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christine2448
07-30-2008, 04:14 PM
Please continue GENERAL discussions here. Look around Nancy has her own forum (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=165), there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.


Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.


Newbies.....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/WELCOMETOWSBLUE.gif

I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

I advise everyone to read the RULES of WS, Long (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66869)and Short Version (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66872).

d99gr81
07-30-2008, 04:24 PM
To reply to the person who said they had the machines on auto back up. Maybe for a small company yes... Cisco has way to many employees and way to much information. They do not back up everyones hard drive. They use roaming profiles. So anything saved on his desktop (for those who don't understand thats a file saved in the area of your icons on the screen... where you see your wall paper picture) would be back up on his roaming profile that is it.


Going home good night!

RaleighNC
07-30-2008, 04:27 PM
To reply to the person who said they had the machines on auto back up. Maybe for a small company yes... Cisco has way to many employees and way to much information. They do not back up everyones hard drive. They use roaming profiles. So anything saved on his desktop (for those who don't understand thats a file saved in the area of your icons on the screen... where you see your wall paper picture) would be back up on his roaming profile that is it.


Going home good night!

I do not believe that this is correct. Cisco employee's laptops run automated backup programs every day - and I believe it's WAYYY more than just the desktop files. it's many megabytes of data being backed up.

Data storage is cheap these days - and not backing up an employee's PC leaves the potential for hundreds of hours of work being lost.

Blondieskatz
07-30-2008, 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddress58 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2433630#post2433630)
Thank you too, d. I'm getting a good lesson here.

No Cisco is not an internet company, but they would have a server and more than likely an IT Dept.

The IT Dept, where I work can pull up and look at anything you are doing on your pc at anytime. If you use email or pull up web sites you are using internet and it goes into the server drive for the company. They can also go back and get deleted items from anyones pc. It all depends on how long they keep the info served on there servers. It's kept for a week where I work. None the less, you can never totally delete you hard drive.
__________________

Blondieskatz
07-30-2008, 04:32 PM
I do not believe that this is correct. Cisco employee's laptops run automated backup programs every day - and I believe it's WAYYY more than just the desktop files. it's many megabytes of data being backed up.

Data storage is cheap these days - and not backing up an employee's PC leaves the potential for hundreds of hours of work being lost.

That's correct. The company I work for is not a small company and the data on the internet connection is stored. Most emails are stored differently so that would not even be included in server data storage.

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 04:35 PM
Carrie Clarke could have easily admitted or denied what BC stated about Friday mornings cancellation. Did they not want to show BC did state some truth in his statement if he is telling the truth? She jogged with NC and had to know some things about BC. I can't imagine she had many different things to say about BC or did she? :confused:

Diana Duncan's husband???? Did he not do one because he had some positive things to say?

I am just saying it is strange to see who was picked and chosen...Many spouses, but the ones directly across the street only the wife did one? JA jogs with NC, but so does Carrie.

Theresa went to the cameras immediately talking about her friend NC, started organize the search, where is she?

This was for the custody case not criminal...why would they not do a statement? This is why I find it strange not everyone involved with NC did one.

runnermomof5
07-30-2008, 04:35 PM
whew! go away for a while and you have to play catch up on the reading! LOL

Okay, thanks to Jilly and Fran for the kind words in regards to surviving a bad marriage. :)

Now, about the car being in NC name even though she did not work outside of the home, drawing a paycheck, per say.
Recently my husband attended a seminar on retirement offered thru his employer. The speaker talked about wills. He said that EVERYTHING should be in both the husbands and wife's name if the wife did not work outside of the home. House, cars, etc.
Otherwise, if the husband dies before the wife, the wife goes thru a lot of legal mess trying to get those things put in her name. Titles, mortgages, etc .
Maybe that is why the car was in NC name.
Or maybe not.
Anyway, so what if she was not bringing any money into the household? She could not work , remember?? Canadian citizen in the U.S. under her husbands visa.

reddress58
07-30-2008, 04:36 PM
I do not believe that this is correct. Cisco employee's laptops run automated backup programs every day - and I believe it's WAYYY more than just the desktop files. it's many megabytes of data being backed up.

Data storage is cheap these days - and not backing up an employee's PC leaves the potential for hundreds of hours of work being lost.
If he did murder NC and it was premeditated, I'm sure BC had the knowledge to think all this through beforehand; and nothing will be on his computer to incriminate him. If it wasn't pre-meditated; that's a different story. I'm sure if he's innocent, he won't mind them looking at anything! I'd WANT them to.

reddress58
07-30-2008, 04:38 PM
That's correct. The company I work for is not a small company and the data on the internet connection is stored. Most emails are stored differently so that would not even be included in server data storage.
How about Google searches? Is that stored?

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 04:45 PM
No vehicle registered in Nancy's name from what I see. Where was it said it was in her name? I know she wanted it paid off and in her name in her settlement, but I don't think it currently is.

Roy23
07-30-2008, 04:46 PM
LE is certainly going after Brad now. They sure handle investigations in a very quiet manner. I would have thought that they would have some serious physical evidence by now. At what point is LE required to name a person of interest or a suspect? Does anyone know? I would have thought that LE would have to have some probable cause to get the new search warrant. But no person of interest. It seems a little unfair.

Blondieskatz
07-30-2008, 04:54 PM
How about Google searches? Is that stored?


Anything that goes through the internet, so searches would be cached. The best way to understand this is if you open a document that is saved on your pc such as you pictures folder that is not stored. If you open an internet window such as WS it's stored, if you do a search on Google and click on that link it's stored

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 04:55 PM
No vehicle registered in Nancy's name from what I see. Where was it said it was in her name? I know she wanted it paid off and in her name in her settlement, but I don't think it currently is.

I believe that was one of those assumptions that seem to pop up - kinda like the $1200 purse.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 04:59 PM
LE is certainly going after Brad now. They sure handle investigations in a very quiet manner. I would have thought that they would have some serious physical evidence by now. At what point is LE required to name a person of interest or a suspect? Does anyone know? I would have thought that LE would have to have some probable cause to get the new search warrant. But no person of interest. It seems a little unfair.

LE doesn't have to name a suspect or person of interest at all. When they believe they have enough evidence they will go to the DA and present it. either the DA will take it to a Grand Jury or send LE back with a request for further evidence. There is no time limit - when the DA is comfortable they will make a move to obtain an arrest warrant. LE can arrest and sometimes does when they feel there is a danger to the public for example.

LE had to have probable cause to get both of the two new warrants we have heard of.

Onescout
07-30-2008, 05:15 PM
LE doesn't have to name a suspect or person of interest at all. When they believe they have enough evidence they will go to the DA and present it. either the DA will take it to a Grand Jury or send LE back with a request for further evidence. There is no time limit - when the DA is comfortable they will make a move to obtain an arrest warrant. LE can arrest and sometimes does when they feel there is a danger to the public for example.

LE had to have probable cause to get both of the two new warrants we have heard of.

true that RC, and LE doesn't seem to think that there is a danger to the public, the only danger was to Nancy Cooper.

cassadinechik
07-30-2008, 05:17 PM
Anything that goes through the internet, so searches would be cached. The best way to understand this is if you open a document that is saved on your pc such as you pictures folder that is not stored. If you open an internet window such as WS it's stored, if you do a search on Google and click on that link it's stored

That depends on the company. It all depends on the company. They can save as little or as much as they want to. Cisco employees have a lot of um, internet freedom you might say? So storing everyone's data might get to be horrendous. I don't know what they store or don't store. It is all company specific to what they want to keep. If they do a forced backup from the network, they could indeed store your picture file located on your desktop. Or they could save and store nothing. And lots of work for Cisco is done via VPN where your PC is coming through your high speed data line, but only your networked stuff into Cisco is available to Cisco.

But bottom line is if you are at work, always assume they can see everything you are doing :)

Tink56
07-30-2008, 05:28 PM
Hi! I think if you look at the tentative divorce papers, there is a section about changing the titles giving each party clear title to one of the vehicles.

Look in the legal documents thread for the Separation Agreement and Property Settlement (Post #3). The information is on pages 9 and 10 of the document.


No vehicle registered in Nancy's name from what I see. Where was it said it was in her name? I know she wanted it paid off and in her name in her settlement, but I don't think it currently is.

reddress58
07-30-2008, 05:37 PM
That depends on the company. It all depends on the company. They can save as little or as much as they want to. Cisco employees have a lot of um, internet freedom you might say? So storing everyone's data might get to be horrendous. I don't know what they store or don't store. It is all company specific to what they want to keep. If they do a forced backup from the network, they could indeed store your picture file located on your desktop. Or they could save and store nothing. And lots of work for Cisco is done via VPN where your PC is coming through your high speed data line, but only your networked stuff into Cisco is available to Cisco.

But bottom line is if you are at work, always assume they can see everything you are doing :)
Thanks Cass & Blondie. So, if he worked from home using a Cisco appointed laptop could this same information still be stored? I really am clueless. I suppose he'd still be connected to the same server.

Deduction
07-30-2008, 05:45 PM
Actually I think there is a misunderstanding about this NEW SW it really isn't new it was dated June21st and was actually served yesterday on his office, or at least that is what I have seen reported. If this is true then apparently LE wasn't in such a big hurry to search his office. I am beginning to not believe but only about 25% of even what is in the media.

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 05:46 PM
I can NOT imagine sitting within 4 walls, losing my spouse forever and my children being taken from me, no job to go to right away, and anywhere I go in public people will spot me. It has got to be a horrible feeling.

If he did it I know it will get worse before it gets better, especially waiting for the knock on the door and the silence he is experiencing.

If he didn't do it, what a horrible punishment he's received for being innocent.

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 05:48 PM
Actually I think there is a misunderstanding about this NEW SW it really isn't new it was dated June21st and was actually served yesterday on his office, or at least that is what I have seen reported. If this is true then apparently LE wasn't in such a big hurry to search his office. I am beginning to not believe but only about 25% of even what is in the media.

I wonder if this was held back in case the LE didn't find enough evidence at the residence and vehicles???
This could be a sign that nothing is concrete so far. JMO

reddress58
07-30-2008, 05:49 PM
Carrie Clarke could have easily admitted or denied what BC stated about Friday mornings cancellation. Did they not want to show BC did state some truth in his statement if he is telling the truth? She jogged with NC and had to know some things about BC. I can't imagine she had many different things to say about BC or did she? :confused:

Diana Duncan's husband???? Did he not do one because he had some positive things to say?

I am just saying it is strange to see who was picked and chosen...Many spouses, but the ones directly across the street only the wife did one? JA jogs with NC, but so does Carrie.

Theresa went to the cameras immediately talking about her friend NC, started organize the search, where is she?

This was for the custody case not criminal...why would they not do a statement? This is why I find it strange not everyone involved with NC did one.
Carrie would not have confirmed or denied Brad's statement, because the affidavit from Nancy's friends was dated the 22nd and his the 23rd. He then followed with a rebuttal. I doubt he would have stated the Friday cancellation if it weren't true. Too easy to confirm. And somewhere in all of this, I think Clea's interview on Fox, it was mentioned that Carrie did say there were no plans to run SAT. morning...when Brad said Nancy was running with Carrie.

Deduction
07-30-2008, 05:50 PM
I can NOT imagine sitting within 4 walls, losing my spouse forever and my children being taken from me, no job to go to right away, and anywhere I go in public people will spot me. It has got to be a horrible feeling.

If he did it I know it will get worse before it gets better, especially waiting for the knock on the door and the silence he is experiencing.

If he didn't do it, what a horrible punishment he's received for being innocent.

I agree mom to 3kids---I am thinking along those same lines, just can't imagine.

reddress58
07-30-2008, 05:53 PM
Actually I think there is a misunderstanding about this NEW SW it really isn't new it was dated June21st and was actually served yesterday on his office, or at least that is what I have seen reported. If this is true then apparently LE wasn't in such a big hurry to search his office. I am beginning to not believe but only about 25% of even what is in the media.
Good deduction, Deduction! ABC reported this I think yesterday (or the day before) and WRAL waited until today. Sounds like an "after the fact" and "let's wait to broadcast this when we've run out of new details".

jumpstreet
07-30-2008, 05:58 PM
Good deduction, Deduction! ABC reported this I think yesterday (or the day before) and WRAL waited until today. Sounds like an "after the fact" and "let's wait to broadcast this when we've run out of new details".

