Brooke Bennett, 12 yrs. old Randolph, VT #10

[SeriouslySearching]

Please continue here...

[SeriouslySearching]

That does add another layer of twists then...if Kevin is the uncle of JSG! Wow. I just got back from dinner and the fireworks display and have missed a lot! Guess I better catch up now!

[calidreamin]

I just got back from the fireworks too and have to catch. I am also starting to get very confused trying to keep everyone connected with this straight. I am glad I am not the only one lol.:crazy:

[SeriouslySearching]

Miss a few hours around here and you get lost quickly! WSers are GOOD and are as fast as lightning. :)

[LI_Mom]

We certainly need the Cliff's Notes for THIS case. lol

Imagine what LE is going through.... their list of people must be at least 50 times as long as the one we're trying to deal with.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think it was RG & Brooke's family who lived in Alabama.

That's why it seemed a little odd to me that she'd mention running off to Texas instead of Alabama.... the state where she must have had personal ties & friends.

Then again, I'm pretty confused myself by this point. :confused:

Does anyone know what kind of relationship she had with RG once he divorced her mother? Did she visit him in Texas???They were still close according to reports from people who live in the town. When he was coming home this time, Cassandra ditched a guy named Tim because of him.

It was Ray and Cassanda Gagnon (Brooke's mom) who lived in Alabama from the time she was 3-9 yo.

[calidreamin]

Everyone here is good and fast. I am definately honing my skills here with you good people.:)

[SeriouslySearching]

We certainly need the Cliff's Notes for THIS case. lol

Imagine what LE is going through.... their list of people must be at least 50 times as long as the one we're trying to deal with.There are lots of people here that keep personal notes on cases. :) I just keep 'em in my head tho. :headache:

[SeriouslySearching]

Kevin Grosenheider in San Antonio, TXFor those who didn't know. :)

[InsomniacWoman]

It was Ray and Cassanda Gagnon (Brooke's mom) who lived in Alabama from the time she was 3-9 yo.

Thanks Seriously, once again I was getting confused, lol

[SeriouslySearching]

So if Kevin G. is party to the child porn by either looking at it, collecting it, or whatever...he knew about Michael Jacques and Ray Gagnon's sexual relationship with AR. This definitely adds a new player. With his nephew already having been arrested, it sounds like it could be a "family" thing with them, too. We could have our 3rd man then.

[calidreamin]

So if Kevin G. is party to the child porn by either looking at it, collecting it, or whatever...he knew about Michael Jacques and Ray Gagnon's sexual relationship with AR. This definitely adds a new player. With his nephew already having been arrested, it sounds like it could be a "family" thing with them, too. We could have our 3rd man then.

I think you are right on the money here SS. He should be looked at good and hard.

[SeriouslySearching]

They need to make sure those men don't have something similar set up with their families, too.

[Busylady]

I am hoping that since Kevin G logged on to a computer to change Brookes myspace, they can seize all his computers to check them out?

[LI_Mom]

This is why so many names are NOT attached to photos.

And also why I believe LE might have good reason to NOT announce when they find/found the safe.

If it really was thrown into a dumpster as was claimed it shouldn't elude the FBI for very long.

[LI_Mom]

I am hoping that since Kevin G logged on to a computer to change Brookes myspace, they can seize all his computers to check them out?

LE must have computers coming out of their kazoo in this case! lol

Let's hope they don't trace any IPs to local libraries or there's another slew of hard dives to check.

[calidreamin]

LE must have computers coming out of their kazoo in this case! lol

Let's hope they don't trace any IPs to local libraries or there's another slew of hard dives to check.

LOl LI Mom I am sure LE is very busy with all of the compputers they need to check. I am also sure they are going thru this Kevin guys computer to see what is on there.

[MCDRAW]

Is Keven G. , Gagnon's landlord?

[calidreamin]

Is Keven G. , Gagnon's landlord?

Yes Kevin G is Gagnons landlord in Texas.

[Tom'sGirl]

Is Keven G. , Gagnon's landlord?
Yes MCDRAW

[MCDRAW]

Thanks, Tom'sGirl and Calidreamin.

[i.b.nora]

I am hoping that since Kevin G logged on to a computer to change Brookes myspace, they can seize all his computers to check them out?

Do you have a link or a source for this information?

[Busylady]

If you go to the affidavit thread, the affidavit shows that Kevin G. logged on to change information on Brookes myspace after MJ gave him the user name and password.

Do you have a link or a source for this information?

[SeriouslySearching]

This case just gets worse all the time, doesn't it? :( There are so many layers of lies, deceit, abuse, torture, pervs, and porn that it is all mucked up. Poor Brooke. She was at the center of it all and had to pay with her life for it.

[CarpeDiem]

I don't recall us talking about Brooke having a brother, this article mentions him, he is two years older, different last name, Dennis Andress.

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/RH/20080704/NEWS04/807040401/1004/SPORTS

[becca]

I am hoping that since Kevin G logged on to a computer to change Brookes myspace, they can seize all his computers to check them out?

They can and they will. The FBI has a great computer lab.

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, he has been mentioned a few times. However, I didn't hear how old he was. Thanks, Carpe! I imagine this has been extremely difficult for him, too.

[Beyond Belief]

KevinG addresses in San Antonio and San Marcos

Cgagnon-5545 VT Route 12a
1703 E Bethel Rd Randolph.
other household member Obney w/Littleton, Col address attached.

Littleton, Co. Found a Ray A Gagnon, born 1935.
Several families named Jacques also. Beth and Annainse (sp)

G'nite

[Chica]

I am hoping that since Kevin G logged on to a computer to change Brookes myspace, they can seize all his computers to check them out?

I'm trying to keep this all straight . . . I understood that Gagnon was still in TX on 6/25 and he received a phone call from MJ directing him to change Brooke's Myspace...:confused:

[Busylady]

K going back to read I might be confused.

I'm trying to keep this all straight . . . I understood that Gagnon was still in TX on 6/25 and he received a phone call from MJ directing him to change Brooke's Myspace...:confused:

[Busylady]

Sorry it was Gagnon who logged on to computer in Tx not Kevin G.

[SuziQ]

Sheesh! I take a break to watch fireworks and you all have a great discussion without me!

Busylady, you are the bomb.

Everyone, keep doing what you are doing. You are all fantastic!

Now, I am back to catching up. BRB shortly.....

[Chica]

Sorry it was Gagnon who logged on to computer in Tx not Kevin G.

Thanks Busy! :blowkiss: It is so difficult to keep everything straight! I thought it was Gagnon, but you really had me wondering!:crazy:

[LI_Mom]

I wonder why MJ needed someone else to log into the site... didn't he make some changes on his own even BEFORE he asked Gagnon to log in?

He could have made the changes himself faster than it took to make the call & explain what he wanted to be done.

Makes me wonder if he did that on purpose to implicate Gagnon also.


Man! I can't get over how truly STUPID this guy was.... the IPs, the phone trails.

[SuziQ]

If you go to the affidavit thread, the affidavit shows that Kevin G. logged on to change information on Brookes myspace after MJ gave him the user name and password.

A computer at his ip address did. And the convos between MJ and RG took place from RG's cell phone. So you'd have to wonder who was really logging in in TX RG or Kevin G?

[Chica]

A computer at his ip address did. And the convos between MJ and RG took place from RG's cell phone. So you'd have to wonder who was really logging in in TX RG or Kevin G?

If I'm not mistaken, Gagnon admitted in one of the affidavits that he logged in to her account from TX, but admitted to only changing the last login time.

[SuziQ]

I'm trying to keep this all straight . . . I understood that Gagnon was still in TX on 6/25 and he received a phone call from MJ directing him to change Brooke's Myspace...:confused:

Gagnon's phone was a cell phone. So phone pings will have to determine where he was. Gagnon could have had Kevin G sign in for him and dump the safe.

[RR0004]

If you go to the affidavit thread, the affidavit shows that Kevin G. logged on to change information on Brookes myspace after MJ gave him the user name and password.
I thought it was RG that went on and changed the info!! I am soooo confused. If I go over to the affidavit link I'll fall behind again!!!

[RR0004]

If I'm not mistaken, Gagnon admitted in one of the affidavits that he logged in to her account from TX, but admitted to only changing the last login time.
Phew...you saved me a trip!!

[Busylady]

Ya know thats a good thought, makes me wonder if Gagnon was already in Vermont and the logging into the puter in Texas was to provide alibi that Gagnon was still in Texas.

Gagnon's phone was a cell phone. So phone pings will have to determine where he was. Gagnon could have had Kevin G sign in for him and dump the safe.

[SuziQ]

If I'm not mistaken, Gagnon admitted in one of the affidavits that he logged in to her account from TX, but admitted to only changing the last login time.

If he was telling the truth. Cell phone pings will ultimately tell where Gagnon really was. If Gagnon was not involved in the plot....then why was MJ so eager to call him? As someone else pointed out, MJ already messed with her account earlier in the day. I guess any way you look at it...it was CYA time.

[Busylady]

Lol sorry for the confusion, I have typed Kevin Grosenheiders name so many times in various search engines I had his name on my brain.

I thought it was RG that went on and changed the info!! I am soooo confused. If I go over to the affidavit link I'll fall behind again!!!

[dark_shadows]

I thought it was RG that went on and changed the info!! I am soooo confused. If I go over to the affidavit link I'll fall behind again!!!
My dearest RR,:blowkiss:
No, it was not Kevin, it was Gagnon.,
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[SuziQ]

Ya know thats a good thought, makes me wonder if Gagnon was already in Vermont and the logging into the puter in Texas was to provide alibi that Gagnon was still in Texas.

