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SeriouslySearching
07-23-2008, 04:28 AM
We learned today that the car Casey had been driving had potential evidence that LE is currently running forensic tests on for blood, bodily fluids, dirt taken from the trunk, and hair which looked consistent with Caylee's. Two K-9s alerted in the same place in the trunk for decomposition and the in same place in the backyard of the Anthony's house.

The car was left at a check cashing parking lot (Amscot) on Goldenrod and Colonial on or about June 27th. It was picked up by the tow company on June 30th. George Anthony picked up the car from them on or about July 15.


Orange County Sheriff's Detective Yuri Melich said a car driven by Casey Anthony smelled of decomposition when investigators recovered it.

Casey Anthony's Pontiac was towed after being parked for days at an Orlando check-cashing business.

Detective Melich says it appeared that a stain, some dirt and 2-year-old Caylee's hair were in the trunk.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=e66bd3d1-1eb0-4843-b162-275e53cc4aa3

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2008, 04:30 AM
Deputy Jason Forgey is on the stand now. He is a dog handler. His dog, Gerus, is trained as a cadaver dog.

On July 17, Garus was used to search Casey's car for the smell of human remains. He alerted to the vehicle -- he jumped into the trunk.

The dog alerted to the odor of human decomposition in the trunk.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/caylee_anthony/index.html

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2008, 04:37 AM
Caylee's grandmother, Cindy Anthony, told the Sentinel that she received a letter informing her that the car was found abandoned and had been towed. The white 1998 Pontiac was towed June 30 from an Amscot Financial store at Colonial Drive and Goldenrod Road, said sheriff's spokesman Carlos Padilla.

"It had been with the wrecker a while before the family found out," Padilla said.

Caylee's mother, Casey Anthony, had been using the car to get around, records show. Cindy Anthony said she questioned her daughter about Caylee's whereabouts when she received the letter from the tow company.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/community/news/conway/orl-caylee2008jul20,0,2486087.story

Angel4Alpha
07-24-2008, 04:46 AM
Couple of questions about the car:

1) Do we know for certain that only Casey was driving/using it around the time it was abandoned?

2) Did the tow company notice/and or note the strong stench from the car when they towed it?

3) Do we know for certain that it was out of gas?

Thanks!

SeriouslySearching
07-24-2008, 04:53 AM
We don't know any of the answers to those questions yet. I wish we did!

Where were the keys? Did George use a set of spare keys to retrieve it? Did LE find the set that Casey was using during the time the car was driven to the parking lot? Did they test those keys for Caylee's DNA (blood, bodily fluids), dirt, or other forensic materials?

They would have had to notice the smell...unless this wasn't present until after they got the car back from the tow yard.

The gasoline could have been stolen while it sat in the lot for 3 days prior to towing.

miss lisa
07-24-2008, 07:58 AM
Was the car seat in the car? A blankie or a fav stuffed animal?

Also, I heard Dr. Baden on Greta last night say that forensic will be able to tell if the hair in the trunk was Caylee's BUT ALSO whether or not it was from an alive Caylee or a deceased Caylee! I have never heard that before.

PrayersForMaura
07-24-2008, 08:50 AM
Anthony's family insisted there was another reason for the smell.

"There was a bag of pizza for 12 days in a car full of maggots," Casey's mother Cynthia Anthony told reporters while leaving her daughter's bond hearing Tuesday.

"Do you think you would mistake the smell of a body for trash?" WFTV reporter Eric Rasmussen asked Weinblatt.

"Absolutely not. It's very, very distinctive," he said.

http://www.wftv.com/news/16968013/detail.html

PrayersForMaura
07-24-2008, 09:03 AM
Deputy Sheriff Jason Forgey also testified that a K-9 cadaver dog alerted to human decomposition in Anthony's car.

"(The dog) put his head inside the vehicle and looked straight to the back seat," Forgey said. "He alerted to the odor of human decomposition."

"In the trunk of the car?" an attorney asked.

"Yes," Forgey said.


http://www.local6.com/news/16962120/detail.html

comfort80
08-04-2008, 04:04 PM
i have a question about te stain...
a commentor on this article :
http://tinyurl.com/68p8oj
"it was such a big stain noone could have lived after losing that much fluid" (i paraphrased)
i also saw something similar in one of the threads here (no time to search at work)
can someone point me to a link or article that states the size of the stain?
TIA

Medea
08-04-2008, 04:17 PM
Okay, so the car was towed on June 30th...but had been abandoned for some time prior to that...

That means that whatever happened probably happened that first week, June 15th....

How does the timing on the car being abandoned track to the date when the shovel was borrowed and when Casey was seen backing the up to the house?

If this occured in mid-june...then its a fairly good bet that Caylee died VERY shortly after June 15th...

Nedthan Johns
08-04-2008, 04:23 PM
here is where I am confused. The car was towed on the 20th but Cindy waited until the 15th to call the police to report the car had been stollen? What was she driving in the meantime and what did they think happened to their car?

Medea
08-04-2008, 04:32 PM
Okay, I just checked the timeline...

Casey and Caylee move in w/Amy on the 9th.

Caylee last seen on the 15th.

On June 25th Casey tells Jesse she's free that weekend, Caylee w/babysitter.

Car towed June 30th.

*I don't see where it says on what date it was abandoned or low long it was there before being towed.

_______________________

So, it seems like Caylee was dead by the 25th, and probably disposed of by that time....making it very unlikely that her ex was correct that he heard Caylee in the background on the 24th...

If I was LE I would focus on the 16th-25th in terms of where Casey went, who she talked to and what she did.

Firesweep
08-04-2008, 04:37 PM
Okay, I just checked the timeline...

Casey and Caylee move in w/Amy on the 9th.

Caylee last seen on the 15th.

On June 25th Casey tells Jesse she's free that weekend, Caylee w/babysitter.

Car towed June 30th.

*I don't see where it says on what date it was abandoned or low long it was there before being towed.

_______________________

So, it seems like Caylee was dead by the 25th, and probably disposed of by that time....making it very unlikely that her ex was correct that he heard Caylee in the background on the 24th...

If I was LE I would focus on the 16th-25th in terms of where Casey went, who she talked to and what she did.


I agree.

Amberjack
08-04-2008, 05:35 PM
IMO Casey ditched the car at Amscot (after cashing some checks)
because of the strong odor.

When Casey left her purse inside the car....
Was that another "scenario" she wanted to create?
That both she & Caylee had been abducted?
i.e. ATTENTION from family & for them to ignore the TRUTH?

armywife210
08-04-2008, 07:10 PM
i have a question about te stain...
a commentor on this article :
http://tinyurl.com/68p8oj
"it was such a big stain noone could have lived after losing that much fluid" (i paraphrased)
i also saw something similar in one of the threads here (no time to search at work)
can someone point me to a link or article that states the size of the stain?
TIA

I, too, want to hear more about the stain.

awakewriter
08-05-2008, 06:13 PM
This thread is for all information regarding Casey's car, its contents, its locations, etc.

I thought it would be nice to have a separate thread for the car because so many people have questions about the car seat, the purse, the keys, the K-9 hit, hair samples and the stain.

Discuss. :)

Bobby62
08-05-2008, 06:17 PM
Car is listed at about $3,000 in value.

In the bond hearing didn't I hear the detective say that the dogs hit on the back seat and then he was corrected by an attorney to say trunk? I am unable to find that transcript. I feel that would be very important.

Blue_Dolphin308
08-05-2008, 06:29 PM
Car is listed at about $3,000 in value.

In the bond hearing didn't I hear the detective say that the dogs hit on the back seat and then he was corrected by an attorney to say trunk? I am unable to find that transcript. I feel that would be very important.

IIRC The dogs hit on the trunk only.

JBean
08-05-2008, 07:49 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67866

SeriouslySearching
08-07-2008, 08:15 AM
I talked to the owner of Tow Company yesterday. He said that the trunk of the car would not be opened if there was not an interior button and maybe not even then. We discussed the tow company employees knowing the decomp smell and he said many cars come in with horrible odors so unless a person was familiar with the decomp odor...it probably would have been overlooked and not reported to LE.

This could mean that Caylee's body was in the car the entire time at the Tow yard and George found it when they got the car home, imo.

TripleA
08-07-2008, 09:35 AM
Was it ever determined if the carseat was in the car or not? Was it in Amy's car still that Casey had been driving up until the day Amy came home and called Cindy?

ETA: I answered my own question. The carseat was left in the car.

websurfer
08-07-2008, 03:24 PM
My first thought was why would she leave the car in a lot?
Then I thought after reading many many thoughts and theorys,that she did not leave the car there because it ran out of gas,anybody could put gas in it and get it going.

no....the reason is the unbearable smell left by possibly having had Caylee in the trunk.
The pizza covered with flies & maggots
was because Caylee was on it.

I kept thinking of why would Cindy be so headstrong about the pizza and this is why I thought of this.
Cindy saw rotten pizza,she saw cleaning stuff,
ok the cleaning stuff did not get rid of the nasty smell of a dead body.
So the pizza was obviously under poor Caylee for however long she was in the trunk.
maybe she choked eating the pizza ?
After all...Casey really never had to look out for her day & night before.She always had help from the family.

So that is my PONTIAC theory....

CASuzk
08-18-2008, 01:24 PM
So Casey has been tooling around in a car that belongs to her parents.
BUT, she only has a learners permit.

I was under the impression that this car was a third family car and was for Casey's use. If this is true, were her parents just completely disregarding the law and letting her use it?

They had to know she didn't have a valid licence because they would had to have listed it on their insurance.
What would they have done if she'd had an accident?

vanluna
08-18-2008, 01:32 PM
I was under the impression that this car was a third family car and was for Casey's use. If this is true, were her parents just completely disregarding the law and letting her use it?

They had to know she didn't have a valid licence because they would had to have listed it on their insurance.
What would they have done if she'd had an accident?

I thought when Cindy called in to 911 originally she stated the car had been stolen. If it was for Casey's use why did she call and say the car was stolen?

I believe they let her use the car cause Casey gets what Casey wants or else the whole family pays a price. The Anthony's may have cooked up in their head that if anything ever happens (such as an accident) involving the car they will say they didn't give Casey permission to use it, she must have stolen it.....

LI_Mom
08-18-2008, 01:42 PM
So Casey has been tooling around in a car that belongs to her parents.
BUT, she only has a learners permit.

I was under the impression that this car was a third family car and was for Casey's use. If this is true, were her parents just completely disregarding the law and letting her use it?

They had to know she didn't have a valid licence because they would had to have listed it on their insurance.
What would they have done if she'd had an accident?

I wasn't aware of this & went looking for more info....

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/7/17/parents_concerned_over_casey_anthony39s_emotional_ state.html


Thursday, July 17, 2008

News 13 has learned that she does not have a driver's license, only a learner's permit, so it was unclear how she got around with her daughter.

---


Maybe her license lapsed AFTER they took out the policy & they never knew???

I mean... she doesn't bother telling them she lost her own child for 31 DAYS!!!!..... is she going to be responsible enough to tell them she doesn't have a valid license?

Liz
08-18-2008, 01:58 PM
Seems rather implausible that a 22-23 year old would be driving around with only a learner's permit! But hey! In this case, ANYthing's possible, I guess!

LI_Mom
08-18-2008, 01:58 PM
I thought when Cindy called in to 911 originally she stated the car had been stolen. If it was for Casey's use why did she call and say the car was stolen?

I believe they let her use the car cause Casey gets what Casey wants or else the whole family pays a price. The Anthony's may have cooked up in their head that if anything ever happens (such as an accident) involving the car they will say they didn't give Casey permission to use it, she must have stolen it.....

IIRC, the only way Cindy even found Casey is when Amy helped her track her down. Obviously Casey did NOT want to be bothered by her family.... she had to know they'd demand to see Caylee once they saw her.

Ooops..... no Caylee.....

By this time.... Cindy KNOWS there's a serious, serious problem & she reports the car stolen to scare Casey with the police.

You have to wonder if Amy would have kept Casey's location a secret IF she hadn't found out Casey stole her checks... I'm sure Amy was so disgusted w/ her by this time she was happy to put George & Cindy on her trail. lol

zadari
08-18-2008, 02:13 PM
My first thought was why would she leave the car in a lot?
Then I thought after reading many many thoughts and theorys,that she did not leave the car there because it ran out of gas,anybody could put gas in it and get it going.

no....the reason is the unbearable smell left by possibly having had Caylee in the trunk.
The pizza covered with flies & maggots
was because Caylee was on it.

I kept thinking of why would Cindy be so headstrong about the pizza and this is why I thought of this.
Cindy saw rotten pizza,she saw cleaning stuff,
ok the cleaning stuff did not get rid of the nasty smell of a dead body.
So the pizza was obviously under poor Caylee for however long she was in the trunk.
maybe she choked eating the pizza ?
After all...Casey really never had to look out for her day & night before.She always had help from the family.

So that is my PONTIAC theory....
oh god the thought of this makes me just cry omg :(

carole
08-18-2008, 02:27 PM
I don't think there ever was any pizza. It was just another of Casey's lies - hoping her mother would believe this was the reason for the smell.

LI_Mom
08-18-2008, 02:32 PM
I don't think there ever was any pizza. It was just another of Casey's lies - hoping her mother would believe this was the reason for the smell.

Well her parents were pretty descriptive about the rotting pizza & they were adamant that THIS was the cause of the death smell.

Either there really was a pizza in the trunk OR the parents concocted the story to protect Casey.

websurfer
08-18-2008, 02:47 PM
We learned today that the car Casey had been driving had potential evidence that LE is currently running forensic tests on for blood, bodily fluids, dirt taken from the trunk, and hair which looked consistent with Caylee's. Two K-9s alerted in the same place in the trunk for decomposition and the in same place in the backyard of the Anthony's house.

The car was left at a check cashing parking lot (Amscot) on Goldenrod and Colonial on or about June 27th. It was picked up by the tow company on June 30th. George Anthony picked up the car from them on or about July 15.


Orange County Sheriff's Detective Yuri Melich said a car driven by Casey Anthony smelled of decomposition when investigators recovered it.

Casey Anthony's Pontiac was towed after being parked for days at an Orlando check-cashing business.

Detective Melich says it appeared that a stain, some dirt and 2-year-old Caylee's hair were in the trunk.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=e66bd3d1-1eb0-4843-b162-275e53cc4aa3


That's why nobody tried to take it even with the purse on the front seat.Her idea was good,but the car kinda smelled making any theif think twice.

Chezhire
08-18-2008, 03:02 PM
oh god the thought of this makes me just cry omg :(

just when I thought it couldn't get any worse... it does.
Who out there still believes Caylee may have been in the trunk when George picks it up from impound, meaning at least he, and maybe Cindy, and maybe Lee, were in on the coverup???

curioussleuth
08-18-2008, 03:24 PM
just when I thought it couldn't get any worse... it does.
Who out there still believes Caylee may have been in the trunk when George picks it up from impound, meaning at least he, and maybe Cindy, and maybe Lee, were in on the coverup???

That thought has crossed my mind. But the only reason I do not think that is the case is because Cindy called the police and spouted her mouth. I don't think she knew when she called the police (maybe shortly thereafter however).

TGIRecovered
08-18-2008, 03:41 PM
If casey had no valid drivers license, how did she cash checks, buy booze, get in to clubs? I realize that a young pretty girl can talk her way past a doorman or the occasional liquor store employee, but it wouldn't work every time. Some places just won't risk losing their liquor license or paying a fine.

She must have had some kind of state issued picture ID. Maybe she used someone else's.

Susan

CASuzk
08-18-2008, 03:52 PM
I wasn't aware of this & went looking for more info....

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/7/17/parents_concerned_over_casey_anthony39s_emotional_ state.html


Thursday, July 17, 2008

News 13 has learned that she does not have a driver's license, only a learner's permit, so it was unclear how she got around with her daughter.

---


Maybe her license lapsed AFTER they took out the policy & they never knew???

I mean... she doesn't bother telling them she lost her own child for 31 DAYS!!!!..... is she going to be responsible enough to tell them she doesn't have a valid license?

If you've had a licence and it lapses, it is a lapsed licence. You wouldn't get a learners permit again but you would pay the fine for the licence lapse.
No, I'm afraid that Casey has never had a valid drivers licence.

TGIRecovered
08-18-2008, 04:33 PM
I live in Texas, and I put off renewing my old license for two years because I dread having my picture taken and my old pic was decent enough. I rearly use it since I don't go to bars or buy booze. I don't much use checks, just the debit card. I drive a minivan and keep a good lookout when I speed, and even then I'm not reckless, so I don't get stopped.

When I finally gave in and went to renew it, there was no extra fee at all, just the regular $18 for the new card. my new pic is really bad, so I keep the new one behind the old one in my wallet and only pull it out on the rare occasion that someone questions the date.

Functioning at Casey's age and lifestyle, without a valid picture license issued by the state would be very cumbersome.

Susan

CASuzk
08-18-2008, 04:44 PM
[/QUOTE]Functioning at Casey's age and lifestyle, without a valid picture license issued by the state would be very cumbersome.

Susan[/QUOTE] Snipped

Unless she had been using a fake one for years so that she could get into bars.

sweetwater
08-18-2008, 04:45 PM
If Casey had been listed as a driver on the insurance, they would have run a check on her license number and notified the car's owners that her license was not valid.
I keep hearing Cindy's infamous quote- "Lying is not against the law."

sleuthmommy
08-18-2008, 04:51 PM
Was the car towed on the 20th or the 30th from Amscot?

Is it really true that she did not have a valid driver's license? Sorry, posted this last question before reading more.

Very hard to believe she didn't have a driver's license. However, if she was of age, even with a learner's permit, she could still get into bars, etc. Or she could also just have a state ID.

sleuthmommy
08-18-2008, 04:52 PM
That thought has crossed my mind. But the only reason I do not think that is the case is because Cindy called the police and spouted her mouth. I don't think she knew when she called the police (maybe shortly thereafter however).

Just speculation here but could it be possible that when they called, they hadn't opened the trunk yet?

TURBOTHINK
08-19-2008, 01:17 AM
Just speculation here but could it be possible that when they called, they hadn't opened the trunk yet?

That has crossed my mind many times. I have wondered if George did find the baby and being in LE before decided to "take care of it" instead of letting Cindy or his son know to protect Casey.

I can't get a grip yet on his and Casey's relationship. It appears she had a love/hate relationship with her mother, sort of a one up type, but there has been very little said about hers and her father's relationship.

pregodego2
08-19-2008, 01:39 AM
I thought when Cindy called in to 911 originally she stated the car had been stolen. If it was for Casey's use why did she call and say the car was stolen?


cindy was just trying to get the police out there, IMO.

pregodego2
08-19-2008, 01:42 AM
IF baby caylee is gone from this world, i believe George found her that day on the 24th and helped casey cover up what he could. The most he would get is improper disposal of a body. IMO, George then told her to dtich the car at the earliest convenience. Hence why a little bit of truth seeped out when she calle Tony and said "pick me up, my dad said he'll take care of the car"

krimekat
08-19-2008, 01:52 AM
cindy was just trying to get the police out there, IMO.

threats

TURBOTHINK
08-19-2008, 01:58 AM
IF baby caylee is gone from this world, i believe George found her that day on the 24th and helped casey cover up what he could. The most he would get is improper disposal of a body. IMO, George then told her to dtich the car at the earliest convenience. Hence why a little bit of truth seeped out when she calle Tony and said "pick me up, my dad said he'll take care of the car"

I am a little confused. Didn't the wrecker service tow the car and then notify the grandparents? If the baby's body was in the car, didn't they smell anything? Has anything been said about LE interviewing the wrecker company employees?

Are you saying when they got the car back, he found the baby's body? I have wondered about that because he said once over the gas cans, he had the key and would get them himself. What day was that when he "found" the gas cans? I am mixed up on the timeline here.

Leila
08-19-2008, 03:03 AM
Was the car towed on the 20th or the 30th from Amscot?

Is it really true that she did not have a valid driver's license? Sorry, posted this last question before reading more.

Very hard to believe she didn't have a driver's license. However, if she was of age, even with a learner's permit, she could still get into bars, etc. Or she could also just have a state ID.

The car was towed from Amscot on June 20th.

MvD
08-19-2008, 03:11 AM
Was the car towed on the 20th or the 30th from Amscot?

Is it really true that she did not have a valid driver's license? Sorry, posted this last question before reading more.

Very hard to believe she didn't have a driver's license. However, if she was of age, even with a learner's permit, she could still get into bars, etc. Or she could also just have a state ID.

Im wondering if her license had been pulled for x amount of time because of her "seizure".. I think ER Doctors HAVE to report any seizures to the DMV... and then depending on the state, a license would be yanked until whatever time period had lapsed seizure free. Im not 100% sure, but here in VA, I think one must be at least 1 year seizure free in order to even apply for regaining their license.

txsvicki
08-19-2008, 03:16 AM
The car was towed from Amscot on June 20th.


I thought it was the 27th? George said Casey came home in the car on the 24th, so she would have still had the car on the 20th.

pregodego2
08-19-2008, 03:17 AM
I am a little confused. Didn't the wrecker service tow the car and then notify the grandparents? If the baby's body was in the car, didn't they smell anything? Has anything been said about LE interviewing the wrecker company employees?

Are you saying when they got the car back, he found the baby's body? I have wondered about that because he said once over the gas cans, he had the key and would get them himself. What day was that when he "found" the gas cans? I am mixed up on the timeline here.

George claims casey showed up on the 24th of june. He went into the car to get the wedge he needed so that he could rotate cindy's car tires and found the gas cans. IMO, i think he also found caylee, not alive and helped his daughter cover it up. Telling her to ditch the car asap, so she does in the Amscot parking lot.

Leila
08-19-2008, 03:23 AM
IF baby caylee is gone from this world, i believe George found her that day on the 24th and helped casey cover up what he could. The most he would get is improper disposal of a body. IMO, George then told her to dtich the car at the earliest convenience. Hence why a little bit of truth seeped out when she calle Tony and said "pick me up, my dad said he'll take care of the car"

I'm not sure the events of June 24th even happened. All we have is George's word on it. In the very beginning of this case, when the grandparents were interviewed for the first time, they said they hadn't seen Casey or Caylee since June 9th, and that was later revised to June 15th when it became known that the video of Caylee reading was taken on June 15th - Father's Day. There was never any mention that either Cindy or George had seen Casey until July 15th, when Cindy found her and brought her home.

George made a police report on June 24th that someone had broken into his shed and stole two gas cans. This was never mentioned until after police came about two weeks ago and searched the shed and took the two gas cans, which George had found and put back in the shed.

It becomes an issue of WHEN George found the gas cans in the car and put them back in the shed. If he found the gas cans on July 15th when he drove the car home from the impound yard, George could be charged with tampering with evidence. At some point he took the gas cans out of the car and put them back in the shed, without telling police that he had recovered the gas cans that he had reported stolen.

