Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #9

[christine2448]

Please continue General Discussions here.

[SailorMoon]

I'm gonna repost my thought here then as well ..
**
I agree with what someone said before. Why isn't this community outraged? Surely they have to be scared for their lives. Is there any locals here who can give us some insight as to what the mood is there? I'd be looking over my shoulder and phoning 911 everytime somebody looked at me weird. I mean, wouldn't you? Two little girls were gunned down in broad daylight...less than a 1/2 mile or so from their home. This isn't Compton here....I'd be so paranoid it wouldn't be funny.

I'm just not getting this one.....

[DeltaDawn]

http://www.koco.com/news/16699678/detail.html

snip/
Agents still want to talk to a man described as an American-Indian, possibly part white, who is about 35 years old and stands 6 feet tall. Brown said the man has a pony tail and drives a white Ford or Chevrolet single-cab pickup truck with chrome stripping and an Oklahoma license tag.

He was seen standing near the truck near the time and place the youngsters were shot to death.

"We just want to talk to him," Brown said. "We think he might have seen something to resolve the case."
/snip

This is from an article about the K9s they are using today for the search for more evidence.

But at the bottom of the article it says the man was seen standing by the truck. The article I quoted on the last thread said he was sitting by his truck. So either he was seen at different times doing both and there is more then one witness to him..or the other article I quoted earlier on the last thread is wrong.

When I went back to review the AMW site they say the POI was sitting...hmmm..I am beginning to think he was outside that truck both standing and sitting and more then one witness saw him.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=56421

snip/
In a press conference, the OSBI says a concerned citizen has come forward, saying the day of the murders, a man was seen sitting outside a pick up truck. Authorities have generated a composite sketch of the man.
/snip

[TeeOne]

I'm gonna repost my thought here then as well ..
**
I agree with what someone said before. Why isn't this community outraged? Surely they have to be scared for their lives. Is there any locals here who can give us some insight as to what the mood is there? I'd be looking over my shoulder and phoning 911 everytime somebody looked at me weird. I mean, wouldn't you? Two little girls were gunned down in broad daylight...less than a 1/2 mile or so from their home. This isn't Compton here....I'd be so paranoid it wouldn't be funny.

I'm just not getting this one.....


My guess is that the local's know way more than we do.

[Claudia]

My guess is that the local's know way more than we do.

That'd be my guess too.

[christine2448]

Mine three.

[SailorMoon]

Okay...then where is someone local??!!! PLEASE-- locals come here any spill your guts!! Anything, a crumb, please. This case is such a mystery to me I'm about to take a weekend trip up there and see what's around!! Not that I'm a lookie loo..well, I guess I am because I'm nosey...but I just don't get how people are even walking around without being in bullet proof coverage!!

[TeeOne]

If I were my son, I would drive over there and hangout at the local coffee shop....

[kahskye]

My guess is that the local's know way more than we do.

They know more and probably are too afraid to talk.

[TeeOne]

They know more and probably are too afraid to talk.


Exactly, it's safer to talk amongst themselves.

[evelyn24]

I'm going against the grain, and say that the locals have no clue who the killer is.
They might have juicier gossip and rumors, but that's about it.
imo

[TeeOne]

I'm going against the grain, and say that the locals have no clue who the killer is.
They might have juicier gossip and rumors, but that's about it.
imo

They certainly know more about the family dynamics, etc.
In a town that size, everyone knows everyone's business.

[Claudia]

They certainly know more about the family dynamics, etc.
In a town that size, everyone knows everyone's business.


I can attest to that. I grew up in a small town & live in an even smaller one now. Everyone knows everyone else's business. You can consider it gossip & rumors, but most of it is based on fact.

[Garnan]

I'm in Tulsa, and we're all talking about it here. There was an article about it in the Tulsa World, at the end people have posted comments...only 2.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080625_12_A1_hTofam723144

I think the mind-set (at least among people I know) is that this won't be solved.

[MCDRAW]

I can attest to that. I grew up in a small town & live in an even smaller one now. Everyone knows everyone else's business. You can consider it gossip & rumors, but most of it is based on fact.


And they never forget...no matter how many years pass.

[KR2tonenow]

Is there anything yet on the canine investigation?

[KR2tonenow]

There is poster here that has family in Weeleka. I believe its Dasaky.

[Claudia]

And they never forget...no matter how many years pass.


Isn't that the truth!?

[Feeling Nostalgic]

Just read this. Saw no one posted it. I have already posted it in media links

http://www.koco.com/news/16707622/detail.html

[Patience]

I'm in Tulsa, and we're all talking about it here. There was an article about it in the Tulsa World, at the end people have posted comments...only 2.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080625_12_A1_hTofam723144

I think the mind-set (at least among people I know) is that this won't be solved.


Thank you Garnan. Why is it that the mindset is that this case won't be solved? Do you doubt the police? are the locals keeping quiet for any reason? What are the theories of people you speak to? Am I being nosy enough. I just really appreciate you posting here.

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm gonna repost my thought here then as well ..
**
I agree with what someone said before. Why isn't this community outraged? Surely they have to be scared for their lives. Is there any locals here who can give us some insight as to what the mood is there? I'd be looking over my shoulder and phoning 911 every time somebody looked at me weird. I mean, wouldn't you? Two little girls were gunned down in broad daylight...less than a 1/2 mile or so from their home. This isn't Compton here....I'd be so paranoid it wouldn't be funny.

I'm just not getting this one.....

I am sure they are outraged and very fearful. It has been said that now there are no longer children seen out playing but these people aren't LE and can't solve this case and they know that. They have to keep hope alive that this crime will be solved.

In small towns rumors swirl in all sorts of forms. Imo no one in that town has a clue but just speculations who did this because if they had proof to any of their rumors they would turn those facts and evidence into the police and end the nightmare for everyone.

I live in a small community and last year we had a murder occur which is rare. If you listened to all the rumors then 3/4 of the people in the county would have been the suspects...when it turned out that the suspect was an out of towner that had been on a crime spree.

imoo

[SailorMoon]

Great...why did I expect this answer??? Oh, oh, oh......I hope they have a clue. Because I'm thinking this is some serial freak who they will never catch in a million years.

[kahskye]

Just read this. Saw no one posted it. I have already posted it in media links

http://www.koco.com/news/16707622/detail.html

Thanks, I'm also following the topix forum which is just alot of speculation.

http://www.topix.com/forum/source/kotv/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p104

[Garnan]

Thank you Garnan. Why is it that the mindset is that this case won't be solved? Do you doubt the police? are the locals keeping quiet for any reason? What are the theories of people you speak to? Am I being nosy enough. I just really appreciate you posting here.

Keep in mind that I don't really KNOW anything. It's just that so much time has passed and the sketch that they put out has yielded no results. Why hasn't this man been found? LE in this part of the country is basically incompetent IMO, and many others. Something should have developed by now. I think they either dropped the ball, or the perp was lucky enough not to leave anything, and there was no ball to drop.

[oceanblueeyes]

Keep in mind that I don't really KNOW anything. It's just that so much time has passed and the sketch that they put out has yielded no results. Why hasn't this man been found? LE in this part of the country is basically incompetent IMO, and many others. Something should have developed by now. I think they either dropped the ball, or the perp was lucky enough not to leave anything, and there was no ball to drop.

I am not going to get discourage just yet. Finding someone in the USA is like looking for a needle in a haystack or anywhere they may wind up. When the BOLO was put out on Cesar Laurean, that actually had his photo, it took them three months to find him even though they knew where he was for three months and had been in Mexico looking for him.

IMO the reason it is hard finding this man is there are many NAs in Oklahoma. He is not from the community where this happened imo so no one can identify him there and there may be others outside of the area that don't want to or are fearful of doing so.

imoo

[kahskye]

Just thinking outloud, but could the road have been graded to erase evidence? Could this POI have been totally made up? Was there really an eye witness? Would it be possible that this is the work of a dirty cop?

Oh, and what about the little dog that was w/ the girls?

[Trino]

Just thinking outloud, but could the road have been graded to erase evidence? Could this POI have been totally made up? Was there really an eye witness? Would it be possible that this is the work of a dirty cop?

Oh, and what about the little dog that was w/ the girls?

I've not heard of a dog, except through Roy at Topix, and I wouldn't give him much credit.

[SailorMoon]

I watched that first video again with the sheriff and he mentions "the little dog". ??? What the heck happened to it. Guess it showed back up eventually????

[RoseRed]

I've not heard of a dog, except through Roy at Topix, and I wouldn't give him much credit.
Mystery Lover is the one who brought up the little dog on the Topix forum and that is a good question. What did happen to the little dog?

[Tom'sGirl]

Mystery Lover is the one who brought up the little dog on the Topix forum and that is a good question. What did happen to the little dog?
Dog mentioned in this video:
http://www.newsok.tv/?titleID=1599177548 (http://www.newsok.tv/?titleID=1599177548)

[cloudajo]

June 9th? video with Jack Choate, Sheriff

About 40 seconds into the video I believe he says "...we were able to track them and their little dog to the bridge."

