Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #11

[christine2448]

Please continue discussions here.

Other related thread links can be found at the bottom of the page.

[SeriouslySearching]

Two Found Dead in Spencer

It was a tragic start to the holiday weekend. Two people are found murdered inside a vehicle in a rural part of Oklahoma County. This morning a male and female were found dead on Northeast 34th Street, between Wright Avenue and Timber. Authorities are piecing together the tragic events, and looking for those responsible. Just after 10 a.m. authorities find a white car which contains the bodies of a man and woman, both shot in the head.

"There was one person in the front or one person in the back," said Mark Myers, the Spokesperson of the Oklahoma County Sheriff's Office. "Currently, our crime scene investigators will comb everything thoroughly to try and determine what evidence is in the car and around the car."

One neighbor said she saw the Chevy Impala parked and turned off in the north side brush earlier in the morning.

http://www.ksbitv.com/news/23205249.html

[GetSmart]

"The poster was way2concerned. She went to a lot of trouble to get that article. (I'm sure she would have posted it here herself, but she has tried to join Websleuths with little success. I don't know if it is an email problem, but I don't believe she has been able to log in.) "


Thanks Claycat It was very late ( 1:57 am) & I had lost the topix link & just could not make self go look again thanks way2concerned for your scan, good job done. Hope you can join us soon.
I also put link in media thread
-
Scanned Newspaper article re: Cross Tampering
Thought I would put a link here to an image scanned in regards to the cross being tampered with. A poster on another forum scanned it.

http://tinypic.com/1r4zyown


http://i27.tinypic.com/95tnvs.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

[Albert18]

The fact the case appears dead and LE isn't commenting, is a big story. A front page story in my opinion. I think a good reporter could come up with a very nice story that would have LE running to a press conference.

LE needs to understand this crime doesn't belong to them and us civilians aren't mushrooms.

9/11 taught the authorities that the public is not the enemy. The general public in fact is a very important line of defense. Apparently that memo hasn't reached everybody.

[Mysterylover]

The fact the case appears dead and LE isn't commenting, is a big story. A front page story in my opinion. I think a good reporter could come up with a very nice story that would have LE running to a press conference.

LE needs to understand this crime doesn't belong to them and us civilians aren't mushrooms.

9/11 taught the authorities that the public is not the enemy.

The general public in fact is a very important line of defense.

Apparently that memo hasn't reached everybody.....


I agree...It's my opinion, from years of reading crime books that, If LE included the general public with more detailed information, more crimes would be solved, quicker.....jmo

[Morag]

Some of us believe that this crime was committed by a young person, or a group of young people.

If so, law enforcement is carefully working its way through the youth community, getting bits and pieces of information from kids, some of whom are abiding by the "kid code of honor" and refusing to talk. Kids who choose to talk, and their parents, are likely concerned about being sued, or harrassed, or shunned by their peers.

Complete silence from LE, and perhaps a deliberate lack of digging or diligence by the press (they have to live there, too) indicates to me that the suspect(s) are local.

[EnvoyDriver61]

I don't lose heart, because it reminds me of the Cadet Murder case that was local to where I live.

A girl is killed at night. They had in fact interviewed the young person who killed her from just his first name being among her papers or she had mentioned it to her relatives (I forget which). It looked cold until the female half of the killing team went to her military appointment and spilled the beans during one of her training sessions.

However, I do think they need to consider all the options we have. They seem to have focused on the local thrill or hush kill scenario and have pinned all hopes on the POI showing up and telling what he saw.

[DeltaDawn]

Thanks to Claycat for posting the scan and way2concerned for posting it on Topix.

I hope that way2concerned can get in here..we can use the help and local perspective.

[Albert18]

Complete silence from LE, and perhaps a deliberate lack of digging or diligence by the press (they have to live there, too) indicates to me that the suspect(s) are local.

This is what I am thinking also. In fact it is the only explanation that makes sense to me.

If this is true though, then what kind of a community is this?

[GetSmart]

Thanks to Claycat for posting the scan and way2concerned for posting it on Topix.

I hope that way2concerned can get in here..we can use the help and local perspective.

I posted The scan & CC told me about way2concerned & helped me give her credit :)

I am hoping too that something is going on that we don't know about. I'm getting ready to call OSBI or The local LE & ask.. if we should should lay low too because they are keeping it quiet on purpose... not really.. but why not ??

[philamena]

This is what I am thinking also. In fact it is the only explanation that makes sense to me.

If this is true though, then what kind of a community is this?

The latest news blows my mind. :confused:
If I lived in that community, I'd have to move.
How and why are these murders happening in such a small town? A town that had no murders in what-- 4 years? Now there's been 4 murders within weeks.

[Morag]

This is what I am thinking also. In fact it is the only explanation that makes sense to me.

If this is true though, then what kind of a community is this?

We don't know yet! Many may have spoken frankly to LE and are keeping their mouths shut, like good citizens. Or, alternately, everyone in town might be totally shtum, protecting the wrongdoers.

As I recall, it was two or three days before the "witnesses" to the POI came forward. Surely a disinterested local who had driven down that road would have come forward immediately to describe what he/she had seen.

One of the quotes that continues to bother me is (more or less), "the boys with guns were 3 miles away when the killings took place." The bridge was only a few hundred yards, so they couldn't have been there. And how did they-or anyone- know precisely when the murders happened ? The window of opportunity is small (5-25 minutes or so), but not so small as to preclude their being 3 miles away and still being able to enter and exit that window.

[GetSmart]

Did we ever find out if the FBI was called?

[FlowerChild]

OSBI (Oklahoma City) has this case - I don't think the local LE (Okfuskee County Sheriff, I believe) are doing much or in charge of the press/media. If there is a lack of communication with the public, it is due to the OSBI, not local LE. Local LE may be doing the footwork locally (or some of it) but I don't think it is them who has shut down the media or press releases.

Perhaps OSBI is HOPING there is some DNA or other important crime scene evidence still "in process"? OR there is information from the crime scene or autopsies they don't want made public yet? Or they may be working on something and want to be SURE it pans out before making it public? I doubt the OSBI plans to let this case grow cold in THEIR eyes, but they may be wanting it to grow cold in the PUBLIC ARENA so the POI feels safe and starts taking chances again.

I don't think is has to do with "local kids" - local young adults, maybe, but not juveniles. There aren't so many teenaged juveniles within 25 miles that the Sheriff's Office can't question all of them within a month's time. Now young people - ages 18-25 would be a lot harder, with college kids maybe home for summer, but this is a rural area - the college age kids usually find hang-outs and things to do where there are OTHER YOUNG PEOPLE, I assume the local Sherfiff is well acquainted with the habits of the local young people. The OSBI has not given a single indication that there is anyone they are looking for other than the POI -and they have not mentioned a single connection to any local people (outside family) at all. By this point I would assume that teachers, school officials and friends of any local teenaged suspects would have been questioned and I cannot imagine that ALL of these kids - most of whom have Facebook and MySpace pages - would have stayed silent about an investigation or even rumors of one. Something would have slipped out by now, I think.

I think there is another reason for the silence - just no idea what it could be - many possibilities. OSBI isn't a bunch of Barney Fife's and I trust they are using every possible resource to solve this case. If they wanted the PR or the media, they would have it - their silence seems puposeful, not from neglect.

My Opinion

[TGIRecovered]

Two Found Dead in Spencer

It was a tragic start to the holiday weekend. Two people are found murdered inside a vehicle in a rural part of Oklahoma County. This morning a male and female were found dead on Northeast 34th Street, between Wright Avenue and Timber. Authorities are piecing together the tragic events, and looking for those responsible. Just after 10 a.m. authorities find a white car which contains the bodies of a man and woman, both shot in the head.

"There was one person in the front or one person in the back," said Mark Myers, the Spokesperson of the Oklahoma County Sheriff's Office. "Currently, our crime scene investigators will comb everything thoroughly to try and determine what evidence is in the car and around the car."

One neighbor said she saw the Chevy Impala parked and turned off in the north side brush earlier in the morning.

http://www.ksbitv.com/news/23205249.html

Do any of you know how close this was to the place the girls were killed? Any local scoop on the identities of the victims, or owner of the vehicle?

Susan

[tulsa]

It's about 85 miles away. Google has street view of the area. Zoom out to see google's directions to Weleetka. http://tinyurl.com/5rttjl

[FlowerChild]

Spencer is basically a part of Metro Oklahoma City - It is about 80 miles Southwest of Weleetka
I would not consider it "rural" in the same way Weleetka is rural.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Spencer-Oklahoma.html
Population (year 2000): 3,746. Estimated population in July 2006: 3,918 (+4.6% change)


Males: 1,821 (48.6%)Females: 1,925 (51.4%)
Oklahoma County (http://www.city-data.com/county/Oklahoma_County-OK.html)
Median resident age: 37.9 yearsOklahoma median age: 35.5 years
Zip codes: 73084 (http://www.city-data.com/zips/73084.html).

Estimated median household income in 2005: $33,100 (it was $31,116 in 2000)
Spencer $33,100 Oklahoma:$37,063

Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $67,700 (it was $51,600 in 2000) Spencer $67,700 Oklahoma: $89,100

Races in Spencer:


Black (51.8%)
White Non-Hispanic (38.7%)
American Indian (6.1%)
Two or more races (4.5%)
Hispanic (2.3%)
Other race (0.5%)

[ArizonaGiGi]

[quote=TGIRecovered;2357749]Do any of you know how close this was to the place the girls were killed? Any local scoop on the identities of the victims, or owner of the vehicle?

Susan
Spencer is about 85 miles East of Weleetka, just north of OK City according to mapquest

[FlowerChild]

I haven't found anything more on this other than the victim's family names - Frazier and Bruner. I don't believe it has anything to do with the Weleetka case - Spencer is only like 10 miles from downtown OKC - it could have been anything - lots going on there - big fireworks display, parties, it being a holiday weekend and all. Several witnesses saw their car go down the street - several houses right there and LE already has a POI in custody and is questioning two others.

My Opinion

[tulsa]

33-year-old Kristan K. Bruner and 29-year-old Shalese M. Frazier
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080705_12_SPENC47057

[Mysterylover]

We don't know yet! Many may have spoken frankly to LE and are keeping their mouths shut, like good citizens. Or, alternately, everyone in town might be totally shtum, protecting the wrongdoers.

As I recall, it was two or three days before the "witnesses" to the POI came forward. Surely a disinterested local who had driven down that road would have come forward immediately to describe what he/she had seen.

One of the quotes that continues to bother me is (more or less), "the boys with guns were 3 miles away when the killings took place." The bridge was only a few hundred yards, so they couldn't have been there. And how did they-or anyone- know precisely when the murders happened ?

The window of opportunity is small (5-25 minutes or so), but not so small as to preclude their being 3 miles away and still being able to enter and exit that window.

Good points...
at 60 miles an hour it would only take 3 minutes to be 3 miles away.....imo

[frogjustfrog]

Hello. I'm in now. :clap:
jmo, but I dont feel like there is a connection between these 2 murders. But we cant dismiss the possibility. Would need more info, huh? I still feel like it was a local in the girls' case.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Originally Posted by ArizonaGiGi http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2354858#post2354858)
this case has just gone silent. nothing from le. nothing from reporters. nothing

Hey you people of Oklahoma - get pissed!!!!!!! Do something about it!!!!!

I am outraged that this has is not in the news and on National TV constantly :furious:


SSquote;We are...but when the media tells you that LE is giving them nothing to do a story on...well...not much we can do about that. Putting pressure on the media is fine, but LE doesn't have to respond to them either.

Why aren't the people of AZ up in arms about Brianna Dennison?! I don't see anything on her case anymore in the AZ press either. Same thing...you can't force the press to create stories out of nothing.
__________________

SS,
She was killed in Nevada last I heard. And you gotta admit, an 11 and 13 year gunned down in broad daylight, execution style? in rural Oklahoma is more unheard of than a rape/kidnapping/murder of a 20's something. Or do you just like to argue??????????

[FlowerChild]

Good points...
at 60 miles an hour it would only take 3 minutes to be 3 miles away.....imo
Not if the other location was on a rough dirt road like the one the girls were killed on. Half of those roads are like driving on a washboard - you aren't going to do 40 on them, much less 60. We don't even know if the boys were NEAR a road, or if the road connected with the ones leading to the murder scene.

Since LE has said the kids were NOT INVOLVED I am going to assume they were NOT INVOLVED. There could have been 20 people shooting guns at a popular spot on a nice sunny Sunday afternoon - I am assuming that there are alibi witnesses that put the boys at the other location for the ENTIRE TIME from 4:30 to 5:40 PM on Sunday. I am also assuming LE has checked the guns and they are NOT the murder weapons (weren't they shooting shotguns?).

Local LE interviewed and Polygraphed over 150 local people in the 1st 10 days - I am gonna wager a guess that over a MONTH into the case they are pretty certain that the POI is NOT LOCAL and that they have covered all the teenagers who they think COULD have been in the area or who had a record, or who made threats, or said something suspicious to a friend. I bet they have also interviewed and abili'd every RSO, ex con and parolee in the area. Nobody has been arrested (that we know of) in relation to this case. As far as we know, the POI has still not been located or even identified despite thousands of tips from all over the US. And even the previously "chatty" LOCAL LE is quiet - and I don't think it's because they have stopped working on this case either. This is in THEIR BACKYARD and it's CHILDREN - I think they are doing everything they CAN to find the killer(s).

The OSBI is SO silent I THINK they have ASKED AMW and other similar shows to cut back the coverage. I THINK they may have a reason to keep the media quiet right now. The Media hasn't forgotten, LE and the OSBI haven't forgotten - they are IMO, playing a game to tease (or drive) the POI (or another suspect) into the open. I betcha if we KNEW, a lot of key people in this case with LE (Local and State) are either out-of-pocket, unusually busy, seemingly pre-occupied and have suddenly started avoiding phone calls and aren't even gossiping or hinting about things in this case. They don'twant this messed up like the GS Murders and they are taking every precaution. It's unlike LE from the highest pinnacle in OKC to the local dispatcher to suddenly clam up on a high profile case only a MONTH IN - after saying the case was far from cold 2 weeks ago. If the OSBI/LE wanted this to be on every TV show and in every magazine and on every newscast, it would be. It's already made People Magazine, Greta, Nancy and AMW. It's a real mystery and yet everybody just dropped it in unison like a hot potato - WHY?? Parents all over the WORLD want this killer caught - if it bleeds it leads- this should be pulling big ratings for everyone - and yet they are ALL SILENT.

WE have to ask WHY? If we are asking many others are too - IMO there is SOMETHING going on and we just aren't in the loop....yet.

MY OPINION

[Trino]

WE have to ask WHY? If we are asking many others are too - IMO there is SOMETHING going on and we just aren't in the loop....yet.MY OPINION


I just don't agree that LE and OSBI are keeping info under wraps. This was the same thing that was suggested when Tara Grinstead disappeared, which was nearly 3 years ago. I think OSBI doesn't have a clue why or who.

[oceanblueeyes]

I just don't agree that LE and OSBI are keeping info under wraps. This was the same thing that was suggested when Tara Grinstead disappeared, which was nearly 3 years ago. I think OSBI doesn't have a clue why or who.

I certainly hope that is not true. Some cases do take more time to solve and it will be just a month tomorrow.

Now if months and months drags on I will begin to worry but not just after a month.

imoo

[frogjustfrog]

Oh, I think they have a clue. They have to keep things under wraps in order not to blotch up the investigation, and the trial, when there is one.

[Claycat]

Oh, I think they have a clue. They have to keep things under wraps in order not to blotch up the investigation, and the trial, when there is one.

Welcome, I'm glad you made it!

I sure think something is going on with LE. It is too quiet, and the quiet speaks volumes. It's like the calm before the storm.

[oceanblueeyes]

Welcome, I'm glad you made it!

I sure think something is going on with LE. It is too quiet, and the quiet speaks volumes. It's like the calm before the storm.

I think you are right.

Things are going on right now imo that we have no clue about. They aren't sitting on their thumbs not for one minute. I think they are actively pursuing this case and have someone in their cross-hairs. They will take their time before they move in imo. They want this to be done right and not in a hurry were mistakes can be made.

imoo

[frogjustfrog]

I agree totally, and I am glad for it. We want this to be over!
Thanks again, ladies:blowkiss:

[frogjustfrog]

now that i feel more secure here, you can email me if i have my settings right, and I will give you a link to know more about me.

[oceanblueeyes]

Oh, I think they have a clue. They have to keep things under wraps in order not to blotch up the investigation, and the trial, when there is one.


Welcome frogjustfrog!

I love your nic.:)

You are right.....we want this solved but done right. I am a patient person. I can wait until LE is ready.

imoo

[frogjustfrog]

I sure wish you felt something, CC

[GetSmart]

I am going to faith they have this under control..We have said it before wish we had something to go on. Can yall remember who it was that had family in LE around there?

[frogjustfrog]

no, I dont remember.

[frogjustfrog]

I do think it is important for us to hang tight, and to keep exploring possibilities, and checking on sites that are posted to the girls, or anything that could produce leads

[GetSmart]

I do think it is important for us to hang tight, and to keep exploring possibilities, and checking on sites that are posted to the girls, or anything that could produce leads
Yes you are right. We Be Sleuthing

[Victor]

I just don't agree that LE and OSBI are keeping info under wraps...I think OSBI doesn't have a clue why or who.

I totally agree. It's sad. And what's worse, the vicious killers who are running around free today may be killing others right now, or maybe have already slaughtered others since the 2 child murders.

We can't afford this type of do-nothing, say-nothing investigation. But it's a great way to get more people killed, if that's what you want.

[Tom'sGirl]

I do think it is important for us to hang tight, and to keep exploring possibilities, and checking on sites that are posted to the girls, or anything that could produce leads
Welcome to Websleuths fjf. I've read many of your posts over at Topix.

[frogjustfrog]

Thank you!

[frogjustfrog]

I totally agree. It's sad. And what's worse, the vicious killers who are running around free today may be killing others right now, or maybe have already slaughtered others since the 2 child murders.

We can't afford this type of do-nothing, say-nothing investigation. But it's a great way to get more people killed, if that's what you want.

Would you rather the LE blurt out everything they know, blow the case and investigation, and allow the killer(s) to run free? we must pray for patience, and have faith in our LE. IF we have so many ideas and questions, can you just imagine all they have to sort through? And then some!
Have faith. Maybe that's what God is waiting on.

[docwho3]

As I said elsewhere, I am hopeful that this one will be solved. I think it is possible that L.E. is getting farther with this case than we know. I don't have any inside info but this case has some characteristics that would seem to make it solvable.

[SeriouslySearching]

Originally Posted by ArizonaGiGi http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2354858#post2354858)
this case has just gone silent. nothing from le. nothing from reporters. nothing

Hey you people of Oklahoma - get pissed!!!!!!! Do something about it!!!!!

I am outraged that this has is not in the news and on National TV constantly :furious:


SSquote;We are...but when the media tells you that LE is giving them nothing to do a story on...well...not much we can do about that. Putting pressure on the media is fine, but LE doesn't have to respond to them either.

Why aren't the people of AZ up in arms about Brianna Dennison?! I don't see anything on her case anymore in the AZ press either. Same thing...you can't force the press to create stories out of nothing.
__________________

SS,
She was killed in Nevada last I heard. And you gotta admit, an 11 and 13 year gunned down in broad daylight, execution style? in rural Oklahoma is more unheard of than a rape/kidnapping/murder of a 20's something. Or do you just like to argue??????????No, Sorry! I am tired. Been on too many cases lately and I guess they run together sometimes. My apologies. However, I would still like the media to pick up more on Bri's case and this case...but it doesn't seem to be happening with or without outcries from the public.

