Brooke Bennett, 12 years old Randolph VT #17

[christine2448]

Please continue GENERAL discussions here. Look around BROOKE'S FORUM (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=163)there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.

Welcome all newbies!!!!!!!!!!!! :blowkiss: I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

I advise everyone to read the RULES of WS, Long (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66869)and Short Version (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66872)and also to read THIS STICKY (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67094) before participating. TIA.


Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.

[Adalena935]

I was under the impression that the semen was collected the same day that Brooke was abducted.

I just finished reading the affidavit and AR stated that she drove away with Juvenile 2 and collected semen like she was told to do.

ETA: I just went and reread that section again. It does not state WHEN AR collected the semen. This whole case is totally confusing me.

It is confusing because we're left to assume. They used enough information/evidence/whatever for the affidavits and said at their press conferences they weren't going to devulge all their information to the public. Plus it's ongoing investigation.

There's no doubt in my mind a lot will come out at trial that will shock the public. I think he was making a snuff film. Was reading info about child porn from FBI web site and they say there's big money in child porn. invite-only Secret underground newsgroups share it encoded and no doubt in my mind Jacques & Gagnon were buying and selling and we know at least Jacques was photographing it. I don't believe they were giving their own productions away for free. No others do according to FBI info about these sick people.

[eris]

Jacques does have another conviction-- in 1985 in Washington County for lewd and lascivious conduct. We are working to get the records in that case
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8587385&nav=menu183_7_2_5

Could this be the case of her sister? Isnt this case is about a "relative" that he raped , got pregnant but aborted it?

[nanandjim]

That he'd had all of his porn fantasies fulfilled in his girlfriend?
Juvenile 2 is a juvenile. How many porn fantasies can he have unless MJ is showing him porn tapes? I have read before about perverts/pedophiles showing porn tapes to their victims. That's what this sicko MJ was doing with his young victim. Denise said that she found a porn DVD in the master bedroom along with KY jelly. What the heck was she thinking? Come on. She had to suspect something!

[SuziQ]

I am reposting my last post in the previous thread. I think this is a good time to go back and do a refresher. I need one as well.

Please everyone. Take a few moments and look around this forum. There are answers to the questions everyone is asking. The facts are also in the affidavits. As rough as reading them may be. There is just no simple way to know what is being discussed unless you read them.

Link to Timeline:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66962

Affidavits:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66875

[christine2448]

Thank you suzie.

[Busylady]

AR mention that MJ be sent away on a business trip, could simply be that to AR the Breckenridge group was a business type thing Rauel was the boss and he could send MJ on business trips. I do not think the comment has anything to do with someone MJ actually worked with at Thermadyne.

[VTNance]

Jacques does have another conviction-- in 1985 in Washington County for lewd and lascivious conduct. We are working to get the records in that case
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8587385&nav=menu183_7_2_5

Could this be the case of her sister? Isnt this case is about a "relative" that he raped , got pregnant but aborted it?


It is the case with his sister.

[SuziQ]

Jacques does have another conviction-- in 1985 in Washington County for lewd and lascivious conduct. We are working to get the records in that case
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8587385&nav=menu183_7_2_5

Could this be the case of her sister? Isnt this case is about a "relative" that he raped , got pregnant but aborted it?

There is a more current article that clarifies the charges, IIRC, they were all dropped? I could be wrong. It should be in the media links section.

[SuziQ]

Thank you suzie.

Thank you for the new thread!

[Dante7]

>I am sure it has been posted, but I can't find it right now. What did MJ do
>for a living - he worked in some sort of office because one of the computers >that LE has tied to the emails was his "work" computer.

He worked for Thermadyne, in West Lebanon, NH. I can look out of the side door of the building I work in and see the place.

[Native New Yorker]

I posted this earlier today, and would like to know what any of you might think???

My theory
I have read each and every post since this case broke, cannot stop thinking of Why they had to kill Brooke.....

I think that there MAY have been some truth to the fake email that MJ wrote, supposedly from Brooke ....( paraphrasing here) " Sorry I was such a baby, will try to do better next time"

I think that Brooke knew what was going on, had already been "initiated into Breckinridge" in some fashion, but wanted OUT....
which would have ended the whole game for MJ and RG......the whole gig would have been up.....
so she had to be taken out.....
that is my opinion only, and I do think that they used her cousin to help to get her into it, perhaps Brooke had looked up to her at one time.....now the cousin would have to help "fix the problem"

[Native New Yorker]

And Christine, thanks for the new thread.... and for all of your clarification!

[VTNance]

There is a more current article that clarifies the charges, IIRC, they were all dropped? I could be wrong. It should be in the media links section.

Charges were dropped against him because he was a minor and the victim would not testify against him. I believe the father was jailed for this offence (the case was brought by the state). If not, he was jailed for something else; he definitely did time. I have been trying to get clarification of those facts.

[DeltaDawn]

I used the 12 year old references to illustrate that he has a fixation on that particular age and that was the age his chosen Vic needed to be..to satisfy his fantasy of torture, rape and murder. He used the age of 12 over and over..I don't think it is by mistake.

I think in his mind 12 years old is a cut off point between young girls and teens.

AT 13 we consider children to be teenagers. Being the sick pervert he was, raping, taking pics of his daughter prior to this...I think he shared pics with other pedos on line prior to JV1 being 13. Once she was 13 he started to take pics of her with her boyfriend to share with other perverts who wanted to see illegal, underage teen sex.
Yes those sites exist too.

[eris]

There is a more current article that clarifies the charges, IIRC, they were all dropped? I could be wrong. It should be in the media links section.


I think the "relative" refused to testify against him.

Edited to add: Oopps VTnance has more info above :)

[SuziQ]

Native NY, I have no clue as to why Brooke had to be murdered. It could be as simple as sexually torturing someone to death was a sick fantasy of MJ's. The only thing I'm sure of is that her death was planned in advance.

[SuziQ]

Charges were dropped against him because he was a minor and the victim would not testify against him. I believe the father was jailed for this offence (the case was brought by the state). If not, he was jailed for something else; he definitely did time. I have been trying to get clarification of those facts.

I'm not aware that he did time for the 1980's case. IIRC, MJ was 18. Geeze, now I need to go back and look for another article.

[Dante7]

>Not buying it.

>Only HALF of 18 year olds have had sex.

not disputing that. I didn't mean how common it is to be sexually active at that age. Just meant the language. Hey, back when I was that age, it wasn't difficult at all to lay hands on porn- print or movies. With the Net, it's even easier than than it was then.

>I do not believe that kind of sex talk is anything but totally uncommon for a >14 year old.

Perhaps I could amend that to "not unheard of"? Between hearing my peers talk when I was that age and knowing what sort of things go on now from friends in social services and knowing some younger people myself, it really doesn't surprise me at all. I didn't even blink when I first read it.

[eris]

AR mention that MJ be sent away on a business trip, could simply be that to AR the Breckenridge group was a business type thing Rauel was the boss and he could send MJ on business trips. I do not think the comment has anything to do with someone MJ actually worked with at Thermadyne.

Make sense

And if Jacques is working with a Thermadyne Boss here - maybe his laptop was already destroyed also or he doesnt have to admit that he has a work laptop and this laptop will just vanish. IMO.

[VTNance]

I'm not aware that he did time for the 1980's case. IIRC, MJ was 18. Geeze, now I need to go back and look for another article.


I'm sorry, I didn't mean that MJ did time for the 1980s case; he definitely did not. I meant that his father did time. They were both involved in assaulting the relative. I know that the father did time and I think it was for that offense. I will try to find verification.

[SuziQ]

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8618279

(snip)
Court records released today show his sex crime history began in 1985 when he was 18, charged with having sex with a 15-year-old relative.
She told police he had sex with her at least 100 times starting when she was eight.
But she refused to testify against him, so the charge of lewd and lascivious conduct had to be dismissed.

[Dante7]

Juvenile 2 is a juvenile. How many porn fantasies can he have unless MJ is showing him porn tapes? !


If he has internet access, or even friends who have it, or friends of friends, plenty. Not all porn sites require registration, and there's always file-sharing software. Zines, DVD's- not all that difficult to get if you know the right people. His parents or other family members (or siblings if he has them) may even have some and he simply knows where they keep it.

[DeltaDawn]

I posted this earlier today, and would like to know what any of you might think???

My theory
I have read each and every post since this case broke, cannot stop thinking of Why they had to kill Brooke.....

I think that there MAY have been some truth to the fake email that MJ wrote, supposedly from Brooke ....( paraphrasing here) " Sorry I was such a baby, will try to do better next time"

I think that Brooke knew what was going on, had already been "initiated into Breckinridge" in some fashion, but wanted OUT....
which would have ended the whole game for MJ and RG......the whole gig would have been up.....
so she had to be taken out.....
that is my opinion only, and I do think that they used her cousin to help to get her into it, perhaps Brooke had looked up to her at one time.....now the cousin would have to help "fix the problem"


I think the part in the email about acting like a big baby was MJ's way of just writing an email to make it look like she ran off with this guy from the internet. I really don't think it referenced anything to do with any of Brooke's real relationships or MJ.

[philamena]

Lordy I am trying to catch up. :)
From checko's post on thread 16-
I am completely and totally sickened by the fact that the families are idiots too. Do these people know nothing about sexual child predators???? :banghead:

DianeB posted this link / I went back to read it again.
Here's a link to the interview a reporter from that paper conducted with Brooke's grandmother, Lucinda Milne.....
.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...D=200880701027 (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880701027)

“He was a good uncle and he loves his children,” she said. “He’s just sick.”