It's a question that needs an answer.

[RR0004]

My dearest RR,:blowkiss:
No, it was not Kevin, it was Gagnon.,
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Thanks...thought you were asleep, dear DS.
Hope all had a wonderful holiday!

[dark_shadows]

Thanks...thought you were asleep, dear DS.
Hope all had a wonderful holiday!
My very dearest RR,:blowkiss::blowkiss:
I am at my second job. So I am up.
How was our holiday my friend?


So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[MCDRAW]

Ya know thats a good thought, makes me wonder if Gagnon was already in Vermont and the logging into the puter in Texas was to provide alibi that Gagnon was still in Texas.


Surely the police are going on more than the log in to verify his alibi.

[dark_shadows]

Surely the police are going on more than the log in to verify his alibi.
My dearest MCDRAW,:blowkiss:
How are you!!
You are right in saying that.

The Feds already know that it was Gagnon that logged in from Texas.

Hope you had a happy 4th.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[SuziQ]

Surely the police are going on more than the log in to verify his alibi.

I'm sure they are...and we'll find out in the charges on Monday. That could explain the delay in the charges. I just find it weird, that he would suddenly show up in Vermont because Brooke was missing if he had a hand in destroying evidence if he was in Texas. You'd think he'd want to stay away. IMO, he was already here. I've been wrong before though.

ETA: if RG was in Texas on the 25th, then why didn't he dump his safe then?

[RR0004]

Surely the police are going on more than the log in to verify his alibi.
Authorities said Gagnon was on a regular visit to Vermont from Texas when he was arrested Monday.

ok...and somewhere else it said he came up when he heard Brooke was missing, so...which was it?

[i.b.nora]

I say, let's keep it simple:

BT11201072.PDF

Page 6

11. Records obtained from MySpace provided to forensic examiners show the following. The only IP address to log onto Bennett's MySpace page after 10:36:40 p.m. on June 25, 2008 (other than law enforcement) was IP72.177.143.240, which is registered to Kevin Grosenheiden of San Antonio, Texas. There were two log ins from IP 72.177.143.240; one log in at 8:18:39 p.m. PST the second at 8:25:56 p.m. PST. Since the last log by JACQUES' computer, the time on the blog was manually changed to June 25, 2008 at 11:46 a.m PST, suggesting that the blog was edited from IP 72.177.143.240.

Page 8

D. Statements of Raymond GAGNON

15. On June 30, 2008 and July 1, 2008, GAGNON was interviewed by members of the Vermont State Police and the FBI. GAGON admitted that he rents a room for residential purposes from Kevin Grosenheider at 5414 Timber Pond Road, San Antonio, Texas. He also admitted that on June 25, 2008, he accessed Bennett's MySpace page from a laptop computer located at 5414 Timber Pond Road after being given log in information (user name and password) from JACQUES on June 25, 2008. He advised that when he accessed the account, he changed the user name and password to the account. He denied changing any blog posting information.

It doesn't say from his (Gagnon's) computer, it says from a laptop computer located at blah, blah, blah.

I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate or imply that Grosenheiden is involved in this other than to stupidly throw out Grogan's safe and laptop.

[Chica]

Authorities said Gagnon was on a regular visit to Vermont from Texas when he was arrested Monday.

ok...and somewhere else it said he came up when he heard Brooke was missing, so...which was it?

I understood that Gagnon traveled to VT from TX over the weekend. Brooke went 'missing' on Wednesday, June 25.

Brooke's father and wife said they went to a church service over the weekend with Gagnon, who wanted to lend them support . . . just the thought of that makes me throw up in my mouth!
:furious::furious::furious::furious:

[MCDRAW]

My dearest MCDRAW,:blowkiss:
How are you!!
You are right in saying that.

The Feds already know that it was Gagnon that logged in from Texas.

Hope you had a happy 4th.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows


dark_shadows,

I hope everything is okay with you. The 4th was nice. I hope you enjoyed your holiday.

MC

[RR0004]

I say, let's keep it simple:

BT11201072.PDF

Page 6

11. Records obtained from MySpace provided to forensic examiners show the following. The only IP address to log onto Bennett's MySpace page after 10:36:40 p.m. on June 25, 2008 (other than law enforcement) was IP72.177.143.240, which is registered to Kevin Grosenheiden of San Antonio, Texas. There were two log ins from IP 72.177.143.240; one log in at 8:18:39 p.m. PST the second at 8:25:56 p.m. PST. Since the last log by JACQUES' computer, the time on the blog was manually changed to June 25, 2008 at 11:46 a.m PST, suggesting that the blog was edited from IP 72.177.143.240.

Page 8

D. Statements of Raymond GAGNON

15. On June 30, 2008 and July 1, 2008, GAGNON was interviewed by members of the Vermont State Police and the FBI. GAGON admitted that he rents a room for residential purposes from Kevin Grosenheider at 5414 Timber Pond Road, San Antonio, Texas. He also admitted that on June 25, 2008, he accessed Bennett's MySpace page from a laptop computer located at 5414 Timber Pond Road after being given log in information (user name and password) from JACQUES on June 25, 2008. He advised that when he accessed the account, he changed the user name and password to the account. He denied changing any blog posting information.

It doesn't say from his (Gagnon's) computer, it says from a laptop computer located at blah, blah, blah.

I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate or imply that Grosenheiden is involved in this other than to stupidly throw out Grogan's safe and laptop.
Thanks so much for the post!

[RR0004]

I understood that Gagnon traveled to VT from TX over the weekend. Brooke went 'missing' on Wednesday, June 25.

Brooke's father and wife said they went to a church service over the weekend with Gagnon, who wanted to lend them support . . . just the thought of that makes me throw up in my mouth!
:furious::furious::furious::furious:
Yes, I do remember reading that!!

[Busylady]

Very very good question. It would make sense that he would of dumped the safe himself before he left to come to Vermont.

I'm sure they are...and we'll find out in the charges on Monday. That could explain the delay in the charges. I just find it weird, that he would suddenly show up in Vermont because Brooke was missing if he had a hand in destroying evidence if he was in Texas. You'd think he'd want to stay away. IMO, he was already here. I've been wrong before though.

ETA: if RG was in Texas on the 25th, then why didn't he dump his safe then?

[Chica]

Very very good question. It would make sense that he would of dumped the safe himself before he left to come to Vermont.

But Kevin G admitted to dumping the safe - I don't think he would have admitted that if he didn't in fact dump it...

I'm thinking Gagnon was as stupid/naive as MJ as far as law enforcement catching on to what they were up to (thank God!). I don't think either one of them ever dreamed they would be suspected of this, much less caught and charged!

[SuziQ]

Authorities said Gagnon was on a regular visit to Vermont from Texas when he was arrested Monday.

ok...and somewhere else it said he came up when he heard Brooke was missing, so...which was it?

That would be convenient wouldn't it?

[Busylady]

Oh I think Kevin dumped the safe, or hide it elsewhere. The question is was Gagnon already in Vermont on the 25th and Kevin was the one that changed the myspace info? If Gagnon was still in Texas why wouldnt he have dumped the safe himself, instead of risking telling someone about the safe? A normal person is asked to dump a safe, especially when they know that persons step daugther is missing, and assumes child porn was in the safe, would be on the phone so dang fast with law enforcement. To me something just doesnt add up.

But Kevin G admitted to dumping the safe - I don't think he would have admitted that if he didn't in fact dump it...

I'm thinking Gagnon was as stupid/naive as MJ as far as law enforcement catching on to what they were up to (thank God!). I don't think either one of them ever dreamed they would be suspected of this, much less caught and charged!

[RR0004]

My very dearest RR,:blowkiss::blowkiss:
I am at my second job. So I am up.
How was our holiday my friend?


So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
And here I thought you were going to rest and relax today! I hope you did manage to do that, DS. You work so tirelessly for all of us here...you deserve it!

[SuziQ]

But Kevin G admitted to dumping the safe - I don't think he would have admitted that if he didn't in fact dump it...

I'm thinking Gagnon was as stupid/naive as MJ as far as law enforcement catching on to what they were up to (thank God!). I don't think either one of them ever dreamed they would be suspected of this, much less caught and charged!

The point is if RG was in Texas for a day or days after the phone convo's with MJ on the 25th, why didn't he dump the safe then? Possibly because he wasn't in Texas but in Vermont from the at least the 25th on. We have no confirmation that RG was in Texas when he said he was. Anyone, such as Kevin, could have signed on to RG's computer in Texas.

[RR0004]

But Kevin G admitted to dumping the safe - I don't think he would have admitted that if he didn't in fact dump it...

I'm thinking Gagnon was as stupid/naive as MJ as far as law enforcement catching on to what they were up to (thank God!). I don't think either one of them ever dreamed they would be suspected of this, much less caught and charged!
He must really be stupid...I CANNOT believe he didn't get rid of it himself. I'm sure he was aware that Brooke was already dead when he left Texas- which BTW will only add to his ton of other charges (failure to report a crime). Oh boy, is he sick!! But, leaving that stuff behind is just SO unbelievable. I think he was running a business...with his friend the landlord...destroying all the info there would be the last thing he would want to do...especially if he was just a partner in it. I don't think it's in any dumpster.

[dark_shadows]

And here I thought you were going to rest and relax today! I hope you did manage to do that, DS. You work so tirelessly for all of us here...you deserve it!
My dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Nice to see you!

I rested a little lol.

