Brooke Bennett, 12 years old Randolph VT #14

[jnodrog]

I'm sure he knew her work habits. But I really think he took her somewhere else.
or maybe whoever posted earlier that Denise was out of town.
maybe the date this was supposed to happen had to change because Denises trip out of town was changed by her employer.
That would cause them to postpone the kidnapping for a few days etc...

Allen

[Medea]

i don't either, but it's possible they were "wannabe sophisticated"......just sickening....i don't know how many times to say that word...sickening!...i must say though, i'm glad all these folks are, for the most part, stuck on stupid....


My theory is that Jacques ability to control AR and brainwash her fed into his delusions of being a master criminal...he could have done a couple of google searches and found out that the fake messages would track back to him if the police ever checked. This plot was destined to fail from the beginning.

[DianeB]

He's been abusing AR for 5 years in the house he shares with Denise, she has found lubricant, porn, sex toys and her daughter in a towel upstairs with Jacques and a dry shower...and none of this apparently registered with her, so why would Jacques worry about her?He appears to have been more concerned about Brooke's mother and sister than he was about his wife, and frankly I can see why if she bought the story that her daughter was holding sex toys "for a friend". I would love to have seen the look on the investigators' faces when she came out with that one.

[cheko1]

Yeah, I didn't spend a lot of time pouring over those communications since in the affidavits FBI said it was Gagnon & Jacques's computers and phone record communications at the time. I think it was all hoaxed by Gagnon & Jacques.

Except maybe for the one msg from JUVENILE 1. But there again she was so 100% totally lied to about everything for her entire life (according to affidavits) she was living in a realm that never existed.


Juvie 1 was lied to from the time she was 9 yrs old.
She is now 14 yrs old does anyone know her birth date? When she'd be 15?

I understand she was lied to for 5 yrs. / I also understand the mental abuse she was under. But at what age would she become an accomplice? I don't buy the fact she just did what she was told to do by MJ & others & that Breckenridge was a government organization.

She was having sex with MJ / her boyfriend / & apparently whoever else she was told to have sex with. I find this hard to believe, am I the only one?

[MCDRAW]

Hi Chica - Thanks for the info, I was trying to piece this all together.

As far as Denise goes is I were "her" and had NO prior knowledge of my husband sexually abusing my daughter and found out he had been for 5 years and sexually abused & KILLED my niece.....you wouldn't see me standing by the POS in a court room....BUT you wold hear my sreaming from my lungs I want the harshest punishment possilbe and I didn't know and had no involvement what so ever.

I think she knew WAYYYYYY more and it will come out soon......

MN what a great place :-)


I'm not sure she was there to support Jacques.

[Adalena935]

Seems to me that you can't have it both ways...

Some seem to think that there is some huge child porn operation that has been going on for years, including filming, sale, distribution, ties to russian porn industry, etc..

However, the ineptitude with regard to computers/internet of the part of these guys is pretty staggering:

Logging in to someone else's myspace account from a public library (and/or from your home/work computer)?!?
Telling LE "Oh yeah, by the way, I *did* have child porn, but it's gone now." Hello?!? why even mention it if he thought that it had been "disposed of"?

Even if these guys were involved in just VIEWING/downloading child porn for any length of time, you would think that they would have to know about IP address anonymizers (as mentioned in these threads), etc, etc. I would expect that if they wanted to distribute this stuff, their potential "customers" would try to make sure that they at least knew what they were doing.

Certainly doesn't sound like "big time", to me.

I think a lot of child porn criminals are unsophisticated. I don't think it's a matter of having it one way or the other. I think there's a wider grey area to be considered.

How sophisticated does a man have to be to rape a 6 yr old, take pictures, be on news groups, use codes to sell the pictures he took of his home manufactured child porn? Then several thousand others do the same and sell it around to the news group pals using pre-arranged codes to belong to the news groups in the first place for this purpose; and him buy theirs?

I was googling last nite and reading on how the FBI and International law enforcement agencies track these people and it was interesting. But no one has to be particularly bright to belong to one of these news groups on the net or go undetected for years.

It took a child's murder.

[becca]

My theory is that Jacques ability to control AR and brainwash her fed into his delusions of being a master criminal...he could have done a couple of google searches and found out that the fake messages would track back to him if the police ever checked. This plot was destined to fail from the beginning.

Just because they were stuck on stupid doesn't mean others weren't just as stupid. Stupid flocks together when it comes to these POS. AR said she was with other men besides MJ... we know about RG so who else was that stupid in that little town? She said she was drugged... do we believe that they didn't know about GHB? Do we really believe that only two men were involved ?
Stupid has a way of attracting others that are just as stupid..... there are more and they will go down on a wide range of charges from sex with a minor, to kiddie porn ... owning, distributing it ....

[DianeB]

But at what age would she become an accomplice?
Stockholm syndrome? She seems to have been identifying with her tormentor.

I'm not sure she was there to support Jacques. Nor am I.

[mercibeaucoup]

I've been scratching my head about something since we first heard it and it really bugs me ....

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation as to *WHY* Gagnon EVER admitted to LE, in the first place, that he possessed (any) Porn?? :confused:

I feel that he was trying to throw LE off by saying he had porn and it was in a (never existing, IMO) safe that had been thrown away somewhere in San Antonio... knowing that he has no more child porn anywhere in the state of Texas, and that without evidence they can't prosecute him for child porn no matter what he says.

[SeriouslySearching]

Maybe Jacques had photos of their encounter with AR the previous year?I think so. I think they both did.

[Liz]

Gevalia's (french name i can't type, lol)....i always empty the packages & put it in a 'tight lock' canister, after opening....i love this stuff...strong, but soooo good.....cheers!

:coffeecup: :toast:

Me too! Right into the "Lock n Lock" it goes!

[SailorMoon]

Afternoon all. I'm reading and trying to keep up..just not posting much. Appreciated the pics the IMBY posted. Question and it may have been covered already. Saw a uhaul truck in the rental house drive. What's up with that?

I think this is the tip of the iceburg. People are probably so creeped out...I mean..what else could a person say? Have we determined if AR is in foster care or away from the MOM who was supposed to be raising and taking care of her??

I was in the area again today there are a few little logging type roads that head up into the woods on the east side of Crocker Rd. This sugarhouse could be up one of those.

The location of the old shack that IMBY had a picture of doesnt look all that disturbed.

What is thought to be a screen on the roof, looks to me like a porch roof skylight thing, really hard to tell though.

Also there was a person walking the woodline behind the MJ home, and 2 vehicles in the old farmhouse yard, the black one doesnt look like its moved from when i was there saturday, the other a silver vehicle.

Allen

[philamena]

I'm not sure she was there to support Jacques.

Why not? She's married to him! :steamed:

[LI_Mom]

I think a lot of child porn criminals are unsophisticated. I don't think it's a matter of having it one way or the other. I think there's a wider grey area to be considered.

How sophisticated does a man have to be to rape a 6 yr old, take pictures, be on news groups, use codes to sell the pictures he took of his home manufactured child porn? Then several thousand others do the same and sell it around to the news group pals using pre-arranged codes to belong to the news groups in the first place for this purpose; and him buy theirs?

I was googling last nite and reading on how the FBI and International law enforcement agencies track these people and it was interesting. But no one has to be particularly bright to belong to one of these news groups on the net or go undetected for years.

It took a child's murder.

It's probably not so much that they're stupid but that their 'addiction' is so out of control that they take greater & greater risks.

[Carrington]

I would think child porn sites work the same as regular porn sites, only more secret.
I imagine it would be like getting into any other pay site. Legit E-mail address and credit card.
I have never tried to find child porn sites. I guess you would start by changing your security level to none.

IMO

[edgeofnight]

Thank-you VTNance for the defintions of skittles. I am more naive than I thought I thought it was the candy called skittles. The last name of Gagnon is a very common name where I grew up in Wisconsin, pronounced differently. Must admit Denise is prettier than I thought she would be. I really think also that she knew what was going on in her house maybe not everything, but at least a good amount. I am wondering if she will show up at the funeral, with fake crying and concern.

[close_enough]

I was in the area again today there are a few little logging type roads that head up into the woods on the east side of Crocker Rd. This sugarhouse could be up one of those.

The location of the old shack that IMBY had a picture of doesnt look all that disturbed.

What is thought to be a screen on the roof, looks to me like a porch roof skylight thing, really hard to tell though.

Also there was a person walking the woodline behind the MJ home, and 2 vehicles in the old farmhouse yard, the black one doesnt look like its moved from when i was there saturday, the other a silver vehicle.

Allen

interesting....thank for this info:)
i'm going to check out those other pics again....

[Carrington]

I'm not sure she was there to support Jacques.

I would have told the press that, and removed all doubt. If that was the case. :eek:

[DianeB]

I think so. I think they both did.

So who was holding the camera?

[CarpeDiem]

Juvie 1 was lied to from the time she was 9 yrs old.
She is now 14 yrs old does anyone know her birth date? When she'd be 15?


In October, it's in the documents.

[gigi2009]

I would think child porn sites work the same as regular porn sites, only more secret.
I imagine it would be like getting into any other pay site. Legit E-mail address and credit card.
I have never tried to find child porn sites. I guess you would start by changing your security level to none.

IMO

Child porn is extremely valuable to these people. They file share is how they pass it along to each other. There are thousands of file sharing sites. Very little cost to become a member. Most of the child porn files are coded/named certain ways in order to be recognized and downloaded. They also trade files through web based emails. The more you share, the more you receive.

