PDA

View Full Version : Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #14


Pages : [1] 2 3

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 09:18 PM
Please continue here...

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 09:23 PM
Here you go: 911 OPERATOR: … Emergency.
RELATIVE: Somebody’s killed two girls on — My daughter, my grandbaby and — her friend. I’m on County Line Road.
911 OPERATOR: What happened down there?
RELATIVE: I don’t know. They went for a walk and they’re both, they’re dead.
911 OPERATOR: Your daughter’s dead?
RELATIVE: They’re dead!
911 OPERATOR: Your granddaughter?
RELATIVE: Yes and my, her friend
911 OPERATOR: Ok. Where’s this at ma’am? Stay calm.
RELATIVE: I’m on County Line Road.
911 OPERATOR: Which County Line Road?
RELATIVE: On Bryant Road.
911 OPERATOR: On Bryant Road?
RELATIVE: Yes, … oh my God, I’m having an, I don’t know, help me please.

911 OPERATOR: OK ma’am I need you to stay calm so we can get out there to you ok?
RELATIVE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: Let me pull my map and try and find out where you’re at.
RELATIVE: Route 1, 185.
911 OPERATOR: OK. We can’t look them up with the routes.
RELATIVE: Oh, please, please, please, please, please! Lord, help me, please.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Just stay on the line with me.
RELATIVE: Oh God, oh God, oh God, oh God! My God, my God, my baby!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,387482,00.html

Tom'sGirl
07-21-2008, 09:24 PM
Please continue here...
Okay I will :)

I'm not impressed with Jessica Brown. The point of releasing a portion of the 911 tape I get, but not answering as to who was on that tape I don't get!

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 09:25 PM
I have pretty expensive headphones..professional dj headphones that pick up a lot.
This is what I hear on the call before 911 answers.
It is a child in the background...not an elderly person, not a toddler.
It sounds like a female child say, "He thinks they're dead"
At that point the caller (Vicky??) said, "WHAAAT!!!" (in disbelief), and then says "WHHHAT" again as she starts to cry.
911 then answers. SEE transcript above.


I also think it's interesting the way Brown says more than once "we know someone out there knows something."
Not, we HOPE, or we believe, but we KNOW.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 09:25 PM
Here is the direct link to the 911 call: http://www.news9.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=2714379&h1=EXTRA%3A%20Full%20press%20conference%20on%20Wel eetka%20update&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=385433&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&rnd=24688316

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 09:27 PM
Okay I will :)

I'm not impressed with Jessica Brown. The point of releasing a portion of the 911 tape I get, but not answering as to who was on that tape I don't get!I don't understand either. Does she think we are a State or Nation of idiots that couldn't figure that one out?! Makes them look bad, imo.

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 09:28 PM
Here is the direct link to the 911 call including the "Run...Run!" part: http://www.news9.com/global/video/fl...o&rnd=30858314

Thank you..I'm going to listen to this now.

christine2448
07-21-2008, 09:29 PM
Please continue here...

thanks..been a bit preoccupied. ;)

EnvoyDriver61
07-21-2008, 09:31 PM
There sure sounds like more than 1 or 2 or even 3 people were at the crime scene when the 911 call is made.

I'm wondering if that's the reason they have been elusive about numbers of witnesses, timing of the 911 call, etc. It's beginning to sound like they are protecting someone who was there and did see more than we have been informed about.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 09:32 PM
I have pretty expensive headphones..professional dj headphones that pick up a lot.
This is what I hear on the call before 911 answers.
It is a child in the background...not an elderly person, not a toddler.
It sounds like a female child say, "He thinks they're dead"
At that point the caller (Vicky??) said, "WHAAAT!!!" (in disbelief), and then says "WHHHAT" again as she starts to cry.
911 then answers. SEE transcript above.


I also think it's interesting the way Brown says more than once "we know someone out there knows something."
Not, we HOPE, or we believe, but we KNOW.So who had a child around there in the Placker family?!

cloudajo
07-21-2008, 09:33 PM
I have pretty expensive headphones..professional dj headphones that pick up a lot.
This is what I hear on the call before 911 answers.
It is a child in the background...not an elderly person, not a toddler.
It sounds like a female child say, "He thinks they're dead"
At that point the caller (Vicky??) said, "WHAAAT!!!" (in disbelief), and then says "WHHHAT" again as she starts to cry.
911 then answers. SEE transcript above.


I also think it's interesting the way Brown says more than once "we know someone out there knows something."
Not, we HOPE, or we believe, but we KNOW.

Thanks. That's what I hear too. Heartwrenching, isn't it?

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 09:33 PM
SS the link to the "RUN" part is not working.

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 09:36 PM
Thanks. That's what I hear too. Heartwrenching, isn't it?

It's horrible. :(
It's very clear to me what is said once I put my headphones on and listen.
Even with regular headphones, I suggest everyone listen to the tape that way..you can pick up more and it's clearer.

LifeSaver
07-21-2008, 09:38 PM
How could we hear anything before 911 answers?

Beyond Belief
07-21-2008, 09:39 PM
Wasn't the uncle interviewed at the scene, after flowers had been placed, and he had a boy with him.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 09:40 PM
I think I fixed it now, Evelyn. Thanks for letting me know!

http://www.news9.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=2714379&h1=EXTRA%3A%20Full%20press%20conference%20on%20Wel eetka%20update&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=385433&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&rnd=24688316

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 09:41 PM
How could we hear anything before 911 answers?Because 911 answered and was rerouting the call.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 09:43 PM
If I have to hear their "3 prong approach" explanation again I am going to scream. Ugh!

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 09:45 PM
Can you hear specifically with the headphones when the vehicle stops? Does it continue after the tape stops?

frogjustfrog
07-21-2008, 09:46 PM
It's coming up on 9pm. I am stopping to pray at 9pm as planned last night.

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 09:46 PM
I think I fixed it now, Evelyn. Thanks for letting me know!

http://www.news9.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=2714379&h1=EXTRA%3A%20Full%20press%20conference%20on%20Wel eetka%20update&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=385433&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&rnd=24688316

thank you for fixing it.


PS. ok..911 already answered and what I heard was what was said as they rerouted the call. Sorry for the confusion.

GetSmart
07-21-2008, 09:47 PM
I'm sorry but what is the "expert" in victimolgy" Beth she appears to be in her 20's.. I don't know there is so much more.. they could be doing.
So Members of the FBI & Retired Agents are helping today.. is this correct? TODAY? When asked about the info ..cell phones, computer ect is there info they are not releasing..Jessica says " Alot of it" Also in regards to 911 call she was asked if that was the only 911 call..."To the best of my knowledge" WTH !! So many unanswered questions.. We have to pray tonight that God puts in on someones heart to the point they can't function until they come forward with the needed info. JMO

I brought my post over because I wanted to remind about our prayer.
The ALOT statement..That goes hand in hand with what yall were saying about her Ms Brown saying SOMEONE..
There were certain statements that were just stronger imo

missmuffit
07-21-2008, 09:47 PM
I have pretty expensive headphones..professional dj headphones that pick up a lot.
This is what I hear on the call before 911 answers.
It is a child in the background...not an elderly person, not a toddler.
It sounds like a female child say, "He thinks they're dead"
At that point the caller (Vicky??) said, "WHAAAT!!!" (in disbelief), and then says "WHHHAT" again as she starts to cry.
911 then answers. SEE transcript above.


I also think it's interesting the way Brown says more than once "we know someone out there knows something."
Not, we HOPE, or we believe, but we KNOW.

I agree with Evelyn in what is being said prior to the call being picked up by the dispatcher. It sounds like GMa is saying what, what, with the first what almost in a question as to have the person in the background repeat what they just said and then the second what was said in shock as to what she just heard. You can also tell the exact moment on the tape when she reaches the scene.

I also question why the info is now changing 6 weeks after the fact. I understand not releasing info and keeping hush on certain aspects of the case. This is done to help LE in their investigations but unless they are trying mess up the killers with the misleading info WHY would they want to mislead the public who can only HELP them. I guess that I am just confused. :waitasec:

MM ~

GetSmart
07-21-2008, 09:49 PM
If I have to hear their "3 prong approach" explanation again I am going to scream. Ugh!
yes yes yes I feel your pain.


MissM you might be on to something there
I also question why the info is now changing 6 weeks after the fact. I understand not releasing info and keeping hush on certain aspects of the case. This is done to help LE in their investigations but unless they are trying mess up the killers with the misleading info WHY would they want to mislead the public who can only HELP them. I guess that I am just confused. :waitasec:

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 09:50 PM
Can you hear specifically with the headphones when the vehicle stops? Does it continue after the tape stops?

I thought vehicle noise was from the presser, not the tape?
Hold on, I'm going to listen to the entire tape again with the headphones..I was just focusing on the first part before the rerouted call was picked up.

LifeSaver
07-21-2008, 09:56 PM
In an eariler report I had heard Linda, the older daughter was at their house at the time of the murders

Beyond Belief
07-21-2008, 09:57 PM
are u sure the first shouted words were What What. It doesn't sound like that to me. sounds more like one or juan.

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 09:59 PM
Ok, the word "RUN" was not said. She said, "my daughter and her FRIEND!!!!!. She screamed the word friend and I think that is where you think you hear "RUN."
ALso, it sounds as if the truck noise comes from the mics at the presser, picking up cars and trucks passing by, and it was not in the 911 tape.
The vehicle noise (sounds like a truck) is much louder and clearer than the tape of the call.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 09:59 PM
Get Smart~ If you will look closely at Victimology gal...notice the furrows in her browline and other taletell signs that she is in her mid 30s, imo. LOL (Women notice those things.)

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 10:00 PM
Now you are sure she didn't say that? Hmmm...everytime I heard it so clearly. You are listening to the one where the phone is ringing in the background right?

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 10:03 PM
are u sure the first shouted words were What What. It doesn't sound like that to me. sounds more like one or juan.

I'm sure.
A younger female (age..I don't know) says, "He thinks they're dead."
That's when the female caller yells, "WHAAAT" in disbelief, and she yells it again as she starts to breakdown, "WHHHAT", then the dispatcher picks up the call.

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 10:08 PM
Now you are sure she didn't say that? Hmmm...everytime I heard it so clearly. You are listening to the one where the phone is ringing in the background right?

SS, tell me what she says right before you hear "run"??
The only thing that sounds remotely like "run" is when she saids, my daughter and her FRIIIIEEND.
She screams and drags out the word friend, but that's what she says.
I listened to the link you gave above a couple of times.
:confused:

LifeSaver
07-21-2008, 10:08 PM
My heart goes out to that Peter Placker, did everyone catch the interview on Fox 23. With Peter, and Whitaker

LifeSaver
07-21-2008, 10:10 PM
This case going on in Florida is puzzling, I guess the mother either murdered the two year old, or sold her???

Busylady
07-21-2008, 10:10 PM
Where you hear Whaaat - hear the word run.

I have pretty expensive headphones..professional dj headphones that pick up a lot.
This is what I hear on the call before 911 answers.
It is a child in the background...not an elderly person, not a toddler.
It sounds like a female child say, "He thinks they're dead"
At that point the caller (Vicky??) said, "WHAAAT!!!" (in disbelief), and then says "WHHHAT" again as she starts to cry.
911 then answers. SEE transcript above.


I also think it's interesting the way Brown says more than once "we know someone out there knows something."
Not, we HOPE, or we believe, but we KNOW.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 10:14 PM
Was the press conference possibly held today, SO they could say the retired FBI agents were there to help...notice the wording TODAY...

Do the agents on this case have much experience investigating murder cases?
How long have they been with the OSBI?
Hope they aren't right out of college....jmoI don't think we need to keep going over this...but they are NOT right out of college!

1995 - April 19th, twenty minutes after a bomb ripped through the heart of downtown Oklahoma City, and hours before anyone knew exactly what had happened, OSBI Director A. DeWade Langley sends out a request for all available OSBI agents to respond to the scene at the Alfred P. Murrah Building. Forty agents from across the state respond.

Seventy-three OSBI employees worked directly on the bombing case. This agency is proud of their professionalism and their dedication to furthering the agency's mission, especially in such a difficult case.

There are at least 40 of them that are NOT fresh from college. Does this help you?

And yes...they have solved other murder investigations in the state. This is not their first.

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 10:15 PM
Where you hear Whaaat - hear the word run.

I hear something completely different.

A younger female says, "He thinks they're dead" , and the female caller in response yells back, "Whaaat?" "Whaaat?", then even a "huh" at the end as if she's trying to hear what's being said but also listening for the call to pick up.
The dispatcher then answers.

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 10:17 PM
I don't think we need to keep going over this...but they are NOT right out of college!

1995 - April 19th, twenty minutes after a bomb ripped through the heart of downtown Oklahoma City, and hours before anyone knew exactly what had happened, OSBI Director A. DeWade Langley sends out a request for all available OSBI agents to respond to the scene at the Alfred P. Murrah Building. Forty agents from across the state respond.

Seventy-three OSBI employees worked directly on the bombing case. This agency is proud of their professionalism and their dedication to furthering the agency's mission, especially in such a difficult case.

There are at least 40 of them that are NOT fresh from college. Does this help you?

I don't think the the girl was right out of college either, she looks like early thirties.

GetSmart
07-21-2008, 10:27 PM
Ok you guys got me.. But it is hard for me tell because I am on the laptop and half blind lol

I still think maybe MissM might be on to something, at least I would feel better if I thought they were playing head games w/killer in regards to leading public to think something else

Busylady
07-21-2008, 10:30 PM
It is so interesting how different people can listen and hear different things. Son listened to it and he says a man is yelling in the background I think they're dead, he hears what what and then starting around 5:12 he hears going toward Culman (sp) Rd where my daughter lives.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 10:31 PM
I hear something completely different.

A younger female says, "He thinks they're dead" , and the female caller in response yells back, "Whaaat?" "Whaaat?", then even a "huh" at the end as if she's trying to hear what's being said but also listening for the call to pick up.
The dispatcher then answers.Yes, it does say Whaaat instead of run. I finally heard that T sound on the end of it. (need to get my hearing checked I guess! LOL)

Altho...could be a younger male voice.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 10:34 PM
Is the following correct?
seems on America's Most Wanted web site that Vickie's Mother called 911 also..

Caller says, Yes, Somebody has killed my 2 girls over at my daughters.
My grand baby and her daughters friend.
I'm on Killingworth road etc. etc..

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=56421NO! AGAIN! AMW IS WRONG WRONG WRONG! I am SO angry about that one I could spit cotton. WTH is wrong with those people?!?! :mad:

And this time they messed up HUGE! What an awful thing to put on there!!

It is Countyline road, Bryant road, and Coleman road mentioned. (I would have to assume that Coleman road is in reference to someone's name since those roads are listed by their county numbers. It is how we used to designate those roads around our little community.)

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 10:34 PM
Is the following correct?
seems on America's Most Wanted web site that Vickie's Mother called 911 also..

Caller says, Yes, Somebody has killed my 2 girls over at my daughters.
My grand baby and her daughters friend.
I'm on Killingworth road etc. etc..

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=56421


See, this is why things get twisted..not you, but the media not doing proper research...especially AMW! WTH!!
The caller clearly uses the term, "My daughter, My Grandbaby, and her daught...her friend".
She's panicked and stumbling on her words, but I think it's definitely Vicky.

evelyn24
07-21-2008, 10:36 PM
LOL!!
SS look at what we posted the same time.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 10:37 PM
Think...Jessica Brown is the public officer for the OSBI. In other words...the spokesperson. No, she is not out doing interviews on suspects just for the media. The other woman, Beth, is working in "Victimology" which is essentially doing profiling of the victims of a crime. She studies their behaviors prior to their deaths, their associations, and develops theories based on those studies. I don't think she is out doing interviews of suspects either.

