View Full Version : Brooke Bennett, 12 years old Randolph VT #20
christine2448
07-12-2008, 02:43 PM
Please continue GENERAL discussions here. Look around BROOKE'S FORUM (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=163)there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.
I advise everyone to read the RULES of WS, Long (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66869)and Short Version (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66872)and also to read THIS STICKY (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67094) before participating. TIA.
Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.
Welcome all newbies!!!!!!!!!!!! :blowkiss: I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 02:47 PM
Please continue GENERAL discussions here.
TY christine!
philamena
07-12-2008, 02:49 PM
Great, :banghead: I just lost a longgg post. lol
Again, AR has been a victim, of sexual abuse since the age of 8.
It is against the TOS to bash her and I am not afraid to hit the alert button. :blush:
How dare people HERE question if Brooke was sexually active.
Wt is wrong with people? She was only12 years old.
Do gossip mongers have a son or daughter 12 years old?? Think about it.:mad:
I find this infuriating.
My comments are regarding post made yesterday.
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 02:51 PM
There is something off with the entire mugshot thing. The only thing I can figure is that the Feds do not want someone(s) to see his face and tip them off. If RG was involved someway in a larger operation, he may not have used his real name...but people might recognize his face, react and get rid of their computers, drives, etc.
Something is way off, hopefully we will learn the "why" soon!
Hailiejade77
07-12-2008, 02:55 PM
And it was on July 12th MJ was convicted, two years prior to Brookes birth
Conviction Information
Sexual Offense Conviction(s) Date of Conviction 07-12-1993
* AGGRAVATED SEXUAL ASSAULT
* KIDNAPPING
OMG,.. I didn't even realize that two years before her birthday he was convicted!
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 02:57 PM
And it was on July 12th MJ was convicted, two years prior to Brookes birth
Conviction Information
Sexual Offense Conviction(s) Date of Conviction 07-12-1993
* AGGRAVATED SEXUAL ASSAULT
* KIDNAPPING
OMG,.. I didn't even realize that two years before her birthday he was convicted!
Yes, I guess I could have not mentioned that, but it was listed on his Vermont Registry records that no longer are there!
Here is what WAS there:
http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/servlet/SOR?id=X000005393 (http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/servlet/SOR?id=X000005393)
VERMONT SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY
INFORMATION
State of Vermont | Vermont Department of Public Safety | Division of Criminal Justice Services
Registry Detail
(http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/images/X000005393.jpeg (http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/images/X000005393.jpeg))
Registrant Information
Name: JACQUES,MICHAEL STEPHEN
Date of Birth: 03-18-1966
City: RANDOLPH CENTER
Sex: M
Race: W
Height: 5 feet 08 inches
Weight: 150 lbs
Eye Color: BLU
Hair Color: BRO
Treatment Status: COMPLIANT
Wanted: NO
Reason For Internet Posting
Conviction For Aggravated Sexual Assault
Department Of Corrections
Supervising Office & Phone#
No longer supervised for sexual crime
Conviction Information
Sexual Offense Conviction(s) Date of Conviction
AGGRAVATED SEXUAL ASSAULT 07-12-1993
KIDNAPPING 07-12-1993
Vermont Sex Offender Registry Home Page
Department of Public Safety Home | State of Vermont Home Page | Email Webmaster
Copyright 2004 The Vermont Department of Public Safety - All rights reserved -
Database as of: Jun 28 2008 at 01:00 am
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 03:01 PM
It being Brooke's 13th birthday, I am so sorry she is not here to enjoy it. It is so sad.
Brooke was such an innocent victim.
Hailiejade, I hope it is next July 12 when MJ is convicted and sent to death row.
philamena
07-12-2008, 03:03 PM
Has LE, a reporter, a local, a relative, anyone explained why no recent pictures of MG are available? What about his mug shot? I can't find a picture of him anywhere.
Hailiejade77
07-12-2008, 03:04 PM
It being Brooke's 13th birthday, I am so sorry she is not here to enjoy it. It is so sad.
Brooke was such an innocent victim.
Hailiejade, I hope it is next July 12 when MJ is convicted and sent to death row.
And then maybe another July 12th he will be PUT TO DEATH!:woohoo:
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 03:06 PM
Has LE, a reporter, a local, a relative, anyone explained why no recent pictures of MG are available? What about his mug shot? I can't find a picture of him anywhere.
You mean RG?
I posted about RG before the new thread was started. I don't think I was supposed to - those posts should have been on the RG thread, I think.
Too many different threads! I did not mean to post where I may not should have!
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 03:07 PM
And then maybe another July 12th he will be PUT TO DEATH!:woohoo:
That would be great, IMO! And I am not usually even for the death penalty!
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 03:10 PM
[QUOTE=Tom'sGirl;2375298]Yes, I guess I could have not mentioned that, but it was listed on his Vermont Registry records that no longer are there!
Here is what WAS there:
[FONT=verdana][FONT=verdana]http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/servlet/SOR?id=X000005393 (http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/servlet/SOR?id=X000005393)
VERMONT SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY
INFORMATION
State of Vermont | Vermont Department of Public Safety | Division of Criminal Justice Services
Registry Detail
(http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/images/X000005393.jpeg (http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/images/X000005393.jpeg))
Registrant Information
Name: JACQUES,MICHAEL STEPHEN
Date of Birth: 03-18-1966
City: RANDOLPH CENTER
Sex: M
Race: W
Height: 5 feet 08 inches
Weight: 150 lbs
Eye Color: BLU
Hair Color: BRO
Treatment Status: COMPLIANT
Wanted: NO
Reason For Internet Posting
Conviction For Aggravated Sexual Assault
Department Of Corrections
Supervising Office & Phone#
No longer supervised for sexual crime
Conviction Information
Sexual Offense Conviction(s) Date of Conviction
AGGRAVATED SEXUAL ASSAULT 07-12-1993
[FONT=verdana]KIDNAPPING 07-12-1993
Vermont Sex Offender Registry Home Page
Department of Public Safety Home | State of Vermont Home Page | Email Webmaster
Copyright 2004 The Vermont Department of Public Safety - All rights reserved -
Database as of: Jun 28 2008 at 01:00 am
Thanks, Tom'sGirl, for posting that. I had 'saved' that also, only to go back and see that it was gone.
Talk about travesty of justice! That POS was out walking free to be able to do even worse!
SeriouslySearching
07-12-2008, 03:11 PM
It is hard to think that today is Brooke's Birthday. :(
philamena
07-12-2008, 03:12 PM
You mean RG?
I posted about RG before the new thread was started. I don't think I was supposed to - those posts should have been on the RG thread, I think.
Too many different threads! I did not mean to post where I may not should have!
Now honey you did just fine.
:blowkiss:
I'm trying to play catch up from yesterday.
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 03:14 PM
[quote=LaLaw2000;2375316 Thanks, Tom'sGirl, for posting that. I had 'saved' that also, only to go back and see that it was gone.
Talk about travesty of justice! That POS was out walking free to be able to do even worse!
[/QUOTE]I have put the info. into the MJ thread also.
SeriouslySearching
07-12-2008, 03:14 PM
Something is way off, hopefully we will learn the "why" soon!Yes, it is way off. It reminds me of the Stacy Peterson case and LE hiding Tom...but the difference is that we know Tom is a state's witness. Are they going to let Ray Gagnon walk on this if he gives them the information that will put MJ up to face the DP?!
philamena
07-12-2008, 03:16 PM
SNIP
Here is what WAS there:
[font=verdana][font=verdana][FONT=verdana]http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/servlet/SOR?id=X000005393 (http://170.222.137.2:8080/sor/servlet/SOR?id=X000005393)
I wonder if we will ever know how many innocent lives he's ruined! What a creep.
IMO The state of Vermont made a huge mistake when it freed this predator.
SeriouslySearching
07-12-2008, 03:19 PM
I wonder if we will ever know how many innocent lives he's ruined! What a creep.
IMO The state of Vermont made a huge mistake when it freed this predator.Very true, Philamena. (I like your siggy!)
philamena
07-12-2008, 03:20 PM
Yes, it is way off. It reminds me of the Peterson case and LE hiding Tom...but the difference is that we know Tom is a state's witness. Are they going to let Ray Gagnon walk on this if he gives them the information that will put MJ up to face the DP?!
Let's hope not.
Imo, RG is in this up to his eyeballs.
He knew what the creep was going to do to Brooke...he's an accessary after the fact if not someone who allowed a 12 year old to be murdered.
philamena
07-12-2008, 03:20 PM
Very true, Philamena. (I like your siggy!)
Glad you like it SeriouslySearching. :blowkiss:
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 03:22 PM
Now honey you did just fine.
:blowkiss:
I'm trying to play catch up from yesterday.
Ty!
:)
SeriouslySearching
07-12-2008, 03:27 PM
Great, :banghead: I just lost a longgg post. lol
Again, AR has been a victim, of sexual abuse since the age of 8.
It is against the TOS to bash her and I am not afraid to hit the alert button. :blush:
How dare people HERE question if Brooke was sexually active.
Wt is wrong with people? She was only12 years old.
Do gossip mongers have a son or daughter 12 years old?? Think about it.:mad:
I find this infuriating.
My comments are regarding post made yesterday.I am guilty of doing that last night. I was just so angry at the whole situation. I know that AR is a victim and I know that she was once an innocent little girl just like Brooke. I know I am really just angry with MJ and RG. They are the reason these girls are where they are today. The day cannot come soon enough when they inject MJ and we finally see some justice for both girls. I guess we will have to be satisfied with RG rotting in jail. (Wonder if he will get longer than four years?!)
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 03:29 PM
Yes, it is way off. It reminds me of the Peterson case and LE hiding Tom...but the difference is that we know Tom is a state's witness. Are they going to let Ray Gagnon walk on this if he gives them the information that will put MJ up to face the DP?!
That had better not happen! I do not think so, SS!
RG has, by his own admission downloaded thousands of CP images, and had a collection of Russian CP also of some children being as young as 5 years old!
THEN LE and FBI found where he had taken CP to his house in Alabama from Texas before going on to Vermont.
Maybe Gagnon has agreed to showing the FBI some of those sites where he had downloaded CP, tho. IMO, there is too much he HAS done for LE or FBI to let him walk! A reduced sentence, maybe. IMO only.
(is it okay to post this on this thread?)
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 03:34 PM
I am going over to read all of the threads to get caught up.
Hailiejade77
07-12-2008, 03:38 PM
Yes, it is way off. It reminds me of the Peterson case and LE hiding Tom...but the difference is that we know Tom is a state's witness. Are they going to let Ray Gagnon walk on this if he gives them the information that will put MJ up to face the DP?!
Who was Tom???
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 03:49 PM
Who was Tom???
Tom Morphey, Drew Peterson's step brother...........another case, not this one!
Hailiejade77
07-12-2008, 03:53 PM
Tom Morphey, Drew Peterson's step brother...........another case, not this one!
Oh I thought you were talking about Scott Peterson case,.. ha ha ,. I knew everything on the subject and was like oh who the heck is Tom.
was he the guy that helped him transport the blue container?
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 03:55 PM
I said this before when it was brought up that Jacques was no longer on the registry site for Vermont.
Jacques sex offender info from the registry is not listed any longer because he is not in the community.
He is is custody. therefore, his info on the registry is no longer provided to the public.
The registry is for offenders living in the public, not incarcerated ones.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 03:59 PM
I said this before when it was brought up that Jacques was no longer on the registry site for Vermont.
Jacques sex offender info from the registry is not listed any longer because he is not in the community.
He is is custody. therefore, his info on the registry is no longer provided to the public.
The registry is for offenders living in the public, not incarcerated ones.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
Hello, dark_shadows!
I have appreciated the information in your posts as you have an inside track, so to speak!
Is there any way you can ask someone if RG's present booking photo comes up looking anything like the pics posted and the pic that was in the newspaper today?
Thanks so much!!!
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 04:00 PM
I said this before when it was brought up that Jacques was no longer on the registry site for Vermont.
Jacques sex offender info from the registry is not listed any longer because he is not in the community.
He is is custody. therefore, his info on the registry is no longer provided to the public.
The registry is for offenders living in the public, not incarcerated ones.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
You sure did d_s, and it was appreciated when you did as so many of us wondered why it was gone. Most States don't remove them, so you cleared that up for us............thank you!
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 04:20 PM
Hello, dark_shadows!
I have appreciated the information in your posts as you have an inside track, so to speak!
Is there any way you can ask someone if RG's present booking photo comes up looking anything like the pics posted and the pic that was in the newspaper today?
Thanks so much!!!
Dearest LaLaw,:blowkiss:
It is nice to hear from you and I appreciate your posts very much.
I have asked for the photo days ago and I am still in the process of providing the booking photo for you.
The photo from my newspaper today and the other days are old photos.
Gagnon has been transferred a few times since his incarceration here in Vermont. He is in Chittenden right now, I posted that a few days ago.
He is being held in protective custody. He will remain there until thursday morning. The booking photo would not be from that facility. He had already been booked prior to his arrival there.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
DeltaDawn
07-12-2008, 04:24 PM
It being Brooke's 13th birthday, I am so sorry she is not here to enjoy it. It is so sad.
Brooke was such an innocent victim.
Hailiejade, I hope it is next July 12 when MJ is convicted and sent to death row.
Still catching up..watching even though logged in..doing other things in between.
But I had to respond to this post...I understand the number 12 being included, as I think in MJ's mind 12 was still innocent and 13 marked the birth of a teen. In porn circles up to 12 is considered kiddie porn..after that is teen porn..which I think fed into the summer program of AR.. graduating to just having sex with teens she dated and the farmers ( migrant workers) other then her Dad, family or whoever was a teen.
I think AR thought Brooke was taking her place in the program and she (AR) was moving up a level. This is borne out by one article or brief that read they are being held also on prostitution charges. So maybe they had already started to hook AR up with men that paid them money..what else
could her grooming be used for ..if MJ 's fixation was on the 8-12 year old.
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 04:26 PM
You sure did d_s, and it was appreciated when you did as so many of us wondered why it was gone. Most States don't remove them, so you cleared that up for us............thank you!
My very dear sweet TomsGirl,:blowkiss:
I have said this to you before, and I will say it again.....
I am so very proud of you and the work that you do. You have spent countless hours keeping everyone here informed. I am so very grateful my friend.
You greeted me when I first registered here.:)
You mean so much to me and others. Again, I am so very proud of you.
So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows
Starr58
07-12-2008, 04:30 PM
First I would Like to invite other WS's to post their ideas for our lawmakers and Governor Douglas to consider. This can be done in the "Demand Change In Vermont Law" Forum.
1. Include all offenders on the Sex Offender Registry not just those in the Community and include release dates from both probation and incarceration. Sex Offenders need to be "registered" For LIFE.
2.Address of Sex offender. It isn't enough to know who they are. In order to protect children the public needs to know where they are !!!
3. Make the Registry more user friendly. Change from it being searchable by county to be searchable by last name & first name. Similiar to the inmate Locator database.
4. Sex Offender Registry should be a part of the Department of Corrections website. Put all names into one database. Inmates and Sex Offenders.
5. Update Registry Information monthly. This can be accomplished through the information that is gathered from the DOC staffs' monthly contact with offender. Date of contact recorded in registry.
6. Any child related offense- second offense- Can be held without bail.
7. Public notification of release on websites, in newspapers, TV. and Radio.
Those are what I have of the top of my head for improvements and would appreciate others thoughts.
dark shadows...what is our current Vermont Statues for Sexual Assault on a Child, Aggravated Sexual on a Child or any others that should be looked at.