After the police come and searched the shed and took the two gas cans, George suddenly remembered that Casey had come by on June 24th a few hours after he had made that police report. If that really happened, as he says it did, why didn't he call the police and tell them he had recovered the two gas cans? All he had to say was that his daughter took them and he didn't want to press charges.

Leila
08-19-2008, 03:25 AM
I thought it was the 27th? George said Casey came home in the car on the 24th, so she would have still had the car on the 20th.

My mistake.........a typo. It was the 30th. I hit the two instead of the three. But it was the 30th. The car was abandoned on June 27th according to some reports.

pregodego2
08-19-2008, 03:33 AM
The poor gas cans had no idea what they were getting themselves into when they jumped in casey's hands and forced her to take them into her..ahem her parent's...car :doh:

I did notice that George hadn't said that he knew who took the gas cans until the Greta interview. He always maintained this "i don't know" attitude. Then there was the "oh we know who took them, they returned them and it has nothing to do with this case" THEN comes the Greta interview and im sure lots of people were sitting there dumbfounded if they even realized what he just said. Took him long enough to conjur up that story though huh? Unfortunately, we will probably NEVER know the truth about the gas cans.

sleuthmommy
08-19-2008, 09:56 AM
My mistake.........a typo. It was the 30th. I hit the two instead of the three. But it was the 30th. The car was abandoned on June 27th according to some reports.

Thank you for clarifying.

sundae
08-19-2008, 11:08 AM
Was it confirmed by LE that the carseat was found in the Pontiac? Or was it not there? I had thought it was in there when the Pontiac was found, although there are conflicting media reports.

Can anyone lead me as to where to find the info for this? Thank you.

krimekat
08-19-2008, 12:07 PM
Was it confirmed by LE that the carseat was found in the Pontiac? Or was it not there? I had thought it was in there when the Pontiac was found, although there are conflicting media reports.

Can anyone lead me as to where to find the info for this? Thank you.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69243

check it out

Faythe13
08-23-2008, 11:46 AM
Ok..kinda "bumping" this thread up a little here. Not sure if anyone cares, but a couple of questions were asked that I might be able to answer. Used to work in car insurance.

1) As far as I know when registering a car you don't have to list who the driver is. The car just has to be insured. So if the LE ran the plates they wouldn't know who the driver was, they would just know that at the time it was not reported stolen and who the registered owner is. The insurance company would not have been notified that the car was impounded. So no one would have known if Casey had a operator's license and it lapsed.

IMHO: I tend to believe she just had a learner's permit. I didn't get my operator's license until I was in my mid 20's :P I was still able to go to clubs, buy liquor, etc. I had a state issued ID, with picture. Still have to go to DMV here in Tx to do that, though.

2) The thing about the seizure. I have never heard of a doctor or hospital alerting motor vehicles when someone has a seizure. I would think that HIPAA laws would come into place, and I used to work with about 45 different states for car insurance..I can't recall ONE person ever calling me and saying, "My license was suspended because the doctor/hospital advised motor vehicles and my license has been lapsed/suspended". People would have called to try to get listed as a non operator and save money. At least I would think so. I would have them call and say "I've turned in my license and want to be shown as a non operator..why should I pay premium for something I can't do?". Also we would run motor vehicle reports at least once a year on our insureds. License suspensions do come up, as well as the reason why.

Hope this answers a couple of questions. :)

JBean
08-23-2008, 11:55 AM
Ok..kinda "bumping" this thread up a little here. Not sure if anyone cares, but a couple of questions were asked that I might be able to answer. Used to work in car insurance.

1) As far as I know when registering a car you don't have to list who the driver is. The car just has to be insured. So if the LE ran the plates they wouldn't know who the driver was, they would just know that at the time it was not reported stolen and who the registered owner is. The insurance company would not have been notified that the car was impounded. So no one would have known if Casey had a operator's license and it lapsed.

IMHO: I tend to believe she just had a learner's permit. I didn't get my operator's license until I was in my mid 20's :P I was still able to go to clubs, buy liquor, etc. I had a state issued ID, with picture. Still have to go to DMV here in Tx to do that, though.

2) The thing about the seizure. I have never heard of a doctor or hospital alerting motor vehicles when someone has a seizure. I would think that HIPAA laws would come into place, and I used to work with about 45 different states for car insurance..I can't recall ONE person ever calling me and saying, "My license was suspended because the doctor/hospital advised motor vehicles and my license has been lapsed/suspended". People would have called to try to get listed as a non operator and save money. At least I would think so. I would have them call and say "I've turned in my license and want to be shown as a non operator..why should I pay premium for something I can't do?". Also we would run motor vehicle reports at least once a year on our insureds. License suspensions do come up, as well as the reason why.

Hope this answers a couple of questions. :)
Couple comments for you and I can only base this on California.
Learner's permits are only required for people that are under 18. I think in FL this is the same. So it doesn't add up that she would have a learner's permit imo, she is too old. unless it was issued when she was between 14 and 17 (depending on state law) and even then it would have surely expired.

The hospitals here in Cali are required to notify the DMV when someone presents with a seizure, but not sure about FL. My sons license was suspended for one of his seizures almost immediately because he went to the ER.

JBean
08-23-2008, 12:07 PM
Looks like it is optional for drivers over 18 to get a permit. So she very well could have had one:

If you are 18 years or older, you are not required to retain a learners license but you still must complete the required course and tests before going in for a behind-the-wheel driving test
http://www.dmvflorida.org/drivers-license.shtml

OR


First Time Driver

Anyone getting their first drivers license in Florida must take the required DATA course and DMV Test. This applies to adults and teens alike. If you are over 18 you would do the following to get your first drivers license:



Complete the first time driver course (DATA)
Complete the DMV test - at this point you can get your learner permit if desired
Take the Behind the Wheel driving test at your local DMV
Get your Operators License
http://www.dmvflorida.org/learners-permit.shtml

feddup
08-23-2008, 01:41 PM
I think you have to go a full yr down here with no seizures before you can reapply for your drivers license.

Also....if you only have a learners permit, you can only drive with another licensed driver in the car. You can apply for your learners
permit when you are 15. At least, that is how it was back in my day. You have to take a driving course before you can apply for your
drivers license.

marleysmom
08-23-2008, 01:48 PM
From FL DMV

Seizures

If you're applying for a driver's license and indicate you either suffer from epilepsy or have experienced a seizure within the past 24 months, you'll be sent a medical review form. Take the form to your doctor, who must complete it and mail it to the state.

The medical review board will examine the report. Normally, if you've been under regular doctor's care and have been without seizures for at least six months, the board will approve your application.

If you're issued a favorable ruling, you can be granted a license after passing the routine driver's license tests. However, the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles has the final say on if you receive a license.

If you're granted a license without alerting the state about your seizures or medical condition, you risk having your license revoked at a later date.

Periodic medical testing will be required to keep your driver's license. Ask the Division of Driver Licenses for specific information regarding testing and your particular situation.

Should you be a currently licensed driver and experience a seizure for the first time, report the episode immediately to the DDL. You'll be instructed by the agency as to what to do next.

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/medical-considerations.php#Seizures

Faythe13
08-23-2008, 01:50 PM
The hospitals here in Cali are required to notify the DMV when someone presents with a seizure, but not sure about FL. My sons license was suspended for one of his seizures almost immediately because he went to the ER.


Wow hope your son is ok. Interesting about Cali. Never once got a call from anyone there in Cali to be taken off their insurance or have their kid taken off for lic suspension due to med reasons. Most would call to say they turned in their lic for med reasons and wanted to be taken off the insurance. Thanks for the info.

JBean
08-23-2008, 02:39 PM
Wow hope your son is ok. Interesting about Cali. Never once got a call from anyone there in Cali to be taken off their insurance or have their kid taken off for lic suspension due to med reasons. Most would call to say they turned in their lic for med reasons and wanted to be taken off the insurance. Thanks for the info.

If my son was on my policy and his license were suspended, I would not remove him unless his license were revoked.
But our cars are insured rather than the individual driver. But what driver is assigned to the car determines how high the premium is.

Faythe13
08-23-2008, 03:34 PM
If my son was on my policy and his license were suspended, I would not remove him unless his license were revoked.
But our cars are insured rather than the individual driver. But what driver is assigned to the car determines how high the premium is.


Sorry O/T, but curious: Did whoever he was insured with ever pull the suspension when they ran motor vehicle reports? Also, totally the truth about the assigned driver determining premium..I'd hear the complaints about that at least once a day. :P

JBean
08-23-2008, 03:37 PM
Sorry O/T, but curious: Did whoever he was insured with ever pull the suspension when they ran motor vehicle reports. Also, totally the truth about the assigned driver determining premium..I'd hear the complaints about that at least once a day. :P
I think a medical suspension is differnt than a did something bad suspension? I don;t know if they ever spotted it.
he is currently on medical probation. He must turn in a current doctor evaluation every 6 months without fail. It must be faxed directly from the doctors office.
last time, the dr forgot to fax it and my sons license was suspended that day. boom.
It was striaghtened out, but they don;t mess around.

Firefly
08-23-2008, 06:20 PM
Wow, interesting thread.

Man, if the GP's had knowledge of Caylee's body being in the car and helped tie up the loose ends....what a thought. We know they have been "pinging" Casey's whereabouts. My question is.....Have they "pinged" either one of the grandparents or her brother, or anyone else for that matter during any point in the timeline? We might get more info if we widen the suspect pool. If my own child possible lost/killed my own grandchild......they would be the last person I would want to protect. I am sure they are regretting having Casey in the house. They are now ALL jailed by the media. Sorry, my mind seems to stray.

Getting back to topic....
The Pizza being in the car and Cindy trying to say that that was the stench that the dogs hit on is insane. They wouldn't be CADAVER dogs if they hit on old pizza. They are trained to ONLY hit on decomp smells. She is an RN and she must know death smells and she knows and will always know "something is wrong".....her words exactly.

CASuzk
08-23-2008, 06:36 PM
Ok, pardon me it this has been covered before BUT, why didn't Casey tell anyone about the car?? Why not, "Hey Mom and Dad, I ran out of gas" or "I left the car at xxxx and I need you to get it home"?????
My kids know to call auto club if they need something for one of the cars, no charge to them, all they need is our auto club info. They don't need to get in touch with me to take care of a car on our policy.
The Anthony's look pretty tightly wrapped, I'd be willing to bet they have similar coverage.

Firefly
08-23-2008, 06:47 PM
Ok, pardon me it this has been covered before BUT, why didn't Casey tell anyone about the car?? Why not, "Hey Mom and Dad, I ran out of gas" or "I left the car at xxxx and I need you to get it home"?????
My kids know to call auto club if they need something for one of the cars, no charge to them, all they need is our auto club info. They don't need to get in touch with me to take care of a car on our policy.
The Anthony's look pretty tightly wrapped, I'd be willing to bet they have similar coverage.

IMHO, the car was a "plant" for someone to steal.....bait the purse.....***Edited to add* Keys in the ignition. I think she hoped that some poor smuck would take it and then be someone she could point a finger at and ask what did you do with my daughter!!! She then would have "initially" had the world looking at her as a mother that we should all feel for.....she couldn't do this on her own laurels so she was hoping that by tricking someone into taking the fall she could skate on this.
I think if car had been stolen from there we would have all been duped for awhile into thinking she was innocent. Alas, the car was towed. End of story.

icherish
08-23-2008, 07:32 PM
Ok, pardon me it this has been covered before BUT, why didn't Casey tell anyone about the car?? Why not, "Hey Mom and Dad, I ran out of gas" or "I left the car at xxxx and I need you to get it home"?????
My kids know to call auto club if they need something for one of the cars, no charge to them, all they need is our auto club info. They don't need to get in touch with me to take care of a car on our policy.
The Anthony's look pretty tightly wrapped, I'd be willing to bet they have similar coverage.


My opinion is Casey abandoned the car because it stunk to high heaven. Probably tried to clean it (iirc, cleaning fluid was found in the car). When that didn't work she parked it somewhere, figuring a little time might do the trick. Of course in reality, nothing will get that smell out...

BondJamesBond
10-06-2008, 11:27 AM
...wasn't certain of the best thread for this, but, I spun the wheel and landed on "The Pontiac". If anyone else has a better suggestion, let me know and I'll move it on over...

Someone w/ more knowledge please prove me wrong on the following theory:


6/14 Amy drops a car @ Tony's apartment. Texts suggest it is the car Amy wrecked. Context of the texts suggest to me it is still driveable.
Cell pings on the afternoon of 6/27 suggest to me several back-n-forth trips between Tony's apartment & Amscott
William W. interview alleges a mechanic repairing a car w/ decomp odor


I know earlier posters indicated that post-'9X model vehicles have a screen in the tank fill to prevent siphoning, BUT, under the circumstances...IMHO, this could've been defeated...

Could Casey (perhaps w/ Tony's assist or alone w/ the use of his Grand Cherokee) have been making return trips to Amscott 6/27PM to siphon gas into a can until it was empty to (a) synch w/ her story that it ran out of gas, and/or (b) gas up the wreck Amy left @ Tony's apartment complex?

Could Amy's wreck have then been used for Casey to drive to Amscott to transfer the body for disposal post-6/27PM?

I dunno how credible the William W. mechanic story is @ this point.

Has Amy's wrecked car been accounted for yet?

bullet225ho
10-06-2008, 11:44 AM
To defeat the screen on the filler nozzle would be hard. It is possible,,,but not going to happen as far as I'm concerned.

If the screen was defeated and the were able to get a hose in the tank to syphon fuel..........they would never have gotten all the fuel out. The car would have started at the tow yard and ran until the fuel from the pump, lines etc was ran out. this could be several minutes ideling or 1/2 mile driving.

If the car would not start. the lines where dry and the car either ran out of gas while being driven and coasted into the Amscot, ran out and pushed into Amscot, or parked in Amscot and ran out while ideling.

BondJamesBond
10-06-2008, 03:55 PM
To defeat the screen on the filler nozzle would be hard. It is possible,,,but not going to happen as far as I'm concerned.

If the screen was defeated and the were able to get a hose in the tank to syphon fuel..........they would never have gotten all the fuel out. The car would have started at the tow yard and ran until the fuel from the pump, lines etc was ran out. this could be several minutes ideling or 1/2 mile driving.

If the car would not start. the lines where dry and the car either ran out of gas while being driven and coasted into the Amscot, ran out and pushed into Amscot, or parked in Amscot and ran out while ideling.

Thanks, bullet. I hear what your sayin' though about defeating the screen not being a trivial thing.

IMHO, after getting the bulk of the gas out via siphoning Casey would've run/idled the engine until it quit.

I've just been noodlin' on what would require the repeat return trips between Tony's apt. & Amscot. Siphoning out the gas is a plausible (maybe not probable) explanation, IMHO. Her clothes & groceries could've easily been transfered into the larger Grand Cherokee in a single trip, or even two trips if she got the use of Tony's Jeep.

On a related note, for grins I speculated Casey's text about "threatening to kill someone last night" had something to do with someone getting too close to opening the trunk of the Pontiac or Amy's wrecked car (e.g. friend offered to help her retrieve the Pontiac if she complained about it breaking down or outta fuel, or if WW mechanic story relates to Pontiac or Amy's car being repaired and mech wanted access to trunk).

Insomnia Momma
10-06-2008, 05:50 PM
...wasn't certain of the best thread for this, but, I spun the wheel and landed on "The Pontiac". If anyone else has a better suggestion, let me know and I'll move it on over...

Someone w/ more knowledge please prove me wrong on the following theory:


6/14 Amy drops a car @ Tony's apartment. Texts suggest it is the car Amy wrecked. Context of the texts suggest to me it is still driveable.
Cell pings on the afternoon of 6/27 suggest to me several back-n-forth trips between Tony's apartment & Amscott
William W. interview alleges a mechanic repairing a car w/ decomp odor


I know earlier posters indicated that post-'9X model vehicles have a screen in the tank fill to prevent siphoning, BUT, under the circumstances...IMHO, this could've been defeated...

Could Casey (perhaps w/ Tony's assist or alone w/ the use of his Grand Cherokee) have been making return trips to Amscott 6/27PM to siphon gas into a can until it was empty to (a) synch w/ her story that it ran out of gas, and/or (b) gas up the wreck Amy left @ Tony's apartment complex?

Could Amy's wreck have then been used for Casey to drive to Amscott to transfer the body for disposal post-6/27PM?

I dunno how credible the William W. mechanic story is @ this point.

Has Amy's wrecked car been accounted for yet?



IIRC Amy had her car towed to TL's apt complex before it could be sold off for parts. In the conversation via texts AH was worried about having it towed more than once. She wanted to make sure it was ok to be left at the apt complex so she didn't have to keep paying for towing. Also, insurance considered her car a total loss, I doubt it would have been driveable. Kwim? I'll look up the info and post doc numbers for you to read this.

Pink Panther
10-06-2008, 05:57 PM
IMHO, the car was a "plant" for someone to steal.....bait the purse.....***Edited to add* Keys in the ignition. I think she hoped that some poor smuck would take it and then be someone she could point a finger at and ask what did you do with my daughter!!! She then would have "initially" had the world looking at her as a mother that we should all feel for.....she couldn't do this on her own laurels so she was hoping that by tricking someone into taking the fall she could skate on this.
I think if car had been stolen from there we would have all been duped for awhile into thinking she was innocent. Alas, the car was towed. End of story.

The keys were not in the ignition. The car was locked.

PrayersForMaura
10-06-2008, 06:11 PM
I seriously think Caylee was in the car more than once after she died and was in there for several days, hence the lingering stench.

Poor little angel :(

celebraion
10-06-2008, 09:25 PM
Thanks, bullet. I hear what your sayin' though about defeating the screen not being a trivial thing.

IMHO, after getting the bulk of the gas out via siphoning Casey would've run/idled the engine until it quit.

I've just been noodlin' on what would require the repeat return trips between Tony's apt. & Amscot. Siphoning out the gas is a plausible (maybe not probable) explanation, IMHO. Her clothes & groceries could've easily been transfered into the larger Grand Cherokee in a single trip, or even two trips if she got the use of Tony's Jeep.

On a related note, for grins I speculated Casey's text about "threatening to kill someone last night" had something to do with someone getting too close to opening the trunk of the Pontiac or Amy's wrecked car (e.g. friend offered to help her retrieve the Pontiac if she complained about it breaking down or outta fuel, or if WW mechanic story relates to Pontiac or Amy's car being repaired and mech wanted access to trunk).
Maybe she kept doing "drive by" runs, just to see if the car was still there at the Amscott.

BondJamesBond
10-07-2008, 08:06 AM
Maybe she kept doing "drive by" runs, just to see if the car was still there at the Amscott.

That's possible. They were very short intervals between return trips though, IIRC.

BondJamesBond
10-17-2008, 10:53 AM
...adding post to this thread as I see this question coming up on recent "siting" threads and on several NG threads, but, believe it will be easier to associate w/ the Pontiac for future reference.

RE: Sticker(s) on the Pontiac

On the stock video of the Pontiac in the forensics bay, in a split-second close-up a 4-leaf clover sticker is visible on the rear window. It is placed near the bottom center of the rear window. It is visible in the video through the front windshield and appears to be ~4-6" in tall by ~3-4" wide.

lizzysf
10-17-2008, 12:18 PM
It really sucks that the Anthonys had the car on the 16th and LE didn't get it from them until the 17th. I am sure the evidence in the car all added up to the Anthonys on the 16th. Who the heck knows what was removed by them..we will never know. Let's just hope what was left behind is strong enough to convict.

karen7868
10-17-2008, 12:30 PM
I thought the car looked all shiny and clean in the photos they showed with forensics. You would think it would be pretty dusty/dirty from sitting in a tow yard for 2 weeks.

JMO.

alwaysonmymind
10-17-2008, 12:31 PM
I thought the car looked all shiny and clean in the photos they showed with forensics. You would think it would be pretty dusty/dirty from sitting in a tow yard for 2 weeks.

JMO.

Really good observation.:clap:

BondJamesBond
10-17-2008, 02:20 PM
I won't be able to pour over statements anytime soon, but, would like to know if another WS can answer a quick one for me...

In the last statement released by Tow-Yard-Guy, does he give clear indication of the contents of the trunk more so than was in the first released statement? IOW, IIRC, in the first statement, he recalled the smell and related to his personal previous experience of decomp from prior suicide, & George commenting on missing daughter/gdaughter, T-Y-G/George pulled the white trash bag out, peered in to see pizza, flies & papers, and tossed it over to the dumpster.

Did T-Y-G make any statement regarding any other contents in the trunk at all? Empty besides the blue crate? Other bags present?

TIA!

Brini
10-17-2008, 02:38 PM
Couple of questions about the car:

1) Do we know for certain that only Casey was driving/using it around the time it was abandoned?

2) Did the tow company notice/and or note the strong stench from the car when they towed it?

3) Do we know for certain that it was out of gas?

Thanks!

It was out of gas. KC was the only one driving it. Two employees, including the manager, complained about the stench. The tow truck driver didn't, but he said he had a heavy cold.

Brini
10-17-2008, 02:42 PM
Ok, pardon me it this has been covered before BUT, why didn't Casey tell anyone about the car?? Why not, "Hey Mom and Dad, I ran out of gas" or "I left the car at xxxx and I need you to get it home"?????
My kids know to call auto club if they need something for one of the cars, no charge to them, all they need is our auto club info. They don't need to get in touch with me to take care of a car on our policy.
The Anthony's look pretty tightly wrapped, I'd be willing to bet they have similar coverage.

LE said they think KC hoped the car would just disappear into the impound yard.

It didn't happen.

Brini
10-17-2008, 02:45 PM
Maybe she kept doing "drive by" runs, just to see if the car was still there at the Amscott.

That's what I think.

BondJamesBond
11-25-2008, 10:50 AM
Carrying the following post over from another thread as it is relevant speculation as to why & how the Pontiac was in temporary storage @ Amscot...


I think Casey definitely wanted to get the Pontiac also.I'm not going with the theory that she wanted it to get towed or stolen.But, was it left there on purpose that day so she could borrow TONE's and because she had to take him to the airport and she didn't want him in her car for obvious reasons.Did she have unfinished business? Things left in the car? or is this simple she obviously needed a car.??

