Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #10

[christine2448]

Please continue general discussions here. Previous threads can be found w/links at the bottom of your page.

[oceanblueeyes]

QUOTE=SeriouslySearching;2333646]While I am just catching up here, I am delighted that Kahskye contacted a reporter that is willing to communicate! Great job and you are getting some good info! (Thanks, Christine for the prodding~!)

We still do not have a motive or the POS (Sorry...I meant POI) yet, but since they are taking this nationwide (which by the way means across OUR country)...I am hopeful other agencies might have more input. I still believe the POI is from OK according to his truck...but it doesn't mean he hasn't gone somewhere else to hide.

I watched Peter on Greta last night and I had to tip my hat to him a couple of times. Whoever mentioned the things he said were few, but profound was right. He even stopped Greta in her tracks a couple of times for talking in generalities. I do feel so sorry for him and the family. I don't suspect the parents (they have earned this title imho). Taylor would be proud that he has been willing to speak out on television at all and hold his own with the likes of Greta. (It reminds me of Mark Lunsford. Not much education, but a lot of truth and common sense who says what they mean.)[/QUOTE]

Exactly! You read my mind. I thought of Mark Lunsford instantly. Peter like Mark is not a polished man or a learned man but a wise man with a heart that weeps for the loss of his child and her little friend.

It had to be scary for him last night as Greta was barking in his ear and trying to lead him. It would have been much better if she was there face to face with him, like the area reporter that did the other interview.

I hope and pray that both of these families remain strong in their faith and continue to believe this case will be solved. Imo at their time of overwhelming grief this is all the hope they have left that sustains them to make it another day.

imo

[SeriouslySearching]

People in Oklahoma are just as he described...we will be there to support the families. The people in the community that never knew the family before will make it their goal to help them and not just for the moment. He has lifelong friends from strangers. We have a good heart and a long lasting memory.

Maybe this is why some of you don't understand my "passion" on cases. I am from Oklahoma. We truly care about other people. It could be in our genes or it could be the way we are raised...but it is there. We don't normally have to apologize for it.

[Rag Doll 02]

People in Oklahoma are just as he described...we will be there to support the families. The people in the community that never knew the family before will make it their goal to help them and not just for the moment. He has lifelong friends from strangers. We have a good heart and a long lasting memory.

Maybe this is why some of you don't understand my "passion" on cases. I am from Oklahoma. We truly care about other people. It could be in our genes or it could be the way we are raised...but it is there. We don't normally have to apologize for it.

Well Seriously Searching, maybe it just that you are a very sweet caring person too and thats why you care so much !! And the Oklahoma stuff just adds to it and makes you that much more special !!:blowkiss:

[Tom'sGirl]

People in Oklahoma are just as he described...we will be there to support the families. The people in the community that never knew the family before will make it their goal to help them and not just for the moment. He has lifelong friends from strangers. We have a good heart and a long lasting memory.

Maybe this is why some of you don't understand my "passion" on cases. I am from Oklahoma. We truly care about other people. It could be in our genes or it could be the way we are raised...but it is there. We don't normally have to apologize for it.
O/T remark.......would you call my friend in McLoud and tell her that, she hasn't gotten that info. :)

[Ruflossn]

People in Oklahoma are just as he described...we will be there to support the families. The people in the community that never knew the family before will make it their goal to help them and not just for the moment. He has lifelong friends from strangers. We have a good heart and a long lasting memory.

Maybe this is why some of you don't understand my "passion" on cases. I am from Oklahoma. We truly care about other people. It could be in our genes or it could be the way we are raised...but it is there. We don't normally have to apologize for it.


I too am from Oklahoma. Although I have not lived there for many years, I still consider it "my home". My husband never understood my passion for it until he visited OKC with me in May. He was blown away by the general camaraderie that exists between "Okies". While I no longer live in Okla. my heart will forever be there. I ache for the families of these little girls. Please let the murderer be found soon.

[SeriouslySearching]

I too am from Oklahoma. Although I have not lived there for many years, I still consider it "my home". My husband never understood my passion for it until he visited OKC with me in May. He was blown away by the general camaraderie that exists between "Okies". While I no longer live in Okla. my heart will forever be there. I ache for the families of these little girls. Please let the murderer be found soon.We do have this "heart" that makes us different. We were raised to deeply care. Sounds broad, but it isn't. I don't know how to explain it to other people across the country that have not experienced it...but I would say we are all raised with this sense of family/community/state. We are in this together no matter what. The same as the family unit. We are always cognizant of each other and treat them as "family".

I am delighted you are an Okie, too. :)

[Rag Doll 02]

I saw and was impressed by the love and compassion Oklahomians showed during that home grown terrorist bombing--- the Murrah Federal building /Timothy McVeigh.

I will never forget the reaction of the entire town-- pictures of broken hearted firemen bringing out children from the wreakage.... just heart wrenching !!

[Fairy1]

We do have this "heart" that makes us different. We were raised to deeply care. Sounds broad, but it isn't. I don't know how to explain it to other people across the country that have not experienced it...but I would say we are all raised with this sense of family/community/state. We are in this together no matter what. The same as the family unit. We are always cognizant of each other and treat them as "family".

I am delighted you are an Okie, too. :)

While I'm sure you speak on behalf of many Oklahomans - you cannot speak in such sweeping generalities. There are bad guys in Oklahoma - just like everywhere else. It appears that one of those bad guys brutally executed these girls on a country road in broad daylight. That cannnot be glossed over. OTOH, I do not believe - for one second - that someone in that area who may know what happened will remain silent indefinitely. If someone knows something, they will come forward. I hope and pray...

[Trino]

While I'm sure you speak on behalf of many Oklahomans - you cannot speak in such sweeping generalities. There are bad guys in Oklahoma - just like everywhere else. It appears that one of those bad guys brutally executed these girls on a country road in broad daylight. That cannnot be glossed over. OTOH, I do not believe - for one second - that someone in that area who may know what happened will remain silent indefinitely. If someone knows something, they will come forward. I hope and pray...

Oklahoma is a great state, but there are other states with people who have the same affection for their state. The general problem is the neighborly atmosphere in the US has drastically changed in the last 50 years, and I don't see things getting back to "the way we were." Bad guys (and girls) have found their way to every township, county, city, and state - even the small town of Weleetka.

[Annie]

Oklahoma is a great state, but there are other states with people who have the same affection for their state. The general problem is the neighborly atmosphere in the US has drastically changed in the last 50 years, and I don't see things getting back to "the way we were." Bad guys (and girls) have found their way to every township, county, city, and state - even the small town of Weleetka.

I agree. There are good people and bad people in every state. I have lived in several states and in all of them I have found people who would give you the coat off their back and others who would steal it from you.
I don't think it is in the genes, but it has a lot to do with the way people are raised, and as you say it is changing. People are so involved in their work and have so many things that they are involved with in their homes such as hundreds of TV channels and computers that they spend hours on, many do not have the same contact with their neighbors as in years past. But when something bad happens, people come together from all over, not just Oklahoma, to help. Many people on these boards go into the cases with a passion, especially when a child is involved so we have no trouble understanding the passion of someone from Oklahoma. I know a lot of wonderful people from Oklahoma. But reading the crime stats of the state, I know they have their share of criminals too. We usually love the place we grew up and will always have special feelings remembering the love of our family and friends as we grew up. But to think it is inclusive to only one state is very condescending.

[Claycat]

Hey, Lovely People, we are citizens of the world, and we are all connected!

:worldmap:

[cloudajo]

I snipped out a few paragraphs I thought were interesting based on previous discussions…
================

The Society to Preserve Indigenous Rights and Indigenous Traditions, or SPIRIT, issued a press release Wednesday objecting to the generic nature of a recently released police sketch of an American Indian man as a "person of interest" in the ongoing investigation of the Weleetka child-murders.

"That picture could be probably 10,000 Indian men in Oklahoma — my brother, my cousin, my friend. I look at it, and if they pulled back their hair in a ponytail — there you go," said Brenda Golden, a spokeswoman for the organization.

But Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, said the sketch isn't generic. She cited specific information, such as the man's height of 6 feet and hair length, which is down his back in a ponytail. "What do you want — a tattoo on his forehead?" Brown asked.

She said the forensic artist who made the sketch has 30 years of experience. She said not releasing the sketch would have been criticized and that the man is not a suspect.

Golden also cited a high-profile 1994 incident in which Susan Smith of South Carolina was convicted of drowning her two young sons. She told authorities that she was carjacked by a black man, who drove off with the boys. "She actually went as far as to work with the police officers to make a drawing," Golden said.

Willingham said people questioned at crime scenes are either giving descriptions based on what they perceive to be true or are giving false information to shift blame from themselves. He said officers go with the best information available. "It's up to the individual's perception," Willingham said. "We can't discount a witness because we're not sure if what they're saying is true."

Pleas Thompson, president of the Tulsa Chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said criminals blame minorities as easy targets. "I think, especially a person who committed a crime thinks they might point the suspicion away from them if (the perception is) that a black or Indian is more likely to do something like this than a Caucasian," he said.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_11_A4_spancl9259 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_11_A4_spancl9259)

[oceanblueeyes]

I am not surprised it has now turned into a race issue.

What do they expect LE to do? If the POI happens to be black, American Indian or some other minority, they can't put the sketch out depicting their possible race for fear they would be called racist?

A witness or POI is what they are. If they are white,black, blue or green then the composite should depict that.

I also saw another sketch done by this artist and it was of a black man, did they cry racist when that one was put out? When they found this murderer and arrested him ......well.......yes he was a black man.

