Brooke Bennett, 12 years old Randolph VT #15

[christine2448]

Please continue here.

NOTE!! PAY ATTENTION TO THIS...IF ANY POSTER POSTS A MINORS NAME IN THIS FORUM, FOR ANY REASON, YOU WILL BE PUT IN TIME OUT FOR UNDETERMINED AMOUNT OF TIME.

I am going to go and clean up thread #14....I have been getting alerts you all are posting names of minors. Let's stop that right now.

Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.

[close_enough]

cool DS....thanks for your continued work with getting us a picture!

[dark_shadows]

I hit the reply button on thread #14 and the thread was closed.
So here it is;


DS....is this the same picture you have?..the one that's on the front page of the burlingtonfreepress, this morning?


My dearest Close,:blowkiss:
Yes, that is the same one. I have 2 copies of the Burlington Free Press and that is what I was going to post.
I am working on a current photo.

So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Chica]

Thank-you my dearest Chica,:blowkiss:
I was going to post that here when I got home. That is an old photo of Gagnon. I am working on getting an updated one.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Thank you so much ds - you are the BESTEST!:blowkiss:

[SuziQ]

DS, any help you can provide in getting us the mysteriously witheld mugshot would be fantastic! From your experience with the prison system, any thoughts on why is it hasn't been released?

[Tom'sGirl]

Please continue here.

NOTE!! PAY ATTENTION TO THIS...IF ANY POSTER POSTS A MINORS NAME IN THIS FORUM, FOR ANY REASON, YOU WILL BE PUT IN TIME OUT FOR UNDETERMINED AMOUNT OF TIME.

I am going to go and clean up thread #14....I have been getting Pm's you all are posting names of minors. Let's stop that right now.

Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.
Thank you christine, and that would apply also to posting photos in the MySpace link also............right?

[close_enough]

bringing this slideshow over, thanks to Liz & Phil:)

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BT&Date=20080702&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=807020801&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=1

[Medea]

DS, any help you can provide in getting us the mysteriously witheld mugshot would be fantastic! From your experience with the prison system, any thoughts on why is it hasn't been released?


Could it be the difference in the Feds and local police? Same reason why no cameras in Federal Court, different procedures.

[christine2448]

Thank you christine, and that would apply also to posting photos in the MySpace link also............right?

Yes. This is totally not needed IMO. I don't see how posting minor's names, info, myspaces will help move this case along.

[Dante7]

>in the comments, someone knows (from a source they refuse to quote) that >Denise walked in on MJ and AR in the act and walked out and never said >anything.

Well, so far, I'd count that as potentially interesting, but hearsay at thisa point. I'd personally wait for further evidence here. Anyone can say anything they want to on the Net. As this was a random commentor on a site, I don't see reason to put belief in it just yet.

[close_enough]

Could it be the difference in the Feds and local police? Same reason why no cameras in Federal Court, different procedures.

why do we have a pic of MJ in court, but not one of RG in court?...the feds vs local also? (confused)

[SuziQ]

Anyone unrelated to this case who used the seized computers for nefarious purposes is going to be in alot of trouble. (audio was horrible for me)

Library seized in step-father's arrest.

http://www.wptz.com/news/16809513/detail.html#

[evelyn24]

Please continue here.

NOTE!! PAY ATTENTION TO THIS...IF ANY POSTER POSTS A MINORS NAME IN THIS FORUM, FOR ANY REASON, YOU WILL BE PUT IN TIME OUT FOR UNDETERMINED AMOUNT OF TIME.

I am going to go and clean up thread #14....I have been getting Pm's you all are posting names of minors. Let's stop that right now.

Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.

Someone just posted what we knew a long time ago..the name of MJ's sister, who is definitely not a minor anymore.
I think someone took issue with that, because MJ's sister is a victim of sexual abuse....allegedly.
That is what started the entire "don't post the name of a minor" talk.
Other than MJ's sister being named, I don't think anybody posted the name of a minor in the last thread.

May I ask a question though, Savanna's name has been mentioned a million times and nobody seems to care, including the mods and admin.
I guess I'm not clear on when it's fine to mention a minor's name and when it's not.
Thanks.

[VTGirl007]

I wanted to reply to this from the last thread, posted by VTNance:

"It's also true that when an entire family closes ranks and covers up/enables this kind of thing, it is often hard for outsiders to do anything to change the situation, even if they know/suspect that something is wrong. MJ's past was known, but he was legally free; DJ married him of her own free will and ignore the obvious signs of abuse; AR was well-trained to keep her secrets; Brooke was allowed to spend time at the home of an RSO. Even if outsiders are troubled by the situation, they may not be able to effectively intervene in a situation as dysfunctional as this one."

Perhaps- but if someone heard that Denise walked in on them in the act, they should have reported it. Even if it went nowhere that doesn't mean that it's ok not to even try. That's the exact mentality that allows these kinds of things to go on for generations. Nobody wants this kind of thing to blow up in their perfect little town.

(This is purely my opinion and in no way do I mean to say that you are not entitled to yours)

As a child who is the third generation of a very dysfunctional family (these kinds of things happened to my grandmother, who then allowed them to happen to my mother -to a lesser extent- and her older sisters, and sadly it has happened to some of my older cousins) I have to say "we couldn't have helped anyway" just doesn't cut it. It finally stopped with my cousin when she told a friend that she thought she was pregnant. The friend told her mom and the mom called the police. My aunt's ex-husband spent a very long time in jail.

The only helpless ones are the victims.

ETA: This was not in Vermont

[close_enough]

Anyone unrelated to this case who used the seized computers for nefarious purposes is going to be in alot of trouble. (audio was horrible for me)

Library seized in step-father's arrest.

http://www.wptz.com/news/16809513/detail.html#

got the video, but no audio at all here, for some reason....

eta..but thanks for the link to the article

[close_enough]

Someone just posted what we knew a long time ago..the name of MJ's sister, who is definitely not a minor anymore.
I think someone took issue with that, because MJ's sister is a victim of sexual abuse....allegedly.
That is what started the entire "don't post the name of a minor" talk.
Other than MJ's sister being named, I don't think anybody has posted the names of a minor in the last thread.

May I ask a question though, Savanna's name has been mentioned a million times and nobody seems to care, including the mods and admin.
I guess I'm not clear on when it's fine to mention a minor's name and when it's not.
Thanks.

honestly i don't understand either.....no minors names were mentioned, & the one that IS a minor - (AR's sister) her name wasn't mentioned....only that it's not "Ashley"......

[VTNance]

I wanted to reply to this from the last thread, posted by VTNance:


Perhaps- but if someone heard that Denise walked in on them in the act, they should have reported it. Even if it went nowhere that doesn't mean that it's ok not to even try. That's the exact mentality that allows these kinds of things to go on for generations. Nobody wants this kind of thing to blow up in their perfect little town.


I agree with you 1000%, if someone heard something like that they should have reported it. What I meant is when you know a situation is a bad one, but you have no evidence--or the family denies it when questioned by DSS-- and you can legally do nothing more, except keep watching for an opportunity to legally intervene.

I am sorry for what happened in your family, and I didn't mean that people shouldn't try.

[evelyn24]

honestly i don't understand either.....no minors names were mentioned, & the one that IS a minor - (AR's sister) her name wasn't mentioned....only that it's not "Ashley"......

I know, they said her first initial and that was it. I'm not sure why someone sent PM's saying people were naming minors, but whatever.
I don't mention any names unless I've seen them mentioned first, and I then assume it's ok.
*shrugs*

[Tom'sGirl]

May I ask a question though, Savanna's name has been mentioned a million times and nobody seems to care, including the mods and admin.
I guess I'm not clear on when it's fine to mention a minor's name and when it's not.
Thanks.
The rule of thumb always used in the past was IF a minors name has been revealed in the Media, then it's okay, IF NOT...........don't mention the name.

Savanna is not a minor, and has been on Nat'l TV.

In the case against Chester Stiles, we knew the victims name and her mothers, but it hadn't been published in the media. We also had/have numerious photos from the families involved from their PB account, but could not post them as it involved MINORS.

[SuziQ]

got the video, but no audio at all here, for some reason....

eta..but thanks for the link to the article

Whew, glad it wasn't just me. I was beginning to think I was going to have to add audio to the other list of computer problems I've been having.

[Medea]

I know, they said her first initial and that was it. I'm not sure why someone sent PM's saying people were naming minors, but whatever.
I don't mention any names unless I've seen them mentioned first, and I then assume it's ok.
*shrugs*


I started the discussion after I saw the name of Jacques sister, who is an allged victim of sexual assault, and right after saw the first name of someone who may or may not be a former boyfriend of AR, who some thought was the first name of Juvenile 2, and right after that saw a post about having the name of AR's minor sister.

But I didn't PM the moderators.

[DeltaDawn]

Anyone unrelated to this case who used the seized computers for nefarious purposes is going to be in alot of trouble. (audio was horrible for me)

Library seized in step-father's arrest.

http://www.wptz.com/news/16809513/detail.html#


I didn't get any audio at all. Maybe they will fix it and put the audio back up when they are done.

[DianeB]

May I ask a question though, Savanna's name has been mentioned a million times and nobody seems to care, including the mods and admin.

I guess I'm not clear on when it's fine to mention a minor's name and when it's not. I think the situation with Savanna is different - there have been no allegations of abuse against her and she's appeared on national TV news stories about her sister. I'm also not sure she's a minor - isn't she in college?

