Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #9

[Littledeer]

When it's two girls killed, it's normal to assume that it was a male.

Even more so when the local LE has released a sketch of a male as a POI. Doesn't mean he was the killer, just a POI.

But of all of these 6+ witnesses, don't you think of there had there been a female there, one of them would have said this??

[SailorMoon]

Who knows.....I just think the false report or whatever by the 18 yothrows more confusion into the mess.

[GetSmart]

I might get my post :furious: but until we hear (if they decided to let us know anything else) I think the GP has been cleared. I know we are all brainstorming but I really don't think we need to drag nasty gossip into the picture. It has been brought up & we have discussed it but as of now there is no proof of abuse. Our forum is thought of highly on the web people from all over are quoting what is written here. Our standards are higher than any other out there. Lets just think about what it sounds like .. for the family God knows they have plenty of other skeletons in there closets. Not mention Skylars family to read about Gp & abuse. I don't mean to be petty but we are a great group & I don't want us to sink low in the Topix routine of things. I am sorry & I do not mean any thing bad.. I looove you guys & I am very proud & grateful to be a member here.

[Littledeer]

I agree that the 18 year old's report doesn't help. But, imo, it shoud be discounted. If OSBI is going national for the search of the POI, it doesn't seem to me, that LE believes that the POI was in her backyard or wherever.

IMO

[oceanblueeyes]

Peter Placker was just on Greta.

He said he has faith that OSBI will solve this case.

Again, he urged anyone with information to come forward. He said for the ones who are hiding these people out they are just as guilty as the ones who did this.

He also said that the police keeps him informed about the case.

He did say that Taylor knew who her mother was but he and Vicky had always been her mom and daddy.

This is not an exact.......just a short summary.

imoo

[Littledeer]

GetSmart:

IMO, we are not going down the road to sexual abuse by any family member as a fact.

But, it must be brought up and discussed as we have seen too many times that it can happen.

But as you can see by reading all the threads here, it is not what most posters honestly believe.

Trust me, if we have stooped down to topix standards, there would be NO Websleuths!!!!!!!!!

[GetSmart]

I know. thank you. Like I said I just cringe when I hear that & I know we can't hide from it being possible. Thats why I didn't want anyone to kill me for my point of view. I was so afraid my post would be taken wrong.

[oceanblueeyes]

I know. thank you. Like I said I just cringe when I hear that & I know we can't hide from it being possible. Thats why I didn't want anyone to kill me for my point of view. I was so afraid my post would be taken wrong.

It wasn't taken wrong by me. I understand it perfectly and happen to agree with you.

imoo

[Littledeer]

Nothing to take wrong in your post GetSmart!

IMO. I don't believe in any way shape or form, that Taylor and Skyla got killed because of any sexual abuse.

IMO

But it can't be discounted completely until the final autopsy results are released. (and even then, they might only releae certain parts of it)

[GetSmart]

I just so wished they could feed us a little info. We just have to pray that they have their act together & have a game plan. We all are getting so anxious. I have not been so wrapped up in a case since Trenton. I posted a prayer request / good vibe request on the off topic thread

[Claycat]

There is something going on in the area of the murders.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p123#lastPost

[Tom'sGirl]

There is something going on in the area of the murders.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p123#lastPost
You mean here?

http://www.topix.net/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p122#c2737

[Claycat]

You mean here?

http://www.topix.net/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p122#c2737

Yes, thanks, TG! I got in a hurry!

[philamena]

Well Soonerfan, I am leading in the direction of the possibility that there was past sexual abuse and someone wanted to silence them before they could tell. Someone was angry at them for threatening to tell.

I have no proof whatsoever, just instinct. Is my tree closer to the truth do you think?


Patience,
I mentioned the same thing on an earlier thread and was quickly hushed. lol
We have few facts in this case. IMO anything could be the reason these precious lives were taken.

[philamena]

You guys just amaze me....totally "barking" up the wrong tree


Sooner Fan,
Why don't you spill what you obviously know?
tia

[Tom'sGirl]

Sooner Fan,
Why don't you spill what you obviously know?
tia
LOL, Hi philamena :Banane19:

[philamena]

Hey there Tom'sGirl. :blowkiss: ;)

[GetSmart]

Sooner Fan,
Why don't you spill what you obviously know?
tia
I agree if you know something tell us.

[philamena]

Really, I mean if I knew something about a big case like this, I would tell everything I knew. (I'd tell LE first of course.)

I'm still upset that scent dogs didn't go to the scene until yesterday. Then to hear that the search for suspects has gone national. This is a small town. One that hasn't had a murder in years. Why can't this case be solved?
Why is it so hard to find the POI?
Cops need to check every white truck in the county.
Sorry, I'm rambling.

[GetSmart]

This is going sound so goofy but for crying outloud you know it is possible to get fixes on areas with a satellites that you can read car tags..why can't they ever see what it picks up in a case like this.

[kahskye]

GetSmart:

IMO, we are not going down the road to sexual abuse by any family member as a fact.

But, it must be brought up and discussed as we have seen too many times that it can happen.

But as you can see by reading all the threads here, it is not what most posters honestly believe.

Trust me, if we have stooped down to topix standards, there would be NO Websleuths!!!!!!!!!

:clap::clap::clap:

[RoseRed]

I hope I don't get banned for posting this but this is on another forum about 30 min ago. Is anyone on here from Henryetta that would know if this is true or not. This post is about the girl that allegedly lied about the burglar.

"Just to give everyone a heads up, this is not showing on the news, but i live about 1 mile from this family, and there are cops stretched from there to my front yard. Apparently as told to me by a sherriff in my yard, a highway patrol was assaulted earlier. I do not believe the girl was lying, they are searching the familys property, apparently a man was also arrested that night right on the outskirts of their property...the news just failed to mention tonights events and the arrests. And yes every single cop in the henryetta, okmulgee and ofuskee area are all crooked and patsys. Put that little bit of info in your pipe and smoke it. "

I don mean to break TOS and if this post is against rules please delete it.

