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steadychick
05-06-2009, 04:41 PM
The facts show that KC did not abandon the car. She set about talking Amy into buying a gas can (described in latest documents). Amy and KC actually bought the can on 30th July but were just too late to retrieve the car before it was towed from Amscot. KC DID NOT abandon the car because she tried to retrieve it?

But if I remember right, there is no indication that KC or Amy ever put gas in that can or actually went to retrieve the car. And no statement from anyone that the car was gone when they went to pick it up. If KC or her friends knew that the car was gone, wouldn't someone have said so and/or called and reported it stolen?

Hot Dogs
05-06-2009, 04:43 PM
Not only did she leave the car she left her purse in it. I think she was hoping it would get stolen.


I thought we learned that she didn't leave her purse in the car. The "black leather bag" was a (empty) CD holder type bag.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 04:45 PM
Oh My, I never thought about it this way. She certainly couldn't have kept that smelly car around for Tony to get a whiff of. This explains the pings that show her driving around and around (trying to run out of gas?) before calling Tony to pick her up. But why even go through the motions of trying to locate a gas can, unless she was hoping the car would be gone when she went to pick it up. And I'd forgotten that she lied about the gas indicator being broken -- didn't LE check that out and found that it worked just fine?

That smell must have really thrown a monkey wrench in her plans. What was she planning to do with no car -- how was she going to get to "work"? I know, I know, KC doesn't plan.

IMO she went through the motions of trying to locate a gas can to cover her you know what! I feel this way because she didn't persist until she got gas for her car. If she really wanted that car back, she would have gotten it back.

LancelotLink
05-06-2009, 04:45 PM
I've said the same thing. Not only did she leave the car she left her purse in it. I think she was hoping it would get stolen.

The night she got rid of the car at Amscot, she was texting Amy telling her she got rid of the dead animal smell that was plastered to her car. Thats very very telling to me.

The purse. This is kind of O/T , but I recall Cindy during the LE interview. Yuri set her purse up onto the table so she would not forget it and she replied, "Women don't leave their purses in cars or other places." Does anyone remember that? I thought how odd that statement unless you are trying so hard to plant the Jesse seed of guilt.

steadychick
05-06-2009, 04:47 PM
The car was towed on June 30. June 30 to July 15 -- she had to know it was gone, did not try to find it, did not call and report it stolen, and led her friends to believe that George was taking care of it and having it fixed. Nope, sorry, but I don't think this shows she was trying to retrieve it.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 04:48 PM
The facts show that KC did not abandon the car. She set about talking Amy into buying a gas can (described in latest documents). Amy and KC actually bought the can on 30th July but were just too late to retrieve the car before it was towed from Amscot. KC DID NOT abandon the car because she tried to retrieve it?
Good point but, how come she tried to retreive it on the day it was towed? Did she know the car was towed? Did she check the parking lot periodically to see if the car was still there? And again. She had access to money way before the 30th. She had stolen those checks from Amy and was using them as early as July 7th. Why wait until the 30th when the car was towed away to suddenly get a gas for the car?

Jess1985
05-06-2009, 04:51 PM
"uh 911, I just stole this car and there's something wrong with it. Uh huh, it smells like there's been a dead body in the trunk."

You just made my night :):clap:

AmyMB
05-06-2009, 04:55 PM
Thank you. Now it may say I joined in Feb 2009, I have been here from the start. I finally have a normal email address. It may be a good thing,since my thoughts were not so interesting when this all started. I am still very upset about this whole case,just a little more focused. I have felt allot of emotions reading all of the posts,and actually had one lady in Florida I would follow. She was digging around by the school. I haven't noticed much from her lately and hope this case didn't pull her down too low.Okay don't want to get in trouble going OT. Back to the car...

Rumpole
05-06-2009, 05:00 PM
Good point but, how come she tried to retreive it on the day it was towed? Did she know the car was towed? Did she check the parking lot periodically to see if the car was still there? And again. She had access to money way before the 30th. She had stolen those checks from Amy and was using them as early as July 7th. Why wait until the 30th when the car was towed away to suddenly get a gas for the car?

IIR KC took a while to convince Amy to buy a gas can, so she was trying before it was towed. Also speculation that KC returned to Anthony home possibly to steal gas again on 29th? I think it took KC a while to organise getting gas from 27th to 30th.

steadychick
05-06-2009, 05:04 PM
Good point but, how come she tried to retreive it on the day it was towed? Did she know the car was towed? Did she check the parking lot periodically to see if the car was still there? And again. She had access to money way before the 30th. She had stolen those checks from Amy and was using them as early as July 7th. Why wait until the 30th when the car was towed away to suddenly get a gas for the car?

Is there anything to indicate that she actually did try to retrieve it????? Did she or Amy ever fill that gas can???? I don't recall where I saw it, but I don't think they did. Does anyone remember where anyone stated that they filled the gas can and tried to get the car and found it was gone?

TallyHo
05-06-2009, 05:07 PM
Is it possible that she thought the smell would dissipate in a few days (as she had taken care of the "squirrel" problem) so when she went back to get it with Amy, it would no longer smell??

natsound
05-06-2009, 05:08 PM
But how about the audio of the interview with TonE, when officers are driving him around to pinpoint the spot where he went to pick up KC on one occasion when she ran out of gas? Can't remember the date off hand. LE kept asking him if he smelled anything, how close he got to the trunk, etc. This was after Caylee was killed, and it seems he could have smelled the trunk then, but didn't. He didn't imply that KC was trying to keep him away from the trunk either.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 05:08 PM
IIR KC took a while to convince Amy to buy a gas can, so she was trying before it was towed. Also speculation that KC returned to Anthony home possibly to steal gas again on 29th? I think it took KC a while to organise getting gas from 27th to 30th.
And again, she had money on July 7th. That's when she wrote the bad check at Target. She had access to over 700 dollars. More than enough money to get the car from the tow yard and pay any fines.

IMO she did not want that car back.

Do you mean June 27th instead of July 27th. I'm also confused about the gas cans She had some gas cans and George wanted them back. And she would not let him into the trunk of the car to get them. Is this the incident you are referring to?

ETA: Like our newest poster said, when her mom asked her why she didn't go back for the car, Casey said, "I don't know mom."

That is very telling IMO.

MAMABEAR
05-06-2009, 05:10 PM
Long time lurker..First time I felt I could contribute a good decent thought. The jailhouse interview it is asked by CA"why didn't she come back for the car?" Her reply was "I don't know mom". Then it is left alone. She IMO is telling them that she abandoned that car because Z told her to,it was part of the script. She had to lie to everyone else because she was in fear for their lives.,or whatever she tells them. Yeah? May be I am way off...just had to jump in somewhere and thought this may be good. Of course we all get it, but this may be what they are using.

:balloons::Welcome-12-june::balloons:

Good first post. Bolded is what I heard also. My BFF says she thinks CA said, "Why didn't sha (meaning--->you) pick up the car". First time I heard that, I figured that when Amy was possed to bring gas that KC wanted Amy's fanger-prints on the car. Wonder if she had ask Amy to move the car for her---she already told Amy the smell was from a dead squirrel. I have always thought Amy was fixin to take the rap.

See, I have always thought that the "cover up" and the "script" started way before e-body thinks. I think she went into hiding because she knew one of the family members knew what she had done and they told her they would help her, but she had to do what they wanted her to do. Just lay low until "they/he/she could get the ball rolling". then they couldn't find her.

mysteriew
05-06-2009, 05:11 PM
With KC it is hard to tell whether she actually intended to retrieve the car or not. Maybe she went through the charade and really intended to go back to get it after Tone returned- giving her the opportunity to drive his (better smelling) car while he was gone. Or maybe she didn't intend to go back for it, but later found it a major inconvenience not to have a car- so decided to go back for it. Or maybe she didn't intend to go back for it, but needed an excuse for not having it- without looking guilty herself. Thus talking Amy into buying the gas cans and going after the car- then she could look so surprised and scared about her "stolen" car. But time got away from her and she didn't get it done before CA found out it was towed and found her.

NocturnalLady
05-06-2009, 05:11 PM
I don't think Casey ever plans anything enough to back herself into having only one option. It's part of her psych profile to be playing many angles at one time. She always puts several "plans" into motion at once and then sits back and waits to see which one ends up being the one that pans out. Then she goes with that one.

In regards to the car one angle she had going was she was hoping it might get stolen. If it didn't well then at least she had the smell covered up for a few days by parking it near the dumpster. Another angle - she tried to lure Jessie into helping her out with the car (in order to get him to leave evidence) and that angle didn't work. Another angle - ditch the car just long enough so as not to have Tony ride in it and expose him to the horrible smell. Another angle - hope that the car gets towed. Casey may not have known that the tow yard would contact the owner of the car. She may have thought that if the car was towed then it would essentialy just "go away". Another angle - possibly she hoped her parents might find the car and think she and Caylee had been abducted. Another angle - in typical Casey style - just dump it and deal with it later if none of the other plans work out.

The smartest thing LP ever said was that Casey lives her life ten minutes at a time. And thank goodness she does or she would have been smarter about concealing her crime.

MAMABEAR
05-06-2009, 05:17 PM
Welcome long time lurker. I was a very long lurker before I felt I could contribute. Now no one can shut me up. lol :)

Interesting thought AmyMB - you should post more.

Me 2. Hard to shut up once you walk thru that door.:Banane12:

MAMABEAR
05-06-2009, 05:19 PM
But if I remember right, there is no indication that KC or Amy ever put gas in that can or actually went to retrieve the car. And no statement from anyone that the car was gone when they went to pick it up. If KC or her friends knew that the car was gone, wouldn't someone have said so and/or called and reported it stolen?

Was there any part of Amy's interview with-held? Or maybe it is her interview and we missed it.

azwriter
05-06-2009, 05:21 PM
I think it was towed on July 30. It was left there on June 27 according to Casey's text message to Amy concerning running out of gas.

The person who called the towing company said she could not tell if the car smelled because it was parked next to a dumpster.

I'm sure it was hot [it was July in Florida]. What a perfect place to leave a smelly car. Next to a dumpster on a hot Florida day.

The car left on June 27 and towed July 30, a full month later? Are you sure?
just checking on those dates.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 05:21 PM
But how about the audio of the interview with TonE, when officers are driving him around to pinpoint the spot where he went to pick up KC on one occasion when she ran out of gas? Can't remember the date off hand. LE kept asking him if he smelled anything, how close he got to the trunk, etc. This was after Caylee was killed, and it seems he could have smelled the trunk then, but didn't. He didn't imply that KC was trying to keep him away from the trunk either.

The lady who called the towing company told police that because the car was parked next to the dumpster it would be hard to tell if there was any ordor coming from the car.

debbie0604
05-06-2009, 05:21 PM
Thank you for the info. Still the car was dumped. She never went to retrieve it. She never called George to let him know the car was having "mechanical problems"

And why didn't she get the car detailed? IMO she had plenty of money available when she got a hold of Amy's checks.
No way in the world if I was guilty of murdering someone would I take the car with the decomposition smell to get it detailed. That's a smell that is "distinct" and the person who would be detailing the car could possibly become suspicious and notify the police.

(KC tried to say it was the smell of an animal, but human decomposition is "distinctly different" from that of an animal).

She wanted to get rid of the car because of the smell, and I'm thinking that she also changed clothes somewhere too before getting into TL's car. Otherwise, she too would have been "reeking." (Probably was the clothes that CA found and washed). Seems she left everything - that smell will also permeate everything.

Searchfortruth
05-06-2009, 05:28 PM
And again, she had money on July 7th. That's when she wrote the bad check at Target. She had access to over 700 dollars. More than enough money to get the car from the tow yard and pay any fines.

IMO she did not want that car back.

Do you mean June 27th instead of July 27th. I'm also confused about the gas cans She had some gas cans and George wanted them back. And she would not let him into the trunk of the car to get them. Is this the incident you are referring to?

ETA: Like our newest poster said, when her mom asked her why she didn't go back for the car, Casey said, "I don't know mom."

That is very telling IMO.I agree, she didn't want the car. I wonder if she thought that someone had actually stolen the car after it was towed. She had to consider the possibility that Amscot would have it towed, and we have not heard anything about her calling Amscot or the tow lot to see if her car was there. There was no good reason for Casey to leave that car that long and not once inquire about it, she knew she couldn't keep the car with that smell.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 05:31 PM
The car left on June 27 and towed July 30, a full month later? Are you sure?
just checking on those dates.


Hi, I'm just going by the transcript of the deposition of Cynthia S. The person who called the towing company. You can read it here:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Sanchez,%20Catherine0724.pdf

Kathy1964
05-06-2009, 05:33 PM
I've often wondered why she didn't take it somewhere and set it afire to destroy the decomp and other evidence. If I were a murderer, I would want to destroy any and everything that could tie me to the crime. But KC wan't big on long range planning obviously.

(1)Because police would probably have been alerted due the the car fire.The search for Caylee would have started at that time,which KC did not want,and, (2)you need a can of gas to douse the car to burn it, and we know she never had any gas :)

Searchfortruth
05-06-2009, 05:36 PM
I wonder if Casey left any paperwork in the car, glove compartment, such as registration, proof of insurance ? I don't remember hearing anything about this. If she took the papers such as the registration that would be, IMO, just further proof that she was trying to ditch the car permanently and erase her ties to it...of course there is always the VIN, but Casey doesn't seem to plan these things out well.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 05:37 PM
No way in the world if I was guilty of murdering someone would I take the car with the decomposition smell to get it detailed. That's a smell that is "distinct" and the person who would be detailing the car could possibly become suspicious and notify the police.

(KC tried to say it was the smell of an animal, but human decomposition is "distinctly different" from that of an animal).

She wanted to get rid of the car because of the smell, and I'm thinking that she also changed clothes somewhere too before getting into TL's car. Otherwise, she too would have been "reeking." (Probably was the clothes that CA found and washed). Seems she left everything - that smell will also permeate everything.

Exactly!

natsound
05-06-2009, 05:39 PM
The lady who called the towing company told police that because the car was parked next to the dumpster it would be hard to tell if there was any ordor coming from the car.

This is a different incident. I'm talking about the FIRST time KC has TonE pick her up because her car is out of gas. He picked her up somewhere on the road, not far from her house. It may have been on June 20. The only explanation is that perhaps the decomp in the car didn't stink yet.. it was too soon after Caylee's death.

Searchfortruth
05-06-2009, 05:39 PM
Hi, I'm just going by the transcript of the deposition of Cynthia Sanchez. The person who called the towing company. You can read it here:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Sanchez,%20Catherine0724.pdfThat may be a mistake, the car was at Amscot for three days...from June 27th to June 30th, the day it was towed.

debbie0604
05-06-2009, 05:39 PM
IIR KC took a while to convince Amy to buy a gas can, so she was trying before it was towed. Also speculation that KC returned to Anthony home possibly to steal gas again on 29th? I think it took KC a while to organise getting gas from 27th to 30th.
I thought that when AL picked KC up at Amscot, she told him that her dad would pick the car up. Am I wrong? I just assumed that she didn't want anyone around the car.

essies
05-06-2009, 05:45 PM
How unfortunate that the towtruck guy had a cold or someone from Amscott didn't get close enough to smell the car! I just wish LE had been called to Amscott instead of Hopesprings Dr.! Just think of all the evidence the prosecution would have now!!:banghead:

brownflower
05-06-2009, 05:45 PM
I agree, she didn't want the car. I wonder if she thought that someone had actually stolen the car after it was towed. She had to consider the possibility that Amscot would have it towed, and we have not heard anything about her calling Amscot or the tow lot to see if her car was there. There was no good reason for Casey to leave that car that long and not once inquire about it, she knew she couldn't keep the car with that smell.
That's another good point. If she really wanted the car back. Why didn't she call Amscot to find out if it was towed? Or why didn't she leave a note on the windshield to let them know she ran out of gas and would be back to retrieve it?

She was a single mom who had to get back and forth to work and get her baby to daycare! She needed that car!

Mama Bear, I believe you are so right about her trying to get either Amy or Jesse to drive that car to throw the scent (pun intended) off her.

debbie0604
05-06-2009, 05:48 PM
This is a different incident. I'm talking about the FIRST time KC has TonE pick her up because her car is out of gas. He picked her up somewhere on the road, not far from her house. It may have been on June 20. The only explanation is that perhaps the decomp in the car didn't stink yet.. it was too soon after Caylee's death.
I don't want to sound morbid, but the smell probably would have began around 2 days after death, particularly there in FL.

Intermezzo
05-06-2009, 05:49 PM
Thank you for the info. Still the car was dumped. She never went to retrieve it. She never called George to let him know the car was having "mechanical problems"

And why didn't she get the car detailed? IMO she had plenty of money available when she got a hold of Amy's checks.

Prolly because the car smelled like decomp and she couldn't stand the smell anymore.
Also, for the reason mentioned in an above post..so she didn't have to drive TL to the airport in a decomp smelling car.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 05:50 PM
That may be a mistake, the car was at Amscot for three days...from June 27th to June 30th, the day it was towed.
You are correct it was only three days because at the top of the transcript it says today is July 24, 2008. My bad. It was at the tow yard for a long time.

How does the fine work in that case? Is it a flat fee or is it a daily fee?

Intermezzo
05-06-2009, 05:54 PM
The car was towed on June 30. June 30 to July 15 -- she had to know it was gone, did not try to find it, did not call and report it stolen, and led her friends to believe that George was taking care of it and having it fixed. Nope, sorry, but I don't think this shows she was trying to retrieve it.

I've wondered about how Casey explained away "why she no longer had the pontiac" to everyone
Have any text messages/interview transcripts (other that what TL said, that Casey told him George would take care of it) show if she ever explained her lack of personal wheels thus borrowing TL's and Amy's vehicles.

Searchfortruth
05-06-2009, 05:55 PM
I thought that when AL picked KC up at Amscot, she told him that her dad would pick the car up. Am I wrong? I just assumed that she didn't want anyone around the car.Yes, Casey told Tony that the car had broken down. She knew that if she told him that she ran out of gas, he could have just offered to go and put gas in it. She said that her father picked the car up and was having it worked on, Tony said she went into detail about this...I believe. This will be another piece of evidence for the state...she told Tony it broke down when the truth is she drove it until the gas was on empty.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 05:59 PM
This is a different incident. I'm talking about the FIRST time KC has TonE pick her up because her car is out of gas. He picked her up somewhere on the road, not far from her house. It may have been on June 20. The only explanation is that perhaps the decomp in the car didn't stink yet.. it was too soon after Caylee's death.
Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps Tony knows more than he's telling?

Searchfortruth
05-06-2009, 05:59 PM
That's another good point. If she really wanted the car back. Why didn't she call Amscot to find out if it was towed? Or why didn't she leave a note on the windshield to let them know she ran out of gas and would be back to retrieve it?

She was a single mom who had to get back and forth to work and get her baby to daycare! She needed that car!

Mama Bear, I believe you are so right about her trying to get either Amy or Jesse to drive that car to throw the scent (pun intended) off her.That reminded me of when Cindy told the Detectives that Casey had left a note on the car at Amscot. Of course this is BS, the tow lot guy and maybe someone at Amscot will be able to testify that there was no note.

MAMABEAR
05-06-2009, 05:59 PM
The facts show that KC did not abandon the car. She set about talking Amy into buying a gas can (described in latest documents). Amy and KC actually bought the can on 30th July but were just too late to retrieve the car before it was towed from Amscot. KC DID NOT abandon the car because she tried to retrieve it?

True, but I think she went back to the car because GA/CA told her to because since nobody stole the car so they had to get it off that lot before it was towed or the cops might smell it. Thats why they needed to trap Amy into gittin her prints there. Since nobody stole it they still needed them prints. But KC and Amy got there to late. She didn't tell her rents cuz she can't do anythang right and she didn't want them holler at her. Well, at this point I really don't think CA knew about it yet.

AZlawyer
05-06-2009, 06:12 PM
Yes, Casey told Tony that the car had broken down. She knew that if she told him that she ran out of gas, he could have just offered to go and put gas in it. She said that her father picked the car up and was having it worked on, Tony said she went into detail about this...I believe. This will be another piece of evidence for the state...she told Tony it broke down when the truth is she drove it until the gas was on empty.

OK, so maybe the plan was to NOT get the car back UNTIL Tony had left for New York (June 30, I think), so KC could use his car while he was gone, but then to get the car back after he left so she could figure out what to do with the smell/evidence.

She had to tell Tony the car broke down so he wouldn't just go put gas in it and thwart her plan....but she told Amy she just ran out of gas so that Amy would help her get gas and retrieve the car.

MAMABEAR
05-06-2009, 06:13 PM
No way in the world if I was guilty of murdering someone would I take the car with the decomposition smell to get it detailed. That's a smell that is "distinct" and the person who would be detailing the car could possibly become suspicious and notify the police.

(KC tried to say it was the smell of an animal, but human decomposition is "distinctly different" from that of an animal).

She wanted to get rid of the car because of the smell, and I'm thinking that she also changed clothes somewhere too before getting into TL's car. Otherwise, she too would have been "reeking." (Probably was the clothes that CA found and washed). Seems she left everything - that smell will also permeate everything.

I think somebody picked her up after she dropped the car and took her home. Member she had gros. from rents house? Didn't she take a shower at JG's. MAybe at home---anyway when Toni picked her up she wasn't inside the car.

AZlawyer
05-06-2009, 06:14 PM
True, but I think she went back to the car because GA/CA told her to because since nobody stole the car so they had to get it off that lot before it was towed or the cops might smell it. Thats why they needed to trap Amy into gittin her prints there. Since nobody stole it they still needed them prints. But KC and Amy got there to late. She didn't tell her rents cuz she can't do anythang right and she didn't want them holler at her. Well, at this point I really don't think CA knew about it yet.

I don't think Amy went with her, though. Amy had to work and KC didn't head in that direction until Amy was gone.

ETA: And then right about the time she got to Amscot, KC called a friend of hers who happened to work for Amscot (Stephanie K/ "Special K")--maybe to say, "dude, where's my car?"

jandkmom
05-06-2009, 06:15 PM
Hi, I'm just going by the transcript of the deposition of Cynthia S. The person who called the towing company. You can read it here:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Sanchez,%20Catherine0724.pdf

The car was towed June 30th. The July date is the date of the deposition.

Intermezzo
05-06-2009, 06:17 PM
Yes, Casey told Tony that the car had broken down. She knew that if she told him that she ran out of gas, he could have just offered to go and put gas in it. She said that her father picked the car up and was having it worked on, Tony said she went into detail about this...I believe. This will be another piece of evidence for the state...she told Tony it broke down when the truth is she drove it until the gas was on empty.

I just am not 100% on the Pontiac being out of gas, but since GA put gas in it there is prolly now way of being certain, other than we know the Gas gauge did work properly.
She kept going back to her parents home, if they kept money in the home for emergencies, she could have been taking a bit here and there and of course there was Caylee's piggy bank, so she could have put gas in the car, even $10 or $20 worth. Just a theory.
Then there's the location of where she ran out of gas. She just happens to run out of gas at the intersection of SR50/Colonial and Goldenrod (a very busy intersection and if I remember was under road construction at that time as most of Colonial Rd was) and 2 guys (who have yet to materialize) help, NOT PUSH into the closest parking spot but BACKED the car into a spot next to a dumpster. And of course she left her purse but didn't forget to take the frozen food for TL and his roommates.
I have driven by the Amscot there are gas stations in the immediate area.
Any way just my little ole opinione :)

natsound
05-06-2009, 06:26 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps Tony knows more than he's telling?

Oh no, I don't think so. I tried to find the interview but couldn't find it.. and I'm slammed at work... if anyone else can post a link to it, I'd appreciate it! If not, I'll search more tomorrow. This is an interview where he's riding around in a car with investigators, showing exactly where he picked her up after she ran out of gas.

MAMABEAR
05-06-2009, 06:29 PM
That's another good point. If she really wanted the car back. Why didn't she call Amscot to find out if it was towed? Or why didn't she leave a note on the windshield to let them know she ran out of gas and would be back to retrieve it?

She was a single mom who had to get back and forth to work and get her baby to daycare! She needed that car!

Mama Bear, I believe you are so right about her trying to get either Amy or Jesse to drive that car to throw the scent (pun intended) off her.

Thanks-------but didn't she in fact call somebody at Amscot. Seems like i member that from the phone #s released.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 06:32 PM
It is obvious girl friend wanted that car off her hands because it was smelling so bad. She told Amy it was smelling so bad because she ran over a squirrel. And who drives around with a trash bag full of garbage in their car? More smelly stuff to cover up the smell of decomposition?

I take that back about perhaps Tony knowing more than he is telling. The reason being that in some countries where they don't embalm dead bodies they leave them out for people to observe for a couple of days. I think you have to have the body in the ground by day three though. That's part of the Jewish custom too. (Don't quote me on that but, I think in an Orthodox Jewish family the body has to be buried by day three. I've been to an Orthodox Jewish funeral/wake and I could not smell the body. It must have been the same night or the next day after the person died.

steadychick
05-06-2009, 06:37 PM
OK, so maybe the plan was to NOT get the car back UNTIL Tony had left for New York (June 30, I think), so KC could use his car while he was gone, but then to get the car back after he left so she could figure out what to do with the smell/evidence.

She had to tell Tony the car broke down so he wouldn't just go put gas in it and thwart her plan....but she told Amy she just ran out of gas so that Amy would help her get gas and retrieve the car.

Amy also eventually came to believe the car was being repaired. That is why she allowed KC to borrow her car when she was in PR. See page 15-16 of AH interview -- http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2447600/Casey-Anthony-Amy-Huizenga-Interview-July-16-Released-Nov-06-08 KC knew at that point that the car was gone, but did not make any effort to find out where it was or if it was stolen.

Again, Amy bought her a gas can, but her interview leads me to believe this was Amy's idea. Amy gave the can to KC, but there is no indication what, if anything, KC did with it.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 06:38 PM
Thanks-------but didn't she in fact call somebody at Amscot. Seems like i member that from the phone #s released.
:doh: You're right. I've got to research better. Another poster said she called Stephanie K who works at Amscot to perhaps find out what happened to her car. Do we have a transcript of an interview by LE with Stephanie K?

IMO once the car was towed. She definitely didn't want it. She was probably sweating bullets afraid that someone would notice that smell.

:eek: Hey! Maybe that explains the partying. She knew the jig was up and was gonna party like its 1999!

MAMABEAR
05-06-2009, 06:42 PM
Oh no, I don't think so. I tried to find the interview but couldn't find it.. and I'm slammed at work... if anyone else can post a link to it, I'd appreciate it! If not, I'll search more tomorrow. This is an interview where he's riding around in a car with investigators, showing exactly where he picked her up after she ran out of gas.

I member that--was audio. Him and 2 cops and it was close to the A's house. The cops thought that was when she dumped Caylee. Poot---maybe a W/Ser not cops thought that was when she dumped Caylee.

travelgal
05-06-2009, 06:44 PM
The facts show that KC did not abandon the car. She set about talking Amy into buying a gas can (described in latest documents). Amy and KC actually bought the can on 30th July but were just too late to retrieve the car before it was towed from Amscot. KC DID NOT abandon the car because she tried to retrieve it?