CMorrison64
07-21-2008, 10:38 PM
I finally got to listen to some of it and I hear "He thinks they're dead" and the anguished "whaaat' "Whhhaaat" I have to admit it, it shook me to the core.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 10:39 PM
LOL!!
SS look at what we posted the same time.I know! I saw that earlier because someone was kind enough to send me the link. I was so ticked off!! (I am writing them a rant tonight!!)

frogjustfrog
07-21-2008, 10:45 PM
NO! AGAIN! AMW IS WRONG WRONG WRONG! I am SO angry about that one I could spit cotton. WTH is wrong with those people?!?! :mad:

And this time they messed up HUGE! What an awful thing to put on there!!

It is Countyline road, Bryant road, and Coleman road mentioned. (I would have to assume that Coleman road is in reference to someone's name since those roads are listed by their county numbers. It is how we used to designate those roads around our little community.)

I dont know. I asked Lifesaver cuz her friend Sheza said she lives in the vicinity. (I think she said it on Topix on night) but I guess lifesaver lost connection like I did when the server was busy cuz she never answered me. So I asked again if any locals knew, and no one answered again. I am a local, but I dont remember a Coleman Rd. Maybe its the road just south of Placeres that turns into the area they used to call flamesville. I have been checking mapquest and I cant figure where Coleman Road is.

Busylady
07-21-2008, 10:48 PM
The bridge along County Line Road where the girls' bodies were found is a popular place for teens to gather and shoot guns, Rosser said earlier this week. The location is more than three miles northeast of Weleetka, about 70 miles south of Tulsa, and is about one-fourth of a mile from Taylor's home, near Coleman Road

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080614_12_A4_spancl222893

frogjustfrog
07-21-2008, 10:56 PM
The bridge along County Line Road where the girls' bodies were found is a popular place for teens to gather and shoot guns, Rosser said earlier this week. The location is more than three miles northeast of Weleetka, about 70 miles south of Tulsa, and is about one-fourth of a mile from Taylor's home, near Coleman Road

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080614_12_A4_spancl222893

Weird. There is another road just south of Plackers on the east side, that is the southern line of Okmulgee County. Maybe this is it.

Sry, this prob has me more bewildered than anyone cuz I grew up down that way and never heard of Coleman Rd.

I just wish we had answers! I feel so distraught by all this, as I believe all of you feel the same way.

Tom'sGirl
07-21-2008, 10:56 PM
I dont know. I asked Lifesaver cuz her friend Sheza said she lives in the vicinity. (I think she said it on Topix on night) but I guess lifesaver lost connection like I did when the server was busy cuz she never answered me. So I asked again if any locals knew, and no one answered again. I am a local, but I dont remember a Coleman Rd. Maybe its the road just south of Placeres that turns into the area they used to call flamesville. I have been checking mapquest and I cant figure where Coleman Road is.

Way back Coleman Road was mentioned:

Both were shot several times each along the west side of County Line Road (N. 3890 Road), about one-fourth of a mile from Taylor's home, near Coleman Road.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080611_12_A1_Rwrsof551521 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080611_12_A1_Rwrsof551521 )

frogjustfrog
07-21-2008, 10:57 PM
In an eariler report I had heard Linda, the older daughter was at their house at the time of the murders

What report was that? That would mean then probably, that the girls were NOT home alone after all.

frogjustfrog
07-21-2008, 11:03 PM
Seems like people have kinda dropped the theory about the Patterson hermit like man who lives almost due west of them. I wonder how we can explore more about him? Like if he drives, and what he drives, and if he was ever seen walking that road, and things like that.

belimom
07-21-2008, 11:09 PM
Okay, I'm new here... And I've *tried* to read all the threads but haven't plowed through it completely yet. I had a couple of observations that could be way off or just coincidental:

- if you search the offender registry for Oklahoma and find a picture of Christopher Placker, you could make yourself see a resemblance to the guy in the sketch, if he had longer hair, etc. Am I the only one who sees this?

- Vicky and Peter both have criminal records, too. It sure seems to me like they are innocent, though.

- my husband (who does not get into this stuff at all) didn't even know about this case. :rolleyes: .. So I was filling him in and he couldn't believe that the grandparents didn't hear gunshots. I agree with that since I grew up in a rural area where hunting is popular and you can hear a gunshot a long ways off even in a wooded area. I mentioned the possible use a silencer, and he said that ballistics would show if a silencer was used or not.

Just trying to cover bases and not point the finger at innocent people, but - did Peter actually talk to Skyla's mother, or did Vicky? Just thinking of the timeline. IF you wanted to follow someone on a dirt road and hurt them and have an excuse for your footprints being there, that would be a good story - that you had to go find them for such-and-such reason. Also, if the family has so many run-ins with the law and alot of connections to gangs (Banditos?) or serious criminals, then perhaps Peter and Vicky do know more but are keeping their mouths shut out of fear.

Again, I apologize if this has been said before or if I am waaaaay off. My gut tells me that P/V are not involved in the actual killing, but my head tells me that at a minimum they might know something. Just had to unload my thoughts here... :o ... and get some feedback. Thanks.

Claycat
07-21-2008, 11:12 PM
Welcome, Belimom!

LifeSaver
07-21-2008, 11:13 PM
Coleman Rd, is the blacktop south of Plackers it comes off highway 75

LifeSaver
07-21-2008, 11:16 PM
that road goes to Arbeka Indian Church, and on to Chanceys Farm.

LifeSaver
07-21-2008, 11:17 PM
it always goes west which would take you to Pattersons house

LifeSaver
07-21-2008, 11:19 PM
that is a blind section line. the road used to go back to highway 75 years ago. Those roads are 2 miles sections out there

LifeSaver
07-21-2008, 11:21 PM
Yeah, welcome Belimom

frogjustfrog
07-21-2008, 11:28 PM
that is a blind section line. the road used to go back to highway 75 years ago. Those roads are 2 miles sections out there

Oh. Ok. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Then Coleman Road is the road that used to be paved and went on into Weleetka. The one where the curve USED to be. That's waaaaaaaaaaay on down there past Flamesville Rd. Its titled 1140 on mapquest.

And now I see the road that goes up to Patterson's. It is just a little bit past Plackers. Little bitty road, cant hardly see it for the trees on here. He must live in a itty bitty house. I heard that is the old Patterson homestead.

Thanks again.

SeriouslySearching
07-21-2008, 11:35 PM
Welcome to WS, Belimom! You sound like you have read quite a bit! I have gotten to where I just don't know what to think anymore about who did this. I didn't think before that the Plackers could be involved in any way, but now I am even teetering on that.

A local that FC knows says the Plackers were not home which could explain why they didn't hear the shots. OSBI said it was because the wind was blowing so fierce that day (I remember and it certainly was). Wind could carry the sound away from the house. Either way, who knows now what they heard because the OSBI has been lying about so much of the case...as we found out today. (Shaking my head)

frogjustfrog
07-21-2008, 11:37 PM
Welcome Belimom. I think people on here are just soooooooooo worn out after being let down again today, by OSBI. It would be hard to catch you up and I know reading all these threads are so time consuming, that by the time you get them all read, there is that many more again!
I think the best way to catch up is to go where the links are posted and see some videos and stuff.
Sry I cant help much more.

LifeSaver
07-21-2008, 11:38 PM
Yes it is the old homeplace, Newmans live up there also. As a matter of fact several homes in that area.

frogjustfrog
07-21-2008, 11:39 PM
Welcome to WS, Belimom! You sound like you have read quite a bit! I have gotten to where I just don't know what to think anymore about who did this. I didn't think before that the Plackers could be involved in any way, but now I am even teetering on that.

A local that FC knows says the Plackers were not home which could explain why they didn't hear the shots. OSBI said it was because the wind was blowing so fierce that day (I remember and it certainly was). Wind could carry the sound away from the house. Either way, who knows now what they heard because the OSBI has been lying about so much of the case...as we found out today. (Shaking my head)


SS, I LOVE the way you have changed the way your messages appear! Nice thinking! you get the point across that is for sure!:)

frogjustfrog
07-21-2008, 11:48 PM
that road goes to Arbeka Indian Church, and on to Chanceys Farm.


Oops again. I think I got 'cha wrong. The road, almost immediately after Plackers, that turns back east, is Coleman Road? That is where that Arbeka Church is. I remember us stopping there and reading the sign when we went out there. And it goes on down, then twists and turns back up to Chanceys at Bryant Road.

So if the Road that goes to Arbeka Church is Coleman Road, then I was wrong. It is 1130 Road. Wow you cant even tell that it ever went west to 75. No wonder I dont remember my way around there anymore. If you remember, I was a child when I used to go up and down all those roads with Dad. That would have been in the 70's? lol no? 60's then. lol

Tom'sGirl
07-21-2008, 11:52 PM
Okay, I'm new here... And I've *tried* to read all the threads but haven't plowed through it completely yet. I had a couple of observations that could be way off or just coincidental:

- if you search the offender registry for Oklahoma and find a picture of Christopher Placker, you could make yourself see a resemblance to the guy in the sketch, if he had longer hair, etc. Am I the only one who sees this?

Welcome belimom. No, I don't see a resemblance:

White Male; 5 ft. 5 in. tall; 130 pounds; Brown hair; Brown eyes; and he's 28 years old.

frogjustfrog
07-21-2008, 11:59 PM
Welcome belimom. No, I don't see a resemblance:

White Male; 5 ft. 5 in. tall; 130 pounds; Brown hair; Brown eyes; and he's 28 years old.
Does anyone have a quick link to that? or is it on our links page?

Tom'sGirl
07-22-2008, 12:02 AM
Does anyone have a quick link to that? or is it on our links page?

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=282586&offender_book_id=172202

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 12:07 AM
Thank you TG. You are always so sweet. :)I could see a little resemblence, if his hair was long and he was shaven. The height doesnt fit tho.
But IF there really is a POI, and IF someone really did see him, couldnt they be off on the height? I guess that depends on who is telling the story and why.
I'm just not trusting much of anyone these days. I feel myself lookinf for him at Walmart in Tulsa! eeks!

Tom'sGirl
07-22-2008, 12:08 AM
Thank you TG. You are always so sweet. :)I could see a little resemblence, if his hair was long and he was shaven. The height doesnt fit tho.
But IF there really is a POI, and IF someone really did see him, couldnt they be off on the height? I guess that depends on who is telling the story and why.
I'm just not trusting much of anyone these days. I feel myself lookinf for him at Walmart in Tulsa! eeks!
Yeah, at only 5'5" not even my teeny mom would think he was 6 feet tall :)

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 12:09 AM
SS, I LOVE the way you have changed the way your messages appear! Nice thinking! you get the point across that is for sure!:)Thanks, Frog! :) Nothing wrong with everyone seeing this POI's sketch on here! You never know.

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 12:10 AM
AND.... I am still not sure that they havent already talked to him yet, that he had a made up alibi, and that he is as cold as ice and could've passed a polygraph test! They may even think so themselves, but without evidence. hmmmmmmmm
What if Placker is who descibed the poi and they dont want him to know that cuz they suspect he is a deadly killer?

I think my mind is going crazy. What if.... what if.....
I think I need a break.

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 12:15 AM
I tell you, today's presser just took the wind right out my sails on this one. I feel I need to change directions and start over. (Or paddle back to shore and put the boat in dry dock.)

close_enough
07-22-2008, 12:17 AM
Thanks. That's what I hear too. Heartwrenching, isn't it?

yes, i heard it earlier also:(

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 12:18 AM
No, you are right that road is 1130 that goes to Arbeka Church, and after making a couple of calls, I myself was wrong, Coleman road is about a two mile stretch from Bryant Rd and Country Line road, Sorry for the confusion.

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 12:22 AM
I'm with you SS. I keep going back and adding, subtracting and it just doesn't make sense. I'm back to, two girls murdered on county line road, footprints, tire prints, shell casings. And a sketch of a man, I've never laid my eyes on.

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 12:30 AM
Hi gang..I just had to take a break. I was so deflated and just blah after that presser today too SS. Like Frog said like the new pic!! I tried to post earlier but kept getting the busy server message..

Frog have you ever been over to God Tube? I love that site.

I am so not getting it. What do you really think the reason is for all the mis-info...including AMW..errrrrrrrrr

Tom'sGirl
07-22-2008, 12:36 AM
Hi gang..I just had to take a break. I was so deflated and just blah after that presser today too SS. Like Frog said like the new pic!! I tried to post earlier but kept getting the busy server message..

I am so not getting it. What do you really think the reason is for all the mis-info...including AMW..errrrrrrrrr

I contribute it to poor communications from within, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand has reported.

As for AMW, they've disgusted me for some time now on their poor coverage and accuracy on several other cases.

KR2tonenow
07-22-2008, 12:42 AM
Here is the direct link to the 911 call: http://www.news9.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=2714379&h1=EXTRA%3A%20Full%20press%20conference%20on%20Wel eetka%20update&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=385433&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&rnd=24688316

Although, I am glad they have finally released the 911 call, I can also see why they waited. Highly emotionally and traumatizing. I gather this was Skyla's Moma and cannot comprehend the pain she must be going through to see her daugther and friend murdered.

I hope this brings out "the someone" that Jessica Brown keeps leading on to: a friend, a neighbor, a family member, someone needs to speak out.
I hope they get the results they need.

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 12:52 AM
I'm just sitting here dumbfounded. My eyelasshes are glued together from the tears (and mascara) my house hasnt been cleaned well in weeks. I started sewing a jacket and now lost interest. I havent felt this much trauma over news since the bombing at OKC )I worked 2 blocks from there a few years before it happened, and I used to eat lunch with the girls on the plaxa of the Murrah building alot of nice sunshiney days).
I really feel this is taking it's toll on me. I am becoming afraid of everyone I dont know. We have more than our share of shootings in Tulsa this last couple of weeks.

I need another Christian retreat. I'm feeling weak. I really may have to take a break for awhile and just read email. This whole thing is confusing and frustrating and I cant stand it that a vicious cold blooded monster is walking among us and OSBI cant even get it right!
Keep me in your prayers if you would. I may just watch occasionally and checkmy messages.

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 12:52 AM
KR2tonenow; ]Although, I am glad they have finally released the 911 call, I can also see why they waited. Highly emotionally and traumatizing. I gather this was Skyla's Moma and cannot comprehend the pain she must be going through to see her daugther and friend murdered.


I was thinking it was Vicky, Taylor's mom / grandma

Fairy1
07-22-2008, 01:10 AM
I'm just sitting here dumbfounded. My eyelasshes are glued together from the tears (and mascara) my house hasnt been cleaned well in weeks. I started sewing a jacket and now lost interest. I havent felt this much trauma over news since the bombing at OKC )I worked 2 blocks from there a few years before it happened, and I used to eat lunch with the girls on the plaxa of the Murrah building alot of nice sunshiney days).
I really feel this is taking it's toll on me. I am becoming afraid of everyone I dont know. We have more than our share of shootings in Tulsa this last couple of weeks.

I need another Christian retreat. I'm feeling weak. I really may have to take a break for awhile and just read email. This whole thing is confusing and frustrating and I cant stand it that a vicious cold blooded monster is walking among us and OSBI cant even get it right!
Keep me in your prayers if you would. I may just watch occasionally and checkmy messages.

:blowkiss: No worries - they will find this (these) POS. I have no problem with LE withholding information - that tells me they know what they're doing. Though our intentions are good - we are NOT LE. We are the public and they know what they're doing by holding back details. This is a bewildering case to be sure. But please don't be discouraged. They are most likely on the right track and we should not second guess their actions. IMO, of course! Take care of yourself...

