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christine2448
07-28-2008, 01:41 AM
Please continue here

Victor
07-28-2008, 02:48 AM
COME ON, PEOPLE, LETS' TAKE SOME ACTION! (see bottom of this post).

I totally agree that LE is *accidently* keeping these murderers running free in our society.

They are protecting them from capture by keeping the types of guns they used COMPLETELY SECRET.

In the meantime, these psychos have probably already killed MORE innocent people. And they'll most assuredly kill other children.

There were 2 different caliber of guns used to murder these little girls. What kind of guns were they? They won't tell you! That police spokeswoman at the press conference the other day said it right, "Someone out there knows something."

Yes, probably several people who unwittingly know the murderers are aware they own these 2 murder weapons. But since police are keeping their specific gun sizes TOTALLY SECRET, these acquaintances don't think to turn them in!

That's a Bozo no-no! :devil:


PUBLIC: The best way to get the cops to act on cases like this is to contact the MEDIA. They put the most pressure on law enforcement which will result in real action.

WRITE A LETTER TO THE EDITOR NOW! Here's a link to one of the biggest Oklahoma web news sites, NewsOK.com (the 'Letters to the Editor' section. Scroll all the way to the bottom!);
http://newsok.com/more/articles/?rss...ws.xml?id=1045

FlowerChild
07-28-2008, 04:12 AM
COME ON, PEOPLE, LETS' TAKE SOME ACTION! (see bottom of this post).

I totally agree that LE is *accidently* keeping these murderers running free in our society.

They are protecting them from capture by keeping the types of guns they used COMPLETELY SECRET.

In the meantime, these psychos have probably already killed MORE innocent people. And they'll most assuredly kill other children.

There were 2 different caliber of guns used to murder these little girls. What kind of guns were they? They won't tell you! That police spokeswoman at the press conference the other day said it right, "Someone out there knows something."

Yes, probably several people who unwittingly know the murderers are aware they own these 2 murder weapons. But since police are keeping their specific gun sizes TOTALLY SECRET, these acquaintances don't think to turn them in!
snip

I would like to know the gun types and calibers but not because I believe these guns are being used to kill other people. Bullet casings and bullets were recovered in this case and OSBI/LE would know if the guns had been used before in a murder, or if they had been used again in another murder. I don't want the info released out of fear, but so that someone who unwittingly had obtained information on the killers based on the disappearance of said guns, or the appearance of said guns, or someone suddenly getting rid of guns could report the information to LE.

Unless it was a young person using Dad's guns, or the guns have a strong meaning for the killer(s), I think the guns used in this murder are currently at the bottom of a local lake - I don' think even the dumbest killer(s) would hang on to these particular guns KNOWING they can link the directly to these murders. If the killer(s) want to kill again, they won't do it with these guns, they'll just go and buy (or steal) another set of hot "throw away" guns. The killer(s) had plenty of time and yet they left a pile of bullet casings in the road, they didn't care if LE found them WHY? - they had no intention of having these guns long enough to get caught with them.

So yes, I think we should encourage (politely) OSBI to release more information on the guns (and the autopsies). A polite, logical, well thought out letter outlining the reasons we feel such information would be helpful and stating we are still highly motivated to find the POI and/or the killer(s) would be the best way to communicate our interest and our continuing support for all LE who are working to solve this case. I would never suggest OSBI is just being proprietary OR that they don't take getting these weapons of the street seriously - all that will do is get the letter filed under "crackpots". The way to get OSBI to take such a request seriously is to approach them with respect and invite them to give the public more information that could prove to be valuable tool for associates and family members to use in identifying possible POI's in the case.

I would communicate FIRST with the OSBI and the Okfuskee County Sheriff by mail (registered if possible) and follow that letter up with a COPY of the letter (and proof of receipt) to several media (TV and print) outlets in the area - National (Greta Nancy, et al), Oklahoma City AND Tulsa. It's always better to hand media justification to approach LE with a question (such as why are you not responding to all these legitimate requests?) than to just write a letter ranting about how they should put heat on OSBI and Local LE to talk about the guns and other evidence. Usually the media will respond and turn up the heat on ALL the LE working on a case IF it comes with a guaranteed ratings grabbing "hook" they can exploit easily like "the public is outraged". If we give the media the whole thing wrapped in a nice, tidy, easy package they are much more likely to pursue it.

My Opinion

Trino
07-28-2008, 06:32 AM
"the public is outraged" My Opinion

While I'm not in Weleetka, somehow I have the feeling that the outrage is not present like it should be. Could this be because many in Weleetka are economically disadvantaged and don't have enough influence to pressure OSBI? However, even nationally this story doesn't seem to have the front page presence equal to that of the Elizabeth Smart or Jessica Lundsford cases.

Maybe the outrage should be that people aren't outraged.

Dr. Pennypacker
07-28-2008, 07:33 AM
The handling of this case by LE is nothing short an embarrassment.
Shame on you OSBI!!!

YellowDog
07-28-2008, 08:08 AM
If only some renegade reporter would pick up on this and do an extensive research into the backgrounds of relatives of the victims and the drug and gang history in that area.

Dr. Pennypacker
07-28-2008, 08:39 AM
You are correct. If the media would exert it self this case would gain some momentum.

Trino
07-28-2008, 09:12 AM
You are correct. If the media would exert it self this case would gain some momentum.

This is definitely what it takes. The media seems to be decision makers on what cases deserve attention.

Maggie22
07-28-2008, 09:56 AM
The media follows what they think the public will find interesting. Their job is to sell newspapers, radio or television to the public. You can bet that if the public is vitally interested in a case it will get coverage. The public loses interest in a story when there are no new facts coming out. If some startling new fact were to come out in this case there would be a renewed interest from the public and then renewed media attention. Maggie

Claycat
07-28-2008, 12:01 PM
The media follows what they think the public will find interesting. Their job is to sell newspapers, radio or television to the public. You can bet that if the public is vitally interested in a case it will get coverage. The public loses interest in a story when there are no new facts coming out. If some startling new fact were to come out in this case there would be a renewed interest from the public and then renewed media attention. Maggie

Unfortunately, this is true!

Albert18
07-28-2008, 01:45 PM
I try not to be too impatient but this case worries me.

I highly doubt this is a fingerprint or DNA case so they need to solve this case using old fashioned investigating skills. Which means people skills. Knocking on doors, talking to people, listening to people, and most important making people in the community feel comfortable and confident with LE. Does anybody get the impression this is happening?

Now that you have stopped laughing, seriously, have you seen any evidence of people skills?

I also doubt this was a random act. There most likely is a connection with someone the girls knew or a connection through the families. I tend to think the connection was through the families. Which means one or more people in the families knows something. And if you don't have that info by week 8, why would you get it at week 12 or 16? And if someone in one of the families knows then somebody outside of the family probably knows something. An event that could have caused enough anger to kill two little girls could not have happened in a vacuum.

ArizonaGiGi
07-28-2008, 02:19 PM
5 shots to the body, 1 to the head
I just finished watching a 1993 movie titled The Young Americans. It takes place in London, where an American drug lord recruits young innocent people without any arrest records, to do his dirty work. If he thinks they might talk to the cops he has them killed, each one has 5 shots to the body, 1 to the head . That's his signature. :eek:
__________________

I posted this on the previous thread, but bumping it over here with corrections and clarification. I have never heard of this "5 to the body, 1 to the head" until Weleetka. Wondering if that is some type of signature or meaning in the drug world?

Dr. Pennypacker
07-28-2008, 02:26 PM
:eek:

T-Rex
07-28-2008, 02:37 PM
An early article said, "It's an active area for people to throw from the bridge, shoot from the bridge."
Maybe the person who killed the girls had shot from the bridge before, the police found matching bullets beneath the bridge, and that makes them think it's a local.

FlowerChild
07-28-2008, 04:00 PM
An early article said, "It's an active area for people to throw from the bridge, shoot from the bridge."
Maybe the person who killed the girls had shot from the bridge before, the police found matching bullets beneath the bridge, and that makes them think it's a local.
Under the bridge is water - a fairly large creek. It would be impossible to recover ANY bullets shot from the bridge into the creek (or at objects in or floating on the water). Unless OSBI has some magic powers to halt the water flow while they dig around in 100 years of muck for a week or two, there are no recoverable bullets IN Bad Creek under the bridge. There are several photos and videos of agents, CSI and the "ammunition" sniffing dog on the banks of the creek near the bridge - but there are no reports of any bullets or casings being recovered in that location that were related to the crime. The OSBI spent DAYS walking and mapping and using a metal detector on the entire area and then went up in helicopters for several days to survey the scene from the air. As was pointed out, they even brought in a special dog to find any bullets or casings they might have missed. I think they have covered the scene as well as it can be covered.

I don't think the killer(s) were on that road target shooting and I don't believe they are "locals" either - as in active members of the local community. I still believe this was a "hit" and I don't think anyone local knows the killer(s). I think the killer(s) are associates of the Placker extended family and they have been "around" the family - even been to their house on County Line Road - but they aren't "local". OSBI is right - SOMEBODY does know who did this - and OSBI may also know who did this...PROVING IT may be the problem. I think the OSBI played that tape to get to some very specific people close to the killers to try and guilt them into coming forward. And the OSBI sure isn't going to play their hand until they are SURE they can end the game. They obviously don't want their suspects to know they are hot on their trail, they just want to "suggest" they know something to keep pushing them and their buddies - if you make their friends nervous, you make them nervous and edgy... and you keep working the periphery of their lives - making the circle smaller and smaller in the hope they will get desperate - make a run for it, commit another crime or lose it and P-off someone who KNOWS who and why and will talk given the right incentive.

Depending on how "bad" and how connected the killers are, their wives/girlfriends/buddies may NOT be willing to talk unless they themselves face charges or they are offered a deal and safety. I think this may be where OSBI is headed with all of this. This may be far bigger than two dead girls, this could be a HUGE organization and OSBI wants to make sure they can deal that group a killing blow the 1st time they strike. And THIS is why the families know NOTHING - why would OSBI give THEM information that could get passed along thru them to the suspects - better to let them (And the public) think the case is going cold and they are inept - and then hit with no warning - and hopefully shut down the whole ugly bunch on drugs, guns, stolen goods etc WHILE scooping up a couple of people on a murder warrant.... along with a half-dozen of their closest friends - one of whom just might want a "get out of jail free" card and start talking.

My Opinion

GetSmart
07-28-2008, 04:44 PM
My Dear Dear FlowerChild.. You are something else.. kudos to you . If ever there was someone who could put my thoughts into words it is you.

You have it all summed up there perfect. Thank You.
As in like I am sure you have enough to do already but may I nominate you if the time comes & we need to send a letter to someone re this case.
Your Fan
GetSmart

:gold_crown:

Okie ties
07-28-2008, 06:38 PM
I am a long time lurker and first time poster on websleuths. I have been trying to get on and finally found a way through my verizon system. I posted these same comments on topix a couple days ago, but wanted to bring them over here for any additional input. This is in response to the following posted by flowerchild:

Originally Posted by FlowerChild
I found "baby cousin Nita"

Not sure which Placker/Paschal is related to Lanita Sue Bateman AKA "Baby Cousin Nita" From Linda K Placker's Web Site
http://v4mp-b1tch.tripod.com/id14.html

but Lanita a CONVICTED MURDERER IN PRISON FOR LIFE
and the crime was Gang Related thru Nita's Boyfriend Zjaiton Wood (Life Sentence) and his brother Tremaine (Tremane) Wood (Death Sentence)
It occurred in Oklahoma City, Jan 1, 2001 - Lanita was 18 years old.

Lanita Sue Bateman AKA "Baby Cousin Nita" (BD 1/12/1982)

Murder 1st Degree (sentenced to life 6-11-03)
also guilty of robbery with a firearm, conspiracy to commit a felony
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/se...7&imageindex=2
About The Murder
http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...?citeid=448920
Zjaiton Wood Lanita's Boyfriend and Co-Defendant Now Serving LWOP
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/se...1&imageindex=3
Tremaine Wood Lanita's Co-Defendant Now On Death Row
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/se...9&imageindex=7

If anybody can figure out how "Nita" is Linda's cousin and what Gang Affiliation the Wood Bros have/had that would be great - I have read/researched myself blind finding all of this.


From the day my daughter notified me that the news station she works for had reported this story, I began doing all the family history criminal background stuff. The one sight that kept coming back to me was Linda Kaye Placker's website with the inmate pictures and strange poems. I couldn't shake the feeling that there was more to this family story and it was right there staring me in the face. When I saw the post from Flowerchild, it all kind of came back to me. I looked up her link on Nita's boyfriend, ZJAITON T WOOD, and noticed all the tats on his body. The ones that stood out were the clowns. Earlier on WS, PGW posted about clown pictures in the guestbook at the funeral. There was some speculation about what that could mean and some possible affiliation to the insane clown posse. This is a gang with a violent history. Also on Linda Kaye Placker's web site, she has a tab for friends poems.

http://v4mp-b1tch.tripod.com/id14.html

There are some poems by "Dark Angel". I searched around myspace and found a dark angel that might be the same one Linda Kaye is referring to. Interestingly enough, when I looked at his pics, I noticed that he is a member of the "insane clown posse".

Flowerchild, you impress me over and over again with your ability to see beyond the norm and separate emotion from fact. This killing was, in my opinion, a hit and probably a retaliation. The gang ties, including the bandidos, continue to haunt me.

Like many of you, I can't stop thinking about this case, it consumes me.. so many unanswered questions.. believing the LE, OSBI and FBI know so much more but can't share it yet. I will rest more peacefully when this case is solved and I pray often that the truth will be revealed.:behindbar

Trino
07-28-2008, 06:40 PM
FlowerChild, I definitely agree with you about the background of the killers. However, I'm more pessimistic on OSBI. I don't think OSBI has a clue. Releasing part of the phone call IMO would not prey on the conscience of hardened gang members or their associates - male or female. With today's internet the killers are not stupid; they know the case hasn't gone cold - maybe in a couple of years but not yet. In fact, they could very well be monitoring our conversation or Topix.

GetSmart
07-28-2008, 07:07 PM
Okie ties.. It is nice to have you here. I would also like to say.. boy did you do your homework. Thank you for your input.
:Welcome-12-june:

Okie ties
07-28-2008, 07:40 PM
Okie ties.. It is nice to have you here. I would also like to say.. boy did you do your homework. Thank you for your input.
:Welcome-12-june:

Thank you so much. I have always been obsessed with google, but this case fueled my passion for using the internet and all it's data for good. I have read all of your posts getsmart and am a big fan of your insight. Keep it up!

xena
07-28-2008, 09:01 PM
Under the bridge is water - a fairly large creek. It would be impossible to recover ANY bullets shot from the bridge into the creek (or at objects in or floating on the water). Unless OSBI has some magic powers to halt the water flow while they dig around in 100 years of muck for a week or two, there are no recoverable bullets IN Bad Creek under the bridge. There are several photos and videos of agents, CSI and the "ammunition" sniffing dog on the banks of the creek near the bridge - but there are no reports of any bullets or casings being recovered in that location that were related to the crime. The OSBI spent DAYS walking and mapping and using a metal detector on the entire area and then went up in helicopters for several days to survey the scene from the air. As was pointed out, they even brought in a special dog to find any bullets or casings they might have missed. I think they have covered the scene as well as it can be covered.

I don't think the killer(s) were on that road target shooting and I don't believe they are "locals" either - as in active members of the local community. I still believe this was a "hit" and I don't think anyone local knows the killer(s). I think the killer(s) are associates of the Placker extended family and they have been "around" the family - even been to their house on County Line Road - but they aren't "local". OSBI is right - SOMEBODY does know who did this - and OSBI may also know who did this...PROVING IT may be the problem. I think the OSBI played that tape to get to some very specific people close to the killers to try and guilt them into coming forward. And the OSBI sure isn't going to play their hand until they are SURE they can end the game. They obviously don't want their suspects to know they are hot on their trail, they just want to "suggest" they know something to keep pushing them and their buddies - if you make their friends nervous, you make them nervous and edgy... and you keep working the periphery of their lives - making the circle smaller and smaller in the hope they will get desperate - make a run for it, commit another crime or lose it and P-off someone who KNOWS who and why and will talk given the right incentive.

Depending on how "bad" and how connected the killers are, their wives/girlfriends/buddies may NOT be willing to talk unless they themselves face charges or they are offered a deal and safety. I think this may be where OSBI is headed with all of this. This may be far bigger than two dead girls, this could be a HUGE organization and OSBI wants to make sure they can deal that group a killing blow the 1st time they strike. And THIS is why the families know NOTHING - why would OSBI give THEM information that could get passed along thru them to the suspects - better to let them (And the public) think the case is going cold and they are inept - and then hit with no warning - and hopefully shut down the whole ugly bunch on drugs, guns, stolen goods etc WHILE scooping up a couple of people on a murder warrant.... along with a half-dozen of their closest friends - one of whom just might want a "get out of jail free" card and start talking.

My OpinionFlower Child, My fiancee is a retired Oklahoma State Trooper, and that is exactly what his thoughts were when he spoke with me following the murders. He thinks it is a hit and probably associated with parents or other relatives.

Albert18
07-28-2008, 10:18 PM
Lanita is a sweetheart isn't she. Lovely Lanita.

I agree with Trino, I don't think they have a clue who did this. But if it was a retaliation/hit of some kind, that doesn't make sense. There should be people who know who and even more people who know why. Once the why was figured out the who should follow. I seriously doubt the people who know this stuff are the type that spend their time calling up LE tip lines.

ArizonaGiGi
07-28-2008, 10:44 PM
[quote=FlowerChild;2425182] ~snip~
I still believe this was a "hit"

~snip~ this may be far bigger that two dead girls, this could be a HUGE organization


FC, I have always thought this was a hit. I wondered what's the motive though? After watching a movie last night there is the possibility that the girls could have been mules (delivering drugs) and been taken out so they couldn't talk. I'm sure that has been mentioned on here before, but after seeing the movie I realize it may be the reality. i am posting my re-post once again because I think it is VERY INTERESTING. (for the last time)


5 shots to the body, 1 to the head
I just finished watching a 1993 movie titled The Young Americans. It takes place in London, where an American drug lord recruits young innocent people without any arrest records, to do his dirty work. If he thinks they might talk to the cops he has them killed, each one has 5 shots to the body, 1 to the head . That's his signature. :eek:


__________________

GetSmart
07-28-2008, 11:02 PM
ArizonaGiGi 5 shots to the body, 1 to the head
When I read what you said last nite I got chill bumps.

I have no doubt in my mind or heart this was a "gangland" slaying.
Be it that indeed Buttons put her pic on the girls pages or someone else did , regardless that to me is a confirmation from above.

As you can tell I have done this gang research since the beginning & as I have said before (family history, tattoos, family friends & moving from OKC) it all adds up to deep doo doo JMO

FlowerChild : one of whom just might want a "get out of jail free" card and start talking.
CFI....Yes I agree. That is how it works or they get moved to a better location.

Ruflossn
07-28-2008, 11:24 PM
A life so young released to heaven
Left on earth, we wonder Why?
But some are sent among us briefly:
Some have spirits meant to fly...

Get Smart~
This is beautiful!!

