View Full Version : Brooke Bennett, 12 years old Randolph VT #19
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 03:27 AM
Please continue here...
It's as though you guys are mindreaders -- the Brooke trip to Texas was on my mind. Was this RG/MJ manipulation of her myspace page or an actual trip in the planning stages?
RG says he has five years of porn on this "missing" computer from the safe. According to Jim Bennett, Cassandra and RG have been seperated for four years. Why did they seperate? Cassandra could have gotten her kids away from him for a good reason....only to walk right back into a similar situation with her sister. Perhaps that is why they were not speaking? Just thinking out loud, here.
FWIW, MJ was divorced from a previous wife at around the time of his 1993 conviction.
Divorce records 11 Aug 1992 (Rutland)
becca
07-11-2008, 07:53 AM
FWIW, MJ was divorced from a previous wife at around the time of his 1993 conviction.
Divorce records 11 Aug 1992 (Rutland)
any children from that union?
christine2448
07-11-2008, 08:15 AM
Family Tree.....I got some flack yesterday about insisting if we have a family tree it be done w/o last names & w/initials for minors. There are many who think it can't be done. I have thought about it and discussed it and I disagree. IMO, there must be someone here that can figure out how to make a family tree, starting w/Brooke (who this is about) and going out.
evelyn24
07-11-2008, 08:16 AM
SUPI
Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 131
I just wanted to say.....
I have just spent the last week reading everything I found on the site. I have read every posting and every thread. I have done a lot of thinking about this case and this poor child. There are a lot of things that are evident about what has happened and I'm sure the whole nasty story will come out in detail soon or at least during a trial. There are no words that I can find to express the disgust I feel for the happenings that brought the end to a young, blameless life.
One of the things that stands out strongly to me is the complete lack of care and supervision that has been shown by almost every adult in this sick family. I do not understand anyones expressed feelings for the perp and his friends. I do not understand how AR could have been left to the mercies of these pigs and not have anyone else notice. Mommy says she keeps close watch on her children. And yet allows the association of her precious child with a known sexual offender. I'm sure she allowed all of her children to be with this "Uncle".
Of course the ultimate responsibility belongs to the one who killed her. There is however, others who did nothing and by that lack of action allowed this to happen. These people must have the IQ of turnips to not see what was going on right in their own homes and families. It is hard for me to accept that the association of these perverts with their children was "no big deal".
This is another reason that these people need to be locked up forever. If parents, who are informed of the crimes of those around their kids, allow the association, then the state must make sure it can't happen. There is no cure for this and so for our children's safty they must be removed from society.
I want you all to know how much I have appreciated all of the work you have put into finding out the facts. I am very sorry that the news people haven't been on top of this story. America needs to wake up to the danger that these people represent to our children and thus to our society. Those that are not caught and put away will hurt untold number of children who grow up and hurt others possibly. The work that has been done on this sad story, on this site, is important for the future of our children. Let's hope that the deaths of our precious children, such as Jessica and Brooke will save other children from their fate.
I will be back tomorrow to check into any developments and to help all of you find out the facts. I need to digest and get over being so mad as much as I can so I can think clearly. I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate all of you and your hard work
Brilliant, thoughtful post.
I agree with you! :clap:
twinkiesmom
07-11-2008, 08:28 AM
From DeltaDawn
<<My point exactly..thses women are dumb, stupid, complacent..but they did not committ the crime. They are good as an educational point for parents as a wake up call..but to bash them does not cure the problem.
snip
He is to blame for Broole's death..he conned the state, he conned his wife, he conned his daughter.......lets not forget who the real criminal here is...>>
I think until the mothers are prosecuted for neglect or an accessory to the crime, this pattern will continue for decades to come unchecked. (No, not every case, just ones where females were aware of the abuse or RSO status but allowed access to child anyway.)
We know the men can't be rehabilitated, but in reality the women in these cases are often just as sick and are never held accountable.
I think the redactions in the affidavits cause some of the confusion . If some of those redactions are magnified by 300% it is possible to see that the word "dad" has been blocked from many passages. Keeping this revelation in mind helps to clarify many emails.
Another problem causing confusion is grammar; it is difficult at times to know who is being addressing when someone makes a statement such as this:
Babe I am a little worried about your mom and dad. I have been hearing some rumors that your mom has done some thinking about divorcing your dad. God honey that can't happen. I would be so, so sad if that happened. And your poor dad doesn't deserve that after everything he has done for you and your mom and [ ]. In my opinion he has given all of you a great life and nobody should have anything to complain about. Your mom has been taking some phone calls from your FATHER and I guess she hasn't done anything with him recently....
Because the word "dad" is always typed in small letters throughout the email correspondence from 8 May - 26 June, I believe we can infer that FATHER in the above paragraph is a reference to someone other than "dad".
I believe this distinction is important to keep in mind when trying to understand the dynamic between AR, Denise and MJ, as well as C and E.
Law Enforcement's belief that C and E are both MJ has been clearly stated. However it is very hard for me to understand how AR could be "in love" with E, could be terrorized by C, and could not have met C nor E, and -- moreover to have nurtured a belief that "dad" was neither C, nor E.
liljim
07-11-2008, 08:52 AM
dad refers to stepfather MJ, father refers to her biological father, when she says she was with someone else from the program but was too drugged to recognize them i believe it was MJ doing so to convince her of the "reality" of the "program", and i think it is likely he pretended to be C, the world travelling adventurer with a deep love for AR that looked forward to someday (after her training) being together with her.
becca
07-11-2008, 08:53 AM
I think the redactions in the affidavits cause some of the confusion . If some of those redactions are magnified by 300% it is possible to see that the word "dad" has been blocked from many passages. Keeping this revelation in mind helps to clarify many emails.
Another problem causing confusion is grammar; it is difficult at times to know who is being addressing when someone makes a statement such as this:
Because the word "dad" is always typed in small letters throughout the email correspondence from 8 May - 26 June, I believe we can infer that FATHER in the above paragraph is a reference to someone other than "dad".
I believe this distinction is important to keep in mind when trying to understand the dynamic between AR, Denise and MJ, as well as C and E.
Law Enforcement's belief that C and E are both MJ has been clearly stated. However it is very hard for me to understand how AR could be "in love" with E, could be terrorized by C, and could not have met C nor E, and -- moreover to have nurtured a belief that "dad" was neither C, nor E.
When you type it out that way, its really hard to understand how all this was believed by anyone. I realize this had been repeated over years , but it still boggles the mind that it was believed.
dad refers to stepfather MJ, father refers to her biological father, when she says she was with someone else from the program but was too drugged to recognize them i believe it was MJ doing so to convince her of the "reality" of the "program", and i think it is likely he pretended to be C, the world travelling adventurer with a deep love for AR that looked forward to someday (after her training) being together with her.
liljim, I agree. However I believe that E is the "world travelling adventurer" and that C is someone who is supposedly higher up in Breckenridge, perhaps the "president". (I do not believe a reference to US President holds). It seems clear to me when AR seeks C's assistance through the "phone company" that AR is clearly separating C from E in some sort of heirarchy.
Elley Mae
07-11-2008, 09:15 AM
Did I miss something, I was looking for the interview that for bio-dad did from his home where I thought he said,(Brooke was looking forward to the trip to see her ex-stepfather) I can not find it. While looking I found her myspace page and she list her age as 14?, and states she loves cj, any thoughts on this.
VTNance
07-11-2008, 09:32 AM
Did I miss something, I was looking for the interview that for bio-dad did from his home where I thought he said,(Brooke was looking forward to the trip to see her ex-stepfather) I can not find it. While looking I found her myspace page and she list her age as 14?, and states she loves cj, any thoughts on this.
I can't remember where, (Savanah's page?), but somewhere in their circle of friends on Myspace there is a CJ, looked like he was in Texas. Somebody she knew from her visits there? I don't think that page (that said "in love with CJ") had been changed in a long time, so doubtful that MJ wrote that to throw people off. i think that is the account that her bio dad banned her from using & changed the password some time back.
KTaylorsc
07-11-2008, 09:44 AM
I think the redactions in the affidavits cause some of the confusion . If some of those redactions are magnified by 300% it is possible to see that the word "dad" has been blocked from many passages. Keeping this revelation in mind helps to clarify many emails.
Another problem causing confusion is grammar; it is difficult at times to know who is being addressing when someone makes a statement such as this:
Because the word "dad" is always typed in small letters throughout the email correspondence from 8 May - 26 June, I believe we can infer that FATHER in the above paragraph is a reference to someone other than "dad".
I believe this distinction is important to keep in mind when trying to understand the dynamic between AR, Denise and MJ, as well as C and E.
Law Enforcement's belief that C and E are both MJ has been clearly stated. However it is very hard for me to understand how AR could be "in love" with E, could be terrorized by C, and could not have met C nor E, and -- moreover to have nurtured a belief that "dad" was neither C, nor E.
I agree.
Elley Mae
07-11-2008, 09:45 AM
I can't remember where, (Savanah's page?), but somewhere in their circle of friends on Myspace there is a CJ, looked like he was in Texas. Somebody she knew from her visits there? I don't think that page (that said "in love with CJ") had been changed in a long time, so doubtful that MJ wrote that to throw people off. i think that is the account that her bio dad banned her from using & changed the password some time back.
Makes sense that her father would have done so with some other things there as well, also noticed last active date was 3/20.If CJ is in Texas could be why she was looking forward to the trip. Thanks.
christine2448
07-11-2008, 09:45 AM
This was posted this morning in Up to the Minute Section The Establishment Paedophile: How a Monster hid in High Society (http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/826056/the-establishment-paedophile-how-a-monster-hid-in-high-society.thtml) it is everywhere...there are so many of these sick #@%$s out there! Look how much time he rec'd :eek: Long disturbing article at link.
Roger Took was sentenced this February to a minimum of four and a half years in prison as part of an indeterminate sentence for 17 other crimes relating to child abuse.
ETA..I removed most of my post...after reading it, it's just too much to have on the public board IMO. If you want to read it you can click the link. It is truly disturbing. The only reason I am posting is to show it is EVERYWHERE. These monsters are from all walks of life.
KTaylorsc
07-11-2008, 09:48 AM
liljim, I agree. However I believe that E is the "world travelling adventurer" and that C is someone who is supposedly higher up in Breckenridge, perhaps the "president". (I do not believe a reference to US President holds). It seems clear to me when AR seeks C's assistance through the "phone company" that AR is clearly separating C from E in some sort of heirarchy.
Yes...there are also other places in the e-mails where it seems that AR is the one in control telling C to have people on this and make sure that nobody hurts her or her family. I know she is a victim of all of this and I may get slapped around for saying this but some of her e-mails made her seem as if she were as manipulative as the others.
nanandjim
07-11-2008, 09:59 AM
Did I miss something, I was looking for the interview that for bio-dad did from his home where I thought he said,(Brooke was looking forward to the trip to see her ex-stepfather) I can not find it. While looking I found her myspace page and she list her age as 14?, and states she loves cj, any thoughts on this.
I think that 14 is the minimum age requirement to have a Myspace account. This particular account is probably the one that her bio dad shut down. I wonder why he didn't just delete it. If she states that she is in love witha "CJ." This could be the reason that she was visiting TX. I figured that her pedophile ex-stepfather showered her with gifts and attention; and that was her reason for wanting to visit. Maybe, it was for both reasons.
...I know she is a victim of all of this and I may get slapped around for saying this but some of her e-mails made her seem as if she were as manipulative as the others.
I agree. Currently I am under the opinion that MJ had groomed AR for a future prostitution/pornography ring. I believe this may have been the final stage of the Breckenridge program. Meanwhile, because of MJ's infatuation with early age (prior to "teenage" lets say), I believe he was in the process of "recruiting Brooke" while preparing AR for "farming out".
Because of AR's language throughout her emails (as well as her pleas and requests to C), I believe that AR was acquiescent to all the above.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 10:01 AM
This was posted this morning in Up to the Minute Section The Establishment Paedophile: How a Monster hid in High Society (http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/826056/the-establishment-paedophile-how-a-monster-hid-in-high-society.thtml) it is everywhere...there are so many of these sick #@%$s out there! Look how much time he rec'd :eek: Long disturbing article at link.
Roger Took was sentenced this February to a minimum of four and a half years in prison as part of an indeterminate sentence for 17 other crimes relating to child abuse.
Horribly disgusting,.. I feel like vomitting:puke:
KTaylorsc
07-11-2008, 10:03 AM
[QUOTE=ZOOL;2371453]I agree. Currently I am under the opinion that MJ had groomed AR for a future prostitution/pornography ring. I believe this may have been the final stage of the Breckenridge program. Meanwhile, because of MJ's infatuation with early age (prior to "teenage" lets say), I believe he was in the process of "recruiting Brooke" while preparing AR for "farming out".
could be that was the last 25% of her "training" is to be "farmed out"
good theory
Took's wife speaks on the BBC if you care to listen to her interview. Informative Married to a Paedophile (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/04/2008_28_thu.shtml)
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 10:05 AM
Does anyone know why the media isn't really covering this story at all? I know it is horrific and that it is an ongoing investigation but so is other stories they follow. It seems to me once they got their "perp" we hardly ever hear anymore unless the trial is on Court TV. Why is that?
KTaylorsc
07-11-2008, 10:06 AM
Does anyone know why the media isn't really covering this story at all? I know it is horrific and that it is an ongoing investigation but so is other stories they follow. It seems to me once they got their "perp" we hardly ever hear anymore unless the trial is on Court TV. Why is that?
That's frustrating. Personally, I think people are becoming desensitized to it all because it is happening so much.
christine2448
07-11-2008, 10:06 AM
Horribly disgusting,.. I feel like vomitting:puke:
I am with you. He is up for parole in 3 yrs :eek::eek::furious:
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 10:08 AM
I am with you. He is up for parole in 3 yrs :eek::eek::furious:
Are you freakin kidding me???? WTH is wrong with lawmakers that they would let some sick pervert back out on the streets???? I can't even believe it:eek:
nanandjim
07-11-2008, 10:09 AM
In my opinion EVERYONE failed A.R. and Brooke. It is easy to sit back and put the blame on Denise and Cassandra, but they did not do this horrible crime. Could they of stopped it from happening? Maybe, but so could Brookes father, Brookes stepmother, Brookes grandma, A.Rs bio dad, Jacques family members who had dealt with issues in the past, and the list goes on and on. The people in town who knew about Jacques history why where they not screaming from the roof tops, are they responsible also? ...
I agree with you, busylady. There is plenty of blame to go around. I think that we tend to blame the mothers because we expect them to be more vigilant than everyone else. What bothers me is Denise was extremely close to MJ's sister. Didn't any of his past history ever come out? Wouldn't the sister warn her SIL?
I've also questioned more than once why Brooke's bio dad would have permitted Brooke to be around MJ. I have to give him a break if he didn't know about him molesting the sister. If he only knew about the 18-year-old, he may have not realized that MJ was a pedophile. Even Denise may not have realized that he was a pedophile if she didn't know about the sister. To me, it was the sister's duty to tell Denise (since they were close).
I can well imagine that MJ glossed over the incident about the 18-year-old. He may have told Denise that she was a willing participant and then cried "rape" later. Who knows what he told her, but I will bet that it wasn't the truth.
Surely Denise should feel betrayed by MJ's sister with this information now being exposed. If so, why on earth would she even be around the sister? I guess that Denise has now put 2 and 2 together (all of the overt signs with AR coupled with the forced incest of his young sister).
I firmly believe that it was the sister (the blonde) crying at MJ's hearing. I just do not understand why Denise was even there unless she was enraged and wanted him to see her. She was emotionless according to the article, IIRC.
He may be up for parole, but you can be sure his ex-wife and the family are going to be there protesting it.
Paedophile: how a monster hid in high society (http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/826056/the-establishment-paedophile-how-a-monster-hid-in-high-society.thtml)
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 10:10 AM
That's frustrating. Personally, I think people are becoming desensitized to it all because it is happening so much.
