Maricopa Jane Doe Thread #7

[Cubby]

That last thread was getting too long.
Please continue here.

[Cubby]

FMW, can you ask your LE contact if any of the minors that KL trafficked from "back east" were ever interviewed - shown pics of MJD - in an attempt to id her? pretty pleaaaaaaase. Thanks! :blowkiss:

[fmw63]

FMW, can you ask your LE contact if any of the minors that KL trafficked from "back east" were ever interviewed - shown pics of MJD - in an attempt to id her? pretty pleaaaaaaase. Thanks! :blowkiss:


I'l try later today.

[fmw63]

Any Phoenix natives here ever remember this on tv back then? What pics would they have had on tv then? I'm guessing the only thing they had to go on would have been the sketches?

[Vask]

I don't remember the story at all.. I was 18 in Jan of 1999 and taking care of my kids more than watching TV. News depresses me anyways so I tend not to watch it to begin with.

[Cymro]

This is just a weird aside that popped up in another forum on WS:

http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/11-98/11-11-98/a04sr027.htm

Two months before MJD's crash, another teenaged girl jumps/is pushed, barefoot, feet first from the window of a moving car on the freeway that also fails to stop, lives briefly when found but dies of her injuries.

Probably just a weird coincidence but so similar you'd possibly call it an MO if they weren't on different sides of the country.

[VASHLEY88]

This is just a weird aside that popped up in another forum on WS:

http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/11-98/11-11-98/a04sr027.htm

Two months before MJD's crash, another teenaged girl jumps/is pushed, barefoot, feet first from the window of a moving car on the freeway that also fails to stop, lives briefly when found but dies of her injuries.

Probably just a weird coincidence but so similar you'd possibly call it an MO if they weren't on different sides of the country.


Thanks for posting. That's interesting, Cymro.. it's like the exact same circumstances, only on opposite sides of the country. It makes you wonder what happened in Alonzo's car that made MJD take that leap of fate. :furious: I found it interesting that the driver was said to of had a dark blue or tan car. So did Alonzo. I know it isn't plausible that he was the driver, the cases are just too similar.

[Vask]

What's also eerie about Ashley Turniak's case is that it happened in November 1998. Didn't LDJ say they were only in Phoenix for 2 months?

November 9th 1998 at 8am, 16 year old Ashley Turniak was found dead on the breakdown lane of I-91 south in Longmeadow, Massachusetts just 1½ mile from the Connecticut border. The well liked teenager from Agawam had been seen in her high school parking lot before her first class started at 7:25 that morning. Less than an hour later, witnesses reported that she went feet-first from the passenger window of a car heading south towards Connecticut. Her backpack was found on Woodlawn Avenue in Enfield, Connecticut not far from a highway exit. At the time of her death witnesses reported that she was in a tan or light brown mid-size vehicle, possibly a late 80s model Ford Tempo or a vehicle similar to that. After Turniaks fall, the car was seen leaving I-91 at Exit 49 in Connecticut. More than five years later many questions persist, was she pushed or did she fall? Who was the driver? A still grieving family and Massachusetts State Police want to know. If you have any information about this case please call (413) 747-4809.

http://www.angelfire.com/ct3/unsolvedct/homicides.html

[ArizonaGiGi]

Thanks for posting. That's interesting, Cymro.. it's like the exact same circumstances, only on opposite sides of the country. It makes you wonder what happened in Alonzo's car that made MJD take that leap of fate. :furious: I found it interesting that the driver was said to of had a dark blue or tan car. So did Alonzo. I know it isn't plausible that he was the driver, the cases are just too similar.

OMG :eek: how weird!!! I don't know why it couldn't be Alonzo. They didn't catch the driver.
Also, I was wondering why MJD's sandals were in the back seat? Why weren't they ON her feet?

[VASHLEY88]

OMG :eek: how weird!!! I don't know why it couldn't be Alonzo. They didn't catch the driver.
Also, I was wondering why MJD's sandals were in the back seat? Why weren't they ON her feet?

Ugh I know! Ashley was barefoot, too. If I didn't know all of the information that I do on the cases and just randomly saw these two incidents.. I'd swear it was some bizarre serial killer method or something. That's how eerie it is..

[cali_mommy]

:clap:I'AM TRULY AMAZED ,AT ALL THE HARD WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE, TO IDENTIFY THIS BEAUTIFUL GIRL. THE PROGRESS THAT HAS BEEN MADE IS AMAZING, SHE WILL BE IDENTIFIED VERY SOON, THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!!! THE POLICE REALLY DROPPED THE BALL ON THIS CASE, AND IT MAKES ME VERRRRYYYYY:furious:. IMO SOMEONE GOT AWAY WITH MURDER!!! SHE WOULDN'T HAVE JUMPED OUT OF THAT CAR WITHOUT HER SHOES. NO WAY!!!!

[Vask]

If her life was in eminent danger, who knows what she would've left behind. You can always buy new things..

[cali_mommy]

That's true, however it would have took seconds to slip her shoes on, and yes u can buy new things, but it takes $$$ to do that. There were no weapons found and no indication that she was in danger, she was a very beautiful girl, and she made her living selling that image, so why would she jump and risk losing her looks?? Imo she was pushed.

[Vask]

There were no weapons found

Other than their own fists..

[fmw63]

OMG :eek: how weird!!! I don't know why it couldn't be Alonzo. They didn't catch the driver.
Also, I was wondering why MJD's sandals were in the back seat? Why weren't they ON her feet?

:crazy: How many times have YOU driven past a car where the girl had her bare feet up on the dashboard? I've seen plenty... And the passenger seat was back quite far.

[VASHLEY88]

:crazy: How many times have YOU driven past a car where the girl had her bare feet up on the dashboard? I've seen plenty... And the passenger seat was back quite far.

