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christine2448
07-25-2008, 08:55 PM
Please continue GENERAL discussions here. Look around Nancy has her own forum (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=165), there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.


Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.


Newbies.....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/WELCOMETOWSBLUE.gif

I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

I advise everyone to read the RULES of WS, Long (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66869)and Short Version (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66872).

Bob&Bob
07-25-2008, 09:06 PM
Pedicures
http://art2mis.blogspot.com/2006/09/rossi-pasta.html


"The only way we beat the heat here in NC is by running at 6:00 am." (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=31717822&postID=115439707438489110)

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=31717822&postID=115439707438489110

pamlet
07-25-2008, 09:15 PM
Pedicures
http://art2mis.blogspot.com/2006/09/rossi-pasta.html


"The only way we beat the heat here in NC is by running at 6:00 am." (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=31717822&postID=115439707438489110)

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=31717822&postID=115439707438489110


Now THAT is an interesting blog... gives you a little peek into the social life around there huh?

carolinalady
07-25-2008, 09:18 PM
Just wanted to bring this to the new thread:



Originally Posted by LillyRush
The beach trip included Mike and Clea Morwick and their children, along with Nancy and her kids. The only person who wasn't there was Brad.

In the affidavits submitted by Nancy's parents, Clea Morwick (Mike's wife) has her own separate affidavit where she discusses the very same beach trip and how she thought it was odd too that Brad didn't even try to be there for the weekend part of the trip.

edited to add that Clea Morwick's affidavit is the 3rd one, right after Jessica Adams and her husband.
Read this one: http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local...y,_friends.pdf

Michael Morwick's is on page 24, line #8. It says Brad & Clea were not there.

Bob&Bob
07-25-2008, 09:22 PM
Now THAT is an interesting blog... gives you a little peek into the social life around there huh?


I thought it was very interesting reading.

I have an affinity for mint, yogurt and grape leaves.

LillyRush
07-25-2008, 09:23 PM
Carolina Lady, I see where they (Mike Morwick and NC, w/o either spouse) went on one out of the many family beach trips together. I believe this is the one that Clea Morwick cites when she discusses how Nancy came back to the house all messed up and the bugs. That seems to fit the timeframe for that trip. So, it doesn't seem like Mike's wife was unaware of it.

All the others that they describe seem to be with them all together, with Brad being the only person notably absent. Clea also mentions that they, all of them minus Brad again, were supposed to go on vacation again during the 1st week of August.

It's interesting that Mike mentions that in his opinion Brad may have been uncomfortable around he and his wife Clea due to their knowledge of his affair. Interesting in that Jessica Adams says practically the opposite and that she felt Nancy was uncomfortable around the Morwicks. That's a whole lot of contradictory wierdness and uncomfortableness going around there.

mom2boys
07-25-2008, 09:26 PM
I thought it was very interesting reading.


Yes very interesting. Check this out...it's not hard to figurre out who Mr. B and Mrs. N is

Sunday, November 12, 2006
Iron Man
Congratulations to Mr. B! Last week, he competed in his first Iron Man triathlon, and finished in under 13 hours, which is an excellent time. Last night, Ms. N threw a party to celebrate his achievement, and to celebrate that she'll get a little bit more hub-time for a while. Except that he's already signed up to do two more of these crazy races in the next 12 months. And he has a full-time job and is getting his MBA at night school and has two small daughters. I thought I was tired...obviously I'm just not doing enough.

carolinalady
07-25-2008, 09:28 PM
Carolina Lady, I see where they (Mike Morwick and NC, w/o either spouse) went on one out of the many family beach trips together. I believe this is the one that Clea Morwick cites when she discusses how Nancy came back to the house all messed up and the bugs. That seems to fit the timeframe for that trip. So, it doesn't seem like Mike's wife was unaware of it.

All the others that they describe seem to be with them all together, with Brad being the only person notably absent. Clea also mentions that they, all of them minus Brad again, were supposed to go on vacation again during the 1st week of August.

It's interesting that Mike mentions that in his opinion Brad may have been uncomfortable around he and his wife Clea due to their knowledge of his affair. Interesting in that Jessica Adams says practically the opposite and that she felt Nancy was uncomfortable around the Morwicks. That's a whole lot of contradictory wierdness and uncomfortableness going around there.

Nancy was with the girls and her family in Hilton Head (I think) and came home to the bugs and filth.

Brad did have an answer to why he did not go on the beach trip w/ the Morwicks in his rebuttal. He stated that he couldn't get off work (again, if he put in a request someone should be able to confirm his request). He also said that they had a previously scheduled vacation for the week immediately following the time w/ the Morwicks (again, should be verifiable).

I do find the discrepancies between all the affidavits very interesting (& confusing!!!).

carolinalady
07-25-2008, 09:33 PM
Yes very interesting. Check this out...it's not hard to figurre out who Mr. B and Mrs. N is

Sunday, November 12, 2006
Iron Man
Congratulations to Mr. B! Last week, he competed in his first Iron Man triathlon, and finished in under 13 hours, which is an excellent time. Last night, Ms. N threw a party to celebrate his achievement, and to celebrate that she'll get a little bit more hub-time for a while. Except that he's already signed up to do two more of these crazy races in the next 12 months. And he has a full-time job and is getting his MBA at night school and has two small daughters. I thought I was tired...obviously I'm just not doing enough.

Very interesting indeed!

luckyme
07-25-2008, 09:38 PM
wow! Who her has a change of heart about the husband? I know i do and want to see evidence!! jmo

christine2448
07-25-2008, 09:46 PM
know i do and want to see evidence!! jmo


From yer post to Gods ears!

Jaydee0158
07-25-2008, 09:53 PM
I have lots of reading to catch up on... still have to read half of thread 10 before moving on to this one but I wanted to comment then go back and try to catch up. Like the rest of you, I too have an opinion! Boy are the opinions strong around here!

Iíve been an on-again, off-again lurker for about three years since the Natalee Holloway case. I came back here by way of Eyes when NC was found.

I want to preface my comments by saying I am not convinced that BC is the perp. If he is, IMO this happened by accident from an argument that got way out of control and crossed the lineÖ. Not premeditated. There are many things about this case that just donít seem right. So much of what is being said is hearsay and secondhand information.

Re the money issues, based upon the things said in the media and in the affidavits, NC sounds like a spoiled, overindulged SAHM that was rebelling when reigned in on her inability to control impulsive spending habits. She got $300 a week (or say BC says), she complained enough that friends AND her parents were giving her money, she sold her personal belongs, and she did odd jobs painting. IMO, NC manipulated the truth to her advantage. I have known many people, some very near and dear, who were the same. IMO the affidavits by friends served only to paint a bad picture of NC. Imagine if you will that you are not from an affluent family and are reading those affidavits. Lots of repetitive whining and mudslinging going on, and almost all of it is based upon hearsay. So little of it is firsthand knowledge that I question the actually witnessed incidents.

BC certainly sounded like a control freak, but what husband that is the sole supporter isnít to some extent? I would have initiated some of the same steps had I realized I was in a state of financial stress. Actually, I did now that I think of it!

BC was an introvert; NC loved being the center of attention. Opposites attract; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnít.

What makes no sense to me it that if things were as bad as NC wanted her friends and parents to believe, why stick around? She is an educated woman. She was intelligent by all indications. She has a father that is in the business to help in such cases. Why did she stay there? To get the BMW X5, $2100 a month in CS, $50,000 lump sum, alimony, and the residual of the 401K after all else was paid off? This strikes me as a bit odd. Maybe it wasnít as bad as described. But regardless, NC apparently felt trapped in a marriage to someone she did not want to be married to. But was she trapped by him or by selfish desires?

It will be interesting to see the evidence, if and when it comes to the surface for MSM to print. It will also be interesting to see how much of BCís rebuttal can be verified in a positive manner. Just too little that is truly know; very little confirmed fact to base judgment upon. Question Ė I think I read somewhere that everyone in NCís life will be ruled out as a POI Ė does that include the twin and BIL, mom and dad, other sis and BIL? Just curious.

This is just one more in a string of sad, sad cases. It is truly so sad that those two little girls have lost a mom who by all appearance adored them. Now they also stand to lose any resemblance of a relationship with their dad. So such. Such a shame. Why canít adults get along and play fair?

luckyme
07-25-2008, 09:59 PM
I have lots of reading to catch up on... still have to read half of thread 10 before moving on to this one but I wanted to comment then go back and try to catch up. Like the rest of you, I too have an opinion! Boy are the opinions strong around here!

Iíve been an on-again, off-again lurker for about three years since the Natalee Holloway case. I came back here by way of Eyes when NC was found.

I want to preface my comments by saying I am not convinced that BC is the perp. If he is, IMO this happened by accident from an argument that got way out of control and crossed the lineÖ. Not premeditated. There are many things about this case that just donít seem right. So much of what is being said is hearsay and secondhand information.

Re the money issues, based upon the things said in the media and in the affidavits, NC sounds like a spoiled, overindulged SAHM that was rebelling when reigned in on her inability to control impulsive spending habits. She got $300 a week (or say BC says), she complained enough that friends AND her parents were giving her money, she sold her personal belongs, and she did odd jobs painting. IMO, NC manipulated the truth to her advantage. I have known many people, some very near and dear, who were the same. IMO the affidavits by friends served only to paint a bad picture of NC. Imagine if you will that you are not from an affluent family and are reading those affidavits. Lots of repetitive whining and mudslinging going on, and almost all of it is based upon hearsay. So little of it is firsthand knowledge that I question the actually witnessed incidents.

BC certainly sounded like a control freak, but what husband that is the sole supporter isnít to some extent? I would have initiated some of the same steps had I realized I was in a state of financial stress. Actually, I did now that I think of it!

BC was an introvert; NC loved being the center of attention. Opposites attract; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnít.

What makes no sense to me it that if things were as bad as NC wanted her friends and parents to believe, why stick around? She is an educated woman. She was intelligent by all indications. She has a father that is in the business to help in such cases. Why did she stay there? To get the BMW X5, $2100 a month in CS, $50,000 lump sum, alimony, and the residual of the 401K after all else was paid off? This strikes me as a bit odd. Maybe it wasnít as bad as described. But regardless, NC apparently felt trapped in a marriage to someone she did not want to be married to. But was she trapped by him or by selfish desires?

It will be interesting to see the evidence, if and when it comes to the surface for MSM to print. It will also be interesting to see how much of BCís rebuttal can be verified in a positive manner. Just too little that is truly know; very little confirmed fact to base judgment upon. Question Ė I think I read somewhere that everyone in NCís life will be ruled out as a POI Ė does that include the twin and BIL, mom and dad, other sis and BIL? Just curious.

This is just one more in a string of sad, sad cases. It is truly so sad that those two little girls have lost a mom who by all appearance adored them. Now they also stand to lose any resemblance of a relationship with their dad. So such. Such a shame. Why canít adults get along and play fair?

Thats my opinion! Im still not conviced he is the murder though! I was one of the guilties! Im not so sure now! JMO:confused:

SleuthyGal
07-25-2008, 10:04 PM
Yes, how IRONIC that this "spoiled, spendthrift, SAHM, who was just in it for the lump sum, the BMW, the $2100/month" happened in that coinky-dink way to be murdered just when her separation was really getting legs.

Well the way you describe her out-of-control spending and personality and narcissistic tendencies to be 'the center of attention,' she absolutely deserved this, eh?

Well, let THAT be a lesson to all those OTHER "spendthrift, out-of-control wives who don't know their place." Shape up or find yourself dead by that random thug/stranger who apparently hates spoiled wives and follows them around to make sure justice is doled out on behalf of henpecked husbands everywhere. Randomly of course. Not instigated by anyone or anything but their own self-centered ways.

@@

fran
07-25-2008, 10:05 PM
I think we should ask Nancy if she was embellishing and IF her husband was really as bad as she told everyone.

Oh, wait, she's dead.

She was MURDERED!

Hmmmm...........abusive husband who said he wasn't,..........wife who said she was abused (in other words) and now she's dead.

Decisions, decisions,........

JMHO
fran

Jaydee0158
07-25-2008, 10:06 PM
Thats my opinion! Im still not conviced he is the murder though! I was one of the guilties! Im not so sure now! JMO:confused:

I was suspicious in the very beginning b/c of all the wives that have been turning up dead, but after some of the things starting coming out in the MSM, I really was not convinced that he did this. I'll reserve my judgment for more facts....
JMO, too.

mom2boys
07-25-2008, 10:12 PM
Regardless of whether she was a spender or not really doesn't have anything to do with her being murdered.
I do tend to think it is the husband. I've just seen so many cases like this. It makes the most sense based on the information that is there. Emotions and spending aside. It is usually the one with the motive and reason and the one closest to the victim.
Seems to be Brad had a lot to lose if the divorce she was seeking went through.

Jaydee0158
07-25-2008, 10:13 PM
Excuse me? Oh, I see. You must think I think she deserved this? Not in a million years! No one deserves to have their life taken by anyone!

That does not erase the mental picture that is being painted in the press - by both sides... like I said, a lot of mudslinging is going on and very little fact b/c those are being withheld by the authorities.

IMHO.

Jaydee0158
07-25-2008, 10:16 PM
Yes, how IRONIC that this "spoiled, spendthrift, SAHM, who was just in it for the lump sum, the BMW, the $2100/month" happened in that coinky-dink way to be murdered just when her separation was really getting legs.

SNIP

@@

tsk, tsk, tsk. Name calling and I've only posted one little opinion. I thought those were allowed. Or am I misreading this @@?

SleuthyGal
07-25-2008, 10:17 PM
@@ = blinking eyes

Fuquaylj
07-25-2008, 10:19 PM
We all have a right to our opinions. I think all the reading we've been doing over the last couple of days has shown that this case is not as black & white as we thought.

sues
07-25-2008, 10:22 PM
Snipped from Jaydee0158:
"What makes no sense to me it that if things were as bad as NC wanted her friends and parents to believe, why stick around? She is an educated woman. She was intelligent by all indications. She has a father that is in the business to help in such cases. Why did she stay there? To get the BMW X5, $2100 a month in CS, $50,000 lump sum, alimony, and the residual of the 401K after all else was paid off? This strikes me as a bit odd. Maybe it wasn’t as bad as described. But regardless, NC apparently felt trapped in a marriage to someone she did not want to be married to. But was she trapped by him or by selfish desires?"

I certainly think it's possible that these allegations are partially if not completely true. And I've posted before that if a friend of mine had a wife that was using him for $ and driving them to the poorhouse, I would hate her and think she was horrible. Nancy could, in fact, be a horrible gold-digger who was trying to take BC for everything he was worth. Is that illegal? No. Is she on trial for that? No. If true, would BC have a reason to hate her? Yep. Could it be a powerful motivator for murder? Possibly.

I'm just saying that all of this stuff about NC being spendy and trying to take him to the cleaners, while it doesn't make NC smell like a rose, it really does bring to light a strong morivator for murder. (NOT saying she deserved to be killed IF the allegations are true--just that it would be a motivator.)

Crazy Canuck
07-25-2008, 10:23 PM
I have to admit I believed some of Brad's' rebuttal because it was all stuff that could be easily proven. However, whether Brad or nancy's friends are telling the truth is really not relevant to whether he killed her. Sure her friends make him out to be an absentee husband who may or may not have been a little controlling but none of that can prove murder.

If Brad is innocent then I would like him to answer the following questions, since he seems to have an answer for everything and many here suspect he is reading. Here are my questions:

1. Why have the LE publically stated that her murder is not random. Isn't he concerned that someone he knows killed his wife then? Wouldn't he be concerned for his own safety?

2. Why - in a neighbourhood where everyone seemed to know everyone and their business- did not one person see nancy jogging on a Saturday morning?

Thats all I've got which is why I'm wondering why everyone thinks he did it. My gut tells me he did it but the facts don't.:confused:

maggief
07-25-2008, 10:23 PM
Pedicures
http://art2mis.blogspot.com/2006/09/rossi-pasta.html


"The only way we beat the heat here in NC is by running at 6:00 am." (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=31717822&postID=115439707438489110)

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=31717822&postID=115439707438489110


Saturday, April 26, 2008
Spanakopitakia
These have been altered to be Ms. N-friendly...she cannot digest any cow-based dairy products, but is fine with goat's milk.


Monday, August 14, 2006
A summer week of fun...

Sun. 8/13: We were going to have Ms. N. et famille over, but they canceled, so we did ribs for ourselves again. This time we tossed the broth, though, since I'll be out of town later on in the week.

Jaydee0158
07-25-2008, 10:25 PM
@@ = blinking eyes

Oh, thanks! Sorry. I will have to learn all the WSese around here.

luckyme
07-25-2008, 10:27 PM
I have to admit I believed some of Brad's' rebuttal because it was all stuff that could be easily proven. However, whether Brad or nancy's friends are telling the truth is really not relevant to whether he killed her. Sure her friends make him out to be an absentee husband who may or may not have been a little controlling but none of that can prove murder.

If Brad is innocent then I would like him to answer the following questions, since he seems to have an answer for everything and many here suspect he is reading. Here are my questions:

1. Why have the LE publically stated that her murder is not random. Isn't he concerned that someone he knows killed his wife then? Wouldn't he be concerned for his own safety?

2. Why - in a neighbourhood where everyone seemed to know everyone and their business- did not one person see nancy jogging on a Saturday morning?

Thats all I've got which is why I'm wondering why everyone thinks he did it. My gut tells me he did it but the facts don't.:confused:

wow! very good! jmo

Carrington
07-25-2008, 10:30 PM
I thought Brad's statements did read as to his motive for murder.
Motive is the biggie, means and opportunity he already had.
IMO

luckyme
07-25-2008, 10:32 PM
wow! very good! jmo

Oh shoot! i forgot ot say how many people were up on that sat morning to know if she went jogging? I bet no one at that party? JMO

Jaydee0158
07-25-2008, 10:33 PM
Sues, I agree that there is definitely cause for some suspicion... ie. huge motive! Then again, some things have been said over the past week that, IMO, raise the possibility of other POIs. Does anyone know with 100% certainty NC was not seeing someone (emotionally affair, maybe)? Impatient she would not just end the relationship with BC? Forensics on the PCs will tell that. What about a potential love interest of BC, IF he was have all those affairs alleged by neighbors. What $$$$ would be left for his "tart" (loved it when I read that by someone!) if NC got it all?

