Brooke Bennett, 12 years old Randolph VT #12

[w1df10wr]

(Please delete if another member started one by the time this posted. TY)

[RR0004]

Pretty quick for a newcomer...Welcome, BTW!

[galvino]

Thanks for the new thread, w1df10wr! I have to go to bed now- all of this is making my head spin! Gnight all

[philamena]

night galvino
Thanks w1df10wr!

[RR0004]

Yes, that's a good idea...sweet dreams everyone!!

[SeriouslySearching]

Wow! I have to beg people to stop and come over to a new thread!! Good job, W1df10wr!

[missVT77]

If horrible things happened to Brooke, I guess we have to all just believe that she dealt with them like all living things deal with horrible things. And that somewhere, somehow it all becomes even again and evil is repayed in evil and unjust suffering is also repaid with rewards that we can't imagine now. This is what I try to tell myself.

[SeriouslySearching]

Ok...almost answering my own question...if LE thought the actual murder happened in MJ's house...they wouldn't release the house yet...it would no doubt still remain a crime scene until they rule tomorrow, right? The answer to that is no. They would release it if they felt they had garnered all they could from that house. As long as they were there, I believe we will find a LOT of evidence coming out of that house.

[HarvestMoon]

If horrible things happened to Brooke, I guess we have to all just believe that she dealt with them like all living things deal with horrible things. And that somewhere, somehow it all becomes even again and evil is repayed in evil and unjust suffering is also repaid with rewards that we can't imagine now. This is what I try to tell myself.

I hope so too.:(

[cheko1]

Well I'm off here for the night my dear WS friends storms are coming.
Will be back tomorrow....Goodnight all!

It took me half the day to read here & get caught up.......

[galvino]

Allright- It seems I was just threatening to go to sleep now, but I gotta ask-

Did anyone else check out what I had seen about KG in the In Sessions board about his business?

[SeriouslySearching]

If horrible things happened to Brooke, I guess we have to all just believe that she dealt with them like all living things deal with horrible things. And that somewhere, somehow it all becomes even again and evil is repayed in evil and unjust suffering is also repaid with rewards that we can't imagine now. This is what I try to tell myself.When you see how much evil truly exists that people are forced to endure, you have to have some belief that Karma exists. You get what you give in tenfold. Everything this wicked man has done in his lifetime will come back with a vengence upon him. Brooke, at least in my mind, was not allowed to suffer as we could believe. I think when people are in that dire of a situation, their mind literally shuts off all senses at some point to protect them. The trauma is replaced with a sense of calm and fear with a sense of peace. We know that Brooke deserves the good in her life to come back tenfold, too.

[SeriouslySearching]

Allright- It seems I was just threatening to go to sleep now, but I gotta ask-

Did anyone else check out what I had seen about KG in the In Sessions board about his business?I missed that post, Galvino. I would be glad to check it out tho. I thought they worked for some company that did car interiors or seats?

[SeriouslySearching]

Well I'm off here for the night my dear WS friends storms are coming.
Will be back tomorrow....Goodnight all!

It took me half the day to read here & get caught up.......Goodnight, Sweetie!! Hugs~ Keep the roof on and the covers up!

[Leila]

Allright- It seems I was just threatening to go to sleep now, but I gotta ask-

Did anyone else check out what I had seen about KG in the In Sessions board about his business?

I'm still trying to finish reading thread #11, but noted a new thread had been started.

galvino.....................in regards to IS, what thread and page number is the information about KG?

[Tom'sGirl]

I'm still trying to finish reading thread #11, but noted a new thread had been started.

galvino.....................in regards to IS, what thread and page number is the information about KG?
It's here
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=335130&perpage=40&pagenumber=7

[Tom'sGirl]

Allright- It seems I was just threatening to go to sleep now, but I gotta ask-

Did anyone else check out what I had seen about KG in the In Sessions board about his business?
Yes I did!

[SeriouslySearching]

I'm still trying to finish reading thread #11, but noted a new thread had been started.I know! I leave for a little while and come back to a novel! LOL (Not complaining tho!! It is great that so many are interested in Brooke and this case. Great info here! WTG, WSers!)

[Tom'sGirl]

(Please delete if another member started one by the time this posted. TY)
Did you request for the other thread to be closed?

[galvino]

SS- It is called Lone Star Grease Monkey Inc and I think it is a jiffy Lube kinda thing- over on the InSess board on today's thread they posted on maybe page 7,8, or 9 and it listed it as being owned by Kevin. Sooo- how is it that Ray was his boss? KG stated that in the 1st article where he was quoted. Maybe Ray was once his boss in ALA?

Also, on the same pages there is a link to KG's nephew's kiddie porn case and tells how it all went down- interesting read!

I don't trust those guys either!

[Tom'sGirl]

I know! I leave for a little while and come back to a novel! LOL (Not complaining tho!! It is great that so many are interested in Brooke and this case. Great info here! WTG, WSers!)
LOL, I knew you were gone and thought you come back and say "oy vey" :)

[dark_shadows]

night galvino
Thanks w1df10wr!

My dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
What happened! I thought you or SS was starting a new thread.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[galvino]

Thanks for the linky, TG!

[Busylady]

I don't read over there, but Grosenheider family is wealthy and have their hands in alot of business. Many times family members will be appointed positions on the board but do not physically work at the business.

I think Kevin G physically works at Avanzar Interior Technologies with Ray Gagnon.

Allright- It seems I was just threatening to go to sleep now, but I gotta ask-

Did anyone else check out what I had seen about KG in the In Sessions board about his business?

[MCDRAW]

Busylady said something about them investigating the house in Alabama. They didn't mention it on the news tonight.

[Tom'sGirl]

thanks for the linky, tg!
yw :)

[galvino]

Oh, OK busylady. Thanks for the info!

No more threats this time- I am really going to bed this time! See ya'll tomorrow- hope we learn more

[SeriouslySearching]

It's here
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=335130&perpage=40&pagenumber=7Gosh, I like the way they credit themselves with information our sleuthers actually found first. LOL

OK..well...it is something to check into because it may not be the same person. I think the FBI is more informed as to the situation and if they say that THIS Kevin G. works under Ray Gagnon, I have a tendency to believe them.

Kevin G. who owns that company would probably be living in a very nice neighborhood and not an apartment, imo. It just doesn't seem to fit the circumstances or the comments from LE or the FBI thus far.

[dark_shadows]

SS- It is called Lone Star Grease Monkey Inc and I think it is a jiffy Lube kinda thing- over on the InSess board on today's thread they posted on maybe page 7,8, or 9 and it listed it as being owned by Kevin. Sooo- how is it that Ray was his boss? KG stated that in the 1st article where he was quoted. Maybe Ray was once his boss in ALA?

Also, on the same pages there is a link to KG's nephew's kiddie porn case and tells how it all went down- interesting read!

I don't trust those guys either!
Dearest Galvino,:blowkiss:
I took your advise and went over there and lasted only for a few minutes before I had to come back here. The ones over there take posts from here and post them there. They even have links for the affidavits from here posted over there. They are linked to websleuth pages. Nasty.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Tom'sGirl]

I don't read over there, but Grosenheider family is wealthy and have their hands in alot of business. Many times family members will be appointed positions on the board but do not physically work at the business.

I think Kevin G physically works at Avanzar Interior Technologies with Ray Gagnon.
So do I Busy.

[philamena]

My dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
What happened! I thought you or SS was starting a new thread.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows


Hello dear friend! :blowkiss:
I asked that one be started...I didn't know if I should start one. :blush:

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks for the link, TG!

Dark~ I agree. I can't stomach going to IS. I saw WS mentioned at least a dozen times in that short span. If they want to work on a case, why not just come here and join us?! Makes more sense than to keep repeating it all!

I was gone and saw that Adnoid was around so thought he would handle it. (shrugging shoulders) I have tried to keep them at about 20 pages. W1d did a fine job tho. :)

[w1df10wr]

Wow! I have to beg people to stop and come over to a new thread!! Good job, W1df10wr!

Thank you SS, RR, galvino and philamena. :)

[galvino]

I agree DS- I usually do a 'hit and run' over there at the end of the day just to make sure they don't know anymore than we do! And they are always leagues behind us, sending their little spies over (LOL)!

I did find the link spelling out the entire kiddie porn thing on KG's nephew interesting, tho. Had not seen it here, but could have missed it- I swear it is hard to keep up!

Relatives coming for a WEEK next Sat. and I am going to have to sneak peeks on here- If I have to wade through as much as we've had this week- aaarrgh!
Hopefully we'll know more the 1st part of this week!

[SeriouslySearching]

Avanzar Interior Technologies sounds more like it if you ask me. Now it was mentioned that Ray is an Engineer. If he is, he must have graduated somewhere. Think we could find out more of who he really is by researching his college history?

[dark_shadows]

Hello dear friend! :blowkiss:
I asked that one be started...I didn't know if I should start one. :blush:
Dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
Nice to see you my friend. I thought you were on your way to start it.
What a cute little smiley face you have going on there!

So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[barb0301]

Allright- It seems I was just threatening to go to sleep now, but I gotta ask-

Did anyone else check out what I had seen about KG in the In Sessions board about his business?

