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christine2448
07-10-2008, 10:56 AM
Please continue GENERAL discussions here. Look around BROOKE'S FORUM (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=163)there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.

I advise everyone to read the RULES of WS, Long (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66869)and Short Version (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66872)and also to read THIS STICKY (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67094) before participating. TIA.


Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.

Welcome all newbies!!!!!!!!!!!! :blowkiss: I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 10:58 AM
Thanks for the new thread

gigi2009
07-10-2008, 10:59 AM
Then why bother calling KG to dump an empty safe? I just don't believe that safe was empty. I really think KG hid it or gave it to his SRO nephew.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:02 AM
Then why bother calling KG to dump an empty safe? I just don't believe that safe was empty. I really think KG hid it or gave it to his SRO nephew.

I don't think it was empty either and I think there was alot more incriminating evidence besides a laptop and some pictures.

DianeB
07-10-2008, 11:03 AM
TY.

Bringing this over from the previous thread, Lola said:

It's pretty obvious from messages on some of the articles and veiled references in the stories themselves that feelings are running very high in the community. Can't blame them.

They're not even all that veiled. During the CBS interview, Cassandra made reference to all of the stories they'd been hearing.

I'll bet she was getting an earful.

christine2448
07-10-2008, 11:05 AM
Please, remind me who Cassandra is again.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:06 AM
TY.

Bringing this over from the previous thread, Lola said:



They're not even all that veiled. During the CBS interview, Cassandra made reference to all of the stories they'd been hearing.

I'll bet she was getting an earful.

ITA. Sounds to me like she is catching hell over it from the interview I saw where she said that she always knew where her kids were and all that.

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 11:06 AM
Brooke was going to be visiting her exstepfather according to her father and was looking forward to that

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:06 AM
Please, remind me who Cassandra is again.

The lady who gave birth to Brooke

Busylady
07-10-2008, 11:06 AM
So it would throw off LE to look for the porn in Texas. It makes no sense to me that he went to Alabama, but left the porn in Texas.

Then why bother calling KG to dump an empty safe? I just don't believe that safe was empty. I really think KG hid it or gave it to his SRO nephew.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:07 AM
Brooke was going to be visiting her exstepfather according to her father and was looking forward to that

I don't get it...why would she visit her x stepfather?

DianeB
07-10-2008, 11:12 AM
Then why bother calling KG to dump an empty safe? I just don't believe that safe was empty. I really think KG hid it or gave it to his SRO nephew.Maybe he was warning KG to get rid of his own stash.

The only way I can reconcile the safe not being found between the Monday when it was supposedly dumped and the following day when it was being searched for, is if someone saw it in the dumpster and snagged it. It's not as if the feds couldn't track it to a landfill, if it had been picked up in that 24 hr period.

Maybe the feds have interviewed everyone at the apt complex at which it was supposedly thrown out to see if anyone is into dumpster diving.

Or maybe it was recovered but the feds aren't talking.

Or maybe it was never in a dumpster to begin with.

Too many questions!

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:14 AM
of course he could have lied and said he threw it in the dumpster and he got rid of it somewhere else.

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 11:15 AM
So it would throw off LE to look for the porn in Texas. It makes no sense to me that he went to Alabama, but left the porn in Texas.

Yes, Busylady! He would not have parted with it.
And LE did find the porn in the Alabama house. I hope to goodness that LE found identifying evidence with Gagnon and Jacques in the same picture! I suppose they have Gagnon's 5 year collection as well!
I just cannot help but feel that the registered RSO relative of Kevin Grosenheider (landlord of Gagnon) is involved in this also.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:17 AM
didn't KG have young daughters as well?

gigi2009
07-10-2008, 11:17 AM
So it would throw off LE to look for the porn in Texas. It makes no sense to me that he went to Alabama, but left the porn in Texas.


Right I get what you're saying. I was thinking that he left the porn in Texas, went to Alabama. (thinking they wouldn't connect Texas but would know he still owned a home in Alabama and perhaps had stuff in storage such as the computers.) When he was in Alabama everything really started going nuts so he tried to get rid of whatever he had on the computers. I saw an article in which they said they used some high end software to retrieve info. Anyway, by then it was too late to go back to Texas so he had to call KG to get rid of the safe. That's kind of how I'm trying to put it together cause these guys didn't seem like they were organized at this point--it seemed like they were just panicking and trying to cover up the misteps.

Carrington
07-10-2008, 11:18 AM
I wonder who made the decision to have little C read, with Denise in the spotlight?
Are they showing family unity to the public, even if Denise and AR sat far
away?
I wonder if Denise asked Cassandra? We know the idea didn't come from C.
I also wonder if juvie 2 was present.....I would like to know his age. Definitely to old to fall for the Breckenridge scam if he has a drivers license.
IMO

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 11:19 AM
Brooke was going to be visiting her exstepfather according to her father and was looking forward to that

So she was going to visit the POS Gagon (ex Step father) the guy who logged into her myspace for MJ and called to have someone get rid of his safe of porn for him......oh I bet she was looking forward to that visit......

Imagine the things she would have had to go throw while visting him?!?!?! AR already admitted to having sexual encounters with him & MJ......you can't tell me that wasn't his plane for Brooke while she was there!!!

Maybe that why MJ did what he did, he wanted Brooke for himself and at least to get her be the first to be with her before Gagon????

I think these two men devoloped this sick litte sex ring for themselves and used to manipulate and get what they wanted from AR & then Brooke and I wonder if little C was ever abused?

LI_Mom
07-10-2008, 11:19 AM
From previous thread:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67144&page=3

dark_shadows:


This is what was said in the email word for word;

"I just want her to suffer and she pi**ed in her mouth and see how she likes it."

My opinion and my opinion only. A small scenario what may have happened.
She attempted to recruit Brooke into Breckenridge. Brooke said no and they argued. Brooke most likely tried to talk her into leaving Breckenridge to help protect her cousin. But the cousin did not see it as that. She saw it as a threat and had to report it to the Breckenridge contact. She was then in turn told that they were not happy with her. They blamed her for attempting to recruit someone that would most likely report them. Her father was threatened so she had to scramble to get back on Brooke's goodside so that Brooke would not turn anyone in. So the plan was devised to silence Brooke.

I can tell you that in the inmates in the prisons here, use the saying "pi**ed in their mouth" when an inmate engages in a discussion or arguement that the other one feels is badmouthing.
There are many ways that they use that saying depending on the circumstances when it is being said.

Another example in a sentence;
The inmates say that Johnny pi**ed in his mouth because he told the unit Officer that his canteen items were stolen when he was out of the unit.

So the saying is not that they want anyone to pi** in Brooke's mouth, it means that she said something that did not go over well at all.

-----

This theory doesn't seem likely to me.

If MJ had an inkling that Brooke would tell the Breckenridge secret there's NO WAY they would take over a month planning & leaving this ridiculous paper/computer/phone trail.

More likely, he would have snatched her right away & disposed of her body BEFORE she had a chance to tell someone else what she heard.

From the beginning they have certain dates that they have to consider (if we don't do it ____, then we have to wait until___)... they were in no real rush & sounded very comfortable taking their time.

No... I don't believe Brooke had any idea that anything was going on EXCEPT some party.

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 11:19 AM
I don't either, when she was still missing her father was asked if things were ok with Brooke. he said he had recently done away with Brooke's myspace because of things he didn't like that she was doing?And that she was going to be visiting her ex-stepfather in Texas. And that she was looking forward it that.

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 11:21 AM
didn't KG have young daughters as well?

Not that I know of. This KG is 57 years old and supposedly lived with his fiance' and her 17 year old daughter.
It is possible that he does have daughters or sons not living with him.

DianeB
07-10-2008, 11:21 AM
The pressure on Grosenheider must be intense.

It's not as if the FBI is going to just give up and go away.

Did anyone read the interview he gave to the AP? He says he never told the investigators that he assumed the safe contained child porn, and that the comment in the affidavit had been made up by the FBI.

Grosenheider, in his late 50s, is quoted in the affidavit as saying he didn't know what was in the safe "but assumed it was child pornography."

That's not how Grosenheider remembered the conversation Thursday.

"They asked me what was in safe; (I said) 'I don't know. I had never seen the safe open,'" he told the AP. "I assumed it was something he didn't want (discovered)."

When asked about the child pornography reference, Grosenheider said, "That's the FBI."


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jHjvw1NOFGPL0mQ-JPqYfuNZF1LgD91N965O3

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 11:22 AM
The lady who gave birth to Brooke


Does any one else think it would be a good idea to complie a family tree like thread of who's who etc to help every keep things clear, I know it's hard to keep straight & keep up when the threads move this fast???

I don't know a lot but if someone wants to help me & PM I have time to put something together......

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:23 AM
Not that I know of. This KG is 57 years old and supposedly lived with his fiance' and her 17 year old daughter.
It is possible that he does have daughters or sons not living with him.

OH Okay...thanks for clearing that up

christine2448
07-10-2008, 11:24 AM
The lady who gave birth to Brooke

Oh hell, then who is Denise??? That is mom of AR? :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:24 AM
Does any one else think it would be a good idea to complie a family tree like thread of who's who etc to help every keep things clear, I know it's hard to keep straight & keep up when the threads move this fast???

I don't know a lot but if someone wants to help me & PM I have time to put something together......

either that or a list of abreviations and a who's who.

lemme clarify...so nobody jumps on me *LOL*

example

Brooke Bennett (victim) - BB
that type thing

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:25 AM
Oh hell, then who is Denise??? That is mom of AR? :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

ayup!:crazy:

christine2448
07-10-2008, 11:25 AM
Does any one else think it would be a good idea to complie a family tree like thread of who's who etc to help every keep things clear, I know it's hard to keep straight & keep up when the threads move this fast???

I don't know a lot but if someone wants to help me & PM I have time to put something together......

I think it would be great, there are already 2 threads started about families in the forum...not sure if these already explain?

The Paternal Side Of Brooke's Family (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66874)
SeriouslySearching

The Maternal Side Of Brooke's Family (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66873)
SeriouslySearching

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 11:27 AM
From previous thread:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67144&page=3

dark_shadows:

From the beginning they have certain dates that they have to consider (if we don't do it ____, then we have to wait until___)... they were in no real rush & sounded very comfortable taking their time.

No... I don't believe Brooke had any idea that anything was going on EXCEPT some party.

Do you think that was maybe because of Denises work schedule or have somethign to do with when little C would be home???? There was a reason why if we dont do it on such and such date we have to wait until this date......I wonder what that reason was?

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:27 AM
J1 or AR as everyone I think is calling her was at the funeral?

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 11:29 AM
LI MOM, I believe that the words 'P*** in her mouth' is meant literally because I firmly believe that Jacques, Gagnon, and even Grosenheider was involved in manufacturing, swapping, and selling child porn.
A 14 year old, IMO, would not be using prison slang. She was speaking literally, IMO.

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 11:29 AM
I think it would be great, there are already 2 threads started about families in the forum...not sure if these already explain?

The Paternal Side Of Brooke's Family (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66874)
SeriouslySearching

The Maternal Side Of Brooke's Family (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66873)
SeriouslySearching

For me in my mind I was thinking one thread kind of called the "those involved" and then from there the who's who's etc. But if we already have two threads started then that could be redundent....I just know for me it is easiest to look in one spot and see who is who.

christine2448
07-10-2008, 11:30 AM
For me in my mind I was thinking one thread kind of called the "those involved" and then from there the who's who's etc. But if we already have two threads started then that could be redundent....I just know for me it is easiest to look in one spot and see who is who.

