Were the lights on in the basement?

[Chrishope]

Does anyone know if the lights were on in the basement when the police and guests arrived shortly after 6am on the 26th.

On forums for justice I found a reference to them being on. On Cutter's site, it says they were not on.

[angelwngs]

Does anyone know if the lights were on in the basement when the police and guests arrived shortly after 6am on the 26th.

On forums for justice I found a reference to them being on. On Cutter's site, it says they were not on.

Everything I have read about the case reported them on in the basement.

[Chrishope]

Thank you. Anyone second that?

[Toltec]

I don't know who turned on the lights in the basement.

This is a chronological list of people who entered the basement after the 911 call:

Officer French
Fleet White
Officer Reichenbacher
John Ramsey
Fleet White and John Ramsey

If indeed Officer French was the first to go down into the basement....wouldn't he have looked for the light switch? Did he search the basement with just his flashlight? Did Fleet White turn on the lights?

As you well know, the lightswitch to the basement was in an odd place....the wall directly behind the door leading to the basement...

My theory is that the lights were already on before anyone arrived.

[angelwngs]

That is what I think as well, T.

[SuperDave]

They were on in the basement, but not the room JB was found in. Thus the confusion.

[DeeDee249]

Hmmm. Anyone ever see this issue addressed anywhere? Any LE ever question the Rs about why the lights were on and who turned them on?
Did the Rs ever try to say that the "intruder" must have left them on?
We know a neighbor reported seeing "strange moving lights" around the kitchen, which are generally presumed to be someone walking around with the flashlight. But the basement also had windows in most areas and I don't recall anyone saying they saw lights on there.

[Blondieskatz]

I don't remember reading that the lights were on. I do remember the light switch to the room JB was in was in an awkward location. If the basement light was on, was it on when Officer French arrived? Or was that even noted?

I always assumed the strange moving lights the neighbor saw was the flashlight. Which brings up another question lights would be more than one and if each of the parents used a flashlight where is the other one?

[LI_Mom]

Do we know the times of:

neighbors seeing 'strange lights'

the scream

the grate sound

[KoldKase]

Do we know the times of:

neighbors seeing 'strange lights'

the scream

the grate sound


As far as I remember, those were all "reported" to be around or after midnight...? I think the later retracted story of "the scream" and "the grate" were they were heard around 1 am, because that came to be a time often discussed as possibly the TOD long ago. It also fits with the digestion of the pineapple, if JonBenet ate it after the Ramseys returned home.

This "strange lights in the house" story presents a problem for me. If no neighbors "noticed" any lights in the home turned on sometime that night, that doesn't mean they weren't. On the other hand, "someone" moving about the house with a flashlight would seem certainly to be someone involved in the murder.

The neighbor who reported seeing the "strange lights" also said the "usual lights" on in the home were not on that night. So either the Ramseys didn't turn them on for some reason, turned them off for some reason, or someone ELSE turned them off for some reason.

I honestly can't remember now who turned on the basement lights when friends/LE got there. Gosh, good questions. Y'all are just going to FORCE me to go back and read these books yet again, aren't you? :bang:

[KoldKase]

By the way, hey, Toltec. Long time....

[LI_Mom]

As far as I remember, those were all "reported" to be around or after midnight...? I think the later retracted story of "the scream" and "the grate" were they were heard around 1 am, because that came to be a time often discussed as possibly the TOD long ago. It also fits with the digestion of the pineapple, if JonBenet ate it after the Ramseys returned home.

This "strange lights in the house" story presents a problem for me. If no neighbors "noticed" any lights in the home turned on sometime that night, that doesn't mean they weren't. On the other hand, "someone" moving about the house with a flashlight would seem certainly to be someone involved in the murder.

The neighbor who reported seeing the "strange lights" also said the "usual lights" on in the home were not on that night. So either the Ramseys didn't turn them on for some reason, turned them off for some reason, or someone ELSE turned them off for some reason.