More of a reason to KEEP it on the tv. Then maybe people will realize that it is EVERYWHERE and that it could even be in your own backyard so to speak.
It makes me scared to think what kind of world my two year old daughter is going to grow up in?!
christine2448
07-11-2008, 10:11 AM
Are you freakin kidding me???? WTH is wrong with lawmakers that they would let some sick pervert back out on the streets???? I can't even believe it:eek:
Nope, snip from article
Took is now appealing. Despite his indeterminate sentence, he will be eligible for parole in just three and a half years, having already served nearly a year on remand.
Again, not trying to go off topic from Brooke, trying to convey these pedos are all over the place. There are 130 being looked at that were on chats with this guy alone. It's so scary. PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN!
I want to quote one more line from this article...this shoulda been her first clue!!
When Pat met Took 25 years ago, she was divorced from her first husband by whom she had a son and two teenage daughters. Took, her junior by seven years, charmed Pat and paid flattering attention to her daughters, particularly Jennifer who was 13 at the time. Now Pat says wearily, but without a trace of self-pity, ‘He married me for my money. And for my children.’ It was Pat’s money that enabled Took to lead his double life, giving him a substantial Chelsea home as a base and all the attendant means and prosperous gloss to hide behind.
Pat’s family noticed that Took liked teenage girls. They treated it as a bit of a joke, which they feel sick about in hindsight, but none of them ever imagined his passion was for small children.
I really am having a hard time believing this woman, and the adults in Brooke's life, did not know what was going on. They need to be punished.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 10:15 AM
Nope, snip from article
All I have to say is that is truly truly horrible. Instead he should be stoned to death.
liljim
07-11-2008, 10:17 AM
i think part of the reason they arent covering it is because nothing new regarding the investigation has come out since the feds took over, but i still dont understand why the more explosive and shocking details from the latest affidavit have not been reported.
regarding brooke, MJ certainly may have had the idea in the past to do the same thing with brooke that he had done with AR, but i dont think anything in the evidence we have seen so far suggests that that was his plan recently. even tho AR told authorities that she thought brooke was to "initiated into the sex ring" that day, i dont think that is true at all.
i think AR may or may not have known MJ's true plan, but i dont see any room ofr doubt that Mj certainly didnt have any expectation that he was recruiting another girl that day. everything we know so far says that they saw her as a "threat" and something "had to be done". they were angry with her and her sister, and wanted to see brooke suffer and be degraded.
i dont think any sort of formal "breckenridge program" existed, he made it all up on the fly to satisfy whatever sick urges he had. it wasnt 25% this and 16% that, AR was never going to reach 75% approval and "graduate", it was all just a device so he could rape his stepdaughter.
Horribly disgusting,.. I feel like vomitting:puke:
Actually...our depraved society makes me "feel like vomitting".
I blame the United States Supreme Court Justices of thirty years ago for our current depravity. Although we were a nation of liberal sinners, we were still in control of laws regarding obscenity, lewdness, and pornography. Those erudite justices threw us a mean curve when they said that it was up to a local community to define what was acceptable, and what wasn't.
I wish I could remember the exact ruling, but... it's stupidity digusted me so much that I have blocked almost everything having to do with that kind of reasoning since then.
Elley Mae
07-11-2008, 10:18 AM
This was posted this morning in Up to the Minute Section The Establishment Paedophile: How a Monster hid in High Society (http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/826056/the-establishment-paedophile-how-a-monster-hid-in-high-society.thtml) it is everywhere...there are so many of these sick #@%$s out there! Look how much time he rec'd :eek: Long disturbing article at link.
Roger Took was sentenced this February to a minimum of four and a half years in prison as part of an indeterminate sentence for 17 other crimes relating to child abuse.
ETA..I removed most of my post...after reading it, it's just too much to have on the public board IMO. If you want to read it you can click the link. It is truly disturbing. The only reason I am posting is to show it is EVERYWHERE. These monsters are from all walks of life.
This is just heart wrenching,I sometimes can not understand how people can want or crave these things in life,I have been learning a lot from being on this site,some of it makes me ill. I have not went to the site in reference to the equipment because I have trouble with getting things like that out of my head and I have enough stuff there that I wish would go away. I do believe that we do need to be aware of people that are with in or society. Thanks
MistyGirl
07-11-2008, 10:23 AM
I agree with you, busylady. There is plenty of blame to go around. I think that we tend to blame the mothers because we expect them to be more vigilant than everyone else. What bothers me is Denise was extremely close to MJ's sister. Didn't any of his past history ever come out? Wouldn't the sister warn her SIL?
I've also questioned more than once why Brooke's bio dad would have permitted Brooke to be around MJ. I have to give him a break if he didn't know about him molesting the sister. If he only knew about the 18-year-old, he may have not realized that MJ was a pedophile. Even Denise may not have realized that he was a pedophile if she didn't know about the sister. To me, it was the sister's duty to tell Denise (since they were close).
I can well imagine that MJ glossed over the incident about the 18-year-old. He may have told Denise that she was a willing participant and then cried "rape" later. Who knows what he told her, but I will bet that it wasn't the truth.
Surely Denise should feel betrayed by MJ's sister with this information now being exposed. If so, why on earth would she even be around the sister? I guess that Denise has now put 2 and 2 together (all of the overt signs with AR coupled with the forced incest of his young sister).
I firmly believe that it was the sister (the blonde) crying at MJ's hearing. I just do not understand why Denise was even there unless she was enraged and wanted him to see her. She was emotionless according to the article, IIRC.
Great point about MJ sister...I have this sick feeling in my gut this story is going to be much worse then we think....BIG FAMILY SECERTS......could it be possible that MJ's sister & MJ were still sexual with each other??? Some times the abused feel very loyal to their abuser and it can go on even as adults......pure speculation but just a theroy as to why MJ's sister wouldn't have warned Denise..maybe because she was still "with" MJ so to speak and it was continuing...she may have been protecting him??????
DianeB
07-11-2008, 10:31 AM
I don't use myspace so haven't been able to do much exploring there, but I have a question for those who have.
The myspace account with the fake 'skittlemeup' posts - is there any evidence that Brooke EVER used that account herself?
miss lisa
07-11-2008, 10:34 AM
MJ's verbage in the emails could be very interesting as compared to the slang in the urban dictionary:
Africa - After ****king, Rest In a Cool Area
:eek:Safari - 1.When you go online to look at no specific type of porn and you just let the links take you through an erotic maze of spyware infected porn sites.
:eek:2. Starting an erotic internet adventure by going to a free gallary porn site and clicking on a minimum of ten links and/or thumbnails before your allowed to stop and choose which site you want best.
Hunt - someone (male) with long hair and acting like a c**t.(hairyc**t=hunt)
there maybe something to this lingo. just like the "skittles" (this one I knew before going to the dictionary).
Vegas Bride
07-11-2008, 10:36 AM
Great point about MJ sister...I have this sick feeling in my gut this story is going to be much worse then we think....BIG FAMILY SECERTS......could it be possible that MJ's sister & MJ were still sexual with each other??? Some times the abused feel very loyal to their abuser and it can go on even as adults......pure speculation but just a theroy as to why MJ's sister wouldn't have warned Denise..maybe because she was still "with" MJ so to speak and it was continuing...she may have been protecting him??????
Something I'm wondering also, does his sister have children and if so, did she let MJ be around them?
It's been said MJ's father is now dead, what about his mother is she still living?
VB
christine2448
07-11-2008, 10:38 AM
MJ's verbage in the emails could be very interesting as compared to the slang in the urban dictionary:
Africa - After ****king, Rest In a Cool Area
:eek:Safari - 1.When you go online to look at no specific type of porn and you just let the links take you through an erotic maze of spyware infected porn sites.
:eek:2. Starting an erotic internet adventure by going to a free gallary porn site and clicking on a minimum of ten links and/or thumbnails before your allowed to stop and choose which site you want best.
Hunt - someone (male) with long hair and acting like a c**t.(hairyc**t=hunt)
there maybe something to this lingo. just like the "skittles" (this one I knew before going to the dictionary).
Other posters have researched words on that site and seems the concensus is you can put just about anything in that dictionary and you will continue to get the same results...that is not reliable...anyone can post on there, a lot of it is made up BS. IMO, FWIW.
miss lisa
07-11-2008, 10:42 AM
Other posters have researched words on that site and seems the concensus is you can put just about anything in that dictionary and you will continue to get the same results...that is not reliable...anyone can post on there, a lot of it is made up BS. IMO, FWIW.
So you believe that there is no correlation with the word Safari:confused: I find that particular one very telling.....
christine2448
07-11-2008, 10:43 AM
So you believe that there is no correlation with the word Safari:confused: I find that particular one very telling.....
You think these entire emails were written in code?
cheko1
07-11-2008, 10:47 AM
i think part of the reason they arent covering it is because nothing new regarding the investigation has come out since the feds took over, but i still dont understand why the more explosive and shocking details from the latest affidavit have not been reported.
regarding brooke, MJ certainly may have had the idea in the past to do the same thing with brooke that he had done with AR, but i dont think anything in the evidence we have seen so far suggests that that was his plan recently. even tho AR told authorities that she thought brooke was to "initiated into the sex ring" that day, i dont think that is true at all.
i think AR may or may not have known MJ's true plan, but i dont see any room ofr doubt that Mj certainly didnt have any expectation that he was recruiting another girl that day. everything we know so far says that they saw her as a "threat" and something "had to be done". they were angry with her and her sister, and wanted to see brooke suffer and be degraded.
i dont think any sort of formal "breckenridge program" existed, he made it all up on the fly to satisfy whatever sick urges he had. it wasnt 25% this and 16% that, AR was never going to reach 75% approval and "graduate", it was all just a device so he could rape his stepdaughter.
The media may not have much to work with. The FBI may of asked all family members to not speak with reporters. Community outrage etc etc
I think MJ had AR programmed to the hilt to cover his azz in the event he was found out. He probably threatened to kill the entire family & make her watch / then blame her. Horrible things only his perverted, twisted mind could come up with. MJ COA at any & all costs.
miss lisa
07-11-2008, 10:48 AM
You think these entire emails were written in code?
I certainly am not saying it absolutely is but to an extent I do believe it is very possible. example: "skittles" "safari" "panama".
If it is a porn ring that is involved here. I do believe that they do have their "own" verbage and code that they use with each other that very possibly COULD carry over into communications with others.
There are thumbs up and thumbs down on how many agree or disagree with the "slang" on each definition in the urban dictionary.
cheko1
07-11-2008, 10:55 AM
I've always thought that RSO need a tatoo put on there nose where the people of the world could see they were RSO. So there would be no doubt who or what the charge had been.
If these perverts can't be trusted & many decide not to register, it would be a very simple way to keep track of them. Harsh punishment maybe / but would save needless deaths.
miss lisa
07-11-2008, 11:01 AM
I've always thought that RSO need a tatoo put on there nose where the people of the world could see they were RSO. So there would be no doubt who or what the charge had been.
If these perverts can't be trusted & many decide not to register, it would be a very simple way to keep track of them. Harsh punishment maybe / but would save needless deaths.
I totally agree! If they are going to be set free in society then they need to be physically identifiable as a sex offender and if they are a child predator. AND with some form of implant that keeps the law informed as to their whereabouts. Our women and children need to be safe and aware of what & who is around them.
becca
07-11-2008, 11:07 AM
I totally agree! If they are going to be set free in society then they need to be physically identifiable as a sex offender and if they are a child predator. AND with some form of implant that keeps the law informed as to their whereabouts. Our women and children need to be safe and aware of what & who is around them.
I can just see the ACLU with that.... not that I would care, but I can just see it.
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 11:12 AM
We now have a name of the probation officer who said MJ was a "probation success story".
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380541,00.html
(snip)
Corrections Commissioner Rob Hofmann said that a probation officer had recommended in 2004 that Jacques be discharged from probation, after not supporting a release request the year before.
"Mr. Jacques has satisfied and fulfilled all case specific conditions of probation put in place to reduce his risk of re-offense," wrote probation officer Richard Kearney.
KTaylorsc
07-11-2008, 11:13 AM
jeez! alot of people pass a drivers test...doesn't mean they can drive though.
miss lisa
07-11-2008, 11:13 AM
I can just see the ACLU with that.... not that I would care, but I can just see it.
Yes they would have a FIELD DAY but OUR children are dying each and everyday.... I think we as a country need to choose the lesser of the two evils....
liljim
07-11-2008, 11:15 AM
The media may not have much to work with.
there is plenty of very telling information in the affidavits that are public that has not been discussed AT ALL in the media. the media has reported on other information from those same affidavits, but made no mention of much of the most "interesting" stuff (for lack of a better term).
lightinthedark
07-11-2008, 11:17 AM
there is plenty of very telling information in the affidavits that are public that has not been discussed AT ALL in the media. the media has reported on other information from those same affidavits, but made no mention of much of the most "interesting" stuff (for lack of a better term).
I've been wondering why they haven't reported on that myself. :waitasec:
Perhaps because the content was a bit too graphic?
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 11:23 AM
I don't use myspace so haven't been able to do much exploring there, but I have a question for those who have.
The myspace account with the fake 'skittlemeup' posts - is there any evidence that Brooke EVER used that account herself?
not sure considering that all her myspaces are private. I know that the FBI will be able to tell when it was created,.. where it was created,.. and when and where it was accessed last. I am pretty sure they said it was accessed from MJ's house after she was reported missing. (accessed by MJ to look like she "ran off")
becca
07-11-2008, 11:23 AM
Yes they would have a FIELD DAY but OUR children are dying each and everyday.... I think we as a country need to choose the lesser of the two evils....
I agree, but women need to pay attention to the warning signs too, they also need to be more diligent about the people around their children.
liljim
07-11-2008, 11:23 AM
I've been wondering why they haven't reported on that myself. :waitasec:
Perhaps because the content was a bit too graphic?
that could explain some of it, and quite possibly some of AR's statements arent being reported because she can be considered another minor victim, but something as simple as where MJ refers to brooke as a threat, and says "this has to be done", i have not seen that reported anywhere and i have REALLY looked.
thats why it is annoying me that they have only referred to this as a kidnapping in "an attempt to initiate brooke into the sex ring", i realize that is what AR said but the affidavit that is public and contains the emails strongly suggests otherwise, there is no reason i know of that the media cannot report that, yet they are not doing so.
i have not yet seen a good explanation for this.
Carrington
07-11-2008, 11:23 AM
Just my opinion, but, I am not looking forward to Denise and Cassandra raking in millions from the state for their own blindness and complicity. I don't believe James Bennett deserves the money either.
I do not think Denise has a low IQ, she has and had good paying jobs, with some authority. Cassandra and grandma may be a different story.
I do believe the state is responsible for releasing him, but I don't want to see the family profit. The only way I can see this not happening is to charge Denise and Cassandra for negligence.
VTNance
07-11-2008, 11:25 AM
there is plenty of very telling information in the affidavits that are public that has not been discussed AT ALL in the media. the media has reported on other information from those same affidavits, but made no mention of much of the most "interesting" stuff (for lack of a better term).
I feel they are keeping it quiet at the request of LE. If the lurid and graphic details become widely known... in our sensationalist media....it seems like it would be a HUGE story... by the time it gets to trial, the creeps might be able to claim they could not get fair trial because the case is so notoriously well-known. So, that's a good thing. I hope they dot every "I" and cross every "t" so there's no way any case against any of them can be thrown out on technicalities.
I too have been surprised though, that even somewhat locally, a lot of people don't know the really horrible details, because they haven't read the affadavits, only the news stories.
becca
07-11-2008, 11:25 AM
I've been wondering why they haven't reported on that myself. :waitasec:
Perhaps because the content was a bit too graphic?
Mainstream media will only go so far in reporting the "details". These will make a grown man sick... so until trial I don't look for them to report on the facts as we know them.
Amster
07-11-2008, 11:25 AM
There was a mention on Fox News that the e-mails might be written in code.....but, I only heard it once.
A.R. in one e-mail did seem to be issuing orders. I don't know what's up with that. Almost makes me think she didn't write it....