Nope a WHO's WHO (those involved) sticky would be perfect...IMO, FWIW......any volunteers??? Once you get the post ready and up I can sticky it for y'all.

gigi2009
07-10-2008, 11:30 AM
I know someone posted this somewhere before-- but here is a "tree"

http://http://www.jurorthirteen.com/GeneralCategories/UpcomingTrials/BrookeBennettMurder/tabid/548/Default.aspx


Just scroll down and you'll see the tree.

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 11:30 AM
The pressure on Grosenheider must be intense.

It's not as if the FBI is going to just give up and go away.

Did anyone read the interview he gave to the AP? He says he never told the investigators that he assumed the safe contained child porn, and that the comment in the affidavit had been made up by the FBI.

Grosenheider, in his late 50s, is quoted in the affidavit as saying he didn't know what was in the safe "but assumed it was child pornography."

That's not how Grosenheider remembered the conversation Thursday.

"They asked me what was in safe; (I said) 'I don't know. I had never seen the safe open,'" he told the AP. "I assumed it was something he didn't want (discovered)."

When asked about the child pornography reference, Grosenheider said, "That's the FBI."


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jHjvw1NOFGPL0mQ-JPqYfuNZF1LgD91N965O3


Yep, and he probably said that after just making a 'deal' with the FBI to be a witness at trial!

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 11:32 AM
I think Brooke's name should remain whole RIP Brooke

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:33 AM
Do you think that was maybe because of Denises work schedule or have somethign to do with when little C would be home???? There was a reason why if we dont do it on such and such date we have to wait until this date......I wonder what that reason was?

Not trying to be gross or sound sick but the first thing that popped in my head was the girls' menstral cycle. Because it says "before Jun 7th but if not then after the 16th for obvious reasons that you allready know about"

again just a thought.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:33 AM
I think Brooke's name should remain whole RIP Brooke

agreed. I was just trying to give an example and that's all I could think of right off the top of my head

gigi2009
07-10-2008, 11:34 AM
It appears for some reason that link won't work--let try something else.

Leve
07-10-2008, 11:34 AM
Her is a thought on Denise and Casandra.

We heard about divorce rumors and that Denise and AR were going to go to counciling. Maybe Denise went to Casandra with her fears of MJ messing with AR. Maybe they encouraged Brooke to hang out with AR because maybe AR would tell Brooke before she would tell an adult. If it was me I'd take my babies and run, but maybe Casandra wanted ammo for the divorce proceedings.

Sometimes I try to take a charitable view of people. :blowkiss:

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 11:35 AM
Be back later...

LI_Mom
07-10-2008, 11:38 AM
Do you think that was maybe because of Denises work schedule or have somethign to do with when little C would be home???? There was a reason why if we dont do it on such and such date we have to wait until this date......I wonder what that reason was?

Yes, I do think it was a work scheduling thing... Denise & MJ both worked.

We haven't heard a word about Denise or C's schedule the night of the sleepover or the next day. Were they home or not? Did they leave early the next morning for work/day camp?? Would MJ bring Brooke back to the house IF C was home? We just don't know.

SeriouslySearching
07-10-2008, 11:40 AM
I think it would be great, there are already 2 threads started about families in the forum...not sure if these already explain?

The Paternal Side Of Brooke's Family (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66874)
SeriouslySearching

The Maternal Side Of Brooke's Family (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66873)
SeriouslySearchingI put those up initally to get people started in spreading out the "family dynamics". Looks like no one has added to them much. I did two separate threads because of the obvious conflict between the parents in this case.

I wish people would take advantage of the threads listed! Start adding links everyone! (I think maybe newbies don't realize we want them to add to threads or start new ones.)

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 11:40 AM
have to cut grass and wack weeds.be back later.

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 11:42 AM
either that or a list of abreviations and a who's who.

lemme clarify...so nobody jumps on me *LOL*

example

Brooke Bennett (victim) - BB
that type thing

Exactly what I was thinking...ok I am starting a little sheet/list...anyone want to PM me with info they like to see on it and I will add and try to get it together and get it posted.

DianeB
07-10-2008, 11:42 AM
Gigi, this is the link to the .jpg of the family tree posted on the jurorthirteen site:

http://www.jurorthirteen.com/Portals/0/Brooke%20Bennett/familymap-003.jpg

It's incomplete - probably created from early news stories - but it's a start. It's missing people like Courtney Jacques (AR's sister), Steven Andress (Brooke's half-brother), her dad's other sons, and the grandparents.

Not taking anything away from the person who took the time to create it, but because they put Brooke in the middle to show the interrelationships, I find it a little confusing.

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 11:43 AM
Not trying to be gross or sound sick but the first thing that popped in my head was the girls' menstral cycle. Because it says "before Jun 7th but if not then after the 16th for obvious reasons that you allready know about"

again just a thought.

Oh yeah, very good possibility

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 11:44 AM
I am looking forward to the July 17th court dates for Jacques and Gagnon. I wonder if Denise will be there?

SeriouslySearching
07-10-2008, 11:44 AM
I think Brooke's name should remain whole RIP BrookeWelcome to WS, Elley Mae! I guess I am confused. Why wouldn't her name remain whole? :confused:

LI_Mom
07-10-2008, 11:45 AM
Her is a thought on Denise and Casandra.

We heard about divorce rumors and that Denise and AR were going to go to counciling. Maybe Denise went to Casandra with her fears of MJ messing with AR. Maybe they encouraged Brooke to hang out with AR because maybe AR would tell Brooke before she would tell an adult. If it was me I'd take my babies and run, but maybe Casandra wanted ammo for the divorce proceedings.

Sometimes I try to take a charitable view of people. :blowkiss:

This scenario makes more sense if the guy's not already a convicted SO. It can't be very hard to win a case against a creep like that.

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 11:45 AM
Nope a WHO's WHO (those involved) sticky would be perfect...IMO, FWIW......any volunteers??? Once you get the post ready and up I can sticky it for y'all.


I will work on this right now and give to you to review and sticky once we get all the info

SeriouslySearching
07-10-2008, 11:45 AM
I am looking forward to the July 17th court dates for Jacques and Gagnon. I wonder if Denise will be there?If I was a betting woman...which I am...I would say the odds are she will definitely be there. However, we don't know her reasons for being there. Is she being supportive or there because she is truly enraged?

close_enough
07-10-2008, 11:46 AM
so, no new news?....i guess we'll learn more on July 17th....isn't that the next court date for Ray Gagnon & M Jacques?

(oops, i see the 17th is mentioned in the above quote)

eta

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 11:47 AM
I put those up initally to get people started in spreading out the "family dynamics". Looks like no one has added to them much. I did two separate threads because of the obvious conflict between the parents in this case.

I wish people would take advantage of the threads listed! Start adding links everyone! (I think maybe newbies don't realize we want them to add to threads or start new ones.)

I think you did a great job there, I just know for me I have been confused with AR is or isn't Juv 1 and who is Juv 2 & is AR related to MJ biologiclly etc.

Leve
07-10-2008, 11:49 AM
This scenario makes more sense if the guy's not already a convicted SO. It can't be very hard to win a case against a creep like that.


True except AR was denying it.

gigi2009
07-10-2008, 11:49 AM
Thanks Diane B--that's what I was trying to copy.
http://http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o469/gigi2009_photo/familymap-003.jpg

Okay--I have the image saved to photobucket. What would I use to be able to put the image here?

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 11:49 AM
If I was a betting woman...which I am...I would say the odds are she will definitely be there. However, we don't know her reasons for being there. Is she being supportive or there because she is truly enraged?

YOu right but, me being a betting woman also my guess isn't enraged at all my guess is she is there making sure she knows everything as to protect herself so to speak...meaning I beleive she knew his past adn what was going on and chose to turn a blind eye to it all now she getting a bit nervous

I honestly wouldn't be suprised to see a huge can of worms get opened up where she and others on the family might be more involved then we have heard......dark family secerets...maybe

SeriouslySearching
07-10-2008, 11:50 AM
AR is NOT related to MJ biologically.

Actually, Busylady has already gotten the specifics on everyone and their relationships. Maybe we could ask her to post those on the family threads to make it easier for people to get the whole picture. :) She has spent hours researching the families.

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 11:50 AM
Gigi, this is the link to the .jpg of the family tree posted on the jurorthirteen site:

http://www.jurorthirteen.com/Portals/0/Brooke%20Bennett/familymap-003.jpg

It's incomplete - probably created from early news stories - but it's a start. It's missing people like Courtney Jacques (AR's sister), Steven Andress (Brooke's half-brother), her dad's other sons, and the grandparents.

Not taking anything away from the person who took the time to create it, but because they put Brooke in the middle to show the interrelationships, I find it a little confusing.

It took me forever to get these people straight in my mind! This is really a very dysfunctional family.
So, with Courtney being mentioned only yesterday, she is Denise and Jacques daughter? That poor child. I do hope that she is not left in her mothers household. She has suffered enough, and I do not think Denise is a fit person to be a mother.

LI_Mom
07-10-2008, 11:51 AM
If I was a betting woman...which I am...I would say the odds are she will definitely be there. However, we don't know her reasons for being there. Is she being supportive or there because she is truly enraged?

Or somewhere in between those 2 emotions..... like enormous guilt.


Now that the funeral is over & we're getting closer to autopsy results... it's possible Denise herself might be charged for her role in all this.

emanon7
07-10-2008, 11:51 AM
So it would throw off LE to look for the porn in Texas. It makes no sense to me that he went to Alabama, but left the porn in Texas.
He may have left copies in SA and taken flash drives to Alabama where he copied the contents onto those 2 computers in his house. That way he would have a duplicate of everything. Then, if push came to shove, he could afford to ditch one set.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 11:51 AM
If I was a betting woman...which I am...I would say the odds are she will definitely be there. However, we don't know her reasons for being there. Is she being supportive or there because she is truly enraged?

Or scared? MJ may have threatened her... either said IF he ever gets out (I know we would like to think that's impossible, but he did it before), she'll be sorry, or he will make contact with someone from on the inside to take care of her, if she doesn't support him. We know this guy doesn't mind making death threats.

Furthermore, if this case involves a much larger ring, then there may well be bigger players, who would also be interested in having DJ keep quiet about lots of things she may have seen over the years. Ditto AR.

JMO, what do you think?

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 11:52 AM
If I was a betting woman...which I am...I would say the odds are she will definitely be there. However, we don't know her reasons for being there. Is she being supportive or there because she is truly enraged?

I do not think anyone but Denise can answer that!

DianeB
07-10-2008, 11:53 AM
Yes, Courtney is the daughter of Denise and Michael Jacques.

Has Savanna's dad appeared in any of the press stories? Somebody Andress?

VTNance
07-10-2008, 11:55 AM
Yes, Courtney is the daughter of Denise and Michael Jacques.

Has Savanna's dad appeared in any of the press stories? Somebody Andress?

I don't think so, nor has ARs bio dad, who lives in the area.

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 11:56 AM
AR is NOT related to MJ biologically.

Actually, Busylady has already gotten the specifics on everyone and their relationships. Maybe we could ask her to post those on the family threads to make it easier for people to get the whole picture. :) She has spent hours researching the families.


Hey that's a great idea, I don't want to reinvent the wheel if the work has already been done. Maybe I will PM her and see....

LI_Mom
07-10-2008, 11:57 AM
True except AR was denying it.

Then you divorce/leave the creep FIRST & then you worry about getting possible victims to open up.