PLease, Please..post responses in the Demand Change In Vermont Law" Forum
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 04:30 PM
Dearest LaLaw,:blowkiss:
It is nice to hear from you and I appreciate your posts very much.
I have asked for the photo days ago and I am still in the process of providing the booking photo for you.
The photo from my newspaper today and the other days are old photos.
Gagnon has been transferred a few times since his incarceration here in Vermont. He is in Chittenden right now, I posted that a few days ago.
He is being held in protective custody. He will remain there until thursday morning. The booking photo would not be from that facility. He had already been booked prior to his arrival there.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
:blowkiss:
Thank you so very much, dark_shadows!
I deleted my post finally because I was not wanting to ask you to do something you may not feel was right for me to ask you! (convoluted sentence!)
Thanks so much!
Elley Mae
07-12-2008, 04:33 PM
I was wandering if RG has retained council and stopped talking or is still talking.
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 04:35 PM
Still catching up..watching even though logged in..doing other things in between.
But I had to respond to this post...I understand the number 12 being included, as I think in MJ's mind 12 was still innocent and 13 marked the birth of a teen. In porn circles up to 12 is considered kiddie porn..after that is teen porn..which I think fed into the summer program of AR.. graduating to just having sex with teens she dated and the farmers ( migrant workers) other then her Dad, family or whoever was a teen.
I think AR thought Brooke was taking her place in the program and she (AR) was moving up a level. This is borne out by one article or brief that read they are being held also on prostitution charges. So maybe they had already started to hook AR up with men that paid them money..what else
could her grooming be used for ..if MJ 's fixation was on the 8-12 year old.
Thanks, DeltaDawn, for sheding a new light on it for me. Age 12 is also the age of acountability.
This is so sick!! It is a wonder that MJ ever had time for work or could keep his mind on work because of spending so much time dreaming up all of this
s--t! Sick POS!
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 04:40 PM
I wouls like to ask a question here and seek the help of our geneology members if I may, or from anyone else who would know where to find the answer to my question. It has to do with certain people here in Vermont and a man in New York who is well known here and that people here would travel to New York to hear speak.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 04:45 PM
I wouls like to ask a question here and seek the help of our geneology members if I may, or from anyone else who would know where to find the answer to my question. It has to do with certain people here in Vermont and a man in New York who is well known here and that people here would travel to New York to hear speak.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Busylady isn't online right now, but perhaps you could start with her and give her the names in a PM???
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 04:49 PM
Busylady isn't online right now, but perhaps you could start with her and give her the names in a PM???
My very dearest Tom'sGirl,:blowkiss:
Thank-you very much, I will do that.
But while I am waiting. I would like to say something that I have wanted to say for a while but have held back. If I may, I would like to post it.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 04:52 PM
But while I am waiting. I would like to say something that I have wanted to say for a while but have held back. If I may, I would like to post it.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Looking forward to your post!
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 04:55 PM
Dearest LaLaw,:blowkiss:
It is nice to hear from you and I appreciate your posts very much.
I have asked for the photo days ago and I am still in the process of providing the booking photo for you.
The photo from my newspaper today and the other days are old photos.
Gagnon has been transferred a few times since his incarceration here in Vermont. He is in Chittenden right now, I posted that a few days ago.
He is being held in protective custody. He will remain there until thursday morning. The booking photo would not be from that facility. He had already been booked prior to his arrival there.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Dark_shadows,
Has RG been booked at Chittenden before, and then all they would have to do is reactivate him in their system? Is the transfering RG around for court purposes just putting him as 'housed elsewhere' for the duration of court appearances?
Is there suspension of 'hall movement' when RG is walked on the hall (or the 'walk' as in prison lingo)?
I was wondering also if RG and MJ are allowed to have newspapers and are there TV's in the cell in PC? I would hate to think that he and MJ are reading or seeing anything about themselves! I am not familiar with how Vermont does the PC inmates. I know in the state where I live, PC inmates can even get food from the canteen and also have their newspapers. They are not limited as are the Administrative Lockdown inmates.
Sorry to bombard you with so many questions, but I was wondering about how it is in your state!
***Thank you in advance!
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 05:00 PM
My very dearest Tom'sGirl,:blowkiss:
Thank-you very much, I will do that.
But while I am waiting. I would like to say something that I have wanted to say for a while but have held back. If I may, I would like to post it.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
dark_shadows, I always appreciate your posts. I am interested in anything you have to say!
DeltaDawn
07-12-2008, 05:02 PM
Thanks, DeltaDawn, for shedding a new light on it for me. Age 12 is also the age of accountability.
This is so sick!! It is a wonder that MJ ever had time for work or could keep his mind on work because of spending so much time dreaming up all of this
s--t! Sick POS!
You mentioned MJ's having time to work..one of the incentives to releasing him from probation was due to his work..traveling world wide for the company. That made me sick when I heard that..many countries do not have the laws we do for pedos. Some have better laws..some have much worse laws. I thought How many young girls has he either watched or participated with in other countries engaged in this perverted sex?
He is a con man as well as a RSO of children and adults..still wondering about the charge with the 13 year old in 1985, which was not his sister..and we have records on.
I do not hold AR accountable for any of her acts..she thought her Mom and sister would die, her throat would be slashed..then later from mails possibly all of them...can you imagine the pressure on this child? Because they used the type of pressure that is family will die..I almost am certain she never thought that Brooke would be murdered..that is also her family. I think AR thought Brooke was her replacement in the Breckenridge program..and she was moving to a different phase.
This is all from the emails..and I admit that the emails seem to show that , but they aren't all the emails that were there certainly. Just enough to indite this bastard. He was given lots of opportunity to reform..but he just couldn't do that...therefore death is the only solution for him.
AR's whole life has been built on this fantasy world that was really a horror world the MJ created to keep her in tow. I find her the victim of him and all those so far included in this sex ring. She now has to deal with the fact people she thought were trying to hurt her and her Dad and family..were a figment of MJ's imagination to get her to comply...can you even imagine this world starting at 9 years old?
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 05:04 PM
Dark_shadows,
Has RG been booked at Chittenden before, and then all they would have to do is reactivate him in their system? Is the transfering RG around for court purposes just putting him as 'housed elsewhere' for the duration of court appearances?
Is there suspension of 'hall movement' when RG is walked on the hall (or the 'walk' as in prison lingo)?
I was wondering also if RG and MJ are allowed to have newspapers and are there TV's in the cell in PC? I would hate to think that he and MJ are reading or seeing anything about themselves! I am not familiar with how Vermont does the PC inmates. I know in the state where I live, PC inmates can even get food from the canteen and also have their newspapers. They are not limited as are the Administrative Lockdown inmates.
Sorry to bombard you with so many questions, but I was wondering about how it is in your state!
***Thank you in advance!
Dearest LaLaw,:blowkiss:
Gagnon was booked in Springfield, he went to Chittenden, to St. Albans and then back to Chittenden. Transfers do not have photos retaken since they are already in the system.
When I worked the unit that he is now housed in, they are not allowed newspapers, tv, ect.
Canteen items ordered would be hygiene and minutes on a calling card for the phone.
He would be placed alone and on 15 minute suicide checks. He would be in a cell alone providing the facility is not overcrowed.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 05:19 PM
You mentioned MJ's having time to work..one of the incentives to releasing him from probation was due to his work..traveling world wide for the company. That made me sick when I heard that..many countries do not have the laws we do for pedos. Some have better laws..some have much worse laws. I thought How many young girls has he either watched or participated with in other countries engaged in this perverted sex?
He is a con man as well as a RSO of children and adults..still wondering about the charge with the 13 year old in 1985, which was not his sister..and we have records on.
I do not hold AR accountable for any of her acts..she thought her Mom and sister would die, her throat would be slashed..then later from mails possibly all of them...can you imagine the pressure on this child? Because they used the type of pressure that is family will die..I almost am certain she never thought that Brooke would be murdered..that is also her family. I think AR thought Brooke was her replacement in the Breckenridge program..and she was moving to a different phase.
This is all from the emails..and I admit that the emails seem to show that , but they aren't all the emails that were there certainly. Just enough to indite this bastard. He was given lots of opportunity to reform..but he just couldn't do that...therefore death is the only solution for him.
AR's whole life has been built on this fantasy world that was really a horror world the MJ created to keep her in tow. I find her the victim of him and all those so far included in this sex ring. She now has to deal with the fact people she thought were trying to hurt her and her Dad and family..were a figment of MJ's imagination to get her to comply...can you even imagine this world starting at 9 years old?
DeltaDawn, I had to quote your whole post because it is so good. I see exactly where you are coming from, and I agree. Having said that, there is also another side to it.
The other side involves 'deprograming' AR. She could be classed a 'juvenile delinquent' by the system and be ordered to an inhouse program. I am so afraid that if it is not court ordered, AR will not get the help she needs. She is a victim in the worst way. She has been through too much in her 14 years. I do not trust Denise to follow through on seeing to AR's psychological rehabilitation.
AR's psyche is going to have to be torn down to the ground and rebuilt, IMO. She is going to have to get to the point in her therapy where she comes to terms with her actions. Only after she reaches this level, she can start her upward climb. It will be hard, I know, but she has to be taught right from wrong again, IMO.
While I feel sympathy for her, my greatest sympathy and feeling is concerning Brooke. She is the one who has paid the greatest price through no fault of her own.
I wonder if MJ has gone to Amsterdam, Russia, and the Dominican Republic, to name a few? You are so right - in some countries, MJ's actions short of murder, would be just fine and with no consequences.
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 05:20 PM
Dearest LaLaw,:blowkiss:
Gagnon was booked in Springfield, he went to Chittenden, to St. Albans and then back to Chittenden. Transfers do not have photos retaken since they are already in the system.
When I worked the unit that he is now housed in, they are not allowed newspapers, tv, ect.
Canteen items ordered would be hygiene and minutes on a calling card for the phone.
He would be placed alone and on 15 minute suicide checks. He would be in a cell alone providing the facility is not overcrowed.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Thank you for your answers, dark_shadows!
:blowkiss:
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 05:23 PM
Looking forward to your post!
My very dearest Tom'sGirl,:blowkiss:
I thank-you so much.
Well this has to do with current or past religion.
I can tell you that there have been many many inmates that I have encountered that were from Island Pond and he surrounding areas.
Both men and women that have been incarcerated for sexual abuse.
I will say that when the story first came out about Breckenridge, there was a poster who saw the word "President" and assumed that the Breckenridge Program was involving the President of the United States. No where in the emails does is say "The President of the United States". It simply says "the President". President of an organization.
Here is something that many "old school Vermonters" still partake in and it included Texas;
http://m.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080605/NEWS02/806050314/1001/NEWS&template=wapart
Robert Breckenridge;
http://home.twcny.rr.com/churches/lds.html
I know that Brooke's pastor was a Baptist. He appeared very detatched at Brooke's funeral. Was Jacques side of the family Latter Day Saints?
Stepping on shells her with the religion part.
But I do have to ask after reflecting back on the many inmates I saw with sexual assualts against children from the ones who still sexually abused so many children.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 05:24 PM
dark_shadows, just one last question - honest!!
Is RG in a 'paper dress' as he is on suicide watch as well as PC?
I would love to think of him in the paper dress!
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 05:34 PM
dark_shadows, just one last question - honest!!
Is RG in a 'paper dress' as he is on suicide watch as well as PC?
I would love to think of him in the paper dress!
Dearest LaLaw,:blowkiss:
He would not be in a paper dress. He would be in a suicide suit if Mental Health and security felt that it was a nessesary step.
The gown is made of tear proof cloth and it has velcro on the shoulders and down the back. It is quilted. They come in solid blue or solid green colors. It goes to the knees more or less. He is most likely on 10 or 15 minute suicide checks. If it was any more than that, he would be in a restaint chair on constant watch. He is in a unit, not a restraint chair though. I am just letting you know the options for suicide watch on an inmate here.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
believe09
07-12-2008, 05:37 PM
Just catching up on the threads here-we do not know that MJ planned to use his machine on Brooke although it is a fair assumption. The reason I am making the distinctions is that with the threads moving so quickly I am watching speculation posted as actual fact, and I was hoping to regroup some myself on what we actually know.
I am increasingly distraught that Denise and Cassandra seem to still have custody of minor children-also an assumption on my part, but it scares me. Granted, we do not have the whole story, but if one or both are not charged by next week, I would love to see us throw our energy at ensuring that changes ASAP!!!!!
Elley Mae
07-12-2008, 05:40 PM
Has anyone checked to see if the rental property,the house where the machine was delivered is/was occupied, and could this have been were the assault took place. Were the police ever there.
DeltaDawn
07-12-2008, 05:43 PM
Thanks ds for that info. Where will all this end, and when. Do people not understand that children are children and adults are adults..and that sex between the two is one of the oldest taboos..esspecialy within the family? WTH is going on in this country that sexual abuse and incest are now considered part of religion, freedom of choice or any other amendment they want to include? Does no one understand that what our fore fathers meant and what we read into the Constitution today are two very different things. If we need amendments that cover child abuse and sexual abuse..they are not part of freedom or religion..then lets change the Constitution so theses mentally unstable people cannot hide behind it. What kind of BS is that!!!
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 05:49 PM
Thank you, dark_shadows, for your answers to my questions! :)
DeltaDawn
07-12-2008, 05:53 PM
Just catching up on the threads here-we do not know that MJ planned to use his machine on Brooke although it is a fair assumption. The reason I am making the distinctions is that with the threads moving so quickly I am watching speculation posted as actual fact, and I was hoping to regroup some myself on what we actually know.
I am increasingly distraught that Denise and Cassandra seem to still have custody of minor children-also an assumption on my part, but it scares me. Granted, we do not have the whole story, but if one or both are not charged by next week, I would love to see us throw our energy at ensuring that changes ASAP!!!!!
I think that we can rest assured that the sex machine did have something to do with Brooke's torture and/or death or it would not have been in the affadavit from the FEDS. They would not have included anything that was not 100% part of this case. There are many missing emails and other info..but to include this machine in a Federal affadavit means it was used in this crime..rather they spell it out or not. If it hadn't been they would not have gone to the trouble to include it and find out when it was ordered, by whom it was ordered, when it was delivered and where it was delivered. They have alot more info to put together..they wouldn't have even wasted their time or the judges with something that was not part of this case.
Cassandra does not have any other minor children that we know of. I seriously doubt that Denise has AR with her. As far as C goes..she may be with Denise, but under constant protection and supervision by LE.
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 05:56 PM
Thank you, dark_shadows, for your answers to my questions! :)
My dearest LaLaw,:blowkiss:
Thank-you so much. I am grateful that you are here.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
d_s, the depth and breadth of your information never ceases to amaze me. :o
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 06:02 PM
My very dearest Tom'sGirl,:blowkiss:
I thank-you so much.
Well this has to do with current or past religion.
I can tell you that there have been many many inmates that I have encountered that were from Island Pond and he surrounding areas.
Both men and women that have been incarcerated for sexual abuse.
I will say that when the story first came out about Breckenridge, there was a poster who saw the word "President" and assumed that the Breckenridge Program was involving the President of the United States. No where in the emails does is say "The President of the United States". It simply says "the President". President of an organization.
Here is something that many "old school Vermonters" still partake in and it included Texas;
http://m.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080605/NEWS02/806050314/1001/NEWS&template=wapart
Robert Breckenridge;
http://home.twcny.rr.com/churches/lds.html
I know that Brooke's pastor was a Baptist. He appeared very detatched at Brooke's funeral. Was Jacques side of the family Latter Day Saints?
Stepping on shells her with the religion part.