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 11:26 AM
You think these entire emails were written in code?
Could be completely possible considering if anyone else accessed the emails they would have no idea what they were actual talking about. Say a passerby glanced at either of them looking at their emails,.. they would have no clue or no red flags. But if you say what some of these words mean on the screen you would instantly take a double take I would think. JMO
miss lisa
07-11-2008, 11:26 AM
I agree, but women need to pay attention to the warning signs too, they also need to be more diligent about the people around their children.
Absolutely but there needs to be other barriers as well...
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 11:27 AM
I've always thought that RSO need a tatoo put on there nose where the people of the world could see they were RSO. So there would be no doubt who or what the charge had been.
If these perverts can't be trusted & many decide not to register, it would be a very simple way to keep track of them. Harsh punishment maybe / but would save needless deaths.
That is EXACTLY what they should do. If they are allowed to walk around with the rest of us normal peole we should be able to tell who is one and who isn't!
VTNance
07-11-2008, 11:34 AM
that could explain some of it, and quite possibly some of AR's statements arent being reported because she can be considered another minor victim, but something as simple as where MJ refers to brooke as a threat, and says "this has to be done", i have not seen that reported anywhere and i have REALLY looked.
thats why it is annoying me that they have only referred to this as a kidnapping in "an attempt to initiate brooke into the sex ring", i realize that is what AR said but the affidavit that is public and contains the emails strongly suggests otherwise, there is no reason i know of that the media cannot report that, yet they are not doing so.
i have not yet seen a good explanation for this.
I am also annoyed that media and so forth keep referring to it as a "myspace"-related case, and warning that we need to keep our kids safe on the internet. WE DO, but Brooke was not kidnapped by anyone she met on MySpace, if anything, in conjunction with this case we should be warning about keeping children away from known SOs and being aware that dangerous people can be in your own family. MJ manipulated Brooke's account, she did not run off with an internet "friend"!
Medea
07-11-2008, 11:39 AM
The media is lazy,they report what AP reports or what they pull up on google. I found out after following a few cases that very few at least TV reporters read actual documents, that is why inaccuracies exist and then they are compounded by being reported multiple times....everyone reports what everyone else reports and no one has the time or money these days to dig deeper. The local papers usually do the best job.
I don't think AR is smart enough to write her emails in code, but that's just me.
IMO the Feds released the affidavidts for a reason, they could easily have filed them under seal because they involve multiple minor victims, they didn't.
liljim
07-11-2008, 11:40 AM
i dont think there is any code present in the emails, these people are not that bright.
i can never recall the media as a whole having delicate sensibilities regarding releasing graphic details in cases like this. and as i mentioned, there are details that are not graphic that seem worthy of mention.
maybe i dont follow trials closely often enough and my impression is wrong, but i can recall many terrible cases, in the past and recently, where grisly details were broken (long before trials) as affidavits became public.
liljim
07-11-2008, 11:42 AM
we are on the same page medea, i keep checking all the vermont paper and tv websites thinking some local reporter will break this stuff, nothing yet that i have seen.
VTNance
07-11-2008, 11:42 AM
i can never recall the media as a whole having delicate sensibilities regarding releasing graphic details in cases like this. and as i mentioned, there are details that are not graphic that seem worthy of mention.
Know what'cha mean Liljim, ... that seems strange to me to. I can only think (HOPE?) that it has to do with the ongoing investigation..... I wanna see people arrested and locked up, EVERYONE involved. :furious:
lightinthedark
07-11-2008, 11:47 AM
I am also annoyed that media and so forth keep referring to it as a "myspace"-related case, and warning that we need to keep our kids safe on the internet. WE DO, but Brooke was not kidnapped by anyone she met on MySpace, if anything, in conjunction with this case we should be warning about keeping children away from known SOs and being aware that dangerous people can be in your own family. MJ manipulated Brooke's account, she did not run off with an internet "friend"!
I agree. Though I agree the media shouldn't report everything in the affidavits, they should at least be keeping people on the "right track". The people that are just watching the news following the case have a whole different story than we do (at least from the news I've seen). I figured Nancy Grace would be all over this, as she was with the polygamist story.
VTNance
07-11-2008, 11:49 AM
I don't think AR is smart enough to write her emails in code, but that's just me.
AR's mails seemed real to me, they had spelling errors and such that seemed consistent with being written by a schoolgirl, a different voice than the others from "C" etc..... can't imagine MJ sitting thinking all that out when he was trying to cover his azz.... or that he wrote months of fake e-mails in advance..... If he had been thinking that far ahead he would have just deleted/destroyed them!!!! Thank goodness he wasn't that smart
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 11:50 AM
DA's will only put the least amount of info into affidavits necessary to obtain an arrest. They will not show all their cards before trial. There is much more info that hasn't been made public.
Investigative reporting has been gone for years now. Reporters and editors are too scared of the legal liability involved in reporting their own info they obtain. They only report verbatim quotes and releases given to them by the authorities and official sources involved.
Carrington
07-11-2008, 11:51 AM
The interviews with the families will start when the tabs and mainstream magazines pony up the big bucks. Bidding wars going on now.
IMO
CarpeDiem
07-11-2008, 11:55 AM
i dont think there is any code present in the emails, these people are not that bright.
I agree with both you and medea on that point. :rolleyes:
cheko1
07-11-2008, 11:56 AM
I can just see the ACLU with that.... not that I would care, but I can just see it.
It would cause alot of craziness for sure.......ACLU at there finest.
But sure would let people know who is who & might prevent some of these horrendous things from happening.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 12:00 PM
Quote:
"I don't think AR is smart enough to write her emails in code, but that's just me."
If she was "brought up" hearing these codes from the time she was 9 she would be able to. JMO
lightinthedark
07-11-2008, 12:02 PM
Any new news on the feds landfill search? Think they will tell the media if they find/found something?
Medea
07-11-2008, 12:03 PM
Did any of the local posters ever say how long they thought AR and Juvenile 2 had been dating? THat would be a pretty good clue as to the liklihood that he had any idea what was going on or was just a dumb kid dating the wrong girl.
lighthouselover
07-11-2008, 12:04 PM
AR's mails seemed real to me, they had spelling errors and such that seemed consistent with being written by a schoolgirl, a different voice than the others from "C" etc..... can't imagine MJ sitting thinking all that out when he was trying to cover his azz.... or that he wrote months of fake e-mails in advance..... If he had been thinking that far ahead he would have just deleted/destroyed them!!!! Thank goodness he wasn't that smart
The MySpace entry looked like it was written by a schoolgirl too. And we know it wasn't, it was a grown man.
I'm not so sure that AR wrote ALL of the emails herself. We also only have what LE was able to recover from the MJ's work laptop. There's no telling what was on the home PC. (That hasn't been recovered yet has it?)
IMO, it looks like not only was MJ setting up the boyfriend, he may have also been setting up AR to take the blame for Brooke's murder.
JMO
HarvestMoon
07-11-2008, 12:08 PM
The interviews with the families will start when the tabs and mainstream magazines pony up the big bucks. Bidding wars going on now.
IMO
I stand beside the poster who said they did not want to see either Denise or Cassandra make any money from this. Nada, zero, not even a dime.:mad: Nor the Grandma or bio Father for that matter.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 12:12 PM
The MySpace entry looked like it was written by a schoolgirl too. And we know it wasn't, it was a grown man.
I'm not so sure that AR wrote ALL of the emails herself. We also only have what LE was able to recover from the MJ's work laptop. There's no telling what was on the home PC. (That hasn't been recovered yet has it?)
IMO, it looks like not only was MJ setting up the boyfriend, he may have also been setting up AR to take the blame for Brooke's murder.
JMO
You know come to think of it. MJ did say that he had all of the girls give him their myspace accounts passwords to be on his computer. Maybe that goes with emails as well,...:waitasec: It COULD be possible that some of them weren't from AR. She did say that she wrote them. But maybe the ones we aren't getting she said she didn't. JMO Who really knows?
nanandjim
07-11-2008, 12:12 PM
Who is Corey, mentioned in the emails? Was "Sam" supposed to be Juv 2's friend? Had Brooke ever met him?
After reading the emails, I think that MJ was up in his room perhaps setting up the machine or getting ready for Brooke. I think that he came downstairs and that AR helped him subdue and tie up Brooke. I do not think that Brooke just willingly went upstairs with him.
I think that AR was minimizing her role whenever possible.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 12:13 PM
I stand beside the poster who said they did not want to see either Denise or Cassandra make any money from this. Nada, zero, not even a dime.:mad: Nor the Grandma or bio Father for that matter.
Here is what gets me,.. the pastor said that funeral and flowers were donated. And then on some news websites there is a "donation set up" to help pay for the funeral costs. I don't understand that if it is already paid for?! :confused:
Maybe they mean cost to actual bury. But I was under the impression they can't bury until they are paid.
liljim
07-11-2008, 12:13 PM
ok, the times argus site reported a story with virtually all the details from the emails and its still up on their site, that is the only place i have found them.
they didnt make any commentary on them, just reported them in a sort of bullet list.
Everywhere you look on these threads you see that the internet played a big roll in this and other cases of it's type. It seems to me that it is past time that the problem is addressed. Here are some ideas and I'd like to see what all of you think.
We have special courts to take care of various subjects such as bankruptcy, divorce, and other crimes. Why not a special court for SO so that the judges, lawyers, and others will be up to speed on this crime, criminal, and law?
Hackers have brought down big sites on the internet such as Ebay and Amazon. Why can't these molester sites be taken down when found? Maybe form a national task force that will police the internet and take the offender sites down.
Credit cards enable these POS to make purchases for pictures, and "tools" of their trade. MJ purchased some "tools" for use on his victims in this case and I think he is selling too. Why not have credit card companies refuse cards to those who have been convicted of this crime? Using offenders lists this should be pretty easy. This way they will be slowed down and the US mail will have more opportunities to track these POS.
AT&T and AOL block child porn sites and this needs to spread to all providers.
When found, I don't care what state they are from, we need a National Jessica's law. Also when parents allow their children to be with SO on a published list they too should be held legally responsible.
These are just a couple of ideas. I'd like feedback please. I am planning to take the final ideas to my State Rep. I'm tired of reading about the hell our children have experienced due to complacency. Thanks for your time.
lightinthedark
07-11-2008, 12:20 PM
The MySpace entry looked like it was written by a schoolgirl too. JMO
When I read the Myspace entry, I felt the wording wasn't of a 12 year old girl. I mean, sure, there were shortcuts for words used, but the flow of it seemed a bit advanced. I have neices and nephews in their teens (very intelligent at that) and still, the flow of their emails are choppy including a lot of mispelled words, on top of shortcut words. Teenagers are so quick when they type and rarely re-read for acuracy, it's type and send. I think MJ thought too much about the wording, making sure to use the short cuts for every word possible, which is why they found he went into edit the blog after he wrote it. Just my opinion.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 12:20 PM
I agree with both you and medea on that point. :rolleyes:Me...four! The only "code" I saw was a reference to the "phone company" which I would guess is some fictional faction of the "Breck" group.
I think the reason that Africa and Safaris were mentioned is to twist AR's perception of the fake E into believing he was a world traveler plus to explain why she had not met him yet. Nothing more. It was pure fiction to "entice" AR to keep believing he was this exotic man who was to be her husband soon. (Remember the baby dream.) Even Scott Peterson created that whole story about being in Europe for the same reason...to make him seem more "interesting and well traveled" to Amber.
VTNance
07-11-2008, 12:21 PM
The MySpace entry looked like it was written by a schoolgirl too. And we know it wasn't, it was a grown man.
Hmmm, I thought the MySpace entry sounded like it was written by a man trying to sound like a schoolgirl, frankly. It sounded very different from the AR mails.
IMO, it looks like not only was MJ setting up the boyfriend, he may have also been setting up AR to take the blame for Brooke's murder.
JMO
agreed!
KTaylorsc
07-11-2008, 12:22 PM
When I read the Myspace entry, I felt the wording wasn't of a 12 year old girl. I mean, sure, there were shortcuts for words used, but the flow of it seemed a bit advanced. I have neices and nephews in their teens (very intelligent at that) and still, the flow of their emails are choppy including a lot of mispelled words, on top of shortcut words. Teenagers are so quick when they type and rarely re-read for acuracy, it's type and send. I think MJ thought too much about the wording, making sure to use the short cuts for every word possible, which is why they found he went into edit the blog after he wrote it. Just my opinion.
I thought that too. Like it was deliberate. Also the part that said "if people only knew the real me" like he was making Brooke out to be a bad person when in fact he was the bad person.
vermontn03
07-11-2008, 12:24 PM
NAME Date of Birth CITY COUNTY WANTED TREATMENT STATUS HIGH RISK MURRAY, RICHARD (http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/servlet/SOR?id=X000004961)02-21-1948 RUTLAND RUTLAND NO UNAVAILABLE YES
He is from the rutland area
http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/images/X000004961.jpeg
This man is missing, from probatioon and parole, in Burlington, VT. I do not see anything on the news yet but I when I see something I will post it. He has been missing since monday. He is very Dangerous.
http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/servlet/SOR
miss lisa
07-11-2008, 12:24 PM
This whole thing has just bothered me terribly and i never meant to offend anyone by my strong opinions when I first signed on. If I did I apologize. But I have dreamed about this poor child since she went missing. I try and eliminate the images in my head of Brooke's final hours but I just can't, I can't. I know that there are animals out there in our world that thrive on behaviors that in my wildest dreams I could not imagine, but though I know it exists, I will never in my life understand it, never. Brooke was 12 years old. AR who was also a victim of this man was 9 years old when her abuse started. How can you take away their innocence??!! How?? Brooke’s beautiful eyes will forever haunt me. We become immune in some sense to all the violence in our society...but there are some cases that capture your heart for one reason or another. Natalee captured my heart from day one. Another was Jennifer Moore, the teen who went clubbing in New York and was found in a dumpster days later. And now Brooke. Who knows why we are drawn to a certain case when there are so many. There are just cases we will never forget for the rest of our lives and this is one of them for me. I just don't understand why this happens.
I do believe in the death penalty. I really do. Especially for child rapists! I know a lot of you probably disagree with me and can't justify the collective sanctioning of another's life with no consequences. However...I have to tell you...if anyone ever hurt my my son or daughter like they hurt Brooke, I would kill them. Send me to jail...I couldn't function without them anyway and I understand I would be convicted of murder...I could live with that death on my own shoulders and still face my Maker and His judgement. It would be a personal decision with consequences I was willing to accept both here and in the next world and not a collective judgement with no personal consequences...does that make sense? But if I wasn't given the opportunity to issue my own judgement that I would take responsibility for...I want my government to put him to death… not on death row...isolated...cushioned...spending millions of our tax dollars studying law books and making appeals or I would want him smack dab in the middle of the prison population amongst other predators like himself...and let him see how long he could hold his own. Never to step out a free man. I could live with locking away the culprits in jail....culprits like Brooke's perpetrators forever...and leaving the rest for God. Live or die by the hands of your peers who would also take responsibility for their actions as I would.....either would seem a more appropriate punishment than the living safe and sound on death row for decades.
If think every adult who knew ANTHING at all about MJ, AR and RG should be punished for failing Brooke (and AR) beginning with her mother, aunt grandmother and possibly even dad. Now I'm certainly not giving MJ and RG a pass...I stated above what I truly believe should happen to them. They are the be all end all of this horrid reality but they had people who enabled them to be what they are. We as a country need to start giving the victims the RIGHTS that they so justly deserve. Child rapists have no rights. Our country has gotten so confused with the help of the ACLU over who has rights. Child rapists and child murderers have no rights! Our children have no rights in their hands.
Sorry for the rant! I will step off my soap box now. Just know that my heart aches for OUR CHILDREN! We need to give their RIGHTS back to them. Give them a voice again. Give Brooke a VOICE!