Well damn, she must've been pretty comfortable with these folks to not even KNOW them personally.. hmm. I guess if she was used to it, sure. But it's still kind of odd to me that she just threw her shoes in the back seat if she didn't know them, IMO. But I guess since she was a prostitute, she may have been pretty comfortable in the presence of strangers. I mean you've got to be, I'm sure. It just seemed like she wasn't "tainted" just yet. Like she still had a chance to get out of it. But in regards to her kicking her shoes off, Alonzo could have said some smooth lines like "Take your shoes off and kick your feet up on the dashboard, I know they must be killing you from walking in them all day" or something snakey. Does anyone know exactly how much time between picking her up and getting on the highway there was? Forgive me, I hate those "military times" on the LE report, and I never quite calculated it..

[Fairy1]

Well damn, she must've been pretty comfortable with these folks to not even KNOW them personally.. hmm. I guess if she was used to it, sure. But it's still kind of odd to me that she just threw her shoes in the back seat if she didn't know them, IMO. But I guess since she was a prostitute, she may have been pretty comfortable in the presence of strangers. I mean you've got to be, I'm sure. It just seemed like she wasn't "tainted" just yet. Like she still had a chance to get out of it. But in regards to her kicking her shoes off, Alonzo could have said some smooth lines like "Take your shoes off and kick your feet up on the dashboard, I know they must be killing you from walking in them all day" or something snakey. Does anyone know exactly how much time between picking her up and getting on the highway there was? Forgive me, I hate those "military times" on the LE report, and I never quite calculated it..

Hi Vashley! IIRC - the "accident" happened fairly early in the afternoon - I want to say 1 or 1:30 (sorry - too tired to look @ the report). I don't find it too odd that she took her shoes off in the car. But she had to have been in an awful hurry to get out of there to leave them behind in the middle of the desert!

[Fairy1]

:crazy: How many times have YOU driven past a car where the girl had her bare feet up on the dashboard? I've seen plenty... And the passenger seat was back quite far.

Lots of times - but I've never seen their feet - and the rest of them - go flying out of the window!!!

[VASHLEY88]

Hi Vashley! IIRC - the "accident" happened fairly early in the afternoon - I want to say 1 or 1:30 (sorry - too tired to look @ the report). I don't find it too odd that she took her shoes off in the car. But she had to have been in an awful hurry to get out of there to leave them behind in the middle of the desert!

Hey Fairy!

She must've been in a hurry! I was wondering actually if they had picked MJD up in the morning, or how long they had been driving around with her on the car before the actual incident happened. :confused:

[Fairy1]

Hey Fairy!

She must've been in a hurry! I was wondering actually if they had picked MJD up in the morning, or how long they had been driving around with her on the car before the actual incident happened. :confused:

I was going to mention that - if they hung out on Van Buren to buy some weed then went to some house somewhere, they had likely picked her up in the late morning. HOWEVER, all of that information came from Alonzo and Lindsey, and so I don't have much faith in any of it. Honestly, I don't think we have a true timeline at all. It's so frustrating really. I sure hope LDJ can lead LE to that house they supposedly stopped at. Or that LE can find Robin or pay a little visit to KL. SOMETHING other than Alonzo and Lindsey. :furious::furious::furious:

[VASHLEY88]

I was going to mention that - if they hung out on Van Buren to buy some weed then went to some house somewhere, they had likely picked her up in the late morning. HOWEVER, all of that information came from Alonzo and Lindsey, and so I don't have much faith in any of it. Honestly, I don't think we have a true timeline at all. It's so frustrating really. I sure hope LDJ can lead LE to that house they supposedly stopped at. Or that LE can find Robin or pay a little visit to KL. SOMETHING other than Alonzo and Lindsey. :furious::furious::furious:

You're telling me! Ugh, I wish that LE could SOMEHOW make LDJ consent to hypnosis so she could "relive" the event. That'd be pretty interesting. I bet a lot of important details would spill!!

[Teresa Larson]

You're telling me! Ugh, I wish that LE could SOMEHOW make LDJ consent to hypnosis so she could "relive" the event. That'd be pretty interesting. I bet a lot of important details would spill!!

They wouldn't even need to hypnotize Lindsey I am sure she remembers every little detail about what happened to MJD I am also sure she has selective memory.

[ArizonaGiGi]

:crazy: How many times have YOU driven past a car where the girl had her bare feet up on the dashboard? I've seen plenty... And the passenger seat was back quite far.

she musta been pretty comfortable to take her shoes off. Don't think she JUST met Alonzo and Lindsey if she was that comfy.
eh I see Vashley posted this same thing. sorreee

[VASHLEY88]

They wouldn't even need to hypnotize Lindsey I am sure she remembers every little detail about what happened to MJD I am also sure she has selective memory.

Well if she was under hypnosis she would be in a state in which she would be totally relaxed and it'd be easier for her to recall the events that happened that day without feeling too much anxiety, and it'd probably be the TRUTH.

But anyway.. I highly doubt she'd consent anyhow so it doesn't matter. :scream:

[believe09]

Given the amount of walking MJD might have been doing typically in her shoes, I guess it is not such a surprise to me that she might have taken them off at any opportunity, also given her estimated age. What actually surprised me was to see that the front seats of the caddy were captain's chairs (I do not know the correct word) so how the heck could the three of them FIT in the front?

[phenolred]

Did anyone notice the Hospital wristband in the one pic by the Arizona ID wonder WHO had been in the hospital??

here is a cropped pic and also one of the Dollar Bill business card

[believe09]

Did anyone notice the Hospital wristband in the one pic by the Arizona ID wonder WHO had been in the hospital??

here is a cropped pic and also one of the Dollar Bill business card

Thanks, phenol! Can anyone make sense of the wrist band?

[fmw63]

Thanks, phenol! Can anyone make sense of the wrist band?

I couldn't.:confused: Sure it's not a luggage tag?

[believe09]

I couldn't.:confused: Sure it's not a luggage tag?

Doubtful to me-I think that it looks like a wristband from an ER as well....

[fmw63]

Only a reminder - Don't be confused about missing pieces. The police report and photos received were from my request for everything "publicly available". And these were from the initial 1999 investigation from Pinal County. They probably have quite a few bits & pieces that we haven't got and won't get. There probably were reports done by AZ Dept. of Public Safety and the other agencies involved as well. :)

[fmw63]

What actually surprised me was to see that the front seats of the caddy were captain's chairs (I do not know the correct word) so how the heck could the three of them FIT in the front?