[LI_Mom]

Afternoon all. I'm reading and trying to keep up..just not posting much. Appreciated the pics the IMBY posted. Question and it may have been covered already. Saw a uhaul truck in the rental house drive. What's up with that?

I think this is the tip of the iceburg. People are probably so creeped out...I mean..what else could a person say? Have we determined if AR is in foster care or away from the MOM who was supposed to be raising and taking care of her??


I don't know who that house belongs to.... it's possible they had things there & wanted to remove it before it's stolen by curiosity seekers?


None of the pics seemed to be an ongoing crime scene.


There hasn't been any news about ANY of the minors (AR, BF, siblings of Brooke or AR) as far as I know.

[angelwngs]

snip~He could have refused to help Jacques and then destroyed all of his porn. How then could Jacques have harmed him? It would only be the word of a child rapist and killer againt his. His porn and photos of AR would be gone. AR is already pretty far gone...he could have denied it.~snip

There could be video or photographic evidence of him with AR in MJ's possession.

[LI_Mom]

So who was holding the camera?

Could have been a tripod.

[VTNance]

I think 'Sam' was intended to be someone who attended a school somewhere in the area but wasn't necessarily from there. The fake 'skittlemeup' email says "I hate that I won't see u til ur classes start again in the fall", which makes me think he was supposed to be older, maybe in college?

That's a good point, there is a small college, Vermont Technical College, in Randolph Center. They could have been trying to make it seem like a student from the college was involved, just to further complicate the issue. The planted semen may never have been intended to be traced to Juve2; merely to deflect suspicion from MJ, because what were they going to do, DNA test every male in the town? If Juve2 would not have had any other reason to come under suspicion...his DNA only serves to throw LE off the track from MJ.

But I think the ruses set up in the MySpace page were different from the ruses used on Brooke. The "skittlemeup" message was intended to be read by LE and others, not Brooke.

I think "Sam" refers to a local boy that Brooke may have liked, someone from school or a nearby school,... maybe a friend of Juve2. It sounded to me like they thought that the mention of "Sam" was really going to spark a response in Brooke.... that he was a known quantity. If so, he may have no idea they were using his name as a lure.

[gigi2009]

Lots of the laptops also have web cams built in. The lens is so small you, miss it if you weren't looking. A laptop can be sitting on the desk open and you'd have no idea you were being filmed or broadcast.

[SeriouslySearching]

So who was holding the camera?Tripod or webcam...take your pick.

[cheko1]

In October, it's in the documents.

Thank you!
I've read them several times but must of over looked that.

[murdershewrote]

from Court TV website...

Nolan said Brooke's death was a homicide, but he didn't say how she was killed. No one has been charged with her death. State police say it could take eight weeks before autopsy results are available.


so at least her death has officially been ruled a homocide...gosh, 8 weeks seems a long time for autopsy results. But I know to take that long I guess they would be waiting for tox results, I wonder if she was drugged? I'm sure they want to get every bit of information they can so they can throw the book at these monsters.

[petra]

Gevalia's (french name i can't type, lol)....i always empty the packages & put it in a 'tight lock' canister, after opening....i love this stuff...strong, but soooo good.....cheers!


O/T...gevalia's is svenska...swedish, now owned by kraft...just needed to add as a matter of national pride!:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gevalia

[cheko1]

Is any of our posters from Vermont going to the visitation or funeral?

[MCDRAW]

Why not? She's married to him! :steamed:


If my husband was arrested for such a thing...I woudn't be in court to support him. I might go so I could hear all the charges against him.

[MCDRAW]

It's probably not so much that they're stupid but that their 'addiction' is so out of control that they take greater & greater risks.


I agree.

[Cornflower]

O/T...gevalia's is svenska...swedish, now owned by kraft...just needed to add as a matter of national pride!:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gevalia

OT continues: I was just about to correct that too :)

[cheko1]

If my husband was arrested for such a thing...I woudn't be in court to support him. I might go so I could hear all the charges against him.

I'd make sure the media was WELL AWARE of the fact divorce papers was filed & he was soon to be an EX. :furious:

[Medea]

If my husband was arrested for such a thing...I woudn't be in court to support him. I might go so I could hear all the charges against him.

I don't see anything that Denise could say publicly that would help her.

If she says she 'had no idea' about Jacques and her daughter, nobody will believe her. The smartest thing she can do is keep her mouth shut.

[Liz]

I know a couple local ppl that only live down the road have said they think shes involved.

Allen

That is such an incredibly disturbing thought -- I've been trying (really hard) to give her the benefit of the doubt thus far. Mainly because I just don't want to believe it. I don't want to believe a mother could just turn her head and allow her own flesh and blood to be sexually abused and raped!

In trying to give her that benefit, it crossed my mind that perhaps these sisters, Denise and Cassandra, were raised under similar circumstances of extreme sexual perversion, to the point of thinking it's only natural. Gawd, could this be possible?

Thanks for your local input, Allen, regarding this and the info about Denise's workplace being so close to home.

[cheko1]

I don't see anything that Denise could say publicly that would help her.

If she says she 'had no idea' about Jacques and her daughter, nobody will believe her. The smartest thing she can do is keep her mouth shut.

We all know she isn't very smart......I've been waiting for her to explode.

[petra]

I think a lot of child porn criminals are unsophisticated. I don't think it's a matter of having it one way or the other. I think there's a wider grey area to be considered.

How sophisticated does a man have to be to rape a 6 yr old, take pictures, be on news groups, use codes to sell the pictures he took of his home manufactured child porn? Then several thousand others do the same and sell it around to the news group pals using pre-arranged codes to belong to the news groups in the first place for this purpose; and him buy theirs?

I was googling last nite and reading on how the FBI and International law enforcement agencies track these people and it was interesting. But no one has to be particularly bright to belong to one of these news groups on the net or go undetected for years.

It took a child's murder.

:furious: Yes, and more than just one child's muder or critical injury on international scale. One major problem, imo, is that althought interpol and other agencies are aware of handfuls of pedeos, they seem to wait üntil they can catch 'the big fish''. That is one reason this goes on for years, or way too long until they do a wide sweep of pedeo ring arrests.

[Amster]

Supposedly, Brooke was in the store with MJ to set up the phony story she was going to tell her mom....meet a friend, go visit friends relative in the hosp., etc. Again, supposedly, MJ asked the clerk if Brookes friend didn't show up, could Brooke use the phone to call someone to come and pick her up. So....they leave the store and go their separate ways. MJ and A.R. could have circled the block and picked her up. Makes more sense than Brooke wandering around town. Unless, MJ told her to "be seen". But why? Did Brooke even know about the made up story to mom? Personally, I'm nowhere near believing everything A.R. has said about that morning and day.

Also, RG said he had porn of girls as young as 5 years old....where did the info come from about "5 years worth of Russian porn"?

I'm starting to believe that Denise was on a business trip. That would be a reason for MJ to be home that day.....to be with the kids. ick. Cassandra said Brooke wasn't allowed to be at MJs home without another adult being there. Maybe Denise left that morning, early, and Brooke was supposed to go home. But, she wanted to stay for the "party"?

This is too confusing....

[petra]

OT continues: I was just about to correct that too :)

Tack eller takk...:)

[MCDRAW]

I'd make sure the media was WELL AWARE of the fact divorce papers was filed & he was soon to be an EX. :furious:


Oh, I would certainly file for divorce...not sure about alerting the media. In our Community we had three teenagers killed in a car accident. In our Community everyone knows everyone or they are kin to them. The media drove us crazy even setting up outside the funerals. So I'm not fond of the media.

[close_enough]

I feel that he was trying to throw LE off by saying he had porn and it was in a (never existing, IMO) safe that had been thrown away somewhere in San Antonio... knowing that he has no more child porn anywhere in the state of Texas, and that without evidence they can't prosecute him for child porn no matter what he says.

hmmm, & that KG in TX went along with this?...i think he admitted that RG called him & told him to get rid of the safe....& that he threw it in a dumpster.....why get KG involved? (confused)

[CarpeDiem]

If my husband was arrested for such a thing...I woudn't be in court to support him. I might go so I could hear all the charges against him.

Me too. Many people also go to court to face the one(s) that caused such harm, to make the perp uncomfortable, because they feel a duty to the victim to be there. More telling than wether she was at court, would perhaps be where she sat. On his side or the other?

[petra]

Is any of our posters from Vermont going to the visitation or funeral?

I will be with Brooke in spirit, that is for sure. I will be lighting a candle in honour of her short and sweet life.

[Chica]

That is such an incredibly disturbing thought -- I've been trying (really hard) to give her the benefit of the doubt thus far. Mainly because I just don't want to believe it. I don't want to believe a mother could just turn her head and allow her own flesh and blood to be sexually abused and raped!

In trying to give her that benefit, it crossed my mind that perhaps these sisters, Denise and Cassandra, were raised under similar circumstances of extreme sexual perversion, to the point of thinking it's only natural. Gawd, could this be possible?

Thanks for your local input, Allen, regarding this and the info about Denise's workplace being so close to home.

I have to add my two cents. My personal feeling (and hope!) is that the occurrance with the towel and device found in AR's bedroom happened VERY recently, and THAT is the reason she has been talking to AR's father and scheduling counseling sessions for her and AR. The fact that MJ allegedly told AR (as a third person, of course) that he 'heard around town' that Denise had been talking about divorcing MJ also alludes to the strong possibility that there was big trouble in the marriage - and I am hopeful that she was seriously talking divorce. Just imo, of course!