I don't know if I've seen any original copies of the warrants posted anywhere, so it's unclear when they were granted/served.

However, while watching the WTVD video clip (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6294423), I believe they show scans of at least one of the new ones (around 2:10 mark), and it appears dated July 25th (last Friday). I also think I read somewhere the statement that the office search was conducted during "off hours".

I therefore wouldn't be surprised if the office warrant was obtained Friday, and the search performed late Friday night, or at some point over this past weekend (possibly in the middle of the night over the weekend) - to avoid disruption with other employees, etc.

Deduction
07-30-2008, 06:02 PM
Good deduction, Deduction! ABC reported this I think yesterday (or the day before) and WRAL waited until today. Sounds like an "after the fact" and "let's wait to broadcast this when we've run out of new details".

Yeah, their headline was misleading when it said New but in the body of the message it said "A warrant issued on July 21 allowed police access to an office on the Research Triangle Park campus of Cisco Systems Inc.,"

So have to wonder why they waited 8 days to search.

KTaylorsc
07-30-2008, 06:04 PM
I was thinking on the way home mostly because I'm obsessed.

What if BC's lawyer told him to take NC off the credit cards, take her name off the checking account and give her an allowance and that's why he did it. I mean how many times have we heard of people getting seperated/divorced and one takes all the money out of the account or maxes out the credit cards.

just a thought

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:04 PM
Actually I think there is a misunderstanding about this NEW SW it really isn't new it was dated June21st and was actually served yesterday on his office, or at least that is what I have seen reported. If this is true then apparently LE wasn't in such a big hurry to search his office. I am beginning to not believe but only about 25% of even what is in the media.

Did you mean July 21st ? The media report - I don't recall it saying what day(s) the search was conducted at Cisco, only that it was done. Same with the other warrant. The media routinely checks the clerks office for returned warrants - if the warrant was issued the 21st it is about right that a return including a notice to seal would be filed about 5 to 7 days later. I'll watch the report again but i don't believe Ed Crump reported what day the search was actually done.

jumpstreet
07-30-2008, 06:08 PM
Did you mean July 21st ? The media report - I don't recall it saying what day(s) the search was conducted at Cisco, only that it was done. Same with the other warrant. The media routinely checks the clerks office for returned warrants - if the warrant was issued the 21st it is about right that a return including a notice to seal would be filed about 5 to 7 days later. I'll watch the report again but i don't believe Ed Crump reported what day the search was actually done.

Check the video here - http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6294423 at around the 2:10 mark... seems like July 25th?

Raebie
07-30-2008, 06:09 PM
Maybe LE is trying to clear him with the Cisco warrants. To eliminate all lines of evidence. Just a thought.

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 06:10 PM
Carrie would not have confirmed or denied Brad's statement, because the affidavit from Nancy's friends was dated the 22nd and his the 23rd. He then followed with a rebuttal. I doubt he would have stated the Friday cancellation if it weren't true. Too easy to confirm. And somewhere in all of this, I think Clea's interview on Fox, it was mentioned that Carrie did say there were no plans to run SAT. morning...when Brad said Nancy was running with Carrie.

Some of the statements for NC were done ont he 23rd. Obviously Carrie and NC had some things in common. She wouldn't have to confirm or deny BC's statement but do what NC other friends did and state times and days and ackknowledge the relationship. Maybe why she cancelled? Did she plan to do it on Saturday? Her friends might say no, but let Carrie tell it.

The issue I am having is NO word from her or Diana Duncan's husband either.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:15 PM
Check the video here - http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6294423 at around the 2:10 mark... seems like July 25th?


Yep - the undisclosed location was issued the 25th which tends to make me think the 21st warrant revealed something and LE got the second warrant to follow up.

LE does not return a warrant the same day it is issued, nor do they return it once the search is done - instead they return it when the inventory taken is returned to LE and all items are logged and placed in evidence. Takes a few days.

I'm thinking the 21st warrant was searched shortly after - something cuaght LE's eye and they obtained the 25th warrant to check.

KTaylorsc
07-30-2008, 06:17 PM
Maybe LE is trying to clear him with the Cisco warrants. To eliminate all lines of evidence. Just a thought.

exactly! maybe they didn't find anything at the house so they searched his computer at work to make absolute certain he was cleared. Maybe they are looking in to those e-mails BC talked about between him, NC and Mr. Rentz.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:18 PM
Maybe LE is trying to clear him with the Cisco warrants. To eliminate all lines of evidence. Just a thought.

Reabie - LE has to have probable cause to get a warrant. Warrants are not drawn to exclude anything only to search for something. Reasonable probable cause for a judge is a reason why LE thinks evidence of the crime will be found at the location listed. LeE's job is not to prove someone did not do something.

KTaylorsc
07-30-2008, 06:19 PM
Reabie - LE has to have probable cause to get a warrant. Warrants are not drawn to exclude anything only to search for something. Reasonable probable cause for a judge is a reason why LE thinks evidence of the crime will be found at the location listed. LeE's job is not to prove someone did not do something.

so they wouldn't use the warrant to verify BC's e-mails between himself, NC and her father? among other things?

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:22 PM
so they wouldn't use the warrant to verify BC's e-mails between himself, NC and her father? among other things?

No Brad could do that himself why would LE need to do it for him? Why would LE waste their time trying to prove someone is innocent when a killer is free? It simply is not their job - their job is to find the killer and the evidence to prosecute said killer.

KTaylorsc
07-30-2008, 06:23 PM
No Brad could do that himself why would LE need to do it for him? Why would LE waste their time trying to prove someone is innocent when a killer is free? It simply is not their job - their job is to find the killer and the evidence to prosecute said killer.

I see...you have a point. Thanks for the info

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:26 PM
I see...you have a point. Thanks for the info

Here is a link to an actual search warrant, unrelated to this case, so you can see how they work. Note the probable cause section - this is what helps the judge to decide to issue the warrant or not

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2007/01/05/1127622/Young_Warrant_1-5-07.swf

KTaylorsc
07-30-2008, 06:29 PM
WOW thanks RC!

wirehair
07-30-2008, 06:30 PM
Maybe they found some hints of something on the computer at home and wanted to see if there was more on the computer at work. People out of BC's past have even commented on this site about how controlling he was in a very passive way. NC probably wanted to avoid fights in front of the children. Her attorney had probably told her not to run with the children to Canada. BC spent his own share of money I'm sure. The spouse that transports the children usually has the newer car. I'm sure that when they went anywhere as a family that they probably used that car. Maybe she thought she was physically safe up until right before she was killed. The younger generation is so concerned with image... both male and female. She must have thought a lot of her husband at one time to have even bought him that expensive laptop case. Did they ever entertain at their house? Maybe we don't have statements from the 3 people mention because they don't have anything to add or the police have talked to them and asked them not to make a statement.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:30 PM
WOW thanks RC!

No problem :)

Deduction
07-30-2008, 06:32 PM
Yep - the undisclosed location was issued the 25th which tends to make me think the 21st warrant revealed something and LE got the second warrant to follow up.

LE does not return a warrant the same day it is issued, nor do they return it once the search is done - instead they return it when the inventory taken is returned to LE and all items are logged and placed in evidence. Takes a few days.

I'm thinking the 21st warrant was searched shortly after - something cuaght LE's eye and they obtained the 25th warrant to check.

from what I am understanding the 21st warrant was not executed until the 29th but I could be wrong because as I said I am cautious of even what the media says.

Raebie
07-30-2008, 06:33 PM
Reabie - LE has to have probable cause to get a warrant. Warrants are not drawn to exclude anything only to search for something. Reasonable probable cause for a judge is a reason why LE thinks evidence of the crime will be found at the location listed. LeE's job is not to prove someone did not do something.

You are also assuming that the warrant for Cisco focuses on Brad.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:34 PM
from what I am understanding the 21st warrant was not executed until the 29th but I could be wrong because as I said I am cautious of even what the media says.

The way I interpret what was said - was Crump got copies of the returns on the 29th - I heard nothing in his report that indicated when the searches actually took place.


ETA - in the samplle warrant I posted - note the date the warrant was issued as 11/4/06 and the return of same warrant was 01/05/07

KTaylorsc
07-30-2008, 06:34 PM
I must admit that I am still on the fence BUT it's looking more and more like Brad had something to do with NC's murder.

I had hoped for the kid's sake he hadn't

DogWood
07-30-2008, 06:35 PM
from what I am understanding the 21st warrant was not executed until the 29th but I could be wrong because as I said I am cautious of even what the media says.

IIRC, in NC a SW must be executed within 48 hrs. of the time it's signed by the judge.

Sewing_Buddy
07-30-2008, 06:35 PM
I can NOT imagine sitting within 4 walls, losing my spouse forever and my children being taken from me, no job to go to right away, and anywhere I go in public people will spot me. It has got to be a horrible feeling.

If he did it I know it will get worse before it gets better, especially waiting for the knock on the door and the silence he is experiencing.

If he didn't do it, what a horrible punishment he's received for being innocent.

I've had the same thought...what is he DOING all day with no job, no family. Of course, if he hasn't been telling the truth, I guess he's busy trying to remember what he said. When he repeats his story, people (ie. LE) will be looking for inconsistencies!

My mother always said, "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember what you said."

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:36 PM
You are also assuming that the warrant for Cisco focuses on Brad.


Well, it was his office

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:38 PM
IIRC, in NC a SW must be executed within 48 hrs. of the time it's signed by the judge.

Yep - Hello !

Raebie
07-30-2008, 06:39 PM
I would assume he has incoming emails.

KTaylorsc
07-30-2008, 06:39 PM
I am also wondering if they are looking at Heather's xhusband as an accomplice? Seems strange to me that he and brad remained friends and that was where he went with the children after they found nancy...or maybe even a POI?

Deduction
07-30-2008, 06:41 PM
Reabie - LE has to have probable cause to get a warrant. Warrants are not drawn to exclude anything only to search for something. Reasonable probable cause for a judge is a reason why LE thinks evidence of the crime will be found at the location listed. LeE's job is not to prove someone did not do something.

Speaking of probable cause ---on this board stats being that 92% of murders are committed by spouse, SO, etc that seems to be probable cause enough to hang someone from the highest tree. I am just wondering with LE is the 92% stat factor ALONE enough probable cause for a search warrant. This is a serious question. I hope the answer is no, and common sense tells me it should be no, but I am just wondering. I hope I have explained this so you can understand my question.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:41 PM
I would assume he has incoming emails.

I would assume so as well - but Brad is cooperating so they say - he could have handed those emails over himself if they had anything to do with the murder. Wouldn't need a warrant for that -

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:43 PM
Speaking of probable cause ---on this board stats being that 92% of murders are committed by spouse, SO, etc that seems to be probable cause enough to hang someone from the highest tree. I am just wondering with LE is the 92% stat factor probable cause for a search warrant. This is a serious question. I hope the answer is no, and common sense tells me it should be no, but I am just wondering. I hope I have explained this so you can understand my question.

No judge would accept that as probable cause and issue a warrant. There has to be some specificity. Getting a warrant for a search of a company which probably has proprietary systems would take a really strong probable cause.

Raebie
07-30-2008, 06:46 PM
I would assume so as well - but Brad is cooperating so they say - he could have handed those emails over himself if they had anything to do with the murder. Wouldn't need a warrant for that -

You say it was Brad's office. Do we know the warrant specified what cube/equipment was included? Or could it also be directed at his office mates/good friends?

DogWood
07-30-2008, 06:47 PM
Yep - Hello !

Hi, Raisincharlie!

I sure would love to know more about the 'mystery' warrant.

Something to do with HM? Cell phone records? HT's? Any thoughts?