But I do have to ask after reflecting back on the many inmates I saw with sexual assualts against children from the ones who still sexually abused so many children.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
I just finished reading the articles, dark_shadows. You really might have something there! I have also come in contact with some RSO's when I was working. I do know that there are a couple of RSO's in my area that are of that particular religion. We knew the names, and I just went back to the RSO site and found them when I did the 'city' search. One of them is and old man, and the other is not as old - middle aged.
I, too, would like to know if MJ's Dad was of that religion.
Thanks!
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 06:02 PM
Thanks ds for that info. Where will all this end, and when. Do people not understand that children are children and adults are adults..and that sex between the two is one of the oldest taboos..esspecialy within the family? WTH is going on in this country that sexual abuse and incest are now considered part of religion, freedom of choice or any other amendment they want to include? Does no one understand that what our fore fathers meant and what we read into the Constitution today are two very different things. If we need amendments that cover child abuse and sexual abuse..they are not part of freedom or religion..then lets change the Constitution so theses mentally unstable people cannot hide behind it. What kind of BS is that!!!
My dearest DeltaDawn,:blowkiss:
I am grateful for your post.
Thank-you.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 06:04 PM
d_s, the depth and breadth of your information never ceases to amaze me. :o
My very dear Lola,:blowkiss:
Your words mean alot to me and I appreciate you so very much.
So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows
DeltaDawn
07-12-2008, 06:06 PM
My dearest DeltaDawn,:blowkiss:
I am grateful for your post.
Thank-you.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
My dearest ds,
Right back at you..we have a mutual admiration society between us here.
I so appreciate your posts and your very informative statements about
inmates, laws and justice.
With great respect and love,
DD :blowkiss:
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 06:12 PM
Has anyone checked to see if the rental property,the house where the machine was delivered is/was occupied, and could this have been were the assault took place. Were the police ever there.
The rental property was supposedly next door to the newer house MJ and Denise lived in. I could be very wrong, but seems to me that one of the grandmothers lived in the rental property. You could see that the driveway forked in one of the pics that a local poster made. Also in that pic was a U Haul truck at the rental property. I am going to go look for that particular pic. The poster went to a great deal of trouble to take the pics and I want to give him the credit for the pic!!
I think there may be some outbuilding on the property where MJ kept his toys. I bet that was not his first order! BRB
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 06:12 PM
I just finished reading the articles, dark_shadows. You really might have something there! I have also come in contact with some RSO's when I was working. I do know that there are a couple of RSO's in my area that are of that particular religion. We knew the names, and I just went back to the RSO site and found them when I did the 'city' search. One of them is and old man, and the other is not as old - middle aged.
I, too, would like to know if MJ's Dad was of that religion.
Thanks!
My dearest LaLaw,:blowkiss:
I want to thank-you so much for taking the time to read the articles.
I so very much appreciate your post.
Brooke's pastor was Baptist, but he appeared very detached. In my opinion from observation. I wonder if the man was a pastor that Cassandra just happen to choose. I would like to know the religion of MJ and his family also LaLaw, maybe we can find that info out soon. Thank-you for the info that you provided about RSO's and their religion.
So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 06:23 PM
My dearest LaLaw,:blowkiss:
I want to thank-you so much for taking the time to read the articles.
I so very much appreciate your post.
Brooke's pastor was Baptist, but he appeared very detached. In my opinion from observation. I wonder if the man was a pastor that Cassandra just happen to choose. I would like to know the religion of MJ and his family also LaLaw, maybe we can find that info out soon. Thank-you for the info that you provided about RSO's and their religion.
So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
You are so welcome, dark_shadows!
I have actually been to a couple of funerals that the paster did not seem to know the deceased. I think it was because they (the family) were not members of any church. It always struck a cord in me that it was a shame that the pastor was actually reading the comments! That is sad.
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 06:26 PM
Elly Mae, go to the Photo Section of the board if you will and click on the post IMBY did. You can see a slide show where the rental property is located. The U Haul truck is in the pic.
IMBY did a great job!
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 06:27 PM
My dearest ds,
Right back at you..we have a mutual admiration society between us here.
I so appreciate your posts and your very informative statements about
inmates, laws and justice.
With great respect and love,
DD :blowkiss:
Very dearest DeltaDawn,:blowkiss:
I truly Love your posts my friend.
I wish that we were all sitting together in the same room discussing this.
There are so many pieces to this very large puzzle, but piece by piece, we all work together with compassion. Also to preserve the dignity of the deceased victim Brooke.
So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Elley Mae
07-12-2008, 06:27 PM
LaLaw2000 thank you for that information.
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 06:29 PM
LaLaw2000 thank you for that information.
:)... no problem!
christine2448
07-12-2008, 06:39 PM
Very dearest DeltaDawn,:blowkiss:
I truly Love your posts my friend.
I wish that we were all sitting together in the same room discussing this.
There are so many pieces to this very large puzzle, but piece by piece, we all work together with compassion. Also to preserve the dignity of the deceased victim Brooke.
So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67270
Elley Mae
07-12-2008, 06:40 PM
Something else that has been bothering me, does it make sense that MJ wanted to be on the store video with Brooke and them going there separate ways and then going to the duncan donuts to be videoed with out her and picked her up on the way back. Trying to cover his azz.
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 06:43 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67270
I was meaning face to face together in person.
Busylady
07-12-2008, 06:43 PM
The billing address and delivery address was his home that the family resides in not the rental property. 1820 E Bethel is the home, 1850 E Bethel is the rental property.
Has anyone checked to see if the rental property,the house where the machine was delivered is/was occupied, and could this have been were the assault took place. Were the police ever there.
Elley Mae
07-12-2008, 06:48 PM
Sorry busylady I thought I saw a post a couple days ago that stated different order and delivery.
luthersmama
07-12-2008, 07:04 PM
Thanks ds for that info. Where will all this end, and when. Do people not understand that children are children and adults are adults..and that sex between the two is one of the oldest taboos..esspecialy within the family? WTH is going on in this country that sexual abuse and incest are now considered part of religion, freedom of choice or any other amendment they want to include? Does no one understand that what our fore fathers meant and what we read into the Constitution today are two very different things. If we need amendments that cover child abuse and sexual abuse..they are not part of freedom or religion..then lets change the Constitution so theses mentally unstable people cannot hide behind it. What kind of BS is that!!!
I believe that sexual exploitation is actually LESS common, on a per capita basis, than in prior generations. Loretta Lynn was married at 14 for pity's sake! Nobody TALKED about it. A young girl who turned up pregnant or with an STD was shipped off and not mentioned again. No f'ing way a young boy would EVER talk about the "fiddling about." There was no education, nobody to report to, no credibility for child witnesses. Just shame and silence and more of the same from generation to generation.
SeriouslySearching
07-12-2008, 07:19 PM
The billing address and delivery address was his home that the family resides in not the rental property. 1820 E Bethel is the home, 1850 E Bethel is the rental property.It still makes me wonder who signed for the package that day.
The rental property was supposedly next door to the newer house MJ and Denise lived in. I could be very wrong, but seems to me that one of the grandmothers lived in the rental property. You could see that the driveway forked in one of the pics that a local poster made. Also in that pic was a U Haul truck at the rental property. I am going to go look for that particular pic. The poster went to a great deal of trouble to take the pics and I want to give him the credit for the pic!!
I think there may be some outbuilding on the property where MJ kept his toys. I bet that was not his first order! BRB
I'm not positive who lived (or lives) in the rental property-- it is the former home of MJ and DJ before their house was built. The "rental" is the one on the right hand side of the forked driveway.
The "grandmother" you may be thinking of might be Lilla Woodard who's address is listed in public records as 1816 which is the residence of MJ's grandfather.
btw, there was some talk about the age of the google satellite photos, because MJ's house does not appear.. just the prepared site shows.
I'm fairly certain that the google images are from around 2001 based on the pics of my house.
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 07:32 PM
I'm not positive who lived (or lives) in the rental property-- it is the former home of MJ and DJ before their house was built. The "rental" is the one on the right hand side of the forked driveway.
The "grandmother" you may be thinking of might be Lilla Woodard who's address is listed in public records as 1816 which is the residence of MJ's grandfather.
btw, there was some talk about the age of the google satellite photos, because MJ's house does not appear.. just the prepared site shows.
I'm fairly certain that the google images are from around 2001 based on the pics of my house.
IMBY, you did a great job on taking the pics and presentation of the slide show! Thank you!
I was thinking there was a video of one of the grandmothers speaking, and then turning and walking up the driveway. Did Lilla Woodard ever speak? I think it was also said that Cassandra, Brooke, Savannah, and her half brother lived with a grandmother. I simply cannot keep everyone straight!
IMBY, do you know how far off the road Brooke's body was found? I know it was a fresh, shallow grave. If any vehicle had driven off road, the tracks in the grass would have been visible to LE wouldn't they?
I still cannot begin to think what was found in the house that led LE to Brooke's body.
Anyway - GREAT JOB - IMBY!
LaLaw2000
07-12-2008, 07:42 PM
It still makes me wonder who signed for the package that day.
I would love to know also, SS.
I want to know what time the package came and who all saw it. If C. was there at the time, she would be very curious as to what was in the package as children all are.
I want to know if Denise knew a package came that day.
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 08:08 PM
I was thinking there was a video of one of the grandmothers speaking, and then turning and walking up the driveway. Did Lilla Woodard ever speak? I think it was also said that Cassandra, Brooke, Savannah, and her half brother lived with a grandmother. I simply cannot keep everyone straight!
RANDOLPH — Lucinda Milne took a break Tuesday afternoon; she’d been making dozens of yellow and purple ribbons for tonight’s vigil.
Her granddaughter, Brooke Bennett, 12, has been missing for a full week.
“There was a time for tears,” Milne said. “And then I was angry for a full day. Now I’m just numb. We want Brooke, and we need to stand by and wait. Every day and every minute that goes by is harder and harder.”
Brooke lived at Milne’s West Braintree home with her mother, Cassandra Gagnon, and her siblings, Savanna Andress, 18, and D.A., 15.
Milne said the family was close and loving.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080702/NEWS01/80701027/1007/NEWS02
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 08:13 PM
I would love to know also, SS.
I want to know what time the package came and who all saw it. If C. was there at the time, she would be very curious as to what was in the package as children all are.
I want to know if Denise knew a package came that day.
It wouldn't have just been a package, it would have been oversized.
Tracking info. is available oneline, IF you know your order number. I think LE has all that info.
Hailiejade77
07-12-2008, 08:17 PM
My dearest LaLaw,:blowkiss:
I want to thank-you so much for taking the time to read the articles.
I so very much appreciate your post.
Brooke's pastor was Baptist, but he appeared very detached. In my opinion from observation. I wonder if the man was a pastor that Cassandra just happen to choose. I would like to know the religion of MJ and his family also LaLaw, maybe we can find that info out soon. Thank-you for the info that you provided about RSO's and their religion.
So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
From watching the funeral I was under the impression that the pastor was Jim's pastor. He said that he Baptized little C (Brooke's younger half brother Jim and Janet's son)
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 08:39 PM
I just posted this on the Amber Alert thread, this shows what the lack of communication was here in Vermont.
We do not have billboards here.
Video at link.
http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8662622
Burlington, Vermont - July 11, 2008
It's construction season in Vermont-- and if you didn't know it-- all you'd have to do is read the electronic billboards... billboards that should have been displaying an Amber Alert when Brooke Bennett went missing two weeks ago.
"They just didn't contact us. If we'd been contacted, we would have put our system in place," said John Zicconi of the Vt. Agency of Transportation.
Vt. State police say they forgot to contact the Agency of Transportation.
More at link.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
LI_Mom
07-12-2008, 08:55 PM
My very dearest Tom'sGirl,:blowkiss:
I thank-you so much.
Well this has to do with current or past religion.
I can tell you that there have been many many inmates that I have encountered that were from Island Pond and he surrounding areas.
Both men and women that have been incarcerated for sexual abuse.
I will say that when the story first came out about Breckenridge, there was a poster who saw the word "President" and assumed that the Breckenridge Program was involving the President of the United States. No where in the emails does is say "The President of the United States". It simply says "the President". President of an organization.
http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8580434
In the police affidavit, it says the victim was told the president of the United States had selected her for the sex program. The president assigns a trainer, and her trainer would be Michael Jacques. And then she was abused-- almost tortured-- on a weekly basis in many different ways for the next five years. The victim testified she had met three men as part of the "Breckenridge" ring who had told her what types of sexual activity she needed to work on to graduate.
IMBY, you did a great job on taking the pics and presentation of the slide show! Thank you!
I was thinking there was a video of one of the grandmothers speaking, and then turning and walking up the driveway. Did Lilla Woodard ever speak? I think it was also said that Cassandra, Brooke, Savannah, and her half brother lived with a grandmother. I simply cannot keep everyone straight!
I believe that Lilla Woodard is DJ's grandmother (According to Brooke's obituary, Brooke's maternal great-grandmother). Brooke's maternal grandmother is listed as Lucinda Milne.
IMBY, do you know how far off the road Brooke's body was found? I know it was a fresh, shallow grave. If any vehicle had driven off road, the tracks in the grass would have been visible to LE wouldn't they?
I still cannot begin to think what was found in the house that led LE to Brooke's body.
Anyway - GREAT JOB - IMBY!
There are very few signs of vehicle tracks going off road anywhere along Crocker Road. There are a few... but nothing that looks like there was heavy LE traffic. At least not visible from the road. I just took a drive and it was getting dark. I'll try to get some more pics.
Edit: Sorry Tom'sGirl, didn't see your posts.
LI_Mom
07-12-2008, 09:07 PM
I think that we can rest assured that the sex machine did have something to do with Brooke's torture and/or death or it would not have been in the affadavit from the FEDS. They would not have included anything that was not 100% part of this case. There are many missing emails and other info..but to include this machine in a Federal affadavit means it was used in this crime..rather they spell it out or not. If it hadn't been they would not have gone to the trouble to include it and find out when it was ordered, by whom it was ordered, when it was delivered and where it was delivered. They have alot more info to put together..they wouldn't have even wasted their time or the judges with something that was not part of this case.
Cassandra does not have any other minor children that we know of. I seriously doubt that Denise has AR with her. As far as C goes..she may be with Denise, but under constant protection and supervision by LE.
Cassandra has a 15 year old son.
Cassandra's ex-husband RG had NO RECORD prior to Brooke's death.
We do NOT know what the circumstances regarding Brooke's sleepover were....
IF she sent her daughter there thinking her sister would be home during that night AND that both Denise AND MJ would be at work the following morning... I don't feel Cassandra is the monster people are making her out to be.
If only Cassandra knew that AR was the one she had to keep Brooke away from.
olepi
07-12-2008, 09:10 PM
http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8580434
In the police affidavit, it says the victim was told the president of the United States had selected her for the sex program. The president assigns a trainer, and her trainer would be Michael Jacques. And then she was abused-- almost tortured-- on a weekly basis in many different ways for the next five years. The victim testified she had met three men as part of the "Breckenridge" ring who had told her what types of sexual activity she needed to work on to graduate.
Can anybody else see where it refers to the President of the United States? I dont'. I see the word 'president', but assumed it meant the top guy at Breckenridge.
LI_Mom
07-12-2008, 09:11 PM
Something else that has been bothering me, does it make sense that MJ wanted to be on the store video with Brooke and them going there separate ways and then going to the duncan donuts to be videoed with out her and picked her up on the way back. Trying to cover his azz.
Wasn't the DD story a lie?
In any event, it makes sense that he would want to be noticed leaving town WITHOUT Brooke.... that confirms their story that someone picked her up.