I agree that there's no need to know the names of any minors who may be victims in this case. I do hope that any kids at risk have been taken out of whatever living situation they're in.

[close_enough]

The rule of thumb always used in the past was IF a minors name has been revealed in the Media, then it's okay, IF NOT...........don't mention the name.

Savanna is not a minor, and has been on Nat'l TV.

In the case against Chester Stiles, we knew the victims name and her mothers, but it hadn't been published in the media. We also had/have numerious photos from the families involved from their PB account, but could not post them as it involved MINORS.

so we know AR's name?...how do we even know AR is her initials?....(i guess i'm really confused on this one)....doesn't matter anyway...i'm shrugging along with evelyn, lol......i'm moving on:)

[christine2448]

Someone just posted what we knew a long time ago..the name of MJ's sister, who is definitely not a minor anymore.
I think someone took issue with that, because MJ's sister is a victim of sexual abuse....allegedly.
That is what started the entire "don't post the name of a minor" talk.
Other than MJ's sister being named, I don't think anybody posted the name of a minor in the last thread.

May I ask a question though, Savanna's name has been mentioned a million times and nobody seems to care, including the mods and admin.
I guess I'm not clear on when it's fine to mention a minor's name and when it's not.
Thanks.

I have not seen that about 'Savannah'...if you see a minors name posted that I have missed, please PM post # or link to post if you know how (click the post #, new window opens, copy info in address bar and paste into PM).

The first post in this thread makes it very clear. Forget about what was going on before, go from here and follow the rule in that post. TIA.

[Amster]

I guess I missed it....been on the thread all day and totally missed any minors being named....

[dark_shadows]

I didn't get any audio at all. Maybe they will fix it and put the audio back up when they are done.
My very dearest DeltaDawn,:blowkiss:
I have audio and they said that there are 20 computers that were seized from the library.



love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[VTGirl007]

I agree with you 1000%, if someone heard something like that they should have reported it. What I meant is when you know a situation is a bad one, but you have no evidence--or the family denies it when questioned by DSS-- and you can legally do nothing more, except keep watching for an opportunity to legally intervene.

I am sorry for what happened in your family, and I didn't mean that people shouldn't try.

Thank you. And yes, that's true. You can't go calling family services every time you hear a rumor, but if/when you hear something that extreme, it's better safe than sorry.

[close_enough]

I started the discussion after I saw the name of Jacques sister, who is an allged victim of sexual assault, and right after saw the first name of someone who may or may not be a former boyfriend of AR, who some thought was the first name of Juvenile 2, and right after that saw a post about having the name of AR's minor sister.

But I didn't PM the moderators.

it doesn't matter Medea:)...i think we can get past this, & go by the rules...btw, i'm enjoying reading your posts...lots of food for thought...

[DianeB]

"AR" are the initials used in the affidavits to identify 'juvenile 1'.

A search for information about Jacques' wife, Denise, reveals a prior marriage to someone whose last name starts with 'R'.

I think the first name is or was mentioned on someone's myspace page?

[evelyn24]

The rule of thumb always used in the past was IF a minors name has been revealed in the Media, then it's okay, IF NOT...........don't mention the name.

Savanna is not a minor, and has been on Nat'l TV.

In the case against Chester Stiles, we knew the victims name and her mothers, but it hadn't been published in the media. We also had/have numerious photos from the families involved from their PB account, but could not post them as it involved MINORS.
oh ok my mistake, I thought Savanna was under 18.

However, MJ's sister is currently not a minor.
If I'm not mistaken this entire complaint started over a poster who is a local in Vermont telling us MJ's sister name.
Someone thought it was wrong, because she (MJ's sister) was sexually abused as a minor...I can understand that, but she's currently a grown woman now.
Also, according to the Vermont poster she is very very close with MJ and was in court when he (MJ) was arraigned.
I don't see why mentioning her name was a big deal.
:confused:

I don't see an issue with not naming minors, I'm fine with initials, or whatever. I'm mostly interested in the adults in this case!

:)

[Taximom]

Anyone unrelated to this case who used the seized computers for nefarious purposes is going to be in alot of trouble. (audio was horrible for me)

Library seized in step-father's arrest.

http://www.wptz.com/news/16809513/detail.html#

I thought the whole library had been seized! Just the computers though.

[Taximom]

((Mods))

[DianeB]

Wait - I thought the sister who had been abused 20 years ago but refused to file charges had later committed suicide. No?

[close_enough]

"AR" are the initials used in the affidavits to identify 'juvenile 1'.

A search for information about Jacques' wife, Denise, reveals a prior marriage to someone whose last name starts with 'R'.

I think the first name is or was mentioned on someone's myspace page?

ahhhh, ok.....got it, Diane, & thanks:)

[Tom'sGirl]

so we know AR's name?...how do we even know AR is her initials?....(i guess i'm really confused on this one)....doesn't matter anyway...i'm shrugging along with evelyn, lol......i'm moving on:)

LOL, Christine will attest to the fact that I have never contacted her or other regarding this matter. I left it up to the MODS, Christine & Adnoid. I just kept reading along, I'm a poster, not a MOD.

There has been a name associated to AR's first name & photos in the MySpace link.

[close_enough]

Wait - I thought the sister who had been abused 20 years ago but refused to file charges had later committed suicide. No?

welllllll, i don't think we actually know this, but it's a possibility...?

that's what i've gotten out of reading the last couple of days...

[dark_shadows]

I thought the whole library had been seized! Just the computers though.
My very dearest Taximom,:blowkiss:
Yes, I was giving the amount of the computers taken.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[evelyn24]

Wait - I thought the sister who had been abused 20 years ago but refused to file charges had later committed suicide. No?

Oh really? Man, I missed that. This case is so very sorted.
I just know what someone posted in thread #14...that's she's alive and is still supportive of her brother. At least that's the way I read it.
:confused:

[close_enough]

LOL, Christine will attest to the fact that I have never contacted her or other regarding this matter. I left it up to the MODS, Christine & Adnoid. I just kept reading along, I'm a poster, not a MOD.

There has been a name associated to AR's first name & photos in the MySpace link.

nooooooo, i know you're not a mod TG (but probably should be, imo).....i honestly don't care who pm'd Christine...does not matter at all...they have every right to do so, if something is making them feel uncomfortable here....i thought everything was going pretty well in the last thread though....jmo:blowkiss:

just confused how we can know AR's name....i missed all that in the beginning of this case.....i've been set straight by you & Diane now on that one:D

[Medea]

Oh really? Man, I missed that. This case is so very sorted.
I just know what someone posted in thread #14...that's she's alive and is still supportive of her brother. At least that's the way I read it.
:confused:

Both versions have been posted, she killed herself and she was in court crying.... as well as the idea that Jacques father raped the sister and Jacques...which I have little trouble believing...but as far as there being any actual evidence of same, I don't think there is. I haven't seen anything about Jacques father ever being charged with abusing his children or any relatives. As far as I know it hasn't even been confirmed that the "relative" spoken of in the media was/is his sister, but it's a reasonable conclusion.

[DeltaDawn]

My very dearest DeltaDawn,:blowkiss:
I have audio and they said that there are 20 computers that were seized from the library.



love and Respect,
dark_shadows


Dearest ds,

Thank you so much for that info.

I suppose they seized all 20 from the library in Cullman? Do they think he used all of them at some point in time for this dirty scam of kiddie porn? Or did they seize them to look at all the hard drives to see which one he used and keep that one?

Thank you for your kind help, ds!

DD

[VTNance]

Thank you. And yes, that's true. You can't go calling family services every time you hear a rumor, but if/when you hear something that extreme, it's better safe than sorry.

I was really thinking about the situation in general (juveniles being in the house with known SO), not that specific incident where someone allegedlly was told something specific and did not report it. I was only trying to say this is a frustrating situation to be in, when you feel that things are not right but you don't have any proof.

Again, I agree with you completely that if anything is known, it should be reported, no matter how hard that might be because of family/small-town dynamics.

[close_enough]

My very dearest Taximom,:blowkiss:
Yes, I was giving the amount of the computers taken.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

they probably took all of the computers out of that library in AL, right?...where RG used to get on Brooke's myspace acct?...ya think?

[evelyn24]

they probably took all of the computers out of that library in AL, right?...where RG used to get on Brooke's myspace acct?...ya think?

Do you think they'd take all of them out?
I tell ya', I'm still shocked these fools left such an electronic trail. Thank goodness they did, but wow!

[DeltaDawn]

I still have to chuckle at the fact that Ray was dumb enough to go to the public library, sign a sheet authorizing his use, then log on and think the Feds wouldn't know.

[close_enough]

Do you think they'd take all of them out?
I tell ya', I'm still shocked these fools left such an electronic trail. Thank goodness they did, but wow!

well, i'm not all that computer sauvy (sp?) but maybe that was the only way to check which ones he used?..maybe he'd been using them off & on for a long time...(different computers each time, at the library)...does that make sense?

[Medea]

I still have to chuckle at the fact that Ray was dumb enough to go to the public library, sign a sheet authorizing his use, then log on and think the Feds wouldn't know.

And I am dumbstruck by the fact that he was helping to cover up a murder and yet he still does not destroy his pornography collection in Alabama, and at this point, I suspect his Texas porn was given to someone else for safekeeping not thrown away in a dumpster.

[close_enough]

I still have to chuckle at the fact that Ray was dumb enough to go to the public library, sign a sheet authorizing his use, then log on and think the Feds wouldn't know.

me too DD:)
& am thankful he was...

