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SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:07 AM
Please continue here...

LaLaw2000
07-08-2008, 02:11 AM
Thanks, SS!

w1df10wr
07-08-2008, 02:11 AM
Thank you SS for starting the new thread :)

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:13 AM
You are welcome! :)

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:16 AM
This is only going to work if the live feed is on-going and someone called LE to tip it and they will trace the DNS and ip address where it is hosted so they can tapped on it - more on hack the server where the feed is on-going. But other than that, it is Goodluck because Internet provider dont log any data on any data transfers.So then there would be no real way to trace it unless it was caught live. Interesting.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:18 AM
Don't you have to have a provider for the feed? For example there is SKPE, or Yahoo IM...they have the ability to live chat. You can record not only what is being shown on the feed, via skype, but instantly a log is created of the event....LE could at least find that...I don't think the live adult porn sites use the normal routes for their webcams, do they? Anyone know what they set those up with?

eris
07-08-2008, 02:19 AM
So then there would be no real way to trace it unless it was caught live. Interesting.

Yep. No feed No IP Address No Hack :eek: I mean NO Trace ehehehe

LaLaw2000
07-08-2008, 02:20 AM
You know, I have been wondering if AR actually wrote those emails. He could have had his work computer right by his desktop and answered himself. He is one sick POS.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:20 AM
Not really you can establish your own server. SKYPE or Yahoo are the hosting servers. You can create your own dedicated server.This answers my last question then. Thanks!

LaLaw2000
07-08-2008, 02:21 AM
Yep. No feed No IP Address No Hack :eek: I mean NO Trace ehehehe

I see your new sig line, eris! LOL

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:21 AM
You know, I have been wondering if AR actually wrote those emails. He could have had his work computer right by his desktop and answered himself. He is one sick POS.LE verified through the interview with AR this wasn't the case.

eris
07-08-2008, 02:22 AM
I don't think the live adult porn sites use the normal routes for their webcams, do they? Anyone know what they set those up with?


No they wont use it. Not unless they are just possibly starting their business and would like to sort on freebies but the quality of the feed isnt going to worth it for the maniac to pay as there are cheap women already doing the "show" for free on Yahoo Live Chats :eek:

DianeB
07-08-2008, 02:23 AM
One person I don't think I've seen mentioned is AR's birth father. If the information on veromi is correct, he's also in Randolph.

Where was he when all of this was going on?

eris
07-08-2008, 02:24 AM
I see your new sig line, eris! LOL

:) I know what you mean dear !

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:24 AM
However, someone doing child porn wouldn't need to invest a lot except to avoid detection by LE. People would still pay big bucks to watch child porn live no matter how lousy the feed was.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:26 AM
One person I don't think I've seen mentioned is AR's birth father. If the information on veromi is correct, he's also in Randolph.

Where was he when all of this was going on?We would all like to know the answer to that question, too. And where is he now? He isn't screaming at the top of his lungs about his child being severely abused, raped, and dragging her to live with him to get her away from Denise. It is odd.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:30 AM
They don't even have to use a computer. They can hook up to a 360 type console.
Watch right on their Plasma TVs.

IMOGood point! I had no clue it was so easy for them to get away with such stuff. I never thought about any of this before either! It is so disturbing when you really sit down and realize what these perps are doing out there daily.

eris
07-08-2008, 02:32 AM
However, someone doing child porn wouldn't need to invest a lot except to avoid detection by LE. People would still pay big bucks to watch child porn live no matter how lousy the feed was.


My opinion here is Jacques have a digital/video cam that has a lot of memory - videotaped it - connect the cam to the PC - load the video on the PC - he has a software to edit the video - and then Burn it on a DVD/CD Burner and give his friends and customers a copy . If it is just a quick video then sending them through FTP , IRC or some software for file transfers is good enough. They can meet on one IRC room and download/upload it to one another and bam - no traces of any transfers in the PC. Only the video itself will just prove that the data was transferred from one another IMO.

LaLaw2000
07-08-2008, 02:32 AM
LE verified through the interview with AR this wasn't the case.

:(

I suppose I was hoping that it somehow was Jacques. Somehow.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:35 AM
There are just so many easy ways for them to transfer this horrible stuff around the internet and around their circles. No wonder so very few get caught and by the time they do...like Gagnon...they have done it for years and years.

Carrington
07-08-2008, 02:36 AM
Thanks for the new thread SS
I got carried away on the old one..LOL

To bad Denise wasn't smart enough to hook up her own camera while she was at work. Funny (not ha ha) she seems to have a decent job.....
IMO

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:38 AM
You are welcome, Carrington! (Maybe Ad needs to lock the other one)

They do seem to have respectable jobs. All of them. Doesn't make them respectable people tho.

Denise could have watched it live and probably denied it was happening. (Oh wait...she almost did! The towel incident! She sure did not miss it by much.)

LaLaw2000
07-08-2008, 02:38 AM
There are just so many easy ways for them to transfer this horrible stuff around the internet and around their circles. No wonder so very few get caught and by that time...like Gagnon...they have done it for years and years.

I remember Denise saying in regard to Raymond - "He is very booksmart", didn't she? I remember thinking that it was a really strange remark. Almost as if - well was - complimenting him.
There is no telling what all has been going on. These sisters are crazy.

eris
07-08-2008, 02:39 AM
Is there any possibility that AR and Brooke isnt really watching TV before Jacques called Brooke to go upstairs but they are taking some "drugs" ? Maybe Jacques was telling LE an alibi that Brooke died accidentally because of the "drugs" that AR and her are taking so LE now are waiting also for toxicology reports ? I dont hear a bloody report when brooke's body was found so i was trying to look for some cause of death?

Carrington
07-08-2008, 02:40 AM
You are welcome, Carrington! (Maybe Ad needs to lock the other one)

They do seem to have respectable jobs. All of them. Doesn't make them respectable people tho.

Denise could have watched it live and probably denied it was happening. (Oh wait...she almost did!)

Do we know what Cassandra does? Or does RG support the family?
So many dang questions. :confused:

eris
07-08-2008, 02:41 AM
I remember Denise saying in regard to Raymond - "He is very booksmart", didn't she? I remember thinking that it was a really strange remark. Almost as if - well was - complimenting him.
There is no telling what all has been going on. These sisters are crazy.

Yeah he said Ray is an intelligent person and a book smart - so what's wrong with him? why did they divorce? Why did they ( Cassandra and kids ) come back to Vermont?

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:43 AM
My theory is that when AR and MJ picked Brooke up again after the store, they started in with the mental torture of her. Telling her what was to come and starting to build the fear.

I don't believe drugs are involved because as sick as MJ is...he wanted her to be "alert" to feel the torture and to be able to struggle.

I don't believe AR's account of what happened when they got back to the house...only they did go back there and Brooke never left the property.

The cause of death may never be known. However, if his fantasy had to do with the 1985 conviction...I would suspect a knife was used.

eris
07-08-2008, 02:44 AM
Thanks for the new thread SS
I got carried away on the old one..LOL

To bad Denise wasn't smart enough to hook up her own camera while she was at work. Funny (not ha ha) she seems to have a decent job.....
IMO

Who knows maybe she's watching those videos too but she didnt realize that the star of the show is her own kid - Ooops IMO. :eek:

LaLaw2000
07-08-2008, 02:44 AM
Do we know what Cassandra does? Or does RG support the family?
So many dang questions. :confused:

I haven't heard where Cassandra works, or if she did work. The only times I have seen her was when she wasn't making any sense and would have done better having kept her mouth shut!
I am sure the FBI have looked into the financial situation of all involved.

LaLaw2000
07-08-2008, 02:45 AM
Who knows maybe she's watching those videos too but she didnt realize that the star of the show is her own kid - Ooops IMO. :eek:

:eek:

LaLaw2000
07-08-2008, 02:46 AM
See everyone tomorrow! I am old and need to try to go back to sleep!

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:47 AM
Do we know what Cassandra does? Or does RG support the family?
So many dang questions. :confused:You aren't the only one confused on this issue. If it has been mentioned what she does, I have forgotten it.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 02:50 AM
Frankly, as perverse as both of their husbands are...wouldn't this mean it was reflected along the way in their sex lives in the many years they were with them?

w1df10wr
07-08-2008, 02:54 AM
My theory is that when AR and MJ picked Brooke up again after the store, they started in with the mental torture of her. Telling her what was to come and starting to build the fear.

I don't believe drugs are involved because as sick as MJ is...he wanted her to be "alert" to feel the torture and to be able to struggle.

I don't believe AR's account of what happened when they got back to the house...only they did go back there and Brooke never left the property.

The cause of death may never be known. However, if his fantasy had to do with the 1985 conviction...I would suspect a knife was used.

That's a good theory, SS.

Good night all!

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 03:20 AM
As I was saying;

It's not as if global child pornography law enforcement hits a time clock and they all start work at the same time & have global quitting time

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 03:23 AM
Frankly, as perverse as both of their husbands are...wouldn't this mean it was reflected along the way in their sex lives in the many years they were with them?

Nobody knew who BTK killer was. Including his wife. I have no idea but I think men like have the ability to compartmentalize dif aspects of themselves. Look at all the people like BTK who hide in plain site for yrs. When they get caught their best friends, neighbors, church deacons are shocked.

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 03:25 AM
I don't know how anyone can live in the same house with men who collect all this child porn and feign not knowing though. That I do not buy.

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 03:31 AM
I was thinking he was making DVD's but I wouldn't put live feed past him.

Busylady
07-08-2008, 03:39 AM
BURLINGTON, Vt. (AP) - The former stepfather of a 12-year-old Vermont girl found dead last week faces a child pornography charge in Alabama.
Raymond Gagnon allegedly had child pornography images on a computer in the Cullman home where he used to live. The images were stored on or around June 26, the U.S. attorney's office said today.

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8629279

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 04:06 AM
Thanks Busylady. Someone in the previous thread posted this link and it has some additional info. One of Barksdale's relatives who lives near the home saw Gagnon taking Computers into the residence. I hope the affidavit is available online tomorrow.

http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_189231932.html (http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_189231932.html)

The document also reveals that a former co-worker of Gagnon, Bill Barksdale, contacted authorities after seeing a TV report on Gagnon’s charges to inform them Gagnon owned a home in Cullman.

VTGirl81
07-08-2008, 04:17 AM
Thanks for the new thread SS. I posted a couple of times on the old one, as I didn't see it locked and didn't skip ahead to the end (trying to catch up). Sorry about that!

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 04:50 AM
I've been reading around on the net about how the FBI tracks these people. I'm appalled at how this child porn swapping on the net has snowballed. I had no idea it was so bad. I don't think I fully grasped the depravity. I don't know what would cause this sickness. Some of the people arrested have been professional people, school administrators. Law enforcement needs to get more funding to have more task forces to track these crimes. I can't think of punishment harsh enough for these people. They all need to be taken out of society immediately. These poor children. Where are their Mothers?

http://www.asacp.org/page.php?content=news&item=2 (http://www.asacp.org/page.php?content=news&item=2)
NCMEC Says Child Porn Reports Up 39 Percent


ALEXANDRIA, Va. - Suspected child porn reports to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's CyberTipline (http://www.cybertipline.com/) jumped 39 percent in 2004, continuing a trend of increased such reporting yearly, the NCMEC said January 11.

angelwngs
07-08-2008, 07:35 AM
BURLINGTON, Vt. (AP) - The former stepfather of a 12-year-old Vermont girl found dead last week faces a child pornography charge in Alabama.
Raymond Gagnon allegedly had child pornography images on a computer in the Cullman home where he used to live. The images were stored on or around June 26, the U.S. attorney's office said today.

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8629279

OMG! Please tell me these are not images of Brooke being tortured...

Lola
07-08-2008, 07:52 AM
I keep thinking about the affidavit and how it was mentioned Brooke was a "problem". Savanna was called a nasty name. Did something happen between Brooke or Savanna & AR at school? MJ in his twisted mind, thought he could use that to control AR even more then he already was?

Bringing your previous post over w1df10wr, cause it's been bothering me as well. Something was up. Supposedly Cassandra and Denise were not speaking. Clearly Savanna was "on" to Jacques. Did Brooke know/suspect more about what was going on with AR...and she might tell??

As for Ray - my guess is that he and his pal Kevin shared their "interest" over the net and that they met online...next step, Ray moves to San Antonio so he and his pal can share more...:mad:

this whole thing is so sickening.

emanon7
07-08-2008, 07:52 AM
BURLINGTON, Vt. (AP) - The former stepfather of a 12-year-old Vermont girl found dead last week faces a child pornography charge in Alabama.
Raymond Gagnon allegedly had child pornography images on a computer in the Cullman home where he used to live. The images were stored on or around June 26, the U.S. attorney's office said today.

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8629279

I'm a new poster here and have read everything you guys have posted. You guys rock! Thank you to everyone for all the links, etc.