KR2tonenow
07-22-2008, 01:20 AM
KR2tonenow; ]Although, I am glad they have finally released the 911 call, I can also see why they waited. Highly emotionally and traumatizing. I gather this was Skyla's Moma and cannot comprehend the pain she must be going through to see her daugther and friend murdered.I was thinking it was Vicky, Taylor's mom / grandma

I'm going by memory here, this is the one case, I actually was involved on from the first thread (don't have the time to catch up on the others, but I TRY!!:)

Anyway, I recall the Grandpa saying that he called the mother of Skyla and she was going down the road in her car the opposite direction. He stopped her, then asked her to call 911.

I think that's why there's the, "What? Whaaaat?... because she had no clue at first what the issue was. Then of course, "they" meaning family members or witnesses, pronounced them dead and she just snapped. Quite understandably.

I think OSBI rationale behind the releasing of the 911 tapes is drawing on the communities emotions and hoping "someone" will feel guilty enough to come forward. JMO

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 01:20 AM
:blowkiss: No worries - they will find this (these) POS. I have no problem with LE withholding information - that tells me they know what they're doing. Though our intentions are good - we are NOT LE. We are the public and they know what they're doing by holding back details. This is a bewildering case to be sure. But please don't be discouraged. They are most likely on the right track and we should not second guess their actions. IMO, of course! Take care of yourself...

Thank you honey, God bless you and Godbless you all!

Fairy1
07-22-2008, 01:24 AM
Thank you honey, God bless you and Godbless you all!

:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss: Take care!

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 01:26 AM
I knew I had this ..


Taylor's grandfather, Peter Placker (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Peter+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON), found the girls about of a mile from their home after the girls went for a walk Sunday evening and didn't return. Placker (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Peter+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON) went looking for the girls after Taylor couldn't be reached on her cell phone. Placker (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Peter+Placker&CATEGORY=PERSON) used Taylor's cell phone to place a 911 call, Ross (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Ben+Ross&CATEGORY=PERSON) said.

http://www.newsok.com/clues-sought-in-slaying-of-girls-in-weleetka/article/3255420/undefined?pg=1 (http://www.newsok.com/clues-sought-in-slaying-of-girls-in-weleetka/article/3255420/undefined?pg=1)

Oh Frog Bless your heart. I just read above. Will be praying for your comfort..

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 01:31 AM
Here is another article that I had forgot about. After I re-read it humm

A neighbor, Ross Padgett, said drugs and the criminal element are worse than ever.

"Marijuana, meth, coke, you name it," he said. "A number of the meth cookers are right over in this community. They are busting them so hard in the cities, they are going rural." He lifted his shirt to reveal a 9 mm pistol, saying, "I'm not worried."

He said his 10-year-old son, Dakota, arms himself with a knife when he goes out to play on the family's land. The boy has also been trained with a gun.

"I'm good with a shot," Dakota said. "I'm pretty good with almost any gun."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/10/national/main4168258.shtml?source=mostpop_story (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/10/national/main4168258.shtml?source=mostpop_story)

Hey RoseRed you might be right about the gun thing sorry

anneinchicago
07-22-2008, 02:25 AM
Arbeka Indian Church? And the suspect/witness might be native American?

FlowerChild
07-22-2008, 02:39 AM
Catch Up Here:
Posters: Please feel free to add anything I do not have noted

Sunday June 8th

Skyla Whitaker had spent the previous night with her best friend Taylor Paschal Placker at the Placker Home on County Line Road (about 5 miles N of Weleetka OK, aprox 2 miles E of US 75 and about 5 miles S of I-40)

The Area
Weleetka has a population of 950 people with a median income of $21,400, ($15,000 under the Oklahoma median income).

Okfuskee County has a population of 12,000,with 18 people per sq. mile. It is 75% rural and 25% urban. 23% of Okfuskee COunty residents are below the poverty line. 23% of the population is American Indian, 10% African American and 1.6% Hispanic - with the balance being White.

Crime in Okfuskee County
There was 1 murder, 0 rapes, 0 robberies, 3 assaults, 23 burglaries and 16 auto thefts in 2005
There was 1 murder, 0 rapes, 0 robberies, 19 assaults, 37 burglaries, 27 thefts and 12 auto thefts in 2004

The Aprox Timeline (Sunday June 8th)
4:30 PM Rose calls Skyla on her cell phone and speaks with her - everything normal Rose is at the Chancey Bad Creek Farm where her mother is employed
?:00 PM Girls leave Placker House to walk to bridge 1/2 mile North - accompanied by Taylor's Chihuahau - the dog was found the next day near the Bad Creek Bridge
5:08 PM Rose calls Skyla's cell phone and gets no answer
5:10 PM Rose calls the Plackers on their cell phone (they are not at home, but we have no info as to where they were or how long they had been gone from home)
5:15 PM The Plackers call Taylor on her cell phone, get no answer
5:20 PM The Plackers arrive home
5:30 PM Peter searches for the girls and discovers girls dead on side of road 1/4 mile N of house
?:00 PM Peter and or Vicky Placker call 911 (a portion of one 911 call from we believe Vicky Placker was released by OSBI July 21)
?:00 PM Peter Placker calls Rose Whitaker and tells her the girls are dead (he said "they're gone, we came home and found them dead" Per Rose)
5:41 PM LE/EMT dispatched to scene
?:00 PM Rose Whitaker arrives at scene driving in from N of the crime scene - she is flagged down by Peter Placker and prevented from approaching the bodies
?:00 PM Rose Whitaker calls her Mother Claudia Farrow (who is just N at the Chancey's Bad Creek Farm) and tells her the girls are dead and to come
?:00 PM 1st Responders arrive at scene, stopping at the Placker home 1st (they thought the girls were found dead at the Placker home)
?:00 PM Scene is secured - the road is closed at both the N and S intersections
?:00 PM Claudia Farrow (Rose's Mother, Skyla's GM) arrives driving in from N of the crime scene
?:00 PM OSBI called in on the case by Okfuskee County Sheriff

The Crime Scene
The girls appear to have walked to the Bridge over Bad Creek, and were returning home when they were killed. They were within sight of the Placker driveway
Both Taylor and Skyla had cell phones - there was no call for help made by the girls and they were facing the killer(s) when they were shot - it appears they had no time to react or run
Family members at the crime scene were Peter Placker, Vicky Placker, Rose Whitaker and Claudia Farrow
The family members have all been cleared of involvement
The crime scene is located on the West side of County Line Road 1/4 mile N of the Placker home. Taylor is lying with her head toward the road in the shallow ditch alongside the road. Skyla is about 4' N and W of Taylor, her head also facing the road.
Bullet casings and an unidentified footprint are found in the road, just a few feet from Taylor
The girls were NOT sexually assaulted and were found fully dressed
Two guns were used on EACH girl - one high powered, one lower powered
Neither of the guns was a shotgun
The autopsy reported the girls shot multiple times in the face and chest - some reports say head and chest - the autopsies have not been released

The POI
There is a POI wanted for questioning in connection with the crime
He is described as a Native American appearing (perhaps part caucasian) male, 6' tall, slender build, brown eyes, black hair down to the small of his back, may be worn in a pony tail. At the time he was wearing a blue long-sleeved shirt, a black ball cap and jeans with boots. He was driving a Ford or Chevy White PU truck with a standard single cab and a chrome/silver strip of trim down the side. The truck carried an OK tag.

3 witnesses saw the POI in the area, but only one saw him ON County Line Road near the Crime Scene - the other two witnesses saw the POI on a road connecting to County Line Road
1 witness saw the girls walking S on County Line Road near the crime scene
3 witnesses heard the gunshots - 2 of those witnesses are members of the Kelough family who live about a mile away from the crime scene

The Sketch Artist is Harvey Pratt, OSBI - he is a 40 year veteran investigator and former Asst Director at the OSBI in addition to being a highly respected (and accurate) forensic artist http://www.harveypratt.com/

Cleared Local Persons
A truck of local teenagers was target shooting with a shotgun in the area earlier that day, but were cleared of any involvement in the murders
Tim Creech (RSO Weleetka) has been questioned and cleared

The Victim's Families
The Plackers moved from OKC 3 years ago and the Whitakers moved from Kansas

Skyla had just turned 11 and Taylor had just turned 13 Taylor and Skyla attended Graham School - their school has 100 attending students from Kindergarten thru 12th grade. Skyla and Taylor were in a combined class of 5th and 6th graders, there were 4 boys and Taylor in the 6th grade, Skyla and 4 other girls and 1 boy were in the 5th grade
Skyla lived with her mother and stepfather (Rose and William Whitaker) and younger sister Jayme about 8 miles S of Henryetta near teh IN Turnpike - at least a 20 minute drive from The Placker home. The Farrows (Jimmy and Claudia) live next door to the Whitakers - Claudia and Jimmy Farrow are both employed by D Chancey - who owns Bad Creek Farms (about 3 miles NW of the Placker home) - Claudia as a housekeeper and Jimmy as a farmhand. D Chancey Also owns the Placker home
Skyla's older brother Edward Gordon is currently in a Kansas jail and will soon be going to prison on manslaughter charges for his part in a drug deal gone wrong.
Skyla also has two older sisters - Christina Whitaker of Mo and Rosita Gordon of Tulsa
Rose Whitaker was not raised by her mother Claudia - but by an Aunt. Jimmy Farrow is not Rose's father.


Taylor Paschal Placker lived with her Grandparents Peter and Vicky Placker - whom she called mom and dad - we do not know who Taylor's Bio parents are.
Taylor has 2 brothers Jessie Paschal and Chris Placker and 2 sisters Jennifer Paschal and Linda Kaye Placker - Chris lives in Sallisaw and the other reside in Weleetka
The Placker family has had several members who have served time in jail and prison and some family members are married to or dating convicts currently incarcerated.Vicky and Peter Placker do NOT have any criminal record.

fran
07-22-2008, 03:05 AM
Awesome summary FlowerChild!

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Thank you so much,
:)
fran

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 03:37 AM
When did LE say they cleared Timothy Creech? I didn't see that.

Also, FC..maybe that should be in a separate thread so you can update it easily. It is a great rundown of the case!! Thanks!

Busylady
07-22-2008, 03:41 AM
Thank you FC great post. We might want to add where alot of this information came from so its not taken as absolute fact. Might avoid alot of questions from posters asking for links etc because of the different information than what has been reported by LE or media.

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 03:45 AM
Thanks, GS! Yes, the site has been having problems all night. Drives me crazy, too!

BusyLady~ Very good idea!

FlowerChild
07-22-2008, 04:43 AM
Thank you FC great post. We might want to add where alot of this information came from so its not taken as absolute fact. Might avoid alot of questions from posters asking for links etc because of the different information than what has been reported by LE or media.

The Information with sources is on the New "Catch Up" thread. Most of it is fact, per OSBI or interviews with Placker or Farrow

Yes, Creech has been cleared per Local LE, this has come from several sources - I believe Okfuskee Sheriff's Dept said he was in jail when the murders occurred. He is still in Weleetka where he lives with family members.

My Opinion

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 04:44 AM
AMY, ILLINOIS RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. God bless you and your darling twins.
~snip~
Well, the previous woman, you know, mentioned about family, but I was wondering, you know, all family like cousins, aunts, uncles, and also like the girls were close together when they were shot. Could it have been someone they knew?

GRACE: To Jessica Brown, PIO with Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, has all of their extended family been interrogated or at least investigated?

BROWN: We have located what we believe is most of the family on both sides and talked to them, and we`re pretty certain we`ve done a good job of that. And also, you`re talking about the two girls being so close together and could they know their killer. That`s something that`s up in the air at this point in time. We believe that is a possibility.

ANN: Nancy, I have a question. Is there anywhere -- have the police looked into the backgrounds of the children`s parents to find out if there was any sort of thing such as gambling debt or a drug debt or anything like that at which point, you know, somebody would, basically, you know, set out revenge by hurting these two beautiful little girls and killing them?

GRACE: What about it? To Jessica Brown -- she`s the public information officer with the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation.

Jessica, I know that may be a farfetched scenario, but has it been investigated?

BROWN: That`s one of the first things we do, Nancy, is look at the family, those closest to the victims, and we make sure we know everything about them, to find out if there`s any reason that they would do it or someone else would do it in retribution to them.

We have not found that.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0807/21/ng.01.html (Bolded by me)

ThoughtFox
07-22-2008, 05:20 AM
Thanks so much, FlowerChild!!! :clap: That's so helpful!

And thanks for that transcript, SeriouslySearching.

ArizonaGiGi
07-22-2008, 07:03 AM
Tom'sGirl (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=6037) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
At this link on the right it says EXTRA: Full press conference on Weleetka update (it isn't) however at the beginning of the tape of the 911 yu can hear the caller screaming "run, run". In other audios, they have that part cut.

http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=

************************************************** *****************************************

Thanks Tom'sGirl


Click on the EXTRA; full press conference link.


If you listen very closely in the beginning when the phone is dialing 911 you will hear a tiny

childs voice in the background state "he thinks their dead" or "she thinks their dead"


This is right before the caller says "RUN RUN".

Anyone have an idea who the child might be? Did Skyla have a little sis?

Sorry if this has already been addressed today and I missed it.

RoseRed
07-22-2008, 07:20 AM
I am so not getting it. What do you really think the reason is for all the mis-info...including AMW..errrrrrrrrr

There are always different versions within the news and media. Mis-Communication most likely. AMW is not a good source of information. They have wrong information on a few of the cases I have followed. I do not even go to their web site any longer. :twocents:

Beyond Belief
07-22-2008, 07:59 AM
I am wondering if when 911 answers it says "say 1 if this is an emergency". it sounds like she is shouting one.

Dr. Pennypacker
07-22-2008, 08:17 AM
Thank you FlowerChild for the informative "catch up".

Mysterylover
07-22-2008, 08:33 AM
I contribute it to poor communications from within, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand has reported.

As for AMW, they've disgusted me for some time now on their poor coverage and accuracy on several other cases.


Why would any professional get in front of the MIC and give a nationwide press conference and not have the correct facts and deliberately mislead the public? Seems that does more harm than good...

I agree AMW has changed and gone down hill...imo

belimom
07-22-2008, 09:00 AM
Thanks, FC, for the summary!

Wanted to clarify my post:
- the witness sketch/description was someone who could be part-caucasian/part-NA, correct? Christopher Placker does have many NA features. I'm not saying it is him, but when looking at his picture, it reminded me of the sketch so much that I had to then look up the sketch and see them side by side. There are just some elements of resemblance to me, whether it's him or not. JMO... :)

- As for Vicky/Peter's criminal records, unless there is another Vicky/Peter Placker couple, I found their names (twice, I believe) on this site: http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp Just search for "Placker".

CMorrison64
07-22-2008, 09:20 AM
Thanks, FC, for the summary!

Wanted to clarify my post:
- the witness sketch/description was someone who could be part-caucasian/part-NA, correct? Christopher Placker does have many NA features. I'm not saying it is him, but when looking at his picture, it reminded me of the sketch so much that I had to then look up the sketch and see them side by side. There are just some elements of resemblance to me, whether it's him or not. JMO... :)

- As for Vicky/Peter's criminal records, unless there is another Vicky/Peter Placker couple, I found their names (twice, I believe) on this site: http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp Just search for "Placker".


Just look like they had some financial problems. Didn't see anything that caused a red flag (assault, drugs, etc.)

belimom
07-22-2008, 09:25 AM
Just look like they had some financial problems. Didn't see anything that caused a red flag (assault, drugs, etc.)

