Amateur Astrological Info on Casey and Caylee [Archive] - Page 2

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housemouse

08-20-2008, 02:42 PM

Three of the midpoints are particularly interesting, and describe the arraignment perfectly. There are so many more that could be included, but I just do not have enough time to type them all in.

The first one is particularly important, as it is very close in orb

Saturn = Sun/Uranus
sudden separation, sudden loss, separation from another carried out in haste

Pluto = Sun/Moon
critical phases in life, separation from others

Uranus = Ascendant/Midheaven,
sudden experiences, quick determination, spoiling of one's plans
Uranus = Mars/ Saturn
sudden accident, separation, case of death

Soulscape

08-20-2008, 03:56 PM

Hello Housemouse, Neptunian and Others,

This is my first post having just got approved. I've been following this thread all along, as I am another astrologer with high interest in forensic astrology. I have some comments about the Arraignment chart. I will try not to get too jargon-y:

First, I give 1st House (Virgo) and its Ruler MERCURY to Casey. After studying this chart I give VENUS to Caylee. Notice they are both in 12th House, partile conjunct. That means they are in the same degree (18). Also note this is the same degree as the North and South Nodes (18 Aquarius/Leo). Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson said **any planet or angle in the same degree as the Nodes points to a catastrophe, casualty, fatality or tragedy in a horary or natal chart, the more far-reaching when a malefic is involved.** (Simplified Horary Astrology, page 52).

1. The angles are mutable: the situation changes. This is especially suggested with URANUS (sudden changes) on the Descendant.

2. Look at the Lights (Sun and Moon). They tell us something. SUN in 12th House of Imprisonment, trine MOON in 8th House of Death, trine PLUTO (death) in 4th House of the Grave. (not forgetting transit Pluto is squaring Casey's natal 28 Pisces Sun....)

3. SUN, ruler of 12th House of Imprisonment, in late degree of Leo, about to lose dignity (will be going into Virgo).

4. MOON in 8th House of Death in the exaltation and triplicity of SUN (ruler of the 12th House of Imprisonment), in the detriment of VENUS (Caylee) forming trine with PLUTO (Death) and SUN (prison). MOON is besieged (trapped) between URANUS and the malefic South Node.

5. MERCURY (Casey) is in the 12th House of Imprisonment (jail) partile conjunct (in the same degree) VENUS (Caylee). Casey is in prison at the time of the arraignment and that's where she'll stay because they will pin murder of Caylee on her.

MERCURY (Casey) in fated degree (18, same as Nodes)
VENUS (Caylee) in fated degree (18, same as Nodes)
URANUS exactly on 7th House cusp, exactly opposite the Ascendant: sudden change in status of case (mutable angles
BLACK MOON LILITH* partile conjunct (in same degree) as the IC (20 Sag), exactly opposite the Midheaven. (*Not shown on chart. In mythology, LILITH is the demon mother who kills children.)

MARS = violence, murder in 1st House on the Aries point (01 Libra). The antiscion of MARS is 28 Pisces ---- CASEY'S NATAL SUN!!! (Antiscion shows a hidden influence. This is what is hidden: Casey responsible for violence/?murder of Caylee.

This chart strongly suggests Casey will not get out on bond before her Arraignment tomorrow morning. It also suggests new charges being slapped on her. Whether murder or not, that remains to be seen.

Housemouse, thank you so much for starting this thread. I have been wanting to discuss astrologically and now it is possible!!

Thanks,
Soulscape

DeltaDawn

08-20-2008, 04:02 PM

Wow..thank you astrologers for this info. It fits into the case and feels right on the mark.

sweetwater

08-20-2008, 04:02 PM

Thank you all for this insightful work.
Welcome and thank you, Soulscape.

miss lisa

08-20-2008, 05:13 PM

SNIPPED FOR SPACE BLACK MOON LILITH* partile conjunct (in same degree) as the IC (20 Sag), exactly opposite the Midheaven. (*Not shown on chart. In mythology, LILITH is the demon mother who kills children.)

MARS = violence, murder in 1st House on the Aries point (01 Libra). The antiscion of MARS is 28 Pisces ---- CASEY'S NATAL SUN!!! (Antiscion shows a hidden influence. This is what is hidden: Casey responsible for violence/?murder of Caylee.

This chart strongly suggests Casey will not get out on bond before her Arraignment tomorrow morning. It also suggests new charges being slapped on her. Whether murder or not, that remains to be seen.

Housemouse, thank you so much for starting this thread. I have been wanting to discuss astrologically and now it is possible!!

Thanks,
Soulscape

WOW! WOW! WOW! That's really all I can say. WOW! :eek:

housemouse

08-20-2008, 08:17 PM

housemouse

08-20-2008, 08:59 PM

This post is for those of you just beginning to learn more about astrology.

It is a computer-generated forecast, done by my software (Time Cycles Research, Io Forecast). It is interesting to read, and then try to adapt to Casey's particular situation.

As you can see, it is written very generally, but you can interpret on your own how this might apply to Casey's particular situation. Doing this can "definitely, absolutely" lead to some dark humor!

Transit MERCURY square natal Uranus
Aug 23 through Aug 24, exact on Aug 23

Since your ideas about what’s different or unique may be at odds with other people’s notions, a certain amount of discussion and clarification becomes necessary. During this period you may find yourself a little out of synch with those who are trying to communicate with you, either because you are not in your usual location or following your normal schedule, or because they aren’t. Under this influence you either understand or approach most things in a nonpersonal, societal way and thus misinterpret what others want you to understand on a personal level, or, others take what you say in a personal way when your only intention was to discuss the broader societal implications of some issue.

Transit VENUS square natal Uranus
Aug 23 through Aug 25, exact on Aug 24

Interactions of all kinds; romantic, social, business, friendships and even fleeting encounters with such people as salesclerks or bank tellers-- can have a way of putting you in touch with the values and social mores of your own generation rather than what is currently fashionable. It can work in many different ways and on many different levels. You may, for instance, be wearing a certain style of clothing and find yourself among those dressed in fashions that differ strikingly from your own. Your interactions with others may also differ strikingly enough to make social events somewhat awkward. Any of these potential circumstances can end up being pleasant experiences, even if they are initially uncomfortable. Others are apt to eventually come around to finding you attractive and interesting, and you are able to succeed at something because of your uniqueness not in spite of it. Coordinating group activities is apt to be frustrating but if you rise to the challenge, your efforts may produce viable results.

Transit MERCURY opposed natal Mercury
Aug 23 through Aug 25, exact on Aug 24

Attempts to mesh people and ideas together in some sort of meaningful way are useless for the time being. You may become very discouraged coping with diverse opinions and people running off in opposite directions. You may hear or read about various ideas on a certain subject but these ideas may not agree with each other or answer your questions. What is worse, they may be in total conflict with your own thinking. There is no mechanism for the easy flow or exchange of communications. People keep changing their minds, or you do. No one agrees on a price, a time to meet, or the best way to reach a destination. Trying to teach or trying to learn is difficult at best.

Transit VENUS opposed natal Mercury
Aug 24 through Aug 25, exact on Aug 25

Rudeness or total lack of communication is a viable potential during this period. Presenting your thoughts and ideas to others is not a good idea. You are likely to encounter vigorous opposition, and at the very least you will waste your time. Conciliatory gestures are meaningless and perhaps even insulting, or least taken as insults. Do not expect to find others agreeable or willing to compromise. Commercial transactions are difficult. Failure to agree on a mutually satisfactory price or to resolve other conflicting opinions is apt to stymie progress. This is a time when the words don’t go with the music. Concentration and learning are likely to suffer from too many distractions, mental laziness, or both. Not an auspicious time for success in art and design projects, or to purchase books, luxury items and subscription concert or theater tickets. Traveling is not apt to put you in the company of congenial companions. If it should happen that situations proceed more smoothly than the potential indicates, count yourself fortunate. The best advice is to realize what the negative potentials are and sidestep them whenever and wherever you can.

Transit MERCURY square natal Mars
Aug 25 through Aug 26, exact on Aug 26

Trying to physically get things done during this period is apt to be frustrating. Incorrect information or directions may cause you to be too early or too late to accomplish a certain goal. The car may break down or public transportation delays throw off your travel schedule. Purchase of a car or other equipment may develop snags. Others may say things or use methods that provoke you to anger. Under this influence it is to your ultimate advantage to avoid rash behavior, and to make sure you understand the information you receive. No matter what headaches turn up, literally and figuratively, you are still liable to make measurable progress. You are likely to be more competitive or aggressive, which, in itself, can help you accomplish more. Protect yourself against airborne colds and fever, and take extra precautions when handling electrical equipment and volatile materials.

Transit VENUS square natal Mars
Aug 26 through Aug 27, exact on Aug 27

Competitive spirits are aroused in your current circumstances. As long as you don’t become overly aggressive, or allow others to assume that manner in dealing with you, the potential for excitement and stimulation of a physical nature can lead to some great adventures. You can use the added energy for many things, not the least of which is to burn off calories, accomplish the tasks at hand, and enjoy the stimulation of challenging interactions with the opposite sex. Don’t overreact physically to insult and allow the pursuit of pleasure or revenge to rob you of what might have been just the right prod you needed to get moving. Maturity is needed.

Transit MERCURY opposed natal Sun
Aug 27 through Aug 28, exact on Aug 28

Your ego is apt to be bruised by opposing forces that you encounter during this period. Ideas and opinions that surround you are not likely to be compatible with your own. Neither are they apt to agree with the type of image you like to project or the personal influence you want to exert. Now what? “What” is that you should not waste your efforts trying to get others to change their minds or dismiss their opinions as worthless. No one is going to listen to you. You might try to make some productive use of this unfavorable influence by learning what you can. If you are unable to find an agreeable or productive way of working within a situation or with certain people, be content to work quietly on your own.

Transit MARS square natal Neptune
Aug 26 through Aug 29, exact on Aug 28

Your actions during this period may very well be inspired, but they are not apt to be organized, well-planned or carefully executed. The shortest distance between two points is not likely to be the expected straight line. The present atmosphere is not conducive to logical actions, though you may find plenty of rationalizations for the actions you do take. You will have to make a determined effort if you wish to avoid wasting time and energy. Methods used to accomplish something must depend on intuition and instinct, since there may be little else to go on. Under this influence there is a certain amount of danger due to inattention, or because you may simply be unaware of potentially perilous situations. Laziness is another potential obstacle you may have to overcome.

