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Pepper
07-19-2008, 11:53 PM
It just occured to me that we recently learned about touch DNA in the Ramsey case. If Nancy was found in jogging clothes and not night clothes or the clothes she wore to the party, is it possible, that if Brad changed her clothes, his touch DNA would be found in the areas he would have touched in dressing her?

I know that his DNA is all over the house, but if her clothes were clean, and he dressed her body, perhaps his DNA is in places that would prove he dressed her and didn't get there by cross contamination.

MoonFlwr
07-19-2008, 11:57 PM
It just occured to me that we recently learned about touch DNA in the Ramsey case. If Nancy was found in jogging clothes and not night clothes or the clothes she wore to the party, is it possible, that if Brad changed her clothes, his touch DNA would be found in the areas he would have touched in dressing her?

I know that his DNA is all over the house, but if her clothes were clean, and he dressed her body, perhaps his DNA is in places that would prove he dressed her and didn't get there by cross contamination.

Good thought!

I wonder how well that would hold up in court though, given they were officially in an intimate relationship?

Pepper
07-20-2008, 12:05 AM
Good thought!

I wonder how well that would hold up in court though, given they were officially in an intimate relationship?
I think that depends on the expert testimony. I'm not familiar with it enough to know how sensitive it would be. Speculating here, if the clothing were freshly laundered and put away by Nancy, there probably wouldn't have Brad's DNA on it, only Nancy's from folding the clothes. So if there is significant BC DNA around the buttons or zipper and no NC DNA in that area, seems to me that would prove Nancy didn't dress herself.

Disclaimer, I ain't no DNA expert, so this is just SPECULATION not PROOF of anything. It is certainly something I hope the experts can look at though.

sues
07-20-2008, 12:06 AM
Good thought!

I wonder how well that would hold up in court though, given they were officially in an intimate relationship?

I don't think that would be likely to hold up. Their laundry might even co-mingle in the wash...

Pepper
07-20-2008, 12:16 AM
Sues, I think this technology is too unfamiliar for us to know for sure. But I'm thinking that DNA would wash out, so co-mingling laundry wouldn't be a factor. So let's take an example of clean socks. Nancy washed the socks, folded them and put them away. This would mean that her DNA was all over the OUTSIDE of the socks. No Brad DNA anywhere. Brad grabs socks and puts them on Nancy. His thumbs would be in the INSIDE of the socks close to the top where he would have to grab to pull them on.

Assuming there was no DNA on the socks when they came out of the dryer, and Nancy only touched the outside of the socks when she put them away, and Brad's DNA was found inside the socks, well that could be telling. Again, I have no idea if this would hold up or not, but it could be interesting.

MoonFlwr
07-20-2008, 03:19 AM
"My Name is Moon and I am a WebSleuthAholic!" ;)

lol! I had severe withdrawal symptoms whilst WS was 'taking out some trash' for a short while there!

The way you put it Pepper, it sounds (with my little newly acquired knowledge of touch DNA) that it might be a possibility.

mahmoo
07-20-2008, 04:49 PM
I think the delay in an arrest is pending while they wait for DNA testing results. If NC was possibly killed by someone other than her husband that person's DNA will show up then LE will have the task of trying to determine who the foreign DNA belongs to. If she was murdered in her home (which I think she was), and was even awake when the murder took place, she probably would have put up quite a struggle and would more than likely have tissue/blood from the murderer under her fingernails.

This may be a little far-fetched on my part but, I also hope the ME checked to see if NC may have been pregnant. I say that because her friend that hosted the party stated in an interview that NC looked tired and had not been feeling well........I know that with both my pregnancies I was very tired and generally didn't feel well early in the pregnancy. News of another pregnancy could have been what pushed BC to the brink.

panthera
07-20-2008, 05:41 PM
There's another thing to consider too with her clothes that Mark F. brought up on Fox News and that would be if she were jogging her body would produce sweat and it would be on her clothes. :)

SeriouslySearching
07-20-2008, 05:59 PM
I agree, Panthera. Perspiration would be evident on her clothing including her socks if she had been running.

I can see them checking for touch DNA on the insides of her clothing, but Brad could say the sock was wrong side out when HE was doing the laundry...so his DNA would be there before she took them clean out of the drawer. Same thing with her clothing.

The only reason it works in the Ramsey case is because it was unknown DNA. If it were anyone in the family...they could defend against it.

panthera
07-20-2008, 07:18 PM
I agree, Panthera. Perspiration would be evident on her clothing including her socks if she had been running.

I can see them checking for touch DNA on the insides of her clothing, but Brad could say the sock was wrong side out when HE was doing the laundry...so his DNA would be there before she took them clean out of the drawer. Same thing with her clothing.

