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SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:02 PM
Please continue here...

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:05 PM
We knew you were not cheering about the device, SS and you absolutely got it right that this was going to do some damage if it was in fact used on poor Brooke-and if it was used on her, then the damage was completely intentional of course and there was absolutely no plan to let her live.

So what is the payout for any video of this and who has MJ's hard drive? Do you think whatever the score was happened to be worth the DP or life without parole in a federal prison?

Getting back to a time line, they had about how many days to disappear the hard drive before the feds started catching up with them???This is a huge if...but Ray Gagnon mentioning the Russian child porn ring to me was no mistake on his part. I think it was a clue for LE. If he and MJ were doing business with them, we are talking serious threats against them for nonpayment or for not producing what they promise, imo. After seeing the machine, I think he very well could have produced a snuff film and shipped it off in the time after her disappearance before LE got to him. I don't know how they would go about finding it or tracing such a thing...but they should start there.

I believe they had 2 days before they started really zeroing in on MJ where he would find it difficult to get rid of things so it had to have been immediately after the murder.

KR2tonenow
07-03-2008, 09:15 PM
Tracing all outbound shipments directly after the murder is proable, through Fed ex, UPS, standard mail. I sure hope the Feds are considering this.

I believe there is a monetary motive here, besides sick perversion.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:17 PM
Is there a way to trace it without the computer or the hard drive he sent it from if he did send it via internet?

MCDRAW
07-03-2008, 09:18 PM
Gagnon doesn't appear to have enjoyed any of the wealth.

believe09
07-03-2008, 09:18 PM
This is a huge if...but Ray Gagnon mentioning the Russian child porn ring to me was no mistake on his part. I think it was a clue for LE. If he and MJ were doing business with them, we are talking serious threats against them for nonpayment or for not producing what they promise, imo. After seeing the machine, I think he very well could have produced a snuff film and shipped it off in the time after her disappearance before LE got to him. I don't know how they would go about finding it or tracing such a thing...but they should start there.

I believe they had 2 days before they started really zeroing in on MJ where he would find it difficult to get rid of things so it had to have been immediately after the murder.

This market would make sense....I would not be looking for fed ex though-I would be looking at Juvenile 1 giving the package to Juvenile 2 who gave the package to Juvenile 3 who mailed it to aunt sally and so on and so on...

wicket
07-03-2008, 09:18 PM
Would a letter writing campaign or a petition help in regards to moving Cashman off the bench or to retirement? I know there are other judges who grant early dismissal similar to the Jacques case but it has to start somewhere. We could refer to it as Brooke's Campaign for Justice.

believe09
07-03-2008, 09:19 PM
Is there a way to trace it without the computer or the hard drive he sent it from if he did send it via internet?


Maybe if he had dial up? Wait, wait-wasn't there a big AP story months ago about ISP's charging "frequent flyers" when it came to file sharing over the internet? That must mean there is a way to track it, probably using the IP address....I am not that proficient in this stuff so laugh if you want to...

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:22 PM
Would a letter writing campaign or a petition help in regards to moving Cashman off the bench or to retirement? I know there are other judges who grant early dismissal similar to the Jacques case but it has to start somewhere. We could refer to it as Brooke's Campaign for Justice.Here is a whole thread dedicated to that very issue: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66865 It is named Demand Change In Vermont Law Please feel free to add your great idea!

KR2tonenow
07-03-2008, 09:23 PM
Is there a way to trace it without the computer or the hard drive he sent it from if he did send it via internet?

If they were able to obtain the email messages on MJ, I would say yes.
However, I think Garnan may be the distributor. I sure hope they get their hands on the safe. Is the landlord in TX being truthful? Also they need to start going through the dumps there.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:23 PM
Gagnon doesn't appear to have enjoyed any of the wealth.Good point. Another reason that Gagnon might have for rolling over on MJ. Where is the money trail?

KR2tonenow
07-03-2008, 09:23 PM
Gagnon doesn't appear to have enjoyed any of the wealth.

I noticed that:eek: Not yet anyway....

jep0216
07-03-2008, 09:25 PM
Just a thought...are we sure AR and Juv 1 are the same person, or if either of these girls are the one he allegedly molested for the last 5 years? The only reason I ask is because in a lot of today's articles I have been reading, it talks about the emails with Juv 1 and then they all say "Meantime, state charges alleging that Jacques sexually assaulted a different girl over a 5 year period were dropped, but could be refiled." I just wanted to make sure AR, Juv 1, and the "different girl" are all one in the same.

SuziQ
07-03-2008, 09:25 PM
I don't believe this was posted earlier. Very good discussion:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0807/02/ng.01.html

NANCY GRACE
Remains Believed to Be Missing Vermont Girl Found
Aired July 2, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:25 PM
If they were able to obtain the email messages on MJ, I would say yes.
However, I think Garnan may be the distributor. I sure hope they get their hands on the safe. Is the landlord in TX being truthful? Also they need to start going through the dumps there.Truthfully, I think that Kevin G., the landlord, is in on the gig. I think he either sold it, stashed it, or otherwise got rid of it. The safe may have been put in a dumpster...but I bet the contents were not. The laptop is missing and probably won't be found at least intact.

I am sure that TX LE and the FBI are searching high and low for it. If they do ever find it and it has Kevin G.'s print anywhere but the outside...he is cooked, too.

SuziQ
07-03-2008, 09:27 PM
Just a thought...are we sure AR and Juv 1 are the same person, or if either of these girls are the one he allegedly molested for the last 5 years? The only reason I ask is because in a lot of today's articles I have been reading, it talks about the emails with Juv 1 and then they all say "Meantime, state charges alleging that Jacques sexually assaulted a different girl over a 5 year period were dropped, but could be refiled." I just wanted to make sure AR, Juv 1, and the "different girl" are all one in the same.

AR and Juvi one are the same. The State charges were dropped because the federal charges are more severe (death).

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:28 PM
Just a thought...are we sure AR and Juv 1 are the same person, or if either of these girls are the one he allegedly molested for the last 5 years? The only reason I ask is because in a lot of today's articles I have been reading, it talks about the emails with Juv 1 and then they all say "Meantime, state charges alleging that Jacques sexually assaulted a different girl over a 5 year period were dropped, but could be refiled." I just wanted to make sure AR, Juv 1, and the "different girl" are all one in the same.Yes, I am almost positive they are. They started out refering to her as AR, but the affidavits since then have come from the Feds. They use Juv 1 instead. They had to drop the lesser state charges to be able to charge him Federally on the Kidnapping and soon to be Murder One charges. This enables the Feds to take over jurisdiction of the case and also will allow for the DP if convicted.

dark_shadows
07-03-2008, 09:29 PM
Would a letter writing campaign or a petition help in regards to moving Cashman off the bench or to retirement? I know there are other judges who grant early dismissal similar to the Jacques case but it has to start somewhere. We could refer to it as Brooke's Campaign for Justice.
Cashman retired in 2006
respectfully,
dark_shadows

KR2tonenow
07-03-2008, 09:29 PM
Truthfully, I think that Kevin G., the landlord, is in on the gig. I think he either sold it, stashed it, or otherwise got rid of it. The safe may have been put in a dumpster...but I bet the contents were not. The laptop is missing and probably won't be found at least intact.

I am sure that TX LE and the FBI are searching high and low for it. If they do ever find it and it has Kevin G.'s print anywhere but the outside...he is cooked, too.

Awaiting his indictment!

RR0004
07-03-2008, 09:30 PM
Truthfully, I think that Kevin G., the landlord, is in on the gig. I think he either sold it, stashed it, or otherwise got rid of it. The safe may have been put in a dumpster...but I bet the contents were not. The laptop is missing and probably won't be found at least intact.

I am sure that TX LE and the FBI are searching high and low for it. If they do ever find it and it has Kevin G.'s print anywhere but the outside...he is cooked, too.
Oh..he is definitely linked to this.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:30 PM
The money will be found with the distributor so while I used to think it was Gagnon...now I am not so sure. Is there a 3rd party involved here that they don't know about yet? A "runner" of sorts with the product and the cash?

MCDRAW
07-03-2008, 09:35 PM
Good point. Another reason that Gagnon might have for rolling over on MJ. Where is the money trail?


Oh, I believe Gagnon is rolling as we speak. I'm sure he isn't wanting to go down on a murder charge or even kidnapping. I think M.J. had Gagnon change the stuff on the computer by holding the sex with A.J. over his head. Which is why he brought him into the group...in my opinion. I just don't see Gagnon as deep into this Breckinridge group as M.J. Not that he is innocent by no means...in fact I am hoping he spends the rest of his life in prison.

Busylady
07-03-2008, 09:36 PM
I believe there are more involved and more minor victims.

Busylady
07-03-2008, 09:39 PM
It has been said that MJ and DJ had a child together and that it is a girl. I would like to know how old she is. I am also not convinced that A.R. boyfriend isnt involved someway.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:39 PM
True. Gagnon started singing as soon as he was arrested on the Federal charge for obstruction according to that affidavit. They will have plenty of charges for him starting with having sex with MJ and AR at the same time. He is already toast. However, if he can prove he was not anywhere near VT or the crime scene...and prove he was NOT helping to plan the abduction/torture/murder (which I find difficult to believe)...then he will get the lighter sentence of the two men (meaning he won't die as soon).

RR0004
07-03-2008, 09:39 PM
Good to know!


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/03/...irl/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/03/missing.vermont.girl/index.html)



Asked Thursday if a ring of child abusers is at large, Anderson said he did "not believe there was a continuing danger to the public."
Vermont Attorney General William H. Sorrell added, "There's nothing from this investigation that's been turned up, nor otherwise are federal and state authorities aware of any ongoing efforts to recruit young girls or boys here in Vermont to have sex with adults."

Beyond Belief
07-03-2008, 09:40 PM
Found some property for sale in Randolph. Just to give an idea.
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes/randolph+center-vt/

concernedperson
07-03-2008, 09:44 PM
It has been said that MJ and DJ had a child together and that it is a girl. I would like to know how old she is. I am also not convinced that A.R. boyfriend isnt involved someway.


I am not convinced either. He may not have known his DNA would be placed with the murdered child but he is part of the sex ring. IMO. I think the younger child is around 8 but that was many, many threads ago.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:44 PM
I believe there are more involved and more minor victims.I have no doubt there are more minor victims. MJ is pure evil and I think they should be comparing his DNA in every case across the country. I also think that it is not the first time he has killed. He was too comfortable doing all of this. The planning, the involvement of AR, RG, and the BF...plus ordering his torture "chamber", the orchestration of the abduction etc.. It seems to be too involved for an amateur.

RR0004
07-03-2008, 09:46 PM
MJ has no moral compass whatsoever.

RR0004
07-03-2008, 09:47 PM
He would do everyone a favor if he "offed" himself.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:48 PM
Good to know!


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/03/...irl/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/03/missing.vermont.girl/index.html)



Asked Thursday if a ring of child abusers is at large, Anderson said he did "not believe there was a continuing danger to the public."
Vermont Attorney General William H. Sorrell added, "There's nothing from this investigation that's been turned up, nor otherwise are federal and state authorities aware of any ongoing efforts to recruit young girls or boys here in Vermont to have sex with adults."And you would actually expect them to admit it if there were?! :confused:

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:51 PM
He would do everyone a favor if he "offed" himself.No, he wouldn't! He needs to come up with answers to hundreds of thousands of questions before they stick the needle in his arm. He will do everyone a favor by coming completely clean about every sick and demented thing he has ever done in his lifetime. People deserve answers. He deserves torture plus more. He would be the only one to benefit if he offed himself.

Carrington
07-03-2008, 09:53 PM
I am not convinced either. He may not have known his DNA would be placed with the murdered child but he is part of the sex ring. IMO. I think the younger child is around 8 but that was many, many threads ago.

Yes, I do remember something about another child. Ashley :confused:

Dante7
07-03-2008, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by petra
Hi DS--thanks for all the info posted by you-
What do you think about snuff...hate to even raise it



Possible, but, if so, if you mean a murder filmed for later distribution, it would be the first confirmed case of this happening.

Murders filmed for personal viewing technically don't qualify as "snuff"

A technicality, I know, but an important one.

Dante7
07-03-2008, 09:54 PM
\
IMO, if AR actually wrote these emails herself, she may have been writing what she thought MJ Šnd aliases wanted to hear--to please him--with the 'dirty and tough talk

I'd wondered that as well. How much of this was her going along with MJ out of fear and/or love? Seems plausible to me.

Pinkhammer
07-03-2008, 09:58 PM
I'm sure this has been asked in one of the previous threads, but are there any other missing girls in Vermont?

TIA

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 09:59 PM
Possible, but, if so, if you mean a murder filmed for later distribution, it would be the first confirmed case of this happening.

Murders filmed for personal viewing technically don't qualify as "snuff"

A technicality, I know, but an important one.What would make you think that this was for personal viewing as a snuff film? I would say the confirmation would be evident in the film and we will know more when they release the autopsy results. The confirmation for the other people could come in more than one way, too. Trophies are one example to be delivered with the film.

Gagnon mentioned in his affidavit to LE the Russian child porn rings. Like I said before, I don't think this was by accident.

By the way, Welcome to WS, Dante7!

KR2tonenow
07-03-2008, 10:00 PM
BRIANNA MAITLAND (http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=985167&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US)
NCMC985167
-Endangered Missing (View Poster (http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=985167&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US))
DOB: Oct 8, 1986 Age: 21
Missing: Mar 19, 2004 Race: White
Location: EAST FRANKLIN, VT, US

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 10:02 PM
I'm sure this has been asked in one of the previous threads, but are there any other missing girls in Vermont?