Medea
07-11-2008, 12:28 PM
Everywhere you look on these threads you see that the internet played a big roll in this and other cases of it's type. It seems to me that it is past time that the problem is addressed. Here are some ideas and I'd like to see what all of you think.
We have special courts to take care of various subjects such as bankruptcy, divorce, and other crimes. Why not a special court for SO so that the judges, lawyers, and others will be up to speed on this crime, criminal, and law?
Hackers have brought down big sites on the internet such as Ebay and Amazon. Why can't these molester sites be taken down when found? Maybe form a national task force that will police the internet and take the offender sites down.
Credit cards enable these POS to make purchases for pictures, and "tools" of their trade. MJ purchased some "tools" for use on his victims in this case and I think he is selling too. Why not have credit card companies refuse cards to those who have been convicted of this crime? Using offenders lists this should be pretty easy. This way they will be slowed down and the US mail will have more opportunities to track these POS.
AT&T and AOL block child porn sites and this needs to spread to all providers.
When found, I don't care what state they are from, we need a National Jessica's law. Also when parents allow their children to be with SO on a published list they too should be held legally responsible.
These are just a couple of ideas. I'd like feedback please. I am planning to take the final ideas to my State Rep. I'm tired of reading about the hell our children have experienced due to complacency. Thanks for your time.
I am 100% for a special court for sexual offenses, they are a unique crime with a generally unique set of evidentiary challenges....no witnesses, physical evidence either lacking or explained as 'consensual', victim blaming is common, many misperceptions, etc.
I am not really supportive of a national jessica's law because almost all child sex offenders are someone the child knows, not a John Cuey who steals the child from her bed and then kills her. There usually isn't DNA, its the child's word against the adult...the victims are often troubled themselves, making them not always the most credible...I think this will have the opposite affect...fewer cases successfully prosecuted.
You will never be able to get support for refusing credit cards to sex offenders.
As a not very computer savvy person myself, I also don't understand why these sites can't be hacked, blocked and taken down, whether its a matter of resources or technology.
I also have a big problem with plea bargains, because they allow the rapist/sex offender to get his or her actual crimes out of the record...he's guilty of 1st degree sexual assault but pleads to 3rd degree...so the truth of his crime is not really on his record. I'm not sure how to fix this, though.
I also think we need more public education, people don't understand sex crimes. Everyone is so surprised that Jacques has a nice house because we all still assume that these guys are the dregs of society, even though intellectually we know that is false. All of the myths about sex crimes still persist and until we fix that the DA's in all states are not going to have confidence they can convict these dirtbags on the top charges.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 12:36 PM
Everywhere you look on these threads you see that the internet played a big roll in this and other cases of it's type. It seems to me that it is past time that the problem is addressed. Here are some ideas and I'd like to see what all of you think.
We have special courts to take care of various subjects such as bankruptcy, divorce, and other crimes. Why not a special court for SO so that the judges, lawyers, and others will be up to speed on this crime, criminal, and law? The laws need to change before we can consider "special courts". There are too many loopholes, the lack of consistent laws, and the means to enforce them.
Hackers have brought down big sites on the internet such as Ebay and Amazon. Why can't these molester sites be taken down when found? Maybe form a national task force that will police the internet and take the offender sites down. They are doing this on a daily basis now. As you can see, it is only scratching the surface. As soon as one site is down another opens. Child porn is a billion dollar business and as long as there are people willing to pay...they will find ways to avoid the law. They can afford to hire the most computer savy individuals to insure they can continue.
Credit cards enable these POS to make purchases for pictures, and "tools" of their trade. MJ purchased some "tools" for use on his victims in this case and I think he is selling too. Why not have credit card companies refuse cards to those who have been convicted of this crime? Using offenders lists this should be pretty easy. This way they will be slowed down and the US mail will have more opportunities to track these POS. They will simply steal CCs (credit cards) and use those. They already create fake identities to continue their practices. There is no way to prevent them from getting CCs after a conviction. (I am sure there is also a law protecting their rights to have credit, too!)
AT&T and AOL block child porn sites and this needs to spread to all providers. This will never work. Looks good on paper and sounds good in the media...but it will do no good in stopping them. You put up one block and they find a way around it. Remember, they hire the best to keep them up and running. Time is money for them. It is a business.
When found, I don't care what state they are from, we need a National Jessica's law. Also when parents allow their children to be with SO on a published list they too should be held legally responsible. I agree that the laws need to be changed to include people who knowingly subject children to people who have already been deemed to be a danger to their children. The law should also include people like the man who did the home inspect on MJ and knew he was breaking his parole/probation by living with children under the age of 16 yo. The laws are in place...but not being enforced.
These are just a couple of ideas. I'd like feedback please. I am planning to take the final ideas to my State Rep. I'm tired of reading about the hell our children have experienced due to complacency. Thanks for your time.Sorry to burst your bubble here. We need new laws, old laws revamped, and ways to fund them being enforced. It comes down to manpower and money. I wouldn't be running to the State Reps just yet...unless it is to demand THEY come up with some money to tackle these issues.
liljim
07-11-2008, 12:37 PM
yeah i will never understand it either.
i used to post on a messageboard dedicated to mixed martial arts and boxing. fairly regularly people would embed videos of street fights, or clips from the news where innocent people are attacked and beaten up.
while i can tolerate the fairly high level of violence inherent in mixed martial arts and boxing (because it is fair and agreed upon between the two parties), i cannot stomach the violence in those public street fight/assault videos at all. it makes me feel very unsettled and frustrated.
thankfully this is because i am sympathetic to the victims and cannot stomach seeing people victimized. to think that so many people can watch those videos and laugh at them, or even get a thrill out of them, is foreign to me and very sad.
just like trying to imagine sexually assaulting someone seems impossible to me, to be able to enjoy that kind of thing while the other person is right there terrified, its so terrible that i really do feel bad for anyone that is wired that way. that doesnt make them any less vile, and certainly doesnt mitigate my feelings that they need to be locked away for life.
SailorMoon
07-11-2008, 12:38 PM
I agree. I have a 14yo son who uses spelling on his text messages and myspace that make me cringe. Like, uh, every word is misspelled- but purposefully. The skittle me up message that he wrote I could tell that he wrote it. He only abreviated words like I do, like 2 instead of to, and 4 instead of for. Like I said if you have a teen that uses that tm spelling (that makes me cringe) you'll know what I mean. Skool instead of school..I mean come on, my kids know how to spell!! Gets on my nerves to no end. Everything is like - "muh fone is actin strng"
When I read the Myspace entry, I felt the wording wasn't of a 12 year old girl. I mean, sure, there were shortcuts for words used, but the flow of it seemed a bit advanced. I have neices and nephews in their teens (very intelligent at that) and still, the flow of their emails are choppy including a lot of mispelled words, on top of shortcut words. Teenagers are so quick when they type and rarely re-read for acuracy, it's type and send. I think MJ thought too much about the wording, making sure to use the short cuts for every word possible, which is why they found he went into edit the blog after he wrote it. Just my opinion.
lightinthedark
07-11-2008, 12:40 PM
This is a great site that I use. It gives a map of RSOs, where they live, where they work, and what kind of SO they are.
http://www.familywatchdog.us/
Busylady
07-11-2008, 12:41 PM
One thing I would like to see happen is all state use a uniform sex-offender registry. Have an index to what the various charges mean etc. That way anyone can pull up the registry from any state and know exactly what the offense is and what the threat level is. My state registry is horrible, it mixes in the 17 yr old who had consensual sex with his 14 yr old girlfriend right along with the man who molested a 5 yr old child. While both are not a good thing they are very very different in my opinion.
Some states show place of employment, type of car they have registried etc. I think that is wonderful for certain level of offenders. The heck with the offenders rights to privacy etc, they committed a horrible horrible crime and are no longer entitled to privacy in my opinion.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 12:41 PM
NAME Date of Birth CITY COUNTY WANTED TREATMENT STATUS HIGH RISK MURRAY, RICHARD (http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/servlet/SOR?id=X000004961)02-21-1948 RUTLAND RUTLAND NO UNAVAILABLE YES
He is from the rutland area
http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/images/X000004961.jpeg
This man is missing, from probatioon and parole, in Burlington, VT. I do not see anything on the news yet but I when I see something I will post it. He has been missing since monday. He is very Dangerous.
http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/servlet/SORI find it curious where it states "Wanted: NO". Why do they not consider him wanted if he has absconded?!
christine2448
07-11-2008, 12:43 PM
I don't think AR is smart enough to write her emails in code, but that's just me.
I agree with this too.
Medea
07-11-2008, 12:45 PM
One thing I would like to see happen is all state use a uniform sex-offender registry. Have an index to what the various charges mean etc. That way anyone can pull up the registry from any state and know exactly what the offense is and what the threat level is. My state registry is horrible, it mixes in the 17 yr old who had consensual sex with his 14 yr old girlfriend right along with the man who molested a 5 yr old child. While both are not a good thing they are very very different in my opinion.
Some states show place of employment, type of car they have registried etc. I think that is wonderful for certain level of offenders. The heck with the offenders rights to privacy etc, they committed a horrible horrible crime and are no longer entitled to privacy in my opinion.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. Quite frankly, I don't think people convicted of statutory rape involving teens 14+ who agree they consented to sex even belong on the sex offender registry, nor do I think in most cases the older party should even be prosecuted. I don't care if a 22 year old guy has a 15 year old girlfriend.
There are a lot of sex offenders who should never see the light of day again...I saw a case in Oregan or Wash state where the guy is a serial stranger rapist and every MD who has been consulted gives him a 75% chance of re-offending...yet, believe it or not, the parole board wants to release him?!!?!?!?! A serial stranger rapist who everyone agrees is going to reoffend.
MCDRAW
07-11-2008, 12:47 PM
http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/826056/the-establishment-paedophile-how-a-monster-hid-in-high-society.thtml
This story shows how these pedophiles con and manipulate everyone they are around.
Rhett
07-11-2008, 12:47 PM
I must have missed the "machine". Where was this and what was it used for? Also, I missed the part about MJ's sister being molested by him. Can someone provide me with the link to this? I am sorry but there is just so much to read and it is coming so fast. Thank you.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 12:48 PM
One thing I would like to see happen is all state use a uniform sex-offender registry. Have an index to what the various charges mean etc. That way anyone can pull up the registry from any state and know exactly what the offense is and what the threat level is. My state registry is horrible, it mixes in the 17 yr old who had consensual sex with his 14 yr old girlfriend right along with the man who molested a 5 yr old child. While both are not a good thing they are very very different in my opinion.
Some states show place of employment, type of car they have registried etc. I think that is wonderful for certain level of offenders. The heck with the offenders rights to privacy etc, they committed a horrible horrible crime and are no longer entitled to privacy in my opinion.I agree. Let's put out ALL information on the convicted perps who are deemed to have been a danger to another person regardless of the age. The guy who got caught peeing on the side of the road isn't what we need to fear...it is the guy who is caught molesting, raping, torturing, and otherwise endangering another person who should lose their right to privacy or a normal life thereafter. They have been proven to be a danger for life. If they refuse to keep them locked up in prison, we need to find a way to keep them locked out of our lives some way. The information forthcoming on them is horrible and the very reason they can abscond so easily. They just don't leave a forwarding address!
Busylady
07-11-2008, 12:49 PM
That is a great site. The problem is it only list information that is available on individual state sites. If you pull up a person in VT there is no specific address, no place of employment etc.
This is a great site that I use. It gives a map of RSOs, where they live, where they work, and what kind of SO they are.
http://www.familywatchdog.us/
christine2448
07-11-2008, 12:52 PM
http://www.nsopr.gov/
This is the one I use.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 12:53 PM
We passed a law requiring SOs to have a notation on the Drivers License/ID cards here. Hey, not much...but is a start. http://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/newrelease.pdf This means they are identified in the system used by LE instantly when they run a check on them. Also, anyone requiring a DL/ID cards for proof of identification can plainly see it.
Brooks Aunt
07-11-2008, 12:56 PM
Just my opinion, but, I am not looking forward to Denise and Cassandra raking in millions from the state for their own blindness and complicity. I don't believe James Bennett deserves the money either.
I do not think Denise has a low IQ, she has and had good paying jobs, with some authority. Cassandra and grandma may be a different story.
I do believe the state is responsible for releasing him, but I don't want to see the family profit. The only way I can see this not happening is to charge Denise and Cassandra for negligence.
I want to say that jim is not looking to make money off his daughters death. He is trying to heal with the family. All he wants is changes made to the laws and will work to get that done.
LanieCoz
07-11-2008, 12:57 PM
My comment is not intended to offend any posters here. I think some of you may be giving MJ a little too much credit when it comes to the coded emails. I do not for a second believe they are coded. I think they are literal. If he was stupid enough to leave a trace via computers, then why would he be 'smart' enough to use codes. Hope you all understand what it is that i'm saying. I just do not think there is a sex ring going on. I think it was made up purely to put fear in AR.
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 12:59 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble here. We need new laws, old laws revamped, and ways to fund them being enforced. It comes down to manpower and money. I wouldn't be running to the State Reps just yet...unless it is to demand THEY come up with some money to tackle these issues.
We saw that first hand in the Brianna Denison case didn't we? For everyone not familiar with that case, Nevada had passed a SO dna law without the funding to process and log the dna. So basically nothing was being done. Also many of these laws are voluntary participation with no legal recourse, manpower and money to force them to comply. Just look at all the non-compliant SO's out there. They are still living amongst us.
Carrington
07-11-2008, 01:05 PM
We saw that first hand in the Brianna Denison case didn't we? For everyone not familiar with that case, Nevada had passed a SO dna law without the funding to process and log the dna. So basically nothing was being done. Also many of these laws are voluntary participation with no legal recourse, manpower and money to force them to comply. Just look at all the non-compliant SO's out there. They are still living amongst us.
Why the states don't have the money is beyond me.
If they would stop with the excessive waste they would have plenty of money for legitimate causes.
Ditto our goverment.
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 01:08 PM
Why the states don't have the money is beyond me.
If they would stop with the excessive waste they would have plenty of money for legitimate causes.
Ditto our goverment.
Most laws passed are not funded and do not stand up to the supreme court test. It's very easy to pass a law, but difficult to implement. Not that we shouldn't try. But not much foresight is given when they are written.
nanandjim
07-11-2008, 01:10 PM
My comment is not intended to offend any posters here. I think some of you may be giving MJ a little too much credit when it comes to the coded emails. I do not for a second believe they are coded. I think they are literal. If he was stupid enough to leave a trace via computers, then why would he be 'smart' enough to use codes. Hope you all understand what it is that i'm saying. I just do not think there is a sex ring going on. I think it was made up purely to put fear in AR.
I agree with you. I don't think that there are any codes from MJ or from AR. The saddest thing, besides sexually assaulting AR for years and years, is that MJ used AR as his accomplice in the "take down and tie up" of young Brooke. MJ positioned himself as a victim of Breckenridge, too. He was just taking "orders." How pathetic.
I don't understand pedophilia, but I guess that each pedophile has an age preference. I guess that AR was just too old for his taste. Why else would he risk what he did? Apparently, it was more important to him to take down this young girl than to quit while he was ahead. It just doesn't make sense to me.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 01:14 PM
We saw that first hand in the Brianna Denison case didn't we? For everyone not familiar with that case, Nevada had passed a SO dna law without the funding to process and log the dna. So basically nothing was being done. Also many of these laws are voluntary participation with no legal recourse, manpower and money to force them to comply. Just look at all the non-compliant SO's out there. They are still living amongst us.Yes! It is a perfect example. They did come up with the funding from private citizens and businesses to finally run the backlogged DNA, but the problem still exists across the country. Labs are not given funding to carry out what the laws are allowing them to do. It is a maze created of the lack of manpower and funding across the board which is being overlooked by our states.
nanandjim
07-11-2008, 01:15 PM
I want to say that jim is not looking to make money off his daughters death. He is trying to heal with the family. All he wants is changes made to the laws and will work to get that done.
