Devil's Advocate

[Tricia]

Let me state without hesitation that there is no question in my mind that Casey is lying and knows exactly what happened to Caylee. I have reached the most likely conclusion that Caylee is dead.

Do you remember the Elizabeth Smart case? Happened right her in Salt Lake. About 45 minutes from where I live.

I joined the search, went to the press conferences so I could report on my other forum, Forums for Justice.org. I did not own Websleuths at the time.

The police were so sure they had the right suspect in Richard Ricci and for a while I drank the Kool-aid. Then on Larry King Live Marc Klaas was the first one to suggest that Ricci didn't do it. Very unusal comment coming from him. I knew it must have taken a lot to get Klaas to proclaim his doubts.

I'll make this very long story short. It did come out that police were releasing information hoping to make Ricci crack because in reality all they had was an ex-con came in contact with Elizabeth at some point in her life. That is it. NOTHING ELSE. But, the cops said the hat Elizabeth's little sister described the kidnapper wearing was found at Angela Ricci's dad's house. Tidbits along this line. All not true. Said neighbors saw Ricci digging a hole under his trailor the morning of the kidnapping. Not true. I could go on but you get the picture.

Angela Ricci is now a good friend of mine. Her story would make some of you never trust the police again. It certainly did make me question my loyalty to the law.

I know the two cases are very different but let me pose this to you;

What if the police are not telling the truth about Casey? What if there is "the nanny" out there and cops are just not looking for her.

What if Casey has told the cops more than we know and the cops are not releasing it because it would make Casey look good.

Again, I don't believe it but then I was certain Richard Ricci took Elizabeth Smart too. For a long time.

What if Casey's lies are not the real story. Could the police have made up the Universal story?

You know why they are releasing the audio from her phone calls, to put pressure on her. Maybe they are making things up to put pressure on her and her family.

Just a thought. Now, be nice to me if you answer my post. I cry very easily. LOL.

[txsvicki]

I think anything is possible, but what about the comraderie and respect between officers. George is former LE and you'd think that they would be trying to help him since he was/is one of them.

[LI_Mom]

Tricia, I've been saying for days that I truly believe most of what we hear about this case is psy ops.... & I've begun questioning whether they finally got the Anthony family on board so they can all work together to get Casey talking.

I just don't follow the logic that Casey has already told them good leads & there could be a nanny....

NOBODY reports knowing of this nanny... not strangers OR even friends.

NOBODY can confirm a single 'fact' she told.

It doesn't seem possible that NOBODY (except Cindy) would protest if there was a chance Casey was being treated unfairly & being lied about.

[cricket]

OK - I'm not crazy! Your post went poof and disappeared! I now see you moved it to its own thread.

I usually give LE the benefit of the doubt, but after cases like the one you mentioned (Ricci), Stephen Hatfill, Richard Jewell, and especially after the whole Duke Lacrosse debacle, I have learned not to assume that all LE are honorable and competent. Some clearly aren't.

I don't know if we are getting the truth from LE in this case or not, but one thing that raised my hinky meter was that during the bond hearing LE made such a big deal out of the stain the found in her car. They implied that it was likely blood. But they only mentioned testing it with a light. I know LE has field test kits that use chemicals and they could have determined immediately whether or not the stain was actually human blood. I wonder why they didn't do a definitive test right away. Is it because if it wasn't human blood, they would have less "evidence" to talk about at the bond hearing?

[athy]

if this nanny is out there and was a part of their life for 3 years. if this nanny use to go to fusian's as did the rest of Casey's friends. WHY does no one but Casey know this woman? WHY can't she give a better description than she has of this woman?

and WHY would you just drop a kid off at the curb of this woman? whenever i had a babysitter which was rare and few between...i always made sure i took my child inside before saying goodbye. made sure my child was settled before i left.

[sugarbritches]

This is a What if?
What if Casey was involved with some sort of gang or illegal activity. And for some reason the "gang" members took her and Caylee (in her car). Dropped the car off and told her they would keep Caylee until she did whatever they kidnapped her for. She spent the remainder of the days acutually looking for her. Had to act "normal" for the sake of the "gang" telling her not to talk. Finally had to admit to mom and then was arrested. The smell from the car could be from another source that the gang had it for. I am still convinced the Patrick visit in jail was a secret code of sorts.
I don't know guys...I guess I am just trying to put another spin on this in hopes that Caylee is still alive. I cannot imagine how crazy you could be as a mother to smile everyday knowing your daughter is dead. I can't wrap my head around it.

[STEADFAST]

I would believe there was the slight possibility that Casey did leave Caylee with a babysitter who now refuses to give her back and is threatening Casey's family, except that Casey does not seem concerned about her child's welfare or anxious to hear any information that may have been discovered, whether about Caylee or any of her threatened family members.

Plus, the "babysitter and associates" are either dangerous, meaning that everybody who tells the truth is in jeopardy, or they are benign, meaning that Caylee can be assumed to be okay. But not both.

[LI_Mom]

I don't know if we are getting the truth from LE in this case or not, but one thing that raised my hinky meter was that during the bond hearing LE made such a big deal out of the stain the found in her car. They implied that it was likely blood. But they only mentioned testing it with a light. I know LE has field test kits that use chemicals and they could have determined immediately whether or not the stain was actually human blood. I wonder why they didn't do a definitive test right away. Is it because if it wasn't human blood, they would have less "evidence" to talk about at the bond hearing?

IF the alleged sample of blood was very small, they wouldn't want to do more testing than absolutely necessary... you never know how many tests you might end up running on that one spot.


When I heard them use the word 'stain' I automatically thought of decomposition type stains & not blood... not sure what everyone else thought.

[LI_Mom]

This is a What if?
What if Casey was involved with some sort of gang or illegal activity. And for some reason the "gang" members took her and Caylee (in her car). Dropped the car off and told her they would keep Caylee until she did whatever they kidnapped her for. She spent the remainder of the days acutually looking for her. Had to act "normal" for the sake of the "gang" telling her not to talk. Finally had to admit to mom and then was arrested. The smell from the car could be from another source that the gang had it for. I am still convinced the Patrick visit in jail was a secret code of sorts.
I don't know guys...I guess I am just trying to put another spin on this in hopes that Caylee is still alive. I cannot imagine how crazy you could be as a mother to smile everyday knowing your daughter is dead. I can't wrap my head around it.

