Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #15

[wirehair]

I can't find Toll Brothers Homes on the Register of Deeds site. Maybe I'm not doing something right. I want to see who sold it to them.

[FullDisclosure]

Weird...this was not my quoted post!!! Something wrong with our quote system.


The quote feature did that to me earlier today--must have eaten something that disagrees...

[ncnative]

Or, Mom, are you going back to the dump site to see if the post light is on? Mom, what ARE you up to? I'm laughing picturing you waiting til your husband goes to bed so you can go out and snoop around. Ha. Maybe I'll drive to the two or three spots I think you may be, and scare the doo out of you.

[reddress58]

I can't find Toll Brothers Homes on the Register of Deeds site. Maybe I'm not doing something right. I want to see who sold it to them.
I'll help you. Give me a little time.

[The Saint]

oh, JTF, it Sounds like you are a tad jealous maybe ?

like RC pointed out she bought the $1200 computer case for Brad, not herself.

Do you honestly think she went out an bought all of this expensive art work without his approval ? Look at the separation agreement, as it seems like Brad had a passion for expensive art too.

$200 pedicures ? I just called my wife and she said they run around $50-$60 tops at the spas in the area. if she paid $200, it was full a full day treatment including massage at a resort spa....exaggeration imo

BMW X-5 ? Sure Nancy wanted it but the fact remains Brad signed on the dotted line to get both BMW's.
If he did not want them, they would not have them.....Nancy was totally at his mercy in financial situations.

JTFax,
sounds like you're just a man-hater!:whip2:

[The Saint]

He does say that the 325 had been Nancy's car prior to the purchase of the X5.

I know that some of her friends' affidavits address her having to walk places and take taxis and that could be true in some instances if they shared a car. I know that when we had one car, I would drive my husband to work and pick him up. That way, I'd have a car to drive the kids places and run errands.


he had things to do, mistresses to see. he needed the car!

[momto3kids]

I decided to go by MeadowRidge to where NC was found. We, including myself wanted to know about what it was like back there at night time.

So this is why I didn't want to say where I went!! What if someone that is following this site knew that? Crying out loud I had a child with me!!:mad:

Once you enter the new home section the lights are the brightest of any subdivision I have ever been in. They are these huge globes that radiate.

There is one light placed on a corner of each intersecting street and at the end of each cul-de-sac.

Once I turned off Fielding I could drive with no headlights.

In the cul-de-sac where NC was found it is lit up with the street lamp in the cul-de-sac and on the corner. No lights would have been needed to dump the body. I could see the purple wreath of flowers with out headlights. Dim but recognizable.

I didn't stay to take photo's because...

a car had followed in from Holly Springs Rd to almost the last turnoff on Fielding. Then, there was a man and woman walking Fielding at 9:45, so I didn't want them to call the police for a vehicle going back there.

I have no idea if the street light was there before NC or if it has been since she was found there. I think the video might show if it was or not.


That's all I can give you for now.

[Just the Fax]

I can't find Toll Brothers Homes on the Register of Deeds site. Maybe I'm not doing something right. I want to see who sold it to them.

They bought the lots in the name TOLL NC LP

[wirehair]

Thanks bunches

They bought the lots in the name TOLL NC LP

[wirehair]

Now Mom, NO going back there at 4 am to see how many house lights are on unless we have a caravan.

[The Saint]

thanks for the report, momto3.

if she had telegraphed it, brad or another creep may have been waiting there...

who wants to volunteer to drive down the road to the actual dump at night to see why brad opted for the unbuilt subdivision rather than the dump?

[raisincharlie]

I decided to go by MeadowRidge to where NC was found. We, including myself wanted to know about what it was like back there at night time.

So this is why I didn't want to say where I went!! What if someone that is following this site knew that? Crying out loud I had a child with me!!:mad:

Once you enter the new home section the lights are the brightest of any subdivision I have ever been in. They are these huge globes that radiate.

There is one light placed on a corner of each intersecting street and at the end of each cul-de-sac.

Once I turned off Fielding I could drive with no headlights.

In the cul-de-sac where NC was found it is lit up with the street lamp in the cul-de-sac and on the corner. No lights would have been needed to dump the body. I could see the purple wreath of flowers with out headlights. Dim but recognizable.

I didn't stay to take photo's because...

a car had followed in from Holly Springs Rd to almost the last turnoff on Fielding. Then, there was a man and woman walking Fielding at 9:45, so I didn't want them to call the police for a vehicle going back there.

I have no idea if the street light was there before NC or if it has been since she was found there. I think the video might show if it was or not.


That's all I can give you for now.

Thanks Momt3K - don't blame you a bit for being cautious.

SO if the light was there, its pretty bright aye ? Hmmmm, quess someone could dump a body as easily in the day as at night then.

[CyberPro]

I decided to go by MeadowRidge to where NC was found. We, including myself wanted to know about what it was like back there at night time.

So this is why I didn't want to say where I went!! What if someone that is following this site knew that? Crying out loud I had a child with me!!:mad:

Once you enter the new home section the lights are the brightest of any subdivision I have ever been in. They are these huge globes that radiate.

There is one light placed on a corner of each intersecting street and at the end of each cul-de-sac.

Once I turned off Fielding I could drive with no headlights.

In the cul-de-sac where NC was found it is lit up with the street lamp in the cul-de-sac and on the corner. No lights would have been needed to dump the body. I could see the purple wreath of flowers with out headlights. Dim but recognizable.

I didn't stay to take photo's because...

a car had followed in from Holly Springs Rd to almost the last turnoff on Fielding. Then, there was a man and woman walking Fielding at 9:45, so I didn't want them to call the police for a vehicle going back there.

I have no idea if the street light was there before NC or if it has been since she was found there. I think the video might show if it was or not.


That's all I can give you for now.


Mom,

Thanks for the detective work. I understand why you would not tell that ahead of time, especially with a child in the car. IMHO, you actually needed a {Shiver} smiley for that part :)

I have to get up very early to catch a flight in the AM, to the point that I might not even go to bed at all, but I have been thinking about checking out the HT and the dump site at that time. Now that you have posted about the light level at the dump site, I can cross that one off the list.

Not sure I will make the HT visit either. I can STAY UP late, but GETTING UP early does not do great things to my level of coherence.

CyberPro

[momto3kids]

Now Mom, NO going back there at 4 am to see how many house lights are on unless we have a caravan.

Now that is a deal! I just couldn't believe people were walking at that time...I just knew I would have the police waiting when I got out of the subdivision. But it is County so it would take them awhile I guess to get to me. I hope so!

[reddress58]

Thanks bunches
Wirehair, that is their corporate name. They probably pieced together that parcel from several different land owners. That is why I told you I needed time. I'm am in real estate. Usually when a developer puts together a subdivision, they don't buy the entire piece from one person. Sometimes they need to aquire the land, then get zoning changes, enviromental tests, etc. etc. So, we wouldn't know who owned that particular piece of ground before Toll without a little reseach. It could be time consuming. Is there any particular reason you'd like to know?

[Just the Fax]

Thanks Momt3K - don't blame you a bit for being cautious.

SO if the light was there, its pretty bright aye ? Hmmmm, quess someone could dump a body as easily in the day as at night then.