OMG! What the he** is wrong with these people.
This creep doesn't love his family! I can't post.... :(

[SuziQ]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that MJ did time for the 1980s case; he definitely did not. I meant that his father did time. They were both involved in assaulting the relative. I know that the father did time and I think it was for that offense. I will try to find verification.

Other than a blog posting about MJ's dad being a baseball coach, I don't think anything has been found or verified about MJ's dad. The information about MJ's dad came from a local poster who said it was common knowledge that MJ and his father raped the sister. No criminal records or much of anything else has been located.

[Busylady]

IIRC Thermadyne already gave LE permission to search the work computer. Also wanted to make clear I do not think anyone from Thermadyne has anything at all to do with this.
Make sense

And if Jacques is working with a Thermadyne Boss here - maybe his laptop was already destroyed also or he doesnt have to admit that he has a work laptop and this laptop will just vanish. IMO.

[SuziQ]

Make sense

And if Jacques is working with a Thermadyne Boss here - maybe his laptop was already destroyed also or he doesnt have to admit that he has a work laptop and this laptop will just vanish. IMO.

The answer to MJ's computers is in the affidavits. IIRC, MJ's boss gave LE permission to look at his laptop.

[VTNance]

Other than a blog posting about MJ's dad being a baseball coach, I don't think anything has been found or verified about MJ's dad. The information about MJ's dad came from a local poster who said it was common knowledge that MJ and his father raped the sister. No criminal records or much of anything else has been located.

I am from the general area and it is well known and was verified to me verbally by the former Police Chief in Randolph some years ago.

[Chica]

Something that has been bothering me as of late is what AR referenced in the affidavit about 'pi**sing in her mouth'. Do you think it is because Brooke 'said something' that she wanted that to be done in her mouth? That has really been bothering me...where on earth would that come from??

[Amster]

In one of the affidavits....the e-mail one....MJ tells LE he has 2 computers. The work laptop and a desktop....(with the missing hard drive that he lied about being at Best Buy)...so, was the fake message to an internet lover from "Brooke" made on the laptop?

[eris]

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8618279

(snip)
Court records released today show his sex crime history began in 1985 when he was 18, charged with having sex with a 15-year-old relative.
She told police he had sex with her at least 100 times starting when she was eight.
But she refused to testify against him, so the charge of lewd and lascivious conduct had to be dismissed.

So Jacques started his sexual escapades when he is 11 years old? :eek:

[lightinthedark]

I've found this site when looking for info about this case. I lived in the Upper Valley most of my life... I know a handful of people that work at Thermadyne. As much as it makes me sick (not strong enough of a word to describe) to admit, I have met Mike Jacques and his wife a couple of times through a mutual friend a few years ago and have even been to their house once. It shocks me that I never caught wind of his past because everyone knows everything about everyone in that area. I had no idea he was on probation when I met him. The whole thing completely freaks me out. All I can think about is that poor little girl...
It makes me wonder how many victims he's made.

IMO LITD

[SuziQ]

I am from the general area and it is well known and was verified to me verbally by the former Police Chief in Randolph some years ago.

Personally, I give the info alot of credit. But if their is no verifiable link, it usually won't be taken as fact by everyone here.

[eris]

The answer to MJ's computers is in the affidavits. IIRC, MJ's boss gave LE permission to look at his laptop.


Right. Cary Levitt approved Computer Forensic Team to check the laptop.

[Hailiejade77]

Native New Yorker ---I think that Brooke knew what was going on, had already been "initiated into Breckinridge" in some fashion, but wanted OUT....
which would have ended the whole game for MJ and RG......the whole gig would have been up.....
so she had to be taken out.....
that is my opinion only, and I do think that they used her cousin to help to get her into it, perhaps Brooke had looked up to her at one time.....now the cousin would have to help "fix the problem"


I totally agree with you on this!

[Carrington]

MJ's job was as a Project Manager, whatever that means.

Also, wanted to add:
From reading a couple of bldgs. A couple of girls said Brooke was having a problem with her mother over her purple streaks and make-up.
True or not I don't know. But, that could be a reason Cassandra said she wasn't mad at Brooke and to come home.

At almost 13, I can see this. :)
IMO

[Native New Yorker]

Suppose that Brooke did know what was going on with both the uncle and stepfather, and Juv 1/Juv 2.....
suppose she had begun to be initiated into their horrid activities, and then said no, this is not for me....
and threatened to tell?
Then they would have had no choice ( in their sick minds) but to get rid of her.....

[VTNance]

Personally, I give the info alot of credit. But if their is no verifiable link, it usually won't be taken as fact by everyone here.

I'll keep working on it, I'm pretty sure there is a link to verification in print somewhere! :waitasec:

When I first heard that part of the story I was definitely thinking "come on, this has to be crazy rumor!" It seemed 'way too sick to be true.

[Adalena935]

I used the 12 year old references to illustrate that he has a fixation on that particular age and that was the age his chosen Vic needed to be..to satisfy his fantasy of torture, rape and murder. He used the age of 12 over and over..I don't think it is by mistake.

I think in his mind 12 years old is a cut off point between young girls and teens.

AT 13 we consider children to be teenagers. Being the sick pervert he was, raping, taking pics of his daughter prior to this...I think he shared pics with other pedos on line prior to JV1 being 13. Once she was 13 he started to take pics of her with her boyfriend to share with other perverts who wanted to see illegal, underage teen sex.
Yes those sites exist too.

I think the 12 year old reference was just lies he told JUVENILE 1. I think most of what he did was lies to facilitate his illegal child assault/porn criminal activities.

I think it's possible Jacques took photos of JUVENILE 1 prior to age 13. We just don't know. Who knows what FBI might uncover now that his partner in crime Gagnon has been charged by Alabama state authorities being withessed taking computers into his AL house.

[eris]

I'll keep working on it, I'm pretty sure there is a link to verification in print somewhere! :waitasec:

When I first heard that part of the story I was definitely thinking "come on, this has to be crazy rumor!" It seemed 'way too sick to be true.

What's the name of MJ's father?

[nanandjim]

Something that has been bothering me as of late is what AR referenced in the affidavit about 'pi**sing in her mouth'. Do you think it is because Brooke 'said something' that she wanted that to be done in her mouth? That has really been bothering me...where on earth would that come from??
I personally think that it was done to her and she wanted it done to Brooke "to see how she would like it." I think that she was kind of jealous that Brooke was being targeted. I know that sounds sick, but I think that AR felt special from the attention and didn't want the attention to be shifted to Brooke because she was now getting too old.

In one of the affidavits, AR said that most girls graduate from Breckenridge by age 12.

[SuziQ]

I'll keep working on it, I'm pretty sure there is a link to verification in print somewhere! :waitasec:

When I first heard that part of the story I was definitely thinking "come on, this has to be crazy rumor!" It seemed 'way too sick to be true.

That would be wonderful if you could find that! It would explain why MJ started abusing his sister when he was 11. I also find it scary that MJ's dad was a little league baseball coach!

[nanandjim]

[B]...
I think that Brooke knew what was going on, had already been "initiated into Breckinridge" in some fashion, but wanted OUT....

I think that Brooke might have been groomed by MJ, meaning that she was treated very special when she spent the night. It was fun, treats were given, whatever she wanted. Then, when it came time for MJ to take it to the next step, she balked. It didn't work on her. Hence, Brooke then became a "problem" because she wouldn't submit or cooperate. I still believe the arms crossed in the convenience store is telling. She doesn't look comfortable around her uncle. IMO, if you act different if you are comfortable, even hugging your uncle. She was only 12 yo, after all.

[VTNance]

That would be wonderful if you could find that! It would explain why MJ started abusing his sister when he was 11. I also find it scary that MJ's dad was a little league baseball coach!


:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek:

I'll try to track it down.

[nanandjim]

That would be wonderful if you could find that! It would explain why MJ started abusing his sister when he was 11. I also find it scary that MJ's dad was a little league baseball coach!
It falls right in line with a pedophile. It would not surprise me to find out that MJ was also abused by his father.

[eris]

That would be wonderful if you could find that! It would explain why MJ started abusing his sister when he was 11. I also find it scary that MJ's dad was a little league baseball coach!

Do you think MJ was raped by his own Dad too?

[Adalena935]

I've found this site when looking for info about this case. I lived in the Upper Valley most of my life... I know a handful of people that work at Thermadyne. As much as it makes me sick (not strong enough of a word to describe) to admit, I have met Mike Jacques and his wife a couple of times through a mutual friend a few years ago and have even been to their house once. It shocks me that I never caught wind of his past because everyone knows everything about everyone in that area. I had no idea he was on probation when I met him. The whole thing completely freaks me out. All I can think about is that poor little girl...
It makes me wonder how many victims he's made.

IMO LITD

I don't think most of us rush to search criminal historys, or even have reason to have that in our minds, just because we happen to meet someone a couple of times or even goto their house once. Thanks for sharing that.

[lighthouselover]

Suppose that Brooke did know what was going on with both the uncle and stepfather, and Juv 1/Juv 2.....
suppose she had begun to be initiated into their horrid activities, and then said no, this is not for me....
and threatened to tell?
Then they would have had no choice ( in their sick minds) but to get rid of her.....

Could be, but I don't think Brooke had been "initiated". I think MJ attempted several times to molest Brooke and she finally told him to leave her alone or she would tell. This is one reason why I think he mentions the part about "her mom leaving her dad" in the emails. I think Brooke had already (at least) told either her mother or Savannah. And that person confronted MJ.

That was when Brooke became "a problem that needed to be dealt with".