[DeltaDawn]

I still think that Denise should be held somewhat responsible for what happened to Brooke and to her own daughter AR. I don't think that allowing AR to go on car dates when she was only 14 with boys old enough to drive was responsible at all. But , I don't think it was responsible of her as a mother to marry a RSO when she had a young daughter in the home. I feel the same way about Brooke's mom.

And what did these 2 adult women see in these men that are so obviously attracted to young girls? And they are from the same family? Something very disturbing to me is are their other vics and if so are they too ashamed or hurt to come forward now?

[evelyn24]

well, i'm not all that computer sauvy (sp?) but maybe that was the only way to check which ones he used?..maybe he'd been using them off & on for a long time...(different computers each time, at the library)...does that make sense?

It's been a few years since I've used a library computer, but the last time I used one they do make you show your library card, and then you sign a sheet with your name on it. I can't remember if the PC number you're using is on the sign in sheet next to your name, though. I know all the PC"s have a number....PC #1, #2 ,#3..etc. At least that's how it is at my local library.

[Medea]

I still think that Denise should be held somewhat responsible for what happened to Brooke and to her own daughter AR. I don't think that allowing AR to go on car dates when she was only 14 with boys old enough to drive was responsible at all. But , I don't think it was responsible of her as a mother to marry a RSO when she had a young daughter in the home. I feel the same way about Brooke's mom.

And what did these 2 adult women see in these men that are so obviously attracted to young girls? And they are from the same family? Something very disturbing to me is are their other vics and if so are they too ashamed or hurt to come forward now?

My guess is that both Denise and Cassandra were themselves abused..the odds of two sisters raised in a healthy household who both married pedophiles that abused their children must be astronomical.

[DeltaDawn]

And I am dumbstruck by the fact that he was helping to cover up a murder and yet he still does not destroy his pornography collection in Alabama, and at this point, I suspect his Texas porn was given to someone else for safekeeping not thrown away in a dumpster.


And they wouldn't of even known about Texas if Ray hadn't been there fiddling with the emails, etc before he left for Cullman...that's how they ended up at Kevin's doorstep..it was his ISP. What a bunch of complete idiots. No wonder Kevin starting talking so fast...I bet he has some tales to tell the FBI.

[close_enough]

I still think that Denise should be held somewhat responsible for what happened to Brooke and to her own daughter AR. I don't think that allowing AR to go on car dates when she was only 14 with boys old enough to drive was responsible at all. But , I don't think it was responsible of her as a mother to marry a RSO when she had a young daughter in the home. I feel the same way about Brooke's mom.

And what did these 2 adult women see in these men that are so obviously attracted to young girls? And they are from the same family? Something very disturbing to me is are their other vics and if so are they too ashamed or hurt to come forward now?

pedophiles are a very sneaky lot...very manipulating, if they find the 'right' person to manipulate....(meaning the wives)

but i still can't get past AR's mother finding lube, sex toys, & her own husband & AR in towels when the shower is dry:confused::mad:

[close_enough]

It's been a few years since I've used a library computer, but the last time I used one they do make you show your library card, and then you sign a sheet with your name on it. I can't remember if the PC number you're using is on the sign in sheet next to your name, though. I know all the PC"s have a number....PC #1, #2 ,#3..etc. At least that's how it is at my local library.

thanks, that's interesting...i've never used a computer at a library before....makes sense to me

[ShinaLite]

My guess is that both Denise and Cassandra were themselves abused..the odds of two sisters raised in a healthy household who both married pedophiles that abused their children must be astronomical.

I agree Medea...It also makes me think about AR and how if she doesn't receive some type of very intenstive therapy this sort of cycle could continue in her adult life as well....

[Jaded]

I still think that Denise should be held somewhat responsible for what happened to Brooke and to her own daughter AR. I don't think that allowing AR to go on car dates when she was only 14 with boys old enough to drive was responsible at all. But , I don't think it was responsible of her as a mother to marry a RSO when she had a young daughter in the home. I feel the same way about Brooke's mom.

And what did these 2 adult women see in these men that are so obviously attracted to young girls? And they are from the same family? Something very disturbing to me is are their other vics and if so are they too ashamed or hurt to come forward now?

I'm starting to get the feeling that Denise and her sister are very subservient women, and pedos prey on these types of women. As far as DJ marrying a pedophile, it makes me ill -- she's no dummy, there is enough information on television, in the papers, etc., that she should KNOW that there was an inherent risk that her own daughter may be violated by this piece of human excrement!

[nanandjim]

I guess I missed it....been on the thread all day and totally missed any minors being named....
Get used to it, Amster. When you get a bunch of female posters, it doesn't take much to start a ruckus and keep it going and going and going... :rolleyes:

Now, I hope that we can return to the subject at hand.

[close_enough]

My guess is that both Denise and Cassandra were themselves abused..the odds of two sisters raised in a healthy household who both married pedophiles that abused their children must be astronomical.

astronomical is right!

gosh, i've got to get at least a couple of errands done around here today....later folks

[nanandjim]

I'm starting to get the feeling that Denise and her sister are very subservient women, and pedos prey on these types of women. As far as DJ marrying a pedophile, it makes me ill -- she's no dummy, there is enough information on television, in the papers, etc., that she should KNOW that there was an inherent risk that her own daughter may be violated by this piece of human excrement!
I was almost willing to give her a little bit of a pass until I discovered that she worked with her husband's sister, the one that was repeatedly molested by his father and by him. I strongly suspect that she accompanied the sister to the hearing. Something is not right with DJ. Now, it has all but ruined the life of her daughter. I just do not see how AR can recover, but I hope that she can.

[Jaded]

I was almost willing to give her a little bit of a pass until I discovered that she worked with her husband's sister, the one that was repeatedly molested by his father and by him. I strongly suspect that she accompanied the sister to the hearing. Something is not right with DJ. Now, it has all but ruined the life of her daughter. I just do not see how AR can recover, but I hope that she can.

Does anyone ever recall the case of the Golers in BC? This is what it is almost sounding to me like - generations of incest and abuse.

[MissouriLady]

but i still can't get past AR's mother finding lube, sex toys, & her own husband & AR in towels when the shower is dry:confused::mad:

It also speaks volumes that she noticed the shower being dry, imo. She may have gone directly to take a shower herself and noticed, but the way that it was worded in the affidavit it sounded like she had checked. If that's the case, then there was obviously some suspicion of what was going on in that house coming from Denise.

[Medea]

I can't imagine marrying a man who was once accused of sexually assaulting a relative and then pled guilty to aggravated rape and kidnapping. WTF? Was he falsely accused and railroaded two times? There is no excuse in my book for Denise.

[Jaded]

I can't imagine marrying a man who was once accused of sexually assaulting a relative and then pled guilty to aggravated rape and kidnapping. WTF? Was he falsely accused and railroaded two times? There is no excuse in my book for Denise.

I agree - there is NO WAY IN HELL I would marry, let alone knowingly have an RSO around my children. Something's just not right in her head, imo.

[nanandjim]

Does anyone ever recall the case of the Golers in BC? This is what it is almost sounding to me like - generations of incest and abuse.
I am not familiar with this family; however, it sounds like this family on both sides are very, very dysfunctional. I know that everyone has basically excused the bio father of Brooke; however, I think that he also knew that MJ was a RSO. So, I can't give him a complete pass. I just think that he should never have let his daughter be exposed to that guy, even if it meant calling CPS and getting custody of her.

Maybe, I just don't understand the system. Are these guys allowed to be around children? I don't care if he graduated from some program with flying colors.

[evelyn24]

I was almost willing to give her a little bit of a pass until I discovered that she worked with her husband's sister, the one that was repeatedly molested by his father and by him. I strongly suspect that she accompanied the sister to the hearing. Something is not right with DJ. Now, it has all but ruined the life of her daughter. I just do not see how AR can recover, but I hope that she can.

Whew, you're not kidding.
I'm shocked Denise allowed AR to be questioned by LE without an attorney present!
DJ seems like she'd go the extra mile to protect MJ.

[SuziQ]

Does anyone ever recall the case of the Golers in BC? This is what it is almost sounding to me like - generations of incest and abuse.

Interesting case. The daughter makes a good point about allowing SO's around children at all. MJ is a good example. All they'll do is find women with children to marry. And even have their own children to abuse.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/1998/08/11/goler980811a.html

(snip)
"They can't babysit their niece, they can't babysit their cousin or their own child," Goler says. "They cannot be alone whatsoever with a child under the age of 14, unsupervised."
Goler was removed from the squalor of her family home when she was just 11. Her testimony helped convict her own father, among other family members. Today, her father is back before the courts once again, charged with the sexual assault of a child.

[Floh]

I am not familiar with this family; however, it sounds like this family on both sides are very, very dysfunctional. I know that everyone has basically excused the bio father of Brooke; however, I think that he also knew that MJ was a RSO. So, I can't give him a complete pass. I just think that he should never have let his daughter be exposed to that guy, even if it meant calling CPS and getting custody of her.

Maybe, I just don't understand the system. Are these guys allowed to be around children? I don't care if he graduated from some program with flying colors.

Brooke's mother and father weren't married. i think trying to get custody of a child by a father is hard, but even harder for an unmarried father. but i have been known to be wrong.

there was discussion on another thread quite some time ago the mother could have decamped to Alabama and therefore the father would have lost his chance to see Brooke at all should he have tried to gain custody of Brooke.