Again, I am waiting for the facts. In the meantime, I find some of the theories here very interesting.

SleuthyGal
07-25-2008, 10:35 PM
On the heels of Crazy's good questions I too am concerned. I live in Cary. I'm a single woman, living alone.

The CPD said this is "an isolated incident and the community is not at risk to the best of their knowledge." To me that means it was someone close to or known by the victim.

If it's someone 'random,' then that is scary stuff indeed and it makes me very nervous. Do I believe the police on this? Should I assume they've got it wrong?

And if the husband didn't want her dead and didn't do the deed, then which friend or acquaintance might have done it?

And if it's none of the above then who is the murdering nutjob running around Cary?

SleuthyGal
07-25-2008, 10:36 PM
On the heels of Crazy's good questions I too am concerned. I live in Cary. I'm a single woman, living alone.

The CPD said this is "an isolated incident and the community is not at risk to the best of their knowledge." To me that means it was someone close to or known by the victim.

If it's someone 'random,' then that is scary stuff indeed and it makes me very nervous. Do I believe the police on this? Should I assume they've got it wrong?

And if the husband didn't want her dead and didn't do the deed, then which friend or acquaintance might have done it?

And if it's none of the above then who is the murdering nutjob running around Cary?

sues
07-25-2008, 10:46 PM
Sues, I agree that there is definitely cause for some suspicion... ie. huge motive! Then again, some things have been said over the past week that, IMO, raise the possibility of other POIs. Does anyone know with 100% certainty NC was not seeing someone (emotionally affair, maybe)? Impatient she would not just end the relationship with BC? Forensics on the PCs will tell that. What about a potential love interest of BC, IF he was have all those affairs alleged by neighbors. What $$$$ would be left for his "tart" (loved it when I read that by someone!) if NC got it all?

Again, I am waiting for the facts. In the meantime, I find some of the theories here very interesting.

Jaydee, I am with you on withholding judgement until evidence is revealed. I am far from 100% certain that it was BC.

However, if I had to bet on it, my $ would be on BC as the murderer. Just statistically, given their apparent circumstances (money issues being undisputed), BC has a HUGE motive. It is a much bigger motive than a lover of NC would have. I mean, gosh, if his affidavit is true, then he would have every reason to really, really dislike her (not justification for murder, of course)! And it just is statistically less likely that a woman--a lover of BC-- would commit a murder of another woman(not impossible, just much, much less common).

Luckily I don't have to bet. And luckily a jury will have all of the evidence.

And to Sleuthygirl: I am with you. For my piece-of-mind, I want to know who committed this murder. A big part of me WANTS it to be BC so I won't be so nervous when I'm out jogging. Honestly, I am not the WSer type, and I joined to try to get some piece-of-mind that I *might* be safe around here.

ETA: I didn't mean anything bad by "WSer type". I just meant that I don't usually follow criminal cases very closely. :)

RoughlyCollie
07-25-2008, 10:49 PM
There's a guy over on the TWW (the wolf web) site that says she was the #1 customer in his store and that she never once came in there looking like she was on a budget.

Another guy said NC (also the #1 customer in his store) was supposed to come into their store around noon on that Saturday to buy some clothes she had on hold and they put them back on the rack at 4 pm figuring she didn't want them. Then they donated the white dresses to the family that the girls wore to the memorial service -- the same white dresses NC had put on hold for them. (Children's boutique with $150 dresses)




I do find the discrepancies between all the affidavits very interesting (& confusing!!!).

Jaydee0158
07-25-2008, 10:52 PM
1. Why have the LE publically stated that her murder is not random. Isn't he concerned that someone he knows killed his wife then? Wouldn't he be concerned for his own safety?

2. Why - in a neighbourhood where everyone seemed to know everyone and their business- did not one person see nancy jogging on a Saturday morning?

Thats all I've got which is why I'm wondering why everyone thinks he did it. My gut tells me he did it but the facts don't.:confused:

I'm not BC, but I will say that maybe he is concerned for his safety. We do not know for a fact that he is not. Re Q-2, don't know. Could it be that they partied late and slept in? Not advocating for him, by any means. Just questioning the very little that we actually do know at this point.

Jaydee0158
07-25-2008, 10:58 PM
I am so sorry this happened in your area. I am really concerned with the state of things in general in this country and the lack of morals or value of life. I have been through the bad marriage thing with a gun-toting ex who's life ambition was to be on a PD. I am fortunate to have that behind me.

raisincharlie
07-25-2008, 10:59 PM
Oh shoot! i forgot ot say how many people were up on that sat morning to know if she went jogging? I bet no one at that party? JMO

Nancy was up by at least 6:40 am - why wouldn't other partiers be up ? Maybe they all went to the store :crazy:

raisincharlie
07-25-2008, 11:01 PM
I am so sorry this happened in your area. I am really concerned with the state of things in general in this country and the lack of morals or value of life. I have been through the bad marriage thing with a gun-toting ex who's life ambition was to be on a PD. I am fortunate to have that behind me.

Hopefully he didn't make it on a PD.

Jaydee0158
07-25-2008, 11:03 PM
On the heels of Crazy's good questions I too am concerned. I live in Cary. I'm a single woman, living alone.

The CPD said this is "an isolated incident and the community is not at risk to the best of their knowledge." To me that means it was someone close to or known by the victim.

If it's someone 'random,' then that is scary stuff indeed and it makes me very nervous. Do I believe the police on this? Should I assume they've got it wrong?

And if the husband didn't want her dead and didn't do the deed, then which friend or acquaintance might have done it?

And if it's none of the above then who is the murdering nutjob running around Cary?

Always use caution, regardless. I am sorry this happened in your area. I am really concerned about the state of our world -- too much violence with no morals or regard for human life. I hope the CPD have a POI in their sights with some good hard evidence. It will be interesting to see if anything happens on Monday (GJ day).

Jaydee0158
07-25-2008, 11:06 PM
Yikes ! Three times the same thought! That's what happens when one is distracted by a 7-year old naked jaybird running through the house! Gotta get a youngster to bed. Will catch up on all the reading later. Be safe, everyone!

SleuthyGal
07-25-2008, 11:07 PM
Good thing I am neither a jogger nor an early morning riser! On the walks I go on I am always with my dog and we stay on well-traveled sidewalks right in the open, during daylight hours.

jilly
07-25-2008, 11:24 PM
I have lots of reading to catch up on... still have to read half of thread 10 before moving on to this one but I wanted to comment then go back and try to catch up. Like the rest of you, I too have an opinion! Boy are the opinions strong around here!

First of all Jaydee :Welcome-12-june:

I totally agree with you on the fact that this was not a planned murder. We have no evidence of that to date. Like you, I think it's a good possibility that things got out of hand and he basically 'lost it'. Since we don't yet know the COD (cause of death), it's impossible for me to speculate on premeditation.

At the present time, I believe Brad is the perp. He was the last one to see her that morning (by his own admission). The nite before he had left her at a party and they were having marital difficulties and planning a divorce. For me, he had the means, motive and opportunity.

You may be right about Nancy but the poor woman is dead now so I think, at the very least, we should keep in mind that all parties who gave these sworn affidavits have not been cross examined in a Court of Law.

As far as why Nancy stayed with him there could have been a million reasons. For starters, I believe she couldn't get a green card or that was in the process. Maybe she loved him; maybe she believed in family and holding it together; maybe she thought their girls would have a better life if they stayed together. In the end, she apparently made the move to end the marriage.

On the other side of the coin, we've been advised that Brad was having an affair, maybe more. - so why did he "stick around"? I guess, like many couples, they may have both stayed in the marriage initially out of convenience.

Magister
07-25-2008, 11:28 PM
The Chief actually said that nothing had been reported that would indicate this was anything other than an isolated incident. She did not and could not categorically say it that is was or was not an isolated incident because at that time they had only started gathering the evidence and it would've been irresponsible for her to say anything, otherwise.

Not to mention that this was over a week ago and what's more, prior to the body being found, she said that they had no reason to suspect foul play. For all we know, as I keep saying, perhaps Bella saw her mother go running. I mean at that early stage of the investigation, I don't know how much the children had been questioned, but just like the Chief couldn't confirm or deny the bleach, she simply said that nothing had been reported, nothing more.

Thus far, the police have not named anyone a person of interest and they've been so tight-lipped, we really don't have any evidence for or against Brad or anyone. Perhaps, the Cary PD is sticking to their guns and not commenting on anything and/or maybe they're letting all of us focus on Brad, so the real killer will make a mistake.

We really don't know anything, except for a few statistics and what a couple of people think.
---

ETA: Cops don't generally go around sounding alarms when there's only been one incident and most of the time, they don't publicly classify murders as random or not. I mean, how many murders today in LA were random and how many isolated? I don't have a clue.

jilly
07-25-2008, 11:35 PM
There's a guy over on the TWW (the wolf web) site that says she was the #1 customer in his store and that she never once came in there looking like she was on a budget.

Another guy said NC (also the #1 customer in his store) was supposed to come into their store around noon on that Saturday to buy some clothes she had on hold and they put them back on the rack at 4 pm figuring she didn't want them. Then they donated the white dresses to the family that the girls wore to the memorial service -- the same white dresses NC had put on hold for them. (Children's boutique with $150 dresses)

Awww, isn't that nice of them to do that! Thanks for that tidbit Roughly Collie!:)

jilly
07-25-2008, 11:39 PM
Nancy was up by at least 6:40 am - why wouldn't other partiers be up ? Maybe they all went to the store :crazy:

:rotfl:

Magister
07-25-2008, 11:49 PM
Nancy was up by at least 6:40 am - why wouldn't other partiers be up ?

Reportedly, Nancy left the BBQ around midnight and Brad's affidavit implies that the kids are early risers, perhaps they get up at 6:30?

I know that a couple of my daughter's friends get up at six, my daughter gets up around seven and my wife at 5:30, all with or without an alarm and generally without regard for what they did, the night before.

Magister
07-26-2008, 12:59 AM
On the heels of Crazy's good questions I too am concerned. I live in Cary. I'm a single woman, living alone.

The CPD said this is "an isolated incident and the community is not at risk to the best of their knowledge." To me that means it was someone close to or known by the victim.

If it's someone 'random,' then that is scary stuff indeed and it makes me very nervous. Do I believe the police on this? Should I assume they've got it wrong?

And if the husband didn't want her dead and didn't do the deed, then which friend or acquaintance might have done it?

And if it's none of the above then who is the murdering nutjob running around Cary?

A mobile serial killer leaves "isolated incidents" wherever they go; Someone who kills every ten years on some kind of anniversary could appear random; A drunk driver that accidently hits and kills a jogger, then quickly disposes of the body to avoid a DWI wouldn't necessarily appear to be nutjob running around the streets of Cary, though such a callous act would certainly make them one...

IOW: Just because something is isolated doesn't mean that it's always obvious to those without the facts, and what would you have rather the Chief done? There's a single victim, by definition it is isolated and not part of any pattern, so should she have started screaming "lock your doors" just because one person fell?

Jaydee0158
07-26-2008, 01:16 AM
Hopefully he didn't make it on a PD.

No, but he is in the security business. Haven't seen him in years.

Jaydee0158
07-26-2008, 01:27 AM
First of all Jaydee :Welcome-12-june:

I totally agree with you on the fact that this was not a planned murder. We have no evidence of that to date. Like you, I think it's a good possibility that things got out of hand and he basically 'lost it'. Since we don't yet know the COD (cause of death), it's impossible for me to speculate on premeditation.

At the present time, I believe Brad is the perp. He was the last one to see her that morning (by his own admission). The nite before he had left her at a party and they were having marital difficulties and planning a divorce. For me, he had the means, motive and opportunity.

You may be right about Nancy but the poor woman is dead now so I think, at the very least, we should keep in mind that all parties who gave these sworn affidavits have not been cross examined in a Court of Law.

As far as why Nancy stayed with him there could have been a million reasons. For starters, I believe she couldn't get a green card or that was in the process. Maybe she loved him; maybe she believed in family and holding it together; maybe she thought their girls would have a better life if they stayed together. In the end, she apparently made the move to end the marriage.

On the other side of the coin, we've been advised that Brad was having an affair, maybe more. - so why did he "stick around"? I guess, like many couples, they may have both stayed in the marriage initially out of convenience.

Thank you, Jilly.

You're right above - all good points. Lots of good points to ponder contributed by many here. My head is spinning. :abnormal: Going to bed. Good night, all.

NCBanker
07-26-2008, 01:45 AM
WOW - I go out of town on business for a couple of days and then get back to find all these affidavits!

I never thought I'd say this, but after reading both sides, I'm not as convinced as I was...

It's unfortunate that there are things less flattering surfacing about Nancy. Of course, we know no one's perfect, and she certainly didn't deserve to die.

Reading the other side's response does, however, give me pause. I'm not as ready to convict him now that he's provided ample response to the litany of accusations, which can easily be verified.

Justthefax pointed out a few days ago that if in fact BC had been caught in a lie concerning the trip to the store, he would have already been arrested. I agree with that assertion.

If only we could know the cause of death...

MoonFlwr
07-26-2008, 03:29 AM
On the previous thread, someone asked why some posters are saying, "I hope it wasn't Brad who killed Nancy".

Well, it would be a happy ending (as happy as it can be, given you've lost your mom) for the girls to at least be able to have their father back if he was not involved in Nancy's death!

wirehair
07-26-2008, 09:33 AM
LE is out on Holly Springs road again this morning stopping traffic and giving out flyers.

RoughlyCollie
07-26-2008, 09:39 AM
That doesn't seem like a good sign to me. If they had the evidence to arrest BC, I think they would have done so already. IMO, LE wouldn't waste the time and personnel to hand out flyers if they knew for sure that BC did it. I don't think they are doing this just to put icing on the cake, ie., to prove that they looked at someone other than BC.

What we think we know about BC may fit the profile (not literally, just based on other cases) and statistics associated with wife killers, but that alone does not prove anything.

Respectfully,
RC

LE is out on Holly Springs road again this morning stopping traffic and giving out flyers.

raisincharlie
07-26-2008, 09:49 AM
LE is out on Holly Springs road again this morning stopping traffic and giving out flyers.


Question about the fliers - if you know - do the fliers show Nancy and are they requesting information as to if anyone saw her during a certain time period ?

raisincharlie
07-26-2008, 10:01 AM
That doesn't seem like a good sign to me. If they had the evidence to arrest BC, I think they would have done so already. IMO, LE wouldn't waste the time and personnel to hand out flyers if they knew for sure that BC did it. I don't think they are doing this just to put icing on the cake, ie., to prove that they looked at someone other than BC.

What we think we know about BC may fit the profile (not literally, just based on other cases) and statistics associated with wife killers, but that alone does not prove anything.

Respectfully,
RC

Until the forensics come back or a witness, extremely reliable witness, appears, I see no reason how LE could arrest anyone. LE has said it is isolated, they have also said it was not a random murder. Sure would look like that old rush to judgement issue again if LE does not pursue all avenues.

I don't know how to interpret the fliers since we don't know what the focus of the flier is. It very well could be a cover all the bases approach or it could be a serious attempt to get someone to come forward and say they saw Nancy jogging at such and such place at such and such time, or it could be did anyone see a vehicle or an odd person in the undeveloped area where Nancy was found.

Maybe someone can tell us.

Figbarinc
07-26-2008, 10:17 AM
Hey everyone!!!
I am new to the ballgame, Just getting my feet wet.
I have been lurking for the last 1 and 1/2 weeks.
I am not up to a sparing match yet. Maybe I will be able
to show my fangs later on

Just throwing my two cents in.

IIRC about 10 mil. letters ago a former room-mate of BC implied that
BC was quite the narcissist. NC friends have all alluded to this and
his very controlling nature.
There is still a nagging rumor that BC went shopping much earlier than
he states in any of his affivadits or statements.
Why file a rebuttal against supposed allegations if you are also filing an
objection against these allegations?
My gut leans toward BC killing his wife. However, CPD has not named a POI or
names a suspect Yet.We having nothing in the way of hard evidence implicating anyone Hopefully the sands of time will provide Golden Nuggets of truth that we so desperately need. I guess until then every opinion and observation is usefual

raisincharlie
07-26-2008, 10:22 AM
Hey everyone!!!
I am new to the ballgame, Just getting my feet wet.
I have been lurking for the last 1 and 1/2 weeks.
I am not up to a sparing match yet. Maybe I will be able
to show my fangs later on

Just throwing my two cents in.

IIRC about 10 mil. letters ago a former room-mate of BC implied that
BC was quite the narcissist. NC friends have all alluded to this and
his very controlling nature.
There is still a nagging rumor that BC went shopping much earlier than
he states in any of his affivadits or statements.
Why file a rebuttal against supposed allegations if you are also filing an
objection against these allegations?
My gut leans toward BC killing his wife. However, CPD has not named a POI or
names a suspect Yet.We having nothing in the way of hard evidence implicating anyone Hopefully the sands of time will provide Golden Nuggets of truth that we so desperately need. I guess until then every opinion and observation is usefual

Welcome Figbarinc ! Fangs included :)

I have highlighted what I believe is an excellent point. Such a contradiction isn't it ? And a very good question.

Have fun !

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 10:24 AM
For what it's worth, I was at the court house yesterday. Before 2 pm, the judge brought all the media in (20 +). She laid the rules about no using blackberries or texting + other behavior rules. When the parties never showed, word soon came in the hall around 2:45 that they were together on the 4th floor trying to compromise an agreement before the hearing.

It was worth the wait, as on the 8th floor is the DA office as well as the Grand Jury room.

The Wake DA, Colin Willoughby walked down the hall and I overheard a conversation he had with a female from WTVD. I got lucky and was in the right place at just the right time.
He obviously knew these media people very well and off the record said:

"I don't know what they will decide, but I would guess they will go for status-quo for now. It would be messy if he is charged 2 months from now and another emergency custody hearing must be scheduled"....

Sooo....I took it as it is very likely Brad Cooper will be charged with murder before October.

Star12
07-26-2008, 10:31 AM
[QUOTE=Just the Fax;2419713]

The Wake DA, Colin Willoughby walked down the hall and I overheard a conversation he had with a female from WTVD. I got lucky and was in the right place at just the right time.
He obviously knew these media people very well and off the record said: QUOTE]

I would think that if the Wake County DA were speaking off the record, it would not be proper to disseminate his words in a public forum on the internet.

