have earned a break! :)

[Blink34]

People who don't agree with you aren't supposed to post? As I see it; alcohol and drug awareness never hurt anyone. The only thing that hurts; is when the dangers of alcohol or drug abuse are ignored. And if this is simply a bs ratings grab by KTSP and a dead end trail that Gannon went broke following; then the kids who really were murdered; like possibly Josh Szostak and maybe a couple of others; have been completely hosed. That is; their families who want answers have been hosed. KTSP got the story in the summer of 2007, but they held the story for 9 months until ratings sweeps week. Why was that? As they held their juicy story; 9 more kids drowned during the 2007-2008 school year. It's wrong to question this? Gannon said he went public to warn others; yet he had no problem with KTSP holding the story for 9 months and waiting for ratings sweeps week? Obviously the warning should have come BEFORE the school year if this was really genuine

Sl- I am happy to discuss ANY opinions based on facts that further the investigation of these occurances. That being said, know that you post to be combative with your meritless and whimsical opinions, look above as an example. Do you sincerely belive that people on this thread are relying on press accounts just as you are? Or do you think that maybe some of us have really done the diligence? This is not about being right, this is about compassion, justice, and prevention. You are clear that iyo, you believe there is an alcohol problem and some are accidents, some are suicides.. I have duly noted your final opinion/analysis, and wish you "luck" as there is clearly nothing left for you to say hear, with no malice on my part. I /we just don't agree and would like to further our discussion without your apparent antagonism. What if this were your son?

[Blink34]

Anyone can post all they want, but keeping things on track here doesn't mean we will be inclined to respond to continually argue points with them. I think we have wasted a lot of effort and time by doing this while it has gotten us nowhere! Why continue doing something that isn't working and bringing the case any further ahead? Makes no sense to me.

Blink, I think you have a great idea as a new place to start. We can get to work on that while you enjoy yourself. You have earned a break! :)



SS- I am here, and will be as I can, and when I cannot will be in my heart.
I always feel for those that don't have their sons to be on vacay with, as I am sure we all do, I'm up for it.

[SheerLuck]

Anyone can post all they want, but keeping things on track here doesn't mean we will be inclined to respond to continually argue points with them. I think we have wasted a lot of effort and time by doing this while it has gotten us nowhere! Why continue doing something that isn't working and bringing the case any further ahead? Makes no sense to me.

Blink, I think you have a great idea as a new place to start. We can get to work on that while you enjoy yourself. You have earned a break! :)

Good luck SS. I hope you or others can find something here, but I think as you look closer to each of these cases; you'll see that the hypothermia links I posted might not be throwing you off track. Hypothermia and alcohol might explain most of this. It only takes minutes to drown in cold water if a kid goes under; I never realized hypothermia was that fast, but even a 24 marine died in just minutes. I think if Gannon had done his homework BEFORE mortgaging his house; he would have know there is nothing "preposterious" as he put it; about 4 or 5 young men dieing from alcohol related drownings each year. If all of us had known that 24 Wisonsin kids died the past 30 years from drowning; we wouldn't have been so surprised by 8 Wisonsindrownings in 11 years. And if we were told that Sinsinawa was written 4 years before the murder on Sinsinawa Avenue; it would not have been such a compelling clue. For now I'll devote a bit of time to the Szostak case because thats the case that looks most likely to be foul play. I'll check here to see if any new ideas develop, but this case is closed as I see it.

[SeriouslySearching]

Great! Now we can move on to other things we haven't already covered fully in other cases here on the board! :)

[RR0004]

While I was searching for information on Brittany Zimmerman last night, I came across a news report of a young man in Wisconsin- about 30 yrs. old IIRC, who was missing, but his car was located near a river and his jacket (and something else, I believe) found as well. I tried to go back and locate it, but not luck yet. Everytime, I put in search clues I get US!! I believe the river began with a "D". Anyone hear of this? It had to be some time this past Spring. I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking it!

[SeriouslySearching]

I believe I do recall a case like the one you are describing...but I don't recall the name either. Maybe someone else will remember.

[Blink34]

Sugar britches RR-
I think your right, but I think the man was FROM Wisconsin originally and "drowned elsewhere"- I just remember thinking "OMG" he is from Wisconsin..

[SheerLuck]

Sl- I am happy to discuss ANY opinions based on facts that further the investigation of these occurances. That being said, know that you post to be combative with your meritless and whimsical opinions, look above as an example. Do you sincerely belive that people on this thread are relying on press accounts just as you are? Or do you think that maybe some of us have really done the diligence? This is not about being right, this is about compassion, justice, and prevention. You are clear that iyo, you believe there is an alcohol problem and some are accidents, some are suicides.. I have duly noted your final opinion/analysis, and wish you "luck" as there is clearly nothing left for you to say hear, with no malice on my part. I /we just don't agree and would like to further our discussion without your apparent antagonism. What if this were your son?

I'm not combative at all. I simply did a lot of research and disagree with you and it bothers you. I've outlined a very strong case that Gannon's main premise was based on the flawed idea that it was unusual that 4 or 5 young males die every year from drowning and hypothermia. I've also added that KTSP waited 9 months to run the story on rating sweeps week, which anyone with common sense knows is very suspect. Here's my case and it's not combative.

I posted lnks to show hypothermia can kill within minutes

I posted links to show young males die in drowning deaths at a 4-1 ratio greater than women

I posted links to show that young males commit suicide at a 4-1 ratio greater than young women

I posted a link to show 24 young males have died from accidental drownings in the past 30 years in Wisconsin

I posted a link to show Wisconsin has students monitoring the waters every night until 4:00 a.m. and no kid has drowned since that began; due in part because they've led a lot of kids away from the rivers who were heading right for the river. And 1 young girl even said that at night, the river looks just like pavement from a short distance

I posted links to show that GHB is now a very popular recreational drug

And I've posted many of the young men's footprints capsules to show the BAC's are 2 or 3 times the legal drinking limit in many of these young men

I'm not combative at all; I'm a realist and I know that until better alcohol and drug awareness is strongly addressed; we'll continue to lose a handful of young college kids every year due to accidental drowning and/or hypothermia. And from Shadows interesting news links; I would guess the stats will slowly show an uptick of young females becoming victims of alcohol related accidents. I wish everyone here luck and will check back from time to time to see if anything ever connects, but for now I've concluded there is no serial murder case, so I'll wish everyone the best.

[Blink34]

SL-

Wishing you the best as well, but to clarify, I most certainly am not "bothered" by your dissenting opinion, happens all the time to all of us, this is not personal.
As far as the "combative" issue, you should check your earlier posts, you actually are a "self-described "combative, or I would not have used the characterization, it's about the post, not the poster for me.

Best-
B

[Blink34]

Peace was unaware of this thread, please welcome him/her, I brought this post over to address..

Peace- where did you see the LK info you are referencing about holidays- can you provide a link? Just an fyi, I do not believe you are supposed to post links from alternative blogs on here so I deleted it below from your original post) Thanks.

Originally Posted by Peace261 http://websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2321952#post2321952)
Based on the PI and LE investigation regarding the "latin kings" and their possible involvement with the smiley face drownings;

(deleted as is a webblogaddress)

.... a stretch..but what about a possible connection with the Latin Kings?

- The detectives are convinced its some sort of "gang" like group with a hierarchy
- Smiley faces are typically yellow and black, which are the latin king colors.
- Tommy Booth (PA) was last seen talking to two hispanic girls
- Brian Shaffer (OH) was last seen on a security camera talking to two girls (possibly hispanic?)
- Girls are likely involved since it would be easy for them (especially two girls) one could distract the guy while the other slips something into his drink (GHB or some other type of drug)
- Gangs almost always have girl members and certain initiations, this could be how they get into the gang.
There are other connections to this theory and I'm sure some of you could expand on this. Anyone else's thoughts on this?
Quoting: Ithaca College Student 448154


I just googled latin+king+gang. Their symbol is a crown. Didn't some of the smiley faces have crowns?
They also have holidays Jan.6, first week of March, and many others. Will have to check if any of these dates match days the college men went missing.

They also have a weird saying, "5 crowning, 6 drowning". Creepy.They also have chapters in 34 states, and yes, Illinois, Indiana, NY, Wisconsin, etc.

Nick was reported missing on February 5 .... and may have drowned on the 6!

Too creepy.

Peace.

[Peace261]

Peace was unaware of this thread, please welcome him/her, I brought this post over to address..

Peace- where did you see the LK info you are referencing about holidays- can you provide a link? Just an fyi, I do not believe you are supposed to post links from alternative blogs on here so I deleted it below from your original post) Thanks.

Originally Posted by Peace261 http://websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2321952#post2321952)
Based on the PI and LE investigation regarding the "latin kings" and their possible involvement with the smiley face drownings;

(deleted as is a webblogaddress)

.... a stretch..but what about a possible connection with the Latin Kings?

- The detectives are convinced its some sort of "gang" like group with a hierarchy
- Smiley faces are typically yellow and black, which are the latin king colors.
- Tommy Booth (PA) was last seen talking to two hispanic girls
- Brian Shaffer (OH) was last seen on a security camera talking to two girls (possibly hispanic?)
- Girls are likely involved since it would be easy for them (especially two girls) one could distract the guy while the other slips something into his drink (GHB or some other type of drug)
- Gangs almost always have girl members and certain initiations, this could be how they get into the gang.
There are other connections to this theory and I'm sure some of you could expand on this. Anyone else's thoughts on this?
Quoting: Ithaca College Student 448154


I just googled latin+king+gang. Their symbol is a crown. Didn't some of the smiley faces have crowns?
They also have holidays Jan.6, first week of March, and many others. Will have to check if any of these dates match days the college men went missing.

They also have a weird saying, "5 crowning, 6 drowning". Creepy.They also have chapters in 34 states, and yes, Illinois, Indiana, NY, Wisconsin, etc.