[Adalena935]

I am not familiar with this family; however, it sounds like this family on both sides are very, very dysfunctional. I know that everyone has basically excused the bio father of Brooke; however, I think that he also knew that MJ was a RSO. So, I can't give him a complete pass. I just think that he should never have let his daughter be exposed to that guy, even if it meant calling CPS and getting custody of her.

Maybe, I just don't understand the system. Are these guys allowed to be around children? I don't care if he graduated from some program with flying colors.

It so seems that given Jacques criminal past the courts would have automatically given custody to the Father and put her in he & the step-Mother's home even while the Father was in Iraq. Admittedly I don't know the system either. Jacques should have never been taken off probation. This is such a tragic case.

[Adalena935]

I agree - there is NO WAY IN HELL I would marry, let alone knowingly have an RSO around my children. Something's just not right in her head, imo.

Yes and there seems to be an alarming number of adults in our society similar. The people who might benefit from some sort of coulseling the most often times avoid it.

[Medea]

It so seems that given Jacques criminal past the courts would have automatically given custody to the Father and put her in he & the step-Mother's home even while the Father was in Iraq. Admittedly I don't know the system either. Jacques should have never been taken off probation. This is such a tragic case.

Forget probation he should never have done just FOUR YEARS for aggravated rape and kidnapping, especially when there was a prior allegation of a sex crime which can be considered for sentencing, at least most places. This boggles my mind, people go to jail for longer on drug charges.

[DeltaDawn]

Brooke's mother and father weren't married. i think trying to get custody of a child by a father is hard, but even harder for an unmarried father. but i have been known to be wrong.

there was discussion on another thread quite some time ago the mother could have decamped to Alabama and therefore the father would have lost his chance to see Brooke at all should he have tried to gain custody of Brooke.


Floh..I totally agree with what you are saying. Her Dad and his wife even sold their house to move to Alabama to be close to Brooke. Then Brooke's Mom moved back to Vermont.

You would not believe how courts in my state here are so pro the mother no matter the circumstance. Within my family their is a child living with her mother in section 8..government assisted housing..where all drug addicts and pervs live...while her father who has a good paying job, lives with his wife and son in a small but clean and pretty house in the country..and the courts will not give him custody. Instead this family member has to pay her child support, all medical bills for her and the child, as well as alimony, while she has custody and lives in filth. The money for the child is never used for the child.

[becca]

I still have to chuckle at the fact that Ray was dumb enough to go to the public library, sign a sheet authorizing his use, then log on and think the Feds wouldn't know.

stupid flocks with stupid...
but trying to understand stupid is even harder...

[Medea]

Floh..I totally agree with what you are saying. Her Dad and his wife even sold their house to move to Alabama to be close to Brooke. Then Brooke's Mom moved back to Vermont.

You would not believe how courts in my state here are so pro the mother no matter the circumstance. Within my family their is a child living with her mother in section 8..government assisted housing..where all drug addicts and pervs live...while her father who has a good paying job, lives with his wife and son..and the courts will not give him custody. Instead this family member has to pay her child support, all medical bills for her and the child, as well as alimony...while she has custody and lives in filth.


I agree, which ever parent can give the child the best life and is psychologically better equiped to be the custodial parent should get custody.

[philamena]

bringing this slideshow over, thanks to Liz & Phil:)

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BT&Date=20080702&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=807020801&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=1


You are welcome close_enough. :smileyhyper (1):

[nanandjim]

...DJ seems like she'd go the extra mile to protect MJ.
Someone mentioned that maybe MJ pitted DJ against AR. Maybe, that is what happened; and DJ felt like she was in competition with AR with AR being the aggressor. I know that it sounds sick, but this entire family dynamic is sick. AR probably feels special from the attention and feels that she is providing something to MJ that DJ isn't. DJ is jealous. The entire thing is warped, warped, warped. Maybe, that's why AR didn't like Brooke. Maybe, AR was very jealous and didn't want to be displaced.

[Jaded]

Someone mentioned that maybe MJ pitted DJ against AR. Maybe, that is what happened; and DJ felt like she was in competition with AR with AR being the aggressor. I know that it sounds sick, but this entire family dynamic is sick. AR probably feels special from the attention and feels that she is providing something to MJ that DJ isn't. DJ is jealous. The entire thing is warped, warped, warped. Maybe, that's why AR didn't like Brooke. Maybe, AR was very jealous and didn't want to be displaced.

AR IMO was wise beyond her years (at no fault of her own), because she was used by MJ for his sexual depravity, but here's what gets me. Mom was allowing AR to go out on car dates with boys who were old enough to drive? Did she think they were going out to talk about Barbie's or Hannah Montana? What does a 14 YO have in common with what - 16, 17 YO boys? *nothing* Maybe AR had a reputation and was known to "put out". Sorry to sound so crass. There has been mention in the past of SB having issue with AR. Maybe that's why the cousins didn't like AR or there was issue - they didn't want to be associated with her because of her rep? JMO and a theory - don't be hatin' on me. She definitely could have been vying for MJ's attention, as well.

There is just something so dreadfully wrong with the entire family dynamics.

[MCDRAW]

Whew, you're not kidding.
I'm shocked Denise allowed AR to be questioned by LE without an attorney present!
DJ seems like she'd go the extra mile to protect MJ.


The police can question a minor child as long as they are trying to get evidence on someone else other than said minor. The police questioned my son at school about an incident without our knowledge and this is what we were told.

[MCDRAW]

Brooke's mother and father weren't married. i think trying to get custody of a child by a father is hard, but even harder for an unmarried father. but i have been known to be wrong.

there was discussion on another thread quite some time ago the mother could have decamped to Alabama and therefore the father would have lost his chance to see Brooke at all should he have tried to gain custody of Brooke.


It's easier for men than it used to be. I know several men that have custody. The laws in Alabama are that you can't move to another state without the other parents permission. It may be the same in other states, not sure. But I know that's the law in Alabama.

[becca]

The police can question a minor child as long as they are trying to get evidence on someone else other than said minor. The police questioned my son at school about an incident without our knowledge and this is what we were told.

doesn't that depend on the state?

[nanandjim]

AR IMO was wise beyond her years (at no fault of her own), because she was used by MJ for his sexual depravity, but here's what gets me. Mom was allowing AR to go out on car dates with boys who were old enough to drive? Did she think they were going out to talk about Barbie's or Hannah Montana? What does a 14 YO have in common with what - 16, 17 YO boys? *nothing* Maybe AR had a reputation and was known to "put out". Sorry to sound so crass. There has been mention in the past of SB having issue with AR. Maybe that's why the cousins didn't like AR or there was issue - they didn't want to be associated with her because of her rep? JMO and a theory - don't be hatin' on me. She definitely could have been vying for MJ's attention, as well.

There is just something so dreadfully wrong with the entire family dynamics.
SB? She doesn't have the same last name as BB, does she? Anyway, I know who you mean. I think "something sexual" happened that was disturbing; and that is why SB stopped talking to AR. Maybe, AR hit on or slept with SB's boyfriend. In any case, I think that AR was really playing the sweet manipulation card to the young, naive Brooke. That's why she posted what she did on SB's myspace. So, so sad. I wonder if AR is feeling any remorse. I ask this because she only told the truth (don't know if she has told the entire truth) when she was confronted with evidence where she had no other choice.

[gigi2009]

I think Denise was just bent on keeping up appearances. She knew exactly what was going on but just didn't want to stir up trouble. Plus it seems like AR was so aligned with MJ that the 2 of them could run all over Denise.

[RR0004]

The police can question a minor child as long as they are trying to get evidence on someone else other than said minor. The police questioned my son at school about an incident without our knowledge and this is what we were told.
Yes...it's a fine line...especially if something the child says may incriminate him/herself. If the child is the one that's in trouble, they are NOT allowed to question the child without a parent being there...not to say it isn't done...but a lawyer would have a field day with that.

[MCDRAW]

Forget probation he should never have done just FOUR YEARS for aggravated rape and kidnapping, especially when there was a prior allegation of a sex crime which can be considered for sentencing, at least most places. This boggles my mind, people go to jail for longer on drug charges.


It always amazes me that someone can commit such a violent crime and serve so little time. My brother got caught with some pills...his sentence is 15 years.

[Medea]

It always amazes me that someone can commit such a violent crime and serve so little time. My brother got caught with some pills...his sentence is 15 years.

Are you kidding me? Did he have priors? He needs a better lawyer that is ridiculous.

[RR0004]

It's easier for men than it used to be. I know several men that have custody. The laws in Alabama are that you can't move to another state without the other parents permission. It may be the same in other states, not sure. But I know that's the law in Alabama.
In most states, it would only take the other parent a trip to court to prevent it from happening. In married cases, the spouse that wants to leave the state must have good reason (job, marriage, etc.). But, then arrangements can be made for the parent to receive visitation back in his/her home state...and the parent that moves may be asked to cover those expenses. I've even heard of parents sharing custody at opposite ends of the country. If CG wanted to leave...and BB's dad didn't want her to, he could have gone to court.

[Adalena935]

Forget probation he should never have done just FOUR YEARS for aggravated rape and kidnapping, especially when there was a prior allegation of a sex crime which can be considered for sentencing, at least most places. This boggles my mind, people go to jail for longer on drug charges.

You're so right about all that. It would've been a parole board who granted him early release from prison wouldn't it? I don't buy into giving prisoners accolades for completing programs while in prison because anybody can be good in prison. What else do they have to occupy their time? Leslie Van Houten comes to mind. She's always patting herself on the back for all her mail-order degrees. Anybody can act nice locked in a cage & told how to hold their mouths every waking moment. What they did with their liberty when they were able to exercise it is what's telling.