Can you listen and verify? Also, what does he say after that? I can't hear it and there is a train going by in the background.

http://www.newsok.tv/?titleID=1599177548

[oceanblueeyes]

I've not heard of a dog, except through Roy at Topix, and I wouldn't give him much credit.

I am amazed at the people that even post to this weirdo. He is nothing but a BSer to me. It shows how willing some are to believe every bad thing that someone can conjure up in their minds to say.

I noticed that he just said that a homeless man ate the Placker dog and to my amazement some are buying into that garbage. Oh my, what bull!

He is relishing in being the center of attention. He doesn't know anymore than anyone else or he sure wouldn't be hanging out on a board yakking it up non stop.

imoo

[kahskye]

June 9th? video with Jack Choate, Sheriff

About 40 seconds into the video I believe he says "...we were able to track them and their little dog to the bridge."

Can you listen and verify? Also, what does he say after that? I can't hear it and there is a train going by in the background.

http://www.newsok.tv/?titleID=1599177548

He did say they were able to track the girls and their little dog to the bridge and back. I'm wondering now if the dog showed back up home?

[ricquelle]

June 9th? video with Jack Choate, Sheriff

About 40 seconds into the video I believe he says "...we were able to track them and their little dog to the bridge."

Can you listen and verify? Also, what does he say after that? I can't hear it and there is a train going by in the background.

http://www.newsok.tv/?titleID=1599177548

It sounds like he says "and then on the return trip back."

[kahskye]

I am amazed at the people that even post to this weirdo. He is nothing but a BSer to me. It shows how willing some are to believe every bad thing that someone can conjure up in their minds to say.

I noticed that he just said that a homeless man ate the Placker dog and to my amazement some are buying into that garbage. Oh my, what bull!

He is relishing in being the center of attention. He doesn't know anymore than anyone else or he sure wouldn't be hanging out on a board yakking it up non stop.

imoo

I skip his posts, but I do think somone on that thread knows something and they aren't talking.

[cloudajo]

It sounds like he says "and then on the return trip back."

Yes, that's what it is I believe. Thanks.

[cloudajo]

He did say they were able to track the girls and their little dog to the bridge and back. I'm wondering now if the dog showed back up home?

I wonder too.

[Littledeer]

Hello Everyone!

Someone mentioned about the bridge, so I did some searching. The only thing I can find is this and I don't think it's the same one. But it did mention both Okfuskee County and Weleetka.

Here is the link for the picture:

http://okbridges.wkinsler.com/northcanadianbridge9.html

[Patience]

He did say they were able to track the girls and their little dog to the bridge and back. I'm wondering now if the dog showed back up home?

Very good find. Little dog. Taylor's pet? Did the dog make it home? Did anyone hear lots of barking or anything? The dog couldn't of been shot or we would of heard about it by now, I would think. So, when did the dog get back home or did Peter Placker see the dog on the road and he brought it home. I just don't know but let's find out.

[Littledeer]

I work for the state where I live, and trust me, no road can get graded without the County Commissioner's approval or the local jurisdiction (city, township, etc.)

Those are big projects and by law usually are required to be bidded out. The lowest and best bid usually gets the project.

I am sure we can find a site that would show scheduled bridges and/or roads that are scheduled for maintenance. (which is also usually have to be notified to the local area police departments, fire and ambulance, so they are aware that they can or can not have access to get through).

If we had someone local here they could verify if this road was scheduled to be graded.

[cloudajo]

Very good find. Little dog. Taylor's pet? Did the dog make it home? Did anyone hear lots of barking or anything? The dog couldn't of been shot or we would of heard about it by now, I would think. So, when did the dog get back home or did Peter Placker see the dog on the road and he brought it home. I just don't know but let's find out.

Good questions. I was thinking either the dog was shot too or maybe it ran home and that's what made Taylor's gfather go out and look for them. But I guess we would have heard if that happened?

[kahskye]

I work for the state where I live, and trust me, no road can get graded without the County Commissioner's approval or the local jurisdiction (city, township, etc.)

Those are big projects and by law usually are required to be bidded out. The lowest and best bid usually gets the project.

I am sure we can find a site that would show scheduled bridges and/or roads that are scheduled for maintenance. (which is also usually have to be notified to the local area police departments, fire and ambulance, so they are aware that they can or can not have access to get through).

If we had someone local here they could verify if this road was scheduled to be graded.

This just doesn't make sense to me that the road got graded right after these murders, unless someone in the LE is working for someone else on the side and covering this case up.

[cloudajo]

I work for the state where I live, and trust me, no road can get graded without the County Commissioner's approval or the local jurisdiction (city, township, etc.)

Those are big projects and by law usually are required to be bidded out. The lowest and best bid usually gets the project.

I am sure we can find a site that would show scheduled bridges and/or roads that are scheduled for maintenance. (which is also usually have to be notified to the local area police departments, fire and ambulance, so they are aware that they can or can not have access to get through).

If we had someone local here they could verify if this road was scheduled to be graded.

Hi LD. Is grading of a road more of a once in awhile thing for maintenance or a regularly scheduled thing?

[Littledeer]

Patience:

Maybe Osfuskee County requires dog licenses? Our county requires all dogs to have a license by 1/31 of each new year. Maybe someone local can check that way??

I can't see how else we can confirm a dog or not??? Unless one of the videos of the Plackers shows it?

[Littledeer]

I know a road maintenance Supervisor who does grading on the dirt roads in his township. I'll ask him tomorrow if he does it regularly or what.

I am shocked that the Sheriff's Department let that slip by them!! I would have thought they would have known about it. Even the fact that only one lane would be open. Going to check on that one too. (Meaning who do they notify and when).

[Albert18]

... I think they have a very good idea what happened and we will roll out the "red carpet" for the killer down here at OSP.

Don't be getting our hopes up. Don't be getting our hopes up.

[Littledeer]

Never mind, I got it! Death Penalty!!!!

:clap:

[Littledeer]

Has anyone looked at the bridge pic yet? Is that it you think?

[Sooner Fan]

Death Penalty....by lethal injection

[Tom'sGirl]

I am from this area, I live in McAlester and in my work I travel Weleetka on a regular basis. I don't post for the simple reason Seriously Searching thinks he's a know it all and runs this board. In my opionion, he's just plain obnoxious. Not to worry, I think they have a very good idea what happened and we will roll out the "red carpet" for the killer down here at OSP. And btw, and we are a DP state and just used it last week.
Huh :confused:

[evelyn24]

I am from this area, I live in McAlester and in my work I travel Weleetka on a regular basis. I don't post for the simple reason Seriously Searching thinks he's a know it all and runs this board. In my opionion, he's just plain obnoxious. Not to worry, I think they have a very good idea what happened and we will roll out the "red carpet" for the killer down here at OSP. And btw, and we are a DP state and just used it last week.

Please keep posting on this case, you are from the area and we'd love to have your pov.

[Patience]

Hello Everyone!

Someone mentioned about the bridge, so I did some searching. The only thing I can find is this and I don't think it's the same one. But it did mention both Okfuskee County and Weleetka.

Here is the link for the picture:

http://okbridges.wkinsler.com/northcanadianbridge9.html




Fantastic! Would you be able to post these pics in the photo thread please? Beautiful area.

[Sooner Fan]

I have been on many message boards for a long time and I know you aren't supposed to speak badly about other posters. I was simply stating that is why I don't post here. If the moderator wants to ban me...that's ok too.

[cloudajo]

Has anyone looked at the bridge pic yet? Is that it you think?

I did! I don't think that's it though.

[Patience]

SoonerFan,
Please keep posting on this case, you are from the area and we'd love to have your pov.

Yes SoonerFan, you are wanted here. This board is moderated and it is not an easy job, please bear with us. We need your input. Can you tell us more regarding the area? The community? Anything?

[Littledeer]

Sooner Fan:

Do you know where we can find a picture of this Bad Creek Bridge?

Do you know anything about the creek?

[Littledeer]

cloudajo:

I didn't think it was either. But since I didn't know for sure, didn't think it would help posting the link and see what everyone else thought.

[Sooner Fan]

I was in Weleetka and Clearview today...maybe Clearview is on google...not sure.

The best part of the day is that they had George Carlin on XM all day as a tribute. I looked like an idiot laughing while waiting at red lights...

[cloudajo]

cloudajo:

I didn't think it was either. But since I didn't know for sure, didn't think it would help posting the link and see what everyone else thought.

Is this the bridge at about 27 seconds, 44 seconds, 47 seconds?

http://www.koco.com/video/16591747/

[Littledeer]

LOL Sooner Fan

Were you able to get a sense of the mood there in Weleetka? It is a pretty small town from what I have gathered.

[Sooner Fan]

I didn't drive down that road today as I was running late. One of our insured's drove his car a little too far into the yard. The only collateral damage was the washing machine that was on the porch. I will on my next trip.

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm going against the grain, and say that the locals have no clue who the killer is.
They might have juicier gossip and rumors, but that's about it.
imo

If they really knew anything this case would be solved by now.

[Sooner Fan]

Yes, I did. And I can tell you no one is worried about a killer on the loose

[Littledeer]

:eek: I can't watch the video! It keeps telling me I don't have the correct flash player or something to that effect.