[Adalena935]

Juvie 1 was lied to from the time she was 9 yrs old.
She is now 14 yrs old does anyone know her birth date? When she'd be 15?

I understand she was lied to for 5 yrs. / I also understand the mental abuse she was under. But at what age would she become an accomplice? I don't buy the fact she just did what she was told to do by MJ & others & that Breckenridge was a government organization.

She was having sex with MJ / her boyfriend / & apparently whoever else she was told to have sex with. I find this hard to believe, am I the only one?

Oh well I referenced the affidavits 2X's in my post. U.S. codes (laws) are named in the affidavits.

I understand you disagree with what laws say is adult age. According to existing law though no one under age 18 can consent to sex, period. The affidavits say she doesn't remember a time when she wasn't sexually assaulted (raped).

She told authorities in those affidavits she was threatened with death and the death of her Mother if she failed to comply. Adults calling sexual assault of children under threat of death; "..having sex.." is a part of the problem of chlid rape and porn manufacturing and distribution in my opinion. Also music to pedophile's ears. There are groups who purport that agressively and I will never subscribe to it. We are a nation of laws and our laws are in place for a reason. We have collectively as a society agreed this is how we shall live.

Your representatives are there as public servants. You shoud petition them for adult age to be lowered to your liking for sexual gratification purposes of sick-minded violent men who threaten children with death if that's what you subscribe to. It would have no bearing on this case even if you did happen to succeed.

http://blackpearl.wcax.com/documents/Gagnon_affidavit.pdf (http://blackpearl.wcax.com/documents/Gagnon_affidavit.pdf)
Gagnon affidavit
http://blackpearl.wcax.com/documents/Jacques_affidavit.pdf (http://blackpearl.wcax.com/documents/Jacques_affidavit.pdf)
Jacques affidavit

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5300619&page=1 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5300619&page=1)

Federal prosecutors allege that Jacques used a pair of online identities to manipulate his young accomplice into thinking she was working with several men who were planning to initiate Bennett into a secret sex training program called "Breckenridge." , The unnamed girl, who is a minor

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/...guide_porn.html (http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/citizensguide_porn.html)

It is irrelevant that the age of consent for sexual activity in a given state might be lower than 18.

[Liz]

Close, "stuck on stoopid" .... lol

I can't tell you how many times since this case started unfolding that I hear ol' Ted Williams repeating that phrase. ;)

[petra]

That is such an incredibly disturbing thought -- I've been trying (really hard) to give her the benefit of the doubt thus far. Mainly because I just don't want to believe it. I don't want to believe a mother could just turn her head and allow her own flesh and blood to be sexually abused and raped!

In trying to give her that benefit, it crossed my mind that perhaps these sisters, Denise and Cassandra, were raised under similar circumstances of extreme sexual perversion, to the point of thinking it's only natural. Gawd, could this be possible?

Thanks for your local input, Allen, regarding this and the info about Denise's workplace being so close to home.

Same here.
And thanks to all the locals for all their input and great pictures.

[close_enough]

I have to add my two cents. My personal feeling (and hope!) is that the occurrance with the towel and device found in AR's bedroom happened VERY recently, and THAT is the reason she has been talking to AR's father and scheduling counseling sessions for her and AR. The fact that MJ allegedly told AR (as a third person, of course) that he 'heard around town' that Denise had been talking about divorcing MJ also alludes to the strong possibility that there was big trouble in the marriage - and I am hopeful that she was seriously talking divorce. Just imo, of course!

ya know, i noticed that also, while reading last night....:waitasec:
..glad you brought that up

[SailorMoon]

You're not kidding. My kids always get me doing something stupid and I forget its there all the time.

Lots of the laptops also have web cams built in. The lens is so small you, miss it if you weren't looking. A laptop can be sitting on the desk open and you'd have no idea you were being filmed or broadcast.

[close_enough]

Close, "stuck on stoopid" .... lol

I can't tell you how many times since this case started unfolding that I hear ol' Ted Williams repeating that phrase. ;)

:p

.

[Adalena935]

Supposedly, Brooke was in the store with MJ to set up the phony story she was going to tell her mom....meet a friend, go visit friends relative in the hosp., etc. Again, supposedly, MJ asked the clerk if Brookes friend didn't show up, could Brooke use the phone to call someone to come and pick her up. So....they leave the store and go their separate ways. MJ and A.R. could have circled the block and picked her up. Makes more sense than Brooke wandering around town. Unless, MJ told her to "be seen". But why? Did Brooke even know about the made up story to mom? Personally, I'm nowhere near believing everything A.R. has said about that morning and day.

Also, RG said he had porn of girls as young as 5 years old....where did the info come from about "5 years worth of Russian porn"?


http://blackpearl.wcax.com/documents/Gagnon_affidavit.pdf (http://blackpearl.wcax.com/documents/Gagnon_affidavit.pdf)
Gagnon affidavit
http://blackpearl.wcax.com/documents/Jacques_affidavit.pdf (http://blackpearl.wcax.com/documents/Jacques_affidavit.pdf)
Jacques affidavit


I'm starting to believe that Denise was on a business trip. That would be a reason for MJ to be home that day.....to be with the kids. ick. Cassandra said Brooke wasn't allowed to be at MJs home without another adult being there. Maybe Denise left that morning, early, and Brooke was supposed to go home. But, she wanted to stay for the "party"?

This is too confusing....

[close_enough]

He appears to have been more concerned about Brooke's mother and sister than he was about his wife, and frankly I can see why if she bought the story that her daughter was holding sex toys "for a friend". I would love to have seen the look on the investigators' faces when she came out with that one.

me toooooo...

[CarpeDiem]

I have to add my two cents. My personal feeling (and hope!) is that the occurrance with the towel and device found in AR's bedroom happened VERY recently, and THAT is the reason she has been talking to AR's father and scheduling counseling sessions for her and AR. The fact that MJ allegedly told AR (as a third person, of course) that he 'heard around town' that Denise had been talking about divorcing MJ also alludes to the strong possibility that there was big trouble in the marriage - and I am hopeful that she was seriously talking divorce. Just imo, of course!

That whole scenario with the Mom talking to the real Dad, IMO, is a LIE. He tells her in the email not to tell or let on to the Mom that she knows about said contact with "FATHER" because it will cause trouble or a fight and the Mom would find a way to blame the stepdad(dad) if she did. Much of that long paragraph also puts down the Mom in various ways, and he says she has nothing to complain about, etc., etc. The whole thing was meant to play with AR's mind again and make her resent or dislike her Mom, to cause distance and problems in that relationship. AR replies to the crap that she would kill her Mom if she left the stepdad.

(above emails referenced starting on Page 7 of Adnoids link, http://www.websleuths.com/adnoid/bennett/BT11210673.pdf)

[close_enough]

Just because they were stuck on stupid doesn't mean others weren't just as stupid. Stupid flocks together when it comes to these POS. AR said she was with other men besides MJ... we know about RG so who else was that stupid in that little town? She said she was drugged... do we believe that they didn't know about GHB? Do we really believe that only two men were involved ?
Stupid has a way of attracting others that are just as stupid..... there are more and they will go down on a wide range of charges from sex with a minor, to kiddie porn ... owning, distributing it ....

good point, becca...

[philamena]

If my husband was arrested for such a thing...I woudn't be in court to support him. I might go so I could hear all the charges against him.


MCDRAW,
Me too. I'd be there to hear the charges.
I definitely wouldn't go to support him. :mad:
Honestly, I would be ashamed for people to know he was my husband.
Something tells me Denise isn't ignorant to the sex ring.

[close_enough]

It's probably not so much that they're stupid but that their 'addiction' is so out of control that they take greater & greater risks.

yep, another good point made...

[VTNance]

MCDRAW,
Me too. I'd be there to hear the charges.
I definitely wouldn't go to support him. :mad:
Honestly, I would be ashamed for people to know he was my husband.
Something tells me Denise isn't ignorant to the sex ring.

IF there are bigger players involved in this, AND she knew what was going on, it makes more sense for her to 'stand by her man' and show her support, because otherwise she may face retribution?

IMO, she WAS involved simply by the fact of allowing children to be around that man. Even if the towel incident happened only a few weeks previous, she should have kicked him out, or packed herself and the kids up and left.... IMO!!!!

[Amster]

Denise needs to deal with the fact that MJ married her to gain access to her daughter....I wonder what part of "registered sex offender" she didn't understand?

[Adalena935]

I don't know. I still can't see *why* when he was contacted by LE that he would spill his guts about having 5 years worth of Russian child porn on his computer and immediately implicate himself, when he had no prior record. I mean he could have just said, I was doing my ex-bil a favor, trying to change some dates on my step daughter's my space account. And why was he so explicit about the type of porn?

UNless, for some reason, RG knows IF he doesn't implicate himself and get himself arrested and incarcerated into protective custody of sorts, he's going to be one big fat dead duck.

KWIM?

I don't know what to say outside what I've already said I'm guessing the reason is.

He was already implicated in a child's murder with a live child saying the killer and he had sexually assaulted her under threat of death of she and her mother. That carries the death penalty by federal law.