Nick was reported missing on February 5 .... and may have drowned on the 6!

Too creepy.

Peace.

Sorry ... overlooked any linking from other sites ... was searching the web for possible links to "hazing, initiations, gangs" and what connection there may be with missing male college students and found a site similar to web slueths that is talking about the smiley face connections ... and had a post related to Nick G. and Vermont .... ( it is copy posted above ) .... I did not search out the gang - Latin Kings ... the poster above did and mentioned that gangs have initiation rites ... holidays or anniversary dates that symbolize deceased gang members .... etc.

Very creepy.

[Blink34]

Got it, thanks for the clarification, that was kinda my point, I did the same searches and did not come up with that info, whatsoever, but did note it on the site you mentioned, which is notorious for anonymous riff raff.
Unfortunately as alot of others on here can tell you, we have had, and seen, a slew of "posters" that are carrying an agenda other than helping to solve these cases. Some of the stuff I have been reading over the last 2 days is unerving- have you checked out the cult theory thread here?

[DeltaDawn]

http://www.gangsorus.com/numbers.html

snip/

5 - Number symbolic to People Nation

The following slang terms are Blood terms, used to disrespect Crips and the Folk Nation 5 BAGGIN 6/ HANGIN
5 FLAGGIN 6/ DRAGGIN
5 POPPIN 6/ DROPPIN
5 BUCKIN 6/ DUCKIN
5 FLYIN 6/ DIEIN
5 ALIVE 6/ MUST DIE
5 cKlippin 6 DRIPPIN`
5 GUNNIN`6 RUNNIN`
5 PIMPIN` 6 LIMPIN`
5 LEADIN` 6 BLEADIN`

5 in the sky.....6 must die - Revenge; a People Nation member was killed - a retaliation against the Folks Nation will take place

/snip

Actually I thought the grafitti looked more like Crips grafitti then LK in Nick's case and Tommy's, but I could be wrong.

[Peace261]

Got it, thanks for the clarification, that was kinda my point, I did the same searches and did not come up with that info, whatsoever, but did note it on the site you mentioned, which is notorious for anonymous riff raff.
Unfortunately as alot of others on here can tell you, we have had, and seen, a slew of "posters" that are carrying an agenda other than helping to solve these cases. Some of the stuff I have been reading over the last 2 days is unerving- have you checked out the cult theory thread here?

Thanks .... not sure I want to know any more .... this story is amazing.

Peace.

[Peace261]

http://www.gangsorus.com/numbers.html

snip/

5 - Number symbolic to People Nation

The following slang terms are Blood terms, used to disrespect Crips and the Folk Nation 5 BAGGIN 6/ HANGIN
5 FLAGGIN 6/ DRAGGIN
5 POPPIN 6/ DROPPIN
5 BUCKIN 6/ DUCKIN
5 FLYIN 6/ DIEIN
5 ALIVE 6/ MUST DIE
5 cKlippin 6 DRIPPIN`
5 GUNNIN`6 RUNNIN`
5 PIMPIN` 6 LIMPIN`
5 LEADIN` 6 BLEADIN`

5 in the sky.....6 must die - Revenge; a People Nation member was killed - a retaliation against the Folks Nation will take place

/snip

Actually I thought the grafitti looked more like Crips grafitti then LK in Nick's case and Tommy's, but I could be wrong.

Is this for real .... ? I am beginging to get deludged with crazy stuff.

Peace.

[RR0004]

Peace mentioned on another thread that there should be a task force set up by HS. I'm beginning to think that something is going on behind the scenes. It was alluded to the other night on AMW when they were discussing Lindsay Harris. My ears perked up...it seems that the FBI is reviewing/compiling/updating (?) MPs and it was as a result they were able to finally get the DNA match. I think they're feeling some kind of pressure. Perhaps, enough to start looking at all these deaths more carefully as well. I went on a Police Blog a while back and they were discussing the "Smiley Face" killers. A lot of the banter was about the lack of cooperation between LE agencies, whether it be from state to state or state to federal. No one wants to share info- which we all know by now. But, I have to believe that this is a big enough deal that they are working on it. Am I being naive?

[DeltaDawn]

Is this for real .... ? I am beginging to get deludged with crazy stuff.

Peace.


This was just a follow up to the other info..it is for real..click the link it is about gangs and their symbols..that is from a page specifically about numbers meanings in relation to gangs.

[Blink34]

Peace mentioned on another thread that there should be a task force set up by HS. I'm beginning to think that something is going on behind the scenes. It was alluded to the other night on AMW when they were discussing Lindsay Harris. My ears perked up...it seems that the FBI is reviewing/compiling/updating (?) MPs and it was as a result they were able to finally get the DNA match. I think they're feeling some kind of pressure. Perhaps, enough to start looking at all these deaths more carefully as well. I went on a Police Blog a while back and they were discussing the "Smiley Face" killers. A lot of the banter was about the lack of cooperation between LE agencies, whether it be from state to state or state to federal. No one wants to share info- which we all know by now. But, I have to believe that this is a big enough deal that they are working on it. Am I being naive?

HS HAS a specific department not dedicated to MP, but to, shall we say, "religious" and or zealout activity. Duarte is a member of HS, but not in this area.

[Peace261]

Peace mentioned on another thread that there should be a task force set up by HS. I'm beginning to think that something is going on behind the scenes. It was alluded to the other night on AMW when they were discussing Lindsay Harris. My ears perked up...it seems that the FBI is reviewing/compiling/updating (?) MPs and it was as a result they were able to finally get the DNA match. I think they're feeling some kind of pressure. Perhaps, enough to start looking at all these deaths more carefully as well. I went on a Police Blog a while back and they were discussing the "Smiley Face" killers. A lot of the banter was about the lack of cooperation between LE agencies, whether it be from state to state or state to federal. No one wants to share info- which we all know by now. But, I have to believe that this is a big enough deal that they are working on it. Am I being naive?

Just a thought ... but has LE or the investigative community in general looked into the possiblility that the "smiley face killers" could actually be a group of "disbanned brothers connected to underground fraternities"? So many of these historical fraternities have been forced to "disband' or change their traditional make-up in order to meet new "diversity guidelines" that have come into play over the past 10-15 years. I was able to find a couple of articles related to how these fraternities are going "underground" in order to sustain their tradition.

Also ... these killings could also be "anger" and retaliation at the community at large for forcing them to turn into "social houses" and for having to pay HUGE fines fines for hazing violations, accidents, and other related violations. Many have had to close down or sell off their assets to pay these fines.

Most recent case would be a Plattsburg State University Fraternity ..... multi-million dollar fine in December 2007 ... followed by 2 possible smilely face drownings - 1 in New York and 1 in Millsbury, VT. Both have been discussed as possibly related.

Peace.

[Peace261]

Just a thought ... but has LE or the investigative community in general looked into the possiblility that the "smiley face killers" could actually be a group of "disbanned brothers connected to underground fraternities"? So many of these historical fraternities have been forced to "disband' or change their traditional make-up in order to meet new "diversity guidelines" that have come into play over the past 10-15 years. I was able to find a couple of articles related to how these fraternities are going "underground" in order to sustain their tradition.

Also ... these killings could also be "anger" and retaliation at the community at large for forcing them to turn into "social houses" and for having to pay HUGE fines fines for hazing violations, accidents, and other related violations. Many have had to close down or sell off their assets to pay these fines.

Most recent case would be a Plattsburg State University Fraternity ..... multi-million dollar fine in December 2007 ... followed by 2 possible smilely face drownings - 1 in New York and 1 in Millsbury, VT. Both have been discussed as possibly related.

Peace.

Related links to my theory ---
NY Times: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C05EED71E39F93AA1575BC0A9629582 60

Middlebury FRATS go underground : http://www.antipasministries.com/html/file0000166.htm

Plattsburg State Lawsuit:
http://www.wptz.com/news/14778126/detail.html

Peace.

[DeltaDawn]

Interesting theories. But gentlemen that were not college students, how would they fit into this pattern? Would they have been killed as part of a hazing, where a student had to kill to join the frat?

The reason why I ask is that to me, the crime scenes involving Tommy Booth and Chris Jenkins are very similiar in the postioning of their bodies. Neither would have fallen into the water and assumed this position. Floating on their backs with their arms crossed over their chests. All clothing still intact. Cell phones being the only items missing. This says to me they were postioned by someone in the water to appear similiar. Tommy was not in college so he would not have been applying to a fraternity.

[DeltaDawn]

Geez I never wnated to be a thread killer.. Someone else has to have imput on this. Come on now folks..lets see what we can find on some of these crimes that have similiar marks.

[Peace261]

Geez I never wnated to be a thread killer.. Someone else has to have imput on this. Come on now folks..lets see what we can find on some of these crimes that have similiar marks.

Still here Delta .... was researching a couple of related cases in more detail ... the Nick Garza (Middlebury, VT), a similar drowning of a Plattsburg State Univeristy student, Justin Gaines (Gainesville College, Georgia), Kyle Fleschman (Charlotte, NC), and medical student from Ohio State.

2 were recently found ... but what is interesting is the number of cases where they are still "missing" yet .... under similar circumstances .... out with friends (drinking .... alone, make cell calls ... disappear) and another wierd case of a teen who drove his car into a ditch .... called his family and was on his cell phone for 45 minutes and then .... gone. They have yet to find him ????

Sorry ... I just dont remember all of the names for this reply.

Something is going on .... people just dont disappear or all end up in the water ......

Peace

[Blink34]

Related links to my theory ---
NY Times: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C05EED71E39F93AA1575BC0A9629582 60

Middlebury FRATS go underground : http://www.antipasministries.com/html/file0000166.htm

Plattsburg State Lawsuit:
http://www.wptz.com/news/14778126/detail.html

Peace.

I believe Josh S was a Platt student

[Blink34]

Interesting theories. But gentlemen that were not college students, how would they fit into this pattern? Would they have been killed as part of a hazing, where a student had to kill to join the frat?