OSBI must go by what the witnesses tell them. To not do so would be a derelict of duties. They are not there to be PC but to try and solve crimes including all races.

Just because Susan Smith and a few other murderers put out false composites doesn't mean this person did who is not even a family member or connected to this case per Brown. I highly doubt that the person who gave the composite is the killer like the Susan Smiths of the world since several others also stated they saw this same man that day on that road.

It strange though we never seem to hear this rift when we see composite saying the POI is white.

[cloudajo]

What does it mean exactly that the case is going "national?" Does that just mean the OSBI will work with other states more to get the info out there?

Also, I looked at the AMW website to see if anything would be on their show tonight. From the episode guide for tonight, it doesn't look that way, but maybe they will have it on.

It is listed for the 6-14 episode guide from 2 weeks ago.

America’s Most Wanted – TV Schedule

6-28 Episode
http://www.amw.com/show_archive/tv_detail.cfm?currentDate=2008-06-28&action=next (http://www.amw.com/show_archive/tv_detail.cfm?currentDate=2008-06-28&action=next)

6-14 Epidsode
http://www.amw.com/show_archive/tv_detail.cfm?currentDate=2008-06-14&action=previous (http://www.amw.com/show_archive/tv_detail.cfm?currentDate=2008-06-14&action=previous)

[cloudajo]

I am not surprised it has now turned into a race issue.

What do they expect LE to do? If the POI happens to be black, American Indian or some other minority, they can't put the sketch out depicting their possible race for fear they would be called racist?

A witness or POI is what they are. If they are white,black, blue or green then the composite should depict that.

I also saw another sketch done by this artist and it was of a black man, did they cry racist when that one was put out? When they found this murderer and arrested him ......well.......yes he was a black man.

OSBI must go by what the witnesses tell them. To not do so would be a derelict of duties. They are not there to be PC but to try and solve crimes including all races.

Just because Susan Smith and a few other murderers put out false composites doesn't mean this person did who is not even a family member or connected to this case per Brown. I highly doubt that the person who gave the composite is the killer like the Susan Smiths of the world since several others also stated they saw this same man that day on that road.

It strange though we never seem to hear this rift when we see composite saying the POI is white.

I agree that they are obligated to go by what the witnesses tell them unless they have evidence that proves otherwise.

I'm still curious about the "couple of" or "several" witnesses who saw POI (not to be confused with the male witness who saw the girls walking together and has been deemed very credible) and whether it was one vehicle with 2 people who reported seeing the POI, and whether it was 1 or 2 separate sightings. Sometimes I wonder if they were covering for others (like someone's son or sons, etc.). Just my opinion - I go back and forth on it.

Thoughts?

[tigger3z]

I agree i still think the killer/killers is someone from that area. They got very close to the girl's . There are no bruises to show the girls were abused in a psychic way. No evidence they tried to run, fell etc. They didn't use their cell phones they didn't run ... they were shot close up and in an excution sort of way --sending a message to others. It leads me to believe they knew their killer/killers and thery were sending a message to perhaps the fmaily or community??

[FlowerChild]

I agree i still think the killer/killers is someone from that area. They got very close to the girl's . There are no bruises to show the girls were abused in a psychic way. No evidence they tried to run, fell etc. They didn't use their cell phones they didn't run ... they were shot close up and in an excution sort of way --sending a message to others. It leads me to believe they knew their killer/killers and thery were sending a message to perhaps the fmaily or community??
It does seem there was SOME reason the girls didn't run...or even avoid the killer(s) - perhaps they knew the killer(s) OR the killer(s) knew them....ie: called them by name or took Taylor's dog as "bait". The killer got very close and the girls didn't run - they were shot where they stood - fast. The killer(s) had to have been "ready" to shoot when he saw the girls...it sure seems to me the killer(s) came up on the girls already with the intent to kill them - they had no time to even turn their backs on the killer(s) when approached - and they were dropped fast - this killer wasn't fooling around, he wanted these two girls dead (with no chance they survived) and he wanted them dead fast and quiet. If the accounts by witnesses of the shots are correct the killer(s) didn't waste a second - no hesitation, no running or escaping victims, no question as to the event being 100% deadly. And then - the killer(s) left - by all accounts raising no alarm in people passed on the way - not speeding, not acting suspicious, not doing a single thing to call attention. That's HARDCORE - kill two girls in cold blood, leave the casings where they fell, and just shake it off like it was nothing and then disappear. And this was an ugly ugly scene - I don't think this was "kids" unless there is a budding sociopath in the area with access to two guns on a summer Sunday afternoon.


It's odd, it was an up close and "personal" killing, but carried out in an impersonal, cold, calculated manner. I think that's why we are all so confused and having a hard time settling on a motive - it's both personal, in that the killer(s) must have been standing face to face with the girls and not more than a few feet away, and yet the shooting was so efficient and so deadly and so fast. There wasn't a bit of hesitation - and it was done in a place which was almost "public" - the killer(s) sure didn't make it possible to "linger" with the victims. Like I said - impersonal and yet very personal. That's why I cannot believe there was more than one shooter - a killer with this level of disassociation and calm efficiency when executing children is not (logically) a novice to this type of scenario.

Sociopaths or experienced assassins would not normally appear in rural Weleetka in PAIRS would they?

My Opinion

[SeriouslySearching]

I am not surprised it has now turned into a race issue.

What do they expect LE to do? If the POI happens to be black, American Indian or some other minority, they can't put the sketch out depicting their possible race for fear they would be called racist?

A witness or POI is what they are. If they are white,black, blue or green then the composite should depict that.

I also saw another sketch done by this artist and it was of a black man, did they cry racist when that one was put out? When they found this murderer and arrested him ......well.......yes he was a black man.

OSBI must go by what the witnesses tell them. To not do so would be a derelict of duties. They are not there to be PC but to try and solve crimes including all races.

Just because Susan Smith and a few other murderers put out false composites doesn't mean this person did who is not even a family member or connected to this case per Brown. I highly doubt that the person who gave the composite is the killer like the Susan Smiths of the world since several others also stated they saw this same man that day on that road.

It strange though we never seem to hear this rift when we see composite saying the POI is white.I totally agree. I don't see how the "race card" even fits here. The artist was simply doing the job. I think the sketch is remarkable and one of the very best I have seen across the country. If all of the sketch artists could do such a great rendering...it might make bringing them in a lot easier! The one I saw from this particular artist on another case was spot on (except the guy was younger).

[SeriouslySearching]

I am going back to my original theory that the killer/killers did not know the girls and there was no specific motive other than to shut them up for some reason. They heard or saw something they should not have.

[kahskye]

I am going back to my original theory that the killer/killers did not know the girls and there was no specific motive other than to shut them up for some reason. They heard or saw something they should not have.

You might be right. The killer(s) might be nothing more than hit men who were paid to quiet them and send a message that maybe the family doesn't want to make public for fear of their own lives.

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't see that scenario. I don't think the killer/killers had any attachment to the girls or had a vendetta of any kind. I think they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't see that scenario. I don't think the killer/killers had any attachment to the girls or had a vendetta of any kind. I think they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't either and that is why I think Peter Placker wants to know who and why someone could do such a thing.

IMO, it obvious he doesn't have a clue why these two young girls were killed and it eats at him everyday trying to make sense of it because it is such a senseless crime.


I also agree. The killer or killers had no attachment to these children. He/they were cold and methodical without emotion. I think it was a crime of opportunity by someone with a evil twisted mind. One they may have been scouting out to find that day.

I also don't agree with Mark Furhman that the killers had military training. Many in that area are avid hunters and are taught to make head and chest shots when bringing down large game, such as a deer.


imoo

[GetSmart]

FC
It's odd, it was an up close and "personal" killing, but carried out in an impersonal, cold, calculated manner. I think that's why we are all so confused and having a hard time settling on a motive - it's both personal, in that the killer(s) must have been standing face to face with the girls and not more than a few feet away, and yet the shooting was so efficient and so deadly and so fast. There wasn't a bit of hesitation - and it was done in a place which was almost "public" - the killer(s) sure didn't make it possible to "linger" with the victims. Like I said - impersonal and yet very personal. That's why I cannot believe there was more than one shooter - a killer with this level of disassociation and calm efficiency when executing children is not (logically) a novice to this type of scenario.

Sociopaths or experienced assassins would not normally appear in rural Weleetka in PAIRS would they?

My Opinion

I agree with what FlowerChild says. It is the only thing in my mind that makes sense...... Not that anything really does but this does fit.
But we are not psychos here (I hope not) so how do we really know how these folks think & rationlize

[SeriouslySearching]

While Mark might have a point, I don't see the military or LE background either. You are right about hunters tho.

[oceanblueeyes]

FC
It's odd, it was an up close and "personal" killing, but carried out in an impersonal, cold, calculated manner. I think that's why we are all so confused and having a hard time settling on a motive - it's both personal, in that the killer(s) must have been standing face to face with the girls and not more than a few feet away, and yet the shooting was so efficient and so deadly and so fast. There wasn't a bit of hesitation - and it was done in a place which was almost "public" - the killer(s) sure didn't make it possible to "linger" with the victims. Like I said - impersonal and yet very personal. That's why I cannot believe there was more than one shooter - a killer with this level of disassociation and calm efficiency when executing children is not (logically) a novice to this type of scenario.

Sociopaths or experienced assassins would not normally appear in rural Weleetka in PAIRS would they?

My Opinion

I agree with what FlowerChild says. It is the only thing in my mind that makes sense...... Not that anything really does but this does fit.
But we are not psychos here (I hope not) so how do we really know how these folks think & rationalize



Didn't Henry Lucas and Peter Toole hang together for a long time doing their evil muderous deeds?