:mad:

[Tom'sGirl]

:eek: I can't watch the video! It keeps telling me I don't have the correct flash player or something to that effect.
:mad:
Probably because you're on Dial-Up and the program isn't on your computer.

I found this regarding the bridge/repair
[PDF]
XCOAWARD OKLAHOMA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION BAMS/LAS - NOTICE ... (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2001/pdfs/award0110am.pdf)

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:M89ll3GcczoJ:www.okladot.state.ok.u s/contracts/a2001/pdfs/award0110am.pdf+Bridge+over+Bad+Creek+in+Oklahoma&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us)
LOCATION : COUNTY BRIDGE OVER BAD CREEK, APPROX. 3.0 MILE SOUTH ... COUNTY: OKLAHOMA HIGHWAY NO.: MAY AVE. LENGTH: 0.0000 MILES. DESCRIPTION : BRIDGE REPAIR ...

[evelyn24]

Yes, I did. And I can tell you no one is worried about a killer on the loose

Why is that?

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, I did. And I can tell you no one is worried about a killer on the loose

So all the people that have commented in the area that they are scared are just lying.....including the police?

imo

[evelyn24]

If they really knew anything this case would be solved by now.

True. I think they have a lot of rumors and gossip, and that's about it.
I honestly think the poi is most likely the shooter, and is not connected to either girl through friends or family. If he was, they would've made an id on him already.

[Littledeer]

Tom's Girl:

Am I reading that right? That the entire road is only 0.2550 miles long?

Not even 1 mile long??? I'm assuming that's County Line Road, which means it really wasn't that far away then from the house.

[Littledeer]

On second thought, that's probably only the amount of mileage that the road work is going to be done on.

[Littledeer]

Guess the townspeople know either that the killer and/or killers are far away or they feel it's one of their own.

[SieSie]

Is this the bridge at about 27 seconds, 44 seconds, 47 seconds?

http://www.koco.com/video/16591747/
Not sure if that's the bridge or not, but they were taking photos - I compiled a screen capture for the one around 27 seconds if this helps anyone...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/Blue7/WS/TaylorSkyla/Bridge_Video.jpg

ETA: If you guys find out that this IS the bridge, you have my permission to move the picture to the photo thread. I'm gonna go watch t.v. with DH and won't be back for awhile.

[Ruflossn]

The only collateral damage was the washing machine that was on the porch. I will on my next trip.

LOL!

[TeeOne]

Yes, I did. And I can tell you no one is worried about a killer on the loose

My guess is the towns people know more than the police do.

Finally...a picture of the bridge and it looks just about how I expected it would. Thanks to whoever posted that video!

[oceanblueeyes]

My guess is the towns people know more than the police do.

Finally...a picture of the bridge and it looks just about how I expected it would. Thanks to whoever posted that video!

You mean you think the town's people are protecting a murderer?

Surely if they knew anything at all the police would know it too. I cannot imagine anyone who really has any factual evidence concerning these murders not reporting it pronto so this case could be solved.



imoo

[TeeOne]

You mean you think the town's people are protecting a murderer?

Surely if they knew anything at all the police would know it too. I cannot imagine anyone who really has any factual evidence concerning these murders not reporting it pronto so this case could be solved.



imoo

Well we know that not all the town's people are on the good side of the law. Then there's the fact that they might be scared to talk. Not everyone does the right thing. That's all I'm saying.

[christine2448]

You mean you think the town's people are protecting a murderer?

Surely if they knew anything at all the police would know it too. I cannot imagine anyone who really has any factual evidence concerning these murders not reporting it pronto so this case could be solved.



imoo

I totally and respectfully disagree. I can see people in a small town hushing and a small group knowing then maybe even more, but people hushing out of loyalty and fear. JMO, FWIW.

[cloudajo]

Not sure if that's the bridge or not, but they were taking photos - I compiled a screen capture for the one around 27 seconds if this helps anyone...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/Blue7/WS/TaylorSkyla/Bridge_Video.jpg

ETA: If you guys find out that this IS the bridge, you have my permission to move the picture to the photo thread. I'm gonna go watch t.v. with DH and won't be back for awhile.

Thanks! I'm pretty sure it is. At one point they mention that agents combed the dirt road, the bridge (and show the picture), and near the riverbed.

[cloudajo]

Other than the video with Choate, I couldn't find any pictures, videos or articles about Taylor having a dog, but Skyla did have a dog. Taylor may have had a dog too though.

GRACE: All I know about Skyla is what I've read in the newspapers, and looking at her photo. Can you tell me about her?
FARROW: Well, she was a typical tomboy. She lived out in the country. She loved animals, loved to fish. Every time she`d come over here in my yard, which they just lived about a hundred yards from me, all her animals would follow her over here.
She'd have five or six cats following her, her little dog and her goat. I'd get on to her daddy, I said, 'Now, don`t you let that goat eat my flowers,' because she'd always eat my flowers. I will miss that. I will miss her.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/index.html)

[cloudajo]

Apologies if posted already.

6/25
Authorities have already visited the site looking for more evidence, the latest was over the weekend when agents conducted a three-mile-radius search of the area. Nothing was found.

The investigation is still intense, and Brown said more than 200 leads in the case have surfaced, and agents are still checking them out.

Authorities believe at least two killers were involved, because two caliber of bullets were used to slay the girls.

They also know what type of guns were used, but they would not release that information.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080625_12_WELEE62838 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080625_12_WELEE62838)

[DeltaDawn]

Thank you everyone who posted pics of the bridge. I was the person asking about them on the pic thread.

But funny it doesn't look to me like a place a lot of people hung out at over the weekends. The vegetation is not disturbed , etc. I thought I would see more disturbance in vegetation and alot more gravel ..etc I thought if alot of people were there it wouldn't look so undisturbed.. It doesn't look like a place kids go to shoot guns..where is the trampled grass, etc.

[Beyond Belief]

Other than the video with Choate, I couldn't find any pictures, videos or articles about Taylor having a dog, but Skyla did have a dog. Taylor may have had a dog too though.

GRACE: All I know about Skyla is what I've read in the newspapers, and looking at her photo. Can you tell me about her?
FARROW: Well, she was a typical tomboy. She lived out in the country. She loved animals, loved to fish. Every time she`d come over here in my yard, which they just lived about a hundred yards from me, all her animals would follow her over here.
She'd have five or six cats following her, her little dog and her goat. I'd get on to her daddy, I said, 'Now, don`t you let that goat eat my flowers,' because she'd always eat my flowers. I will miss that. I will miss her.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/index.html)

There was a doghouse in the yard, I think when Gpa was interviewed, if that was done at the Placker home. I also saw a tent. I have wondered if the girls had been sleeping outside.

[oceanblueeyes]

I totally and respectfully disagree. I can see people in a small town hushing and a small group knowing then maybe even more, but people hushing out of loyalty and fear. JMO, FWIW.

I just cant fathom that christine, but I also respect your opinion highly. I live in a tight knit small community but when it comes to not talking and letting child murderers go free I think most people would draw the line.

Now if the victim was some adult with a criminal record a mile long..maybe but I think anyone with knowledge about these murders would tell what they know even if they felt they had to do it through anonymous tips.

JMO tho

[kahskye]

Thank you everyone who posted pics of the bridge. I was the person asking about them on the pic thread.

But funny it doesn't look to me like a place a lot of people hung out at over the weekends. The vegetation is not disturbed , etc. I thought I would see more disturbance in vegetation and alot more gravel ..etc I thought if alot of people were there it wouldn't look so undisturbed.. It doesn't look like a place kids go to shoot guns..where is the trampled grass, etc.


I agree, something just isn't right.

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you everyone who posted pics of the bridge. I was the person asking about them on the pic thread.

But funny it doesn't look to me like a place a lot of people hung out at over the weekends. The vegetation is not disturbed , etc. I thought I would see more disturbance in vegetation and alot more gravel ..etc I thought if alot of people were there it wouldn't look so undisturbed.. It doesn't look like a place kids go to shoot guns..where is the trampled grass, etc.

IIRC, they throw things into the water from the bridge above and then shoot their weapons at the targets as they float along. They just gather up on each side of the bridge most likely. Anyway that is what people use to do here on an older bridge not traveled much until police stopped it.

imoo

[SeriouslySearching]

Thank you everyone who posted pics of the bridge. I was the person asking about them on the pic thread.

But funny it doesn't look to me like a place a lot of people hung out at over the weekends. The vegetation is not disturbed , etc. I thought I would see more disturbance in vegetation and alot more gravel ..etc I thought if alot of people were there it wouldn't look so undisturbed.. It doesn't look like a place kids go to shoot guns..where is the trampled grass, etc.They probably stayed more on the bridge and the roadway. I think the photos we saw probably just didn't show an area where they would have gathered on either side of the bridge tho. People tend to stay away from the vegetation due to the snake population near the water. Rattlesnakes, copperheads, and water moccasins aren't too friendly here.

Most people would sit on the tailgates to visit, drink beer, or to shoot at things in the water etc. There wouldn't be a lot of disturbance in the area except for beer cans, cigarette butts, and trash in general.

