The trip to the store

[Pepper]

OK Christine, trying to help here. Lets discuss the early morning store purchases here. Christine, move whatever posts you think may apply, OK?

[fran]

This is where it began. Post #186, thread #1, Nancy Cooper.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2381729#post2381729

momto3kids:
"I have a strong feeling her husband Brad has something to do with this. The police are in possession of a video with Brad early Saturday morning at a local store. He told the police he went to get milk and bread at 6am. The video has Brad buying detergent with bleach and/or bleach actually purchased at 4am. redacted statement I feel this is a cruical piece of evidence indicating something had occured. As I searched with my children yesterday in the construction areas along Kildaire Farm Rd and in the Bluffs Nature park in the pouring rain, I kept hope to hear her yell out for help that the rain would stimulate her."

[fran]

FWIW, there was some information redacted by the mods. For security reasons, I believe.

JMHO
fran

[raeann]

Please keep in mind, that this is just a post by an anonymous person. IT IS NOT FACT, IT IS NOT EVIDENCE. Just because a statement is posted here does not make that a factual statement. The police have not confirmed that they were even there at that store to view or pick up a security video. There is no reason to believe that the investigators in charge would confirm this information to a relative of an employee, yet not confirm it in a press conference.

[Aimee729]

This is where it began. Post #186, thread #1, Nancy Cooper.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2381729#post2381729

momto3kids:
"I have a strong feeling her husband Brad has something to do with this. The police are in possession of a video with Brad early Saturday morning at a local store. He told the police he went to get milk and bread at 6am. The video has Brad buying detergent with bleach and/or bleach actually purchased at 4am. redacted statement I feel this is a cruical piece of evidence indicating something had occured. As I searched with my children yesterday in the construction areas along Kildaire Farm Rd and in the Bluffs Nature park in the pouring rain, I kept hope to hear her yell out for help that the rain would stimulate her."

I guess the question here is how does mom know what is on the video?:confused:

[raeann]

Thank Goodness, EXACTLY, finally someone who is thinking logically. How would she know? AND what kind of mother would betray their child's confidence in sharing that information, endanger their child's job and their child's employer's reputation by blabbing that information?

[EnvoyDriver61]

The poster does not deserved to be impugned. YOU don't know what was redacted there. Several posters who were here then do remember.

I believe the poster based on what was originally posted and the actions they went to afterwards since it was obvious they weren't aware of the widespread readers on these charts.

[SleuthyGal]

I'm new on the forum and I also happen to live in Cary, about 4 mi from the community. I am following this case very closely and hope our PD is able to resolve it and that the perp will be brought to justice quickly.

I have my suspicions on who did it, based on what I've read and learned so far.

One thought on the detergent w/bleach (if that's what was purchased): clothes w/blood or other DNA material may have been stained and perhaps that was why the detergent was purchased.

Although yes, if you're going to make sure you destroy DNA evidence then burning all items to ashes is really the best way to ensure complete/total destruction.

[raeann]

I absolutely DO KNOW what was redacted, I read it immediately after it was posted and reread it numerous times after that, as it was being referred to by other posters. It was quite some time after the initial post before any changes were made. I believe that it was not until after it began to be quoted by some print reporters that there was any information removed. I am in no way meaning to be saying anything rude about the poster, only that it is a POST, not a FACT. Anyone here is free to believe it or not as they so choose.

[Pepper]

I absolutely DO KNOW what was redacted, I read it immediately after it was posted and reread it numerous times after that, as it was being referred to by other posters. It was quite some time after the initial post before any changes were made. I believe that it was not until after it began to be quoted by some print reporters that there was any information removed. I am in no way meaning to be saying anything rude about the poster, only that it is a POST, not a FACT. Anyone here is free to believe it or not as they so choose.

Exactly. That's why I didn't mention it in my list of known facts on the other thread.