Hey Brooks Aunt. Can you tell me what Jim knew about MJ. Specifically, did he know that he was a pedophile, meaning that he was actually attracted to young girls? I am just wondering if he was totally aware of the type of predator that MJ is/was. It just seems to me that Jim would have definitely taken more action if he thought that his daughter were in danger of being molested by MJ.
Is it possible that Brooke discovered the relationship between MJ and AR (perhaps, by AR mentioning something)? MJ then couldn't take the chance of Brooke telling someone. I just cannot figure out why she was targeted and why on earth he would murder her.
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 01:16 PM
What I fear is going to happen in Vermont is a bunch of knee jerk feel good laws are going to be passed.They will be laws that makes the legislature look and feel good and won't accomplish anything.
What would be a great start would be to actually enforce the current laws on the books. MJ's original sentence was pretty average. The US average is 15 years for kidnapping. The only problem is he was able to get it pared down to three years served and a couple of years probation.
Medea
07-11-2008, 01:19 PM
What I fear is going to happen in Vermont is a bunch of knee jerk feel good laws are going to be passed.They will be laws that makes the legislature look and feel good and won't accomplish anything.
What would be a great start would be to actually enforce the current laws on the books. MJ's original sentence was pretty average. The US average is 15 years for kidnapping. The only problem is he was able to get it pared down to three years served and a couple of years probation.
I agree. The system for whatever reason seems unable to distinguish the true predator from the common criminal, sentences, paroles, etc. are random. You can get more prison time for theft or drug possession than forcible rape. Predators like Jacques do less time than some convicted of statutory rape when consent was not disputed...it makes no sense.
I also agree that the DNA backlog is a total travesty. This doesn't take anything but money, no laws, technology, nothing but money for the tests to be performed and put in the database.
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 01:19 PM
Does anyone find it strange that a judge would release MJ from probation based on the fact he was married and had a child, when the condition of his probation stated he couldn't be around children under the age of 16? Since when is it ok to release someone from probation when they are currently breaking the terms of it?
Brooks Aunt
07-11-2008, 01:22 PM
Hey Brooks Aunt. Can you tell me what Jim knew about MJ. Specifically, did he know that he was a pedophile, meaning that he was actually attracted to young girls? I am just wondering if he was totally aware of the type of predator that MJ is/was. It just seems to me that Jim would have definitely taken more action if he thought that his daughter were in danger of being molested by MJ.
Is it possible that Brooke discovered the relationship between MJ and AR (perhaps, by AR mentioning something)? MJ then couldn't take the chance of Brooke telling someone. I just cannot figure out why she was targeted and why on earth he would murder her.
Whwn Jim found out that information he in no certain terms told everyone that she was not allowed to be around him. Anyone coming from a two family home should know that the parent that does not have full custody is always the last to know everything. Jim was also in Iraq for a year and has always been a great father. He does not deserve alot of the things that people are saying about him. I have spent alot of time with Brooke and she was always a very happy little girl.
christine2448
07-11-2008, 01:22 PM
Why the states don't have the money is beyond me.
If they would stop with the excessive waste they would have plenty of money for legitimate causes.
Ditto our goverment.
I don't understand this, DNA testing w/DOJ initiative has NO FISCAL IMPACT. There is no cost to state/LE. Univ. of TX will send the kits, receive and enter into CODIS, FREE. Someone is not righting the law correctly.
Please see here for more info/Links to MODEL Legislation. (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61206)
VTNance
07-11-2008, 01:23 PM
lI just do not think there is a sex ring going on. I think it was made up purely to put fear in AR.
I don't think Breckenridge existed as it was presented to AR, i.e. I don't think there's a super-secret sex school backed up by the President.... but I do think these guys were big-time into making and distributing CP (I can't even stand to write it out any more), think we'll be finding out more about that as the investigation progresses. I hope I am wrong and this is JMO.
Chica
07-11-2008, 01:23 PM
I want to say that jim is not looking to make money off his daughters death. He is trying to heal with the family. All he wants is changes made to the laws and will work to get that done.
Thank you, Brooks Aunt. I feel for all of the poor parents in this case. Hindsight is always 20/20, and I am certain that if any one of the parents would have it to do over again they would NEVER let their children anywhere near MJ or RG. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who want to - even NEED to - point the finger and place the blame somewhere, and the parents of poor Brooke and poor AR are easy targets.
Brooke, AR, and their siblings and parents are all in my prayers.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 01:23 PM
I want to say that jim is not looking to make money off his daughters death. He is trying to heal with the family. All he wants is changes made to the laws and will work to get that done.He doesn't strike me as the type that would want to profit. I only mentioned he and Janet in the reply to someone as being the only people able to in this situation, imo.
Make sure he pushes for funding for those new laws. I respect that he is willing to work towards laws to help prevent this from happening to others. I will support him in his quest to do so.
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 01:24 PM
Whwn Jim found out that information he in no certain terms told everyone that she was not allowed to be around him. Anyone coming from a two family home should know that the parent that does not have full custody is always the last to know everything. Jim was also in Iraq for a year and has always been a great father. He does not deserve alot of the things that people are saying about him. I have spent alot of time with Brooke and she was always a very happy little girl.
Thank you. And it's my understanding that Denise had sole-custody?
Medea
07-11-2008, 01:25 PM
I don't think Breckenridge existed as it was presented to AR, i.e. I don't think there's a super-secret sex school backed up by the President.... but I do think these guys were big-time into making and distributing CP (I can't even stand to write it out any more), think we'll be finding out more about that as the investigation progresses. I hope I am wrong and this is JMO.
I don't. Jacques and Gagnon are so unsophisticated they couldn't even cover their tracks changing myspace, I cannot for the life of me see them able to make and distributed porn on any kind of wide scale without getting caught. I think they buy it, I think that Jacques probably taped/photographed AR and may have given those images to his buddies, but a professional porn ring? No way. Amateurs all the way.
christine2448
07-11-2008, 01:25 PM
What is the status with the adults in this??? Ar Mom? Brooks Mom?
Brooks Aunt: do you see any charges, have you heard of anything?
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 01:25 PM
Does anyone find it strange that a judge would release MJ from probation based on the fact he was married and had a child, when the condition of his probation stated he couldn't be around children under the age of 16? Since when is it ok to release someone from probation when they are currently breaking the terms of it?And BECAUSE they are breaking the terms no less!! :bang:
Brooks Aunt
07-11-2008, 01:27 PM
Thank you. And it's my understanding that Denise had sole-custody?
Yes she had custody but Brooke was always able to be with Jim and Janet as often as she wanted.
VTNance
07-11-2008, 01:27 PM
Whwn Jim found out that information he in no certain terms told everyone that she was not allowed to be around him. Anyone coming from a two family home should know that the parent that does not have full custody is always the last to know everything. Jim was also in Iraq for a year and has always been a great father. He does not deserve alot of the things that people are saying about him. I have spent alot of time with Brooke and she was always a very happy little girl.
My heart goes out to Jim and your whole family, my condolences are with you and I pray for some justice for Brooke and your family.
Brooks Aunt
07-11-2008, 01:29 PM
What is the status with the adults in this??? Ar Mom? Brooks Mom?
Brooks Aunt: do you see any charges, have you heard of anything?
We have not been told all the details yet.
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 01:29 PM
Yes she had custody but Brooke was always able to be with Jim and Janet as often as she wanted.
Unfortunately, that left Jim's hands legally tied. He could state his wishes, but Cassandra had the final say.
VTNance
07-11-2008, 01:30 PM
I don't. Jacques and Gagnon are so unsophisticated they couldn't even cover their tracks changing myspace, I cannot for the life of me see them able to make and distributed porn on any kind of wide scale without getting caught. I think they buy it, I think that Jacques probably taped/photographed AR and may have given those images to his buddies, but a professional porn ring? No way. Amateurs all the way.
Hope you're right.
Elley Mae
07-11-2008, 01:32 PM
One thing I would like to see happen is all state use a uniform sex-offender registry. Have an index to what the various charges mean etc. That way anyone can pull up the registry from any state and know exactly what the offense is and what the threat level is. My state registry is horrible, it mixes in the 17 yr old who had consensual sex with his 14 yr old girlfriend right along with the man who molested a 5 yr old child. While both are not a good thing they are very very different in my opinion.
Some states show place of employment, type of car they have registried etc. I think that is wonderful for certain level of offenders. The heck with the offenders rights to privacy etc, they committed a horrible horrible crime and are no longer entitled to privacy in my opinion.
Agree 110% busylady the part that I disagree with as well,is after they serve there time all is suppose to be forgiven, once a molester,always a molester.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 01:38 PM
I don't understand this, DNA testing w/DOJ initiative has NO FISCAL IMPACT. There is no cost to state/LE. Univ. of TX will send the kits, receive and enter into CODIS, FREE. Someone is not righting the law correctly.
Please see here for more info/Links to MODEL Legislation. (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61206)They have to pay the ME, the lab responsible for chain of command in securing the DNA, and various other factors before it can ever be sent to the Univ. of TX lab and entered into CODIS. This is where the problem lies. There IS a Fiscal impact on the states when you have a huge backlog of samples being processed to even consider sending it to them. There are a lot of people involved in one DNA result.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 01:39 PM
Unfortunately, that left Jim's hands legally tied. He could state his wishes, but Cassandra had the final say.I agree, Suzi, and it is what I have been saying all along.
christine2448
07-11-2008, 01:42 PM
They have to pay the ME, the lab responsible for chain of command in securing the DNA, and various other factors before it can ever be sent to the Univ. of TX lab and entered into CODIS. This is where the problem lies. There IS a Fiscal impact on the states when you have a huge backlog of samples being processed to even consider sending it to them. There are a lot of people involved in one DNA result.
I don't see the cost, I have arranged for this to be done 6 times in the last 6 months, there was no $$ involved. The det. calls TX, TX mails kit, relatives pop in LE station, 2 sec swab, drop it in the mail, done.
It is imperative that you submit the letter from the DNA Lab (http://www.projectjason.org/downloads/CampaignDNALetter.pdf) in TX (CHI) to your senator(s) and make sure they understand that CHI will bear the burden of the cost of DNA processing. A link to this letter is on the Pertinent Files thread. If you do not make this clear, your state will include DNA processing in their fiscal impact statement and potentially end up killing the bill for lack of funding to pay for DNA processing. CHI does it for free and is a government sanctioned lab.
Medea
07-11-2008, 01:42 PM
Agree 110% busylady the part that I disagree with as well,is after they serve there time all is suppose to be forgiven, once a molester,always a molester.
I guess I agree to a degree, I just don't think all sex criminals can be lumped together. Some pedophiles abuse dozens of children, some only abuse their own children, some stick to pornography and don't abuse anyone, some few kill their victims as well as abusing them. The teacher who has sex with his underage student is not the same as the man who abuses his pre adolescent step daughter.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 01:46 PM
I also agree that the DNA backlog is a total travesty. This doesn't take anything but money, no laws, technology, nothing but money for the tests to be performed and put in the database.They recently decided to close the Lab in Tulsa and send ALL of our testing to OKC which would have further slowed the process here. This was circumvented for now, but technology does require expertise and qualified persons to perform the testing. You then have to consider the laboratory itself, the upkeep, the staffing, and purchasing of the latest equipment to carry out the testing etc.. As the science grew and exploded with DNA used in criminal cases, the crime labs did not. They are still understaffed severely and underfunded. This needs to be corrected from a Federal level, imo.
liljim
07-11-2008, 01:48 PM
the issue of the seperated parents and their individual concerns reminds me of another case, jessyca i believe was the girl's name and one of the kidnapper's names was oliver (not sure if that is first or last).
the parents were seperated and they disagreed on how much of a creep/threat this oliver guy was, so the father lets the girl go on a daytrip with him and of course it turns out the guy had been assaulting the girl for some time and he abducts her that day.
terrible situation all around. the girl lived but with significant phsyical and emotional trauma.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 01:49 PM
I don't see the cost, I have arranged for this to be done 6 times in the last 6 months, there was no $$ involved. The det. calls TX, TX mails kit, relatives pop in LE station, 2 sec swab, drop it in the mail, done.
It is imperative that you submit the letter from the DNA Lab (http://www.projectjason.org/downloads/CampaignDNALetter.pdf) in TX (CHI) to your senator(s) and make sure they understand that CHI will bear the burden of the cost of DNA processing. A link to this letter is on the Pertinent Files thread. If you do not make this clear, your state will include DNA processing in their fiscal impact statement and potentially end up killing the bill for lack of funding to pay for DNA processing. CHI does it for free and is a government sanctioned lab.You are talking about DNA testing for relatives of UIDs etc. I am talking about taking samples from the victims via the ME and staff doing the autopsies etc. I still say there is a considerable cost to pay these people to collect the samples which have to adhere to strict guidelines to be used in court.
jep0216
07-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Whwn Jim found out that information he in no certain terms told everyone that she was not allowed to be around him. Anyone coming from a two family home should know that the parent that does not have full custody is always the last to know everything. Jim was also in Iraq for a year and has always been a great father. He does not deserve alot of the things that people are saying about him. I have spent alot of time with Brooke and she was always a very happy little girl.
Brookes Aunt, can you tell us if AR was at the funeral? Or Juv 2?
christine2448
07-11-2008, 01:58 PM
You are talking about DNA testing for relatives of UIDs etc. I am talking about taking samples from the victims via the ME and staff doing the autopsies etc. I still say there is a considerable cost to pay these people to collect the samples which have to adhere to strict guidelines to be used in court.
The UNT System, Center for Human Identification.s (CHI) mission is to provide
identification and forensic analysis of human remains, establish a basis for future
identification of persons reported missing and provide educational services to the
medico-legal community. Our facility provides collection kits for family reference
samples and submission kits for unidentified human remains at no charge to law
enforcement agencies, medical examiners and coroners across the country. Since the
center became operational, CHI has an identification percentage of 32% for human
remains analyzed using nuclear and mitochondrial DNA methods and uploaded into the
FBI.s Combined DNA Index System (CODIS). DNA analysis using nuclear and
mitochondrial methods is the most accurate method available today for identifying
remains.
In addition to the DNA testing provided by the CHI, anthropological services are
provided through a forensic anthropology laboratory directed by Dr. Harrell Gill- King, a
nationally known board certified forensic anthropologist. The anthropological services
include examination of skeletal remains, trauma analysis, estimation of date of death,
physical abnormalities of remains...................
The CHI is funded by grants awarded through the National Institute of Justice. Services
are offered at no charge to the following:
1. Federal, state and local law enforcement agencies
2. The medic legal community, (i.e. medical examiners, coroner and others
assigned with the responsibility for the examination of human remains
3. National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
4. Other regional or specialized agencies dealing with the missing
5. Criminal justice entities
Representatives from our facility will be happy to meet with appropriate state entities to
design and implement protocols for the collection and submission of all reference and
remains samples. This is offered on a state-wide basis through the utilization of each
state.s available monetary and physical resources using Washington State as the model
program. (<---maybe this is what I'm not getting SS?)
texas48
07-11-2008, 01:59 PM
I've always thought that RSO need a tatoo put on there nose where the people of the world could see they were RSO. So there would be no doubt who or what the charge had been.
If these perverts can't be trusted & many decide not to register, it would be a very simple way to keep track of them. Harsh punishment maybe / but would save needless deaths.You are so right cheko..Also all states should adopt Louisiana Law for rape sex offenders,child molestors...etc. Bet that would stop some from even thinking about it.
miss lisa
07-11-2008, 01:59 PM
Anyone locally heard any news of the search for the "safe"?
Amster
07-11-2008, 02:04 PM
The victim that MJ was sent to prison for wasn't a minor, right? If so, would his probation prevent him from being around minors?
liljim
07-11-2008, 02:05 PM
his victim in that case was 18.
nanandjim
07-11-2008, 02:12 PM
Whwn Jim found out that information he in no certain terms told everyone that she was not allowed to be around him. Anyone coming from a two family home should know that the parent that does not have full custody is always the last to know everything. Jim was also in Iraq for a year and has always been a great father. He does not deserve alot of the things that people are saying about him. I have spent alot of time with Brooke and she was always a very happy little girl.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, those of us with blended family do know that the Dad (in particular) usually is the last to know what is going on. Jim does come across as a person who deeply cared about his daughter. It looked like he was holding hands with Cassandra at the funeral/wake. She was on one side and his wife was on the other. I don't think that I would be holding hands with my ex-partner in this particular situation.