[SeriouslySearching]

Watching the local news earlier, the attorney for the girl who gave the false tip about the burglary was speaking. He said there is another side to the story. (Of course, he is defending her!) He said a man fitting that description had been seen on their land previously several times. I don't know if I believe him...but I thought it was interesting to note.

[Claycat]

Not all small towns are the same. I live in a very small town in central Texas. I've been here for almost 11 years. I hardly know anyone except people who work in the stores and restaurants.

I have just made my first friend, and she is someone who moved out here from Austin, and opened a wholesale bakery. People just aren't that friendly here unless you have lived here your whole life or you have children in school and go to church. They aren't mean; they just aren't friendly.

[SeriouslySearching]

People are very friendly here. Rarely does a new person not get to know people fairly quickly. People go out of their way to make new people feel welcome in their small communities. If someone new moves in, people are bringing them food and welcome baskets. It is really nice.

[Beyond Belief]

greta's going to talk about the case in a little while. Probably about the dog search out there today.

[SeriouslySearching]

Since the dogs didn't find anything...it will be a short segment. LOL

[KR2tonenow]

I don't believe they are close to finding who killed these girls.

With false information from a 18 year old from Weeleka, and the canine unit finding 0.

I'd like to know, why would they have more information, and we do not?

[Beyond Belief]

:waitasec: what were they supposed to find?

[Claycat]

People are very friendly here. Rarely does a new person not get to know people fairly quickly. People go out of their way to make new people feel welcome in their small communities. If someone new moves in, people are bringing them food and welcome baskets. It is really nice.

That sounds lovely, SS! :)

[DeltaDawn]

They probably stayed more on the bridge and the roadway. I think the photos we saw probably just didn't show an area where they would have gathered on either side of the bridge tho. People tend to stay away from the vegetation due to the snake population near the water. Rattlesnakes, copperheads, and water moccasins aren't too friendly here.

Most people would sit on the tailgates to visit, drink beer, or to shoot at things in the water etc. There wouldn't be a lot of disturbance in the area except for beer cans, cigarette butts, and trash in general.

I understand SS but..where are the marks beside the road where kids would have pulled ATVs, trucks and cars to stop, socialize and shoot? The lane is very narrow, so they would have to pull off the roadway somewhat..and I just don't see any disturbance there that indicates every weekend kids parked along side that narrow lane. I thought I'd see gulleys and bare spots where cars would normally park to pull off and the kids would do their thing.

[Beyond Belief]

do you think maybe there's a dirts path/road leading down tothe water before you get to the bridge/barriers? They may party under the bridge.

[SeriouslySearching]

The dog used was trained exclusively for finding traces of explosives and bullet casings.

[KR2tonenow]

Did they say what the perimeters/sq footage the canine's covered? Did the canine unit go into the woods, look for bullets, footprints, fabric torn on trees. Give me a break! If they haven't or weren't able to locate anything, that would mean the white truck loner dude is indeed the POI-suspect!

[SeriouslySearching]

I understand SS but..where are the marks beside the road where kids would have pulled ATVs and trucks to stop, socialize and shoot? The lane is very narrow, so they would have to pull off the roadway somewhat..and I just don't see any disturbance there that indicates every weekend kids parked along side that narrow lane. I thought I'd see gulleys and bare spots where cars would normally park to pull off and the kids would do their thing.That is what I was getting at...we just didn't see the area where they probably parked in the photos or they did just congregate on the bridge. I don't doubt for a minute that kids hang out there.

[SeriouslySearching]

Did they say what the perimeters/sq footage the canine's covered? Did the canine unit go into the woods, look for bullets, footprints, fabric torn on trees. Give me a break! If they haven't or weren't able to locate anything, that would mean the white truck loner dude is indeed the POI-suspect!I haven't heard. The video they showed was the dog walking along the side of the road and then where the memorial was.

[Beyond Belief]

guy on greta said 'the immediate area'. for about 45 minutes. he also said at least said they know the kinds of guns used.
geez. something has to break soon..

[tulsa]

Did they say what the perimeters/sq footage the canine's covered? Did the canine unit go into the woods, look for bullets, footprints, fabric torn on trees. Give me a break! If they haven't or weren't able to locate anything, that would mean the white truck loner dude is indeed the POI-suspect!

This video of the dog searching doesn't answer most of your questions, but here it is anyway.

http://www.kfor.com/Global/category.asp?C=139829

[DeltaDawn]

Why ARE the dogs searching for bullet casings to begin with?

I am confused. They already have some from the crime scene, according to what they have said. Why are they looking for more? Do they suspect that the kids in the truck may have done this..therefore they were searching the other areas along the road for similiar casings and then ballisitic test? If not..why would they even need more bullet casings then they already recovered?

The casings alone will not tell who did it or with what weapon until the weapon is retrieved. Maybe the dogs were actually looking for a weapon..but LE did not want to disclose that.

[SeriouslySearching]

Family's Attorney Denies Malice In Misinformation

The family is speaking through their attorney who says it was a terrible mix-up, but insists that person of interest has been seen on their property.

The Okmulgee County Sheriff says 18-year old Brittany Stanton claimed the man broke into her home, which sets just a few miles from where the girls were killed.

~snip~

But, Stringer says the Stanton family has seen the man. He claims the family believes the man has been on their property, both before the girls died and after.

"Quite honestly I've been told things by other family members that would corroborate this child's sighting," said attorney Tom Stringer.

He says that history may be what led the 18 year old to call police and start a massive manhunt.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8555324

[CarpeDiem]

Why ARE the dogs searching for bullet casings to begin with?



Wasn't there road work done a day or two after the murders?

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, they graded the road. Maybe they have more shots than casings and wanted to find the rest.

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, they graded the road. Maybe they have more shots than casings and wanted to find the rest.

Well they said they were looking for bullet casings so imo you are right. They are coming up short according to the multiple shots that were done to the girls imo.

I remember a case one time where there were two guys that were in on a murder. One did not pick up his casings but the other one picked them up. Guess it is the individual.

If they picked them up here it makes me think it is someone who has hunted often and may use the casings again by reloading them. Which there is a machine that many hunters use where they reload their own bullets.

imoo

[Invisible]

I have read all of the main threads for this case and I have watched Nancy Grace intermittently and I have not seen this addressed...Has a profiler like John Douglas talked about what kind of killer did this crime? I would be really interested to hear what they would have to say.

[noZme]

Hello Everyone!

Someone mentioned about the bridge, so I did some searching. The only thing I can find is this and I don't think it's the same one. But it did mention both Okfuskee County and Weleetka.

Here is the link for the picture:

http://okbridges.wkinsler.com/northcanadianbridge9.html


The photos on the previous link are of a bridge over the North Canadian River which flows south & west of Weleetka & highway 75. A caption says it's "located just a few miles west of Weleetka, in eastern Okfuskee County". South of Weleetka, the North Canadian dips into Hughes County before making a loop westward then north back into Ofuskee County.

The bridge where the girls had walked is on County Line Road 3890 over Bad Creek, a lesser waterway. The Placker residence & crime scene are on that road which is north & east of Weleetka.

I believe the Bad Creek bridge is all-concrete span which is a more recent design than the North Canadian River Bridge which is metal with an overhead truss & erected in 1927. My description is based on the following 2 sites:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.37688:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:11:35.333214:-96.118609:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.37688:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:11:35.333214:-96.118609:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e)

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/hydro/fpoints/fpindex.php?fpid=weto2#photos (http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/hydro/fpoints/fpindex.php?fpid=weto2#photos)

For an accurate understanding of the bridge of interest in this story, refer to the screen-capture stills posted by SieSie here in post # 73 & in Photos, Maps & Other Images post #s 15 & 20.

[noZme]

Oh, and what about the little dog that was w/ the girls?


I watched that first video again with the sheriff and he mentions "the little dog". ??? What the heck happened to it. Guess it showed back up eventually????


I asked about Taylor's dog here about a week ago. The only mention I remembered was in one of the earliest videos when Sheriff Choate said "the girls & little dog". I questioned whether the dog had been shot too. As far as I know, that has not been answered by investigation officials.

[Claycat]

Yeah, I'm curious about the dog, too!

[Leila]

I have read all of the main threads for this case and I have watched Nancy Grace intermittently and I have not seen this addressed...Has a profiler like John Douglas talked about what kind of killer did this crime? I would be really interested to hear what they would have to say.

Excellent question! I certainly would like to hear a professional profiler state what sort of killer(s) are involved based on what is known. John Douglas is one of the best.

[SeriouslySearching]

I have read all of the main threads for this case and I have watched Nancy Grace intermittently and I have not seen this addressed...Has a profiler like John Douglas talked about what kind of killer did this crime? I would be really interested to hear what they would have to say.Pat Brown gave her take on this. I don't recall exactly what she said, but she thought it was sexual and to look for two young locals who spent most of their time together. (A lot of what she said didn't make sense to me especially since the POI doesn't fit into her scenario.)

