Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #13

[christine2448]

Please continue GENERAL discussions here.

Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.

Newbies....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/WELCOMETOWSBLUE.gif

I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

[GetSmart]

Thank You for all your hard work Christine & you are so right.

Another link to info to rehash & remind

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," June 16, 2008.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66471 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66471)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,368022,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,368022,00.html)

ROSSER: They left somewhere around 4:30, maybe a little after in the afternoon, walked across this road here. And they walked down here to about a couple hundred yards, maybe 300 yards. That's where Mr. Placker found the girls later this afternoon.
RITTBERG: What kind of traffic does this street get?
ROSSER: If you turn back east, you go about two miles to a little community of Bryant. And this is a major--a good connector road between this community of Bryant and Weleetka. So, yes, quite a bit of traffic here. Again, I don't know how heavy it is, but there's quite a bit of traffic.
RITTBERG: And what evidence was found near the bodies?
ROSSER: Well, I can't disclose that at this time.
RITTBERG All the evidence that was taken from the crime scene is pretty much from this dirt road onto the ditch where they were found?
ROSSER: Yes. Now north and south of this area, as you can see. There's tire impressions. Anything that was distinguishable the might be used for identification, they went ahead and photographed and documented the tire prints.
There was some shoe prints found in the dirt around here. They went ahead and documented those.
RITTBERG We're driving on this dirt road. It's quite hard to find. It is very much off the beaten track. Is that why police are assuming it was someone local, because they knew how to get in and out?
ROSSER: Yes. And, if you'll notice, the area is partially populated. Most of this is agricultural or heavily wooded. So for someone to come off the Interstate or something like that, a transient or somebody just passing through, if they got down here it would be hard to find their way out
ROSSER: I don't know. Just guessing, we probably had several hundred--between 200 and 300 or so, probably.
I guess you could look at the progress involved in collecting these leads and following them out is like panning for gold. The old miners used to sift so much soil and everything to come up with that one nugget, and that's what we're doing. We're trying to look for that one nugget or that one piece of the puzzle that will put it all together for us.
RITTBERG: Do you feel confident that among all these leads something is going to come in.
ROSSER: We'll know who it is. We'll identify the guy. It may take a little while but we'll know who it is.

[SeriouslySearching]

Here is the sketch Harvey Pratt did of the killer of Tammy Harjo:

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2008_Press_Releases/PR-2008-05-05__Sketch_Released_in_Okmulgee_Murder_Case.html

Compare it to the actual killer they caught because of his sketch:

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2008_Press_Releases/PR-2008-05-09_Okmulgee_Murder_Arrest.html

The face is the right width. Everything is in proportion. The lips are perfect. HP is the best in the biz and I trust that when we find finally see the POI...it will look almost exactly like him.

Byrd's face is rounded and much wider. So many things just don't match up to the sketch. The length, the width, and other things. Not him and is the reason they are not holding him. (Do you guys honestly believe everything you read on Topix? Who verified this Steve who proclaims to be LE?)

[oceanblueeyes]

This article is dated June 13, 2008, the same day OSBI came out with the POI sketch.

Snip...

Brown has described the man as American Indian, 6-feet-tall with brown eyes and a long black ponytail. Witnesses said the man was seen standing outside his truck on the county road where the girls were later found dead. Brown said witnesses told investigators that truck was blocking the road around the time of the shooting and the man was standing outside the truck. About six witnesses have given the same account, Brown said.


http://www.newsok.com/article/3256954/

I watched this PC and I don't remember OSBI ever saying he was part Caucasian or of European decent. The first I saw of that was when Fox did their article that day.

imoo

[christine2448]

Who verified this Steve who proclaims to be LE?

I'd like to know about this too. How much sleuthing have ya done to see if this is legit?

[oceanblueeyes]

Here is the sketch Harvey Pratt did of the killer of Tammy Harjo:

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2008_Press_Releases/PR-2008-05-05__Sketch_Released_in_Okmulgee_Murder_Case.html

Compare it to the actual killer they caught because of his sketch:

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2008_Press_Releases/PR-2008-05-09_Okmulgee_Murder_Arrest.html

The face is the right width. Everything is in proportion. The lips are perfect. HP is the best in the biz and I trust that when we find finally see the POI...it will look almost exactly like him.

Byrd's face is rounded and much wider. So many things just don't match up to the sketch. The length, the width, and other things. Not him and is the reason they are not holding him. (Do you guys honestly believe everything you read on Topix? Who verified this Steve who proclaims to be LE?)

Was the information for the sketch given by one eye witness or several?

I noticed he favored him somewhat but the real perp looked much younger in real life than the sketch.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

I'd like to know about this too. How much sleuthing have ya done to see if this is legit?

All I know is he must be legit. He gave all the details, even that a bond hearing was to occur at 3:00pm yesterday and then someone put up a link later on that showed that Byrd had been bonded out yesterday. I cant remember if a poster brought the link over here showing that he made bond though.

imoo

[Claycat]

Tulsa, I'm reposting your bridge map here! I thought it was a great map!

Find bridges with this interactive map.

http://usbridgemap.com/


Christine, Steven was legit! I can't expose my source to tell you how I know, but he was legit!

[YellowDog]

Here is the sketch Harvey Pratt did of the killer of Tammy Harjo:

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2008_Press_Releases/PR-2008-05-05__Sketch_Released_in_Okmulgee_Murder_Case.html

Compare it to the actual killer they caught because of his sketch:

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2008_Press_Releases/PR-2008-05-09_Okmulgee_Murder_Arrest.html

The face is the right width. Everything is in proportion. The lips are perfect. HP is the best in the biz and I trust that when we find finally see the POI...it will look almost exactly like him.

Byrd's face is rounded and much wider. So many things just don't match up to the sketch. The length, the width, and other things. Not him and is the reason they are not holding him. (Do you guys honestly believe everything you read on Topix? Who verified this Steve who proclaims to be LE?)


Sorry, but I would never recognize the suspect from that drawing. The shape of the face is different.

[evelyn24]

Was the information for the sketch given by one eye witness or several?

I noticed he favored him somewhat but the real perp looked much younger in real life than the sketch.

imoo

I agree, and in the sketch the face/forehead is wider, and the chin stronger.
imo
There is a resemblance....the same look (hair/eye color & hair style same skin tone etc), but noway the face is the same width and shape.
Again, this is the best you get with sketch artists...an over all look, but not 100% accuracy.

[GetSmart]

http://two.crimeshadows.com/poi.htm
Person of Interest Description:
American Indian --possibly part Caucasian
Approximately six feet tall, slender build
Black hair tied in a pony tail
Clothing at the time of sighting:
Blue or gray long-sleeve shirt
Faded jeans
Black baseball cap
--------------------------------------
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366464,00.html
Friday, June 13, 2008

He is described as a 6-foot American Indian man, possibly having European heritage, about 35 years old, with long black hair pulled into a ponytail.

[YellowDog]

Clip from http://newsok.com/article3256335


"Still no suspects
Three days later, the families of both of the victims don't know much more than they did that first night.
In a news conference Wednesday, Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agent Ben Rosser said investigators are trying to find children who talked to the girls often and knew their habits.

"We're talking to young people because the victims were young,” Rosser said. "We've got leads, and we're talking to their friends, but a lot of people are harder to find than others.”

Earlier Wednesday, investigators said two guns were used in the killings.

Jimmy Farrow said he'd been told that the first night.

"They said there was a high-powered weapon and a low-powered weapon,” Jimmy Farrow said. "One of the TV stations showed shell casings piled up in the road where it happened.”

I hate to beat a dead horse, but to me shell casings piled up in the road where it happened mean one of the guns was probably a shotgun.

[frogjustfrog]

Here is the sketch Harvey Pratt did of the killer of Tammy Harjo:

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2008_Press_Releases/PR-2008-05-05__Sketch_Released_in_Okmulgee_Murder_Case.html

Compare it to the actual killer they caught because of his sketch:

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2008_Press_Releases/PR-2008-05-09_Okmulgee_Murder_Arrest.html

The face is the right width. Everything is in proportion. The lips are perfect. HP is the best in the biz and I trust that when we find finally see the POI...it will look almost exactly like him.

Byrd's face is rounded and much wider. So many things just don't match up to the sketch. The length, the width, and other things. Not him and is the reason they are not holding him. (Do you guys honestly believe everything you read on Topix? Who verified this Steve who proclaims to be LE?)


The drawing and picture you provided dont look a bit alike if you ask me. The drawing looks like a much older man. sry
Again, the artist can only go by what someone remembers. I think Byrd and POI are almost identical. JMOAO

[xena]

I have a co-worker, who lives in the area that stated the day following the murders, "if it were me I would be looking close, very close for the suspects." I am not sure who she was referring to and if the statement implied that family, aquaintences, or neighbors were involved.
Also in reference to a post by Seriously Searching, You are kidding, Right? OSBI is not nor has ever been that politically correct!! This is Oklahoma.
OSBI may or may not be "politically incorrect". But as an Oklahoma resident I find that comment offensive. If it was not meant derogatory towards our state then my apologies. I personally feel that stepping out of the realm of "politically correct" is oftentimes commendable and this may have been SS's intended implication.

[GetSmart]

Clip from http://newsok.com/article3256335


"Still no suspects
Three days later, the families of both of the victims don't know much more than they did that first night.
Earlier Wednesday, investigators said two guns were used in the killings.

Jimmy Farrow said he'd been told that the first night.

"They said there was a high-powered weapon and a low-powered weapon,” Jimmy Farrow said. "One of the TV stations showed shell casings piled up in the road where it happened.”