Ruflossn

FlowerChild
07-28-2008, 11:36 PM
FlowerChild, I definitely agree with you about the background of the killers. However, I'm more pessimistic on OSBI. I don't think OSBI has a clue. Releasing part of the phone call IMO would not prey on the conscience of hardened gang members or their associates - male or female. With today's internet the killers are not stupid; they know the case hasn't gone cold - maybe in a couple of years but not yet. In fact, they could very well be monitoring our conversation or Topix.
Ah but it might get to someone's girlfriend - who happens to have a couple of kids she'd really like to keep safe and especially if she thought she might go to prison and never see her kids again.

I think OSBI might be working on the "associates" of the killer(s) - and not every single person the killer(s) might know are hardcore gang-bangers OR criminals. Plus, it's a LOT easier to arrest someone if they have involvement with several sorts of criminal activities - say it's somebody's girlfriend who knows something about the murders and then gets busted for meth possession - and is about to lose her kids and go to prison - she might talk. And maybe she knows who the next person up the chain of command is and THAT person gets busted for making meth or distributing or possession of stolen property and THEY are facing some significant prison time...and so on. This IS going to be a Death Penalty case and I have to believe, threatened with THAT, eventually somebody is gonna "deal" - maybe immunity - maybe lesser charges --- and we'll have the killer(s).

And you guys do realize that OSBI or DEA or FBI may very well have somebody INSIDE some of these groups, right? Arresting someone right now for these murders just might blow YEARS of work to take down the whole group. OSBI may be FORCED to play a waiting game for a while.

My Opinion

Fairy1
07-28-2008, 11:39 PM
Ah but it might get to someone's girlfriend - who happens to have a couple of kids she'd really like to keep safe and especially if she thought she might go to prison and never see her kids again.

I think OSBI might be working on the "associates" of the killer(s) - and not every single person the killer(s) might know are hardcore gang-bangers OR criminals. Plus, it's a LOT easier to arrest someone if they have involvement with several sorts of criminal activities - say it's somebody's girlfriend who knows something about the murders and then gets busted for meth possession - and is about to lose her kids and go to prison - she might talk. And maybe she knows who the next person up the chain of command is and THAT person gets busted for making meth or distributing or possession of stolen property and THEY are facing some significant prison time...and so on. This IS going to be a Death Penalty case and I have to believe, threatened with THAT, eventually somebody is gonna "deal" - maybe immunity - maybe lesser charges --- and we'll have the killer(s).

And you guys do realize that OSBI or DEA or FBI may very well have somebody INSIDE some of these groups, right? Arresting someone right now for these murders just might blow YEARS of work to take down the whole group. OSBI may be FORCED to play a waiting game for a while.

My Opinion

From your fingertips to God's ears FC! Thanks again for the hope. It's difficult to hang onto with this case.

:blowkiss:

GetSmart
07-28-2008, 11:48 PM
I found Tremane Wood's myspace
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=194656370

Mane's Blurbs About me:
Thank you for taking the time to check out my page! My name is Tremane, and I am currently living on Oklahoma's Death Row. I am new to MySpace, and I am hoping to find some new friends who are willing to write to me. Death Row is a lonely and isolated place. I rarely have visitors. I have seen many people that I have grown to love and respect walk to their deaths. While my body may be confined, my mind remains free. It is through your letters that I hope to keep a grip on the world outside and to take my mind off of the reality of life on a timer. A little about me -- I am a funny, easy-going person, and a proud parent of two sons. I love sports and enjoy reading. I am on Death Row as a result of a murder conviction, which I am currently appealing. Because I have pending appeals, I cannot discuss the facts or circumstances of my case with anyone. I DO NOT HAVE INTERNET ACCESS, but, I am fortunate to have some people who care about me who are willing to maintain this page for me. If you have a few minutes, could you please take a few moments to write to me? You might make a new friend, and in the process, you will make my existence a more hopeful one. I believe that God sends us angels in unlikely places. I am praying that, for me, MySpace might be one of those places. My address follows: Tremane Wood, #271967, Oklahoma State Penitentiary, H-Unit SW 4-F, P.O. Box 97, McAlester, Oklahoma 74502 While I can't actually see this page, I would also love it if you would consider adding me as a friend.

Fairy1
07-28-2008, 11:52 PM
I found Tremane Wood's myspace
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=194656370

Mane's Blurbs About me:
Thank you for taking the time to check out my page! My name is Tremane, and I am currently living on Oklahoma's Death Row. I am new to MySpace, and I am hoping to find some new friends who are willing to write to me. Death Row is a lonely and isolated place. I rarely have visitors. I have seen many people that I have grown to love and respect walk to their deaths. While my body may be confined, my mind remains free. It is through your letters that I hope to keep a grip on the world outside and to take my mind off of the reality of life on a timer. A little about me -- I am a funny, easy-going person, and a proud parent of two sons. I love sports and enjoy reading. I am on Death Row as a result of a murder conviction, which I am currently appealing. Because I have pending appeals, I cannot discuss the facts or circumstances of my case with anyone. I DO NOT HAVE INTERNET ACCESS, but, I am fortunate to have some people who care about me who are willing to maintain this page for me. If you have a few minutes, could you please take a few moments to write to me? You might make a new friend, and in the process, you will make my existence a more hopeful one. I believe that God sends us angels in unlikely places. I am praying that, for me, MySpace might be one of those places. My address follows: Tremane Wood, #271967, Oklahoma State Penitentiary, H-Unit SW 4-F, P.O. Box 97, McAlester, Oklahoma 74502 While I can't actually see this page, I would also love it if you would consider adding me as a friend.

Oh my! Little late to be believing in angels, dude. :mad:

PGW
07-28-2008, 11:58 PM
The number 6.

I guess if you want gang connotation it could be here's total of six. That is a signature number. The sum total is. But the way it is divided, would be telling you something, too, as in how many days before the next victim/fight. \
Or how many victims.

1 down, five to go. That's just saying if Skylar was in the wrong place at wrong time and the target was Taylor. Those are all if's.

It just possibly could be that the number of shots just has to do with how many rounds of ammunition can be fired from that gun. Might not have any connotation.

You're also thinking perhaps the clown tattoo folks are behind the crime, when actually, they could be the reason the crime was done, aimed at them.
For instance, what is known about the other victim before the robbery murder event? The one up in Kansas.

It might be the guys with the clown tattoos would like to avenge Taylor's death, not be the actual suspects behind what happened.

I'm just trying to put some more viewpoints to this. I read those poems of Linda's and I didn't see anything bizarre or wrong with them. She sounded like a very expressive young person. I read the terrible robbery murders and as horrible as it was, I still don't understand why Lanita has life in prison. She conspired to rob someone, not have them killed. It was not a good thing to do, but she didn't plan murder or participate in murder, and I just really wonder why they stuck the sentencing to her so hard. She wasn't in the room when it happened. I think she should have gotten robbery charges definitely, but not murder attached to it.

This family, for all their troubles, strikes me as a family that makes some bad choices, sometimes but other times just has extremely bad luck. It's quite apparent they loved Taylor, and I really believe they were doing the best they could to lead better lives. I saw at topix some are blaming the grandfather of doing this to cover up another type of crime, and I just do not believe there are indications of that at all.

I won't go into the gang stuff because my knowledge is limited.



[quote=FlowerChild;2425182] ~snip~
I still believe this was a "hit"

~snip~ this may be far bigger that two dead girls, this could be a HUGE organization


FC, I have always thought this was a hit. I wondered what's the motive though? After watching a movie last night there is the possibility that the girls could have been mules (delivering drugs) and been taken out so they couldn't talk. I'm sure that has been mentioned on here before, but after seeing the movie I realize it may be the reality. i am posting my re-post once again because I think it is VERY INTERESTING. (for the last time)


5 shots to the body, 1 to the head
I just finished watching a 1993 movie titled The Young Americans. It takes place in London, where an American drug lord recruits young innocent people without any arrest records, to do his dirty work. If he thinks they might talk to the cops he has them killed, each one has 5 shots to the body, 1 to the head . That's his signature. :eek:


__________________

GetSmart
07-29-2008, 12:13 AM
I do believe The Grandparents were doing the best they could, at least my heart wants too. I think it is to do with the other bad apples.

Fairy1
07-29-2008, 12:20 AM
I do believe The Grandparents were doing the best they could, at least my heart wants too. I think it is to do with the other bad apples.

Totally agree GS. I also believe this was a "hit" and that it is somehow gang AND family related. JMO

GetSmart
07-29-2008, 12:48 AM
on msn right now is a story about the death row inmates & gangs.. They are interviewing from all over

Okie ties
07-29-2008, 12:55 AM
Quote from PGW:
"You're also thinking perhaps the clown tattoo folks are behind the crime, when actually, they could be the reason the crime was done, aimed at them.
For instance, what is known about the other victim before the robbery murder event? The one up in Kansas.

It might be the guys with the clown tattoos would like to avenge Taylor's death, not be the actual suspects behind what happened.

I'm just trying to put some more viewpoints to this. I read those poems of Linda's and I didn't see anything bizarre or wrong with them. She sounded like a very expressive young person. I read the terrible robbery murders and as horrible as it was, I still don't understand why Lanita has life in prison. She conspired to rob someone, not have them killed. It was not a good thing to do, but she didn't plan murder or participate in murder, and I just really wonder why they stuck the sentencing to her so hard. She wasn't in the room when it happened. I think she should have gotten robbery charges definitely, but not murder attached to it.

This family, for all their troubles, strikes me as a family that makes some bad choices, sometimes but other times just has extremely bad luck. It's quite apparent they loved Taylor, and I really believe they were doing the best they could to lead better lives. I saw at topix some are blaming the grandfather of doing this to cover up another type of crime, and I just do not believe there are indications of that at all."


PGW~ I do agree with a lot of what you said. When I brought up the clown tatoos and possible gang affliation, I was not implying that they did the killings, but rather suggesting that there is some underlying retaliation from another group opposing them. I too wondered about Lanita and why she was given life with no parole option. After reading all the documentation on the robbery/murder, there didn't appear to be a premeditation to kill those two men. Merely, a premeditated robbery gone bad to murder. Having said that, with all the arrests and prison time served by these family members, we dont really know what groups or alliances they have been a part of or formed in their lives or during their stints in prison. All it takes is one "whacked" person or group sending a statement back to a family member through the innocent killings of these young girls.

BTW..Did anyone else find it appalling that you can be on death row and be allowed to have a myspace? Something's not right about that. :behindbar

In other internet news, you can be a penpal to Lakita. Maybe she needs some friends right now, or maybe she could help solve this crime??

http://jesusinme.us/Female_Inmates_Oklahoma.html

GetSmart
07-29-2008, 01:17 AM
As far as I can tell we have not had an official FBI or OSBI profiler release anything yet. I know a poster on topix did a profile, but I am talking about an official on this case.

ArizonaGiGi
07-29-2008, 01:36 AM
[quote=PGW;2427012]The number 6.

I guess if you want gang connotation it could be here's total of six. That is a signature number. The sum total is. But the way it is divided, would be telling you something, too, as in how many days before the next victim/fight. \
Or how many victims.

1 down, five to go. That's just saying if Skylar was in the wrong place at wrong time and the target was Taylor. Those are all if's.

It just possibly could be that the number of shots just has to do with how many rounds of ammunition can be fired from that gun. Might not have any connotation.

You're also thinking perhaps the clown tattoo folks are behind the crime, when actually, they could be the reason the crime was done, aimed at them.
For instance, what is known about the other victim before the robbery murder event? The one up in Kansas.

It might be the guys with the clown tattoos would like to avenge Taylor's death, not be the actual suspects behind what happened.

I'm just trying to put some more viewpoints to this. I read those poems of Linda's and I didn't see anything bizarre or wrong with them. She sounded like a very expressive young person. I read the terrible robbery murders and as horrible as it was, I still don't understand why Lanita has life in prison. She conspired to rob someone, not have them killed. It was not a good thing to do, but she didn't plan murder or participate in murder, and I just really wonder why they stuck the sentencing to her so hard. She wasn't in the room when it happened. I think she should have gotten robbery charges definitely, but not murder attached to it.

This family, for all their troubles, strikes me as a family that makes some bad choices, sometimes but other times just has extremely bad luck. It's quite apparent they loved Taylor, and I really believe they were doing the best they could to lead better lives. I saw at topix some are blaming the grandfather of doing this to cover up another type of crime, and I just do not believe there are indications of that at all.

I won't go into the gang stuff because my knowledge is limited.

PGW, thanks for the gang info. You have more gang info than I do. So could mean something. Time will tell.
GS, it gave me chills too.

frogjustfrog
07-29-2008, 02:09 AM
I'm back, had personal things to tend to for a few days, Took a break from this and came back disheartened because no new news. Several of you have posted really great posts, and Welcome, to the newbies! I'm just stumped as to what to say. I find myself just talking to my Heavenly Father ALOT!
Keep up the wonderful sluething. I feel you all could be on to something. But dont forget about the hermit who lives behind the Plackers. I dont think you will find alot about him on the internet, but talk to a local. It's skeeeeeeer ya!

Trino
07-29-2008, 03:37 AM
FlowerChild, agreed that women generally are the softer sex, but the phone call release has brought no information from females or from anyone. The killer(s) are hard core; they simply saw this as "taking care of business" and may not mention it to anyone, not even girlfriends. I don't think this is huge. Instead, IMO it was a hit, and I suspect someone related to one of the families has a clue - maybe not exactly WHO but why. IMO the person(s) who did this are not local and are long gone from OK.

Dr. Pennypacker
07-29-2008, 07:29 AM
Flower Child, My fiancee is a retired Oklahoma State Trooper, and that is exactly what his thoughts were when he spoke with me following the murders. He thinks it is a hit and probably associated with parents or other relatives.



Well I have come around to the same conclusion.
My initial thoughts were it was a spur of the moment killing by kids.
With all the crime and convicts I know about now I believe it was a HIT!

lilacwine
07-29-2008, 08:05 AM
I've been very upset about death row inmates getting myspace pages...but it's a tricky thing...

they don't have internet access...

someone on the outside sets them up for them......

It's not any different than if they wrote a letter to their local newspaper or someone they wrote letters to.. published them.....

I don't understand the desire people have to connect with these monsters.... like the woman who send love letters to some.

I really hope they find the killers of these two innocent children. As a teacher myself, my prayers are also with the school. It's devastating to be part of a school community when you've lost one of your own. You just watch child after child comprehend death at their own level.. and it's heartbreaking.....

Maggie22
07-29-2008, 09:01 AM
Do we have photos of Skyla's mother? Or information about her?

FlowerChild
07-29-2008, 11:18 AM
FlowerChild, agreed that women generally are the softer sex, but the phone call release has brought no information from females or from anyone. The killer(s) are hard core; they simply saw this as "taking care of business" and may not mention it to anyone, not even girlfriends. I don't think this is huge. Instead, IMO it was a hit, and I suspect someone related to one of the families has a clue - maybe not exactly WHO but why. IMO the person(s) who did this are not local and are long gone from OK.
How would we know the phone call release has brought no new info?? Until an arrest is made, we won't know how (or when) the OSBI go the infor resulting in the arrest of a suspect (or suspects). And we have no idea where OSBI REALLY is in the investigation...they aren't required to tell the public exactly what they are doing (or why). For all we know that tape was released to affect one or two specific people - maybe even someone in, or close to, the family?

My Opinion

Trino
07-29-2008, 11:38 AM
For all we know that tape was released to affect one or two specific people - maybe even someone in, or close to, the family?

I would presume the reason part of the tapes was realeased was to get at someone's conscience. I believe, however, there would be a leak if someone had come forward.

Can we compare the open case of Jessica Lundsford with the closed OSBI investigation? Did it matter in the end? And, if I correctly recall, Elizabeth Smart was found walking along the road by a private citizen.

It seems that being open about the types of guns and/or pictures would get someone thinking. The killer(s) could have a next door neighbor who remembered seeing the guns, but w/o public info about them, how would anyone know? And, what has happened to de-emphasize the POI? The picture is still out there, but several posters on Topix stated some posters in public places had been taken down. Why? Could OSBI address this?

YellowDog
07-29-2008, 12:27 PM
If they don't release at least some tidbits about the investigation, the public will soon push it to the back of their minds and life will go on as before in Weleetka.

I wonder what Taylor's grandparents did for a living where they lived before. And I wonder how long Skyla's parents have lived in the vicinity.

YellowDog
07-29-2008, 12:28 PM
Could we possibly be focusing on the wrong family?

GetSmart
07-29-2008, 02:16 PM
YD I really don't think the focus is on the wrong element. The other family is pretty clean. Nothing that compares to what we have uncovered. The situation has been discussed before, and since this didn't happen at Skylas house is only one reason I really don't lean that way. I know her bro is in jail in KS but he seems to be the only one serving time not like the other band of misfits, gun runners, meth heads ect.. JMO
Honestly at this point who knows, but when it comes down to sleeping with the enemy well you know my opinion.

PGW
07-29-2008, 02:53 PM
Not a good idea to be penpals with inmates, Okie Ties.

YellowDog
07-29-2008, 04:31 PM
YD I really don't think the focus is on the wrong element. The other family is pretty clean. Nothing that compares to what we have uncovered. The situation has been discussed before, and since this didn't happen at Skylas house is only one reason I really don't lean that way. I know her bro is in jail in KS but he seems to be the only one serving time not like the other band of misfits, gun runners, meth heads ect.. JMO
Honestly at this point who knows, but when it comes down to sleeping with the enemy well you know my opinion.

Yes, Taylor's family definitely has the most notorious members. I was just thinking though how people in jail talk to other people in jail. Skyla's brother did murder someone and probably left enemies behind and may have spent time in the Weleetka area before he was locked up.

I'm really grasping at straws through frustration over this case which is being kept so quiet.

Okie ties
07-29-2008, 06:42 PM
Not a good idea to be penpals with inmates, Okie Ties.


Yeah, I know PGW. I posted that comment tongue in cheek. Maybe the sarcasm didn't come through. Thanks anyway.

GetSmart
07-29-2008, 08:13 PM
Okie ties : Yeah, I know PGW. I posted that comment tongue in cheek. Maybe the sarcasm didn't come through. Thanks anyway.

Well Okie Maybe if LE is reading these boards it will give them some idea that the public is wanting to help... I don't know....


Anyone that wants I have made a couple of siggys for the girls & they are in my album if you want to use them :)

Victor
07-30-2008, 12:45 AM
Fantastic post (below), FlowerChild! Thanks for putting so much thought and time into it.
As I posted before:

LET'S TAKE SOME ACTION!

WRITE A LETTER TO THE EDITOR NOW! Here's a link to one of the biggest Oklahoma web news sites, NewsOK.com (the 'Letters to the Editor' section. Scroll all the way to the bottom!);
http://newsok.com/more/articles/?rss...ws.xml?id=1045


"I would like to know the gun types and calibers but not because I believe these guns are being used to kill other people. Bullet casings and bullets were recovered in this case and OSBI/LE would know if the guns had been used before in a murder, or if they had been used again in another murder."

Victor responded: Well, not necessarily. It's a very real possibility that the killers have killed again without having the victim discovered yet.

FlowerChild wrote:
"I don't want the info released out of fear, but so that someone who unwittingly had obtained information on the killers based on the disappearance of said guns, or the appearance of said guns, or someone suddenly getting rid of guns could report the information to LE.