KTaylorsc
07-30-2008, 06:49 PM
You say it was Brad's office. Do we know the warrant specified what cube/equipment was included? Or could it also be directed at his office mates/good friends?

doesn't Scott Whatshisname work there? You know, Heather's ex.:waitasec:

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:49 PM
You say it was Brad's office. Do we know the warrant specified what cube/equipment was included? Or could it also be directed at his office mates/good friends?

You might want to watch the video - yes the sealing order identifed a specific office which was confirmed to be Brad's office.

Let me correct this - the reporter says he confirmed it as Brad's office - don't know what else to say about that.

KTaylorsc
07-30-2008, 06:50 PM
Hi, Raisincharlie!

I sure would love to know more about the 'mystery' warrant.

Something to do with HM? Cell phone records? HT's? Any thoughts?

hmmm never thought about the cell phone records...I just assumed they would have gotten that on the first go round....

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:51 PM
Hi, Raisincharlie!

I sure would love to know more about the 'mystery' warrant.

Something to do with HM? Cell phone records? HT's? Any thoughts?

Me too but it aint gonna happen ! I really have no idea at all but just a gut feeling is it was somewhere and someone we know nothing of of - again just a gut feeling.

Glad you are here !

DogWood
07-30-2008, 06:55 PM
Me too but it aint gonna happen ! I really have no idea at all but just a gut feeling is it was somewhere and someone we know nothing of of - again just a gut feeling.

Glad you are here !

Thanks! It's great to be here.

You're probably right. Perhaps another 'side dish' he was having.

Or perhaps his cell phone records prompted another warrant?

DogWood
07-30-2008, 06:57 PM
hmmm never thought about the cell phone records...I just assumed they would have gotten that on the first go round....

I'm sure they did. I was thinking that perhaps his records led to another SW of someone else's phone or computer for that matter?

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 06:59 PM
Thanks! It's great to be here.

You're probably right. Perhaps another 'side dish' he was having.

Or perhaps his cell phone records prompted another warrant?

We have so many names in this case - it could be related to one of them. But given the date of it as 25 July - either something turned up during the Cisco search or some new piece of information was received.

The cellphone records could very well have prompted another warrant. It does take a few days to go through all that data depending how far back the records went.

DogWood
07-30-2008, 07:02 PM
We have so many names in this case - it could be related to one of them. But given the date of it as 25 July - either something turned up during the Cisco search or some new piece of information was received.

The cellphone records could very well have prompted another warrant. It does take a few days to go through all that data depending how far back the records went.

I suppose it could be bank records as well.

Did y'all figure out what he did with the $55K from the increase of the LOC while I was trying to stay logged in. lol :)

SleuthyGal
07-30-2008, 07:05 PM
Yep, it doesn't mean they turned up anything yet...only that they feel the need to keep looking or search for something specific that they didn't have access to in a prior warrant. They can't just show up and start looking around so they need a SW. Again, it doesn't mean they will absolutely find something incriminating...only that they think they could.

I remember in terms of some legal eagles talking about getting an indictment...(NOT in this case but in the past) and the quote was, "well a ham sandwich could be indicted in the grand jury for probable cause."

IMHO63
07-30-2008, 07:07 PM
Actually I think there is a misunderstanding about this NEW SW it really isn't new it was dated June21st and was actually served yesterday on his office, or at least that is what I have seen reported. If this is true then apparently LE wasn't in such a big hurry to search his office. I am beginning to not believe but only about 25% of even what is in the media.

Deduction--

I believe you are right. The WRAL story leads you to believe there is another SW, but when reading the story in the News & Observer it only speaks of two SW's the one for the house and the one for his office at Cisco.

KTaylorsc
07-30-2008, 07:07 PM
I suppose it could be bank records as well.

Did y'all figure out what he did with the $55K from the increase of the LOC while I was trying to stay logged in. lol :)

there was a theory that BC paid some gang member to kill NC :waitasec:

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 07:08 PM
I suppose it could be bank records as well.

Did y'all figure out what he did with the $55K from the increase of the LOC while I was trying to stay logged in. lol :)

My mind can't even go there - no clue at all. :crazy:

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 07:11 PM
Deduction--

I believe you are right. The WRAL story leads you to believe there is another SW, but when reading the story in the News & Observer it only speaks of two SW's the one for the house and the one for his office at Cisco.

For those of you who might have missed it - here is the written report and the #2 takes you to the video report.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6294423

Onescout
07-30-2008, 07:14 PM
Yep - the undisclosed location was issued the 25th which tends to make me think the 21st warrant revealed something and LE got the second warrant to follow up.

LE does not return a warrant the same day it is issued, nor do they return it once the search is done - instead they return it when the inventory taken is returned to LE and all items are logged and placed in evidence. Takes a few days.

I'm thinking the 21st warrant was searched shortly after - something cuaght LE's eye and they obtained the 25th warrant to check.

This makes incredible sense.

reddress58
07-30-2008, 07:19 PM
Thanks! It's great to be here.

You're probably right. Perhaps another 'side dish' he was having.

Or perhaps his cell phone records prompted another warrant?
You know, DW, I've been thinking the "side dish" theory all along but didn't want to jump the gun with speculation without reason. But...being a woman spurned at one time, his initial desire for her to leave Canada with the children as soon as possible sounds like someone who's anxious to be free for someone else...in my experience. We still have to consider his relationship NC told her friends she found out about with an MBA classmate while in Europe. (if you check out the pictures of that trip on his website, you can try see for yourself all the possibilites. Yes, yes...I've already done that...and made a guess.)This was supposedly after the the HM affair. Just a thought...Not trying to start something. It's hard to ignore behavior you've experienced first hand.

Raebie
07-30-2008, 07:20 PM
A question about the warrant. Even if Brad was cooperating with LE, wouldn't they need a warrant to search Cisco assets & property?

SleuthyGal
07-30-2008, 07:21 PM
A question about the warrant. Even if Brad was cooperating with LE, wouldn't they need a warrant to search Cisco assets & property?

Absolutely yes! He does not own those assets. So for LE to search they need the permission of the owner (i.e. Cisco).

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 07:21 PM
A question about the warrant. Even if Brad was cooperating with LE, wouldn't they need a warrant to search Cisco assets & property?

I have no doubt that CIsco would demand a warrant.

Onescout
07-30-2008, 07:25 PM
SOmething is either leading LE to something new or not adding up. One piece of evidence begets another and it takes a long time to go through it all, especially records of calls, and history on the computer.

The affadavits and BC rebuttal from the custody battle are supplying valued info that LE would've had to accumulate as depo's after BC was charged ( and possibly before as statements) But the friends came forward for the kids, and BC had to respond.
SO it's all such a bonus that these things exist!

As Tom Petty says, "The wa-a-aa-iting is the hardest part".

DogWood
07-30-2008, 07:28 PM
You know, DW, I've been thinking the "side dish" theory all along but didn't want to jump the gun with speculation without reason. But...being a woman spurned at one time, his initial desire for her to leave Canada with the children as soon as possible sounds like someone who's anxious to be free for someone else...in my experience. We still have to consider his relationship NC told her friends she found out about with an MBA classmate while in Europe. (if you check out the pictures of that trip on his website, you can try see for yourself all the possibilites. Yes, yes...I've already done that...and made a guess.)This was supposedly after the the HM affair. Just a thought...Not trying to start something. It's hard to ignore behavior you've experienced first hand.

In reading the affidavits, there were perhaps 4 that Nancy knew about...

Yes, I've seen that picture. ETA: My guess is we're thinking about the same photo(s).

The pattern of his behavior is hard to ignore, imo.:)

Raebie
07-30-2008, 07:29 PM
I have no doubt that CIsco would demand a warrant.

Which goes back to my original point that if LE was trying to clear Brad based on information that he had provided him...information that was stored on his work PC, they would need a warrant to obtain it.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 07:35 PM
Which goes back to my original point that if LE was trying to clear Brad based on information that he had provided him...information that was stored on his work PC, they would need a warrant to obtain it.

I repsectfully disagree. I believe the people living in Cary should be calling for the PD Chief's head if she is expending resources to clear a man of something he has not been charged with or because of a custody case instead of searching for a killer and getting them off the streets. Just does not happen.

wirehair
07-30-2008, 07:37 PM
Wouldn't he have access to a computer where he is staying? He could check all of his mail from there. He could have had many alias accounts. He might have even handled that from a remote location on someone elses computer. The extra search might be one of his extra curricula "friends". I wonder if they searched his attic at his house to look for an extra hard drive that maybe he hid up there under the insulation. He might have spent that Saturday morning disconnecting the Cisco phone since he said he had.

IMHO63
07-30-2008, 07:39 PM
For those of you who might have missed it - here is the written report and the #2 takes you to the video report.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6294423

Thanks for the link, that makes things much clearer.

SleuthyGal
07-30-2008, 07:40 PM
They're not looking for information to 'clear' him...they're looking for EVIDENCE that might link him (or a suspect) to this crime. They might find it; they might not, but that's why SW are issued for every criminal case, including this one.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 07:41 PM
Wouldn't he have access to a computer where he is staying? He could check all of his mail from there. He could have had many alias accounts. He might have even handled that from a remote location on someone elses computer. The extra search might be one of his extra curricula "friends". I wonder if they searched his attic at his house to look for an extra hard drive that maybe he hid up there under the insulation. He might have spent that Saturday morning disconnecting the Cisco phone since he said he had.

Good thought - but he would definitely need a computer I would think - I suspect the hard drives from the one(s) at his house were taken during the search of the house.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 07:42 PM
Thanks for the link, that makes things much clearer.

No problem. :)

wirehair
07-30-2008, 07:44 PM
Please give the link again to his website with the Europe pictures

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 07:46 PM
Please give the link again to his website with the Europe pictures

Bingo:

http://adventuresofbrad.com/joomla/index.php

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 07:52 PM
If BC is cooperating as the LE states he is, all he has to do is sign a release authorizing CPD permission to obtain any information they need from the home phone as well as the cell phone company. This allows them to get his past bills as well as find out who the calls are to and from.

DogWood
07-30-2008, 08:03 PM
If BC is cooperating as the LE states he is, all he has to do is sign a release authorizing CPD permission to obtain any information they need from the home phone as well as the cell phone company. This allows them to get his past bills as well as find out who the calls are to and from.

I don't know, momto3kids. I'd think they'd want SW's for that. Especially Nancy's phone. I could be very wrong tho.

carolinalady
07-30-2008, 08:16 PM
I was going back and reading BC's rebuttal affidavit (http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/24/3266785/July_24_rebuttal_affidavit_of_Brad_Cooper.pdf) about his triathalon training. I misread it the first time. It does say that he has not trained for a triathlon since June 07 (and we know his post from Jan 08 indicates he was back to training). I originally read it that he had done NO training since June 07. However, the affidavit states he's had the odd 1 hour workout per week. His training log shows a total of roughly 9 hours this year. Lots of weeks have no hours logged, some have a few. Granted, they aren't an odd one hour per week (I did see one that was about 4hrs/week). I did not go back to the June 07 time period (only looked at 2008).

I was wondering if he just was averaging those hours out? Was it smart to say odd 1 hour per week? NO b/c there clearly are some that are more. Would he intentionally lie about that? Certainly he would realize someone would check his site. Who knows? I guess it will be up to a judge to decide when the custody hearing rolls around (which could be a non-issue IF BC is guilty).

Cheyenne130
07-30-2008, 08:22 PM
I was going back and reading BC's rebuttal affidavit (http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/24/3266785/July_24_rebuttal_affidavit_of_Brad_Cooper.pdf) about his triathalon training. I misread it the first time. It does say that he has not trained for a triathlon since June 07 (and we know his post from Jan 08 indicates he was back to training). I originally read it that he had done NO training since June 07. However, the affidavit states he's had the odd 1 hour workout per week. His training log shows a total of roughly 9 hours this year. Lots of weeks have no hours logged, some have a few. Granted, they aren't an odd one hour per week (I did see one that was about 4hrs/week). I did not go back to the June 07 time period (only looked at 2008).