TIAThere are, but off the top of my head I don't have the names. I think that would be a great idea for a new thread. Thanks for mentioning it. I am sure our posters will be glad to list them there so we can compare notes on them. :)

concernedperson
07-03-2008, 10:03 PM
No, he wouldn't! He needs to come up with answers to hundreds of thousands of questions before they stick the needle in his arm. He will do everyone a favor by coming completely clean about every sick and demented thing he has ever done in his lifetime. People deserve answers. He deserves torture plus more. He would be the only one to benefit if he offed himself.

The real truth is he will be on death row for many years if convicted so he has lots of opportunity to talk. Most of them never do and relive their experiences in their own sick demented minds. The difference between Jacques and others is he has left an internet trail that can be traced.The feds took this over with that in mind I feel sure. This means that many, many people who thought they were obscure aren't. What's that old song "Bringing Down The House"?

philamena
07-03-2008, 10:10 PM
Found some property for sale in Randolph. Just to give an idea.
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes/randolph+center-vt/


Great find Beyond.

philamena
07-03-2008, 10:11 PM
He would do everyone a favor if he "offed" himself.


Or someone could accidentally off him. :eek:

adnoid
07-03-2008, 10:16 PM
Do you guys think this site is being monitored by LE and news stations? Just curious.

:wave: Pick me - I know this one!

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 10:20 PM
:wave: Pick me - I know this one!Spill it. We know that NG, Greta, and other news media don't follow along...because they are wrong too often. :P

Tom'sGirl
07-03-2008, 10:20 PM
:wave: Pick me - I know this one!
Step to the front of the class young man, your answer is ?

Carrington
07-03-2008, 10:21 PM
I'm sure this has been asked in one of the previous threads, but are there any other missing girls in Vermont?

TIA


http://www.dps.state.vt.us/vtsp/missing

Missing in VT

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 10:22 PM
Or someone could accidentally off him. :eek:I think Adnoid should get that pleasu....uhm...job.

Chica
07-03-2008, 10:22 PM
Yes, I do remember something about another child. Ashley :confused:

As soon as I saw 'Ashley' I remembered seeing 'Ash' named in the last affidavit. It is on Page 10, item (b), third line from the bottom in the middle paragraph...just WHO did AR think she was talking to? I just can't follow all of this...:waitasec:

Carrington
07-03-2008, 10:27 PM
Spill it. We know that NG, Greta, and other news media don't follow along...because they are wrong too often. :P


:clap: you got that right!

Sleuthster
07-03-2008, 10:29 PM
Or someone could accidentally off him. :eek:

How does one "accidentally" off someone?:waitasec:

Wait a sec... Maybe we should ask Drew Peterson isnt that what happened to wife #1?

SuziQ
07-03-2008, 10:30 PM
As soon as I saw 'Ashley' I remembered seeing 'Ash' named in the last affidavit. It is on Page 10, item (b), third line from the bottom in the middle paragraph...just WHO did AR think she was talking to? I just can't follow all of this...:waitasec:

Wasn't that AR's sister? If true, that sure gives a new meaning of who she knew she was talking to.

dark_shadows
07-03-2008, 10:33 PM
How does one "accidentally" off someone?:waitasec:


Dearest Sleuther,:)
One accidently hanged.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 10:36 PM
As soon as I saw 'Ashley' I remembered seeing 'Ash' named in the last affidavit. It is on Page 10, item (b), third line from the bottom in the middle paragraph...just WHO did AR think she was talking to? I just can't follow all of this...:waitasec:OK now you have me wondering and I thought I was sure. WTH? Yes..the affidavit did mention an "Ash". That would be under article #21 of the affidavit where it said:

"Subject: Phones and Stuff
To: Raueldom @yahoo.com
From: Juvenile 1 & Juvenile ] email address]

~snip~

I will keep an eye on him real good, you need to also and you need to keep a real good eye on the phone company. You need to have people working around the F'ing clock on this...Do you understand?? Thats like somebody trying to kill ash or something you would never let that happen to her so don't let this or anything else happen to my dad. I want up dates on everything and i would like them to be good updates please."

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

ETA: forgot the link!

Sleuthster
07-03-2008, 10:37 PM
Dearest Sleuther,:)
One accidently hanged.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

;) gotcha. I am sure they took the shoe laces and probably even the toothbrush from both POS.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 10:41 PM
Wasn't that AR's sister? If true, that sure gives a new meaning of who she knew she was talking to.It could be in the course of the many emails back and forth that "C" accidently mispoke and mentioned he had a daughter name Ashley then convinced her how common that is for a girl's name "in the program" and she never put it together. I still don't think she knew she was talking to MJ in those emails.

SailorMoon
07-03-2008, 10:42 PM
As in, Ash, as in the affidavit?

Yes, I do remember something about another child. Ashley :confused:

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 10:46 PM
OK so let's decifer that message.

The "phone company" was out to kill MJ. (Darn..I guess that is a code thing...sorry! Gotcha now!) So AR was concerned there was a "hit" put out? She must have been told that Brooke was part of their group that was out to get "dad". "People" were out to get him in some way and she made it sound serious.

She was appealing for him to watch out for her "dad" tho which does confuse me some. (Was she talking about another "team" of people stopping it?)

Keep in mind this girl had been told she was part of a government project as in "secret agent". So if he put it in her head about other "secret agents" and that whole context...her answers are going to reflect such.

philamena
07-03-2008, 10:47 PM
How does one "accidentally" off someone?:waitasec:

Wait a sec... Maybe we should ask Drew Peterson isnt that what happened to wife #1?

bahaaaa Good point. :clap:
I think DP is the perfect person to ask.:crazy:
Seriously, these creeps that killed Brooke are so filthy, vulgar and slimy, I imagine LE has a hard time not punching them.

Carrington
07-03-2008, 10:49 PM
As in, Ash, as in the affidavit?

Hundreds of posts ago, we were freely naming family members the list grew in a hurry. Then we got PC, as suspicion grew that Brooke was not a runaway or myspace victim and was in grave danger.
IMO

Chica
07-03-2008, 10:52 PM
It could be in the course of the many emails back and forth that "C" accidently mispoke and mentioned he had a daughter name Ashley then convinced her how common that is for a girl's name "in the program" and she never put it together. I still don't think she knew she was talking to MJ in those emails.

That makes perfect sense! It is so hard to not read more into things, isn't it? I keep trying to decipher the 'hidden meanings' to statements in the affidavits, and there may very well be no hidden meanings! sheesh...I keep confusing myself!:confused::waitasec::confused:

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 10:52 PM
I never thought of her as a runaway or even abducted by a stranger. I thought it was Uncle Creepy from the git go. The rest didn't fit.

Tom'sGirl
07-03-2008, 10:56 PM
It could be in the course of the many emails back and forth that "C" accidently mispoke and mentioned he had a daughter name Ashley then convinced her how common that is for a girl's name "in the program" and she never put it together. I still don't think she knew she was talking to MJ in those emails.
Does Savanna have childen?

philamena
07-03-2008, 10:56 PM
Dearest Sleuther,:)
One accidently hanged.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

:clap::clap::clap:

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 10:57 PM
Does Savanna have childen?Good question! I don't know. She is what...17 or 18? I didn't notice any mention on her myspace page.

Tom'sGirl
07-03-2008, 11:00 PM
Good question! I don't know. She is what...17 or 18? I didn't notice any mention on her myspace page.
Her MySpace says 18, and she doesn't say she has children.

Carrington
07-03-2008, 11:01 PM
AR reminds me of Sydney Bristow of Alias, also known as Jennifer Gardner. (sp)
Her training tapes, perhaps.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 11:02 PM
Her MySpace says 18, and she doesn't say she has children.I haven't heard she does and from the sounds of things...I think Savannah is not involved in any way in this.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 11:08 PM
Megyn Kelly on Fox news is on a rant. I heard it earlier, but she has lost all of her objectivity for this story tenfold!! Wow! (Good! I am glad to hear the outrage!)

concernedperson
07-03-2008, 11:09 PM
I haven't heard she does and from the sounds of things...I think Savannah is not involved in any way in this.

In the CBS Early morning show on video she seemed the most distraught and heartbroken.

Tom'sGirl
07-03-2008, 11:09 PM
I haven't heard she does and from the sounds of things...I think Savannah is not involved in any way in this.

I felt very sorry for Savanna when I saw her the other morning on TV. But, I do wonder if she ever had any knowledge of anything 'hinky' going on within the family.

Tom'sGirl
07-03-2008, 11:11 PM
In the CBS Early morning show on video she seemed the most distraught and heartbroken.
Yes, she was cp.

adnoid
07-03-2008, 11:11 PM
Step to the front of the class young man, your answer is ?

I'm 47, I'm not young.

The question was do LE and news people read here.

The answer is "yes". They generally alert the staff first, but are not required to. We do give this information in the TOS (in case people feel like discussing their own illegal activities - we can't say we didn't warn you).

But we're not going to give details, for obvious reasons.

concernedperson
07-03-2008, 11:11 PM
I felt very sorry for Savanna when I saw her the other morning on TV. But, I do wonder if she ever had any knowledge of anything 'hinky' going on within the family.

I would say not that she would acknowledge at the time but her heart was broken that part was obvious.

jep0216
07-03-2008, 11:14 PM
As soon as I saw 'Ashley' I remembered seeing 'Ash' named in the last affidavit. It is on Page 10, item (b), third line from the bottom in the middle paragraph...just WHO did AR think she was talking to? I just can't follow all of this...:waitasec:

Which affidavit are you talking about because I can't find it.

Tom'sGirl
07-03-2008, 11:14 PM
I'm 47, I'm not young.

The question was do LE and news people read here.

The answer is "yes". They generally alert the staff first, but are not required to. We do give this information in the TOS (in case people feel like discussing their own illegal activities - we can't say we didn't warn you).

But we're not going to give details, for obvious reasons.
Thanks adnoid for the info.

pamlet
07-03-2008, 11:14 PM
It could be in the course of the many emails back and forth that "C" accidently mispoke and mentioned he had a daughter name Ashley then convinced her how common that is for a girl's name "in the program" and she never put it together. I still don't think she knew she was talking to MJ in those emails.

I don't think she did either - but maybe she'd been threatened previously with something happening to Ashley ...

dark_shadows
07-03-2008, 11:15 PM
;) gotcha. I am sure they took the shoe laces and probably even the toothbrush from both POS.
Dearest Sleuther,:)
Gagnon is in the very unit that Robert Lee hung himself in the very unit that Gagnon is being held in right now.
Robert Lee was an accomplice Donald Fell.
The 2 carjacked Terry King and her companion Charlie Conway here in Vermont. (2000)They murdered Charlie and then took Ms King across state lines and beat her to death with a rock. Ms King was on her knees praying in a field while they beat her. Fell stated that while Ms King was also praying while they had her in the car on the drive to New York.
So Lee accidently hung himself and Fell is in Indiana on death row.
Fell was the first person in 50 years in Vermont to get the death penalty.

He wrote an apology letter to everyone about the murder that he admitted to.

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/projects/crimebeat/po062005s1.shtml

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

jep0216
07-03-2008, 11:17 PM
OK now you have me wondering and I thought I was sure. WTH? Yes..the affidavit did mention an "Ash". That would be under article #21 of the affidavit where it said:

"Subject: Phones and Stuff
To: Raueldom @yahoo.com
From: Juvenile 1 & Juvenile ] email address]

~snip~

I will keep an eye on him real good, you need to also and you need to keep a real good eye on the phone company. You need to have people working around the F'ing clock on this...Do you understand?? Thats like somebody trying to kill ash or something you would never let that happen to her so don't let this or anything else happen to my dad. I want up dates on everything and i would like them to be good updates please."

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/assets/pdf/BT11210673.PDF

ETA: forgot the link!

Ok in this email Juv 1 is talking to raueldom...whom it has been thought that she thinks is the "head" guy...clearly she has to know this is MJ, but then she says "dont let anything this or else happen to my dad" so maybe she doesn't think its her dad. But who else could she think she was talking to that would care if something happened to Ashley?

Chica
07-03-2008, 11:18 PM
Which affidavit are you talking about because I can't find it.

It is in the affidavit released today. It is on page 10 in the PDF, but numbered page 9 (there is a cover page). It is #21 (b), middle paragraph that starts "C you reawlly need to do...". 'Ash' is located in the the third line from the bottom, fifth word from the left.

RR0004
07-03-2008, 11:18 PM
That makes perfect sense! It is so hard to not read more into things, isn't it? I keep trying to decipher the 'hidden meanings' to statements in the affidavits, and there may very well be no hidden meanings! sheesh...I keep confusing myself!:confused::waitasec::confused:
Ditto here. Then just to make me even more confused I heard on the local news here (NY radio) that the VT Attorney General said that it MAY have been a social network (internet) that lured her to the uncle's house. HUH?

CarpeDiem
07-03-2008, 11:18 PM
That makes perfect sense! It is so hard to not read more into things, isn't it? I keep trying to decipher the 'hidden meanings' to statements in the affidavits, and there may very well be no hidden meanings! sheesh...I keep confusing myself!:confused::waitasec::confused:

I'm wondering why they originally wanted to do this by June 7th (a Saturday). There has to be a reason for that. They said if not then, it would have to wait until atleast the 16th. Is that because Brooke would be going to visit her Dad? When was the last day of school there?

Also, I think SS mentioned about the "phone company". Does that refer to AR's Mom? He mentions that the Mom had been talking to AR's real father (but that could be a lie too). I also wondered if perhaps AR's Mom and Brooke's Mom were also talking, creating a problem in MJ's mind, however imagined it was, with Brooke. I am perplexed by the attitude of AR towards Brooke and I wonder if Brooke was not willing in other things, like touching, or whatever, previously. Was the hatred because of that, because of her innocence, not wanting to talk, look at, be sexually active yet?

