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christine2448
07-14-2008, 01:20 PM
Please continue GENERAL discussions here. Look around BROOKE'S FORUM (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=163)there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.

I advise everyone to read the RULES of WS, Long (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66869)and Short Version (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66872)and also to read THIS STICKY (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67094) before participating. TIA.


Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.

Welcome all newbies!!!!!!!!!!!! :blowkiss: I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

dark_shadows
07-14-2008, 01:32 PM
I went to reply and the thread was closed! This is from the last page of thread#20.








------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally Posted by dark_shadows http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2379813#post2379813)
My very dearest Liz,:blowkiss:
Hello my friend!

Jacques and Gagnon are in state facilities, being held as Federal detainees.
You will not find either one in the BOP listings due to the fact that they are secured in the 2 state facilities until they are sentenced and transported to a Federal Holding Facility. Once there, it will be determined what their main facility will be. If they are sententenced to death, they would most likely end up in the Indiana Federal Facility. I say again, most likely.

Due to the fact that the Feds pay the state of Vermont for a certain amount of beds for detainee holding and detainee release, they are on the headcount of the State of Vermont.
Jacques is in the Northwest Correctional Facility in St. Albans. There is a unit that is a lockdown unit. When a detainee enters that facility, they automatically go to that secure unit. These are 1 man cells. They are assigned a caseworker. They are allowed out of their cell for 1 hour recreation in a secured hallway and to use the phone (collect calls). If their behavior has been found acceptable, or if they are not on PC status, after a period of time, they can exercise in a bullpen or watch tv in a secured room.

As far as Gagnon goes, he is being held in the Chittenden Regional Correctional Facility in South Burlington. He is held in the segragation unit and is only allowed out for 1 hour a day. He would do the 1 hour excercise in the hallway where his cell is. They are 2 man cells, but I believe that Gagnon is being held with no cellmate. That is how it was when Brian Rooney was housed in the same unit.

I hope this helps.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows


Wow it's sad that such great CARE is being given to these two POS. I wish someone had taken that much CARE of Brooke and her safety.

d_s, your knowledge of the prison system is utterly amazing!
__________________
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Prov.22:6



Thank-you so very much Miss Lisa!:blowkiss:
I worked in both of those facilities.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Starr58
07-14-2008, 01:41 PM
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs....gory=BENNETT01

lightinthedark
07-14-2008, 01:42 PM
Miss_Lisa,

No, I have not heard if AR and Cassandra have talked to or seen eachother.

lightinthedark
07-14-2008, 01:53 PM
Dark_Shadows,

Thank you so very much for your knowledge! You are a wealth of information!

:blowkiss:

Lightinthedark:)

miss lisa
07-14-2008, 01:59 PM
shouldn't we be hearing some murder charges by now or will we have to wait until after the 17th?

miss lisa
07-14-2008, 02:02 PM
d_s,
are MJ or RG allowed any form of visitation?

philamena
07-14-2008, 02:12 PM
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs....gory=BENNETT01


Hi Starr, the link isn't working for me.
IS there another link to the timesargus that my have the information?

Tom'sGirl
07-14-2008, 02:20 PM
shouldn't we be hearing some murder charges by now or will we have to wait until after the 17th?
We may have to wait to see what the determination of COD is before those charges can/will be charged.

Starr58
07-14-2008, 02:28 PM
Hi Starr, the link isn't working for me.
IS there another link to the timesargus that my have the information?

Try this one:

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=BENNETT01

miss lisa
07-14-2008, 02:30 PM
We may have to wait to see what the determination of COD is before those charges can/will be charged.

Wouldn't COD/TOD be determined by now just not just disclosed publicly yet?

dark_shadows
07-14-2008, 02:32 PM
Dark_Shadows,

Thank you so very much for your knowledge! You are a wealth of information!

:blowkiss:

Lightinthedark:)
My dear Lightinthedark,:blowkiss:
I appreciate that so very much.
Thank-you.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

d_s,
are MJ or RG allowed any form of visitation?
My dearest Miss lisa,:blowkiss:
Jacques would have a visit on closed circuit tv. Both can have attorney visits at approved hours. Attorney visits have to be approved and reasonable notice given. Attorneys do not have to be on the visitor list.
Special requests for visitors must be approved and that could take awhile due to background checks of the visitors reguested. There are certain times and days pertaining to the visits. Both of these are no-contact visits.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

marly56
07-14-2008, 02:36 PM
Hi Starr, the link isn't working for me.
IS there another link to the timesargus that my have the information?
thanx for the link !

Medea
07-14-2008, 02:39 PM
Wouldn't COD/TOD be determined by now just not just disclosed publicly yet?

I would think so, especially since her funeral was open casket. I've thought from the beginning she was strangled or smothered.

There could be all kinds of reasons for the delay...they may not want to file charges until they've completely investigated the child pornography angle and given themselves more time to find the safe in Texas, or they may be negotiating some form of plea agreement with Gagnon about his knowledge of Brooke's death or they may not be satisfied yet that they know what happened at Jacques house and don't want to close out any avenues by laying charges.

miss lisa
07-14-2008, 02:40 PM
My dear Lightinthedark,:blowkiss:
I appreciate that so very much.
Thank-you.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows


My dearest Miss lisa,:blowkiss:
Jacques would have a visit on closed circuit tv. Both can have attorney visits at approved hours. Attorney visits have to be approved and reasonable notice given. Attorneys do not have to be on the visitor list.
Special requests for visitors must be approved and that could take awhile due to background checks of the visitors reguested. There are certain times and days pertaining to the visits. Both of these are no-contact visits.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

i wonder if either have had ANY visitors besides attorneys...

Soooo....thinking out loud here....
IF KG wanted to visit RG he could?
Does anyone know if RG's attorney is court appointed or paid for by himself or KG?

dark_shadows
07-14-2008, 02:43 PM
i wonder if either have had ANY visitors besides attorneys...

Soooo....thinking out loud here....
IF KG wanted to visit RG he could?
Does anyone know if RG's attorney is court appointed or paid for by himself or KG?
Dearest Miss lisa,:blowkiss:
No, KG would not be able to visit. Due to the investigation.
I posted Gagnon's attorney's name a few threads ago along with Jacques attorney name.
They both have Federal Public Defenders. Nolan.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

philamena
07-14-2008, 02:46 PM
Try this one:

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=BENNETT01


Thank you Starr!

Leila
07-14-2008, 03:22 PM
Wouldn't COD/TOD be determined by now just not just disclosed publicly yet?

I remember LE saying that they were awaiting toxicology results and it would take about 3 - 4 weeks. So, I'm assuming that they won't release COD/TOD until they have the complete autopsy report with toxicology.

Tom'sGirl
07-14-2008, 03:32 PM
I remember LE saying that they were awaiting toxicology results and it would take about 3 - 4 weeks. So, I'm assuming that they won't release COD/TOD until they have the complete autopsy report with toxicology.
I agree Leila, as it's been in other cases, and sometimes we didn't know all for months.

dark_shadows
07-14-2008, 03:59 PM
I truly wish that the COD would be out prior to the 17th.

I also want to say that my heart goes out to all of the Law Enforcement agencies who are involved in Brooke's case. My whole heart truly hurts for the ones who found Brooke's body and to the Medical Examiner.
I thank the Special Investigations Unit in Burlington for discovering the forensic data on the computors.



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

miss lisa
07-14-2008, 04:05 PM
I truly wish that the COD would be out prior to the 17th.

I also want to say that my heart goes out to all of the Law Enforcement agencies who are involved in Brooke's case. My whole heart truly hurts for the ones who found Brooke's body and to the Medical Examiner.
I thank the Special Investigations Unit in Burlington for discovering the forensic data on the computors.



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

I agree. People don't realize how difficult it is on law enforcement. My dad was in law enforcement for 51 years so I can appreciate their position. It's never easy but the pain is amplified when it is a child....

Elley Mae
07-14-2008, 04:19 PM
Does anyone know if AR's boyfriend, has been questioned,his cellphone looked at or computer seized.

nanandjim
07-14-2008, 04:28 PM
Does anyone know if AR's boyfriend, has been questioned,his cellphone looked at or computer seized.
I'd like to know where AR met her boyfriend. If she met him through Myspace, he may be a setup and part of MJ's circle.

LI_Mom
07-14-2008, 04:39 PM
I'd like to know where AR met her boyfriend. If she met him through Myspace, he may be a setup and part of MJ's circle.


He's also a minor. It's most likely he's just a school mate or someone she knows from the community.

LaLaw2000
07-14-2008, 04:42 PM
I think that MJ made films and took pics of AR for sale/distribution, and that RG is the computer person for their little network. I just have the feeling that RG was more the brains of the operation.
Whatever the reason the FBI does not want Gagnon's current pic out in the public would be a good reason, so I will accept it. They seem to not want him to be recognized because it may be a tip off to someone else involved in this sordid mess.
I keep going back to Gagnon because I just have this gut feeling that he went by different identities, depending who he might have been dealing with at the time.
I am totally repulsed at all of the people in this case with the exception of Brooke. And AR is a victim as well. However, she is going to have to have inhouse intensive psychological therapy. She is going to be lost in this world if she does not come to terms with the meaning of right and wrong. I honestly hope she can overcome this long term abuse. Through no fault of her own, she has lived in a fantasy world created by MJ. She now has to live in the real world. If it is not court ordered, I do not have the confidence in Denise to follow through with it.
I am waiting also to see if some reporter manages to get a pic of Gagnon going into or out of the courthouse on the 17th. If the FBI orders that no pics are to be in the public of him, then again, I will give up on it until trial. They would have good resaons, I am sure!
Last thing - does anyone know if RG has a relative named Carmen Gagnon? Thanks!

Elley Mae
07-14-2008, 04:44 PM
Since AR said that she left the house with Juv2(boyfriend) I assume he was driving,how old do you have to be to get a license in Vermont. I know some states its 15 just curious.

SeriouslySearching
07-14-2008, 04:45 PM
I haven't heard the name of Carmen Gagnon before, but I could have missed it. Care to elaborate on why you are asking?

Elley Mae
07-14-2008, 04:46 PM
LaLaw2000 you are probably right, as soon as MJ thought he was in trouble he called gagnon for help with the changes on the times.

LaLaw2000
07-14-2008, 04:47 PM
I haven't heard the name of Carmen Gagnon before, but I could have missed it. Care to elaborate on why you are asking?

There has been no mention of a Carmen Gagnon other than by me. I am just wondering. :)

LI_Mom
07-14-2008, 04:52 PM
Since AR said that she left the house with Juv2(boyfriend) I assume he was driving,how old do you have to be to get a license in Vermont. I know some states its 15 just curious.

I checked...

In VT you can get a junior license at 16.

LaLaw2000
07-14-2008, 05:11 PM
The reason I was wanting to know if RG had a relative by the name of Carmen is because a new listing was made in WhitePages.com in May, 2008 by this name in San Antonio, Texas. Also, a new listing was made in Vermont in May, 2008 by this name. KG's listing was made in May, 2008 for his home in San Antonio, Texas.

A relative by the name of Raymond was listed as living at the residence of Carmen in San Antonio, Texas, in the May, 2008 listing.

Clear as mud? I have just been wondering about possible connections.

Busylady
07-14-2008, 05:19 PM
The Ray living with Carmen is Raymond C, not the same RG.

The reason I was wanting to know if RG had a relative by the name of Carmen is because a new listing was made in WhitePages.com in May, 2008 by this name in San Antonio, Texas. Also, a new listing was made in Vermont in May, 2008 by this name. KG's listing was made in May, 2008 for his home in San Antonio, Texas.

A relative by the name of Raymond was listed as living at the residence of Carmen in San Antonio, Texas, in the May, 2008 listing.

Clear as mud? I have just been wondering about possible connections.

Starr58
07-14-2008, 05:22 PM
Do we have RG, MJ & KG's midle initials and/or birthdates?

LaLaw2000
07-14-2008, 05:23 PM
The Ray living with Carmen is Raymond C, not the same RG.

Thank you, Busylady! I had cross referenced it also, but thought that it was odd that it was a Raymond 'C'. There has been so much deception in this case by KG, RG, and MJ that I thought it was possible that it was RG. They are such liars in their web of deceit!

Thanks again!

Hailiejade77
07-14-2008, 05:40 PM
I truly wish that the COD would be out prior to the 17th.

I also want to say that my heart goes out to all of the Law Enforcement agencies who are involved in Brooke's case. My whole heart truly hurts for the ones who found Brooke's body and to the Medical Examiner.
I thank the Special Investigations Unit in Burlington for discovering the forensic data on the computors.



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

I agree 100%!!! Nicely said Dark Shadows :blowkiss:

miss lisa
07-14-2008, 05:55 PM
does anyone know if RG spoke any other language other than English?

liljim
07-14-2008, 06:01 PM
i agree, but we wont hear anything before the 17th.

its weird how sometimes DNA/tox/COD can be turned around in just a few days, and other times they say 6-8 weeks. i always felt they massaged those numbers as needed on a case by case basis.

ZOOL
07-14-2008, 06:03 PM
I have not found any discussion regarding bebo.com. An advanced google search of that website, using "bmb loves" produces some interesting results.

Someone with access, may find it worthwhile to look deeper.

liljim
07-14-2008, 06:04 PM
re: law enforcement working this case, for some reason as i was working in the yard today i thought about this.

about the fact that some people got up today and sat on the edge of the bed going "yep, gonna go deal with child murder all day". and worse.

couldnt have more respect for the people that take on jobs like that.

Tom'sGirl
07-14-2008, 06:11 PM
Do we have RG, MJ & KG's midle initials and/or birthdates?
I only know Jacques middle name:Stephen & DOB: 3-18-66

miss lisa
07-14-2008, 06:30 PM
I have not found any discussion regarding bebo.com. An advanced google search of that website, using "bmb loves" produces some interesting results.

Someone with access, may find it worthwhile to look deeper.


what is bebo.com?