I was wondering if he just was averaging those hours out? Was it smart to say odd 1 hour per week? NO b/c there clearly are some that are more. Would he intentionally lie about that? Certainly he would realize someone would check his site. Who knows? I guess it will be up to a judge to decide when the custody hearing rolls around (which could be a non-issue IF BC is guilty).

He indicated on his website that he had been off his training because of the work on his degree. I didn't see his family mentioned. He did stop working out after January, but that isn't what he had indicated in his affidavit. IMO

reddress58
07-30-2008, 08:22 PM
Also: Finally Back Training Again......
Written by Brad
Thursday, 10 January 2008
After almost 5 months of not training... I'm Back!!! Between work, MBA and holidays my training was put on hold until now. Now that my MBA is complete and the holidays are over, its definitely time to start training for Ironman Lake Placid in July 2008.

http://adventuresofbrad.com/joomla/i...4&limitstart=0

The Ironman in Lake Placid is 7-22-08.


Got this from a post by SeriouslySearching back on the first thread. Just what I stated earlier today: He says in his affidavit he hasn't trained for an ironman since June, 2007

The Saint
07-30-2008, 08:25 PM
whether the VOiP phone handset had a Cisco logo on it or not, i think it is apparent that nancy and her friends suspected that nancy's calls on the house line(s) were being monitored by brad. nancy used her cell phone instead and that explains why the bill was so high for the cell phone.

brad's family , in their affidavits, tried to make it seem like nancy was extravagant by saying that they saw a bill for a $ 200 pedicure.

my late mother was born with painful hammer toes and wore high heels for decades.
she had many pedicures at the podiatrist's office . it had nothing to do with getting her toenails painted red while she read the National Enquirer. it had everything to do with her being able to walk without pain.

many dancers and runners have mangled feet. it is a fact.

was nancy's pedicure really medical treatment, regardless of whether it took place at a salon or a podiatrist's office?

was it reimbursed by medical insurance?

was it a gift that was included in a day of beauty at a day spa?

was it a reward for staying home and taking care of the girls?

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 08:26 PM
I don't know, momto3kids. I'd think they'd want SW's for that. Especially Nancy's phone. I could be very wrong tho.

I just went thru this recently and all I did was sign the forms. There is also a chance NC's cell was in BC's name if they had the same provider. If Cisco provided him phone there is still a chance her phone was in his name.

I would think the home SW would cover her cell being part of the evidence if it was needed.

reddress58
07-30-2008, 08:28 PM
whether the VOiP phone handset had a Cisco logo on it or not, i think it is apparent that nancy and her friends suspected that nancy's calls on the house line(s) were being monitored by brad. nancy used her cell phone instead and that explains why the bill was so high for the cell phone.

brad's family , in their affidavits, tried to make it seem like nancy was extravagant by saying that they saw a bill for a $ 200 pedicure.

my late mother was born with painful hammer toes and wore high heels for decades.
she had many pedicures at the podiatrist's office . it had nothing to do with getting her toenails painted red while she read the National Enquirer. it had everything to do with her being able to walk without pain.

many dancers and runners have mangled feet. it is a fact.

was nancy's pedicure really medical treatment, regardless of whether it took place at a salon or a podiatrist's office?

was it reimbursed by medical insurance?

was it a gift that was included in a day of beauty at a day spa?

was it a reward for staying home and taking care of the girls?
I've never heard of a regular pedicure at the salon costing $200.

carolinalady
07-30-2008, 08:30 PM
Also: Finally Back Training Again......
Written by Brad
Thursday, 10 January 2008
After almost 5 months of not training... I'm Back!!! Between work, MBA and holidays my training was put on hold until now. Now that my MBA is complete and the holidays are over, its definitely time to start training for Ironman Lake Placid in July 2008.

http://adventuresofbrad.com/joomla/i...4&limitstart=0

The Ironman in Lake Placid is 7-22-08.


Got this from a post by SeriouslySearching back on the first thread. Just what I stated earlier today: He says in his affidavit he hasn't trained for an ironman since June, 2007

What I was pointing out is that I originally missed that he said he had the odd 1 hour/week workout. I originally read it that he had done ZERO training since Jun 07.

Bob&Bob
07-30-2008, 08:31 PM
Some of the statements for NC were done ont he 23rd. Obviously Carrie and NC had some things in common. She wouldn't have to confirm or deny BC's statement but do what NC other friends did and state times and days and ackknowledge the relationship. Maybe why she cancelled? Did she plan to do it on Saturday? Her friends might say no, but let Carrie tell it.

The issue I am having is NO word from her or Diana Duncan's husband either.


Maybe their affadavits weren't very interesting.

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/internetworkers/2003-October/012402.html

Actually the next post in the thread was very
funny. But only for those who need a little comic relief.

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/internetworkers/2003-October/012403.html

The Saint
07-30-2008, 08:32 PM
I've never heard of a regular pedicure at the salon costing $200.


exactly. that is why i think it happened at a doctor's office
and the box was checked for "pedicure" or that it was part of a package of a day of beauty at a salon or spa.

i think a pedicure costs about $25 w/o tips.

how about all the money that brad spent getting ready for his Ironman events?
clothes
supplements and energy drinks
shoes
bike
equipment
travel
hotels
entrance fees


just to name a few

The Saint
07-30-2008, 08:35 PM
do you think that some of these affidavits (on both sides) could have been taken back when there was talk of the divorce in april?

could they have been just updated because nancy wound up dead?

i think both sides were preparing their cases and gathering ammunition.

The Saint
07-30-2008, 08:37 PM
did brad only back off from training so many hours due to a warning from his divorce lawyer? did he only start to train less around the time he was trying to memorize his daughters' favorite colors and creatures?

Onescout
07-30-2008, 08:44 PM
I've never heard of a regular pedicure at the salon costing $200.

Yes they do exist, even higher than $200.00, they are called "medicures"
as you guessed runners and dancers have a need for such things:

http://http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/04/fashion/thursdaystyles/04skin.html

boxy
07-30-2008, 08:45 PM
Carrie Clarke could have easily admitted or denied what BC stated about Friday mornings cancellation. Did they not want to show BC did state some truth in his statement if he is telling the truth? She jogged with NC and had to know some things about BC. I can't imagine she had many different things to say about BC or did she? :confused:

Diana Duncan's husband???? Did he not do one because he had some positive things to say?

I am just saying it is strange to see who was picked and chosen...Many spouses, but the ones directly across the street only the wife did one? JA jogs with NC, but so does Carrie.

Theresa went to the cameras immediately talking about her friend NC, started organize the search, where is she?

This was for the custody case not criminal...why would they not do a statement? This is why I find it strange not everyone involved with NC did one.

For the record, the correct spelling of the name is Carey Clark. See reference on runner thread.

carolinalady
07-30-2008, 08:45 PM
did brad only back off from training so many hours due to a warning from his divorce lawyer? did he only start to train less around the time he was trying to memorize his daughters' favorite colors and creatures?

His last exercise logged was for the week ending 2/3/08. I think Nancy's family said she retained an attorney in March.

Onescout
07-30-2008, 08:47 PM
try this link for the medicure:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/04/fashion/thursdaystyles/04skin.html

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 08:51 PM
Did NC's family stay at The Umstead Hotel while in Cary? I think I read they stayed there.
If this happens to be the families taste, then $200 won't go far at Umstead Spa if this is where NC went.

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 08:58 PM
For the record, the correct spelling of the name is Carey Clark. See reference is runner thread.

Hmm.. then Jessica Adam didn't know how to spell it in her affidavit..
Just spelling it the way she did in a sworn statement.

DogWood
07-30-2008, 09:08 PM
I just went thru this recently and all I did was sign the forms. There is also a chance NC's cell was in BC's name if they had the same provider. If Cisco provided him phone there is still a chance her phone was in his name.

I would think the home SW would cover her cell being part of the evidence if it was needed.

True.

Just wondering if he would do that...what day did he lawyer up?

ETA: Or was he always lawyered up? Was K&B his representation in the separation/divorce proceedings?

Jaydee0158
07-30-2008, 09:08 PM
Here is a link to an actual search warrant, unrelated to this case, so you can see how they work. Note the probable cause section - this is what helps the judge to decide to issue the warrant or not

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2007/01/05/1127622/Young_Warrant_1-5-07.swf

What makes it "probable?" Motive? Opportunity? Or a piece of concrete evidence, such as blood at a crime scene, a footprint, a tire mark, DNA? Could that term be loosely applied here?

Jaydee0158
07-30-2008, 09:14 PM
You might want to watch the video - yes the sealing order identifed a specific office which was confirmed to be Brad's office.

Let me correct this - the reporter says he confirmed it as Brad's office - don't know what else to say about that.

And how many times has the MSM incorrectly reported something as fact?
:waitasec:

The Saint
07-30-2008, 09:14 PM
I was going back and reading BC's rebuttal affidavit (http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/24/3266785/July_24_rebuttal_affidavit_of_Brad_Cooper.pdf) about his triathalon training. I misread it the first time. It does say that he has not trained for a triathlon since June 07 (and we know his post from Jan 08 indicates he was back to training). I originally read it that he had done NO training since June 07. However, the affidavit states he's had the odd 1 hour workout per week. His training log shows a total of roughly 9 hours this year. Lots of weeks have no hours logged, some have a few. Granted, they aren't an odd one hour per week (I did see one that was about 4hrs/week). I did not go back to the June 07 time period (only looked at 2008).

I was wondering if he just was averaging those hours out? Was it smart to say odd 1 hour per week? NO b/c there clearly are some that are more. Would he intentionally lie about that? Certainly he would realize someone would check his site. Who knows? I guess it will be up to a judge to decide when the custody hearing rolls around (which could be a non-issue IF BC is guilty).

as previously mentioned by another poster,
i think that there are discrepancies in what brad said in his affs about his training vs. what he said on his adventuresofbrad website

panthera
07-30-2008, 09:19 PM
I've never heard of a regular pedicure at the salon costing $200.
I can't see it costing that either unless it was part of a day-spa package that cost $200. for everything. :)

lunarmodule
07-30-2008, 09:28 PM
I imagine the Umstead Spa would be the priciest in the area. Their top of line pedicure is about $85.

Regardless, I think this is overexaggeration on Cooper Pere's part. I mean, really, what a callous (pardon the pun) thing to bring up.

If the bill was $200, it was probably for a spa day or half-day. Which might, IMO, even have been a Mother's Day gift of some sort.

Cads.

reddress58
07-30-2008, 09:31 PM
as previously mentioned by another poster,
i think that there are discrepancies in what brad said in his affs about his training vs. what he said on his adventuresofbrad website
I continue to bring this discrepancy to everyone's attention because I am very familiar with men(women) training for this extremely time consuming and difficult type of racing event. People who do Iron Men events don't just QUIT. This type of athleticism is an addiction; and nothing but an injury will stand in one's way. It really does become a physical high, and the competition itself is hard to give up.

Without giving details, my sister's divorce had a lot to do with this particular kind of situation, so I know firsthand how impossible is for one to completely "stop" training. It doesn't happen. If he were forced to give it up by either NC or his own attorney, he'd be very, very resentful and very cranky! Believe me. It's a physical withdrawl as well as mental.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 09:32 PM
And how many times has the MSM incorrectly reported something as fact?
:waitasec:

MSM - what or who is that? Not defending the media, they do get things wrong in their rush to break a story. However when one is standing with the legal docs in hand, maybe not so much of an inaccuracy.

boxy
07-30-2008, 09:33 PM
did brad only back off from training so many hours due to a warning from his divorce lawyer? did he only start to train less around the time he was trying to memorize his daughters' favorite colors and creatures?

Brad may have done it and there may be evidence that he did, but it isn't this list and it isn't his training log.

One possible completely benign explanation for the list is that it is the security questions and answers for an account. I too write them down; too much stuff to remember to have to think twice about the exact answer. Sometimes these security questions themselves (as opposed to the answers) are used as a security measure. You have to identify which questions you answered from a list of questions.