I think he was trying to cop a plea with the investigators to escape state execution. They already had the goods on him and he was gonna die anyway at hands of the state. I don't think he was afraid of the skinny weasel Jacques. I have guns in my home for self-protection. I know what sporting chance I'd give Jacques and I'm just a lil' old lady 100#s.

A life sentence in federal prison and possibly state execution by the feds is a bit much just because you feared a skinny weasel the likes of MJ in my opinion. That's just how I assess the situation though for what it's worth.

[close_enough]

O/T...gevalia's is svenska...swedish, now owned by kraft...just needed to add as a matter of national pride!:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gevalia

hi petra:Banane19:
hope you're doing good....

http://www.gevalia.com/Gevalia/catalog/product_detail.aspx?product_id=209
this is the flavor i was talking about....lol, i couldn't spell it..

(i love swedish meatballs:))

[DianeB]

I'm almost afraid to ask... doesn't AR have a younger stepsister? How old is she?

[Medea]

IF there are bigger players involved in this, AND she knew what was going on, it makes more sense for her to 'stand by her man' and show her support, because otherwise she may face retribution?

IMO, she WAS involved simply by the fact of allowing children to be around that man. Even if the towel incident happened only a few weeks previous, she should have kicked him out, or packed herself and the kids up and left.... IMO!!!!


She should have packed her kids up when he went to prison for aggravated rape and kidnapping. End of story.

[Adalena935]

Denise needs to deal with the fact that MJ married her to gain access to her daughter....I wonder what part of "registered sex offender" she didn't understand?

I so agree. There was some speculation I read somewhere that she may have found him with herself a willing pen pal while he was still in prison. But who knows.

[Liz]

Also, RG said he had porn of girls as young as 5 years old....where did the info come from about "5 years worth of Russian porn"?


Oops, I said that. :iamashamed0005:

So sorrreee
:bowdown:

So much info. So little sleep.

[MCDRAW]

I'm almost afraid to ask... doesn't AR have a younger stepsister? How old is she?


Yes, MJ and Denise's child together. I hope he didn't molest her. If he hadn't yet, it wouldn't be long before he did. IMO

[philamena]

SNIP
IMO, she WAS involved simply by the fact of allowing children to be around that man. Even if the towel incident happened only a few weeks previous, she should have kicked him out, or packed herself and the kids up and left.... IMO!!!!
Absolutely.
I just finished rereading the afidavits...:furious:
Yep, there was a towel incident, a find the KY Jelly incident,
and a find the dildo incident.
Denise can't be that stupid. :scream::yuck:

[nanandjim]

Ray has a degree in Mechanical Engineering and they all had "respectable" jobs. I have a feeling that MJ's money and land partly came from some inheritance from the family. His family is well connected in the community and has maintained successful businesses there for many, many years.
Didn't MJ and his father rape the sister/daughter? Didn't they go to prison for this offense? It seems to me that the father may have raped MJ. If not, the sexual offenses were out there in the open for MJ to do this to his sister. What a sick, sick family. I don't see how they were not run out of town.

[nanandjim]

Absolutely.
I just finished rereading the afidavits...:furious:
there was a towel incident, a find the KY Jelly incident,
and a find the dildo incident.
Denise can't be that stupid. :scream::yuck:
Even if AR said that she was holding things for a friend, why wouldn't Denise call the friend's mother? I know that I would call AR's bluff because I would be quite suspicious of my young daughter running around with a towel on with my RSO husband in the house with her. Couple that with the other finds and the alarm bells would be sounding loudly.

I suspect that Denise was naive in that she probably questioned AR over and over again. AR is apparently an accomplished liar and probably convinced her mother that nothing was going on. The boyfriend was probably added to the mix and might have calmed the mother's suspicions. I wonder if the boyfriend was MJ's idea.

[MCDRAW]

Didn't MJ and his father rape the sister/daughter? Didn't they go to prison for this offense? It seems to me that the father may have raped MJ. If not, the sexual offenses were out there in the open for MJ to do this to his sister. What a sick, sick family. I don't see how they were not run out of town.


They didn't go to jail for raping the sister. She wouldn't testify. So the charges were dropped.

[VTNance]

She should have packed her kids up when he went to prison for aggravated rape and kidnapping. End of story.

Except she wasn't even married to him yet.... she married him after he got out! And, IIRC, not long at all after he got out....so maybe they had become pen pals. Although, I believe they are both lifelong residents of the area.... probably already knew each other?

[nanandjim]

I'm almost afraid to ask... doesn't AR have a younger stepsister? How old is she?
I think that she has a younger half-sister that is 8 years old.

[calidreamin]

Yes, MJ and Denise's child together. I hope he didn't molest her. If he hadn't yet, it wouldn't be long before he did. IMO

I had forgoten about MJ and Denises child, I think she is 8. That is just about the age that MJ started abusing AR.

[close_enough]

I don't know what to say outside what I've already said I'm guessing the reason is.

He was already implicated in a child's murder with a live child saying the killer and he had sexually assaulted her under threat of death of she and her mother. That carries the death penalty by federal law.

I think he was trying to cop a plea with the investigators to escape state execution. They already had the goods on him and he was gonna die anyway at hands of the state. I don't think he was afraid of the skinny weasel Jacques. I have guns in my home for self-protection. I know what sporting chance I'd give Jacques and I'm just a lil' old lady 100#s.

A life sentence in federal prison and possibly state execution by the feds is a bit much just because you feared a skinny weasel the likes of MJ in my opinion. That's just how I assess the situation though for what it's worth.

that does make sense...that part was in an affidavit i read last night..

[Adalena935]

:furious: Yes, and more than just one child's muder or critical injury on international scale. One major problem, imo, is that althought interpol and other agencies are aware of handfuls of pedeos, they seem to wait üntil they can catch 'the big fish''. That is one reason this goes on for years, or way too long until they do a wide sweep of pedeo ring arrests.

I think law enforcement needs more funding from congress. They seem understaffed for the way this crime is mushrooming out of control. Frightful implications.

[MCDRAW]

Even if AR said that she was holding tihngs for a friend, why wouldn't Denise call the friend's mother? I know that I would call AR's bluff because I would be quite suspicious of my young daughter running around with a towel on with my RSO husband in the house with her. Couple that with the other finds and the alarm bells would be sounding loudly.

I suspect that Denise was naive in that she probably questioned AR over and over again. AR is apparently an accomplished liar and probably convinced her mother that nothing was going on. The boyfriend was probably added to the mix and might have calmed the mother's suspicions. I wonder if the boyfriend was MJ's idea.


Some parents are very trusting. They believe what ever their kids tell them. I on the other hand very rarely believe what my kids say. I have friends that will believe what their kids say even when it makes no sense. :waitasec:

[nanandjim]

They didn't go to jail for raping the sister. She wouldn't testify. So the charges were dropped.
I wonder how screwed up this sister is. I also wonder if the grandfather continued to molest people. It usually doesn't stop. What a nighmare.

[Pinkhammer]

On FOXnews this morning, Megyn Kelly said that more arrests are expected, and she mentioned the Grosenheiders.

[calidreamin]

Except she wasn't even married to him yet.... she married him after he got out! And, IIRC, not long at all after he got out....so maybe they had become pen pals. Although, I believe they are both lifelong residents of the area.... probably already knew each other?

Yuck! What in all that is holy would make that woman be a pen pal to a sex offender? She brings that kind of a man into her house with her own children there?:eek:

[philamena]

SNIP

I suspect that Denise was naive in that she probably questioned AR over and over again. AR is apparently an accomplished liar and probably convinced her mother that nothing was going on. The boyfriend was probably added to the mix and might have calmed the mother's suspicions. I wonder if the boyfriend was MJ's idea.

I totally agree nanandjim.

[nanandjim]

Some parents are very trusting. They believe what ever their kids tell them. I on the other hand very rarely believe what my kids say. I have friends that will believe what their kids say even when it makes no sense. :waitasec:
I am one of the trusting types. I believe whatever people tell me. I might not now since I have been reading these boards, but it is in my nature to want to believe that everyone is telling the truth. I just don't understand how people can lie and worse. Honestly...I don't know what happened to make people like this...

I also do not understand why MJ would want to have sex with young, unwilling girls. He was married to an attractive woman, much more attractive than he. Yet, I agree with all others who have said that he merely married this woman to have access to her daughter. I think the same goes for RG and his marriage to Cassandra. It was not a coincidence.

[CarpeDiem]

Some parents are very trusting. They believe what ever their kids tell them. I on the other hand very rarely believe what my kids say. I have friends that will believe what their kids say even when it makes no sense. :waitasec:

I have one of my four that can snow me, the little white lie stuff. The other's I can tell in an instant when they are fibbing. It scares me I can't tell very well with the other. :eek:

[VTGirl007]

I'm trying to catch up here, so please forgive me if someone else has pointed this out:
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

in the comments, someone knows (from a source they refuse to quote) that Denise walked in on MJ and AR in the act and walked out and never said anything. Seems to me that LE should be tracking that commenter down and finding out who that source is and what else Denise has told them. IMO, if she knew what was happening and did nothing she's just as guilty as the rest of them.

[close_enough]

That's a good point, there is a small college, Vermont Technical College, in Randolph Center. They could have been trying to make it seem like a student from the college was involved, just to further complicate the issue. The planted semen may never have been intended to be traced to Juve2; merely to deflect suspicion from MJ, because what were they going to do, DNA test every male in the town? If Juve2 would not have had any other reason to come under suspicion...his DNA only serves to throw LE off the track from MJ.