Liz
07-14-2008, 06:31 PM
Raymond Alfred Gagnon, 11/3/67

Sources:
http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_189231932.html

http://www1.doc.state.vt.us/offender/public.pl/response?lname=gagnon&fname=raymond&action=Search

miss lisa
07-14-2008, 06:33 PM
lightinthedark,
I understand that you know some family members involved. Would you happen to know if RG or MJ spoke any other language besides English? i.e german or italian?

Elley Mae
07-14-2008, 06:36 PM
I did a Texas Public record search on Raymond Gagnon and without a middle intial 13 different addresses,just found that interesting.

lightinthedark
07-14-2008, 06:37 PM
lightinthedark,
I understand that you know some family members involved. Would you happen to know if RG or MJ spoke any other language besides English? i.e german or italian?

I don't know anything about RG. I'm not sure about MJ either, but he may know a little spanish, only because I know he has been to Mexico on business before. Again, that is only a guess.

miss lisa
07-14-2008, 06:39 PM
I don't know anything about RG. I'm not sure about MJ either, but he may know a little spanish, only because I know he has been to Mexico on business before. Again, that is only a guess.

TY very much! You've been very helpful all day!

lightinthedark
07-14-2008, 06:46 PM
TY very much! You been very helpful all day!

:)You're very welcome. This is what happens when you live in a small town, you always know someone that knows something about another.:rolleyes:

Liz
07-14-2008, 06:50 PM
My very dearest Liz,:blowkiss:
Hello my friend!

Jacques and Gagnon are in state facilities, being held as Federal detainees.
You will not find either one in the BOP listings due to the fact that they are secured in the 2 state facilities until they are sentenced and transported to a Federal Holding Facility. Once there, it will be determined what their main facility will be. If they are sententenced to death, they would most likely end up in the Indiana Federal Facility. I say again, most likely.

Due to the fact that the Feds pay the state of Vermont for a certain amount of beds for detainee holding and detainee release, they are on the headcount of the State of Vermont.
Jacques is in the Northwest Correctional Facility in St. Albans. There is a unit that is a lockdown unit. When a detainee enters that facility, they automatically go to that secure unit. These are 1 man cells. They are assigned a caseworker. They are allowed out of their cell for 1 hour recreation in a secured hallway and to use the phone (collect calls). If their behavior has been found acceptable, or if they are not on PC status, after a period of time, they can exercise in a bullpen or watch tv in a secured room.

As far as Gagnon goes, he is being held in the Chittenden Regional Correctional Facility in South Burlington. He is held in the segragation unit and is only allowed out for 1 hour a day. He would do the 1 hour excercise in the hallway where his cell is. They are 2 man cells, but I believe that Gagnon is being held with no cellmate. That is how it was when Brian Rooney was housed in the same unit.

I hope this helps.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows


Hi dark_shadows :)

Thank you soo much your reply, and for all of your help answering our questions regarding this case. It's so wonderful we have you to rely on as an invaluable resource here! You're simply the best, d_s! :blowkiss:

IMBY
07-14-2008, 06:50 PM
I only know Jacques middle name:Stephan & DOB: 3-18-66

Stephen

close_enough
07-14-2008, 06:54 PM
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=BENNETT01

thanks for the link, Starr:)

luvbeaches
07-14-2008, 07:01 PM
re: law enforcement working this case, for some reason as i was working in the yard today i thought about this.

about the fact that some people got up today and sat on the edge of the bed going "yep, gonna go deal with child murder all day". and worse.

couldnt have more respect for the people that take on jobs like that.

That's the truth.

I haven't posted but a couple of times here...I am having a hard time keeping up with all the posts, and what's unfolding in the case. Thanks to all the posters here who've taken the time to post. This is really a disturbing case. Truly sickening. :(

Tom'sGirl
07-14-2008, 07:03 PM
Raymond Alfred Gagnon, 11/3/67

Sources:
http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/local_story_189231932.html

http://www1.doc.state.vt.us/offender/public.pl/response?lname=gagnon&fname=raymond&action=Search
Thanks Liz!

Tom'sGirl
07-14-2008, 07:08 PM
Stephen
My bad, thanks for catching my 'typo' IMBY.

Liz
07-14-2008, 07:15 PM
Thanks Liz!

You're welcome, TG!

And thank you for doing a great job keeping us up to date with photos in the photo thread (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66864)! :)

christine2448
07-14-2008, 07:23 PM
re: law enforcement working this case, for some reason as i was working in the yard today i thought about this.

about the fact that some people got up today and sat on the edge of the bed going "yep, gonna go deal with child murder all day". and worse.

couldnt have more respect for the people that take on jobs like that.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

dark_shadows
07-14-2008, 07:46 PM
I agree. People don't realize how difficult it is on law enforcement. My dad was in law enforcement for 51 years so I can appreciate their position. It's never easy but the pain is amplified when it is a child....

I agree 100%!!! Nicely said Dark Shadows :blowkiss:

Hi dark_shadows :)

Thank you soo much your reply, and for all of your help answering our questions regarding this case. It's so wonderful we have you to rely on as an invaluable resource here! You're simply the best, d_s! :blowkiss:
My dearest Miss lisa, Hailiejade and Liz,:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:
Thank-you so very much. It means alot to me.

So much Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

lightinthedark
07-14-2008, 08:28 PM
I couldn't agree with you all more. It takes a special kind of person to deal what they deal with on an every day basis and still be able to function.
:clap:

pjop
07-14-2008, 10:10 PM
what is bebo.com?

I'm with miss lisa...what's bebo?
Anyone?
My kid's right here...don't wanna look up something bad. :eek:

christine2448
07-14-2008, 10:12 PM
I'm with miss lisa...what's bebo?
Anyone?
My kid's right here...don't wanna look up something bad. :eek:


Neva heard of it...don't blame ya...just looked it up, no pop ups or crazy stuff.....seems OK from "initial contact"....LOL!

Bebo is a social media network where friends share their lives and explore great entertainment.

Leila
07-14-2008, 10:12 PM
I truly wish that the COD would be out prior to the 17th.

I also want to say that my heart goes out to all of the Law Enforcement agencies who are involved in Brooke's case. My whole heart truly hurts for the ones who found Brooke's body and to the Medical Examiner.
I thank the Special Investigations Unit in Burlington for discovering the forensic data on the computors.



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

I agree. I've known many in LE and first responders, and it incredibly difficult for them and especially when it's a child. Some need counseling to deal with it.

pjop
07-14-2008, 10:14 PM
Thanks to both!

Busylady
07-14-2008, 10:47 PM
I could be wrong but in looking at bunches of bebo messages - it appears bmb stands for bebo me back.

CarolinaGal62
07-14-2008, 11:10 PM
Newbie here ......been reading for some time and want to say what a GREAT group of folks you have here !

You all do a marvelous job !

Didn't "bmb" on Brooke's my space page stand for Brooke Marie Bennett loves.....so and so ??????:waitasec:

Busylady
07-14-2008, 11:16 PM
Yes, but someone suggested to search bebo website using bmb love and see all the things it pulled up. So I was saying so much pulled up because bmb stands for bebo me back.

Newbie here ......been reading for some time and want to say what a GREAT group of folks you have here !

You all do a marvelous job !

Didn't "bmb" on Brooke's my space page stand for Brooke Marie Bennett loves.....so and so ??????:waitasec:

CarolinaGal62
07-14-2008, 11:37 PM
Busylady....oops sorry.......did not see that.........

Thanks !!!:)

philamena
07-14-2008, 11:48 PM
FINALLY!!!
July 14,2008
Dubie: Vermont Must Get Tough on Sex Offenders
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8669461&nav=menu183_6_3_8

It's the highest responsibility of government to protect its citizens-- from those that are most vulnerable from those that are most dangerous," said Lt. Gov. Brian Dubie, R-

mercibeaucoup
07-14-2008, 11:53 PM
Many people are complaining about the terrible probation officers and judges responsible for letting MJ off probation early... as if keeping him on probation longer would have changed anything. If AR is telling the truth, MJ was abusing her even while he was on probation for years, and afterwards. IMO, the problem is not in letting MJ off probation early, but in the nature of our probation system. In a system where a man is living with one grown woman and 2 female children 24 hours a day, how can an officer checking in on them once a month or whatever have any idea what is going on?

CarolinaGal62
07-14-2008, 11:59 PM
MJ seemed to have a way of "falling thru the cracks". He thought he was slick, I for one hope and pray he suffers terribly and rots for all he has done !:furious:

philamena
07-15-2008, 12:01 AM
I get what you're saying.
Personally, I don't think the probabation period would have protected anyone.
But his non -release because of his sexual crimes would have prevented AR's abuse and Brookes's death.

philamena
07-15-2008, 12:03 AM
MJ seemed to have a way of "falling thru the cracks". He thought he was slick, I for one hope and pray he suffers terribly and rots for all he has done !:furious:

Roting for eternity suits me.
He is like another Joseph Duncan.:mad:
I hoped I would never hear about anyone like him again. Yet a few years later, we have this pos who's abused who knows how many. :furious:

mercibeaucoup
07-15-2008, 12:05 AM
I get what you're saying.
Personally, I don't think the probabation period would have protected anyone.
But his non -release because of his sexual crimes would have prevented AR's abuse and Brookes's death.

I absolutely agree! I don't understand why we don't keep violent sexual offenders (especially repeat offenders like MJ!) in jail for their entire sentence.

evelyn24
07-15-2008, 12:07 AM
I think BMB stood for her initials. It was most likely written by MJ anyway.
He did try to set it up like she was preparing to meet some myspace online lover.

philamena
07-15-2008, 12:17 AM
I absolutely agree! I don't understand why we don't keep violent sexual offenders (especially repeat offenders like MJ!) in jail for their entire sentence.

Honey, it makes no sence to me.
Funny isn't it that we follow sexual abuse cases and
we know these perp can't be rehabililted.
But judges free them. :mad:

Fairy1
07-15-2008, 12:18 AM
I absolutely agree! I don't understand why we don't keep violent sexual offenders (especially repeat offenders like MJ!) in jail for their entire sentence.

Me neither. I also do not understand what makes the authorities believe that their "rehabilitation" programs will be effective! I honestly do not believe these freaks can be "fixed." Even with what we know about this case already - and there may very well be much more - this was an elaborate scheme to sexually abuse a child. Men (and I use that term loosely) will go to extremes to carry out these crimes. Single mothers need to be more aware and less desparate. And along those lines, since there are SO many single mothers out there, employers need to pay fair wages so these vulnerable women can support their families without risking their well-being and that of their babies. IMO

KR2tonenow
07-15-2008, 12:52 AM
FINALLY!!!
July 14,2008
Dubie: Vermont Must Get Tough on Sex Offenders
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8669461&nav=menu183_6_3_8
:clap:Great NEWS!!! Go Vermont!!

SeriouslySearching
07-15-2008, 01:10 AM
Newbie here ......been reading for some time and want to say what a GREAT group of folks you have here !

You all do a marvelous job !

Didn't "bmb" on Brooke's my space page stand for Brooke Marie Bennett loves.....so and so ??????:waitasec:Welcome to WS, CarolinaGal!

marly56
07-15-2008, 01:16 AM
:clap:Great NEWS!!! Go Vermont!!
sounds great but why are not the laws already in place being used. also why all the red tape? why all the foot dragging? why all the behind closed doors meetings? it seems so clear that if someone harms a child the way these freaks do, they should be locked AWAY from civil society.i have to wonder WHO these lawmakers really are, when they turn their head on some of these cases. what are THEY made of?

MoonFlwr
07-15-2008, 01:26 AM
Newbie here ......been reading for some time and want to say what a GREAT group of folks you have here !

You all do a marvelous job !

Didn't "bmb" on Brooke's my space page stand for Brooke Marie Bennett loves.....so and so ??????:waitasec:

:Welcome-12-june:

CarolinaGal! :)

From a recent newbie!

Fairy1
07-15-2008, 01:32 AM
sounds great but why are not the laws already in place being used. also why all the red tape? why all the foot dragging? why all the behind closed doors meetings? it seems so clear that if someone harms a child the way these freaks do, they should be locked AWAY from civil society.i have to wonder WHO these lawmakers really are, when they turn their head on some of these cases. what are THEY made of?

Yes Ma'am. ITA. What is it going to take to lock these freaks up FOREVER?!?!?!? If you spend any time on these boards, you know this is a multi-faceted issue. Yes - these freaks cannot be fixed, but the women and children they prey on are often unnecessarily vulnerable - for many reasons. The entire issue needs to be addressed on many levels - IMO. If I had been Denise or Cassandra - I would NEVER, EVER, EVER, had placed my babies - male or female - in such a position. I don't want to kick anyone when they're down, but honestly, how much free, unsupervised time did MJ have with AR???? That burden falls on the shoulders of only one person - the ONE who should have been protecting her children. IMHO.

marly56
07-15-2008, 01:43 AM
Me neither. I also do not understand what makes the authorities believe that their "rehabilitation" programs will be effective! I honestly do not believe these freaks can be "fixed." Even with what we know about this case already - and there may very well be much more - this was an elaborate scheme to sexually abuse a child. Men (and I use that term loosely) will go to extremes to carry out these crimes. Single mothers need to be more aware and less desparate. And along those lines, since there are SO many single mothers out there, employers need to pay fair wages so these vulnerable women can support their families without risking their well-being and that of their babies. IMO
i was molested by my uncle when i was 4 years old [touched my private once] i got off the couch and ran into the kitchen where my mother was, and i stayed near her . i did not tell her about it untill i was almost 30 years old. i told her about this because i had noticed my uncle was always dating women with young daughters. i was worried about what he might be doing. i had burried that incident of him touching me at 4 years old for so long. then one night me and my mother were looking over some of her family photos and there he was sitting on a couch with a girlfriend of his and on his lap was a beautiful young girl no more than 4 or 5 yrs old.this awful feeling came over me and it triggered my memory of what he did to me [only once]. as we looked further at my mothers photos, i saw a pattern . so many women he had taken photographs with and there was always either 1 or 2 litlle girls included either on his lap or sitting between his legs.my uncle was a very handsome man at 6 ft ,lean body big brown eyes,full head of hair that he wore in a pompadour. he was always grooming himself and flexing his muscles,tight pants rolled sleeves ...pour on the aftershave and walk with a very deliberate stride...and he spoke very softly.when my memory triggered i was rooted to the spot...i felt i had to do something.so i found out the address of his current girlfriend, and i sent her a letter in detail. she did take heed and left him.. i did this with 2 other girlfriends of his also.