It would be proper to delete your message, however, before someone else does.

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 10:37 AM
[quote=Just the Fax;2419713]

The Wake DA, Colin Willoughby walked down the hall and I overheard a conversation he had with a female from WTVD. I got lucky and was in the right place at just the right time.
He obviously knew these media people very well and off the record said: QUOTE]

I would think that if the Wake County DA were speaking off the record, it would not be proper to disseminate his words in a public forum on the internet.

It would be proper to delete your message, however, before someone else does.

I overheard a simple conversation in a public domain. He did not reveal anything confidential , he was simply saying he guessed it would remain status quo based on a hypothetical.

I then drew my own conclusion and posted it.

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed Star ?

fran
07-26-2008, 10:47 AM
For what it's worth, I was at the court house yesterday. Before 2 pm, the judge brought all the media in (20 +). She laid the rules about no using blackberries or texting + other behavior rules. When the parties never showed, word soon came in the hall around 2:45 that they were together on the 4th floor trying to compromise an agreement before the hearing.

It was worth the wait, as on the 8th floor is the DA office as well as the Grand Jury room.

The Wake DA, Colin Willoughby walked down the hall and I overheard a conversation he had with a female from WTVD. I got lucky and was in the right place at just the right time.
He obviously knew these media people very well and off the record said:

"I don't know what they will decide, but I would guess they will go for status-quo for now. It would be messy if he is charged 2 months from now and another emergency custody hearing must be scheduled"....

Sooo....I took it as it is very likely Brad Cooper will be charged with murder before October.


That's interesting JTF. Glad you were able to make court.

We've had various Websleuthers attend court on different cases and it's always great to have a first hand account.

Thanks for your time,:)
fran

fran
07-26-2008, 10:49 AM
Hey everyone!!!
I am new to the ballgame, Just getting my feet wet.
I have been lurking for the last 1 and 1/2 weeks.
I am not up to a sparing match yet. Maybe I will be able
to show my fangs later on

Just throwing my two cents in.

IIRC about 10 mil. letters ago a former room-mate of BC implied that
BC was quite the narcissist. NC friends have all alluded to this and
his very controlling nature.
There is still a nagging rumor that BC went shopping much earlier than
he states in any of his affivadits or statements.
Why file a rebuttal against supposed allegations if you are also filing an
objection against these allegations?
My gut leans toward BC killing his wife. However, CPD has not named a POI or
names a suspect Yet.We having nothing in the way of hard evidence implicating anyone Hopefully the sands of time will provide Golden Nuggets of truth that we so desperately need. I guess until then every opinion and observation is usefual

Great first post Figbarinc.

I totally agree.

Welcome to Websleuths! :)

fran

fran
07-26-2008, 10:54 AM
Until the forensics come back or a witness, extremely reliable witness, appears, I see no reason how LE could arrest anyone. LE has said it is isolated, they have also said it was not a random murder. Sure would look like that old rush to judgement issue again if LE does not pursue all avenues.

I don't know how to interpret the fliers since we don't know what the focus of the flier is. It very well could be a cover all the bases approach or it could be a serious attempt to get someone to come forward and say they saw Nancy jogging at such and such place at such and such time, or it could be did anyone see a vehicle or an odd person in the undeveloped area where Nancy was found.

Maybe someone can tell us.

IMHO, the flyers could be to eliminate, as well as accumulate information. Like, IF a person was out that Saturday morning and did NOT see Nancy jogging, that's evidence.

We've seen this before. All the witnesses at the Berkeley Marina who testified they did NOT see SP. He said he'd actually spoken to the personnel there and even describe the conversation. The pros proved he did NOT talk to anyone there, which was circumstantial evidence he did NOT leave from the Marina as he had stated.

There were people who originally stated they had seen Laci at the park. Yet,...........they were never called by the defense. IMO, because they most likely realized it was NOT Laci they had seen. Thus, she was NOT at the park as the now convicted murderer had stated.

JMHO
fran

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 10:54 AM
It is interesting the DA or cops in Wake County refuse to 'name' a suspect in these high profile cases (same with Ann Miller and Jason Young).

I asked a deputy at the courthouse yesterday about that in general. He said it is done so it is not inflammatory towards the potential jury pool and does not influence someones right to a fair trial.....same basic thought with sealing damning search warrants.

Remember, the key words when you hear no 'person of interest' or 'suspect' is not named

fran
07-26-2008, 11:00 AM
That doesn't seem like a good sign to me. If they had the evidence to arrest BC, I think they would have done so already. IMO, LE wouldn't waste the time and personnel to hand out flyers if they knew for sure that BC did it. I don't think they are doing this just to put icing on the cake, ie., to prove that they looked at someone other than BC.

What we think we know about BC may fit the profile (not literally, just based on other cases) and statistics associated with wife killers, but that alone does not prove anything.

Respectfully,
RC

Whenever we, from the outside looking in, get impatient of LE not making a speedy arrest,...........think OJ.

The defendent is entitled to a speedy trial. LE MUST have all their evidence gathered BEFORE they arrest the POI, or suspect. IF they don't, they may loose because evidence comes in too late to be presented in court.

THe defendent is entitled to review evidence to be used against him, 30 days, IIRC, prior to trial.

JMHO
fran

Star12
07-26-2008, 11:00 AM
It just seems to me that since it was off the record, and was said by the district attorney, that perhaps it should be held as confidential.

I don't mean to step on any toes here, but after many years working in the legal field, you get kind of cautious about what is said, implied, or just understood.

I would hate for this case to be compromised, or for WS to be censured, because of a slip.

I get very hinky, and very much uptight about stuff like this. So maybe it's just me being very straightlaced.

Sorry if I offended you, Fax, but to paraphrase Fran's tag, I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

raisincharlie
07-26-2008, 11:02 AM
IMHO, the flyers could be to eliminate, as well as accumulate information. Like, IF a person was out that Saturday morning and did NOT see Nancy jogging, that's evidence.

We've seen this before. All the witnesses at the Berkeley Marina who testified they did NOT see SP. He said he'd actually spoken to the personnel there and even describe the conversation. The pros proved he did NOT talk to anyone there, which was circumstantial evidence he did NOT leave from the Marina as he had stated.

There were people who originally stated they had seen Laci at the park. Yet,...........they were never called by the defense. IMO, because they most likely realized it was NOT Laci they had seen. Thus, she was NOT at the park as the now convicted murderer had stated.

JMHO
fran

I think so as well Fran. LE wants to know if anyone saw Nancy that Saturday morning, what time and where if they did see her. If witnesses come foward LE will make the maps and note the times to define the potential viability of such sightings if there are any. Same with a vehicle, lets hope another brown van shows up :crazy:

I believe LE would be remiss if it did not have all this data before taking the cas to the DA. Its all good.

fran
07-26-2008, 11:03 AM
It is interesting the DA or cops in Wake County refuse to 'name' a suspect in these high profile cases (same with Ann Miller and Jason Young).

I asked a deputy at the courthouse yesterday about that in general. He said it is done so it is not inflammatory towards the potential jury pool and does not influence someones right to a fair trial.....same basic thought with sealing damning search warrants.

Remember, the key words when you hear no 'person of interest' or 'suspect' is not named


LOL, we here at Websleuths learned that a long time ago. They used to say POI, thinking that would satisfy everyone without actually naming a suspect. Yet the public became aware POI means they're a 'suspect' in LE's eye. So they've even done away with POI unless they are SURE they have their man, orrrr woman!

JMHO
fran

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 11:04 AM
It just seems to me that since it was off the record, and was said by the district attorney, that perhaps it should be held as confidential.

I don't mean to step on any toes here, but after many years working in the legal field, you get kind of cautious about what is said, implied, or just understood.

I would hate for this case to be compromised, or for WS to be censured, because of a slip.

I get very hinky, and very much uptight about stuff like this. So maybe it's just me being very straightlaced.

Sorry if I offended you, Fax, but to paraphrase Fran's tag, I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

The DA had nothing to do with the custody hearing....hence, that is why he was walking the halls conversing with numerous media folks in the area.

The term 'off the record' was mine, as that was not used by him to preface his casual conversation.

Again, I drew my own conclusion based on his hypothetical that if he is arrested in 2 months.....

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 11:07 AM
LOL, we here at Websleuths learned that a long time ago. They used to say POI, thinking that would satisfy everyone without actually naming a suspect. Yet the public became aware POI means they're a 'suspect' in LE's eye. So they've even done away with POI unless they are SURE they have their man, orrrr woman!

JMHO
fran

The DA in Wake county does not like to use either term even if the know who the killer is....just look at Jason Young and Ann Miller ;)

fran
07-26-2008, 11:07 AM
LE is out on Holly Springs road again this morning stopping traffic and giving out flyers.

That's good! Shows they're continuing the investigation.

Everybody should be happy about that!

JMHO
fran

fran
07-26-2008, 11:09 AM
The DA in Wake county does not like to use either term even if the know who the killer is....just look at Jason Young and Ann Miller ;)

That's what I was saying. LE STOPPED using that term. Errrr........unless an arrest is IMINENT.........meaning within hours! ;)

JMHO
fran

raisincharlie
07-26-2008, 11:09 AM
Whenever we, from the outside looking in, get impatient of LE not making a speedy arrest,...........think OJ.

The defendent is entitled to a speedy trial. LE MUST have all their evidence gathered BEFORE they arrest the POI, or suspect. IF they don't, they may loose because evidence comes in too late to be presented in court.

THe defendent is entitled to review evidence to be used against him, 30 days, IIRC, prior to trial.

JMHO
fran

Additionally in NC the moment a person is arrested, their counsil has the right to receive all discovery beginning at that point. Also if I recall it correctly, NC is not a reciprical discovery state. In other words the DA must turn over his evidence but the defense council is not required to provide any to the DA.

Am I recalling that correctly Just the Fax ?

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 11:09 AM
That's good! Shows they're continuing the investigation.

Everybody should be happy about that!

JMHO
fran

They want to know if anyone saw a silver BMW X-5 .


While out, I drove by Brad's house and the area where her body was found.

*Her body was dumped 10 feet off the road in a paved, but totally undeveloped cul-de-sac. It was 1.1 miles in the very back area of a new section of existing subdivision ($500,000 + homes).

*The entrance to the subdivision is only 1.3 miles from his home
(no way anyone would jog there, as 2 lane very busy road with no SWs)

It was obvious he chose a remote area where the body would not likely be found for days or possibly weeks.


Photos of the actual site and area

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/alive695/bodylocation.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/alive695/bodyloc1.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/alive695/culdesac.jpg

raisincharlie
07-26-2008, 11:11 AM
They want to know if anyone saw a silver BMW X-5 .


While out, I drove by Brad's house and the area where her body was found.

*Her body was dumped 10 feet off the road in a paved, but totally undeveloped cul-de-sac. It was 1.1 miles in the very back area of a new section of existing subdivision ($500,000 + homes).

*The entrance to the subdivision is only 1.3 miles from his home
(no way anyone would jog there, as 2 lane very busy road with no SWs)

It was obvious he chose a remote area where the body would not likely be found for days or possibly weeks.

Is that what the fliers are asking - about the BMW SUV ? Really?

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 11:15 AM
Is that what the fliers are asking - about the BMW SUV ? Really?

I have not seen one of the flyers .

I doubt they are being that direct, but likely asking if they saw an 'unfamiliar vehicle' in the area.

I guess I need to drive back over there and see for myself.:)

fran
07-26-2008, 11:16 AM
I have to admit I believed some of Brad's' rebuttal because it was all stuff that could be easily proven. However, whether Brad or nancy's friends are telling the truth is really not relevant to whether he killed her. Sure her friends make him out to be an absentee husband who may or may not have been a little controlling but none of that can prove murder.

If Brad is innocent then I would like him to answer the following questions, since he seems to have an answer for everything and many here suspect he is reading. Here are my questions:

1. Why have the LE publically stated that her murder is not random. Isn't he concerned that someone he knows killed his wife then? Wouldn't he be concerned for his own safety?

2. Why - in a neighbourhood where everyone seemed to know everyone and their business- did not one person see nancy jogging on a Saturday morning?

Thats all I've got which is why I'm wondering why everyone thinks he did it. My gut tells me he did it but the facts don't.:confused:

Those are very good questions Crazy Canuck. I'm sure he's working on the answers right now. ;)

My question to anyone that doubts there was actually abuse in the Cooper marriage, I would like to ask just one thing.

Which one was MURDERED?

Just sayin'
fran

PS...I know this is going to sound corny........but that's why we're here at Websleuths. We're the voice for the victim, the silenced.....:(......fran

fran
07-26-2008, 11:19 AM
I have not seen one of the flyers .

I doubt they are being that direct, but likely asking if they saw an 'unfamiliar vehicle' in the area.

I guess I need to drive back over there and see for myself.:)

Great pictures! That would be helpful if you could actually get one of the flyers.

Boy, we're lucky you joined our community. Wealth of information.

Thanks,:)
fran

PS......see how these cases can get under your skin.....'voice for the silenced.'

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 11:19 AM
Additionally in NC the moment a person is arrested, their counsil has the right to receive all discovery beginning at that point. Also if I recall it correctly, NC is not a reciprical discovery state. In other words the DA must turn over his evidence but the defense council is not required to provide any to the DA.

Am I recalling that correctly Just the Fax ?


North Carolina's open file discovery law passed in 2004.

Correct, the prosecutors must turn over everything to the defense but the defense does not have to do the same.

" Without the 2004 law, much of the exculpatory evidence Durham County Prosecutor Mike Nifong illegally withheld in the Duke case would never have come to light because Nifong wouldn't have been required to inform defense attorneys it existed."

http://charlotte.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A156124

fran
07-26-2008, 11:23 AM
North Carolina's open file discovery law passed in 2004.

In California they must turn over discovery 30 days prior to trial. I'm not sure if it's 30 days before it's going to be used, or the actual onset of the trial.

Oh, and they ONLY turn over what they HAVE to.

Like if they have evidence to go to a GJ, they ONLY present what they need to to get an indictment. They may have MORE, just not turn it over until they HAVE TO by law.

A retired detective told me one time, 'you always hold something back.';)

JMHO
fran

fran
07-26-2008, 11:53 AM
On the heels of Crazy's good questions I too am concerned. I live in Cary. I'm a single woman, living alone.

The CPD said this is "an isolated incident and the community is not at risk to the best of their knowledge." To me that means it was someone close to or known by the victim.

If it's someone 'random,' then that is scary stuff indeed and it makes me very nervous. Do I believe the police on this? Should I assume they've got it wrong?

And if the husband didn't want her dead and didn't do the deed, then which friend or acquaintance might have done it?

And if it's none of the above then who is the murdering nutjob running around Cary?


Just to be safe, it's best to take precausions to protect yourself. Whether there's rumor or fact or even NOT that there's someone out killing innocent people. Let's face it, this case proves that 'something bad' can happen anywhere to anyone.

Even you and me.

JMHO
fran

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 11:57 AM
Just to be safe, it's best to take precausions to protect yourself. Whether there's rumor or fact or even NOT that there's someone out killing innocent people. Let's face it, this case proves that 'something bad' can happen anywhere to anyone.

Even you and me.

JMHO
fran

Yes, domestic homicide can happen in any state, any city or any neighborhood.

IMO, If Nancy was able to leave that horrible marriage, she would be alive today.

If some of the info in those affidavits was true (and I believe most was), Nancy was living with a monster that was poised to snap.

runnermomof5
07-26-2008, 12:01 PM
Hey Guys!
I posted on the Nancy the Jogger link when Pepper set it up. Then, Pepper got canned. So I am going to repeat some of my thoughts here.
Cause I am starting to feel like Bob. Sometimes I wonder, does anyone out there see me? LOL
Except my name is Brenda.
So, instead of "Bob Bob" , I guess you can call me "Bren Bren".
Anyway, as a long time runner, I immediately saw several red flags with BC story about NC going for a run at 7 and not returning.
Okay.
Briefly:
NC was in training for a half marathon with her friend Jessica A.
Saturday and Sunday mornings are prime mornings for what serious runners call "long runs". Usually shorter distance runs, say 3-4 miles, are done during the week and the longer runs of training are done on the weekends. Okay, IMO, Nancy would not have gone out on a run on Saturday without Jessica.
Also, since they were training together, they most likely were following a training schedule which would lead up to the half marathon. I think Jessica even mentioned this, that she and NC had discussed all their training plans.
Someone posted the finishing time for NC and HM from a 5K race a few years ago. Since they had the same finishing time, they most likely ran the race together.
Not a very fast time for someone who was supposedly quite athletic and had aspirations for being in the Olympics at one time. Of course, that is around the time NC babies were being born, too. So, she may have not been putting in much running time back then.
Another thing that bothers me is that she supposedly left the house for her run instead of her usual drive to the coffee shop, park, and then start her run from there.
Also , no one saw her out running that morning.
No one.
One Heather stated while being interviewed that she saw NC out running all the time.
So , on a Saturday morning, when lots of people are out running , walking, biking, etc. someone would have seen her, IMO.
Okay, I have read all the affidavits and I have followed all the posts here so I know that I am kinda going "backwards" by bringing this up again. BUT........to me this is where it all started. BC says that NC left the house on a run. IMO , she did not.
Oh, one more thought.
Who can get up and go running after being out late at a party the night before?
Especially if she had some wine, or other alcohol to drink at the party.
Very dehydrating!
Okay, that's it. That's my story and I am sticking to it. :)

RoughlyCollie
07-26-2008, 12:01 PM
I have never had a client, nor has anyone I know, who had a "speedy" trial.

Mostly, the defendants don't want to speed their way into a prison cell.




The defendent is entitled to a speedy trial. LE MUST have all their evidence gathered BEFORE they arrest the POI, or suspect. IF they don't, they may loose because evidence comes in too late to be presented in court.

THe defendent is entitled to review evidence to be used against him, 30 days, IIRC, prior to trial.

JMHO
fran

fran
07-26-2008, 12:02 PM
WOW - I go out of town on business for a couple of days and then get back to find all these affidavits!

I never thought I'd say this, but after reading both sides, I'm not as convinced as I was...

It's unfortunate that there are things less flattering surfacing about Nancy. Of course, we know no one's perfect, and she certainly didn't deserve to die.