[SeriouslySearching]

The only reason I posted the murders in Spencer was because there was little news out at the time and both were shot in the head. While they probably are not related, I thought it should be posted so we could find out more.

[ArizonaGiGi]

[quote=SeriouslySearching;2359262]No, Sorry! I am tired. Been on too many cases lately and I guess they run together sometimes. My apologies. However, I would still like the media to pick up more on Bri's case and this case...but it doesn't seem to be happening with or without outcries from the public.

:blowkiss: ya I know how you feel. It's a pisser that there aren't some bad guys locked up right now for these cases!! I wish I could do something to help.

[FlowerChild]

I just don't agree that LE and OSBI are keeping info under wraps. This was the same thing that was suggested when Tara Grinstead disappeared, which was nearly 3 years ago. I think OSBI doesn't have a clue why or who.
The two cases are totally different - a missing adult and two murdered children. In Tara's case they have no physical evidence and no body - in this case, they have both, and A POI that is identifiable - more than just a poor quality security cam frame with a fence blocking the face.

I hope BOTH cases are solved, but I cannot draw any comparison in the way these two were handled by LE or what LE said/did. In Tara's case there is/ was no shortage of coverage - it's still getting press (and LE is PUSHING for it) after more than 2 years. Weleeltka LE and the OSBI are oddly (and illogically) quiet while the public clamors for updates and the media seems to have ALL gone totally silent all of a sudden - and it sure doesn't appear the case is anywhere near cold or without information that makes it solvable. I mean they aren't even pushing for the sketch to be promoted? That makes like ZERO sense.

The circumstances and the weight of evidence and witnesses certainly lead me to believe the Weleetka case is both very active and solvable. How it could be cold with a POI, physical evidence, 2 undeniably innocent victims and a clean crime scene, in less than 4 weeks, I cannot imagine??!! There aren't even full autopsies or DNA results yet. My gut says it's not cold, more like dry ice---it looks cold but it will BURN you bad. I think this "cold case" is about to burn somebody who thinks they have committed the perfect crime.

Every media outlet from the tiny local paper to ALL the Oklahoma major print and broadcast media all the way up to Fox, CNN, USA Today, People Magazine and all the networks went from furious frequent reports to NOTHING - even though NOTHING has reportedly been done or happened (officially anyway) to discourage coverage. Yes, cases do go cold, but not ones with a POI sketch so detailed it could be a PHOTO and before all the evidence has even been analyzed (as far as we have been told anyway). It's WAY too soon (and the case far too hot) for this to drop off the radar from lack of info or public disinterest - especially locally. The GS Murders still get covered and that was over 30 years ago. What is happening here is NOT logical or normal - not in any similar case I have seen.

I am gonna stick with my initial feeling that there is a darn good reason we are enduring an info/media drought in this case. I trust there will be justice for these two Angels - they are inspiring everyone in this, LE included. May Tara find justice soon as well.

My Opinion

[Trino]

The two cases are totally different - a missing adult and two murdered children. In Tara's case they have no physical evidence and no body - in this case, they have both, and A POI that is identifiable - more than just a poor quality security cam frame with a fence blocking the face.

I hope BOTH cases are solved, but I cannot draw any comparison in the way these two were handled by LE or what LE said/did. In Tara's case there is/ was no shortage of coverage - it's still getting press (and LE is PUSHING for it) after more than 2 years. Weleeltka LE and the OSBI are oddly (and illogically) quiet while the public clamors for updates and the media seems to have ALL gone totally silent all of a sudden - and it sure doesn't appear the case is anywhere near cold or without information that makes it solvable. I mean they aren't even pushing for the sketch to be promoted? That makes like ZERO sense.

The circumstances and the weight of evidence and witnesses certainly lead me to believe the Weleetka case is both very active and solvable. How it could be cold with a POI, physical evidence, 2 undeniably innocent victims and a clean crime scene, in less than 4 weeks, I cannot imagine??!! There aren't even full autopsies or DNA results yet. My gut says it's not cold, more like dry ice---it looks cold but it will BURN you bad. I think this "cold case" is about to burn somebody who thinks they have committed the perfect crime.

Every media outlet from the tiny local paper to ALL the Oklahoma major print and broadcast media all the way up to Fox, CNN, USA Today, People Magazine and all the networks went from furious frequent reports to NOTHING - even though NOTHING has reportedly been done or happened (officially anyway) to discourage coverage. Yes, cases do go cold, but not ones with a POI sketch so detailed it could be a PHOTO and before all the evidence has even been analyzed (as far as we have been told anyway). It's WAY too soon (and the case far too hot) for this to drop off the radar from lack of info or public disinterest - especially locally. The GS Murders still get covered and that was over 30 years ago. What is happening here is NOT logical or normal - not in any similar case I have seen.

I am gonna stick with my initial feeling that there is a darn good reason we are enduring an info/media drought in this case. I trust there will be justice for these two Angels - they are inspiring everyone in this, LE included. May Tara find justice soon as well. My Opinion

I believe you're confusing Tara and Jennifer's cases. There was no security camera in Tara's case.

All I was saying was that people seemed to think Georgia LE had something under wraps, which apparently they did not. I don't know why reporters haven't confronted Rosser. He seemed so open to their comments earlier.

[tulsa]

"Unfortunately, there's nothing to report, but to date, we have 451 leads received, and we have given a number of polygraphs, including a polygraph (Monday). So this case is still very active and ongoing," Florence said.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080708_12_WELEE78514

[christine2448]

I just don't agree that LE and OSBI are keeping info under wraps. This was the same thing that was suggested when Tara Grinstead disappeared, which was nearly 3 years ago. I think OSBI doesn't have a clue why or who.

I hope your wrong, in both cases.

[christine2448]

Weleetka case not progressing

Associated Press - July 8, 2008 12:35 AM ET
WELEETKA, Okla. (AP) - One month after two girls were shot to death on a rural Okfuskee County road, investigators don't appear to be much closer to solving the crime than they were the day it happened.
No arrests have been made. No suspects have been identified. No motive has been determined. And a sketch of a mystery man who is listed as a "person of interest" has produced hundreds of leads but no notable results.

http://www.kswo.com/Global/story.asp?S=8632169 (http://www.kswo.com/Global/story.asp?S=8632169)

[Trino]

Of course, I hope I'm wrong about the case not making progress. I think my frustration comes with all the offers of outside help, yet it appears OSBI is intent on doing the investigation themselves. But, of course, maybe they are using the FBI, although there's no outside indication they are doing so.

[Claycat]

Dang! :(

[SeriouslySearching]

Weleetka case not progressing

Associated Press - July 8, 2008 12:35 AM ET
WELEETKA, Okla. (AP) - One month after two girls were shot to death on a rural Okfuskee County road, investigators don't appear to be much closer to solving the crime than they were the day it happened.
No arrests have been made. No suspects have been identified. No motive has been determined. And a sketch of a mystery man who is listed as a "person of interest" has produced hundreds of leads but no notable results.

http://www.kswo.com/Global/story.asp?S=8632169 (http://www.kswo.com/Global/story.asp?S=8632169)Well...at least someone finally wrote something. I guess it isn't all bad news. :mad:

[oceanblueeyes]

[quote=SeriouslySearching;2359262]No, Sorry! I am tired. Been on too many cases lately and I guess they run together sometimes. My apologies. However, I would still like the media to pick up more on Bri's case and this case...but it doesn't seem to be happening with or without outcries from the public.

:blowkiss: ya I know how you feel. It's a pisser that there aren't some bad guys locked up right now for these cases!! I wish I could do something to help.

It is so frustrating but it seems the Megan Touma case may be bogged down also.

But I do believe that these cases will be solved. I have got to keep the faith that they will.

If OSBI just administered a polygraph this Monday that shows this case certainly has not grown cold by any stretch of the imagination. They probably haven't even gotten the forensic results back yet since it has only been a month.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Of course, I hope I'm wrong about the case not making progress. I think my frustration comes with all the offers of outside help, yet it appears OSBI is intent on doing the investigation themselves. But, of course, maybe they are using the FBI, although there's no outside indication they are doing so.

On their site didn't they say they were taking this case "national"? If so they have no jurisdiction to do that on their own and would have to ask for FBI and US Marshall's office to assist them.

imoo

[SeriouslySearching]

Body Found In River

Posted: July 7, 2008 08:55 PM CDT

The medical examiner is trying to identify a man's body pulled out of the Arkansas River in Muskogee County. A fisherman found the body of a white man in his 20s.

Investigators say the man has tattoos and a wallet, but they still couldn't make a positive identification. Detectives think the man is from Tulsa, but can't say how long ago he died.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8631719

Again, not saying it is related in any way...but wanted to mention it until we know more.

[SeriouslySearching]

Webber Falls is a straight shot east on I-40 from Weleetka, OK about an hour away.

More on the story:

Muskogee County Sheriff Charles Pearson says a fisherman found a body by the Webbers Falls Dam Monday at 9:30am.

Pearson says the man's body was badly decomposed and is possibly from Tulsa. No word if foul play is involved

http://www.kjrh.com/content/news/2viewgc/story.aspx?content_id=8b7ee24f-aff6-44ad-b808-b2abdea518e9

[Albert18]

The circumstances and the weight of evidence and witnesses certainly lead me to believe the Weleetka case is both very active and solvable. How it could be cold with a POI, physical evidence, 2 undeniably innocent victims and a clean crime scene, in less than 4 weeks, I cannot imagine??!! There aren't even full autopsies or DNA results yet. My gut says it's not cold, more like dry ice---it looks cold but it will BURN you bad. I think this "cold case" is about to burn somebody who thinks they have committed the perfect crime.

Every media outlet from the tiny local paper to ALL the Oklahoma major print and broadcast media all the way up to Fox, CNN, USA Today, People Magazine and all the networks went from furious frequent reports to NOTHING - even though NOTHING has reportedly been done or happened (officially anyway) to discourage coverage. Yes, cases do go cold, but not ones with a POI sketch so detailed it could be a PHOTO and before all the evidence has even been analyzed (as far as we have been told anyway). It's WAY too soon (and the case far too hot) for this to drop off the radar from lack of info or public disinterest - especially locally. The GS Murders still get covered and that was over 30 years ago. What is happening here is NOT logical or normal - not in any similar case I have seen.

I am gonna stick with my initial feeling that there is a darn good reason we are enduring an info/media drought in this case. I trust there will be justice for these two Angels - they are inspiring everyone in this, LE included. May Tara find justice soon as well.

My Opinion

This is what I tend to think also but I am constantly overwhelmed by the thought OSBI might just be inept. I get no impression OSBI wants help from the public, they just want to be left alone. Which means solving the case isn't the number one priority.

I don't think forensics will solve this, looking at relationships should solve this case. For that outsiders may be the answer. They need people who don't know or care how that part of the country works.

I think our only hope now is that somebody phones in the answer.

[philamena]

Has anyone been reported missing in that area since the girls were murdered?

[sheza]

Hello,

Nancy Grace 6-12-2008 transcripts.cnn.com/Transcripts ,

I found this interesting,

"Well, we've got calibers in mind, but I don't want to limit that to just those,
Had they fired at the girls and missed them, there could be projectiles used that we wasn't aware of. So we've just - I'm sure there's calibers being spoken about out there, but we just want to keep that between ourselves.
The investigators will know and the shooters will know when the time is right".

Missed them? Projectiles?

[KR2tonenow]

Weleetka case not progressing

Associated Press - July 8, 2008 12:35 AM ET
WELEETKA, Okla. (AP) - One month after two girls were shot to death on a rural Okfuskee County road, investigators don't appear to be much closer to solving the crime than they were the day it happened.
No arrests have been made. No suspects have been identified. No motive has been determined. And a sketch of a mystery man who is listed as a "person of interest" has produced hundreds of leads but no notable results.

http://www.kswo.com/Global/story.asp?S=8632169 (http://www.kswo.com/Global/story.asp?S=8632169)

Thanks for this Christine. NO motive, no suspects. Everything about this case was/is pointing towards a NA man that no one has ever seen again.
Yet, there were 6 witnesses who gave detailed descriptions of him, including his brilliant eye color. Quite intriguing actually.

Completely baffles me to NO end.
:confused:

[Mysterylover]

Thanks for this Christine. NO motive, no suspects. Everything about this case was/is pointing towards a NA man that no one has ever seen again.
Yet, there were 6 witnesses who gave detailed descriptions of him, including his brilliant eye color. Quite intriguing actually.

Completely baffles me to NO end.
:confused:

Look at the 1st picture, of a sex offender at the top of this page...
looks alot like the POI in my opinion....

http://crimeshadowsnews.com/main/

[Claycat]

Look at the 1st picture, of a sex offender at the top of this page...
looks alot like the POI in my opinion....

http://crimeshadowsnews.com/main/

It does look like the POI, but it said he didn't cut himself loose from his monitoring device until June 22 of this year. That means he was being tracked until then. They would have known he was out of the area early in June.

[Claycat]

Thanks for this Christine. NO motive, no suspects. Everything about this case was/is pointing towards a NA man that no one has ever seen again.
Yet, there were 6 witnesses who gave detailed descriptions of him, including his brilliant eye color. Quite intriguing actually.

Completely baffles me to NO end.
:confused:

KR2, I think only a couple of the witnesses actually saw him. The others either saw the girls or heard shots. At least, that's what I remember. I've read so much, I could be mistaken.

[KR2tonenow]

Look at the 1st picture, of a sex offender at the top of this page...
looks alot like the POI in my opinion....

http://crimeshadowsnews.com/main/

WOW, he even broke his probation. Great find!!!

LE and OSBI, any help tracking this POS?????

[KR2tonenow]

KR2, I think only a couple of the witnesses actually saw him. The others either saw the girls or heard shots. At least, that's what I remember. I've read some much, I could be mistaken.

I know CC. Why put all the eggs in one basket is my point? You came up with some interesting ideas, but I recall OSBI didn't want our opinions.

So where does this leave them?? With 0 as of today.

As for the Picture above, he could have broken probation 6/25 technically. He could have been "Free" to committ this crime. How come he's not around now to be tracked down now??

[Claycat]

OSBI didn't want our opinions? When were they asked, KR2?

[little726]

WOW!!!! He sure does look like the POI. I checked OCIS for a file on him, guess what? He was arrested on a traffic infraction back in 1989. It says he is from Gore, OK. He also drove a 1989 Ford. It did not say what color it was.

[bluestarzz]

letsthink - the poi from OK does look like the link you found = fritz child
molestor, but the murder of the 2 gals took place on 6-9? and he didn't
cut free until 6-22 (i think). so yes, he would have been tracked at the
time of the murders....that still doesn't mean that they didn't track him
there and that he didn't do it. especailly since he still missing.............
something to think about.
bluestarzz

[FlowerChild]

Look at the 1st picture, of a sex offender at the top of this page...
looks alot like the POI in my opinion....

http://crimeshadowsnews.com/main/
He does look like the sketch - BUT IF he was monitored and they know he was in Phoenix (or home/work etc) thru June 22nd 2008, he could not have killed Skyla and Taylor in Weleetka on June 8th. It isn't as if Phoenix is across the road from Weleetka OK. It takes like 16 hours (or so) to drive there from Phoenix (one way). And I sure think they'd know if he was gone for 2-3 DAYS - it took them only 24 hours to issue a warrant when he ditched the monitoring device.

And where did OSBI say they didn't want the Public's help? They have a NATIONWIDE MANHUNT going on for the POI - I assume that would indicate that they want people to help them locate him. At least that is what I would think - and I have read nothing to contradict that.

Every one of the recent articles I read just re-hashes the same information - except that in one LE verifies that the investigation is ongoing with polygraphs and tips. One poorly written article even repeated that there were two shooters because each girl was shot with two guns - which any reasonable person would know ONE PERSON can accomplish easily with two guns. :waitasec:

But the new articles do prove that the media is still LOOKING for new information and pushing the OSBI to reveal new information. OSBI just isn't talking - and I still believe there is a reason for the info valve to be shut off right now. We HAVE seen this before - usually in the weeks before there is an arrest or at least a warrant issued and some blockbuster revelation comes out (or is released). All I can say is hinky hinky hinky - my hinky meter is definitely feeling something - just can't put my finger on what it is.

And you know guys - LE could be questioning someone of interest every day and we wouldn't KNOW IT. It isn't like there are reporters sitting at the OSBI offices or at the Okfuskee County Sheriff's Office telling us who is coming and going.

Lets hope that progress IS being made and the families are a part of an arranged silence because I can say ONE THING - if this was MY DAUGHTER I would be on TV and on the computer and the phone all my waking hours every day trying to get the POI sketch out there and get him located and putting constant pressure on LE/OSBI....in PUBLIC. Frankly WE are creating more pressure than the family members are and that's kinda wierd to me unless the families have been ASKED to sit back and wait.

I understand grief - but I also know that I would grieve for a few days and then I wouldn't rest again so long as my child's killer was walking around free. I could rest when I die - until then, there's work to be done and a killer to catch. It isn't like this is one family being shy and quiet - but TWO families - and several "parents" and step -parents and G-Parents who loved each girl - all of whom are doing NOTHING to move the investigation forward or saying a word about it. Two families and they can't get ONE PERSON to step up and make this their "cause"? I'd have Greta, Nancy, People Magazine and Dominick Dunne on speed dial and be wearing out the car tires driving from the OSBI Office in OKC and the Sheriffs Office in Okfuskee County - and I'd be sure there was a TV crew there to see me doing it too! If not, I'd be bringing my own camera and someone to run it. I'd be doing everything I could to keep the case alive and fresh - those Angels deserve a force as steady and determined and focused as the turtles Taylor loved - I HOPE they have it and there's a good reason for why we don't know about it.

My Opinion

[fran]

It does look like the POI, but it said he didn't cut himself loose from his monitoring device until June 22 of this year. That means he was being tracked until then. They would have known he was out of the area early in June.

Hmmm.......wonder if he was in custody prior to his plea of guilty? I don't think he would have been monitored until AFTER June 12. IMO, he does look remarkebly like the person OK is seeking to question.

JMHO
fran



http://www.kpho.com/news/16789168/detail.html?rss=pho&psp=news

PHOENIX -- A 46-year-old convicted sex offender removed his GPS monitoring device and fled from probation on June 22, Phoenix police said Thursday.

Anthony Charles Fritz pleaded guilty on June 12 to one count of attempted sexual conduct with a minor.

<<<more at link>>>


PS..............Only up to 16 hour drive straight through from Weleetka to Phoenix. http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Weleetka&1s=OK&2c=Phoenix&2s=AZ

[sheza]

Thanks Websleuths for the welcome, Goodbye.

[fran]

Thanks Websleuths for the welcome, Goodbye.

Hi sheza!

:Welcome-12-june:

I don't think anyone is ignoring you. This case is just moving slowly now and not too many people here at the same time. LOL, I didn't even see your first post, just your second!

:)
fran

[FlowerChild]

On June 12, 1986, Anthony Charles Fritz, pled guilty to Attempted Sexual Conduct with a Minor. On March 26, 1993,Fritz pled guilty to Child Molestation and Attempted Child Molestation. This repeat offender was released from prison on March 23, 2007. On June 22 of this year, Fritz, on probation, cut loose from his tracking device and disappeared. On June 23 a probation violation was issued.
He is 47, 6' tall, 175 lbs and has brown hair and eyes (his hair appears fairly long in the photo shown)
http://crimeshadowsnews.com/main/

The info isn't clear about the period between June 1986 (1st conviction) and March 1993 (2nd conviction), but he obviously was in prison from March 26, 1993 to March 27, 2007 - at which time he was released on a monitored tracking device probation - which he cut loose on June 22, 2008 and is now wanted (as of June 23rd,2008).