Fairy1
07-15-2008, 01:55 AM
i was molested by my uncle when i was 4 years old [touched my private once] i got off the couch and ran into the kitchen where my mother was, and i stayed near her . i did not tell her about it untill i was almost 30 years old. i told her about this because i had noticed my uncle was always dating women with young daughters. i was worried about what he might be doing. i had burried that incident of him touching me at 4 years old for so long. then one night me and my mother were looking over some of her family photos and there he was sitting on a couch with a girlfriend of his and on his lap was a beautiful young girl no more than 4 or 5 yrs old.this awful feeling came over me and it triggered my memory of what he did to me [only once]. as we looked further at my mothers photos, i saw a pattern . so many women he had taken photographs with and there was always either 1 or 2 litlle girls included either on his lap or sitting between his legs.my uncle was a very handsome man at 6 ft ,lean body big brown eyes,full head of hair that he wore in a pompadour. he was always grooming himself and flexing his muscles,tight pants rolled sleeves ...pour on the aftershave and walk with a very deliberate stride...and he spoke very softly.when my memory triggered i was rooted to the spot...i felt i had to do something.so i found out the address of his current girlfriend, and i sent her a letter in detail. she did take heed and left him.. i did this with 2 other girlfriends of his also.

Good for you - at least you did something!!!! These guys are slick and they give the truly good guys in the world a bad name. They know how to get what they want and a 4-year-old is no match for them. I applaud you for taking a stance....:blowkiss:

MoonFlwr
07-15-2008, 02:22 AM
i was molested by my uncle when i was 4 years old [touched my private once] i got off the couch and ran into the kitchen where my mother was, and i stayed near her . i did not tell her about it untill i was almost 30 years old. i told her about this because i had noticed my uncle was always dating women with young daughters. i was worried about what he might be doing. i had burried that incident of him touching me at 4 years old for so long. then one night me and my mother were looking over some of her family photos and there he was sitting on a couch with a girlfriend of his and on his lap was a beautiful young girl no more than 4 or 5 yrs old.this awful feeling came over me and it triggered my memory of what he did to me [only once]. as we looked further at my mothers photos, i saw a pattern . so many women he had taken photographs with and there was always either 1 or 2 litlle girls included either on his lap or sitting between his legs.my uncle was a very handsome man at 6 ft ,lean body big brown eyes,full head of hair that he wore in a pompadour. he was always grooming himself and flexing his muscles,tight pants rolled sleeves ...pour on the aftershave and walk with a very deliberate stride...and he spoke very softly.when my memory triggered i was rooted to the spot...i felt i had to do something.so i found out the address of his current girlfriend, and i sent her a letter in detail. she did take heed and left him.. i did this with 2 other girlfriends of his also.

Wow! Thanks for sharing your story, marly. :rose:

So glad you took action when your memory was jogged! :heart:

Lola
07-15-2008, 04:57 AM
BTW, bebo is another social networking site. Bebo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebo), but the initials scenario makes more sense to me.

eris
07-15-2008, 05:56 AM
Thank you, Busylady! I had cross referenced it also, but thought that it was odd that it was a Raymond 'C'. There has been so much deception in this case by KG, RG, and MJ that I thought it was possible that it was RG. They are such liars in their web of deceit!

Thanks again!


Try Veromi.Net for Raymond Cagnon

5. CAGNON, RAYMOND A (Age 40) (http://www.veromi.net/order.asp?1=RAYMOND;;A;;CAGNON;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;37 0399459;;&2=name&3=people&4=9&5=raymond;;;;cagnon;;;;;;;;;;;;&rc=10)
Associated names:
GAGNON, RAYMOND
Available(2)AvailableCARIBOU, MEPossible Relatives:
GAGNON, DELORIS M (Age 70) (http://www.veromi.net/order.asp?1=DELORIS;;M;;GAGNON;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;27 831719&2=name&3=people&4=9&5=raymond;;;;cagnon;;;;;;;;;;;;&rc=10&rel=Y)

eris
07-15-2008, 05:59 AM
The Ray living with Carmen is Raymond C, not the same RG.

hi Busylady

Do you have Raymond C's last name?

Starr58
07-15-2008, 08:47 AM
Offenders Required to Register: The Sex Offender Registry Law applies to persons convicted of the following crimes if the person was:
• convicted in Vermont on or after July 1, 1996
• convicted in Vermont or another state PRIOR to July 1, 1996, confined under the custody of the Commissioner of Corrections, and released from confinement in Vermont on or after July 1, 1996
• convicted in Vermont or another state PRIOR to July 1, 1996, and was being supervised in the community in Vermont by the Commissioner of Corrections on July 1, 1996
• convicted or released from confinement in another state on or after July 1, 1986 and who established residence in this state on or after July 1, 1996. An individual is considered to have established a residence in Vermont if they remain in the state for more than 10 consecutive days

A non-resident sex offender who moves to Vermont for full or part time employment or to attend school or college on a full or part-time basis must also register.

The crimes for which offenders must register include:
• Sexual assault
• Aggravated sexual assault
• Lewd and lascivious conduct
• Sexual activity by a caregiver

In addition, the Sex Offender Registry Law applies to persons convicted of any of the following offenses against a victim who is a minor:
• Any offense listed above
• Kidnapping
• Lewd and lascivious conduct with a child
• Sexual exploitation of children
• Procurement or solicitation for prostitution

Conduct which is criminal only because of the age of the victim shall not be considered an offense for purposes of the registry if the perpetrator is under the age of 18
Information Collected: Name; date of birth; general physical description; current address; Social Security number; fingerprints; current photograph; current employment; conviction record, including offense, date of conviction, sentence and any conditions of release or probation.
Administrating Agency: State Department of Public Safety, Department of Corrections.
Timeframe for Registration: Effective September 1, 2001, Vermont adopted Lifetime Registration for Recidivist, Sexual Assault, and Aggravated Sexual Assault. Any registerable offense. An offender must also register if they are attending school, employed or carrying on a vocation in Vermont.

Within 10 days after establishing residence in this state, if convicted in another state, annually within 10 days after each anniversary of the person's date of release, or within 10 days after the anniversary of the person's date of establishment of residence in Vermont if convicted elsewhere, except, if a person is determined to be a sexually violent predator, that person shall report to the department every 90 days; and within three days after any change of address.
Applies to Out of State Offenders: Yes
Duration of Requirement: Offenders must comply with the above requirements for 10 years from the date they are discharged from the supervision of the Vermont Department of Corrections. If they have been designated a Sexually Violent Predator by the court, they must comply with the above requirements until the court orders termination of the designation. Verification of Address: At least once a year they will receive a form letter from VCIC verifying their current address. They must complete the form and return it to VCIC within 10 days.
Penalties for Non-Compliance: Failure to comply with any of the requirements indicated above is grounds for a warrant to be issued for the registrant's arrest. If a registrant is convicted of failing to comply with the law they could be imprisoned for not more than two years and/or fined not more than $1,000. A second or subsequent offense could result in a sentence to imprisonment of no more than three years and/or a fine of not more than $5,000.
Access to Information: Not all information in the registry is available to the public. The public may contact local law enforcement, the registry or search online. Specific information is available to law enforcement only.
Confidentiality Provision: Any person who uses information in this registry to injure, harass, or commit a criminal offense against any person included in the registry or any other person is subject to criminal prosecution.”
Number Registered: 2,439 as of 7/10/07
Percent Compliance: 98%
Internet Access: http://www.dps.state.vt.us/cjs/s_registry.htm

Starr58
07-15-2008, 08:49 AM
Sex Offenders convicted prior to 1996 are not registered in Vermont. YIKES!!!:rolleyes:

Vermont Sex Offender Registry does not provide last known address!!! DOUBLE YIKES!!!!:furious:

ZOOL
07-15-2008, 08:50 AM
I have not found any discussion regarding bebo.com. An advanced google search of that website, using "bmb loves" produces some interesting results.

Someone with access, may find it worthwhile to look deeper.

bebo.com is a social networking website upon which there are several interesting "hits" for the expression bmb loves u. That in itself is not overly concerning --although the capitalization, spelling, and association of words is fairly indigenous to Brooke. What is more concerning is that Brooke used "SaVaNnAh" [IIRC] in a Myspace location, and there are several interesting uses of "capitalization, spelling, and association" on the bebo.com location:

The first comes from someone named <REDACTED>

[1] <REDACTED>_ftw>bmb loves u lik crazyyyyy & miss u sooooooo much aven seen ya in ages :( :( :( :( x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x ....
upload.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=19907276

The second uses the lower caps for bmb loves

[2] Bernie.C <-BuBBle-x>Course darlin i always hav a gd we nyt haha god im wel dyin ni lyk feel so tird lyk haha wat ya doin d nyt en lv jus chilin in supose haha sur bmb loves ...
.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=250851721 -

The third uses the combination of upper-lower caps

[3] Ox.Créna.Ox. <xxcrenaxx>bmb Loves ya SaRaH xX. 2 week ago. Gagagagagaga wdc magee hows it hangin any gd?? its powerful ovr here its boilin aswell fs bit too warm i got sun stroke ...
.bebo2nd.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=17773335


Finally, if you do an advanced google search solely on the bebo.com website for the expression bmb loves u you get four hits:

[1] SeXy_MuLf <jennifermcparland>alright luv never even of these,,so hows life lol bmb loves u paula xXxX have sum red gear !!!!! 14 weeks ago. Isobel well hoe fs u ever on this hing lol ...
.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4439080786 -

[2] Emma Beck <teenangelxxuk>... watever ur wearin on ya in ur house ya can do ur make up anol down here.ya in ur mums or ur own house tomorro wen i pick ya up??bmb loves u long time! ...
.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=1479606132 -

[3] Josh Long <Baldmyster>hiya darlin wuu2.. hows u? hu u lovin ? wel bmb .. loves u.. n share bk x. 15 hour ago via Mobile · Mizz-Chelsea-O'Connor hello hunni...x wuu2..x ...
.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4773663286 -

[4] Maria Monaghan <mariaginger>here so i hear ur goin ayia napa can i cum????????????????? well get bk 2 me asap so i can start packin lol bmb loves u xx. 3 week ago ...
.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=14509244 -

I asked about bebo.com merely because I was interested to see if anyone here had any knowledge of bebo and could perhaps persue this line further.

I will add "this is probably nonsense" so no one needs to point that out. :blowkiss:

I believe that the expression bebo me back would not be consistent with the following two words: loves u

IMBY
07-15-2008, 10:32 AM
All of those profiles appear to be in UK/Ireland

Lola
07-15-2008, 10:33 AM
IIRC Michael Birch (the guy that founded bebo) is a Brit.

texas48
07-15-2008, 10:41 AM
A good welcome to you Carolina. :blowkiss:

Elley Mae
07-15-2008, 10:58 AM
I just spent some time looking back over previous post and news site,etc in reference to the affidavit, if we are to believe that Rauel is really MJ talking to AR then why would he have asked her to get (collection) from Juv2 and the second source(blacked out).I'm confused, or was this his way of convincing her even more that Rauel existed,or to see if she was following orders be Rauel.

Busylady
07-15-2008, 11:08 AM
Its Raymond C Gagnon - which is not in anyway connected in my opinion. Just another Raymond that lives in Texas.

hi Busylady

Do you have Raymond C's last name?

lightinthedark
07-15-2008, 11:10 AM
I just spent some time looking back over previous post and news site,etc in reference to the affidavit, if we are to believe that Rauel is really MJ talking to AR then why would he have asked her to get (collection) from Juv2 and the second source(blacked out).I'm confused, or was this his way of convincing her even more that Rauel existed,or to see if she was following orders be Rauel.

The way it was worded, made me believe that Rauel was telling AR to get a collection from Juv2 and to "get some" from (blacked out)... "get some" meaning sex. That's how I took it, I could be wrong. JMO.

believe09
07-15-2008, 11:27 AM
i was molested by my uncle when i was 4 years old [touched my private once] i got off the couch and ran into the kitchen where my mother was, and i stayed near her . i did not tell her about it untill i was almost 30 years old. i told her about this because i had noticed my uncle was always dating women with young daughters. i was worried about what he might be doing. i had burried that incident of him touching me at 4 years old for so long. then one night me and my mother were looking over some of her family photos and there he was sitting on a couch with a girlfriend of his and on his lap was a beautiful young girl no more than 4 or 5 yrs old.this awful feeling came over me and it triggered my memory of what he did to me [only once]. as we looked further at my mothers photos, i saw a pattern . so many women he had taken photographs with and there was always either 1 or 2 litlle girls included either on his lap or sitting between his legs.my uncle was a very handsome man at 6 ft ,lean body big brown eyes,full head of hair that he wore in a pompadour. he was always grooming himself and flexing his muscles,tight pants rolled sleeves ...pour on the aftershave and walk with a very deliberate stride...and he spoke very softly.when my memory triggered i was rooted to the spot...i felt i had to do something.so i found out the address of his current girlfriend, and i sent her a letter in detail. she did take heed and left him.. i did this with 2 other girlfriends of his also.

You are very brave. Has your uncle indicated to anyone in your family that your letter are taking place?

texas48
07-15-2008, 12:08 PM
The way it was worded, made me believe that Rauel was telling AR to get a collection from Juv2 and to "get some" from (blacked out)... "get some" meaning sex. That's how I took it, I could be wrong. JMO.
Was it ever comfirmed by LE that Raul did not exsist and that these "members" were made up by MJ?

lightinthedark
07-15-2008, 12:17 PM
Was it ever comfirmed by LE that Raul did not exsist and that these "members" were made up by MJ?