Transit SUN trine natal Neptune
Aug 27 through Aug 29, exact on Aug 28

A time when others, especially superiors, may be impressed with your imagination, spirituality, and sensitivity. They may also be impressed with your charitable acts or your skills in such particular areas as those that involve photography, swimming, sailing, water sports or therapy, or dancing. With or without the presence of superiors or other people around all the same things may nevertheless be enhanced for you in some way. Activities especially favored now also include covert activities and handling highly confidential matters. Others may be attracted to you, or you to them, by something that seems unattainable or mysterious. This is a time to follow hunches, pay attention to dreams, and allow yourself to become truly inspired spiritually and artistically in whatever way presents itself.

Transit SUN opposed natal Jupiter
Aug 28 through Aug 30, exact on Aug 29

Others will not be inclined to recognize your intellectual efforts or projects. It may be for reasons of their own pride or jealousy; whatever the cause, you are likely to be wasting your time if you try to arouse their interest or admiration. Situations and people you encounter under this influence may be pompous, all show and no substance. There is no productive way to expand your mental horizons or increase your personal status in this atmosphere. An unfavorable time for publishing, religious or political activities, advertising, long-distance travel, and court decisions. The most constructive thing to do is to stay put in your own sphere of influence and attend to routine business.

Transit VENUS opposed natal Sun
Aug 28 through Aug 30, exact on Aug 29

A need to establish your own identity may tempt you to show off. Social events can become nothing more than exercises in name dropping, ostentatious displays of luxury, and similar ego-tripping types of behavior. It is also possible that other people will make determined efforts to impress you in the same manner. Beauty in all forms does not fare well. Refinement and elegance may be smothered by crudeness and gaudiness. Romantic encounters tend to be more a matter of ego satisfaction than emotional commitment. It is not a good time to put yourself in a situation that depends for its success on your popularity and acceptance by others. If you hold any position of leadership you may expect that it will not be generally favored and may even be openly opposed. This influence can pose a threat to the sincerity of values, integrity, principles, relations and interactions with others. However, it does not have to leave a negative mark. You can, for instance, reduce the number of interactions you encounter by working alone or remaining quietly in the background.

Transit SUN sextile natal Pluto
Aug 28 through Aug 30, exact on Aug 29

This period brings opportunity to use the past in some positive way. You may, for example, come across valuable information by reviewing old magazines or doing research. You may get the chance to either collect or repay an old debt or favor. Superiors or those with influence in your life may suggest opportunities that result in better use of your special skills as well as your monetary and other material resources. Under this influence it is advantageous to get rid of what you no longer need or want. If you are not certain of how to recycle or sell your things, it is an opportune period to seek such advice. Take advantage of any chance to renovate your environment and to gain greater control over it. A good time to deal with self-control, psychological analysis, and to get to the bottom of things.

Transit SUN square natal Saturn
Aug 31 through Sep 2, exact on Sep 1

This is a time when hard work, organization, and planning will stand you in good stead. If you have not previously conducted your affairs in this manner, you may now wish that you had. You may not initiate or be in control of the events and circumstances that occur under this influence, but you will nevertheless be called upon to measure up, to take a responsible position in some way. Life may be, or seem to be, more somber than usual. Your timing is off and you are more easily discouraged by problems you may usually regard as minor annoyances. The answer is to forge ahead. Forget instant gratification. Wait for the rewards or real enjoyment to come later.

MommaD

08-21-2008, 05:45 AM

I am dancing a li'l mousie-jig here!

Soulscape, you have added so much, and I am so happy to have another astrologer here. I am reading, and re-reading your comments, and learning from you as well!

I am also in WNY, so might PM you to see how close we are, distance-wise...

House mouse I am so happy for you to have fellow astrologer's to converse with.. Please don't forget us tho. the ones who don't know how to read the charts.. But love to read the work you all do on them.. its so fasinating..

Thanks to all of you.. great work.. hope to see alot more.. :blowkiss:

Neptunian

08-21-2008, 11:10 AM

Soulscape, Welcome:) Nice to see you here, thanks for your comments. Both you and Housemouse have given me much to think about. That BML placement is dreadful.

I just got back from my daughter's Dr. appt - I don't see any news abt. the arraignment. Does anyone know what is going on? I checked the chart again and see that Neptune is in quincunx aspect to the arraignment Ascendent, do you think this might cloak the procedings? Lol, I have Neptune prevalant in my own chart, so am used to the energy -- but I sometimes hate to see it pop up when I am looking for answers!

Has there been discussion on the synastry between little Caylee and Casey? At first glance I notice that the relationship could be disharmonious, and would like to know what you all think of it.

Well, I am going to look around for any news. I can hardly sit still! So nice to be here with every one of you.

Choo_Choo

08-21-2008, 11:37 AM

She's out - 10:30AM

Neptunian

08-21-2008, 11:45 AM

Thank you, Choo Choo

Neptunian

08-21-2008, 12:10 PM

Release chart, 1030 am in Orlando 21 Aug 08
Moon (representative of the public) in 7th HS at 27:36* Aries. Sabien Symbol for this degree is "A large disappointed audience" How appropriate.

Liz

08-21-2008, 12:13 PM

Casey arrived at home at 11:03 AM, if that information has any relevance.

whatUthinking!?

08-21-2008, 12:17 PM

Lovejac

08-21-2008, 12:31 PM

i was sure hoping something would happen and she wouldn't get out. by the way this is my first post on this thread. and housemouse and all of you, i would like to thank you for your patience and help with your explanations, as i don't know the first thing about astrology

Welcome from another newbie!! I was lurking for quite a while, when I saw yhis thread I was so intrigued by housemouse, I HAD to join.

MysteryAddict

08-21-2008, 02:23 PM

Beginner here raising hand with a question.............

Soulscape..

Do you have a time for Casey's chart?
If not how did you assign houses to her?

Thanks

housemouse

08-21-2008, 02:33 PM

Good question, MysteryAddict. Perhaps Soulscape misunderstood, and thought that the chart I posted was Casey's birthtime. It wasn't. I do not know Casey's birthtime, so used "noon" to create the chart, which is done by some astrologers when the birth time isn't known.

Others will use a solar chart, with the degree of the Sun on the ascendant. Maybe Soulscape did that?

Some of you have asked about Caylee's chart. Because of this case, I just ordered "Io Child" from Time Cycles Research. It generates a natal interpretation of the birth chart, and I am hoping to be able to post it here, so you can see what it has to say.

But, it is very long. 23 pages! How and where to post it? Should I post just parts of it?

I also can post the computer generated analysis of the relationship between Casey and Caylee, but we would have to ignore anything referring to Casey' Moon, ascendant, and midheaven. It again would be very long, but I could select the most "interesting" parts.

P.S. Can I post a "html" file to Photobucket? And, if any of you want to download the charts, here is my photobucket address.

http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/housemouse43/

Let me know. At least these will give you an idea of what really good astrology software can do. Time Cycles Research really creates beautiful charts, and their interpretations are the best I have seen.

housemouse

08-21-2008, 02:46 PM

Maybe I can post Caylee's "Io Child" interpretation in chunks. So as not to have 23 pages in one post. Then you all can download and staple the pages together.

here goes the first section:

An Astrological Profile for Caylee

Childhood is a time filled with promise. A new life, fresh beginnings, and for parents and teachers -- it’s the ultimate challenge. How many times have parents wondered why kids did not come with instruction manuals?! There’s a secret: they do!

Each person is born at a special time, on a certain day and place. Astrologers use this information to chart the positions of the planets relative to the date, time and place of birth. This chart, or horoscope, provides an invaluable and exceptional view of the potentials, drives and needs for Caylee. This is the "cosmic guidebook" for each individual! The patterns of the planets, Sun and Moon are unique and notable for a developing child, since in childhood these pictures are seen in a different light. Children are changing rapidly, and, in the process of becoming themselves, need special love and guidance. Developmental Astrology incorporates the basic concepts of astrology within the framework of the early years of life.

This astrological report can be used as a guidepost, and provides a few hints and insights into the unique qualities of this child. Please remember that everyone -- including a child -- has free will. So while an astrological report can give you some valuable information, it does not indicate a fixed set of limited options. Of course environment also has its influence, but by understanding the significant drives and needs represented by Caylee’s chart, you can better appreciate her uniqueness, and, hopefully, guide her to fulfill her potentials in the healthiest possible way!

I. Basic Underlying Personality Traits

There are several layers to an astrological chart, just as there are layers to the personality. In astrology, the building blocks of the chart are the planets, signs and houses of the chart. You’ll see these terms scattered throughout this report. In a nutshell, the planets (plus the Sun and Moon) represent specific energies and drives. These drives each have a different purpose in the developing personality. The twelve signs of the zodiac represent qualities, characteristics and traits. The houses (the twelve divisions of the chart wheel or circle) symbolize the facets of a person’s life. In the drama of life, the planets represent the actors, the signs show the roles the actors play, their costumes and props, and the houses illustrate the setting and scene of the play.

Using the building blocks of the zodiac signs, there’s yet another layer. Each sign falls into categories called elements and modes. There are four elements -- fire, earth, air and water; and there are three modes (or action models) -- cardinal, fixed and mutable. There’s a way to distill the chart into its dominant element and mode of expression, and this leading denominator gives a powerful clue to the strongest underlying personality traits.

In Caylee’s chart, there is an outstanding quality of Fire. Having a powerful influence of fiery energy, Caylee is likely to be highly energetic. She needs plenty of room and ample opportunities to assert herself. Sports may be a strong interest, but, at the least, staying active is important. Encourage Caylee to funnel these active needs by providing plenty of options, from early sports, like gymnastics or dance classes to recreational activities that involve physical assertion. Babies with strong fire can be irritable if they are not given ample opportunities to get rid of physical stress (yes, babies experience stress, too!). Basically, Caylee loves play, and fiery temperament babies and young children need plenty of active time with Mom and Dad. Even when she grows up, play will be important, and she will be happiest when anything feels more like play than work! There can also be selfishness with the fiery quality. One thing to keep in mind with Caylee is the fact that you must tend a fire: either to keep it burning or to keep it from blazing out of control.

With little or lacking Water, Caylee can have difficulty understanding and accepting the emotional needs of others -- and her own emotional needs! Encourage Caylee to accept and express her feelings more openly through creative and artistic endeavors. Music can be especially helpful. However, getting in touch with water itself -- swimming, going to the beach, or enjoying an aquarium can help, too. Talk openly with Caylee about learning to trust and value intuition, since this will help her feel more comfortable with inner sensibilities.

There are three modes in astrology. These determine how a particular sign manifests its energy. These qualities -- known as cardinal, fixed and mutable -- have special meanings in astrology. Each sign or the zodiac correlates with one of three modes of action.