The first one was for forcible entry, if I'm reading it correctly...? Sorry - I'm not implying that P/V are guilty - I found their names while looking up other Plackers and was surprised. I had not seen any mention of their run-ins with the law at all, so I thought I'd post it... ;)

Claycat
07-22-2008, 09:29 AM
The first one was for forcible entry, if I'm reading it correctly...? Sorry - I'm not implying that P/V are guilty - I found their names while looking up other Plackers and was surprised. I had not seen any mention of their run-ins with the law at all, so I thought I'd post it... ;)

Another poster told me that was about them being evicted, Belimom.

CMorrison64
07-22-2008, 09:33 AM
The first one was for forcible entry, if I'm reading it correctly...? Sorry - I'm not implying that P/V are guilty - I found their names while looking up other Plackers and was surprised. I had not seen any mention of their run-ins with the law at all, so I thought I'd post it... ;)

You are right, I missed that ... sorry. Hey anything's possible as we really don't know who did it ... in my mind nobody's innocent until the people responsible are caught.

Dr. Pennypacker
07-22-2008, 09:36 AM
life in this town sounds like a far cry from the ideal "white picket fence" community

evelyn24
07-22-2008, 10:00 AM
I'm going by memory here, this is the one case, I actually was involved on from the first thread (don't have the time to catch up on the others, but I TRY!!:)

Anyway, I recall the Grandpa saying that he called the mother of Skyla and she was going down the road in her car the opposite direction. He stopped her, then asked her to call 911.

I think that's why there's the, "What? Whaaaat?... because she had no clue at first what the issue was. Then of course, "they" meaning family members or witnesses, pronounced them dead and she just snapped. Quite understandably.

I think OSBI rationale behind the releasing of the 911 tapes is drawing on the communities emotions and hoping "someone" will feel guilty enough to come forward. JMO

I doubt it's Skyla's mom, because the caller calls one of the murdered girls, "my daughter, my grandbaby, and her friend."
Taylor was Vicky and Peter's bio grandbaby, but they considered her, and raised her like their daughter.
Assuming that is Vicky, I think all doubt about the Plackers has been erased, because the woman on the 911 call is utterly shocked and devastated.

noZme
07-22-2008, 10:19 AM
Dr P & others new to WS:

1st welcome aboard... you have joined a great group of people!

Here you will find demographics of Weleetka... you'll see it is an economically depressed, mostly blue-collar area.... unemployment level is significantly higher than the state average, household income is low $20Ks, there is little growth & education levels are low. Like many small, rural towns, Weleetka is struggling.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Weleetka-Oklahoma.html (http://www.city-data.com/city/Weleetka-Oklahoma.html)

Also, if you find time to read, there is a wide array of information about the families & other pertinent data in other topics on this thread.

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 10:31 AM
I hope this doesn't go down as another unsolved case that can haunt a small town like this for years and years.

Since no witnesses have been able to lead them to a suspect yet (at least as far as we know) it may have been some oddball just lurking in the brush that day. None the less, I think it was someone who knew the girls and lived in the vicinity.

Dr. Pennypacker
07-22-2008, 10:34 AM
Thank you noZme

:)

belimom
07-22-2008, 10:50 AM
...the woman on the 911 call is utterly shocked and devastated.

ITA. And, her demeanor is in stark contrast to the Patsy Ramsey's call. Vicky Placker's voice was high-pitched, she was extremely upset, had a hard time communicating the situation, etc. Patsy Ramsey was breathless, voice was actually low, not high. And she didn't seem in shock to me. We went through an event where we thought our child had drowned - I was devastated, screaming at the top of voice, hysterical, etc - very similar to Vicky Placker. OTOH, when I first listened to Patsy Ramsey's call, I recall thinking - as someone who experienced perceived trauma or near-trauma myself - that she didn't sound traumatized... JMO.

BTW, thanks for the welcomes to the board! This is an awesome place... :)

little726
07-22-2008, 10:51 AM
This may have already been discussed and I apologize if it has but, I had another thought about the POI and why they want to talk to him.

The POI could have just been driving on that country road and came upon the dead girls in his travels. He gets out of his truck to see what's going on, see's the Plackers coming down the road, gets scared and takes off. The POI might feel he will be blamed for the murders.

That could be why the POI will not come forward. He may also have a criminal record.

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 10:57 AM
Dr P & others new to WS:

1st welcome aboard... you have joined a great group of people!

Here you will find demographics of Weleetka... you'll see it is an economically depressed, mostly blue-collar area.... unemployment level is significantly higher than the state average, household income is low $20Ks, there is little growth & education levels are low. Like many small, rural towns, Weleetka is struggling.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Weleetka-Oklahoma.html (http://www.city-data.com/city/Weleetka-Oklahoma.html)

Also, if you find time to read, there is a wide array of information about the families & other pertinent data in other topics on this thread.


I found an interesting comment from one of the posters on this website who states when referring to the murders, "I don't doubt it though since it's so near Dustin."

Is there something about the town of Dustin we don't know? Does it have a history of violence?
Just curious.......

EnvoyDriver61
07-22-2008, 11:17 AM
Flower Child, could I ask a favor.

could you highlight somehow the parts of your summary that are based on your contact info.

thanks.

raeann
07-22-2008, 11:29 AM
I'm sure this most likely is totally unrelated to this case, but I found it interesting and thought others might want to research it a bit.
There is a man missing from southeast Kansas since last Saturday. His name is Timothy A. McKay from the Winfield area which is probably about 90 miles or less from the Tulsa area. No picture was shown by local news media, not even an age that I saw, but what was most startling was that he is driving a WHITE CHEVY PICKUP TRUCK, however the info. said that it has Kansas tags.

rccook555
07-22-2008, 11:59 AM
See, this is why things get twisted..not you, but the media not doing proper research...especially AMW! WTH!!
The caller clearly uses the term, "My daughter, My Grandbaby, and her daught...her friend".
She's panicked and stumbling on her words, but I think it's definitely Vicky.


I was wondering if maybe Skylas mom was there at the time. I know GM was stumbling over her words but maybe the other person there was Skylas mom and thus she said " Her Daught..."

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 12:25 PM
I will have to check again, but I thought they found him...Raeann.

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 12:31 PM
ITA. And, her demeanor is in stark contrast to the Patsy Ramsey's call. Vicky Placker's voice was high-pitched, she was extremely upset, had a hard time communicating the situation, etc. Patsy Ramsey was breathless, voice was actually low, not high. And she didn't seem in shock to me. We went through an event where we thought our child had drowned - I was devastated, screaming at the top of voice, hysterical, etc - very similar to Vicky Placker. OTOH, when I first listened to Patsy Ramsey's call, I recall thinking - as someone who experienced perceived trauma or near-trauma myself - that she didn't sound traumatized... JMO.

BTW, thanks for the welcomes to the board! This is an awesome place... :)Belimom~ There are some people who freak and others who remain fairly calm sounding. It depends solely on the person. I am one that remains very cool in high stress (such a medical emergencies) situations, but fall apart afterwards. I don't think it is fair to say that everyone who doesn't react as you did is somehow guilty or less than a caring person.

Snowlover77
07-22-2008, 12:33 PM
Here is something I have speculated on since these girls were killed-
Were they killed by two gay boys/men when Taylor and Skyla discovered they were gay and were lovers? Did these two girls discover something that would no doubt ruin the lives of many innocent people? You have to wonder what they knew and how they learned it. Yes, It could be out there(the gay theory) BUT not so out there that it is not feasable.
I rememebr Pat Brown's(criminal profiler) first impression of these killers...she stated two loner type guys who,"did everything together." There are some gay people who have extreme anger built up inside them also. They could have paniced and made a pact to kill Taylor and Skyla to prevent their's and several other's worlds from exploding. It is something to think about, imo.
I may be way offbase with this theory but it keeps gnawing at me and coming back to me front and center.

Albert18
07-22-2008, 12:52 PM
I was surprised by Greta's coverage of this case last night. I thought her attitude was dismissive. In fact when the reporter started to bring up the victimology angle she cut him off.

I thought it was interesting that when Greta asked about any persons of interest Jessica replied yes in the plural and didn't even mention the composite sketch POI.

I know some people are still clinging to the hope that what they are witnessing is so odd that it must be a really clever, skillful investigation but let go of that and save your fingers. What we are witnessing is slop and unprofessionalism. I feel so sorry for the families.

They should have taken the time at the news conference to set the stage for who, what, and where. What did the girls do that day, who was at the house with them, what time were the girls were last seen alive by a family member, what time did the witness see the girls alive, who was at the crime scene when LE arrived and if it was more than one person than why the crowd on a remote country road, and who called 911 and from where. The public deserves to hear this from LE not through the grapevine.

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 12:57 PM
I heard Pat's profile and she seemed way off to me about this case as I have seen in many cases with her. That being said, anything is possible. I think the gay theory is not very likely tho. Having sex that close to the driveway of the Placker's residence in broad daylight with cars driving by doesn't sound like something two lovers of any sex would risk if they wanted to remain unknown, imo. (People who really didn't care if people saw them...may find it quite exciting tho, but taking that risk is part of it and not worth killing over.)

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 12:59 PM
I was wondering if maybe Skylas mom was there at the time. I know GM was stumbling over her words but maybe the other person there was Skylas mom and thus she said " Her Daught..."I honestly don't believe that Rose was there when the initial call went out, but anything is possible since LE has been leading us intentionally away from the truth as to who was at the scene, when, and who made the call anyway. :mad: (I get mad everytime I think about it now.)

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 01:05 PM
Maybe Greta has played the CSI game like I have and realizes that "Victimology" angle is about as basic of tool as it comes for LE. Of course, you check out who the victims are, who they knew, and what they did, etc. That is much ado about nothing, but now they have given it a name and their own division to do it. On the game, they literally have the triangle or the "3 prong approach"! LOL

FlowerChild
07-22-2008, 01:06 PM
Flower Child, could I ask a favor.

could you highlight somehow the parts of your summary that are based on your contact info.

thanks.

Go to the "Catch Up Thread" it's done there on the same post

EnvoyDriver61
07-22-2008, 01:09 PM
Thank you!


In light of the release of the 911 calls and LE's continued belief that the murders were done by two locals, possibly teens, I am confused regarding why they think that the vandalism reported to the cross at the memorial isn't relevant?

A taunting message about LE never catching the killers seems relevant to me. I dunno:waitasec:

cloudajo
07-22-2008, 01:10 PM
Here is something I have speculated on since these girls were killed-
Were they killed by two gay boys/men when Taylor and Skyla discovered they were gay and were lovers? Did these two girls discover something that would no doubt ruin the lives of many innocent people? You have to wonder what they knew and how they learned it. Yes, It could be out there(the gay theory) BUT not so out there that it is not feasable.
I rememebr Pat Brown's(criminal profiler) first impression of these killers...she stated two loner type guys who,"did everything together." There are some gay people who have extreme anger built up inside them also. They could have paniced and made a pact to kill Taylor and Skyla to prevent their's and several other's worlds from exploding. It is something to think about, imo.
I may be way offbase with this theory but it keeps gnawing at me and coming back to me front and center.

Snow, were you thinking they discovered something at the bridge that day or maybe another time?

If that day at the bridge, I also wonder if the credible witness who saw them walking back toward the house described them as looking hurried and worried, or happy and nonchalent?

Snowlover77
07-22-2008, 01:15 PM
[quote=SeriouslySearching;2405121]I heard Pat's profile and she seemed way off to me about this case as I have seen in many cases with her. That being said, anything is possible. I think the gay theory is not very likely tho. Having sex that close to the driveway of the Placker's residence in broad daylight with cars driving by doesn't sound like something two lovers of any sex would risk if they wanted to remain unknown, imo. (People who really didn't care if people saw them...may find it quite exciting tho, but taking that risk is part of it and not worth killing over.)[/quote
I wouldn't think two lovers would be having sex in broad daylight with cars driving by either. That isn't what I meant, SS. There is a possibility that Taylor and Skyla found out about it( gay relationship) another way..not neccessarily that day and that particular time. It could be a much older man and a much younger boy(Michael DEVILin and Shawn Horbeck) type relationship. This is something very feasible in my opinion.

FlowerChild
07-22-2008, 01:18 PM
Snow, were you thinking they discovered something at the bridge that day or maybe another time?

If that day at the bridge, I also wonder if the credible witness who saw them walking back toward the house described them as looking hurried and worried, or happy and nonchalent?
I believe he felt they were just walking along - they definitely weren't acting as if anything was wrong - like they were distressed, worried or running etc. And in the witnesses' words, this sighting was "minutes" before the girls were killed were killed so they must have been pretty close to the crime scene when he saw them.And yes, the person has been checked out, polygraphed, questioned and the OSBI believes his story. I believe it is this witness who did not come in until Wed or Thur - LE said he had a valid reason for not coming forward sooner. This is also the witness who LE said "we are not answering that question" when asked if this witness also saw the POI near the crime scene.

My Opinion

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Of course, if there was an inappropriate relationship such as you mentioned with Devlin which involved a person going to jail for life...maybe. Anything is possible in this case. Anything.

Snowlover77
07-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Snow, were you thinking they discovered something at the bridge that day or maybe another time?

If that day at the bridge, I also wonder if the credible witness who saw them walking back toward the house described them as looking hurried and worried, or happy and nonchalent?
Cloud, I think it could have been that day or it could have been a day beforee or earlier....I keep thinking of Michal Devilin and Shawn Hornbeck. Much older man much younger boy in a perverted relationship about to be found out.

cloudajo
07-22-2008, 01:21 PM
This story stuck out to me because of the "runaway" reference. Initials of juvenile identified as C.H.

18 yr old arrested on June 18th in Welling (which is about 2 hrs from Weleetka).

Could be totally unrelated...

June 27th - TAHLEQUAH DAILY PRESS —
Cherokee County prosecutors charged a Welling man Wednesday for possessing a sawed-off shotgun/rifle and harboring runaway child.
Wade L. Ritchie, 18, was arrested by Tahlequah Police Officer Luke Hixon June 18. Ritchie allegedly had in his possession a shotgun with a barrel only 17.5 inches and overall length of only 24.5 inches.

Ritchie was also allegedly housing a runaway juvenile, identified in court documents as C.H.

Article: http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_179093846.html (http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_179093846.html)
Court Records (search on Ritchie, Wade - case filed on on 6/25): http://www.odcr.com/detail.php?Case=011-CF%20%200800234&County=011- (http://www.odcr.com/detail.php?Case=011-CF%20%200800234&County=011-)
(Note: Some of the other court records under same name are for his father I believe, because of the year)
Map – It’s about 2 hrs from Weleetka to Welling (Welling is very close to Tahlequah, NE of Weleetka): http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=weleetka,+ok&daddr=welling+ok+map&sll=35.92242,-94.899902&sspn=1.05648,2.39502&ie=UTF8&ll=35.630512,-95.52063&spn=1.060366,2.39502&z=9 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=weleetka,+ok&daddr=welling+ok+map&sll=35.92242,-94.899902&sspn=1.05648,2.39502&ie=UTF8&ll=35.630512,-95.52063&spn=1.060366,2.39502&z=9)
Myspace of Wade L. Richtie (last login 6/16): http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=263320463 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=263320463)

cloudajo
07-22-2008, 01:24 PM
I believe he felt they were just walking along - they definitely weren't acting as if anything was wrong - like they were distressed, worried or running etc. And in the witnesses' words, this sighting was "minutes" before the girls were killed were killed so they must have been pretty close to the crime scene when he saw them.And yes, the person has been checked out, polygraphed, questioned and the OSBI believes his story. I believe it is this witness who did not come in until Wed or Thur - LE said he had a valid reason for not coming forward sooner. This is also the witness who LE said "we are not answering that question" when asked if this witness also saw the POI near the crime scene.