Reading the other side's response does, however, give me pause. I'm not as ready to convict him now that he's provided ample response to the litany of accusations, which can easily be verified.

Justthefax pointed out a few days ago that if in fact BC had been caught in a lie concerning the trip to the store, he would have already been arrested. I agree with that assertion.

If only we could know the cause of death...

While you're pausing about who may have done this crime AND believing what her husband and friends have given affidavits of, just remember one thing.

Who was murdered?

Also, about the trip to the store. A murder case is like a huge puzzle. One piece does not spell murder. It takes a whole puzzle. LE, at this very moment, is putting the puzzle together.

Patience.

JMHO
fran

fran
07-26-2008, 12:06 PM
I have never had a client, nor has anyone I know, who had a "speedy" trial.

Well, OJ did. That's because his attornies KNEW LAPD had not gotten all their evidence back yet.

Some of the evidence came in AFTER the trial had started. That's why, IMO, the defense was able to say, at times, they're manufacturing the evidence or this would have come forth earlier.

Like Robert Shiparo said when asked if he thought OJ was guilty. His response was, "Let me put it this way. Attornies don't win cases. Prosecutors loose them."

Just sayin'
fran

SleuthyGal
07-26-2008, 12:12 PM
THANK YOU JTF for bringing us your observations and insights from the courtroom yesterday. I so appreciate it! And that was an interesting comment you heard. It makes sense, really, for a custodial 'status quo' to be maintained for now.

Plus I don't believe BC would want to submit to a forced psych evaluation as part of a custody condition, and I think that may have tipped the scales for him. It's one thing if he and his lawyer decide to seek a psych eval. on their terms...then they can release the results (or not), as they prefer. Quite a different thing to have it be a condition of you getting your kids back and BEFORE there's been any resolution in a murder case.

And Fran, thank you for being a voice of reason consistently day in and day out on this matter.

One day at a time, LE has to build the puzzle, they have to wait for any forensics to come back, and they can't just go out and arrest someone because they "believe he did it." The DA won't bring the case to a courtroom unless or until he believes this case can be proven beyond a 'reasonable doubt' to 12 jurors. And they're not there yet. Hopefully they'll get there. {crosses fingers}

SleuthyGal
07-26-2008, 12:13 PM
David Allan Westerfield (killer of 7 yr old Danielle van Dam) also had a 'speedy trial' in CA. It was a maneuver by the defense to get that trial going so that forensic information might not be available. In his case it didn't work, but try they did.

fran
07-26-2008, 12:14 PM
Hi Bren Bren or runnermomof5:

Don't be discouraged if people don't respond to you. That happens to me all the time. Just keep posting and you'll get someone's attention.

I too don't believe she went out jogging that morning. For all the reasons you said, PLUS,........how could she go on a 2 hour jog when she was due to be painting at 8:00, ONE HOUR from when she was to alleged to have left the house? Doesn't make sense, IMO.

Also, about her time. Remember, she was injurred, which was why she was no longer 'seriously' running. PLUS, she did have chrones disease, which,from what I've read, can be very hard on your body.

Nice post runnermomof5,
:)
fran

fran
07-26-2008, 12:17 PM
David Allan Westerfield (killer of 7 yr old Danielle van Dam) also had a 'speedy trial' in CA. It was a maneuver by the defense to get that trial going so that forensic information might not be available. In his case it didn't work, but try they did.

Yeah, he decided on a speedy trial AFTER the DA took off the table NO DP if he showed them where the body is, which he HAD agreed to.

Danielle was found by searchers and the DA tore up the agreement. He knew he was toast,........AND the DA was too smart for him!

Poor Danielle:(


fran

SleuthyGal
07-26-2008, 12:21 PM
Welcome BRENDA! It's nice to read your thoughts on this case. Not being a runner myself I didn't know how training for an upcoming race typically works.

I just looked at JTF's pictures from the previous page and WOW. I had not yet before seen exactly WHERE the body was found (as in I had not seen a body outline). She was right there in the open, off the side of that little turnaround road. I pictured her off over the silt barrier, closer to the water (and further from any road) or else hidden in whatever trees or bushes were around there. Very illuminating! That to me says it was a quick dump. She was NOT murdered there, but IMHO was dumped there.

fran
07-26-2008, 12:24 PM
Yes, domestic homicide can happen in any state, any city or any neighborhood.

IMO, If Nancy was able to leave that horrible marriage, she would be alive today.

If some of the info in those affidavits was true (and I believe most was), Nancy was living with a monster that was poised to snap.

Your last sentence is very chilling. IF only people in this situation can see the face of that monster, BEFORE he snaps. These victims usually do NOT even see it coming.

Hopefully with the wide coverage cases such as this get, lives will be saved, even if only a few. ONE is TOO MANY. But we've seen our headlines littered with these cases in recent years. THIS should NOT happen!

Educate! Educate and IF you see YOURSELF in Nancy, RUN for your life!

Seriously,
fran

SleuthyGal
07-26-2008, 12:24 PM
Yeah, he decided on a speedy trial AFTER the DA took off the table NO DP if he showed them where the body is, which he HAD agreed to.

Yes I remember that well. I was GLUED to that case in '02/'03. And I had just moved away from Redwood City, CA 10 months before the Laci Peterson murder. I was kind of kicking myself because I so wanted to attend that trial and there it was held in my hometown!

Well maybe I'll still get a chance if (and hopefully when) THIS case goes to trial.

Bob&Bob
07-26-2008, 11:17 PM
testing testing

OtisCampbell
07-26-2008, 11:20 PM
I too don't believe she went out jogging that morning. For all the reasons you said, PLUS,........how could she go on a 2 hour jog when she was due to be painting at 8:00, ONE HOUR from when she was to alleged to have left the house? Doesn't make sense, IMO.



On the 911 call she mentions 8:00, but later says the she (NC) was supposed to be at her house no later than 9:00. Not positive, but I believe she also mentions calling NC's house and talking to BC at 9:00. It sounds like there was a one hour time range in which she was suppose to be there. If she was suppose to be there at 8:00 she probably would have called a short time later and not waited an hour.

raisincharlie
07-26-2008, 11:22 PM
Hey Guys!
I posted on the Nancy the Jogger link when Pepper set it up. Then, Pepper got canned. So I am going to repeat some of my thoughts here.
Cause I am starting to feel like Bob. Sometimes I wonder, does anyone out there see me? LOL
Except my name is Brenda.
So, instead of "Bob Bob" , I guess you can call me "Bren Bren".
Anyway, as a long time runner, I immediately saw several red flags with BC story about NC going for a run at 7 and not returning.
Okay.
Briefly:
NC was in training for a half marathon with her friend Jessica A.
Saturday and Sunday mornings are prime mornings for what serious runners call "long runs". Usually shorter distance runs, say 3-4 miles, are done during the week and the longer runs of training are done on the weekends. Okay, IMO, Nancy would not have gone out on a run on Saturday without Jessica.
Also, since they were training together, they most likely were following a training schedule which would lead up to the half marathon. I think Jessica even mentioned this, that she and NC had discussed all their training plans.
Someone posted the finishing time for NC and HM from a 5K race a few years ago. Since they had the same finishing time, they most likely ran the race together.
Not a very fast time for someone who was supposedly quite athletic and had aspirations for being in the Olympics at one time. Of course, that is around the time NC babies were being born, too. So, she may have not been putting in much running time back then.
Another thing that bothers me is that she supposedly left the house for her run instead of her usual drive to the coffee shop, park, and then start her run from there.
Also , no one saw her out running that morning.
No one.
One Heather stated while being interviewed that she saw NC out running all the time.
So , on a Saturday morning, when lots of people are out running , walking, biking, etc. someone would have seen her, IMO.
Okay, I have read all the affidavits and I have followed all the posts here so I know that I am kinda going "backwards" by bringing this up again. BUT........to me this is where it all started. BC says that NC left the house on a run. IMO , she did not.
Oh, one more thought.
Who can get up and go running after being out late at a party the night before?
Especially if she had some wine, or other alcohol to drink at the party.
Very dehydrating!
Okay, that's it. That's my story and I am sticking to it. :)

Hello and welcome runnermom !

Good thoughts especially if Nancy didn't return home til midnight and as BC says she likes wine. Not impossible I suppose but. Dunno about this jogging story at all to be honest. Thanks for the insight.

I kind of think the jogging story is a load and I have to wonder why BC declares in his affidavit that Nancy went running with Carrie, lines 171- 175, but yet in lines 181 - 183 it becomes clear that the last place BC went to look in his driving around looking for Nancy was to Carrie's residence. This doesn't make sense to me - seems like that should have been the first place to look actually.

I also wonder how her cell phone ended up in her car...

raisincharlie
07-26-2008, 11:25 PM
Hi Bren Bren or runnermomof5:

Don't be discouraged if people don't respond to you. That happens to me all the time. Just keep posting and you'll get someone's attention.

I too don't believe she went out jogging that morning. For all the reasons you said, PLUS,........how could she go on a 2 hour jog when she was due to be painting at 8:00, ONE HOUR from when she was to alleged to have left the house? Doesn't make sense, IMO.

Also, about her time. Remember, she was injurred, which was why she was no longer 'seriously' running. PLUS, she did have chrones disease, which,from what I've read, can be very hard on your body.

Nice post runnermomof5,
:)
fran

Maybe Brad didn't know Nancy was supposed to be at Jessica's :bang:

Bob&Bob
07-26-2008, 11:25 PM
Hey Guys!
I posted on the Nancy the Jogger link when Pepper set it up. Then, Pepper got canned. So I am going to repeat some of my thoughts here.
Cause I am starting to feel like Bob. Sometimes I wonder, does anyone out there see me? LOL
Except my name is Brenda.
So, instead of "Bob Bob" , I guess you can call me "Bren Bren".
Anyway, as a long time runner, I immediately saw several red flags with BC story about NC going for a run at 7 and not returning.
Okay.
Briefly:
NC was in training for a half marathon with her friend Jessica A.
Saturday and Sunday mornings are prime mornings for what serious runners call "long runs". Usually shorter distance runs, say 3-4 miles, are done during the week and the longer runs of training are done on the weekends. Okay, IMO, Nancy would not have gone out on a run on Saturday without Jessica.
Also, since they were training together, they most likely were following a training schedule which would lead up to the half marathon. I think Jessica even mentioned this, that she and NC had discussed all their training plans.
Someone posted the finishing time for NC and HM from a 5K race a few years ago. Since they had the same finishing time, they most likely ran the race together.
Not a very fast time for someone who was supposedly quite athletic and had aspirations for being in the Olympics at one time. Of course, that is around the time NC babies were being born, too. So, she may have not been putting in much running time back then.
Another thing that bothers me is that she supposedly left the house for her run instead of her usual drive to the coffee shop, park, and then start her run from there.
Also , no one saw her out running that morning.
No one.
One Heather stated while being interviewed that she saw NC out running all the time.
So , on a Saturday morning, when lots of people are out running , walking, biking, etc. someone would have seen her, IMO.
Okay, I have read all the affidavits and I have followed all the posts here so I know that I am kinda going "backwards" by bringing this up again. BUT........to me this is where it all started. BC says that NC left the house on a run. IMO , she did not.
Oh, one more thought.
Who can get up and go running after being out late at a party the night before?
Especially if she had some wine, or other alcohol to drink at the party.
Very dehydrating!
Okay, that's it. That's my story and I am sticking to it. :)

What happened to Pepper?

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 11:35 PM
Pepper apparently was banned.
I suppose you need to ask the mod if you need a forwarding address.

Bob&Bob
07-26-2008, 11:36 PM
Why would I need a forwarding address?

Just the Fax
07-26-2008, 11:39 PM
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/alive695/site.jpg

Like with most murders, Brad's computer should be very interesting to the cops.
Wonder if he used 'Google earth' shortly before the murder ?
Though the road is now paved, it still depicts the only area within 2 miles of his house that was hidden and undeveloped.

Of all areas around the home, convenient for the killer to know there was an area 1.1 miles in the very back of an established subdivision where nobody would see him dump the body.....Hmmm

Bob&Bob
07-26-2008, 11:43 PM
Thanks for the answer. I really appreciate it.

fran
07-26-2008, 11:58 PM
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/alive695/site.jpg

Like with most murders, Brad's computer should be very interesting to the cops.
Wonder if he used 'Google earth' shortly before the murder ?
Though the road is now paved, it still depicts the only area within 2 miles of his house that was hidden and undeveloped.

Of all areas around the home, convenient for the killer to know there was an area 1.1 miles in the very back of an established subdivision where nobody would see him dump the body.....Hmmm

What a coincidence! The only place undeveloped and no witness. Yeah, I'm sure Nancy would run there. NOT.

JMHO
fran

jilly
07-26-2008, 11:59 PM
testing testing

:rotfl:You're a hoot Bob&Bob! Why don't you tell us a little about yourself!:)

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 12:09 AM
I haven't been jogging lately.

ROFL

Bad things happen when you go jogging...

jilly
07-27-2008, 12:09 AM
I haven't been jogging lately.

LOL - well that was certainly a "little"! Thanks for that! hehe.

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 12:51 AM
Of all areas around the home, convenient for the killer to know there was an area 1.1 miles in the very back of an established subdivision where nobody would see him dump the bodyYES! Especially since I'm certain that NC was not killed in the spot in which she was found. Although LE has not publicly released this info, I believe it will come to light that the area she was found was just the 'dump' site.

And if that's true, as I suspect it is, the question then becomes, from exactly WHERE was she "kidnapped" during "her run," and where was she killed, if she was "jogging?"

wirehair
07-27-2008, 12:56 AM
OOPs!! I hit the wrong button. Large letters at the top--Information Needed for Cooper Murder Investigation. Then there is a large picture of NC. Under the picture there is the physical description and age. Next, it tells what she was last wearing. The flyer then tells what her route was thought to be in Lochmere Lake and Regency Park areas. Under this is the CrimeStoppers Logo with telephone number. Last on the page is the contact number and person at the CPD. The LE just asked me if I saw anything, no matter how small if I was out that morning. I told him I was not. I also told him that I hope the investigators checked the nooks and crannies of all of his watches because I don't think he would have scrubbed his expensive watches under the water. He said he would pass that on. If you notice in the terrific pictures that were posted on the previous page, when you compare the close up in the first picture to the second that shows where the body was dumped, one can see that the lay of the land drops off between the edge of the road and the silt fence. That's the way it appears to me...just enough that you would have to walk closer to the edge of the road to see her. I still haven't been down that road yet to see for myself. I don't want to go alone.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 12:57 AM
YES! Especially since I'm certain that NC was not killed in the spot in which she was found. Although LE has not publicly released this info, I believe it will come to light that the area she was found was just the 'dump' site.

And if that's true, as I suspect it is, the question then becomes, from exactly WHERE was she "kidnapped" during "her run," and where was she killed, if she was "jogging?"


If you look at post 4 in the maps thread - it shows the search area. As I recall this area was established based on information of where Nancy normally ran. They got close but never crossed Holly Springs Road. So yeah, it looks like the location was indeed a dump site.

ETA in looking in the search area it seems to me observant runners could well know there was nothing over there- no occupied homes or developments.

wirehair
07-27-2008, 12:59 AM
The other part of my first post didn't make it I see. I hit the wrong button. I left home after my first post, came home and couldn't get the site to work, left again tonight so when I got home I had to catch up before I could post about the flyer.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 01:03 AM
OOPs!! I hit the wrong button. Large letters at the top--Information Needed for Cooper Murder Investigation. Then there is a large picture of NC. Under the picture there is the physical description and age. Next, it tells what she was last wearing. The flyer then tells what her route was thought to be in Lochmere Lake and Regency Park areas. Under this is the CrimeStoppers Logo with telephone number. Last on the page is the contact number and person at the CPD. The LE just asked me if I saw anything, no matter how small if I was out that morning. I told him I was not. I also told him that I hope the investigators checked the nooks and crannies of all of his watches because I don't think he would have scrubbed his expensive watches under the water. He said he would pass that on. If you notice in the terrific pictures that were posted on the previous page, when you compare the close up in the first picture to the second that shows where the body was dumped, one can see that the lay of the land drops off between the edge of the road and the silt fence. That's the way it appears to me...just enough that you would have to walk closer to the edge of the road to see her. I still haven't been down that road yet to see for myself. I don't want to go alone.

Thanks very much for that information about the fliers. Not being from the area - Holly Springs Road runs pretty much north to south yes ? The body was found east and the search area was primarily to the west of Holly Springs Road - yes ? Is it clear to you if Nancy was found actually in the water or above the silt fence closer to the turn around? Sorry for so many questions !

I don't think you should go alone.

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 01:03 AM
I still haven't been down that road yet to see for myself. I don't want to go alone.

I want to see this area and road too, but I don't want to go alone either. Even with my dog as company I think it would still freak me out. I'm about 5 mi away, closer to the Bond Park area.

BTW, VERY GOOD idea for LE to check the watches!

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 01:05 AM
I need to go back and look at the pixs again. What I'm missing is more of a wide/establishing shot but with a body outline in it. I'm still having some trouble picturing the exact layout.

Busylady
07-27-2008, 01:12 AM
I guess I am confused by the pictures showing the red outline, the 911 call states she was in water, the pictures of LE at the scene show them around the water. In addition, i think its busier than people think, a man walking his dog found the body, there is another picture of a man jogging that shows the location Nancy was found.

If she wasnt jogging and killed there, it would be very easy for a vehicle to back up on the paved road and place her there, not much distance between the paved road and the body location from what I understand.

wirehair
07-27-2008, 01:16 AM
All of us locals need to meet somewhere and follow each other down there. RaisinCharlie: You are correct about the north,south,east, and west business. I didn't appear from the pictures that she could not have been in the water. We had a big rain and storm on that Friday night but I doubt that the water in the basin would have gotten that hight. I have a large dog too; but he's too young to predict how he would react if there was any trouble. I have never seen anyone running down Holly Springs Road. The shoulder is terrible in that area and there's a lot of traffic. I haven't see many run on Ten Ten Road or Kildaire Farm Road either.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 01:23 AM
All of us locals need to meet somewhere and follow each other down there. RaisinCharlie: You are correct about the north,south,east, and west business. I didn't appear from the pictures that she could not have been in the water. We had a big rain and storm on that Friday night but I doubt that the water in the basin would have gotten that hight. I have a large dog too; but he's too young to predict how he would react if there was any trouble. I have never seen anyone running down Holly Springs Road. The shoulder is terrible in that area and there's a lot of traffic. I haven't see many run on Ten Ten Road or Kildaire Farm Road either.