Sounds crazy enough for Casey to be caught up in. lol


One problem.... the cadaver dogs alerting in the Anthony backyard.

Do the Anthonys have the whole gang hanging out while they're out of town & none of the neighbors even noticed?

[absolut_alexis]

Let me state without hesitation that there is no question in my mind that Casey is lying and knows exactly what happened to Caylee. I have reached the most likely conclusion that Caylee is dead.

Do you remember the Elizabeth Smart case? Happened right her in Salt Lake. About 45 minutes from where I live.

I joined the search, went to the press conferences so I could report on my other forum, Forums for Justice.org. I did not own Websleuths at the time.

The police were so sure they had the right suspect in Richard Ricci and for a while I drank the Kool-aid. Then on Larry King Live Marc Klaas was the first one to suggest that Ricci didn't do it. Very unusal comment coming from him. I knew it must have taken a lot to get Klaas to proclaim his doubts.

I'll make this very long story short. It did come out that police were releasing information hoping to make Ricci crack because in reality all they had was an ex-con came in contact with Elizabeth at some point in her life. That is it. NOTHING ELSE. But, the cops said the hat Elizabeth's little sister described the kidnapper wearing was found at Angela Ricci's dad's house. Tidbits along this line. All not true. Said neighbors saw Ricci digging a hole under his trailor the morning of the kidnapping. Not true. I could go on but you get the picture.

Angela Ricci is now a good friend of mine. Her story would make some of you never trust the police again. It certainly did make me question my loyalty to the law.

I know the two cases are very different but let me pose this to you;

What if the police are not telling the truth about Casey? What if there is "the nanny" out there and cops are just not looking for her.

What if Casey has told the cops more than we know and the cops are not releasing it because it would make Casey look good.

Again, I don't believe it but then I was certain Richard Ricci took Elizabeth Smart too. For a long time.

What if Casey's lies are not the real story. Could the police have made up the Universal story?

You know why they are releasing the audio from her phone calls, to put pressure on her. Maybe they are making things up to put pressure on her and her family.

Just a thought. Now, be nice to me if you answer my post. I cry very easily. LOL.

Well, the audio is public record from the jail, so the police aren't releasing it, but I guess in a way they are since they are choosing what is vetted out.

I don't think the police could have made up the universal story because Casey and Cindy said the police spent several hours with her and went places. BUT - Lee did warn Casey to be exact and precise. I think Casey's phrasing that she worked at Universal but was actually contracted by Kodak makes sense. Cindy admitted that she wasn't working there in 2008, though.

It is possible that the police could be uncompromising in holding her hard and fast to details to catch her in lies to create a larger web of lies. Cindy's confusion of dates is understandable due to her distress, she didn't remember which weekend was father's day. Casey isn't going to be cut any slack because she doesn't seem distressed.

I have thought about if there anything that Casey is consistant on. She told police and Cindy that Caylee was with the nanny, but Tony and his DJ friend that Caylee was with Cindy / the nanny /friends. So that has not been a consistent story. She is not consistent in saying she doesn't know where Caylee was, because in all those phone calls, etc, she said she was with the nanny or someone.

She is not consistent in saying Caylee is okay, because she says she is afraid people will hurt her if she tells the police who has her, but she also gave the police a specific name.

If there was one thing that we could lock on as true, and police said - no, that is a lie, well then, I'd think maybe the police were too disgusted with her to give her a chance. There is nothing to lock in on, though.

[JanPat]

Tricia,

I'd agree with you if everything we knew about Casey came from LE. The difference here is the most damaging evidence has come straight from Casey herself. The party pics while her daughter is missing, the audiotapes from the jail calls, her MySpace postings--the list goes on and on.

I remember following Elizabeth Smart on FFJ. I also remember having quite a few reservations about Ricci even when LE was pushing him as the prime suspect. For everything that LE and the media pointed to as evidence of his guilt, I was able to see a reasonable explanation for where he was, what he was doing. Yes, he was a convicted criminal, but something rang true when he and his wife spoke. I remember crying when I heard about his death--so sad to die under such a dark cloud!

I agree with you on taking a devil's advocate stance. It's for that reason I can't sit in judgement on any of the Anthony's other than Casey at this time. I just don't see evidence of wrongdoing on their part. Yes, they may have some blind loyalty, but I haven't yet seen real evidence of involvement.

You have to take what LE and the media give you and evaluate it with a bit of skepticism. That's what's kept me reading on your forums for years--I like the fact that people THINK rather than blindly accepting what is fed to them. :) In this case however, Casey's position is one of her own making, fed by her own words and behaviors.

[Aleve N Fla]

Tricia, you have made some very valid comments. I feel for your friend Angela and her family - gosh what they must have gone through. I can understand why you many think that it is LE that has dropped the ball here.
Knowing what I have read on many sites about the people that are involved in the disappearance of Caylee I honestly dont think it is a LE coverup. Yes, on many occasions LE has tried to convict innocents just to make themselves look like heros but I dont think this is the case.

Yes George is an ex LE officer, but to me that doesnt mean much, at least in my opinion it doesnt.
Yes Jesse Grund used to work for OPD and was either fired or quit for various reasons. He has made the statement that he spoke to Casey on the 24th and swears he heard Caylee. Then spoke to Casey again on the 25th and she said that she was with the sitter.

And yes, that other friend of Caseys was also an ex- LE officer. I see those the only three connections to LE.

Is it possible that there is some bad blood between some of those involved with the case and some in LE trying to solve the case - I would think most definitely - but I dont think our LE here in Orlando would try to do what the LE did in Salt Lake - at least I hope not.

As far as the nanny goes - my problem with that is that so many friends of Casey never ever met the Nanny - or babysitter. Darling Caylee is almost 3 years old and NO ONE met her?? I know when my two were small and we had a sitter other of our friends knew the sitter, saw her - knew her number. I think thats how it is normally. How could her friends (forgetting family in case they are covering up something) have not known the sitter. That to me is a tell tale sign.

Sad to say only time will tell with this horrific case.... and I hope time brings the truth to light..

[Tricia]

All I can say is, "Damn, you guys are smart!!!!

I love reading this thread. Reading how you all make such sharp points.