Sun up at 6 am...my dogs tell me every morning :)

[momto3kids]

Mom,

Thanks for the detective work. I understand why you would not tell that ahead of time, especially with a child in the car. IMHO, you actually needed a {Shiver} smiley for that part :)

I have to get up very early to catch a flight in the AM, to the point that I might not even go to bed at all, but I have been thinking about checking out the HT and the dump site at that time. Now that you have posted about the light level at the dump site, I can cross that one off the list.

Not sure I will make the HT visit either. I can STAY UP late, but GETTING UP early does not do great things to my level of coherence.

CyberPro

I took the camera to get a shot of how lit up it was and my child froze. She tried, but it didn't come out at all. Maybe someone else can try or if I get someone else to go with me...

I didn't want to spend much time back there since people saw me go back there.

Try HT and let us know.:)

[reddress58]

Thanks Momt3K - don't blame you a bit for being cautious.

SO if the light was there, its pretty bright aye ? Hmmmm, quess someone could dump a body as easily in the day as at night then.
Guess we can discount our theory about it being too dark to find a more secluded place to place (or toss) NC body. However it does reinforce our idea that the perp was in a SUPER rush to dispose. A few more steps and she wouldn't have been spotted for days!! If the light stays on until the wee hours of the morning.....if the body was disposed in the wee hours of the morning...if....if...if.

Anyway, thanks, Mom, for taking the chance. Not trying to bust your efforts at all. Just frustrated with this case like everyone else. Remember...I did offer to go out ther with you. I would have tonight, also, if you'd asked.

[momto3kids]

Thanks Momt3K - don't blame you a bit for being cautious.

SO if the light was there, its pretty bright aye ? Hmmmm, quess someone could dump a body as easily in the day as at night then.


Hi RC...yes it would be very easy to do. Again, I do not know when the lights got placed there, but if it was before NC was found they are certainly bright.

[ncnative]

The only car I ever see or hear, here near the Cooper's and my home area is the paper delivery guy around 4 AM, to anywhere near 5 or 6 AM on weekends. Wonder if any newspaper delivery folks were out and about that night?

[Onescout]

I decided to go by MeadowRidge to where NC was found. We, including myself wanted to know about what it was like back there at night time.

So this is why I didn't want to say where I went!! What if someone that is following this site knew that? Crying out loud I had a child with me!!:mad:

Once you enter the new home section the lights are the brightest of any subdivision I have ever been in. They are these huge globes that radiate.

There is one light placed on a corner of each intersecting street and at the end of each cul-de-sac.

Once I turned off Fielding I could drive with no headlights.

In the cul-de-sac where NC was found it is lit up with the street lamp in the cul-de-sac and on the corner. No lights would have been needed to dump the body. I could see the purple wreath of flowers with out headlights. Dim but recognizable.

I didn't stay to take photo's because...

a car had followed in from Holly Springs Rd to almost the last turnoff on Fielding. Then, there was a man and woman walking Fielding at 9:45, so I didn't want them to call the police for a vehicle going back there.

I have no idea if the street light was there before NC or if it has been since she was found there. I think the video might show if it was or not.


That's all I can give you for now.

Okay,Mom, you are official, you are now a superhero, must buy cape!

Question, if you could see easily in the cul-de-sac, could you be seen easily?

Was someone taking a chance going out there to dump dear NC, could they have been seen. Or where they just counting on the hour being their cover.

I imagine that area has a lot more activity these days.....

[ncnative]

(I realize that there are no homes down in the dump site cul-de-sac, so there would be no newspaper deliverer that far back. But you never know if the delivery guy might have to take a whizz or something, and go back there.)

[raisincharlie]

Hi RC...yes it would be very easy to do. Again, I do not know when the lights got placed there, but if it was before NC was found they are certainly bright.

I noticed you said you could see the wreath - a little dim but visible. Looking at the Sky 5 video taken at the scene, LE had pulled in a bank of portable lights and a generator - it is visible in the video. They would need that to look down the slope no doubt. Not sure if that means there was light there from the pole lamps or not. Hmmmmm

[Just the Fax]

Guess we can discount our theory about it being too dark to find a more secluded place to place (or toss) NC body. However it does reinforce our idea that the perp was in a SUPER rush to dispose. A few more steps and she wouldn't have been spotted for days!! If the light stays on until the wee hours of the morning.....if the body was disposed in the wee hours of the morning...if....if...if.

Anyway, thanks, Mom, for taking the chance. Not trying to bust your efforts at all. Just frustrated with this case like everyone else. Remember...I did offer to go out ther with you. I would have tonight, also, if you'd asked.

After driving around that area last week, I thought of other areas he could have easily dumped a body undetected. Other than the route he took (Holly Springs Rd), almost every area near that house is fully developed, well lite and established. I suppose he was thinking 'construction site' when he turned to drive the mile in the back of the subdivision (large sign showing 'new homes')

It was a quickly devised plan after he killed her in a heat of passion...MOO

[momto3kids]

Hee!

I can see it now < ringing of doorbell >

Boxers or Briefs?

:floorlaugh: Yep...I did the survey story and he said neither!

[Fairy1]

Hi RC...yes it would be very easy to do. Again, I do not know when the lights got placed there, but if it was before NC was found they are certainly bright.

Is it possible the lights are on some sort of timer? I would consider it risky to dump a body in a brightly lit area - even in the middle of the night!

[mahmoo]

:clap::clap::clap:mom............I don't think there's an Academy Award for sleuthing but.....if there was.......you'd be my nominee for the Sleuther of the Year Award!!!!!!!!!:clap::clap::clap:

I might make up a certificate for you at least :)

Seriously though.....thanks for going and reporting back to us.....we're fortunate to have you here.

[Just the Fax]

(I realize that there are no homes down in the dump site cul-de-sac, so there would be no newspaper deliverer that far back. But you never know if the delivery guy might have to take a whizz or something, and go back there.)

At that hour (4-6 am ) I say he would just pull it out bout anywhere....behind a tree of course:Banane28:

[Onescout]

Now you are taxing my brain. I need to get my "notebook" out. I do recall, and right now I cannot tell you where I saw this cited (but I will find it) that Alice Stubbs, her lawyer had advised her to return to Canada. There was a subpeona to Interact by the plaintiff side of the custody case. Reason unknown except I believe expert testimony concerning abuse can be ruled out - experts get paid not subpeona'd. You could well be right about Interact , I just have mixed thoughts about that.

Brad losing control - I have no doubt this would push him over the edge. I do not believe he would have handled it well, it would have been seen as rejection as well. I don't think those things were ever in his plans. He was willing to let them go in April until he saw a draft separation agreement - no way would he allow her to leave.

Hey RC what are WE thinkin' , I would imagine all this stuff about passports etc. became moot the moment she told her family and her father (allegedly) got involved, I'm sure he had some (alleged) pull. Just like that smooth and quick ex parte...try doing one of those on your own!
Yeah that's what I'm thinkin' , once dad got involved (allegedly) passports where a minor concern.
It seems to me everyone, LE, friends,family EVERYONE is playing their cards very close to the vest.
You know how to play "hearts" with cards? WHen you have enough cards to shoot the moon (aces and a ton of trump) you just hold your cards close and wait to run all the hands. Marvelous feeling.

[Just the Fax]

Is it possible the lights are on some sort of timer? I would consider it risky to dump a body in a brightly lit area - even in the middle of the night!

There is a huge theft issue with homes under construction.
I am sure the street lights burn all night

[momto3kids]

Okay,Mom, you are official, you are now a superhero, must buy cape!

Question, if you could see easily in the cul-de-sac, could you be seen easily?