Brad's Jan 2008 post said he was back training. But he didn't train much at all, so his affidavit is truthful in that regard. Um, New Year's Resolution? I always keep mine (cough, cough), bet you do, too.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 09:34 PM
I imagine the Umstead Spa would be the priciest in the area. Their top of line pedicure is about $85.

Regardless, I think this is overexaggeration on Cooper Pere's part. I mean, really, what a callous (pardon the pun) thing to bring up.

If the bill was $200, it was probably for a spa day or half-day. Which might, IMO, even have been a Mother's Day gift of some sort.

Cads.

I suspect you are on to something - Cooper Pere said he saw it on a bank statement - Nancy didn't have access to the bank account(s).

reddress58
07-30-2008, 09:36 PM
I suspect you are on to something - Cooper Pere said he saw it on a bank statement - Nancy didn't have access to the bank account(s).
Maybe it was a gift from BC for "side dish".

boxy
07-30-2008, 09:39 PM
Hmm.. then Jessica Adam didn't know how to spell it in her affidavit..
Just spelling it the way she did in a sworn statement.

Neither JA nor Brad spelled her name correctly, but then Brad didn't know her last name nor which condo she lived in. However, the person who lives in a condo about 2 miles from the Coopers and who ran with Nancy in June 2008 is Carey Clark. I've provided one reference (on running thread); there are others.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 09:48 PM
What makes it "probable?" Motive? Opportunity? Or a piece of concrete evidence, such as blood at a crime scene, a footprint, a tire mark, DNA? Could that term be loosely applied here?

Probable cause varies and in a murder case tends to include items found in a previous warrant. As such the probable cause tends to increase with each warrant. A good example is the siezure of a hard drive and a jump drive from a woman when it was discovered that the husband of a murdered woman was having an affiar with this woman. Blood defintely depending on where it is with respect to the person being served. You might want to look at other threads, most of them have links to search warrants - will give you an idea.

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 10:05 PM
True.

Just wondering if he would do that...what day did he lawyer up?

ETA: Or was he always lawyered up? Was K&B his representation in the separation/divorce proceedings?

I don't know for sure but my guess is July 15th or 16th is when he lawyered up. It wasn't long after the status was changed from missing to homicide based on all the motions filed.

ETA - the search warrant on the house would have most likely sent him scrambling for a lawyer - he knew what the probable cause was.

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 10:07 PM
I hope I did this link correct....
Investigators focused on Brad Cooper

http://http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6297032

CARYISHOME
07-30-2008, 10:10 PM
In reading the affidavits, there were perhaps 4 that Nancy knew about...

Yes, I've seen that picture. ETA: My guess is we're thinking about the same photo(s).

The pattern of his behavior is hard to ignore, imo.:)

Trying to catch up after 2 days of hard work.

When I saw that one picture in Europe, France I think it was?, I just shook my head...It's speculation on my part, I know, but, boy, it just didn't seem right according to my gut...And - I'm learning to trust my gut after all these years!

CARYISHOME
07-30-2008, 10:25 PM
I continue to bring this discrepancy to everyone's attention because I am very familiar with men(women) training for this extremely time consuming and difficult type of racing event. People who do Iron Men events don't just QUIT. This type of athleticism is an addiction; and nothing but an injury will stand in one's way. It really does become a physical high, and the competition itself is hard to give up.

Without giving details, my sister's divorce had a lot to do with this particular kind of situation, so I know firsthand how impossible is for one to completely "stop" training. It doesn't happen. If he were forced to give it up by either NC or his own attorney, he'd be very, very resentful and very cranky! Believe me. It's a physical withdrawl as well as mental.

I agree. It would put a serious cramp in his style. But...something happened....

cochrngj
07-30-2008, 10:27 PM
I just checked the WRAL website and saw an updated story about an additonal search warrant being issued to search the CISCO office at Research Triangle Park. The media is asking that the warrant be open in an appeal tomorrow. Here's a link to the story:
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3302342/

SleuthyGal
07-30-2008, 10:28 PM
When I saw that one picture in Europe, France I think it was?, I just shook my head...It's speculation on my part, I know, but, boy, it just didn't seem right according to my gut...And - I'm learning to trust my gut after all these years!

Okay someone needs to send me a direct message because I looked at all the France pics and I don't know what *one pic* y'all are talking about. I went through all 33 France pics and I can see one very attractive woman who I think most men would be interested in...but I didn't see anything particularly salacious or necessarily telling. So obviously I missed something. Someone help a gal out here... please?

CARYISHOME
07-30-2008, 10:35 PM
Okay someone needs to send me a direct message because I looked at all the France pics and I don't know what *one pic* y'all are talking about. I went through all 33 France pics and I can see one very attractive woman who I think most men would be interested in...but I didn't see anything particularly salacious or necessarily telling. So obviously I missed something. Someone help a gal out here... please?

Oh dear - I can't remember where I saw it now, I'll have to search. The one I am thinking of is one where there was a picture of a woman with a mountain as the backdrop. Very nice picture. It may look perfectly innocent (and could be, I suppose) but it just bugged me when I saw it.

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 10:40 PM
Okay someone needs to send me a direct message because I looked at all the France pics and I don't know what *one pic* y'all are talking about. I went through all 33 France pics and I can see one very attractive woman who I think most men would be interested in...but I didn't see anything particularly salacious or necessarily telling. So obviously I missed something. Someone help a gal out here... please?

That goes for me too. I can't get any photo to enlarge big enough to see what is being talked about.

boxy
07-30-2008, 10:46 PM
Oh dear - I can't remember where I saw it now, I'll have to search. The one I am thinking of is one where there was a picture of a woman with a mountain as the backdrop. Very nice picture. It may look perfectly innocent (and could be, I suppose) but it just bugged me when I saw it.

Not sure there is anything untoward in these pictures but if I had to pick out a woman that was Brad's interest on this trip, I would pick the blond woman in the center of picture #3 (of 33) with her arm draped over Brad's leg. That arm on the thigh seems a bit familiar and it is there for several poses in this picture. Maybe it's just a French thing. You see her in the vicinity of Brad in several other pictures, but not very close and no contact, and she went climbing with him. Could all be innocent. Just saying, if I had to choose.

I think CARYiSHOME is referring to the woman in picture #10 (woman with mountains in the background.

jilly
07-30-2008, 10:46 PM
That goes for me too. I can't get any photo to enlarge big enough to see what is being talked about.

You have to click on it mom - I spent the longest time spinning back and forth with those photos - I felt nauseous. :crazy:that seems to be a very sophisticated photo album - this technology really amazes me!

SleuthyGal
07-30-2008, 10:48 PM
Oh dear - I can't remember where I saw it now, I'll have to search. The one I am thinking of is one where there was a picture of a woman with a mountain as the backdrop. Very nice picture. It may look perfectly innocent (and could be, I suppose) but it just bugged me when I saw it.

Okay yes, I know which one that is. I looked at it a few times. I can make a case for it looking suspicious, but I can also make a case for it looking innocent too.

I had a male colleague at one job years ago, married, who was flirtatious and he and I became friends. In some pics of our team that year you could have easily come to the conclusion that something might be going on. In fact he had his arm around me in some pics at a group lunch, along with some others too. And nothing happened, ever. Although, in the interest of full disclosure, he did end up getting divorced a year later and I understand has been remarried for several years now. So maybe his flirting was a sign that all was not well in his personal life and it was his way of getting some attention. But he and I were only platonic friends.

<edit> I didn't notice any arm on the thigh...I will have to go back and do my own CSI-affair investigation! <clonk-clonk>

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 10:49 PM
I see the other link I did was not done correctly by me...let me try again.:rolleyes:

This is from WTVD this evening at 8:34 regarding "Investigators focused on Brad Cooper"

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6297032

CARYISHOME
07-30-2008, 10:52 PM
That goes for me too. I can't get any photo to enlarge big enough to see what is being talked about.

Ok, here's the one I'm thinking of. I know it looks perfectly innocent - just bugs me.

<a href="http://adventuresofbrad.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_expose&Itemid=36" target="_blank">France Picture</a>

SleuthyGal
07-30-2008, 10:54 PM
OH! That wasn't the one I thought he might necessarily find attractive...I was thinking it was the gal in the red shirt sitting next to him. The 3rd pic...the gal with arm on his leg...that did not jump out at me at all. If you look, her other arm is kind of across the other guy's leg too, albeit a bit lower so it's not as clear. I got a 'buddy' vibe from her...at least in that particular pic.

CARYISHOME
07-30-2008, 10:55 PM
http://adventuresofbrad.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_expose&Itemid=36

Sorry about the above. Hope this works.

The Saint
07-30-2008, 10:57 PM
I continue to bring this discrepancy to everyone's attention because I am very familiar with men(women) training for this extremely time consuming and difficult type of racing event. People who do Iron Men events don't just QUIT. This type of athleticism is an addiction; and nothing but an injury will stand in one's way. It really does become a physical high, and the competition itself is hard to give up.

Without giving details, my sister's divorce had a lot to do with this particular kind of situation, so I know firsthand how impossible is for one to completely "stop" training. It doesn't happen. If he were forced to give it up by either NC or his own attorney, he'd be very, very resentful and very cranky! Believe me. It's a physical withdrawl as well as mental.

i think he was lying about giving it up.
i didn't find his explanation in his aff convincing about how many hours
he was on the stationary bike. nancy's friend claimed 8 hrs while watching DVDs, he said something like 4-6 hrs (as if that sounded more reasonable... :bananalama:)



a friend of mine competed in IronWoman contests and her husband cycled with her. she wasn't nutty, just athletic and driven.
the men might be diffferent.

SleuthyGal
07-30-2008, 10:58 PM
Picture #10 is the one with the gal who has the mountains behind her. And she is the gal wearing the red top in the group picture. That's the one I focused on.

The Saint
07-30-2008, 11:00 PM
http://adventuresofbrad.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_expose&Itemid=36

Sorry about the above. Hope this works.


it's the gal hanging from the rock, looking over her shoulder.

CARYISHOME
07-30-2008, 11:00 PM
Picture #10 is the one with the gal who has the mountains behind her. And she is the gal wearing the red top in the group picture. That's the one I focused on.

Yep - I think so, too. They are the same.

CARYISHOME
07-30-2008, 11:01 PM
it's the gal hanging from the rock, looking over her shoulder.

Yes, it is.

The Saint
07-30-2008, 11:03 PM
watch out, guys. i didn't click on the link. if brad has a sitemeter, he can see your IPs

The Saint
07-30-2008, 11:05 PM
back to nancy...

was there any fun time for her when brad was attentive and caring rather than abusive and controlling?
when did it start to go bad?

CARYISHOME
07-30-2008, 11:09 PM
watch out, guys. i didn't click on the link. if brad has a sitemeter, he can see your IPs

I have a dynamic IP - it will change in no time. Should I be particularly concerned?

SleuthyGal
07-30-2008, 11:09 PM
The scenery is *gorgeous* where they were rock climbing. Absolutely stunning. I know, that's not the point, but that's what really jumped out at me.

The Saint
07-30-2008, 11:13 PM
I have a dynamic IP - it will change in no time. Should I be particularly concerned?

i think he'll be arrested soon, so i would say no, not really.

Tink56
07-30-2008, 11:19 PM
it's the gal hanging from the rock, looking over her shoulder.

My virus detector won't let me open Brad's pictures. Everytime I try to open it I receive a message that there is Trojan worm or "something." The virus scanner quarantines the "little guy."

Those of you opening the site may want to run a scan. :eek:

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 11:24 PM
Picture #10 is the one with the gal who has the mountains behind her. And she is the gal wearing the red top in the group picture. That's the one I focused on.

Me too..I think the girl in red. The other girl appears to be leaning the other direction with her arm over the other guys leg as well.

The Saint
07-30-2008, 11:25 PM
i wouldn't put it past him...

raisincharlie
07-30-2008, 11:26 PM
Me too..I think the girl in red. The other girl appears to be leaning the other direction with her arm over the other guys leg as well.