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 11:20 PM
I felt very sorry for Savanna when I saw her the other morning on TV. But, I do wonder if she ever had any knowledge of anything 'hinky' going on within the family.With her age, I doubt she knew or was approached even. I would have to believe that she was a "threat" because she was older and held at an arm's length by the "family". She has probably felt like she was an outcast perhaps.

dark_shadows
07-03-2008, 11:20 PM
:clap::clap::clap:

My very dearest Philamena,:blowkiss::blowkiss:
Big big cyber hugs to you my friend!

All my Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Chica
07-03-2008, 11:21 PM
Ok in this email Juv 1 is talking to raueldom...whom it has been thought that she thinks is the "head" guy...clearly she has to know this is MJ, but then she says "dont let anything this or else happen to my dad" so maybe she doesn't think its her dad. But who else could she think she was talking to that would care if something happened to Ashley?

I think Seriously Sleuthing nailed it when she said:
Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching
It could be in the course of the many emails back and forth that "C" accidently mispoke and mentioned he had a daughter name Ashley then convinced her how common that is for a girl's name "in the program" and she never put it together. I still don't think she knew she was talking to MJ in those emails.

concernedperson
07-03-2008, 11:21 PM
Maybe AR was just po'd that nothing had happened to Brooke when she had to endure so much?

jep0216
07-03-2008, 11:24 PM
Ok in this email Juv 1 is talking to raueldom...whom it has been thought that she thinks is the "head" guy...clearly she has to know this is MJ, but then she says "dont let anything this or else happen to my dad" so maybe she doesn't think its her dad. But who else could she think she was talking to that would care if something happened to Ashley?


Just thinking outloud again...we haven't really mentioned ARs real father much. But I think someone said that the affidavit does have something where MJ mentions that the Mom had been talking to AR's real father. Maybe this statement where AR says "you wouldn't want anything to happen to Ash so don't let it to my Dad" is referring to her bio father...which leads me to believe she knew that MJ was the raueldom email. Random question...if MJ and AR lived together, why all the emailing (if AR knew it was MJ)??

CarpeDiem
07-03-2008, 11:24 PM
I felt very sorry for Savanna when I saw her the other morning on TV. But, I do wonder if she ever had any knowledge of anything 'hinky' going on within the family.

Well, it's obvious they weren't close, she is called that c*** Savanna in the emails. She's older though, at work, probably thought it was good for Brooke to have a cousin close to her age to hang out with. It's actually looking like Savanna and Brooke were a lot better than these people, and they didn't like it.

RR0004
07-03-2008, 11:25 PM
I'm 47, I'm not young.

The question was do LE and news people read here.

The answer is "yes". They generally alert the staff first, but are not required to. We do give this information in the TOS (in case people feel like discussing their own illegal activities - we can't say we didn't warn you).

But we're not going to give details, for obvious reasons.
Thanks Adnoid.
FOX should have taken a closer look today. Maybe then they would have reported that the 1992 rape and kidnapping wasn't MJs first offense.

Chica
07-03-2008, 11:26 PM
Maybe AR was just po'd that nothing had happened to Brooke when she had to endure so much?

...Or maybe AR was jealous that Brooke might be brought in to 'Breckenridge' and take the attention away from AR...I think AR was so brainwashed by MJ that she may have even looked forward to her 'training' by MJ...just another possiblity...soooooooo many 'what if's' in this case...not enough facts for my liking!

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 11:27 PM
Maybe AR was just po'd that nothing had happened to Brooke when she had to endure so much?AR didn't consider it as "abuse" or "enduring so much" at that point...in my opinion. Her mind didn't work that way anymore.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 11:30 PM
...Or maybe AR was jealous that Brooke might be brought in to 'Breckenridge' and take the attention away from AR...I think AR was so brainwashed by MJ that she may have even looked forward to her 'training' by MJ...just another possiblity...soooooooo many 'what if's' in this case...not enough facts for my liking!There was never a plan to "bring her in to Breck". There was a plan to abduct/torture/kill her.

But...we do not know that Brooke had not already been a part of everything already.

CarpeDiem
07-03-2008, 11:35 PM
Just thinking outloud again...we haven't really mentioned ARs real father much. But I think someone said that the affidavit does have something where MJ mentions that the Mom had been talking to AR's real father. Maybe this statement where AR says "you wouldn't want anything to happen to Ash so don't let it to my Dad" is referring to her bio father...which leads me to believe she knew that MJ was the raueldom email. Random question...if MJ and AR lived together, why all the emailing (if AR knew it was MJ)??

I doubt now the Mother was talking to the real "Father". It was just something the girl feared, she probably had been told a lot of crap about him over the year's, so that fear was used to manipulate her.

I also don't think AR knew she was corresponding with MJ. I thought SS's idea about where "ash" came from was good and probably is it. The document also says the emails came from two places, his laptop and his computer at work. To think this has been going on for years, LE probably hasn't made it through 6 months of them yet. This girl is obviously quite brainwashed. All of it, just unbelievable. She's having kinky sex with a boyfriend and says she will be doing it with her dad too that night. She's only 14! Ugh.

Chica
07-03-2008, 11:35 PM
There was never a plan to "bring her in to Breck". There was a plan to abduct/torture/kill her.

But...we do not know that Brooke had not already been a part of everything already.

I agree - as far as MJ goes, but there is a possiblity that AR didn't know and/or think MJ would actually go through with killing Brooke. I keep trying to make sense of this when there is NO making sense of any of it...

KOOL LOOK
07-03-2008, 11:35 PM
Okay, after finishing watching megan on the oreilly factor just now, with the male commentator and reading through half of the affidavits and posts to date. Things are changing like zip zap zoop so fast in this case it's absolutely astonishing, never have I ever seen one un-fold with the twists, turns and available evidence as in this case. It's unprecedented.

Jacques was grooming, lying, molesting and raping juvenile 1 since the age of 9 years old and is now 14 years old, being a five year time span. Through this entire time, he has lied to her under the premise that she was a part of a government sex ring, in which she had to be initiated into by criminal methods unbeknowest to her. Jacques continued the lying, grooming, raping as he continued to story growing it more and more over time.

He began contacting her via phone calls, e-mails and in person claiming to be working with the government and others whom she's never met personally but knew Jacques as he is a real blood line relative, (yuck). For five years he has lied. Raped and used her body for his evil devices.

Over time, the step father became aware of such activities, got involved in the porn, raping lying and molesting of her also. So we now have two grown men doing these horrid things to her.

She acquires an age appropriate boyfriend in this time frame, acting out inappropriately sexually with this BF naturally as that's all she's practically ever known. The lie of the government sex ring continued to grow and pilferate to this point in time when Jacques in my opionion grew bored and tired of just her and his wife, his videos, and porno images, and more likely than not molesting other children, but not to this degree of forcible rape.

He then wants Brooke. Brooke wouldn't comply, or Brooke became aware and threatened to rat them out, some kind of threat Brooke imposed, or he wanted her and she wouldn't give in and threatened to tell. So he talks juvenile 1 into helping her get brooke to his sex dungeon and he raped, tortured and murdered her. Juvenile according to her affidavit didn't see brooke after she got her to the sex dungeon of Jacques house, she sat and watched tv, then left at jazcques command to go.

So all of it all this time was and is a lie. This juvenile 1 thought for five years she was a participant member chosen and passed the test of being in a study. Being so young, she didn't know better. I can't believe she never confided in not one soul, not one soul that would have questioned her or others involved and got to the bottom of this atrocity.

Then we have stepfather. He claims to have had sex, (he raped her) with juvenile 1, had porno images per his affidavit, but hadn't harmed Brooke, just help dispose of evidentuary property in the case.

So Juvenile was used and abused for nought, in her eyes, for this was all a made up sick fantasy by Jacques who isn't a part of some big foreign sex snuff sex tape ring for hire to get rich on your lazy evil back. It was a scheme to take what he saw he wanted, and felt entitled too.

Where the Hell is the mothers in this? There ain't no way in Betsies (insert any cuss word you can imagine) they didn't see something, know something. Have red flags, radars, hinky meters going off. Ain't no way they didn't have an opportunity to know something.

Who was doing the laundry at juvenile 1 house? Her, all by herself for the entire family all these years? I doubt that. Ain't no dog on way. The physiological changes that had to occur prematurely in this young child was within itself red flags and evil hinky meters going off. How was she kept from becoming pregnant? Hello! Somebody help me please! I'm about to drive down to vermont and slap the BS and foolishness out the faces of Jacques wife, oh yes, she ain't that blind dumb, and some mothers. Hell, I'm even gonna slap the damn dog. Cuz his butt's in trouble with me too. It goes against nature.

The smells, languages, eye contacts, behaviors, habits, positioning of furniture, videos, electronics and oh yes, the money trails, follow them please!!!!! And I want to know where the monies were coming from in juvenile 1 life? Her mother should and did see this, where would she get money to buy herself certain things that we know any 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 year old would be buying with their hush hush secret evil dirty money.

Burn filth burn.

concernedperson
07-03-2008, 11:35 PM
AR didn't consider it as "abuse" or "enduring so much" at that point...in my opinion. Her mind didn't work that way anymore.

True. I am trying to find some glimmer of hope in a hopeless situation. Actually, I don't feel that PC after reading the affidavits. I think she was complicit even at her young age. I think she used her young age to get a jump start on the complicity. This case horrifies me.

RR0004
07-03-2008, 11:36 PM
Does anyone remember the day that AR gave her statement explaining what transpired on the 25th? The minute I read that I knew Brooke was dead. Can you imagine how law enforcement must have felt? I don't think Brooke's biological father was in the loop...which saddens me.

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 11:39 PM
I agree - as far as MJ goes, but there is a possiblity that AR didn't know and/or think MJ would actually go through with killing Brooke. I keep trying to make sense of this when there is NO making sense of any of it...You hit that nail on the head. There truly is NO making sense of any of it. It is the way our brains work vs. some pedo's brain who could rationalize that any of what he did his whole life was ever OK. His thoughts would never allow us to sleep again and his actions...well...we could never conceive of such. He is pure evil and demented in unspeakable ways.

RR0004
07-03-2008, 11:45 PM
You know why I think he may never, ever talk...they had him nailed and he still didn't give up Brooke. What a POS!!

CarpeDiem
07-03-2008, 11:46 PM
...Or maybe AR was jealous that Brooke might be brought in to 'Breckenridge' and take the attention away from AR...I think AR was so brainwashed by MJ that she may have even looked forward to her 'training' by MJ...just another possiblity...soooooooo many 'what if's' in this case...not enough facts for my liking!

It's hard to figure out wether she was just saying what she had been conditioned to say, what he liked to hear. You know, if these things really happened, the boyfriend spanking her, etc., all the sex in that house she described with him - the bathroom. The alternative, that she was telling the truth, says a good bit about her psyche. The boyfriend, I don't know what to make of him. Geez. :eek:

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 11:52 PM
It's hard to figure out wether she was just saying what she had been conditioned to say, what he liked to hear. You know, if these things really happened, the boyfriend spanking her, etc., all the sex in that house she described with him - the bathroom. The alternative, that she was telling the truth, says a good bit about her psyche. The boyfriend, I don't know what to make of him. Geez. :eek:I must have missed a lot. I didn't read about the bf spanking her, all the sex in the house, the bathroom. What?!

Dante7
07-03-2008, 11:52 PM
just thinking, and maybe I'm confused, and please forgive me if someone else brought this up...


re:the BDSM gear and such - and it's being bought for use on Brooke-

regardless of how much extra cash this chap may be bringing in thru illegal means- would you spend over a grand for something you were only going to use once?


what would this imply?

Do we know of other gear was discovered, or used in past events?

RR0004
07-03-2008, 11:54 PM
It's hard to figure out wether she was just saying what she had been conditioned to say, what he liked to hear. You know, if these things really happened, the boyfriend spanking her, etc., all the sex in that house she described with him - the bathroom. The alternative, that she was telling the truth, says a good bit about her psyche. The boyfriend, I don't know what to make of him. Geez. :eek:
CP...where did you hear this about the bf?

Dante7
07-03-2008, 11:57 PM
What would make you think that this was for personal viewing as a snuff film?

I didn't, I was just commenting on the use of the term. "snuff" Technically, to qualify as "snuff", it would have had to have been made for distribution. If he was just filming it for personal use, it'd just be a trophy.

One would have different implications than the other, yes?


By the way, Welcome to WS, Dante7!

Thank you. Nice to be here! :)

SeriouslySearching
07-03-2008, 11:58 PM
just thinking, and maybe I'm confused, and please forgive me if someone else brought this up...


re:the BDSM gear and such - and it's being bought for use on Brooke-

regardless of how much extra cash this chap may be bringing in thru illegal means- would you spend over a grand for something you were only going to use once?


what would this imply?

Do we know of other gear was discovered, or used in past events?If there was evidence of this, it hasn't been released. It is possible that MJ and Denise were into that kind of thing which would have made it easier for him to order such. You would think that a grand plus change would have been seen by Denise on their bank statements and he could have told her they were for themselves to use. It is difficult to understand why he had them delivered to the house if he were worried about Denise finding out...but they would both be at work and AR would be home to get that delivery. Doesn't explain the CC statement tho.

Asking if an abductor/torturer/murderer would spend over a grand for his "big finish"...well...I can say the answer is...YES, he would. He is seeing this fantasy in his head for God knows how many years and he is going to see it thru to the end. He would spend any amount of money to make it happen and take any risk for it. Just like he did.