The reason why I ask is that to me, the crime scenes involving Tommy Booth and Chris Jenkins are very similiar in the postioning of their bodies. Neither would have fallen into the water and assumed this position. Floating on their backs with their arms crossed over their chests. All clothing still intact. Cell phones being the only items missing. This says to me they were postioned by someone in the water to appear similiar. Tommy was not in college so he would not have been applying to a fraternity.

DD- I know this has been mentioned before, but can you remind me where the info that Tommy Booth was "posed" came from- I have researched that again and again and I can't confirm it.

[Blink34]

Still here Delta .... was researching a couple of related cases in more detail ... the Nick Garza (Middlebury, VT), a similar drowning of a Plattsburg State Univeristy student, Justin Gaines (Gainesville College, Georgia), Kyle Fleschman (Charlotte, NC), and medical student from Ohio State.

2 were recently found ... but what is interesting is the number of cases where they are still "missing" yet .... under similar circumstances .... out with friends (drinking .... alone, make cell calls ... disappear) and another wierd case of a teen who drove his car into a ditch .... called his family and was on his cell phone for 45 minutes and then .... gone. They have yet to find him ????

Sorry ... I just dont remember all of the names for this reply.

Something is going on .... people just dont disappear or all end up in the water ......

Peace

Ok, Im supposed to be on vacay and am sneaking this quick post-

Can anyone find out anymore about Thomas Chiang, the suspect in the Swarthmore attempted abduction?? Here's where I am going with this-
I think that the key to solving lies in those that got away, and am planning to start my list there.

[fran]

Geez I never wnated to be a thread killer.. Someone else has to have imput on this. Come on now folks..lets see what we can find on some of these crimes that have similiar marks.

OK, I'll throw something out.

Josh Guimond and Chris Jenkins.

Study them. There's a connection that should NOT be there.

Why?:confused:

http://www.vanceholmes.com/court/trial_missing_students.html

Google is your friend.

JMHO
fran

[Roxye]

Hmmm, Fran. Are you saying someone is attributing a connection between the two that isn't really a connection at all? I've read over the link several times over the last few years and haven't picked up on anything obvious, but then, I have read so much about each of these boys sometimes it all kinda melds together.

Guess I am gonna hop back and study up on these two again. See if I might be missing something.

Btw, I like the underground frat idea. It's another avenue to explore in the least. Even the men who drown that were not in college could have fallen victim to this sort of thing easily. The only problem I have with this scenario, how do they abduct these men so easily? Without any signs of struggle or bruising left on the bodies? It would have to be an underground frat (society) that allowed women into it. But then again, maybe some drugging was involved.

[fran]

Hmmm, Fran. Are you saying someone is attributing a connection between the two that isn't really a connection at all? I've read over the link several times over the last few years and haven't picked up on anything obvious, but then, I have read so much about each of these boys sometimes it all kinda melds together.

Guess I am gonna hop back and study up on these two again. See if I might be missing something.

Btw, I like the underground frat idea. It's another avenue to explore in the least. Even the men who drown that were not in college could have fallen victim to this sort of thing easily. The only problem I have with this scenario, how do they abduct these men so easily? Without any signs of struggle or bruising left on the bodies? It would have to be an underground frat (society) that allowed women into it. But then again, maybe some drugging was involved.

Hi Roxye! :)

No, what I'm saying is there IS a connection between Josh and Chris, but how? They went to two different schools and missing in two different towns or cities.:confused:

I gave you a link to another blog,....... but don't stop there.

Google is your friend! ;)

fran

[Roxye]

Hi Roxye! :)

No, what I'm saying is there IS a connection between Josh and Chris, but how? They went to two different schools and missing in two different towns or cities.:confused:

I gave you a link to another blog,....... but don't stop there.

Google is your friend! ;)

fran

LOL GOOD! I always thought Josh and Chris (more recently Nick) where the three that would bring this mystery to an end. There is something about those three that are eerily similar.

[Peace261]

LOL GOOD! I always thought Josh and Chris (more recently Nick) where the three that would bring this mystery to an end. There is something about those three that are eerily similar.

I agree ... that these 3 appear to be somewhat similar in circumstances and could lead to a connection to others ....

Investigating further.

Peace

[Peace261]

Ok, Im supposed to be on vacay and am sneaking this quick post-

Can anyone find out anymore about Thomas Chiang, the suspect in the Swarthmore attempted abduction?? Here's where I am going with this-
I think that the key to solving lies in those that got away, and am planning to start my list there.

Checking it out ....

Peace

[Peace261]

Student escapes abduction ---- suspect captured ;

http://www.swarthmorephoenix.com/2008/05/02/news/attempted-kidnapping

Peace

[Peace261]

Swarthmore University just outside of Philadelphia, PA:

Swarthmore, one of the nation's finest institutions of higher learning, is a college like no other. Private, yet open to all regardless of financial need. American, yet decidedly global in outlook and diversity, drawing students from around the world and all 50 states. Small, yet with the financial strength to offer students and faculty generous resources to push their own and the world's understanding of disciplines from Arabic to plasma physics, from microbiology to dance, from engineering to art history.

http://www.swarthmore.edu/x18.xml

Peace

[Peace261]

Ok, Im supposed to be on vacay and am sneaking this quick post-

Can anyone find out anymore about Thomas Chiang, the suspect in the Swarthmore attempted abduction?? Here's where I am going with this-
I think that the key to solving lies in those that got away, and am planning to start my list there.

A hearing was scheduled for June 2 ... the suspect was NOT a student on this campus .... in fact from traveled "up" from Virginia .... why was he at this campus ... and @ 2am driving through looking for the president's residence ?? He was a dental student from Virginia .. still trying to find what school ... and what business he had being in PA.

He was by himself .... in the auto ... however .. not sure if there were others waiting somewhere else. Multiple charges .... pending. Gang affiliation ??

Peace.

[Peace261]

A hearing was scheduled for June 2 ... the suspect was NOT a student on this campus .... in fact from traveled "up" from Virginia .... why was he at this campus ... and @ 2am driving through looking for the president's residence ?? He was a dental student from Virginia .. still trying to find what school ... and what business he had being in PA.

He was by himself .... in the auto ... however .. not sure if there were others waiting somewhere else. Multiple charges .... pending. Gang affiliation ??

Peace.

Who is Thomas T. Chiang ???:

Chiang, who was arraigned this morning, has been charged with one felony: attempted kidnapping; and eight misdemeanors: unlawful restraint, false imprisonment, resisting arrest, disorderly conduct, fleeing and eluding, reckless driving, vehicles required to be right, and two red lights. If convicted, he faces up to 10 years in prison for these offenses, according to Thomas. The motive for these crimes is not yet known.

From Virginia ... ????

Where is the follow-up news reports on this suspect .... ??

Peace.

[fran]

Who is Thomas T. Chiang ???:

Chiang, who was arraigned this morning, has been charged with one felony: attempted kidnapping; and eight misdemeanors: unlawful restraint, false imprisonment, resisting arrest, disorderly conduct, fleeing and eluding, reckless driving, vehicles required to be right, and two red lights. If convicted, he faces up to 10 years in prison for these offenses, according to Thomas. The motive for these crimes is not yet known.

From Virginia ... ????

Where is the follow-up news reports on this suspect .... ??

Peace.

Do you have a link to this quote?

Thanks,
fran

[Peace261]

Do you have a link to this quote?

Thanks,
fran


FYI ..... middle of news report ....

http://www.swarthmorephoenix.com/2008/05/02/news/attempted-kidnapping

Peace

[Blink34]

Checking it out ....

Peace

Sorry Peace, I should have been more specific, there is a thread on here, I think in possible vics PA, It is current with all the data you provided on here.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2270299#post2270299

What I was looking for was anything post 6/2/08. As of last week, there had been zero updates.

TC is/was a dentistry student at Temple. What I found MOST bizarre, is that a man on his own would try to abduct another guy, and there was never any mention of what was found in his car- How did he expect to subdue him? Perhpas he tossed things out- was the route searched??

[Blink34]

Hi Roxye! :)

No, what I'm saying is there IS a connection between Josh and Chris, but how? They went to two different schools and missing in two different towns or cities.:confused:

I gave you a link to another blog,....... but don't stop there.

Google is your friend! ;)

fran

Fran-
are you referring to the scent dogs at the monastary?

[daisygirl]

Here is an update on KSTP about the investigation:
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S497869.shtml?cat=1

In regards to the Tommy Booth Case, the Medical Examiner has done new tests to see if foul play was involved.

[fran]

FYI ..... middle of news report ....

http://www.swarthmorephoenix.com/2008/05/02/news/attempted-kidnapping

Peace

Oh, thanks Peace.

FWIW, I think this is an isolated incident. I could be wrong but I think this guy just has a few problems. IIRC, LE said he's going to go through drug/alcohol treatment.

JMHO
fran

PS......I would like to know what his motive and intentions were though.....fran

[fran]

Fran-
are you referring to the scent dogs at the monastary?

Yes, Blink.

Why would Chris' scent be there? He disappeared from miles away, correct?

Hope you're enjoying your vacation! :)

fran

[fran]

Here is an update on KSTP about the investigation:
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S497869.shtml?cat=1

In regards to the Tommy Booth Case, the Medical Examiner has done new tests to see if foul play was involved.

Thanks daisygirl. It'll be interesting to see what the results are for Tommy Booth. His case is quite puzzling. He disappeared from inside the bar. Why?

I agree with the article about Brandon Swanson. He most likely is not connected. I'd sure like to know where he is though! His poor family. :(

JMHO
fran

[Peace261]

Here is an update on KSTP about the investigation:
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S497869.shtml?cat=1

In regards to the Tommy Booth Case, the Medical Examiner has done new tests to see if foul play was involved.