LE stated that Raul's email was only accessed from MJ's home and work. And I think they mentioned from only his computers?? Anyone remember? Also, MJ told LE that the Chevy_21 (known as "E") email address was his.

Medea
07-15-2008, 12:25 PM
LE stated that Raul's email was only accessed from MJ's home and work. And I think they mentioned from only his computers?? Anyone remember? Also, MJ told LE that the Chevy_21 (known as "E") email address was his.

That's what I remember..all emails sent from Jacques computers...but I don't remember him admitting that Chevy was his email address.

SailorMoon
07-15-2008, 12:39 PM
Morning all. Catching up after being sick for a couple of days. Has anything new come out? Official COD, anyone "officially" charged with murder - etc.?? Thanks.

Hailiejade77
07-15-2008, 12:50 PM
Morning all. Catching up after being sick for a couple of days. Has anything new come out? Official COD, anyone "officially" charged with murder - etc.?? Thanks.

nothing yet SailorMoon. I have a feeling that we aren't going to get any more new information for quite some time. I think they are going to keep everything to themselves for awhile.

lightinthedark
07-15-2008, 12:59 PM
That's what I remember..all emails sent from Jacques computers...but I don't remember him admitting that Chevy was his email address.

Him admitting to the Chevy email address is in the affidavit with all of the emails.

LI_Mom
07-15-2008, 12:59 PM
Morning all. Catching up after being sick for a couple of days. Has anything new come out? Official COD, anyone "officially" charged with murder - etc.?? Thanks.

Nothing at all new.


I think LE will announce her COD when the results are in & announce any new charges they file & that's about all.

I doubt the FBI cares that the public is interested in following any new developments. Unless it might serve to help them find missing info they need, the FBI's ONLY concern is bringing this case to trial & in pursuing the CP trail left by MJ & RG.

marly56
07-15-2008, 01:09 PM
You are very brave. Has your uncle indicated to anyone in your family that your letter are taking place?
i wrote the letters anonymously. a great way to get ones point across without the burden.

SailorMoon
07-15-2008, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the replies. So I assume then that AR is still with Denise? ((((scratching head hard on that one))))

Starr58
07-15-2008, 02:00 PM
I have to admit that I find it frustrating and insulting to Brooke that there has been no known action taken on this case other than searching a dump for a safe and determining this was a homicide.

My fear is that they cannot prove or determine who actually commited the homicide. Could of been numerous or many people. I know it appears to have been MJ but it needs to be proven and if it could be proven that he was the one regardless of the cause it would seem he would have been charged by now. No?

maybe I am being too impatient...

Medea
07-15-2008, 02:08 PM
I have to admit that I find it frustrating and insulting to Brooke that there has been no known action taken on this case other than searching a dump for a safe and determining this was a homicide.

My fear is that they cannot prove or determine who actually commited the homicide. Could of been numerous or many people. I know it appears to have been MJ but it needs to be proven and if it could be proven that he was the one regardless of the cause it would seem he would have been charged by now. No?

maybe I am being too impatient...

I'd say right now there is enough evidence to prove Jacques committed the murder based only on what is known publicly: detailed plan to abduct and rape her, testimony placing Brooke last alive in his home, planting false evidence, history of sex crimes. I suspect they already also have the cause of death as well as statements from Juvenile 2, more statements from AR and possibly more statements from Gagnon. And if he had help, the other accomplices would be likewise charged with murder whether they actively participated or not...under the joint venture rule the state doesn't even have to know who committed the murder to get a conviction, but of course it helps.

I'd also say that the FBI investigation spanning at least 3 states is evidence that they are leaving no stone unturned in getting evidence against Jacques and Gagnon.

What's the rush? Jacques isn't going anywhere and neither is Gagnon. My feeling is they are going to wait until they have ALL the charges ready to go, rather than doing it piecemeal.

Starr58
07-15-2008, 02:37 PM
Did they ever find MJ’s computer hard drive to his desktop? I remember he lied and said it was being repaired. Seems impossible that it would be in the missing safe. hmmmmm wonder ???:rolleyes:

LI_Mom
07-15-2008, 02:54 PM
I'd say right now there is enough evidence to prove Jacques committed the murder based only on what is known publicly: detailed plan to abduct and rape her, testimony placing Brooke last alive in his home, planting false evidence, history of sex crimes. I suspect they already also have the cause of death as well as statements from Juvenile 2, more statements from AR and possibly more statements from Gagnon. And if he had help, the other accomplices would be likewise charged with murder whether they actively participated or not...under the joint venture rule the state doesn't even have to know who committed the murder to get a conviction, but of course it helps.

I'd also say that the FBI investigation spanning at least 3 states is evidence that they are leaving no stone unturned in getting evidence against Jacques and Gagnon.

What's the rush? Jacques isn't going anywhere and neither is Gagnon. My feeling is they are going to wait until they have ALL the charges ready to go, rather than doing it piecemeal.

ITA!!



It's the defendants that usually benefit from a 'speedy trial.' Sometimes it's a smart tactic to force them to try you fast BEFORE they can gather all the evidence they need.

Once they formally announce charges.... the clock starts ticking.

LI_Mom
07-15-2008, 02:58 PM
Did they ever find MJ’s computer hard drive to his desktop? I remember he lied and said it was being repaired. Seems impossible that it would be in the missing safe. hmmmmm wonder ???:rolleyes:

They checked Best Buy & learned it was never taken there.

If it ever existed, good luck finding it. He could have buried it somewhere, mailed it somewhere, dumped it somewhere.


For the life of me, I don't understand why these freaks download CP onto their actual computers... it makes no sense.

It makes much more sense that they'd download stuff ONLY onto removable drives so there's no trace on their computers & it's easier to hide.

texas48
07-15-2008, 03:00 PM
I have to admit that I find it frustrating and insulting to Brooke that there has been no known action taken on this case other than searching a dump for a safe and determining this was a homicide.

My fear is that they cannot prove or determine who actually commited the homicide. Could of been numerous or many people. I know it appears to have been MJ but it needs to be proven and if it could be proven that he was the one regardless of the cause it would seem he would have been charged by now. No?

maybe I am being too impatient...We are all impatient but All has to understand that LE/FBI is working on this case 24/7. Just because we don't see headlines of information does not mean they are not doing their job. The authorities are doing their job. There is alot to this case..maybe more than WE will ever know and maybe more than we want to know. FBI will keep most info close to their chest but THEY are doing their job. TRUST !!!!!

texas48
07-15-2008, 03:06 PM
Did anyone watch the O'Reilly Factor last night? What a great show. He vows not to let up on Vt. or the Gov. Was a great interview. You Go O'Reilly!:woohoo:

lightinthedark
07-15-2008, 03:20 PM
We are all impatient but All has to understand that LE/FBI is working on this case 24/7. Just because we don't see headlines of information does not mean they are not doing their job. The authorities are doing their job. There is alot to this case..maybe more than WE will ever know and maybe more than we want to know. FBI will keep most info close to their chest but THEY are doing their job. TRUST !!!!!

I don't believe anyone is doubting that LE/FBI is doing their job and working on this 24/7.

Rhett
07-15-2008, 03:33 PM
Well has anyone heard a word out of MJ's wifes mouth? Is she supporting him? Also Brooke's mother, I have only heard her speak maybe twice. Are they supporting this jerk?

Hailiejade77
07-15-2008, 03:46 PM
Well has anyone heard a word out of MJ's wifes mouth? Is she supporting him? Also Brooke's mother, I have only heard her speak maybe twice. Are they supporting this jerk?

I can't remember who it was on here, but they know someone that is a family friend of the Jacques and they said that Denise is NOT supporting MJ at all. It is somewhere on this forum or the thread before it. I just don't have the time to find it,.. lol :crazy:

christine2448
07-15-2008, 03:55 PM
I can't remember who it was on here, but they know someone that is a family friend of the Jacques and they said that Denise is NOT supporting MJ at all. It is somewhere on this forum or the thread before it. I just don't have the time to find it,.. lol :crazy:

It was lightinthedark

lightinthedark (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=32518) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 72


Quote:
Originally Posted by miss lisa http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2379396#post2379396)
I would like to know which side she is standing on at the moment. AR's or MJ's....

I heard from a friend of the family that Denise is NOT on mj's side at all.

madge
07-15-2008, 04:10 PM
I am really surprised that there is not any news on this case. NG usually covers these and she hasn't had anything on since the arrests.

First post here BTW. Thanks moderators and forum owners.

lightinthedark
07-15-2008, 04:20 PM
I can't remember who it was on here, but they know someone that is a family friend of the Jacques and they said that Denise is NOT supporting MJ at all. It is somewhere on this forum or the thread before it. I just don't have the time to find it,.. lol :crazy:

That was me. I haven't heard anything about Cassandra being supportive of him, I can't imagine that she is. Then again, this case has been freakishly twisted from the get go, so who knows.

lightinthedark
07-15-2008, 04:21 PM
I am really surprised that there is not any news on this case. NG usually covers these and she hasn't had anything on since the arrests.

First post here BTW. Thanks moderators and forum owners.

Welcome Madge :wave:

Lola
07-15-2008, 04:23 PM
No comments from anyone in the family is the best for the Prosecutor at this point. They need to get as much information and evidence as possible, but it does not need to be in the public domain.

dark_shadows
07-15-2008, 04:48 PM
Just to let people know the court times for Gagnon and Jacques.

Thursday at 2pm for Gagnon and thursday 3pm for Jacques.
WPTZ will be broadcasting on their Livestream video outside of the courthouse.
The link;

http://www.wptz.com/video/11306790/index.html


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

calidreamin
07-15-2008, 04:50 PM
Just to let people know the court times for Gagnon and Jacques.

Thursday at 2pm for Gagnon and thursday 3pm for Jacques.
WPTZ will be broadcasting on their Livestream video outside of the courthouse.
The link;

http://www.wptz.com/video/11306790/index.html


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Thank you for the info d s you are a sweetheart!:blowkiss::blowkiss:

lightinthedark
07-15-2008, 04:55 PM
Thanks for the link Dark_Shadows :)



Just to let people know the court times for Gagnon and Jacques.

Thursday at 2pm for Gagnon and thursday 3pm for Jacques.
WPTZ will be broadcasting on their Livestream video outside of the courthouse.
The link;

http://www.wptz.com/video/11306790/index.html


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

dark_shadows
07-15-2008, 05:00 PM
Dearest Calidreamin and Lightinthedark,:blowkiss:
You are both so very welcome.

I thought that ones here would like to watch the updates live and as it happens.
I also posted it on the Federal charges discussion thread for all to discuss the outcome of the court appearances.


Love and Respect for the both of you,
dark_shadows

miss lisa
07-15-2008, 05:08 PM
Just to let people know the court times for Gagnon and Jacques.

Thursday at 2pm for Gagnon and thursday 3pm for Jacques.
WPTZ will be broadcasting on their Livestream video outside of the courthouse.
The link;

http://www.wptz.com/video/11306790/index.html


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Do you know if there will be any form of cameras allowed in the courtroom for Gagon?

miss lisa
07-15-2008, 05:12 PM
That was me. I haven't heard anything about Cassandra being supportive of him, I can't imagine that she is. Then again, this case has been freakishly twisted from the get go, so who knows.

lightinthedarK,:blowkiss:
Has your source said how AR's little sister is handling the situation? Does she know that her daddy is in jail & why?:confused:

Elley Mae
07-15-2008, 05:22 PM
Just to let people know the court times for Gagnon and Jacques.

Thursday at 2pm for Gagnon and thursday 3pm for Jacques.
WPTZ will be broadcasting on their Livestream video outside of the courthouse.
The link;

http://www.wptz.com/video/11306790/index.html


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows
Thanks for the information D_S you are wonderful

lightinthedark
07-15-2008, 05:28 PM
lightinthedarK,:blowkiss:
Has your source said how AR's little sister is handling the situation? Does she know that her daddy is in jail & why?:confused:

Good question.
No, my source has not mentioned anything about any of the children. My source hasn't revealed much aside from DJ not being supportive of MJ.
Wish I had more info.

close_enough
07-15-2008, 06:09 PM
Just to let people know the court times for Gagnon and Jacques.

Thursday at 2pm for Gagnon and thursday 3pm for Jacques.
WPTZ will be broadcasting on their Livestream video outside of the courthouse.
The link;

http://www.wptz.com/video/11306790/index.html


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

bumping this up....hope someone will keep bumping this thru Thursday, or i'll forget....

dark_shadows
07-15-2008, 06:10 PM
Do you know if there will be any form of cameras allowed in the courtroom for Gagon?
Dearest Miss lisa,:blowkiss:
Last I knew, no cameras are allowed in the courtroom, that is why WPTZ will be outside. The Feds are very strict about this.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Thanks for the information D_S you are wonderful

My dearest Elley Mae,:blowkiss:
All of my Love to you my dear.


Yours truly,
dark_shadows

dark_shadows
07-15-2008, 06:12 PM
bumping this up....hope someone will keep bumping this thru Thursday, or i'll forget....
My dear sweet Close,:blowkiss:
You are simply the best.

When I get out of work, I will go to the thread link below to find out what happened.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66884


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

miss lisa
07-15-2008, 06:26 PM
Dearest Miss lisa,:blowkiss:
Last I knew, no cameras are allowed in the courtroom, that is why WPTZ will be outside. The Feds are very strict about this.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows



My dearest Elley Mae,:blowkiss:
All of my Love to you my dear.


Yours truly,
dark_shadows

dark :blowkiss:
I know nothing about the courthouse there, will they be taking RG & MJ into the courthouse some back way or a covered entrance for patrol cars? OR at an entrance where the news cameras can get a clear shot????

dark_shadows
07-15-2008, 06:35 PM
dark :blowkiss:
I know nothing about the courthouse there, will they be taking RG & MJ into the courthouse some back way or a covered entrance for patrol cars? OR at an entrance where the news cameras can get a clear shot????
Dearest Miss lisa,:blowkiss:
The U.S. Marshals will escort them to the building. The transport vehicles have tinted glass, so that photos could not be taken upon their arrival to the courthouse. They are not transported by Vermont DOC, they are transported my the U.S. Marshal Service.
I never escorted inmates to the Federal Courthouse, we did not do that. In other courthouses, there was always a garage that we went into out of public eye.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Mohabi
07-15-2008, 06:54 PM
sounds great but why are not the laws already in place being used. also why all the red tape? why all the foot dragging? why all the behind closed doors meetings? it seems so clear that if someone harms a child the way these freaks do, they should be locked AWAY from civil society.i have to wonder WHO these lawmakers really are, when they turn their head on some of these cases. what are THEY made of?