All my speculation of course.

[Dante7]

Something that has been bothering me as of late is what AR referenced in the affidavit about 'pi**sing in her mouth'. Do you think it is because Brooke 'said something' that she wanted that to be done in her mouth? That has really been bothering me...where on earth would that come from??

It's also equally possible that AR had gone through that herself. Urolagnia's an established fetish, after all.

[dark_shadows]

I cannot believe that I had a post here that took me forever to type lost because of the serving being down!!!!!


Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Dante7]

Something that has been bothering me as of late is what AR referenced in the affidavit about 'pi**sing in her mouth'. Do you think it is because Brooke 'said something' that she wanted that to be done in her mouth? That has really been bothering me...where on earth would that come from??

It's also equally possible that AR had gone through that herself. Urolagnia's a well-established fetish, after all.

[dark_shadows]

Something that has been bothering me as of late is what AR referenced in the affidavit about 'pi**sing in her mouth'. Do you think it is because Brooke 'said something' that she wanted that to be done in her mouth? That has really been bothering me...where on earth would that come from??
My dearest Chica,:blowkiss:
I had a post wriiten out pertaing to that, when I hit the reply button, the server was down and I lost the post.:furious:

I will try again if you like.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Dante7]

True or not I don't know. But, that could be a reason Cassandra said she wasn't mad at Brooke and to come home.

yeah- really, issues between a 12-year-old girl and her mom could be anything. Occam's razor favours this.

[SuziQ]

Do you think MJ was raped by his own Dad too?

I think if it's true that MJ's dad was raping his daughter when she was 8, it wouldn't be a stretch that the dad was raping or encouraging MJ to abuse his sister.

[Jaded]

http://cardboardgods.baseballtoaster.com/archives/1039625.html

Blog about MJ's father.

[SuziQ]

This is why we are slow, holy cow. And 87 reading here and 153 reading JBR.

396 (151 members and 245 guests) Most users ever online was 445, Today at 01:32 PM

[Chica]

My dearest Chica,:blowkiss:
I had a post wriiten out pertaing to that, when I hit the relpy button, the server was down and I lost the post.:furious:

I will try again if you like.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

You are always so kind and thoughtful! (I had the same thing happen to me - I thought it was my computer, so I rebooted it!:crazy:)

[Floh]

My dearest Chica,:blowkiss:
I had a post wriiten out pertaing to that, when I hit the reply button, the server was down and I lost the post.:furious:

I will try again if you like.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Because i have had problems with Websleuth's servers going down in the past, and therefore losing posts, i now always write out posts in other documents and copy them here so they aren't lost. your words, particularly — to my mind, dear dark shadows — are always most valuable to me. :blowkiss:

i want to hear what you have to say (this does not negate everyone else. i read you all fervently).

be aware, all, i haven't posted so much on Brooke's threads, as i'm simply reading and reading. i have nothing of value to add at all. but i'm here when i can be. :blowkiss:

[christine2448]

This is why we are slow, holy cow. And 87 reading here and 153 reading JBR.

396 (151 members and 245 guests) Most users ever online was 445, Today at 01:32 PM

Currently Active Users (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/online.php): 429 (161 members and 268 guests)

[christine2448]

Right before the webpage went down, I had recorded this:

Currently Active Users (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/online.php): 440 (165 members and 275 guests) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/misc/whos_online.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/online.php)Most users ever online was 441, Today at 03:32 PM.


Brooke Bennett, Vermont (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=163) (125 Viewing)
On July 2, 2008 Brooke Bennett's body was found after last being seen with her uncle on June 25.

JonBenet Ramsey (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23) (70 Viewing)
What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.

[Floh]

This is why we are slow, holy cow. And 87 reading here and 153 reading JBR.

396 (151 members and 245 guests) Most users ever online was 445, Today at 01:32 PM

Is that EST, Suzie? cos i'm on CET, here and am trying to figure it out. this has to be the most accurate and best site on the web for Brooke. IMO.

we are all FOR BROOKE! and want JUSTICE for BROOKE!

[Native New Yorker]

Suppose that Brooke had somehow been taken to the first step with either MJ or Gagnon.
Suppose she regretted it, hated it, threatened to tell, etc....
to me that would have been the reason to order a machine, as in " you do not like what we have to offer, then how about this?" That is how I view escalating to a machine, in this case....
punishing her, then getting rid of her.....

As for the p**ing in her mouth, yes, I know it is a fetish, but in this case, with a reluctant girl, I view it as just more anger and punishment.

[lightinthedark]

In the affidavits containing the emails, something was said about the "phone company" if I remember correctly? I'm trying to go back to read that affidavit but I can't open it for some reason. While reading it, I was wondering what he meant by it, if anything? Anyone have an opinion about it, or a link to it?

Thank you.

[Floh]

I answered my own question, here in CET land: Most users ever online was 445, Today at 09:32 PM

it's now 22:43.

Currently Active Users: 437 (155 members and 282 guests)

[Dante7]

As for the p**ing in her mouth, yes, I know it is a fetish, but in this case, with a reluctant girl, I view it as just more anger and punishment.


Yeah- but in this case, the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. AR could have done it before, but suggested it knowing the Brooke wouldn't like it (and, if AR had done it, she probably didn't like it the first time either)

[dark_shadows]

Something that has been bothering me as of late is what AR referenced in the affidavit about 'pi**sing in her mouth'. Do you think it is because Brooke 'said something' that she wanted that to be done in her mouth? That has really been bothering me...where on earth would that come from??
My very dearest Chica,:blowkiss:
I will try this again and hope that the server stays up when I hit the reply button.

This is what was said in the email word for word;

"I just want her to suffer and she pi**ed in her mouth and see how she likes it."

My opinion and my opinion only. A small scenario what may have happened.
She attempted to recruit Brooke into Breckenridge. Brooke said no and they argued. Brooke most likely tried to talk her into leaving Breckenridge to help protect her cousin. But the cousin did not see it as that. She saw it as a threat and had to report it to the Breckenridge contact. She was then in turn told that they were not happy with her. They blamed her for attempting to recruit someone that would most likely report them. Her father was threatened so she had to scramble to get back on Brooke's goodside so that Brooke would not turn anyone in. So the plan was devised to silence Brooke.

I can tell you that in the inmates in the prisons here, use the saying "pi**ed in their mouth" when an inmate engages in a discussion or arguement that the other one feels is badmouthing.
There are many ways that they use that saying depending on the circumstances when it is being said.

Another example in a sentence;
The inmates say that Johnny pi**ed in his mouth because he told the unit Officer that his canteen items were stolen when he was out of the unit.

So the saying is not that they want anyone to pi** in Brooke's mouth, it means that she said something that did not go over well at all.



Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Native New Yorker]

Dark shadows, thank you for that insight into what AR might have meant by saying that!

And, yes, I also agree with the scenario you have described as being very possibly what happened....
I think that Brooke knew enough to make her very, very dangerous.....

[Carrington]

Well, we know for sure MJ would use prison Lingo, and pass it on to AR

IMO

[dark_shadows]

Because i have had problems with Websleuth's servers going down in the past, and therefore losing posts, i now always write out posts in other documents and copy them here so they aren't lost. your words, particularly — to my mind, dear dark shadows — are always most valuable to me. :blowkiss:

i want to hear what you have to say (this does not negate everyone else. i read you all fervently).

be aware, all, i haven't posted so much on Brooke's threads, as i'm simply reading and reading. i have nothing of value to add at all. but i'm here when i can be. :blowkiss:
My dear sweet Floh,:blowkiss:
I Love you dearly my friend.
Thank-you so much for your advise, I value you so very much.

Your words are close in my heart and I always always look forward to seeing you.

I just put up a very short version of my opinion.
I am too upset right now to try and peck out the whole post that I had before the server went down.

All of my Love and Respect to you my very dear one,
dark_shadows

[Floh]

Suppose that Brooke had somehow been taken to the first step with either MJ or Gagnon.
Suppose she regretted it, hated it, threatened to tell, etc....
to me that would have been the reason to order a machine, as in " you do not like what we have to offer, then how about this?" That is how I view escalating to a machine, in this case....
punishing her, then getting rid of her.....

As for the p**ing in her mouth, yes, I know it is a fetish, but in this case, with a reluctant girl, I view it as just more anger and punishment.

Where did the money come from for this @@@machine? $1,000 isn't small change? they were selling child porn and had been for a long time, IMO. (the word "kiddie" porn reduces the charge to clowning-around language makes me burn to see it,to my mind. makes me very, very angry to see it.)

[dark_shadows]

Dark shadows, thank you for that insight into what AR might have meant by saying that!

And, yes, I also agree with the scenario you have described as being very possibly what happened....
I think that Brooke knew enough to make her very, very dangerous.....
My dearest Native New Yorker,:blowkiss:
It is such a pleasure to hear from you.

You are very welcome for the insight, I appreciate it very much that you took the time to read it and then post to me.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Cornflower]

If he has internet access, or even friends who have it, or friends of friends, plenty. Not all porn sites require registration, and there's always file-sharing software. Zines, DVD's- not all that difficult to get if you know the right people. His parents or other family members (or siblings if he has them) may even have some and he simply knows where they keep it.

That´s just it - a child at that age doesn´t know the difference between real and unreal. I wish that when people become sexually active (not only with themselves) they have some brains too to take time to learn. It is still very hard to believe that an average teenage girl would say "use me like a s***" to her boyfriend. I don´t mind what adults do or say, we have more experience and know a thing or too about sex. If nobody in family talks with teenagers about sex, the whole issue remains a secret and that´s not good.
Sorry, OT too.