Older link .. but still relevant:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05252008/news/regionalnews/smiley_slay_links_112475.htm

Peace

[Peace261]

Older link .. but still relevant:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05252008/news/regionalnews/smiley_slay_links_112475.htm

Peace

And this link too ... the response that he was confused and fell in river??

He was on the phone with his family for 45 minutes telling them where he was ..... how is it everyone is falling into ... rivers, lakes ... pools?

http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail6162.cfm?Id=0,70890

Peace.

[fran]

And this link too ... the response that he was confused and fell in river??

He was on the phone with his family for 45 minutes telling them where he was ..... how is it everyone is falling into ... rivers, lakes ... pools?

http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail6162.cfm?Id=0,70890

Peace.

I was a little puzzled at first on this case. But after reading the dad's description of his last phone call with his son, I truly believe Brandon fell either into a well that was hidden, or maybe even water. Brandon was walking out in the country in the dead of night. Imagine not being able to see anything. He described his surroundings, fences etc, and I believe he mentioned he was taking a short-cut across an open field. At the end of the conversation Brandon said he could hear water.........then an expliative,........silence.

I don't like thinking it, but I believe he met with an untimely accident. I pray they locate him soon. :(

JMHO
fran

[RR0004]

A hearing was scheduled for June 2 ... the suspect was NOT a student on this campus .... in fact from traveled "up" from Virginia .... why was he at this campus ... and @ 2am driving through looking for the president's residence ?? He was a dental student from Virginia .. still trying to find what school ... and what business he had being in PA.

He was by himself .... in the auto ... however .. not sure if there were others waiting somewhere else. Multiple charges .... pending. Gang affiliation ??

Peace.
I thought the suspect had a connection to Philadelphia.

[Peace261]

I thought the suspect had a connection to Philadelphia.

Initial news reports stated he traveled up from Virginia .. however .. also stated was a student at Temple University in Philly. Not sure of the connection.

Peace

[Blink34]

I was a little puzzled at first on this case. But after reading the dad's description of his last phone call with his son, I truly believe Brandon fell either into a well that was hidden, or maybe even water. Brandon was walking out in the country in the dead of night. Imagine not being able to see anything. He described his surroundings, fences etc, and I believe he mentioned he was taking a short-cut across an open field. At the end of the conversation Brandon said he could hear water.........then an expliative,........silence.

I don't like thinking it, but I believe he met with an untimely accident. I pray they locate him soon. :(

JMHO
fran

But wasnt there the issue his Dad said he sounded confused about where he was and that cell phone pings had him 45 min away from where his car was?

[Blink34]

Initial news reports stated he traveled up from Virginia .. however .. also stated was a student at Temple University in Philly. Not sure of the connection.

Peace

I read he was a dental student at Temple, additionally a contact who I am aware has a connection with the DA office has stated a witness came forward and said he was seen on another campus earlier in the evening with the same M.O.; which is why I find this case so intriguing, every fiber in my being tells me it is connected; at some point someone is bound to make a mistake and either miscalculate, or try something as a "rogue" to the group- could this be it?

[Blink34]

Yes, Blink.

Why would Chris' scent be there? He disappeared from miles away, correct?

Hope you're enjoying your vacation! :)

fran

The problem with that is that if the scent dogs used to look for Chris were used to look for him PREVIOUSLY, the "hit" is unreliable, a fresh dog would need to be used. Unfortunately as was in Mike's case, I learned from some of the best handlers in the world there are many variables when using k9's. I would love to heart someone with first hand knowledge of that area comment on the findings of the monastary.

Thanks, I am, but am going to need a vacation from my vacation- our kids don't stop!!

[fran]

But wasnt there the issue his Dad said he sounded confused about where he was and that cell phone pings had him 45 min away from where his car was?

I believe that the difference of location was from where Brandon had told his dad he was and where they found his car. I believe it was following the pings that enable them to locate the car.

JMHO
fran

[DeltaDawn]

DD- I know this has been mentioned before, but can you remind me where the info that Tommy Booth was "posed" came from- I have researched that again and again and I can't confirm it.

It came from denisenevergivesup. She is Tommy Booth's cousin and she posted a few times on here. She posted the info about Tommy's body position over on the godlikeproductions board on their thread about the Smiley Faces Murders. After she came here I pm'd her asking about the positioning. She verified that his arms were crossed across his chest and he was biting his lower lip. Sorry I didn't save the pm.

[looneymama]

It came from denisenevergivesup. She is Tommy Booth's cousin and she posted a few times on here. She posted the info about Tommy's body position over on the godlikeproductions board on their thread about the Smiley Faces Murders. After she came here I pm'd her asking about the positioning. She verified that his arms were crossed across his chest and he was biting his lower lip. Sorry I didn't save the pm.

I remember her saying that too. Didn't she say he was biting his lower lip like he was cold?

[DeltaDawn]

I remember her saying that too. Didn't she say he was biting his lower lip like he was cold?


Yes she did say that. I think that his body being positioned like that and Chris Jenkins body also having his arms crossed and all clothing intact is too much of a coinky dink..they were in different states and years apart.

[daisygirl]

Another update on KSTP regarding a possible new case connected to the smiley face killers: http://kstp.com/article/stories/S502294.shtml?cat=1

2005 disappearance is getting new attention because of the Smiley Face Killer theory. It's a story of another college-aged man walking out of a bar and vanishing. Unlike many of these missing person cases that I've been reporting on and blogging about, this man's body has never been recovered.

Keith Ryan a 22-year-old from Springfield, Illinois was last seen on April 12, 2005. After a night of drinking in Peoria, Ryan told his friends that he needed some fresh air. He never returned. According to reports, surveillance cameras captured him walking alone on city streets.

His father, a retired Decatur Police Department Detective, has always suspected foul play. He is now considering that his son's disappearance is connected to 40 others across the country.

Ryan heard about the Smiley Face Killer Theory that we first reported in a 5 Eyewitness News Investigation in April. Since then, he's searched along the river for signs of a smiley face.

According to a new article in a Peoria newspaper, retired New York Detective, Kevin Gannon is now working with Ryan. The two are trying to gather police reports to piece together new evidence. In the article, Roger Ryan says, "I sent (Gannon) an e-mail the day I saw an article about the 'Smiley' case murders. He's interested in it and is going to try and connect" his son's case with the others.

Peoria detectives also heard about the Smiley Face Killer theory and considered it in the Ryan case. The newspaper reports that the Peoria detectives determined that there is no evidence to suggest a connection.

[daisygirl]

Here's another link about the disapperance of Keith Ryan.

http://www.pjstar.com/news/x875596645/Does-mans-vanishing-act-have-Smiley-connection

[looneymama]

another son of a cop :(

[fran]

another son of a cop :(


and another bartender. :(

[daisygirl]

another son of a cop :(

I noticed that right away too! Is there a lot of victims that have parents in the LE? It jumped out at me right away. The only other victim that I can remember off hand was Matt Kruziki. His dad was a former Sheriff.

[RR0004]

What a handsome young man...so much promise...these families deserve to bring their children home.

[KR2tonenow]

What do all these young men, 40 in all, 5 states, have in common: some with the smiley face grafitti some not.

1/ Athletic college student/male/good looking
2/ drinking in a bar and vanishing afterward

I am sure there had to be witnesses. These men had to be talking, flirting with many people in these bars.

Is there a map made up of all 40 deaths yet?

Which ones had the smiley face graffiti on them? What's the percentage?

What was the sexual orientation of these me?

Whether these men were seen or receiving emails prior to their disappearance? Were all these men's computers checked, college outside activities checked?

What else links them?

[ArizonaGiGi]

I remember her saying that too. Didn't she say he was biting his lower lip like he was cold?


I am wondering if the guys were kidnapped and put in a chest type freezer alive, then later taken out to the lakes, rivers and ponds and slipped into the water??? just a thought
(Or maybe put them into a bobtail type freezer truck, alive but bound ??) Terrible thought and terrible way to die.

[SheerLuck]

What do all these young men, 40 in all, 5 states, have in common: some with the smiley face grafitti some not.

1/ Athletic college student/male/good looking
2/ drinking in a bar and vanishing afterward

I am sure there had to be witnesses. These men had to be talking, flirting with many people in these bars.

Is there a map made up of all 40 deaths yet?

Which ones had the smiley face graffiti on them? What's the percentage?

What was the sexual orientation of these men?

I'd like know more!

The ONLY thing all these young men have in common is that every single one of them was drinking and they died from drowning and/or hypothermia. And many were 2 to 3 times the legal limit or more. Many of them were NOT athletic; many of them were NOT excellent students and some were not even in college. Obviously if a kid is unathletic the family won't say he was unathletic or if his grades were sub par it won't be mentioned. Thats why many kids are not described as being athletic or academically advanced. But for KTSP and their ratings grab it sounds juicy to say all 40 were intelligient and also athletic. The kids families who died from foul play have seen their chances of justice fall back; due to this silly, unsubsantiated money grab that Gannon and KTSP have initiated. The ONLY killers in all but a few of these cases is alcohol, hypothermia and drowning. This is why Homeland Security; who employs Duarte as a supervisor; has completely rejected Gannon and Duarte's idea and also why the FBI and almost every police unit; has also rejected Gannon and Duarte's idea. KTSP held the story for 9 months as more kids died from 9/07 to 5/08 because this story was simply a sweep weeks rating money grab. There was no concern among KTSP or Gannon as to the safety of kids or they would have released the story PRIOR to Septrember of 2007; since KTSP got the story in the summer of 2007. Advertising dollars throughout the year are based in large part on the rating sweeps week numbers and KTSP hit a home run with their multi part smiley face killer story. And the "compelling" clue of Sinsinawa is not compelling at all because it was written at a Michigan drowning site 4 years BEFORE the actual drowning in Iowa along Sinsinawa Avenue. Of course Gannon and KTSP didn't say there was a 4 year separation in time. Again; Hypothermia kills in minutes and if a kid falls in and gulps water he'll go under and be dead in less than a minute often; he'll never resurface. It's a natuaral reflex for anyone to gulp water when they accidentally fall in water. Within minutes all body muscles tighten and the ability to swim is near impossible; and alcohol adds greatly to the muscle weakness and the disorientation as the body temperature quickly drops. Low body fat and athletic men will have their body temps drop much faster that the average person; as will children. There is not 1 shred of evidence at any bar or drowning site; of any foul play; except for Chris Jenkins. Not 1 bartender or friend has come forward with any suspicion about any one in any bar who they thought were behind a drowning death; yet Gannon says these crimes were mostly initiated INSIDE the bar. This is near impossible to believe that not one bar employee or friend had any suspicion of anyone they saw inside any bar; and that not 1 video inside a bar or outside a bar captured any of these kids getting abducted or slipped some GHB on camera. Chris Jenkins family spent close to $200,000 to investigate; and its the word of a jailed inmate and his story which greatly helped get it turned to homocide; yet still NO arrests; so even Jenkins is a complete mystery until there's an arrest. Personally I think maybe him, Szostak and maybe 1 or 2 other kids were murdered, but that's it. I continue to read this thread with interest; but there remains NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE of anything but accidental drowning deaths following many hours of drinking. Alcohol, accidental drowning and hypothermia are the only killers!