It is good idea to try and think how a piece of evidence might not be what you think it is. This way all the bases are covered.

Of course I agree with everything you are saying.

Even if all of the evidence we have seen so far turns out to be untrue, and that is a big if, Casey's behavior is the final straw. You can't spin, or try to explain away her behavior. It is what it is. A mom with no care in the world about her missing child. Why wouldn't she care, because she knows.

End of story.

[christine2448]

All I can say is, "Damn, you guys are smart!!!!

I love reading this thread. Reading how you all make such sharp points.

It is good idea to try and think how a piece of evidence might not be what you think it is. This way all the bases are covered.

Of course I agree with everything you are saying.

Even if all of the evidence we have seen so far turns out to be untrue, and that is a big if, Casey's behavior is the final straw. You can't spin, or try to explain away her behavior. It is what it is. A mom with no care in the world about her missing child. Why wouldn't she care, because she knows.

End of story.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: Maybe some will get a clue what this forum is all about. Thank you Tricia, for all you do!

[Elphaba]

It does make you really think... that is for sure. But the thing is, while LE is presenting to us the picture of a woman that seems cold and indifferent to where her child is, on top of being a pathological liar: a good bit of people outside of LE that actually know her are also painting her in that same light. I think that speaks volumes and bolsters the case LE have with her.

[cricket]

IF the alleged sample of blood was very small, they wouldn't want to do more testing than absolutely necessary... you never know how many tests you might end up running on that one spot.

When I heard them use the word 'stain' I automatically thought of decomposition type stains & not blood... not sure what everyone else thought.

I couldn't find any article that mentions the size of the stain. I found this in one article:

Here's what cops have found in the trunk of Casey's car so far:


Hair that appears to match Caylee.


Dirt.


Questionable stains that show up under a black light.


The Anthonys say trash was left in the car. On Thursday, investigators got the trash from George Anthony and are still investigating whether it's the source of the "decomposing" smell. It has not been determined yet.


The detective testified that he believes "the two smells are not the same."


Link:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/2008/07/post-2.html


I found another article about the bond hearing but it didn't even mention the stain, but quoted the detective testifying about the smell of decomposition in the car.

You are right that if the stain was small, they wouldn't attempt to do a chemical test in the field; they would wait and test it at the lab. I don't know, it just seemed like LE was trying to make the stain out to be a bigger deal than it really is. That being said, I do NOT think LE would lie about the dogs hitting on the car and the yard; they testified under oath.

As much as I would love to believe there is some alternate explanation for Caylee being gone (and that she is alive), it's just hard to get past the fact that two dogs smelled decomp.

[Elphaba]

All I can say is, "Damn, you guys are smart!!!!

I love reading this thread. Reading how you all make such sharp points.

It is good idea to try and think how a piece of evidence might not be what you think it is. This way all the bases are covered.

Of course I agree with everything you are saying.

Even if all of the evidence we have seen so far turns out to be untrue, and that is a big if, Casey's behavior is the final straw. You can't spin, or try to explain away her behavior. It is what it is. A mom with no care in the world about her missing child. Why wouldn't she care, because she knows.

End of story.


Amen!

[brighidin]

I'm always wary of police. I think of the case of Jane Doe in Toronto. She was the fifth woman raped by the 'balcony rapist' who had a very specific MO but the police did not release any information because they didn't want women to get 'hysterical' and scare off the rapist. After a VERY long court battle, she was able to sue the police for essentially using her as bait.

In this case, I can't say that I see the police doing a whole lot in the public. It seems to me that they are taking a back seat - that doesn't mean they aren't doing anything, it just isn't front and centre, like in other high profile cases.
What is concerning to me is that apparently (according to the NG show this evening) a sketch has been made the nanny. Where is it? I think I have read most of the threads here, but I haven't seen it. I could be totally missing something though.

[OneLostGrl]

Tricia-

I ask myself these kinds of questions about this case every day. Some moments I really don't think this child is dead. I still have 2 or 3 different theories about what could have happened to Caylee. I also at times wonder if the police, perhaps, are NOT investigating things the way they should because they assume Casey is guilty of killing her daughter.

But then I always come back to the the dogs picking up the decomp smell in the car and in the yard and the grandmother saying in the 911 call that it "Smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car!".

I don't know... I do not know what to expect in this case and my own theories vary so much that nothing would surprise me..

[sugarbritches]

"Maybe some will get a clue what this forum is all about. ":


Should I have posted my comments elsewhere? Just asking because I am new.
:confused:

[mahmoo]

"Maybe some will get a clue what this forum is all about. ":


Should I have posted my comments elsewhere? Just asking because I am new.
:confused:


I wouldn't worry about it too much.....just stick around and keep posting if ya want to.

[LI_Mom]

Questionable stains that show up under a black light.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - Reply to Topic (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2444235)


We don't know what color carpet was in the trunk, so that makes it even more impossible to speculate.

Here's an interesting article about forensics & black lights:

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/f/blblacklight.htm


All these findings would require different types of tests, I assume. Again, how much do they have available to test??

Since the child was already missing for a month... the police would probably be reckless to rush to test in the field & potentially destroy important evidence.

[LI_Mom]

"Maybe some will get a clue what this forum is all about. ":


Should I have posted my comments elsewhere? Just asking because I am new.
:confused:

Christine only meant that people pose questions & then come up with answers or logical theories.... THAT'S what WebSleuths is all about.

Welcome aboard. :)

[sugarbritches]

Thank you Mahmoo...I am seriously having difficulty translating how to take some posts...

[sugarbritches]

O/T.....And thank you too LI MOM. I love being here, but not on Caylee's forum. Wish I could have met you all elsewhere. Poor baby.

[winteryns]

I'm torn as I always am with any case where the mother is the suspect. I always try to hold out hope that no mother could do this. Sadly, I have been wrong but until then I am hoping she didn't do anything to that baby.

[Bobby62]

Following your devils advocate lead....

If anyone working in the back yard had cut themselves, even slightly, and blood had dripped on the ground or in the trunk. Possible, not probable.

I do not even know if this is possible but maybe phlegm from sneezing was decomposing. It is white blood cells.

Maybe Casey left her in the Car and she died in the Orlando heat. It seems to happen in central FL about once a month. The average person seems to call authorities though.