Thanks ! The reason I asked about location was I recalled in one of the photo gallerys (either WRAL or the N & O) that during the search of the Cooper residence there were several photos of LE looking in the wheel wells and under the BMW Suv - kind of made me think there were tire tracks at the scene or lots of debris on the cul de sac roadway - can't think of any other reason they would be doing such an inspection.

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 01:26 AM
All of us locals need to meet somewhere and follow each other down there.

Count me in anytime!

wirehair
07-27-2008, 02:07 AM
Maybe some silt from the sholders washed onto the pavement after the rain Friday night.

carolinalady
07-27-2008, 07:35 AM
I thought the body was found in the area where the white tarp is. I just guessed that was there to preserve any evidence (since it was raining on the day she was found).

So, is the pic w/ the body outline/location one released by LE?

ETA link to picture from media w/ LE standing where body was recoved: http://www.wral.com/news/local/image/3210731/. This is why I thought she was found in the area of the white tarp.

carolinalady
07-27-2008, 07:57 AM
Hey Guys!
I posted on the Nancy the Jogger link when Pepper set it up. Then, Pepper got canned. So I am going to repeat some of my thoughts here.
Cause I am starting to feel like Bob. Sometimes I wonder, does anyone out there see me? LOL
Except my name is Brenda.
So, instead of "Bob Bob" , I guess you can call me "Bren Bren".
Anyway, as a long time runner, I immediately saw several red flags with BC story about NC going for a run at 7 and not returning.
Okay.
Briefly:
NC was in training for a half marathon with her friend Jessica A.
Saturday and Sunday mornings are prime mornings for what serious runners call "long runs". Usually shorter distance runs, say 3-4 miles, are done during the week and the longer runs of training are done on the weekends. Okay, IMO, Nancy would not have gone out on a run on Saturday without Jessica.
Also, since they were training together, they most likely were following a training schedule which would lead up to the half marathon. I think Jessica even mentioned this, that she and NC had discussed all their training plans.
Someone posted the finishing time for NC and HM from a 5K race a few years ago. Since they had the same finishing time, they most likely ran the race together.
Not a very fast time for someone who was supposedly quite athletic and had aspirations for being in the Olympics at one time. Of course, that is around the time NC babies were being born, too. So, she may have not been putting in much running time back then.
Another thing that bothers me is that she supposedly left the house for her run instead of her usual drive to the coffee shop, park, and then start her run from there.
Also , no one saw her out running that morning.
No one.
One Heather stated while being interviewed that she saw NC out running all the time.
So , on a Saturday morning, when lots of people are out running , walking, biking, etc. someone would have seen her, IMO.
Okay, I have read all the affidavits and I have followed all the posts here so I know that I am kinda going "backwards" by bringing this up again. BUT........to me this is where it all started. BC says that NC left the house on a run. IMO , she did not.
Oh, one more thought.
Who can get up and go running after being out late at a party the night before?
Especially if she had some wine, or other alcohol to drink at the party.
Very dehydrating!
Okay, that's it. That's my story and I am sticking to it. :)

Welcome!

I agree that drinking alcohol is very dehydrating. However, to me that is just not a reason to assume she did not run. Neither is being out until midnight. I know lots of people who just plain need less sleep than I do. Also, we have yet to see any information about how much she drank. She might have had 1 glass or 2 and she might have had water between. We just don't know. BTW, I regularly run and exercise in the early morning hours after an evening when I've had a drink or two. SO, it is definitely doable.

I would think that someone should have seen her out and about though. On my runs around that same time (in the Raleigh area not Lochmere/Cary), traffic is sparse (in comparison of a weekday), but I can't think of a single time when I didn't see a person/car while out and about. IF someone did see her, I hope they do come forward.

As for her times in the previous race being a non-competitive time, I agree. Perhaps she wasn't in top form, perhaps her "friend" wasn't in top shape and she was being a good running partner and sticking with her.

I know that her friends and family have to be her voice since Nancy is no longer here. However, I still have not made up my mind about BC's involvement. I really want to see how some of his statements check out. Plus I'd like to hear the COD and see what was seized in the searches.

MoonFlwr
07-27-2008, 08:09 AM
CarolinaLady

I agree. My brother is a die-hard runner when he is in training and he will get up to run, no matter what alcohol he consumed the night before or how late he went to bed! (He's nuts! :D )

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 09:23 AM
I guess I am confused by the pictures showing the red outline, the 911 call states she was in water, the pictures of LE at the scene show them around the water. In addition, i think its busier than people think, a man walking his dog found the body, there is another picture of a man jogging that shows the location Nancy was found.

If she wasnt jogging and killed there, it would be very easy for a vehicle to back up on the paved road and place her there, not much distance between the paved road and the body location from what I understand.

I don't believe that red outline was any work of LE to be honest. The July 14th press conference of the Cary Chief clearly indicates the body was in the drainage area. Additionally if you listen to the 911 call of the man who found the body, he states it was down an embankment and also that the only reason he noticed it was because of the vultures - not because it was out in the open. Taking those things into account I find it very unlikely that the photograph referenced is the actual location of the body when initially found nor done by LE.

http://www.wral.com/news/video/3211708/

OtisCampbell
07-27-2008, 09:44 AM
My impression was that the white sheet was placed there to aid in the removal of the body from the water. This would help in preventing any evidence from being compromised.

It wouldn't make a lot of sense to take the body to this secluded area then lay it on the edge of a pretty steep embankment.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 09:49 AM
I thought the body was found in the area where the white tarp is. I just guessed that was there to preserve any evidence (since it was raining on the day she was found).

So, is the pic w/ the body outline/location one released by LE?

ETA link to picture from media w/ LE standing where body was recoved: http://www.wral.com/news/local/image/3210731/. This is why I thought she was found in the area of the white tarp.


The white "tarp" was not placed by the cops as a similar one is on other storm basin's on the other 2-3 undeveloped cul de sacs

I outlined the body in 'red' when I posted the pic.
There were 2 bouquets of flowers specifically in that spot, so there is a good chance it was placed by someone that knew for sure.

Sheriff Harrison did say the body was found just off the road and not in the water. Like wirehair noticed, the spot is recessed from the road and shoulder grade so a body would not be obvious if one drove in the cul-de-sac and turned around. The walker said he went over there because he saw vultures circling overhead. It would have also been close enough to the road (10') that his dog could 'sniff' if he was tethered to a retractable leash. Also, it was close enough where a strong man could basically 'toss' her body without stepping on the shoulder , leaving shoe impressions.

There was no debris or dirt in the road, so I am unsure why the cops inspected his tires....unless there were tire impressions on the immediate shoulder (I think he was smarter than that).

fran
07-27-2008, 10:03 AM
There was no debris or dirt in the road, so I am unsure why the cops inspected his tires....unless there were tire impressions on the immediate shoulder (I think he was smarter than that).

A wise person once said on our forum, 'there's no school for committing murder.' or something like that.

Don't be so sure the killer was too smart to drive onto the immediate shoulder.

This same wise person said the 'most difficult part of a murder for a perp, is, what? to do with the body.'

JMHO
fran

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 10:12 AM
A wise person once said on our forum, 'there's no school for committing murder.' or something like that.

Don't be so sure the killer was too smart to drive onto the immediate shoulder.

This same wise person said the 'most difficult part of a murder for a perp, is, what? to do with the body.'

JMHO
fran

Very true...that's why we see so many 'how to' google searches on many killer's computer hard drives.

Yes, disposing of the body is usually a big challenge. W/O an elaborate scheme to destroy or bury it, a body is often staged to make the death appear it was actually something it was not (accident, suicide, sex assault)

Because of Brad's burning desire for the ME to release the autopsy, something tells me she might have been found with her jogging shorts torn away and there was evidence of vaginal bruising and tearing.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 10:37 AM
Refresher link:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/3210710/


ETA - I suspect the white tarps were laid by the developer for erosion control, not by LE.

CARYISHOME
07-27-2008, 10:41 AM
There was no debris or dirt in the road, so I am unsure why the cops inspected his tires....unless there were tire impressions on the immediate shoulder (I think he was smarter than that).


My husband and I went there last weekend. We had to park our car because there was sherriff's tape across the road that goes off to the right from Fielding Dr. as you're facing the end of Fielding. Sorry, I don't know the name of that road. As we walked I noted there was a lot of dirt and mud (it rained last weekend) on the road. For those of you who aren't from around here we have mostly clay-like dirt, not the typical dirt you might expect.

Construction pallets and vehicles are stored along side of that road. With the construction traffic and LE traffic there were a lot of tire tracks that could be seen.

So, to get to the dump site you would have to go through all that dirt. I don't recall what the weather was that Friday night, but the dirt may have been dry that night. If so, I am not sure if enough would have stuck to the tires after the trip home and around.

You're right, Just the Fax, the cul-de-sac where she was found is clean.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 10:43 AM
Refresher link:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/3210710/


ETA - I suspect the white tarps were laid by the developer for erosion control, not by LE.


Yes, as I said all the other storm drains on the other roads had a similar white tarp.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 10:48 AM
My husband and I went there last weekend. We had to park our car because there was sherriff's tape across the road that goes off to the right from Fielding Dr. as you're facing the end of Fielding. Sorry, I don't know the name of that road. As we walked I noted there was a lot of dirt and mud (it rained last weekend) on the road. For those of you who aren't from around here we have mostly clay-like dirt, not the typical dirt you might expect.

Construction pallets and vehicles are stored along side of that road. With the construction traffic and LE traffic there were a lot of tire tracks that could be seen.

So, to get to the dump site you would have to go through all that dirt. I don't recall what the weather was that Friday night, but the dirt may have been dry that night. If so, I am not sure if enough would have stuck to the tires after the trip home and around.

You're right, Just the Fax, the cul-de-sac where she was found is clean.


Thanks CARYISHOME, I do now recall an area before the turn into the actual cul de sac that was covered with red clay.
Unfortunelly, it rained very hard before the body was found so any impressions left Saturday am would likely be washed away as mud.:mad:

allboys
07-27-2008, 10:55 AM
My husband and I went there last weekend. We had to park our car because there was sherriff's tape across the road that goes off to the right from Fielding Dr. as you're facing the end of Fielding. Sorry, I don't know the name of that road. As we walked I noted there was a lot of dirt and mud (it rained last weekend) on the road. For those of you who aren't from around here we have mostly clay-like dirt, not the typical dirt you might expect.

Construction pallets and vehicles are stored along side of that road. With the construction traffic and LE traffic there were a lot of tire tracks that could be seen.

So, to get to the dump site you would have to go through all that dirt. I don't recall what the weather was that Friday night, but the dirt may have been dry that night. If so, I am not sure if enough would have stuck to the tires after the trip home and around.




You're right, Just the Fax, the cul-de-sac where she was found is clean.


We went to the pool that Friday night, so I remember it was a nice night. However, it did rain on Monday (before her body was found), so I wonder if that would have worn away any tire impressions, foot prints etc.

carolinalady
07-27-2008, 11:12 AM
Yes, as I said all the other storm drains on the other roads had a similar white tarp.

Thanks for that info!

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 11:20 AM
We went to the pool that Friday night, so I remember it was a nice night. However, it did rain on Monday (before her body was found), so I wonder if that would have worn away any tire impressions, foot prints etc.

If nothing else the rain probably was sufficeint enough to distort tracks and footprints to the point they may have been unusable. Possible the only tracks of use were from the man who found her body.

fran
07-27-2008, 11:32 AM
Very true...that's why we see so many 'how to' google searches on many killer's computer hard drives.

Yes, disposing of the body is usually a big challenge. W/O an elaborate scheme to destroy or bury it, a body is often staged to make the death appear it was actually something it was not (accident, suicide, sex assault)

Because of Brad's burning desire for the ME to release the autopsy, something tells me she might have been found with her jogging shorts torn away and there was evidence of vaginal bruising and tearing.

I will be SURPRISED if her body shows signs of a sexual assault.:eek:

OTOH, IF she was assaulted, I hope there is dna *evidence*.

Until we learn IF there was a *sexual assault*, for me anyway, I will most likely continue to look at the *usual suspect* as the perp. I know it may sound to many that I'm just not being fair and have tunnel vision, but I really don't.

Whenever a new case such as this comes up, I look from the inside out. Meaning, for me, starting with the last person to be with the victim. Quite often, I've found, it's difficult to get past that point. I still continue to look at 'others,' but the road generally keeps leading back to the last person that was with the victim. :(

Seriously, I don't want it to be him (ie Brad in this case). It would be better for ALL involved IF it were someone else. Until we have more information, I'm stuck on 'the usual suspect.'

Believe me, this story gets really, really old after you've seen enough of them. It's like Groundhog day. The difference is, Groundhog day had a happy ending. No matter who the perp ends up being, there are no winners here. A young and sweet woman, mother, daughter, friend, wife, lost her life needlessly. That steet is littered with victims of this crime.

So tragic, any way you look at it. :(

JMHO
fran

PS...I know the husband is upset that he's being looked at as the perp. That's understandable. But as his lawyer has most likely explained, that's the way this game is. IF he didn't do this crime, he doesn't need to worry now, does he? So he should just cooperate and act like the grieving husband he portends to be. Get over it. This isn't about him. He's not the main victim here, Nancy is. He should want LE to catch her killer and if it means looking at him, help them so they can get over it and move on to catch the REAL killer....fran

PPS.....Brad needs to also, STOP trying to trash the VICTIM'S good name and reputation. It does NOT make him look less guilty. As a matter of fact, it has the opposite effect, IMHO........:mad:........fran

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 11:40 AM
I will be SURPRISED if her body shows signs of a sexual assault.:eek:

OTOH, IF she was assaulted, I hope there is dna *evidence*.

Until we learn IF there was a *sexual assault*, for me anyway, I will most likely continue to look at the *usual suspect* as the perp. I know it may sound to many that I'm just not being fair and have tunnel vision, but I really don't.


fran, I was saying **Brad** possibly staged it to appear as a sexual assault. (torn shorts, brusing and tearing, but obviously no DNA)That may be the reason he is so anxious for the autopsy to be released.
First of all, joggers in a quiet neighborhoods are not usually snatched off a running path, killed and then driven a few miles away to a remote, barren area, 1.1 miles in the very back of an established subdivision.

Jaydee0158
07-27-2008, 11:40 AM
Re the question about googling sites, could also be that LE won't find evidence on the computer b/c it's obviously one of the first things to be confiscated in investigations. But that's not to say that BC took the long, scenic tour home several days to get a complete lay of the land. Just a thought.

Would be nice to have someone scan a flyer and attach here.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 11:45 AM
<snip>


PPS.....Brad needs to also, STOP trying to trash the VICTIM'S good name and reputation. It does NOT make him look less guilty. As a matter of fact, it has the opposite effect, IMHO........:mad:........fran

Fran,

Were it not for the custody case I suspect this wouldn't have happened and we certainly would not be aware of it. The custody case pretty much put him in a corner and he came out swinging. I agree it was not a good thing to do, not the right thing to do, and in the end appears to have been very unwise.

Not condonning how this was handled, just saying there have been some most unusual circunstances surrounding it. And I also agree, on face value it makes him look petty and quite capable of being not so nice.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 11:46 AM
Re the question about googling sites, could also be that LE won't find evidence on the computer b/c it's obviously one of the first things to be confiscated in investigations. But that's not to say that BC took the long, scenic tour home several days to get a complete lay of the land. Just a thought.

Would be nice to have someone scan a flyer and attach here.

I just wonder how the killer knew there was an completely hidden and empty cul-de-sac 1.1 miles in the very back of a nondescript subdivision ?

This area is not a through street, so anyone going back there would have to have prior knowledge that it was isolated.

carolinalady
07-27-2008, 11:49 AM
PPS.....Brad needs to also, STOP trying to trash the VICTIM'S good name and reputation. It does NOT make him look less guilty. As a matter of fact, it has the opposite effect, IMHO........:mad:........fran

Fran, I certainly respect your opinion. However, put yourself in BC's shoes IF he did not do it. He has been trashed and he is concerned he is going to lose custody of his children FOREVER. After reading the affidavits, you see that many of her friend's statements are "Nancy told me" and not directly witnessing the behavior. He is presenting his side of things. I'll state this again, he has plenty in his affidavits that could be proved true or false (looking at signatures on CC receipts, phone calls, emails, etc.).

You're definitely right, Nancy is the true victim here. She's the one who is dead and cannot stand here to defend herself against these statements. However, the statements of her friends have trashed him and he IS here to be able to defend himself.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 11:55 AM
Does anyone recall a photo or video of Brad after the murder wearing short sleeves ? It was mid 90's and humid most of the week, so I am very suspicious of his long sleeve shirt he was seen in. Unless you are dressing for business, it is rare to see a man wearing long sleeves in mid July.

There was a rumor he was covering scratches on his arms.
If that is true, the lab is likely processing DNA evidence found on Nancy's fingernails at autopsy.

Jaydee0158
07-27-2008, 12:04 PM
I just wonder how the killer knew there was an completely hidden and empty cul-de-sac 1.1 miles in the very back of a nondescript subdivision ?

This area is not a through street, so anyone going back there would have to have prior knowledge that it was isolated.

I live in a area where there is a lot of new construction, although there has been a slow down of late. From time to time, we, as do others, drive through to see what is going around our community.

CARYISHOME
07-27-2008, 12:04 PM
I just wonder how the killer knew there was an completely hidden and empty cul-de-sac 1.1 miles in the very back of a nondescript subdivision ?

This area is not a through street, so anyone going back there would have to have prior knowledge that it was isolated.

I often drive around my area to explore new neighborhoods, walk through new houses being built, etc. Perhaps he went in there while looking for a new place to live?

I can understand how he would know - Nancy probably knew it, too.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 12:05 PM
Re the question about googling sites, could also be that LE won't find evidence on the computer b/c it's obviously one of the first things to be confiscated in investigations. But that's not to say that BC took the long, scenic tour home several days to get a complete lay of the land. Just a thought.

Would be nice to have someone scan a flyer and attach here.