I honestly can't remember now who turned on the basement lights when friends/LE got there. Gosh, good questions. Y'all are just going to FORCE me to go back and read these books yet again, aren't you? :bang:

Thanks, KK.

I suppose it doesn't do much good to ask the Ramseys what lights they usually left on during the night & what lights they left on that night.... they'd just claim the pineapple shut them off. lol


If the basement lights were on, shouldn't the neighbors have noticed them on when they heard the scream/grate?

By morning & the 911 call.... we already know the Ramseys are awake & suffering from CRS.

Did John admit to going downstairs BEFORE French did?

[angelwngs]

As far as I remember, those were all "reported" to be around or after midnight...? I think the later retracted story of "the scream" and "the grate" were they were heard around 1 am, because that came to be a time often discussed as possibly the TOD long ago. It also fits with the digestion of the pineapple, if JonBenet ate it after the Ramseys returned home.

This "strange lights in the house" story presents a problem for me. If no neighbors "noticed" any lights in the home turned on sometime that night, that doesn't mean they weren't. On the other hand, "someone" moving about the house with a flashlight would seem certainly to be someone involved in the murder.

The neighbor who reported seeing the "strange lights" also said the "usual lights" on in the home were not on that night. So either the Ramseys didn't turn them on for some reason, turned them off for some reason, or someone ELSE turned them off for some reason.

I honestly can't remember now who turned on the basement lights when friends/LE got there. Gosh, good questions. Y'all are just going to FORCE me to go back and read these books yet again, aren't you? :bang:

Join me! Took out the old pens, notebooks and books on the case and have been obcessed again. Hubby and kids are shaking their heads, saying you know the odds you guys areup against, but hey, as long as there is hope..."If there's a will there's a way."

[Toltec]

By the way, hey, Toltec. Long time....

Right back atcha!

Officer French directed the Ramseys to the sunroom. He looked at the ransom letter. He went down to the basement looking for points of entry. No way he could have found the lightswitch....so did he search the basement only by means of his flashlight?

What about the next person going down....Reichenbach or Fleet White? If it were Fleet White, I assume he would know where the switch was because he would go down to the basement to fetch some wine in the wine cellar.

If it was Officer Reichenbach, did he also search the basement using just a flashlight?

Nothing has been revealed about lights in the basement...nothing.

[KoldKase]

Thanks, Toltec. Now I feel better about not knowing the answer to that question! :waitasec:

[KoldKase]

Join me! Took out the old pens, notebooks and books on the case and have been obcessed again. Hubby and kids are shaking their heads, saying you know the odds you guys areup against, but hey, as long as there is hope..."If there's a will there's a way."

You are still young, my child...HAHAHA, sorry, had to put on my "Yoda" hat for that.

I can't tell you how often I think, Give it up, already! or, Just read the darn books again! :bang:

[LinasK]

You are still young, my child...HAHAHA, sorry, had to put on my "Yoda" hat for that.

I can't tell you how often I think, Give it up, already! or, Just read the darn books again! :bang:


KoldKase, please post your FFJ Avatar here of the size 12 Bloomies, Pretty, pretty please!:clap:

[angelwngs]

You are still young, my child...HAHAHA, sorry, had to put on my "Yoda" hat for that.

I can't tell you how often I think, Give it up, already! or, Just read the darn books again! :bang:

Hey, maybe one day, I may hear the treasured words from my greatly admired masters, "Ahhhh, you've learned well, Grasshopper." :blushing:

(Different film, same principle.) :)

[DeeDee249]