But I think the ruses set up in the MySpace page were different from the ruses used on Brooke. The "skittlemeup" message was intended to be read by LE and others, not Brooke.

I think "Sam" refers to a local boy that Brooke may have liked, someone from school or a nearby school,... maybe a friend of Juve2. It sounded to me like they thought that the mention of "Sam" was really going to spark a response in Brooke.... that he was a known quantity. If so, he may have no idea they were using his name as a lure.

ooooh, interesting....i like to read all info from folks in VT...

and welcome:)
i agree about the "skittlemeup" message...

[Medea]

i don't think she questioned AR over and over again, i think when something was right in her face, like a sex toy that she's never seen before, or her daughter in a towel with a dry shower that she asked a minimum of questions and whatever ridiculous answer she was given, she was satisfied. she did everything in her power not to have to know what was going on.

[Liz]

I don't know what to say outside what I've already said I'm guessing the reason is.

He was already implicated in a child's murder with a live child saying the killer and he had sexually assaulted her under threat of death of she and her mother. That carries the death penalty by federal law.

I think he was trying to cop a plea with the investigators to escape state execution. They already had the goods on him and he was gonna die anyway at hands of the state. I don't think he was afraid of the skinny weasel Jacques. I have guns in my home for self-protection. I know what sporting chance I'd give Jacques and I'm just a lil' old lady 100#s.

A life sentence in federal prison and possibly state execution by the feds is a bit much just because you feared a skinny weasel the likes of MJ in my opinion. That's just how I assess the situation though for what it's worth.

The caffeine is beginning to work. ;)

I think I'd been ignoring facts that are now re-surfacing in my (small) mind lol .... that MJ was already in custody; that most likely LE were grilling RG using strong-armed type interrogation tactics. Probably playing one against the other and all. Added to the fact that RG was probably pretty stunned when they apprehended him that day. Kinda caught him with his pants down, so to speak. ;) He was probably freaking out, bigtime, and just spillin'!


Yep, I'm finally getting it. ;) Thanks to you, others here, and the caffeine!
Thanks everyone! :)

[Adalena935]

It's probably not so much that they're stupid but that their 'addiction' is so out of control that they take greater & greater risks.

I think that's exactly the case.

[MCDRAW]

I am one of the trusting types. I believe whatever people tell me. I might not now since I have been reading these boards, but it is in my nature to want to believe that everyone is telling the truth. I just don't understand how people can lie and worse. Honestly...I don't know what happened to make people like this...

I also do not understand why MJ would want to have sex with young, unwilling girls. He was married to an attractive woman, much more attractive than he. Yet, I agree with all others who have said that he merely married this woman to have access to her daughter. I think the same goes for RG and his marriage to Cassandra. It was not a coincidence.


I probably would be the trusting type but I have a brother that is a drug addict. He lies about everything. He is a con. People fall for his lies all the time. I will say he has gotten better at it over time so he really is very convincing. Then we are all mad when he dupe's us again. Because of this I really don't trust my teenagers....I verify as much as I can.

[close_enough]

I'm trying to catch up here, so please forgive me if someone else has pointed this out:
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

in the comments, someone knows (from a source they refuse to quote) that Denise walked in on MJ and AR in the act and walked out and never said anything. Seems to me that LE should be tracking that commenter down and finding out who that source is and what else Denise has told them. IMO, if she knew what was happening and did nothing she's just as guilty as the rest of them.

below is a comment also, from the site you linked.....

Brooke's mother, Cassandra Gagnon, responded to critisism she was at least partly to blame for her daughters death "to hell with people who think that, I can't be with my kids 24/7"

well, it's a response to the above quote...

eta...."In an interview on Saturday's WCAX newscast" for the above, per BusterT's comment at 11:58 today.....

[MCDRAW]

I'm trying to catch up here, so please forgive me if someone else has pointed this out:
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

in the comments, someone knows (from a source they refuse to quote) that Denise walked in on MJ and AR in the act and walked out and never said anything. Seems to me that LE should be tracking that commenter down and finding out who that source is and what else Denise has told them. IMO, if she knew what was happening and did nothing she's just as guilty as the rest of them.



In my opinion, if this really happened then the "source" should be telling the F.B.I. this and not commenting on the computer. Second, if it happened and the "source" learned about it and didn't go to LE then they are just as guilty, IMO. People sometimes say they know something they don't just to get attention.

[close_enough]

I'm trying to catch up here, so please forgive me if someone else has pointed this out:
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

in the comments, someone knows (from a source they refuse to quote) that Denise walked in on MJ and AR in the act and walked out and never said anything. Seems to me that LE should be tracking that commenter down and finding out who that source is and what else Denise has told them. IMO, if she knew what was happening and did nothing she's just as guilty as the rest of them.

i read that, & i agree with you.....thanks for the link:seeya:

[Pinkhammer]

Someone on the previous thread had a question about Anniston, Alabama. John Mark Karr was from this area. Is Anniston near Cullinan?

http://starpolice.blogspot.com/2007/12/one-time-suspect-in-ramsey-killing.html

[MCDRAW]

I have one of my four that can snow me, the little white lie stuff. The other's I can tell in an instant when they are fibbing. It scares me I can't tell very well with the other. :eek:


I have one like that too. The truth always comes out but it takes me awhile.:rolleyes:

[Liz]

Just announced on Fox that Bill O'Reilly is going to re-examine Vermont's Sex Crime Laws.
Kudos to him!

[MCDRAW]

Someone on the previous thread had a question about Anniston, Alabama. John Mark Karr was from this area. Is Anniston near Cullinan?

http://starpolice.blogspot.com/2007/12/one-time-suspect-in-ramsey-killing.html


I think they are about 100 miles apart.

[Pinkhammer]

Except she wasn't even married to him yet.... she married him after he got out! And, IIRC, not long at all after he got out....so maybe they had become pen pals. Although, I believe they are both lifelong residents of the area.... probably already knew each other?

WHY would any woman with a young daughter at home marry a known sex offender AFTER he got out?

I believe we will learn soon that the two women, Denise and Cassandra, were also involved in the porn ring, and that they pimped their daughters to the step-fathers.

(My Opinion Only.)

[Pinkhammer]

I think they are about 100 miles apart.

Just a coincidental connection to Karr? Or is Alabama full of these perverts??

[Amster]

Oops, I said that. :iamashamed0005:

So sorrreee
:bowdown:

So much info. So little sleep.

Noooo....you were correct! It's in the affidavit!

:clap:

[Amster]

Not only did Denise marry the perv right after his release, IIRC, but he was still in "treatment" ......and molesting A.R. while in "treatment" which he passed with flying colors! :furious::furious:

[VTGirl007]

In my opinion, if this really happened then the "source" should be telling the F.B.I. this and not commenting on the computer. Second, if it happened and the "source" learned about it and didn't go to LE then they are just as guilty, IMO. People sometimes say they know something they don't just to get attention.

That may well be the case, and I can't say I disagree with you.

I'm simply pointing out that if there's someone out there who was in fact told this by Denise, LE might want to talk to them to see what else she knew, and when.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised to find that many people in town had heard about what was happening in this family and just wrote it off as a rumor or said nothing because they didn't want to get involved. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

[close_enough]

Even if AR said that she was holding tihngs for a friend, why wouldn't Denise call the friend's mother? I know that I would call AR's bluff because I would be quite suspicious of my young daughter running around with a towel on with my RSO husband in the house with her. Couple that with the other finds and the alarm bells would be sounding loudly.

I suspect that Denise was naive in that she probably questioned AR over and over again. AR is apparently an accomplished liar and probably convinced her mother that nothing was going on. The boyfriend was probably added to the mix and might have calmed the mother's suspicions. I wonder if the boyfriend was MJ's idea.

yikes!...i never thought of that...:eek:

[MCDRAW]

Just a coincidental connection to Karr? Or is Alabama full of these perverts??


I don't think Alabama has any more perverts than any other state. I think they just move from state to state.

[Liz]

Noooo....you were correct! It's in the affidavit!

:clap:

I am??? lol I thought that was what I'd read; but then, after your post, I thought I was getting confuzzled from TMI.

Well then, in that case ... :waitasec:
What a coinkydink that MJ was abusing his step-daughter for 5 yrs, and Gagnon just happened to have had 5 yrs worth of child porn. hmmmm .....

[VTGirl81]

WTG, Dark!! Amazing when we can't get one from the media! Great job! Cat will be out of the bag finally!
Thanks, Vermontn for letting us know.

Yes, he was on the front page of the Burlington Free Press again today. Sorry I couldn't scan it! Darn moving!

[close_enough]

The caffeine is beginning to work. ;)

I think I'd been ignoring facts that are now re-surfacing in my (small) mind lol .... that MJ was already in custody; that most likely LE were grilling RG using strong-armed type interrogation tactics. Probably playing one against the other and all. Added to the fact that RG was probably pretty stunned when they apprehended him that day. Kinda caught him with his pants down, so to speak. ;) He was probably freaking out, bigtime, and just spillin'!


Yep, I'm finally getting it. ;) Thanks to you, others here, and the caffeine!Thanks everyone! :)

it's helped me also!:D

[VTGirl81]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1060/78795388ex8.jpg

There ya go - the TN SO named Gagnon (http://www.ticic.state.tn.us/sorinternet/SOFind.aspx?strhold=n=gagnon)

Not sure if this was posted yet (I have a lot of catching up to do) but that is definitely NOT Raymond Gagnon. Raymond Gagnon actually has darker colored skin, similar to those of Middle Eastern heritage.

