Brooke Bennett, 12 yrs. old Randolph, VT #8

[Tom'sGirl]

I'm thinking A.R. has crossed the line in this case.
She more than crossed the line, she appears to be into the whole thing and enjoying the sex acts!

What a disgusting mess :shakehead:

[evelyn24]

Just remember, MJ has been brainwashing her for years, and controlling and threatening her too.
I think all of her actions are the fault of one man...MJ.
She thinks this is all very normal, because she's been raped for years, and probably even "loves" MJ like a lover.

[LanieCoz]

If someone is emailing copies of the affidavit, I would love to have one too.

jyram@hotmail.com

I sent it to you.

[LanieCoz]

Taximom,

did you get a copy yet?

[nanandjim]

My friend is the one who is close with Brooke's mother. He said that her ex step-father in Texas (I am not good with names, sorry, the one who is in jail now) would send the kids really good gifts and send for them to come visit and come up to visit. And that she always thought it was a little odd, but never anything to be worried about.
I wonder if Savannah was abused by her ex-stepfather, too. Sounds like a typical ploy of a sex abuser...lavish attention and really neat gifts on them...then, exchange it for the bad part...sexual favors...

About MJ: It wouldn't surprise me in the least if his father was a molester. That's how he learned the behavior. Heck, his own father may have abused him. What a bunch of sickos.

Can you ask your friend why Brooke's mother would allow her daughter to be around a known sex offender, both her ex-husband and her BIL? It just doesn't make sense to me at all. Why in the heck would she marry a sex offender, especially if she had children?

Also, where was MJ getting all his money to buy a house and land??

[evelyn24]

Nana..I don't think Ray Gagnon had a criminal record when Cassandra married him.
He's not a RSO.....yet.

[calidreamin]

I wonder if Savannah was abused by her ex-stepfather, too. Sounds like a typical ploy of a sex abuser...lavish attention and really neat gifts on them...then, exchange it for the bad part...sexual favors...

About MJ: It wouldn't surprise me in the least if his father was a molester. That's how he learned the behavior. Heck, his own father may have abused him. What a bunch of sickos.

Can you ask your friend why Brooke's mother would allow her daughter to be around a known sex offender, both her ex-husband and her BIL? It just doesn't make sense to me at all. Why in the heck would she marry a sex offender, especially if she had children?

Also, where was MJ getting all his money to buy a house and land??

I have those same questions nan, why in the world would her mother let her be around known sex offenders. What a sick horrible situation this is!

[swanniee11]

this may have already been said (I can't keep up) but it sounded the AR and her mom were going to see counsiling? Sounds like MJ was trying to get AR to stand up for him etc. What a weak man!(If you can call him a man)

It sounded like maybe Brooke said "NO" to whatever this sex ordeal is and MJ got AR to be upset with her and got her to help bound her etc but we don't know if AR was in on killing Brooke. This is so sad.

I wonder how AR felt when she found out that all those men she was talking to was actually MJ?

[Dante7]

Hello there!

I go by the name Dante. I’ve been trying to join this forum since I found it on a search for info on the Brooke Bennett disappearance (I live in the area and in fact work in a building right next door to Thermodyne, where MJ worked), but my e-mail account went haywire and it's taken this long to get it fixed. Shame they won't take web-based accounts here, but I understand the reasoning.

I was devastated to find out yesterday that they’d found Brooke's body. I’d so hoped she’d run away and gone in to hiding.

As a devotee of a belief system which holds sexuality as a sacrament, finding out about such perversions outrages me. If this “Breckinridge” program does indeed exist, and other members still remain at large (as AR said, there still may be at least one more), this groups needs to be rooted out and smashed with all speed. It stuns me that such a thing could exist in this region, but, sadly, one of my friends in social services said that it wouldn’t surprise her if in fact this was much bigger than we think.

I still hope it was just the two and only the one other victim. If not, there’s a lot more work to do, and that disturbs me.


To my knowledge, we still have no real evidence as to the origin of the name “Breckinridge”- speculation is nice but we need more hard evidence here- could be a clue, or it could as one member said, simply owe to the participants wanting to make an official-sounding name. Personally, I have doubts about the Myra Breckinridge connection.

Jacques and Gagner clearly had a thing for young girls- no evidence of boys involved so far.

(and, no, I don’t think porn had anything to do with it- legal porn still follows the “safe, consensual and sane” guidelines, and most consumers thereof are perfectly normal people- it’s just that the abnormal ones get the big press because that sells more stories)

So far as AR having told her boyfriend, I dated a girl who was being molested by her father and she didn’t tell me until after she’d gotten out of the house and he’d been arrested.

Boyfriend’s involvement? Maybe, but maybe not. Cousin could have arranged the pics/films without his knowing- the technology to do that (hidden, timed cameras/recording devices) does exist and is reasonably accessible. MJ could have easily put her up to it, and it seems a reasonable scenario that he would have.

AR participated. But to what extent? Obviously with restraining Brooke, but was she involved in the murder itself?

Sexual activity can create moments of what is called imprint vulnerability- moments where one can form psychological imprints that can affect behaviour and attitudes. One can shape another’s psyche under such conditions. Combined with psychological trauma, even more so.

And was Brooke’s death intentional, or accidental?

Footage at the store- seems like alibi. Brooke’s attitude could come from impatience at the stop- perhaps she thought he was taking her somewhere else and made a detour?

I rest assured that LE is grilling Jacques and Gagner to find out all they can about the scope of this thing, and I hope they will do all in their power to find any other victims that may exist and hunt down and bring in any other participants. This needs to end, and the people responsible need to be brought to justice (and, if I had my way, they’d die in the most horrifying, painful and disgusting manner imaginable- sadly, our death penalty is far too merciful).

Denise and Cassandra- yes, stupid and naïve at best, but they lost Brooke, and I’m sure that, and the realizations that it brings, must be devastating to them- let’s take that in to account before we cry for them to be punished too. Some things (especially radical challenges to one’s personal view of reality) are so horrifying that the psyche refuses to process them- this may not have been willful stupidity but rather an automatic psychological defense mechanism. It happens. Not justifying anything (I see them as certainly to blame for this situation), just offering a possible explanation. They’re hurting too now, more so because of the guilt involved. As it should be. Brooke’s mother screwed up and it led to the most horrifying outcome a parent can experience- I don’t think she needs anyone to add to what she’s already (deservedly) going through. Imagine how someone must feel if they list their child or niece and they realized that their own blindness had helped lead to that occurrence.

But I think any real support should just go to her biological father, not them.

Brooke’s suffering is over, and we should mourn her, but this may not be over yet.


It still stuns me how widespread pedophilia is. Aside from the above-mentioned scumbag, I found out last year that one of the teachers at the grade school I went to was an RSO, and that check we did when we moved up here turned up one in our town.

But the possibility of a group working together? That staggers my mind..

And perhaps we also should start thinking about what can be done to help prevent such things from happening again. Yeah, we can educate, yeah we can inform (when we first moved to the area, we checked the Net for local RSO’s , but that can only go so far- they both rely on the rather weak link of people actually *listening to* and *acting on* the information.

[Dante7]

I feel bad for her too. All these lives destroyed. :confused:



I missed something- whose myspace is this exactly?

[SailorMoon]

I think AR was jealous of the "normal" life that Brooke had. That's probably why she wanted her to spend a day in her life.

[evelyn24]

SNIP Imagine how someone must feel if they list their child or niece and they realized that their own blindness had helped lead to that occurrence.



Sorry, but Denise wasn't blind to anything. She saw and knew a lot.

PS.

Welcome to WS.

[VTGirl81]

I am sad that AR was abused for so long and it obviously did something to her in some way. Someone before mentioned DID (sorry, I can't remember who, this thread moves so fast) and I think that's a definite possibility. It seems like the person writing those emails (Juvenile 1) was throughly enjoying the sex acts, with "dad" and her BF (Juvenile 2). Also, she knew what was going to happen to Brooke, she said she wanted her to suffer.

They didn't think too highly of Savanna, I think she's lucky to be alive at this point. Who knows, she may have been next.

Now, LE has the tough decision of what to do with AR. She needs help, that is a given, but should she be charged as an accomplice? Under the law, that is what she is.

Tough call, glad I don't have to make it.

[Dante7]

could you send to me
message me for email


I as well. Thank you.

[dark_shadows]

I realize AR is a victim too, but after reading some of her e-mails she sent, I have a hard time believing her complete innocence in this.

Plus, now's her chance to tell LE everything, but it seems to me she might not be telling the entire truth even now.

BTW, Hi dark_shadow, always enjoy reading your posts.
Dearest Smugshots,:blowkiss:
I am honored!

It is a pleasure to hear from you.


A.R. lured Brooke to her death.