He sure was a pitiful, deprived, wife beaten down fella wasn't he?

Bob&Bob
07-30-2008, 11:27 PM
me too..i think the girl in red. The other girl appears to be leaning the other direction with her arm over the other guys leg as well.

who cares how they're leaning?????????????????

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 11:34 PM
i think he'll be arrested soon, so i would say no, not really.
Maybe it is me, but I don't think he will be. I just get a feeling there is someone else they are looking at besides BC. In the end it might be BC, but I think they have too many variables at the moment that aren't connecting to put this puzzle together.

CyberPro
07-30-2008, 11:37 PM
Thanks! It's great to be here.

You're probably right. Perhaps another 'side dish' he was having.

Or perhaps his cell phone records prompted another warrant?

I COULD be wrong... it seems to me that has happened once before, but I would not think you would need a SW for Cell Phone records, unless you are going to take a trip in the wayback machine. I would think at least several months of phone records would be obtained by issuing a supoena to the provider. I think this is how you get a business to provide records to LE, not by raiding their offices to grab the info from their files.

Now, if the Coopers had, say, a storage unit that might have paper records from previous years, or some other potential evidence, this would need a SW for a location not covered by the previously issued SWs. - do not read into this that I know anything about where they are looking, I just used the storage unit as a hypothetical instance.

While I am talking, I am a member of Lifetime Fitness as well. They have very nice locker rooms, but the lockers are only for your use while you are working out. They are supposedly cleaned out each night, but I am not sure how that happens, they are open 24 hours/day, and I often do my workout around midnight. You do have to put your membership card into the lock to make the locker key work, then take the card with you when you leave, thereby rendering the lock inoperative.

CyberPro

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 11:38 PM
He sure was a pitiful, deprived, wife beaten down fella wasn't he?

Yup....looks like he was not having a very good time in my books.

Bob&Bob
07-30-2008, 11:40 PM
Yup....looks like he was not having a very good time in my books.

What's that supposed to mean?

SleuthyGal
07-30-2008, 11:41 PM
Hmmm sounds like Lifetime Fitness is a beacon for the socially-inclined as well as a font for the sleuthiest. I'll be waiting for my invite! ;-D

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 11:42 PM
Hi cyberpro....you don't need a search warrant for phone records....land line or cell provider. I just had to go thru this.

Bob&Bob
07-30-2008, 11:45 PM
Hello? Hello?

The Saint
07-30-2008, 11:47 PM
who cares how they're leaning?????????????????
body language. it's a clue, B&B

The Saint
07-30-2008, 11:52 PM
Maybe it is me, but I don't think he will be. I just get a feeling there is someone else they are looking at besides BC. In the end it might be BC, but I think they have too many variables at the moment that aren't connecting to put this puzzle together.
scott heider would be on my list to investigate after his smug affidavit.

it is obvious why he and brad are friends --- they got burned by the same woman , heather metour (a non-hyphenated name; are you happy now, scott??!). they can commiserate.

CARYISHOME
07-30-2008, 11:52 PM
Maybe it is me, but I don't think he will be. I just get a feeling there is someone else they are looking at besides BC. In the end it might be BC, but I think they have too many variables at the moment that aren't connecting to put this puzzle together.

Yep - something is not connecting for them, I think. They are trying but, somehow, it isn't a slam dunk. Something else is going on.

Just sayin...

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 11:54 PM
If BC's computers were taken when would he get them back? I would assume if they take 1 they would take all of them if there was more than 1 at his home.
Would it be a quick process just to check his hard drive or kept until court if he is the one arrested?
Does anyone know?

Bob&Bob
07-30-2008, 11:54 PM
body language. it's a clue, B&B


Just so I'll know.

Fully admitting that I have figured out that I am the
champion of lost causes, still, doesn't it seem a little
weird to

1 care how he is leaning
2 care how someone else is leaning
3 Criticize someone about the flowers
3 criticize someone for not spending time with family
then when he does it's too much time
4 different people say he gave varying amounts of money and all of them were the wrong amounts
5 he shouldn't have asked her to return the laptop cover
6 he gets criticized for not going to parties and obviously
he did but what? not enough or too late?
7 was he supposed to be happy about his child's nose?
and since he wasn't doesn't that say something?
8 why in the hell can't he have a hobby?
9 PEOPLE GO ON TRIPS!
10 Did this guy ever do anything right?

Jesus Christ

The Saint
07-30-2008, 11:56 PM
Just so I'll know.

Fully admitting that I have figured out that I am the
champion of lost causes, still, doesn't it seem a little
weird to

1 care how he is leaning
2 care how someone else is leaning
3 Criticize someone about the flowers
3 criticize someone for not spending time with family
then when he does it's too much time
4 different people say he gave varying amounts of money and all of them were the wrong amounts
5 he shouldn't have asked her to return the laptop cover
6 he gets criticized for not going to parties and obviously
he did but what? not enough or too late?
7 was he supposed to be happy about his child's nose?
and since he wasn't doesn't that say something?
8 why in the hell can't he have a hobby?
9 PEOPLE GO ON TRIPS!
10 Did this guy ever do anything right?

Jesus Christ
no.
11. he killed his wife.

gosh, bob&bob. you are very high maintenance.

momto3kids
07-30-2008, 11:59 PM
scott heider would be on my list to investigate after his smug affidavit.

it is obvious why he and brad are friends --- the got burned by the same woman , heather metour (a non-hyphenated name; are you happy now, scott??!). they can commiserate.

Scott came to mind with me as well. I think Scott might have some information to offer, but I don't know if it is to the extent of a bombshell.

If there is indeed a 3rd SW I was wondering if BC used the library computers :waitasec: That would take a SW.

Bob&Bob
07-30-2008, 11:59 PM
no.
11. he killed his wife.

gosh, bob&bob. you are very high maintenance.


Oh that's really funny.

Except it's not.

How about some

P
R
O
O
F

CyberPro
07-31-2008, 12:00 AM
Me too..I think the girl in red. The other girl appears to be leaning the other direction with her arm over the other guys leg as well.

It is hard for me to tell, since the pics, even in the larger size are kind of small, but I think the "arm on the leg" is misleading. It looks to me like that is HIS arm on his leg, and the she has her arm bent and forearm across her own lap.

I might be wrong, but that is the way it looks to me.

CyberPro

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:01 AM
Oh that's really funny.

Except it's not.

How about some

P
R
O
O
F
read the affidavits, drama queen, and calm down. we're talking here.

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:02 AM
Oh really? Well it really would be nice if someone had a sense
of humor like Kurt Schlatzburger wouldn't it?

momto3kids
07-31-2008, 12:05 AM
B&B...would you feel better to know BC has been out doing yard work, bagging the yard waste, doing the recycling, and trash out for trash day tomorrow. Now that is a good man if I must say so myself!!!

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:07 AM
If BC's computers were taken when would he get them back? I would assume if they take 1 they would take all of them if there was more than 1 at his home.
Would it be a quick process just to check his hard drive or kept until court if he is the one arrested?
Does anyone know?
i believe that WCSO still has the computers from michelle and jason young's house that they took 2 yrs ago. they also have an external hard drive of a friend of theirs who lived in another state. SWs in feb were for jason's work laptops. i'm not sure whether he just showed the investigators or whether they confiscated it.

i would assume that the investigators on nancy's case would take
all of nancy & brad's computers, at home and at work.

they would keep them until they were satisifed that they had examined all the files including those that had been deleted.

CyberPro
07-31-2008, 12:07 AM
it is obvious why he and brad are friends --- the got burned by the same woman , heather metour (a non-hyphenated name; are you happy now, scott??!).

:clap::clap::clap::woohoo:

Saint,

I LOVE that one, you nailed it!

CyberPro

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:08 AM
Oh really? Well it really would be nice if someone had a sense
of humor like Kurt Schlatzburger wouldn't it?

what does that mean? hello? hello?:woohoo:

CARYISHOME
07-31-2008, 12:11 AM
Just so I'll know.

Fully admitting that I have figured out that I am the
champion of lost causes, still, doesn't it seem a little
weird to

1 care how he is leaning
2 care how someone else is leaning
3 Criticize someone about the flowers
3 criticize someone for not spending time with family
then when he does it's too much time
4 different people say he gave varying amounts of money and all of them were the wrong amounts
5 he shouldn't have asked her to return the laptop cover
6 he gets criticized for not going to parties and obviously
he did but what? not enough or too late?
7 was he supposed to be happy about his child's nose?
and since he wasn't doesn't that say something?
8 why in the hell can't he have a hobby?
9 PEOPLE GO ON TRIPS!
10 Did this guy ever do anything right?

Jesus Christ

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Well, if my husband showed up dead tomorrow there would likely be limitless things that I could be criticized for. I could easily be viewed as a thoughtless, non-caring wife by those who know nothing of our relationship and the struggles we went through previously. People just live their lives the best they know how and then, bam, sh-- happens.

No doubt Brad can't do anything right these days - he is clearly in the bullseye. I appreciate your comments and thanks for expressing a different point of view. Frankly, I don't think he is such a huge monster as he is being portrayed. Things just got way out of hand and terribly out of control...

momto3kids
07-31-2008, 12:11 AM
It is hard for me to tell, since the pics, even in the larger size are kind of small, but I think the "arm on the leg" is misleading. It looks to me like that is HIS arm on his leg, and the she has her arm bent and forearm across her own lap.

I might be wrong, but that is the way it looks to me.

CyberPro

#3 picture is the one someone was talking about where the girl in the striped top has her arm over BC's leg. Someone earlier thought she might be BC's Europe fling...
A few of us think its the girl in red who it might be. I don't think she has her arm on him either...you are correct.

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:12 AM
B&B...would you feel better to know BC has been out doing yard work, bagging the yard waste, doing the recycling, and trash out for trash day tomorrow. Not that is a good man if I must say so myself!!!

I can't believe you said that!

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:13 AM
what does that mean? hello? hello?:woohoo:


If you had read my earlier post you would know what that means? I'm reading other people's stuff!

Carrington
07-31-2008, 12:13 AM
B&B...would you feel better to know BC has been out doing yard work, bagging the yard waste, doing the recycling, and trash out for trash day tomorrow. Not that is a good man if I must say so myself!!!

What no lawn service?
:)

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:14 AM
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Well, if my husband showed up dead tomorrow there would likely be limitless things that I could be criticized for. I could easily be viewed as a thoughtless, non-caring wife by those who know nothing of our relationship and the struggles we went through previously. People just live their lives the best they know how and then, bam, sh-- happens.

No doubt Brad can't do anything right these days - he is clearly in the bullseye. I appreciate your comments and thanks for expressing a different point of view. Frankly, I don't think he is such a huge monster as he is being portrayed. Things just got way out of hand and terribly out of control...


Actually I meant doing things right before.

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:14 AM
What no lawn service?
:)

Oh my god

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:16 AM
Oh really? Well it really would be nice if someone had a sense
of humor like Kurt Schlatzburger wouldn't it?


reference is too obscure. move along.

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:17 AM
:clap::clap::clap::woohoo:

Saint,

I LOVE that one, you nailed it!

CyberPro


i spotted my typo when you made it so big.:rolleyes:

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:20 AM
If you had read my earlier post you would know what that means? I'm reading other people's stuff!
okay. you can take over my schedule and i'll read back the 13 threads that i've missed.

i'm trying to talk to these cary people, B&B. don't be so attention-seeking and let them talk about the case.

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:20 AM
reference is too obscure. move along.

Too obscure?????

And the leaning isn't obscure?

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:21 AM
okay. you can take over my schedule and i'll read back the 13 threads that i've missed.

i'm trying to talk to this cary people, B&B. don't be so attention-seeking and let them talk about the case.

I'm chopped liver over here?

I HAVE BEEN TO NORTH CAROLINA!!!

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:22 AM
is brad still staying at scott's house?

momto3kids
07-31-2008, 12:22 AM
Yep - something is not connecting for them, I think. They are trying but, somehow, it isn't a slam dunk. Something else is going on.

Just sayin...

