Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #14

[christine2448]

Please continue GENERAL discussions here. Look around Nancy has her own forum (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=165), there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.


Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.


Newbies.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/websleuths.jpg



I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

I advise everyone to read the RULES of WS, Long (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66869)and Short Version (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66872).

[carolinalady]

Originally Posted by citygirl
I am a member, read a lot to stay abreast of things, have little to say as all the posters here are so on top of things, but will add my two cents.

My question is, how many spouses who are having marital problems are up and murdered by someone else?

Nary a one, that I can think of.

To stay with your question: Guilt-he never called police to report her missing. Innocence-I'm coming up blank.

JMHO

I agree that the spouse is the usual suspect. However, in regards to not calling the police. Perhaps he was under the impression, as many on this board were, that you had to wait 24 hrs to report a missing adult. He says he went looking for her and JA's affidavit seems to confirm that is what he told her. When he returned from looking for her, the cops had already been called and were at his house.

As I've said lots of times, he's got a lot of stuff that can be confirmed or refuted in those affidavits/rebuttal. IF he is lying in those, he's given LE plenty of ammo.

[outside_of_apex]

As far as how close are the houses, here's the 'hood (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.745224,-78.756051&spn=0.014734,0.027637&z=15&layer=c&cbll=35.737882,-78.757685&panoid=O_egtSSZVOcM5YiUOpmO8g&cbp=1,68.1799999999999,,0,5).

Note you can see both beamers in the driveway.

[WSTarheel]

Reddress58 wrote:
<<I see there are a lot of members logged on right now...probably catching up on previous threads. Let's wait and see who else is interested and plan a meet-up.>>

I live very close and would love to meet you all. Please count me in if it's not too late.

[Just the Fax]

As far as how close are the houses, here's the 'hood (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.745224,-78.756051&spn=0.014734,0.027637&z=15&layer=c&cbll=35.737882,-78.757685&panoid=O_egtSSZVOcM5YiUOpmO8g&cbp=1,68.1799999999999,,0,5).

Note you can see both beamers in the driveway.


Google 'street view' is way cool

[Cheyenne130]

Google 'street view' is way cool

Just so long as you realize that it is not real time. If you look at it now, it should be dark.

[reddress58]

Anyone else interested in a meet-up at Java Jive? I've jotted down everyone so far who has shown interest and will PM you soon.

[outside_of_apex]

Just so long as you realize that it is not real time. If you look at it now, it should be dark.

Hmmm, according to here (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1063/536197473_018eaa8180.jpg?v=0) it's 4:20pm at the intersection of Haight & Ashbury in San Francisco. What time is it at your place :crazy:

[reddress58]

Hmmm, according to here (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1063/536197473_018eaa8180.jpg?v=0) it's 4:20pm at the intersection of Haight & Ashbury in San Francisco. What time is it at your place :crazy:
10:18PM when you made your post. Where are you? Mars? LOL

[CARYISHOME]

Anyone else interested in a meet-up at Java Jive? I've jotted down everyone so far who has shown interest and will PM you soon.


I'm interested.

[outside_of_apex]

10:18PM when you made your post. Where are you? Mars? LOL

What's that whooshing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_%28cannabis_culture%29) sound :waitasec:

[EntreNous]

I agree that the spouse is the usual suspect. However, in regards to not calling the police. Perhaps he was under the impression, as many on this board were, that you had to wait 24 hrs to report a missing adult. He says he went looking for her and JA's affidavit seems to confirm that is what he told her. When he returned from looking for her, the cops had already been called and were at his house.

As I've said lots of times, he's got a lot of stuff that can be confirmed or refuted in those affidavits/rebuttal. IF he is lying in those, he's given LE plenty of ammo.
I was on my way home from work once and got stuck on the interstate because a small plane had made a crash landing a mile ahead of me. Sat there for 4 hours. This was before cell phones.

When I finally made it home my husband had called everyone under the sun and the ER looking for me. I spent the rest of the evening calling 20 people back to apologize for worrying them.
I too would be calling the police in addition to local emergency rooms, her girlfriends, the neighbors, etc.

Whether she'd been missing less than 24 hrs. or not the police could have told him if she'd been hit by a car or involved in something else that they'd possibly been called out on. The police are not just for missing people reports.

My BIL is a cop, a "first responder". If there's an injury or illness related 911 call, the police show up first to secure the area for the paramedics. Calling the police would have been the logical thing to do.

[Star12]

Anyone else interested in a meet-up at Java Jive? I've jotted down everyone so far who has shown interest and will PM you soon.

I sent a PM, but add my name to the list. Just need to know when.

[DogWood]

As far as how close are the houses, here's the 'hood (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.745224,-78.756051&spn=0.014734,0.027637&z=15&layer=c&cbll=35.737882,-78.757685&panoid=O_egtSSZVOcM5YiUOpmO8g&cbp=1,68.1799999999999,,0,5).

Note you can see both beamers in the driveway.

Thanks!

I've been talking to "server too busy" for the last couple of hours. Just to let you know, we did have a lovely conversation. lol

So did y'all figure out why there are not any stickers in the SUV's license plates while I was talking to the 'server'?

[SleuthyGal]

Hmmm, according to here (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1063/536197473_018eaa8180.jpg?v=0) it's 4:20pm at the intersection of Haight & Ashbury in San Francisco. What time is it at your place :crazy:

Yes but on Haight/Ashbury it's always around 1970! I used to live about a mile from there.

[EntreNous]

Well, that's a creepy feature. I just found my own house. EEk!

[The Saint]

As far as how close are the houses, here's the 'hood (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.745224,-78.756051&spn=0.014734,0.027637&z=15&layer=c&cbll=35.737882,-78.757685&panoid=O_egtSSZVOcM5YiUOpmO8g&cbp=1,68.1799999999999,,0,5).

Note you can see both beamers in the driveway.

thank you for this link. it helps to understand the close proximity of their neighbors.

[The Saint]

I was on my way home from work once and got stuck on the interstate because a small plane had made a crash landing a mile ahead of me. Sat there for 4 hours. This was before cell phones.

When I finally made it home my husband had called everyone under the sun and the ER looking for me. I spent the rest of the evening calling 20 people back to apologize for worrying them.
I too would be calling the police in addition to local emergency rooms, her girlfriends, the neighbors, etc.

Whether she'd been missing less than 24 hrs. or not the police could have told him if she'd been hit by a car or involved in something else that they'd possibly been called out on. The police are not just for missing people reports.

My BIL is a cop, a "first responder". If there's an injury or illness related 911 call, the police show up first to secure the area for the paramedics. Calling the police would have been the logical thing to do.

... unless you had just murdered your wife, then it would be the last thing you wanted to do.

[momto3kids]

Now that the SW won't be opened I guess it will have to be small talk until the LE makes the next move.:confused:

[The Saint]

are there any shops or homes that would have security video that would have captured nancy is she had truly been running along that route? or her murderer spiriting her body away?

[The Saint]

which is the Harris Teeter that brad went to? let's look at it on google maps.

[raisincharlie]

Now that the SW won't be opened I guess it will have to be small talk until the LE makes the next move.:confused:

Well lets have some fun with that. Since you are in the area - are there any of those self storage facilities very close to the Lochmere neighborhood ?

[EntreNous]

... unless you had just murdered your wife, then it would be the last thing you wanted to do.
Exactly.

[momto3kids]

Well lets have some fun with that. Since you are in the area - are there any of those self storage facilities very close to the Lochmere neighborhood ?

The only 1 ones I can think of are on ten-ten just before they cross over US1.

[raisincharlie]

The only 1 ones I can think of are on ten-ten just before they cross over US1.

Let me go look at a map - I have no idea where that might be in relation to the neighborhood. Thanks.

[momto3kids]

Since BC gave his affidavit we have focused on the times he gave and the possible scenerio's. I really think we need to put scenerio's together for a 4 am purchase and not the time BC told.

[wirehair]

The only 1 ones I can think of are on ten-ten just before they cross over US1.

There is another storage facility located behind the convenience store at the corner of 1010 and Holly Springs Road.

[momto3kids]

There is another storage facility located behind the convenience store at the corner of 1010 and Holly Springs Road.

Yes, there are some there. I missed the reason you are looking into these.

[reddress58]

The only 1 ones I can think of are on ten-ten just before they cross over US1.
No. There are two closer...A new one right on piney plains before you get to the BJ's shopping center...and one on the corner of 1010 and Holly Springs.

[wirehair]

What is the significance of the storage facility? I guess LE has checked with owners and such if they have cause. I would think that murder in the neighborhood would be cause. Was SH kinda heading up the search on Monday morning?

[raisincharlie]

What is the significance of the storage facility? I guess LE has checked with owners and such if they have cause. I would think that murder in the neighborhood would be cause. Was SH kinda heading up the search on Monday morning?

Wirehair - I'm just thinking about undisclosed locations. Puzzling on that search warrant is all.

[The Saint]

if you want to check out the street views of cisco and harris teeter on google maps.

here are the addresses:

Harris Teeter
2082 Kildaire Farm Rd
Cary, NC


Cisco Systems
7025 Kit Creek Rd.
Research Triangle Park, NC

[The Saint]

it takes 4 minutes to get from the cooper house to the grocery store

[wirehair]

Also I wanted to touch on something earlier but I was trying to catch up on everthing that I missed while I was at dog class. BC's bank records could very easily show that he withdrew $300 every week. He probably kept most of it for himself. That might have explaine the difference of amounts that the friends have indicated. She probably told him the items that she needed each week and he handed out what he thought would cover those item. He had to have lunch money, refreshment money at the club, or just walking around money. He might have even been putting it back to save for after the separation.