[philamena]

This is going sound so goofy but for crying outloud you know it is possible to get fixes on areas with a satellites that you can read car tags..why can't they ever see what it picks up in a case like this.


Dang, that is a great question GetSmart!:clap:

[Tom'sGirl]

I hope I don't get banned for posting this but this is on another forum about 30 min ago. Is anyone on here from Henryetta that would know if this is true or not. This post is about the girl that allegedly lied about the burglar.

"Just to give everyone a heads up, this is not showing on the news, but i live about 1 mile from this family, and there are cops stretched from there to my front yard. Apparently as told to me by a sherriff in my yard, a highway patrol was assaulted earlier. I do not believe the girl was lying, they are searching the familys property, apparently a man was also arrested that night right on the outskirts of their property...the news just failed to mention tonights events and the arrests. And yes every single cop in the henryetta, okmulgee and ofuskee area are all crooked and patsys. Put that little bit of info in your pipe and smoke it. "

I don mean to break TOS and if this post is against rules please delete it.
Link for the above info;
http://www.topix.net/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TFLGRI9S1D0NS1HMO/p2#c35

[txsvicki]

Wow, I wonder if this is true. Maybe the girl was lying about seeing the POI in the sketch, but was covering for and knew the person who was on the property and perhaps hiding out there.

[w1df10wr]

Another thought:
From the front of the Placker home, how much distance is visible by eye.
If you could see say 1/4 to 1/2 mile straight and didnt' see the girls walking toward home, wouldn't you drive there rather than walk?

IMO,that short of a distance, a vehicle would be more of a hassle. It could be Mr. Placker went to the end of the driveway and something caught his attention - he walked closer and discovered the girls.

Thank you to everyone who is discussing this case. I really thought this one might get solved quickly.

[Trino]

Didn't see this posted here. I thought this was interesting from the Topix forum.

Here's an awesome interview with Pat Campbell of KFAQ 1170 in Tulsa and Mark Fuhrman.

http://www.1170kfaq.com/audio/pc&markfuhr... (http://www.1170kfaq.com/audio/pc&markfuhrman2.mp3)

This interview is wonderful. Finally, someone has profiled the killers. Furhman believes there were two/three involved, that it was drug related, and one person is local. (Local might mean extended local.) He believes the girls witnessed something, or the killers thought they witnessed something, or that one of the killers (local?) would be recognized. Furhman also stated he thought the killers had training of some sort: two hits to the chest, one to the head. This, to Furhman, indicated possible police or military training, although Furhman seemed to emphasize more the police training aspect.

IMO these killings fit with drug running. These people have no morals and would "take out " anyone, including children, who got in their way. The interviewer referenced the drug related familing killing in Port Lucie, FL, where the very young children were shot along with the mother and father.

[Littledeer]

How come there is nothing in the news this morning about all the LE going to this girl's house last night??

[cloudajo]

How come there is nothing in the news this morning about all the LE going to this girl's house last night??

Good question!

[cloudajo]

Article and video with Pratt interview at link below.

OKLAHOMA CITY -- The artist who made a sketch police hope will lead to the killer of Skyla Whitaker and Taylor Paschal-Placker said he tries not to let the emotion of the case impact his work.

“He doesn't have anything that just jumps right at you like a broken nose or a unibrow or missing teeth or huge scars,” Pratt said “He's about like most of the drawings that I do, he's pretty normal looking.”

http://www.koco.com/news/16724023/detail.html (http://www.koco.com/news/16724023/detail.html)

[DeltaDawn]

This is what I was trying to get at yesterday. Maybe there is some truth to the 18 year olds accusation about having seen the POI on their property prior to and after the murders. May be the part of the lie detector test she failed was just about IDing him that day. If she were home alone or with younger brothers and sister, and she heard noises..maybe she became afraid and called police assuming it was this guy back on their property. She failed the lie detector test..but we don't know which questions..maybe just the ones about that day.

[tulsa]

Is there supposed to be a connection between this incident and "the girl"? Both are mentioned in the topix post from last night and I dont' know what to make of it. Maybe I need more coffee.

http://www.kjrh.com/content/news/2viewgc/story.aspx?content_id=3522da7e-2be9-4406-a3ae-3a5ece48beeb

[Trino]

Why would anyone hang around after killing two young girls? IMO they've most likely ditched the truck, too.

[oceanblueeyes]

Why would anyone hang around after killing two young girls? IMO they've most likely ditched the truck, too.

I don't think so. I think they have been long gone and most likely the truck is now at the bottom of some river or deep lake by now.

I also believe that most likely the weapons have been fully dismantled and destroyed by now and tossed somewhere much further away from the scene.

imoo

[DeltaDawn]

If that is a good likeness then I would figure they are gone...but if it is generic and does not resemble them enough for someone to have ID'd them yet..then they still maybe in the general area. They maybe from Henryetta or some other town and live on the outskirts of the farms.

[christine2448]

Sooner Fan,
Why don't you spill what you obviously know?
tia


Or doesn't ;)

[Claycat]

Evidently a trooper was attacked in the area last night. I don't know whether it has anything to do with this case or not.

http://newsok.com/man-arrested-in-assault-on-ohp-trooper/article/3262912

[DeltaDawn]

Evidently a trooper was attacked in the area last night. I don't know whether it has anything to do with this case or not.

http://newsok.com/man-arrested-in-assault-on-ohp-trooper/article/3262912


They were talking about this on Topix last night. Never gave all the details. It would be interesting to see a pic of this man they arrested on a routine traffic stop.

[tulsa]

They were talking about this on Topix last night. Never gave all the details. It would be interesting to see a pic of this man they arrested on a routine traffic stop.

Okmulgee county jail inmate Joe Dean Smith

http://okokmulgee.jailsoftware.com/PressArrestRelease.asp?itbSiteID=6&ArrestNo=2008001437

[christine2448]

I wonder if that is his real name? Joe Smith :rolleyes: Ya think?

Thanks tulsa...I was just searching for the same.

Fresh hair cut?