I hate to say this but all of this would be unnecessary if they'd get the DP after the FIRST time. They can't be fixed anyway and paying for their support for 25 years is money we could all spend on something a lot more worthwhile.

christine2448
07-15-2008, 06:58 PM
enuff w/the mushies.....dearest this and kisses that.....yuck. :blowkiss: ;) :sick:

philamena
07-15-2008, 07:04 PM
I am really surprised that there is not any news on this case. NG usually covers these and she hasn't had anything on since the arrests.

First post here BTW. Thanks moderators and forum owners.


You're right madge. I haven't heard a word about Brooke's murder in a few days.
BTW-Welcome to WS.

dark_shadows
07-15-2008, 07:08 PM
enuff w/the mushies.....dearest this and kisses that.....yuck. :blowkiss: ;) :sick:
That is the way I have posted since I have been here.

I will not do it any longer. I did not know that you felt this way.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with my writing style.

My heart truly hurt when I read that post.

Jaded
07-15-2008, 07:09 PM
i was molested by my uncle when i was 4 years old [touched my private once] i got off the couch and ran into the kitchen where my mother was, and i stayed near her . i did not tell her about it untill i was almost 30 years old. i told her about this because i had noticed my uncle was always dating women with young daughters. i was worried about what he might be doing. i had burried that incident of him touching me at 4 years old for so long. then one night me and my mother were looking over some of her family photos and there he was sitting on a couch with a girlfriend of his and on his lap was a beautiful young girl no more than 4 or 5 yrs old.this awful feeling came over me and it triggered my memory of what he did to me [only once]. as we looked further at my mothers photos, i saw a pattern . so many women he had taken photographs with and there was always either 1 or 2 litlle girls included either on his lap or sitting between his legs.my uncle was a very handsome man at 6 ft ,lean body big brown eyes,full head of hair that he wore in a pompadour. he was always grooming himself and flexing his muscles,tight pants rolled sleeves ...pour on the aftershave and walk with a very deliberate stride...and he spoke very softly.when my memory triggered i was rooted to the spot...i felt i had to do something.so i found out the address of his current girlfriend, and i sent her a letter in detail. she did take heed and left him.. i did this with 2 other girlfriends of his also.
Marly, thank you for sharing that. I think it is great that you sent letters to his girlfriends.

I haven't been online for a few days and am trying to catch up. LOTS of reading to do!

KatK
07-15-2008, 07:37 PM
enuff w/the mushies.....dearest this and kisses that.....yuck. :blowkiss: ;) :sick:

:blowkiss:

I dunno, I think maybe the world could use more tender hearts. It is sad, if you really think about it, that it is uncommon enough for people to be affectionate in their day to day interactions, that it inspires people to recoil and have mixed/negative reactions. The world has become more hardboiled. It's *SAD*! :twocents::twocents:

christine2448
07-15-2008, 07:40 PM
That is the way I have posted since I have been here.

I will not do it any longer. I did not know that you felt this way.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with my writing style.

My heart truly hurt when I read that post.

Now you made me CRY! OMG! I was TOTALLY JOKING! You know better! Smootchies Boochies, kiss, kiss, hug, hugs! :blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss: :blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss: We have joked about this many times in chat and I always pull out the trout when people get mushy! Oy Vey! Much love and respect for you!

miss_vegemite
07-15-2008, 07:42 PM
That is the way I have posted since I have been here.

I will not do it any longer. I did not know that you felt this way.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with my writing style.

My heart truly hurt when I read that post.

Well I love the respect that you show to fellow posters DS. I really hope you don't change:blowkiss:

Jeana (DP)
07-15-2008, 07:44 PM
That is the way I have posted since I have been here.

I will not do it any longer. I did not know that you felt this way.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with my writing style.

My heart truly hurt when I read that post.

Darlin, don't you DARE change one thing about yourself or the way you post. That was completely out of line and uncalled for. It may have been an attempt at humor, but I personally didn't think it was funny. You're much loved here and your posts have always been respectful and welcomed.

christine2448
07-15-2008, 07:46 PM
Darlin, don't you DARE change one thing about yourself or the way you post. That was completely out of line and uncalled for. It may have been an attempt at humor, but I personally didn't think it was funny. You're much loved here and your posts have always been respectful and welcomed.


:razz:don't stir the pot.....if you knew me at all, you'd know that is a joke w/me and many in chat. I meant nothing and don't appreciate you 'calling me out' when I already feel like crap for hurting the feelings of ona my favorite posters here :razz:

I was trying to lighten up for a sec, in the lull.... and I apologize again. Jeesh.

Tricia
07-15-2008, 07:59 PM
When someone unintentionally hurts someones feelings and that person apologizes then it should be all over.

We all know and love Christine. We know she wouldn't hurt a fly let alone any poster here on purpose.

When I read what she wrote I laughed because I know Christine.

Christine has apologized. If someone has a problem with that for some reason please contact me. Otherwise, carry on.

Tricia

Starr58
07-15-2008, 08:00 PM
:razz:don't stir the pot.....if you knew me at all, you'd know that is a joke w/me and many in chat. I meant nothing and don't appreciate you 'calling me out' when I already feel like crap for hurting the feelings of ona my favorite posters here :razz:

I was trying to lighten up for a sec, in the lull.... and I apologize again. Jeesh.


*spank spank* Naughty naughty.....:bang:

Fairy1
07-15-2008, 08:20 PM
Awww c'mon - we all know that Christine didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings! I, for one, appreciate her sense of humor just as much as I appreciate Dark Shadow's sweetness. We need them both! And not for nothing, but Christine has been pretty liberal with the hugs lately herself!

:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss: :blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

philamena
07-15-2008, 08:35 PM
dark_shadows,
(Come back after you eat dinner dear friend. )
Question, and I apologize if I somehow missed this if it was asked before :blush:, will cameras be allowed in the courtroom for the upcoming hearings?

Do you know if the 2 creeps are in solitary confinement?

texas48
07-15-2008, 08:41 PM
enuff w/the mushies.....dearest this and kisses that.....yuck. :blowkiss: ;) :sick:Thanks christine..

texas48
07-15-2008, 08:44 PM
You're right madge. I haven't heard a word about Brooke's murder in a few days.
BTW-Welcome to WS.
It has been on the O'Reilly Factor everynight. Last night they were hounding the Governor last night. O'Reilly says they will continue to blast Vt. lawmakers.

Spazkat9696
07-15-2008, 08:51 PM
That is the way I have posted since I have been here.

I will not do it any longer. I did not know that you felt this way.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with my writing style.

My heart truly hurt when I read that post.


DS please come back your knowledge of VT and the legal system there is priceless. I love you just the way you are :blowkiss:

texas48
07-15-2008, 08:51 PM
:razz:don't stir the pot.....if you knew me at all, you'd know that is a joke w/me and many in chat. I meant nothing and don't appreciate you 'calling me out' when I already feel like crap for hurting the feelings of ona my favorite posters here :razz:

I was trying to lighten up for a sec, in the lull.... and I apologize again. Jeesh.It certainly helps to lighten up so thanks christine for trying to do that. Please don't feel like ......... We need more like you.

Starr58
07-15-2008, 08:51 PM
As public servants, our most important responsibility is to protect the most vulnerable among us from harm. Children represent our greatest hope for a better tomorrow and it is heart-wrenching for all of us when we are confronted with cases of abuse – especially sexual abuse against children.

There has been a great deal of talk, finger-pointing and grandstanding in recent days regarding the tragedy of Brooke Bennett’s death. This does nothing to serve Brooke’s memory. This does nothing to address the failures of that particular case and, more importantly, it does nothing to protect children all across our state who deserve to grow up in a safe and loving community.

Last week, I called for an immediate and aggressive internal investigation surrounding a probation officer’s 2004 recommendation that a judge grant Michael Jacques an early discharge from probation. Both the position of the probation officer and decision of the judge in that case couldn’t have been more wrong. I have demanded an overhaul of the department’s policies and practices to ensure that no judge can irresponsibly use the misguided recommendation of a probation officer to release a repeat sex offender from probation.

While that investigation is underway, and until a full report is issued by the Department, I have ordered that under no circumstances will a probation or parole officer or any other individual, department or agency support the early release of any sex offender before they have served their maximum sentence.

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080715/NEWS/813679555

MoonFlwr
07-15-2008, 08:52 PM
dark_shadows,
(Come back after you eat dinner dear friend. )
Question, and I apologize if I somehow missed this if it was asked before :blush:, will cameras be allowed in the courtroom for the upcoming hearings?

Do you know if the 2 creeps are in solitary confinement?

Not sure if you have read back on this thread, philamena, but DS posted this earlier...(pg 2 of this thread)

Originally Posted by dark_shadows View Post
'My very dearest Liz,
Hello my friend!

Jacques and Gagnon are in state facilities, being held as Federal detainees.
You will not find either one in the BOP listings due to the fact that they are secured in the 2 state facilities until they are sentenced and transported to a Federal Holding Facility. Once there, it will be determined what their main facility will be. If they are sententenced to death, they would most likely end up in the Indiana Federal Facility. I say again, most likely.

Due to the fact that the Feds pay the state of Vermont for a certain amount of beds for detainee holding and detainee release, they are on the headcount of the State of Vermont.
Jacques is in the Northwest Correctional Facility in St. Albans. There is a unit that is a lockdown unit. When a detainee enters that facility, they automatically go to that secure unit. These are 1 man cells. They are assigned a caseworker. They are allowed out of their cell for 1 hour recreation in a secured hallway and to use the phone (collect calls). If their behavior has been found acceptable, or if they are not on PC status, after a period of time, they can exercise in a bullpen or watch tv in a secured room.

As far as Gagnon goes, he is being held in the Chittenden Regional Correctional Facility in South Burlington. He is held in the segragation unit and is only allowed out for 1 hour a day. He would do the 1 hour excercise in the hallway where his cell is. They are 2 man cells, but I believe that Gagnon is being held with no cellmate. That is how it was when Brian Rooney was housed in the same unit.'

I hope this helps.


Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Tom'sGirl
07-15-2008, 08:55 PM
It certainly helps to lighten up so thanks christine for trying to do that. Please don't feel like ......... We need more like you.
:other_beatingA_DeadLets move on shall we?

miss lisa
07-15-2008, 08:57 PM
As public servants, our most important responsibility is to protect the most vulnerable among us from harm. Children represent our greatest hope for a better tomorrow and it is heart-wrenching for all of us when we are confronted with cases of abuse – especially sexual abuse against children.

There has been a great deal of talk, finger-pointing and grandstanding in recent days regarding the tragedy of Brooke Bennett’s death. This does nothing to serve Brooke’s memory. This does nothing to address the failures of that particular case and, more importantly, it does nothing to protect children all across our state who deserve to grow up in a safe and loving community.

Last week, I called for an immediate and aggressive internal investigation surrounding a probation officer’s 2004 recommendation that a judge grant Michael Jacques an early discharge from probation. Both the position of the probation officer and decision of the judge in that case couldn’t have been more wrong. I have demanded an overhaul of the department’s policies and practices to ensure that no judge can irresponsibly use the misguided recommendation of a probation officer to release a repeat sex offender from probation.

While that investigation is underway, and until a full report is issued by the Department, I have ordered that under no circumstances will a probation or parole officer or any other individual, department or agency support the early release of any sex offender before they have served their maximum sentence.
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080715/NEWS/813679555



"I have ordered that under no circumstances will a probation or parole officer or any other individual, department or agency support the early release of any sex offender before they have served their maximum sentence."
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
It's about time!!!

Starr58
07-15-2008, 09:04 PM
Listen to a broadcast of Vermont Attorney General Bill Sorrell explain his position on Jessica's Law.

http://www.vpr.net/episode/44000/

In the wake of Brooke Bennett's death, we take a closer look at Vermont's sex offender laws. The body of the 12-year-old Braintree girl was found last week, and federal prosecutors have charged her uncle with kidnapping. Now, some lawmakers are calling for an investigation into the state's sex offender laws, and for the passage of "Jessica's Law", which requires a 25-year minimum sentence for sex offenders. Attorney General Bill Sorrell explains Vermont's current sex offender laws, how they've changed, and why Vermont has a national reputation as being lenient on offenders. (Listen

philamena
07-15-2008, 09:09 PM
Not sure if you have read back on this thread, philamena, but DS posted this earlier...(pg 2 of this thread)




MoonFlwr :blowkiss:
Thanks for posting that for me. I really appreciate it.

Starr58
07-15-2008, 09:10 PM
Tuesday July 15, 2008
Bob Kinzel

Montpelier, Vt.

Senate Democratic leaders have unveiled plans to hold 6 public hearings in the coming months to investigate several different aspects of the Brooke Bennett murder case.

Senate President Peter Shumlin says one focus of the hearings will be to consider the effectiveness of the state's sex offender treatment program in reducing the rate of recidivism.

Shumlin wants the Senate Judiciary committee to review the state's treatment program to determine if it reduces re-offending rates.

Corrections commissioner Rob Hoffman says the answer is yes. Based on a ten year study, he says convicted sex offenders who complete the program have one of the lowest recidivism rates of inmates in the entire Vermont jail system - the rate is roughly 5%.

Convicted offenders who refuse treatment are 6 times more likely to re-offend and the rate for the general prison population is just over
50%:

http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/81326/

Fairy1
07-15-2008, 09:48 PM
Tuesday July 15, 2008
Bob Kinzel

Montpelier, Vt.