Was someone taking a chance going out there to dump dear NC, could they have been seen. Or where they just counting on the hour being their cover.

I imagine that area has a lot more activity these days.....

The closest occupied home might be able to see a vehicle back there from their second story window, but they would most likely be the only ones. With the trees it could be obstructed just as well.

But where the vehicle would have been parked in the cul-de-sac no one would see it since it swings to the right once you enter it.

My thoughts are NO way anyone would see this.

[Jess]

Hey RC what are WE thinkin' , I would imagine all this stuff about passports etc. became moot the moment she told her family and her father (allegedly) got involved, I'm sure he had some (alleged) pull. Just like that smooth and quick ex parte...try doing one of those on your own!
Yeah that's what I'm thinkin' , once dad got involved (allegedly) passports where a minor concern.
It seems to me everyone, LE, friends,family EVERYONE is playing their cards very close to the vest.
You know how to play "hearts" with cards? WHen you have enough cards to shoot the moon (aces and a ton of trump) you just hold your cards close and wait to run all the hands. Marvelous feeling.


What pull do you think a provincial employee would have in NC ? I think they immediately got hold of her lawyer and it was the lawyer who would have advised them about the ex parte etc. etc.

[Fairy1]

There is a huge theft issue with homes under construction.
I am sure the street lights burn all night

Good point - but still very risky! The killer must have been in an awful hurry. Maybe had some grocery shopping to do! :confused:

[SleuthyGal]

I decided to go by MeadowRidge to where NC was found. We, including myself wanted to know about what it was like back there at night time.

Once you enter the new home section the lights are the brightest of any subdivision I have ever been in. They are these huge globes that radiate.

There is one light placed on a corner of each intersecting street and at the end of each cul-de-sac.

Once I turned off Fielding I could drive with no headlights.

Holy cow! Thanks for checking that out! I had NO IDEA it would be so bright back there. That surprises me! I'm shocked. SHOCKED I say!

[Deduction]

Well, by all accounts she was not a selfish, narcissistic loner that needed personal web pages to brag about her personal accomplishments.

It seems from some accounts she was just the opposite. The life of the party, big time spender, an attention seeker in real life without the use of web pages. Before I get criticized for putting down a person that is deceased, is that really any worse than the things that have been said here about a man that is possibly innocent?

I hang in the background usually and bite my tongue, but sometimes this board gets so one sided just feel like someone needs to same something.
Back to just reading I hope.

[raisincharlie]

Hey RC what are WE thinkin' , I would imagine all this stuff about passports etc. became moot the moment she told her family and her father (allegedly) got involved, I'm sure he had some (alleged) pull. Just like that smooth and quick ex parte...try doing one of those on your own!
Yeah that's what I'm thinkin' , once dad got involved (allegedly) passports where a minor concern.
It seems to me everyone, LE, friends,family EVERYONE is playing their cards very close to the vest.
You know how to play "hearts" with cards? WHen you have enough cards to shoot the moon (aces and a ton of trump) you just hold your cards close and wait to run all the hands. Marvelous feeling.

I do play Hearts and yes shooting the moon is pretty awesome !

I think her Dad had more than enough contacts to provide Nancy all the information she needed with respect to passports and whatnot. That Ex Parte - definitely slick and rapid no doubt but I would say a lot of the credit for that goes to Tharrington Smith. I have watched the video of her family many times, where her Dad said he was not worried, her Mom was - and I did get the feeling he had a plan, thus no worry.

I am however still amazed by the rapidity with which the family concluded that Nancy did not go running Saturday morning. I can't imagine that statement being placed in an Ex Parte without some really firm and i do mean firm belief that it was true. This still has me puzzling!

Any ideas ?

[reddress58]

(I realize that there are no homes down in the dump site cul-de-sac, so there would be no newspaper deliverer that far back. But you never know if the delivery guy might have to take a whizz or something, and go back there.)
Our paper guy usually comes about 5:30 on weekdays...a little later on weekends. I'm assuming their block is serviced at the same time as ours. If BC left his house before then, he would not have been spotted by the paper guy.

[mahmoo]

It seems from some accounts she was just the opposite. The life of the party, big time spender, an attention seeker in real life without the use of web pages. Before I get criticized for putting down a person that is deceased, is that really any worse than the things that have been said here about a man that is possibly innocent?

I hang in the background usually and bite my tongue, but sometimes this board gets so one sided just feel like someone needs to same something.
Back to just reading I hope.


You have a point and I certainly respect that.

And nah.......don't go back to just reading. All views are what makes it worth discussing in the first place.

[momto3kids]

Holy cow! Thanks for checking that out! I had NO IDEA it would be so bright back there. That surprises me! I'm shocked. SHOCKED I say!

My biggest surprise is the number of lights along the steet where the newhomes are under construction, right off Fielding. I think there were 6 along there. But on the other hand it is going to be where the rec area? is for the subdivision.

[reddress58]

The closest occupied home might be able to see a vehicle back there from their second story window, but they would most likely be the only ones. With the trees it could be obstructed just as well.

But where the vehicle would have been parked in the cul-de-sac no one would see it since it swings to the right once you enter it.

My thoughts are NO way anyone would see this.
...and obviously....NOBODY DID!!

[The Saint]

Hey RC what are WE thinkin' , I would imagine all this stuff about passports etc. became moot the moment she told her family and her father (allegedly) got involved, I'm sure he had some (alleged) pull. Just like that smooth and quick ex parte...try doing one of those on your own!
Yeah that's what I'm thinkin' , once dad got involved (allegedly) passports where a minor concern.
It seems to me everyone, LE, friends,family EVERYONE is playing their cards very close to the vest.
You know how to play "hearts" with cards? WHen you have enough cards to shoot the moon (aces and a ton of trump) you just hold your cards close and wait to run all the hands. Marvelous feeling.


the ex parte ruling happened quickly because children were in danger. this is not unusual and i don't think it had anything to do with who nancy's parents are.

i'm confused as to way you think her dad had extra pull in getting the passports or that they were a minor concern.

the court ordered brad to had over the passports would be my guess, in the judge's intitial temporary custody hearing.

the children's mother had been murdered, most probably by the the children's father who is thought to be unstable.

[SleuthyGal]

My dog insists it's "time for breakfast" anytime between 5:15am - 6am despite MY insisting breakfast is never before 7am. Harrrumph! Maybe I should send her to HT--hell, at that hour she can take the car keys, drive herself, and I wouldn't care.

[Fairy1]

I would like to comment on the discussion earlier today regarding BC and his long sleeves.

Don't know about the grocery store attire, but I recall the speculation about him wearing long sleeves during the search and MAKING A POINT about telling his fellow searchers how he was being bitten and torn up during the search. Aside from the fact that it was reportedly too hot and humid for long sleeves during those days, he - IMO - attempted to create an explanation for whatever injuries he may have had on his arms.

JMOHO :)

[SleuthyGal]

My biggest surprise is the number of lights along the steet where the newhomes are under construction, right off Fielding. I think there were 6 along there. But on the other hand it is going to be where the rec area? is for the subdivision.

I wouldn't be surprised for already in-progress homes to be so brightly lit, but I do find it surprising that the dump area way in the back, where those lots haven't even been sold or marked yet, to be so well lit. Unless, as you suggested, those lights were added after NC's body was found? That would be an interesting question to have answered.

[momto3kids]

I would like to comment on the discussion earlier today regarding BC and his long sleeves.