LI_Mom
07-12-2008, 09:15 PM
Can anybody else see where it refers to the President of the United States? I dont'. I see the word 'president', but assumed it meant the top guy at Breckenridge.
Where is that particular affidavit?
All I know is that this is how the story was reported in the news from the very beginning.... there was mention of the Pres. of the USA.
So if inmates are referring to it, it's not necessarily because they have some type of insight/knowledge BUT because they probably read the same thing we all did.
olepi
07-12-2008, 09:20 PM
There was a link to the affidavit in the article you posted. I think it's a case where the media is 'enhancing' the story, or sloppy reporting.
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 09:23 PM
Can anybody else see where it refers to the President of the United States? I dont'. I see the word 'president', but assumed it meant the top guy at Breckenridge.
Dearest Olepi,:)
Thank-you for your post.
The poster (li mom) posted what the news story said and bolded it,
not the actual affidavit of course.
You are right, it does not say "the President of the United States".
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
christine2448
07-12-2008, 09:25 PM
There was a link to the affidavit in the article you posted. I think it's a case where the media is 'enhancing' the story, or sloppy reporting.
Where is that particular affidavit?
All I know is that this is how the story was reported in the news from the very beginning.... there was mention of the Pres. of the USA.
So if inmates are referring to it, it's not necessarily because they have some type of insight/knowledge BUT because they probably read the same thing we all did.
We have a thread for affidavits here. (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66875)
LI_Mom
07-12-2008, 09:30 PM
Dearest Olepi,:)
Thank-you for your post.
The poster (li mom) posted what the news story said and bolded it,
not the actual affidavit of course.
You are right, it does not say "the President of the United States".
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Yep, either it's the usual slopping reporting OR is it possible Breckenridge is also mentioned in another affidavit?
Either way... it's easy to see why some people are mentioning the "Pres. of the USA" in connection with Breckenridge. The very idea of it is SO absurd, it really sticks in your mind.
olepi
07-12-2008, 09:30 PM
Dearest Olepi,:)
Thank-you for your post.
The poster (li mom) posted what the news story said and bolded it,
not the actual affidavit of course.
You are right, it does not say "the President of the United States".
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Thank you d_s. I was only pointing out the difference between the article written by the media and the affidavit linked within said article. I had missed your earlier post where you already mentioned it.
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 09:33 PM
Thank you d_s. I was only pointing out the difference between the article written by the media and the affidavit linked within said article. I had missed your earlier post where you already mentioned it.
Dearest Olepi,:blowkiss:
Thanks again for your post.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 09:34 PM
Where is that particular affidavit?
All I know is that this is how the story was reported in the news from the very beginning.... there was mention of the Pres. of the USA.
So if inmates are referring to it, it's not necessarily because they have some type of insight/knowledge BUT because they probably read the same thing we all did.
What do you mean that inmates are refering to it??
christine2448
07-12-2008, 09:37 PM
RANDOLPH — Lucinda Milne took a break Tuesday afternoon; she’d been making dozens of yellow and purple ribbons for tonight’s vigil.
Her granddaughter, Brooke Bennett, 12, has been missing for a full week.
“There was a time for tears,” Milne said. “And then I was angry for a full day. Now I’m just numb. We want Brooke, and we need to stand by and wait. Every day and every minute that goes by is harder and harder.”
Brooke lived at Milne’s West Braintree home with her mother, Cassandra Gagnon, and her siblings, Savanna Andress, 18, and D.A., 15.
Milne said the family was close and loving.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080702/NEWS01/80701027/1007/NEWS02
Thanks TG... ;)
LI_Mom
07-12-2008, 09:42 PM
What do you mean that inmates are refering to it??
Ooops! I must be going crazy... I went back (pg. 2) & reread your original post:
"I will say that when the story first came out about Breckenridge, there was a poster who saw the word "President" and assumed that the Breckenridge Program was involving the President of the United States. No where in the emails does is say "The President of the United States". It simply says "the President". President of an organization."
Inmate... poster..... it's close enough, isn't it? :crazy:
dark_shadows
07-12-2008, 09:52 PM
Ooops! I must be going crazy... I went back (pg. 2) & reread your original post:
"I will say that when the story first came out about Breckenridge, there was a poster who saw the word "President" and assumed that the Breckenridge Program was involving the President of the United States. No where in the emails does is say "The President of the United States". It simply says "the President". President of an organization."
Inmate... poster..... it's close enough, isn't it? :crazy:
I am not here to have my posts picked apart and misconstrued.
Put me on ignore.
Posters here should not be refered to as inmates either.
Last I am going to say about that.
LI_Mom
07-12-2008, 10:09 PM
I am not here to have my posts picked apart and misconstrued.
Put me on ignore.
Posters here should not be refered to as inmates either.
Last I am going to say about that.
With all due respect, I wasn't picking apart your words....
You mentioned some confusion concerning "president" vs. "president of the USA" & I was pointing out why some people DID in fact believe AR mentioned the POTUS. That's exactly what the news reported to us.
And the last comment was merely poking fun for such an absurd mixup. A joke.... thus the smilie.
Tom'sGirl
07-12-2008, 10:25 PM
Where is that particular affidavit?
All I know is that this is how the story was reported in the news from the very beginning.... there was mention of the Pres. of the USA.
So if inmates are referring to it, it's not necessarily because they have some type of insight/knowledge BUT because they probably read the same thing we all did.
http://i34.tinypic.com/28rjfqx.jpg
Hailiejade77
07-12-2008, 10:57 PM
I am off to bed everyone. Just wanted to say one more time. Happy 13th Birthday Brooke Bennett. You will get justice that you deserve and the sick and evil people that did this to you will pay!
evelyn24
07-13-2008, 01:57 AM
http://i34.tinypic.com/28rjfqx.jpg
I definitely read that to mean the president of the breckenridge organization, not the president of the united states.
The news media and their sloppy reporting caused some posters so think it was the president of the united states.
RR0004
07-13-2008, 03:49 AM
I just posted this on the Amber Alert thread, this shows what the lack of communication was here in Vermont.
We do not have billboards here.
Video at link.
http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8662622
Burlington, Vermont - July 11, 2008
It's construction season in Vermont-- and if you didn't know it-- all you'd have to do is read the electronic billboards... billboards that should have been displaying an Amber Alert when Brooke Bennett went missing two weeks ago.
"They just didn't contact us. If we'd been contacted, we would have put our system in place," said John Zicconi of the Vt. Agency of Transportation.
Vt. State police say they forgot to contact the Agency of Transportation.
More at link.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
OMG! Just when you think you've heard it all!!
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 08:00 AM
This is on the front page of my newspaper today.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080713/NEWS01/80712014&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL
http://cmsimg.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?
http://cmsimg.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?The footprints have faded; the K-9s are back in their kennels. Yet 10 days after police found the body of slain 12-year-old Brooke Bennett near Randolph Center, a forensics team at the Burlington Police Department still coaxes evidence from the chief suspects’ digital trail.
Sgt. Kris Carlson, who commands the Vermont Internet Crimes Against Children task force, said Friday that sifting through hard drives, peripherals and networks will take three specialists at least another three weeks.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/imanillusion/Gagnon.jpg
Undated family photo of Gagnon sitting at a computor. Photo courtesy of The Burlington Free Press used with permission.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
texas48
07-13-2008, 08:12 AM
Great, :banghead: I just lost a longgg post. lol
Again, AR has been a victim, of sexual abuse since the age of 8.
It is against the TOS to bash her and I am not afraid to hit the alert button. :blush:
How dare people HERE question if Brooke was sexually active.
Wt is wrong with people? She was only12 years old.
Do gossip mongers have a son or daughter 12 years old?? Think about it.:mad:
I find this infuriating.
My comments are regarding post made yesterday.I am new here and I have to ask....what is an "alert button"? Why would you be afraid to hit it? What happends when you do hit it?
observe the lower, far left corner of the family-Gagnon photo: a teddy bear....
:puke:
I am new here and I have to ask....what is an "alert button"? Why would you be afraid to hit it? What happends when you do hit it?
Texas48,
I imagine that the "alert button" is the red, triangulated exclaimation point in the upper right corner of a post. "Hitting" the mark will alert a moderator to a questionable posting.
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 08:22 AM
observe the lower, far left corner of the family-Gagnon photo: a teddy bear....
:puke:
Dearest ZOOL,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for your post. That was the first thing that stood out when I saw the photo on the front page of the paper today. I felt sick also.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Talisman
07-13-2008, 08:22 AM
dark_shadows, :blowkiss:
Thank you for all of your hard work here!!
I was one of those posters that was confused about the 'President' comment. Thank you for clearing that up.
Lots of love to you!!:blowkiss:
marly56
07-13-2008, 08:23 AM
Texas48,
I imagine that the "alert button" is the red, triangulated exclaimation point in the upper right corner of a post. "Hitting" the mark will alert a moderator to a questionable posting.
thanx ZOOL
You are welcome, Marly56!
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 08:35 AM
dark_shadows, :blowkiss:
Thank you for all of your hard work here!!
I was one of those posters that was confused about the 'President' comment. Thank you for clearing that up.
Lots of love to you!!:blowkiss:
My sweet Talisman,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for your very thoughtful words my friend.
You always brighten my day. Always.
So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows
Dearest ZOOL,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for your post. That was the first thing that stood out when I saw the photo on the front page of the paper today. I felt sick also.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Good morning, ds --
The little white object on the left of the terminal screen looks like a ceramic Snow White. (Probably just my imagination,...running away with myself....)
:singing:
forgive me,
and apologies to the Temptations,
pun intended
VTNance
07-13-2008, 08:53 AM
Great, :banghead: I just lost a longgg post. lol
Again, AR has been a victim, of sexual abuse since the age of 8.
It is against the TOS to bash her and I am not afraid to hit the alert button. :blush:
How dare people HERE question if Brooke was sexually active.
Wt is wrong with people? She was only12 years old.
Do gossip mongers have a son or daughter 12 years old?? Think about it.:mad:
I find this infuriating.
My comments are regarding post made yesterday.
I need to say something. I found this post incredibly mean. I am not a gossip monger and yes I do have children. And I know from them, and from being involved with their school, that there are sad and terrible things that go on with a lot of children, in Brook's age group and all age groups. It is heartbreaking. I asked some questions about some strange things in the evidence and what they might mean. That is was "sleuths" do. Brooke for much of her life was around two men who are now up on federal charges for child pornography. It isn't a gigantic stretch of the imagination to wonder if this may have affected her life previous to the murder. I didn't ask that question to be salacious but because I want to find out the truth about the criminals that took Brooke's life.
If we are not allowed to question the evidence and discuss what it may mean, this board is pointless. For you to suggest that I brought up these questions just to be mean or gossipy is just disgusting.
I'm with Dark Shadows, put me on "ignore." This will be my last post.
I HOPE (an angry rant)
I hope that MJ is fried.
I hope if MJ somehow ends up with only prison time that the other inmate humiliate and degrade him just like I suspect he did Brooke.
I hope Cassandra and Denise end up penniless living with their "he's just sick" mother.
I hope Savannah and Jim file a wrongful death claim and get all properties of MJ plus however much the jury awards them from the state of Vermont- I hope Savannah heals from this trauma and goes on to become a self sufficient woman possibly even a future law maker herself
I hope that little "C" is removed from this situation although who would take care of her both sides of her family appear dysfunctional. I hope a trust fund is set up for her future.
I hope the laws in Vermont change to start protecting the child instead of the perverts.
END OF RANT
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 09:11 AM
Good morning, ds --
The little white object on the left of the terminal screen looks like a ceramic Snow White. (Probably just my imagination,...running away with myself....)
:singing:
forgive me,
and apologies to the Temptations,
pun intended
My dearest ZOOL,:blowkiss:
It is very nice to see you. Good morning to you too.
I did not see that one. Good eyes ZOOL. I do not think that it is your imagination because I just looked at it.
So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows
<SNIP>
...If we are not allowed to question the evidence and discuss what it may mean, this board is pointless. For you to suggest that I brought up these questions just to be mean or gossipy is just disgusting.... , put me on "ignore." This will be my last post.
VTNance,
Hold on a second. It's easier to step back and take a breath. I imagine that most of the anger should be directed at me since I began the topic with a posting much earlier than yours. I know you are mad. You deserve to be. But try not to take everyone's anger upon your shoulders.
It was my election to post an inquiring comment upon a very sensitive subject at the wrong time.
zool
Talisman
07-13-2008, 09:23 AM
I need to say something. I found this post incredibly mean. I am not a gossip monger and yes I do have children. And I know from them, and from being involved with their school, that there are sad and terrible things that go on with a lot of children, in Brook's age group and all age groups. It is heartbreaking. I asked some questions about some strange things in the evidence and what they might mean. That is was "sleuths" do. Brooke for much of her life was around two men who are now up on federal charges for child pornography. It isn't a gigantic stretch of the imagination to wonder if this may have affected her life previous to the murder. I didn't ask that question to be salacious but because I want to find out the truth about the criminals that took Brooke's life.
If we are not allowed to question the evidence and discuss what it may mean, this board is pointless. For you to suggest that I brought up these questions just to be mean or gossipy is just disgusting.
I'm with Dark Shadows, put me on "ignore." This will be my last post.
This case is just so gut wrenching and heart breaking that emotions are very raw. It disturbed me to the point of having to walk away from it for awhile. When I did decide to come back to read threads about Brooke's murder there seemed to be many posts that were leaning towards blaming the victims. Usually that doesn't happen here at Websleuths and it sickened me!!!
I'm not pointing any fingers at you, You just happened to post about it now.
Personally, I am sick of the victims being targeted. The victims have suffered horribly ending with the murder of a beautiful young 12 year old. Not sure why things seem so different here at Websleuths the past week or so, but I hope it stops!!
texas48
07-13-2008, 09:27 AM
I need to say something. I found this post incredibly mean. I am not a gossip monger and yes I do have children. And I know from them, and from being involved with their school, that there are sad and terrible things that go on with a lot of children, in Brook's age group and all age groups. It is heartbreaking. I asked some questions about some strange things in the evidence and what they might mean. That is was "sleuths" do. Brooke for much of her life was around two men who are now up on federal charges for child pornography. It isn't a gigantic stretch of the imagination to wonder if this may have affected her life previous to the murder. I didn't ask that question to be salacious but because I want to find out the truth about the criminals that took Brooke's life.
If we are not allowed to question the evidence and discuss what it may mean, this board is pointless. For you to suggest that I brought up these questions just to be mean or gossipy is just disgusting.
I'm with Dark Shadows, put me on "ignore." This will be my last post.VTNance..I want to say THANK YOU for your post. I am new here and I have never thought anything I read was mean or gossipy..just very informative and believe that this is what this is all about. We are all here and should be able to post as we want or ask questions as along as we abide by the rules. The "I'm not afraid to hit the alert button" had me somewhat stunned. I am a mother of 3 and grandmother of 7. I did not feel anyone was bashing Brooke by questioning anything. Thnks again VTNance and please continue to post.
texas48
07-13-2008, 09:37 AM
VTNance,
Hold on a second. It's easier to step back and take a breath. I imagine that most of the anger should be directed at me since I began the topic with a posting much earlier than yours. I know you are mad. You deserve to be. But try not to take everyone's anger upon your shoulders.
It was my election to post an inquiring comment upon a very sensitive subject at the wrong time.
zoolThank :woohoo:you ZOOL for the info the the ALERT BUTTON and also for all your very informative post. Anger should not be directed toward anyone on this board. We all try and help each other. I think the remark about gossipers was uncalled and downight rude. Quess I better watch out or the Alert Button could be hit at anytime!!!! Only kidding..Thanks again ZOOL for all your great questions and comments and especially your HELP!