This article would indicate that RG carried flash drives on the flight and transferred the contents to computer(s) stored in the Cullman house before leaving for VT. Since there is no overt search in San Antonio's landfill for this safe that KG allegedly put in a dumpster, kindof leads me to think the FBI isn't believing KG's story.

As for RG at the Cullman Library, it's a very good thing that the library keeps some sort of a log of who is using their public access computers or they never would have been able to identify RG as the user.

becca
07-08-2008, 08:03 AM
I'm a new poster here and have read everything you guys have posted. You guys rock! Thank you to everyone for all the links, etc.

This article would indicate that RG carried flash drives on the flight and transferred the contents to computer(s) stored in the Cullman house before leaving for VT. Since there is no overt search in San Antonio's landfill for this safe that KG allegedly put in a dumpster, kindof leads me to think the FBI isn't believing KG's story.

As for RG at the Cullman Library, it's a very good thing that the library keeps some sort of a log of who is using their public access computers or they never would have been able to identify RG as the user.

I know that our libraries here only track if you use your Library Card to log in. If you get a visitor pass it has no idea who you are.... now did this mental giant actually log in with his own library card?

Starr58
07-08-2008, 08:10 AM
There is a picture of Denise Jacques, who was present in court yesterday at this link :

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL


Could someone post this picture in the Photo Thread? thxs

Taximom
07-08-2008, 08:12 AM
Do they track members at the Cullman library? Ours doesn't at all. I could sign in with a fake name if I wanted to. They don't even look at your library card here.

Starr58
07-08-2008, 08:15 AM
There is a SO on the Tennesee registry named Michael William Gagnon. The photo is of poor quality although. There is an resemblance to sketch of Gagnon.

http://www.ticic.state.tn.us/sorinternet/SOFind.aspx?strhold=n=gagnon

emanon7
07-08-2008, 08:21 AM
I know that our libraries here only track if you use your Library Card to log in. If you get a visitor pass it has no idea who you are.... now did this mental giant actually log in with his own library card?

Looks like the mental giant did use his card. From the internet usp policy at the Cullman Library...

"Users of public access computers in any county library facility must hold an active Cullman County Public Library System library card with active borrowing privileges. Officers-In-Charge may authorize exceptions to this rule."

http://www.ccpls.com/ccpls_policies.htm#internetaccess

VTNance
07-08-2008, 08:21 AM
Nobody knew who BTK killer was. Including his wife. I have no idea but I think men like have the ability to compartmentalize dif aspects of themselves. Look at all the people like BTK who hide in plain site for yrs. When they get caught their best friends, neighbors, church deacons are shocked.


But MJ had prior offenses and convictions, which were well known to the local population. Both women definitely knew about his past, even if he was hiding his perversity (not doing a very good job of it though, considering what DJ found on more than one occasion).

Taximom
07-08-2008, 08:25 AM
There is a SO on the Tennesee registry named Michael William Gagnon. The photo is of poor quality although. There is an resemblance to sketch of Gagnon.

http://www.ticic.state.tn.us/sorinternet/SOFind.aspx?strhold=n=gagnon

Man, there is a resemblance to that drawing. Why can't we have his current picture?!

Click on details at that link for a bigger pic. It says he's a violent offender. :eek: Why is he out? Raped a minor? This joke (whoever he is) should be locked up! :behindbar:behindbar

becca
07-08-2008, 08:33 AM
Looks like the mental giant did use his card. From the internet usp policy at the Cullman Library...

"Users of public access computers in any county library facility must hold an active Cullman County Public Library System library card with active borrowing privileges. Officers-In-Charge may authorize exceptions to this rule."

http://www.ccpls.com/ccpls_policies.htm#internetaccess

Why doesn't this surprise me ? RG used his own library card to log into the library system to play around with someone else's myspace account... this guy is not smart on any level... there is no way he's anything more than a pawn in someone else's game.

emanon7
07-08-2008, 08:39 AM
Why doesn't this surprise me ? RG used his own library card to log into the library system to play around with someone else's myspace account... this guy is not smart on any level... there is no way he's anything more than a pawn in someone else's game.

The policy also says "Through signature, all persons must agree to the Internet Access Policy every time the Internet is accessed."

I'd be interested to know if he signed his own name.

becca
07-08-2008, 08:43 AM
The policy also says "Through signature, all persons must agree to the Internet Access Policy every time the Internet is accessed."

I'd be interested to know if he signed his own name.

Wouldn't surprise me if he did.... after all he's proven himself not to be the sharpest tool in the shed.

Medea
07-08-2008, 08:57 AM
Why doesn't this surprise me ? RG used his own library card to log into the library system to play around with someone else's myspace account... this guy is not smart on any level... there is no way he's anything more than a pawn in someone else's game.


Neither is Jacques though. In fact, the very act of faking the myspace entries is what caused police to look at the computers in the first place.

Filly
07-08-2008, 09:08 AM
Man, there is a resemblance to that drawing. Why can't we have his current picture?!

Click on details at that link for a bigger pic. It says he's a violent offender. :eek: Why is he out? Raped a minor? This joke (whoever he is) should be locked up! :behindbar:behindbar

So should the other Michael Gagno's on the RSO. There's two Michael A's, and a Michael E, and a Michael Albert who isn't counted with the initial A only Gagnon's.

Man, I didn't think this was a common name and just under Michael I got them guys. They're in New Hampshire, North Carolina, Maine, and IN. There's probably a slew of them all over the place these people by this last name.:eek: Hope it's alright I chimed in.

Medea
07-08-2008, 09:16 AM
O/T: Hans Reiser who had nothing to do with his wife's disappearance just led police to where he burried her body....ho hum, another wrongly accused and convicted man turns out to be guilty after all.

Amster
07-08-2008, 09:25 AM
There is a picture of Denise Jacques, who was present in court yesterday at this link :

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL


Could someone post this picture in the Photo Thread? thxs

hmmmm....was she there to show support for her man? :mad:

Thanks for the link...I hadn't seen a pic of of her. I'd like to see a mug shot of her. Also, the article had some interesting info. MJ had worked in N.J.?

I wonder who the woman is that was with Denise? She sobbed when MJ was brought into the courtroom? ick

cheko1
07-08-2008, 09:32 AM
We would all like to know the answer to that question, too. And where is he now? He isn't screaming at the top of his lungs about his child being severely abused, raped, and dragging her to live with him to get her away from Denise. It is odd.


Apparently he seems to be ok with it / the parents don't want to be bothered by the truth in this case. :confused:

He needs to start screaming...but then again he may not be any better than MJ. :furious:

VTNance
07-08-2008, 09:41 AM
I was thinking about the screen name MJ used in the blog entry they faked. The fake MySpace boyfriend was called "Skittlemeup." I was wondering if that might have any significance to anything.

I looked up "Skittles" and terms using Skittles in www.urbandictionary.com

"Skittle dropper" = pedophile!

There are also a number of phrases that refer to the use of Skittles in sex acts. Believe it or not.

cheko1
07-08-2008, 09:49 AM
There is a picture of Denise Jacques, who was present in court yesterday at this link :

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL


Could someone post this picture in the Photo Thread? thxs


Thank you Starr!!!
Nice to be able to finally put a face with the name.

Seems like she is going to stand by her man since she is at the court proceedings. What a dumb B!tch....sorry but thats how I feel.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 09:53 AM
Apparently he seems to be ok with it / the parents don't want to be bothered by the truth in this case. :confused:

He needs to start screaming...but then again he may not be any better than MJ. :furious:According the the emails, he was in contact with Denise as MJ said that she was "flirting" with him etc. So I don't understand his silence now. Maybe you are right...they really aren't bothered by the truth in this case.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 09:58 AM
I was thinking about the screen name MJ used in the blog entry they faked. The fake MySpace boyfriend was called "Skittlemeup." I was wondering if that might have any significance to anything.

I looked up "Skittles" and terms using Skittles in www.urbandictionary.com

"Skittle dropper" = pedophile!

There are also a number of phrases that refer to the use of Skittles in sex acts. Believe it or not.Welcome to WS, VTNance. I had no idea! Good job on putting that together. He was sure bold in many ways...then when he gets caught and is in court...he turns into the coward he truly is:

Jacques, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans, answered a set of court process questions from Niedermeier in a nearly inaudible voice during the brief court hearing.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Liz
07-08-2008, 09:58 AM
Morning all -

FYI, Fox news just did a teaser about an upcoming segment on a 3rd man's role in this case. Can't imagine what that's all about but I just awoke so maybe you all do. A few minutes prior they mentioned about a man unwittingly disposing of evidence ..... tune in if you can.

Lola
07-08-2008, 10:00 AM
SS, he pled out the last time, perhaps he's thinking his co-operative smooth talk will work for him this time. Hmmmph. :mad:

cheko1
07-08-2008, 10:02 AM
According the the emails, he was in contact with Denise as MJ said that she was "flirting" with him etc. So I don't understand his silence now. Maybe you are right...they really aren't bothered by the truth in this case.

For certain I'm not impressed with Denise......I'm sure she'd flirt with anyone who'd look the side she was on!.....

The truth normally hurts people Denise has turned her back on the truth for years. She sure isn't going to face the truth nor take a ounce of responsibility for her actions at this late of a date. JMO

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 10:04 AM
hmmmm....was she there to show support for her man? :mad:

Thanks for the link...I hadn't seen a pic of of her. I'd like to see a mug shot of her. Also, the article had some interesting info. MJ had worked in N.J.?

I wonder who the woman is that was with Denise? She sobbed when MJ was brought into the courtroom? ickI don't see where it mentioned NJ...but his employmer is in Lebanon, NH where he failed to register in 2005.

I can't figure out who the other woman could be either. Since she was sobbing, I find it curious. Was she sobbing for Brooke or for MJ? Denise being there and showing no emotion is quite the contrast. Is she for real?! How can you not get emotional when looking at this piece of scum who you know raped your child and killed your niece?!

Thanks for posting the article, Starr! I bet TG will see to it that gets posted on the photo thread. (She is awesome!)

Carrington
07-08-2008, 10:05 AM
Busylady posted this information. I made note of the names.
I think I have this right, if not, someone please correct.

Denise was married to TWO Rice's.
Shawn E Rice 4/7/1990
Scott R Rice 6/10/1997
Yes, brothers

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 10:08 AM
Morning all -

FYI, Fox news just did a teaser about an upcoming segment on a 3rd man's role in this case. Can't imagine what that's all about but I just awoke so maybe you all do. A few minutes prior they mentioned about a man unwittingly disposing of evidence ..... tune in if you can.Interesting! I haven't heard anything. I wonder if Fox got smart and started reading here to figure out that Kevin might be involved much more than he claims? :rolleyes:

cheko1
07-08-2008, 10:09 AM
I don't see where it mentioned NJ...but his employmer is in Lebanon, NH where he failed to register in 2005.

I can't figure out who the other woman could be either. Since she was sobbing, I find it curious. Was she sobbing for Brooke or for MJ? Denise being there and showing no emotion is quite the contrast. Is she for real?! How can you not get emotional when looking at this piece of scum who you know raped your child and killed your niece?!

Thanks for posting the article, Starr! I bet TG will see to it that gets posted on the photo thread. (She is awesome!)

SS can you imagine if any of us here had to sit & look at that low life scum?
Densie is his puppet, who knows she may of posed many times for him in his porn. She might not see anything wrong with the entire scenario. I'm sure MJ told Denise he is innocent & the FBI & LE is out to hang him. At what point will Denise come to her senses??? I think she is beyond any & all help.

VTNance
07-08-2008, 10:09 AM
Thanks for the welcome, SS. This group is really on top of things!

In that MySpace entry, MJ also had "Brooke" say something about "you can bring your friend with you but you have to admit that's weird".... further setting up his alibi. She goes to meet the "friend" and is surprised and violently attacked by him and his pal he brought along... Sick, sick, sick. He spent so much time thinking about this, probably enjoying every minute of the planning, too.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 10:09 AM
SS, he pled out the last time, perhaps he's thinking his co-operative smooth talk will work for him this time. Hmmmph. :mad:He would be miserably mistaken this time, but it probably is what that POS is hoping for. Hey...worked before with just a mild slap on the wrist and a little "therapy". Sheesh!

vermontn03
07-08-2008, 10:11 AM
dark_shadows just called me from work, she has a picture of gagnon, she will scan it when she gets home and post it.

cheko1
07-08-2008, 10:12 AM
Busylady posted this information. I made note of the names.
I think I have this right, if not, someone please correct.

Denise was married to TWO Rice's.
Shawn E Rice 4/7/1990
Scott R Rice 6/10/1997
Yes, brothers

Thanks Carrington, I must of missed that post while I tried playing catch up. Interesting.......

Amster
07-08-2008, 10:12 AM
I don't see where it mentioned NJ...but his employmer is in Lebanon, NH where he failed to register in 2005.

