Brooke Bennett, 12 years old Randolph VT #22

[Lola]

What a coward, he can't even stand up like a man in court. Guess his bravado only works on little girls....Westerfield can move over, there's a new and lower scum in town. :(

[soyesterday]

Hi
I'm not sure how much we're allowed to talk about AR on here...but even just looking at her myspace pic....something gives me a bad feeling...like an uneasy feeling about her....it's almost like a "flashback" kinda feeling...like a "type" of person i knew back in high school....the kinda girl that you didn't really want as a "friend", but you didn't want her as an enemy more so you kept her as a "friend"...does that make sense?
IF she was involved in...or knew that something bad was going to happen to Brooke...and poor Brooke isn't even here anymore, how in the world could she be "ok" w/ that?
How can she be going on like nothing happened at all? :(
Why isn't she sad? distraught? disgusted? anything? :(
It makes me sick...and yes i know she went through hell too...i know that...i get that....
i was abused for years too...not nearly to the extent she was....
but her cousin is DEAD...she didn't even have a chance....
and she was possibly a part of all this.....:(
i hope i don't get in trouble for writing all this...
please tell me if i should delete it ok???
I took a long break from this case cuz it was sooooo upsetting to me....i got caught up in Caylee's case for a while....
but i came back to try to continue about Brooke....
how has her mom been handling this stuff?
Does anyone know?
I mean her own sister's husband...
have people seen the sisters together at all?
Like in court or anything?
Have you all looked at Savannah's myspace page lately?
It's so sad :(....her "quote" and stuff....I'm quoting myself here, cuz i haven't seen much back about what i said and i kinda wanted to add a little bit too...
i really hope this is ok to write, but i just have so many mixed up emotions about what i feel about AR.
To me, i feel like she should be held responsible in some way for her part in this...i mean i know she was a victim of MJ too...
but to me...she was old enough to know better....to keep Brooke from getting hurt...to warn her...to tell someone...to speak up somehow...i just don't get it....she could have been the way to help save her cousin's life...i mean how do you hate someone that much???...and even more so that she is living her life as "normal" as can be...and why would anyone at this point want to have anything to do her?...why would anyone want to be her friend?...how can anyone trust her?...look how she betrayed her own family?...it bothers me so much....she should not be allowed to be going on like this...it's scary to me actually that she is allowed to be living her life free and normal...i wouldn't want my kids around her at all if it was my choice....
am i way out there???

[twinkiesmom]

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=9136707

Another article about his past conviction.

Isn't this yet ANOTHER conviction? The one we knew about was a relative in 1985 (charges dropped) and a conviction in 1992...this one is a neighbor in 1987. And looks like the state of VT hid this crime...the victim was barely able to prove that the conviction happened because the record was expunged.

[Lola]

I'm quoting myself here, cuz i haven't seen much back about what i said and i kinda wanted to add a little bit too...
i really hope this is ok to write, but i just have so many mixed up emotions about what i feel about AR.
To me, i feel like she should be held responsible in some way for her part in this...i mean i know she was a victim of MJ too...
but to me...she was old enough to know better....to keep Brooke from getting hurt...to warn her...to tell someone...to speak up somehow...i just don't get it....she could have been the way to help save her cousin's life...i mean how do you hate someone that much???...and even more so that she is living her life as "normal" as can be...and why would anyone at this point want to have anything to do her?...why would anyone want to be her friend?...how can anyone trust her?...look how she betrayed her own family?...it bothers me so much....she should not be allowed to be going on like this...it's scary to me actually that she is allowed to be living her life free and normal...i wouldn't want my kids around her at all if it was my choice....
am i way out there???

I don't think you're way out there, so. On the one hand you'd feel sorry for her, but there are other kids to have as friends.....would you want your child around a mother this irresponsible? Could your child have a sleep over? Who knows where AR's head is, it's pretty clear that her mother's is somewhere the sun doesn't shine, but the daughter.....and even the younger daughter. Who knows what went on in that household. Life's too short and we don't know what will impact our kids - I'd vote better to be safe than sorry. My big mantra on that score is always talk to your kids so they feel that they can come to you if something is bothering them.