Don't know about the grocery store attire, but I recall the speculation about him wearing long sleeves during the search and MAKING A POINT about telling his fellow searchers how he was being bitten and torn up during the search. Aside from the fact that it was reportedly too hot and humid for long sleeves during those days, he - IMO - attempted to create an explanation for whatever injuries he may have had on his arms.

JMOHO :)

You are absolutely correct about him during the search, what he said and what he was wearing.

[SleuthyGal]

I recall the speculation about him wearing long sleeves during the search and MAKING A POINT about telling his fellow searchers how he was being bitten and torn up during the search. Aside from the fact that it was reportedly too hot and humid for long sleeves during those days, he - IMO - attempted to create an explanation for whatever injuries he may have had on his arms.

Oh now THAT is interesting. Bitten by what? Mosquitos usually bite early morning and late afternoon/evening, but disappear in the heat of the day. And, what were the other searchers wearing? Short sleeves? Or were they advised to cover up?

[reddress58]

the ex parte ruling happened quickly because children were in danger. this is not unusual and i don't think it had anything to do with who nancy's parents are.

i'm confused as to way you think her dad had extra pull in getting the passports or that they were a minor concern.

the court ordered brad to had over the passports would be my guess, in the judge's intitial temporary custody hearing.

the children's mother had been murdered, most probably by the the children's father who is thought to be unstable.
Oh my gosh. YOur last sentence it what it was in a nutshell. Our court system isn't stupid. WE aren't stupid. Cary PD isn't stupid. I think they all learned from the Michelle Young case.

[Fairy1]

It seems from some accounts she was just the opposite. The life of the party, big time spender, an attention seeker in real life without the use of web pages. Before I get criticized for putting down a person that is deceased, is that really any worse than the things that have been said here about a man that is possibly innocent?

I hang in the background usually and bite my tongue, but sometimes this board gets so one sided just feel like someone needs to same something.
Back to just reading I hope.

Welcome and your comments are certainly appreciated and valid. There are many differing views on this board and MANY posters very much on the fence. The thing is, Brad has not been murdered and if you spend much time on Websleuths, you know that he would be quite far from the first husband to kill his wife.

Don't bite your tongue! Tell us what you think and WHY!!! :)

[reddress58]

I wouldn't be surprised for already in-progress homes to be so brightly lit, but I do find it surprising that the dump area way in the back, where those lots haven't even been sold or marked yet, to be so well lit. Unless, as you suggested, those lights were added after NC's body was found? That would be an interesting question to have answered.
I'm going to call Toll Bros. tomorrow. I know some people who work at that sales office. I'll report back.

[SleuthyGal]

I'm going to call Toll Bros. tomorrow. I know some people who work at that sales office. I'll report back.

Oh thank you Reddress! That will be very useful info.

[Onescout]

What pull do you think a provincial employee would have in NC ? I think they immediately got hold of her lawyer and it was the lawyer who would have advised them about the ex parte etc. etc.

Here is a link to the dept. NC dad was Exec. director of: http://www.child.alberta.ca/home/

Ex parte and international custody is a biggie. It is not very easy to take American children out of the country.
It is not easy to take children away from someone who has not been named a person of interest or charged with a crime.
And if I was a pit bull of a judge, I would've wanted more hard proof that BC was a threat to his children, in order for them to leave the US.

So I'm just sayin' allegedly.....

[The Saint]

I would like to comment on the discussion earlier today regarding BC and his long sleeves.

Don't know about the grocery store attire, but I recall the speculation about him wearing long sleeves during the search and MAKING A POINT about telling his fellow searchers how he was being bitten and torn up during the search. Aside from the fact that it was reportedly too hot and humid for long sleeves during those days, he - IMO - attempted to create an explanation for whatever injuries he may have had on his arms.

JMOHO :)


i wonder if any other searchers reported the same complaints

[reddress58]

You are absolutely correct about him during the search, what he said and what he was wearing.
Where did we/you get this information? This is the first I heard of his comments regarding being bitten/scratched during the search? Sorry. If it was in a really early thread, I may have missed it.

[FullDisclosure]

It seems from some accounts she was just the opposite. The life of the party, big time spender, an attention seeker in real life without the use of web pages. Before I get criticized for putting down a person that is deceased, is that really any worse than the things that have been said here about a man that is possibly innocent?

I hang in the background usually and bite my tongue, but sometimes this board gets so one sided just feel like someone needs to same something.
Back to just reading I hope.

Deduction, good to have you here! I have no idea who killed NC, but I do feel that the board could use a little more balance. (I do appreciate ALL opinions, so please don't attack! I just believe that some, in their zeal to speak for the silenced, tend to be a little hasty to convict.)

Bottom line--it's great that people care enough to discuss, research, and share about these cases--And that we have a forum where we can :)

[raisincharlie]

I would like to comment on the discussion earlier today regarding BC and his long sleeves.

Don't know about the grocery store attire, but I recall the speculation about him wearing long sleeves during the search and MAKING A POINT about telling his fellow searchers how he was being bitten and torn up during the search. Aside from the fact that it was reportedly too hot and humid for long sleeves during those days, he - IMO - attempted to create an explanation for whatever injuries he may have had on his arms.

JMOHO :)

Honestly, this whole issue with the long sleeves doesn't say a lot to me. The guy could have been allergic to poison ivy. I quess the next question is did he have on trousers or shorts. If he is wearing shorts his explanation does not make much sense nor does an allergy. If the guy was out in trousers - he may have been rather truthful.

[The Saint]

Oh my gosh. YOur last sentence it what it was in a nutshell. Our court system isn't stupid. WE aren't stupid. Cary PD isn't stupid. I think they all learned from the Michelle Young case.
and that may have been one of the reasons why the parents of the VICTIM wanted immediate custody of bella and katie.
.
michelle young's daughter has been cut off from her maternal greatgrandmother, grandmother, aunt, cousins and her mother's friends, compounding their grief.


michelle's father just passes away from cancer. his funeral was today.
michelle's sister has now lost half her family within 2 years, not to mention her beloved niece that she helped care for.

[Deduction]

Yea, maybe if she was meeting a boyfriend .
Go back and listen to Clea...she totally discounted that possibility when asked by Fox News.

You either believe Clea or you don't...can't have it both ways


Ok then Just the Fax if you got to believe Clea then do you believe her when she said and I quote " I have no reason to believe Brad had anything to do with Nancy's disappearance"

as you said you either believe Clea or you don't can't have it both ways?

[FullDisclosure]

Ok then Just the Fax if you got to believe Clea then do you believe her when she said and I quote " I have no reason to believe Brad had anything to do with Nancy's disappearance"

as you said you either believe Clea or you don't can't have it both ways?

What Deduction said.

[reddress58]

:bedtime:

To Do Tomorrow morning (early):

1) Call Toll Bros. Check street light situation in Oaks @ MR S/D
2) Check property deed history for Oaks S/D
3) HT for laundry detergent (Tide/front load/extra bleachy):Banane13:

Nite nite.

[Jess]

Here is a link to the dept. NC dad was Exec. director of: http://www.child.alberta.ca/home/

Ex parte and international custody is a biggie. It is not very easy to take American children out of the country.
It is not easy to take children away from someone who has not been named a person of interest or charged with a crime.
And if I was a pit bull of a judge, I would've wanted more hard proof that BC was a threat to his children, in order for them to leave the US.

So I'm just sayin' allegedly.....