I hate to beat a dead horse, but to me shell casings piled up in the road where it happened mean one of the guns was probably a shotgun.
----------------
The document you requested was not found.http://newsok.com/article3256335 (http://newsok.com/article3256335)
You may perform a search at the top of the page.
If you would like to report this error, please e

Wrong wrong wrong ...Automatic weapons spit out casings also. I know this because I go to the range every Sunday.

[frogjustfrog]

http://two.crimeshadows.com/poi.htm
Person of Interest Description:
American Indian --possibly part Caucasian
Approximately six feet tall, slender build
Black hair tied in a pony tail
Clothing at the time of sighting:
Blue or gray long-sleeve shirt
Faded jeans
Black baseball cap
--------------------------------------
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366464,00.html
Friday, June 13, 2008

He is described as a 6-foot American Indian man, possibly having European heritage, about 35 years old, with long black hair pulled into a ponytail.

A BLACK baseball hat? Just goes to show ya! See, the drawing shows a light colored one.

I tend to go back to and rely on what OSBI said at the beginning. All the rest of the reports seem kinda like that game where someone whispers something in someone's ear, then they in the next, and so on and so on down the line until nothing matches right. Ever notice that? :eek:

[Ruflossn]

Hello All~

Time to get caught up on the latest.
Hello Frog, Claycat, and GetSmart. I love that we are all on here at the same time.

:)

[Ruflossn]

Does anyone know why LE would release to the news that they are going to be releasing more info on Monday? Why not release the info today?

Maybe a random question, but, I am confused.

[GetSmart]

Hi yourself Ruflossn.. this is cool we are here !!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/13/okla.girls.shootings/ (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/13/okla.girls.shootings/)
6-13
Authorities released a sketch Friday of a "person of interest" in the shooting deaths of two Oklahoma schoolgirls
Witnesses described the man as an American Indian or possibly half-Caucasian with a black ponytail, about 6 feet tall and 35 years old. They said he was standing in front of a white single-cab pickup with chrome striping, possibly a Chevy or Ford model, with Oklahoma tags, Brown said in a press conference
------------------------------------

I have been all over & I am going to give up for now looking for that evasive hazel eyed description..

[Tom'sGirl]

Does anyone know why LE would release to the news that they are going to be releasing more info on Monday? Why not release the info today?

Maybe a random question, but, I am confused.
Nothing much is ever released in the media on a Friday, unless it's a break in the case, or something new that surfaced.

Mondays brings fresh interest to a case even if it's a tidbit. Weekends are usually very slow news days, and have less reading or viewing.

[YellowDog]

Clip from http://newsok.com/article3256335


"Still no suspects
Three days later, the families of both of the victims don't know much more than they did that first night.
Earlier Wednesday, investigators said two guns were used in the killings.

Jimmy Farrow said he'd been told that the first night.

"They said there was a high-powered weapon and a low-powered weapon,” Jimmy Farrow said. "One of the TV stations showed shell casings piled up in the road where it happened.”

I hate to beat a dead horse, but to me shell casings piled up in the road where it happened mean one of the guns was probably a shotgun.
----------------
The document you requested was not found.http://newsok.com/article3256335 (http://newsok.com/article3256335)
You may perform a search at the top of the page.
If you would like to report this error, please e

Wrong wrong wrong ...Automatic weapons spit out casings also. I know this because I go to the range every Sunday.

You mean shotgun shell casings and bullet casings are the same? I don't really know much about guns. I have a 410 shotgun in my closet that belongs to my son but the ammunition for that gun looks just like a bullet to me.

[YellowDog]

Does anyone know why LE would release to the news that they are going to be releasing more info on Monday? Why not release the info today?

Maybe a random question, but, I am confused.


Maybe they are going to make an arrest before then. Wouldn't that be nice?

[YellowDog]

Didn't they say they were going to release the 911 call?

[Ruflossn]

Nothing much is ever released in the media on a Friday, unless it's a break in the case, or something new that surfaced.

Mondays brings fresh interest to a case even if it's a tidbit. Weekends are usually very slow news days, and have less reading or viewing.

Thanks Tom'sGirl. The waiting is so hard. I was so bummed that the Mr. Byrd of yesterday did not prove to be more viable as a suspect.

[Ruflossn]

Didn't they say they were going to release the 911 call?

Yes, they said they were going to release a portion of the 911 call. I wonder what the advantage of that is?

[GetSmart]

I have a co-worker, who lives in the area that stated the day following the murders, "if it were me I would be looking close, very close for the suspects." I am not sure who she was referring to and if the statement implied that family, aquaintences, or neighbors were involved.
Also in reference to a post by Seriously Searching, You are kidding, Right? OSBI is not nor has ever been that politically correct!! This is Oklahoma.
OSBI may or may not be "politically incorrect". But as an Oklahoma resident I find that comment offensive. If it was not meant derogatory towards our state then my apologies. I personally feel that stepping out of the realm of "politically correct" is oftentimes commendable and this may have been SS's intended implication.


Ok don't beat me.. What do we really know about Uncle Joe ??
------------------
You mean shotgun shell casings and bullet casings are the same?
Well as in being expelled from weapon in away yes. But not the casing itself.

[Tom'sGirl]

Yes, they said they were going to release a portion of the 911 call. I wonder what the advantage of that is?
They'll probably release the part of a hysterical grief ridden grandpa calling in after finding the children................ maybe to help boost the emotions of others who hear it.

[Tom'sGirl]

Also in reference to a post by Seriously Searching, You are kidding, Right? OSBI is not nor has ever been that politically correct!! This is Oklahoma.
OSBI may or may not be "politically incorrect". But as an Oklahoma resident I find that comment offensive. If it was not meant derogatory towards our state then my apologies.
Don't be upset, you're new here but FYI, Seriously Searching is well within her right, she's a fifth generation Okie and loves her State of Oklahoma.

[YellowDog]

Ok don't beat me.. What do we really know about Uncle Joe ??
------------------
You mean shotgun shell casings and bullet casings are the same?
Well as in being expelled from weapon in away yes. But not the casing itself.


I'm glad you brought up Uncle Joe. I was trying to find a picture of him on here that I thought I saw once, but never could find it. Does anyone have a link to a picture of him?

[GetSmart]

YellowDog :
You mean shotgun shell casings and bullet casings are the same? I don't really know much about guns. I have a 410 shotgun in my closet that belongs to my son but the ammunition for that gun looks just like a bullet to me.

Check this pic out & see if it helps
http://i38.tinypic.com/33opncy.jpg

[YellowDog]

There has to be some reason to release a portion of the 911 call. Is there something in it that doesn't "jell"?

[Tom'sGirl]

I'm glad you brought up Uncle Joe. I was trying to find a picture of him on here that I thought I saw once, but never could find it. Does anyone have a link to a picture of him?
Are you speaking of Uncle Joe Mosher, if so, I have a couple of them or you can google his name.

[Ruflossn]

They'll probably release the part of a hysterical grief ridden grandpa calling in after finding the children................ maybe to help boost the emotions of others who hear it.

Tom'sGirl,
Thank-you for answering my question. I am new to this and sometimes I do not understand all the "behind the scenes" thought processes of LE. I certainly hope the 911 tape will help push the emotions of someone who can help LE get the break they need in this case.

Thanks again.

[YellowDog]

YellowDog :
You mean shotgun shell casings and bullet casings are the same? I don't really know much about guns. I have a 410 shotgun in my closet that belongs to my son but the ammunition for that gun looks just like a bullet to me.

Check this pic out & see if it helps
http://i38.tinypic.com/33opncy.jpg

I was thinking the shells to my son's 410 looked more like a brass bullet with a point on it. Is that possible or am I getting delerious over this?

[oceanblueeyes]

Clip from http://newsok.com/article3256335


"Still no suspects
Three days later, the families of both of the victims don't know much more than they did that first night.
In a news conference Wednesday, Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agent Ben Rosser said investigators are trying to find children who talked to the girls often and knew their habits.

"We're talking to young people because the victims were young,” Rosser said. "We've got leads, and we're talking to their friends, but a lot of people are harder to find than others.”

Earlier Wednesday, investigators said two guns were used in the killings.

Jimmy Farrow said he'd been told that the first night.

"They said there was a high-powered weapon and a low-powered weapon,” Jimmy Farrow said. "One of the TV stations showed shell casings piled up in the road where it happened.”

I hate to beat a dead horse, but to me shell casings piled up in the road where it happened mean one of the guns was probably a shotgun.

I think that was another misspeak by Farrow. A shotgun has a distinctive sound and what Mrs. Kelough described was not shotgun blasts but a weapon that was a semi automatic or automatic who was rapidly fired.

imoo

[Annie]

This article has a picture of Joe Mosher. It may be someone else you wanted a picture of.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_11_A1_hOSBIs543824

[YellowDog]

Are you speaking of Uncle Joe Mosher, if so, I have a couple of them or you can google his name.

Thanks, I found it.

[oceanblueeyes]

I was thinking the shells to my son's 410 looked more like a brass bullet with a point on it. Is that possible or am I getting delirious over this?

410 shotguns have shells not bullets.

It does have brass where the firing pin hits the shell to ignite gunpowder when firing but it is not pointed. When fired it explodes outward once it leaves the barrel spraying pellets toward the target. In a shotgun the shells do not eject but remains in the gun until they are removed.

imoo

[YellowDog]

This article has a picture of Joe Mosher. It may be someone else you wanted a picture of.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_11_A1_hOSBIs543824


That's not the picture or person I was looking for.

[GetSmart]

This article has a picture of Joe Mosher. It may be someone else you wanted a picture of.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_11_A1_hOSBIs543824

Guess what Annie This statement was also in the same article

Agents investigated a tip Wednesday that someone reported a pickup full of boys in the area at the same time of the killings.

"We contacted those individuals, and yes, they had a shotgun," Rosser said. "They told us they were down there shooting, just like they would have been on any Sunday. There's nothing to indicate that they are suspects."