You are correct, as usual HP! I think KC was totally shocked to find the car gone from Amscot's lot. While the idea of her leaving the car for someone to steal is interesting....I just do not think KC could plan that action all the way through. I do agree with Leonard P., et al, that she doesn't plan anything beyond 10 minutes. She is just not that smart.

Also, I want to say it is nice to see you back in the threads, HP. Have you been on holiday? :wave:

steadychick
05-06-2009, 06:44 PM
I don't think Amy went with her, though. Amy had to work and KC didn't head in that direction until Amy was gone.

ETA: And then right about the time she got to Amscot, KC called a friend of hers who happened to work for Amscot (Stephanie K/ "Special K")--maybe to say, "dude, where's my car?"

If I'm not mistaken, I don't think Stephanie K works at the Amscot where the car was left. Was there, in fact, a call made to SK during this time frame?

whisperOFwings
05-06-2009, 06:46 PM
That's another good point. If she really wanted the car back. Why didn't she call Amscot to find out if it was towed? Or why didn't she leave a note on the windshield to let them know she ran out of gas and would be back to retrieve it?

She was a single mom who had to get back and forth to work and get her baby to daycare! She needed that car!

Mama Bear, I believe you are so right about her trying to get either Amy or Jesse to drive that car to throw the scent (pun intended) off her.

Bolded by me,
hahahahahahahahahahahaha, man, that's funny!!!:blowkiss:

steadychick
05-06-2009, 06:50 PM
Yes, Casey told Tony that the car had broken down. She knew that if she told him that she ran out of gas, he could have just offered to go and put gas in it. She said that her father picked the car up and was having it worked on, Tony said she went into detail about this...I believe. This will be another piece of evidence for the state...she told Tony it broke down when the truth is she drove it until the gas was on empty.

You're right! There was some info that came out just recently indicating cell phone pings show that KC drove around and around before the car was left at Amscot

AZlawyer
05-06-2009, 06:51 PM
If I'm not mistaken, I don't think Stephanie K works at the Amscot where the car was left. Was there, in fact, a call made to SK during this time frame?

There was a call to SK (unanswered), and a call back from SK much later that night.

But last time we were looking at this subject, we couldn't figure out which Amscot SK worked for or if she started working there shortly before or shortly after Casey's arrest. Do you have some information about her working for a different Amscot?

travelgal
05-06-2009, 06:52 PM
Long time lurker..First time I felt I could contribute a good decent thought. The jailhouse interview it is asked by CA"why didn't she come back for the car?" Her reply was "I don't know mom". Then it is left alone. She IMO is telling them that she abandoned that car because Z told her to,it was part of the script. She had to lie to everyone else because she was in fear for their lives.,or whatever she tells them. Yeah? May be I am way off...just had to jump in somewhere and thought this may be good. Of course we all get it, but this may be what they are using.

WELCOME, AMYMB, great to have you join us! I joined about the same time you did and I still feel like a newbie most of the time. So happy to have you here!:blowkiss:

eddeva
05-06-2009, 06:59 PM
There was a call to SK (unanswered), and a call back from SK much later that night.

But last time we were looking at this subject, we couldn't figure out which Amscot SK worked for or if she started working there shortly before or shortly after Casey's arrest. Do you have some information about her working for a different Amscot?


fwiw, towards the end of rev grund's interview he mentions seeing stephanie at the vigil wearing an amscot T-shirt and yuri points out that while she does work for amscot, it's not the amscot where the car was left.

debbie0604
05-06-2009, 07:00 PM
I think somebody picked her up after she dropped the car and took her home. Member she had gros. from rents house? Didn't she take a shower at JG's. MAybe at home---anyway when Toni picked her up she wasn't inside the car.
You are right! I had forgotten that! She had taken a shower at JG's...I think that's what he said. She must have gone by her house afterwards for the frozen foods. I still can't imagine why she would want that car...it would take "special detailing" to get rid of that smell and someone at the detail shop would be asking questions and would be suspicious.

I don't know...:banghead: I can't figure her out!! I can honestly say that I have never known anyone like her before... she's hard to figure.

AZlawyer
05-06-2009, 07:02 PM
fwiw, towards the end of rev grund's interview he mentions seeing stephanie at the vigil wearing an amscot T-shirt and yuri points out that while she does work for amscot, it's not the amscot where the car was left.

Thanks!

brownflower
05-06-2009, 07:10 PM
You are right! I had forgotten that! She had taken a shower at JG's...I think that's what he said. She must have gone by her house afterwards for the frozen foods. I still can't imagine why she would want that car...it would take "special detailing" to get rid of that smell and someone at the detail shop would be asking questions and would be suspicious.

I don't know...:banghead: I can't figure her out!! I can honestly say that I have never known anyone like her before... she's hard to figure.

I'm telling you girlfriend didn't want that car. I don't care what nobody say! She wanted to get rid of that car because of the stench. If she had wanted that car, she would have had it back from the tow yard.

A simple note on the windshield, a quick call to Amscot would have saved her car from being towed.

She knows how to lie, cheat and steal to get what she wants. She would have found a way to get that car back.

Again, she had 700 plus dollars from Amy's checking account. More than enough money to get her car.

OT. Thanks for laughing at my jokes. This is such a tragic case. I have to laugh to keep from crying (LA and I have something in common I guess).:confused:

eddeva
05-06-2009, 07:16 PM
I think somebody picked her up after she dropped the car and took her home. Member she had gros. from rents house? Didn't she take a shower at JG's. MAybe at home---anyway when Toni picked her up she wasn't inside the car.


this is the part that puzzles me most. the amscot manager is adamant that the car was already abandoned there when he arrived that morning, yet it would be hours until she calls for help, at which point tony arrives to rescue casey who was standing around carrying a bag of groceries which seem to have come from the anthony house and the ice-pops were even still frozen. who was driving miss casey?

brownflower
05-06-2009, 07:21 PM
this is the part that puzzles me most. the amscot manager is adamant that the car was already abandoned there when he arrived that morning, yet it would be hours until she calls for help, at which point tony arrives to rescue casey who was standing around carrying a bag of groceries which seem to have come from the anthony house and the ice-pops were even still frozen. who was driving miss casey?
Do any of her friends live near there? Zanieda perhaps?

kaRN
05-06-2009, 07:22 PM
I don't think there ever was any pizza. It was just another of Casey's lies - hoping her mother would believe this was the reason for the smell.

The empty pizza boxes are part of the evidence. There are many photos of them.

Moe
05-06-2009, 07:31 PM
Do any of her friends live near there? Zanieda perhaps?
How far is Amscot from the house, could she have walked?

eddeva
05-06-2009, 07:35 PM
Do any of her friends live near there? Zanieda perhaps?



i'm not aware of anyone in particular living unusually close to the amscot (would be interesting to know) but then all casey's friends live within her comfort zone which is all of about about 4sq yards so it's not as if anyone is ever far away. casey doesn't know zenaida, never did.

eddeva
05-06-2009, 07:38 PM
How far is Amscot from the house, could she have walked?


i don't think the ice-pops would still have been frozen.

does anyone have a scale map of the area regularly traversed by casey or a good idea of the distances involved? it strikes me that there's likely one already been posted somewhere.

NocturnalLady
05-06-2009, 08:05 PM
this is the part that puzzles me most. the amscot manager is adamant that the car was already abandoned there when he arrived that morning, yet it would be hours until she calls for help, at which point tony arrives to rescue casey who was standing around carrying a bag of groceries which seem to have come from the anthony house and the ice-pops were even still frozen. who was driving miss casey?


Bold by me.

That's what I want to know too!

Bittiness39
05-06-2009, 08:15 PM
As Hercule Poirot wisely points out, KC wouldn't have gone with AH with the gas can she talked AH into buying for the Pontiac if she indeed abandoned it. Maybe on that particular day that she ran out of gas she was headed back to Tony's or another pal's place from her parents home and the car had nothing left to give. I often wondered why she would leave the car in a place on her mother's likely route to work in Winter Park. Cindy very likely could have seen the car well before that time. ITA with other posters who say while she may have some smarts she certainly isn't that smart. And while still others have made mention of her wild crowd of friends apparently, other than KC, they were all occupied during the day with jobs and school. Certainly, they didn't have all day to cart her around. Hence, why she needed the car. More than ever it appears as though she was winging it. She stayed close to home the whole time Caylee disappeared from this world. Was she either getting up the "courage" to kill the rest of her family OR was she simply in denial about the fact that the GP's were just going to give up on trying to see or to talk to Caylee? I think it is the first one. Sure, she needed the vehicle to get around...but if I had committed what most of us believe she had...or even if less likely what happened was an accident, I would want to get out of Orlando as fast as I could. Change my name, change my hair, move out of the state. Ditch my cell phone. Open up a pre-paid card service...not flitting around town where she was nearly caught partying by her brother who was hot on her tail. Granted, she is not all that bright...but surely she had something larger in mind than just gas canning her way around Orlando for the next decade. The car being towed probably really scared the daylights out of her. Which, if you had not done anything wrong and/or were not planning anything nefarious for your parents, why not at least approach Lee with the bogus kidnapping story and beg for help...again...not very well thought out unless the car once towed destroyed the second part of her plan, offing her parents and gaining the house. The nanny took Caylee + offed my parents = dangerous people. I get the house. I get the insurance money. I can continue living this way forever.

travelgal
05-06-2009, 08:23 PM
You are right! I had forgotten that! She had taken a shower at JG's...I think that's what he said. She must have gone by her house afterwards for the frozen foods. I still can't imagine why she would want that car...it would take "special detailing" to get rid of that smell and someone at the detail shop would be asking questions and would be suspicious.

I don't know...:banghead: I can't figure her out!! I can honestly say that I have never known anyone like her before... she's hard to figure.

Hey Mamabear & Debbie0604:

Do you know the date that she stopped by JG's for the shower? I can't find the link right now but I seem to remember that was an entirely different day. I could be totally off base here since my memory plays tricks on me sometimes. I think that "shower day" occurred after Tony was gone and she was floating from place to place. Didn't she tell Jesse that she couldn't get in Tony's apt?? I stand corrected if I am wrong. Thanks! :blowkiss:

brownflower
05-06-2009, 08:30 PM
IMO she dumped the car because she did not try to get it from the tow yard. Perhaps she was truly trying to retrieve it from Amscot. But, once that car was off the Amscot lot she did not try to get it. And I am so sorry, common sense tells you a person who is trying to prevent their car from being towed will talk to the business owners of the lot where the car is stalled. So, iif t took her two or three days to get gas to the car, she could let the owner know the status of her plight and try to get the car going asap.

That's what a normal sane rational person would do. It's happened to me people. Something happened to my car and I had to leave it in a parking lot. I told the owners and they said ok. They gave me a time limit as to when the car had to be towed. I got their card and kept them abreast of the situation. As soon as I could I got the car towed to a garage. I thanked the owner for allowing me to leave my car there. I think the car was only there a day or two but, I kept in touch with that business owner until my car was out of that lot.

There are too many lies surrounding this car coming from Casey, the car ran out of gas, the gas gauge is broken, the car had mechanical problems, I hit a squirrel with the car and its stinking up the car. I left pizza in the car. My father will pick up the car... on and on the with the lies about the car.

Where there is smoke there is fire. IMO the things that could get Casey in trouble are the things she lies about the most.

IMO

Intermezzo
05-06-2009, 08:30 PM
How far is Amscot from the house, could she have walked?

About 7-8 miles away I believe.

songline
05-06-2009, 08:32 PM
Do any of her friends live near there? Zanieda perhaps?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Rumpole
05-06-2009, 08:37 PM
IMO she dumped the car because she did not try to get it from the tow yard. Perhaps she was truly trying to retrieve it from Amscot. But, once that car was off the Amscot lot she did not try to get it. And I am so sorry, common sense tells you a person who is trying to prevent their car from being towed will talk to the business owners of the lot where the car is stalled. So, iif t took her two or three days to get gas to the car, she could let the owner know the status of her plight and try to get the car going asap.

That's what a normal sane rational person would do. It's happened to me people. Something happened to my car and I had to leave it in a parking lot. I told the owners and they said ok. They gave me a time limit as to when the car had to be towed. I got their card and kept them abreast of the situation. As soon as I could I got the car towed to a garage. I thanked the owner for allowing me to leave my car there. I think the car was only there a day or two but, I kept in touch with that business owner until my car was out of that lot.

There are too many lies surrounding this car coming from Casey, the car ran out of gas, the gas gauge is broken, the car had mechanical problems, I hit a squirrel with the car and its stinking up the car. I left pizza in the car. My father will pick up the car... on and on the with the lies about the car.

Where there is smoke there is fire. IMO the things that could get Casey in trouble are the things she lies about the most.

IMO
KC was flat broke.

No Money to pay towing fee.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 08:39 PM
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Intermezzo
05-06-2009, 08:40 PM
Hey Mamabear & Debbie0604:

Do you know the date that she stopped by JG's for the shower? I can't find the link right now but I seem to remember that was an entirely different day. I could be totally off base here since my memory plays tricks on me sometimes. I think that "shower day" occurred after Tony was gone and she was floating from place to place. Didn't she tell Jesse that she couldn't get in Tony's apt?? I stand corrected if I am wrong. Thanks! :blowkiss:

Popping in to answer :)I think it was July 1st but I will go and double check.:)
Yes, I believe TL was in NY at this time.
B right back.......

Yup, here is the link to July 1 case calendar
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-7-1&c=4

brownflower
05-06-2009, 08:41 PM
KC was flat broke.

No Money to pay towing fee.

All the more reason to let the owners of Amscot know that her car ran out of gas and please don't tow my car until I can get someone to get me some gas.

And again, on July 7 she had plenty of money. She cashed an Amy check at Target and she also withdrew money from the bank $250.

Plenty of money to get the car if she wanted it.

She didn't want the car.

Strange, she has money for a cell phone but, she doesn't have money for gas. She had free time on her hands with no baby to look after. She could have gone out and :eek: gotten a job so that she could pay to get the car back.

Bittiness39
05-06-2009, 08:43 PM
I just don't think she planned on leaving her car behind. But going with her egocentric narcissistic thinking...she would rather raid Target with AH's stolen money than use $20 or so for the gas for the car. She is like your typical grifter...only with a sociopathic twist and horrific sense of entitlement. If she had abandoned the car at the airport and then split town I would buy the abandonment...but yet she stays close to home...I don't think most posters dispute at this point that her parents and Lee were ACTIVELY trying to find her and Caylee...and the car she used to go back and forth from her home...likely to change...take a shower...get items...hide out when she couldn't find pals to crash with during the day but when her parents were gone...she leaves the car close to home on what was a very likely route for Cindy to her work in Winter Park. My guess is she had bummed from way too many people and AH was the one that she could get to buy a gas can for her. She couldn't very well get it from Tony. According to what I have read, she told Tony her dad would pick up the car. Couldn't get it from any of Tony's friends. Anyone else would likely ask too many questions. Who better to ask than AH whom she promised to share her parent's home with once it became hers? If she had fled town after the car was left at the Amscot...I would have bet my money on the fact that it was intentionally abandoned. So if I believe that the car was not abandoned as HP pointed out the evidence shows...then she is either totally stupid and winging it, intending to gas can her way through life for however long or she was getting up the "courage" to kill her parents...I feel like of the two the later is the most likely. Just my pitiful attempt at deductive reasoning. Probably why I took the LSAT twice. I over think stuff. But hey, graduated from law school in 2000 though.

songline
05-06-2009, 08:44 PM
As Hercule Poirot wisely points out, KC wouldn't have gone with AH with the gas can she talked AH into buying for the Pontiac if she indeed abandoned it. Maybe on that particular day that she ran out of gas she was headed back to Tony's or another pal's place from her parents home and the car had nothing left to give. I often wondered why she would leave the car in a place on her mother's likely route to work in Winter Park. Cindy very likely could have seen the car well before that time. ITA with other posters who say while she may have some smarts she certainly isn't that smart. And while still others have made mention of her wild crowd of friends apparently, other than KC, they were all occupied during the day with jobs and school. Certainly, they didn't have all day to cart her around. Hence, why she needed the car. More than ever it appears as though she was winging it. She stayed close to home the whole time Caylee disappeared from this world. Was she either getting up the "courage" to kill the rest of her family OR was she simply in denial about the fact that the GP's were just going to give up on trying to see or to talk to Caylee? I think it is the first one. Sure, she needed the vehicle to get around...but if I had committed what most of us believe she had...or even if less likely what happened was an accident, I would want to get out of Orlando as fast as I could. Change my name, change my hair, move out of the state. Ditch my cell phone. Open up a pre-paid card service...not flitting around town where she was nearly caught partying by her brother who was hot on her tail. Granted, she is not all that bright...but surely she had something larger in mind than just gas canning her way around Orlando for the next decade. The car being towed probably really scared the daylights out of her. Which, if you had not done anything wrong and/or were not planning anything nefarious for your parents, why not at least approach Lee with the bogus kidnapping story and beg for help...again...not very well thought out unless the car once towed destroyed the second part of her plan, offing her parents and gaining the house. The nanny took Caylee + offed my parents = dangerous people. I get the house. I get the insurance money. I can continue living this way forever.

I really find it hard to believe that she is so smart.
A lier, YES, Disturbed YES. Corrupt YES,
SMART - :nono::nono::nono::nono:
It takes someone heartless and cold to murder but methodical in their plan.
OR it would be solved by now. she is only 23 and it is no SLAM DUNK.
It is stumping LE and making the city money.
and Opening investigations on other people, rightfully so.

THERE IS MORE HERE THEN MEETS THE EYE

brownflower
05-06-2009, 08:55 PM
I really find it hard to believe that she is so smart.
A lier, YES, Disturbed YES. Corrupt YES,
SMART - :nono::nono::nono::nono:
It takes someone heartless and cold to murder but methodical in their plan.
OR it would be solved by now. she is only 23 and it is no SLAM DUNK.
It is stumping LE and making the city money.
and Opening investigations on other people, rightfully so.

THERE IS MORE HERE THEN MEETS THE EYE
Casey is not that dumb. She didn't let the LE trick her into confessing to a crime that she did not commit.

travelgal
05-06-2009, 08:56 PM
Popping in to answer :)I think it was July 1st but I will go and double check.:)
Yes, I believe TL was in NY at this time.
B right back.......

Yup, here is the link to July 1 case calendar
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-7-1&c=4

Thank you so much, Intermezzo. :blowkiss:

I don't believe the shower at JG's and Tony's picking KC up at Amscot with the groceries are related.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 09:01 PM
:seeya:Good night good people. Thank you for a very stimulating discussion. I learned a lot.:blowkiss:

kageykaren
05-06-2009, 09:12 PM
I just don't think she planned on leaving her car behind. But going with her egocentric narcissistic thinking...she would rather raid Target with AH's stolen money than use $20 or so for the gas for the car. She is like your typical grifter...only with a sociopathic twist and horrific sense of entitlement. If she had abandoned the car at the airport and then split town I would buy the abandonment...but yet she stays close to home...I don't think most posters dispute at this point that her parents and Lee were ACTIVELY trying to find her and Caylee...and the car she used to go back and forth from her home...likely to change...take a shower...get items...hide out when she couldn't find pals to crash with during the day but when her parents were gone...she leaves the car close to home on what was a very likely route for Cindy to her work in Winter Park. My guess is she had bummed from way too many people and AH was the one that she could get to buy a gas can for her. She couldn't very well get it from Tony. According to what I have read, she told Tony her dad would pick up the car. Couldn't get it from any of Tony's friends. Anyone else would likely ask too many questions. Who better to ask than AH whom she promised to share her parent's home with once it became hers? If she had fled town after the car was left at the Amscot...I would have bet my money on the fact that it was intentionally abandoned. So if I believe that the car was not abandoned as HP pointed out the evidence shows...then she is either totally stupid and winging it, intending to gas can her way through life for however long or she was getting up the "courage" to kill her parents...I feel like of the two the later is the most likely. Just my pitiful attempt at deductive reasoning. Probably why I took the LSAT twice. I over think stuff. But hey, graduated from law school in 2000 though.Good to see you back Ittybitty, Sometimes when I'm sluething all these wacky facts to date and thinking about some sinister behavior with all the characters involved in this case I feel as if I might be over thinking some of the possible darker sides of this case, I think I'm putting way too much into this and it is as simple as you suggested. I always keep the fact in mind that most mothers who kill put the child close to home. Alot of things say simple simple simple for KC. She shares her mothers pathological determined mind set.

eddeva
05-06-2009, 09:23 PM
I really find it hard to believe that she is so smart.
A lier, YES, Disturbed YES. Corrupt YES,
SMART - :nono::nono::nono::nono:
It takes someone heartless and cold to murder but methodical in their plan.
OR it would be solved by now. she is only 23 and it is no SLAM DUNK.
It is stumping LE and making the city money.
and Opening investigations on other people, rightfully so.

THERE IS MORE HERE THEN MEETS THE EYE


i don't know what has provoked the seemingly popular idea that great thought and planning along w/ outside help was necessary in order to carry out the murder and disposal of caylee anthony.
casey killed a 2yr old child who couldn't possibly defend themselves (easy) then dumped the body round the corner (easy) neither of these acts required intelligence or help.
i'll admit that LE are stumped regarding the cause of death. the first time kronk contacted them they sent an idiot out and then the body was submerged for months leaving them only skeletal remains to work w/. that's not the result of a methodical plan; that's the result of shoddy work and really bad weather.

jjgram
05-06-2009, 09:29 PM
i don't think the ice-pops would still have been frozen.

does anyone have a scale map of the area regularly traversed by casey or a good idea of the distances involved? it strikes me that there's likely one already been posted somewhere.

:waitasec:

RE: ice pops... some are NOT frozen...just LIQUID until you take
them

home and then FREEZE them....

just say'n !:blowkiss:

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

Moe
05-06-2009, 09:36 PM
About 7-8 miles away I believe.
Thanks!

Rumpole
05-06-2009, 09:39 PM
:waitasec:

RE: ice pops... some are NOT frozen...just LIQUID until you take
them

home and then FREEZE them....

just say'n !:blowkiss:

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

Good point.:aktion033::angel:

Is there a description of what groceries etc KC had?


:cat:

JWG
05-06-2009, 09:39 PM
In an attempt to dispel a little bit of cross-day confusion in some recent posts - which is easy to do because I do it all the time in my day job, and not just on the boards :banghead: - I will summarize what we have determined over the past few months based on the pings and texts.

The pings on June 27 support her making a quick trip down to mom 'n pops to pick up that night's pre-Fusian dinner and desert, then heading back up to Tony's. Along the way she runs out of gas and ditches the car at the Amscot. Pings do not support her driving around in circles trying to run out of gas. She literally was on a bee-line to Tony's and her text to Amy and calls for a ride all fall in line with a straight drive up to the boyfriend's.

Bond posted a nice analysis of how far KC would be able to drive after filling up on stolen gas from the shed on the 24th, after she had run out that day. Using pings from the 24th - 27th to determine driving patterns and then using mapping software to collect miles driven, Bond was able to show that running out of gas and ditching the car at the Amscot was not a planned event. She really did just run out.

Now she may have planned to avoid using her car to take Tony to the airport and may have already come up with a reason, but running out of gas provided her with a whole nother plausible angle to use. :idea: All she had to do was leave the car at the Amscot until the 30th. :whistle:

Pings support KC and Amy heading out on the 30th to buy a gas can with Amy's money. LE has that gas can. Pings support them driving to the location of the Amscot, and then circling back to Amy's after discovering the car was not there. KC had every intention of getting that car back. However, once it had disappeared there is no evidence she ever tried to locate its whereabouts. :bang:

As for the shower at JG's, that happened on July 1 after spending much of the night at Fusian followed by some quiet time at Andy F.'s.

Rumpole
05-06-2009, 09:51 PM
In an attempt to dispel a little bit of cross-day confusion in some recent posts - which is easy to do because I do it all the time in my day job, and not just on the boards :banghead: - I will summarize what we have determined over the past few months based on the pings and texts.

The pings on June 27 support her making a quick trip down to mom 'n pops to pick up that night's pre-Fusian dinner and desert, then heading back up to Tony's. Along the way she runs out of gas and ditches the car at the Amscot. Pings do not support her driving around in circles trying to run out of gas. She literally was on a bee-line to Tony's and her text to Amy and calls for a ride all fall in line with a straight drive up to the boyfriend's.

Bond posted a nice analysis of how far KC would be able to drive after filling up on stolen gas from the shed on the 24th, after she had run out that day. Using pings from the 24th - 27th to determine driving patterns and then using mapping software to collect miles driven, Bond was able to show that running out of gas and ditching the car at the Amscot was not a planned event. She really did just run out.

Now she may have planned to avoid using her car to take Tony to the airport and may have already come up with a reason, but running out of gas provided her with a whole nother plausible angle to use. :idea: All she had to do was leave the car at the Amscot until the 30th. :whistle:

Pings support KC and Amy heading out on the 30th to buy a gas can with Amy's money. LE has that gas can. Pings support them driving to the location of the Amscot, and then circling back to Amy's after discovering the car was not there. KC had every intention of getting that car back. However, once it had disappeared there is no evidence she ever tried to locate its whereabouts. :bang:

As for the shower at JG's, that happened on July 1 after spending much of the night at Fusian followed by some quiet time at Andy F.'s.
Thanks.
I have been marking time here. Nice to get some facts.

Can you also reconcile the report that Amscot manager saw the car earlier? When he arrived for work?

Mentioned most recently in post above: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3706644&postcount=311

mysteriew
05-06-2009, 10:01 PM
You are correct, as usual HP! I think KC was totally shocked to find the car gone from Amscot's lot. While the idea of her leaving the car for someone to steal is interesting....I just do not think KC could plan that action all the way through. I do agree with Leonard P., et al, that she doesn't plan anything beyond 10 minutes. She is just not that smart.

Also, I want to say it is nice to see you back in the threads, HP. Have you been on holiday? :wave:

The only thing that makes me think that KC intended to ditch the car (at least initially) is because the car stunk! She didn't grab cleaning supplies from Mom's and spend much time cleaning it. She didn't go to a car wash and spray it out from front to back. She didn't pour kitty litter or baking soda to the stain in an attempt to absorb the odor. She added trash to the car and carried gas maybe to help explain the odor. She just didn't do a whole lot to it, but she dumped it. So it could have been just plain laziness, or it could have been part of the plan.