I know that from working in Corrections, so many said that they were a victim of a pervert.
But they know the difference between right and wrong and they need to be held accountable.
I remember all too well the torture, rape and murder of 2 12-year-old girls here in Vermont by juveniles. They also claimed abuse.
I had moved here from Jersey to Essex Junction during that time. I was living with my aunt and she her home was a few blocks from the murder scene. It was horrifying. I will never forget it. Never.
One of the juveniles was transfered to Texas to do a couple of years. He changed his name. His brother ended up getting murdered here because of his criminal behavior. Hamlin is still incarcerated in an out of state facility.
The crime happened in 1981.
Both of those 12-year-old girls were raped and tortured. Melissa succumbed to the torture, Megan has to live with the horror of that day as long as she lives.

By the way, I have the book about it if anyone would like to read it. Just let me know.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[evelyn24]

I think AR was jealous of the "normal" life that Brooke had. That's probably why she wanted her to spend a day in her life.

She also might have been jealous because MJ and the "other men" in the organization wanted Brooke now.
In AR's world MJ's twisted rape became attention and love to her.

[nanandjim]

I found the new affidavit...sorry if this was already posted...

http://www.timesargus.com/assets/pdf/BT4968673.PDF
This link is not working. Perhaps, the documents have been removed.

[LanieCoz]

If there is anyone else who doesn't have a copy of the affidavit and wants it, just PM me your email address.

[VTGirl81]

For those who didn't get the see the affidavit link before the Times Argus took it down (curious to know why), here is a link to the Burlington Free Press site with the link to the affidavit at the end.

Just a warning, as many have said, it is really disturbing, tough to get through.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080703/NEWS/80703026

[skymom]

This one worked for me, while the other one didn't.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

Skymom

PS I'll post on the affidavit thread too.

[nanandjim]

Also, if you're looking at that page one can only conclude that she is MJ's neice. Her status says "Karriiii! My Uncle is such a butthole'

And, since she is a friend to Bruce Benoir, I bet that she is the daughter of his sister (perhaps, the one that he allegedly raped).

[VTGirl81]

Dearest Smugshots,:blowkiss:
I am honored!

It is a pleasure to hear from you.


A.R. lured Brooke to her death.


I know that from working in Corrections, so many said that they were a victim of a pervert.
But they know the difference between right and wrong and they need to be held accountable.
I remember all too well the torture, rape and murder of 2 12-year-old girls here in Vermont by juveniles. They also claimed abuse.
I had moved here from Jersey to Essex Junction during that time. I was living with my aunt and she her home was a few blocks from the murder scene. It was horrifying. I will never forget it. Never.
One of the juveniles was transfered to Texas to do a couple of years. He changed his name. His brother ended up getting murdered here because of his criminal behavior. Hamlin is still incarcerated in an out of state facility.
The crime happened in 1981.
Both of those 12-year-old girls were raped and tortured. Melissa succumbed to the torture, Megan has to live with the horror of that day as long as she lives.

By the way, I have the book about it if anyone would like to read it. Just let me know.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

I know this case, it was told to me (not in great detail, of course) by someone when I was 12 as a warning not to take certain shortcuts. I went out and got the book and was horrified. The man who got out lives down the street from where my parents used to live. They said the police were there all the time to keep tabs on him. Apparently, he's still considered dangerous.

[nanandjim]

Well, well, well, page 16 explains how the kleenex came into play.
Did someone save this document? If so, can you send it to me?

[Dante7]

If there is anyone else who doesn't have a copy of the affidavit and wants it, just PM me your email address.

tzeenj*mythosphere.com

just replace the * with an @

[christine2448]

For those who didn't get the see the affidavit link before the Times Argus took it down (curious to know why), here is a link to the Burlington Free Press site with the link to the affidavit at the end.

Just a warning, as many have said, it is really disturbing, tough to get through.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080703/NEWS/80703026

Fabulous, thanks, this is the newest one that I have not yet seen.

[VTGirl81]

This one worked for me, while the other one didn't.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

Skymom

PS I'll post on the affidavit thread too.


Thank you! :) I tend to forget about the other threads...I remembered earlier but forgot this time.

[evelyn24]

This one worked for me, while the other one didn't.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

Skymom

PS I'll post on the affidavit thread too.

Thank you..this one does work for me.
:)

[jep0216]

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=119388490


I know I missed this, but how is Savannah related to everyone?

[SuziQ]

Sorry, but Denise wasn't blind to anything. She saw and knew a lot.

PS.

Welcome to WS.

And THAT is a crime. Literally.

[VTGirl81]

The affidavit through the Free Press website is MUCH better blacked out than the Times Argus one, maybe that's why it was taken down. You were able to see through the marks on the TA posted one and see what they were trying to black out.

[LanieCoz]

tzeenj*mythosphere.com

just replace the * with an @


Sent. If you have any problems, let me know.

[murdershewrote]

thanks, SkyMom...that one worked...I hope I can get thru it

[LanieCoz]

I know I missed this, but how is Savannah related to everyone?


Savanna is Brooke's sister.

[Dante7]

Sorry, but Denise wasn't blind to anything. She saw and knew a lot..

I didn't mean "blind" as in "didn't see"- certainly she saw. Question remains- did she see and admit to herself? "Know"- she had to know on some level, but that doesn't necessarily mean she consciously accepted it. The mind can do some pretty weird things when one can't accept what they perceive- memories get edited, in some extreme cases, one may even literally not see something right in front of one's self.


PS.

Welcome to WS.


thank you- nice to be here! I had no idea such a forum existed. Quite interesting.

[jep0216]

Savanna is Brooke's sister.


Thanks! Full sister or half-sister? And if half-sister, do they have the same father or the same mother? And who is Bruce Benoir?

[SuziQ]

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/national_world&id=6244033

Authorities have scheduled a news conference for this afternoon at the federal prosecutor's office in Burlington, Vermont.

[RR0004]

> Please explain...and that who thought it was odd? You said 'she'... AR's mother?

My friend said that Bennett's mother thought it was a little odd/strange that her ex was still so involved with her and her kids lives.
And yet, she kicked out her present bf when he came a visiting...guess she liked it as well, possibly?

[SuziQ]

Is it me? Or has WPTZ been down all day?

[Dante7]

Sent. If you have any problems, let me know.


Received. Danke. Shall peruse when I get home- going out to dinner tonite.

[LanieCoz]

Thanks! Full sister or half-sister? And if half-sister, do they have the same father or the same mother? And who is Bruce Benoir?


I believe Savanna is a half sister. They have the same mother. Bruce Benior is the husband of Michael Jacques sister.

[asher1979]

I couldn't help but notice Juvenile 1 (this is A.R. right?) begging him to keep her family safe (on page 10 of the second affadavit). I wonder if over the course of the 5 years MJ madeup false threats to scare her into cooperating. We know he told her that the president was involved. I wonder if she was brainwashed to believe that the Breckenridge program had something to do with keeping her family safe. Brooke may have been set up as a threat to the program, and thus, her family's safety.

Just a thought.

[jep0216]

I'm still trying to catch up and get through everything and I may be missing some things here...if A.R. had a boyfriend, and A.R. and Juvenile 1 are the same person, then why in the affidavit with the emails from Juvenile 1, was she talking to the "chevy" email about being in love with him? Clearly the Chevy email turned out to be the Uncle and was further brainwashing A.R., but I thought she had a boyfriend. Am I confusing too many things?

[RR0004]

Because he was setting up her kidnapping and murder. He had been planning it since May according to LE reports. He had to devise a plan where the cameras saw him drop her off and he was leading police to believe she met someone on the internet (they faked posts about meeting a boy there) to explain her disappearance. They did leave her at the store and the cousin was instrumental in helping get her back to the house where he raped her...then he murdered her (but not sure where yet).
So were there actually witnesses who saw Brooke later (I believe it was about 11am) at the Dunkin Donuts as was reported?

[jep0216]

Have we ever determined what A.R. stands for? And do we know the actual relationship between her and MJ? The affidavit appears that Juvenile 1 (A.R.) is MJ's daughter.

[SuziQ]

So were there actually witnesses who saw Brooke later (I believe it was about 11am) at the Dunkin Donuts as was reported?

Last I heard it was pinned down to 9:45am. I'm a bit confused though, was it stated that Brooke was seen on tape at Dunkin donuts and LE would not say if they saw her with anyone? I'm thinking the uncle and AR picked Brooke up from there quickly after the convenient store.

ETA: I really think they sent Brooke over to pick up donuts.

[VTGirl81]

I couldn't help but notice Juvenile 1 (this is A.R. right?) begging him to keep her family safe (on page 10 of the second affadavit). I wonder if over the course of the 5 years MJ madeup false threats to scare her into cooperating. We know he told her that the president was involved. I wonder if she was brainwashed to believe that the Breckenridge program had something to do with keeping her family safe. Brooke may have been set up as a threat to the program, and thus, her family's safety.

Just a thought.

I noticed that too...I think you make excellent points.

[SuziQ]

I'm still trying to catch up and get through everything and I may be missing some things here...if A.R. had a boyfriend, and A.R. and Juvenile 1 are the same person, then why in the affidavit with the emails from Juvenile 1, was she talking to the "chevy" email about being in love with him? Clearly the Chevy email turned out to be the Uncle and was further brainwashing A.R., but I thought she had a boyfriend. Am I confusing too many things?