[Beyond Belief]

Randy "Mad" Mark Yager

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=29506

[cloudajo]

Peter Placker speaks out – thanks community for support
http://www.koco.com/video/16712513/ (http://www.koco.com/video/16712513/)

[Beyond Belief]

Mr. Placker brought me to tears. I do so hope this is resolved soon.

[SeriouslySearching]

Randy "Mad" Mark Yager

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=29506While most of the photos show him on the leaner side, the one on the bike makes him look like he gained weight considerably. It is difficult to know what he would look like now as he has been on the run for so many years. None of those show him with a long pony tail and he has facial hair in every one of them, too. Not sure why we would be looking at him...did I miss something?

[SeriouslySearching]

I asked about Taylor's dog here about a week ago. The only mention I remembered was in one of the earliest videos when Sheriff Choate said "the girls & little dog". I questioned whether the dog had been shot too. As far as I know, that has not been answered by investigation officials.I wonder why? Maybe the Sheriff was mistaken and the dog wasn't with them as they first thought?

[SeriouslySearching]

Well they said they were looking for bullet casings so imo you are right. They are coming up short according to the multiple shots that were done to the girls imo.

I remember a case one time where there were two guys that were in on a murder. One did not pick up his casings but the other one picked them up. Guess it is the individual.

If they picked them up here it makes me think it is someone who has hunted often and may use the casings again by reloading them. Which there is a machine that many hunters use where they reload their own bullets.

imooThis killer/killers obviously didn't care if he/they left them as evidence since LE reported a "pile" of them. I would have to think he/they didn't pick any of them up which would possibly mean if they are "missing" some...the casings could have been inside the vehicle and not left behind. Bringing the dog in to try to find them was a good idea to rule out they were hidden by the grading of the road or off in the brush. (Gives me hope if they find the truck...they may find evidence to tie him directly to the crime inside.)

[cloudajo]

I wonder why? Maybe the Sheriff was mistaken and the dog wasn't with them as they first thought?

He could have been mistaken and maybe the dog wasn't with them. But I want to know if the dog was with them or not and was it killed too?

Choate said on 6/9 "We were able to track them and their little dog to the bridge and then on their return trip back."

My crazy thought for the day: What if the POI was driving down the road in the truck, the dog ran out, he swerved but hit it. Came to a stop parked askew, and then it escalated from there?

I know, crazy right? I think I'm losing it.

[SeriouslySearching]

Doesn't sound any more crazy than everything else that we have mentioned on these threads. (I know I have come up with some insanity here.)

There isn't a clear motive at all and we don't know what set things off. Something happened. Taylor would have "lost it" if someone had hit her dog tho.

[Beyond Belief]

The only thing insane is the crime itself. The dog could have just been chasing the truck. That kind of thing makes alot of people go into road rage.

[Claycat]

Pat Brown gave her take on this. I don't recall exactly what she said, but she thought it was sexual and to look for two young locals who spent most of their time together. (A lot of what she said didn't make sense to me especially since the POI doesn't fit into her scenario.)

This is very interesting to me, because it does fit my images!

[SeriouslySearching]

The only thing insane is the crime itself. Isn't that the truth?! Nothing makes any sense about this one.

[Beyond Belief]

This is just so strange. You would think this guy would leave a trail of death and destruction.

[SeriouslySearching]

We don't know he hasn't tho. We don't even know if he was the actual shooter or if there were others involved.

[TeeOne]

This is very interesting to me, because it does fit my images!

Claycat,
I'm very intrigued by everything you have seen & felt regarding what happened, it all seems very possible.

[oceanblueeyes]

Peter Placker speaks out – thanks community for support
http://www.koco.com/video/16712513/ (http://www.koco.com/video/16712513/)

Well watching Pete, sure brought tears to my eyes, first thing this morning.

I sure hope OSBI can find out who killed these young girls.

I am like Pete, I want to know who and how they could have done such a horrible thing.

imoo

[christine2448]

This killer/killers obviously didn't care if he/they left them as evidence since LE reported a "pile" of them. I would have to think he/they didn't pick any of them up which would possibly mean if they are "missing" some...the casings could have been inside the vehicle and not left behind. Bringing the dog in to try to find them was a good idea to rule out they were hidden by the grading of the road or off in the brush. (Gives me hope if they find the truck...they may find evidence to tie him directly to the crime inside.)

I am thinking too possibly them searching around for more casings, maybe they are seeing if similar casings are in the area because the same shooter(s) could have been shooting another day, earlier that day, that could be identified? So, if Bob and Joe were shooting in the woods, unrelated time/day and they found casing that match ones from the crime scene they could have their killers(s)? A thought. Not sure if I'm making enough sense......where is my coffeeee?

[oceanblueeyes]

I am thinking too possibly them searching around for more casings, maybe they are seeing if similar casings are in the area because the same shooter(s) could have been shooting another day, earlier that day, that could be identified? So, if Bob and Joe were shooting in the woods, unrelated time/day and they found casing that match ones from the crime scene they could have their killers(s)? A thought. Not sure if I'm making enough sense......where is my coffeeee?

:)You are making perfect sense.:)

I am sure they would search a wider area and take in all other bullet casings so they could be forensically tested in comparison to the ones located in the area of the bodies.

imo

[Patience]

This is just so strange. You would think this guy would leave a trail of death and destruction.

I agree. We would of heard of other violent crimes in the area but there apparently are not any obvious related crimes that we know of. This is an isolated incident and the girls were the intended target. It was them who had to be silenced. This tells me that they were going to tell on someone for something.

[PGW]

Does fit what you were saying, ClayCat!

Okay, what about this scenario, though, just logically not intuitively, what if they were actually reshot to confuse law enforcement. The reason for reshooting with a different gun is that the different gun is illegal and not registered, and can't be traced, so those shell casings were left behind conspicuously to make LE think this was the only type of gun. The other casings were picked up because the first murder weapon actually is registered or traceable to the shooter.

[Garnan]

Today's the first I've heard mention of a dog, and I have a theory.

The girls are walking down the road with the dog, some jack a s s, drives by and shoots the dog. The girls flip out (much like I would). He stops, maybe laughs, and they attack him. (I would). He shoots them in the anger and frenzy.

It may sound far fetched, but the world is full of jerks who shoot dogs and cats for fun. And to do it in front of those little girls may have given him a special thrill. I imagine BOTH of those girls would go crazy and go off on someone that did that.

If something like that happened to my dogs, you better believe the S.O.B. would have to shoot me.

[Beyond Belief]

they would be crying and screaming. there would also be a dead dog or its blood on the road.

btw where is the dog?

[Garnan]

they would be crying and screaming. there would also be a dead dog or its blood on the road.

btw where is the dog?

We don't know that there wasn't a dead dog there do we? He also could have tossed it in the back of his truck and disposed of it elsewhere. Much easier to get rid of a little dog body than two little girls.

[Beyond Belief]

Good point, but why bother getting rid of the dog. Or was it a dog someone would be interested in stealing.

[Beyond Belief]

Are there issues in that part of OK with illegal dog fighting or cock fighting? Maybe an issue like that rather than drug activity that they stumbled upon.

[Albert18]

The reason we don't know more about the dog is because of the pathetic reporting of this story by the local media. How could you initially see a report about a dog and not want to know more? People who go into journalism have to be the most non-curious people in the world.

[christine2448]

The reason we don't know more about the dog is because of the pathetic reporting of this story by the local media. How could you initially see a report about a dog and not want to know more? People who go into journalism have to be the most non-curious people in the world.

Why not find the article and reporter name and email them inquiring about the dog. You'd be surprised at how much info you can learn by communicating w/reporters on cases.

In Amber Harris' case, reporters would send us unedited footage of pressers even BEFORE air, ect so that we could get 'everything', the actual aired shows were edited and we would not learn things that were said or questions asked f not for the awesome reporters who worked with us.

[kahskye]

Why not find the article and reporter name and email them inquiring about the dog. You'd be surprised at how much info you can learn by communicating w/reporters on cases.

In Amber Harris' case, reporters would send us unedited footage of pressers even BEFORE air, ect so that we could get 'everything', the actual aired shows were edited and we would not learn things that were said or questions asked f not for the awesome reporters who worked with us.

Ok, I just emailed the editors in regards to the dog. Let's see if they respond.

[SuziQ]

The reason we don't know more about the dog is because of the pathetic reporting of this story by the local media. How could you initially see a report about a dog and not want to know more? People who go into journalism have to be the most non-curious people in the world.

It used to not be this way. I think the investigative part of journalism has been hurt by the recent high profile cases, where journalists flat out lied to create a story that wasn't a story to begin with. It seems to me that reporters now are glorified typists, only report on exact quotes given, and don't ask questions. How many of us have been frustrated over pressers, because the reporters present don't ask the obvious questions, or for clarification when facts given don't make sense?

Very interesting info about the dog. It very well could have been the catalyst to the murders.

[SuziQ]

Ok, I just emailed the editors in regards to the dog. Let's see if they respond.

Thanks!

[christine2448]

Ok, I just emailed the editors in regards to the dog. Let's see if they respond.