[Floh]

My very dearest Chica,:blowkiss:
I will try this again and hope that the server stays up when I hit the reply button.

This is what was said in the email word for word;

"I just want her to suffer and she pi**ed in her mouth and see how she likes it."

My opinion and my opinion only. A small scenario what may have happened.
She attempted to recruit Brooke into Breckenridge. Brooke said no and they argued. Brooke most likely tried to talk her into leaving Breckenridge to help protect her cousin. But the cousin did not see it as that. She saw it as a threat and had to report it to the Breckenridge contact. She was then in turn told that they were not happy with her. They blamed her for attempting to recruit someone that would most likely report them. Her father was threatened so she had to scramble to get back on Brooke's goodside so that Brooke would not turn anyone in. So the plan was devised to silence Brooke.

I can tell you that in the inmates in the prisons here, use the saying "pi**ed in their mouth" when an inmate engages in a discussion or arguement that the other one feels is badmouthing.
There are many ways that they use that saying depending on the circumstances when it is being said.

Another example in a sentence;
The inmates say that Johnny pi**ed in his mouth because he told the unit Officer that his canteen items were stolen when he was out of the unit.

So the saying is not that they want anyone to pi** in Brooke's mouth, it means that she said something that did not go over well at all.



Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Thank you for your insight.

[Amster]

This is why we are slow, holy cow. And 87 reading here and 153 reading JBR.

396 (151 members and 245 guests) Most users ever online was 445, Today at 01:32 PM

wow...didn't something happen to the IS site? Might have brought a lot of new members?

[lightinthedark]

Thank you Dark Shadows for shedding some light on the lingo. :)

[DianeB]

LITD, welcome. I'd be interested in hearing your impressions about what you found MJ to be like when you met him, and maybe the dyanmic between MJ and his wife.

[Cornflower]

So the saying is not that they want anyone to pi** in Brooke's mouth, it means that she said something that did not go over well at all.


Dark_Shadows, thank you! I had no idea that the saying could mean something like that.

[becca]

DS thanks for that reminder of the phrases alternate meaning. In this case you might just be right ...That would explain the need to do this quickly. I know a months worth of planning but its still quickly.

[MCDRAW]

My very dearest Chica,:blowkiss:
I will try this again and hope that the server stays up when I hit the reply button.

This is what was said in the email word for word;

"I just want her to suffer and she pi**ed in her mouth and see how she likes it."

My opinion and my opinion only. A small scenario what may have happened.
She attempted to recruit Brooke into Breckenridge. Brooke said no and they argued. Brooke most likely tried to talk her into leaving Breckenridge to help protect her cousin. But the cousin did not see it as that. She saw it as a threat and had to report it to the Breckenridge contact. She was then in turn told that they were not happy with her. They blamed her for attempting to recruit someone that would most likely report them. Her father was threatened so she had to scramble to get back on Brooke's goodside so that Brooke would not turn anyone in. So the plan was devised to silence Brooke.

I can tell you that in the inmates in the prisons here, use the saying "pi**ed in their mouth" when an inmate engages in a discussion or arguement that the other one feels is badmouthing.
There are many ways that they use that saying depending on the circumstances when it is being said.

Another example in a sentence;
The inmates say that Johnny pi**ed in his mouth because he told the unit Officer that his canteen items were stolen when he was out of the unit.

So the saying is not that they want anyone to pi** in Brooke's mouth, it means that she said something that did not go over well at all.



Love and Respect,
dark_shadows


dark_shadows,

Do you know if teenagers use this term or just inmates? I haven't ever heard it nor did I know it was a fetish. I learn something new everyday. It makes more sense to me used as a term of badmouthing and or/snitching.

Thank you,

MC

[Elley Mae]

Dark_Shadows that makes a lot of sense,Brooke had been spending time at her cousins house, maybe she felt comfortable in slowly telling Brooke as a way of getting out of the (program). I'm sure a lot of MJ and Juv1 conversations were in person.

[dark_shadows]

DS thanks for that reminder of the phrases alternate meaning. In this case you might just be right ...That would explain the need to do this quickly. I know a months worth of planning but its still quickly.
Dearest Becca,:blowkiss:
Thank-you.
It may very well be that A.R. needed to get Brooke back on her goodside after she was told that Breckenridge was not happy with her and she stalled Brooke from going to anyone with the knowledge. That could be the reason why the planning was in the works for a month. She probably lead Brooke to believe that she was out of the program and that it was being investigated and it was secret.

Maybe.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[Saving Grace]

IS site has been down for two days, so imagine a lot of them are here now.

[Floh]

dark_shadows,

Do you know if teenagers use this term or just inmates? I haven't ever heard it nor did I know it was a fetish. I learn something new everyday. It makes more sense to me used as a term of badmouthing and or/snitching.

Thank you,

MC

Purile as it sounds, think 'watersports'. there are people who do this (in mouths) as well as p*ss*ng on one anothers' bodies for kicks. but i do believe D_S's interpretation in this case. :(

vile, but true. :puke:

[lightinthedark]

LITD, welcome. I'd be interested in hearing your impressions about what you found MJ to be like when you met him, and maybe the dyanmic between MJ and his wife.

Thank you. This is what I find disturbing. They seemed like a normal couple IMO. Nothing seemed unusual (I only met them a couple of times). They seemed like they had a happy marriage. I didn't know either one of them well enough (obviously) to know if they were having problems at that time. He was a likable guy, which makes me cringe now to say. At the time he had a decent job at a different company which required him to travel a little. He dressed well and was neatly groomed. (This was a few years back.) The pictures on TV and in the paper certainly show another side. IMO.

[nanandjim]

MJ's job was as a Project Manager, whatever that means.

Also, wanted to add:
From reading a couple of bldgs. A couple of girls said Brooke was having a problem with her mother over her purple streaks and make-up.
True or not I don't know. But, that could be a reason Cassandra said she wasn't mad at Brooke and to come home.

At almost 13, I can see this. :)
IMO
I thought that the reason that Cassandra pleaded for Brooke to come home and that she wasn't mad was because MJ told her about the correspondence on the Myspace. I can well imagine that she believed MJ, at that point. Of course, I just had to roll my eyes. This is my speculation.

[MCDRAW]

I thought that the reason that Cassandra pleaded for Brooke to come home and that she wasn't mad was because MJ told her about the correspondence on the Myspace. I can well imagine that she believed MJ, at that point. Of course, I just had to roll my eyes. This is my speculation.


I believe LE also believed MJ at first about the Myspace too.

[dark_shadows]

dark_shadows,

Do you know if teenagers use this term or just inmates? I haven't ever heard it nor did I know it was a fetish. I learn something new everyday. It makes more sense to me used as a term of badmouthing and or/snitching.

Thank you,

MC
My very dearest MCDRAW,:blowkiss:
Due to the fact that Jacques was incarcerated here and used the jailhouse lingo, it is without a doubt that he would use this at home or anywhere else without even thinking about it. That is the way it is. So anyone around Jacques would have heard things.
Sure teenagers could use that also. Teens are always using slang words they hear from someone they know, movies, videos ect.
I can say that when I would stand in the visiting room to oversee the visiting, alot of the children would sometimes say things that the inmates would say.
They talk like the one that they were there to visit.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[SuziQ]

IS site has been down for two days, so imagine a lot of them are here now.

Our mods will be busy......

[MCDRAW]

Thank you. This is what I find disturbing. They seemed like a normal couple IMO. Nothing seemed unusual (I only met them a couple of times). They seemed like they had a happy marriage. I didn't know either one of them well enough (obviously) to know if they were having problems at that time. He was a likable guy, which makes me cringe now to say. At the time he had a decent job at a different company which required him to travel a little. He dressed well and was neatly groomed. (This was a few years back.) The pictures on TV and in the paper certainly show another side. IMO.


Child molesters con people into thinking that they are normal. That is how they continue to lure new victims in. They are good at fooling people.

[MCDRAW]

My very dearest MCDRAW,:blowkiss:
Due to the fact that Jacques was incarcerated here and used the jailhouse lingo, it is without a doubt that he would use this at home or anywhere else without even thinking about it. That is the way it is. So anyone around Jacques would have heard things.
Sure teenagers could use that also. Teens are always using slang words they hear from someone they know, movies, videos ect.
I can say that when I would stand in the visiting room to oversee the visiting alot of the children would sometimes say things that the inmates would say.
They talk like the one that they were there to visit.


Love and Respect,
drak_shadows


dark_shadows,

That makes sense to me. I know people that spend any length of time in prison do take on that mentatlity.

Thanks,

MC

[dark_shadows]

Thank you Dark Shadows for shedding some light on the lingo. :)

Dark_Shadows that makes a lot of sense,Brooke had been spending time at her cousins house, maybe she felt comfortable in slowly telling Brooke as a way of getting out of the (program). I'm sure a lot of MJ and Juv1 conversations were in person.

Dark_Shadows, thank you! I had no idea that the saying could mean something like that.
Dearest Lightinthedark, Elley Mae and Cornflower,:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

I am grateful that you are all here. Thank-you very much for your posts.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[fran]

Suppose that Brooke did know what was going on with both the uncle and stepfather, and Juv 1/Juv 2.....
suppose she had begun to be initiated into their horrid activities, and then said no, this is not for me....
and threatened to tell?
Then they would have had no choice ( in their sick minds) but to get rid of her.....