OneScout,

I am fully aware of his former job here in Alberta, which I believe he held for 5 years. ( He and his wife own a private business here in Edmonton)While his experience may have given him the knowledge etc. to quickly contact the lawyer, and even to get the ex parte motion going, it was through the NC lawyer, judge and laws that gave them temporary custody.

[SleuthyGal]

" I have no reason to believe Brad had anything to do with Nancy's disappearance"

I was sooo waiting for a "YET" when she said that. I watched it twice and she seemed careful and cautious about what she was saying. I'm sure her REAL thoughts were not shared with FOX news.

[SleuthyGal]

:bedtime:

To Do Tomorrow morning (early):

1) Call Toll Bros. Check street light situation in Oaks @ MR S/D
2) Check property deed history for Oaks S/D
3) HT for laundry detergent (Tide/front load/extra bleachy):Banane13:

Nite nite.

LOLOL @ "extra bleachy"

Look for the one that says, "Advanced DNA stain fighting power!" :behindbar

[FullDisclosure]

I was sooo waiting for a "YET" when she said that. I watched it twice and she seemed careful and cautious about what she was saying. I'm sure her REAL thoughts were not shared with FOX news.

Now Sleuthy, how can you be SURE what her REAL thoughts were? :confused: (Sorry, had to ask...)

[Onescout]

Another point on custody...paternal and maternal rights are big, case in point:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,397361,00.html

this woman should never have custody of those children, but she is the MOTHER and a convicted murderer, see how our system protects the parents?

How did BC manage to lose his?

If there wasn't some serious pull going on, there is NO way someone from out of the country could walk with children from their father when there is no hard evidence that he would or ever has harmed them, BC was not charged with a crime or named a person of interest...
please keep in mind, I'm glad it happened but I'm trying to make a point here.
Yes they had good attorneys but trust me, that was a small portion of what went on. It was so slick you could slide an elephant down Main street on it.

I applaud the Rentz family.

Like I said, try a see if Joe Regular could pull that off.

Unless....there was something the Judge and only the Judge was privvy to regarding the murder investigation, and even then, I don't know if that would be admissable, not sure on that at all.

Okay, I will check responses in the morning, great chattin' with you all, gotta head to bed!

[SleuthyGal]

Now Sleuthy, how can you be SURE what her REAL thoughts were? :confused: (Sorry, had to ask...)

I absolutely don't know what her real thoughts were, only that I doubt she would share all her (real) thoughts with any news outlet. One clue: what she expressed in her legal and signed affidavit gave me some insight into what she thought about her friend, their marriage, Brad, the kids, and other opinions, days after that interview. BTW, I would say the same thing about anyone who was interviewed. There are some things one just doesn't put out there in a media/TV interview, esp. if there is something you can't be sure of or cannot prove or that you feel might jeopardize a situation.

[RoughlyCollie]

If he wore long pants and a long-sleeved shirt, he may have been trying to avoid ticks.

http://www.epi.state.nc.us/epi/tick/TickBitePrevention.pdf

Honestly, this whole issue with the long sleeves doesn't say a lot to me. The guy could have been allergic to poison ivy. I quess the next question is did he have on trousers or shorts. If he is wearing shorts his explanation does not make much sense nor does an allergy. If the guy was out in trousers - he may have been rather truthful.

[The Saint]

i can't find the slideshow right now, but

the camoflage guy who was pictured during the search had a short sleeved t-shirt
and long pants (i think). i seem to remember that most of the searchers were wearing shorts and short sleeves.
i think ms.
duncan was wearing a black dress and sitting w/ a computer on her lap.

[Deduction]

I was reading BC's friends & family affidavits. Michael Morwick's states that he and Clea took the girls to their house while the police were at the Coopers. He says the police were there until 10:30/11pm.

So, you wonder if Bella told them about seeing her mom in the AM.

Thanks carolinalady for this post.

I feel this is a very important bit of info. as it has been posted on the official find Nancy Cooper website that Bella did see her Mom leave that morning.
If that is true, then all the discussion about early morning bleach or tide, even milk or juice runs becomes non important.

However, if this were true I have to think the CPD would not be looking so hard at Brad unless they are like some others and have tunnel vision. Unless they beleive that so many murders are committed by husbands and they are determined to make the pieces fit.

It would be very interesting to know if Bella saw her Mom that morning and one of the most important early clues IMO.

[The Saint]

maybe bella saw her mom leave the house and brad followed nancy outside and killed her

[LivinginNC]

I can only speak for Monday as that was the day I helped with the search. The majority of people had shorts, tee shirts, tennis shoes and socks on. There were a few with pants on, some raincoats came out once the rain started. From what I understood, this was the first day that searchers were asked to go 20 feet off of the main path, into the brush. The first two days were focused on the paths themselves as there are many to cover. Poison ivy was more of an issue, no bugs at all, but then again it was a rainy day. I was too anxious to get out searching to even think clearly about appropriate clothing for the brush. poison ivy or bugs, not until I got out into the brush did I notice how unprepared most of us were, yet it didn't stop anyone.

[mahmoo]

Honestly, this whole issue with the long sleeves doesn't say a lot to me. The guy could have been allergic to poison ivy. I quess the next question is did he have on trousers or shorts. If he is wearing shorts his explanation does not make much sense nor does an allergy. If the guy was out in trousers - he may have been rather truthful.

I've been trying to find the picture......actually I found it then lost it again and am not going look again tonight.....but not only does he have on a long sleeved shirt.....he has a white tee shirt under that. It's the one of him coming out of the house carrying a car seat.

[Fairy1]

Honestly, this whole issue with the long sleeves doesn't say a lot to me. The guy could have been allergic to poison ivy. I quess the next question is did he have on trousers or shorts. If he is wearing shorts his explanation does not make much sense nor does an allergy. If the guy was out in trousers - he may have been rather truthful.

On the face of it, long sleeves and long pants in such hot and humid weather would not seem terribly important. The most telling part of it - to me anyway - is the fact that he made a point of saying how he was being torn up. I'm sorry I cannot find the specific reference - it is somewhere very early on in the threads. IIRC - the post was made by someone who was participating in the search.

[Star12]

"I feel this is a very important bit of info. as it has been posted on the official find Nancy Cooper website that Bella did see her Mom leave that morning."

But, who said that Bella saw her Mom leave? Who else was with Bella to verify this?

[mahmoo]

On the face of it, long sleeves and long pants in such hot and humid weather would not seem terribly important. The most telling part of it - to me anyway - is the fact that he made a point of saying how he was being torn up. I'm sorry I cannot find the specific reference - it is somewhere very early on in the threads. IIRC - the post was made by someone who was participating in the search.

You're right....I remember it too. I was trying to remember back if I had read it on a news site......but really was pretty sure I had read it here very early on.

[The Saint]

I can only speak for Monday as that was the day I helped with the search. The majority of people had shorts, tee shirts, tennis shoes and socks on. There were a few with pants on, some raincoats came out once the rain started. From what I understood, this was the first day that searchers were asked to go 20 feet off of the main path, into the brush. The first two days were focused on the paths themselves as there are many to cover. Poison ivy was more of an issue, no bugs at all, but then again it was a rainy day. I was too anxious to get out searching to even think clearly about appropriate clothing for the brush. poison ivy or bugs, not until I got out into the brush did I notice how unprepared most of us were, yet it didn't stop anyone.

did people feel like she could still be found alive or were they certain that she had met foul play? if so,
was there any discussion among the searchers as to whom they believed
harmed her?