For them to let Jacques out so early they had to have found some bogus reason to reward him. Doing 3 or 4 years on a 20 year sentence is an outrage. An insult to society with him given free reign to gloat.

[MCDRAW]

AR IMO was wise beyond her years (at no fault of her own), because she was used by MJ for his sexual depravity, but here's what gets me. Mom was allowing AR to go out on car dates with boys who were old enough to drive? Did she think they were going out to talk about Barbie's or Hannah Montana? What does a 14 YO have in common with what - 16, 17 YO boys? *nothing* Maybe AR had a reputation and was known to "put out". Sorry to sound so crass. There has been mention in the past of SB having issue with AR. Maybe that's why the cousins didn't like AR or there was issue - they didn't want to be associated with her because of her rep? JMO and a theory - don't be hatin' on me. She definitely could have been vying for MJ's attention, as well.

There is just something so dreadfully wrong with the entire family dynamics.



The sad thing is I know lots of 14 year olds that are allowed to car date. When my son was 16 he dated a girl,16 that didn't even have a curfew. I made him stop dating her because he would never make curfew. (He was embarassed he had one and she didn't). His curfew was 10:30.

[RR0004]

Are you kidding me? Did he have priors? He needs a better lawyer that is ridiculous.
OT- first time offense?

[MCDRAW]

doesn't that depend on the state?


It may very well.

[Adalena935]

It always amazes me that someone can commit such a violent crime and serve so little time. My brother got caught with some pills...his sentence is 15 years.

They play society like a bunch of fools. They do not take these crimes against children nearly serious enough.

[MCDRAW]

Are you kidding me? Did he have priors? He needs a better lawyer that is ridiculous.


yes, he did have priors. He stole my other two brothers credit cards. He served a year for that. He's a drug addict.

[DeltaDawn]

AR IMO was wise beyond her years (at no fault of her own), because she was used by MJ for his sexual depravity, but here's what gets me. Mom was allowing AR to go out on car dates with boys who were old enough to drive? Did she think they were going out to talk about Barbie's or Hannah Montana? What does a 14 YO have in common with what - 16, 17 YO boys? *nothing* Maybe AR had a reputation and was known to "put out". Sorry to sound so crass. There has been mention in the past of SB having issue with AR. Maybe that's why the cousins didn't like AR or there was issue - they didn't want to be associated with her because of her rep? JMO and a theory - don't be hatin' on me. She definitely could have been vying for MJ's attention, as well.

There is just something so dreadfully wrong with the entire family dynamics.


Thank you..this is what I have been trying to say..this whole scene is so convoluted..can you even imagine how convoluted AR feels. She hasn't been a "normal" little girl for at least 6 maybe more years. Just because the note under the pillow came at 9 yrs old..makes me believe that she was already being sexually used well before that..a 9 year old would not have understood that note if they hadn't already had some very bad things happen to them. I think the whole idea of Breckenridge was a way to keep her quiet and subdued..feeling special, "the President picked you for this program". I think it also was the age old ploy if you don't perform well..you will be killed..referenced in the affidavits about the second one gets their throat cut. Otherwise they wouldn't have needed that ruse if she was so compliant to begin with.

I feel very sorry for AR..she was a child from the beginning to the end. She wasn't world savy..she lived in a small town. She had no choice but to do what she was told..her mother, no egg donor/ incubator, was a piece of work.

[MCDRAW]

OT- first time offense?


They think the pills are diet pills. Tox hasn't come back yet.

[gigi2009]

It looks like Burlington Free Press pulled those comments people were leaving. It was there before but now it's gone. Hmmmm....

Also, I saw somewhere that Kevin Grosenheider lived in Anniston, Alabama which is a couple of hours away from Cullman. Does anyone know exactly when RG moved?

[Jaded]

You're so right about all that. It would've been a parole board who granted him early release from prison wouldn't it? I don't buy into giving prisoners accolades for completing programs while in prison because anybody can be good in prison. What else do they have to occupy their time? Leslie Van Houten comes to mind. She's always patting herself on the back for all her mail-order degrees. Anybody can act nice locked in a cage & told how to hold their mouths every waking moment. What they did with their liberty when they were able to exercise it is what's telling.

For them to let Jacques out so early they had to have found some bogus reason to reward him. Doing 3 or 4 years on a 20 year sentence is an outrage. An insult to society with him given free reign to gloat.

BINGO! I am going through this right now with a cousin that is incarcerated for passing bad checks - second offense and he got 3 years. He suddenly loves Jesus and wants his freedom so badly, but these are things that he should have thought about when he had his freedom. He's going to say and do whatever is necessary for him to maintain a sense of self-preservation. As for MJ and doing his pittance of a sentence - it chaps my bum! When will the system learn - pedos cannot be cured. EVER.

[Adalena935]

The police can question a minor child as long as they are trying to get evidence on someone else other than said minor. The police questioned my son at school about an incident without our knowledge and this is what we were told.

That's an interesting tidbit. I didn't know that. I wouldn't be at all comfortable with that or happy about it. If it's the law though I don't guess there's a lot a parent could do about it after the fact. Seems as if law enforcement questions children at all a parent/guardian should be present.

[RR0004]

That's an interesting tidbit. I didn't know that. I wouldn't be at all comfortable with that or happy about it. If it's the law though I don't guess there's a lot a parent could do about it after the fact. Seems as if law enforcement questions children at all a parent/guardian should be present.
Do we know for a fact that Denise was NOT there?

[gigi2009]

Evry state is different. It also matters whether they question a minor on school grounds. Denise c was probably at the police station when they questioned AR but she didn't have to be in the room.

[Adalena935]

BINGO! I am going through this right now with a cousin that is incarcerated for passing bad checks - second offense and he got 3 years. He suddenly loves Jesus and wants his freedom so badly, but these are things that he should have thought about when he had his freedom. He's going to say and do whatever is necessary for him to maintain a sense of self-preservation. As for MJ and doing his pittance of a sentence - it chaps my bum! When will the system learn - pedos cannot be cured. EVER.

Yes I agree. A judge once told me they often will give even weekend sentences or a few days for the purpose of making an impression included with whatever fine. A sentence is for a purpose of forcing them to ponder their mistake in hopes it'll stick in their noodle so they won't be tempted to do it again or forget. I even know of a retarded citizen who was remanded by a court to serve some time in some sort of monitored program away from where he lived.

For your cousin hopefully time with God will benefit him. Letting someone like Jacques out so early only encourages them to do more of the same in my opinion. That's a disgustingly short sentence for that horrible crime he did. It's lucky that poor young woman lived thru his torture.

[bdmama]

I did not attend but close friends did and said they had an open casket at the calling hours. :( Denise, A.R. & the daughter of MJ were nowhere to be seen and there were MANY police officers there.

[RR0004]

I think Denise was just bent on keeping up appearances. She knew exactly what was going on but just didn't want to stir up trouble. Plus it seems like AR was so aligned with MJ that the 2 of them could run all over Denise.
And she still must be...showing up at MJs hearing!? And, if "they" have money to buy sex contraptions, why does he have a court appointed attorney?! Sorry if this has been discussed earlier in the day...but seeing her pic at the courthouse just made my blood boil!!

[Adalena935]

Evry state is different. It also matters whether they question a minor on school grounds. Denise c was probably at the police station when they questioned AR but she didn't have to be in the room.

Thanks for that. I have no idea. Maybe they did get her permission too. Sounds like that's what you're saying in essence.

[RR0004]

I did not attend but close friends did and said they had an open casket at the calling hours. :( Denise, A.R. & the daughter of MJ were nowhere to be seen and there were MANY police officers there.
I read that it was going to be an open casket...how heartwrenching. It also gets me thinking.

[philamena]

I did not attend but close friends did and said they had an open casket at the calling hours. :( Denise, A.R. & the daughter of MJ were nowhere to be seen and there were MANY police officers there.


Brooke's casket was open? :confused:
If so, that means there was little decomposition when the body was found.

[becca]

I read that it was going to be an open casket...how heartwrenching. It also gets me thinking.
I don't think I could have gone myself. But open casket is very telling.

[gigi2009]

I did not attend but close friends did and said they had an open casket at the calling hours. :( Denise, A.R. & the daughter of MJ were nowhere to be seen and there were MANY police officers there.

Really? I wonder if they just didn't come or if they were specifically told not to come. But Denise managed to show up for MJ huh? I can understand AR not being there though. I can't imagine what the kids must be saying since I'm sure they know who everyone is. From what I saw on myspace, they are all in a very tight group.

[Tom'sGirl]

I did not attend but close friends did and said they had an open casket at the calling hours. :( Denise, A.R. & the daughter of MJ were nowhere to be seen and there were MANY police officers there.
Thank you for the info. bdmama! I wonder if they'll be at the Funeral tomorrow?

[Adalena935]

I did not attend but close friends did and said they had an open casket at the calling hours. :( Denise, A.R. & the daughter of MJ were nowhere to be seen and there were MANY police officers there.

My heart goes out to those law enforcement officers. It seems like they would need counseling with what they have to endure. I don't know what society would do without them. In our free society they end up picking up the pieces after crummy and dangerous choices made by careless people.

[philamena]

... :( Denise, A.R. & the daughter of MJ were nowhere to be seen and there were MANY police officers there.


IMO, they shouldn't have been there.