I don't exclude two misfits being together anymore than I would one lone misfit psychopath.

imoo

[evelyn24]

I don't either and that is why I think Peter Placker wants to know who and why someone could do such a thing.

IMO, it obvious he doesn't have a clue why these two young girls were killed and it eats at him everyday trying to make sense of it because it is such a senseless crime.


I also agree. The killer or killers had no attachment to these children. He/they were cold and methodical without emotion. I think it was a crime of opportunity by someone with a evil twisted mind. One they may have been scouting out to find that day.

I also don't agree with Mark Furhman that the killers had military training. Many in that area are avid hunters and are taught to make head and chest shots when bringing down large game, such as a deer.


imoo

As usual, I agree with everything you post.
Mark Furhman is off on this one.
I'm not saying that one of the unsubs (if there were two) doesn't have military experience, because a lot of men in country or rural areas do serve, but the POI in the sketch? Nah..I doubt he was ever in the military, because American Indians do not have a high enlistment rate. Latinos/hispanics do, but not AI.
As you mentioned, people in the area are used to guns and killing dear etc.
Also Ocean, don't you think the fact the girls were not hidden or taken to be desposed of somewhere that would take a few days to find them, shows the killer doesn't have a personal connection to them?
The POI had to know they would be found minutes after he left because the road was pretty well traveled.
It's like he knew they couldn't/wouldn't immediately be connected to him.

[DeltaDawn]

I agree that they are obligated to go by what the witnesses tell them unless they have evidence that proves otherwise.

I'm still curious about the "couple of" or "several" witnesses who saw POI (not to be confused with the male witness who saw the girls walking together and has been deemed very credible) and whether it was one vehicle with 2 people who reported seeing the POI, and whether it was 1 or 2 separate sightings. Sometimes I wonder if they were covering for others (like someone's son or sons, etc.). Just my opinion - I go back and forth on it.

Thoughts?

I tend to think that there was more then 1 witness, in two or more separate cars that saw him. The reason being that when you go back and reread the different articles, some state the POI was standing outside the truck and some say sitting. Then you have the side view of him as well as the full frontal view, both drawn by the sketch artist. This leads me to believe that more then 1 witness, at different times, driving past the truck saw him, when he was in different positions.

It also makes me think he was a look out of sorts who was waiting on someone to come out of the woods. I fully believe the girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time and saw something, or the perps thought they did, that shouldn't have been seen.

[Annie]

Didn't Henry Lucas and Peter Toole hang together for a long time doing their evil muderous deeds?

I don't exclude two misfits being together anymore than I would one lone misfit psychopath.

imoo

There are plenty of cases where two or more have hung together in crime. I immediately thought of Leopold and Loeb, the Manson Gang, Bonnie and Clyde, Malvo and Muhammed, Kenneth Bianchi and Angelo Buono, and namerous cases where groups of teenagers have joined together to kill individuals or families. It isn't unusual to have two misfits working together in evil.

[Albert18]

Are we even sure the POI exists?

Compare this case to the murder of Eve Carson at the University of North Carolina. That was a nasty crime but as the investigation developed I do not remember one odd occurance in the case. The killing was unbelievable but everything made sense.

Too much doesn't make sense in this case. So something must not be accurate.

This crime made sense to somebody.

[DeltaDawn]

I think that the POI is still in the general area and I think the truck is too. However I don't think the POI owns the truck, I think the others involved, who were not seen by the witnesses, they are the truck owners. So looking for the POI and the truck together will not turn up anything. Without the tag numbers on the truck that is like a needle in a haystack.

[kahskye]

Are we even sure the POI exists?

Compare this case to the murder of Eve Carson at the University of North Carolina. That was a nasty crime but as the investigation developed I do not remember one odd occurance in the case. The killing was unbelievable but everything made sense.

Too much doesn't make sense in this case. So something must not be accurate.

This crime made sense to somebody.

I don't know what to believe anymore. One minute I think drugs, the next I think they threatened someone. They didn't run for a reason and I think they were so scared, they froze. I'm wondering if this POI was created to throw LE off.

[DeltaDawn]

LE seems very sure this person of interest exisits. They have stated they have more then 1, several, very credible witnesses who saw him on the road that day.

[GetSmart]

Ok I am posting several snips of media.. Lets re-read some of these & expand on our ideas...maybe it is what the are NOT sying.. Just an idea.

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation has been called in for help in the case. Choate said authorities combed County Line Road for evidence Sunday and again on Monday.

The sheriff said some clues have been found and that his office has come up with possible suspects. He would not elaborate on any evidence found, nor would he say how many suspects are involved.

Choate said authorities still are trying to determine if the girls were killed by someone driving a car along the road "or whether someone just walked out of the woods and shot them."

"We're not eliminating anything at this point," he said, as the OSBI and his deputies continued their search for more clues or possible witnesses
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080610_12_A1_hThetw874180 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080610_12_A1_hThetw874180 )

---------
Witness Emerges In Case
Investigators look into a witness account that he saw the girls moments before their deaths. A state agent said a witness came forward and reported seeing the girls near the scene where they were shot to death on Sunday.
Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation lead agent Ben Rosser said they tested the witness' story and believe him to be credible. During a Thursday news conference, Rosser said that the witness offered no names of people he might have seen in the area.
Rosser added that he would rather not say whether the witness offered descriptions of people in the area.
http://www.koco.com/news/16589907/detail.html (http://www.koco.com/news/16589907/detail.html)

Asked if the witness saw anyone or any vehicles nearby at the time he saw the girls walking on the road, Rosser declined comment.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_12_WELEE73577 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_12_WELEE73577)

Witnesses said the man was seen standing outside his truck on the county road where the girls were later found dead. Brown (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Jessica+Brown&CATEGORY=PERSON) said witnesses told investigators that truck was blocking the road around the time of the shooting and the man was standing outside the truck. About six witnesses have given the same account, Brown (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Jessica+Brown&CATEGORY=PERSON) said.
http://www.newsok.com/article/3256954/

[Albert18]

The info in those media accounts can't be accurate. And that is ODD.

If those media accounts are accurate then there was a traffic jam on that road.

Has there been any info released as to the possible year of the vehicle? Late model or older truck?

[GetSmart]

I do not understand. Are we not suppose to believe what the OSBI is saying? These are the only clues we get is from the media reports. BTW I took them all from what we have posted in our media link. i don't think all the witnesses were in cars.

[DeltaDawn]

The info in those media accounts can't be accurate. And that is ODD.

If those media accounts are accurate then there was a traffic jam on that road.

Has there been any info released as to the possible year of the vehicle? Late model or older truck?

Not too much more is available about the truck, just a white single cab truck with OK plate on the back. Which means the tailgate was up, otherwise they wouldn't have seen the plate.

Also the witnesses could be right and the accounts accurate. If he was waiting on someone who was in the woods to come out of the woods he may have sat there 20 minutes. The girls may have passed him on their way to the bridge and their way back..which was something I hadn't thought of before. This road was a road that was on a direct route, so many people did use this road.

[Ruflossn]

Hello Everyone~

This case has been looked at and profiled by a professional profiler. The profilers suggestions have been posted at the other forum. I will post what he / she has suggested:
(Please keep in mind that criminal profiling is not an exact science).

1.) The murderer is a mixture of organized and disorganized. (You can google both terms and learn more about what that exactly means)

2.) The murderer has a prior record with LE

3.) The murderers fingerprints will be in AFIX. If LE had finger prints we would know who had killed the girls.

4.) The motive for the killings will be sex.

I thought ya'll might find this perspective interesting.

[kahskye]

Witnesses said the man was seen standing outside his truck on the county road where the girls were later found dead. Brown (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Jessica+Brown&CATEGORY=PERSON) said witnesses told investigators that truck was blocking the road around the time of the shooting and the man was standing outside the truck. About six witnesses have given the same account, Brown (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Jessica+Brown&CATEGORY=PERSON) said.
http://www.newsok.com/article/3256954/

Doesn't it seem strange to anyone that there are six witnesses, yet not one has come forward in front of media. You know how people are and how so many want their 15 minutes of fame. Something doesn't sit right w/ me.

[GetSmart]

Hi Ruflossn What other forum??

[Busylady]

If this is a post from the topix forum, I am not sure we can really say its from a professional profiler. Certainly some ideas to consider though.

Hello Everyone~

This case has been looked at and profiled by a professional profiler. The profilers suggestions have been posted at the other forum. I will post what he / she has suggested:
(Please keep in mind that criminal profiling is not an exact science).

1.) The murderer is a mixture of organized and disorganized. (You can google both terms and learn more about what that exactly means)

2.) The murderer has a prior record with LE

3.) The murderers fingerprints will be in AFIX. If LE had finger prints we would know who had killed the girls.

4.) The motive for the killings will be sex.

I thought ya'll might find this perspective interesting.

[Ruflossn]

Hi Ruflossn What other forum??

Hello Get Smart~

I did not think we could post links to other forums? Is that allowed on Websleuths?

[Ruflossn]

If this is a post from the topix forum, I am not sure we can really say its from a professional profiler. Certainly some ideas to consider though.

Hi~
yes, it is from the Topix forum. The poster goes by the name of Sam the Super Cop. After doing research an a lot of what he has written, I personally believe that he is legit. (Please know that this is just my opinion). You can weave through the exhausting thread or I can put the page #'s on here for you to look at on your own. Because of the great respect I have for this forum,
I made notes and did my own reading before, I posted anything on Websleuths.