My Opinion

FC, yes, but when you say "he felt" and "they weren't acting as if anything was wrong," where is that info coming from? Just want to know if that is something that was verified?

cloudajo
07-22-2008, 01:25 PM
Cloud, I think it could have been that day or it could have been a day beforee or earlier....I keep thinking of Michal Devilin and Shawn Hornbeck. Much older man much younger boy in a perverted relationship about to be found out.

Thanks.

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 01:26 PM
I believe he felt they were just walking along - they definitely weren't acting as if anything was wrong - like they were distressed, worried or running etc. And in the witnesses' words, this sighting was "minutes" before the girls were killed were killed so they must have been pretty close to the crime scene when he saw them.And yes, the person has been checked out, polygraphed, questioned and the OSBI believes his story. I believe it is this witness who did not come in until Wed or Thur - LE said he had a valid reason for not coming forward sooner. This is also the witness who LE said "we are not answering that question" when asked if this witness also saw the POI near the crime scene.

My OpinionWhile you may still trust the things that LE has said about the witnesses now, I certainly do not. After yesterday and knowing they lied to the public about such an important matter as the 911 call and Peter...I am not going to believe there was a person who saw the girls walking along the road. This could be a "ruse" from LE, too.

It is just sad we can't take everything they have told us as factual anymore. It is ridiculous they put their credibility on the line and lost it. People aren't going to trust their "reports" nor should they! They blew it. :mad: If they lied about Peter and Vicky...what else are they lying about in the case?

Mysterylover
07-22-2008, 01:28 PM
I was surprised by Greta's coverage of this case last night. I thought her attitude was dismissive. In fact when the reporter started to bring up the victimology angle she cut him off.

I thought it was interesting that when Greta asked about any persons of interest Jessica replied yes in the plural and didn't even mention the composite sketch POI.

I know some people are still clinging to the hope that what they are

witnessing is so odd, that it must be a really clever, skillful investigation but

let go of that and save your fingers.

What we are witnessing is slop and unprofessionalism...

I feel so sorry for the families.

They should have taken the time at the news conference to set the stage for who, what, and where. What did the girls do that day, who was at the house with them, what time were the girls were last seen alive by a family member, what time did the witness see the girls alive, who was at the crime scene when LE arrived and if it was more than one person than why the crowd on a remote country road, and who called 911 and from where.

The public deserves to hear this from LE not through the grapevine.....

Albert, good post as usual.

IMO, the case was not handled correctly from the beginning....
The ROAD, crime scene should have been closed until the investigation was complete and I don't see that as being complete in 1 rainy night.

The road should NEVER have been scraped....HOW did that happen? or did someone want that to happen? This needs an answer, on who was responsible?

IMO it possibly damaged this case and destroyed any scents the dogs may have picked up, and covered-up any evidence overlooked....moo

Snowlover77
07-22-2008, 01:30 PM
While you may still trust the things that LE has said about the witnesses now, I certainly do not. After yesterday and knowing they lied to the public about such an important matter as the 911 call and Peter...I am not going to believe there was a person who saw the girls walking along the road. This could be a "ruse" from LE, too.

It is just sad we can't take everything they have told us as factual anymore. It is ridiculous they put their credibility on the line and lost it. People aren't going to trust their "reports" nor should they! They blew it. :mad: If they lied about Peter and Vicky...what else are they lying about in the case?
Either LE is hiding important information or they are very much in the dark still. I think their credibilty is almost non existent now though.

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 01:31 PM
cloudajo This story stuck out to me because of the "runaway" reference. Initials of juvenile identified as C.H.

18 yr old arrested on June 18th in Welling (which is about 2 hrs from Weleetka).

Could be totally unrelated...

June 27th - TAHLEQUAH DAILY PRESS —
Cherokee County prosecutors charged a Welling man Wednesday for possessing a sawed-off shotgun/rifle and harboring runaway child.
Wade L. Ritchie, 18, was arrested by Tahlequah Police Officer Luke Hixon June 18. Ritchie allegedly had in his possession a shotgun with a barrel only 17.5 inches and overall length of only 24.5 inches.

Ritchie was also allegedly housing a runaway juvenile, identified in court documents as C.H.

Article: http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_179093846.html (http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_179093846.html)
Court Records (search on Ritchie, Wade - case filed on on 6/25): http://www.odcr.com/detail.php?Case=011-CF%20%200800234&County=011- (http://www.odcr.com/detail.php?Case=011-CF%20%200800234&County=011-)
(Note: Some of the other court records under same name are for his father I believe, because of the year)
Map – It’s about 2 hrs from Weleetka to Welling (Welling is very close to Tahlequah, NE of Weleetka): http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=weleetka,+ok&daddr=welling+ok+map&sll=35.92242,-94.899902&sspn=1.05648,2.39502&ie=UTF8&ll=35.630512,-95.52063&spn=1.060366,2.39502&z=9 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=weleetka,+ok&daddr=welling+ok+map&sll=35.92242,-94.899902&sspn=1.05648,2.39502&ie=UTF8&ll=35.630512,-95.52063&spn=1.060366,2.39502&z=9)
Myspace of Wade L. Richtie (last login 6/16): http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=263320463 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=263320463)[/quote]

Oh My.. That myspace page under his pics has some very intresting favs .. Hitman.. Who will be next hummmmmm

Mysterylover
07-22-2008, 01:42 PM
While you may still trust the things that LE has said about the witnesses now, I certainly do not.
After yesterday and knowing they lied to the public about such an important matter as the 911 call and Peter...

I am not going to believe there was a person who saw the girls walking along the road. This could be a "ruse" from LE, too.

It is just sad we can't take everything they have told us as factual anymore.

It is ridiculous they put their credibility on the line and lost it.

People aren't going to trust their "reports" nor should they! They blew it. :mad:
If they lied about Peter and Vicky...what else are they lying about in the case?.....

IF the POI saw the girls in the spot they were murdered, they would have had to pass the killers somewhere on the road, otherwise IF any time lapsed, the girls would have already walked to the P's driveway.

How long does it take to walk 900 feet?

unless, the killers came out someone's driveway or the woods somewhere along that road, after the witness had passed...imo

cloudajo
07-22-2008, 01:42 PM
cloudajo This story stuck out to me because of the "runaway" reference. Initials of juvenile identified as C.H.

18 yr old arrested on June 18th in Welling (which is about 2 hrs from Weleetka).

Could be totally unrelated...

June 27th - TAHLEQUAH DAILY PRESS —
Cherokee County prosecutors charged a Welling man Wednesday for possessing a sawed-off shotgun/rifle and harboring runaway child.
Wade L. Ritchie, 18, was arrested by Tahlequah Police Officer Luke Hixon June 18. Ritchie allegedly had in his possession a shotgun with a barrel only 17.5 inches and overall length of only 24.5 inches.

Ritchie was also allegedly housing a runaway juvenile, identified in court documents as C.H.

Article: http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_179093846.html (http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_179093846.html)
Court Records (search on Ritchie, Wade - case filed on on 6/25): http://www.odcr.com/detail.php?Case=011-CF%20%200800234&County=011- (http://www.odcr.com/detail.php?Case=011-CF%20%200800234&County=011-)
(Note: Some of the other court records under same name are for his father I believe, because of the year)
Map – It’s about 2 hrs from Weleetka to Welling (Welling is very close to Tahlequah, NE of Weleetka): http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=weleetka,+ok&daddr=welling+ok+map&sll=35.92242,-94.899902&sspn=1.05648,2.39502&ie=UTF8&ll=35.630512,-95.52063&spn=1.060366,2.39502&z=9 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=weleetka,+ok&daddr=welling+ok+map&sll=35.92242,-94.899902&sspn=1.05648,2.39502&ie=UTF8&ll=35.630512,-95.52063&spn=1.060366,2.39502&z=9)
Myspace of Wade L. Richtie (last login 6/16): http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=263320463 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=263320463)

Oh My.. That myspace page under his pics has some very intresting favs .. Hitman.. Who will be next hummmmmm[/quote]

GS, I'm not logged in so I can't see any pics. Are you referring to the list under videos re hitman? Is that generic/unrelated though?

Mysterylover
07-22-2008, 01:49 PM
cloudajo This story stuck out to me because of the "runaway" reference. Initials of juvenile identified as C.H.

18 yr old arrested on June 18th in Welling (which is about 2 hrs from Weleetka).

Could be totally unrelated...

June 27th - TAHLEQUAH DAILY PRESS —
Cherokee County prosecutors charged a Welling man Wednesday for possessing a sawed-off shotgun/rifle and harboring runaway child.
Wade L. Ritchie, 18, was arrested by Tahlequah Police Officer Luke Hixon June 18. Ritchie allegedly had in his possession a shotgun with a barrel only 17.5 inches and overall length of only 24.5 inches.

Ritchie was also allegedly housing a runaway juvenile, identified in court documents as C.H.

Article: http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_179093846.html (http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_179093846.html)
Court Records (search on Ritchie, Wade - case filed on on 6/25): http://www.odcr.com/detail.php?Case=011-CF%20%200800234&County=011- (http://www.odcr.com/detail.php?Case=011-CF%20%200800234&County=011-)
(Note: Some of the other court records under same name are for his father I believe, because of the year)
Map – It’s about 2 hrs from Weleetka to Welling (Welling is very close to Tahlequah, NE of Weleetka): http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=weleetka,+ok&daddr=welling+ok+map&sll=35.92242,-94.899902&sspn=1.05648,2.39502&ie=UTF8&ll=35.630512,-95.52063&spn=1.060366,2.39502&z=9 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=weleetka,+ok&daddr=welling+ok+map&sll=35.92242,-94.899902&sspn=1.05648,2.39502&ie=UTF8&ll=35.630512,-95.52063&spn=1.060366,2.39502&z=9)
Myspace of Wade L. Richtie (last login 6/16): http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=263320463 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=263320463)

Oh My.. That myspace page under his pics has some very intresting favs .. Hitman.. Who will be next hummmmmm[/QUOTE]

LAST LOG IN: JUNE 16, 08

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 01:53 PM
It is possilbe that when the witness saw the girls walking down the road, they were already in the grasp of the killer or killers. The perpetrators could have heard the car coming, given the girls a warning to act is if nothing was wrong and hidden themselves from view while keeping the guns pointed on the girls. To me, this seem likely because of the short, short time frame. Actually, the girls could have been under the control of the killer or killers from the time they left the house. It is a remote area and there is a lot of vegetation on the sides of the road.

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 01:57 PM
Is this area anywhere near a railroad track or are there any homeless people that might be camping in the wooded area between the Placker house and the bridge?

FlowerChild
07-22-2008, 01:57 PM
FC, yes, but when you say "he felt" and "they weren't acting as if anything was wrong," where is that info coming from? Just want to know if that is something that was verified?

One of the OSBI interviews with Rosser, IIRC. Basically Rosser said there was nothing that made the witness feel the girls were in danger etc. I believe it was an interview within the 1st 2 weeks. I don't have it right at hand because it wasn't an important point and we also know from the footprints and other evidence (or lack of evidence) the girls were walking and were not even scared enough to call their moms. If the girls cell phones were in their pockets (as Peter said Taylor's was) they obviously weren't given any reason to feel fear until the bullets flew. And finally the witness himself didn't see anything that made him come forward right away - maybe he was out-of-town and wasn't even aware the girls he saw were the same girls that were murdered until he got home.

My Opinion

FlowerChild
07-22-2008, 02:08 PM
Is this area anywhere near a railroad track or are there any homeless people that might be camping in the wooded area between the Placker house and the bridge?
It doesn't seem likely - and most people around there have guns, don't react well to strangers on their property. I cannot imagine a homeless person with no vehicle camping that far away from a town either. That county is not highly populated, avgs only 18 people in each square mile, 75% rural and very poor - Weleetka has a population of under 1000 people, more than half below the poverty line.

OSBI has been over the whole area multiple times with helicopters, done GPS mapping and searched on foot. Nothing was found to indicate anything "going on" in that area, the OSBI has also said there is NO evidence this was drug related. And I think the girls footprints show they walked alone - no-one with them. It also appears from the scene that the killer(s) used a vehicle to trap the girls into the ditch/brush (where they were found) before shooting them.

My Opinion

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 02:09 PM
If the Plackers weren't at home when the girls left, I'm starting to think more and more about the possibility that they were taken by gun point from the house. Although they may have been scared enough to call their moms, they may not have had the oppoortunity. When Skyla's relative called, the killer or killers could have told her to act as if nothing was wrong so no one would come looking for her immediately.

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 02:12 PM
It doesn't seem likely - and most people around there have guns, don't react well to strangers on their property. I cannot imagine a homeless person with no vehicle camping that far away from a town either. That county is not highly populated, avgs only 18 people in each square mile, 75% rural and very poor - Weleetka has a population of under 1000 people, more than half below the poverty line.

OSBI has been over the whole area multiple times with helicopters, done GPS mapping and searched on foot. Nothing was found to indicate anything "going on" in that area, the OSBI has also said there is NO evidence this was drug related. And I think the girls footprints show they walked alone - no-one with them. It also appears from the scene that the killer(s) used a vehicle to trap the girls into the ditch/brush (where they were found) before shooting them.

My Opinion

Unless they rolled off of a freight train.

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 02:13 PM
Or they were being hunted for a previous crime.

Albert18
07-22-2008, 02:29 PM
While you may still trust the things that LE has said about the witnesses now, I certainly do not. After yesterday and knowing they lied to the public about such an important matter as the 911 call and Peter...I am not going to believe there was a person who saw the girls walking along the road. This could be a "ruse" from LE, too. ...

I think this is an important point and is what we REALLY learned from yesterday's press conference.

Some of the info about the witnesses and the POI may be deliberate misinformation.

I also don't think we really know when the girls left the house.

Is Jayme Whitaker younger than Skyla? Was she with Rose at the crime scene?

noZme
07-22-2008, 02:42 PM
yellow dog

the placker residence & crime scene are, in fact, very near a railroad.

see the link below ... everything happened just north of the red A . you may need to zoom out a couple pegs on the map. you may be interested in other references in the map topic of this thread.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.376 88:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.376 88:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e)

at this point, anything is possible, but i think there is a slim possibility the girls were shot by a hobo ( is that a pc term for train-hoppers?)

to everyone:
much research has been catalogued on this case under the other topics. you'll find all statements from the media, maps, pictures, family trees, court documents of relatives' arrests, etc.

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 02:51 PM
If someone was riding the rails and got hungry, they would need to get off the train to find food unless they were carrying their own. If they had no money, they would probably have no food.

noZme
07-22-2008, 02:54 PM
yellow dog

the placker residence & crime scene are, in fact, very near a railroad.

see the link below ... everything happened just north of the red A . you may need to zoom out a couple pegs on the map. you may be interested in other references in the map topic of this thread.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.376 88:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.376 88:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e)

at this point, anything is possible, but i think there is a slim possibility the girls were shot by a hobo ( is that a pc term for train-hoppers?)

to everyone:
much research has been catalogued on this case under the other topics. you'll find all statements from the media, maps, pictures, family trees, court documents of relatives' arrests, etc.

ps yellowdog
i love your siggy.... there is a large yellow dog at my house who apparently thinks toilet water is the true nectar of the gods. we have changed to self-closing seats & lids, so when he lifts that up & out of his way, there is limited time to gulp down a drink..... he watched the installations & i know he is thinking " if i can open that toolbox & get that screwdriver, i could eliminate that nuisance at my drinking fountain."

anneinchicago
07-22-2008, 03:07 PM
Questions, questions, questions

Please add yours.