What I'm saying is that if you're worried about a custody battle, you bring up his conviction record..... you wouldn't need a 12 year old child to help make a case for you.

Lola
07-10-2008, 11:57 AM
I'd also be interested to see dates. Dates of Birth, Dates of Marriage and Divorce, if possible. TIA

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 12:00 PM
Or somewhere in between those 2 emotions..... like enormous guilt.


Now that the funeral is over & we're getting closer to autopsy results... it's possible Denise herself might be charged for her role in all this.


You know, LI Mom, I just feel that Denise just cannot come up with a good enough reason to have ignored the obvious signs where AR was concerned. She witnessed AR in only the towel. She SAW that there was child porn on the computer (Jacques said he did not know how it got there), found the KY jelly, poronographic DVD, and the device that AR said she was keeping for a friend. SHE DID NOTHING! Had she done what she should have done, maybe Jacques would have been in jail before Brooke was murdered.

Denise has some responsibility in having ignored obvious signs and that resulted in this POS having time to plan and murder Brooke.

Leve
07-10-2008, 12:01 PM
Then you divorce/leave the creep FIRST & then you worry about getting possible victims to open up.

What I'm saying is that if you're worried about a custody battle, you bring up his conviction record..... you wouldn't need a 12 year old child to help make a case for you.

LOL! You are more charitable than me. I only said I try to be charitable sometimes.

I wasn't thinking custody, I was thinking the big house, the land ect ect. that Denise might want to keep. I don't have it in me to believe Denise was actually attempting to protect her children.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 12:02 PM
Then you divorce/leave the creep FIRST & then you worry about getting possible victims to open up.

What I'm saying is that if you're worried about a custody battle, you bring up his conviction record..... you wouldn't need a 12 year old child to help make a case for you.


But Cassandra (Brooke's mom) was married to RG, who didn't have prior conviction (I think!). If she brought up the prior conviction MJ, it wouldn't have been in her favor....SHE was the one letting Brooke spend time over there!

I hope the whole "keep the family dynamics to ourselves," wall of silence/solidarity thing doesn't continue on as the investigation unfolds....

Sure wonder what Denise was doing all day long on the 25th......

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 12:02 PM
AR is NOT related to MJ biologically.

Actually, Busylady has already gotten the specifics on everyone and their relationships. Maybe we could ask her to post those on the family threads to make it easier for people to get the whole picture. :) She has spent hours researching the families.


:clap: - Busylady!!!!

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 12:04 PM
The lady who gave birth to Brooke

I like how you put that! Because IMO she isn't a mother.

DeltaDawn
07-10-2008, 12:09 PM
I find it interesting that State Troopers were escorting Denise and C to the burial.

I would say that Denise is under protective custody because this goes much wider then we think, and they fear for her life and her daughter's. I doubt that AR was at the funeral, I think that the word daughters, in the news article was wrong.

I also think that AR is in protective custody as she will be a key witness in these trials.

I wish if someone is local and knows someone that went to the funeral if they could verify that statement about Denise and both daughters being there. Surely someone knows someone from the community who went to the funeral.

LI_Mom
07-10-2008, 12:10 PM
You know, LI Mom, I just feel that Denise just cannot come up with a good enough reason to have ignored the obvious signs where AR was concerned. She witnessed AR in only the towel. She SAW that there was child porn on the computer (Jacques said he did not know how it got there), found the KY jelly, poronographic DVD, and the device that AR said she was keeping for a friend. SHE DID NOTHING! Had she done what she should have done, maybe Jacques would have been in jail before Brooke was murdered.

Denise has some responsibility in having ignored obvious signs and that resulted in this POS having time to plan and murder Brooke.

That's exactly why I feel she's got to be feeling guilt... unless she's a psychopath & has NO feelings anyway.

It's bad enough that she didn't protect her own daughters... now she's indirectly responsible for Brooke's death & the destruction of how many families?

I really hope LE makes an example of this mother so other mothers KNOW that they'll be held responsible.

LI_Mom
07-10-2008, 12:13 PM
I find it interesting that State Troopers were escorting Denise and C to the burial.

I would say that Denise is under protective custody because this goes much wider then we think, and they fear for her life and her daughter's. I doubt that AR was at the funeral, I think that the word daughters, in the news article was wrong.

I wish if someone is local and knows someone that went to the funeral if they could verify that statement about Denise and both daughters being there. Surely someone knows someone from the community who went to the funerale

It's possible Denise is already under house arrest & can only leave under very strict circumstances.

It would be a shame if someone killed her BEFORE LE pried the whole sordid story from her.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 12:13 PM
You know, LI Mom, I just feel that Denise just cannot come up with a good enough reason to have ignored the obvious signs where AR was concerned. She witnessed AR in only the towel. She SAW that there was child porn on the computer (Jacques said he did not know how it got there), found the KY jelly, poronographic DVD, and the device that AR said she was keeping for a friend. SHE DID NOTHING! Had she done what she should have done, maybe Jacques would have been in jail before Brooke was murdered.

Denise has some responsibility in having ignored obvious signs and that resulted in this POS having time to plan and murder Brooke.

EXACTLY!!!! Couldn't have said it better myself!

believe09
07-10-2008, 12:17 PM
I realize that Denise and MJ's youngest child has been ID'd in the media as well as Brooke's half brother-someday one or both of them may google themselves and these threads will come up. I know that the TOS as set forth by Adnoid stated leaving them out of it until their names were out in the mainstream media, but I wish oh wish we did not have to take that step simply because we can....

They are so exceptionally innocent, and I am actually concerned that Denise might, (and I mean might) be using the youngest as an example that they have nothing to hide-or that their lives are business as usual or for some other agenda...I mean who has a child that young speak at a funeral that is as high profile as this one??

JMHO.

LI_Mom
07-10-2008, 12:23 PM
Not to take up for Denise, but how is she directly responsible for Brooke's death? I don't think she knew anything about what was planned that day. I think she is a foolish stupid women, but I don't believe she was an accomplice to Brooke's murder.

She certainly should feel guilt for being a lousy mother and marrying a sex offender when she had a young daughter AR. She should feel guilt for all the signs she missed. But I don't think she had a direct hand in what was taking place.

I do think Denise is the lowest of the low..but I don't think she had any knowledge of what was going on that day. Guilt by association and stupidity.

You misread my post... I said she's indirectly responsible.

Carrington
07-10-2008, 12:25 PM
Not to take up for Denise, but how is she directly responsible for Brooke's death? I don't think she knew anything about what was planned that day. I think she is a foolish stupid women, but I don't believe she was an accomplice to Brooke's murder.

She certainly should feel guilt for being a lousy mother and marrying a sex offender when she had a young daughter AR. She should feel guilt for all the signs she missed. But I don't think she had a direct hand in what was taking place.

I do think Denise is the lowest of the low..but I don't think she had any knowledge of what was going on that day. Guilt by association and stupidity.

Denise could have prevented Brooke's murder, so could have Cassandra.
IMO

VTNance
07-10-2008, 12:29 PM
When a witness is in "protective custody" what does that really mean? That they are confined to a certain location? Assigned bodyguards? I don't really know what it entails? TIA for clearing this up for me!

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 12:35 PM
Denise could have prevented Brooke's murder, so could have Cassandra.
IMO

Yes, this is what I feel also. She (Denise) certainly did not act on what she saw with her own eyes! Had she done the right thing THEN, maybe Brooke would not have been murdered.

Cassandra could have kept Brooke out of a convicted sex offenders house. The cousins could have visited somewhere else. It should have been explained to those children why MJ was not to be around them.

I have no apologies for feeling this way. The sisters both put themselves ahead of the well being and safety of their children.

Lola
07-10-2008, 12:37 PM
According to this article posted by emanon7

Investigation leads to Cullman (http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_185230015.html)

Gagnon lived in Cullman from 1998 - 2007. They also say that he and Cassandra seperated about 4 years ago.

SailorMoon
07-10-2008, 12:38 PM
Good, good, we can go with that. I just don't get how these 2 women were so clueless. And will someone please explain to me why AR is still living with Denise?? (I'm assuming so because of the children with her at the funeral)

Why Denise would be allowed around of small children now?? Knowing what we know?? What the heck is wrong with CPS there???

Her is a thought on Denise and Casandra.

We heard about divorce rumors and that Denise and AR were going to go to counciling. Maybe Denise went to Casandra with her fears of MJ messing with AR. Maybe they encouraged Brooke to hang out with AR because maybe AR would tell Brooke before she would tell an adult. If it was me I'd take my babies and run, but maybe Casandra wanted ammo for the divorce proceedings.

Sometimes I try to take a charitable view of people. :blowkiss:

LaLaw2000
07-10-2008, 12:39 PM
According to this article posted by emanon7

Investigation leads to Cullman (http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_185230015.html)

Gagnon lived in Cullman from 1998 - 2007. They also say that he and Cassandra seperated about 4 years ago.

There is also another article somewhere (trying to find it) stating that Gagnon and Cassandra were married in Alabama. I would really like to know how they met.

DeltaDawn
07-10-2008, 12:43 PM
You misread my post... I said she's indirectly responsible.


Please forgive me..I see that you are right LI Mom..my mistake.

:blowkiss:

I will delete that post.

believe09
07-10-2008, 12:45 PM
Thank you for the link posted above. I found this interesting;
snip
James Bennett, Brooke’s father, said Gagnon had been married to Brooke’s mother, Cassandra Gagnon, whose sister is married to Jacques. Bennett said they separated about four years ago and may have divorced.
snip
What 6 years was Brooke living under this guy's roof? I mean, they appear to have separated when Brooke was 8...when did she arrive in VT?

Carrington
07-10-2008, 12:47 PM
Yes, this is what I feel also. She (Denise) certainly did not act on what she saw with her own eyes! Had she done the right thing THEN, maybe Brooke would not have been murdered.

Cassandra could have kept Brooke out of a convicted sex offenders house. The cousins could have visited somewhere else. It should have been explained to those children why MJ was not to be around them.

I have no apologies for feeling this way. The sisters both put themselves ahead of the well being and safety of their children.

Brooke would not have been murdered, because he would have been in jail.
IF Brooke's family would have done "The right thing"
IMO

DeltaDawn
07-10-2008, 12:52 PM
Yes, this is what I feel also. She (Denise) certainly did not act on what she saw with her own eyes! Had she done the right thing THEN, maybe Brooke would not have been murdered.

Cassandra could have kept Brooke out of a convicted sex offenders house. The cousins could have visited somewhere else. It should have been explained to those children why MJ was not to be around them.

I have no apologies for feeling this way. The sisters both put themselves ahead of the well being and safety of their children.


I absolutely agree that these two sisters have a lot of dumb, blind, stupid, ridiculous actions to be held accountable for. I agree that the children in their families should have been made aware of why no one can be left alone with this uncle MJ and that they should have enforced that.

But, I don't think..unless they took part in anything to do with Breckenridge or the murder that LE will arrest them. I wish they could ..just for being stupid!!!

I do think that someone from Child Services should be looking into the family situation , talking to the rest of the children and setting up guidelines with them on who is permissable to be with the children and who isn't..since these foolish women couldn't figure that out for themselves..nor either of the grandmothers involved. That is what I find so appalling..all these adult women in their lives and no one seemed to have a clue that the kids shouldn't be near the SO in the family.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 12:54 PM
Yes, this is what I feel also. She (Denise) certainly did not act on what she saw with her own eyes! Had she done the right thing THEN, maybe Brooke would not have been murdered.