Juvenile 2 is AR's boyfriend.

[VTGirl81]

Have we ever determined what A.R. stands for? And do we know the actual relationship between her and MJ? The affidavit appears that Juvenile 1 (A.R.) is MJ's daughter.


Yes, we have. But I don't think we are publishing her name anymore, right? It's MJ's step-daughter...Denise's biological daughter.

[calidreamin]

I'm still trying to catch up and get through everything and I may be missing some things here...if A.R. had a boyfriend, and A.R. and Juvenile 1 are the same person, then why in the affidavit with the emails from Juvenile 1, was she talking to the "chevy" email about being in love with him? Clearly the Chevy email turned out to be the Uncle and was further brainwashing A.R., but I thought she had a boyfriend. Am I confusing too many things?

AR has a boyfriend but was in love with the uncle too. It is a confusing mess.

[CarpeDiem]

Have we ever determined what A.R. stands for?

I hope we never do know her real name, she's only 14, but I'm sure everyone local knows. It's only a matter of time before it leaks.

[Amster]

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/national_world&id=6244033

Authorities have scheduled a news conference for this afternoon at the federal prosecutor's office in Burlington, Vermont.

Autopsy report must be in....they can announce that MJ is being charged with murder?

[CarpeDiem]

So were there actually witnesses who saw Brooke later (I believe it was about 11am) at the Dunkin Donuts as was reported?

No. The last sighting of her was at a laundromat shortly after she left the convenience store.

[Dante7]

I'm still trying to catch up and get through everything and I may be missing some things here...if A.R. had a boyfriend, and A.R. and Juvenile 1 are the same person, then why in the affidavit with the emails from Juvenile 1, was she talking to the "chevy" email about being in love with him? Clearly the Chevy email turned out to be the Uncle and was further brainwashing A.R., but I thought she had a boyfriend. Am I confusing too many things?


Perhaps.

But it is possible to romantically (for lack of a better term) love more than one person at the same time. Not the most conventional of arrangements even in ideal circumstances (which this particular instance is certainly far from) , I know, but it's possible. I know several people involved in multiple concurrent romantic relationships.

[jep0216]

Thanks everyone! There are just so many people (and fake people "C" "E"), all the email addresses and even names mentioned in the email addresses! I'm just trying to get everyone straight in my head!

[murdershewrote]

one of the things that hit me in reading the affidavit...it seemed all very urgent that they kill Brooke, they wanted to do this on Monday but had to move it to Wednesday, then saying they couldn't do it any later than such and such a date....maybe because they knew Brooke was headed to Texas? But why such urgency...it seemed like they all knew it just had to happen right now.

They were all so worried about anything going wrong., this thing fell apart faster than almost any case I've followed in a long time. They are stupid...how did they ever think they were all going to get away with this.

[jep0216]

And, since she is a friend to Bruce Benoir, I bet that she is the daughter of his sister (perhaps, the one that he allegedly raped).

What is the link to this myspace page? and who's page is it?

[SuziQ]

It's obvious that the plan was never for Brooke to survive the attack. Was the order of sexual equipment specifically to use on Brooke? Omg, what did they do to her?!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=5300619&page=2

(snips)
On May 28, according to the complaint, the e-mail user Rauel Domingo wrote that they needed to find a way to get Bennett involved in the "Breckenridge" program soon. Juvenile 1 suggested how to set up the abduction and said that she wanted to see Bennett suffer to "see how she likes it."
On June 20, an e-mail from Domingo worries about Juvenile 1's willingness to carry out the plan.

"I want to know if you are willing to help dad with the taken-down and the tie up on Wednesday morning," Domingo asks her.
It is unclear whether "dad" refers to Jacques. The e-mail also suggests that a Taser could be used. "I suppose we could just have him tase her and knock her down then do it himself, but that is a little more traumatic than I wanted her to experience that early in the morning," read the e-mail. "She will have enough of that later."
Juvenile 1 writes back to assure Domingo that she "will help out dad witht [sic] the tie down," according to the complaint.

"Then put the handkerchief into a plastic sandwich bag and seal it up and hide it," the e-mail to Juvenile 2 instructed. A semen-stained handkerchief was found near Bennett's torn underpants the day after she disappeared.
Authorities also traced a June 16 purchase by Jacques of more than $1,000 worth of sexual items from a Web site that were shipped to his Vermont home.

[SuziQ]

Autopsy report must be in....they can announce that MJ is being charged with murder?

Possibly. Or more arrests. Every presser reveals sicker details than the last one.

Anyone seeing updates or live links?

[jep0216]

It's taking me forever to get through the affidavit. Found it interesting on page 13 that AR writes in an email that she wants to have someone piss in Brookes mouth and wants her to suffer. My goodness!

[VTGirl81]

Do we know what time this one is scheduled for?

[jep0216]

Do we know if AR knew that "chevy" was in fact her step father? If she did, this girl is sicker than I thought.

[jep0216]

Nevermind! I just read the end of the affidavit that claims she had sex with the Chevy person but was drugged and couldn't identify him. But that could just be another one of her many lies.

[MCDRAW]

It's taking me forever to get through the affidavit. Found it interesting on page 13 that AR writes in an email that she wants to have someone piss in Brookes mouth and wants her to suffer. My goodness!


I still can't get the affadavit to work.

[Amster]

Do we know what time this one is scheduled for?

I think it's possibly a mistake. The press conf. was held this morning.....Fox hasn't said anything about another one this afternoon. I'll keep checking..

[dark_shadows]

Am I reading it right that Denise and Michael had a rocky marriage and that Denise wanted a divorce? I am getting this from the emails sent back and forth from Jacques and A.R.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[MCDRAW]

Autopsy report must be in....they can announce that MJ is being charged with murder?


Will someone please transcribe the news conference?

[Cornflower]

[QUOTE=SuziQ;2348778]Was the order of sexual equipment specifically to use on Brooke? Omg, what did they do to her?!!!
QUOTE]

It does seem very likely that they did use those items on her. Didn´t make the connection before you brought it up. It makes me sick to think what she went through. Poor child. It may very well be that she didn´t have any normal people close to her. Just twisted ones who were only interested in their own well-being and satisfaction. I´m so very sorry for her.

[Jen_in_Indy]

I think it's possibly a mistake. The press conf. was held this morning.....Fox hasn't said anything about another one this afternoon. I'll keep checking..

The ABC news link said that there is a presser scheduled for this afternoon. But, it gave no time.

[dark_shadows]

There will be a report about the autopsy tonight at 6.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Taximom]

I'm way behind but there is an "ash" mentioned by "Juvenile 1" on page 10 of the latest affidavit. I'm assuming that's short for someone's name (female).

[SuziQ]

The affidavit from Burlington Press is heavily redacted. The original one itemized the bondage items MJ bought earlier this month. IIRC, the order is over a 1000.00. and one of the items purchased was a **cking Machine. I won't post the link to those machines at the very company MJ placed the order through. You can google extremerestraints and figure out the right path to view what I'm talking about. You can figure out that the high priced items is what was purchase.

This case is beyond sick.

[evelyn24]

Thanks everyone! There are just so many people (and fake people "C" "E"), all the email addresses and even names mentioned in the email addresses! I'm just trying to get everyone straight in my head!

Just know this..they're all MJ, except for AR's emails. They are from her.

[RR0004]

I noticed that too...I think you make excellent points.
ok...I'm not finished with reading this whole new affidavit...and IMO friends, this wasn't anything about fear of her family being safe from the boogie people of "Breckenridge"..these emails are code! AJ is afraid that someone is talking...he's afraid that the mom wants to divorce him...phone records are being checked...AR's mom is getting VERY suspicious...AR is afraid that mom will divorce dad (her lover) and they won't be able to carry on as they have. The low profile that was kept (it's been over for 2 weeks) is because someone ...and I do think it's Denise...has caught on. Now, I'm not sure if Brooke was the one who told perhaps her own mother who then told Denise...but IMO that's where the anger towards Brooke is coming from. This isn't about any indoctrination into a sex program...they were planning on killing her!! And the sick thing is...the step-father was a part of it!! I may be way off base...but this is beyond sick. Can someone please tell me this...how was it documented that AR has been sexually abused since the age of 9?

[SuziQ]

I'm not finding anything else saying there is a presser this afternoon. Maybe the ABC article was wrong?

[beth272]

Ok, so all the emails are really from MJ right? So AR is in love with her step-father? Do I have this right?

[dark_shadows]

So where did Jacques get the money to pay for almost 2 grand in restaint devices and house payments and every other bill, including gas money spent to travel back and forth to his job from Randolph to New Hampshire.
Sorry, I have to ask this again.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[RR0004]

Also...how do we know that MJ is the one with the money?

[SuziQ]

This isn't about any indoctrination into a sex program...they were planning on killing her!! And the sick thing is...the step-father was a part of it!! I may be way off base...but this is beyond sick. Can someone please tell me this...how was it documented that AR has been sexually abused since the age of 9?