[RR0004]

The ONLY thing all these young men have in common is that every single one of them was drinking and they died from drowning and/or hypothermia. And many were 2 to 3 times the legal limit or more. Many of them were NOT athletic; many of them were NOT excellent students and some were not even in college. Obviously if a kid is unathletic the family won't say he was unathletic or if his grades were sub par it won't be mentioned. Thats why many kids are not described as being athletic or academically advanced. But for KTSP and their ratings grab it sounds juicy to say all 40 were intelligient and also athletic. The kids families who died from foul play have seen their chances of justice fall back; due to this silly, unsubsantiated money grab that Gannon and KTSP have initiated. The ONLY killers in all but a few of these cases is alcohol, hypothermia and drowning. This is why Homeland Security; who employs Duarte as a supervisor; has completely rejected Gannon and Duarte's idea and also why the FBI and almost every police unit; has also rejected Gannon and Duarte's idea. KTSP held the story for 9 months as more kids died from 9/07 to 5/08 because this story was simply a sweep weeks rating money grab. There was no concern among KTSP or Gannon as to the safety of kids or they would have released the story PRIOR to Septrember of 2007; since KTSP got the story in the summer of 2007. Advertising dollars throughout the year are based in large part on the rating sweeps week numbers and KTSP hit a home run with their multi part smiley face killer story. And the "compelling" clue of Sinsinawa is not compelling at all because it was written at a Michigan drowning site 4 years BEFORE the actual drowning in Iowa along Sinsinawa Avenue. Of course Gannon and KTSP didn't say there was a 4 year separation in time. Again; Hypothermia kills in minutes and if a kid falls in and gulps water he'll go under and be dead in less than a minute often; he'll never resurface. It's a natuaral reflex for anyone to gulp water when they accidentally fall in water. Within minutes all body muscles tighten and the ability to swim is near impossible; and alcohol adds greatly to the muscle weakness and the disorientation as the body temperature quickly drops. Low body fat and athletic men will have their body temps drop much faster that the average person; as will children. There is not 1 shred of evidence at any bar or drowning site; of any foul play; except for Chris Jenkins. Not 1 bartender or friend has come forward with any suspicion about any one in any bar who they thought were behind a drowning death; yet Gannon says these crimes were mostly initiated INSIDE the bar. This is near impossible to believe that not one bar employee or friend had any suspicion of anyone they saw inside any bar; and that not 1 video inside a bar or outside a bar captured any of these kids getting abducted or slipped some GHB on camera. Chris Jenkins family spent close to $200,000 to investigate; and its the word of a jailed inmate and his story which greatly helped get it turned to homocide; yet still NO arrests; so even Jenkins is a complete mystery until there's an arrest. Personally I think maybe him, Szostak and maybe 1 or 2 other kids were murdered, but that's it. I continue to read this thread with interest; but there remains NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE of anything but accidental drowning deaths following many hours of drinking. Alcohol, accidental drowning and hypothermia are the only killers!
We are here to discuss these cases. Though your opinion is sincerely appreciated, IMHO what has been asked by KR2 has not been addressed in your response. We need to stay on topic if we're ever going to make headway. This is the "quiet time" and the best time to put all our heads together and try to answer the questions posed.

[RR0004]

What do all these young men, 40 in all, 5 states, have in common: some with the smiley face grafitti some not.

1/ Athletic college student/male/good looking
2/ drinking in a bar and vanishing afterward

I am sure there had to be witnesses. These men had to be talking, flirting with many people in these bars.

Is there a map made up of all 40 deaths yet?

Which ones had the smiley face graffiti on them? What's the percentage?

What was the sexual orientation of these me?

Whether these men were seen or receiving emails prior to their disappearance? Were all these men's computers checked, college outside activities checked?

What else links them?
I've often wondered if the computers have been put through the necessary forensics. Somehow, I think there is a link there. Unfortunately, because of the circumstances surrounding these young men's deaths (drunk college kids), LE has once, again, "assumed" too much...and looked very little.

[fran]

So much for these are all just young guys out drinking too much and caused their own death or disappearance. Guess this can dispel some of that, I would think. After all, IF this young man wasn't found, we probably would have put him on the list too!:eek:

Oh, wait, that was TWO missing young men. Imagine that, Keith disappeared while walking home alone on 4th of July night.

JMHO
fran

http://www.wbay.com/global/story.asp?s=8647472

WISCONSIN RAPIDS, Wis. (AP) - Two missing men have been found in Saratoga, and police have arrested a third man.

1 of the men found was 23-year-old Keith Karnatz, who disappeared Friday after telling friends he was going to walk home from Fourth of July fireworks in Wisconsin Rapids.





http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080709/APC0101/80709073

Missing men were held captive in central Wisconsin

A $1 million cash bond was set in Wood County Circuit Court this afternoon for 46-year-old Edward J. Lanphear, who police say took two men against their will and held them captive.
Keith Karnatz, 23, of Grand Rapids, who had been missing since Friday, was found Tuesday in Saratoga, a rural town east of Wisconsin Rapids in Wood County.

Another man, reported missing Tuesday in Wisconsin Rapids, was found near the intersection of Mill Road and 52nd Street. Investigators were withholding further information about the second man today.

[fran]

My question is, how long has this guy been doing this?

fran


http://www.waow.com/global/story.asp?s=8648797

Wood County "House of Horrors"

Posted: July 9, 2008 12:11 PM PDT

by Meg Bonacorsi

WOOD COUNTY (WAOW) -- Police identify the second missing man who disappeared from Wisconsin Rapids early Tuesday morning.

Newsline 9 has learned the names of both men, but chooses not to release them due to the nature of this case.

The 21-year-old, awoke hanging up in the garage, according to a probable cause affidavit.

The 21-year-old man reported that he was at a bar, passed out in his car and woke up chained, locked and naked in the garage.

The 21-year-old then escaped from the garage and went to a neighbor's home, where police were notified.

Once police went to the 52nd Street home in the town of Saratoga, they found a 23-year-old man, who was reported missing late Friday night.


<<<<<<<<<<<<more at link>>>>>>>>>>>

[Blink34]

We are here to discuss these cases. Though your opinion is sincerely appreciated, IMHO what has been asked by KR2 has not been addressed in your response. We need to stay on topic if we're ever going to make headway. This is the "quiet time" and the best time to put all our heads together and try to answer the questions posed.

RR is right, as per usual, your opinion is not supported by fact. Let's stay on topic and appreciate those with experience that those of us do not posess.

[SeriouslySearching]

A 23-year-old man was held in Lanphear's home from Saturday until Tuesday, according to an affidavit filed by sheriff's investigators seeking support for Lanphear's arrest. The young man had told friends Friday that he was going to walk home after a fireworks show, the Wisconsin Rapids Daily Tribune reported.

Lanphear was driving the man home when he pulled over, told him he was a police officer and handcuffed him, the affidavit said.

When one of the handcuffs became loose, Lanphear hit the man in the head and knocked him out, the document said. When the man revived, he was chained up in Lanphear's basement.

The affidavit said Lanphear used a knife to cut off the man's clothing and sexually assaulted him at least three times while he was restrained.

~snip~

Another affidavit says that sometime Sunday or Monday a 21-year-old man got drunk at a Wisconsin Rapids bar and passed out in his car, then later woke up naked and hanging in Lanphear's garage by locked chains.

He told authorities Lanphear hit him with a metal pipe and sexually assaulted him. His hands were bound by chains and flex cuffs, and he was blindfolded, the affidavit says.

The 21-year-old man identified his captor, saying Lanphear frequented the same Wisconsin Rapids bar, the documents said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379285,00.html (Bolded by me)

This story jumped out at me. Could it be connected? The men are about the right age. At least one was drinking, but they have not reported on the other one yet. I just think this is something we should look at.

They have a thread on him here and is where I found his myspace page. Look at it closely and tell me if you see anything familiar: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=186412465

The Temple student is another one that should be considered. Do we know any more about that case?! Maybe someone could write the reporter who did that initial story. I want to know everything we can about that guy.

[ArizonaGiGi]

quote; seriouslysearching

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379285,00.html
snip;This story jumped out at me. Could it be connected? The men are about the right age. At least one was drinking, but they have not reported on the other one yet. I just think this is something we should look at.

SS,IIRC none of the missing/found in bodies of water were sexually assaulted?
***********************
snip;They have a thread on him here and is where I found his myspace page. Look at it closely and tell me if you see anything familiar: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=186412465

SS,Okay. I give up. What is familiar? lol
He looks like a real creep but I didn't see much else on there. He doesn't even have a blog (that I could find).