Gagnon will be in court on monday at 1pm. I will be at work at that time.
The question about Gagnon being here in Vermont was brought up when the affidavit was released and it was found out by the Feds that he was not here at the time Brooke disappeared.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[SuziQ]

There is a science to searching landfills. I learned that from the Lori Hacking case. It took awhile to find her. But she was dumped into a commercial dumpster, which is the best scenario. Because they keep specific tabs on what location the garbage ends up. So if this safe (pretty indestructable) was dumped into a commercial dumpster, it should be located fairly intact eventually at the landfill. Now I'm thinking the dumpster is NOT where the safe was disposed of.

BTW, all that was found of Lori Hacking was 15 lbs of her.

[Chica]

He must really be stupid...I CANNOT believe he didn't get rid of it himself. I'm sure he was aware that Brooke was already dead when he left Texas- which BTW will only add to his ton of other charges (failure to report a crime). Oh boy, is he sick!! But, leaving that stuff behind is just SO unbelievable. I think he was running a business...with his friend the landlord...destroying all the info there would be the last thing he would want to do...especially if he was just a partner in it. I don't think it's in any dumpster.

I know what you are saying...this entire thing is so unbelieveable! Every time I think I have something figured out, there are a thousand more questions. You are right - he MUST have known that Brooke was already dead when he left Texas - what else could have possibly happened to her? Even if MJ told him that Brooke had run away, I would think Gagnon would still have stashed the safe before he left...but then why would Kevin G tell the FBI that he dumped it? I just can't wrap my brain around this...:confused:

[SuziQ]

then why would Kevin G tell the FBI that he dumped it? I just can't wrap my brain around this...:confused:

Because Kevin G did dump the safe. Keep in mind, he may have always been the only one in Texas to change the myspace and dump the safe

ETA: other than RG stating to the FBI that he was in Texas on the 25th, we've been given no proof he was. I could be wrong, but I'm suspicious.

[SuziQ]

It doesn't say from his (Gagnon's) computer, it says from a laptop computer located at blah, blah, blah.

I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate or imply that Grosenheiden is involved in this other than to stupidly throw out Grogan's safe and laptop.

Exactly. So how do we know Gagnon signed on to the isp in Texas? One thing is for sure....Kevin G. admitted to being there. It was HIS house and ISP.

[Chica]

Because Kevin G did dump the safe. Keep in mind, he may have always been the only one in Texas to change the myspace and dump the safe.

That is definitely a possibility, but I think Kevin G would have told the FBI that Gagnon was not in TX on June 25, if in fact Gagnon had already left TX for VT. There are so many unanswered questions - I hope we get some answers on Monday when Gagnon is in court!

[evelyn24]

I am hoping that since Kevin G logged on to a computer to change Brookes myspace, they can seize all his computers to check them out?

Woa..I thought it was Ray Gagnon (Brookes stepdad) who logged into her PC at the request of MJ, to change some things around?
You mean to tell me the Kevin G got rid of the safe and played around in Brooke's myspace too?
Why isn't he arrested!!

ETA.
NEVERMIND. I finished reading the thread.

[RR0004]

Ok...here is a question...and forgive me for being a stickler for details, but why does Brooke's obit say this:

She was born July 12, 1995 in Randolph the daughter of James and Cassandra Bennett.

I thought they never married?

[Chica]

Ok...here is a question...and forgive me for being a stickler for details, but why does Brooke's obit say this:

She was born July 12, 1995 in Randolph the daughter of James and Cassandra Bennett.

I thought they never married?

I caught that too, RR. I think it may be a case AGAIN of Cassandra not wanting the family business aired! Sheesh...very sad. (Although it does say later in the obit that she is Cassandra Gagnon. When I first saw 'Cassandra Bennett', I figured it was because she did not want to be affiliated with the Gagnon name, but it is at the end of the notice.)

[dark_shadows]

Woa..I thought it was Ray Gagnon (Brookes stepdad) who logged into her PC at the request of MJ, to change some things around?
You mean to tell me the Kevin G got rid of the safe and played around in Brooke's myspace too?
Why isn't he arrested!!
Dearest Evelyn,:blowkiss:
No, it was Gagnon.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[evelyn24]

If he was telling the truth. Cell phone pings will ultimately tell where Gagnon really was. If Gagnon was not involved in the plot....then why was MJ so eager to call him? As someone else pointed out, MJ already messed with her account earlier in the day. I guess any way you look at it...it was CYA time.

He will not be able to hide his real location during the time frame of Brooke's disappearance if he was using his cell .

[RR0004]

That is definitely a possibility, but I think Kevin G would have told the FBI that Gagnon was not in TX on June 25, if in fact Gagnon had already left TX for VT. There are so many unanswered questions - I hope we get some answers on Monday when Gagnon is in court!
Me, too!!

But, here we have RG brought in for questioning...they confront him with the info about the emails...they want to take a look at the computer...they contact KG (who IMO may be part of some porno business)...oh...the computer is not here...well why not...isn't it your computer?...well RG told me to get rid of it...

I just realized something...the computer WAS missing, right? If it wasn't...as Gilda would say NEVERMIND!
Now as far as the safe? I have NO IDEA who revealed that bit of info

[i.b.nora]

Exactly. So how do we know Gagnon signed on to the isp in Texas? One thing is for sure....Kevin G. admitted to being there. It was HIS house and ISP.

If you believe Grosenheiden, then why don't you believe GAGNON?

D. Statements of Raymond GAGNON

15. On June 30, 2008 and July 1, 2008, GAGNON was interviewed by members of the Vermont State Police and the FBI. GAGON admitted that he rents a room for residential purposes from Kevin Grosenheider at 5414 Timber Pond Road, San Antonio, Texas. He also admitted that on June 25, 2008, he accessed Bennett's MySpace page from a laptop computer located at 5414 Timber Pond Road after being given log in information (user name and password) from JACQUES on June 25, 2008. He advised that when he accessed the account, he changed the user name and password to the account. He denied changing any blog posting information.

[SuziQ]

If you believe Grosenheiden, then why don't you believe GAGNON?

D. Statements of Raymond GAGNON

15. On June 30, 2008 and July 1, 2008, GAGNON was interviewed by members of the Vermont State Police and the FBI. GAGON admitted that he rents a room for residential purposes from Kevin Grosenheider at 5414 Timber Pond Road, San Antonio, Texas. He also admitted that on June 25, 2008, he accessed Bennett's MySpace page from a laptop computer located at 5414 Timber Pond Road after being given log in information (user name and password) from JACQUES on June 25, 2008. He advised that when he accessed the account, he changed the user name and password to the account. He denied changing any blog posting information.

Well for one, Gagnon doesn't want to be placed anywhere near Vermont on the 25th. In fact having Kevin G sign on to the computer in Texas for him and saying it was himself would give him an alibi wouldn't it? An ISP address does not tell who was sitting at the computer when it was signed in on.

[i.b.nora]

Okay, I give up. - i.b.

[dark_shadows]

Okay, I give up. - i.b.
Dearest I.b. nora,:blowkiss:
No, do not give up.

Love and Respec,
dark_shadows

[SuziQ]

Let's look at this another way. How do we know that RG was physically at his computer in Texas? Because he said so? I'm sure the Feds have more information. If RG was not in Vermont, I'm sure we'll find out on Monday.

[RR0004]

If you believe Grosenheiden, then why don't you believe GAGNON?

D. Statements of Raymond GAGNON

15. On June 30, 2008 and July 1, 2008, GAGNON was interviewed by members of the Vermont State Police and the FBI. GAGON admitted that he rents a room for residential purposes from Kevin Grosenheider at 5414 Timber Pond Road, San Antonio, Texas. He also admitted that on June 25, 2008, he accessed Bennett's MySpace page from a laptop computer located at 5414 Timber Pond Road after being given log in information (user name and password) from JACQUES on June 25, 2008. He advised that when he accessed the account, he changed the user name and password to the account. He denied changing any blog posting information.
I just went back to the affidavit as well. I'm only partially cock-eyed...yes, there was a laptop...and no it wasn't KGs which is what I assumed. But, I do believe the KG connection will come out soon. In reading over the affidavit, one of the charges is destruction of evidence...so why not inlude the so-called phone calls to KG? You've included the phone calls to MJ (I realize that it is to connect the two of them), but why not the calls to KG? Maybe that will appear on the next affidavit (?).

[Chica]

New question: Do we know who lives in South Royalton? (I believe that is Vermont.) Gagnon states in his affidavit that he was staying at a residence in South Royalton in June 2007 when MJ and Juvenile 1 went there to engage in sex with Gagnon...did Gagnon live in VT in June 2007, or was he staying with someone???

[dark_shadows]

Believe me, the Feds know where Gagnon was...

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[RR0004]

Believe me, the Feds know where Gagnon was...

Respectfully,
dark_shadows
I believe ya!!

[dark_shadows]

I believe ya!!
My very dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Thank-you my friend.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[RR0004]

Night-night everyone...."see" you all tomorrow!

[dark_shadows]

Night-night everyone...."see" you all tomorrow!
Dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Goodnight my friend, sleep good.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Busylady]

MJ and Gagnon spoke 4 or 6 times the night of the 25th, Gagnon would of known at that point Brooke was dead. Gagnon did not go to the police with this information. When he was questioned by police and fbi on 6/30 and 7/1 he still did not come clean with he knew Brooke was dead. In my opinion if he had not been involved in this plan with Brooke in some way, when MJ spoke to him on the phone he would of contacted police right away and said I just got a call from MJ he killed Brooke and wants me to alter her myspace login etc. Instead he goes ahead and alters the myspace to help a friend out, yet doesnt destroy evidence in his that could put him in prison for a long time and heads to Vermont? Im not buying it.