Cool beans..they may not...but you neva know unless ya try :D

[Garnan]

The reason we don't know more about the dog is because of the pathetic reporting of this story by the local media. How could you initially see a report about a dog and not want to know more? People who go into journalism have to be the most non-curious people in the world.

LOL Albert, I totally agree.

[kahskye]

Cool beans..they may not...but you neva know unless ya try :D

Just got an email back giving me two reporters/editors to email, so I emailed both of them.

[Beyond Belief]

Your awesome............:clap:

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree. We would of heard of other violent crimes in the area but there apparently are not any obvious related crimes that we know of. This is an isolated incident and the girls were the intended target. It was them who had to be silenced. This tells me that they were going to tell on someone for something.

I think that violent offenders can appear anywhere at anytime.....even in Mayberry USA settings. There are no boundaries that keep these creeps out of infiltrating a serene place.

I am really beginning to think these crimes are as senseless as they look. That is why OSBI is struggling to find them because perpetrators that are not attached to the victims in any manner are much harder to find. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack and that is why OSBI is meticulously going through all of their hundreds of leads.

[DeltaDawn]

Just got an email back giving me two reporters/editors to email, so I emailed both of them.


Wow that was a quick response..now hopefully the reporters will respond just as quick.

Thank you Kahskye!

[kahskye]

Here's our answer! :) Just received this from staff writer, Johnny Johnson:

If memory serves, the dog may have been a Chihuahua
The dog was found the next morning by law enforcing I believe somewhere near the bridge ... the dog had not been shot to my knowledge.
There are several dogs at the family's home.



jj

http://www.newsok.com/images/theOklahoman.gif (http://www.newsok.com/) Now, you're ready! (http://www.newsok.com/)
Johnny Johnson
Staff Writer The Oklahoma Publishing Co
9000 N Broadway
Oklahoma City, OK 73114 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=9000%20Broadway%20ext%20Oklahoma%20City%207 3114)jjjohnson@oklahoman.com (jjjohnson@oklahoman.com)
http://www.newsok.com (http://www.newsok.com/)tel: 405 475-3465

fax: 405 475-3183

toll free: 800 375-NEWS

[Garnan]

The dog was "found"? Was it deceased?

[Garnan]

Well, I stand by my theory, especially knowing it was a chihuahua. They are unique dogs, and I can see an ugly situation escalating over the dog.

[kahskye]

The dog was "found"? Was it deceased?

I just emailed him back to ask that. I assumed it was alive, but ya never know. From what I've read, Taylor was very fond of that little dog. Someone might have tried to grab it to bribe her. I read where they traced the dog's print to the bridge and back. I wonder just how well they looked to see if the dog made a turn back to the bridge. The gunfire might have scared him/her.

[SailorMoon]

I want to know if the dog was dead or alive too. You'd think the dog would stay near the girls and where they were..you know how protective they are...even chihuahuas.

[noZme]

my theory was, at the 1st shot the dog would have retreated into the underbrush & kept on running from repeated gunfire. he would be almost instantly hidden from the shooter. i think even a hunting dog would run from sudden shots like that...... with all the subsequent activity in the area, he hid out for a while.

when there was no further mention of the dog, i thought he may have been shot or taken by the bad guy & officials were keeping it hushed as another means to connect him with the crime. that's why i didn't bring it up here for a while.

[Invisible]

This is just so strange. You would think this guy would leave a trail of death and destruction.

That is exactly what I have always thought.

[kahskye]

I want to know if the dog was dead or alive too. You'd think the dog would stay near the girls and where they were..you know how protective they are...even chihuahuas.

Just got an email, the dog was alive.

[Garnan]

The motive has to do with the dog. Something happened between the girls and the creep, and it was about the dog. I believe that with all my heart and soul.

[Invisible]

My dogs have run out into the road before and almost gotten run over and I have had people yell at me. I live out in the country and people are often going too fast on the road and once, when my puppy (that I was chasing because it got out of the yard) ran into the road in front of the truck, the driver totally had a meltdown, not that I blame him. I was panicked also.



(There are no bad dogs, just bad pet owners.) :)

[christine2448]

Here's our answer! :) Just received this from staff writer, Johnny Johnson:


If memory serves, the dog may have been a Chihuahua
The dog was found the next morning by law enforcing I believe somewhere near the bridge ... the dog had not been shot to my knowledge.
There are several dogs at the family's home.



jj

http://www.newsok.com/images/theOklahoman.gif (http://www.newsok.com/) Now, you're ready! (http://www.newsok.com/)
Johnny Johnson

Staff Writer
The Oklahoma Publishing Co
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Seeeeeee. :D :D :D :blowkiss:

[kahskye]

The motive has to do with the dog. Something happened between the girls and the creep, and it was about the dog. I believe that with all my heart and soul.

I do too and I think the encounter first started at the bridge and caused the girls to turn and come home. I wonder if Taylor went to reach for her phone before getting shot? Did it say if it was in her pocket, or next to her? Someone wanted to keep these girls quiet about something, and that's exactly what they did.

[kahskye]

Just got another email from Johnny. osbi is now going nationwide in their search. not sure exactly what that means except for it doesn't sound like they are finding what they are looking for.


http://www.crimeweb.net:80/details.asp?id=12544

[Lyn1001]

Just got another email from Johnny. osbi is now going nationwide in their search. not sure exactly what that means except for it doesn't sound like they are finding what they are looking for.


http://www.crimeweb.net:80/details.asp?id=12544

Interesting, in update mentions trying to get any information on "the suspect". Are they using that as a general statement, or are they now saying the POI is a suspect?

[DeltaDawn]

Wow Kahskye thank you once again. So the little dog was found alive the next day in the area of the bridge. I am surprised it didn't find it's way back home by that time.

Also interesting they are going national with this search. That means if it is a local,as they first thought, then some local has been gone for awhile.

Also interesting what the 18 year old girl's lawyer says..that other family members have seen this guy in the area of their property before and after the crimes. That still could be the truth. Just that he wasn't seen that day imparticular that she called the police.

[Albert18]

... I read where they traced the dog's print to the bridge and back. I wonder just how well they looked to see if the dog made a turn back to the bridge. The gunfire might have scared him/her.

Thanks for the info.

I wonder about this as well. I hope they determined the dog became separated from the girls at the area of the shooting and not at the bridge. This would be an extremely important question to answer.

If the dog bolted at the area of the shooting I am somewhat surprised it went back to the bridge since the shooting was so close to the house. I assume the dog was very familiar with that road.

There is a nature area about 6 miles from my house where I take the dogs for a walk once in a while. To get there I make 5 turns and there are two different routes I can take. One time shortly after I got to the area some hot air balloons were taking off a short distance away. One of my dogs got scared and bolted on me. I spent an hour looking all over that place for the dog and finally went home to get my wife to help me look. When I got home the dog was there waiting for me.

[Albert18]

Kahskye, do you have Rosser's email address? I could come up with a few questions for him also.

I think LE is stuck. Just plain stuck.

I was hoping the canvassing of the area this last weekend and bringing in the dog meant they were trying to find something specific, but now I think they were just beating the bushes.

Not good.

[Invisible]

Albert, if you e-mail Rosser, will you ask him if the dog was hurt in any way? Were there any scrapes or injuries on the dog that would have prevented the dog from going back home?
TIA

[Albert18]

Albert, if you e-mail Rosser, will you ask him if the dog was hurt in any way? Were there any scrapes or injuries on the dog that would have prevented the dog from going back home?
TIA

Oh, I was joking.

[Invisible]

OOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhh. Sorry. :)

[oceanblueeyes]

Interesting, in update mentions trying to get any information on "the suspect". Are they using that as a general statement, or are they now saying the POI is a suspect?

I think they are now pulling out all the stops in order to find this POI. I hope this means they have finally asked for the FBIs help.

imoo

[Garnan]

Here's an example of inept police work in this part of the country. This week a woman was killed (shot) in her bed at 4 am. Husband says somebody broke into the house shot and killed her and shot him in the hand. He give a vague description of the perp and claims that he had a couple hundred dollars that is now missing.

Cops are in an all out manhunt. Helllllloooooooooo! The perp is standing right in front of you.

[Albert18]

Well, let's not stop with the little yellow dog. I have more questions.

* Where did the original 5pm start of the timeline come from and what info caused them to change it to 4:30pm or thereafter?

* What time were Taylor and Skyla last seen alive?

* Is there any info besides the two weapons that leads you to think it was two shooters?

* Did the witness who drove past the POI mention the girls?

* I assume that after the shootings, the killer beat a hasty retreat. Did anyone see the white truck leaving the area at high speed or does anybody remember any other vehicle speeding?

* Did people who weren't on that particular part of the road see the POI in the white truck and if so, how many people were in the truck?

* How close do you think the shooter was to the girls?

* Was the shooter at ground level?

* Did they get good enough tire imprints from the scene to determine the brand of tire and does this help in identifying whether it was a Ford or Chevy?

* Are the shell casings from both weapons or just one?

* You recently announced you know what type of weapons were used and now we are being told you want to take the search national. Any connection between these two?

* Let's assume for a moment there are no lawyers. Do you think the POI is a/the shooter? If so, then help me with one POI but two shooters.