This is what I think as well.

[SuziQ]

So where did Jacques get the money to pay for almost 2 grand in restaint devices and house payments and every other bill, including gas money spent to travel back and forth to his job from Randolph to New Hampshire.
Sorry, I have to ask this again.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

And a 2007 Chevy pickup!

[RR0004]

Ok, so all the emails are really from MJ right? So AR is in love with her step-father? Do I have this right?
You got it.

[luthersmama]

The affidavit from Burlington Press is heavily redacted. The original one itemized the bondage items MJ bought earlier this month. IIRC, the order is over a 1000.00. and one of the items purchased was a **cking Machine. I won't post the link to those machines at the very company MJ placed the order through. You can google extremerestraints and figure out the right path to view what I'm talking about. You can figure out that the high priced items is what was purchase.

This case is beyond sick.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

There's stuff on that site that I have never, ever heard of. He is a very sick animal. To even THINK of using that torture device on a 12 y/o is just...sick.. Can't think of any other words.

[rccook555]

So where did Jacques get the money to pay for almost 2 grand in restaint devices and house payments and every other bill, including gas money spent to travel back and forth to his job from Randolph to New Hampshire.
Sorry, I have to ask this again.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

I wondered this myself Dark Shadows
and the equipment being sent to his house without his wife knowing??

[RR0004]

This is what I think as well.
Bless you...I feel so much better knowing i'm not the only one.

[dark_shadows]

And a 2007 Chevy pickup!
My very dearest Suzi,:blowkiss:
I was going to add that in there about the truck! I assumed people would know what I was getting at about the gas money driving back and forth to work. Good job.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[jep0216]

I still can't get the affadavit to work.

Try this link

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

[dark_shadows]

I wondered this myself Dark Shadows
and the equipment being sent to his house without his wife knowing??

My dearest Rccook,:blowkiss:
I hear ya on that!


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[believe09]

Am I reading it right that Denise and Michael had a rocky marriage and that Denise wanted a divorce? I am getting this from the emails sent back and forth from Jacques and A.R.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

I personally feel that michael was rocking AR's world in order to keep her off balance and needy. By the emails it appears that she felt her "dad" was being threatened-"keep my dad and my family safe," was repeated I believe. It kept a wedge between Denise and herself...very successfully...note how she stated she would kill her mom.

In all my years on this earth, I have never, ever read anything as appalling as that affidavit. It is truly a pain too deep for tears.

[Amster]

There will be a report about the autopsy tonight at 6.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows

Thank you! You're the best! :)

[murdershewrote]

it's obvious they were trying to frame the BF,using his semen..wonder how he feels now?

Believe09, I am right there with you. Things have gotten way too out of control, I don't know how to stop it but how many children must be murdered before people rise up. Passing a few state laws isn't working.

[RR0004]

So where did Jacques get the money to pay for almost 2 grand in restaint devices and house payments and every other bill, including gas money spent to travel back and forth to his job from Randolph to New Hampshire.
Sorry, I have to ask this again.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows
That will be easy enough for the FBI to track down through bank accounts, credit card statements, and such...don't you think? We just may not hear about it unless it's wrapped up in another charge.

[rccook555]

Im off to make dinner. Thank you all for your patience in me getting the emails out of the affidavit. :blowkiss:
If someone could post any updates on the presser, i would appriciate it!
Thanks!

[calidreamin]

My dearest Rccook,:blowkiss:
I hear ya on that!


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

I was thinking the same thing! Don't you think the wife had to notice the equipment coming to the house. Maybe she thought it was for her.:eek::eek:

[RR0004]

I personally feel that michael was rocking AR's world in order to keep her off balance and needy. By the emails it appears that she felt her "dad" was being threatened-"keep my dad and my family safe," was repeated I believe. It kept a wedge between Denise and herself...very successfully...note how she stated she would kill her mom.

In all my years on this earth, I have never, ever read anything as appalling as that affidavit. It is truly a pain too deep for tears.
Yes...and she was hoping for a time when they could be together and have their own family. Maybe 16? Hey, look at Woody Allen stranger things have already happened. If AR believed her "perfect little world' was about to be broken apart...there's no telling what she was capable of doing. Don't get me wrong...I think this girl needs a great deal of therapy, but where do you draw the line between a victim and an accomplice?

[Amster]

Does Denise have a job? Maybe she makes good money to help enable her perv hubby.

[Carrington]

From the affidavit: Page 11
I really believe money for sex was involved plus the underage porno,
that no legit site would touch.

"Those two, Kevin and raker, are both still wicked hot for you that's why they always seem to be hanging around the fields as much as they can.
They looking for more teasing for sure. I told dad to talk to them next time he sees them and put in a good word for you and maybe that will help get them jumpstarted right to you."

:rolleyes:

[philamena]

From thread #7. Reposting to give us hope.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...EWS01/80702039 (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080703/NEWS01/80702039)

Prosecutors say the Vermont man charged with kidnapping his 12-year-old niece — who was found dead near his home — could face the death penalty.
:woohoo::smiliescale:

[Amster]

Yes...and she was hoping for a time when they could be together and have their own family. Maybe 16? Hey, look at Woody Allen stranger things have already happened. If AR believed her "perfect little world' was about to be broken apart...there's no telling what she was capable of doing. Don't get me wrong...I think this girl needs a great deal of therapy, but where do you draw the line between a victim and an accomplice?

The e-mail from "Africa"....who did she think she was talking to? Unless there is another man who she was having sex with, she had to know it was MJ, right?

[RR0004]

Brooke knew what was going on...and probably to the extent it was going on. They silenced her...for MJ 'cause it was prison for life...for AR 'cause I truly believe she thought people wouldn't understand their relationship if it became known.

[SuziQ]

In rereading the affidavit, it appears AR was giving Brooke the impression that a boy (Juvi 2)was into her. Poor girl probably thought she was doing nothing more than going to hang out with Juvi 2 because he liked her and nothing else. They completely lied to Brooke. I am so so so sick.

[RR0004]

From thread #7. Reposting to give us hope.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...EWS01/80702039 (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080703/NEWS01/80702039)


:woohoo::smiliescale:
I don't really believe in the death penalty, partially because I could never imagine sitting on a jury and deciding whether or not a person should live or die, but this is a case where I would actually love to be there and start the drip (g-d forgive me)!!

[Amster]

In rereading the affidavit, it appears AR was giving Brooke the impression that a boy (Juvi 2)was into her. Poor girl probably thought she was doing nothing more than going to hang out with Juvi 2 because he liked her and nothing else. They completely lied to Brooke. I am so so so sick.

Exactly....Sam.....wanted to be with Brooke at the party. :mad:

[murdershewrote]

Kevin and raker..

from that description, sounds like two local boys that wanted in on the action.

[athy]

something i noticed...Juv 1 didn't agree to help until after the guy mentioned about possibly using a tazer on brooke. perhaps she agreed to make sure it wasn't used.

[RR0004]

The e-mail from "Africa"....who did she think she was talking to? Unless there is another man who she was having sex with, she had to know it was MJ, right?
Absolutely...it's definitely another code IMO...hey FBI folks did this trip check out with immigration?

[dark_shadows]

Dearest SS,:blowkiss:
They were in a nice home as people can see from the photos of it.
Where did the money come from for that home?
Bank records are probably being checked. Was there money made in setting up a website with "pay per view" of the videos made of A.R. with her boyfriend and ones of A.R. with anyone else?
I just have a hard time believing that Jacques and Denise lived in a home like that. I expected alot less of the home prior to seeing it on TV.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

That will be easy enough for the FBI to track down through bank accounts, credit card statements, and such...don't you think? We just may not hear about it unless it's wrapped up in another charge.
My dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Yes, of course! I already stated that. That is why I posted the quote

shown at the top of this post. It is on page 4 or this thread.:)


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[SuziQ]

Exactly....Sam.....wanted to be with Brooke at the party. :mad:

Omg, AR and MJ were beyond cruel! Brooke may have had an inkling that something wasn't right between AR and MJ. But she had no idea what was coming....they completely ambushed her!

[RR0004]

Kevin and raker..

from that description, sounds like two local boys that wanted in on the action.
just a piece of her if I'm not mistaken...

[petra]

My very dearest Suzi,:blowkiss:
I was going to add that in there about the truck! I assumed people would know what I was getting at about the gas money driving back and forth to work. Good job.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Hi DS:blowkiss:--thanks for all the info posted by you-
What do you think about snuff...hate to even raise it :mad:

[believe09]

In rereading the affidavit, it appears AR was giving Brooke the impression that a boy (Juvi 2)was into her. Poor girl probably thought she was doing nothing more than going to hang out with Juvi 2 because he liked her and nothing else. They completely lied to Brooke. I am so so so sick.

This reminds me of the case in Michigan they successfully prosecuted after 26 years-I think the victim's name was janet? She worked at a hotel, and her room mate set her up to be raped and murdered because of jealousy...I am sure that MJ as the puppet master created the hatred between brooke and AR...I mean, AR had been so broken and...I don't know what the right statement is without sounding too harsh...almost used. Watching her perp(s) moving on to someone else must have created a tornado of emotions....