The bag of pizza and garbage may have had used menstrual fluids in it. People on septic throw away instead of flushing.

The detective at the bond hearing seemed to say that the dog hit in the back seat and trunk. Somehow it all got switched to trunk.

Occam's Razor will prevail in this case, MOO

[Alcina]

I understand exactly what you are saying Tricia. You really made me think. What I keep coming back to is Ricci would have told the truth right away if he knew HE had not done anything but he knew who did or knew anything at all that could help. Casey has not done that. She speaks in riddles and it helps noone, not even herself.

[Chanler]

Of course, in the Elizabeth Smart case, the father was the focus of attention for some time.

Police often pressure suspects in various ways, hoping that something (not necessarily a straightforward confession) will emerge. That they turn out to be wrong sometimes (the Hatfill episode in the anthrax case comes painfully to mind today) is deeply regrettable, but comes with the territory.

In this case, the doubt seems not to reside in who did something, but in what was done.

[ShouldBWorking]

I think anything is possible, but what about the comraderie and respect between officers. George is former LE and you'd think that they would be trying to help him since he was/is one of them.

I have thought this a few times, maybe they are being soft because George is one of them....

I also have thought about the dogs, I heard some place that they brought the second dog in for another opinion, I have thought what if the first dog hit on the smell but the dog isn't "mature, trusted whatever" so they bring a second dog in but out of respect for cop #1 the #2 handler says,
"yeah my dog hit the same spots..."

I also believe she is guilty as sin, but just thoughts I have late at night when this crazy case is keeping me from a good nights sleep....

[curiositycat]

Something in this case STINKS. I have seen seasoned lawyers, detectives and profilers on tv that say they have never seen anything like this. The other night Jeanine Shapiro said on Fox "Something about this is not right, I just sense that something is going on."

There is a lot more to fusion then meets the eyes at first. The guy that owns fusion also owns the Exotic Car business that put up the 225,000.00 reward.

I know about cops and I know about that "blue line" that they have. That brotherhood. If there are crooked cops involved it will go all the way up to the judicial system because that's how they take care of things.

My ex-husband, years ago now, was a cop. I was almost killed by him. The things I went through were so bizarre that it felt like I was in a horror movie. The day he almost killed me he had driven by and threatened me with a gun. I saw a friend of his go by in his police car. I ran after him and yelled to him "**** is going to kill me, he is in a rage and he is going to kill me this time." The man laughed at me and said "I am off duty" he drove off and left me to die. This and worse had gone on for years until one honest cop came out when a neighbor heard this and called 911 that day. I am alive today because of him.

To me this case smacks of "cops being paid off by Mafia" I ask you was Casey just a young innocent girl that got herself in way over her head with the wrong people? Was Caylee taken by someone involved and sold into some child sex trade??

OR

Is Casey just a sociopath murderer who wanted a life of sex, drugs and rock and roll and didn't want a child to tie her down?" Did Casey use one to many Xanax (zanny the nanny) and accidently kill Caylee?"

Are we all crazy or is our intuition telling us that something about this case is just too bizarre to be true?

The reason this site has seen so many newbies is that it is one of the most fascinating and unbelievable cases I have ever seen in my lifetime

The friends she has at fusion won't talk because if I am right about this they too will be too afraid.

If Cindy and George are bucking the system, and I think they are, they probably won't get to far..unless like me they are sent one angel to help them.

A part of me thinks they are all just a bunch of loony tunes..and then there is the other part of me that says "What the H*** is going on here?"

[angelwngs]

I might be way off base, but it seems that not only does Casey seem somewhere out in the Twilight Zone in what one would consider normal concern and normal actions to attempt to find her missing 2 year old daughter, but it appears to me if she seems to be enjoying the spotlight and the attention that Caylee being missing has cast on her.

Has anyone reported her being distraught to the point of tears even over her own circumstances of being jailed? I have not heard or seen anything except her taking a strong, bold attitude in video and on audio tape. She seems to show no vunerability for Caylee or herself. She seems to be performing like a real tough cookie, in charge and not about to show any sign of compassion or vunerability.

[winteryns]

Something in this case STINKS. I have seen seasoned lawyers, detectives and profilers on tv that say they have never seen anything like this. The other night Jeanine Shapiro said on Fox "Something about this is not right, I just sense that something is going on."

There is a lot more to fusion then meets the eyes at first. The guy that owns fusion also owns the Exotic Car business that put up the 225,000.00 reward.

I know about cops and I know about that "blue line" that they have. That brotherhood. If there are crooked cops involved it will go all the way up to the judicial system because that's how they take care of things.

My ex-husband, years ago now, was a cop. I was almost killed by him. The things I went through were so bizarre that it felt like I was in a horror movie. The day he almost killed me he had driven by and threatened me with a gun. I saw a friend of his go by in his police car. I ran after him and yelled to him "**** is going to kill me, he is in a rage and he is going to kill me this time." The man laughed at me and said "I am off duty" he drove off and left me to die. This and worse had gone on for years until one honest cop came out when a neighbor heard this and called 911 that day. I am alive today because of him.

To me this case smacks of "cops being paid off by Mafia" I ask you was Casey just a young innocent girl that got herself in way over her head with the wrong people? Was Caylee taken by someone involved and sold into some child sex trade??

OR

Is Casey just a sociopath murderer who wanted a life of sex, drugs and rock and roll and didn't want a child to tie her down?" Did Casey use one to many Xanax (zanny the nanny) and accidently kill Caylee?"

Are we all crazy or is our intuition telling us that something about this case is just too bizarre to be true?

The reason this site has seen so many newbies is that it is one of the most fascinating and unbelievable cases I have ever seen in my lifetime

The friends she has at fusion won't talk because if I am right about this they too will be too afraid.

If Cindy and George are bucking the system, and I think they are, they probably won't get to far..unless like me they are sent one angel to help them.

A part of me thinks they are all just a bunch of loony tunes..and then there is the other part of me that says "What the H*** is going on here?"
I would love to believe the story that someone involved has Caylee but why take her or keep her for that matter? Until they come out and say that little girl is dead I will keep hoping she it not.