[bdmama]

I talked to a woman today who used to be very close w/ MJ & Denise & Cassie until this happened. She toldme that AR hasmoved out of the house and is now living w/ her Godmother and IS getting counseling once a week. Denise is not working and has completely shut everybody out of her life. (The Godmother was brutally attacked about 11-12 years ago by a neighbor teenager. He beat her, slashed her throat and left her for dead. Hei s currently serving a life sentence for attempted murder.) This woman is a very nice and respectable person in the community and I hope she can provide AR w/ the help she needs seeing how she herself has been thru such a traumatic experience and has gone on to live a normal life. AR is facing NO charges whatsoever for her role in Brookes death. I do not agree with this. She also told me that Brooke and her stepmother really didnt get along and that is the reason that Jim didnt get to be as big a part of her life as he would have liked to.

[Leanne]

I am so glad that AR's Godmother has stepped in but I don't believe once a week counselling is anywhere near enough to be helpful.

[Lola]

I am so glad that AR's Godmother has stepped in but I don't believe once a week counselling is anywhere near enough to be helpful.

But it's a start, it's a relief to hear that AR is getting some sort of help.

Thanks for the update bdmama. I hear ya, on the charges, bd, but I don't feel that I know enough of the case or understand enough about the impact on AR to have a balanced opinion on this. Til more about her involvement is out, it's hard to know where she was in all of this. She's been brainwashed since she was 9. Her view on right and wrong is probably so skewed that it would be considered diminished capacity or something of the sort. It may be better to get her to open up and tell everything she knows. :confused: I just hope they get Jacques and Gagnon behind bars for good.

[shwa]

Im trying to do some research on Michael Jacques, as where he lived and worked prior to his arrest.
I know his last address in Vermont and his last employment which started in March 2007 in New Hampshire.
He lived in Randolph VT for quite sometime, but where was he working before March 2007?

[bdmama]

I know he worked at Vermont Castings at some point, my mother worked with him. She got done years ago but I'm not sure when he did.

[lightinthedark]

Im trying to do some research on Michael Jacques, as where he lived and worked prior to his arrest.
I know his last address in Vermont and his last employment which started in March 2007 in New Hampshire.
He lived in Randolph VT for quite sometime, but where was he working before March 2007?

Hypertherm. It's Thermadyne's competitor.

[TaylorConn]

I can't help but wonder how he got that way, and what the other siblings may be going thru with this and whatever they may have endured growing up. I know he has the sister there as mentioned in previous posts, but I also know he has a brother in Topeka, Kansas although I am not sure of the actual bloodline. Not sure how many siblings there are and if they grew up in the same environment, hopefully they have not and will not manifest like he did.

[bdmama]

another article on his first victim....

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081017/NEWS01/810170372

[lightinthedark]

She also told me that Brooke and her stepmother really didnt get along and that is the reason that Jim didnt get to be as big a part of her life as he would have liked to.

This isn't true.

[lightinthedark]

I can't help but wonder how he got that way, and what the other siblings may be going thru with this and whatever they may have endured growing up. I know he has the sister there as mentioned in previous posts, but I also know he has a brother in Topeka, Kansas although I am not sure of the actual bloodline. Not sure how many siblings there are and if they grew up in the same environment, hopefully they have not and will not manifest like he did.

I believe the brother is his actual brother, he's a lawyer and wrote a letter to the Judge praising Jacques when he was trying to get off porbation early. You can find the letter online some where, I can't remember where I read it though.

[chicoliving]

A Texas man was arrested Friday on allegations that he helped destroy evidence implicating the former stepfather of a 12-year-old Vermont girl who was abducted and killed.

~snip~

Grosenheider was charged with misprision of a felony -- not reporting or helping cover up a crime.