Cassandra could have kept Brooke out of a convicted sex offenders house. The cousins could have visited somewhere else. It should have been explained to those children why MJ was not to be around them.

I have no apologies for feeling this way. The sisters both put themselves ahead of the well being and safety of their children.


I feel the same way! All the children in this were failed!!!!!!! The adults (especially the two pedophile loving mothers) should be held responsible. They (meaning everyone) let their children around KNOWN sex offenders. I will tell you this much,.. it would be a cold day in hell before I would let anyone that was a sex offender,..(even if it wasn't against a child) be around my daughter!
What I don't understand is,.. If Brooke's real dad knew she was visiting TWO sex offenders,.. why the hell didn't he try to get custody of her? I just don't get it. The family, friends and law officials failed Brooke, AR, Savanna, C, and all of the other children in this family TREMENDOUSLY!!!! JMO

Sorry about the rant,.. I just don't understand how you can love someone so much and put them in harms way.:confused:

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 01:04 PM
I'm baaaack...

Do any of you think there is a Breckenridge? Do you think that is why, if they are, in protective custody? Maybe there is some truth to that part of the story and they are protecting the family? Why wouldn't they protect the Bennetts and Cassandra?

Chica
07-10-2008, 01:09 PM
I absolutely agree that these two sisters have a lot of dumb, blind, stupid, ridiculous actions to be held accountable for. I agree that the children in their families should have been made aware of why no one can be left alone with this uncle MJ and that they should have enforced that.

But, I don't think..unless they took part in anything to do with Breckenridge or the murder that LE will arrest them. I wish they could ..just for being stupid!!!

I do think that someone from Child Services should be looking into the family situation , talking to the rest of the children and setting up guidelines with them on who is permissable to be with the children and who isn't..since these foolish women couldn't figure that out for themselves..nor either of the grandmothers involved. That is what I find so appalling..all these adult women in their lives and no one seemed to have a clue that the kids shouldn't be near the SO in the family.

Thank you. I know it is not a popular position to hold, but I agree with you! I know that no one on this board would have made the same choices that either of these mothers did in relation to letting their children associate with a known RSO, but I feel we really don't have enough information from their perspective as to why they made the choices they did. I think it is a strong possiblity that ignorance played a large role . . . not that ignorance is an excuse - and I am certainly not trying to make up excuses for them - but I don't want to believe they allowed their children be around a RSO thinking there was even a remote chance that there was danger for their children. SO's are very manipulative, and I'm sure MJ had quite the song and dance for anyone who would listen as to why he is an RSO. . . he very likely could have said they were dating...she was mad at him...whatever. I'm just trying to say that I HOPE these mothers didn't willingly put their children in danger. I would like more information before I take lthe mothers out back and shoot them...I sure would like to hear their side of the story!:waitasec:

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 01:10 PM
They probably were fed the whole "Baby, I've changed" line and fell for it hook line and sinker.

lightinthedark
07-10-2008, 01:11 PM
I feel the same way! All the children in this were failed!!!!!!! The adults (especially the two pedophile loving mothers) should be held responsible. They (meaning everyone) let their children around KNOWN sex offenders. I will tell you this much,.. it would be a cold day in hell before I would let anyone that was a sex offender,..(even if it wasn't against a child) be around my daughter!
What I don't understand is,.. If Brooke's real dad knew she was visiting TWO sex offenders,.. why the hell didn't he try to get custody of her? I just don't get it. The family, friends and law officials failed Brooke, AR, Savanna, C, and all of the other children in this family TREMENDOUSLY!!!! JMO

Sorry about the rant,.. I just don't understand how you can love someone so much and put them in harms way.:confused:

I whole heartedly agree!! It just bothers me that these two sisters were married to SOs. It makes me wonder, were they victims of sexual assult at one point in their lives? Or is it just a huge coincidence that they both happened to fall for SOs? Not that it excuses the neglect to their children's safety. Stupidity is not an excuse either, it's criminal. Who knows what other dark secrets are being swept under the rug in that family. The whole thing is sickening. ALL IMO.

evelyn24
07-10-2008, 01:15 PM
I realize that Denise and MJ's youngest child has been ID'd in the media as well as Brooke's half brother-someday one or both of them may google themselves and these threads will come up. I know that the TOS as set forth by Adnoid stated leaving them out of it until their names were out in the mainstream media, but I wish oh wish we did not have to take that step simply because we can....

They are so exceptionally innocent, and I am actually concerned that Denise might, (and I mean might) be using the youngest as an example that they have nothing to hide-or that their lives are business as usual or for some other agenda...I mean who has a child that young speak at a funeral that is as high profile as this one??

JMHO.

Denise allowed her youngest to talk in front of a crowd of nearly a 1000 people, and in front of local and national media.
The threads on this board are the last thing I think those kids will worry about or be embarrassed about if they google their names when they get older. Especially considering the case at hand.
I have not mentioned the name of her daughter even though it's everywhere in the media, and I think most people here are not comfortable mentioning it, but I don't think it's going to matter at this point if someone does because the media has it plastered.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 01:18 PM
What I don't understand is,.. If Brooke's real dad knew she was visiting TWO sex offenders,.. why the hell didn't he try to get custody of her?

I agree, if you have kids you don't let them be around sex offenders, not under any conditions, no ifs, ands, or buts. That would be my rule.

In Jim Bennett's defense though, he and Cassandra were never married nor did they EVER live together. So the custody situation may have been a very difficult one.

And I don't think he knew that Brooke's stepdad was a SO, since he had no convictions yet.

I'm not saying it was OK, guess I just can't help but feel sorry for Jim Bennett...I think he was doing the best that HE could do under the circumstances. I mean, he was in Iraq part of the time, etc. etc. The two mothers, on the other hand, could have done everything to keep their children safe, but instead PUT them in harm's way. It's JMO but I think Jim Bennett will suffer for the rest of his life about this but I"m not really sure about the mothers....

Since Jacques had been released from probation, was he supposed to be "safe" around children or was he still forbidden to be around them unsupervised? Just wondering, not implying that it was a good idea in any case.

sigh... all so sickening.

DianeB
07-10-2008, 01:19 PM
Thank you for the link posted above. I found this interesting;
snip
James Bennett, Brooke’s father, said Gagnon had been married to Brooke’s mother, Cassandra Gagnon, whose sister is married to Jacques. Bennett said they separated about four years ago and may have divorced.
snip
What 6 years was Brooke living under this guy's roof? I mean, they appear to have separated when Brooke was 8...when did she arrive in VT?I have a related question. If Gagnon lived in AL from 98-07 and married Cassandra in 2000, was she living in Alabama at that time or did she move there when they married?

Brooke would have been two years old at the time of the marriage.

stillblv
07-10-2008, 01:19 PM
I feel the same way! All the children in this were failed!!!!!!! The adults (especially the two pedophile loving mothers) should be held responsible. They (meaning everyone) let their children around KNOWN sex offenders. I will tell you this much,.. it would be a cold day in hell before I would let anyone that was a sex offender,..(even if it wasn't against a child) be around my daughter!
What I don't understand is,.. If Brooke's real dad knew she was visiting TWO sex offenders,.. why the hell didn't he try to get custody of her? I just don't get it. The family, friends and law officials failed Brooke, AR, Savanna, C, and all of the other children in this family TREMENDOUSLY!!!! JMO

Sorry about the rant,.. I just don't understand how you can love someone so much and put them in harms way.:confused:

I remember reading that the bio Dad had been in Iraq. He may not have been able to get custody because he wasn't here.

believe09
07-10-2008, 01:20 PM
With all due respect, Denise allowed her youngest to talk in front of a crowd of nearly a 1000 people, and in front of local and national media.
These threads are the last thing I think those kids will worry about if they google their names when they get older. Especially considering the case at hand.
I have not mentioned the name of her daughter even though it's everywhere in the media, but it's not like everyone doesn't know it.

Yes, I realize she did. I respect your opinion of course-but I do not think that Denise's ideas about protecting her children and my ideas of protecting my children coincide. I would never have let my child speak at this funeral, and possibly I would not have allowed her to attend it. Denise and I do not have the same agenda, however.

calidreamin
07-10-2008, 01:24 PM
I whole heartedly agree!! It just bothers me that these two sisters were married to SOs. It makes me wonder, were they victims of sexual assult at one point in their lives? Or is it just a huge coincidence that they both happened to fall for SOs? Not that it excuses the neglect to their children's safety. Stupidity is not an excuse either, it's criminal. Who knows what other dark secrets are being swept under the rug in that family. The whole thing is sickening. ALL IMO.

Well hello neighbor and I totally agree with this! I heard a shrink on one of the news shows saying that it is very unusual for 2 sisters to be married to sex offenders at the same time.

evelyn24
07-10-2008, 01:25 PM
Yes, I realize she did. I respect your opinion of course-but I do not think that Denise's ideas about protecting her children and my ideas of protecting my children coincide. I would never have let my child speak at this funeral, and possibly I would not have allowed her to attend it. Denise and I do not have the same agenda, however.

I agree, I think Denise has horrible judgement..and that's being kind.
However, the rules state that we can mention a name once it's in the media.
I don't have a need to use C's name on here, but it is less confusing to some people who are trying to follow this case to see the names rather than initials, because they are not as familiar with all the family dynamics.
;)

christine2448
07-10-2008, 01:25 PM
Is there a way to redo these family trees (I just deleted them, I know you all have already saved) to NOT include the last names of everyone and only intials for 1st/Last name of all minors??

VTNance
07-10-2008, 01:31 PM
I have a related question. If Gagnon lived in AL from 98-07 and married Cassandra in 2000, was she living in Alabama at that time or did she move there when they married?

Brooke would have been two years old at the time of the marriage.

JUST SPECULATION, but perhaps MJ already had become acquainted with Gagnon through their shared interest in porn :mad: , via the Internet. Then MJ somehow arranges for RG to meet Denise's sister, who lives in Alabama? She (Cassandra) lived there before marrying Gagnon, right?? I can just imagine guys like that plotting and planning to marry single moms with children.

OK, I"m going to puke now.

DianeB
07-10-2008, 01:31 PM
If you do it as a family tree it wouldn't be possible to mask the last name of any children, but you could limit the first name to an initial.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 01:33 PM
I remember reading that the bio Dad had been in Iraq. He may not have been able to get custody because he wasn't here.

You know,.. I completely forgot about that.

lightinthedark
07-10-2008, 01:37 PM
Well hello neighbor and I totally agree with this! I heard a shrink on one of the news shows saying that it is very unusual for 2 sisters to be married to sex offenders at the same time.

I also understand that it hasn't come out if RG was/is a RSO, or has it? Either way, it poses one heck of a question... What are the odds?
It truly saddens me to know that all of the adults in this family knew about MJ's past and it all came down to this. If I knew of someone in my family being a SO and was around children, I would be doing everything in my power to keep children away, as well telling everyone about the SO in the area.... You know how quickly that would spread through the Upper Valley. Of course, someone in that family could have been trying to do something about it and we just don't know it. It just doesn't seem that way from reading the statements family members made to the press. Who knows? ALL IMO.

CarpeDiem
07-10-2008, 01:38 PM
You know,.. I completely forgot about that.

He even surprised one of his son's at school when he came back:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2354699&postcount=8

DianeB
07-10-2008, 01:39 PM
JUST SPECULATION, but perhaps MJ already had become acquainted with Gagnon through their shared interest in porn :mad: , via the Internet. Then MJ somehow arranges for RG to meet Denise's sister, who lives in Alabama? She (Cassandra) lived there before marrying Gagnon, right?? I can just imagine guys like that plotting and planning to marry single moms with children.