[reddress58]

Since BC gave his affidavit we have focused on the times he gave and the possible scenerio's. I really think we need to put scenerio's together for a 4 am purchase and not the time BC told.
NC was really angry about him cutting out her $300 when he found out about her painting for $$. That seemed to come out during a long conversation she had Friday night at the party. She could have been out for bear when she finally went home at midnight. As she told another friend, they were in hate mode again. I can see that the war may have started shortly after midnight upon her arrival. If the 4am scenerio is correct, that would make more sense given an earlier fight. What I'd like to know is the condition he was in on Saturday. There is no way that man got a single second of sleep!! It would be a dead (no pun intended) give away with me. So...anyway. 4am bleach run...clean up the CS...do you think he went back after that for milk & juice?!! How many trips to HT? He mentioned two...did he do two and fudge the times?

[reddress58]

it takes 4 minutes to get from the cooper house to the grocery store
I disagree. Two looooonnnggg stop lights.

[raisincharlie]

NC was really angry about him cutting out her $300 when he found out about her painting for $$. That seemed to come out during a long conversation she had Friday night at the party. She could have been out for bear when she finally went home at midnight. As she told another friend, they were in hate mode again. I can see that the war may have started shortly after midnight upon her arrival. If the 4am scenerio is correct, that would make more sense given an earlier fight. What I'd like to know is the condition he was in on Saturday. There is no way that man got a single second of sleep!! It would be a dead (no pun intended) give away with me. So...anyway. 4am bleach run...clean up the CS...do you think he went back after that for milk & juice?!! How many trips to HT? He mentioned two...did he do two and fudge the times?

Well his time line of those events certainly indicate he is a very slow driver... :crazy:

[wirehair]

I think that it might be for SH's property or maybe a PDA device. I don't know if he had one but I would think so. I haven't heard it mentioned. I wonder if the dog walking person walked his dog over there every day. If so, how did he not dicover the body sooner. I remember him saying that he noticed the birds first. I looked for birds all day that Monday. When we came out onto Holly Springs road it was really raining that day. The birds wouldn't have been flying at that time.

[reddress58]

I disagree. Two looooonnnggg stop lights.
....unless it was 4AM!

[reddress58]

Well his time line of those events certainly indicate he is a very slow driver... :crazy:
OK, his time line is 6:15 for milk...home again and realizing no bleach(oops I mean detergent) Out again. On the way to 2nd HT trip receives phone call from the land line for juice. Makes purchase for juice & detergent at 6:40. That isn't being a slow driver!!!!

[raisincharlie]

I think that it might be for SH's property or maybe a PDA device. I don't know if he had one but I would think so. I haven't heard it mentioned. I wonder if the dog walking person walked his dog over there every day. If so, how did he not dicover the body sooner. I remember him saying that he noticed the birds first. I looked for birds all day that Monday. When we came out onto Holly Springs road it was really raining that day. The birds wouldn't have been flying at that time.

Isn't SH's place pretty close to Brad ? Sorry to keep asking questions - not local - just don't know.

[wirehair]

Not many slow drivers around here and I'm one of them. I practice Hypermiling a lot. You can't even take the time to sneeze when the light turns green for someone blowing their horn. I can really take my time then. As far as people noticing his car out at night. If I were out and met the car I would notice the signature front of a BMW. From the side I would probably just think it was a mid size SUV. It was kind of plain in color. I wonder if someone lives in the neighorhood were NC was found that also drive one just like it. He might have scouted that out thinking that if someone said they saw the vehicle he could come back in a day or two and say that someone in the neighborhood has one just like his.

[EntreNous]

are there any shops or homes that would have security video that would have captured nancy is she had truly been running along that route? or her murderer spiriting her body away?

I'm sure they've been checking that. That's exactly how a murder was solved here. Hubby drove her car to a shopping mall parking lot with a bicycle in the back. He left the car and drove the bicycle back to his home after reporting his wife took the car shopping and never returned.
The police were able to track him riding all the way back to his house across town via commercial security cameras. Busted!

[reddress58]

Isn't SH's place pretty close to Brad ? Sorry to keep asking questions - not local - just don't know.
I don't know where SH's place is...only HM's. If you give me SH's address I can tell you.

[raisincharlie]

OK, his time line is 6:15 for milk...home again and realizing no bleach(oops I mean detergent) Out again. On the way to 2nd HT trip receives phone call from the land line for juice. Makes purchase for juice & detergent at 6:40. That isn't being a slow driver!!!!


He goes out first time at 615 to buy milk. Returns home and he leaves house at 630 (affidavit) - Nancy calls at 640 - at 645 he makes his purchases. Would it take 10 to 12 minutes to get from the house to Harris teeter ?

See - the first trip took him 15 minutes or less to get there, purchase milk and return home. The second trip it takes him 15 minutes before he makes a purchase...according to his time line.

[raisincharlie]

I don't know where SH's place is...only HM's. If you give me SH's address I can tell you.

I don't have an address for SH - can't help you there. But for some reason I thought it was close - he went there while LE was searching his house. Dunno

[reddress58]

Not many slow drivers around here and I'm one of them. I practice Hypermiling a lot. You can't even take the time to sneeze when the light turns green for someone blowing their horn. I can really take my time then. As far as people noticing his car out at night. If I were out and met the car I would notice the signature front of a BMW. From the side I would probably just think it was a mid size SUV. It was kind of plain in color. I wonder if someone lives in the neighorhood were NC was found that also drive one just like it. He might have scouted that out thinking that if someone said they saw the vehicle he could come back in a day or two and say that someone in the neighborhood has one just like his.
Oh gosh! We have a huge joke in our family about Cary stoplights. When my ex and I used to come home from downtown Raleigh on any given night of the week - including weekends - the stoplights would be blinking at 10 oclock with nary a soul on the roadways. It is NOT unusual for someone to go out in the black of night in Cary and not be discovered. This is a FAMILY community!

[raisincharlie]

Oh gosh! We have a huge joke in our family about Cary stoplights. When my ex and I used to come home from downtown Raleigh on any given night of the week - including weekends - the stoplights would be blinking at 10 oclock with nary a soul on the roadways. It is NOT unusual for someone to go out in the black of night in Cary and not be discovered. This is a FAMILY community!

Can't be - according to Brad Nancy was out late all the time - sometimes til 2 am even:crazy:

[reddress58]

He goes out first time at 615 to buy milk. Returns home and he leaves house at 630 (affidavit) - Nancy calls at 640 - at 645 he makes his purchases. Would it take 10 to 12 minutes to get from the house to Harris teeter ?

See - the first trip took him 15 minutes or less to get there, purchase milk and return home. The second trip it takes him 15 minutes before he makes a purchase...according to his time line.
I think his first purchase was at 6:15. (according to him) By the time he gets home and discovers no detergent and out again at 6:30 is reasonable. Doesn't say how long it took him to walk into the laundry room, pee or whatever he did after he returned.

[reddress58]

Can't be - according to Brad Nancy was out late all the time - sometimes til 2 am even:crazy:
I too used to stay out late. Only saw deer grazing on the way home. No lie!

[raisincharlie]

I think his first purchase was at 6:15. (according to him) By the time he gets home and discovers no detergent and out again at 6:30 is reasonable. Doesn't say how long it took him to walk into the laundry room, pee or whatever he did after he returned.

Line 166 - it is worded funny - he says he went out at 615 to buy milk. Brad speak I guess.

[The Saint]

I disagree. Two looooonnnggg stop lights.
i should have put a disclaimer that it was google maps calculation.

[The Saint]

what is the consensus - did he strangle her, knife her, or hit her?

[jumpstreet]

Wirehair - I'm just thinking about undisclosed locations. Puzzling on that search warrant is all.

I was actually wondering why they even allowed the SW for the work location to be disclosed? Why not seal that one too, just like they sealed the 3rd warrant? This way, the only thing the public would know at the moment is 2 additional warrants have been served (for unidentified locations/persons). As it stands, it's clear that LE has an interest in BC's workplace. Why not keep that sealed also?

[The Saint]

I think that it might be for SH's property or maybe a PDA device. I don't know if he had one but I would think so. I haven't heard it mentioned. I wonder if the dog walking person walked his dog over there every day. If so, how did he not dicover the body sooner. I remember him saying that he noticed the birds first. I looked for birds all day that Monday. When we came out onto Holly Springs road it was really raining that day. The birds wouldn't have been flying at that time.

would rain stop a hungry vulture?

[reddress58]

I don't know where SH's place is...only HM's. If you give me SH's address I can tell you.
Just checked. Scott lives VERY close.

[The Saint]

I was actually wondering why they even allowed the SW for the work location to be disclosed? Why not seal that one too, just like they sealed the 3rd warrant? This way, the only thing the public would know at the moment is 2 additional warrants have been served (for unidentified locations/persons). As it stands, it's clear that LE has an interest in BC's workplace. Why not keep that sealed also?
maybe to encourage cisco co-workers to come forward with information
that would help investigators.

[EntreNous]

I'm sure they've been checking that. That's exactly how a murder was solved here. Hubby drove her car to a shopping mall parking lot with a bicycle in the back. He left the car and drove the bicycle back to his home after reporting his wife took the car shopping and never returned.
The police were able to track him riding all the way back to his house across town via commercial security cameras. Busted!

Wow, I found a link to discussion about this case I mentioned here...

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57212

We've not heard anything since spring on this one but I think the police are watching Mr. Smith's behavior like a hawk. Miss Marcilene was love by so many here.

Anyway, yes, surely they're looking into those in NC's case.

[wirehair]

Seems like I read somewhere that it was off 1010 Road going towards Apex. I know that there are some developments in that area but I'm not sure that's where he lives.