That's absolutely brilliant, WAISI! :clap:


Casey knew Tony didn't like her driving his Jeep GC
Casey KNEW <6/27 he'd EXPECT her to drop him @ the airport 6/30AM
Casey HAD to come up with a way NOT to take Tony to the airport in the Pontiac owing to the smell & he'd want to put his stuff in the trunk (no body, just smell)
Casey had to ENSURE the Pontiac alibi to Tony would jive with her not retrieving the Pontiac <6/30, hence, she tells Tony its broken-and-Dad'll-get-it vs. outta gas. Casey may run it outta gas just to ensure it won't start if Tony wants to try it himself when he rescues her 6/27.
Casey didn't rush to gas up the Pontiac before 6/29 since she didn't want it back until 6/30 and her story to Tony was that George would handle it, so, she must've given him some story about needing his Jeep 6/29AM to go get something...she couldn't enlist his help for gas cans again...that would've busted her story.

Casey's plan didn't account for Amscot paying attention to the car.

Brilliant, Whyamisointerested, absolutely brilliant! I'm carrying this post over to the Pontiac thread for convenience. :bowdown:

Pink Panther
11-25-2008, 11:07 AM
Carrying the following post over from another thread as it is relevant speculation as to why & how the Pontiac was in temporary storage @ Amscot...



That's absolutely brilliant, WAISI! :clap:


Casey knew Tony didn't like her driving his Jeep GC
Casey KNEW <6/27 he'd EXPECT her to drop him @ the airport 6/30AM
Casey HAD to come up with a way NOT to take Tony to the airport in the Pontiac owing to the smell & he'd want to put his stuff in the trunk (no body, just smell)
Casey had to ENSURE the Pontiac alibi to Tony would jive with her not retrieving the Pontiac <6/30, hence, she tells Tony its broken-and-Dad'll-get-it vs. outta gas. Casey may run it outta gas just to ensure it won't start if Tony wants to try it himself when he rescues her 6/27.
Casey didn't rush to gas up the Pontiac before 6/29 since she didn't want it back until 6/30 and her story to Tony was that George would handle it, so, she must've given him some story about needing his Jeep 6/29AM to go get something...she couldn't enlist his help for gas cans again...that would've busted her story.
Casey's plan didn't account for Amscot paying attention to the car.

Brilliant, Whyamisointerested, absolutely brilliant! I'm carrying this post over to the Pontiac thread for convenience. :bowdown:

Except for the "out of gas" business (which I'm not sure on), I completely agree. I have never believed that she was abandoning the car and I always felt that she was finding a way to NOT have to drive Tony to the airport in it. I think she intended to go back for it but waited too long. In my own twisted little way, I get such a kick out of looking at the pings for the 30th when she leaves Amy's, drives by the Amscot, heads up to Tony's then comes back again and over to Amy's. She must have been chitting her pants!

(Hey Bond, I said this a while ago but I never got that little "bow down" siggy...:crazy:)

Whyamisointerested
11-25-2008, 11:47 AM
Except for the "out of gas" business (which I'm not sure on), I completely agree. I have never believed that she was abandoning the car and I always felt that she was finding a way to NOT have to drive Tony to the airport in it. I think she intended to go back for it but waited too long. In my own twisted little way, I get such a kick out of looking at the pings for the 30th when she leaves Amy's, drives by the Amscot, heads up to Tony's then comes back again and over to Amy's. She must have been chitting her pants!

(Hey Bond, I said this a while ago but I never got that little "bow down" siggy...:crazy:)
Ok great were on the same page!!
In other threads mentioned we talked about gas. I think if we go with this idea all the gas was for the cars, and because she didn't have $4 a gallon for gas., not for anything else, is what I'm thinking . What are you thinking about the "out of gas" business?

BondJamesBond
11-25-2008, 12:06 PM
In my own twisted little way, I get such a kick out of looking at the pings for the 30th when she leaves Amy's, drives by the Amscot, heads up to Tony's then comes back again and over to Amy's. She must have been chitting her pants!

(Hey Bond, I said this a while ago but I never got that little "bow down" siggy...:crazy:)

*snipped*

:) Hey Pink. Sorry I missed it...I'm slow. If you'll allow...here's one :bowdown: and with some acrued interest :bowdown: :)

...I hafta admit there are a few scenes in that little movie that runs in my head (narrated by the voices) I quite enjoy my-own-twisted-self...Yes...affirmative on the soiling of said pants...and if she did laundry @ Amy & Ric's that day well, then...now we know :)

Also enjoy Amy's shot back 'bout not having the gas cans outta storage yet [cause Casey'd been leading her on about moving in] ouch...that one bit her in the arse, dint it?!?

Tony surely having Casey's phone 7/15 ~9:30PM after he just called Amy on it when both Andy F & Will W text. bwahahaaa...Casey had some 'splainin' to do...and prolly why she was desperate to get Tony's # in that call w/ Lee from jail.

...ok...off-topic silliness...carry on!

JWG
11-25-2008, 12:28 PM
That's absolutely brilliant, WAISI! :clap:


Casey knew Tony didn't like her driving his Jeep GC
Casey KNEW <6/27 he'd EXPECT her to drop him @ the airport 6/30AM
Casey HAD to come up with a way NOT to take Tony to the airport in the Pontiac owing to the smell & he'd want to put his stuff in the trunk (no body, just smell)
Casey had to ENSURE the Pontiac alibi to Tony would jive with her not retrieving the Pontiac <6/30, hence, she tells Tony its broken-and-Dad'll-get-it vs. outta gas. Casey may run it outta gas just to ensure it won't start if Tony wants to try it himself when he rescues her 6/27.
Casey didn't rush to gas up the Pontiac before 6/29 since she didn't want it back until 6/30 and her story to Tony was that George would handle it, so, she must've given him some story about needing his Jeep 6/29AM to go get something...she couldn't enlist his help for gas cans again...that would've busted her story.

Casey's plan didn't account for Amscot paying attention to the car.

Brilliant, Whyamisointerested, absolutely brilliant! I'm carrying this post over to the Pontiac thread for convenience. :bowdown:

I agree...brilliant.

This is probably the most far-thinking KC did in this whole case. Isn't it kind of neat seeing the best-laid plans utterly fall apart?

ThatGirlizNuts
11-25-2008, 02:40 PM
I agree...brilliant.

This is probably the most far-thinking KC did in this whole case. Isn't it kind of neat seeing the best-laid plans utterly fall apart?

My best laid plans falling apart never looked like this! Ha. :doh:

cocoamom
11-28-2008, 10:41 PM
On NG tonight during GA's interview with LE he was telling the story we have all heard about going to the car to get a wedge out to rotate Cindy's tires. This was the day that KC shoved the gas cans at him so he couldn't get close to the trunk.

He said something to the effect of "I really ratchet those bolts down"(sic) in the trunk. He was relating to LE how he tightens the bolts down in the trunk on the wedges and how KC wouldn't be able to get it out of the trunk...this talk about ratcheting the bolts down is not what he was saying to KC, he was simply stating this to LE.

My question: WTH is he talking about? There are no wedges bolted down in the trunk!! I wasn't 100% sure so I asked my car engine guru DH and he said no. There are aftermarket rubber wedges and such but there isn't any such thing as wedges or wheel chocks that bolt in the trunk of any car he knows of.

Anyone?:waitasec:

Baznme
11-28-2008, 10:48 PM
On NG tonight during GA's interview with LE he was telling the story we have all heard about going to the car to get a wedge out to rotate Cindy's tires. This was the day that KC shoved the gas cans at him so he couldn't get close to the trunk.

He said something to the effect of "I really ratchet those bolts down"(sic) in the trunk. He was relating to LE how he tightens the bolts down in the trunk on the wedges and how KC wouldn't be able to get it out of the trunk...this talk about ratcheting the bolts down is not what he was saying to KC, he was simply stating this to LE.

My question: WTH is he talking about? There are no wedges bolted down in the trunk!! I wasn't 100% sure so I asked my car engine guru DH and he said no. There are aftermarket rubber wedges and such but there isn't any such thing as wedges or wheel chocks that bolt in the trunk of any car he knows of.

Anyone?:waitasec:


I caught it too Cocoamom! I think I know what he is talking about. The spare tire sits under a tire cover in the center of the trunk where the stain is. You loosen a screw in the center of the cover to lift the cover to enable you to get the spare tire out of the wheel well. I think that's where Caylee was. That must have been how the stain got there. The chucks are "wedges", usually made out of wood or plastic that you put behind your wheels to keep it from rolling. That's where one of the chucks was and that is what GA was telling KC he could get by himself. She was going to do what she had to - to keep GA from getting into that trunk, so she diverted him with his (expletive) gas cans. Caylee was in the wheel well!!!! I'd bet money on it.

DotsEyes
11-28-2008, 10:52 PM
First, LE did not wait 2 days to pick up the car. The A's had it home on the 15th and it was towed away after KC's arrest on the 16th. Prior to it being towed away, an officer had sealed it with crime tape. Not even 24 hours passed since LE arrived and the car towed.

Second - for all of you medical types out there, please answer this question for me:

If someone losses a little chunk of scalp due to an injury to the head, will the hair attached to that piece of scalp display a death band as the tissue decomposes?

Just wondering.

DotsEyes
11-28-2008, 10:54 PM
Maybe GA stored the chuck in the wheel well?

ledwards
11-28-2008, 10:56 PM
Did he ever get the wheel chucks?

Baznme
11-28-2008, 10:58 PM
Maybe GA stored the chuck in the wheel well?


He described "torqueing" something down in the trunk tonite on NG and that is where the chuck was, according to GA. You torque the screw down on the wheel cover in a Pontiac Sunfire where the spare is stored.

That had to be what he was talking about. There are pic's of a Pontiac Sunfire wheel well on here somewhere that Gigi2009 had put on here. I'll try to find it and bring it over.

Short_Stuff
11-28-2008, 11:02 PM
I do not think George had anything to do with helping in Caylees death. I think the dates are wrong in estimates of Caylees death by LE or George has the dates wrong when Casey came by, or he would have smelled the car, and also why didnt Tony smell it too that day he picked her up?

ledwards
11-28-2008, 11:02 PM
You know Cindy knew what she was doing by washing the cloths in the car. Who would wash cloths out of a car that smells like a dead body when you havnt seen your daughter or granddaughter in a month. Nobody would bother with doing laundry at a time like that! When did she wash them, before she called 911? Would she really wash cloths that smell like a dead body or would she throw them away or have George take and dump them somewhere on his way to work?

Hailiejade77
11-28-2008, 11:03 PM
I caught it too Cocoamom! I think I know what he is talking about. The spare tire sits under a tire cover in the center of the trunk where the stain is. You loosen a screw in the center of the cover to lift the cover to enable you to get the spare tire out of the wheel well. I think that's where Caylee was. That must have been how the stain got there. The chucks are "wedges", usually made out of wood or plastic that you put behind your wheels to keep it from rolling. That's where one of the chucks was and that is what GA was telling KC he could get by himself. She was going to do what she had to - to keep GA from getting into that trunk, so she diverted him with his (expletive) gas cans. Caylee was in the wheel well!!!! I'd bet money on it.

I am thinking the same thing. I think she might have been in a vacuum type bag as well and was there when George picked up the car. :eek: He found her and did what he could so Casey wouldn't go to jail. jmo

ledwards
11-28-2008, 11:04 PM
I do not think George had anything to do with helping in Caylees death. I think the dates are wrong in estimates of Caylees death by LE or George has the dates wrong when Casey came by, or he would have smelled the car, and also why didnt Tony smell it too that day he picked her up?

I think Tony never got close to the car,Casey was already standing out by it when he pulled up and she just got in.

Hailiejade77
11-28-2008, 11:05 PM
I do not think George had anything to do with helping in Caylees death. I think the dates are wrong in estimates of Caylees death by LE or George has the dates wrong when Casey came by, or he would have smelled the car, and also why didnt Tony smell it too that day he picked her up?

Casey was already out of the car and walking towards Tony's car when he got there to pick her up. He was never near the car. Casey said her dad would take care of it.

Baznme
11-28-2008, 11:06 PM
I do not think George had anything to do with helping in Caylees death. I think the dates are wrong in estimates of Caylees death by LE or George has the dates wrong when Casey came by, or he would have smelled the car, and also why didnt Tony smell it too that day he picked her up?

I agree Short stuff:

Here are pic's of a Pontiac Sunfire. This is not KC's car but one like it.

http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq289/gigi2009_photos/?albumview=slideshow

Baznme
11-28-2008, 11:10 PM
I believe she was frantic to keep GA out of the trunk of that car because Caylee was still in there. That narrows the timeframe down as to when she disposed of her. The gas cans were given back to GA on the 24th in the afternoon, correct? The car was ditched at Amscot on the 27th, correct? So there are approx. 72 hours in between those two dates that she had to dispose of Caylee. Where was she?

cocoamom
11-28-2008, 11:31 PM
I believe she was frantic to keep GA out of the trunk of that car because Caylee was still in there. That narrows the timeframe down as to when she disposed of her. The gas cans were given back to GA on the 24th in the afternoon, correct? The car was ditched at Amscot on the 27th, correct? So there are approx. 34 hours in between those two dates that she had to dispose of Caylee. Where was she?

Good one Baz! Thanks for the pics link too. Do you think there was room in this spare tire place for a wedge when there is a spare in there? I'm just wondering if GA was lying - and where does it get "racheted down"? I guess the bolt tightening thing he was talking about was the wheel cover thing - I get it...

going to look at ping maps!

Also, didn't she make a JC penney purchase on the 27th followed by a ping at the tower by Amscot? That would narrow it more if the purchase was used at the car/trunk - yuck.

Truthwillsetufree
11-28-2008, 11:45 PM
I agree Short stuff:

Here are pic's of a Pontiac Sunfire. This is not KC's car but one like it.

http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq289/gigi2009_photos/?albumview=slideshow

I caught a bunch of flak when I brought this theory up waayy back in the begining of this case but as theories go, I stand by this one. It's simple and in my opinion the A's are simple people, in that they can't think past their fingertips. On another note...looking at the pictures of the wheel well without the spare tire in it and it's rough surface, one can only imagine the trace evidence that would be left behind, even with someone trying to clean it and that someone being in a hurry.JMO.

Truthwillsetufree
11-28-2008, 11:50 PM
I caught a bunch of flak when I brought this theory up waayy back in the begining of this case but as theories go, I stand by this one. It's simple and in my opinion the A's are simple people, in that they can't think past their fingertips. On another note...looking at the pictures of the wheel well without the spare tire in it and it's rough surface, one can only imagine the trace evidence that would be left behind, even with someone trying to clean it and that someone being in a hurry.JMO.

Another thing...Why would the A's pull the Pontiac into the garage, shut the garage and let the awful odor (their words) seep into the house? Why not leave it out in the driveway to "air out"? The A's have said they removed the battery because KC might steal it? The battery was gone, KC would have had to push it anywhere she went, I don't buy that story either. I think they were busy as bees behind closed doors. JMO.

Elley Mae
11-29-2008, 12:12 AM
I read in the docs and on here that Cindy went back to work for a few hours. I am starting to think that Cindy went back to work when she left the tow yard. Leaving George to go home in the pontiac all by himself. We know that he had just started a new job, but do we know what time George went in that day. Just saying that it looks like George had some time by his self with the car.

Baznme
11-29-2008, 12:17 AM
Another thing...Why would the A's pull the Pontiac into the garage, shut the garage and let the awful odor (their words) seep into the house? Why not leave it out in the driveway to "air out"? The A's have said they removed the battery because KC might steal it? The battery was gone, KC would have had to push it anywhere she went, I don't buy that story either. I think they were busy as bees behind closed doors. JMO.

I don't want to go there regarding what the A's were doing with that car. Unfortunately, the evidence that is or was left is all LE has to work with. If we take their interviews (the A's, GA at least) as truth, and I do believe GA was being truthful as his "cop" hat seems to go on when he talks to LE, then I believe that KC's desperation to keep GA out of the trunk of that car on the 24th was because Caylee was in the wheel well. She was willing to relenquish the gas cans and admit she had them to keep GA from that trunk after he had just reported them missing that very day. The car was beginning to get really rank but not enough yet that if you were standing 3 feet from it, that you could smell it. It was 99 degrees that day by noon, then cooled down to 88 after a 1/2 inch of rain. At that, it was 72 degrees overnight as an average temp. In other words, it was hot and decomp was raging. The chuck he was using as an excuse to get into the trunk is no bigger than a pie shaped piece of wood you would use for a doorstop so that didn't take up much room in the wheel well, if it was still in there at all. On the 26th, I see a 2 hour gap in between pings up off Old Cheney Highway. If you google Amscot on Colonial Drive and Goldenrod to a street called "Muskogee" street, you'll see it is literally 2 minutes from the Amscot, easy to drive into the wooded area and back out. What time did Tony pick up KC at Amscot on the 27th?

Baznme
11-29-2008, 12:20 AM
I caught a bunch of flak when I brought this theory up waayy back in the begining of this case but as theories go, I stand by this one. It's simple and in my opinion the A's are simple people, in that they can't think past their fingertips. On another note...looking at the pictures of the wheel well without the spare tire in it and it's rough surface, one can only imagine the trace evidence that would be left behind, even with someone trying to clean it and that someone being in a hurry.JMO.

I don't understand why you would catch a bunch of flack. It's a very sensible theory and is making more sense as time goes on.

LiveLoveLaughLiza
11-29-2008, 12:21 AM
Another thing...Why would the A's pull the Pontiac into the garage, shut the garage and let the awful odor (their words) seep into the house? Why not leave it out in the driveway to "air out"? The A's have said they removed the battery because KC might steal it? The battery was gone, KC would have had to push it anywhere she went, I don't buy that story either. I think they were busy as bees behind closed doors. JMO.


Me too....and IIRC, George took the battery out before Cindy found the perp at Tony's.

Lanie
11-29-2008, 12:34 AM
Another thing...Why would the A's pull the Pontiac into the garage, shut the garage and let the awful odor (their words) seep into the house? Why not leave it out in the driveway to "air out"? The A's have said they removed the battery because KC might steal it? The battery was gone, KC would have had to push it anywhere she went, I don't buy that story either. I think they were busy as bees behind closed doors. JMO.

This is something that has always bugged me. George said the blue bin was in the trunk at the tow yard, and if LE confiscated it I haven't seen anything in the docs about it. George also makes some kind of reference to being sorry about what he did (paraphrasing) in the FBI interview while they were discussing finding the car and bringing it home. My first thought when he said it was he tried to clean the stain in the car. IIRC, FBIguy kind of moves the conversation along when he says it, like he doesn't want George to elaborate.
For quite some time I defended both the A's about being in denial, etc. However, as more information has come out, it is just so hard to believe at least one of them, George, didn't know what that stain and that smell meant at least by the time it was brought back to the house, especially with them pulling it into the garage. The only 'logical' reason I can come up with for them doing this is in case Casey came by before they got their hands on her, they didn't want her to see the car and realize she was busted.
Lanie

Truthwillsetufree
11-29-2008, 12:55 AM
I don't want to go there regarding what the A's were doing with that car. Unfortunately, the evidence that is or was left is all LE has to work with. If we take their interviews (the A's, GA at least) as truth, and I do believe GA was being truthful as his "cop" hat seems to go on when he talks to LE, then I believe that KC's desperation to keep GA out of the trunk of that car on the 24th was because Caylee was in the wheel well. She was willing to relenquish the gas cans and admit she had them to keep GA from that trunk after he had just reported them missing that very day. The car was beginning to get really rank but not enough yet that if you were standing 3 feet from it, that you could smell it. It was 99 degrees that day by noon, then cooled down to 88 after a 1/2 inch of rain. At that, it was 72 degrees overnight as an average temp. In other words, it was hot and decomp was raging. The chuck he was using as an excuse to get into the trunk is no bigger than a pie shaped piece of wood you would use for a doorstop so that didn't take up much room in the wheel well, if it was still in there at all. On the 26th, I see a 2 hour gap in between pings up off Old Cheney Highway. If you google Amscot on Colonial Drive and Goldenrod to a street called "Muskogee" street, you'll see it is literally 2 minutes from the Amscot, easy to drive into the wooded area and back out. What time did Tony pick up KC at Amscot on the 27th?

IIRC it was in the am hours.

JWG
11-29-2008, 01:05 AM
Another thing...Why would the A's pull the Pontiac into the garage, shut the garage and let the awful odor (their words) seep into the house? Why not leave it out in the driveway to "air out"? The A's have said they removed the battery because KC might steal it? The battery was gone, KC would have had to push it anywhere she went, I don't buy that story either. I think they were busy as bees behind closed doors. JMO.

It had been raining on / off that day. In fact, GA drove home in the rain. That is why it was in the garage.

I thought the garage doors were open when they aired it out.

debs
11-29-2008, 11:20 AM
It had been raining on / off that day. In fact, GA drove home in the rain. That is why it was in the garage.

I thought the garage doors were open when they aired it out.

Moving a stanky car into the garage filled with storage bins (all over in there!), food (the freezer), laundry facilities, cleaning supplies, access to the house where the smell could permeate every item surrounding it is NOT a "thinking move" it is a "hiding move." They put the car in the garage to hide it. They took the battery out to keep Casey from taking it, they say, but truly only a little bit of searching would have found it. You don't put a car battery anywhere but onto the floor or workbench so that the acid inside does not seep out onto whatever is underneath. The rain, therefore, was not the reason the Anthony's put the car into the garage. George drove home in the rain, true enough. But each time one catches oneself saying "man, I'd have done....." and the Anthony's have done something else, it isn't because they're too stupid to figure out what others would have done. It is because they are deliberately doing the opposite to keep a secret, whatever that secret might be. This time, it was the car. I don't believe they were ever going to say anything about the stench in that car. I believe they thought they'd get Casey and Caylee home and whatever Casey might have killed would have remained a mystery they would help cover up. Only, it became Caylee that was missing, added to that smell, multiplied a million times by Casey refusing to relieve her mother's panic by saying where she was.
And the walls came tumbling down.

Secretsolver
11-29-2008, 12:17 PM
I said this in another thread yesterday, but when George and Cindy retrieved that car at the tow yard, they still had no idea where Casey or Caylee were.

WHY then would George after smelling the stench in the car and asking the Tow yard driver to help him in opening the trunk, (and at the time George stating that he prayed that "please don't let this be my Caylee")

When the trunk was opened and only the garbage bag was found, NO bodies,
then why would George then drive the car home, back it into the garage and start cleaning it?

We need a new law here in Florida. Smell something like that decomp smell at all, no one touches that car except for the police.

IF he didn't know where Casey or Caylee were, WHY would he destroy any possible clues that could possibly help find them????

George HAD TO HAVE KNOWN that Casey committed some terrible thing to Caylee, and he was going to now have to "fix" it.
George directs Cindy to start washing the pants he finds in the car as well as some other clothes. If you had not seen your daughter or grand daughter in weeks, you would NEVER have done these things.
Later George mentions that any evidence would come back "inconclusive". (You know, one of those words that comes up in every day conversation. :rolleyes: )

IMO, George knew EXACTLY what he was doing the second he picked up a bottle of cleaner and proceeded to once again "fix" things for Casey.

jandkmom
11-29-2008, 12:25 PM
If they picked up the car and it smelled like decomposition and they hadn't seen KC or Caylee, then why would GA go to work if he was afraid it had been one of them?