He was released on $40,000 bond, and another hearing was set for this month. He doesn't have an attorney yet, federal court clerk Aurora Cisneros told The Associated Press.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440383,00.html

[becca]

I don't even know where to start as far as AR goes. Denise is an adult with some brains- at least she appears to have them.... she just didn't use them. She wanted a house and all the trappings instead of being a parent. I've said it before that she was more worried about herself than her children. You don't live in a house where abuse of any kind is happening and not have a clue. She is the worst kind of parent in my eyes.... she should be right there with MJ..... if it is proven she had a clue - she did nothing about it- charge her too. I am sick of women that get a pass.... this is her daughter.... no free pass. Not any more.... if you know, do nothing to stop it, then you go to jail right along with the abuser.
AR should be in a residential treatment center.. for a long stay . This girl will never have a "normal" life with out it. Once a week is not the treatment she needs. For her to walk around like nothing happened and she played no part in it- there is a deep rooted problem there. She was abused, used and acts like it was no big deal. That doesn't wash with me. This kid has problems coping with reality, no way to convince me otherwise. I'd also take the youngest out of Denise's custody. That way her behavior doesn't get messed up with her mother's or her sisters. better to error on the safe side at this point. Frankly we don't know how much Denise really knew do we? How did MJ feel it was safe to do this with AR ? How did he know he could convince her to not run to her mother? or did she run to her mom? there is something not right about a 9 yr old that didn't say hey mom what is this about? at 9 she should not know enough about sex to understand the implications of her and MJ's actions. So who told her it was ok?
Remember she was 9 not 14. Could that really be the reason Brooke was targeted? she was young but old enough to speak up if something bothered her about someone's behavior.Did she find out something?
sorry for the ramble, but at this hour of the morning and after reading a couple of pages back I had to post.

[Amster]

A Texas man was arrested Friday on allegations that he helped destroy evidence implicating the former stepfather of a 12-year-old Vermont girl who was abducted and killed.

~snip~

Grosenheider was charged with misprision of a felony -- not reporting or helping cover up a crime.

He was released on $40,000 bond, and another hearing was set for this month. He doesn't have an attorney yet, federal court clerk Aurora Cisneros told The Associated Press.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440383,00.html

This is good news.

[bdmama]

According to a close friend of Denise, she has recently moved out of that house and now has AR living back with her. MJ refuses to sign off on the house so she can sell it and she HAS gone to see him in jail.

[lisalei321]

I wonder who else will be arrested before everything is said and done?

[bdmama]

I can think of a few people that should be held accountable, but unfortunately, it won't happen.

[Tom'sGirl]

~snip

The affidavit said Grosenheider, who was previously interviewed, had initially lied to agents about the call but then later admitted Gagnon had called him. The affidavit also said Grosenheider admitted that in May or June, Gagnon had showed him and a co-worker images of child pornography that Gagnon had received on his cell phone.

The affidavit said the images were of a girl in Vermont whom Gagnon claimed to have had sex with. Grosenheider also told agents he later saw the images on Gagnon's computer at the home on Timber Pond Road, and that Gagnon detailed the sexual assault of the girl to Grosenheider.



http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/31172239.html (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/31172239.html)

[bdmama]

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=9238635

[Mrs. Peel]

Greetings, all.

I am new to this thread. I must say that I am appalled by what happened to BB and what her family did not do in regard to keeping BB safe let alone AR / J1. The computer I am working from does not have my cp available for alteration (mostly keyed to the Caylee Anthony thread) but when I go over, I am deleting all the "fun" things that were mostly keyed to Anthony family lies.

Moratorium in honor, respect for Brooke.

All this time I thought crime novelists were making up stuff. Imagining the worst, etc. NOT. I can see now that most of their sad, shocking horrible stuff is based on real perp crimes and psychotic attitudes most of us will never understand.

I am a little surprised that none of you has really caught on to what the perp did. Sadism. Not "just" pedophelia: extreme cruelty and torture. How many of you actually looked at what he ordered from the place and reviewed purchaser comments? And then the plastic bag over the head with choking?

(words not allowed here)

I agree BB's mom might have known, and Denise certainly should have....

Oh my god.