I'm going to start from scratch.

Was it usual for the girls to have sleepovers? Did they alternate houses in a set plan or was it random as to whose house they would sleep over (As in, on Tuesday, Skylar would sleep at Taylor's; on Thursdays, Taylor would sleep at Skylar's.)

How did they get to each other's houses? Did someone drive them? The same person?

What is in their clubhouse? How long have they had it? Where is it in position to everything else.

Who was the more dominant in their friendship?

What time did Skylar and Taylor leave the Plackett house?

Was anyone at home when they left? If so, who?

Where did the girls say, if anything, they were going?

How long would it have taken them to go from the house to wherever.

Did anyone see them on their walk?

What animals went with them?

How long were they gone before someone went to look from them?

What time did the mother (I can't keep names straight) call to say she would be picking up Skylar? Taylor? (Her daughter)

Was it usual for the mother to come get her daughter?

Did someone call either of the girls to say come back?If so, who.

Did both girls have a cell phone? Did anyone else? Have those cell phone records been checked?

Who found the girls? Who called 911and how many calls were made and from where? Whose phone?

Did anyone hear anything?

How close are the neighbors?

What is the terrain like along the road. What is normal traffic like. Who would be most likely to use that road and where does it go (from both ends)

That's all I can think of for now.

Dr. Pennypacker
07-22-2008, 03:16 PM
The biggest question of all .....................


WHY???

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 03:25 PM
yellow dog

the placker residence & crime scene are, in fact, very near a railroad.

see the link below ... everything happened just north of the red A . you may need to zoom out a couple pegs on the map. you may be interested in other references in the map topic of this thread.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.376 88:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.376 88:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e)

at this point, anything is possible, but i think there is a slim possibility the girls were shot by a hobo ( is that a pc term for train-hoppers?)

to everyone:
much research has been catalogued on this case under the other topics. you'll find all statements from the media, maps, pictures, family trees, court documents of relatives' arrests, etc.

ps yellowdog
i love your siggy.... there is a large yellow dog at my house who apparently thinks toilet water is the true nectar of the gods. we have changed to self-closing seats & lids, so when he lifts that up & out of his way, there is limited time to gulp down a drink..... he watched the installations & i know he is thinking " if i can open that toolbox & get that screwdriver, i could eliminate that nuisance at my drinking fountain."


Thanks Nozeme:
I used to have a darling Yellow Lab and she did her share of drinking out of the toilet, too. Thanks for the map, too.

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 03:29 PM
Is there a state park near there anywhere?

YellowDog
07-22-2008, 03:35 PM
I used to play a lot of golf in East Texas on a course that was close to where a lot of hunting was done. In hunting season, you could hear shots going off all day and they were a good distance away. That's why I have such a hard time believing more people did not hear the shots.

Mysterylover
07-22-2008, 04:45 PM
I used to play a lot of golf in East Texas on a course that was close to where a lot of hunting was done.

In hunting season, you could hear shots going off all day and they were a good distance away.

That's why I have such a hard time believing more people did not hear the shots....

I read, the neighbors down the road about a mile away heard the shots.

IF those neighbors, 5,280 feet away HEARD the shots,

WHY didn't anyone that was in the P. home that day, HEAR the shots at 900 feet away??
When shots are heard that CLOSE to home, and children are outside, seems someone would go check on the children.....jmo

lilacwine
07-22-2008, 05:29 PM
Well FC has said they weren't home at the time... so that would explain it.

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 05:43 PM
Once again I take to the previous articles written :
http://newsok.com/article/3256335/?print=1

June 12, 2008
For slain Weleetka girls' kin, pain keeps coming

"WELEETKA — Rose Whitaker took one look at the man waving at her in the road Sunday and knew something was terribly wrong.
"They're gone,” the man said when she pulled up alongside him. "They're both gone. The girls are dead.”.......................

"Placker stopped her and wouldn't let her get close,” said Claudia Farrow, Skyla's grandmother. "He just held her and said, ‘They're gone.' ”.............


At the crime scene, Claudia Farrow bolted toward her granddaughter's body, making it about 50 feet before she was stopped. She just wanted to see her special granddaughter, who'd been in the process of finishing her first quilt for 4-H. The family waited at the scene until 3 a.m. hoping for some answers. ....
..........

In a news conference Wednesday, Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agent Ben Rosser said investigators are trying to find children who talked to the girls often and knew their habits.
"We're talking to young people because the victims were young,” Rosser said. "We've got leads, and we're talking to their friends, but a lot of people are harder to find than others.”
Earlier Wednesday, investigators said two guns were used in the killings.
Jimmy Farrow said he'd been told that the first night.
"They said there was a high-powered weapon and a low-powered weapon,” Jimmy Farrow said. "One of the TV stations showed shell casings piled up in the road where it happened.” ................................

When they didn't return and could not be reached by cell phone, Peter Placker went looking for them and found the bodies. He called 911 using Taylor's phone. Wednesday, Joe Mosher, Taylor's great uncle, said the family is distraught and not interested in talking to the media...........................................
We are not crazy ..this is the info that we a been given time after time.. JMO
GS

FlowerChild
07-22-2008, 05:55 PM
Questions, questions, questions

Please add yours.

I'm going to start from scratch.

Was it usual for the girls to have sleepovers? Did they alternate houses in a set plan or was it random as to whose house they would sleep over (As in, on Tuesday, Skylar would sleep at Taylor's; on Thursdays, Taylor would sleep at Skylar's.) Yes, almost every weekend - we are not aware of any schedule

How did they get to each other's houses? Did someone drive them? The same person? Probably parents

What is in their clubhouse? How long have they had it? Where is it in position to everything else. In the Plackers backyard (it was an old shed)

Who was the more dominant in their friendship? don't know

What time did Skylar and Taylor leave the Plackett house? around 4:30 we think

Was anyone at home when they left? If so, who? We don't know, however it appears that both Peter and Vicky Placker were gone for at least 45 minutes between 4:30 and 5:30 and came home and found the girls dead

Where did the girls say, if anything, they were going? To walk to the bridge (over Bad Creek) and back - it's a 1 mile round trip - or about 16 blocks

How long would it have taken them to go from the house to wherever. 15-20 minutes there, 15-20 minutes back

Did anyone see them on their walk? One witness saw them "within minutes" of their deaths walking back home from the direction of the bridge

What animals went with them? Taylors Chihuahua

How long were they gone before someone went to look from them? less than an hour

What time did the mother (I can't keep names straight) call to say she would be picking up Skylar? Taylor? (Her daughter) 5:05-5:10 PM

Was it usual for the mother to come get her daughter? Don't know, assume so

Did someone call either of the girls to say come back?If so, who. According to a local contact Rose spoke with Skyla before the walk about 4:30, and attempted to call he at 5:05 and got no answer. Rose then called Peter Plaker, who tried to call Taylor and got no answer

Did both girls have a cell phone? Did anyone else? Have those cell phone records been checked? Yes, they both had a cell phone and yes, OSBI took them (home computers too)

Who found the girls? Who called 911and how many calls were made and from where? Whose phone? We don't know - we only know of one call from a woman who we assume is Vicky Placker, we were also told Peter Placker called from Taylor's cell phone at the scene

Did anyone hear anything? 3 ear witnesses came forward

How close are the neighbors? Closest one is at least 1/2 mile away as the crow flies

What is the terrain like along the road. What is normal traffic like. Who would be most likely to use that road and where does it go (from both ends) Flat or gently rolling plains/woods - traffic is fairly busy for a remote dirt road because it is part of a popular route between another small town and Hwy 75

That's all I can think of for now.

Responses in red
The Catch Up Thread answers a lot of your questions - and many you haven't asked yet. We do not have all the answers, OSBI and the families are not being forthcoming on many details

My Opinion

txsvicki
07-22-2008, 06:21 PM
The statement "some are harder to find than others" must have meant something. Why would OSBI go out of their way to say something like that about finding and questioning kids.

lilacwine
07-22-2008, 06:40 PM
What if Peter started to make the 911 call, but then handed the phone to Vicky to go to Rose?

I know it sounds a little speculative... but he could have decided to go to Rose... or look around.....

ArizonaGiGi
07-22-2008, 06:57 PM
http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s (http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s)=

************************************************** *****************************************



Click on the EXTRA; full press conference link.


If you listen very closely in the beginning when the phone is dialing 911 you will hear a tiny

childs voice in the background state "he thinks their dead" or "she thinks their dead"


This is right before the caller says "RUN RUN".

Anyone have an idea who the child might be? Did Skyla have a little sis?

I posted this last night but didn't see anyone answer.
Have any of you listened to that part, can you tell what the little girl? is saying? Who is she/he?
I want to know who it is because it might pinpoint who was there and what was happening. Trying to picture it all. :-(

Morag
07-22-2008, 07:02 PM
The statement "some are harder to find than others" must have meant something. Why would OSBI go out of their way to say something like that about finding and questioning kids.

They also said it was hard to interview kids...and that they knew that someone knew something. And over and over they said the girls might have interupted/encountered something at the bridge.

Why play that heart-rending 911 call, if not to shake the conscience of the someone who knows something? And they still believe it was locals.

I'm going to make a big guess here- there is no POI- he's just a ruse to make the killers feel comfortable enough to talk among themselves or others.
And the reason he looks like a Native American is because the sketch artist is NA.

Boys with guns, a dog who showed up at the bridge the next day...no motive to kill these children...I think LE thinks that this is a stupid, spur-of-the-moment crime which can happen when people/young people are fooling around with guns...

ArizonaGiGi
07-22-2008, 07:02 PM
What if Peter started to make the 911 call, but then handed the phone to Vicky to go to Rose?

I know it sounds a little speculative... but he could have decided to go to Rose... or look around.....

I think Rose must have been there about the same time as the Plackers arrived because per my post just above this one, there is a little child saying something in the background of the 911 call just before the woman states 'RUN RUN !" . Maybe it was Skyla's little sis?

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 07:06 PM
Near the murder scene? No, there isnt' much of anything in that area

FlowerChild
07-22-2008, 07:35 PM
They also said it was hard to interview kids...and that they knew that someone knew something. And over and over they said the girls might have interupted/encountered something at the bridge.

Why play that heart-rending 911 call, if not to shake the conscience of the someone who knows something? And they still believe it was locals.

I'm going to make a big guess here- there is no POI- he's just a ruse to make the killers feel comfortable enough to talk among themselves or others.
And the reason he looks like a Native American is because the sketch artist is NA.

Boys with guns, a dog who showed up at the bridge the next day...no motive to kill these children...I think LE thinks that this is a stupid, spur-of-the-moment crime which can happen when people/young people are fooling around with guns...
That would be a HUGE NO-NO! The equivalent of making up an African American POI because the artist happened to be African American. Over 25% of Oklahomans are members of an American Indian Tribe and probably 50% have some Native American blood. The Sketch Artist is himself a high ranking member ( a Peace Chief) of the Cheyenne Tribe and has a traditional Native Amercan family. There is NO WAY he would be a party to such a discriminatory act. The POI was not made up and he exists - but in Oklahoma there are probably 10,000 men who resemble the POI - and only ONE is the POI.

My Opinion

evelyn24
07-22-2008, 07:41 PM
http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s (http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s)=

************************************************** *****************************************



Click on the EXTRA; full press conference link.


If you listen very closely in the beginning when the phone is dialing 911 you will hear a tiny

childs voice in the background state "he thinks their dead" or "she thinks their dead"


This is right before the caller says "RUN RUN".

Anyone have an idea who the child might be? Did Skyla have a little sis?

I posted this last night but didn't see anyone answer.
Have any of you listened to that part, can you tell what the little girl? is saying? Who is she/he?
I want to know who it is because it might pinpoint who was there and what was happening. Trying to picture it all. :-(

I mentioned this a few times, but the caller is not saying "Run Run", she's saying, "WHAAT?" "WHHHAAAT?" (in disbelief) to the little girl's comment, "he thinks they're dead."

Again, the caller is most likely Vicky Placker, as she stumbles on her words and calls one of the murdered girls her "daughter" then her "grandbaby."
I don't know what other kids are around the Plackers?

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 07:43 PM
Yes, I finally concur with the Whaaat...whaaaaaat, too. :) Took me quite a few times to hear it tho. You can hear the T sound at the end of the second one.

EnvoyDriver61
07-22-2008, 07:44 PM
I didn't weigh in on the 911 call.

It does sound like a young girl. It's not someone who understands the gravity of the situation.

My thoughts were: Vicky: What?

child: He thinks they're dead.

Vicky: WHAT?

Because of the detachment of the child's voice, I don't think that person is related to either of the girls. I am really thinking it is a passerby's child somehow who is relaying information.

This is terrible speculation and one I haven't seen here, but what if there was a third child at the slumber party, perhaps, if Flower Child's informant is correct, Vicky and Peter were taking someone else home to their parents and got concerned upon learning that no one answered the cell phone calls and interrupted their trip to hurry back to find the girls?

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 07:45 PM
I said I was going to back up for awhile and just read cuz this has had me pretty upset, but I'm back and want to respond to a few postings. oh foo! my phone is ringing. will be back in a few with replys.

evelyn24
07-22-2008, 07:49 PM
I didn't weigh in on the 911 call.

It does sound like a young girl. It's not someone who understands the gravity of the situation.

My thoughts were: Vicky: What?

child: He thinks they're dead.

Vicky: WHAT?

Because of the detachment of the child's voice, I don't think that person is related to either of the girls. I am really thinking it is a passerby's child somehow who is relaying information.

This is terrible speculation and one I haven't seen here, but what if there was a third child at the slumber party, perhaps, if Flower Child's informant is correct, Vicky and Peter were taking someone else home to their parents and got concerned upon learning that no one answered the cell phone calls and interrupted their trip to hurry back to find the girls?

You know, I thought the same thing. It could be a neighbor's kid, because the concern is not really there in the little kid's voice.
Then again, do little kids really grasp the gravity of a situation like that?

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 07:50 PM
The statement "some are harder to find than others" must have meant something. Why would OSBI go out of their way to say something like that about finding and questioning kids.It is summertime. Kids go to camp, families go on vacation, etc. I believe LE later followed it up with kids go "visit" other kids.

tapu
07-22-2008, 07:52 PM
Flowerchild, SeriouslySearching, Get Smart, and others--wow, thanks for these threads and the incredible amount of information and thinking in them.


Yes, this is my first post, but I've been thinking about a scenario to explain locations, motivation, etc. If anyone wants to comment:

I believe that if these two girls came upon someone they knew doing something wrong, that they would act like they knew it, but never even begin to think that they could be killed under the circumstances. I think the girls would have turned around and walked home after saying, like, "<Person's name>, you're in trouble now" or somesuch. I think this is most likely if the person were a family member/close friend.

Now, say that the person is connected to local distribution of drugs. And they were there getting drugs from a major player in drug distribution. The major player may think, those girls have to go. He drives away from the scene, overtakes them on the road, and shoots them there.