I think there are 2 KG's, one in San Antonio, and one in San Marcos, somehow related. I am trying to trace them now, but could not find the business.

[SeriouslySearching]

I did find the link spelling out the entire kiddie porn thing on KG's nephew interesting, tho. Had not seen it here, but could have missed it- I guess I missed this one, too. Where is the link?

[SeriouslySearching]

Also, I thought we figured out Denise worked for some Commercial property company? Did I dream that?

[philamena]

Dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
Nice to see you my friend. I thought you were on your way to start it.
What a cute little smiley face you have going on there!

So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
DS,
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your comments along with the time and research you've devoted to this case. :clap::blowkiss: thank you

[dark_shadows]

I agree DS- I usually do a 'hit and run' over there at the end of the day just to make sure they don't know anymore than we do! And they are always leagues behind us, sending their little spies over (LOL)!

I did find the link spelling out the entire kiddie porn thing on KG's nephew interesting, tho. Had not seen it here, but could have missed it- I swear it is hard to keep up!

Relatives coming for a WEEK next Sat. and I am going to have to sneak peeks on here- If I have to wade through as much as we've had this week- aaarrgh!
Hopefully we'll know more the 1st part of this week!
Dearest Galvino,:blowkiss:
Well I went there just for you, but I got disgusted and left.
Just like SS said, they took all of our hard work.

Busylady and others spent alot of time researching family members for us here and there hard work is all over on that message board.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[galvino]

SS, I don't know how to link, but it is either on pg 7,8, or 9 at that "other" place! heck, I just learned how to post a smiley!:)

[barb0301]

-snip
I did find the link spelling out the entire kiddie porn thing on KG's nephew interesting, tho. Had not seen it here, but could have missed it- I swear it is hard to keep up!

LOL !! I think it was posted here way, way back . I'll try to find the link.

[Tom'sGirl]

Thanks for the link, TG!
More than welcome gal!

Dark~ I agree. I can't stomach going to IS. I saw WS mentioned at least a dozen times in that short span. If they want to work on a case, why not just come here and join us?! Makes more sense than to keep repeating it all!

Reading at IS gives me fits sometimes, they forever post info. from here, all of our research and so forth!
I was gone and saw that Adnoid was around so thought he would handle it. (shrugging shoulders) I have tried to keep them at about 20 pages. W1d did a fine job tho. :)
MODS can't keep track of all the forums, I sent a request to Adnoid to have thread 11 closed. It used to be we had to do that FIRST before starting another one.

[w1df10wr]

Did you request for the other thread to be closed?

Opps, I didn't. I saw your post that you did. Thank you. :smile:

[Tom'sGirl]

Opps, I didn't. I saw your post that you did. Thank you. :smile:
Your welcome

[galvino]

:blowkiss:

Night All! Now SLOW DOWN so I don't have to play catch up for hours tomorrow AM! LOL

[dark_shadows]

DS,
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your comments along with the time and research you've devoted to this case. :clap::blowkiss: thank you
My dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
Thank-you so much my friend. I have always looked forward to your posts. You have done so much on this website for all of us and we treasure you.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[dark_shadows]

:blowkiss:

Night All! Now SLOW DOWN so I don't have to play catch up for hours tomorrow AM! LOL

Sleep well my friend.:blowkiss:
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[SeriouslySearching]

SS, I don't know how to link, but it is either on pg 7,8, or 9 at that "other" place! heck, I just learned how to post a smiley!:)And you post those so very nicely, too, Galvino! :) Thanks! I will put on my waders and go back to IS once more. (putting vicks in my nose due to the stench of stealers over there)

Whew! Back and don't every want to go there again! You can't make me :P

I didn't find any link to that story...so I guess I will just google it tomorrow.

[barb0301]

Here's a link to the appeal on KG's RSO relative's appeal. From my research, I still can't figure out if the RSO is a "cousin" or a "nephew". I'm actually leaning towards a cousin right now, hope to find more info.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2344189&postcount=224

[RR0004]

My dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
What happened! I thought you or SS was starting a new thread.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
DS-my friend...do you ever sleep? I tried...not much luck lately. I've been having nightmares...and at my age!!

[dark_shadows]

DS-my friend...do you ever sleep? I tried...not much luck lately. I've been having nightmares...and at my age!!
My dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Where on earth have you been!!!
I said hello to you awhile ago.:)


I did sleep for a few. Yes, I am going to sleep soon.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[RR0004]

Also, I thought we figured out Denise worked for some Commercial property company? Did I dream that?
I think so...a commecial park of some sorts IIRC.

[RR0004]

My dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Where on earth have you been!!!
I said hello to you awhile ago.:)


I did sleep for a few. Yes, I am going to sleep soon.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Decided to do a coffee run instead of going to sleep...I'm insane...but sleep hasn't been pretty lately.

[dark_shadows]

Gosh, I like the way they credit themselves with information our sleuthers actually found first. LOL


Dearest SS,:blowkiss:
Yes they are doing that! I also saw that a few of them said that they signed up here.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[RR0004]

I read an article out of San Antonio where they interviewed a neighbor of KG...it sounded like a nice area...on a cul-de-sac I think.

[Tom'sGirl]

Dearest SS,:blowkiss:
Yes they are doing that! I also saw that a few of them said that they signed up here.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Oh yeah,many have, and many have been members here for a long time, but I loved reading the posts complaining they couldn't register with their freebie Internet connections..............loved it :Banane10:

[dark_shadows]

Decided to do a coffee run instead of going to sleep...I'm insane...but sleep hasn't been pretty lately.
Dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Well a coffee sounds good right now.

I am sorry that you are not sleeping well.:(


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[philamena]

My dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
Thank-you so much my friend. I have always looked forward to your posts. You have done so much on this website for all of us and we treasure you.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Ok, dear friend, don't make me cry. :blowkiss:
(I can't tell you how much that and you mean to me. )

Now to get back on topic. ;)
When uncle perv found the planted items of Brooke's,
did LE launch another search in that particular area?
I understand the stepdad planting her things but someone in a rush, planting evidence probably made more than one mistake. :waitasec:

Any idea's/guesses what else the step dad did to hinder the investigation? Any news of evidence found at his house?


From dark_shadows thread:

MONTPELIER — Brooke Bennett’s former stepfather is due in federal court Monday to face allegations that he hindered the investigation....

[dark_shadows]

Oh yeah,many have, and many have been members here for a long time, but I loved reading the posts complaining they couldn't register with their freebie Internet connections..............loved it :Banane10:
My very dearest Tom'sGirl,:blowkiss:
I love your post, I laughed out loud real hard.
Thank-you because I needed it.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[liljim]

new poster here, hi all.

so sad. and so preventable.

this is going to be a dark day assuming the autopsy results are revealed, we can all only hope that she fought hard and was killed quickly (like others have mentioned).

random thoughts after reading all the threads here and waiting to be able to post :)

what is up with the redaction in those affidavits?! on some you can see right thru that it says "dad", and on others even tho the black out worked the context makes it very clear exactly who the person is giving the statement.

the guy that claims he threw out the computer and safe is lying, it is just beyond believable he would do so. if someone calls me and tells me to go get their PC and safe and throw them out all i would hear is "free PC and safe" and if i found anything illegal on/in them i would judge for myself whether or not they need to be destroyed/reported to the authorities.

what do most people consider for motive? (i really wish the email correspondence made this issue more clear) i see four or so obvious possibilties; they had AR try to get brooke interested and she reacted with disgust so they became concerned she would tell, or brooke found out accidentaly about it, i could see AR being envious of brooke and initiating things, and i could also see MJ just wanting to take his depravity to an even further level and manipulating AR into thinking it must be done (as is said in the emails).

im not sure that knowing the motive for sure will help anyone deal with this, but i guess the PI in me always wants to know.

im not convinced yet whether or not AR really left before anything bad happened, and i wish i could say that i think brooke's ordeal was short, but everything in those affidavits is telling me that this was a planned rape torture and murder, there was no hope of initiating brooke into the "sex ring", MJ knew at the start she was going to die so all we are left with to limit the ordeal is MJ's stomach for it which i would imagine is quite strong judging by everything else we know about this sick bastard.

i have no sympathy left for either mother, i am finding it hard to sympathize with AR but i cant find it in me to pass judgement on her either. i have no idea how i would handle what has happened to her, i dont think we can have any expectations of her at all.

reading those emails and knowing that it is MJ writing that stuff to his own stepdaughter makes me so damn angry. im assuming it was him also that had sex with her when she said she was so drugged out she couldnt identify who it was.

i just hope i live to see the day that this bastard suffers a long painful death.