Unless it was a young person using Dad's guns, or the guns have a strong meaning for the killer(s), I think the guns used in this murder are currently at the bottom of a local lake - I don' think even the dumbest killer(s) would hang on to these particular guns KNOWING they can link the directly to these murders. If the killer(s) want to kill again, they won't do it with these guns, they'll just go and buy (or steal) another set of hot "throw away" guns. The killer(s) had plenty of time and yet they left a pile of bullet casings in the road, they didn't care if LE found them WHY? - they had no intention of having these guns long enough to get caught with them."

Victor responded: Again, not necessarily so. There are tons of multiple murder cases where the killer uses the same gun. Probably the most famous is the Son Of Sam case. He used the exact same 44 caliber gun to kill over and over again. You might say "Ya, but he was a total nut."

I'm afraid the same can be said about the murderers of these two little girls.

FlowerChild wrote:

"So yes, I think we should encourage (politely) OSBI to release more information on the guns (and the autopsies). A polite, logical, well thought out letter outlining the reasons we feel such information would be helpful and stating we are still highly motivated to find the POI and/or the killer(s) would be the best way to communicate our interest and our continuing support for all LE who are working to solve this case. I would never suggest OSBI is just being proprietary OR that they don't take getting these weapons of the street seriously - all that will do is get the letter filed under "crackpots". The way to get OSBI to take such a request seriously is to approach them with respect and invite them to give the public more information that could prove to be valuable tool for associates and family members to use in identifying possible POI's in the case.

I would communicate FIRST with the OSBI and the Okfuskee County Sheriff by mail (registered if possible) and follow that letter up with a COPY of the letter (and proof of receipt) to several media (TV and print) outlets in the area - National (Greta Nancy, et al), Oklahoma City AND Tulsa. It's always better to hand media justification to approach LE with a question (such as why are you not responding to all these legitimate requests?) than to just write a letter ranting about how they should put heat on OSBI and Local LE to talk about the guns and other evidence. Usually the media will respond and turn up the heat on ALL the LE working on a case IF it comes with a guaranteed ratings grabbing "hook" they can exploit easily like "the public is outraged". If we give the media the whole thing wrapped in a nice, tidy, easy package they are much more likely to pursue it.

My Opinion

Victor responded: Great strategy, FlowerChild! I think it would a HUGE help to this case to have us posters write to at least the media demanding action. We should demand release of vital info that could help the public catch or turn in these cold-blooded child killers. But I'm afraid it might be a little too involved, time-consuming and expensive for some people to send 'registered' letters with 'Proof Of Receipt' to both LE as well as media sources. Plus, as the Oklahoma police spokeswoman said in the news conferece about this case just the other day, many people are very reluctant to talk directly to police.

If nothing else, at least email a letter to my link at the top (& bottom) of this post. If we posters on this thread wrote even one-tenth of the amount they have posted here already, to the media, we would be sure to get some real action.

Come on, folks, take a few minutes, which you are already doing anyway on this case, and contact the media so they can prod LE to give us some info to catch these killers. If you can find other good media links to write to, please post them here.

Wouldn't it be fantastic if our efforts got LE to give up the type murder weapons used, and it lead to the capture of the killers?

WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

WRITE A LETTER TO THE EDITOR NOW! Here's a link to one of the biggest Oklahoma web news sites, NewsOK.com (the 'Letters to the Editor' section. Scroll all the way to the bottom!);
http://newsok.com/more/articles/?rss...ws.xml?id=1045

Dr. Pennypacker
07-30-2008, 07:43 AM
For whatever reason I don't think LE wants to pursue this case....time will tell.

Claycat
07-30-2008, 09:37 AM
For whatever reason I don't think LE wants to pursue this case....time will tell.

IMO, I believe it's because the killers are among their young people. Lions will protect their cubs.

SailorMoon
07-30-2008, 11:05 AM
I just don't get this whole situation. This is a brutal horrendous crime. Two innocent girls, walking on a country road are just gunned down. What the heck is the deal??? OSBI is either clueless..which by the "heartstring" press conference I believe so. they need to release the caliber of the bullets. That would do something....anything.....

Albert18
07-30-2008, 11:55 AM
All you have to do is look at the activity this case gets on this site now and you reach the conclusion, this case is fading fast. Such a shame.

I've tried to think of all the possible reasons these girls were killed and this is what I came up with.

1. Robbery: No.

2. Sexual attack or attempted attack: I doubt it. Sexual predators are amazingly efficient animals. In a remote location like this those girls would have been gone in a heartbeat. The idea he was interrupted during his attempt to grab them so he killed them doesn't make sense either.

3. Boys horsing around: Every time I see this one I bite my tongue. You have got to be kidding. Boys messing around shoot up road signs, tin cans, other stuff that doesn't move, and maybe a few small animals.

4. Accidental shooting gone bad: This is another "You have got to be kidding."

5. A thrill kill: A possibility.

6. A nut job: A possibility.

7. Somebody high on something: A possibility.

8. A random rage attack: A possibility. This would be like the dad and two sons who were recently gunned down in San Francisco.

9. The girls saw something that day: A possibility.

10: The girls knew something: A possibility.

11. A problem with someone the girls knew: A possibility.

12: Sexual abuse involving someone in the family: A possibility.

13. A problem involving the Placker family: A possiblility.

14. A problem involving the Whitaker family: A possibility.

Am I missing other possible reasons?

There are a lot of possibilities but LE should have evidence that narrows the list considerable. What everybody was doing that day and where they were around 5pm should also narrow the possibilities.

I think the way the girls were shot makes number 5 and 8 unlikely.

The way the Placker family has reacted makes number 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, and 14 unlikely.

If we knew more about where the family was that day we could either rule number 12 in or out.

There is the possibility it could be number 11, young punks in the neighborhood, but why would this cause the Plackers to curl up into a ball. Wouldn't they come out fighting? I don't see the extended Placker family as a bunch of pansies. Is all this talk about how much they loved Taylor a bunch of bunk or is there a reason for their behavior. I think there has to be a reason.

And I assume the Whitaker family is behaving the way they are because they aren't stupid.

noZme
07-30-2008, 01:47 PM
re: albert's list

#3 this was one of my first possible explanantions ... boys horsing around, showing off or seeking revenge for taylor's "telling on a classmate"

but i have a hard time believing kids would have emptied 2 guns..... that seems unlikely...... however, there is no sensible reason for these girls to have been killed. normal, reasonable minds could never justify such.

i only hope investigators know much more than has been released.

FlowerChild
07-30-2008, 01:50 PM
My responses in red...



I've tried to think of all the possible reasons these girls were killed and this is what I came up with.

5. A thrill kill: A possibility.
Multiple shots from 2 guns? That's pretty well executed for a "thrill".

6. A nut job: A possibility.
Nutjobs usually stay close to home so it's a A LOCAL NUTJOB - have they all been cleared? And why would he bring 2 guns?

7. Somebody high on something: A possibility.
Again - multiple shots, 2 guns - doesn't seem likely - just cause you're high doesn't mean you suddenly start shooting kids - plus no paranoia here - they KEPT SHOOTING long after they could have run.

8. A random rage attack: A possibility. This would be like the dad and two sons who were recently gunned down in San Francisco.
I kind of put this in a more complicated thrill-kill/rage category because this isn't OKC or Tulsa. I don't think a rage or vengeance type killer would just be driving around on the sparsly populated rural area dirt roads LOOKING for some people to shoot. It was Sun afternoon, he could have found plenty of people close to the interstate or hwy 75 or walked into a church and killed 25 people....much more satisfying and those types are trying to make a point - a BIG POINT when they kill - two kids in the middle of nowhere doesn't make much of a statement?

9. The girls saw something that day: A possibility.
And that somebody just happened to have two guns with him? Ok maybe two "somebody's", But nobody else who was in the area "saw something"? They saw the POI and the girls, but not the "something"? And what could they have seen to get them killed - it would have to be someone they knew doing the "something", I think. (This is where I wonder about the crazy neighbors - 1 ex-con, one ex mental patient - who could have walked over unseen by passers-by)

10: The girls knew something: A possibility.
Something about what? What could 2 girls "know" that would get them killed execution style? I would think they'd have to know something really significant (and criminal) about someone pretty close to them for murder to be the result.

11. A problem with someone the girls knew: A possibility.
How would that person know where the girls would be at 5PM on that Sunday? Just happened to be driving by with two guns and decided to kill them?

12: Sexual abuse involving someone in the family: A possibility. Neither girl was sexually assaulted - I would take that to mean EVER.

13. A problem involving the Placker family: A possiblility.
Umm, all I can say is "D'oh" - well and I would include cousins (like "baby cousin Nita's" siblings maybe?) and "friends".

14. A problem involving the Whitaker family: A possibility.
Again, how did they know where Skyla was? And why didn't they just go the the Whitaker's house (or the GP's (Farrow's) next door) and kill all of them? Going to the Plackers to kill ONE Whitaker when the Whitakers were having a BBQ that night and would have all been home and outside, seems like a stretch
Am I missing other possible reasons?
There are a lot of possibilities but LE should have evidence that narrows the list considerable. What everybody was doing that day and where they were around 5pm should also narrow the possibilities.

I think the way the girls were shot makes number 5 and 8 unlikely.

The way the Placker family has reacted makes number 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, and 14 unlikely.

If we knew more about where the family was that day we could either rule number 12 in or out. I think we can rule it out on autopsy

There is the possibility it could be number 11, young punks in the neighborhood, but why would this cause the Plackers to curl up into a ball. Wouldn't they come out fighting? I don't see the extended Placker family as a bunch of pansies. Is all this talk about how much they loved Taylor a bunch of bunk or is there a reason for their behavior. I think there has to be a reason.
I think we are left with two possibilities - #6 a local nutcase who had some sort of real or imagined "grudge against the Plackers or kids and #12 The Paschal-Placker extended family and their associates. They had just had a family gathering 2 weeks before...who was there? Does anybody besides "baby cousin Nita" hang out with hard core gang bangers? How about Bandidos Bikers?
And I assume the Whitaker family is behaving the way they are because they aren't stupid.

I think they played that 911 tape for the FAMILY - so they could hear what they did to Vicky and Peter. I think somebody in the family KNOWS what happened and is too afraid of the family reaction to admit THEY might be the reason Taylor is dead. Keep quiet - family still loves you, talk and family hates you AND you rat somebody else out..hate from 2 sides.

My Opinion

YellowDog
07-30-2008, 02:39 PM
There is another possibility.............the girls had a prearranged meeting via cell phone or computer with a person or persons. Perhaps there was a grudge or fight going on amongst them and they met to settle things once and for all. Kids can be cruel and some get so hurt by teasing or feeling like an outcast that the hate grows in them like a cancer. If it was kids who did this they had to be well versed in guns.......not someone who took Daddy's gun out of the closet and was shooting it for the first time.

Have the genders of the people on the bridge that day ever been disclosed? Was it a meeting place where boy meets girl kind of place? A place to hang out and drink beer?
A demarcation line of sorts between the kids living in town and the kids living in the country? A swimming place?

Okie ties
07-30-2008, 02:57 PM
Flowerchild and Albert,
Kudos to posting a well thought out list of possibilities and then answering it logically.

FC, I did not make the same assumption about sexual abuse. Just because the coroner said the girls had not been sexually assaulted, do we really have proof that some type of sexual abuse hadn't previously taken place? And would they really release that information making a potential suspect hide further? Also, I don't think we know whether either of the girls had been sexually active. While I am hoping and praying that hadn't happened, we have to be realistic about the things they are going on in the world at very young ages and specifically in small towns where there is not a lot of "entertainment" and things for kids to do. Sexual abuse can happen in any type of family, from the weathliest to the poorest. When sexual abuse happens to kids that age, they are extremely confused. Sometimes feeling that they encouraged it or somehow were responsible for the actions of others.

EGirl
07-30-2008, 04:00 PM
I would like to add that Insane Clown Possee isn't a GANG. It's a musical group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insane_Clown_Posse

FlowerChild
07-30-2008, 04:24 PM
There is another possibility.............the girls had a prearranged meeting via cell phone or computer with a person or persons. Perhaps there was a grudge or fight going on amongst them and they met to settle things once and for all. Kids can be cruel and some get so hurt by teasing or feeling like an outcast that the hate grows in them like a cancer. If it was kids who did this they had to be well versed in guns.......not someone who took Daddy's gun out of the closet and was shooting it for the first time.

Have the genders of the people on the bridge that day ever been disclosed? Was it a meeting place where boy meets girl kind of place? A place to hang out and drink beer?
A demarcation line of sorts between the kids living in town and the kids living in the country? A swimming place?

There was nobody at the bridge at the time the girls were there, the girls were seen in the area, nobody at the bridge. And a meeting would have shown up on either a phone or a computer - nothing.

LE obviously knows where the immediate family members of each girl were when they were killed - so familial abuse would not have been a possible motive.

If it was an arranged meeting, there was ANYBODY at the bridge or LE/OSBI had found ANY signs of sexual activity or sexual abuse we wouldn't still be wondering who and why 8 weeks later. All of those factors make the case a pretty clear slam dunk - within days. There is no need to wait and watch THOSE suspects, you have EVIDENCE - you can haul them in on day one.

That didn't happen, and thus meeting someone that had contact with them prior or either child having signs of sexual activity are pretty much off the table. Plus, if it was one child a perv had contact with, why not wait and grab THAT CHILD? Why leave the "evidence" lying alongside the road when it's obvious the girls could have been grabbed, abused more and then buried miles away and no-one would have seen it happen..and by the time they were found (if they ever were) any evidence would be long-gone.

My Opinion

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 05:18 PM
Hello all. Have watched the forum since day one...finally got in. Alot of good posts have gone up. Glad to see interest outside of the area.

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 05:46 PM
I wonder, have many of you done any searching into the case involving Skyla's brother?

Tom'sGirl
07-30-2008, 06:01 PM
I wonder, have many of you done any searching into the case involving Skyla's brother?

Skyla's older brother Edward Gordon is currently in a Kansas jail and will soon be going to prison on manslaughter charges for his part in a drug deal gone wrong.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2404058&postcount=1

GetSmart
07-30-2008, 06:04 PM
Flowerchild made a thread on the front page of our case discussion
Try here. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68034

Welcome

YellowDog
07-30-2008, 06:12 PM
There was nobody at the bridge at the time the girls were there, the girls were seen in the area, nobody at the bridge. And a meeting would have shown up on either a phone or a computer - nothing.

If nobody was at the bridge at that time, how does anyone know the girls ever made it to the bridge? And how do we know something didn't show up on their phones or computers? That information hasn't been released as far as I know.

LE obviously knows where the immediate family members of each girl were when they were killed - so familial abuse would not have been a possible motive.

If it was an arranged meeting, there was ANYBODY at the bridge or LE/OSBI had found ANY signs of sexual activity or sexual abuse we wouldn't still be wondering who and why 8 weeks later. All of those factors make the case a pretty clear slam dunk - within days. There is no need to wait and watch THOSE suspects, you have EVIDENCE - you can haul them in on day one.

I wasn't referring to a sexual encounter. It's pretty obvious sex wasn't the motive since the girls were still clothed. That doesn't mean they might not have had an ongoing fued with some other teens.

That didn't happen, and thus meeting someone that had contact with them prior or either child having signs of sexual activity are pretty much off the table. Plus, if it was one child a perv had contact with, why not wait and grab THAT CHILD? Why leave the "evidence" lying alongside the road when it's obvious the girls could have been grabbed, abused more and then buried miles away and no-one would have seen it happen..and by the time they were found (if they ever were) any evidence would be long-gone.

I've never thought it was a pervert or a sexual predator. I believe it was an execution. The question is WHY?


My Opinion

.................................................. ....................

GetSmart
07-30-2008, 06:22 PM
I wonder, have many of you done any searching into the case involving Skyla's brother?


http://www.morningsun.net/homepage/x1346895287/Gordon-receives-10-year-sentence


The Morning Sun
Posted Jul 30, 2008 @ 12:33 AM
COLUMBUS ó
Edward Gordon was sentenced to 10 years in prison Monday for the second-degree murder of Jamey Richardson.
Gordon was found guilty of second-degree murder after entering a plea deal, part of which included testimony against co-defendants Samuel Becker and Aaron Graham.
But Gordon was never called to the stand by the prosecution in the Becker case, though Becker was found guilty of 11 of 12 counts, including felony murder, kidnapping, aggravated burglary and aggravated assault. He was then sentenced to life plus 68 months in Cherokee County District Court.
Gordon never testified against Graham either ó after the Becker decision, Graham elected to enter a plea deal as well, pleading guilty to first-degree murder. Grahamís sentencing is set for September, when he will likely receive life imprisonment, with the possibility for parole in 20 years.

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 06:38 PM
Yes, I have read the articles concerning his case. I just find it quite strange the reason behind the murder of the Richardson guy. According to an article in one of the Kansas papers, it all stemmed from a safe of Edward Gordon's containing drugs and money.

Trino
07-30-2008, 06:41 PM
I would like to add that Insane Clown Possee isn't a GANG. It's a musical group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insane_Clown_Posse

Wikipedia doesn't tell it all. Insane Clown Possee is BOTH a musical group and a gang. Google Insane Clown Possee + gangs, and you will get gang results.

SailorMoon
07-30-2008, 06:47 PM
However, as we've discussed, fans of ICP aren't automatically gang members. I'm as far from a gangster as you can get.


Wikipedia doesn't tell it all. Insane Clown Possee is BOTH a musical group and a gang. Google Insane Clown Possee + gangs, and you will get gang results.

GetSmart
07-30-2008, 06:48 PM
This case JMO does not lead me to abuse.. I might have eat my words.

FlowerChild post : There was nobody at the bridge at the time the girls were there, the girls were seen in the area, nobody at the bridge. And a meeting would have shown up on either a phone or a computer - nothing.

LE obviously knows where the immediate family members of each girl were when they were killed - so familial abuse would not have been a possible motive.

If it was an arranged meeting, there was ANYBODY at the bridge or LE/OSBI had found ANY signs of sexual activity or sexual abuse we wouldn't still be wondering who and why 8 weeks later. All of those factors make the case a pretty clear slam dunk - within days. There is no need to wait and watch THOSE suspects, you have EVIDENCE - you can haul them in on day one.

That didn't happen, and thus meeting someone that had contact with them prior or either child having signs of sexual activity are pretty much off the table. Plus, if it was one child a perv had contact with, why not wait and grab THAT CHILD? Why leave the "evidence" lying alongside the road when it's obvious the girls could have been grabbed, abused more and then buried miles away and no-one would have seen it happen..and by the time they were found (if they ever were) any evidence would be long-gone.


Sexual assult did not take place & I really believe there was no evidence to that prior to murder. I believe this murder was a message, a hit, & as LE stated they wanted these girls DEAD. They knew how to acheive this murder quickly & haul butt.


------------
What Albert said : I don't see the extended Placker family as a bunch of pansies. Is all this talk about how much they loved Taylor a bunch of bunk or is there a reason for their behavior. I think there has to be a reason.

And I assume the Whitaker family is behaving the way they are because they aren't stupid.
YES YES YES Albert you got it !!

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 06:54 PM
This case JMO does not lead me to abuse.. I might have eat my words.

FlowerChild post : There was nobody at the bridge at the time the girls were there, the girls were seen in the area, nobody at the bridge. And a meeting would have shown up on either a phone or a computer - nothing.