[philamena]

Not sure if this was posted yet (I have a lot of catching up to do) but that is definitely NOT Raymond Gagnon. Raymond Gagnon actually has darker colored skin, similar to those of Middle Eastern heritage.

And how do you know that?
None of US have seen his picture. We've only seen the sketch.

[Starr58]

Out of respect to Brooke I believe LE and the FBI are waiting until after the funeral before releasing any more info

RIP dear Brooke

[Liz]

it's helped me also!:D

:smiliecup:

Almost at full-functioning brain level now. lol

[Medea]

I think so too, I'd say they have a handle on what her COD is at this point but aren't going to release it until they're ready to file the murder charges.

Also, no reason to release it before her funeral, especially if its gruesome as some think.

I think she was strangled.

[VTGirl81]

Why not? She's married to him! :steamed:

If this were any of us and we TRULY did not know...wouldn't divorce papers have made their way to his cell by now? And wouldn't you want the world to know that you are not supporting this POS and that you are divorcing him ASAP!?

[close_enough]

Yes, he was on the front page of the Burlington Free Press again today. Sorry I couldn't scan it! Darn moving!

has a real picture been released of RG????

[VTGirl007]

And how do you know that?
None of US have seen his picture. We've only seen the sketch.

His picture has been on the cover of the Burlington Free Press twice now, I believe.

[Floh]

If this were any of us and we TRULY did not know...wouldn't divorce papers have made their way to his cell by now? And wouldn't you want the world to know that you are not supporting this POS and that you are divorcing him ASAP!?

I think i'd kill myself if i learned all this about my husband.

[philamena]

If this were any of us and we TRULY did not know...wouldn't divorce papers have made their way to his cell by now? And wouldn't you want the world to know that you are not supporting this POS and that you are divorcing him ASAP!?

Yes, indeedy.

[Adalena935]

I would think child porn sites work the same as regular porn sites, only more secret.
I imagine it would be like getting into any other pay site. Legit E-mail address and credit card.
I have never tried to find child porn sites. I guess you would start by changing your security level to none.

IMO

I was reading about some cases FBI and international LE have worked on in the past and they operate in news groups with codes. The most informative article I found regarding how they operate was an affidavit by FBI but in parts it's so disturbingly graphic. I'm afraid to post the link.

It's a case out of Georgia; Bart Husky child porn case. Walker county messenger is the publication that published the affidavit telling about the codes and how they escape detection by LE. It's on the FBI's web site so I guess it's okay to google it. I was a type of net nanny when the net first started and I have to tell you; my idea of child abuse was using a bad word for a child to see. I'm really shocked and sickened by what goes on. These people are the worst of the worst.

[Liz]

Not sure if this was posted yet (I have a lot of catching up to do) but that is definitely NOT Raymond Gagnon. Raymond Gagnon actually has darker colored skin, similar to those of Middle Eastern heritage.


Nope, no one has posted about this pic who has seen RG's pic yet.
Thanks, VTGirl.

[philamena]

His picture has been on the cover of the Burlington Free Press twice now, I believe.


Gosh, could you PLEASE bring it here?
We've been looking for his picture since this first happened. We have no idea what he looks like.
TIA.

[becca]

I think i'd kill myself if i learned all this about my husband.

after I offed him...

[MCDRAW]

If this were any of us and we TRULY did not know...wouldn't divorce papers have made their way to his cell by now? And wouldn't you want the world to know that you are not supporting this POS and that you are divorcing him ASAP!?


Maybe she's thinking there's no hurry...he isn't getting out any time soon, hopefully never.

[Medea]

it seems to me there are two classes of child porn makers...there are the amateurs who abuse people around them and post pictures or film and/or trade them among small groups...this is what I think Jacques and Gagnon were doing....then there are the professionals who are organized and are making large quantities of child porn, the people that are running the web sites and making the real money. to me, it appears that nobody ever gets caught except the amateurs.

[close_enough]

His picture has been on the cover of the Burlington Free Press twice now, I believe.

dang!...why hasn't it been posted here?....is this probably the picture that DS is going to post, when she gets home from work?

[VTGirl007]

Gosh, could you PLEASE bring it here?
We've been looking for his picture since this first happened. We have no idea what he looks like.
TIA.

If I had a scanner, I would! I have no idea why they haven't had a photo of him on their website yet. I just tried a google images search but all I found was some football coach who doesn't look to be the same guy.

[philamena]

Vermont must be a sex offenders dream. If I lived there I'd ask wtf is going on!
http://www.sexcriminals.com/registration-notification/us/vermont/
Check this out:
Vermont Sex Offender Registry

Overview


Access to sex offender information in Vermont is provided to the public as the result of the Jacob Wetterling Registration Act, which was passed by the United States Congress and Megan's Law, which requires states to release relevant information about registered offenders to protect the public.

Access Type / NotificationAvailableCommunity notification?No
Online searchable directory?No
Online browseable directory? No
Online maps of offender residence locations? No
Information available by visit to law enforcement agency? No
Information available by phone? No

[Adalena935]

I think so too, I'd say they have a handle on what her COD is at this point but aren't going to release it until they're ready to file the murder charges.

Also, no reason to release it before her funeral, especially if its gruesome as some think.

I think she was strangled.

Yes, that's what he did to his victim yrs ago & went to prison for. rope around her neck. Altho, a knife is a fairly safe guess too since he's said to have threatened that also in this case. Past acts is always a fairly good indicator of future behavior.

[close_enough]

If I had a scanner, I would! I have no idea why they haven't had a photo of him on their website yet. I just tried a google images search but all I found was some football coach who doesn't look to be the same guy.

oooh, ok....i see you're talking about the paper itself:)

this has got to be the pic that DS will share with us....imo

[VTGirl81]

And how do you know that?
None of US have seen his picture. We've only seen the sketch.

Because, as I have mentioned numerous times, his picture has been on the front page of the Burlington Free Press on Sunday and again today. I am local and I know someone who works at the paper...trust me, this is not him.

[philamena]

If I had a scanner, I would! I have no idea why they haven't had a photo of him on their website yet. I just tried a google images search but all I found was some football coach who doesn't look to be the same guy.

VTGirl,
Can you post a link to the article??

[close_enough]

Yes, that's what he did to his victim yrs ago & went to prison for. rope around her neck. Altho, a knife is a fairly safe guess too since he's said to have threatened that also in this case. Past acts is always a fairly good indicator of future behavior.

yeah, as it escalates....:(

[edgeofnight]

Some people for what ever reason knowing allow child rapists into their home. While visiting my dad last Nov in Wisconsin, he mentioned the lady across the street who is in her 40s with a teen daughter and 8 year old son who I have known many, many years has this guy who lives around the corner come everyday and do chores. I became curious when my dad said he can't ever see his kids. I looked up RSO and sure enough he had raped a very young girl. I made copies of everything and talked to one family who is friends with my dad who have a small girl. She called his probation officer who said don't worry he won't do anything unless he becomes very familiar with the child. To make a long story short he is still doing chores for the widowed woman she is aware of what he did, but it is obvious she doesn't care she just needs to get all her work done. I did my best, but it just doesn't seem to register. I have been so worried something is going to happen and I guess no one else is. It makes me so sick.

[Chica]

Gosh, could you PLEASE bring it here?
We've been looking for his picture since this first happened. We have no idea what he looks like.
TIA.

Unfortunately, I believe she stated yesterday that she recently moved and her scanner is not set up yet. Dark Shadows said she has a pic that she will post when she gets home today!

[Liz]

has a real picture been released of RG????


I think that's how Dark_shadows has the pic that she is going to scan for us later.

[Amster]

I've searched all over the Burlington Free Press and can't find a pic of Gagnon....maybe the online version is different than the paper version.

[VTGirl81]

Unfortunately, I believe she stated yesterday that she recently moved and her scanner is not set up yet. Dark Shadow said she has a pic that she will post when she gets home today!

Yes, Chica, that is correct. Thank you.:blowkiss:

[Medea]

Yes, that's what he did to his victim yrs ago & went to prison for. rope around her neck. Altho, a knife is a fairly safe guess too since he's said to have threatened that also in this case. Past acts is always a fairly good indicator of future behavior.


Possibly, but given his elaborate cover up plans, I don't think he used knife...too much blood. I think she was dead within a very short time, and that he intended to hold her hostage..move to her Texas, Alabama, the sugar shack, who knows, I don't think he intended her to be dead on the 25th and I think she was.

My top two guesses are strangulation or blunt force trauma to the head.

I'm hoping that more grotesque ideas of her death are not true.

[VTGirl81]

Does DS get out of work late? I could take a picture of the picture with my digital camera...at least it would be something until DS can get a better picture.

[Liz]

has a real picture been released of RG????

I think that's how Dark_shadows has the pic that she is goinn to scan for us later.

Eta: Philamena, apparently from what I understand it isn't provided in the online edition.

[philamena]

Because, as I have mentioned numerous times, his picture has been on the front page of the Burlington Free Press on Sunday and again today. I am local and I know someone who works at the paper...trust me, this is not him.

Sorry, I must have missed your post.

[Liz]

Does DS get out of work late? I could take a picture of the picture with my digital camera...at least it would be something until DS can get a better picture.