[SeriouslySearching]

Here's a link to the appeal on KG's RSO relative's appeal. From my research, I still can't figure out if the RSO is a "cousin" or a "nephew". I'm actually leaning towards a cousin right now, hope to find more info.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2344189&postcount=224Thanks so much, Barb! I found this quote from the Judge to be nauseating:

Before pronouncing sentence on Grosenheider, the district court made preliminary remarks, including the following: "So that everybody knows where we stand, I am concerned with the guidelines in this case. I think they're wrong. I'm not-not that I have one second of doubt that what you did was not only illegal but just terrible. But the guidelines in this particular case, it seems to me, are just too high. I don't see that it does anybody any good to put you away for three years in prison . . . . I don't believe that the sentencing commission had a case in mind where we have a person who's 38 or 39 years old, never been in trouble really, have zero points on criminal history, whether it be curiosity or just absolute perversion to utilize his computer in this way . . . . So I'm just giving everybody fair warning, I don't like this case, I don't like the defendant very much, don't like the guidelines very much, don't like the law very much."
"Twelve months in the penitentiary is not easy for anybody. I think you've been more than sufficiently punished for an intelligent person, and I don't think you're going to do this again."
"I state in the record that as far as I'm concerned . . . , [ this] is an illegal sentence and I do not have the authority to do it under the express provisions of the guidelines. But this case and the United States will not be any better off by putting Mr. Grosenheider in jail for three years and I'm not going to do it."
http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/police/grosenheider.htm (Bolded by me)

[dark_shadows]

Ok, dear friend, don't make me cry. :blowkiss:
(I can't tell you how much that and you mean to me. )

Now to get back on topic. ;)
When uncle perv found the planted items of Brooke's,
did LE launch another search in that particular area?
I understand the stepdad planting her things but someone in a rush, planting evidence probably made more than one mistake. :waitasec:

Any idea's/guesses what else the step dad did to hinder the investigation? Any news of evidence found at his house?


From dark_shadows thread:
My very dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
I think the world of you.


Thank-you for bringing up Gagnon's court date up. We are in for some news tomorrow.

So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

[RR0004]

Dearest SS,:blowkiss:
Yes they are doing that! I also saw that a few of them said that they signed up here.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Ok...I went and took a peek...they actually were asking how to access this website!

[becca]

I think we are all having problems sleeping of late. That is why I swore I wouldn't do this again. (follow another case about a child). Its too much at times. I have figured out that a break everyday is a must. Otherwise we end up so invested that we have no other life. Please fellow WSers remember to take care of you ...
ok thats all for the 1 am mental health alert.

[RR0004]

Thanks so much, Barb! I found this quote from the Judge to be nauseating:

Before pronouncing sentence on Grosenheider, the district court made preliminary remarks, including the following: "So that everybody knows where we stand, I am concerned with the guidelines in this case. I think they're wrong. I'm not-not that I have one second of doubt that what you did was not only illegal but just terrible. But the guidelines in this particular case, it seems to me, are just too high. I don't see that it does anybody any good to put you away for three years in prison . . . . I don't believe that the sentencing commission had a case in mind where we have a person who's 38 or 39 years old, never been in trouble really, have zero points on criminal history, whether it be curiosity or just absolute perversion to utilize his computer in this way . . . . So I'm just giving everybody fair warning, I don't like this case, I don't like the defendant very much, don't like the guidelines very much, don't like the law very much."
"Twelve months in the penitentiary is not easy for anybody. I think you've been more than sufficiently punished for an intelligent person, and I don't think you're going to do this again."
"I state in the record that as far as I'm concerned . . . , [ this] is an illegal sentence and I do not have the authority to do it under the express provisions of the guidelines. But this case and the United States will not be any better off by putting Mr. Grosenheider in jail for three years and I'm not going to do it."
http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/police/grosenheider.htm (Bolded by me)
You have got to be kidding!! What an _ _ _ _ _ _ _ !! (you fill in the blank)

[barb0301]

I read an article out of San Antonio where they interviewed a neighbor of KG...it sounded like a nice area...on a cul-de-sac I think.

It is a nice neighborhood. Located in one of the best school districts in SA, and in a growing part of the city, on the NW side. Not 5 miles from my house, and less than 2 miles from my son's middle school. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

[RR0004]

I think we are all having problems sleeping of late. That is why I swore I wouldn't do this again. (follow another case about a child). Its too much at times. I have figured out that a break everyday is a must. Otherwise we end up so invested that we have no other life. Please fellow WSers remember to take care of you ...
ok thats all for the 1 am mental health alert.
Thanks for the alert, Becca! Tomorrow will be a long day I am sure. I will see everyone back here then. I'll have to work backwards I'm sure through all the threads.

Take care one and all!!

[becca]

Thanks for the alert, Becca! Tomorrow will be a long day I am sure. I will see everyone back here then. I'll have to work backwards I'm sure through all the threads.

Take care one and all!!

Good nite RR see ya later in the day....

[philamena]

I think we are all having problems sleeping of late. That is why I swore I wouldn't do this again. (follow another case about a child). Its too much at times. I have figured out that a break everyday is a must. Otherwise we end up so invested that we have no other life. Please fellow WSers remember to take care of you ...
ok thats all for the 1 am mental health alert.

You're right becca. This for me is like following 2 other cases that grabbed me and you know how that is.
I've had a hard time sleeping also and tonight may be especially hard. I'm a little anxious about tomorrow's hearing.

[barb0301]

Thanks so much, Barb! I found this quote from the Judge to be nauseating:

Before pronouncing sentence on Grosenheider, the district court made preliminary remarks, including the following: "So that everybody knows where we stand, I am concerned with the guidelines in this case. I think they're wrong. I'm not-not that I have one second of doubt that what you did was not only illegal but just terrible. But the guidelines in this particular case, it seems to me, are just too high. I don't see that it does anybody any good to put you away for three years in prison . . . . I don't believe that the sentencing commission had a case in mind where we have a person who's 38 or 39 years old, never been in trouble really, have zero points on criminal history, whether it be curiosity or just absolute perversion to utilize his computer in this way . . . . So I'm just giving everybody fair warning, I don't like this case, I don't like the defendant very much, don't like the guidelines very much, don't like the law very much."
"Twelve months in the penitentiary is not easy for anybody. I think you've been more than sufficiently punished for an intelligent person, and I don't think you're going to do this again."
"I state in the record that as far as I'm concerned . . . , [ this] is an illegal sentence and I do not have the authority to do it under the express provisions of the guidelines. But this case and the United States will not be any better off by putting Mr. Grosenheider in jail for three years and I'm not going to do it."
http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/police/grosenheider.htm (Bolded by me)

Is that not the most sickening thing? Made my blood boil when I read it a few days ago. And now, if you look this POS RSO up in the TX RSO list, he is listed as "Absconded"......hmmmmmmmmmmm, makes you wonder what he's been up to, right? Sufficiently punished? Me thinks not !!!

[liljim]

i realize its a holiday weekend but there have been new stories about this case in the media and none of them that i have seen have mentioned any of the new and important details from the latest affidavits, why is that?

they have mentioned certain things from those affidavits, particularly the one that focuses on the email correspondence, but not any of the real explosive things that are surely making this look like premeditated torture and murder in which AR played a much larger role than previously reported (maybe even more than we still know).

is everyone saving their blockbuster reports for this coming morning?

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, LilJim! You are thinking pretty much along the same lines as we all are. I used to call that sicko freak, Uncle Creepy, but that sounds like just a "dirty, old man". This man is pure evil and way beyond anything we have seen for a long time.

As more comes out about how depraved he actually is, the more I have to wonder how much his wife truly saw. The little bit we have to go on with the affidavit is probably the tip of that proverbial iceberg. I hope they take all the kids in that family away until they get a real handle on the wife's mental stability and what she actually knew about that POS. As far as AR, I see her as a victim still. ONLY because she is 14 and has been molested plus molded by Jacques for so many years. She did participate on such a level that the case could be made that she should be charged, however. I also think she stayed and participated in the torture instead of leaving with Juv 2.

This is truly a messed up family from every direction you look going back to MJ's family and Denise's, too. As it broadens, the abuse seems to follow. It is no excuse for what happened to Brooke. Also no excuse for what happened to AR either.

[i.b.nora]

In 1998 when his brother Elton died, Kevin Grosenheider and his then wife Elaine were living in San Marcos, Texas. That might be when he was involved with Lone Star Grease Monkey.
Obviously, we know from the recent affidavit that he is now unmarried, living with a girlfriend and her 17 year old daughter in San Antonio and working at Avanzar Interior Technologies.

[becca]

You're right becca. This for me is like following 2 other cases that grabbed me and you know how that is.
I've had a hard time sleeping also and tonight may be especially hard. I'm a little anxious about tomorrow's hearing.

If anyone knows how that is its you and I.... we have been consummed by these cases. For me one was kind of personal and the others were just too close for comfort.
I worry about what the judge will say tomorrow also. I have a uneasy feeling about it. We know that isn't a good sign.
But I will do my best to put it into God's hands for tonight.
my dear friend please try to give it to God tonight and get some rest.:blowkiss:

[SeriouslySearching]

I think we are all having problems sleeping of late. That is why I swore I wouldn't do this again. (follow another case about a child). Its too much at times. I have figured out that a break everyday is a must. Otherwise we end up so invested that we have no other life. Please fellow WSers remember to take care of you ...
ok thats all for the 1 am mental health alert.LOL Good job, Becca! :crazy: Where were you about Jan. 2007 when I needed you?! I am way past that alert now. :eek: Tricia keeps a padded room for me in the back for my use now and then tho. LOL

[philamena]

Snippet from the court doc posted above by SeriouslySearching:

Defendant-cross-appellant John Stephen Grosenheider (Grosenheider) was indicted for the receipt and possession of computer images of child pornography....