LE obviously knows where the immediate family members of each girl were when they were killed - so familial abuse would not have been a possible motive.

If it was an arranged meeting, there was ANYBODY at the bridge or LE/OSBI had found ANY signs of sexual activity or sexual abuse we wouldn't still be wondering who and why 8 weeks later. All of those factors make the case a pretty clear slam dunk - within days. There is no need to wait and watch THOSE suspects, you have EVIDENCE - you can haul them in on day one.

That didn't happen, and thus meeting someone that had contact with them prior or either child having signs of sexual activity are pretty much off the table. Plus, if it was one child a perv had contact with, why not wait and grab THAT CHILD? Why leave the "evidence" lying alongside the road when it's obvious the girls could have been grabbed, abused more and then buried miles away and no-one would have seen it happen..and by the time they were found (if they ever were) any evidence would be long-gone.


Sexual assult did not take place & I really believe there was no evidence to that prior to murder. I believe this murder was a message, a hit, & as LE stated they wanted these girls DEAD. They knew how to acheive this murder quickly & haul butt.









I agree that for the crime itself, sexual assult doesn't seem to be the motive IMO. However, from what I have heard, Skyla did suffer from abuse during her life.

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 06:56 PM
I don't know, IMO from reading the information about Skyla's, I would think the other guys involved/the victim's friends/family would have a reason for revenge, IMO.

FlowerChild
07-30-2008, 06:58 PM
IF the computers and cell phones had produced a lead, don'cha think someone might have been arrested by now? I don't think they found diddley-squat on either the phones or the computers.

The sexual abuse/perv response was directed more at Okie Ties - who suggested that the girls might have been having sex or were abused in the weeks or months BEFORE they were killed. I was suggesting that I didn't believe they found ANY evidence either girl was sexually active EVER because the investigation has NEVER even so much as hinted at that sort of evidence being involved.

The person who saw the girls walking BACK to the house from the bridge didn't see anyone on the bridge so the kids Skyla and Taylor might have been feuding with would know they were going to be walking to the bridge how? The girls probably were out there less than 30 minutes before they were killed - if the girls didn't call someone, if there were no other kids at the bridge, then how did their enemies (who we assume were over 16) manage to get over there to kill them in that short time frame? Were they just driving around with their guns all the time HOPING they would get a chance to kill the girls? ANY calls or IM's or text messages or #'s the girls called within the hours, even days BEFORE their murders would have all been recoverable - and the OSBI would have been right on the recipients of those communications ASAP. AND If it was kids, calling OTHER kids to set up the girls, thats at least 2 or 3 involved and I cannot imagine they would ALL still be stone cold silent after 2 months. We have to remember only 97 kids in their school, only 9 other 5th and 6th grade classmates in ELMENTARY SCHOOL - all of them 10-11-12 except for Taylor. Where would two grade school girls be interfacing (and starting a feud) with MUCH older kids who would have a car AND guns? I doubt any of the older kids were hanging out with the ELEMENTARY "little kids" and neither girl had older siblings at the school to put them in contact with older kids. Both loved school, made A's and were well liked - Taylor was elected the Elementary School "Queen".

I still think execution - and if the POI wasn't the killer, maybe he was the lookout? Maybe he staked out the Placker House, called the killer(s) when the Plackers left and when he say Skyla and Taylor start their walk and after it was done, verified the job was complete? I just can't get out of my head that SOMEBODY was watching the Placker house and had NO IDEA who they were killing, just SOMEBODY that came out of that house. In fact, the killers could have been at the WRONG PAschal or Placker house - maybe they were after Tony, or Jessie PAschal? Or maybe Christopher, or Joe or Linda Placker and thought they lived there? I don't think the killers were after Taylor and Skyla - I think they were after getting even with a Paschal or Placker and when Peter and Vicky left home and the girls went out alone, they had their chance. Maybe the killer(s) thought the person they were really trying to get to was INSIDE the house still, and didn't want a showdown - especially since the girls were right there, so tempting and so easy....

Your mileage may vary
My Opinion

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 07:07 PM
I still think execution - and if the POI wasn't the killer, maybe he was the lookout? Maybe he staked out the Placker House, called the killer(s) when the Plackers left and when he say Skyla and Taylor start their walk and after it was done, verified the job was complete? I just can't get out of my head that SOMEBODY was watching the Placker house and had NO IDEA who they were killing, just SOMEBODY that came out of that house. In fact, the killers could have been at the WRONG PAschal or Placker house - maybe they were after Tony, or Jessie PAschal? Or maybe Christopher, or Joe or Linda Placker and thought they lived there? I don't think the killers were after Taylor and Skyla - I think they were after getting even with a Paschal or Placker and when Peter and Vicky left home and the girls went out alone, they had their chance. Maybe the killer(s) thought the person they were really trying to get to was INSIDE the house still, and didn't want a showdown - especially since the girls were right there, so tempting and so easy....

Your mileage may vary
My Opinion

I must say, FC, I agree with most of what you have said here. Maybe they didn't know who they were going after, maybe the POI was staking things out to see that the job was done. Or maybe they knew exactly who they were going after and knew she would be there that weekend and when her and her friend took off walking, they closed in, shot them however many times and drove away, back to Kansas?

GetSmart
07-30-2008, 07:13 PM
Wikipedia doesn't tell it all. Insane Clown Possee is BOTH a musical group and a gang. Google Insane Clown Possee + gangs, and you will get gang results.

http://zeara420.tripod.com/id13.html

In the early 90s in Southwest Detroit, Joseph Bruce (Violent J) and Joseph Utsler (Shaggy 2 Dope) along with neighborhood homies started an ill-fated street gang called Inner City Posse. They also began to rap, with the mildly successful independent release, Dog Beats. Yet, having little knowledge of real gang life and with their music gaining them some notoriety, Inner City Posse lasted but 2 years after being targeted by established Southwest Detroit gangs. However in 1991, after Violent J's return from his 4th trip to county jail, J and Shaggy were visited one night by spirits of a mysterious Dark Carnival. These neutral phantoms named J and Shaggy their messengers and issued that they deliver six special messages to all that will listen before the end consumes us all. Now, we'll admit, it's a little hard to swallow, but it's interesting none the less. J and Shaggy quit their own gang and changed their rapping name from Inner City Posse to Insane Clown Posse. Having been told that each message will come when the time is right, they decided to expose the magic messages in the form of six albums, each taking on its own identity in the form of Jokers Cards, and each preaching another one of the Dark Carnival's messages to the world. Be they clown messengers spreading the words of the Dark Carnival or simply buffoons, this strange Detroit rap group is here to stay. With painted faces, heavy carnival beats and demented, vulgar lyrics injected with positive messages and magic, you have the band you love to hate: the Insane Clown Posse. After some initial problems and financial difficulty, ICP recorded and released its first Jokers Card, Carnival of Carnage, in October 1992. It was soon followed by the EP, Beverly Kills 50187, and the 2nd Jokers Card, The Ringmaster, in 1993. Sales were stronger than expected and the Detroit music scene began to lift its head. Another EP entitled Terror Wheel was released, spawning a local Radio hit entitled Dead Body Man and it was soon apparent that they had a rabid following in Detroit and the Midwest. It wasn't long until record labels began to try to cash in. ICP, looking to spread the message of the Dark Carnival, quickly signed up with Jive Records but shortly after the release of the 3rd Joker's Card, The Riddlebox, Jive's true plan were uncovered. They would release the new album only in Michigan, with no push, and make all the money for themselves. An easy sell for the work ICP had already done. Insane Clown Posse and their new elite Psychopathic Records Team (led by Alex Abbiss their manager, Billy Bill, & Jumpsteady) developed a unique strategy never seen before in the music industry. They assembled street teams, samplers and Riddlebox Vans, and traveled throughout the country, speaking to people personally about the Dark Carnival, ICP, and Psychopathic Records and they would not leave until everyone was informed. Once their work was finished, they left the newly designated Clown Town to start once again in another city. Meanwhile, Insane Clown Posse toured the country, bringing its riotous live performance across the US, which involve full theatric stage sets, costumed monsters, and gallons of Faygo Soda (a cheap soda manufactured in Detroit) being poured all over the audience. Thousands of newly found Juggalos would fill venues to capacity, just to catch a glimpse of an Insane Clown Posse show. ICP went to Hollywood Records to promote their 4th Joker's Card, The Great Milenko. Yet, 6 hours after its release, it was recalled. Hollywood Records owner

Trino
07-30-2008, 08:25 PM
Call ICP what you want, but if it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, then it is a duck.

ICP is violent, they have gang-like tatoos, and they act like a gang. Example: see story below:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003121207_insaneclowns12m.html

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 08:59 PM
I have personally never listened to ICP but know that the early 30, 20 & teenage people that do listen to them regularly, usually scare me. Maybe I scare easily, but something just isn't right about them.

little726
07-30-2008, 09:20 PM
"Just remember, what goes around comes around. And someday, every word and everything that others have done to my family, will come back around and bite them. HARD."

This is an exact quote taken from Angela Graham's MySpace web page. They were written in late May 2008. Angela's husband is Aaron Graham.

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 09:31 PM
"Just remember, what goes around comes around. And someday, every word and everything that others have done to my family, will come back around and bite them. HARD."

This is an exact quote taken from Angela Graham's MySpace web page. They were written in late May 2008. Angela's husband is Aaron Graham.

Thanks for posting this. Do you have a link to her page by chance? I can't help but think that those involved in the case with Skyla's brother would have good reason for revenge.

little726
07-30-2008, 09:42 PM
Thanks for posting this. Do you have a link to her page by chance? I can't help but think that those involved in the case with Skyla's brother would have good reason for revenge.

I'm not good at posting links, but I do have her member # 78181060.

GetSmart
07-30-2008, 09:42 PM
♥ AnGelA g ♥
http://a757.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/15/m_916a9ed8ebc970392271ff0c54d4a12c.jpg (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=78181060)http://x.myspacecdn.com/modules/common/static/img/clear.gif" "Let evil recoil on those who slander me; in your faithfulness destroy them.I will praise your name, O Lord, for it is good. For he has delivered me from all my troubles, and my eyes have looked in triumph on my foes" Psalm 54:5-7"

Female
31 years old
PITTSBURG, Kansas
United States

little726
07-30-2008, 09:51 PM
Yep, GS. It's posted on her blog: Just A Note on Life Right Now.

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 09:53 PM
I'm not good at posting links, but I do have her member # 78181060.

I found her, she has Aaron as one of her friends. They reference the case but are trying to put it behind them. I'm not too good at trying to uncover how people are linked to others. In reading the articles of the trial, there were a number of people involved.

Tom'sGirl
07-30-2008, 10:10 PM
♥ AnGelA g ♥
" "Let evil recoil on those who slander me; in your faithfulness destroy them.I will praise your name, O Lord, for it is good. For he has delivered me from all my troubles, and my eyes have looked in triumph on my foes" Psalm 54:5-7"

Female
31 years old
PITTSBURG, Kansas
United States
Where are we going with this, what did I miss? :)

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 10:18 PM
Where are we going with this, what did I miss? :)

Sorry Tom'sGirl, I am new here. I have just mentioned that the case in Kansas involving Skyla's brother may have something to do with the murders.

Tom'sGirl
07-30-2008, 10:24 PM
Sorry Tom'sGirl, I am new here. I have just mentioned that the case in Kansas involving Skyla's brother may have something to do with the murders.
Nothing to be sorry about, I just don't see where we're going with this and Aaron's wife's MySpace page :confused:

Just Nose'n around
07-30-2008, 10:37 PM
Nothing to be sorry about, I just don't see where we're going with this and Aaron's wife's MySpace page :confused:

Well there were numerous people involved in the trial, killing and what led up to it. Angela is the wife of one of the main 3 guys in the trial. Just thought we might find some information on there. But didn't find too much...does that help?

GetSmart
07-30-2008, 10:39 PM
"Just remember, what goes around comes around. And someday, every word and everything that others have done to my family, will come back around and bite them. HARD."

This is an exact quote taken from Angela Graham's MySpace web page. They were written in late May 2008. Angela's husband is Aaron Graham.

little found this & I wasn't sure it was the same person.

little726
07-30-2008, 10:43 PM
"Just remember, what goes around comes around. And someday, every word and everything that others have done to my family, will come back around and bite them. HARD."

This is an exact quote taken from Angela Graham's MySpace web page. They were written in late May 2008. Angela's husband is Aaron Graham.

TG...We (I) was just looking at the "revenge" angle where Skyla's brother was concerened.

Tom'sGirl
07-30-2008, 10:48 PM
little found this & I wasn't sure it was the same person.
I wonder if she'll now set her page to Private, I think I would :)

Busylady
07-30-2008, 10:51 PM
I looked at their pages a few days ago and it appears they are trying to put it behind them and move forward with their lives. They look like nice family people that are trying to do the best they can do. I can not imagine them having anything to do with what happened to Skyla and Taylor.

Tom'sGirl
07-30-2008, 10:58 PM
I looked at their pages a few days ago and it appears they are trying to put it behind them and move forward with their lives. They look like nice family people that are trying to do the best they can do. I can not imagine them having anything to do with what happened to Skyla and Taylor.
I agree Busy!

little726
07-30-2008, 11:04 PM
Did the people of Weleetka ever "imagine" they would have to deal with the murders of two young girls?

Like I said over a week ago.....this is only my opinion.

GetSmart
07-30-2008, 11:16 PM
I agree I think they are trying to move on. Can you just imagine guilty by association. Therefore I go but by the grace of God.

Just Nose'n around
07-31-2008, 12:04 AM
I looked at their pages a few days ago and it appears they are trying to put it behind them and move forward with their lives. They look like nice family people that are trying to do the best they can do. I can not imagine them having anything to do with what happened to Skyla and Taylor.

I agree, Busy, sorry if there was confusion. I was just mentioning the case with Skyla's brother. The woman's husband happened to be one of the ones involved and happened to have a MySpace page. I don't think we assumed they were the ones that possibly would have had something to do with the girls' murders. I do think that the rest of those involved in the case with Gordon should be looked into. With what all I have read about it, some one involved may have seen a reason for revenge. IMO

sheza
07-31-2008, 06:57 AM
Did the people of Weleetka ever "imagine" they would have to deal with the murders of two young girls?

Like I said over a week ago.....this is only my opinion.

It has been a nightmare!
You could have asked anyone living in or around Weleetka (the day before the murders happened) and everyone would have told you Weleetka is a great place to live and raise children.. Skyla's GP Jim Farrow has lived here all his life and Farrow's GGP & GGGP ect. This family did not feel this way before Skyla's murder...now it's certainly understanable why they would feel this way now.
We pray that the killer/killers will be found...If these murderers live here they are NOT FROM here..
This kind of EVIL grew up somewhere else...not here.

Sorry, our emotions in Weleetka are very high.
We may not have the highest of education, our wages are low, but
OUR children are everything.

Busylady
07-31-2008, 07:14 AM
I can not even imagine how this tragedy has shook the town of Weleetka. Everyone has to be uneasy and be grieving all at the same time. I pray that they find out who committed this horrible act and took away the lives of two young girls.


It has been a nightmare!
You could have asked anyone living in or around Weleetka (the day before the murders happened) and everyone would have told you Weleetka is a great place to live and raise children.. Skyla's GP Jim Farrow has lived here all his life and Farrow's GGP & GGGP ect. This family did not feel this way before Skyla's murder...now it's certainly understanable why they would feel this way now.
We pray that the killer/killers will be found...If these murderers live here they are NOT FROM here..
This kind of EVIL grew up somewhere else...not here.

Sorry, our emotions in Weleetka are very high.
We may not have the highest of education, our wages are low, but
OUR children are everything.

Just Nose'n around
07-31-2008, 09:06 AM
I can not even imagine how this tragedy has shook the town of Weleetka. Everyone has to be uneasy and be grieving all at the same time. I pray that they find out who committed this horrible act and took away the lives of two young girls.

Something I think some people are forgetting is that it's not just Weleetka that is grieving, searching for answers, scared, etc. These girls were just as close to Henryetta as they were Weleetka. Their school was just a few miles from Henryetta. Their parents work in Henryetta. Weleetka may be in the same county as that side of the road, but Henryetta was hit just as hard.

lilacwine
07-31-2008, 09:15 AM
I'm a high school teacher and some of the kindest... most picked on kids I have known have listened to ICP..... they were jumped and beaten because they were the ICP kids.... and they ran in fear because they're very non-violent.

Another HS in my city has some "ICP kids" as they are called.... who are vicious and mean thugs.

Albert18
07-31-2008, 10:56 AM
I looked at their pages a few days ago and it appears they are trying to put it behind them and move forward with their lives. They look like nice family people that are trying to do the best they can do. I can not imagine them having anything to do with what happened to Skyla and Taylor.

Now I am miising something.

This Angela Graham is the wife of Aaron Graham, the guy who plead guilty to first degree murder of Richardson?

So who are the nice family people?

SailorMoon
07-31-2008, 11:13 AM
Just to say it again...I listen or more like have listened to ICP. I am non violent, church going and have 3 very smart and talented kids who also listen/have listened to it.

To me, its like saying Ozzy's songs or Judas Priests songs make teens commit suicide. No one makes anyone do anything. Stop blaming other people and other things for everything and put the blame where it belongs....the person/individual.

Okay....now that I'm off that soapbox...let's throw this a different direction. We've talked about kids, maybe mad because the girls were telling on them or something. But what about a parent of some kid, who was really tired of 2 trouble making/nosy girls (in the parents mind, not mind) who wouldn't mind their own business and kept getting their kid(s) in trouble and they put a quick and efficient stop to it. That would explain the silence, they aren't going to rat on themselves, and as long as their kids have an alibi, everything is hunky dory. You know some parents are real freaks about people -- whether it be kids or adults--messing with their kids. I wonder if that angle has been looked at - at all.

sheza
07-31-2008, 11:15 AM
Something I think some people are forgetting is that it's not just Weleetka that is grieving, searching for answers, scared, etc. These girls were just as close to Henryetta as they were Weleetka. Their school was just a few miles from Henryetta. Their parents work in Henryetta. Weleetka may be in the same county as that side of the road, but Henryetta was hit just as hard.

You are so right, Henryetta-Bryant-Graham-Dustin-Okemah-Ryal-Weleetka
are all searching for answers.
So why is it just Weleetka's drug problem-thugs-ect..
When OSBI said they were checking out 500 leads-350 felons records,
it's in 3 county's Okfuskee-Okmulgee-Hughs.
The teenage boy's OSBI was checking out were from Henryetta-Bryant-Ryal.
Henryetta is abt 13 miles from the murder scene-
Bryant 3 miles-Ryal 15 miles-Graham 5 miles-Dustin 10 miles-Okmulgee 35 miles.
Please don't think Weleetka as an Evil place and all the people living here are Evil druggies/thugs.

Dr. Pennypacker
07-31-2008, 11:26 AM
You are so right, Henryetta-Bryant-Graham-Dustin-Okemah-Ryal-Weleetka
are all searching for answers.
So why is it just Weleetka's drug problem-thugs-ect..
When OSBI said they were checking out 500 leads-350 felons records,
it's in 3 county's Okfuskee-Okmulgee-Hughs.
The teenage boy's OSBI was checking out were from Henryetta-Bryant-Ryal.
Henryetta is abt 13 miles from the murder scene-
Bryant 3 miles-Ryal 15 miles-Graham 5 miles-Dustin 10 miles-Okmulgee 35 miles.
Please don't think Weleetka as an Evil place and all the people living here are Evil druggies/thugs.