I do think she planned on dumping it. Maybe she later found it inconvenient and wanted to go back to pick it up. Or maybe she just intended to report it stolen that day. After all if she planned to report it stolen, that would need to be set up. Like planning that she ran out of gas, two guys helped her push it into Amscot, when she got back to Amscot with the gas (after finding cans, and a ride back) the car was gone, missing, stolen.

nyvictoria
05-06-2009, 10:01 PM
i don't know what has provoked the seemingly popular idea that great thought and planning along w/ outside help was necessary in order to carry out the murder and disposal of caylee anthony.
casey killed a 2yr old child who couldn't possibly defend themselves (easy) then dumped the body round the corner (easy) neither of these acts required intelligence or help.
i'll admit that LE are stumped regarding the cause of death. the first time kronk contacted them they sent an idiot out and then the body was submerged for months leaving them only skeletal remains to work w/. that's not the result of a methodical plan; that's the result of shoddy work and really bad weather.

ITA with you eddeva! I think Cindy and George (and probably Lee) are guilty of obstruction, tampering with evidence and spoon-feeding Casey pieces of her "script" but I don't believe they disposed of or moved Caylee's body or were, in any direct way, involved in her murder. Nor was anyone else.

Casey got "lucky", if you want to call the senseless murder of a defenseless child luck :furious:

JWG
05-06-2009, 10:06 PM
Thanks.
I have been marking time here. Nice to get some facts.

Can you also reconcile the report that Amscot worker saw the car earlier? When he arrived for work?

I have not read any of the Amscot employee interviews. All I can say is, like so many witnesses to this case, that person's memory was fuzzy after several weeks. Perhaps this person remembered the time of day incorrectly, or perhaps it was Saturday they remembered rather than Friday.

Not surprising. I believe in general LE takes eyewitness accounts with some number of salt grains.

BondJamesBond
05-06-2009, 10:20 PM
Months ago it was speculated that Casey abandoned the Pontiac @ Amscot 6/27 so she wouldn't be faced with taking Tony to the airport 6/30AM w/ the smell of decomp increasingly permeating her car...to further ensure she'd get the use of Tony's Jeep for the week.

Well...I bought it. I thought Casey had actually pulled something off that required a little planning & forethought.

Now...I've revisited the situation armed w/ a little more information...and I hafta conclude that Casey actually did run outta gas. :doh:

It requires a few working assumptions, but, here's how we get there...

On 6/23 Casey ran outta gas. We know exactly where AND, as a result of this incident from Tony's statement, we now know exactly what route Casey drove when she traveled between G&C's and Tony's. We know from Casey's pings the major trips she took, most likely in the Pontiac between 6/23 and 6/27. While Casey may have made a short trip or two from Tony's apt. to, say, Subway, for example, it doesn't appear she ventured too far...so, we've got decent information to work from here too.


6/23 after filling up, Casey & Tony returned to his apt. (Tony's statement)
6/24 Casey returned to G&C's (for the now famous scene) for 1 roundtrip (pings support)
6/25 Casey hung @ Tony's (pings)
6/26 Casey hung @ Tony's (pings)
6/27 Casey returned to G&C's and almost made it back to Tony's, calling for help @ 11:47AM. (pings support)


The exact total mileage of these trips is 47.2 miles.

From G&C's interview on Greta (http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=2963763&referralPlaylistId=search|cindy%20anthony) we know the size of the two gas cans Casey used were a 2.5gallon and a 1.25 gallon (the volumes aren't listed on the police report). We prolly don't want to assume these were 100% full, and we can play with this a little to see the effect later.

I found 5 different models of the 1998 Pontiac Sunfire w/ varying specs, however, the estimate mpg for all ranged +/- 1 mpg for city & highway stats. We'll use 20mpg as the most-common cited city mileage.

Finally, I found at least one reference for a similarly sized engine that indicated it burned 0.18 gallons/hr @ idle. This isn't a perfect reference, but, is actually a little conservative.

From the pings we can see that Casey approached Amscot, on the move, @ 11:40AM. She placed her distress call to Tony @ 11:47AM. We can quickly conclude that 7 minutes was not sufficient time to run out any significant volume of gas whatsoever...@ a rate even 2x the 0.18gallon/hr listed above.

...so how does that match up w/ what we know about the rest of the scene.

If we just do the straight math and not make any allowances for Casey running the AC, driving heavy footed as she likely sped away outta G&C's driveway 6/24, etc....just straight 20mpg...for 47.2 miles she would've consumed 2.4 gallons

If the 2 gas cans had been a collective 63% full... (2.5 + 1.25) = 3.75 * 0.63 = 2.4 gallons => Casey would have run outta gas precisely @ Amscot.

If the cans had been, say, 75% full...@ 20mpg...Casey would've had 0.5 gallons left in the tank @ Amscot and would have had to idle for 2.5 hours to run the tank empty. One can arrive at similar combinations of 'empty' by simply decreasing the mpg & increasing the volume that one assumes was in the gas cans of course (e.g. 85% full cans and 15mpg also = empty precisely @ Amscot).

So....now...thinking about the consequences of not running out @ Amscot I'm thinking Casey woulda just begged off 6/30AM and told Tony she was "on Empty" if he'd asked her to take him to the airport...had she made it all the way to Tony's 6/27.

...and JWG responded to other questions earlier that are coming up again - although the original questions won't carry w/ the quote...so I'll recreate'em.

What about the Amscot surveilance tapes?


The police tried to get them but because more than two weeks had transpired they had already been taped over.

Was Casey abandoning the car?

No, she returned on June 30 late in the afternoon with a newly-purchased gas can bought at Target with Amy's credit card (Amy was with her and made the purchase for the mooch), but by the time she turned the corner where the Amscot is located, the car had already been towed.

Did Casey want someone to steal the car?

Locked, and KC had her keys.

Also reading the NG'ism that Casey drove "round & round" on 6/27AM before abandoning the car. That characterization of what happened is flatly....wrong. Casey's pings indicate she made a trip from Tony's apt. to G&C's and ran out on her way back to Tony's...no detours. No driving around. See the detailed mileage calculated in the post above that explains that she actually ran outta gas.

Also, FWIW. As HP referenced earlier, on the E-Pass thread, and also summarized on the 6/29 Ping thread, if you are interested, you can read the details that support that "the chase" George described to LE actually happened the morning of Sunday, 6/29...just before Casey's first text to Amy that day inquiring about her gas cans. Speculation that Casey was driving Tony's Jeep that morning and making an effort to get gas cans from G&C's again. Driving up to the house George spotted Casey before she could get the gas cans and the chase began. So, Casey went to Plan B=Amy.

IMHO, the available information supports:

Casey ran outta gas @ Amscot, she didn't abandon the car
Casey's texts to Amy in advance prepared Amy for the smell by giving excuses about an animal having been stuck under it
Casey didn't want Tony to investigate the smell, hence, she gave him a story that the car needed repair & George was taking care of it
Casey made attempts to secure gas and recover the car, clearly on 6/30, and very possibly on 6/29
Casey was lax about getting the gas can w/ Amy Monday and as a result, by the time she made it around to Amscot the car had been towed
At precisely the time Casey rounded the corner by Amscot, 4:53PM, and discovered the Pontiac was gone she called Stephanie, believed to be an Amscot employee, and left a vmail or spoke w/ Stephanie for 48seconds.


Other miscellaneous Q's I saw along the way on the thread today:

Casey took Tony to the airport in his Jeep the morning of Monday, 6/30.
Casey showered @ Jesse's 7/1, between 11AM-1PM


Hope that helps.

travelgal
05-06-2009, 10:27 PM
The only thing that makes me think that KC intended to ditch the car (at least initially) is because the car stunk! She didn't grab cleaning supplies from Mom's and spend much time cleaning it. She didn't go to a car wash and spray it out from front to back. She didn't pour kitty litter or baking soda to the stain in an attempt to absorb the odor. She added trash to the car and carried gas maybe to help explain the odor. She just didn't do a whole lot to it, but she dumped it. So it could have been just plain laziness, or it could have been part of the plan.

I do think she planned on dumping it. Maybe she later found it inconvenient and wanted to go back to pick it up. Or maybe she just intended to report it stolen that day. After all if she planned to report it stolen, that would need to be set up. Like planning that she ran out of gas, two guys helped her push it into Amscot, when she got back to Amscot with the gas (after finding cans, and a ride back) the car was gone, missing, stolen.

You may be right about KC wanting to dump the car - I won't totally disagree with that point. HOWEVER, I have a problem getting my mind around KC even thinking about using kitty litter to absorb the odor, using her mom's cleaning supplies, etc. She grew up in a home with "Tillie Tidyhouse" for a mom, so I feel like she never developed many domestic skills for fear of not doing it up to CA's standards. I doubt any of those items even crossed her mind. Driving through a car wash or spraying off the car in a self-serve wash is possible. Before anyone points out that KC "cleaned, cooked & did laundry" for "The Boys" (Tony & roomies) I imagine their standards were not nearly so high for her to achieve. From the trash, it looks like she made lots of queso dip and frozen skillet dinners. Back to the abandoned car, in KC's world, I am pretty sure she didn't think too much about it. Everything has pretty much gone her way or she has been rescued - so, her mantra - don't worry, be happy- was all she needed! I just can't believe she was very adept at planning anything except what to wear while dancing on the pole!! Respectfully submitted, TG

Rumpole
05-06-2009, 10:27 PM
*SNIP*

Also reading the NG'ism that Casey drove "round & round" on 6/27AM before abandoning the car. That characterization of what happened is flatly....wrong. Casey's pings indicate she made a trip from Tony's apt. to G&C's and ran out on her way back to Tony's...no detours. No driving around. See the detailed mileage calculated in the post above that explains that she actually ran outta gas.

*SNIP*


Again! Some facts!

So are you saying NG got it wrong?

BondJamesBond
05-06-2009, 10:30 PM
I have been marking time here. Nice to get some facts.

Facts?!? Why confuse things with facts, HP? Oh...bother. :rolleyes:


Can you also reconcile the report that Amscot manager saw the car earlier? When he arrived for work?*snipped*

IIRC, Vicky indicated she saw the Pontiac on the morning of 6/27 when she arrived for work. That timing is in conflict w/ Casey's travels the morning of 6/27, as Vicky arrives @ work typically ~7AM and the pings indicate Casey didn't show up there until ~11:45AM . Also, IIRC, Vicky called her district office (or similar) and they advised the policy was to wait 3-days before having the vehicle towed. This timing lead early speculation that the car had been left @ Amscot overnight 6/26 and/or that Casey had gotten a ride from someone else 6/27AM, etc.

IMHO, JWG captured it above...Vicky's memory was just a bit off regarding when she first observed the car. No biggie.

watcher9
05-06-2009, 10:30 PM
Do you think JB will try to say that Caylee accidentally died in the trunk of the Pontiac where KC put her after she was unable to find a babysitter in time for her hot date? KC normally put Caylee in the trunk late at night and got her out early in the morning while it was still cool but this time it was earlier in the afternoon when the temperature was still hot. The next morning when KC found Caylee and it was too late, she was too afraid to tell anyone, didn't know what to do, so she winged it as usual and ignored her dead baby.

BondJamesBond
05-06-2009, 10:39 PM
Again! Some facts!

So are you saying NG got it wrong?

Shocking isn't it? :rolleyes: Prolly a NG-first, eh?

Cutting & pasting from a spreadsheet...so, please forgive the formatting...still, if interested you can follow along:

Starting Point/ Ending Point/ Comments/ Distance (miles)/ Route
6/23 Anthony Lane/ Sutton Place Blvd/ Return to Tony's Apt. after refilling with gas cans/ 9.4/ Chickasaw to Curry Ford to Goldenrod to University
6/24 Sutton Place Blvd/ 4937 Hopespring Dr./ Trip to G&C's which included gas can drama/ 10.2/ University to Goldenrod to Casey-cut-thru to Chickasaw to Grandee to Hopespring
6/24 4937 Hopespring Dr./ Sutton Place Blvd/ Return to Tony's Apt. after gas can drama/ 10.2/ Reverse of the 'to' trip
6/27 Sutton Place Blvd/ 4937 Hopespring Dr./ Trip to G&C's/ 10.2/ University to Goldenrod to Casey-cut-thru to Chickasaw to Grandee to Hopespring
6/27 4937 Hopespring Dr./ Amscot/ Ended in Parking Lot of Amscot/ 7.2/ Reverse of the 'to' trip

Total = exactly 47.2 miles

This is calculated from precisely the spot that Casey ran outta gas on 6/23 to precisely the spot she ran outta gas on 6/27, owing to the excellent description provided in Tony L.'s interview of the 6/23 event, and the accounts of the car being towed from Amscot. It also includes using the exact 'short-cut' route to/from Tony's that Casey was prone to use as was revealed on the same interview w/ Tony. See the 6/23 Ping thread here (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3420624&postcount=28) if interested in the details (incl. the marked maps, and street level pics, etc., etc.)

Rumpole
05-06-2009, 10:41 PM
A more general consideration is:

IMO KC is unlikely to have abandoned the car because she did not have a snowball in Hell's chance of replacing it! No money.

Even her new "Party Friends" had jobs and school, so KC had to have some means of getting about during the day? If you believe in fairy tales, she needed a car to get to work?

JWG
05-06-2009, 10:53 PM
*snipped*

IMHO, JWG captured it above...Vicky's memory was just a bit off regarding when she first observed the car. No biggie.

A little OT example, but I think we can all relate.

If LE were to come to my door :cop: and ask if I saw the neighbor across the street digging in their front yard recently, I would say yes, in fact I saw two men digging as I was leaving mid-afternoon to go to a game. When? Maybe last week...but it could have been two weeks ago. I'm really not sure but I know it had to be last week or the week before.

Looking at my calendar, it had to be one of three possible days, but I am not sure. It was sunny out, so if I refer to weatherunderground, I eliminate one of the two days. Notice how I had to do research :sleuth: to first figure out there were three possible days and then do additional research to eliminate one of those days. I could not with any certainty tell you which of those two days - and they are six days apart.

Now the fun part. Could I describe what the second man looked like? Hmmmm...No. I might be inclined to say he was Hispanic because my neighbor is, but being honest with myself, I really don't know. I could not tell you his age either. All I know is that he looked male and would be too stocky to be a woman.

How about what they were wearing? Well, they were digging a hole so they must have been wearing jeans, beige work jackets, and boots...right? Well, I know they were not wearing suits or dresses, because that would have stood out. So they must have been wearing work clothes because they did not register. As to describing them though, I cannot.

Did I notice anything unusual, such as a garbage bag next to the hole they were digging? No. I glanced for maybe two seconds, long enough to wave and be on my way. :wave:

Back to the Amscot employee...I think she either mixed her days up, or simply recalled seeing a different white vehicle (any make or model and with or without the nose bra). Honest mis-association. :angel:

sua_sponte
05-06-2009, 10:54 PM
this is the part that puzzles me most. the amscot manager is adamant that the car was already abandoned there when he arrived that morning, yet it would be hours until she calls for help, at which point tony arrives to rescue casey who was standing around carrying a bag of groceries which seem to have come from the anthony house and the ice-pops were even still frozen. who was driving miss casey?

I'm starting to become a little skeptical that the groceries were from her parent's. How would Tony know whether freezer pops and chicken were in a grocery sack from her parents house vs. a grocery sack from a grocery store? The only evidence he gave for that conclusion was that they "looked" like they would be from her parents house. Also, if you look at that Amscot on Google, it shares a parking lot with a grocery store.

BondJamesBond
05-06-2009, 10:57 PM
A more general consideration is:

IMO KC is unlikely to have abandoned the car because she did not have a snowball in Hell's chance of replacing it! No money.

Even her new "Party Friends" had jobs and school, so KC had to have some means of getting about during the day? If you believe in fairy tales, she needed a car to get to work?

...and if you wanna say she was frugal you'd say she wanted to get her (or George's) money's worth outta the repairs she complained about to Amy in early May, "Oh. Ha ha. It wouldn’t turn on. My transmission was dead. I’m out almost 500 to get it replaced. That’s other vehicle 1300 in a month! I’m so mad." :rolleyes:

...or still...she wanted to abandon it 'cause she wanted the insurance money to get a new car 'cause she followed that up with..."You’re telling me. I need a new car pronto."

...but...the car was Cindy's (ok, it was Lee's that had been returned to Cindy and given to Casey to use, but titled to Cindy)...so...insurance money no go to Casey no way, no how, Ki-mo-sah-bee.

:doh:

Very simply, yes, Casey needed wheels.

Spangle
05-06-2009, 11:06 PM
Do you think JB will try to say that Caylee accidentally died in the trunk of the Pontiac where KC put her after she was unable to find a babysitter in time for her hot date? KC normally put Caylee in the trunk late at night and got her out early in the morning while it was still cool but this time it was earlier in the afternoon when the temperature was still hot. The next morning when KC found Caylee and it was too late, she was too afraid to tell anyone, didn't know what to do, so she winged it as usual and ignored her dead baby.

Locking your child in a car trunk for a few minutes would be considered child abuse. (running into the store, child locked in car) Keeping the child there as a sitter situation, is really child abuse. Hours of abandonment in an oven)

Child dying during child abuse, makes the abuser eligible for DP. Not sure

BondJamesBond
05-06-2009, 11:07 PM
A little OT example, but I think we can all relate.

If LE were to come to my door :cop: and ask if I saw the neighbor across the street digging in their front yard recently, I would say yes, in fact I saw two men digging as I was leaving mid-afternoon to go to a game. When? Maybe last week...but it could have been two weeks ago. I'm really not sure but I know it had to be last week or the week before.

Looking at my calendar, it had to be one of three possible days, but I am not sure. It was sunny out, so if I refer to weatherunderground, I eliminate one of the two days. Notice how I had to do research :sleuth: to first figure out there were three possible days and then do additional research to eliminate one of those days. I could not with any certainty tell you which of those two days - and they are six days apart.

Now the fun part. Could I describe what the second man looked like? Hmmmm...No. I might be inclined to say he was Hispanic because my neighbor is, but being honest with myself, I really don't know. I could not tell you his age either. All I know is that he looked male and would be too stocky to be a woman.

How about what they were wearing? Well, they were digging a hole so they must have been wearing jeans, beige work jackets, and boots...right? Well, I know they were not wearing suits or dresses, because that would have stood out. So they must have been wearing work clothes because they did not register. As to describing them though, I cannot.

Did I notice anything unusual, such as a garbage bag next to the hole they were digging? No. I glanced for maybe two seconds, long enough to wave and be on my way. :wave:

You know, JWG. What scares the helloutta me...is that all makes perfect sense. :eek: :bang: WTH are we doin' :confused:


Back to the Amscot employee...I think she either mixed her days up, or simply recalled seeing a different white vehicle (any make or model and with or without the nose bra). Honest mis-association. :angel:

Methinks Vicky prolly noticed the car when she left for the day 6/27, and, then, upon arrival 6/28 7AM she says to herself, "Self, that car was here yesterday." So...in Vicky's mind, the notion that the car might need to be towed got associated with seeing it upon arrival @ work 7AM...and further associated with it being left there 6/27...these two things get smooshed together after a a few weeks elapsed into 'the car was there 7AM 6/27'. Tada!

Rumpole
05-06-2009, 11:09 PM
...and if you wanna say she was frugal you'd say she wanted to get her (or George's) money's worth outta the repairs she complained about to Amy in early May, "Oh. Ha ha. It wouldn’t turn on. My transmission was dead. I’m out almost 500 to get it replaced. That’s other vehicle 1300 in a month! I’m so mad." :rolleyes:

...or still...she wanted to abandon it 'cause she wanted the insurance money to get a new car 'cause she followed that up with..."You’re telling me. I need a new car pronto."

...but...the car was Cindy's (ok, it was Lee's that had been returned to Cindy and given to Casey to use, but titled to Cindy)...so...insurance money no go to Casey no way, no how, Ki-mo-sah-bee.

:doh:

Very simply, yes, Casey needed wheels.
You and JWG present convincing evidence that KC was trying real hard to get some gas to the car and retrieve it. She had not abandoned it.
I imagine she thought the Dead body smell would be gone or going at least, with the actual body having now been removed.
Having failed to get to Amscot in time:
Short term she had Tony's jeep/Amy's car, so no doubt put "getting Pontiac back" on the back-burner.

Jolynna
05-06-2009, 11:11 PM
Casey left the Pontiac chock-full of evidence. It had Amy's resume, a handwritten note with Ric and Amy's new address and personal papers including the Mrs. Casey Lazzaro page. The trunk was full of trash from Tony's apartment including receipts with Tony's roommate's names.

Most don't leave detailed directions to ALL their hide-outs in a car reeking of dead body fluid (on purpose).

Tony left town June 30. As soon as he was gone Casey was knocking on Amy's door and getting her to go with her to get a gas can. Tony picked Casey up onJune 27, a Friday afternoon. With all TL's teasing about maybe "not coming back from NY". Casey was probably stuck to him like glue cementing the relationship before he left. However the MINUTE he left Casey headed over to Amy's to get a gas can.

Casey probably intended to detail the car herself while Tony was gone. That way there would be no chance of him coming around to see what she was doing and asking to "help". If I were in Casey's shoes and needing to clean up a dead body, I'd rather do it when there was no chance of anyone else being around.

But she waited too long to get the car. Oops. Now what? No way could she call LE and report the car with dead baby hair and decomposition in the trunk...stolen. Oh well...

DAWN TREADER
05-06-2009, 11:45 PM
In many ways Casey is dumb as rocks and smart as a fox. The key to her guilt/innocence lies not in what she says or does but what she doesn't say or do. The forensics will tell the story.

JWG
05-06-2009, 11:48 PM
You and JWG present convincing evidence that KC was trying real hard to get some gas to the car and retrieve it. She had not abandoned it.
I imagine she thought the Dead body smell would be gone or going at least, with the actual body having now been removed.
Having failed to get to Amscot in time:
Short term she had Tony's jeep/Amy's car, so no doubt put "getting Pontiac back" on the back-burner.

At the risk of going :offtopic:again, I went to Scandinavia for three weeks with my youngest brother 20 years ago on a driving / camping trip. My brother hates fish :trout: so about the only thing he would eat over there was sausage. He bought some type of sausage in Norway with the name Spaak, made, IIRC, of whale meat. Personally, I did not think it smelled very good. It smelled even worse after he left half of it in the car for the day while we went hiking. :sick:

Even though we threw this half-eaten sausage out the car stunk for the remaining two weeks of the trip. We drove with the windows down and aired the thing out all the time. We returned the car in Hamburg, Germany, and a week later I see an 80 DM charge added to my bill for cleaning. I disputed the charge :argue: and recall a conversation with a rep over the phone where she related that they had never had a car smell that bad. Blame Spaak, I told them. :thumb:

Point is, if KC had ever bothered travelling to Norway and left half a Spaak in her car for even a day, she woulda known that smell was not going away on its own. :no:

Rumpole
05-06-2009, 11:58 PM
At the risk of going :offtopic:again, I went to Scandinavia for three weeks with my youngest brother 20 years ago on a driving / camping trip. My brother hates fish :trout: so about the only thing he would eat over there was sausage. He bought some type of sausage in Norway with the name Spaak, made, IIRC, of whale meat. Personally, I did not think it smelled very good. It smelled even worse after he left half of it in the car for the day while we went hiking. :sick:

Even though we threw this half-eaten sausage out the car stunk for the remaining two weeks of the trip. We drove with the windows down and aired the thing out all the time. We returned the car in Hamburg, Germany, and a week later I see an 80 DM charge added to my bill for cleaning. I disputed the charge :argue: and recall a conversation with a rep over the phone where she related that they had never had a car smell that bad. Blame Spaak, I told them. :thumb:

Point is, if KC had ever bothered travelling to Norway and left half a Spaak in her car for even a day, she woulda known that smell was not going away on its own. :no:

:doh: Now JB can use that as defence!

The old "Spaak in the trunk" defence!

:couch: Do not accept envelopes from strangers! Could be a subpoena as defence witness? :eek:

(Mind you KC will open herself up to charges at the Hague for trafficking in Whale meat?)

Virtual Truth
05-07-2009, 12:06 AM
Casey left the Pontiac chock-full of evidence. It had Amy's resume, a handwritten note with Ric and Amy's new address and personal papers including the Mrs. Casey Lazzaro page. The trunk was full of trash from Tony's apartment including receipts with Tony's roommate's names.

Most don't leave detailed directions to ALL their hide-outs in a car reeking of dead body fluid (on purpose).

Tony left town June 30. As soon as he was gone Casey was knocking on Amy's door and getting her to go with her to get a gas can. Tony picked Casey up onJune 27, a Friday afternoon. With all TL's teasing about maybe "not coming back from NY". Casey was probably stuck to him like glue cementing the relationship before he left. However the MINUTE he left Casey headed over to Amy's to get a gas can.

Casey probably intended to detail the car herself while Tony was gone. That way there would be no chance of him coming around to see what she was doing and asking to "help". If I were in Casey's shoes and needing to clean up a dead body, I'd rather do it when there was no chance of anyone else being around.

But she waited too long to get the car. Oops. Now what? No way could she call LE and report the car with dead baby hair and decomposition in the trunk...stolen. Oh well...

Have we ever considered that perhaps KC WANTED and/or NEEDED Amy and Tony to be in the Amscot parking lot in hopes that someone would later remember seeing one of their cars, if and when this all came to light???? Was she setting the stage for one of her "new" friends to become the prime suspect in Caylee's disappearance? Her relationship with TL was brief and not very solid....he wouldn't take her calls from jail! And, well need I say, poor Amy turned out to be a mark for money!! JMO...

Bittiness39
05-07-2009, 12:07 AM
The only conclusion to the death smell in the car..."abandoned car" (which I don't believe it was abandoned) etc...is that KC killed Caylee and had no help in doing so. Mothers do kill their own kids without help. While it might be HARD FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND...I believe in my heart that this tiny, cute to the eyes person (KC) KILLED HER OWN CHILD without help!!!!!!
And I don't believe she dumped the car. I believe she ran out of gas and would rather spend money (stolen) at Target than to spend money on gas.

Bittiness39
05-07-2009, 12:11 AM
Locking your child in a car trunk for a few minutes would be considered child abuse. (running into the store, child locked in car) Keeping the child there as a sitter situation, is really child abuse. Hours of abandonment in an oven)

Child dying during child abuse, makes the abuser eligible for DP. Not sure

Why is this still considered an angle by anyone? Respectfully, locking your child in a trunk in a humid climate like Orlando...would result in death long before this if it were a regular habit. It appears like most whom subscribe to this theory seem to think KC drugged Caylee a lot before now and used the trunk to hide her...how many times have kids died in cars in the seats of cars where the windows weren't rolled down? A lot. I doubt a child would have lasted one no more than two times in a trunk in the heat...with no holes...bs. Sorry. I respectfully disagree.

Ripley007
05-07-2009, 12:19 AM
:doh: Now JB can use that as defence!

The old "Spaak in the trunk" defence!

:couch: Do not accept envelopes from strangers! Could be a subpoena as defence witness? :eek:

(Mind you KC will open herself up to charges at the Hague for trafficking in Whale meat?)

More likely Hillbillyshire Farms Squirrel Sausage. It's unamerican to eat whales.:crazy:

Rumpole
05-07-2009, 12:22 AM
More likely Hillbillyshire Farms Squirrel Sausage. It's unamerican to eat whales.:crazy:
In the form of Squirreloni pizza? :eek:

ecs5298
05-07-2009, 12:25 AM
In the form of Squirreloni pizza? :eek:

Now you guys are just getting plain silly. Everyone knows squirreloni isn't made with real squirrels. It's actually a mixture of bologna and cole slaw!