They're individual seats, but the driver's seat is a little bit wider to accomodate a third person or the armrest when it's down. Three will fit, but it's not like the bench seats in the older Caddy's.

[youshouldveknown]

I believe someone brought up the possibility that MJD may have turned a trick with Alonzo before LDJ was picked up because of the panties being in her shirt or at the very least not on her bottom.

If this is the case, then it wouldn't be surprising that her shoes were in the backseat.

I wonder if LDJ caught on and got jealous...

[youshouldveknown]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/anniesometimes/19740006mm.jpg



I did a little editing on this photo.. inverted colors, sharpened, flipped and changed the contrast. It's a liiiittle bit better. I can make out a few words.

I see 'far from' and at the end I see 'better'. Maybe you guys can take a look and see what you make out.

[VASHLEY88]

I believe someone brought up the possibility that MJD may have turned a trick with Alonzo before LDJ was picked up because of the panties being in her shirt or at the very least not on her bottom.

If this is the case, then it wouldn't be surprising that her shoes were in the backseat.

I wonder if LDJ caught on and got jealous...

Good point, youshouldveknown. It's a great possibility that that is what happened! But when they ran the rape kit wouldn't they have gotten Alonzo's semen/hair/skin, etc? I guess even if they did and her body showed no obvious signs of sexual trauma he could have just said he paid her for sex. Or if they found it, they may have just assumed since she was a prostitute she had turned some tricks that day. I don't know, I guess it's easy to make a bigger deal out of her being barefoot when it could be a totally "innocent"-ish reason..

[Vask]

Regarding the seat: the armrest flips up similar to a lot of the older trucks giving it the appearance of a bench seat and allowing for a 3rd person more comfortably.

The hospital band: there's a 2nd one further to the left (not shown in Phenol's pic) underneath the shoulder strap. It's visible in photo # 19740006.

[youshouldveknown]

Even if she blew him, I could see her taking her shoes off for that. But you're right.. none of it has any relevence to her identity.

[Vask]

I had a thought last night as I was 'trying' to sleep.

Can we find out her blood type? Certain blood type are more prevalent in certain areas/nationalities, and from that you can also probably tell her parent's blood types etc etc and trace a line of blood types to nationalities/possible origins.
http://anthro.palomar.edu/vary/vary_3.htm

[phenolred]

Regarding the seat: the armrest flips up similar to a lot of the older trucks giving it the appearance of a bench seat and allowing for a 3rd person more comfortably.

The hospital band: there's a 2nd one further to the left (not shown in Phenol's pic) underneath the shoulder strap. It's visible in photo # 19740006.


here is another view, its shows boths for some reason I didnt see the 2nd one, I was focused in on the one on top

[Cubby]

Did anyone notice the Hospital wristband in the one pic by the Arizona ID wonder WHO had been in the hospital??

here is a cropped pic and also one of the Dollar Bill business card


FWIW the number on the Dollar Bill business card is clearly 602-660-8457,
I'm guessing the DL or ID in the photos belongs to Alonzo... the hair style does not look like a female style.

Fmw63, Thanks for inquiring regarding the minors associated with Alonzo being interviewed- shown photo's of MJD. I realize as minors their names will remain private, however I think they may be the link to her ID or at least a location KL may have picked her up along their route. May I ask one more question? Have they had any luck in finding Robin "A"? I wonder if she might recall the place or places MJD "crashed".

I sure hope LDJ is still cooperating with LE. If they stopped at a home, and MJD picked up a back pack surely she may have been STAYING in that home, it could have been a place she "crashed", and if the owner is identified via a title search,even if the home was an investment property hopefully that person will still recall the tenant(s) at the time. I WISH she would call anonymously..... if she has any info she is hesitant to share. Heck, Christine offered to take it via LTWH, and heck, she can block the call and just do it! Even if she called crimestoppers...... someone anyone! PLEASE! :praying:

[believe09]

Regarding the seat: the armrest flips up similar to a lot of the older trucks giving it the appearance of a bench seat and allowing for a 3rd person more comfortably.

The hospital band: there's a 2nd one further to the left (not shown in Phenol's pic) underneath the shoulder strap. It's visible in photo # 19740006.

OK-now two hospital bands make me suspect that neither one belongs to MJD...and there goes my interest in them, lol.

[VASHLEY88]

OK-now two hospital bands make me suspect that neither one belongs to MJD...and there goes my interest in them, lol.

I'm sure both of them have either the same name or Alonzo's and Lindsey's names, otherwise they would have been able to ID MJD when the wristbands were located in the luggage. They are seemingly hospital bracelets but they could be luggage tags. They do look more like ER bands though, for sure. Anyway, I doubt they are relevant to ID'ing MJD. But it drives me NUTS not being able to see what all that paperwork says or what's written on those notebook pages! It looks more like female handwriting to me, larger and bubbly. It could be anyone's though. :mad:

ETA- those are definitely hospital bracelets now that I had a closer look..

[Teresa Larson]

Given the amount of walking MJD might have been doing typically in her shoes, I guess it is not such a surprise to me that she might have taken them off at any opportunity, also given her estimated age. What actually surprised me was to see that the front seats of the caddy were captain's chairs (I do not know the correct word) so how the heck could the three of them FIT in the front?


The arm rests lift up so 3 people could easily ride in the front seat.

[Zanko]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/anniesometimes/19740006mm.jpg



I did a little editing on this photo.. inverted colors, sharpened, flipped and changed the contrast. It's a liiiittle bit better. I can make out a few words.

I see 'far from' and at the end I see 'better'. Maybe you guys can take a look and see what you make out.

From the other thread with photos:
FWIW
Here's what I think the letter says,

Line 1: Now I'm far from
Line 2: ?ing to better
Line 3: ? and I feel
Line 4: further he gets to
Line 5: I (I'm:?) slowly slipping away
Line 6: ?? together

It may be folded in a way that there are key words missing. For example Line 3 to Line 4 most likely is missing the word "the". I'd guess the word missing between line 4 and 5 is "me". Purely speculation: Now I'm far from wanting to better myself and I feel the further he gets to me I'm slowing slipping away.....