Thanks, Texas48 --
I'm going to go away for awhile now, and look into the subject matter of the hacking that has been taking place over the course of the past week.
I'll be back. Hopefully VTNance, will be too.
Reading through the subthreads on AFFIDAVITS and PHOTOS and FAMILY TREES and BRECKENRIDGE is interesting reading too.
becca
07-13-2008, 10:22 AM
This case is just so gut wrenching and heart breaking that emotions are very raw. It disturbed me to the point of having to walk away from it for awhile. When I did decide to come back to read threads about Brooke's murder there seemed to be many posts that were leaning towards blaming the victims. Usually that doesn't happen here at Websleuths and it sickened me!!!
I'm not pointing any fingers at you, You just happened to post about it now.
Personally, I am sick of the victims being targeted. The victims have suffered horribly ending with the murder of a beautiful young 12 year old. Not sure why things seem so different here at Websleuths the past week or so, but I hope it stops!!
Which was the point of my little rant on the last thread. We never re victimize the victims. The family is part of that too. They are victims of a system and a parent that didn't think. These mothers do not get a free pass, but the children didn't have a choice in this.
I swore I wouldn't post on this case again, but its a bit hard not to when the subject is victims.
Philamena was trying to make a point about that. We do not make the victims , victims again. To discuss certain things does that. For long time posters here it makes them angry, they are all about the victims getting justice not wondering if a 12 yr old was sexually active. The mere thought of that put a lot of us in a tail spin.
The subject has no bearing on the case,any more than saying a girl got raped because she wore a short skirt. Or better yet a rape victims sexual history.... its not brought up. Has nothing to do with the crime at hand.
sorry for another rant, but it makes my blood boil... victims are victims... we need to keep that in mind.
Cornflower
07-13-2008, 10:38 AM
These mothers do not get a free pass, but the children didn't have a choice in this.
When I joined this community I was very pleased to notice that people treat eachother nicely and write about this case very professionally. I understand that there are lots of things that are very hard to talk about. However I´ve been a bit surprised about the turn that the conversations have taken. I don´t see a point in identifying people from the funeralphotos, if someone could explaine why that is relevant to the case I´d be happy to know.
My strong oppinion is that ALL the children here are victims. All of them.
JMO.
twinkiesmom
07-13-2008, 10:44 AM
How dare people HERE question if Brooke was sexually active.
Wt is wrong with people? She was only12 years old.
Incest is a crime in which silence leads to death and more victims. Light needs to be shined in dark corners in this case. Brooke can not be hurt by our questions.
If Brooke was sexually active at 12...it would make prior abuse almost a certainty given the family structure (close contact with two pedophiles).
adnoid
07-13-2008, 10:49 AM
...sifting through hard drives, peripherals and networks will take three specialists at least another three weeks...
There's a job I sure know how to do but could never sign up for. I don't think I could contain my desire to pull out my .357 and dispatch the disgusting child porn scumbags personally. Anyone who has any desire to look at that stuff has no reason to live.
My BIL was a CO at a state prison here. He told me they kept the child molesters separated because the other prisoners would kill them. I don't see the problem - I look at it as "peer review".
The picture of that sick monster sitting at the computer - and you know what he was doing there - fills me with a seething rage.
becca,
You may find "The Problem Of Evil: Comprehending the Incomprehensible" (http://www.vnews.com/07092008/4941888.htm), Wednesday's (7/9) editorial in the Vermont Valley News daily a worthwhile read.
zool
becca
07-13-2008, 11:24 AM
becca,
You may find "The Problem Of Evil: Comprehending the Incomprehensible" (http://www.vnews.com/07092008/4941888.htm), Wednesday's (7/9) editorial in the Vermont Valley News daily a worthwhile read.
zool
Thank you for the link, it was interesting. I still think that without all the facts we are so easily led down the rumor path. We must wait until we know the facts before we can discuss if this then that... otherwise we are just blowing in the wind. and using bandwidth for idle gossip.
To fully understand evil one must be on a first name basis with it.
Tom'sGirl
07-13-2008, 11:49 AM
This is on the front page of my newspaper today.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080713/NEWS01/80712014&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL
http://cmsimg.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
Dearest d_s, I was so glad you posted the photo, I have it with the photo caption but with the time difference didn't get it posted.
I know some guys may have a few things around one's desk if your kids make them, but SnowMen, Teddy, and an Angel or whatever makes me wonder what they represent?
Native New Yorker
07-13-2008, 11:51 AM
As far as I am concerned, the only pix that we should be interested are those of the monsters...so that we can put a face to evil. The victims ( of which there are many), well, I do not see the point in trying to ID their pix.
As to the issue of sexual abuse prior to the murder, VT Nance, I hope you come back.
Some of you have things ( in my opinion) bassackwards!
When a child is sexually active ( thinking of AR here) dollars to donuts, there has been molestation! The molestation almost always causes sexual acting out, to coin a clinical phrase.
I think that any interest expressed here as far as the victim's sexual activity was strictly about motive ( being part of their sick system, perhaps, and then wanting out) or being molested and threatening to tell.
It is a totally FALSE analogy to liken this to accusing a rape victim of wearing a short skirt!
No child wants to be molested, but once they are, it impacts their lives in EVERY way, most apparently in sexual ways.
The only gossipy thing I have seen on these boards has been the attempts to ID funeral pix...and even that I liken to rubbernecking at a car crash...just a side of human nature that is not so noble, but certainly not cruel!
You cannot take sexual activity out of the equation with these families. Like it or not, they were all living in a cesspool with two perverts. Bound to be repercussions, which damaged probably all the children in those families, one fatally.
Native New Yorker
07-13-2008, 11:54 AM
Dark shadows, thank you for posting that pic of RG. For putting a face to evil.
I agree with Adnoid...we all know what that sicko was doing online.....very disturbing!
CarpeDiem
07-13-2008, 12:01 PM
I know some guys may have a few things around one's desk if your kids make them, but SnowMen, Teddy, and an Angel or whatever makes me wonder what they represent?
Christmas. I think the pic was taken at Christmas time.
I honestly don't believe that anyone's intent here is to "re-victimize" the victims. Everyone here has shown (rightfully) nothing but compassion and sympathy for them.
In a previous post I talked about the rampant speculation (which I dislike) aspect of this forum, and about hypothesizing.
People are trying to understand WHY Brooke was "targeted" and the events that led to her kidnapping and death.
We certainly don't have all of the facts in this case.
Per the affidavit, we know that AR said that there were three other girls "enrolled" in Breckenridge.
She also said "the first who 'does it' lives and the second gets her throat cut".
Of course you may disagree, but how does questioning anyone's potential previous involvement in Breckenridge not have a bearing on the case?
By considering all of the possibilities, perhaps it would increase understanding (and yes, intellectual growth). Perceptions are tricky... I did not see ANYONE "blaming the victims" in any way, shape, manner or form.
But on the other hand, the idea of considering some questions/hypotheses "taboo" with regard to discovering facts that may possibly speak DIRECTLY to motive and/or opportunity seems a little misguided if not counterproductive. IMHO.
If you think that Brooke's "history" (if any) is not being looked into by LE, I think you are mistaken.
As I said in another post, however, whether or not a public forum is the place to discuss these things is debatable... I'm fairly certain that there are people lurking/reading this forum that know things pertaining to this case that have not yet been revealed, and may be equally upset by some of the misinformation presented here.
I, for one, appreciate any discussion---
My 2¢
Edit:
While I was typing, twinkiesmom put it much more succinctly:
Incest is a crime in which silence leads to death and more victims. Light needs to be shined in dark corners in this case. Brooke can not be hurt by our questions.
If Brooke was sexually active at 12...it would make prior abuse almost a certainty given the family structure (close contact with two pedophiles).
texas48
07-13-2008, 12:22 PM
As far as I am concerned, the only pix that we should be interested are those of the monsters...so that we can put a face to evil. The victims ( of which there are many), well, I do not see the point in trying to ID their pix.
As to the issue of sexual abuse prior to the murder, VT Nance, I hope you come back.
Some of you have things ( in my opinion) bassackwards!
When a child is sexually active ( thinking of AR here) dollars to donuts, there has been molestation! The molestation almost always causes sexual acting out, to coin a clinical phrase.
I think that any interest expressed here as far as the victim's sexual activity was strictly about motive ( being part of their sick system, perhaps, and then wanting out) or being molested and threatening to tell.
It is a totally FALSE analogy to liken this to accusing a rape victim of wearing a short skirt!
No child wants to be molested, but once they are, it impacts their lives in EVERY way, most apparently in sexual ways.
The only gossipy thing I have seen on these boards has been the attempts to ID funeral pix...and even that I liken to rubbernecking at a car crash...just a side of human nature that is not so noble, but certainly not cruel!
You cannot take sexual activity out of the equation with these families. Like it or not, they werrkere all living in a cesspool with two perverts. Bound to be repercussions, which damaged probably all the children in those families, one fatally.Thanks Native New Yorker. You said this well. Bassackwards is a good ole Texas word and you used it perfectly. We need all the posters, so, come on back. I always need your words of wisdom and your help, especially with that darn ole alert button....
Taximom
07-13-2008, 12:24 PM
observe the lower, far left corner of the family-Gagnon photo: a teddy bear....
:puke:
Did he live by himself when this photo was taken?
Native New Yorker
07-13-2008, 12:28 PM
Thanks, Texas....I have not left the board...and do not plan to...
I wonder where I done picked up a Texas expression? I learned it from my father, who was a Brooklyn boy....he must have learned it in the Army....
Imby, and twinkiesmom, I totally agree with what you both said....
LI_Mom
07-13-2008, 12:28 PM
I need to say something. I found this post incredibly mean. I am not a gossip monger and yes I do have children. And I know from them, and from being involved with their school, that there are sad and terrible things that go on with a lot of children, in Brook's age group and all age groups. It is heartbreaking. I asked some questions about some strange things in the evidence and what they might mean. That is was "sleuths" do. Brooke for much of her life was around two men who are now up on federal charges for child pornography. It isn't a gigantic stretch of the imagination to wonder if this may have affected her life previous to the murder. I didn't ask that question to be salacious but because I want to find out the truth about the criminals that took Brooke's life.
If we are not allowed to question the evidence and discuss what it may mean, this board is pointless. For you to suggest that I brought up these questions just to be mean or gossipy is just disgusting.
I think a big problem with discussing this case is that we have some very basic facts but even those are just snippets of a very large picture.
Trying to fill in the blanks leads to all kinds of speculation about all the people who definitely were or might have been involved.
There has been next to NO new info released since the arrests.... coverage of the funeral doesn't give us any new insight into the case.... of course it led to more speculation.
Hailiejade77
07-13-2008, 12:40 PM
I think a big problem with discussing this case is that we have some very basic facts but even those are just snippets of a very large picture.
Trying to fill in the blanks leads to all kinds of speculation about all the people who definitely were or might have been involved.
There has been next to NO new info released since the arrests.... coverage of the funeral doesn't give us any new insight into the case.... of course it led to more speculation.
I think you hit the nail on the head!
I think everyone has been so heartbroken about this case and we just want to see justice and figure out WHY this happened to this precious little girl!
nanandjim
07-13-2008, 12:40 PM
Dearest d_s, I was so glad you posted the photo, I have it with the photo caption but with the time difference didn't get it posted.
I know some guys may have a few things around one's desk if your kids make them, but SnowMen, Teddy, and an Angel or whatever makes me wonder what they represent?
Once again, this is an old photo, IMO. He is wearing the same glasses as in the other two photos. It may have been taken five years ago, but looks can change a lot in five years...Believe me...It has unfortunately happened to me. :o
SuziQ
07-13-2008, 12:42 PM
I'm a bit confused on the apartment thing. Am I to understand that Ray rented an apartment in addition to a room at KG's house? Can someone clear that up for me?
http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080712/NEWS04/807120353/1004/NEWS03
(snip)
That San Antonio landfill may be the dumping site for trash from a local apartment rented by Raymond Gagnon, Bennett's former stepfather who is facing charges in Alabama for possession of child pornography.
The 40-year-old Gagnon allegedly instructed his landlord last month to throw away a safe containing a computer stored at his apartment that police say contained volumes of child pornography, including sexual photos of an underage female witness involved in Bennett's disappearance.
"We are working to locate a hard drive or laptop computer that was disposed of at the instruction of Mr. Gagnon," Vasys said early Friday afternoon. "Based on information we have received, this landfill is the dumping site for trash from his apartment."
DianeB
07-13-2008, 12:43 PM
Thanks v. much for posting this photo, dark_shadows.
The first thing that struck me was the presence of the case full of DVD's and the hookup between the computer and the TV monitor.
I just posted this on the Amber Alert thread, this shows what the lack of communication was here in Vermont.
We do not have billboards here.
Video at link.
http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=8662622
Burlington, Vermont - July 11, 2008
It's construction season in Vermont-- and if you didn't know it-- all you'd have to do is read the electronic billboards... billboards that should have been displaying an Amber Alert when Brooke Bennett went missing two weeks ago.
"They just didn't contact us. If we'd been contacted, we would have put our system in place," said John Zicconi of the Vt. Agency of Transportation.
Vt. State police say they forgot to contact the Agency of Transportation.
More at link.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
Thank you for this link and article DS.
How sad that they didn't do it right, the Amber Alert. But, I don't think, in this case, it would have made any difference. Brooke may have already been dead and no one saw her leave with the accused kidnapper anyway, except AR.
It's better that they realize their flaw now and correct it, because next time, it MAY make a difference.
FWIW, the very first Amber Alert in California, right after it became law, positively saved the lives of TWO young teenagers who'd been kidnapped and abused. He was actually in the process of attempting to kill them when LE swooped in, literally, and saved their lives. It was a road worker, who'd seen the Amber Alert, notified LE that he'd seen them turn down a small country road, in the middle of nowhere.
Thank you for all the hard work you've done on this case, DS. It's sincerely appreciated by many of us, who are watching the case but not necessarily posting now as we're waiting for some 'new facts' to come out.
JMHO
fran
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 12:52 PM
Bassackwards is a good ole Texas word and you used it perfectly.I thought that was an Oklahoma word?! :P
Tom'sGirl
07-13-2008, 12:53 PM
Once again, this is an old photo, IMO. He is wearing the same glasses as in the other two photos. It may have been taken five years ago, but looks can change a lot in five years...Believe me...It has unfortunately happened to me. :o
I agree, the whole 'big glasses thing goin on' looks like his other photos. But, maybe he still wears that type??? The computer set-up also looks outdated.
In the caption below the photo it said undated family Photo.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2iw1zeo.jpg
I'm a bit confused on the apartment thing. Am I to understand that Ray rented an apartment in addition to a room at KG's house? Can someone clear that up for me?
http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080712/NEWS04/807120353/1004/NEWS03
(snip)
That San Antonio landfill may be the dumping site for trash from a local apartment rented by Raymond Gagnon, Bennett's former stepfather who is facing charges in Alabama for possession of child pornography.
."
Oh Goodness! SuziQ.....:crazy:
This shows why so many people here get confused. This isn't reporting, it's 'mis-reporting.'
Whoever wrote this needs to read what's been written before, it's obvious they're very confused.
He rented a 'room' but his landlord of the 'room' claims to have dumped the computer or harddrive at an apartment building trash bin.
JMHO
fran
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 12:56 PM
Thanks v. much for posting this photo, dark_shadows.
The first thing that struck me was the presence of the case full of DVD's and the hookup between the computer and the TV monitor.