BondJamesBond
05-07-2009, 12:45 AM
At the risk of going :offtopic:again, I went to Scandinavia for three weeks with my youngest brother 20 years ago on a driving / camping trip. My brother hates fish :trout: so about the only thing he would eat over there was sausage. He bought some type of sausage in Norway with the name Spaak, made, IIRC, of whale meat. Personally, I did not think it smelled very good. It smelled even worse after he left half of it in the car for the day while we went hiking. :sick:

Even though we threw this half-eaten sausage out the car stunk for the remaining two weeks of the trip. We drove with the windows down and aired the thing out all the time. We returned the car in Hamburg, Germany, and a week later I see an 80 DM charge added to my bill for cleaning. I disputed the charge :argue: and recall a conversation with a rep over the phone where she related that they had never had a car smell that bad. Blame Spaak, I told them. :thumb:

Point is, if KC had ever bothered travelling to Norway and left half a Spaak in her car for even a day, she woulda known that smell was not going away on its own. :no:

...I fail to see how this is off-topic...is that a problem?

And did I mention, my sister was bitten by a moose once...

MAMABEAR
05-07-2009, 12:45 AM
i don't think the ice-pops would still have been frozen.

does anyone have a scale map of the area regularly traversed by casey or a good idea of the distances involved? it strikes me that there's likely one already been posted somewhere.

Were them ice pops the kind you get in the big box---they aren't frozen. When you get them home , you put em in the freezer?

BondJamesBond
05-07-2009, 12:53 AM
i don't think the ice-pops would still have been frozen.

does anyone have a scale map of the area regularly traversed by casey or a good idea of the distances involved? it strikes me that there's likely one already been posted somewhere.

esp. w/ the whole global warmin' thing kickin' in...just sayin'

FWIW, thanks to Georgia PI :highfive: there are links to google maps for each day of the case in the Case Analysis forum - just pick the thread titled with the date of interest (e.g. 6/27 for outta-gas-at-Amscot day). The link to the map is in post#1 of each thread. Each day map is marked w/ the cell phone pings of the day as well as the landmark locations of the day.

jjgram
05-07-2009, 12:59 AM
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap::rolling::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh ::floorlaugh::laughbig::laughitup::laughbig::floor laugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
d i t t o again ! ! !

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

jjgram
05-07-2009, 01:08 AM
Casey left the Pontiac chock-full of evidence. It had Amy's resume, a handwritten note with Ric and Amy's new address and personal papers including the Mrs. Casey Lazzaro page. The trunk was full of trash from Tony's apartment including receipts with Tony's roommate's names.

Most don't leave detailed directions to ALL their hide-outs in a car reeking of dead body fluid (on purpose).

Tony left town June 30. As soon as he was gone Casey was knocking on Amy's door and getting her to go with her to get a gas can. Tony picked Casey up onJune 27, a Friday afternoon. With all TL's teasing about maybe "not coming back from NY". Casey was probably stuck to him like glue cementing the relationship before he left. However the MINUTE he left Casey headed over to Amy's to get a gas can.

Casey probably intended to detail the car herself while Tony was gone. That way there would be no chance of him coming around to see what she was doing and asking to "help". If I were in Casey's shoes and needing to clean up a dead body, I'd rather do it when there was no chance of anyone else being around.

But she waited too long to get the car. Oops. Now what? No way could she call LE and report the car with dead baby hair and decomposition in the trunk...stolen. Oh well...

:clap: :clap: :clap:
GRRRRREAT POST !

sounds like KC............


JMO also !!!

God Bless !
jjgram

brownflower
05-07-2009, 02:59 AM
I hope these pings from Casey's cell phone on June 27 will be considered facts:

the letters are locations
A-Close to Tony L
B-Close to Tony L
D-Close to Amscot

From these pings we can see that Casey circled Amscot several times.
Here's a link to a map of the ping locations

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg21/awakening2lite/CAping6272.jpg

I hope this is factual enough.

June 27, Friday

A~6:54 am 11 0sec
A~9:36 am Casey to Casey 34 sec
A~9:36 am 0 0 sec
A~9:37 am Shirley Plesea 131 sec
B~10:22 am Amy H 554 sec
n/a~10:34 am too many numbers 0 sec
J~10:35 am Jesse Grund 184 sec
H~11:09 am JC Penney online credit center 88 sec
K~11:28 am Tony L 0 sec
I~11:28 am Tony L 152 sec
H~11:31 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
H~11:32 am unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
H~11:33 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
L~11:34 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
L~11:34 am Amy H 0 sec Text about dead animal on car grill
J~11:37 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
J~11:39 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:40 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:41 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:41 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
F~11:42 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
F~11:43 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:44 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:47 am Tony L 115 sec
D~11:49 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:49 am Amy H 0 sec
D~11:51 am Jesse Grund 305 sec
D~11:58 am Amy H 0 sec
A~12:25 pm 1697722 0 sec
A~12:38 pm Jesse Grund 0 sec
A~12:51 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
B~1:02 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:03 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:04 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:04 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:05 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:09 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:09 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
B~1:10 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:11 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
A~1:12 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:12 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
A~1:13 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
A~1:14 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
A~1:14 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:16 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:17 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:17 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:18 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:32 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
B~1:26 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
B~1:27 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:27 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:28 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
D~1:28 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:36 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:40 pm Jesse Grund 0 sec
D~1:40 pm Unknown Winter Pk 7 sec
D~1:47 pm Jesse Grund 149 sec
B~1:47 pm Unknown 6 sec
D~1:51 pm Unknown Broward County 6 sec
D~1:51 pm Unknown Broward County 96 sec
A~2:03 pm Jesse Grund 5 sec
A~2:07 pm Jesse Grund 173 sec
A~2:11 pm JC Penney online credit center 11 sec
n/a~2:27 pm Thomas Blackburn 5 sec
n/a~2:27 pm Mark Hawkins 5 sec
M~3:03 pm Unknown 0 sec
M~3:05 pm Unknown 0 sec
M~3:05 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~3:10 pm Peter (friend of Troy) 0 sec
D~3:11 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
D~3:11 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
D~3:12 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
A~5:51 pm Shirley & Alex Plesea 57 sec
A~3:56 pm Mustang Parts 0 sec
D~5:00 pm Amy H 225 sec
A~5:31 pm Unknown Winter Park 0 sec
A~5:33 pm Unknown Winter Park 0 sec
A~5:33 pm Unknown Winter Park 0 sec
D~6:22 pm Unknown 0 sec
A~6:24 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:27 pm Troy Brown 0 sec
D~6:27 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
D~6:27 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:27 pm Annie Downing 0 sec
D~6:28 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
A~6:32 pm Unknown 0 sec
A~6:33 pm Unknown 0 sec
B~6:34 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
D~6:34 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:35 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:35 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
D~6:35 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:36 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
D~6:36 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:37 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
D~6:37 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:37 pm Unknown 0 sec
A~6:38 pm Unknown 0 sec
A~6:43 pm Shirley Plesea 259 sec
B~6:49 pm Mark Hawkins 48 sec
B~6:51 pm Mar Hawkins 0 sec
B~8:10 pm Troy Brown 0 sec
A~8:10 pm Troy Brown 0 sec
A~8:15 pm Jesse Grund 0 sec
A~8:16 pm Troy Brown 0 sec
A~8:16 pm Troy Brown 0 sec
A~8:32 pm Mark Denver (RE) 23 sec
n/a~8:33 pm Thomas Blackburn (3way?) 9 sec
n/a~8:33 pm Anthony House (3way?) 9 sec
E~8:36 pm Shirley Plesea 0 sec
E~8:46 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
E~8:50 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
E~8:50 pm Unknown Orange Co 0 sec
N~8:55 pm Unknown Orange Co 0 sec
G~8:56 pm Unknown Orange Co 0 sec
G~8:59 pm Unknown local 0 sec
G~9:00 pm Unknown Orange Co 0 sec
G~9:00 pm Unkown local 0 sec
G~9:01 pm Anthony House 129 sec
G~9:01 pm Unknown local 0 sec
G~9:06 pm Anthony house 384 sec
n/a~9:12 pm Tony L 0 sec
G~9:13 pm Tony L 2 sec
n/a~9:13 pm Amy H 2 sec
G~9:24 pm Amy H 30 sec
G~9:27 pm Tony L 5 sec
G~10:21 pm Jesse Grund 37 sec
G~10:38 pm Unknown 85 sec
G~10:43 pm Jesse Grund 0 sec
G~10:43 pm Jesse Grund 0 sec
G~10:58 pm Shirley Plesea 0 sec
G~11:23 pm Amy H 0 sec
G~11:24 pm Amy H 0 sec
G~11:24 pm Amy H 0 sec
G~11:24 pm Amy H 0 sec
G~11:30 pm Unknown local 27 sec
G~11:55 pm Unknown local 38 sec
End of call for 6/27

snow_walker
05-07-2009, 07:24 AM
Could someone please help me get my ducks in a row with this? (I am really, really tired, didn't sleep all night, and am taking some pain pills that further foggy my mind, so please cut me a little slack)
Anyway, my mind keeps going over the same ground, without getting it together enough to come up with a scenerio that fits well enough to suit me..

Didn't she leave her purse in the car when she left the car in the parking lot?

Didn't they empty out the car in the garage once they got it home, and CA take something like $200.00 dollars out of KC's wallet? (according to LA)

If so, and if I am not confused about those matters, then why would she let the car run out of gas? Or if that did happen, why not get some more gas right away? Surely, if she wanted that car back, it would be better to buy her own gas and gas can, than to wait until she could get someone else to buy it for her?

All of that makes me think she was hoping someone would steal it.
Then again though, why leave money in the car ? and her ID? And other stuff as well..rather expensive/important bait if that is why she left it. So surely she meant to get it back.

So I come back to 'she must have intended to retrieve the car' but then go around the whole issue again with 'Why didn't she go get her own gas right away if she meant to retrieve the car?'

TallyHo
05-07-2009, 07:40 AM
I hope these pings from Casey's cell phone on June 27 will be considered facts:

the letters are locations
A-Close to Tony L
B-Close to Tony L
D-Close to Amscot

From these pings we can see that Casey circled Amscot several times.
Here's a link to a map of the ping locations

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg21/awakening2lite/CAping6272.jpg

I hope this is factual enough.

June 27, Friday

A~6:54 am 11 0sec
A~9:36 am Casey to Casey 34 sec
A~9:36 am 0 0 sec
A~9:37 am Shirley Plesea 131 sec
B~10:22 am Amy H 554 sec
n/a~10:34 am too many numbers 0 sec
J~10:35 am Jesse Grund 184 sec
H~11:09 am JC Penney online credit center 88 sec
K~11:28 am Tony L 0 sec
I~11:28 am Tony L 152 sec
H~11:31 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
H~11:32 am unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
H~11:33 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
L~11:34 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
L~11:34 am Amy H 0 sec Text about dead animal on car grill
J~11:37 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
J~11:39 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:40 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:41 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:41 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
F~11:42 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
F~11:43 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:44 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:47 am Tony L 115 sec
D~11:49 am Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~11:49 am Amy H 0 sec
D~11:51 am Jesse Grund 305 sec
D~11:58 am Amy H 0 sec
A~12:25 pm 1697722 0 sec
A~12:38 pm Jesse Grund 0 sec
A~12:51 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
B~1:02 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:03 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:04 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:04 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:05 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:09 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:09 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
B~1:10 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:11 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
A~1:12 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:12 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
A~1:13 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
A~1:14 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
A~1:14 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:16 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:17 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:17 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:18 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
A~1:32 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
B~1:26 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
B~1:27 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:27 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:28 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
D~1:28 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:36 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
D~1:40 pm Jesse Grund 0 sec
D~1:40 pm Unknown Winter Pk 7 sec
D~1:47 pm Jesse Grund 149 sec
B~1:47 pm Unknown 6 sec
D~1:51 pm Unknown Broward County 6 sec
D~1:51 pm Unknown Broward County 96 sec
A~2:03 pm Jesse Grund 5 sec
A~2:07 pm Jesse Grund 173 sec
A~2:11 pm JC Penney online credit center 11 sec
n/a~2:27 pm Thomas Blackburn 5 sec
n/a~2:27 pm Mark Hawkins 5 sec
M~3:03 pm Unknown 0 sec
M~3:05 pm Unknown 0 sec
M~3:05 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~3:10 pm Peter (friend of Troy) 0 sec
D~3:11 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
D~3:11 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
D~3:12 pm Unknown Broward County 0 sec
A~5:51 pm Shirley & Alex Plesea 57 sec
A~3:56 pm Mustang Parts 0 sec
D~5:00 pm Amy H 225 sec
A~5:31 pm Unknown Winter Park 0 sec
A~5:33 pm Unknown Winter Park 0 sec
A~5:33 pm Unknown Winter Park 0 sec
D~6:22 pm Unknown 0 sec
A~6:24 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:27 pm Troy Brown 0 sec
D~6:27 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
D~6:27 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:27 pm Annie Downing 0 sec
D~6:28 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
A~6:32 pm Unknown 0 sec
A~6:33 pm Unknown 0 sec
B~6:34 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
D~6:34 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:35 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:35 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
D~6:35 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:36 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
D~6:36 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:37 pm Sean Daly 0 sec
D~6:37 pm Unknown 0 sec
D~6:37 pm Unknown 0 sec
A~6:38 pm Unknown 0 sec
A~6:43 pm Shirley Plesea 259 sec
B~6:49 pm Mark Hawkins 48 sec
B~6:51 pm Mar Hawkins 0 sec
B~8:10 pm Troy Brown 0 sec
A~8:10 pm Troy Brown 0 sec
A~8:15 pm Jesse Grund 0 sec
A~8:16 pm Troy Brown 0 sec
A~8:16 pm Troy Brown 0 sec
A~8:32 pm Mark Denver (RE) 23 sec
n/a~8:33 pm Thomas Blackburn (3way?) 9 sec
n/a~8:33 pm Anthony House (3way?) 9 sec
E~8:36 pm Shirley Plesea 0 sec
E~8:46 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
E~8:50 pm Unknown Winter Pk 0 sec
E~8:50 pm Unknown Orange Co 0 sec
N~8:55 pm Unknown Orange Co 0 sec
G~8:56 pm Unknown Orange Co 0 sec
G~8:59 pm Unknown local 0 sec
G~9:00 pm Unknown Orange Co 0 sec
G~9:00 pm Unkown local 0 sec
G~9:01 pm Anthony House 129 sec
G~9:01 pm Unknown local 0 sec
G~9:06 pm Anthony house 384 sec
n/a~9:12 pm Tony L 0 sec
G~9:13 pm Tony L 2 sec
n/a~9:13 pm Amy H 2 sec
G~9:24 pm Amy H 30 sec
G~9:27 pm Tony L 5 sec
G~10:21 pm Jesse Grund 37 sec
G~10:38 pm Unknown 85 sec
G~10:43 pm Jesse Grund 0 sec
G~10:43 pm Jesse Grund 0 sec
G~10:58 pm Shirley Plesea 0 sec
G~11:23 pm Amy H 0 sec
G~11:24 pm Amy H 0 sec
G~11:24 pm Amy H 0 sec
G~11:24 pm Amy H 0 sec
G~11:30 pm Unknown local 27 sec
G~11:55 pm Unknown local 38 sec
End of call for 6/27

OMG!!!! Do we have ANY idea who the "uknown" in WinterPark is????? If that doesn't constitute a flurry of calls, I don't know what does!

BonKai
05-07-2009, 07:40 AM
More likely Hillbillyshire Farms Squirrel Sausage. It's unamerican to eat whales.:crazy:

:floorlaugh: Too funny!

KenoshaKid
05-07-2009, 08:22 AM
What stands out to me is that she prepped Amy for the stink in the car with the squirrel story. She knew if Amy came with her to put gas in it she may smell the odor and had to have an excuse all ready to go. Amy may not have gotten the full effect just standing near the car, but Tony, if she were to drive him somewhere, would have been bowled over by it being in the car, and the squirrel story may not have flown. Hence, two different alibis for two different situations.

Spangle
05-07-2009, 08:22 AM
Why is this still considered an angle by anyone? Respectfully, locking your child in a trunk in a humid climate like Orlando...would result in death long before this if it were a regular habit. It appears like most whom subscribe to this theory seem to think KC drugged Caylee a lot before now and used the trunk to hide her...how many times have kids died in cars in the seats of cars where the windows weren't rolled down? A lot. I doubt a child would have lasted one no more than two times in a trunk in the heat...with no holes...bs. Sorry. I respectfully disagree.

I wasn't trying to validate the theory. But to point out that such a tail would be admiting to child abuse. And dying because of child abuse will get ya the DP in Florida.

You might want to point out that as a person who lives in Florida, she would have seen countless hours of commercials telling her not to leave a pet in the car while you go into 7-11. Cause the heat will kill them that quick. Of course, got the same ads for the kids. In Florida, leaving a child in the auto for just a few minutes is/can be considered child abuse. If seen and reported, the child will be taken away and the parent would be under investigation for child abuse. All this not because the child might be kidnapped. But because the heat can kill the child. If a parent will do it once, they don't understand the problem.

As I said, the issue I was addressing is the thought that if she admitted to making a 'woops', then she would be ok. The only way it would work, is if the "woops' isn't considered child abuse in it's self or some major deal. Locking your kid in the car.. isn't no simple 'woops.' IF she died that way, then it's death for the child abuser...

sumbunny
05-07-2009, 09:05 AM
Could someone please help me get my ducks in a row with this? (I am really, really tired, didn't sleep all night, and am taking some pain pills that further foggy my mind, so please cut me a little slack)
Anyway, my mind keeps going over the same ground, without getting it together enough to come up with a scenerio that fits well enough to suit me..

Didn't she leave her purse in the car when she left the car in the parking lot?

Didn't they empty out the car in the garage once they got it home, and CA take something like $200.00 dollars out of KC's wallet? (according to LA)

If so, and if I am not confused about those matters, then why would she let the car run out of gas? Or if that did happen, why not get some more gas right away? Surely, if she wanted that car back, it would be better to buy her own gas and gas can, than to wait until she could get someone else to buy it for her?

All of that makes me think she was hoping someone would steal it.
Then again though, why leave money in the car ? and her ID? And other stuff as well..rather expensive/important bait if that is why she left it. So surely she meant to get it back.

So I come back to 'she must have intended to retrieve the car' but then go around the whole issue again with 'Why didn't she go get her own gas right away if she meant to retrieve the car?'

I don't believe her main purse was left in the car, that was retrieved from TL house, with the money.

BondJamesBond
05-07-2009, 09:53 AM
I hope these pings from Casey's cell phone on June 27 will be considered facts:

the letters are locations
A-Close to Tony L
B-Close to Tony L
D-Close to Amscot

From these pings we can see that Casey circled Amscot several times.
Here's a link to a map of the ping locations

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg21/awakening2lite/CAping6272.jpg

I hope this is factual enough.
*snipped for space*

Thanks, Brownflower. You've clearly invested some time & effort in putting all of that together.

I'm curious if you can help me see how you distinguish from the pings that Casey was circling vs. stationary. I don't know how to do that and would love to learn. Can you tell what route she was taking as she circled? Back and forth between JBPark & Amscot? TIA!


OMG!!!! Do we have ANY idea who the "uknown" in WinterPark is????? If that doesn't constitute a flurry of calls, I don't know what does!

FWIW, TH, if I understand the series you are referring to ~1:16-1:27PM, those are text message exchanges between Casey & Jenna.

BondJamesBond
05-07-2009, 10:08 AM
Could someone please help me get my ducks in a row with this? (I am really, really tired, didn't sleep all night, and am taking some pain pills that further foggy my mind, so please cut me a little slack)
Anyway, my mind keeps going over the same ground, without getting it together enough to come up with a scenerio that fits well enough to suit me..

Didn't she leave her purse in the car when she left the car in the parking lot?

Didn't they empty out the car in the garage once they got it home, and CA take something like $200.00 dollars out of KC's wallet? (according to LA)

If so, and if I am not confused about those matters, then why would she let the car run out of gas? Or if that did happen, why not get some more gas right away? Surely, if she wanted that car back, it would be better to buy her own gas and gas can, than to wait until she could get someone else to buy it for her?

All of that makes me think she was hoping someone would steal it.
Then again though, why leave money in the car ? and her ID? And other stuff as well..rather expensive/important bait if that is why she left it. So surely she meant to get it back.

So I come back to 'she must have intended to retrieve the car' but then go around the whole issue again with 'Why didn't she go get her own gas right away if she meant to retrieve the car?'

You're in good company, SW. Lemme see if I can help a bit. Others have done a better job of giving more details when you have a chance to read back on the thread, but, FWIW...I'm gonna use the term bag/purse so as not to suggest this is a specific answer...

1) Casey left A purse/bag in the car. Earlier someone suggested this wasn't even a purse, but, possibly just bag of one type or another. It doesn't appear this was the purse/bag she was using to carry the bulk of her personal items, since she had those w/ her @ Tony's apartment.

2) Lee retrieved Casey's belongings from Tony's apartment the night of the 911 calls (7/15). This included some duffle/backpack/bags (just giving you a general idea since I'm not looking up the details...so don't quote me on the bag types) When he returned to G&C's house one of these purse/bags was dumped out in the presence of an officer and a small group (e.g. Cindy & Lee too) started going through the contents. Cindy snatched up a few hundred bucks in cash and commented that it belonged to her implying Casey had been stealing from her IIRC. The officer spotted something behind Casey's drivers license in the process and snatched it outta there before Lee got a good look @ what it was (much speculation that this was a fake ID)

3) JWG posted earlier and I did a poor job of quoting (should bumped it and may do that next), but, to summarize, the Pontiac was locked @ Amscot and Casey had the keys.

4) Casey did make an attempt to retrieve the car by getting some gas, but, was too slow about it and the car had been towed (~9AM IIRC) by the time she got around to it 6/30 ~4:50PM.

5) G&C did remove a few items from the Pontiac when they got it home 7/15 before Casey (and Lee and LE) arrived. But they didn't "empty out" the car. The first or second doc dump provides the inventory of the car when LE came to pick it up for the forensics unit as well as items LE removed from the car before it was taken, IIRC. So...G&C did a little, but, not a thorough empty & clean. The most notable items G&C affected that we know about are the knife and the pants...Cindy cleaned both per her account before surrendering them to LE.

6) By my calculations...see detail provided in a post a few pages back...Casey actually did run outta gas.

7) I won't go into details, but, some evidence suggests Casey may have attempted to get gas for the Pontiac on Sunday morning, and when that failed, she was content to wait until Monday to enlist Amy's help (and $). IMHO, to minimize the potential that Amy would meddle in the situation and get some personal experience w/ the decomp smell (although Casey had prepared a story for that the day prior w/ texting) Casey waited till Amy was ready to go to work before heading back over to where the car was located (that is pure speculation...I couldn't back that up w/o doing some reading).

Hope that helps clear the fog a bit. Others can chime in w/ details on this bag, that purse, etc. etc. if you wanna know more.

Hot Dogs
05-07-2009, 10:24 AM
1) Casey left A purse/bag in the car. Earlier someone suggested this wasn't even a purse, but, possibly just bag of one type or another. It doesn't appear this was the purse/bag she was using to carry the bulk of her personal items, since she had those w/ her @ Tony's apartment.


I double-checked the evidence. The car contained a CD case (with CDs) and a black leather bag. I recall seeing a photo of the bag and it is not a purse.

songline
05-07-2009, 10:26 AM
It is obvious girl friend wanted that car off her hands because it was smelling so bad. She told Amy it was smelling so bad because she ran over a squirrel. And who drives around with a trash bag full of garbage in their car? More smelly stuff to cover up the smell of decomposition?

I take that back about perhaps Tony knowing more than he is telling. The reason being that in some countries where they don't embalm dead bodies they leave them out for people to observe for a couple of days. I think you have to have the body in the ground by day three though. That's part of the Jewish custom too. (Don't quote me on that but, I think in an Orthodox Jewish family the body has to be buried by day three. I've been to an Orthodox Jewish funeral/wake and I could not smell the body. It must have been the same night or the next day after the person died.
FYI Jewish people get buried 24 hours later unless it is on the Sabbath (Saturday) then they are refrigerated and buried on a Sunday. NOT 3 days.

snow_walker
05-07-2009, 10:31 AM
Thank you James Bond ~ I see my first problem was that I was in error over the basic fact that the 'purse' was not the 'bag' left in the car. Still seems dim to me not to get a taxi and head right back over there with some gas, if she had some money, or as soon as she had some...but then KC did many things I would have done quite differently.

That would be the logical thing to do, impossible to say with any certainty then what she actually did do or why she did it.

My guess is that she wanted the car back, but got distracted with 'The Good Life'. Then too she didn't want any of her friends near enough to the car to smell it, if she could help it, but did want one of them to pay for the gas and gas can, if she could manage it. Kind of difficult to juggle that whole act, so it wound up with her procrastinating so long the car got towed.

songline
05-07-2009, 10:40 AM
Casey is not that dumb. She didn't let the LE trick her into confessing to a crime that she did not commit.
That is not about how smart she is. I am sure that GA told her if you did not do anything do not allow them to trick you into any confessions, Or you will never get out.
But Casey smart :nono: :nono: :nono: I think she is a :cheesehead2:

songline
05-07-2009, 10:46 AM
i don't know what has provoked the seemingly popular idea that great thought and planning along w/ outside help was necessary in order to carry out the murder and disposal of caylee anthony.
casey killed a 2yr old child who couldn't possibly defend themselves (easy) then dumped the body round the corner (easy) neither of these acts required intelligence or help.
i'll admit that LE are stumped regarding the cause of death. the first time kronk contacted them they sent an idiot out and then the body was submerged for months leaving them only skeletal remains to work w/. that's not the result of a methodical plan; that's the result of shoddy work and really bad weather.
I appreciate the way you think and it may have merit. I still believe in turning over every stone, because some things are not as they seem. and I still think it would require a sharper mind then Casey has to pull it off in a way that would stump LE.

songline
05-07-2009, 10:59 AM
Do you think JB will try to say that Caylee accidentally died in the trunk of the Pontiac where KC put her after she was unable to find a babysitter in time for her hot date? KC normally put Caylee in the trunk late at night and got her out early in the morning while it was still cool but this time it was earlier in the afternoon when the temperature was still hot. The next morning when KC found Caylee and it was too late, she was too afraid to tell anyone, didn't know what to do, so she winged it as usual and ignored her dead baby.
That was my original thinking too - but now I am questioning and questioning many things :confused:

wenwe4
05-07-2009, 11:23 AM
I have not read all thru this thread, so if it's been brought up before then please forgive this post. Has anyone inquired about the "black box" on board the Pontiac? I know the computer logs everything and keeps that info stored for hundreds of miles. The Pontiac Service Dealerships have diagnostics that can determine when the car ran out of gas, what was happening at the time, what has happened since, how many miles it's been since the last oil change, etc. Also, if Pontiac is the same as Toyota, the On Board Diagnostics can actually tell what a car was doing (ie: turning, accelorating, how fast, etc) if the owner claims something failed on the car to cause an accident. The mechanics at the dealership do not have access to that info, but the Manufacturer does and can provide detailed info. Wonder if LE brought in a Pontiac expert?

songline
05-07-2009, 11:25 AM
THANK YOU EVERYBODY. :)
GREAT POSTS, GREAT INFORMATION. :clap::clap:

natsound
05-07-2009, 11:47 AM
FYI, here is a link to the interview transcript with AL where he's being driven around by police, showing exactly where he picked up KC on June 23 when she ran out of gas. He said the trunk of the car had no strange odor. Very odd.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/030509anthonydiscoverypageslazzaro/indexGallery.htm

marla
05-07-2009, 11:56 AM
FYI, here is a link to the interview transcript with AL where he's being driven around by police, showing exactly where he picked up KC on June 23 when she ran out of gas. He said the trunk of the car had no strange odor. Very odd.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/030509anthonydiscoverypageslazzaro/indexGallery.htm


Yet George saw her on June 24th and the gas can exchange took place .. :confused:

magic-cat
05-07-2009, 12:04 PM
*snipped for space*

Thanks, Brownflower. You've clearly invested some time & effort in putting all of that together.