The only reason it works in the Ramsey case is because it was unknown DNA. If it were anyone in the family...they could defend against it.
I agree, since they lived together he could say he did the laundry to explain almost anything, except shoelaces, imo.

angelmom
07-20-2008, 08:48 PM
Yeah, a good defense attorney would just say it got on there when the loving and helpful Brad was folding laundry.:rolleyes:

wicket
07-20-2008, 09:18 PM
Didn't they say NC was found in a small pond or a bit of standing water. Would that have any effect on DNA under the fingernails or DNA on clothes? Could that be the reason why she was placed in the water?:confused:

CyberPro
07-20-2008, 09:37 PM
Didn't they say NC was found in a small pond or a bit of standing water. Would that have any effect on DNA under the fingernails or DNA on clothes? Could that be the reason why she was placed in the water?:confused:

As I understand it, she was not actually in the water, rather she was near a small retaining pond, not on the bank of it, but within a few feet of a fence that surrounded the pond. I have not actually been there, but it looked like the pond was about the size of a large kiddie pool.

It did rain quite a bit on Monday, at times it was coming down rather quickly. Not a "Frog Strangling" rain, but enough to get you wet in a hurry.

CyberPro

Snowlover77
07-20-2008, 10:40 PM
I think the delay in an arrest is pending while they wait for DNA testing results. If NC was possibly killed by someone other than her husband that person's DNA will show up then LE will have the task of trying to determine who the foreign DNA belongs to. If she was murdered in her home (which I think she was), and was even awake when the murder took place, she probably would have put up quite a struggle and would more than likely have tissue/blood from the murderer under her fingernails.

This may be a little far-fetched on my part but, I also hope the ME checked to see if NC may have been pregnant. I say that because her friend that hosted the party stated in an interview that NC looked tired and had not been feeling well........I know that with both my pregnancies I was very tired and generally didn't feel well early in the pregnancy. News of another pregnancy could have been what pushed BC to the brink.
That thought crossed my mind as well. It's hard not to entertain thta thought when many of the women are murdered BECAUSE they are pregnant.

sues
07-21-2008, 09:48 PM
I agree, since they lived together he could say he did the laundry to explain almost anything, except shoelaces, imo.

I think you could defend against shoelaces, too. He might have picked her shoes up by the laces to move them or whatever.

I think under the nails would be the only powerful DNA evidence on NC's body. If she didn't scratch him, it's going to take evidence in the home to prove it was BC.

panthera
07-21-2008, 09:51 PM
I think you could defend against shoelaces, too. He might have picked her shoes up by the laces to move them or whatever.

I think under the nails would be the only powerful DNA evidence on NC's body. If she didn't scratch him, it's going to take evidence in the home to prove it was BC.
Speaking of the shoelaces, I heard someone offering an opinion on tv, and it was suggested one way to tell if Nancy had been dressed after she was killed was by how the laces were tied. Like someone other than her would be facing her and tie them differently. Anyone else hear this?

sues
07-21-2008, 09:51 PM
Regarding a previous poster on sweat on her clothing:

A physical fight could have caused her to sweat, so if she only had her underwear on, they would probably find evidence of sweat. Also, adrenaline would be up in her body due to either running or a fight...

If she was wearing more clothing than just underwear, I wonder if they could tell if she was in a struggle or not. For example, if it were a tee shirt, did it have pulls on it?

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 01:02 AM
Yes, a physical fight would cause her to perspire. However, if she were dressed in jogging clothes after the murder, the perspiration wouldn't be concentrated in areas you would normally see with a runner. Under the arms, small of the back, chest area are places this would be seen, imo. Dressing her afterwards would mean the perspiration would be spread pretty much all over the clothes instead.

CyberPro
07-22-2008, 01:10 AM
Regarding a previous poster on sweat on her clothing:

A physical fight could have caused her to sweat, so if she only had her underwear on, they would probably find evidence of sweat. Also, adrenaline would be up in her body due to either running or a fight...

If she was wearing more clothing than just underwear, I wonder if they could tell if she was in a struggle or not. For example, if it were a tee shirt, did it have pulls on it?

Sues,

I think in an earlier post you opined that the only place DNA will help is under her fingernails. I agree. They were married, and while there was strain in the situation, and entirely possible that they had not engaged in a physical consumation of that relationship for a while, his DNA on her person can be easily explained away, unless it is under her fingernails. That would be much more difficult, as would any of his hair being under her nails.

If her clothing is torn, this could have happened if she were struggling with anyone, not just BC, but if the clothing is NOT torn, this means something different. If she were wearing something else, or nothing when she was killed and subsequently dressed, there would be no direct sweating onto the clothing, but if she did sweat during the confrontation, some might have been transferred from her body to the clothing, although not in the normal patterns. If the clothing is not torn, but there are signs of a struggle, like DNA under the fingernails, this means that she was dressed after she was killed, or that she was compliant with her killer.

CyberPro