[oceanblueeyes]

There has to be some reason to release a portion of the 911 call. Is there something in it that doesn't "jell"?

Why is that? Many times excerpts will be released then if and when there is a trial the entire 911 call will be heard.

I imagine they are hoping someone will have an ounce of decency and call LE and tell them what they know so that justice can be brought for these innocent victims.

imoo

[FlowerChild]

Clip from http://newsok.com/article3256335


"Still no suspects
Three days later, the families of both of the victims don't know much more than they did that first night.
In a news conference Wednesday, Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agent Ben Rosser said investigators are trying to find children who talked to the girls often and knew their habits.

"We're talking to young people because the victims were young,” Rosser said. "We've got leads, and we're talking to their friends, but a lot of people are harder to find than others.”

Earlier Wednesday, investigators said two guns were used in the killings.

Jimmy Farrow said he'd been told that the first night.

"They said there was a high-powered weapon and a low-powered weapon,” Jimmy Farrow said. "One of the TV stations showed shell casings piled up in the road where it happened.”

I hate to beat a dead horse, but to me shell casings piled up in the road where it happened mean one of the guns was probably a shotgun.
They found BULLET CASINGS not shotgun shells. There is a difference. Shotgun shells are not bullet casings - two totally different things - even the media at the scene saw the bullet casings. No-one saw shotgun shells and no-one heard a shotgun firing - and trust me, there is a distinctive difference between the sound of a shotgun and a handgun or even a rifle. Nothing else sounds like a shotgun.

And shotguns don't shoot bullets, they shoot "shot" - buckshot or birdshot. A shotgun wound is totally different from a bullet wound.
More info on shotguns vs handguns vs rifles and ammunition for each
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdshot#Birdshot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_(weaponry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_%28weaponry))

My Opinion

[YellowDog]

410 shotguns have shells not bullets.

It does have brass where the firing pin hits the shell to ignite gunpowder when firing but it is not pointed. When fired it explodes outward once it leaves the barrel spraying pellets toward the target. In a shotgun the shells do not eject but remains in the gun until they are removed.

imoo

Are there different types of loads for a 410? I'm almost sure these are metallic cased.

[frogjustfrog]

This article has a picture of Joe Mosher. It may be someone else you wanted a picture of.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_11_A1_hOSBIs543824

Uuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggg! I know that face too, just like I know Peter Placker's and Linda Placker's.
As I have said before, I havent lived there since 2000. Is anyone in here good enough a sluether to find out where Plackers lived before they lived in OKC? I think they moved BACK to the Bryant area from OKC.

[oceanblueeyes]

Are there different types of loads for a 410? I'm almost sure these are metallic cased.

I am not sure what you are asking, Yellow Dog.

Even though a 410s shell is smaller it is basically made like other shotgun shells. There is a brass metal cap on the end that will be closest to the firing pin but I have never seen a shotgun shell that is fully brass like a bullet casing is. Usually the rest of the shell is a hard plastic.

imoo

[GetSmart]

Yellow they have slugs.. google 410 ammo and click the image search maybe you will see what you have ??

I found this site from the FBI very detailed...& educational..

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/april2004/research/2004_02_research02.htm

Forensic Science Communications

Introduction
A primary element in the analysis of many shooting incidents is distance determination—the distance from the gun muzzle to the entry wound. The criteria most commonly used in this determination is the presence or absence of gunshot residue, the pattern diameter, and the type and distribution of gunshot residue. However, common protocols fail to consider the effect that hair may have upon the deposition of gunshot residue. There have been recent cases in which the absence of gunshot residue on the scalp was classified as evidence of a distant-range gunshot when other evidence supported a close-range gunshot.
In this manuscript, gunshot residue is defined as visible soot deposit particles, not the usual meaning of chemically or instrumentally detected primer and propellant residues.

[oceanblueeyes]

Are there different types of loads for a 410? I'm almost sure these are metallic cased.

Do they look like this?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=104498655#PIC

[Claycat]

You know how the woman who heard the gun shots is named Kelough? Well, it seems other people from the area, who are also named Kelough and some who are related to them have records of assault with dangerous weapons and drug charges.

For instance, someone told me that this young man is related to the Keloughs and is always in trouble. I wonder if they have checked these people out?

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=512524&offender_book_id=302018

[frogjustfrog]

Does anyone know why LE would release to the news that they are going to be releasing more info on Monday? Why not release the info today?

Maybe a random question, but, I am confused.

Hi Floss
I imagine they are waiting til monday to hold the conference because this is when the Courthouse will be open. It is otherwise closed for the weekend.
frog:froggie:

[GetSmart]

Does any of Locals know Dan.. if so maybe he might have some insight or info..
http://www.kjrh.com/content/aboutus/bios/story.aspx?content_id=dca67bff-1ca8-45c2-8e2c-06f2655c1180

Born in Oklahoma and raised in the small town of Weleetka, Oklahoma. Married his high school sweetheart and his been married for over 29 years with two wonderful children.
After high school Dan worked in radio in Duncan then in Lawton. Dan studied meteorology at the University of Oklahoma and completed his Bachelors of Science degree in meteorology at Mississippi State University. Dan has also received a Bachelors of Arts degree in communication from the University of Central Oklahoma.
He has been a meteorologist in Oklahoma for over 28 years.


A poster on topix mentioned this..

Simply Sleuthing wrote:
Anyone bother looking into a Threlkeld"/"Placker " connection?
Peter/Vicky Placker= Arvey Henry Placker.
Arvey Placker= Candice D. Threlkeld aka Candice D. Placker.
Candice D. Threlkeld Placker= Margaret Elizabeth Threlkeld.
Margaret Elizabeth Threlkeld=Daniel Thomas Threlkeld.

[frogjustfrog]

Does any of Locals know Dan.. if so maybe he might have some insight or info..
http://www.kjrh.com/content/aboutus/bios/story.aspx?content_id=dca67bff-1ca8-45c2-8e2c-06f2655c1180

Born in Oklahoma and raised in the small town of Weleetka, Oklahoma. Married his high school sweetheart and his been married for over 29 years with two wonderful children.
After high school Dan worked in radio in Duncan then in Lawton. Dan studied meteorology at the University of Oklahoma and completed his Bachelors of Science degree in meteorology at Mississippi State University. Dan has also received a Bachelors of Arts degree in communication from the University of Central Oklahoma.
He has been a meteorologist in Oklahoma for over 28 years.


A poster on topix mentioned this..

Simply Sleuthing wrote:
Anyone bother looking into a Threlkeld"/"Placker " connection?
Peter/Vicky Placker= Arvey Henry Placker.
Arvey Placker= Candice D. Threlkeld aka Candice D. Placker.
Candice D. Threlkeld Placker= Margaret Elizabeth Threlkeld.
Margaret Elizabeth Threlkeld=Daniel Thomas Threlkeld.

I'm not even sure what the = signs mean! :crazy:

[YellowDog]

Yellow they have slugs.. google 410 ammo and click the image search maybe you will see what you have ??

I found this site from the FBI very detailed...& educational..

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/april2004/research/2004_02_research02.htm

Forensic Science Communications

Introduction
A primary element in the analysis of many shooting incidents is distance determination—the distance from the gun muzzle to the entry wound. The criteria most commonly used in this determination is the presence or absence of gunshot residue, the pattern diameter, and the type and distribution of gunshot residue. However, common protocols fail to consider the effect that hair may have upon the deposition of gunshot residue. There have been recent cases in which the absence of gunshot residue on the scalp was classified as evidence of a distant-range gunshot when other evidence supported a close-range gunshot.
In this manuscript, gunshot residue is defined as visible soot deposit particles, not the usual meaning of chemically or instrumentally detected primer and propellant residues.


That was interesting. Thanks. Maybe they are slugs.

[GetSmart]

Frog I do not know..I am thinking it was used instead of a dash or shows the connection

[SeriouslySearching]

Was the information for the sketch given by one eye witness or several?

I noticed he favored him somewhat but the real perp looked much younger in real life than the sketch.

imooThe sketch was given by several. Yes, he did turn out to be younger, but the actual details were right on the money. The witnesses misjudged his age, imo.

[SeriouslySearching]

LOL So Topix is now saying that Dan Threlkeld is related to the case. Oh, Spare me the details please.

[frogjustfrog]

Frog I do not know..I am thinking it was used instead of a dash or shows the connection
If that's the case, then it doesnt make alot of sense to me. Because Petra and Arvie Placker is Peter Plackers parents.

still wondering if they lived in that area before OKC. Almost sure of it. Byrd lived in area, then OKC. almost sure of it, even tho they released him, this is still in my mind. Remember, I lived around there for about 40 years.

[YellowDog]

Do they look like this?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=104498655#PIC


Nope, they don't look like those.

[YellowDog]

After looking at some of those photos of gunshot wounds that Get Smart linked me to, I don't think I'll ever load it up. They looked horrible and I might shoot my big toe off.

[YellowDog]

Are any of either of the victims family members NA? The reason I ask is because when I first took an interest in this case, I remember seeing a photo of someone connected in some way to one of the families that I thought looked a lot like the composite drawing of the POI but I can't for the life of me remember who it was. I remember thinking.....maybe that's him.

[GetSmart]

Yellow maybe it was in either one of the myspace pages or the inmate pics of the crew

[Tom'sGirl]

You know how the woman who heard the gun shots is named Kelough? Well, it seems other people from the area, who are also named Kelough and some who are related to them have records of assault with dangerous weapons and drug charges.
That was brought up several threads back, if you care to read http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2312613&postcount=388

[YellowDog]

It's possible.

I finally found a shotgun shell that looks like the ones for this gun.

http://conzhandmade4u.com/Shell_Casing_Wind_Chime.html

Check out the 20" Blue Party Shell Casing Windchime and you'll see it in the center of that windchime. Who would ever think of making winchimes out of shell casings?