I'm curious if you can help me see how you distinguish from the pings that Casey was circling vs. stationary. I don't know how to do that and would love to learn. Can you tell what route she was taking as she circled? Back and forth between JBPark & Amscot? TIA!



FWIW, TH, if I understand the series you are referring to ~1:16-1:27PM, those are text message exchanges between Casey & Jenna.

Hey Bond! Who is Jenna? Is that the shot girl that she worked with that has now left the area? I do not recall seeing her interview...:waitasec:

DAWN TREADER
05-07-2009, 12:23 PM
Honestly I don't think we can rule out Casey having help in terms of the disposal of the car and body. Just who this accomplice is, I don't know but if there is one, he/she must be very concerned about the state's decision to put the DP back on the table. Whether it was strictly to advise and/or physically assist Casey, one can only speculate if an accomplice was involved and to what degree.

OTOH, I don't believe ditching the car at Amscot wasn't something KC couldn't have come up with on her own. Ditto disposing of Caylee in the swamp area down the street from her house.

Truth be told, it appears this is a girl who was used to lying to get what she wanted and/or cover her tracks. She survived by living off friends and family.

Luckybuck
05-07-2009, 12:42 PM
It's very possible that Casey was just irresponsible, living in the moment and neglected to go back for the Pontiac for several days.
OR
Casey was working her script to:
A) Have the car stolen
B) Have the car towed to Johnson's
C) Have a prearranged second person pick up the vehicle

In support of plan A
-The Amscot intersection is very busy.
-There are a lot of homeless hanging out and moving about in this area as well as other pedestrians.
( If you want something stolen, this looks like a great spot. If you want to increase your chances of having your car broken into and stolen *leave a bag or other stuff visible, preferably in the front seat* More advice; increase your chances of success by leaving it as long as possible. More exposure that way.)
- There is a CVS across the street, Burger King next door, Sam's Club right behind Amscot and..............a huge GAS STATION right behind AMSCOT:confused::confused:
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY WALK ACROSS THE SAMS CLUB PARKING LOT AND BORROW CAN AND GAS? NO MONEY??
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY ASK TONY FOR A FEW DOLLARS FOR GAS RIGHT THERE? DON'T GAS STATIONS KEEP A CAN THAT YOU CAN BORROW IF YOU LEAVE YOUR LICENSE/MONEY OR SOMETHING?
In support of plan B
- Signs posted in regards to towing. If no one steals it (above) then it goes to the tow yard. There is the excuse for not having my vehicle and needing to borrow someone else's.
Plan C
- Maybe Casey told the truth (:laugh: and her dad was going to pick up the Pontiac. Maybe he recognized the smell right away and knew something terrible had happened. He knew that if he moved that car it would implicate him. He let it go to the tow yard to keep distance between himself and a possible crime. When he picks it up from the tow yard, he asks the attendant to come with him when he opens the trunk....... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

LEAVING THE PONTIAC: IRRESPONSIBLE OR PLANNED???

JWG
05-07-2009, 12:42 PM
FWIW...The following items were removed from the car by Cindy and given to LE in a black trash bag with yellow handles taken from the Anthony garage:

Doll

Dora the Explorer "Adorable" Backpack
- First pocket
- Violet light color comb
- Toothpaste "Spider-Man" with # 03-2010
- Tootbrush "Reach"
- Inside
- Nice'n Toddler clean wipes (pack) serial #7488754530
- Two pull-ups

Child's tooth brush

Black leather bag and belt

Various papers:
Island of Adventure Special Information
Island of Adventure May, 2008
Universal Studios, May 2008
Universal Studios, June 2008
Island of Adventure July 2008
Universal Studios, July 2008
One page with scratch notes

Dinner knife

Blue plastic crate

Plastic clothes hangers

The following was removed from the trunk at the tow yard:

Wt. trash bag w/ blue handles w/ misc. items
1. Empty Coca Cola cherry can 12oz with num #2145.
2. Empty Coca Cola Classic can 12oz with num #22502.
3. Empty Milwaukee's "Best Light" beer can #C7019e.
4. Empty Sprite can 12oz with # 16090RA.
5. Empty circular metal box of "Copenhagen Tobacco" with num # SLN8178.
6. One (1) hair pin; three (3) plastic tie wraps
7. Empty "Dr. Peppe" can 12oz proof of purchase num # 2239E505168X.
8. Empty "Pepsi" can 12oz proof of purchasenum # 1608RF01238.
9. Empty "Sprite" can 12oz proof of purchase num # 16090RA.
10. Empty "Mountain Dew" 12oz proof of purchase num # 2122E504248X.
11. Empty "Oscar Mayer" plastic container 8oz proof of purchase num # 447001090.
12. Empty small "Crystal Light' container num # 249554.
13. Empty "Crystal Light" bottle 16oz with brown liquid proof purchase num # 430093911.
14. Bottle of "Kiwi's Sport Cleaner 5.5oz proof of purchase num # 3160024701.
15. Empty bottle of "Arm & Hammer" 80oz proof of purchase num #33200090430.
16. Empty bottle of "Crystal Light Soft Drink Mix" 80z proof of purchase num #4300095033.
17. Empty black container "Anchor".
18. Empty and broken pizza box "Pizza a Symbol of Quality".
19. Empty carton of "Cherry Coke" 12 packs proof of purchase num# 490003103.
20. Empty carton of "Velveeta" 10.3oz with napkin attach on it with exp day ll/Feb/09.
21. Empty carton of "Velveeta" 12oz proof of purchasenum # 2100065893.
22. Empty carton of "Velveeta" 9Aoz proof of purchase num # 210065643.
23. Empty pack of "Parliament Lights" proof of purchase num # 2820019008.
24. Empty pack of "Marlboro" num # 283022.
25. Empty pack of "Trident Splash" proof of purchase num # 1254667123.
26. Two empty aluminum wraps of "Velveeta" cheese sauce.
27. Piece of fabric that said "L G G made in Honduras of USA fabric".
28. White plastic hanger broken.
29. Piece of paper wrapper "Italian bread" "Roma" with a napkin attach to it.
30. Document "Full Sail" orientation & registration.
31. Three receipts.
32. Document dated on May 9, 2008.
33. Four air freshener sheets.
34. Five napkins.
35. Plastic wrapper of "Stouffer's" garlic chicken proof of purchase num # 1380045214.
36. Three small pieces of plastic wrapper.
37. Three pieces of aluminum foil.

The following items were removed from the car at the Forensics Garage:

Sheet of air freshener (Letter A - trunk)

Air freshener sheet - middle of rear seat

Piece of fabric (Pointer #4)

Baby car seat brand name "Eddie Bauer"

Black pair of boots size 5

Black shoes brand name "Mossamo"

The following items are mentioned in the reports but do not have evidence numbers associated with them, so they may still be in the car:

brown belt

sunglasses

black case with CDs

Intermezzo
05-07-2009, 12:44 PM
Haven't gone back in the thread to see if it's been posted but since we are talking about the Pontiac I just wanted to thrown in that in Jesse's statement he tells LE he has never had a copy of keys to Casey's car. And that the only time he has ever had her keys in his hands was when she was right next to him and driving her car.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0408/19129428.pdf Page 13

I know it's a he said she said thing but the She is a known liar and the A's have been recently stating in the Morgan depos that Jesse has keys to the Pontiac.

Luckybuck
05-07-2009, 12:49 PM
I have not read all thru this thread, so if it's been brought up before then please forgive this post. Has anyone inquired about the "black box" on board the Pontiac? I know the computer logs everything and keeps that info stored for hundreds of miles. The Pontiac Service Dealerships have diagnostics that can determine when the car ran out of gas, what was happening at the time, what has happened since, how many miles it's been since the last oil change, etc. Also, if Pontiac is the same as Toyota, the On Board Diagnostics can actually tell what a car was doing (ie: turning, accelorating, how fast, etc) if the owner claims something failed on the car to cause an accident. The mechanics at the dealership do not have access to that info, but the Manufacturer does and can provide detailed info. Wonder if LE brought in a Pontiac expert?

aWEsOMe!!! I had no idea. Is this box standard on all vehicle makes/models? What year was this available on the Pontiac Sunfire? (Can't remember what year hers was)

spqr
05-07-2009, 01:05 PM
I have not read all thru this thread, so if it's been brought up before then please forgive this post. Has anyone inquired about the "black box" on board the Pontiac? I know the computer logs everything and keeps that info stored for hundreds of miles. The Pontiac Service Dealerships have diagnostics that can determine when the car ran out of gas, what was happening at the time, what has happened since, how many miles it's been since the last oil change, etc. Also, if Pontiac is the same as Toyota, the On Board Diagnostics can actually tell what a car was doing (ie: turning, accelorating, how fast, etc) if the owner claims something failed on the car to cause an accident. The mechanics at the dealership do not have access to that info, but the Manufacturer does and can provide detailed info. Wonder if LE brought in a Pontiac expert?


Some of the onboard computers store this information, some do not. It depends on the year and make of the car as to how detailed the information might be. Obviously the newer cars store more onboard dignostics while the older models store troubleshoot codes for "major" events. I know more of the higher end models even store vehicle speed, say at time of crash. So I guess until we have more specifics on the year and model of the Pontiac we can only speculate.

nephers
05-07-2009, 01:07 PM
Some of the onboard computers store this information, some do not. It depends on the year and make of the car as to how detailed the information might be. Obviously the newer cars store more onboard dignostics while the older models store troubleshoot codes for "major" events. I know more of the higher end models even store vehicle speed, say at time of crash. So I guess until we have more specifics on the year and model of the Pontiac we can only speculate.

I believe it is a 1998 Sunfire

DAWN TREADER
05-07-2009, 01:08 PM
It's very possible that Casey was just irresponsible, living in the moment and neglected to go back for the Pontiac for several days.
OR
Casey was working her script to:
A) Have the car stolen
B) Have the car towed to Johnson's
C) Have a prearranged second person pick up the vehicle

In support of plan A
-The Amscot intersection is very busy.
-There are a lot of homeless hanging out and moving about in this area as well as other pedestrians.
( If you want something stolen, this looks like a great spot. If you want to increase your chances of having your car broken into and stolen *leave a bag or other stuff visible, preferably in the front seat* More advice; increase your chances of success by leaving it as long as possible. More exposure that way.)
- There is a CVS across the street, Burger King next door, Sam's Club right behind Amscot and..............a huge GAS STATION right behind AMSCOT:confused::confused:
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY WALK ACROSS THE SAMS CLUB PARKING LOT AND BORROW CAN AND GAS? NO MONEY??
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY ASK TONY FOR A FEW DOLLARS FOR GAS RIGHT THERE? DON'T GAS STATIONS KEEP A CAN THAT YOU CAN BORROW IF YOU LEAVE YOUR LICENSE/MONEY OR SOMETHING?
In support of plan B
- Signs posted in regards to towing. If no one steals it (above) then it goes to the tow yard. There is the excuse for not having my vehicle and needing to borrow someone else's.
Plan C
- Maybe Casey told the truth (:laugh: and her dad was going to pick up the Pontiac. Maybe he recognized the smell right away and knew something terrible had happened. He knew that if he moved that car it would implicate him. He let it go to the tow yard to keep distance between himself and a possible crime. When he picks it up from the tow yard, he asks the attendant to come with him when he opens the trunk....... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

LEAVING THE PONTIAC: IRRESPONSIBLE OR PLANNED???

Brilliant post! :clap:

KenoshaKid
05-07-2009, 01:56 PM
FYI, here is a link to the interview transcript with AL where he's being driven around by police, showing exactly where he picked up KC on June 23 when she ran out of gas. He said the trunk of the car had no strange odor. Very odd.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/030509anthonydiscoverypageslazzaro/indexGallery.htm

I don't think George noticed it at the tow yard, either, until he opened the driver door and it hit him right in the face.

Question about these shoes found in the car:
Black pair of boots size 5
Black shoes brand name "Mossamo"

were they tested as part of the 22 pairs tested for soil samples in the most recent d-dump?

Intermezzo
05-07-2009, 02:12 PM
It's very possible that Casey was just irresponsible, living in the moment and neglected to go back for the Pontiac for several days.
OR
Casey was working her script to:
A) Have the car stolen
B) Have the car towed to Johnson's
C) Have a prearranged second person pick up the vehicle

In support of plan A
-The Amscot intersection is very busy.
-There are a lot of homeless hanging out and moving about in this area as well as other pedestrians.
( If you want something stolen, this looks like a great spot. If you want to increase your chances of having your car broken into and stolen *leave a bag or other stuff visible, preferably in the front seat* More advice; increase your chances of success by leaving it as long as possible. More exposure that way.)
- There is a CVS across the street, Burger King next door, Sam's Club right behind Amscot and..............a huge GAS STATION right behind AMSCOT:confused::confused:
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY WALK ACROSS THE SAMS CLUB PARKING LOT AND BORROW CAN AND GAS? NO MONEY??
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY ASK TONY FOR A FEW DOLLARS FOR GAS RIGHT THERE? DON'T GAS STATIONS KEEP A CAN THAT YOU CAN BORROW IF YOU LEAVE YOUR LICENSE/MONEY OR SOMETHING?
In support of plan B
- Signs posted in regards to towing. If no one steals it (above) then it goes to the tow yard. There is the excuse for not having my vehicle and needing to borrow someone else's.
Plan C
- Maybe Casey told the truth (:laugh: and her dad was going to pick up the Pontiac. Maybe he recognized the smell right away and knew something terrible had happened. He knew that if he moved that car it would implicate him. He let it go to the tow yard to keep distance between himself and a possible crime. When he picks it up from the tow yard, he asks the attendant to come with him when he opens the trunk....... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

LEAVING THE PONTIAC: IRRESPONSIBLE OR PLANNED???

IMO Planned.
The car smelled of decomp. She definitely didn't want to drive TL to the airport in her car.
The gas guage worked properly. She could have easily gotten gas to put in the car, even if it did run out of gas (which I do not believe even with all the great sleuthing on WS about it:)). Yet she tells TL it broke down, if she told him she ran out of gas again, I'm sure he would have laughed, and then went and got gas for her.
I also question the going back with Amy and the newly purchased gas tank.
I think it was just a ruse. Perhaps, if the car was still there she would have allowed Amy to touch it and Voila! fingerprints other than hers on the vehicle, yet IMO she was happy to see the car gone, maybe someone stole it and Voila! more fingerprints. She did not go into the Amscot and inquire about what happened to the car like most would have done.
And as luck has it or not, Casey got 2 more weeks avoiding her family before they were ultimately reunited with the towed car and all hay broke lose

DAWN TREADER
05-07-2009, 02:19 PM
Most damning of all ... leaving Mama, Caylee's beloved baby doll in the car ... tells me Caylee was already dead when the car was abandoned at Amscot.

essies
05-07-2009, 02:44 PM
Most damning of all ... leaving Mama, Caylee's beloved baby doll in the car ... tells me Caylee was already dead when the car was abandoned at Amscot.

I can't imagine how KC rode around with Mama in the carseat! My God, there is no depth to her evil!:devil:

Searchfortruth
05-07-2009, 02:44 PM
...and JWG responded to other questions earlier that are coming up again - although the original questions won't carry w/ the quote...so I'll recreate'em.
What about the Amscot surveilance tapes?

Also reading the NG'ism that Casey drove "round & round" on 6/27AM before abandoning the car. That characterization of what happened is flatly....wrong. Casey's pings indicate she made a trip from Tony's apt. to G&C's and ran out on her way back to Tony's...no detours. No driving around. See the detailed mileage calculated in the post above that explains that she actually ran outta gas.

Also, FWIW. As HP referenced earlier, on the E-Pass thread, and also summarized on the 6/29 Ping thread, if you are interested, you can read the details that support that "the chase" George described to LE actually happened the morning of Sunday, 6/29...just before Casey's first text to Amy that day inquiring about her gas cans. Speculation that Casey was driving Tony's Jeep that morning and making an effort to get gas cans from G&C's again. Driving up to the house George spotted Casey before she could get the gas cans and the chase began. So, Casey went to Plan B=Amy.

IMHO, the available information supports:

Casey ran outta gas @ Amscot, she didn't abandon the car
Casey's texts to Amy in advance prepared Amy for the smell by giving excuses about an animal having been stuck under it
Casey didn't want Tony to investigate the smell, hence, she gave him a story that the car needed repair & George was taking care of it
Casey made attempts to secure gas and recover the car, clearly on 6/30, and very possibly on 6/29
Casey was lax about getting the gas can w/ Amy Monday and as a result, by the time she made it around to Amscot the car had been towed
At precisely the time Casey rounded the corner by Amscot, 4:53PM, and discovered the Pontiac was gone she called Stephanie, believed to be an Amscot employee, and left a vmail or spoke w/ Stephanie for 48seconds.


Other miscellaneous Q's I saw along the way on the thread today:

Casey took Tony to the airport in his Jeep the morning of Monday, 6/30.
Casey showered @ Jesse's 7/1, between 11AM-1PM


Hope that helps.Thank you so much for all of the help ! So now we know that Casey did not drive aimlessly around Amscot, but instead really did run out of gas going from C & G's to Tony's house. My only question w/ that, and there may not be an answer, is I wonder why she didn't call the tow lot. She called Stephanie, an Amscot employee, after seeing that her car was not in the parking lot. I would assume that Stephanie might have been able to tell Casey where they tow cars, or at least given her a number to find out. Was Casey scared to call about her car because of the smell or did she think they would have notified C & G and told them about the car ? Maybe she did call and we have not heard that bit of info yet.

So the incident where George is chasing Casey is on June 29th and Casey was in Tony's jeep, not Cindy's car ? Interesting that in the depo George says the event happened in months prior, a slight change in his story. This should be interesting come trial time because I imagine the state will have this info and question them...it will be hard for them to say that they were not concerned before July 15th, when George is in a high speed chase with his daughter on June 29th.

It's Not the Nanny
05-07-2009, 02:46 PM
Why would she choose the Amscott parking lot on a busy corner that her Mother drove by everyday to work? The Mother she was avoiding like the plague??

I think she would have chosen a more discreet location to abandon the car in hopes to have it stolen or to leave until TonE got back.

Nope, running out of gas right at that busy intersection was just plain dumb luck and poor planning (like properly paying attention to the gas guage!).

Why she didn't attempt to run over to the gas station for help is beyond me. Then again, she lives in 10 min intervals and maybe was in a hurry to get that chicken in the oven. :wink:


Oh, and FWIW, I think the black bag left in the car was actually Cyndi's (per LA during the taped meeting with TonE).

Brini
05-07-2009, 02:46 PM
Couple of questions about the car:

1) Do we know for certain that only Casey was driving/using it around the time it was abandoned?

2) Did the tow company notice/and or note the strong stench from the car when they towed it?

3) Do we know for certain that it was out of gas?

Thanks!

1) We have no evidence, nor report from KC that anyone had access to the car.

2) The tow truck driver said he couldn't tell-- he had a bad cold. The manager noticed the stench, howver.

3) I think GA said he tried to start is, and had to put gas in it.

It's Not the Nanny
05-07-2009, 02:48 PM
Thank you so much for all of the help ! So now we know that Casey did not drive aimlessly around Amscot, but instead really did run out of gas going from C & G's to Tony's house. My only question w/ that, and there may not be an answer, is I wonder why she didn't call the tow lot. She called Stephanie, an Amscot employee, after seeing that her car was not in the parking lot. I would assume that Stephanie might have been able to tell Casey where they tow cars, or at least given her a number to find out. Was Casey scared to call about her car because of the smell or did she think they would have notified C & G and told them about the car ? Maybe she did call and we have not heard that bit of info yet.

So the incident where George is chasing Casey is on June 29th and Casey was in Tony's jeep, not Cindy's car ? Interesting that in the depo George says the event happened in months prior, a slight change in his story. This should be interesting come trial time because I imagine the state will have this info and question them...it will be hard for them to say that they were not concerned before July 15th, when George is in a high speed chase with his daughter on June 29th.


I don't think she attempted to call the tow lot because she didn't have the proper documents to have the car relased to her. She wasn't technically the owner. Cyndi's name was on the title so I'm guessing she had to get the car out and I'm fairly certain KC wasn't about to call and ask for that favor.

natsound
05-07-2009, 02:52 PM
I don't think George noticed it at the tow yard, either, until he opened the driver door and it hit him right in the face.



snipped

Right, but the trunk was open on the 23rd when AL picked her up on the side of the road. In any event, KC noticed the smell on the 24th, when she texted Amy about the smell.

Brini
05-07-2009, 02:53 PM
Thank you so much for all of the help ! So now we know that Casey did not drive aimlessly around Amscot, but instead really did run out of gas going from C & G's to Tony's house. My only question w/ that, and there may not be an answer, is I wonder why she didn't call the tow lot. She called Stephanie, an Amscot employee, after seeing that her car was not in the parking lot. I would assume that Stephanie might have been able to tell Casey where they tow cars, or at least given her a number to find out. Was Casey scared to call about her car because of the smell or did she think they would have notified C & G and told them about the car ? Maybe she did call and we have not heard that bit of info yet.

So the incident where George is chasing Casey is on June 29th and Casey was in Tony's jeep, not Cindy's car ? Interesting that in the depo George says the event happened in months prior, a slight change in his story. This should be interesting come trial time because I imagine the state will have this info and question them...it will be hard for them to say that they were not concerned before July 15th, when George is in a high speed chase with his daughter on June 29th.

Yes. IIHO:

1) KC was scared to tell her folks about the car because of the smell.

2) She also thought they would call C&G.

3) But, she did not call a tow truck. LE did not find any attempt to get the car anyplace productive.


She likely didn't plan to dispose of the car, at that point. But, hey! It's at the tow yard.

Out of sight, out of mind! That's our KC! Maybe it will just disappear, in there! PARTY TIME!

Brini
05-07-2009, 02:55 PM
snipped

Right, but the trunk was open on the 23rd when AL picked her up on the side of the road. In any event, KC noticed the smell on the 24th, when she texted Amy about the smell.

AL said that when he picked her up, she was standing a bit away from the car, with her stolen groceries.

Brini
05-07-2009, 02:56 PM
Thank you so much for all of the help ! So now we know that Casey did not drive aimlessly around Amscot, but instead really did run out of gas going from C & G's to Tony's house. My only question w/ that, and there may not be an answer, is I wonder why she didn't call the tow lot. She called Stephanie, an Amscot employee, after seeing that her car was not in the parking lot. I would assume that Stephanie might have been able to tell Casey where they tow cars, or at least given her a number to find out. Was Casey scared to call about her car because of the smell or did she think they would have notified C & G and told them about the car ? Maybe she did call and we have not heard that bit of info yet.

So the incident where George is chasing Casey is on June 29th and Casey was in Tony's jeep, not Cindy's car ? Interesting that in the depo George says the event happened in months prior, a slight change in his story. This should be interesting come trial time because I imagine the state will have this info and question them...it will be hard for them to say that they were not concerned before July 15th, when George is in a high speed chase with his daughter on June 29th.

Yeah, the ping maps did not show that car chase happening when GA said it did.

brownflower
05-07-2009, 02:57 PM
FYI Jewish people get buried 24 hours later unless it is on the Sabbath (Saturday) then they are refrigerated and buried on a Sunday. NOT 3 days.
Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't sure. When I was in high school I had a lot of Jewish friends and would attend their ceremonies. But, I didn't fully understand all of the traditions.

natsound
05-07-2009, 02:59 PM
AL said that when he picked her up, she was standing a bit away from the car, with her stolen groceries.


No, I'm talking about the instance when AL picked her up on the side of the road, and actually helped her put gas in her car. The link is in one of my posts above.

According to my notes, this incident took place on June 23. The Amscot out-of-gas incident took place on the 26th.

Brini
05-07-2009, 03:01 PM
No, I'm talking about the instance when AL picked her up on the side of the road, and actually helped her put gas in her car. The link is in one of my posts above.

I see. Thanks!

I can't answer THAT one, because I'm a little confused from the flu, this morning (No, not THAT flu!) ;-)

brownflower
05-07-2009, 03:03 PM
Casey is not that dumb. She didn't let the LE trick her into confessing to a crime that she did not commit.



That is not about how smart she is. I am sure that GA told her if you did not do anything do not allow them to trick you into any confessions, Or you will never get out.
But Casey smart :nono: :nono: :nono: I think she is a :cheesehead2:

Ha! Ha! That was one of my tongue in cheek jokes. :)

Shorty
05-07-2009, 03:13 PM
In Germany (I am from there) we do not embalm we do keep a body for 3 days for viewing and then it has to be buried. If it runs into the weekend then it has to be buried prior to those 3 days or be refrigerated. No buriel on Sunday. At least that's how it was when I was there. Now I have been gone for a while things might be different today.

brownflower
05-07-2009, 03:18 PM
Most damning of all ... leaving Mama, Caylee's beloved baby doll in the car ... tells me Caylee was already dead when the car was abandoned at Amscot.
So sad yet so true.

brownflower
05-07-2009, 03:21 PM
Thank you so much for all of the help ! So now we know that Casey did not drive aimlessly around Amscot, but instead really did run out of gas going from C & G's to Tony's house.
The pings do prove that Casey circled around Amscot several times before leaving the car there.

brownflower
05-07-2009, 03:24 PM
In Germany (I am from there) we do not embalm we do keep a body for 3 days for viewing and then it has to be buried. If it runs into the weekend then it has to be buried prior to those 3 days or be refrigerated. No buriel on Sunday. At least that's how it was when I was there. Now I have been gone for a while things might be different today.
Thank you for this post. How did they keep the body from smelling for 3 days? Would they refrigerate it at night?