[The Saint]

Can't be - according to Brad Nancy was out late all the time - sometimes til 2 am even:crazy:


according to her friends' affs, she HAD to go every night so she and the girls could eat dinner at a friend's house.

[raisincharlie]

Just checked. Scott lives VERY close.

So chances are if he lives close - someone would have noticed LE rolling into his house and tossing him out for a bit ? Wouldn't take long for that to get out - you all haven't heard anything ? The warrant was the 25th - it would have had to have been conducted within 48 hours of being issued.

[raisincharlie]

I was actually wondering why they even allowed the SW for the work location to be disclosed? Why not seal that one too, just like they sealed the 3rd warrant? This way, the only thing the public would know at the moment is 2 additional warrants have been served (for unidentified locations/persons). As it stands, it's clear that LE has an interest in BC's workplace. Why not keep that sealed also?

LE can be very tricky at times. Valid question no doubt.

[reddress58]

Line 166 - it is worded funny - he says he went out at 615 to buy milk. Brad speak I guess.
The point is...his time line is reasonable (well thought out) because there could be some lollygagging to and fro one side or the other. But Momof 3 wants us to imagine the 4am purchase and what may have transpired before and/or after a bleach run...assuming that happend. Just a "for instance" scenerio.

[reddress58]

So chances are if he lives close - someone would have noticed LE rolling into his house and tossing him out for a bit ? Wouldn't take long for that to get out - you all haven't heard anything ? The warrant was the 25th - it would have had to have been conducted within 48 hours of being issued.
Nothing that I've heard.

[CyberPro]

OK, his time line is 6:15 for milk...home again and realizing no bleach(oops I mean detergent) Out again. On the way to 2nd HT trip receives phone call from the land line for juice. Makes purchase for juice & detergent at 6:40. That isn't being a slow driver!!!!

I find it kind of funny that he is able to state with that much exactitude what the times of the grocery runs were. Anybody wanna get in that line with me?

I know we often see cop shows where the eternal question is "Where were you on the night of..." I mean, unless you DO have a receipt or some time record, or perhaps were TRYING to establish an alibi, why would you note the time with such precision? Did he syncronize his watch with the atomic clock before each grocery run?

Stop and think about it for a minute, even if things are JUST EXACTLY like he says, and NC was alive and made those calls, after you found out she was missing and all the chaos that consumed the next few days, would you be able to pinpoint an errand that you ran down to the minute? I would have been lucky to have gotten the time correct to within an hour.

You also have to think about how time passes when you are hopped up with adreneline, it can seem like 15 minutes have passed when it really has been 2 hours. It is hard to pay attention to details, and to recall events clearly.

Now, this came from a work of fiction, and might not be true, but a detective is confronting someone he susptects of having committed a crime, and the alibi is not very convincing. The suspect says that he knows his alibi does not sound convincing, and he wishes he had a better one, but the Detective says, "No, alibies, the real ones anyway, have more holes than a Salvation Army Suit. I start to worry when they look like suits of armor."

CyberPro

[wirehair]

I think that rain would weigh down the feathers and they couldn't fly as well. From the sounds of the "dog walker" they had already found what they were searching for.
If you have not been out on 1010 and Kildaire Farm Road and Holly Springs Road in the last 2 years after midnight; you need to check it out. There are vehicles everywhere. You could not sneak in a road or driveway and not get caught if you tried very hard. After 2 or so the traffic slows down and people wouldn't notice. Of course he would have to watch for deer. One day I'm going to ride through Lockmere late at night just to see how many lights are on. This time of year there are always teens coming home from dates, etc.

[reddress58]

Nite nite for me. It's friday here.

[raisincharlie]

The point is...his time line is reasonable (well thought out) because there could be some lollygagging to and fro one side or the other. But Momof 3 wants us to imagine the 4am purchase and what may have transpired before and/or after a bleach run...assuming that happend. Just a "for instance" scenerio.

I agree it is most likely a reasonable time frame - not consistent but reasonable.

[Wyn]

I disagree. Two looooonnnggg stop lights.


The two lights he would go through would be the one turning right onto Kildaire Farm Road, off of Lochmere Drive. With not much traffic there, turning right would be a breeze that time of morning. The next light would be the one to turn left into the shopping center. If there's no traffic, he'd get a green turn arrow pretty quickly.

[reddress58]

I find it kind of funny that he is able to state with that much exactitude what the times of the grocery runs were. Anybody wanna get in that line with me?

I know we often see cop shows where the eternal question is "Where were you on the night of..." I mean, unless you DO have a receipt or some time record, or perhaps were TRYING to establish an alibi, why would you note the time with such precision? Did he syncronize his watch with the atomic clock before each grocery run?

Stop and think about it for a minute, even if things are JUST EXACTLY like he says, and NC was alive and made those calls, after you found out she was missing and all the chaos that consumed the next few days, would you be able to pinpoint an errand that you ran down to the minute? I would have been lucky to have gotten the time correct to within an hour.

You also have to think about how time passes when you are hopped up with adreneline, it can seem like 15 minutes have passed when it really has been 2 hours. It is hard to pay attention to details, and to recall events clearly.

Now, this came from a work of fiction, and might not be true, but a detective is confronting someone he susptects of having committed a crime, and the alibi is not very convincing. The suspect says that he knows his alibi does not sound convincing, and he wishes he had a better one, but the Detective says, "No, alibies, the real ones anyway, have more holes than a Salvation Army Suit. I start to worry when they look like suits of armor."

CyberPro
Very, very true, Cyber. Good point!!

[raisincharlie]

I find it kind of funny that he is able to state with that much exactitude what the times of the grocery runs were. Anybody wanna get in that line with me?

I know we often see cop shows where the eternal question is "Where were you on the night of..." I mean, unless you DO have a receipt or some time record, or perhaps were TRYING to establish an alibi, why would you note the time with such precision? Did he syncronize his watch with the atomic clock before each grocery run?

Stop and think about it for a minute, even if things are JUST EXACTLY like he says, and NC was alive and made those calls, after you found out she was missing and all the chaos that consumed the next few days, would you be able to pinpoint an errand that you ran down to the minute? I would have been lucky to have gotten the time correct to within an hour.

You also have to think about how time passes when you are hopped up with adreneline, it can seem like 15 minutes have passed when it really has been 2 hours. It is hard to pay attention to details, and to recall events clearly.

Now, this came from a work of fiction, and might not be true, but a detective is confronting someone he susptects of having committed a crime, and the alibi is not very convincing. The suspect says that he knows his alibi does not sound convincing, and he wishes he had a better one, but the Detective says, "No, alibies, the real ones anyway, have more holes than a Salvation Army Suit. I start to worry when they look like suits of armor."

CyberPro

I'm in that line with you. A bit too specific, or convenient, one or the other.

[reddress58]

The two lights he would go through would be the one turning right onto Kildaire Farm Road, off of Lochmere Drive. With not much traffic there, turning right would be a breeze that time of morning. The next light would be the one to turn left into the shopping center. If there's no traffic, he'd get a green turn arrow pretty quickly.
Not necessarily. I've waited at 2 in the morning for those lights. Had to take a friend to HT 2 months ago to get a prescription in the middle of the night and WAITED at the stoplight. He told me I was nuts and I should turn. I'm such a "rule person" though and wouldn't do it.

[reddress58]

LE can be very tricky at times. Valid question no doubt.
I think they knew that word would get out because half of Cary works at Cisco. Could be diverting rumors.

[raisincharlie]

I think they knew that word would get out because half of Cary works at Cisco. Could be diverting rumors.

Or creating them...

[reddress58]

:bedtime:

[Wyn]

Not necessarily. I've waited at 2 in the morning for those lights. Had to take a friend to HT 2 months ago to get a prescription in the middle of the night and WAITED at the stoplight. He told me I was nuts and I should turn. I'm such a "rule person" though and wouldn't do it.

You'd only have to wait for the one at Harris Teeter. You'd be making a right on to Kildaire Farm Road. The pharmacy is open at HT in the middle of the night?? I didn't know that. I get my prescriptions at the CVS on the corner of Kildaire and Penny. Sometimes they close before I remember to go by!

[CyberPro]

I read in the previous thread about some of the locals wanting to get together for a meet-up. I am just now getting to read that thread, and I would like to be able to do that, I would find it interesting to meet some of my local sleuths....

Unfortunately, I am traveling a LOT lately, and am making my way back to Cary. I have some heavy road time for the next couple of months, so it is unlikely that I would be able to attend....

Maybe another time! Y'all have a cup of coffee for me.

CyberPro :smiliecup: :banghead:

[CyberPro]

You'd only have to wait for the one at Harris Teeter. You'd be making a right on to Kildaire Farm Road. The pharmacy is open at HT in the middle of the night?? I didn't know that. I get my prescriptions at the CVS on the corner of Kildaire and Penny. Sometimes they close before I remember to go by!

Wyn,

You are very brave to get your prescriptions filled at that CVS. I have taken several there, and have felt like the kids would get well on their own before they ever got around to filling them. Seems at times like you could die of old age before they fill the bottles... makes me want to check the expiration dates on the meds, just in case they have expired while I was waiting on them.

I sometimes wonder if they do that so you will busy yourself looking around the store while you are waiting, and find some other stuff to buy.

CyberPro

[fran]

I find it kind of funny that he is able to state with that much exactitude what the times of the grocery runs were. Anybody wanna get in that line with me?

I know we often see cop shows where the eternal question is "Where were you on the night of..." I mean, unless you DO have a receipt or some time record, or perhaps were TRYING to establish an alibi, why would you note the time with such precision? Did he syncronize his watch with the atomic clock before each grocery run?