I can't figure out who the other woman could be either. Since she was sobbing, I find it curious. Was she sobbing for Brooke or for MJ? Denise being there and showing no emotion is quite the contrast. Is she for real?! How can you not get emotional when looking at this piece of scum who you know raped your child and killed your niece?!

Thanks for posting the article, Starr! I bet TG will see to it that gets posted on the photo thread. (She is awesome!)

oooopsy....N.H., not N.J. :blushing:

How Denise can show her pathetic self in public is beyond my understanding. :furious:

SuziQ
07-08-2008, 10:12 AM
dark_shadows just called me from work, she has a picture of gagnon, she will scan it when she gets home and post it.

Woo hoo! Thank you both!

vermontn03
07-08-2008, 10:13 AM
Woo hoo! Thank you both!

you are very welcome.

cheko1
07-08-2008, 10:13 AM
dark_shadows just called me from work, she has a picture of gagnon, she will scan it when she gets home and post it.

Thanks for the info!

DS rocks as usual!!!!!

SuziQ
07-08-2008, 10:14 AM
Man, there is a resemblance to that drawing. Why can't we have his current picture?!

Click on details at that link for a bigger pic. It says he's a violent offender. :eek: Why is he out? Raped a minor? This joke (whoever he is) should be locked up! :behindbar:behindbar

I am shocked at how much they look alike. Creepy.

Amster
07-08-2008, 10:14 AM
dark_shadows just called me from work, she has a picture of gagnon, she will scan it when she gets home and post it.

Hooray! I like to look at the pic of people I despise!

SuziQ
07-08-2008, 10:16 AM
Hooray! I like to look at the pic of people I despise!

And they make a great dartboard or shooting target.

Amster
07-08-2008, 10:16 AM
Fox reporting now...

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 10:17 AM
Nobody knew who BTK killer was. Including his wife. I have no idea but I think men like have the ability to compartmentalize dif aspects of themselves. Look at all the people like BTK who hide in plain site for yrs. When they get caught their best friends, neighbors, church deacons are shocked.Except that everyone knew what this guy was! He was a KNOWN convicted violent SO...so no one around him should be shocked with this outcome.

cheko1
07-08-2008, 10:17 AM
oooopsy....N.H., not N.J. :blushing:

How Denise can show her pathetic self in public is beyond my understanding. :furious:


Especially at court! She has to be supporting MJ....

vermontn03
07-08-2008, 10:19 AM
asking the landlord to throw away kiddie porn, he didnt know what was on it. the landlord is facing charges and they think that there will be more arrests in this case

Amster
07-08-2008, 10:19 AM
Reporter thinks there will be more arrests....LE holding back a lot of info....

Now, on to more important news....celebrity divorce....sheesh

Liz
07-08-2008, 10:20 AM
Interesting! I haven't heard anything. I wonder if Fox got smart and started reading here to figure out that Kevin might be involved much more than he claims? :rolleyes:

They're covering it now and I have a feeling it is going to be Kevin. Yep!
Kevin Grosenheider. It's sooo yesterday's news. About Gagnon calling back to his landlord and how the landlord possibly knew about what exactly was on the laptop, inside the safe - to include (who we know as) A.R.

Meghan Kelly is saying this guy has a lot of 'splaining to do. Guy on the phone (Sam, frm the Burlington Free Press) says there is going to (most likely) be more arrests.

That's it.

Eta: Sam also added that he felt the COD and TOD are already known but not being released in order to possibly snare other suspects

Lola
07-08-2008, 10:20 AM
I'd like to do a little forensic investigation on the landlord's computers, frankly. I don't trust him either.

Lola
07-08-2008, 10:21 AM
They're covering it now and I have a feeling it is going to be Kevin. Yep!
Kevin Grosenheider. It's sooo yesterday's news. About Gagnon calling back to his landlord and how the landlord possibly knew about what exactly was on the laptop, inside the safe - to include (who we know as) A.R.

Meghan Kelly is saying this guy has a lot of 'splaining to do. Guy on the phone (Sam, frm the Burlington Free Press) says there is going to (most likely) be more arrests.

That's it.

Reminds you of that loser in Nevada who "found" the tape of the little girl being abused. Yeah, Kev...just keeping on digging that hole you're in.

SuziQ
07-08-2008, 10:22 AM
Thanks for the Fox updates everyone.

cheko1
07-08-2008, 10:22 AM
I sincerely hope they arrest Denise! I honestly don't think she is innocent or that stupid. Not to know what was going on in her home.

vermontn03
07-08-2008, 10:22 AM
They're covering it now and I have a feeling it is going to be Kevin. Yep!
Kevin Grosenheider. It's sooo yesterday's news. About Gagnon calling back to his landlord and how the landlord possibly knew about what exactly was on the laptop, inside the safe - to include (who we know as) A.R.

Meghan Kelly is saying this guy has a lot of 'splaining to do. Guy on the phone (Sam, frm the Burlington Free Press) says there is going to (most likely) be more arrests.

That's it.

Sam Hemmingway from the burlington free press is a very nice and kind guy, he is a reporter who gets the whole story and not missed words, no mess ups. I have known him for years.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 10:23 AM
dark_shadows just called me from work, she has a picture of gagnon, she will scan it when she gets home and post it.WTG, Dark!! Amazing when we can't get one from the media! Great job! Cat will be out of the bag finally!
Thanks, Vermontn for letting us know.

vermontn03
07-08-2008, 10:24 AM
WTG, Dark!! Amazing when we can't get one from the media! Great job! Cat will be out of the bag finally!
Thanks, Vermontn for letting us know.


your very welcome.

Amster
07-08-2008, 10:25 AM
Sam Hemmingway from the burlington free press is a very nice and kind guy, he is a reporter who gets the whole story and not missed words, no mess ups. I have known him for years.

And, he's certainly got his facts straight....unlike most of the media.

SuziQ
07-08-2008, 10:26 AM
Vermont, not to be pushy, but can DS tell her boss she's sick and come home now?

Medea
07-08-2008, 10:27 AM
I'd like to do a little forensic investigation on the landlord's computers, frankly. I don't trust him either.


Yeah, his story about the safe so far hasn't added up. I don't think the FBI would have been unable to find this alleged safe if he threw it out when and where he said he did. He lied.

DeltaDawn
07-08-2008, 10:31 AM
Vermont, not to be pushy, but can DS tell her boss she's sick and come home now?

LOL..I'll second that!

Thanks Vermont and tell DS we thank her very much also.

:blowkiss:

calidreamin
07-08-2008, 10:31 AM
SS can you imagine if any of us here had to sit & look at that low life scum?
Densie is his puppet, who knows she may of posed many times for him in his porn. She might not see anything wrong with the entire scenario. I'm sure MJ told Denise he is innocent & the FBI & LE is out to hang him. At what point will Denise come to her senses??? I think she is beyond any & all help.

I agree with this cheko. I don't think Denise will probably come to her senses anytime soon.

becca
07-08-2008, 10:33 AM
Reporter thinks there will be more arrests....LE holding back a lot of info....

Now, on to more important news....celebrity divorce....sheesh

The FBI is going to hold back lots... that way everyone is going to be shocked when they walk in the door with warrants

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 10:33 AM
Vermont, not to be pushy, but can DS tell her boss she's sick and come home now?I will be glad to write her a note: "Dear Dark's Boss: She has a "family" emergency and is needed desperately at her second home. She won't be able to return until tomorrow as we will be busy with target practice until that time. Sincerely, SS~"

Carrington
07-08-2008, 10:34 AM
Especially at court! She has to be supporting MJ....

Wouldn't surprise me none if the woman with her is her mother, Lincinda (sp) also known as Grandma, that didn't want to report Brooke missing.......
Who else would be seen with her. :behindbar lock her up!

Liz
07-08-2008, 10:35 AM
There is a SO on the Tennesee registry named Michael William Gagnon. The photo is of poor quality although. There is an resemblance to sketch of Gagnon.

http://www.ticic.state.tn.us/sorinternet/SOFind.aspx?strhold=n=gagnon


Could someone post this picture in the Photo Thread? thxs

Starr, imo there is an incredible resemblance to the artist's sketch we've seen of Gagnon.

Have you compared this pic to the pic that was in your BFP paper?

I think you should alert the authorities of this resemblance!

(Sorry if this has already been mentioned. I'm playing ketchup! ;))
And btw, GOOD JOB sleuthing! :clap:

(And, thanks for providing the link to the pic of Denise!)

calidreamin
07-08-2008, 10:36 AM
dark_shadows just called me from work, she has a picture of gagnon, she will scan it when she gets home and post it.

Woohoo as usual a wonderful job DS. Thanks vermont for letting us know.:)

angelwngs
07-08-2008, 10:36 AM
Vermont, not to be pushy, but can DS tell her boss she's sick and come home now?

LOL. :clap:

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 10:36 AM
They're covering it now and I have a feeling it is going to be Kevin. Yep!
Kevin Grosenheider. It's sooo yesterday's news. About Gagnon calling back to his landlord and how the landlord possibly knew about what exactly was on the laptop, inside the safe - to include (who we know as) A.R.

Meghan Kelly is saying this guy has a lot of 'splaining to do. Guy on the phone (Sam, frm the Burlington Free Press) says there is going to (most likely) be more arrests.

That's it.

Eta: Sam also added that he felt the COD and TOD are already known but not being released in order to possibly snare other suspectsThanks for the report! Snare other suspects?! The COD and TOD being used in that manner would mean they knew of the murder ahead of time?

MCDRAW
07-08-2008, 10:38 AM
hmmmm....was she there to show support for her man? :mad:

Thanks for the link...I hadn't seen a pic of of her. I'd like to see a mug shot of her. Also, the article had some interesting info. MJ had worked in N.J.?

I wonder who the woman is that was with Denise? She sobbed when MJ was brought into the courtroom? ick


The woman may have been a member of his family. Maybe Denise went to support her. Or maybe Densie went to court to hear the evidence against him.

DeltaDawn
07-08-2008, 10:39 AM
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

snip/

Gagnon, 40 of San Antonio, is accused of altering Brooke’s MySpace Web page during the police investigation and trying to hide evidence he possessed child pornography by asking a friend in Texas to dispose of a safe containing the pornographic images.

The photos include images of an underage Vermont girl engaging in sexual acts with a boyfriend. According to police, Gagnon and Jacques had engaged in simultaneous sexual acts with the same girl in Royalton in 2007.

/snip

There's the smoking gun..these imagines of AR on Gagnon's computer..they have them on producing, distributing kiddie porn..that's all they needed was for it it show up on another computer somewhere else other then Jacques. Yeah..I knew these guys were way deep into this stuff.


And what is up with Denise's expression..she looks like the caption should be " Huh?"

calidreamin
07-08-2008, 10:39 AM
Wouldn't surprise me none if the woman with her is her mother, Lincinda (sp) also known as Grandma, that didn't want to report Brooke missing.......
Who else would be seen with her. :behindbar lock her up!
Lock her up is right. There is no way she didn't know their was something very wrong going on with her daughter. She turned a blind eye when she should have been more concerned about her daughter then her RSO husband.

emanon7
07-08-2008, 10:39 AM
Yeah, his story about the safe so far hasn't added up. I don't think the FBI would have been unable to find this alleged safe if he threw it out when and where he said he did. He lied.

I suspected there was no safe last Friday when I found out there was no active landfill search going on in San Antonio. That compounded with the family connection to the RSO Grosenheider sealed the deal for me that KG was lying.

DeltaDawn
07-08-2008, 10:46 AM
Or Kevin didn't lie and the Feds actually do have the safe..anything is possible..the safe could be a red herring..or the safe was found and the Feds didn't want that info out there yet.

SuziQ
07-08-2008, 10:46 AM
I will be glad to write her a note: "Dear Dark's Boss: She has a "family" emergency and is needed desperately at her second home. She won't be able to return until tomorrow as we will be busy with target practice until that time. Sincerely, SS~"

I love it!

Liz
07-08-2008, 10:47 AM
Thank you Starr!!!
Nice to be able to finally put a face with the name.

Seems like she is going to stand by her man since she is at the court proceedings. What a dumb B!tch....sorry but thats how I feel.

I wonder who it was with her, cheko, that was sobbing?

"Jacques' wife, Denise, attended the hearing but showed no emotion. A woman who accompanied Denise Jacques to the hearing sobbed quietly Jacques led into the courtroom. Both women declined comment when approached by a reporter following the hearing."

I'm getting dizzy from all the players plus haven't had my morning joe yet.

Anyone know or recall -
Is MJ's mother still alive? Live in the local area? TIA

And, welcome aboard, VTNance and emanon7! :)

calidreamin
07-08-2008, 10:48 AM
I suspected there was no safe last Friday when I found out there was no active landfill search going on in San Antonio. That compounded with the family connection to the RSO Grosenheider sealed the deal for me that KG was lying.