I think you may be on to the right idea here. The last computer entry allegedly made by Brooke but then altered by MJ and I believe RG, where she allegedly talks about not acting like she did the last time. I can't remember the exact wording but it made ME think that it was possible MJ had attempted something prior, she refused, and that's most likely why he was now 'gong to get even with her,' for pushing him away. But he was trying to make her sound like this time she was going to just go along with it. OH, and someone else being there too, like she'd be ok with that!:eek:

JMHO
fran

[eris]

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8647568&nav=menu183_6_4_4

complete video of the funeral

[SailorMoon]

Someone earlier said this is his sister. All I have to say is, he is one sick eff. That is all.

Jacques does have another conviction-- in 1985 in Washington County for lewd and lascivious conduct. We are working to get the records in that case
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8587385&nav=menu183_7_2_5

Could this be the case of her sister? Isnt this case is about a "relative" that he raped , got pregnant but aborted it?

[SailorMoon]

They referred to Brooke in the affidavits as THE PROBLEM. I think she knew what was up...or he'd tried something on her and they knew she was going to tell. I'm thinking also he'd tried something with Savannah too, judging by the "c" word reference to her. MJ didn't like her at all. Who knows, maybe Brooke and Savannah even snubbed them or made cracks about the incestuous couple, well, not true incest but you know what I mean. I bet Savannah and Brooke had a good clue of what the deal was between AR and MJ and let them know it. Just my idea anyway.

I posted this earlier today, and would like to know what any of you might think???

My theory
I have read each and every post since this case broke, cannot stop thinking of Why they had to kill Brooke.....

I think that there MAY have been some truth to the fake email that MJ wrote, supposedly from Brooke ....( paraphrasing here) " Sorry I was such a baby, will try to do better next time"

I think that Brooke knew what was going on, had already been "initiated into Breckinridge" in some fashion, but wanted OUT....
which would have ended the whole game for MJ and RG......the whole gig would have been up.....
so she had to be taken out.....
that is my opinion only, and I do think that they used her cousin to help to get her into it, perhaps Brooke had looked up to her at one time.....now the cousin would have to help "fix the problem"

[CarpeDiem]

Thank you Dark Shadows for shedding some light on the lingo. :)

Unfortunately though, it really is a fetish too. I found that out years ago with some of the crap that used to come into my junk folder at an old yahoo email account. And, knowing what was going on here and that MJ used on AR every dark sexual fantasy there was and probably invented some new ones, I think it's likely she meant it in the sexual fetish way.:( I'll say again, IMO sometimes AR was talking the way she was, with so much sexuality, because that is what she knew they liked to hear.

[DeltaDawn]

Someone earlier said this is his sister. All I have to say is, he is one sick eff. That is all.

Yes that pertains to the sister he raped, got pregnant from the rapes and had an abortion. Refused to testify..I suppose out of fear and family persistance to leave it alone. What a wonderful family!

[Carrington]

Thank you. This is what I find disturbing. They seemed like a normal couple IMO. Nothing seemed unusual (I only met them a couple of times). They seemed like they had a happy marriage. I didn't know either one of them well enough (obviously) to know if they were having problems at that time. He was a likable guy, which makes me cringe now to say. At the time he had a decent job at a different company which required him to travel a little. He dressed well and was neatly groomed. (This was a few years back.) The pictures on TV and in the paper certainly show another side. IMO.

Welcome
Taking into consideration it's been a few years, did the Jaques seem to live beyond their means? Was their house furnished expensively, lots of adult toys?
I know I'm being nosy, :rolleyes: just trying to find out if MJ was selling porn.
Thanks
IMO

[nanandjim]

They referred to Brooke in the affidavits as THE PROBLEM. I think she knew what was up...or he'd tried something on her and they knew she was going to tell. I'm thinking also he'd tried something with Savannah too, judging by the "c" word reference to her. MJ didn't like her at all. Who knows, maybe Brooke and Savannah even snubbed them or made cracks about the incestuous couple, well, not true incest but you know what I mean. I bet Savannah and Brooke had a good clue of what the deal was between AR and MJ and let them know it. Just my idea anyway.
What if Brooke accidentally stumbled upon something. Let's say that Brooke spent the night one night; and AR was in the bedroom with MJ early one morning before Brooke awakened. Perhaps, Denise was off at work or somewhere. Brooke woke up and either knocked on the bedroom door or saw AR exit from the bedroom with nothing on. Perhaps, she asked AR what was going on and AR told her something. That could be a reason that Breckenridge was mad at her and why Brooke had become a "problem."

I think that something happened around the time that they started plotting to make Brooke disappear. I bet AR has told police or I hope that she has. She probably has minimized her role, but police will probably be able to piece it together. I also think that MJ will try to negotiate a deal. Part of that deal will have to be to tell everything, sort of like Dennis Rader.

[DeltaDawn]

My dear ds,

Thank you so much for that info on jail house slang. I had a feeling that is what she was talking about.. I have heard very similiar expressions. "What's that **** you be talking?" So I am glad you could verify for us the true meaaning of AR's expression..what a lovely mouth that girl has...between that and the porn movies she has viewed with her Dad, it must be hard for in school for her to make a coherent sentence.
DD

[dark_shadows]

Purile as it sounds, think 'watersports'. there are people who do this (in mouths) as well as p*ss*ng on one anothers' bodies for kicks. but i do believe D_S's interpretation in this case. :(

vile, but true. :puke:
My dear Floh,:blowkiss:
Thank-you very much.

By the statement word for word "She pi**ed in her mouth", (in reference to Brooke) that is why I can say that my opinion of the interpretation I gave is what it was meant to be. There is nothing at all in that sentence that would indicate that anyone wanted to pi** in Brooke's mouth. Thank-you for your support.


All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[SuziQ]

IMO, if Brooke had info about MJ and AR, or was approached sexually and refused, they would not have waited almost a month to get rid of her. There would have been too much opportunity for Brooke to tell someine. If anything, I think MJ made up a reason that Brooke was a problem to convince AR to go along.

[lightinthedark]

Welcome
Taking into consideration it's been a few years, did the Jaques seem to live beyond their means? Was their house furnished expensively, lots of adult toys?
I know I'm being nosy, :rolleyes: just trying to find out if MJ was selling porn.
Thanks
IMO

To be honest, I can't really say for sure. I thought the house was pretty big but I didn't see any toys like, 4 wheelers, boats, or anything like that. Their house had decent furniture but it didn't appear to be new or really expensive. It was tastefully decorated. I don't know if they built the house themselves, hired contractors, or if it's a pre fabricated home. That could make a big difference in cost. All IMO.

[legallee]

Unfortunately though, it really is a fetish too. I found that out years ago with some of the crap that used to come into my junk folder at an old yahoo email account. And, knowing what was going on here and that MJ used on AR every dark sexual fantasy there was and probably invented some new ones, I think it's likely she meant it in the sexual fetish way.:( I'll say again, IMO sometimes AR was talking the way she was, with so much sexuality, because that is what she knew they liked to hear.

I don't think it was a fetish way at all. I think she said it out of anger. P*ssing in one's mouth is degrading to most....I think she wanted to "degrade" her. She had anger in those emails.

[philamena]

Something that has been bothering me as of late is what AR referenced in the affidavit about 'pi**sing in her mouth'. Do you think it is because Brooke 'said something' that she wanted that to be done in her mouth? That has really been bothering me...where on earth would that come from??
Chica,
Please tell me that you're not serious? :waitasec:
Brooke was a 12 yr old girl...she wouldn't even think of something so vile.

[DeltaDawn]

I believe that from the day Jacques started to hatch this plan of kidnapping Brooke it was only one way in his mind that it ended..in her sadistic death. We have 2 references previous to him telling the 18 year old that he was going to murder her like he did the 12 year old in or from Arizona, by slitting her throat. (Although there is no proof he ever did that..he said he did)

Then we have the references he made to AR about Breckenridge that the first girl gets to live, the second gets their throat cut and their mom will also die.

Then in another statement AR says that most girls leave Breckenridge by the time they are 12 years old, but she isn't really clear herself why..she guesses they won't do things.

Brooke was 12 years old at the time of her death..about to turn 13. If he was going to fulfill this fantasy of the 12 year old dying at his hands violently..as well as raped and tortured he had to do it now.

This was premediated , I'd say over years, he knew exactly what was going to happen to Brooke that day. I also wonder how many other 12 year old or younger vics there are of his.

I think that he set up AR to be angry at Brooke, therefore gaining AR's further confidence in getting her to "the party". I don't think that anything had happened to Brooke yet. However I think MJ told AR that something had happened with Brooke and that she was about to tell on all of them. I just see this as the way MJ has always manipulated AR, telling her things that others are thinking and saying that probably weren't true.

I think he has had a fantasy about raping, torturing and slitting the throat of a 12 year old girl for many years..atleast since 1993. I think if someone pulled his coounseling session files they would find that fantasy there. Brooke would have turned 13 this coming up weekend..that's why he needed to act fast. He needed a 12 year old that was within the family..that is the only way this fantasy would work for him.

[HarvestMoon]

It seems like Denise did attend the funeral today. She was at the podium when her young daughter spoke.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BT&Date=20080709&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=807090802&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=10

[DianeB]

Thanks for your insights, LITD. It must have freaked you out a little when this all came to light.

[SuziQ]

It seems like Denise did attend the funeral today. She was at the podium when her young daughter spoke.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BT&Date=20080709&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=807090802&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=10

Denise has no class whatsoever.

[legallee]

Chica,
Please tell me that you're not serious? :waitasec:
Brooke was a 12 yr old girl...she wouldn't even think of something so vile.

I think you're the only one thinking it. I think you've misunderstood Chica.