Thank you. Point taken.

annie mae
07-31-2008, 11:36 AM
I am a long time lurker and first time poster on websleuths. I have been trying to get on and finally found a way through my verizon system. I posted these same comments on topix a couple days ago, but wanted to bring them over here for any additional input. This is in response to the following posted by flowerchild:

Originally Posted by FlowerChild
I found "baby cousin Nita"

Not sure which Placker/Paschal is related to Lanita Sue Bateman AKA "Baby Cousin Nita" From Linda K Placker's Web Site
http://v4mp-b1tch.tripod.com/id14.html

but Lanita a CONVICTED MURDERER IN PRISON FOR LIFE
and the crime was Gang Related thru Nita's Boyfriend Zjaiton Wood (Life Sentence) and his brother Tremaine (Tremane) Wood (Death Sentence)
It occurred in Oklahoma City, Jan 1, 2001 - Lanita was 18 years old.

Lanita Sue Bateman AKA "Baby Cousin Nita" (BD 1/12/1982)

Murder 1st Degree (sentenced to life 6-11-03)
also guilty of robbery with a firearm, conspiracy to commit a felony
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/se...7&imageindex=2
About The Murder
http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...?citeid=448920
Zjaiton Wood Lanita's Boyfriend and Co-Defendant Now Serving LWOP
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/se...1&imageindex=3
Tremaine Wood Lanita's Co-Defendant Now On Death Row
http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/se...9&imageindex=7

If anybody can figure out how "Nita" is Linda's cousin and what Gang Affiliation the Wood Bros have/had that would be great - I have read/researched myself blind finding all of this.


From the day my daughter notified me that the news station she works for had reported this story, I began doing all the family history criminal background stuff. The one sight that kept coming back to me was Linda Kaye Placker's website with the inmate pictures and strange poems. I couldn't shake the feeling that there was more to this family story and it was right there staring me in the face. When I saw the post from Flowerchild, it all kind of came back to me. I looked up her link on Nita's boyfriend, ZJAITON T WOOD, and noticed all the tats on his body. The ones that stood out were the clowns. Earlier on WS, PGW posted about clown pictures in the guestbook at the funeral. There was some speculation about what that could mean and some possible affiliation to the insane clown posse. This is a gang with a violent history. Also on Linda Kaye Placker's web site, she has a tab for friends poems.

http://v4mp-b1tch.tripod.com/id14.html

There are some poems by "Dark Angel". I searched around myspace and found a dark angel that might be the same one Linda Kaye is referring to. Interestingly enough, when I looked at his pics, I noticed that he is a member of the "insane clown posse".

Flowerchild, you impress me over and over again with your ability to see beyond the norm and separate emotion from fact. This killing was, in my opinion, a hit and probably a retaliation. The gang ties, including the bandidos, continue to haunt me.

Like many of you, I can't stop thinking about this case, it consumes me.. so many unanswered questions.. believing the LE, OSBI and FBI know so much more but can't share it yet. I will rest more peacefully when this case is solved and I pray often that the truth will be revealed.:behindbar
Both the "Wood" brothers are members of the "Hoovers". This gang is strong in Oklahoma, Tulsa has many. I could not locate the crime they commited but why Lanita received "Life" is beyond me. They had their shooter.

GetSmart
07-31-2008, 11:58 AM
Yea I found that info awhile back because pf tattoos on prison record 107 Hoover

Gangs
http://www.gangsorus.com/initiations1.htm


Joining a prison gang literally means "Blood in - Blood out." Prison gangs not wanting law enforcement agencies to try and infiltrate the gang by placing an informant or undercover agent in the group, generally require a prospective member to murder or seriously assault someone in the prison. This "assures" the leadership that the individual's loyalty and is on the up and up. Theoretically, if he has killed someone, he will not reveal to the authorities, other acts of violence he may know about or witness.

Street Gangs- Other Forms of Initiation
Armed robbery - inductee(s) commit the crime of armed robbery and frequently shoot the victim(s) for no reason
Drive-by shooting
Assault on an innocent victim
Murder - The inductee is required to kill an innocent victim, a rival gang member, or even a police officer

concentric
07-31-2008, 01:24 PM
Now I am miising something.

So who are the nice family people?

Tell me about it. There are people on these boards who will never want to understand that family members are involved.

Just Nose'n around
07-31-2008, 01:30 PM
You are so right, Henryetta-Bryant-Graham-Dustin-Okemah-Ryal-Weleetka
are all searching for answers.
So why is it just Weleetka's drug problem-thugs-ect..
When OSBI said they were checking out 500 leads-350 felons records,
it's in 3 county's Okfuskee-Okmulgee-Hughs.
The teenage boy's OSBI was checking out were from Henryetta-Bryant-Ryal.
Henryetta is abt 13 miles from the murder scene-
Bryant 3 miles-Ryal 15 miles-Graham 5 miles-Dustin 10 miles-Okmulgee 35 miles.
Please don't think Weleetka as an Evil place and all the people living here are Evil druggies/thugs.


I agree with what you are saying, but am a little confused on your distances. I have lived in Henryetta my entire life and have always considered that whole area down around where the Plackers live to be Bryant, not Bryant being 3 miles away from it. I guess Henryetta being 13 miles away is measured from center of town or something. I haven't checked, but I'm not sure that Henryetta is any farther from the scene than Weleetka is. Yes, those boys were from Henryetta and we haven't seen hide or hair of them since...

YellowDog
07-31-2008, 01:45 PM
I agree with what you are saying, but am a little confused on your distances. I have lived in Henryetta my entire life and have always considered that whole area down around where the Plackers live to be Bryant, not Bryant being 3 miles away from it. I guess Henryetta being 13 miles away is measured from center of town or something. I haven't checked, but I'm not sure that Henryetta is any farther from the scene than Weleetka is. Yes, those boys were from Henryetta and we haven't seen hide or hair of them since...


Hi Just Nose'n:

Are you saying these so called witnesses have totally disappeared from the area? Were you familiar with the bridge being a hangout of sorts before the murders?

FlowerChild
07-31-2008, 01:56 PM
I have some interesting infor from Weleetka locals. Now THIS is just hearsay at present - a "someone in LE is talking about new developments" type talk. BUT the latest word from someone who is actually a member of LE involved in the investigation says that there were body fluids (urine or semen?) present on/near/around the bodies - on the outside - as in the killer(s) stood over them and deposited fluids after they were dead. So they do have DNA and they will be able to prove that a suspect was at the scene at the time (or immediately after) the girls were killed.

My interest in this is that IF IT'S TRUE, what it SAYS about the killer or the motive or WHO this may have been directed toward. Is this a signature for gangs, bikers etc? Why would the killer do this? What was he trying to say with this gesture? Did he not understand that DNA CAN be recovered from this or did he think once it dried, since the scene was outside, LE would miss it? Or is he young/stupid or just doesn't care? Obviously his DNA was NOT on file already but at some point I think if this is true they WILL find out who did this - because someone who would do this to two kids is twisted enough to do other things that will get him nailed.

Things have been pretty quiet locally (according to my source there) but people are concerned and want this solved. Don't know about OSBI but local LE is working on it daily - it has not been forgotten and it is NOT "cold" at all as far as they are concerned. They continue to get leads and track old leads and talk to people every day in an effort to find the killer(s).

I am off to find out who (historically) might make a statement like this with bodies of victims to see if it "fits" anything we already know. Could just be BS, but I figure it's worth a bit of digging.

My Opinion

YellowDog
07-31-2008, 02:08 PM
IF this information is true, it sounds more like something a Serial Killer would do to get sexual satisfaction (ala BTK). It doesn't seem like something that someone doing a vendetta killing would do. And this would lean toward one shooter and not two.

YellowDog
07-31-2008, 02:37 PM
Here is an excerpt from this website about traits of Organized Killers and Disorganized Killers
http://www.omicidiseriali.it/scene.htm

Crime Scene

The overall imprint of the disorganized crime scene is that the crime is committed suddenly and with no set plan of action for deterring detection. The crime scene shows great disarray. There is a spontaneous, symbolic, unplanned quality to the crime scene. The victim may be known to the offender, but age and sex of the victim do not necessarily matter.

If the offender is selecting a victim by randomly knocking on doors in a neighborhood, the first person to open a door becomes the victim. The offender kills instantly to have control; he cannot risk that the victim will get the upper hand.

The offender uses a blitz style of attack for confronting the victim, who is caught completely off guard. He either approaches the victim from behind, unexpectedly overpowering her, or he kills suddenly, as with a gun. The attack is a violent surprise, occurring spontaneously and in a location where the victim is going about his or her usual activities.

The offender depersonalizes the victim, targeting specific areas of the body for extreme brutality. Overkill or excessive assault to the face often is an attempt to dehumanize the victim. Such facial destruction may indicate knowledge of the victim or that the victim resembles or represents a person who has caused the offender psychological distress. The offender may wear a mask or gloves, use a blindfold on the victim, or cover the victim's face as he attacks. There is minimal verbal interaction except for orders and threats. Restraints are not necessary, as the victim is killed quickly.

Any sexually sadistic acts, often in the form of mutilation, are usually performed after death. Offenders have attempted a variety of sexual acts, including ejaculating into an open stab wound in the victim's abdomen. Evidence of urination, defecation, and masturbation has been found on the victim's clothing and in the home. Mutilation to the face, genitals, and breast, disembowelment, amputation, and vampirism may also be noted on the body.

Dr. Pennypacker
07-31-2008, 02:51 PM
I have some interesting infor from Weleetka locals. Now THIS is just hearsay at present - a "someone in LE is talking about new developments" type talk. BUT the latest word from someone who is actually a member of LE involved in the investigation says that there were body fluids (urine or semen?) present on/near/around the bodies - on the outside - as in the killer(s) stood over them and deposited fluids after they were dead. So they do have DNA and they will be able to prove that a suspect was at the scene at the time (or immediately after) the girls were killed.

My interest in this is that IF IT'S TRUE, what it SAYS about the killer or the motive or WHO this may have been directed toward. Is this a signature for gangs, bikers etc? Why would the killer do this? What was he trying to say with this gesture? Did he not understand that DNA CAN be recovered from this or did he think once it dried, since the scene was outside, LE would miss it? Or is he young/stupid or just doesn't care? Obviously his DNA was NOT on file already but at some point I think if this is true they WILL find out who did this - because someone who would do this to two kids is twisted enough to do other things that will get him nailed.

Things have been pretty quiet locally (according to my source there) but people are concerned and want this solved. Don't know about OSBI but local LE is working on it daily - it has not been forgotten and it is NOT "cold" at all as far as they are concerned. They continue to get leads and track old leads and talk to people every day in an effort to find the killer(s).

I am off to find out who (historically) might make a statement like this with bodies of victims to see if it "fits" anything we already know. Could just be BS, but I figure it's worth a bit of digging.

My Opinion

WOW would I like to see some movement in this case. Hope something pans out. Nice to hear that local LE is still interested in solving this case. OSBI seem like a bunch of buffoons.

Albert18
07-31-2008, 02:56 PM
If this info is true FlowerChild then I think the locals do need to be very concerned. This takes the crime up a notch and I didn't think it could get any worse.

ETA: What kind of hell did those poor girls run into that afternoon?

Busylady
07-31-2008, 03:19 PM
After reading and reading all about the case, basically this kid was there at the time the murder was committed therefore he is also charged with the felony murder. If you read his myspace etc he takes responsibility for it. The pictures the comments etc lead me to believe they are a nice family who care about their kids, he made a mistake and in Sept will go away for 20 years roughly. In my opinion, like I said I feel like it is a family doing the best they can do, doesnt mean you have to agree with me.


Now I am miising something.

This Angela Graham is the wife of Aaron Graham, the guy who plead guilty to first degree murder of Richardson?

So who are the nice family people?

FlowerChild
07-31-2008, 03:30 PM
I don't necessarily think the body fluids indicate a serial killer (no evidence of other matching cases) - just a disorganized killer - OR it could be as simple as a "message" to a specific recipient - a "signature" that the intended party would understand (even if we don't). I can see it being done as a blatant statement of disrespect and control to someone specific who would "know" exactly what it meant - maybe payback to a "snitch" or a warning to someone to remain silent. If this is indeed factual information I think we have to look at BOTH the disorganized random killing AND the targeted "message" killing in this case.

My Opinion

Busylady
07-31-2008, 03:37 PM
In my opinion Angela Graham is not involved in the murder of Taylor or Skyla.


Tell me about it. There are people on these boards who will never want to understand that family members are involved.

FlowerChild
07-31-2008, 04:03 PM
Both the "Wood" brothers are members of the "Hoovers". This gang is strong in Oklahoma, Tulsa has many. I could not locate the crime they commited but why Lanita received "Life" is beyond me. They had their shooter.
It was a stabbing, not a shooting.

Lanita got life because she came up with the idea to set up the victims and call in the gangbanger brothers to rob them. She planned the whole thing KNOWING that there was going to be a crime committed against the victims. She may not have thought that violence/murder would occur but she was a co-conspirator and did NOTHING to stop or prevent the crime, nor did she aid the victim. A murder occurred as a direct result of HER ACTIONS in targeting and luring the victims and giving the brothers their location. She made the phone call to her boyfriend and told them exactly where the victims were - and then left the room and waited while the murder and robbery took place. The other girl was smart enough to turn state's evidence and testify against the others - Lanita was obviously loyal to the gang and her "man" to the end. We also have no idea how she might have helped the murderer and his brother (her boyfriend) AFTER the crime. She may have played a part in a cover-up or disposing of evidence.

It's sad when young women get caught up in gangs and murder at 17 and 18 but she was an ADULT when this occurred and if the testimony is true - it was her idea to set up the men for the brothers to rob in their hotel room. She didn't stab the man, but it was HER ACTIONS that led to him being killed - without her actions, nobody would have died. And she didn't get LWOP, she got life - she may get out in 20 or 30 years depending on her behavior in prison. The two men who were active participants in the murder/robbery - well one is serving LWOP and the other is on death row.

"Baby cousin Nita" is a murderer just a sure as if she'd stabbed the victim herself - she set him up and because of HER he died in the 1st hours of a New Year for no other reason than he took up a pretty girl on an offer - an offer which had NO crime involved - the girls didn't tell the victims the "lie" that they were prostitutes until they were IN the men's hotel room. An idea (along with the fake robbery by "pimp") Nita came up with AFTER the victims had flashed a large amount of cash earlier in the evening.

The whole thing was Nita's IDEA, that's why she is in prison.

My Opinion

Claycat
07-31-2008, 04:12 PM
Yes, those boys were from Henryetta and we haven't seen hide or hair of them since...

You haven't seen them? How many of them were there?

GetSmart
07-31-2008, 05:09 PM
This is just tip of the iceberg I have uncovered today.

http://bangornews.com/news/t/news.aspx?articleid=167004&zoneid=500
"The people that we deal with do not place a value on human life," he said. "Look at the video games. We teach kids how to commit homicide. In the games, they get more points if they urinate on the victim. The greater the violence, the more points they are awarded. They just donít feel a connection with their victims."

http://kotaku.com/gaming/jack-thompson/thompsonsofts-bloody-im-ok-splatters-onto-web-152788.php (http://kotaku.com/gaming/jack-thompson/thompsonsofts-bloody-im-ok-splatters-onto-web-152788.php)
The Lawyer Who Will Not Be Named had an idea for a video game this past October, challenging a "video game company" to actually create his twisted concept. The "winner" gets to decide which charity will receive the $10,000 bounty. It involved a 14-year old boy armed with a baseball bat and various other weapons of minor destruction engaging in a sadistic rampage, killing, and urinating on his victims. The challenge has been met, and it's great!
Sadly, the game is free, offending one of the proposal's stated requirements. If you enjoy old-school action platformers, with copious amounts of flowing bitmapped urine, download this NOW.
I'm O.K.: The Video Game That Lets You Crush Dog Skulls, Shoot Children With Sniper Rifles, and So Much More (http://www.slutbear.com/thompsonsoft/download.html) [Thompsonsoft]


5 of the Most Violent Video Games

http://ezinearticles.com/?5-of-the-Most-Violent-Video-Games&id=889142 (http://ezinearticles.com/?5-of-the-Most-Violent-Video-Games&id=889142)
Postal 2 is also pretty disgusting. You have the ability to urinate on people


http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20635828-661,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20635828-661,00.html)
Members of the gang are then shown torching her hair, pouring a cup of urine on her, then urinating on her directly.


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/july-dec03/video_07-07.html (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/july-dec03/video_07-07.html)
MARY LOU DICKERSON: The player has a choice. Does he want to urinate on the victim or not? Does he want to shoot them or not? Does he want to take a shovel and decapitate them or not?


http://www.policeone.com/gangs/articles/137053-Chicago-gangs-migrate-to-burbs-branch-out-to-new-crimes/ (http://www.policeone.com/gangs/articles/137053-Chicago-gangs-migrate-to-burbs-branch-out-to-new-crimes/)
average leader of a Chicago street gang is 43, and more often than not he lives in the leafy suburbs of Cook County.He typically has been convicted of murder.
In some gangs, his underlings have tried to infiltrate the Cook County Clerk's office; the Cook County Sheriff's office; the Chicago Police Department, and even the College of DuPage's criminal justice classes.
:furious:

Claycat
07-31-2008, 06:45 PM
Oh, Gees, GetSmart! That makes me want to puke.

To me, this makes it more convincing that it is young punks, if indeed the girls were urinated on!

sheza
07-31-2008, 07:19 PM
I agree with what you are saying, but am a little confused on your distances. I have lived in Henryetta my entire life and have always considered that whole area down around where the Plackers live to be Bryant, not Bryant being 3 miles away from it. I guess Henryetta being 13 miles away is measured from center of town or something. I haven't checked, but I'm not sure that Henryetta is any farther from the scene than Weleetka is. Yes, those boys were from Henryetta and we haven't seen hide or hair of them since...

Hello Nieghbor
Henryetta exit-Weleetka exit- I-40 sign says 10 miles- Plakers would be
3 or 4 miles from I-40.
Bryant> use to have a grocery store-church-school, Plackers would be 4
miles from the town of Bryant, (there are 2-2 mile sections between them)
Weleetka would be 4 miles from the crime scene.
Plakers have a Weleetka rural rt1 address and a Weleetka phone.

Anyway we are all one big community.

ArizonaGiGi
07-31-2008, 07:50 PM
You haven't seen them? How many of them were there?


The boys shooting at the bridge have disappeared? Gone into hiding?
Anybody from the area know what's going on with them?

Just Nose'n around
07-31-2008, 08:04 PM
The boys shooting at the bridge have disappeared? Gone into hiding?
Anybody from the area know what's going on with them?

Sorry for the confusion. I need to learn to be clearer with my statements. When the crime occured, it was going around the next day that 3 teenagers had done it. Ended up that they had just been taken in for questioning. However, since that Monday, we have heard nothing about them. Not certain about all 3 of them, but one boy was from Henryetta.