He had to be thinking right away if MJ gets caught, he will tell about the sexual assault on A.R., he will tell about the porn etc so I need to destroy what evidence I have immediately, but he didnt do that? By covering for MJ he put himself in for alot more charges, doesnt make sense.

[Chica]

Night-night everyone...."see" you all tomorrow!

I'm right behind you RR...I so wish we could all sit around a huge table and discuss this...:blowkiss:

Good night all!:wink:

[evelyn24]

Well for one, Gagnon doesn't want to be placed anywhere near Vermont on the 25th. In fact having Kevin G sign on to the computer in Texas for him and saying it was himself would give him an alibi wouldn't it? An ISP address does not tell who was sitting at the computer when it was signed in on.

I think the purpose in having RG log into Brooke's myspace on the 25th to change the login date was another attempt by MJ make it look like Brooke was alive late in the evening on the 25th..lending more credence that she ran off with someone on myspace.
I don't think Kevin G was the one who logged into Brooke's account on behalf of Ray Gagnon who was already in Vermont (in your theory).
I think it is what it is...RG logged in at the request of MJ while he was still in Texas.
Why didn't he throw away his own child porno safe? Who knows. Maybe he didn't realize how quickly LE was figuring things out, and once he was in Vermont he knew poo had hit the fan, and that's when he called Kevin to remove the safe.
imo

[Busylady]

Don't give up, this is the way it works everyone tossing different ideas etc around. No one is right or wrong, but if we all put our heads together we can see things at a different angle maybe or pick up on something that we have missed.

Okay, I give up. - i.b.

[SuziQ]

He had to be thinking right away if MJ gets caught, he will tell about the sexual assault on A.R., he will tell about the porn etc so I need to destroy what evidence I have immediately, but he didnt do that? By covering for MJ he put himself in for alot more charges, doesnt make sense.

Once again, I could be wrong, but the only reason I can think of is RG was already in Vermont.

DS, yes the Feds do know where RG was on the 25th. But all we've been told is what RG said in the affidavits.

[dark_shadows]

Don't give up, this is the way it works everyone tossing different ideas etc around. No one is right or wrong, but if we all put our heads together we can see things at a different angle maybe or pick up on something that we have missed.
My dearest Buzylady,:blowkiss:
I.b. nora is not a new poster... LOL, but it is nice of you to ask her to stay.

Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[Busylady]

Thats all that makes sense to me as well.

Once again, I could be wrong, but the only reason I can think of is RG was already in Vermont.

DS, yes the Feds do know where RG was on the 25th. But all we've been told is what RG said in the affidavits.

[SuziQ]

I think the purpose in having RG log into Brooke's myspace on the 25th to change the login date was another attempt by MJ make it look like Brooke was alive late in the evening on the 25th..lending more credence that she ran off with someone on myspace.

I totally get why the myspace was changed. But how do we know that RG was in Texas to change the myspace? It could have been anyone sitting at his computer at that ISP address in Texas. If RG or MJ were in Vermont on the 25th, either one could have called Kevin to do it.

[Leila]

I understood that Gagnon traveled to VT from TX over the weekend. Brooke went 'missing' on Wednesday, June 25.

Brooke's father and wife said they went to a church service over the weekend with Gagnon, who wanted to lend them support . . . just the thought of that makes me throw up in my mouth!
:furious::furious::furious::furious:

I remember reading that too. I can't imagine how the Bennetts feel, knowing that they attended church with Gagnon, who's now under arrest and may have played a role in their child's abduction/murder.

[dark_shadows]

I remember reading that too. I can't imagine how the Bennetts feel, knowing that they attended church with Gagnon, who's now under arrest and may have played a role in their child's abduction/murder.
Dearest Leila,:blowkiss:
I saw that also, but I have read so many articles that my head is spinning! I am not saving articles any longer. It slows my computor.

Anyone have the link???


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Leila]

The point is if RG was in Texas for a day or days after the phone convo's with MJ on the 25th, why didn't he dump the safe then? Possibly because he wasn't in Texas but in Vermont from the at least the 25th on. We have no confirmation that RG was in Texas when he said he was. Anyone, such as Kevin, could have signed on to RG's computer in Texas.

And if Ray Gagnon was in Vermont, he may have helped MJ murder Brooke. And if Kevin dumped the safe and signed on to Brooke's MySpace page and altered it, he's an accessory. :mad:

Edited to add.........this case is very confusing! If Ray Gagnon knew that Brooke was dead on June 25th (phone conversations with MJ), and he didn't tell LE, then there had to be a reason why he went to Vermont, other than to comfort the family. Keeping silent about what he knew, and having Kevin dump his safe, it sounds like Gagnon was trying to clean up a mess and cover up any trails leading to him (and others?), all while putting on a front that he's a concerned family member.

[Busylady]

Can't find a link just another message board that has the full article - snipped part of it

“He came because of what’s going on, supposedly to support the family,” Bennett said. Bennett said he and his wife, Ray Gagnon and Cassandra Gagnon went to church together on Sunday to pray for Brooke’s safe return.

Search for missing Vermont girl in 'critical stage'

Sam Hemingway
Burlington Free Press
July 2, 2008

[Busylady]

Think partly what is concerning me, and I know the FBI and LE is doing a fantastic job etc, but Kevin G. seems to have a few lawyers in his family which always makes me nervous when it comes to this stuff.

[dark_shadows]

Can't find a link just another message board that has the full article - snipped part of it

“He came because of what’s going on, supposedly to support the family,” Bennett said. Bennett said he and his wife, Ray Gagnon and Cassandra Gagnon went to church together on Sunday to pray for Brooke’s safe return.

Search for missing Vermont girl in 'critical stage'

Sam Hemingway
Burlington Free Press
July 2, 2008
My dearest Buzylady,:blowkiss:
Thank-you so much.
So was it the weekend of the 28th?


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[dark_shadows]

Dearest Buzylady,:blowkiss:
Gagnon is going in front of Judge Jerome Niedermeier on monday. I hope that you have read up about him.
:eek:


http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9057740&pageNumber=2



Love and Respect,
dark_shadows




http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1316401982

[dark_shadows]

Think partly what is concerning me, and I know the FBI and LE is doing a fantastic job etc, but Kevin G. seems to have a few lawyers in his family which always makes me nervous when it comes to this stuff.
Dearest Buzylady,:blowkiss:
Yes, the lawyers and the judge he is going in front of is the concern!!!

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Busylady]

dark_shadows thank you for the article any chance they will be able to request a different Judge?

[dark_shadows]

My dearest Buzylady,:blowkiss:
No, that is who he is going in front of 1pm monday.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Busylady]

Well darn!

My dearest Buzylady,:blowkiss:
No, that is who he is going in front of 1pm monday.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[dark_shadows]

I have met this man and he is very very good.
This man will be in court on monday at the detention hearing.
First Assistant United States Attorney;
http://www.rarolc.net/contributors/bio.php?id=338

Gagnon's lawyer (Pacht);

http://www.hoffcurtis.com/

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[dark_shadows]

Where did Buzylady go??:(

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Busylady]

That makes me feel better!! We need someone on there very very good!

I have met this man and he is very very good.
This man will be in court on monday at the detention hearing.
First Assistant United States Attorney;
http://www.rarolc.net/contributors/bio.php?id=338

Gagnon's lawyer (Pacht);

http://www.hoffcurtis.com/

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[dottierainbow]

My theory in why MJ had Gagnon log on to Brooke's myspace from Texas is to make it look like from the ISP make it appear that Brooke had made it to Texas.
Ya know thats a good thought, makes me wonder if Gagnon was already in Vermont and the logging into the puter in Texas was to provide alibi that Gagnon was still in Texas.

[dark_shadows]

My theory in why MJ had Gagnon log on to Brooke's myspace from Texas is to make it look like from the ISP make it appear that Brooke had made it to Texas.

My dearest Dottierainbow,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for your post.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Cornflower]

I hope they find the harddrive to MJ that´s missing. I´m sure he didn´t destroy it, it contains information he wants to keep and look again. He has hidden it somewhere safe.

[believe09]

So if Kevin G. is party to the child porn by either looking at it, collecting it, or whatever...he knew about Michael Jacques and Ray Gagnon's sexual relationship with AR. This definitely adds a new player. With his nephew already having been arrested, it sounds like it could be a "family" thing with them, too. We could have our 3rd man then.

I haven't caught up with the last 100 posts, lol, but this was my feeling as soon as he said Gagnon had asked him to dump the safe....

[angelmom]

Great. A fruitcake judge. Just what makes Vermont so special. :rolleyes:

[missVT77]

Hello all. I was awake half the night because I could not get the details of this case out of my mind. It is the most evil plot I have ever heard of or could have concieved.

[SeriouslySearching]

For those who might be just joining in or trying to get caught up, here is like a cliff notes version up until now. Someone posted this yesterday by VTGirl81. I wanted to post it in the media links thread but it's not really a media link, so here it is.

http://www.jurorthirteen.com/BrookeBennettMurder/tabid/545/Default.aspxPlease feel free to post it in the media links thread. Even blogs are news. :)

[Liz]

I just posted this is the my space link thread for Savanna. Do either of these girls' pics look like Brooke's sister to you?

http://www.myspace.com/74770694

(Please feel free to let me know if this shouldn't have been posted in the myspace links thread.)

[believe09]

Hello all. I was awake half the night because I could not get the details of this case out of my mind. It is the most evil plot I have ever heard of or could have concieved.


Ditto, and yet totally bumbling if that makes sense. Too many people, too many steps, too much conspiracy...I keep waiting to hear it was at least for some kind of sick gain like selling a film to a distributor for millions of dollars...maybe it was ultimately about maintaining control over AR by creating the scenario of the second child in the ring being murdered just as MJ said...perhaps ultimately by setting up Juvenile 2 as the killer, MJ would have fufilled his fantasies of total control over AR, and torturing a child sadistically (Brooke).