[SeriouslySearching]

It doesn't seem strange to me that the witnesses haven't come out to the media. They most likely realize until this man is found, they could also be at risk. I am sure that LE has conveyed that to them.

I have NO doubt the POI does exist. OSBI would not put the sketch out there unless they felt certain of it. When you have that many people giving the same description...it means it should be fairly accurate.

[Busylady]

The problem I am having with six witnesses means to me that the road was darn busy for six different people to see him in say a 30-45 minute time period yet when the girls were shot no one was on the road? No one went by and discovered the girls for the 10 or 15 mins they layed there (if we go with the girls were deceased already when the grandfather tried to contact them around 5:10 or so). Im just having a hard time understanding how the road could be that busy that six different people saw this man and 1 saw the girls in such a short period of time and then the road is completely empty after that.

Doesn't it seem strange to anyone that there are six witnesses, yet not one has come forward in front of media. You know how people are and how so many want their 15 minutes of fame. Something doesn't sit right w/ me.

[Ruflossn]

It doesn't seem strange to me that the witnesses haven't come out to the media. They most likely realize until this man is found, they could also be at risk. I am sure that LE has conveyed that to them.

SS~
I totally agree with you. Either LE knows who the POI is and is concerned for the witnesses safety or, they have no idea who the POI is and are concerned for the witnesses safety. LOL! Either way, if I was a witness I would stay mum until the POI has been cleared as a threat by the police.

JMO

[Busylady]

Thank you. I have read the forum and have read Sam the Super Cops post from the beginning and thats how I knew it came from topix.

Hi~
yes, it is from the Topix forum. The poster goes by the name of Sam the Super Cop. After doing research an a lot of what he has written, I personally believe that he is legit. (Please know that this is just my opinion). You can weave through the exhausting thread or I can put the page #'s on here for you to look at on your own. Because of the great respect I have for this forum,
I made notes and did my own reading before, I posted anything on Websleuths.

[oceanblueeyes]

It doesn't seem strange to me that the witnesses haven't come out to the media. They most likely realize until this man is found, they could also be at risk. I am sure that LE has conveyed that to them.

Most of the time LE urges witnesses to not speak publicly unless it is family members who are appealing to the public for help in catching the perps and even they are cautioned to not reveal any information they may know about the crime, itself.

I was rather taken aback that Ms. KeLough ? spoke out about the gunshots she said she heard.

[Ruflossn]

The problem I am having with six witnesses means to me that the road was darn busy for six different people to see him in say a 30-45 minute time period yet when the girls were shot no one was on the road? No one went by and discovered the girls for the 10 or 15 mins they layed there (if we go with the girls were deceased already when the grandfather tried to contact them around 5:10 or so). Im just having a hard time understanding how the road could be that busy that six different people saw this man and 1 saw the girls in such a short period of time and then the road is completely empty after that.

I have thought that perhaps there was one or two vehicles that drove down the road and that the 6 witnesses were in those one or two vehicles. Perhaps 3 ATV's with 2 people each, one pick up with people and a car with 3 people etc.......... I have never thought that there were 6 vehicles that passed over the road.

[kahskye]

I have thought that perhaps there was one or two vehicles that drove down the road and that the 6 witnesses were in those one or two vehicles. Perhaps 3 ATV's with 2 people each, one pick up with people and a car with 3 people etc.......... I have never thought that there were 6 vehicles that passed over the road.

That's a good point.

[Busylady]

Thats very possible, I just took it as six different instances with the way the number of witness was reported made them seem like different occurrences rather than a few together in the same vehicle since the number kept growing. Would make more sense if some fo the witnesses were actually together.

I have thought that perhaps there was one or two vehicles that drove down the road and that the 6 witnesses were in those one or two vehicles. Perhaps 3 ATV's with 2 people each, one pick up with people and a car with 3 people etc.......... I have never thought that there were 6 vehicles that passed over the road.

[Trino]

As usual, I agree with everything you post.
Mark Furhman is off on this one.
I'm not saying that one of the unsubs (if there were two) doesn't have military experience, because a lot of men in country or rural areas do serve, but the POI in the sketch? Nah..I doubt he was ever in the military, because American Indians do not have a high enlistment rate. Latinos/hispanics do, but not AI.

If I correctly recall, the description was MIXED NA.

[Albert18]

Any time LE puts out a vehicle description they age the vehicle. Late model, older model, etc.

So is OSBI incompetent or did none of the witnesses notice how old the vehicle is?

[Albert18]

I believe Sam the Super Cop profiled the intruder killing JonBenet. Maybe the Ramsey intruder killed the girls, that's why he can't be found.

[SeriouslySearching]

If I correctly recall, the description was MIXED NA.This is true. NA/European descent, I believe was the term used.

[SailorMoon]

Wow. I don't know whether to laugh or be speechless. ((let me say of course I don't find any murder funny)). It's as likely as anything.


I believe Sam the Super Cop profiled the intruder killing JonBenet. Maybe the Ramsey intruder killed the girls, that's why he can't be found.

[kahskye]

Thats very possible, I just took it as six different instances with the way the number of witness was reported made them seem like different occurrences rather than a few together in the same vehicle since the number kept growing. Would make more sense if some fo the witnesses were actually together.

Yeah, maybe the 5 boys in the pick up truck one vehicle and then just one other that passed by which would make 6.

[evelyn24]

If I correctly recall, the description was MIXED NA.

That's true, but the sketch looks ethnic to me so I just assume the POI strongly favored an american indian, and would probably identify more with that culture.

[oceanblueeyes]

Thats very possible, I just took it as six different instances with the way the number of witness was reported made them seem like different occurrences rather than a few together in the same vehicle since the number kept growing. Would make more sense if some fo the witnesses were actually together.

Some may have been together but the way Brown talked in a period of time several witnesses had come forward. I tend to think they were not so much in groups as she made it sound like it was at different times that they came forward.

imoo

[FlowerChild]

I have been researching the OSBI sketch artist Harvey Pratt. He is an experienced investigator, LE Officer, and a retired Asst Director of the OSBI as well as an artist so he does know how to question a witness to determine if they are being truthful or just "making things up". Harvey has worked on many NATIONAL cases, does all sorts of very difficult projects that challenge most sketch artists and also creates forensic reconstructions from skulls. He is a well known Native American Artist and honored Elder in his Tribe. He designed the OSBI Seal as well as their patches and badges.

There are several examples of many major cases solved from his eerily accurate sketches and missing persons ID'd from his forensic reconstructions on his web site and he is in demand as a speaker and educator on the subject - including how to conduct an eye witness interview. The FBI has consulted him and he has done work for them - including forensic reconstructions in the Green River Killer case.

I believe he is certain the POI in this case exists and that his sketch is accurate. Being Native American himself he would not make the POI NA, if he wasn't visibly NA - he would understand and illustrate any non NA traits that might confuse other artists - that the POI sketch done by Pratt is obviously NA in appearance means Pratt believes he is NA in appearance, if not ethnicity. Pratt is not someone who has no experience at this and would "fall for" a made up POI story. The OSBI seems confident as well that this person does exist and knows "something". I assume at this point that the case will hinge on locating the POI - and the sketch will be proven accurate....frightenly so.

Here is Harvey Pratt's Web Site - very very interesting.
http://www.harveypratt.com/index.php

My Opinion

[oceanblueeyes]

This is true. NA/European descent, I believe was the term used.

I believe that is the way Fox first reported it but I was under the impression when they released the composite at the PC they said an American Indian.

I know when they repeat the sketch view on either on line newspapers or on tv they do not add that the POI possibly NA/Caucasian. They repeat that he is an American Indian, apprx. age 35, 6 feet tall, with a slender build.

In the composite he does look NA to me.

imoo

[Busylady]

Thats the way I took it also, as they came forward at different times.

Some may have been together but the way Brown talked in a period of time several witnesses had come forward. I tend to think they were not so much in groups as she made it sound like it was at different times that they came forward.

imoo

[Annie]

I went to Flower Child's link and there is a page with some of his sketches and the actual photos of the people when they were identified. The first one is amazing, but I don't know if I could have identified at least one of them because he looks so much heavier in the sketch.

http://www.harveypratt.com/composite_imagery.php

[Littledeer]

I was thinking today at work, if we could get an aerial map of the area where the Plackers lived, would it be able to show any paths?? Maybe the girls were in the woods on a path and saw something?

Then started running and the POI and/or killers got into the truck and slowly drove down the road figuring they would have to come out at some point to get home??

I realize LE has said they found prints indicating that the girls had made it to the bridge and were coming back, but like another poster mentioned, those could have been from the day before. (Wouldn't prints stay on the road if there had been no rain)??

Thoughts??

[cloudajo]

· IIRC, Brown said during a press conference there were no more than ½ dozen witnesses combined.
· We know of 1 male who saw the girls walking together before the shots were heard (described as very credible)
· We know of 2 who heard the shots (Kelough and her son)
· The sketch was released Fri, June 13th and the OSBI said several people revealed during interviews in the last few days they saw this POI.
· In the interview with Pratt, the reporter says “Days after the murders, Pratt sat down with several witnesses. In less than two hours, he sketched the only man so far singled out.”

[Littledeer]

cloudajo:

If I am not mistaken, the sketch released on June 13th, was an UPDATED one??

I believe the first one was released on June 11th.