Stop and think about it for a minute, even if things are JUST EXACTLY like he says, and NC was alive and made those calls, after you found out she was missing and all the chaos that consumed the next few days, would you be able to pinpoint an errand that you ran down to the minute? I would have been lucky to have gotten the time correct to within an hour.

You also have to think about how time passes when you are hopped up with adreneline, it can seem like 15 minutes have passed when it really has been 2 hours. It is hard to pay attention to details, and to recall events clearly.

Now, this came from a work of fiction, and might not be true, but a detective is confronting someone he susptects of having committed a crime, and the alibi is not very convincing. The suspect says that he knows his alibi does not sound convincing, and he wishes he had a better one, but the Detective says, "No, alibies, the real ones anyway, have more holes than a Salvation Army Suit. I start to worry when they look like suits of armor."

CyberPro

FWIW, I've been in a situation where I had to explain my previous 2 hours or so. I could not remember exact times. Ehhh...IF I'd known it was important at the time, I would have looked at the clock when I left.

LE will ask you the same questions 5 or 10 times, just different ways. You don't even realize they're doing it until you reflect back and realize what they'd done. Believe me, they KNOW when you're being honest, or when you're ehhh......fudging.

JMHO
fran

[fran]

I'm in that line with you. A bit too specific, or convenient, one or the other.

Brad's timeline from 6-7 that morning bothers me. I could swear I heard him tell Greta, in a telephone interview, that Nancy had left at 6 or 6:30. Unfortunately, Greta doesn't have transcripts available of the interview. I believe it was on July 14, Monday,......not sure, but fairly certain. He may have even said "6, 6:30, 7," or something like that.

NOW that has TURNED into 7. No mention of the other times now.

IMHO, LE needs to contact On The Record producers and get a copy of that short clip. It might be important on Brad's allegations of the morning timeline.

Another thing about Brad's description of the mornings timeline and description of just,.......things.

Perps OFTEN volunteer information before it is asked.

As we saw in the Laci Peterson case, they OFTEN give too much detail. I guess they think that makes it more believeable.

Like I said yesterday, "The devil is in the details."

JMHO
fran

[fran]

About the SW we don't know what it was for. IMO, it may have been for a computer.

I believe, in order to look through a computer, they have to have a separate SW, even IF it's found in the residence they already have a SW for.

Oh, and I read earlier today, or heard it, can't remember which, LE is using the affidavits for 'information' for their search for Nancy's killer.

Guess the consensus is, Brad is the subject of the investigation.

He is the first one they would look at, either because he's the husband or the last to see Nancy alive, or both......

They must either eliminate him and move on, or evidence will mount.

JMHO
fran

[fran]

Well, guess I'm talking to myself because it seems everyone else has gone to bed. :crazy: That's what I get for living on the left coast, studying a case on the right coast.

Anyway, one last thought, IF anyone cares.;)

About the reliability or truthfulness of the affidavits,.....most noteably Brad's. I know he said information could be verified.

Well, we KNOW that he lied about the Ironman workout. LOL, he even directed them to the address on the internet to check it out!:waitasec:

So, see,..........it isn't always as it seems.

Heck, I remember Scott Peterson's first interview after the outting of his g/f, Amber. Remember? The infamous Diane Sawyer interview?

You could almost hear the echos of laughter of disbelief from the Modesto police department as they watched this program. Laughter that Scott could really be that stupid, to say on that interview, " Yes, I told the police about the affair."

He said that on National tv, and.........guess what? It was a lie!

Yep, he's a real genious. Kinda like this guy. They're smarter than anyone else because they've graduated from college and have good jobs and Brad even has an MBA. Yep, smarter than anyone else.

Until they find out, they're not so smart after all.

JMHO
fran

[MoonFlwr]

Well, guess I'm talking to myself because it seems everyone else has gone to bed. :crazy: That's what I get for living on the left coast, studying a case on the right coast.

Anyway, one last thought, IF anyone cares.;)

About the reliability or truthfulness of the affidavits,.....most noteably Brad's. I know he said information could be verified.

Well, we KNOW that he lied about the Ironman workout. LOL, he even directed them to the address on the internet to check it out!:waitasec:

So, see,..........it isn't always as it seems.

Heck, I remember Scott Peterson's first interview after the outting of his g/f, Amber. Remember? The infamous Diane Sawyer interview?

You could almost hear the echos of laughter of disbelief from the Modesto police department as they watched this program. Laughter that Scott could really be that stupid, to say on that interview, " Yes, I told the police about the affair."

He said that on National tv, and.........guess what? It was a lie!

Yep, he's a real genious. Kinda like this guy. They're smarter than anyone else because they've graduated from college and have good jobs and Brad even has an MBA. Yep, smarter than anyone else.

Until they find out, they're not so smart after all.

JMHO
fran

Some of us on here are even more 'geographically challenged' than you are fran, so yeah, we care! ;)

[Sewing_Buddy]

I don't know where SH's place is...only HM's. If you give me SH's address I can tell you.

If there's a possibility that Scott was an accomplice to this crime, wouldn't there be some phone contact (and a record of that call) between Scott and Brad at an unusual hour....say about 4am on the Saturday Nancy disappeared?

[Sewing_Buddy]

I find it kind of funny that he is able to state with that much exactitude what the times of the grocery runs were. Anybody wanna get in that line with me?

I know we often see cop shows where the eternal question is "Where were you on the night of..." I mean, unless you DO have a receipt or some time record, or perhaps were TRYING to establish an alibi, why would you note the time with such precision? Did he syncronize his watch with the atomic clock before each grocery run?

Stop and think about it for a minute, even if things are JUST EXACTLY like he says, and NC was alive and made those calls, after you found out she was missing and all the chaos that consumed the next few days, would you be able to pinpoint an errand that you ran down to the minute? I would have been lucky to have gotten the time correct to within an hour.

You also have to think about how time passes when you are hopped up with adreneline, it can seem like 15 minutes have passed when it really has been 2 hours. It is hard to pay attention to details, and to recall events clearly.

Now, this came from a work of fiction, and might not be true, but a detective is confronting someone he susptects of having committed a crime, and the alibi is not very convincing. The suspect says that he knows his alibi does not sound convincing, and he wishes he had a better one, but the Detective says, "No, alibies, the real ones anyway, have more holes than a Salvation Army Suit. I start to worry when they look like suits of armor."

CyberPro

It's very easy to get the exact time of a phone call and like you said, he may have a receipt. I would guess his lawyers helped him establish his timeline based on info from the phone records and/or receipts so it could be verified.

[SleuthyGal]

I sincerely doubt there was an accomplice on this crime. I think it happened kind of spur-of-the-moment. If Brad did it and if he is a 'private' as some say, then I don't see him trusting anyone enough to inform them of this...not to mention taking the risk of yet another person being spotted/seen. I think we're looking at a single perp in this crime.

[Sewing_Buddy]

I sincerely doubt there was an accomplice on this crime. I think it happened kind of spur-of-the-moment. If Brad did it and if he is a 'private' as some say, then I don't see him trusting anyone enough to inform them of this...not to mention taking the risk of yet another person being spotted/seen. I think we're looking at a single perp in this crime.

I agree with you. IMO it was strangulation (no blood) and he put her in something like a garbage bag where there wouldn't be traces left behind in the trunk of his car.

[mahmoo]

Glad I'm not the only one that's questioning the two trips to HT after 6 AM.......I've been thinking about it for days trying to play that scenario out and for some reason cannot wrap my mind around it. I believe he made 2 trips to the store but I still think the first trip was around 4 AM.

Assuming Brad is responsible for his wife's death.....I don't think it was pre-planned at all and don't feel like anyone else was involved other than himself. If it had been pre-planned I think her body would have been taken much further away and placed in a much more remote location......she was placed very nearby because he just didn't have time to take her anywhere else.

As for manner of death.....I'd considered the possibility that maybe he pushed her down the stairs in the heat of an argument.....but, then again.....there was something LE saw on her that made them realize right away she was murdered......makes me think either she WAS stabbed (like the rumor that's floating around Cisco) or gunshot.

Also, after re-reading his affadavit.....he mentions she came home from the BBQ around midnight.....he fails to mention if he was awake when she returned or if she supposedly told him the next the morning.

[Just the Fax]

Glad I'm not the only one that's questioning the two trips to HT after 6 AM.......I've been thinking about it for days trying to play that scenario out and for some reason cannot wrap my mind around it. I believe he made 2 trips to the store but I still think the first trip was around 4 AM.

.

This guy obviously knows HT has recorded video everywhere in the store.
Remember, he and his attorney heard and read about the 4 am rumor before he made a sworn statement on his civil affidavit that the trips were 6:15 and 6:45. If he was at the store at 4 am, his attorney would have made him come up with an excuse for being there at that time.

[mahmoo]

This guy obviously knows HT has recorded video everywhere in the store.
Remember, he and his attorney heard and read about the 4 am rumor before he made a sworn statement on his civil affidavit that the trips were 6:15 and 6:45. If he was at the store at 4 am, his attorney would have made him come up with an excuse for being there at that time.

True.....but there is a possibility BC hasn't been completely truthful with his attorney.

[runnermomof5]

... unless you had just murdered your wife, then it would be the last thing you wanted to do.

ha ha. good one!

on another note, I would LOVE to meet up with you guys.
Um, how many hours to drive from Texas to NC? :)
Just kidding!

[raisincharlie]

Glad I'm not the only one that's questioning the two trips to HT after 6 AM.......I've been thinking about it for days trying to play that scenario out and for some reason cannot wrap my mind around it. I believe he made 2 trips to the store but I still think the first trip was around 4 AM.

Assuming Brad is responsible for his wife's death.....I don't think it was pre-planned at all and don't feel like anyone else was involved other than himself. If it had been pre-planned I think her body would have been taken much further away and placed in a much more remote location......she was placed very nearby because he just didn't have time to take her anywhere else.