I get it as Chica is saying AR may have said those things about the p*ssing in her mouth because she thinks Brooke said something that could jeopardize Breckenridge.

[HarvestMoon]

Denise has no class whatsoever.

Did you see the funeral footage? I thought I noticed Cassandra being warmer toward Denise than Denise was towarrd Cassandra, when Denise and her daughter stopped for Courtney to hug Cassandra.

[SuziQ]

Did you see the funeral footage? I thought I noticed Cassandra being warmer toward Denise than Denise was towarrd Cassandra, when Denise and her daughter stopped for Courtney to hug Cassandra.

I've only watched a brief vid of snippets of the funeral. I will definitely have to watch the entire thing.

[dark_shadows]

I believe that from the day Jacques started to hatch this plan of kidnapping Brooke it was only one way in his mind that it ended..in her sadistic death. We have 2 references previous to him telling the 18 year old that he was going to murder her like he did the 12 year old in or from Arizona, by slitting her throat. (Although there is no proof he ever did that..he said he did)

Then we have the references he made to AR about Breckenridge that the first girl gets to live, the second gets their throat cut and their mom will also die.

Then in another statement AR says that most girls leave Breckenridge by the time they are 12 years old, but she isn't really clear herself why..she guesses they won't do things.

Brooke was 12 years old at the time of her death..about to turn 13. If he was going to fulfill this fantasy of the 12 year old dying at his hands violently..as well as raped and tortured he had to do it now.

This was premediated , I'd say over years, he knew exactly what was going to happen to Brooke that day. I also wonder how many other 12 year old or younger vics there are of his.

I think that he set up AR to be angry at Brooke, therefore gaining AR's further confidence in getting her to "the party". I don't think that anything had happened to Brooke yet. However I think MJ told AR that something had happened with Brooke and that she was about to tell on all of them. I just see this as the way MJ has always manipulated AR, telling her things that others are thinking and saying that probably weren't true.

I think he has had a fantasy about raping, torturing and slitting the throat of a 12 year old girl for many years..atleast since 1993. I think if someone pulled his coounseling session files they would find that fantasy there. Brooke would have turned 13 this coming up weekend..that's why he needed to act fast. He needed a 12 year old that was within the family..that is the only way this fantasy would work for him.
My dearest DeltaDawn,:blowkiss:
Thank-you so much for your post.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[calidreamin]

Denise has no class whatsoever.

I know SuzieQ! I would hang my head in shame and curl up under a rock if my RSO husband had murdered my sisters child. Of course that would never happen because I would never marry a sex offender and let him loose on my children.:mad::furious:

[legallee]

Just looked at the funeral photos. I can't bring myself to watch the funeral itself. I HATE that SOB, MJ! I wish I could get my hands on him!:furious::furious::furious::furious:

[evelyn24]

I think AR was talking about someone literally peeing in Brooke's mouth. I don' t think it was lingo.
I'm sure AR had this done to her, as she was used as a sex doll by MJ for years..doing whatever popped into his head. Urinating on someone, or in someone's mouth is a very well known fetish.

[emanon7]

They referred to Brooke in the affidavits as THE PROBLEM. I think she knew what was up...or he'd tried something on her and they knew she was going to tell. I'm thinking also he'd tried something with Savannah too, judging by the "c" word reference to her. MJ didn't like her at all. Who knows, maybe Brooke and Savannah even snubbed them or made cracks about the incestuous couple, well, not true incest but you know what I mean. I bet Savannah and Brooke had a good clue of what the deal was between AR and MJ and let them know it. Just my idea anyway.

I think she was killed because MJ's intention was to bind, torture, rape and kill...his perverted self had waited as long as it could to do this. He enjoyed torturing and raping in 1992 but never got over not killing that girl. The regret that he didn't slit her throat stayed with him and festered until it ate a hole in his soul. In his primitive brain, he was safe using a relative....the one time (that we know of) he used a stranger, he was sent to jail. Not so with his relatives....no charges in 1985 or the 7 years before, and absolutely smooth sailing with his step-daughter since 2003. IMO the "Problem" was finding a relative he could do this to. Couldn't use Brooke's sister, she's too old to be tricked by the likes of him; absolutely couldn't kill AR; under no circumstances could he grab a stranger...he wasn't smart enough to pull off a stranger abduction. Had to be a relative...it had to be Brooke. I don't think poor Brooke knew anything to tell about her uncle and cousin...I think she really thought she was going to a party.

[evelyn24]

It seems like Denise did attend the funeral today. She was at the podium when her young daughter spoke.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BT&Date=20080709&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=807090802&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=10

Yes, this was pointed out by a poster here name "bdmama" in the funeral thread when Denise and her youngest daughter "C" were live at the podium speaking.
However, I don't think many paid attention to her post.
We've been moving so fast I think some posts are overlooked.

PS.

Thank you for the link to their pic!!

[Carrington]

I know SuzieQ! I would hang my head in shame and curl up under a rock if my RSO husband had murdered my sisters child. Of course that would never happen because I would never marry a sex offender and let him loose on my children.:mad::furious:

Nothing like giving the finger to the world.
No shame, no sense. Braindead
IMO

[evelyn24]

Nothing like giving the finger to the world.
No shame, no sense. Braindead
IMO

And what is Denise telling her youngest daughter who was very upset today?
How can a young kid process that her dad did something like this?

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BT&Date=20080709&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=807090802&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=11

:(

[DianeB]

I think she was killed because MJ's intention was to bind, torture, rape and kill...his perverted self had waited as long as it could to do this. He enjoyed torturing and raping in 1992 but never got over not killing that girl. The regret that he didn't slit her throat stayed with him and festered until it ate a hole in his soul.It pains me to bring this up, but we don't actually know if this is the case. Clearly there has been no accusation that his "rape kit" was used for something more than rape, but because of his known prior behavior, a murder in his past could well be a possibility under examination now.

Jacques and Gagnon were fairly mobile - especially RG.

How many people go missing every year, never to be found?

[Chica]

I can tell you that in the inmates in the prisons here, use the saying "pi**ed in their mouth" when an inmate engages in a discussion or arguement that the other one feels is badmouthing.
There are many ways that they use that saying depending on the circumstances when it is being said.

Another example in a sentence;
The inmates say that Johnny pi**ed in his mouth because he told the unit Officer that his canteen items were stolen when he was out of the unit.

So the saying is not that they want anyone to pi** in Brooke's mouth, it means that she said something that did not go over well at all.

Very insightful! Thank you so much for taking the time to re-typing your reply - it is much appreciated. I can very easily see that being the scenerio, and using the phrase in that context makes much more sense than I was making of it (taking that awful phrase literally). You have given me a lot to re-think - thank you!:blowkiss:

[Tom'sGirl]

I've only watched a brief vid of snippets of the funeral. I will definitely have to watch the entire thing.
The individual videos are listed here SQ http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2365032&postcount=94

[Carrington]

Denise looks different to me than she did at the MJ hearing.
Darker hair, no glasses and full make-up.
Looks like she just had a makeover.
See her pic in the photo thread at MJ hearing for comparison.
IMO

[dark_shadows]

Very insightful! Thank you so much for taking the time to re-typing your reply - it is much appreciated. I can very easily see that being the scenerio, and using the phrase in that context makes much more sense than I was making of it (taking that awful phrase literally). You have given me a lot to re-think - thank you!:blowkiss:
My very dearest Chica,:blowkiss:
Thank-you so very much my friend.

So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

[SuziQ]

The individual videos are listed here SQ http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2365032&postcount=94

Thank you!

[Tom'sGirl]

Denise looks different to me than she did at the MJ hearing.
Darker hair, no glasses and full make-up.
Looks like she just had a makeover.
See her pic in the photo thread at MJ hearing for comparison.
IMO
She sure did Carrington, way different. In the photo from the Court hearing her hair looked somewhat like a wig to me.

[philamena]

Denise has no class whatsoever.


You got that right. :bang:

[philamena]

I think you're the only one thinking it. I think you've misunderstood Chica.

I get it as Chica is saying AR may have said those things about the p*ssing in her mouth because she thinks Brooke said something that could jeopardize Breckenridge.


Ummmm NO! :tsktsk:
You may find it advantageous to read the entire thread and not only bits and pieces.

[Jaded]

Denise looks different to me than she did at the MJ hearing.
Darker hair, no glasses and full make-up.
Looks like she just had a makeover.
See her pic in the photo thread at MJ hearing for comparison.
IMO

That's what I was thinking - that she has had her hair done. I was also wondering how she is going to explain away daddy's absence. I feel horrible for her little daughter and what she is going to have to go through. Other children can be right down rotten. Seems there are no winners in this situation at present. Very sad.

[Chica]

Chica,
Please tell me that you're not serious? :waitasec:
Brooke was a 12 yr old girl...she wouldn't even think of something so vile.

Philamena - so sorry...Please see the red for what I meant: Something that has been bothering me as of late is what AR referenced in the affidavit about 'pi**sing in her mouth'. Do you think it is because Brooke 'said something' that she meaning ARwanted that to be done in her meaning Brooke'smouth? That has really been bothering me...where on earth would that come from?? by this I meant where would AR come up with that phrase/wish?

So sorry it wasn't clearer...:blowkiss:

[philamena]

I think AR was talking about someone literally peeing in Brooke's mouth. I don' t think it was lingo.
I'm sure AR had this done to her, as she was used as a sex doll by MJ for years..doing whatever popped into his head. Urinating on someone, or in someone's mouth is a very well known fetish.


evelyn24,
Thanks for your comment. I've talked to more than a few people who think the comment was meant literally.
Especially since the comment was made by someone who's a member of a sex ring.
Yes it's a fetish called a 'golden shower."