I think you've been more than sufficiently punished for an intelligent person, and I don't think you're going to do this again."
"I state in the record that as far as I'm concerned . . . , [ this] is an illegal sentence and I do not have the authority to do it under the express provisions of the guidelines. But this case and the United States will not be any better off by putting Mr. Grosenheider in jail for three years and I'm not going to do it."



NO! The Judge was what?
In denial?
Ignorant of facts about child pornography and it's addictive viewers?
IMO the Judge should have been degaveled.

[dark_shadows]

Thanks for the alert, Becca! Tomorrow will be a long day I am sure. I will see everyone back here then. I'll have to work backwards I'm sure through all the threads.

Take care one and all!!
My very dearest RR,:blowkiss:
Love to you my friend.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[becca]

LOL Good job, Becca! :crazy: Where were you about Jan. 2007 when I needed you?! I am way past that alert now. :eek: Tricia keeps a padded room for me in the back for my use now and then tho. LOL

Sorry I was off working on a case close to home. Which is why I now know to pay attention so I don't have to borrow the padded room from Tricia.

[dark_shadows]

You're right becca. This for me is like following 2 other cases that grabbed me and you know how that is.
I've had a hard time sleeping also and tonight may be especially hard. I'm a little anxious about tomorrow's hearing.
My sweet Philamena,:blowkiss:
I am so sad that you cannot sleep.

I am sending you a big comforting hug my dear one.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[SeriouslySearching]

NO! The Judge was what?
In denial?
Ignorant of facts about child pornography and it's addictive viewers?
IMO the Judge should have been degaveled.I know! Can you believe his remarks?! "Poor fella...you have to spend a year in jail which is just too rough for such an intelligent, squeaky-clean guy who knowingly downloaded children between the ages of 10-14 having sex and being you are so misunderstood by the people who wrote the laws...I can't sentence you to the 3 years!" Sheesh!!! :furious:

[philamena]

If anyone knows how that is its you and I.... we have been consummed by these cases. For me one was kind of personal and the others were just too close for comfort.
I worry about what the judge will say tomorrow also. I have a uneasy feeling about it. We know that isn't a good sign.
But I will do my best to put it into God's hands for tonight.
my dear friend please try to give it to God tonight and get some rest.:blowkiss:
You do the same honey :blowkiss: because I fear that we've only heard the smallest amount of facts concerning this case. I don't know if I can handle the truth. :(
I was sickened after reading the affidavits.....
You know it's hard for me to accept that people are just pure evil-like SeriouslySearching said.
Then I remember couey and duncan. :furious::furious::furious:

[SeriouslySearching]

Sorry I was off working on a case close to home. Which is why I now know to pay attention so I don't have to borrow the padded room from Tricia.LOL I try to avoid it myself. I hear the food is lousy in this hotel. :crazy:

As far as tomorrow goes, I am looking forward to it. I can't wait until Gagnon is out there for the public to see finally! I am sick of the Feds hiding the face of a known child porn trader and whatever else they are going to charge him with!! (I am very curious if Cassandra will show up for the hearing, too!)

[becca]

You do the same honey :blowkiss: because I fear that we've only heard the smallest amount of facts concerning this case. I don't know if I can handle the truth. :(
I was sickened after reading the afidavits.....
You know it's hard for me to accept that people are just pure evil-like SeriouslySearching said.
Then I remember couey and duncan. :furious::furious::furious:
Just thinking about some of the things we are going to hear is making me ill. I know it brings back memories that I wish I hadn't lived thru the first time. But if that is what it takes to bring justice for a child then I will confront those memories and take in the new info. I made a promise along time ago and I haven't broke it yet.
NO child will be left without justice, left without being brought home, and forgotten. NEVER in my lifetime.
:blowkiss:

[philamena]

My sweet Philamena,:blowkiss:
I am so sad that you cannot sleep.

I am sending you a big comforting hug my dear one.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
awwww, thanks d_s. I felt your hug. :blowkiss:
I'm drinking a glass of milk and hoping that will help too.

[becca]

LOL I try to avoid it myself. I hear the food is lousy in this hotel. :crazy:

As far as tomorrow goes, I am looking forward to it. I can't wait until Gagnon is out there for the public to see finally! I am sick of the Feds hiding the face of a known child porn trader and whatever else they are going to charge him with!! (I am very curious if Cassandra will show up for the hearing, too!)

If she has a good advocate she will be there and keep her mouth shut.
I do want to hear the truth, but it will be hard to swallow.
as for the padded room, i haven't used it yet. but that isn't to say i won't some day. I just try to take care of my mental well being more these days than I used to. I used to go days without sleeping or eating. Then when I was needed to do a SAR I was always sick. Too sick to drive anywhere. Can't do that anymore.

[philamena]

I know! Can you believe his remarks?! "Poor fella...you have to spend a year in jail which is just too rough for such an intelligent, squeaky-clean guy who knowingly downloaded children between the ages of 10-14 having sex and being you are so misunderstood by the people who wrote the laws...I can't sentence you to the 3 years!" Sheesh!!! :furious:


SeriouslySearching,
I am appalled.:furious:
What happened to our courts protecting innocent children?
Why would a judge protect a child porn viewer?
UNLESS he was one himself!:confused::eek:
I mean, think about it? Judges don't normally protect and side with rapist, murderers, drug dealers, etc. do they? :0

OMG we will see Gagnon tomorrow! Finally!

[SeriouslySearching]

I doubt Cassandra will keep her mouth shut if the media approaches her. I think she will go because of her attachment to Ray Gagnon. I don't think she believes yet that he could have done anything to help abduct/torture/murder her child, sad to say. She probably believes the Feds are lying about him and he is totally innocent in this whole thing.

[adnoid]

Dearest SS,:blowkiss:
Yes they are doing that! I also saw that a few of them said that they signed up here...

As long as they don't behave like the average CTV poster. We end up banning some CTV posters that come over here & act like they do there.

Follow our TOS and you are welcome.

[SeriouslySearching]

SeriouslySearching,
I am appalled.:furious:
What happened to our courts protecting innocent children?
Why would a judge protect a child porn viewer?
UNLESS he was one himself!:confused::eek:Makes me wonder, Philamena.

[becca]

SeriouslySearching,
I am appalled.:furious:
What happened to our courts protecting innocent children?
Why would a judge protect a child porn viewer?
UNLESS he was one himself!:confused::eek:

interesting thought.... the judge was a fool at best. At worst a paid for accomplice. Anyone who knowingly puts a child porn viewer, distributor or producer back on the street is an accomplice .

[liljim]

any opinions on the lack of coverage on the sickening details contained in the emails?

[Tom'sGirl]

As long as they don't behave like the average CTV poster. We end up banning some CTV posters that come over here & act like they do there.

Follow our TOS and you are welcome.
:gomods:

[SeriouslySearching]

any opinions on the lack of coverage on the sickening details contained in the emails?I think they are too much for most news media outlets to handle. John Q. Public would be offended and they don't want to go there.

[becca]

any opinions on the lack of coverage on the sickening details contained in the emails?

The media doesn't always put out there everything they know. Especially before its released in court. I'm not surprised by it at all. After tomorrow it will be different.

[dark_shadows]

As long as they don't behave like the average CTV poster. We end up banning some CTV posters that come over here & act like they do there.

Follow our TOS and you are welcome.
My dearest Adnoid,:blowkiss:
Please don't scare me like that again...ok.

When I saw my post in quotes and saw the person that quoted me was you I thought...ok I am in trouble, my azz is grass.

I was :chicken: to read your post at first and I did a quick "driveby" to get a feel.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[philamena]

interesting thought.... the judge was a fool at best. At worst a paid for accomplice. Anyone who knowingly puts a child porn viewer, distributor or producer back on the street is an accomplice .


I agree,:clap:

[philamena]

My dearest Adnoid,:blowkiss:
Please don't scare me like that again...ok.

When I saw my post in quotes and saw the person that quoted me was you I thought...ok I am in trouble, my azz is grass.

I was :chicken: to read your post at first and I did a quick "driveby" to get a feel.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

bahaaa made me spit milk. d_s you cracked me up. :rotfl::spit:

[SeriouslySearching]

:soldier::bud::cop::whip2::sumo::sonar::soldier: <<<WS MOD ARMY:gomods:

[liljim]

The media doesn't always put out there everything they know. Especially before its released in court. I'm not surprised by it at all. After tomorrow it will be different.


weird, my impression would be the opposite (not saying that it is correct), that the media rushes to get affidavits as soon as they are part of the public record to see if there is anything major to break.

and they did release information from these affidavits, just not the things that i feel are most important/revealing about the true nature of this crime.

and i do agree that this will change early this week, especially after the autopsy results are disclosed and a murder charge is filed.

[dark_shadows]

bahaaa made me spit milk. d_s you cracked me up. :rotfl::spit:
My dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
LOL! I was scared.

OMG you posted the perfect icon!


So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't know they will release anything much about the autopsy results other than the manner of death (ie. murder, suicide, accidental). We already know the answer, I think.