[tulsa]

Looks like he's had short haircuts before

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=198168&offender_book_id=90784&imageindex=2

[Annie]

I think he looks a lot like the picture of the POI if you cover up the top part of his head. But again there are probably hundreds of men in OK who do. He doesn't have a pony tail, but I have been wondering about that. How did the witness get such a good look at both his front and back to get such details. Did the man turn around for him and how long did he actually see him?

[FlowerChild]

He isn't the POI, if the sketch and description of the POI are accurate. He's got naturally redish/auburn hair, blue eyes, is very fair and is 5'9". He appears to be a dope dealer - probably had a bale of marijuana in the car when he was stopped.

While he might be involved in the murders he isn't someone LE is publicly looking for in relation to the case. This guy appears to be just another dope head criminal.

My Opinion

[Annie]

He isn't the POI, if the sketch and description of the POI are accurate. He's got naturally redish/auburn hair, blue eyes, is very fair and is 5'9". He appears to be a dope dealer - probably had a bale of marijuana in the car when he was stopped.

While he might be involved in the murders he isn't someone LE is publicly looking for in relation to the case. This guy appears to be just another dope head criminal.

My Opinion

Reddish/auburn? Look at picture 4.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=198168&offender_book_id=90784&imageindex=4

[Garnan]

Garnan:

First let me apologize. Didn't mean to use the word "point" to come out harshly.

A scenario, I am walking with my dog, a person comes up to me in a threatening manner, my dog would be on high alert, maybe even growl. If that person would take a step closer to me and I said something in a scared voice or screamed, he would probably have lunged toward that person to protect me.

So I was wondering why this dog didn't? Is it not in a that type of breed to react that way?

You had mentioned that Chihuahua's are fast, are they also protective?

Am I making any sense here?

Gosh, Littledeer, no apology necessary. I currently have two chihuahuas and had another one prior, that passed away. I can't see them ever chasing after someone who they would perceive as a threat. If I am holding them on my lap, they will snap at someone and bite them if the reach for me, but they wouldn't go after someone. Deep down, they know they are little, they just project that they are big, LOL. Mine act real tough, as long as they are within about 6 inches of me. They would NEVER go after someone. Maybe other chihuahua's are different, but that's been my experience. Maybe other people don't baby theirs as much as I do, but I doubt it. Especially little girls.

[strach304]

[QUOTE=Trino;2330771]This interview is wonderful. Finally, someone has profiled the killers. Furhman believes there were two/three involved, that it was drug related, and one person is local. (Local might mean extended local.) He believes the girls witnessed something, or the killers thought they witnessed something, or that one of the killers (local?) would be recognized. Furhman also stated he thought the killers had training of some sort: two hits to the chest, one to the head. This, to Furhman, indicated possible police or military training, although Furhman seemed to emphasize more the police training aspect.

IMO these killings fit with drug running. These people have no morals and would "take out " anyone, including children, who got in their way. The interviewer referenced the drug related familing killing in Port Lucie, FL, where the very young children were shot along with the mother and father.[/QUOTE

A local dirty cop that both girls would recognize would certainly explain the manner and reason behind this whole thing.

[Garnan]

I have to agree with you, I saw that post. That poor woman!!

I just heard that they arrested the husband. I have not seen any of the articles yet, but it does restore some of my faith in TPD.

[FlowerChild]

I think he looks a lot like the picture of the POI if you cover up the top part of his head. But again there are probably hundreds of men in OK who do. He doesn't have a pony tail, but I have been wondering about that. How did the witness get such a good look at both his front and back to get such details. Did the man turn around for him and how long did he actually see him?
The sketch artist said he worked with more than one witness - perhaps one saw his face, and one saw him from the side or back?

Anyone else note that the sketch artist (Harvey Pratt) is Native American with a long pony tail past his shoulder? The sketch artist himself is an example of what a Native American might look like - complexion, hair color and texture, sparse facial hair, bone structure etc.

Native Americans sometimes do not look their actual age - I know the description says 35 - but I am thinking an age range could be from 30-50.

My Opinion

[FlowerChild]

Reddish/auburn? Look at picture 4.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=198168&offender_book_id=90784&imageindex=4
Picture # 1 is most recent (Jan 06) and his hair is dark red as it is in several of the older ones. The description says hair is brown - assume at times it's darker - but it sure appears reddish to me - and it goes with his very fair, ruddy complexion.

The point being that without significant makeup, contacts and a wig no one who is from Oklahoma or has lived there for more than a few months is going to describe this person as even part Native American. As I said, he might be involved, but he doesn't seem to match the sketch or the description of the POI.

My Opinion

[murdershewrote]

Grandpa (father) was interviewed last night on Greta...I felt so bad for him. He is a man of few words, and Greta didn't really get much from him, but he did say he had faith that LE would do their very best to solve this crime...said he had to believe that. And that the community's support was the only thing that was keeping him together.

[FlowerChild]

This interview is wonderful. Finally, someone has profiled the killers. Furhman believes there were two/three involved, that it was drug related, and one person is local. (Local might mean extended local.) He believes the girls witnessed something, or the killers thought they witnessed something, or that one of the killers (local?) would be recognized. Furhman also stated he thought the killers had training of some sort: two hits to the chest, one to the head. This, to Furhman, indicated possible police or military training, although Furhman seemed to emphasize more the police training aspect.

IMO these killings fit with drug running. These people have no morals and would "take out " anyone, including children, who got in their way. The interviewer referenced the drug related familing killing in Port Lucie, FL, where the very young children were shot along with the mother and father.

A local dirty cop that both girls would recognize would certainly explain the manner and reason behind this whole thing.

With all respect to Fuhrman - he is NOT a professional profiler, just an ex cop. His theories are just slightly more informed than ours. And I don't remember anyone saying it was 2 shots to the chest, one to the head - if that were true, why use 2 guns, only need 6 shots for a pro to achieve that pattern at the close range we know they killer had since the casings were lying in the roadway. The information from the ME says multiple shots to the face and chest with 2 guns - nothing about the pattern or how many shots to any specific area. And what cop would leave the casings lying there? Wouldn't a cop know to police his brass?