Here is the flier:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/23/3257376/Nancy_Cooper_flier.pdf

will post in Media links as well

snowshuze
07-27-2008, 12:09 PM
Here is the flier:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/23/3257376/Nancy_Cooper_flier.pdf

will post in Media links as well
Okie dokey. That confirms what she was wearing.
Thanks, raisin. :)

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 12:10 PM
I often drive around my area to explore new neighborhoods, walk through new houses being built, etc. Perhaps he went in there while looking for a new place to live?

I can understand how he would know - Nancy probably knew it, too.


Post 4 in the Maps thread here provides a review of the search area which was based on routes Nancy was known to have run. Looking at that I would suspect that most runners over that area would have been aware of the area across Holly Springs road. It is quite possible that Brad also ran and rode a bike in many of those areas which would most likely also make him aware. We also know that some people walk their dogs in that area. I recall a report by Amanda Lamb showing this area and a jogger ran through the background of the shot. It does not appear to be an unknown area.

fran
07-27-2008, 12:10 PM
Fran, I certainly respect your opinion. However, put yourself in BC's shoes IF he did not do it. He has been trashed and he is concerned he is going to lose custody of his children FOREVER. After reading the affidavits, you see that many of her friend's statements are "Nancy told me" and not directly witnessing the behavior. He is presenting his side of things. I'll state this again, he has plenty in his affidavits that could be proved true or false (looking at signatures on CC receipts, phone calls, emails, etc.).

You're definitely right, Nancy is the true victim here. She's the one who is dead and cannot stand here to defend herself against these statements. However, the statements of her friends have trashed him and he IS here to be able to defend himself.

I respect what you say as well carolinalady. But you see, trashing the memory of his poor dead wife is NOT the answer in how to defend ones-self. After you've seen enough of these cases, you'll see what I mean.

An innocent spouse or loved one, does NOT speak ill of the victim. They get in, sit down, and shut up! AND are as cooperative with LE as possible behind the scenes (so to speak). Why? Because they KNOW they're INNOCENT and it will be proven in the END.

I've seen several cases here on Websleuths, very high profile, where some Websleuthers suspected the family or friends. One's that come to my mind, I looked at the family but couldn't see the connection. They were, family and friends, found out to NOT be connected to the crime at all and the websleuthers who suspected them and discussed it, were very apologetic at the end. (oh, btw, I personally did NOT suspect them and never said I did either)

I do NOT always say it's the husband. Believe me, I have to see some evidence, to me, that points that way. If you look at my posts when this case first began, I did NOT right away believe he did it, or I was hesitant to call the 'usual suspect.' But we've learned much more that points me in that direction.

IF he proves to be innocent, I'll be the FIRST to apologize for suspecting him. I've only had to do it once before. I'd watched a case for days and wasn't quite sure. But one day I decided he 'most likely was involved,' and the very next day the truth came out and he was majorally innocent. The moment I learned what happened, I came to Websleuths and apologized for my mistake. I'll do that here, IF I'm wrong.

Brad needs to realize that he IS the first person EVERYONE would look at for this crime. IF he did NOT do it, he doesn't need to worry because LE will learn that as well. But until then, he's on the 'short list.' Like I said, that's how this is played. He just needs to get over it and he'll get what he deserves. Nancy will get what she deserves. Isn't that what he wants as well?

Justice.

JMHO
fran

Jaydee0158
07-27-2008, 12:12 PM
Here is the flier:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/23/3257376/Nancy_Cooper_flier.pdf

will post in Media links as well

Thanks! Question - would the CPD put the description BC gave to the investigators or the actual clothing found on NC?

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 12:13 PM
I often drive around my area to explore new neighborhoods, walk through new houses being built, etc. Perhaps he went in there while looking for a new place to live?

I can understand how he would know - Nancy probably knew it, too.

Those new homes started at $500,000 per the sign.
With their financial predicament, I doubt either one was looking at 'stepping up' to a more expensive home....but who knows ?

You really need to drive on Holly Springs and notice that established subdivision. I just think it would be odd for a 'man' to drive in there to 'look' at new homes being built.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 12:14 PM
Okie dokey. That confirms what she was wearing.
Thanks, raisin. :)

You are welcome. One thing kind of bugs me about that flier however. No color for the t-shirt or shorts but the running shoes are described as light blue...

snowshuze
07-27-2008, 12:16 PM
You are welcome. One thing kind of bugs me about that flier however. No color for the t-shirt or shorts but the running shoes are described as light blue...
"Confirming" type information?

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 12:16 PM
Thanks! Question - would the CPD put the description BC gave to the investigators or the actual clothing found on NC?


I doubt the cops would mislead potential witnesses with incorrect clothing info.

She must have been found with the running clothes described....not surprising at all.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 12:16 PM
Thanks! Question - would the CPD put the description BC gave to the investigators or the actual clothing found on NC?

Bet you have the same questions I do about that flier. I would think CPD would give as much detail as they were given - i.e color of shirt and shorts might be helpful. But it is also possible, I suppose, those details were held back in the event someone claimed to have saw her. LE could ask the person colors and may be able to determine if it was a potential sighting or not.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 12:18 PM
"Confirming" type information?

Only reason I can think of or LE was not told.

fran
07-27-2008, 12:18 PM
Fran,

Were it not for the custody case I suspect this wouldn't have happened and we certainly would not be aware of it. The custody case pretty much put him in a corner and he came out swinging. I agree it was not a good thing to do, not the right thing to do, and in the end appears to have been very unwise.

Not condonning how this was handled, just saying there have been some most unusual circunstances surrounding it. And I also agree, on face value it makes him look petty and quite capable of being not so nice.

Hi charlie! :)

IMHO, he did NOT need to file all of those affidavits. For some unknown reason, his attorney decided this was a wise move. Unfortunate for Brad.

The attorney knew these would be public record. He KNEW this would get out in the public domain. He was playing to the people. Why?

ALL of that info COULD have been brought up in court, if necessary. Behind the judge's closed door. It was NOT necessary to YELL it from the highest steeple. NOT necessary at all.

Frankly, IMHO, it most likely made the judge SUSPICIOUS of the very one it was meant to make look innocent.

Just sayin'
fran

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 12:19 PM
You are welcome. One thing kind of bugs me about that flier however. No color for the t-shirt or shorts but the running shoes are described as light blue...

Good observation....she may have been found nude...hence the theory I put forth earlier

carolinalady
07-27-2008, 12:20 PM
I respect what you say as well carolinalady. But you see, trashing the memory of his poor dead wife is NOT the answer in how to defend ones-self. After you've seen enough of these cases, you'll see what I mean.

An innocent spouse or loved one, does NOT speak ill of the victim. They get in, sit down, and shut up! AND are as cooperative with LE as possible behind the scenes (so to speak). Why? Because they KNOW they're INNOCENT and it will be proven in the END.

I've seen several cases here on Websleuths, very high profile, where some Websleuthers suspected the family or friends. One's that come to my mind, I looked at the family but couldn't see the connection. They were, family and friends, found out to NOT be connected to the crime at all and the websleuthers who suspected them and discussed it, were very apologetic at the end. (oh, btw, I personally did NOT suspect them and never said I did either)

I do NOT always say it's the husband. Believe me, I have to see some evidence, to me, that points that way. If you look at my posts when this case first began, I did NOT right away believe he did it, or I was hesitant to call the 'usual suspect.' But we've learned much more that points me in that direction.

IF he proves to be innocent, I'll be the FIRST to apologize for suspecting him. I've only had to do it once before. I'd watched a case for days and wasn't quite sure. But one day I decided he 'most likely was involved,' and the very next day the truth came out and he was majorally innocent. The moment I learned what happened, I came to Websleuths and apologized for my mistake. I'll do that here, IF I'm wrong.

Brad needs to realize that he IS the first person EVERYONE would look at for this crime. IF he did NOT do it, he doesn't need to worry because LE will learn that as well. But until then, he's on the 'short list.' Like I said, that's how this is played. He just needs to get over it and he'll get what he deserves. Nancy will get what she deserves. Isn't that what he wants as well?

Justice.

JMHO
fran

Just so you know, I've seen LOTS of cases and am only new to this board. I just don't get the same immediate feeling about the case like I did Scott Peterson, Jason Young, Ann Miller, Dirk Greinender, Michael Peterson, etc. I'm not saying he's innocent and I'm not saying he's guilty at this point. I just am trying to look at it all.

I agree that trashing the victim isn't the best way. But again, this was in regards to the custody of his two kids. He knew his in-laws were playing hardball based on the way they went about the emergency custody hearing (knowing where he was, knowing who his lawyers were, having plans to meet him, cops already trailing him so he couldn't run w/ the kids, etc. etc. etc.). It didn't have to be done in that fashion. Who knows? Maybe they would've reached the same agreement they reached in the end and then we wouldn't have ever had to hear the bad stuff about Nancy.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 12:20 PM
Hi charlie! :)

IMHO, he did NOT need to file all of those affidavits. For some unknown reason, his attorney decided this was a wise move. Unfortunate for Brad.

The attorney knew these would be public record. He KNEW this would get out in the public domain. He was playing to the people. Why?

ALL of that info COULD have been brought up in court, if necessary. Behind the judge's closed door. It was NOT necessary to YELL it from the highest steeple. NOT necessary at all.

Frankly, IMHO, it most likely made the judge SUSPICIOUS of the very one it was meant to make look innocent.

Just sayin'
fran

Same could be said of the affidavits made on behalf of Nancy. Lawyers !

fran
07-27-2008, 12:25 PM
fran, I was saying **Brad** possibly staged it to appear as a sexual assault. (torn shorts, brusing and tearing, but obviously no DNA)That may be the reason he is so anxious for the autopsy to be released.
First of all, joggers in a quiet neighborhoods are not usually snatched off a running path, killed and then driven a few miles away to a remote, barren area, 1.1 miles in the very back of an established subdivision.

Ehhhh......I can read between the lines. I was talking between them too! ;)
THAT is why I mentioned 'dna.' ie what dna? Be curious IF she had the appearance of a 'sexual assault' and there's NO dna evidence of a third party.

Just sayin'
fran

PS....Gosh! I hope he hasn't been studying recent high profile cases!:eek:
Planting 3rd party dna? good grief! waiting, waiting, waiting......:waitasec:
nahhh.......he wouldn't be THAT smart in criminal behavior! But another idiot was but it was DISCOVERED by LE......fran

PPS......Let's hope, IF it is him, he didn't study this other case!!!!:confused:

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 12:26 PM
I hope the cops noticed which way her shoes were tied.
Remember helping your young kids tie their shoes ?

If they were placed and tied after her death, the 'direction' of the knot may be important evidence...

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 12:28 PM
Ehhhh......I can read between the lines. I was talking between them too! ;)
THAT is why I mentioned 'dna.' ie what dna? Be curious IF she had the appearance of a 'sexual assault' and there's NO dna evidence of a third party.

Just sayin'
fran





Not all sex assaults end with ejaculation or pubic hairs remaining on the victim....just sayin'

fran
07-27-2008, 12:30 PM
Same could be said of the affidavits made on behalf of Nancy. Lawyers !

True that!

;)
fran

fran
07-27-2008, 12:31 PM
Not all sex assaults end with ejaculation or pubic hairs remaining on the victim....just sayin'

Now, wouldn't that be CONVENIENT! ;)

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 12:33 PM
Now, wouldn't that be CONVENIENT! ;)

Like I said, there is a huge reason Brad and his attorney want that autopsy released.

fran
07-27-2008, 12:36 PM
Same could be said of the affidavits made on behalf of Nancy. Lawyers !

Thinking about this though, her dad is experienced in these types of cases, I'm fairly certain, seeing what his job was before. So he knows how this works. The deck was already stacked against the family getting custody, imo, so they NEEDED to play hardball.

IF Brad loved Nancy so much, he didn't NEED to reply in kind. He COULD have waited until the hearing. He thought it was more important that he get out anything derogatory about Nancy to EVERYONE rather than respecting her memory and pleading his case before no one, but the judge.

A tactical move, most likely encouraged by his lawyer. NOT the correct move though, IMO.

JMHO
fran

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 12:36 PM
I hope the cops noticed which way her shoes were tied.
Remember helping your young kids tie their shoes ?

If they were placed and tied after her death, the 'direction' of the knot may be important evidence...

I dunno about that, being left handed, I tie my own shoes different than the right handed members of my family.

RoughlyCollie
07-27-2008, 12:38 PM
Didn't the other idiot have help from an minor who acted as a co-conspirator?

It seems to me it would be very difficult to get another adult to conspire in this way to commit murder -- especially since it requires the cooperation of a third party, unwitting or not.

Respectfully,
RC


PS....Gosh! I hope he hasn't been studying recent high profile cases!:eek:
Planting 3rd party dna? good grief! waiting, waiting, waiting......:waitasec:
nahhh.......he wouldn't be THAT smart in criminal behavior! But another idiot was but it was DISCOVERED by LE......fran

PPS......Let's hope, IF it is him, he didn't study this other case!!!!:confused:

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 12:40 PM
I dunno about that, being left handed, I tie my own shoes different than the right handed members of my family.


But if both Nancy and Brad were right handed.....

One usually brings the loop over toward yourself, so the opposite pattern would exist if tieing from the opposite direction.

Being a runner and a spend thrift, she obviously had many pairs of shoes. I bet my closet has a pair or 2 with the laces tied, where I just 'pulled off' w/o unlacing

Obviously not a smoking gun, but interesting CE if true.

CARYISHOME
07-27-2008, 12:44 PM
Those new homes started at $500,000 per the sign.
With their financial predicament, I doubt either one was looking at 'stepping up' to a more expensive home....but who knows ?

You really need to drive on Holly Springs and notice that established subdivision. I just think it would be odd for a 'man' to drive in there to 'look' at new homes being built.

Agree. It would be unusual for a man to ride through there looking at houses by himself.

reddress58
07-27-2008, 12:46 PM
Those new homes started at $500,000 per the sign.
With their financial predicament, I doubt either one was looking at 'stepping up' to a more expensive home....but who knows ?

You really need to drive on Holly Springs and notice that established subdivision. I just think it would be odd for a 'man' to drive in there to 'look' at new homes being built.
Hi guys,

I'm new to this but have been reading for the past few days. I live one block from the Coopers and, as a runner, do the same route as NC. My close proximity and similar running habits obviously have made me sit up and think very deeply about this case.

I didn't know NC personally, but I HAVE seen her running; and because of her tall, slim figure, she definetely stands out. It's hard not to take a second glance. If she were running that Sat. morning, SOMEONE, I believe, would have noticed. Also, the place where she was found would NOT be a typical course to follow. As someone mentioned earlier, it would require one to get out on Holly Springs road from Cary Parkway for quite a distance before turning onto Fielding Dr. And, Holly Springs road is not condusive to running. It's quite busy regardless of time of day. Fielding Dr. leads to nowhere; and unless you live in the neighborhood and are a casual runner, there would be no reason to put it on a training route. (I, too, have trained for a 1/2 marathon)

Now here is some inside scoop: the Coopers were working with a builder the end of last year to build a house in a neighborhood off Hwy. 55 in WEST Cary...nowhere near Lochmere but much closer to BC's employment. The houses in this newer subdivision are well into the four, five, and six hundred thousand dollar range and higher. I am in RE and know the area well. From what I have gathered, they scraped the idea after returning from their December vacation up north apparently because they decided to separate, instead, at that time. So BC could afford a more expensive house and obviously wasn't as strapped as it looks. Maybe graduating soon from his MBA program was going to bring an increase in salary, therefore affording the newer digs.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 12:47 PM
Agree. It would be unusual for a man to ride through there looking at houses by himself.

On second thought, he knew in April they were going to have to sell the house for the divorce. Maybe he was out scouting for a new place to live ?

The $500,000 + is what makes it odd though.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 12:49 PM
Hi guys,

Now here is some inside scoop: the Coopers were working with a builder the end of last year to build a house in a neighborhood off Hwy. 55 in WEST Cary...nowhere near Lochmere but much closer to BC's employment. The houses in this newer subdivision are well into the four, five, and six hundred thousand dollar range and higher. I am in RE and know the area well. From what I have gathered, they scraped the idea after returning from their December vacation up north apparently because they decided to separate, instead, at that time. So BC could afford a more expensive house and obviously wasn't as strapped as it looks. Maybe graduating soon from his MBA program was going to bring an increase in salary, therefore affording the newer digs.

Welcome and please continue to post !

I doubt he could qualify for that size mortgage, considering $45k credit card debt, ect.
The MBA added to his certified Cisco designation would put his salary maybe at $110- $125K
That is not that much $ for a family of 4 with an relatively 'affluent' lifestyle when the spouse does not work.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 12:53 PM
Hi guys,

I'm new to this but have been reading for the past few days. I live one block from the Coopers and, as a runner, do the same route as NC. My close proximity and similar running habits obviously have made me sit up and think very deeply about this case.

I didn't know NC personally, but I HAVE seen her running; and because of her tall, slim figure, she definetely stands out. It's hard not to take a second glance. If she were running that Sat. morning, SOMEONE, I believe, would have noticed. Also, the place where she was found would NOT be a typical course to follow. As someone mentioned earlier, it would require one to get out on Holly Springs road from Cary Parkway for quite a distance before turning onto Fielding Dr. And, Holly Springs road is not condusive to running. It's quite busy regardless of time of day. Fielding Dr. leads to nowhere; and unless you live in the neighborhood and are a casual runner, there would be no reason to put it on a training route. (I, too, have trained for a 1/2 marathon)

Now here is some inside scoop: the Coopers were working with a builder the end of last year to build a house in a neighborhood off Hwy. 55 in WEST Cary...nowhere near Lochmere but much closer to BC's employment. The houses in this newer subdivision are well into the four, five, and six hundred thousand dollar range and higher. I am in RE and know the area well. From what I have gathered, they scraped the idea after returning from their December vacation up north apparently because they decided to separate, instead, at that time. So BC could afford a more expensive house and obviously wasn't as strapped as it looks. Maybe graduating soon from his MBA program was going to bring an increase in salary, therefore affording the newer digs.

Hi reddress58 !

Thanks for the information. It pretty well seems from your posts and others that Nancy's body had to have been transported to the location where she was found if she went jogging from home.

I'm a bit confused about this coffee shop - it has been said Nancy would go there and sometimes jog from there. I do not recall the name, perhaps you do - java - something. What routes are available from there if you know ?