[RR0004]

My dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Yes, of course! I already stated that. That is why I posted the quote

shown at the top of this post. It is on page 4 or this thread.:)


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Hey, honey...I look back and you guys are already 5 pages ahead...forgive me for trying to keep up...I need a week!!

oxoxoxoxox

[philamena]

I wasn't going to follow this case but it has my attention due to the strange family dynamics and plain perverted things going on that "no one knew about". give me a break.... none are so blind as those that will not see. Where the heck was the mother in all this? worried about what her next dollar instead of her child? What the heck is wrong with these women? children are a gift from God , not a gift to give to an adult male.

hey becca,
The mother is mentally ignorant. Or as I called her last night-stupid. :banghead:
These freaks imo are all connected in this sex ring thing.
I still have a hard time believing people are this freakin sick.
How much has the cousin suffered? She's been brain washed, raped, and God only knows what else.
Who is this child staying with now? The other idiot mother?

Can you imagine how much Brooke suffered? :furious:
Was she raped? Tortured? Both? :mad:

I hope the arrested perps rot in he*l forvever and ever and ever. :dervish::devil:

[Amster]

And....what did it matter if Savannah was at work or not? She didn't live there.

[calidreamin]

Omg, AR and MJ were beyond cruel! Brooke may have had an inkling that something wasn't right between AR and MJ. But she had no idea what was coming....they completely ambushed her!

They did ambush her and that poor little thing had no idea what was coming.

[Beffie]

something i noticed...Juv 1 didn't agree to help until after the guy mentioned about possibly using a tazer on brooke. perhaps she agreed to make sure it wasn't used.


I didn't see it like that I thought I read she wanted Brooke to suffer and didn't know if she wanted time with Brooke, maybe to p*ss in her mouth. I do not see alot of love for Brooke from her. I hope she gets the help she needs. :(

[RR0004]

Omg, AR and MJ were beyond cruel! Brooke may have had an inkling that something wasn't right between AR and MJ. But she had no idea what was coming....they completely ambushed her!
So much so...it breaks my heart. I believe she was an innocent in all of this.

[RR0004]

So much so...it breaks my heart. I believe she was an innocent in all of this.
...and no one should ever have to experience the pain of losing a child

[calidreamin]

hey becca,
The mother is mentally ignorant. Or as I called her last night-stupid. :banghead:
These freaks imo are all connected in this sex ring thing.
I still have a hard time believing people are this freakin sick.
How much has the counsin suffered? She's been brain washed, raped, and God only knows what else.
Who is this child staying with now? The other idiot mother?

Can you imagine how much Brooke was suffered? :furious:
Was she raped? Tortured? Both? :mad:

I hope the arrested perps rot in he*l forvever and ever and ever. :dervish::devil:

Hi phil:blowkiss:. That was perfect, said only the way you can.:clap::clap::clap::furious:

[SuziQ]

So much so...it breaks my heart. I believe she was an innocent in all of this.

Remember being 12 and so excited if a boy liked you? Omg, I don't know if I want to know more.

[petra]

I didn't see it like that I thought I read she wanted Brooke to suffer and didn't know if she wanted time with Brooke, maybe to p*ss in her mouth. I do not see alot of love for Brooke from her. I hope she gets the help she needs. :(

IMO, if AR actually wrote these emails herself, she may have been writing what she thought MJ ánd aliases wanted to hear--to please him--with the 'dirty and tough talk

[petra]

So much so...it breaks my heart. I believe she was an innocent in all of this.

I agree..totally heartbreaking, Poor Brooke.

[KR2tonenow]

This is what I think as well.

I see premeditation here, and Juvie 1 is accomplice.

[SuziQ]

IMO, if AR actually wrote these emails herself, she may have been writing what she thought MJ ánd aliases wanted to hear--to please him--with the 'dirty and tough talk

AR physically implemented the plan on the 25th.

[luthersmama]

Absolutely...it's definitely another code IMO...hey FBI folks did this trip check out with immigration?

The "guy in Africa" is Jacques using one of his phony personas. He is impersonating the "ring leader". AR doesn't know that "dad" and "C" (aka Raoul) are the same guy.

He is truly, truly evil.

[rccook555]

Hi DS:blowkiss:--thanks for all the info posted by you-
What do you think about snuff...hate to even raise it :mad:

I hated to raise that thought too. Hubby said the same thing last night. Boy i sure hope not...

[RR0004]

Remember being 12 and so excited if a boy liked you? Omg, I don't know if I want to know more.
Ok...you did it...flood gates opened...and this precious girl will never know now.
I'll be back after I've collected myself.

[petra]

AR physically implemented the plan on the 25th.

Oh SQ, I know,...I just do not want to believe it!! I am so in denial about AR's actions...

[Nugrandma1]

I was totally disgusted listening to Brooke's mother, puleezzzzzz give me a beak. Cry now, lady, it's partly your fault. Such a dumb stupid women. I don't have one ounce of sympathy for her or her sister. I feel sorry for the other girl, and she will need extensive mental health counseling. I wonder who else was involved in this. I hope they find out who.

I think the whole family has some sort of abusive background. That's why it was condoned and overlooked by the Mom and family.

Poor Brooke she's the REAL victim here.

[RR0004]

IMO, if AR actually wrote these emails herself, she may have been writing what she thought MJ ánd aliases wanted to hear--to please him--with the 'dirty and tough talk
I know plenty of teenagers who talk that way I'm afraid.

[luthersmama]

Hi DS:blowkiss:--thanks for all the info posted by you-
What do you think about snuff...hate to even raise it :mad:

I'm so horrified by the scheming and the torture equipment that I can barely process this. But my hunch is that he didn't intend to kill her. I do think that she died a horrible death while trussed up on that thing while being violated in at least two different ways at once. :eek:

I'm pretty liberal minded about what consenting adults mutually agree to do. But any of that stuff used on a 12 y/o is apt to do serious damage.

I just hope that she was drugged and didn't feel any pain.

[jep0216]

One thing I just thought about...if AR and Juv 1 are the same person, wasn't it AR who first indicated that MJ was the one who abused her for the last 5 years, and thus, the reason MJ was even looked at to begin with? Do you think she had some remorse after the whole incident, or am I confusing more facts?

[SuziQ]

IMO, if AR actually wrote these emails herself, she may have been writing what she thought MJ ánd aliases wanted to hear--to please him--with the 'dirty and tough talk

AR did write her emails. On page 17, item 35 of the affidavit she states she followed the instruction (per email she received) to have Juvi 2 ejaculate on the handerchief.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

[petra]

I hated to raise that thought too. Hubby said the same thing last night. Boy i sure hope not...i. sure hope not too= but unfotunately it is still too real in this world and very profitable for the pigs who do this:furious:

eastern europe

[SuziQ]

One thing I just thought about...if AR and Juv 1 are the same person, wasn't it AR who first indicated that MJ was the one who abused her for the last 5 years, and thus, the reason MJ was even looked at to begin with? Do you think she had some remorse after the whole incident, or am I confusing more facts?

AR lied to authorities only confessing to the facts when confronted further.

[Taximom]

One thing I just thought about...if AR and Juv 1 are the same person, wasn't it AR who first indicated that MJ was the one who abused her for the last 5 years, and thus, the reason MJ was even looked at to begin with? Do you think she had some remorse after the whole incident, or am I confusing more facts?

Timing wise, I think they were already on to MJ when they re-interviewed AR. So they probably talked her into telling the truth IMO and I still think she's holding back.

[Carrington]

Remember being 12 and so excited if a boy liked you? Omg, I don't know if I want to know more.

Wouldn't Brooke think it strange that AR was setting her up with her own boyfriend? Encouraging it, in fact?

:book:

[evelyn24]

This reminds me of the case in Michigan they successfully prosecuted after 26 years-I think the victim's name was janet? She worked at a hotel, and her room mate set her up to be raped and murdered because of jealousy...I am sure that MJ as the puppet master created the hatred between brooke and AR...I mean, AR had been so broken and...I don't know what the right statement is without sounding too harsh...almost used. Watching her perp(s) moving on to someone else must have created a tornado of emotions....

Absolutely. He manipulated AR all the way into everything she did and felt.
Even trying to get her to talk against her own mother in family counseling when MJ was pretending to be the man from Africa.

[Amster]

Did A.R. go to school? Have friends?

At 9. she got a note under her pillow and a phone call? When did MJ become her step-dad?

[SuziQ]

I'm so horrified by the scheming and the torture equipment that I can barely process this. But my hunch is that he didn't intend to kill her. I do think that she died a horrible death while trussed up on that thing while being violated in at least two different ways at once. :eek:



Collecting the DNA on the handkerchief is premed to murder IMO. Because alive Brooke would obviously tell who did this to her. MJ never intended Brooke to live and collected the DNA to frame AR's BF.