RR0004
07-03-2008, 11:58 PM
just thinking, and maybe I'm confused, and please forgive me if someone else brought this up...


re:the BDSM gear and such - and it's being bought for use on Brooke-

regardless of how much extra cash this chap may be bringing in thru illegal means- would you spend over a grand for something you were only going to use once?


what would this imply?

Do we know of other gear was discovered, or used in past events?
I think this guy's illness was escalating out of control...taking more and more to "satisfy" him...money may have meant nothing to him. I believe it was SS who said...this was all (the murder) too easy for him...may not be his first time...and if he wasn't caught...would no doubt not be his last.

CarpeDiem
07-03-2008, 11:59 PM
CP...where did you hear this about the bf?

Am I not reading the bottom of page 10 correctly? It's possible I'm confused on who AR is talking about. Do you and SS have a blacked out copy in that portion?

RR0004
07-03-2008, 11:59 PM
Oh...and welcome Dante!

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 12:02 AM
I think this guy's illness was escalating out of control...taking more and more to "satisfy" him...money may have meant nothing to him. I believe it was SS who said...this was all (the murder) too easy for him...may not be his first time...and if he wasn't caught...would no doubt not be his last.I don't like calling what he does an "illness". He has no illness. HE himself is a disease.

RR0004
07-04-2008, 12:03 AM
Am I not reading the bottom of page 10 correctly? It's possible I'm confused on who AR is talking about. Do you and SS have a blacked out copy in that portion?
I can't find anything.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 12:05 AM
Am I not reading the bottom of page 10 correctly? It's possible I'm confused on who AR is talking about. Do you and SS have a blacked out copy in that portion?Carpe! I guess I do!! I never even thought about that! Sorry, Carpe! (I know we butt heads, but it is only on opinions. I still like ya.) Thanks for reminding me I have not seen the real version yet.

ETA: Those black spaces looked so small that I had NO idea I had missed SO much!

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 12:07 AM
OK So fill us in...

Tom'sGirl
07-04-2008, 12:07 AM
I must have missed a lot. I didn't read about the bf spanking her, all the sex in the house, the bathroom. What?!
Oh yes SS, it was there, and very graphic!

CarpeDiem
07-04-2008, 12:10 AM
I can't find anything.

On the bottom of page 10 in my early copy with very little blackout, there is a copy of a very sexually explicit Email from AR about sex with the boyfriend. It's 1.5 lines long, includes spanking. If you don't see that, your copy must have had it blacked out. :confused:

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 12:11 AM
Oh yes SS, it was there, and very graphic!:doh:
Well...#@% %$#^@^ How can I come up with an educated opinion if I don't know all the @#$ %#@! facts? (Going to my corner now)

Chica
07-04-2008, 12:11 AM
SS - if you would like me to email you a copy of the first version of the last affidavit, PM me with your email address...I will email you the PDF.

CarpeDiem
07-04-2008, 12:11 AM
Carpe! I guess I do!! I never even thought about that! Sorry, Carpe! (I know we butt heads, but it is only on opinions. I still like ya.) Thanks for reminding me I have not seen the real version yet.

ETA: Those black spaces looked so small that I had NO idea I had missed SO much!

We disagree a lot, but I also have a lot of respect for you. That makes the difference. :blowkiss:

RR0004
07-04-2008, 12:12 AM
I don't like calling what he does an "illness". He has no illness. HE himself is a disease.
And like all diseases, he should be eradicated from the face of the earth.

RR0004
07-04-2008, 12:13 AM
On the bottom of page 10 in my early copy with very little blackout, there is a copy of a very sexually explicit Email from AR about sex with the boyfriend. It's 1.5 lines long, includes spanking. If you don't see that, your copy must have had it blacked out. :confused:
Yup...blacked out.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 12:13 AM
And like all diseases, he should be eradicated from the face of the earth.I hear they have a shot for that. hehehe

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 12:14 AM
:blowkiss: Likewise! We disagree a lot, but I also have a lot of respect for you. That makes the difference. :blowkiss:

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 12:14 AM
OK so someone give me the fast version. She was bragging about having sex all over the house with her BF to which persona?

RR0004
07-04-2008, 12:24 AM
Yes, please...I don't think I can read another "affidavit".

CarpeDiem
07-04-2008, 12:25 AM
She was bragging about having sex all over the house with her BF to which persona?

It was to Rauel. It was the bathroom (not completely clear on wether she was with Juvenile 2 or dad there but I think it is Juvenile 2) and I don't know which room the spanking episode was in, she doesn't say. She says that Juvenile 2 spanked her more than usual. I don't think I can post her exact words of that line and a half without getting banned.

dark_shadows
07-04-2008, 12:25 AM
:doh:
Well...#@% %$#^@^ How can I come up with an educated opinion if I don't know all the @#$ %#@! facts? (Going to my corner now)
Dearest SS,:blowkiss:,
I agree with you.
How can anyone study the original affidavit when it is not posted on the affidavit thread.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

KOOL LOOK
07-04-2008, 12:27 AM
I don't like calling what he does an "illness". He has no illness. HE himself is a disease.

I agree one hundred percent. I hope we all don't mistakenly through confusion, rushing, being tired, as these facts and evidence comes pouring in by the bucket loads, don't type the wrong description here thus giving him some kind of leeway, excuse or sympathy. It is not a sickness or disease, he is infested with invited and well received cowardly demons from Hell that dwell out in empty open spaces waiting and entering into people like him who serve the father of death and darkness. He is of the dark side.

People, this is a real physical presence of demons taking a living life form and using the body of it with his help and willingness to step into this side of Heaven and Earth, he is not of us. Understand that.

Let me have a go at him. I pray right now that only those equipped and knowledgeable in dealing with these forces have full authority, care custody and control over him from this point onward til his dead body is given up to the grave and his soul enters the lower belly underneath Earth separating him far far away across the divide he will never be able to cross back over and come near mankind and Heaven.

This appears to be premeditated, concerning Brooke, not to mention the plot and planning concerning juvenile 1. I just don't look for him to be around much longer, imo.

Peace everyone!

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 12:34 AM
I agree one hundred percent. I hope we all don't mistakenly through confusion, rushing, being tired, as these facts and evidence comes pouring in by the bucket loads, don't type the wrong description here thus giving him some kind of leeway, excuse or sympathy. It is not a sickness or disease, he is infested with invited and well received cowardly demons from Hell that dwell out in empty open spaces waiting and entering into people like him who serve the father of death and darkness. He is of the dark side.

People, this is a real physical presence of demons taking a living life form and using the body of it with his help and willingness to step into this side of Heaven and Earth, he is not of us. Understand that.

Let me have a go at him. I pray right now that only those equipped and knowledgeable in dealing with these forces have full authority, care custody and control over him from this point onward til his dead body is given up to the grave and his soul enters the lower belly underneath Earth separating him far far away across the divide he will never be able to cross back over and come near mankind and Heaven.

This appears to be premeditated, concerning Brooke, not to mention the plot and planning concerning juvenile 1. I just don't look for him to be around much longer, imo.

Peace everyone!Not a problem. I have him covered, Look. :)

Tom'sGirl
07-04-2008, 12:37 AM
Dearest SS,:blowkiss:,
I agree with you.
How can anyone study the original affidavit when it is not posted on the affidavit thread.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
The 'ORIGINAL' pdf file is no longer available d_s. They have since redacted much of it here and there!

RR0004
07-04-2008, 12:42 AM
I agree one hundred percent. I hope we all don't mistakenly through confusion, rushing, being tired, as these facts and evidence comes pouring in by the bucket loads, don't type the wrong description here thus giving him some kind of leeway, excuse or sympathy. It is not a sickness or disease, he is infested with invited and well received cowardly demons from Hell that dwell out in empty open spaces waiting and entering into people like him who serve the father of death and darkness. He is of the dark side.

People, this is a real physical presence of demons taking a living life form and using the body of it with his help and willingness to step into this side of Heaven and Earth, he is not of us. Understand that.

Let me have a go at him. I pray right now that only those equipped and knowledgeable in dealing with these forces have full authority, care custody and control over him from this point onward til his dead body is given up to the grave and his soul enters the lower belly underneath Earth separating him far far away across the divide he will never be able to cross back over and come near mankind and Heaven.

This appears to be premeditated, concerning Brooke, not to mention the plot and planning concerning juvenile 1. I just don't look for him to be around much longer, imo.

Peace everyone!
Which, no doubt, is the reason we good people cannot fathom what has transpired.
I pray for Brooke.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 12:46 AM
I didn't, I was just commenting on the use of the term. "snuff" Technically, to qualify as "snuff", it would have had to have been made for distribution. If he was just filming it for personal use, it'd just be a trophy.

One would have different implications than the other, yes?




Thank you. Nice to be here! :)Hey, I am tough on all newbies. LOL I just treat you like everyone else is all. Jump back in here! I like the way you think. You are right...if he used it for personal it is a trophy. The only reason I don't think he used it for personal is the hoards of child porn that Ray Gagnon already confessed to having. My first reaction is that he got most of it from Jacques. RG also admitted that some of that was from AR and the BF. It tells me a lot of "performance sex" on film is going on with MJ.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 12:48 AM
The 'ORIGINAL' pdf file is no longer available d_s. They have since redacted much of it here and there!All I can say is that the media/LE are stupid heads. (Was that nice enough?!) However, you are the Queen of Diamonds, TG! Hugs~

CarpeDiem
07-04-2008, 12:49 AM
It tells me a lot of "performance sex" on film is going on with MJ.

Oh yeah. I'm thinking he used it to trade with other's of his type on the internet. And now that LE has his computers, his contacts, I hope they nail every last one of them.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 01:00 AM
Oh yeah. I'm thinking he used it to trade with other's of his type on the internet. And now that LE has his computers, his contacts, I hope they nail every last one of them.I could not agree with you more there!! They are on the "hit list" of the FBI now!

Makes me want to start some sort of "hit list" of my own. When we are looking for children that is always in the back of my mind. We do not dare venture into that territory. I know I never go to porn to find our missing...others might. I would like to get together a select group and have our credentials screened so we can go look for them. To me, we are dedicated and look in every place except there. We are leaving a stone unturned.

philamena
07-04-2008, 01:06 AM
Just finished reading the affidavits. I don't know when I've felt this sick. (Thinking couey and duncan here. :furious:)
I'm with Kool Look on this one.
Kill uncle pos. :steamed:
Kill stepdad pos.:steamed:

(Before killing shove one of those things they ordered up their wazzzo.)

Immediately remove juvy 1 from her home.
If, what she told LE is true, she's been raped and forced into sexual abuse for 6 years. She needs to be permanently removed from her mother's home and placed in a facility for longggggg term care, counseling, etc.:praying:
The mothers.....arrest them. They know a lot. They didn't try to protect Brooke and they may be in this up to their eyeballs.

It will save the state a ton of money, and members here a lot of heartache, if these creeps die before their trial. :whipper::dervish:

What a bunch of sick, sick freaks.

philamena
07-04-2008, 01:18 AM
I had another thought. The first thing the media does is show either live footage or taped footage of someone in this type of case. As far as Raymond Gagnon goes, we've seen nothing but a sketch. I bet there' a reason LE isn't releasing his face yet.

Chica
07-04-2008, 01:20 AM
I had another thought. The first thing the media does is show either live footage or taped footage of someone in this type of case. As far as Raymond Gagnon goes, we've seen nothing but a sketch. I bet there' a reason LE isn't releasing his face yet.

I agree...I don't recall a previous case where it took this long to see a photo.:rolleyes:

KOOL LOOK
07-04-2008, 01:29 AM
Which, no doubt, is the reason we good people cannot fathom what has transpired.
I pray for Brooke.

Be Blessed Assured Brooke Bennett is in Paradise, there is no more torture, but loving happiness forever and ever. Bless you all, I have to go, hubby is home, I'll see you wonderful people in the morn. Night night.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 01:34 AM
I agree...I don't recall a previous case where it took this long to see a photo.:rolleyes:Since I have not wanted to see his face, it didn't bother me...but now that you mentioned it...WTH? We have a a guy that is in cahoots with this convicted sex offender who obviously abducted/raped/killed this child and they are hiding his face?!?! WTH?!

I did see the sketch and it was NEVER from the front. So why are they hiding his face? He can very well be a Federal witness. We do know that he is spilling his guts so far (If what the affidavit says is only the tip of that iceberg).

Are the FBI so naive to think that this man just did a small portion or what?! No way! He knows the real dirt here. So they could be trying to keep him from the media and public. He is singing like a caged animal which we already knew.

becca
07-04-2008, 01:35 AM
Just finished reading the affidavits. I don't know when I've felt this sick. (Thinking couey and duncan here. :furious:)
I'm with Kool Look on this one.
Kill uncle pos. :steamed:
Kill stepdad pos.:steamed:

(Before killing shove one of those things they ordered up their wazzzo.)

Immediately remove juvy 1 from her home.
If, what she told LE is true, she's been raped and forced into sexual abuse for 6 years. She needs to be permanently removed from her mother's home and placed in a facility for longggggg term care, counseling, etc.:praying:
The mothers.....arrest them. They know a lot. They didn't try to protect Brooke and they may be in this up to their eyeballs.

It will save the state a ton of money, and members here a lot of heartache, if these creeps die before their trial. :whipper::dervish:

What a bunch of sick, sick freaks.
I so agree with all of this. The mothers were not doing their jobs which is to protect their children. One has been murdered and the other abused beyond belief.... what kind of mother doesn't see the signs? One that is only worried about herself.
I'm so angry at these women... they should be in a cell too.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 01:37 AM
My thoughts...Let him talk THEN fry him along with that other freak!!