I am not expecting a lot more to come out tomorrow actually. They lined things out already in the affidavit sufficient to charge him.

The additional charges against Jacques will be interesting in how they plan on wording those in the affidavit tho.

[becca]

weird, my impression would be the opposite (not saying that it is correct), that the media rushes to get affidavits as soon as they are part of the public record to see if there is anything major to break.

and they did release information from these affidavits, just not the things that i feel are most important/revealing about the true nature of this crime.

and i do agree that this will change early this week, especially after the autopsy results are disclosed and a murder charge is filed.

If you noticed they had to back pedal and black out some info after first publishing with out redacting. This was an error. Now they will be very careful. They could blow the case. It happened here with the Lunsford case.... the trial had to be moved to Miami. No jury could be seated here.
Think small town Vermont and national coverage of this case and the same thing could well happen.

[Tom'sGirl]

weird, my impression would be the opposite (not saying that it is correct), that the media rushes to get affidavits as soon as they are part of the public record to see if there is anything major to break.

and they did release information from these affidavits, just not the things that i feel are most important/revealing about the true nature of this crime.

and i do agree that this will change early this week, especially after the autopsy results are disclosed and a murder charge is filed.
Some affadavits aren't ever published in cases I've followed, and in the Laurean/Lauterbach case it dragged on forever, and not all were released.

MUCH of what is learned as to details never come out until the trial as to not 'taint' the case when selecting a jury.

[dark_shadows]

There are more and more sex crimes happing around here.


http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8625955

Burlington Police arrested a man after he broke into the apartments of two young women and allegedly sexually molested at least one of them. Police say no one was injured, but the incidents were frightening because in each case, the intruder was a stranger who recklessly broke in through unlocked doors and windows.


More at link.
The one who arrested him I worked with years ago when he was a Correctional Officer. Tyler is assigned to Brooke's case.


Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Tom'sGirl]

There are more and more sex crimes happing around here.


http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8625955

Burlington Police arrested a man after he broke into the apartments of two young women and allegedly sexually molested at least one of them. Police say no one was injured, but the incidents were frightening because in each case, the intruder was a stranger who recklessly broke in through unlocked doors and windows.

More at link.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows
They should have said he entered through an unlocked door or window, IF they had been locked then it would be a break in.

[SeriouslySearching]

It is also going to depend somewhat on MJ's family's standing in that community, too. If his family is friends with the Judges, this may be a reason to move it. IIRC, his grandmother served as a Justice of the Peace for quite a few years in the area.

Still, I think they can get a fair trial there. People's reactions aren't going to be much different to the evidence anywhere else in a case such as horrific as this one. I certainly would NOT want to be on that jury tho. It will be a nightmare.

[becca]

They should have said he entered through an unlocked door or window, IF they had been locked then it would be a break in.
If I remember right break means the seal of the door is broken as in opened. doesn't matter if its locked or not.
enter well that is self explanatory.

EDA its been along time since I took those rules of evidence for police and police procedure classes.

[SeriouslySearching]

They should have said he entered through an unlocked door or window, IF they had been locked then it would be a break in.He may have been really stupid and actually broke the unlocked windows or doors before entering tho. Yes?

[Tom'sGirl]

He may have been really stupid and actually broke the unlocked windows or doors before entering tho. Yes?
LOL, never thought of that :)

[liljim]

Some affadavits aren't ever published in cases I've followed, and in the Laurean/Lauterbach case it dragged on forever, and not all were released.

MUCH of what is learned as to details never come out until the trial as to not 'taint' the case when selecting a jury.

right but these affidavits are already released and out there, and much of the detail in them has been reported.

re: redaction, see my earlier comments on this, if they were going to do such a lousy job of it im not sure why they even bothered to try and redact to protect AR's identity. it would be laughable if it wasnt so sad.

[SeriouslySearching]

It reminds me again of the screen on top of the porch at MJ's house. It is sticking out for me. I would like to know how it got there. Are they easily blown off or removed?

[Tom'sGirl]

right but these affidavits are already released and out there, and much of the detail in them has been reported.

re: redaction, see my earlier comments on this, if they were going to do such a lousy job of it im not sure why they even bothered to try and redact to protect AR's identity. it would be laughable if it wasnt so sad.
To be honest I was shocked they released them so soon.

[becca]

To be honest I was shocked they released them so soon.

Me too. I think they jumped the gun on releasing them. In fact I think they were leaked from the court house before they were supposed to be. Thats why they had to go back and redact .

[SeriouslySearching]

To be honest I was shocked they released them so soon.I agree. I am glad they did, but it did come as a surprise without a doubt. We rarely see that much from LE or the FBI. It has to mean there is so much more we aren't seeing that it is neccessary.

[liljim]

If you noticed they had to back pedal and black out some info after first publishing with out redacting. This was an error. Now they will be very careful. They could blow the case. It happened here with the Lunsford case.... the trial had to be moved to Miami. No jury could be seated here.
Think small town Vermont and national coverage of this case and the same thing could well happen.


i agree that they should have been and will be more careful about what they release, but again, we are talking about affidavits that are already public and have had many of the details in them reported widely, im commenting on the selection of details that have been reported, and the ones that have been omitted - by news outlets. not officials.

[dark_shadows]

They should have said he entered through an unlocked door or window, IF they had been locked then it would be a break in.
Dearest TomsGirl,:blowkiss:
He broke through her unlocked window screen, then he opened her bedroom door that was not locked and sexually assualted her.
Her bedroom door was not locked, but it does not matter, he walked through the threshold. Besides, who locks thier bedroom door anyway? It does not matter that her bedroom door was not locked.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[SeriouslySearching]

Oh, they will definitely be more careful from here on out!

[liljim]

I don't know they will release anything much about the autopsy results other than the manner of death (ie. murder, suicide, accidental). We already know the answer, I think.

I am not expecting a lot more to come out tomorrow actually. They lined things out already in the affidavit sufficient to charge him.

The additional charges against Jacques will be interesting in how they plan on wording those in the affidavit tho.

isnt it typical, in cases where sexual assault is highly suspected, to release if evidence of such is found during autopsy?

[SeriouslySearching]

Dearest TomsGirl,:blowkiss:
He broke through her unlocked window screen, then he opened her bedroom door that was not locked and sexually assualted her.
Her bedroom door was not locked, but it does not matter, he walked through the threshold. Besides, who locks thier bedroom door anyway? It does not matter that her bedroom door was not locked.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadowsAnd to think for about $20.00 per month, those women could have an alarm system. Then again, if they didn't bother locking their windows...shame on them!

[Busylady]

They are one in the same, Kevin G lived in San Marcos at one point when he was married.

I think there are 2 KG's, one in San Antonio, and one in San Marcos, somehow related. I am trying to trace them now, but could not find the business.

[SeriouslySearching]

isnt it typical, in cases where sexual assault is highly suspected, to release if evidence of such is found during autopsy?Yes, if they have the evidence. There may not be such evidence found here depending on decomp and various issues. That evidence may have to come from solid evidence such as her DNA on the machine etc.

[SeriouslySearching]

They are one in the same, Kevin G lived in San Marcos at one point when he was married.Then I am confused about RG and KG's working relationship.

[i.b.nora]

As I stated earlier on this very thread:

In 1998 when his brother Elton died, Kevin Grosenheider and his then wife Elaine were living in San Marcos, Texas. That might be when he was involved with Lone Star Grease Monkey.
Obviously, we know from the recent affidavit that he is now unmarried, living with a girlfriend and her 17 year old daughter in San Antonio and working at Avanzar Interior Technologies.

[liljim]

Yes, if they have the evidence. There may not be such evidence found here depending on decomp and various issues. That evidence may have to come from solid evidence such as her DNA on the machine etc.

agreed, without being graphic i guess from what we know so far im expecting this evidence to be unmistakable even given the other issues.

:(

[Busylady]

Delno is the father of John Stephen Grosenheider, Kevin is Delno brother.

Here's a link to the appeal on KG's RSO relative's appeal. From my research, I still can't figure out if the RSO is a "cousin" or a "nephew". I'm actually leaning towards a cousin right now, hope to find more info.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2344189&postcount=224

[Busylady]

Busylady said something about them investigating the house in Alabama. They didn't mention it on the news tonight.


http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_185230015.html
the link that discusses the FBI at the vacant home in Alabama

[becca]

http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_185230015.html
the link that discusses the FBI at the vacant home in Alabama

Is it just me or does the end of that article make it sound like they are looking for something? Contact the police if you have any info about RG.... ummm they are looking for other victims.

[SeriouslySearching]

Gagnon’s listing in the Cullman City Directory from 1998 to 2007 indicates he lived in Cullman for almost a decade. His address was 1628 Katherine St. NW.

Jason Canter, who lives across the street from the address, confirmed Thursday Gagnon did reside there. He went on to say FBI agents searched Gagnon’s former residence Wednesday and questioned him about Gagnon, who Canter said he did not know.

“They kept to themselves,” he said about the Gagnons.

Local law enforcement officers declined to comment on Gagnon.

“Right now I’m really not at liberty to say much of anything about that,” said Cullman County Sheriff Tyler Roden. Cullman Police Chief Kenny Culpepper also declined to comment on the case.