[philamena]

If Brad went to the store at 4am, who was with the girls?
Did he leave them tucked in bed--ALONE-- while he went to the store? :{

[SleuthyGal]

If Brad went to the store at 4am, who was with the girls?
Did he leave them tucked in bed--ALONE-- while he went to the store? :{

yes he probably did. I believe Nancy was already deceased by then...and probably dumped at the site.

Now...it will be interesting if the crime technicians were able to extract any dirt or mud off the tires of whatever car was used to transport Nancy's body (if in fact BC is the perp). Cause a development that was just 'cut' for roads would be all dirt. And if there had been any dew or condensation then car tires should have picked up some of that same dirt, and possibly the undercarriage of the vehicle, depending. I look forward to hearing if any of that kind of evidence exists, as well as any shoe prints, tire prints, etc, etc.

[philamena]

Great points SG.

[EnvoyDriver61]

AND what kind of mother would betray their child's confidence in sharing that information, endanger their child's job and their child's employer's reputation by blabbing that information?

But, you did say something about the poster here. And if you remember the whole post, this part is covered.

[Pepper]

yes he probably did. I believe Nancy was already deceased by then...and probably dumped at the site.

Now...it will be interesting if the crime technicians were able to extract any dirt or mud off the tires of whatever car was used to transport Nancy's body (if in fact BC is the perp). Cause a development that was just 'cut' for roads would be all dirt. And if there had been any dew or condensation then car tires should have picked up some of that same dirt, and possibly the undercarriage of the vehicle, depending. I look forward to hearing if any of that kind of evidence exists, as well as any shoe prints, tire prints, etc, etc.

See my thread "The car"

[fran]

yes he probably did. I believe Nancy was already deceased by then...and probably dumped at the site.

Now...it will be interesting if the crime technicians were able to extract any dirt or mud off the tires of whatever car was used to transport Nancy's body (if in fact BC is the perp). Cause a development that was just 'cut' for roads would be all dirt. And if there had been any dew or condensation then car tires should have picked up some of that same dirt, and possibly the undercarriage of the vehicle, depending. I look forward to hearing if any of that kind of evidence exists, as well as any shoe prints, tire prints, etc, etc.


There were still shots of LE checking the undercarriage of the vehicle in the driveway. I'm sure they got what they needed.

These guys are never as smart as they think.

JMHO
fran

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/photos/story/1142714.html
Photos checking underneath car.

[SleuthyGal]

Thank you for posting that. I think I'd feel better if they took the vehicles into a secure PD area for thorough testing...and perhaps they already did or will? I think there could be a lot of forensic evidence in any car that was used to transport her body.

[raeann]

EnvoyDriver, thank you, you have proved my point very well. What I said is a POST, and an opinion, a comment, a thought, etc. That does not in any way make it a FACT.

[fran]

FWIW, I know that anyone can be who they want on the internet and we often times need to be careful of people coming in and giving alleged, 'inside' information.

I would like to speak up for the poster who gave us that bit of information, however. She was a new member and IIRC, that was her very first post in Websleuths. Like someone else said, she didn't realize the wide viewership of Websleuths. I'm sure if she'd known, she would NOT have given that tidbit. But she did and by the time she realized her error, LOL, she saw it on tv and it was too late.

Anyway, IF one doesn't want to use that bit of information as part of the overall investigation because it didn't come from a reliable news source, that's fine. As for me, I'm not going to look a 'gift horse in the mouth,' and I'll use it in MY personal reasoning. I think most Websleuthers will probably agree with me.

Also, FWIW, this is the exact reason I personally NEVER get involved in discussions of cases that I personally know about, like from real life acquaintances, etc. It is too difficult to hold your tongue when you know an inside scoop! Course, that's just me. ;)

JMHO
fran

PS....LOL, by my last statement, I guess you could say that whenever you see me, 'fran,' participating in a case discussion, I'm as clueless as anyone else. :crosseyed: :D

[CyberPro]

<SNIP>.

I would like to speak up for the poster who gave us that bit of information, however. She was a new member and IIRC, that was her very first post in Websleuths. Like someone else said, she didn't realize the wide viewership of Websleuths. I'm sure if she'd known, she would NOT have given that tidbit. But she did and by the time she realized her error, LOL, she saw it on tv and it was too late.