There is no information on him violating his probation before he cut the tracking device loose - such as an extended absence of 2-3 days around June 8th, 2008. It should be easy to verify if he COULD be the POI in the Weleetka Case, just send this information to the OSBI, the Okfuskee County Sheriff's Dept and a Reporter or two in OK.

My Opinion

[fran]

That was confusing on that FC from one article to the next. You're probably right and the second article was probably a misprint.

fran

PS........OK, now on second thought, maybe this guy isn't so far out left field. He was originally from Gore, OK, when, IF one were to drive from Gore, OK, to Phoenix Az, it's a loonnnggg stretch via I40, driving right on by Weleetka............

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, interesting, wonder if it WASN'T until June 12, 2008 that he had his monitor on and he took it off June 22, 2008?????

fran

[Mysterylover]

WOW!!!! He sure does look like the POI. I checked OCIS for a file on him, guess what? He was arrested on a traffic infraction back in 1989.

It says he is from Gore, OK. He also drove a 1989 Ford. It did not say what color it was.

He could have possibly headed back to where he was from, Oklahoma...

[oceanblueeyes]

KR2, I think only a couple of the witnesses actually saw him. The others either saw the girls or heard shots. At least, that's what I remember. I've read so much, I could be mistaken.

From what I recall Agent Brown said they have had six witnesses who have come forward stating they saw the POI. I believe that was said in one of their last pressers. They may have even more witnesses now.

What we don't know is what else they saw besides him as that has been kept a secret by OSBI.

Then they said they had a witness that had seen the girls walking shortly before the murders occured.

imoo

[little726]

I found the court minutes from Maricopa AZ, on Fritz. They date back to 2/04. Here is the link http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/criminal/062008/m3212290.pdf.

[little726]

I sent the wrong page. But I think you can find all the minutes on him if you go to the Maricopa Superior court.

Please forgive me, I'm not that great sending things with the computer.

[FLtwinmom]

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/JONamesearch.asp

Try this link on June 4, 2008 his release conditions were modified "
The Court has received a Memorandum dated June 3, 2008 from defense counsel stating
that under the active GPS monitoring unit a landline is not required for electronic monitoring.
Accordingly,
IT IS HEREBY ORDERED granting Defendant’s oral motion to modify release
conditions.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Defendant is release to the supervision of Pretrial
Services Agency, including drug and alcohol monitoring, electronic monitoring by active GPS,
and curfew between the hours of 6:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m.
ISSUED: Release Order
FILED: Memorandum"

What does this mean??

[little726]

Thank you, FLtwinmom.

The way I see it, he could have been missing since June 3rd. The court put out a warrant for his arrest on June 24th, because he didn't show up for his hearing.

[KR2tonenow]

Thank you, FLtwinmom.

The way I see it, he could have been missing since June 3rd. The court put out a warrant for his arrest on June 24th, because he didn't show up for his hearing.

Bingo! He could have fled easily, even with his tracking device.

I recall it stated, way back when, that at this time OSBI was not interested in speculation/theories because they had enough theories of their own. FC, if this could be forwarded, I'd like to see OSBI's answers.

Thanks!

[frogjustfrog]

Hi
Maybe I'm just too worn out, but I dont see where you all are reading the info about Gore and stuff.

[GetSmart]

WOW!!!! He sure does look like the POI. I checked OCIS for a file on him, guess what? He was arrested on a traffic infraction back in 1989. It says he is from Gore, OK. He also drove a 1989 Ford. It did not say what color it was.


frogjustfrog Hi
Maybe I'm just too worn out, but I dont see where you all are reading the info about Gore and stuff.

This could be interesting. Regardless if he is the POI we still need to pray they catch him..very dangerous felon

[SeriouslySearching]

WOW!!!! He sure does look like the POI. I checked OCIS for a file on him, guess what? He was arrested on a traffic infraction back in 1989. It says he is from Gore, OK. He also drove a 1989 Ford. It did not say what color it was.http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/GetCaseInformation.asp?submitted=true&viewtype=caseGeneral&casemasterID=22360&db=Tulsa

If it could be determined exactly when he cut his monitoring device and fled...I think he does look enough like the sketch to be a possibility. If he was released on June 6th as mentioned in *Crimeshadow's blog, could it be that they overlooked his bracelet being taken off?

I do think it is worth Maricopa county checking with the OSBI in case there is DNA in both cases to compare and notes to compare on this man. Maybe contacting OSBI isn't welcomed, but Maricopa might like to be aware since it is their subject who is missing.

White Male
Born: 11/07/1961
Height: 6′ 0″
Weight: 175 lbs.
Brown Hair
Brown Eyes

If you have any information concerning this individual, please call the Phoenix Police Department Crime Stop 262-6151, Silent Witness at 480-WITNESS or Phoenix Police Detectives at 602-262-6141.

*http://crimeshadowsnews.com/main/

Here is a photo of a 1989 Ford truck. Note the silver stripe running down the side as it appears standard.: http://www.speedwayautomall.com/detail-1989-ford-f~150-2702076.html

[FlowerChild]

IT IS HEREBY ORDERED granting Defendant’s oral motion to modify release
conditions.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Defendant is released to the supervision of Pretrial
Services Agency, including drug and alcohol monitoring, electronic monitoring by active GPS,
and curfew between the hours of 6:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m.
ISSUED: Release Order

The original release and probation had a condition that he have a working phone in his residence. His attorney asked to have that amended because the GPS monitor does not require a phone line, it is battery operated and wireless (like a cell phone). That was approved on June 4th. He was not arrested, he was asking for a modification, which was approved and he was released BACK to the Probation/Parole Authorities with that modification. He also had a curfew - he had to be home from 6PM to 6AM daily. Any deviation from that has to have prior approval of the PO and Supervisor - and they know if the curfew is being followed by using the GPS tracking device - it sends an alert to LE if he is not home by 6PM or leaves home before 6AM. He was wearing a GPS TRACKING MONITOR - that means his every move can be tracked - his exact location is known 24/7/265 and if removed it, it sends an immediate alarm to LE. They know it has been cut off immediately - that's why the violation and warrant were issued the next day - they knew to the second when the device was cut off and he ran.

It isn't possible for this person to be in Oklahoma wearing the GPS Tracking device on his ankle - without LE knowing - heck, they know if the guy leaves his HOUSE at the wrong time - much less leaves the state. And they would also know if he removed it - that's how they knew he had "run" - the monitior sent them a signal that it had been cut off. And he has been wearing the device since he was released from prison in March 2007 - he is a child sex offender - lots of restrictions including where he can live and work and one violation (per the GPS) and it's back to prison. It's such a good system that many states are considering requiring ALL convicted Child Sex Offenders be required to wear a similar device all the time for life. No worries about registering or where they are living, working or hanging out - LE has the guy mapped for every step he takes every minute of every day.

So, --- here's what we know - the guy's photo does resemble the POI, and he was wearing a working GPS Tracking device on his ankle on June 8th. The GPS tracking device was not removed until June 22nd. If he was in Weleetka, OK on June 8th, Phoenix LE already knows it (and the OSBI too). He could have driven from Phoenix to Weleetka (or Gore) - but it takes at least 16 hours one way - he would have had to be away from home from early Sat the 7th until at least midnight on Monday June 9th - and that's if he drove straight thru to Weleetka, murdered the girls and drove straight back to Phoenix. Now if he did that, we have to ask was he alone? Does he own a white PU truck? Does it have OK tags? Does he have a friend or relative who would have loaned him their truck and NOT report that he had it, in OK, and that he resembles the POI? Did he steal OK Tags? Did he steal the truck in OK? If so, where is/was his vehicle? Where did he get the guns?

And if he was in OK on June 8th - why was he not arrested when he returned to Phoenix - he didn't run till June 22nd - 2 full weeks after the murder (and it making NATIONAL NEWS) and we know he was in Phoenix on the 22nd because he removed his GPS device there. Between June 8th and June 22nd Phoenix LE could have picked him up easily at any time - they did know where he was since they were tracking him 24/7. And if it was even possible that he was in OK on June 8th - then WHY is there not an APB and "Most Wanted" alert out on this guy BY NAME? No press release?

And finally - the killer or the POI was wearing "boots" - LE has the footprints - can you wear those type boots WITH a GPS Tracking Device on your ankle? The ones I have seen are not tiny and seem a bit bulky and painful for wearing boots - and they do fit rather tightly on the ankle - wearers report chafing, rawness, rubbing, blisters, swelling of the foot, ankle and leg and bruises - not to mention that certain clothing and footwear cannot be worn at all because they won't go over the device.

It's a good catch on the resemblance but at this point I am not seeing much else that points to this guy - not a better alibi on the planet than having a required LE issued GPS Tracker strapped to your ankle that proves you were home in Phoenix at 6PM on June 8th. We should keep looking though - and at ALL the photos of ex convicts - LE has most assuredly also been combing every mug-shot database in the US and asking authorities to track down and verify where every ex convict who resembles the sketch was on June 8th at 5PM. More sets of eyes can't hurt. And tips are tips, the OSBI is not going to reject anything that is reasonable. Giving them a list of possibles that are relatively easy to check out (and where they can quickly eliminate probably 99% without leaving their desk) would probably be welcomed.

When I have time, I am combing the internet for photos of random, ordinary men (not convicts or RSO's) who look like the sketch - billions of photos of people and maybe one of them is the POI. No reason not to look - I think he's out here somewhere - probably right under our collective noses.

My Opinion

[SeriouslySearching]

More on the body found in Webber Falls:

The positive identification of a dead body found Monday by a Muskogee fisherman could come today after dental records arrive, officials said.

The person was in his 20s.

A billfold with identification in it was on the body.

Smith said a medical examiner initially placed the time of death between a week and two weeks.

http://www.muskogeephoenix.com/local/local_story_190235219.html

Again, probably has nothing to do with the case, but I want to keep an eye on it anyway.

[Ruflossn]

IT IS HEREBY ORDERED granting Defendant’s oral motion to modify release
conditions.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Defendant is released to the supervision of Pretrial
Services Agency, including drug and alcohol monitoring, electronic monitoring by active GPS,
and curfew between the hours of 6:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m.
ISSUED: Release Order

The original release and probation had a condition that he have a working phone in his residence. His attorney asked to have that amended because the GPS monitor does not require a phone line, it is battery operated and wireless (like a cell phone). That was approved on June 4th. He was not arrested, he was asking for a modification, which was approved and he was released BACK to the Probation/Parole Authorities with that modification. He also had a curfew - he had to be home from 6PM to 6AM daily. Any deviation from that has to have prior approval of the PO and Supervisor - and they know if the curfew is being followed by using the GPS tracking device - it sends an alert to LE if he is not home by 6PM or leaves home before 6AM. He was wearing a GPS TRACKING MONITOR - that means his every move can be tracked - his exact location is known 24/7/265 and if removed it, it sends an immediate alarm to LE. They know it has been cut off immediately - that's why the violation and warrant were issued the next day - they knew to the second when the device was cut off and he ran.

It isn't possible for this person to be in Oklahoma wearing the GPS Tracking device on his ankle - without LE knowing - heck, they know if the guy leaves his HOUSE at the wrong time - much less leaves the state. And they would also know if he removed it - that's how they knew he had "run" - the monitior sent them a signal that it had been cut off. And he has been wearing the device since he was released from prison in March 2007 - he is a child sex offender - lots of restrictions including where he can live and work and one violation (per the GPS) and it's back to prison. It's such a good system that many states are considering requiring ALL convicted Child Sex Offenders be required to wear a similar device all the time for life. No worries about registering or where they are living, working or hanging out - LE has the guy mapped for every step he takes every minute of every day.

So, --- here's what we know - the guy's photo does resemble the POI, and he was wearing a working GPS Tracking device on his ankle on June 8th. The GPS tracking device was not removed until June 22nd. If he was in Weleetka, OK on June 8th, Phoenix LE already knows it (and the OSBI too). He could have driven from Phoenix to Weleetka (or Gore) - but it takes at least 16 hours one way - he would have had to be away from home from early Sat the 7th until at least midnight on Monday June 9th - and that's if he drove straight thru to Weleetka, murdered the girls and drove straight back to Phoenix. Now if he did that, we have to ask was he alone? Does he own a white PU truck? Does it have OK tags? Does he have a friend or relative who would have loaned him their truck and NOT report that he had it, in OK, and that he resembles the POI? Did he steal OK Tags? Did he steal the truck in OK? If so, where is/was his vehicle? Where did he get the guns?

And if he was in OK on June 8th - why was he not arrested when he returned to Phoenix - he didn't run till June 22nd - 2 full weeks after the murder (and it making NATIONAL NEWS) and we know he was in Phoenix on the 22nd because he removed his GPS device there. Between June 8th and June 22nd Phoenix LE could have picked him up easily at any time - they did know where he was since they were tracking him 24/7. And if it was even possible that he was in OK on June 8th - then WHY is there not an APB and "Most Wanted" alert out on this guy BY NAME? No press release?

And finally - the killer or the POI was wearing "boots" - LE has the footprints - can you wear those type boots WITH a GPS Tracking Device on your ankle? The ones I have seen are not tiny and seem a bit bulky and painful for wearing boots - and they do fit rather tightly on the ankle - wearers report chafing, rawness, rubbing, blisters, swelling of the foot, ankle and leg and bruises - not to mention that certain clothing and footwear cannot be worn at all because they won't go over the device.

It's a good catch on the resemblance but at this point I am not seeing much else that points to this guy - not a better alibi on the planet than having a required LE issued GPS Tracker strapped to your ankle that proves you were home in Phoenix at 6PM on June 8th. We should keep looking though - and at ALL the photos of ex convicts - LE has most assuredly also been combing every mug-shot database in the US and asking authorities to track down and verify where every ex convict who resembles the sketch was on June 8th at 5PM. More sets of eyes can't hurt. And tips are tips, the OSBI is not going to reject anything that is reasonable. Giving them a list of possibles that are relatively easy to check out (and where they can quickly eliminate probably 99% without leaving their desk) would probably be welcomed.

When I have time, I am combing the internet for photos of random, ordinary men (not convicts or RSO's) who look like the sketch - billions of photos of people and maybe one of them is the POI. No reason not to look - I think he's out here somewhere - probably right under our collective noses.

My Opinion

FLowerchild~
Thanks for this information. It helped me understand things in regards to this person. I always enjoy your posts.

[justathought]

I lurk. Seldom post. But last night, I thought of a reason that I hadn't seen posted. What if the POI was dumping a body and that's what the girls stumbled up on as they were walking. Rural areas are popular for body dumping... around here anyway. I don't see killing over a rolling meth lab.....also too popular in rural areas around here...lol one had a wreck on the interstate during rush hour a few weeks ago, what a mess.....just roll on. Drug dealers and drug users just deny and lie...so even if the girls were sure they saw a transaction and knew at least one person involved....the perps would deny and subsequently modify the operation....nothing could be proven based on what the girls thought they saw..... now, the body dumping, perhaps the perp thought they had the license plate number or took a picture with the phone...we don't know if there were two phones or what was on the cell phone recovered......if this was the case the perp wouldn't be from the area most likely....and probably didn't know the area was as well-traveled as it apparently was and certainly didn't expect anyone to walk up. He left, taking the body with him and dumped it elsewhere. One thing, I haven't seen....since it appears to be known the truck had an Oklahoma license...was it a regular license or the Native American license so popular in the state?

[fran]

FlowerChild:

I too would like to thank you for the explanation. I sincerely appreciate it.

There is one thing I'd like to add. While studying the Groene case, we learned that Joseph Duncan, while on parole, was granted permission to travel out of state to visit his dad. IIRC, he was allowed to do that more than once. Duncan was on parole out of the State of Washington and his dad lived in Southern California.

It wasn't until after his final capture, that LE started patching his travels and linked him to three additional murders. One was in Southern California, on the way from one of his dad's residences to another in Las Vegas. Although, the Southern California murder was after he'd absconded, the two in the State of Washington were while he was still on parole. He has confessed to these three additional murderers.

IMO, it's POSSIBLE, that this guy was granted permission to visit home, Gore, Ok, by authorities in Phoenix, Ariz. With his definit resemblance to the person Ok is seeking, and due to the proximity of his original home of Gore, Ok, I think LE should at the least, take a look at his locations etc, at the time of the murder of these two little girls. Better to eliminate him and move on, than to later learn he was the person they were seeking all along and they missed the connection right under their nose.

JMHO
fran

[yarbchris]

A closer look at the records indicates the man from Phoenix and the man from Gore are not the same man.
The Oklahoma man has a DOB of December 30, 1960 and was listed as living in Gore on October 14, 1999. His traffic offense occurred June 18, of 1989. His initial appearance was August 7 of 1989 and he was arraigned on August 9.
Since Fritz was incarcerated in AZ in 1999, he could not have been residing in Oklahoma. Also, Fritz DOB is November 7 of 1961.
The man in OK has middle initial "C," like the AZ man, however, a further search of area records indicates the "C" does not stand for Charles, but probably for Christopher. There is nothing in the records to indicate extradition, warrants, or a temporary release that would link these two individuals

Sorry to throw a wrench into that angle, but it doesn't seem to jive, at least IMO.

[Claycat]

Justathought, I have seen the theory before about someone dumping a body. However, I don't know if it was on this forum or not.

Don't lurk so much! Join us! The more, the merrier! :)

[Lyn1001]

OSBI didn't want our opinions? When were they asked, KR2?

In a previous article it was stated:


"We've had several people who have acted or told other people they did it," says Brown. "They want their 15 minutes of fame. Typically they want people to think that they are dangerous people."

Brown says calls also come in from people who genuinely want to help, but she says those calls can hinder the investigation as well.

"It's not a big deal, but that's counterproductive," says Brown. "We need to get information on the case, specifically on the case, not theories. We have enough theories on our own."


Here is the link http://www.ksbitv.com/news/20516384.html

[YellowDog]

I find it strange that the grandfather did not hear any of the shots, or did he, since it was less than a quarter of a mile from his house and there were more than just a couple of shots. If I had a child who had left the house less than 30 minutes earlier and I heard shots, I'd be very concerned. This is a mysterious case. If the girls had walked up on a meth lab, wouldn't there be residue around or some signs of burning? All of this happened in such a short time frame that it's amazing they haven't published more clues.

[YellowDog]

My first inclination would be they went to meet someone they had been conversing with on the computer, possibly even someone from their school. Maybe they had some information that someone didn't want them to divulge and they were meeting to discuss it with them. Kids can be very secretive.

[SeriouslySearching]

Justathought, welcome to WS! The dumping of a body is the reason I have been keeping tabs on bodies found in and around the area because I did mention this could be a possibility of what the girls could have seen to be killed over. Since no body has been found near the scene, it could mean they killed/dumped it elsewhere.

Yarbchris, well...it appears our sleuthing skills on this one had jumped out the window. We should have checked the dates etc. Thanks for pointing it out!

[Lyn1001]

To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure what I think happened at this point. I did want to mention something though. I know people have discussed previously the thought that maybe one or both of the girls were going to tell about being molested. Anyone who mentioned that seemed to be flamed because the families appear very loving and caring. The thing I wanted to bring up was that if there was molestation, it doesn't mean it was by family! It could have been by any number of people who aren't related. Just a thought to bring up another angle in a way that may not get flamed.

[Lyn1001]

Justathought, welcome to WS! The dumping of a body is the reason I have been keeping tabs on bodies found in and around the area because I did mention this could be a possibility of what the girls could have seen to be killed over. Since no body has been found near the scene, it could mean they killed/dumped it elsewhere.

Yarbchris, well...it appears our sleuthing skills on this one had jumped out the window. We should have checked the dates etc. Thanks for pointing it out!