Look at the company site and the comments by purchasers, plus affidativits per taser by J1 aka AR.

[bdmama]

I am a little surprised that none of you has really caught on to what the perp did. Sadism. Not "just" pedophelia: extreme cruelty and torture. How many of you actually looked at what he ordered from the place and reviewed purchaser comments? And then the plastic bag over the head with choking?



Yes, most of us are all VERY aware of what those affadavits contained and yes, we have seen what he purchased. I remember there being some lengthy conversations about this very subject.

[angelmom]

I am a little surprised that none of you has really caught on to what the perp did.

What makes you think we didn't "catch on"? We followed this case from day one and had some brave souls who actually viewed the items and gave warnings so that the rest of us could make informed decisions about having those images in our heads. After reading the comments, I'm still glad I chose not to click on the links. The descriptions haunt me to this day.

There were sleuthers here who figured him out before the news even broke.

[lightinthedark]

QUOTE: "I am a little surprised that none of you has really caught on to what the perp did. Sadism. Not "just" pedophelia: extreme cruelty and torture. How many of you actually looked at what he ordered from the place and reviewed purchaser comments? And then the plastic bag over the head with choking?"

And I'm a little surprised by your assumption. I've been here since the beginning, read all of the affidavits multiple times as well the latest indictment, and also looked up MJ's "order" online. I don't understand why you would make such a comment, when in fact, most of us on this thread have researched everything over and over again. Have you been through every Brooke Bennett thread here? If you have, I don't believe you would have made that assumption.

[bdmama]

I'm very curious as to what made you believe we didn't already know this information. This case has been very close to me, as my son was friends with Brooke. I have made a point to know every single detail that has been made public & then some. All of the people that have been following this case are more aware of the dirty details than they would like to be, I'm sure. I really didnt want to post on this again, but the condescending tone of your post just irked me.

[IWannaKnow]

I feel that Mrs. Peel's lack of understanding as to the depth and depravity of these pedophiles and their actions is part of the wider social problem. The general public does not want to believe these things are happening, that they have been happening for centuries, and will continue to happen until we shine a light upon the criminals and their behavior and support the survivors. Because it can and does happen, waaayyyy tooooo muuuchhh. It does not come out in the open nearly enough because it is the most tightly guarded secret anyone can have. Just because you do not read about it everyday does not mean it is not happening.


"All this time I thought crime novelists were making up stuff. Imagining the worst, etc. NOT. I can see now that most of their sad, shocking horrible stuff is based on real perp crimes and psychotic attitudes most of us will never understand." - Mrs. Peel

Even more sickening is that the stuff you read ISN'T EVEN THE WORST, cause they can't print the worst. And, unfortunately, I don't believe this is nearly as isolated an incident as many would like to make it out to be. As a survivor of this kind of filth, the disbelief of the general public makes the victims feel that much worse, that much dirtier, that much more ostracized. If no one believes it can happen, how could it happen to you? And how do you heal, if you are/were lucky enough to survive?

People don't want to believe these things because it interfers with the way they want to live their lives. Believing that these things can and do happen would necessitate a change in the way you live your life and the way you see the people around you.

Respectfully,
IWannaKnow

[Tom'sGirl]

I am a little surprised that none of you has really caught on to what the perp did. Sadism. Not "just" pedophelia: extreme cruelty and torture. How many of you actually looked at what he ordered from the place and reviewed purchaser comments? And then the plastic bag over the head with choking?
I'm surprised you haven't read all the posts here and that you missed our discussion about the above http://websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif

[becca]

I'm surprised you haven't read all the posts here and that you missed our discussion about the above http://websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif

I second your post.... and I did go look at his order. I know more aboutthat machine than Icare to.
Posters should read all the threads before they make statements that are just wrong.... there is no other word for it.

[soyesterday]

snipped because of length....
....becca said..."You don't live in a house where abuse of any kind is happening and not have a clue."