* Where did Peter find Taylor's cell phone?

* Estimated time of crime?????

* Type of weapons used?????

[evelyn24]

The motive has to do with the dog. Something happened between the girls and the creep, and it was about the dog. I believe that with all my heart and soul.

Then I think he/they would've shot the dog and not the girls, no?

[evelyn24]

Wow Kahskye thank you once again. So the little dog was found alive the next day in the area of the bridge. I am surprised it didn't find it's way back home by that time.

Also interesting they are going national with this search. That means if it is a local,as they first thought, then some local has been gone for awhile.

Also interesting what the 18 year old girl's lawyer says..that other family members have seen this guy in the area of their property before and after the crimes. That still could be the truth. Just that he wasn't seen that day imparticular that she called the police.

Didn't she fail a poly, though?

[christine2448]

Then I think he/they would've shot the dog and not the girls, no?


Good point. IMO.

[evelyn24]

I think they are now pulling out all the stops in order to find this POI. I hope this means they have finally asked for the FBIs help.

imoo

I think this man bolted as soon as he did this crime, and maybe into Mexico.
He is not an immediate local, but definitely from OK (tag was an OK tag), maybe he knows the area because he lived there as a kid years and years ago?
Maybe he visited friends who once lived there many years ago, or just found the road by traveling around looking for some trouble.
I do not think he is in any way connected to either girl and that's why they haven't been able to ID him yet.

[KR2tonenow]

From BB's post:Randy "Mad" Mark Yager

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=29506

I've read almost every post on this case, and this is a first for me. How interesting that he is on AMW's top 15 list, Most Wanted.

This case could be about stolen vehicles, drug manufacturing, drug dealing, arms dealing and the murder of woman and children.

Mad Yager fits right in with this case. IMO

Also, thanks for the response re: canine's. I sure hope they come up with more then bullet casings. When the girls were shot, I don't recall what "bullets" were used?

from SS post:
Pat Brown gave her take on this. I don't recall exactly what she said, but she thought it was sexual and to look for two young locals who spent most of their time together. (A lot of what she said didn't make sense to me especially since the POI doesn't fit into her scenario.)

I remember hearing her say that. I'd like to see someone else do a criminal profile on this POS.

[Annie]

I have been thinking about the case of the two young missionaries who were killed, shot in the head, while they slept on a California beach in 2004. Apparently just a ramdom killing for an unknown reason. As far as I know the killer has never been caught. Then there were the ramdom people killed by Lee Malvo and John Muhammed. Or those killed by the Son of Sam killer or the Zodiac. I am sure there are other cases like this but a random killing can occur simply because someone was in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone evil had killing on his mind. Someone who was very angry at the world and took it out on strangers. I think this could have happened with Taylor and Skyla. Because there hasn't been a killing spree doesn't mean a lot because sometimes there was a longer time period between killings.

[FLtwinmom]

I was born and raised in NE Oklahoma. My family still lives there. I have several relatives in law enforcement however none in Weleetka. Actually my dad and uncle are both retired now. I called my dad to get some insight on the case and he was very quiet. My mom lives 20 minutes from Weleetka. I talked to her earlier today and this is what she told me a couple of days after -so it is just what I heard-That a threat was called in the evening of the crime, to shoot any LEO out in the area. Could be a prank I don't know. She said gossip at first, was about the girls witnessing a drug deal. But now she said the feeling is they have run out of leads. One of the first responders asked her to pray for them. If I hear any thing else that is helpful I will let you know.

[evelyn24]

I have been thinking about the case of the two young missionaries who were killed, shot in the head, while they slept on a California beach in 2004. Apparently just a ramdom killing for an unknown reason. As far as I know the killer has never been caught. Then there were the ramdom people killed by Lee Malvo and John Muhammed. Or those killed by the Son of Sam killer or the Zodiac. I am sure there are other cases like this but a random killing can occur simply because someone was in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone evil had killing on his mind. Someone who was very angry at the world and took it out on strangers. I think this could have happened with Taylor and Skyla. Because there hasn't been a killing spree doesn't mean a lot because sometimes there was a longer time period between killings.


I agree, and didn't the DC snipers start their murderous partnership months before they went on the MD/DC/VA shooting spree? It's a shame, I live in the area but I forget when they first shot and killed a stranger, but I think it was in the south a few months before they came here to my area.

[EnvoyDriver61]

I wonder if the dog's behavior might indicate that the girls were shot from the front/south, and it retreated to the only safety available to the north. Then, there were ambulances and crime scene specialists late in the night on that road. I can see the dog retreating to the bridge until the next day since his means to go home was blocked for the next 18 hours or so.

[GetSmart]

Well now that they are taking the next step (National) does this mean Nancy Grace, Greta, Geraldo...(The 3 G's) will give it more coverage? I hope someone does for goodness sake.

[DeltaDawn]

I was born and raised in NE Oklahoma. My family still lives there. I have several relatives in law enforcement however none in Weleetka. Actually my dad and uncle are both retired now. I called my dad to get some insight on the case and he was very quiet. My mom lives 20 minutes from Weleetka. I talked to her earlier today and this is what she told me a couple of days after -so it is just what I heard-That a threat was called in the evening of the crime, to shoot any LEO out in the area. Could be a prank I don't know. She said gossip at first, was about the girls witnessing a drug deal. But now she said the feeling is they have run out of leads. One of the first responders asked her to pray for them. If I hear any thing else that is helpful I will let you know.


Very interesting Fl..I think that it seems plausible whoever did this would not find it unusual to make a threat to LE.

[ArizonaGiGi]

I wonder if the dog's behavior might indicate that the girls were shot from the front/south, and it retreated to the only safety available to the north. Then, there were ambulances and crime scene specialists late in the night on that road. I can see the dog retreating to the bridge until the next day since his means to go home was blocked for the next 18 hours or so.

Ya I have a big question about why the dog didn't hightail it home for so long. It was definitely with the girls and was terrified. Too bad it can't talk!

[kahskye]

Then I think he/they would've shot the dog and not the girls, no?

He may have shot at the dog and missed. In his vengful state, he opened fired on the girls making sure not to miss again.

Edited to add: due to the activity on that road and the rain, the dog might have seeked shelter under the bridge.

[murdershewrote]

Glad they are going national, but I certainly hope they had sent this sketch to all other LE agencies before this...

Have any lab tests come back on the girls...DNA under their fingernails, hair on their clothing, rape kit, anything at all??? What's taking so long. LE needs to start releasing all of what they know...everything they found in the area. I'm sure the same people hang out at this bridge all the time...I find it hard to believe that nobody knows anything. I think somebody is hiding information. In this case, we have two bodies, tire tracks, sketch, description of vehicle, bullet casings, timeline, witness...crimes have been solved with alot less.

[Littledeer]

WOW, great job sleuthers!! :clap:

So it's been confirmed that there was a dog with the girls. It was found the NEXT DAY by the bridge.

I really am having a hard time wrapping my head around this scenario. First, I would think the killer or killers would have shot the dog to prevent any interference it might create to protect the girls (lunging at the feet, etc.). So, maybe the dog wasn't right with the girls at that time (maybe it had moved off into the woods a little to do it's thing?) and the girls were just standing there waiting for him to come back?

Then when the shots rang out, I can understand a dog running away from the sound, but I would think after the sound is gone, it would return to the spot where the girls were at??

Does anyone know what type of personality a chichaua (sp?) has??

[Garnan]

Then I think he/they would've shot the dog and not the girls, no?

Chihuahua's are fast. I'm not kidding, also a very, very small target. If he was trying to shoot the dog, the girls would have been on him like white on rice.

[murdershewrote]

sorry, I missing something...how do we know for sure that this dog was with the girls?

[Littledeer]

That's what I mean Garnan.

They are fast. So if he sensed the girls were in danger, why didn't he react to it?

[philamena]

they would be crying and screaming. there would also be a dead dog or its blood on the road.

btw where is the dog?

Excellent points BB. :clap:

[DeltaDawn]

On one of the first news videos it talks about the little dog going along with the girls for the walk. Then we heard nothing more about the little dog. Kahskye emailed a reporter and he emailed back that the little dog was found alive the next day at the bridge.

[Littledeer]

I noticed where some posters have seen the video of Peter Placker, did you also see the video of the other grandfather Tony Paschal-Placker that I posted this morning under Videos?

Maybe, I should have put it in the Media Thead..............

[philamena]

Just got another email from Johnny. osbi is now going nationwide in their search. not sure exactly what that means except for it doesn't sound like they are finding what they are looking for.


http://www.crimeweb.net:80/details.asp?id=12544


Nationwide? hummm does that mean OSBI knows the killer isn't in town?
Isn't even in the state?

[Garnan]

That's what I mean Garnan.

They are fast. So if he sensed the girls were in danger, why didn't he react to it?


I don't understand your point, the dog did re-act, he ran and hid. That's so typical of a little dog. If I have a plumber or somebody like that at my house, mine immediately get under something, coffee table or whatever. That little dog ran and got under the bridge.

[oceanblueeyes]

I noticed where some posters have seen the video of Peter Placker, did you also see the video of the other grandfather Tony Paschal-Placker that I posted this morning under Videos?