And why would two girls recognize a local cop out of uniform? I doubt either child knew any of the local cops - it's not like they are walking a beat or walking around the area on foot. And the school they attended was not in Weleetka - if anyone ever came to their school it would have been Sheriff's Dept officers.

It could have been drug runner related, BUT I do not see why the girls would have interrupted THAT? Drug Runners meeting don't exactly advertise what they are doing and it would have been a really poor location to be covert - kids at the bridge and traffic on the road - and you can see two girls approaching on foot for a half mile. If it was 2 or 3 people surely they would have had a lookout - especially after the 1st vehicle went by. The folks in Florida were RUNNING DRUGS themselves, that is why the entire family was killed. Unless the Placker or Whitaker family was running drugs I just am not seeing how this scenario would play out where the girls would have been a threat just walking on the road.

I just cannot get it out of my head that this was personal - not so random. And I still cannot figure out WHAT the girls could have seen in the short amount of time we KNOW they were alive that they wouldn't have been frightened or upset enough to call someone and tell them. They were almost home - walking. They didn't notice someone was chasing them?? Someone driving after them on the road after seeing something incriminating done by that person they could ID? It just seems so curious, unless the person was a family friend and the girl who knew him ( or her) trusted this person and was not afraid of them - and would not have run from them when approached. If this was a stranger who pulled alongside the girls on the road why didn't they at least back OFF THE ROAD? Taylor was lying practically ON the roadway and the casings were right there in the roadway.

My Opinion

[Trino]

With all respect to Fuhrman - he is NOT a professional profiler, just an ex cop. His theories are just slightly more informed than ours. And I don't remember anyone saying it was 2 shots to the chest, one to the head - if that were true, why use 2 guns, only need 6 shots for a pro to achieve that pattern at the close range we know they killer had since the casings were lying in the roadway. The information from the ME says multiple shots to the face and chest with 2 guns - nothing about the pattern or how many shots to any specific area. And what cop would leave the casings lying there? Wouldn't a cop know to police his brass?

And why would two girls recognize a local cop out of uniform? I doubt either child knew any of the local cops - it's not like they are walking a beat or walking around the area on foot. And the school they attended was not in Weleetka - if anyone ever came to their school it would have been Sheriff's Dept officers.

It could have been drug runner related, BUT I do not see why the girls would have interrupted THAT? Drug Runners meeting don't exactly advertise what they are doing and it would have been a really poor location to be covert - kids at the bridge and traffic on the road - and you can see two girls approaching on foot for a half mile. If it was 2 or 3 people surely they would have had a lookout - especially after the 1st vehicle went by. The folks in Florida were RUNNING DRUGS themselves, that is why the entire family was killed. Unless the Placker or Whitaker family was running drugs I just am not seeing how this scenario would play out where the girls would have been a threat just walking on the road.

I just cannot get it out of my head that this was personal - not so random. And I still cannot figure out WHAT the girls could have seen in the short amount of time we KNOW they were alive that they wouldn't have been frightened or upset enough to call someone and tell them. They were almost home - walking. They didn't notice someone was chasing them?? Someone driving after them on the road after seeing something incriminating done by that person they could ID? It just seems so curious, unless the person was a family friend and the girl who knew him ( or her) trusted this person and was not afraid of them - and would not have run from them when approached. If this was a stranger who pulled alongside the girls on the road why didn't they at least back OFF THE ROAD? Taylor was lying practically ON the roadway and the casings were right there in the roadway.

My Opinion

I don't think my statement was this was a LOCAL cop, only a person with LE training. They could be from anywhere. Why did you assume LOCAL?

It's entirely possible that something could have been left at the bridge, something which only a walker could have seen.

[ricquelle]

Unless the Placker or Whitaker family was running drugs I just am not seeing how this scenario would play out where the girls would have been a threat just walking on the road.


This made me think...

What if the Plackers were running drugs. Taylor was the runner. They could ask her to deliver packages to certain people down at the bridge. She may not have even known what was in the packages. The girls make the delivery and started heading back. Whoever received the package opens it up and discovers they have been scammed (doesn't weigh out, mixed with something else, not high grade etc.) They come after the girls and it escalates into the shooting.

[FlowerChild]

Bolding is mine.

If this is not random, if they did not come across something and witness something that afternoon, if this is personal..then it seems to be lost on everyone in their family and the community at large. The girls familys and friends can't think of a reason anyone would do this to the girls. LE does not have a motive. So if it was done on purpose..then everyone missed that purpose and the value of the murder to the murderer was lost. No one got the message he or they were trying to send.
I doubt the family member who "got the message" would be advertising that fact to the public. Of course they are going to SAY they don't know why it happened or who might have done it (or gotten it done)- and if it's a more distant family member or friend, they would hardly want to incriminate themselves or go to Taylor's GPa or Skyla's Mom and say that their children are dead because of THEM :eek:

The message may very well have been received loud and clear. We have just a FRACTION of the facts and evidence in this case. OSBI isn't even releasing the types or caliber of the guns used (and they do know that info according to an interview on Wed). The OSBI even said Wed the the "noose was tightening". For all we know - the OSBI may be asking GPA Placker to dodge any questions about the suspects or knowing them and we are not getting any information from Skyla's family at all.

I am getting a feeling that this may involve something bigger than just Taylor and Skyla's murders. The OSBI is being far too stingy with information and far too quiet - in a case that is getting NATIONWIDE coverage. There is a REASON the OSBI hasn't released autopsy information, the cell phone information, that they had a dog with them, the precise timeline, the gun evidence, the footprint and vehicle evidence, the POI clothing description and why they just took the POI sketch nationwide 18 days AFTER the murders.

And "personal" does not mean they were sending a message to anyone - it could be that the killer was mad or upset at one (or both) of the girls or feared they might "tell" something (like a romantic interest with a too old boy or an online flirtation/stalking?). Like I said, this was up close and personal, Tyler could have literally been almost face to face with the killer - we have to ask WHY would she let a stranger (a man?) that close to her if he was threatening to her? Even Skyla was only 5' or less off the road. The crime scene just didn't say stranger, impersonal, girls afraid...the guy either had something (Taylor's Dog?) that made them approach or he was familiar to one of them or used their names, a family/friend name etc.