Fran,

It could be that you are completely correct, but I had a slightly different take on it. I felt more that she realized she had given out information that someone she was close to had some information that was important to the investigation, or knew of the information. I have edited a previous post to remove some information so that I would not be divulging the contents that I believed concerned the original poster.

CyberPro

[curiositycat]

The only facts that I know regarding the store is what Griff Jenkins from Fox reported on GVS Friday evening. IIRC he said "We have talked to employees at the store who told us that police were there. These employees had no idea what they were looking for or why they were there."

[Aimee729]

In addition to the security camera at the store- every grocery store receipt has the date, time, check-out terminal as well as the cashier ID.# printed on the receipt. I have never been a check-out clerk- but I would "assume" that all of that information is recorded on the stores log as well. That would make the cashier an eye witness to identify BC and what he purchased. The sales log would confirm the purchase and the time. B-I-N-G-O!!! I have occassionally been in 24 hr. HTs before- and it is not a bustling place. How many people bought detergent or detergent with bleach or bleach on July 12 at "X" Harris Teeter at 4 am???

[mahmoo]

Perhaps he actually made two trips to the store if, in fact there is any truth to the story that is circulating, one at 4am and another at 6am. If he did indeed purchase a cleaning item(s) at 4am he may have realized later on that he needed an alibi for being at that store in the wee hours of the morning and returned again at 6am to purchase the milk and bread (supposedly). The video would indeed show him at the store purchasing the milk and bread at 6am but it didn't occur to him that LE would rewind the tape to even earlier than 6am and that's when they realized he had already been there at 4am..........just food for thought.

[panthera]

If Brad went to the store at 4am, who was with the girls?
Did he leave them tucked in bed--ALONE-- while he went to the store? :{
Sadly they were probably alone in the house, but if and when he goes to trial, his defense would say Nancy was alive and well when he went. Just MOO.

[Pepper]

Sadly they were probably alone in the house, but if and when he goes to trial, his defense would say Nancy was alive and well when he went. Just MOO.

And they were probably home alone albeit asleep when he dumped the body too.

[panthera]

In addition to the security camera at the store- every grocery store receipt has the date, time, check-out terminal as well as the cashier ID.# printed on the receipt. I have never been a check-out clerk- but I would "assume" that all of that information is recorded on the stores log as well. That would make the cashier an eye witness to identify BC and what he purchased. The sales log would confirm the purchase and the time. B-I-N-G-O!!! I have occassionally been in 24 hr. HTs before- and it is not a bustling place. How many people bought detergent or detergent with bleach or bleach on July 12 at "X" Harris Teeter at 4 am???
Yes the cash register itself should have a second tape of the transaction that would be used to balance the clerk's drawer at the end of their shift as well as record all sales.

[MoonFlwr]

FWIW, I know that anyone can be who they want on the internet and we often times need to be careful of people coming in and giving alleged, 'inside' information.

I would like to speak up for the poster who gave us that bit of information, however. She was a new member and IIRC, that was her very first post in Websleuths. Like someone else said, she didn't realize the wide viewership of Websleuths. I'm sure if she'd known, she would NOT have given that tidbit. But she did and by the time she realized her error, LOL, she saw it on tv and it was too late.

fran



...respectfully snipped! :)

Yes, fran that is exactly right, it WAS her first post on WS and that is why, afterwards, she PM'd a few people to ask them not to keep reposting her original post and to delete any of their own that repeated the personal info!

[mahmoo]

FWIW.....from reading posts from people that claim to know/knew him.....he doesn't strike me as the type of guy that would normally go to the store for bread and milk. Wonder if LE checked to see if there was already bread/milk in the house (half a loaf/half a gallon) thus there really was no reason for him to go make those purchases.

[LaLaw2000]

Brad going to the store to buy milk and bread? For who? Nancy had to borrow money from her parents for groceries. An excuse of his, no doubt. He probably did go to the store twice.