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 01:02 PM
WELCOME reddress58!

I really appreciate your joining in and also giving us your perspective as a runner.

I'm in Cary too, though closer to Bond Park.

Oh and I'm not a runner (not by a longshot)!

reddress58
07-27-2008, 01:07 PM
Hi reddress58 !

Thanks for the information. It pretty well seems from your posts and others that Nancy's body had to have been transported to the location where she was found if she went jogging from home.

I'm a bit confused about this coffee shop - it has been said Nancy would go there and sometimes jog from there. I do not recall the name, perhaps you do - java - something. What routes are available from there if you know ?
Java Jive is at the OTHER end of Lochmere Drive from Holly Springs Rd. It is on the corner of Lochmere Dr. & Kildaire Farm Road. Although Kildaire Farm is busy, too; you can cross it and extend your run to the other side and continue along Lochmere Dr. There is also a path that runs along Kildaire Farm for quite a ways leading to another Lochmere section. This same path breaks off to the right, goes under a Kildaire Farm overpass and continues behind one neighoborhood and then into the woods of Ritter Park. The other end of this comes out into the Regency neighoborhood. This is the main runner's route that connects the two neighborhoods.

There was a rape along this path about 8 to 10 years ago of a woman runner. They caught the goon...she recognized him on TV from another rape in N. Raleigh. THAT would be the ONLY place I could think of where Nancy would be accousted while running. (well...not quite...there is an area around the Regency Lake that's pretty isolated, too.) Since the rape, I NEVER run through that section of the park alone. Thing is, the running path is quite a ways from any parking areas. The closest one I can think of is the parking lot at Ritter Park, but the perp would still have quite a ways to either carry her or make her walk to a car. When all this happened and before her body was found, I was hoping the search would go deeper and wider along this path. As soon as her body was discovered where it was, I was quite certain she wasn't running...there is no place convenient to get her to a car. We runners would be very leery of a car stopped in the road, so I cannot see her being accousted along the roadways.

Java Jive is a nice in between point of the Lochmere and Regency neighborhoods.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 01:14 PM
There was a rape along this path about 8 to 10 years ago of a woman runner. They caught the goon...she recognized him on TV from another rape in N. Raleigh. THAT would be the ONLY place I could think of where Nancy would be accousted while running. (well...not quite...there is an area around the Regency Lake that's pretty isolated, too.) Since the rape, I NEVER run through that section of the park alone. Thing is, the running path is quite a ways from any parking areas. The closest one I can think of is the parking lot at Ritter Park, but the perp would still have quite a ways to either carry her or make her walk to a car. When all this happened and before her body was found, I was hoping the search would go deeper and wider along this path. As soon as her body was discovered where it was, I was quite certain she wasn't running...there is no place convenient to get her to a car. We runners would be very leery of a car stopped in the road, so I cannot see her being accousted along the roadways.

Java Jive is a nice in between point of the Lochmere and Regency neighborhoods.

I do vaguely recall that rape you described years ago.
As is typical of those attacks, the perpetrator leaps out from hiding and rapes his victim very near by. If he were to kill her after the attack, it is propostrous to think he would carry the body to a car and then dump it a couple of miles away.

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 01:18 PM
One of the 'clues' I realized I hadn't given much thought to before is that Nancy's parents believe he did it. That much is obvious. Now usually the immediate family thinks 'oh he loved her so much no wayyyy' and then they learn from LE that their son-in-law is not quite who they thought he was. That happened in Laci's case, Lori Hacking's case and I'm sure in others.

So here we have Nancy's parents immediately cold toward BC and it's not, IMHO, because of the pending separation/divorce. They were told something that closed their hearts. I don't believe it's just a random thing where they are being mean and unfair. They truly believe BC did this crime.

And while that is NOT evidence in any way....it *is* a clue.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 01:23 PM
Brad would have been much smarter to dump Nancy's body in a known running area if he wanted it to appear she was attacked while jogging.

He obviously chose the remote site instead cause he feared being spotted by a runner driving around one of the parks or trails.

I hope the residents of that subdivision all realize the cooper's had a silver BMW X5

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 01:25 PM
One of the 'clues' I realized I hadn't given much thought to before is that Nancy's parents believe he did it. That much is obvious. Now usually the immediate family thinks 'oh he loved her so much no wayyyy' and then they learn from LE that their son-in-law is not quite who they thought he was. That happened in Laci's case, Lori Hacking's case and I'm sure in others.

So here we have Nancy's parents immediately cold toward BC and it's not, IMHO, because of the pending separation/divorce. They were told something that closed their hearts. I don't believe it's just a random thing where they are being mean and unfair. They truly believe BC did this crime.

And while that is NOT evidence in any way....it *is* a clue.

When Michelle Young was killed, it was an immediate **clue** that jason was the killer when I learned of Linda Fisher's feelings toward him.

reddress58
07-27-2008, 01:26 PM
I do vaguely recall that rape you described years ago.
As is typical of those attacks, the perpetrator leaps out from hiding and rapes his victim very near by. If he were to kill her after the attack, it is propostrous to think he would carry the body to a car and then dump it a couple of miles away.
Exactly! There is also a section at the far end of Regency Lake past the Amphitheatre that abutts to the parking area of a commercial building. (Regency Lake was on her typical route) Since it was Saturday morning, it could be possible to get her there and throw her into a car if no one was in the building to see. However, the perp would be taking a very long and indirect route to get her way over to Fielding Drive on the other side of Lochmere from that location. Just not reasonable. There is no direct route. The dump site would most likely be in the opposite direction. The park is the only direct connection of the two neighborhoods.

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 01:27 PM
He obviously chose the remote site instead cause he feared being spotted by a runner driving around one of the parks or trails.

Yes exactly! The odds of Nancy jogging down that deserted new subdivision seems rather rare. And I don't know how a stranger/rapist/attacker would get this woman in broad daylight (at 7am), attack her, and then transport her to the dump site. A 5'9" woman is going to make some noise! And at 7am it's daylight already. How many attackers are awake at 7am, waiting for a victim to happen by?
In CARY, no less.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 01:29 PM
I do vaguely recall that rape you described years ago.
As is typical of those attacks, the perpetrator leaps out from hiding and rapes his victim very near by. If he were to kill her after the attack, it is propostrous to think he would carry the body to a car and then dump it a couple of miles away.

It happens - think about Judith Nilan. Jogger abducted while running later found in a shed on a property belonging to a Sesame Street actor who had nothing to do with the abduction. He did transport her away from the abduction scene by car. It happens.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 01:30 PM
Java Jive is at the OTHER end of Lochmere Drive from Holly Springs Rd. It is on the corner of Lochmere Dr. & Kildaire Farm Road. Although Kildaire Farm is busy, too; you can cross it and extend your run to the other side and continue along Lochmere Dr. There is also a path that runs along Kildaire Farm for quite a ways leading to another Lochmere section. This same path breaks off to the right, goes under a Kildaire Farm overpass and continues behind one neighoborhood and then into the woods of Ritter Park. The other end of this comes out into the Regency neighoborhood. This is the main runner's route that connects the two neighborhoods.

There was a rape along this path about 8 to 10 years ago of a woman runner. They caught the goon...she recognized him on TV from another rape in N. Raleigh. THAT would be the ONLY place I could think of where Nancy would be accousted while running. (well...not quite...there is an area around the Regency Lake that's pretty isolated, too.) Since the rape, I NEVER run through that section of the park alone. Thing is, the running path is quite a ways from any parking areas. The closest one I can think of is the parking lot at Ritter Park, but the perp would still have quite a ways to either carry her or make her walk to a car. When all this happened and before her body was found, I was hoping the search would go deeper and wider along this path. As soon as her body was discovered where it was, I was quite certain she wasn't running...there is no place convenient to get her to a car. We runners would be very leery of a car stopped in the road, so I cannot see her being accousted along the roadways.

Java Jive is a nice in between point of the Lochmere and Regency neighborhoods.

Thanks !!!

reddress58
07-27-2008, 01:36 PM
It happens - think about Judith Nilan. Jogger abducted while running later found in a shed on a property belonging to a Sesame Street actor who had nothing to do with the abduction. He did transport her away from the abduction scene by car. It happens.
Anything can happen...but it would be highly risky for someone to try that in our neighborhood without being seen. It would seem more like a desarate, impulsive and random attack to take a chance like that. And the LE says it wasn't so.

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 01:43 PM
Yeah, you have to see just how sedate and SAFE Cary is to understand how unlikely that would be here. Not that it couldn't *ever* happen, but at 7am in THIS little safe community...doubtful. Truly.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 01:47 PM
It happens - think about Judith Nilan. Jogger abducted while running later found in a shed on a property belonging to a Sesame Street actor who had nothing to do with the abduction. He did transport her away from the abduction scene by car. It happens.

Sure anything can happen.
However, I think we can all agree that scenario would be extreamly rare.

wirehair
07-27-2008, 01:50 PM
Shoelaces: I'm sure her friends could tell you whether the loops laid horizontal or vertical. She could tie either way depending on who taught her and where they sat when they were teaching her to tie. I wonder if he knew anyone that lived in that neighborhood or if maybe one of the friends knew someone that was going to build down there....so he checked it out on his bike....I don't see bikes on Holly Springs Road either. I want to know what she was wearing Friday night and were the clothes hanging in the closet clean or did they smell sweaty from being outside. I'm sure her friends know what she wore that night.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 01:52 PM
Anything can happen...but it would be highly risky for someone to try that in our neighborhood without being seen. It would seem more like a desarate, impulsive and random attack to take a chance like that. And the LE says it wasn't so.

I'll take your word for that as I will be very surprised if no one saw Nancy if she was indeed jogging that morning. So far we don't know if anyone has gone to LE with that or not. Since LE is still handing out flyers it seems reasonable to assume they are still looking for anyone who saw Nancy and/or they are looking for someone who saw something along Fielding Road. Given the time and publicity, it seems to me such witnesses would have come forward by now, if they exist.

My point was that abductions do occur where someone will use a vehicle to transport a victim - even in broad daylight. Not saying it happened in this case, only that it is not unheard of.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 01:54 PM
Sure anything can happen.
However, I think we can all agree that scenario would be extreamly rare.

Rare is enough to avoid totaly ruling it out.

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 01:56 PM
The time of her disappearance is also what raises the 'hinky flag.'

I bet most crimes happen at night or at least before 5am...cover of darkness and all that.

I don't know how common it is for a crime ... esp. a kidnapping to occur at SEVEN AM on Saturday morning! Even thugs get sleepy at some point...I would think 7am would not be a time when many murderers would be out doing their thing.

Again, use your common sense here. 7am - 8am. Saturday morning. It's LIGHT outside. And it keeps getting lighter and busier.

Neighbors are nosy folks! Mine sure are. People look out their windows, watch others on the street, notice if someone runs by them or down their street if they're outside too.

SEVEN AM.

That time just sounds preposterous to me.

If Nancy had disappeared at night then maybe, yeah.

But at 7am in Cary?

Nope.

wirehair
07-27-2008, 01:57 PM
I really feel that someone drove to that cul de sac in the middle of the night while most people would be sound asleep. He would probably have to go after 2 am after the teens had to be home if they use that area for "parking"

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:02 PM
The time of her disappearance is also what raises the 'hinky flag.'

I bet most crimes happen at night or at least before 5am...cover of darkness and all that.

I don't know how common it is for a crime ... esp. a kidnapping to occur at SEVEN AM on Saturday morning! Even thugs get sleepy at some point...I would think 7am would not be a time when many murderers would be out doing their thing.

Again, use your common sense here. 7am - 8am. Saturday morning. It's LIGHT outside. And it keeps getting lighter and busier.

Neighbors are nosy folks! Mine sure are. People look out their windows, watch others on the street, notice if someone runs by them or down their street if they're outside too.

SEVEN AM.

That time just sounds preposterous to me.

If Nancy had disappeared at night then maybe, yeah.

But at 7am in Cary?

Nope.

He had to have an excuse to be seen leaving his home at 6 ish am.
That is why he was seen at the Harris teeter ...part of his obvious alibi in case he was spotted.

Assuming he killed her after she returned home that night, he must have thought it too risky for a neighbor to see the car leave at any hour before 6 am, when he had his excuse.

panthera
07-27-2008, 02:02 PM
Yes exactly! The odds of Nancy jogging down that deserted new subdivision seems rather rare. And I don't know how a stranger/rapist/attacker would get this woman in broad daylight (at 7am), attack her, and then transport her to the dump site. A 5'9" woman is going to make some noise! And at 7am it's daylight already. How many attackers are awake at 7am, waiting for a victim to happen by?
In CARY, no less.
Good afternoon! It's so nice to see the forum back up today. :) I completely agree with you ~ if Nancy had been attacked while she was out jogging I'd think someone would've heard screaming, she would've put up some kind of fight and so forth. Also I think it's extremely rare that he'd choose that hour of the morning. An hour earlier, maybe.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:05 PM
I really feel that someone drove to that cul de sac in the middle of the night while most people would be sound asleep. He would probably have to go after 2 am after the teens had to be home if they use that area for "parking"

I have a little trouble with that given Brad's profession and knowledge of VoIP. In his affidavits he claims Nancy called him at the store. He has to know that can be verified very easily or else he knows there is only one tower which would be recording both his cell phone and the call from the house, which is possible.

I have always wondered why Nancy's cell phone was in her car...

panthera
07-27-2008, 02:05 PM
He had to have an excuse to be seen leaving his home at 6 ish am.
That is why he was seen at the Harris teeter ...part of his obvious alibi in case he was spotted.

Assuming he killed her after she returned home that night, he must have thought it too risky for a neighbor to see the car leave at any hour before 6 am, when he had his excuse.
Yes I think so too, on both points. If anyone was up in the neighborhood during the night they could've seen his car leaving but the 6am trip to the store covered up for him going out.

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 02:05 PM
He had to have an excuse to be seen leaving his home at 6 ish am.
That is why he was seen at the Harris teeter ...part of his obvious alibi in case he was spotted.

Assuming he killed her after she returned home that night, he must have thought it too risky for a neighbor to see the car leave at any hour before 6 am, when he had his excuse.

Excellent point! It's 'early enough' so he still has some darkness on his side for dumping her body, but it's not so early that neighbors would be wondering what's going on.

panthera
07-27-2008, 02:07 PM
I have a little trouble with that given Brad's profession and knowledge of VoIP. In his affidavits he claims Nancy called him at the store. He has to know that can be verified very easily or else he knows there is only one tower which would be recording both his cell phone and the call from the house, which is possible.

I have always wondered why Nancy's cell phone was in her car...
I wonder if it's possible he had her cell phone with him and called his own phone from it? I agree it would all depend on how many towers there are and if it couldn't be distinguished exactly where the call to his phone came from ~ the house or the store?

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:09 PM
I think we can now discount the 4 am video rumor.
If Nancy came home at 12 am, that means her buds were still up on Friday night.
Way too risky to drive out of your drive in the wee hours...any witness to that would be the smoking gun.

jilly
07-27-2008, 02:09 PM
IF Brad loved Nancy so much, he didn't NEED to reply in kind. He COULD have waited until the hearing. He thought it was more important that he get out anything derogatory about Nancy to EVERYONE rather than respecting her memory and pleading his case before no one, but the judge.

A tactical move, most likely encouraged by his lawyer. NOT the correct move though, IMO.

JMHO
fran

I disagree Fran. Imo he did need to respond and usually affidavits are filed before a hearing so the Judge has time to read the file beforehand.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:10 PM
I wonder if it's possible he had her cell phone with him and called his own phone from it? I agree it would all depend on how many towers there are and if it couldn't be distinguished exactly where the call to his phone came from ~ the house or the store?

That's what I'm thinking. In his affidavit he indicates he left early and took the girls home from the party - said they walked. Perhaps I misinterpreted it but it seems to me they probably all walked to the party as well. Which meant Nancy also walked home - why would her cell be in the vehicle if that is the case?

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:12 PM
I wonder if it's possible he had her cell phone with him and called his own phone from it? I agree it would all depend on how many towers there are and if it couldn't be distinguished exactly where the call to his phone came from ~ the house or the store?

I did the research , Alltel has 1 tower within a mile or so of the house that covers roughly 5 miles.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:13 PM
That's what I'm thinking. In his affidavit he indicates he left early and took the girls home from the party - said they walked. Perhaps I misinterpreted it but it seems to me they probably all walked to the party as well. Which meant Nancy also walked home - why would her cell be in the vehicle if that is the case?

i thought her cell was in the house, in her purse ?

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 02:14 PM
That's what I'm thinking. In his affidavit he indicates he left early and took the girls home from the party - said they walked. Perhaps I misinterpreted it but it seems to me they probably all walked to the party as well. Which meant Nancy also walked home - why would her cell be in the vehicle if that is the case?

Good point. AND, if she was using her cell for all her communication (which it sounds like she was), then if her cell is in her car it indicates she was in that car on Saturday morning .... somewhere between 6am and 6:30am, right? Cause supposedly she called Brad (unless she used the home phone). Either way there should be phone records that recorded the time of the call(s).

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:14 PM
i thought her cell was in the house, in her purse ?

911 call from Jessica Adam says the cell phone is in the car.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:16 PM
Good point. AND, if she was using her cell for all her communication (which it sounds like she was), then her cell being in her car indicates she was in that car on Saturday morning .... somewhere between 6am and 6:30am, right? Cause supposedly she called Brad (unless she used the home phone). Either way there should be phone records that recorded the time of the call(s).

Looks better for Brad if the phone call was made from the landline - have to admit that but I bet it wasn't.

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 02:16 PM
911 call from Jessica Adam says the cell phone is in the car.

do we know for sure it was NANCY'S cell phone in that (her) car? Could it have been Brad's phone? Did they have the same brand/model phone?

Jaydee0158
07-27-2008, 02:17 PM
I doubt the cops would mislead potential witnesses with incorrect clothing info.

She must have been found with the running clothes described....not surprising at all.

OK, so we can assume then that this is a new (verified) fact to add to the list.

Going back to Fran saying BC is trashing NC, is it possible that it was his counsel that insisted on the inclusion of the statements, and not necessarily BC? I am confused as to why a rebuttal of statements NC's friends made is considered trashing. ??

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:20 PM
911 call from Jessica Adam says the cell phone is in the car.