Perhaps the car didn't smell so bad when Tony picked Casey up because she had all those air freshener sheets in the car. She had 5 in the trunk and at least one in the middle of the back seat.

The air freshener sheets probably worked at first but, over time were ineffective in masking the odor because it was growing stronger and stronger. Even though Caylee's body was no longer in the car, her bodily fluids were. :(

JMO

Sorry for so many posts in a row! I have to go now. Will check back later this evening.

Thanks for all the great posts everyone!

Searchfortruth
05-07-2009, 03:56 PM
Thank you for this post. How did they keep the body from smelling for 3 days? Would they refrigerate it at night?

Perhaps the car didn't smell so bad when Tony picked Casey up because she had all those air freshener sheets in the car. She had 5 in the trunk and at least one in the middle of the back seat.

The air freshener sheets probably worked at first but, over time were ineffective in masking the odor because it was growing stronger and stronger. Even though Caylee's body was no longer in the car, her bodily fluids were. :(

JMO

Sorry for so many posts in a row! I have to go now. Will check back later this evening.

Thanks for all the great posts everyone!I would like to know if Tony ever noticed a bad smell on Casey's clothes...?

BondJamesBond
05-07-2009, 04:17 PM
Thank you so much for all of the help ! So now we know that Casey did not drive aimlessly around Amscot, but instead really did run out of gas going from C & G's to Tony's house. My only question w/ that, and there may not be an answer, is I wonder why she didn't call the tow lot. She called Stephanie, an Amscot employee, after seeing that her car was not in the parking lot. I would assume that Stephanie might have been able to tell Casey where they tow cars, or at least given her a number to find out. Was Casey scared to call about her car because of the smell or did she think they would have notified C & G and told them about the car ? Maybe she did call and we have not heard that bit of info yet.

Glad to help. I can only guess why she didn't follow-up on the Pontiac.

She had no money
She was concerned 'bout being tagged w/ the car in her control w/ the decomp smell (as you indicated)
She was kinda glad to be rid of it (e.g. outta sight = outta mind)
It gave her an excuse to borrow Tony's Jeep


Had Casey thought to distance herself from the car somehow ~6/19 or 6/20 and called 911 reporting a carjacking w/ Caylee in the seat...after the body had been disposed, yet, before the smell had become immediately noticeable...she' would have had a shot @ getting away with it, IMHO.

After the decomp smell began ramping up...the car was a difficult liability. Casey seemed to consistently approach challenges w/ a defer & delay strategy.


So the incident where George is chasing Casey is on June 29th and Casey was in Tony's jeep, not Cindy's car ? Interesting that in the depo George says the event happened in months prior, a slight change in his story. This should be interesting come trial time because I imagine the state will have this info and question them...it will be hard for them to say that they were not concerned before July 15th, when George is in a high speed chase with his daughter on June 29th.

Well...some independent information gives us a reasonable case to make for the chase happening 6/29, IMHO. This one is easy for LE to resolve, IMHO. "So...happened months ago, eh? OK...lets just get THOSE EPass records. I'm sure that'll take care of it...won't it?"

MysticOne
05-07-2009, 04:44 PM
Glad to help. I can only guess why she didn't follow-up on the Pontiac.

Well...some independent information gives us a reasonable case to make for the chase happening 6/29, IMHO. This one is easy for LE to resolve, IMHO. "So...happened months ago, eh? OK...lets just get THOSE EPass records. I'm sure that'll take care of it...won't it?"

snipped for space by me.......

I have been wondering about this supposed car chase since it came out in GA's interview with LE. Now, with the new information I have to wonder, if CA was in TL's jeep when GA gave chase, how would the E-Pass records verify it was this particular chase and not just GA driving in his normal course of activities? I can understand if CA's car was also involved, then both records could be verified as to the time they BOTH went through the toll booth at approximately the same time on the same date, but did TL have an E-Pass account? If not, how could this chase scene actually be verified to have occurred on the 29th (or any date following the disappearance)?

wenwe4
05-07-2009, 04:52 PM
aWEsOMe!!! I had no idea. Is this box standard on all vehicle makes/models? What year was this available on the Pontiac Sunfire? (Can't remember what year hers was)

Toyota started putting black boxes (On Board Diagnostics - OBD) circa 1996 or 97. Of course those older models werent as sophisticated as ones made today . . . however, they did record everything that happenend when the check engine lights come on and keep that info for many hundreds of miles and continue to do so today. I imagine every car maker has incorporated this technology by now, especially if they can fight against accusations of failure of the car (ie running out of gas is not the car's failure but a subsequent reaction to the failuare of the driver to put gas in!)

travelgal
05-07-2009, 04:53 PM
That is not about how smart she is. I am sure that GA told her if you did not do anything do not allow them to trick you into any confessions, Or you will never get out.
But Casey smart :nono: :nono: :nono: I think she is a :cheesehead2:

ITA Songline! Casey is not smart enough to plan an ingenious scheme or cover-up. SHE IS A LIAR plain & simple! I believe her lies allow her to feel in control of the situation. She is all about getting control of her life since she had very little control of her life under CA's thumb. Power & Control vs. Cindy!

wenwe4
05-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Some of the onboard computers store this information, some do not. It depends on the year and make of the car as to how detailed the information might be. Obviously the newer cars store more onboard dignostics while the older models store troubleshoot codes for "major" events. I know more of the higher end models even store vehicle speed, say at time of crash. So I guess until we have more specifics on the year and model of the Pontiac we can only speculate.

I agree with you and I have only info on Toyota/Lexus/Scion - don't know about Pontiac and 1998 is really early for this technology . . . but, it might be worth asking the questions . . . .

Imbackon
05-07-2009, 04:59 PM
snipped

Right, but the trunk was open on the 23rd when AL picked her up on the side of the road. In any event, KC noticed the smell on the 24th, when she texted Amy about the smell.
In the interview with Tony where he talks about this event, he specifically says that KC poured the gas herself and he was not that close to the trunk nor did he see much into the trunk.
I am at work, so can't source the info now.

Rumpole
05-07-2009, 04:59 PM
Glad to help. I can only guess why she didn't follow-up on the Pontiac.

She had no money
She was concerned 'bout being tagged w/ the car in her control w/ the decomp smell (as you indicated)
She was kinda glad to be rid of it (e.g. outta sight = outta mind)
It gave her an excuse to borrow Tony's Jeep


Had Casey thought to distance herself from the car somehow ~6/19 or 6/20 and called 911 reporting a carjacking w/ Caylee in the seat...after the body had been disposed, yet, before the smell had become immediately noticeable...she' would have had a shot @ getting away with it, IMHO.

After the decomp smell began ramping up...the car was a difficult liability. Casey seemed to consistently approach challenges w/ a defer & delay strategy.



Well...some independent information gives us a reasonable case to make for the chase happening 6/29, IMHO. This one is easy for LE to resolve, IMHO. "So...happened months ago, eh? OK...lets just get THOSE EPass records. I'm sure that'll take care of it...won't it?"

One thing I would add to the list is:
KC's transport problem solved temporarily with use of AL jeep and then Amy's car. Getting the Pontiac less of a priority.

travelgal
05-07-2009, 05:03 PM
I have not read all thru this thread, so if it's been brought up before then please forgive this post. Has anyone inquired about the "black box" on board the Pontiac? I know the computer logs everything and keeps that info stored for hundreds of miles. The Pontiac Service Dealerships have diagnostics that can determine when the car ran out of gas, what was happening at the time, what has happened since, how many miles it's been since the last oil change, etc. Also, if Pontiac is the same as Toyota, the On Board Diagnostics can actually tell what a car was doing (ie: turning, accelorating, how fast, etc) if the owner claims something failed on the car to cause an accident. The mechanics at the dealership do not have access to that info, but the Manufacturer does and can provide detailed info. Wonder if LE brought in a Pontiac expert?

WOW! Very interesting, wenwe4! I didn't know that kind of data can be found right on the car and cars have "black boxes" ?? :eek: That could provide a lot of info I would think. (I know nothing about vehicles other than the basics.)

wenwe4
05-07-2009, 05:20 PM
WOW! Very interesting, wenwe4! I didn't know that kind of data can be found right on the car and cars have "black boxes" ?? :eek: That could provide a lot of info I would think. (I know nothing about vehicles other than the basics.)

There's a possiblity of a lot of info, but no guarantees. I know the OBD is able to be read by another computer at the specific manufacturers dealerships. For instance, Toyota mechanics can plug into toyota cars with their diagnostic computer and they will receive code. After receiving the code data, the dealerships are the only ones who have the actual "code book", a Mom & Pop Mechanics shop could only identify a few codes but not all of them. That's why smaller shops end up throwing parts on one after the other because they only get a little bit of data, like fuel probleem, but not the actual info on which part in the fuel system is not working. Even the dealerships are ONLY able to diagnose when the check engine lights come on. Where the manufacturer has all of the codes for all of the data that is stored on black box, including how far the seat was away from the steering wheel, what adjustments the mirrors are set at, what the temp was in the cab and for the engine, etc. . . .

BondJamesBond
05-07-2009, 05:26 PM
snipped for space by me.......

I have been wondering about this supposed car chase since it came out in GA's interview with LE. Now, with the new information I have to wonder, if CA was in TL's jeep when GA gave chase, how would the E-Pass records verify it was this particular chase and not just GA driving in his normal course of activities? I can understand if CA's car was also involved, then both records could be verified as to the time they BOTH went through the toll booth at approximately the same time on the same date, but did TL have an E-Pass account? If not, how could this chase scene actually be verified to have occurred on the 29th (or any date following the disappearance)?

Great question, MysticOne. The details are on the EPass thread, but, to answer here from memory, JWG checked the tollbooths that George went through 6/29AM and...

a) they matched the route George gave in his account of the chase, and
b) the calculated rate of speed for George (distance between booths / timestamp differences when passing through them) resulted in something like 86mph driving speed

natsound
05-07-2009, 05:30 PM
In the interview with Tony where he talks about this event, he specifically says that KC poured the gas herself and he was not that close to the trunk nor did he see much into the trunk.
I am at work, so can't source the info now.

Yes she poured the gas herself, but he stood right by the gas cap on her car. IIRC he says he might have been able to see into the corner of the trunk, but he didn't pay much attention. He was close enough to smell something.

RR0004
05-07-2009, 05:42 PM
There's a possiblity of a lot of info, but no guarantees. I know the OBD is able to be read by another computer at the specific manufacturers dealerships. For instance, Toyota mechanics can plug into toyota cars with their diagnostic computer and they will receive code. After receiving the code data, the dealerships are the only ones who have the actual "code book", a Mom & Pop Mechanics shop could only identify a few codes but not all of them. That's why smaller shops end up throwing parts on one after the other because they only get a little bit of data, like fuel probleem, but not the actual info on which part in the fuel system is not working. Even the dealerships are ONLY able to diagnose when the check engine lights come on. Where the manufacturer has all of the codes for all of the data that is stored on black box, including how far the seat was away from the steering wheel, what adjustments the mirrors are set at, what the temp was in the cab and for the engine, etc. . . .
I think the car may have been too old a model...but I also know very little about cars.

natsound
05-07-2009, 06:01 PM
In the interview with Tony where he talks about this event, he specifically says that KC poured the gas herself and he was not that close to the trunk nor did he see much into the trunk.
I am at work, so can't source the info now.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/030509anthonydiscoverypageslazzaro/1/lg/3846-3901-1_Page_26.htm

Here's the link. Start on page 26. The only strange thing KC did was insist on pouring the gas herself, and her trunk was actually closed when she poured the gas, but she opened it back up to put the gas cans in the trunk, and TonE never saw more than a corner of the trunk lining.

RR0004
05-07-2009, 06:15 PM
Great question, MysticOne. The details are on the EPass thread, but, to answer here from memory, JWG checked the tollbooths that George went through 6/29AM and...

a) they matched the route George gave in his account of the chase, and
b) the calculated rate of speed for George (distance between booths / timestamp differences when passing through them) resulted in something like 86mph driving speed
Is this the chase GA denies having happened in June?

BondJamesBond
05-07-2009, 07:10 PM
Is this the chase GA denies having happened in June?

At first he insisted it happened, although he wasn't quite certain of the timing. He thought it was around the time of the gas can incident (6/24), but, wasn't sure. That is why he offered that the EPass records could be used to pinpoint the date and verify that it happened. He was so emphatic that he went to LE and told them that even though Cindy wouldn't corroborate his story - it really did happen.

More recently, G&C are denying this happened in June...opting for it being months earlier.

Rumpole
05-07-2009, 07:14 PM
At first he insisted it happened, although he wasn't quite certain of the timing. He thought it was around the time of the gas can incident (6/24), but, wasn't sure. That is why he offered that the EPass records could be used to pinpoint the date and verify that it happened. He was so emphatic that he went to LE and told them that even though Cindy wouldn't corroborate his story - it really did happen.

More recently, G&C are denying this happened in June...opting for it being months earlier.

George and Cindy both denied it strongly in their respective depositions. Made a point of denying it and for once both had the same new story. I wonder why?

Is there something very important that it points to if the event happened as we thought? Why do they feel the need to deny it?

BondJamesBond
05-07-2009, 07:19 PM
George and Cindy both denied it strongly in their respective depositions. Made a point of denying it and for once both had the same new story. I wonder why?

Is there something very important that it points to if the event happened as we thought? Why do they feel the need to deny it?

IMHO..."a chase" is evidence of Casey's willful evasive actions that were characteristic of her behaviour. Cindy's MySpace epistle...Lee's club-caper...George's chase...

Casey was eluding every single member of the family, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Why? Why did Casey flee? What did she have to hide?

Rumpole
05-07-2009, 07:23 PM
IMHO..."a chase" is evidence of Casey's willful evasive actions that were characteristic of her behaviour. Cindy's MySpace epistle...Lee's club-caper...George's chase...

Casey was eluding every single member of the family, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Why? Why did Casey flee? What did she have to hide?

:clap:

Ok!
You got the job.
You do the closing arguement for the Prosecution.:woohoo:

reeseeva
05-07-2009, 07:28 PM
George and Cindy both denied it strongly in their respective depositions. Made a point of denying it and for once both had the same new story. I wonder why?

Is there something very important that it points to if the event happened as we thought? Why do they feel the need to deny it?

It doesn't fit with the rest of the Avalanche of lies they have concocted: :furious:


IMHO..."a chase" is evidence of Casey's willful evasive actions that were characteristic of her behaviour. Cindy's MySpace epistle...Lee's club-caper...George's chase...

They will rehearse and rehearse, and perjure themselves, whatever it takes!

Casey was eluding every single member of the family, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Why? Why did Casey flee? What did she have to hide?

MysticOne
05-07-2009, 07:30 PM
Great question, MysticOne. The details are on the EPass thread, but, to answer here from memory, JWG checked the tollbooths that George went through 6/29AM and...

a) they matched the route George gave in his account of the chase, and
b) the calculated rate of speed for George (distance between booths / timestamp differences when passing through them) resulted in something like 86mph driving speed


Wow, WSers TOTALLY ROCK, you leave no stone unturned and no question unanswered.

Thanks for the great info! :clap:

CBTampa
05-07-2009, 07:44 PM
Great question, MysticOne. The details are on the EPass thread, but, to answer here from memory, JWG checked the tollbooths that George went through 6/29AM and...

a) they matched the route George gave in his account of the chase, and
b) the calculated rate of speed for George (distance between booths / timestamp differences when passing through them) resulted in something like 86mph driving speed

What date was on the EPass records?

CBTampa
05-07-2009, 07:47 PM
What date was on the EPass records?


Never mind...I see the date now after re-reading your post.

natsound
05-07-2009, 07:50 PM
George and Cindy both denied it strongly in their respective depositions. Made a point of denying it and for once both had the same new story. I wonder why?

Is there something very important that it points to if the event happened as we thought? Why do they feel the need to deny it?

Ugh, how frustrating. I understand GA and CA in denial about what KC has done. But to backtrack and change your story after everything that's happened in this case.... I just have to reapeat... **ugh**

debbie0604
05-07-2009, 10:33 PM
Hey Mamabear & Debbie0604:

Do you know the date that she stopped by JG's for the shower? I can't find the link right now but I seem to remember that was an entirely different day. I could be totally off base here since my memory plays tricks on me sometimes. I think that "shower day" occurred after Tony was gone and she was floating from place to place. Didn't she tell Jesse that she couldn't get in Tony's apt?? I stand corrected if I am wrong. Thanks! :blowkiss:
If you go back and read RG's interview with the police, he states that he thought that KC was coming over, taking a shower there to try to implicate JG.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Grund,%20Richard-0905.pdf

RG: And I said, "Jesse, donít you find it odd that Casey shows up at ten thirty in the morning and needs to take a shower?" I said, "What do you think she was doing there?" "Well I think she was trying to seduce me." "Well whatíd you do?" And he said, "I got away from her and played X-Box." And I said, "Son, I donít think thatís what she was doing." He said, "What do you think she was doing?" I said, "I think she was looking for something of yours and if she needs a scapegoat youíre going to be it. She was in your shower. She was in your bathroom. She could have taken a, a pair of underwear. She could have taken some hair." I said, "You haveÖ" At that point he didnít think she was that diabolical. I did. There was no reason for her to be there at that time of morning.

IMO, I think that KC showed up at JG house to take a shower to get the smell off of her. I also think that she was ditching the car, hoping that her dad or mom would get it and do something about the smell (at the same time trying to pass the smell off as a "dead animal.") I don't think she wanted the car back (not with the smell anyway). For one thing, she's a girl who likes being around guys and partying... she's not going to want to go out partying in a stinky car. She thought that her dad "would take care of it" and not ask questions about the smell, and she could pass it off as a dead animal.

Also, if you listen to this brief interview with RG and LE:

http://www.youtube.com/user/NifterMedia

RG states that he doesn't buy the "whole car broke down thing." He said that he "doesn't see anywhere in the report from Johnson's that the car was out of gas, but GA showed up with two tanks full of gas to pick up the car."

IMO, I just think she ditched the car because of the smell. That's just my opinion.

MDdetective
05-07-2009, 11:30 PM
*snipped for space*

Thanks, Brownflower. You've clearly invested some time & effort in putting all of that together.

I'm curious if you can help me see how you distinguish from the pings that Casey was circling vs. stationary. I don't know how to do that and would love to learn. Can you tell what route she was taking as she circled? Back and forth between JBPark & Amscot? TIA!



FWIW, TH, if I understand the series you are referring to ~1:16-1:27PM, those are text message exchanges between Casey & Jenna.

forgive me but who is Jenna ??? :confused:

sumbunny
05-07-2009, 11:36 PM
forgive me but who is Jenna ??? :confused:

I'm not 100% sure, but I do believe it was a shot girl at fusian.

Searchfortruth
05-07-2009, 11:42 PM
Ugh, how frustrating. I understand GA and CA in denial about what KC has done. But to backtrack and change your story after everything that's happened in this case.... I just have to reapeat... **ugh**I guess they don't care about being called out on their lies at trial...it's all about protecting the image. I wish someone would tell them that there is no image left to protect.

Jolynna
05-07-2009, 11:52 PM
If you go back and read RG's interview with the police, he states that he thought that KC was coming over, taking a shower there to try to implicate JG.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Grund,%20Richard-0905.pdf

RG: And I said, "Jesse, don’t you find it odd that Casey shows up at ten thirty in the morning and needs to take a shower?" I said, "What do you think she was doing there?" "Well I think she was trying to seduce me." "Well what’d you do?" And he said, "I got away from her and played X-Box." And I said, "Son, I don’t think that’s what she was doing." He said, "What do you think she was doing?" I said, "I think she was looking for something of yours and if she needs a scapegoat you’re going to be it. She was in your shower. She was in your bathroom. She could have taken a, a pair of underwear. She could have taken some hair." I said, "You have…" At that point he didn’t think she was that diabolical. I did. There was no reason for her to be there at that time of morning.

IMO, I think that KC showed up at JG house to take a shower to get the smell off of her. I also think that she was ditching the car, hoping that her dad or mom would get it and do something about the smell (at the same time trying to pass the smell off as a "dead animal.") I don't think she wanted the car back (not with the smell anyway). For one thing, she's a girl who likes being around guys and partying... she's not going to want to go out partying in a stinky car. She thought that her dad "would take care of it" and not ask questions about the smell, and she could pass it off as a dead animal.

Also, if you listen to this brief interview with RG and LE:

http://www.youtube.com/user/NifterMedia

RG states that he doesn't buy the "whole car broke down thing." He said that he "doesn't see anywhere in the report from Johnson's that the car was out of gas, but GA showed up with two tanks full of gas to pick up the car."

IMO, I just think she ditched the car because of the smell. That's just my opinion.

At first I thought your theory of Casey needing to shower off a bad smell was impossible because Casey's car was towed on June 30 and Casey took her shower at JG's on July 1. Also according to Amy, Casey spent June 30-July 1 with her. (June 30-July 4 Amy thinks Casey spent every single night with her [232 N Glenwood Ave Orlando, FL 32803]
Page 1045 Lines 13-17 Amy H. Interview with LE on 7/23/2008 (http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/ah092308.pdf) RM says Casey was at his apartment with Amy June 30-July 1.

But, Casey's phone pings don't back up RM's or Amy's recollections. So I went to each day's threads to see what had been found out.


FROM THE CASE CALENDAR:

Casey's pings on June 30:
12:54 to 12:56 am - cell towers ping near AL's apt until . . .
9:17 am - cell towers ping near RM/AH's apt until . . .
4:51 pm - cell towers ping near old Cheney Highway until . . .
4:56 pm - cell towers ping near AL's apt until . . .
5:28 pm - cell towers ping near RM/AH's apt until . . .
7:21 pm - cell towers ping near Fusion and multiple locations near there until very early in the morning 7/1/2008

July 1 phone pings:

11:20 pm near Union Park Drive (3.7 mi from Fusion). There's a gap in the calls between 11:20 pm and 1:10 am when the phone pings near the Spur Road tower (3.8 mi from Fusion), then back to the Union Park Dr tower (3.7 mi from Fusion). By 2:25 the tower by Alafaya Trail in Bithlo pings, which is 5.7 miles from Fusion. Yet, by 2:26 (about a minute later) the tower near Newburg St in Wedgefield pings, which is 13 miles from Fusion.

AF

Then there's about a 2 hour gap and at 4:24, the tower by Alafaya Trail S in Tala Apopka pings, which is 17.5 mi from Fusion. Then about a two and a half hour gap with no cellular activity followed by cellular activity for which no towers are listed - from 6:56 am to 7:51 am.

By 7:51 am the cell pings at the Windmill Ridge Loop tower, which is 3.5 miles from Fusion, then back to Alafaya. There is about an hour and a half gap but the next ping is at the same place at 9:34 am. At 9:48 the Windmill Ridge Loop tower pings again, then 42 seconds later, the tower at Tanner Rd S pings, which is 4.2 mi from Fusion. Two seconds later, the Windmill Ridge Loop tower pings. By 9:59 am, the pings again hit the Spur Road tower.

This tower is not only near Fusion, it's 2.1 mi from JG's.

By 10:15 am, KC's phone is pinging a tower on Purlieu Place near AL's apt while she is calling JG. It then pings a few more towers by AL's, then pings from Spur Rd from 10:39 to 11:05 am. Again, this tower is 2.1 miles from JG.

The pings then hit towers at Union Park Dr, Palmetto Ave N and by 11:10, back to Spur Rd where the pings continue until 12:56 pm. At 1:13, the cell pings the tower on Palmetto again, near AL's apt until 2:40 pm, when the pings hit the tower on Robinson St E, 0.4 mi from RM/AH's apt.

Pings continue at that location until 5:00 pm when towers on Old Cheney Highway, Chickasaw, and Union Park receive pings. May indicate traveling around, and by 5:28 pings are picked up at Lake Underhill Road, 1.5 mi from Fusion. By 5:34 the pings hit a tower on Econlockhatchee Trl S, Goldenrod, and Renwick, all near the Anthony family home.

There is an hour gap between the ping at Econlockhatchee Trail and Goldenrod (5:35 to 6:33 pm), but pings continue near the Anthony home until 8:57 pm, when cell towers near Fusion (Lake Underhill Rd) begin pinging and continue at that location until 11:50 pm.

From 11:50 pm until 11:58 pm, cell towers at Econlockhatchee, Chickasaw, and Curry Ford ping (indicating travel IMO). At 11:58 pm, the towers near RM/AH's apt are pinged and continue pinging past midnight into the next day.

JWG's research on Casey's Activities June 30:

4:30 PM (approx)


Amy leaves for work

4:40 to 4:55 PM


KC drives to Amscot. May have left a few minutes earlier to fill gas cans if not done already.

4:55 PM


Arrives at Amscot, notices car is not there, keeps heading north on Goldenrod (this is lone ping to CID=2)
KC must be wondering what has happened to the car, but without missing a beat she pings Matt C. and invites him to Fusian. Possibly heading north past Crane's Landing made her think of him. First time all day she contacted him.

4:55 to 5:15 PM


Drives to JC Penney at Fashion Square, taking N. Goldenrod to University to S. Semoran to E. Colonial.

5:15 to 6:15 PM


At JC Penney. 6:10 PM $73.40 charge (page 1432). Purchase memento?

6:15 to 6:20 PM


Travel to Ric / Amy's

6:20 to 7:00 PM


Shower and get ready for a night at Fusian

7:00 to 7:15 PM


Travel to location E or SE of Blanchard Park for dinner. Possible destinations include a couple of Subways or Ale House at Waterford Lakes. Definitely in this area at this time, NOT at Blanchard Park. Likely location is Ale House.

7:15 to 8:00 PM


Eat dinner - Ale House ?

8:00 to 8:10 PM


Travel to Caylee site. ????????

8:10 to 8:25 PM


Visit Caylee site. Leave memento purchased at JC Penney? Hardly seems focused on the purpose, as she texts repeatedly with Chris S. and then Clint H. during this time. ?????

8:25 PM to 8:45 PM


Travel from Caylee site to Target at Waterford Lakes - a round-about route.
North to University Blvd. - several roads possible.
East on University to N. Alafaya Trail - she is going by Jesse G.'s - a familiar and comforting person
South on N. Alafaya Trail
Park at Target
This is an odd route, but cell pings from tower near JG clearly show she drove clockwise around the tower!

8:45 to 9:00 PM


Shop at Target
At Target. 8:56 PM $7.49 cash (page 1432). Purchase ?

9:00 to 9:05 PM


Travel to Fusian

9:05 to Midnight


At Fusian
Frequent texts with Andy F., who lives in Bithlo area.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3015019&postcount=20

JWG's research of July 1 pings:

Midnight to 2:10 AM


At Fusian. Initially lots of texts with Tony and the "shot girl", later with Andy F.

2:10 to 2:25 AM


Drive to Andy F. parent's home

2:25 to 9:45 AM


At Andy F. parent's home

9:45 to 10:15 AM


Drive to AL: Avalon Park Blvd to E. Colonial to N. Goldenrod to University Blvd.