I appreciate you checking on bodies found in the area because there is always the possibility that if more than one person was involved, one of those people might have ended up dead. Especially if the POI wasn't the only one involved!

[SeriouslySearching]

I find it strange that the grandfather did not hear any of the shots, or did he, since it was less than a quarter of a mile from his house and there were more than just a couple of shots. If I had a child who had left the house less than 30 minutes earlier and I heard shots, I'd be very concerned. This is a mysterious case. If the girls had walked up on a meth lab, wouldn't there be residue around or some signs of burning? All of this happened in such a short time frame that it's amazing they haven't published more clues.It was extremely windy in the state that day and blowing away from the house where the grandfather was. OSBI spokewoman, Jessica Brown explained if you were inside, tv on, ac on, and other noises (ie. talking etc.), they probably would not have heard the shots.

[YellowDog]

Were the girls shot in the front or the back?

[YellowDog]

And were they walking toward the bridge or away from the bridge when they were shot?
Is that known?

[FLtwinmom]

FlowerChild- Thank you for your clear explaination, it helps a lot.

[fran]

A closer look at the records indicates the man from Phoenix and the man from Gore are not the same man.
The Oklahoma man has a DOB of December 30, 1960 and was listed as living in Gore on October 14, 1999. His traffic offense occurred June 18, of 1989. His initial appearance was August 7 of 1989 and he was arraigned on August 9.
Since Fritz was incarcerated in AZ in 1999, he could not have been residing in Oklahoma. Also, Fritz DOB is November 7 of 1961.
The man in OK has middle initial "C," like the AZ man, however, a further search of area records indicates the "C" does not stand for Charles, but probably for Christopher. There is nothing in the records to indicate extradition, warrants, or a temporary release that would link these two individuals

Sorry to throw a wrench into that angle, but it doesn't seem to jive, at least IMO.


Thank you for the information. I guess that settles it then.

fran

[SeriouslySearching]

To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure what I think happened at this point. I did want to mention something though. I know people have discussed previously the thought that maybe one or both of the girls were going to tell about being molested. Anyone who mentioned that seemed to be flamed because the families appear very loving and caring. The thing I wanted to bring up was that if there was molestation, it doesn't mean it was by family! It could have been by any number of people who aren't related. Just a thought to bring up another angle in a way that may not get flamed.I think you are right that we need to keep an open mind about that theory. As more and more things come out in the Brooke Bennett case, we can see that veil of secrecy can exist for years no matter how bad the abuses are. While it may or may not be possible of the family, it is something to consider in this case. The girls were both in the same age frame as the perps' choice for victims. Sexual abuse happens in 1-4 children.

A SO will take drastic measures to avoid jailtime. Could the perp have abused one or both of them at a different time and decided he needed to silence them? Yes and it would make this perp even harder to find unless he has a record already or someone names him.

I would like to know who the girls were around the last month before their deaths. Uncles, cousins, other men in general, etc. I can't recall who kept asking that question before. It is a good one.

[SeriouslySearching]

And were they walking toward the bridge or away from the bridge when they were shot?
Is that known?According to reports from the OSBI, they were assumed to be walking away from the bridge.

[Claycat]

And were they walking toward the bridge or away from the bridge when they were shot?
Is that known?

They had already been to the bridge and were on their way home.

Many of us believe they were shot from the front, but, honestly, I don't remember if that information has been confirmed.

[Tom'sGirl]

They had already been to the bridge and were on their way home.

Many of us believe they were shot from the front, but, honestly, I don't remember if that information has been confirmed.
Wasn't it stated shot in the chest and head?

[Claycat]

Wasn't it stated shot in the chest and head?

That's right, Tom's Girl! Doh!

[justathought]

Thanks for the feedback and checking the "bodies" that turnup in a radius..
Question still. I believe we know there was a license plate on the truck..Oklahoma. Do we? Do we know if it was the Native American style plate popular in Oklahoma (I think you have to be descended from a tribe to get one) or just the regular plate. We see them sometimes around here and I noticed the prelavency last year when in Oklahoma. Now that I'm thinking about it, though, I'm not sure they were on trucks..........maybe someone from Oklahoma knows.

[GetSmart]

Well with this new Ramsey news & the statement made in regards to new ways to test DNA called "touch DNA / Testing) maybe there is hope after all

[YellowDog]

Has it ever come out whether the bodies were lying face up or face down in the ditch?
It seems to me, if they were walking back toward the house and shot from the front that they would have fallen backwards from the blow of the shots and would have seen their shooters. If shot from the back, they probably would have fallen face down into the ground from the blow and might never have seen anyone.

[YellowDog]

Also, has it ever been published how far the shooters were from them when they were shot? This might be a clue as to whether they knew the shooters or not and felt safe enough to be close to them on the road.

[Claycat]

Has it ever come out whether the bodies were lying face up or face down in the ditch?
It seems to me, if they were walking back toward the house and shot from the front that they would have fallen backwards from the blow of the shots and would have seen their shooters. If shot from the back, they probably would have fallen face down into the ground from the blow and might never have seen anyone.

It's an odd thing that, often when people are shot from the front, they pitch forward. The girls were found face down.

[Claycat]

Yellow Dog, I don't think they have ever said how close the shooters were to the girls.

[FlowerChild]

They had already been to the bridge and were on their way home.

Many of us believe they were shot from the front, but, honestly, I don't remember if that information has been confirmed.
OSBI/LE said chest and head. The ME said FACE and CHEST.

As to where the girls were, one witness saw them "minutes" before they were shot and they were walking toward Taylor's house from the direction of the bridge. Nobody has come forward that saw them AT/ON them bridge but footprints etc lead LE to conclude they did make it to the bridge and were on their way back home when seen by the witness.

The crime scene is only 300 yards from Taylor's driveway these girls died with sight of "home". Taylor was left lying almost in the road. Depending on how far the brush along the road hung over the ditch, Taylor could very well have been visible from her driveway. Taylor was a few feet closer to the house than Skyla was - that could mean she was walking ahead of Skyla or approached the killer while Skyla hung back a few feet. Skyla was about 3-5' further off the road and about 5' to one side of Taylor on the side toward the bridge - both of them fell with their heads toward the road. The casings or footprint I saw marked by CSI in the video were lying just a few feet out into the road - there is no doubt in my mind that the Killer(s) looked Skyla and Taylor in the eyes/face and shot them at very close range - quickly. Neither of them even had time to run, or turn away.

If a teenager did this then he's a sociopath - this was ugly - bloody, noisy, and right in the killer(s) face. The Killer(s) would literally have heard Taylor and Skyla's last breath and watched them die, up close and personal. And this was within sight of Taylor's HOUSE and the road was fairly busy - but this POS didn't miss a beat or hesitate. It takes a sick, cold monster to kill two angels this way and normal teenagers from the "area" - nervous, not hardened to the reality of a person dying violently in front of them would probably not have had the presence of mind to get away after - or keep their mouths shut for more than a month.This wasn't like a Video Game or TV, this was real - with real blood and real sounds and real death - can't pause or mute reality if it gets too intense.

My Opinion

[Claycat]

Yes, Flower Child, I also believe they shot the girls up close and personal. :(

[YellowDog]

It's an odd thing that, often when people are shot from the front, they pitch forward. The girls were found face down.

That's interesting Claycat. I would think, if shot in the chest, they might lunge forward but, if shot directly in the head, it seems like it would throw them backwards. I still think it's strange that the grandfather didn't hear anything. I could understand not hearing one shot, but a series of shots would be hard to miss. Maybe they had silencers on the guns but I doubt it.

[Claycat]

That's interesting Claycat. I would think, if shot in the chest, they might lunge forward but, if shot directly in the head, it seems like it would throw them backwards. I still think it's strange that the grandfather didn't hear anything. I could understand not hearing one shot, but a series of shots would be hard to miss. Maybe they had silencers on the guns but I doubt it.

YellowDog, I believe that they were sprayed with a semi-automatic weapon while they were standing. I think the shooter that shot them in the head got out of the vehicle and shot them in the head after they had already fallen. It was a kill shot to finish the job.

[Ruflossn]

Hi Everyone! Hi Claycat!

I do not think someone was disposing of a body. I can not imagine someone doing that on a Sunday afternoon. Maybe, I am thinking to rational like a "normal' person but, dumping a body on a semi-busy road on a Sunday afternoon makes no since to me. JMO.

Claycat~
I wondered if you had any more feelings or ideas about this? Especially a possible motive? I am still stumped.

[Claycat]

Hi Everyone! Hi Claycat!

Claycat~
I wondered if you had any more feelings or ideas about this? Especially a possible motive? I am still stumped.

Hi Ruflossn!

Motive seems to be the thing that escapes me the most. My original feeling was that it was payback of some sort, but I'm not sure.

[oceanblueeyes]

I think you are right that we need to keep an open mind about that theory. As more and more things come out in the Brooke Bennett case, we can see that veil of secrecy can exist for years no matter how bad the abuses are. While it may or may not be possible of the family, it is something to consider in this case. The girls were both in the same age frame as the perps' choice for victims. Sexual abuse happens in 1-4 children.

A SO will take drastic measures to avoid jailtime. Could the perp have abused one or both of them at a different time and decided he needed to silence them? Yes and it would make this perp even harder to find unless he has a record already or someone names him.

I would like to know who the girls were around the last month before their deaths. Uncles, cousins, other men in general, etc. I can't recall who kept asking that question before. It is a good one.

I suppose you are right but I just believe anyone that was close around the girls before this happened would be the first ones that OSBI would rule out or rule in. They may not have had to go that far if they suspected prior molestation though because the ME could readily ascertain if either girl even ever had sex or if the ME was of the opinion that there was prior molestation involved when they did the autopsy almost a month ago. On that they would not have to wait for results but would know when the ME did the visual examinations.

With it being now a month I just don't think it is the motive in this case. More and more I see these murders as totally senseless and the motive will be equally senseless, as senseless as the day I first heard about them and I think that is why OSBI is taking longer to solve the case due to the very good possibility imo that there is no link between the killer and the children.

imoo

[SeriouslySearching]

It wouldn't have to be someone who knew the family to have abused Taylor. Her treks to the bridge could have involved someone else at another time and she was afraid to tell anyone under threats. Just saying it is possible not neccessarily what happened.

[SeriouslySearching]

Hi Everyone! Hi Claycat!

I do not think someone was disposing of a body. I can not imagine someone doing that on a Sunday afternoon. Maybe, I am thinking to rational like a "normal' person but, dumping a body on a semi-busy road on a Sunday afternoon makes no since to me. JMO. Here you go...this happened today in broad daylight near noon in the city with people around:

Tulsa police are searching for suspects after two men were shot to death on 41st Street North between Columbia and Lewis. Officers were alerted to the shootings at approximately 12:15 p.m. on Wednesday.

When they arrived at the scene, police say they found 18-year-old Tajuan Davis and 18-year-old Teontae Ray dead inside a brown Chevy Impala.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8648144

So it would not at all surprise me that the perp/perps could be trying to kill someone on a backroad on a Sunday afternoon. Some do not care where they are or who sees them, obviously.

[FlowerChild]

Here you go...this happened today in broad daylight near noon in the city with people around:

Tulsa police are searching for suspects after two men were shot to death on 41st Street North between Columbia and Lewis. Officers were alerted to the shootings at approximately 12:15 p.m. on Wednesday.

When they arrived at the scene, police say they found 18-year-old Tajuan Davis and 18-year-old Teontae Ray dead inside a brown Chevy Impala.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8648144

So it would not at all surprise me that the perp/perps could be trying to kill someone on a backroad on a Sunday afternoon. Some do not care where they are or who sees them, obviously.
Being from Tulsa I can tell you from the location and the age of the victims that this was probably a gang or drug deal related murder - or perhaps even a "drive-by" of sorts. Tulsa is a city - with all the same problems of any city and there are murders on the street in broad daylight (just like in Dallas and Oklahoma City and St Louis). Weleetka is NOT like a city in that respect - I think Okfuskee county has probably 2 murders a YEAR, if that.

And as to dumping bodies - there are plenty of places in Okfuskee County where a body could be dumped and never found - or at least be hidden for YEARS. Roads where there isn't a house for MILES and maybe one car goes by a day - and it's easy to get off the road into a wooded area. Plus anyone dumping a body on County Line Road in THAT location would have seen and/or heard the girls (with a yappy little dog) approaching for 1/4 mile and 20 minutes - its flat all the way from the bridge to Taylor's house - plus we know at least 6 people passed the POI in a 20 minute period so kinda hard to dump a body unseen there. It could be he was - but I just don't think the POI was dumping a body

My Opinion

[GetSmart]

One thing, I haven't seen....since it appears to be known the truck had an Oklahoma license...was it a regular license or the Native American license so popular in the state?

Did Justathought ever get an answer to her ?? To be honest I have never thought about that..we were all wondering why they didn't notice the #. Surely that would cut some of the possible vehicles down. But I know it still wouldn't put a dent in the bucket.

[Snowlover77]

Hi Ruflossn!

Motive seems to be the thing that escapes me the most. My original feeling was that it was payback of some sort, but I'm not sure.
Ive been thinking more about motive and what I have come up with is that perhaps this was a hired killer...to silence these girls about something they had discovered recently...the shots to the head is what is leading me to think maybe this was a kill for cash murder. I still am inclined to think that these two gilrs had learned soemthing or sen something they shouldn't have and someone's reputation was at stake and they couldn't risk it so he hired someone to kill them.

[Ruflossn]

Did Justathought ever get an answer to her ?? To be honest I have never thought about that..we were all wondering why they didn't notice the #. Surely that would cut some of the possible vehicles down. But I know it still wouldn't put a dent in the bucket.

IMO~

I am assuming the tag was a "regular" tag. Not one that is identified as an "Indian tag" It seems if it were the Indian model, it would have been mentioned as such. They are easily identifiable and that would have been an easy thing to i.d.

Also, the tag could have been stolen and placed on that vehicle.
So many questions.....................

[Ruflossn]

Ive been thinking more about motive and what I have come up with is that perhaps this was a hired killer...to silence these girls about something they had discovered recently...the shots to the head is what is leading me to think maybe this was a kill for cash murder. I still am inclined to think that these two gilrs had learned soemthing or sen something they shouldn't have and someone's reputation was at stake and they couldn't risk it so he hired someone to kill them.

Snowlover~

I think that when this is solved, not IF but WHEN :)
it is going to be related to an abduction gone awry. I have no real reason for this other than somethings a criminal profiler discussed on another forum. The whole murder for hire seems so Hollywood. But, stranger things have happened. I hope that there is resolution to this case soon.

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=ddb1b5c5-7321-4363-b24b-258807374579

About Weleetka Murders
Last Update: 10:02 pm

Print Story | Email Story

It’s been one month since the shocking discovery of the two little girls killed just down the road from their homes.


Now the community of Weleetka is struggling to come to terms with what happened and why no one has been arrested.


For the families of Skyla Whitaker and Taylor Paschal-Placker not knowing who killed their little girls is upsetting and frustrating.


For the first time, Skyla’s Father breaks his silence to Fox 23’s Abbie Alford about the loss of his daughter and her friend Taylor.
As Skyla’s father William Whitaker walks down the dirt road, the same dirt road where Skyla and Taylor were killed, he feels something land on him,


"See it, it landed on me, it landed right here on my….” A butterfly lands on his heart. William says Skyla loved butterflies.

[Ruflossn]

Ocean~
Thanks for posting this.

[GetSmart]

OMG I could not get through reading this without crying.. How heartbreaking.. I got chill bumps about the butterfly.

[Ruflossn]

OSBI says they have received more than 450 leads. Here’s what investigators are releasing: They have given polygraph tests, submitted DNA and have conducted interviews.

This statement gives me confidence that the DNA has been submitted but, not yet returned to the authorities. Hopefully, when it is returned we will have a positive identification and the murderer will be found.

[Ruflossn]

OMG I could not get through reading this without crying.. How heartbreaking.. I got chill bumps about the butterfly.

The butterfly got to me also.

[SeriouslySearching]

Being from Tulsa I can tell you from the location and the age of the victims that this was probably a gang or drug deal related murder - or perhaps even a "drive-by" of sorts. Tulsa is a city - with all the same problems of any city and there are murders on the street in broad daylight (just like in Dallas and Oklahoma City and St Louis). Weleetka is NOT like a city in that respect - I think Okfuskee county has probably 2 murders a YEAR, if that.

And as to dumping bodies - there are plenty of places in Okfuskee County where a body could be dumped and never found - or at least be hidden for YEARS. Roads where there isn't a house for MILES and maybe one car goes by a day - and it's easy to get off the road into a wooded area. Plus anyone dumping a body on County Line Road in THAT location would have seen and/or heard the girls (with a yappy little dog) approaching for 1/4 mile and 20 minutes - its flat all the way from the bridge to Taylor's house - plus we know at least 6 people passed the POI in a 20 minute period so kinda hard to dump a body unseen there. It could be he was - but I just don't think the POI was dumping a body

My OpinionMy point is that DRUG DEALERS AND GANGBANGERS DO NOT CARE if it is daytime, the city, the outskirts, the country road, or wherever they happen to be if they decide to shoot someone in the head! (I am well aware that it is probably a gang related shooting, btw.)

Obviously, the perp/perps did not care at all about leaving the bodies right there for anyone to see. This means they would not have cared about hiding another body either. They may have chosen another location to wack someone since killing the girls made them "hot" for that particular moment tho. This is why I will continue to look for other murder victims in the area who were brutally murdered with all the hallmarks of this crime. These people did not think twice about killing these little girls with cars being on the road in broad daylight 300 yards from her home and they obviously did not worry about getting caught by leaving a pile of shell casings behind or leaving witnesses to talk. He/They are ruthless killer/killers. This is not some kid playing a game.

If you are from Tulsa, you should be far more aware of what is really going on here. People from smaller communities count on the dealers from Tulsa, OKC, etc. to supply them and visa versa. They work together to bring drugs in from other areas such as Mexico. The people who do know these backroads are probably involved in some way. There is so much meth in the small communities of OK right now that crime has begun in places immune in the past. That life is over. Welcome to the real world in small town America.

[SeriouslySearching]

It's an odd thing that, often when people are shot from the front, they pitch forward. The girls were found face down.Could you point me to where this statement was made from LE or the OSBI? I am not saying it isn't true, but I don't recall reading it either. I would like to clarify it. Thanks!

[SeriouslySearching]

Meth Lab Found By Child's Bed

Five people are in the Creek County jail in connection with the purchase of pseudoephedrine.

Creek County Sheriff's Office investigator Michael O'Keefe says deputies with help from Sapulpa Police, arrested the five Tuesday at a home in the 12000 block of West Shaw Drive.

O'Keefe says a search of the home turned up a fully operational clandestine methamphetamine lab inside a child's bedroom.

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=8648610&nav=menu682_2

Meth Labs On The Rise

Posted: July 9, 2008 05:14 PM CDT

Meth labs are making a resurgence in Green Country. Officers say the number of meth labs drastically decreased after Oklahoma passed a law in 2004 that put pseudoephedrine products behind pharmacy counters and required customers to show identification to purchase them.

Creek County deputies and Sapulpa police arrested five people after deputies watched some of them take turns buying pseudoephedrine products twice in one day, so the pills could be used to make meth.

Deputies followed them to a lab inside a house near an elementary school. They say the chemicals were kept in the children's room, next to a child's bed and baby crib.

"We've stopped vehicles with bags of ephedrine in there from Walgreens, Wal-Mart, Med-X, May's, whatever it may be," said Tulsa County Sheriff Cpl. Shane Rhames.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8650136

[Claycat]

Could you point me to where this statement was made from LE or the OSBI? I am not saying it isn't true, but I don't recall reading it either. I would like to clarify it. Thanks!