[HarvestMoon]

That's what I was thinking - that she has had her hair done. I was also wondering how she is going to explain away daddy's absence. I feel horrible for her little daughter and what she is going to have to go through. Other children can be right down rotten. Seems there are no winners in this situation at present. Very sad.

The one saving grace is that the monster Jacques won't be able to do her any harm. I think she must be his daughter. She appeared to be a nice little girl. Poor dear carrying his name.

[Hailiejade77]

did anyone else notice that they actually printing "C"'s real name? And YES Denise looked way different. When I saw that she was crying I got mad. I wish she would have came forth before all of this happened! She HAD signs! :bang:

http://www.necn.com/category/32/12847

[SuziQ]

That's what I was thinking - that she has had her hair done. I was also wondering how she is going to explain away daddy's absence. I feel horrible for her little daughter and what she is going to have to go through. Other children can be right down rotten. Seems there are no winners in this situation at present. Very sad.

And sadly DFS, DCF, or whatever it's called in Vermont hasn't removed the child from Denise's custody.

[HarvestMoon]

did anyone else notice that they actually printing "C"'s real name? And YES Denise looked way different. When I saw that she was crying I got mad. I wish she would have came forth before all of this happened! She HAD signs! :bang:

http://www.necn.com/category/32/12847

What is wrong with printing the child's name? She has done nothing wrong. I am surprised that she spoke at the funeral. I wonder why Brooke's mother and father did not.

[Hailiejade77]

Something else I notice,... who the heck is that guy with Denise and "C"? Was it the drunk bf that she threw out???? Also,.. did anyone notice if AR was there? I highly doubt she would be. IMO

[HarvestMoon]

And sadly DFS, DCF, or whatever it's called in Vermont hasn't removed the child from Denise's custody.

I know. :(

[HarvestMoon]

Something else I notice,... who the heck is that guy with Denise and "C"? Was it the drunk bf that she threw out???? Also,.. did anyone notice if AR was there? I highly doubt she would be. IMO


What guy? Are you referring to the pastor at the service?

[Jaded]

did anyone else notice that they actually printing "C"'s real name? And YES Denise looked way different. When I saw that she was crying I got mad. I wish she would have came forth before all of this happened! She HAD signs! :bang:

http://www.necn.com/category/32/12847

If the signs had been sky written and messages in fluorescent lighting, they couldn't have been clearer AND she KNEW that he was in possession of child porn. Who in their right freakin' mind is going to see images on their husband's computer of that nature and not have a darn hissy fit? I cannot help but place some of the blame on her shoulders for enabling this POS.

[Hailiejade77]

What is wrong with printing the child's name? She has done nothing wrong. I am surprised that she spoke at the funeral. I wonder why Brooke's mother and father did not.


No I didn't mean it in a bad way. I was just under the impression that they wouldn't since she is AR's sister and MJ's daughter.

And yes I agree that she is VERY brave to speak at Brooke's funeral. I don't think I could do that even now at my age.

[Starr58]

And sadly DFS, DCF, or whatever it's called in Vermont hasn't removed the child from Denise's custody.

Not surprised, the danger is no longer in the home. No risk of harm according to DCF... and DCF would "provide services to the family" prior to removal if there was no longer any risk of further abuse

[SuziQ]

Has anyone been able to find out exactly when MJ was released from prison and when him and Denise were married? I wouldn't be shocked to find out there was, as someone else posted, a penpal relationship.

[philamena]

Philamena - so sorry...Please see the red for what I meant: Something that has been bothering me as of late is what AR referenced in the affidavit about 'pi**sing in her mouth'. Do you think it is because Brooke 'said something' that she meaning ARwanted that to be done in her meaning Brooke'smouth? That has really been bothering me...where on earth would that come from?? by this I meant where would AR come up with that phrase/wish?

Ohhh now I get it. :blowkiss:
Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. :blushing:
I'm ashamed to say it could be something that the men instructed AR to do. This whole sex ring thing is horrible on so many levels.
Again, please excuse my speaking with emotions. I should have handled that differently. ;)

[Jaded]

Has anyone been able to find out exactly when MJ was released from prison and when him and Denise were married? I wouldn't be shocked to find out there was, as someone else posted, a penpal relationship.

From what has been written on here, they were married immediately after he was released from prison which IIRC was 1996. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

[SuziQ]

Not surprised, the danger is no longer in the home. No risk of harm according to DCF...

Denise brought that danger into the home around the time Jacques left prison. She makes very poor decisions and is not capable from protecting her children. She marries one brother, then another, then an RSO, see's child porn on the computer, etc. etc.

[Hailiejade77]

What guy? Are you referring to the pastor at the service?



No the guy that is standing beside Denise and "C" in this video. Or is that the pastor???? I am not sure. He has on a suit.
http://www.necn.com/category/32/12847

[Starr58]

Very well done:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/legacy/slideshows/070908funeral/index.html

[Jaded]

No the guy that is standing beside Denise and "C" in this video. Or is that the pastor???? I am not sure. He has on a suit.
http://www.necn.com/category/32/12847

Someone posted earlier it was a pastor. HTH

[SuziQ]

From what has been written on here, they were married immediately after he was released from prison which IIRC was 1996. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

That's what I remember as well. It would be very interesting to find out, let's say, they were married the weekend after he got out.

[Hailiejade77]

Someone posted earlier it was a pastor. HTH

Thank you! I just thought it wasn't him. He must have taken his jacket off between some of the service.

[Starr58]

Denise brought that danger into the home around the time Jacques left prison. She makes very poor decisions and is not capable from protecting her children. She marries one brother, then another, then an RSO, see's child porn on the computer, etc. etc.

I agree.

Although I believe DCF would see it differently and apparently is not concerned about the safety of the child or she would have been removed immediately and reunification services would be offered.

She could very well be in DCF custody and still be placed with her mother while the family recieves services outlined in a DCF case plan/

[Jaded]

That's what I remember as well. It would be very interesting to find out, let's say, they were married the weekend after he got out.

When I decide to fall head over heels for a pedophile, I want someone to take me out back and shoot me. I just don't understand it.

[Chica]

I think you're the only one thinking it. I think you've misunderstood Chica.

I get it as Chica is saying AR may have said those things about the p*ssing in her mouth because she thinks Brooke said something that could jeopardize Breckenridge.

Thank you, Legallee! :blowkiss:

[Hailiejade77]

Very well done:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/legacy/slideshows/070908funeral/index.html

OMG! That made me cry!!!!!:frown: I just can't imagine it.

[philamena]

From what has been written on here, they were married immediately after he was released from prison which IIRC was 1996. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

Let me get this straight....:waitasec:
He gets out of prison after serving time as a sexual offender and this idiot married him immediately? :mad: :banghead:

[Jaded]

Let me get this straight....:waitasec:
He gets out of prison after serving time as a sexual offender and this idiot married him immediately? :mad: :banghead:

Yep.:behindbar

[HarvestMoon]

When I decide to fall head over heels for a pedophile, I want someone to take me out back and shoot me. I just don't understand it.

I know. Sorry, but I wouldn't even befriend a pedo, let alone date or marry one. No way would one be near any child of mine, ever.

[HarvestMoon]

Let me get this straight....:waitasec:
He gets out of prison after serving time as a sexual offender and this idiot married him immediately? :mad: :banghead:

Immediately! Oy Vey.

[DeltaDawn]

If the signs had been sky written and messages in fluorescent lighting, they couldn't have been clearer AND she KNEW that he was in possession of child porn. Who in their right freakin' mind is going to see images on their husband's computer of that nature and not have a darn hissy fit? I cannot help but place some of the blame on her shoulders for enabling this POS.

Jaded, first let me thank you for the blog you posted a link to about the now man who was a boy on the little league baseball team with MJ and his father as coach..Very enlightening.


Secondly, I do agree that Denise had to know he was back to his pedo ways when she found child porn on their home computer and confronted him and he said he didn't know how it got there. Please..that is just like a 5 or 6 year old's behavior when confronted with the evidence..has this women no brain? She knew damn well he was looking, she knew damn well something sexual was going on with her daughter and MAJ from the dry shower, ky and towel wrapped bodies. She chose to ignore that rather then report it..which she should have done..she knew his past! I hope she is arrested as a stupid bystander while her daughter, niece and god knows who else went through hell.

[Jaded]

Jaded, first let me thank you for the blog you posted a link to about the now man who was a boy on the little league baseball team with MJ and his father as coach..Very enlightening.


Secondly, I do agree that Denise had to know he was back to his pedo ways when she found child porn on their home computer and confronted him and he said he didn't know how it got there. Please..that is just like a 5 or 6 year old's behavior when confronted with the evidence..has this women no bain? She knew damn well he was looking, she knew damn well something sexual was going on with her daughter and MJ from the dry shower, ky and towel raped bodies. She chose to ignore that rathere then report it..which she should have done..she knew his past! I hope she is arrested as a stupid bystander while her daughter, neice and god knows who else went through hell.

you're welcome, re: the blog. It was very well written to the very end..."His name". Chilling.

I hold DJ partially responsible because she enabled his perversion. You're right, she was a stupid bystander and instead of doing what any normal, rationale thinking woman would do she turned a blind eye. How desperate is she that she would rather be with a pedophile than alone? I just don't understand the psychology of that. Does she hate herself that much that any man, let alone a dirty perv is better than no man?

[strach304]

My very dearest Chica,:blowkiss:
I will try this again and hope that the server stays up when I hit the reply button.