10:15 to 10:30 AM


At AL's

10:30 to 10:40 AM


Drive to JG via University (pings noth side of "Caylee's tower" along the way)



Casey shows up at door at 10:39 AM (page 1522)

BondJamesBond
05-08-2009, 12:11 AM
forgive me but who is Jenna ??? :confused:


I'm not 100% sure, but I do believe it was a shot girl at fusian.

Sumbunny's right. Jenna P. was the blonde "shot girl" so oft' seen in the pics w/ Casey @ Fusian.

spqr
05-08-2009, 12:28 AM
At first I thought your theory of Casey needing to shower off a bad smell was impossible because Casey's car was towed on June 30 and Casey took her shower at JG's on July 1. Also according to Amy, Casey spent June 30-July 1 with her. (June 30-July 4 Amy thinks Casey spent every single night with her [232 N Glenwood Ave Orlando, FL 32803]
Page 1045 Lines 13-17 Amy H. Interview with LE on 7/23/2008 (http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/ah092308.pdf) RM says Casey was at his apartment with Amy June 30-July 1.

But, Casey's phone pings don't back up RM's or Amy's recollections. So I went to each day's threads to see what had been found out.


FROM THE CASE CALENDAR:

Casey's pings on June 30:
12:54 to 12:56 am - cell towers ping near AL's apt until . . .
9:17 am - cell towers ping near RM/AH's apt until . . .
4:51 pm - cell towers ping near old Cheney Highway until . . .
4:56 pm - cell towers ping near AL's apt until . . .
5:28 pm - cell towers ping near RM/AH's apt until . . .
7:21 pm - cell towers ping near Fusion and multiple locations near there until very early in the morning 7/1/2008

July 1 phone pings:

11:20 pm near Union Park Drive (3.7 mi from Fusion). There's a gap in the calls between 11:20 pm and 1:10 am when the phone pings near the Spur Road tower (3.8 mi from Fusion), then back to the Union Park Dr tower (3.7 mi from Fusion). By 2:25 the tower by Alafaya Trail in Bithlo pings, which is 5.7 miles from Fusion. Yet, by 2:26 (about a minute later) the tower near Newburg St in Wedgefield pings, which is 13 miles from Fusion.

AF

Then there's about a 2 hour gap and at 4:24, the tower by Alafaya Trail S in Tala Apopka pings, which is 17.5 mi from Fusion. Then about a two and a half hour gap with no cellular activity followed by cellular activity for which no towers are listed - from 6:56 am to 7:51 am.

By 7:51 am the cell pings at the Windmill Ridge Loop tower, which is 3.5 miles from Fusion, then back to Alafaya. There is about an hour and a half gap but the next ping is at the same place at 9:34 am. At 9:48 the Windmill Ridge Loop tower pings again, then 42 seconds later, the tower at Tanner Rd S pings, which is 4.2 mi from Fusion. Two seconds later, the Windmill Ridge Loop tower pings. By 9:59 am, the pings again hit the Spur Road tower.

This tower is not only near Fusion, it's 2.1 mi from JG's.

By 10:15 am, KC's phone is pinging a tower on Purlieu Place near AL's apt while she is calling JG. It then pings a few more towers by AL's, then pings from Spur Rd from 10:39 to 11:05 am. Again, this tower is 2.1 miles from JG.

The pings then hit towers at Union Park Dr, Palmetto Ave N and by 11:10, back to Spur Rd where the pings continue until 12:56 pm. At 1:13, the cell pings the tower on Palmetto again, near AL's apt until 2:40 pm, when the pings hit the tower on Robinson St E, 0.4 mi from RM/AH's apt.

Pings continue at that location until 5:00 pm when towers on Old Cheney Highway, Chickasaw, and Union Park receive pings. May indicate traveling around, and by 5:28 pings are picked up at Lake Underhill Road, 1.5 mi from Fusion. By 5:34 the pings hit a tower on Econlockhatchee Trl S, Goldenrod, and Renwick, all near the Anthony family home.

There is an hour gap between the ping at Econlockhatchee Trail and Goldenrod (5:35 to 6:33 pm), but pings continue near the Anthony home until 8:57 pm, when cell towers near Fusion (Lake Underhill Rd) begin pinging and continue at that location until 11:50 pm.

From 11:50 pm until 11:58 pm, cell towers at Econlockhatchee, Chickasaw, and Curry Ford ping (indicating travel IMO). At 11:58 pm, the towers near RM/AH's apt are pinged and continue pinging past midnight into the next day.

JWG's research on Casey's Activities June 30:

4:30 PM (approx)


Amy leaves for work

4:40 to 4:55 PM


KC drives to Amscot. May have left a few minutes earlier to fill gas cans if not done already.

4:55 PM


Arrives at Amscot, notices car is not there, keeps heading north on Goldenrod (this is lone ping to CID=2)
KC must be wondering what has happened to the car, but without missing a beat she pings Matt C. and invites him to Fusian. Possibly heading north past Crane's Landing made her think of him. First time all day she contacted him.

4:55 to 5:15 PM


Drives to JC Penney at Fashion Square, taking N. Goldenrod to University to S. Semoran to E. Colonial.

5:15 to 6:15 PM


At JC Penney. 6:10 PM $73.40 charge (page 1432). Purchase memento?

6:15 to 6:20 PM


Travel to Ric / Amy's

6:20 to 7:00 PM


Shower and get ready for a night at Fusian

7:00 to 7:15 PM


Travel to location E or SE of Blanchard Park for dinner. Possible destinations include a couple of Subways or Ale House at Waterford Lakes. Definitely in this area at this time, NOT at Blanchard Park. Likely location is Ale House.

7:15 to 8:00 PM


Eat dinner - Ale House ?

8:00 to 8:10 PM


Travel to Caylee site. ????????

8:10 to 8:25 PM


Visit Caylee site. Leave memento purchased at JC Penney? Hardly seems focused on the purpose, as she texts repeatedly with Chris S. and then Clint H. during this time. ?????

8:25 PM to 8:45 PM


Travel from Caylee site to Target at Waterford Lakes - a round-about route.
North to University Blvd. - several roads possible.
East on University to N. Alafaya Trail - she is going by Jesse G.'s - a familiar and comforting person
South on N. Alafaya Trail
Park at Target
This is an odd route, but cell pings from tower near JG clearly show she drove clockwise around the tower!

8:45 to 9:00 PM


Shop at Target
At Target. 8:56 PM $7.49 cash (page 1432). Purchase ?

9:00 to 9:05 PM


Travel to Fusian

9:05 to Midnight


At Fusian
Frequent texts with Andy F., who lives in Bithlo area.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3015019&postcount=20

JWG's research of July 1 pings:

Midnight to 2:10 AM


At Fusian. Initially lots of texts with Tony and the "shot girl", later with Andy F.

2:10 to 2:25 AM


Drive to Andy F. parent's home

2:25 to 9:45 AM


At Andy F. parent's home

9:45 to 10:15 AM


Drive to AL: Avalon Park Blvd to E. Colonial to N. Goldenrod to University Blvd.

10:15 to 10:30 AM


At AL's

10:30 to 10:40 AM


Drive to JG via University (pings noth side of "Caylee's tower" along the way)



Casey shows up at door at 10:39 AM (page 1522)




That is alot of partying/driving/staying awake...sounds like someone on Crank.

NocturnalLady
05-08-2009, 08:13 AM
IMHO..."a chase" is evidence of Casey's willful evasive actions that were characteristic of her behaviour. Cindy's MySpace epistle...Lee's club-caper...George's chase...

Casey was eluding every single member of the family, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Why? Why did Casey flee? What did she have to hide?

The chase also calls into question the A's assertion that they had no idea anything was wrong during the 31 days before they found out Caylee was missing. If they admit to the chase they will have to face a whole new round of "why didn't you call police sooner" questions.

Jolynna
05-08-2009, 09:01 AM
That is alot of partying/driving/staying awake...sounds like someone on Crank.

As far as I know this is the only time during the 31 days when witness statements and pings don't agree and verify Casey's overnight location.

It's Not the Nanny
05-08-2009, 09:16 AM
Snipped:

[QUOTE=BondJamesBond;3710460]

Had Casey thought to distance herself from the car somehow ~6/19 or 6/20 and called 911 reporting a carjacking w/ Caylee in the seat...after the body had been disposed, yet, before the smell had become immediately noticeable...she' would have had a shot @ getting away with it, IMHO.

After the decomp smell began ramping up...the car was a difficult liability. Casey seemed to consistently approach challenges w/ a defer & delay strategy.



I couldn't agree more. KC had a much higher chance at getting away with the murder had she called 911 in the first couple of hours or days. Her defer & delay strategy is what will ultimately seal her fate.

Intermezzo
05-08-2009, 10:48 AM
If you go back and read RG's interview with the police, he states that he thought that KC was coming over, taking a shower there to try to implicate JG.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Grund,%20Richard-0905.pdf

RG: And I said, "Jesse, donít you find it odd that Casey shows up at ten thirty in the morning and needs to take a shower?" I said, "What do you think she was doing there?" "Well I think she was trying to seduce me." "Well whatíd you do?" And he said, "I got away from her and played X-Box." And I said, "Son, I donít think thatís what she was doing." He said, "What do you think she was doing?" I said, "I think she was looking for something of yours and if she needs a scapegoat youíre going to be it. She was in your shower. She was in your bathroom. She could have taken a, a pair of underwear. She could have taken some hair." I said, "You haveÖ" At that point he didnít think she was that diabolical. I did. There was no reason for her to be there at that time of morning.

IMO, I think that KC showed up at JG house to take a shower to get the smell off of her. I also think that she was ditching the car, hoping that her dad or mom would get it and do something about the smell (at the same time trying to pass the smell off as a "dead animal.") I don't think she wanted the car back (not with the smell anyway). For one thing, she's a girl who likes being around guys and partying... she's not going to want to go out partying in a stinky car. She thought that her dad "would take care of it" and not ask questions about the smell, and she could pass it off as a dead animal.

Also, if you listen to this brief interview with RG and LE:

http://www.youtube.com/user/NifterMedia

RG states that he doesn't buy the "whole car broke down thing." He said that he "doesn't see anywhere in the report from Johnson's that the car was out of gas, but GA showed up with two tanks full of gas to pick up the car."

IMO, I just think she ditched the car because of the smell. That's just my opinion.

Yes, I believe she ditched the car becasue of the smell but that was on June 27, on June 30 the car was towed and on July 1 she shows up at Jesse's to shower. I will assume that she would have showered at least once between june 27 and july 1.
She either wanted to seduce Jesse (he did say she left the door ajar) or remove some personal items from his bathroom or apartment. Both are plausible theories.
Casey was staying with Amy and RM during this time she really didn't need to show up at Jesse's to shower. IMO. She was up to something alright.

Jolynna
05-08-2009, 11:44 AM
Yes, I believe she ditched the car becasue of the smell but that was on June 27, on June 30 the car was towed and on July 1 she shows up at Jesse's to shower. I will assume that she would have showered at least once between june 27 and july 1.
She either wanted to seduce Jesse (he did say she left the door ajar) or remove some personal items from his bathroom or apartment. Both are plausible theories.
Casey was staying with Amy and RM during this time she really didn't need to show up at Jesse's to shower. IMO. She was up to something alright.

Except that according to her pings she didn't spend June 30 at Amy's & Ric's.

She was at Fusian from 9 p.m. to 2:25 a.m. Then according to Casey went from Fusian to Andy F.'s parent's home at 2:30 a.m. July 1.

Who is Andy F?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3712484&postcount=446

sumbunny
05-08-2009, 01:50 PM
Snipped:

[QUOTE=BondJamesBond;3710460]

Had Casey thought to distance herself from the car somehow ~6/19 or 6/20 and called 911 reporting a carjacking w/ Caylee in the seat...after the body had been disposed, yet, before the smell had become immediately noticeable...she' would have had a shot @ getting away with it, IMHO.

After the decomp smell began ramping up...the car was a difficult liability. Casey seemed to consistently approach challenges w/ a defer & delay strategy.



I couldn't agree more. KC had a much higher chance at getting away with the murder had she called 911 in the first couple of hours or days. Her defer & delay strategy is what will ultimately seal her fate.

ITA-although if they found the body on suburban, they would have been looking at casey regardless.

essies
05-08-2009, 02:09 PM
[QUOTE=It's Not the Nanny;3713390]Snipped:



ITA-although if they found the body on suburban, they would have been looking at casey regardless.

True, but she would have been able to try to spin it as being set up by the imaginanny. Either way, she would have been found out-but probably not as quickly.:bang:

Intermezzo
05-08-2009, 02:21 PM
Except that according to her pings she didn't spend June 30 at Amy's & Ric's.

She was at Fusian from 9 p.m. to 2:25 a.m. Then according to Casey went from Fusian to Andy F.'s parent's home at 2:30 a.m. July 1.

Who is Andy F?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3712484&postcount=446

So she spent the night at a male friends house? Was the the house( or friend) LE questioned RM about in the Bithlo/Chuluota area? Something about being near a Winn Dixie? Then left and headed to Jesse's?

June 30th case calendar
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-6-30&c=4
This is the day Casey and Amy went to buy the gas can.
June 30 Casey was with Amy from 9:45Am until Amy went to work either 5:00PM or 6:00PM [232 N Glenwood Ave Orlando, FL 32803]
Page 1045 Lines 5-10 Amy H. Interview with LE on 7/23/2008
http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/ah092308.pdf

natsound
05-08-2009, 02:55 PM
Had Casey thought to distance herself from the car somehow ~6/19 or 6/20 and called 911 reporting a carjacking w/ Caylee in the seat...after the body had been disposed, yet, before the smell had become immediately noticeable...she' would have had a shot @ getting away with it, IMHO.

After the decomp smell began ramping up...the car was a difficult liability. Casey seemed to consistently approach challenges w/ a defer & delay strategy.



I tend to disagree here. I think the time that elapsed from when Caylee died to when her mother called 911 and got the ball rolling has helped KC immensely. We have not seen any smoking gun yet to difinitively pin her to the crime... right now (from what we've seen) it's a quantity of evidence over the quality of the evidence.

How about that California mom who tried to say she got hit over the head and someone stole her daughter.. look how quickly the finger of suspicion was pointed at her. The evidence is fresh, and it will be easier to pin that mom to the crime.

Ripley007
05-08-2009, 03:30 PM
I tend to disagree here. I think the time that elapsed from when Caylee died to when her mother called 911 and got the ball rolling has helped KC immensely. We have not seen any smoking gun yet to difinitively pin her to the crime... right now (from what we've seen) it's a quantity of evidence over the quality of the evidence.

How about that California mom who tried to say she got hit over the head and someone stole her daughter.. look how quickly the finger of suspicion was pointed at her. The evidence is fresh, and it will be easier to pin that mom to the crime.

The Calif. copycat mom is not a true psycho-socio-path like KC is. LE wore her down and she fessed up. No comparisions can be made IMHO.

True we haven't been privey to any one single "smoking gun" piece of eviedence YET, but I am highly impressed with Orlando's LE and continue to have Faith that they have at least one.

BondJamesBond
05-08-2009, 03:47 PM
I tend to disagree here. I think the time that elapsed from when Caylee died to when her mother called 911 and got the ball rolling has helped KC immensely. We have not seen any smoking gun yet to difinitively pin her to the crime... right now (from what we've seen) it's a quantity of evidence over the quality of the evidence.

How about that California mom who tried to say she got hit over the head and someone stole her daughter.. look how quickly the finger of suspicion was pointed at her. The evidence is fresh, and it will be easier to pin that mom to the crime.

IKWYM, Nat. I'm waiting for that singular piece of evidence that will make it ever-so-clear to even the most scrutinizing juror - something that will keep things simple. I don't want any "baffle'em w/ BS" defense to get in the way of bringing out the truth. I want Casey to get a fair trial. I want the truth to come out. If it proves me wrong and Casey innocent...so be it.

In the comment above I was thinking along the lines of how Casey's (and G&C's, et.al.) stories would have signficantly less probability of containing conflicts, spurious changes, etc. when compared to what they have now which will require the jurors to enter into a willing suspension of disbelief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief) to find in her favor.

Attempting to maneuver back on-topic...there seems a chance IF Casey doesn't go w/ the Cindy-did-it defense...she'll go with the ZFG-took-Caylee-at-JBPark story. That will have Casey's defense team explaining that ZFG went to great lengths to frame Casey by choosing the Suburban disposal site...and planting some decomp fluid & hair in the Pontiac whilst it sat at Amscot...no Amscot surveil tapes to show the jury ZFG wasn't there...no 'real' ZFG that couldn't be in multiple places at once (IOW...one that would hafta provide an alibi to any physical witness sightings - boogey-ZFG can materialize anytime & anywhere she's needed :beamup:) :rolleyes:.

FWIW...IIRC, the California mother cracked and took LE to the body.

songline
05-08-2009, 03:48 PM
The Calif. copycat mom is not a true psycho-socio-path like KC is. LE wore her down and she fessed up. No comparisions can be made IMHO.

True we haven't been privey to any one single "smoking gun" piece of eviedence YET, but I am highly impressed with Orlando's LE and continue to have Faith that they have at least one.
I think that not reporting a missing child for 31 days gives a body enough time to decompose; washing the pants and not giving the search team a garment of Caylees gives the body more time to decompose; so that evidence will become harder and harder to find.
YES I DO THINK the "A"s helped in postponing the finding of better evidence.
But I also think that it is very possible that Casey was dancing to somebody Else's tune; could it be PB maybe, could it be that someone is after PB and Casey was the victim of it maybe. Still looking... have not made up my mind yet.

So maybe California copy Cat is worse then Casey. :confused: donknow!

debs
05-08-2009, 03:51 PM
I think that not reporting a missing child for 31 days gives a body enough time to decompose; washing the pants and not giving the search team a garment of Caylees gives the body more time to decompose; so that evidence will become harder and harder to find.
YES I DO THINK the "A"s helped in postponing the finding of better evidence.
But I also think that it is very possible that Casey was dancing to somebody Else's tune; could it be PB maybe, could it be that someone is after PB and Casey was the victim of it maybe. Still looking... have not made up my mind yet.

So maybe California copy Cat is worse then Casey. :confused: donknow!

This is getting old. Unless there is proof that PB was involved, I think its coming very close to slandering this person. Otherwise, take it to the Rumors thread in the parking lot in order to flesh out your theory.

natsound
05-08-2009, 03:53 PM
The Calif. copycat mom is not a true psycho-socio-path like KC is. LE wore her down and she fessed up. No comparisions can be made IMHO.

True we haven't been privey to any one single "smoking gun" piece of eviedence YET, but I am highly impressed with Orlando's LE and continue to have Faith that they have at least one.

Hmmm.. wonder what would have happened if KC had tried to make it look like a carjacking etc and called 911 that night. Wonder if police could have worn her down at that time... fresh off the crime?

natsound
05-08-2009, 03:57 PM
Attempting to maneuver back on-topic...there seems a chance IF Casey doesn't go w/ the Cindy-did-it defense...she'll go with the ZFG-took-Caylee-at-JBPark story. That will have Casey's defense team explaining that ZFG went to great lengths to frame Casey by choosing the Suburban disposal site...and planting some decomp fluid & hair in the Pontiac whilst it sat at Amscot...no Amscot surveil tapes to show the jury ZFG wasn't there...no 'real' ZFG that couldn't be in multiple places at once (IOW...one that would hafta provide an alibi to any physical witness sightings - boogey-ZFG can materialize anytime & anywhere she's needed :beamup:) :rolleyes:.

FWIW...IIRC, the California mother cracked and took LE to the body.

snipped

Does KC need to point the finger at anyone? Can defense simply go with the "prove our client did it" defense instead of "we think this or that person did it" defense? OJ was looking for the "real murderer" (:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:) for years, before he went to jail for armed robbery...

songline
05-08-2009, 04:04 PM
This is getting old. Unless there is proof that PB was involved, I think its coming very close to slandering this person. Otherwise, take it to the Rumors thread in the parking lot in order to flesh out your theory.
Pass me up

JWG
05-08-2009, 04:11 PM
Carrying the following post over from another thread as it is relevant speculation as to why & how the Pontiac was in temporary storage @ Amscot...


I think Casey definitely wanted to get the Pontiac also.I'm not going with the theory that she wanted it to get towed or stolen.But, was it left there on purpose that day so she could borrow TONE's and because she had to take him to the airport and she didn't want him in her car for obvious reasons.Did she have unfinished business? Things left in the car? or is this simple she obviously needed a car.??

That's absolutely brilliant, WAISI! :clap:


Casey knew Tony didn't like her driving his Jeep GC
Casey KNEW <6/27 he'd EXPECT her to drop him @ the airport 6/30AM
Casey HAD to come up with a way NOT to take Tony to the airport in the Pontiac owing to the smell & he'd want to put his stuff in the trunk (no body, just smell)
Casey had to ENSURE the Pontiac alibi to Tony would jive with her not retrieving the Pontiac <6/30, hence, she tells Tony its broken-and-Dad'll-get-it vs. outta gas. Casey may run it outta gas just to ensure it won't start if Tony wants to try it himself when he rescues her 6/27.
Casey didn't rush to gas up the Pontiac before 6/29 since she didn't want it back until 6/30 and her story to Tony was that George would handle it, so, she must've given him some story about needing his Jeep 6/29AM to go get something...she couldn't enlist his help for gas cans again...that would've busted her story.

Casey's plan didn't account for Amscot paying attention to the car.

Brilliant, Whyamisointerested, absolutely brilliant! I'm carrying this post over to the Pontiac thread for convenience. :bowdown:

I thought it would be good to put WAISI's observation and Bond's added detail in some timeline perspective.

June 20 - The smell of decomp might have been noticeable to a small degree in the trunk, which may have prompted KC to attempt to clean the trunk when she backed into the garage at her parents that day. It is likely the smell had not yet become noticeable in the passenger compartment, and the reasons why will become apparent below.

June 21 and June 22 - Based on pings, it appears KC never left Tony's and therefore would not have noticed any change in the smell of the car, because she did not use the car.

June 23 - TL was near the front passenger side of the Pontiac as KC poured gas into the car. KC was between him and the trunk. When KC opened the trunk to put the cans away TL turned to go shut the tailgate on his Jeep, walking away from the car. TL notes that KC made no attempt to keep him from the trunk, the only odd thing being (in his mind) that she wanted to pour the gas herself.

The fact that she let him near the car leads me to believe no smell had yet permeated the passenger compartment. Also, it seems likely that KC opened the trunk for the very first time since June 20 when she put the gas cans away, likely receiving a hefty waft of decomp in the process. :yuck: KC dodged a bullet because Tony had begun to walk away and was "shielded" by gasoline fumes between him and the trunk. :whistle:

June 24 - Now KC knows she has a problem with the odor in her trunk. This is why she blows past dad when he wants to get the tool from her trunk - she cannot let him smell it. GA does get close to the car, but never got to the rear of the vehicle before KC shoved the gas cans into his hands. Given the trunk was opened just briefly before George got there and the car was parked outside, there was ample time for what little odor escaped to dissipate enough so as not to register to GA. KC dodges another. :yow:

I think WAISI's initial observation that KC had to ditch the car somewhere due to the smell so that she did not have to use it to take AL to the airport still holds. To me, she begins formulating the plan the afternoon of the 24th or sometime on the 25th. :idea:

Knowing she only had a couple gallons of gas in the tank, she was pretty confident :snooty: she would run out by the evening of the 29th, thus avoiding using the car the morning of the 30th. After running out she would need to get the car back after taking Tony to the airport.

I don't think KC had things completely worked out in her mind, but it seems her first instinct was to enlist Amy's help to get gas for the car. This meant she had to explain the smell in advance so as not to surprise Amy :eek: when they both showed up to put gas in the car, thus prompting two advance calls and text.

June 25 - Either on this day or possibly the 24th (while driving away from the 'rents after racing George to the trunk) KC tells Amy about a horrible smell in the car during a phone conversation. She blames it on her dad, who she claims ran over something and it got stuck to the car. She said the smell was coming from the engine, so clearly by this time it has entered the passenger compartment.

June 26 - In a second phone conversation, KC tells Amy the smell has gotten much worse. :sick:

June 27 - In a text to Amy while driving north from the 'rents to TL's - before ditching the car at Amscot - KC tells Amy "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car." KC then texts Amy about running out of gas a few minutes later.

Of course she told Tony a different story - that the car had broken down and she contacted her dad, who would take care of it. Nevertheless, her plan is off to a great start. :woohoo:

June 28 - Sometime on Saturday KC realizes she has a real problem with the smell in the car, and formulates a plan to throw Jesse under the bus. Her first attempt is to call him around 1:30 PM and ask him if she can borrow his gas can. He is on the other side of town, however, and declines. :banghead:

June 29 - Knowing she has to get the car she reverts to the original plan and enlists Amy's help. She texts Amy on Sunday and asks if she can borrow her gas cans, but Amy reminds her they are in storage. Seems nothing is going her way. :banghead:

June 30 - Not to be denied, KC shows up at Amy's and they go to Target around noon to get a gas can (with Amy's money, of course :thumb:). After Amy leaves for work KC drives to the Amscot to put gas in the car, but sees it is missing. :banghead:

What puzzles me is what her plan was if the car was still there there. Leave Tony's jeep and take the Pontiac back to Tony's? The distance between the two is only 2.8 miles, so KC could have jogged or walked it, I suppose.

I am not convinced that KC breathed a sigh of relief when she saw the car was missing. She had to realize someone else had it and would eventually figure out what was causing the smell. I think this is what prompted her to make a second attempt at throwing Jesse under the bus.

July 1 - In the morning, KC leaves Andy F.'s and drives back to TL's apartment, where she stays for about 15 minutes - probably picking up some clothing. Then she calls Jesse and asks if she can take a shower at his place because she does not have a key to Tony's. :liar: Lot's of driving around for someone who can't afford gas, IMHO. :rolleyes:

I have no idea what her plan was, but it clearly started with seduction - leaving the bathroom door partly opened while she showered. Perhaps she was planning to steal something of value and place it at the crime scene after she'd finished bedding him, as has been speculated by many on this board. But Jesse did not fall for it, and luckily his roommate showed up soon after.

It is possible she actually did take something and plant it at the scene. KC pinged in an area consistent with the crime scene on two occasions during the evening of July 1: 7:15PM and 8:30 PM. In both cases she was there long enough to plant evidence. If she did plant something, whatever it was deteriorated by Dec. 11. :doh:

travelgal
05-08-2009, 04:28 PM
:help:
OK, I am taking meds for upper resp. infection, :sick: but can someone help me, pleeeeese?? I am lost, who is Andy F. and PB ???? Did I miss something when I was in a coma (not really, just felt that way!) ?? Please help me get up to speed on the growing list of players in this saga! :confused:

debs
05-08-2009, 04:34 PM
I think that not reporting a missing child for 31 days gives a body enough time to decompose; washing the pants and not giving the search team a garment of Caylees gives the body more time to decompose; so that evidence will become harder and harder to find.
YES I DO THINK the "A"s helped in postponing the finding of better evidence.
But I also think that it is very possible that Casey was dancing to somebody Else's tune; could it be PB maybe, could it be that someone is after PB and Casey was the victim of it maybe. Still looking... have not made up my mind yet.