Elley Mae
11-29-2008, 12:25 PM
I am starting to wonder if George went home alone, and did a lot of cleaning. Cindy said that she went back to work for a few hours, I think she went back to work after she left the tow yard and George went home alone. I am starting to wnder at what point did Cindy know about the smell. It would seem to me that if she knew about the smell at the tow yard she would not have went back to work, so George had some time alone with that car. It has benn said that George is the one that cleans cars to the point of "detailing". When Cindy did get home and the smell hit her that is when she called Amy.

jandkmom
11-29-2008, 12:33 PM
I am starting to wonder if George went home alone, and did a lot of cleaning. Cindy said that she went back to work for a few hours, I think she went back to work after she left the tow yard and George went home alone. I am starting to wnder at what point did Cindy know about the smell. It would seem to me that if she knew about the smell at the tow yard she would not have went back to work, so George had some time alone with that car. It has benn said that George is the one that cleans cars to the point of "detailing". When Cindy did get home and the smell hit her that is when she called Amy.

I agree. I believe that as soon as GA got the car and smelled it, the coverup story for him began. When CA found KC and got home and made the 911 calls, and KC still couldn't get Caylee back, the CA's coverup began. I belive that CA was hoping until that point that KC would still tell her where Caylee was.

songline
11-29-2008, 12:36 PM
Caylee's grandmother, Cindy Anthony, told the Sentinel that she received a letter informing her that the car was found abandoned and had been towed. The white 1998 Pontiac was towed June 30 from an Amscot Financial store at Colonial Drive and Goldenrod Road, said sheriff's spokesman Carlos Padilla.

"It had been with the wrecker a while before the family found out," Padilla said.

Caylee's mother, Casey Anthony, had been using the car to get around, records show. Cindy Anthony said she questioned her daughter about Caylee's whereabouts when she received the letter from the tow company.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/community/news/conway/orl-caylee2008jul20,0,2486087.story


I think the "A" knew long before 30 days that Caylee is missing - I always felt they were all waiting to be very sure that Caylee will never be found.
I believe that George had enough LE history and knew how to save Casey.
And I also know he knew that he should NOT clean that car.

My parents spoke with my daughter weekly; so do most grandparents that I know.
Are they trying to tell us that after one month they asked Casey where the baby is???? I do not think so....:crazy:
BUT I do not think they had a hand in harming her, but they have a hand in protecting that monster daughter of theirs.

songline
11-29-2008, 12:39 PM
I agree. I believe that as soon as GA got the car and smelled it, the coverup story for him began. When CA found KC and got home and made the 911 calls, and KC still couldn't get Caylee back, the CA's coverup began. I belive that CA was hoping until that point that KC would still tell her where Caylee was.

I think they waited to be notified about the car. Once they were notified about the car they had no choice but to make a 911 call, and Begin sending the LE in circles. But the cover up plan started while waiting for that call.

That has been my opinion from the start.

songline
11-29-2008, 12:42 PM
I am starting to wonder if George went home alone, and did a lot of cleaning. Cindy said that she went back to work for a few hours, I think she went back to work after she left the tow yard and George went home alone. I am starting to wnder at what point did Cindy know about the smell. It would seem to me that if she knew about the smell at the tow yard she would not have went back to work, so George had some time alone with that car. It has benn said that George is the one that cleans cars to the point of "detailing". When Cindy did get home and the smell hit her that is when she called Amy.

I think she would go back to her normal routine as she had been for days while knowing Caylee was gone; They kept everything same as to not alert anyone that something is different. MOO

Indigo
11-29-2008, 12:45 PM
Moving a stanky car into the garage filled with storage bins (all over in there!), food (the freezer), laundry facilities, cleaning supplies, access to the house where the smell could permeate every item surrounding it is NOT a "thinking move" it is a "hiding move." They put the car in the garage to hide it. They took the battery out to keep Casey from taking it, they say, but truly only a little bit of searching would have found it. You don't put a car battery anywhere but onto the floor or workbench so that the acid inside does not seep out onto whatever is underneath. The rain, therefore, was not the reason the Anthony's put the car into the garage. George drove home in the rain, true enough. But each time one catches oneself saying "man, I'd have done....." and the Anthony's have done something else, it isn't because they're too stupid to figure out what others would have done. It is because they are deliberately doing the opposite to keep a secret, whatever that secret might be. This time, it was the car. I don't believe they were ever going to say anything about the stench in that car. I believe they thought they'd get Casey and Caylee home and whatever Casey might have killed would have remained a mystery they would help cover up. Only, it became Caylee that was missing, added to that smell, multiplied a million times by Casey refusing to relieve her mother's panic by saying where she was.
And the walls came tumbling down.

This makes perfect sense, debs. I believe the Anthonys were absolutely panic stricken about the smell in the car. In fact CA told Amy that before they opened the trunk, they actually believed either Caylee or Casey was "stuffed in the trunk." Yet IIRC, before calling 911 or finding Casey, Cindy washes Casey's pants that she finds in the back seat.

First of all, I would think that laundry would be the last thing on CA's mind when both Caylee and Casey were still missing! There were lots of stinky things in that car. Why only try to salvage the pants?

And what if Casey was the one that ended up missing? Are we to believe that before ever finding her daughter, Cindy would actually wash one of the last items of clothing Casey was seen wearing? Logic says she wasn't worried about Casey but for Casey.



CINDY ANTHONY:

All right, here's what happened. 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon, brings the car home, pizza smell in the back trunk. No evidence of Caylee, no evidence of Casey.

I didn't have any issues, did I? What time did I make the 911 call? Ok? I found a pair of pants in the back seat. And, by the way, the two pair of shoes were left in the back seat.

I took the pants out, threw them in the wash with other wash that I had that day, not knowing that that might become evidence...

songline
11-29-2008, 12:54 PM
Another thing...Why would the A's pull the Pontiac into the garage, shut the garage and let the awful odor (their words) seep into the house? Why not leave it out in the driveway to "air out"? The A's have said they removed the battery because KC might steal it? The battery was gone, KC would have had to push it anywhere she went, I don't buy that story either. I think they were busy as bees behind closed doors. JMO.


GOOD THINKING :clap:
I think so too.

BeanE
11-29-2008, 12:59 PM
Today I'm listening again to the Cindy FBI Interviews (what fun :eek:). Yesterday I read the Lee OCSO LE interview. Between the two, I noticed two things I hadn't noticed before, and the two are related.

One is that Casey may have had access to the car and all the evidence in/on it after the sheriffs got to the house on July 15.

The second is about the lanyard that Cindy has said that Jesse G stole. Actually I have questions about the lanyard based on noticing a few things about it I had previously dismissed.

Here are the notes I've taken so far. When I get to the part where Cindy accuses Jesse of stealing the lanyard, I'll add more info.

This info is from Cindy FBI Interviews from wftv.com Part 2 of 11 at approx 11:40 (http://www.wftv.com/news/18032990/detail.html)

July 15 - Lanyard is a Universal work ID with shamrock beads on it that Cindy claims came up missing and that Jesse G stole.

Cindy says:

- Casey wore lanyard all the time. Why would Casey wear this all the time? To help bolster her lie that she was working at Universal?

- lanyard was very distinctive with the shamrock beads going all around it.

- Casey had lanyard since she "graduated from" high school. Where did Casey get these shamrock beads? Why was it so meaningful to her, if indeed it was meaningful to her?

- lanyard was in Casey's bag in the front seat of the car, but Cindy had moved it to the top of an ice chest that was by the washer and dryer in the garage along with Caylee's baby doll so they could air out from "the stench that was in the car".

- lanyard was there when the sheriffs were there, and the bag was inventoried with Cindy and the sheriffs.

- Casey never had an opportunity to go into the garage because from the time we got home, I (Cindy) kep' 'er with me or Lee kep' 'er with him, up until the sheriffs got there then they kep' 'er with them.

At this point, Cindy segues into talking about Amy.


From Lee's OCSO LE interview:

Lee says that he met with Casey in the garage after the sheriffs got there while he was waiting to go get Casey's stuff from Tony Lazarro's place. He said because of the smell coming from the car which was in the garage with the windows and trunk open, he had to keep going in the house to get away from the smell.

This would leave Casey in the garage with the car alone, windows and trunk open, with the lanyard, as well as with all other evidence!!

- If this is the case, then why of all things would she take the Universal ID with shamrock beads??

- Why was that so important to her?

- Is it/could it be evidence in some way??

- Where the hell is it??

- How could she stand the smell of the garage? Unless she so desperately wanted to get some evidence out of the car that she was willing to tolerate the smell to get to it. But all we know of that she may have taken was the lanyard!!

- You know what's haunting me right now? Casey's remark about "They haven't even found Caylee's clothes yet." Could she have taken Caylee's clothes from the car and hid them during this time???

- Who's lying here? Cindy that Casey *was never* in the garage alone? Or Lee that Casey *was* in the garage alone?

Your thoughts, ideas, opinions, any more info?

TIA!!

ETA: Well, I started a thread for this so we could all analyze

- whether took evidence from the car or garage on the night of July 15

- whether that evidence might have been Caylee's clothes

- what the significance of the lanyard might be if she took it because it was evidence

Also I thought a separate thread was appropriate to gather together information related solely to whether or not Casey had taken evidence from the car that night, and if so, what might have happened to it.

Within what must have been seconds of me starting the thread, it was killed, and my post moved here.

cocoamom
11-29-2008, 01:05 PM
ITA with EllieMae that CA went back to work (this fits the timeline). She didn't know about the smell yet. GA went home. IIRC they got the car early afternoon right? How about GA throws the pants in the washer while he works on the car and whatever else is in there, CA dries them later.

CA comes home, "George! What died? It's the pizza right?" noooo that doesn't fit unless he told her about the smell earlier. Maybe she knew about the smell because she talked to him but hadn't actually smelled it. She tells him to go to work that "I will take care of this" while she is on the phone to Amy (number found on paper in car), car mostly cleaned out.

GA leaves for work (or wherever he went), CA gets Amy then KC, then 911 calls. While on 911 call, talks to GA on another phone. He calls LA who comes over. Later GA returns home around 10PM from work.

Does this fit? PS GA disconnected battery (on the 16th I believe, next day) but didn't remove it from the car. He knew KC had already gone somewhere in the car and didn't want that to happen again. Check the pings for July 15 and 16.

BondJamesBond
11-29-2008, 01:25 PM
PS GA disconnected battery (on the 16th I believe, next day) but didn't remove it from the car. He knew KC had already gone somewhere in the car and didn't want that to happen again. Check the pings for July 15 and 16.

*snipped*

CCM: Are you speculating here? Or, is this sourced info? I'm not current on the docs.

Asking because we went through the pings on 7/16 a week or so ago and noted what appeared to be a jaunt over to Lee's 7/16 around 11:30AM just before Yuri called and came to get Casey.

BondJamesBond
11-29-2008, 01:56 PM
Bringing this over from the "KC Borrowed Cindy's car thread" where we worked out the 7/15 timeline relative to opportunity for G&C to clean the Pontiac either together or on their own...not perfect, but, seems like lotsa discussion on this thread re: same, so thought this might help...I cleaned it up just a bit.

Originally Posted by BondJamesBond

~1:55PM Cindy & George wrapping up @ the towyard
~2:30PM George's HHR (Cindy driving) goes through the last toll on their way home w/ the Pontiac (George driving)
>2:30PM Cindy and George get home w/ the Pontiac
<5:10PM George leaves for work based on EPass record of his HHR

Casey's pings support...
~2:30PM Casey met Amy @ the airport
~3:20PM Casey & Amy leave the airport area after presumably picking up luggage

4:02PM Casey sends Amy a facebook message, "so glad you’re home.i better not see you online.life is on hold until tomorrow" suggesting Amy has now dropped her off @ Tony's.

#:##PM Amy returns to the airport and picks up the boys
5:22PM Amy texts Casey about her camera being returned to her apt. instead of Casey's...indicating Amy made it to her apt.
~5:30PM Amy and J.P. goto Mall
#:##PM Cindy calls Amy
>6:17PM Cindy picks up Amy after going through airport toll per EPass
>6:30PM-7PM Cindy and Amy show up @ Tony's apt (my guess based on last outbound ping before 9:27PM Tony calling Amy w/ Casey's phone that was left @ his apartment)
8:44PM Cindy makes 911 call

Epass for convenient reference:
George's-only-focused on 7/15: http://websleuths.com/forums/showpos...6&postcount=96
G&C's for both June & July: http://websleuths.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=16

Sooooo....

Depending on whether or not Cindy went back to work (understand she may state that, but, I dunno if it has been corroborated):

George has between ~>2:30PM to <5:10PM to work on the Pontiac 7/15. George may have had ~1hr+ of this time on his own depending on whether or not Cindy went back to work (see below).

Cindy likley had ~1 hour on her own w/ the Pontiac between ~>5:10PM and <6:17PM, 7/15, when she left to go get Amy. OR, up to ~3hrs total...with George up to <5:10PM depending on whether she went back to Gentiva after getting home w/ George ~>2:30PM or not. Note: High confidence that Cindy left from home to get Amy @ the mall based on Cindy passing the airport toll (vs. leaving from Gentiva).

IF we give Cindy the benefit of the doubt, it is plausble she left for Gentiva almost immediately after getting home (say, 3PM if she threw some things in the laundry to wash while she was out) and then returned home before hunting down Amy ~6PM. Note: There are no tolls on the typical route between G&C's & Gentiva, hence, no way to lock this down.

That's not to say they did or didn't have the opportunity to do something 7/16 before the Pontiac was picked up by LE...just looked @ 7/15 info for this dive.

Hope that helps.

BeanE
11-29-2008, 02:20 PM
Just wanted to note that I'm listening to the FBI interview tapes of Cindy today, as I posted the other day I would. Sorry it's taken me this long to get to them.

This was to confirm (or deny lol) whether Cindy said she had gone looking for Casey for "a couple hours" on the afternoon of July 15.

Okay, after listening to the tapes all day (yes all day, listened to some parts more than once :eek:), I was incorrect that Cindy said she looked for Casey. She indeed said she went back to work.

I apologize for my mistake.

Note on something else for the timeline possibly(?)

wftv.com raw video fbi interviews cindy anthony part 10 of 11 approx 15:47

12 to 12:30 george calls cindy and tells her the registered letter is from the tow yard, that the car's been towed.

Cindy leaves casey a voice mail, and thinks they may have spoken too. cindy tells casey that obviously she's not in jacksonville because the car's in orlando, that they just got a letter from the tow company, and that casey needed to call her.

Could this be why Casey texts Amy later in the afternoon and tells her 'life is on hold till tomorrow'?

Did Casey do anything to indicate she was panicked about Cindy and George knowing where the car was? Did she try to get to the car or find the car? This might give us an indication whether Caylee's body was still in the car.

BeanE
11-29-2008, 07:51 PM
Cindy also says when she got home from work, she hadn't heard back from Casey (but she said a couple minutes ago that they might have spoken!), so she got Amy's number from Amy's resume which was under Casey's bag in the front seat of the car.

The way Cindy words this, the bag and Amy's resume was still on the front seat (when she got home from work).

I'm going to go listen to the Cindy OCSO LE interview and see what Cindy says there. I'll add any more significant detail. I'll also try to find Casey's phone calls and texts to see if I can tell when Cindy called Casey, when Casey picked up that call, etc.

cocoamom
11-30-2008, 12:00 AM
*snipped*

CCM: Are you speculating here? Or, is this sourced info? I'm not current on the docs.

Asking because we went through the pings on 7/16 a week or so ago and noted what appeared to be a jaunt over to Lee's 7/16 around 11:30AM just before Yuri called and came to get Casey.

I was referring to the 4:56AM (early morning of the 16th)ping quite a ways East of the A's normal pings by Chris S. house. The pings then return to a semi normal state back where they always ping by Hopespring, the N and the South tower with occasional ping to the W tower...

I just thought it pretty impossible for her phone to ping at home then several miles away at almost 5AM and then come home...

OH! Really great info above!! It looks like no matter what, one or both of the A's had significant time alone or together with the car!

BondJamesBond
11-30-2008, 03:22 AM
Did Casey do anything to indicate she was panicked about Cindy and George knowing where the car was? Did she try to get to the car or find the car? This might give us an indication whether Caylee's body was still in the car.

BeanE, Excellent post. Appreciate the follow-up...you really took one for the team going into that mat'l :)

Very insightful question re: Casey's actions upon getting Cindy's call.

I took another look @ the call log & ping map for 7/15 (yet another big TY to Georgia PI).

First - we know Casey was @ Tony's playing video games when Amy & Cindy showed up around 6:30-7PM...so this suggests she certainly wasn't in a full-scale panic, IMHO. :)

~1PM Casey called Cindy and they had a ~4min conversation.
In just a couple of mins it looks like Casey is on the move (driving Amy's car). It looks like she maybe heading to the airport to pick up Amy ~2:30PM, but, she takes a circuitous route. This can best be viewed on the ping map.

It appears the 'busted' call comes from Cindy @ 1:11PM after Casey is already on the move. It then appears Casey heads up to Ricardo & Amy's apartment area and then from there down to the airport. There are some efforts to contact Will, Jesse, as well as Cassidy and Erika in the mix FWIW.

shadow of my mind
11-30-2008, 01:12 PM
I have been thinking….
Two things about the A's going back to work on July 15.
If they were going to be home why take the battery out of the car so it could not be taken?
Someone at both Cindy's and George’s work would be able to verify if they came back to work or not.

The main question is did someone clean the trunk out because they only found one hair in the trunk.

The car was not taken right away by LE on July 15 but was towed on the July 16th. I do not recall if there is any documentation to when that took place. We do know that Johnson’s was called to come and pick up the car from the A’s home. Johnson’s is one of the designated towing company’s that do contract work for OCSO.

What initiated the car being towed at that point?
Apparently GA told LE about the garbage in the back of the trunk because it was retrieved from the tow yard the night of July 16 as per Simone B. statement in his interview. The question is when did GA impart this information to LE.

Casey was arrested about 5:00PM on July 16 and up until that time LE was still treating this case as strictly a kidnapping. The car was not an issue.

I would think that had GA said anything to LE about the smell in the car he would have done so the night of July15 and the car trunk would have been sealed and the car taken a lot sooner than 24 hours later. Since the bag of garbage was not retrieved from the tow yard until later on night of July 16th I would have to assume that nothing was said. So to me that means that the car was not an issue the night of July 15 or even the early morning hours of July 16 and not really paid attention to by LE at all until it was towed later in the day on July 16th and the bag was retrieved from the yard.
If this is the case Cindy, George or Lee could have cleaned out the trunk anytime LE left after bringing Casey back from her tour of Orlando with the officers. IIRC that was at approximately 7:00AM and they did not come back to pick her up to take her to Universal until about noon on July 16. If there was no LE still at the home between 7AM and noon that would be a more ideal time to when the car could have been cleaned.


This is all speculation. We would have to go over the reports by LE to see if there is a way to discern when someone from LE was at the A’s home and if there was in fact an opportunity open for the car to be cleaned.

I have to get back to the kitchen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted this on the 'Casey Borrowered Cindy's car' thread but it has more relevance here.

JWG
11-30-2008, 01:24 PM
OK, so here is my speculation of the route Casey was following to pick up Amy, beginning approximately 1:00PM, based on cell pings and direction of pings to cell towers:

1:00 PM - leave AL's. Must make a right turn and head east. It is clear from pings to tower 58 she gets as far as Goldenrod, where it appears she pulls a U-turn to head west. This is the desired direction, because she wants to get onto Semoran. Tower 46 pings from Tony's and University as she heads west.

1:08 PM - left turn from University onto Semoran. Pings to tower 51 at 1:10 to 1:11 consistent with this location.

1:15 PM - Cross 408, continue to head south. Pings at 1:15 and 1:17 to north side of tower 30 consistent with this.

For some reason at this point Casey decides she needs to stop by Ric / Amy's place. So she loops back towards their apartment.

1:19 PM - Right turn onto Lake Margaret, heading west in the vicinity of the Sawgrass Apartments. Pings to north side of tower 24 consistent with this.

1:22 PM - Right turn onto S. Conway (15) heading north past Sawgrass.

1:28 PM - Left onto Curry Ford (stuck at light), heading west.

1:30 PM - Right onto S. Crystal Lake, heading north.

1:34 PM - Left onto E. Robinson to Ric / Amy's

1:35 PM to 1:41 PM - At Ric / Amy's (park, go in, get something, come out, leave). Pings to cell towers at this time consistent with this location.

Now she needs to get onto S. Orange to head toward airport. Takes back roads to avoid traffic.

1:43 PM - Left on Summerlin, heading south.

1:45 PM - Right on Briercliff, heading west - ping to cell tower 28 at 13:45:24 consistent with this location.

1:47 PM - Left on Delaney, heading south

1:51 PM - Right on E. Michigan, heading east (had to wait for cars ahead to make right).

1:54 PM - Left on S. Orange, heading S. toward airport (had to wait for left turn light).

1:55 PM - Passes Cast Iron Tatoos as she is driving south on Orange. The pings from 1:54:19 to 1:56:03 bounce between two cell towers very close to this location. The cell ID's of these two towers place her in a very specific 1 mile stretch of S. Orange (and no other road) at this time.

2:04 PM - Left onto E. Sand Lake / McCoy toward Beachline Expw, heading east towards airport. Pings at 2:06 from tower 9 consistent with this location.

Remaining pings (including again cell direction) to 2:31:52 PM are very consistent with Casey entering aiport from the south. This means she would turn right onto Boggy Creek and then left onto the S. Access Road. At 2:32 she is either at or very close to the terminal pick up area.

Now, people will love speculating about the following. There are 10 minutes of "fat" in the pings driving this route. Pings at 2:21 to 2:24 still place her on Boggy Creek, southwest of the airport. Maybe she stopped to put some gas in Amy's car, but she stopped somewhere for about 10 minutes.

JWG
11-30-2008, 01:28 PM
I have been thinking….
Two things about the A's going back to work on July 15.
If they were going to be home why take the battery out of the car so it could not be taken?
Someone at both Cindy's and George’s work would be able to verify if they came back to work or not.

The main question is did someone clean the trunk out because they only found one hair in the trunk.

I think someone did clean it out, but I think it was Casey on the 20th when she backed into her parent's garage for the last time.

shadow of my mind
11-30-2008, 01:59 PM
I think someone did clean it out, but I think it was Casey on the 20th when she backed into her parent's garage for the last time.