[SeriouslySearching]

Hello all. I was awake half the night because I could not get the details of this case out of my mind. It is the most evil plot I have ever heard of or could have concieved.Awww. Sorry, MissVT. Sometimes these cases do cause sleepless nights. This one, in particular, is especially troubling. It is truly a diabolical plot. You just can't make this stuff up in a normal brain. This is why it is so difficult to digest.

One problem I am having with it is that now there are lightbulbs going off in every pervert's head of how to perfect this plot.

[Liz]

Please feel free to post it in the media links thread. Even blogs are news. :)

Done! :)

[SeriouslySearching]

I just posted this is the my space link thread for Savanna. Do either of these girls' pics look like Brooke's sister to you?

http://www.myspace.com/74770694No. I think that might just be a friend of Brooke's. The poster is 15 yo and we know that Savannah is 17-18 yo. (Plus, pretty sure spells her name with h on the end.)

[SeriouslySearching]

I think we got a bit ahead of ourselves on Gagnon being in VT at the time of the murder. I understand the confusion, but the affidavit clearly states that RG admitted to being the one to sign onto Brooke's account (from KG's IP address because he lives with him). Don't forget the phone calls back and forth between RG and MJ. LE knows EXACTLY where Ray was at the time. I will have to trust they have checked it out completely and they charged him accordingly so far.

[MCDRAW]

In my opinion, Gagnon was in Texas. I think M.J. called him and asked him to change the screen name, password, and time. I think he said Brooke ran off and you know the first person they will look at is me. I think M.J. got Gagnon to do this by saying if they start checking me out, they will find you out too. I'm sure M.J. had pictures of Gagnon having sex with A.R. , something to hold over his head. I just don't see Gagnon having anything to do with Brooke's death (I could be very wrong) until after the fact. If Gagnon had been molesting children for any length of time, I wonder how he got away with it for so long?

[Liz]

No. I think that might just be a friend of Brooke's. The poster is 15 yo and we know that Savannah is 17-18 yo. (Plus, pretty sure spells her name with h on the end.)


According to Brooke's obit (http://www.dayfunerals.com/index.cfm), there is no "h" at the end of Brooke's sister's name, Savanna.

[MCDRAW]

Awww. Sorry, MissVT. Sometimes these cases do cause sleepless nights. This one, in particular, is especially troubling. It is truly a diabolical plot. You just can't make this stuff up in a normal brain. This is why it is so difficult to digest.

One problem I am having with it is that now there are lightbulbs going off in every pervert's head of how to perfect this plot.


I worry about that too.

[missVT77]

> One problem I am having with it is that now there are lightbulbs going off in every pervert's head of how to perfect this plot.

I hope not! Although with Jacques and maybe other people around here in cahoots to do such a horrible thing, and then with the ex-stepfather knowing SOMETHING about it and willing to help cover up at least, it makes you wonder just how many truly evil people with no morals there are out there. And they are interacting with us and seem normal but yet would be willing to at least assist in this being done to a child.

Just the little bit that has come out here indicates two adults and one child were willing. If it came down to it, what percentage of the population would also help out? It makes you lose faith in humanity.

[SeriouslySearching]

According to Brooke's obit (http://www.dayfunerals.com/index.cfm), there is no "h" at the end of Brooke's sister's name, Savanna.Obits can be wrong. Every spelling I have seen includes the h at the end of her name...including her own myspace page. Here is an article which mentions her:

"I hope Brooke knows I'm with her and I will always be with her," she said, standing next to Brooke's older sister Savannah Andress.

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080703/NEWS/310275644

ETA: I stand corrected, she doesn't put an h on the end of it on her myspace. Still..why would she put that she is only 15 yo?

[missVT77]

I guess it is up to each parent to thoroughly investigate the background of any adult male who is in contact with their children, especially close family members. And if the man has had any kind of sex offence in the past to not let them around your children unsupervised, not ever.

It is not like the evil Jacques struck without any warning. There was the weird childhood abuse of his sister, then the abducting that other woman who lived. I would like to leave the door open to a man being able to be rehabilitated, but they should never ever be allowed around children again.

However Jacques did not have any child-sex charges against him. That other woman was adult. So it would be hard to predict that he would go for children after that event. Especially if a judge and everyone said he was rehabilitated.

[MCDRAW]

M.J. went to elaborate plans to abduct, torture, rape and kill Brooke. If he intended to use that machine on Brooke...he had to have know that it would cause trauma. She would have eventually told, I'm sure there would have been an investigation. This can only mean he intended to kill her. (Just thinking out loud here) I was leaning more toward him not intending on killing her. But they just went about it too violently (talking about tieing her up, taesering her). I think he meant to kill her and he wanted to by a certain date. The question is why?

[Medea]

In my opinion, Gagnon was in Texas. I think M.J. called him and asked him to change the screen name, password, and time. I think he said Brooke ran off and you know the first person they will look at is me. I think M.J. got Gagnon to do this by saying if they start checking me out, they will find you out too. I'm sure M.J. had pictures of Gagnon having sex with A.R. , something to hold over his head. I just don't see Gagnon having anything to do with Brooke's death (I could be very wrong) until after the fact. If Gagnon had been molesting children for any length of time, I wonder how he got away with it for so long?


I agree, I don't think Gagnon had anything to do w/Brooke's murder. He was in Texas when it happened. He may have helped after the fact once he got to Vermont, disposing of other evidence, etc., hard to say at this point.

IMO he got away with molesting children the same way Jacques did...because kids don't tell and when they do, a great many people refuse to believe them..it is much, much easier to believe a child is making up a lie than to believe a mother/father/stepfather/uncle would be having sex with them.

[MCDRAW]

I guess it is up to each parent to thoroughly investigate the background of any adult male who is in contact with their children, especially close family members. And if the man has had any kind of sex offence in the past to not let them around your children unsupervised, not ever.

It is not like the evil Jacques struck without any warning. There was the weird childhood abuse of his sister, then the abducting that other woman who lived. I would like to leave the door open to a man being able to be rehabilitated, but they should never ever be allowed around children again.

However Jacques did not have any child-sex charges against him. That other woman was adult. So it would be hard to predict that he would go for children after that event. Especially if a judge and everyone said he was rehabilitated.


And as far as I know Gagnon didn't have any sex crimes charges against him.

[Medea]

I guess it is up to each parent to thoroughly investigate the background of any adult male who is in contact with their children, especially close family members. And if the man has had any kind of sex offence in the past to not let them around your children unsupervised, not ever.

It is not like the evil Jacques struck without any warning. There was the weird childhood abuse of his sister, then the abducting that other woman who lived. I would like to leave the door open to a man being able to be rehabilitated, but they should never ever be allowed around children again.

However Jacques did not have any child-sex charges against him. That other woman was adult. So it would be hard to predict that he would go for children after that event. Especially if a judge and everyone said he was rehabilitated.


He's been abusing women since he was eleven. He "successfully" already completed sex offender treatment, BEFORE he started abusing his step daughter at age 9 and BEFORE he abducted and murdered Brooke.

There is no way to rehabilitate this guy. He has already fooled officials, therapists and his probation officer into believing he changed.

He's a sexual predator and nothing, no amount of therapy will change that.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think the possible reason is MJ needed to produce either photos or a film of the "deed" for others and only had until a specific time. I believe it has to do with the child porn ring both he and RG were into.

[MCDRAW]

I agree, I don't think Gagnon had anything to do w/Brooke's murder. He was in Texas when it happened. He may have helped after the fact once he got to Vermont, disposing of other evidence, etc., hard to say at this point.

IMO he got away with molesting children the same way Jacques did...because kids don't tell and when they do, a great many people refuse to believe them..it is much, much easier to believe a child is making up a lie than to believe a mother/father/stepfather/uncle would be having sex with them.


your right, I know children don't always tell. And they aren't always believed. But molesters do not always start with family and they certainly don't always stick with abusing family members. There are usually warning signs. Gagnon's past stuff may not have come out yet. Really I haven't heard all that much about him.

[SeriouslySearching]

He's been abusing women since he was eleven. He "successfully" already completed sex offender treatment, BEFORE he started abusing his step daughter at age 9 and BEFORE he abducted and murdered Brooke.

There is no way to rehabilitate this guy. He has already fooled officials, therapists and his probation officer into believing he changed.

He's a sexual predator and nothing, no amount of therapy will change that.I thought he was abusing AR DURING the time he was in therapy.

[MCDRAW]

He's been abusing women since he was eleven. He "successfully" already completed sex offender treatment, BEFORE he started abusing his step daughter at age 9 and BEFORE he abducted and murdered Brooke.

There is no way to rehabilitate this guy. He has already fooled officials, therapists and his probation officer into believing he changed.

He's a sexual predator and nothing, no amount of therapy will change that.


I agree.

[MCDRAW]

I thought he was abusing AR DURING the time he was in therapy.


I thought that too.

[SeriouslySearching]

Ray Gagnon isn't listed on any registry that we have found yet. (It won't be long now before he is tho!) I don't believe anyone has found a record for him, but not positive on that.

[gigi2009]

Ray Gagnon isn't listed on any registry that we have found yet. I don't believe anyone has found a record for him, but not positive on that.


IIRC, Gagnon was arrested for sexually assaulting a minor occurring last summer in Royalton.

Gagnon had been scheduled to be arraigned Tuesday on a sexual assault charge involving a minor but the arraignment was canceled as federal authorities took over. At an afternoon news conference, state police head Col. James Baker said that case was still being investigated and the charge could be refiled.