Both referred inquiries to the FBI.

http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_185230015.html

[SeriouslySearching]

Is it just me or does the end of that article make it sound like they are looking for something? Contact the police if you have any info about RG.... ummm they are looking for other victims.They would be remiss if they weren't.

[becca]

They would be remiss if they weren't.
during a background investigation they talk to everyone they can find. This article leads me to believe they might already know something but need to find the "person". I see more charges being filed in the future.

[SeriouslySearching]

Interesting! He lived there for a decade so I am sure he befriended other "like" people, imo. If he was trading porn with the big boys in TX, this probably started out small in Alabama at some point. Maybe that is the angle they are working on.

[becca]

could be... they could also be trying to find out if he ever abused Brooke when they lived in Alabama. Or if AR ever came to visit there. They have lots of angles to explore.

[dark_shadows]

Jacques will be in court this week also.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Busylady]

I believe she works for AADCO Medical which is located in catamount commercial park

aadco medical

p.o box 410
catamount commercial parkway/rt 66
randolph, Vermont 05060
United States Contact:Denise Jacques, Marketing DirectorPhone:802-728-3400 Toll Free:800-225-9014 Fax:802-728-3107 Email:pobrien@aadcomed.com (pobrien@aadcomed.com) Website:http://www.aadcomed.com (http://www.aadcomed.com/)

Also, I thought we figured out Denise worked for some Commercial property company? Did I dream that?

[Busylady]

and remember he has known Kevin for 4 years and Kevin lived in Alabama also so pretty sure Kevin and Ray knew each other in Alabama.

Interesting! He lived there for a decade so I am sure he befriended other "like" people, imo. If he was trading porn with the big boys in TX, this probably started out small in Alabama at some point. Maybe that is the angle they are working on.

[dark_shadows]

I believe she works for AADCO Medical which is located in catamount commercial park

aadco medical

p.o box 410
catamount commercial parkway/rt 66
randolph, Vermont 05060
United States Contact:Denise Jacques, Marketing DirectorPhone:802-728-3400 Toll Free:800-225-9014 Fax:802-728-3107 Email:pobrien@aadcomed.com (pobrien@aadcomed.com) Website:http://www.aadcomed.com (http://www.aadcomed.com/)
My very dearest Busylady,:blowkiss:
Thank-you very much for all of your help.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[becca]

Its time to call it a night.... g'nite all. get some rest , the week should be very interesting.

[VTGirl81]

LOL I try to avoid it myself. I hear the food is lousy in this hotel. :crazy:

As far as tomorrow goes, I am looking forward to it. I can't wait until Gagnon is out there for the public to see finally! I am sick of the Feds hiding the face of a known child porn trader and whatever else they are going to charge him with!! (I am very curious if Cassandra will show up for the hearing, too!)


Actually, his picture was on today's (Sunday's) Burlington Free Press. I have been gone all day, has nobody else mentioned seeing his picture?

It was a good lesson for me...looking at him I wouldn't have thought that he was a POS perverted pig, I can usually spot them a mile away...he tricked me. Lesson learned - you just never know anymore who it may be.

[i.b.nora]

Its not on the online version, but they do have a video of the Survivor tryouts.

[Leila]

Off Topic, but I wanted to bring this to everyone's attention.

A 14-year-old girl in Modesto, California was kidnapped by a registered sex offender yesterday. The police spotted his car and chased him. He crashed into a truck and the girl was found in his trunk, safe, but was hospitalized with a possible spinal injury (from the accident?). The story at this link:

http://cbs2.com/local/Girl.14.Sacramento.2.764817.html

This is just one more story that RSO can't be cured!

[Leila]

It's here
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=335130&perp (http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=335130&perpage=40&pagenumber=7)age=40&pagenumber=7 (http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=335130&perpage=40&pagenumber=7)

Thanks Tom'sGirl..................now I'm trying to catch up with this thread! :)

[Leila]

new poster here, hi all.

so sad. and so preventable.

this is going to be a dark day assuming the autopsy results are revealed, we can all only hope that she fought hard and was killed quickly (like others have mentioned).

random thoughts after reading all the threads here and waiting to be able to post :)

what is up with the redaction in those affidavits?! on some you can see right thru that it says "dad", and on others even tho the black out worked the context makes it very clear exactly who the person is giving the statement.

the guy that claims he threw out the computer and safe is lying, it is just beyond believable he would do so. if someone calls me and tells me to go get their PC and safe and throw them out all i would hear is "free PC and safe" and if i found anything illegal on/in them i would judge for myself whether or not they need to be destroyed/reported to the authorities.

what do most people consider for motive? (i really wish the email correspondence made this issue more clear) i see four or so obvious possibilties; they had AR try to get brooke interested and she reacted with disgust so they became concerned she would tell, or brooke found out accidentaly about it, i could see AR being envious of brooke and initiating things, and i could also see MJ just wanting to take his depravity to an even further level and manipulating AR into thinking it must be done (as is said in the emails).

im not sure that knowing the motive for sure will help anyone deal with this, but i guess the PI in me always wants to know.

im not convinced yet whether or not AR really left before anything bad happened, and i wish i could say that i think brooke's ordeal was short, but everything in those affidavits is telling me that this was a planned rape torture and murder, there was no hope of initiating brooke into the "sex ring", MJ knew at the start she was going to die so all we are left with to limit the ordeal is MJ's stomach for it which i would imagine is quite strong judging by everything else we know about this sick bastard.

i have no sympathy left for either mother, i am finding it hard to sympathize with AR but i cant find it in me to pass judgement on her either. i have no idea how i would handle what has happened to her, i dont think we can have any expectations of her at all.

reading those emails and knowing that it is MJ writing that stuff to his own stepdaughter makes me so damn angry. im assuming it was him also that had sex with her when she said she was so drugged out she couldnt identify who it was.

i just hope i live to see the day that this bastard suffers a long painful death.

Welcome to Websleuths LilJim! :)

I also don't have any sympathy for Cassandra. She neglected Brooke, and put her in danger by allowing contact with a registered sex offender. And when she learned Brooke was missing, she wasted 12 valuable hours before anyone called LE.

[Cornflower]

She neglected Brooke, and put her in danger by allowing contact with a registered sex offender. And when she learned Brooke was missing, she wasted 12 valuable hours before anyone called LE.

IMO she called everyone in her phonebook because she was hysterical out of quilt, she knew something bad had happened that she could have prevented. She didn´t want to call LE, that would make it real...

[becca]

Actually, his picture was on today's (Sunday's) Burlington Free Press. I have been gone all day, has nobody else mentioned seeing his picture?

It was a good lesson for me...looking at him I wouldn't have thought that he was a POS perverted pig, I can usually spot them a mile away...he tricked me. Lesson learned - you just never know anymore who it may be.

Thats just it , we think we can tell but we can't. That is why educating children is very important... if we can't spot them how are they going to?

[becca]

[QUOTE=Cornflower;2356082]IMO she called everyone in her phonebook because she was hysterical out of quilt, she knew something bad had happened that she could have prevented. She didn´t want to call LE, that would make it real...[/Q

I would say its pretty real now for her. I don't really buy that she had guilt before after all she trusted her POS BIL didn't she? A known SO... and she felt no guilt about that... so no I don't buy that she felt guilt before calling LE.

[MCDRAW]

http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_185230015.html
the link that discusses the FBI at the vacant home in Alabama


Thank you. I have heard not a word mention on the local news. I live about 20/25 minutes from Cullman.

[becca]

Thank you. I have heard not a word mention on the local news. I live about 20/25 minutes from Cullman.

Has there been any news about child porn in the area? Any one arrested lately or a trial in the last few weeks? If so that will be very telling too.

[MCDRAW]

Snippet from the court doc posted above by SeriouslySearching:







NO! The Judge was what?
In denial?
Ignorant of facts about child pornography and it's addictive viewers?
IMO the Judge should have been degaveled.


Sometimes Judges are guilty of doing the same things as defendents...so it's hard to sentence them when the judge thinks the crime isn't that bad.

[Armandv101]

I've been in Chicago at a convention (http://armandsrancho.blogspot.com/2008/07/haruo-nakajima-receives-mangled.html) since Wednesday and I just now found out about the finding of Brooke's body and that the uncle has been charged. I had a weird feeling about him. Very sad news.

[liljim]

i couldnt help but wonder earlier, if brooke had not died or lets say wasnt even kidnapped, if she was just assaulted, even considering what MJ had done to his own stepdaughter, what would his sentence have been like in vermont?

or take brooke out of the situation entirely, if AR had gone to authorities a month ago and told what had happened to her, what kind of sentence does MJ get in vermont?

because to me, that kind of sadistic manipulation and assault on a child for years, that gets you a life sentence. i would have no problem with a death sentence in that case either, despite what the "55% club" said recently.

[liljim]

i think my above post was moved here by accident with the others :)

[MCDRAW]

Has there been any news about child porn in the area? Any one arrested lately or a trial in the last few weeks? If so that will be very telling too.