I don't think we know when DS gets off work but I say "Go for it, VTGirl"!!
We're sitting here on the edges of our seats waiting to see that pos of a perp!

[Chica]

Does DS get out of work late? I could take a picture of the picture with my digital camera...at least it would be something until DS can get a better picture.

I say YOU GO GIRL!! :blowkiss:

[close_enough]

Does DS get out of work late? I could take a picture of the picture with my digital camera...at least it would be something until DS can get a better picture.

it would work for me, till DS gets here:)

[VTGirl007]

Vermont must be a sex offenders dream. If I lived there I'd ask wtf is going on!
http://www.sexcriminals.com/registration-notification/us/vermont/
Check this out:
Vermont Sex Offender Registry

Overview


Access to sex offender information in Vermont is provided to the public as the result of the Jacob Wetterling Registration Act, which was passed by the United States Congress and Megan's Law, which requires states to release relevant information about registered offenders to protect the public.

Access Type / NotificationAvailableCommunity notification?No
Online searchable directory?No
Online browseable directory? No
Online maps of offender residence locations? No
Information available by visit to law enforcement agency? No
Information available by phone? No

Yes, it is searchable: http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/

An example of Vermont favoring criminal rights over child safety:

A RSO, convicted of lewd and lascivious conduct w/a child is living next to the busiest bus stop in our little town, where young boys and girls in the 8-12 age range walk by his house, which is right on the road, to get home every day. he moved here after being run out of his home town. I only knew because my friend told me, and sure enough, he's in the registry.

it's wretched enough to allow someone convicted of that kind of crime to live next door to the bus stop, but they didn't even TELL US. I have always picked my kids up at the bus, but there are many who just assume it's safe here and make them walk home and stay alone until they get home from work. Ugh.

[philamena]

Lots of pics, not ONE of Gagnon. grrrrr
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BT&Date=20080702&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=807020801&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=11

[MCDRAW]

Some people for what ever reason knowing allow child rapists into their home. While visiting my dad last Nov in Wisconsin, he mentioned the lady across the street who is in her 40s with a teen daughter and 8 year old son who I have known many, many years has this guy who lives around the corner come everyday and do chores. I became curious when my dad said he can't ever see his kids. I looked up RSO and sure enough he had raped a very young girl. I made copies of everything and talked to one family who is friends with my dad who have a small girl. She called his probation officer who said don't worry he won't do anything unless he becomes very familiar with the child. To make a long story short he is still doing chores for the widowed woman she is aware of what he did, but it is obvious she doesn't care she just needs to get all her work done. I did my best, but it just doesn't seem to register. I have been so worried something is going to happen and I guess no one else is. It makes me so sick.


My neighbor let the RSO convince her he was innocent. I think their mentatlity is it won't happen to us.

[Amster]

I've searched about 20 other sites that are talking about this case....nobody has a pic of Gagnon.....isn't that strange?? Especially, if his pic has been out there since Sunday!!

WS might be the first!!

[Medea]

Does NO ONE feel squeemish about putting the name of Jacques sister, an alleged vicim of child rape on this board or the name of an alleged boyfriend of AR's who are not known to have any connection with this crime????

[close_enough]

Yes, it is searchable: http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/

An example of Vermont favoring criminal rights over child safety:

A RSO, convicted of lewd and lascivious conduct w/a child is living next to the busiest bus stop in our little town, where young boys and girls in the 8-12 age range walk by his house, which is right on the road, to get home every day. he moved here after being run out of his home town. I only knew because my friend told me, and sure enough, he's in the registry.

it's wretched enough to allow someone convicted of that kind of crime to live next door to the bus stop, but they didn't even TELL US. I have always picked my kids up at the bus, but there are many who just assume it's safe here and make them walk home and stay alone until they get home from work. Ugh.

oh yeah...some laws really need to be changed there in VT:(
...i just noticed phil's post within yours.....

[jnodrog]

Does NO ONE feel squeemish about putting the name of Jacques sister, an alleged vicim of child rape on this board or the name of an alleged boyfriend of AR's who are not known to have any connection with this crime????
his sisters name has already been posted more than once, and the BF may definetly be involved.
i think we were looking for all information and possibilities.

Allen

[jnodrog]

the name Corey is also mentioned in an email, in one of the affidavits.....
yep and she did have a BF with that name, just not sure if that is now.

Allen

[Jaded]

I was reading about some cases FBI and international LE have worked on in the past and they operate in news groups with codes. The most informative article I found regarding how they operate was an affidavit by FBI but in parts it's so disturbingly graphic. I'm afraid to post the link.

It's a case out of Georgia; Bart Husky child porn case. Walker county messenger is the publication that published the affidavit telling about the codes and how they escape detection by LE. It's on the FBI's web site so I guess it's okay to google it. I was a type of net nanny when the net first started and I have to tell you; my idea of child abuse was using a bad word for a child to see. I'm really shocked and sickened by what goes on. These people are the worst of the worst.

You're not kidding. I found the article, and am beyond disgusted.

[Medea]

his sisters name has already been posted more than once, and the BF may definetly be involved.
i think we were looking for all information and possibilities.

Allen


Speaking for myself, I think its wrong to drag in the names of minor sex crime victims onto a public board and I think its wrong to put the name of any current or former boyfriend of AR on a public board, whether or not its public record or easy to find or on myspace and I'm not too comfortable with assuming that just because Person A has the last name of Person B that they are related.

But, that's just me.

[TisHerself]

He appears to have been more concerned about Brooke's mother and sister than he was about his wife, and frankly I can see why if she bought the story that her daughter was holding sex toys "for a friend". I would love to have seen the look on the investigators' faces when she came out with that one.


Huh? What? She told them AR was holding sex toys for a friend?:bang:

[jnodrog]

his sisters name has already been posted more than once, and the BF may definetly be involved.
i think we were looking for all information and possibilities.

Allen
i belive on top of that someone posted her husbands myspace profile back a while ago.


Allen

[close_enough]

Does NO ONE feel squeemish about putting the name of Jacques sister, an alleged vicim of child rape on this board or the name of an alleged boyfriend of AR's who are not known to have any connection with this crime????

wellllll, yeah a bit......but i don't want to know AR's sisters' name though...

[VTGirl81]

OK, it's coming up! Do I have to load it into photobucket or something first or can I just upload it straight to here?

TIA!

[jnodrog]

wellllll, yeah a bit......but i don't want to know AR's sisters' name though...
and i said i would not post that even though i know it.
on top of all this my niece was murdered in Barre at age 15 and ive been through all this they need to fry the ppl.

Allen

[TisHerself]

It's probably not so much that they're stupid but that their 'addiction' is so out of control that they take greater & greater risks.

Yep! that's why he planned on torturing and killing Brooke it was the next step in his sick addiction!

[lizzybeth]

I've been following this since Brooke went missing. I'm trying really hard to keep up but on busy days I just can't. Can someone tell where the nfo is about MJ's sister and father?

[VTGirl81]

Hmmm...it won't let me insert an image.

[MCDRAW]

Does NO ONE feel squeemish about putting the name of Jacques sister, an alleged vicim of child rape on this board or the name of an alleged boyfriend of AR's who are not known to have any connection with this crime????


We are protecting AR, we should protect the others.

[Spazkat9696]

Hmmm...it won't let me insert an image.

Uplode it to photobucket then post it to WS from photobucket

[jnodrog]

well AR name was posted back day 1 almost i think we all know it, as was the others.
my info came fist hand from someone who actually spoke to a family member only a few days ago.
I am local to this and the town is right next door.
i refuse to be the one to be blamed for putting out info.
so as a local person i will not post anymore information i recieve.

Allen

[VTGirl81]

Let's try this...

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h129/amorgan8173/BFPPhoto-GoodQuality.jpg

[Amster]

I think everyone here has been careful with naming juveniles. Some of us have known who A.R. is since almost the beginning of this horror....and to my knowledge, nobody has used her name.

[believe09]

I'm trying to catch up here, so please forgive me if someone else has pointed this out:
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

in the comments, someone knows (from a source they refuse to quote) that Denise walked in on MJ and AR in the act and walked out and never said anything. Seems to me that LE should be tracking that commenter down and finding out who that source is and what else Denise has told them. IMO, if she knew what was happening and did nothing she's just as guilty as the rest of them.

The same whistle blower commentator of the Denise catching AR and MJ also stated that MJ's relative (the one assaulted by him whom we are assuming is his sister) committed suicide.

[MCDRAW]

his sisters name has already been posted more than once, and the BF may definetly be involved.
i think we were looking for all information and possibilities.

Allen


AR is definitly involved but we use her initials. I think we should protect juvenile 2 the same as juvenile 1. So far, to me, it looks like they were using him to frame him for Brooke's murder. He should be protected, IMO.

[Amster]

Let's try this...

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h129/amorgan8173/BFPPhoto-GoodQuality.jpg

:woohoo:

THANK YOU!!

[galvino]

Thanks VTGirl007!

Creepy that in this picture he doesn't look, well, creepy!

Uncle Creepy sure does tho!

[philamena]

Thank you VTGirl81.:blowkiss:

Finally a face to the perv. :furious:

[MistyGirl]

AR is definitly involved but we use her initials. I think we should protect juvenile 2 the same as juvenile 1. So far, to me, it looks like they were using him to frame him for Brooke's murder. He should be protected, IMO.

I agree but isn't "AR" the same as "Juvenile 1" and "Juvenile 2" is another minor NOT AR or Juvenile 1??????????????????????????????