Caylee’s chart shows a strong emphasis of Fixed signs. She can feel very stabilizing, but can also be extremely stubborn! At its best, the fixed quality indicates a need to preserve and to maintain the status quo. She can be consistent and patient, and will appreciate and respect consistency from parents and teachers. There can also be inflexibility, resistance and obsessiveness that can be rather difficult to manage or accept. Caylee really needs to finish things, and can become upset if too many things are left undone..

In summary, if an element or mode is low or lacking, there’s no reason to be highly concerned, but you can find creative ways to help Caylee compensate. Focusing on what the lack of any mode or element might mean for the child can prove beneficial, although this should not be interpreted as an actual "personality deficiency." Rather, understand that this could indicate either a tendency to overcompensate or to seek what is lacking in some way. As your child matures, you might discover that she is drawn to others who seem to possess the expressions of a quality that seems to be lacking in her own chart.

Soulscape

08-21-2008, 04:15 PM

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the warm welcomes, I am excited to be here!

Regarding the chart I commented on, that was not Casey's chart. It was the chart cast for Arraignment this morning: 8/21/08, 8:45am, Orlando Florida. Housemouse uploaded that chart I think on the page before my comments. I assigned the 1st house to Casey (Virgo), making her ruler MERCURY.

I also do not have Casey's birthtime. I have looked at three charts for her: (1) a chart with a 12:00 noon birthtime; (2) a SOLAR chart using whole houses; and (3) what I call a **divinitory** chart based on an intuitive hunch.

I will make some comments on Casey's chart either later this evening or sometime tomorrow. There are a couple other charts concerning this case that I find highly interesting. One is the LAST SEEN by Grandpa George (June 16, 2008, 12:50 pm, Orlando, FL) and the other is the third phone call to 911 by Grandma Cindy (July 15, 2008, 9:41 pm, Orlando FL). Both these dates and times are documented. Grandpa George was adamant about the date & time he last saw little Caylee per his interview on one of Greta's OTR shows I watched. The time of Grandma Cindy's third call to 911 was logged in on the OC sheriff's dept. website. Those two timed charts plus Caylee's timed chart (as seen on the wall in her bedroom during another Greta OTR interview) are MOST IMPORTANT to this case, IMO.....

On another note, I wonder if anyone associated with LE might possibly be able to provide Casey's accurate and complete birth data, including TIME OF BIRTH..... it could provide some very helpful clues here...

I will check in later & thanks again to all who said hello http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif
Smile

~~Soulscape

Lovejac

08-21-2008, 04:15 PM

Thank you housemouse! I for one will definitely be reading and trying to learn, after I get my book this weekend!:blowkiss:

housemouse

08-21-2008, 04:21 PM

Thank you housemouse! I for one will definitely be reading and trying to learn, after I get my book this weekend!:blowkiss:

Lovejac, please let me know if you need any charts. Would be happy to send them to you!

housemouse

08-21-2008, 04:33 PM

Soulscape

08-21-2008, 04:49 PM

Soulscape, I haven't done much work on either George's statement about the last time he saw Casey and Caylee, because I am not certain he is telling the truth.

But, Cindy's last call would be a very good chart to study.

Will you post it, or should I. We have to do our best to speak "English" rather than "Astrologese", for the benefit of those who don't speak that language "yet"!

I find that is the hardest thing to do. Our techniques can be very hard for non-astrologers to understand, so I try to stick to the basics.

But, on an arcane astrological topic... have you done any work with the asteroids? I haven't but a book I just purchased "Forensic Astrology" seems to sue these extensively. There is a list of a few of the asteroids in the back, and I notice that "Medea" is at 24 58 Sag on June 12, and is at 23 02 Sag on June 22nd.

In mythology, Medea killed her children. Casey's Mars is at 25 38 Sag, and her Uranus is at 22 21 Sag. Scary!

But, I really don't have any experience with using asteroids, so this is new to me.

Hi Housemouse,

Please go ahead and post the #3 phone call to 911 chart (July 15, 2008, 9:41 pm, Orlando FL) --- I do not seem to have permission to include attachments.

And yes, I work with some of the Asteroids, as well as the Arabic Parts (also called Lots), and some of the Transneptunians, and BLACK MOON LILITH. I use whatever works, whatever is appropriate. I don't always use all this stuff in one chart. In forensic horary astrology I find the Part of Death is often telling (but not always). The MARS/SATURN midpoint (death indicator) should be looked at. I find BLACK MOON LILITH is often prominent in death charts. There are other things I look at. I don't want to overwhelm anyone right off the get-go. I will try to speak in English when I make my comments and explain what I am doing and how I am doing it to the best of my ability.

Thanks,
Soulscape

housemouse

08-21-2008, 04:58 PM

Would there be any benefit in looking at a chart for the time Casey got out of jail this am?

If so, how should we look at it?

Soulscape

08-21-2008, 05:50 PM

Housemouse,

I looked at that chart. I also looked at the chart for 11:03 am which supposedly was the time Casey actually arrived at her house. Neither chart struck me as being particularly more informative than the original 8:45 am Arraignment chart. both charts showed Libra rising, making VENUS her significator. The 10:30 am chart (her release) showed VENUS still in the 12th house of Imprisonment. The 11:03 am chart (when she arrived home) showed her significator (again, VENUS since Libra was rising) out of the 12th House of prison and into the 11th House. Some one made that awesome comment about the Sabian Symbol for the MOON's (the public) degree, a huge disappointment (or something similar, I don't have the quote in front of me...).

Maybe the huge shock (Uranus exactly on the Descendant of the original 8:45 am Arraignment chart) was how her release shocked and outraged all of us. Maybe we just weren't expecting it. We were expecting LE to slap more charges on her & keep her in the poky.....

JMO,
Thanks,
Soulscape

housemouse

08-21-2008, 06:01 PM

Thanks for taking the look, Soulscape. I didn't see anything particularly enlightening either.

I am wondering how we could research/then speculate if and when LE might charge her with more than they have. I am not sure where to look, which chart might be most informative, aside from Casey's, of course.

If Casey's is the best one, how do we deal with no birth-time? Which planet(s) would we look to, in your opinion?

This is a good way to explain to others how we work to figure out these things, as long as they all remember that the charts are good, but the humans trying to interpret them can be, and often are, unable to figure out what is staring us in the face!

I think I will check Cindy's transits to see how she is holding up with Casey at home. Come to think of it, should check George, too!

Blink34

08-21-2008, 06:02 PM

Thanks for taking the look, Soulscape. I didn't see anything particularly enlightening either.

I am wondering how we could research/then speculate if and when LE might charge her with more than they have. I am not sure where to look, which chart might be most informative, aside from Casey's, of course.

If Casey's is the best one, how do we deal with no birth-time? Which planet(s) would we look to, in your opinion?

This is a good way to explain to others how we work to figure out these things, as long as they all remember that the charts are good, but the humans trying to interpret them can be, and often are, unable to figure out what is staring us in the face!

Can I make a suggestion, my dearest House Mouse? Do you have what you need to do Jesse Grund's chart?

housemouse

08-21-2008, 06:18 PM

Alas, Blink. I have no info on Jesse G.

But, it would be very interesting to cast a chart for him, to see how he links to Casey, and if there are any links to Caylee that might suggest parenthood. Of course, these would be very speculative if we do not have his birth time.

Usually, there are links between children's charts and those of their parents. Frequently Mars can be found in children's charts linked to personal points of their mothers. This is particularly true in C-Section births.

Midpoints are also useful, as family patterns tend to repeat. I find this very interesting, both from a practical point of view, and also from a philosophical/metaphysical one.

But, I try to stay away from the metaphysical. Just too much for a li'l housemouse to comprehend how it all works!

housemouse

08-21-2008, 06:24 PM

Blink34

08-21-2008, 06:55 PM

After posting that last, I started thinking about whether it is ethical or fair to invade Jesse G's. privacy in this way.

Just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should.

That said, if Jessie G. comes up at trial, as a witness, then maybe it is a different ball game?

Jesse G is already a known witness and testified at the bond hearing, since I am very new to what you do, I should say I am not believing he is the father of Caylee, I am just interested in what a chart would say for him.. I;ll let you do one for me if it can stay anonymous if that seems fair (I say timidly)
Regardless, if you think it a bad idea I completely understand.
You know I have great respect for you and am just trying to learn about what you do :blowkiss:

Lovejac

08-21-2008, 07:12 PM

Has this chart for the this phone call been posted yet? I'm dying to know and can't seem to find it.:waitasec:

Hi Housemouse,

Please go ahead and post the #3 phone call to 911 chart (July 15, 2008, 9:41 pm, Orlando FL) --- I do not seem to have permission to include attachments.

And yes, I work with some of the Asteroids, as well as the Arabic Parts (also called Lots), and some of the Transneptunians, and BLACK MOON LILITH. I use whatever works, whatever is appropriate. I don't always use all this stuff in one chart. In forensic horary astrology I find the Part of Death is often telling (but not always). The MARS/SATURN midpoint (death indicator) should be looked at. I find BLACK MOON LILITH is often prominent in death charts. There are other things I look at. I don't want to overwhelm anyone right off the get-go. I will try to speak in English when I make my comments and explain what I am doing and how I am doing it to the best of my ability.

Thanks,
Soulscape

housemouse

08-21-2008, 07:12 PM

If you think it is ok with the Mods, then post his birth date here, and the time, if you have it!

I will do his chart, post it here for Neptunian and Soulscape, so we all can comment on the connections we see.

housemouse

08-21-2008, 07:18 PM

Sorry, Soulscape! Somehow I missed your post. Here is the post for the 3rd 911 call from Cindy.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/housemouse43/CindysPhoneCall.jpg

Hi Housemouse,

Please go ahead and post the #3 phone call to 911 chart (July 15, 2008, 9:41 pm, Orlando FL) --- I do not seem to have permission to include attachments.

And yes, I work with some of the Asteroids, as well as the Arabic Parts (also called Lots), and some of the Transneptunians, and BLACK MOON LILITH. I use whatever works, whatever is appropriate. I don't always use all this stuff in one chart. In forensic horary astrology I find the Part of Death is often telling (but not always). The MARS/SATURN midpoint (death indicator) should be looked at. I find BLACK MOON LILITH is often prominent in death charts. There are other things I look at. I don't want to overwhelm anyone right off the get-go. I will try to speak in English when I make my comments and explain what I am doing and how I am doing it to the best of my ability.