NO, I haven't heard anything. Cullman is a small town...it has always reminded me of Mayberry. It has grown in the last several years. I haven't heard anything about Child Porn in the area. Our news hasn't even mentioned Brooke Bennett in connection with Cullman. I don't watch the news all that often but I did watch the 10 o'clock news last night and nothing was mentioned.

[becca]

NO, I haven't heard anything. Cullman is a small town...it has always reminded me of Mayberry. It has grown in the last several years. I haven't heard anything about Child Porn in the area. Our news hasn't even mentioned Brooke Bennett in connection with Cullman. I don't watch the news all that often but I did watch the 10 o'clock news last night and nothing was mentioned.

Never been there but did travel close by several years ago. Makes one wonder what they hope to find in Cullman then.
I was hoping that there was something going on that would tie RG to it.... but I guess not . Thanks for the info.

[MCDRAW]

Let me change that Cullman may not be a small area but it has a small town feel about it. I grew up in an area that everyone knew everyone else. As the years have gone by and it's grown...everyone does not know everyone now. Cullman is probably that way too.

[becca]

Let me change that Cullman may not be a small area but it has a small town feel about it. I grew up in an area that everyone knew everyone else. As the years have gone by and it's grown...everyone does not know everyone now. Cullman is probably that way too.I understand its that way here too. We never locked the doors or took the keys out of the car when i was a kid. we rode our bikes to the beach and knew everyone on the way.... and they knew our parents.... not now.

[MCDRAW]

Never been there but did travel close by several years ago. Makes one wonder what they hope to find in Cullman then.
I was hoping that there was something going on that would tie RG to it.... but I guess not . Thanks for the info.


Something may very well be going on. I haven't heard anything about it and Cullman is known to be a good community. So if it's going on, not a lot of people know it. That's just my opinion.

[MCDRAW]

My mother still doesn't lock her doors during the day. But locks her car...go figure.

[adnoid]

My dearest Adnoid,:blowkiss:
Please don't scare me like that again...ok...

You mean by quoting your posts?

[becca]

My mother still doesn't lock her doors during the day. But locks her car...go figure.

These days I firmly believe in locking everything... then knowing where the ammo for the 9mm is , is helpful also.Not that I would advice anyone to own a gun but I like knowing its in the house. Kind of tells you about my neighborhood doesn't it?:banghead:

[MCDRAW]

These days I firmly believe in locking everything... then knowing where the ammo for the 9mm is , is helpful also.Not that I would advice anyone to own a gun but I like knowing its in the house. Kind of tells you about my neighborhood doesn't it?:banghead:


Truthfully, My Mom's house is old. She could lock her doors but it wouldn't take much work to get inside. She does now lock her doors at night.

[becca]

Truthfully, My Mom's house is old. She could lock her doors but it wouldn't take much work to get inside. She does now lock her doors at night.

We were running around yesterday trying to get out the front door.... couldn't find the key for the deadbolt. LOL sounds kind of stupid but we keep it bolted all the time. Of course this house sits on a main road so we get all the crazies thru here and they could and have gotten in with no trouble at all.
Oh to move to a tropical island.... my dream.

[MCDRAW]

I will say that we lock our doors all the time but there have been a few times that we have gotten up with our back door not only unlocked, but left wide open. :eek:

[becca]

I will say that we lock our doors all the time but there have been a few times that we have gotten up with our back door not only unlocked, but left wide open. :eek:Been there and done that too... and the scariest thing is the pool is not 4 feet away from the back door and we have a toddler here. Thank God he didn't go out that open door.

[MCDRAW]

I wonder if anything will be revealed today about Gagnon and Cullman?

[MCDRAW]

Been there and done that too... and the scariest thing is the pool is not 4 feet away from the back door and we have a toddler here. Thank God he didn't go out that open door.


That is scary!

[SeriouslySearching]

Thats just it , we think we can tell but we can't. That is why educating children is very important... if we can't spot them how are they going to?No truer words were ever posted! They come from every walk of life and look like fine, upstanding men on the surface. They may have seemingly normal families, lead seemingly normal lives, and still be the scum of the earth! Stranger danger is one thing, but this animal is quite the other. Most don't show up with a warning tag like Uncle Creepy did! (Yet Denise and Cassandra still refused to acknowledge it! :furious:)

[becca]

I wonder if anything will be revealed today about Gagnon and Cullman?

I don't know what will happen today. I feel like we will get some more details about all the secrets that these two POS SO's have been keeping . and we will learn something about the autopsy.

[SeriouslySearching]

I will say that we lock our doors all the time but there have been a few times that we have gotten up with our back door not only unlocked, but left wide open. :eek:Not as scary as hearing this tho! :eek: Why would your door be unlocked and left wide open?!

[becca]

No truer words were ever posted! They come from every walk of life and look like fine, upstanding men on the surface. They may have seemingly normal families, lead seemingly normal lives, and still be the scum of the earth! Stranger danger is one thing, but this animal is quite the other. Most don't show up with a warning tag like Uncle Creepy did! (Yet Denise and Cassandra still refused to acknowledge it! :furious:)

They live among us, eat at the same table, preach in the church and lead the choir.... teach at the school and rec center. They are the guys next door and the guy across the living room... we have to watch for and do something about the redflags.
I really fault Cassandra and Denise for ignoring them and then claiming innocence .... do not play victim when you are an accomplice.

[SeriouslySearching]

I agree! When it is spelled out in black and white court documents...it is choosing to ignore it. There are people who would have paid for that kind of information ahead of time before they had to pick up the pieces of a shattered little life!

[Starr58]

http://brookebennett.org


Randolph Area Care Team

The Randolph Area Care Team is a consortium of community leaders who have come together for the purpose of helping this community through the crisis of Brooke Bennett's abduction and death.

The team is made up of mental health care providers, clergy, educators, counselors, business people and members of Bethany Church.

Tentatively scheduled for Monday, July 7th, at 7pm, at Randolph Union High School this team will be joined by members of various regional critical incident stress management teams for a community information and support gathering (pending notification of funeral arrangements). At this time there will be an introduction to the Randolph Area Care Team, an update on the investigation by the Vermont State Police as well as information on stress and resources to help manage it. Participants will also have a chance to talk together in smaller groups facilitated by persons trained in critical incident stress management if they so wish. Due to space limitations we respectfully ask that the media not attend this event.

We are thankful to the many agencies and individuals that have responded to this effort and firmly believe this tragedy will not define us, but our response to it will.

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't know that I expect much to come out today. Have they already scheduled a presser?

[becca]

I agree! When it is spelled out in black and white court documents...it is choosing to ignore it. There are people who would have paid for that kind of information ahead of time before they had to pick up the pieces of a shattered little life!

Exactly... so many children have been victims when Mom had no clue... these women (I won't call them Moms) knew and ignored everything. How can you do that and still say woe is me?

[becca]

I'll be back later , I was up all night with the baby.... I need a nap.

[calidreamin]

My mother still doesn't lock her doors during the day. But locks her car...go figure.

LOL MCDRAW I never locked my doors either, grew up in a small town where nothing ever happend. After being at Websleuths and seeing what can happen in the world I lock my doors at all times and the car too.:crazy:

[Starr58]

Brooke Bennett

July 6, 2008

BRAINTEE — Funeral Services for Brooke Bennett, 12, of Braintree, who died last week, will be held in a different location than originally planned.

Services are now scheduled for 11 a.m. Wednesday, July 9, outdoors, under a tent, behind Randolph Union High School.

Calling hours remain unchanged, and will be 5-8 p.m. Tuesday in Murray Auditorium at Randolph Union High School.

Arrangements are by Day Funeral Home in Randolph.

[calidreamin]

No truer words were ever posted! They come from every walk of life and look like fine, upstanding men on the surface. They may have seemingly normal families, lead seemingly normal lives, and still be the scum of the earth! Stranger danger is one thing, but this animal is quite the other. Most don't show up with a warning tag like Uncle Creepy did! (Yet Denise and Cassandra still refused to acknowledge it! :furious:)
Very true that they are very good at looking normal on the outside. Reminds me of good advice I got when my kids were tiny from their doctor. He said to teach them that the bogie man doesn't look like a monster, he looks like the average person next door.

[SeriouslySearching]

Is anyone else having trouble accessing wcax this morning? It keeps telling me it is under construction.

[SeriouslySearching]

Starr, would you mind including a link with that? Thanks!

I wonder why they are moving it? Is the school not large enough to handle the crowd?

[Starr58]

Is anyone else having trouble accessing wcax this morning? It keeps telling me it is under construction.


WCAX is working fine for me.:)

[Starr58]

Starr, would you mind including a link with that? Thanks!

I wonder why they are moving it? Is the school not large enough to handle the crowd?

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/OBITUARIES/807060476/0/SPORTS

[olepi]

Is anyone else having trouble accessing wcax this morning? It keeps telling me it is under construction.

I get the same 'under construction' notice. It's either a DNS problem or they're geographically limiting the people who can access the site. All of us out-of-towners are sucking up their bandwidth.

[missVT77]

I just wanted to mention something about this site--I had a hard time figuring out how to register. I tried a few different times and the error message just said "your email address has been banned." And I was baffled until I wrote to someone who was kind enough to tell me that they meant like gmail and yahoo addresses were banned, so I used my work one. But I almost gave up! But I kept coming back and reading and when I saw the sugarshack discussion I had to get involved.