[fran]

I believe we should keep an eye on this case. Who knows how long this guy has been going around Wisconsin doing this. Heck, he had abducted two guys in one weekend. Both young men disappeared just like the young men in this forum. After a night of drinking, alone, outside the bar or walking home alone, late at night or early morning hours.

JMHO
fran



CAUTION TO READER, ADULT CONTENT

http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/assets/pdf/U011247579.PDF

Probable Cause Affidavit.

[fran]

quote; seriouslysearching

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379285,00.html
snip;This story jumped out at me. Could it be connected? The men are about the right age. At least one was drinking, but they have not reported on the other one yet. I just think this is something we should look at.

SS,IIRC none of the missing/found in bodies of water were sexually assaulted?
***********************
snip;They have a thread on him here and is where I found his myspace page. Look at it closely and tell me if you see anything familiar: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=186412465
SS,Okay. I give up. What is familiar? lol
He looks like a real creep but I didn't see much else on there. He doesn't even have a blog (that I could find).


Both of these guys disappeared exactly like many of the young men in this forum.

One had been at a bar. He went to his car and fell asleep in the parking lot. He woke up in an unfamiliar surrounding (suspects home), bound with chains and his clothes removed.

The other victim had been out celebrating the 4th of July with friends, he'd been drinking. When his friends wanted to go to another bar, he decided he wanted to go home. He'd had a great deal to drink. While he walked home, he tried to call a few people to get a ride. They all turned him down. This guy pulled over, offered him a ride, and after he accepted was handcuffed and knocked out. He too woke up inside the suspects residence, and was restrained with chains.

Water destroys evidence plus many of the young men in this forum have disappeared without a trace. IMO, that's most likely what would have happened to these two young men.

We do NOT know yet if the other cases here are in any way connected, but who knows, some may be. I think we should watch this case closely.

JMHO
fran

[fran]

http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080709/WRT0101/80708112

Map shows area connected to Lanphear arrest

[SuziQ]

This guy is scary. Because of lack of serious injuries in most of the drowning cases, I'm not sure he could be connected to the vics that ended up in the water. But he certainly could be connected to the ones who were never found.

[SuziQ]

http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080709/WRT0101/80708112

Map shows area connected to Lanphear arrest


Thanks Fran!

I wonder if this scary dude owns a van?

[fran]

Thanks Fran!

I wonder if this scary dude owns a van?

I don't know about a van SuziQ. But he owned a truck which LE has taken in to go over.

I also read that various jurisdictions are getting together to discuss the case. I think they're going to be contacted by a few other jurisdictions as well. Seems this guy liked to hang out at a number of bars around town and was always with younger guys, ie 20's.

Oh, he's been divorced since about '97.

You're right, he could be responsible for SOME of the disappearances of other young men in and around Wisconsin.

JMHO
fran

[SeriouslySearching]

This guy is scary. Because of lack of serious injuries in most of the drowning cases, I'm not sure he could be connected to the vics that ended up in the water. But he certainly could be connected to the ones who were never found.If the injuries had time to heal after he abducted them...were they looked at as part of the initial crime? He didn't give them a skull fracture, just a bump on the head and a concussion it sounds like. While some of the vics showed up right away...many took months to show up in the water.

[SeriouslySearching]

quote; seriouslysearching

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379285,00.html
snip;This story jumped out at me. Could it be connected? The men are about the right age. At least one was drinking, but they have not reported on the other one yet. I just think this is something we should look at.

SS,IIRC none of the missing/found in bodies of water were sexually assaulted?
***********************Define the sexual assault. Frankly, a bj would never be detected and, like I mentioned before, if there is time between the abduction and when they are found...other wounds could heal. snip;They have a thread on him here and is where I found his myspace page. Look at it closely and tell me if you see anything familiar: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=186412465

SS,Okay. I give up. What is familiar? lol
He looks like a real creep but I didn't see much else on there. He doesn't even have a blog (that I could find).Death metal, heavy metal, and the other "music" he is into look familiar to me and the groups he is associated with also raise a red flag.

How many "wounds" have they taken for granted have been inflicted by debris in the water, too?

[SeriouslySearching]

RR is right, as per usual, your opinion is not supported by fact. Let's stay on topic and appreciate those with experience that those of us do not possess.There is a handy tool we have that will simply allow us the freedom not to read posts and save time. It is called ignore. I recommend it highly. :)

[SuziQ]

If the injuries had time to heal after he abducted them...were they looked at as part of the initial crime? He didn't give them a skull fracture, just a bump on the head and a concussion it sounds like. While some of the vics showed up right away...many took months to show up in the water.

I'm not saying discount the found vics. But he does appear to like to inflict injury. Doesn't mean he operated the same way with either vic. Then I think how closely did the ME's and LE's ever look? Some were deemed accidental drownings as the bodies were zipped up into a body bag.

[daisygirl]

Here's another article from the Green Bay paper:
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080710/GPG0101/80710061/1978

WISCONSIN RAPIDS — Investigators plan an “exhaustive” investigation into the background of a man accused of kidnapping and sexually assaulting two young men to see whether he is connected to other cases, the Wood County sheriff said today.


Thomas Reichert said his agency will dig into Edward Lanphear’s past and cross-reference him with other missing persons cases. Other law enforcement agencies likely will do the same, he said.

More at the link.

[fran]

http://www.pioneerlocal.com/niles/news/1045399,ed-marksmith-071008-s1.article

Update: Wood County "House of Horrors"


<<<<<<<<<<snip>>>>>>>>



Update: A joint press conference will be held Friday, July 11 at 9:00 a.m.

[SeriouslySearching]

I'm not saying discount the found vics. But he does appear to like to inflict injury. Doesn't mean he operated the same way with either vic. Then I think how closely did the ME's and LE's ever look? Some were deemed accidental drownings as the bodies were zipped up into a body bag.When they detemine the COD as drowning, they have to go with accidental unless they can prove motive or have other evidence which obviously has never been found in these cases. It doesn't mean the men did not have other marks on them as many did. They determined those to have been caused by debris etc. No one ever examined them close enough to determine if a tool caused them or not, imo.

[fran]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-wi-wisconsinabductio,0,7438072.story

Past of man accused in Wis. abductions examined

By ROBERT IMRIE and TODD RICHMOND | Associated Press Writers

2:05 PM CDT, July 10, 2008

WISCONSIN RAPIDS, Wis. - Investigators plan an "exhaustive" investigation into the background of a man accused of kidnapping and sexually assaulting two young men to see if he is connected to other cases, the Wood County sheriff said Thursday.

Thomas Reichert said his agency will dig into Edward Lanphear's past and cross-reference him with other missing persons cases. Other law enforcement agencies likely will do the same, he said.

Lanphear, 46, of the Town of Saratoga, is being held on $1 million bond after police say he held two men in his house, stripped them, beat them and sexually assaulted them several times.

Lanphear's attorney has disputed the allegations. Formal charges have not yet been filed.

<<<<<<<<<<<<snip>>>>>>>>>>

Lanphear's next door neighbor Dave Kostyn, 42, described him as an average guy who enjoyed fishing, hunting and playing pool. The two also worked together at a local paper mill.

Lanphear had joint custody of his son, who often practiced target shooting at his range, Kostyn said. He never saw Lanphear drink, but sometimes he would send his son over with a beer when Kostyn was mowing the lawn. It was a neighborly thing to do, he said.

"I have nothing but good to say about the guy," Kostyn said. About the allegations, he said, "Everybody at the mill, everybody who knows him is flabbergasted. It is just unbelievable."


<<<<<<<<<more at link>>>>>>>>>

[ArizonaGiGi]

Death metal, heavy metal, and the other "music" he is into look familiar to me and the groups he is associated with also raise a red flag.

How many "wounds" have they taken for granted have been inflicted by debris in the water, too?SS,IIRC none of the missing/found in bodies of water were sexually assaulted?
***********************Define the sexual assault. Frankly, a bj would never be detected and, like I mentioned before, if there is time between the abduction and when they are found...other wounds could heal.

Good point. I am hoping, wishing, and praying that the 40+ missing/drowned guys were not ever sexually assalted (in any way shape or form)

Lanpear is definitely a real creep-pervert. What's a 46 year old doing on myspace anywho!?!?

As Fran previously posted he was divorced in '97. Coulda been the trigger for this type of behavior. whew. makes me sick to my stomach:sick:

[ArizonaGiGi]

Both of these guys disappeared exactly like many of the young men in this forum.

One had been at a bar. He went to his car and fell asleep in the parking lot. He woke up in an unfamiliar surrounding (suspects home), bound with chains and his clothes removed.

The other victim had been out celebrating the 4th of July with friends, he'd been drinking. When his friends wanted to go to another bar, he decided he wanted to go home. He'd had a great deal to drink. While he walked home, he tried to call a few people to get a ride. They all turned him down. This guy pulled over, offered him a ride, and after he accepted was handcuffed and knocked out. He too woke up inside the suspects residence, and was restrained with chains.

Water destroys evidence plus many of the young men in this forum have disappeared without a trace. IMO, that's most likely what would have happened to these two young men.

We do NOT know yet if the other cases here are in any way connected, but who knows, some may be. I think we should watch this case closely.

JMHO
fran

It sounds like the guy that fell asleep in the car may have been drugged - he was asleep in his car and woke up hanging in the garage. I would think that if he was simply drunk and passed out in his car, he would have woken up sometime during the abduction. :waitasec:
I know that many of us thought that the missing/drowned college guys may have been drugged with GHB or Ecstasy or some other hard to detect drug. May have been this creep-perverts MO too.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Both of these guys disappeared exactly like many of the young men in this forum.

One had been at a bar. He went to his car and fell asleep in the parking lot. He woke up in an unfamiliar surrounding (suspects home), bound with chains and his clothes removed.