The backing into the garage could very well have been to clean the trunk. I keep getting stuck on the June 24 gas can day. If the trunk was already cleaned out on June 20th then why all the drama with GA about not letting him into the trunk. Could it have just be the stain that she could not get out and she was afraid that he would see it. She lied about so many other things how hard would it have been to make up something about a stain. Heck she could had told him just about anything. The takeout food container spilled.
My gut tells me that there was something in the trunk that Casey did not want George to see? Something that would have made GA shake off his normal state of being controlled by Cindy and take a stand. It was just not about the gas cans.

Just My opinion on this.

dreamerlin
11-30-2008, 02:24 PM
OK, so here is my speculation of the route Casey was following to pick up Amy, beginning approximately 1:00PM, based on cell pings and direction of pings to cell towers:

1:00 PM - leave AL's. Must make a right turn and head east. It is clear from pings to tower 58 she gets as far as Goldenrod, where it appears she pulls a U-turn to head west. This is the desired direction, because she wants to get onto Semoran. Tower 46 pings from Tony's and University as she heads west.

1:08 PM - left turn from University onto Semoran. Pings to tower 51 at 1:10 to 1:11 consistent with this location.

1:15 PM - Cross 408, continue to head south. Pings at 1:15 and 1:17 to north side of tower 30 consistent with this.

For some reason at this point Casey decides she needs to stop by Ric / Amy's place. So she loops back towards their apartment.

1:19 PM - Right turn onto Lake Margaret, heading west in the vicinity of the Sawgrass Apartments. Pings to north side of tower 24 consistent with this.

1:22 PM - Right turn onto S. Conway (15) heading north past Sawgrass.

1:28 PM - Left onto Curry Ford (stuck at light), heading west.

1:30 PM - Right onto S. Crystal Lake, heading north.

1:34 PM - Left onto E. Robinson to Ric / Amy's

1:35 PM to 1:41 PM - At Ric / Amy's (park, go in, get something, come out, leave). Pings to cell towers at this time consistent with this location.

Now she needs to get onto S. Orange to head toward airport. Takes back roads to avoid traffic.

1:43 PM - Left on Summerlin, heading south.

1:45 PM - Right on Briercliff, heading west - ping to cell tower 28 at 13:45:24 consistent with this location.

1:47 PM - Left on Delaney, heading south

1:51 PM - Right on E. Michigan, heading east (had to wait for cars ahead to make right).

1:54 PM - Left on S. Orange, heading S. toward airport (had to wait for left turn light).

1:55 PM - Passes Cast Iron Tatoos as she is driving south on Orange. The pings from 1:54:19 to 1:56:03 bounce between two cell towers very close to this location. The cell ID's of these two towers place her in a very specific 1 mile stretch of S. Orange (and no other road) at this time.

2:04 PM - Left onto E. Sand Lake / McCoy toward Beachline Expw, heading east towards airport. Pings at 2:06 from tower 9 consistent with this location.

Remaining pings (including again cell direction) to 2:31:52 PM are very consistent with Casey entering aiport from the south. This means she would turn right onto Boggy Creek and then left onto the S. Access Road. At 2:32 she is either at or very close to the terminal pick up area.

Now, people will love speculating about the following. There are 10 minutes of "fat" in the pings driving this route. Pings at 2:21 to 2:24 still place her on Boggy Creek, southwest of the airport. Maybe she stopped to put some gas in Amy's car, but she stopped somewhere for about 10 minutes.


Just a thought, maybe she wasn't getting something from Amy/Ric's, maybe she was returning something. Wasn't it that morning that she cashed Amy's check at BOA?

JWG
11-30-2008, 02:37 PM
Just a thought, maybe she wasn't getting something from Amy/Ric's, maybe she was returning something. Wasn't it that morning that she cashed Amy's check at BOA?

I don't know when she cashed that check, but it is plausible she dropped something off. In fact, that would make more sense. She was there very briefly, indicating that she did not look around for long. If all she had to do was drop something off she could get in/out quickly.

chicoliving
11-30-2008, 02:39 PM
I think she stopped by Cast Iron Tatoos to make an appt for the 18th.

JWG
11-30-2008, 02:42 PM
I think she stopped by Cast Iron Tatoos to make an appt for the 18th.

No, pings indicate she did not stop there. Everything indicates she drove right by.

BeanE
11-30-2008, 02:51 PM
BeanE, Excellent post. Appreciate the follow-up...you really took one for the team going into that mat'l :)

Very insightful question re: Casey's actions upon getting Cindy's call.

I took another look @ the call log & ping map for 7/15 (yet another big TY to Georgia PI).

First - we know Casey was @ Tony's playing video games when Amy & Cindy showed up around 6:30-7PM...so this suggests she certainly wasn't in a full-scale panic, IMHO. :)

~1PM Casey called Cindy and they had a ~4min conversation.
In just a couple of mins it looks like Casey is on the move (driving Amy's car). It looks like she maybe heading to the airport to pick up Amy ~2:30PM, but, she takes a circuitous route. This can best be viewed on the ping map.

It appears the 'busted' call comes from Cindy @ 1:11PM after Casey is already on the move. It then appears Casey heads up to Ricardo & Amy's apartment area and then from there down to the airport. There are some efforts to contact Will, Jesse, as well as Cassidy and Erika in the mix FWIW.

I'm sorry again for my error on what Cindy said. I have gone back over the OCSO calls yet. I needed a break from her. I will do that this afternoon.

A note - Tony and his roomie were playing video games. Casey was on her laptop. Lee said when he got to Tony's night of the 15th, her laptop was bluescreened. LE tells Cindy the reason they've held her laptop so long is because a lot was deleted. So I think some panic there with whatever was on the laptop :eek:

I went over the calls/text messages too. I have some trouble figuring out what they mean. I know sms is a text message. I have trouble telling when somebody is leaving a voice mail.

The document I used is: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2385297/Casey_Anthony_cell_records_615_to_716

I see the 1:11 call you reference. Right after she has some calls back and forth with Cassidy, who she's been talking with all day, so no panic there. Then she as soon as she can, she makes a call to the local 411. I wonder if she's trying to get the number for the tow yard:
1:30 call begins - Casey to Local 411.......190 seconds

Are these text messages?:
4:27 sms ends - Cindy to Casey........... 0
4:44 sms begins - Casey to Cindy........... 0
4:45 sms ends - Cindy to Casey........... 0
4:48 sms begins - Casey to Cindy........... 0

If text, do we have what they say? Is this when Cindy came home from work? Cindy says she didn't hear back from Casey, so when she got home from work, she finds Amy's resume w/phone # in the car, and calls Amy.

After these text messages, Casey has a 'flurry' of calls/texts with Mark H. Mark calls her back several times. Do we have info on what they talked about? Was she trying to get out of town? Could that be why her bond was so high?

I always have more questions than answers :(

I'm going to listen to those Cindy OCSO tapes, and I'll also see what I can find about what Casey and Mark H talked about on those phone calls.

Bond, did you see my post yesterday about Casey being alone with the car (and all its evidence) in the garage (according to Lee) and hence her opportunity to remove evidence? Could I have your thoughts on it please?

Thanks!

Forgot to mention that Casey cashed that $250 check at Bank of America afternoon of July 15th, and wrote a bad check at Winn Dixie. I think the times were 2:30 and 6:30 respectively, but I wouldn't swear to it in a court of law ;)

chicoliving
11-30-2008, 03:03 PM
I think she stopped by Cast Iron Tatoos to make an appt for the 18th.


No, pings indicate she did not stop there. Everything indicates she drove right by.

Maybe the time was later...according to owner Danny C, KC stopped by in the afternoon (between 2-4) to make an appt for a tat on the upcoming Saturday.

http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_D_Colamarino071708.htm

BeanE
11-30-2008, 03:26 PM
Bank of America time and location:

July 15th at approximately 13:24 hours, check number 146 was cashed at the Conway banking center located at 2701 South Conway Road, Orlando, Florida, This check was for $250,00 and was payable to Casey Anthony.

http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_BankAmericaStatement0806 08.htm

Friday
11-30-2008, 04:01 PM
I do not think George had anything to do with helping in Caylees death. I think the dates are wrong in estimates of Caylees death by LE or George has the dates wrong when Casey came by, or he would have smelled the car, and also why didnt Tony smell it too that day he picked her up?

Months ago on Nancy Grace, a couple forensics specialists addressed that issue by explaining that altough other odors begin diminishing as soon as the source is removed, the odor of human decomposition actually increases with time.

I know they said that because I was really worried about the same things you've brought up. I sure hope they're correct. LOL. Otherwise this case is a mess.

LiveLoveLaughLiza
11-30-2008, 04:06 PM
Just a thought, maybe she wasn't getting something from Amy/Ric's, maybe she was returning something. Wasn't it that morning that she cashed Amy's check at BOA?

IIRC, Tony found Amy's checkbook in KC's things the night of July 15th. If this is what you are referring to in your post.

Friday
11-30-2008, 04:11 PM
You know Cindy knew what she was doing by washing the cloths in the car. Who would wash cloths out of a car that smells like a dead body when you havnt seen your daughter or granddaughter in a month. Nobody would bother with doing laundry at a time like that! When did she wash them, before she called 911? Would she really wash cloths that smell like a dead body or would she throw them away or have George take and dump them somewhere on his way to work?

I've wondered about the same things. The only explanation that makes sense is that she didn't dare get rid of them because she couldn't be sure one of the police officers hadn't already noticed them in the car that first night--or even the guy at the tow yard. Rather than get caught disposing of evidence, she washed them instead and put them away--and then, to cover herselfshe went and told LE what she'd done. That made her look more honest and innocent.

What do you think? Does that sound likely?"

Friday
11-30-2008, 04:25 PM
I am starting to wonder if George went home alone, and did a lot of cleaning. Cindy said that she went back to work for a few hours, I think she went back to work after she left the tow yard and George went home alone. I am starting to wnder at what point did Cindy know about the smell. It would seem to me that if she knew about the smell at the tow yard she would not have went back to work, so George had some time alone with that car. It has benn said that George is the one that cleans cars to the point of "detailing". When Cindy did get home and the smell hit her that is when she called Amy.

Bolded by me...

According to Simon at the tow yard, as George and Cindy were leaving, they paused in their respective cars and spoke for a couple of minutes. Surely George mentioned the stench at that time--after all, the stench was so bad he had the windows down in the rain.

Friday
11-30-2008, 04:30 PM
Moving a stanky car into the garage filled with storage bins (all over in there!), food (the freezer), laundry facilities, cleaning supplies, access to the house where the smell could permeate every item surrounding it is NOT a "thinking move" it is a "hiding move." They put the car in the garage to hide it. They took the battery out to keep Casey from taking it, they say, but truly only a little bit of searching would have found it. You don't put a car battery anywhere but onto the floor or workbench so that the acid inside does not seep out onto whatever is underneath. The rain, therefore, was not the reason the Anthony's put the car into the garage. George drove home in the rain, true enough. But each time one catches oneself saying "man, I'd have done....." and the Anthony's have done something else, it isn't because they're too stupid to figure out what others would have done. It is because they are deliberately doing the opposite to keep a secret, whatever that secret might be. This time, it was the car. I don't believe they were ever going to say anything about the stench in that car. I believe they thought they'd get Casey and Caylee home and whatever Casey might have killed would have remained a mystery they would help cover up. Only, it became Caylee that was missing, added to that smell, multiplied a million times by Casey refusing to relieve her mother's panic by saying where she was.
And the walls came tumbling down.

(Bolded by me)

You are exactly right, IMO! I wonder what would happen if we approached this entire case from that perspective alone.

Elley Mae
11-30-2008, 04:33 PM
Bolded by me...

According to Simon at the tow yard, as George and Cindy were leaving, they paused in their respective cars and spoke for a couple of minutes. Surely George mentioned the stench at that time--after all, the stench was so bad he had the windows down in the rain.

Thanks for that info, I still wonder if Cindy returned to work and then came home, it looks like her first call (text)to Casey after the pick up was 4:27 IIRC, that could have been on her way home from work.

JWG
11-30-2008, 04:48 PM
Bank of America time and location:

July 15th at approximately 13:24 hours, check number 146 was cashed at the Conway banking center located at 2701 South Conway Road, Orlando, Florida, This check was for $250,00 and was payable to Casey Anthony.

http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_BankAmericaStatement0806 08.htm

Maybe the time was later...according to owner Danny C, KC stopped by in the afternoon (between 2-4) to make an appt for a tat on the upcoming Saturday.

http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_D_Colamarino071708.htm

OK, I was not aware of the two data points and I appreciate the two of you laying them out there for me. Since both stops required some time be run off the clock, there is no way she had time to drive up to Ric / Amy's.

The thing I will need to do is rationalize the pings up in their direction. The direction of the pings is OK, it is the distance that bothers me. Also, as she drove from the banking center to Cast Iron she drove right past a cell tower that she pinged off...then pinged off another couple quite some distance away. I find that odd.

concentric
11-30-2008, 05:19 PM
Can body decomp. fluids be absorbed UPWARDS into particle board or carpeting in the trunk?

Just wondering if she hid Caylee in the the spare tire compartment since George said that the odiferous stain was centered above that area?

Friday
11-30-2008, 05:21 PM
I don't know when she cashed that check, but it is plausible she dropped something off. In fact, that would make more sense. She was there very briefly, indicating that she did not look around for long. If all she had to do was drop something off she could get in/out quickly.

True but she would never feel obligated to "return" anything. I think she remembered she left something there when staying with Amy, and she knew she'd never have another chance to get it back, once Amy realized her bank account was cleaned out.

Just a thought. :)

Elley Mae
11-30-2008, 05:24 PM
Can body decomp. fluids be absorbed UPWARDS into particle board or carpeting in the trunk?

Just wondering if she hid Caylee in the the spare tire compartment since George said that the odiferous stain was centered above that area?

I would venture to say yes, if there is "contact" between the body and "material" that is absorbent. that the fluids would be drawn up by it.

Friday
11-30-2008, 05:26 PM
If they picked up the car and it smelled like decomposition and they hadn't seen KC or Caylee, then why would GA go to work if he was afraid it had been one of them?

Because after his initial panic over the stench, he remembered that Cindy had been in touch with KC throughout the entire period the car was impounded.
Or perhaps Cindy reminded him of that when they sat talking in their cars at Johnson's before finally driving off?

concentric
11-30-2008, 05:35 PM
I would venture to say yes, if there is "contact" between the body and "material" that is absorbent. that the fluids would be drawn up by it.

Thanks for your response. Is there any reason to be certain she was in a container or bag?

Elley Mae
11-30-2008, 05:44 PM
Thanks for your response. Is there any reason to be certain she was in a container or bag initially?

As far as I know that is speculation.

debs
11-30-2008, 06:47 PM
No, pings indicate she did not stop there. Everything indicates she drove right by.

"C., Danny – owner of Cast Iron Tattoo, the place where Casey got the tattoo Bella Vita (meaning Beautiful Life) on July 2 or 3, 2008. Casey has been customer there for about 1.5-2 years and regularly visits the establishment. He last saw Casey on July 15, 2008, between 2-4 p.m. She came in shop to schedule appointment for July 19, 2008. She arrived in maroon or red 4-door compact (Toyota maybe) and said she was picking up a friend at the airport and the friend’s luggage would not fit in her car. He had last seen Caylee 3 to 6 months ago. He asked about her, and Casey said she would bring her to the July 19 appointment."

mitzi
11-30-2008, 07:04 PM
Thanks for that info, I still wonder if Cindy returned to work and then came home, it looks like her first call (text)to Casey after the pick up was 4:27 IIRC, that could have been on her way home from work.


I also remember reading in the docs somewhere that as GA drove out of the towyard, he spoke to CA in the other car, because she asks him if he wants her to drive the Pontiac home because of the stench.

Now, if the first call/text to KC was at 4:27, and they got back home from the tow yard by around 1:30, IIRC, why would CA wait until almost 4:30 to text KC? If I smelled that car and hadn't seen my grandaughter for 31 days, I'd sure as heck try calling/texting KC IMMEDIATELY--as in, on the way home from the towyard. Why the delay? :waitasec:

passionflower
11-30-2008, 09:27 PM
I thought when Cindy called in to 911 originally she stated the car had been stolen. If it was for Casey's use why did she call and say the car was stolen?

I believe they let her use the car cause Casey gets what Casey wants or else the whole family pays a price. The Anthony's may have cooked up in their head that if anything ever happens (such as an accident) involving the car they will say they didn't give Casey permission to use it, she must have stolen it.....

and GA was a cop????? geez..........above the law, these ants are!

JWG
11-30-2008, 11:07 PM
Can body decomp. fluids be absorbed UPWARDS into particle board or carpeting in the trunk?

Just wondering if she hid Caylee in the the spare tire compartment since George said that the odiferous stain was centered above that area?

Short answer is yes. See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action).


Capillary action, capillarity, capillary motion, or wicking is the ability of a substance to draw another substance into it. The standard reference of capillary action is to a tube in plants, but it can be seen readily with porous paper.

Particle board, carpet, paper...all porous materials. Contact must be made between the fluid and the material - it cannot occur across an airgap.

Pink Panther
11-30-2008, 11:13 PM
I've wondered about the same things. The only explanation that makes sense is that she didn't dare get rid of them because she couldn't be sure one of the police officers hadn't already noticed them in the car that first night--or even the guy at the tow yard. Rather than get caught disposing of evidence, she washed them instead and put them away--and then, to cover herselfshe went and told LE what she'd done. That made her look more honest and innocent.

What do you think? Does that sound likely?"

This sounds VERY likely. She had no way of knowing whether or not Simon had seen the pants and the knife so she had to mention them, just in case.

MOO

whiskeygurl
12-01-2008, 11:41 AM
With the recent news that came out in the e-mail Cindy sent to the previous spokes person about tampering with the hair brushes. I come right back to the car. Her washing them pants, and possabilities of her wiping the car clean but not being able to remove the odor. Cindy had access to chloroform and it is use to clean stuff like that. I wonder if Cindy tried to remove any evidence that might have been in the car itself. Also I feel that there is something odd in Cindy. I would have to ponder that Cindy herself might be more deeply involved then some might wanna to admit.

eg@gm
12-01-2008, 12:45 PM
I thought when Cindy called in to 911 originally she stated the car had been stolen. If it was for Casey's use why did she call and say the car was stolen?

I believe they let her use the car cause Casey gets what Casey wants or else the whole family pays a price. The Anthony's may have cooked up in their head that if anything ever happens (such as an accident) involving the car they will say they didn't give Casey permission to use it, she must have stolen it.....

I think she was just so mad and couldn't think of any other way to get Casey to start talking about where Caylee was. She wanted to scare her.

concentric
12-01-2008, 04:50 PM
Short answer is yes. See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action).



Particle board, carpet, paper...all porous materials. Contact must be made between the fluid and the material - it cannot occur across an airgap.

Thanks. Wonder if she had Caylee under there if/when George saw the trunk re: the gas cans.

Contact with the body would have been possible, especially if she loaded some stuff on top of that area, which would press the carpet/board, etc. closer to the body.

Baznme
12-01-2008, 10:06 PM
Thanks. Wonder if she had Caylee under there if/when George saw the trunk re: the gas cans.

Contact with the body would have been possible, especially if she loaded some stuff on top of that area, which would press the carpet/board, etc. closer to the body.


That wheelwell is only 5 inches deep. It was pretty tight in there.

shadow of my mind
12-02-2008, 10:01 PM
I have been thinking….
Two things about the A's going back to work on July 15.
If they were going to be home why take the battery out of the car so it could not be taken?
Someone at both Cindy's and George’s work would be able to verify if they came back to work or not.

The main question is did someone clean the trunk out because they only found one hair in the trunk.

The car was not taken right away by LE on July 15 but was towed on the July 16th. I do not recall if there is any documentation to when that took place. We do know that Johnson’s was called to come and pick up the car from the A’s home. Johnson’s is one of the designated towing company’s that do contract work for OCSO.

What initiated the car being towed at that point?
Apparently GA told LE about the garbage in the back of the trunk because it was retrieved from the tow yard the night of July 16 as per Simone B. statement in his interview. The question is when did GA impart this information to LE.

Casey was arrested about 5:00PM on July 16 and up until that time LE was still treating this case as strictly a kidnapping. The car was not an issue.

I would think that had GA said anything to LE about the smell in the car he would have done so the night of July15 and the car trunk would have been sealed and the car taken a lot sooner than 24 hours later. Since the bag of garbage was not retrieved from the tow yard until later on night of July 16th I would have to assume that nothing was said. So to me that means that the car was not an issue the night of July 15 or even the early morning hours of July 16 and not really paid attention to by LE at all until it was towed later in the day on July 16th and the bag was retrieved from the yard.
If this is the case Cindy, George or Lee could have cleaned out the trunk anytime LE left after bringing Casey back from her tour of Orlando with the officers. IIRC that was at approximately 7:00AM and they did not come back to pick her up to take her to Universal until about noon on July 16. If there was no LE still at the home between 7AM and noon that would be a more ideal time to when the car could have been cleaned.


This is all speculation. We would have to go over the reports by LE to see if there is a way to discern when someone from LE was at the A’s home and if there was in fact an opportunity open for the car to be cleaned.
I have to get back to the kitchen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted this on the 'Casey Borrowered Cindy's car' thread but it has more relevance here.

Quoting myself and answering myself. I bolded what I wanted to find out.

I went back and listened to the Bond Hearing video by Cindy to get this information. I knew I had heard the times in reference to LE at the home on July 15-16 somewhere.

Cindy answering a question about being able to spend any time alone with Casey

There was LE there all night and into the morning. I maybe was able to spend a minuet or 2 in passing alone but that was all. They kept us separated, I was in the house and I knew that they had taken Casey out in there car several times, but I don’t know exactly when but when the Officers brought Casey back to the house the morning of July 16th about 7:00-7:30AM and was in Casey was in her room talking on the phone until about 10:00AM and they worked on creating a myspace page together for about 2 hours until noon when the detective came back and picked her up.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/My...1&locale=EN-US

There is not mention of any LE at the home from the time Casey was dropped off around 7:00-7:30AM until they came and picked her up at noon to go to Universal Studios for more questioning.

JusticeorJustUs
12-03-2008, 07:18 AM
Does anyone know if there is a picture of the trunk of the Pontiac anywhere? Does anyone know if the carpeting was gray?

Thanks in advance.

BeanE
12-03-2008, 08:43 AM
Quoting myself and answering myself. I bolded what I wanted to find out.

I went back and listened to the Bond Hearing video by Cindy to get this information. I knew I had heard the times in reference to LE at the home on July 15-16 somewhere.