[youshouldveknown]

From the other thread with photos:
FWIW
Here's what I think the letter says,

Line 1: Now I'm far from
Line 2: ?ing to better
Line 3: ? and I feel
Line 4: further he gets to
Line 5: I (I'm:?) slowly slipping away
Line 6: ?? together

It may be folded in a way that there are key words missing. For example Line 3 to Line 4 most likely is missing the word "the". I'd guess the word missing between line 4 and 5 is "me". Purely speculation: Now I'm far from wanting to better myself and I feel the further he gets to me I'm slowing slipping away.....



That's kind of sad.

[VASHLEY88]

From the other thread with photos:
FWIW
Here's what I think the letter says,

Line 1: Now I'm far from
Line 2: ?ing to better
Line 3: ? and I feel
Line 4: further he gets to
Line 5: I (I'm:?) slowly slipping away
Line 6: ?? together

It may be folded in a way that there are key words missing. For example Line 3 to Line 4 most likely is missing the word "the". I'd guess the word missing between line 4 and 5 is "me". Purely speculation: Now I'm far from wanting to better myself and I feel the further he gets to me I'm slowing slipping away.....


how sad. :frown:

[Fairy1]

Phoenix police say they've broken up a major prostitution ring that operated in the region and set up dates through Web sites.




http://www.azcentral.com/community/nephoenix/articles/2008/08/05/20080805az-prostitution0805.html

[Teresa Larson]

I am sure the LE has already looked at all of these papers etc. If any of it was important enough or could ID MJD they would have already checked it out. IMO

[youshouldveknown]

because they've done such a great job so far...

[Fairy1]

I am sure the LE has already looked at all of these papers etc. If any of it was important enough or could ID MJD they would have already checked it out. IMO


I am NOT sure. Honestly, if LE was that on top of things, MJD would have been ID'd 9 1/2 years ago....:)

[Teresa Larson]

There are 1000's of people that are unidentified and the LE's did all they could do to identify them. I can't say IMO whether they botched this case or not.

[Fairy1]

:confused::confused::confused::confused:There are 1000's of people that are unidentified and the LE's did all they could do to identify them. I can't say IMO whether they botched this case or not.

Well, if I had to guess, I would say "No." If you look - seriously - at everything we've seen here, it seems clear LE hasn't done everything in their power to find the identities of UID's. In MJD's case - and countless others in the US. How can you possibly say what you're saying here???:confused::confused::confused::confused::co nfused::confused:

[VASHLEY88]

As a step daughter of a federal law enforcement agent-- I have to chime in here. Runaway and prostitution cases/incidents are seldom ever given much attention. There are countless runaways and countless prostitutes who go unidentified, not because it's necessarily impossible, but because they are NOT priority. IMO, MJD's case has a lot of fill-in-the-blanks that could have easily been filled in almost TEN YEARS AGO. I am not trying to say that LE didn't do anything to try to find an identity for her, but unfortunately getting this poor girl an identity is probably not on the top of their list.

[Teresa Larson]

As a step daughter of a federal law enforcement agent-- I have to chime in here. Runaway and prostitution cases/incidents are seldom ever given much attention. There are countless runaways and countless prostitutes who go unidentified, not because it's necessarily impossible, but because they are NOT priority. IMO, MJD's case has a lot of fill-in-the-blanks that could have easily been filled in almost TEN YEARS AGO. I am not trying to say that LE didn't do anything to try to find an identity for her, but unfortunately getting this poor girl an identity is probably not on the top of their list.


I will say those Sheriffs in Maricopa County are always very busy. Look at how many jails they have. I do know that one small slip up can ruin the chances of identifying somebody. I would have to agree with them not making a big priority out of finding out who a dead prostitute was. In all fairness though MJD may not have had any ID since she was so young.

[believe09]

When you consider the number of officers that work any particular case vs the number of sleuthers who have the time and energy, there is no comparison.

Botched? I don't think so. For almost 10 years LE has had the people in hand or accessible who could give a name to her. They say they don't know it; or they continue to hide it. I am sure the feeling was that someone would have missed her by now and would have come forward. And in the meantime, crime after crime piles up on the desk of the detectives.

That's why there is a need for folks like us-we have the luxury of digging in on a single case or two and following it until the end....

[phenolred]

had an Idea

There is a newspaper in Phoenix called the Bachelors Beat or the Beat per wikipedia it has been around for a LONG time....

It advertises escort services and all that kind of stuff,,,adult businesses etc...

I wonder if they have archives they could go back in and look for Dollar Bill or Kc Slim or maybe even a pic of MJD maybe there is something in their archives in the personals

here is a link to their website

http://www.bachelorsbeat.com/

[youshouldveknown]

had an Idea

There is a newspaper in Phoenix called the Bachelors Beat or the Beat per wikipedia it has been around for a LONG time....

It advertises escort services and all that kind of stuff,,,adult businesses etc...

I wonder if they have archives they could go back in and look for Dollar Bill or Kc Slim or maybe even a pic of MJD maybe there is something in their archives in the personals

here is a link to their website

http://www.bachelorsbeat.com/

That's a good idea.

[believe09]

That's a good idea.


Go girls!!! Jump in and write something up to send with the photo of the business card!!!

[Vask]

HAH I remember this paper. During my freshman year, some chick had a pager # ONE NUMBER off of mine, with my same name, and guess who got all the calls? Changed my number cause of that.
One guy was nice enough to tell us the paper it was in and everything about the ad (the description actually fit me- we thought it was my ex playing a sick payback joke). My mom and I waded through all the gross crap in there to find it. o_O

had an Idea

There is a newspaper in Phoenix called the Bachelors Beat or the Beat per wikipedia it has been around for a LONG time....

It advertises escort services and all that kind of stuff,,,adult businesses etc...