I suspect the safe was just a ruse to throw LE off the trail of the porn. The fact that RG went to Alabama to hide porn in his house is very telling. He really wanted to keep his porn, otherwise he would have thrown it out somewhere between Texas and Vermont.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 10:53 AM
I suspected there was no safe last Friday when I found out there was no active landfill search going on in San Antonio. That compounded with the family connection to the RSO Grosenheider sealed the deal for me that KG was lying.Welcome to WS, Emanon! I agree that KG lied about the safe and tossing the contents in a dumpster.

cheko1
07-08-2008, 10:53 AM
Wouldn't surprise me none if the woman with her is her mother, Lincinda (sp) also known as Grandma, that didn't want to report Brooke missing.......
Who else would be seen with her. :behindbar lock her up!

After this story broke I'm sure she can count any friends on 1 hand!
Can you imagine what the people she works with thinks??? ewwwwwwwwww!!!! Not many people will be brave enough to be seen in public with her for sure!!!!

cheko1
07-08-2008, 10:55 AM
I suspected there was no safe last Friday when I found out there was no active landfill search going on in San Antonio. That compounded with the family connection to the RSO Grosenheider sealed the deal for me that KG was lying.

Welcome to WS emanon & any others I missed welcoming!

MCDRAW
07-08-2008, 10:55 AM
I don't know how anyone can live in the same house with men who collect all this child porn and feign not knowing though. That I do not buy.


Believe it or not, there are people that do not like computers and know nothing about a computer. My Mom says all she knows is how to dust it. My husband never gets on the computer.

gigi2009
07-08-2008, 10:57 AM
Can you imagine how the parents of Juv2 must feel? That kid must be pretty freaked out. I'm sure the buzz around town must be nuts!

becca
07-08-2008, 11:00 AM
Can you imagine how the parents of Juv2 must feel? That kid must be pretty freaked out. I'm sure the buzz around town must be nuts!

If his parents are smart they have him tucked away out of town somewhere. If these POS have others out there somewhere the kid better be somewhere safe. One never knows the length people will go to inorder to save their selves.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:01 AM
Can you imagine how the parents of Juv2 must feel? That kid must be pretty freaked out. I'm sure the buzz around town must be nuts!Outraged. Their son was used and could have gone to prison for life or faced the DP if LE hadn't pieced together the rest of the story, but went on the DNA evidence found on Brooke's items. :furious:

MCDRAW
07-08-2008, 11:02 AM
I remember Denise saying in regard to Raymond - "He is very booksmart", didn't she? I remember thinking that it was a really strange remark. Almost as if - well was - complimenting him.
There is no telling what all has been going on. These sisters are crazy.


The only time I have ever mentioned that someone was "book smart", I was really saying that they were stupid when it came to common sense or every day matters. So it may not have been a compliment.

cheko1
07-08-2008, 11:02 AM
I wonder who it was with her, cheko, that was sobbing?

"Jacques' wife, Denise, attended the hearing but showed no emotion. A woman who accompanied Denise Jacques to the hearing sobbed quietly Jacques led into the courtroom. Both women declined comment when approached by a reporter following the hearing."

I'm getting dizzy from all the players plus haven't had my morning joe yet.

Anyone know or recall -
Is MJ's mother still alive? Live in the local area? TIA

And, welcome aboard, VTNance and emanon7! :)

It would almost have to be a family member, nobody else in the world would cry over seeing that monster come into the court room. I'm surprised people weren't cheering & yelling, 'Hang the SOB'!!!!

Medea
07-08-2008, 11:03 AM
I suspect the safe was just a ruse to throw LE off the trail of the porn. The fact that RG went to Alabama to hide porn in his house is very telling. He really wanted to keep his porn, otherwise he would have thrown it out somewhere between Texas and Vermont.


Yep. Imagine the pathology of this guy...he knows for a fact or at the very least strongly suspects that Jacques has killed Brooke.

He involves himself in attempting to cover Jacques tracks by falsifying Brooke's myspace page.

Yet he STILL cannot bring himself to destroy his child porn collection.

DianeB
07-08-2008, 11:04 AM
Something just occurred to me. Do you think maybe RG went to the library in Cullan and tried to login to the myspace account to make it look like it was Brooke who had done so in order to draw attention away from Vermont?

Jaded
07-08-2008, 11:06 AM
dark_shadows just called me from work, she has a picture of gagnon, she will scan it when she gets home and post it.

AWESOME!!

I suspected there was no safe last Friday when I found out there was no active landfill search going on in San Antonio. That compounded with the family connection to the RSO Grosenheider sealed the deal for me that KG was lying.

I've never bought the safe story either. Any NORMAL person would NOT toss out a safe knowing there was kiddie porn in it; they would call the police. Plus the fact that KG's brother is a RSO who collects (STILL COLLECTS, IMO) child porn. Have we determined for sure if he has absconded?


I suspect the safe was just a ruse to throw LE off the trail of the porn. The fact that RG went to Alabama to hide porn in his house is very telling. He really wanted to keep his porn, otherwise he would have thrown it out somewhere between Texas and Vermont.

RG almost seemed boastful about his 'five years worth of Russian porn'. I figured there was no way he was going to part with it. I'm no porn connoisseur, but what is the difference between Russian porn and the rest of it?

DianeB
07-08-2008, 11:07 AM
The only time I have ever mentioned that someone was "book smart", I was really saying that they were stupid when it came to common sense or every day matters. So it may not have been a compliment.

One of the news stories the other day said that Gagnon received a mechanical engineering degree from the University of Maine in December 1990.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out he's the only one in the family to have made it past junior high.

cheko1
07-08-2008, 11:07 AM
Something just occurred to me. Do you think maybe RG went to the library in Cullan and tried to login to the myspace account to make it look like it was Brooke who had done so in order to draw attention away from Vermont?


I have thought that DianeB.
RG seems to think the FBI & LE would believe any story they came up with. I doubt he felt he'd get any more than questioned.

DianeB
07-08-2008, 11:10 AM
I'm no porn connoisseur, but what is the difference between Russian porn and the rest of it?

I think it may be particularly brutal due to the lack of strict government oversight and the relative anonymity of the perps who distribute the stuff on the internet.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:11 AM
trying to catch up from last night....thanks for this link, Diane:)

http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_189231932.html

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 11:11 AM
Believe it or not, there are people that do not like computers and know nothing about a computer. My Mom says all she knows is how to dust it. My husband never gets on the computer.

Oh I know. I wasn't even referring to the wives using the computer but being aware of what their husbands were doing. I can't overhaul an engine and don't want to learn but I knew what my husband and his friends were doing even if it was down at the marina working on a boat.

Didn't they ever walk in the room, knock on the home office door, ask what are you doing for umteen hours in that room, or time at their pal's house, etc? Maybe it's just me. I never had reason to distrust my hubby but I couldn't live like that. These men had to spend a lot of time excluding their wives and the wives tolerate it for them to engage in this level of child pornography. At some point seems like the Mothers would've said enough. Especially an ex-con with sexual assault on his record spending time with the children.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:12 AM
Something just occurred to me. Do you think maybe RG went to the library in Cullan and tried to login to the myspace account to make it look like it was Brooke who had done so in order to draw attention away from Vermont?I think it is precisely what he wanted to do. When he showed up in VT the next day, he would play the role of the worried step-dad...even going to church with her bio father and his wife soon after! What do you bet he never mentioned his side trip to Alabama to them? Scumbag!

DeltaDawn
07-08-2008, 11:13 AM
We know Gagnon changed the MYSpace , but he also did something with her email account too. I think one took place in Texas before he left and the other was from Cullman..probably the library.

DeltaDawn
07-08-2008, 11:16 AM
What are the hours that MJ works? Does Thermdyne have a second shift? It just seems like he has been available alot during the day..while Denise was at work. That would have given him all day to take care of his porn interests.

Denise would have been pretty computer knowledgable if she was in the marketing dept of a medical company and had her email listed to that company on the internet. She knew her way around a computer alright.

DianeB
07-08-2008, 11:16 AM
These men had to spend a lot of time excluding their wives and the wives tolerate it

Yeah, but none of these guys are what you'd call the George Clooney type. Maybe their wives (no Angelinas...) tolerated it because they were happy to have their husbands get their rocks off online instead of bothering them for sex.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:16 AM
My theory is that when AR and MJ picked Brooke up again after the store, they started in with the mental torture of her. Telling her what was to come and starting to build the fear.

I don't believe drugs are involved because as sick as MJ is...he wanted her to be "alert" to feel the torture and to be able to struggle.

I don't believe AR's account of what happened when they got back to the house...only they did go back there and Brooke never left the property.

The cause of death may never be known. However, if his fantasy had to do with the 1985 conviction...I would suspect a knife was used.

i think she was built up to think there really was going to be a party....a party where she'd meet some really cute guy....has it been said how AR & MJ picked her back up though, once they dropped her off at Cumberland Farms?...that's where i'm a bit confused.....or did they never really "drop" her off there to start with...

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 11:17 AM
I have thought that DianeB.
RG seems to think the FBI & LE would believe any story they came up with. I doubt he felt he'd get any more than questioned.

I think so too. I think he thought using a public computer would lend anonymity to his web use. I think they both thought themselves smooth operators; whereas they were really unsophisticated. Maybe that came from them getting away with this for so long.

DianeB
07-08-2008, 11:19 AM
has it been said how AR & MJ picked her back up though, once they dropped her off at Cumberland Farms?

I figured it was a situation in which Brooke had been 'stood up' by "Sam" and maybe called them from the laundromat to come get her.

DeltaDawn
07-08-2008, 11:20 AM
I think RG thought he covered the computer trail and the porn trail he was done..home free..and that fool MJ also thought the same. They thought they had all their bases covered..even with the planting of evidence.

If they didn't think that they wouldn't have been calling the police for updates, planting evidence, finding the evidence they planted..etc...It was MJ that found the tennis shoe and then the LEO came out and found the rest. Just how stupid were these guys?

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 11:21 AM
i think she was built up to think there really was going to be a party....a party where she'd meet some really cute guy....has it been said how AR & MJ picked her back up though, once they dropped her off at Cumberland Farms?...that's where i'm a bit confused.....or did they never really "drop" her off there to start with...

The affidavits didn't address the issues you're wondering about. They just left those things for readers to assume. It was my impression MJ did drop her off and then picked her up about one hour later. Who knows what they told her. I took the story at face value as to what happened. He probably just told her whatever lie he chose. Like he always had done to use and abuse her.

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 11:22 AM
I think RG thought he covered the computer trail and the porn trail he was done..home free..and that fool MJ also thought the same. They thought they had all their bases covered..even with the planting of evidence.

I agree. Stan and Ollie thinking they were sophisticated.

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 11:23 AM
I figured it was a situation in which Brooke had been 'stood up' by "Sam" and maybe called them from the laundromat to come get her.

Was there ever really a sam? I thought those were fictitious names MJ dreamed up.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:24 AM
I was thinking about the screen name MJ used in the blog entry they faked. The fake MySpace boyfriend was called "Skittlemeup." I was wondering if that might have any significance to anything.

I looked up "Skittles" and terms using Skittles in www.urbandictionary.com

"Skittle dropper" = pedophile!

There are also a number of phrases that refer to the use of Skittles in sex acts. Believe it or not.

ewwww, learn something new everyday....

Carrington
07-08-2008, 11:25 AM
Wonder why Juvie 2 still remains a complete mystery?
The teens around the area, must know who he is, as well as their parents.

:waitasec:

DianeB
07-08-2008, 11:26 AM
Probably was a fictitious person, but Brooke wouldn't have known that. Maybe they snagged a photo online somewhere of some cute guy and used it to make posts on her myspace page allegedly as this kid 'Sam'. At this point I wouldn't put much past this bunch.

MCDRAW
07-08-2008, 11:27 AM
you know if he hadn't tried to change her MYspace from Cullman, they probably wouldn't hhave checked the house in Cullman. They probably wouldn't have had a record of his last visit there otherwise. Talking about leaving a trail. :D

Liz
07-08-2008, 11:28 AM
Welcome to WS, VTNance. I had no idea! Good job on putting that together. He was sure bold in many ways...then when he gets caught and is in court...he turns into the coward he truly is:

Jacques, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans, answered a set of court process questions from Niedermeier in a nearly inaudible voice during the brief court hearing.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

I've been thinking that Jacques is a pushover in real life ... that's why he had to use all those fake personas to intimidate A.R. with. He was too wimpy to be the big, bad azz himself.

Surprised me that he was allowed to wear street clothes into court. I thought D_S mentioned yesterday that they would be wearing orange 'outfits'. ;)

I join you in your kudos to Nance, on the 'skittles' connection! WTG, Nance!