[FullDisclosure]

Thanks carolinalady for this post.

I feel this is a very important bit of info. as it has been posted on the official find Nancy Cooper website that Bella did see her Mom leave that morning.
If that is true, then all the discussion about early morning bleach or tide, even milk or juice runs becomes non important.

However, if this were true I have to think the CPD would not be looking so hard at Brad unless they are like some others and have tunnel vision. Unless they beleive that so many murders are committed by husbands and they are determined to make the pieces fit.

It would be very interesting to know if Bella saw her Mom that morning and one of the most important early clues IMO.

I agree that this is a very important point that really hasn't been given much attention. Here is the link to the site, and if you click on Art2mis you'll see that she is Ms. Duncan.

http://nancycooper.blogspot.com/2008/07/map-of-searched-areas.html

[The Saint]

this is a very small photo of brad leaving the house. i know there is a bigger copy somewhere.
http://www.newsobserver.com/859/v-pop_gallery/gallery/1143036-a1143032-t4.html

[The Saint]

I agree that this is a very important point that really hasn't been given much attention. Here is the link to the site, and if you click on Art2mis you'll see that she is Ms. Duncan.

http://nancycooper.blogspot.com/2008/07/map-of-searched-areas.html

on the above link
"Anonymous said... No one has answered the first question on this blog....who was the last to see her and where/when was it? I am told her youngest child saw her at 12 midnight when she got home Friday...is this true?
July 14, 2008 8:56 AM" (http://nancycooper.blogspot.com/2008/07/map-of-searched-areas.html?showComment=1216050960000#c111829877886 1685663)
that would be katie not bella and she saw nancy when she came back from the party, not leaving the house.

[mahmoo]

"I feel this is a very important bit of info. as it has been posted on the official find Nancy Cooper website that Bella did see her Mom leave that morning."

But, who said that Bella saw her Mom leave? Who else was with Bella to verify this?

If Bella's mom actually left to go "for a run" Sat morn it seems "someone" would have seen her. From what we've learned, Nancy was a "social butterfly" and somewhat "known" around Cary. IF she took off from home on a jog, surely at least ONE person would have seen her at some point along her path.....she had to be a familiar face.....someone easily recognized.

[FullDisclosure]

on the above link
"Anonymous said... No one has answered the first question on this blog....who was the last to see her and where/when was it? I am told her youngest child saw her at 12 midnight when she got home Friday...is this true?
July 14, 2008 8:56 AM" (http://nancycooper.blogspot.com/2008/07/map-of-searched-areas.html?showComment=1216050960000#c111829877886 1685663)
that would be katie not bella and she saw nancy when she came back from the party, not leaving the house.

Here's what I was trying to link to....this is the part I was referencing. i've copied and pasted directly from the blog:

-snip-
art2mis said...
Her husband and elder child saw her leaving for her run Saturday morning.

JULY 14, 2008 11:26 AM
-snip-


I'm trying to figure out where your info came from. Not trying to make trouble, just genuinely confused here....help me out :confused:

[LivinginNC]

did people feel like she could still be found alive or were they certain that she had met foul play? if so,
was there any discussion among the searchers as to whom they believed
harmed her?


There was hope that she was still alive and no one was willing to give up searching, but by this point of the search there was much speculation about the reality of this. There absolutely was a feeling that she had met with foul play and I got the strong sense that Brad was the person believed could be responsible. This is just what I sensed in "reading between the lines".

[mahmoo]

on the above link
"Anonymous said... No one has answered the first question on this blog....who was the last to see her and where/when was it? I am told her youngest child saw her at 12 midnight when she got home Friday...is this true?
July 14, 2008 8:56 AM" (http://nancycooper.blogspot.com/2008/07/map-of-searched-areas.html?showComment=1216050960000#c111829877886 1685663)
that would be katie not bella and she saw nancy when she came back from the party, not leaving the house.

Interesting.......who would be privvy to that info :confused: It appears there are 2 separate people that are aware of that information or is it only 1 person Saint?

[SleuthyGal]

Here's what I was trying to link to....this is the part I was referencing. i've copied and pasted directly from the blog:

-snip-
art2mis said...
Her husband and elder child saw her leaving for her run Saturday morning.



If this info came directly from Brad then I don't believe his version of events. If someone else heard Bella say she saw her mommy that morning then yes okay.

[FullDisclosure]

If this info came directly from Brad then I don't believe his version of events. If someone else heard Bella say she saw her mommy that morning then yes okay.

We don't know the answer to that from this info. I understand your point, but we can't just assume that it came from Brad. Oh how I wish we knew!

[mahmoo]

If this info came directly from Brad then I don't believe his version of events. If someone else heard Bella say she saw her mommy that morning then yes okay.

Something to think about is this......Brad's affidavit for the ex parte hearing did not mention that Katie had woken up after Nancy returned from the BBQ nor does it mention that Bella was up when Nancy left to go run. As detailed as he was about many other things you would think he would have mentioned that the children were awake.......all I remember is he said he was "preparing" for the children to get up.

[SleuthyGal]

Something to think about is this......Brad's affidavit for the ex parte hearing did not mention that Katie had woken up after Nancy returned from the BBQ nor does it mention that Bella was up when Nancy left to go run. As detailed as he was about many other things you would think he would have mentioned that the children were awake.......all I remember is he said he was "preparing" for the children to get up.

OH Mahmoo! That is a very interesting find! I have not read more than a few lines of BC's affadavit because I wanted to be able to digest my lunch without getting heartburn. YES, if the kids saw her I can't imagine why he wouldn't have mentioned it explicitly in the affidavit since he apparently remembered to mention LOTS of other things that were not as important. :confused:

[mahmoo]

LOLOL @ "extra bleachy"

Look for the one that says, "Advanced DNA stain fighting power!" :behindbar

:floorlaugh:roflmao:floorlaugh:

[ncnative]

No matter how well-known someone is in Cary, Cary and even Lochmere are huge, with how many hundreds of thousands of people? Here in Lochmere where many runners/walkers use Lochmere Drive (as did Nancy), there are always plenty of people out doing the same thing. Runners don't really look distinct from one another when you are driving around trying to watch the road. You get used to seeing them everywhere. I would only notice a runner if they were dressed out of the ordinary or fell down, etc.

Bill Leslie (WRAL TV) has run down Lochmere Dr. for years and years. It's hard to notice who he is. Amanda Lamb of WRAL TV walks her dog along Lochmere Dr. No one notices who she is either. We all sort of blend in. I notice these people because I know them, live near one of them, and even then they just blend in.

I don't think Nancy Cooper was any different except to those who knew her. They would recognize her.

[The Saint]

Here's what I was trying to link to....this is the part I was referencing. i've copied and pasted directly from the blog:

-snip-
art2mis said...
Her husband and elder child saw her leaving for her run Saturday morning.

JULY 14, 2008 11:26 AM
-snip-


I'm trying to figure out where your info came from. Not trying to make trouble, just genuinely confused here....help me out :confused:

FD,

the post i was quoting was right above the one you were quoting on the blog. the one i quoted was posted at 8:56 am. I copied and pasted it exactly from the nancycooper.blogspot

http://nancycooper.blogspot.com/2008/07/map-of-searched-areas.html

"Anonymous said... No one has answered the first question on this blog....who was the last to see her and where/when was it? I am told her youngest child saw her at 12 midnight when she got home Friday...is this true?
July 14, 2008 8:56 AM" (http://nancycooper.blogspot.com/2008/07/map-of-searched-areas.html?showComment=1216050960000#c111829877886 1685663)
_________________________________________
i said (about the anonymous post)

that would be katie not bella and she saw nancy when she came back from the party, not leaving the house.

maybe neither of these were actually correct. maybe both were right.

it could be that brad told people these things or these things were merely rumors.

for all we know, brad could have been one of the posters on the blog.