Oh my goodness! SS, I hope I can find it and didn't dream it. I thought I read, or heard on a video, that they were found face down, one in the road and one in the bar ditch.

:confused:

[ArizonaGiGi]

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=ddb1b5c5-7321-4363-b24b-258807374579

[DeltaDawn]

Oh I feel so sorry for the families of Skyla and Taylor.

[christine2448]

Oh my goodness! SS, I hope I can find it and didn't dream it. I thought I read, or heard on a video, that they were found face down, one in the road and one in the bar ditch.

:confused:

I believe I also recall reading they were found face down, that is the image that remains for me, I musta read it somewhere. I will look also.

[christine2448]

On June 8, Taylor and Skyla were found lying face down in a ditch on the west side of the road. (http://newsok.com/help-with-case-comes-across-boundary-lines/article/3260415/?tm=1214085708)

[SeriouslySearching]

The quote didn't come from Okmulgee County Sheriff Eddy Rice tho. So can we be absolutely sure that they were found this way? (I did see a video where someone mentioned face down from LE) The reason I ask is because if the girls were shot exclusively in the front...finding them face down would have to mean, imo, that the perp did the body shots first without a doubt. So how do you render the kill shot from that angle? Makes no sense. If they are face down, under the chin towards the top of the head isn't possible without rolling them over. If they did the kill shot first, the other shots aren't possible unless they were rolled over after all the shots were fired. Why did the perp move the bodies?

On June 8, Taylor and Skyla were found lying face down in a ditch on the west side of the road. It became Choate's crime scene, but because the nearest cell phone tower was to the east, it was Rice's office that got the emergency call that sent his deputies scrambling.

http://newsok.com/help-with-case-comes-across-boundary-lines/article/3260415/?tm=1214085708

[little726]

Does anyone think they will release the phone call that Taylor's G-dad made to report the shotings?

[christine2448]

Does anyone think they will release the phone call that Taylor's G-dad made to report the shotings?

We can't even get them to give us a time. They say, at this point, the call will NOT be released.

[YellowDog]

What if they had something on one of their school mates that was either embarassing or could get them in trouble witht the school, their families or the police and they were holding it over them? Picture a scenario where they had been going back and forth with them on the computer or via cell phone and had finally decided to have a meeting at the bridge. They refused to back down and their school mates had already decided to do them in if they wouldn't wipe the slate clean. The brutality of this murder makes me think it was done by someone very angry who knew them. I think something drew them to the bridge that day because one of the girls was going to be picked up by her mother shortly and they must have known this.

[SeriouslySearching]

I just can't buy into the theory that kids did this. Also, if there were internet or cell communications, LE would have this wrapped up quickly.

[EnvoyDriver61]

The quote didn't come from Okmulgee County Sheriff Eddy Rice tho. So can we be absolutely sure that they were found this way? (I did see a video where someone mentioned face down from LE) The reason I ask is because if the girls were shot exclusively in the front...finding them face down would have to mean, imo, that the perp did the body shots first without a doubt. So how do you render the kill shot from that angle? Makes no sense. If they are face down, under the chin towards the top of the head isn't possible without rolling them over. If they did the kill shot first, the other shots aren't possible unless they were rolled over after all the shots were fired. Why did the perp move the bodies?

This is interesting and something I hadn't caught before either. It does make the chin-top-of-head shot difficult. It could explain the DNA traces though as someone would have to handle both girls.

However, didn't we conclude that we only heard about the chin shot from Skyla's grandmother in that first TV interview and maybe she wasn't trained to see what it really was?

I think the perp(s) were going to carry the bodies off, but got scared. I think one of the reasons the truck's manufacturer couldn't be identified is becase the gate was down on the truck, thus rendering the chevy or ford logo not accessible.

[YellowDog]

I just can't buy into the theory that kids did this. Also, if there were internet or cell communications, LE would have this wrapped up quickly.

Well, maybe I've lived in the big city too long because I can believe kids would do this. Kids see so much violence and death on TV, video games and in the movies these days that some of them become insensitive and numb to reality.

Maybe LE knows who did this and is still looking for the weapons to wrap this up. We don't really know how much they know.

[Claycat]

The quote didn't come from Okmulgee County Sheriff Eddy Rice tho. So can we be absolutely sure that they were found this way? (I did see a video where someone mentioned face down from LE) The reason I ask is because if the girls were shot exclusively in the front...finding them face down would have to mean, imo, that the perp did the body shots first without a doubt. So how do you render the kill shot from that angle? Makes no sense. If they are face down, under the chin towards the top of the head isn't possible without rolling them over. If they did the kill shot first, the other shots aren't possible unless they were rolled over after all the shots were fired. Why did the perp move the bodies?

On June 8, Taylor and Skyla were found lying face down in a ditch on the west side of the road. It became Choate's crime scene, but because the nearest cell phone tower was to the east, it was Rice's office that got the emergency call that sent his deputies scrambling.

http://newsok.com/help-with-case-comes-across-boundary-lines/article/3260415/?tm=1214085708


I don't believe they were shot under the chin. I believe they were shot in the top of the head after they were down. One of the exit wounds might have been under the chin. Skyla's mother or grandmother said Skyla had been hit under the chin, but it might have been the exit wound.

Thanks, Christine, for finding that! I was having trouble locating it.

:)

[SeriouslySearching]

This is interesting and something I hadn't caught before either. It does make the chin-top-of-head shot difficult. It could explain the DNA traces though as someone would have to handle both girls.

However, didn't we conclude that we only heard about the chin shot from Skyla's grandmother in that first TV interview and maybe she wasn't trained to see what it really was?

I think the perp(s) were going to carry the bodies off, but got scared. I think one of the reasons the truck's manufacturer couldn't be identified is becase the gate was down on the truck, thus rendering the chevy or ford logo not accessible.It would be impossible to get the tag id if the tailgate was down, imo.

Yes, we did get that description from the Grandmother (Skyla's), but it is very obvious if you have a small hole entering into the head under the chin area and blowing out the top of the head because of the damage. An amateur could easily see this and know. Also, she was not the only person who saw Skyla at that time. I am sure the mother, father and grandfather did as well. If the story was any different, one of them would have said so to correct her. I believe her because it would have been openly discussed between the ones who were there and did see at least Skyla that day before she left the site.

[Claycat]

I just can't buy into the theory that kids did this. Also, if there were internet or cell communications, LE would have this wrapped up quickly.

Believe me, SS, kids could do this. I was on a trial of a 14 yo who stabbed a 13 yo old multiple times. We never did figure out a motive, but he did do it. It may have simply been rejection. I don't know.

Sad...

And, this was a number of years before the violent video games.

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't believe they were shot under the chin. I believe they were shot in the top of the head after they were down. One of the exit wounds might have been under the chin. Skyla's mother or grandmother said Skyla had been hit under the chin, but it might have been the exit wound.

Thanks, Christine, for finding that! I was having trouble locating it.

:)It is my understanding a bullet entrance is small and the exit wound would obviously be blown out, irregular, and covers a much larger area. (Not saying this is what it looked like on the girls...but what I understand in general terms about bullet wounds.)

[Claycat]

It is my understanding the bullet entrance is small and the exit wound is obviously blown out, irregular, and covers a much larger area.

I don't know if the mother would have known the difference, but I don't believe they ever clarified that. I'm not sure.

[YellowDog]

If shot in the back of the head, couldn't the skull bone have deflected it downward toward the chin before it exited?

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't know if the mother would have known the difference, but I don't believe they ever clarified that. I'm not sure.You are talking about country people here. They hunt, fish, and are aware of such things. Probably more than any city person.

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't know if the mother would have known the difference, but I don't believe they ever clarified that. I'm not sure.I bet the father and grandfather would know the difference.

[Motomom649]

This is interesting and something I hadn't caught before either. It does make the chin-top-of-head shot difficult. It could explain the DNA traces though as someone would have to handle both girls.

However, didn't we conclude that we only heard about the chin shot from Skyla's grandmother in that first TV interview and maybe she wasn't trained to see what it really was?

I think the perp(s) were going to carry the bodies off, but got scared. I think one of the reasons the truck's manufacturer couldn't be identified is becase the gate was down on the truck, thus rendering the chevy or ford logo not accessible.


Hi all.. New here. I've been following this case from the beginning though. I thought that it was the GM that mentioned the chin shot and was never confirmed by LE as far as I know. I know it's been getting discussed about how they were found. I thought it was on their backs. I'm just seeing now that it was face down through some of the links. Do we know for sure which is right?

I watched the link with Skyla's father, how heartbreaking. She's sending him butterflies now, he'll always have them little bit of peace when he sees them. My father sends butterflies too and it always calms me down a bit knowing he is still with me. It's just so sad, I cannot even begin to imagine how the family is handling this tremendous loss. Nobody deserves to suffer this way. This case is on my mind just about every single day since it happened. They cannot find the killer/s soon enough.

[Motomom649]

Believe me, SS, kids could do this. I was on a trial of a 14 yo who stabbed a 13 yo old multiple times. We never did figure out a motive, but he did do it. It may have simply been rejection. I don't know.

Sad...

And, this was a number of years before the violent video games.

I don't think kids did this. The main reason is kids talk. And if it was more than one, surely one of them would have ran their mouth by now. Of course since we aren't hearing much about this case it's always possible.

[EnvoyDriver61]

It would be impossible to get the tag id if the tailgate was down, imo.


You'd think so, but they only had to get the tag "look" i.e., notice it was OK state. I got this idea while driving and seeing a pickup truck (Ford incidentally) with it's tailgate down. I was still able to see the license tag.


Yes, we did get that description from the Grandmother (Skyla's), but it is very obvious if you have a small hole entering into the head under the chin area and blowing out the top of the head because of the damage. An amateur could easily see this and know. Also, she was not the only person who saw Skyla at that time. I am sure the mother, father and grandfather did as well. If the story was any different, one of them would have said so to correct her. I believe her because it would have been openly discussed between the ones who were there and did see at least Skyla that day before she left the site.

Skyla's grandmother isn't as much of a rural person as you'd think. Isn't she a veterinarian? She probably knows more about anatomy than the average OK rural resident. Additionally, the family was pretty much "silenced" by LE, imo, after Skyla's grandmother's interview. We didn't hear anything from them really until Peter spoke about a week ago and Skyla's father spoke just recently. Edit: I guess in my two posts I contradict myself. At first I say Skyla's GM isn't trained; now I'm saying she'd know and be more trained. I don't know what to think anymore.

If they were found face down, I'm more inclined to believe the less experienced killer just unloading their guns at the girls and getting a head shot from a distance in there. It seems like a long time to stick around after killing someone to have to move the bodies like that (roll them over, shoot them in the chin or head, and then roll them back).
__________________

[EnvoyDriver61]

In the Greta video where Rosser? (I think that's his name) was walking along the road does state that their heads were facing the road, but we never got from him that they were face up, face down, face sideways, etc.

Also, we have surmised that Skyla's grandmother saw her body after the paramedics were there as there was report of gauze being on her body, so she may have had benefit of seeing her after she had been cleaned up some if the paramedics had tried to do something with her. However, would they have, if it was apparent she was dead, wouldn't they be instructed to leave her be since it would be a crime scene?

Suddenly, her story has me questioning it somewhat.

[GetSmart]

So this is a different bust than the one on the last page ?

Remember the one I posted awhile back about a lab that blew up across from the Police Station
Midtown Tulsa Meth Lab Bust


http://koki.img.cdn.dayport.com/img/dp_thumbs/thumb_1215571491075_0p48412851829446274.jpg

Hours after a massive meth bust Tuesday, investigators with the Tulsa County Drug Task Force were still on the scene gathering evidence. They cleaned up potentially deadly chemicals. The bust happened at an apartment complex near 41st and Harvard.

Three men and three women were taken into custody. Court records show all have prior drug convictions except for Ashton Mallory.



Investigators tell Fox 23’s Abbie Alford they found a deadly mix of chemicals such as iodine, thousands and dollars worth of glass and a bagful of matches, which investigators say meth makers use to scratch off the red phosphorus to make meth.

Neighbor Christian Woods says, "It's crazy. Right here in my own neighborhood."


And right where Woods walks everyday, he says he smelled something odd here recently but never imagined it was meth.



"Every time I walk to the Shell store I can smell the chlorine, I smell it every time," says Woods.



Deputies smelled it too. One undercover deputy with the Tulsa County Drug Task Force says, "When the occupants opened the door and saw that it was a police officer they slammed the door in our face. We had a pretty dangerous situation.".................................................. ....

[FlowerChild]

I am from Tulsa - born and raised there - even went to college there.
I am aware of what goes on in rural OK, my 85 year old parents and almost ALL of my OK family live in rural Oklahoma. I also have family in rural MO and rural AZ and rural IN and rural NC. There is a problem, everywhere - however it's somewhat exaggerated by the media coverage. It's not like there is a meth lab on every rural road or that the gang-bangers and drug dealers are roaming the countryside like packs of wolves shooting random people and dumping dead bodies.

North Tulsa is hardly an example of how things are in rural Oklahoma - but even Tulsa is not exactly awash in murders - the murder rate is relatively low. Just because the meth problem has spread to rural areas does not mean that there are suddenly tons of murders - meth does not equal murder. Rise in crime (theft, robbery, burglary) yes, not necessarily a rise in murder, especially random, senseless, violent murder of kids.

Meth labs are everywhere - rural and urban - it's an epidemic. However, with necessary ingredients now somewhat restricted in the US, some of the mass production of meth has moved to Mexico - where ingredients are available and it's much less restricted by LE - oh, and plenty of isolated property available. Meth is a blight - it's horribly addictive, it's cheap and easy to produce - anyone can make it if they have the ingredients.

A lot of the people making meth these days are not doing it to SELL, but to supply themselves and their addict buddies - its not like every so called "meth lab" is a criminal enterprise churning out tons of the stuff or gang-related with heavily armed guards and visitors - often it's just Joe and Mary meth-head with their brother-in-law Tim tweaker and his buddy Brad buffoon. They don't have an arsenel, they're more likely to have Tonka trucks and Barbie dolls cuz they have a couple of kids - and they may be paranoid, but they aren't roaming the roads shooting kids - in fact, they already sold anything they had of value (including decent vehicles and guns) to feed their habit. They live in the country cause its CHEAP and no neighbors to bug them or report child neglect - and they get busted because they are stupid, stoned, paranoid and careless, not because they are shooting people.

I don't remember LE stating that they felt THIS murder was related to drugs (or meth labs) and they did search the entire area from ground and air to determine what (if anything) might have been going on - or what the girls might have stumbled onto to cause them to be gunned down on the road. NOTHING.

And whoever shot Taylor and Skyla did it from the road just a few feet away. This wasn't somebody shooting from a distance - some of the CASINGS WERE LYING IN THE ROAD less than 10 feet from Taylor - right there in plain sight a few feet away. That's why I say it was up close and personal - the killer knew exactly who he was shooting...two little girls.

My Opinion

[EnvoyDriver61]

If it is drug-related, I don't think the girls saw something they shouldn't have as much as picked it up. If the POI is involved, he's really close to the girls after the murder, either to cover it up or retrieve something.

However, that theory also means he shot a lot of shots with the girls holding something that he didn't mind shooting or was just that good of a shot. I suppose if they had money, it could fit in a small envelope. But, if they had drugs, wouldn't that be bigger and pose a problem from a target standpoint (i.e., you don't want to risk shooting them with it in their possession).

I wonder if LE did any type of swabbings from the girls' hands to see if they might have had any residue or anything.

[Trino]

If it is drug-related, I don't think the girls saw something they shouldn't have as much as picked it up. If the POI is involved, he's really close to the girls after the murder, either to cover it up or retrieve something.

However, that theory also means he shot a lot of shots with the girls holding something that he didn't mind shooting or was just that good of a shot. I suppose if they had money, it could fit in a small envelope. But, if they had drugs, wouldn't that be bigger and pose a problem from a target standpoint (i.e., you don't want to risk shooting them with it in their possession).

I wonder if LE did any type of swabbings from the girls' hands to see if they might have had any residue or anything.

He could have retrieved it first, using a gun as a threat. Once he had it in his possession, he could have shot the girls - no evidence.

[SeriouslySearching]

So this is a different bust than the one on the last page ?

Remember the one I posted awhile back about a lab that blew up across from the Police Station
Midtown Tulsa Meth Lab Bust


http://koki.img.cdn.dayport.com/img/dp_thumbs/thumb_1215571491075_0p48412851829446274.jpg

Hours after a massive meth bust Tuesday, investigators with the Tulsa County Drug Task Force were still on the scene gathering evidence. They cleaned up potentially deadly chemicals. The bust happened at an apartment complex near 41st and Harvard.

Three men and three women were taken into custody. Court records show all have prior drug convictions except for Ashton Mallory.



Investigators tell Fox 23’s Abbie Alford they found a deadly mix of chemicals such as iodine, thousands and dollars worth of glass and a bagful of matches, which investigators say meth makers use to scratch off the red phosphorus to make meth.

Neighbor Christian Woods says, "It's crazy. Right here in my own neighborhood."


And right where Woods walks everyday, he says he smelled something odd here recently but never imagined it was meth.



"Every time I walk to the Shell store I can smell the chlorine, I smell it every time," says Woods.



Deputies smelled it too. One undercover deputy with the Tulsa County Drug Task Force says, "When the occupants opened the door and saw that it was a police officer they slammed the door in our face. We had a pretty dangerous situation.".................................................. ....This meth lab wasn't the same one. This was busted the night before and the other one was in Sapulpa which is outside of Tulsa. At the Tulsa lab, the people had literally taken out walls between apartments to create one huge lab. The rest of the apts. were empty so I am thinking it could have been the owner of the small complex.

[SeriouslySearching]

I didn't hear anyone say anything to dispute the girls were shot from close range. Of course, they were. We know the shell casings were found basically a short distance from the girls' bodies.

When they are across the street from police stations, schools, and daycare centers...I would say that it qualifies as roughly being on "every" street corner. My mother at her age doesn't keep up with the druggies in her vicinity and may not know one if he knocked on her door.

I see them everyday in my business and they cut across every class here. Money or status no longer separate the addicts. People I grew up with became entangled with meth and lost everything they had. Being from rural OK and having a brother working for the Sheriff's Dept., I can tell you that it is affecting the murder rates in many counties that never saw a murder. It is affecting crime across the board. Not just burglaries and robberies. It has spilled over into the rural areas because LE has become more effective in the cities to combat the meth labs.

Let me see if I can find one of the latest caught with a meth lab and the arsenal they found! They showed it on the local news. I believe there were over 100 weapons they confiscated along with the ammo for them. I didn't see one Tonka truck or Barbie doll among them curiously enough!

[FlowerChild]

If it is drug-related, I don't think the girls saw something they shouldn't have as much as picked it up. If the POI is involved, he's really close to the girls after the murder, either to cover it up or retrieve something.

However, that theory also means he shot a lot of shots with the girls holding something that he didn't mind shooting or was just that good of a shot. I suppose if they had money, it could fit in a small envelope. But, if they had drugs, wouldn't that be bigger and pose a problem from a target standpoint (i.e., you don't want to risk shooting them with it in their possession).

I wonder if LE did any type of swabbings from the girls' hands to see if they might have had any residue or anything.
This would mean that the POI/Killer was watching the girls or the item from a hiding place or a distance away (to know they picked up whatever it was). If the killer was right there, he would have prevented the girls from picking up the item in the 1st place or killed them on the spot - so he had to be watching from somewhere else the girls couldn't see him. If he was sitting on the road where the girls were killed (and the item was there) the girls would have walked around his vehicle on the road, not gone toward the woods (where they were found). The item must have been located somewhere near the bridge and maybe the killer(s) were somewhere on the OTHER side of the bridge watching. That would explain the length of time it took him/them to reach the girls after they had started back home from the bridge.