[MCDRAW]

That's an interesting tidbit. I didn't know that. I wouldn't be at all comfortable with that or happy about it. If it's the law though I don't guess there's a lot a parent could do about it after the fact. Seems as if law enforcement questions children at all a parent/guardian should be present.


We were furious. We told them we didn't appreciate them harassing our son. He has never even been sent to the office...then they want to embarass him over something he had nothing to do with.

[bdmama]

From what she said it should NOT have been open.

[gigi2009]

It look like the official date of her death is listed as the 25th of June.

[MCDRAW]

BINGO! I am going through this right now with a cousin that is incarcerated for passing bad checks - second offense and he got 3 years. He suddenly loves Jesus and wants his freedom so badly, but these are things that he should have thought about when he had his freedom. He's going to say and do whatever is necessary for him to maintain a sense of self-preservation. As for MJ and doing his pittance of a sentence - it chaps my bum! When will the system learn - pedos cannot be cured. EVER.


The trouble is your cousin got almost the same time Jacques served for a violent crime. IMO, the system needs to be changed.

[Adalena935]

I read that it was going to be an open casket...how heartwrenching. It also gets me thinking.

It makes you think of the life that was stolen from her illicitly. How dare anyone.

[RR0004]

I don't think I could have gone myself. But open casket is very telling.
Yes, isn't it? I've been having terrible thoughts.

[dark_shadows]

Brooke's casket was open? :confused:
My very dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
Just my opinion that Brooke was held captive and not murdered on the day that she went missing.


So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Medea]

I'm sort of surprised it was an open casket based on the way police first talked about finding her body...so much for the idea she was too decomposed for identification...

[MCDRAW]

I don't think I could have gone myself. But open casket is very telling.


I really thought that if they had been dead a certain amount of time they couldn't have an open casket due to health concerns. This is what a friend of mine was told when he found his Dad dead after so many days.

[Adalena935]

We were furious. We told them we didn't appreciate them harassing our son. He has never even been sent to the office...then they want to embarass him over something he had nothing to do with.

Oh exactly. I don't blame you one bit. Heck they parents to the school if the child loses a page of homework and then don't bother picking up the phone with something important with police questioning.

Are you going to go before the school board and talk to them about it? Sometimes for the sake of your child it's best to not do more though. I feel for you and your son. Kids are so vulnerable. They don't know what to say in a situation like that and why would they? That's so sad. I'm sorry.

ETA: Tell the school officials to dress nice Monday morning because the local news media will be there to talk to them.

[RR0004]

We were furious. We told them we didn't appreciate them harassing our son. He has never even been sent to the office...then they want to embarass him over something he had nothing to do with.
I was in a similar situation years ago..no police were involved, but I went nuts when the principal questioned my son about something that took place off campus and not on school time... it didn't even involve my son. In so many words, I said..."If you ever question my son again without a parent present, I'll sue your pants off!"

[RR0004]

It look like the official date of her death is listed as the 25th of June.
Official...how so?

[Adalena935]

I really thought that if they had been dead a certain amount of time they couldn't have an open casket due to health concerns. This is what a friend of mine was told when he found his Dad dead after so many days.

Oh how sad. Maybe those laws too varry according to state.

[gigi2009]

Here is a link that describes a little about the wake tonight http://http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2008/07/08/wake_set_for_brooke_bennett/

Also, the date of the death was June 25th.

[Tom'sGirl]

Slain girl mourned amid flowers, snapshot collages and tears


Associated Press - July 8, 2008 6:15 PM ET
RANDOLPH, Vt. (AP) - Today mourners remembered 12-year-old Brooke Bennett at a wake in the building where she just graduated from seventh grade.

Filing past a series of photo collages and the girl's open casket, friends and acquaintances shared condolences with her mother and other family members in an auditorium at Randolph Union High School.

Hundreds were expected to pay their respects tonight and at a funeral scheduled for tomorrow.
http://www.fox44.net/Global/story.asp?S=8643339

[MCDRAW]

Oh exactly. I don't blame you one bit. Heck they parents to the school if the child loses a page of homework and then don't bother picking up the phone with something important with police questioning.

Are you going to go before the school board and talk to them about it? Sometimes for the sake of your child it's best to not do more though. I feel for you and your son. Kids are so vulnerable. They don't know what to say in a situation like that and why would they? That's so sad. I'm sorry.

ETA: Tell the school officials to dress nice Monday morning because the local news media will be there to talk to them.


They felt like it was ok because the resource officer was present. We let it go because our board probably wouldn't have done anything and we didn't want to embarass my son any more than he was.

[gigi2009]

Because that's what's listed for the wake and funeral.

[twinkiesmom]

From what she said it should NOT have been open.

:eek: I'm sorry but I have to ask...shouldn't have been because of visible trauma or visible decomposition?

[calidreamin]

My very dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
Just my opinion that Brooke was held captive and not murdered on the day that she went missing.


So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Hi DS:blowkiss:. I am wondering about that myself. I am wondering how they could have an open casket after almost 2 weeks?

[RR0004]

Here is a link that describes a little about the wake tonight http://http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2008/07/08/wake_set_for_brooke_bennett/

Also, the date of the death was June 25th.
Yikes...nothing came up. Does it actually say in that article that the date of death was June 25th? Has a death certificate been issued? Which is an area I really am not familiar with....must a death certificate be issued in order to bury someone?

[DianeB]

I saw June 25th listed at the day of death on the condolences page of the funeral home website. In the absence of any confirmed information about when she died, I'm not sure what other date they would have used.

I'm sorry, but I can’t help but to keep circling back to the why of all this.

Why would MJ feel the need to risk his cozy little setup by murdering his niece? I do think making Brooke disappear was his ultimate intention all along.

Unless killing people is something he’d done before - and there’s no evidence he ever crossed that line despite his threat to kill his 1993 victim (although I’d bet money the Feds are looking into that possibility very closely), it’s a big step to go from incest to murder. Especially in a family that seemed to tolerate deviant behavior.

What made Brooke such a big threat to him? Was it as simple as her knowing something he was desperate to keep her from revealing?

[RR0004]

Because that's what's listed for the wake and funeral.
Oh, ok...what other date could they list without the investigation being complete.

[close_enough]

Hi DS:blowkiss:. I am wondering about that myself. I am wondering how they could have an open casket after almost 2 weeks?

hi there cali (waves)....hope you & the babies are doing fine:)

let's see...Brooke's body was found on July 2nd....that would be 7 days...

eta ... not to sound bad, but it's possible Brooke was very very swollen?....but then again, dang!...to be out in the heat in a shallow grave for 7 days, would be pretty damaging, i would think......hmmm

eta again...& thanks for the info bdmama!

[RR0004]

I saw June 25th listed at the day of death on the condolences page of the funeral home website. In the absence of any confirmed information about when she died, I'm not sure what other date they would have used.

I'm sorry, but I can’t help but to keep circling back to the why of all this.

Why would MJ feel the need to risk his cozy little setup by murdering his niece? I do think making Brooke disappear was his ultimate intention all along.

Unless killing people is something he’d done before - and there’s no evidence he ever crossed that line despite his threat to kill his 1993 victim (although I’d bet money the Feds are looking into that possibility very closely), it’s a big step to go from incest to murder. Especially in a family that seemed to tolerate deviant behavior.

What made Brooke such a big threat to him? Was it as simple as her knowing something he was desperate to keep her from revealing?
This is what I have been thinking...and for my brain to rest I sure hope in the end we will know the answer to that.

[Medea]

I saw June 25th listed at the day of death on the condolences page of the funeral home website. In the absence of any confirmed information about when she died, I'm not sure what other date they would have used.

I'm sorry, but I can’t help but to keep circling back to the why of all this.

Why would MJ feel the need to risk his cozy little setup by murdering his niece? I do think making Brooke disappear was his ultimate intention all along.

Unless killing people is something he’d done before - and there’s no evidence he ever crossed that line despite his threat to kill his 1993 victim (although I’d bet money the Feds are looking into that possibility very closely), it’s a big step to go from incest to murder. Especially in a family that seemed to tolerate deviant behavior.

What made Brooke such a big threat to him? Was it as simple as her knowing something he was desperate to keep her from revealing?


ITA. There has to be a reason for why, and why now. If he just wanted to rape her he could have just told her if she told anyone he'd kill her...it has certainly worked millions of times in the past with young children.

[gigi2009]

:eek: I'm sorry but I have to ask...shouldn't have been because of visible trauma or visible decomposition?

Trauma can be "corrected" for an open casket.


Embalming helps preserve the body as does refrigeration. Depending on the position of the body, for instance lying face up, there might be less decomp or mottling.

Also, from what I understand, if they don't have an actual date of death then funeral homes usually put in "taken too soon" or something similiar. But in this case the funeral home has it listed "died June 25th,2008".

[Adalena935]

That poor little girl. I can't even imagine the heartache of her friends and classmates. Those poor little children. To lose friends to old age is excruciating but this I can't imagine.

[gigi2009]

Remember that other woman MJ kidnapped? He handcuffed and stuffed a gag in her mouth is what she said. I'm thinking that's how he could've restrained Brooke as well. Seemed to be his MO.

[dark_shadows]

It look like the official date of her death is listed as the 25th of June.
Dearest Gigi,:blowkiss:
That is the date listed on the obituary from the family.
My friend was listed as missing, he was found murdered. The date the family listed in his obituary was the day that he went missing.


Love and respect,
dark_shadows

[Liz]

I did not attend but close friends did and said they had an open casket at the calling hours. :( Denise, A.R. & the daughter of MJ were nowhere to be seen and there were MANY police officers there.