I have enjoyed your community and how you are respectful and kind to each other and newcomers. I especially like your signature, dark_shadows: With love and respect. I wish all the boards I posted on were this kind to each other. You are just working together to try and figure this out as much as possible and nobody is here to show up anybody else.

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Olepi! They need to fix it! I like their coverage. Thanks for letting me know!

Maybe someone local who is getting online to them can send their webmaster a note that we cannot access it. Please!

[SeriouslySearching]

We are glad you joined us and didn't give up, MissVT! :) We do have a good group here. (Excellent sleuths, too!)

[TallCoolOne]

Anybody have any idea what time the arraignments are going to take place today? TIA!!

~TCO~

[gaia227]

I have talked to a lot of people who have tried to register and could not....Michaela Garecht's mother for one and Christopher Robin's mother couldn't register either. It is frustrating. I had to try four different email addressed before I was able.

I am glad you didn't give up MissVT! The group at WS is about the most respectful online board I have been on.

[adnoid]

I have talked to a lot of people who have tried to register and could not....Michaela Garecht's mother for one and Christopher Robin's mother couldn't register either. It is frustrating. I had to try four different email addressed before I was able.

I am glad you didn't give up MissVT! The group at WS is about the most respectful online board I have been on.

OT - we do approve people who can only use free email services on a case by case basis. Contact chicoliving - she handles registrations.

The average signal to noise ratio from free email accounts and aol is lousy because there is a very low barrier to entry - you can make up a name, use it, and throw it away without spending a penny or ever having to give your real name so these email providers are attractive to the drive-by trolls and troublemakers. This is why they are automatically rejected. Places like In Session accept them and you can see the results.

[SeriouslySearching]

Anybody have any idea what time the arraignments are going to take place today? TIA!!

~TCO~The arraignment for Ray Gagnon is scheduled at 1:30 est. I don't think there is one set for MJ yet.

[Starr58]

Anybody have any idea what time the arraignments are going to take place today? TIA!!

~TCO~


1:30 pm in Burlington Vermont

[missVT77]

Has anyone figured out the name of Juvenile #2, AR's boyfriend?

[cheko1]

LOL I try to avoid it myself. I hear the food is lousy in this hotel. :crazy:

As far as tomorrow goes, I am looking forward to it. I can't wait until Gagnon is out there for the public to see finally! I am sick of the Feds hiding the face of a known child porn trader and whatever else they are going to charge him with!! (I am very curious if Cassandra will show up for the hearing, too!)


I'm right with you my friend!!!! I can't wait to get his ugly face smeared all over the 6 pm News channels to show what a low life looser he is.

I also hope Denise shows up to support Cassandra. I want to see what she looks like.

[SeriouslySearching]

I haven't heard anyone mention if they have figured it out yet. I only want to know how old he is and how long he has dated AR.

[SeriouslySearching]

I'm right with you my friend!!!! I can't wait to get his ugly face smeared all over the 6 pm News channels to show what a low life looser he is.

I also hope Denise shows up to support Cassandra. I want to see what she looks like.I don't think they are on speaking terms, but I could be wrong. When the great-uncle made his statement early on during the first hearing for MJ, I took it to mean they were divided. I don't expect Denise to show up, but who knows with those two?!

[liljim]

could someone move my post in the MySpace thread back over here where it belongs? thanx!

i think someone moved it there accidentaly while moving other posts. :)

[Lola]

Does anyone have an idea of when Jacques inserted himself into this family and how. I was wondering if he was a friend of RG and that was perhaps how he met Denise? OR Did he first marry Denise and that is how Cassandra came to know Gagnon?

[galvino]

Lola- Since Denise married one guy and had AR by that guy's brother, it seems like there is a lot of 'sharing' going on (by that I mean alot of indescrimanant sex), so who knows which came 1st- RG or MJ?

My unedumacated gues is that MJ came 1st as his family are longstanding in the area- don't know much about Gagnon's family so I could be wrong.

[cheko1]

I don't think they are on speaking terms, but I could be wrong. When the great-uncle made his statement early on during the first hearing for MJ, I took it to mean they were divided. I don't expect Denise to show up, but who knows with those two?!

I took it to mean the very same SS. But could never imagine if my sister's daughter was found murdered how bad I'd feel especially when my husband was the suspect & probably the murderer. :furious:

Then again we're talking about Denise....who looked the other way & totally failed to be a mother to her daughter. Sorry for my rant but I'd still like to beech slap them all.

[Lola]

Thx galvino. I'm thinking we need to do some sort of a family tree on this bunch.

[galvino]

More like a family vine- I haven't had this much trouble keeping relationships straight since the FLDS mess! It's like Kudzu!

[Medea]

I took it to mean the very same SS. But could never imagine if my sister's daughter was found murdered how bad I'd feel especially when my husband was the suspect & probably the murderer. :furious:

Then again we're talking about Denise....who looked the other way & totally failed to be a mother to her daughter. Sorry for my rant but I'd still like to beech slap them all.

I would think a normal person, who really didn't have any idea her husband was a serial sex offender who had turned her own daughter into a victim/predator after raping and abusing her, would be contemplating SUICIDE.

Given Cassandra's ultra defensive statements about what a great parent she was and that she never let her daughter be with Jacques without another adult present [yeah right], I suspect Denise is also playing the innocent victim. She didn't know nuthin. Neither one of those fools did, apparently.

And the result is one dead girl, one girl irretrevably harmed.

[Carrington]

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080707/NEWS/982199479

Meanwhile, Vermont State Police say it could be up to eight weeks before results of an autopsy on Brooke's body are known. When that information becomes available it will be released by the office of Vermont's U.S. Attorney.

Gagnon is due in court at 1:30 p.m., Jacques at 3:15, the U.S. Attorney's office said in a statement.

[MCDRAW]

Not as scary as hearing this tho! :eek: Why would your door be unlocked and left wide open?!


We very rarely use the back door. When my children use the back door they tend to leave it open. I check the back door when I think they have gone out that door. We added on to our house, that part is unfinished, so it's not in use at this time. We have another door seperateing the two. Because of the construction, we do not normally go out the back. And for some reason my children think they were born in a barn.

[Medea]

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080707/NEWS/982199479

Meanwhile, Vermont State Police say it could be up to eight weeks before results of an autopsy on Brooke's body are known. When that information becomes available it will be released by the office of Vermont's U.S. Attorney.

Gagnon is due in court at 1:30 p.m., Jacques at 3:15, the U.S. Attorney's office said in a statement.


That seems to support the idea that Brooke's body was in an advanced state of decomposition, either naturally or via something Jacques did to her.

Otherwise, why would it take 8 weeks to at least get a COD or some DNA evidence?

[MCDRAW]

That seems to support the idea that Brooke's body was in an advanced state of decomposition, either naturally or via something Jacques did to her.

Otherwise, why would it take 8 weeks to at least get a COD or some DNA evidence?


It could be or they could just want more time to keep things quiet while they get all their ducks in row.

[gigi2009]

But didn't the obit state that there would be a wake? I thought that usually meant open casket.

[Amster]

Can't they usually find COD pretty quick? Maybe 8 weeks to get toxicology tests.....

[Medea]

It could be or they could just want more time to keep things quiet while they get all their ducks in row.

But why would they need to keep things quiet? I'm in the minority I guess, but I don't think this was a large conspiracy or that there are other current victims of Jacques, I'm sure he has sexually assaulted other(s) in the past, maybe adults or teenagers, but as far as 'sex ring' type victims similar to AR I don't see it.

I can only think they would want to keep it quiet to give them more time to interrogate Jacques...possibly get him to confess.

I know that CSI gives people an unrealistic view of how long it takes to condut these tests, but a 2 month autopsy on a girl that was dead at most for one week seems unusual to me. Plus, they will sometimes release partial info like COD before the full autopsy comes out...and it sounds like that's not exactly what they're doing here.

[Busylady]

Do you know the area of Anniston, Alabama? If so what is it like, and have you heard of anything going on in that area?

Thank you. I have heard not a word mention on the local news. I live about 20/25 minutes from Cullman.

[Carrington]

Can't they usually find COD pretty quick? Maybe 8 weeks to get toxicology tests.....


Why they can't release the autopsy before 8 weeks baffles me.
Tox always takes 6-8 weeks. I have never understood why :confused:
Sounds like a business that should be expanded. More labs, please.
IMO

[SeriouslySearching]

Thx galvino. I'm thinking we need to do some sort of a family tree on this bunch.I believe BusyLady has this covered. :)

[SeriouslySearching]

We very rarely use the back door. When my children use the back door they tend to leave it open. I check the back door when I think they have gone out that door. We added on to our house, that part is unfinished, so it's not in use at this time. We have another door seperateing the two. Because of the construction, we do not normally go out the back. And for some reason my children think they were born in a barn.Oh, Whew! I thought someone was trying to get in or messing with you! Thanks for clearing that up! KIDS!

[Busylady]

Sometimes the COD is not clear cut, also I am sure they are running a bunch of toxicology and DNA test and those take time. I hate to say it but I am afraid there