I wonder if they have archives they could go back in and look for Dollar Bill or Kc Slim or maybe even a pic of MJD maybe there is something in their archives in the personals

here is a link to their website

http://www.bachelorsbeat.com/

Sorry I haven't been around too much last couple days. My daughter came home yesterday from a 2 week vacation and her dad's still in town until tomorrow evening.

[phenolred]

does anyone want to contact them? Ive got a really full schedule today or I would....I also found a website for phoenix girls

one on the front pages name is Carla........

http://www.phoenixwebgirls.com/intro.html


ive had not luck finding Robin angers or white

[Fairy1]

As a step daughter of a federal law enforcement agent-- I have to chime in here. Runaway and prostitution cases/incidents are seldom ever given much attention. There are countless runaways and countless prostitutes who go unidentified, not because it's necessarily impossible, but because they are NOT priority. IMO, MJD's case has a lot of fill-in-the-blanks that could have easily been filled in almost TEN YEARS AGO. I am not trying to say that LE didn't do anything to try to find an identity for her, but unfortunately getting this poor girl an identity is probably not on the top of their list.

I understand LE is busy and have an awful lot on their plates. But IMO - MJD was a victim all around. And the bottom line is, she was a CHILD and a human being. I shudder to think how many kids like her are out there in the world, on their own and being exploited. These are the kids who are falling through the cracks. The most vulnerable of our society. It breaks my heart. In MJD's case, not only is a child unidentified nearly 10 years later (which I doubt anyone involved could have anticipated), but quite possibly a victim of murder. That car was compromised in LE's possession. I realize there are facts in this case we do not yet know, but it really breaks my heart.

This week in Vegas, we had an arrest of 2 people - a 21 Y/O girl and a 31 Y/O man who murdered a 17 Y/O runaway. He was pimping her out on Craigslist and the 3 of them were caught up in a "love triangle." He killed her, knocked out all her teeth, cut off all her tatoos and buried her in the desert. Sadly, these murderers have a newborn baby and CPS cannot determine exactly when the victim entered the foster care system. Sorry, but WTF? :furious:

[believe09]

I understand LE is busy and have an awful lot on their plates. But IMO - MJD was a victim all around. And the bottom line is, she was a CHILD and a human being. I shudder to think how many kids like her are out there in the world, on their own and being exploited. These are the kids who are falling through the cracks. The most vulnerable of our society. It breaks my heart. In MJD's case, not only is a child unidentified nearly 10 years later (which I doubt anyone involved could have anticipated), but quite possibly a victim of murder. That car was compromised in LE's possession. I realize there are facts in this case we do not yet know, but it really breaks my heart.

This week in Vegas, we had an arrest of 2 people - a 21 Y/O girl and a 31 Y/O man who murdered a 17 Y/O runaway. He was pimping her out on Craigslist and the 3 of them were caught up in a "love triangle." He killed her, knocked out all her teeth, cut off all her tatoos and buried her in the desert. Sadly, these murderers have a newborn baby and CPS cannot determine exactly when the victim entered the foster care system. Sorry, but WTF? :furious:

This story represents why these children are such perfect victims...and why they go so long unclaimed and UID'd. Every state should operate like the Michigan Foster care system, imho. They have a website where foster families can report the children as runaways-and their pictures are posted on the website. At least there is a record of their disappearance somewhere...does it capture every single one? I am sure it does not-I suspect the reporting is done based on the culpability of the foster family...but at least it is a start. And if case workers cannot get in touch with the children, their pictures go up on the website I believe.

[Teresa Larson]

It's especially hard to identify children when they are found dead because they do not carry any ID on them like most adults do. Which leaves the police very little to go on.

[SassyAnne]

Hello everyone! I found this web site a few days ago. I am planning to move to Avondale in Maricopa county, so I am really, really interested in this case. With seven + threads to sort thru, it will be awhile be fore i join any chats. This girl has really struck a chord with me, so if in the meantime, ANY earth-shattering news comes up - please contact me. Just a thought... is there a way that we can get her case posted in other countries?

[believe09]

Hello everyone! I found this web site a few days ago. I am planning to move to Avondale in Maricopa county, so I am really, really interested in this case. With seven + threads to sort thru, it will be awhile be fore i join any chats. This girl has really struck a chord with me, so if in the meantime, ANY earth-shattering news comes up - please contact me. Just a thought... is there a way that we can get her case posted in other countries?


Welcome SA!!! It is great to know that you are going to be somewhat local!!!

I am not sure what we would gain from spreading her story to other countries; let me know your thought process on that...

[SassyAnne]

Thanks. From what I have read so far, some of you have thought that she could be foreign. Other countries have to have similar missing ppl programs as we do:confused:. It's just a matter of finding them! ttyl, gotta go to work:behindbar

[SassyAnne]

or she could be from a foreign family and maybe the family had to leave and go back to wherever they came from due to illegal immigration.

[Cubby]

Hi and Welcome SassyAnne!

:Welcome-12-june:

[dee10134]

Hello everyone! I was on vacation last week so I've been out of it for a while. I just caught up on the new thread and am ready to dive back in head first.

Just to let you all know, I'm still working on the angle that KTL was part-business owner of an entertainment/promotions company. I'm still trying to connect him fully to it, so when I can make a solid connection, I'll post that info. I'd rather not post the company name if they have or had no connection to him, if you know what I mean?

Also, I'll see what I can do with some of the evidence photos. I'm a Photoshop expert and can possibly manipulate the pics to make them legible. I'm really curious about the driver's license; I'd like to know if it says "Alonzo Fernandez" or "William Walker"......

[fmw63]

Also, I'll see what I can do with some of the evidence photos. I'm a Photoshop expert and can possibly manipulate the pics to make them legible. I'm really curious about the driver's license; I'd like to know if it says "Alonzo Fernandez" or "William Walker"......

I bet it's Alonzo Fernandez, since that's the name the car registration was under, and the name he gave police.