[petra]

AR did write her emails. On page 17, item 35 of the affidavit she states she followed the instruction (per email she received) to have Juvi 2 ejaculate on the handerchief.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

SQ--I am so disgusted that I am still in denial. I just don't want to believe this happened in a large (dysfuctional) family in small town america.

:eek:

[Amster]

Wouldn't Brooke think it strange that AR was setting her up with her own boyfriend? Encouraging it, in fact?

:book:

Maybe Brooke never met the boyfriend.

[believe09]

(ducking) Wondering about AR's mental acuity...is she perhaps a little more childlike than is typical for her age??

[SuziQ]

Wouldn't Brooke think it strange that AR was setting her up with her own boyfriend? Encouraging it, in fact?

:book:

Doesn't matter. It appears poor Brooke bought into it.

[evelyn24]

ok...I'm not finished with reading this whole new affidavit...and IMO friends, this wasn't anything about fear of her family being safe from the boogie people of "Breckenridge"..these emails are code! AJ is afraid that someone is talking...he's afraid that the mom wants to divorce him...phone records are being checked...AR's mom is getting VERY suspicious...AR is afraid that mom will divorce dad (her lover) and they won't be able to carry on as they have. The low profile that was kept (it's been over for 2 weeks) is because someone ...and I do think it's Denise...has caught on. Now, I'm not sure if Brooke was the one who told perhaps her own mother who then told Denise...but IMO that's where the anger towards Brooke is coming from. This isn't about any indoctrination into a sex program...they were planning on killing her!! And the sick thing is...the step-father was a part of it!! I may be way off base...but this is beyond sick. Can someone please tell me this...how was it documented that AR has been sexually abused since the age of 9?

Woa..you just blew me away. I love it when someone challenges me to look at something in another light.
I have to think about this one.

[Amster]

Do we know who all lived in the house with A.R and MJ? Why were A.R. and Denise in counciling?

[CarpeDiem]

(ducking) Wondering about AR's mental acuity...is she perhaps a little more childlike than is typical for her age??

Way. I think she stopped maturing at 9.

[evelyn24]

Way. I think she stopped maturing at 9.

Bingo.

[Jen_in_Indy]

Hi DS:blowkiss:--thanks for all the info posted by you-
What do you think about snuff...hate to even raise it :mad:

I also hate to entertain that thought, but when I think back to some of the emails, it sounded to me like they planned to inflict pain on Brooke. When MJ (under whatever name he was using) said that he didn't want to inflict pain with the taser because she would have more of that later that day...and also the fact that this was so obviously premeditated. I think that may very well be what they were doing. And also, perhaps this explains why she wasn't reported missing for 12 hours.:confused:

[luthersmama]

Collecting the DNA on the handkerchief is premed to murder IMO. Because alive Brooke would obviously tell who did this to her. MJ never intended Brooke to live and collected the DNA to frame AR's BF.

I thought the dna was collected AFTER she disappeared. I'll have to look at the affidavit again.

[SuziQ]

SQ--I am so disgusted that I am still in denial. I just don't want to believe this happened in a large (dysfuctional) family in small town america.

:eek:

It's making me physically ill thinking about what happened on the 25th. My heart is breaking so bad for Brooke.

[CarpeDiem]

Timing wise, I think they were already on to MJ when they re-interviewed AR. So they probably talked her into telling the truth IMO and I still think she's holding back.

They were already on to him and showed her evidence of that. I'm on the fence about her being involved even more. It sure didn't take too much or too much time for her to crack to LE. You would think they have to save something for trial, they usually put the minimum in these documents. So, there probably is much more.

[luthersmama]

I thought the dna was collected AFTER she disappeared. I'll have to look at the affidavit again.

Nope - You are right. It was requested on the 23rd. Wow.

How the heck did he think he was going to get away with this?

How much does the young boyfriend know?

Sicksicksicksicksick.

[adnoid]

...I have read studies on this...and will post links when I have time..but yes, it is truely a waste of money-yet cheaper than incarceration.:mad:

I'm driving by a place on my way home that sells a package deal - enough to treat 50 child molesters with a 0% recidivism guarantee (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=326) - for about $32. I'm buying.

[evelyn24]

Collecting the DNA on the handkerchief is premed to murder IMO. Because alive Brooke would obviously tell who did this to her. MJ never intended Brooke to live and collected the DNA to frame AR's BF.
Good point, why would you need semen on a tissue if you planned on letting Brooke live?

[calidreamin]

Good point, why would you need semen on a tissue if you planned on letting Brooke live?

Exactly, so much pre planning went into this the plan had to be for Brook to be killed.:mad:

[Amster]

press conference?

[Carrington]

Fox saying Ray Gagnon is being arraigned in the next few minutes.

[dark_shadows]

WPTZ is awaiting results.
They said that Brooke's myspace has been taken offline.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[MCDRAW]

Maybe Brooke never met the boyfriend.


I took it to mean that A.R.'s boyfriend said "Sam" another boy liked Brooke. I may be wrong but that's what I got out of it.

[dark_shadows]

Also said on the news here is that a domestic violence group is against the death penalty for people like Jacques and Gagnon. This they said is due to the fact that victim's will not speak out if their relatives face death after being reported.


Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[jep0216]

WPTZ is awaiting results.
They said that Brooke's myspace has been taken offline.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows


I just looked, and both of her pages are still up.

[RR0004]

Also said on the news here is that a domestic violence group is against the death penalty for people like Jacques and Gagnon. This they said is due to the fact that victim's will not speak out if their relatives face death after being reported.


Respectfully,
dark_shadows
These are NOT blood relatives.

Thanks for keeping us posted, DS.

[dark_shadows]

I just looked, and both of her pages are still up.
Dearest Jep, :)
That is what WPTZ said a few minutes ago.


Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[dark_shadows]

These are NOT blood relatives.

Thanks for keeping us posted, DS.
Dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Yes, I know that they are not blood relatives. I am only posting what is said on my local news for everyone here.





Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[RR0004]

AR lied to authorities only confessing to the facts when confronted further.
For all we know...there was even discussion as to what she would say if ever confronted or found out.

Am I wrong to assume, there was a discussion via email about how to eliminate the problem...in so many words?

[RR0004]

Dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Yes, I know that they are not blood relatives. I am only posting what is said on my local news for everyone here.





Respectfully,
dark_shadows
Just venting frustration...what are these people thinking!!

[SeriouslySearching]

Finally, I got to read the @#$% affidavit!! GRRR! I hope someone got the version that wasn't half blacked out. (Thanks again, Tomsgirl! Hugs~)

[luthersmama]

I believe there is a "hamlet" or crossroads or other speck on the map known as Breckenridge in Vermont. Googling produces Breckenridge VT as the location for a couple of businesses and a 22 year old guy on Myspace. However, the guy also says he lives in Weybridge and the business zip code comes back as the same one for Stowe.

Any locals make any sense of this?

[dark_shadows]

I just spoke to one of the reporters at WPTZ and he said that the arraignment might possibly be delayed because of the holidays.
But they are waiting to hear the arraginment and autopsy results.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Carrington]

Also said on the news here is that a domestic violence group is against the death penalty for people like Jacques and Gagnon. This they said is due to the fact that victim's will not speak out if their relatives face death after being reported.


Respectfully,
dark_shadows


I bet more would victims would welcome the death penalty than not.
I'm surprised more don't take matters into their own hands. :gavel::gavel:

IMO

[skymom]

He sent her the email on Monday, June 23, so this shows premeditation of a set up.

:waitasec:

Also, I wonder if the "delay" that he alluded to (moving the day from Monday to Wednesday) was because he was waiting for his order to be delivered (he ordered the stuff from that horrible website on June 16, and maybe at the end of the week he realized it might not arrive in time...) It was Friday June 20 when he sent the note moving it from Monday to "Wednesday or Thursday". Just a thought...

Skymom

[Amster]

Reporter on CNN Headline News said the e-mails could very well be written in "code"...

[SuziQ]

For all we know...there was even discussion as to what she would say if ever confronted or found out.

Am I wrong to assume, there was a discussion via email about how to eliminate the problem...in so many words?

I'll have to read the affidavit again. But in so many words yes.

[SuziQ]

He sent her the email on Monday, June 23, so this shows premeditation of a set up.

:waitasec:

Also, I wonder if the "delay" that he alluded to (moving the day from Monday to Wednesday) was because he was waiting for his order to be delivered (he ordered the stuff from that horrible website on June 16, and maybe at the end of the week he realized it might not arrive in time...) It was Friday June 20 when he sent the note moving it from Monday to "Wednesday or Thursday". Just a thought...

Skymom

Good catch!

[SuziQ]

There is more we don't know. On page 1, item 4 of the complaint the agent says he only included enough information to secure a criminal complaint.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

[RR0004]

One thing I did just notice in the affidavit was that AR was having problems with mom...due to go to counseling...that much I think i do believe.

BTW...if he really did go on a safari...we're talking about about a trip that could cost more than $10,000!

[Taximom]

I'm just so confused as to why MJ is so concerned about her parents divorcing. He certainly was trying to sway her to say bad things in counseling about her mom. There was a lot of effort put into that part of the email.