The other victim had been out celebrating the 4th of July with friends, he'd been drinking. When his friends wanted to go to another bar, he decided he wanted to go home. He'd had a great deal to drink. While he walked home, he tried to call a few people to get a ride. They all turned him down. This guy pulled over, offered him a ride, and after he accepted was handcuffed and knocked out. He too woke up inside the suspects residence, and was restrained with chains.

Water destroys evidence plus many of the young men in this forum have disappeared without a trace. IMO, that's most likely what would have happened to these two young men.

We do NOT know yet if the other cases here are in any way connected, but who knows, some may be. I think we should watch this case closely.

JMHO
fran


Hi Fran
I understand the similarities between these two victims and the 40+ victims and totally agree that they are eerily similar. I was just asking SS the answer to her question re: the creeps myspace and anything familiar. I didn't see anything familiar. Her answer was the music. Not arguing, just clarifiying :blowkiss:

[fran]

It sounds like the guy that fell asleep in the car may have been drugged - he was asleep in his car and woke up hanging in the garage. I would think that if he was simply drunk and passed out in his car, he would have woken up sometime during the abduction. :waitasec:
I know that many of us thought that the missing/drowned college guys may have been drugged with GHB or Ecstasy or some other hard to detect drug. May have been this creep-perverts MO too.

I agree that some of these guys could have very well been drugged. That could be why the one guy who survived drowning, didn't know how he got into the river.

IMO, I believe many LE agencies all over that area are taking a quick look at some of their missings. They were all so quick to chalk them off to 'boys just having fun and doing something stupid,' NEVER dreaming there was a 'perv' like this guy in the midst.

Let's face it. Now that we know about HIM, how many more are there?:eek:

JMHO
fran

[ArizonaGiGi]

I agree that some of these guys could have very well been drugged. That could be why the one guy who survived drowning, didn't know how he got into the river.

IMO, I believe many LE agencies all over that area are taking a quick look at some of their missings. They were all so quick to chalk them off to 'boys just having fun and doing something stupid,' NEVER dreaming there was a 'perv' like this guy in the midst.

Let's face it. Now that we know about HIM, how many more are there?:eek:

JMHO
fran

The neighbors and co-workers state that this guy was just a quiet hard working type. The kind that flies under the radar IMO. He seemed to abduct these two guys so quickly, quietly and easily. Like you, I ask how many more are there going to be. I'm feeling sick.

Interesting about the Mom who said that Lanphear tried to get her 13 year old to hang out and shoot guns. I'm sure she is thankful that she never let her son go!
***************
"Robin Smalley, 45, lives near Lanphear in a rural subdivision with large, wooded lots. She met him two years ago when their sons took a hunter safety class together.

Smalley described Lanphear as a quiet but friendly man who worked hard and had a nice home and truck. He "latched onto" her 13-year-old son and wanted the boy to shoot at the range behind his house, she said. Her son never went"

reposting the link
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-wi-wisconsinabductio,0,7438072.story

[Peace261]

If the injuries had time to heal after he abducted them...were they looked at as part of the initial crime? He didn't give them a skull fracture, just a bump on the head and a concussion it sounds like. While some of the vics showed up right away...many took months to show up in the water.

I agree with you Serious ..... this guy is cunning and creepy and if these victims were injured "without broken bones" .... dumped in waterways to erode evidence and decomposition .... they could be associated with other victims in the area. This guy was either very daring ... or crazy ... 2 guys during the same time frame?

$ 1 million dollar bond ..... this guy needs to be questioned extensively on his where abouts over the past 12 months (at least) ..... as several young men are still missing in MN, MI, Indiana, NC, and GA.

Peace.

[Peace261]

Here's another article from the Green Bay paper:
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080710/GPG0101/80710061/1978

WISCONSIN RAPIDS — Investigators plan an “exhaustive” investigation into the background of a man accused of kidnapping and sexually assaulting two young men to see whether he is connected to other cases, the Wood County sheriff said today.


Thomas Reichert said his agency will dig into Edward Lanphear’s past and cross-reference him with other missing persons cases. Other law enforcement agencies likely will do the same, he said.

More at the link.

Absolutely ! Multi states LE need to communicate and share information.

Peace

[Peace261]

When they detemine the COD as drowning, they have to go with accidental unless they can prove motive or have other evidence which obviously has never been found in these cases. It doesn't mean the men did not have other marks on them as many did. They determined those to have been caused by debris etc. No one ever examined them close enough to determine if a tool caused them or not, imo.

I believe the "Jenkins case" was initally ruled an accidential drowning ... until the parents persisted in further investigation to have the case re-opened and cause of death changed. The only one ( out of the 40 or so cases) so far to succeed in doing so.

Peace.

[Blink34]

I believe we should keep an eye on this case. Who knows how long this guy has been going around Wisconsin doing this. Heck, he had abducted two guys in one weekend. Both young men disappeared just like the young men in this forum. After a night of drinking, alone, outside the bar or walking home alone, late at night or early morning hours.

JMHO
fran



CAUTION TO READER, ADULT CONTENT

http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/assets/pdf/U011247579.PDF

Probable Cause Affidavit.

I completely agree this needs to be watched, but unfortunately, I do not feel this perp is related to these cases in particular. There is a blatant sexual motive here, which is absent the drowning cases. That being said, absolutely worth keeping on the radar, but for me, imo, does not adress either the vic profile, motive or timeline. I do not however, discount the possibility of a peripheral connection, but do not see the connection at this point.

[Blink34]

I believe the "Jenkins case" was initally ruled an accidential drowning ... until the parents persisted in further investigation to have the case re-opened and cause of death changed. The only one ( out of the 40 or so cases) so far to succeed in doing so.

Peace.

I personally believe that this case is related, which has an ongoing homicide investigation, like Chris's. Scott Javins


http://www.scottjavinsismissing.org/scottdetails.htmc


What makes him unique is that he was found in his car-which I believe for a few of these potential vics, is relevant:

[MeoW333]

LE needs to go through every bit of info they can find on this man's computer and see if there is some kind of network of these type of perverts they can link him to.

[fran]

Well, it seems from this latest news release, they do NOT suspect this guy has done this before. However, they're still investigating him. I believe they're considering bringing dogs into investigate his property.

IF this guy hasn't done this before, then that would mean that none of our missing or drowned young men were his victims. But, what this case does bring to light, is that it is POSSIBLE there are more individuals around, lurking behind closed doors, JUST LIKE HIM! That also tells me, the theory of MANY of these cases being related is NOT far-fetched.

Maybe now that this case has been brought to light, LE will listen to the two investigators and take a second or third look at many of these cases.

FWIW, and FYI, I read that 90K men are sexually assaulted each year, but most go unreported.

This type of thing needs to be addressed by LE. Our young people need to become aware of this horrible assault statistic. Men are at risk too!

JMHO
fran


http://www.wsaw.com/home/headlines/24450269.html

NEW INFO: Authorities Release More Details of Alleged Abduction/Torture Case


Posted: 10:08 AM Jul 11, 2008
Last Updated: 10:08 AM Jul 11, 2008
Reporter: WSAW Staff

Wood County Sheriff Tom Reichert says it appears 46-year-old Edward Lanphear of rural Wisconsin Rapids had his abductions planned well in advance, based on how elaborate the restraints he used on his victims were.

[SeriouslySearching]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2371714#post2371714 <Looks like this could be another one that got away. We will have to watch for the details to emerge tho. They found him "swimming in the river with bruises".

[SeriouslySearching]

While Blink and I normally agree, this man fits the profile in my head of the type of person I think of as being involved in these homicides/drownings. I believe there are more of them, too.

We don't know if there were sexual assaults in the other cases. The forensics could not determine anything if those wounds (bruises, redness, swelling etc.) were healed or if no damage was done internally. Or if the ME and LE simply did NOT LOOK! We do suspect mental torture and this certainly sounds like that is part of what this creep did to both men.

[fran]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2371714#post2371714 <Looks like this could be another one that got away. We will have to watch for the details to emerge tho. They found him "swimming in the river with bruises".

SS

I've been watching this case. From what I gather, the guy has a medical condition, I believe it's a form of epilepsy. I also read that the prior week or so he'd been acting strange. So I'm thinking, (course I could be wrong), that there may be a 'medical' reason why he disappeared, etc.

I know it sounds crazy, but seizures appear in many forms. If he has a short circuit causing seizures, it could be causing something else as well. It's scary when they have these seizures, they don't even know it and remember absolutely nothing. Sometimes when they first come to, they don't even know what day of the week it is or even their name.

JMHO
fran

[fran]

While Blink and I normally agree, this man fits the profile in my head of the type of person I think of as being involved in these homicides/drownings. I believe there are more of them, too.

We don't know if there were sexual assaults in the other cases. The forensics could not determine anything if those wounds (bruises, redness, swelling etc.) were healed or if no damage was done internally. Or if the ME and LE simply did NOT LOOK! We do suspect mental torture and this certainly sounds like that is part of what this creep did to both men.

I agree with you.

Although they feel this guy hasn't done this before, they're still investigating him as far back as they can. They even confiscated his computer. IF he is in any way, shape or form, connected to any other cases, either personally or from acquaintance, (ie MySpace, etc), LE will find out.

JMHO
fran

[SeriouslySearching]

I think they are wrong to believe this man just like an RSO caught at 47 years old hasn't done it before. I can rap off ten names of people like him who they found did horrendous things long before they were caught. Gacy comes to the head of the list. Look at Garry Hilton. When LE spews stuff out like this it just makes me angry when they really have NO clue!

[Blink34]

While Blink and I normally agree, this man fits the profile in my head of the type of person I think of as being involved in these homicides/drownings. I believe there are more of them, too.

We don't know if there were sexual assaults in the other cases. The forensics could not determine anything if those wounds (bruises, redness, swelling etc.) were healed or if no damage was done internally. Or if the ME and LE simply did NOT LOOK! We do suspect mental torture and this certainly sounds like that is part of what this creep did to both men.