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 01:47 AM
I so agree with all of this. The mothers were not doing their jobs which is to protect their children. One has been murdered and the other abused beyond belief.... what kind of mother doesn't see the signs? One that is only worried about herself.
I'm so angry at these women... they should be in a cell too.I agree! WHERE were the mothers and WHAT were they thinking?! I am particulary disgusted with Denise. How dare she see all those things and end up in therapy with AR?! This tells me that that SHE is the among the warped, too. She was probably concerned that her daughter was "unruly".

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 01:49 AM
I must say, today I do feel more compassion for Brooke's mom. Don't take it to mean a lot of...just some. The anger is wearing off and more facts are coming in.

Chica
07-04-2008, 01:51 AM
I so agree with all of this. The mothers were not doing their jobs which is to protect their children. One has been murdered and the other abused beyond belief.... what kind of mother doesn't see the signs? One that is only worried about herself.
I'm so angry at these women... they should be in a cell too.

I still think (read: HOPE) there is a possibility that when Denise walked in on AR and MJ - that may have been the turning point of this whole thing. That may have been a fairly recent occurrance, and it could be the very reason why Denise and AR are attending counseling...it may be wishful thinking on my part, and I may just be naive about this, but I just can't imagine any mom walking in on what is OBVIOUS to all of us and not picking up on or doing anything about what she MUST know is going on...I don't want to believe any mom could shrug it off, BUT then again, why would MJ still be living in the home? I want more information so i can have an INFORMED opinion about the whole ordeal...I think this is the most unbelievable case I can recall...it is so 'far out' that I can't even fathom it...

CarpeDiem
07-04-2008, 01:59 AM
He's probably going to plead, there will be no trial and it will be years, if ever, that we know the whole story - what Denise really knew, what the situation was day to day in that home. Answers to all of the rest of it. Won't the fed's avoid putting a girl who is still only 14, on the stand to testify about these details and be cross examined?

Vegas Bride
07-04-2008, 02:02 AM
I am truely sickened by all that has come out, it's just not comprehensible how such evil walks the earth. I'm hoping to see a new video showing the uncle with his face beaten to a bloody pulp, unable to walk so he's crawling just like the slug that he is.
My appologies to the real slugs!

VB

CarpeDiem
07-04-2008, 02:05 AM
I'm hoping to hear *someone* is being charged with murder. It's odd to me that hasn't happened yet.

Edited to add, I just read Jacques is charged under a federal law that provides for the death penalty in a kidnapping resulting in a child's death. So, it sounds all inclusive.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 02:07 AM
I still think (read: HOPE) there is a possibility that when Denise walked in on AR and MJ - that may have been the turning point of this whole thing. That may have been a fairly recent occurrance, and it could be the very reason why Denise and AR are attending counseling...it may be wishful thinking on my part, and I may just be naive about this, but I just can't imagine any mom walking in on what is OBVIOUS to all of us and not picking up on or doing anything about what she MUST know is going on...I don't want to believe any mom could shrug it off, BUT then again, why would MJ still be living in the home? I want more information so i can have an INFORMED opinion about the whole ordeal...I think this is the most unbelievable case I can recall...it is so 'far out' that I can't even fathom it...Now that is a thought that is very recent. Yeah..well...If I saw that in MY house...there would BE some retribution (If was in my house, he would probably be dead). I would TELL someone that my daughter was being raped. So to say that them going to "counseling" is sufficient to me is not enough.

Vegas Bride
07-04-2008, 02:11 AM
I'm hoping to hear *someone* is being charged with murder. It's odd to me that hasn't happened yet.

I think they have to determine the cause of death first. :(

VB

CarpeDiem
07-04-2008, 02:16 AM
I think they have to determine the cause of death first. :(

VB

I hate to say this, but it sounds in the articles as if a visual ID could not even be made. I think there must have been a great deal of desecration by the murderer of her remains.:(

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 02:18 AM
I do not expect they will be able to say more than she was strangled or cut.

Chica
07-04-2008, 02:22 AM
Now that is a thought that is very recent. Yeah..well...If I saw that in MY house...there would BE some retribution (If was in my house, he would probably be dead). I would TELL someone that my daughter was being raped. So to say that them going to "counseling" is sufficient to me is not enough.

I'm not saying counseling is sufficient by any means. I'm pointing out that with all the disgusting information we have received, we really don't know enough to base an opinion on. I can't tell you how many times I get so angry about this and point the finger at the mom, aunt, cousin, etc., but then my mind goes back to the fact that we really don't know very much at all about this. . . it is all so disturbing...unbelievable...

I can honestly say I have never been this 'back and forth' about a case. We usually get more of the facts up front where we can make an informed decision about how we feel about the case. With this case, just when I don't think there can possibly be any additional information, a flood of new (but incomplete) information is released.

Vegas Bride
07-04-2008, 02:24 AM
Yes, since he'd had this all planned for some weeks he could have had a lot of things set up there already for disposing of her body, the hole dug, even chemicals there on hand to help.
Just reading the news reports has affected me so much, I can not fathom what the authorities who are dealing with everything first hand must be going through, they all need our good thoughts and prayers to get through this.

VB

RR0004
07-04-2008, 02:34 AM
Didn't someone in LE say that he couldn't state it was a homicide...which surprised me really. Oh, I know they're awaiting autopsy results, but you can't visually see that there was foul play involved? Hmmm...They've played this close to the chest. I think they want to make sure this is done by the book so as to not compromise anything when they go for the dealth penalty.

It was something like this:

With autopsy results still pending, prosecutors said they could not say that Brooke was murdered. If she was, U.S. Attorney Tom Anderson was asked if he would seek the death penalty.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 02:37 AM
I'm not saying counseling is sufficient by any means. I'm pointing out that with all the disgusting information we have received, we really don't know enough to base an opinion on. I can't tell you how many times I get so angry about this and point the finger at the mom, aunt, cousin, etc., but then my mind goes back to the fact that we really don't know very much at all about this. . . it is all so disturbing...unbelievable...

I can honestly say I have never been this 'back and forth' about a case. We usually get more of the facts up front where we can make an informed decision about how we feel about the case. With this case, just when I don't think there can possibly be any additional information, a flood of new (but incomplete) information is released.No...I am very sure if I saw what Denise saw...I would turn that SOB in and dial 911.

This is only the worst case we are hearing about and only because a child was missing and is now dead. I keep seeing time after time she excuses herself from turning him in. I do NOT understand.

RR0004
07-04-2008, 02:42 AM
Just wanted to say good-night and wish everyone a peaceful holiday!

Thanks once again for all your hard work.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 02:44 AM
Just wanted to say good-night and wish everyone a peaceful holiday!

Thanks once again for all your hard work.G'nite, RR! Thank you!

Amster
07-04-2008, 02:50 AM
I just realized that I have saved the affidavit from today before all the stuff was blacked out. It's on my desktop in PDF.....if there is some way to link it on the affidavits thread, I will.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 02:54 AM
Amster! You are brilliant! Just hang on to it as we don't have the room here for it to be re-published. Oh, but you can answer questions. :)

SuziQ
07-04-2008, 02:55 AM
I just realized that I have saved the affidavit from today before all the stuff was blacked out. It's on my desktop in PDF.....if there is some way to link it on the affidavits thread, I will.

Thank you Amster.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 02:56 AM
I didn't realize earlier that I lost a major part of the discussion because of the blackout version. I think they should just put out what LE puts out. Why do they vary? Media is so narrowminded sometimes. They should just report the truth as it is.

adnoid
07-04-2008, 03:03 AM
Dearest SS,:blowkiss:,
I agree with you.
How can anyone study the original affidavit when it is not posted on the affidavit thread.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

It's in the ones I posted links to in that thread.

It's disgusting.

Amster
07-04-2008, 03:04 AM
Amster! You are brilliant! Just hang on to it as we don't have the room here for it to be re-published. Oh, but you can answer questions. :)

Well....ok....but, that means I will have to LOOK at it! ugh

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 03:06 AM
Brooke. She is why we are here. I want to say about her that even tho I never met her, I appreciate the way she loved her father's family. I see the smiles on her face when she is with them. My favorite picture is of her in the flowered straw hat leaning against Jim. The smile says it all. She was so happy to be with her dad. That is the memory I want and hope that is the memory her father takes away from this horror. I pray that someday he has some peace, but I know now that it is going to be far from difficult for him. Bless James Bennett.

Amster
07-04-2008, 03:06 AM
It's in the ones I posted links to in that thread.

It's disgusting.

OH! It's there? I didn't realize that. Very good..

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 03:07 AM
It's in the ones I posted links to in that thread.

It's disgusting.I agree...I didn't even try 'em out. I should be ashamed. Thanks again, Ad. :)

CarpeDiem
07-04-2008, 03:11 AM
I didn't realize earlier that I lost a major part of the discussion because of the blackout version. I think they should just put out what LE puts out. Why do they vary? Media is so narrowminded sometimes. They should just report the truth as it is.

I think someone leaked that document to the media, probably at the courthouse. No one on the outside was probably suppossed to see that document without major parts blackened. There was probably a flurry of calls from LE to the Media to take it down and replace with the redacted copy.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 03:19 AM
This is an ugly case no matter how you look at it. We are getting inundated day after day with horrific details, but they took us to what we wanted...to find Brooke Bennett.

It is overwhelming the circumstances that brought us here in a week. The reality of what has happened is coming out slowly and we are devasted by it alone. We haven't even reached the stage of where we know how, why, or other things. This is one of the most difficult cases I have experienced here.

Preventable? Yes! Or is it? This is a question we must ask ourselves. We do think we have children that would be immune to all this...but would we really? Are we immune to this happening? Time for us to look at the people in our lives and around our families. Be sure.

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 03:21 AM
I think someone leaked that document to the media, probably at the courthouse. No one on the outside was probably suppossed to see that document without major parts blackened. There was probably a flurry of calls from LE to the Media to take it down and replace with the redacted copy.Yes...is what I would have done if I had been working for them at the time. It was the "right" thing to do. (People should weigh the public's right to know against what they can live with.) There could be so many more victims that could come forward and we could protect...even if they did not know they needed it. Like AR. She had no idea what she had been told most of her life was not true. Nothing was true. So how do you report that if you gave no one any facts?

txsvicki
07-04-2008, 03:27 AM
I'm hoping to hear *someone* is being charged with murder. It's odd to me that hasn't happened yet.

Edited to add, I just read Jacques is charged under a federal law that provides for the death penalty in a kidnapping resulting in a child's death. So, it sounds all inclusive.


I haven't and don't think I can read all the sick details on these threads, but did read earlier that Jacques had been charged and sent to prison in '93 for raping an older teen. Why the he$$ were any of Brooke's relatives allowing some rapist to come anywhere near her or any other kids?

SeriouslySearching
07-04-2008, 03:35 AM
I haven't and don't think I can read all the sick details on these threads, but did read earlier that Jacques had been charged and sent to prison in '93 for raping an older teen. Why the he$$ were any of Brooke's relatives allowing some rapist to come anywhere near her or any other kids?We still haven't figured that out. Money doesn't seem to be the answer which would be so much easier. However, for the perp/perps money could be a big part of it.

Liz
07-04-2008, 05:30 AM
It's in the ones I posted links to in that thread.

It's disgusting.

That one's blacked out, too.

bdmama
07-04-2008, 08:07 AM
Hmmmm, maybe gthe SOB got the money for his sex machine from good ol George W's stimulus plan....

luthersmama
07-04-2008, 08:13 AM
I'm hoping to hear *someone* is being charged with murder. It's odd to me that hasn't happened yet.

Edited to add, I just read Jacques is charged under a federal law that provides for the death penalty in a kidnapping resulting in a child's death. So, it sounds all inclusive.

There's no rush. Brooke has been found and he is in jail. Better to take it slow and get it right. It isn't odd at all - they are just being careful.

bdmama
07-04-2008, 08:43 AM
A.R's Myspace...its private though

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=214371418

busters_mummy
07-04-2008, 08:44 AM
I became aware of Brooke's disappearance via WS & have been waking up every morning checking Fox News & WS for updates since she went missing. Was desperately sad to learn she had been found dead yesterday but it was looking like that would be the outcome after MJ's record became public knowledge.

I just read the Affidavits and I just want to go in my Garden & vomit now.
Feel desperately sorry for Brooke's paternal Family & I just hope the foul, disgusting non-human who did this to this child fears for his life every single day he is in prison the way he made these babies fear & suffer.

God bless you Brooke, I hope you are at peace now.

adnoid
07-04-2008, 08:54 AM
That one's blacked out, too.

http://www.websleuths.com/adnoid/bennett/Brooke%20Bennett%20Affidavit%20Jul%203%20emails.pd f

There are some things marked through, yes, but not the big blocks blacked out like other versions have.

gigi2009
07-04-2008, 08:57 AM
Good morning! I'm new here but have been glued to reading everyone's theories and discussions. I'm really impressed with this site and would like to throw in a thought or two.

If MJ and AR were emailing and texting each other, wouldn't it be reasonable to think that they also Instant Messaged each other? MJ also could've IM'ed under one of his personas as well to further convince AR to do his bidding. I'm also struck by a phrase in one of the affidavits quoting "That was a good idea you had, but it took me and C a lot of begging and pleading to get them to agree. At the moment the committee doesn't like you too much!" It appears to me that she was being threatened to be "replaced" in the program perhaps replaced by Brooke. Which would cause AR to become very jealous. AR thinking her only allies being MJ and C. So Breckenridge wants Brooke but MJ and C want her--am I making sense? So this is how they come up with their plan. In AR's mind she wants to hold on to what she has. She is 14 and has been under MJ's control for 5 years and is now going to be cast aside. Too far fetched? I mean reasonably entire groups of adults have been convinced to commit mass suicide so how easy would it be to manipulate a 14 year old into thinking she was on her way out? AR seemed to be very isolated and very dependent on pleasing MJ which could explain her reluctance and lying to LE.

dottierainbow
07-04-2008, 09:00 AM
Welcome Gigi to Websleuths! I agree with you 100%.Good morning! I'm new here but have been glued to reading everyone's theories and discussions. I'm really impressed with this site and would like to throw in a thought or two.