I think they are trying hard, but they know something is just not looking right with this. I would rather them be absolutely sure no matter who it is.

Earlier I posted that it has got to be hard on BC....

If he is guilty wondering when the knock is coming to the door. Always looking over his shoulder, but this would serve him right.

If he is innocent how much worse can it get to be sitting between 4 walls, no wife, no kids, no work to go to at the moment, can't go anywhere without being noticed. What a horrible punishment if he is innocent!!

I can't imagine either way what the feeling would be like.

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:23 AM
okay. you can take over my schedule and i'll read back the 13 threads that i've missed.

i'm trying to talk to this cary people, B&B. don't be so attention-seeking and let them talk about the case.

I'm attention seeking??????

I have less than one post a day for a year!!!!

I GOT LOST IN RALEIGH FOR A LONG TIME!!!

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:23 AM
Too obscure?????

And the leaning isn't obscure?

we are sleuthing out brad's affairs. body language in photos is a good indication.

CyberPro
07-31-2008, 12:23 AM
Hmmm sounds like Lifetime Fitness is a beacon for the socially-inclined as well as a font for the sleuthiest. I'll be waiting for my invite! ;-D

Well SG, I dunno what to tell you. My wife & kids got me this for Father's day. We were members of the Y, but it was further away, and they felt that we would go more often if the place was closer and had longer hours. They have proven to be correct so far.

Socially inclined? Not me. If I saw you on the street and we happened to be passing each other, I might speak to you, especially if something funny or unusual happened, but again, I go do my workout in the late evenings usually, it is kind of like having your own private club then. There are a few folks around, but it is PACKED during a lot of the other times of the day. As far as social inclination goes, I have more in common with BC on that front, but I can also do the "never met a stranger" thing too, depends on the situation.

CyberPro

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:26 AM
we are sleuthing out brad's affairs. body language in photos are a good indication.

Oooooooooooooh right.

Like he might be smiling too much????

That would be an indicator of???

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:26 AM
i'd like to know how nancy knew* that heather m. had had sex w/ brad in the bedroom where bella was sleeping.

did brad admit it?
did heather m?
did bella mention it?
was there evidence in the bed?


(* it may or not be true)

did bella and/or katie see their father murder their mother and did they report to anyone?

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:26 AM
Well SG, I dunno what to tell you. My wife & kids got me this for Father's day. We were members of the Y, but it was further away, and they felt that we would go more often if the place was closer and had longer hours. They have proven to be correct so far.

Socially inclined? Not me. If I saw you on the street and we happened to be passing each other, I might speak to you, especially if something funny or unusual happened, but again, I go do my workout in the late evenings usually, it is kind of like having your own private club then. There are a few folks around, but it is PACKED during a lot of the other times of the day. As far as social inclination goes, I have more in common with BC on that front, but I can also do the "never met a stranger" thing too, depends on the situation.

CyberPro

WEll how about if you were in France?????????????

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:27 AM
i'd like to know how nancy knew* that haehter m. Had had sex w/ brad in the bedroom where bella was sleeping.

Did brad admit it?
Did heather m?
Did bella mention it?
Was there evidence in the bed?


(* it may or not be true)

did bella and/or katie see their father murder their mother and did they report to anyone?


it doesn"t matter where they had sex or if he
was leaning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:28 AM
I'm attention seeking??????

I have less than one post a day for a year!!!!

I GOT LOST IN RALEIGH FOR A LONG TIME!!!

please don't kill your wife, B&B. i don't want to be compelled to follow your case. you would wear me out.

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:29 AM
could someone please medicate, B&B?

CARYISHOME
07-31-2008, 12:29 AM
Oooooooooooooh right.

Like he might be smiling too much????

That would be an indicator of???

Chill B&B. It's just talk - what we say doesn't really matter - it's all up to LE and the courts.

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:30 AM
what is the significance of the gym where brad worked out?
was he hitting on women there?

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:31 AM
They could have had sex all day long in a tree and it doesn't
matter and it doesn't prove anything. And I don't think that's obscure do you?

I think that person that was here earlier understands what I'm saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

momto3kids
07-31-2008, 12:31 AM
What no lawn service?
:)

He used to have it....

Seriously I do not know who does it. It is all lined up along the curb I hear ready for tomorrow.

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:31 AM
i'm worried about Bob&Bob.

CyberPro
07-31-2008, 12:31 AM
WEll how about if you were in France?????????????

If I went to France, it would be for business. When I travel on Business, which is frequently, but not usually international, I am there to work. I do not go out, except to dinner, and that is usually alone. I do not usually go visit any sites, unless I happen to be passing right by it anyway. I am there for work, and I keep my mind on the reason I am there.

I would not visit France for pleasure, I have no desire to go there, so, I would not be smiling.

CyberPro

OregonMommy
07-31-2008, 12:32 AM
Trying to catch up after 2 days of hard work.

When I saw that one picture in Europe, France I think it was?, I just shook my head...It's speculation on my part, I know, but, boy, it just didn't seem right according to my gut...And - I'm learning to trust my gut after all these years!


I agree - it was pretty obvious who the side dish was. I trust my gut too...and this happened last winter and she sought council in March, right? Hmmmmmmm.....well, I'm sure LE knows all about this, and perhaps this is part of the 3rd warrant...???

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:33 AM
They could have had sex all day long in a tree and it doesn't
matter and it doesn't prove anything. And I don't think that's obscure do you?

I think that person that was here earlier understands what I'm saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
having extramarital sex in front of child is significant as to character of the father and the inappropriateness of sexual behavior around a child.

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:33 AM
He used to have it....

Seriously I do not know who does it. It is all lined up along the curb I hear ready for tomorrow.


<-----knows what obscure is and that's obscure

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:34 AM
If I went to France, it would be for business. When I travel on Business, which is frequently, but not usually international, I am there to work. I do not go out, except to dinner, and that is usually alone. I do not usually go visit any sites, unless I happen to be passing right by it anyway. I am there for work, and I keep my mind on the reason I am there.

I would not visit France for pleasure, I have no desire to go there, so, I would not be smiling.

CyberPro

Why don't you like France?

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:35 AM
If I went to France, it would be for business. When I travel on Business, which is frequently, but not usually international, I am there to work. I do not go out, except to dinner, and that is usually alone. I do not usually go visit any sites, unless I happen to be passing right by it anyway. I am there for work, and I keep my mind on the reason I am there.

I would not visit France for pleasure, I have no desire to go there, so, I would not be smiling.

CyberPro

:floorlaugh:

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:37 AM
He used to have it....

Seriously I do not know who does it. It is all lined up along the curb I hear ready for tomorrow.

Are you talking about his grass clippings?

OregonMommy
07-31-2008, 12:38 AM
Oh dear - I can't remember where I saw it now, I'll have to search. The one I am thinking of is one where there was a picture of a woman with a mountain as the backdrop. Very nice picture. It may look perfectly innocent (and could be, I suppose) but it just bugged me when I saw it.

Yes, that is the one I noticed too. It looked like a pose for your lover. This same woman was next to Brad in several of the group pics too.

CyberPro
07-31-2008, 12:38 AM
what is the significance of the gym where brad worked out?
was he hitting on women there?

I did not know it previously, but there have been several reasons that the workout location has been mentioned over several non-sequential postings.

1. The cost of the membership. ($130/month, maybe subsidized or discounted due to Cisco employment. They normally have a very high fee to begin the membership, like over $1000, but I joined when that fee was waived. The membership is month to month, no contract)

2. There was some mention of the SW possibly being for his locker there. You are not assigned a locker there, you use one while you are there, then you leave it empty.

3. Supposedly both BC and NC used the place for workouts. I dunno, I have not been there long, and usually go when there are less than 20 folks using the place, you would really need to see it to appreciate HOW empty it is with less than 100 folks there. Place is HUGE.

4. I suppose it is possible that it was a meeting place for BC, but I have heard nothing to suggest that.

CyberPro

momto3kids
07-31-2008, 12:38 AM
Are you talking about his grass clippings?


Plus the other items I mentioned.

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:41 AM
thanks, CyberPro

The Saint
07-31-2008, 12:42 AM
i was under the impression that Cisco furnished brad with his BMW ( a leased car).
in his rebuttal aff, he made it sound like he owned it.

Bob&Bob
07-31-2008, 12:44 AM
Somebody is videoing him mowing the lawn?

CARYISHOME
07-31-2008, 12:47 AM
i was under the impression that Cisco furnished brad with his BMW ( a leased car).
in his rebuttal aff, he made it sound like he owned it.

I don't know for sure, but it doesn't seem right they would provide him with a car. My neighbor works for Cisco and I am pretty sure he doesn't have a car. Just seems excessive to me - but, then again, I work for the state...we definately don't have cars.

CARYISHOME
07-31-2008, 12:53 AM
Problem is we have very little to go on so we end up speculating about virtually everything...we need a break in this case.

momto3kids
07-31-2008, 12:53 AM
i was under the impression that Cisco furnished brad with his BMW ( a leased car).
in his rebuttal aff, he made it sound like he owned it.
Quite awhile ago I brought up that only 1 car was listed in their tax records. Many thought it was maybe because BC got a vehicle from Cisco. Now we are seeing in his statement he owns the vehicles. I still do not know why they only have 1 vehicle per year listed. :waitasec:

CARYISHOME
07-31-2008, 12:58 AM
[QUOTE=momto3kids;2435711]Quite awhile ago I brought up that only 1 car was listed in their tax records. Many thought it was maybe because BC got a vehicle from Cisco. Now we are seeing in his statement he owns the vehicles. I still do not know why they only have 1 vehicle per year listed. :waitasec:[/QUOTE

Just wondering because i have not looked at the tax records. Could it be a timing difference? Maybe they purchased one of the vehicles AFTER the tax records were posted? Which vehicle is listed on the tax records?

Sorry if this has already been discussed.

mollymalone
07-31-2008, 02:10 AM
Apologies if this was posted before.


http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1160045.html
Cary police investigating the death of Nancy Cooper will be allowed to keep secret the items seized from her home and from her husband's workplace.

In addition to searching Bradley Cooper's workplace, police have obtained a court order requiring him to submit saliva or blood samples to help police obtain his DNA profile.

maconrich
07-31-2008, 04:51 AM
I GOT LOST IN RALEIGH FOR A LONG TIME!!!

You've made a post I can actually relate to!! I found it quite easy to get lost in Raleigh...several times!! ;)


Now with the photos, not saying anything other than the girl in the mountain scene photo was flirting in a huge way with whoever took the photo. Her body language, expression and about everything else were just classic. No way to know if he was flirting back, other than the fact she was in several of the pictures, but if I had to match up who might have been involved with who, she'd be the one without question.

raisincharlie
07-31-2008, 07:40 AM
Apologies if this was posted before.


http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1160045.html
Cary police investigating the death of Nancy Cooper will be allowed to keep secret the items seized from her home and from her husband's workplace.

In addition to searching Bradley Cooper's workplace, police have obtained a court order requiring him to submit saliva or blood samples to help police obtain his DNA profile.

I do wish the N & O reporters would be a little clearer in their writings. The above is very misleading. Seems to me the DNA sample from Brad was taken quite some time ago - woke him up like 3 in the morning or something. Court order to take those samples is typically done on a Non Testimonial Order (NTO). If an NTO was issued - it appears it has also been sealed. Also these types of examinations are typically done in a somewhat secure location.


ETA - Line 150 of Brad's affidavit.

I recall a statement in Brad's affidavit about "opening his body to the police" which implies a whole lot more than just a swab or blood draw for DNA. Hmmm.


WRAL reports it was included in the search warrant for the home - not sure how they know since the warrant is sealed but it was reported this way on 16 July. Also - DogWood, you asked when Brad lawyered up - the time frame can be narrowed somewhat - on July 16th Brad's lawyer did issue a statement according to this report initially published 16 July:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3214017/

Brad Cooper had no comment, but his attorneys, Howard Kurtz and Seth Blum, released a statement Wednesday afternoon saying he would not answer questions from the media but would continue cooperating with police.

wirehair
07-31-2008, 07:41 AM
Good morning raisin charlie. Don't you sleep?

raisincharlie
07-31-2008, 07:47 AM
Good morning raisin charlie. Don't you sleep?