[Carrington]

One thing I did just notice in the affidavit was that AR was having problems with mom...due to go to counseling...that much I think i do believe.

BTW...if he really did go on a safari...we're talking about about a trip that could cost more than $10,000!

I certainly hope Denise was not blaming AR for what she learned by coming home from work early.
Taking the girl to counseling, did she think the problem was with the girl?
Head up her A**?

I think his safari was in the next room.

IMO

[MCDRAW]

There is more we don't know. On page 1, item 4 of the complaint the agent says he only included enough information to secure a criminal complaint.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF



I just don't think I can take any more information. M.J. is a very sick individual and he deserves the death penalty.

[jep0216]

I'm just so confused as to why MJ is so concerned about her parents divorcing. He certainly was trying to sway her to say bad things in counseling about her mom. There was a lot of effort put into that part of the email.


Because MJ and her mother were married. So he was worried that if anyone found out (i.e. by Brooke telling anyone) that his wife would divorce him.

[legallee]

I know lots are sadden by AR and her ordeala as I am too but I'm on the fence with her being an accomplice. I know she's a victim of this sick twisted piece of chit but I'm not buying the all innocent thing from her. Those emails have hate and anger for Brooke in them.

[Taximom]

Because MJ and her mother were married. So he was worried that if anyone found out (i.e. by Brooke telling anyone) that his wife would divorce him.

Wait, AR is MJ's daughter? How did I miss that?! OMG.

[calidreamin]

Wait, AR is MJ's daughter? How did I miss that?! OMG.

Hi TM:blowkiss: AR is MJ's step daughter.

[Taximom]

I know lots are sadden by AR and her ordeala as I am too but I'm on the fence with her being an accomplice. I know she's a victim of this sick twisted piece of chit but I'm not buying the all innocent thing from her. Those emails have hate and anger for Brooke in them.

Yeah, but MJ was playing everyone, and he could have easily played AR by saying all kinds of things about Brooke to get her that angry. Plus some girls that age are just mean.

[concernedperson]

There is more we don't know. On page 1, item 4 of the complaint the agent says he only included enough information to secure a criminal complaint.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

I noticed that and feel that there is much more that is not being presented. Of course, if is horrible enough. I also feel that there are others involved....either participants or recipients of porn and possibly snuff films. Jacques didn't get this urge one day to commit murder as his past sets up the precedent. Others involved wouldn't be stellar individuals either.

Then, there is the extra money for a man who is not of wealth and his employment doesn't indicate a high paying job.

I think the feds came into this/took over rather quickly for good reason.

[EYL]

Does anyone know if they are having the press conference?

[Taximom]

Hi TM:blowkiss: AR is MJ's step daughter.

Hi Cali!! OH I had no idea. I must have missed this part big-time. I thought her identity was still unknown. Oh Lord, this is just all so sick and wrong. I mean, it was before but... ugh.

[SuziQ]

For all we know...there was even discussion as to what she would say if ever confronted or found out.

Am I wrong to assume, there was a discussion via email about how to eliminate the problem...in so many words?

Page 13, item 25 refers to "the problem" (Brooke).

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

[MCDRAW]

I certainly hope Denise was not blaming AR for what she learned by coming home from work early.
Taking the girl to counseling, did she think the problem was with the girl?
Head up her A**?

I think his safari was in the next room.

IMO


Of course, if there was ever a family that needed counseling, it was this one.

[Carrington]

I wish we knew where Denise worked.......

[RR0004]

I know lots are sadden by AR and her ordeala as I am too but I'm on the fence with her being an accomplice. I know she's a victim of this sick twisted piece of chit but I'm not buying the all innocent thing from her. Those emails have hate and anger for Brooke in them.
The one thing that stood out for me when confronted with the identities of the emails was that she (AR) DIDN'T know who they were (said she believed them to be "Breckenridge")...when it was clearly obvious she did (look at item #33 of the affidavit). Jacques identified them as being his...she comes up with a cockamamy story. LE has got to be looking at this girl quite closely...especially as they refer to the "participants" of the kidnapping. G-d help this girl...she must be so messed up.

[calidreamin]

Hi Cali!! OH I had no idea. I must have missed this part big-time. I thought her identity was still unknown. Oh Lord, this is just all so sick and wrong. I mean, it was before but... ugh.

I know TM it just get worse and worse. I just can't get over how horrible this whole thing is.:mad:

[SeriouslySearching]

I'm just so confused as to why MJ is so concerned about her parents divorcing. He certainly was trying to sway her to say bad things in counseling about her mom. There was a lot of effort put into that part of the email.Because MJ IS her parent that would be getting the divorce and losing his "time" with AR. MJ aka "E" wanted AR to tell Denise and the counselor that AR didn't like the way mom was treating her "dad" (MJ) in an effort to make Denise feel guilty, I guess. (From what was said about AR's father being around, we need to find out more about him. Obviously, MJ knew Denise was talking to him and he was jealous.)

[MCDRAW]

I noticed that and feel that there is much more that is not being presented. Of course, if is horrible enough. I also feel that there are others involved....either participants or recipients of porn and possibly snuff films. Jacques didn't get this urge one day to commit murder as his past sets up the precedent. Others involved wouldn't be stellar individuals either.

Then, there is the extra money for a man who is not of wealth and his employment doesn't indicate a high paying job.

I think the feds came into this/took over rather quickly for good reason.


I know I am really naive but what is snuff films?

[RR0004]

Page 13, item 25 refers to "the problem" (Brooke).

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF
Thanks...I got it up in another window and will go take a look.

Do you guys think this site is being monitored by LE and news stations? Just curious.

[KR2tonenow]

CP, you're right. They have evidence now and Juvie 1 witness, I do believe this POS slime will get Federal DP.

[Carrington]

Of course, if there was ever a family that needed counseling, it was this one.

MJ had extensive counseling, that worked out well.
IMO

[Busylady]

A.R. is MJ's step daughter

Wait, AR is MJ's daughter? How did I miss that?! OMG.

[concernedperson]

I know I am really naive but what is snuff films?

Actual murders sold on the net.

[RR0004]

Because MJ IS her parent that would be getting the divorce and losing his "time" with AR. MJ aka "E" wanted AR to tell Denise and the counselor that AR didn't like the way mom was treating her "dad" (MJ) in an effort to make Denise feel guilty, I guess. (From what was said about AR's father being around, we need to find out more about him. Obviously, MJ knew Denise was talking to him and he was jealous.)
All of this leads me to believe that perhaps Denise was also a good meal ticket. Maybe she came into an inheritance?

[SuziQ]

I would be shocked if AR isn't charged with kidnapping. Her emails are detailed on how she felt it should go down. And it sounds to me like the "take down" happened in the living room with all three there. The only real question yet is whether AR thought this was just a torture session or murder.

[Chica]

The one thing that stood out for me when confronted with the identities of the emails was that she (AR) DIDN'T know who they were (said she believed them to be "Breckenridge")...when it was clearly obvious she did (look at item #33 of the affidavit). Jacques identified them as being his...she comes up with a cockamamy story. LE has got to be looking at this girl quite closely...especially as they refer to the "participants" of the kidnapping. G-d help this girl...she must be so messed up.

When I read #33 it seems clear to me that she did not know that Chevy21 was MJ...she says she had sex w/him, but she was drugged and could not identify him.:waitasec:

[RR0004]

Anyway we can find who's name is on the properties...or did we already do that?

[KR2tonenow]

There is probably (sic) individuals who would pay to watch the torture, rape, and murder of a 12 yr old girl.

[SuziQ]

Thanks...I got it up in another window and will go take a look.

Do you guys think this site is being monitored by LE and news stations? Just curious.


It usually is.

[SeriouslySearching]

Do you guys think this site is being monitored by LE and news stations? Just curious.Sure do. They would be crazy not to! We have such good theories and do excellent research here. :Justice::seeya:

[RR0004]

When I read #33 it seems clear to me that she did not know that Chevy21 was MJ...she says she had sex w/him, but she was drugged and could not identify him.:waitasec:
The same email came again and again from these addresses...look at her responses back to these addresses. How did she not know?

[RR0004]

Sure do. They would be crazy not to! We have such good theories and do excellent research here. :Justice::seeya:
Love your doohickey!!

[dark_shadows]

I do not believe that we will be hearing anything about the arraigement. If he was even arraigned.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[SeriouslySearching]

When I read #33 it seems clear to me that she did not know that Chevy21 was MJ...she says she had sex w/him, but she was drugged and could not identify him.:waitasec:Which means it could have been MJ, RG, or any other male if what she says is true. I don't know that I believe she was drugged tho for some reason. I don't have an explanation as to why she could not identify him, however. Still, remember from Gagnon's affidavit...he admitted to having sex at the same time with her as MJ.