Hey becca....
i'm just wondering....do you believe this is true in EVERY case?
i know you posted this a while back....
but i'm just curious....
i was abused for years by my step father....my mom and i were always very close....i was afraid to tell her cuz i didn't want to break her heart....and i thought it would destroy her....
i'm 32 now....and she finally found out a few years ago...
she swears she never had a clue....not at all....i used to believe that....
but there are times when i think....we were sooooo close....how could she NOT know what was going on?...
she still says she doesn't.....:(

[IWannaKnow]

soyesterday,

I know you did not post for me, but I felt I had to put my 2 cents in.

I was abused by my extended family for years. I tried to tell my mother about it when I was in my 20's and her response was "that never happened". I was gob-smacked (as the Brit's say). She then proceded to tell me that she had been molested by her Uncle and "bad things happen to everyone" and I just needed to forget about it, get past it. After many years of processing this, and putting together other pieces of information, I concluded that she, as well as at least some of her sisters, had also been abused, to a much greater degree than she admitted to or remembered. It is/was a huge family secret, so huge, they have all conveniently forgotten about it, make up lies to cover it up, do nothing to stop it (because it never happened in the first place)....................denial is very powerful. These things are not isolated incidents, they run in families, and you really have to be "trained up" in one of these families to be willing to pull the wool over your own eyes to cover up. I think the shame is just to much to bear or admit to.

I am speaking of generational abuse. It would be different if say, a child was abused at a preschool, church setting, etc........by an unknown person.

MY UNSOLICITED OPINION :rolleyes:

[becca]

snipped because of length....
....becca said..."You don't live in a house where abuse of any kind is happening and not have a clue."

Hey becca....
i'm just wondering....do you believe this is true in EVERY case?
i know you posted this a while back....
but i'm just curious....
i was abused for years by my step father....my mom and i were always very close....i was afraid to tell her cuz i didn't want to break her heart....and i thought it would destroy her....
i'm 32 now....and she finally found out a few years ago...
she swears she never had a clue....not at all....i used to believe that....
but there are times when i think....we were sooooo close....how could she NOT know what was going on?...
she still says she doesn't.....:(

I have been around many abused children and parents over the years. I had one or two in my daycare and I fostered a teenage girl for a year. I firmly believe the parents had a clue.... but wanted to keep the family unit together. The children acted out in different ways the younger ones were angry and aggressive towards other kids and adults. Especially adults of the same gender as the abuser. The teenager tried to tell everyone that would listen about her father. The mother finally admitted years later that she knew but didn't know what to do. I had a good suggestion or two for her but it was too late. The father had passed away and the girl was grown. People get away with abuse inside the family because the members of the family don't want to admit that something is wrong. Each child gave off clues but the adults in their world looked the other way.
Hope that helps some, but this is just my view and not a scientific theory. To ignore a child's cry for help is an adults failing not the child's.

[liljim]

this case is on hold with no scheduled hearings until the USAG decides how to proceed correct?

i saw another thread regarding sex offenders in massachusetts and a proposed law change there (that will never pass).

but it reminded me of something i posted a long time ago regarding this case while we were discussing possible penalties and theoretical appropriate penalties for various sexual crimes.

i asked that - if you remove brooke bennett (RIP poor kid) from the case and try jacques on just what he did to J1 (not sure if its ok to use her initials anymore, J1 as in the indictments to be safe) what would be an appropriate penalty?

i think i would be just fine with his penalty being life with no chance of parole, because of the particularly heinous and insidious nature of his crimes against J1. i might even be ok with a jury being allowed to consider the death penalty, would have to give that more thought tho, but i could definitely see an argument being made.

regarding brooke, i will shocked and deeply saddened if they dont charge with the death penalty. if it is determined by the USAG that the death penalty is not appropriate for these crimes then LAWS NEED TO CHANGE.

[Lola]

LWOP works for me. Jacques will find a special kind of hell in prison, death would be too easy for him.

[ZooKeeper]

Regarding Brooke.........Death, prison and H*ll are all to good for Jacques, I think some rare form of punishment for a long extended period of time, and even that would not bring justice for Brooke.