Thank for posting this, bdmama. I believe Brooke's wake is through 8pm this evening, right?

I pray for comfort for everyone who cares about and loves Brooke (especially the innocent children), and are reeling from the pain and confusion of her death. Also, prayers for healing for the community. And, stricter enforcement of child sex offender laws and passage of new laws as necessary. A wake-up call to all parents to love your children and "Be a parent" to them!

RIP, dear Brooke. May your death not be in vain.

[bdmama]

She said she was very swollen and just looked nothing like Brooke, it was very obvious alot had to be done to her to make her "presentable".

[close_enough]

Remember that other woman MJ kidnapped? He handcuffed and stuffed a gag in her mouth is what she said. I'm thinking that's how he could've restrained Brooke as well. Seemed to be his MO.

yeah, & maybe holding her head up with a rope of some type...(which was mentioned by another poster, as far as the past behavior with MJ) ...she was probably suffocated/was strangled:(

[calidreamin]

hi there cali (waves)....hope you & the babies are doing fine:)

let's see...Brooke's body was found on July 2nd....that would be 7 days...

eta ... not to sound bad, but it's possible Brooke was very very swollen?....but then again, dang!...to be out in the heat in a shallow grave for 7 days, would be pretty damaging, i would think......hmmm

Hi close:blowkiss:! The babies and I are doing great. I am stumped over the fact that they were able to have an open casket, you would think that after she had been buried it wouldn't have been possible.:(

[MCDRAW]

I have to say that has bothered me too. By his actions, he never intended Brooke to reappear. But why kill her. If he was going to go that far...wouldn't he have killed a stranger? Someone that didn't lead right back to him.

[twinkiesmom]

Trauma can be "corrected" for an open casket.

I know, but sometimes the way the body is positioned, you can tell where the trauma is...I was at an open-casket wake for a young car accident victim, and he was placed on his side to conceal the point of impact. Despite the fact that the side facing me was untouched by the accident, I found the hidden side disturbing and wished they had had a closed casket.

[Adalena935]

Trauma can be "corrected" for an open casket.


Embalming helps preserve the body as does refrigeration. Depending on the position of the body, for instance lying face up, there might be less decomp or mottling.

Also, from what I understand, if they don't have an actual date of death then funeral homes usually put in "taken too soon" or something similiar. But in this case the funeral home has it listed "died June 25th,2008".

From reading the affidavits I surely think that's when law enforcement believed she was killed. Plus wouldn't the medical examiner have something to say about that date along with evidence of phone records and logging onto the Internet LE compiled.

[calidreamin]

Thank for posting this, bdmama. I believe Brooke's wake is through 8pm this evening, right?

I pray for comfort for everyone who cares about and loves Brooke (especially the innocent children), and are reeling from the pain and confusion of her death. Also, prayers for healing for the community. And, stricter enforcement of child sex offender laws and passage of new laws as necessary. A wake-up call to all parents to love your children and "Be a parent" to them!

RIP, dear Brooke. May your death not be in vain.

Thought was perfectly put Liz, thank you so much for that.:)

RIP Dear Brooke!

[Busylady]

In my opinion even though the obit and funeral home used June 25 as time of death it is not the official date of death.

[close_enough]

She said she was very swollen and just looked nothing like Brooke, it was very obvious alot had to be done to her to make her "presentable".

yep, i kind of figured that could be it....a very dear friend of mine died from cancer on June 12th...she was taken imediately to the morgue, & i swear she was sooooo swollen, in the casket...her body even looked like it had been "packed", if you know what i mean....just really huge looking, face & all......

[RR0004]

Dearest Gigi,:blowkiss:
That is the date listed on the obituary from the family.
My friend was listed as missing, he was found murdered. The date the family listed in his obituary was the day that he went missing.


Love and respect,
dark_shadows
That's true...the family generally supplies the information. Gosh knows the press didn't do a real swell job with the obit in the paper.

[DeltaDawn]

Slain girl mourned amid flowers, snapshot collages and tears


Associated Press - July 8, 2008 6:15 PM ET
RANDOLPH, Vt. (AP) - Today mourners remembered 12-year-old Brooke Bennett at a wake in the building where she just graduated from seventh grade.

Filing past a series of photo collages and the girl's open casket, friends and acquaintances shared condolences with her mother and other family members in an auditorium at Randolph Union High School.

Hundreds were expected to pay their respects tonight and at a funeral scheduled for tomorrow.
http://www.fox44.net/Global/story.asp?S=8643339




Thank you TG.. I appreciate the update !

DD

[Starr58]

RANDOLPH, Vt. -- Amid sprays of flowers, snapshots from her short life and somber greetings, mourners Tuesday remembered 12-year-old Brooke Bennett at a wake in the building where she just graduated from seventh grade.


Filing past a series of photo collages and the girl's open casket, friends and acquaintances _ some wearing lapel buttons with her smiling face, a "Brooke" ribbon extending from the bottom _ shared condolences and tearful embraces with her mother and other family members in an auditorium at Randolph Union High School.

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8643305

[Adalena935]

I have to say that has bothered me too. By his actions, he never intended Brooke to reappear. But why kill her. If he was going to go that far...wouldn't he have killed a stranger? Someone that didn't lead right back to him.

I thought the same thing. She was a readily available target. Plus like someone else said they just get so caught up in their sickness it escalates and they lose sight of reason and become reckless.

[ShinaLite]

I have to say that has bothered me too. By his actions, he never intended Brooke to reappear. But why kill her. If he was going to go that far...wouldn't he have killed a stranger? Someone that didn't lead right back to him.

I think in his stupid mind it was not going to lead back to him at all..By choosing her, say instead of a stranger, maybe he felt some control in setting up things in a way he felt he would never be suspected ( the myspace post, being seen leaving in seperate directions, the dna of Juvenile 2 ect..)

[close_enough]

Hi close:blowkiss:! The babies and I are doing great. I am stumped over the fact that they were able to have an open casket, you would think that after she had been buried it wouldn't have been possible.:(

like bdmama posted, i guess they just did a lot to make her "presentable":(

[SuziQ]

Star, because of copyright laws we can only post a very small portion (10% or a paragraph) of an entire article and provide a link to the rest of it. Thanks!

[RR0004]

She said she was very swollen and just looked nothing like Brooke, it was very obvious alot had to be done to her to make her "presentable".
Ok...I know this is a really terrible time for the family, but what were they thinking by having an open casket? For that to be the image for her friends to remember...along with how she died...oh, my...I'm seriously concerned for these kids. I do hope the parents take advantage of the services that are being offered.

[gigi2009]

Thankyou DS. From previous experience in my home state, funeral homes usually can only put the actual date of death. Due to regulations and filings of death certificates. In traumatic cases, where TOD is unknown, the funeral homes will usually subsitute a phrase to be sympathetic to the mourners. On their paperwork they put unknown for the date and just the year.

[DianeB]

U.S. Attorney Thomas Anderson declined comment Tuesday on whether Gagnon had images of Vermont children in what an affidavit said were child pornography images found on his computer.
Interesting. He could have said "We don't know yet", if indeed they didn't know one way or the other.

[dark_shadows]

In my opinion even though the obit and funeral home used June 25 as time of death it is not the official date of death.
My dearest Busylady,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for your post.
As I stated earlier, my friend's family used the date that he went missing as a date. His case is still open and the date of his death has not been released to the public because it is an ongoing investigation.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[DeltaDawn]

I did not attend but close friends did and said they had an open casket at the calling hours. :( Denise, A.R. & the daughter of MJ were nowhere to be seen and there were MANY police officers there.


I wouldn't think they would be ..geiven the family dynamics. And I am hoping both AR and her younger sister are in protective custody and care right now. They both will need a huge amount of therapy to get through this. Her younger sister will be tainted, but imagine after therapy, she may do well for herself..and hopefully taken from the family. AR..well..she will never be the same again, therefore for many, many years will need therapy away from these ridiculous people that were supposed to be her family.

[dark_shadows]

Thankyou DS. From previous experience in my home state, funeral homes usually can only put the actual date of death. Due to regulations and filings of death certificates. In traumatic cases, where TOD is unknown, the funeral homes will usually subsitute a phrase to be sympathetic to the mourners. On their paperwork they put unknown for the date and just the year.
Dearest Gigi,:blowkiss:
You are very welcome.
Thank-you for the info you provided.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[gigi2009]

I think in his stupid mind it was not going to lead back to him at all..By choosing her, say instead of a stranger, maybe he felt some control in setting up things in a way he felt he would never be suspected ( the myspace post, being seen leaving in seperate directions, the dna of Juvenile 2 ect..)

I also think he'd been obsessing about her a long time. Sexual offenders and predators think they are "in love" with their victims. I bet he was trying to "seduce" her for years. Gifts, money, rides etc... And I bet she didn't respond the way he wanted. She probably didn't really go over there very much. So it just kept building and building for MJ until he decided he was going to have her no matter what and by then he was so angry cause nothing was working that he came up with a plan. And he was going to make sure that she would be completely his forever. He's arrogant enough to think that he got out of jail pretty darn fast last time,, if he goes to jail this time, it won't be for long and he thinks it's worth it.

[Carrington]

I think Denise was just bent on keeping up appearances. She knew exactly what was going on but just didn't want to stir up trouble. Plus it seems like AR was so aligned with MJ that the 2 of them could run all over Denise.