Maybe, I should have put it in the Media Thead..............

When I clicked on the one that you have linked in the video thread it is the one of Peter Placker.

Do you have the link Littledeer. I hadn't heard the one by Tony.

thanks

[murdershewrote]

so this dog was not one of the girls' dogs...just another dog that happened to be tagging along with them both going to the bridge and back? I mean, if it was her dog, then I would think the grandfather (father) would have mentioned that her dog came back that night, or didn't come back that night, after their bodies were found. I think that would have been an important bit of information. Was this a stray or does it belong to someone? Oh, how I wish doggies could talk.

[athy]

the dog could have been chasing the truck also. these dogs are small and skittish but they're also loyal. it might have only been able to chase the killer/killers so far before losing it which could explain why it wasn't found until next day. especially considering i'm sure the LE was up by the bridge that night.

[oceanblueeyes]

so this dog was not one of the girls' dogs...just another dog that happened to be tagging along with them both going to the bridge and back? I mean, if it was her dog, then I would think the grandfather (father) would have mentioned that her dog came back that night, or didn't come back that night, after their bodies were found. I think that would have been an important bit of information. Was this a stray or does it belong to someone? Oh, how I wish doggies could talk.

From what the reporter said it was one of Taylor's dogs. They had several dogs the reporter said.

imoo

[Littledeer]

Garnan:

First let me apologize. Didn't mean to use the word "point" to come out harshly.

A scenario, I am walking with my dog, a person comes up to me in a threatening manner, my dog would be on high alert, maybe even growl. If that person would take a step closer to me and I said something in a scared voice or screamed, he would probably have lunged toward that person to protect me.

So I was wondering why this dog didn't? Is it not in a that type of breed to react that way?

You had mentioned that Chihuahua's are fast, are they also protective?

Am I making any sense here?

[murdershewrote]

I find it fascinating that LE could track this little dog's prints to the bridge and back (if I'm reading the posts correctly), yet they don't have any footprints of the perp(s) right at the scene. That seems very odd to me.

[Littledeer]

oceanblueeyes:

When I saw that video this morning, it said it was Tony Paschal-Placker talking.

They must have had the wrong grandfather's name on it then. I cannot see videos as I have dial up and don't have the right software according to Tom'sGirl.

I will go back and edit my post to read Peter Placker.

Thanks for letting me know!!:blowkiss:

[Littledeer]

I wish they had gone national earlier! That sketch is one of the best I have ever seen, so I figured no problem in finding him.

It's now going on the third week, so he is either long long gone, or he is dead.

I don't think that it is someone that altered his appearance (how could he with the way he looked?) as I think it was a spur of the moment killing.

[murdershewrote]

The Character of Chihuahuas

The Chihuahua is an excellent companion for singles and the elderly. They are very spry and can leap as high as cats; they’re also great at avoiding being stepped on! Not daunted by size, they are bold and brave watchdogs that send a threatening, surprisingly deep bark when strangers enter their range. Of course, because they are small, their bark is much worse than their bite!

Chihuahuas tend to act nervous in the company of anybody except their primary owner, but they’re also fun-loving and full of bravado when left to their own devices. Some Chihuahuas are they hard to train, and require “newspaper” training to become housebroken. They are also very gentle creatures that learn quickly and respond well to positive reinforcement.

Chihuahuas enjoy chewing on toys, and you would be surprised at how sharp their little teeth are. Although they are small, they require large, soft chew toys if you want to keep them from chewing on your prized possessions.

The Chihuahua’s Ideal Environment

Chihuahuas are small creatures that don’t require a lot of space; they fit in perfectly with an apartment environment. Because of their size, they are especially sensitive to cold and actually NEED the doggie sweaters you can buy at your local pet store (http://www.essortment.com/all/breedcharacteri_rnxr.htm#). They don’t need a large yard and, quite frankly, shouldn’t be given a place to roam freely as they can easily fit through small spaces.

Also, because of their tiny size, Chihuahuas usually require a body harness rather than a leash and require several walks a day. They tire quickly and really only need to walk a block or so; but if you want to continue walking, you can always carry them around with you.

The Chihuahua’s Companions

Chihuahuas tend to be a “one-person-dog” and become very attached to their primary owner. They tend to get jealous of visitors and act suspicious and “skittish” around strangers. They tend to follow their owner all over the house and get nervous when you leave their field of vision.

Chihuahuas and children are not a good combination; because of their size, they are easily intimidated by loud noise and sudden movement. Their only defense when faced with a teasing child may be to snap and bite. They are fragile animals and should not be allowed to sleep with their owners because you can accidentally roll over and injure them.
Chihuahuas, like other dog breeds, need gradual socialization to keep them from picking fights with larger dogs and strangers. They don’t get along with other dogs because any other dog breed will attempt to dominate them, and cats are intimidating for them, too. The only animal companion that is safe for a Chihuahua is another Chihuahua. Even if you live in an apartment, there will probably be enough room and enough love to go around if you choose to adopt two of this breed!

[philamena]

Chihuahua's are loving to their owners. More than likely they love 1 of their owners. They are ectremely protective and will bark their heads off and bite if they feel the least bit threatened.

So did the murderer think it was ok to slaughter 2 young girls but not a dog?
Or did the dog run off as soon as he heard the shots?

[Littledeer]

The Character of Chihuahuas

I did a cut and paste on some of the points that I wanted to single out:

They are very spry and can leap as high as cats; they’re also great at avoiding being stepped on! Not daunted by size, they are bold and brave watchdogs that send a threatening, surprisingly deep bark when strangers enter their range. So possibly this dog did? Of course, because they are small, their bark is much worse than their bite!

Chihuahuas tend to act nervous in the company of anybody except their primary owner, Kinda contradicts the sentence above about feeling threatened by strangers??

The Chihuahua’s Ideal Environment

Also, because of their tiny size, Chihuahuas usually require a body harness rather than a leash and require several walks a day. They tire quickly and really only need to walk a block or so; but if you want to continue walking, you can always carry them around with you. hmmmmmmm. wonder if her dog was found with a leash?? probably not. But the tiring quickly caught my eye. How many blocks would you say it would have been to the bridge and then back to where Taylor and Skyla were found??

The Chihuahua’s Companions

Chihuahuas tend to be a “one-person-dog” and become very attached to their primary owner. They tend to get jealous of visitors and act suspicious and “skittish” around strangers. They tend to follow their owner all over the house and get nervous when you leave their field of vision.

Chihuahuas and children are not a good combination; because of their size, they are easily intimidated by loud noise and sudden movement. So if the guns were fired first before any "threatening" moves, he would have probably have run off.

[FlowerChild]

I find it fascinating that LE could track this little dog's prints to the bridge and back (if I'm reading the posts correctly), yet they don't have any footprints of the perp(s) right at the scene. That seems very odd to me.

They DO have footprints and tire prints from the scene - not much help until you have a shoe/boot/tire to match them with. In the beginning they talked a lot about the footprint they had - they have it posted in the Investigation HQ in Okfuske.

[KR2tonenow]

Here's an example of inept police work in this part of the country. This week a woman was killed (shot) in her bed at 4 am. Husband says somebody broke into the house shot and killed her and shot him in the hand. He give a vague description of the perp and claims that he had a couple hundred dollars that is now missing.

Cops are in an all out manhunt. Helllllloooooooooo! The perp is standing right in front of you.

I have to agree with you, I saw that post. That poor woman!!

[Littledeer]

That's right FlowerChild.

I had forgotten about the footprint that is posted at the office. And your right, unless there is something to compare it to, it doesn't mean much right now. Except, it IS THERE!!!!

Maybe we need an "Evidence" thead??

No, just kidding. We have enough threads now I think.

[murdershewrote]

thanks for the update on the footprint...I would think they could tell height and approx weight by the size and depth of the print, and whether it was say an athletic shoe vs a boot. If they just found one footprint, kind of contradicts their theory on two shooters.

[KR2tonenow]

posted by FLTM:

Very interesting Fl..I think that it seems plausible whoever did this would not find it unusual to make a threat to LE.

Right, I tend to agree with this theory. These murders are a result of a crime far larger. OK has been the battleground for running guns, and probably big drug deals from south of the border.

Who knows what kind of people are involved!?

[Busylady]

Very good radio interview.

http://www.1170kfaq.com/audio/pc&markfuhr... (http://www.1170kfaq.com/audio/pc&markfuhr...)

I am not sure if he is saying the girls were shot twice in the chest and one in the head or if he is just stating that as an example?

[KR2tonenow]

from MSW post:
Have any lab tests come back on the girls...DNA under their fingernails, hair on their clothing, rape kit, anything at all??? What's taking so long. LE needs to start releasing all of what they know...everything they found in the area. I'm sure the same people hang out at this bridge all the time...I find it hard to believe that nobody knows anything. I think somebody is hiding information. In this case, we have two bodies, tire tracks, sketch, description of vehicle, bullet casings, timeline, witness...crimes have been solved with alot less.

I recall hearing that the autopsy results would be out in 3 weeks. From last weeks preliminary autopsy findi