[liljim]

yeah :( when the details came out about what he had done all i could think was "i hope someone gets their hands on him before he is locked up".

the stuff of nightmares.

[Hailiejade77]

yeah :( when the details came out about what he had done all i could think was "i hope someone gets their hands on him before he is locked up".

the stuff of nightmares.

couldn't have said it better

[RR0004]

Isn't this yet ANOTHER conviction? The one we knew about was a relative in 1985 (charges dropped) and a conviction in 1992...this one is a neighbor in 1987. And looks like the state of VT hid this crime...the victim was barely able to prove that the conviction happened because the record was expunged.
This was all so preventable IMO...if the law worked. They failed not only this woman, but Brooke as well.

[RR0004]

I'm quoting myself here, cuz i haven't seen much back about what i said and i kinda wanted to add a little bit too...
i really hope this is ok to write, but i just have so many mixed up emotions about what i feel about AR.
To me, i feel like she should be held responsible in some way for her part in this...i mean i know she was a victim of MJ too...
but to me...she was old enough to know better....to keep Brooke from getting hurt...to warn her...to tell someone...to speak up somehow...i just don't get it....she could have been the way to help save her cousin's life...i mean how do you hate someone that much???...and even more so that she is living her life as "normal" as can be...and why would anyone at this point want to have anything to do her?...why would anyone want to be her friend?...how can anyone trust her?...look how she betrayed her own family?...it bothers me so much....she should not be allowed to be going on like this...it's scary to me actually that she is allowed to be living her life free and normal...i wouldn't want my kids around her at all if it was my choice....
am i way out there???
I hear you, agree with you, and wish I had an answer.

[RR0004]

Bumping for Brooke...we haven't forgotten you, sweet angel.

[ZooKeeper]

Post from SoYesterday
snip
i really hope this is ok to write, but i just have so many mixed up emotions about what i feel about AR.
To me, i feel like she should be held responsible in some way for her part in this...i mean i know she was a victim of MJ too...
but to me...she was old enough to know better....to keep Brooke from getting hurt...to warn her...to tell someone...to speak up somehow...i just don't get it....she could have been the way to help save her cousin's life...i mean how do you hate someone that much???...and even more so that she is living her life as "normal" as can be...and why would anyone at this point want to have anything to do her?...why would anyone want to be her friend?...how can anyone trust her?...look how she betrayed her own family?...it bothers me so much....she should not be allowed to be going on like this...it's scary to me actually that she is allowed to be living her life free and normal...i wouldn't want my kids around her at all if it was my choice....
am i way out there???

I so agree with you on this and do not understand why she has not been held accountable in some way. I realize that she may have been a victim, but she also had the chance to talk as she got older. She was old enough to tell someone about the abuse, I know schools have programs and I just feel if she had wanted out, she must have had a chance to tell someone. I also remember from the text messages she had written that she had been watching some "male farm workers" and seemed to be interested in them, plus she had also written that she wanted Brooke to suffer. I am in no way saying that this girl didn't suffer at the hands of Jacques but I do believe she was/is old enough to understand right from wrong and I believe she knew or had a feeling that Brooke was going to be killed. I believe she should be held accountable for that if only in a facility where she can get help to understand right from wrong. Of course I also believe the state of VT needs that same lesson.

[oceanblueeyes]

Post from SoYesterday
snip
i really hope this is ok to write, but i just have so many mixed up emotions about what i feel about AR.
To me, i feel like she should be held responsible in some way for her part in this...i mean i know she was a victim of MJ too...
but to me...she was old enough to know better....to keep Brooke from getting hurt...to warn her...to tell someone...to speak up somehow...i just don't get it....she could have been the way to help save her cousin's life...i mean how do you hate someone that much???...and even more so that she is living her life as "normal" as can be...and why would anyone at this point want to have anything to do her?...why would anyone want to be her friend?...how can anyone trust her?...look how she betrayed her own family?...it bothers me so much....she should not be allowed to be going on like this...it's scary to me actually that she is allowed to be living her life free and normal...i wouldn't want my kids around her at all if it was my choice....
am i way out there???