So maybe California copy Cat is worse then Casey. :confused: donknow!

How does this relate to the Pontiac?

debbie0604
05-08-2009, 05:42 PM
JWG's research on Casey's Activities June 30:

4:30 PM (approx)


Amy leaves for work
4:40 to 4:55 PM


KC drives to Amscot. May have left a few minutes earlier to fill gas cans if not done already. I cannot remember - whose car did she drive to Amscot? Tony's? If so, what was she going to do if she did find her car at Amscot, after using the cans to put gas in her car? Call Tony or Jesse to help her with that stinky car? Even if she had set the stage by letting Amy or others know that there was a "dead animal" on the undercarriage, there still would have been questions and suspicion about that smell in her car - particularly once everyone starts realizing that Caylee is missing. How was she going to explain that one? A "dead animal" on the undercarriage of a car doesn't reek that bad, trust me. So how would she have gotten her stinky car home without enlisting someone else's help. And didn't she leave her purse in the car as well? If she was wanting that car back with that "dead body" odor - she is one dumba$$ girl. (debbie)
4:55 PM


Arrives at Amscot, notices car is not there, keeps heading north on Goldenrod (this is lone ping to CID=2)
KC must be wondering what has happened to the car, but without missing a beat she pings Matt C. and invites him to Fusian. Possibly heading north past Crane's Landing made her think of him. First time all day she contacted him.
4:55 to 5:15 PM


Drives to JC Penney at Fashion Square, taking N. Goldenrod to University to S. Semoran to E. Colonial.
5:15 to 6:15 PM


At JC Penney. 6:10 PM $73.40 charge (page 1432). Purchase memento?
6:15 to 6:20 PM


Travel to Ric / Amy's
6:20 to 7:00 PM


Shower and get ready for a night at Fusian
7:00 to 7:15 PM


Travel to location E or SE of Blanchard Park for dinner. Possible destinations include a couple of Subways or Ale House at Waterford Lakes. Definitely in this area at this time, NOT at Blanchard Park. Likely location is Ale House.
7:15 to 8:00 PM


Eat dinner - Ale House ?
8:00 to 8:10 PM


Travel to Caylee site. ???????? I believe that she went back to that site where Caylee is. I have thought about that myself. I've wondered if that "Winnie the Pooh" Balloon that was laying at the site was left there by her when she went back to the site to "visit." (debbie)
8:10 to 8:25 PM


Visit Caylee site. Leave memento purchased at JC Penney? What was purchased at JC Penney? Does anyone know? (Debbie) Hardly seems focused on the purpose, as she texts repeatedly with Chris S. and then Clint H. during this time. ?????
8:25 PM to 8:45 PM


Travel from Caylee site to Target at Waterford Lakes - a round-about route.
North to University Blvd. - several roads possible.
East on University to N. Alafaya Trail - she is going by Jesse G.'s - a familiar and comforting person
South on N. Alafaya Trail
Park at Target
This is an odd route, but cell pings from tower near JG clearly show she drove clockwise around the tower!
8:45 to 9:00 PM


Shop at Target
At Target. 8:56 PM $7.49 cash (page 1432). Purchase ?
9:00 to 9:05 PM


Travel to Fusian
9:05 to Midnight


At Fusian
Frequent texts with Andy F., who lives in Bithlo area.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3015019&postcount=20

JWG's research of July 1 pings:

Midnight to 2:10 AM


At Fusian. Initially lots of texts with Tony and the "shot girl", later with Andy F.
2:10 to 2:25 AM


Drive to Andy F. parent's home
2:25 to 9:45 AM


At Andy F. parent's home (who is Andy F? I can't remember) (debbie)
9:45 to 10:15 AM


Drive to AL: Avalon Park Blvd to E. Colonial to N. Goldenrod to University Blvd.
10:15 to 10:30 AM


At AL's
10:30 to 10:40 AM


Drive to JG via University (pings noth side of "Caylee's tower" along the way)


Casey shows up at door at 10:39 AM (page 1522)


Respectfully snipped above. My questions and comments are in brown.

I also think she was driving around alot because TL didn't want her in his apartment when he was in class, or not at home. JMO

AZlawyer
05-08-2009, 06:30 PM
I thought it would be good to put WAISI's observation and Bond's added detail in some timeline perspective.

June 20 - The smell of decomp might have been noticeable to a small degree in the trunk, which may have prompted KC to attempt to clean the trunk when she backed into the garage at her parents that day. It is likely the smell had not yet become noticeable in the passenger compartment, and the reasons why will become apparent below.

June 21 and June 22 - Based on pings, it appears KC never left Tony's and therefore would not have noticed any change in the smell of the car, because she did not use the car.

June 23 - TL was near the front passenger side of the Pontiac as KC poured gas into the car. KC was between him and the trunk. When KC opened the trunk to put the cans away TL turned to go shut the tailgate on his Jeep, walking away from the car. TL notes that KC made no attempt to keep him from the trunk, the only odd thing being (in his mind) that she wanted to pour the gas herself.

The fact that she let him near the car leads me to believe no smell had yet permeated the passenger compartment. Also, it seems likely that KC opened the trunk for the very first time since June 20 when she put the gas cans away, likely receiving a hefty waft of decomp in the process. :yuck: KC dodged a bullet because Tony had begun to walk away and was "shielded" by gasoline fumes between him and the trunk. :whistle:

June 24 - Now KC knows she has a problem with the odor in her trunk. This is why she blows past dad when he wants to get the tool from her trunk - she cannot let him smell it. GA does get close to the car, but never got to the rear of the vehicle before KC shoved the gas cans into his hands. Given the trunk was opened just briefly before George got there and the car was parked outside, there was ample time for what little odor escaped to dissipate enough so as not to register to GA. KC dodges another. :yow:

I think WAISI's initial observation that KC had to ditch the car somewhere due to the smell so that she did not have to use it to take AL to the airport still holds. To me, she begins formulating the plan the afternoon of the 24th or sometime on the 25th. :idea:

Knowing she only had a couple gallons of gas in the tank, she was pretty confident :snooty: she would run out by the evening of the 29th, thus avoiding using the car the morning of the 30th. After running out she would need to get the car back after taking Tony to the airport.

I don't think KC had things completely worked out in her mind, but it seems her first instinct was to enlist Amy's help to get gas for the car. This meant she had to explain the smell in advance so as not to surprise Amy :eek: when they both showed up to put gas in the car, thus prompting two advance calls and text.

June 25 - Either on this day or possibly the 24th (while driving away from the 'rents after racing George to the trunk) KC tells Amy about a horrible smell in the car during a phone conversation. She blames it on her dad, who she claims ran over something and it got stuck to the car. She said the smell was coming from the engine, so clearly by this time it has entered the passenger compartment.

June 26 - In a second phone conversation, KC tells Amy the smell has gotten much worse. :sick:

June 27 - In a text to Amy while driving north from the 'rents to TL's - before ditching the car at Amscot - KC tells Amy "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car." KC then texts Amy about running out of gas a few minutes later.

Of course she told Tony a different story - that the car had broken down and she contacted her dad, who would take care of it. Nevertheless, her plan is off to a great start. :woohoo:

June 28 - Sometime on Saturday KC realizes she has a real problem with the smell in the car, and formulates a plan to throw Jesse under the bus. Her first attempt is to call him around 1:30 PM and ask him if she can borrow his gas can. He is on the other side of town, however, and declines. :banghead:

June 29 - Knowing she has to get the car she reverts to the original plan and enlists Amy's help. She texts Amy on Sunday and asks if she can borrow her gas cans, but Amy reminds her they are in storage. Seems nothing is going her way. :banghead:

June 30 - Not to be denied, KC shows up at Amy's and they go to Target around noon to get a gas can (with Amy's money, of course :thumb:). After Amy leaves for work KC drives to the Amscot to put gas in the car, but sees it is missing. :banghead:

What puzzles me is what her plan was if the car was still there there. Leave Tony's jeep and take the Pontiac back to Tony's? The distance between the two is only 2.8 miles, so KC could have jogged or walked it, I suppose.

I am not convinced that KC breathed a sigh of relief when she saw the car was missing. She had to realize someone else had it and would eventually figure out what was causing the smell. I think this is what prompted her to make a second attempt at throwing Jesse under the bus.

July 1 - In the morning, KC leaves Andy F.'s and drives back to TL's apartment, where she stays for about 15 minutes - probably picking up some clothing. Then she calls Jesse and asks if she can take a shower at his place because she does not have a key to Tony's. :liar: Lot's of driving around for someone who can't afford gas, IMHO. :rolleyes:

I have no idea what her plan was, but it clearly started with seduction - leaving the bathroom door partly opened while she showered. Perhaps she was planning to steal something of value and place it at the crime scene after she'd finished bedding him, as has been speculated by many on this board. But Jesse did not fall for it, and luckily his roommate showed up soon after.

It is possible she actually did take something and plant it at the scene. KC pinged in an area consistent with the crime scene on two occasions during the evening of July 1: 7:15PM and 8:30 PM. In both cases she was there long enough to plant evidence. If she did plant something, whatever it was deteriorated by Dec. 11. :doh:

Incredible post, JWG. I have long believed that activities between June 30-July 2 eventually convinced KC she was going to get away with murder. Let me add to your timeline...

After the times that you speculate she might have left evidence behind on the night of July 1, she goes to JP/Ricardo/Amy's place for the night, but leaves (presumably in Tony's Jeep) in the very early morning of July 2 (before 5 am) and drives off toward the area of the Anthony house again.

When she gets back to JP/Ricardo/Amy's place later in the morning of July 2 (at least by around 7 am but maybe earlier), she washes her clothes, then composes her Diary of Days poem (but doesn't post it yet), then, in the evening, drops by the tattoo place to make an appointment for the next day to declare the official start of her BELLA VITA.

IMHO, KC did something during that sleepless night of July 1 that made her believe she was "home free" even if--to stay on topic ;)--the Pontiac and all of the evidence therein had been taken out of her control. Perhaps she did leave some evidence she thought would point so obviously to Someone Else (Jesse?) that no one would ever think of smelling her car.

Did we ever find out what she bought at JC Penney at 4:17 pm on July 1?

natsound
05-08-2009, 06:47 PM
When she gets back to JP/Ricardo/Amy's place later in the morning of July 2 (at least by around 7 am but maybe earlier), she washes her clothes, then composes her Diary of Days poem (but doesn't post it yet), then, in the evening, drops by the tattoo place to make an appointment for the next day to declare the official start of her BELLA VITA.

Did we ever find out what she bought at JC Penney at 4:17 pm on July 1?

Excellent analysis. Why do we believe she composed Diary of Days on July 2 but didn't post it?

AZlawyer
05-08-2009, 07:01 PM
Excellent analysis. Why do we believe she composed Diary of Days on July 2 but didn't post it?

We know the file was created July 2 from the computer forensics report (I don't have the link handy), and we know the date she posted it (July 7) from the Myspace printouts.

TripleA
05-08-2009, 07:11 PM
I have just got to revisit the smell of decomp, just to get it out of my head...

When this case first started and several people were saying that once you smell decomp you will never forget it and how distinguishable it is, being a former USAF med tech and prior to that a nurse's aide in a nursing home, I kept thinking that I knew I had been around several corpses, but couldn't remember the smell that everyone said was so unforgettable.

Anyway, about two months ago I went into a vacant house for "work purposes" (as Lee would say) and WHAMO!!! It hit me like a ton of bricks. The smell of decomp came flooding back to me and I knew it instantaneously! "It smelled like a d*mn dead body" in there. I did a little sleuthing of my own when I got home and sure enough, the house I was in that day belonged to a man who had died suddenly in his home and was not found for almost a month. I could not get that smell out of my nose for days.

I had to go back in the house a few days ago and this time it seemed even worse than before. I decided that it seemed worse because I have the visual of that man in my mind and I am so sad for his family, especially since I know that they had to go in and clear out all of his belongings (nosey neighbors told me that they brought a moving van and emptied it themselves). :(

Having been reaquainted with that smell, I am fully convinced that CA and GA knew immediately that Caylee was dead. There is no way in hello that they did not demand to know where she buried Caylee and it is exactly why they immediately started digging in their own back yard. They have been looking for a body since day 31.

eddeva
05-08-2009, 07:17 PM
i'm pretty sure this is a dense question but i have no answer so i'm gonna ask it anyway - why did casey need amy's (or anyone's) help to get gas?

Rumpole
05-08-2009, 07:23 PM
i'm pretty sure this is a dense question but i have no answer so i'm gonna ask it anyway - why did casey need amy's (or anyone's) help to get gas?
No money!

No gas cans.

eddeva
05-08-2009, 07:28 PM
No money!

No gas cans.

relax hercule, i didn't know she was flat broke over that period of time, i thought she was robbing people blind left and right.

AZlawyer
05-08-2009, 07:28 PM
No money!

No gas cans.

How'd she pay for the tattoo on July 3?

sumbunny
05-08-2009, 07:31 PM
relax hercule, i didn't know she was flat broke over that period of time, i thought she was robbing people blind left and right.

My personal opinion is, she had no "ride" to get the gas, and didn't want to waste what money she did have on gas cans.

steadychick
05-08-2009, 07:43 PM
What if GA actually DID get a whiff of decomp the day that KC shoved the gas cans at him from her trunk??? Just a guess, but maybe that is exactly why he chased after her a few days later after spotting her at the house, which both he and CA now deny ever happened. Maybe he didn't want CA to know about the odor or his suspicions when he went to LE with the story of the chase. Maybe that's why he didn't want LE to mention the chase to CA. I think this has been mentioned before, but there has to be some very compelling reason why he has changed his story on this. It has to connect to something very incriminating against KC.

Another thought -- how did George know to bring gas cans when picking up the car from the towyard?? How did he know at that point that is was out of gas?? It's obvious because of the chase that the A's knew KC had been lying about her whereabouts. Had he already talked to KC about the car before he picked it up?

Rumpole
05-08-2009, 07:43 PM
relax hercule, i didn't know she was flat broke over that period of time, i thought she was robbing people blind left and right.

OK
She was carefully watching her budget.

On the credit side of the ledger: steal food, GA gas, cash, credit cards Caylee's piggy bank etc
On the debit side: food/snacks when friends at work, sunglasses, shoes, tattoos etc.

An "investment" in an asset like a gas can not within budget.

BondJamesBond
05-08-2009, 07:44 PM
Hi all :wave:

1) I'm THOROUGHLY enjoying all the sleuthin'...
2) Maybe there should be a new thread to sleuth out Casey's June-July expenditures/funding....:waitasec:

Rumpole
05-08-2009, 07:53 PM
My personal opinion is, she had no "ride" to get the gas, and didn't want to waste what money she did have on gas cans.

This part of the cunning plan started with trying to borrow gas can that Amy already had. With that gas can not available :doh: it naturally developed into Amy buying a gas can "for herself" but letting KC use it first up. :slap:

To quote Roger Waters: :singing:
" It all makes perfect sense,
Expressed in dollars and cents...." :twocents:

This is KCnomics - not for the faint-hearted! :crossfingers:

songline
05-08-2009, 08:19 PM
relax hercule, i didn't know she was flat broke over that period of time, i thought she was robbing people blind left and right.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

travelgal
05-08-2009, 08:33 PM
relax hercule, i didn't know she was flat broke over that period of time, i thought she was robbing people blind left and right.

Whatever money KC had at that time was reserved for her necessities like sexy clothes & underwear, beer, snacks, Velveeta, freeze pops, lollipops, etc. God forbid she would spend her ill-gotten gains on gas & a gas can! She spent her (stolen) money very carefully! She probably only put 1 or 2 gallons in the car when needed. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:waitasec: I have not yet figured out who ANDY F. is !!??? I looked through her myspace list, and I have seen his name pop up in various threads but who the heck is he??:eek: :eek:

AZlawyer
05-08-2009, 08:38 PM
Whatever money KC had at that time was reserved for her necessities like sexy clothes & underwear, beer, snacks, Velveeta, freeze pops, lollipops, etc. God forbid she would spend her ill-gotten gains on gas & a gas can! She spent her (stolen) money very carefully! She probably only put 1 or 2 gallons in the car when needed. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:waitasec: I have not yet figured out who ANDY F. is !!??? I looked through her myspace list, and I have seen his name pop up in various threads but who the heck is he??:eek: :eek:

A friend/probably lover/who knows. I don't think you've missed anything too interesting about him. ;)

MAMABEAR
05-08-2009, 08:42 PM
i'm pretty sure this is a dense question but i have no answer so i'm gonna ask it anyway - why did casey need amy's (or anyone's) help to get gas?

I always figured it was to set somebody up. Guess it could be that she had to show that she was "in need" and that made her feel so good.

jjgram
05-08-2009, 08:42 PM
I have just got to revisit the smell of decomp, just to get it out of my head...

When this case first started and several people were saying that once you smell decomp you will never forget it and how distinguishable it is, being a former USAF med tech and prior to that a nurse's aide in a nursing home, I kept thinking that I knew I had been around several corpses, but couldn't remember the smell that everyone said was so unforgettable.

Anyway, about two months ago I went into a vacant house for "work purposes" (as Lee would say) and WHAMO!!! It hit me like a ton of bricks. The smell of decomp came flooding back to me and I knew it instantaneously! "It smelled like a d*mn dead body" in there. I did a little sleuthing of my own when I got home and sure enough, the house I was in that day belonged to a man who had died suddenly in his home and was not found for almost a month. I could not get that smell out of my nose for days.

I had to go back in the house a few days ago and this time it seemed even worse than before. I decided that it seemed worse because I have the visual of that man in my mind and I am so sad for his family, especially since I know that they had to go in and clear out all of his belongings (nosey neighbors told me that they brought a moving van and emptied it themselves). :(

Having been reaquainted with that smell, I am fully convinced that CA and GA knew immediately that Caylee was dead. There is no way in hello that they did not demand to know where she buried Caylee and it is exactly why they immediately started digging in their own back yard. They have been looking for a body since day 31.

SAD & S I C K ! ! !
or
S I C K & S A D ! ! ! !

I'm sorry but it is true... how in the world could
two ( 2 ) P R O F E S S I O N A L ~ people..... miss it...????

It really troubles my soul that they have indeed made the
choice to
stick with KC & her :liar: W I L D LIES !!!! and to
ABANDON The Search for the Truth ( T R U T H ) to the
facts of the
#1 disappearance of Little Angel CAYLEE

#2 Death of Little Angel CAYLEE

# 3 Facts/ of the M U R D E R of Little Angel CAYLEE

#4 S E E K I N G ~ JUSTICE ~ for Little Angel CAYLEE

#5 Seeking to have the MURDERER of LITTLE ANGEL CAYLEE
F O U N D ~ & brought to ~ JUSTICE ! ! !

WHY ? WHY? WHY? would these "A FAMILY" Not
want
to P A R T I C I P A T E = HELP = in SEEKING ~THE TRUTH! ? ?:confused: :mad::crazy::crazy::crazy:
:doh:
:rage::cop::cursing::hopping_mad:
:cry::cry::cry::baby:Sad ~ Little Angel CAYLEE ~Missing =Now DEAD !
:highfive:
:Justice::confused:

JMO
:rolleyes:
God Bless !
jjgram

eddeva
05-08-2009, 08:46 PM
all i can work out about andy f is that he lives w/ his parents at avalon park which is also where jeff hopkins was supposed to live, at one time, and it's where zenaida was living when she first started watching caylee (hope i'm remembering that correctly)
there was quite a bit of communication between the two just before casey's first (i think) arrest.

jjgram
05-08-2009, 08:56 PM
all i can work out about andy f is that he lives w/ his parents at avalon park which is also where jeff hopkins was supposed to live, at one time, and it's where zenaida was living when she first started watching caylee (hope i'm remembering that correctly)
there was quite a bit of communication between the two just before casey's first (i think) arrest.

:confused:
Why was NO ONE ever able to come up with

KC's Phone records... of CALLS from any of these

*** SO CALLED * * * people....
with out... KC/ LA/ CA saying...... " Oh that was a D I F F E R E N T
Jeff/ Julliette/ Zachary/ Zanieda e t c

...
Oh That was Not the RIGHT ONE

I often times wonder...

do these "A FAMILY" people ever watch their... own
videoed interview... do they ever
L@@K at them selves....

do they every W O N D E R ??? DO I L@@K like that
smacking my gum...
pointing my finger... Getting ANGRY !!!

** Silly me.... of course they do N O T see them selves
LIKE T H A T !!!!

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::waitasec::liar::doh ::doh::doh:

JMO
:confused::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::twocents:
God Bless
jjgram

Jolynna
05-08-2009, 09:15 PM
quote=AZlawyer

Respectfully snipped...

Did we ever find out what she bought at JC Penney at 4:17 pm on June 27?Casey and Tony went to J.C. Penny's together on June 27 and Casey bought shoes to wear to Fusian that night.

FROM AL's SEPT. 8 LE INTERVIEW (Investigator Edwards says Tony and Casey were caught on surveillance video.):

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5686811/Casey-Anthony-Tony-Lazzaro-transcript-Sept-8-2008 (page 12)

Jolynna
05-08-2009, 09:18 PM
How'd she pay for the tattoo on July 3?

When did Amy "sleepwalk"?

Jolynna
05-08-2009, 09:19 PM
relax hercule, i didn't know she was flat broke over that period of time, i thought she was robbing people blind left and right.

Maybe Casey was "between" robberies?

travelgal
05-08-2009, 09:21 PM
A friend/probably lover/who knows. I don't think you've missed anything too interesting about him. ;)

OK, thanks, AZlawyer. It is just one of those things that gnaws away when I can't put my finger on it! I did find an Andy F. (last name like the country where you can visit the Eiffel Tower). He called KC at 1:57 AM on 7/16. I imagine you are right, but I have this nagging thought that KC went to his house (or his parent's house) a couple of times during the late June/early July period. His parent's live near the Anthony's. Probably nothing of any value or you more experienced sleuthers would have uncovered all the goods on him. Oh, well movin' on then......
:blowkiss:

travelgal
05-08-2009, 09:28 PM
all i can work out about andy f is that he lives w/ his parents at avalon park which is also where jeff hopkins was supposed to live, at one time, and it's where zenaida was living when she first started watching caylee (hope i'm remembering that correctly)
there was quite a bit of communication between the two just before casey's first (i think) arrest.

YES!!! Thank you, eddeva! :blowkiss: I am not losing my mind then. I knew there was a connection beyond the fact that his parent's house is near the A's.
As I wrote in response to AZlawyer: probably nothing of any value here with Andy F. but it was just bugging me. Thanks again! :blowkiss:

MD MOMMY
05-08-2009, 09:34 PM
According to Tony (from the most recent document dump that included AL's statements), Casey and Tony went to J.C. Penny's together on June 27 and Casey bought shoes to wear to Fusian that night.

I wonder if those were the black hoochie momma boots?

Searchfortruth
05-08-2009, 09:55 PM
What if GA actually DID get a whiff of decomp the day that KC shoved the gas cans at him from her trunk??? Just a guess, but maybe that is exactly why he chased after her a few days later after spotting her at the house, which both he and CA now deny ever happened. Maybe he didn't want CA to know about the odor or his suspicions when he went to LE with the story of the chase. Maybe that's why he didn't want LE to mention the chase to CA. I think this has been mentioned before, but there has to be some very compelling reason why he has changed his story on this. It has to connect to something very incriminating against KC.

Another thought -- how did George know to bring gas cans when picking up the car from the towyard?? How did he know at that point that is was out of gas?? It's obvious because of the chase that the A's knew KC had been lying about her whereabouts. Had he already talked to KC about the car before he picked it up?Wow you have some great thoughts going on here ! I can see George chasing Casey because he smelled the decomposition in the car...something was going on there, you just don't get into a high speed chase with your daughter for no reason whatsoever. That was a drastic action taken by George. ITA, that there would be a reason for George going back and changing his story about the chase, he knows LE has the E-Pass records...

As for the gas cans and the tow lot, didn't George come back with the gas on his second trip to the tow lot ?

Chezhire
05-08-2009, 10:21 PM
SNIPPED: "What if GA actually DID get a whiff of decomp the day that KC shoved the gas cans at him from her trunk??? Just a guess, but maybe that is exactly why he chased after her a few days later after spotting her at the house, which both he and CA now deny ever happened. Maybe he didn't want CA to know about the odor or his suspicions when he went to LE with the story of the chase. Maybe that's why he didn't want LE to mention the chase to CA. I think this has been mentioned before, but there has to be some very compelling reason why he has changed his story on this. It has to connect to something very incriminating against KC...."Oh yes, George smelled that car on the gas cans day, June 24. No doubt in this mind.

Searchfortruth
05-08-2009, 10:38 PM
Oh yes, George smelled that car on the gas cans day, June 24. No doubt in this mind.George said, in one of the LE interviews, that Casey took off quickly after their "gas can" incident. Maybe he smelled the odor and later, after she was long gone, started to put two and two together...bad smell, Caylee not around. By the time the 29th rolls around, he sees Casey in Tony's car and tries to chase her down. He processed the thought of the smell and Caylee possibly being gone from the 24th to the 29th, and can't stand it anymore. George doesn't catch Casey on the 29th and maybe comes home and tells himself it couldn't be what he was thinking or maybe he talks to Cindy and relays his fears ? Starting July 1, I believe, the phone calls from Cindy to Casey increase dramatically, I mean there are a LOT of calls going on there..I don't know just some thoughts. There are so many variables in this case.

Chezhire
05-08-2009, 10:48 PM
George said, in one of the LE interviews, that Casey took off quickly after their "gas can" incident. Maybe he smelled the odor and later, after she was long gone, started to put two and two together...bad smell, Caylee not around. By the time the 29th rolls around, he sees Casey in Tony's car and tries to chase her down. He processed the thought of the smell and Caylee possibly being gone from the 24th to the 29th, and can't stand it anymore. George doesn't catch Casey on the 29th and maybe comes home and tells himself it couldn't be what he was thinking or maybe he talks to Cindy and relays his fears ? Starting July 1, I believe, the phone calls from Cindy to Casey increase dramatically, I mean there are a LOT of calls going on there..I don't know just some thoughts. There are so many variables in this case. Yeppers...
I've never believed George told Cindy what he smelled on June 24 prior to Cindy calling LE, as I can't imagine her calling & saying that the trunk smelled like a dead body had she known, too, but I could be convinced if someone had a grand theory...

JBean
05-08-2009, 10:50 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3249573&highlight=gas#post3249573

JWG
05-08-2009, 11:41 PM
relax hercule, i didn't know she was flat broke over that period of time, i thought she was robbing people blind left and right.

But he's right. She thought someone nearby would have a gas can - maybe with some $4 / gallon gas in it - and would bail her out. She was flat broke.