[YellowDog]

Get Smart, you may have hit a chord. It quite possibly was a picture on one of those My Space websites because it was a while back when the case was pretty fresh.

[GetSmart]

It's possible.

I finally found a shotgun shell that looks like the ones for this gun.

http://conzhandmade4u.com/Shell_Casing_Wind_Chime.html

Check out the 20" Blue Party Shell Casing Windchime and you'll see it in the center of that windchime. Who would ever think of making winchimes out of shell casings?


no lie ..Kool site thanks I want one..geez I just had a thought though, the way these crooks are stealing anything & even things that are nailed down for scrap They would probably get ripped off.

Know i see what you are saying.. I will ask hubby

[Claycat]

That was brought up several threads back, if you care to read http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2312613&postcount=388

I just got back from looking, Tom'sGirl, but thanks for posting it. That way I can go back and look again. PoorPaula had posted it.

The thing is, this guy Dillon Harris is supposed to be related to them.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=512524&offender_book_id=302018

[Tom'sGirl]

I just got back from looking, Tom'sGirl, but thanks for posting it. That way I can go back and look again. PoorPaula had posted it.

The thing is, this guy Dillon Harris is supposed to be related to them.
Never heard of him until now.

[SeriouslySearching]

Don't be upset, you're new here but FYI, Seriously Searching is well within her right, she's a fifth generation Okie and loves her State of Oklahoma.Actually, seventh...but who is counting?! LOL I do love my State of Oklahoma! Thanks, TG!! Hugs~

My comment wasn't a slam. We have some very straight speaking people here who don't play Politically Correct BS games! They have never been afraid to say when someone was white, caucasion, or even green if it is what they believe they are looking for instead of "European". When I heard it, I was surprised actually. It is not a term they use or that I have EVER heard in any investigation by OK LE or OSBI. So there must be more to it.

[GetSmart]

I have mentioned this before but could remember where I read or heard it..
The road is frequently used by farmers and ranchers in the area

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080611_12_A1_Rwrsof551521

[SeriouslySearching]

There were more people driving down that road on that Sunday than were driving down my street at the same time...and I live in the city! Let's see, you have at least 6 witnesses, one POI, Skyla's mother, and the boys in the truck. In the small town where I came from that would be considered a party!

Then they tell us how remote and how isolated this road is. Sorry, but it sounds fairly busy to me to have all those people on that road in 30 minutes time.

[SeriouslySearching]

Has this been posted yet?

Authorities have scheduled a Monday morning news conference concerning the murder of two girls just outside of Weleetka in early June.

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation says new information concerning the case in the deaths of 11-year old Skyla Whitaker and 13-year old Taylor Placker will be released at that time.

Officials say they also plan to release an excerpt of a 911 call made by a family member of one of the girls' moments after they were discovered along a county road.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8698948 (Bolded by me)

[GetSmart]

You are right about that! I feel the same way, I live in a subdivison & it doesn't seem like we have that much traffic either.

[frogjustfrog]

There were more people driving down that road on that Sunday than were driving down my street at the same time...and I live in the city! Let's see, you have at least 6 witnesses, one POI, Skyla's mother, and the boys in the truck. In the small town where I came from that would be considered a party!

Then they tell us how remote and how isolated this road is. Sorry, but it sounds fairly busy to me to have all those people on that road in 30 minutes time.

It really is remote and isolated to anyone who doesnt know the area, but I understand that at one time, that road was once the main way to drive from Weleetka into Henryetta, although we never went that way. I guess it is just well driven by locals? But there isnt any houses on it, per se, so it must just be used mostly by farmers and ranchers, but it's so densely overgrown with vegetation most places, that I dont see much room to farm. Maybe oil and gas wells?

[frogjustfrog]

If you look on Mapquest, and zoom in, at the first of the road where you turn south to go towards the bridge, there is a lightened area just on the west. That is some kind of powerplant or something. And there is an Indian Cemetary just inside that area. Cant see it on mpaquest.

Then south of Plackers a bit, there is a road that turns to the West. That a few years back was a community the kids called Flamesville. They used to go out there at night and ring the church bell and run. It was said satan worshipers lived there, but I dont really think it was true. Guess it couldve been.

[SeriouslySearching]

Has this been posted yet?

Authorities have scheduled a Monday morning news conference concerning the murder of two girls just outside of Weleetka in early June.

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation says new information concerning the case in the deaths of 11-year old Skyla Whitaker and 13-year old Taylor Placker will be released at that time.

Officials say they also plan to release an excerpt of a 911 call made by a family member of one of the girls' moments after they were discovered along a county road.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8698948 (Bolded by me)Hello? (knocking on the mic) Is this thing on? Did you guys see this?!

WTH?! What is on that call that obviously Peter says that OSBI now finds neccessary to report to the public?! I find this to be big since they said they would not be releasing it.

[frogjustfrog]

you have to put mapquest on aerial view to see this. sry


If you look on Mapquest, and zoom in, at the first of the road where you turn south to go towards the bridge, there is a lightened area just on the EAST. That is some kind of powerplant or something. And there is an Indian Cemetary just inside that area. Cant see it on mpaquest.

Then south of Plackers a bit, there is a road that turns to the West. That a few years back was a community the kids called Flamesville. They used to go out there at night and ring the church bell and run. It was said satan worshipers lived there, but I dont really think it was true. Guess it couldve been.


I sure would like to be at that conference!

[frogjustfrog]

Hello? (knocking on the mic) Is this thing on? Did you guys see this?!

WTH?! What is on that call that obviously Peter says that OSBI now finds neccessary to report to the public?! I find this to be big since they said they would not be releasing it.


Saw it earlier. Would love to be there!

[SeriouslySearching]

So you guys already saw it? I was at work all day and missed it.

Why does this sound like Peter may have been involved here?! I can't believe you guys are talking about the road and not about this!

[frogjustfrog]

Hello? (knocking on the mic) Is this thing on? Did you guys see this?!

WTH?! What is on that call that obviously Peter says that OSBI now finds neccessary to report to the public?! I find this to be big since they said they would not be releasing it.

They are only going to release part of the 911 call is what I understood.

[frogjustfrog]

Hello? (knocking on the mic) Is this thing on? Did you guys see this?!

WTH?! What is on that call that obviously Peter says that OSBI now finds neccessary to report to the public?! I find this to be big since they said they would not be releasing it.

So you guys already saw it? I was at work all day and missed it.

Why does this sound like Peter may have been involved here?! I can't believe you guys are talking about the road and not about this!

It hasn't really been the topic for discussion. Bullets have been. lol :bang:

[SeriouslySearching]

:confused: The OSBI announces a presser (to begin with...they have refused to say a word now for how long?) and do it so that people have all weekend to prepare (meaning national media given time to get their crews in place) and they now say they are going to release what they believe to be a CRITICAL part of the 911 call we can only assume to be from Peter...and you guys are talking hypothetical bullets?! :bang:

[frogjustfrog]

Dang, it's late! I will see you all tomorrow. Sleep well and dream of sweet things. (like chocolate!)

[frogjustfrog]

:confused: The OSBI announces a presser (to begin with...they have refused to say a word now for how long?) and do it so that people have all weekend to prepare (meaning national media given time to get their crews in place) and they now say they are going to release what they believe to be a CRITICAL part of the 911 call we can only assume to be from Peter...and you guys are talking hypothetical bullets?! :bang:
uh huh they were. lol
looks like they are all gone now.

[SeriouslySearching]

Wow! You cannot imagine how shocked I am right now.

[TGIRecovered]

:confused: The OSBI announces a presser (to begin with...they have refused to say a word now for how long?) and do it so that people have all weekend to prepare (meaning national media given time to get their crews in place) and they now say they are going to release what they believe to be a CRITICAL part of the 911 call we can only assume to be from Peter...and you guys are talking hypothetical bullets?! :bang:

I can't believe they announce new info and now we have to wait until MONDAY to hear what it is!

Thanks for posting about it SS. I may have gotten here late tonight, but I won't ignore your news!

Susan

[frogjustfrog]

I just imagine you are! Sry, I didnt know you didnt know.
I just saw on that site, that they also auctioned off a guitar to raise money. The stars at Oklahoma's Country Fever did it. I guess news gets by that we dont know of? Cuz i never heard that mentioned either

[SeriouslySearching]

I can't believe they announce new info and now we have to wait until MONDAY to hear what it is!

Thanks for posting about it SS. I may have gotten here late tonight, but I won't ignore your news!

SusanThanks, Susan and Frog! I am just dumbfounded.

It gives me chills actually. I think it sounds like Peter may be responsible. I do hope I am wrong, but why release even part of his call?! Did he make an incriminating statement during that call? What other reasons could there be?! I can't think of any off hand. Anyone else?

[TGIRecovered]

Thanks, Susan and Frog! I am just dumbfounded.

It gives me chills actually. I think it sounds like Peter may be responsible. I do hope I am wrong, but why release even part of his call?!

Speculation only!:

What about Ponytail dude? Is he connected with Peter in some way? Did the girls see something Peter was doing with Ponytail and threaten to tell? How horrible would it have to be, if it was so serious that Peter would kill those girls right on the spot, or cover for someone who did?

Surely not. Say it isn't so! Wahhh, I don't want to wait 'til Monday!

[SeriouslySearching]

I do think the only reason they are waiting until Monday is to allow the media to get into place. Why announce a presser before the weekend? They could have just waited until Sunday night.

I don't like even thinking Peter could be involved in this, but I am sitting here trying to think of anything that he could have said on that tape that would make them feel it was neccessary now to release it.

Did Peter see the gunman? Was it Peter that gave LE the description of the POI?