Cindy answering a question about being able to spend any time alone with Casey

There was LE there all night and into the morning. I maybe was able to spend a minuet or 2 in passing alone but that was all. They kept us separated, I was in the house and I knew that they had taken Casey out in there car several times, but I don’t know exactly when but when the Officers brought Casey back to the house the morning of July 16th about 7:00-7:30AM and was in Casey was in her room talking on the phone until about 10:00AM and they worked on creating a myspace page together for about 2 hours until noon when the detective came back and picked her up.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/My...1&locale=EN-US

There is not mention of any LE at the home from the time Casey was dropped off around 7:00-7:30AM until they came and picked her up at noon to go to Universal Studios for more questioning.

- Lee reported in his OCSO LE interview that he and Casey were alone in the garage while the sheriffs were at the house. If true, while not an opportunity for major cleaning, it was certainly an opportunity for removal of evidence from the car, and possibly some minor/quick wiping up.

- In a news interview, neighbor Brittany Schieber reported looking out the window on the morning of July 16 and seeing the car in the driveway, opened up, and George and Cindy cleaning it out. I've been trying to find this interview again to see if she added any more detail of what she meant by cleaning, i.e., taking stuff out of the car, or wiping and scrubbing.

I've also been looking for the elusive 3rd OCSO LE interview of Cindy to listen to again for her account of Lee and George's activities July 15/16. Starting re-listening yesterday to George's OCSO LE interviews for his account of everyone's activities.

I'll pass on in this thread anything of note I come across.

Fridawolf
12-03-2008, 01:08 PM
With the recent news that came out in the e-mail Cindy sent to the previous spokes person about tampering with the hair brushes. I come right back to the car. Her washing them pants, and possabilities of her wiping the car clean but not being able to remove the odor. Cindy had access to chloroform and it is use to clean stuff like that. I wonder if Cindy tried to remove any evidence that might have been in the car itself. Also I feel that there is something odd in Cindy. I would have to ponder that Cindy herself might be more deeply involved then some might wanna to admit.

I've wondered about this too. From the very beginning I was thinking that maybe the chloroform was used in the attempt to get rid of forensic evidence. I wonder what date the chloroform searches were done. If they were done after June 16 then Maybe KC was researching it for clean up purposes. If the searches were done July 15, maybe CA did them (after car was retrieved). But did they say that "chloroform and death" were being websearched (in conjunction with eachother or as separate searches)? I wouldn't put it past CA to do a little cleaning with chloroform--everything she does in the attempt to cover for KC (verbally or otherwise) seems to backfire! CA, by her own devices, has done more to implicate and redflag KC than help her.

Spitfire4ever
12-03-2008, 01:44 PM
I've wondered about this too. From the very beginning I was thinking that maybe the chloroform was used in the attempt to get rid of forensic evidence. I wonder what date the chloroform searches were done. If they were done after June 16 then Maybe KC was researching it for clean up purposes. If the searches were done July 15, maybe CA did them (after car was retrieved). But did they say that "chloroform and death" were being websearched (in conjunction with eachother or as separate searches)? I wouldn't put it past CA to do a little cleaning with chloroform--everything she does in the attempt to cover for KC (verbally or otherwise) seems to backfire! CA, by her own devices, has done more to implicate and redflag KC than help her.


Chloroform searches were done in March 2008

BeanE
12-03-2008, 03:57 PM
Finally found a PDF transcript of the Aug 4 OCSO LE interview of Cindy. Here's the additional info I found as promised:

http://flawebhosting.net/docdump110608/cynthia%20anthony.pdf

Page 2073, line 23

Cindy claims she got home between 5:30 and 6pm. Didn't go through the car. Found Amy's resume under Casey's purse on the front seat. Called Amy.

Next page. Detective asks her if she thinks Amy called Casey after Cindy called Amy. Cindy says Amy didn't say, and there was nothing to indicate she had.

Note of interest: page 2101, line 2, Cindy says Amy's resumes (plural) were not only in Casey's bag, but in an envelope in Casey's bag. Between this interview and the FBI interview, Cindy keeps changing her mind about whether Amy's resume was IN the bag or UNDER the bag. She makes a point to say to she didn't go through the stuff in the car, although nobody ever asks her if she did or not. Personally, I'm gonna have to assume that Cindy went through that bag and for some reason is worried that somebody is going to find out.

MaryAnn
12-03-2008, 05:59 PM
With the recent news that came out in the e-mail Cindy sent to the previous spokes person about tampering with the hair brushes. I come right back to the car. Her washing them pants, and possabilities of her wiping the car clean but not being able to remove the odor. Cindy had access to chloroform and it is use to clean stuff like that. I wonder if Cindy tried to remove any evidence that might have been in the car itself. Also I feel that there is something odd in Cindy. I would have to ponder that Cindy herself might be more deeply involved then some might wanna to admit.

I never thought of that. That does make a lot of sense. It's obvious now that CA will do anyting to save KC. This could also be the reason why she won't take a lie detector test. Maybe KC overdosed Caylee with Xanax. I can't even imagine how that poor baby would feel on xanax. I've taken it and I personally hate it. It makes me feel horrible.

Baznme
12-08-2008, 01:13 PM
Is it my imagination or is there a tear in the underside of the black bra of KC's car? Looking at it from the front, look to the left of the midline (bottom).

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/crime/orl-photos-casey-anthony-car-111408,0,4447460.photogallery

kageykaren
12-08-2008, 01:31 PM
Looks like a tear. I wonder if those darn cocleburs or anything else might have been caught in that rip?

Baznme
12-08-2008, 01:46 PM
Looks like a tear. I wonder if those darn cocleburs or anything else might have been caught in that rip?

I wonder if LE put that car on a lift and took a good look at any tissue or debris that might have been under there and around where that tear is.

I saw in the news that's what the defense team wants to do.

Bobo
12-08-2008, 02:12 PM
Finally found a PDF transcript of the Aug 4 OCSO LE interview of Cindy. Here's the additional info I found as promised:

http://flawebhosting.net/docdump110608/cynthia%20anthony.pdf

Page 2073, line 23

Cindy claims she got home between 5:30 and 6pm. Didn't go through the car. Found Amy's resume under Casey's purse on the front seat. Called Amy.

Next page. Detective asks her if she thinks Amy called Casey after Cindy called Amy. Cindy says Amy didn't say, and there was nothing to indicate she had.

Note of interest: page 2101, line 2, Cindy says Amy's resumes (plural) were not only in Casey's bag, but in an envelope in Casey's bag. Between this interview and the FBI interview, Cindy keeps changing her mind about whether Amy's resume was IN the bag or UNDER the bag. She makes a point to say to she didn't go through the stuff in the car, although nobody ever asks her if she did or not. Personally, I'm gonna have to assume that Cindy went through that bag and for some reason is worried that somebody is going to find out.
<Bolding by me>
IIRC, in the text messages between KC and Amy, there was a period of time (mid-June? -please don't make me go back to those text messages:bang:) when KC was going to give Amy's resume to several of her contacts at Universal. All a lie, of course, but Amy was trying to get a better-paying job and was grateful for KC's "help." Poor Amy.

sometimer
12-08-2008, 03:51 PM
There was one recent interview with CA where she stated that she ask LE if she could go ahead and wash the clothes and they told her yes. Then later they wanted them. (I don't have a link for it)
In the 911 call she stated that the car smelled like a dead body, so LE was aware of that when they first arrived.
I don't think the LE took things seriously when they first arrived. I believe they thought it was just a family dispute and everyone there was just overreacting.
I don't think CA OR GA realized this was really happening at first either. They thought they could force KC to tell them where Caylee was.

debs
12-08-2008, 03:54 PM
There was one recent interview with CA where she stated that she ask LE if she could go ahead and wash the clothes and they told her yes. Then later they wanted them. (I don't have a link for it)
In the 911 call she stated that the car smelled like a dead body, so LE was aware of that when they first arrived.
I don't think the LE took things seriously when they first arrived. I believe they thought it was just a family dispute and everyone there was just overreacting.
I don't think CA OR GA realized this was really happening at first either. They thought they could force KC to tell them where Caylee was.

You know, you are absolutely right. It is on the 911 call that Cindy makes the statement about the dead body in the damn car. Why DIDN'T they take that car that night? Why DIDN'T police determine that it should be impounded immediately? It wasn't due to reluctance on the Anthony's part; George allowed them to take it as soon as they asked for it.

This will be a great unknown for me.

Bev
12-08-2008, 03:56 PM
They didn't seize the car because they had to get a search warrant first. Even if the suspect or the suspect's family gives LE "permission" it is still best practice to obtain a warrant.

Bobo
12-08-2008, 04:15 PM
You know, you are absolutely right. It is on the 911 call that Cindy makes the statement about the dead body in the damn car. Why DIDN'T they take that car that night? Why DIDN'T police determine that it should be impounded immediately? It wasn't due to reluctance on the Anthony's part; George allowed them to take it as soon as they asked for it.

This will be a great unknown for me.

I dunno. I just thought that the initial responding officers were responding to the theft complaint. Then, after the 3rd 911 call with the "my granddaughter's missing--something's wrong" and "smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car" statements from CA, then another division (Yuri's missing children) was called in and arrived later than the first LE responders. What I don't understand is if the car smelled so bad and was in the garage with the doors/trunk open "airing out," did no one from LE ever go in the garage and smell that smell?

I'm not sure Yuri's responders heard the 911 call before responding. Does anyone know how that works? That is, when a 911 call is made, how is it determined which division of LE responds? And further, does that division of LE listen to the 911 call itself before responding?

I'm thinking that the 911 folks get enough info from the 911 call to determine which LE division to send out and the officers sent are not necessarily briefed on all the details of the call. In this case, the Theft Division (or whatever it's named) was called first; the Missing Children Division (or whatever is Yuri's Division) was called next, not Homicide. It was only after KC led Yuri, et al on a wild-lie-chase that they were able to see that this may not be just a missing child case. Thus, the delay in looking at the Pontiac Sunfire -- Everyone led them in directions away from the car. :MOO:

Anyone know for sure?

ETA> Oh yeah, Bev -- GOOD CALL! Search Warrant is a good thing!

april_showers
12-12-2008, 03:32 PM
If this murder was premeditated, it was a really crappy job…

I know that isn’t much of a surprise considering everything we’ve learned about KC over the past six months.

However, I’ve always had the feeling that this whole situation was at least loosely premeditated – at least along the lines of random fantasies of revenge on CA, a quick peek at a chloroform site here and a missing children’s site there… daydreams about being the new, hot single girl around town, etc.

I don’t believe she ever really thought the details through, however. I think, with KC’s entire life spent within the Anthony bubble, she truly believed this issue would exist only within that bubble – as long as she kept her mother at bay she’d be fine. Hence no real effort to cover her tracks.

I know most / all of this has been said before.

What I’m getting at here (and I hope I can verbalize this correctly), is how shockingly simple the whole scenario has turned out to be. She did the deed, drove to her parent’s, climbed into the woods… and took care of the remains (and likely “jogged” back to her house from the entrance to the woods on Suburban).

But I just can’t stop thinking about that car. This case’s “Tell-tale Heart,” if you will. KC erased her daughter from her life, and quickly moved on as if nothing had happened. Until a smell started to emanate from the trunk that she could not get rid of. It got worse, and worse, and worse. That car, that smell, that constant reminder of what had occurred. The ticking tell-tale heart. It got so bad that she was forced to abandon her car. And then things went completely awry.

And now, when all is said and done, with the location of poor Caylee’s remains, I cannot help thinking…

She didn’t even need that car.

If she had thought about doing this – why not just do it in the yard (as some have speculated) and toss the body back in the woods? No decomp in the car – no CA calling police on the smell, etc.

I know there are a million other scenarios at play – why it must have happened elsewhere, a crime of passion or anger after the big fight… she probably didn’t realize decomp would leave such a lasting trail so quickly, etc.

But – if we are to assume that she put some thought into this scenario before actually taking action… I can’t help but think what would have happened if she had just done the deed the Anthony’s yard. They would have noticed an odd smell a week or so later, moved a few bushes and pavers around, and washed their hands of it.

And KC might still be cooking dinner at Tony’s apartment this evening.

And that, fellow sleuthers, is the scariest part of all...

EricaG
12-12-2008, 03:45 PM
Thank you--this post clearly and concisely summarized all my thought. Of the thousands of theories ans scenarios that we have played with, it truly is the simplest "gut instict" we all had to begin with.:clap::clap:

EricaG
12-12-2008, 03:46 PM
Thank you--this post clearly and concisely summarized all my thoughts. Of the thousands of theories ans scenarios that we have played with, it truly is the simplest "gut instict" we all had to begin with.:clap::clap:

Boston
12-12-2008, 03:47 PM
I think Caylee's death was brought on by one of the following scenerios

1) She drugged Caylee with Chloroform & let her sleep in the trunk so she could stay at Tony's after the fight with her Mother. The next morning Caylee was dead.

2) During the argument on June 15th Cindy gave Casey an ultimatum....."Find a job & a place of your own to live or I'm going to file for custody of Caylee." Casey became so enraged that she killed Caylee to prevent Cindy from ever "Taking Her"

lannie
12-12-2008, 04:00 PM
I understand what you are implying but I think KC drove around in that car with Caylee's body in the trunk untill KC could not stand the decaying smell any longer, I think the baby died in the trunk of that car ,I think KC put her in there while she partied all night ,then when to someone's home sleep or what evey & did not get her baby out in time, before the hot sun got her, that could be why the remaines did not have clohing on it as the child could of pulled them off as she got hoter & hoter, ,I think she left the body in the car until it began to rot ,hence the evidence of a body in the trunk ,that took time .
Pizza left in heat drys up gets as hard as a rock ,maggets do not live in extream heat ,they have that bag ,wonder if there will be a match to the bag the baby was found in .

Shar824
12-12-2008, 04:30 PM
I understand what you are implying but I think KC drove around in that car with Caylee's body in the trunk untill KC could not stand the decaying smell any longer, I think the baby died in the trunk of that car ,I think KC put her in there while she partied all night ,then when to someone's home sleep or what evey & did not get her baby out in time, before the hot sun got her, that could be why the remaines did not have clohing on it as the child could of pulled them off as she got hoter & hoter, ,I think she left the body in the car until it began to rot ,hence the evidence of a body in the trunk ,that took time .
Pizza left in heat drys up gets as hard as a rock ,maggets do not live in extream heat ,they have that bag ,wonder if there will be a match to the bag the baby was found in .


From what I understand in GA's interview with LE/FBI he stated the bag in the back of the car was one of those white/opaque 13 gal bags with drawstrings, the bag the remains were in was one of the large black lawn/leaf type bags.

Fridawolf
12-12-2008, 06:04 PM
If this murder was premeditated, it was a really crappy job…

I know that isn’t much of a surprise considering everything we’ve learned about KC over the past six months.

However, I’ve always had the feeling that this whole situation was at least loosely premeditated – at least along the lines of random fantasies of revenge on CA, a quick peek at a chloroform site here and a missing children’s site there… daydreams about being the new, hot single girl around town, etc.

I don’t believe she ever really thought the details through, however. I think, with KC’s entire life spent within the Anthony bubble, she truly believed this issue would exist only within that bubble – as long as she kept her mother at bay she’d be fine. Hence no real effort to cover her tracks.

I know most / all of this has been said before.

What I’m getting at here (and I hope I can verbalize this correctly), is how shockingly simple the whole scenario has turned out to be. She did the deed, drove to her parent’s, climbed into the woods… and took care of the remains (and likely “jogged” back to her house from the entrance to the woods on Suburban).

But I just can’t stop thinking about that car. This case’s “Tell-tale Heart,” if you will. KC erased her daughter from her life, and quickly moved on as if nothing had happened. Until a smell started to emanate from the trunk that she could not get rid of. It got worse, and worse, and worse. That car, that smell, that constant reminder of what had occurred. The ticking tell-tale heart. It got so bad that she was forced to abandon her car. And then things went completely awry.

And now, when all is said and done, with the location of poor Caylee’s remains, I cannot help thinking…

She didn’t even need that car.

If she had thought about doing this – why not just do it in the yard (as some have speculated) and toss the body back in the woods? No decomp in the car – no CA calling police on the smell, etc.

I know there are a million other scenarios at play – why it must have happened elsewhere, a crime of passion or anger after the big fight… she probably didn’t realize decomp would leave such a lasting trail so quickly, etc.

But – if we are to assume that she put some thought into this scenario before actually taking action… I can’t help but think what would have happened if she had just done the deed the Anthony’s yard. They would have noticed an odd smell a week or so later, moved a few bushes and pavers around, and washed their hands of it.

And KC might still be cooking dinner at Tony’s apartment this evening.

And that, fellow sleuthers, is the scariest part of all...

Now that you mention "jogging," does anybody remember reading in one of the interviews that one of KC's friends asked her if it were her they saw jogging down Chicksaw (Street, Road..whatever it is) to which she replied "No." I believe the guy in the interview was referring to a text message he sent KC during that time period in June. Am I right about that?

april_showers
12-12-2008, 06:30 PM
Now that you mention "jogging," does anybody remember reading in one of the interviews that one of KC's friends asked her if it were her they saw jogging down Chicksaw (Street, Road..whatever it is) to which she replied "No." I believe the guy in the interview was referring to a text message he sent KC during that time period in June. Am I right about that?




it was Chris S I believe - saw her jogging in that area the morning of the 15th - and texted her about it. she was very quick to claim there was no way it could have been her...

Don't have the link to the docs right now (busy at work - and already spending way too much time here instead of working :) ), but that's just what I recall

Origrammi
12-12-2008, 06:41 PM
I think Caylee's death was brought on by one of the following scenerios

1) She drugged Caylee with Chloroform & let her sleep in the trunk so she could stay at Tony's after the fight with her Mother. The next morning Caylee was dead.

2) During the argument on June 15th Cindy gave Casey an ultimatum....."Find a job & a place of your own to live or I'm going to file for custody of Caylee." Casey became so enraged that she killed Caylee to prevent Cindy from ever "Taking Her"

I just heard this on HLN...Atty' said first degree murder in Florida would have to have circumstances relating to extreme neglet or abuse and he mentioned 3 things...one of which was "CAGED". He said there is no evidence of that...

Maybe I'm wrong here but L.P. said there was a witness that saw Casey in the parking lot of (I believe he said hotel) in the wee hours of a morning pacing and talking on the cell phone....Stick with me here...

If Casey had been used to putting duct tape over the baby's mouth and putting her in the trunk, or even if she only did it one time resulting in her death...

Wouldn't the trunk of that car serve the same purpose as a CAGE???

I read in other threads Caylee had a red rash around her mouth...that could have been from placing tape there.

In short, the trunk of the car IMO is no different than a cage and should be considered as such at trial. Anyone else have an idea on this one?

Marple
12-12-2008, 06:43 PM
it was Chris S I believe - saw her jogging in that area the morning of the 15th - and texted her about it. she was very quick to claim there was no way it could have been her...

Don't have the link to the docs right now (busy at work - and already spending way too much time here instead of working :) ), but that's just what I recall


Chris S believed he saw her jogging down Chickasaw on July 15.
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/092608christopherstutz/1/lg/Christopher_Stutz_Page_12.htm

AZlawyer
12-12-2008, 07:42 PM
Chris S believed he saw her jogging down Chickasaw on July 15.
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/092608christopherstutz/1/lg/Christopher_Stutz_Page_12.htm


It turned out once his text messages were released that it was July 14 he thought he saw her.

Forensic fan
12-18-2008, 01:24 PM
I was wondering, what will they do with the Pontiac after this is all over? I'm thinking they'd just take it to the junk yard if it still smells so bad.

frenchvixen
12-18-2008, 02:24 PM
Last night NG mentioned that one very important point is to make sure that the car was always in KC's posession. This will be important in proving her guilt b/c if the hair in the trunk matches the hair on the skull, then it can be proven that she killed Caylee b/c she was the one driving the car. I remember the A's saying that there was no smell in the car when it was towed (how did she know that?). I'm sure JB will try to say that the car was not continuously with KC.

Do we know of any other person borrowing or driving that car up until KC abandoned it at Amscot? Also, is there a way that JB can discredit the tow truck operators when they testify that the car was always there? Is there 24hour service at Amscot? What about the tow truck operator who said that he didn't smell anything? Can this be seen as suspicious during trial?

reeseeva
12-18-2008, 02:29 PM
Just heard on NG last night that not matter what forensics are linked to Casey from the trunk of the car the prosecution would have to show that she had continuous use of the car. Can someone enlighten me as to where the car was from June 16th until it got towed.

Also Casey did not stay a home after the 16th......where was she from that date until July 15th. I recall that AL went away on a trip....where was she staying?

Another thought, looking at the ping map on the 16th, she was up all night according to calls or texts. Was she home or out driving around?

Thanks to anyone who can help!:confused:

JWG
12-22-2008, 12:27 PM
I just posted the following on the PC and related searches thread in response to chloroform searches. However, I believe it also belongs here because, IMHO, it provides an explanation as to when the car was cleaned, why it was cleaned, and how chloroform may have ended up in the trunk.

George and Cindy drive to the tow yard to retrieve the Pontiac. It is important to remember that neither at that point in time have any idea whatsoever that Caylee is missing. They simply believe Casey has been preventing them from seeing her.

George opens the car door and smells what he believes is human decomposition (and we later learn he was correct.) Mr. Burch smells it too.

George is obviously worried it might be Caylee or even Casey. He asks Mr. Burch to go to the trunk with him. They open the trunk and there is no body, but there is a bag of trash with flies and maggots on it. Mr. Burch says that must be the source of the smell and tosses the bag. George never inspects the garbage to make sure there was a pizza in it - why should he?

IMHO, it is quite reasonable for George to temporarily accept this alternate explanation for the smell because he is not aware that Caylee is missing.

Progressing with the sequence of events, George drives the car home, puts it in the garage, and disconnects the battery just in case his daughter shows up and tries to drive it away. Cindy comments on the smell being that of something dead. George says there was a bag of garbage in the trunk with a pizza in it and that the bag had maggots and flies on it. Cindy asks if it was the pizza and George says it was. Again, a reminder that to this point neither knows Caylee is missing.

I can imagine George then saying a few things about how irresponsible Casey had become to abandon a perfectly good vehicle, never tell her parents about it, and on top of all that leave a bag of rotting garbage in the trunk while the car sat in the hot Florida sun for two weeks.

The two try to air out the car while it is parked in the garage, and I believe they try to clean it. First they spray the bugs in the trunk with pesticide, which may have been manufactured with chloroform as a solvent. Then they vacuum out the dead bugs and other debris. They try to clean the stain in the trunk, which they believe came from the trash bag. They may have used their portable steam cleaner to do this. They may have used dry cleaning fluid to do this which, by the way, has chloroform as an ingredient.

Cindy cleans out the interior, seeing Casey's slacks, noticing the smell, and tossing them in the wash. Remember, they are trying to clean a stinking car their daughter abandoned and they had to "bail out" for several hundred dollars. They still do not have any clue Caylee is missing.