My dearest Diane,:blowkiss:
It is clear that it was in the winter months due to the fact that there are snowmen figures in the photo. It does not mean that it was taken at Christmas time, it could have been before or after in the winter months.
Yes the DVD's and the hookup are something that struck. When I posted the photo I made sure to include that it is an undated photo.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
PomMom12
07-13-2008, 12:56 PM
I just read on the Fox News website that the FBI is now looking in a landfill for the ex-stepfather's safe. I hope they find it!
Thanks Native New Yorker. You said this well. Bassackwards is a good ole Texas word and you used it perfectly.
LOL, IMO, most likely that term can be claimed by all 50 states as their 'word.' Heehee,...........my parents were from Massachusetts but I was born and raised in California and I remember this word from waaayyyy back.
:D
fran
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 01:00 PM
Thanks for posting that, Dark~ I am not surprised they don't know how to initiate the Amber Alert system properly in VT since they have not bothered to use it up until now. Too bad the trial run happened to be for Brooke and they obviously failed miserably in using it correctly. I have said before that I am shocked this is the first time it had ever been used in a missing child case there. This needs to change and they need to review their guidelines. I think someone should point out to LE in VT that the guidelines are not to be taken literally and it should be done on a case by case basis.
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 01:01 PM
I agree, the whole 'big glasses thing goin on' looks like his other photos. But, maybe he still wears that type??? The computer set-up also looks outdated.
In the caption below the photo it said undated family Photo.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2iw1zeo.jpg
My very dearest Tom'sGirl,:blowkiss:
Yes, it is an old photo and you are right in saying that the caption says "undated" photo. I am the one who put that caption there to stress that it is an old photo. I put that there so that posters would know that it is old and that there would not have to be any question that is is in fact old and undated.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
SuziQ
07-13-2008, 01:02 PM
Oh Goodness! SuziQ.....:crazy:
This shows why so many people here get confused. This isn't reporting, it's 'mis-reporting.'
Whoever wrote this needs to read what's been written before, it's obvious they're very confused.
He rented a 'room' but his landlord of the 'room' claims to have dumped the computer or harddrive at an apartment building trash bin.
JMHO
fran
Thanks for clarifying. I know when I looked up RG's addy on Google it was a residential area with no apartments. So the fact is that RG took the safe to an apartment building dumpster in a different location?
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 01:10 PM
I agree, the whole 'big glasses thing goin on' looks like his other photos. But, maybe he still wears that type??? The computer set-up also looks outdated.
In the caption below the photo it said undated family Photo.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2iw1zeo.jpgI think this is an old photo of Gagnon probably while he was at Cassandra's. It may not be 4 years old tho...because we do know that Gagnon was still in and out of her life after they split up. The snowmen look like someone probably decorated for the Holidays. The teddy bear looks like a kid's toy and the figurine could be something Cassandra collects. I don't think they have any other meanings.
His hair and facial hair don't seem to look like the sketch drawn in the courtroom and makes me think the photo is much older. Some men wear the same type of glasses for years.
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 01:14 PM
Once again, this is an old photo, IMO. He is wearing the same glasses as in the other two photos. It may have been taken five years ago, but looks can change a lot in five years...Believe me...It has unfortunately happened to me. :o
Dearest Nanandjim,:blowkiss:
Very nice to see you as always.
Yes it is old. That is why I captioned it the way that I did.
I have to wait until monday to hear about posting the booking photo of Gagnon. I have been working on this since I mentioned it, but there are protocols. I will let everyone here know what the outcome is on monday.
I only posted what was in my local newspaper today and I sais that when I posted the photo.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 01:14 PM
I'm a bit confused on the apartment thing. Am I to understand that Ray rented an apartment in addition to a room at KG's house? Can someone clear that up for me?
http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080712/NEWS04/807120353/1004/NEWS03
(snip)
That San Antonio landfill may be the dumping site for trash from a local apartment rented by Raymond Gagnon, Bennett's former stepfather who is facing charges in Alabama for possession of child pornography.
The 40-year-old Gagnon allegedly instructed his landlord last month to throw away a safe containing a computer stored at his apartment that police say contained volumes of child pornography, including sexual photos of an underage female witness involved in Bennett's disappearance.
"We are working to locate a hard drive or laptop computer that was disposed of at the instruction of Mr. Gagnon," Vasys said early Friday afternoon. "Based on information we have received, this landfill is the dumping site for trash from his apartment."I believe it was determined that KG's house is actually a condo/apartment type, IIRC. (In a nice neighborhood, I think!) I would have to go back and find it now. As far as I know, this is where the room was rented and his only place in San Antonio, TX.
Busylady
07-13-2008, 01:35 PM
There is also a listing for KG 1980 Horal St, that was current as of Feb 2008.
Busylady
07-13-2008, 01:38 PM
In one of the articles it stated that Ray was a messy tenant and KG would grab his things that he left laying around the house at Rays door. So it would seem they share a common area?
LI_Mom
07-13-2008, 01:39 PM
I have to wonder why they would wait a MONTH to search the landfill?
Is this disinformation or more bad reporting?
Considering the case concerns CP, you'd think they would have conducted an intensive search immediately & not waited for trash to settle, to decompose or even possibly animals to walk off with potential evidence.
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 01:39 PM
There is also a listing for KG 1980 Horal St, that was current as of Feb 2008.
Dearest Busylady,:blowkiss:
Yes, those are the apartments named West Pond Apartments.
http://www.forrent.com/apartment-community-profile/999910263.php?CMP=OTC-SMX&origref=http%3A//search.yahoo.com/search%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26y%3DSearch%26fr%3Dyfp-t-501%26p%3Dwest+pond+apartments+texas+photos%26Spel lState%3Dn-38876211_q-HHNNdFRI7ytz%252FefIFOw.zAAAAA%2540%2540%26fr2%3Ds p-top&alias=http%3A//www.forrent.com/apartment-community-profile/999910263.php%3FCMP%3DOTC-SMX
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
Busylady
07-13-2008, 01:39 PM
Thank you for doing what you can to get us an updated photo. I know there are rules etc you have to follow, I appreciate everything you are doing.
Dearest Nanandjim,:blowkiss:
Very nice to see you as always.
Yes it is old. That is why I captioned it the way that I did.
I have to wait until monday to hear about posting the booking photo of Gagnon. I have been working on this since I mentioned it, but there are protocols. I will let everyone here know what the outcome is on monday.
I only posted what was in my local newspaper today and I sais that when I posted the photo.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Busylady
07-13-2008, 01:44 PM
I have wondered about that also, and then the statement that they received a tip? Made me wonder if they were told the wrong dumpster at first, and after it came out in the news someone came forward and said they saw some dumping something early one morning at such and such location which lead them to that landfill?
I have to wonder why they would wait a MONTH to search the landfill?
Is this disinformation or more bad reporting?
Considering the case concerns CP, you'd think they would have conducted an intensive search immediately & not waited for trash to settle, to decompose or even possibly animals to walk off with potential evidence.
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 01:45 PM
Thank you for doing what you can to get us an updated photo. I know there are rules etc you have to follow, I appreciate everything you are doing.
My very dearest Busylady,:blowkiss:
Thank-you so much.
You go above and beyond here and we all appreciate you so very much. You always amaze me my friend.
So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows
Thanks for clarifying. I know when I looked up RG's addy on Google it was a residential area with no apartments. So the fact is that RG took the safe to an apartment building dumpster in a different location?
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/RH/20080705/NEWS04/807050380/1004/SPORTS
<<<<<<<<<snip>>>>>>>>>>>
According to the affidavit, Grosenheider told authorities he threw the safe into an apartment complex Dumpster near his home. Authorities said the safe hasn't been found.
DianeB
07-13-2008, 01:52 PM
I have to wonder why they would wait a MONTH to search the landfill?
Is this disinformation or more bad reporting?
Considering the case concerns CP, you'd think they would have conducted an intensive search immediately & not waited for trash to settle, to decompose or even possibly animals to walk off with potential evidence.They didn't. An AP story posted on the Houston Chronicle site on Friday says the FBI has been searching the landfill for a week:
Erik Vasys, an FBI spokesman, said investigators have searched for the safe over the last week. Vasys said Thursday was not the first day the landfill had been searched.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5883129.html
Hasn't it been just about a week since Grosenheider's extensive interviews with the FBI?
I'm a little puzzled as to why it would take so long to sift through newly-buried refuse, but there may be a lot of it (holiday weekend), and they may be going very slowly. On the other hand, Grosenheider may be lying.
DianeB
07-13-2008, 01:54 PM
There's also the possibility that someone may have seen the stuff in the dumpster and walked off with it.
strach304
07-13-2008, 02:06 PM
becca,
You may find "The Problem Of Evil: Comprehending the Incomprehensible" (http://www.vnews.com/07092008/4941888.htm), Wednesday's (7/9) editorial in the Vermont Valley News daily a worthwhile read.
zool
Thanks for posting that Zool. :) My first reaction in so many of these cases is WHY? No matter what info eventually does come out or after trial that question is never actually answered for me.
DianeB
07-13-2008, 02:10 PM
I've been trying to find something that would date the newly-posted Gagnon photo.
The teddy bear looks like the design used by the Vermont Teddy Bear Company, but I can't find a date as to when its little overall outfit was introduced.
Overalls: http://shop.vermontteddybear.com/basicsoveralls.html
Plaid shirt: http://shop.vermontteddybear.com/cowboy.html
The patent for the computer speaker mounting brackets was applied for in 1994 and issued in 1997:
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT5639060
As someone with a degree in mechanical engineering technology, I'm guessing that Gagnon might be an 'early adopter' of new technology, so maybe the photo is mid-late 90's?
(If we had more photos to work with, we could probably date them by the height of his forehead as his hair recedes, like rings on a tree!)
SuziQ
07-13-2008, 02:15 PM
I'm a little puzzled as to why it would take so long to sift through newly-buried refuse, but there may be a lot of it (holiday weekend), and they may be going very slowly. On the other hand, Grosenheider may be lying.
In the Lori Hacking case, LE knew immediately what dumpster she was in and where it was dumped. It still took months to find 15 pounds of her. Landfill searches are the worst and rarely result in the object of the search being found. At some point the search had to be conducted by volunteers as it was deemed too hazardous to search. The good thing here is a safe is pretty hard to destroy.
At the below link is an article that explains a little bit of what was involved in the Lori Hacking search.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20040729/ai_n11467095
(snip)
Trying to find anything in a place where upward of 2,500 tons of new solid waste is deposited daily is literally like looking for a needle in a haystack, Stewart added. Police have concentrated their efforts so far on an area the size of "one to two acres," he said.
SuziQ
07-13-2008, 02:20 PM
Here is another article discussing the difficulty of the Lori Hacking landfill search.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-08-25-missing-wife_x.htm
Police acknowledged Tuesday they may never find Lori Hacking's body at a county landfill, but still are committed to finishing the search.
Police and cadaver dogs are about two-thirds through a search of 4,600 tons of trash — all the refuse dumped at a landfill the day Hacking's husband reported her missing July 19.
Police are resting the six dogs but plan to resume the search Thursday night.
"We're searching that day's worth of garbage, and hopefully we'll find her there," Detective Dwayne Baird said Tuesday. "But there is a possibility she's not there or that we may not locate her there. We cannot say absolutely, because we don't know."
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 02:27 PM
I just got off the phone with a woman from the Burlington Free Press and she said that it was a photo given by a family member and they did not specify a date to the photo.
Also they have not published a recent photo because it is not avaliable for release.
Which means that the FBI has not authorized the facility to release Gagnon's photo to the media. They do not anticipate the release anytime soon.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
strach304
07-13-2008, 02:28 PM
DS, thanks so much for the new pic :blowkiss:
I think a reward for the safe is one option just in case someone did lift it from the dumpster.
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 02:31 PM
DS, thanks so much for the new pic :blowkiss:
I think a reward for the safe is one option just in case someone did lift it from the dumpster.
My dearest Strach,:blowkiss:
You are very welcome, although old, it is newly posted.
All of my Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows
lisalei321
07-13-2008, 02:32 PM
Hey guys:wave:, I'm new here, been lurking for a while and just figured out the registration process.
I look forward to posting with all of you.
Tom'sGirl
07-13-2008, 02:34 PM
I just got off the phone with a woman from the Burlington Free Press and she said that it was a photo given by a family member and they did not specify a date to the photo.
Also they have not published a recent photo because it is not avaliable for release.
Which means that the FBI has not authorized the facility to release Gagnon's photo to the media. They do not anticipate the release anytime soon.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
Thank you for this information d_s, and for taking the time to post it for us.
strach304
07-13-2008, 02:38 PM
I have a question about the whole CP problem? Hopefully someone can give me a reasonable answer. I know how LE came across the Chester Stiles guy and then later id'd the child but what about all these others we constantly hear about? In this case the Russian pics can't be traced back to the victims. I know they can't publish the children's faces in the media. What is done in this regard if anything to try and locate the children and the offenders when that applies.
DianeB
07-13-2008, 02:41 PM
Welcome, lisalei.
Thanks for the landfill-search links, SuziQ. I mistakenly thought it would be much easier, given that it's an enclosed area.
WCAX is posting this image of the San Antonio landfill search - I think it may be a still from the TX news helicopter footage.
http://i37.tinypic.com/2dkehqe.jpg
strach304
07-13-2008, 02:41 PM
Hey guys:wave:, I'm new here, been lurking for a while and just figured out the registration process.
I look forward to posting with all of you.
Welcome to WS :)
Adalena935
07-13-2008, 02:47 PM
Hey guys:wave:, I'm new here, been lurking for a while and just figured out the registration process.
I look forward to posting with all of you.
Welcome!
:)
Taximom
07-13-2008, 02:52 PM
I think this is an old photo of Gagnon probably while he was at Cassandra's. It may not be 4 years old tho...because we do know that Gagnon was still in and out of her life after they split up. The snowmen look like someone probably decorated for the Holidays. The teddy bear looks like a kid's toy and the figurine could be something Cassandra collects. I don't think they have any other meanings.
His hair and facial hair don't seem to look like the sketch drawn in the courtroom and makes me think the photo is much older. Some men wear the same type of glasses for years.
Thank you for stating this about what is around the pc desk in this photo, SS. I too think what is around the pc area (and apparently tv area) probably doesn't mean a lot especially if others were in the home.
Regarding the landfill search, God bless those searchers. That is one nasty job. I hope they can use metal detectors. LE really wants to find this safe...and that leads me to think there's a lot more to this case than we know (although we've probably been close with our guesses).
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 02:58 PM
I still have a hard time believing KG's account of ditching the safe. If he did, he didn't ditch the contents and if they find the safe...I am willing to make a major wager that they will find KG's fingerprints on the inside of that safe where he removed the material it contained. I realize they have to look in the landfill...just in case...but I think it will prove to be a red herring.
CarpeDiem
07-13-2008, 03:00 PM
I agree, the whole 'big glasses thing goin on' looks like his other photos. But, maybe he still wears that type??? The computer set-up also looks outdated.
In the caption below the photo it said undated family Photo.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2iw1zeo.jpg
That photo can probably be dated best by the model of the television, which isn't that old. It's a cheapy basic model though.
Elley Mae
07-13-2008, 03:06 PM
Hey guys:wave:, I'm new here, been lurking for a while and just figured out the registration process.
I look forward to posting with all of you.
Welcome lisalei nice to have a fresh poster.
LI_Mom
07-13-2008, 03:10 PM
They didn't. An AP story posted on the Houston Chronicle site on Friday says the FBI has been searching the landfill for a week:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5883129.html
Hasn't it been just about a week since Grosenheider's extensive interviews with the FBI?