[phenolred]

FOUND THE CAR DEALER SHIP GUY THAT GAVE

the report of the argument he saw I guess we could get it from the horses mouth WHO he saw on the news...etc etc or anything else he can remember

he is still a car deal on VAN BUREN OMG

Seller Details : For Sale by:DealerContact Name:JOEL HXXXXXContact Phone:Toll Free 888-841-4199Address:2246 EAST VAN BUREN PHOENIX, AZ (4.74 miles away)

ps the car is a 2001 dae woo

[fmw63]

FOUND THE CAR DEALER SHIP GUY THAT GAVE

the report of the argument he saw I guess we could get it from the horses mouth WHO he saw on the news...etc etc or anything else he can remember

he is still a car deal on VAN BUREN OMG

Seller Details : For Sale by:DealerContact Name:JOEL HXXXXXContact Phone:Toll Free 888-841-4199Address:2246 EAST VAN BUREN PHOENIX, AZ (4.74 miles away)

ps the car is a 2001 dae woo

Hey, Grandma had one of these & only drove it to church on Sundays!:eek:


...just kidding:crazy::crazy:

Hey Vask! Wanna take this one?

[dee10134]

I found a Robin White who lived on Oak Street and on 16th Street (different years) in Phoenix. The listings have phone numbers too.

[SassyAnne]

Hi again. Does anyone have the ME's web page link by any chance?

[VASHLEY88]

Hi again. Does anyone have the ME's web page link by any chance?


http://www.maricopa.gov/medex/Unidentified/search.aspx?caseNum=99-0305

there ya go. Welcome! :)

[SassyAnne]

Thanks Vashley

[Vask]

I'll have more time to work on this once my daughter goes back to school on Monday. I've had some personal things come up and will be spending now through the weekend moving in with family.

Phenol, have you made positive contact to be sure it's the right guy? I don't want to end up annoying somebody who really has nothing to do with this case (especially when they're a complete stranger).


Hey Vask! Wanna take this one?

[believe09]

I'll have more time to work on this once my daughter goes back to school on Monday. I've had some personal things come up and will be spending now through the weekend moving in with family.

Phenol, have you made positive contact to be sure it's the right guy? I don't want to end up annoying somebody who really has nothing to do with this case (especially when they're a complete stranger).

I hope you are all OK, Vask...

[SassyAnne]

I have not completely caught up on all the threads, but I have found a library (in Maricopa Co.) that has a 24/7 librarian chat line. I asked her about getting high school and middle school year books on-line. she said that she would get back to me in a day or two. the only thing I can do right now is go state to state, county by county, and districts and search yearbooks. If I see someone who I think is her, I will see if that particular person has been listed as a missing person or not.

[SassyAnne]

could take me a long time tho, so I am glad I have music. lol

[Teresa Larson]

could take me a long time tho, so I am glad I have music. lol

As far as we know MJD has never been reported missing.

[SassyAnne]

anything is possible, I am going try due to the fact that I am not in a position to do much of anything else. this girl deserves a name.

[phenolred]

I'll have more time to work on this once my daughter goes back to school on Monday. I've had some personal things come up and will be spending now through the weekend moving in with family.

Phenol, have you made positive contact to be sure it's the right guy? I don't want to end up annoying somebody who really has nothing to do with this case (especially when they're a complete stranger).

I havent made contact myself BUT the police report indicates the name of the car lot and it is the same as this one so IM SURE it is him what are the chances there is a man working there with the same 1st and last name of the man that worked there in 99...so its GOT to be him I found a local number as well
Sky Harbor Auto Sales

2246 E van Buren St
Phoenix, AZ 85006 http://local.botw.org/images/validicon.png


(602) 244-2424

Business Type:
Automobiles, New and Used

[ArizonaGiGi]

The reporter just called me to do a short phone interview.
She asked me
1) How I found Websleuths. Told her about local missing man and that I had done an internet search of his name, Michael Tapley, and that WS popped up.
2) She asked me what types of things I do on or for WS cases. I told her that I am fairly new (April 08) and only keep up with four threads, MJD being one of them.
3) She asked me what about MJD got me interested in the case. I told her that since MJD was in AZ, my state, I was interested in the case, but that MJD herself caught my heart because she is a pretty, young and innocent looking girl and that I have 3 girls near her age so felt a connection.

That's about all and she said she was calling others. And, I'm a terrible sleuther - no I didn't ask her when the story would be out. I hadn't had my coffee yet, sorry :crazy: I'm just hoping that I didn't sound like a complete idiot.

[SassyAnne]

Hi ya all! I know that the possibility of MJD being foreign has been explored. some of you have even thought that she could be Russian. What if her family HAD lived in the U.s. and they were illegals and deported? I wonder if there is way to get info on deportation cases. we could do follow ups and see if any of them had made missing person reports in their country and in ours? what do ya all think?

[lorelei]

Hi ya all! I know that the possibility of MJD being foreign has been explored. some of you have even thought that she could be Russian. What if her family HAD lived in the U.s. and they were illegals and deported? I wonder if there is way to get info on deportation cases. we could do follow ups and see if any of them had made missing person reports in their country and in ours? what do ya all think?

I am not sure that immigration records are available to the public, its usually considered private information for the most part. I will look it up though and see what the rules are on deportation records. I think that it would be worse than trying to find a needle in a haystack though, since there are so many people deported each year and we don't have any idea where MJD is from (in US or possibly overseas). I'll try to figure out if those records are public though.

[SassyAnne]

long shot, but hey, when my brain gets to popping with questions, my fingers start walking. lol Ty Lorelei

[lorelei]

long shot, but hey, when my brain gets to popping with questions, my fingers start walking. lol Ty Lorelei

I'm the same way:) I think I did try to look up missing persons sites for other countries but didnt have much luck. It seemed like either countries didn't have the sites or I couldn't find them/read them due to not knowing the language.

I tried to figure out about the deportation records but I had sort of a hard time finding the info explained very clearly. It looks like maybe we'd have to file Freedom of Information Act requests for individual named people. I am not completely sure but I don't think that they give out lists with names of everyone, its either general statistics (ie # deported to X country type of stuff) or you need to have a certain person in mind I think.