Cindy texts Casey, gets a response, texts her back, gets another response. No idea what was in that exchange. George takes off for work.

Cindy continues going through the car and runs across Amy's resume. Apparently Cindy's text exchange earlier with Casey did not satisfy the question(s) she had, so she calls Amy and asks her to take her to Casey.

During the ride over Cindy complains about Casey. IIRC it ran the gamut of her stealing, lying, not letting them see Casey. They arrive at Tony's, get Casey, and drive back to Ric's to drop Amy off.

Now Cindy wants some answers. She is angry and confused, and Casey is not giving her a story that makes sense. They drive to a police station, and from the parking lot Cindy makes the first 911 call. She also calls George. George calls Lee and asks him to head over to their house to help Cindy get to the bottom of whatever is going on. Cindy drives back to the home with Casey - Lee is already there.

Cindy makes a second 911 call. Continues trying to talk to Casey and get some answers. George heads home from work. Cindy leaves the room and Lee tries talking to her. It is then that Casey mentions the kidnapping story which Cindy overhears. She rushes in, gets more information from Casey, and goes into a panic. I submit that this is the point where Cindy first puts two and two together.

She calls 911 again, this time mentioning the car smell and missing baby, and George happens to walk in on the call.

I do not view their cleaning of the call earlier as anything but innocent given they were not working with all the facts. If they hid the fact they cleaned the car in later LE interviews, that is obstruction. But the act itself was not.

chris1990
12-22-2008, 12:43 PM
I just posted the following on the PC and related searches thread in response to chloroform searches. However, I believe it also belongs here because, IMHO, it provides an explanation as to when the car was cleaned, why it was cleaned, and how chloroform may have ended up in the trunk.

George and Cindy drive to the tow yard to retrieve the Pontiac. It is important to remember that neither at that point in time have any idea whatsoever that Caylee is missing. They simply believe Casey has been preventing them from seeing her.

George opens the car door and smells what he believes is human decomposition (and we later learn he was correct.) Mr. Burch smells it too.

George is obviously worried it might be Caylee or even Casey. He asks Mr. Burch to go to the trunk with him. They open the trunk and there is no body, but there is a bag of trash with flies and maggots on it. Mr. Burch says that must be the source of the smell and tosses the bag. George never inspects the garbage to make sure there was a pizza in it - why should he?

IMHO, it is quite reasonable for George to temporarily accept this alternate explanation for the smell because he is not aware that Caylee is missing.

Progressing with the sequence of events, George drives the car home, puts it in the garage, and disconnects the battery just in case his daughter shows up and tries to drive it away. Cindy comments on the smell being that of something dead. George says there was a bag of garbage in the trunk with a pizza in it and that the bag had maggots and flies on it. Cindy asks if it was the pizza and George says it was. Again, a reminder that to this point neither knows Caylee is missing.

I can imagine George then saying a few things about how irresponsible Casey had become to abandon a perfectly good vehicle, never tell her parents about it, and on top of all that leave a bag of rotting garbage in the trunk while the car sat in the hot Florida sun for two weeks.

The two try to air out the car while it is parked in the garage, and I believe they try to clean it. First they spray the bugs in the trunk with pesticide, which may have been manufactured with chloroform as a solvent. Then they vacuum out the dead bugs and other debris. They try to clean the stain in the trunk, which they believe came from the trash bag. They may have used their portable steam cleaner to do this. They may have used dry cleaning fluid to do this which, by the way, has chloroform as an ingredient.

Cindy cleans out the interior, seeing Casey's slacks, noticing the smell, and tossing them in the wash. Remember, they are trying to clean a stinking car their daughter abandoned and they had to "bail out" for several hundred dollars. They still do not have any clue Caylee is missing.

Cindy texts Casey, gets a response, texts her back, gets another response. No idea what was in that exchange. George takes off for work.

Cindy continues going through the car and runs across Amy's resume. Apparently Cindy's text exchange earlier with Casey did not satisfy the question(s) she had, so she calls Amy and asks her to take her to Casey.

During the ride over Cindy complains about Casey. IIRC it ran the gamut of her stealing, lying, not letting them see Casey. They arrive at Tony's, get Casey, and drive back to Ric's to drop Amy off.

Now Cindy wants some answers. She is angry and confused, and Casey is not giving her a story that makes sense. They drive to a police station, and from the parking lot Cindy makes the first 911 call. She also calls George. George calls Lee and asks him to head over to their house to help Cindy get to the bottom of whatever is going on. Cindy drives back to the home with Casey - Lee is already there.

Cindy makes a second 911 call. Continues trying to talk to Casey and get some answers. George heads home from work. Cindy leaves the room and Lee tries talking to her. It is then that Casey mentions the kidnapping story which Cindy overhears. She rushes in, gets more information from Casey, and goes into a panic. I submit that this is the point where Cindy first puts two and two together.

She calls 911 again, this time mentioning the car smell and missing baby, and George happens to walk in on the call.

I do not view their cleaning of the call earlier as anything but innocent given they were not working with all the facts. If they hid the fact they cleaned the car in later LE interviews, that is obstruction. But the act itself was not.

thank you, this is exactly how i see it too. they are greiving and my heart goes out to them. they just never wanted to execpt Caylee was gone.

DAWN TREADER
12-22-2008, 01:45 PM
Personally, I think it is very interesting (read highly probative) that GA asks the storage yard owner to look in the trunk with him.

DT

costalpilot
12-22-2008, 01:57 PM
I
She didn’t even need that car.

If she had thought about doing this – why not just do it in the yard (as some have speculated) and toss the body back in the woods? No decomp in the car – no CA calling police on the smell, etc.
.



indecision, second quessing, paranoria......she did the deed and put caylee in the tunk til she could come up with the time and the right place to get rid of her, but she certainly was not thinking she would dump her that cloae to home.

at first.

then the paranoia set in and she faced the daunting prospect of driving somewhere in the city, taking her out of the car, and disposing of her in a public area.

then her fears got the best of her and she took the most secretive way out.
not what she would have chosen in a less heated situation,

imo

lannie
12-23-2008, 05:23 PM
If this murder was premeditated, it was a really crappy job…

I know that isn’t much of a surprise considering everything we’ve learned about KC over the past six months.

However, I’ve always had the feeling that this whole situation was at least loosely premeditated – at least along the lines of random fantasies of revenge on CA, a quick peek at a chloroform site here and a missing children’s site there… daydreams about being the new, hot single girl around town, etc.

I don’t believe she ever really thought the details through, however. I think, with KC’s entire life spent within the Anthony bubble, she truly believed this issue would exist only within that bubble – as long as she kept her mother at bay she’d be fine. Hence no real effort to cover her tracks.

I know most / all of this has been said before.

What I’m getting at here (and I hope I can verbalize this correctly), is how shockingly simple the whole scenario has turned out to be. She did the deed, drove to her parent’s, climbed into the woods… and took care of the remains (and likely “jogged” back to her house from the entrance to the woods on Suburban).

But I just can’t stop thinking about that car. This case’s “Tell-tale Heart,” if you will. KC erased her daughter from her life, and quickly moved on as if nothing had happened. Until a smell started to emanate from the trunk that she could not get rid of. It got worse, and worse, and worse. That car, that smell, that constant reminder of what had occurred. The ticking tell-tale heart. It got so bad that she was forced to abandon her car. And then things went completely awry.

And now, when all is said and done, with the location of poor Caylee’s remains, I cannot help thinking…

She didn’t even need that car.

If she had thought about doing this – why not just do it in the yard (as some have speculated) and toss the body back in the woods? No decomp in the car – no CA calling police on the smell, etc.

I know there are a million other scenarios at play – why it must have happened elsewhere, a crime of passion or anger after the big fight… she probably didn’t realize decomp would leave such a lasting trail so quickly, etc.

But – if we are to assume that she put some thought into this scenario before actually taking action… I can’t help but think what would have happened if she had just done the deed the Anthony’s yard. They would have noticed an odd smell a week or so later, moved a few bushes and pavers around, and washed their hands of it.

And KC might still be cooking dinner at Tony’s apartment this evening.

And that, fellow sleuthers, is the scariest part of all...

I still think little Caylee died in that trunk & CA let ther lay in there untill she started to decay .

Secretsolver
12-26-2008, 10:59 PM
When GA was at the tow yard, I thought it was said that GA had mentioned to the tow yard guy that his daughter had been missing and that they did not know where their Granddaughter was.If this is the case, then WHY would GA take the stinky car home and begin to scrub it down when at that time they did not know if Caylee was okay at that point? He testified to authorities that he (GA) asked Simon the tow guy to help him open the trunk all the while praying "please don't let this smell be my grand daughter"
SO, IMO scrubbing that trunk, cleaning the car, and washing Caseys smelly clothing were all indicative of the A's trying to cover things up.

karenz
01-21-2009, 02:51 PM
Doc dump of 1/21/09 says GAS GUAGE WORKING which means another lie from KC. Which says to me she made that up to keep people away from the smelly car AND she made other people buy her gas.

Intermezzo
01-21-2009, 03:16 PM
Doc dump of 1/21/09 says GAS GUAGE WORKING which means another lie from KC. Which says to me she made that up to keep people away from the smelly car AND she made other people buy her gas.

Yup, another Casey lie
Gas gauge working PROPERLY
So she was irresponsible and let the car run out of gas or it never ran out of gas and used it as an excuse to hit other people up for gas.

tweety933
01-24-2009, 12:45 AM
Who was it that pushed the car into the Amscot parking lot, on what day & time, was there anyone other than Casey in the car at the time?
Who picked up Casey from the Amscot, on what day & time, was she alone? If not, where was Caylee at these dates & times? What possessions did Casey take with her when she was picked up after she left the Amscot, where are those possessions, now? Did she attempt to retrieve the car from the Amscot, on what day & time, and what was wrong with the car that it couldn't be retrieved from the Amscot, and had to be towed? I have to understand this event to nail down why on God's green earth Casey did not get her car from Amscot?

I know I wouldn't leave my car to be towed without finding a way to get it back, or at least to a shop or somewhere to keep it until I could afford to fix it, and surely NOT at a tow lot that I would have to pay storage on. This event is puzzling to me, could someone help me out with what evidence there is in released interviews or other reliable sources to clarify this event?

Thanks in Advance!

blackopsglock
01-24-2009, 12:56 AM
There seems to be a lot of confusion about the car.I can't seem to get a strait answer on it from anyone.

ndrew
01-24-2009, 01:10 AM
I have wondered if KC pulled into the parking lot with a very low tank of gas and just sat with the car running until it ran out of gas as part of her plan to ditch the smelly car. Perhaps her plan was to leave the car for a few days thinking the smell would go away and she could then go back for the car. Maybe she did go back only to discover the car had been towed. Kc could have been planning to work the missing car in with Caylee missing - the nanny took them both plan.

I did also notice in one jail visit that CA had a list of question she was asking KC. One of the questions asked by CA "Why didn't she go back to get the car?" was most likely read just as CA had written the question to remind herself to ask KC and the "she" was KC. Does anyone remember if KC answered that question?

iamkimba
01-24-2009, 06:21 AM
Who was it that pushed the car into the Amscot parking lot, on what day & time, was there anyone other than Casey in the car at the time?
Who picked up Casey from the Amscot, on what day & time, was she alone? If not, where was Caylee at these dates & times? What possessions did Casey take with her when she was picked up after she left the Amscot, where are those possessions, now? Did she attempt to retrieve the car from the Amscot, on what day & time, and what was wrong with the car that it couldn't be retrieved from the Amscot, and had to be towed? I have to understand this event to nail down why on God's green earth Casey did not get her car from Amscot?

I know I wouldn't leave my car to be towed without finding a way to get it back, or at least to a shop or somewhere to keep it until I could afford to fix it, and surely NOT at a tow lot that I would have to pay storage on. This event is puzzling to me, could someone help me out with what evidence there is in released interviews or other reliable sources to clarify this event?

Thanks in Advance!

I believe the whole idea for Casey to leave the car was so it could be stolen.It didn't even need to be out of gas. Casey just said that it was.I don't believe there is any documentation from the docudump so far that indicates that the tank was indeed empty.
AFAIK It was towed, not because there was anything wrong with it- but because it looked like an abandoned car.
If the car was stolen- she could point to the nanny stealing Caylee, and the car..and when the car was found with decomp in it, it could be blamed on the person that stole the car- they must have done something to Caylee too.

tx_Dot
01-24-2009, 08:57 AM
I have wondered if KC pulled into the parking lot with a very low tank of gas and just sat with the car running until it ran out of gas as part of her plan to ditch the smelly car. Perhaps her plan was to leave the car for a few days thinking the smell would go away and she could then go back for the car. Maybe she did go back only to discover the car had been towed. Kc could have been planning to work the missing car in with Caylee missing - the nanny took them both plan.

I did also notice in one jail visit that CA had a list of question she was asking KC. One of the questions asked by CA "Why didn't she go back to get the car?" was most likely read just as CA had written the question to remind herself to ask KC and the "she" was KC. Does anyone remember if KC answered that question?

Yep, CA did ask "why didn't SHE" (not you) pick up the car.......KC does not reply.

I think KC prolly told CA that 'zanny' abandoned the car (maybe during the 'chat' outside tonys apt. ??)

tx_Dot
01-24-2009, 09:04 AM
There seems to be a lot of confusion about the car.I can't seem to get a strait answer on it from anyone.

LOL....neither can I

We do know KC called 3 times about getting gas...6-28, 6-29-, & 6-30.

& on 6-30 KC goes to Amy's & then they go to target & buy a gas can.....

LE doesn't ask Amy what happened after they bought the gas can :confused:

reeseeva
01-24-2009, 09:16 AM
Isn't it strange that the "gas cans" have been mentioned so much in this case, & now, the gas cans make headlines with having Duct tape on one from the garage, most likely matching the duct tape from the remains?:eek:

This whole case is stranger than fiction!

It's Not the Nanny
01-24-2009, 09:47 AM
I don't think KC wanted her car stolen. What was she going to do without a car?? No means to buy a new one.

She was avoiding having to drive TonE to the airport in it at 6 am so she conveniently had it run out of gas the day before so she could drive his Jeep.

More curious to me, why Amscott?? Very visible corner. One would think she would have picked a more secluded location.

tx_Dot
01-24-2009, 10:00 AM
I don't think KC wanted her car stolen. What was she going to do without a car?? No means to buy a new one.

She was avoiding having to drive TonE to the airport in it at 6 am so she conveniently had it run out of gas the day before so she could drive his Jeep.

More curious to me, why Amscott?? Very visible corner. One would think she would have picked a more secluded location.

ITA.......& IIRC, a 'local' even said that this Amscott was prolly on CA route to/from work.....

The car was left on Fri. (27th) KC took Tony to the airport Mon (30th) then went to Amy's to get help for gas.

tx_Dot
01-24-2009, 10:03 AM
Isn't it strange that the "gas cans" have been mentioned so much in this case, & now, the gas cans make headlines with having Duct tape on one from the garage, most likely matching the duct tape from the remains?:eek:

This whole case is stranger than fiction!

LOL....'gas cans' could end up being the 'smoking gun'.......:)

Atlanta PI
01-24-2009, 10:12 AM
I believe the whole idea for Casey to leave the car was so it could be stolen.It didn't even need to be out of gas. Casey just said that it was.I don't believe there is any documentation from the docudump so far that indicates that the tank was indeed empty.
AFAIK It was towed, not because there was anything wrong with it- but because it looked like an abandoned car.
If the car was stolen- she could point to the nanny stealing Caylee, and the car..and when the car was found with decomp in it, it could be blamed on the person that stole the car- they must have done something to Caylee too.


In the latest doc dump there were tests to make sure the gas gauge was working. I believe they indicated the tank was on E at the start and then gas was added and the gauge moved to the appropriate level.

It's Not the Nanny
01-24-2009, 10:14 AM
ITA.......& IIRC, a 'local' even said that this Amscott was prolly on CA route to/from work.....

The car was left on Fri. (27th) KC took Tony to the airport Mon (30th) then went to Amy's to get help for gas.

Thanks for clearing up the dates. :)

reeseeva
01-24-2009, 10:30 AM
LOL....'gas cans' could end up being the 'smoking gun'.......:)

Exactly what I thought.............So much ado about running out of gas, stolen gas cans, texts about borrowing gas cans, buying new gas cans at Target, Whew!.....Smoking gun...gas cans, that would really be Karma!:rolleyes:

tx_Dot
01-24-2009, 10:30 AM
Thanks for clearing up the dates. :)

Not just me......many thanks to our WS'ers keeping & up-dating our "case calendars."

Kimmer
01-24-2009, 10:31 AM
George had to add gas to the car when he picked it up at Johnson's Towing, so when LE towed the car it would not have been completely out of gas, but that does not mean that when Johnson's towed it that it was not out of gas..I don't know if I believe that the car was out of gas when she abandoned it at Amscott just because she said it was does not mean it was..

I also believe that the reason she left her purse in the car was because she wanted it to get stolen, and then she could say that Caylee and herself were kidnapped by whomever and that she had no idea where Caylee was..I also feel that she was trying to get the guy in California to buy her a plane ticket to California and then when her car was found without her or Caylee and her purse inside it would look like something had happened to both of them..She would be in California and could start her Beautiful life..But her mom found Amy's phone number and therefore found her and that plan went to hell in a handbasket, so she needed to think quick and make up another lie so then the Nanny story came to life.

It will be very intresting at trial to see what the SA office has peiced together with all the eviedence they have (some I am certain we know nothing about).

tx_Dot
01-24-2009, 10:34 AM
Exactly what I thought.............So much ado about running out of gas, stolen gas cans, texts about borrowing gas cans, buying new gas cans at Target, Whew!.....Smoking gun...gas cans, that would really be Karma!:rolleyes:

Yep, & don't ya love it, that the gas cans & the duct tape might have "joined forces" ???.....& the trash bag might be on it's way.....:)

Where's Andre
01-24-2009, 10:54 AM
Yep, & don't ya love it, that the gas cans & the duct tape might have "joined forces" ???.....& the trash bag might be on it's way.....:)

With a Blackjack inside it.

tx_Dot
01-24-2009, 11:13 AM
With a Blackjack inside it.

Do you think there really was a blackjack ??

Seems like LE has had lots of time to verify this, yet we've seen no info/records of it......no texts to/from friends on strange number.

I think it's 'the best' she could think of, when pinned down for a nanny number.

BondJamesBond
04-05-2009, 10:04 PM
Months ago it was speculated that Casey abandoned the Pontiac @ Amscot 6/27 so she wouldn't be faced with taking Tony to the airport 6/30AM w/ the smell of decomp increasingly permeating her car...to further ensure she'd get the use of Tony's Jeep for the week.

Well...I bought it. I thought Casey had actually pulled something off that required a little planning & forethought.

Now...I've revisited the situation armed w/ a little more information...and I hafta conclude that Casey actually did run outta gas. :doh:

It requires a few working assumptions, but, here's how we get there...

On 6/23 Casey ran outta gas. We know exactly where AND, as a result of this incident from Tony's statement, we now know exactly what route Casey drove when she traveled between G&C's and Tony's. We know from Casey's pings the major trips she took, most likely in the Pontiac between 6/23 and 6/27. While Casey may have made a short trip or two from Tony's apt. to, say, Subway, for example, it doesn't appear she ventured too far...so, we've got decent information to work from here too.


6/23 after filling up, Casey & Tony returned to his apt. (Tony's statement)
6/24 Casey returned to G&C's (for the now famous scene) for 1 roundtrip (pings support)
6/25 Casey hung @ Tony's (pings)
6/26 Casey hung @ Tony's (pings)
6/27 Casey returned to G&C's and almost made it back to Tony's, calling for help @ 11:47AM. (pings support)


The exact total mileage of these trips is 47.2 miles.

From G&C's interview on Greta (http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=2963763&referralPlaylistId=search|cindy%20anthony) we know the size of the two gas cans Casey used were a 2.5gallon and a 1.25 gallon (the volumes aren't listed on the police report). We prolly don't want to assume these were 100% full, and we can play with this a little to see the effect later.

I found 5 different models of the 1998 Pontiac Sunfire w/ varying specs, however, the estimate mpg for all ranged +/- 1 mpg for city & highway stats. We'll use 20mpg as the most-common cited city mileage.

Finally, I found at least one reference for a similarly sized engine that indicated it burned 0.18 gallons/hr @ idle. This isn't a perfect reference, but, is actually a little conservative.

From the pings we can see that Casey approached Amscot, on the move, @ 11:40AM. She placed her distress call to Tony @ 11:47AM. We can quickly conclude that 7 minutes was not sufficient time to run out any significant volume of gas whatsoever...@ a rate even 2x the 0.18gallon/hr listed above.

...so how does that match up w/ what we know about the rest of the scene.

If we just do the straight math and not make any allowances for Casey running the AC, driving heavy footed as she likely sped away outta G&C's driveway 6/24, etc....just straight 20mpg...for 47.2 miles she would've consumed 2.4 gallons

If the 2 gas cans had been a collective 63% full... (2.5 + 1.25) = 3.75 * 0.63 = 2.4 gallons => Casey would have run outta gas precisely @ Amscot.

If the cans had been, say, 75% full...@ 20mpg...Casey would've had 0.5 gallons left in the tank @ Amscot and would have had to idle for 2.5 hours to run the tank empty. One can arrive at similar combinations of 'empty' by simply decreasing the mpg & increasing the volume that one assumes was in the gas cans of course (e.g. 85% full cans and 15mpg also = empty precisely @ Amscot).

So....now...thinking about the consequences of not running out @ Amscot I'm thinking Casey woulda just begged off 6/30AM and told Tony she was "on Empty" if he'd asked her to take him to the airport...had she made it all the way to Tony's 6/27.

Lexiintoronto
04-07-2009, 02:49 AM
I'm sure that this has been brought up before, but looking at the items retrieved from KC's car, they seem to be all recyclables. Mostly paper, plastic and aluminum. It's as if a recycling container has been emptied out in her trunk. Why? Whose items are they.? If it was someone's recycling, they might recognize it just from the combination of items.

And, knowing that she would soon be found out, why didn't she clean out the car?

Or did she clean the car, and dump some reclycling in the trunk to make it look as if she hadn't made an effort to cover anything up?

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html

Ripley007
04-07-2009, 03:30 AM
Who was it that pushed the car into the Amscot parking lot, on what day & time, was there anyone other than Casey in the car at the time?
Who picked up Casey from the Amscot, on what day & time, was she alone? If not, where was Caylee at these dates & times? What possessions did Casey take with her when she was picked up after she left the Amscot, where are those possessions, now? Did she attempt to retrieve the car from the Amscot, on what day & time, and what was wrong with the car that it couldn't be retrieved from the Amscot, and had to be towed? I have to understand this event to nail down why on God's green earth Casey did not get her car from Amscot?