I know neighbor Melanie Stanton claims she was woken by the scream around midnight. She then woke her husband, who had NOT heard the scream but he did claim to hear the "metal scraping concrete" around then also. That sound may not necessarily represent the metal grate (this explanation is usually favored by IDIs as a way of showing that it was an intruder climbing into the house through the basement window. There is a problem with this, though. At that time of night, JBR was about to be killed. The intruder would already have had to be IN the house for hours feeding her pineapple, etc. and that time was too early for them to leave by that same window- the scream, death and coverup (including the note and replacement of the writing materials) would make any exit happen hours after midnight and the sound traveling across the street.)
The metal scraping concrete is also speculated to be the sound of the metal paint cans in the wineceller being moved to make room for the body to be placed there. THAT is more plausible. The paint cans exist- they were there in the room and appear in photographs. However, the moving of the window grate is pure speculation and the unbroken spider webs make it seem unlikely that it ever happened.

[Chrishope]

I know neighbor Melanie Stanton claims she was woken by the scream around midnight. She then woke her husband, who had NOT heard the scream but he did claim to hear the "metal scraping concrete" around then also. That sound may not necessarily represent the metal grate (this explanation is usually favored by IDIs as a way of showing that it was an intruder climbing into the house through the basement window. There is a problem with this, though. At that time of night, JBR was about to be killed. The intruder would already have had to be IN the house for hours feeding her pineapple, etc. and that time was too early for them to leave by that same window- the scream, death and coverup (including the note and replacement of the writing materials) would make any exit happen hours after midnight and the sound traveling across the street.)
The metal scraping concrete is also speculated to be the sound of the metal paint cans in the wineceller being moved to make room for the body to be placed there. THAT is more plausible. The paint cans exist- they were there in the room and appear in photographs. However, the moving of the window grate is pure speculation and the unbroken spider webs make it seem unlikely that it ever happened.


I think you're right on the mark about the grate, an intruder wouldn't be coming in or out just after the scream - we know he didn't leave at that point because of the garroting. Why would an intruder wait to see if anyone in the house heard the scream? Wouldn't he likely just leave at that point? Possibly moving the grate was a deliberate sound effect, created so whoever heard the scream would also hear the "grate" ? We know from photographic evidence that no one slid their butt accross that sill that night.

It's always bothered me that when re-enacted the scream was heard clearly at the neighbor's house, but also upstairs in the master bedroom. Of course JR/PR could be sound sleepers, just like Mr. Stanton. It also bothers me that no one heard breaking glass, yet we have some evidence (housekeeper- can't recall her name at the moment) that the window had not been broken in August as JR claims.

I have doubts about the paint can theory. They will make noise if scrapped on concrete, but why would an intruder want to make that much noise? -especially after a scream. Just as easy to pick them up by the handles and move them.

[JMO8778]

I wonder if JR broke the window that morning when he went to the basement alone.it wasn't reported to be broken when police arrived,was it? at least it was written there were no obvious points of entry.
I suspect either Patsy, John or both,were in a hurry to hide the body at the moment,and so sliding the paint cans was just easier and something they didn't think about or think would be overheard at the time.seems they were more concerned about the lights being on,as they wanted to appear to be asleep.

[Chrishope]

I wonder if JR broke the window that morning when he went to the basement alone.it wasn't reported to be broken when police arrived,was it? at least it was written there were no obvious points of entry.
I suspect either Patsy, John or both,were in a hurry to hide the body at the moment,and so sliding the paint cans was just easier and something they didn't think about or think would be overheard at the time.seems they were more concerned about the lights being on,as they wanted to appear to be asleep.

I've wondered the same thing. Sure would be risky to break glass while the police are upstairs. Of course we don't know what exactly is meant by "no obvious points of entry". Does that mean no broke window (which is what it would mean to me, or does it mean no disturbance of the dirt and debri on the sill, grate in place, spideweb intact, though the window is broken?

I hate to beat up on the DPD, but one can't help but feel that had this happened in Chicago or NYC or even Atlanta that there would have been a much more organized and professional police response - and better reports to read.

Yeah, if it was JR/PR, then they may have slid the cans, not thinking it could be heard outside the house.