Senate Democratic leaders have unveiled plans to hold 6 public hearings in the coming months to investigate several different aspects of the Brooke Bennett murder case.

Senate President Peter Shumlin says one focus of the hearings will be to consider the effectiveness of the state's sex offender treatment program in reducing the rate of recidivism.

Shumlin wants the Senate Judiciary committee to review the state's treatment program to determine if it reduces re-offending rates.

Corrections commissioner Rob Hoffman says the answer is yes. Based on a ten year study, he says convicted sex offenders who complete the program have one of the lowest recidivism rates of inmates in the entire Vermont jail system - the rate is roughly 5%.

Convicted offenders who refuse treatment are 6 times more likely to re-offend and the rate for the general prison population is just over
50%:

http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/81326/

N.O. W.A.Y. Sorry - but this can't be true. This cannot possibly be based on violent sex offenders....IMO. My guess is, they lump in 18 yo boyfriends having consensual sex with their 16 or 17 year old girlfriends and that completely changes the curve. Anyone who spends the slightest amount of time on Websleuths knows that these guys cannot be fixed. I would love to see what the treatment program entails. MJ devised an elaborate plan to molest a young girl (at least!). That alone should prove how determined these freaks are in their evil endeavors. When are the "authorities" EVER going to get it?


:confused::confused::confused:

becca
07-15-2008, 10:04 PM
Good question, but a better one is how many more children have to be murdered by these POS before someone realizes they can't be fixed. They do not all the sudden become normal... they are hardwired wrong. Therapy will not fix it.

DianeB
07-15-2008, 10:19 PM
Tuesday July 15, 2008
Bob Kinzel
Montpelier, Vt.

Based on a ten year study, he says convicted sex offenders who complete the program have one of the lowest recidivism rates of inmates in the entire Vermont jail system - the rate is roughly 5%.

http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/81326/
Are they measuring the recidivism rate of these offenders as it applies only to the Vermont jail system, or is he saying that only 5% will be re-incarcerated anywhere?

It's easy to manipulate statistics to reflect whatever point of view you're promoting.

becca
07-15-2008, 10:25 PM
Are they measuring the recidivism rate of these offenders as it applies only to the Vermont jail system, or is he saying that only 5% will be re-incarcerated anywhere?

It's easy to manipulate statistics to reflect whatever point of view you're promoting.
When you are in charge of them you can do that and pat yourself on the back at the same time... and not loose your balance... isn't life grand ?
Sometimes I think the officials should be locked up too. :banghead:

Salem
07-15-2008, 10:27 PM
Yes it is easy to manipulate statistics. It would be nice to get a copy of his report to see what he based his number on!

Salem

Fairy1
07-15-2008, 10:29 PM
Are they measuring the recidivism rate of these offenders as it applies only to the Vermont jail system, or is he saying that only 5% will be re-incarcerated anywhere?

It's easy to manipulate statistics to reflect whatever point of view you're promoting.

Good point. And yes, they will say anything to be re-elected. On the backs of our babies. Lovely.

DianeB
07-15-2008, 10:31 PM
I think a little email to Bill O'Reilly is in order.

(I'm not a huge fan of his, but on this issue I think he's spot on.)

Salem
07-15-2008, 10:34 PM
I just sent the following email to the guy who wrote the story. Let's see if we get a reply:

"Mr. Kinzel - you recently wrote an article about Vermont's Senate holding 6 meeting regarding sex offender treatment programs. In that article you wrote the following:
"Corrections commissioner Rob Hoffman says the answer is yes. Based on a ten year study, he says convicted sex offenders who complete the program have one of the lowest recidivism rates of inmates in the entire Vermont jail system - the rate is roughly 5%.
Convicted offenders who refuse treatment are 6 times more likely to re-offend and the rate for the general prison population is just over 50%:"
My questions are: is there any way to get a copy of is report? Have you seen the report? If you have seen the report, can you explain the 5% reoffend rate? What is that number based on?
Any further information you provide would be greatly appreciated."

Salem

lightinthedark
07-15-2008, 10:41 PM
:clap: Good job!


I just sent the following email to the guy who wrote the story. Let's see if we get a reply:

"Mr. Kinzel - you recently wrote an article about Vermont's Senate holding 6 meeting regarding sex offender treatment programs. In that article you wrote the following:
"Corrections commissioner Rob Hoffman says the answer is yes. Based on a ten year study, he says convicted sex offenders who complete the program have one of the lowest recidivism rates of inmates in the entire Vermont jail system - the rate is roughly 5%.
Convicted offenders who refuse treatment are 6 times more likely to re-offend and the rate for the general prison population is just over 50%:"
My questions are: is there any way to get a copy of is report? Have you seen the report? If you have seen the report, can you explain the 5% reoffend rate? What is that number based on?
Any further information you provide would be greatly appreciated."

Salem

Alcina
07-15-2008, 10:43 PM
I just sent the following email to the guy who wrote the story. Let's see if we get a reply:

"Mr. Kinzel - you recently wrote an article about Vermont's Senate holding 6 meeting regarding sex offender treatment programs. In that article you wrote the following:
"Corrections commissioner Rob Hoffman says the answer is yes. Based on a ten year study, he says convicted sex offenders who complete the program have one of the lowest recidivism rates of inmates in the entire Vermont jail system - the rate is roughly 5%.
Convicted offenders who refuse treatment are 6 times more likely to re-offend and the rate for the general prison population is just over 50%:"
My questions are: is there any way to get a copy of is report? Have you seen the report? If you have seen the report, can you explain the 5% reoffend rate? What is that number based on?
Any further information you provide would be greatly appreciated."

Salem

Awesome! :woohoo:

becca
07-15-2008, 10:57 PM
Is this public servant appointed by the Gov of Vermont or how does he get to this job? I wish to know .... there is some information I think he should be aware of.

Fairy1
07-16-2008, 12:09 AM
Is this public servant appointed by the Gov of Vermont or how does he get to this job? I wish to know .... there is some information I think he should be aware of.

Regardless of how he got his "job" - please do enlighten him! And anyone else who is deluded on this subject. :blowkiss:

RR0004
07-16-2008, 12:41 AM
That is the way I have posted since I have been here.

I will not do it any longer. I did not know that you felt this way.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with my writing style.

My heart truly hurt when I read that post.
For your heart...which is HUGE btw...oxoxoxoxoxoxo

RR0004
07-16-2008, 12:49 AM
:razz:don't stir the pot.....if you knew me at all, you'd know that is a joke w/me and many in chat. I meant nothing and don't appreciate you 'calling me out' when I already feel like crap for hurting the feelings of ona my favorite posters here :razz:

I was trying to lighten up for a sec, in the lull.... and I apologize again. Jeesh.
FWIW...I knew you meant it in jest.
We've all been traumatized by reading this board for the last month. Some are having a harder time than others dealing with the stressors.
We should all take a collective deep breath...and exhale.

Hugs and kisses to all!

LaLaw2000
07-16-2008, 01:55 AM
They checked Best Buy & learned it was never taken there.

If it ever existed, good luck finding it. He could have buried it somewhere, mailed it somewhere, dumped it somewhere.


For the life of me, I don't understand why these freaks download CP onto their actual computers... it makes no sense.

It makes much more sense that they'd download stuff ONLY onto removable drives so there's no trace on their computers & it's easier to hide.

I am back and just now getting caught up reading the posts.

Remember when LE was searching with a metal detector? It was in an article early on and I cannot find the reference to it. Does anyone else remember? Anyway, I do not feel that they were looking for Brooke's grave with a metal detector - I think they may have been looking for something else MJ buried. A hard drive, maybe? When this case goes to trial, we are going to find out so much about the whole thing!

We try to think logically and come up with answers, but MJ and RG (IMO) are so off the charts that logical does not apply to them!

LaLaw2000
07-16-2008, 02:10 AM
Dearest Miss lisa,:blowkiss:
The U.S. Marshals will escort them to the building. The transport vehicles have tinted glass, so that photos could not be taken upon their arrival to the courthouse. They are not transported by Vermont DOC, they are transported my the U.S. Marshal Service.
I never escorted inmates to the Federal Courthouse, we did not do that. In other courthouses, there was always a garage that we went into out of public eye.

Love and Respect,
dark_shadows

Hi, dark_shadows!
Our courthouse has an underground drive into a basement area. Then a Federal Marshall comes down in the elevator, then goes back up with the inmate and transporting officers. The Federal Marshalls here have 2 'holding cells' in their offices - one for females and one for males.
dark_shadows, I see Gagnon will be in court first. Gagnon will have to be gone from the courthouse before Jacques arrives, won't he?
I will be very interested in what the outcome of the court appearances will be.
Thank you for all the information you have provided, dark_shadows!!! You are greatly appreciated!

LaLaw2000
07-16-2008, 02:19 AM
As public servants, our most important responsibility is to protect the most vulnerable among us from harm. Children represent our greatest hope for a better tomorrow and it is heart-wrenching for all of us when we are confronted with cases of abuse – especially sexual abuse against children.

There has been a great deal of talk, finger-pointing and grandstanding in recent days regarding the tragedy of Brooke Bennett’s death. This does nothing to serve Brooke’s memory. This does nothing to address the failures of that particular case and, more importantly, it does nothing to protect children all across our state who deserve to grow up in a safe and loving community.

Last week, I called for an immediate and aggressive internal investigation surrounding a probation officer’s 2004 recommendation that a judge grant Michael Jacques an early discharge from probation. Both the position of the probation officer and decision of the judge in that case couldn’t have been more wrong. I have demanded an overhaul of the department’s policies and practices to ensure that no judge can irresponsibly use the misguided recommendation of a probation officer to release a repeat sex offender from probation.

While that investigation is underway, and until a full report is issued by the Department, I have ordered that under no circumstances will a probation or parole officer or any other individual, department or agency support the early release of any sex offender before they have served their maximum sentence.

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080715/NEWS/813679555

VERY good!! Now it needs to be KEPT that way. Change the laws NOW.

miss lisa
07-16-2008, 07:30 AM
Could they have possibly been looking for the "machine" as well?

LaLaw2000
07-16-2008, 08:16 AM
Could they have possibly been looking for the "machine" as well?

I don't know, miss lisa. Could be. Who knows since Jacques is so demented!

miss lisa
07-16-2008, 08:23 AM
Further speculation of what LE could have been looking for with a metal detector:

The Machine he ordered
A weapon (knife/gun)
Hard drive
Metal lock box with videos/cash in it
hand cuffs

Anything else????

LaLaw2000
07-16-2008, 08:26 AM
Further speculation of what LE could have been looking for with a metal detector:

The Machine he ordered
A weapon (knife/gun)
Hard drive
Metal lock box with videos/cash in it
hand cuffs

Anything else????


I think that would pretty well cover it! I do hope LE found whatever it was.

SUPI
07-16-2008, 09:14 AM
I very much appreciate the link given for this interview. I listened to the interview in full. This was an excellent chance to see just what the thinking by the gov in Vermont. The tap dancing was spectacular, some of the best I've ever experienced. To summarize what I thought he had to say quickly, those who are targeted by these POSs should be careful. It is important that we realize they are out there and to take common sense care to protect our children. Jessica's law seems a bit harsh and the POSs will be afraid to confess making the prosecutors job harder to get a conviction. Talked about MJ and how he would have been treated under Vermont's new tougher laws they have today than when he was prosecuted for the kidnapping and sexual assault of a 18 year old. It sounds like he might have gotten another 2 years or so but nothing is mandatory. The Atny Gen pointed out that this was a case involving an 18 year old, and not a child. Lots of $ and time out there being used to coax the offender to confess since it is so hard to get a conviction when the child is unable, unwilling, to testify. He also mentions how hard it is when the child isn't able to sound convincing. If this guy has his way you will not see Jessica's law in Vermont. He glosses over DNA and other possible evidence in favor of the child's quality of telling their story on the stand.

Again, do not expect there to be any change here unless it is to do some cosmetic changes that will be aimed at making the taxpayer feel better. I'd be interested in some feed back.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 09:23 AM
I had posted a couple days back that I thought it was a metal detector, after looking at it gain I then said that it appeared to be a light (uv). Maybe someone else could take a look.

becca
07-16-2008, 09:36 AM
I very much appreciate the link given for this interview. I listened to the interview in full. This was an excellent chance to see just what the thinking by the gov in Vermont. The tap dancing was spectacular, some of the best I've ever experienced. To summarize what I thought he had to say quickly, those who are targeted by these POSs should be careful. It is important that we realize they are out there and to take common sense care to protect our children. Jessica's law seems a bit harsh and the POSs will be afraid to confess making the prosecutors job harder to get a conviction. Talked about MJ and how he would have been treated under Vermont's new tougher laws they have today than when he was prosecuted for the kidnapping and sexual assault of a 18 year old. It sounds like he might have gotten another 2 years or so but nothing is mandatory. The Atny Gen pointed out that this was a case involving an 18 year old, and not a child. Lots of $ and time out there being used to coax the offender to confess since it is so hard to get a conviction when the child is unable, unwilling, to testify. He also mentions how hard it is when the child isn't able to sound convincing. If this guy has his way you will not see Jessica's law in Vermont. He glosses over DNA and other possible evidence in favor of the child's quality of telling their story on the stand.

Again, do not expect there to be any change here unless it is to do some cosmetic changes that will be aimed at making the taxpayer feel better. I'd be interested in some feed back.

Until lawmarkers realize that SOs only become RSO s once they are caught and they will reoffend... there will never be change. they will dress it up but it will never be enough .
Mandatory sentences and GPS tracking are the only ways to deal with them short of the DP. Obviously Vermont thinks otherwise and its not working out real well for them.
Thirty three states say Jessie's Law will work.... the other 17 are either considering something close or are in denial.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 09:44 AM
GPS would not have hindered MJ, AR was at his disposal,he should not have been allowed to live in a house that had children present. Denise should have had to have psychiatric counseling when she helped with the early release.

becca
07-16-2008, 09:46 AM
GPS would not have hindered MJ, AR was at his disposal,he should not have been allowed to live in a house that had children present. Denise should have had to have psychiatric counseling when she helped with the early release.
I know that, but not all of them live in the same house.... they should never be allowed around children ever. NO MATTER the reasons.