My Opinion

[Albert18]

It seems to me LE has two avenues to solve this case. Via the POI or via a motive.

The POI doesn't seem to be producing so I hope they are involving experts in looking for a possible motive.

Maybe there isn't enough to tell them anything but if they get even a hint this was personal, they should be off to the races. Then they just need to start running people in the area through the ringer until they find something.

My best guess is that this was a random killing. Maybe some lowlifes are driving down the road, see the girls and start harassing them, and the girls tell them where to go and what flight to take to get there. Next thing you know the girls are dead.

However.

The witness accounts of the POI seem to negate a random killing. Random means random. It is my impression the POI was there for a reason.

[Leila]

Grandpa (father) was interviewed last night on Greta...I felt so bad for him. He is a man of few words, and Greta didn't really get much from him, but he did say he had faith that LE would do their very best to solve this crime...said he had to believe that. And that the community's support was the only thing that was keeping him together.

I saw the interview with Peter Placker, and I agree...............he's a man of few words. He answered Greta's questions, but didn't expand on them. I too felt so bad for him. For the family's sake, this case needs to be resolved and justice served.

[kahskye]

I saw the interview with Peter Placker, and I agree...............he's a man of few words. He answered Greta's questions, but didn't expand on them. I too felt so bad for him. For the family's sake, this case needs to be resolved and justice served.

I agree! This family needs closure.

[GetSmart]

kahskye... i love your avatar

Does anyone know if there is a video to Greta's interview last pm

[PGW]

I noticed in the one photo that Taylor resembles her Grandpa a lot. Same eyes, and I think both sets of eyes reflect kindness. It appears to me Taylor's grandparents were doing all they could to give her a good environment to the best of their ability with lots of love, the most important ingredient. I could be wrong, but it sure looks that way to me. She was probably the light that kept them trying so hard. I do not see these girls running drugs for anybody at all. These were two very smart, sweet, kind little girls. I've seen the drug runners and drug dealers and drug users at that age. Seen quite a few of them and watched them get in bigger trouble and go to prison before becoming adults. Big difference between them and Taylor and Skyla.

[oceanblueeyes]

Grandpa (father) was interviewed last night on Greta...I felt so bad for him. He is a man of few words, and Greta didn't really get much from him, but he did say he had faith that LE would do their very best to solve this crime...said he had to believe that. And that the community's support was the only thing that was keeping him together.


I agree. He seemed to be very uncomfortable than he was when he did his other interview with the area reporter right there in front of him letting him pour out his heart. It has to be quite different with earphones and the voice feeding into his ear talking to someone who is far away from him.

But even though he was not as talkative on Greta as he was on his other interview his words were profound imo.

I agree with every word he had to say. These people have to be caught. People have to contact police with any information they may have and he is most certainly right imo....those who hide these people out are as bad as the ones who did this.

I pray these families will at least see the killers caught, arrested and convicted. It will not bring them closure.....there is no closure on the pain and loss they will feel forever but maybe there will be some peace knowing the ones who did this will be punished harshly for what they have done.

[oceanblueeyes]

I noticed in the one photo that Taylor resembles her Grandpa a lot. Same eyes, and I think both sets of eyes reflect kindness. It appears to me Taylor's grandparents were doing all they could to give her a good environment to the best of their ability with lots of love, the most important ingredient. I could be wrong, but it sure looks that way to me. She was probably the light that kept them trying so hard. I do not see these girls running drugs for anybody at all. These were two very smart, sweet, kind little girls. I've seen the drug runners and drug dealers and drug users at that age. Seen quite a few of them and watched them get in bigger trouble and go to prison before becoming adults. Big difference between them and Taylor and Skyla.

I think she was their world.

IMO they loved her as their own child...she was their baby daughter. They supported her in everything she wanted to do in her life imo. She was not only a sweet child she was smart, loving, compassionate and accomplished so much in her short life.

I agree........these girls still had innocence, which was a wonderful thing.

imoo

[Littledeer]

GetSmart:

Which video are you talking about?

I just posted Greta's video on the dog returning to the crime scene on the Videos Thread.

[Tom'sGirl]

GetSmart:

Which video are you talking about?

I just posted Greta's video on the dog returning to the crime scene on the Videos Thread.
Not the video GS is speaking of LD, you posted the video from 6-25-08, GS is referring to last nights interview with Peter Placker.

[Littledeer]

Tom'sGirl:

Thanks for the clarification!!! I thought that was in the Video thread?

I'll go check and if not, bring it over there.

:blowkiss:

[Littledeer]

I just checked out GretaWire and I don't see this video there. According to the site, she interviewed about the Pregnant Army Girl last night????

Would it be in there? Was it a short interview??

[Aleph]

Here's a theory that hasn't occurred to me before, and I haven't seen it mentioned here.

What if this were a game gone wrong? Some friends in a car who decided to play "stick up" with the girls? Then what if a gun went off unexpectedly (sorry, not sure how a semi-auto works) and the jokers decided to put them out of their misery because they were freaked out by the suffering the girls were going through?

[Littledeer]

Okay, so they have gone nationwide for the search on the POI. I'm assuming this means they are sending out a fax to other countries LE with a picture of the POI. Is this correct?

Then can I assume this has already been done here in the US?? If so, I can't believe NO ONE has seen this guy. I'm starting to believe he either didn't exist or he is being very very well protected within his own community.

Even if he is dead, there has to be at least ONE PERSON who knew him.

[Littledeer]

Anythings possible Aleph. Welcome to WS! With the little information we have from LE, this theory is just one more to consider. But then, how does the POI fit in with this theory?

Here's a theory that hasn't occurred to me before, and I haven't seen it mentioned here.

What if this were a game gone wrong? Some friends in a car who decided to play "stick up" with the girls? Then what if a gun went off unexpectedly (sorry, not sure how a semi-auto works) and the jokers decided to put them out of their misery because they were freaked out by the suffering the girls were going through?