Was this even Peter's call to 911 they are referencing? They didn't say that. They only said a "family member". Since we knew that Peter called...why didn't they just say it that way? Could it have been Skyla's mother who made this particular call?! She did arrive on the scene soon after the girls were found by Peter.

Officials say they also plan to release an excerpt of a 911 call made by a family member of one of the girls' moments after they were discovered along a county road.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8698948 (Bolded by me)

[GetSmart]

Charges on Joe Placker:

http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...er=&icitation= (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp?query=true&srch=0&web=true&db=all&icasetype=&iDATEL=&iDATEH=&iCLOSEDL=&iCLOSEDH=&number=&iLast=Placker&iFirst=Joe&iMiddle=&iID=&iDOBL=&iDOBH=&SearchType=0&iDCPT=&iDCType=0&iYear=&iNumber=&icitation=)


here I am still searching Joe & now this!!

[SeriouslySearching]

GS, what do you think about the presser and the 911 call?

[GetSmart]

I am stuck on stupid..I still think the bandidos connection is big too.

Remember they did arrest Joe right after on charges & let him go..

[SeriouslySearching]

What could that have to do with the 911 call tho?

[GetSmart]

I think something was said in a panic..remember when we were all talking about "They killed them" or something like that, & then passed it off as a figure of speach

[SeriouslySearching]

Ooooo...yes, you are right. I wonder if you could hear motocycles in the background during that call?

[GetSmart]

Hell SS you might have it as far as peter seeing something

[GetSmart]

Oh Oh maybe dna came back

[SeriouslySearching]

But why would they wait to release that?! Makes no sense.

[SeriouslySearching]

:eek: Maybe. Oh Oh maybe dna came back

[GetSmart]

You don't think the girls tried to call 911 no they are the vic not family

[SeriouslySearching]

No, because it clearly states moments after the girls were found.

[GetSmart]

I have got to go to bed.. but remember they were going to release the tape at one point then the family asked them not to, maybe it took them this long to clean up the tape , or tune into background noise,
SS this is something ..
talk to you guys tomorrow.

[RoseRed]

Thanks, Susan and Frog! I am just dumbfounded.

It gives me chills actually. I think it sounds like Peter may be responsible. I do hope I am wrong, but why release even part of his call?! Did he make an incriminating statement during that call? What other reasons could there be?! I can't think of any off hand. Anyone else?

Why do you think that? It is not a chilling to me but does mean to me they are stumped and hope by releasing some part of the tape someone will give them new info. That is exactly what happen here in the Tinley Park , Lane Bryant killings which is still not solved. They did not release any of the 911 tape for a very long time and in my opinion it means they are stalled. They also could have just gotten some forensic info back by now.
I really hate to say this but I think this will become an unsolved cold case just like the Tinly, Lane Byant killings. :frown:

[SeriouslySearching]

They said they have new information. It doesn't sound like they are stumped to me! They would not have called a major presser if they were only asking for help, imo. They have news.

[GetSmart]

OKEMAH, Okla. -- An OSBI spokeswoman said Monday that her office would not be releasing an "extremely emotional" 911 call because agents don't believe it will advance their efforts to find whoever killed two girls in Okfuskee County on June 8.
Agents Decline To Release 911 Call In Weleetka Killings
http://www.koco.com/news/16623209/detail.html

[GetSmart]

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=393&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&SearchMode=Basic&first_name=*&last_name=Paschal&SearchAll=ALL

these are all Paschal

560185
AARON PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=560185&offender_book_id=336108%20) White Male
Northeast Oklahoma Corr. Center, Vinita 417504 AUSSIE L PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=417504&offender_book_id=233548%20) American Indian Male
Charles E. 'Bill' Johnson Corr. Center, Alva 148237 CHARLES E PASCHAL JR (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=148237&offender_book_id=48736%20) White Male
INACTIVE 234788 HOWARD D PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=234788&offender_book_id=126164%20) White Male
INACTIVE 573069 JAMES T PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=573069&offender_book_id=346914%20) White Male
Tulsa County District, Tulsa 138783 JIMMY C PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=138783&offender_book_id=40045%20) White Male
INACTIVE 262832 JOE L PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=262832&offender_book_id=153307%20) White Male
INACTIVE 90960 JOE L PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=90960&offender_book_id=4181%20) White Male
Central District - Santa Fe Office, Oklahoma City 131291 JOHN E PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=131291&offender_book_id=33710%20) White Male
Joseph Harp Correctional Center, Lexington 535432 MELISSA PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=535432&offender_book_id=318411%20) American Indian Female
Southeast District Office, Mcalester 137240 PAUL L PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=137240&offender_book_id=269511%20) White Male
INACTIVE 228882 PRESTON R PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=228882&offender_book_id=120430%20) White Male
INACTIVE 210552 ROBERT E PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=210552&offender_book_id=102794%20) White Male
INACTIVE 471225 SHANE M PASCHAL (http://www.websleuths.com/pls/portal30/url/page/off_LOOKUP_DETAIL?doc_num=471225&offender_book_id=275064%20) American Indian Male
Central District - Santa Fe Office, Oklahoma City

[SeriouslySearching]

OKEMAH, Okla. -- An OSBI spokeswoman said Monday that her office would not be releasing an "extremely emotional" 911 call because agents don't believe it will advance their efforts to find whoever killed two girls in Okfuskee County on June 8.
Agents Decline To Release 911 Call In Weleetka Killings
http://www.koco.com/news/16623209/detail.htmlExactly!! What changed?

[SeriouslySearching]

Do we know this guy? Tony C. Paschal? What a rap sheet! He was paroled 5-19-08.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=96494&offender_book_id=7634

[RoseRed]

Exactly!! What changed?

LE have had time to get some of the forensic info back.
The parents/grandparents have has over a month to grieve.
Perhaps to squash some of the child abuse rumors pertaining to the family.

I do know here that did call pressers just to release the sketch, then the tape, kept too much info to themselves. So we will have to wait and see but I for one do not suspect PP of any involvement in this.

edited for spelling

[SeriouslySearching]

OK, so the new information could be the forensic results. True. It doesn't explain what could be on the 911 tape. You think they just want people to hear how distraught Peter was? I don't know.

[RoseRed]

OK, so the new information could be the forensic results. True. It doesn't explain what could be on the 911 tape. You think they just want people to hear how distraught Peter was? I don't know.

Yes, it keeps the case alive and encourages new tips. I also noticed they said the call was placed " moments " after the bodies were found. Not 10 or 20 minutes like people were trying to imply.

[poco]

Yes, it keeps the case alive and encourages new tips. I also noticed they said the call was placed " moments " after the bodies were found. Not 10 or 20 minutes like people were trying to imply.

This case breaks my heart.... Please God, let them find who did this!!!

[oceanblueeyes]

:confused: The OSBI announces a presser (to begin with...they have refused to say a word now for how long?) and do it so that people have all weekend to prepare (meaning national media given time to get their crews in place) and they now say they are going to release what they believe to be a CRITICAL part of the 911 call we can only assume to be from Peter...and you guys are talking hypothetical bullets?! :bang:

I am sure, as always the press has pressed the issue of public information. They do it in every case so this one would not be any different imo. So OSBI is going to release an excerpt of the 911 call.

Maybe I am just not getting how this is some big news because I have seen other cases where LE did not want to release 911 calls especially if perp was still at large and then rescinded partially and put out an excerpt.

In fact when the 911 call was made by Daniel Horowitz when he found his wife murdered it has never been released. Not even in the trial with the DA wanting it in. The Judge ruled it was way too emotional and would prejudice Dyleski from getting a fair trial.

I think that maybe they are hoping it brings someone out of hiding that is protecting this scumbag once they hear the emotional pain this has caused the families.

imoo

[Albert18]

I think RoseRed has it right. They are stumped, stalled, dead in the water. This press conference may be nothing more than an attempt to give the public the impression they are doing something and have accomplished something.

[oceanblueeyes]

OK, so the new information could be the forensic results. True. It doesn't explain what could be on the 911 tape. You think they just want people to hear how distraught Peter was? I don't know.

At first from what I recall they said they would be discussing the new forensic tests that they have used in this particular case. Must be really high tech then they later said they would be releasing an excerpt of the 911 call. They may have talked with the family on just what part they are going to release and explain to them why they think it may help the case.

Anyway I hope it does.

imoo

[Albert18]

I have a co-worker, who lives in the area that stated the day following the murders, "if it were me I would be looking close, very close for the suspects." I am not sure who she was referring to and if the statement implied that family, aquaintences, or neighbors were involved....

I think this comment has a lot of merit.

I still think they need to stop worrying about DNA and worry about people relationships. This wasn't a robbery gone bad like in the Lane Bryant killings. There is a chance it was a failed abduction but I think there is a greater chance it involved a relationship and that can only be figured out by sidling up to people and talking. You can't treat the public with disdain and sidle at the same time. Can't be done.

[Claycat]

Hello? (knocking on the mic) Is this thing on? Did you guys see this?!

WTH?! What is on that call that obviously Peter says that OSBI now finds neccessary to report to the public?! I find this to be big since they said they would not be releasing it.

Hi SS! Yes, we saw it! We are all anxious to hear if there is anything significant that they have discovered. I'm doubtful, since they aren't doing it until Monday.

Thanks!

[oceanblueeyes]

I think this comment has a lot of merit.

I still think they need to stop worrying about DNA and worry about people relationships. This wasn't a robbery gone bad like in the Lane Bryant killings. There is a chance it was a failed abduction but I think there is a greater chance it involved a relationship and that can only be figured out by sidling up to people and talking. You can't treat the public with disdain and sidle at the same time. Can't be done.

I don't think OSBI would treat this case any different than they investigate all cases and that is starting from the inside first and then widening out. The first thing LE does is investigates anyone who closely or even remotely had a relationship with the victims.