Starr58
07-16-2008, 09:47 AM
I very much appreciate the link given for this interview. I listened to the interview in full. This was an excellent chance to see just what the thinking by the gov in Vermont. The tap dancing was spectacular, some of the best I've ever experienced. To summarize what I thought he had to say quickly, those who are targeted by these POSs should be careful. It is important that we realize they are out there and to take common sense care to protect our children. Jessica's law seems a bit harsh and the POSs will be afraid to confess making the prosecutors job harder to get a conviction. Talked about MJ and how he would have been treated under Vermont's new tougher laws they have today than when he was prosecuted for the kidnapping and sexual assault of a 18 year old. It sounds like he might have gotten another 2 years or so but nothing is mandatory. The Atny Gen pointed out that this was a case involving an 18 year old, and not a child. Lots of $ and time out there being used to coax the offender to confess since it is so hard to get a conviction when the child is unable, unwilling, to testify. He also mentions how hard it is when the child isn't able to sound convincing. If this guy has his way you will not see Jessica's law in Vermont. He glosses over DNA and other possible evidence in favor of the child's quality of telling their story on the stand.

Again, do not expect there to be any change here unless it is to do some cosmetic changes that will be aimed at making the taxpayer feel better. I'd be interested in some feed back.


Supi, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to our Attorney General. It is nice to hear from someone outside Vermont say that Bill Sorrell is a great tap dancer!!

As a native Vermonter I have been watching him and other APPOINTED judicial officers, along with legislators tap dance for years. To bad the Lawrence Welk show is no longer on as they would be star performers...

I hope that individuals on WS will find it in their hearts to email our Governor and any other TAP DANCERS in Honor of Brooke Bennett for major changes in Vermont. Not only with our laws!!

Judge Davenport needs to be thrown of the bench now!!!! would be interesting to see her sentencing record on sex offenders!!

becca
07-16-2008, 09:51 AM
Supi, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to our Attorney General. It is nice to hear from someone outside Vermont say that Bill Sorrell is a great tap dancer!!

As a native Vermonter I have been watching him and other APPOINTED judicial officers, along with legislators tap dance for years. To bad the Lawrence Welk show is no longer on as they would be star performers...

I hope that individuals on WS will find it in their hearts to email our Governor and any other TAP DANCERS in Honor of Brooke Bennett for major changes in Vermont. Not only with our laws!!

Judge Davenport needs to be thrown of the bench now!!!! would be interesting to see her sentencing record on sex offenders!!

Are you saying the Govenor appoints these people?

Starr58
07-16-2008, 10:07 AM
this is 210 pages of graphed information and statistics.

http://doc.vermont.gov/about/reports/ff2007_adobe



Sex Offenders Legal Status 6/2007

Probation - 601
Parole - 52
Intermediate Sanctions ?? - 15
Re-Entry - 94
PRISON - 426

TOTAL-1188

Now I ask how many show up on the Vermont Registry???? Only those convicted after 1996!!!

becca
07-16-2008, 10:10 AM
Thank you for posting that... I want to sit and read it when I'm not dividing my attention .

Starr58
07-16-2008, 10:13 AM
Are you saying the Govenor appoints these people?

According to the broadcast at VPR...Attorney General Bill Sorrell stated that Vermont Judges are appointed. I beleive a 'Committee" makes recommendations to the Governor...

Starr58
07-16-2008, 10:17 AM
Thank you for posting that... I want to sit and read it when I'm not dividing my attention .

Pages 149 and 150 provide statistics on BOTH Facility based and "COMMUNITY BASED" sex offender treatment programs....

First I knew that VT DOC sex offender treatment programs are being provided in the community. Hmmmmm what are the qualifications of these "community based" sex offender treatment providers ?? Who pays for the offender to recieve treatment? what is the cost to taxpayers??

Bullet is much cheaper, Rope and a tree cheaper yet!!!

becca
07-16-2008, 10:22 AM
According to the broadcast at VPR...Attorney General Bill Sorrell stated that Vermont Judges are appointed. I beleive a 'Committee" makes recommendations to the Governor...
So the good honorable Governor Appoints these people to sit on the bench? The people elect him correct? The people elect the state legislature correct?? See where I'm going with this?
The good people of Vermont must make some changes starting with those duly elected officials that are having problems passing laws with teeth.
Like I said last night I sometimes think they should go to jail too... maybe then they would see what these RSOs are really like.
What is the outcry in Vermont , do the people want change? Not what is reported in the media but people on the street, friends, family etc.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 10:28 AM
I brought this up once before and was told that I was wrong. I have looked at the affidavit (again) and the address at the top of the affidavit is 1850,with in the affidavit the address is 1820. As before I am curious if the machine was delivered to the home they live in,or the rental house. Does anyone know if the rental home is occupied.

becca
07-16-2008, 10:29 AM
Pages 149 and 150 provide statistics on BOTH Facility based and "COMMUNITY BASED" sex offender treatment programs....

First I knew that VT DOC sex offender treatment programs are being provided in the community. Hmmmmm what are the qualifications of these "community based" sex offender treatment providers ?? Who pays for the offender to recieve treatment? what is the cost to taxpayers??

Bullet is much cheaper, Rope and a tree cheaper yet!!!

Is that like AA for Sex Offenders? They sit in a church meeting room and hold hands and pray? Nothing against AA , but to have the same program for a SO is nothing short of STUPID.

Starr58
07-16-2008, 10:40 AM
http://doc.vermont.gov/programs/vtpsa/

Aftercare Community Programs. (Level A or B) This program provides treatment to sex offenders sentenced to probation as well as to offenders returning to the community from prison on supervised release. This program is made up of a statewide network of 13 programs geographically dispersed throughout Vermont. The program delivers one 90 to 120 minute group session per week for approximately 24 months followed by monthly aftercare meetings for 12 months. The program is staffed by masters and doctoral level mental health professionals. A polygrapher is contracted part-time to conduct approximately 165 polygraph exams a year on sex offenders referred to him by DOC.

becca
07-16-2008, 10:54 AM
http://doc.vermont.gov/programs/vtpsa/

Aftercare Community Programs. (Level A or B) This program provides treatment to sex offenders sentenced to probation as well as to offenders returning to the community from prison on supervised release. This program is made up of a statewide network of 13 programs geographically dispersed throughout Vermont. The program delivers one 90 to 120 minute group session per week for approximately 24 months followed by monthly aftercare meetings for 12 months. The program is staffed by masters and doctoral level mental health professionals. A polygrapher is contracted part-time to conduct approximately 165 polygraph exams a year on sex offenders referred to him by DOC.

I don't get group sessions for these guys. Its like talking about your fantasies with other like minded people... if you didn't have the thought I just gave it to you.
165 polys a year on how many people ? I'd be giving them every week.... better yet they wouldn't need them where I'd have them.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 10:56 AM
Unbelievable. I would hate to see how much this all costs per year. I'm still hung up on the whole deeming RSOs that complete the program as "rehabilitated". :furious:


http://doc.vermont.gov/programs/vtpsa/

Aftercare Community Programs. (Level A or B) This program provides treatment to sex offenders sentenced to probation as well as to offenders returning to the community from prison on supervised release. This program is made up of a statewide network of 13 programs geographically dispersed throughout Vermont. The program delivers one 90 to 120 minute group session per week for approximately 24 months followed by monthly aftercare meetings for 12 months. The program is staffed by masters and doctoral level mental health professionals. A polygrapher is contracted part-time to conduct approximately 165 polygraph exams a year on sex offenders referred to him by DOC.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 10:58 AM
I don't get group sessions for these guys. Its like talking about your fantasies with other like minded people... if you didn't have the thought I just gave it to you. 165 polys a year on how many people ? I'd be giving them every week.... better yet they wouldn't need them where I'd have them.

No Kidding!! :behindbar

Starr58
07-16-2008, 11:01 AM
I don't get High Level Sex Offenders recieving 8 hours per week of sex offender treatment while incarcerated and the VT DOC designated them as SUCCESSFUL upon completion!!!

Medea
07-16-2008, 11:07 AM
While I agree group therapy is overrated overall and that most of these treatment programs are more geared toward making the rehabilitation crowd happy rather than creating anything measurable in terms of results...to play devil's advocate...what do you want the government to do with sex offenders? Nothing?

I don't think all sex offenders are the same. Some of them...the violent predators, serial rapists, and pedophiles who have engaged in long term abuse of one or more children are not good candidates for rehab. But what about the rest of them?

What about the college rapist? Is he truly a lost cause and can't be made to see the harm he committed? What about those in prison for statutory rape?

marly56
07-16-2008, 11:10 AM
Pages 149 and 150 provide statistics on BOTH Facility based and "COMMUNITY BASED" sex offender treatment programs....

First I knew that VT DOC sex offender treatment programs are being provided in the community. Hmmmmm what are the qualifications of these "community based" sex offender treatment providers ?? Who pays for the offender to recieve treatment? what is the cost to taxpayers??

Bullet is much cheaper, Rope and a tree cheaper yet!!!
my question ...what is ''the treatment'' what does ''the treatment'' consist of?

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 11:12 AM
Unless they have mind readers, how do they know that these POS are rehabilitated. Because the shrink said so and because they passed a polygraph? Give me a break! Both can be BS'd! How do these people sleep at night?

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 11:16 AM
[QUOTE=Medea;2385507]Some of them...the violent predators, serial rapists, and pedophiles who have engaged in long term abuse of one or more children are not good candidates for rehab. QUOTE]

These are the ones I have a major problem with being diagnosed as rehabilitated.

becca
07-16-2008, 11:22 AM
SO's are not wired right.... they do not get better. Couey had never murdered before Jessie.... he had molested... not raped.

believe09
07-16-2008, 11:33 AM
I am just wondering if some of the discussion on the sex offender laws might take place on this thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66865

I am just having a little bit of trouble keeping up with the actual case....no offense meant, just a suggestion. I think Becca raised the issue that two affidavits list 1850 and 1820 respectively as the address that the machine was shipped to...great observation and question!!! Was the rental house occupied and who might have signed for the package??

Starr58
07-16-2008, 11:45 AM
I am just wondering if some of the discussion on the sex offender laws might take place on this thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66865

I am just having a little bit of trouble keeping up with the actual case....no offense meant, just a suggestion. I think Becca raised the issue that two affidavits list 1850 and 1820 respectively as the address that the machine was shipped to...great observation and question!!! Was the rental house occupied and who might have signed for the package??

So noted....

Does anyone else find it somewhat strange that RG attended church with James Bennett on Sunday after Brooke's disappearance. Were RG and jim friends or past associates in anyway? What was the connection there?

Do people normally attend church with a person who is not family or a close friend to provide support?

Medea
07-16-2008, 11:47 AM
So noted....

Does anyone else find it somewhat strange that RG attended church with James Bennett on Sunday after Brooke's disappearance. Were RG and jim friends or past associates in anyway? What was the connection there?

Do people normally attend church with a person who is not family or a close friend to provide support?

He was Brooke's former step father and if I remember correctly lived in the same house with Brooke for several years.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 11:50 AM
I asked the question about the addresses on the affidavit, at the top of the affidavit MJ's address is listed as 1850,in the affidavit it is listed as 1820.The same affidavit.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 11:56 AM
I still have suspicions that he was in the state of vermont when Brooke went missing. He said he came back upon hearing the news from someone, he was on the phone with MJ the nite Brooke went missing(fixing) the dates on Brookes myspace.

becca
07-16-2008, 11:56 AM
I asked the question about the addresses on the affidavit, at the top of the affidavit MJ's address is listed as 1850,in the affidavit it is listed as 1820.The same affidavit.
I was just getting ready to post that.... I knew it wasn't me that caught that.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 11:58 AM
I am just wondering if some of the discussion on the sex offender laws might take place on this thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66865

I am just having a little bit of trouble keeping up with the actual case....no offense meant, just a suggestion. I think Becca raised the issue that two affidavits list 1850 and 1820 respectively as the address that the machine was shipped to...great observation and question!!! Was the rental house occupied and who might have signed for the package??

The affidavits states that it was shipped to 1820 (the actual residence of MJ). The rental property is 1850. I haven't found it listed anywhere if the rental property is occupied or not. If it were vacant, I would think the media would report that place was being searched as well. I haven't seen anything stating the rental was searched. I could be wrong. It does not state who signed for the package in the affidavit. I'm not sure it's relevent. In most cases, if someone were to order something that is "private", the return address would be the only thing listed on the package, not the name company shipping it. Just a thought. So, if Denise or someone else signed for it, MJ could have dismissed it as being work related or as something else that wouldn't raise the red flag. At least, that's what I'm hoping. What I don't understand is, how can you hide these machines once they are out of the box? I don't know what they are, so I have no idea what the sizes are, I didn't look any of the listed items up. Does anyone know if these things take up a lot of space?

Tom'sGirl
07-16-2008, 12:01 PM
The affidavits states that it was shipped to 1820 (the actual residence of MJ). The rental property is 1850. I haven't found it listed anywhere if the rental property is occupied or not. If it were vacant, I would think the media would report that place was being searched as well. I haven't seen anything stating the rental was searched. I could be wrong. It does not state who signed for the package in the affidavit. I'm not sure it's relevent. In most cases, if someone were to order something that is "private", the return address would be the only thing listed on the package, not the name company shipping it. Just a thought. So, if Denise or someone else signed for it, MJ could have dismissed it as being work related or as something else that wouldn't raise the red flag. At least, that's what I'm hoping. What I don't understand is, how can you hide these machines once they are out of the box? I don't know what they are, so I have no idea what the sizes are, I didn't look any of the listed items up. Does anyone know if these things take up a lot of space?
This has been asked before, it weighs 30 lbs., and folds flat. Its' not a stationary type device like a treadmill is once assembled.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 12:03 PM
I asked the question about the addresses on the affidavit, at the top of the affidavit MJ's address is listed as 1850,in the affidavit it is listed as 1820.The same affidavit.