Thanks for the report! Snare other suspects?! The COD and TOD being used in that manner would mean they knew of the murder ahead of time?

You're welcome, SS --- but you totally lost me with this comment. What Sam relayed (my take at least) was that he felt that LE already has the time and cause of death; but are not releasing it, due to the continuing investigation.

MCDRAW
07-08-2008, 11:28 AM
Wonder why Juvie 2 still remains a complete mystery?
The teens around the area, must know who he is, as well as their parents.

:waitasec:


I would think they were trying to protect him.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:29 AM
dark_shadows just called me from work, she has a picture of gagnon, she will scan it when she gets home and post it.

cool!

nanandjim
07-08-2008, 11:29 AM
i think she was built up to think there really was going to be a party....a party where she'd meet some really cute guy....has it been said how AR & MJ picked her back up though, once they dropped her off at Cumberland Farms?...that's where i'm a bit confused.....or did they never really "drop" her off there to start with...
I think that they may have drugged her. Brooke and AR could have watched television until it took effect. AR said something about being drugged (one time) and that she didn't recognize one of the men with which she had sex because of it. So, we know that she was drugged at one point.

I also think that they drugged Brooke because, maybe her stepfather (former) was planning on participating and he didn't want Brooke to recognize him.

I don't understand the setup either. Brooke and MJ walk into CF. Brooke stands at the cash register (arms crossed) while MJ buys coffee. Why did she do this? If she were meeting someone, why didn't she just stay outside? Did MJ ask her to wait with him until he bought the coffee? It didn't even look like they said goodbye to one another when they exited the place. It looked choreographed with one going one way; and the other going the other way.

The guy on Fox News this morning said that the coroner knows the cause of death and is just not saying what it is for some reason. That's also confusing me. Why would they not state how she died. The guy said that there may be more arrests. Maybe, that's why it's not being announced. If others were present, LE may be interrogating suspects and holding back COD to get "true" confessions. That's the only reason that I can think of to withhold COD.

I wonder if both AR and her boyfriend were present. It seems to me that AR is more involved than she is admitting at this point. I'm not sure about the boyfriend. I wonder if he is a unknowing sap or a willing participant in the sex schemes and photos.

Surely, the mothers (Denise and Cassandra) were not there. I have no idea why Denise would show her face at MJ's hearing. Maybe, she wanted to make sure that he didn't get bail. Maybe, she just wanted to show her face to him. Surely, she was not there to support him.

DeltaDawn
07-08-2008, 11:30 AM
Was there ever really a sam? I thought those were fictitious names MJ dreamed up.


I have wondered if AR's boyfriend's name was Sam? That they used his name in the emails as well as his semen to try to set him up. They even had him come to the house to pick up AR. Then again it could be another figment of MJ's imagination.

Hobo
07-08-2008, 11:30 AM
Is BrooksAunt still posting on WS?

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 11:31 AM
Yeah, but none of these guys are what you'd call the George Clooney type. Maybe their wives (no Angelinas...) tolerated it because they were happy to have their husbands get their rocks off online instead of bothering them for sex.

You must be right because it happened. I just have a hard time imagining anyone living like that. Some of the things I read about other child porn cases the FBI has broken in conjunction with other International law enforcement was just unbelieveable. I'm not sure men who do this to children shouldn't be put to death. They've waived their right to live among reasonable society.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:31 AM
I am shocked at how much they look alike. Creepy.

i noticed that too, but the picture is so squished up, it's hard to tell...

TisHerself
07-08-2008, 11:32 AM
Nobody knew who BTK killer was. Including his wife. I have no idea but I think men like have the ability to compartmentalize dif aspects of themselves. Look at all the people like BTK who hide in plain site for yrs. When they get caught their best friends, neighbors, church deacons are shocked.


I don't know if I buy that, I think that they all know something is not right but just ignore it. When a person is that sick it has to show up somewhere in their everyday life! IMHO

philamena
07-08-2008, 11:32 AM
dark_shadows just called me from work, she has a picture of gagnon, she will scan it when she gets home and post it.
vermontn03,
:)Thank you for the news and of course thank dark_shadows for finding Ganon's picture.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:33 AM
i think she was built up to think there really was going to be a party....a party where she'd meet some really cute guy....has it been said how AR & MJ picked her back up though, once they dropped her off at Cumberland Farms?...that's where i'm a bit confused.....or did they never really "drop" her off there to start with...I believe that part of the story. They did drop her off as she was seen alone afterwards. I watched the report of the young man who said he saw her walking around and it didn't seem out of the ordinary. They also have other witnesses who saw her. All that has been stated is that AR said she helped get her in the car again and back to his house. She could have called, but LE would have records of that and it would ruin their cover story so I don't think it happened that way.

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 11:33 AM
I have wondered if AR's boyfriend's name was Sam? That they used his name in the emails as well as his semen to try to set him up. They even had him come to the house to pick up AR. Then again it could be another figment of MJ's imagination.

Oh okay. Well maybe. I can't imagine that poor child either and how they used him. And his parents and what they must be thinking now. I wish people would check into who their children are spending time with and the families. This is so tragic. Like someone else said he could've been implicated in capital murder.

CarpeDiem
07-08-2008, 11:34 AM
The affidavits didn't address the issues you're wondering about. They just left those things for readers to assume. It was my impression MJ did drop her off and then picked her up about one hour later. Who knows what they told her. I took the story at face value as to what happened. He probably just told her whatever lie he chose . . .

I think he and AR had taken her phone earlier that morning. When they drove around and picked her back up it was most likely with mock surprise and by telling her they would go back to the house to look for her phone. That's probably how and why she went upstairs so easily too.

LI_Mom
07-08-2008, 11:34 AM
Apparently he seems to be ok with it / the parents don't want to be bothered by the truth in this case. :confused:

He needs to start screaming...but then again he may not be any better than MJ. :furious:

It's also possible AR's real father is dead OR that Denise never even knew who the 'real' father was.

philamena
07-08-2008, 11:34 AM
asking the landlord to throw away kiddie porn, he didnt know what was on it. the landlord is facing charges and they think that there will be more arrests in this case

vermontn03,
Again, thanks so much for the info.
More arrest...exactly what we thought.

Liz
07-08-2008, 11:35 AM
RG almost seemed boastful about his 'five years worth of Russian porn'. I figured there was no way he was going to part with it. I'm no porn connoisseur, but what is the difference between Russian porn and the rest of it?

I've been scratching my head about something since we first heard it and it really bugs me ....

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation as to *WHY* Gagnon EVER admitted to LE, in the first place, that he possessed (any) Porn?? :confused:

nanandjim
07-08-2008, 11:35 AM
However, someone doing child porn wouldn't need to invest a lot except to avoid detection by LE. People would still pay big bucks to watch child porn live no matter how lousy the feed was.
Well, all of the players (to include MJ's father/grandfather) have homes. I'd like to know where all of these individuals, to include Ray Gagnon, got the money to buy at least one or more homes...

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:35 AM
Starr, imo there is an incredible resemblance to the artist's sketch we've seen of Gagnon.

Have you compared this pic to the pic that was in your BFP paper?

I think you should alert the authorities of this resemblance!

(Sorry if this has already been mentioned. I'm playing ketchup! ;))
And btw, GOOD JOB sleuthing! :clap:

(And, thanks for providing the link to the pic of Denise!)

thanks for this update Liz...got fox on now & a pot of coffee brewing:coffeecup:

eta...& also wanted to say thanks Starr, for the pic of Denise....i don't know, but i kinda pictured her looking different...maybe she cleans up good....

nanandjim
07-08-2008, 11:37 AM
It's also possible AR's real father is dead OR that Denise never even knew who the 'real' father was.
I thought one of the emails from one of the fictitious persons to AR stated that Denise was accepting calls from the real Dad. I thought that it was strange that it said that she was 'accepting.' That made me wonder if he was in jail. Don't you make collect calls from jail?

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 11:37 AM
I don't know if I buy that, I think that they all know something is not right but just ignore it. When a person is that sick it has to show up somewhere in their everyday life! IMHO

Well with the wives they live with it's a good bet you're right. But with BTK I was referring to the entire community. By compartmentalize, I mean that he went about his daily life in plain sight for so many years. It did show up in his creepiness with measuring people's grass and handing out citations but I don't think by his apparent weirdness that anyone in his community or church knew he was the infamous BTK killer.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:39 AM
It's also possible AR's real father is dead OR that Denise never even knew who the 'real' father was.Except we know who he is or at least the man named as her bio father on birth records. He seems to be alive and living in Rudolph, VT.

CarpeDiem
07-08-2008, 11:39 AM
The guy on Fox News this morning said that the coroner knows the cause of death and is just not saying what it is for some reason. That's also confusing me. Why would they not state how she died. The guy said that there may be more arrests. Maybe, that's why it's not being announced. If others were present, LE may be interrogating suspects and holding back COD to get "true" confessions. That's the only reason that I can think of to withhold COD.


I think more information will come out AFTER her funeral, perhaps Thursday.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:40 AM
I figured it was a situation in which Brooke had been 'stood up' by "Sam" and maybe called them from the laundromat to come get her.

ooooh, ok...very possible

MCDRAW
07-08-2008, 11:41 AM
I don't know if I buy that, I think that they all know something is not right but just ignore it. When a person is that sick it has to show up somewhere in their everyday life! IMHO



People were shocked to find out who the BTK was. They let people see what they want them to see. That's how they get by with want they do for so long. I'm sure his wife found it odd at first that he didn't want her in the garage, I'm sure he convinced her otherwise. She probably thought he was OCD or even territorial, not a killer.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:42 AM
Well, all of the players (to include MJ's father/grandfather) have homes. I'd like to know where all of these individuals, to include Ray Gagnon, got the money to buy at least one or more homes...Ray has a degree in Mechanical Engineering and they all had "respectable" jobs. I have a feeling that MJ's money and land partly came from some inheritance from the family. His family is well connected in the community and has maintained successful businesses there for many, many years.

Leve
07-08-2008, 11:43 AM
i think she was built up to think there really was going to be a party....a party where she'd meet some really cute guy....has it been said how AR & MJ picked her back up though, once they dropped her off at Cumberland Farms?...that's where i'm a bit confused.....or did they never really "drop" her off there to start with...


My theory of the day is that she really thought she was going to meet a cute boy (Sam) at this Party. I also think that MJ told her that her Mom said she couldn't attend the party so they all came up with the story about the hospital visit to tell her Mom while she was really at this party. She went into the store so MJ could tell the clerk this story and they would have a cover.

Also no one saw her get picked back up by MJ because she was sneaking back to attend the party.

MCDRAW
07-08-2008, 11:43 AM
I thought one of the emails from one of the fictitious persons to AR stated that Denise was accepting calls from the real Dad. I thought that it was strange that it said that she was 'accepting.' That made me wonder if he was in jail. Don't you make collect calls from jail?


Yes, the calls from jail are collect calls.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:43 AM
ooooh, ok...very possibleNo. Not possible at all. LE would have records of the incoming call to their phones and would have immediately tipped them off if Brooke had called from a public phone.

TisHerself
07-08-2008, 11:44 AM
Welcome to WS, VTNance. I had no idea! Good job on putting that together. He was sure bold in many ways...then when he gets caught and is in court...he turns into the coward he truly is:

Jacques, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans, answered a set of court process questions from Niedermeier in a nearly inaudible voice during the brief court hearing.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS01/80707017&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL
Inaudible voice! someone should have given him a Karate chop to his throat:furious:

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:44 AM
I believe that part of the story. They did drop her off as she was seen alone afterwards. I watched the report of the young man who said he saw her walking around and it didn't seem out of the ordinary. They also have other witnesses who saw her. All that has been stated is that AR said she helped get her in the car again and back to his house. She could have called, but LE would have records of that and it would ruin their cover story so I don't think it happened that way.

yep, it could have been where AR & RG came back & told her they got a call that "Sam" was running late & would meet them at the house.....gosh, i guess they could have used anything to get her back into the car......

soooooo, the little trip to the store was FOR LE i guess....to show that him & Brooke really did go separate ways once they left the store....hmmm

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 11:44 AM
I've been scratching my head about something since we first heard it and it really bugs me ....

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation as to *WHY* Gagnon EVER admitted to LE, in the first place, that he possessed (any) Porn?? :confused:

Oh sure. I think he was trying to save himself by snitching off Jacques. Trying to cop a plea deal. I'm not saying he did, just that he was hoping and trying. Not to get out of prosecution for himself completely but to beg off anything he can. A child is murdered and that's no small matter. In the end he may get life and Mj death penalty. He'll testify against Jacques in my opinion and get a lesser sentence for his cooperation.

Jaded
07-08-2008, 11:45 AM
i noticed that too, but the picture is so squished up, it's hard to tell...