[Littledeer]

Let me say that there was some confusion on that. I don't have it at my fingertips right now....and don't have much time to search. Just checking in from work for any news. :)

[GetSmart]

Authorities, working on tips, have so far interviewed about 50 people in connection with the murders, and Rosser said, "We're still checking their alibis." "Reward is offered as agencies join hunt" (article name)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080611_12_A1_Rwrsof551521

This is alot of people

[Albert18]

Could it be LE is being told by witnesses they saw one vehicle and one man. No other vehicle traffic was seen during the timeframe they are concerned with.

Looking at the crime scene, LE thinks the crime involved at least two people. But they can't get two people to the crime scene.

Could this be why they keep going back and canvassing the area and why they brought in the dog.

[oceanblueeyes]

Authorities, working on tips, have so far interviewed about 50 people in connection with the murders, and Rosser said, "We're still checking their alibis." "Reward is offered as agencies join hunt" (article name)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080611_12_A1_Rwrsof551521

This is alot of people

And that article was done on the 11th, wasnt it?

Brown stated later they had done hundreds of interviews.

imoo

[GetSmart]

So with all the interviews & albi checking that should mean yes families & sex offenders have been checked out.
jmo

[oceanblueeyes]

So with all the interviews & albi checking ythat should mean yes families & sex offenders have been checked out.
jmo


I think that has long been done now. I think those were the first they crossed off and then have gone onto others now.

imoo

[Claycat]

Actually, I think I read that only a couple of the witnesses actually saw the POI. The others either saw the girls or heard the shots.

[GetSmart]

Does anyone know if any highlights of this case is going to be on TV?

[Trino]

Actually, I think I read that only a couple of the witnesses actually saw the POI. The others either saw the girls or heard the shots.

Thank you for clarification. I, too, read this. There were not 6 actual witnesses to the POI.

[oceanblueeyes]

Actually, I think I read that only a couple of the witnesses actually saw the POI. The others either saw the girls or heard the shots.

I thought Brown said several witnesses have come forward saying they saw this man.

[Tom'sGirl]

I asked a question over here http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2335275&postcount=12 and so far no one has answered......anyone?

[GetSmart]

I must of miss that post TG I'll look around & see what I can find maybe on the family thread

[evelyn24]

The sketch artist told the reporter interviewing him that he sat down with several witnesses to come up with the composite.
Put it this way, if two or three independent witnesses saw the same guy and truck, that's a good solid lead, and very credible.

[oceanblueeyes]

The sketch artist told the reporter interviewing him that he sat down with several witnesses to come up with the composite.
Put it this way, if two or three independent witnesses saw the same guy and truck, that's a good solid lead, and very credible.

Absolutely and this is why I think the POI is the KEY to this case. No other witness puts anyone else acting suspiciously on that road shortly around the time the crime happened.

OSBI have got plenty of witnesses that saw/heard plenty of things ...this is what convinces me this guy is much more than a possible witness or a POI.

imoo

[GetSmart]

Did anyone just see the last clip Of AMW. All I heard was something about a death of a 10 yr old boy's death & a pic of a guy that kinda like the POI.

[SeriouslySearching]

I asked a question over here http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2335275&postcount=12 and so far no one has answered......anyone?I missed it! I thought somewhere it mentioned him by name, but I could be mistaken. It must be one of the few members of the family without a record. I remember making the comment it could be Taylor's Bio-father earlier tho.

[SeriouslySearching]

Absolutely and this is why I think the POI is the KEY to this case. No other witness puts anyone else acting suspiciously on that road shortly around the time the crime happened.

OSBI have got plenty of witnesses that saw/heard plenty of things ...this is what convinces me this guy is much more than a possible witness or a POI.

imooThe way they responded in full force to the bogus burglary call from the girl...it is obvious he is MUCH more.

[SeriouslySearching]

Did anyone just see the last clip Of AMW. All I heard was something about a death of a 10 yr old boy's death & a pic of a guy that kinda like the POI.No, I missed that, too. Would it be on AMW's website tho?

[oceanblueeyes]

I missed it! I thought somewhere it mentioned him by name, but I could be mistaken. It must be one of the few members of the family without a record. I remember making the comment it could be Taylor's Bio-father earlier tho.

Since Pete Placker stated on Greta's the other night that Taylor knew who her mother was but he and Vicky have always been known as her mom and daddy, I think their daughter is the bio mother of Taylor.

She is probably known as the older sister of Taylor.

So the guy that we saw at Taylor's funeral would be known as Taylor's older brother.

imoo

[GetSmart]

I found him on website I guess he is too short

[Tom'sGirl]

I missed it! I thought somewhere it mentioned him by name, but I could be mistaken. It must be one of the few members of the family without a record. I remember making the comment it could be Taylor's Bio-father earlier tho.
He looks fairly young
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10rjmvp&s=3

[Tom'sGirl]

I found him on website I guess he is too short
Don't understand this post???

[Claycat]

Is that Christopher Placker?

[Tom'sGirl]

Since Pete Placker stated on Greta's the other night that Taylor knew who her mother was but he and Vicky have always been known as her mom and daddy, I think their daughter is the bio mother of Taylor.

She is probably known as the older sister of Taylor.

So the guy that we saw at Taylor's funeral would be known as Taylor's older brother.

imoo
Somehow I don't think it's Linda

[Claycat]

Christopher Placker?

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=282586&offender_book_id=172202

[Busylady]

I thought it was a picture of Christopher Placker

He looks fairly young
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10rjmvp&s=3

[oceanblueeyes]

Somehow I don't think it's Linda

Why?

Isn't she the one that had all the wonderful things to say about Taylor on her myspace page?

[Tom'sGirl]

I thought it was a picture of Christopher Placker
Okies.........thanks Busy and ClayCat!

[GetSmart]

I'm sorry, My mind was faster than my fingers.. I was looking at a pic on AMW

[Tom'sGirl]

Why?

Isn't she the one that had all the wonderful things to say about Taylor on her myspace page?
Yes, that's her ocean.

[Busylady]

The only problem I have with Linda being the mom is the Paschal name added to Taylors name. If Linda was the mom it doesnt make sense to add the Paschal name in my opinion.

Why?

Isn't she the one that had all the wonderful things to say about Taylor on her myspace page?

[Tom'sGirl]

The only problem I have with Linda being the mom is the Paschal name added to Taylors name. If Linda was the mom it doesnt make sense to add the Paschal name in my opinion.
Exactly Busy which made me think of the connection to
PASCHAL, JENNIFER JUANITA (Age 32)

[oceanblueeyes]

The only problem I have with Linda being the mom is the Paschal name added to Taylors name. If Linda was the mom it doesn't make sense to add the Paschal name in my opinion.

I really don't know. Maybe they did it because it is both Vicky and Peter's last names.

He sure seemed to indicate that Taylor knew who her mother is.....never mentioned her father and I would have expected if it was their son's child he would have reversed it and said "Taylor knows who her father is but we have........"

But that is just how I see it.

I do think Linda was her mother.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Exactly Busy which made me think of the connection to
PASCHAL, JENNIFER JUANITA (Age 32)


Who is Jennifer?

[Tom'sGirl]

Who is Jennifer?
Her name is connected to Uncle Tony Paschal and to Vicky Placker.

[oceanblueeyes]

Her name is connected to Uncle Tony Paschal and to Vicky Placker.

I am confused. So who's daughter is she?

How is she connected.

Was Vicky married to a Paschal before becoming a Placker?

Sorry I haven't paid close attention to the family dynamics.

imoo

[Busylady]

I agree she is the one I am leaning towards also as the mother.

Exactly Busy which made me think of the connection to
PASCHAL, JENNIFER JUANITA (Age 32)

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree she is the one I am leaning towards also as the mother.


LOL Someone help me out here please.

Is she a child of Vicky Placker?

imoo

[SeriouslySearching]

He looks fairly young
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10rjmvp&s=3He looks to me to be mid 20s.

[Busylady]

Jennifer Paschal is listed in Taylors obit as Taylors sister. I believe Vicky had two children before she married Peter Placker. Jennifer Paschal and Jessie Paschal.

[Tom'sGirl]

jennifer paschal is listed in taylors obit as taylors sister. I believe vicky had two children before she married peter placker. Jennifer paschal and jessie paschal.
bingo!

[oceanblueeyes]

Jennifer Paschal is listed in Taylors obit as Taylors sister. I believe Vicky had two children before she married Peter Placker. Jennifer Paschal and Jessie Paschal.

Oohhhh! Now I see.:crazy: I knew whomever the mother is had to be a child of either Pete or Vicky's.

Thanks.

imoo

[GetSmart]

http://i29.tinypic.com/2yvv1qd.jpghttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i30.tinypic.com/2ic8zh3.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

This is the pic I was looking at on AMW

[SeriouslySearching]

Maybe the reporter that Kahskye has been conversing with would know more about Taylor's bio parents or would be able to track it down. I wonder if he knows about both of the family histories in this case, too?

Why does it have to be a daughter that had Taylor? Couldn't it have been the son?

[SeriouslySearching]

He doesn't look NA to me. Torres is decidedly Hispanic.

[GetSmart]

I decided that also. But just in case somebody wanted to know what I was talking about.

[SeriouslySearching]

I wonder what his profile looks like.

[GetSmart]

Staff WriterEDMOND — Thermal imaging equipment on an Oklahoma City police helicopter helped Edmond police catch a man during an early morning chase Wednesday. The device detected the man hiding in a tree
http://newsok.com/article/keyword/3262053/

I wonder if anything like this was used out there, if they even have a doubt someone is in the woods by the 18 yr old?

[oceanblueeyes]

Maybe the reporter that Kahskye has been conversing with would know more about Taylor's bio parents or would be able to track it down. I wonder if he knows about both of the family histories in this case, too?