[SeriouslySearching]

Please keep in mind, that this is just a post by an anonymous person. IT IS NOT FACT, IT IS NOT EVIDENCE. Just because a statement is posted here does not make that a factual statement. The police have not confirmed that they were even there at that store to view or pick up a security video. There is no reason to believe that the investigators in charge would confirm this information to a relative of an employee, yet not confirm it in a press conference.I agree that is not a proven fact...yet. However, when you have watched LE repeatedly and how they word or phrase their comments when asked such questions...you can speculate very accurately most of the time when the reporter has hit on a hot spot with them. This was evident in the press conference when asked by the reporter from the CBC Radio based in Edmonton Alberta, Canada. I transcribed it myself to show what transpired:

The first mention of this story was during the press conference on 7-15-2008
with a telephone question directed to the Chief of Police of Cary, Pat Bazemore.

The reporter announced herself as from CBC Radio in Edmonton Alberta, Canada.

The report asks, "There are some reports online on certain web boards indicating that Mr. Cooper may have gone to a variety store at 4:00 am on the morning that Nancy apparently went jogging and that he purchased some bleach product at that
store . I am wondering if you can confirm or deny that report?"

The Chief looked obviously taken aback (visably gulped and audible sigh) and
answered her with the response,"We cannot confirm or deny whether he was at a store and whether he did purchase bleach or any kind cleaning products the morning of her disappearance. Again, another detail of the case that we just cannot discuss.".
Video of 5:00 pm press conference: http://www.wral.com/news/video/3211708/
Reporter asks the question at 11:40.

Yes, there is every reason they won't confirm or deny the information. It is a critical piece of circumstantial evidence, if it is true, and they didn't want to tip their hand to Brad that they already knew about it. However, I defended and still defend the posters right to release the information based on what she learned from her source.

She did not claim to have first hand knowledge. She only was relaying it. Frankly, if LE or management did not specifically tell them not to mention it...it was their mistake. Then again, unless people are legally compelled to keep silent about such things...they have every right to talk about it as far as I know. The person who told her and the person who told us have no reason to feel they have done anything wrong. They merely were reporting an incident which took place that they felt was pertinent to the case. Granted, the poster did not realize how big it would become and that the International news media would seize on it from this site. I wasn't at all surprised, but I am quite certain the poster was!

[panthera]

FWIW.....from reading posts from people that claim to know/knew him.....he doesn't strike me as the type of guy that would normally go to the store for bread and milk. Wonder if LE checked to see if there was already bread/milk in the house (half a loaf/half a gallon) thus there really was no reason for him to go make those purchases.
The only problem with LE checking for that is he's supposed to have gone to the store early Saturday morning and LE wasn't searching the house until days later.

[mahmoo]

Brad going to the store to buy milk and bread? For who? Nancy had to borrow money from her parents for groceries. An excuse of his, no doubt. He probably did go to the store twice.

I'm convinced he made two trips to the store.........his BIG mistake was going to the same store twice...........not a fact, JMO.

[SeriouslySearching]

Where did you get he might have gone to the store twice?! I don't see this as very likely. He had other things to do in an effort to finish what he started, imo.

[mahmoo]

Where did you get he might have gone to the store twice?! I don't see this as very likely. He had other things to do in an effort to finish what he started, imo.

SS.....no basis for my post...purely conjecture on my part but.......I believe that he did go at 4am (as posted here early on by a certain poster "in the know" so to speak) to purchase a cleaning item or items. Supposedly he told LE he went to the store at 6am for bread and milk which I also believe is highly possible, thus the two trips.

I think he made the second trip back to the store because he realized he needed an alibi for being at that store in the early hours of the morning in case someone remembered him being there once the missing person story broke. If an employee of the store reported seeing him there he could tell LE yes, he was there at 6am.......not thinking at the time that LE would rewind the tape to earlier than 4am. Am I making a bit of sense :confused:. Again, this is purely speculation on my part.

[wicket]

Just a thought: Where would Nancy usually shop for household supplies? I'll bet NC's friends all shopped at many of the same supermarkets. Also, on the cap or the side of bleach containers and other products the UPC and sale stickers indicate the store it was purchased at. If BC has an empty bleach container in the trash or in the recycle box - when does trash get picked up? Did he pay with cash or a debit card? Would his cell phone show any locations with pings from cell towers? Would they have used a cadaver dog in his car(s)?

[carolinalady]

In most grocery stores in the area, these items do not have stickers indicating the store (generally).

[headndownstream]

I'm convinced he made two trips to the store.........his BIG mistake was going to the same store twice...........not a fact, JMO.

Man, knowing BC from other posts, this really rings right with me. His meticulous organizational skills were kicking in at this point? JMO

[EnvoyDriver61]

I think he made one trip to the store and goofed up.

I think he may have bought milk, bread, and the cleaning stuff, but at 4 a.m.

He says he went at around 6 a.m., not thinking they would have receipts or video stuff of him earlier.

He can prove he got the items (probably unopened milk and unopened bread with sufficiently in the future expiration dates) without the receipt. If the car was washed, I bet the receipts were in the car wash trash, or just thrown out outside the store as soon as he left.

The reason I think he messed up is the vagueness of his saying when he last saw Nancy (she went jogging between 6-7 a.m.). I think he originally wanted an alibi for a possible kidnapping at the house scenario. He leaves, she's at home, getting ready to jog. He returns, she's not there, he can see she left while he was at the store.

I think that's why LE didn't want the earlier purchase at the store out yet: they could allow him to spin a lie and then catch him, possibly.

[NCBanker]

I think he made one trip to the store and goofed up.

I think he may have bought milk, bread, and the cleaning stuff, but at 4 a.m.

He says he went at around 6 a.m., not thinking they would have receipts or video stuff of him earlier.

He can prove he got the items (probably unopened milk and unopened bread with sufficiently in the future expiration dates) without the receipt. If the car was washed, I bet the receipts were in the car wash trash, or just thrown out outside the store as soon as he left.

The reason I think he messed up is the vagueness of his saying when he last saw Nancy (she went jogging between 6-7 a.m.). I think he originally wanted an alibi for a possible kidnapping at the house scenario. He leaves, she's at home, getting ready to jog. He returns, she's not there, he can see she left while he was at the store.

I think that's why LE didn't want the earlier purchase at the store out yet: they could allow him to spin a lie and then catch him, possibly.

Momto3kids says he only bought 1 item.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think he would be in panic mode and not into his meticulous mode. Just my opinion, but he if he had just killed his wife, disposed of her body, and was still rushing with adrenaline...it makes sense that he only grabbed what he needed in that immediate moment which would be the cleaning product.

He had more things to worry about than going back to the store to make the bread and milk purchases, imo. He was still covering up the crime scene. He had limited time before the kids got up. It has been my experience that most kids get up about 6:30-7:00 am.

[SleuthyGal]

What store is the one to have been (allegedly) visited by BC at 4am? I saw a picture of Harris Teeter on the news...but wasn't sure if that was the one. Anyone know?

[NCBanker]

What store is the one to have been (allegedly) visited by BC at 4am? I saw a picture of Harris Teeter on the news...but wasn't sure if that was the one. Anyone know?

You could probably PM Momto3kids and find out, but I doubt she wants to say publicly which store it is.

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't believe Mom is going to give out that information at this point.

[fran]

Oh good grief! No offense to anyone, but this reminds me of the Peterson case, one trip to the marina or two? It never did get settled. In the end it didn't matter, he only needed one trip to do what he needed to do. :(

I think the two trips came in because the husband told LE he went at 6:00 a.m. and bought milk. Yet, we have been told that he in fact went at 4:00 a.m and bought detergent with bleach.

IMO, it's one trip, to buy detergent with bleach. The 6:00 trip was a lie, imo.

JMHO
fran