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1060/78795388ex8.jpg

There ya go - the TN SO named Gagnon (http://www.ticic.state.tn.us/sorinternet/SOFind.aspx?strhold=n=gagnon)

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:45 AM
I've been scratching my head about something since we first heard it and it really bugs me ....

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation as to *WHY* Gagnon EVER admitted to LE, in the first place, that he possessed (any) Porn?? :confused:Probably because they were telling him things like they were going to pin this murder on him etc. They have their "ways" to get them to talk!

CarpeDiem
07-08-2008, 11:46 AM
I thought one of the emails from one of the fictitious persons to AR stated that Denise was accepting calls from the real Dad. I thought that it was strange that it said that she was 'accepting.' That made me wonder if he was in jail. Don't you make collect calls from jail?

Actually, I think that whole thing was a lie used to manipulate AR. I doubt there really was contact between Denise and the real Dad.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:46 AM
I think RG thought he covered the computer trail and the porn trail he was done..home free..and that fool MJ also thought the same. They thought they had all their bases covered..even with the planting of evidence.

If they didn't think that they wouldn't have been calling the police for updates, planting evidence, finding the evidence they planted..etc...It was MJ that found the tennis shoe and then the LEO came out and found the rest. Just how stupid were these guys?

very stupid.....in this day & time, you don't plan a murder on a computer, or cell phone....heck, they need to get walkie talkies, or those throw-away phones....

nanandjim
07-08-2008, 11:47 AM
Man, there is a resemblance to that drawing. Why can't we have his current picture?!

Click on details at that link for a bigger pic. It says he's a violent offender. :eek: Why is he out? Raped a minor? This joke (whoever he is) should be locked up! :behindbar:behindbar
I wonder if it is a relative of Ray Gagnon. This guy is 46 years old. He might be in jail now. That photo was taken in March 2008, right?

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:48 AM
Was there ever really a sam? I thought those were fictitious names MJ dreamed up.

i'm thinking there never was a Sam, myself....just a name used to get Brooke interested in a "party"....jmo

DianeB
07-08-2008, 11:48 AM
LE would have records of the incoming call to their phones and would have immediately tipped them off if Brooke had called from a public phone.

But if Brooke had called AR's cell from a public phone within an hour of being dropped off, would it necessarily have raised a flag?

angelwngs
07-08-2008, 11:49 AM
Wonder why Juvie 2 still remains a complete mystery?
The teens around the area, must know who he is, as well as their parents.

:waitasec:

I wonder if Brooke knew Juvie2. If not, could he have been part of the "cute guy who wants to meet you, Brooke"? Could the hanky with his DNA have been used to try to blackmail him into picking Brooke up after the drop off at the store? When Juvie2 didn't agree to help or didn't show, MJ then had to go and pick Brooke up and plan B went into effect using Juvie 2's DNA to frame him for the 'abduction'.

I wonder if MJ as AR ever emailed or used cell phone to contact Juvie 2...

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:49 AM
yep, it could have been where AR & RG came back & told her they got a call that "Sam" was running late & would meet them at the house.....gosh, i guess they could have used anything to get her back into the car......

soooooo, the little trip to the store was FOR LE i guess....to show that him & Brooke really did go separate ways once they left the store....hmmmOh, definitely! That was only a show for the cameras to verify MJ's account he dropped her off. All part of the plan.

That scenario would make sense since the fake "Sam" had been supposedly texting AR about Brooke to begin with. They could have told her something to that effect.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 11:49 AM
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1060/78795388ex8.jpg

There ya go - the TN SO named Gagnon (http://www.ticic.state.tn.us/sorinternet/SOFind.aspx?strhold=n=gagnon)

thanks so much jaded!....wow, big & up close, it certainly does look VERY much like the drawing of RG...the hair line, the glasses...hmmmmm, he's listed in Camden, TN...that's a bit west of Nashville

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:51 AM
But if Brooke had called AR's cell from a public phone within an hour of being dropped off, would it necessarily have raised a flag?Immediately. Since they were the last persons to be seen with Brooke, a phone call later from Brooke would tell LE that more communication meant their cover story wouldn't hold water. This would put them on the radar because LE would have suspected they did go back to get her.

DianeB
07-08-2008, 11:53 AM
Good point.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:53 AM
thanks so much jaded!....wow, big & up close, it certainly does look VERY much like the drawing of RG...the hair line, the glasses...hmmmmm, he's listed in Camden, TN...that's a bit west of NashvilleI can't wait to compare the photo of Ray to him.

TisHerself
07-08-2008, 11:55 AM
The FBI is going to hold back lots... that way everyone is going to be shocked when they walk in the door with warrants
You know I am wondering if the FBI since they were on this so quick, if they had not already, (before Brooke's death) been investigating a child porn /sex club. The investigation may have included RG and Jacques names. Just a thought.

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 11:57 AM
I wonder if both AR and her boyfriend were present. It seems to me that AR is more involved than she is admitting at this point. I'm not sure about the boyfriend. I wonder if he is a unknowing sap or a willing participant in the sex schemes and photos.


Hope you don't mind me snipping your post so you'll know what I'm replying to. Also it saves bandwidth.

By federal law anyone under age 18 is a child. they were named as JUVENILE victims in the affidavits. By law it is irrelevant. If they're not adults by law then by law they can't be consenting. Personally I think they were both lied to by these adults and that in itself is a crime to lie to children (under 18) for sex purposes. That's how the feds got them. they name the violations of law by code numbers in the affidavits. Lots of law violatins against these children named as JUVENILE 1 and JUVENILE 2 in the affidavits. The only way they're "involved" by law in those affidavits is as child victims.


http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/...guide_porn.html (http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/...guide_porn.html)

It is irrelevant that the age of consent for sexual activity in a given state might be lower than 18.

evelyn24
07-08-2008, 11:57 AM
The only time I have ever mentioned that someone was "book smart", I was really saying that they were stupid when it came to common sense or every day matters. So it may not have been a compliment.

Right.lol
It's like telling someone overweight, "You have a pretty face."

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:57 AM
You know I am wondering if the FBI since they were on this so quick, if they had not already, (before Brooke's death) been investigating a child porn /sex club. The investigation may have included RG and Jacques names. Just a thought.I have my doubts about that since they have had to rely on information collected since Brooke went missing mostly stemming from AR's accounts.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 11:58 AM
Right.lol
It's like telling someone overweight, "You have a pretty face."Or telling a blind date, "But she is really nice!". :eek:

MCDRAW
07-08-2008, 11:58 AM
I wonder if Brooke knew Juvie2. If not, could he have been part of the "cute guy who wants to meet you, Brooke"? Could the hanky with his DNA have been used to try to blackmail him into picking Brooke up after the drop off at the store? When Juvie2 didn't agree to help or didn't show, MJ then had to go and pick Brooke up and plan B went into effect using Juvie 2's DNA to frame him for the 'abduction'.

I wonder if MJ as AR ever emailed or used cell phone to contact Juvie 2...


I don't believe Brooke would buy that A.R. was going to set her up with A.R.'s boyfriend. I believe "Sam" is either a made up person or someone that Brooke liked from School. I would be surprised with A.R. didn't use a cell phone to contact Juvenile 2 at some point in their relationship.

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 12:00 PM
You know I am wondering if the FBI since they were on this so quick, if they had not already, (before Brooke's death) been investigating a child porn /sex club. The investigation may have included RG and Jacques names. Just a thought.

Who knows, but MJ was no problem to dredge up. Seconds I'm sure since he was an ex felon and thus in their criminal data base. FBI Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force works all the time. But I doubt they were tracking him prior to Brooks disappearance. If they had been they most likely could've prevented her death. MJ being in company of children would have alerted them he was up to no good; given his criminal history.

the affidavits say they were alerted to Brooke being reported missing and that's when the investigation began and I believe them. paraphrase

Liz
07-08-2008, 12:01 PM
I think that they may have drugged her. Brooke and AR could have watched television until it took effect. AR said something about being drugged (one time) and that she didn't recognize one of the men with which she had sex because of it. So, we know that she was drugged at one point.

I also think that they drugged Brooke because, maybe her stepfather (former) was planning on participating and he didn't want Brooke to recognize him.

I don't think she was drugged, nan. I only wish she was. But like others here, I believe the sadistic sexual psychopath, that MJ is, wanted her to endure every bit of pain, as intensely as he could administer.

Also as to believing A.R. about saying she was drugged that one time --- I kind of thought from the beginning that was a cover story, in order to keep some other perp from being exposed. I'm not sure we can take anything she says as gospel.


I don't understand the setup either. Brooke and MJ walk into CF. Brooke stands at the cash register (arms crossed) while MJ buys coffee. Why did she do this? If she were meeting someone, why didn't she just stay outside? Did MJ ask her to wait with him until he bought the coffee? It didn't even look like they said goodbye to one another when they exited the place. It looked choreographed with one going one way; and the other going the other way.

I personally don't buy into her body language being as stand-offish as many seem to be reading into it. I think it was standard teen body language, when a parent or elder (like uncle creepy) accompanies them into the store to ask the clerk if it's okay if the kid (who probably doesn't think of themselves as a child - 13th birthday upcoming) uses their phone IF their ride doesn't show up. Brooke probably was embarrassed that Unk was even asking that, as she probably was expecting "Sam" to show; plus probably thought she could ask to use the phone herself, if the ride didn't show. Maybe even embarrassed she didn't have her own cell phone with her.


The guy on Fox News this morning said that the coroner knows the cause of death and is just not saying what it is for some reason. That's also confusing me. Why would they not state how she died. The guy said that there may be more arrests. Maybe, that's why it's not being announced. If others were present, LE may be interrogating suspects and holding back COD to get "true" confessions. That's the only reason that I can think of to withhold COD.

I wonder if both AR and her boyfriend were present. It seems to me that AR is more involved than she is admitting at this point. I'm not sure about the boyfriend. I wonder if he is a unknowing sap or a willing participant in the sex schemes and photos.

Surely, the mothers (Denise and Cassandra) were not there. I have no idea why Denise would show her face at MJ's hearing. Maybe, she wanted to make sure that he didn't get bail. Maybe, she just wanted to show her face to him. Surely, she was not there to support him.

I think we'll just have to stay tuned. I feel pretty sure there are going to be more arrests. As to whom, who knows.

You do know Denise was there, don't you? It occured to me that possibly Denise wanted to attend to make sure MJ didn't incriminate her in any way. Or possibly to make sure he stays locked up - to be there to plead with the judge. I'm glad she showed because my curiousity was getting the best of me.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 12:02 PM
I think that they may have drugged her. Brooke and AR could have watched television until it took effect. AR said something about being drugged (one time) and that she didn't recognize one of the men with which she had sex because of it. So, we know that she was drugged at one point.

I also think that they drugged Brooke because, maybe her stepfather (former) was planning on participating and he didn't want Brooke to recognize him.

I don't understand the setup either. Brooke and MJ walk into CF. Brooke stands at the cash register (arms crossed) while MJ buys coffee. Why did she do this? If she were meeting someone, why didn't she just stay outside? Did MJ ask her to wait with him until he bought the coffee? It didn't even look like they said goodbye to one another when they exited the place. It looked choreographed with one going one way; and the other going the other way.

The guy on Fox News this morning said that the coroner knows the cause of death and is just not saying what it is for some reason. That's also confusing me. Why would they not state how she died. The guy said that there may be more arrests. Maybe, that's why it's not being announced. If others were present, LE may be interrogating suspects and holding back COD to get "true" confessions. That's the only reason that I can think of to withhold COD.

I wonder if both AR and her boyfriend were present. It seems to me that AR is more involved than she is admitting at this point. I'm not sure about the boyfriend. I wonder if he is a unknowing sap or a willing participant in the sex schemes and photos.

Surely, the mothers (Denise and Cassandra) were not there. I have no idea why Denise would show her face at MJ's hearing. Maybe, she wanted to make sure that he didn't get bail. Maybe, she just wanted to show her face to him. Surely, she was not there to support him.

yeah, drugs could have been involved, but i thought RG didn't leave TX till June 26th....(can't remember where i read this now)....a lot is still very confusing for me.....i think when LE were called about Brooke missing, is when MJ & RG started yakkin it up on the phone....4 phone calls betw 9'ish, pm on the 25th & 11'ish pm.....THEN 2 more calls shortly after midnight (june 26th).......i'm thinking RG wasn't actually involved in Brooke's murder, but knew about it......

& i agree...if i had been MJ's wife, i'd want to crawl up under a rock, & never show my face again... i sure as hell wouldn't have shown up in court for him, ugh!....i'm still kinda like you though...not sure if AR is telling ALL she knows....if she really wrote those emails, she sure was ready to make Brooke suffer (peeing in her mouth).....was ready for the "tie up/tie down", but wasn't sure she wanted "time with her" (her meaning Brooke).......soooo, sooooo sickening.......