Why does it have to be a daughter that had Taylor? Couldn't it have been the son?

I just don't think so. To me Pete would have said Taylor knows who her father is but..we have..

But he didn't. He specifically said she knew who her mother was but we....

If Linda is the mother she would have been about 14 when she had Taylor, right?

And if Jennifer is the mother she would have been about 19? I can see a very young girl getting pregnant and her parents having to raise the child.

But would someone who was already 19 give the child to her parents to raise as their own child?

It just seems like the younger daughter would not be able to take care of the child. At that age she wouldn't even be able to get a menial job.

imoo

[Tom'sGirl]

I just don't think so. To me Pete would have said Taylor knows who her father is but..we have..

But he didn't. He specifically said she knew who her mother was but we....

If Linda is the mother she would have been about 14 when she had Taylor, right?

And if Jennifer is the mother she would have been about 19? I can see a very young girl getting pregnant and her parents having to raise the child.

But would someone who was already 19 give the child to her parents to raise as their own child?

It just seems like the younger daughter would not be able to take care of the child. At that age she wouldn't even be able to get a menial job.

imoo
Sometimes age has nothing to do with it ocean, there MAY have been other reasons.

[GetSmart]

TG "Sometimes age has nothing to do with it ocean, there MAY have been other reasons. "

She could have been in jail when baby was born.

[oceanblueeyes]

Sometimes age has nothing to do with it ocean, there MAY have been other reasons.

I wonder how we can find out for sure? Not that I think it has one thing to do with this crime though.

imoo

[SeriouslySearching]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was used during that search after her report. (The thermal imaging)

[oceanblueeyes]

TG "Sometimes age has nothing to do with it ocean, there MAY have been other reasons. "

She could have been in jail when baby was born.

Oh does she have a prison record?

When was that and what was she in jail for?

Like I said I havent read all the links to the public records on these families so sorry for all the questions.

imoo

[Tom'sGirl]

TG "Sometimes age has nothing to do with it ocean, there MAY have been other reasons. "

She could have been in jail when baby was born.
I can think of a few things just from those I've known, or do know. One is that the mother was not fit due to drugs, lifestyle or abuse to the child.

I've never heard or read where the Plackers are referred to as adoptive parents, but I have seen where Mr. Placker was referred to a Legal Guardian.

[SeriouslySearching]

The child must have had a birth certificate. A good reporter would go find it. :)

[oceanblueeyes]

I can think of a few things just from those I've known, or do know. One is that the mother was not fit due to drugs, lifestyle or abuse to the child.

I've never heard or read where the Plackers are referred to as adoptive parents, but I have seen where Mr. Placker was referred to a Legal Guardian.

Someone over at InSessions mentioned they read the comments on Linda's myspace page and a person said to her something like this "I am so sorry for your loss, I know she was your everything." (paraphrasing)

I thought that was interesting.

[Tom'sGirl]

Someone over at InSessions mentioned they read the comments on Linda's myspace page and a person said to her something like this "I am so sorry for your loss, I know she was your everything." (paraphrasing)

I thought that was interesting.
What the actual post said was

Jun 11 2008 3:54 PM

I am so so sorry for your lost. I know she was the joy in your heart even though I never met her. May peace come to her and your family. Keep ur chin up justice will come.

[kahskye]

Maybe the reporter that Kahskye has been conversing with would know more about Taylor's bio parents or would be able to track it down. I wonder if he knows about both of the family histories in this case, too?

Why does it have to be a daughter that had Taylor? Couldn't it have been the son?

I can try emailing him Monday and asking him. Also, about Taylor being homeschooled, does anyone know the education level the grandma had?

[Tom'sGirl]

I can try emailing him Monday and asking him. Also, about Taylor being homeschooled, does anyone know the education level the grandma had?
I have no idea, but in most States it doesn't matter what level of Education the parents have when a child is on Independent Study and doing their work at home.

BTW, do you live in Oklahoma?

[noZme]

I can try emailing him Monday and asking him. Also, about Taylor being homeschooled, does anyone know the education level the grandma had?

i think the terms "home-schooled" & "remote study or independent study" are being used interchangably, when in fact, they are not the same. apparently, remote study is quite common in sparsly populated areas, including ocmulgee & okfuskee counties in olkahoma.

[Tom'sGirl]

i think the terms "home-schooled" & "remote study or independent study" are being used interchangably, when in fact, they are not the same. apparently, remote study is quite common in sparsly populated areas, including ocmulgee & okfuskee counties in olkahoma.
IIRC I read somewhere that Taylor had been home schooled prior to moving to Weleetka. From that I gathered must be the reason she was only in the 6th grade at age 13.

[noZme]

TG
she had already celebrated this year's birthday in march ... that wouldn't put her off track to be 13 & going into 7th grade would it ? by all accounts she was an excellent student.

[txsvicki]

TG
she had already celebrated this year's birthday in march ... that wouldn't put her off track to be 13 & going into 7th grade would it ? by all accounts she was an excellent student.


Taylor was probably kept back one year since her birthday fell before the start of a school year. She was about the same age as my grandson in sixth grade who was kept back one year. I think she would have normally turned age 13 during the seventh grade instead of the sixth.

[FlowerChild]

Taylor was a year behind the "standard" enrollment - My BD is in Jan and I ended 7th grade 13, 8th 14, 9th 15, 10th 16, 11th 17, 12th 18
DH is in October and he was a year YOUNGER in each grade - he didn't turn 18 until he was a freshman in college (he ended 8th grade 13). The age cut off once was mid October, now I believe it's Sept 1st. Taylor would have entered 7th grade at 13 and finished 7th grade at age 14 - Taylor would have graduated from High School at age 19. Skyla had JUST turned 11 - and would have ended 6th grade barely age 12.

Lots of parents hold their kids back a year if they can, in Taylor's case it might have been partly the Homeschooling and partly that Peter and Vicky held her back on purpose. By all accounts Taylor was an excellent straight A student who LOVED school.

My Opinion

[docwho3]

I am still trying to decide if this is a case of local perps or someone from outside the area. Although I suppose it might be an outside person who was passng through or who was given directions to the area to visit, the last I heard this was a pretty remote little place and that fact argues for local perps more than outsiders. The exception would be a person who had lived there in the past but who had left the area for some time and then came back, perhaps to visit relatives or friends. Such a person might be both local & a stranger at the same time. If this was the case then we can only hope the perp/s bolted and fled so that their absence might eventually raise a red flag.

I am also trying to figure the age of the perp/s. Some things about this crime seem almost to be childish as if a couple kids had carried out the crime, but then I know so few details that it is quite possible there are many things that point to an adult age of the perps but that have not yet been released or that I have not read in the news accounts.

Was this a planned crime of some sort or an impulse crime?

[Ruflossn]

Was this a planned crime of some sort or an impulse crime?

docwho3,
I do not think that LE has released whether they believe this was a planned crime or a an impulse crime. That is part of the mystery of this tragedy. There seems to be no rhyme, reason or explanation for the murders of Taylor and Skyla.

[Patience]

http://i29.tinypic.com/2yvv1qd.jpghttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i30.tinypic.com/2ic8zh3.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

This is the pic I was looking at on AMW

Is that Badillo? Opinions here have discounted Badillo, but I have to tell you that I would not clear him yet.


http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/badillo_jg.htm

[Aleph]

I have a question for those who may have hunting and/or military experience. (I don't!)

The shot under the chin, as I understand was done to the girls in this case -- this strikes me as a technique that someone might be trained to do, in order to make sure that their victim won't survive. It certainly seems like it was applied "systematically" and purposefully in this case. It's one thing that sticks out to me.

Is this kind of shot just common practice in hunting or could this be a more specialized technique that one might learn in the military? Does it suggest a professional hit?

[Beyond Belief]

Was this shot at close range or at a distance?

[Annie]

Is that Badillo? Opinions here have discounted Badillo, but I have to tell you that I would not clear him yet.


http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/badillo_jg.htm

There is a sentence in there that he may be trying to disguise his appearance by growing his hair long. How long would it grow in three years?

[Patience]

I believe long enough to pull back into a ponytail. I am sure that the authorities have him on their list of person's of interest. I would not clear him anyway, based just on the sketch.

But then again, I wonder if the sketch is bogus, coming from sources that are not credible. I don't want to have tunnel vision so I want to consider all possibilities

[Trino]

I have a question for those who may have hunting and/or military experience. (I don't!)

The shot under the chin, as I understand was done to the girls in this case -- this strikes me as a technique that someone might be trained to do, in order to make sure that their victim won't survive. It certainly seems like it was applied "systematically" and purposefully in this case. It's one thing that sticks out to me.

Is this kind of shot just common practice in hunting or could this be a more specialized technique that one might learn in the military? Does it suggest a professional hit?

Again referencing Mark Furhman, shots to the chest first, then a shot to the head to insure the person does not survive. Furhman mentioned training as a possibility.

IMO it was a systematic killing for whatever reason.

[SeriouslySearching]

Was this shot at close range or at a distance?In order to put a shot under the chin and have it come out the top, one would have to be in very close range, imo. For them to be standing on a vehicle or at a distance, it would have made this shot almost impossible.

Don't underestimate someone else knowing the way to do an execution-style killing. While LE/military background would know...so do the gangbangers, drug dealers, and gun runners.

[SeriouslySearching]

I believe long enough to pull back into a ponytail. I am sure that the authorities have him on their list of person's of interest. I would not clear him anyway, based just on the sketch.