I'm a little puzzled as to why it would take so long to sift through newly-buried refuse, but there may be a lot of it (holiday weekend), and they may be going very slowly. On the other hand, Grosenheider may be lying.
Thanks for that link, Diane.
If they've been searching "for a week" it still seems they did NOT secure the area immediately or start the search as soon as they heard about the alleged safe.
And as far as I know, they didn't even ask the public's help in locating the safe or promise a reward for its return.
I don't know... is this the best DHS can do to fight CP???? God help us all.
LI_Mom
07-13-2008, 03:14 PM
I still have a hard time believing KG's account of ditching the safe. If he did, he didn't ditch the contents and if they find the safe...I am willing to make a major wager that they will find KG's fingerprints on the inside of that safe where he removed the material it contained. I realize they have to look in the landfill...just in case...but I think it will prove to be a red herring.
ITA.
I think this was part of the plan to throw off investigators & maybe to buy time.
Who knows.... maybe all they really wanted to do was to implicate KG for some unknown reason?
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 03:16 PM
I have a question regarding myspace accounts.
Do people have control over what adds are placed on their myspace page?
There is a reason why I ask this.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 03:24 PM
No, they don't...unless they are posted in the comments section then they can be deleted from the page. Myspace controls the other ads.
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 03:26 PM
Welcome to WS, Lisalei! :)
lisalei321
07-13-2008, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the welcome! I've been following this and the FLDS case closely, it's nice to find a like minded community.
SO Michael Jacques was abused when he was a child?
http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2008/07/13/prosecutor_had_fought_jacques_probation_release/
In the hearing, Jacques traced his behavior to abuse he'd suffered as a child, although he didn't describe it or name who was responsible.
"So, some of the things that were identified right in the very beginning was my own anger issues surrounding my own, my own abuse and from that stemmed, you know, my ... attitude towards people in generally, actually, but particularly towards women," he told Davenport.
dark_shadows
07-13-2008, 03:44 PM
No, they don't...unless they are posted in the comments section then they can be deleted from the page. Myspace controls the other ads.
Dearest SS,:blowkiss:
Thank-you.
My hair stood on end when I watched video footage on LiveLeak.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f71_1215054331
If you watch the video and see the add at the 01:46 part of the video, you will see what I mean. The add right next to where it says female 14 years cullman, egypt.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Tom'sGirl
07-13-2008, 03:44 PM
SO Michael Jacques was abused when he was a child?
http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2008/07/13/prosecutor_had_fought_jacques_probation_release/
In the hearing, Jacques traced his behavior to abuse he'd suffered as a child, although he didn't describe it or name who was responsible.
"So, some of the things that were identified right in the very beginning was my own anger issues surrounding my own, my own abuse and from that stemmed, you know, my ... attitude towards people in generally, actually, but particularly towards women," he told Davenport.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2376433&postcount=10
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2376433&postcount=10
Thanks Tom's Girl :)
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 03:53 PM
Dearest SS,:blowkiss:
Thank-you.
My hair stood on end when I watched video footage on LiveLeak.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f71_1215054331
If you watch the video and see the add at the 01:46 part of the video, you will see what I mean. The add right next to where it says female 14 years cullman, egypt.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadowsYes, I have seen that ad on my own myspace page and it is put there by myspace. While freaky...it is nothing relative to the case. Very poor choice of ads for myspace to have on a girl's page that went missing and ends up this way tho. It is an unfortunate coincidence.
Elley Mae
07-13-2008, 04:05 PM
After watching the video at live leak and seeing the LE coming out of MJ's house, was that a metal detector in his hands. I just thought that to be strange. I wonder were they needing to use that? Just curious.
strach304
07-13-2008, 04:06 PM
From the moment I saw MJ's claim of personal abuse and anger towards women I wouldn't believe a word of it without proof. He's standing in front of a judge convicted of a very violent crime but wants leniency so he gives an excuse of being abused himself. I have seen that tactic used to death. They play the victim themselves as an explanation for what they've done and who they've become but isn't always true. We know the victim often becomes the victimizer but look at the many people who do not follow that path.
Tom'sGirl
07-13-2008, 04:12 PM
From the moment I saw MJ's claim of personal abuse and anger towards women I wouldn't believe a word of it without proof. He's standing in front of a judge convicted of a very violent crime but wants leniency so he gives an excuse of being abused himself. I have seen that tactic used to death. They play the victim themselves as an explanation for what they've done and who they've become but isn't always true. We know the victim often becomes the victimizer but look at the many people who do not follow that path.
Right, the majority DON'T, let alone become a murderer :rolleyes:
Tom'sGirl
07-13-2008, 04:15 PM
After watching the video at live leak and seeing the LE coming out of MJ's house, was that a metal detector in his hands. I just thought that to be strange. I wonder were they needing to use that? Just curious.
Looking for metal trace under floors/wall/ceiling???
adnoid
07-13-2008, 04:15 PM
I honestly don't believe that anyone's intent here is to "re-victimize" the victims. Everyone here has shown (rightfully) nothing but compassion and sympathy for them.
In a previous post I talked about the rampant speculation (which I dislike) aspect of this forum, and about hypothesizing.
People are trying to understand WHY Brooke was "targeted" and the events that led to her kidnapping and death....
It is true that the speculation can take twists and turns that some find disturbing. We are careful about the type of speculation allowed - it's a good group of people here that come up with some interesting angles.
The old CTV board (now called InSession) has been down for some time, and the new CTV board - the rebranded TruTV - has a broken registration system, so we're getting a lot of new folks here. We are somewhat more selective and we've had a couple folks that just cannot make it here due to the level of respect for others we require. But we are getting a lot of very good, sharp folks and we're all really happy for that!
...Of course you may disagree, but how does questioning anyone's potential previous involvement in Breckenridge not have a bearing on the case?
By considering all of the possibilities, perhaps it would increase understanding (and yes, intellectual growth). Perceptions are tricky... I did not see ANYONE "blaming the victims" in any way, shape, manner or form...
It is a fine line. We often assume some background knowledge from our fellow posters, which can lead to the situation where we are examining behavior in an effort to understand it and to an outsider or newcomer it sounds like we could possibly be excusing or condoning it. Talking about the behavior of victims of sexual assault is especially dangerous in this respect.
On another board we had an actual pedophile (or a really good impostor) post a few times, talking about how the little girls would "come on" to him and how it was discrimination to not allow young children their sexual freedom. I was not a moderator, and I got a time out for my vigorous response to this sicko. While we generally allow a wide variety of points of view, believe me, anyone who comes on here spewing that crap will get kicked off so fast it will make your head spin. Brooke and AR did NOT ask for this. They were children, and we're not going to accept anyone here who goes down that sicko road.
...As I said in another post, however, whether or not a public forum is the place to discuss these things is debatable... I'm fairly certain that there are people lurking/reading this forum that know things pertaining to this case that have not yet been revealed, and may be equally upset by some of the misinformation presented here.
I, for one, appreciate any discussion...
As do I.
Elley Mae
07-13-2008, 04:16 PM
After some thought I now think that was probably a light (UV).
texas48
07-13-2008, 04:23 PM
Thanks, Texas....I have not left the board...and do not plan to...
I wonder where I done picked up a Texas expression? I learned it from my father, who was a Brooklyn boy....he must have learned it in the Army....
Imby, and twinkiesmom, I totally agree with what you both said....Well....I will say they we (TEXAS) have adopted you. Stand your ground!
From the moment I saw MJ's claim of personal abuse and anger towards women I wouldn't believe a word of it without proof. He's standing in front of a judge convicted of a very violent crime but wants leniency so he gives an excuse of being abused himself. I have seen that tactic used to death. They play the victim themselves as an explanation for what they've done and who they've become but isn't always true. We know the victim often becomes the victimizer but look at the many people who do not follow that path.
This is clearly the tack he's going to try. I suspect it worked in the past with his previous conviction....but enough is enough.
texas48
07-13-2008, 04:29 PM
LOL, IMO, most likely that term can be claimed by all 50 states as their 'word.' Heehee,...........my parents were from Massachusetts but I was born and raised in California and I remember this word from waaayyyy back.
:D
franLook at this..Maybe we all have something in common and just maybe we got a few smiles going on here.
texas48
07-13-2008, 04:35 PM
Hey guys:wave:, I'm new here, been lurking for a while and just figured out the registration process.
I look forward to posting with all of you.
Hi to you lisalei. I am also new here so from me to :blowkiss:...Welcome. Just jump right in with both feet.
lightinthedark
07-13-2008, 04:38 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, and I don't remember where I read this, but it was stated that the computer forensic team is looking through 6 different computers. Which confuses me a little because if they didn't find MJ's missing hard drive, or the hard drive in the land fill, that would make a total of 8 all together.
Between the Jacques houshold and Gagnon's, 8 computers? Though I know some people have more than one computer in their homes, it makes me curious if all belong to RG and MJ. Just a thought. Please tell me if I'm wrong, missed something, or have been misinformed. Anyone's input would be appreciated, thank you.
Taximom
07-13-2008, 04:44 PM
We know MJ used his work laptop as well as his home pc for his dirty work. God knows what Gagnon used. I would think they are also looking at any pc's that the minors used as well, plus the library pc's.
Correct me if I am wrong, and I don't remember where I read this, but it was stated that the computer forensic team is looking through 6 different computers. .....Anyone's input would be appreciated, thank you.
lightinthedark,
I believe that you read the above in the Burlington Free Press article: "Digital sleuths play... (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080713/NEWS01/80712014&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL). It mentioned that:
Burlington Police Chief Mike Schirling, who coordinates local, state and federal agency efforts for the task force, said the Brooke Bennett case involved at least six computers, each associated with at least one other peripheral device or network — which could include a flash drive, cell phones and online storage.
zool
lightinthedark,
The wording of the 6 computer network plus peripherals made me think that LE was developing the notion of a "Pornography Network".
lightinthedark
07-13-2008, 04:52 PM
Thank you Zool and Taximom :)
marly56
07-13-2008, 04:57 PM
I still have a hard time believing KG's account of ditching the safe. If he did, he didn't ditch the contents and if they find the safe...I am willing to make a major wager that they will find KG's fingerprints on the inside of that safe where he removed the material it contained. I realize they have to look in the landfill...just in case...but I think it will prove to be a red herring.
i dont believe he got rid of the safe OR the contents...plus its too easy to pass ''the goods'' onto someone else. from what ive read about pedos they live for these materials, they are more valuable than gold to them for their personal use [ugh]and then to copy and swap with others.
texas48
07-13-2008, 05:00 PM
In response to post 196..I have been a poster on the In Session Board for a long time and I am not here just because their board went down for repairs. I was a member here before that occurred and so were other In Session posters. Oh what the heck.....I am not gona get into a discussion about post 196. Maybe I took it the wrong way. See Ya Folks.
marly56
07-13-2008, 05:09 PM
Dearest SS,:blowkiss:
Thank-you.
My hair stood on end when I watched video footage on LiveLeak.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f71_1215054331
If you watch the video and see the add at the 01:46 part of the video, you will see what I mean. The add right next to where it says female 14 years cullman, egypt.
Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
the ad is so cryptic.
Pinecone
07-13-2008, 05:14 PM
I am new to this site. I have been reading the threads for the past 4 days. It seems much more respectful than the comments on most of the newspaper articles I have been reading. I grew up in the town that Brooke lived in. I think that everyone is in such a state of shock over this. My heart breaks for this young girl and our communities. I think that this is beyond my comprehension for the brutality of this crime. I too, have many questions about why it seemed that there were so few adults in Brooke's life that seemed to offer much in the way of 'safety' and it seems like every day there is more that comes to light. It certainly seems like there were so many predatory males in their history. I believe that Brooke's grandmother had married a man who had served time for raping a teenager in Central Vermont a long time ago. I hate to put too much information in because I think that this brings back so much to other sexual assault victims. I think that it would certainly explain some of the actions,(though not all) of Cassandra and Denise. I wish that I knew how you end this sort of cycle. Certainly keeping offenders in jail longer is a first step, but how do you get them in jail in the first place if they are able to convince the kids and the moms that it is not happening. I have new respect for the mothers that have lost their homes and often their families to protect their children. There are many courageous women who make these choices every day with very little support and encouragement. My hats off to all of them.
lightinthedark
07-13-2008, 05:20 PM
Welcome Pinecone :wave:
SewingDeb
07-13-2008, 05:37 PM
Welcome to all the new posters!
brians_babe
07-13-2008, 05:44 PM
Hi, newbie here. Just wanted to applaud everyone for all of their hard work. I have gotten so much information from here about this case. This is an awesome forum. I was here years ago during the Laci Peterson case, however do not remember that login anymore. Again, thank you everyone. Keep up the hard work!
texas48
07-13-2008, 05:47 PM
Welcome Pinecone...New imput is always appreciated:woohoo:
lisalei321
07-13-2008, 06:15 PM
I have to admit, I too am a refuge from the IS board, that being said, I have been lurking here since the Warren Jeff's trial (I just couldn't figure out why my e-mail address was never accepted lo and behold it was because I needed to use my IP providers e-mail).
That being said, I can't believe that any child that has been under a RSO's thumb since the age of 2 is anything but a victim. How can she be anything but? For her to have accepted being brought into a program at the age of 9 without questioning it, she had to have been groomed since the day he was brought into her family.
That poor child (and yes she still is a child) is going to need a very understanding therapist (sp?).
LI_Mom
07-13-2008, 06:17 PM
lightinthedark,
The wording of the 6 computer network plus peripherals made me think that LE was developing the notion of a "Pornography Network".
From Wiki:
In computer hardware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_hardware), a peripheral device is any device attached to a computer in order to expand its functionality (basically input and output devices together are known as peripherals). Some of the more common peripheral devices are printers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_printer), scanners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scanner), disk drives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_drive), tape drives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape_drive), microphones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone), speakers, and cameras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera). Peripheral devices can also include other computers on a network system. A device can also refer to a non-physical item, such as a pseudo terminal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo_terminal), a RAM drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive), or a network adapter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_adapter).
--
marly56
07-13-2008, 06:23 PM
lightinthedark,
The wording of the 6 computer network plus peripherals made me think that LE was developing the notion of a "Pornography Network".
i had the same thought..i also am reflecting on incestous behavior of males of past generations and how it was taboo and never mentioned. the girls and women would just live in shame with their secret. now women are working and equal in the eyes of the law... i personally believe that these types of predators have been around since the beginning of time..these types meaning men [and sometimes women] have a compulsion to corrupt a child.i think in the past generations men were more gentle and would poke and prod kids in the family untill they found one that they could use that would keep quiet qnd suffer the shame. we must remember in the past men dominated not only the family but they received respect from all women and children WHERE-EVER they lived and worked...these days with the internet[sex rings] offering such a such a variety of children to view and have fantasy about i dont see any way this can be stopped. then there are the extremers that act on these thoughts and then there are the entrepeneurs...my point is that there are so many layers to this crime amd so many men seem to be falling prey to this compulsion.
philamena
07-13-2008, 06:30 PM
I need to say something. I found this post incredibly mean. SNIP
I'm with Dark Shadows, put me on "ignore." This will be my last post.
If you or anyone else here is saying unkind things about the MINOR AGED VICTIMS of this or any case at WS it is against the TOS.
FYI-You need to put me on ignore--that way you can't read my post.:rolleyes:
LI_Mom
07-13-2008, 06:31 PM
the ad is so cryptic.