[MCDRAW]

IIRC, Gagnon was arrested for sexually assaulting a minor occurring last summer in Royalton.

Gagnon had been scheduled to be arraigned Tuesday on a sexual assault charge involving a minor but the arraignment was canceled as federal authorities took over. At an afternoon news conference, state police head Col. James Baker said that case was still being investigated and the charge could be refiled.


Doesn't this have to do with A.R.'s case.

[MCDRAW]

IIRC, Gagnon was arrested for sexually assaulting a minor occurring last summer in Royalton.

Gagnon had been scheduled to be arraigned Tuesday on a sexual assault charge involving a minor but the arraignment was canceled as federal authorities took over. At an afternoon news conference, state police head Col. James Baker said that case was still being investigated and the charge could be refiled.


Doesn't this have to do with A.R.'s case?

[becca]

I know I'm pages behind, but something just struck me as odd...IF Brooke was running away TO Texas, wouldn't it have looked better for RG to stay in Tx just incase she tried to call or get to him for help? He messed up by not calling LE right when he found out and they would have told him to stay put by a phone.

[MCDRAW]

Sorry about the double post. I didn't think it posted.

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Gigi! Yes, you are right...but he was just arrested for that so no conviction yet. (I believe the minor girl was AR.)

Ray Gagnon, 40, of San Antonio, Texas, was initially taken into custody on state charges that he sexually assaulted a minor in the Royalton area in 2007. However by noontime Tuesday, prosecutors opted instead to file federal obstruction of justice charges in U.S. District Court in Burlington. Gagnon is scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday.

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080702/NEWS/901729179

[gigi2009]

I thought that too.


I completely suck at math but if AR is 14 and the abuse began at nine years old and according to Foxnews "He successfully completed the state's sex offender treatment program in 2000 and was released from probation in 2006." Then MJ was definately on probation while he started on AR. ALthough you have to figure these POS usually have to have at least one victim so who came right before AR? Could it have been the victim in Royalton? And maybe that's what MJ had over gagnon?

[MCDRAW]

I know I'm pages behind, but something just struck me as odd...IF Brooke was running away TO Texas, wouldn't it have looked better for RG to stay in Tx just incase she tried to call or get to him for help? He messed up by not calling LE right when he found out and they would have told him to stay put by a phone.


This was all an elaborate plan/lie by M.J., I'm not certain that Gagnon knew all the details. Just my opinion.

[SeriouslySearching]

I know I'm pages behind, but something just struck me as odd...IF Brooke was running away TO Texas, wouldn't it have looked better for RG to stay in Tx just incase she tried to call or get to him for help? He messed up by not calling LE right when he found out and they would have told him to stay put by a phone.Brooke wasn't running away TO Tx. Her myspace was set up by MJ and RG to reflect that as a cover story.

Gagnon WAS in TX during the time of the murder, imo.

[gigi2009]

Thankyou for the welcome! I didn't know it was referring to AR. She was in Royalton? I'm not familiar with the area at all.

[Medea]

Doesn't this have to do with A.R.'s case.

Yes. Another reason why I believe he had nothing to do with murdering Brooke.

He confirmed that he had sex with AR last summer, so she was probably 13 at the time and he confirms that he saw Jacques having sex with her.

Of course, like all rapists, he downplays what happened and blames her for initiating it...she reached for his penis. Hmm, right. He also denies intercourse w/her but admits the oral sex.

He also admits he had 5 years worth of child pornography.

At this point, with all that he has admitted, if he participated in Brooke's death, why not admit that too in return for no DP? Gagnon is going away for 20-40 years.

I do wonder if he abused Brooke or if he has abused others, or if Jacques just handed AR to him on a silver platter and that is his only active sex crime beyond being a conneseur of child porn.

[SeriouslySearching]

Thankyou for the welcome! I didn't know it was referring to AR. She was in Royalton? I'm not familiar with the area at all.Royalton is five miles from Bethel, VT where MJ lives.

[Liz]

IIRC, Gagnon was arrested for sexually assaulting a minor occurring last summer in Royalton.

Gagnon had been scheduled to be arraigned Tuesday on a sexual assault charge involving a minor but the arraignment was canceled as federal authorities took over. At an afternoon news conference, state police head Col. James Baker said that case was still being investigated and the charge could be refiled.


Thanks for jarring my memory, Gigi! And, welcome to WS! :)

:Welcome-12-june:

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes. Another reason why I believe he had nothing to do with murdering Brooke.

He confirmed that he had sex with AR last summer, so she was probably 13 at the time and he confirms that he saw Jacques having sex with her.

Of course, like all rapists, he downplays what happened and blames her for initiating it...she reached for his penis. Hmm, right. He also denies intercourse w/her but admits the oral sex.

He also admits he had 5 years worth of child pornography.

At this point, with all that he has admitted, if he participated in Brooke's death, why not admit that too in return for no DP? Gagnon is going away for 20-40 years.

I do wonder if he abused Brooke or if he has abused others, or if Jacques just handed AR to him on a silver platter and that is his only active sex crime beyond being a conneseur of child porn.I would have to assume he has abused others. He was in pretty deep for this to be a "new thing" for him.

[MCDRAW]

Welcome to WS, Gigi! Yes, you are right...but he was just arrested for that so no conviction yet. (I believe the minor girl was AR.)

Ray Gagnon, 40, of San Antonio, Texas, was initially taken into custody on state charges that he sexually assaulted a minor in the Royalton area in 2007. However by noontime Tuesday, prosecutors opted instead to file federal obstruction of justice charges in U.S. District Court in Burlington. Gagnon is scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday.

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080702/NEWS/901729179


you know I wonder if Gagnon really had sex with A.R. or if it was a lie Jacques told her to say thus the dropping of state crimes. ( I know the three teenagers in Alabama that burned the churches have both state and federal charges). I also wondered if Jacques got him drunk then brought A.R. in...so he could hold it over Gagnon's head. Jacques had a plan. He is very devious not to mention pure evil. I'm not saying Gagnon is innocent, he did have child porn. I just think that Jacques was so evil and trying to cover all bases, I wouldn't put it past him. I'm surprised he didn't kill A.R.

[SeriouslySearching]

I am hoping more victims will come forward. However, I think it will take much reassurance before they do that neither man will get out of jail anytime soon on some stupid low bail set by some wacko Judge.

[MCDRAW]

ok, I didn't realize that Gagnon admitted to having sex with A.R.

[SeriouslySearching]

you know I wonder if Gagnon really had sex with A.R. or if it was a lie Jacques told her to say thus the dropping of state crimes. ( I know the three teenagers in Alabama that burned the churches have both state and federal charges). I also wondered if Jacques got him drunk then brought A.R. in...so he could hold it over Gagnon's head. Jacques had a plan. He is very devious not to mention pure evil. I'm not saying Gagnon is innocent, he did have child porn. I just think that Jacques was so evil and trying to cover all bases, I wouldn't put it past him. I'm surprised he didn't kill A.R.Gagnon himself told them, not MJ, IIRC. I have no question in my mind that RG had sex with AR...the only thing is to what extent. He denied intercourse and I don't believe him there. He was in a threesome with AR and MJ...which was fulfilling maybe more than one of his sexual fantasies so why stop at the bj? He had a willing 13 yo at his disposal to with as he wanted.

[gigi2009]

Gagnon also said he had pictures of AR with Juv2.

[MCDRAW]

I would have to assume he has abused others. He was in pretty deep for this to be a "new thing" for him.


All I have heard about is the child porn and sex with A.R. so it really could have been a "new thing" for him. It certainly would have continued. Thankfully, he's locked up now...I hope he will be for the rest of his life.

[Liz]

I think the possible reason is MJ needed to produce either photos or a film of the "deed" for others and only had until a specific time. I believe it has to do with the child porn ring both he and RG were into.


This is what I believe, too. MJ probably got paid many times over the money he invested in that sexual equipment.

Speculating here that RG was the 'distributor', hence the reason he'd be willing to help doctor myspace pages.

[Medea]

I would have to assume he has abused others. He was in pretty deep for this to be a "new thing" for him.

Probably, but not everyone who likes child porn actually physically abuses children themselves. Or, with a lot of them, like Westerfield, it takes them years and years of obsessing to finally work up the nerve to attack a live person. He was Brooke's stepfather so in all probability IF he abused any child, it would have been Brooke. I can't make a judgement on that yet.

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, RG's hands are as dirty as MJ's when it comes to AR. They are both scumsuckingsobs.

[MCDRAW]

Gagnon himself told them, not MJ, IIRC. I have no question in my mind that RG had sex with AR...the only thing is to what extent. He denied intercourse and I don't believe him there. He was in a threesome with AR and MJ...which was fulfilling maybe more than one of his sexual fantasies so why stop at the bj? He had a willing 13 yo at his disposal to with as he wanted.


oh, I agree. It was more than the bj.

[Liz]

ok, I didn't realize that Gagnon admitted to having sex with A.R.


I don't think he did. Gagnon said that A.R. 'reached for his penis' (and then I think preformed oral (SEX)), while she was having (traditional) sex with MJ. (I guess that means he had to be standing there naked! :rolleyes:)



Edited to add words "sex" and "traditional", lest I be accused of inferring Gagnon is an innocent bystander!

[SeriouslySearching]

Probably, but not everyone who likes child porn actually physically abuses children themselves. Or, with a lot of them, like Westerfield, it takes them years and years of obsessing to finally work up the nerve to attack a live person. He was Brooke's stepfather so in all probability IF he abused any child, it would have been Brooke. I can't make a judgement on that yet.I don't believe that. I think child porn and molestation of children go hand in hand. We may not hear about it, but they are not just "viewing" it.