But then again, I wonder if the sketch is bogus, coming from sources that are not credible. I don't want to have tunnel vision so I want to consider all possibilitiesLE is not going to release a sketch that could be "bogus". They have repeatedly mentioned the witnesses are credible and I am sure they have checked out their stories, backgrounds, etc. There is corroborating evidence at the scene to back them up.

[SeriouslySearching]

Is that Badillo? Opinions here have discounted Badillo, but I have to tell you that I would not clear him yet.


http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/badillo_jg.htmThat isn't Badillo, that is Torres. He was on AMW last night in connection with a driveby shooting killing a 10 yo boy.

The witnesses would know the distinct differences of NA and Hispanic as Oklahoma's population has many of both. The sketch is definitely a NA male.

[SeriouslySearching]

Again referencing Mark Furhman, shots to the chest first, then a shot to the head to insure the person does not survive. Furhman mentioned training as a possibility.

IMO it was a systematic killing for whatever reason.I love Mark F., but I keep going back to what Skyla's grandmother remarked the shot to the head was first and then they unloaded on them after they were dead. I don't think she arrived at this conclusion alone and the family must know more than is being released to the media. (I am also certain that LE did not want her telling that on Greta either!)

The autopsy would reveal which shots were first and the position of the bodies when the subsequent shots were fired. OSBI's Jessica Brown said they know the trajectory. (By the way, this is where some people may have gotten off-track. Jessica did not insinuate the shots came from above at all...it was NG that once agained tossed in her two cents to arrive at that one.)

[cloudajo]

LE is not going to release a sketch that could be "bogus". They have repeatedly mentioned the witnesses are credible and I am sure they have checked out their stories, backgrounds, etc. There is corroborating evidence at the scene to back them up.

SS, what corroborating evidence is that?

IMOO, there is room for questioning the credibility of the witnesses who came forward about the POI. I believe the OSBI was obligated to release the sketch even if they themselves had some doubts about the witnesses who gave the description (not saying they did but it’s a possibility, see Brown’s comment below). I’ve only heard them say the male witness who saw the girls walking (alive) was “very credible.” I’ve never heard the OSBI specifically state that about the witnesses who saw the POI (but I could be mistaken). I’m still leaving it open as a possibility for now.
================
Officer Willingham made a general comment - he said officers go with the best information available. "It's up to the individual's perception," Willingham said. "We can't discount a witness because we're not sure if what they're saying is true."

Brown said the forensic artist who made the sketch has 30 years of experience. She said not releasing the sketch would have been criticized and that the man is not a suspect.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_11_A4_spancl9259 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_11_A4_spancl9259)

[oceanblueeyes]

SS, what corroborating evidence is that?

IMOO, there is room for questioning the credibility of the witnesses who came forward about the POI. I believe the OSBI was obligated to release the sketch even if they themselves had some doubts about the witnesses who gave the description (not saying they did but it’s a possibility, see Brown’s comment below). I’ve only heard them say the male witness who saw the girls walking (alive) was “very credible.” I’ve never heard the OSBI specifically state that about the witnesses who saw the POI (but I could be mistaken). I’m still leaving it open as a possibility for now.
================
Officer Willingham made a general comment - he said officers go with the best information available. "It's up to the individual's perception," Willingham said. "We can't discount a witness because we're not sure if what they're saying is true."

Brown said the forensic artist who made the sketch has 30 years of experience. She said not releasing the sketch would have been criticized and that the man is not a suspect.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_11_A4_spancl9259 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_11_A4_spancl9259)

It has been mentioned more than once that lie detector tests have been administered concerning this case. I truly think LE have a sixth sense on what is true and what is made up. I do believe this POI exists and was there the very day and time this happened.

Without him this case seems to be in limbo so imo he IS the link. In little over a week it will be a month since this crime happened and what are the police still missing? This man who cant be found and imo someone is hiding him out and whomever may have been with him at the time.

imoo

[Albert18]

The question would be has LE completely checked out the people who said they drove by the POI. Because if the POI isn't real then they are most likely the shooters or are involved somehow.

Tire tracks, u-turn, and boot prints could all belong to them.

What better way to cover a crime. You are local and you know people probably saw you driving in the area so you come forward, after a while, and say you drove by that area and you saw somebody there.

You give a generic part Indian, part white physical description and a generic white Chevy or Ford truck vehicle description.

Or.

The POI may actually be a real person but wasn't on that road that day. So even if somebody reports the guy, LE may have checked him out and discovered he wasn't in the area that day. They conclude he just resembles the POI. The POI lead has just become a dead end.

[oceanblueeyes]

The question would be has LE completely checked out the people who said they drove by the POI. Because if the POI isn't real then they are most likely the shooters or are involved somehow.

Tire tracks, u-turn, and boot prints could all belong to them.

What better way to cover a crime. You are local and you know people probably saw you driving in the area so you come forward, after a while, and say you drove by that area and you saw somebody there.

You give a generic part Indian, part white physical description and a generic white Chevy or Ford truck vehicle description.

Or.

The POI may actually be a real person but wasn't on that road that day. So even if somebody reports the guy, LE may have checked him out and discovered he wasn't in the area that day. They conclude he just resembles the POI. The POI lead has just become a dead end.


I don't think it is some vast conspiracy among the "murderers". I don't believe the police are that dumb if the witnesses that came in where connected to each other in any way.

It seems there are several witnesses and I think it highly unlikely that they are all lying.

The composite is not generic to me. It is one of the most detailed composites that I have seen lately. It shows me also that the other witnesses than the initial one thinks the sketch looks like the POI.

imoo

[FlowerChild]

Badillo seems too short - 5-6" to 5-9" and too heavy. He also looks distinctly Hispanic to me. The sketch artist is NA himself, I am sure he would have determined whether the POI was Hispanic rather than Native American. Badillo's hair appears rather wavy - like grown out it might get rather frizzy and "big" given the humidity in OK summers..if he had been growing his hair for the full 3 years since the last photo it might be shoulder length - certainly not to the small of his back. And it would appear "curly" - not a NA trait.

The sketch artist here becomes important - in his interviewing and his techniques. I think Pratt (the artist) would have quickly determined whether the POI was Hispanic rather than NA..and as someone said, people in OK certainly see plenty of both in their daily lives and can readily identify both correctly. The comparison between Badillo and the POI sketch does not (in my eyes) show any similarities that would lead me to ID the POI as Badillo. The length of the face, the nose and general bone structure, the height and weight do not match.

And I do believe that the OSBI has a "good sketch" - there is a reason they are not releasing how many people saw the POI or WHO they are to protect their witnesses and be able to use those witnesses in a line-up. If I had seen this guy I would be holed up in my house till he was in custody - if he is the killer (or one of them) he has no problem taking out anyone he feels is a threat...two young innocent girls are dead at his hand - a witness would be NOTHING.

I look at that sketch and feel it is so good that I imagine at least two or 3 unrelated witnesses were involved in the finished sketch - at least one of whom saw the POI primarily from the side and back. It is clear to me (since the sketch has gone nationwide) the OSBI believes it's a "real" likeness of the POI and that someone (or several someones) got a really good look at this guy. I just cannot see one (or even two) individuals getting such a detailed look at this guy driving by him that this sketch could be produced. I think he was seen by at least 3 or 4 witnesses at different times. This happened around 5 PM on Sunday - people were going home and heading to church - I think it's very possible several cars passed the man in a 10-15 minute window - and maybe NOT ALL at the murder scene.

My Opinion

[evelyn24]

Why would several independent witnesses make up the same person? I know it's frustrating that this poi hasn't been found or ID'ed yet, but that doesn't mean he's fabricated.

[GetSmart]

The POI could be anyone .. anywhere. Look at Couey right under their nose all that time and that is a small rural community.

[SeriouslySearching]

SS, what corroborating evidence is that?

The tire tracks, the boot print, the area itself producing the pile of shell casings, the fact he was seen at the crime seen acting "suspicious", etc. I think all of it together is corroborating evidence to what these witnesses have reported.

[DeltaDawn]

You know being that this was a small town, that means LE probably knows what everyone is into. I wonder if they have rounded up the usual suspects and had some chats with them? Someone in that area has to know something. And I do believe that more then 1 person is involved in the shootings, beside the POI. And I don't think the truck belonged to the POI, it belonged to one of the others ..so it seems like it wouldn't take too long to put two and two together.

[DeltaDawn]

Yes I agree the witnesses did see the POI and they saw him at different times..standing, sitting, full frontal view and side view. And they all thought he looked suspicious and they also didn't know who he was.

[FlowerChild]

The POI could be anyone .. anywhere. Look at Couey right under their nose all that time and that is a small rural community.
But no-one SAW Couey. No-one could link Couey to his crime outside his own cronies and family who were as tweaked out as he was. And he did live within a few hundred feet of his victim...in a trailer park with 100 other trailers - hardly isolated or hidden - and he was caught - pretty quickly too.

In this case we have outside witnesses to the POI and a sketch of him...as well as a description of his vehicle. While our POI could indeed be "anywhere" at this point, he is not invisible and cannot spend the rest of his life without a single contact in the "outside world". He may hide, but it can't last, eventually he will have to step out into a world where someone could make that connection between him and the sketch. I think there is far more to this case than we are privy to - and I think they are closer to solving it than we know. Like Couey, the person responsible for this horrific crime will eventually make a mis-step and be caught and held accountable for his actions - and we will have another resident for Oklahoma's Death Row.

I know it is frustrating and makes us ALL angry it is going so slowly - I suggest this might help all of us who have taken these girls into our hearts: Visualize the best possible outcome for all concerned and hold Taylor and Skyla in your mind as you do. Know that what you seek (the best outcome) will become reality. There is plenty of emotion and anger and pain running rampant in this case - we don't need THAT energy. What we need most now is positive energy (however you define that - prayer, meditation, white light) and a break in the case. I do believe it will come.