As for manner of death.....I'd considered the possibility that maybe he pushed her down the stairs in the heat of an argument.....but, then again.....there was something LE saw on her that made them realize right away she was murdered......makes me think either she WAS stabbed (like the rumor that's floating around Cisco) or gunshot.

Also, after re-reading his affadavit.....he mentions she came home from the BBQ around midnight.....he fails to mention if he was awake when she returned or if she supposedly told him the next the morning.

Could be he went to HT twice between 6 and 7 to make sure someone or some video equipment captured his mug and or vehicle. Doesn't mean he didn't go to a totally different store at 4 am. He could tell LE about HT because it would maybe keep them from checking other locations for his face and if anyone saw his car - he could say yes I was out making multiple trips to HT.

[mahmoo]

Does anyone know or remember if a cadaver dog was brought to the Cooper residence?

[Just the Fax]

True.....but there is a possibility BC hasn't been completely truthful with his attorney.
The cops have the videos.
He cooperated and obviously told them where he was.
This guy is certainly no dummy.
If the cops had a video of him at 4 am and he had no explanation, he would be charged last week at the latest.

[mahmoo]

Could be he went to HT twice between 6 and 7 to make sure someone or some video equipment captured his mug and or vehicle. Doesn't mean he didn't go to a totally different store at 4 am. He could tell LE about HT because it would maybe keep them from checking other locations for his face and if anyone saw his car - he could say yes I was out making multiple trips to HT.

Totally agree!!

[Just the Fax]

Does anyone know or remember if a cadaver dog was brought to the Cooper residence?

We had extensive discussion on this.
No one was saw a dog at the home and it has not been reported.

[raisincharlie]

Totally agree!!

He sure liked wearing that Cisco hat pulled down low aye?

[SleuthyGal]

He sure liked wearing that Cisco hat pulled down low aye?

Much to the chagrin of every CSCO PR professional, marketing professional and company Sr. Mgmt, I'm sure.

[Just the Fax]

Could be he went to HT twice between 6 and 7 to make sure someone or some video equipment captured his mug and or vehicle. Doesn't mean he didn't go to a totally different store at 4 am. He could tell LE about HT because it would maybe keep them from checking other locations for his face and if anyone saw his car - he could say yes I was out making multiple trips to HT.

Well, the 4 am story originated here.
The report was he was at the same store a 4 am and told the cops 6 am



momto3kids:
"I have a strong feeling her husband Brad has something to do with this. The police are in possession of a video with Brad early Saturday morning at a local store. He told the police he went to get milk and bread at 6am. The video has Brad buying detergent with bleach and/or bleach actually purchased at 4am. redacted statement I feel this is a cruical piece of evidence indicating something had occured. ."

[mahmoo]

We had extensive discussion on this.
No one was saw a dog at the home and it has not been reported.

Hmmmm.......I've been following the case fairly closely.....guess I missed that discussion....sorry.

I wonder why they wouldn't bring dogs to residence/cars.....seems like that could give LE some quick answers.....especially if there was a hit.

[Just the Fax]

Hmmmm.......I've been following the case fairly closely.....guess I missed that discussion....sorry.

I wonder why they wouldn't bring dogs to residence/cars.....seems like that could give LE some quick answers.....especially if there was a hit.

Yes, we had the same concern.
Maybe they did bring in a dog and it went unnoticed

[momto3kids]

Wyn,

You are very brave to get your prescriptions filled at that CVS. I have taken several there, and have felt like the kids would get well on their own before they ever got around to filling them. Seems at times like you could die of old age before they fill the bottles... makes me want to check the expiration dates on the meds, just in case they have expired while I was waiting on them.

I sometimes wonder if they do that so you will busy yourself looking around the store while you are waiting, and find some other stuff to buy.

CyberPro

:floorlaugh: Now thats funny, if I have to say so myself!!!

I got a prescription filled there yesterday for the 1st time in months. Used to be 2 hrs, 30 minutes now. I knew business had dropped off or they have many more employee's. Hmmm.. only 3 cars in parking lot including employee's :waitasec:. Less business I think.

[raisincharlie]

Hmmmm.......I've been following the case fairly closely.....guess I missed that discussion....sorry.

I wonder why they wouldn't bring dogs to residence/cars.....seems like that could give LE some quick answers.....especially if there was a hit.

Mahmoo - this is the link that mentions the dogs but it really gives no detail about where the dogs were used. It does seem to imply the dogs were used for search rather than investigation.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3197372/

[Just the Fax]

momto3kids

Can you give us some more info on the alleged 4 am store visit ?

[raisincharlie]

Much to the chagrin of every CSCO PR professional, marketing professional and company Sr. Mgmt, I'm sure.

I bet you are 100% correct :)

[Just the Fax]

Mahmoo - this is the link that mentions the dogs but it really gives no detail about where the dogs were used. It does seem to imply the dogs were used for search rather than investigation.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3197372/

If used at the house at all, the cadaver dogs would have been used when they conducted the SW at the house

[mahmoo]

Mahmoo - this is the link that mentions the dogs but it really gives no detail about where the dogs were used. It does seem to imply the dogs were used for search rather than investigation.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3197372/

Thanks raisin.........I do recall the dogs being used to search.....just don't recall hearing if dogs were brought to the residence after her body was located.

[raisincharlie]

Thanks raisin.........I do recall the dogs being used to search.....just don't recall hearing if dogs were brought to the residence after her body was located.

I just don't recall hearing anything about the dogs being used at the house. However, it seems to me that even during the search, a good starting point for the dogs would have been at the house - simply to determine which way she went if nothing else.

[stillblv]

Brad's timeline from 6-7 that morning bothers me. I could swear I heard him tell Greta, in a telephone interview, that Nancy had left at 6 or 6:30. Unfortunately, Greta doesn't have transcripts available of the interview. I believe it was on July 14, Monday,......not sure, but fairly certain. He may have even said "6, 6:30, 7," or something like that.

NOW that has TURNED into 7. No mention of the other times now.

IMHO, LE needs to contact On The Record producers and get a copy of that short clip. It might be important on Brad's allegations of the morning timeline.

Another thing about Brad's description of the mornings timeline and description of just,.......things.

Perps OFTEN volunteer information before it is asked.

As we saw in the Laci Peterson case, they OFTEN give too much detail. I guess they think that makes it more believeable.

Like I said yesterday, "The devil is in the details."

JMHO
fran


Fran - I don't know if he did a phone interview with Greta too but I KNOW I just watched the phone interview he did with that blonde lawyer chick who is always on Bill O'Reilly. I will try to find it again. He might have talked about that time on there.

[momto3kids]

Glad I'm not the only one that's questioning the two trips to HT after 6 AM.......I've been thinking about it for days trying to play that scenario out and for some reason cannot wrap my mind around it. I believe he made 2 trips to the store but I still think the first trip was around 4 AM.







You are totally on the right track with this.

I haven't said another thing since my 1st post about HT, but I posted last night to start including 4am into the possible scenario's.
All I will say is, after last night and what I heard (unless this person is bold face lying to me) I really think 4am is crucial in this. Actually a little after 4am...closer to 4:20am.

BC could have made more trips to HT as he has stated for what ever reason he had at 6am and 6:45am, but I really think he made a trip to HT right after 4am.

[Just the Fax]

"Wake County District Attorney Colon Willoughby asked that no part of the warrants be released, saying that keeping the information private at this point in the investigation is crucial to the case.

"It may be of the nature that would alert someone who is an offender as to what evidence law enforcement has," Willoughby said. "It may alert an offender as to what evidence law enforcement is seeking."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3306798/

This statement in court from the DA is confusing. It is my understanding Brad Cooper was served the SW on his residence and he and his attorney have a copy of the SW. If this is the case, he is already alerted to the evidence LE is seeking :confused:

[macd]

When we first heard of the trips to the store, we assumed it was because of poor planning. He needed detergent to clean up.

Now, it looks like the trips to the store were to establish an alibi. If a call was made at 6:40am from the house to a cell phone near the grocery store, then that creates a strong circumstantial alibi, backed up by phone records and surveillance video.

The key to this case will be to prove that that phone call was faked.

[Just the Fax]

You are totally on the right track with this.

I haven't said another thing since my 1st post about HT, but I posted last night to start including 4am into the possible scenario's.
All I will say is, after last night and what I heard (unless this person is bold face lying to me) I really think 4am is crucial in this. Actually a little after 4am...closer to 4:20am.

BC could have made more trips to HT as he has stated for what ever reason he had at 6am and 6:45am, but I really think he made a trip to HT right after 4am.

Wow, if true, I am shocked he is not behind bars at this point.
That video evidence is a smoking gun, especially if he denied being there that early.

[Onescout]

When we first heard of the trips to the store, we assumed it was because of poor planning. He needed detergent to clean up.

Now, it looks like the trips to the store were to establish an alibi. If a call was made at 6:40am from the house to a cell phone near the grocery store, then that creates a strong circumstantial alibi, backed up by phone records and surveillance video.

The key to this case will be to prove that that phone call was faked.



Bingo!

[momto3kids]

Wow, if true, I am shocked he is not behind bars at this point.
That video evidence is a smoking gun, especially if he denied being there that early.

Buying detergent doesn't prove murder. It proves he is a liar! Believe me he has tried to cover this base about the purchase, I don't know how effective he has been.

[SleuthyGal]

BC could have made more trips to HT as he has stated for what ever reason he had at 6am and 6:45am, but I really think he made a trip to HT right after 4am.