OK, I"m going to puke now.Is Gagnon originally from the Randolph area?

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 01:39 PM
JUST SPECULATION, but perhaps MJ already had become acquainted with Gagnon through their shared interest in porn :mad: , via the Internet. Then MJ somehow arranges for RG to meet Denise's sister, who lives in Alabama? She (Cassandra) lived there before marrying Gagnon, right?? I can just imagine guys like that plotting and planning to marry single moms with children.

OK, I"m going to puke now.

That is quite possible. Sick but possible.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 01:41 PM
JUST SPECULATION, but perhaps MJ already had become acquainted with Gagnon through their shared interest in porn :mad: , via the Internet. Then MJ somehow arranges for RG to meet Denise's sister, who lives in Alabama? She (Cassandra) lived there before marrying Gagnon, right?? I can just imagine guys like that plotting and planning to marry single moms with children.

OK, I"m going to puke now.


How completely disgusting! You know it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case. Pedophiles stick together,.. sick bastards

VTNance
07-10-2008, 01:43 PM
Is Gagnon originally from the Randolph area?


I think he was born in Maine. He went to school there. Gagnon is a pretty common name in upper New England.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 01:43 PM
I know this has been brought up but no one discussed it. Do you think it is possible that "C" has been molested by MJ? I mean Denise wouldn't have a problem leaving her with him since she thought he was innocent.

lightinthedark
07-10-2008, 01:48 PM
JUST SPECULATION, but perhaps MJ already had become acquainted with Gagnon through their shared interest in porn :mad: , via the Internet. Then MJ somehow arranges for RG to meet Denise's sister, who lives in Alabama? She (Cassandra) lived there before marrying Gagnon, right?? I can just imagine guys like that plotting and planning to marry single moms with children.

OK, I"m going to puke now.

OMG, that is so messed up! However, I think he is from VT, he has family there, right? Either way, it's freakin' vile.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 01:48 PM
I know this has been brought up but no one discussed it. Do you think it is possible that "C" has been molested by MJ? I mean Denise wouldn't have a problem leaving her with him since she thought he was innocent.

I wonder that about ALL the children involved in this case!! Given the people she was surrounded by, I find it hard to believe that Brooke hadn't already been molested in some way.... JUST SPECULATION and I hope I'm wrong...but there are so many things wrong here. I mean, she was raised for several years by a guy who has already admitted to having 5 years worth of child porn. She spent lots of time, apparently with little/no supervision (think DJ, even if she was home) over at her RSO uncle's house. Despite Cassandra saying she "always" knew where her kids were, she still hadn't called the police after Brooke had been missing for many, many hours. Lots of things could have happened, and kids often don't tell, esp. when they think of KNOW they won't be believed....feeling (probably correctly) they will only make more trouble for themselves in the end....they wont' get helped but will be in trouble for saying such 'nasty things' about uncle so-and-so.

sigh....

w1df10wr
07-10-2008, 01:48 PM
For those questioning about Denise allowing C at the funeral...

could we also consider that it may have been a pastor or counselor's suggestion. Perhaps C was asked if she would like to come to the funeral and speak about her cousin.

DianeB
07-10-2008, 01:49 PM
I think he was born in Maine. He went to school there. Gagnon is a pretty common name in upper New England.Yes, I'm originally from Boston (now living in Los Angeles), and went to school with some Gagnons.

So we don't yet know how Gagnon and Jacques originally became friends?

Busylady
07-10-2008, 01:54 PM
I just deleted the thread I started with all the family information. I cant figure out a way to do it without last names etc. There is no way to tie all the information together without that info. I will let someone else roll with the family tree thing, I do not want to break TOS rules or puts someones identity out there that shouldnt be out there.

Is there a way to redo these family trees (I just deleted them, I know you all have already saved) to NOT include the last names of everyone and only intials for 1st/Last name of all minors??

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 01:54 PM
serouslysearching, sorry I was out for a while. I just fell that Brooke would be better then BB. Just out of respect for her.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 01:54 PM
Hey,.. what happened to the family tree that Busy posted on the forum page? It was JUST there?????

And I do have a question for Busy,... so if I followed the family tree right,.. Denise and Cassandra are half sisters right?

lightinthedark
07-10-2008, 01:56 PM
For those questioning about Denise allowing C at the funeral...

could we also consider that it may have been a pastor or counselor's suggestion. Perhaps C was asked if she would like to come to the funeral and speak about her cousin.

I agree. Besides, regardless of the situation this was C's cousin. Even children that young need to go through the grieving process and have some sort of closure. I don't see anything wrong with allowing her to speak at the service, if that is what she wanted to do. All IMO.

emanon7
07-10-2008, 01:56 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted....the Urban Dictionary definition of Breckenridge is slang for skiing with friends all night. The snow used in this particular type of skiing isn't the kind that falls from the sky.
At first when I read this I thought the connection could be snow since another slang term for snow is white girl but.....then I looked at the definition of skiing and I think that definition makes more sense. The definition is graphic and I don't know if I can post that kind of language here so....please look up skiing at urbandictionary.com yourselves and let me know if you think this could be why he called it breckenridge.

gigi2009
07-10-2008, 01:58 PM
I posted a diagram of the family tree. I think it was removed because it might have included a minor's name. I edited it and sent it off for Christine's approval. I left it up to her to repost it.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 01:59 PM
For those questioning about Denise allowing C at the funeral...

could we also consider that it may have been a pastor or counselor's suggestion. Perhaps C was asked if she would like to come to the funeral and speak about her cousin.

That could very well be. I think that C should have been there. But I just can't get over Denise being there. I mean if that was my sister I would be so angry if she attended. Regardless if she didn't have anything to do with my daughters death. She knew abuse was going on,.. HOW COULD YOU NOT WITH ALL THOSE SIGNS! Even if she didn't KNOW KNOW,.. she had to have suspicions (sp) though. And she should have made sure that her daughters and her sister's daughters were safe! The only way I could excuse the whole ky jelly, both of them wrapped in a towel, porn in dvd player and child porn on the computer (oh and lets not forget the "toy" in ARs room ) is if it JUST happened and she hadn't gone to the police yet,.. but I find that HIGHLY unlikely,.. JMO

christine2448
07-10-2008, 02:00 PM
I just deleted the thread I started with all the family information. I cant figure out a way to do it without last names etc. There is no way to tie all the information together without that info. I will let someone else roll with the family tree thing, I do not want to break TOS rules or puts someones identity out there that shouldnt be out there.

It has not poofed, I can still reinstate it.....let me just be sure it's all OK, I'll get a 2nd opinion from adnoid when he is available. Thanks for your patience and understanding.

Tom'sGirl
07-10-2008, 02:02 PM
I just deleted the thread I started with all the family information. I cant figure out a way to do it without last names etc. There is no way to tie all the information together without that info. I will let someone else roll with the family tree thing, I do not want to break TOS rules or puts someones identity out there that shouldnt be out there.
You're absolutely right, no way without adding last names as to how they're associated Busy.

It's a tangled mess as it is, and leaving out last or first names only makes it more confusing.

THANK YOU for all the research you have done on this case.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 02:03 PM
You're absolutely right, no way without adding last names as to how they're associated Busy.

It's a tangled mess as it is, and leaving out last or first names only makes it more confusing.

THANK YOU for all the research you have done on this case.

YES BUSY,.. thank you so much!

So am I correct that Denise and Cassandra are half sisters then?

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 02:05 PM
I just looked up Cassandra Gagnon on USA people search and it shows that she previously lived in Cullman AL.

Maybe everyone allready knew that I don't know...

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 02:06 PM
I just looked up Cassandra Gagnon on USA people search and it shows that she previously lived in Cullman AL.

Maybe everyone allready knew that I don't know...


i think that were her and RG were living and then when they divorced she came to VT with the kids

lightinthedark
07-10-2008, 02:09 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted....the Urban Dictionary definition of Breckenridge is slang for skiing with friends all night. The snow used in this particular type of skiing isn't the kind that falls from the sky.
At first when I read this I thought the connection could be snow since another slang term for snow is white girl but.....then I looked at the definition of skiing and I think that definition makes more sense. The definition is graphic and I don't know if I can post that kind of language here so....please look up skiing at urbandictionary.com yourselves and let me know if you think this could be why he called it breckenridge.

OMG, I never heard of that before! I think you may be right. All IMO.

Busylady
07-10-2008, 02:10 PM
Technically there is no blood relation between Cassandra and Denise.

Hey,.. what happened to the family tree that Busy posted on the forum page? It was JUST there?????

And I do have a question for Busy,... so if I followed the family tree right,.. Denise and Cassandra are half sisters right?

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 02:12 PM
Technically there is no blood relation between Cassandra and Denise.

oh,.. so they have both different mothers then? Oh I am so confused! I thought they had the same mother,..

boy this family marries and divorces like crazy!:eek:

DianeB
07-10-2008, 02:13 PM
Technically there is no blood relation between Cassandra and Denise.They're stepsisters?

lightinthedark
07-10-2008, 02:14 PM
oh,.. so they have both different mothers then? Oh I am so confused! I thought they had the same mother,..

boy this family marries and divorces like crazy!:eek:

I was under the same impression. :confused:

Busylady
07-10-2008, 02:15 PM
Lucinda married Cassandras father - I do not know who Cassandras bio mother is at this point.
Lucinda is Denise biological mother and Cassandra and Denise have different bio fathers.

I know its very confusing.

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 02:17 PM
enanon7 I went to the dictionary I had no idea,you my be unto something.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 02:18 PM
Lucinda married Cassandras father - I do not know who Cassandras bio mother is at this point.
Lucinda is Denise biological mother and Cassandra and Denise have different bio fathers.

I know its very confusing.

So is Cassandra's bio father still married to Lucinda?

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 02:19 PM
what a confusing family tree

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 02:20 PM
OMG, I never heard of that before! I think you may be right. All IMO.

all I have to say is OMG!!!!! I thought when you said look it up it would be the drug reference. I had NO IDEA that it would be that,.... :eek:

lightinthedark
07-10-2008, 02:23 PM
So, if they don't have the same parents (mother or father), then why are they being called sisters? :confused:

Chica
07-10-2008, 02:26 PM
So, if they don't have the same parents (mother or father), then why are they being called sisters? :confused:

They are step-sisters. My guess is that they were raised like 'sisters'.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 02:27 PM
RG has an address in Maine...didn't someone say that MJ was born and raised in Maine?

When I search for Mike Jaques or Micheal S. Jaques I get all over the map but not anything in Vermont

Busylady
07-10-2008, 02:28 PM
No she is not.

So is Cassandra's bio father still married to Lucinda?

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 02:32 PM
somebody do something quick, fix this family tree if you want to call it that. I have chest pains and my cheeks hurt from laughinghttp://websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif
:confused::doh:http://websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/doh.gif
:doh:

VTNance
07-10-2008, 02:32 PM
RG has an address in Maine...didn't someone say that MJ was born and raised in Maine?

When I search for Mike Jaques or Micheal S. Jaques I get all over the map but not anything in Vermont

Jacques, with a "c"

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 02:34 PM
Jacques, with a "c"

Holy crap! There it is...sorry everyone:slap: myself

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 02:35 PM
As you can see I'm a newbie newbie.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 02:37 PM
I give up...I suck *LOL*

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 02:40 PM
I personally don't think AR will be testifying, MJ will probably cop a plea deal. How else will he get out of the death penalty.