Not much ! :crazy:

Morning to you as well Wirehair !

warrkat
07-31-2008, 07:54 AM
If a car is leased, does it show up on the tax records? If already answered, sorry. I'm trying to catch up.

raisincharlie
07-31-2008, 08:00 AM
If a car is leased, does it show up on the tax records? If already answered, sorry. I'm trying to catch up.

There has been some discussion of that and I believe the consensus was that it would not show up on the tax records of the individual to whom it was leased to.

I'm not sure the BMW in question is leased however - in Brad's affidavit he claims he bought it. So not at all sure why it is not showing up in the tax records for either Brad or Nancy.

warrkat
07-31-2008, 08:08 AM
There has been some discussion of that and I believe the consensus was that it would not show up on the tax records of the individual to whom it was leased to.

I'm not sure the BMW in question is leased however - in Brad's affidavit he claims he bought it. So not at all sure why it is not showing up in the tax records for either Brad or Nancy.

It might depend on when he bought it. I bought my car in March, and didn't have to pay the tax until the next January or February.

raisincharlie
07-31-2008, 08:15 AM
It might depend on when he bought it. I bought my car in March, and didn't have to pay the tax until the next January or February.

That could well be since we don't know when the vehicle was obtained. If you are right and Brad is correct, the vehicle could be a very recent addition to their collection of items. Now wouldn't that be a kick in the pants - $45k in debt but he buys a new fancy BMW SUv with all the options...:crazy:

snowshuze
07-31-2008, 09:10 AM
That could well be since we don't know when the vehicle was obtained. If you are right and Brad is correct, the vehicle could be a very recent addition to their collection of items. Now wouldn't that be a kick in the pants - $45k in debt but he buys a new fancy BMW SUv with all the options...:crazy:
Uh huh. The guy in charge of the "budget".

Topsail Girl
07-31-2008, 09:13 AM
And Then There Were Two

By Amanda Lamb
Posted: Jul. 30 4:36 p.m.
The comparisons between Nancy Cooper and Michelle Young started the first week Cooper's body was found. It was a natural leap- two young mothers killed in the prime of their lives when they had so much to look forward to, so much to offer the world. They were attractive, edcuated, and lived in nice neighborhoods that most people would classify as the epitome of the American suburban dream.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/blogpost/3305166/

I posted this in the media thread as well. My apologies if this is a duplicate.

IMHO63
07-31-2008, 09:22 AM
i was under the impression that Cisco furnished brad with his BMW ( a leased car).
in his rebuttal aff, he made it sound like he owned it.

Cisco does not typically offer company cars. And, if they did it would not be an expensive SUV. They are trying to be more of green company. If you drive a hybrid you can park closer to the building.

runnermomof5
07-31-2008, 09:34 AM
Someone posted that their sister went thru a divorce and the spouse had stopped training abruptly and how this can affect a person who is used to those endorphins and how suddenly stopping can make them cranky! ( run on sentence) .
Yep, this is true. A person training for an event such as an Ironman would be running, biking, swimming many miles and putting in many hours of training. To have to give that up would make that person a bit cranky. Endorphins are like a natural high that one experiences while exercising. Take that away, plus the fact that BC and NC had not had marital relations in over 2 years, and BC could have been one very difficult hubby to live with. IMO.

d99gr81
07-31-2008, 09:36 AM
Hi! I think if you look at the tentative divorce papers, there is a section about changing the titles giving each party clear title to one of the vehicles.

Look in the legal documents thread for the Separation Agreement and Property Settlement (Post #3). The information is on pages 9 and 10 of the document.


OK first those seperation agreement means nothing for it was not signed, that could easily be her first proposel. My ex wife who was a horrible wife and unfaithful, her first proposel from her Lawyer had me seeing my boys Tuesdays and Thursdays from 4-8 and every other saturday and me paying a ton of money... and shes they one who did the horrible things. I had loads of proof to that as well. In the end...the final agreement... I have 50/50 physical custody of my boys...I owe no child support be cause I have them 7 days on 7 days off. I owe her ZERO in alimony... and she had to buy my out of the house...10k. So you can see...1 it doesnt matter if NC or BC was worse you can still have a crazy proposel. When I first saw that I told my EX she was crazy and why would she think that I would ever agree to that...she said her lawyer told her it was a starting point.... So I told her where to stick that starting point :) In the end I won...if you call all that a win. The boys lose because they nor I did a thing to be apart but I have them and thats all the matters and we are better off for it.

That could easily be a first proposel. Means nothing in the scheme of things because it was not signed.

d99gr81
07-31-2008, 09:39 AM
How about Google searches? Is that stored?

Cache is easily cleared. tools> Internet options> Delete files button > history

I set mine to clear automatically anyway.

d99gr81
07-31-2008, 09:42 AM
I don't know if I've seen any original copies of the warrants posted anywhere, so it's unclear when they were granted/served.

However, while watching the WTVD video clip (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6294423), I believe they show scans of at least one of the new ones (around 2:10 mark), and it appears dated July 25th (last Friday). I also think I read somewhere the statement that the office search was conducted during "off hours".

I therefore wouldn't be surprised if the office warrant was obtained Friday, and the search performed late Friday night, or at some point over this past weekend (possibly in the middle of the night over the weekend) - to avoid disruption with other employees, etc.

Cisco does not have OFF hours

d99gr81
07-31-2008, 09:45 AM
I was thinking on the way home mostly because I'm obsessed.

What if BC's lawyer told him to take NC off the credit cards, take her name off the checking account and give her an allowance and that's why he did it. I mean how many times have we heard of people getting seperated/divorced and one takes all the money out of the account or maxes out the credit cards.

just a thought

Lawyer or a Counselor absolutely can and will say something like that... I can assure you I wish I had.... My ex wife syphoned 18k while I thought she was going to as she said "get help for her problems" when our counselor toldher she needed help. Instead she lied again...said she was getting that help but was really going to a lawyer and and stealing my money.

d99gr81
07-31-2008, 09:46 AM
Reabie - LE has to have probable cause to get a warrant. Warrants are not drawn to exclude anything only to search for something. Reasonable probable cause for a judge is a reason why LE thinks evidence of the crime will be found at the location listed. LeE's job is not to prove someone did not do something.

Ruling someone out is probable cause.

KTaylorsc
07-31-2008, 09:56 AM
Cache is easily cleared. tools> Internet options> Delete files button > history

I set mine to clear automatically anyway.

This may have allready been answered but would it be retrievable if the cache had been cleared?

KTaylorsc
07-31-2008, 09:58 AM
Lawyer or a Counselor absolutely can and will say something like that... I can assure you I wish I had.... My ex wife syphoned 18k while I thought she was going to as she said "get help for her problems" when our counselor toldher she needed help. Instead she lied again...said she was getting that help but was really going to a lawyer and and stealing my money.

morning:)

that's why I thought about that, because I knew you had mentioned the 18k

raisincharlie
07-31-2008, 10:02 AM
Ruling someone out is probable cause.


Right :crazy:

d99gr81
07-31-2008, 10:03 AM
Me too but it aint gonna happen ! I really have no idea at all but just a gut feeling is it was somewhere and someone we know nothing of of - again just a gut feeling.

Glad you are here !

Thats my thinking. The reason I would think they dont say where is because its somewhere or someone other than BC and they dont want it known.

2Daughters1Dog
07-31-2008, 10:04 AM
what if he poisoned her? He could have found some really-slow acting poison, given it to her over time. Then while she's running her pumping heart accelerates it through her system. Then she has a brain aneurysm, keels over dead, and it looks like natural causes. I bet the LE is waiting for advanced toxicology reports.

KTaylorsc
07-31-2008, 10:06 AM
what if he poisoned her? He could have found some really-slow acting poison, given it to her over time. Then while she's running her pumping heart accelerates it through her system. Then she has a brain aneurysm, keels over dead, and it looks like natural causes. I bet the LE is waiting for advanced toxicology reports.

they wouldn't have ruled her death a homicide so quickly if they had to go through all that.

I'm thinking it was something obvious to rule her death a homicide so quickly

KTaylorsc
07-31-2008, 10:10 AM
actually I thought I saw/heard something the other day about her being attacked

d99gr81
07-31-2008, 10:10 AM
exactly. that is why i think it happened at a doctor's office
and the box was checked for "pedicure" or that it was part of a package of a day of beauty at a salon or spa.

i think a pedicure costs about $25 w/o tips.

how about all the money that brad spent getting ready for his Ironman events?
clothes
supplements and energy drinks
shoes
bike
equipment
travel
hotels
entrance fees


just to name a few

Seems like they are at least for something productive... unlike 8k dollar paintings, 1200 dollar purses, 200 dollar jeans, and 200 pedicures...

Sewing_Buddy
07-31-2008, 10:15 AM
what if he poisoned her? He could have found some really-slow acting poison, given it to her over time. Then while she's running her pumping heart accelerates it through her system. Then she has a brain aneurysm, keels over dead, and it looks like natural causes. I bet the LE is waiting for advanced toxicology reports.

If that were true, his reaction when her friend stopped by on Saturday morning would have been one of surprise....which wasn't the case.
IMO

2Daughters1Dog
07-31-2008, 10:21 AM
If that were true, his reaction when her friend stopped by on Saturday morning would have been one of surprise....which wasn't the case.
IMO

how so?

If you're slowly posioning someone, you'd have no idea when it would finally work/cause death.

And is the friend in question the same crazy one with the insane affidavit allegations? Adams?

stillblv
07-31-2008, 10:31 AM
Seems like they are at least for something productive... unlike 8k dollar paintings, 1200 dollar purses, 200 dollar jeans, and 200 pedicures...

Depends on your perspective....LOL

raisincharlie
07-31-2008, 10:34 AM
Can anyone tell me what color the 2008 license plate for NC is ?

d99gr81
07-31-2008, 10:35 AM
Just so I'll know.

Fully admitting that I have figured out that I am the
champion of lost causes, still, doesn't it seem a little
weird to

1 care how he is leaning
2 care how someone else is leaning
3 Criticize someone about the flowers
3 criticize someone for not spending time with family
then when he does it's too much time
4 different people say he gave varying amounts of money and all of them were the wrong amounts
5 he shouldn't have asked her to return the laptop cover
6 he gets criticized for not going to parties and obviously
he did but what? not enough or too late?
7 was he supposed to be happy about his child's nose?
and since he wasn't doesn't that say something?
8 why in the hell can't he have a hobby?
9 PEOPLE GO ON TRIPS!
10 Did this guy ever do anything right?

Jesus Christ

I am right there with you Bob, and I have been since day one, at least with an open mind.

d99gr81
07-31-2008, 10:36 AM
no.
11. he killed his wife.

gosh, bob&bob. you are very high maintenance.

He did? For sure? I must have missed the arrest, Trial and execution.

jumpstreet
07-31-2008, 10:38 AM
Cisco does not have OFF hours

No doubt. :). I took the statement in the article to imply that the search wasn't done in the middle of the "normal work day". (Which would make sense).

raisincharlie
07-31-2008, 10:41 AM
Just so I'll know.

<snip>

4 different people say he gave varying amounts of money and all of them were the wrong amounts

<snip>




How do you know the amounts were wrong - because Brad says so ?

Not good enough. It is possible the amounts did vary. It is also possible Nancy may have told one friend one week the amount was this and someone else heard a different week amount ?

If you are going to make the claim - provide the reality please.

d99gr81
07-31-2008, 10:42 AM
i was under the impression that Cisco furnished brad with his BMW ( a leased car).
in his rebuttal aff, he made it sound like he owned it.

Negative, its his own car.

KTaylorsc
07-31-2008, 10:45 AM
if they have the e-mails where BC e-mailed NC and GR and NC agreed that BC gave her 300 dollars in cash there's no reason NOT to believe BC

imo