Some of the reasoning behind these thoughts:
• The perp(s) executed these children with two guns and a lot of bullets. The shooters weren't "kids playing with guns" or even anyone who isn't pretty hardened already. Thus, guessing drug-related.
• The girls were walking back from where they saw whatever it was because nothing would be going down in view of the driveway. That's just where the guy(s) caught up to them.
• The person the girls knew may not have had much to do with the decision to kill them. He tells the girls to go away when they come upon the scene. It's the other guy(s) who care nothing about who the girls are and who think they need to kill them to keep from being described. (or, in that case, maybe the girls knew the id of the person but were not close to them)


Well, back to reading. Happy to meet you all. tapu

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 07:54 PM
I still think instead of a young girl...it could just as easily be a young boy. I don't think the child's voice sounds "detached" as much as the child was relaying information caught in the shock of it all. When parents or adults start freaking out around you as was happening on a grand scale in that situation...children are often taken aback and go into a mode of calm because of shock. It wasn't detachment as much as it was the shock of the situation, imo.

tapu
07-22-2008, 07:57 PM
Ack, I can't believe I'm going to post again already but.... part of my job involves thinking how a child thinks.

I believe that most children in the situation described ("He thinks they're dead.") are experiencing nothing but excitement or, heightened anxiety, in more adult terms. It would take a while for that child to register shock, grief, anything beyond feeling electrified by the situation.

(er, imo)

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 07:57 PM
Welcome to WS, Tapu! Thanks!

That has been my theory, too. Drug dealer with a lot to lose with a local connection which is how he knew where the road was (since everyone says that it was remote which now I find even harder to believe).

It stated in the last article that the OSBI believes it could be drug related or thrill killing or (they named one more). Of course, no one really knows.

SeriouslySearching
07-22-2008, 07:59 PM
LOL We seem to be on the same page here, Tapu. :) Only you said it much better! It is what I was trying to say, but it didn't come out quite right.

cloudajo
07-22-2008, 08:00 PM
Does anyone know if Angela Herring is still the Mayor of Weleetka?

This article from Oct 2007 was the only reference I could find of her as the mayor.

TIA.

http://newsok.com/article/3160111/1193767534?

Morag
07-22-2008, 08:00 PM
That would be a HUGE NO-NO! The equivalent of making up an African American POI because the artist happened to be African American. Over 25% of Oklahomans are members of an American Indian Tribe and probably 50% have some Native American blood. The Sketch Artist is himself a high ranking member ( a Peace Chief) of the Cheyenne Tribe and has a traditional Native Amercan family. There is NO WAY he would be a party to such a discriminatory act. The POI was not made up and he exists - but in Oklahoma there are probably 10,000 men who resemble the POI - and only ONE is the POI.

My Opinion

So it is your belief that the police would never put out a false picture of a POI in order to manipulate possible witnesses, to make them feel comfortable? I admit I know nothing about the professional ethics of sketch artists, but would they never work with police to influence the parties to the case? And if a POI was made up out of whole cloth, he would have to be described as having some general appearance. Since (maybe) he doesn't exist, what difference would it make to say he was NA, or whatever? When a suspect is described with my general appearance (middle aged Caucasian woman), it doesn't bother me. Just wondering...I don't think this would disrespect the NA community.

cloudajo
07-22-2008, 08:03 PM
Flowerchild, SeriouslySearching, Get Smart, and others--wow, thanks for these threads and the incredible amount of information and thinking in them.


Yes, this is my first post, but I've been thinking about a scenario to explain locations, motivation, etc. If anyone wants to comment:

I believe that if these two girls came upon someone they knew doing something wrong, that they would act like they knew it, but never even begin to think that they could be killed under the circumstances. I think the girls would have turned around and walked home after saying, like, "<Person's name>, you're in trouble now" or somesuch. I think this is most likely if the person were a family member/close friend.

Now, say that the person is connected to local distribution of drugs. And they were there getting drugs from a major player in drug distribution. The major player may think, those girls have to go. He drives away from the scene, overtakes them on the road, and shoots them there.

<snipped for space>

Well, back to reading. Happy to meet you all. tapu

Makes sense to me.

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 08:34 PM
Tapu :
• The girls were walking back from where they saw whatever it was because nothing would be going down in view of the driveway. That's just where the guy(s) caught up to them.
• The person the girls knew may not have had much to do with the decision to kill them. He tells the girls to go away when they come upon the scene. It's the other guy(s) who care nothing about who the girls are and who think they need to kill them to keep from being described. (or, in that case, maybe the girls knew the id of the person but were not close to them)

Welcome to Websleuths Tapu :)

Very astute observation there. You know in the beginning of this thing we were remarking that it gave us the creeps like in that movie "Old men with no country" if you have seen it you know what I mean. That killer was mean & all about business...of killing what ever got in his way.

I think if it was young kids they would kill animals for thrill or target practice.

But when you explained your thoughts I could see that happening.
The non killer saying "oh those are just the little neighbor girls, they'll forget about it by tomorrow."
But if told them to "shoo get home you little pia's"
The girls reply with "hey your not the boss of me"
Killer saying " you better get out of here I mean it & now"
Girls say " Not ..wait till I tell my dad, you'll be sorry "..

I mean I can really see something like that happen JMO

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 08:38 PM
cloudajo; ]Does anyone know if Angela Herring is still the Mayor of Weleetka?

This article from Oct 2007 was the only reference I could find of her as the mayor.

TIA.

http://newsok.com/article/3160111/1193767534?


WOW cloudjo WTH? Hey locals where are you?

Tom'sGirl
07-22-2008, 09:00 PM
Very astute observation there. You know in the beginning of this thing we were remarking that it gave us the creeps like in that movie "Old men with no country"
"No Country for Old Men" :)

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 09:08 PM
Thank You TG LOL.. Say good nite gracie ...

No hijack intended just WTH?
So here I am looking up stuff about the town mayor & all & found this..
Man o man this is pretty bad. If it is any indication how the little towns are ran in Ok look out

Krebs mayor arrested

http://newsok.com/krebs-mayor-arrested/article/3273266
KREBS, Okla. - The mayor of Krebs has been arrested on a complaint of a convicted felon in possession of firearms.
Krebs Police Chief Dennis Cook says 54-year-old Kent Vicars was taken into custody without incident on Monday.
Vicars was booked at the Pittsburg County Jail on a complaint of possession of firearms after a felony conviction after officers executed a search warrant and found 18 guns.............................................. ...... ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,
Cooks says officers found rifles, shotguns and pistols at the mayor's residence.
Prosecutors say they plan to file charges of a convicted felon in possession of a police scanner and of firearms.

tapu
07-22-2008, 09:13 PM
It's a scenario LE is considering, in releasing that wrenching 911 tape. (i'd think)

(I mean the part about someone they know having been there, but that person not being the perp.)

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 09:15 PM
cloudajo; ]Does anyone know if Angela Herring is still the Mayor of Weleetka?

This article from Oct 2007 was the only reference I could find of her as the mayor.

TIA.

http://newsok.com/article/3160111/1193767534?


WOW cloudjo WTH? Hey locals where are you?

I'm local to henryetta but not weleetka

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 09:17 PM
She isn't the mayor right now, but don't ask me who is I can't remember

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 09:17 PM
Thank You TG LOL.. Say good nite gracie ...

No hijack intended just WTH?
So here I am looking up stuff about the town mayor & all & found this..
Man o man this is pretty bad. If it is any indication how the little towns are ran in Ok look out

Krebs mayor arrested

http://newsok.com/krebs-mayor-arrested/article/3273266
KREBS, Okla. - The mayor of Krebs has been arrested on a complaint of a convicted felon in possession of firearms.
Krebs Police Chief Dennis Cook says 54-year-old Kent Vicars was taken into custody without incident on Monday.
Vicars was booked at the Pittsburg County Jail on a complaint of possession of firearms after a felony conviction after officers executed a search warrant and found 18 guns.............................................. ...... ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,
Cooks says officers found rifles, shotguns and pistols at the mayor's residence.
Prosecutors say they plan to file charges of a convicted felon in possession of a police scanner and of firearms.

I have said (with fear) from the very beginning, but at Topix, what crooked LE we have in those parts. I wish OSBI would investigate LE in those towns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It may not be OSBI hiding anything, but local LE lying or fumbled up the crime scene from the beginning and gave false reports from that point. Hey, it happens! I could tell you a story or two that would make the hair on your neck stand up!

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 09:21 PM
A friend of mine tried to get OSBI to come in and investigate the murder of her daughter, and LE told them to go away, that they had it under control, it was an accident.
An accident? The woman had her face in a pond, mud all the way up her nostrils and into her throat according to the funeral home, a footprint on her head and footprints in the mud beside her head, according to a friend who was the EMS that was there.... and more. An accident? Wanna go out and let me show ya?!!!!! And OBBI said, "ok" and left. I guess they just have to have faith in fellow LE, huh?

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 09:23 PM
oh.... and a year or so ago, they prosecuted a judge in Creek county for having a sex toy operating on him while he was on the bench. He served time, if I remember right

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 09:26 PM
So if I get killed for saying this.... never fear, it wont be solved (being sarcastic but honest)

cloudajo
07-22-2008, 09:29 PM
She isn't the mayor right now, but don't ask me who is I can't remember

Ok thanks.

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 09:31 PM
ok........... see? No comment. This is why people are afraid of LE and afraid to talk!!!! Does not anyone see this by now? I have been screaching about it off and on for weeks.

cloudajo
07-22-2008, 09:34 PM
ok........... see? No comment. This is why people are afraid of LE and afraid to talk!!!! Does not anyone see this by now? I have been screaching about it off and on for weeks.

Yes, I definitely see.

tapu
07-22-2008, 09:40 PM
oh.... and a year or so ago, they prosecuted a judge in Creek county for having a sex toy operating on him while he was on the bench. He served time, if I remember right

well, uh... so the system's working! :bang:

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 09:43 PM
its Carroll Hundleston

tapu
07-22-2008, 09:47 PM
Here's something I can't find, even in the latest "catch-up" post:

Where specifically were the girls going and why? I get that they were walking to the bridge, but is there more about that somewhere?

thanx

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 09:49 PM
Its like with anything, there are always a few bad apples in the bunch, can't judge all LE bases on action of one

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 10:02 PM
well, uh... so the system's working! :bang:

uh, yea, sometimes. If you can get some squealers like me. But everyone is afraid to rock the boat. This IS LE I am talking about. I live here. Have for 50 years. I'm not toopid to this stuff.

People talk, but nothing happens.

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 10:03 PM
Its like with anything, there are always a few bad apples in the bunch, can't judge all LE bases on action of one

You know exactly what I am talking about. Actions of ONE? ALL LE? I didnt say that.

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 10:04 PM
Hey Frog.. & everybody ..I keep that "server busy' message. You know I have never had that problem before till this week..

Frog small towns are great .Grew uo in one myself, I can remember the Police Chief's brother busting up a lb of pot out of a garbage bag on the hood of his car on US19.....

Ruflossn
07-22-2008, 10:08 PM
Hi Frog and GetSmart~

I got both of your messages. Thank-you for writing back. I feel much better after some time away. I am going to try and read the posts and catch up.

Flossie

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 10:10 PM
well........ people stay confused as to why things just dont make sense. Then you take an old fogie like me, who grew up in those parts, who gets the guts to point something out, and it's like..... they cant believe it!
I have been soooooooooooooooo distraught over this, and I think mostly because I am afraid it will go down unsolved just like most everything else down here does. And that breaks my heart! Its time for that to stop!!!! We need answers, not things shoved under the rug or left hanging to soon be forgotten. We just need to keep pushing so this is NOT forgotten.

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 10:13 PM
A Community Searches For Answers
posted 9:20 pm Mon June 09, 2008 - Weleetka


http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0608/527045.html

"My first thought was pedophile" said Roy Puckett.

And neighbors at the local diner.

"Oh everybody knows everybody here," said Lori Patrick.

And everyone today had heard some sort of rumor as to who did it.

"People on drugs, you can not predict what they'll do," said Puckett.

"I think they said they were like 19 years old," said Mosher.

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 10:18 PM
You are so right .. confusing & I am now sure after that presser just plain lame

KR2tonenow
07-22-2008, 10:22 PM
No revenge say for Skyla's brother, who has a reduced sentenced after helping murder some poor kid in Kansas? Say revenge for Taylor's uncle who had connections with the Banditos? Did Jessica Brown dig deep into those 2 scenarios, Just wondering?

tapu
07-22-2008, 10:29 PM
No revenge say for Skyla's brother, who has a reduced sentenced after helping murder some poor kid in Kansas? Say revenge for Taylor's uncle who had connections with the Banditos? Did Jessica Brown dig deep into those 2 scenarios, Just wondering?

The timing and location argue more for a crime of opportunity, if that is even how it could be described. I mean an unplanned crime.

Of course, the perps have to be some hard dudes to have the guns and to do what they did. Not too many people could empty a gun into two little girls' heads.

cloudajo
07-22-2008, 10:29 PM
well........ people stay confused as to why things just dont make sense. Then you take an old fogie like me, who grew up in those parts, who gets the guts to point something out, and it's like..... they cant believe it!
I have been soooooooooooooooo distraught over this, and I think mostly because I am afraid it will go down unsolved just like most everything else down here does. And that breaks my heart! Its time for that to stop!!!! We need answers, not things shoved under the rug or left hanging to soon be forgotten. We just need to keep pushing so this is NOT forgotten.

Agree!

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 10:32 PM
KR2tonenow
No revenge say for Skyla's brother, who has a reduced sentenced after helping murder some poor kid in Kansas? Say revenge for Taylor's uncle who had connections with the Banditos? Did Jessica Brown dig deep into those 2 scenarios, Just wondering?
Today 10:18 PM


I found alot about that ..re the gang ect,, I was thinking about that all along but it seemed ruled out for some reason.

Tom'sGirl
07-22-2008, 10:32 PM
The timing and location argue more for a crime of opportunity, if that is even how it could be described. I mean an unplanned crime.

Of course, the perps have to be some hard dudes to have the guns and to do what they did. Not too many people could empty a gun into two little girls' heads.
I tend to agree with you on unplanned tapu.

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 10:33 PM
Lifesaver, My hubby said there was no barbed wire fence that he saw behind where the girls were lying. But that he very clearly saw a path back into the wooded area, just on the north side of where the girls memorial was. Probably where LE walked back and forth into, but definately a path, maybe older than just that night. I asked if he was certain and he said, "dont you remember me standing there and pointing it out to you?" so maybe there WAS an old path up into the woods there? but he said the barbed wire was across the road on the East side.

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 10:36 PM
This leads me back to thinking about Patterson. But why the poi then? I wonder what Patterson drives.

KR2tonenow
07-22-2008, 10:38 PM
KR2tonenow
No revenge say for Skyla's brother, who has a reduced sentenced after helping murder some poor kid in Kansas? Say revenge for Taylor's uncle who had connections with the Banditos? Did Jessica Brown dig deep into those 2 scenarios, Just wondering?
Today 10:18 PM


I found alot about that ..re the gang ect,, I was thinking about that all along but it seemed ruled out for some reason.

GS, I haven't been able to back track too much. This stuff wouldn't surprise me, these gangs can be vicious.:mad:

GetSmart
07-22-2008, 10:38 PM
Lifesaver, My hubby said there was no barbed wire fence that he saw behind where the girls were lying. But that he very clearly saw a path back into the wooded area, just on the north side of where the girls memorial was. Probably where LE walked back and forth into, but definately a path, maybe older than just that night. I asked if he was certain and he said, "dont you remember me standing there and pointing it out to you?" so maybe there WAS an old path up into the woods there? but he said the barbed wire was across the road on the East side.
We need pics.. next time someone is out that way get us some pics.. I'm not saying you frog ..anybody thats out that way //Thanks

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 10:46 PM
We need pics.. next time someone is out that way get us some pics.. I'm not saying you frog ..anybody thats out that way //Thanks

I want to go back out there to take flowers, next time I go to Henryetta, but I wont go out to that road alone. If I can find anyone to go with me, i will take pics.