The positioning of the bodies says to me that the killer drove up on the girls while they were walking and they moved to the ditch to be off the road while he passed. Having them pinned between the road (with his vehicle) and the woods he then shot them where they stopped beside the road. So, if they had something with them they had picked up - the killer(s) were watching from somewhere and then got in a vehicle to go retrieve it from the girls, trapping them along the road and killing them before they could reach home. If the killer(s) were already parked (where the girls were killed) the girls would have walked OUTSIDE the vehicle on the road to get around, not inside the vehicle (and into the brush/ditch). The killer(s) trapped them with the vehicle - and to do that, had to drive up on them as they were walking.

My Opinion

[EnvoyDriver61]

I agree, but for a different and simpler reason: the dog went BACK to the bridge and not home. Something was in it's way to go home to safety.

Edit: Addtionally, I think the girls made the bridge fairly close to 5:00 p.m., a perfect "set" time for a drop off, IMO.

[GetSmart]

Ok I went searching & I can not find the interview with the Uncle, I know it is under my nose.. anyway I think he is the one that mentioned Drugs.
LE keeps saying ..interrupted something links below

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/11/ok.girls.deaths/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/11/ok.girls.deaths/)
Rosser said investigators were considering a variety of motives as they searched for suspects, including the possibility of a "random thrill kill."
Because of the girls' ages, Rosser said investigators were looking at computer evidence and questioning young people in the area to develop possible leads.
Authorities said Tuesday that they believed the shooters were most likely from the area, considering the remote location where the bodies were found
http://newsok.com/investigation-no-suspects-officials-say/article/3255855/?tm=1213162539 (http://newsok.com/investigation-no-suspects-officials-say/article/3255855/?tm=1213162539)

Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said shell casings were found at the scene, as well as tire tracks and footprints. Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) would not release the caliber of gun thought to have been used in the shooting. The girls had walked along the dirt road to the bridge over Bad Creek."We're not sure whether it was somebody passing by,” Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. "It's an active area for people to throw things from the bridge or shoot things from the bridge.”
Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said the road, while remote, gets a fair amount of local traffic. The investigation so far has been focused on people who may live in the area or who would be familiar with the country roads. "It's not likely someone pulled off the interstate or the highway and just stopped there,” Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. "It's possible they went to meet somebody, or interrupted something, or maybe it was a personal attack.”
http://newsok.com/investigation-no-suspects-officials-say/article/3255855/?tm=1213162539 (http://newsok.com/investigation-no-suspects-officials-say/article/3255855/?tm=1213162539)
Investigators today were screening a computer that Taylor used at the Placker (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Peter+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON) home, which is common in this type of investigations, Brown (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Jessica+Brown&CATEGORY=PERSON) said.
Officials believe people connected to the slayings may be from the local area or are familiar with the rural county roads in Okfuskee County (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Okfuskee+County&CATEGORY=COUNTY).
"That's my gut feeling. It's an isolated area. We don't know if this is some kind of random thrill killing or an attempted abduction or a case of mistaken identity," OSBI Agent Ben Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said during the afternoon press conference. "It's possible they may have interrupted something at the bridge."
The bridge along County Line Road is a popular place for teens to gather and shoot guns, Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said.
Agents looked into a tip this morning that someone reported a pickup full of boys were in the area around the time of the killings.
"We contacted those individuals, and yes, they had a shotgun," Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. "They told us they were down there shooting, just like they would have been on any Sunday. There's nothing to indicate that they are suspects."
http://www.newsok.com/clues-sought-in-slaying-of-girls-in-weleetka/article/3255420/undefined?pg=1 (http://www.newsok.com/clues-sought-in-slaying-of-girls-in-weleetka/article/3255420/undefined?pg=1)
Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) said shell casings were found at the scene, as well as tire tracks and footprints. Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) would not release the caliber of the gun believed to have been used in the shooting. The girls had walked to a bridge along the dirt road, which is a popular gathering place for residents in the rural county, which is about 90 miles east of Oklahoma City.
"We're not sure whether it was somebody passing by," Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. "It's an active area for people to throw from the bridge, shoot from the bridge."
Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) said the road, while remote, the road gets a fair amount of local traffic. The investigation so far has been focused on people who may live in the area or be familiar with the country roads.
"It's not likely someone pulled of the interstate or the highway and just stopped there," Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. "It's possible they went to meet somebody, or interrupted something or maybe it was a personal attack."
---------
http://www.newsok.com/article/3255279 (http://www.newsok.com/article/3255279)
It's very difficult,” Choate said. "This was an 11- and a 13-year-old girl. What possible motive could there be? You have to wonder if they saw something they were not supposed to see. Were they just in the wrong place at the wrong time?”
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/11/ok.girls.deaths/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/11/ok.girls.deaths/)

Rosser said investigators were considering a variety of motives as they searched for suspects, including the possibility of a "random thrill kill."
Because of the girls' ages, Rosser said investigators were looking at computer evidence and questioning young people in the area to develop possible leads.
Authorities said Tuesday that they believed the shooters were most likely from the area, considering the remote location where the bodies were found
http://newsok.com/investigation-no-suspects-officials-say/article/3255855/?tm=1213162539 (http://newsok.com/investigation-no-suspects-officials-say/article/3255855/?tm=1213162539)

Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said shell casings were found at the scene, as well as tire tracks and footprints. Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) would not release the caliber of gun thought to have been used in the shooting. The girls had walked along the dirt road to the bridge over Bad Creek."We're not sure whether it was somebody passing by,” Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. "It's an active area for people to throw things from the bridge or shoot things from the bridge.”
Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said the road, while remote, gets a fair amount of local traffic. The investigation so far has been focused on people who may live in the area or who would be familiar with the country roads. "It's not likely someone pulled off the interstate or the highway and just stopped there,” Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. "It's possible they went to meet somebody, or interrupted something, or maybe it was a personal attack.”
http://newsok.com/investigation-no-suspects-officials-say/article/3255855/?tm=1213162539 (http://newsok.com/investigation-no-suspects-officials-say/article/3255855/?tm=1213162539)
Investigators today were screening a computer that Taylor used at the Placker (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Peter+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON) home, which is common in this type of investigations, Brown (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Jessica+Brown&CATEGORY=PERSON) said.
Officials believe people connected to the slayings may be from the local area or are familiar with the rural county roads in Okfuskee County (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Okfuskee+County&CATEGORY=COUNTY).
"That's my gut feeling. It's an isolated area. We don't know if this is some kind of random thrill killing or an attempted abduction or a case of mistaken identity," OSBI Agent Ben Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said during the afternoon press conference. "It's possible they may have interrupted something at the bridge."
The bridge along County Line Road is a popular place for teens to gather and shoot guns, Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said.
Agents looked into a tip this morning that someone reported a pickup full of boys were in the area around the time of the killings.
"We contacted those individuals, and yes, they had a shotgun," Rosser (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Rosser&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. "They told us they were down there shooting, just like they would have been on any Sunday. There's nothing to indicate that they are suspects."
http://www.newsok.com/clues-sought-in-slaying-of-girls-in-weleetka/article/3255420/undefined?pg=1 (http://www.newsok.com/clues-sought-in-slaying-of-girls-in-weleetka/article/3255420/undefined?pg=1)
Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) said shell casings were found at the scene, as well as tire tracks and footprints. Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) would not release the caliber of the gun believed to have been used in the shooting. The girls had walked to a bridge along the dirt road, which is a popular gathering place for residents in the rural county, which is about 90 miles east of Oklahoma City.
"We're not sure whether it was somebody passing by," Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. "It's an active area for people to throw from the bridge, shoot from the bridge."
Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) said the road, while remote, the road gets a fair amount of local traffic. The investigation so far has been focused on people who may live in the area or be familiar with the country roads.
"It's not likely someone pulled of the interstate or the highway and just stopped there," Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. "It's possible they went to meet somebody, or interrupted something or maybe it was a personal attack."
---------
http://www.newsok.com/article/3255279 (http://www.newsok.com/article/3255279)
It's very difficult,” Choate said. "This was an 11- and a 13-year-old girl. What possible motive could there be? You have to wonder if they saw something they were not supposed to see. Were they just in the wrong place at the wrong time?”
-*

[FlowerChild]

I agree, but for a different and simpler reason: the dog went BACK to the bridge and not home. Something was in it's way to go home to safety.

Edit: Addtionally, I think the girls made the bridge fairly close to 5:00 p.m., a perfect "set" time for a drop off, IMO.
Now the question is were they killed by whoever was dropping off the item OR the person(s) who were there to PICK UP the item?

Maybe it was the pick-up person - they pass the girls and go to the bridge - item is not there - they call the drop-off person who describes the item and where it was left - the pick-up person realizes (or thinks) the girls have his item (or at least MIGHT have it) and turns around to go to get the item from the girls. He gets to the girls and does a u-turn to trap/stop the girls progress. He gets out and asks them for the item, they give him the item OR they argue or don't cooperate or say they don't have the item. He shoots them. If he didn't get the item 1st, he checks the bodies for the item. Maybe he calls the drop off person again to verify what the item is wrapped in, looks like etc. The killer looks AGAIN for the item around the girls. Maybe he shoots them in the head, with another gun just to be sure they are dead. He leaves - maybe he has his item, maybe he doesn't - but now a 2nd person knows about the girls and who killed them. It becomes even MORE important for everyone to keep quiet.

Is the killer even still alive? Maybe the drop off person(s) got rid of the killer to stop him from talking and implicating him/them in a different crime? Maybe now only one person knows and he didn't do the killing and knows nothing about it except who did it - and he may not even know exactly who that person is/was. Even if he was arrested or questioned, he has an alibi and knows none of the details - he wasn't there. He might even pass a lie detector test - he didn't kill the girls - he might even have killed the killer -but LE isn't asking about THAT.

Just more food for thought

My Opinion

[Lola]

They must have known one or the other, wouldn't you think? Little girls could give a description -- even adults aren't necessarily reliable, but if they knew the person --

[FlowerChild]

They must have known one or the other, wouldn't you think? Little girls could give a description -- even adults aren't necessarily reliable, but if they knew the person --
Or maybe he was just ticked off because they didn't hand over his "whatever" when he asked/demanded. Maybe he thought they were lying to him and it made him mad. Maybe he shot one by accident while he was threatening them with the gun and thought he was in trouble for sure and might as well just kill both of them. These were tweenaged girls - they probably were taught NOT to be friendly to strangers and when he approached they yelled or got out a cell phone or made a rude gesture or something. I know girls this age can be pretty rude - they do feel rather invincible and can be a bit smart-azz too. They could see the HOUSE from where they were and they probably felt pretty safe - maybe safe enough to rudely blow off a stranger who asked them for his envelope or whatever he thought they had - especially if they had no clue what he was talking about.

My Opinion

[Mysterylover]

If it is drug-related, I don't think the girls saw something they shouldn't have as much as picked it up. If the POI is involved, he's really close to the girls after the murder, either to cover it up or retrieve something.

However, that theory also means he shot a lot of shots with the girls holding something that he didn't mind shooting or was just that good of a shot. I suppose if they had money, it could fit in a small envelope. But, if they had drugs, wouldn't that be bigger and pose a problem from a target standpoint (i.e., you don't want to risk shooting them with it in their possession).

I wonder if LE did any type of swabbings from the girls' hands to see if they might have had any residue or anything.

Don't forget the little dog...Taylor would have been carrying the Chihuahua, while walking home, IF everything was normal/OK...imo

1. Why didn't the dog get shot? If the shooter was so close to shoot her in the chest, the dog should have been shot, too.....unless she had already dropped the dog..for some reason.
2. Why didn't GP see the dog near the girls when he found them? Dogs know when something is wrong with their master and usually tries to stay with the master or barks to get help..
3. Why didn't the little dog see GP or GM or just run home, the dog knew the way?
4. WHY was the DOG waiting for Taylor at the bridge the next day? Why at the bridge and not at home near her playhouse?....jmi

[ArizonaGiGi]

[quote=EnvoyDriver61;2369501]I agree, but for a different and simpler reason: the dog went BACK to the bridge and not home. Something was in it's way to go home to safety.

Envoy, what/who are you agreeing with? Some of the posts are so long that I loose my train of thought while reading them. :crazy:
I do agree with you that the dog ran back to the bridge (to seek safety) because something was blocking it's route home. IMO a big dog may have gone thru the woods to get back home but a teeny chihuahua most likely would have huddled in fear under the bridge.

[Morag]

Don't forget the little dog...Taylor would have been carrying the Chihuahua, while walking home, IF everything was normal/OK...imo

1. Why didn't the dog get shot? If the shooter was so close to shoot her in the chest, the dog should have been shot, too.....unless she had already dropped the dog..for some reason.
2. Why didn't GP see the dog near the girls when he found them? Dogs know when something is wrong with their master and usually tries to stay with the master or barks to get help..
3. Why didn't the little dog see GP or GM or just run home, the dog knew the way?
4. WHY was the DOG waiting for Taylor at the bridge the next day? Why at the bridge and not at home near her playhouse?....jmi

Letsthink, I believe the dog to be an important clue, also. I think that the girls were separated from the dog before they died- maybe at the bridge. I think the dog was with the shooter(s). I think the dog was dropped off at the bridge after the shooter(s) left the crime scene. Although few dogs act like Lassie when a crisis arises, it's hard to imagine that that little ole dog left his bleeding mistress and trotted all the way back to the bridge. Surely he would have stayed there or at least gone home.

Btw, do we know if he was a standard chihuahua (tiny) or a teacup (extra tiny)? I've recently become acquainted with a teacup, and that dog couldn't walk to the other side of the room in less than five minutes, much less to a bridge a half mile away.

[GetSmart]

FlowerChild "The killer(s) trapped them with the vehicle - and to do that, had to drive up on them as they were walking."

That sounds logical.
I keep looking for crimes in the area & new people arrested..nothing that goes hand in hand. I am on the fence about alot of this. We know They were shooting to kill.

[frogjustfrog]

Hi ladies. I jsut wanted you to know that this is becomming emotionally difficult for me. I really AM a weenie, although I seem to be able to buck up against a few. lol I've just had to take a break a couple of days. May need a couple more. I dont know. BUt I didnt want anyone to worry about me.

[frogjustfrog]

This is what I am thinking also. In fact it is the only explanation that makes sense to me.

If this is true though, then what kind of a community is this?
This has been the problem for a long as I can remember. and that is about 50 years. I am just scared to talk about it where LE could read it. It really is THAT scary. Blotched stuff, covered up, and probably more.
I am not feeling good about talkling about it. That is why I havent been in topix

[Fairy1]

This has been the problem for a long as I can remember. and that is about 50 years. I am just scared to talk about it where LE could read it. It really is THAT scary. Blotched stuff, covered up, and probably more.
I am not feeling good about talkling about it. That is why I havent been in topix

:mad::mad::mad: Oh dear. I'm sorry I don't recall - but how close are you to where this occurred?

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't believe they are "covering up" anything here. While I do understand that things have happened in OK Law Enforcement over the years, things have come a long way since the "good ole' boy" days of politics and them being in bed with LE.

This case is being done by the book. OSBI is top notch and the best we have to offer. From the bombing in OKC to working the most mundane cases...I believe they have the expertise to solve this one eventually. I do wish they would be more forthcoming with information and use the public's help tho.

[christine2448]

I know this has been brought up....just thought I'd post link to article about the cross tampering that was in the Criminal Report Daily (http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/07/ominous-warning.html)today.

July 11, 2008

Ominous Warning Found at Skyla Whitaker and Taylor Paschal-Placker Crime Scene

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/images/2008/07/10/yearbook_photos_taylor_on_right.jpg (http://blogs.discovery.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/07/10/yearbook_photos_taylor_on_right.jpg)The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation [OSBI] is examining a cross that once stood at the roadside memorial for 11-year-old Skyla Jade Whitaker and 13-year-old Taylor Dawn Paschal-Placker, two young girls who were shot and killed in Weleetka last month.
According to an OSBI spokesperson, someone recently vandalized a cross that had Skyla's name on it and wrote, "You'll never catch me." Despite the warning, investigators have their doubts that the message was left by the person(s) responsible for the murders.
"I don't really think it is relevant to the case and more than likely its just some kids being kids," OSBI spokesperson Jessica Brown said in a telephone interview with Investigation Discovery.
Despite their reluctance to take the message seriously, investigators are conducting forensic tests on the cross to determine if it contains any evidence that could be relevant to the case. (bold mine)

[LifeSaver]

:bang:investigating the FreeLance employee in Henryetta.

[christine2448]

:bang:investigating the FreeLance employee in Henryetta.


Huh??

[SeriouslySearching]

:bang:investigating the FreeLance employee in Henryetta.Welcome to WS, LifeSaver! Would you care to elaborate? I have no idea what or who you are talking about. :confused:

[Claycat]

SS, I think the FreeLance is the name of the paper in Henryetta that published that article about the cross.

Do you believe one of the employees is involved, LifeSaver?

[SeriouslySearching]

Ah, so it could be the message on the cross was done for headlines for their paper? Interesting.

[SailorMoon]

I'm discouraged that no one has been caught for this heinous crime yet. 2 innocent young lives taken away in a second..and the killer seems to have just vaporized.

[Albert18]

... I know girls this age can be pretty rude - they do feel rather invincible and can be a bit smart-azz too...

You must know the girl who lives across the street from me!!! I will have to give her folks some boarding school brochures.

[FlowerChild]

You must know the girl who lives across the street from me!!! I will have to give her folks some boarding school brochures.
The kids 12-15 in my neighborhood are all good kids with educated, well-off parents but....

They all go thru a phase where they delight in telling everyone (including adults) to f-off and yell the f-word (and other really nasty things) so loud I can hear every word inside my house with the AC on and the windows closed and where they flip off drivers who have the audacity to drive down the street and interrupt their skateboarding, hanging out - whatever they are doing in the middle of the street.

When I see the girls I think of sweet Skyla and Taylor with their clubhouse and posters - being in that age between child and adult where one minute they seem 10 years old and the next 20. Where they play Barbie one minute and flip their hair and flirt with boys the next. They are so cute and yet so infuriatingly unpredictable. They want the boys to pay attention and then don't have a clue what to do when they DO pay attention, so they RUN like rabbits screaming like they are starring in a horror movie. And oh my the language they use - if a boy manages to get within 5 feet, sailors would blush at the language that pours out of these sweet little girls...with a rapid fire response from the boys, once they reach a safe distance - often accompanied with the rude "gang-cool" hand gestures. Ahh, as bad as it is, "turn around and they're 16" - once they hit 16 and get the car they are gone and the neighborhood seems too quiet for a while.

I still have to do a double take sometimes at the language - and their parents just shrug as if they can't stop their kids (who are right there) from telling their neighbor to f-off --- loudly, if he asks them to refrain from hitting tennis balls into his garage door.

NOTHING a girl (or boy) can do or say warrants A violent response, (like SHOOTING them) but I can see a scenario where a disturbed, wound-too tight, POS "adult" might get angry at a sweet looking young girl when she starts the high pitch screaming or using foul language or rude gestures.

My Opinion

[SeriouslySearching]

Woah! From everything I have heard about these two girls from their Principal to their friends...NO ONE has EVER said they were anything like that!! Just the opposite actually!

Do not put all girls in that age frame into one basket!! My DD certainly did no such thing either!! (I know this to be a fact.) Just because some people do not raise their children with the decorum to associate properly in public or private does not mean all children act like heathens due to their age group or peers!