How would jessica know her phone was in the car :confused:

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 02:20 PM
Ya know...it's occurred to me in the past that CELL PHONES is where people who commit crimes often get caught. Cause they're making calls on the move, or, in Scott Peterson's case, they're making calls right near their own home...but in any case their movements are able to be tracked by triangulating the cell signal to the phone and tower.

It's like these folks can't help themselves...they have to be on their phones, making calls. They would have done themselves better evidence-wise by staying off the darn cell phones altogether...turning OFF the phone and just being out of touch for whatever length of time.

I can't tell you how many crimes I've heard about where cell phone records ultimately play a large part in helping to nail a suspect.

panthera
07-27-2008, 02:21 PM
That's what I'm thinking. In his affidavit he indicates he left early and took the girls home from the party - said they walked. Perhaps I misinterpreted it but it seems to me they probably all walked to the party as well. Which meant Nancy also walked home - why would her cell be in the vehicle if that is the case?
I thought the party was within easy walking distance too. I agree it doesn't make sense since she had the cell with her at the party. It also doesn't make sense she would've been inside the house calling him about the detergent and the phone's found in her car.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:23 PM
How would jessica know her phone was in the car :confused:

I would have to assume Brad told her - she says in the 911 call that she had talked to him, not once but twice.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:23 PM
Looks better for Brad if the phone call was made from the landline - have to admit that but I bet it wasn't.


Easy to do though

He returned home and 'forgot' the laundry soap.
He claims "Nancy" called at 6:40 and asked him for Juice.
He could have called his cell from the house at 6:40 and immediately left again for the store, < 5 minutes away......his timeline said he was at the store at 6:45

reddress58
07-27-2008, 02:25 PM
How would jessica know her phone was in the car :confused:
Wow! Good question. Jessica didn't live across the street....I think she was in another neighborhood. Brad must have told her. She never told the cops she drove over there and looked. When she called Brad he must have informed her that she didn't take her keys or her cell phone. But why tell her it is in the car????

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Easy to do though

He returned home and 'forgot' the laundry soap.
He claims "Nancy" called at 6:40 and asked him for Juice.
He could have called his cell from the house at 6:40 and immediately left again for the store, < 5 minutes away......his timeline said he was at the store at 6:45

Yep, if the same tower in their area covers them then all this 'calling' back 'n forth doesn't really prove anything cause he's within 5 min travel time of the store.

Supposedly if a phone is on, a tower can still track movement even if a call isn't made or received (through triangulation of the signal)....the question I have is: is the dump site still covered by the SAME tower as the one that covers their home? And if it's not the same tower, then did the 'dump site cell tower' pick up a signal to his phone?

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:28 PM
Wow! Good question. Jessica didn't live across the street....I think she was in another neighborhood. Brad must have told her. She never told the cops she drove over there and looked. When she called Brad he must have informed her that she didn't take her keys or her cell phone. But why tell her it is in the car????

I assume Brad told her that as well as Jessica's tells the dispatcher she had tried to cal l Nancy's cell. No doubt she asked Brad about it since Nancy wasn't answering and wasn't at home.

panthera
07-27-2008, 02:28 PM
I did the research , Alltel has 1 tower within a mile or so of the house that covers roughly 5 miles.
Thanks! :) So ~ he could've had it with him and no one would know the difference?

reddress58
07-27-2008, 02:31 PM
Yep, if the same tower in their area covers them then all this 'calling' back 'n forth doesn't really prove anything cause he's within 5 min travel time of the store.

Supposedly if a phone is on, a tower can still track movement even if a call isn't made or received (through triangulation of the signal)....the question I have is: is the dump site still covered by the SAME tower as the one that covers their home? And if it's not the same tower, then did the 'dump site cell tower' pick up a signal to his phone?
Does the phone have to be just on to pick up a signal or do you have to be actually talking on it? I'm technically stupid. Sorry.

Jaydee0158
07-27-2008, 02:31 PM
911 call from Jessica Adam says the cell phone is in the car.

How did Jessica know that? Was the 911 call placed from the outside of the Cooper house, after she investigated the car?

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 02:33 PM
Does the phone have to be just on to pick up a signal or do you have to be actually talking on it? I'm technically stupid. Sorry.

The phone does not have to be 'in-use' for the tower to pick up the signal.

And I'm not even sure if the phone has to be 'ON' though I need to research that. I remember something said during the Scott Peterson case discussions on TV about the phone still 'transmitting' even if it was off, but that didn't make sense to me at the time (and it still doesn't make sense now).

I will research this issue.

panthera
07-27-2008, 02:35 PM
Does the phone have to be just on to pick up a signal or do you have to be actually talking on it? I'm technically stupid. Sorry.
I believe it just has to be "on". :)

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:35 PM
How did Jessica know that? Was the 911 call placed from the outside of the Cooper house, after she investigated the car?

See above - in short, Jessica called Brad around 9 and he called her again around 12 - in between, in Jessica;s affidavit she says she tries to call Nancy's cell but gets no answers. I am ssuming the way she knew was she flat asked Brad about the phone because she had called and got no answer. In the 911 call she tells the dispatcher twice that the phone is in the car. I am therefore assuming the only person who could have told her that was Brad.

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 02:37 PM
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking

Cell phone tracking tracks the current position of a cell phone. To locate the phone, it must be turned on[1] but does not require an active call. GSM localisation is then done by triangulation based on the signal strength to nearby signal masts.[2]

In order to route calls to your phone the cell towers listen for a signal sent from the phone and negotiate which tower is best able to communicate with the phone. As the phone changes location, the towers monitor the signal and the phone is switched to a different tower as appropriate. By comparing the relative signal strength from multiple towers a general location of a phone can be determined.

A phone's location can be uploaded to a common web site where your "friends and family" can view your last reported position.

Newer phones may have built-in GPS receivers which could be used in a similar fashion, but with much higher accuracy.

Some newer phones and technology may also allow the tracking of the phone even when turned off or, at least, have the microphone activated.[3] Also, phones can have secondary batteries installed to allow tracking even if the battery is removed.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:37 PM
I would have to assume Brad told her - she says in the 911 call that she had talked to him, not once but twice.


Maybe she had a habit of keeping her purse and cell locked in her car ?
Remember the info about the passports...she used her car to keep her stuff.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:38 PM
Maybe she had a habit of keeping her purse and cell locked in her car ?
Remember the info about the passports...she used her car to keep her stuff.

So you think she came home from the party and locked her cell in the car for the night?

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:39 PM
One of settings Alltel phones have is 'GPS 911 only' or 'GPS -on'

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:41 PM
So you think she came home from the party and locked her cell in the car for the night?


If it was in her purse, that is likely.
By all accounts, she despised this man and was very suspicious of his motives , especially concerning finances.

panthera
07-27-2008, 02:41 PM
Maybe she had a habit of keeping her purse and cell locked in her car ?
Remember the info about the passports...she used her car to keep her stuff.
That's very possible. Her purse was in the car. So it could be Jessica just assumed the phone was there too. I can't think why Brad would've told her something like that especially if he'd just staged a phone call with it as part of covering up her murder?

reddress58
07-27-2008, 02:41 PM
The phone does not have to be 'in-use' for the tower to pick up the signal.

And I'm not even sure if the phone has to be 'ON' though I need to research that. I remember something said during the Scott Peterson case discussions on TV about the phone still 'transmitting' even if it was off, but that didn't make sense to me at the time (and it still doesn't make sense now).

I will research this issue.
Someone mentioned a possible route from the house to the grocery store he could have made for the dump. This makes sense knowing the neighborhood as I do. He's one street from Cary Parkway, which leads directly to Holly Springs Road. He'd make a right there, then take a left on Fielding. Comes back out the same way, and tehn goes left on Holly Springs Rd. Takes the next right on Lilly Atkins, which is a short cut back to Lochmere Drive and much closer to Kildaire Farm road and Harris Teeter than taking the route back to Cary Parkway toward his home.

What I can't understand is: if the children were home sleeping, then why not go to Lowes grocery which is much, much closer by? Must not be open that early...but he'd have to know that...unless he tried there first. Maybe they have a camera to see if he tried the doors at Lowes.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:43 PM
If it was in her purse, that is likely.
By all accounts, she despised this man and was very suspicious of his motives , especially concerning finances.

Seems to me all the more reason for her to keep the cell phone close rather than locked outside of the house while she was inside it. Not buying this one. Gotta charge the little sucker sometime.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:43 PM
Someone mentioned a possible route from the house to the grocery store he could have made for the dump. This makes sense knowing the neighborhood as I do. He's one street from Cary Parkway, which leads directly to Holly Springs Road. He'd make a right there, then take a left on Fielding. Comes back out the same way, and tehn goes left on Holly Springs Rd. Takes the next right on Lilly Atkins, which is a short cut back to Lochmere Drive and much closer to Kildaire Farm road and Harris Teeter than taking the route back to Cary Parkway toward his home.

What I can't understand is: if the children were home sleeping, then why not go to Lowes grocery which is much, much closer by? Must not be open that early...but he'd have to know that...unless he tried there first. Maybe they have a camera to see if he tried the doors at Lowes.

The HT is just around the corner...where is the Lowes ?

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 02:44 PM
Someone mentioned a possible route from the house to the grocery store he could have made for the dump. This makes sense knowing the neighborhood as I do.

Yes I read about that possible route. I'm very curious if one cell tower covers the entire route (or all possible routes) between the home, the store and the dump site.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:45 PM
Seems to me all the more reason for her to keep the cell phone close rather than locked outside of the house while she was inside it. Not buying this one. Gotta charge the little sucker sometime.

Ok, if it was in her car, what does that tell you ?
If it were in the car, it is more likely the 6:40 am call was made from the land line.
If it came from her cell....he is busted if it was in fact in the car.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:46 PM
That's very possible. Her purse was in the car. So it could be Jessica just assumed the phone was there too. I can't think why Brad would've told her something like that especially if he'd just staged a phone call with it as part of covering up her murder?

How would Jessica know the purse was in the car, anymore than she would know the phone was in the car, unless she asked ? If she didn't know that why did she tell the dispatcher twice ? Someone IMO told her.

reddress58
07-27-2008, 02:48 PM
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking

Cell phone tracking tracks the current position of a cell phone. To locate the phone, it must be turned on[1] but does not require an active call. GSM localisation is then done by triangulation based on the signal strength to nearby signal masts.[2]

In order to route calls to your phone the cell towers listen for a signal sent from the phone and negotiate which tower is best able to communicate with the phone. As the phone changes location, the towers monitor the signal and the phone is switched to a different tower as appropriate. By comparing the relative signal strength from multiple towers a general location of a phone can be determined.

A phone's location can be uploaded to a common web site where your "friends and family" can view your last reported position.

Newer phones may have built-in GPS receivers which could be used in a similar fashion, but with much higher accuracy.

Some newer phones and technology may also allow the tracking of the phone even when turned off or, at least, have the microphone activated.[3] Also, phones can have secondary batteries installed to allow tracking even if the battery is removed.
It's very possible the dump site is in different tower area. It is located in Raleigh and not Cary. The town limit of Cary ends at Lochmere Drive. Don't know if that makes a difference or not. Good work, SG!!

panthera
07-27-2008, 02:48 PM
Someone mentioned a possible route from the house to the grocery store he could have made for the dump. This makes sense knowing the neighborhood as I do. He's one street from Cary Parkway, which leads directly to Holly Springs Road. He'd make a right there, then take a left on Fielding. Comes back out the same way, and tehn goes left on Holly Springs Rd. Takes the next right on Lilly Atkins, which is a short cut back to Lochmere Drive and much closer to Kildaire Farm road and Harris Teeter than taking the route back to Cary Parkway toward his home.

What I can't understand is: if the children were home sleeping, then why not go to Lowes grocery which is much, much closer by? Must not be open that early...but he'd have to know that...unless he tried there first. Maybe they have a camera to see if he tried the doors at Lowes.

Is this the Lowes you're talking about? I noticed 4 of them in Cary.

Lowes Foods of Cary (Store No: 196) Store Address:
3480 Kildaire Farm Road
Millpond Village Shopping Center
Cary, NC 27511
Store Hours: Mon-Sun: 6:00am-Midnight

carolinalady
07-27-2008, 02:48 PM
Seems to me all the more reason for her to keep the cell phone close rather than locked outside of the house while she was inside it. Not buying this one. Gotta charge the little sucker sometime.

Maybe she uses a car charger?

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:49 PM
It's very possible the dump site is in different tower area. It is located in Raleigh and not Cary. The town limit of Cary ends at Lochmere Drive. Don't know if that makes a difference or not. Good work, SG!!

The dump site would be the same Alltel tower that is in Cary (US 1 near crossroads)

reddress58
07-27-2008, 02:51 PM
Seems to me all the more reason for her to keep the cell phone close rather than locked outside of the house while she was inside it. Not buying this one. Gotta charge the little sucker sometime.
Do we know who's car he was in when he went to HT? If she locked her stuff in her car to keep his hands off her stuff, then she would probably keep the keys close to herself. The only way he could get them would be to do something harmful to her.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:51 PM
Ok, if it was in her car, what does that tell you ?
If it were in the car, it is more likely the 6:40 am call was made from the land line.
If it came from her cell....he is busted if it was in fact in the car.

Thats what I am thinking. Also if the harris teeter has parking lot cams - LE might get lucky and be able to see one of those cars in the lot that am, real lucky if they do. But if by chance they do and it is the SUV that shows up - he is busted if the call came from her cell.

reddress58
07-27-2008, 02:52 PM
Is this the Lowes you're talking about? I noticed 4 of them in Cary.

Lowes Foods of Cary (Store No: 196) Store Address:
3480 Kildaire Farm Road
Millpond Village Shopping Center
Cary, NC 27511
Store Hours: Mon-Sun: 6:00am-Midnight
No. It's on Tryon Rd. Corner of Tryon & Cary Pkwy. Hop, skip & jump from the Coopers.

panthera
07-27-2008, 02:52 PM
How would Jessica know the purse was in the car, anymore than she would know the phone was in the car, unless she asked ? If she didn't know that why did she tell the dispatcher twice ? Someone IMO told her.
OK, I'll accept that Brad might have told her, so he would have used it to fake the phone call and then put it back in her car to make it look like he hadn't used it? I still can't figure out why Nancy, if she'd really called him, would've put it back in the car and not taken it with her jogging. I'm sorry, but it's just not making sense, imo.

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:53 PM
Do we know who's car he was in when he went to HT? If she locked her stuff in her car to keep his hands off her stuff, then she would probably keep the keys close to herself. The only way he could get them would be to do something harmful to her.

There was something, and I don't know if it was in an affidavit or where it came from for sure, that Nancy was sleeping in the kids room and kept her keys with her. I don't know the origin of that story, perhaps someone here can define that.

panthera
07-27-2008, 02:53 PM
No. It's on Tryon Rd. Corner of Tryon & Cary Pkwy. Hop, skip & jump from the Coopers.
Sorry ~ I'm not in that area of the state! :)

Store Address:
6430 Tryon Road
Wellington Shopping Center
Cary, NC 27513
Store Hours: Mon-Sun: 6:00am-Midnight



Same hours though!!

raisincharlie
07-27-2008, 02:54 PM
OK, I'll accept that Brad might have told her, so he would have used it to fake the phone call and then put it back in her car to make it look like he hadn't used it? I still can't figure out why Nancy, if she'd really called him, would've put it back in the car and not taken it with her jogging. I'm sorry, but it's just not making sense, imo.


No sense is exactly why I am wondering about it !

carolinalady
07-27-2008, 02:56 PM
There was something, and I don't know if it was in an affidavit or where it came from for sure, that Nancy was sleeping in the kids room and kept her keys with her. I don't know the origin of that story, perhaps someone here can define that.

Affidavit of one of her friends.

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 02:56 PM
OK, I'll accept that Brad might have told her, so he would have used it to fake the phone call and then put it back in her car to make it look like he hadn't used it? I still can't figure out why Nancy, if she'd really called him, would've put it back in the car and not taken it with her jogging. I'm sorry, but it's just not making sense, imo.

I think most joggers would agree they don't carry their cell phone as they pound the pavement.....ipod yes

reddress58
07-27-2008, 02:56 PM
The HT is just around the corner...where is the Lowes ?
HT is NOT just around the corner!! It is in the opposite direction of the dump site. Lowes is just around the corner. Two minutes at the most. I go every day and I can almost throw a rock to the Coopers' yard.

carolinalady
07-27-2008, 02:58 PM
OK, I'll accept that Brad might have told her, so he would have used it to fake the phone call and then put it back in her car to make it look like he hadn't used it? I still can't figure out why Nancy, if she'd really called him, would've put it back in the car and not taken it with her jogging. I'm sorry, but it's just not making sense, imo.

I often don't take my cell phone with me. I don't think anything is strange about not taking a phone w/ you.

I guess only the phone records will show where the call for juice originated from (cell or home).

SleuthyGal
07-27-2008, 02:58 PM
Hmmmm....regarding her cell phone....

This may mean nothing at all, but I wonder if HIS fingerprints are all over that cell? Or if there could be any other/forensic evidence (microscopic) left on her cell phone.

Did he personally hand Nancy's cell phone over to police? Or did the police 'reach' into Nancy's car to retrieve the phone?

WHO last touched Nancy's cell phone?

Just the Fax
07-27-2008, 03:00 PM
Sorry ~ I'm not in that area of the state! :)

Store Address:
6430 Tryon Road
Wellington Shopping Center
Cary, NC 27513
Store Hours: Mon-Sun: 6:00am-Midnight



Same hours though!!

This store is a bit closer, but not by much.
I bet they normally shopped at HT....He could get in and out by
knowing where things were...+ the employees could recognize him.
That is what he wanted for his alibi

Sewing_Buddy
07-27-2008, 03:02 PM
I often drive around my area to explore new neighborhoods, walk through new houses being built, etc. Perhaps he went in there while looking for a new place to live?

I can understand how he would know - Nancy probably knew it, too.

Considering their financial situation, I doubt he could afford a place in that area after they separated!

reddress58
07-27-2008, 03:02 PM
I often don't take my cell phone with me. I don't think anything is strange about not taking a phone w/ you.

I guess only the phone records will show where the call for juice originated from (cell or home).
I think Brad made a point to say Nancy called him from home, which indicates to me she used the home phone.