Thanks,
Soulscape

housemouse

08-21-2008, 07:30 PM

I decided to look at the Midpoints for that phone call! Very interesting! Look at Mercury and Neptune so close, and check all the midpoints within 1 and one half degree of Mercury and Neptune!

Nice picture of what was going on. These are all around 08 in the sort. And, notice the Sun/Moon midpoint. It is out of orb, but might still be relevant to the situation, considering the earlier phone calls?

I haven't checked the rest of the planets and midpoints within orb, nor have I checked these against natal charts. Getting a bit tired...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/housemouse43/CindyPhonecallmps.jpg

housemouse

08-21-2008, 07:39 PM

Thought you might find this interesting. Remember, it is just a "generic computer generated forecast"

Transit PLUTO square natal Mars
Aug 21 through Aug 27, 2008

This long-term influence is likely to bring difficult but not insurmountable circumstances, the nature of which involves overcoming those with more power than your own, situations that involve a new start or regaining something that was lost, or dealing with the threatened loss of your own power or influence. Obstacles that stand in your way at this time are likely to be the result of some type of wrongful physical actions. If you have physically abused others or yourself this must be corrected. If you have engaged in dishonest actions, they too, must be corrected. Wasting time and physical energy in the past now comes back to haunt you. Circumstances may require that the methods you use to perform your tasks and responsibilities must be more efficient. Male relationships or your contacts and activities that involve men may be troublesome. Your competitive spirit and aggressiveness is apt to be tested. This is a period when much strength and other benefits may be gained, but not without some frustrations or setbacks that test your determination to succeed.

Transit SUN square natal Mercury
Aug 21 through Aug 22, exact on Aug 22

You may be kept busier than usual with writing or other communications. Others may seek your advice or opinion and you have to scramble for the information they require. Pay closer attention to what you hear or read. It is likely to contain something worth knowing. Those in charge may criticize your ideas and opinions, or perhaps their objection concerns the manner in which you choose to express yourself. Take such discouragement in stride because it doesn’t necessarily mean you are wrong. If your ideas are solid and well-organized, all you need is patience, determination, and the willingness to try various approaches in presenting them to others until something works. Avoid indulging in false promises, boasting, and misleading information, and do not allow yourself to become frustrated or fooled by others who do. When in traffic you can expect to encounter arrogant or careless drivers.

Transit SUN conjoined natal Pluto
Aug 22 through Aug 23, exact on Aug 22

You may be very intense, propelled by the urge to get to the bottom of motivations and understand the psychological reason for your ego drives. If normally strong-willed, you may be even more formidable in going after something today. If not particularly strong-willed, you may suddenly want to be. You resent others who are manipulative or have more power or control than yourself. Self-control, power and the use of power are apt to become more interesting concepts than usual or they may have a part to play in today’s scenario.

Transit MERCURY square natal Saturn
Aug 23 through Aug 24, exact on Aug 24

You may not know exactly what to do with the information, ideas, or methods you encounter during this period. A particular item may seem very interesting and even valuable but trying to use or apply it, you run into difficulties or restrictions of one kind or another. It may simply be a case of not being able to put the idea or method to practical use for the time being, perhaps even for a long period of time, but someday it will come in handy. Under this influence attempts at organization and planning may be hampered, either by too much perfectionism or lack of time. Even if you are usually very efficient and organized, the very document, book, or other item you need cannot be located. You may be required to redo or complete a task you thought was finished. Eventually everything will get straightened out and you will have some progress to show for your efforts.

Transit VENUS square natal Saturn
Aug 24 through Aug 25, exact on Aug 24

What seems like rejection may not be, or what may actually be rejection can work to your advantage. Unhappiness at being unable to afford the cost of something may go much deeper than regretting the lack of money. Gaining love and affection or something that you want will not be easy, and, once it is achieved, you may not want the accompanying responsibilities. Socializing is difficult. You are not necessarily more antisocial but since current circumstances may prevent you from being able to enjoy yourself, you prefer to be alone. Under this influence what seems most attractive may turn out to be the least desirable. In return for cooperation or favors you seek, you must be willing to give something of equal value in return-- otherwise you may get nothing at all or a poor imitation of what you wanted. Overworry is more than possible, especially related to legal matters, romance, impending social engagements, or debates. The final result is apt to be success, but whether all goes smoothly because or in spite of the fact that you worried so much is debatable.

Transit MERCURY opposed natal Mars
Aug 27 through Aug 28

Information and ideas may lead to incorrect actions during this period. Either the information itself is erroneous or you misinterpret what it means. You are apt to go out and do exactly the opposite of what you have been told--or having correctly followed instructions, it turns out you should have done exactly the opposite. Either way the results are not likely to be happy or successful. You tend to act too rashly or fail to ascertain certain details which results in equally undesirable consequences. This is not a favorable time for the purchase or sale of a car and electrical or mechanical equipment, nor is it fortuitous to take a trip. Under this unfortunate influence potentials for travel include physical danger, equipment breakdown, and delays or cancellation.

housemouse

08-21-2008, 08:54 PM

Transit SATURN square natal Saturn
Aug 21 through Aug 21, 2008

There is little flexibility in your current circumstances. The key is to find the little that is there. People and situations you encounter are too much alike, imposing too many of the same restrictions, fears, or formalities to allow for new growth or overwhelming success. The positive side is that it is only temporary and should not be allowed to drastically interfere with your plans and goals.

Transit PLUTO square natal Sun
Aug 21 through Aug 27

This long-term influence is likely to bring difficult but not insurmountable circumstances, the nature of which involves overcoming those with more power than your own, a new start or regaining something that was lost, or dealing with the threatened loss of your own power or influence. This is a period when much strength and other benefits may be gained but not without some frustrations or setbacks that test your inner drive and determination, humble your egotistical attitudes and ambitions, and challenge your integrity and generosity.

Transit JUPITER square natal Venus
Aug 21 through Aug 27

Values and priorities get confused in this period. It can result in either being the perpetrator or the victim of shameless social climbing, ostentatiousness, laziness, wastefulness, and overindulgence. Being successful with regard to a partnership and other alliances, joint ventures, social events, and romance does not promise to be an easy matter, but there is nevertheless the potential for progress or even success if you choose to persevere. Legal matters and negotiating contracts and other agreements during this period may in the end, turn to your advantage, but self-serving goals in the guise of concessions or other snags might have to be dealt with first.

Transit MERCURY square natal Uranus
Aug 23 through Aug 24, exact on Aug 23

Since your ideas about what’s different or unique may be at odds with other people’s notions, a certain amount of discussion and clarification becomes necessary. During this period you may find yourself a little out of synch with those who are trying to communicate with you, either because you are not in your usual location or following your normal schedule, or because they aren’t. Under this influence you either understand or approach most things in a nonpersonal, societal way and thus misinterpret what others want you to understand on a personal level, or, others take what you say in a personal way when your only intention was to discuss the broader societal implications of some issue.

Transit VENUS square natal Uranus
Aug 23 through Aug 24, exact on Aug 24

Interactions of all kinds; romantic, social, business, friendships and even fleeting encounters with such people as salesclerks or bank tellers-- can have a way of putting you in touch with the values and social mores of your own generation rather than what is currently fashionable. It can work in many different ways and on many different levels. You may, for instance, be wearing a certain style of clothing and find yourself among those dressed in fashions that differ strikingly from your own. Your interactions with others may also differ strikingly enough to make social events somewhat awkward. Any of these potential circumstances can end up being pleasant experiences, even if they are initially uncomfortable. Others are apt to eventually come around to finding you attractive and interesting, and you are able to succeed at something because of your uniqueness not in spite of it. Coordinating group activities is apt to be frustrating but if you rise to the challenge, your efforts may produce viable results.

Transit MERCURY opposed natal Mercury
Aug 24 through Aug 24, exact on Aug 24

Attempts to mesh people and ideas together in some sort of meaningful way are useless for the time being. You may become very discouraged coping with diverse opinions and people running off in opposite directions. You may hear or read about various ideas on a certain subject but these ideas may not agree with each other or answer your questions. What is worse, they may be in total conflict with your own thinking. There is no mechanism for the easy flow or exchange of communications. People keep changing their minds, or you do. No one agrees on a price, a time to meet, or the best way to reach a destination. Trying to teach or trying to learn is difficult at best.

Transit VENUS opposed natal Mercury
Aug 24 through Aug 25, exact on Aug 25

Rudeness or total lack of communication is a viable potential during this period. Presenting your thoughts and ideas to others is not a good idea. You are likely to encounter vigorous opposition, and at the very least you will waste your time. Conciliatory gestures are meaningless and perhaps even insulting, or least taken as insults. Do not expect to find others agreeable or willing to compromise. Commercial transactions are difficult. Failure to agree on a mutually satisfactory price or to resolve other conflicting opinions is apt to stymie progress. This is a time when the words don’t go with the music. Concentration and learning are likely to suffer from too many distractions, mental laziness, or both. Not an auspicious time for success in art and design projects, or to purchase books, luxury items and subscription concert or theater tickets. Traveling is not apt to put you in the company of congenial companions. If it should happen that situations proceed more smoothly than the potential indicates, count yourself fortunate. The best advice is to realize what the negative potentials are and sidestep them whenever and wherever you can.

Transit MERCURY square natal Mars
Aug 25 through Aug 26, exact on Aug 26

Trying to physically get things done during this period is apt to be frustrating. Incorrect information or directions may cause you to be too early or too late to accomplish a certain goal. The car may break down or public transportation delays throw off your travel schedule. Purchase of a car or other equipment may develop snags. Others may say things or use methods that provoke you to anger. Under this influence it is to your ultimate advantage to avoid rash behavior, and to make sure you understand the information you receive. No matter what headaches turn up, literally and figuratively, you are still liable to make measurable progress. You are likely to be more competitive or aggressive, which, in itself, can help you accomplish more. Protect yourself against airborne colds and fever, and take extra precautions when handling electrical equipment and volatile materials.

Transit VENUS square natal Mars
Aug 26 through Aug 27, exact on Aug 27

Competitive spirits are aroused in your current circumstances. As long as you don’t become overly aggressive, or allow others to assume that manner in dealing with you, the potential for excitement and stimulation of a physical nature can lead to some great adventures. You can use the added energy for many things, not the least of which is to burn off calories, accomplish the tasks at hand, and enjoy the stimulation of challenging interactions with the opposite sex. Don’t overreact physically to insult and allow the pursuit of pleasure or revenge to rob you of what might have been just the right prod you needed to get moving. Maturity is needed.