DeltaDawn
07-08-2008, 12:03 PM
Busylady posted this information. I made note of the names.
I think I have this right, if not, someone please correct.

Denise was married to TWO Rice's.
Shawn E Rice 4/7/1990
Scott R Rice 6/10/1997
Yes, brothers


For clarity on AR's Dad just bringing Carrington's post, via Busy's info forward. I believe Shawn is the father of AR.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 12:03 PM
Of course, AR and her BF talked and texted on the cellphone and computer. It would more than abnormal if they did not.

Sam is definitely made up by MJ and AR. Never existed and was only a ruse. I do think that he had a fake myspace or facebook page tho made by MJ or someone else. There is a Sam listed with the Bday the same as Brooke's (which I think is the reason for the fake party), but it is private.

DianeB
07-08-2008, 12:06 PM
Sounds like the fictional (?) 'Sam' was positioned as a friend of AR's boyfriend, if she followed the instructions in one of those emails (J2 "says he talks about you and the party all the time now").

LI_Mom
07-08-2008, 12:07 PM
I've been scratching my head about something since we first heard it and it really bugs me ....

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation as to *WHY* Gagnon EVER admitted to LE, in the first place, that he possessed (any) Porn?? :confused:

When did LE discover RG possessed porn?

Is it possible they found evidence on MJ's computer linking him to RG & LE confronted RG with this fact & told him to start talking?

As for getting Brooke back into the car... it could be a million different things.... her mother/sister/brother had an accident... go back to the house for the cell phone.... Sam called/texted & asked if someone could drop Brooke off....

TisHerself
07-08-2008, 12:08 PM
Well with the wives they live with it's a good bet you're right. But with BTK I was referring to the entire community. By compartmentalize, I mean that he went about his daily life in plain sight for so many years. It did show up in his creepiness with measuring people's grass and handing out citations but I don't think by his apparent weirdness that anyone in his community or church knew he was the infamous BTK killer.
No I agree with you I was talking about their immediate families:)

nanandjim
07-08-2008, 12:08 PM
i'm thinking there never was a Sam, myself....just a name used to get Brooke interested in a "party"....jmo
Maybe, this was a persona created by MJ. Sam could have requested to become a Myspace friend of Brooke's and pretended to be interested in her. Perhaps, Sam said that he lived near her and wanted to meet her. That would probably make Brooke anxious to meet him.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 12:11 PM
snipped....


I personally don't buy into her body language being as stand-offish as many seem to be reading into it. I think it was standard teen body language, when a parent or elder (like uncle creepy) accompanies them into the store to ask the clerk if it's okay if the kid (who probably doesn't think of themselves as a child - 13th birthday upcoming) uses their phone IF their ride doesn't show up. Brooke probably was embarrassed that Unk was even asking that, as she probably was expecting "Sam" to show; plus probably thought she could ask to use the phone herself, if the ride didn't show. Maybe even embarrassed she didn't have her own cell phone with her.

i must agree with you on this...i never found anything odd about her body language in the video, from the very beginning....

Liz
07-08-2008, 12:11 PM
thanks for this update Liz...got fox on now & a pot of coffee brewing:coffeecup:

eta...& also wanted to say thanks Starr, for the pic of Denise....i don't know, but i kinda pictured her looking different...maybe she cleans up good....

YW, close. I just caught up to your post sooo still behind. Got my fresh brew of Gevalia's Traditional Roast. Maybe my brain will kick in now. lol

Carpe - I thought it had been determined that Brooke's cellie was left at home, at her mom's house.

Someone else mentioned AR's real father --- Busylady had located brothers that Denise had married (at different time, lol) and someone else posted today that AR's father is local to the area.

I think .... (therefore I am) lol

close_enough
07-08-2008, 12:12 PM
Maybe, this was a persona created by MJ. Sam could have requested to become a Myspace friend of Brooke's and pretended to be interested in her. Perhaps, Sam said that he lived near her and wanted to meet her. That would probably make Brooke anxious to meet him.

yep, that's what i think, Nan....all very twisted:(

Medea
07-08-2008, 12:12 PM
When did LE discover RG possessed porn?

Is it possible they found evidence on MJ's computer linking him to RG & LE confronted RG with this fact & told him to start talking?

As for getting Brooke back into the car... it could be a million different things.... her mother/sister/brother had an accident... go back to the house for the cell phone.... Sam called/texted & asked if someone could drop Brooke off....

My understanding is they only just found actual evidence of the porn in Alabama.

He admitted to possessing his 5 years of child porn that he claimed was in the safe that Kevin G. claims to have thrown out, but he wasn't charged with any child porn crimes until yesterday.

That was why I initially believed he was NOT involved in any advance planning of Brooke's abduction and murder...he admitted to so many other crimes I felt he was trying to show he was NOT involved in her murder.

Now, I'm not so sure, his flying to Alabama and trying a second time to access her account from a public library is going above and beyond the call of duty if he had no prior knowledge.

CarpeDiem
07-08-2008, 12:12 PM
Of course, AR and her BF talked and texted on the cellphone and computer. It would more than abnormal if they did not.

Sam is definitely made up by MJ and AR. Never existed and was only a ruse. I do think that he had a fake myspace or facebook page tho made by MJ or someone else. There is a Sam listed with the Bday the same as Brooke's (which I think is the reason for the fake party), but it is private.

It's like they pulled a Lori Drew. :confused:

DeltaDawn
07-08-2008, 12:14 PM
YW, close. I just caught up to your post sooo still behind. Got my fresh brew of Gevalia's Traditional Roast. Maybe my brain will kick in now. lol

Carpe - I thought it had been determined that Brooke's cellie was left at home, at her mom's house.

Someone else mentioned AR's real father --- Busylady had located brothers that Denise had married (at different time, lol) and someone else posted today that AR's father is local to the area.

I think .... (therefore I am) lol


Post 201 this thread

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 12:15 PM
i'm thinking there never was a Sam, myself....just a name used to get Brooke interested in a "party"....jmo

Yeah, I didn't spend a lot of time pouring over those communications since in the affidavits FBI said it was Gagnon & Jacques's computers and phone record communications at the time. I think it was all hoaxed by Gagnon & Jacques.

Except maybe for the one msg from JUVENILE 1. But there again she was so 100% totally lied to about everything for her entire life (according to affidavits) she was living in a realm that never existed.

DianeB
07-08-2008, 12:15 PM
I think 'Sam' was intended to be someone who attended a school somewhere in the area but wasn't necessarily from there. The fake 'skittlemeup' email says "I hate that I won't see u til ur classes start again in the fall", which makes me think he was supposed to be older, maybe in college?

close_enough
07-08-2008, 12:16 PM
YW, close. I just caught up to your post sooo still behind. Got my fresh brew of Gevalia's Traditional Roast. Maybe my brain will kick in now. lol

Carpe - I thought it had been determined that Brooke's cellie was left at home, at her mom's house.

Someone else mentioned AR's real father --- Busylady had located brothers that Denise had married (at different time, lol) and someone else posted today that AR's father is local to the area.

I think .... (therefore I am) lol

Gevalia's (french name i can't type, lol)....i always empty the packages & put it in a 'tight lock' canister, after opening....i love this stuff...strong, but soooo good.....cheers!

jnodrog
07-08-2008, 12:19 PM
Just so you all know this Denises place of work is less than 2.5 miles from their home(MJ) home.
would this rape torture etc... take place at home shes only 2.5 miles away???
or she knew or didnt care.
i lean more towards they took her elsewhere.

Allen

LI_Mom
07-08-2008, 12:19 PM
My understanding is they only just found actual evidence of the porn in Alabama.

He admitted to possessing his 5 years of child porn that he claimed was in the safe that Kevin G. claims to have thrown out, but he wasn't charged with any child porn crimes until yesterday.

That was why I initially believed he was NOT involved in any advance planning of Brooke's abduction and murder...he admitted to so many other crimes I felt he was trying to show he was NOT involved in her murder.

Now, I'm not so sure, his flying to Alabama and trying a second time to access her account from a public library is going above and beyond the call of duty if he had no prior knowledge.

No, I mean maybe they find emails from MJ to RG that raise their suspicions. That coupled with the phone calls between the two.

With the FBI working on the case, I'm sure they accessed all sorts of records VERY quickly.

SeriouslySearching
07-08-2008, 12:20 PM
My understanding is they only just found actual evidence of the porn in Alabama.

He admitted to possessing his 5 years of child porn that he claimed was in the safe that Kevin G. claims to have thrown out, but he wasn't charged with any child porn crimes until yesterday.

That was why I initially believed he was NOT involved in any advance planning of Brooke's abduction and murder...he admitted to so many other crimes I felt he was trying to show he was NOT involved in her murder.

Now, I'm not so sure, his flying to Alabama and trying a second time to access her account from a public library is going above and beyond the call of duty if he had no prior knowledge.I will have to go back and look, but I thought RG not only "admitted" to the child porn that he asked KG to dispose of...but it was stated that he STILL had possession of the photos of AR and Juv #2.

cheko1
07-08-2008, 12:22 PM
It's also possible AR's real father is dead OR that Denise never even knew who the 'real' father was.

That could be a real possibility.
But he might not want anyone to know he was involved with that family.

Liz
07-08-2008, 12:22 PM
I think more information will come out AFTER her funeral, perhaps Thursday.

Speaking to that aspect of this case ...

You know how in most cases, with only one perp and one victim, we hear from this neighbor and that co-worker and this classmate and this former boss, on and on, etc etc etc.

Has anyone besides me thought that there is a sort of 'deafening silence' with this case?

I mean, c'mon. With two victims, two boyfriends, and at least two perps and a gazillion in-laws, outlaws and exes, we're just not getting much 2nd person information at all.

Something else I picked up on - that in Cullman and in San Antonio, one neighbor spoke out in each area and both used almost the exact verbage about the two families ("KG, his g/f, her dau, and RG" in San Antonio & "the M. Gagnon family" in Cullman), "they kept to themselves".

jnodrog
07-08-2008, 12:23 PM
I was in the area again today there are a few little logging type roads that head up into the woods on the east side of Crocker Rd. This sugarhouse could be up one of those.

The location of the old shack that IMBY had a picture of doesnt look all that disturbed.

What is thought to be a screen on the roof, looks to me like a porch roof skylight thing, really hard to tell though.

Also there was a person walking the woodline behind the MJ home, and 2 vehicles in the old farmhouse yard, the black one doesnt look like its moved from when i was there saturday, the other a silver vehicle.

Allen

philamena
07-08-2008, 12:23 PM
It was posted earlier today that Denise Jacques was at the hearing yesterday. Why was she there? Seriously, was she there to support her posrapistchildmolesting husband?
IF she was there to support him, she knew about his darkside....and IMO she should be charged.

Medea
07-08-2008, 12:23 PM
I will have to go back and look, but I thought RG not only "admitted" to the child porn that he asked KG to dispose of...but it was stated that he STILL had possession of the photos of AR and Juv #2.

Yes he admitted it, but the evidence to my knowledge was not found, he admitted to having the porn but the porn was not recovered, he admitted to having the photo of AR, but the photo was not recovered.

MCDRAW
07-08-2008, 12:25 PM
I think 'Sam' was intended to be someone who attended a school somewhere in the area but wasn't necessarily from there. The fake 'skittlemeup' email says "I hate that I won't see u til ur classes start again in the fall", which makes me think he was supposed to be older, maybe in college?



I know that there are kids that my kids don't see over the summer break. They may talk to them on the phone but never see. We are a small community so it shouldn't be that way, but it is. :rolleyes:

angelwngs
07-08-2008, 12:25 PM
[quote=nanandjim;2360069]

snip~ Brooke and MJ walk into CF. Brooke stands at the cash register (arms crossed) while MJ buys coffee. Why did she do this? If she were meeting someone, why didn't she just stay outside? Did MJ ask her to wait with him until he bought the coffee? It didn't even look like they said goodbye to one another when they exited the place. It looked choreographed with one going one way; and the other going the other way. end quote~snip

It had to be that MJ needed to make sure there was a witness in the clerk of the store seeing him drop her off there and by even asking the clerk if she could use the store phone if the boy did not pick her up there... MJ wanted a witness and he convinced Brooke to go in with him using his lies.
Obviously, Brooke's hinky meter was already going off. We see it in the video in her body language with her arms crossed and did not look happy.

Medea
07-08-2008, 12:25 PM
Just so you all know this Denises place of work is less than 2.5 miles from their home(MJ) home.
would this rape torture etc... take place at home shes only 2.5 miles away???
or she knew or didnt care.
i lean more towards they took her elsewhere.

Allen


He's been abusing AR for 5 years in the house he shares with Denise, she has found lubricant, porn, sex toys and her daughter in a towel upstairs with Jacques and a dry shower...and none of this apparently registered with her, so why would Jacques worry about her?

philamena
07-08-2008, 12:26 PM
Just so you all know this Denises place of work is less than 2.5 miles from their home(MJ) home.
would this rape torture etc... take place at home shes only 2.5 miles away???
or she knew or didnt care.
i lean more towards they took her elsewhere.