[SassyAnne]

I found an ask a lawyer website, so I am hoping that they can give me info on deportation laws. I have always had an overactive imagination and can ask some bazaar questions. lol. thanks for not telling me to shut up. lol. have a good night lorelei

[phenolred]

someone responded to my request for contact info for Robin Angers. They listed name alias's addreses and phone #'s I dont know if it is actually her but it might be worth a try.....here is a link to the info

http://www.city-data.com/forum/people-search/400556-looking-robin-angers-lived-phoenix-arizona.html

[SassyAnne]

Can anyone get me list of missing ppl databases please? I just finally got a look at MJD's tattoo. It does look like a butterfly and it most definitely could be covering another tat. I was wondering about the making of that tat. If it had been professional, it could have narrowed MJD's age. I am 30yr. old and up till two years ago ppl thought that I was still 16 or 17. I am so thankful that I have my mom's genes, but it really rots when my friends think that she is my sister and hits on her. Lorelei did you find anything on deportation laws? I have hit nothing but dead ends. I will try calling the INS and the FBI on immigration laws on monday.

[believe09]

Can anyone get me list of missing ppl databases please? I just finally got a look at MJD's tattoo. It does look like a butterfly and it most definitely could be covering another tat. I was wondering about the making of that tat. If it had been professional, it could have narrowed MJD's age. I am 30yr. old and up till two years ago ppl thought that I was still 16 or 17. I am so thankful that I have my mom's genes, but it really rots when my friends think that she is my sister and hits on her. Lorelei did you find anything on deportation laws? I have hit nothing but dead ends. I will try calling the INS and the FBI on immigration laws on monday.

This should get you started: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31441

[SassyAnne]

thanks believe09

[lorelei]

Can anyone get me list of missing ppl databases please? I just finally got a look at MJD's tattoo. It does look like a butterfly and it most definitely could be covering another tat. I was wondering about the making of that tat. If it had been professional, it could have narrowed MJD's age. I am 30yr. old and up till two years ago ppl thought that I was still 16 or 17. I am so thankful that I have my mom's genes, but it really rots when my friends think that she is my sister and hits on her. Lorelei did you find anything on deportation laws? I have hit nothing but dead ends. I will try calling the INS and the FBI on immigration laws on monday.


I'm still a bit confused:crazy:. Basically we could access the records but we'd need individual names and personal info on the people to get their records. USCIS has a form to fill out to get records- I think it would be this one.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=6f2a4154d7b3d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCR D&vgnextchannel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=6f2a4154d7b3d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCR D&vgnextchannel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD)
The link to download the form is at the very very bottom of that page- form G-639. If you look at it, you are supposed to fill out the persons full name, DOB, alien registration number, etc. I think that all we would be able to access without permission from the individual would be deportation records because those are public- all/most other immigration records are private and require a signature of consent from that person for us to see their records. Even though the deportation records are public I don't think they are released without filling out a person-specific request like this form.

In terms of MJDs age- they did look at her X rays to determine her age. When people are younger they have growth plates at the end of the bones that are a softer tissue, new bone forms from those plates when you're growing. Once you're past like 18-20ish those plates have completely stopped growing new bone and solidify into the ends of the long bones. I'd guess since the x rays showed her to be 13-15, she must have had those plates still for sure and she couldn't be any older than possibly late teens.
I can't help much on the tattoo though sorry, I am terribly scared of needles so have a hard time looking at tattoos for long & don't know much about them lol.

ETA- I think those plates are called epiphyseal plates, they mention that an ME looked at MJDs xrays in the ME report, I think its one of the last pages of the report.

[believe09]

I'm still a bit confused:crazy:. Basically we could access the records but we'd need individual names and personal info on the people to get their records. USCIS has a form to fill out to get records- I think it would be this one.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=6f2a4154d7b3d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCR D&vgnextchannel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=6f2a4154d7b3d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCR D&vgnextchannel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD)
The link to download the form is at the very very bottom of that page- form G-639. If you look at it, you are supposed to fill out the persons full name, DOB, alien registration number, etc. I think that all we would be able to access without permission from the individual would be deportation records because those are public- all/most other immigration records are private and require a signature of consent from that person for us to see their records. Even though the deportation records are public I don't think they are released without filling out a person-specific request like this form.

In terms of MJDs age- they did look at her X rays to determine her age. When people are younger they have growth plates at the end of the bones that are a softer tissue, new bone forms from those plates when you're growing. Once you're past like 18-20ish those plates have completely stopped growing new bone and solidify into the ends of the long bones. I'd guess since the x rays showed her to be 13-15, she must have had those plates still for sure and she couldn't be any older than possibly late teens.
I can't help much on the tattoo though sorry, I am terribly scared of needles so have a hard time looking at tattoos for long & don't know much about them lol.

ETA- I think those plates are called epiphyseal plates, they mention that an ME looked at MJDs xrays in the ME report, I think its one of the last pages of the report.

You got it in terms of what was used to narrow her age...poor baby.

[believe09]

thanks believe09

You are welcome! We love fresh eyes here-this is where you will learn that there is no central data base for missing/uid's and it is everyone's best guess and circumstances that cause them to list on one site vs another....

[believe09]

Our girl has been uploaded to the DOJ initiative database for UID's which will run against NamUs in 2009. I found her dentals on the data base and they are distinctive: https://identifyus.org/?p=case&i=53&pos=10&s=DateFound_DESC&from=search She has fillings and 4 impacted wisdom teeth...this has to narrow down our field!!!

[Zanko]

With the Medical Examiner's most recent update of those compared and "ruled out as a match". I've updated my photo comparisons. Here are the links. There are five pages. Most have been ruled "not a match". If you have anyone you'd like me to add as a consideration, PM me her name.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/MECompareMJD1.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/MECompareMJD2.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/MECompareMJD3.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/MECompareMJD4.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/MECompareMJD5.jpg

[lorelei]

Our girl has been uploaded to the DOJ initiative database for UID's which will run against NamUs in 2009. I found her dentals on the data base and they are distinctive: https://identifyus.org/?p=case&i=53&pos=10&s=DateFound_DESC&from=search She has fillings and 4 impacted wisdom teeth...this has to narrow down our field!!!