DeltaDawn
07-10-2008, 02:44 PM
I think without the last names it will be impossible to follow along on the family tree, there are so many marriages and divorces. Everybody seems to have a different last name. I think because the last names have been published in the newspapers they need to be included or it won't make any sense.

Thank you so much Busy for all your work on this case.

DD

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 02:45 PM
i have not posted anything in a few days but just wanted to say look up some of the other words in that urban dictionary including, phone and company, i think someone is on to something here.

and not sure if it matters but MJ address i thought was 1850 the sex equipment was billed and shipped to 1820, maybe evryone already knew that but my pdf editor shows 1820 on MJ affidavit.

Allen

DeltaDawn
07-10-2008, 02:45 PM
I personally don't think AR will be testifying, MJ will probably cop a plea deal. How else will he get out of the death penalty.

I think Kevin has probably already copped that plea with the Feds, so that may never even be an option for MJ. I think AR's testimony is what they are going to need to seal this case against MJ, RG, and Kevin..and any other snake in the grass who is involved here.

lonetraveler
07-10-2008, 02:50 PM
I noticed that MJ on the Brooke kidnapping Affidavit, states in an e-mail to AR that he hopes that when AR and her mother go to counseling, that she mentions that she doesn't like how her mom is treating her dad........
Question: What counseling? Does anyone know if AR is really going to counseling or not? Has anyone else picked up on this statement? I'm very curious about that statement.:waitasec:

believe09
07-10-2008, 02:51 PM
I agree. Besides, regardless of the situation this was C's cousin. Even children that young need to go through the grieving process and have some sort of closure. I don't see anything wrong with allowing her to speak at the service, if that is what she wanted to do. All IMO.

I defer to everyone's personal judgment of course, however the idea that a child under the age of 10 would be allowed to speak at a public funeral of another child who was murdered under such horrifying circumstances, much less one that was going to be broadcast certainly across the country if not outside of it, and it was a crime that her biological father perpetrated (at least he is accused of it)although hopefully she is not completely aware of that aspect ye God-sure have the child, if she is compelled by love of the deceased, speak at a private family viewing. Or Wake. Or something that did not require a state police presence and camera crews....it makes me ill. JMO.

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 02:56 PM
for anyone look up the word RAKER in the urban dictionary, seems kinda wierd all those words have something sexual in them.


Allen

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 02:57 PM
I as well looked up phone company U dictionary there are some sexual undertones.

lonetraveler
07-10-2008, 02:59 PM
IMO, I believe that Brooke was already being molested by MJ. It has been stated that she was over at his house a lot. AR's statements read as if she isn't very fond of Brooke. I just can not believe that MJ would have kept his hands off of Brooke. I also feel that Gagnon was molesting her from an early age. For all I know, Gagnon and MJ were comparing notes. I think that Brooke wanted it to stop and that caused everything to hit the proverbial fan. AR in one of her statements mentioned more than one girl in the sex ring.

I can't for the life of me understand how AR could have believed that there were two different people communicating with her by e-mail. Was she suppose to have ever seen these two men? Was she suppose to have been involved in sex with any other men besides MJ and RG? Can someone spill some light on this subject?

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 02:59 PM
I looked up raker as well more sexual untones.

Chica
07-10-2008, 03:00 PM
I noticed that MJ on the Brooke kidnapping Affidavit, states in an e-mail to AR that he hopes that when AR and her mother go to counseling, that she mentions that she doesn't like how her mom is treating her dad........
Question: What counseling? Does anyone know if AR is really going to counseling or not? Has anyone else picked up on this statement? I'm very curious about that statement.:waitasec:

There has been a lot of speculation about this. I mentioned a few days ago that it is my wish that Denise only recently walked in on AR in the towel, etc., and that is the reason for the counseling (although she should have removed herself and her children from the home at that time IMO).

I think that since MJ mentioned it in an email, it must be true that they are attending counseling.

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 03:02 PM
and also Farm has the same thing.


Allen

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 03:04 PM
I think all those words in there are perverted sexual stuff they did or planned to do. its like a code they had. just my opinion.

Allen

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 03:04 PM
IMO, I believe that Brooke was already being molested by MJ. It has been stated that she was over at his house a lot. AR's statements read as if she isn't very fond of Brooke. I just can not believe that MJ would have kept his hands off of Brooke. I also feel that Gagnon was molesting her from an early age. For all I know, Gagnon and MJ were comparing notes. I think that Brooke wanted it to stop and that caused everything to hit the proverbial fan. AR in one of her statements mentioned more than one girl in the sex ring.

I can't for the life of me understand how AR could have believed that there were two different people communicating with her by e-mail. Was she suppose to have ever seen these two men? Was she suppose to have been involved in sex with any other men besides MJ and RG? Can someone spill some light on this subject?


Maybe Brooke was doing better in the program that AR and AR wasn't too happy about that??

Chica
07-10-2008, 03:04 PM
I defer to everyone's personal judgment of course, however the idea that a child under the age of 10 would be allowed to speak at a public funeral of another child who was murdered under such horrifying circumstances, much less one that was going to be broadcast certainly across the country if not outside of it, and it was a crime that her biological father perpetrated (at least he is accused of it)although hopefully she is not completely aware of that aspect ye God-sure have the child, if she is compelled by love of the deceased, speak at a private family viewing. Or Wake. Or something that did not require a state police presence and camera crews....it makes me ill. JMO.

I have been to many funerals where children speak. C was Brooke's cousin, and it was obvious to me that she wanted to speak at the funeral, and she did a wonderful job, IMO. (There is no way I could ever do that!!) It may be part of the healing process for her - I see nothing wrong with it.

DeltaDawn
07-10-2008, 03:07 PM
I looked up raker as well more sexual untones.

Raker is mentioned with the name Kevin..look that Kevin up ..sexual in nature too.

Cornflower
07-10-2008, 03:09 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted....the Urban Dictionary definition of Breckenridge is slang for skiing with friends all night. The snow used in this particular type of skiing isn't the kind that falls from the sky.
At first when I read this I thought the connection could be snow since another slang term for snow is white girl but.....then I looked at the definition of skiing and I think that definition makes more sense. The definition is graphic and I don't know if I can post that kind of language here so....please look up skiing at urbandictionary.com yourselves and let me know if you think this could be why he called it breckenridge.

Ehem...I sure have learned a lot by reading these threads!

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 03:13 PM
In the one email she thinks its rauel (c) not MJ.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 03:14 PM
Maybe Brooke was doing better in the program that AR and AR wasn't too happy about that??

It's disgusting even to say, but AR was getting pretty "old" to be interesting to a pedophile, while Brooke was a little younger. So I say it's a good possibility that AR was jealous. I know that sounds sick too because she was a victim, but to her, sex = survival.

To suggest that Brooke was somehow completely protected from all this stuff that AR was going thru, given how close, and how dysfunctional, the two family groups allegedly were.... I just don't think it's likely. IMO. I hope like anything that I am wrong but I fear there was a LOT more going on than we even know about still.

MistyGirl
07-10-2008, 03:15 PM
I'm baaaack...

Do any of you think there is a Breckenridge? Do you think that is why, if they are, in protective custody? Maybe there is some truth to that part of the story and they are protecting the family? Why wouldn't they protect the Bennetts and Cassandra?

I think Breckenridge was a sick thing MJ came up with in order to manipulate children into having sex and being brainwashed....I beleive this is soemthing he and few others used to gain control.

lightinthedark
07-10-2008, 03:18 PM
I defer to everyone's personal judgment of course, however the idea that a child under the age of 10 would be allowed to speak at a public funeral of another child who was murdered under such horrifying circumstances, much less one that was going to be broadcast certainly across the country if not outside of it, and it was a crime that her biological father perpetrated (at least he is accused of it)although hopefully she is not completely aware of that aspect ye God-sure have the child, if she is compelled by love of the deceased, speak at a private family viewing. Or Wake. Or something that did not require a state police presence and camera crews....it makes me ill. JMO.


I understand what you're saying and agree the circumstances are horrible. I still feel that if speaking at the service is what SHE wanted to do, then it's ok. If she was forced into it, I certainly wouldn't support it. I agree to disagree. However, I don't believe any wake or funeral should be open to the press or broadcasted all over TV or the web. IMO.

luthersmama
07-10-2008, 03:19 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted....the Urban Dictionary definition of Breckenridge is slang for skiing with friends all night. The snow used in this particular type of skiing isn't the kind that falls from the sky.
At first when I read this I thought the connection could be snow since another slang term for snow is white girl but.....then I looked at the definition of skiing and I think that definition makes more sense. The definition is graphic and I don't know if I can post that kind of language here so....please look up skiing at urbandictionary.com yourselves and let me know if you think this could be why he called it breckenridge.



I mentioned a few threads back that there is a spot in Vermont known as Breckenridge. There is a horse farm there. It doesn't have its own zip code, but if you google "breckenridge vermont" you will get some hits that are not related to Brooke.

I think it is just a name that he liked.

nanandjim
07-10-2008, 03:20 PM
I think Breckenridge was a sick thing MJ came up with in order to manipulate children into having sex and being brainwashed....I beleive this is soemthing he and few others used to gain control.
I believe that it is something he devised so he could portray himself as a victim of circumstance. Breckenridge assigned him as the trainer. Breckenridge gave the orders and told him what he had to do to this child. So, it absolved him of any responsibility for the molesting. He made this child believe that he was forced to do it. Then, he was able to play a role and put it away when necessary. Of course, it works on innocent children. They don't know any better.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 03:20 PM
takedown is also sexual in the UD

DeltaDawn
07-10-2008, 03:22 PM
Well, I will say rather Breckenridge exists only in the minds of MJ, RG, and Kevin (possibly more) As their little pedo club for swapping storys, pics, and vids..I know that it was real to AR....she felt her very life rest on her performance for Breckenridge. The sick SOB's that put her through that are disgusting.

I still am on the fence about rather or not Brooke knew about what was going on ..because she lived with her Mom, her sister and her grandmother..I feel she would have tried to communicate with one of them if she was being abused.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 03:23 PM
Ehem...I sure have learned a lot by reading these threads!


On an earlier post, I had noted that "skittles" was in urbandictionary referring to both pedophiles and sex acts involving Skittles!!!

Not to say that some of these references aren't meaningful, but it could be that any word at all you might look up, would have a sexual connotation in urbandictionary! LOL

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 03:24 PM
I'm on the fence about Brooke knowing as well. Maybe AR confided in her and she told AR that she would tell if she didn't stop and that's why they did what they did.

I don't know...I'm sooo confused.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 03:25 PM
On an earlier post, I had noted that "skittles" was in urbandictionary referring to both pedophiles and sex acts involving Skittles!!!

Not to say that some of these references aren't meaningful, but it could be that any word at all you might look up, would have a sexual connotation in urbandictionary! LOL

nah I've looked up a few. *LOL*

Domingo is a fonzie type person

nanandjim
07-10-2008, 03:26 PM
takedown is also sexual in the UD
Geez...I must not get out much...takedown...skittles...raker... :confused: I'm glad that I don't know what all these things mean. Too bad a child/children was/were exposed to such depravity.:(

DeltaDawn
07-10-2008, 03:27 PM
They sound like slang to me and I do feel that MJ knew their meaning. Just like I think that he knew the meaning of the expression Your pissing in your mouth, same as what's that s*it you been talking. I am sure all this is also common in prison and in his SO program.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 03:28 PM
I still am on the fence about rather or not Brooke knew about what was going on ..because she lived with her Mom, her sister and her grandmother..I feel she would have tried to communicate with one of them if she was being abused.