[Medea]

AR is definitly involved but we use her initials. I think we should protect juvenile 2 the same as juvenile 1. So far, to me, it looks like they were using him to frame him for Brooke's murder. He should be protected, IMO.

I agree. I just don't approve of using people's real names when we are speculating about what happened to them, whether they ever dated AR, and so forth. All that does then is motivate people to get the full name, then look them up, then dig into their myspace page, then look them up to see if they have any arrest record, look up their family...and ALL they may have done is happen to have dated this poor girl in the past, or not....

But, I'm a big believer in privacy and I don't think these kids have any clue of the ramifications of the stuff that they post on myspace and facebook.

End of rant.

[Spazkat9696]

I agree but isn't "AR" the same as "Juvenile 1" and "Juvenile 2" is another minor NOT AR or Juvenile 1??????????????????????????????


I'm pretty sure AR and Juv 1 are the same person

[VTGirl81]

Thanks VTGirl007!

Creepy that in this picture he doesn't look, well, creepy!

Uncle Creepy sure does tho!


Actually, there are two of us VTGirl's on here...myself (VTGirl81) and then VTGirl007...we are two different people. Just wanted to let everyone know that it's not the same person! :)

[nanandjim]

...He was already implicated in a child's murder with a live child saying the killer and he had sexually assaulted her under threat of death of she and her mother. That carries the death penalty by federal law.
Wasn't this a "he said/she said" type of situation? Do you think that there may be proof in the form of photos of the tryst? If not, why couldn't RG just deny his participation?

Surely, they have something on him to make him just confess to raping a young girl and possessing child porn. Why didn't he get rid of everything after MJ called him?

[Chica]

well AR name was posted back day 1 almost i think we all know it, as was the others.
my info came fist hand from someone who actually spoke to a family member only a few days ago.
I am local to this and the town is right next door.
i refuse to be the one to be blamed for putting out info.
so as a local person i will not post anymore information i recieve.

Allen

Actually Allen, I have seen AR's name several times on this Board and elsewhere. I don't think there is a problem naming names, as you always make it clear that it is 'what you heard'. I personally appreciate receiving information from a local - thank you!!

[MCDRAW]

well AR name was posted back day 1 almost i think we all know it, as was the others.
my info came fist hand from someone who actually spoke to a family member only a few days ago.
I am local to this and the town is right next door.
i refuse to be the one to be blamed for putting out info.
so as a local person i will not post anymore information i recieve.

Allen


I don't think anyone was blaming you. I know I wasn't blaming you. I just hate it when juvenile's names are released. The associated press is the worst...they say we don't name sexual assault victims but their names have already been in the press so here their names are again. Please continue to post what info. you get.

[VTGirl007]

Thanks VTGirl007!

Creepy that in this picture he doesn't look, well, creepy!

Uncle Creepy sure does tho!

It was actually VTGirl81 who posted the photo- I didn't notice that there was another VTGirl here before I registered- my bad.

[believe09]

Does NO ONE feel squeemish about putting the name of Jacques sister, an alleged vicim of child rape on this board or the name of an alleged boyfriend of AR's who are not known to have any connection with this crime????

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I think that this case has pushed all of us to the edge for sure; however I have to remind myself that the the named perps are MJ and RG for now. Speculation about who might be next to be named is appropriate of course, but the rest are victims-some by action, some by inaction...I think we have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to bashing them.

TOS does not allow us to post the names of people who are not attributed with the commission of the crime unless they have been named by the public media and you can show a link, I believe.....

[MCDRAW]

I agree but isn't "AR" the same as "Juvenile 1" and "Juvenile 2" is another minor NOT AR or Juvenile 1??????????????????????????????


Juvenile 2 is the boyfriend.

[close_enough]

You're not kidding. I found the article, and am beyond disgusted.

same here, jaded:mad:

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/06/17/child_porn_arrest.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newsta b

thank goodness, the FBI isn't through investigating the "tara series".....

[fran]

That photo of RG doesn't look at all like the sketch we saw the other day. Wonder how long ago that picture was taken?

Interesting,
fran

[Chica]

Actually Allen, I have seen AR's name several times on this Board and elsewhere. I don't think there is a problem naming names, as you always make it clear that it is 'what you heard'. I personally appreciate receiving information from a local - thank you!!

Plus - you didn't say the last name!
:)

[VTGirl007]

The same whistle blower commentator of the Denise catching AR and MJ also stated that MJ's relative (the one assaulted by him whom we are assuming is his sister) committed suicide.

Well, as I said, it could be BS and it could be useful. Just thought that it may warrant a mention.

[VTNance]

I agree but isn't "AR" the same as "Juvenile 1" and "Juvenile 2" is another minor NOT AR or Juvenile 1??????????????????????????????

AR is the same as Juvenile 1. Juvenile 2 is a boyfriend of AR's.


Does anyone know if AR had ever met Brooke's stepfather, Gagnon? Would she have known him, or known him from pictures seen at Brooke's house? Or did he mostly stay down in Alabama?? MJ and RG were gaslighting her with the "Raoul" character....she seemed to think she was in love with him. RG could have "played the part" of Raoul when he showed up in Royalton or wherever else they did their nasty business, and poor AR would have thought that this was her wonderful top-secret spy boyfriend that she rarely got to see. Just another level of deception and manipulation to be sick over, if so.

[SailorMoon]

Good job. Sure looks like the SO in Tenn could be his brother, that's for sure....Hmmmm....looks like your average every day Joe. I've been thinking a lot about how someone said, the boogeyman doesn't look like a boogeyman, but the person next door. Whoa.

Let's try this...

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h129/amorgan8173/BFPPhoto-GoodQuality.jpg

[close_enough]

thanks VTGirl!....you did great with your digital!....you can even read the line under the pictures.....& he fits the sketch...

[Chica]

Good job. Sure looks like the SO in Tenn could be his brother, that's for sure....Hmmmm....looks like your average every day Joe. I've been thinking a lot about how someone said, the boogeyman doesn't look like a boogeyman, but the person next door. Whoa.

You are not a-kidding! VTgirl - thank you so much for the pic - I just never imagined he would look so 'normal'!! He really does look like the 'guy next door' . . .:eek:

[Tom'sGirl]

Let's try this...
Thank you so much for doing this for us VTGirl81! :smoochiesmilie:

I've posted your scanned photo on the Photo Link

[w1df10wr]

Thank you VTGirl81 :)

[VTGirl81]

thanks VTGirl!....you did great with your digital!....you can even read the line under the pictures.....& he fits the sketch...

Glad to help! :blowkiss:

[Liz]

Thanks for the pic, VTGirl81!
Allen, and other locals, please do keep providing the local info you get!
:blowkiss:

Scary how normal Gagnon looks!

[pjop]

There is a picture of Denise Jacques, who was present in court yesterday at this link :

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL


Could someone post this picture in the Photo Thread? thxs


Wow. You know how you picture somebody in your mind? This is not how I pictured she would look.

[close_enough]

That photo of RG doesn't look at all like the sketch we saw the other day. Wonder how long ago that picture was taken?

Interesting,
fran

oooh, see i think it does....from what we see from an almost side-view in the sketch...i'd say the picture wasn't taken real recently...but who knows?

[Jaded]

You are not a-kidding! VTgirl - thank you so much for the pic - I just never imagined he would look so 'normal'!! He really does look like the 'guy next door' . . .:eek:

That's the frightening thing...you just don't know who is a sicko. Stranger Danger is the guy next door, or Uncle Creepy.

[TisHerself]

That may well be the case, and I can't say I disagree with you.

I'm simply pointing out that if there's someone out there who was in fact told this by Denise, LE might want to talk to them to see what else she knew, and when.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised to find that many people in town had heard about what was happening in this family and just wrote it off as a rumor or said nothing because they didn't want to get involved. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.


If this has been going on for 5 yrs in Denise's own home I do not believe for one second that she did not know about. Or that she did not walk in on something at any given time over those 6 yrs.

[texas48]

Juvie 1 was lied to from the time she was 9 yrs old.
She is now 14 yrs old does anyone know her birth date? When she'd be 15?

I understand she was lied to for 5 yrs. / I also understand the mental abuse she was under. But at what age would she become an accomplice? I don't buy the fact she just did what she was told to do by MJ & others & that Breckenridge was a government organization.

She was having sex with MJ / her boyfriend / & apparently whoever else she was told to have sex with. I find this hard to believe, am I the only one?Checko1...Here I am! I totally agree with you. And please don't call me heartless for not buying into the fact AR is 100% victim here. She was a victim at age 9. I am a grandmother of 7 and these kids are my world. God forbid ANYONE having any part in hurting them in any way. AR could have done alot to prevent Brooke from being hurt/killed.

[DeltaDawn]

AR is definitly involved but we use her initials. I think we should protect juvenile 2 the same as juvenile 1. So far, to me, it looks like they were using him to frame him for Brooke's murder. He should be protected, IMO.

If Juvenile 2 is 18, then he is in alot of trouble. An 18 year old should not be having sex with a 14 year old. I don't need to know his name. I can only imagine what type of 18 year old he must be to hang out with this family. It sounds to me like the whole town knew these people had a past history of sexual abuse. If he is 18 I would imagine he is cooperating fully with LE.

[close_enough]

and i said i would not post that even though i know it.on top of all this my niece was murdered in Barre at age 15 and ive been through all this they need to fry the ppl.

Allen