If MJ and AR were emailing and texting each other, wouldn't it be reasonable to think that they also Instant Messaged each other? MJ also could've IM'ed under one of his personas as well to further convince AR to do his bidding. I'm also struck by a phrase in one of the affidavits quoting "That was a good idea you had, but it took me and C a lot of begging and pleading to get them to agree. At the moment the committee doesn't like you too much!" It appears to me that she was being threatened to be "replaced" in the program perhaps replaced by Brooke. Which would cause AR to become very jealous. AR thinking her only allies being MJ and C. So Breckenridge wants Brooke but MJ and C want her--am I making sense? So this is how they come up with their plan. In AR's mind she wants to hold on to what she has. She is 14 and has been under MJ's control for 5 years and is now going to be cast aside. Too far fetched? I mean reasonably entire groups of adults have been convinced to commit mass suicide so how easy would it be to manipulate a 14 year old into thinking she was on her way out? AR seemed to be very isolated and very dependent on pleasing MJ which could explain her reluctance and lying to LE.

gigi2009
07-04-2008, 09:16 AM
Thankyou Dottierainbow!

I was also chewing on the convienance store which of course was to establish an alibi. I think they told Brooke that Juv2 was supposed to meet up with her there and perhaps that's why she appeared with the arms crossed because he wasn't there? So they MJ,AR and Brooke drive to the store, MJ says " I'll run in with you, I need coffee and smokes." She walks around, doesn't see juv2. Arms crossed. Hence MJ telling clerk about friend and if they don't come could she use the phone? So when they start walking out MJ says "Why don't you see if he's waiting over there and I'll swing by and get you if he's not there?"

gigi2009
07-04-2008, 09:21 AM
Okay so now Juv2 isn't there, MJ and AR tell her well let's go back to the house and see if he called or left a message. After a while, MJ heads upstairs. How does he get Brooke to go upstairs? Was the computer upstairs? Maybe MJ said oh hey JUV2 sent a email come up and read it. Brooke was under the impression that her and AR were going to get together with the boys. MJ was just giving them a lift around town. Not knowing that it was a setup.

nanandjim
07-04-2008, 09:36 AM
I still think (read: HOPE) there is a possibility that when Denise walked in on AR and MJ - that may have been the turning point of this whole thing. That may have been a fairly recent occurrance, and it could be the very reason why Denise and AR are attending counseling...it may be wishful thinking on my part, and I may just be naive about this, but I just can't imagine any mom walking in on what is OBVIOUS to all of us and not picking up on or doing anything about what she MUST know is going on...I don't want to believe any mom could shrug it off, BUT then again, why would MJ still be living in the home? I want more information so i can have an INFORMED opinion about the whole ordeal...I think this is the most unbelievable case I can recall...it is so 'far out' that I can't even fathom it...
You know, you may be right. In the emails, it mentions that Denise is acting "*****y" towards MJ and that she is accepting calls from ex-husband (AR's father). I wonder if Denise was talking to ex-husband, getting some advice about the situation. It also does mention something about counseling. MJ may have still been there because only his name is on the house. For some reason, she may not have wanted to call police because I am certain that both AR and MJ were denying that anything ever transpired...

Dante7
07-04-2008, 09:37 AM
This is a huge if...but Ray Gagnon mentioning the Russian child porn ring to me was no mistake on his part. I think it was a clue for LE. If he and MJ were doing business with them, we are talking serious threats against them for nonpayment or for not producing what they promise, imo.

Now, is this in the recent affidavit, or does this refer to the reference to Russian child porn on his 'puter? Do we have any evidence of his connection to these people besides just as a consumer?


After seeing the machine, I think he very well could have produced a snuff film and shipped it off in the time after her disappearance before LE got to him.

Possible, but, again, there's never been any real evidence of snuff films existing aside from as an urban legend. Trophy films, yes, but not proper snuff.

But I'll gladly accept it if anyone here can prove me incorrect on this.

And still, the machine (I missed to link to se what it was- anyone got that?) has me wondering- do we have any precedent for MJ using BDSM gear (mainly on this scale) in his home life or as part of this Breckinridge thing prior to this?

The "Big Finish" idea you'd mentioned does sound possible, but I still remain skeptical, mainly due to the sheer scale in terms of expense and lack of ability to conceal. He's shown a small degree of caution in everything else, even if it was rather ineptly-executed caution, so unless he just went totally over-the-top nutzoid and threw all caution to the winds, I still find myself wondering if this had further significance. Again, I welcome the opportunity for someone here to prove me incorrect. :)

Dante7
07-04-2008, 09:43 AM
Oh..he is definitely linked to this.

Possible, or maybe he's just an idiot. How much solid info do we really have on this end of things?

Dante7
07-04-2008, 09:45 AM
The money will be found with the distributor so while I used to think it was Gagnon...now I am not so sure.

yeah- his sharing in the wealth would depend on his role. MJ seems to have the largest part here so far as we know.


Is there a 3rd party involved here that they don't know about yet? A "runner" of sorts with the product and the cash?

Do we still have anything regarding the alleged third man Juv1 mentioned?

adnoid
07-04-2008, 09:45 AM
Interesting quote here - from someone who claims to be MJ's former probation officer:

I was Michael Jacques Probation Officer for a number of years...His present situation was highly predictable, Iím sorry to say. I retired in 2002, and stil have bad dreams about him, aggravated of course by the current situation. (http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/03/once-a-pedophile-always-a-pedophile/#comment-8092)

Beth Engleman
07-04-2008, 09:51 AM
I haven't and don't think I can read all the sick details on these threads, but did read earlier that Jacques had been charged and sent to prison in '93 for raping an older teen. Why the he$$ were any of Brooke's relatives allowing some rapist to come anywhere near her or any other kids?

Because in some families the women will accept a man for what he can provide and overlook a few flaws. Women with low self esteem who feel that ANY man is better than none.

Paying the bills and keeping the family together no matter how sick the situation might be, these women learn to accept anything....even murder rather than fight for the safety of the family.

I blame the women and other family members in this family who allowed these men access to the children. They should be prosecuted right along with the men.
I have no compassion nor sympathy whatsoever for them.

Dante7
07-04-2008, 09:52 AM
I have no doubt there are more minor victims. MJ is pure evil and I think they should be comparing his DNA in every case across the country.

At the very least for states he's lived in or spent extended periods of time in.


I also think that it is not the first time he has killed. He was too comfortable doing all of this. The planning, the involvement of AR, RG, and the BF...plus ordering his torture "chamber", the orchestration of the abduction etc.. It seems to be too involved for an amateur.


True. He's been at this for some time, and if one does anything for a length of time, one will learn more, expand and branch out (look at hobbyists for a good example of that).

We've seen and account of his mentioning having killed before, but have no solid evidence for it yet. Still, I wouldn't rule it out.

Dante7
07-04-2008, 09:57 AM
No, he wouldn't! He needs to come up with answers to hundreds of thousands of questions before they stick the needle in his arm. He will do everyone a favor by coming completely clean about every sick and demented thing he has ever done in his lifetime. People deserve answers. He deserves torture plus more. He would be the only one to benefit if he offed himself.


Precisely! He needs to spill everything he knows- operations, resources, persons involved, more victims (I still have trouble believing that over all this time, given the implied scale of this thing, Juv1 was the only victim).


Lethal injection...goodness our execution methods don't match the enormity of the crimes involved some times. If I had my way this would start with a scalpel, a blowtorch, a pair of pliers and a copy of Krousher's "Physical Interrogation Techniques" and move forwards from there. Mere death would end his suffering too quickly.

SieSie
07-04-2008, 09:58 AM
I could not agree with you more there!! They are on the "hit list" of the FBI now!

Makes me want to start some sort of "hit list" of my own. When we are looking for children that is always in the back of my mind. We do not dare venture into that territory. I know I never go to porn to find our missing...others might. I would like to get together a select group and have our credentials screened so we can go look for them. To me, we are dedicated and look in every place except there. We are leaving a stone unturned.
Hiya, SS! :seeya:

I wouldn't be able to look at the child porn to be of any help, but when I read your post, I had to comment that I'm scared sometimes just clicking on people's MySpaces and related links!! I checked out the extremerestraints site last night (where MJ bought his sick stuff) and was shocked! I didn't think I was THAT naiive, but WOW! :eek: Anyway, that's not even porn, yet I worry about having it on my computer!

I think you have a good idea - if there are people who can stomach viewing that kind of thing to help identify and save some of these abused and missing kids, then it would be a great help to LE, I would think. I know I couldn't do it, and I commend those in LE who have to face the horrors that I only read about (times like this when I'm grateful I can't really "picture things"). My prayers for all of them to have peace knowing they're helping save other innocent people.

Dante7
07-04-2008, 10:00 AM
Yes, I do remember something about another child. Ashley :confused:
Missed this...


Who? Where mentioned?

Dante7
07-04-2008, 10:15 AM
Just thinking outloud again...we haven't really mentioned ARs real father much. But I think someone said that the affidavit does have something where MJ mentions that the Mom had been talking to AR's real father. Maybe this statement where AR says "you wouldn't want anything to happen to Ash so don't let it to my Dad" is referring to her bio father...which leads me to believe she knew that MJ was the raueldom email.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Random question...if MJ and AR lived together, why all the emailing (if AR knew it was MJ)??


off the top of my head...

1.) I've e-mailed to people I live with when we were in the same building.

2.) E-mail is quieter than speaking- more surreptitious. If other people were in the house, it would make sense.

3.) E-mailing doesn't mean they were in the same place at the same time. One can access many types of accounts from remote locations.

If we have the times the e-mails were sent, we would deduce where the parties doing the e-mailing were. Also- we'd have a general idea of the pace of the discussion- look at one message and see how long it was before the response came, we'd have a basis for figuring out the movements of the participants. Which e-mails were sent from which computers where?

Dante7
07-04-2008, 10:20 AM
AR didn't consider it as "abuse" or "enduring so much" at that point...in my opinion. Her mind didn't work that way anymore.


perhaps not consciously, but that doesn't mean that somewhere under the surface she didn't feel something along those lines, even if she didn't consciously know where those feelings came from.

Certainly she identified with MJ- plenty of occasions where people have come to ID with their oppressors- it's a fairly common psychological response.

But even identifying, she could have still on some level resented Brooke.

That doesn't rule out the seeing-Brooke-as-a-threat theory too, of course, and these two theories needn't be mutually exclusive.

MCDRAW
07-04-2008, 10:21 AM
If there was evidence of this, it hasn't been released. It is possible that MJ and Denise were into that kind of thing which would have made it easier for him to order such. You would think that a grand plus change would have been seen by Denise on their bank statements and he could have told her they were for themselves to use. It is difficult to understand why he had them delivered to the house if he were worried about Denise finding out...but they would both be at work and AR would be home to get that delivery. Doesn't explain the CC statement tho.

Asking if an abductor/torturer/murderer would spend over a grand for his "big finish"...well...I can say the answer is...YES, he would. He is seeing this fantasy in his head for God knows how many years and he is going to see it thru to the end. He would spend any amount of money to make it happen and take any risk for it. Just like he did.


Maybe M.J. had a seperate bank account from Denise that she didn't have access too.

Carrington
07-04-2008, 10:23 AM
Missed this...


Who? Where mentioned?

AR mentioned the name ASH in the latest affidavit. I was fishing to see if anyone else remember the name Ashley as being another child of Denise and ?.
Someone mentioned she may be around 8.

It's very hard to protect the minor children's identity in a case of this magnitude, involving so many different families, with multiple marriages and boyfriends.
IMO

Dante7
07-04-2008, 10:24 AM
There was never a plan to "bring her in to Breck". There was a plan to abduct/torture/kill her.


Do we have solid evidence for this? I haven't looked at the affidavit yet (got home from dinner too late), but do we know they definitely planned to kill her, or just to abduct/torture/indoctrinate her? Do we know that Brooke's death wasn't accidental?

But...we do not know that Brooke had not already been a part of everything already.

True- we haven't seen any solid evidence one way or the other. I still doubt it, pending further information.

MCDRAW
07-04-2008, 10:27 AM
Hiya, SS! :seeya:

I wouldn't be able to look at the child porn to be of any help, but when I read your post, I had to comment that I'm scared sometimes just clicking on people's MySpaces and related links!! I checked out the extremerestraints site last night (where MJ bought his sick stuff) and was shocked! I didn't think I was THAT naiive, but WOW! :eek: Anyway, that's not even porn, yet I worry about having it on my computer!

I think you have a good idea - if there are people who can stomach viewing that kind of thing to help identify and save some of these abused and missing kids, then it would be a great help to LE, I would think. I know I couldn't do it, and I commend those in LE who have to face the horrors that I only read about (times like this when I'm grateful I can't really "picture things"). My prayers for all of them to have peace knowing they're helping save other innocent people.


I also checked out extreme restraints....I am/was that naive. I also worry about that being on my computer. That is probably a good idea that SS had about looking for missing children. I couldn't do it. This case is already giving me nightmares. I honestly do not know how LE handles this day in and day out.

evelyn24
07-04-2008, 10:29 AM
Interesting quote here - from someone who claims to be MJ's former probation officer:

I was Michael Jacques Probation Officer for a number of years...His present situation was highly predictable, Iím sorry to say. I retired in 2002, and stil have bad dreams about him, aggravated of course by the current situation. (http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/03/once-a-pedophile-always-a-pedophile/#comment-8092)

Thank you for posting this link.
After reading the details of his 1993 conviction, I think it's a strong possibility he has raped and killed before Brooke.