Just Nose'n around
07-31-2008, 08:06 PM
Hello Nieghbor
Henryetta exit-Weleetka exit- I-40 sign says 10 miles- Plakers would be
3 or 4 miles from I-40.
Bryant> use to have a grocery store-church-school, Plackers would be 4
miles from the town of Bryant, (there are 2-2 mile sections between them)
Weleetka would be 4 miles from the crime scene.
Plakers have a Weleetka rural rt1 address and a Weleetka phone.

Anyway we are all one big community.

Yes, you are correct, it's one big community. Like I had stated, I haven't actually checked on exact mileage distance. Just know it doens't feel like it that far from town. So you are in Weleetka?

Just Nose'n around
07-31-2008, 08:08 PM
FC...is it possible that the bodily fluid could be because the POI was stopped on the country road to relieve himself? Not realizing what he had pulled up on until the witnesses passed by?

I agree though, this just makes the situation that much more disturbing if it was actually on the girls.

FlowerChild
07-31-2008, 08:23 PM
I have been checking some info with my Weleetka source and it seems Uncle Joe Mosher just keeps coming up, like a bad penny.

Uncle Joe was AT the Placker home Sunday. It appears he was either there when the girls were shot or showed up shortly before they were shot. Dear Uncle Joe MAY BE the person who drove by and SAW THE GIRLS walking toward the house shortly before they were killed! He may be the witness LE talked about who "did not come forward" but had a "good reason" for not coming forward at the time??? He may be that "other witness" who saw the POI near the girls???

Uncle Joe was at the crime scene when Rose Whitaker arrived. He stayed at the crime scene until 3AM, at which time her went to an all-night restaurant in Henryetta where he talked about the crime and what he knew.

Uncle Joe has sort of made himself a family spokesperson in all of this and continues to comment about the case to the media when asked to. Uncle Joe has a rather colorful criminal history including guns and meth (including manufacturing meth). We are still not sure HOW Joe Mosher fits into the family - he says he is Vicky's brother, but if so, Ruby Paschal must have been married to (or had a child with ) a Mosher before she married Carl Paschal. Joe Mosher is several years older than his purported siblings Vicky and Tony Paschal.

Could Uncle Joe be the REAL target of the killer(s)?? All I can say at this point is IF THIS IS TRUE "I have questions"

My Opinion

christine2448
07-31-2008, 08:26 PM
Very interesting FC...thanks for everything.

Just Nose'n around
07-31-2008, 08:26 PM
Does makes sense FC about him possibly being the witness with the good reason for not coming forward until days later. Think though that LE would have talked to him throughout the course of the night/early morning if Uncle Joe was at the scene until 3. He would have told them then, surely. But maybe not.

Just Nose'n around
07-31-2008, 08:39 PM
Oh goodness, so Uncle Joe went to good ol' Pig Out to share with others his family's recent tragedy. What a horrible choice of places in which to do that, IMO

Shutterfly
07-31-2008, 09:27 PM
I have been checking some info with my Weleetka source and it seems Uncle Joe Mosher just keeps coming up, like a bad penny.

Uncle Joe was AT the Placker home Sunday. It appears he was either there when the girls were shot or showed up shortly before they were shot. Dear Uncle Joe MAY BE the person who drove by and SAW THE GIRLS walking toward the house shortly before they were killed! He may be the witness LE talked about who "did not come forward" but had a "good reason" for not coming forward at the time??? He may be that "other witness" who saw the POI near the girls???

Uncle Joe was at the crime scene when Rose Whitaker arrived. He stayed at the crime scene until 3AM, at which time her went to an all-night restaurant in Henryetta where he talked about the crime and what he knew.

Uncle Joe has sort of made himself a family spokesperson in all of this and continues to comment about the case to the media when asked to. Uncle Joe has a rather colorful criminal history including guns and meth (including manufacturing meth). We are still not sure HOW Joe Mosher fits into the family - he says he is Vicky's brother, but if so, Ruby Paschal must have been married to (or had a child with ) a Mosher before she married Carl Paschal. Joe Mosher is several years older than his purported siblings Vicky and Tony Paschal.

Could Uncle Joe be the REAL target of the killer(s)?? All I can say at this point is IF THIS IS TRUE "I have questions"

My Opinion


The more I read the more confused I get........
From Nancy Grace
GRACE: "When did you learn of this -- this murder?"

FARROW: "Well, Sunday afternoon. My daughter was the second person to arrive on the scene. And the daddy of Taylor wouldn`t let her near Skyla. And she called us at our home, and we flew over there to see about her because we knew something was drastically wrong. So it was Sunday afternoon, probably 5:20."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0806/11/ng.01.html

frogjustfrog
07-31-2008, 11:09 PM
I dont even know what to say. I think I have been signed on, but I have not even caught up until now. Read the latest and I am in shock! I decided, after much avoidance of topix, to read a little there to see if they were on to this. Have decided for certain not to return there!
I'm just really having a hard time trying to deal with all of this! I'm sorry! But I grew up there! I don't like the ugliness I am seeing in the world. Ready to go into a cacoon with just me, myself, I and my FATHER.
I am not used to such viciousness! I wish they would solve this! I am back to worrying about my children there, again!

FlowerChild
07-31-2008, 11:18 PM
The more I read the more confused I get........
From Nancy Grace
GRACE: "When did you learn of this -- this murder?"

FARROW: "Well, Sunday afternoon. My daughter was the second person to arrive on the scene. And the daddy of Taylor wouldn`t let her near Skyla. And she called us at our home, and we flew over there to see about her because we knew something was drastically wrong. So it was Sunday afternoon, probably 5:20."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0806/11/ng.01.html
Well Mrs Farrow also failed to mention VICKY being there and we know she was from the 911 tape. There was also an un-named child heard on the 911 tape and Claudia failed to include THAT person in her statement. Maybe Claudia just failed to clarify that Rose was the 1st person there OTHER THAN TAYLOR'S FAMILY MEMBERS.

I just cannot help but feel this is all going to come together with the Paschals, Plackers and Uncle Joe Mosher in the center. I think the killers were there because of the family - not sure WHICH was the target but I think one of them was.

My Opinion

frogjustfrog
08-01-2008, 12:13 AM
How soon was the interview after the girls were shot? Isn't it possible Mrs Farrow was in shock? She kinda acted like she was.

GetSmart
08-01-2008, 12:18 AM
I'll have to go back & look up history but remember one of the clan got picked up @ that time & we were wondering about the same thing ( witness) then.

frogjustfrog
08-01-2008, 12:27 AM
I'll have to go back & look up history but remember one of the clan got picked up @ that time & we were wondering about the same thing ( witness) then.
I'm thinking it was him, but it could have been Peter's brother,

frogjustfrog
08-01-2008, 12:27 AM
I'm thinking it was him, but it could have been PEter's brother, Joe.

GetSmart
08-01-2008, 01:37 AM
This is not a random act & with tidbits coming out like they are, it is shaping up more & more to be related to the Placker Clan.
. JMO

Claycat
08-01-2008, 01:55 AM
Sigh! :cry:

sheza
08-01-2008, 02:24 AM
I have some interesting infor from Weleetka locals. Now THIS is just hearsay at present - a "someone in LE is talking about new developments" type talk. BUT the latest word from someone who is actually a member of LE involved in the investigation says that there were body fluids (urine or semen?) present on/near/around the bodies - on the outside - as in the killer(s) stood over them and deposited fluids after they were dead. So they do have DNA and they will be able to prove that a suspect was at the scene at the time (or immediately after) the girls were killed.

My interest in this is that IF IT'S TRUE, what it SAYS about the killer or the motive or WHO this may have been directed toward. Is this a signature for gangs, bikers etc? Why would the killer do this? What was he trying to say with this gesture? Did he not understand that DNA CAN be recovered from this or did he think once it dried, since the scene was outside, LE would miss it? Or is he young/stupid or just doesn't care? Obviously his DNA was NOT on file already but at some point I think if this is true they WILL find out who did this - because someone who would do this to two kids is twisted enough to do other things that will get him nailed.

Things have been pretty quiet locally (according to my source there) but people are concerned and want this solved. Don't know about OSBI but local LE is working on it daily - it has not been forgotten and it is NOT "cold" at all as far as they are concerned. They continue to get leads and track old leads and talk to people every day in an effort to find the killer(s).

I am off to find out who (historically) might make a statement like this with bodies of victims to see if it "fits" anything we already know. Could just be BS, but I figure it's worth a bit of digging.

My Opinion

FlowerChild I heard this rumor also, I heard it to be semen.

sheza
08-01-2008, 02:43 AM
Yes, you are correct, it's one big community. Like I had stated, I haven't actually checked on exact mileage distance. Just know it doens't feel like it that far from town. So you are in Weleetka?

Yes I have lived here all my life-and my parents-GG-GGG.
I live 2 miles from the crime scene.
Your thoughts on this tragedy?

GetSmart
08-01-2008, 03:22 AM
"as in the killer(s) stood over them and deposited fluids after they were dead.Why would the killer do this? What was he trying to say with this gesture?"

FlowerChild I think that would be a sign of disrespect or degrading or as in or Whizz off.

little726
08-01-2008, 07:41 AM
If the killers turn out to be teens,won't they be charged as juvenile's? Thus, getting out of detention when they turn 21?

Dr. Pennypacker
08-01-2008, 08:03 AM
If the killers turn out to be teens,won't they be charged as juvenile's? Thus, getting out of detention when they turn 21?

Sometimes individuals are charged as adults when the severity of the crime is great enough.

lilacwine
08-01-2008, 09:06 AM
In my opinion....

that was either done to conceal the true intent of the crime (if speculation that's it revenge against the family.... why would you conceal it???)

or (I saw a special on something like this a long time ago) it's completely random... and not unlike serial killings... I'm sure there are studies on this.. but I'm off to work.

Mysterylover
08-01-2008, 11:08 AM
"as in the killer(s) stood over them and deposited fluids after they were dead.
Why would the killer do this? What was he trying to say with this gesture?"

FlowerChild I think that would be a sign of disrespect or degrading or as in or Whizz off......


IF the body fluid was urine I suspect LE would look for a different type of killer, than IF it was semen..

The EVIL, HATE and coldness inside this killer is unimaginable...what has caused sooooo much hate?....imo....

SailorMoon
08-01-2008, 11:09 AM
Could the girls have stumbled upon someone pleasuring himself, or saw it?? Doesn't make sense though...why he'd gave 2 guns or another person. Maybe the gay thing?? None of it makes sense. Just none of it. What a senseless crime.


FlowerChild I heard this rumor also, I heard it to be semen.

Pandabear
08-01-2008, 11:35 AM
Uncle Joe's rap sheet. He just gives me the creeps.

http://www.criminalsearches.com/details.aspx?id=51081319

Link doesn't go directly to his page but you can type in William or Joe Mosher at the top and get the info.

Tom'sGirl
08-01-2008, 12:01 PM
Uncle Joe's rap sheet. He just gives me the creeps.

http://www.criminalsearches.com/details.aspx?id=51081319

Link doesn't go directly to his page but you can type in William or Joe Mosher at the top and get the info.
This info. has been posted here..........http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2420675&postcount=1

lilacwine
08-01-2008, 01:32 PM
It's a little bit of a weird place to be pleasuring oneself. Even if it was a clandestine meeting... I suspect it wouldn't be at the roadside. Also, this would be hard to "disguise" as a revenge killing unless the murderer had a vial of semen and then it wouldn't be "released" in the same way it would be biologically.

That was really hard to word without being entirely inappropriate... I hope I did okay.

Tom'sGirl
08-01-2008, 01:40 PM
It's a little bit of a weird place to be pleasuring oneself. Even if it was a clandestine meeting... I suspect it wouldn't be at the roadside. Also, this would be hard to "disguise" as a revenge killing unless the murderer had a vial of semen and then it wouldn't be "released" in the same way it would be biologically.



That was really hard to word without being entirely inappropriate... I hope I did okay.

You worded that very well :)

GetSmart
08-01-2008, 01:51 PM
lilacwine As I was reading your post I was thinking wow that was worded great, I think I would have had a problem giving the correct description. :clap:

lilacwine
08-01-2008, 01:54 PM
Thanks I teach High School... I have to reword some "hallway conversations" on discipline slips!

Annie
08-01-2008, 01:55 PM
I may be wrong but I think there is a possibility the girls were in the vehicle for a while. They could have been shot first at another place and then dumped there and more shots fired to make sure. The bullet casings could have been placed there. I think some casings may be missing because they had the dogs searching for additional evidence. This would also account for the odd angle of the truck. The killer might even be one of the witnesses or someone connected to them. I don't think we can take everything at face value.

FlowerChild
08-01-2008, 03:18 PM
I may be wrong but I think there is a possibility the girls were in the vehicle for a while. They could have been shot first at another place and then dumped there and more shots fired to make sure. The bullet casings could have been placed there. I think some casings may be missing because they had the dogs searching for additional evidence. This would also account for the odd angle of the truck. The killer might even be one of the witnesses or someone connected to them. I don't think we can take everything at face value.
OSBI said the girls were killed where they were found. And there wasn't enough time for them to be shot and then moved - probably 15 minutes at most. The bodies fell where they were shot - one near the road and one further back and to the side - the evidence bears this out and LE/OSBI has NEVER suggested the crime scene wasn't the murder scene - there was NO SEARCH for a primary scene.

While they MIGHT have been in a vehicle with the killer(s), if that's the case, they were shot where he/they let them out near Taylor's home, not elsewhere.

My Opinion

LifeSaver
08-01-2008, 04:46 PM
Something I think some people are forgetting is that it's not just Weleetka that is grieving, searching for answers, scared, etc. These girls were just as close to Henryetta as they were Weleetka. Their school was just a few miles from Henryetta. Their parents work in Henryetta. Weleetka may be in the same county as that side of the road, but Henryetta was hit just as hard.

I didn't understand that comment at all. Weleetka...and Henryetta are two seperate towns. Henryetta is close, but thats about all they have in common. I certainly don't grieve for Henryetta over the death of these girls, Henryetta is irrevelent. Its the mothers, and fathers...friends, and small town of Weleekta that has knocked to their knees.

Just Nose'n around
08-01-2008, 05:57 PM
I didn't understand that comment at all. Weleetka...and Henryetta are two seperate towns. Henryetta is close, but thats about all they have in common. I certainly don't grieve for Henryetta over the death of these girls, Henryetta is irrevelent. Its the mothers, and fathers...friends, and small town of Weleekta that has knocked to their knees.

The towns of Henryetta and Weleetka are seperate, but the murder of these two girls took place at an area known as Bryant, which is located between Henryetta and Weleetka. These girls went to school in Graham, which is closer to Henryetta and Dustin than Weleetka. I believe alot of emphasis has been placed on 'the Weleetka community' because the girls were on the Okfuskee side of the road. The other side of the road is in Okmulgee County. The killer/s, if they are local, could be anywhere from Henryetta to Weleetka and all places in between. I was not saying what I did to get others to grieve for Henryetta, that's not it at all. I just don't think some realize how close this crime is to both Weleetka and Henryetta.

ArizonaGiGi
08-01-2008, 06:24 PM
So Uncle Joe may have been at the house when it happened. Others may have been there too.
I'm gonna say it again, someone should have heard the gun shots. I don't care if the a/c was on , the t.v. was on and the wind blew the wrong way. That close to the house and that kind of gunshots should have been heard at the Placker house (and I think they were)
if someone was home.
Just my opinion but it's pretty strong about this.
And Uncle Joe is the key. IMO again. You know how when you see someone speaking out for the family in a murder case, you get a funny feeling. Their body language just doesn't jive, their emotions or something just isn't sitting well. That's how I feel about Uncle Joe. Something just isn't jiving with him.
And about the fluids, I hope this is just a rumor and not truth. sigh.
It's just too much to comprehend that someone would do THAT to these little girls.

Trino
08-01-2008, 10:31 PM
Haven't posted in a while, but I agree with two points: the family should have heard the gun shots, and Uncle Joe as a family spokesperson is a strange choice.

YellowDog
08-01-2008, 10:41 PM
Yes, Uncle Joe has put himself at the forefront since the beginning of this horror tale.
I thought that was strange from the beginning.

GetSmart
08-02-2008, 12:08 AM
I decided to start over & re-read from early on..
Nothing has really changed for example :

06-09-2008, 11:17 AM SeriouslySearching (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=13831)
I don't understand why the news is so slow in coming out about this. If it happened yesterday, they should be all over this by now. Most of the news reports are on air, but not online. I have so many questions already.

Originally Posted by philamena http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2285965#post2285965)
SuziQ,
I think I need new glasses. lol :p
I cannot find anything in the above article that mentions 3 suspects. Can you help me?


SuziQ 6-10-08
It sure doesn't! What I copy and pasted was the title of the article at that time. Evidently Channel9 news made a change in a big way after the presser. Which is curious, IIRC, the article made it sound like they were almost ready to make an arrest. So how do you go from THREE suspects to NONE?

IMO, LE thought wrongly that they had the right people and now are back to square one.

frogjustfrog
08-02-2008, 12:45 AM
Hi 99. Love your new avitar! I think I need to get caught up. Cant hardly believe what I'm reading!

frogjustfrog
08-02-2008, 12:49 AM
Looks like I need to start re-reading too. Of course, I didnt join you all until later in the posting, so I havent read from the beginning, but thought I was caught up. Maybe it's old age, but where did the 3 suspects and this come from? I guess I really do need to go back! I never knew they were about to arrest anyone!

originally posted by SuziQ 6-10-08
It sure doesn't! What I copy and pasted was the title of the article at that time. Evidently Channel9 news made a change in a big way after the presser. Which is curious, IIRC, the article made it sound like they were almost ready to make an arrest. So how do you go from THREE suspects to NONE?

GetSmart
08-02-2008, 09:39 AM
I did'nt remember that either & they did update the page & changed it.

Thanks Frog ..you gave me the idea :)

annie mae
08-02-2008, 11:55 AM
It was a stabbing, not a shooting.

Lanita got life because she came up with the idea to set up the victims and call in the gangbanger brothers to rob them. She planned the whole thing KNOWING that there was going to be a crime committed against the victims. She may not have thought that violence/murder would occur but she was a co-conspirator and did NOTHING to stop or prevent the crime, nor did she aid the victim. A murder occurred as a direct result of HER ACTIONS in targeting and luring the victims and giving the brothers their location. She made the phone call to her boyfriend and told them exactly where the victims were - and then left the room and waited while the murder and robbery took place. The other girl was smart enough to turn state's evidence and testify against the others - Lanita was obviously loyal to the gang and her "man" to the end. We also have no idea how she might have helped the murderer and his brother (her boyfriend) AFTER the crime. She may have played a part in a cover-up or disposing of evidence.

It's sad when young women get caught up in gangs and murder at 17 and 18 but she was an ADULT when this occurred and if the testimony is true - it was her idea to set up the men for the brothers to rob in their hotel room. She didn't stab the man, but it was HER ACTIONS that led to him being killed - without her actions, nobody would have died. And she didn't get LWOP, she got life - she may get out in 20 or 30 years depending on her behavior in prison. The two men who were active participants in the murder/robbery - well one is serving LWOP and the other is on death row.