Have you ever met AR? If so, what was your impression of her? I wonder if she compartmentalized that one part of her life and acted like a normal child when she was with others?
Do you know the reason that Savannah and AR quit speaking?
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 02:26 PM
I was doing a little investigating today and I found out that AR actually logged on to her myspace account today. So obviously she still has internet access wherever she is. IMO
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 02:35 PM
The UNT System, Center for Human Identification.s (CHI) mission is to provide
identification and forensic analysis of human remains, establish a basis for future
identification of persons reported missing and provide educational services to the
medico-legal community. Our facility provides collection kits for family reference
samples and submission kits for unidentified human remains at no charge to law
enforcement agencies, medical examiners and coroners across the country. Since the
center became operational, CHI has an identification percentage of 32% for human
remains analyzed using nuclear and mitochondrial DNA methods and uploaded into the
FBI.s Combined DNA Index System (CODIS). DNA analysis using nuclear and
mitochondrial methods is the most accurate method available today for identifying
remains.
In addition to the DNA testing provided by the CHI, anthropological services are
provided through a forensic anthropology laboratory directed by Dr. Harrell Gill- King, a
nationally known board certified forensic anthropologist. The anthropological services
include examination of skeletal remains, trauma analysis, estimation of date of death,
physical abnormalities of remains...................
The CHI is funded by grants awarded through the National Institute of Justice. Services
are offered at no charge to the following:
1. Federal, state and local law enforcement agencies
2. The medic legal community, (i.e. medical examiners, coroner and others
assigned with the responsibility for the examination of human remains
3. National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
4. Other regional or specialized agencies dealing with the missing
5. Criminal justice entities
Representatives from our facility will be happy to meet with appropriate state entities to
design and implement protocols for the collection and submission of all reference and
remains samples. This is offered on a state-wide basis through the utilization of each
state.s available monetary and physical resources using Washington State as the model
program. (<---maybe this is what I'm not getting SS?) OK, Christine...upon doing some research on the project...if you google it..first thing to pop up is Projectjason (Kelly's site). As near as I can tell, this is used exclusively for identifying UIDs and missing. It is not a catch all for every DNA test that runs through the state's crime labs whatsoever. This will do nothing to expedite criminal cases. In this respect, I was correct as far as the costs of testing etc.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 02:38 PM
The victim that MJ was sent to prison for wasn't a minor, right? If so, would his probation prevent him from being around minors?IIRC, it was stated his probation did require him to avoid children 16 years and younger even though his victim on the conviction was 18 years old at the time. I will have to find that article.
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 02:41 PM
The victim that MJ was sent to prison for wasn't a minor, right? If so, would his probation prevent him from being around minors?
All I know is part of his probation conditions was forbidding contact with children under 16. Ack, now I'm going to have to go back and find where that was reported.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 02:49 PM
All I know is part of his probation conditions was forbidding contact with children under 16. Ack, now I'm going to have to go back and find where that was reported.
I remember reading that as well,... then my question is HOW come he was allowed to reside in a house with children???? Oh yes,.. because he was a SUCCESS case,... BULL *****!!! Once a child molester always a child molester. You think people would get that by now. How many kids have to go through this before harder laws come into play??? Just look at the news. You can't even turn the tv on without seeing someone killing someone or hurting a child. What about that dad that just killed his wife and his two children by strangulation? It was on Nancy Grace last night. (the kids were TWO and ELEVEN MONTHS!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:)
sorry about the rant,.. but it really makes me angry that alot of innocent children are being molested, murdered and most of the time the perp has had a record and shouldn't have been let out of jail!~
JMO
Tom'sGirl
07-11-2008, 02:52 PM
Do you know the reason that Savannah and AR quit speaking?
The mention of Savanna brings up something I've been wondering about regarding other minor children in the family circle.
Savanna's last name is Andress, and in one Media photo at the Memorial there is a photo with three minor girls with an older woman and the girls names were mentioned, and being from Randolf........two of the three girl's last names listed is Andress.
philamena
07-11-2008, 02:53 PM
You think these entire emails were written in code?
I think a lot of them were in code Christine.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 02:56 PM
The mention of Savanna brings up something I've been wondering about regarding other minor children in the family circle.
Savanna's last name is Andress, and in one Media photo at the Memorial there is a photo with three minor girls with an older woman and the girls names were mentioned, and being from Randolf........two of the three girl's last names listed is Andress.
do you have any idea which photo slideshow it was? There is SOOOO many of them I am not sure where to look first.
texas48
07-11-2008, 02:58 PM
I remember reading that as well,... then my question is HOW come he was allowed to reside in a house with children???? Oh yes,.. because he was a SUCCESS case,... BULL *****!!! Once a child molester always a child molester. You think people would get that by now. How many kids have to go through this before harder laws come into play??? Just look at the news. You can't even turn the tv on without seeing someone killing someone or hurting a child. What about that dad that just killed his wife and his two children by strangulation? It was on Nancy Grace last night. (the kids were TWO and ELEVEN MONTHS!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:)
sorry about the rant,.. but it really makes me angry that alot of innocent children are being molested, murdered and most of the time the perp has had a record and shouldn't have been let out of jail!~
JMOYea, I saw NG last night..What was so sad other than the dealthsof inocent babies, this guy had a RO on him for previously holding the 11 month old out the window of a moving car just because he was mad at his wife. Go figure!
Amster
07-11-2008, 02:58 PM
Thanks everyone for the info about his probation.....no need to search for the articles...I trust that you all know what you're talking about! Unlike me....lol
Medea
07-11-2008, 03:00 PM
It doesn't make sense to me that his probation would have forbid him to be around children under 16 when he was convicted of a sex crime against an 18 year old.
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 03:00 PM
Aha, I found the article that references the probation condition. I'm pretty sure once MJ was released from probation he no longer had to abide by this condition. In anycase, we know he was breaking it at the time MJ was recommended for release based on the fact he had a wife and child.
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080709/FRONTPAGE/807090305&template=page2
(snip)
Hoffman said that while on probation, Jacques was subject to regular visits from a probation officer. He was also required to avoid contact with children younger than 16 years old.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 03:01 PM
Yea, I saw NG last night..What was so sad other than the dealthsof inocent babies, this guy had a RO on him for previously holding the 11 month old out the window of a moving car just because he was mad at his wife. Go figure!
I couldn't even watch all of it. It made me so sick to my stomach. I can't image that little girl and little boy looking into the eyes of their "sperm donor" (because that is what he is! He isn't a father!) as he strangled them. Too sad!
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 03:02 PM
Hey, Amster...we can be wrong sometimes!! LOL We just read like everyone else and are subject to brain..uhm..interruptions.
Thanks, Suzi! I knew we were right all along. hehehe
SuziQ
07-11-2008, 03:03 PM
It doesn't make sense to me that his probation would have forbid him to be around children under 16 when he was convicted of a sex crime against an 18 year old.
Psych reports or his sexual attacks starting at age 11 may have been the determination.
Carrington
07-11-2008, 03:05 PM
Psych reports or his sexual attacks starting at age 11 may have been the determination.
It should also have given certain people a clue.
IMO
christine2448
07-11-2008, 03:06 PM
OK, Christine...upon doing some research on the project...if you google it..first thing to pop up is Projectjason (Kelly's site). As near as I can tell, this is used exclusively for identifying UIDs and missing. It is not a catch all for every DNA test that runs through the state's crime labs whatsoever. This will do nothing to expedite criminal cases. In this respect, I was correct as far as the costs of testing etc.
Gotcha, thanks for 'splainin'. :blowkiss:
grapejuice
07-11-2008, 03:07 PM
I'm just sickened by this whole story. Why isn't castration considered for these offenders? Obviously the recidivism rate is almost 100% for these pedophiles, and it seems to me this would reduce that to almost nil, while avoiding the whole "death penalty" discussion. Don't these crimes deserve a castration? Could anything be more heinous than incest with little children? AHHHH!!!
I guess our PC society and "civil rights" stances seem to take precedence over the safety of our children.
Medea
07-11-2008, 03:09 PM
I'm just sickened by this whole story. Why isn't castration considered for these offenders? Obviously the recidivism rate is almost 100% for these pedophiles, and it seems to me this would reduce that to almost nil, while avoiding the whole "death penalty" discussion. Don't these crimes deserve a castration? Could anything be more heinous than incest with little children? AHHHH!!!
I guess our PC society and "civil rights" stances seem to take precedence over the safety of our children.
Castration is ineffective because there is a world of things a pedophile can still do to harm his victim including assault with objects.
This is another thing that sounds good on the surface, but really isn't.
Chemical castration is more effective, but only if they take the medicine.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 03:12 PM
I'm just sickened by this whole story. Why isn't castration considered for these offenders? Obviously the recidivism rate is almost 100% for these pedophiles, and it seems to me this would reduce that to almost nil, while avoiding the whole "death penalty" discussion. Don't these crimes deserve a castration? Could anything be more heinous than incest with little children? AHHHH!!!
I guess our PC society and "civil rights" stances seem to take precedence over the safety of our children.Welcome to WS, Grapejuice. The problem isn't in their penis...it is in their head. I would vote for lobotomies tho. :)
Rape of any person of any age is an act of power and control. While castration would prevent them from using that part of themselves in the act, it wouldn't prevent them from committing the act itself. (ie. instrumentation, hands, etc.)
RR0004
07-11-2008, 03:13 PM
I think a lot of them were in code Christine.
Oh, bless you both...I thought it was only me who thought so (from the moment i read the affidavit!!)
Tom'sGirl
07-11-2008, 03:14 PM
do you have any idea which photo slideshow it was? There is SOOOO many of them I am not sure where to look first.
Yes, it's here http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BT&Date=20080703&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=807030801&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 and I did a screen cap in case the site no longer carries the photos as most don't after a certain period of time.
From the little we can see of the woman, the hair color does resemble that of Cassandra, but may not be her.
miss lisa
07-11-2008, 03:17 PM
Oh, bless you both...I thought it was only me who thought so (from the moment i read the affidavit!!)
I think we are in the minority here with that line of thinking.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 03:19 PM
Yes, it's here http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BT&Date=20080703&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=807030801&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 and I did a screen cap in case the site no longer carries the photos as most don't after a certain period of time.
From the little we can see of the woman, the hair color does resemble that of Cassandra, but may not be her.
It could be,.. but I think it isn't. Is that woman wearing glasses? The next picture in line is Savanna and Cassandra and I don't think the two woman are wearing the same thing. Maybe its Savanna's half sisters and that is the new wife that is married to Savanna's bio dad. JMO
grapejuice
07-11-2008, 03:19 PM
I'm sure castration is not a cure-all but it seems to me it might go a long way towards helping some.
From a Washington Post story: "One Danish study suggested the rate of repeat offenses dropped from 80 percent to 2.3 percent after surgical castration."
texas48
07-11-2008, 03:23 PM
I couldn't even watch all of it. It made me so sick to my stomach. I can't image that little girl and little boy looking into the eyes of their "sperm donor" (because that is what he is! He isn't a father!) as he strangled them. Too sad!
I agree and they were so precious! When will this evil ever stop?
Tom'sGirl
07-11-2008, 03:26 PM
It could be,.. but I think it isn't. Is that woman wearing glasses? The next picture in line is Savanna and Cassandra and I don't think the two woman are wearing the same thing. Maybe its Savanna's half sisters and that is the new wife that is married to Savanna's bio dad. JMO
I agree they could be Savanna's half sisters, but the fact that they live in Randolph made me wonder IF Savanna's biological dad who lives locally, which I did find listed, did he know of the family dynamics?
I must have missed the "machine". Where was this and what was it used for? Also, I missed the part about MJ's sister being molested by him. Can someone provide me with the link to this? I am sorry but there is just so much to read and it is coming so fast. Thank you.
I think that this is the correct affidavit for the machine.
http://www.websleuths.com/adnoid/bennett/Brooke%20Bennett%20Affidavit%20Jul%203%20emails.pd f
RR0004
07-11-2008, 03:29 PM
Also when parents allow their children to be with SO on a published list they too should be held legally responsible.
Thanks, SUPI.
You know, I never thought of this... Bad enough you marry this POS and give him access to your daughters, but what must the parent's of children who visited Denise's home (playdates and such) be thinking? The ripple effect is amazing when you release a RSO back into the community.
Rhett,
I think this is the news article about MJ's sister.
http://www.wptz.com/news/16845790/detail.html
RR0004
07-11-2008, 03:33 PM
Could be completely possible considering if anyone else accessed the emails they would have no idea what they were actual talking about. Say a passerby glanced at either of them looking at their emails,.. they would have no clue or no red flags. But if you say what some of these words mean on the screen you would instantly take a double take I would think. JMO
EXACTLY!!! Thank you.
Elley Mae
07-11-2008, 03:36 PM
I read the affidavit again and the (take down) went from wednesday back to monday and then changed again to wednesday, I also wandered if the police were at the funeral for the protection of savanna, she was not well liked, and or was viewed as a threat.And I still find it strange that Brooke would leave her cellphone home. But the police could have located it. Makes me wander,just my thoughts.
RR0004
07-11-2008, 03:36 PM
Did I miss something, I was looking for the interview that for bio-dad did from his home where I thought he said,(Brooke was looking forward to the trip to see her ex-stepfather) I can not find it. While looking I found her myspace page and she list her age as 14?, and states she loves cj, any thoughts on this.
EM...you're correct in that you saw that...I remember him saying that, too.
Medea
07-11-2008, 03:42 PM
I read the affidavit again and the (take down) went from wednesday back to monday and then changed again to wednesday, I also wandered if the police were at the funeral for the protection of savanna, she was not well liked, and or was viewed as a threat.And I still find it strange that Brooke would leave her cellphone home. But the police could have located it. Makes me wander,just my thoughts.
Not well liked by whom? Jacques and Gagnon are already in jail, and AR is 14...so who would Savanna need protection from?
DianeB
07-11-2008, 03:45 PM
New article just posted on the Houston Chronicle site - the landfill search continues. And in answer to our questions from yesterday,
Erik Vasys, an FBI spokesman, said investigators have searched for the safe over the last week. Vasys said Thursday was not the first day the landfill had been searched.
"The focus of our assistance is the recovery of hard drives related to the investigation," Vasys said.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5883129.html
ETA Now I'm curious about why it's taking so long to find something they started looking for so quickly. Maybe the theories about the safe not being disposed of in a dumpster are correct. If that's the case, Grosenheider is a fool, because the truth will eventually come out.
Busylady
07-11-2008, 03:48 PM
The woman hugging the girls is Evangaline the mother of the Andress girls and probably aunt to the other in the picture girl in the picture.
Yes, it's here http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BT&Date=20080703&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=807030801&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 and I did a screen cap in case the site no longer carries the photos as most don't after a certain period of time.
From the little we can see of the woman, the hair color does resemble that of Cassandra, but may not be her.
miss lisa
07-11-2008, 03:48 PM
I would like to know....
*Was Denise out of town on business the night before and the day of
If not...
*What time does she arrive home from work on the evening before
*What time does she leave for work the morning of
*What time does she arrive home the evening of
*When does she actually suspect something is WRONG
Tom'sGirl
07-11-2008, 03:52 PM
The woman hugging the girls is Evangaline the mother of the two Andress girls in the picture that are named.
Thanks Busy!
Elley Mae
07-11-2008, 03:53 PM
Not well liked by whom? Jacques and Gagnon are already in jail, and AR is 14...so who would Savanna need protection from?
I guess I'm thinking that the police are not sure if its just those two. In reference to the cellphone if Brooke had it on her it would have been something else that MJ would have to get rid of.