I so agree with you on this and do not understand why she has not been held accountable in some way. I realize that she may have been a victim, but she also had the chance to talk as she got older. She was old enough to tell someone about the abuse, I know schools have programs and I just feel if she had wanted out, she must have had a chance to tell someone. I also remember from the text messages she had written that she had been watching some "male farm workers" and seemed to be interested in them, plus she had also written that she wanted Brooke to suffer. I am in no way saying that this girl didn't suffer at the hands of Jacques but I do believe she was/is old enough to understand right from wrong and I believe she knew or had a feeling that Brooke was going to be killed. I believe she should be held accountable for that if only in a facility where she can get help to understand right from wrong. Of course I also believe the state of VT needs that same lesson.

I think the reason she hasn't been charged with conspiracy is because she is going to be a witness at trial for the State. Many times the DA has to go to hell to retrieve their witnesses, as Nancy Grace says often. I am sure they have told her if she doesn't testify to the truth then she can have charges brought against her.

She knew this was very wrong. She did nothing to stop it but helped facilitate the deplorable acts.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

snipped because of length....
....becca said..."You don't live in a house where abuse of any kind is happening and not have a clue."

Hey becca....
i'm just wondering....do you believe this is true in EVERY case?
i know you posted this a while back....
but i'm just curious....
i was abused for years by my step father....my mom and i were always very close....i was afraid to tell her cuz i didn't want to break her heart....and i thought it would destroy her....
i'm 32 now....and she finally found out a few years ago...
she swears she never had a clue....not at all....i used to believe that....
but there are times when i think....we were sooooo close....how could she NOT know what was going on?...
she still says she doesn't.....:(

They know. They will always deny that they didn't know but they knew.

[bdmama]

Jacques is contesting Denises petition for divorce and is asking for joint custody of their daughter.....HA, AS IF!!

This came from a very good friend of Denise.

[Lola]

Thanks for keeping us up to speed bdmama.

What can his lawyer be thinking?

[angelmom]

Jacques is contesting Denises petition for divorce and is asking for joint custody of their daughter.....HA, AS IF!!

This came from a very good friend of Denise.

Wow. Does he realize April Fool's Day isn't for several more months?

What a moron.

[becca]

not a chance!

[lisalei321]

This is the case that lead me to WS, I can't believe this POS hasn't had any kind of trial yet.

Unbelievable :(

[bdmama]

I cannot wait until his trial, I keep asking my friend for updates but so far she hasnt heard anything about upcoming court dates, I expect it will be quite a bit longer before they actually get him in front of a jury. I cannot even imagine the evil things that will come out at trial.

[Lola]

I'm wondering if this will come to trial.

[RR0004]

Jacques is contesting Denises petition for divorce and is asking for joint custody of their daughter.....HA, AS IF!!

This came from a very good friend of Denise.
OMG!! I have nothing else...

[Lanie]

I'm quoting myself here, cuz i haven't seen much back about what i said and i kinda wanted to add a little bit too...
i really hope this is ok to write, but i just have so many mixed up emotions about what i feel about AR.
To me, i feel like she should be held responsible in some way for her part in this...i mean i know she was a victim of MJ too...
but to me...she was old enough to know better....to keep Brooke from getting hurt...to warn her...to tell someone...to speak up somehow...i just don't get it....she could have been the way to help save her cousin's life...i mean how do you hate someone that much???...and even more so that she is living her life as "normal" as can be...and why would anyone at this point want to have anything to do her?...why would anyone want to be her friend?...how can anyone trust her?...look how she betrayed her own family?...it bothers me so much....she should not be allowed to be going on like this...it's scary to me actually that she is allowed to be living her life free and normal...i wouldn't want my kids around her at all if it was my choice....
am i way out there???