"Baby cousin Nita" is a murderer just a sure as if she'd stabbed the victim herself - she set him up and because of HER he died in the 1st hours of a New Year for no other reason than he took up a pretty girl on an offer - an offer which had NO crime involved - the girls didn't tell the victims the "lie" that they were prostitutes until they were IN the men's hotel room. An idea (along with the fake robbery by "pimp") Nita came up with AFTER the victims had flashed a large amount of cash earlier in the evening.

The whole thing was Nita's IDEA, that's why she is in prison.

My Opinion Sorry. I stand corrected.

LifeSaver
08-02-2008, 01:49 PM
While I'm not in Weleetka, somehow I have the feeling that the outrage is not present like it should be. Could this be because many in Weleetka are economically disadvantaged and don't have enough influence to pressure OSBI? However, even nationally this story doesn't seem to have the front page presence equal to that of the Elizabeth Smart or Jessica Lundsford cases.

Maybe the outrage should be that people aren't outraged.

The embarressment is the reward, merely 30,000, while in Florida 250.000 reward for any information in locating Caycee? Weleetkans are outraged, and helping in everyway they can, the POI..doesn't look familar to locals, he isn't standing on the corner having a soda (unfortanately) 500 leads, that means everyother household in Weleetka have called in information. I don't agree this is a local, and I beleive this is a "cold case".

Tom'sGirl
08-02-2008, 02:13 PM
The embarressment is the reward, merely 30,000, while in Florida 250.000 reward for any information in locating Caycee? Weleetkans are outraged, and helping in everyway they can, the POI..doesn't look familar to locals, he isn't standing on the corner having a soda (unfortanately) 500 leads, that means everyother household in Weleetka have called in information. I don't agree this is a local, and I beleive this is a "cold case".

I've read some reports, mainly posts saying how much money has been received from generous donations to the families.

Does anyone know the accurate amount of money that has been donated to the burial fund for the victims' families?

In articles it said to send donations to the Bank of Commerce in Weleetka. Couldn't this expense have been offered for free?

Why don't the families use that money to add to the Reward?

FlowerChild
08-02-2008, 02:25 PM
The embarressment is the reward, merely 30,000, while in Florida 250.000 reward for any information in locating Caycee? Weleetkans are outraged, and helping in everyway they can, the POI..doesn't look familar to locals, he isn't standing on the corner having a soda (unfortanately) 500 leads, that means everyother household in Weleetka have called in information. I don't agree this is a local, and I beleive this is a "cold case".

The Caylee case is drawing so much $$$ because there is a hope the child is still alive - and because the family (her Mother and Grandmother) are perfect Tabloid fodder - LE is releasing everything Casey (the Mom) says in jail, including visits and phone calls and the family (and their associates) are talking to People, to other tabloids, to the media non-stop. It takes SOMEBODY, LE, the family, a reporter or writer - to keep the public interest burning and since in this case OSBI has held every single piece of hard evidence like it was going to get away if they let it out in public and no-one from the families (except "Uncle Joe") has spoken in weeks and so far no-one in the media is championing the case the Weleetka case grows dim in the Public's memory compared to dead wives and missing 2 year-olds whose families and friends (and detectives) are talking things up daily.

The Whitakers and Plackers are not interested in the media angle and obviously neither family feels comfortable beating the media drum for attention and air time. If LE won't do it, it then is up to the family (or a writer or reporter) to keep pressure on LE - and right now NO-ONE is stepping up to keep this case fresh. In every case where resolution has occured after the case had long being unsolved it was a family member who kept the case (and the victims) in the media. It's hard, you basically have to give up your child to the public - everything about him or her that you held precious is no longer a private treasure - but another hook to make that child live in the eyes of the fickle public. And you give up your privacy to some extent and you open your family (All of it) to public inspection, scrutiny and judgement. Obviously the Plackers and the Whitakers prefer things this way - keeping their privacy even if it may mean the killer(s) escape justice for now. The Plackers are moving and I would think the Whitakers may not be far behind them - it's obviously too painful and too difficult for either family to step forward right now- if ever. And it appears that the OSBI does not (for whatever reason) want to keep this case "out there" right now. I hope they have a good reason.

I do NOT belive the case is "cold" - it has been only 2 months and there is evidence that has NOT been processed totally yet and leads that have not been tracked to their end. It is often MONTHS on cases like this (where a suspect is not obvious) before a single break occurs. This isn't CSI and things don't get wrapped up with a nice resolution in an hour. In real life, and real crimes (mysterious ones especially) resolution comes slowly - often after months of tedious investigation and chasing dead-end after dead-end. LE NEVER forgets children - the Girl Sout Murders are not forgotten after 30 YEARS and those victims still mean something to LE - as will Taylor and Skyla. The search for their killer(s) will NEVER end.

My Opinion

LifeSaver
08-02-2008, 04:37 PM
I've heard over 100.000 was taken in by donations for each family. Rose, bought her a new SUV...and Whitakers have been seen at the local casinos. I don't have the amount written, its all rumor. I don't have any answers to your question about why the families didn't add a portion of the funds, to the reward. Sorry.

Tom'sGirl
08-02-2008, 04:55 PM
I've heard over 100.000 was taken in by donations for each family. Rose, bought her a new SUV...and Whitakers have been seen at the local casinos. I don't have the amount written, its all rumor. I don't have any answers to your question about why the families didn't add a portion of the funds, to the reward. Sorry.
I had asked you here
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2410652&postcount=379 to clarify what amount you are saying, but you never responded.

I'm again in the dark as to the amount the posted above :confused:

LifeSaver
08-02-2008, 06:15 PM
I had asked you here
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2410652&postcount=379 to clarify what amount you are saying, but you never responded.

I'm again in the dark as to the amount the posted above :confused:

I've not certain of the amount, I hear its over 100.000 for each family. Rose, bought a new SUV...and I hear they are gambling a lot. I'm not sure exactly why that money was given to the families, and not added with the award.

LifeSaver
08-02-2008, 06:16 PM
reward, Sorry...I wasn't here when you left the link

Tom'sGirl
08-02-2008, 06:18 PM
I've not certain of the amount, I hear its over 100.000 for each family. Rose, bought a new SUV...and I hear they are gambling a lot. I'm not sure exactly why that money was given to the families, and not added with the award.
Third time asking here, what is 100.000 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif

Are you saying one thousand, one-hundred thousand, what :confused:

MeoW333
08-02-2008, 06:19 PM
I would like to add that Insane Clown Possee isn't a GANG. It's a musical group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insane_Clown_Posse

Police in certain areas are classifying followers of Insane Clown Posse, called "Juggalos" as a gang due to their criminal behavior. Read the articles about the boy who got stabbed with a battle ax in crimes in the news. The 2 that did it were juggalos. This is not to say that all juggalos act like that; yet the police are classifying them as gangs in areas.

PGW
08-02-2008, 06:24 PM
Going back to the boys with the guns in the area. What if one of them or two of them accidentally, or even intentionally in a fit of rage, shot the girls, then realized after the fact the consequences? What if they fled the scene because they were afraid of the gunshots being heard? What if they realized they couldn't go back and hide the bodies because they would be spotted and were familiar enough to the people in the area that they would be recognized if they tried? What if some of the boys in the group did not know what happened, because one or two of them had walked through the woods away from their group briefly and they did the crime and therefore could not tell the rest of the group? What if the one who did the killing in that group, contacted someone they knew who would not be recognized in the area, to go gather up the shell casings, and remove the girls from the scene? What if the killer was nearby directing the guy in the truck where to find the girls? What if in the middle of gathering up shell casings and preparing to move the bodies, the guy in the truck realizes he's been spotted and he has to leave. He didn't do the killing but he was the clean-up. That could explain the odd things such as gathering up the shell casings into a pile but leaving them behind.
That could explain the truck at a funny angle. That could explain the crouched position of the guy with the truck when spotted. He was there for a bad reason but he wasn't the killer. His job was to cover up the crime scene. That could also explain why it sometimes appears this was an intentional killing but too many loose ends to be professional hit. Just thinking aloud here. Might not have any merit to it.

MeoW333
08-02-2008, 06:24 PM
5 shots to the body, 1 to the head
I just finished watching a 1993 movie titled The Young Americans. It takes place in London, where an American drug lord recruits young innocent people without any arrest records, to do his dirty work. If he thinks they might talk to the cops he has them killed, each one has 5 shots to the body, 1 to the head . That's his signature. :eek:
__________________

I posted this on the previous thread, but bumping it over here with corrections and clarification. I have never heard of this "5 to the body, 1 to the head" until Weleetka. Wondering if that is some type of signature or meaning in the drug world?


It could be possible the killer/s is a fan of the movie, and copied the idea from there. I would think he would have to be a good shot to get it all right. Do we know if the bullet wounds (6 on each girl) lined up to form points of a star?

MeoW333
08-02-2008, 06:27 PM
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700247105,00.html

"Juggalos are fans of the rap group Insane Clown Posse, known for their violent lyrics. During a recent Utah Gang Conference, however, law enforcers said they now classified Juggalos as a gang because of a continued pattern of criminal activity. Gang detectives estimated there are 3,000 to 4,000 Juggalos in Utah, with about 70 percent of them being people who just like the music. But the other percentage of self-proclaimed Juggalos overshadow the law-abiding fans with their consistent criminal behavior, according to police."



Here i made it easier with a link

Tom'sGirl
08-02-2008, 06:40 PM
It could be possible the killer/s is a fan of the movie, and copied the idea from there. I would think he would have to be a good shot to get it all right.
Do we know if the bullet wounds (6 on each girl) lined up to form points of a star?
To my knowledge, nothing has been officially released as to how many, or at what points on the girl's bodies has been released.

Anyone have a link to otherwise?

frogjustfrog
08-02-2008, 06:41 PM
It could be possible the killer/s is a fan of the movie, and copied the idea from there. I would think he would have to be a good shot to get it all right. Do we know if the bullet wounds (6 on each girl) lined up to form points of a star?

I do not believe the information has been revealed or let out yet, as to where and/or how many times each girl was shot. ANd I believe that any information we may have could be due to the comments of a family member stating what she saw. I try to believe that she was probably in shock.
Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Lauren - CA
08-02-2008, 06:54 PM
I've not certain of the amount, I hear its over 100.000 for each family. Rose, bought a new SUV...and I hear they are gambling a lot. I'm not sure exactly why that money was given to the families, and not added with the award.

Reading this just sickened me.

Tom'sGirl
08-02-2008, 07:02 PM
Reading this just sickened me.
We don't know this for fact!

BTW, welcome, from Canada huh?

frogjustfrog
08-02-2008, 07:09 PM
Reading this just sickened me.
:Welcome-12-june:
So nice to see you here! Was wondering when you would just "have enough" at that one forum.
I am sure you will enjoy it here much better!

Lauren - CA
08-02-2008, 07:13 PM
Thanks. I've been reading all your posts since Day 1 and finally was able to join the other day. I have to learn how to add all those cute things to my name!

I certainly hope that it is not true that they are gambling with the money or already purchasing expensive vehicles. That would be a shame. I would have hoped that they were given enough to pay for the funerals and what not, but personally I think the balance of the money should go to starting an education fund in their name or towards finding the killer.

Lauren - CA
08-02-2008, 07:16 PM
:Welcome-12-june:
So nice to see you here! Was wondering when you would just "have enough" at that one forum.
I am sure you will enjoy it here much better!

Thanks so much. Yes, it was getting bad. I've been wanting to join for awhile as I have been reading all the posts since Day 1. I was hoping that this would all be over. Will there ever be justice for these girls?

frogjustfrog
08-02-2008, 07:26 PM
Thanks so much. Yes, it was getting bad. I've been wanting to join for awhile as I have been reading all the posts since Day 1. I was hoping that this would all be over. Will there ever be justice for these girls?
Oh, there will be justice. I just hope the only justice isnt just the one that will come, Judgment Day! Either way, justice will be served.
Laren, this posting forum is much different in the way that alot of the time there are not that many people at one time posting, therefore, it could be even a day or more until you get a response to a posting if it is directed at a person in particular.
Topix is more like a chat room, but vulgar. Well, I'm not well acquainted with chatrooms so I cant even say that for sure, but most the postings here are direct to the case, and there is no tolarance for the behavior that goes on other places. So, I do believe you will find it much more informative and to the point. We have posters here who are really good sleuthers and the information they pull up is very interesting. It would be a good idea to go to the different threads and read any links that may be there that you have not seen yet, as I gained much more useful information here than anywhere else.
:)

GetSmart
08-02-2008, 07:51 PM
Hi Frog.. It sure gets sad everyday checking & nothing doen't it

Claycat
08-02-2008, 07:58 PM
It is very sad! :(

Annie
08-02-2008, 07:59 PM
This article tells about the outpouring from people who were touched by this case. An article that follows it shows that the families are also eligible for up to $20,000 from a Victim Fund. I hope the families are using this money wisely. There are so many good people who want to help, but don't want to see the money squandered.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080613_12_A1_hHorri744509

GetSmart
08-02-2008, 08:16 PM
It is like I said before I would use some of that $$ for a private eye..

GetSmart
08-02-2008, 08:31 PM
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,,660207399,00%2ben-USS_01DBC.html
Gang expert blames violence on mass media

The Virginia resident gives talks to juveniles and parents around the nation on youth culture, media influence, teen violence and drugs.

In addition to the music, the average juvenile receives more than 1,600 images each day, he said.
Many of those images are pornographic, while a lot of the music glamorizes sex, drug use and violence.
"
It's not just the music they're listening to, it's part of a creed. They're saying this is what I believe in life," he said.
The mass media, whether it be music, television, movies or video games, desensitizes juveniles, Holland said. He specifically singled out a group known as Juggalos, or fans of the rap group Insane Clown Posse, or ICP. He called Juggalos extremely violent and aggressive. ICP and their Juggalo followers have been around since the early to mid-90s But it's only been during the past few years they've become a noticeable problem in Utah
"We've been following this group since 2004," said West Valley police detective John LeFavor.

LeFavor talked about the Juggalo problem before a packed room Thursday during one of the conference's two hour workshops.
Just like straight edgers, groups who belong to a Juggalo gang started off simply as fans of the music. Police struggled with whether this group should be classified as gang members or simply music fans similar to Deadheads. But because some members engaged in a pattern of criminal activity and intimidated their communities, they were classified as a gang, LeFavor said.
Today, there are an estimated 3,000 to 4,000 Juggalos in Utah. About 70 percent of them are simply fans of the music who live the lifestyle preached in the music, which includes drinking, pot smoking and sex, he said.
"I don't believe the majority of them are gang members. They're right on the edge," LeFavor said.
But about 15 percent are involved in criminal gang activity and overshadowing the rest of the Juggalos who may be peaceful, LeFavor said.
Gang cops call Juggalos a fast-growing problem in Utah.
In one case, a Juggalo group from Jefferson Junior High School was busted for committing burglaries within the school, he said. Between 50 and 90 percent of Juggalos carry weapons, LeFavor said. In 2005, a Granger High School student who threatened to take guns to school and harm teachers and students was arrested. Weapons and a lot of Juggalo paraphernalia were found at his house, LeFavor said.

Okie ties
08-02-2008, 08:52 PM
I've been off for a few days and like most of you, am saddened to log on and find no real updates. As I've read through the log, I kept asking myself, what can I do to help further this case? Part of me wants to drive back to Oklahoma, where I just came from, with a video camera and try to find ways to increase the media awareness. Another part of me wants to find a way to draw attention to the reward and help it increase exponentially assuming at some price some one will talk. I will willing to donate money directly to the reward fund. Anyone have any ideas about how to publicize this and try to draw other donations quickly?

GetSmart
08-02-2008, 09:01 PM
I am being a smart here.. but see if The families are willing to use some of the victim fund $$ to hire a PR person.. But no kidding that is what is needed in order to draw attention since no one in these families except for Uncle Joe are media hounds

Tom'sGirl
08-02-2008, 09:18 PM
I am being a smart here.. but see if The families are willing to use some of the victim fund $$ to hire a PR person.. But no kidding that is what is needed in order to draw attention since no one in these families except for Uncle Joe are media hounds
Some of the money? they should be offering it all IMO.

They should be planting themselves in front of LE facilities & City Hall with signs to get some Media attention.

Okie ties
08-02-2008, 09:57 PM
Some of the money? they should be offering it all IMO.

They should be planting themselves in front of LE facilities & City Hall with signs to get some Media attention.


Yes... that's the part I don't get. How can I/we be more emotionally involved and outraged than this family? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, irregardless of income level and means. If Linda Kaye Placker has the aptitude and adeptness to publish poems and pictures to a website, she clearly could gain media attention through that same vehicle or many different ones... how about youtube? Haven't we all thought of the video we'd post if we were in that same situation, crying out for media help and begging for LE information? Or could it be that the LE has provided the family some information reassuring them they are close to arresting the suspect(s) and advising them that by going public they could potentially risk this investigation? We want the truth! Would an editorial letter stating our confusion and concern to all the Gaylord publications get any attention?

- Signed, FEELING FRUSTRATED that parents/grandparents are willing to move but not willing to scream at the top of the lungs to catch a killer :confused: :furious: :yuck:

GetSmart
08-02-2008, 10:33 PM
[Okie ties;Yes... that's the part I don't get. How can I/we be more emotionally involved and outraged than this family? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, irregardless of income level and means. If Linda Kaye Placker has the aptitude and adeptness to publish poems and pictures to a website, she clearly could gain media attention through that same vehicle or many different ones...
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Okie OH YES ....I have thought the same thing... no she wants post Mug Shots & recall "all the good times" with the folks in the mugs shots .

This whole thing is stinking to high heaven. I am very uncomfortable with this entire situation.

I am a little late but welcome to WS :woohoo:

Okie ties
08-02-2008, 10:45 PM
Thank you Get Smart. I value your comments and opinions.

LifeSaver
08-02-2008, 10:46 PM
I am clueless to why, I guess they needed a new SUV...a sporty one.

LifeSaver
08-02-2008, 10:48 PM
IMO, I believe it's because the killers are among their young people. Lions will protect their cubs.

I like your littlt turtle...its so cute. Where did you get it

Lauren - CA
08-02-2008, 11:30 PM
It is very sad! :(

By the way Claycat, I absolutely love your butterfly/turtle pic. What a wonderful tribute to two beautiful little girls. May they never be forgotten.

frogjustfrog
08-02-2008, 11:44 PM
Did we ever find out for sure that there was any kind of body fluid on or near the girls?
The thought sickens me. Maybe it was vomit when GP came up on them. I could understand that.

Lauren - CA
08-02-2008, 11:53 PM
I am clueless to why, I guess they needed a new SUV...a sporty one.

Like that will bring Skyla back.......

According to the article posted earlier, both families were given the money from the Oklahoma Crime Victim's Compensation Board to pay for funeral services. I don't know about there in OK, but here $6000 would not pay for a funeral. But $100,000 is way more than they need. Did they know they would have any financial assistance? I noticed a huge difference in the girls funerals. Taylor's casket and flowers were more elaborate than Skyla's. Did anyone else notice that? Also, Skyla's video tribute expired. Could they not afford to keep it up for awhile longer? It was such a beautiful tribute. Taylor's tribute, which only contains school photos, is still up and running.

The article also stated they were given $3000 towards counselling. I certainly hope they are taking advantage of that service.

Lauren - CA
08-03-2008, 12:00 AM
Did we ever find out for sure that there was any kind of body fluid on or near the girls?
The thought sickens me. Maybe it was vomit when GP came up on them. I could understand that.