[RR0004]

I would be shocked if AR isn't charged with kidnapping. Her emails are detailed on how she felt it should go down. And it sounds to me like the "take down" happened in the living room with all three there. The only real question yet is whether AR thought this was just a torture session or murder.
I most certainly agree with you...but if they wanted to insure Brooke's silence...how did they believe torturing her would do the trick. Surely there would be physical signs, no?

[thefragile7393]

You would think they have to save something for trial, they usually put the minimum in these documents. So, there probably is much more.
:sick: You have got to be kidding me. I know you're not..but...criminy this is unbelievable.

[Busylady]

A.R. father is Shawn E. Rice per birth records
She married Shawn E. Rice 4/7/1990
could not locate divorce records for Shawn and Denise

Denise marries Scott R. Rice
per divorce records Denise divorced Scott R. Rice on 6/10/1997



from what I can tell by track it - Shawn E and Scott R are brothers but not confirmed

[SeriouslySearching]

The same email came again and again from these addresses...look at her responses back to these addresses. How did she not know?14 yos only see the screennames and never pay attention to anything else, imo. She would not have known where they were from.

[RR0004]

Which means it could have been MJ, RG, or any other male if what she says is true. I don't know that I believe she was drugged tho for some reason. I don't have an explanation as to why she could not identify him, however. Still, remember from Gagnon's affidavit...he admitted to having sex at the same time with her as MJ.
I don't believe she can't recollect...JMO.

[SeriouslySearching]

A.R. father is Shawn E. Rice per birth records
She married Shawn E. Rice 4/7/1990
could not locate divorce records for Shawn and Denise

Denise marries Scott R. Rice
per divorce records Denise divorced Scott R. Rice on 6/10/1997



from what I can tell by track it - Shawn E and Scott R are brothers but not confirmedThat is wild. So Denise has a baby by one and marries the other?!

[RR0004]

A.R. father is Shawn E. Rice per birth records
She married Shawn E. Rice 4/7/1990
could not locate divorce records for Shawn and Denise

Denise marries Scott R. Rice
per divorce records Denise divorced Scott R. Rice on 6/10/1997



from what I can tell by track it - Shawn E and Scott R are brothers but not confirmed
Holy moly...what's in the water in that part of Vermont?

[Chica]

Which means it could have been MJ, RG, or any other male if what she says is true. I don't know that I believe she was drugged tho for some reason. I don't have an explanation as to why she could not identify him, however. Still, remember from Gagnon's affidavit...he admitted to having sex at the same time with her as MJ.

My emotions about this case are on a roller coaster. Last night I found it upsetting that a lot of the posts were pointing fingers at the mom, aunt, and cousin...now I just don't know. One minute I still believe I need more information from law enforcement before I can point a finger or place blame, and the next minute it appears blatantly obvious that they each have some blame in this...I guess I need more info...

[Busylady]

Well she married both of them, and divorced both of them before she married Jacques apparently. This entire family seems to have multiply marriages makes it hard to figure anything out.

That is wild. So Denise has a baby by one and marries the other?!

[SeriouslySearching]

I most certainly agree with you...but if they wanted to insure Brooke's silence...how did they believe torturing her would do the trick. Surely there would be physical signs, no?They were not interested in insuring Brooke's silence other than by way of murder. This was a rape/torture/murder plot. They were not worried about physical signs of abuse when they were finished with her, imo. :furious:

[Chica]

Which means it could have been MJ, RG, or any other male if what she says is true. I don't know that I believe she was drugged tho for some reason. I don't have an explanation as to why she could not identify him, however. Still, remember from Gagnon's affidavit...he admitted to having sex at the same time with her as MJ.

(Bolding is mine) You are right...I totally blocked that info out of my mind...what a mess...

[RR0004]

Ok...my kids have to eat...but I just wanted to say a) that I find such comfort knowing you guys are out here trying to make the world a better place (corny as that may sound)...and b) I truly cannot fully comprehend what has happened...nor can I imagine the rest that has yet to be revealed.

[RR0004]

They were not interested in insuring Brooke's silence other than by way of murder. This was a rape/torture/murder plot. They were not worried about physical signs of abuse when they were finished with her, imo. :furious:
Thanks...confirms what I do believe.

[MCDRAW]

I googled extremerestraints and I have decided that I am extremely naive. I had no idea those things even existed. I can not imagine the horror that Brooke went through. I'm hoping he gets the death penalty.

[SeriouslySearching]

Love your doohickey!!You do know if you will just click the post reply button instead of going to the open window (quick reply) at the bottom of this where you put your reply...you can have all the "doohickies", too.

[joga]

concerning A.R., i am having a hard time sussing out how i feel about what has happened. on the one hand, i honestly feel that she did not realize who she was talking to w/ M.J. e-mail aliases, that she was so afraid and brainwashed that she would have done whatever was asked of her. It is not like we haven't seen time and time again children who have been so extremely damaged in this way eventually "helping" or "luring" others into a similar fate. It completely screws up the their sense of what is right and wrong (imo). About her comments about things she would want done to Brooke, i believe it's possible that she is so bitter and angry and hurt about what has been happening to her that she maybe felt that Brooke could take some of the pressure off of her and the things that she has been forced to do. Even to want her to be hurt as she has. I almost think that would be a normal reaction when (and judging by the mothers comments in the affadavit about the things that she has seen, all signs point to them being true) things are that horrific.

Then again, i can't wrap my brain around the fact that she seemed so into it.

The latter never entered my mind in other cases (ie hornbeck) when children have been, for lack of a better word, accomplices. I don't know why i am thinking that now. Anybody else having such mixed feelings?

[RR0004]

14 yos only see the screennames and never pay attention to anything else, imo. She would not have known where they were from.
Ok...confused...aren't these emails? Wouldn't she be clicking them open...reading them...responding to them...how did she not know?...he tells her he dreams about her and their child? She thinks this is coming from some anonymous person she has no relationship with?

[RR0004]

You do know if you will just click the post reply button instead of going to the open window (quick reply) at the bottom of this where you put your reply...you can have all the "doohickies", too.
Very funny!

[Taximom]

Soooo, where was this special equipment going to go? Does he have a dungeon somewhere? The sugar shack? The old home they moved from? You can't hide that one thing in a drawer, I don't think.

[RR0004]

Soooo, where was this special equipment going to go? Does he have a dungeon somewhere? The sugar shack? The old home they moved from? You can't hide that one thing in a drawer, I don't think.
Ok...guess I now have to look at this device...

[luthersmama]

concerning A.R., i am having a hard time sussing out how i feel about what has happened. on the one hand, i honestly feel that she did not realize who she was talking to w/ M.J. e-mail aliases, that she was so afraid and brainwashed that she would have done whatever was asked of her. It is not like we haven't seen time and time again children who have been so extremely damaged in this way eventually "helping" or "luring" others into a similar fate. It completely screws up the their sense of what is right and wrong (imo). About her comments about things she would want done to Brooke, i believe it's possible that she is so bitter and angry and hurt about what has been happening to her that she maybe felt that Brooke could take some of the pressure off of her and the things that she has been forced to do. Even to want her to be hurt as she has. I almost think that would be a normal reaction when (and judging by the mothers comments in the affadavit about the things that she has seen, all signs point to them being true) things are that horrific.

Then again, i can't wrap my brain around the fact that she seemed so into it.

The latter never entered my mind in other cases (ie hornbeck) when children have been, for lack of a better word, accomplices. I don't know why i am thinking that now. Anybody else having such mixed feelings?


I think we need more info. AR at one point said that she was being raped and tortured regularly since she was 9. However, this affidavit seems to indicate that she was only with "Chevy" once. :waitasec:

I do believe she is seriously messed up. She is also an accomplice to kidnapping, rape and murder.

Is she "innocent" now? No. Is she guilty of a crime? Maybe. Are there major mitigating circumstances? Probably.

The girl needs to be pulled out of that "family" and put into intensive treatment ASAP. Maybe she can still be saved, but the depth of the depravity she has been living with makes me worry that she is just too broken.

[SeriouslySearching]

I googled extremerestraints and I have decided that I am extremely naive. I had no idea those things even existed. I can not imagine the horror that Brooke went through. I'm hoping he gets the death penalty.While I am not as naive about such things, I was horrified and sickened to think of any of those things being used on this child. I didn't get to read the full affidavit before it was blacked out, but I have an idea which one he bought. I can't figure out what else he bought tho.

I hope he was stupid enough to leave them somewhere on his property and that LE has them as evidence. I did note they went to his house so I would have to assume that AR signed for them since both MJ and Denise would be at work during delivery time.

[MCDRAW]

Have the police even found the device?

[SuziQ]

Then again, i can't wrap my brain around the fact that she seemed so into it.

The latter never entered my mind in other cases (ie hornbeck) when children have been, for lack of a better word, accomplices. I don't know why i am thinking that now. Anybody else having such mixed feelings?

I need more tinfoil for my hat because I was just thinking the same thing. I was thinking why do I feel so different about AR than I did about Hornbeck and others. And then you said "she seemed so into it." That's why for me. However, would I feel different about Hornbeck if I had the details I have in this case?

[SailorMoon]

I knew it...all the good stuff is bla