You have nothing to base it on that either girl would go into "flirt mode" or "cussing, ranting, flipping off mode"!!

[GetSmart]

Here is just an idea that came to me.. Back to when we were throwing around the idea of a hit, wouldn't there be away to to inquire if a certain offender had been moved into solitary or even another location if the LE had any idea that indeed this was that type of killing. We have both sides that could be inquired about, i am sure a reporter can find this out but a layman could probably call also.

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't think they release that information, GS. It falls under disciplinary action of sorts which is inhouse and doesn't fall under the public right to know.

[YellowDog]

It could have been some boys out target shooting who decided to try to scare the girls and their aim was better than they thought. When they saw one down, they went into "panic mode" and shot the other one knowing she would turn them in. This crime happened in such a small time frame that I feel it was someone who lived nearby and probably someone they knew.

[SeriouslySearching]

You don't target shoot right upon a person or people and you wouldn't use such guns to do so either. When teens talk about target shooting...they are talking rifles and shotguns as a rule. LE cleared the known people at the bridge with weapons.

[YellowDog]

Do you think the killer or killers would have waited around on the bridge for LE to check their guns?

[YellowDog]

Has it ever been determined what kind of guns were used? Everything I've read said that it was two different guns of different calibers, but not what kind of guns.

[SeriouslySearching]

Do you think the killer or killers would have waited around on the bridge for LE to check their guns?No, but I think that people knew others at the bridge and they didn't have to go very far to check those guns out. If strangers were there...people would have pointed it out to LE.

[SeriouslySearching]

Has it ever been determined what kind of guns were used? Everything I've read said that it was two different guns of different calibers, but not what kind of guns.While they are not releasing the exact type of guns used, they indicate that they were hand guns not rifles or shotguns (IIRC). They discussed that one was a highprofile weapon while the other was a lesser weapon. I will have to go find that quote. Witnesses said that the sound was "unusual"...which I would assume meant that it wasn't a shotgun blast or a rifle firing sound which they were used to hearing in the area.

[YellowDog]

No, but I think that people knew others at the bridge and they didn't have to go very far to check those guns out. If strangers were there...people would have pointed it out to LE.

We're talking about a half a mile in distance between the bridge and the house. If the grandfather didn't hear the shots, maybe the people on the bridge didn't hear them either or just thought it was someone target shooting.
They may have seen nothing from the bridge. If they had witnessed the shooting, I believe LE might have this case solved by now.

[YellowDog]

While they are not releasing the exact type of guns used, they indicate that they were hand guns not rifles or shotguns (IIRC). They discussed that one was a highprofile weapon while the other was a lesser weapon. I will have to go find that quote. Witnesses said that the sound was "unusual"...which I would assume meant that it wasn't a shotgun blast or a rifle firing sound which they were used to hearing in the area.

Or maybe they had silencers on them which would muffle the sound.

[FlowerChild]

Woah! From everything I have heard about these two girls from their Principal to their friends...NO ONE has EVER said they were anything like that!! Just the opposite actually!

Do not put all girls in that age frame into one basket!! My DD certainly did no such thing either!! (I know this to be a fact.) Just because some people do not raise their children with the decorum to associate properly in public or private does not mean all children act like heathens due to their age group or peers!

You have nothing to base it on that either girl would go into "flirt mode" or "cussing, ranting, flipping off mode"!!
And you have nothing to prove they didn't
And I never said they DID, I just said THEY MIGHT HAVE started screaming or told someone to go flip off if some creep approached them and demanded something from them!
Innocent flirting (hair flipping etc) only applies to things they might do with boys that are their peers and I see girls Taylor's age doing it EVERY DAY - they also scream like banshees and go EWWWWW if a boy so much as gets close - its cute and sweet and harmless
Pure speculation based on my own observation - your mileage may vary - which I clearly said.

And aren't children taught to be wary of strangers and be loud and rude and uncooperative to strangers approaching them? Should kids then be quiet and polite if some strange person approaches and just do what he/she says??

My Opinion

[SeriouslySearching]

The people at the bridge should have heard them as the wind was blowing fiercely towards them. This was the reason the grandparents didn't hear the shots.

However, I believe it was neighbors down the road who said the heard the shots.

No, I don't think that anyone saw the actual shooting take place unless LE is protecting the witness by not releasing that information. Under the circumstances, it would make perfect sense for LE to do that tho. There is a cold blooded killer/killers still out there and would think nothing of taking out a witness or two...again.

[SeriouslySearching]

Or maybe they had silencers on them which would muffle the sound.Again, they have at least two witnesses who state they DID hear the shots being fired.

[GetSmart]

Christine2448 gave us this link
http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/07/ominous-warning.html

This is the bottom part of article...
In regard to the current status of the investigation, Brown said:
"We are still running leads, interviewing people, polygraphing people [and] doing everything humanly possible. We have had more than 450 leads since the beginning of the investigation and we are in the process of running those down. We have more than half of that finished; it just takes time so we are going to continue doing that until it takes us to the killers."
Since the beginning of the investigation, there has been speculation about whether the two girls had been sexually assaulted prior to their death. Brown said that the OSBI has information pertaining to that but was unable to release it.
According to Brown, the case is solvable; investigators just need the right leads to come in and the right people to come forward with information.
"There are a lot of people that are scared to talk to law enforcement down there so they have to start doing that," Brown said. "It is going to be solved by law enforcement but law enforcement is going to have to have help from the public. Because it was such a remote area, everyone knows each other in that area. A person who would drive on this particular road would have to know how to get there. You or I wouldn't be able to get there. I have been there once but I guarantee you I couldn't get there again. Someone knows something [and] it is a matter of them coming forward and then we can build our case."

[christine2448]

For newbies and oldies, chat is open

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67270

[Albert18]

...According to Brown, the case is solvable; investigators just need the right leads to come in and the right people to come forward with information....

100% of all cases would be solved if this always happened.

[LifeSaver]

The Kelough woman and her son heard the shots that were fired. Wind was blowing strongely that day, out of the south. Kelough was little over a mile NW

[sheza]

FlowerChild, I don't think you are to far off.

[LifeSaver]

Good Evening, I didn't realize these are all old posts from eariler in the day. I'm ready to call it a night myself.

[Tom'sGirl]

Good Evening, I didn't realize these are all old posts from eariler in the day. I'm ready to call it a night myself.
Would you happen to be another poster from Topix by any chance?

[SeriouslySearching]

Lifesaver!! Before you go to bed...could you explain what you meant in your first post about investigating the Freelance person?!

[TGIRecovered]

The kids 12-15 in my neighborhood are all good kids with educated, well-off parents but....

They all go thru a phase where they delight in telling everyone (including adults) to f-off and yell the f-word (and other really nasty things) so loud I can hear every word inside my house with the AC on and the windows closed and where they flip off drivers who have the audacity to drive down the street and interrupt their skateboarding, hanging out - whatever they are doing in the middle of the street.

When I see the girls I think of sweet Skyla and Taylor with their clubhouse and posters - being in that age between child and adult where one minute they seem 10 years old and the next 20. Where they play Barbie one minute and flip their hair and flirt with boys the next. They are so cute and yet so infuriatingly unpredictable. They want the boys to pay attention and then don't have a clue what to do when they DO pay attention, so they RUN like rabbits screaming like they are starring in a horror movie. And oh my the language they use - if a boy manages to get within 5 feet, sailors would blush at the language that pours out of these sweet little girls...with a rapid fire response from the boys, once they reach a safe distance - often accompanied with the rude "gang-cool" hand gestures. Ahh, as bad as it is, "turn around and they're 16" - once they hit 16 and get the car they are gone and the neighborhood seems too quiet for a while.

I still have to do a double take sometimes at the language - and their parents just shrug as if they can't stop their kids (who are right there) from telling their neighbor to f-off --- loudly, if he asks them to refrain from hitting tennis balls into his garage door.

NOTHING a girl (or boy) can do or say warrants A violent response, (like SHOOTING them) but I can see a scenario where a disturbed, wound-too tight, POS "adult" might get angry at a sweet looking young girl when she starts the high pitch screaming or using foul language or rude gestures.

My Opinion

Oh my goodness, Flower! If the children in my neighborhood acted like that, I'd move!

My girls are 11 and 13. They don't cuss and flirt and hang out in the street. They like boys of course, and giggle about them with their other little girl friends. They get after me for my language if I say the word "crap". They have been in the car with me when we've seen older kids loitering in the street, refusing to move for vehicles, and they've remarked at how rude those kids' behavior is.

I think my girls are pretty normal for their age. If someone approached them when they were alone on a country road ( which they wouldn't be) they would head the other way fast and probably be on the phone to me in a split second. Kids are quick on the draw with those phones!

Susan

[ArizonaGiGi]

FlowerChild, I don't think you are to far off.

Hi Sheza
Glad to see you over here :wave:

[oceanblueeyes]

Oh my goodness, Flower! If the children in my neighborhood acted like that, I'd move!

My girls are 11 and 13. They don't cuss and flirt and hang out in the street. They like boys of course, and giggle about them with their other little girl friends. They get after me for my language if I say the word "crap". They have been in the car with me when we've seen older kids loitering in the street, refusing to move for vehicles, and they've remarked at how rude those kids' behavior is.

I think my girls are pretty normal for their age. If someone approached them when they were alone on a country road ( which they wouldn't be) they would head the other way fast and probably be on the phone to me in a split second. Kids are quick on the draw with those phones!

Susan

I live where there are many young female teens in my neighborhood. I have never seen even one of them act crass and inappropriate. In fact the young teenage boys act the same. They always smile, wave, speak or stop to talk when they see any of the neighbors out.

I just don't see Skyla and Taylor as one of those bold and tough, vulgar talking girls. I think they were busy being the best of friends and were very happy well adjusted children who have been taught to have respect and manners.

imoo

[Fairy1]

I live where there are many young female teens in my neighborhood. I have never seen even one of them act crass and inappropriate. In fact the young teenage boys act the same. They always smile, wave, speak or stop to talk when they see any of the neighbors out.

I just don't see Skyla and Taylor as one of those bold and tough, vulgar talking girls. I think they were busy being the best of friends and were very happy well adjusted children who have been taught to have respect and manners.

imoo

ITA OBE! I have seen plenty of skeezy girls at my son's high school. But here in our "hood," no such thing. I don't think it's fair to generalize about teens in any way here. And I definitely do not want this thread to take a turn that will villianize these girls. They were 11 and 13 - IMO - anything they saw or did didn't warrant what happened to them.

[SeriouslySearching]

Oh my goodness, Flower! If the children in my neighborhood acted like that, I'd move!

My girls are 11 and 13. They don't cuss and flirt and hang out in the street. They like boys of course, and giggle about them with their other little girl friends. They get after me for my language if I say the word "crap". They have been in the car with me when we've seen older kids loitering in the street, refusing to move for vehicles, and they've remarked at how rude those kids' behavior is.

I think my girls are pretty normal for their age. If someone approached them when they were alone on a country road ( which they wouldn't be) they would head the other way fast and probably be on the phone to me in a split second. Kids are quick on the draw with those phones!

SusanWell, Thank Goodness...people experience children at appropriate ages still! I believe that these girls were among those children.

[FlowerChild]

Please read my post, I never said Taylor or Skyla was crass, rude, flirting or anything of the sort! I said that if some creep thought the girls took something of his and he approached them on the road and trapped them with his vehicle and got out and approached them they MIGHT have told him to f-off or screamed or pulled out their phone - which MAY have caused the POS to over-react and SHOOT THEM.

Taylor was a wonderful, loving, outgoing, smart, sweet child. I am also pretty sure, based on her family, that she was around some "adult language" at times. I think it is quite possible that IF they were confronted Taylor (the oldest and biggest of the two) might have stepped forward, pulled out her phone and been loud and assertive to try to get away or get help - or at least protect Skyla. Why is that a "bad" thing? Sweet and polite is wonderful in Sunday School, but not so much when a crazy man or a pervert confronts you and there is no adult nearby.

I live in a very very nice neighborhood, no crime, no drugs, one of the best schools in the US, income way above average. I don't use the language some of the kids use in front of MY parents, elders or authority figures to this day, but I do (and did at their age) use it with my peers - at least those I know won't be offended. The kids all begin to mature and grow up eventually - usually beginning at about age 16. I am not worried that they will "go bad" - even if I do find them annoying at say 14 - I miss them when they go off to college - by then, they are polite, well spoken, respectful and great young people. The f-words and smart aleck shenanigans don't seem to permanently mar them, any more than they did me, LOL.

Anyway, I was one of those 11 - and 13 year old girls once and I KNOW they can be smart aleck, full of themselves, and take crazy chances one minute and shy, sweet, and afraid of the dark the next. 11 and 13 year olds are always gonna be caught on the cusp of womanhood - with all the confusion and turmoil that entails. The best, most ideal, most perfect parents on the planet cannot stop an 11 year old from being 11, or a 13 year old from being 13. Nothing can stop biology or puberty - it's a force beyond our control, we just have to be the best parents we can be and guide our kids the best we can - which Taylor and Skyla's parents were doing. NOTHING they or the girls did caused the girls to be murdered...NOTHING!

My Opinion

[SeriouslySearching]

I guess that is where we differ, I cannot imagine those two resorting to such tactics. I think they did exactly as they were told when someone held a gun to them. I think also that it was a surprise. I do not have a doubt they were shot at close range, like OSBI intimated they were. I will believe the grandmother's recollection of the bullets since she saw them right after they happened. This would preclude anything we might come up with or what LE says. Everyone keeps trying to tell me that she didn't see what she saw...and I think that is rubbish. She saw what she reported to the media.

[Trino]

I guess that is where you differ, I cannot imagine those two resulting to such tactics. I think they did exactly as they were told when someone held a gun to them. I think also that it was a surprise. I do not have a doubt they were shot at close range, like OSBI intimated they were. I will believe the grandmother's recollection of the bullets since she saw them right after they happened. This would preclude anything we might come up with or what LE says. Everyone keeps trying to tell me that she didn't see what she saw...and I think that is rubbish. She saw what she reported to the media.

Good post. It seems the more posters speculate, the more rumors this case gets.

[SeriouslySearching]

Good post. It seems the more posters speculate, the more rumors this case gets.I think that the crime scene is that matter of fact...I do not think solving this case is.

[Trino]

I think that the crime scene is that matter of fact...I do not think solving this case is.

No motive, no witnesses to the killings, doubtful POI, and IMO the killer is not local. Statistics for 2004 indicate around 6,035 people (37%) got away with murder in the US. Maybe Oklahoma has a better rate.

[EnvoyDriver61]

There are a lot of people that are scared to talk to law enforcement down there so they have to start doing that," Brown said. "It is going to be solved by law enforcement but law enforcement is going to have to have help from the public. Because it was such a remote area, everyone knows each other in that area. A person who would drive on this particular road would have to know how to get there. You or I wouldn't be able to get there. I have been there once but I guarantee you I couldn't get there again.

This kind of concerns me. It appears they are placing all their eggs in the basket that it's a local person (kids probably as many Ws posters have surmised), and someone will just have to snitch on them. Yet, they say they've taken the search national (i.e., the not local kids angle). It seems they're just waiting for the right clue to come in.

Also, in this day and age of Google and Mapquest, etc. I'm convinced I, as well as several other posters, could drive right to that road and see where they were killed without asking anyone about it.

LE is so frustrating in this case with what they know, what they've released, and then still expecting someone from the public to release as yet unknown information. They sure aren't helping us help them.

[oceanblueeyes]

I guess that is where we differ, I cannot imagine those two resorting to such tactics. I think they did exactly as they were told when someone held a gun to them. I think also that it was a surprise. I do not have a doubt they were shot at close range, like OSBI intimated they were. I will believe the grandmother's recollection of the bullets since she saw them right after they happened. This would preclude anything we might come up with or what LE says. Everyone keeps trying to tell me that she didn't see what she saw...and I think that is rubbish. She saw what she reported to the media.

I do believe what the grandmother said she saw. I am just not sure of when she saw it.

I read a link that none of the families were allowed to see the victims until they were sent to the funeral home. Of course there, if the families wanted to see either body before it was prepared, the Director would bring them in and show them.

Now that excludes Pete Placker because he was the unfortunate family member who found Skyla and Taylor but I bet even he was not allowed by LE to come back close to the bodies while they lay at the crime scene.

imoo

[Mysterylover]

I'm discouraged that no one has been caught for this heinous crime yet.
2 innocent young lives taken away in a second..and the killer seems to have just vaporized.....

What I don't understand is the "overkill" and the fact the girls were found in less than 30 minutes, possibly a couple of minutes, after the murders.
How far could the killer have gotten, in less than 30 minutes?...imo

[Mysterylover]

You don't target shoot right upon a person or people and you wouldn't use such guns to do so either.

When teens talk about target shooting...they are talking rifles and shotguns as a rule.
LE cleared the known people at the bridge with weapons.

A .22 rifle takes the SAME bullets as a .22 pistol...
What IF LE did not find or see ALL the weapons the teens had that Sunday.

I have never "fell for the story" that 5 teens in a truck, go to the bridge just to shoot 1 shotgun, no, too many guns in families to have only 1 shotgun, between the 5...imo
A shotgun blast spreads-out and is for rabbits or ducks.

To shoot rocks, frogs, fish, targets etc., from off the top of the bridge, or from a distance, someone would be using a .22 rifle or .22 pistol, which travels up to a mile in a straight line...imo

[oceanblueeyes]

What I don't understand is the "overkill" and the fact the girls were found in less than 30 minutes, possibly a couple of minutes, after the murders.
How far could the killer have gotten, in less than 30 minutes?...imo

Unfortunately with the killers we have today one cannot say with any certainty that if the murder was an overkill it was done by someone known to them. Heinous overkill crimes are happening and the perp was a stranger to the victim or victims.

We have seen so many killers that overkill their victims. Maybe it is their own personal inner rage that makes them do so.

Imo they were dead when the call was made to Taylor's cell phone which would make it around 5:10 pm and Peter Placker found them around 5:25 pm.

Marc Klass said someone can leave the scene and go one mile per minute so that would put the killer way out of the surrounding scene some 15 miles away and continuing to travel further and further away.

imoo

[Mysterylover]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

For a year, Taylor had made the quarter-mile walk down the road to the bridge daily as exercise, Placker told FOXNews.com.
"She hardly ever does it at the same time every day," he said.
"Sometimes she'll do it in the morning, sometimes she'll do it in the afternoon, sometimes she'll do it about an hour or two before dark."

Skylar's grandmother, from a Nancy Grace interview:
"Well, Sunday afternoon. My daughter was the second person to arrive on the scene.
And the daddy of Taylor wouldn't let her near Skyla. And she called us at our home,
and we flew over there to see about her because we knew something was drastically wrong. So it was Sunday afternoon, probably 5:20."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/


It's been reported 2 different times when the girls left the house that Sunday, 4:30 and 5:00pm..I haven' heard which was correct

Taylor's grandfather, found the girls clothed in T-shirts and shorts just 20 to 25 minutes after they had left Taylor's house.

GP made the 911 call at 5:41 pm..

all the cell phone call times will give a good time-line, if LE will only give us that info...imo

[GetSmart]

Letsthink: "all the cell phone call times will give a good time-line, if LE will only give us that info...imo "

Like we have said before there is so much that is being kept under wraps.
Then they want public help! I really hope for those girls sake they have a GOOD reason. Like Lets said how in regards to the cell phone time lines. I don't know how that would hurt anything to let that info out. I am beginning to wonder when they say they are not releasing this or that info at this time is it because they do not have the answers. I am so frustrated.