Among the items mentioned in the affidavit from Denise (My take is it was from Denise, the heading was blacked out) she also found a DVD showing male and female kiddie porn.
She had to play the DVD to know this, and did nothing :confused::confused::confused:
The incidents mentioned didn't give a time frame. But, it doesn't read like it was all at the same time.

I really hope something is done about this woman.

[dark_shadows]

Star, because of copyright laws we can only post a very small portion (10% or a paragraph) of an entire article and provide a link to the rest of it. Thanks!
Dearest SuziQ,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for that post.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[cheko1]

I still think that Denise should be held somewhat responsible for what happened to Brooke and to her own daughter AR. I don't think that allowing AR to go on car dates when she was only 14 with boys old enough to drive was responsible at all. But , I don't think it was responsible of her as a mother to marry a RSO when she had a young daughter in the home. I feel the same way about Brooke's mom.

And what did these 2 adult women see in these men that are so obviously attracted to young girls? And they are from the same family? Something very disturbing to me is are their other vics and if so are they too ashamed or hurt to come forward now?

DeltaDawn,

I will never understand WTH these women were thinking.... I wonder if they were that hard up to find a man that anything in pants would work?

I just want to beech slap them both for being so damn ignorant!!!! I also wonder why today they're so worried about the family dynamics???? They helped create these monsters in my book.

[close_enough]

DeltaDawn,

I will never understand WTH these women were thinking.... I wonder if they were that hard up to find a man that anything in pants would work?

I just want to beech slap them both for being so damn ignorant!!!! I also wonder why today they're so worried about the family dynamics???? They helped create these monsters in my book.

i'm with you on this, cheko!:mad:

[RR0004]

I wouldn't think they would be ..geiven the family dynamics. And I am hoping both AR and her younger sister are in protective custody and care right now. They both will need a huge amount of therapy to get through this. Her younger sister will be tainted, but imagine after therapy, she may do well for herself..and hopefully taken from the family. AR..well..she will never be the same again, therefore for many, many years will need therapy away from these ridiculous people that were supposed to be her family.
ITA! I think this child should be in a therapeutic environment away from the prying eyes of the public.

[lonetraveler]

I'm new to this board but I have been following this since Brooke became missing. I believe the question of "why" he killed her can be answered by AR. Remember, on the e-mails, it was stated that AR "knew why this had to happen". I do believe that she holds the key to a lot of our unanswered questions and that if she had indeed talked to LE, they are holding any additional information closely.

[Busylady]

Wonder if one of the hard drives missing from Jacques computer was in one of the computers in Alabama.

[RR0004]

Dearest SuziQ,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for that post.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Yes, Suzi...thank you for making me aware of that.

[gigi2009]

You know years ago when my babies were infants, I belonged to this mom's group. They thought I was insane because I wanted to teach my kids from the get go what was appropriate and what wasn't. I wanted to teach kids how to be proactive in their safety. I got kicked out. LOL--but just try to grab my daughter and she's prepared to defend herself. I bet now years later with the headlines, they're kicking themselves.

[DianeB]

Maybe AR was the one who revealed something to Brooke either inadvertently or because she didn't expect Brooke to react negatively?

And MJ guilt-tripped her into participating in coming up with a solution for "the problem"?

Hmm.

[Starr58]

Star, because of copyright laws we can only post a very small portion (10% or a paragraph) of an entire article and provide a link to the rest of it. Thanks!

Whoops!!! Sorry, I thought I had only a portion of it. How do I remedy that?

[RR0004]

I'm new to this board but I have been following this since Brooke became missing. I believe the question of "why" he killed her can be answered by AR. Remember, on the e-mails, it was stated that AR "knew why this had to happen". I do believe that she holds the key to a lot of our unanswered questions and that if she had indeed talked to LE, they are holding any additional information closely.
Yes, she knows...and LE knows a lot more than they're revealing, obviously...and we can only speculate on the "why"...but will there ever be a reason "good" enough...that will possibly have this "make sense"? Never in a million years, IMO.

[w1df10wr]

The rule of thumb always used in the past was IF a minors name has been revealed in the Media, then it's okay, IF NOT...........don't mention the name.

Savanna is not a minor, and has been on Nat'l TV.

In the case against Chester Stiles, we knew the victims name and her mothers, but it hadn't been published in the media. We also had/have numerious photos from the families involved from their PB account, but could not post them as it involved MINORS.

I found a link where Savanna's age is listed as 17 -

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8609125

Thank you, Tom'sGirl for the other information.

[lonetraveler]

If you accessed the web page where he purchased the sex machine, you will see that the machine itself is a restraint, including arms, legs and head.

[RR0004]

Whoops!!! Sorry, I thought I had only a portion of it. How do I remedy that?
Easily? Provide the link.

[joga]

I also think he'd been obsessing about her a long time. Sexual offenders and predators think they are "in love" with their victims. I bet he was trying to "seduce" her for years. Gifts, money, rides etc... And I bet she didn't respond the way he wanted. She probably didn't really go over there very much. So it just kept building and building for MJ until he decided he was going to have her no matter what and by then he was so angry cause nothing was working that he came up with a plan. And he was going to make sure that she would be completely his forever. He's arrogant enough to think that he got out of jail pretty darn fast last time,, if he goes to jail this time, it won't be for long and he thinks it's worth it.


that is what i think as well. he could not control his urge for her no matter what. uncontrollable urges = why he should have never been out in the first place! :furious:

[SuziQ]

Whoops!!! Sorry, I thought I had only a portion of it. How do I remedy that?

Go back and edit your post, then snip most of it down and add a link.

[calidreamin]

I'm new to this board but I have been following this since Brooke became missing. I believe the question of "why" he killed her can be answered by AR. Remember, on the e-mails, it was stated that AR "knew why this had to happen". I do believe that she holds the key to a lot of our unanswered questions and that if she had indeed talked to LE, they are holding any additional information closely.

Hi lonestar and welcome to WS!!!! You are right on target here! I think AR knows why this "had" to happen and I just hope LE was able to get the reason out of her.

[Starr58]

Easily? Provide the link.

Excuse my lack of clarity in my request. What I meant was how do I remove that post !

[close_enough]

I'm new to this board but I have been following this since Brooke became missing. I believe the question of "why" he killed her can be answered by AR. Remember, on the e-mails, it was stated that AR "knew why this had to happen". I do believe that she holds the key to a lot of our unanswered questions and that if she had indeed talked to LE, they are holding any additional information closely.

you're right, lonetraveler.....MJ made up some reason, IMO, for AR....IMO, it had to be something pretty awful for AR wanting to do what she wanted to do (per her email) to Brooke....something that made her think that Brooke was going to be responsible for something, like the death of her sister/family member....something kooky like that, that AR would believe.......gosh, she could have been told just about anything, as a reason this had to "go down".......

i'm really beginning to think that MJ knew full well he was going to kill Brooke, but i think he really thought he was smart enough to get away with it....i think her murder was probably video taped....or he simply wanted to make her "suffer", & it went too far.....gosh, i just keep going back & forth on the "why"..........

[RR0004]

that is what i think as well. he could not control his urge for her no matter what. uncontrollable urges = why he should have never been out in the first place! :furious:
Supposedly...and IIRC in the beginning...it was stated that Brooke was over there a lot.

[Adalena935]

Wonder if one of the hard drives missing from Jacques computer was in one of the computers in Alabama.

I don't know about that, but I suspect a lot of things Gagnon said he threw out or had his landlord throw out were transported to Alabama.

[close_enough]

Excuse my lack of clarity in my request. What I meant was how do I remove that post !

go to edit....then delete most of the post, not all!...then post the link where you found the article:)
do you need to know how to copy/paste a link?

[petra]

I also think he'd been obsessing about her a long time. Sexual offenders and predators think they are "in love" with their victims. I bet he was trying to "seduce" her for years. Gifts, money, rides etc... And I bet she didn't respond the way he wanted. She probably didn't really go over there very much. So it just kept building and building for MJ until he decided he was going to have her no matter what and by then he was so angry cause nothing was working that he came up with a plan. And he was going to make sure that she would be completely his forever. He's arrogant enough to think that he got out of jail pretty darn fast last time,, if he goes to jail this time, it won't be for long and he thinks it's worth it.

I respectfully disagree with you on this Gigi....especially the statement I highlighted (bolded).

[RR0004]

Excuse my lack of clarity in my request. What I meant was how do I remove that post !
Oh, sorry...go to edit and delete.

[calidreamin]

Maybe AR was the one who revealed something to Brooke either inadvertently or because she didn't expect Brooke to react negatively?

And MJ guilt-tripped her into participating in coming up with a solution for "the problem"?

Hmm.

This could be Diane. Also something bad was already going on between uncle creepy and Brooke when they were in cumberland Farms. You could tell by the video tape Brooke was upset. The way she was walking with her arms wrapped around herself, you could tell by looking at her she was upset.

[close_enough]

If you accessed the web page where he purchased the sex machine, you will see that the machine itself is a restraint, including arms, legs and head.

hmmm, wow!...i never saw the actual "machine":confused:

[gigi2009]

that is what i think as well. he could not control his urge for her no matter what. uncontrollable urges = why he should have never been out in the first place! :furious:


It's a progression with these POS. It doesn't just strike them out of the blue. They cultivate it, they have patience and they will work on a victim to get them to comply. I think he just finally after years of trying, gave completely in to his impulses and snapped. I think we'll hear that she'd been getting little gifts or money or whatever from MJ. Here's a link to an article that is a little graphic, but it doesn't mince words as to what should be done to these POS.


http://http://newsbyus.com/index.php/article/975