Why?? Her mom didn't even report her missing! Certainly likely that mom would not have believed. If both sisters married pedos then certainly likely they came from an abusive home and their mother also ignored warning signs/pleas for help. In that case, both Savanna and Brooke would have grown up knowing that asking for help was pointless. IMO it seems they grew up in an abusive culture, and children who grow up like that learn NOT to ask for help and NOT to spill the dirty secrets of the adults who abuse them.

MCDRAW
07-10-2008, 03:29 PM
Denise could have prevented Brooke's murder, so could have Cassandra.
IMO


So could the state that allowed him early release.

MCDRAW
07-10-2008, 03:31 PM
Why?? Her mom didn't even report her missing! Certainly likely that mom would not have believed. If both sisters married pedos then certainly likely they came from an abusive home and their mother also ignored warning signs/pleas for help. In that case, both Savanna and Brooke would have grown up knowing that asking for help was pointless. IMO it seems they grew up in an abusive culture, and children who grow up like that learn NOT to ask for help and NOT to spill the dirty secrets of the adults who abuse them.


I don't think they reported her missing because Jacques kept telling the story he wanted them to believe. IMO He probably also told them the police wouldn't do anything for so many hours.

Busylady
07-10-2008, 03:31 PM
The Jacques live at 1820 they use to live at 1850 but now they rent out 1850.

i have not posted anything in a few days but just wanted to say look up some of the other words in that urban dictionary including, phone and company, i think someone is on to something here.

and not sure if it matters but MJ address i thought was 1850 the sex equipment was billed and shipped to 1820, maybe evryone already knew that but my pdf editor shows 1820 on MJ affidavit.

Allen

VTNance
07-10-2008, 03:32 PM
I believe that it is something he devised so he could portray himself as a victim of circumstance. Breckenridge assigned him as the trainer. Breckenridge gave the orders and told him what he had to do to this child. So, it absolved him of any responsibility for the molesting. He made this child believe that he was forced to do it. Then, he was able to play a role and put it away when necessary. Of course, it works on innocent children. They don't know any better.

Yup. "I'm really sorry I have to do this to you, but they told me to, and if we don't, we'll both get killed by the big guys!"

GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 03:34 PM
Geez...I must not get out much...takedown...skittles...raker... :confused: I'm glad that I don't know what all these things mean. Too bad a child/children was/were exposed to such depravity.:(

yup and all this time I just thought skittles were a yummy candy...who knew?

DeltaDawn
07-10-2008, 03:34 PM
Why?? Her mom didn't even report her missing! Certainly likely that mom would not have believed. If both sisters married pedos then certainly likely they came from an abusive home and their mother also ignored warning signs/pleas for help. In that case, both Savanna and Brooke would have grown up knowing that asking for help was pointless. IMO it seems they grew up in an abusive culture, and children who grow up like that learn NOT to ask for help and NOT to spill the dirty secrets of the adults who abuse them.

I agree that Mom might not have done anything, but grandmom and Savanna might have. I think if she told anyone it would have been Savanna, wondering if the same had happened to her. But she may not have told because like AR , MJ would have threatened to hurt Brooke as well as her Mom and sister. Breckenridge used that ploy on AR.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 03:35 PM
So, do we know who Sam is that is mentioned in the affadavit? pg 12? OH and Corey?

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 03:38 PM
I also wonder what Rauel ment in the e-mail saying that he "definatley couldn't do this part of the job for a living that's for sure"?

DeltaDawn
07-10-2008, 03:38 PM
I was thinking they were boyfriends of AR, but I am not sure now who they are...it just is too confusing. Sam and Corey is who I am talking about. Reuel was a persona of MJ through Breckenridge.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 03:39 PM
I also wonder what Rauel ment in the e-mail saying that he "definatley couldn't do this part of the job for a living that's for sure"?

IMO that's just his b.s., trying to sound all important and dangerous and mysterious.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 03:40 PM
I also don't think that AR and Rauel had not met. By reading the e-mails it seems as if they had.

TxJillyBean
07-10-2008, 03:49 PM
Look up "Season" at urbandictionary.com.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 03:50 PM
I also don't think that AR and Rauel had not met. By reading the e-mails it seems as if they had.

This is twisted, but, is it possible that, although MJ was writing the e-mails from "Rauel".... could they have passed RG off as "Rauel" when he came to town? Since AR lived in VT when Brooke's mom was married to RG in Alabama.... it is possible they never met? If she never saw pictures of him, they could have set this up... written her e-mails from him... then when this pervert shows up, he thinks he's her "boyfriend." That way, she would have met him, and it does sound like they had met in person. Only, she thought he was some kind of spy, instead of her pervy step-uncle-whatever.

KTaylorsc
07-10-2008, 03:52 PM
This is twisted, but, is it possible that, although MJ was writing the e-mails from "Rauel".... could they have passed RG off as "Rauel" when he came to town? Since AR lived in VT when Brooke's mom was married to RG in Alabama.... it is possible they never met? If she never saw pictures of him, they could have set this up... written her e-mails from him... then when this pervert shows up, he thinks he's her "boyfriend." That way, she would have met him, and it does sound like they had met in person. Only, she thought he was some kind of spy, instead of her pervy step-uncle-whatever.

I agree

SuziQ
07-10-2008, 03:57 PM
Search Currently Underway for Ray Gagnon’s Safe


http://www.fox44.net/Global/story.asp?S=8654872

christine2448
07-10-2008, 04:00 PM
Search Currently Underway for Ray Gagnon’s Safe


http://www.fox44.net/Global/story.asp?S=8654872


:clap::clap::clap::clap::woohoo::woohoo::blowkiss: :D :D :D

:Banane57:

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 04:04 PM
The Jacques live at 1820 they use to live at 1850 but now they rent out 1850.
whitepages.com has there home as 1850, with phone number matching.


Allen

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 04:08 PM
Look up "Season" at urbandictionary.com.
i looked up most of them they all fit in, Field Farm Season, etc...

Allen

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 04:08 PM
I think all those words in there are perverted sexual stuff they did or planned to do. its like a code they had. just my opinion.

Allen

I believe that as well.

CarpeDiem
07-10-2008, 04:08 PM
Search Currently Underway for Ray Gagnon’s Safe


http://www.fox44.net/Global/story.asp?S=8654872

YES!:woohoo:Thanks for letting us know.

lightinthedark
07-10-2008, 04:09 PM
Look up "Season" at urbandictionary.com.

:eek: I wonder if we replaced all of the words in those emails with the definitions from urbandictionary, if the emails would make more sense, or if it's coincidence that all these words seem to have some kind of sexual refference to them? :confused: IMO

Starr58
07-10-2008, 04:11 PM
This is twisted, but, is it possible that, although MJ was writing the e-mails from "Rauel".... could they have passed RG off as "Rauel" when he came to town? Since AR lived in VT when Brooke's mom was married to RG in Alabama.... it is possible they never met? If she never saw pictures of him, they could have set this up... written her e-mails from him... then when this pervert shows up, he thinks he's her "boyfriend." That way, she would have met him, and it does sound like they had met in person. Only, she thought he was some kind of spy, instead of her pervy step-uncle-whatever.

Could Rauel possibly be KG, the safe thrower.

Starr58
07-10-2008, 04:12 PM
YES!:woohoo:Thanks for letting us know.

Geeshhh...a little late for that now isn't it?

christine2448
07-10-2008, 04:13 PM
Geeshhh...a little late for that now isn't it?

Why?? NO way! They need that evidence.

eris
07-10-2008, 04:14 PM
Do you think that was maybe because of Denises work schedule or have somethign to do with when little C would be home???? There was a reason why if we dont do it on such and such date we have to wait until this date......I wonder what that reason was?


Ive'd read somewhere that Denise isnt working for the last few months. I think i have to find that article. Anyone else read that?

evelyn24
07-10-2008, 04:14 PM
:clap::clap::clap::clap::woohoo::woohoo::blowkiss: :D :D :D

:Banane57:

LOL!!
I knew this news would get you going.

Lola
07-10-2008, 04:14 PM
for anyone look up the word RAKER in the urban dictionary, seems kinda wierd all those words have something sexual in them.


Allen

Practically everything on the urban dictionary is related to either sex or drugs.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 04:15 PM
I understand what you're saying and agree the circumstances are horrible. I still feel that if speaking at the service is what SHE wanted to do, then it's ok. If she was forced into it, I certainly wouldn't support it. I agree to disagree. However, I don't believe any wake or funeral should be open to the press or broadcasted all over TV or the web. IMO.

Maybe Cassandra wanted it to be broadcasted??? IMO Don't you think if she didn't want it to be they couldn't have? I mean I think they would have to get permission to tape a funeral and broadcast it on tv or internet. Am I wrong?

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 04:16 PM
I think at this point that any word would be sexual in that dicttionary.

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 04:16 PM
Ive'd read somewhere that Denise isnt working for the last few months. I think i have to find that article. Anyone else read that?
Denise switched jobs i can tell you that but i wont tell you where to.

Allen

Starr58
07-10-2008, 04:16 PM
Why?? NO way! They need that evidence.

I only meant that, I expected they were looking for that before now

evelyn24
07-10-2008, 04:17 PM
Practically everything on the urban dictionary is related to either sex or drugs.

I know, and you have to be careful with Urban Dictionary, because some stuff is just made up by people for laughs, and is not really known slang used by anybody.

CarpeDiem
07-10-2008, 04:18 PM
Geeshhh...a little late for that now isn't it?

It makes more sense to me that he would have buried it, but the fed's seem to think he is telling the truth about what he did with it.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 04:18 PM
Could Rauel possibly be KG, the safe thrower.

There's actually a "Kevin" mentioned in the e-mails too....

I can't imagine a 14-year-old girl thinking that RG, from his pic, was some wonderful guy she wants to be in love with...but then, we are talking about someone severely abused, reactions to anything aren't going to be what we might consider normal.

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 04:20 PM
I don't think they reported her missing because Jacques kept telling the story he wanted them to believe. IMO He probably also told them the police wouldn't do anything for so many hours.

I don't care what story I was told to believe,.. if my daughter was gone more than 2 hours without me knowing where she was I would be calling everyone I knew, especially the hospital where she was suppose to be to make sure she was even there. I wouldn't have waited 12 HOURS to call the police,.. well I guess she didn't either since she DIDN'T call!!!!!! IMO

Busylady
07-10-2008, 04:22 PM
The affidavit states his residence is 1820 East Bethel, I will go with that vs whitepages.com anytime.

whitepages.com has there home as 1850, with phone number matching.


Allen

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 04:23 PM
The affidavit states his residence is 1820 East Bethel, I will go with that vs whitepages.com anytime.
yep was just wondering thxxxxxxxxxx.


Allen

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 04:25 PM
I thought that I read the mil made the call 12 hrs later.

Tom'sGirl
07-10-2008, 04:25 PM
Denise switched jobs i can tell you that but i wont tell you where to.
Then why mention that you know where :confused:

VTNance
07-10-2008, 04:26 PM
I don't care what story I was told to believe,.. if my daughter was gone more than 2 hours without me knowing where she was I would be calling everyone I knew, especially the hospital where she was suppose to be to make sure she was even there.

Good point, do we know if they EVER called Dartmouth-Hitchcock (the hospital where she was supposed to be going)?