This is going to be key, I think. And of course it's the most provable one way or the other. Store cameras, receipt. This would be a really stupid thing to lie about due to the fact that one would get caught in such a lie poste haste. I really don't believe he made a 4am-5am visit to any store--I'd have to see the video myself to believe it. It would just be so incredibly stupid ... and then to lie about it.

Could he be THAT stupid?

[Just the Fax]

Buying detergent doesn't prove murder. It proves he is a liar! Believe me he has tried to cover this base about the purchase, I don't know how effective he has been.

No offense mom, I am very sceptical that he was at the HT at 4:20 am.
Makes no sense that he would totally dispute that by saying it was 6 :15 and 6:40.

After all, this guy is very close to a rocket scientist.

[mahmoo]

Wow, if true, I am shocked he is not behind bars at this point.
That video evidence is a smoking gun, especially if he denied being there that early.

Frankly, I'm not surprised he hasn't been arrested yet. I don't believe that will happen until the investigation has been completed.

[mahmoo]

No offense mom, I am very sceptical that he was at the HT at 4:20 am.
Makes no sense that he would totally dispute that by saying it was 6 :15 and 6:40.

After all, this guy is very close to a rocket scientist.

Sometimes extremely brilliant people have no common sense though.

[raisincharlie]

Buying detergent doesn't prove murder. It proves he is a liar! Believe me he has tried to cover this base about the purchase, I don't know how effective he has been.

I agree - even if LE knows he was in the store at 4:20 - they can arrest him for what ? Not being able to read his watch? LE isn't moving until the DA says so and the DA isn't going to say so until he feels he can prove the case not argue the time.

[Just the Fax]

Frankly, I'm not surprised he hasn't been arrested yet. I don't believe that will happen until the investigation has been completed.

You think ? My point was if they had video evidence of him being in the HT at 4 am and he denied it.

At this point, it is about forensics and developing a CE case.

[stillblv]

Here is the video interview with Megyn Kelly and Brad Cooper on Monday morning, July 14. Brad says she left between 6:30 and 7:00 Saturday morning for her run and that he was at home with the girls.

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=2297099&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/americasnewsroom/

[SleuthyGal]

All I will say is, after last night and what I heard (unless this person is bold face lying to me) I really think 4am is crucial in this.

Did your 'source' see evidence for themselves that shows this? Or are they repeating what they heard from someone else? If they saw something directly then yeah, I'd believe it. If not...well....nothing personal, but I'd still have to see it for myself.

[SleuthyGal]

the DA isn't going to say so until he feels he can prove the case not argue the time.

Very true! The DA gets one shot in court and he's not going to jump the gun. There's no reason to. Plus the longer someone of interest has 'out there' to talk about their activities, the more info they may provide. cf. Scott Peterson.

[jumpstreet]

"Wake County District Attorney Colon Willoughby asked that no part of the warrants be released, saying that keeping the information private at this point in the investigation is crucial to the case.

"It may be of the nature that would alert someone who is an offender as to what evidence law enforcement has," Willoughby said. "It may alert an offender as to what evidence law enforcement is seeking."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3306798/

This statement in court from the DA is confusing. It is my understanding Brad Cooper was served the SW on his residence and he and his attorney have a copy of the SW. If this is the case, he is already alerted to the evidence LE is seeking :confused:

I think what's disclosed is only the SW itself, not the associated affidavits (which provide documentation for the probable cause (and possibly goals) for the SW), and not the results (inventory) from the search.

In the hearing yesterday, the attorney for the media was arguing that since some persons do have copies of the SWs themselves (BC, and the employer if nothing else), then at least those docs aren't totally private, and therefore could be disclosed.

The DA didn't want to make any general distinctions though that the SW itself could be made public, nor the other docs (affidavits, and inventory).

So the DA's point (quoted above) is still valid to keep the affidavit and inventory sealed (keep those that know only to the minimum, so as not to alert anyone (else) unnecessarily). This way, if the prime suspect isn't the one to whom the warrant was served (e.g. the workplace warrant, or if prime suspect isn't BC), then keeping the warrant itself sealed prevents any information from being disclosed unnecessarily either.

I still don't fully understand why LE opted to have the workplace location disclosed in the 2nd warrant (vs 3rd warrant, which is a total secret (person/thing/address)). Why not even keep the fact that the workplace is being searched a secret also? [ Not sure I buy the notion that it also would serve as a mechanism to entice other co-workers to come forward and volunteer information - I would think they would make that request explicitly if it was deemed to be of value, but who knows... ]

[momto3kids]

This is going to be key, I think. And of course it's the most provable one way or the other. Store cameras, receipt. This would be a really stupid thing to lie about due to the fact that one would get caught in such a lie poste haste. I really don't think he made a 4am-5am visit to any store--I'd have to see the video myself to believe it. It was just be so incredibly stupid ... and then to lie about it.


Video and receipt doesn't prove murder. He is trying to steer the focus away from himself.
I agree he is stupid to lie about this, but can you imagine he tells the LE...yea I went to HT at 4 for detergent. :waitasec:
Just remember the chiefs response when asked the question...she gave a big sigh.

[Just the Fax]

I think what's disclosed is only the SW itself, not the associated affidavits (which provide documentation for the probable cause (and possibly goals) for the SW), and not the results (inventory) from the search.

In the hearing yesterday, the attorney for the media was arguing that since some persons do have copies of the SWs themselves (BC, and the employer if nothing else), then at least those docs aren't totally private, and therefore could be disclosed.

The DA didn't want to make any general distinctions though that the SW itself could be made public, nor the other docs (affidavits, and inventory).

So the DA's point (quoted above) is still valid to keep the affidavit and inventory sealed (so as not to alert anyone). And of course, if the prime suspect isn't the one to whom the warrant was served, then keeping the warrant itself sealed prevents any information from being disclosed to them either.

I still don't fully understand why LE opted to have the workplace location disclosed in the 2nd warrant (vs 3rd warrant, which is a total secret (person/thing/address). Why not even keep the workplace location a secret. [ Not sure I buy the notion that it was to entice other co-workers to come forwards - I would think they would make that request explicitly if it was deemed to be of value ]


Although sealed, The full SW, including inventory and the PC affidavit was served to Jason Young on 2-14-08.
This information was disclosed by the close 'family friend' and personally verified by one of the detectives at the Butterfly event in May.

[Just the Fax]

Video and receipt doesn't prove murder. He is trying to steer the focus away from himself.
I agree he is stupid to lie about this, but can you imagine he tells the LE...yea I went to HT at 4 for detergent. :waitasec:
Just remember the chiefs response when asked the question...she gave a big sigh.

Video and receipts at the HT at 4:20 am with no explanation is very compelling CE.

[momto3kids]

Did your 'source' see evidence for themselves that shows this? Or are they repeating what they heard from someone else? If they saw something directly then yeah, I'd believe it. If not...well....nothing personal, but I'd still have to see it for myself.

Listen SG, I am not on here to ask anyone to believe me. I will not get into detail about what I found out, but YES this person DID see the video!!! I was told enough to know they saw it and why.

Every one is focused on a particular time, and all I am trying to do is say include 4am. Take it or leave it.

Obviously you believe BC had nothing to do with NC murder. Correct? You believe everything he has stated in his statement?

[Star12]

Does the confiscation by LE of a company's video surveillance tapes require a search warrant, supeona, or what?

[raisincharlie]

Listen SG, I am not on here to ask anyone to believe me. I will not get into detail about what I found out, but YES this person DID see the video!!! I was told enough to know they saw it and why.

Every one is focused on a particular time, and all I am trying to do is say include 4am. Take it or leave it.

Obviously you believe BC had nothing to do with NC murder. Correct? You believe everything he has stated in his statement and he did say HE DID NOT KILL HIS WIFE!

I'll take it. Until it is proven right/wrong it is as possible as anything else we think about.

[jumpstreet]

Although sealed, The full SW, including inventory and the PC affidavit was served to Jason Young on 2-14-08.
This information was disclosed by the close 'family friend' and personally verified by one of the detectives at the Butterfly event in May.

Hmmm... good info. In that case, maybe it is normal for all the docs (warrant, affidavit, and inventory) to be disclosed to who the warrant is being served upon (even if sealed).

Even so, the DA's point would be valid if they need to serve warrants to folks who aren't the primary suspects (e.g. employer, others (or if BC isn't the primary suspect)), and still keep the information contained (ie, inaccessible to those who are the primary suspects)

Also at the hearing, this point for keeping them sealed was just one of a number (at least one other being to not bias the ability for fair trail - (ie, prejudice the potential jury pool with lots of heresay, etc)). In fact, (to me), the judge seemed to emphasize this basis more than some of the others.

[raisincharlie]

Does the confiscation by LE of a company's video surveillance tapes require a search warrant, supeona, or what?

That would be decided really by the owner of the company. In other words, LE is going to ask to see it - the company has the right to tell LE to get a warrant or to let them see it. For the most part - commercial businesses such as retail outlets routinely turn over the tapes with no request for a warrant. A business such as Cisco - no doubt they would tell LE to get a warrant -proprietary info in their systems would demand they have a warrant.

[momto3kids]

That would be decided really by the owner of the company. In other words, LE is going to ask to see it - the company has the right to tell LE to get a warrant or to let them see it. For the most part - commercial businesses such as retail outlets routinely turn over the tapes with no request for a warrant. A business such as Cisco - no doubt they would tell LE to get a warrant -proprietary info in their systems would demand they have a warrant.

I understand HT has been given over anything needed for this case.

[Daphne69]

FWIW, Mto3k, I'm with raisin. I see this as a distinct possibility and have no reason NOT to consider it.

[raisincharlie]

Hmmm... good info. In that case, maybe it is normal for all the docs (warrant, affidavit, and inventory) to be disclosed to who the warrant is being served upon (even if sealed).