MCDRAW
07-04-2008, 10:33 AM
Okay so now Juv2 isn't there, MJ and AR tell her well let's go back to the house and see if he called or left a message. After a while, MJ heads upstairs. How does he get Brooke to go upstairs? Was the computer upstairs? Maybe MJ said oh hey JUV2 sent a email come up and read it. Brooke was under the impression that her and AR were going to get together with the boys. MJ was just giving them a lift around town. Not knowing that it was a setup.


A.R. said that M.J. asked Brooke to go upstairs with him. I think when they got her back home, they tied her up and he took her wherever he killed her.

calidreamin
07-04-2008, 10:40 AM
Thank you for posting this link.
After reading the details of his 1993 conviction, I think it's a strong possibility he has raped and killed before Brooke.

I think it is possible he killed before also. After reading what his parole officer said it seems there were signs how dangerous he is way before this. Why would he only get 2 years for almost killing that woman? That is just very scary!:mad::furious:

gigi2009
07-04-2008, 10:42 AM
A.R. said that M.J. asked Brooke to go upstairs with him. I think when they got her back home, they tied her up and he took her wherever he killed her.


I wonder if AR helped MJ tie Brooke up, did either of them have any scratches or bruises; that's assuming Brooke managed to fight back.

Dante7
07-04-2008, 10:43 AM
I also checked out extreme restraints....I am/was that naive. I also worry about that being on my computer.

Noting illegal in and of itself, I assure you. Everything there is designed for use by consenting adults.



I honestly do not know how LE handles this day in and day out.


Same way the social services people I know do-you get exposed to it over long periods of time, things don't shock you as much. Hey, that extremerestraints site would have shocked me ten, fifteen years ago. I just looked and thought "Wow, pricey. This is a site for the truly dedicated, not just the dabbler". Now, I only cleared the history on the laptop because I didn't want anyone else to stumble on to it by accident and make me go through the embarrassment of having to explain.

Taximom
07-04-2008, 10:52 AM
I wonder if Brooke was drugged that morning. Did she drink coffee? Maybe they put something in her coffee. (That whole "throwing out the coffee" thing was weird to me.) Maybe that's why they were just watching tv for a little bit because they had to wait for the drugs to kick in. I guess we might find out when the autopsy reports are back.

Just random thoughts.

calidreamin
07-04-2008, 10:58 AM
I wonder if Brooke was drugged that morning. Did she drink coffee? Maybe they put something in her coffee. (That whole "throwing out the coffee" thing was weird to me.) Maybe that's why they were just watching tv for a little bit because they had to wait for the drugs to kick in. I guess we might find out when the autopsy reports are back.

Just random thoughts.

Those are good thoughts TM:blowkiss:. She very well could have been drugged , that would have made it easier to control her.:mad:

nanandjim
07-04-2008, 10:59 AM
I wonder if Brooke was drugged that morning. Did she drink coffee? Maybe they put something in her coffee. (That whole "throwing out the coffee" thing was weird to me.) Maybe that's why they were just watching tv for a little bit because they had to wait for the drugs to kick in. I guess we might find out when the autopsy reports are back.

Just random thoughts.
Interesting. I never thought of that. I did wonder why she would willingly go upstairs with him. It really looked like she did not trust him (in the convenience store video). She had her arms crossed (like a self-protective mode); and she kind of stepped away from him.

What I don't understand is why AR never questioned why they had to lie to Brooke and deceive her about some boy and some party. Why didn't they use the "Breckenridge" scam on her??

MCDRAW
07-04-2008, 10:59 AM
I must say, today I do feel more compassion for Brooke's mom. Don't take it to mean a lot of...just some. The anger is wearing off and more facts are coming in.


I feel sorry for Brooke's Mom too. As far as I know Gagnon, the step-Dad, has never been charged with a sexual crime. She may have not had a clue where he is concerned. If Brooke's sister wasn't initiated into this program then maybe the mom kept her and Brooke away from M.J. as much as she could. ( I would not have let my children around him at all). But I know these sexual predators are con men. Con men can convince you of anything. That is how they lure so many victims. I stated in an earlier thread about a friend of mine becoming good friends with the child molester that lived next door to her. When I confronted her she told me that she really thinks he is innocent. I trold her that is what he wanted her to think. She continued to be friends with him and his family. Thankfully he has moved now before anything could happen to her children. Hindsight is 20/20 I'm sure they are all thinking back and seeing things that are red flags to them now. I know for a fact that not everyone looks up the sex offender registry. What is a red flag to those of us on Ws means nothing to other people. My family doesn't really pay attention to crime and they certainly don't listen when I try to warn them. My sister is very trusting...lets her kids go everywhere and really doesn't watch them. They say my brother and I are overprotective because we don't let our kids do anything.

MCDRAW
07-04-2008, 11:01 AM
Interesting. I never thought of that. I did wonder why she would willingly go upstairs with him. It really looked like she did not trust him (in the convenience store video). She had her arms crossed (like a self-protective mode); and she kind of stepped away from him.

What I don't understand is why AR never questioned why they had to lie to Brooke and deceive her about some boy and some party. Why didn't they use the "Breckenridge" scam on her??


A. R. knew what M.J. was up too. I think they tied her up, I don't think she went upstairs with him. They couldn't use the same scam on Brooke,IMO, she was older. She would have probably went to her Mother or her sister.

MCDRAW
07-04-2008, 11:03 AM
Noting illegal in and of itself, I assure you. Everything there is designed for use by consenting adults.






Same way the social services people I know do-you get exposed to it over long periods of time, things don't shock you as much. Hey, that extremerestraints site would have shocked me ten, fifteen years ago. I just looked and thought "Wow, pricey. This is a site for the truly dedicated, not just the dabbler". Now, I only cleared the history on the laptop because I didn't want anyone else to stumble on to it by accident and make me go through the embarrassment of having to explain.


How do you clear the history on your computer?

Dante7
07-04-2008, 11:08 AM
If there was evidence of this, it hasn't been released. It is possible that MJ and Denise were into that kind of thing which would have made it easier for him to order such. You would think that a grand plus change would have been seen by Denise on their bank statements and he could have told her they were for themselves to use.

They could have separate bank accounts.

He could also have an account she doesn't know about. If he's doing distribution of porn and such he'd possibly have a PO Box and/or mail-drop set up, so statements and similar things could come there too, or he could have an online set-up.

It is difficult to understand why he had them delivered to the house if he were worried about Denise finding out...but they would both be at work and AR would be home to get that delivery.

Plausible, if he had an idea of delivery time.

Doesn't explain the CC statement tho.

CC statement?

strach304
07-04-2008, 11:08 AM
I went to the extreme site and looked up all the items listed in the affidavit and those three items listed didn't add up in amount. But anyway if you look at the details of those instruments I personally don't see a 12 year old surviving that. I believe her cause of death will be directly related to those acts perpetrated against her. LE did say she died a violent death. I doubt something like that would've been used in the house but rather set up in the rental. Also didn't LE say the evidence that led to her body was obtained from the house? Didn't say which house though. May have been the rental.

nanandjim
07-04-2008, 11:09 AM
A. R. knew what M.J. was up too. I think they tied her up, I don't think she went upstairs with him. They couldn't use the same scam on Brooke,IMO, she was older. She would have probably went to her Mother or her sister.

I guess that you are right because they delayed it because they wanted to make sure that her mother and sister were working or away. I wonder what happened between AR and her sister, (Cassandra??). I bet it was something sexual in nature. Maybe, Cassandra discovered that AR and her stepfather were doing something together.

Also, I read posts where SS talks about seeing the machine that he ordered. Where did she or you guys see the machine? I read that he ordered over $1K worth of equipment. It sounds like he was in the porn industry. Where on earth could you put that kind of equipment without your wife seeing it? Do you guys think that Denise knew about this equipment?? I can't remember the date that it was ordered. Are you guys thinking that he ordered it specifically to use on Brooke and film her? I first noted that Brooke reminded me of Shasta when we saw her on the videotape with Duncan...you know, the same kind of defensive body language. No wonder, this guy cut from the same cloth. Sad and scary.

Taximom
07-04-2008, 11:20 AM
Those are good thoughts TM:blowkiss:. She very well could have been drugged , that would have made it easier to control her.:mad:

I woke up with that thought, probably ruminated on it all night while sleeping. I just think it's weird that AR didn't hear any struggling or shouting if something happened while she was still there waiting for bf to pick her up. Then again, maybe she did and just isn't saying. It's also a big house, so who knows what can be heard.

Dante7
07-04-2008, 11:26 AM
Hey, I am tough on all newbies. LOL I just treat you like everyone else is all. Jump back in here!

Hey, I don't plan on going anywhere else any time soon.

And you weren't tough on me at all, IMHO.

I like the way you think.


Thank you. I must say I like the way you think too. :)

You are right...if he used it for personal it is a trophy. The only reason I don't think he used it for personal is the hoards of child porn that Ray Gagnon already confessed to having.

Child porn is one thing, snuff's another. For one thing, it would depend on how far he was willing to go, for another, child porn has a larger audience and less severe penalty. I'm still thinking trophy. The presence of child porn for possible sale doesn't necessarily justify snuff. One does not necessarily lead to the other, even with a murderer. Depends on how his kinks work. Regardless, we're talking mental illness here (I say that in the interests of possible profiling, not as justification or attempt to elicit sympathy- this does *not* excuse him from responsibility)- he'll have very specific parameters he operates by. Neuroses, especially sexual ones, tend to have certain criteria necessary for their fulfillment. In order to understand him, and therefore figure this out, we'd need to know about those parameters and criteria.

My first reaction is that he got most of it from Jacques.


plausible.

RG also admitted that some of that was from AR and the BF. It tells me a lot of "performance sex" on film is going on with MJ.

Now, do we have evidence of knowing complicity on the BF's part, or was it surreptitious filming?

Taximom
07-04-2008, 11:27 AM
The 3 items I saw listed in the affidavit cost $941.50 ($795 $48.50, $98). With tax and s/h it probably came to $1,000+.

We don't know where he had them shipped either. As with many "interesting" purchases you can make with your credit card, it probably didn't say "EXTREME RESTRAINTS" on the cc statement. Maybe he did all the bills and DJ didn't see them.

strach304
07-04-2008, 11:28 AM
I guess that you are right because they delayed it because they wanted to make sure that her mother and sister were working or away. I wonder what happened between AR and her sister, (Cassandra??). I bet it was something sexual in nature. Maybe, Cassandra discovered that AR and her stepfather were doing something together.

Also, I read posts where SS talks about seeing the machine that he ordered. Where did she or you guys see the machine? I read that he ordered over $1K worth of equipment. It sounds like he was in the porn industry. Where on earth could you put that kind of equipment without your wife seeing it? Do you guys think that Denise knew about this equipment?? I can't remember the date that it was ordered. Are you guys thinking that he ordered it specifically to use on Brooke and film her? I first noted that Brooke reminded me of Shasta when we saw her on the videotape with Duncan...you know, the same kind of defensive body language. No wonder, this guy cut from the same cloth. Sad and scary.

I believe it was ordered on the 16th of June. There is a rental house on the property so that's my guess as to where it was concealed.

VTGirl81
07-04-2008, 11:28 AM
Maybe someone can make sense of this because it's not adding up to me.

I certainly don't want to think that AR had anything to do with this, but it's looking more and more like that.

In one of the emails in the affidavit, MJ (posing as C, I believe) tells AR that "dad" needs at least a few hours with Brooke, then he (C) asks AR if she wants some time with her too (did he mean sexually?)

I have a hard time believing that he would ask her if she wanted time with Brooke after she was tied up, and then when he brought Brooke upstairs at the house, AR says that MJ made her leave with her boyfriend....that doesn't compute to me.

We know that the emails are telling the truth...but don't know that AR is.

What do you guys think?

Dante7
07-04-2008, 11:29 AM
Makes me want to start some sort of "hit list" of my own. When we are looking for children that is always in the back of my mind. We do not dare venture into that territory. I know I never go to porn to find our missing...others might. I would like to get together a select group and have our credentials screened so we can go look for them. To me, we are dedicated and look in every place except there. We are leaving a stone unturned.


What sort of thing do you have in mind?

VTGirl81
07-04-2008, 11:30 AM
The 3 items I saw listed in the affidavit cost $941.50 ($795 $48.50, $98). With tax and s/h it probably came to $1,000+.

We don't know where he had them shipped either. As with many "interesting" purchases you can make with your credit card, it probably didn't say "EXTREME RESTRAINTS" on the cc statement. Maybe he did all the bills and DJ didn't see them.


It does say that they were shipped to his house, I thought?

strach304
07-04-2008, 11:36 AM
Taximom, I didn't feel like going back to get the exact amount just recalled a little over 1000. I noticed on that site they had ankle and wrist restraints for 82.50 for that particular machine. Don't know if ropes and handcuffs would be adequate. Not a big deal anyway just something I noticed.

dark_shadows
07-04-2008, 11:37 AM
It does say that they were shipped to his house, I thought?
Dearest VtGirl,:blowkiss:
The items were shipped to his home. It was said on the news here.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Taximom
07-04-2008, 11:37 AM
You are probably right about the shipment, VTGirl. I don't remember all the little details!

I do remember that part where AR was asked if she wanted time with her too. I didn't know what to think about that part.

Also I keep thinking the whole "coffee tasting bad" thing has to do with Brooke's disappearance. Maybe they gave her coffee with drugs in it and she dumped it because it tasted bad. It was something big enough to lie about, or have in their "story" anyway, which is why I think it's bugging me!!!

strach304
07-04-2008, 11:38 AM
It does say that they were shipped to his house, I thought?