Also, the only thing that stunk was Casey's car.;)

[angelwngs]

CC, I think you are right. IMO, it is one of two things: either an awfully tragic version of a sick Jerry Springer dysfunctional family show or there is something rotten in Denmark. With the Huge revenue which a large business like that provides the city/county there is a lot of room for over looking certain issues which might be considered less than legal... Who knows??? :waitasec:

[LI_Mom]

I might be way off base, but it seems that not only does Casey seem somewhere out in the Twilight Zone in what one would consider normal concern and normal actions to attempt to find her missing 2 year old daughter, but it appears to me if she seems to be enjoying the spotlight and the attention that Caylee being missing has cast on her.

Has anyone reported her being distraught to the point of tears even over her own circumstances of being jailed? I have not heard or seen anything except her taking a strong, bold attitude in video and on audio tape. She seems to show no vunerability for Caylee or herself. She seems to be performing like a real tough cookie, in charge and not about to show any sign of compassion or vunerability.

I think we saw her cry at her bond hearing.

She must of really thought she would be going home that day. Life sucks when mommy & daddy can't afford your $500,000 bond, huh? :crazy:

[Nedthan Johns]

Trish playing the Angel's Advocate is a better color on you.

The reason the babysitter story doesn't float, is because in addition to making her up, she also made up 2 employees that don't even work or no longer worked for Universal who she said could back up her claim. How convenient. So you have a babysitter they can't find, in an apartment that had been vacant since Feb. The babysitters mothers house that Casey said she couldn't remember which one it was, a private number that was disconnected immediately after Casey called it back, no photos, no numbers and no other person that can collaborate Casey's story. And all this from a girl that is unemployed whose parents were caring for her and her daughter.

The babysitter story is a lie.

What the police did today, was to buy them some more time, but also I agree to put more pressure on Casey and her family. I have no doubts they called in a psychologist who carefully planned this out. They are still processing the DNA evidence and what they did is to put the ball back in Casey's court. How are they supposed to look for this person when they don't even have a description of what she looks like, no photos, no number, no address, no one else in Casey's life that can collaborate her story.

Within the next week or two Casey will be charged with murder. They certainly will have sufficant evidence from that decompostion in her car, Caylee's hair, the dirt, cell phone records, and a timeline of deception. Casey's lies are about to come to an end

[RR0004]

Tricia...I just wanted to let you know you're not alone...I've been thinking of Elizabeth Smart all day today.

[Vegas Bride]

Tricia you bring up some excellent questions. I remember the Elizabeth Smart case and how so many just knew who did it! No one knew about the ones who actually had taken her.

In Caylee's case, atleast for me, pictures really do say a thousand words. In the photos of Casey she looks like she's having the time of her life. What mother who has an ounce of love for her daughter could be doing what she was doing in the month she was missing? Did she look like she was missing any sleep? Was she so distraught that she couldn't put her make-up on right? Was her mascara smeared from all the tears she was shedding?
The video's of her in court, this is not a woman who's baby is missing, she knows exactly where that little one is and is fine with it.
Pictures of Caylee also say something to me, that beautiful little girl imo was old beyond her years. Her eyes speak of watching what she does/says so she does not upset someone, now who could that someone be?

No one else knows of this nanny, doesn't it make sense that if Caylee spent time with a nanny that she would have talked about her to her uncle or gp's? Someone else would have been aware of her?

Casey spent time with her boyfriend while Caylee was missing, yet he knew nothing about it, what mother could keep this quiet and not give any signs of being in distress?

I've given this case a lot of thought, trying to come up with a solution where one day Caylee could be found safe and very alive, my heart breaks that with everything I have seen imo that will not be the case. Much like Stacy Peterson, we know she is not on some beach somewhere in her bikini with her boyfriend.
Yes sometimes police can go down the wrong road but here we have Casey, with a pattern of lies going back many years. The woman who had physical custody of her daughter and now her daughter is gone.
If something had happened accidently, wouldn't she have called for help, tried to save her? If she had left her in a hot car and came out to find her dead, wouldn't there have been some kind of reaction right there that other people would have seen? Would she have simply gotten behind the wheel and drove off as if nothing was wrong?
The only reason I can find logical for Casey to keep what happened to Caylee secret is that there would be evidence to what she had done, that could not be explained away as some terrible accident.

VB

[Nedthan Johns]

Curiosity: Wow glad you are still with us. Sounds like you lived through a real nightmare. You stated "The reason this site has seen so many newbies is that it is one of the most fascinating and unbelievable cases I have ever seen in my lifetime."

This case is nothing, the Ramsey case is truly fascinating and unbelievable. That's a real "Who dun It Murder Mystery." Right down to the pineapple" ;-)

Everyone is coming unglued today because the cops didn't give us all what we want, answers. Now all of a sudden everyone one from crooked cops to the owners of a night club are involved. Stick to the clues folks. This is a slam dunk easy case. If the cops thought for one minute this little girl was alive they would be posting some type of drawing of this Zenida. If not, they would be responsible if they had any type of information that they were holding back on. So unless the whole police department is crooked, that's not the case. The investigators already know Caylee is dead. In fact this news conference today only confirmed that you see. They want to see what else Casey is going to come up with now why they take all of the days the need left to build their case until they are forced to charge her or let her go. THERE IS NO ZENIDA FOLKS. NO BABYSITTER. Tests would have already come back on that stain, hair and decomposition found in that car. There is NO rush to find this little girl, because she isn't anywhere to be found, alive. A whole police department is not in on some big conspiracy and Caylee wasn't sold or traded for drugs. Her mentally unstable sociopathic, boarderline personality disorder mother killed her. Follow the evidence, it all points to ONLY one person. CASEY ANTHONY

[Tricia]

Welcome Sugarbritches.

Sorry about the confusion. Just remember to stick to the topic on hand. The case.

Today Christina, ( the moderator extraordinaire) had to read through this whole forum and delete 14 inappropriate posts. Posts that were too personal, angry, or did not have to do with the case. This is what Christine was talking about in her post.

Sugarbritches, whatever forum you decide to participate in jump in and stick to the topic and life will be wonderful.

Don't get off topic, like say, a certain forum owner who hijacks a thread to welcome a poster and then goes on and on and on and on....lol :)

[Tricia]

...Occam's Razor will prevail in this case, MOO

Yes Bobby. Occam's Razor never fails.