I would like to bring up something else we just kinda dropped too. I posted this on Claycats thread:


As was mentioned before, there is an old hermit like man named Patterson, who, it has been previously said in other thread, that he has avoided jail or imprisonment due to the fact that he was found crazy... not mentally right. He lives in the woods almost due West to the Plackers, in a little house, the old homestead. It was once said that he could've walked thru the woods up to where the children were. That maybe he was sick of hearing them play and that it drove him nuts because his own children had been taken away from him years ago. That he could have been watching them for awhile since his property abuts up to Plackers, it seems.
There is a clearing on mapquest... for power lines, very near his house. this clearing goes up near the bridge.
I wonder if there was a Ruth in his life?

If anyone would like to view the area from an aerial view, go to Mapquest, then put in Bryant OK and I can take you there.

Albert18
07-22-2008, 11:18 PM
I have said (with fear) from the very beginning, but at Topix, what crooked LE we have in those parts. I wish OSBI would investigate LE in those towns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It may not be OSBI hiding anything, but local LE lying or fumbled up the crime scene from the beginning and gave false reports from that point. Hey, it happens! I could tell you a story or two that would make the hair on your neck stand up!

If this is true then the actions of OSBI make even less sense. Because what OSBI should be doing is trying to bridge this gap and make people feel confident and comfortable with LE. That isn't happening.

After the press conference I think I have a much greater understanding of what LE is doing. Many others have mentioned it and tapu has been discussing the type of crime it may have been.

I think they figure locals are involved and there were non-shooters. So I don't think LE cares what you, I or anybody else knows or thinks, they are only concerned with the specific people or person they are targeting.

I don't agree with this approach at all. I think it is very high risk and doesn't allow for a plan B.

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 11:23 PM
Well, look closer that is old pasture land out there and that fense is probably 50 years old, its actually attached to some post, and some trees. Skyla was headed in that direction from what I've been told of where her body was lying

Ruflossn
07-22-2008, 11:25 PM
Frog and Get Smart~

I am out for the night. I am exhausted. All the words on the posts are running together.

xxooxxoo

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 11:30 PM
You have confused me now. I thought you said LE can't be trusted "confused"

tapu
07-22-2008, 11:30 PM
If this is true then the actions of OSBI make even less sense. Because what OSBI should be doing is trying to bridge this gap and make people feel confident and comfortable with LE. That isn't happening.

After the press conference I think I have a much greater understanding of what LE is doing. Many others have mentioned it and tapu has been discussing the type of crime it may have been.

I think they figure locals are involved and there were non-shooters. So I don't think LE cares what you, I or anybody else knows or thinks, they are only concerned with the specific people or person they are targeting.

I don't agree with this approach at all. I think it is very high risk and doesn't allow for a plan B.


I would think that plan B would be turning the Oklahoma drug subculture inside out. I bet Narcotics is hitting people they know hard about this. Roll over on this shooter and get some serious cred to use when you need it.

The natural parallel is the emotional approach: the 911 call. That's to get a non-thug to come forward. As you say, Albert, the local non-shooter who fears saying anything (wow, would you fear it or what at that point?) but is sick to death about what happened.

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 11:33 PM
South Padre Island is getting high winds already, from Dolly. Happy I'm not in Dollys path.

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 11:40 PM
I'm sure this well never be forgotten, solved I don't have a lot of faith it well ever be solved,there just isnt many clues to work with.I watch lots of "cold case" and in the end a person is finally caught, and they confess to many murders and even help locate the buried bodies. Maybe, this could be the case.

Nickelfoo
07-22-2008, 11:41 PM
Sorry if this has been mentioned, but didnt Harvey Pratt work on the "Girl Scout Murders" back in the 70's? I read a book on that a few months back and I seem to remember his name. I think he was a detective on that case?

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 11:45 PM
I don't connect a Ruth, do you mean a family member? He has a sisters Carol, Betty and two brother Bobby and Eddie

LifeSaver
07-22-2008, 11:48 PM
I'm not sure, another unsolved case. If I remember right wasn't there 3 girls killed at Locust Grove?

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 11:51 PM
This story stuck out to me because of the "runaway" reference. Initials of juvenile identified as C.H.

18 yr old arrested on June 18th in Welling (which is about 2 hrs from Weleetka).

Could be totally unrelated...

June 27th - TAHLEQUAH DAILY PRESS —
Cherokee County prosecutors charged a Welling man Wednesday for possessing a sawed-off shotgun/rifle and harboring runaway child.
Wade L. Ritchie, 18, was arrested by Tahlequah Police Officer Luke Hixon June 18. Ritchie allegedly had in his possession a shotgun with a barrel only 17.5 inches and overall length of only 24.5 inches.

Ritchie was also allegedly housing a runaway juvenile, identified in court documents as C.H.

Article: http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_179093846.html (http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_179093846.html)
Court Records (search on Ritchie, Wade - case filed on on 6/25): http://www.odcr.com/detail.php?Case=011-CF%20%200800234&County=011- (http://www.odcr.com/detail.php?Case=011-CF%20%200800234&County=011-)
(Note: Some of the other court records under same name are for his father I believe, because of the year)
Map – It’s about 2 hrs from Weleetka to Welling (Welling is very close to Tahlequah, NE of Weleetka): http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=weleetka,+ok&daddr=welling+ok+map&sll=35.92242,-94.899902&sspn=1.05648,2.39502&ie=UTF8&ll=35.630512,-95.52063&spn=1.060366,2.39502&z=9 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=weleetka,+ok&daddr=welling+ok+map&sll=35.92242,-94.899902&sspn=1.05648,2.39502&ie=UTF8&ll=35.630512,-95.52063&spn=1.060366,2.39502&z=9)
Myspace of Wade L. Richtie (last login 6/16): http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=263320463 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=263320463)
If you go to the Myspace for Wade Richie, then click on his friend, Felicia, go to her page, and she has a friend there named Logan who is 16 and from Henryetta.
I know this is off what we are discussing at the moment, yet a reply to a posting earlier today.

FlowerChild
07-22-2008, 11:57 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=244&pictureid=2080

According to Rosser this is an illustration of where the bodies were found

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=244&pictureid=2198

aerial view with crime scene and other landmarks

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=244&pictureid=2698

full length view with Patterson Home marked (I have a high rez version if anyone needs/wants it PM me and I will send it)

I did all of these based on information from OSBI and Research
My Opinion

frogjustfrog
07-22-2008, 11:57 PM
I don't connect a Ruth, do you mean a family member? He has a sisters Carol, Betty and two brother Bobby and Eddie

Hi lifesaver. Sorry to confuse you. I couldnt get back on. Server Busy.

The Ruth part has to do with something from another poster. You would need to go to Claycat's thread to read it. I'm not much help, but Ruth was a name another psychic mentioned. I didnt mean to add that to my post. sorry

Oh... and the fence. I didnt mean you could see the fence from Mapquest. I was just going to try to help people with location and such, from earlier postings where they were talking about railroads and hobos and stuff.
I'm tired, stressed.... sugar has been running too high or too low, back and forth. I didnt mean to confuse you.
But glad you are here. Hubby doesnt remember a barbedwire fence behind the memorial but you said once in describing how the girls laid, that there eas one. He just remembered the path that went back into the woods where Skyla laid. I wondered if you had noticed that, or if there was a fence there. He didnt think there was.

frogjustfrog
07-23-2008, 12:00 AM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=244&pictureid=2080

According to Rosser this is an illustration of where the bodies were found

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=244&pictureid=2198

aerial view with crime scene and other landmarks

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=244&pictureid=2698

full length view with Patterson Home marked (I have a high rez version if anyone needs/wants it PM me and I will send it)

I did all of these based on information from OSBI and Research
My Opinion

bolded above by me. I would love if you could send me that version. Thank you in advance:)

LifeSaver
07-23-2008, 12:00 AM
Goodness it is late and I have a busy day tomorrow. Take care all you Sleuthers, and God Bless

LifeSaver
07-23-2008, 12:07 AM
Pattersons house is behind the first one, right? I can barely see it. Newmans livein the first house.

FlowerChild
07-23-2008, 12:07 AM
Here's something I can't find, even in the latest "catch-up" post:

Where specifically were the girls going and why? I get that they were walking to the bridge, but is there more about that somewhere?

thanx
Peter Placker said Taylor had been walking down to the bridge for several months to exercise - he did not say so, but I betcha there were a few boys hanging around down there sometimes too, Taylor was 13, old enough to be a little interested in the boys. The bridge was a bit of a "kids" hangout - not much else to do out in the country for kids under 16.

Peter Placker did say that it was just in the last few months that they allowed Taylor to walk down there alone - after she told them she was getting older and they should trust her --- the usual "give me some freedom" phase that 12 and 13 year olds go thru. Taylor had turned 13 a few month ago - she was a year behind in school - kids her age are usually going into the 8th grade, not the 7th. Taylor would have turned 14 before she finished 7th grade and 16 before she finished 9th grade

My Opinion

LifeSaver
07-23-2008, 12:08 AM
Its been soooooooooo many years since I've traveled up that road. You couldn't pay me enough money to drive up there

frogjustfrog
07-23-2008, 12:13 AM
Its been soooooooooo many years since I've traveled up that road. You couldn't pay me enough money to drive up there

Lol I dont mean the road to Patterson's. You couldnt pay me enough either. I think it just goes to his house.
The road begins just past Plackers.... you can barely see it for the trees. Looks almost like a path.
His house is right behind Plackers if I am seeing this right.


Ok... I guess I wasnt right. I thought it was the little marking right almost due west behind Plackers. Just a little dot practically. That was the way I first understood it before FC showed this to us. I thought they said DIRECTLY behind Plackers. There IS a road, almost like a path, that goes to somethig there.
Wonder what it is?

LifeSaver
07-23-2008, 12:14 AM
Good job FC....I guess that old white house isn't there anymore. Wouldn't you hate to have that monster in our back yard. Scarey !!

LifeSaver
07-23-2008, 12:17 AM
I think its S/W of Plackers, and I'm getting scared just talking about him. He could sneak up behind us, and nevermind

frogjustfrog
07-23-2008, 12:22 AM
I think its S/W of Plackers, and I'm getting scared just talking about him. He could sneak up behind us, and nevermind

I know! From what I have heard, it scares me too. And just to think that anyone could be in that dense thicket looking when people are down there! I have to go take a pic of the old restaurant for Char and I am scared to go now!!!!!

Know anyone big and ugly to go with me? lol

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2008, 12:24 AM
oh.... and a year or so ago, they prosecuted a judge in Creek county for having a sex toy operating on him while he was on the bench. He served time, if I remember rightWell...technically it wasn't a sex toy. It was a penis pump so it is in the category of sexual aides. Yes, he was arrested for using it during trials (court reporter testified she could hear it during trials and had seen it at least 15 times). He was sentenced to 4 years and was fined $40,000.00. He retired in 2004.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13599320/
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=38981

FlowerChild
07-23-2008, 12:24 AM
So it is your belief that the police would never put out a false picture of a POI in order to manipulate possible witnesses, to make them feel comfortable? I admit I know nothing about the professional ethics of sketch artists, but would they never work with police to influence the parties to the case? And if a POI was made up out of whole cloth, he would have to be described as having some general appearance. Since (maybe) he doesn't exist, what difference would it make to say he was NA, or whatever? When a suspect is described with my general appearance (middle aged Caucasian woman), it doesn't bother me. Just wondering...I don't think this would disrespect the NA community.
It would be discriminatory - anywhere, but especially in Oklahoma. You must understand that like African Americans, Native Americans were treated like like they were less than human - they even took their CHILDREN away to Indian Schools (boarding schools) and tried to make the kids more "white". They have endured 200 years of abuse and lies from the white man who took their land, their languages, their religion, their way of life and finally their children. The 5 civilized tribes in OK are there because they were forced from their homes in many other states to walk to OK on a march every bit as brutal and deadly as those death marches by the Nazi's in Germany.

The Native American community is quite powerful in OK and they would be marching on the capitol building in a heartbeat and holding press conferences if this "fake POI" were to happen. Members of the NA community have already spoken out about the POI being a NA man with long hair (considered traditional NA) being too generic and possibly encouraging racist behavior by potentially targeting too many innocent NA men.

I can assure you this did NOT happen and no traditional Peace Chief of the Cheyenne Tribe would EVER agree to do this, he would resign first.

My Opinion

frogjustfrog
07-23-2008, 12:24 AM
forgive me please. Back to topic. Did anything ever get resolved about this old guy? Last I heard he hasnt been cleared.

LifeSaver
07-23-2008, 12:28 AM
I've been there many times, and usually its pretty crowded. Cars going in and out, pumpers and oil trucks etc. Just watch the woods very closely, I do

Fairy1
07-23-2008, 12:29 AM
Peter Placker said Taylor had been walking down to the bridge for several months to exercise - he did not say so, but I betcha there were a few boys hanging around down there sometimes too, Taylor was 13, old enough to be a little interested in the boys. The bridge was a bit of a "kids" hangout - not much else to do out in the country for kids under 16.

Peter Placker did say that it was just in the last few months that they allowed Taylor to walk down there alone - after she told them she was getting older and they should trust her --- the usual "give me some freedom" phase that 12 and 13 year olds go thru. Taylor had turned 13 a few month ago - she was a year behind in school - kids her age are usually going into the 8th grade, not the 7th. Taylor would have turned 14 before she finished 7th grade and 16 before she finished 9th grade

My Opinion

Oh - this is so very sad. From everything we've learned, Taylor was their baby and I believe they did everything in their power to protect her. I'm certain that - in their worst dreams - they NEVER could have imagined something like this would happen. Who would? My heart goes out to them and I honestly believe that when this case is solved, it will be something that none of us could have imagined. IMO, of course.

LifeSaver
07-23-2008, 12:30 AM
Patterson? is that who you are referring to

LifeSaver
07-23-2008, 12:32 AM
I think everyone has fallen asleep.

LifeSaver
07-23-2008, 12:34 AM
Good night everyone

frogjustfrog
07-23-2008, 12:35 AM
Patterson? is that who you are referring to

Life, if you would hit the quote button when you are responding to a posting, it would be easier to know what you are refering to.
Smiling and just trying to be helpful.
I think the server is still very busy. I keep getting that.

Fairy1
07-23-2008, 12:36 AM
It would be discriminatory - anywhere, but especially in Oklahoma. You must understand that like African Americans, Native Americans were treated like like they were less than human - they even took their CHILDREN away to Indian Schools (boarding schools) and tried to make the kids more "white". They have endured 200 years of abuse and lies from the white man who took their land, their languages, their religion, their way of life and finally their children. The 5 civilized tribes in OK are there because they were forced from their homes in many other states to walk to OK on a march every bit as brutal and deadly as those death marches by the Nazi's in Germany.

The Native American community is quite powerful in OK and they would be marching on the capitol building in a heartbeat and holding press conferences if this "fake POI" were to happen. Members of the NA community have already spoken out about the POI being a NA man with long hair (considered traditional NA) being too generic and possibly encouraging racist behavior by potentially targeting too many innocent NA men.

I can assure you this did NOT happen and no traditional Peace Chief of the Cheyenne Tribe would EVER agree to do this, he would resign first.

My Opinion

I don't understand - what would not happen? IIRC - there were 6 witnesses who saw the POI. It would be ignorant and irresponsible for ANYONE to say that just because he appeared to be NA, he wasn't. They can only go on what the witnesses said. Never should the fear of racial profiling stand in the way of an honest description of a POI. If that is the way the wind is blowing, we can ALL kiss our a**es goodbye!