[Aleph]

Anythings possible Aleph. Welcome to WS! With the little information we have from LE, this theory is just one more to consider. But then, how does the POI fit in with this theory?

Thanks! Been mostly lurking a long time and I love it here. The near-universal kindness and respect among the posters here is a real light in the dark, especially amid the awful stories in the news today.

I must admit that I hadn't considered the POI in my theory. But since I'm on a roll: the POI may be a witness himself and afraid to come forward. Maybe he's got a warrant out on him, or maybe (anything's possible) he didn't realize the significance of whatever he saw. His arrival may have scared the perps away without the POI realizing what they were up to. This could apply to any theory, not just mine.

I really hope law enforcement has been asking around in the NA community.

[Littledeer]

Does everyone feel that LE was able to gather all the evidence at the scene before the grading of the road??

I was thinking of this today at work. Does anyone know the time and day that the grading was done?

[Littledeer]

Aleph:

Then come out of the dark into our light more often! :) If he was a witness and afraid to come forward, my big question would be: how come NO ONE ELSE has come forward to say they know this person with his pictured plastered all over the internet, news, etc.?

btw........there is a thread for New Posters, please sign in. :)

I must admit that I hadn't considered the POI in my theory. But since I'm on a roll: the POI may be a witness himself and afraid to come forward. Maybe he's got a warrant out on him, or maybe (anything's possible) he didn't realize the significance of whatever he saw. His arrival may have scared the perps away without the POI realizing what they were up to. This could apply to any theory, not just mine.

I really hope law enforcement has been asking around in the NA community.

[oceanblueeyes]

Okay, so they have gone nationwide for the search on the POI. I'm assuming this means they are sending out a fax to other countries LE with a picture of the POI. Is this correct?

Then can I assume this has already been done here in the US?? If so, I can't believe NO ONE has seen this guy. I'm starting to believe he either didn't exist or he is being very very well protected within his own community.

Even if he is dead, there has to be at least ONE PERSON who knew him.

I think it is like Eric Rudolph, who imo had help living out in the mountains for three years. I think it is like Mr. Placker said. Someone is hiding these creeps out and they are laying low probably not anywhere close to Weleetka.

I don't find it strange that no one has seen him. Thousands of people go missing yearly and most of them aren't murdered but willingly go missing on their own. Massive searches are held......notices sent to various LE in the country yet no one finds them, only to find out many years later they were in another state living another life in plain sight.

This story has not even been covered where I live and when I mention it no one had even heard about it so the POI could come right through my town and no one would even notice. I would because I have been interested in this case from the beginning.

imo

[Tom'sGirl]

I really hope law enforcement has been asking around in the NA community.
In a telephone interview with Jessica Brown/OSBI on FOX she said the male could be part Caucasion.

[Tom'sGirl]

This story has not even been covered where I live and when I mention it no one had even heard about it so the POI could come right through my town and no one would even notice. I would because I have been interested in this case from the beginning.
Nor has it been in my area ocean, or have other cases I've followed.

Native Americans are abundent in my State, as are those non Native Americans who have long pony tails.

[Littledeer]

I'm sure we have discussed this earlier, but would a NA that is part Caucasian with a long pony tail, be dismissed by people as the suspect because the LE said NA only in the description?

How much of a difference in appearance is there between the two?

[oceanblueeyes]

Nor has it been in my area ocean, or have other cases I've followed.

Native Americans are abundant in my State, as are those non Native Americans who have long pony tails.

We have a lot of people that wear ponytails. Heck one of the most high profile attorneys out of Georgia wears a long braid and it looks very good on him.

The only cases that people seem to be aware of here are crimes that happen in Georgia, which unfortunately there has been quite a few high profile cases over the past ten years.

Oh btw/ have you heard when Brian Nichols trial is to begin?

I just remember the James Sullivan trial. The woman who knew the hit man had killed Sullivan's wife, Lita, didn't say a word until 8 or 10 years later.

IMO the killers here have got to be meaner than a junkyard dog and when they are people are fearful to say a word thinking they could meet the same fate as the girls.

imoo

[philamena]

Does everyone feel that LE was able to gather all the evidence at the scene before the grading of the road??



Absolutely not.
That road should have been left alone and the make shift memorial should have been moved.

I'll venture to say that valuable forensics was lost from the crime scene. :banghead:

[GetSmart]

I am in Fla ..we have a good population as well. As I was sitting at a red lite today a wht ford approx 1986 pulled up next to me & I started thinking ok what if.... so I ask you what if? I suppose I would continue going in his general direction to get a look at him & truck & get a tag # then 911 the police if the pieces fit together. What would you do?

" Meaner than Junk Yard Dogs" I still agree when someone stated in the beginning the killer on "Old Men Without A Country" is what I picture in my head thinking about this POS

[Littledeer]

IMO the killers here have got to be meaner than a junkyard dog

The use of "killers" leads me right back to the question of: why from all the eyewitnesses, was only ONE POI seen??

[Littledeer]

I totally agree with you philamena!!!! I was talking to my local county sheriff today and asked him about this. He said, if his deputies were working on a crime scene "road", there would have been no way in he**, that ANYONE OR ANYTHING would be allowed to get near it until he had PERSONALLY cleared the crime scene. I wonder, if this was done by the local Sheriff that handled this scene?

I'll venture to say that valuable forensics was lost from the crime scene. :banghead:

[christine2448]

Can someone explain 'grading' the road? Why, when? (I get it, not timeline, but what it is, don't know why/when)

TIA.

[Tom'sGirl]

Oh btw/ have you heard when Brian Nichols trial is to begin?
The last I heard the trial is scheduled to begin July 10.

[Tom'sGirl]

I totally agree with you philamena!!!! I was talking to my local county sheriff today and asked him about this. He said, if his deputies were working on a crime scene "road", there would have been no way in he**, that ANYONE OR ANYTHING would be allowed to get near it until he had PERSONALLY cleared the crime scene. I wonder, if this was done by the local Sheriff that handled this scene?
LD, your quotes aren't showing who posted them!