[curiositycat]

Curiosity: Wow glad you are still with us. Sounds like you lived through a real nightmare. You stated "The reason this site has seen so many newbies is that it is one of the most fascinating and unbelievable cases I have ever seen in my lifetime."

This case is nothing, the Ramsey case is truly fascinating and unbelievable. That's a real "Who dun It Murder Mystery." Right down to the pineapple" ;-)

Everyone is coming unglued today because the cops didn't give us all what we want, answers. Now all of a sudden everyone one from crooked cops to the owners of a night club are involved. Stick to the clues folks. This is a slam dunk easy case. If the cops thought for one minute this little girl was alive they would be posting some type of drawing of this Zenida. If not, they would be responsible if they had any type of information that they were holding back on. So unless the whole police department is crooked, that's not the case. The investigators already know Caylee is dead. In fact this news conference today only confirmed that you see. They want to see what else Casey is going to come up with now why they take all of the days the need left to build their case until they are forced to charge her or let her go. THERE IS NO ZENIDA FOLKS. NO BABYSITTER. Tests would have already come back on that stain, hair and decomposition found in that car. There is NO rush to find this little girl, because she isn't anywhere to be found, alive. A whole police department is not in on some big conspiracy and Caylee wasn't sold or traded for drugs. Her mentally unstable sociopathic, boarderline personality disorder mother killed her. Follow the evidence, it all points to ONLY one person. CASEY ANTHONY

Nedthan I totally agree with you about what happened in this case.

This is the wiki definition of Devils Advocate a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position, sometimes one he or she disagrees with, for the sake of argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_argument). This process can be used to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure. I took the opposite positon here but if you have read my posts for the last two weeks I agree with your theory completely.


I wanted to take the devils advocate position. That's what I think the defense may do.:blowkiss:

[Nedthan Johns]

Well I think we all look better in angel wings and halos curiosity. Just curious ;-) what happened to your ex?

[wedavis]

This is a What if?
What if Casey was involved with some sort of gang or illegal activity. And for some reason the "gang" members took her and Caylee (in her car). Dropped the car off and told her they would keep Caylee until she did whatever they kidnapped her for. She spent the remainder of the days acutually looking for her. Had to act "normal" for the sake of the "gang" telling her not to talk. Finally had to admit to mom and then was arrested. The smell from the car could be from another source that the gang had it for. I am still convinced the Patrick visit in jail was a secret code of sorts.
I don't know guys...I guess I am just trying to put another spin on this in hopes that Caylee is still alive. I cannot imagine how crazy you could be as a mother to smile everyday knowing your daughter is dead. I can't wrap my head around it.


Would gang members be reading her facebook and myspace postings making sure she was acting right online too? Could it be a new style geek gang? :rolleyes:

[STEADFAST]

The main elements that point to Casey's guilt, her lying and the cadaver dog hits in her parents's yard and her car, don't really lead to a definitive conclusion that she was responsible for Caylee's possible death. Someone else could have killed Caylee, and Casey could be an accomplice after the fact, helping to dispose of the body and cover for the murderer.

[alphaville]

HI, I usually lurk. I've been trying to see/figure out this case from both sides and I am completely torn, so I've tried to just stick to the facts and hope something eventually makes sense.

A few things I keep seeing/reading on message boards like this is everyone says that they Casey "appears cold" or "never asks about Caylee." Ok, how much of Casey have we actually seen? How much of her day to day life in jail have we been able to view? Not a whole lot. I'd say maybe .5%. I can't make a judgment based on so little information. People also say in her phone call she says "They just want Caylee back. That is all they are worried about right now is getting Caylee back," As if she is saying "no one cares about me." Well, the rest of that conversation is rarely posted/mentioned. Casey then goes on to say, "And you know what, that is all I care about right now."

I also don't trust LE. It could be VERY possible that the "babysitter" was an illegal immigrant. There are a lot of illegals in FL. A lot in Orlando. Everyone seems so quick to dismiss that. I wonder why we never hear any information other than "she isn't in the phonebook" (basically) from LE about this woman? No sketch, no PSA, nothing.

Another point... people keep saying she lied about working at Universal and the two people she named didn't work there either. I also understand she worked for Kodak AT Universal. I worked for Disney for a year. I tell people I worked for Disney when I mention it. However, if you looked, I wouldn't have been on their books. They probably have zero record of me. I was a contract worker. This is typical. Universal is HUGE. It wouldn't be weird if people they asked didn't know who she was. Unless they were working with her directly.

Anyway, I am not saying it isn't possible she was lying. I am just saying it is possible she wasn't.

[curiositycat]

HI, I usually lurk. I've been trying to see/figure out this case from both sides and I am completely torn, so I've tried to just stick to the facts and hope something eventually makes sense.

A few things I keep seeing/reading on message boards like this is everyone says that they Casey "appears cold" or "never asks about Caylee." Ok, how much of Casey have we actually seen? How much of her day to day life in jail have we been able to view? Not a whole lot. I'd say maybe .5%. I can't make a judgment based on so little information. People also say in her phone call she says "They just want Caylee back. That is all they are worried about right now is getting Caylee back," As if she is saying "no one cares about me." Well, the rest of that conversation is rarely posted/mentioned. Casey then goes on to say, "And you know what, that is all I care about right now."

I also don't trust LE. It could be VERY possible that the "babysitter" was an illegal immigrant. There are a lot of illegals in FL. A lot in Orlando. Everyone seems so quick to dismiss that. I wonder why we never hear any information other than "she isn't in the phonebook" (basically) from LE about this woman? No sketch, no PSA, nothing.

Another point... people keep saying she lied about working at Universal and the two people she named didn't work there either. I also understand she worked for Kodak AT Universal. I worked for Disney for a year. I tell people I worked for Disney when I mention it. However, if you looked, I wouldn't have been on their books. They probably have zero record of me. I was a contract worker. This is typical. Universal is HUGE. It wouldn't be weird if people they asked didn't know who she was. Unless they were working with her directly.

Anyway, I am not saying it isn't possible she was lying. I am just saying it is possible she wasn't.
She took the police to Universal. They were with her. Then she looks at the detectives and says "My, Bad. I don't really work here."
If you look you will find a lot of different "threads" you might find what you are looking for there. :)
Again, welcome to WS's.