Googling seems to show that other kids have wondered why that 'ad' is popping up on MySpace pages. I'm sure LE has inquired as to whether that is something a person donwloads to the page or whether it's an automatic entry.
http://www.vimeo.com/336138
philamena
07-13-2008, 06:33 PM
VTNance..I want to say THANK YOU for your post. I am new here and I have never thought anything I read was mean or gossipy..just very informative and believe that this is what this is all about. We are all here and should be able to post as we want or ask questions as along as we abide by the rules. The "I'm not afraid to hit the alert button" had me somewhat stunned. I am a mother of 3 and grandmother of 7. I did not feel anyone was bashing Brooke by questioning anything. Thnks again VTNance and please continue to post.
Read all 20 threads here about Brooke's murder and the investigation. Rude comments were definitely made about her and AR ---the wonderful mods took care of it.
Back to the topic.
lisalei321
07-13-2008, 06:36 PM
I read all the posts before I started posting. It seemed to me that anyone who tried to make a child responsible for any action, got shot down pretty darn quick!
LI_Mom
07-13-2008, 06:42 PM
i had the same thought..i also am reflecting on incestous behavior of males of past generations and how it was taboo and never mentioned. the girls and women would just live in shame with their secret. now women are working and equal in the eyes of the law... i personally believe that these types of predators have been around since the beginning of time..these types meaning men [and sometimes women] have a compulsion to corrupt a child.i think in the past generations men were more gentle and would poke and prod kids in the family untill they found one that they could use that would keep quiet qnd suffer the shame. we must remember in the past men dominated not only the family but they received respect from all women and children WHERE-EVER they lived and worked...these days with the internet[sex rings] offering such a such a variety of children to view and have fantasy about i dont see any way this can be stopped. then there are the extremers that act on these thoughts and then there are the entrepeneurs...my point is that there are so many layers to this crime amd so many men seem to be falling prey to this compulsion.
I agree that it can't really be stopped.... just slowed down. And there will always be victims. This is an international problem & there's no way you can make laws that will cover everyone.
The most logical way to deal with the problem is to make sure people are aware of the signs & that when victims DO come forward there are EFFECTIVE ways to protect them ASAP.
If communities do not have the resources to really HELP & PROTECT families in danger (from all types of abuse) then you have more & more people who don't think it's worth it to 'tell.'
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 06:44 PM
Googling seems to show that other kids have wondered why that 'ad' is popping up on MySpace pages. I'm sure LE has inquired as to whether that is something a person donwloads to the page or whether it's an automatic entry.
http://www.vimeo.com/336138Probably a bad idea to click that ad now that I have read a few things about viruses around myspace.
You are not able to put your own ads up on myspace unless you are part of the music pages and then posters can download them to their site such as for concerts etc. However, the ads you are seeing such as the "death" ad are put there by myspace exclusively as far as I know...unless someone hacked them.
philamena
07-13-2008, 06:48 PM
SeriouslySearching,
So you're saying those ads on myspace are legit?
From today's online paper.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2008/07/13/prosecutor_had_fought_jacques_probation_release/
Prosecutor had fought Jacques' probation release
Email (javascript:openWindow('http://tools.boston.com/pass-it-on?story_url=http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2008/07/13/prosecutor_had_fought_jacques_probation_release',' mailit','scrollbars,resizable,width=770,height=450 ');)|Print (http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2008/07/13/prosecutor_had_fought_jacques_probation_release?mo de=PF)|Single Page (http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2008/07/13/prosecutor_had_fought_jacques_probation_release/#)| Text size – + By John Curran
Associated Press Writer / July 13, 2008
MONTPELIER, Vt.—
When Michael Jacques came up for early release from probation, a prosecutor didn't think it was a good idea, telling a judge that as a twice-convicted sex offender, Jacques shouldn't go without supervision.
In the 2004 court proceeding, Deputy Orange County State's Attorney Robert DiBartolo told Judge Amy Davenport that Jacques' actions in a 1992 kidnapping and aggravated sexual assault were too brutal to allow him unbridled freedom.
texas48
07-13-2008, 06:57 PM
As old as I am I will never ever understand what the resoning with molesting a child (and I do consider Brooke even at age 12 a child) I quess doctors have been trying to figure this out for centuries with no results. There are so many cases out there that are so disturbing and as much as I pray that eventually something can put a stop to all, I have my doubts. Seems as tho everytime you pick up a paper or turn on tv there is another heart wrenching story. Does anyone remember the Sid Landau, Santa Anam Ca., case. This was another one that was let out after serving only short sentence. As sick as his case is I think MJ is much more disturbed. When oh when can it ever be stopped? I worry everytime one of my granchildren leaves the house. Just do not know what I would do if anything like this hit close to home.
Busylady
07-13-2008, 07:03 PM
The When will you die ad has been around for a long time, just like the Who will you marry, you have a secret crush etc. IIRC several years ago it was a huge issue because when you click on them it takes you to a page you enter your cell phone number and answer the quiz type thing, tiny little print says you will be bill a certain amount of dollars each month. Parents started getting cell phone bills and getting a tad bit upset, do not know if anything was ever done to stop the charges or make it quite obvious when you enter your cell phone number you are going to be charged.
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 07:04 PM
No, Philamena...as they could be put there by malicious means, I guess. I just finished reading an article about how a Yahoo group fed what were meant to be normal ads but instead were adware-laced banners back in 2006 onto myspace and infected thousands with a trojan downloader VBS (backloader?) virus. (Which is very interesting to me as I have lost two computers due to that stupid virus!!!)
SeriouslySearching
07-13-2008, 07:08 PM
The When will you die ad has been around for a long time, just like the Who will you marry, you have a secret crush etc. IIRC several years ago it was a huge issue because when you click on them it takes you to a page you enter your cell phone number and answer the quiz type thing, tiny little print says you will be bill a certain amount of dollars each month. Parents started getting cell phone bills and getting a tad bit upset, do not know if anything was ever done to stop the charges or make it quite obvious when you enter your cell phone number you are going to be charged.Ah! Thanks, Busylady, for the information! Maybe someone needs to ask Tom WTH that ad is for?
texas48
07-13-2008, 07:12 PM
Read all 20 threads here about Brooke's murder and the investigation. Rude comments were definitely made about her and AR the wonderful mods took care of it.
Back to the topic.I have read all threads. I still do not believe anyone was being malicious towards these children. Questions were asked. You believe, I believe..all has an opinion and thats what ths is about. Some of the comments (bashing victims, using their names) was taken care of in a very polite manner by reminding ALL of the rules. Thanks to all mods. All does a great job and what a job you have!!!!!Enough of this and back to subject. :blowkiss:
Busylady
07-13-2008, 07:12 PM
This is what you get when you click on the myspace ad
http://www.swamipredicts.com/20628?C=3971
texas48
07-13-2008, 07:15 PM
i dont believe he got rid of the safe OR the contents...plus its too easy to pass ''the goods'' onto someone else. from what ive read about pedos they live for these materials, they are more valuable than gold to them for their personal use [ugh]and then to copy and swap with others.Does not seem reasonable for someone to toss a safe. I could see him taking it with him or hiding it elsewhere. If he did not honestly know what was in the safe then I think his curiousity would have gotten the best of him. I know it would have most people.
lisalei321
07-13-2008, 07:20 PM
This is what you get when you click on the myspace ad
http://www.swamipredicts.com/20628?C=3971
Florida residents are not allowed to particpate...it took me forever to get out of their "site"
Hailiejade77
07-13-2008, 07:42 PM
Read all 20 threads here about Brooke's murder and the investigation. Rude comments were definitely made about her and AR the wonderful mods took care of it.
Back to the topic.
I have been reading here since Brooke's disappearance and I don't remember anyone making rude comments about them. Could it have been when I was not here and missed it all??? :waitasec: I was just wondering,..
In the Gagnon affidavit, RG admitted to having 5 years worth of "Russian" type child porn.
If anyone please explain what that means ("Russian type"), I'd really appreciate it!
Hailiejade77
07-13-2008, 07:52 PM
In the Gagnon affidavit, RG admitted to having 5 years worth of "Russian" type child porn.
If anyone please explain what that means ("Russian type"), I'd really appreciate it!
The only thing I could think of (and I could be VERY wrong) is maybe kids that are Russian. I am pretty sure I am wrong,.. LOL :confused:
olepi
07-13-2008, 07:56 PM
In the Gagnon affidavit, RG admitted to having 5 years worth of "Russian" type child porn.
If anyone please explain what that means ("Russian type"), I'd really appreciate it!
http://www.crime-research.org/news/17.06.2005/1306/
I got this googling 'fbi russian porn'. I wouldn't want to google anything more 'descriptive'.
texas48
07-13-2008, 07:59 PM
I have been reading here since Brooke's disappearance and I don't remember anyone making rude comments about them. Could it have been when I was not here and missed it all??? :waitasec: I was just wondering,..No..No...No Hailiejade.you did not miss anything. I have read and re-read the threads and can't fnd "rude" comments. What the heck..:woohoo:
LI_Mom
07-13-2008, 08:13 PM
Probably a bad idea to click that ad now that I have read a few things about viruses around myspace.
You are not able to put your own ads up on myspace unless you are part of the music pages and then posters can download them to their site such as for concerts etc. However, the ads you are seeing such as the "death" ad are put there by myspace exclusively as far as I know...unless someone hacked them.
That's probably the risk you run any place you click on ads or allow scripts to run on your system?
If hackers can break into government computers, how safe do you think the average citizen really is? Not very.
LI_Mom
07-13-2008, 08:21 PM
This is what you get when you click on the myspace ad
http://www.swamipredicts.com/20628?C=3971
SiteAdvisor doesn't report it for adware or spyware.
http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/swamipredicts.com/postid?p=1009011
People should always use a popup blocker & other security measures when surfing the web.
EnvoyDriver61
07-13-2008, 08:22 PM
My take on the "Russian Porn" comment: he was trying to minimize his involvement. He wasn't involved with porn with American kids in it, just Russian ones. In his mind, he probably wasn't as bad as someone who was victimizing someone local. It may even be a type of Freudian slip: he's subconsciously distancing himself from MJ, who was victimizing local girls.
http://www.crime-research.org/news/17.06.2005/1306/
I got this googling 'fbi russian porn'. I wouldn't want to google anything more 'descriptive'.
olepi - Thanks for your reply, but that didn't tell me anything about what Russian type child porn is.
What I'd like to find out is what makes Russian type different from any other child porn.
I know what you mean about googling that stuff. Could be considered incriminating, I'd think.
My take on the "Russian Porn" comment: he was trying to minimize his involvement. He wasn't involved with porn with American kids in it, just Russian ones. In his mind, he probably wasn't as bad as someone who was victimizing someone local. It may even be a type of Freudian slip: he's subconsciously distancing himself from MJ, who was victimizing local girls.
Thanks for your input. I supposed that could be a possibility. It still doesn't really satisfy my curiousity though. In the affadavit, it specifically said "Russian type child porn". I would like to know what differentiates the 'type'.
The only thing I could think of (and I could be VERY wrong) is maybe kids that are Russian. I am pretty sure I am wrong,.. LOL :confused:
Sorry Hailiejade, I just noticed your reply. I think that's pretty much a given, that the kids are Russian.
My take on it is there is more to it than just that. But thank you for your reply!
LI_Mom
07-13-2008, 08:34 PM
My take on the "Russian Porn" comment: he was trying to minimize his involvement. He wasn't involved with porn with American kids in it, just Russian ones. In his mind, he probably wasn't as bad as someone who was victimizing someone local. It may even be a type of Freudian slip: he's subconsciously distancing himself from MJ, who was victimizing local girls.
That sounds pretty logical.
MoonFlwr
07-13-2008, 08:38 PM
Hey guys:wave:, I'm new here, been lurking for a while and just figured out the registration process.
I look forward to posting with all of you.
:Welcome-12-june:
Had a few hiccups myself....with the registration process! ;)
DianeB
07-13-2008, 08:38 PM
I don't know that Russian child porn represents a specific 'type', but the consensus seems to be that its child pornography industry has grown huge ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
From a children's rights advocacy site called ECPAT Int'l, based in Thailand:
Experts say that 25% of the pornography on global Internet websites contains child pornography. Among these, more than 50% contain child pornography from Russia. Although the precise number of children involved in the production of Russian pornography is unknown, experts report there are some tens of thousands of such children.
The business is run by criminal networks that manufacture, distribute and export (to Germany, Britain, the United States, Italy, Canada and elsewhere) photographs and video records of a pornographic nature, including violent sexual assaults on children.
The production and consumption of pornographic products featuring children is especially pronounced in Moscow and St Petersburg. In the mid-1990s, pornographic images were mostly imported into Russia. They were expensive and distributed in narrow circles. Nowadays, one can buy videocassettes with child pornography at practically any railway station or marketplace in these towns. Prices for child pornography on the Moscow market are practically the same as for a licensed film cassette, 165 to 170 roubles (US$6-7); huge turnover makes these low prices possible. A well-known 12-part pornographic film called Malyavki (Little Ones) features boys as young as 6 years old. The popular Russian web search system Jandex yields no less than 405 sites and 19,864 pages in reply to the request for “child porn in Moscow”. http://www.ecpat.net/eng/Russia.asp
ETA: This may mirror the rise in organized crime (the Russian Mafia) that has flourished since the breakup of the USSR.
I found this report in the Guardian that contradicts what someone posted about snuff films being an urban legend.
British link to 'snuff' videos
published October 1, 2000
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4070446,00.html
I'm starting to think there's a possibility of "Russian type" as being a lot more violent then porn that's not classified as "Russian". I could be totally off base though.
MoonFlwr
07-13-2008, 08:58 PM
I am new to this site. I have been reading the threads for the past 4 days. It seems much more respectful than the comments on most of the newspaper articles I have been reading. I grew up in the town that Brooke lived in. I think that everyone is in such a state of shock over this. My heart breaks for this young girl and our communities. I think that this is beyond my comprehension for the brutality of this crime. I too, have many questions about why it seemed that there were so few adults in Brooke's life that seemed to offer much in the way of 'safety' and it seems like every day there is more that comes to light. It certainly seems like there were so many predatory males in their history. I believe that Brooke's grandmother had married a man who had served time for raping a teenager in Central Vermont a long time ago. I hate to put too much information in because I think that this brings back so much to other sexual assault victims. I think that it would certainly explain some of the actions,(though not all) of Cassandra and Denise. I wish that I knew how you end this sort of cycle. Certainly keeping offenders in jail longer is a first step, but how do you get them in jail in the first place if they are able to convince the kids and the moms that it is not happening. I have new respect for the mothers that have lost their homes and often their families to protect their children. There are many courageous women who make these choices every day with very little support and encouragement. My hats off to all of them.
Hi PineCone :seeya:
Yes, I wish I could figure out the answer about how to end the cycle, too! :confused:
Enjoyed your post and getting some info from someone who knows the area! :)
DianeB
07-13-2008, 09:03 PM
From the article Liz posted:
Many customers repeatedly ordered videos from him. The Naples newspaper Il Mattino published a transcript of an alleged email exchange between a prospective client and the Russian vendors.
'Promise me you're not ripping me off,' says the Italian.
'Relax, I can assure you this one really dies,' the Russian responds.
'The last time I paid and I didn't get what I wanted.'
'What do you want?'
'To see them die.' I can't even think of a word strong enough to convey how disgusting this is.
I don't know that Russian child porn represents a specific 'type', but the consensus seems to be that its child pornography industry has grown huge ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
That's why it caught my eye in the affidavit, it specifically said "Russian" type child porn.
Immediately upon reading it, I questioned it. As to why it was wasn't just stated as Russian child porn.
I really feel that there is something more to it. But, that's just me. ;)
Thanks for your reply and the interesting read.
Also ....
:Welcome-12-june: to our new members!! :)
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