Which affidavit are you reffering to?

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 12:06 PM
This has been asked before, it weighs 30 lbs., and folds flat. Its' not a stationary type device like a treadmill is once assembled.

30 lbs? :eek: Thanks for the answer, I must have missed the posts discussing it.

believe09
07-16-2008, 12:07 PM
I asked the question about the addresses on the affidavit, at the top of the affidavit MJ's address is listed as 1850,in the affidavit it is listed as 1820.The same affidavit.

my bad-and thanks to all of you for helping me sort through this one.

Someone was also kind enough to PM me to let me know that the package would not necessarily be signed for since the area is not highly trafficked. My area is pretty urban so this did not even occur to me!!! O/T what do you think the UPS driver was thinking while he/she was making that delivery! YIKES.

Medea
07-16-2008, 12:12 PM
I still have suspicions that he was in the state of vermont when Brooke went missing. He said he came back upon hearing the news from someone, he was on the phone with MJ the nite Brooke went missing(fixing) the dates on Brookes myspace.

It's possible but for sure LE knows where he was..if he was on a landline then they know where it was and if he was no a cell phone triangulation will also tell them where he was.

I think he was in Texas as he said he was and that by the time he got involved Brooke was already dead. I am on the fence as to whether he knew about the abduction plot in advance or not, but I don't think he was in Vermont prior to the 27th.

Tom'sGirl
07-16-2008, 12:24 PM
Which affidavit are you reffering to?
The three (3) page affidavit signed 6-30-08.

It gives MJ's address as 1850 up in the left hand corner, then it states on page 3 that MJ and Denise currently live at 1820 and that their prior residence was next door.

vt8881
07-16-2008, 12:27 PM
So noted....

Does anyone else find it somewhat strange that RG attended church with James Bennett on Sunday after Brooke's disappearance. Were RG and jim friends or past associates in anyway? What was the connection there?

Do people normally attend church with a person who is not family or a close friend to provide support?
My understanding is that Jim Bennett was stationed in Alabama before going to Iraq and Cassandra was with him. Also, my understanding is that while Cassandra was in Alabama, she began or continued a relationship with RG, while Jim Bennett was in Iraq.
This was told to me by a resident from Bethel, VT - the same town where Jim Bennett currently lives.

Tom'sGirl
07-16-2008, 12:40 PM
My understanding is that Jim Bennett was stationed in Alabama before going to Iraq and Cassandra was with him. Also, my understanding is that while Cassandra was in Alabama, she began or continued a relationship with RG, while Jim Bennett was in Iraq.
This was told to me by a resident from Bethel, VT - the same town where Jim Bennett currently lives.
That contrasts with this article regarding James and Janet and their re-marriage.
http://www.rherald.com/News/2004/0916/Front_Page/f01.html (http://www.rherald.com/News/2004/0916/Front_Page/f01.html)

NewMom2003
07-16-2008, 01:34 PM
Has Brooke's cause of death been determined yet? :(

What is Denise Jacques' position on her husband's part in this? I hope she realizes what a monster he is and isn't supporting him.

NewMom2003
07-16-2008, 01:37 PM
Also, how long has Brooke's mom been separated/divorced from Gagnon?

Thanks in advance.

believe09
07-16-2008, 01:37 PM
Has Brooke's cause of death been determined yet? :(

What is Denise Jacques' position on her husband's part in this? I hope she realizes what a monster he is and isn't supporting him.

From your lips to God's ears, as they say...

Brooks Aunt
07-16-2008, 01:52 PM
So noted....

Does anyone else find it somewhat strange that RG attended church with James Bennett on Sunday after Brooke's disappearance. Were RG and jim friends or past associates in anyway? What was the connection there?

Do people normally attend church with a person who is not family or a close friend to provide support?

He did not attend specifically with jim he was there because the whole family went. Both sides.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 01:56 PM
So the scumbag fixes Brooke's email for MJ and attends church with both sides of the family during their grieving.

hondarooly
07-16-2008, 02:00 PM
Newbie here...could someone tell me what this machine is that you are talking about?? or a link I could read about it??

TIA

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 02:19 PM
I don't know that you would want to see it,but it comes from a company called extremerestraints.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 02:22 PM
He did not attend specifically with jim he was there because the whole family went. Both sides.

Hello Brooks Aunt, thank you for posting here. Many posters have been asking if Cassandra and Denise are on speaking terms or not. Also asking if Cassandra is supporting MJ. Do you happen to know the answers?

Thank you.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 02:30 PM
Newbie here...could someone tell me what this machine is that you are talking about?? or a link I could read about it??

TIA

The machine's name is listed in the affidavit with the emails on page 11. Here's the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/adnoid/bennett/Brooke%20Bennett%20Affidavit%20Jul%203%20emails.pd f

I'm new to posting so I hope that link works.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 02:34 PM
Hondarooly, I went back to try and the link,but could not it was discribed and that was enough for me. Let's just say I don't think it was designed for a 12 year old.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 02:39 PM
Hondarooly, I went back to try and the link,but could not it was discribed and that was enough for me. Let's just say I don't think it was designed for a 12 year old.

I made the mistake of going to the site and found the machine and all of it's descriptions :eek: :eek: :eek:

Tom'sGirl
07-16-2008, 02:46 PM
The machine's name is listed in the affidavit with the emails on page 11. Here's the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/adnoid/bennett/Brooke%20Bennett%20Affidavit%20Jul%203%20emails.pd f

I'm new to posting so I hope that link works.

hondarooly was sent the DIRECT link in a PM awhile ago.............

EnvoyDriver61
07-16-2008, 02:47 PM
Is anyone else concerned with this case? There hasn't been much info released. Speculation on the board was that LE is making sure their case is airtight and that more arrests/charges would come after Brooke's funeral.

There was also speculation that LE was trying to get more criminals involved in the porn ring.

I'm concerned that the case hinges on a child who may or may not have been properly Mirandaed and now has a lawyer and isn't talking anymore.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 02:48 PM
I hope Hondarooly returns.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 02:49 PM
hondarooly was sent the DIRECT link in a PM awhile ago.............

OK then. Thank you.:)

Salem
07-16-2008, 02:49 PM
It's just sick, sick, sick! I read that affidavit and now I need to puke. I can not understand how this stuff goes on. UGGGGHHHHHHAAAAGGGGGG!

Salem

Tom'sGirl
07-16-2008, 02:51 PM
Is anyone else concerned with this case? There hasn't been much info released. Speculation on the board was that LE is making sure their case is airtight and that more arrests/charges would come after Brooke's funeral.

There was also speculation that LE was trying to get more criminals involved in the porn ring.

I'm concerned that the case hinges on a child who may or may not have been properly Mirandaed and now has a lawyer and isn't talking anymore.
D_S has posted this information on several threads, maybe tomorrow we will learn more.........dunno!

Tomorrow, July 17th, outside the courthouse there will live stream.

D_S post on this: Times, etc. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2383150&postcount=6

http://www.wptz.com/video/11306790/index.html (http://www.wptz.com/video/11306790/index.html)

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 02:51 PM
I wandered whether Denise had to give permission for AR to speak,and whether Juv2 was also questioned as to whether he did pick AR up that day.

Salem
07-16-2008, 02:53 PM
If this was my daughter, after reading those emails, I would shoot this guy. What do you do? Oh my God! I can't believe it. I don't even know this child and I am ready to rip this guy's throat out! Except the thought of actually touching him makes my skin crawl. Definitely would need to use some kind of weapon.

Sorry for ranting here, but that document was just tooooooooo much for me!

Salem

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 02:55 PM
Is anyone else concerned with this case? There hasn't been much info released. Speculation on the board was that LE is making sure their case is airtight and that more arrests/charges would come after Brooke's funeral.

There was also speculation that LE was trying to get more criminals involved in the porn ring.

I'm concerned that the case hinges on a child who may or may not have been properly Mirandaed and now has a lawyer and isn't talking anymore.

I'm hoping more info will come out tomorrow about all of this. Dark_Shadows posted a live media link for RG's and MJ's day in court. Forgive me if someone already explained this... But tomorrow is for the kidnapping charges and destroying evidence? TIA.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 02:57 PM
Salem if not mistaken it's been stated that the affidavit we are looking at is not the full affidavit.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 02:58 PM
I believe it will be at 2:00.

Medea
07-16-2008, 03:01 PM
Is anyone else concerned with this case? There hasn't been much info released. Speculation on the board was that LE is making sure their case is airtight and that more arrests/charges would come after Brooke's funeral.

There was also speculation that LE was trying to get more criminals involved in the porn ring.

I'm concerned that the case hinges on a child who may or may not have been properly Mirandaed and now has a lawyer and isn't talking anymore.

AR's emails speak for themselves, plus you don't need to be Miranda's unless you are officially considered a suspect and are about to be arrested or questioned as an official suspect. If she was questioned as a witness then no Miranda is necessary. There is also ample other evidence that ties Jacques to the crime including the Cumberland Farms video, his finding of the planted evidence...which supports the email exchange being accurate..as well as his calls to Gagnon and Gangon admitting to evidence tampering.

I'm in the minority on other arrests, I don't think there will be any new players who are arrested. It is going to be Jacques, Gagnon and possibly Kevin G. for some kind of evidence tampering or child porn charge...a long shot would be Juvenile 2 as an accomplice. But, in my opinion that is it. There was no porn ring beyond those already identified and there are IMO no more direct victims other than possibly other members of Jacques family.

Salem
07-16-2008, 03:02 PM
Salem if not mistaken it's been stated that the affidavit we are looking at is not the full affidavit.

Oh Elley - you mean there is more? That poor girl. He had her so convinced that what he was doing to her was a "good" thing.:furious::furious: This total mind control thing, while he is implicating her and getting her to buy into harming others, just blows me away.:furious:

Our children are so fragile when they are young. I can't help but think her entire life is ruined, that even with years and years of counseling, she will never be "well."

I'm not reading anymore. This is just too heavy duty for me:eek: actually being able to SEE what was going on, makes it too "real."

Salem

bdmama
07-16-2008, 03:15 PM
I just found this in our local Vermont newspaper help wanted ads.....

FULL TIME THERAPIST For prison sex offender treatment program in Springfield, VT. Advanced degree and experience required. Contact Tammy (802) 651-****. Apply by 8/1/08.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LI_Mom
07-16-2008, 03:31 PM
I'm in the minority on other arrests, I don't think there will be any new players who are arrested. It is going to be Jacques, Gagnon and possibly Kevin G. for some kind of evidence tampering or child porn charge...a long shot would be Juvenile 2 as an accomplice. But, in my opinion that is it. There was no porn ring beyond those already identified and there are IMO no more direct victims other than possibly other members of Jacques family.

That's what I think also.


And maybe they'll be able to develop some leads that expose a few more people w/ CP on their computers but have nothing to do with Brooke's kidnapping & murder.

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 03:50 PM
Speaking of Gagnon,did he say in his affidavit that MJ had sent him pictures of AR and Juv2 having sex,Did Juv2 not know that he was being photographed.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 04:14 PM
Speaking of Gagnon,did he say in his affidavit that MJ had sent him pictures of AR and Juv2 having sex,Did Juv2 not know that he was being photographed.

Yes, that is true. He claims he had the photos of AR and JUV2 in the safe, IIRC.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 04:17 PM
Does anyone know if LE/FBI are still in the landfill searching for the safe/hard drive? I'm curious if they will make a simple announcement if they find it, or if they will not say anything at all.

DeltaDawn
07-16-2008, 04:18 PM
So the scumbag fixes Brooke's email for MJ and attends church with both sides of the family during their grieving.

Doesn't it hit anyone else as very strange that Gagnon would take a late night phone call from Jacques and then on the basis of that call start changing emails and Myspace, load up his own flash drives and equipment, fly to Alabama, store computer info at his home there, go to the public library and then make more changes to someone else's account, then fly to Vermont? What does he actually know..I can't believe that just because he had pron on his computer and sometimes traded with Jacques in their little club that he would go to all that trouble.

I believe that he knew about this plan with Brooke from the beginning and also knew that Brooke had been killed by Jacques....otherwise it would have been smarter to stay in Texas unaware, fly up to support his ex wife in the search for Brooke and take his lumps if they found out he had porn on his computer. No this guy is in it way deep to have done all he did..and I think he and Kevin the landlord knew exactly what was happening the entire time. I hope they have both turned on MJ ..and I hope MJ admitted he killed Brooke to Gagnon.

DeltaDawn
07-16-2008, 04:21 PM
I just found this in our local Vermont newspaper help wanted ads.....


I think I 'll apply and bring the alligator cart with me if they get into discussing their crimes and fantasies.:croc:

Elley Mae
07-16-2008, 04:26 PM
If Brooke was going to visit Gagnon in Texas as stated by her father and looking forward to it,and MJ's emails alluding to time constrains for it to be done. Does it seem possible that MJ did not want gagnon to have a chance at Brooke. Gagnon did not have a record prior to these events. Probably would have been "girl from Vermont missing in Texas while visiting ex-stepfather".Its just my thought,just can't understand why Brooke had to die.

lightinthedark
07-16-2008, 04:30 PM
Doesn't it hit anyone else as very strange that Gagnon would take a late night phone call from Jacques and then on the basis of that call start changing emails and Myspace, load up his own flash drives and equipment, fly to Alabama, store computer info at his home there, go to the public library and then make more changes to someone else's account, then fly to Vermont? What does he actually know..I can't believe that just because he had pron on his computer and sometimes traded with Jacques in their little club that he would go to all that trouble.

I believe that he knew about this plan with Brooke from the beginning and also knew that Brooke had been killed by Jacques....otherwise it would have been smarter to stay in Texas unaware, fly up to support his ex wife in the search for Brooke and take his lumps if they found out he had porn on his computer. No this guy is in it way deep to have done all he did..and I think he and Kevin the landlord knew exactly what was happening the entire time. I hope they have both turned on MJ ..and I hope MJ admitted he killed Brooke to Gagnon.

I absolutely agree with you.:behindbar