[bulletgirl2002]

I believe Casey definately knows what happened to Caylee - she is too composed not to. In my mind someone really does have Casey, but it is not without Casey's consent and knowledge. Casey is an evil mean little witch who is getting back at her family by playing this game while at the same time is enjoying her 15 minutes of fame. I think if she knew Calyee was dead, even if she did have something to do with it, she just wouldn't be this composed. Even Susan Smith cried and felt guilt and look what she did. There is of course no babysitter - probably some boyfriend who is enthralled with her. They should let her out of jail and monitor her if they want to find Caylee. I believe the parents are beginning to believe she is dead though.

[olive]

Tricia-

Thanks for posting this. There are so many angles that need considered that can sometimes be overshadowed.

I posted in a thread awhile back trying to remind people that LE have just as many corrupt members as the public in general and that we can't take everything they say as the gospel.

Personally, I have severe trust issues. I trust no one. And mostly I distrust those in positions where trust is supposed to be issued automatically (LE, etc.).

With this case in particular, there was something extremely disturbing that I found with LE in Casey's bond hearing. The hearing was for BOND, nothing else, and it seemed to me that LE turned it into some dog and pony show of convicting Casey of murder in the eyes of the public, going on and on about the evidence seized from the vehicle. It would be one thing if Casey was being held on suspicion of homicide- then perhaps that subject would be valid at her bond hearing. But it wasn't valid- Casey was being held basically for lying, and I can't understand how the judge presiding over the courtroom allowed it to transpire into a circus hearing over suspicion of homicide. Two completely different charges. It reminded me of Judge Harry at the Anna Nicole hearing where they were trying to determine where Anna Nicole should be buried. That hearing turned into a paternity hearing. Again, two completely different things! I remember throwing my remote at the TV during that hearing yelling "what the h#%l is going on with the legal climate in this country!". Sure, it was scandelous and great entertainment- but THAT IS NOT WHAT OUR LEGAL SYSTEM IS FOR. Everything has turned into the National Enquirer these days- now, including our courtrooms. This drives me bonkers!

If Websleuths functioned like the courtroom in Casey's bond hearing, we'd have all the mods going nuts screaming "OFF-TOPIC" over and over.

What a mess! IMO

[cricket]

With this case in particular, there was something extremely disturbing that I found with LE in Casey's bond hearing. The hearing was for BOND, nothing else, and it seemed to me that LE turned it into some dog and pony show of convicting Casey of murder in the eyes of the public, going on and on about the evidence seized from the vehicle. It would be one thing if Casey was being held on suspicion of homicide- then perhaps that subject would be valid at her bond hearing. But it wasn't valid- Casey was being held basically for lying, and I can't understand how the judge presiding over the courtroom allowed it to transpire into a circus hearing over suspicion of homicide. Two completely different charges. It reminded me of Judge Harry at the Anna Nicole hearing where they were trying to determine where Anna Nicole should be buried. That hearing turned into a paternity hearing. Again, two completely different things! I remember throwing my remote at the TV during that hearing yelling "what the h#%l is going on with the legal climate in this country!". Sure, it was scandelous and great entertainment- but THAT IS NOT WHAT OUR LEGAL SYSTEM IS FOR. Everything has turned into the National Enquirer these days- now, including our courtrooms. This drives me bonkers!

That seemed strange to me too. I have mixed feelings about whether she should be out, but it really seems like LE & the judge conspired to make the bond about more than the charges at hand. For comparison, a child died in my city this week and the mother's boyfriend was charged with murder. The mother was charged with felony child neglect for failing to report earlier abuse (by the boyfriend). She was not home when the boyfriend killed the child. Her bond for the felony child neglect charge was $4,000. That's a long way from $500k.

[RoseRed]

Tricia you bring up some excellent questions. I remember the Elizabeth Smart case and how so many just knew who did it! No one knew about the ones who actually had taken her.

The video's of her in court, this is not a woman who's baby is missing, she knows exactly where that little one is and is fine with it.


What if Casey knows where Caylee is because she is being hid for some reason. That is the only explanation for Casey's lack of concern. The tough stance and refusing to talk. But Why? Why would she have Caylee in hiding and who would hide her and not be afraid to call LE ?

[LI_Mom]

That seemed strange to me too. I have mixed feelings about whether she should be out, but it really seems like LE & the judge conspired to make the bond about more than the charges at hand. For comparison, a child died in my city this week and the mother's boyfriend was charged with murder. The mother was charged with felony child neglect for failing to report earlier abuse (by the boyfriend). She was not home when the boyfriend killed the child. Her bond for the felony child neglect charge was $4,000. That's a long way from $500k.

But in Casey's case.... the charges are child neglect, lying to investigators and interfering with an investigation.

Not to mention her own mother called 911 & mentioned the smell of a dead body in the car Casey had been using.


LE could see right from the start that they were dealing with very unusual circumstances here.... they felt the best way to get her to reveal Caylee's whereabouts was to make sure she stayed in jail.

Right from the get go, LE's releasing of her phone calls seemed geared towards pushing Casey's buttons enough to break her down.


What if LE announced they give up & let her go & announce it's a 'cold case?'

Her family would be besides themselves & might actually beat the crap out of her to solve the case.

[cricket]

But in Casey's case.... the charges are child neglect, lying to investigators and interfering with an investigation.

Not to mention her own mother called 911 & mentioned the smell of a dead body in the car Casey had been using.


LE could see right from the start that they were dealing with very unusual circumstances here.... they felt the best way to get her to reveal Caylee's whereabouts was to make sure she stayed in jail.

Right from the get go, LE's releasing of her phone calls seemed geared towards pushing Casey's buttons enough to break her down.


What if LE announced they give up & let her go & announce it's a 'cold case?'

Her family would be besides themselves & might actually beat the crap out of her to solve the case.

I think only the child neglect is a felony and the other two are misdemeanors. I understand why they wanted such a high bond, but it is unusually high for the current charges.

[LI_Mom]

I think only the child neglect is a felony and the other two are misdemeanors. I understand why they wanted such a high bond, but it is unusually high for the current charges.

True.

In this case though.... you have child neglect PLUS the smell of decomposition.