I had mentioned vomit at the other forum......and got laughed at, lol. But I had thought that maybe the POI drove up on the scene, seeing two girls lying there, got out of his truck to see what was going on, seeing the horrific crime scene he possibly threw up. Other cars passed by and he didn't want them to see the scene, maybe he has a criminal record and doesn't want the murders pinned on him? And then high tailed it out of there when the coast was clear? I know, most likely that was not the case. But people have done stranger things.

ArizonaGiGi
08-03-2008, 12:06 AM
I am clueless to why, I guess they needed a new SUV...a sporty one.

Hi LS, If I remember correctly you are local? Is it a fact that Rose got a new SUV, you have seen it? I'm not trying to put you on the spot, I just want to know if it's true fact, not rumors, that they are buying vehicles and gambling the money.
Hoping it's only a rumor :rolleyes:

GetSmart
08-03-2008, 12:12 AM
Hi there Lauren..Nice to see you here. I have read your post at topix & That is something that could have happened.

Welcome to WS

Lauren - CA
08-03-2008, 12:18 AM
Hi there Lauren..Nice to see you here. I have read your post at topix & That is something that could have happened.

Welcome to WS

Thank you. I feel very welcomed here so far. I enjoy reading your posts by the way.

At this point, no one knows what happened that Sunday afternoon. It is pure speculation on our part. I just pray that these families will get the answers that they deserve. I think the "not knowing" part must be tearing them up and also the "why?" Why would anyone want to hurt two little girls on a Sunday afternoon walk?? It just doesn't make sense.

LifeSaver
08-03-2008, 12:21 AM
Hi LS, If I remember correctly you are local? Is it a fact that Rose got a new SUV, you have seen it? I'm not trying to put you on the spot, I just want to know if it's true fact, not rumors, that they are buying vehicles and gambling the money.
Hoping it's only a rumor :rolleyes:

Its a fact..

frogjustfrog
08-03-2008, 12:24 AM
I had mentioned vomit at the other forum......and got laughed at, lol. But I had thought that maybe the POI drove up on the scene, seeing two girls lying there, got out of his truck to see what was going on, seeing the horrific crime scene he possibly threw up. Other cars passed by and he didn't want them to see the scene, maybe he has a criminal record and doesn't want the murders pinned on him? And then high tailed it out of there when the coast was clear? I know, most likely that was not the case. But people have done stranger things.

I could see this as a possibility, but it was reported by the person who called in seeing the POI parked almost blocking the road, that he saw the girls walking too. I took it that the only thing that looked suspicious to him was the poi. So if the girls were alive when the poi was parked that way, he could not have just drove up on it. Of course, with so many things coming out, and OSBI reporting things differently at the last presser, I have no idea what to believe any more.
sad sad sad! I am way 2 emotionally involved!

LifeSaver
08-03-2008, 12:24 AM
Rose, quit her job at McDonalds, and she is now employed at the school Skyla attended..

Lauren - CA
08-03-2008, 12:24 AM
Its a fact..

That's very disappointing to hear. Not a good way to honor your daughter's memory. I'm sure the good people that donated will think twice before digging in their pockets to help strangers out the next time.

LifeSaver
08-03-2008, 12:25 AM
Well, in Oklahoma...if you are a murdered the state has a fund for burial.

GetSmart
08-03-2008, 12:27 AM
Wow LS.. Thanks for the update.

This might sound stupid but in away I was hoping that LE was tuning to the boards & reading what all we as laymen have discovered on our own. If not maybe they should be enlightened. Then they can come back with an explanation but not one that would let the cat out of the bag but just to address our fears.

LifeSaver
08-03-2008, 12:27 AM
OSBI are still knocking on doors...and taking swaps...So, we can't give up...if its a local they will find him eventually

LifeSaver
08-03-2008, 12:30 AM
I totally agree. I'm just really confused about the POI...that town is so small..if he was within 30 miles. I think we would have a name

Claycat
08-03-2008, 12:34 AM
I like your littlt turtle...its so cute. Where did you get it


By the way Claycat, I absolutely love your butterfly/turtle pic. What a wonderful tribute to two beautiful little girls. May they never be forgotten.

Thanks! I googled for butterfly/turtle photos. I wish I had taken the photo, but we are drying up in central Texas. I haven't seen a butterfly or a turtle in a couple of months.

Lauren - CA
08-03-2008, 12:35 AM
Rose, quit her job at McDonalds, and she is now employed at the school Skyla attended..

Do you know what she would be doing there?

frogjustfrog
08-03-2008, 12:39 AM
Well, in Oklahoma...if you are a murdered the state has a fund for burial.
But should state money be used if there was a fund for burial? OR if they were given money by people because people hoped they could give them a decent burial?

GetSmart
08-03-2008, 12:49 AM
I am not sure how many of you read other threads on our board but in case any one missed it check this out.

Dear Websleuths members,
Marc Klaas, Polly Klass's dad, has agreed to come on Websleuths next week for an hour long chat.

During the hour we will take questions from Weblseuths members only but the chat will be open to the public for reading.

The exact date of the chat has not been confirmed but will be soon.

Marc has appeared many times on Nancy Grace and other major network programs discussing Caylee's case and other true crime cases in the news.

Marc Klaas is a dear friend of Websleuths and we look forward to his chat.

Please check back in for more details. We are working out the technical aspects of the chat and will explain how it will work by Monday if not sooner.

Tricia
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68223

So maybe we could compile a question about the girls

Lauren - CA
08-03-2008, 12:51 AM
Do you know if the chat will be about the girls specifically or all topics in this forum?

GetSmart
08-03-2008, 12:53 AM
Rose, quit her job at McDonalds, and she is now employed at the school Skyla attended..

So I would that to mean they are not going to move like the Plackers.
Playing devil advocate here but if she got a new job maybe she got a raise in wages & can afford a new car now JMO

Claycat
08-03-2008, 01:01 AM
I got the impression that the Klass chat was going to be about Caylee Anthony.

GetSmart
08-03-2008, 01:22 AM
Do you know if the chat will be about the girls specifically or all topics in this forum?
Go to the link..
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68223&page=2

Quote:
Originally Posted by olive http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2436918#post2436918)
Thanks Tricia! Can we only discuss questions related to the Caylee case, or can we ask respectful questions about his experience as well?

Any question you want my dear. This is not limited to Caylee. I will be putting up notices in other forum

ArizonaGiGi
08-03-2008, 03:05 AM
Its a fact..

LS thanks for confirming the information. Seems like the more I know about this case, the less I wish I knew. :rolleyes:

Mysterylover
08-03-2008, 08:50 AM
Rose, quit her job at McDonalds, and she is now employed at the school Skyla attended.....

IMO...IF I was in Rose's shoes, that is exactly what I would do.

With the sole reason to keep my eyes and ears open to any 'little thing' I

might pick-up about WHO murdered my precious daughter...kids talk...smart move Rose!...jmo

Claycat
08-03-2008, 10:13 AM
IMO...IF I was in Rose's shoes, that is exactly what I would do.

With the sole reason to keep my eyes and ears open to any 'little thing' I

might pick-up about WHO murdered my precious daughter...kids talk...smart move Rose!...jmo

I had not even thought of that, Letsthink! Good point!

Lauren - CA
08-03-2008, 10:27 AM
IMO...IF I was in Rose's shoes, that is exactly what I would do.

With the sole reason to keep my eyes and ears open to any 'little thing' I

might pick-up about WHO murdered my precious daughter...kids talk...smart move Rose!...jmo


I agree with your statement. As well, I'm pretty sure she is fearful of something happening to Jayme. She pretty much has lost two children so far. One has been killed, the other will be in jail for the next 10 years. What better way to feel more secure than to be around your youngest baby 24/7.

Claycat
08-03-2008, 10:58 AM
I agree with your statement. As well, I'm pretty sure she is fearful of something happening to Jayme. She pretty much has lost two children so far. One has been killed, the other will be in jail for the next 10 years. What better way to feel more secure than to be around your youngest baby 24/7.

That is also a very good point, Lauren! I would certainly be guarding the baby!

Y'all are so smart!

PGW
08-03-2008, 11:52 AM
It's quite possible it is too painful for the family to see the tribute running. People handle grief differently. Perhaps they decided it's time to put the grief on the back burner and find the killers. One thing at a time. Some people can carry around photos of loved ones who have passed, and other people cannot bear to look at a photo for a long time. Also, perhaps in some way, they feel they are protecting Skyla, in some way, from the killer's eyes, by not having her tribute up anymore. Could be a lot of reasons! If they needed a better car in order to continue in their search for justice or in order to feel more protected from whatever is out there, then so be it. Anybody who has dealt with the frustration of not having a good car that runs, can certainly sympathesize. Maybe, too, a car dealership decided to help.


Like that will bring Skyla back.......

According to the article posted earlier, both families were given the money from the Oklahoma Crime Victim's Compensation Board to pay for funeral services. I don't know about there in OK, but here $6000 would not pay for a funeral. But $100,000 is way more than they need. Did they know they would have any financial assistance? I noticed a huge difference in the girls funerals. Taylor's casket and flowers were more elaborate than Skyla's. Did anyone else notice that? Also, Skyla's video tribute expired. Could they not afford to keep it up for awhile longer? It was such a beautiful tribute. Taylor's tribute, which only contains school photos, is still up and running.

The article also stated they were given $3000 towards counselling. I certainly hope they are taking advantage of that service.

PGW
08-03-2008, 11:55 AM
The fluids could be from one of the shooters urinating in his pants out of fear, perhaps when the second shooter did the overkill?

PGW
08-03-2008, 12:01 PM
OR going back to the young men shooting in the area, maybe two of them were present in the area where the girls were but only one did the shooting. Then he took the other guy's friends and did the overkill, and so there was only one shooter, but two who were there, each with a gun. Then the one gun is dumped, and the other gun is sitting in a family cabinet locked away with an alibai. So it would be one shooter, with one witness, and the gun of the witness and the gun of the shooter were both involved. The witness could have either thrown up, or urinated out of fear. He can't say anything because his gun was involved. Out of fear he could have urinated during the overkill that he witnessed, or as pointed out in the thread, could have thrown up.

PGW
08-03-2008, 12:12 PM
Why couldn't you join until the other day?


Thanks. I've been reading all your posts since Day 1 and finally was able to join the other day. I have to learn how to add all those cute things to my name!

I certainly hope that it is not true that they are gambling with the money or already purchasing expensive vehicles. That would be a shame. I would have hoped that they were given enough to pay for the funerals and what not, but personally I think the balance of the money should go to starting an education fund in their name or towards finding the killer.

GetSmart
08-03-2008, 12:44 PM
Also a little note to someone who has decided to play a little game with me on here. I'm reporting you, and it's not to any administrator. I won't be back in here. But just wanted to let you know that your games are over and I hope you get the counseling you need for continuing this. Just because you work in the computer field, it does not give you the upper-hand.


Please don't let some DA run you off. Everyone has something to contribute & I enjoy your post.

Tom'sGirl
08-03-2008, 12:48 PM
Also a little note to someone who has decided to play a little game with me on here. I'm reporting you, and it's not to any administrator. I won't be back in here. But just wanted to let you know that your games are over and I hope you get the counseling you need for continuing this. Just because you work in the computer field, it does not give you the upper-hand.
:confused::confused::confused:

little726
08-03-2008, 12:52 PM
Please don't let some DA run you off. Everyone has something to contribute & I enjoy your post.

I agree 100%, GS!!! PGW has brought loads of ideas to this forum.

Please don't go, PGW!!!

Trino
08-03-2008, 02:09 PM
Be Aware! Several WS posters mentioned Websleuths over at Topix Weleetka - big mistake. There are a few Topix posters who are very rough around the edges, and abusive language flows from their tongues like there's no tomorrow. I'm guessing that they will be here shortly if not already here.

There are, however, Topix posters who are - like WS - seriously trying to solve this crime. But, like anything else, there are always a few who can't follow society's standards.

Tom'sGirl
08-03-2008, 02:12 PM
Be Aware! Several WS posters mentioned Websleuths over at Topix Weleetka - big mistake. There are a few Topix posters who are very rough around the edges, and abusive language flows from their tongues like there's no tomorrow. I'm guessing that they will be here shortly if not already here.

There are, however, Topix posters who are - like WS - seriously trying to solve this crime. But, like anything else, there are always a few who can't follow society's standards.
They've been mentioning Websleuths openly for a long time, constantly saying "I PM'd you at WS".

GetSmart
08-03-2008, 02:32 PM
Oh dear not a good thing. But unlike topix we have rules !!

Websleuths (WS) Etiquette & Information
It is VERY important that all WS members read and understand the concepts listed below. Everyone will be expected to follow them while at WS.

Freedom of Speech:

While we believe very much in the freedom of speech & expression, you DO NOT have an absolute right to say whatever you want in this community. WS is based in the United States, but is not an agency of the Federal or any State government - so the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution and similar State amendments regarding your right to free speech DO NOT APPLY HERE. Anything that goes against our core beliefs and the purpose for which this community was designed may not be allowed. Posts and comments that are meant to incite conflicts between members or outside parties are strictly prohibited. WS Administration has the absolute right to edit, modify, close or delete any content found in this community. While this rarely, if ever happens, we will not tolerate individuals or groups creating problems with the overall membership.

Now back to regular programing...
Are we still waiting on final DNA reports, it seems like I recall it could take up to 8 weeks?

Tom'sGirl
08-03-2008, 02:38 PM
It is VERY important that all WS members read and understand the concepts listed below. Everyone will be expected to follow them while at WS [/B]

Freedom of Speech:

While we believe very much in the freedom of speech & expression, you DO NOT have an absolute right to say whatever you want in this community. WS is based in the United States, but is not an agency of the Federal or any State government - so the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution and similar State amendments regarding your right to free speech DO NOT APPLY HERE. Anything that goes against our core beliefs and the purpose for which this community was designed may not be allowed. Posts and comments that are meant to incite conflicts between members or outside parties are strictly prohibited. WS Administration has the absolute right to edit, modify, close or delete any content found in this community. While this rarely, if ever happens, we will not tolerate individuals or groups creating problems with the overall membership.
Link to the above http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65798&highlight=Etiquette+Information

GetSmart
08-03-2008, 02:48 PM
Thanks TG Good catch oops

YellowDog
08-03-2008, 02:59 PM
Third time asking here, what is 100.000 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif

Are you saying one thousand, one-hundred thousand, what :confused:

I believe she's saying $100,000 and simply put a period where she meant to put a comma...........a typo.

Albert18
08-03-2008, 03:01 PM
Be Aware! Several WS posters mentioned Websleuths over at Topix Weleetka - big mistake. There are a few Topix posters who are very rough around the edges, and abusive language flows from their tongues like there's no tomorrow. I'm guessing that they will be here shortly if not already here.


After reading some of that stuff at Topix I have decided we should bring back insane asylums.

They should be brick and very big.

YellowDog
08-03-2008, 03:04 PM
When a person dies, they expell urine involuntarily. Could this be the fluid found at the crime scene?

YellowDog
08-03-2008, 03:22 PM
I was just reading Taylor's obituary and it states that she was born to Vicky and Peter Placker. How has it been determined that other people are her birth parents? It seems like they would have stated Taylor was born on such and such a date and her parents are so and so instead of saying "she was born to" Vicky and Peter Placker.

Tom'sGirl
08-03-2008, 03:42 PM
I believe she's saying $100,000 and simply put a period where she meant to put a comma...........a typo.
Just trying to clarify, as it's been posted twice differently, the first time it was 100,00.00 and I asked what amount was meant.............

PGW
08-03-2008, 05:05 PM
Okay, you're the one who mentioned the vomit. I was trying to remember who did. Quite possible. It could fit in the scenerio that there were two people on the scene during the shooting and one threw up who was not doing the shooting. Or was so frightened he wet himself.

QUOTE=Lauren - CA;2447424]I had mentioned vomit at the other forum......and got laughed at, lol. But I had thought that maybe the POI drove up on the scene, seeing two girls lying there, got out of his truck to see what was going on, seeing the horrific crime scene he possibly threw up. Other cars passed by and he didn't want them to see the scene, maybe he has a criminal record and doesn't want the murders pinned on him? And then high tailed it out of there when the coast was clear? I know, most likely that was not the case. But people have done stranger things.[/QUOTE]

PGW
08-03-2008, 05:23 PM
Back to this posting I did, Little 726 had a good question about the time element involved in this -- the way this would be possible in that short time frame is that the other person who was called to come clean-up the scene would be someone who lives in the immediate area as in family/friend of the shooters, OR was a person who had just met with the shooters moments prior for another type of illicit activity.



OR going back to the young men shooting in the area, maybe two of them were present in the area where the girls were but only one did the shooting. Then he took the other guy's friends and did the overkill, and so there was only one shooter, but two who were there, each with a gun. Then the one gun is dumped, and the other gun is sitting in a family cabinet locked away with an alibai. So it would be one shooter, with one witness, and the gun of the witness and the gun of the shooter were both involved. The witness could have either thrown up, or urinated out of fear. He can't say anything because his gun was involved. Out of fear he could have urinated during the overkill that he witnessed, or as pointed out in the thread, could have thrown up.

YellowDog
08-03-2008, 06:18 PM
Where was Joe Mosher when these killings occurred? There's been mention that he was at the house. Has this ever been confirmed?

GetSmart
08-03-2008, 07:01 PM
YD at this stage in the game nothing seems to be confirmed. I mean for weeks we are believing media & LE that Peter found Taylors cell phone & called 911. I am disgusted.

little726
08-03-2008, 07:23 PM
Has anyone come across Claudia Farrows maiden name?

Lauren - CA
08-03-2008, 08:17 PM
Be Aware! Several WS posters mentioned Websleuths over at Topix Weleetka - big mistake. There are a few Topix posters who are very rough around the edges, and abusive language flows from their tongues like there's no tomorrow. I'm guessing that they will be here shortly if not already here.

There are, however, Topix posters who are - like WS - seriously trying to solve this crime. But, like anything else, there are always a few who can't follow society's standards.

Yes, I agree and I was one of the serious ones. There are others too who are serious about discussing this crime for different reasons. I have bounced from both forums since Day 1 (reading) and finally contributing. Because the other forum is more of a chat room, it is easier for some to get into it with others because they disagree with their views. Not everyone can handle someone disagreeing with their opinion......we need to remember that it is only one person's opinion and not fact until we know what happened on that dirt road 8 weeks ago. Until then, I am open to listening to anyone's ideas, no matter how strange or far fetched they sound. In this day and age there are many crazy people out there..........take the Greyhound Bus incident in Manitoba this past week. We need to realize that we are never really safe.

Lauren - CA
08-03-2008, 08:23 PM
YD at this stage in the game nothing seems to be confirmed. I mean for weeks we are believing media & LE that Peter found Taylors cell phone & called 911. I am disgusted.

I totally agree with you there. I just about had a fit when I heard th 911 call. Never once we were led to believe that Vicky made that call. How much more is being kept from the public. But why? Same with the DNA evidence. Was there DNA present and if so, why keep it a secret? Weren't we also under the impression that the Plackers were home? Either this case has been completely mishandled from the get go or OSBI has a pretty good clue on who has committed this crime and thinks they can flush the person(s) out by keeping secrets.