I read this a long time ago, and it has haunted me some, so I have decided to post on it.
This girl, who is now "old enough to know better", was not just sexually abused. She has been psychologically tortured since the age of 9. Right and wrong is learned behavior, and from what I have read of her circumstances, I highly doubt she was taught from any age the things her father eventually ended up doing to her and putting her through were wrong. Why would a person who is using his daughter worse than an animal teach her to value herself, or anyone else? IMO, for her to react the way she did when she found the note under her pillow suggests there was mind control going on for a while before hand. IMO, yes, this does excuse what she did. She is still a minor, and therefore, she has had no opportunities to get out from under this man's control, and see this isn't normal. She has had no opportunity to break free, so, as horrible as I feel it is, as horrible as I feel her part in what happened is, I still can't blame her at this point, because she didn't know better, this life is all she has ever known. Her mind is so screwed up, it may never be fixed. This man did this, and he, and everyone else involved, need to pay for it, bigtime.
Lanie

[Lanie]

I wanted to add something else. Where in the HELL was this girl's mother? IMO, charges need to be brought against her, as well. This wasn't some counselor molesting her daughter at summer camp, this was HER HUSBAND, IN HER HOME, FOR YEARS!!!!!!!!!
How effing deep do you need to dig the hole in the sand to stick your head in to pretend there is nothing wrong going on here???
This is neglect, plain and simple, black and white. She should not even have custody for the slime to contest.
Lanie

[thefragile7393]

I do agree with you Lanie, on almost all points...except I feel if she is deemed mentally competent to stand trial, she should do so. I can think of a few killers (Manson for one, Ottis Toole another) who had horrendous childhoods...and still knew right from wrong.

[lightinthedark]

I read this a long time ago, and it has haunted me some, so I have decided to post on it.
This girl, who is now "old enough to know better", was not just sexually abused. She has been psychologically tortured since the age of 9. Right and wrong is learned behavior, and from what I have read of her circumstances, I highly doubt she was taught from any age the things her father eventually ended up doing to her and putting her through were wrong. Why would a person who is using his daughter worse than an animal teach her to value herself, or anyone else? IMO, for her to react the way she did when she found the note under her pillow suggests there was mind control going on for a while before hand. IMO, yes, this does excuse what she did. She is still a minor, and therefore, she has had no opportunities to get out from under this man's control, and see this isn't normal. She has had no opportunity to break free, so, as horrible as I feel it is, as horrible as I feel her part in what happened is, I still can't blame her at this point, because she didn't know better, this life is all she has ever known. Her mind is so screwed up, it may never be fixed. This man did this, and he, and everyone else involved, need to pay for it, bigtime.
Lanie

Lanie, I will not deny the fact that she is a victim of MJ and his twisted head games. To excuse what she did as a result, I can't. She wasn't held in a basement and kept away from society, she went to school, she had friends, she went to their houses, she could see that her household was not a normal one. If she could function in society, go to school, etc, she knew the difference between right and wrong. Luring her cousin to her death was wrong and she knew it... IMHO she didn't participate out of fear, she did it out of anger, you can clearly see she was angry at Brooke in the emails, you can clearly see that she agreed to help, and the indictments show that she knew Brooke would die that day. In the beginning, I wasn't so sure that she knew Brooke was being lead to her death, but she did, and she helped come up with the plan to do it. I'm sickened that she is allowed to go about her life as if nothing happened, attending school, hanging out with friends after school, etc. This girl needs to be put in a residential treatment facility, she clearly has psychiatric issues that one hour weekly sessions with a therapist can't touch. I do agree, however, that Denise should have those children removed from her care. I blame MJ first and foremost, but Denise is next in line... She needs to be locked up for neglect. She makes me sick.

[IWannaKnow]

I do agree with you Lanie, on almost all points...except I feel if she is deemed mentally competent to stand trial, she should do so. I can think of a few killers (Manson for one, Ottis Toole another) who had horrendous childhoods...and still knew right from wrong.

fragile- Manson and Toole were adults. How do they compare? Are you saying that Manson and Toole had bad childhoods but knew right from wrong? :waitasec: Cause if it is your point, I would have to disagree; If they knew right from wrong it certainly didn't stop them. I'm confused.