I guess when you don't even bother to report your kid is missing for a month... it bothers people a little. lol

[pixies]

Caylee's Nanny is an illegal alien who is afraid to come forward. She may be already in Mexico (or any other country) and if she is down there in some remote town, she will never be found.
I believe if the "Nanny" took her, she will be safe.

That is the only other option I could think of that would have Casey being innocent in this.

I personally believe Casey is evil and left her daughter to die. Her family is covering their butts like crazy by lying on TV.

HEY GRANDMA! STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE REPORTERS ON YOUR LAWN AND WORRY ABOUT FINDING YOUR GRAND DAUGHTER! YOUR GRASS WILL GROW BACK BUT YOUR GRAND DAUGHTER WON'T!.

I swear those people are insane. (prior to this!)

[Hart]

Exactly! There are very few undisputed facts in this case- at least from the outside looking in! No one here can do more than form opinions based on opinions, speculation and gossip. The truth is something only a few people know- and until it's out there, ANYTHING is possible.

[RoseRed]

I think only the child neglect is a felony and the other two are misdemeanors. I understand why they wanted such a high bond, but it is unusually high for the current charges.

Not only is it too high for the charges but she hasn't even been charged as yet. So basically they are just holding her in jail for their own reasons. Really seems illegal to do that. They really should have charged her or let her go.

I am not trying to say she is innocent. Just the way laws should be. Either charge or release. I had never heard of a 33 day law. I always thought it was like 72 hours and if not charged you had to be released. Boy was I incorrect.

[Vegas Bride]

Caylee's Nanny is an illegal alien who is afraid to come forward. She may be already in Mexico (or any other country) and if she is down there in some remote town, she will never be found.
I believe if the "Nanny" took her, she will be safe.

If the nanny was real and had an apartment, other people would have been aware of her, would have seen Caylee being dropped off, picked up etc. No one as far as we know has come forward to report seeing Caylee with a nanny. There is a 225,000 reward, imo if someone knew of a neighbor who was watching this little girl they'd be contacting the police.

VB

[SouthernMom]

Has anyone reported her being distraught to the point of tears even over her own circumstances of being jailed? I have not heard or seen anything except her taking a strong, bold attitude in video and on audio tape. She seems to show no vunerability for Caylee or herself. She seems to be performing like a real tough cookie, in charge and not about to show any sign of compassion or vunerability.

I saw one video of her crying. The story at this link may have been the occasion.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/7/23/casey_anthony_remains_in_jail.html

[angelwngs]

i saw one video of her crying. The story at this link may have been the occasion.

http://www.cfnews13.com/news/local/2008/7/23/casey_anthony_remains_in_jail.html

ty, sm. :)

[teedie2]

I saw one video of her crying. The story at this link may have been the occasion.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/7/23/casey_anthony_remains_in_jail.html


Crying for herself. Not for Caylee. :mad:

[ShouldBWorking]

have any of you ask other people about this case, I have asked people at work, church and even at a baby shower today and I'm amazed at how many people don't know anything about it

[Vegas Bride]

Now that the People magazine is out more people will be aware of Caylee missing but some will still remain clueless.
I've mentioned it to a few people, 1 wasn't to sure about the details, another knew about it but not as much as me, websleuths does an excellent job of keeping me informed :)

VB

[Stoelly]

I look at the whole family's demeanor - and I must say, they are all acting like it is without a doubt that they believe Caylee is alive. The police are keeping very low profiles - with Friday climaxing in no new information . And then my mind goes to those two little boys that were one after only 4 days - one after 4 years!!!!!!!! Shawn Hornbeck was living RIGHT IN PLAIN VIEW OF THE NEIGHBORS! I remember feeling like, there is room for hope in this world when he was found! So, anything is possible with this case. I pray for a miraculous outcome!

[MayMay]

have any of you ask other people about this case, I have asked people at work, church and even at a baby shower today and I'm amazed at how many people don't know anything about it
same here, no one knows much about it.

[MayMay]

have any of you ask other people about this case, I have asked people at work, church and even at a baby shower today and I'm amazed at how many people don't know anything about it
I do need to add that when I fill people in on the story the first response I have gotten from several people is that she sold her.

[Fandy]

Casey's behavior is bizarre,(we can all agree on that), it is the only reason I have a reasonable doubt that there is a chance Caylee is really alive.

I cannot fathom how she detaches herself so easily.

[softsoul]

Curiosity: Wow glad you are still with us. Sounds like you lived through a real nightmare. You stated "The reason this site has seen so many newbies is that it is one of the most fascinating and unbelievable cases I have ever seen in my lifetime."

This case is nothing, the Ramsey case is truly fascinating and unbelievable. That's a real "Who dun It Murder Mystery." Right down to the pineapple" ;-)

Everyone is coming unglued today because the cops didn't give us all what we want, answers. Now all of a sudden everyone one from crooked cops to the owners of a night club are involved. Stick to the clues folks. This is a slam dunk easy case. If the cops thought for one minute this little girl was alive they would be posting some type of drawing of this Zenida. If not, they would be responsible if they had any type of information that they were holding back on. So unless the whole police department is crooked, that's not the case. The investigators already know Caylee is dead. In fact this news conference today only confirmed that you see. They want to see what else Casey is going to come up with now why they take all of the days the need left to build their case until they are forced to charge her or let her go. THERE IS NO ZENIDA FOLKS. NO BABYSITTER. Tests would have already come back on that stain, hair and decomposition found in that car. There is NO rush to find this little girl, because she isn't anywhere to be found, alive. A whole police department is not in on some big conspiracy and Caylee wasn't sold or traded for drugs. Her mentally unstable sociopathic, boarderline personality disorder mother killed her. Follow the evidence, it all points to ONLY one person. CASEY ANTHONY

I agree that this case seems to have little mystery compared to other crimes. Casey's behavior is bizarre to say the least, especially considering she had weeks to come up with a story and only came up with lies which were so easy to expose. Unfortunately, a parent killing their child and then attempting to cover it up is not that unusual at all. However, this case would be very bizarre if Casey's lies were actually an attempt to protect her child. The police and family continue to portray her as uncooperative in order to make "the real perp" believe she is the only suspect in Caylee's disappearance. This is why they are dragging out the release of any test results. Now THAT would be bizarre and unbelievable....which is why no one believes it...including me!!