This is what was said in the email word for word;

"I just want her to suffer and she pi**ed in her mouth and see how she likes it."

My opinion and my opinion only. A small scenario what may have happened.
She attempted to recruit Brooke into Breckenridge. Brooke said no and they argued. Brooke most likely tried to talk her into leaving Breckenridge to help protect her cousin. But the cousin did not see it as that. She saw it as a threat and had to report it to the Breckenridge contact. She was then in turn told that they were not happy with her. They blamed her for attempting to recruit someone that would most likely report them. Her father was threatened so she had to scramble to get back on Brooke's goodside so that Brooke would not turn anyone in. So the plan was devised to silence Brooke.

I can tell you that in the inmates in the prisons here, use the saying "pi**ed in their mouth" when an inmate engages in a discussion or arguement that the other one feels is badmouthing.
There are many ways that they use that saying depending on the circumstances when it is being said.

Another example in a sentence;
The inmates say that Johnny pi**ed in his mouth because he told the unit Officer that his canteen items were stolen when he was out of the unit.

So the saying is not that they want anyone to pi** in Brooke's mouth, it means that she said something that did not go over well at all.



Love and Respect,
dark_shadows


Oh thank you DS :blowkiss: I never thought that part made sense in all the other ways suggested or anything I could come up with. What would we do without you?

[Chica]

[/B][/COLOR]

Ohhh now I get it. :blowkiss:
Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. :blushing:
I'm ashamed to say it could be something that the men instructed AR to do. This whole sex ring thing is horrible on so many levels.
Again, please excuse my speaking with emotions. I should have handled that differently. ;)

No need for apologies - I should have been clearer - I was befuddled when I was typing it, and I was trying not to be tooooo cumbersome in my explanation!:blowkiss:

[becca]

you're welcome, re: the blog. It was very well written to the very end..."His name". Chilling.

I hold DJ partially responsible because she enabled his perversion. You're right, she was a stupid bystander and instead of doing what any normal, rationale thinking woman would do she turned a blind eye. How desperate is she that she would rather be with a pedophile than alone? I just don't understand the psychology of that. Does she hate herself that much that any man, let alone a dirty perv is better than no man?

it has nothing to do with self hate.... its what she has been taught. this didn't just happen over night... it goes back generations as a woman must have a man..
we talked about this on an earlier thread.

[strach304]

Someone earlier said this is his sister. All I have to say is, he is one sick eff. That is all.

I know, it just gets worse :sick:

[dark_shadows]

evelyn24,
Thanks for your comment. I've talked to more than a few people who think the comment was meant literally.
Especially since the comment was made by someone who's a member of a sex ring.
Yes it's a fetish called a 'golden shower."
My dearest Philamena,:blowkiss:
Nice to see you and thank-you for your post.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[strach304]

IMO, if Brooke had info about MJ and AR, or was approached sexually and refused, they would not have waited almost a month to get rid of her. There would have been too much opportunity for Brooke to tell someine. If anything, I think MJ made up a reason that Brooke was a problem to convince AR to go along.

I agree. We need more information. We're left wondering about so many things but mostly why did this child have to die? In the same way that serial rapists usually progress to serial killers I have to wonder if it was just the depravity that took MJ over and those involved with him as accomplices had to go along with helping him.

[dark_shadows]

Oh thank you DS :blowkiss: I never thought that part made sense in all the other ways suggested or anything I could come up with. What would we do without you?
My dearest Strach,:blowkiss:
With all of my heart, thank-you so very much.


So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

[DianeB]

I know. Sorry, but I wouldn't even befriend a pedo, let alone date or marry one. No way would one be near any child of mine, ever.Maybe Denise has just recently begun to realize that her husband is a pedophile and not your average garden-variety perv.

When he started having sex with his 8 year old sister, he was only 11 himself.

The girl he was convicted of raping in 1992 was 18. At the time, Jacques was 26 and Denise was 22.

She should have gotten at least an inkling of his inclinations when she discovered the child porn DVD, but maybe she justified it in her mind as part of her husband's porn fascination.

Why the towel-clad pre-teen, KY and dildo didn't raise a flag is another issue entirely.

[Busylady]

I know this will not be popular but I was glad to see that Denise attended with little C. She did not intrude and sit with the family. The preacher appears to ask if its ok for C to speak before he calls her up. Little C cannot possibly comprehend what has happened, I think it was very very important for her to attend this funeral, she doesnt understand at this point that her mother allowed danger into her house etc. I am sure in little Cs mind she has lost her father, a cousin, and a sister, she doesnt need to feel she lost a mom right now also. I thought it was wonderful that Cassandra stood up and hugged little C after she spoke, this little girl didnt have a dang thing to do with what has happened and I am glad Cassandra realizes thats.

[jep0216]

Did you see the funeral footage? I thought I noticed Cassandra being warmer toward Denise than Denise was towarrd Cassandra, when Denise and her daughter stopped for Courtney to hug Cassandra.

I noticed this too. And first of all...I can't believe she had the audacity to show up. But yes, I noticed she seemed a bit cold towards Cassandra. Denise certainly had no reason to act that way. Afterall, it was HER husband who killed her sister's daughter.

[Hailiejade77]

Regardless if Denise "just realized" that MJ was abusing AR or about the child porn on the computer,..... she knew WHAT he was in jail for and she married him anyway!

[amomandherblog]

OMG! That made me cry!!!!!:frown: I just can't imagine it.

I can't get the Free Press to load. They must have too many people trying to access it. :(

[Hailiejade77]

I noticed this too. And first of all...I can't believe she had the audacity to show up. But yes, I noticed she seemed a bit cold towards Cassandra. Denise certainly had no reason to act that way. Afterall, it was HER husband who killed her sister's daughter.

I totally agree!

[DianeB]

Oh, absolutely. Even taking away the pedophilia aspect, who would marry someone who just got out of prison for a brutal rape?

One mention of "rape kit" and she should have been running in the other direction.

Do you think perhaps she was a little stand-offish at the funeral because she wasn't sure how to act? Talk about your awkward situations.

[gigi2009]

I know this will not be popular but I was glad to see that Denise attended with little C. She did not intrude and sit with the family. The preacher appears to ask if its ok for C to speak before he calls her up. Little C cannot possibly comprehend what has happened, I think it was very very important for her to attend this funeral, she doesnt understand at this point that her mother allowed danger into her house etc. I am sure in little Cs mind she has lost her father, a cousin, and a sister, she doesnt need to feel she lost a mom right now also. I thought it was wonderful that Cassandra stood up and hugged little C after she spoke, this little girl didnt have a dang thing to do with what has happened and I am glad Cassandra realizes thats.



Absolutely beautifully said. I especially agree about Cassandra embracing that little girl. I believe for someone so young and purely innocent, she is probably suffering immensely. I just pray parents will be careful speaking around their children because these kids will go to school and we know how cruel kids can be. I was hanging in pretty well till the little girl got up to speak and then I lost it. Then I got angry all over again. It's just all too much.

[gigi2009]

I noticed this too. And first of all...I can't believe she had the audacity to show up. But yes, I noticed she seemed a bit cold towards Cassandra. Denise certainly had no reason to act that way. Afterall, it was HER husband who killed her sister's daughter.

Was this while Cassandra was hugging the little girl? It came across to me like she was just trying to give them some space and while she was looking away, blinking back tears but that could also be wishful thinking.

[Littledeer]

:clap::clap::clap: I agree.

I know this will not be popular but I was glad to see that Denise attended with little C. She did not intrude and sit with the family. The preacher appears to ask if its ok for C to speak before he calls her up. Little C cannot possibly comprehend what has happened, I think it was very very important for her to attend this funeral, she doesnt understand at this point that her mother allowed danger into her house etc. I am sure in little Cs mind she has lost her father, a cousin, and a sister, she doesnt need to feel she lost a mom right now also. I thought it was wonderful that Cassandra stood up and hugged little C after she spoke, this little girl didnt have a dang thing to do with what has happened and I am glad Cassandra realizes thats.

[RR0004]

When I decide to fall head over heels for a pedophile, I want someone to take me out back and shoot me. I just don't understand it.
ITA...something is just not right with DJ.

[strach304]

I think she was killed because MJ's intention was to bind, torture, rape and kill...his perverted self had waited as long as it could to do this. He enjoyed torturing and raping in 1992 but never got over not killing that girl. The regret that he didn't slit her throat stayed with him and festered until it ate a hole in his soul. In his primitive brain, he was safe using a relative....the one time (that we know of) he used a stranger, he was sent to jail. Not so with his relatives....no charges in 1985 or the 7 years before, and absolutely smooth sailing with his step-daughter since 2003. IMO the "Problem" was finding a relative he could do this to. Couldn't use Brooke's sister, she's too old to be tricked by the likes of him; absolutely couldn't kill AR; under no circumstances could he grab a stranger...he wasn't smart enough to pull off a stranger abduction. Had to be a relative...it had to be Brooke. I don't think poor Brooke knew anything to tell about her uncle and cousin...I think she really thought she was going to a party.

Very, very valid points. Accounts for almost everything. :)

[jep0216]

Was this while Cassandra was hugging the little girl? It came across to me like she was just trying to give them some space and while she was looking away, blinking back tears but that could also be wishful thinking.

Yes that is where we are talking about. I think it is wishful thinking! At least to me, she seemed very cold. Who knows what they have said to each other behind closed doors (not to say Cassandra is blameless because I don't believe that at all) but I would certainly have had a few choice words to say to Denise if I was Cassandra. And maybe that is why Denise seemed so cold. Who knows!