OSBI has commented several times that they have interviewed 100s in this case. I don't think they have been lax at all but are continually still working hard to interview anyone and everyone they can possibly find that will help them solve this case. Just tracking down 450+ leads can be a daunting, time consuming task. I don't think they have let any grass grow under their feet from the moment this crime was known to them.

If they come out again and say they need the public's help then that shows me they desperately want someone to have an ounce of compassion for the situation, hoping that one vital tip will bring them closer to the POI and closer to resolving this case.

I am sure they are bombarded daily by the local are press reporters and it will be very interesting to know what all sophisticated technology they have used in trying to solve this case. It also shows they have been busy working and going forward.

Maybe the release and the information will be put out there like when they released certain things before when they said they wanted the killer to think about just what it means.

imoo

[YellowDog]

It will be interesting. Maybe there are some flaws in the timeline between the various so-called witnesses.

[Mysterylover]

Thanks, Susan and Frog! I am just dumbfounded.

It gives me chills actually.
I think it sounds like Peter may be responsible.

I do hope I am wrong, but why release even part of his call?! Did he make an incriminating statement during that call?

What other reasons could there be?! I can't think of any off hand. Anyone else?

Has anyone considered, this POI possibly meet or came to see P. and they had a very heated argument and the POI shot the girls when leaving due to what was said in the argument?....thus the 20 minute delay....jmo

[Mysterylover]

YellowDog :
You mean shotgun shell casings and bullet casings are the same? I don't really know much about guns. I have a 410 shotgun in my closet that belongs to my son but the ammunition for that gun looks just like a bullet to me.

Check this pic out & see if it helps
http://i38.tinypic.com/33opncy.jpg

Would ALL these casings be considered "high power"? What would LE consider HIGH POWER?

.9mm automatic shells and shotgun shells?

does a "slug" in a shotgun shell look the same and considered high power?

What is considered LOW power? other than a .22?

I assume a deer rifle like a 30.06 would be a high powered gun also.

Does all these shells "eject" out of the gun while firing?...jmo

[oceanblueeyes]

Has anyone considered, this POI possibly meet or came to see P. and they had a very heated argument and the POI shot the girls when leaving due to what was said in the argument?....thus the 20 minute delay....jmo

If the Plackers just had someone at their home that was threatening I just cant fathom them not telling LE about that right away.

And in this neighborhood it seems a lot of people notices the going ons on that road. No one has mentioned that the Plackers had anyone at their home before or even when the girls left for their walk.

I think that the call was not made right away because Mr. Placker had two very important things happening almost simultaneously, to deal with. He had to deal with the horrible reality of who lay in that ditch murdered and almost immediately he had to try to comfort Skyla's mother and try to protect her from what he had seen, that he knew he would never forget.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Would ALL these casings be considered "high power"?
What is considered LOW power? other than a .22?

The 410 is a low power.

Althoough any of them can be lethal especially if fired at close range.

[Beyond Belief]

Wondering: if more description of the crime scene was given in the 911 phone call than LE wants known to the public.

[RoseRed]

Has anyone considered, this POI possibly meet or came to see P. and they had a very heated argument and the POI shot the girls when leaving due to what was said in the argument?....thus the 20 minute delay....jmo

I am not sure there was a 20 minute time delay. That has not been stated by LE.

[Claycat]

Look at the post of Elizabeth at the top of this page. She is talking about the Keloughs and the Plackers. It is very interesting info. I am providing the link, because you all said not to post the comments.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p326#lastPost

[little726]

"I can't describe coming up on it," Peter Placker said, sobbing uncontrollably, as he tried to remember walking up on the scene, only about one-quarter mile from his house. "I done it once and I can't do it again."

I don't know about anyone else, but this statement by P. Placker, has stuck in my head since day "1". I realize it must have been an awful thing for him to see, but you don't forget something like this.

And WHY dosen't he want to do it again, even though he said he couldn't? A few nights later he was talking to Greta, on; ON THE RECORD.

I still have my suspicions about P.Placker.

[athy]

the press conference could be for giving the new info...the giving out the excert of the 911 call could just sorta be thrown in there at same time because near the beginning so many were complaining, speculating, curious, suspicous because they WEREN'T playing the 911 call. and it seems others are now doing the same thing because they are going to play an excert.

[evelyn24]

There really isn't much to say about the presser, SS.
We discussed it some on the previous thread before you came on board last night.
However, until the actual presser happens, what's to say about it?

The media said the press conference was being held in order for the OSBI to give more details/information about the case, and to me that means what it says. I doubt there will be breaking news taking place on Monday.
The OSBI is not getting anywhere in finding the POI, and maybe new information will smoke him out...or at least have someone around him come foreword.
The 911 tape is a good way to get sympathy for the families and quilt someone into turning in the poi, and it's also a good way of getting a lot of national and local media attention back on the case.

[legallee]

"I can't describe coming up on it," Peter Placker said, sobbing uncontrollably, as he tried to remember walking up on the scene, only about one-quarter mile from his house. "I done it once and I can't do it again."

I don't know about anyone else, but this statement by P. Placker, has stuck in my head since day "1". I realize it must have been an awful thing for him to see, but you don't forget something like this.

And WHY dosen't he want to do it again, even though he said he couldn't? A few nights later he was talking to Greta, on; ON THE RECORD.

I still have my suspicions about P.Placker.

If you came upon your daughter dead from multiple gunshots would you wanna describe the scene over and over!? I'm sure he has told it many times to the Police. That has got to be one of the most painful things to ever see.. I'd be damned if I'd wanna tell the media over and over about it.
:rolleyes:

[legallee]

Look at the post of Elizabeth at the top of this page. She is talking about the Keloughs and the Plackers. It is very interesting info. I am providing the link, because you all said not to post the comments.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p326#lastPost



read Elizabeth Drumrins comments as well: Oh wow this is kinda scary!

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p325#c7037

[Claycat]

Legallee, thanks for posting this one also! I think it is the same poster. I'm hoping she will come back!


read Elizabeth Drumrins comments as well: Oh wow this is kinda scary!

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p325#c7037

[philamena]

"I can't describe coming up on it," Peter Placker said, sobbing uncontrollably, as he tried to remember walking up on the scene, only about one-quarter mile from his house. "I done it once and I can't do it again."
SNIP.

I still have my suspicions about P.Placker.

little,
I said the same thing when the girls were murdered.
I think there is a change a family member killed the girls. IMO, a stranger caught doing 'something' by the girls would have shot them once and ran or drove off.
These girls were shot numerous times, with vengeance.

[Albert18]

...These girls were shot numerous times, with vengeance.

I think over time the crime becomes too familiar to us and we tend to forget the intial shock.

This was an audacious crime. In fact it probably requires a word stronger than audacious. That has to mean something. But it apparently hasn't for 6 weeks now.

[little726]

If you came upon your daughter dead from multiple gunshots would you wanna describe the scene over and over!? I'm sure he has told it many times to the Police. That has got to be one of the most painful things to ever see.. I'd be damned if I'd wanna tell the media over and over about it.
:rolleyes:

This is only MY opinion......which we ALL have.

[SeriouslySearching]

Monday can't come soon enough. (Can't believe I said that!) While you guys could be right and it is just from the pressure being put on OSBI to give the public "something" to show they are working on it, I guess I am hoping it is much more.

I have seen in several other cases, when they schedule a presser so far in advance...it is usually to allow the media (including national media) to be able to get people in place to report it. If they were just asking for help, I think they would simply issue a press release instead of doing it this way...but that is just me. I still think we are going to learn a lot from the presser.

[LifeSaver]

Yeah, We'll all see Jessica Brown show just how desperate the OSBI are releasing the 911 call, playing on familes, and communites emotions, pretty pathetic.

[Mysterylover]

I think over time the crime becomes too familiar to us and we tend to forget the intial shock.

This was an audacious crime.
In fact it probably requires a word stronger than audacious.

That has to mean something. But it apparently hasn't for 6 weeks now......

Albert...I like all your good, common sense posts, and usually agree.

YES, the over-kill does mean something and should be a clue to the "experts"..
imo a stranger would not have emptied one gun on the girls and then took the time to get the other gun and shoot them some more....that alone should narrow the direction of the killer....imo

[Mysterylover]

little,
I said the same thing when the girls were murdered.

I think there is a chance a family member killed the girls.

IMO, a stranger caught doing 'something' by the girls would have shot them once and ran or drove off.

These girls were shot numerous times, with vengeance...


What IF the 1 person who saw the girls that Sunday, is mistaken, and saw them on Saturday instead?

How would that change this whole case?...just thinking outside the box

[oceanblueeyes]

If you came upon your daughter dead from multiple gunshots would you wanna describe the scene over and over!? I'm sure he has told it many times to the Police. That has got to be one of the most painful things to ever see.. I'd be damned if I'd wanna tell the media over and over about it.
:rolleyes:

I guess it is one's perceptions and how they decipher the things they hear.

These words of Peter Placker were some of the most haunting words I have ever heard said.

I could feel his pain, knowing he had to go into great detail with LE on what he saw, that he never, ever in a million years wanted to see and how that was so difficult for him yet he knew he must do so.

But to go through that horrible nightmare again and go to that horrible place in his mind just to appease the media's curiosity he just couldn't go back there to that time and place.

I think we will be able to tell some of the evidence they may have just by the testing technology done if Brown describes some of the techniques used.

I don't think the PC is big news but it does let people in OK at least know that OSBI is still working diligently on this case.

imoo

[FlowerChild]

I got this from my contact in Weleetka - he says it is 2nd hand info but that he got it directly from a close friend of Rose Whitaker (Skyla's Mom)

Rose spoke to SKYLA shortly before she was killed on SKYLA's CELL PHONE. She told Skyla to get her things ready, she was on her way to get her.