[oceanblueeyes]

The last I heard the trial is scheduled to begin July 10.

Thank you. That one sure has taken a long time it seems.

[Littledeer]

christine:

Hope this helps!

http://www.ehow.com/how_2105545_grade-dirt-road.html

[RoseRed]

Can someone explain 'grading' the road? Why, when? (I get it, not timeline, but what it is, don't know why/when)

TIA.

Christine,
I think this can explain it better than I can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grader

I lived in rural TN on a dirt road as a child and remember the grader coming by but it wasn't done on a regular basis that I can remember.

[christine2448]

christine:

Hope this helps!

http://www.ehow.com/how_2105545_grade-dirt-road.html


Thank you, but, I get what it means, as mentioned....relating to this case, exactly when did they grade the road? The purpose of doing so?

[oceanblueeyes]

Can someone explain 'grading' the road? Why, when? (I get it, not timeline, but what it is, don't know why/when)

TIA.

I believe it was scheduled already by the county that maintains the road.

From what I recall it was done the following day after June 8th around 2 pm.

imoo

[Tom'sGirl]

Thank you, but, I get what it means, as mentioned....relating to this case, exactly when did they grade the road? The purpose of doing so?

I don't know the exact date it was graded Christine.

The only thing I come up with is that grading on that particular road is done on a scheduled basis, much like street sweepers do on paved streets. It's heavily traveled, and there had been a lot of rain and the ruts were probably pretty deep.

IF, the road had been closed to thru traffic at both ends, the graders wouldn't have entered, which leads me to believe the barriers were removed prematurely.

[kahskye]

Can someone explain 'grading' the road? Why, when? (I get it, not timeline, but what it is, don't know why/when)

TIA.

I believe it was scheduled already by the county that maintains the road.

From what I recall it was done the following day after June 8th around 2 pm.

imoo

I started emailing this reporter/editor about the dog, and also asked him yesterday about grading the roads. Here's his reply.

Here's the deal with the roads ...(Keep in mind that much of this is just my personal opinion.)

After an all night crime scene investigation, officers opened the scene, indicating the need to maintain the scene was no longer an issue.

They took down the crime scene tape and allowed people in to drive on the road, leave flowers, maintain the road, etc.

My personal opinion is the county needed to work on the road, due to the rains and increased traffic from people driving by to see where it happened. The county probably had no idea that investigators needed to return to the scene to find something four days after the shootings occurred.

In my experience, I have never seen a case where investigators have returned to the scene so many times, so long after an incident occurred.

But if investigators wanted to maintain the crime scene for future investigatory purposes, they could have done so, but chose not to.


jj

[Tom'sGirl]

I believe it was scheduled already by the county that maintains the road.

From what I recall it was done the following day after June 8th around 2 pm.

imoo
I should have read your post before I posted.............glad that you remembered the date!

[Tom'sGirl]

I started emailing this reporter/editor about the dog, and also asked him yesterday about grading the roads. Here's his reply.

Here's the deal with the roads ...(Keep in mind that much of this is just my personal opinion.)

After an all night crime scene investigation, officers opened the scene, indicating the need to maintain the scene was no longer an issue.

They took down the crime scene tape and allowed people in to drive on the road, leave flowers, maintain the road, etc.

My personal opinion is the county needed to work on the road, due to the rains and increased traffic from people driving by to see where it happened. The county probably had no idea that investigators needed to return to the scene to find something four days after the shootings occurred.

In my experience, I have never seen a case where investigators have returned to the scene so many times, so long after an incident occurred.

But if investigators wanted to maintain the crime scene for future investigatory purposes, they could have done so, but chose not to.


jj

Thank you for the info. kahskye. that's what I thought!

[ArizonaGiGi]

[quote=Trino;2330771]This interview is wonderful. Finally, someone has profiled the killers. Furhman believes there were two/three involved, that it was drug related, and one person is local. (Local might mean extended local.) He believes the girls witnessed something, or the killers thought they witnessed something, or that one of the killers (local?) would be recognized. Furhman also stated he thought the killers had training of some sort: two hits to the chest, one to the head. This, to Furhman, indicated possible police or military training, although Furhman seemed to emphasize more the police training aspect.

IMO these killings fit with drug running. These people have no morals and would "take out " anyone, including children, who got in their way. The interviewer referenced the drug related familing killing in Port Lucie, FL, where the very young children were shot along with the mother and father.[/QUOTE

A local dirty cop that both girls would recognize would certainly explain the manner and reason behind this whole thing.

:eek: I hadn't thought of that.

[Littledeer]

Tom'sGirl:

LD, your quotes aren't showing who posted them!

Good point!!

How do you do that?

[Albert18]

In my experience, I have never seen a case where investigators have returned to the scene so many times, so long after an incident occurred.

But if investigators wanted to maintain the crime scene for future investigatory purposes, they could have done so, but chose not to.



Wow. This is unsettling.

My gut feeling from the beginning was that they were doing an incremental investigation. They thought they could trot out there, turn over a couple of stones, and have this case whipped. I think this case has been eating their lunch.

Two dead little girls, why wouldn't you bring your A game from minute one.

[Littledeer]

Once again, kahskye comes through with information straight from a reporter!!

THANKS kahskye!!! :blowkiss:

Interesting to note that they had the option to maintain the "scene" for future investigative purposes, but chose NOT to.

So LE must have felt at that time they had gathered and seen everything there was to know about the crime scene and had all the evidence. :bang:

[oceanblueeyes]

Wow. This is unsettling.

My gut feeling from the beginning was that they were doing an incremental investigation. They thought they could trot out there, turn over a couple of stones, and have this case whipped. I think this case has been eating their lunch.

Two dead little girls, why wouldn't you bring your A game from minute one.

I really don't think so........so I am not going to go hard on the police. They found a lot of evidence at the crime scene that evening, night into the early morning.

Even with the road open the majority of evidence if anywhere to be found would be off the shoulder of the road and in the grass where the children were found. They had already found the tire tracks including u turn made and boot print at the scene plus the shell casings. They also returned and searched the woods within a few days, the bridge above and below it and the road scraping would have had no bearing on that.