Transit MARS square natal Neptune
Aug 27 through Aug 28

Your actions during this period may very well be inspired, but they are not apt to be organized, well-planned or carefully executed. The shortest distance between two points is not likely to be the expected straight line. The present atmosphere is not conducive to logical actions, though you may find plenty of rationalizations for the actions you do take. You will have to make a determined effort if you wish to avoid wasting time and energy. Methods used to accomplish something must depend on intuition and instinct, since there may be little else to go on. Under this influence there is a certain amount of danger due to inattention, or because you may simply be unaware of potentially perilous situations. Laziness is another potential obstacle you may have to overcome.

Transit MERCURY opposed natal Sun
Aug 27 through Aug 28

Your ego is apt to be bruised by opposing forces that you encounter during this period. Ideas and opinions that surround you are not likely to be compatible with your own. Neither are they apt to agree with the type of image you like to project or the personal influence you want to exert. Now what? “What” is that you should not waste your efforts trying to get others to change their minds or dismiss their opinions as worthless. No one is going to listen to you. You might try to make some productive use of this unfavorable influence by learning what you can. If you are unable to find an agreeable or productive way of working within a situation or with certain people, be content to work quietly on your own.

Soulscape

08-21-2008, 09:01 PM

Housemouse,

When you get a chance, can you please provide a simplified explanation to the group how to read a 45 degree midpoint sort. For example, what does it mean that NEPTUNE and MERCURY show 8 degrees in the sort?

Thanks,
Soulscape

Lovejac

08-21-2008, 09:49 PM

:waitasec: Duh... can someone explain what this means to someone who knows nothing about this. Soulscape, Housemouse, Neptunian, I apprciate that all of yall are so patient. I promise I am trying to learn. Thanks to all of you for your incredible talent.:blowkiss:

I decided to look at the Midpoints for that phone call! Very interesting! Look at Mercury and Neptune so close, and check all the midpoints within 1 and one half degree of Mercury and Neptune!

Nice picture of what was going on. These are all around 08 in the sort. And, notice the Sun/Moon midpoint. It is out of orb, but might still be relevant to the situation, considering the earlier phone calls?

I haven't checked the rest of the planets and midpoints within orb, nor have I checked these against natal charts. Getting a bit tired...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/housemouse43/CindyPhonecallmps.jpg

housemouse

08-21-2008, 09:50 PM

Ok, a 45 degree midpoint sort is a way to easily see the "hard aspects" between the planets and the midpoints.

Midpoints are the middle points between two planets, and where they join together in action when activated by transits to a natal chart, or when they influence planets by aspecting them in a natal chart.

Some astrologers prefer to use 90 degree sorts, as these show the conjunctions, oppositions, and squares to the midpoints. Others will use the semi-squares and sesquiquadrates to the midpoints, believing that these give more information. This latter is a 45 degree sort.

So, if Mercury and Neptune are in one of these aspects, (conjunct/opposition/square/semi-square/sesquiquadrate) they will show up at the same degree in the 45 degree sort, and it is a quick way of knowing that these two are in a hard aspect to one another, and by looking at the midpoints within a one and a half degree orb to Mercury and Neptune, we can get more information about the event or the effect of the event that we are researching.

So, in the chart for Cindy's third phone call to LE, we see that there are many midpoints within orb of Mercury and Neptune.

These are: Ascendant/Midheaven, Sun/Uranus, Jupiter/Pluto, Moon/Jupiter, Node/Midheaven

Did that help? After all the calculations, all we have to do is to put the keywords to the combinations.

Mercury and Neptune...

what keywords come to mind regarding the event? Give it a try!

housemouse

08-21-2008, 09:55 PM

I only covered the midpoints to Mercury and Neptune in the midpoint sort of Cindy's phone call. There are others that can be examined to give more information about the event.

But, i am tired, and have to go do "nurse" duty for my husband...

housemouse

08-21-2008, 10:21 PM

Worrying that my explanation isn't good enough!

What a 90 degree sort does is to take all 360 degrees, and divide them by 4, which is 90 degrees. Then each planet is placed on one of the 90 degrees, depending on where it falls in the 360 degrees.

So, any planet (or midpoint) falling within the first 90 degrees of the Zodiac, 0 Aries through 29 Gemini will be put on it's proper degree between 0 and 89(each sign has 30 degrees). Next, any planet or midpoint falling between 0 Cancer and 29 Virgo will be placed in it's proper place between 0 and 89, and the same with Libra through Sagittarius, Capricorn through Pisces.

To do a 45 degree sort, we do exactly the same thing, but sort them all up within 45 degrees, starting at 0 Aries, going through 15 Taurus, then starting all over again at 15 Taurus for another 45 degrees, etc, etc,.

Did I write that well enough to make sense?

It is sort of an astrological shortcut to see all the hard aspects and midpoints in a chart, or in transits to a chart.

Neptunian

08-21-2008, 10:31 PM

miss lisa

08-21-2008, 10:34 PM

Neptunian

08-21-2008, 10:36 PM

Housemouse, your explanation is good:)

I remember the frustration when beginning to learn about these. (I wanted to hit myself with a hammer) Pictures helped some.. So did going around reading everything available.

housemouse

08-21-2008, 10:37 PM

housemouse

08-21-2008, 10:52 PM

So what does that mean to those of us that don't understand at your level?

OK, here is a start.

Mercury, among other things, rules communication, like telephones.

Neptune, among other things, rules confusion, mystery, deception, a lie, fraud.

Put those two together, in hard aspect, and what do you have?

Now, next let's consider the Ascendant/Midheaven hard aspect to Mercury and Neptune.

we get "exchange of thoughts, emotional suffering, being surrounded by deceitful or bad people

Next, the Sun/Uranus midpoint:

quick acting, sudden flashes of cognition, in isolated cases, disintegration of the body, death

Next, the Jupiter/Pluto midpoint:

a propaganda campaign, the inclination to deceive others, to cheat and seduce people.

Hope this is enough to give you a feel for how midpoints can illuminate a hard aspect between two planets that we otherwise might not notice in looking at the chart.

You see, Mercury and Neptune are in a hard aspect, but it is a sesquiquadrate (they are 135 degrees apart), and not usually noticed as much as oppositions and squares. The midpoints that are also in hard aspect give us more information about what exactly is going on in and around the phone call.

Neptunian

08-21-2008, 11:26 PM

I see there is a thread started that discusses why this case, and not others, have gathered so much attention.

I do not want to post to that thread because I am not sure it would be welcome, but I will put it here.

It is because the "Aries point" is so involved with this case. And, I am hoping that Netpunian or Soulscape will come along and explain why better than I can.

There are certain events that just get greater attention than others, and there is usually an astrological reason. The Aries point is one, archetypes are another.
This event hits both, in my humble opinion. It also holds up a mirror of what we have become as a culture, and what we will excuse or tolerate in the name of personal freedom to choose.

I would agree with this. Pluto has been hovering around the Aries point of late, and I think this is felt at some deep level by humanity. In mythology, Pluto - or Hades- is the god of the underworld who kidnapped the maiden Persephone and made her his bride so she had to stay in Hades for a time. This is every parent's worst nightmare.. So a young girl, our Caylee, who is missing at this time is sure to capture the world's attention. (Don't you wish there would be this much attention for EACH and EVERY missing child?)

When Neptune, god of the seas was hitting this point, there was the great tsunami and Katrina.

housemouse

08-21-2008, 11:44 PM

Excellent points, Neptunian!

Also, the recent eclipse had Neptune in the cross-hairs. I am not that good on eclipses, but somehow make a link to all the rain in Florida with that eclipse.

I think I read that the effects will be felt for about three months. Am I right?

If so, everyone watch for news events that are full of Neptune kinda stuff...

Soulscape

08-21-2008, 11:50 PM

OK, Housemouse & Neptunian (and other astrologers following this thread), I think we need to keep in mind some of our techniques are a little advanced for many followers of this thread. What we want to accomplish is to show how we work up a chart and how we come to the conclusions we come to, without overwhelming everyone with all the technicalities.

To the beginner astrologers, rusty astrologers and non-astrologers, please keep in mind ANY astrologer --- the 3 of us included --- can misunderstand or misinterpret the message of the stars, because we are humans and not perfect.

I am going to forego midpoints for the time being, first because they are not my specialty and second because Housemouse can explain them way better than me.

Housemouse, I am going to ask you to please create a biwheel showing Caylee's natal chart in the inner ring and this #3 phone call by Cindy to 911. If interested people will print the three charts: (1) Caylee's natal chart posted a few pages back, (2) the #3 phone call chart posted above, and (3) the biwheel showing Caylee's natal as inner ring and the #3 phone call to 911 as the outer ring, and if you keep the charts in front of you, I think it will be easier for you to follow my commentary.

Forensic astrology is complicated and astrologers approach it differently. My approach is to use horary astrology techniques. This is called forensic horary astrology. A horary chart answers a question, such as **Where is my lost cat?** or **Will I get the job I applied for?** A forensic horary chart answers questions such as **Where is the missing person?** ... **Is the missing person dead or alive?** ...**Was the missing person murdered?** .... **Was it an accident?** ... **Was it suicide?** .... **Who is the perp?** and other such questions.

The most frustrating thing about forensic astrology is not having accurately timed charts. I hesitated getting involved with this case for a good 10 days after I heard about it because there was so much conflicting information out there. First it was said Caylee went missing on 6/9, then 6/15. Now supposedly 6/16 at 12:50 pm (supposedly last time George Anthony saw his granddaughter). Then there was the supposed phone call from Jesse Grund stating he HEARD Casey yelling at Caylee and was **100% sure** he heard Caylee in the background on 6/24. Later he retracted that statement saying he couldn't be positive he really heard Caylee during that phone call.

This is all extremely frustrating to the astrologer, who needs accurately timed charts in order to get the real picture.

The big break for astrologers came when OC Sheriffs dept posted the log on the phone calls from Grandma Cindy to the police. According to their web log, Cindy Anthony made the third phone call to LE at 9:41 pm on 7/15/08. This was the call where she told them her granddaughter was missing and that they found the car and it smelled like there was a dead body in the damn car. A Chart cast for this time is called the Police Report. It is the time the fact that a person is missing is phoned into the police.

The next huge break for astrologers came when Greta VS interviewed Cindy for OTR in Cindy's home and Cindy took Greta into Caylee's bedroom. The cameraperson zoomed into Caylee's birth certificate hanging framed on the bedroom wall!!

So now we have two very good timed charts. Another chart that will be worth looking at would be the chart cast for the start of the **flurry of phone calls** made by Casey Anthony, starting at 3:03 pm on 6/16/08 (according to phone records).