Even so, the DA's point would be valid if they need to serve warrants to folks who aren't the primary suspects (e.g. employer, others (or if BC isn't the primary suspect)), and still keep the information contained (ie, inaccessible to those who are the primary suspects)

Also at the hearing, this point for keeping them sealed was just one of a number (at least one other being to not bias the ability for fair trail - (ie, prejudice the potential jury pool with lots of heresay, etc)). In fact, (to me), the judge seemed to emphasize this basis more than some of the others.

A copy of the warrant and attached documents must be provided to the person/entity on who it is served by law - sealed or not. The sealing only keeps it out of public view - it cannot hide it from the person/entity being served.

Brad has no idea what was in the Cisco warrant nor the warrant for an undisclosed person/place. Cisco alone knows what was in the warrent served on them - but they do know. The undisclosed person/place also knows exactly what was in the warrant served on them.

[raisincharlie]

I understand HT has been given over anything needed for this case.

I am comfortable believing they did exactly that. Seen it done many times.

[mahmoo]

Listen SG, I am not on here to ask anyone to believe me. I will not get into detail about what I found out, but YES this person DID see the video!!! I was told enough to know they saw it and why.

Every one is focused on a particular time, and all I am trying to do is say include 4am. Take it or leave it.

Obviously you believe BC had nothing to do with NC murder. Correct? You believe everything he has stated in his statement and he did say HE DID NOT KILL HIS WIFE!

I definitely believe it!! I think that's where he headed after he disposed of her body.

Now, it may well be true what he told LE about making the two trips to HT between 6-7 AM to purchase milk, juice and detergent and he's certainly smart enough to realize they would verify that.

I think where he probably messed up was not realizing LE would check the store video prior to 6 AM and see him there between 4-4:30 AM making the FIRST purchase of some type of cleaner.

So possibly........3 trips to the store :confused:.

[mahmoo]

Listen SG, I am not on here to ask anyone to believe me. I will not get into detail about what I found out, but YES this person DID see the video!!! I was told enough to know they saw it and why.


One more comment on this.......I could see where LE would show this video to the store employees that were on duty at that time.......they would be eye witnesses that could also place him in the store at that time.....showing them the video would help "jog" their memory.

Of course.......still doesn't prove he murdered his wife but um.......sure as heck would look suspicious and I'm certain anyone sitting on a jury would think so too......especially if the only thing he purchased was some type of cleaner.

[Just the Fax]

The video from the Hillsville Hampton Inn was turned over to the cops without a SW in the Michelle Young murder

[Zoe]

maybe he wore his CISCO hat pulled down low and believes his face was obscured by the camera...he seems to want to try and explain his behavior so i cannot figure out why he wouldn't come up w/an explanation about the 4-ish visit to HT, presuming he did go.

[Just the Fax]

maybe he wore his CISCO hat pulled down low and believes his face was obscured by the camera...he seems to want to try and explain his behavior so i cannot figure out why he wouldn't come up w/an explanation about the 4-ish visit to HT, presuming he did go.


The poster had said it was a single trip where he said he bought milk and bread but actually bought detergent w/ bleach. He supposedly told the cops it was 6 am when in fact it was 4:20 am.

mom, how would your source know that he told the cops 6 am ?
I can't imagine anyone at HT knowing what he said to the cops in a very confidential interview.

[mahmoo]

This is going to be key, I think. And of course it's the most provable one way or the other. Store cameras, receipt. This would be a really stupid thing to lie about due to the fact that one would get caught in such a lie poste haste. I really don't believe he made a 4am-5am visit to any store--I'd have to see the video myself to believe it. It would just be so incredibly stupid ... and then to lie about it.

Could he be THAT stupid?

You're right......it would be incredibly stupid.....but then, I thinks it's incredibly stupid to murder someone too, yet people do it.....go figure :confused:.

[momto3kids]

If BC is responsible he was working on adrenaline. Anything is possible with adrenaline and panic. I have felt it was possible with 3 trips.

Detergent to clean any possible mess 4am.
Oops milk needed for kids that are getting up 6am.
Dang I need to show NC was here and alive, call his own cell or use some tech system he might know how to do, drive to HT immediately, another purchase.

What I see thru all this and his story is....why buy detergent if he was planning on going to play tennis? Why would NC send him back out a seperate trip when she had her day planned and it wasn't doing laundry.

Remember she didn't send him after juice, she notified him when he was already at the store. Maybe that is where BC has messed up. He should have said NC sent him back after juice and notified him she needed detergent. :waitasec:

I definitely believe it!! I think that's where he headed after he disposed of her body.

Now, it may well be true what he told LE about making the two trips to HT between 6-7 AM to purchase milk, juice and detergent and he's certainly smart enough to realize they would verify that.

I think where he probably messed up was not realizing LE would check the store video prior to 6 AM and see him there between 4-4:30 AM making the FIRST purchase of some type of cleaner.

So possibly........3 trips to the store :confused:.

[mahmoo]

The poster had said it was a single trip where he said he bought milk and bread but actually bought detergent w/ bleach. He supposedly told the cops it was 6 am when in fact it was 4:20 am.

mom, how would your source know that he told the cops 6 am ?
I can't imagine anyone at HT knowing what he said to the cops in a very confidential interview.

Apparently someone knew because mom mentioned the 6 AM trip before BC's affidavit was taken and released publicly.

Just wanted to add.......mom's post was on 7/15........BC's affidavit was dated 7/23.

[MtnMom]

I haven't heard anyone mention this in a while, but, was there ever a reason for BC to be wearing long sleeves after she went missing? Seems like he might have been trying to cover up something. BTW I'm new here, can't seem to stop getting sucked into these cases! I've been luring a long time, finally decided to register and join in the "fun".

[Just the Fax]

Apparently someone knew because mom mentioned the 6 AM trip before BC's affidavit was taken and released publicly.

If the cops leaked this info to HT and it then tricked down to other employees, that was a huge mistake on their part.

[Zoe]

If the cops leaked this info to HT and it then tricked down to other employees, that was a huge mistake on their part.

it might be that the person at HT that provided the video told others that LE wanted video / looked at video from the store beginning at 6am and word quickly spread around - just a thought.

[SusieClue]

I haven't heard anyone mention this in a while, but, was there ever a reason for BC to be wearing long sleeves after she went missing? Seems like he might have been trying to cover up something. BTW I'm new here, can't seem to stop getting sucked into these cases! I've been luring a long time, finally decided to register and join in the "fun".

Hi and welcome! It has been noted that he wore long sleeves to his press conference on a HOT day... makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[mahmoo]

I haven't heard anyone mention this in a while, but, was there ever a reason for BC to be wearing long sleeves after she went missing? Seems like he might have been trying to cover up something. BTW I'm new here, can't seem to stop getting sucked into these cases! I've been luring a long time, finally decided to register and join in the "fun".

LOL.....some of these cases can become very addictive unfortunately and there seems to be no shortage of them.

As for the long sleeves.....if my memory serves me correctly.....someone local reported seeing scratches on his arms (or someone the poster knew saw the scratches) but the consensus was they could have come from the vegetation while searching. I'm sure if in fact he did have scratches, LE would be able to distinguish whether they were caused from bushes/brush or if they were scratches caused by fingernails. Someone also noted from photos that LE was wearing long sleeves too even though the weather was quite warm.

[Star12]

Hi and welcome! It has been noted that he wore long sleeves to his press conference on a HOT day... makes you wonder, doesn't it?

It was either later that day, or the next day, that I noticed two men working on the roof of a bank building in northwest Cary. They both were wearing long sleeves. And it was sweltering hot that day, too.

I also know people who wear long sleeves year round.

Not me, though.

[Tink56]

Good observation on the long sleeves...

BTW, scratches must not be too easy to discern. I'm from San Diego and if you remember the Danielle Van Dam case, David Westerfield had scratches on his arm, but LE couldn't positively source them. After the trial, the lead prosecutor stated that he still "believed" the scratches were from Danielle, but couldn't prove it.

LOL.....some of these cases can become very addictive unfortunately and there seems to be no shortage of them.

As for the long sleeves.....if my memory serves me correctly.....someone local reported seeing scratches on his arms (or someone the poster knew saw the scratches) but the consensus was they could have come from the vegetation while searching. I'm sure if in fact he did have scratches, LE would be able to distinguish whether they were caused from bushes/brush or if they were scratches caused by fingernails. Someone also noted from photos that LE was wearing long sleeves too even though the weather was quite warm.

[carolinalady]

I haven't heard anyone mention this in a while, but, was there ever a reason for BC to be wearing long sleeves after she went missing? Seems like he might have been trying to cover up something. BTW I'm new here, can't seem to stop getting sucked into these cases! I've been luring a long time, finally decided to register and join in the "fun".

Another poster who was out searching the same day as BC said that he was wearing long sleeves during the search. On that Monday, it was raining and that poster said people were getting chilled from the rain.

[reddress58]

You'd only have to wait for the one at Harris Teeter. You'd be making a right on to Kildaire Farm Road. The pharmacy is open at HT in the middle of the night?? I didn't know that. I get my prescriptions at the CVS on the corner of Kildaire and Penny. Sometimes they close before I remember to go by!
Oh, he needed to get a glucose testing kit...not a prescription. Sorry. Yes, the pharmacy is closed. They didn't have the kit either so we had to drive to the Fuquay Walmart since the Cary one is not open all night.

[momto3kids]

Has anyone seen BC in a North Face jacket in any photo's? A lightweight one.

[SleuthyGal]

I'm from San Diego and if you remember the Danielle Van Dam case

I followed that case every step of the way!