Again, the rental. Then there's AR.

Dante7
07-04-2008, 11:39 AM
I'm not saying counseling is sufficient by any means. I'm pointing out that with all the disgusting information we have received, we really don't know enough to base an opinion on. I can't tell you how many times I get so angry about this and point the finger at the mom, aunt, cousin, etc., but then my mind goes back to the fact that we really don't know very much at all about this. . . it is all so disturbing...unbelievable....


Agreed- we don't have enough facts yet to judge the mothers here, and we also don't know enough about their psychological states. I'd mentioned before, the min can suppress a lot if it seriously conflicts with the person's worldview and sense of reality There may always be a nagging doubt about the truth lurking in the background, but still, people will believe what they want to believe. Hold on to a belief hard enough, and you'll see what you want to see, rather than what you do.

calidreamin
07-04-2008, 11:39 AM
The 3 items I saw listed in the affidavit cost $941.50 ($795 $48.50, $98). With tax and s/h it probably came to $1,000+.

We don't know where he had them shipped either. As with many "interesting" purchases you can make with your credit card, it probably didn't say "EXTREME RESTRAINTS" on the cc statement. Maybe he did all the bills and DJ didn't see them.

This guy is sneaky so I could see him having a credit card that the wife didn't know about. You would think that she would have noticed all of these sex toys coming to and around the house though.

dark_shadows
07-04-2008, 11:41 AM
You are probably right about the shipment, VTGirl. I don't remember all the little details!

I do remember that part where AR was asked if she wanted time with her too. I didn't know what to think about that part.

Also I keep thinking the whole "coffee tasting bad" thing has to do with Brooke's disappearance. Maybe they gave her coffee with drugs in it and she dumped it because it tasted bad. It was something big enough to lie about, or have in their "story" anyway, which is why I think it's bugging me!!!

My dearest Taximom,:blowkiss:
Good job on saying that Brooke was probably drugged. I did not think of that.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

calidreamin
07-04-2008, 11:41 AM
Again, the rental. Then there's AR.
Thats right scratch I forgot about the rental. He may have kept the toys he ordered there. Does anyone know if the rental is occupied or was it vacant for his use?

Dante7
07-04-2008, 11:41 AM
Didn't someone in LE say that he couldn't state it was a homicide...which surprised me really. Oh, I know they're awaiting autopsy results, but you can't visually see that there was foul play involved?


Foul play indeed, intentional murder? Yet to be determined. Remember, it's only truly "murder" if you *intend* to kill the person.

adnoid
07-04-2008, 11:45 AM
...then he (C) asks AR if she wants some time with her too (did he mean sexually?)...What do you guys think?

In that same document there is a comment AR makes which I took to mean (pardon my bluntness) that AR planned to piss into Brooke's mouth and see how much she liked it. I got the feeling that AR did have some sort of desire to harm Brooke, probably because of the crap put in her head by the disgusting pervs now sitting in jail.

kahskye
07-04-2008, 11:45 AM
Reading all of this just turns my stomach. I've been trying to catch up and I know I've missed some things and hope you go easy on me when I ask where was Brooke's mother? I have a 12 yr old dd and I would never let her go anywhere to visit a friend in a hospital w/o having more information. I would have had to personally talk to the friend's mother and I surely wouldn't let her uncle just drop her off. I know the mother is hurting and I'm not blaming her, just wondered if this has been brought up in the previous pages?

Dante7
07-04-2008, 11:46 AM
Hmmmm, maybe gthe SOB got the money for his sex machine from good ol George W's stimulus plan....



LOL! OK- you're funny! I liked that...:clap:

Dante7
07-04-2008, 11:48 AM
AR seemed to be very isolated and very dependent on pleasing MJ which could explain her reluctance and lying to LE.

Very good theory! Makes sense! I've only just tarted going thru the affidavit so I hadn't seen the bit suggesting to AR her possible replacement.

bdmama
07-04-2008, 11:48 AM
i drove by the houses yesterday and it looks like it has people living here, I didnt see any "vacant" houses anywhere near his house. There were still ALOT of police cars there at the house too.

fran
07-04-2008, 11:50 AM
I had another thought. The first thing the media does is show either live footage or taped footage of someone in this type of case. As far as Raymond Gagnon goes, we've seen nothing but a sketch. I bet there' a reason LE isn't releasing his face yet.

Some of the cases I've seen where they didn't immediately show a photo of the suspect, was because LE was attempting to find witnesses who saw that person. They don't want to contaminate the witnesses with his picture everywhere.

IF the perps picture was all over the media, the defense could say the person saw his picture on tv. Whereby if there's no available photo of him, they can use his mug shot in a photo line-up.

At least that's my personal explanation.

Could be,
fran

calidreamin
07-04-2008, 11:55 AM
i drove by the houses yesterday and it looks like it has people living here, I didnt see any "vacant" houses anywhere near his house. There were still ALOT of police cars there at the house too.

Thanks bdmama for the info. So if the rental was occupied where did he keep all of his stuff? His wife must have noticed if he kept it at home.

Dante7
07-04-2008, 11:56 AM
I wouldn't be able to look at the child porn to be of any help, but when I read your post, I had to comment that I'm scared sometimes just clicking on people's MySpaces and related links!!

Anything illegal on Myspace or similar public site run by a major company would get shut down pretty quickly. They have a vested interest in keeping illegal material out lest they get legally charged for hosting it or linking from it.

dark_shadows
07-04-2008, 11:58 AM
Jacques impregnated his 15-year-old relative in 1985 and he was charged with that. The charge of lewd and lascivious conduct was dropped.
I wonder if the girl had the child.
That was said again this morning on WCAX.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

Dante7
07-04-2008, 11:59 AM
Interesting. I never thought of that. I did wonder why she would willingly go upstairs with him. It really looked like she did not trust him (in the convenience store video). She had her arms crossed (like a self-protective mode); and she kind of stepped away from him.

I still wonder if it was more frustration due to delays in getting to the "party". Remember, we're talking about a young girl, not an adult. Different reactions and mannerisms.

What I don't understand is why AR never questioned why they had to lie to Brooke and deceive her about some boy and some party. Why didn't they use the "Breckenridge" scam on her??

Simple, they knew her, so they'd know what she'd fall for. Also- she was older than AR was when he dragged her in.

gigi2009
07-04-2008, 12:00 PM
Very good theory! Makes sense! I've only just tarted going thru the affidavit so I hadn't seen the bit suggesting to AR her possible replacement.


Thankyou! LOL--there's alot to read and wade through for sure. But that one quote really struck me and I couldn't shake it. The quote about the "committee doesn't like you too much!"

Also there's a new article on foxnews.com that there is no evidence supporting a wider sex ring involving any other girls.

bdmama
07-04-2008, 12:00 PM
That relative of his that he raped was his own sister...not sure if she had the baby or not, adn I do not know her name right off hand but I can find out!

DeltaDawn
07-04-2008, 12:02 PM
Okay, after finishing watching megan on the oreilly factor just now, with the male commentator and reading through half of the affidavits and posts to date. Things are changing like zip zap zoop so fast in this case it's absolutely astonishing, never have I ever seen one un-fold with the twists, turns and available evidence as in this case. It's unprecedented.

Jacques was grooming, lying, molesting and raping juvenile 1 since the age of 9 years old and is now 14 years old, being a five year time span. Through this entire time, he has lied to her under the premise that she was a part of a government sex ring, in which she had to be initiated into by criminal methods unbeknowest to her. Jacques continued the lying, grooming, raping as he continued to story growing it more and more over time.

He began contacting her via phone calls, e-mails and in person claiming to be working with the government and others whom she's never met personally but knew Jacques as he is a real blood line relative, (yuck). For five years he has lied. Raped and used her body for his evil devices.

Over time, the step father became aware of such activities, got involved in the porn, raping lying and molesting of her also. So we now have two grown men doing these horrid things to her.

She acquires an age appropriate boyfriend in this time frame, acting out inappropriately sexually with this BF naturally as that's all she's practically ever known. The lie of the government sex ring continued to grow and pilferate to this point in time when Jacques in my opionion grew bored and tired of just her and his wife, his videos, and porno images, and more likely than not molesting other children, but not to this degree of forcible rape.

He then wants Brooke. Brooke wouldn't comply, or Brooke became aware and threatened to rat them out, some kind of threat Brooke imposed, or he wanted her and she wouldn't give in and threatened to tell. So he talks juvenile 1 into helping her get brooke to his sex dungeon and he raped, tortured and murdered her. Juvenile according to her affidavit didn't see brooke after she got her to the sex dungeon of Jacques house, she sat and watched tv, then left at jazcques command to go.

So all of it all this time was and is a lie. This juvenile 1 thought for five years she was a participant member chosen and passed the test of being in a study. Being so young, she didn't know better. I can't believe she never confided in not one soul, not one soul that would have questioned her or others involved and got to the bottom of this atrocity.

Then we have stepfather. He claims to have had sex, (he raped her) with juvenile 1, had porno images per his affidavit, but hadn't harmed Brooke, just help dispose of evidentuary property in the case.

So Juvenile was used and abused for nought, in her eyes, for this was all a made up sick fantasy by Jacques who isn't a part of some big foreign sex snuff sex tape ring for hire to get rich on your lazy evil back. It was a scheme to take what he saw he wanted, and felt entitled too.

Where the Hell is the mothers in this? There ain't no way in Betsies (insert any cuss word you can imagine) they didn't see something, know something. Have red flags, radars, hinky meters going off. Ain't no way they didn't have an opportunity to know something.

Who was doing the laundry at juvenile 1 house? Her, all by herself for the entire family all these years? I doubt that. Ain't no dog on way. The physiological changes that had to occur prematurely in this young child was within itself red flags and evil hinky meters going off. How was she kept from becoming pregnant? Hello! Somebody help me please! I'm about to drive down to vermont and slap the BS and foolishness out the faces of Jacques wife, oh yes, she ain't that blind dumb, and some mothers. Hell, I'm even gonna slap the damn dog. Cuz his butt's in trouble with me too. It goes against nature.

The smells, languages, eye contacts, behaviors, habits, positioning of furniture, videos, electronics and oh yes, the money trails, follow them please!!!!! And I want to know where the monies were coming from in juvenile 1 life? Her mother should and did see this, where would she get money to buy herself certain things that we know any 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 year old would be buying with their hush hush secret evil dirty money.

Burn filth burn.

:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious::furi ous::furious::furious:

fran
07-04-2008, 12:04 PM
Interesting quote here - from someone who claims to be MJ's former probation officer:

I was Michael Jacques Probation Officer for a number of years...His present situation was highly predictable, Iím sorry to say. I retired in 2002, and stil have bad dreams about him, aggravated of course by the current situation. (http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/03/once-a-pedophile-always-a-pedophile/#comment-8092)

Wow! That's some statement.

Why didn't this person put that type of thing on his probation report? Or did he?

Vermont definitely needs to clean up their act.:mad:

fran

calidreamin
07-04-2008, 12:04 PM
Jacques impregnated his 15-year-old relative in 1985 and he was charged with that. The charge of lewd and lascivious conduct was dropped.
I wonder if the girl had the child.
That was said again this morning on WCAX.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

OMG DS that is disgusting. I still can't believe this guy was running around loose.

bdmama
07-04-2008, 12:05 PM
It says he ritired in 2002, Jacques wasnt released from probabtion until 2006.

calidreamin
07-04-2008, 12:05 PM
Wow! That's some statement.

Why didn't this person put that type of thing on his probation report? Or did he?

Vermont definitely needs to clean up their act.:mad:

fran

Agreed fran vermont really needs to change the way they handle sex offenders.:furious:

Dante7
07-04-2008, 12:06 PM
How do you clear the history on your computer?

your browser will have a drop-down at the top of the window that says "History", or "Internet Applications", I think, for Internet Explorer . Firefox has "Clear Private Data" under "Tools" (not sure for Netscape as I haven't used that browser in years). It'll have a clear history, clear cookies and possibly other features for clearing- fields, cache, etc. On many systems, the admin may still have access if you clear it, tho, as there would still be a record of where you went on the server.

VTGirl81
07-04-2008, 12:08 PM
I thought he also had more than just that one additional property. She was found on a different property of his...correct?

So, just how much does this POS own? :furious: REALLY raises the red flag about where this money was coming from.

bdmama
07-04-2008, 12:10 PM
VT defnitely needs to change the laws. I got a phone call from the cheif of police in Randolph a year ago asking me to come to the station so he could show me apic of RSO living in my neighborhood. 27 convictions in 13 different states, not one of them VT so he wasnt listed on the VT registry. Chief said to me "if you are a sex offender, come to VT, we'll hide your ass because you cant be on the SOR if you havent been convicted in this state".

dark_shadows
07-04-2008, 12:11 PM
Jacques impregnated his 15-year-old relative in 1985 and he was charged with that. The charge of lewd and lascivious conduct was dropped.
I wonder if the girl had the child.
That was said again this morning on WCAX.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

OMG DS that is disgusting. I still can't believe this guy was running around loose.

My very dearest Calidreamin,:blowkiss:
Happy holiday my friend!!
Yes, It is just disgusting.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

bdmama
07-04-2008, 12:11 PM
She was found a couple of miles down the road, I dont think it was his property though.

brighidin
07-04-2008, 12:11 PM
That relative of his that he raped was his own sister...not sure if she had the baby or not, adn I do not know her name right off hand but I can find out!

I think someone (can't remember -- sorry!) found that the other day, but I have no idea what thread it is in. Pretty sure Angel is her first name and her last name starts with a B but I'm drawing a blank on it right now.

Taximom
07-04-2008, 12:14 PM
Angelina Benoir