Allen

I'm leaning towards her knowing.:mad:
Either she ignored her husband's perversion or she accepted it. Imo it was the latter.:furious:

close_enough
07-08-2008, 12:26 PM
My understanding is they only just found actual evidence of the porn in Alabama.

He admitted to possessing his 5 years of child porn that he claimed was in the safe that Kevin G. claims to have thrown out, but he wasn't charged with any child porn crimes until yesterday.

That was why I initially believed he was NOT involved in any advance planning of Brooke's abduction and murder...he admitted to so many other crimes I felt he was trying to show he was NOT involved in her murder.

Now, I'm not so sure, his flying to Alabama and trying a second time to access her account from a public library is going above and beyond the call of duty if he had no prior knowledge.

exactly, Medea....we're on the same page...i don't think he actually had anything to DO with Brooke's murder, but i now think he knew about it...he knew about the kidnapping plan, & if he didn't know about her murder prior, he certainly knew immediately afterward, IMO

eta...all the phone calls betw him & MJ shortly after Brooke was reported "missing", then two more calls just after midnight on the 26th....THEN RG gets a plane on the 26th to Alabama, & gets into Brooke's myspace....very very very suspicious...hard to believe he had no knowledge of what was going down....

Chica
07-08-2008, 12:27 PM
Just so you all know this Denises place of work is less than 2.5 miles from their home(MJ) home.
would this rape torture etc... take place at home shes only 2.5 miles away???
or she knew or didnt care.
i lean more towards they took her elsewhere.

Allen

Or perhaps Denise was out of town on business? I remember reading that she traveled for business...

Liz
07-08-2008, 12:28 PM
Post 201 this thread

Thanks, dd.
I'm only up to #169.
Maybe I need to read backwards. lol :crazy:

jnodrog
07-08-2008, 12:28 PM
I'm leaning towards her knowing.:mad:
Either she ignored her husband's perversion or she accepted it. Imo it was the latter.:furious:
I know a couple local ppl that only live down the road have said they think shes involved.


Allen

MistyGirl
07-08-2008, 12:30 PM
It was posted earlier today that Denise Jacques was at the hearing yesterday. Why was she there? Seriously, was she there to support her posrapistchildmolesting husband?
IF she was there to support him, she knew about his darkside....and IMO she should be charged.

I too have been very curious about her involvement. I mean wouldn't you be there supporting your sister who's daughter was just killed by your husband?!?!?!?!?!? I would be..... UNLESS I knew what sick terrible things my husband was involved in.........

Did Denise know about his prior kidknapping charge? I wonder how long they were married?

One other questions is "Juvinelle 1" the same as "AR" & do we know how "AR" was related to MJ & Denise...was it their child, MJ Step Child & Denise Bio Child????

If I missed that some where sorry...the thread is moving so fast hard to keep up

close_enough
07-08-2008, 12:30 PM
He's been abusing AR for 5 years in the house he shares with Denise, she has found lubricant, porn, sex toys and her daughter in a towel upstairs with Jacques and a dry shower...and none of this apparently registered with her, so why would Jacques worry about her?

i'd like about 30 minutes in a room, alone with Denise:furious:

IMBY
07-08-2008, 12:31 PM
Seems to me that you can't have it both ways...

Some seem to think that there is some huge child porn operation that has been going on for years, including filming, sale, distribution, ties to russian porn industry, etc..

However, the ineptitude with regard to computers/internet of the part of these guys is pretty staggering:

Logging in to someone else's myspace account from a public library (and/or from your home/work computer)?!?
Telling LE "Oh yeah, by the way, I *did* have child porn, but it's gone now." Hello?!? why even mention it if he thought that it had been "disposed of"?

Even if these guys were involved in just VIEWING/downloading child porn for any length of time, you would think that they would have to know about IP address anonymizers (as mentioned in these threads), etc, etc. I would expect that if they wanted to distribute this stuff, their potential "customers" would try to make sure that they at least knew what they were doing.

Certainly doesn't sound like "big time", to me.

Medea
07-08-2008, 12:31 PM
exactly, Medea....we're on the same page...i don't think he actually had anything to DO with Brooke's murder, but i now think he knew about it...he knew about the kidnapping plan, & if he didn't know about her murder prior, he certainly knew immediately afterward, IMO

eta...all the phone calls betw him & MJ shortly after Brooke was reported "missing", then two more calls just after midnight on the 26th....THEN RG gets a plane on the 26th to Alabama, & gets into Brooke's myspace....very very very suspicious...hard to believe he had no knowledge of what was going down....


Yeah, I had initially thought he helped Jacques to protect himself...Jacques threatened that if he was caught he would tell LE about Gagnon and AR and Gangon's porn stash...but after thinking about it more, I believe he's done too much to just be in cover up mode for Jacques.

He could have refused to help Jacques and then destroyed all of his porn. How then could Jacques have harmed him? It would only be the word of a child rapist and killer againt his. His porn and photos of AR would be gone. AR is already pretty far gone...he could have denied it.

Instead, he involved himself in conspiracy to cover up a murder.

But, these two are SO DUMB,, there is no telling at this point what the truth is of what Gagnon did or did not know in advance.

DianeB
07-08-2008, 12:32 PM
his flying to Alabama and trying a second time to access her account from a public library is going above and beyond the call of duty if he had no prior knowledge.

Even if he didn't know in advance what was going to happen or thought something else was going to happen, there must have been some pretty intense discussions happening during those SIX phone calls on the night that Brooke was reported missing.

To me, the most telling are the 20+ minute phone call between MJ and RG just before Jacques called the detective at 1AM to check on the progress of the investigation, followed by another 20+ minute phone call between them immediately thereafter.

Maybe that's when the decision was made for Gagnon to go to Alabama the following day. At this point, Moe and Larry may have been making up the coverup plan as they went along.

Taximom
07-08-2008, 12:33 PM
I too have been very curious about her involvement. I mean wouldn't you be there supporting your sister who's daughter was just killed by your husband?!?!?!?!?!? I would be..... UNLESS I knew what sick terrible things my husband was involved in.........

Did Denise know about his prior kidknapping charge? I wonder how long they were married?

One other questions is "Juvinelle 1" the same as "AR" & do we know how "AR" was related to MJ & Denise...was it their child, MJ Step Child & Denise Bio Child????

If I missed that some where sorry...the thread is moving so fast hard to keep up

IIRC, I believe that same article said that the woman Denise was with showed quite a bit of emotion. So maybe she was there with her sister.

Medea
07-08-2008, 12:34 PM
Seems to me that you can't have it both ways...

Some seem to think that there is some huge child porn operation that has been going on for years, including filming, sale, distribution, ties to russian porn industry, etc..

However, the ineptitude with regard to computers/internet of the part of these guys is pretty staggering:

Logging in to someone else's myspace account from a public library (and/or from your home/work computer)?!?
Telling LE "Oh yeah, by the way, I *did* have child porn, but it's gone now." Hello?!? why even mention it if he thought that it had been "disposed of"?

Even if these guys were involved in just VIEWING/downloading child porn for any length of time, you would think that they would have to know about IP address anonymizers (as mentioned in these threads), etc, etc. I would expect that if they wanted to distribute this stuff, their potential "customers" would try to make sure that they at least knew what they were doing.

Certainly doesn't sound like "big time", to me.

That's what I think. I don't see anything approaching the level of sophisticated needed to operate a child pornography distribution ring.

DianeB
07-08-2008, 12:34 PM
We see it in the video in her body language with her arms crossed and did not look happy. Maybe she thought 'Sam' would be waiting for her in Cumberlands?

Adalena935
07-08-2008, 12:35 PM
My understanding is they only just found actual evidence of the porn in Alabama.

He admitted to possessing his 5 years of child porn that he claimed was in the safe that Kevin G. claims to have thrown out, but he wasn't charged with any child porn crimes until yesterday.

That was why I initially believed he was NOT involved in any advance planning of Brooke's abduction and murder...he admitted to so many other crimes I felt he was trying to show he was NOT involved in her murder.

Now, I'm not so sure, his flying to Alabama and trying a second time to access her account from a public library is going above and beyond the call of duty if he had no prior knowledge.

I thought Gagnon was in deep from the get go. The reason he pal'd around with an ex-con felon violent rapist is because he *likes* that. my opinion

Chica
07-08-2008, 12:35 PM
I too have been very curious about her involvement. I mean wouldn't you be there supporting your sister who's daughter was just killed by your husband?!?!?!?!?!? I would be..... UNLESS I knew what sick terrible things my husband was involved in.........

Did Denise know about his prior kidknapping charge? I wonder how long they were married?

One other questions is "Juvinelle 1" the same as "AR" & do we know how "AR" was related to MJ & Denise...was it their child, MJ Step Child & Denise Bio Child????

If I missed that some where sorry...the thread is moving so fast hard to keep up


Hey Misty - MN here too!

Juvenile 1 is AR, and AR is Denise's daughter, and MJ's step-daughter.

philamena
07-08-2008, 12:37 PM
I too have been very curious about her involvement. I mean wouldn't you be there supporting your sister who's daughter was just killed by your husband?!?!?!?!?!? I would be..... UNLESS I knew what sick terrible things my husband was involved in.........
SNIP

Absolutely MistyGirl.
Surely Denise knew her husband was a RSO.:furious:

DianeB
07-08-2008, 12:37 PM
How then could Jacques have harmed him? It would only be the word of a child rapist and killer againt his. His porn and photos of AR would be gone. AR is already pretty far gone...he could have denied it.
Maybe Jacques had photos of their encounter with AR the previous year?

Liz
07-08-2008, 12:39 PM
Oh sure. I think he was trying to save himself by snitching off Jacques. Trying to cop a plea deal. I'm not saying he did, just that he was hoping and trying. Not to get out of prosecution for himself completely but to beg off anything he can. A child is murdered and that's no small matter. In the end he may get life and Mj death penalty. He'll testify against Jacques in my opinion and get a lesser sentence for his cooperation.

I don't know. I still can't see *why* when he was contacted by LE that he would spill his guts about having 5 years worth of Russian child porn on his computer and immediately implicate himself, when he had no prior record. I mean he could have just said, I was doing my ex-bil a favor, trying to change some dates on my step daughter's my space account. And why was he so explicit about the type of porn?

UNless, for some reason, RG knows IF he doesn't implicate himself and get himself arrested and incarcerated into protective custody of sorts, he's going to be one big fat dead duck.

KWIM?

MistyGirl
07-08-2008, 12:41 PM
Hey Misty - MN here too!

Juvenile 1 is AR, and AR is Denise's daughter, and MJ's step-daughter.

Hi Chica - Thanks for the info, I was trying to piece this all together.

As far as Denise goes is I were "her" and had NO prior knowledge of my husband sexually abusing my daughter and found out he had been for 5 years and sexually abused & KILLED my niece.....you wouldn't see me standing by the POS in a court room....BUT you wold hear my sreaming from my lungs I want the harshest punishment possilbe and I didn't know and had no involvement what so ever.

I think she knew WAYYYYYY more and it will come out soon......

MN what a great place :-)

becca
07-08-2008, 12:41 PM
I don't know. I still can't see *why* when he was contacted by LE that he would spill his guts about having 5 years worth of Russian child porn on his computer and immediately implicate himself, when he had no prior record. I mean he could have just said, I was doing my ex-bil a favor, trying to change some dates on my step daughter's my space account. And why was he so explicit about the type of porn?

UNless, for some reason, RG knows IF he doesn't implicate himself and get himself arrested and incarcerated into protective custody of sorts, he's going to be one big fat dead duck.

KWIM?

That could be why so little info is coming out about who else might be arrested. There are others that know what is going on and how deep this "ring" goes.

MCDRAW
07-08-2008, 12:42 PM
Just so you all know this Denises place of work is less than 2.5 miles from their home(MJ) home.
would this rape torture etc... take place at home shes only 2.5 miles away???
or she knew or didnt care.
i lean more towards they took her elsewhere.

Allen


I'm sure he knew her work habits. But I really think he took her somewhere else.

close_enough
07-08-2008, 12:44 PM
That's what I think. I don't see anything approaching the level of sophisticated needed to operate a child pornography distribution ring.

i don't either, but it's possible they were "wannabe sophisticated"......just sickening....i don't know how many times to say that word...sickening!...i must say though, i'm glad all these folks are, for the most part, stuck on stupid....

Chica
07-08-2008, 12:45 PM
Maybe Jacques had photos of their encounter with AR the previous year?

That's what I am thinking too...

philamena
07-08-2008, 12:46 PM
That could be why so little info is coming out about who else might be arrested. There are others that know what is going on and how deep this "ring" goes.

I agree!