[reddress58]

Has anyone seen BC in a North Face jacket in any photo's? A lightweight one.
Why do you ask?

[raisincharlie]

Has anyone seen the BMW X5 outside the home lately ?

[reddress58]

Has anyone seen the BMW X5 outside the home lately ?
No, I haven't; and I've driven by a few times the past couple days.

[momto3kids]

Has anyone seen the BMW X5 outside the home lately ?

Nope....I have wondered why it got put inside the garage or taken elsewhere. I would figure he would have his BMW in the garage to avoid having to go thru the front door every time unless he is going thru the garage to get in.

[SleuthyGal]

We're assuming of course that LE brought it back (if they took it somewhere for awhile to look for forensic evidence). Do we know for sure he has it (back)?

[Tink56]

LOL...there remains contention about the verdict to this day, but, IMO, LE in general seems to be getting cases in more precise order before naming persons of interest or arresting anyone, partially as a result of the hurried trial, etc. Westerfield demanded.

I'm okay with the extra time the CPD is taking and the fact it is remaining "mostly" quiet about the investigation into Nancy Cooper's death.


I followed that case every step of the way!

[raisincharlie]

We're assuming of course that LE brought it back (if they took it somewhere for awhile to look for forensic evidence). Do we know for sure he has it (back)?

There was a tv news video done outside the house after LE left. The Suv was in the drive - so LE did not take it under that warrant at least. Will see if I can find that video for you.

[raisincharlie]

Thanks all - about the SUV .

[reddress58]

Has anyone seen BC in a North Face jacket in any photo's? A lightweight one.
Mom, Raisin, if anybody, would probably remember this. He's the one who noted the missing stickers on the license plate. RAISIN? Do you remember Brad wearing this jacket in any pictures? And, Mom, why do you ask? Just curious. Is it what he had on in the store video?

[Star12]

Perhaps he sold it, or is selling it, to cover some of his legal fees.

[raisincharlie]

Mom, Raisin, if anybody, would probably remember this. He's the one who noted the missing stickers on the license plate. RAISIN? Do you remember Brad wearing this jacket in any pictures? And, Mom, why do you ask? Just curious. Is it what he had on in the store video?

I do not remember Brad wearing such a jacket, however I do remember a picture of an LE officer half way inside Brads trash can fishing around...:crazy:

[raisincharlie]

Perhaps he sold it, or is selling it, to cover some of his legal fees.

Perhaps it is at an undisclosed location.

[reddress58]

Perhaps he sold it, or is selling it, to cover some of his legal fees.
Both cars are probably in the garage. I'm guessing a bunch of people drive by his house everyday out of curiousity, and the less items to gawk at the better. He may have had to de-clutter the garage to make room, but I sure would move in the cars if I were him.

[Star12]

Or, perhaps he just titled over the car to his attorneys.

[Sailing gal]

How much long is it going to be until we hear something from the lawyers or police?

[reddress58]

:floorlaugh: ....and the deed to the house!

[2Daughters1Dog]

... unless you had just murdered your wife, then it would be the last thing you wanted to do.

I was on my way home from work once and got stuck on the interstate because a small plane had made a crash landing a mile ahead of me. Sat there for 4 hours. This was before cell phones.

When I finally made it home my husband had called everyone under the sun and the ER looking for me. I spent the rest of the evening calling 20 people back to apologize for worrying them.
I too would be calling the police in addition to local emergency rooms, her girlfriends, the neighbors, etc.

Whether she'd been missing less than 24 hrs. or not the police could have told him if she'd been hit by a car or involved in something else that they'd possibly been called out on. The police are not just for missing people reports.

My BIL is a cop, a "first responder". If there's an injury or illness related 911 call, the police show up first to secure the area for the paramedics. Calling the police would have been the logical thing to do.

perhaps your husband knew the plane crashed in an area you normally traveled at about that time (it sure sounds like it).

since it was a work week, he obviously also expected you home at a specific time. And for you to be late was unusual.

And you were/are in a happy marriage where you care about each other.

In his affidavit - it spells out the timeline from "his perspective". She was due home, but was late. At the same time, it was a Saturday, not a work day. And he says she previously had stayed away for many hours, hanging out at this Java Jive or similar gathering spot with friends.

So, if he is innocent, he'd have no reason - other than the rocky marriage and being pissed off she screwed his plans over - to worry to death.

He says he did go searching and made calls to friends - someone here says they've read this was corroborated by one of the neighbor wives.

[d99gr81]

Fran - I don't know if he did a phone interview with Greta too but I KNOW I just watched the phone interview he did with that blonde lawyer chick who is always on Bill O'Reilly. I will try to find it again. He might have talked about that time on there.

You have a link to this phone interview?

[d99gr81]

This is going to be key, I think. And of course it's the most provable one way or the other. Store cameras, receipt. This would be a really stupid thing to lie about due to the fact that one would get caught in such a lie poste haste. I really don't believe he made a 4am-5am visit to any store--I'd have to see the video myself to believe it. It would just be so incredibly stupid ... and then to lie about it.

Could he be THAT stupid?

It is very easy to prove... and if it was true he would be behind bars all ready. I don't believe it. His rebuttal to this fact say detergent not bleach which is also easy to prove.

[momto3kids]

Perhaps it is at an undisclosed location.

I'm with you on this thought.

Real Estate agent told them to de-clutter in order to sell. First place everyone takes their items is to the garage. Having two young kids with all their items, I bet it looks like my neighbors!

I'm not saying the SUV is not in the garage, but he is parked outdoors now.

[momto3kids]

It is very easy to prove... and if it was true he would be behind bars all ready. I don't believe it. His rebuttal to this fact say detergent not bleach which is also easy to prove.

I do not agree. When does buying detergent put you in prison for murder??
All it does is place doubt to the LE and show you are a liar.
The purchase will show a different time line also then BC originally told.

[Deduction]

I just don't recall hearing anything about the dogs being used at the house. However, it seems to me that even during the search, a good starting point for the dogs would have been at the house - simply to determine which way she went if nothing else.

I agree with this completly and keep wondering the same thing myself.
I also have wondered why perhaps the search helicopters did not locate the body. Although the people on foot had not searched that area yet, I am certain the choppers were covering a broader area.

[fran]

This guy obviously knows HT has recorded video everywhere in the store.
Remember, he and his attorney heard and read about the 4 am rumor before he made a sworn statement on his civil affidavit that the trips were 6:15 and 6:45. If he was at the store at 4 am, his attorney would have made him come up with an excuse for being there at that time.

These guys lie and think everyone will believe them because they said so. EVEN though what they said can be verified to NOT be the truth, they think they can talk themselves out of it.

We saw this during the Laci Peterson case and since, well, we've seen it time and time again. Expect there are going to be other items come out that can be verified and Brad will STICK to his story.

One thing, expect his attorney to challenge the reliability of the time stamp on the video at the store.

IF it goes to trial, you can count on that challenge.

Attack the law
Attack the evidence
Attack the witness

Lawyer speak.;)

JMHO
fran

[fran]

True.....but there is a possibility BC hasn't been completely truthful with his attorney.

Believe me, that lawyer does NOT want to know the truth.

He ONLY wants to hear he's innocent.

That's the ONLY way he can defend him. He MUST believe he's innocent, even IF he DOESN'T.

That's the law of our land. The defendent is entitled to a proper defense. To the very end...............

JMHO
fran

[raisincharlie]

I agree with this completly and keep wondering the same thing myself.
I also have wondered why perhaps the search helicopters did not locate the body. Although the people on foot had not searched that area yet, I am certain the choppers were covering a broader area.

The helicopter question is a good one and I do wonder about it. If it is true, and there is no reason to doubt it, that the person who found the body noticed it because of the vultures - one would think the vultures didn't walk there and perhaps a helicopter pilot might have noticed them. It is strange - perhaps there were no helicopters on Monday - the day she was found.

[fran]

Does anyone know or remember if a cadaver dog was brought to the Cooper residence?

I honestly don't know the answer to that one. BUT, IF there WASN'T, it may behoove LE to take one over there even now. It MAY show LE the trail that poor Nancy's body took within that home. OH, and perhaps WHICH car was used.

Just and idea,
fran

[RoughlyCollie]

That is not true. The vast majority of lawyers don't ask their clients if they are guilty because it doesn't matter and because clients lie. Often, the lawyer pretty much knows what happened because of the evidence against the client. The client is entitled to a zealous defense even if s/he murdered someone.

What does matter is whether the government has enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the client committed the murder.

We've only had a few murder cases in which we thought the client *might* be factually innocent. In two of them, it later turned out that the clients were guilty. In one, the evidence against the client was so flimsy that to this day we cannot figure out how the client could have been found guilty of murdering his wife, although we don't know whether he did it or not. In that case, the evidence in the client's favor was fairly strong -- especially in view of the fact that it is hard to prove a negative -- and the investigation and the autopsy were shoddily done.


Believe me, that lawyer does NOT want to know the truth.

He ONLY wants to hear he's innocent.

That's the ONLY way he can defend him. He MUST believe he's innocent, even IF he DOESN'T.

That's the law of our land. The defendent is entitled to a proper defense. To the very end...............

JMHO
fran

[fran]

The cops have the videos.
He cooperated and obviously told them where he was.
This guy is certainly no dummy.
If the cops had a video of him at 4 am and he had no explanation, he would be charged last week at the latest.

Nah, don't count on it. He may be very intelligent, but that doesn't mean he's SMART.

Just watch as this unfolds. You'll see what I mean. Especially IF it goes to trial with him as the defendent.

You'll see.

JMHO
fran

PS......I'm about 100 posts behind on this thread, gotta run........catch you'all later!...maybe I'll read futher into this thread before I post anymore. Great di