[coloradokares]

I've wondered the same thing. Sure would be risky to break glass while the police are upstairs. Of course we don't know what exactly is meant by "no obvious points of entry". Does that mean no broke window (which is what it would mean to me, or does it mean no disturbance of the dirt and debri on the sill, grate in place, spideweb intact, though the window is broken?

I hate to beat up on the DPD, but one can't help but feel that had this happened in Chicago or NYC or even Atlanta that there would have been a much more organized and professional police response - and better reports to read.

Yeah, if it was JR/PR, then they may have slid the cans, not thinking it could be heard outside the house.

Dont you mean the BPD This was not under the auspices of Denver. Had it been we would have nothing to discuss all these years. The hammer would have gone down a very long time ago. Only in Boulder could this have happened.

[Chrishope]

Dont you mean the BPD This was not under the auspices of Denver. Had it been we would have nothing to discuss all these years. The hammer would have gone down a very long time ago. Only in Boulder could this have happened.

Yes, I meant Boulder. Don't know why I said DPD. Maybe they should have taken DPD up on the offer of help.

[Toltec]

You are correct Chrishope...the scream would have led to the "intruder" bolting. If JonBenet had the chance to scream, than why would an intruder not take precautions...like duct tape her mouth first?

1. Enter JonBenet's bedroom.

2. Duct tape her mouth.

3. Tie her up.

4. Leave the home.

About the "strange light"....the next door neighbor tells police he saw suspicious lights around midnight. His reasoning was that someone was walking around with a flashlight, as not to wake anyone.

The neighbor to the south reported that she found it odd that the lamp in the sunroom was off...something she has never seen before. The lamp post outside was off.

Strange lights, screams, metal hitting concrete....

[JMO8778]

also if it were a REAL intruder,that duct tape would have went all the way around her head,or at least a good gag would have.bound and gag her,get her out as quickly and effiecently as possible.that's how criminals work,they don't hang around.they have a plan,they set it in motion and they carry it out as fast as possible.no goofing off.
the duct tape used was said to be only about 3/4 in. wide;it wouldn't have kept her quiet at all,if she'd been conscious.

[SuperDave]

also if it were a REAL intruder,that duct tape would have went all the way around her head,or at least a good gag would have.bound and gag her,get her out as quickly and effiecently as possible.that's how criminals work,they don't hang around.they have a plan,they set it in motion and they carry it out as fast as possible.no goofing off.
the duct tape used was said to be only about 3/4 in. wide;it wouldn't have kept her quiet at all,if she'd been conscious.

That's what I've said for years. And will say again (Hee hee!)

[DeeDee249]

Are you sure about the width of that duct tape? 3/4 " wide sounds more like electrical tape; in one of the pictures of the white blanket you can see the piece of duct tape on the blanket and it looks like the standard width (about 3-4 inches) I'll try to find it.

Try here: http://www.acandyrose.com/149blanket.jpg

[Mysterylover]

I think you're right on the mark about the grate, an intruder wouldn't be coming in or out just after the scream - we know he didn't leave at that point because of the garroting. Why would an intruder wait to see if anyone in the house heard the scream? Wouldn't he likely just leave at that point? Possibly moving the grate was a deliberate sound effect, created so whoever heard the scream would also hear the "grate" ? We know from photographic evidence that no one slid their butt accross that sill that night.

It's always bothered me that when re-enacted the scream was heard clearly at the neighbor's house, but also upstairs in the master bedroom.

Of course JR/PR could be sound sleepers, just like Mr. Stanton.

It also bothers me that no one heard breaking glass, yet we have some evidence (housekeeper- can't recall her name at the moment) that the window had not been broken in August as JR claims.

I have doubts about the paint can theory. They will make noise if scrapped on concrete, but why would an intruder want to make that much noise? -especially after a scream. Just as easy to pick them up by the handles and move them.....

Speaking of theories, this site has many different theories and topics to compare.....imo

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3561