DianeB
07-11-2008, 03:58 PM
Not well liked by whom? Jacques and Gagnon are already in jail, and AR is 14...so who would Savanna need protection from?Whomever wrote the email that referred to her as a c***.
Tom'sGirl
07-11-2008, 03:59 PM
Whwn Jim found out that information he in no certain terms told everyone that she was not allowed to be around him. Anyone coming from a two family home should know that the parent that does not have full custody is always the last to know everything. Jim was also in Iraq for a year and has always been a great father. He does not deserve alot of the things that people are saying about him. I have spent alot of time with Brooke and she was always a very happy little girl.
Thank you for your post. I know you mentioned you're Janet Brooks cousin and live in another State. What I'd like to ask is why, after Mike knew of this did he make this statement that "it wasn't made a big deal" regarding MJ?
News of Jacques' possible involvement with his daughter's disappearance came as a surprise to James Bennett. Brooke's father says he knew about Jacques' past conviction on kidnapping and sexual assault and had brought it up as an issue with Brooke's mother.
"It wasn't made a big deal. He was married to Brooke's aunt and there were kids there here age and there was no indication that there was a problem of any kind, so it was never made an issue," he said. "Looking back, knowing what I do today, it would have been a lot different."
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8580434&nav=menu183_2_2_2 (http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8580434&nav=menu183_2_2_2)
Medea
07-11-2008, 04:04 PM
Whomever wrote the email that referred to her as a c***.
That could only be AR or Jacques, my recollection is that it was AR who wrote that.
The police have said they don't think there were any other victims in Vermont or any Vermont children being solicited for this 'sex ring'...and I have no reason not to believe it. When they think that there are other victims they usually make a public request for these victims to come foward.....
Busylady
07-11-2008, 04:06 PM
Do you by chance have a link where the police have said they don't think there are any more victims in Vermont? I knew they had said they didnt think Vermont children were being solicited for the sex ring, but I missed the part were they said thre were no more victims in Vermont. Thank you.
That could only be AR or Jacques, my recollection is that it was AR who wrote that.
The police have said they don't think there were any other victims in Vermont or any Vermont children being solicited for this 'sex ring'...and I have no reason not to believe it. When they think that there are other victims they usually make a public request for these victims to come foward.....
Medea
07-11-2008, 04:09 PM
Do you by chance have a link where the police have said they don't think there are any more victims in Vermont? I knew they had said they didnt think Vermont children were being solicited for the sex ring, but I missed the part were they said thre were no more victims in Vermont. Thank you.
It means the same thing to me.
Busylady
07-11-2008, 04:10 PM
Article dated July 1, 2008
Baker said police were considering all possibilities, including that the alleged sex ring exists or that it was a ruse Jacques created to intimidate a young girl into having sex with him.
"The State Police would like to speak with any child or teenager who may have had contact with Michael Jacques," Baker said.
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/northeast/view/2008_07_01_Search_for_missing_girl_turns_to_uncle_ s_property/srvc=home&position=also
christine2448
07-11-2008, 04:14 PM
Why do you need to post these minors names on here? I see the links, adn that's the rule, once in mainstream media you can post... BUT what is the freakin' purpose of this?????? How does it help us to know their first middle last names and have to post them up? We were just fine with initials. We are NOT media, I just think we should have more respect for these poor children. It's bad enough that they put their names in the paper..now we will help get their names out on the net so they can read all the crap when they google their own names. :( JMO FWIW.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Why do you need to post these minors names on here? I see the links, adn that's the rule, once in mainstream media you can post... BUT what is the freakin' purpose of this?????? How does it help us to know their first middle last names and have to post them up? We were just fine with initials. We are NOT media, I just think we should have more respect for these poor children. It's bad enough that they put their names in the paper..now we will help get their names out on the net so they can read all the crap when they google their own names. :( JMO FWIW.I take it you were talking about my posts...which I did delete. However, I was trying to convey that when Brooke wrote the comment on her myspace page...it was probably about one of those two people in her life and not some mystery person which could lead some on a wild goose chase. I thought the new rule stated we could mention names as long as they were already mentioned in the mainstream media. I couldn't easily have conveyed who I was talking about by using only initials because it was the intitials I was trying to explain. Make sense?
cheko1
07-11-2008, 04:22 PM
You are so right cheko..Also all states should adopt Louisiana Law for rape sex offenders,child molestors...etc. Bet that would stop some from even thinking about it.
Something definately needs done...so far nothing else has worked. Yes all states need to adopt LA Law. Stops many in there tracks!!!!
christine2448
07-11-2008, 04:25 PM
I take it you were talking about my posts...which I did delete. However, I was trying to convey that when Brooke wrote the comment on her myspace page...it was probably about one of those two people in her life and not some mystery person which could lead some on a wild goose chase. I thought the new rule stated we could mention names as long as they were already mentioned in the mainstream media. I couldn't easily have conveyed who I was talking about by using only initials because it was the intitials I was trying to explain. Make sense?
I just reread your 2 posts to be sure, there was no mention of MySpace....1st post you quoted an article and bolded names of 2 minors, which is not against the rules..but that is one I was referring to, the 2nd post you deleted you asked about a middle name.....again, you did not have to delete, however, I appreciate it. I just don't the benefit, and you don't have to agree w/me ;)
Medea
07-11-2008, 04:30 PM
I don't get the fascination with identifying, name or trying to ID who these minors are or who people are in funeral photographs, or what their relationship is to the key players. it seems totally irrelevant to the case.
But, I also thought it was highly inappropriate for the funeral to be broadcast on TV and fror the media to be allowed to freely take photos.
I guess I come from the dying breed who think that unless you are a head of state or a celebrity that a funeral is a solemn and private matter that is not compatible with TV cameras and photographers.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 04:31 PM
I didn't quote the post because it was obviously posted a ways back (I tried to go back to find it without luck) and requoted in RR's post (#176) above which would not carry over in a quote. Elley Mae asked for thoughts on that particular comment on Brooke's myspace page.
See: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2372681&postcount=176
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 04:36 PM
I don't get the fascination with identifying, name or trying to ID who these minors are or who people are in funeral photographs, or what their relationship is to the key players. it seems totally irrelevant to the case.
I am NOT fascinated by trying to name minors. I was trying to explain who I believe Brooke was addressing in her comment is all. In that instance, the minors names DO become relevant.
Medea
07-11-2008, 04:40 PM
The woman hugging the girls is Evangaline the mother of the Andress girls and probably aunt to the other in the picture girl in the picture.
How is this relevant? How are the names of minors on Brooke's myspace relevant? How is all the speculation about whether or not the blonde woman at the funeral is Jacues sister relevant?
Obviously, most people on here disagree with me that this kind of stuff is irrelevant and inappropriate, and that's fine.
I think many get carried away with what they "CAN" find out and forget to stop and think whether they "SHOULD" find it out and post it.
christine2448
07-11-2008, 04:41 PM
I am NOT fascinated by trying to name minors. I was trying to explain who I believe Brooke was addressing in her comment is all. In that instance, the minors names DO become relevant.
I again, disagree...why post (and they were bolded too) the entire minors name...again, we have been doing just great w/intials.....but, enuff said. As long as rules are being followed as a mod my hands are tied...as a poster, I will post my opinions and that's what I am doing here :)
christine2448
07-11-2008, 04:43 PM
I am sorry I took the thread OT, please continue on..just follow the rules about the names please.
lightinthedark
07-11-2008, 04:44 PM
I don't get the fascination with identifying, name or trying to ID who these minors are or who people are in funeral photographs, or what their relationship is to the key players. it seems totally irrelevant to the case.
But, I also thought it was highly inappropriate for the funeral to be broadcast on TV and fror the media to be allowed to freely take photos.
I guess I come from the dying breed who think that unless you are a head of state or a celebrity that a funeral is a solemn and private matter that is not compatible with TV cameras and photographers.
I agree, except for allowing it to be acceptable for celebrities and heads of state. JMO
Rhett
07-11-2008, 04:52 PM
Thank you ZOOL!
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 05:00 PM
I again, disagree...why post (and they were bolded too) the entire minors name...again, we have been doing just great w/intials.....but, enuff said. As long as rules are being followed as a mod my hands are tied...as a poster, I will post my opinions and that's what I am doing here :)OK...It is dropped and I won't mention it again. Let's hope others do the same. :mad: I didn't bring it up in the first place! (See post #194 for explanation.)
Sorry, I thought I WAS following the rules! :confused:
That could only be AR or Jacques, my recollection is that it was AR who wrote that.
That reference was in an email from Chvy_21 to AR. It was 'chevy pickup' that used the 'c' word, in reference to Brooke's sister.
ETA:
http://www.websleuths.com/adnoid/bennett/Brooke%20Bennett%20Affidavit%20Jul%203%20emails.pd f
SailorMoon
07-11-2008, 05:01 PM
On the funeral....a lot of these cases and people pull at our heart strings and while I'm not able to attend....I like to see and hear the service and grieve as well. I was going to say pay my respects, but the family has no idea I'm viewing, but I do appreciate them broadcasting them so that we can see and grieve too. Make any sense?????
I don't get the fascination with identifying, name or trying to ID who these minors are or who people are in funeral photographs, or what their relationship is to the key players. it seems totally irrelevant to the case.
But, I also thought it was highly inappropriate for the funeral to be broadcast on TV and fror the media to be allowed to freely take photos.
I guess I come from the dying breed who think that unless you are a head of state or a celebrity that a funeral is a solemn and private matter that is not compatible with TV cameras and photographers.
Elley Mae
07-11-2008, 05:04 PM
I'm sorry if I caused a problem being curious about CJ its not that I wanted his name just the first I had heard that she had a boyfriend I was (glad to hear that he is in Texas) better she was looking forward to seeing him and not gagnon, Again sorry for problem.
NewMom2003
07-11-2008, 05:09 PM
Is there a thread or post someone can please point me towards that gives me a brief overview of Brooke's case. I'm getting confused trying to go through posts to piece things together.
I know MJ is Brooke's uncle and RG is her former step-father. Are they both being held on murder charges or just pornography? Were they in this together?
Thanks in advance. I'm coming to Brooke's story late. :(
Medea
07-11-2008, 05:09 PM
On the funeral....a lot of these cases and people pull at our heart strings and while I'm not able to attend....I like to see and hear the service and grieve as well. I was going to say pay my respects, but the family has no idea I'm viewing, but I do appreciate them broadcasting them so that we can see and grieve too. Make any sense?????
I understand that people get emotionally involved and want to feel a part of things, so I can see why people would want to see the funeral. But, truth is, people want to see all kinds of things that are inappropriate. I'm sure if they televised executions they would get fantastic ratings. But, its not appropriate, neither is televising the funderal of a 12 year old girl who died under horrific circumstances.
But, like I said, I'm old fashioned. I don't agree with the need to report verbatim graphic information or for the public to see the autopsy reports or all kinds of voyeristic things that are done in the name of the public's right to know or society's increasingly narcissistic tendency of posting/photographing/blogging about what used to be private life.
Elley Mae, I was also curious about the "cj" initials, for whatever reason. (I can assure everyone, it was nothing sinister, just curiousity as part of following the case.) I thought I'd resolved that it may be Brooke's 9 yr old cousin, AR's sister. I'd never even considered her little half-brother.
BTW, :Welcome-12-june: to WS to you! And, any other new members I've missed! :)
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 05:20 PM
The woman hugging the girls is Evangaline the mother of the Andress girls and probably aunt to the other in the picture girl in the picture.
Are the Andress girls half sisters of Savanna?
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 05:21 PM
I understand that people get emotionally involved and want to feel a part of things, so I can see why people would want to see the funeral. But, truth is, people want to see all kinds of things that are inappropriate. I'm sure if they televised executions they would get fantastic ratings. But, its not appropriate, neither is televising the funderal of a 12 year old girl who died under horrific circumstances.
But, like I said, I'm old fashioned. I don't agree with the need to report verbatim graphic information or for the public to see the autopsy reports or all kinds of voyeristic things that are done in the name of the public's right to know or society's increasingly narcissistic tendency of posting/photographing/blogging about what used to be private life.We aren't exactly normal people here. We are about as involved in these cases as you can get without actually being a part of LE or the media. We got into this case because we had a missing 12 year old girl who vanished under suspicious circumstances. When we get into a case that takes such obvious horrific turns, we are going to continue to investigate. We also become very emotionally involved because we do care about the people we come to "know" on a certain level. It is hard not to.
If a person is adverse to investigating everything that comes out in a case...they need to understand it is what we do here. We research every detail and try to piece together what actually took place. Sometimes the details are very gruesome, but they are essential parts of the investigation. They wouldn't be released if there were not some logical reason for LE having done so. I don't consider us as "voyeristic" or as having a "narcissistic tendency of posting/photographing/blogging about what used to be private life".
I don't know of many high profile cases where they don't show the funeral or at least the people coming and going. It may not fall under the public's right to know, but I haven't heard many families who are truly offended by it either. The public is and has been notably supportive of the families in such cases.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 05:21 PM
Whomever wrote the email that referred to her as a c***.
I think that was AR
On the funeral....a lot of these cases and people pull at our heart strings and while I'm not able to attend....I like to see and hear the service and grieve as well. I was going to say pay my respects, but the family has no idea I'm viewing, but I do appreciate them broadcasting them so that we can see and grieve too. Make any sense?????
I think that's why a lot of families decide to allow tv cameras --- because they realize they received a lot of media attention to their loved one's case; which thus generated many people nationwide becoming emotionally invested in their loved one.
I think families of crime victims have the right to those choices, and for me personally, I fully respect their decisions. (So yes, it makes sense to me!)
NewMom2003
07-11-2008, 05:25 PM
Questions?
Denise is Jacques' wife? Does she support him? Is she involved?
AR is Denise's daughter. Is that correct?
Denise and Brooke's mom are sisters. Is that correct?
I'm so confused. :confused:
Medea
07-11-2008, 05:27 PM
We aren't exactly normal people here. We are about as involved in these cases as you can get without actually being a part of LE or the media. We got into this case because we had a missing 12 year old girl who vanished under suspicious circumstances. When we get into a case that takes such obvious horrific turns, we are going to continue to investigate. We also become very emotionally involved because we do care about the people we come to "know" on a certain level. It is hard not to.
If a person is adverse to investigating everything that comes out in a case...they need to understand it is what we do here. We research every detail and try to piece together what actually took place. Sometimes the details are very gruesome, but they are essential parts of the investigation. They wouldn't be released if there were not some logical reason for LE having done so. I don't consider us as "voyeristic" or as having a "narcissistic tendency of posting/photographing/blogging about what used to be private life".
I don't know of many high profile cases where they don't show the funeral or at least the people coming and going. It may not fall under the public's right to know, but I haven't heard many families who are truly offended by it either. The public is and has been notably supportive of the families in such cases.
We're going to to have to agree to disagree on the relevance of knowing the names of various minors and relatives in photos, AR's half sister's names, and so forth in terms of the actual case of Brooke Bennett's abduction and murder. The only exception I would make is information on AR's boyfriend because he IS involved in the case and information about him could be helpful to figure out what he might have known or not known, but he's a minor and so far LE hasn't given the faintest hint that he had any knowledge of Brooke's fate.
I wasn't speaking of this web site as voyeristic and narcissistic, more of the FaceBooke/MySpace generation that will post and blog about the most private information, their sex lives, drug use, post photos of themselves in compromising situations and seemly not care that it will be available for anyone who has a mind to find it forever.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 05:32 PM
Questions?
Denise is Jacques' wife? Does she support him? Is she involved?
AR is Denise's daughter. Is that correct?
Denise and Brooke's mom are sisters. Is that correct?
I'm so confused. :confused:
Yes Denise is Jacques wife,.. we have no CLEAR idea if she supports him or is involved,.. but IMO I think she is supporting him and she KNEW way more than she let on
AR is Denise's daughter from a previous marriage
and Denise and Cassandra (BRooke's mom) are sister, but I recently found out that they aren't even blood related. There mom's and dad's are both different but they grew up together
Thank you ZOOL!