But for now, to get started, I would like to look at Caylee's natal, the #3 phone call to LE, and the biwheel showing both. We need to start somewhere, and I think there are clues in the timed event charts as well as Caylee's timed natal.

Later, if you are interested, we can also look at Cindy and Casey's charts but they are not timed which somewhat limits our ability to judge them . Still, there are aspects in those charts that would not change regardless of time of birth, so they are worth looking at.

If anyone has an alternative way to approach this they think makes more sense, please say so. Otherwise, I will start a commentary on what I see in the charts and how I came to my judgements. I will try to keep jargon to a minimum.

For the record, IMO, astrology is not a belief or a religion or even a philosophy --- it is a LANGUAGE. Star language. Astrologers are people who attempt, with varying degrees of success, to understand/ translate star language.

The stars don't lie. People lie, but the stars don't lie. The truth is in there, whether we as astrologers can see it/ understand it/ interpret it correctly or not.

Thanks,
Soulscape

housemouse

08-21-2008, 11:57 PM

Good explanation, Soulscape! I am eager to see what your horary charts show, and also interested in learning more about the technique!

Will be posting the bi-wheel as soon as I can generate it, and get it up on photobucket!

housemouse

08-22-2008, 12:08 AM

if it isn't large enough, try my photobucket page, I have tried to title stuff so you can find the chart you want.

http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/housemouse43/

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/housemouse43/Cindyscall.jpg

housemouse

08-22-2008, 12:11 AM

and, to save you some time, here is the Synastry with orbs and aspects... it shows the aspects between Caylee's chart and Cindy's call chart

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/housemouse43/SynastryOrbsAspects.jpg

All charts and reports generated by Time Cycles Research software (for the Mac).

housemouse

08-22-2008, 12:23 AM

Hi all,

Here is a website that gives a brief explanation of midpoints, also on the page there is a link to "midpoint picture interpretation" which may help you with keywords.

http://www.cafeastrology.com/astrologytopics/midpoints.html

Since I am posting some educational stuff, this is one of my very favorite astrology websites:

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_intro_e.htm

Look around there, you can learn basic astrology and even calculate charts with basic interpretation for free:)

Good links, Neptunian! They explain midpoints much better than I did! And, a reminder to those of you interested in astrology... do not pay someone over the internet for computer generated charts. It takes me less than 10 seconds to generate a 25 page report!

The software to generate these is expensive, of course. But there are so many free resources online, and computer generated charts do not do the job of integrating a chart.

Only you, the owner, can really do that job, and it is your life's work.

Blink34

08-22-2008, 09:06 AM

I see there is a thread started that discusses why this case, and not others, have gathered so much attention.

I do not want to post to that thread because I am not sure it would be welcome, but I will put it here.

It is because the "Aries point" is so involved with this case. And, I am hoping that Netpunian or Soulscape will come along and explain why better than I can.

There are certain events that just get greater attention than others, and there is usually an astrological reason. The Aries point is one, archetypes are another.

This event hits both, in my humble opinion. It also holds up a mirror of what we have become as a culture, and what we will excuse or tolerate in the name of personal freedom to choose.

HM, I just wanted to say that your subject matter can be intimidating to the novice like myself, but I intend to keep at it because I very much DO think you bring important information and insight into your opinions. They belong anywhere, on any thread, and I would encourage you to post accordingly. Working on getting you the info referenced above :blowkiss:

Wine sleuth

08-22-2008, 10:58 AM

Housemouse, Thank you for the work you have done on this. I have always had an interest in astrology and now see how much I want to learn. I also appreciate your explanation of why it is not in conflict with Christianity. Thanks again.

AmyinTheHam

08-22-2008, 11:10 AM

Housemoues, I too want to thank you for your time and energy spent on these charts. I have to admit I find them impossible to read since I do not know anything about Astrology, well past my horoscope in the paper.... (does that really even count?)

But I do like your explanation as well, I think a fear of going against my religious beliefs has always stopped me from looking into this more. And you did a great job as Wine sleuth said.

I find this thread discussion very interesting and I am glad you started it.

Neptunian

08-22-2008, 12:01 PM

Good Morning to all here

I have been looking at Caylee's chart in relation to the time of her last known sighting - June 15/16. I will try to write in plain english to make myself understood to all.

At this general time, I feel like she was nervous, and worried much of the time. (Moon in hard aspect to Mercury in progression.) Mercury is for movement, and Moon is for her emotions/nurturing - so she probably didn't feel like she was very secure, did not feel a stable home base. We know that she spent time going from place to place with her mother, she was taken from the security of her grandparents home, and this did not sit well with her. I would imagine she probably wasn't eating as well as she should, due to being nervous and constantly on the go. You know the nervous feeling you get in your stomach when stressed? Moon also in hard aspect to Sun in progressions, this underlines the general tension and poss. health/diet problems. Moon progressed into third house (Mercury ruled) of day to day movement and thought patterns. Prog. Moon within the last ten months or so entered the sign of Scorpio, which can be a period of crisis and upheaval. Things were changing in Caylee's life, and this was difficult for her, being so young, to understand and to properly deal with. She felt insecure and could do nothing to stop it. There is other stuff pointing to her nervousness also with strained/broken relationships all around. This is devastating to a Libra Moon baby, as harmonious relatioships are necessary for the well-being.

Now, on the days when she was last seen, there were several indicators of an accident. Transitting Mars was conjunct her Asc. Transitting Mars was also conjunct her progressed Sun. If I saw this in the chart of one of my own children, I would try to maintain a safe environment for them. Keep them safe from cuts, burns, scalds, physical fights. I would also watch for a child to assert themselves, as Mars energy will lend self assertion and sometimes anger. Under this influence, a child might tend to speak out - or act out (as little ones at this age will do). Remember she is under alot of stress at the time. I am wondering if there was a accident that day that may have stemmed from cross words being exchanged? Other things I see indicating a sudden, sharp event is transitting Uranus in hard aspect to both Caylee's natal Mars and Pluto. This is triggering her natal configuration of Venus - Mars - Pluto, which Housemouse has gone over, I don't have to repeat. Trans. Uranus is quincunx and Transitting Neptune is opposite the progressed Ascendent along with several other aspects point to a sudden tramatic occurance/separation that may be hidden. (Neptune's influence)

It makes me very sad to type this. I get the feeling that there may have been an accident or fight covered up. Hidden, also because there is so much 12 house emphasis in her natal chart, and due to the fact that there is the Sun Neptune opposition.

There is alot of activity with Caylee's chart and it is difficult for me to sort through. Upsetting. Maybe the other astrologers can better explain.

Neptunian

08-22-2008, 12:10 PM

Oh, I forgot to add that Progressed Moon in the chart of a child so young could be indicative of the mother. With the stress to the Moon in Caylee's progressed chart, we can probably assume Casey was edgey at the time as well, and their relationship could have been turbulant. The prog. Moon is also trine to Uranus, this is freedom-seeking energy.

Soulscape

08-22-2008, 01:13 PM

Neptunian, I have just read your analysis above and am stunned at how perfectly it seems to fit in with what I saw in the #3 Phone Call to LE chart I just finished copying and pasting below!!

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting this!!!

~~Soulscape

(Now my analysis...)

First, although they probably don’t realize how helpful they’ve been to forensic astrologers, thanks so much to OC Sheriff’s Dept. for posting onto their website the log pinpointing the exact time of Grandma Cindy’s #3 phone call to Police --- 9:41 pm on 7/15/08, Orlando, FL.

This is a critical chart. It is one of the very few timed charts that we have. It is especially important because it is the very first time LE was informed Caylee was missing. The exact words of Grandma Cindy were posted: **I found out my granddaughter has been taken, she has been missing. My daughter finally admitted that’s she’s been missing. My daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. I need to find her … There’s something wrong. I found my daughter’s car today and it smells like there’s been a dead body in the damn car.**

I’m going to start with this #3 Phone Call to LE chart. I think it will be easier to follow my thought process if you print out the charts and refer to them as I make my comments.

Preliminary Observations:

1. The Nodes are across the horizon (the funny little horseshoe shaped symbols at 18 Aquarius/Leo. This shows a fated quality to the chart.
2. Chiron (looks like a K) and Neptune rising suggests an emotionally painful, mysterious situation. The ASC (ascendant), North Node, Chiron and Neptune are all conjunct (next to each other) in the 1st house. This is a very close mirror of Cindy making that phone call. If you listened to the recorded call you know she was emotionally distraught/ in a high amount of emotional pain, and she obviously didn’t have a clue (Neptune) where her granddaughter was.
3. The Sabian Symbol for the ASC degree is: 17º Aquarius (317): A WATCHDOG STANDING GUARD, PROTECTING HIS MASTER AND HIS POSSESSIONS. Whoa!! All she cares about at that moment is finding her little granddaughter. She is that child’s protector, that child is her prized possession…

So which planet represents missing Caylee in this chart? In horary astrology, we give the 1st House and its Ruler to the Querent (the person asking the question). Reading from a forensic perspective isn’t always that simple. I know of some astrologers who use the 1st House & its Ruler as the Missing Person. I have found in my experience that sometimes that works --- and sometimes it doesn’t. Usually, but not always, I find the 7th House & its Ruler describes the Missing Person.

In this chart, I am certain that the 7th House & its Ruler describes Caylee Marie Anthony. Look at her natal chart: Caylee’s natal Sun is at 16:58 Leo – exactly conjunct within 8 minutes of Arc the #3 Phone Call to LE Descendant, 16:52 Leo.

What do I see next? The malefic South Node smack on the Descendant, which would be Caylee’s 1st House. That in itself is chillingly ominous.

*Note: in horary astrology, we turn the chart. Since I’ve assigned Caylee to the 7th House, it becomes Caylee’s 1st House. Virgo (with Libra intercepted) becomes her 2nd House, Scorpio her 3rd House, Sagittarius her 4th House, etc.

So where is Caylee (symbolically)??

The turned 1st is Leo, Ruler is the Sun. In this chart, the Sun is posited (located) in the radix 6th House – the turned 12th House. The 12th House is considered a very bad place in horary astrology – it is the House of Sorrow, Misfortune & Woe. Also notice the Sun is below the horizon (the horizontal access ASC/DES). This is not a good place for Caylee’s ruler to be found. Having one or both of the Lights (Sun and Moon) below the horizon in a horary chart can be a testimony for death. The Sun (Caylee) is trine Uranus, the planet of (among other things) sudden changes, accidents, shocking occurrences.

The Sun (Caylee) is opposite Jupiter, traditional ruler of the turned 8th House of Death. (In traditional astrology, Pisces is ruled by Jupiter, not Neptune.)