[frogjustfrog]

I understood that Mr Placker found the kids about 5:30 and immediately called the LE. Where does this 5:41 come in? I believe the answer to that is, it was 5:41 when Okfuskee County Sheriff's office was called. This was NOT the first call to LE. The first call went to Okmulgee County Sheriff office, as that is where the nearest tower took his 911 call.

A note on this face down thing. My husand said that when a killer know's a victim, they usually cover their face with something. I'm wondering if this is why the girls were on their face. Maybe he rolled them over with his foot, because he didnt have anything to cover their face with.
I was also told, by someone who was there investigation the story, to report, that she understood that when the Okmulgee County Sheriff's office arrived, they covered the bodies first. She isnt sure it is true, but believes she heard it that way. I guess they take a lightweight material, so that it will not disturb the crime scene, and lay it over them. Apparently the Mother and grandmother of Skyla were there fairly fast. So this crime scene (sounds too cold, doesnt it, for 2 little girls) had a number of family members there before even Okmulgee County had time to arrive. Which could have left lots of footprints, etc. I am not sure how close the first county deputy or the sheriff was to know how fast they arrived, but Okmulgee is about a 20 min drive at a pretty good high speed, to get there.
Claudia Farrow. She is a pretty strong woman,. She's tough, and I am sure she got there fast to protect and comfort her daughter, the mother of Skyla. I know it didnt take her long. That came from someone I know who knows her.

[FlowerChild]

I understood that Mr Placker found the kids about 5:30 and immediately called the LE. Where does this 5:41 come in? I believe the answer to that is, it was 5:41 when Okfuskee County Sheriff's office was called. This was NOT the first call to LE. The first call went to Okmulgee County Sheriff office, as that is where the nearest tower took his 911 call.

A note on this face down thing. My husand said that when a killer know's a victim, they usually cover their face with something. I'm wondering if this is why the girls were on their face. Maybe he rolled them over with his foot, because he didnt have anything to cover their face with.
I was also told, by someone who was there investigation the story, to report, that she understood that when the Okmulgee County Sheriff's office arrived, they covered the bodies first. She isnt sure it is true, but believes she heard it that way. I guess they take a lightweight material, so that it will not disturb the crime scene, and lay it over them. Apparently the Mother and grandmother of Skyla were there fairly fast. So this crime scene (sounds too cold, doesnt it, for 2 little girls) had a number of family members there before even Okmulgee County had time to arrive. Which could have left lots of footprints, etc. I am not sure how close the first county deputy or the sheriff was to know how fast they arrived, but Okmulgee is about a 20 min drive at a pretty good high speed, to get there.
Claudia Farrow. She is a pretty strong woman,. She's tough, and I am sure she got there fast to protect and comfort her daughter, the mother of Skyla. I know it didnt take her long. That came from someone I know who knows her.
I believe you are correct, the call was made closer to 5:30 and by the time the Okfuskee County Sheriff got the call and officers were dispatched it was 5:41 - that's just 11 minutes (or less) - makes total sense since the call came from a cell phone and it had to be determined where the caller was - can't pull it up on the 911 screen mapping - has to be done manually. Who knows how long that took with Peter Placker in shock?

Peter Placker said (and the Sheriff confirmed) that he kept everyone away from the scene until LE arrived. I think Skyla's GMa saw Skyla at a distance and then once the ME had finished - I think the ME might have placed gauze over the worst of the facial wounds to spare her family the sight of them (before the funeral home "fixed" them) and Skyla's GMa moved the gauze and looked at Skyla's face. I don't think LE or the CS Techs or the ME allowed GMa to run thru the crime scene and touch the body and it was obvious that the girls were gone - I don't think paramedics did anything with the bodies at the scene except maybe cover them with a sterile, clean plastic blanket to preserve evidence. Why would paramedics be putting gauze over the wounds? Doesn't make sense, but the ME doing it to spare her family does.

And whoever said the girls were already dead at 5:10, I agree. Taylor would have answered the call from her dad if she could have. If the girls left at 4:30 and made it to the bridge, by 5:10 they would have been headed home - might have even BEEN home by 5:10. I think they were killed shortly after 5PM at the spot they would have reached on their "walk" by that time. Which also means they did not have time for talking to someone or doing "stuff" at the bridge.

And I believe the 5 boys in the truck who were shooting were NOT at the Bad Creek bridge when the girls were killed, but elsewhere - about 3 miles further away if I remember correctly. I don't think there was ANYONE shooting at the bridge at the time the girls were killed. LE just said people did target shoot and hang-out there, not that people were there that day at the time the girls were killed. LE isn't stupid - I am sure they checked the boys out and know they had only one shotgun (and no other guns) with them. They didn't say the ages, but I would believe it would be hard for 5 boys to ALL keep the secret under questioning from LE - somebody would have cracked if they had killed the girls.

My Opinion

[Albert18]

The time line only makes sense if people were being notified by horseback or if the event being reported was something insignificant like a drunk passed out in the middle of the road.

As I asked before, if you hear two children have been attacked, why is it the automatic assumption that they are dead. It isn't. You would automatically assume they can be helped and you rush to help, whether they are your children or not.

[Mysterylover]

[QUOTE=frogjustfrog;2375074]
I understood that Mr Placker found the kids about 5:30 and immediately called the LE.
Where does this 5:41 come in?
I believe the answer to that is, it was 5:41 when Okfuskee County Sheriff's office was called.
This was NOT the first call to LE. The first call went to Okmulgee County Sheriff office, as that is where the nearest tower took his 911 call...(QUOTE)


This is where I read the 5:40 pm..

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/06/oklahoma-invest.html

[raeann]

I have been trying to remember and find info. on a similar case to this from ten years ago or so...my memory is not great, but I am sure those of you with more experience at these cases will remember this. I believe it was in either Texas or Arizona, a mother drove into their neighborhood after running errands. The little girl decided to get out at the entrance to either jog or ride a scooter towards the mailboxes while the mother went the other direction towards their home. When the mom and other kids had unloaded the car, groceries etc. about 15 minutes later and the girl had not arrived yet, they got back into the car to go pick her up. She was found dead on the side of the road with no other cars or people observed anywhere in the area during the 15 minutes she was alone. I also recall that her father worked or had worked for some rock band (possible Bon Jovi or Van Halen) and that the band put up a large reward for information about the case. I just can NOT remember the names involved to look up any information. Does anyone remember this case or what was ever found out about it at the time?

[Mysterylover]

Letsthink: "all the cell phone call times will give a good time-line, if LE will only give us that info...imo "

Like we have said before there is so much that is being kept under wraps.
Then they want public help! I really hope for those girls sake they have a GOOD reason.
Like Lets said how in regards to the cell phone time lines. I don't know how that would hurt anything to let that info out.
I am beginning to wonder when they say they are not releasing this or that info at this time is it because they do not have the answers. I am so frustrated.....

Get.... why hasn't the 911 tape been released?
I have heard 911 tapes of people dying in car wrecks, in fires and being shot. So why not this tape...could it be "what someone was saying during the call"?....jmo

Here's a good picture of the location of the murders.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080611/capt.72c03105a1ce46af82e9986bedb6d63d.girls_killed _okso104.jpg

[sheza]

I understood that Mr Placker found the kids about 5:30 and immediately called the LE. Where does this 5:41 come in? I believe the answer to that is, it was 5:41 when Okfuskee County Sheriff's office was called. This was NOT the first call to LE. The first call went to Okmulgee County Sheriff office, as that is where the nearest tower took his 911 call.

A note on this face down thing. My husand said that when a killer know's a victim, they usually cover their face with something. I'm wondering if this is why the girls were on their face. Maybe he rolled them over with his foot, because he didnt have anything to cover their face with.
I was also told, by someone who was there investigation the story, to report, that she understood that when the Okmulgee County Sheriff's office arrived, they covered the bodies first. She isnt sure it is true, but believes she heard it that way. I guess they take a lightweight material, so that it will not disturb the crime scene, and lay it over them. Apparently the Mother and grandmother of Skyla were there fairly fast. So this crime scene (sounds too cold, doesnt it, for 2 little girls) had a number of family members there before even Okmulgee County had time to arrive. Which could have left lots of footprints, etc. I am not sure how close the first county deputy or the sheriff was to know how fast they arrived, but Okmulgee is about a 20 min drive at a pretty good high speed, to get there.
Claudia Farrow. She is a pretty strong woman,. She's tough, and I am sure she got there fast to protect and comfort her daughter, the mother of Skyla. I know it didnt take her long. That came from someone I know who knows her.

Okfuskee Co. deputy lives close to the crime scene, Weleetka responded, Henryetta Ambulance, the scene was taped off, before Okmulgee got there.
Claudia stood at the crime scene tape.

[sheza]

I have been trying to remember and find info. on a similar case to this from ten years ago or so...my memory is not great, but I am sure those of you with more experience at these cases will remember this. I believe it was in either Texas or Arizona, a mother drove into their neighborhood after running errands. The little girl decided to get out at the entrance to either jog or ride a scooter towards the mailboxes while the mother went the other direction towards their home. When the mom and other kids had unloaded the car, groceries etc. about 15 minutes later and the girl had not arrived yet, they got back into the car to go pick her up. She was found dead on the side of the road with no other cars or people observed anywhere in the area during the 15 minutes she was alone. I also recall that her father worked or had worked for some rock band (possible Bon Jovi or Van Halen) and that the band put up a large reward for information about the case. I just can NOT remember the names involved to look up any information. Does anyone remember this case or what was ever found out about it at the time?

Have you looked at the Laura Hobbs & Krystal Tobais murder case?

[GetSmart]

I found an update in The Joplin Globe Published July 11, 2008 09:13 pm - GIRARD, Kan. — Aaron Graham will face a mandatory sentence of life in prison after pleading guilty Friday to first-degree murder in the Jan. 30, 2007, shooting death of Jamey Richardson in Baxter Springs.

Third defendant in slaying case pleads guilty


GIRARD, Kan. — Aaron Graham will face a mandatory sentence of life in prison after pleading guilty Friday to first-degree murder in the Jan. 30, 2007, shooting death of Jamey Richardson in Baxter Springs.
Graham, 23, of Pittsburg, would be eligible for parole after 20 years. His sentencing is set for Sept. 23. Other felony charges against Graham, including kidnapping, aggravated battery and aggravated assault, were dismissed in return for the guilty plea on the murder charge.
The crime to which Graham pleaded guilty was not premeditated murder, but rather murder while in the commission of another dangerous felony, specifically, kidnapping.
Richardson, a former Pittsburg State University basketball player, was 26 when he was found dead in a car in Baxter Springs. He died of a single gunshot wound to his left calf. Authorities said he bled to death.
Graham’s trial was to begin next week in Columbus. He will have a bond revocation hearing Monday in Columbus.
Graham is the third defendant to be convicted in relation to Richardson’s death.
A Cherokee County jury in January found Samuel Becker, 23, of Pittsburg, guilty of first-degree murder and 10 other felonies. He was sentenced in March to life plus 5 1/2 years in prison. He must serve at least 25 years before he’s eligible for parole.
Edward Gordon, 20, of Baxter Springs, was found guilty of second-degree murder after pleading “no contest” to the charge as part of a plea agreement. The agreement calls for a 10-year prison sentence. His sentencing is scheduled for July 29, but Veronica Dersch, a Kansas assistant attorney general, on Friday said Gordon’s sentencing might be rescheduled to Sept. 23 to coincide with Graham’s sentencing.
Previous court testimony revealed that the case centered on the theft of a safe from Gordon’s house in Baxter Springs containing money and marijuana for which Gordon owed Graham repayment. Witnesses testified that the three traveled from house to house, threatening Gordon’s friends with a gun and attacking them in an attempt to obtain information about the missing safe. They returned to Gordon’s house, where some witnesses testified they were not allowed to leave. It was outside the house where Richardson was shot.
http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/local_story_193211359.html

[Mysterylover]

The fact the case appears dead and LE isn't commenting, is a big story. A front page story in my opinion. I think a good reporter could come up with a very nice story that would have LE running to a press conference.

LE needs to understand this crime doesn't belong to them and us civilians aren't mushrooms.

9/11 taught the authorities that the public is not the enemy. The general public in fact is a very important line of defense. Apparently that memo hasn't reached everybody....

Good point!

IF the girls left the house at 5:00 pm, does anyone believe the girls could have walked to the bridge and back, which by Yahoo maps estimates is 3/4 mile away, which puts a 1.5 mile trip within 20-25 minutes ?....

Now, If they left at 4:30 pm they could have been walking closer to the murder location, and the time line would still be tight, in my opinion...

[oceanblueeyes]

Good point!

IF the girls left the house at 5:00 pm, does anyone believe the girls could have walked to the bridge and back, which by Yahoo maps estimates is 3/4 mile away, which puts a 1.5 mile trip within 20-25 minutes ?....

Now, If they left at 4:30 pm they could have been walking closer to the murder location, and the time line would still be tight, in my opinion...


Agent Rosser with OSBI said the girls left around 4:30pm. I think he said it when he was at the scene with Greta.

imoo

[SeriouslySearching]

I have been trying to remember and find info. on a similar case to this from ten years ago or so...my memory is not great, but I am sure those of you with more experience at these cases will remember this. I believe it was in either Texas or Arizona, a mother drove into their neighborhood after running errands. The little girl decided to get out at the entrance to either jog or ride a scooter towards the mailboxes while the mother went the other direction towards their home. When the mom and other kids had unloaded the car, groceries etc. about 15 minutes later and the girl had not arrived yet, they got back into the car to go pick her up. She was found dead on the side of the road with no other cars or people observed anywhere in the area during the 15 minutes she was alone. I also recall that her father worked or had worked for some rock band (possible Bon Jovi or Van Halen) and that the band put up a large reward for information about the case. I just can NOT remember the names involved to look up any information. Does anyone remember this case or what was ever found out about it at the time?I vaguely recall that one. I can't remember the name either, but it seems more recent than 10 years ago. Let me do some checking.

Welcome to WS, Raeann! :)

[oceanblueeyes]

I found an update in The Joplin Globe Published July 11, 2008 09:13 pm - GIRARD, Kan. — Aaron Graham will face a mandatory sentence of life in prison after pleading guilty Friday to first-degree murder in the Jan. 30, 2007, shooting death of Jamey Richardson in Baxter Springs.

Third defendant in slaying case pleads guilty


GIRARD, Kan. — Aaron Graham will face a mandatory sentence of life in prison after pleading guilty Friday to first-degree murder in the Jan. 30, 2007, shooting death of Jamey Richardson in Baxter Springs.
Graham, 23, of Pittsburg, would be eligible for parole after 20 years. His sentencing is set for Sept. 23. Other felony charges against Graham, including kidnapping, aggravated battery and aggravated assault, were dismissed in return for the guilty plea on the murder charge.
The crime to which Graham pleaded guilty was not premeditated murder, but rather murder while in the commission of another dangerous felony, specifically, kidnapping.
Richardson, a former Pittsburg State University basketball player, was 26 when he was found dead in a car in Baxter Springs. He died of a single gunshot wound to his left calf. Authorities said he bled to death.
Graham’s trial was to begin next week in Columbus. He will have a bond revocation hearing Monday in Columbus.
Graham is the third defendant to be convicted in relation to Richardson’s death.
A Cherokee County jury in January found Samuel Becker, 23, of Pittsburg, guilty of first-degree murder and 10 other felonies. He was sentenced in March to life plus 5 1/2 years in prison. He must serve at least 25 years before he’s eligible for parole.
Edward Gordon, 20, of Baxter Springs, was found guilty of second-degree murder after pleading “no contest” to the charge as part of a plea agreement. The agreement calls for a 10-year prison sentence. His sentencing is scheduled for July 29, but Veronica Dersch, a Kansas assistant attorney general, on Friday said Gordon’s sentencing might be rescheduled to Sept. 23 to coincide with Graham’s sentencing.
Previous court testimony revealed that the case centered on the theft of a safe from Gordon’s house in Baxter Springs containing money and marijuana for which Gordon owed Graham repayment. Witnesses testified that the three traveled from house to house, threatening Gordon’s friends with a gun and attacking them in an attempt to obtain information about the missing safe. They returned to Gordon’s house, where some witnesses testified they were not allowed to leave. It was outside the house where Richardson was shot.
http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/local_story_193211359.html

Thanks for the article, GetSmart. I find it very interesting.

First the sudden plea deal right before trial but that in the end the DA did not call Gordon to testify in either trial. I think he just put all of the defendants on notice that he would and that seems to have scared Graham enough to take his medicine.

For it to be one of Gordon's stipulations with his own plea deal and him not appearing it makes me wonder if the DA worried about his safety as a witness or his family's safety.

Was Graham afraid that Gordon was going to lash out and accuse him of having someone murder someone in his family trying to get Gordon to shut up?

It is just so uncommon to have a key witness like this and not call them in the DA's CIC.

imoo

[frogjustfrog]

Thank you for that info. I see by your posts at topix, you live very near the area. I am sure I know who you are. What do you feel about all this?

[frogjustfrog]

sorry, I guess I dont have how to do my postings all down right yet. will try to read more on how to do things. My last comment was to Sheza in regards to when the LE arrived, and who.

[Tom'sGirl]

sorry, I guess I dont have how to do my postings all down right yet. will try to read more on how to do things. My last comment was to Sheza in regards to when the LE arrived, and who.
When you want to reply to a post, just hit the http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2375384) on your right and reply...hope this helps!

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks for posting that article, GS! Good find.

[frogjustfrog]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

For a year, Taylor had made the quarter-mile walk down the road to the bridge daily as exercise, Placker told FOXNews.com.
"She hardly ever does it at the same time every day," he said.
"Sometimes she'll do it in the morning, sometimes she'll do it in the afternoon, sometimes she'll do it about an hour or two before dark."

Skylar's grandmother, from a Nancy Grace interview:
"Well, Sunday afternoon. My daughter was the second person to arrive on the scene.
And the daddy of Taylor wouldn't let her near Skyla. And she called us at our home,
and we flew over there to see about her because we knew something was drastically wrong. So it was Sunday afternoon, probably 5:20."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/


It's been reported 2 different times when the girls left the house that Sunday, 4:30 and 5:00pm..I haven' heard which was correct

Taylor's grandfather, found the girls clothed in T-shirts and shorts just 20 to 25 minutes after they had left Taylor's house.

GP made the 911 call at 5:41 pm..

all the cell phone call times will give a good time-line, if LE will only give us that info...imo

When you want to reply to a post, just hit the http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2375384) on your right and reply...hope this helps!

Got it. Thank you

[frogjustfrog]

I'm interested in what Mary was feeling about this skunk thing, that she posted on topix, and about where that old homestead is. Sheza? do you know? I wonder too just because I grew up around there and always love to put stories with places. Although, it appears I wouldnt want to drive down into those bogs for fear of getting stuck!

[FLMom]

Lurking and trying to stay caught up here. . .

re: The gauze used by the EMT's. It's possible that they were using the gauze at the direction of LE. During transportation it's possible for the evidence (bullet) to become dislodged and lost. This was probably done not for asthetics but for that reason.

Just have to say ya'll have done a heck of a job and it's a bugger trying to keep up!

[Tom'sGirl]

I'm interested in what Mary was feeling about this skunk thing, that she posted on topix, and about where that old homestead is. Sheza? do you know? I wonder too just because I grew up around there and always love to put stories with places. Although, it appears I wouldnt want to drive down into those bogs for fear of getting stuck!
She posts about it over at this link fjf
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66490

Her post about the skunk is here
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2372970&postcount=131

[frogjustfrog]

She posts about it over at this link fjf
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66490

Her post about the skunk is here
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2372970&postcount=131
Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Like I said, I havent had time to read all the "how tos" about how this forum works, but I'm trying to get the time to. Any help you all give me is nice and I hope I am not too much of a nusiance. lol Thanks again :crazy: