Nancy, the runner

[Pepper]

I am NOT a runner or a jogger. Far from it! So I have a couple of questions from you runners/joggers out there.

It has been reported that Nancy was training for a half marathon. If that is true, then

1. Wouldn't she have mapped out and measured a specific jogging route, so she would know exactly how far she had run?

2. Wouldn't she have carried a stop watch so she could keep track of her time over a pre-measured route?

3. Wouldn't she have avoided a route that included a dead-end street?

[angiej]

I'm not training for a triathon but for my first 5k. I do map out where I go before hand. I don't carry a stopwatch because I can use my ipod for that and I like to take routes without dead ends or obvious places where people can jump out at me. If I go alone at night I stay to places that are well lit and have plenty of people around.

Nancy sounds like she's been at this longer then I and would being using simlar strategies.

[Pepper]

Thank you angiej. By "stopwatch" I meant any impliment that could be used for measuring her time over a specific course.

I'm trying to get that she wouldn't have left the house to jog or run without something that would keep her time, right? Brad says she ALWAYS went jogging without her cell or ipod or ID or anything.

[angiej]

I couldn't do by training without my ipod. It helps me keep time. It's hard to measure how you're doing with some unit of measure, be it time or distance. She could have been doing distance training and not working on speed but that doesn't seem likely. Most runners I know use an MP3 player to help them keep rhythm while running. Helps keep you breathing properly. And keep your mind engaged too.

_edit_

Wanted to add a note that I never bring anythign but my ipod and keys with me when I go running. Certainly not a wallet or id. I don't have a cellphone but I might bring one if I had one.

[Pepper]

I think some cellphones can be used as timing devices, but I'm not sure about that.

So my point is: First, Nancy was a runner in training for an event. She wasn't just jogging for exercise. Therefore one would expect that she would carry some form of timing device or measuring device, or both, or have a predetermined and premeasured route, which would not take her down dead-end streets, because she would have to slow, stop and turn around and that would upset her goal of besting her time.

Brad says she left the house without any of these items. I find that unlikely.

[angiej]

I agree She would have at least brought some sort of device to measure her progress on the run like stopwatch, cellphone, or MP3 player and maybe keys. (My keys double as a self defense weapon, mom taught me to stick them between my knuckles so that if someone attacks me I can punch and hurt them with the keys.)

So yes she might have been traveling light but runners don't travel THAT light!

[runnermomof5]

As someone who has been running competitively for 20 years, I can say with certainty that NC would have mapped out her route, knew how many miles she needed to run that day in her preparation for the half, and would have worn a running watch to keep track of her running time and with some watches, her distance. Most runners do their "long runs" on Saturday or Sunday.
Since NC was training for an upcoming half, most likely she would have planned out her long run for Saturday or Sunday. But since she was training with a friend for this particular event, I don't think that she would have headed out on her own on Saturday morning. Plus, she always drove to a coffee shop, parked, and started her runs from there.BC said that she left the house for a jog. That was out of character for her.
I drive to a local park, park my vehicle , and carry my keys, drivers license , and cell phone in a special waist belt designed for runners. This park's trail goes back into a wooded area. If it is early, and there are not many runners there yet, I WILL NOT GO INTO THE BACK AREA. I feel certain that NC would not have ventured onto that dead end street by herself. I think that women runners tend to be more cautious then men runners. My husband is a runner as well and we often talk about how he can go at any time to the park to run and not have to be as concerned as I would be. Also, he can run in our neighborhood but I never do, as I do not want anyone evil to see me and become familiar with my pattern and maybe follow me home one day.
Also, I carry my cell phone as a way for my family to reach me in the case of an emergency at home.
I get up early to run before my husband leaves for work. There is no way that he could tell you EXACTLY what I wore when I left the house.
He and the kids are usually still sleeping when I leave the house.
I find it hard to believe that BC knew all those details of NC running attire for that morning.
One last thing, if I did not return home in a reasonable amount of time after a run, my husband would either try to contact me, or come looking for me.
BC did neither.
Hope all this helps in some way.

[Pepper]

Thank you angie & runnermom! I'm sure the investigators have thought of these points, but just in case they didn't and they are reading here, it doesn't hurt to shine the light! :clap::clap::clap:

[runnermomof5]

You are welcome, Pepper!

AND P.S. to Angie:

Good going on training for your first 5K!
HAVE FUN AND HAPPY RUNNING!

[allboys]

I think some cellphones can be used as timing devices, but I'm not sure about that.

So my point is: First, Nancy was a runner in training for an event. She wasn't just jogging for exercise. Therefore one would expect that she would carry some form of timing device or measuring device, or both, or have a predetermined and premeasured route, which would not take her down dead-end streets, because she would have to slow, stop and turn around and that would upset her goal of besting her time.

Brad says she left the house without any of these items. I find that unlikely.

NC's twin sister, Khrista, mentioned that Nancy had recently been "teaching" her to run with a stop watch. If she was instructing her sister this way, you can probably assume she used a watch as well. I am a runner that never leaves home without 2 things: my stop watch and my Ipod. Judging from where the body was found, I can't see NC ever having run in that particular area, but I wouldn't be totally suprised if BC had discovered that area on a run. He would have only been on the busier Holly Springs Road for a short distance, and he might have wanted to "mix up" the scenery if he runs for long distances.

[Pepper]

In case you are wondering about my edit on the first post, I changed the title of the thread to Nancy, the runner because it seems like there is a distinct difference between a runner and a jogger, and she seems to fit more in the runner category.

Thanks to all you experts for your valuable input.

[nursebeeme]

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Fox News Telephone Interview with Brad Cooper
I just listened to a phone interview that Fox News did with Brad Cooper on Monday. He sounded very distraught and said that she would never leave. Also - he said when she ran she was sometimes gone 1 to 2 hours and she took NOTHING with her on her runs. No phone, no water, nothing.

[Pepper]

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Fox News Telephone Interview with Brad Cooper
I just listened to a phone interview that Fox News did with Brad Cooper on Monday. He sounded very distraught and said that she would never leave. Also - he said when she ran she was sometimes gone 1 to 2 hours and she took NOTHING with her on her runs. No phone, no water, nothing.

Well glory be, she is the only runner in training who takes no watch or other timing device, no keys, no cell phone. He's lying.

[MoonFlwr]

Well glory be, she is the only runner in training who takes no watch or other timing device, no keys, no cell phone. He's lying.

My sister does it. (Mentioned this earlier, because it doesn't sound odd to me).
She goes running for anything from 40 minutes to about an hour and a half and takes nothing with her.
My brother, too, they both train for runs and half-marathons.

[nursebeeme]

hey moon,
I have been a distance runner off and on for the last 13 years. I never take water, powerbars, goo, cellphone, wallet, or my big~scary~black~beauceron http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/beauceron.htm (but trust me...my doggie, mister b...is a sweet soul and a gem..lol)

I DO however, wear a watch and consult it as I run for time...not distance while preparing for the longer races (ten~milers and half~marathons) but I am not into beating others but rather just meeting my own personal goals of completing a course race. If Nancy were competitive in this she would have been very concerned on her splits and monitored them. IMHOO

[Magister]

My wife does triathlons and when she does the full distance, she takes her stopwatch with her, but if she's just going on her daily run or with friends, she usually doesn't take the watch and she never takes water, a phone or any kind of music.

[MoonFlwr]

Ok, so it's not as uncommon as some people think, then, Magister :)

Yes, Nurse, I'd imagine a watch might come into it.

Gorgeous doggie, NurseBee! :yes:

[Magister]

Ok, so it's not as uncommon as some people think, then, Magister :)

Yeah - If you wear earbuds, then you could get hit by a car and where would you keep water or a cellphone in lycra shorts?

[Magister]

BTW: I thought about mentioning this earlier in another thread, but I wasn't sure that it was appropriate because it didn't pertain directly to the question at hand, while I think that it may actually be germane to this topic.

I just posted a link to a map of the areas which were searched, back when this was still a missing persons case to the "Map" subforum because SS had requested it.

An interesting note is that among the areas searched was the wooded area which runs alongside the power line/gas line right-of-way connecting Regency Park to her friend's house, the one where she was supposed to paint. The last that I'm aware, there isn't any type of greenway through those woods and if there were going to be one in that area, you'd think that it'd just follow the well-maintained service road running under the transmission line.

Because this area was marked "searched" by her friend's husband, then one might assume that Nancy occasionally ran to her friend's house, which might prove that she didn't always follow a prescribed route and that she may not have been reluctant to run down a single-track dirt path which connected neighborhoods, but wasn't populated the entire length.

I don't know, but I noticed the anomaly when I first saw the map, before I was connecting names and felt it worth mentioning.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=108000637827488785667.000451e93a8b056deddbd&ll=35.766004,-78.76545&spn=0.133751,0.102567&source=embed
---

Note: Someone posted her friend's address and then they were admonished. It may seem a little disingenuous for me to refer to their address because I was among those that questioned whether it was necessary.

Still, it does seem relevant to this discussion, so I'll make the generality that her friends live near the intersection of Ten-Ten and US 1.

[MoonFlwr]

BTW: I thought about mentioning this earlier in another thread, but I wasn't sure that it was appropriate, while I think that it may be more germane to this topic.

I just posted a link to a map of the areas which were searched, back when this was still a missing persons case to the "Map" subforum because SS had requested it.

An interesting note is that among the areas searched was the wooded area which runs alongside the power line/gas line right-of-way connecting Regency Park to her friend's house, the one where she was supposed to paint. The last that I'm aware, there isn't any type of greenway through those woods and if there were going to be one in that area, you'd think that it'd just follow the well-maintained service road running under the transmission line.

Because this area was marked "searched" by her friend's husband, then one might assume that Nancy occasionally ran to her friend's house, which might prove that she didn't always follow a prescribed route and that she may not have been reluctant to run down a single-track dirt path which connected neighborhoods, but wasn't populated the entire length.

I don't know, but I noticed it when I first saw the map, before I was connecting names and I felt it worth mentioning.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2398007&postcount=4

Good observation, Magister!

I was just typing a reply to your comment about lycra shorts and cellphones when your new post came up.

I was going to say that it is funny hearing posters call them earbuds, because where I am from, earbuds are those little cotton tipped sticks that we clean our ears out with. ;)

I noticed this in the interim, have you guys seen this?
It's not about Nancy. It's about WS.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67679

[SleuthyGal]

I saw it. Believe it or not this type of thing is not uncommon in message forums. In fact, this is now the 3rd time I've seen this. And the forums involved have ranged in topics from dating, to candles and candle wax, to (now) true crime.

My comment to a friend who told me about the implosion on her candle wax board: "well if people can fight about and create a subversive secret board around CANDLE WAX, I suppose they can manage to fight about anything." :-O

[MoonFlwr]

I saw it. Believe it or not this type of thing is not uncommon in message forums. In fact, this is now the 3rd time I've seen this. And the forums involved have ranged in topics from dating, to candles and candle wax, to (now) true crime.

My comment to a friend who told me about the implosion on her candle wax board: "well if people can fight about and create a subversive secret board around CANDLE WAX, I suppose they can manage to fight about anything." :-O

rofl! :rotfl:

[carolinalady]

hey moon,
I have been a distance runner off and on for the last 13 years. I never take water, powerbars, goo, cellphone, wallet, or my big~scary~black~beauceron http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/beauceron.htm (but trust me...my doggie, mister b...is a sweet soul and a gem..lol)

I DO however, wear a watch and consult it as I run for time...not distance while preparing for the longer races (ten~milers and half~marathons) but I am not into beating others but rather just meeting my own personal goals of completing a course race. If Nancy were competitive in this she would have been very concerned on her splits and monitored them. IMHOO

If my husband is home with the kids, I usually don't carry anything with me. If a sitter is home with the kids, I carry my cell phone. I do wear a watch with a timer, as I also run for time, not distance.

[mahmoo]

It would be interesting to know if Nancy ALWAYS ran on the same route or if she had a variety of different routes she used and if that route(s) was in a populated, high traffic area……in other words not in remote areas. Perhaps any friends reading here could comment on that.

[robinparten]

Hi everyone, I have been running for over 20 years, and I often run without taking anything with me. It just depends on the purpose of the run. I know mileage markers all around where I run since I have been running in the area for so many years. Hope that helps!

[Just the Fax]

My wife's greatest fear is I will be hit by a car while running and they would have no idea who I was or how to contact her. In this weather, shoes, shorts and maybe an ipod is all you get.

[curiositycat]

My wife's greatest fear is I will be hit by a car while running and the would have no idea who I was or how to contact her. In this weather, shoes, shorts and maybe an ipod is all you get.
I agree with your wife. My daughter is a runner and I always tell her "Please put a piece of paper with my name and phone number on it in case something happens" I don't think she does that though, no one ever thinks it would happen to them.:)

[carolinalady]

I agree with your wife. My daughter is a runner and I always tell her "Please put a piece of paper with my name and phone number on it in case something happens" I don't think she does that though, no one ever thinks it would happen to them.:)

FYI...RoadID (http://roadid.com/Common/default.aspx) is a great product and serves this purpose!!!

[Magister]

It would be interesting to know if Nancy ALWAYS ran on the same route or if she had a variety of different routes she used and if that route(s) was in a populated, high traffic area……in other words not in remote areas. Perhaps any friends reading here could comment on that.

Besides the theory that I advanced in a previous post (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2398020&postcount=19), the fact that they were publicly searching the areas around Lochmere, Regency Park, Lakes Wheeler and Johnson, all reffered to as places "she liked to run" in the media, probably says a lot about the fact that she didn't have any one definite, ordinary route.

BTW: As I posted earlier, the area between Regency and her friend's house is undeveloped and unpopulated; Lochmere is strictly residential, while Regency is mixed-use with most of the main part and the part which she would've used to access the power line is all office buildings. Lake Johnson and Lake Wheeler are both Raleigh city parks which are popular with runners and pretty well separated from anything developed. Also, though the theory may have been that "Carrie" could've drove, but if you were going for distance, you could run to either of the lakes along roads without sidewalks. Lake Johnson probably wouldn't be worth the payoff of running to it, but if she were to run to the much larger Lake Wheeler, she could've run down Holly Springs Rd, past the entrance to the subdivision, where the body was found. (Of course, she could've also run to Lake Wheeler via two other routes, both of which would've put her on Holly Springs Rd. in the vicinity of the cul-de-sac, but not directly past the subdivision entrance and in reality, someone who was going for great distance could've run to both Lake Wheeler and Lake Johnson, then maybe take the bus home)

Correction: I now see that the bus doesn't appear to serve Lochmere (Waverly Place) on Saturday, but I wasn't seriously suggesting that she would've taken public transit. Though my suggestion that she could have theoretically, occasionally run to Lake Wheeler does still hold and pretty much every logical route would've included Holly Springs Rd.

[runnermomof5]

Magister asked where to carry a cellphone in lycra shorts?

I have a " small personal item belt" that I wear which expands to hold my cell phone, etc. CHECK IT OUT: www.SPIbelt.com

With all of the training gear that BC owned, I am surprised that NC did not have her own running gear, at least a watch, since it appears that she ran on a regular basis for training purposes. IMO , she did not leave at 7 am to go running. I think that something happened to her before then.

[momto3kids]

I just do not believe NC ran along Holly Springs Rd in the South direction for any reason. This road is one that any jogger who does not want an ankle injury or to be hit would be on. From her home and go Holly Springs Rd north, maybe, since it will intersect almost immediately to a jogging lane or sidewalk near Colonial Baptist Church.
Holly Springs Rd. south is very dangerous with not enough footage to place 2 feet on solid flat surface without being in traffic. Our friends mailbox has had to be replaced a few times,(he lives along the stretch she would have had to jog.) The mail man literally has traffic stopped each time he stops at a mailbox.

To see what I am talking about do a GOOGLE MAP. Put in...Holly Springs Rd Cary NC. The shot will be at the intersection of Holly Springs & Tryon with a little yellow man. Have the yellow man walk along Holly Springs until you pass the intersection of Cary Pkwy. (This is the north section she could have headed.) Pass Cary Pkwy until you get to Fielding Dr, this is south.
It is vey unlikely NC jogged this, especially when Cary has 100? miles or more of jogging trails, sidewalks and bike paths to offer.

[NCBanker]

I just do not believe NC ran along Holly Springs Rd in the South direction for any reason. This road is one that any jogger who does not want an ankle injury or to be hit would be on. From her home and go Holly Springs Rd north, maybe, since it will intersect almost immediately to a jogging lane or sidewalk near Colonial Baptist Church.
Holly Springs Rd. south is very dangerous with not enough footage to place 2 feet on solid flat surface without being in traffic. Our friends mailbox has had to be replaced a few times,(he lives along the stretch she would have had to jog.) The mail man literally has traffic stopped each time he stops at a mailbox.

To see what I am talking about do a GOOGLE MAP. Put in...Holly Springs Rd Cary NC. The shot will be at the intersection of Holly Springs & Tryon with a little yellow man. Have the yellow man walk along Holly Springs until you pass the intersection of Cary Pkwy. (This is the north section she could have headed.) Pass Cary Pkwy until you get to Fielding Dr, this is south.
It is vey unlikely NC jogged this, especially when Cary has 100? miles or more of jogging trails, sidewalks and bike paths to offer.

You're absolutely right, Mom. There are way too many jogger friendly paths in that area for her to run down Holly Springs road and then way back into that subdivision. I drove down there the other day (since I live in the area) and that culdesac is way down that road, way in the back. There's absolutely no reason to go running back there.

[Magister]

I'll agree that it was unlikely that she had tried to jog past the subdivision where the body was found, unless (possibly) she was headed to Lake Wheeler in that direction or was going to loop back by Penny, or for reasons that I'll address later in this post.

As for whether or not she would've jogged down Fielding to Brittabbey Ct; I didn't know the woman or her usual routes. If she had measured a route to match the distance for her upcoming half-marathon, Brittabbey could've been one way to do it. Also, if you look at the overview via Google Maps, you can see that it's only about 500' from the cul-de-sac to Garden Oaks Ct, which would lead out to Yates Mill and could be a shortcut through a neighborhood toward Lake Wheeler.

(There's obviously some kind of cut visible using Google that would connect the two neighborhoods, but I doubt it's a developed path and it appears to come out in someone's back yard)

And, it really should go without saying that there's only about 500' between Lily Atkins and Fielding Dr.; If she was making a loop from Lily Atkins to the Parkway or vice-versa, a distance of about a mile, she would've jogged right past the mouth of Fielding. (An entire loop, down Lochmere to Lily Atkins, up Holly Springs to the Parkway and back home googles-out to being about 3.5 miles; A little light for an athlete, but definitely a joggable distance and if she included jogging around various cul-de-sacs, like Brittabbey, it could possibly be doubled or more with very little effort).

As I said, I didn't know the woman. Judging from the areas searched, I'd say that she probably varied her route somewhat and as I said in a previous post to this forum, she may not have opposed the idea of jogging off-path or through undeveloped areas.

[SleuthyGal]

Until we get some kind of information about exactly what, if anything, she was wearing when she was found, we don't know that she ever went jogging that morning. I suspect she never made it out of her house alive after that party, but I'll wait to hear what evidence suggests that.

[momto3kids]

magister....this could be a possibility that NC could have jogged this, but Lake Wheeler has no place to run except a parking lot.

I still find it hard to believe with all the available areas in Cary to jog she would chose what I consider rough terrain.
I guess the best way it was described to me....why would someone chose to test a new Lexus on a gravel back road with mud filled pot holes when can test the handling and speed on a reasonable paved road. Would she risk running along roads that had no shoulder? How can she get an accurate time test this if she was doing one?

magister...you could be exactly right as well. There are just too many variables with this crime.This hopefully will get answered soon.

[SeriouslySearching]

You raise some good points, Mom. Especially about the test times on rougher terrain and running in a place where she could risk injury to her ankles or self due to the traffic.

I don't think she ever left the house that morning either. In my heart, I believe she was already gone long before daylight came. :(

[fran]

magister....this could be a possibility that NC could have jogged this, but Lake Wheeler has no place to run except a parking lot.

I still find it hard to believe with all the available areas in Cary to jog she would chose what I consider rough terrain.
I guess the best way it was described to me....why would someone chose to test a new Lexus on a gravel back road with mud filled pot holes when can test the handling and speed on a reasonable paved road. Would she risk running along roads that had no shoulder? How can she get an accurate time test this if she was doing one?

magister...you could be exactly right as well. There are just too many variables with this crime.This hopefully will get answered soon.


According to Brad, her husband, at the very beginning of this case when she was still missing, Nancy took three routes. THIS was NOT one of them.

She was in training and I don't think she would have varied her routine. I also don't believe she was scheduled to run that day. IIRC, the person who ended up calling in the report of her missing, was her regular running partner. Like I said, I don't believe she would have changed her routine.

Jogging just fit into Brad's explanation, IMHO, of where she was.

I think we'll be surprised when we hear the REAL STORY.

JMHO
fran

[Magister]

Momto3kids - We really don't know where Nancy would've ran and if she's anything like my triathlete wife, a pleasure run with friends probably would've followed a different course than training session. (If anything good has come from this case for me, I asked my wife this evening, what route she runs because prior to today, I had no idea)

Streetview shows a wide shoulder most of the way along Holly Springs between Lily Atkins and the Parkway, a small part of it appears to have a paved shoulder and there's sidewalk, plus turn lanes in front of one street.

Once again, according to Google, if she were to do a straight loop out Wallsburg to the Parkway, over to Tryon, back around to the Lochmere entrance off of Kildare, out through Lily Atkins to Holly Springs, up to the Parkway and back home, she'd pass the cul-de-sac and she'd have run about six miles.

I agree that running Holly Springs toward Fairview probably isn't something someone would choose. They straightened-out those curves as you climb to Penny, what about fifteen years ago, but it's still a dangerous place. People just no longer call them "deadman's curves".

Anyway...

As you can see, if she had run the roads in a circle, she could easily keep adding distance. The smaller loop that I mentioned previously was 3.5 miles; The larger loop outlined above is 6 miles and if she added the Campbell loop, she'd only be on Holly Springs Rd for a little over a 1000' at the low end, she'd still pass Fielding and the whole run would become 7.9 miles.

We just don't know because we didn't run with her and based on my own life, I don't even know whether Brad knew which way she'd go.

Though, I will say that as you pointed-out, there's several greenways in the area, but if you run along them, you could have to stop to cross a street and if you ran around the main roads in the right direction, you might never have a delay.

[CyberPro]

Momto3kids - We really don't know where Nancy would've ran and if she's anything like my triathlete wife, a pleasure run with friends probably would've followed a different course than training session. (If anything good has come from this case for me, I asked my wife this evening, what route she runs because prior to today, I had no idea)

Streetview shows a wide shoulder most of the way along Holly Springs between Lily Atkins and the Parkway, a small part of it appears to have a paved shoulder and there's sidewalk, plus turn lanes in front of one street.

<Snipped for space >

Magister,

I do not run anymore, but when I was younger, I did.

I ran a measured 10K course, and I ran the same route each time. This was in the days before cell phones, and I ran with nothing, no ID, no water. I did have a watch, but that is because I always wear one, and I was not much interested in timing myself (Which might have been done using a calendar more effectively :)).

At one point on my route, I ran along a fairly major highway. This was rather stupid on my part in retrospect, the cars were going about 55MPH and whizzing rather close to me. The shoulder was really wide, but I did not like running on it, because it was not level. This caused a lot of torque on my ankles, and you were not able to establish a smooth running pattern. This section of my route was about 4 miles into the run, and I found it very uncomfortable to run there. Unless this was the first time for NC to try this route, I would think that she would choose a smoother path, I generally preferred sidewalks, although I might have opted for a greenway like path, if it was not too much like running cross country.

CyberPro

[fran]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25723445/

Who killed Nancy Cooper?

Van Zandt: Murdered woman's husband definitely a suspect


....................snip..................

Mr. and Mrs. Cooper are both from Canada, moving to the U.S. because of Brad’s job. Nancy was a runner who once had hopes of participating in the Olympics. A bad knee quashed that dream, but she continued to run in marathons and other races. No one other than Brad Cooper is known to have come forward to say they saw Nancy after she left a Friday night neighborhood party that she attended alone, although a friend spoke to her on the phone at 10:30 p.m. that same evening.

Brad says she arose before 7 a.m. Saturday morning and left for a run with a friend. "No," says her husband, "she didn’t take a cell phone or any form of identity with her." She also appears to have broken her tradition of taking her car to a coffee house to meet her running partner. This experienced runner training for a half-marathon evidently broke her normal routing and appears not to have traveled along one of her normal running paths.
<<<<<<<<<<<full article at link>>>>>>>>>>

[boxy]

I didn't see this posted anywhere else so thought I would share. If it has been posted here, my apologies.

Nancy completed a 5k race in June. She finished at the same time as Carey Clark. Carey (referred to as Carrie Clarke in the affidavits) lives in a condo about 2 miles by google map from the Copper house and is presumably the person Brad indicated Nancy had gone to run with the day of her death.

http://results.active.com/pages/searchform.jsp?posted_p=t&numPerPage=25&page=4&rsID=64965&queryType=division&pubID=3#VIEW

49 Nancy Cooper Cary NC 34 F 27:16
42 Carey Clark Cary NC 32 F 27:16

Nancy also has a half marathon time at active.com from Sept 2007 with a time of just under 2 hours.

[carolinalady]

I didn't see this posted anywhere else so thought I would share. If it has been posted here, my apologies.

Nancy completed a 5k race in June. She finished at the same time as Carey Clark. Carey (referred to as Carrie Clarke in the affidavits) lives in a condo about 2 miles by google map from the Copper house and is presumably the person Brad indicated Nancy had gone to run with the day of her death.

http://results.active.com/pages/searchform.jsp?posted_p=t&numPerPage=25&page=4&rsID=64965&queryType=division&pubID=3#VIEW

49 Nancy Cooper Cary NC 34 F 27:16
42 Carey Clark Cary NC 32 F 27:16

Nancy also has a half marathon time at active.com from Sept 2007 with a time of just under 2 hours.

Definitely a better time than when she ran w/ HM!

[boxy]

Definitely a better time than when she ran w/ HM!

I noticed that too. Her half marathon time in Sept 2007 was at a similar pace, just over 9 min a mile. Maybe she was really out of shape when she ran the 5k with HM. Was that around the time when she had her first child?

I was not able to find any race times for Jessica Adam. If JA was training, she wasn't doing so at the same 5k's as NC and CC.

[msfittz]

bumped~~~
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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 07-16-2008, 12:39 PM
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Fox News Telephone Interview with Brad Cooper
I just listened to a phone interview that Fox News did with Brad Cooper on Monday. He sounded very distraught and said that she would never leave. Also - he said when she ran she was sometimes gone 1 to 2 hours and she took NOTHING with her on her runs. No phone, no water, nothing.

There is actually a picture on the photo thread of Nancy running in a race in Alberta with both a running watch and either a GPS or walkman (it appears she has headphones on, although I could be mistaken). Why would she use all this gear in a race, but not on a training run? I have friends who train with an ipod, but would never wear one during a race.

[carolinalady]

There is actually a picture on the photo thread of Nancy running in a race in Alberta with both a running watch and either a GPS or walkman (it appears she has headphones on, although I could be mistaken). Why would she use all this gear in a race, but not on a training run? I have friends who train with an ipod, but would never wear one during a race.

I would think that her normal running partners might be able to tell what she normally had on her runs. They might even ask the sister (Krista) since she said Nancy was "training" her to run again.

[OregonMommy]

I noticed that too. Her half marathon time in Sept 2007 was at a similar pace, just over 9 min a mile. Maybe she was really out of shape when she ran the 5k with HM. Was that around the time when she had her first child?

I was not able to find any race times for Jessica Adam. If JA was training, she wasn't doing so at the same 5k's as NC and CC.



My guess is that she was pushing a baby jogger during this race. I have done this for many of the "fun runs" here in town. I would never do it for a half marathon, but the 5ks are all about the cammaraderie, and if you have a little one who may be used to going for runs with mommy in the jogger, it's fun to include them. It does, however, slow you down - and usually you start at the back of the pack to be courteous to the other runners.

I am not sure how Nancy's running time relate to this case though. Are we saying that because sometimes her race times are "average", she really wasn't an intense runner, and therefore, it would be likely that she would go out for a leisurely run without timing devices? Help me on this one.

I do not think she ever went jogging that morning. Out consuming wine late the night before, expected at a friends' at 8am...doesn't make sense. I do half marathons and do my long runs on either Sat. or Sun. It changes each week, and usually depends on what my plans are the night before because I don't like being dehyrdrated for a 2 hour run. I also usually take the day BEFORE my long run off of running, so my long run is super productive. I read somewhere that Nancy ran on Friday with a friend. It would make sense to me that she would take Sat. off (especially being out the night before and having plans at 8am) and then do her long run on Sunday. Again, just in my opinion.

[carolinalady]

My guess is that she was pushing a baby jogger during this race. I have done this for many of the "fun runs" here in town. I would never do it for a half marathon, but the 5ks are all about the cammaraderie, and if you have a little one who may be used to going for runs with mommy in the jogger, it's fun to include them. It does, however, slow you down - and usually you start at the back of the pack to be courteous to the other runners.

I am not sure how Nancy's running time relate to this case though. Are we saying that because sometimes her race times are "average", she really wasn't an intense runner, and therefore, it would be likely that she would go out for a leisurely run without timing devices? Help me on this one.

I do not think she ever went jogging that morning. Out consuming wine late the night before, expected at a friends' at 8am...doesn't make sense. I do half marathons and do my long runs on either Sat. or Sun. It changes each week, and usually depends on what my plans are the night before because I don't like being dehyrdrated for a 2 hour run. I also usually take the day BEFORE my long run off of running, so my long run is super productive. I read somewhere that Nancy ran on Friday with a friend. It would make sense to me that she would take Sat. off (especially being out the night before and having plans at 8am) and then do her long run on Sunday. Again, just in my opinion.

Clea Morwick stated in a FoxNews interview that Nancy told her she was planning on "taking a jog" on Saturday morning. Also, I do believe that somewhere it was stated that Carrie stood Nancy up for a run on Friday. I'm not sure if Nancy went solo on Friday or not. I would guess since Jessica Adam states they make each other aware of their training runs, she would know about Friday. I do find it interesting that Jessica states she was not aware of Nancy's plan to run on Saturday, but Clea says Nancy told her those were her plans. Note: Clea does state in that same interview that she has spoken to Carrie and Carrie did not have plans to run w/ Nancy on Saturday AM.

As I've mentioned previously, I am an avid morning exerciser (and yes, I've trained for races as well). I go no matter if I've gone to bed late or if I've had a few drinks the night before or if I have plans to be somewhere in the morning immediately following my workout. What's normal for some is not normal for others.

As for her running time, at one point it was mentioned that she had Olympic hopes at one point. Someone brought up her running time and it was quickly noted that she probably had a little one and might have been a tad out of shape. I there was considerable interest b/c in that race she was running with Heather M.

[OregonMommy]

As I've mentioned previously, I am an avid morning exerciser (and yes, I've trained for races as well). I go no matter if I've gone to bed late or if I've had a few drinks the night before or if I have plans to be somewhere in the morning immediately following my workout. What's normal for some is not normal for others.



I wish I could say the same! If I have more than two drinks the night before, I feel pretty bad during exercise. This happened after having kids...but yes, everyone is different. And after reading the wide variety of posts on whether or not people think Nancy went jogging, I appreciate that even more. I just wish I knew what Nancy was more inclined to do. Was she one who would never be late to an 8am appointment? Would she try to fit a 4-5 miler in or would she bag it and hit it harder later? Would she ever leave for a run without a cell phone, as so many people say is perfectly normal, yet I would never do...? Was she super cautious or would it be not a big deal for her to vary off of the beaten path?

[carolinalady]

I wish I could say the same! If I have more than two drinks the night before, I feel pretty bad during exercise. This happened after having kids...but yes, everyone is different. And after reading the wide variety of posts on whether or not people think Nancy went jogging, I appreciate that even more. I just wish I knew what Nancy was more inclined to do. Was she one who would never be late to an 8am appointment? Would she try to fit a 4-5 miler in or would she bag it and hit it harder later? Would she ever leave for a run without a cell phone, as so many people say is perfectly normal, yet I would never do...? Was she super cautious or would it be not a big deal for her to vary off of the beaten path?

Oh, sometimes I definitely feel bad and definitely feel like sleeping in, but it's my only time to get my exercise in. My daily plans w/ the kids often interfere w/ any attempts to exercise at a later time (plus the heat around here).

I agree, we need more information about what was normal for Nancy.

[SusieClue]

"As for her running time, at one point it was mentioned that she had Olympic hopes at one point. Someone brought up her running time and it was quickly noted that she probably had a little one and might have been a tad out of shape. I there was considerable interest b/c in that race she was running with Heather M.[/QUOTE]"
that is a quote from CarolinaLady that I messed up when I tried to cut it up...I am obviously stupid newbie..


I found this from the News and Observer:
Cooper had played competitive ringette, a game similar to hockey, in Canada and at one point hoped to play ice sports at the Olympic level, ...

[Bob&Bob]

Just so I'll know.

The server switching is going to go on for weeks isn't it?

[Cymro]

I run with no ID, nothing other than a house key (and not even that when I know someone will be at home), no timing device, MP3 player, pedometer or anything. My average run is about 4-5 miles but I can go as far as 8 and as low as 2 depending on time available to me.

In my mind I have a pretty good idea in advance how far I'm running. Even when I go on a new route I have an idea within 5-10% of how long it is. I can always check it back with the Google pedometer (http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/), and as for timing I just make a note of when I left the house.

The only thing I wouldn't do is go down a dead end - in fact I never go back on myself but make a complete circuit on any route; however I think I'm pretty unusual in that respect.

So yeah, not only do I travel that light but any lighter and I'd be shedding clothes.

[Bob&Bob]

I'll take that as a yes

[Cymro]

Missed the second page of the thread Bob 'n Bob - at the end of the first page other runners were commenting on how they ran.

The point is that there is nothing suspicious about the lack of an ID on the body of a runner - it doesn't indicate that anyone is trying to delay identification of the body or that the body was disposed of from inside the home, leaving ID behind.

[fran]

FWIW, it appears Nancy's friends haven't forgotten her.........I've wondered, IF the running thing actually wasn't Nancy's idea and Brad's competitive spirit embraced it. I wonder if he was determined to make himself show better in these meets than Nancy? It's said by her friends that Brad told Nancy that she had a 'secondary role' in the family and HE was the sole breadwinner. I just can't see him letting Nancy show him up as far as placing better than him.

Just a thought,
fran





http://nancycooper.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

So I'm sitting here watching the Olympics, and just wanted to share a few things about Nancy...

- She had Olympic dreams in women's ice hockey, but was sidelined by a knee injury.

[Star12]

Gerry is a runner, too. "Runs" in the family.

It's good to see DD posting about NC, though.

[FullDisclosure]

FWIW, it appears Nancy's friends haven't forgotten her.... ~snip~





http://nancycooper.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

So I'm sitting here watching the Olympics, and just wanted to share a few things about Nancy...

- She had Olympic dreams in women's ice hockey, but was sidelined by a knee injury.

Thanks for sharing that link, Fran. I'm glad to see her friends remembering her that way and focusing on the positive aspects of her life. Nancy was indeed loved by many.

[fran]

Y/W FD! :)

It seems Nancy had many very good friends. In that respect, she was a lucky woman. In addition, the friends were lucky to have known her.

imo
fran

[fran]

Nancy Cooper Memorial Website

http://www.imorial.com/NancyCooper/

[EntreNous]

I saw that Fran. They chose a really good picture of her. So sad.

[runr]

This weekend (Labor Day, USA) is the VA Beach Rock & Roll Half Marathon that NC was training for...

[reddress58]

This weekend (Labor Day, USA) is the VA Beach Rock & Roll Half Marathon that NC was training for...
Thanks, runr, for bringing it to our attention. I hope her friends will still participate in her honor. Will you be doing it? If so, good luck!

[jumpstreet]

Thanks, runr, for bringing it to our attention. I hope her friends will still participate in her honor. Will you be doing it? If so, good luck!

The race is Sunday. Here's a link to the race web site (http://www.rnrvb.com/home.html). They'll probably post the results within a day (if not the afternoon) of the race. Can check to see if JA (and/or CC) opt to run. [ IIRC it was the 3 of them that planned to do it together ]. For that matter, can check to see if anyone else (HM, SH, BC) opt to run.

It's certainly understandable either way, and no doubt for them, will be hard either way. (Running it, or not).

[runr]

As with almost all large races like the R&R Half, results will be online before the end of the day. Racers are listed by whatever name they choose to call themselves on the race application.

(For example, in most races, I could register as Tinkerbelle Obamacain, and that is the name they would use in race results postings. Very few of the big races check id. All they care about are that people run with legitimate race numbers and don't "bandit" and that age group/gender winners are who they say they are. For we mortals plodding along, it could be anyone. I would not be surprised if one of NC's friends ran in her honor wearing her number this weekend.)

[jumpstreet]

As with almost all large races like the R&R Half, results will be online before the end of the day. Racers are listed by whatever name they choose to call themselves on the race application.

(For example, in most races, I could register as Tinkerbelle Obamacain, and that is the name they would use in race results postings. Very few of the big races check id. All they care about are that people run with legitimate race numbers and don't "bandit" and that age group/gender winners are who they say they are. For we mortals plodding along, it could be anyone. I would not be surprised if one of NC's friends ran in her honor wearing her number this weekend.)

Wonder why anyone would run under false name...

[runr]

From the results, it does not appear that JA ran in the race, although she and NC were both registered. :-(

[jumpstreet]

From the results, it does not appear that JA ran in the race, although she and NC were both registered. :-(

Yeah, I noticed that too... was sad to see their names on the list, but no split times for either. [ A reminder of the intentions ]

Didn't see anyone else (registered or participating) [CC, etc]

[momto3kids]

Yeah, I noticed that too... was sad to see their names on the list, but no split times for either. [ A reminder of the intentions ]

Didn't see anyone else (registered or participating) [CC, etc]

I didn't see CC name listed.

Reading into this a bit, I wonder if this is another reason JA surmised something wasn't right when BC mentioned CC and NC might be jogging together on Saturday morning. Had CC just decided or was talking about not pursuing this event around the time NC was murdered?

[runr]

from www.runnersweb.com
"Only 800 entry spots left – The B-52s headliner concert and revamped course finish highlight 2008 event

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va., (July 16, 2008) – The Rock ‘n’ Roll Half Marathon Virginia Beach, presented by SunTrust, is ramping up for the August 31, 2008 event – and there are only 800 entry spots available. "

[momto3kids]

from www.runnersweb.com
"Only 800 entry spots left – The B-52s headliner concert and revamped course finish highlight 2008 event

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va., (July 16, 2008) – The Rock ‘n’ Roll Half Marathon Virginia Beach, presented by SunTrust, is ramping up for the August 31, 2008 event – and there are only 800 entry spots available. "

Runr...I have been all over the link you provided and can't locate what you quoted on here. Was this from something you had downloaded?

I was actully trying to find the different metals that are given out at these events, and thought I might recognize the one that is at NC site. I will just have to go take a photo of it unless someone else goes to see it and figures which one it came from.

I guess that is also why CC might not be listed as you said...maybe signed up late?

[SleuthyGal]

There's a Carey that signed up but is under a different last name...however she lives in Cary and is in the 34 - 39 age bracket.

[momto3kids]

This evening I was able to get a photo of the metal (the one I mentioned on Aug 31st) that was placed at the site where NC was found.

Maybe someone will be able to tell which race or date it might have come from. There is no race or date printed on it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/IMG_0151.jpg

[Star12]

This evening I was able to get a photo of the metal (the one I mentioned on Aug 31st) that was placed at the site where NC was found.

Maybe someone will be able to tell which race or date it might have come from. There is no race or date printed on it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/IMG_0151.jpg

Beautiful candle, Mom.

It's a nice medal. No idea what race/date, but it brings tears to my eyes to think of someone doing this for Nancy.