[The Saint]

http://www.wral.com/news/local/image_gallery/3208444/

if you click on slide 16 + 17
you will see nancy as she looks when she runs. she is very striking - tall, thin with a bouncing pony tail.
most people would remember seeing a runner who looked like that, especially is she were wearing light blue shoes.

[mahmoo]

No matter how well-known someone is in Cary, Cary and even Lochmere are huge, with how many hundreds of thousands of people?

I didn't realize Cary was that large......I was under the impression it was a much smaller city/town whatever.

[The Saint]

There was hope that she was still alive and no one was willing to give up searching, but by this point of the search there was much speculation about the reality of this. There absolutely was a feeling that she had met with foul play and I got the strong sense that Brad was the person believed could be responsible. This is just what I sensed in "reading between the lines".

it was very kind of you to volunteer to search. i feel so bad for the families when these horrible things happen.

[The Saint]

I didn't realize Cary was that large......I was under the impression it was a much smaller city/town whatever.

someone who lives in cary said that it is about 80,000 people and borders raleigh.

[The Saint]

Interesting.......who would be privvy to that info :confused: It appears there are 2 separate people that are aware of that information or is it only 1 person Saint?


hey, i just clicked on the link provided by FullDisclosure (nancycooper.blogspot) and found that post. see the above post #589

[Deduction]

the ex parte ruling happened quickly because children were in danger. this is not unusual and i don't think it had anything to do with who nancy's parents are.

i'm confused as to way you think her dad had extra pull in getting the passports or that they were a minor concern.

the court ordered brad to had over the passports would be my guess, in the judge's intitial temporary custody hearing.

the children's mother had been murdered, most probably by the the children's father who is thought to be unstable.

Ex parte can happen because children are in danger---yes that is true.
Sad to say they can and do happen much easier and faster if you have money, power, political connections. I'm not saying that was the case here, but I'm not saying it wasn't the case either. At this point I am suspious.

[Deduction]

Here is a link to the dept. NC dad was Exec. director of: http://www.child.alberta.ca/home/

Ex parte and international custody is a biggie. It is not very easy to take American children out of the country.
It is not easy to take children away from someone who has not been named a person of interest or charged with a crime.
And if I was a pit bull of a judge, I would've wanted more hard proof that BC was a threat to his children, in order for them to leave the US.

So I'm just sayin' allegedly.....


I agree with you on this Onescout.
Many intelligent and concerned citizens were shocked that the children were taken out of the country in the manner they were.
If, and I do say if Brad Cooper is innocent, I believe there should be some attorney's disbarred over this. just my opinion

[mahmoo]

I would suggest reading Ginger Calloway's affidavit that was presented at the "emergency" ex parte hearing. She outlines very clearly what her concerns for the children were.

[Deduction]

I was sooo waiting for a "YET" when she said that. I watched it twice and she seemed careful and cautious about what she was saying. I'm sure her REAL thoughts were not shared with FOX news.

I agree Sleuthy about her real thoughts.
I don't even think it was a fair question for them to ask.
I would not have wanted to have been in her position at that moment.

[Deduction]

Another point on custody...paternal and maternal rights are big, case in point:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,397361,00.html

this woman should never have custody of those children, but she is the MOTHER and a convicted murderer, see how our system protects the parents?

How did BC manage to lose his?

If there wasn't some serious pull going on, there is NO way someone from out of the country could walk with children from their father when there is no hard evidence that he would or ever has harmed them, BC was not charged with a crime or named a person of interest...
please keep in mind, I'm glad it happened but I'm trying to make a point here.
Yes they had good attorneys but trust me, that was a small portion of what went on. It was so slick you could slide an elephant down Main street on it.

I applaud the Rentz family.

Like I said, try a see if Joe Regular could pull that off.

Unless....there was something the Judge and only the Judge was privvy to regarding the murder investigation, and even then, I don't know if that would be admissable, not sure on that at all.

Okay, I will check responses in the morning, great chattin' with you all, gotta head to bed!


IMO a Joe Regular could not have pulled it off.
You are correct about parental rights being so strong.
There is something yet to be told about what happened with that IMO.

[FlowerChild]

The "running" photo of Nancy seems to be older - when her hair was blonde - her hair appears shorter and darker in recent pictures and with a hat wearing normal summer jogging clothes I just don't see how she would "stand-out" that much. She is tall, but 5'9" is not exceptionally tall these days and unless she was running in a group I don't think her height would be apparent to the casual observer. I live in a small neighborhood directly adjacent (with a gate) to a park with jogging trails so I have been looking at the joggers around my house in Dallas to see if any stand out to me - and I must say, those that do are wearing very skimpy, BRIGHT and TIGHT revealing outfits and seem to be interested in the attention. I hardly noticed anyone's shoes (I looked), there are so many types and colors and patterns that none stood out to me (In 3 days I saw black, orange,red, blue, pink, neon bright and all versions of white with patterns and even lights). Nancy does not strike me as the type to be seeking attention by her attire to me. If Nancy ran by my house today, I wouldn't take a 2nd look at her or remember her any more than the other 20 soccer moms who ran by my house today. Nancy lived in a McMansion neighborhood probably filled with Trophy Wives, Working Moms and SAHM's who were nice looking and thin and even tall. She wouldn't stand out in my similar neighborhood in Dallas and I doubt she stood out there in Cary. To stand out here in the heart of Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders wanna-be land, Nancy would have to be dressed to get attention and be VERY VERY beautiful. Last time I was in Raleigh (6 mos ago - BIL lives in Wilmington) there were a lot of tall, thin, and cleavage enhanced gorgeous Southern Belles out running in the Raleigh area. Since they WANT to be seen, they are - Nancy was running for herself, a serious runner, NOT out there to get attention.

Serious runners who run in the early morning are usually focused on their run - generally they aren't socializing because many of them have to get home and get showered and changed and go to work - and I doubt their routine changes much on the weekend except they might change their route to avoid the weekend joggers who aren't as serious and might create congestion and slow the faster runners and mess with their pacing.

So I don't think it means that Nancy didn't go jogging that morning because nobody has come forward to testify they saw her doing so. I don't think a case against BC can be made solely on the fact that nobody remembers with any certainty that they saw Nancy running at 7AM, so therefore BC must have killed her at home and dumped her body before dawn. I'd have to see MORE evidence that Nancy never left that house alive again after coming home at 2AM - so until we have something more I am going to also work on some alternative scenarios of how it could have happened during or after her run. The problem with one set theory is that if it is proven wrong, you have to start all over from the beginning - right now I LOVE we have many scenarios - much more likely we have already hit on the REAL one.

My Opinion

[Sewing_Buddy]

Now that is a deal! I just couldn't believe people were walking at that time...I just knew I would have the police waiting when I got out of the subdivision. But it is County so it would take them awhile I guess to get to me. I hope so!

Is that private property? Why did you think the police might be waiting at the subdivision entrance?
Remember, this was an "isolated incident" so the police aren't expecting a repeat occurance in that area.
It might be hard to sell those lots if everyone gets creeped out by driving through the area....glad I'm not the realtor for that subdivision!