[becca]

Brooke wasn't running away TO Tx. Her myspace was set up by MJ and RG to reflect that as a cover story.

Gagnon WAS in TX during the time of the murder, imo.
I know that, what I'm saying is what he did made him look guilty... if he had been smart and they wanted the runaway ruse to work- he should have stayed in TX.

[gigi2009]

I assume we'll be hearing something today hopefully about COD or TOD since the funeral arragements have been made. I also wonder how MJ got her to where she was found because I haven't read anything about his vehicle being searched.

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't think he did. Gagnon said that A.R. 'reached for his penis' (and then I think preformed oral), while she was having sex with MJ. (I guess that means he had to be standing there naked! :rolleyes:)I would consider a BJ as having sex with AR! Yes, he had to be naked for that to have occurred the way he stated it which tells me that more took place. He wasn't an innocent bystander!

[Medea]

I don't believe that. I think child porn and molestation of children go hand in hand. We may not hear about it, but they are not just "viewing" it.

There are a lot of cases where people were sent to prison for possesion of child porn and NO victims came forward or were found. I have to disagree with that, there is a huge difference between passively viewing the abuse of a child where someone else has taken all the risks of getting caught, the child teling, fighting back, etc. and going out and finding your own victim.

[becca]

I don't think he did. Gagnon said that A.R. 'reached for his penis' (and then I think preformed oral), while she was having sex with MJ. (I guess that means he had to be standing there naked! :rolleyes:)

To my way of thinking that would be a threesome... so he was more than willing.

[nanandjim]

Probably, but not everyone who likes child porn actually physically abuses children themselves...
Isn't it against the law to possess child pornography? There has to be something seriously demented about someone who enjoys seeing an innocent child sexually abused.

[SeriouslySearching]

I assume we'll be hearing something today hopefully about COD or TOD since the funeral arragements have been made. I also wonder how MJ got her to where she was found because I haven't read anything about his vehicle being searched.I am sure we won't hear anything until Monday as this is a holiday weekend. Unless there are more arrests over the weekend...media and LE won't be putting things out there.

They have served over 25 search warrants in connection to MJ. I am sure the car/truck has been stripped to the limit and all evidence is being processed. We don't know where the actual crime scene is. Did he kill her upstairs or by the sugarshack? He could have forced her to walk to the sugarshack.

[Medea]

Isn't it against the law to possess child pornography? There has to be something seriously demented about someone who enjoys seeing an innocent child sexually abused.

Yes, its against the law, but I still don't think that most viewers of child porn are abusing actual children, that is why for so long the child porn sentences were really light, and finally the laws were changed in recognition of the fact that w/out the 'market' these children wouldn't be abused on film.

However, I still don't believe it is the "same" as actually, physically abusing a child and I don't think most people who view child porn abuse children, the stats just don't back that up.

[becca]

Isn't it against the law to possess child pornography? There has to be something seriously demented about someone who enjoys seeing an innocent child sexually abused.

Yes it against Federal law to possess or distribute child porn in any form... online, pics, mags, doesn't matter. You get caught you go to prison.

[MCDRAW]

There are a lot of cases where people were sent to prison for possesion of child porn and NO victims came forward or were found. I have to disagree with that, there is a huge difference between passively viewing the abuse of a child where someone else has taken all the risks of getting caught, the child teling, fighting back, etc. and going out and finding your own victim.


Why on earth would anyone want to watch that! In my opinion they are still taking part in victimizing that child.

[Liz]

I know that, what I'm saying is what he did made him look guilty... if he had been smart and they wanted the runaway ruse to work- he should have stayed in TX.


RG was scheduled for a court appearance in Royalton, I believe on Monday the 2nd, and the authorities arrested him as he was going in for his hearing.

And, since it was for some offense involving a minor, I think he was already on their radar.

Plus, there was no runaway ruse, afaik. IIRC, Brooke had an upcoming (planned trip) to Texas on her agenda.

[SeriouslySearching]

I know that, what I'm saying is what he did made him look guilty... if he had been smart and they wanted the runaway ruse to work- he should have stayed in TX.He was in TX until after she went missing when he came to VT to "be supportive". Cassandra may have asked him to come.

[Moe]

This is one tough case to follow, poor Brooke my heart breaks for her. Regarding Monday's hearing, is this judge one who has given light sentences to sex offenders in the past? Is he the one Bill O'Rielly investigated?

[becca]

RG was scheduled for a court appearance in Royalton, I believe on Monday the 2nd, and the authorities arrested him as he was going in for his hearing.

And, since it was for some offense involving a minor, I think he was already on their radar.

Plus, there was no runaway ruse, afaik. IIRC, Brooke had an upcoming (planned trip) to Texas on her agenda.

By changing her myspace to make it look like she ranaway it became a ruse ... her trip wasn't planned for that Wed.

[Medea]

Why on earth would anyone want to watch that! In my opinion they are still taking part in victimizing that child.


They watch it because they're perverts, and yes, they are still taking part in the victimization of a child.

But, which is worse? Viewing the abuse that someone else has actually committed or committing it yourself? I would say that as bad as viewing/buying child porn is, it is not as bad as abusing a child yourself.

So, to me, Gagnon, while a pervert who deserves to go to prison is still not as bad as Jacques, who willfully has destroyed the life and mind of a little child every day for five years. To me, the evil that it takes to abuse and twist the mind of a child is simply not comparable to some guy watching it on his laptop.

[Liz]

I would consider a BJ as having sex with AR! Yes, he had to be naked for that to have occurred the way he stated it which tells me that more took place. He wasn't an innocent bystander!

Not if you ask Bill Clinton. lol

Please, I'm by no means trying to imply that RG is an innocent bystander!
(Please forgive me for not putting the word "SEX" after oral!)

[gigi2009]

I am sure we won't hear anything until Monday as this is a holiday weekend. Unless there are more arrests over the weekend...media and LE won't be putting things out there.

They have served over 25 search warrants in connection to MJ. I am sure the car/truck has been stripped to the limit and all evidence is being processed. We don't know where the actual crime scene is. Did he kill her upstairs or by the sugarshack? He could have forced her to walk to the sugarshack.


Thankyou, I completely forgot that today is Saturday! I have all my days mixed up. I didn't sleep well last night as this has been weighing on my mind.Was there anything reported about Juv2 being interviewed?

[Liz]

This is one tough case to follow, poor Brooke my heart breaks for her. Regarding Monday's hearing, is this judge one who has given light sentences to sex offenders in the past? Is he the one Bill O'Rielly investigated?

No, it's not Cashman. Cashman was forced into retirement (thanks largely to Bill O'Reilly).

However, this lady judge was Cashman's boss; and she could have fired him or forced him to step down and did not. So probably not a whole lot better.

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, its against the law, but I still don't think that most viewers of child porn are abusing actual children, that is why for so long the child porn sentences were really light, and finally the laws were changed in recognition of the fact that w/out the 'market' these children wouldn't be abused on film.

However, I still don't believe it is the "same" as actually, physically abusing a child and I don't think most people who view child porn abuse children, the stats just don't back that up.How would you propose they go about getting those stats? Men who view child porn are the same men who molest them. I do not think that they "passively" watch child porn and never make a move to actually touch a child. I don't believe the carp that NAMBLA or the LGL's of the world want us to believe.
The laws were so light, imo, because some of the men in power to create such laws are some that also participate behind closed doors. Outrage finally won. This is the very reason the laws are so very stict now when it comes to child porn.

Are you taking up for child porn viewers here? I guess I don't understand where you are coming from.

[Moe]

Thank you Liz, perhaps the Cashman episode has taught her a thing or two though.

[SeriouslySearching]

Thankyou, I completely forgot that today is Saturday! I have all my days mixed up. I didn't sleep well last night as this has been weighing on my mind.Was there anything reported about Juv2 being interviewed?Nothing has been reported that I know of, but we know they have extensively questioned him as his DNA was found on her things and he was placed at the scene after the abduction to pick up AR.

[philamena]

I know I'm pages behind, but something just struck me as odd...IF Brooke was running away TO Texas, wouldn't it have looked better for RG to stay in Tx just incase she tried to call or get to him for help? He messed up by not calling LE right when he found out and they would have told him to stay put by a phone.

becca, good morning!
Nevermind. I see that was already addressed. ;)

[SuziQ]

Thankyou, I completely forgot that today is Saturday! I have all my days mixed up. I didn't sleep well last night as this has been weighing on my mind.Was there anything reported about Juv2 being interviewed?

You and me both! I haven't heard anything about Juv2 other than what's in the affidavits.

[SeriouslySearching]

Not if you ask Bill Clinton. lol

Please, I'm by no means trying to imply that RG is an innocent bystander!
(Please forgive me for not putting the word "SEX" after oral!)I must admit the name did pop into my head when I was posting that. :rolleyes:

[SuziQ]

Thank you Liz, perhaps the Cashman episode has taught her a thing or two though.

Unfortunately it didn't, Judge Davenport (Cashman's former boss) is the one who gave MJ low bail and "work curfew".

[adnoid]

Statement from our Governor;


http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8618232

Gov. Jim Douglas, R-Vermont, said Thursday that whoever is responsible for Brooke's murder should face the most severe federal penalty-- the death penalty...

I find it interesting that the Governor feels that the most appropriate penalty is one that his state cannot apply. He is saying that the people of Vermont must look outside their state's legal system if they want justice. Quite a statement.