The Sun (Caylee) is partile (in the same degree) inconjunct (150 degrees) Neptune --- the modern ruler of the turned 8th House of Death. Uranus is conjunct the turned 8th House of Death. The Fixed Star Scheat (not on chart) is just inside the turned 8th House of Death, at 29:29 Pisces and it is square the Moon/Pluto conjunction (28 – 29 Sagittarius) in the radix chart’s 11th House of Death in the Family.

As if all this weren’t enough, sickeningly, there’s more…

I will continue in another post in a little while.

If anyone has questions or comments, please post.

Thanks,
Soulscape

housemouse

08-22-2008, 01:39 PM

Neptunian and Soulscape!

You both are awesome! I have to take husband to doctor today, so won't be able to post until later.

I thank both of you so much for your contributions.

Lovejac

08-22-2008, 03:57 PM

This is a shout out for Nep and Soul. Thank you so much for your analysis. I have been interested in astrology for a little while now and housem suggested a beginners book for me to read. I feel that all of you seem to be emotional after interpreting the charts. Is it because of the sadness of the situation or is this just normal. Again, many thanks to all of you

housemouse

08-22-2008, 04:49 PM

I can only speak for myself. I am one of those mothers who loved every minute of my little ones, even the tantrums and spaghetti leg stages.

(Spaghetti leg is what they do when you are in a hurry, trying to get them out the door in the winter. Suddenly they make their little legs limp as wet spaghetti, making it very tough to get those boots on!)

That said, we keep searching the charts for something favorable to Caylee's survival. When we can't find much to be optimistic about, we keep looking, hoping to find something we have overlooked.

What bothers me the most is that people have choices, and they have free will. Casey could have used her energy in other ways, sports for example (roller-blading comes to mind for some odd reason)....

But, it looks like she didn't. And a lovely little toddler is gone.

Lovejac

08-22-2008, 05:24 PM

I understand that. I have 3 boys, one is 3 and the twins are 2. I LOVE my messy, loud, busy, exhausting life. And yes, I do get burned out-but I do know that this stage will pass. As much as I want to believe sweet Caylee is alive, everything I read on news, blogs suggests she has passed. then every once in awhile, I come across people who think she is alive. It is exhausting for me to try and find posts/news that suggest she is alive. That being said, all I have to do is turn on my computer, TV and radio. You have to study charts and symbols and the like. So again, I appreciate what you are doing so much.:blowkiss:

I can only speak for myself. I am one of those mothers who loved every minute of my little ones, even the tantrums and spaghetti leg stages.

(Spaghetti leg is what they do when you are in a hurry, trying to get them out the door in the winter. Suddenly they make their little legs limp as wet spaghetti, making it very tough to get those boots on!)

That said, we keep searching the charts for something favorable to Caylee's survival. When we can't find much to be optimistic about, we keep looking, hoping to find something we have overlooked.

What bothers me the most is that people have choices, and they have free will. Casey could have used her energy in other ways, sports for example (roller-blading comes to mind for some odd reason)....

But, it looks like she didn't. And a lovely little toddler is gone.

Neptunian

08-22-2008, 06:03 PM

Hi Housemouse, Soulscape, Lovejac and all,

*LOL, spaghetti legs! HM, I love how you put it:)*

First of all - I went back and reread my messages and want to say this: I used past tense in describing Caylee because the disappearance was more than two months ago. (I am trying my best to cling to hope that she is alive.) There are very powerful forces at play in her life right now. Whenever the slow moving outer planets are contacting personal points in the horoscope, there are major events. She is touched by Uranus (sudden separation), Neptune (mystery) and Pluto (force) at this time. If I knew nothing of Caylee's case and was not emotionally attached to it, I would say that there must have been a terrible accident. I think that faster moving Mars was a trigger for an accident - there is a window of several days wherein Mars was active. (If we can trust what we have heard about when she was last seen.) Without transitting Mars in play, it could be a sudden separation (Uranus). Still with mysterious Neptune.. Transitting Pluto to her natal Venus could be symbolic of a sudden (Uranus) kidnapping (Pluto) of a maiden (Venus). Mars in this natal picture could mean she is cut (Mars) off from her life above ground. Transitting Mars during mid June is the thing that really bothers me.

Also, the chart behind the last 911 phonecall is chilling. This is when the cry of "Where is Caylee?" came into consciousness. Soulscape, I've never turned a chart like you've shown - the concept is intriguing. Thanks for adding your analysis, I hope you add the rest of it soon. It seems we three have indeed come to many of the same things with the different methods we use.

This is a sweet, sunny Leo child who is confused and uneasy about the rapid changes going on in her life that she has no control over. A sparkling little soul who should be the center of her family's attention in a way that does not involve this sort of tragedy. So much promise and potential here:) She has touched me deeply - I'm sure all here feel the same way. And HM, I will keep searching for something favorable!

housemouse

08-22-2008, 06:12 PM

housemouse

08-22-2008, 06:28 PM

MommaD

08-22-2008, 06:29 PM

I was just watching Fox/Geraldo interviewing Leonard Padilla, who is insisting that Caylee is alive, and it dawned on me.

Can we find his birthdate to see what might be going on in his chart?

Ditto the lawyer, Baez?

Might not add anything, but it is always interesting to look at the cross aspects between their charts, and Casey's.

I am so delighted to have the three of us researchers here! What other charts might we look at? What about that court hearing? I think it was around July 21st/22nd, but we might have to go to court records to find the time it started and ended...

hi house mouse.. I admire you and the other too chartresses .. I have been reading about this and so would love to start reading also. I will be making a trip to chattanooga this weekend ( if hubby doesnt have to work ) to see if I can pick up some books. I live about 65 miles from a mall or book store .. lol not much on top of this mountain but the stars are beautiful at night.. and when a meteor hower is visiable oh my gosh just beautiful..

so any good suggestion for a beginner (best bet are the dummies book for me ) lol i have a pc and would like to get software also.. i know you have a mac but maybe soul or nep has a pc and could give me help on this.

I searched on line but i am type to have to visually see and hold stuff and read package.

I think that covers it.. oh by the way if you ever have time would love my chart done.. will pm with info .. don't bother tho if you have no time . just would love to see what long future holds . somethings are happening and just would love to see the stars look on it. thanks for any help..

oh yes and also have some info for you and the ladies..

casey's pre-trial conference date and time 11-5-08 9am
trial 11-17-08 9 30 am

hope this helps everyone in the quest to find Caylee and bring the baby home .. God Bless to all..

housemouse

08-22-2008, 06:50 PM

I hope that Neptunian and Soulscape will offer their opinions on the best beginner books. I suggest staying away from the "pop astrology" bokks that tell you nonsense, like "what's your love sign", and stuff like that.

I like "Aspects in Astrology" by Sue Tompkins. Sub-title is "A Guide to Understanding Planetary Relationships in the Horoscope".

I would be happy to email you your chart, and there is no charge, for my software does it in about 2 seconds. But! AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!

You must have an accurate birth time and location, otherwise you will not be able to get the most personal information. I got mine from the birth records in the city where I was born, and boy, am I glad I didn't take my mother's word for it.

She said I was born right after dinner. Come to find out that I was born at 10:30 PM, recorded on the "extra" section of my certificate.

But, I also must tell you that astrology cannot tell you what will happen in your future. This is why the Bible warns us against "fortune-telling".

What astrology can tell you is the kinds of energy you will feel or be dealing with at certain points in time. These can manifest in such a variety of ways that no astrologer can accurately predict anything specific.

Also, how you respond to these energies is what makes you a unique individual. Your personal growth over the years, past experiences of a similar nature, the knowledge and wisdom you have gained from these, and the personal choices you make are much more important than the aspects themselves.

The natal aspects, and the transiting aspects are more like a "language", and you can use this language, once you learn it, to be accepting of all of life's ups and downs.

I hope this helps. And, once you get your chart, I can send you computer generated text, both for your natal aspects, and for transiting aspects, but you must remember that these are very general, and not specific to you, personally. They also do not integrate all the information in your chart, either, so you must do a bit of work yourself.

housemouse

08-22-2008, 06:56 PM

And, another bit of advice for people just starting to study astrology, do not spend much time looking ahead in your chart.

Instead list the major events in your past life, then check to see what aspects in your natal chart were being touched by "transits". Then think about how you handled them, and what you learned... this will tell you a lot about yourself, and what resources you have developed. So when similar transits occur again, you will be able to refer back...

Soulscape

08-22-2008, 08:08 PM

I was just watching Fox/Geraldo interviewing Leonard Padilla, who is insisting that Caylee is alive, and it dawned on me.

Can we find his birthdate to see what might be going on in his chart?

Ditto the lawyer, Baez?

Might not add anything, but it is always interesting to look at the cross aspects between their charts, and Casey's.

I am so delighted to have the three of us researchers here! What other charts might we look at? What about that court hearing? I think it was around July 21st/22nd, but we might have to go to court records to find the time it started and ended...

Whether Caylee is still alive or not will not be seen in Padilla's chart, nor Baez's .... but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find one or both of them in the middle of a big fat Neptune transit (delusion)!

I would so like to get my hands on Casey's exact birth information, and Cindy's, too. I believe those two timed charts would spill BUCKETS of info....

It's too bad LE across the country is basically skeptical about astrology. All they would have to do is supply WS with credible, full birth data on key players & the astrologers could have a go at it. What does LE have to lose? A few minutes of time pulling up a record on a database? What if those few minutes of effort on their part resulted in info/clues that could help them crack a case, sooner rather than later?

JMO,
Thanks,
Soulscape

Soulscape

08-22-2008, 08:16 PM

...

so any good suggestion for a beginner (best bet are the dummies book for me ) lol i have a pc and would like to get software also.. i know you have a mac but maybe soul or nep has a pc and could give me help on this.

I searched on line but i am type to have to visually see and hold stuff and read package.

...

casey's pre-trial conference date and time 11-5-08 9am
trial 11-17-08 9 30 am

hope this helps everyone in the quest to find Caylee and bring the baby home .. God Bless to all..

Hi MommaD,

I would recommend Astrology, A Cosmic Science by Isabel Hickey. I would also recommend a website, www.bobmarksastrologer.com. He has very good lessons.

As far as programs for the PC, start with Astrowin by Allen Edwall, available for free download on www.astrowin.org. It is very good for a free program. Later, should you decide you are hooked on astro & want professional software, I use Solar Fire and am pretty happy with it.

Thanks for supplying the start times of the pre-trial and the trial. I will try to give those charts a look-over.