This brings up more questions

What time was the call when Rose spoke with Skyla? (we know they were still alive at that time)

Did Rose tell Skyla a TIME when she would arrive? Like 5:30PM

Where was Skyla when Rose called her? At the Plackers or walking?

Was this call at around 4:30 when Skyla and Taylor went for their walk - because they knew they had some "free time" before Rose arrived? Did the girls plan to walk to where Rose was (up the road past the bridge) or hope to meet Rose on the road - because we know Rose was at the Farm past the bridge where the Farrows worked when she called the Plackers.

Did Rose then call the Plackers at around 5PM when she couldn't reach Skyla to tell her she was leaving in a few minutes and make sure was she ready to go? Is that when Peter called Taylor's cell phone at about 5:10 and couldn't reach her either and then went to find the girls? Was it Rose who first sounded the alarm that the girls weren't answering their phones? Did Peter Placker THINK something was wrong when he left the house...two girls not answering their phones = problem (accident, hurt, fell, drowning)?

Did Rose actually arrive at the crime scene (from the other direction) about the same time as Peter? Did she see the POI on the road? Was she also "looking" for the girls on the road?

Was Claudia Farrow with Rose when she arrived? Did she arrive BEFORE Rose? Did Jimmy Farrow arrive later and Claudia says she arrived with him, when in fact, she was there earlier? Did Claudia actually SEE the bodies BEFORE LE and EMT's arrived? She said she saw the bodies, but LE says she was NOT allowed inside the "tape" - all I can think is that she was there BEFORE LE arrived on scene and saw the bodies - and then left or pretended to arrive later after LE was there. Her story about seeing Skyla's body does not match what LE is saying about the crime scene and that only Peter Placker saw the girl's bodies up close because he found them - and that he kept Rose away from the bodies. According to her story Claudia did not arrive until after Rose called her from the scene, and LE was already there.

So now we know that both Skyla and Taylor had cell phones - and both probably had those phones with them when they were killed. And yet they sounded no alarm, or called to say they "saw something" etc. It sure sounds to me like the girls were NOT afraid and were just walking along when they were killed. I am still bothered by the fact that they were FACING the killer(s) and didn't even turn away. Not even a 1/4 turn in reaction to seeing the gun? Not even a pivot away to move away? No hesitation to approach a person with a gun standing outside his/her vehicle? Either the killer drove up with guns blazing, (which I doubt because Skyla was NOT on the road when she fell, she was back into the brush at least 5 feet) or the killer(s) didn't frighten the girls when walking/driving toward them. Taylor especially must have been just a couple of feet away....and at that point they girls were trapped into the ditch along the road by the killer(s) vehicle - and yet they didn't run or even turn away from the killer(s). They were boxed in and yet they were still facing this person? WHY?

Just more to think about...

My Opinion

[sheza]

The Weleetkan (a local newspaper) July 18,2008 >
The person of interest is an American Indian male, possibly part Caucasian.
He is approximately 35 with a slender build. He wears his hair in a pony tail and may be wearing a BLUE GRAY LONG-SLEEVE SHIRT, FADED JEANS AND A BLACK BASEBALL CAP.
Officials said the man was driving a Ford or Chevrolet white single cab pickup with an Oklahoma tag.

(I was told The Weleetkan has stayed in contact with the families)

[evelyn24]

Monday can't come soon enough. (Can't believe I said that!) While you guys could be right and it is just from the pressure being put on OSBI to give the public "something" to show they are working on it, I guess I am hoping it is much more.

I have seen in several other cases, when they schedule a presser so far in advance...it is usually to allow the media (including national media) to be able to get people in place to report it. If they were just asking for help, I think they would simply issue a press release instead of doing it this way...but that is just me. I still think we are going to learn a lot from the presser.

I hope we learn a lot too, but I still don't get the feeling there will be some big announcement (like they have someone in custody).
Wait!! You think they have a name to go along with the poi??
That would be a good piece of information, and certainly worth holding a press conference.
Maybe they wanted to keep it private while they searched for him, now they can't find him so they are releasing his name?

That would be good new information.


PS.

FC..Thanks for the information, but I'm not sure it means anything as far as I can tell.
It keeps the timeline tight, that's about it.

[SeekingJana]

"I can't describe coming up on it," Peter Placker said, sobbing uncontrollably, as he tried to remember walking up on the scene, only about one-quarter mile from his house. "I done it once and I can't do it again."

I don't know about anyone else, but this statement by P. Placker, has stuck in my head since day "1". I realize it must have been an awful thing for him to see, but you don't forget something like this.

And WHY dosen't he want to do it again, even though he said he couldn't? A few nights later he was talking to Greta, on; ON THE RECORD.

I still have my suspicions about P.Placker.

JMO, but I think that he has told exactly what he found to the people who need to know, LE. He had to have been hysterical and engulfed in grief at that moment. Once the focus was on finding the perp. and his grand-daughter had been laid to rest, he would have greater emotional control to describe the horror. We don't know for certain, but it's my belief and certainly my hope that Mr. Placker has told everything he knows, exactly the way it happened.

Respectfully,
Maria

[SeekingJana]

little,
I said the same thing when the girls were murdered.
I think there is a change a family member killed the girls. IMO, a stranger caught doing 'something' by the girls would have shot them once and ran or drove off.
These girls were shot numerous times, with vengeance.

My problem with this theory is that I can see ONE family possibly having a psycho among them who would kill the girl related to them. But to kill a second, unrelated girl? Unless both girls knew something that would send another family member to prison or back to prison, it's hard to understand why the targeted girl would be killed while she was with an innocent friend, instead of a single murder made to look like an accident or abduction, perhaps.

The amount of overkill, the use of 2 guns, the number of shots, does point to rage, but it also caused the case to receive national attention which a planned " accident" probably wouldn't have.
Do you think it's possible that the girls experienced something incriminating to the shooter during the sleepover that weekend? If so, what do you think they might have had knowledge regarding?

Thanks,
Maria

[YellowDog]

With both bodies found face down, I would like to think they were shot from behind and never knew who shot them. Possibly a shot to each head and then more shots into the torso to make sure they were dead. Skyla may have been the last one to be shot and was trying to get away after hearing the first shot since she was further off the road than Taylor.

Are there any known teen gangs in that area? This seems more like an execution or a payback by someone for something done to them.

Could it be that the phone call to Skyla was later than the time the grandfather said he tried to call Taylor?

[SeekingJana]

I got this from my contact in Weleetka - he says it is 2nd hand info but that he got it directly from a close friend of Rose Whitaker (Skyla's Mom)

Rose spoke to SKYLA shortly before she was killed on SKYLA's CELL PHONE. She told Skyla to get her things ready, she was on her way to get her.

This brings up more questions

What time was the call when Rose spoke with Skyla? (we know they were still alive at that time)

Did Rose tell Skyla a TIME when she would arrive? Like 5:30PM

Where was Skyla when Rose called her? At the Plackers or walking?

Was this call at around 4:30 when Skyla and Taylor went for their walk - because they knew they had some "free time" before Rose arrived? Did the girls plan to walk to where Rose was (up the road past the bridge) or hope to meet Rose on the road - because we know Rose was at the Farm past the bridge where the Farrows worked when she called the Plackers.

Did Rose then call the Plackers at around 5PM when she couldn't reach Skyla to tell her she was leaving in a few minutes and make sure was she ready to go? Is that when Peter called Taylor's cell phone at about 5:10 and couldn't reach her either and then went to find the girls? Was it Rose who first sounded the alarm that the girls weren't answering their phones? Did Peter Placker THINK something was wrong when he left the house...two girls not answering their phones = problem (accident, hurt, fell, drowning)?

Did Rose actually arrive at the crime scene (from the other direction) about the same time as Peter? Did she see the POI on the road? Was she also "looking" for the girls on the road?

Was Claudia Farrow with Rose when she arrived? Did she arrive BEFORE Rose? Did Jimmy Farrow arrive later and Claudia says she arrived with him, when in fact, she was there earlier? Did Claudia actually SEE the bodies BEFORE LE and EMT's arrived? She said she saw the bodies, but LE says she was NOT allowed inside the "tape" - all I can think is that she was there BEFORE LE arrived on scene and saw the bodies - and then left or pretended to arrive later after LE was there. Her story about seeing Skyla's body does not match what LE is saying about the crime scene and that only Peter Placker saw the girl's bodies up close because he found them - and that he kept Rose away from the bodies. According to her story Claudia did not arrive until after Rose called her from the scene, and LE was already there.

So now we know that both Skyla and Taylor had cell phones - and both probably had those phones with them when they were killed. And yet they sounded no alarm, or called to say they "saw something" etc. It sure sounds to me like the girls were NOT afraid and were just walking along when they were killed. I am still bothered by the fact that they were FACING the killer(s) and didn't even turn away. Not even a 1/4 turn in reaction to seeing the gun? Not even a pivot away to move away? No hesitation to approach a person with a gun standing outside his/her vehicle? Either the killer drove up with guns blazing, (which I doubt because Skyla was NOT on the road when she fell, she was back into the brush at least 5 feet) or the killer(s) didn't frighten the girls when walking/driving toward them. Taylor especially must have been just a couple of feet away....and at that point they girls were trapped into the ditch along the road by the killer(s) vehicle - and yet they didn't run or even turn away from the killer(s). They were boxed in and yet they were still facing this person? WHY?

Just more to think about...

My Opinion

FC,
This makes me seriously wonder if Skyla told her mother something which concerned Rose during her conversation with Skyla, and she told her to leave the Placker house. That she would be right there to pick her up.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
Thank you for your great posts!
Maria

[YellowDog]

One possible reason for both girls to be killed at the same time could be they had both been sexually abused by the same person the night of the sleepover and had left the house to go report the abuser. We don't know that they just casually walked out of the house that day. They could have run out of the house in fear. This, in turn, would enrage the abuser.