[Medea]

How would you propose they go about getting those stats? Men who view child porn are the same men who molest them. I do not think that they "passively" watch child porn and never make a move to actually touch a child. I don't believe the carp that NAMBLA or the LGL's of the world want us to believe.
The laws were so light, imo, because some of the men in power to create such laws are some that also participate behind closed doors. Outrage finally won. This is the very reason the laws are so very stict now when it comes to child porn.

Are you taking up for child porn viewers here? I guess I don't understand where you are coming from.

All I am saying is that I don't believe it is the same thing and I don't believe that all or even most who view child pornography are also victimizing children themselves. I believe most of them are living vicariously through the porn images. It is a huge jump that isn't backed up by any evidence to say that all/most people who possess child porn also are abusing victims in their own lives.

Where are Westerfield's other victims? Where is the boy scout leader's victims? There aren't any. When some guy is sent to prison for 30 years for possessing child pornogrpahy, where are his real life victims, who he abused personally? It is one thing for a victim not to come forward on his/her own...but when the person has been proven to be a pervert, arrested w/child porn there is no reason why a victim would not come forward to authorities. So, to me, if you get arrested for child porn and no victims come forward that means you, yourself, did not abuse any children in real life.

People who possess child porn should go to prison. But, to my mind, it is not the same as harming a child yourself, up close and personal.

Pornography on the whole is destructive because most people without porn images of any kind would NEVER in their wildest dreams imagine the things they see..so it increases the chance for devient behavior, it increases the liklihood of deviant behavior but viewing does not automatically equate with doing.

[MCDRAW]

They watch it because they're perverts, and yes, they are still taking part in the victimization of a child.

But, which is worse? Viewing the abuse that someone else has actually committed or committing it yourself? I would say that as bad as viewing/buying child porn is, it is not as bad as abusing a child yourself.

So, to me, Gagnon, while a pervert who deserves to go to prison is still not as bad as Jacques, who willfully has destroyed the life and mind of a little child every day for five years. To me, the evil that it takes to abuse and twist the mind of a child is simply not comparable to some guy watching it on his laptop.


I will never believe that child porn is ok to watch. In Criminal Justice, they teach you that there are steps that rapist take. It may start out as prank calls, then goes to peeping toms, then move on to rapist. I firmly believe that everyone that watches child porn is a molester in the making.

[MCDRAW]

All I am saying is that I don't believe it is the same thing and I don't believe that all or even most who view child pornography are also victimizing children themselves. I believe most of them are living vicariously through the porn images. It is a huge jump that isn't backed up by any evidence to say that all/most people who possess child porn also are abusing victims in their own lives.

Where are Westerfield's other victims? Where is the boy scout leader's victims? There aren't any. When some guy is sent to prison for 30 years for possessing child pornogrpahy, where are his real life victims, who he abused personally? It is one thing for a victim not to come forward on his/her own...but when the person has been proven to be a pervert, arrested w/child porn there is no reason why a victim would not come forward to authorities. So, to me, if you get arrested for child porn and no victims come forward that means you, yourself, did not abuse any children in real life.

People who possess child porn should go to prison. But, to my mind, it is not the same as harming a child yourself, up close and personal.

Pornography on the whole is destructive because most people without porn images of any kind would NEVER in their wildest dreams imagine the things they see..so it increases the chance for devient behavior, it increases the liklihood of deviant behavior but viewing does not automatically equate with doing.


Victims don't come forward because they would have to testify, the reason most rape victims don't come forward.

[becca]

becca, good morning!
Nevermind. I see that was already addressed. ;)

that was my thought but I guess my thoughts weren't right...
good morning to you too

[Moe]

I will never believe that child porn is ok to watch. In Criminal Justice, they teach you that there are steps that rapist take. It may start out as prank calls, then goes to peeping toms, then move on to rapist. I firmly believe that everyone that watches child porn is a molester in the making.
We don't have sick minds like these folks who get their jollies from watching children being persecuted right before their eyes.

[SeriouslySearching]

There are millions of children who do not tell about sexual abuse by someone in authority over them, someone in their family, or other scenarios. Am I surprised that no one came forward in those cases?! No. Do I honestly believe those men had real life victims? Absolutely I do!!

[Beyond Belief]

Its supply and demand. If there was no demand (sicko viewers), then kids wouldn't be abused to meet the demand.

[Liz]

By changing her myspace to make it look like she ranaway it became a ruse ... her trip wasn't planned for that Wed.

I guess it's all in one's perception.

I didn't perceive it to be a ruse about her running away to TX, but rather of one to meet up with a boy.

It's not been confirmed, or even suggested, that the info Brooke had on her page about going to TX was ever altered.

The altering done was with regards to her meeting a boyfriend. And thus the (ruse of the) sperm planted.

[Medea]

I will never believe that child porn is ok to watch. In Criminal Justice, they teach you that there are steps that rapist take. It may start out as prank calls, then goes to peeping toms, then move on to rapist. I firmly believe that everyone that watches child porn is a molester in the making.


I'm not saying its okay to watch. Good grief.

I am saying that not everyone who watches child porn also abuses children in real life.

I absolutely believe that child porn increases the chance that the viewer WILL act on his impulses. What I don't believe is that all or most who watch it are acting on those impulses.

What I will also throw out there is that it is EASY to convict the guy who has 10,000 images of child porn on his computer. That guy is going to jail for 20+ years every time. The father/step father/boyfriend who rapes the children in the house goes unnoticed and unpunished.

How many times are no charges brought because there isn't any physical evidence? How many times to juries refuse to convict on the word of the victim? Do you really believe that a jury would have convicted Jacques back in the 80's? He's having sex w/his 15 year old relative at 18? The only evidence is her word? His lawyer would have said "the relationship was consensual and started last year...once she got pregnant she made up the rape lie to stay out of trouble...and he would have been acquitted. This is the real problem with sex crimes. Victims are not believed unless they are on tape.

[Medea]

Victims don't come forward because they would have to testify, the reason most rape victims don't come forward.


It's not the same thing. Once the perp has been convicted of possessing child pornography any victim would automatically be believed.

Rape victims and child molestation victims don't come forward because no one believes them. That's the real problem. Without irrefutable evidence like child porn on the computer, juries don't believe victims.

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, BB. That is why it is a multi-billion dollar business. Supply and Demand for pervs.

[Medea]

I guess it's all in one's perception.

I didn't perceive it to be a ruse about her running away to TX, but rather of one to meet up with a boy.

It's not been confirmed, or even suggested, that the info Brooke had on her page about going to TX was ever altered.

The altering done was with regards to her meeting a boyfriend. And thus the (ruse of the) sperm planted.



I thought the FBI said that entire email abouit going to Texas with the boyfriend was fabricated by Jacques. Brooke never wrote that.

[MCDRAW]

I'm not saying its okay to watch. Good grief.

I am saying that not everyone who watches child porn also abuses children in real life.

I absolutely believe that child porn increases the chance that the viewer WILL act on his impulses. What I don't believe is that all or most who watch it are acting on those impulses.

What I will also throw out there is that it is EASY to convict the guy who has 10,000 images of child porn on his computer. That guy is going to jail for 20+ years every time. The father/step father/boyfriend who rapes the children in the house goes unnoticed and unpunished.

How many times are no charges brought because there isn't any physical evidence? How many times to juries refuse to convict on the word of the victim? Do you really believe that a jury would have convicted Jacques back in the 80's? He's having sex w/his 15 year old relative at 18? The only evidence is her word? His lawyer would have said "the relationship was consensual and started last year...once she got pregnant she made up the rape lie to stay out of trouble...and he would have been acquitted. This is the real problem with sex crimes. Victims are not believed unless they are on tape.


I believe the relative was his sister. No charges were brought becuase she refused to testify, I believe. His father was also in on it. I'm sure they treatened her notto testify, cooperate etc.

[Liz]

He was in TX until after she went missing when he came to VT to "be supportive". Cassandra may have asked him to come.

No, he was due in court to face sexual assault charges at 1 p.m. on July 1st.
(That was just the lie of a "heartwarming story" RG was giving to folks, to show how much he cared. Just as he went to church with Brooke's dad and step-mom on Sunday .)

http://www.myfoxutah.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=6889403&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[SeriouslySearching]

Everything about running off to TX, imo, was put up by Jacques and Gagnon. It was used to bolster the idea of her meeting a "boy" online and him being the one to abduct her.

[SeriouslySearching]

No, he was due in court to face sexual assault charges at 1 p.m. on July 1st.
(That was just the lie of a "heartwarming story" RG was giving to folks, to show how much he cared. Just as he went to church with Brooke's dad and step-mom on Sunday .)

http://www.myfoxutah.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=6889403&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1Exactly! She went missing on June 25th. RG was arrested and charged AFTER he came back and was interviewed extensively by LE. The fact that he did go to church with them says that he came back under the pretense of "being supportive" to the family. (We actually know now it was to help clean up the mess of MJ's.)

[becca]

I thought the FBI said that entire email abouit going to Texas with the boyfriend was fabricated by Jacques. Brooke never wrote that.

Thank you , that is what I got from it too.
doesn't that make the runaway story a ruse?

[Medea]

I believe the relative was his sister. No charges were brought becuase she refused to testify, I believe. His father was also in on it. I'm sure they treatened her notto testify, cooperate etc.

Let's take AR...if AR had come forward and accused Jacques of raping her, would she have been believed? I would say no. She's independently sexually active w/her boyfriend. All Jacques would have had to say is 'she's lying becuase I didn't want her having sex/w Juvenile 2 and , boom, he's acquitted. Unless she came forward at a time when his DNA was on her, he would never have been convicted.

Children do not come forward because when abusers tell them no one will believe them, its true.

[Busylady]

I think you are corre