The area of the crime scene yielded no further bullet casings which means imo they did a thorough job of collecting evidence.

Now if the bodies had been found off in a field I can understand them securing the crime scene longer but this road was used by many who traveled in the area from small community to community. That has to be taken into consideration also when releasing the road for public access.



imoo

[KR2tonenow]

This interview is wonderful. Finally, someone has profiled the killers. Furhman believes there were two/three involved, that it was drug related, and one person is local. (Local might mean extended local.) He believes the girls witnessed something, or the killers thought they witnessed something, or that one of the killers (local?) would be recognized. Furhman also stated he thought the killers had training of some sort: two hits to the chest, one to the head. This, to Furhman, indicated possible police or military training, although Furhman seemed to emphasize more the police training aspect.

IMO these killings fit with drug running. These people have no morals and would "take out " anyone, including children, who got in their way. The interviewer referenced the drug related familing killing in Port Lucie, FL, where the very young children were shot along with the mother and father.

Mark Furman is usually spot on. This rings true.

[KR2tonenow]

Okmulgee county jail inmate Joe Dean Smith

http://okokmulgee.jailsoftware.com/PressArrestRelease.asp?itbSiteID=6&ArrestNo=2008001437

This perp may have info to bring to the table regarding the murders.

[KR2tonenow]

I just heard that they arrested the husband. I have not seen any of the articles yet, but it does restore some of my faith in TPD.

Thanks, G, great to hear:)

[KR2tonenow]

Thanks! Been mostly lurking a long time and I love it here. The near-universal kindness and respect among the posters here is a real light in the dark, especially amid the awful stories in the news today.

I must admit that I hadn't considered the POI in my theory. But since I'm on a roll: the POI may be a witness himself and afraid to come forward. Maybe he's got a warrant out on him, or maybe (anything's possible) he didn't realize the significance of whatever he saw. His arrival may have scared the perps away without the POI realizing what they were up to. This could apply to any theory, not just mine.

I really hope law enforcement has been asking around in the NA community.

Great idea, I hope they have a good relationship with these folks. It could be quite possible that this POI is scared to talk.

[DeltaDawn]

I doubt the family member who "got the message" would be advertising that fact to the public. Of course they are going to SAY they don't know why it happened or who might have done it (or gotten it done)- and if it's a more distant family member or friend, they would hardly want to incriminate themselves or go to Taylor's GPa or Skyla's Mom and say that their children are dead because of THEM :eek:

The message may very well have been received loud and clear. We have just a FRACTION of the facts and evidence in this case. OSBI isn't even releasing the types or caliber of the guns used (and they do know that info according to an interview on Wed). The OSBI even said Wed the the "noose was tightening". For all we know - the OSBI may be asking GPA Placker to dodge any questions about the suspects or knowing them and we are not getting any information from Skyla's family at all.

I am getting a feeling that this may involve something bigger than just Taylor and Skyla's murders. The OSBI is being far too stingy with information and far too quiet - in a case that is getting NATIONWIDE coverage. There is a REASON the OSBI hasn't released autopsy information, the cell phone information, that they had a dog with them, the precise timeline, the gun evidence, the footprint and vehicle evidence, the POI clothing description and why they just took the POI sketch nationwide 18 days AFTER the murders.

And "personal" does not mean they were sending a message to anyone - it could be that the killer was mad or upset at one (or both) of the girls or feared they might "tell" something (like a romantic interest with a too old boy or an online flirtation/stalking?). Like I said, this was up close and personal, Tyler could have literally been almost face to face with the killer - we have to ask WHY would she let a stranger (a man?) that close to her if he was threatening to her? Even Skyla was only 5' or less off the road. The crime scene just didn't say stranger, impersonal, girls afraid...the guy either had something (Taylor's Dog?) that made them approach or he was familiar to one of them or used their names, a family/friend name etc.

My Opinion

Once again bolding is mine..yes I believe in this case if a family member got the message, in prison or out, they would have given the info to their family and LE. This family seems very close and tender hearted..and not ashamed or embarrassed by family members in jail.. They seem to still love and care about each other very much. I think if any family members knew what was going on they would have come forward by now. If they are already in jail, what would they have to lose..if not , then they would have for their own protection.

[SeriouslySearching]

While I am just catching up here, I am delighted that Kahskye contacted a reporter that is willing to communicate! Great job and you are getting some good info! (Thanks, Christine for the prodding~!)

We still do not have a motive or the POS (Sorry...I meant POI) yet, but since they are taking this nationwide (which by the way means across OUR country)...I am hopeful other agencies might have more input. I still believe the POI is from OK according to his truck...but it doesn't mean he hasn't gone somewhere else to hide.

I watched Peter on Greta last night and I had to tip my hat to him a couple of times. Whoever mentioned the things he said were few, but profound was right. He even stopped Greta in her tracks a couple of times for talking in generalities. I do feel so sorry for him and the family. I don't suspect the parents (they have earned this title imho). Taylor would be proud that he has been willing to speak out on television at all and hold his own with the likes of Greta. (It reminds me of Mark Lunsford. Not much education, but a lot of truth and common sense who says what they mean.)

[SeriouslySearching]

Once again bolding is mine..yes I believe in this case if a family member got the message, in prison or out, they would have given the info to their family and LE. This family seems very close and tender hearted..and not ashamed or embarrassed by family members in jail.. They seem to still love and care about each other very much. I think if any family members knew what was going on they would have come forward by now. If they are already in jail, what would they have to lose..if not , then they would have for their own protection.I would have to agree with you. They do seem very loving and kind-hearted people. They would want to catch the person/people responsible no matter what. Taylor and Skyla were truly loved and admired. The girls made them better people, imo.

[Trino]

I still believe the POI is from OK according to his truck...but it doesn't mean he hasn't gone somewhere else to hide.

The truck might have evidence, but IMO there's no reason to look for the POI and the truck together. With this on national news, he's long abandoned it. The truck could have also been stolen.

[christine2448]

Please continue here. (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2333702#post2333702)