I don't like to think that's what happened but anything is possible.

[FlowerChild]

With both bodies found face down, I would like to think they were shot from behind and never knew who shot them. Possibly a shot to each head and then more shots into the torso to make sure they were dead. Skyla may have been the last one to be shot and was trying to get away after hearing the first shot since she was further off the road than Taylor.

Are there any known teen gangs in that area? This seems more like an execution or a payback by someone for something done to them.

Could it be that the phone call to Skyla was later than the time the grandfather said he tried to call Taylor?

All I know is that when Rose called the 1st time, Skyla answered her phone.

The girls were shot (per the ME) in the chest and face. That was the original statement - chest and face (later reports said chest and head) and that says they were facing the shooter when the 1st shots were fired. And the media did report originally that be bodies were face down when Peter found them.

Look at it logically - chest shots, face shots - the girls were facing the shooter. How can we be sure they were the 1st shots fired? Why would the killer take the time to turn the bodies face up, shoot them in the chest and face, and then turn them back over face down AFTER shooting them in the back of the head? A head shot and there would have been no question they were dead and no risk of his DNA on the bodies.

The only way this could go down IMO, is the killer(s) approached or drove up alongside the girls and blocked them into the ditch/brush They turned to face him, the 1st shots were to the face and chest (the girls facing the shooter) - chest shots 1st and the girls would have bent forward instinctively clutching the wounds and they would have fallen face down - and if the killer did shoot them in the back of the head or under the chin, those shots were done AFTER the other shots to the chest and face. The killer(s) used TWO guns on each girl, meaning he/they emptied at least one - that's 5 or 6 shots while facing the killer, then (according to witnesses) there was a short break and then a second gun was used - maybe 2 or 4 shots from that gun. Timing wise I think the second gun was the one used for the head shot(s) after the girls were already down.

Either way, the shooter(s) would never have to touch the girls - even an under chin shot can be done with the body lying face down, if you are willing to kneel down and get very close to the body. But I will be interested to hear if there were shots under the chins of both girls - all we know about now is the one supposed under-chin shot reported by Skyla's GMa Claudia. if only Skyla had a wound under the chin, it might have been a shot to the head/face/neck that caused that wound. GMa was not a bullet wound expert and exit wounds sometimes look like entrance wounds. Since we do not have the full autopsy report, we just don't know at this time.

My Opinion

[ArizonaGiGi]

Here is the sketch Harvey Pratt did of the killer of Tammy Harjo:

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2008_Press_Releases/PR-2008-05-05__Sketch_Released_in_Okmulgee_Murder_Case.html

Compare it to the actual killer they caught because of his sketch:

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2008_Press_Releases/PR-2008-05-09_Okmulgee_Murder_Arrest.html

The face is the right width. Everything is in proportion. The lips are perfect. HP is the best in the biz and I trust that when we find finally see the POI...it will look almost exactly like him.

Byrd's face is rounded and much wider. So many things just don't match up to the sketch. The length, the width, and other things. Not him and is the reason they are not holding him. (Do you guys honestly believe everything you read on Topix? Who verified this Steve who proclaims to be LE?)

I'm so glad we are all open to having our own opinions because in mine the sketch and the perp don;t even look like the same race, much less even resemble. Mr Byrd may not be the POI/killer in the OK case but he sure looks very much like the sketch to IMO.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Ok don't beat me.. What do we really know about Uncle Joe ??
------------------
You mean shotgun shell casings and bullet casings are the same?
Well as in being expelled from weapon in away yes. But not the casing itself.

I'm just catching up on the posts here, but I have always gotten a funny feeling about Uncle Joe. And not in a haha kinda way :rolleyes:

[frogjustfrog]

All I know is that when Rose called the 1st time, Skyla answered her phone.

The girls were shot (per the ME) in the chest and face. That was the original statement - chest and face (later reports said chest and head) and that says they were facing the shooter when the 1st shots were fired. And the media did report originally that be bodies were face down when Peter found them.

Look at it logically - chest shots, face shots - the girls were facing the shooter. How can we be sure they were the 1st shots fired? Why would the killer take the time to turn the bodies face up, shoot them in the chest and face, and then turn them back over face down AFTER shooting them in the back of the head? A head shot and there would have been no question they were dead and no risk of his DNA on the bodies.

The only way this could go down IMO, is the killer(s) approached or drove up alongside the girls and blocked them into the ditch/brush They turned to face him, the 1st shots were to the face and chest (the girls facing the shooter) - chest shots 1st and the girls would have bent forward instinctively clutching the wounds and they would have fallen face down - and if the killer did shoot them in the back of the head or under the chin, those shots were done AFTER the other shots to the chest and face. The killer(s) used TWO guns on each girl, meaning he/they emptied at least one - that's 5 or 6 shots while facing the killer, then (according to witnesses) there was a short break and then a second gun was used - maybe 2 or 4 shots from that gun. Timing wise I think the second gun was the one used for the head shot(s) after the girls were already down.

Either way, the shooter(s) would never have to touch the girls - even an under chin shot can be done with the body lying face down, if you are willing to kneel down and get very close to the body. But I will be interested to hear if there were shots under the chins of both girls - all we know about now is the one supposed under-chin shot reported by Skyla's GMa Claudia. if only Skyla had a wound under the chin, it might have been a shot to the head/face/neck that caused that wound. GMa was not a bullet wound expert and exit wounds sometimes look like entrance wounds. Since we do not have the full autopsy report, we just don't know at this time.

My Opinion

My husband watches all these tv shows about crimes/murders, that are true stories. And when we first heard they were face down, he said that usually if someone knows the victims, they cover their faces after the crime. Maybe the perp knew them, turned them over so as to not see their faces, and did the final shots to the head? I hate to think of this, but we have always thought this could be the reason they were face down.:(

[ArizonaGiGi]

Thanks, Susan and Frog! I am just dumbfounded.

It gives me chills actually. I think it sounds like Peter may be responsible. I do hope I am wrong, but why release even part of his call?! Did he make an incriminating statement during that call? What other reasons could there be?! I can't think of any off hand. Anyone else?

SS, like you I am playing catch-up, I have a question; did Skyla's Mom make a 911 call or anyone else beside Peter? I just can't remember that anyone BUT Peter Placker made a 911 call. So I guess it's gonna be his call released.?:confused:

[LifeSaver]

:eek::waitasec:Yeah, but it was announcement yesterday. Its just a stall tactic, because I doubt they have any GOOD news, or they wouldn't be forced to release the 911 tape, or segment of it.

[FlowerChild]

More From My Weleetka Contact

The Keloughs (ear witnesses) live about a mile from the Plackers
Eldon Kelough was a local COP for many years worked for the Tribal Police - Creek Nation.
He is reportedly a womanizer, and a jerk, very "controlling" and the kids were brought up that way as well.
Eldon called the County Sheriff's office after the murders and offered help in finding the killer(s) - OSBI & Sheriff said thanks. but no thanks.
The Kelough's are a pretty violent and rough around the edges family. Locals believe that Eldon covered up or "fixed" many of his family's problems with LE thru the years.

My Opinion

[Albert18]

FlowerChild that is some interesting info about the cell phone and call.

I have always wondered who exactly had cell phones. Did Rose Whitaker have a cell phone? If so and if she arrived on the scene before Peter called 911, why wasn't her cell phone used?

It is little things like you mentioned that can be huge and I think a lot of times LE just heads straight for the DNA and fingerprints and doesn't bother with the details.

Because the girls weren't scattered, I do question a failed abduction. Although they could have stayed together to try to protect each other. But if so, there should have been tracks that showed any sudden movements by the girls.

With all the info they should have gleaned from the crime scene I am surprised they haven't narrowed the motive down.

[LifeSaver]

I was told Skyla was heading towards the fence, and her head towards the west, and Taylors head was opposite towards the east. Have you heard that. The fence is higher, a slope to the bar ditch

[GetSmart]

Thanks FC for all the info. That is quite a story & would explain alot..
last nite I did alot of research on Uncle J.. I think it is on the 4-5 page. he is one busy fellow. He also had a business in Okl City & it sounded like a bike shop kinda.. Renagade something & there were several law suits related to that business.. anyway this is getting deeper by the minute.
Not to add that that is a pretty close group of folks all of the above coulc be involved. Taylor was surrounded by people that were SERIOUS criminals, including neighbors. It is like a hornets nest !! jmo

[Albert18]

... Maybe the perp knew them, turned them over so as to not see their faces, and did the final shots to the head? I hate to think of this, but we have always thought this could be the reason they were face down.:(

You are thinking tonight Frog.

That is an interesting thought. It would be interesting to know the angle of the shots. I think the body shots were from the front but I don't know about the execution shots. I think LE is deliberately misleading on some of their info.

[Albert18]

I was told Skyla was heading towards the fence, and her head towards the west, and Taylors head was opposite towards the east. Have you heard that. The fence is higher, a slope to the bar ditch

So there is a fence along that side of the road? A barbed wire fence? Is it just a few feet from the memorial?

From that description and where Skyla was found it sure looks like Skyla was starting to book. Poor thing.

[LifeSaver]

Yes, there is a barbed wire fence to the west of the memorial. The entire memorial is made at a downward slope. The rocks were put there to keep everything from washing away.

[FlowerChild]

From my Main Man in Weleetka
Perhaps THIS is the reason the 911 tape has not been released and why now we will only hear a PART of the tape??

According to Rose Whitaker (Skyla's Mom) and Radio Chatter the Plackers were NOT AT HOME until after 5:15 PM on Sunday. When th