You are very welcome, Rhett!
lightinthedark
07-11-2008, 05:38 PM
Yes Denise is Jacques wife,.. we have no CLEAR idea if she supports him or is involved,.. but IMO I think she is supporting him and she KNEW way more than she let on
AR is Denise's daughter from a previous marriage
and Denise and Cassandra (BRooke's mom) are sister, but I recently found out that they aren't even blood related. There mom's and dad's are both different but they grew up together
I heard that Denise is NOT supportive of MJ. I'm not sure if it's true or not though.
christine2448
07-11-2008, 05:39 PM
We aren't exactly normal people here. We are about as involved in these cases as you can get without actually being a part of LE or the media. We got into this case because we had a missing 12 year old girl who vanished under suspicious circumstances. When we get into a case that takes such obvious horrific turns, we are going to continue to investigate. We also become very emotionally involved because we do care about the people we come to "know" on a certain level. It is hard not to.
If a person is adverse to investigating everything that comes out in a case...they need to understand it is what we do here. We research every detail and try to piece together what actually took place. Sometimes the details are very gruesome, but they are essential parts of the investigation. They wouldn't be released if there were not some logical reason for LE having done so. I don't consider us as "voyeristic" or as having a "narcissistic tendency of posting/photographing/blogging about what used to be private life".
I do not agree w/how the funeral was handled or the children being 'displayed'.......however,
:clap::clap::clap:That is a rockin' post SS! So true! I especially liked your first line. :crazy:
NewMom2003
07-11-2008, 05:46 PM
Yes Denise is Jacques wife,.. we have no CLEAR idea if she supports him or is involved,.. but IMO I think she is supporting him and she KNEW way more than she let on
AR is Denise's daughter from a previous marriage
and Denise and Cassandra (BRooke's mom) are sister, but I recently found out that they aren't even blood related. There mom's and dad's are both different but they grew up together
Thank you so much for the info!
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 05:50 PM
Ain't it the truth, Christine?! LOL I know many that love to read real life crime novels, but not any that sleuth them like we do. I would say that makes us not the norm. :crazy:
I think that was AR
(c) A June 20, 2008, an email from a person using the email address "ChevyPickup" <*******@*********> to JUVENILE 1 states:
Friday, June 20, 2008, 2:02 pm
From: "ChevyPickup <*******@*********>
To: [JUVENILE 1 email address"]
2nd paragraph of this email on page 11 and 12 of affadavit ("http://www.websleuths.com/adnoid/bennett/Brooke%20Bennett%20Affidavit%20Jul%203%20emails.pd f)
"I suppose you already heard, but C wants to postpone Monday now until Wednesday or Thursday. I kind of agree because that way you won't have to worry about you aunt showing up or anything, plus the c*** Savanna works those days too."
evelyn24
07-11-2008, 05:56 PM
(c) A June 20, 2008, an email from a person using the email address "ChevyPickup" <*******@*********> to JUVENILE 1 states:
Friday, June 20, 2008, 2:02 pm
From: "ChevyPickup <*******@*********>
To: [JUVENILE 1 email address"]
2nd paragraph of this email on page 11 and 12 of affadavit ("http://www.websleuths.com/adnoid/bennett/Brooke%20Bennett%20Affidavit%20Jul%203%20emails.pd f)
"I suppose you already heard, but C wants to postpone Monday now until Wednesday or Thursday. I kind of agree because that way you won't have to worry about your aunt showing up or anything plus that c*** Savanna works those days too."
Ah, ok..it was MJ who called Savanna the "c" word.
Thank you so much for the info!
NewMom2003,
Here are two helpful items. The first will take you to the Times Argus where the "related articles" are also good for background.
The second is a fairly decent cribsheet.
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080705/NEWS01/807050339
http://3qs.homestead.com/files/images/familymap-003.JPG
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 06:03 PM
Ah, ok..it was MJ who called Savanna the "c" word.
I wonder why he would call her that? Maybe bc he "tried" something and she turned him down. Or maybe it has to do with AR not speaking to Savanna? I still would like to know why that was the case. I am wondering if Brooke knew about everything through AR and then Brooke told Savanna some stuff and Savanna told AR she was sick. JMO But you know I think that Savanna is the type that would have said SOMETHING to SOMEONE if she knew. JMO
I just wanted it to be clear, since Juvenile 1 has already being accused of more than enough; without any extra defamatory claims being attributed to her.
I am questioning in my mind just how will this juvenile's life ever go on? With people all over the country knowing, to some extent, some of the rather lurid details of things she's said; thought; and done (or said she'd done); and fantasized about doing. How can this teenager bare to even show her face around her own family? School? Town? Anywhere?
Truly, I cannot perceive how it's possible.
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 06:20 PM
I just wanted it to be clear, since Juvenile 1 has already being accused of more than enough; without any extra defamatory claims being attributed to her.
I am questioning in my mind just how will this juvenile's life ever go on? With people all over the country knowing, to some extent, some of the rather lurid details of things she's said; thought; and done (or said she'd done); and fantasized about doing. How can this teenager bare to even show her face around her own family? School? Town? Anywhere?
Truly, I cannot perceive how it's possible.
Yes especially in her town. Everyone HAS to know who AR is,.. considering most of us here do. And IF she really did go to the funeral, all the eyes and accusations on her.
Let me just say though,.. I BELIEVE she is victim in all of this. EVEN if she helped with "the take down". She has been manipulated from the time she was 9 (maybe even earlier). Who knows what she was told and what she has ACTUAL been through. I feel really bad for her bc she has lost her innocence and everything she believed in her life has been a farce. JMO
Yes especially in her town. Everyone HAS to know who AR is,.. considering most of us here do. And IF she really did go to the funeral, all the eyes and accusations on her.
Let me just say though,.. I BELIEVE she is victim in all of this. EVEN if she helped with "the take down". She has been manipulated from the time she was 9 (maybe even earlier). Who knows what she was told and what she has ACTUAL been through. I feel really bad for her bc she has lost her innocence and everything she believed in her life has been a farce. JMO
Absolutely!
This was posted this morning in Up to the Minute Section The Establishment Paedophile: How a Monster hid in High Society (http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/826056/the-establishment-paedophile-how-a-monster-hid-in-high-society.thtml) it is everywhere...there are so many of these sick #@%$s out there! Look how much time he rec'd :eek: Long disturbing article at link.
Roger Took was sentenced this February to a minimum of four and a half years in prison as part of an indeterminate sentence for 17 other crimes relating to child abuse.
ETA..I removed most of my post...after reading it, it's just too much to have on the public board IMO. If you want to read it you can click the link. It is truly disturbing. The only reason I am posting is to show it is EVERYWHERE. These monsters are from all walks of life.
as disgusting as that was to read, thank you for posting it. some people STILL believe that these things do not happen. when will people wake up! and the prison sentence?! enraging! :furious:
DianeB
07-11-2008, 06:26 PM
I wonder why he would call her that? I'm thinking MJ skeeved her out as much as he skeeves us out, and she may have made no bones about it. If that's the case, I'm glad somebody in that immediate circle had a functioning creepometer.
Starr58
07-11-2008, 06:26 PM
"Before Vermont lawmakers act on predators read this"
This is a blog posted at the Burlington Free Press website that has exerpts from the affidavitt of the 1992 rape of a woman in Rutland by MJ.
Sickening!!!!!!!! The State of Vermont should be ashamed of releasing this POS from probation early and all people involved in that release should be fired, disbarred and/or removed from their positions!!
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=899485bfb00e48eea120c5dc4509418e&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=899485bfb00e48eea120c5dc4509418e&plckPostId=Blog%3a899485bfb00e48eea120c5dc4509418e Post%3ac3e3a8e3-23dc-4dd5-a483-e3b40733d2c1&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest
I wonder why he would call her that? Maybe bc he "tried" something and she turned him down. Or maybe it has to do with AR not speaking to Savanna? I still would like to know why that was the case. I am wondering if Brooke knew about everything through AR and then Brooke told Savanna some stuff and Savanna told AR she was sick. JMO But you know I think that Savanna is the type that would have said SOMETHING to SOMEONE if she knew. JMO
When reading through the 18-page affidavit, there are several anomalies which caught my eye. One of those was the expression "going to party" verses "at the party". Perhaps it is a typographical error on the part of someone [note: I will have to locate the reference to say just who] at one point however it could be exactly what it was intended to be i.e. going to party. Further on in reading, we learn from an exchange between E and AR, that AR's "plan" calls for Brooke to be inticed by the prospects of having sex with Sam who theoretical has the "hots" for Brooke.
All this seems to contradict the belief that Brooke was naive, or was an innocent player in the upcoming events leading into June 25. Perhaps she was partly mentally prepared but also wary.
I just wanted it to be clear, since Juvenile 1 has already being accused of more than enough; without any extra defamatory claims being attributed to her.
I am questioning in my mind just how will this juvenile's life ever go on? With people all over the country knowing, to some extent, some of the rather lurid details of things she's said; thought; and done (or said she'd done); and fantasized about doing. How can this teenager bare to even show her face around her own family? School? Town? Anywhere?
Truly, I cannot perceive how it's possible.
I certainly do not want her anywhere near any of my young children. I do not believe that she could ever be reprogramed. And even if she were, her background would still be repugnant. I am old-fashioned and unforgiving.
Carrington
07-11-2008, 06:35 PM
Sometimes LE needs a push in the right direction. I do believe they read here as does the media. And, sometimes toes get stepped on. We are not the showboats, we are the behind the scenes investigators that put it all together from different sources to make sure each and every criminal gets his/her due.
I didn't agree with the overly public display of the children especially since as far as I'm concerned their are still more players involved. Just my opinion.
SS wonderful post!
DianeB
07-11-2008, 06:40 PM
I noticed that discrepancy, too. 'Going to party' can involve as few as two or three people, whereas 'going to a party' usually means at least several people will be there.
Starr58, thank you for posting the link to that blog. I am astonished that anyone who read the case file would consider for a single moment releasing that piece of filth after only four years, let alone agreeing to terminate his probation seven years early.
I don't care what kind of "rehabilitation" Jacques underwent, as the blog points out he was raping a child throughout the entire process.
I can only imagine how horrifying it must be for the 1992 victim to have all of these details dredged up after all these years. I hope she has been able to come to at least some level of healing.
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 06:40 PM
Thanks, Carrington. :)
VTNance
07-11-2008, 06:46 PM
I wonder why he would call her that? Maybe bc he "tried" something and she turned him down. Or maybe it has to do with AR not speaking to Savanna? I still would like to know why that was the case. I am wondering if Brooke knew about everything through AR and then Brooke told Savanna some stuff and Savanna told AR she was sick. JMO But you know I think that Savanna is the type that would have said SOMETHING to SOMEONE if she knew. JMO
Are you referring to that pic on MySpace of S. with another girl in green shirts, like at a bowling alley or something? I think a lot of people reading a lot into that because they think it is AR. But it is not AR. I'm only saying this so people may stop reading a lot into it.
I certainly do not want her anywhere near any of my young children. I do not believe that she could ever be reprogramed. And even if she were, her background would still be repugnant. I am old-fashioned and unforgiving.
I can surely understand that, and can't say that I'd want her anywhere near my grandchild. I am concerned about the sibling that resides with her and hope their 'mother' has her eyes wide open now. It does appear that MJ was quite effective in grooming AR, to become like him. Either that or she's a darn good actress.
I'm kind of old-fashioned, too, but I'm not completely unforgiving.
cheko1
07-11-2008, 06:49 PM
I'm just sickened by this whole story. Why isn't castration considered for these offenders? Obviously the recidivism rate is almost 100% for these pedophiles, and it seems to me this would reduce that to almost nil, while avoiding the whole "death penalty" discussion. Don't these crimes deserve a castration? Could anything be more heinous than incest with little children? AHHHH!!!
I guess our PC society and "civil rights" stances seem to take precedence over the safety of our children.
Welcome to WS grapejuice!!!!
I noticed that discrepancy, too. 'Going to party' can involve as few as two or three people, whereas 'going to a party' usually means at least several people will be there.
<SNIP>
.
DianeB,
"going to party" means a lot more than what you have defined. "going to party" is using the street vernacular for "having sex".
christine2448
07-11-2008, 06:53 PM
Sometimes LE needs a push in the right direction. I do believe they read here as does the media.
I know for a FACT LE and media read here....and don't forget, there are criminals, prosecutors and attorney's also that read here ;)
Ditto! :Welcome-12-june: grapejuice! :)
But ....
Castration, my arse!
How bout a beheading?!
DianeB
07-11-2008, 07:00 PM
DianeB,
"going to party" means a lot more than what you have defined. "going to party" is using the street vernacular for "having sex".It certainly can mean that, but it doesn't have to include sex - the kids I work with say things like "We partied this weekend" all the time, but when you ask them what they mean they'll tell you they threw on a DVD and lit up the bong...
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 07:03 PM
Are you referring to that pic on MySpace of S. with another girl in green shirts, like at a bowling alley or something? I think a lot of people reading a lot into that because they think it is AR. But it is not AR. I'm only saying this so people may stop reading a lot into it.
no,.. I know that is not her. I thought it was posted somewhere here that AR and Savanna didn't get along? :waitasec:
Maybe the reason it was posted on here is bc people assumed that was AR when infact it isn't. JMO
SeriouslySearching
07-11-2008, 07:08 PM
It must be what part of the country you are from as to what the terminology means. Here, when someone says they are "going to party"...it usually means to drink alcohol with friends. I think you guys are reading too much into those three words myself. The fake Sam person was mentioned to be coming in "early to set up for the party". Sounds like a fake birthday party for Brooke to me and nothing as sinister as you are making it out to be that Brooke would have gone along with.
It certainly can mean that, but it doesn't have to include sex - the kids I work with say things like "We partied this weekend" all the time, but when you ask them what they mean they'll tell you they threw on a DVD and lit up the bong...
DianeB,
That's a good distinction, and one that will undoubtedly be analyzed during court depending upon who said it, or wrote it.
However since the greater portion of the affidavit is centered around vulgarity, and pornography, I choose to believe the vernacular. What is "lit up the bong"? Smoke dope?
CarpeDiem
07-11-2008, 07:10 PM
DianeB,
"going to party" means a lot more than what you have defined. "going to party" is using the street vernacular for "having sex".
Not with my teens. To "party" means there's going to be a group of them, music and maybe food. Set up for a "party" like that was also discussed in spinning the web of lies to Brooke, why she was going to go early. Not for a sex party. And I don't think Brooke was going because she was wanting to have sex with the kid. There was a cute boy whom she thought was interested in her, she was 12!
CarpeDiem
07-11-2008, 07:12 PM
Sounds like a fake birthday party for Brooke to me and nothing as sinister as you are making it out to be that Brooke would have gone along with.
I agree. Are we back to the emails are all in code talk again?
christine2448
07-11-2008, 07:13 PM
Thought I'd post this for new and old....WS hosts a chat room for real time case talk 24/7 :D
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53325
Hailiejade77
07-11-2008, 07:14 PM
It must be what part of the country you are from as to what the terminology means. Here, when someone says they are "going to party"...it usually means to drink alcohol with friends. I think you guys are reading too much into those three words myself. The fake Sam person was mentioned to be coming in "early to set up for the party". Sounds like a fake birthday party for Brooke to me and nothing as sinister as you are making it out to be that Brooke would have gone along with.
yeah,.. wasn't "Sam's" bday the same day as Brooke's?
It must be what part of the country you are from as to what the terminology means. Here, when someone says they are "going to party"...it usually means to drink alcohol with friends. I think you guys are reading too much into those three words myself. The fake Sam person was mentioned to be coming in "early to set up for the party". Sounds like a fake birthday party for Brooke to me and nothing as sinister as you are making it out to be that Brooke would have gone along with.
SeriouslySearching,
Almost every television show with mini-clad streetwalkers stepping from curbs, and poking their heads into passenger windows, have them saying, "Hey, wanna party?"
Why have I misinterpreted this? :rolleyes:
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