[Deduction]

OH Mahmoo! That is a very interesting find! I have not read more than a few lines of BC's affadavit because I wanted to be able to digest my lunch without getting heartburn. YES, if the kids saw her I can't imagine why he wouldn't have mentioned it explicitly in the affidavit since he apparently remembered to mention LOTS of other things that were not as important. :confused:

you havn't read but a few lines of his affadavit's????

how could you possibly have formed an opinion?:confused:

[Sewing_Buddy]

I would like to comment on the discussion earlier today regarding BC and his long sleeves.

Don't know about the grocery store attire, but I recall the speculation about him wearing long sleeves during the search and MAKING A POINT about telling his fellow searchers how he was being bitten and torn up during the search. Aside from the fact that it was reportedly too hot and humid for long sleeves during those days, he - IMO - attempted to create an explanation for whatever injuries he may have had on his arms.

JMOHO :)

Do you think that LE were able to take photos of Brad's arms (if there were scratches) or is it always going to remain a mystery....since the scratches would have healed by now.
Can a search warrant that involves taking DNA also include looking for and taking photos of wounds on the body?

[dyrewolfe]

someone who lives in cary said that it is about 80,000 people and borders raleigh.

127k as of Jan/2008.

http://www.townofcary.org/aboutcary/

[chauncey7381]

Deduction---if you know of any blogs, or threads that are not biased against Mr. Cooper, please write me or YM me at Chauncey7381. I'm from the old crowd and believe in "innocent until proven guilty", in this day and age, Mr. Cooper has already been tried based on opinion and hearsay.

I live in the Raleigh/Cary area, I do run occasionally in the Regency Park area, alone, in the early morning hours. There have been a lot attacks on women in this area in the last year. I am concerned about the safety there. Crime is on the rise here. Especially theft and gang activity.

Thanks in advance.

[Just the Fax]

Ok then Just the Fax if you got to believe Clea then do you believe her when she said and I quote " I have no reason to believe Brad had anything to do with Nancy's disappearance"

as you said you either believe Clea or you don't can't have it both ways?

You need to understand her comment on the national media was before her body was identified and the death ruled a homicide.
Think about it, what person would go on national TV very early on in the ordeal and proclaim Brad Cooper likely had something to do with her disappearance ?
Betcha she told the cops that though :wink:

[SleuthyGal]

you havn't read but a few lines of his affadavit's????

how could you possibly have formed an opinion?:confused:

Easy, actually. My opinions are not based on the custody affidavits of either BC or the friends, but on the facts pertaining to the criminal investigation so far. As more facts emerge my opinions may change, or they might not. I've said several times now that I'm interested in the 24 hrs prior to NC's disappearance and murder, and the 24 hrs after. The rest is about the disintegration of the marriage and the growing tension between a couple. And while that's interesting and salacious, it doesn't have my (sleuthy) focus nearly to the extent of the immediate time around the crime.

[Just the Fax]

someone who lives in cary said that it is about 80,000 people and borders raleigh.

Raleigh and Cary actually run together....For all intents and purposes , pretty much one in the same. Cary is basically an upscale suburban maze of subdivisions whose families often work in Raleigh or Research Triangle Park (west, near RDU airport)

[Just the Fax]

Deduction---if you know of any blogs, or threads that are not biased against Mr. Cooper, please write me or YM me at Chauncey7381. I'm from the old crowd and believe in "innocent until proven guilty", in this day and age, Mr. Cooper has already been tried based on opinion and hearsay.

I live in the Raleigh/Cary area, I do run occasionally in the Regency Park area, alone, in the early morning hours. There have been a lot attacks on women in this area in the last year. I am concerned about the safety there. Crime is on the rise here. Especially theft and gang activity.

Thanks in advance.

"A lot of attacks on women in the last year" :sheesh:

The fact is, Cary happens to be ranked the #5 safest city overall
http://www.morganquitno.com/cit04pop.htm

I agree with an increase in property crimes (common everywhere).

[Just the Fax]

Do you think that LE were able to take photos of Brad's arms (if there were scratches) or is it always going to remain a mystery....since the scratches would have healed by now.
Can a search warrant that involves taking DNA also include looking for and taking photos of wounds on the body?

Yes, a NTO can include taking DNA as well as photos of his body.

Here is a copy of the NTO served on Jason Young to obtain his DNA as well as examine his body for evidence of scratches and wounds. The cops had PC to do this because there was evidence of a violent struggle and the cops had reason to believe the perpetrator could have been injured.
Unless there was evidence of a fight /struggle with blood in the home , I doubt the cops would have PC to request photos of his body. However, it was said he cooperated fully with CPD early on. You would think the cops would politely ask him to show them his arms...

Notice the NTO says "I have reasonable grounds to believe this person committed this offense"
In other words, serving a NTO says this person is a suspect.
Yea I know, that terms 'POI' and 'suspect' are now becoming politically incorrect to use in murder investigations.
The cops can have em, they just don't usually 'name' em much anymore (at least in Wake County)

http://tinyurl.com/59kded

[Deduction]

Deduction---if you know of any blogs, or threads that are not biased against Mr. Cooper, please write me or YM me at Chauncey7381. I'm from the old crowd and believe in "innocent until proven guilty", in this day and age, Mr. Cooper has already been tried based on opinion and hearsay.

I live in the Raleigh/Cary area, I do run occasionally in the Regency Park area, alone, in the early morning hours. There have been a lot attacks on women in this area in the last year. I am concerned about the safety there. Crime is on the rise here. Especially theft and gang activity.

Thanks in advance.

Chauncey welcome to the board and I hope you will continue to post here.
I have to sometimes get up the courage to post because opinions were formed very early. I also am "old school" .

Speaking of the safety there, do you know what LE uses to base a decision on that a case or this case was an isolated case. They said that almost immediately, yet that say they have no person of interest or suspect. That seems to me like double speak, or am I just being dense here?

[raisincharlie]

Chauncey welcome to the board and I hope you will continue to post here.
I have to sometimes get up the courage to post because opinions were formed very early. I also am "old school" .

Speaking of the safety there, do you know what LE uses to base a decision on that a case or this case was an isolated case. They said that almost immediately, yet that say they have no person of interest or suspect. That seems to me like double speak, or am I just being dense here?

It is double speak. You often hear isolated or non random when LE has information that leads them in a specific direction and/or already has a list of potential persons of interest. LE very often does not name a person of interest or suspect while they are investigating, sometimes not even right before an arrest.

[Just the Fax]

Chauncey welcome to the board and I hope you will continue to post here.
I have to sometimes get up the courage to post because opinions were formed very early. I also am "old school" .

Speaking of the safety there, do you know what LE uses to base a decision on that a case or this case was an isolated case. They said that almost immediately, yet that say they have no person of interest or suspect. That seems to me like double speak, or am I just being dense here?

Not being dense. The cops believe the murder was not an isolated incident. How do they know this ? Because they believe the victim knew her killer. That is another reason why they classed this homicide as 'non-random'.

The cops have a deilemma. They don't want to name a POI or a suspect for many reasons, including the fact the terms are inflammatory and can impead his chance at a fair trial. On the other hand, they don't want the public alarmed that there is a mad killer on the lose that snatches female runners off the road and kills them.

[christine2448]

Continue here please. (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2456132#post2456132)