I know I wouldn't leave my car to be towed without finding a way to get it back, or at least to a shop or somewhere to keep it until I could afford to fix it, and surely NOT at a tow lot that I would have to pay storage on. This event is puzzling to me, could someone help me out with what evidence there is in released interviews or other reliable sources to clarify this event?

Thanks in Advance!

1.)And WHERE are the Amscot parking lot survelince tapes????

2.)DID KC ASSUME the car would be stolen before towed?

3.Was the car left locked or unlocked? Were the keys left in the ingnition or not?

(I only want to hear these questions answered by the tow people-not the A's since I DON'T believe the A's)

Ripley007
04-07-2009, 04:15 AM
The gargabe bag left in the trunk came from TonE's apartment. WHY??? Tone's apt. complex had dumpsters so what reason would KC have for removing a garbage bag from TonE's apt. and putting it in her car trunk? Illogical. If she simply wanted to dump garbage in her trunk to cover up the human decomp smell, then why not add a garbage bag with rotting meat/food in it? Or a Full pizza box vs. an empty one? Makes NO sense whatsoever!

I'm sure that this has been brought up before, but looking at the items retrieved from KC's car, they seem to be all recyclables. Mostly paper, plastic and aluminum. It's as if a recycling container has been emptied out in her trunk. Why? Whose items are they.? If it was someone's recycling, they might recognize it just from the combination of items.

And, knowing that she would soon be found out, why didn't she clean out the car?

Or did she clean the car, and dump some reclycling in the trunk to make it look as if she hadn't made an effort to cover anything up?

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html

Rumpole
04-07-2009, 04:34 AM
The gargabe bag left in the trunk came from TonE's apartment. WHY??? Tone's apt. complex had dumpsters so what reason would KC have for removing a garbage bag from TonE's apt. and putting it in her car trunk? Illogical. If she simply wanted to dump garbage in her trunk to cover up the human decomp smell, then why not add a garbage bag with rotting meat/food in it? Or a Full pizza box vs. an empty one? Makes NO sense whatsoever!



She put Tony's kitchen garbage bag in the trunk because that is what she had?

No doubt somewhat smelly as all kitchen garbage is.

She did not have the option to design and manufacture a designer ensemble of garbage with just the right piquancy?
(Soupcon of meat, preferably 2 days old, plus 2 week old vegetables)

She needed (then and there) the smelliest thing available - Voila! the smelly old garbage from the kitchen bin!

Ripley007
04-07-2009, 05:05 AM
She put Tony's kitchen garbage bag in the trunk because that is what she had?

No doubt somewhat smelly as all kitchen garbage is.

She did not have the option to design and manufacture a designer ensemble of garbage with just the right piquancy?
(Soupcon of meat, preferably 2 days old, plus 2 week old vegetables)

She needed (then and there) the smelliest thing available - Voila! the smelly old garbage from the kitchen bin!

Designer garbage! Too funny...And your right, I would imagine especially coming from a bachor pad. How many guys clean the inside of their kitchen bin? (which no doubt is stinky and sticky from leaks).

PS. Wrong about the posting time but "X" marks the spot.;)

JWG
04-07-2009, 08:48 AM
1.)And WHERE are the Amscot parking lot survelince tapes????

The police tried to get them but because more than two weeks had transpired they had already been taped over.


2.)DID KC ASSUME the car would be stolen before towed?

No, she returned on June 30 late in the afternoon with a newly-purchased gas can bought at Target with Amy's credit card (Amy was with her and made the purchase for the mooch), but by the time she turned the corner where the Amscot is located, the car had already been towed.


3.Was the car left locked or unlocked? Were the keys left in the ingnition or not?

Locked, and KC had her keys.

JWG
04-07-2009, 08:53 AM
She put Tony's kitchen garbage bag in the trunk because that is what she had?

No doubt somewhat smelly as all kitchen garbage is.

She did not have the option to design and manufacture a designer ensemble of garbage with just the right piquancy?
(Soupcon of meat, preferably 2 days old, plus 2 week old vegetables)

She needed (then and there) the smelliest thing available - Voila! the smelly old garbage from the kitchen bin!

LOL - I had never considered the idea that she was going to use the garbage as an excuse for the smell. I always thought she used the garbage as an excuse to go out to the car to deal with the trunk contents. Here, let me take that out for you. However, the smell-covering scenario is the simplest and most plausible.

Clock's Tickin
04-07-2009, 09:09 AM
just when I thought it couldn't get any worse... it does.
Who out there still believes Caylee may have been in the trunk when George picks it up from impound, meaning at least he, and maybe Cindy, and maybe Lee, were in on the coverup???

IIRC GA and the tow yard guy actually opened the trunk together at the impound and tossed the yucky garbage bag over the fence (it was later retrieved by LE). So Caylee was disposed of BEFORE the car was towed.
Also...the tow people DID admit to a stench coming from the car early on but saw nothing through the windows and had no key. They do not enter the cars until due process has been followed (ie the certified letter and x # of days pass). I get the feeling that a lot of "abandoned cars" are stinky.

debs
04-07-2009, 09:24 AM
The police tried to get them but because more than two weeks had transpired they had already been taped over.



No, she returned on June 30 late in the afternoon with a newly-purchased gas can bought at Target with Amy's credit card (Amy was with her and made the purchase for the mooch), but by the time she turned the corner where the Amscot is located, the car had already been towed.



Locked, and KC had her keys.

So we know at least two different stories for the car at Amscot: She told TonE that George was going to take care of it, and Amy got another version of running out of gas. Yeah, I like to talk of the obvious. Sometimes, in the world of forms and shadows....

ibyoungr
04-07-2009, 09:41 AM
Tony L's audio interview contains more information about the trash. He states that the dumpsters are at the front of the complex. The guys in the apartment often put the trash in the trunks of their car and drove it up to the dumpster.

Rumpole
04-07-2009, 03:46 PM
LOL - I had never considered the idea that she was going to use the garbage as an excuse for the smell. I always thought she used the garbage as an excuse to go out to the car to deal with the trunk contents. Here, let me take that out for you. However, the smell-covering scenario is the simplest and most plausible.
She may have also wanted that excuse to check the pontiac boot, but by then I think it contained a dead Caylee and the smell was a problem, so I have always thought the bag of garbage was to explain/cover the smell. Similarly I think KC chose to park close to a smelly dumpster for the same reason. The calcs by BJB, and the fact that KC tried to organise some gas for her car, indicate she did run out of gas, but I think she still made it, or got pushed to park near the dumpster as a choice.

cocoamom
04-07-2009, 08:36 PM
Months ago it was speculated that Casey abandoned the Pontiac @ Amscot 6/27 so she wouldn't be faced with taking Tony to the airport 6/30AM w/ the smell of decomp increasingly permeating her car...to further ensure she'd get the use of Tony's Jeep for the week.

Well...I bought it. I thought Casey had actually pulled something off that required a little planning & forethought.

Now...I've revisited the situation armed w/ a little more information...and I hafta conclude that Casey actually did run outta gas. :doh:

It requires a few working assumptions, but, here's how we get there...

On 6/23 Casey ran outta gas. We know exactly where AND, as a result of this incident from Tony's statement, we now know exactly what route Casey drove when she traveled between G&C's and Tony's. We know from Casey's pings the major trips she took, most likely in the Pontiac between 6/23 and 6/27. While Casey may have made a short trip or two from Tony's apt. to, say, Subway, for example, it doesn't appear she ventured too far...so, we've got decent information to work from here too.


6/23 after filling up, Casey & Tony returned to his apt. (Tony's statement)
6/24 Casey returned to G&C's (for the now famous scene) for 1 roundtrip (pings support)
6/25 Casey hung @ Tony's (pings)
6/26 Casey hung @ Tony's (pings)
6/27 Casey returned to G&C's and almost made it back to Tony's, calling for help @ 11:47AM. (pings support)


The exact total mileage of these trips is 47.2 miles.From G&C's interview on Greta (http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=2963763&referralPlaylistId=search%7Ccindy%20anthony) we know the size of the two gas cans Casey used were a 2.5gallon and a 1.25 gallon (the volumes aren't listed on the police report). We prolly don't want to assume these were 100% full, and we can play with this a little to see the effect later.

I found 5 different models of the 1998 Pontiac Sunfire w/ varying specs, however, the estimate mpg for all ranged +/- 1 mpg for city & highway stats. We'll use 20mpg as the most-common cited city mileage.

Finally, I found at least one reference for a similarly sized engine that indicated it burned 0.18 gallons/hr @ idle. This isn't a perfect reference, but, is actually a little conservative.

From the pings we can see that Casey approached Amscot, on the move, @ 11:40AM. She placed her distress call to Tony @ 11:47AM. We can quickly conclude that 7 minutes was not sufficient time to run out any significant volume of gas whatsoever...@ a rate even 2x the 0.18gallon/hr listed above.

...so how does that match up w/ what we know about the rest of the scene.

If we just do the straight math and not make any allowances for Casey running the AC, driving heavy footed as she likely sped away outta G&C's driveway 6/24, etc....just straight 20mpg...for 47.2 miles she would've consumed 2.4 gallons

If the 2 gas cans had been a collective 63% full... (2.5 + 1.25) = 3.75 * 0.63 = 2.4 gallons => Casey would have run outta gas precisely @ Amscot.

If the cans had been, say, 75% full...@ 20mpg...Casey would've had 0.5 gallons left in the tank @ Amscot and would have had to idle for 2.5 hours to run the tank empty. One can arrive at similar combinations of 'empty' by simply decreasing the mpg & increasing the volume that one assumes was in the gas cans of course (e.g. 85% full cans and 15mpg also = empty precisely @ Amscot).

So....now...thinking about the consequences of not running out @ Amscot I'm thinking Casey woulda just begged off 6/30AM and told Tony she was "on Empty" if he'd asked her to take him to the airport...had she made it all the way to Tony's 6/27.

BJB - didn't she say some guys helped her push it into the parking lot? If she really did run out and just maybe told the TRUTH (LOL) bout the "pushers", who and where are they? Any speculation that they may be on the video, already found by LE and it's just quiet?

The World According
04-08-2009, 02:54 PM
LOL - I had never considered the idea that she was going to use the garbage as an excuse for the smell. I always thought she used the garbage as an excuse to go out to the car to deal with the trunk contents. Here, let me take that out for you. However, the smell-covering scenario is the simplest and most plausible.
Hello. I am new on here. I love, love your posts. That sentence at the bottom always is something Casey's grandmother Shirley said to the police, right? It is so much more damning coming from her. I didn't catch that till I read her interview. Wow.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 03:16 PM
IMO CA's defense team is trying to plant reasonable doubt in the minds of the public for certain evidence in the case.

However, there is certain evidence JB cannot explain away.

Currently for me, the strongest evidence the state has against CA is the car.

Think about it.

Why dump a car?

Logic would have it that if your car runs out of gas, you get gas and fill up the gas tank. Problem solved. But, why dump your car?

She leaves her car at Amscot and never goes to retrieve it why?

There were several people she could get to help her fill the tank with gas so that she can get it home. She did indeed ask Amy to help her in a text message on June 27th and she called Jessie and Ricardo on that day or the following day.

They were not available then but, she could have enlisted their help when they were available. And what about her brother Lee? IMO he would have helped her.

After she got the checks from Amy couldn't she have gone and gotten the car then? She could have gone to Amscot found out if the car was still there. If it was ttowed find out where was it towed to. Go write a bad check at the bank and get the car back.

Why dump a car?

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Sanchez,%20Catherine0724.pdf

http://cayleeanthony.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/amscot-dumpster.jpg

ecs5298
05-06-2009, 03:28 PM
IMO CA's defense team is trying to plant reasonable doubt in the minds of the public for certain evidence in the case.

However, there is certain evidence JB cannot explain away.

Currently for me, the strongest evidence the state has against CA is the car.

Think about it.

Why dump a car?

Logic would have it that if your car runs out of gas, you get gas and fill up the gas tank. Problem solved. But, why dump your car?

She leaves her car at Amscot and never goes to retrieve it why?

There were several people she could get to help her fill the tank with gas so that she can get it home. She did indeed ask Amy to help her in a text message on June 27th and she called Jessie and Ricardo on that day or the following day.

They were not available then but, she could have enlisted their help when they were available. And what about her brother Lee? IMO he would have helped her.

After she got the checks from Amy couldn't she have gone and gotten the car then? She could have gone to Amscot found out if the car was still there. If it was towed find out where was it towed to. Go write a bad check at the bank and get the car back.

Why dump a car?

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Sanchez,%20Catherine0724.pdf

http://cayleeanthony.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/amscot-dumpster.jpg


Because in her wee little mind she thought that someone would steal it and it would be gone forever. Unfortunately (for her) it didn't work out that way.

She obviously didn't think it through very well. But then again, that's KC.

JTennisonFL
05-06-2009, 03:32 PM
IMO CA's defense team is trying to plant reasonable doubt in the minds of the public for certain evidence in the case.

However, there is certain evidence JB cannot explain away.

Currently for me, the strongest evidence the state has against CA is the car.

Think about it.

Why dump a car?

Logic would have it that if your car runs out of gas, you get gas and fill up the gas tank. Problem solved. But, why dump your car?

She leaves her car at Amscot and never goes to retrieve it why?

There were several people she could get to help her fill the tank with gas so that she can get it home. She did indeed ask Amy to help her in a text message on June 27th and she called Jessie and Ricardo on that day or the following day.

They were not available then but, she could have enlisted their help when they were available. And what about her brother Lee? IMO he would have helped her.

After she got the checks from Amy couldn't she have gone and gotten the car then? She could have gone to Amscot found out if the car was still there. If it was ttowed find out where was it towed to. Go write a bad check at the bank and get the car back.

Why dump a car?

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Sanchez,%20Catherine0724.pdf

http://cayleeanthony.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/amscot-dumpster.jpg

How long was KC's car sitting at Amscot?

Ms.Heather
05-06-2009, 03:44 PM
I've said the same thing. Not only did she leave the car she left her purse in it. I think she was hoping it would get stolen.

The night she got rid of the car at Amscot, she was texting Amy telling her she got rid of the dead animal smell that was plastered to her car. Thats very very telling to me.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 03:45 PM
How long was KC's car sitting at Amscot?
I think it was towed on July 30. It was left there on June 27 according to Casey's text message to Amy concerning running out of gas.

The person who called the towing company said she could not tell if the car smelled because it was parked next to a dumpster.

I'm sure it was hot [it was July in Florida]. What a perfect place to leave a smelly car. Next to a dumpster on a hot Florida day.

zoey
05-06-2009, 03:48 PM
I think it was towed on July 30. It was left there on June 27 according to Casey's text message to Amy concerning running out of gas.

The person who called the towing company said she could not tell if the car smelled because it was parked next to a dumpster.

I'm sure it was hot [it was July in Florida]. What a perfect place to leave a smelly car. Next to a dumpster on a hot Florida day.

oddly the car was never called in either as missing....what she can't explain away-----31 days.....

Rumpole
05-06-2009, 03:50 PM
KC didn't dump the car?

She went to some trouble to get gas and retrieve it.

BeanE
05-06-2009, 04:01 PM
There was some major sleuthing on this, and the results are in the stickies analysis forum. I'm sorry I don't remember the name of the thread. If you PM BondJamesBond or JWG I think they could point you to it.

In a nutshell, Tony was leaving to go out of town and wanted KC to drive him to the airport. He did not want her to use his car while he was gone, so she would have had to drive him in her car... with Caylee's body and the associated smell in the trunk.

KC couldn't let that happen. She needed an excuse not to drive Tony in her car. So she 'ran out of gas' at the Amscot and further built the story that the car wasn't functioning, George was taking it to get repaired, etc.

Many more details are available in that thread. It's a fine piece of sleuthing.

akashana
05-06-2009, 04:02 PM
I've often wondered why she didn't take it somewhere and set it afire to destroy the decomp and other evidence. If I were a murderer, I would want to destroy any and everything that could tie me to the crime. But KC wan't big on long range planning obviously.

brownflower
05-06-2009, 04:05 PM
oddly the car was never called in either as missing....what she can't explain away-----31 days.....
True that. Perhaps she was waiting to see what happened to the car. Perhaps she was waiting for her mother or father to contact her and tell her the car was missing.

Like Ms. Heather said, she left her purse in the car hoping someone would steal it. Then those people could be prime suspects as well. Her story could have been completely different then.

The following is MOO of what could have been Casey's story if the car was stolen:

Casey: "I was at the park and some guy who told me his name was Zaniedo C. Gonzalez grabbed Caylee, grabbed my purse and stole my car. Before he drove off he told me that he would return my child to me at the same spot after 55 days if I passed his tests of bravery. His demands were: first, I had to steal checks from my best friend and deplete her bank account. Second, I had to go out and party like nothing happend. He also told me if I contacted the police for any reason, my family and child would be harmed. If I did what he told me to do, I would learn a valuable lesson.":banghead:

But seriously folks, is there anything in any of the transcripts where she states why she never went back for her car?

brownflower
05-06-2009, 04:10 PM
There was some major sleuthing on this, and the results are in the stickies analysis forum. I'm sorry I don't remember the name of the thread. If you PM BondJamesBond or JWG I think they could point you to it.

In a nutshell, Tony was leaving to go out of town and wanted KC to drive him to the airport. He did not want her to use his car while he was gone, so she would have had to drive him in her car... with Caylee's body and the associated smell in the trunk.

KC couldn't let that happen. She needed an excuse not to drive Tony in her car. So she 'ran out of gas' at the Amscot and further built the story that the car wasn't functioning, George was taking it to get repaired, etc.

Many more details are available in that thread. It's a fine piece of sleuthing.


Thank you for the info. Still the car was dumped. She never went to retrieve it. She never called George to let him know the car was having "mechanical problems"

And why didn't she get the car detailed? IMO she had plenty of money available when she got a hold of Amy's checks.

AmyMB
05-06-2009, 04:16 PM
Long time lurker..First time I felt I could contribute a good decent thought. The jailhouse interview it is asked by CA"why didn't she come back for the car?" Her reply was "I don't know mom". Then it is left alone. She IMO is telling them that she abandoned that car because Z told her to,it was part of the script. She had to lie to everyone else because she was in fear for their lives.,or whatever she tells them. Yeah? May be I am way off...just had to jump in somewhere and thought this may be good. Of course we all get it, but this may be what they are using.

zoey
05-06-2009, 04:16 PM
There was some major sleuthing on this, and the results are in the stickies analysis forum. I'm sorry I don't remember the name of the thread. If you PM BondJamesBond or JWG I think they could point you to it.

In a nutshell, Tony was leaving to go out of town and wanted KC to drive him to the airport. He did not want her to use his car while he was gone, so she would have had to drive him in her car... with Caylee's body and the associated smell in the trunk.

KC couldn't let that happen. She needed an excuse not to drive Tony in her car. So she 'ran out of gas' at the Amscot and further built the story that the car wasn't functioning, George was taking it to get repaired, etc.

Many more details are available in that thread. It's a fine piece of sleuthing.

That really makes some sense there in ??????? :banghead::hand: thing.....I've often wondered why and how she obtained the keys to tonE's car when he didn't want her driving it around.....NOW IT MAKES SOME SENSE!!!! thanks.....

brownflower
05-06-2009, 04:26 PM
Long time lurker..First time I felt I could contribute a good decent thought. The jailhouse interview it is asked by CA"why didn't she come back for the car?" Her reply was "I don't know mom". Then it is left alone. She IMO is telling them that she abandoned that car because Z told her to,it was part of the script. She had to lie to everyone else because she was in fear for their lives.,or whatever she tells them. Yeah? May be I am way off...just had to jump in somewhere and thought this may be good. Of course we all get it, but this may be what they are using.
Thanks for contributing! She just said "I don't know?" When she mentioned that she conducted her own search for Z by going to nightclubs that Z frequented she never mentioned the car. She didn't get that in the records either.

Bottom line, IMO she was hoping someone would steal that car. If someone stole the car it would be highly unlikely that they would report to the police, "uh 911, I just stole this car and there's something wrong with it. Uh huh, it smells like there's been a dead body in the trunk."

steadychick
05-06-2009, 04:34 PM
There was some major sleuthing on this, and the results are in the stickies analysis forum. I'm sorry I don't remember the name of the thread. If you PM BondJamesBond or JWG I think they could point you to it.

In a nutshell, Tony was leaving to go out of town and wanted KC to drive him to the airport. He did not want her to use his car while he was gone, so she would have had to drive him in her car... with Caylee's body and the associated smell in the trunk.

KC couldn't let that happen. She needed an excuse not to drive Tony in her car. So she 'ran out of gas' at the Amscot and further built the story that the car wasn't functioning, George was taking it to get repaired, etc.

Many more details are available in that thread. It's a fine piece of sleuthing.

Oh My, I never thought about it this way. She certainly couldn't have kept that smelly car around for Tony to get a whiff of. This explains the pings that show her driving around and around (trying to run out of gas?) before calling Tony to pick her up. But why even go through the motions of trying to locate a gas can, unless she was hoping the car would be gone when she went to pick it up. And I'd forgotten that she lied about the gas indicator being broken -- didn't LE check that out and found that it worked just fine?

That smell must have really thrown a monkey wrench in her plans. What was she planning to do with no car -- how was she going to get to "work"? I know, I know, KC doesn't plan.

Rumpole
05-06-2009, 04:36 PM
Thanks for contributing! She just said "I don't know?" When she mentioned that she conducted her own search for Z by going to nightclubs that Z frequented she never mentioned the car. She didn't get that in the records either.

Bottom line, IMO she was hoping someone would steal that car. If someone stole the car it would be highly unlikely that they would report to the police, "uh 911, I just stole this car and there's something wrong with it. Uh huh, it smells like there's been a dead body in the trunk."

The facts show that KC did not abandon the car. She set about talking Amy into buying a gas can (described in latest documents). Amy and KC actually bought the can on 30th July but were just too late to retrieve the car before it was towed from Amscot. KC DID NOT abandon the car because she tried to retrieve it?

PattyCake
05-06-2009, 04:40 PM
Long time lurker..First time I felt I could contribute a good decent thought. The jailhouse interview it is asked by CA"why didn't she come back for the car?" Her reply was "I don't know mom". Then it is left alone. She IMO is telling them that she abandoned that car because Z told her to,it was part of the script. She had to lie to everyone else because she was in fear for their lives.,or whatever she tells them. Yeah? May be I am way off...just had to jump in somewhere and thought this may be good. Of course we all get it, but this may be what they are using.

Welcome long time lurker. I was a very long lurker before I felt I could contribute. Now no one can shut me up. lol :)

Interesting thought AmyMB - you should post more.