Thanks,
Soulscape

Soulscape

08-22-2008, 08:19 PM

Maybe we should take a look at the timeline thread, and decide which date or dates we might look at to see how this will end?

Obviously it is extremely time consuming to check all of them, so how do we decide which might be the most significant or helpful.

I am wondering about the date the dogs visited the Anthony property? How do we ascertain which planets represents the dogs? :confused:

Hi Housemouse,

The dogs would be the 6th House of Service, IMO. The planet that rules the 6th House would represent the dogs. If there is a planet (planets) very close to the 6th House cusp, they would also give information, but the Ruler of the 6th House would be their primary significator.

Thanks,
Soulscape

Soulscape

08-22-2008, 08:27 PM

Hi Housemouse, Soulscape, Lovejac and all,

...

First of all - I went back and reread my messages and want to say this: I used past tense in describing Caylee because the disappearance was more than two months ago. (I am trying my best to cling to hope that she is alive.) There are very powerful forces at play in her life right now. Whenever the slow moving outer planets are contacting personal points in the horoscope, there are major events. She is touched by Uranus (sudden separation), Neptune (mystery) and Pluto (force) at this time. If I knew nothing of Caylee's case and was not emotionally attached to it, I would say that there must have been a terrible accident. I think that faster moving Mars was a trigger for an accident - there is a window of several days wherein Mars was active. (If we can trust what we have heard about when she was last seen.) Without transitting Mars in play, it could be a sudden separation (Uranus). Still with mysterious Neptune.. Transitting Pluto to her natal Venus could be symbolic of a sudden (Uranus) kidnapping (Pluto) of a maiden (Venus). Mars in this natal picture could mean she is cut (Mars) off from her life above ground. Transitting Mars during mid June is the thing that really bothers me.

Also, the chart behind the last 911 phonecall is chilling. This is when the cry of "Where is Caylee?" came into consciousness. Soulscape, I've never turned a chart like you've shown - the concept is intriguing. Thanks for adding your analysis, I hope you add the rest of it soon. It seems we three have indeed come to many of the same things with the different methods we use.

This is a sweet, sunny Leo child who is confused and uneasy about the rapid changes going on in her life that she has no control over. A sparkling little soul who should be the center of her family's attention in a way that does not involve this sort of tragedy. So much promise and potential here:) She has touched me deeply - I'm sure all here feel the same way. And HM, I will keep searching for something favorable!

Hi Neptunian,

It does indeed seem the three of us have come to similar conclusions despite using different methods. I was marveling about that myself this afternoon, but sadly, I must add, because of what it points to.

I still have things to say about the #3 Phone Call to LE chart, and sadly, nothing favorable. I will post as soon as I can, hopefully later this evening, but if not, then tomorrow morning.

I am a mother and grandmother. Reading charts like this one wrack me over the coals and break my heart.

Thanks,
Soulscape

MommaD

08-22-2008, 09:40 PM

MommaD

08-22-2008, 09:45 PM

housemouse

08-22-2008, 10:05 PM

house mouse did u see the time and dates of casey's trial i put up?? i saw where you had asked for them on a thread..

i also have been searching like crazy for lp dob but only have come up so far with the year.. its 1939... also found out his first name is jesse leonard padilla

will see what I can get on baez also.

His first name is Jesse? Isn't that a coincidence! You are a good sleuther, MommaD! I did see those dates... I am hoping for a time for that first hearing on the 22nd of July. I have been watching the videos of them, but have to get my husband put to bed now.

He has Parkinson's and needs my help with the physical stuff. Will be back on later, maybe, if I don't run out of energy!

Soulscape

08-23-2008, 12:44 AM

Hello All,

In Part 1, the last thing I stated was:

The Sun (Caylee) is partile (in the same degree) inconjunct (150 degrees) Neptune --- the modern ruler of the turned 8th House of Death. Uranus is conjunct the turned 8th House of Death. The Fixed Star Scheat (not on chart) is just inside the turned 8th House of Death, at 29:29 Pisces and it is square the Moon/Pluto conjunction (28 – 29 Sagittarius) in the radix chart’s 11th House of Death in the Family.

The 150 degree inconjunct or quincunx is an angle of irritation and stress, and in horary, often linked to illness, accident and even death, likely because the 6th (sickness/health) & 8th (death) houses are 150 degrees (quincunx) the Ascendant (the body, or the health center).

Here we’ve got the Sun which is Caylee’s significator in this chart -- AND IN GENERAL symbolizes Life/ being alive -- in a very uncomfortable (quincunx) 150 degree aspect to Neptune, which is a planet that dissolves anything it touches. In other words, her life (Sun) slipping away (Neptune).

The placement of the Fixed Star Scheat just inside the turned 8th House of Death is troubling. Scheat connotes just what it sounds like …. Notice that at 29:29 Pisces, Scheat is conjunct Casey’s natal 28 Pisces Sun. The image I get is coming home and finding the bird cage door open, the birdie gone and the cat standing there with a feather hanging out of his mouth…pretty incriminating… and don’t forget, both Scheat (and Casey’s natal Sun) square the #3 Phone Call to LE chart’s Moon/Pluto conjunction (28-29 Sagittarius). Astrologically, this is not a pretty picture.

And it gets worse.

There is a Fixed Star called Alcyone, also known as the Pleiades, located at 00 Gemini. This star symbolizes the seven weeping sisters and gives **something to cry about.**

Alcyone is exactly on the IC (4th House cusp). This is very important for two reasons: (1) In horary, the 4th House gives The End of the Matter (how things turn out), and (2) in traditional horary, the mother is assigned to the 10th House. Since we turned the chart for Caylee making the 7th House her 1st House, if you count 10 houses with House 7 being #1, House 8 being #2, etc., you will see Caylee’s 10th House of the Mother would be the radix 4th House. So Alcyone’s placement there tells me the end of this matter is something to cry about, and its placement exactly on the cusp of the house symbolizing Caylee’s mother shouts to me that the mother Casey is the reason there is something to cry about. (Please note, Alcyone’s placement does NOT mean the mother killed the child, but it leaves no doubt whatsoever that whatever happened to Caylee was through her mother Casey’s actions or inactions.

The Part of Death (not shown) is located at 15:40 Scorpio, located in the turned 3rd House of the neighborhood. This suggests she died near her home. Scorpio is a sign of passion and violence (ruled by Mars and co-ruled by Pluto), so it is likely an aggressive act that killed her. The Part of Death is square the Nodes and the Nodes are conjunct the Ascendant/Descendant axis --- strong indication of death. The Part of Death is disposited by Mars, the traditional ruler of Scorpio, located at 8:39 Virgo in the turned 1st House. Notice Mars (anger, violence, aggression, rage, murder) is partile (in the same degree) sextile (60 degrees) Mercury, ruler of the turned 10th House of the Mother and the radix 4th House End of the Matter. This is another chilling testimony that whatever happened to Caylee was the result of the mother Casey’s actions or non-actions.

In a horary chart, the planet the Moon last passed over shows what happened. Here, the Moon last passed over Mars --- anger, aggression violence, rage, murder --- which is just separating from a conjunction with Saturn (death indicator) and then passed over the Part of Death (death indicator), and now is applying within 28 minutes of Arc to a conjunction with Pluto (death indicator).

So where is Caylee? According to the teachings of Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson, you will find the person where the significator is located by House and sign. (See Simplified Horary Astrology)

Caylee is signified by the Sun, located in the turned 12th House/ radix 6th House at 23:54 Cancer. The 6th/ 12th houses are cadent houses. She will be found farther off and may be lost, hidden or secluded, perhaps sent away, in a neighborhood different from that of the querent (Cindy, because she placed the call to LE).

The Sun (Caylee) is in Cancer: reservoirs, wells, cisterns, fountains, pools, marshes, ditches, moats, canals, water-ways and run-offs, rivers and their banks, lakes, ponds, hydrants and plumbing lines.

The direction of Cancer is NORTH, and being a water sign, indicates lowlands (below sea level).

The direction by house and sign is WEST NORTH WEST. The mileage is calculated based on the celestial latitude of the planet that is the significator (the SUN) and the difference in degrees between that planet and the MOON.
Sun is a 00 Latitude giving 1 mile according to Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson. The difference in degrees between significator SUN and the Moon is 4 degrees 46 minutes. 46 minutes is approximately ¾ of 60 (60 minutes in a degree), so the indication is that Caylee is approximately 4.75 miles away from her home in a WEST NORTH WEST DIRECTION, or its opposite, EAST SOUTH EAST. (If you superimpose the chart over a land map, you will see the SUN (Caylee) in the EAST SOUTH EAST area.) (See Simplified Horary Astrology page 72)

Ok... I’m gonna stop now because I’m depressing myself. The connections between Caylee’s natal chart and the #3 Phone Call to LE chart only confirm what I see in the stand-alone #3 Phone Call to LE chart.

I can only pray that LE gets to the bottom of this case soon. I hope to God my analysis is wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't think it is...

Taking a break,
Thanks,
Soulscape

Lovejac

08-23-2008, 02:09 AM

Hello All,

Ok... I’m gonna stop now because I’m depressing myself. The connections between Caylee’s natal chart and the #3 Phone Call to LE chart only confirm what I see in the stand-alone #3 Phone Call to LE chart.

I can only pray that LE gets to the bottom of this case soon. I hope to God my analysis is wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't think it is...

Taking a break,
Thanks,
Soulscape

<snipped with the utmost respect>

Wow Soulscape. So saddened by this. I have tried and tried to believe that sweet Caylee was still on this earth. Still don't know how such a sweet, happy and well-loved child would end up like this. I sooo wish that someone, anyone in LE had an open mind about this science, if only to search what you saw......if only to pick up what is left of that child and give her some dignity. Why and how could Casey. As a mother of 3, I will never understand. I wish I could find Casey's birth time. If only to try to explain this tragedy to my mind becuse my heart will never understand. Thank you so much Soulscape, I can only imagine how hard this was for you. You will be in my prayers tonight along with Caylee. God Bless, Catherine

Choo_Choo

08-23-2008, 02:14 AM

Soulscape........what Lovejac said.

Blink34

08-23-2008, 09:13 AM

Soulscape, HouseMouse and Gang, I am wondering, and forgive the question in advance if it is grossly novice, if your work can predict a future event? Also can you advise how much of your interpretation of your data is intuitive, from experience, etc..
I am very active on the general thread and there is not a thing I have read there that has not been confirmed on here so I am fascinated. Bumping this thread on there now.

housemouse

08-23-2008, 12:22 PM