I have 3 questions I'd really like the answers to:

1. Where was Denise all day??
2. Did Cassandra believe MJ's story about Brooke "meeting a friend"? Was she told this story, or was that just something MJ told the police? If not, where did Cassandra think Brooke was?
3. WHO finally phoned the police? Supposedly, whoever it was called the police, who then called Cassandra's house. That person has been described as a "family friend." Wonder if it might have even been Savanna?

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 04:26 PM
I thought that I read the mil made the call 12 hrs later.

Cassandra didn't,... a family friend did

lightinthedark
07-10-2008, 04:27 PM
Maybe Cassandra wanted it to be broadcasted??? IMO Don't you think if she didn't want it to be they couldn't have? I mean I think they would have to get permission to tape a funeral and broadcast it on tv or internet. Am I wrong?

I'm not sure, I'm wondering that myself. :waitasec: God, I can't imagine okaying that if I were in her position, then again, it goes against my personal beliefs in anyway. That just MO.

christine2448
07-10-2008, 04:27 PM
i only meant that, i expected they were looking for that before now

oic :D

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 04:27 PM
Good point, do we know if they EVER called Dartmouth-Hitchcock (the hospital where she was supposed to be going)?

I have 3 questions I'd really like the answers to:

1. Where was Denise all day??
2. Did Cassandra believe MJ's story about Brooke "meeting a friend"? Was she told this story, or was that just something MJ told the police? If not, where did Cassandra think Brooke was?
3. WHO finally phoned the police? Supposedly, whoever it was called the police, who then called Cassandra's house. That person has been described as a "family friend." Wonder if it might have even been Savanna?

exactly,... I just don't understand this family,.. IMO the only "normal" ones in here is Jim and Janet and Savanna,.. (IMO)

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 04:29 PM
I'm not sure, I'm wondering that myself. :waitasec: God, I can't imagine okaying that if I were in her position, then again, it goes against my personal beliefs in anyway. That just MO.

well from what i have read,.. she seems to be playing the "victim" through this whole thing,.. maybe I am wrong though. Its just how I perceived what i have read. So the ultimate playing the victim would be to have it broadcasted because then EVERYONE that didn't show up would see it and then she would get sympathy,.. JMO

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 04:32 PM
Then why mention that you know where :confused:
After the mess with names etc... the other day im not posting any names.

i didnt like the way it was presented instead of just asking to not post names, and i didnt post any name that wasnt already out there, but i do realize that the children should be protected.

Allen

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 04:33 PM
If memory is correct I thought that Brooke had spent the night of the 24th MJ was taking her home and they stopped at the store (video.) I still think they went some place else to do the dirt deed.

RR0004
07-10-2008, 04:35 PM
This is twisted, but, is it possible that, although MJ was writing the e-mails from "Rauel".... could they have passed RG off as "Rauel" when he came to town? Since AR lived in VT when Brooke's mom was married to RG in Alabama.... it is possible they never met? If she never saw pictures of him, they could have set this up... written her e-mails from him... then when this pervert shows up, he thinks he's her "boyfriend." That way, she would have met him, and it does sound like they had met in person. Only, she thought he was some kind of spy, instead of her pervy step-uncle-whatever.
Do you mean initially...years back? Confused. They said RG would come for visits...doubt if AR wasn't aware of what he looked like. Heck, wasn't Cassandra even willing to kick out her most recent lowlife boyfriend when she heard RG was coming? hard to pinpoint this timeline.

Tom'sGirl
07-10-2008, 04:37 PM
Maybe Cassandra wanted it to be broadcasted??? IMO Don't you think if she didn't want it to be they couldn't have? I mean I think they would have to get permission to tape a funeral and broadcast it on tv or internet. Am I wrong?

We don't know for a fact that Cassandra made the Funeral arrangements, or paid for it.

That MAY have been done by Mike & Janet Bennett as the Pastor, Tom Hardy seemed to be familiar with Mike & Janet's family.

Chica
07-10-2008, 04:37 PM
Denise switched jobs i can tell you that but i wont tell you where to.

Allen

Thanks, jnodrog - does that mean Denise WAS working, but she just switched jobs recently?? If so, do you know how recently she switched jobs? Do you know if she was working on June 25?

Thanks for sharing your inside knowledge - it's so good to have a 'local' here!:blowkiss:

RR0004
07-10-2008, 04:37 PM
:clap::clap::clap::clap::woohoo::woohoo::blowkiss: :D :D :D

:Banane57:
Feel better?

RR0004
07-10-2008, 04:38 PM
We don't know for a fact that Cassandra made the Funeral arrangements, or paid for it.

That MAY have been done by Mike & Janet Bennett as the Pastor, Tom Hardy seemed to be familiar with Mike & Janet's family.
I agree.

becca
07-10-2008, 04:38 PM
I'm not sure, I'm wondering that myself. :waitasec: God, I can't imagine okaying that if I were in her position, then again, it goes against my personal beliefs in anyway. That just MO.

It has to do with it being open to the public as opposed to private for family and close friends. Plus this is high profile , the media will try to be out of the way as much as possible.

Elley Mae
07-10-2008, 04:40 PM
RR0004 you must be confused Gagnon would come for visits Brooke's ex stepdad MJ is her uncle

Chica
07-10-2008, 04:40 PM
Maybe Cassandra wanted it to be broadcasted??? IMO Don't you think if she didn't want it to be they couldn't have? I mean I think they would have to get permission to tape a funeral and broadcast it on tv or internet. Am I wrong?

I would think Cassandra and Jim would both have to approve the funeral being televised. One reason they may have approved it is that a lot of people around the country were giving them support and they knew it was of country-wide interest...just a thought...

Starr58
07-10-2008, 04:41 PM
It has to do with it being open to the public as opposed to private for family and close friends. Plus this is high profile , the media will try to be out of the way as much as possible.

And it is an opportunity for LE to glean more information from those in attendance and through observing interactions between people.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 04:41 PM
Do you mean initially...years back? Confused. They said MJ would come for visits...doubt if AR wasn't aware of what he looked like. Heck, wasn't Cassandra even willing to kick out her most recent lowlife boyfriend when she heard MJ was coming? hard to pinpoint this timeline.

MJ has lived with AR for years... is her stepfather, married to Denise.
RG was Brooke's stepfather and lived in Alabama, then Texas. Was married to Cassandra.

So what I"m suggesting is that if Cass. married RG in Alabama but left him before she moved back to VT, AR may never have met him. Thus he could have been passed off as the cool guy, Rauel, when he showed up for his pervy fun with his buddy, MJ. Thus making AR more willing to go along with whatever.

But, if RG ever spent much time in Vermont, then I guess this isn't too likely because AR would have then, most likely, met RG in person, and known him as Brooke's stepdad.

I know, confusing!!

SailorMoon
07-10-2008, 04:43 PM
I don't know about ya'll, but I'm beginning to think if I put my "real name" in there it'd come up with a sexual meaning!!

:eek: I wonder if we replaced all of the words in those emails with the definitions from urbandictionary, if the emails would make more sense, or if it's coincidence that all these words seem to have some kind of sexual refference to them? :confused: IMO

becca
07-10-2008, 04:43 PM
And it is an opportunity for LE to glean more information from those in attendance and through observing interactions between people.
exactly, which is why I stay in the back and watch those in attendance.

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 04:44 PM
Thanks, jnodrog - does that mean Denise WAS working, but she just switched jobs recently?? If so, do you know how recently she switched jobs? Do you know if she was working on June 25?

Thanks for sharing your inside knowledge - it's so good to have a 'local' here!:blowkiss:
i have not found out if she was working that day. but she would be over 1/2 hr away at the new job instead of real close by.
i was told she swithched jobs over a month ago.

and i did post that at her old job she worked with MJ sister and that they were MJ and his sister very very very close, thats why i asked if a blond was with Denise at the hearing.

Allen

RR0004
07-10-2008, 04:44 PM
EM-Already corrected, but thanks anyway.

RR0004
07-10-2008, 04:47 PM
I thought that I read the mil made the call 12 hrs later.
A friend made the call...LE called back and spoke with the grandmother.

jnodrog
07-10-2008, 04:47 PM
i will also tell you that the info i got without names is that AR was never close to her bio dad, hes been gone since she was around 2yrs old. and also everyone said her bio dad lived in the area, well the info i got a couple days ago when all the name stuff started was she was never close to bio dad and he lives in NC or somewhere near there and is remarried.

Allen

Chica
07-10-2008, 04:48 PM
I don't know about ya'll, but I'm beginning to think if I put my "real name" in there it'd come up with a sexual meaning!!

:applause::applause::applause::applause:

Do tell, SailorMoon! heheheheh

RR0004
07-10-2008, 04:48 PM
If memory is correct I thought that Brooke had spent the night of the 24th MJ was taking her home and they stopped at the store (video.) I still think they went some place else to do the dirt deed.
The story went that MJ was leaving her at the store there to meet up with someone.

VTNance
07-10-2008, 04:49 PM
i have not found out if she was working that day. but she would be over 1/2 hr away at the new job instead of real close by.
i was told she swithched jobs over a month ago.

and i did post that at her old job she worked with MJ sister and that they were MJ and his sister very very very close, thats why i asked if a blond was with Denise at the hearing.

Allen


That's funny she just switched jobs shortly before this happened, very handy for MJ, since her old job was not more than about 7 minutes from her house.:waitasec:

Tell you one thing, I'll bet she's glad she isn't working in the town of Randolph right now. hmmm

Chica
07-10-2008, 04:49 PM
i have not found out if she was working that day. but she would be over 1/2 hr away at the new job instead of real close by.
i was told she swithched jobs over a month ago.

and i did post that at her old job she worked with MJ sister and that they were MJ and his sister very very very close, thats why i asked if a blond was with Denise at the hearing.

Allen

Thank you, Allen - much appreciated!!:blowkiss:

Tom'sGirl
07-10-2008, 04:50 PM
i have not found out if she was working that day. but she would be over 1/2 hr away at the new job instead of real close by.
i was told she swithched jobs over a month ago.

and i did post that at her old job she worked with MJ sister and that they were MJ and his sister very very very close, thats why i asked if a blond was with Denise at the hearing.
Well, we know by the photo in the news that she was talking with a blonde woman, don't know if they were together or not.

Busylady
07-10-2008, 04:50 PM
LOL I did and I am a little tart apparently lol.

I don't know about ya'll, but I'm beginning to think if I put my "real name" in there it'd come up with a sexual meaning!!

HarvestMoon
07-10-2008, 04:51 PM
exactly,... I just don't understand this family,.. IMO the only "normal" ones in here is Jim and Janet and Savanna,.. (IMO)

I agree.

Chica
07-10-2008, 04:53 PM
i will also tell you that the info i got without names is that AR was never close to her bio dad, hes been gone since she was around 2yrs old. and also everyone said her bio dad lived in the area, well the info i got a couple days ago when all the name stuff started was she was never close to bio dad and he lives in NC or somewhere near there and is remarried.

Allen

Thank you Allen - the more 'first-hand' info we can get the more likely we are to make some 'educated guesses' as to what was really going on!:clap:

Hailiejade77
07-10-2008, 04:54 PM
Thank you Allen - the more 'first-hand' info we can get the more likely we are to make some 'educated guesses' as to what was really going on!:clap:

Yes thank you Allen! I like the "locals" in take of everything because they are right there!

Have you been hearing anything about how AR or Juvie 2 are doing???? Did you know anyone that went to the funeral or wake?