AMen sis, we normally do- not saying this isnt a possibility for a vic or 2, but I do not find him remotely organized, cunning, or connected enough for the big picture here. However, I completely agree that there is more to come in this guys closet, or garage, as it were. He seems to be 100% sexually motivated, which is not what I believe the drownings motives are.

Is it me- or when these creeps are caught- isnt his face screaming depraved sex predator??

[Blink34]

I think they are wrong to believe this man just like an RSO caught at 47 years old hasn't done it before. I can rap off ten names of people like him who they found did horrendous things long before they were caught. Gacy comes to the head of the list. Look at Garry Hilton. When LE spews stuff out like this it just makes me angry when they really have NO clue!

Absolutely SS and Fran- they will find it, next I'm guessing a PC full O'Porn and/or underground explicit snuff videos as well. I hope they are talking to EVERYBODY this guy came in contact with

[fran]

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080712/WDH0101/80712012

Abductions: Property search finds no evidence of other victims

SARATOGA — Authorities have finished searching the town of Saratoga home of a man officials say kidnapped and assaulted two men in a span of less than a week.
A search of the almost 11-acre property at 10730 52nd St. S., owned by Edward J. Lanphear, was concluded Friday after an excavating crew and cadaver dogs uncovered no additional evidence.


<<<<<<<<<<<more at link>>>>>>>>>>>

[fran]

What's interesting here is the 'comments section.'

I wish LE would come out and tell the people in the area to leave the suspects family alone. The first person is correct, it's not his family's fault he is accused of this crime. They are as much a victim as everyone else. imho

I also hope the second poster contacts LE and tells them about the basement. They may not be aware it's been recently remodeled. He's right, it would be a shame to stop searching and there's evidence just behind those walls.:eek:

JMHO
fran


http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080711/WRT0101/80711127

thinkoffamily wrote:

I'm in shock at what I'm hearing has happened to the accused's family. People need to think before they are cruel to the innocent involved here. Cruel calls are being made to family members of the accused and they have been yelled at in the street. I'd like to think that the community would remember that they are in pain as well and dont deserve to be treated this way. He is not home so you do not need to yell out obsenities at his family members who are trying to cope with the shock at what has happened. You know who you are because it was witnessed, You dont need to abuse them. They are innocent as well. Just like anyone living in the community, this was a shock to them.They have much to deal with, wrapping their minds around the fact that someone they loved has done something like this, and they never would've thought could do something this terrible. Leave them alone. They did not do this and it is hurtful and cruel. Think before you act/speak. What if you were in their shoes?
7/11/2008 10:01:42 PM


WoodCountyRes wrote:
I couldn’t believe it when I heard the news tonight, they finished the search of the house and turned it over to the family. It was reported that a remodel of the basement has been done. Were new walls torn out in the basement/torture chamber? Is there DNA behind the new walls? No one can believe Lanphear put this all together over months and then managed to abduct two young men in a few days without doing this before. Over 100 pieces of evidence for the current crime and no proof of other victims. Please tell me they brought experts and not just 75 combined years of small town police work and politics to this investigation. These people need to get this done right. Unlike Heuer when Deidre went missing, Lewendowski was willing to alarm the community. I had hoped his pro active approach would remain. I don’t know what they have searched but I do want to know they searched everything. We don’t need the leaders stopping the investigators just shy of finding the evidence again.

7/11/2008 7:41:25 PM

[Blink34]

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080712/WDH0101/80712012

Abductions: Property search finds no evidence of other victims

SARATOGA — Authorities have finished searching the town of Saratoga home of a man officials say kidnapped and assaulted two men in a span of less than a week.
A search of the almost 11-acre property at 10730 52nd St. S., owned by Edward J. Lanphear, was concluded Friday after an excavating crew and cadaver dogs uncovered no additional evidence.


<<<<<<<<<<<more at link>>>>>>>>>>>

His old address is
3120 12th Street South
Wisconsin Rapids, WI 54494-6448 Perhaps they can check that out- I agree with every poster that feels this guy did not just start his life of crime in a week!

[SheerLuck]

We are here to discuss these cases. Though your opinion is sincerely appreciated, IMHO what has been asked by KR2 has not been addressed in your response. We need to stay on topic if we're ever going to make headway. This is the "quiet time" and the best time to put all our heads together and try to answer the questions posed.

You're right; it's the quiet time; which means it's also the best time to take a step back and consider the obvious; which is that with the exception of maybe just a couple of cases these are all just accidents. Hypothermia not only causes the body temperature to drop fast but it also causes loss of muscle control very quickly and disorientation. So even an experienced swimmer can die quickly if alone and without help. And thrashing about and swimming only make hypothermia worse and lead to faster dropping of the body temperature. Remember also that an athletic kid will have their body temps drop fast because of low body fat. And the knockout punch is the alcohol; which also does not mix well with hypothermia. Alcohol negatively affects coordination, but even worse; it lowers the body's resistance to cold water. The unexpected blast of cold water usually leads to a natural reflex for oxygen; and it's this natural gasp reflex which often leads to a person reflexively gulping a bunch of water when they go in. Unfortuately they often never resurface

[RR0004]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2371714#post2371714 <Looks like this could be another one that got away. We will have to watch for the details to emerge tho. They found him "swimming in the river with bruises".
Thanks for posting this here, SS. I hadn't heard about it. FYI...Carmel is a pretty long way upstate from Washington Heights (no river...but a reservoir-still trying to figure out exactly where) which BTW is a pretty colorful neighborhood. I have a close friend who's lived there for years. I imagine it would be a pretty complicated train ride to get up to Carmel (Putnam County) from there. Hard to imagine he'd be able to navigate that in a disoriented state. Someone on the way would definitely take notice.

[fran]

His old address is
3120 12th Street South
Wisconsin Rapids, WI 54494-6448 Perhaps they can check that out- I agree with every poster that feels this guy did not just start his life of crime in a week!

hmmmm...........that's interesting Blink. I hope LE has gone to that address and looked around. Maybe even a little luminol?:eek:

fran

[SheerLuck]

RR is right, as per usual, your opinion is not supported by fact. Let's stay on topic and appreciate those with experience that those of us do not posess.

For the 1 or 2 kids who might have been murdered; including Josh Szostak; Gannon has only set their cases back. Instead of trying to link 40 cases over 11 years; the real help would be to target a few cases individually that might actually have been murders and try to help those families. The number of accidental drowning deaths among young men who have been drinking; hasn't changed in 40+ years. That's not an opinion; its a fact. So are the hypothermia links I posted. Every death exactly matches what a death from an alcohol related accidental drowning/hypothermia death looks like; with no trauma, no robbery, no nothing; but an unfortunate accident. So I looked at individual cases for any that might be different. Early reports were that Josh Szostak had a lot of money on him and a gold chain that was missing; so I view his as maybe the only murder here. But his case is closed; thanx in part; maybe to the bs hype created by Gannon and KTSP's money grab. Let's not be naive. KTSP held the story for 9 months; just to intemtionally release it during ratings sweeps weeks. This sends up an immediate red flag to anyone with a shred of common sense that the story could easily be complete garbage. KTSP broke the story into several parts so they could run it each night of the week because ad revenue throughout the year is based in large part on the results of the entire ratings sweeps week. I know you people think Gannon's great, but his claim to have come forward to warn others; makes absolutely no sense at all because if he was really concerned about saving lives; he would not have waited and watched 8 more boys die from drowning or disappear; from September of 2007 until April of 2008. He would have insisted on the story being released BEFORE the time frame of the deaths; which has been from September to May. So if you want to save lives you release the story in late August of 2007 BEFORE the school year starts and BEFORE the deaths begin happenning and you warn young men to stick together during the 2007-2008 school year. This wasn't done because sweeps week was the end of April; not the end of August. If KTSP and Gannon never say another word about this case; then what? That's my point here(to help those that look like murders)

[SheerLuck]

My question is, how long has this guy been doing this?

fran


http://www.waow.com/global/story.asp?s=8648797

Wood County "House of Horrors"

Posted: July 9, 2008 12:11 PM PDT

by Meg Bonacorsi

WOOD COUNTY (WAOW) -- Police identify the second missing man who disappeared from Wisconsin Rapids early Tuesday morning.

Newsline 9 has learned the names of both men, but chooses not to release them due to the nature of this case.

The 21-year-old, awoke hanging up in the garage, according to a probable cause affidavit.

The 21-year-old man reported that he was at a bar, passed out in his car and woke up chained, locked and naked in the garage.

The 21-year-old then escaped from the garage and went to a neighbor's home, where police were notified.

Once police went to the 52nd Street home in the town of Saratoga, they found a 23-year-old man, who was reported missing late Friday night.


<<<<<<<<<<<<more at link>>>>>>>>>>>

Fran, disturbing news story and I hope this guy gets life in prison and the max, but this is a kidnapping and sexual assault case; which involves trauma to the body. So it has no connection to any kid who drowns after a night of drinking

[SheerLuck]

There is a handy tool we have that will simply allow us the freedom not to read posts and save time. It is called ignore. I recommend it highly. :)

You have 40 men who died from drowing who showed no trauma and you think they might relate to a guy who's arrested for knocking a kid unconscious with a BLOW to the head; chaining him up and BEATING him as the cops have said and then committing sexual ASSAULT??? A man chains and beats 2 men and commits sexual assault and you think it could connect to 40 others who drowned with ZERO trauma??? He might have killed others who never were found, but this clearly does not connect to any of the 40 cases Gannon and KTSP promoted. You're right; there are some posts that should be ignored

[fran]

Fran, disturbing news story and I hope this guy gets life in prison and the max, but this is a kidnapping and sexual assault case; which involves trauma to the body. So it has no connection to any kid who drowns after a night of drinking


I do