My Opinion

[GetSmart]

Good Point FC

[oceanblueeyes]

But no-one SAW Couey. No-one could link Couey to his crime outside his own cronies and family who were as tweaked out as he was. And he did live within a few hundred feet of his victim...in a trailer park with 100 other trailers - hardly isolated or hidden - and he was caught - pretty quickly too.

In this case we have outside witnesses to the POI and a sketch of him...as well as a description of his vehicle. While our POI could indeed be "anywhere" at this point, he is not invisible and cannot spend the rest of his life without a single contact in the "outside world". He may hide, but it can't last, eventually he will have to step out into a world where someone could make that connection between him and the sketch. I think there is far more to this case than we are privy to - and I think they are closer to solving it than we know. Like Couey, the person responsible for this horrific crime will eventually make a mis-step and be caught and held accountable for his actions - and we will have another resident for Oklahoma's Death Row.

I know it is frustrating and makes us ALL angry it is going so slowly - I suggest this might help all of us who have taken these girls into our hearts: Visualize the best possible outcome for all concerned and hold Taylor and Skyla in your mind as you do. Know that what you seek (the best outcome) will become reality. There is plenty of emotion and anger and pain running rampant in this case - we don't need THAT energy. What we need most now is positive energy (however you define that - prayer, meditation, white light) and a break in the case. I do believe it will come.

My Opinion

While I too try to remain optimistic in total support for these grieving family members I am not so sure he will be found quickly.

We have no idea where he is now. He very well could be anywhere and that place could be self sustaining for him where he would not have to venture out for anything or a need to do so. Really looking for a POI, who by all accounts was unknown in the area the crime was committed in, is like looking for a needle in a haystack of 300 million people. Even the OK tag could have been stolen.

I remember Agent Brown referred to "your group" as if compelling someone that is in the group that is hiding him out to come forward. However many times they will not rat out one of their own.

We have seen that happen in other cases where people knew who did the murder all along yet never told a soul until years later when they were no longer around them and didn't feel so fearful.

So I do hope and pray they are close to finding this man. Brown said she thinks finding this man will quickly resolve this case but now it is going on nearly a month and I certain hope they have more solid information to go on than what they have been saying in public. If not then the families must be very worried.

imoo

[FlowerChild]

We don't have to find the POI to solve this case. Just somebody (anybody) who knows something about the crime. If the POI wasn't alone in this, then there are OTHER PEOPLE who know ...any one of whom could blow this case wide open.

Would it be nice to find the POI today, sure, would it necessarily solve the case? Maybe not. I'll settle for some guilty little peon who knows something and can't live with the guilt. And if the POI is in hiding then there has to be at least one more person who is helping him - and they could have a fight tomorrow.

All it takes is ONE PERSON to blow this whole thing wide open, just ONE PERSON. I continue to focus on human nature - which almost invariably leads someone to spill his or her guts - either out of guilt or anger or self protection. The house of cards only needs ONE WEAK POINT to fall into a heap. And human nature almost guarantees that the longer we go, the more likely it is that the circle of those who "know" continues to grow and that one of those people will find it necessary to share what they know with LE.

The more time that passes, the safer the killer(s) feel and as that happens more people will come to know a small part of the "secret". With every day the better the chances that someone will get into a situation where they will reveal what they know. Criminals are hardly known for their high IQ - and there were mistakes made in this crime and the killer(s) will continue to make mistakes. They will trust the wrong person or lower their guard or do something stupid that will put them in jail for something else. Even the greatest crime organizations have been leveled by one tiny wrong move....and I don't believe we are dealing with anything like that here...just the run-of -the-mill dumb criminal who can't even get control of his own crime scene. STUUUPID!

The killer(s) will reach the end of the rope eventually and free-fall into hell. There is much the OSBI knows and much we cannot know - but as they said, the noose is tightening and soon will snare the prey.

Even Bundy and the Green River Killer were eventually run to ground.
My Opinion

[kahskye]

But would someone who was already 19 give the child to her parents to raise as their own child?



When I was in my early 20's, a friend who I worked w/ and partied w/ was letting her parents raise her little boy as their own. She had him at 18 and he was 4 at that time and just thought of him mom as his sister.

I have no idea, but in most States it doesn't matter what level of Education the parents have when a child is on Independent Study and doing their work at home.

Yeah, I didn't think of that. My ex's cousin (biker) kept his youngest dd after his ex (mom of kid) lost her first two children due to her meth addiction. He got full custody of her around 3 or 4. She started kindergarten a year late, then he decided to "see the states" and pulled her out another year. She was 9 (turning 10) and in the 2nd grade.

BTW, do you live in Oklahoma?

No, I just started emailing this reporter and he emailed back.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Originally Posted by Patience http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2335919#post2335919)
Is that Badillo? Opinions here have discounted Badillo, but I have to tell you that I would not clear him yet.


http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/badillo_jg.htmhttp://www.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/badillo_jg3.jpg


quote=Annie;There is a sentence in there that he may be trying to disguise his appearance by growing his hair long. How long would it grow in three years?[/quote]


Annie, Hair grows about 1/2 inch per month = 18" in 3 years, give or take. I would not discount him as the POI. IMO Anything is possible. This second photo of him could be mistaken for NA. Imagine him without the facial hair and a cap on. He def looks more like the POI in this photo than the first photo. good find!http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/badillo_jg3.jpg

[ArizonaGiGi]

But no-one SAW Couey. No-one could link Couey to his crime outside his own cronies and family who were as tweaked out as he was. And he did live within a few hundred feet of his victim...in a trailer park with 100 other trailers - hardly isolated or hidden - and he was caught - pretty quickly too.

In this case we have outside witnesses to the POI and a sketch of him...as well as a description of his vehicle. While our POI could indeed be "anywhere" at this point, he is not invisible and cannot spend the rest of his life without a single contact in the "outside world". He may hide, but it can't last, eventually he will have to step out into a world where someone could make that connection between him and the sketch. I think there is far more to this case than we are privy to - and I think they are closer to solving it than we know. Like Couey, the person responsible for this horrific crime will eventually make a mis-step and be caught and held accountable for his actions - and we will have another resident for Oklahoma's Death Row.

I know it is frustrating and makes us ALL angry it is going so slowly - I suggest this might help all of us who have taken these girls into our hearts: Visualize the best possible outcome for all concerned and hold Taylor and Skyla in your mind as you do. Know that what you seek (the best outcome) will become reality. There is plenty of emotion and anger and pain running rampant in this case - we don't need THAT energy. What we need most now is positive energy (however you define that - prayer, meditation, white light) and a break in the case. I do believe it will come.

My Opinion


Just because witnesses saw the POI doesn't mean he looks like what they saw.As a newbie (sorry can't remember who) pointed out, the POI may have been wearing a hat with the ponytail sewn into it. A costume type of thing. So perhaps the POI doesn't even have long hair and is hiding in plain sight. Sadly nothing would surprise me at this point.

[oceanblueeyes]

Just because witnesses saw the POI doesn't mean he looks like what they saw.As a newbie (sorry can't remember who) pointed out, the POI may have been wearing a hat with the ponytail sewn into it. A costume type of thing. So perhaps the POI doesn't even have long hair and is hiding in plain sight. Sadly nothing would surprise me at this point.


Since the artist said that several witnesses told him about the POI I believe he does look very much like the sketch. His facial features would not change even if he had long or short hair.

I don't think he was wearing a fake ponytail sewn into his hat. The side view of the POI shows he has hair below the hat area and then the ponytail starting at the base of his neck.

imo

[SeriouslySearching]

I have never seen a NA hat with an extra-long pony tail sewn into it here or anywhere. I have seen the reggae hats with the dreadlocks tho. Those wouldn't pass as NA to anyone.

I think he could be hiding out in a number of places and it might take awhile to track him. If he was the type to live off the land, it adds another layer of him being off the grid. This could be indicated if the story the girl's atty said was true about him being sighted by other family members on their property.

I believe the truck is probably an older one and it is his. I actually lean more towards it being a Ford. I remember a NA buddy of mine never owning a Chevy because Ford used names like "Mustang" and other things he associated with his culture. He even put his palm print in paint on the back side of his truck like you would brand a horse. LOL Anyway, just an observation of one NA's way of seeing things.

New Mexico would be a good place to search for the guy.

Badillo is probably south of the border now. I don't think he is involved in this at all. He has no resemblance to the POI, imo.

[Feeling Nostalgic]

No where does it state that it is a NA hat. It is stated it is a cap. If you visit the following URL. There are several selections of these caps. You can choose the color hair as well. These caps are not the cheesy ones with just a simple ponytail hanging out of the back of it.


http://store.baronunlimited.com/hatscaps.html

Sorry had to point that out. Reggae hats are not the only ones out there.

[TeeOne]

No where does it state that it is a NA hat. It is stated it is a cap. If you visit the following URL. There are several selections of these caps. You can choose the color hair as well. These caps are not the cheesy ones with just a simple ponytail hanging out of the back of it.


http://store.baronunlimited.com/hatscaps.html

Sorry had to point that out. Reggae hats are not the only ones out there.

Not to make fun, but this must be one of the hat's Tony Little (exercise equipment guru) wears all the time. I know this is a moot point, but just had to get it in here...lol

[Mysterylover]

No where does it state that it is a NA hat. It is stated it is a cap.

If you visit the following URL. There