Thanks, that definitely could be helpful! Do you have any idea what those comments mean on the dental thing- all the teeth with fillings have little comments of the lette/rs O, L, D, or M. It looks like O may mean 'other features' but from th/e key I can't see what the other letters mean? Anybody understand dental charts?

ETA- what is NamUs? I have seen this UDRS website before recently, but have never heard of NamUs.

Edited Again-- I looked it up:) I guess I just couldnt' remember the name,I'd def. seen it before. Here is the link in case others hadn't heard of it
http://www.namus.gov/

[Zanko]

From the first thread about Maricopa Jane Doe, posted originally by KT CAN post number: 313

Quote:
Regarding her dental chart:

N = no fillings or restorations
#1,16,17,32 = impacted wisdom tooth
#3 = occlusal filling (top of tooth)
#13 = not sure what they mean by NO, tooth could be missing
#14 = occlusal lingual filling (top & side of tooth facing tounge); FO stands for filling and ???
#18 = mesial occlusal filling (top & front of tooth between teeth)
#19 = occlusal distal filling (top & back of tooth between teeth)
#30 = occlusal filling (top of tooth); FO stands for filling and ???

total of 5 fillings, 4 wisdom teeth
End Quote

[VASHLEY88]

From the first thread about Maricopa Jane Doe, posted originally by KT CAN post number: 313

Quote:
Regarding her dental chart:

N = no fillings or restorations
#1,16,17,32 = impacted wisdom tooth
#3 = occlusal filling (top of tooth)
#13 = not sure what they mean by NO, tooth could be missing
#14 = occlusal lingual filling (top & side of tooth facing tounge); FO stands for filling and ???
#18 = mesial occlusal filling (top & front of tooth between teeth)
#19 = occlusal distal filling (top & back of tooth between teeth)
#30 = occlusal filling (top of tooth); FO stands for filling and ???

total of 5 fillings, 4 wisdom teeth
End Quote

That namUS page has been up for a while, hasn't it? I had researched her dental work some time ago from that page. She had quite a bit of dental work. I heard/read somewhere that F,O on dental charts stood for a filling that had partially fallen off or was not sealed properly, from eating too many sticky candies or something. I don't know how accurate that is, but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with a cavity/filling.

[believe09]

With the Medical Examiner's most recent update of those compared and "ruled out as a match". I've updated my photo comparisons. Here are the links. There are five pages. Most have been ruled "not a match". If you have anyone you'd like me to add as a consideration, PM me her name.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/MECompareMJD1.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/MECompareMJD2.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/MECompareMJD3.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/MECompareMJD4.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/MECompareMJD5.jpg

This is an incredibly fabulous tool for us, and I thank you very much for it!!!~!!!

[SassyAnne]

Wow, that was a really good site and thanks for indentifyus.org. So how can the dental records help us? we can't literally go to EVERY dental office in the U.S.

[Aphra]

Maybe we could find out what dentists in Milwaukee serve children who are wards of the state and send her (modified) photo and dentals. It's a place to start, anyhow.

[SassyAnne]

We could compile a list of dentists by state and e-mail her photo, dentals, the ME website and the Maricopa LE #. With the HIPPA act they will probably never contact any of us, but they should contact the LE or ME. Who wants what states?
I'll start in KY.

[SassyAnne]

Ok, so who wants to do a letter (complete with links) that we all could use and send to the dentists on our lists. I am terrible at writing letters, that's why I e-mail and blog (much to my grandmother's chagrin, lol.)

[believe09]

Wow, that was a really good site and thanks for indentifyus.org. So how can the dental records help us? we can't literally go to EVERY dental office in the U.S.

I admire your enthusiasm but you are right about that-dentals will help us when comparing missing persons to UID's-for example we have dismissed quite a few based on spaces between teeth, broken teeth etc...just like different tattoos etc...am I making sense? Let's say you decide you have a hot possibility for MJD-you call LE to find out if there are prints in AFIS or DNA in CODIS-if not then you ask if there are dentals on file for their missing person. Those dentals can be compared to MJD's dentals and we know if we have a match...

[believe09]

We could compile a list of dentists by state and e-mail her photo, dentals, the ME website and the Maricopa LE #. With the HIPPA act they will probably never contact any of us, but they should contact the LE or ME. Who wants what states?
I'll start in KY.

Don't bother quite yet!! This will be a lot of work when we actually can narrow the focus in other ways...why don't you hit the missing person's sites and see if you can find any possible matches that haven't been already ruled out? This forum is pretty organized and you can use Zanko's side by sides as a guide for some of the possibles. We know our JD is between 13 and 18, blue eyes, brown hair dyed blonde, normal limbs, no obvious defects in terms of scars or birthmarks.

[SassyAnne]

Hi believe09. What is AFIS? I am not familiar with a lot of the terms you all use. I just figured out that LE means Law Enforcement. ME was easy since I used to watch Crossing Jordan all the time, but the terms that they used on the show totally went over my head most of the time.

[believe09]

Hi believe09. What is AFIS? I am not familiar with a lot of the terms you all use. I just figured out that LE means Law Enforcement. ME was easy since I used to watch Crossing Jordan all the time, but the terms that they used on the show totally went over my head most of the time.

My bad- AFIS= Automatic Fingerprint Identification System CODIS- Combined DNA Index System When I first got here, I thought people were speaking a different language so you are already one up on me!!!

[SassyAnne]

Sorry, I'll try to slow down. I just have so many ideas racing thru my head. I am sure that most of my ideas have already been thought of. Now that I have some links, I'll do what you suggested. This girl has tugged at me for a reason. A friend asked me why I got involved in this. He asked if there was a reward and I cringed. Money isn't everything. Oh well, some ppl can be real idiots, so I didn't give him this site.

[Fairy1]

Hi ya'll and welcome to you SassyAnne! Based on the dental information, I feel that MJD was likely not abducted as a small child. It would seem that she was in the care of someone - even foster care - until not long before this incident occurred. Poor baby must have been in a lot of pain from the wisdom teeth! I have seen on other boards where the experts can identify the differences in dental work done in the US versus other countries. That should help to determine her nationality.

[SassyAnne]

Thanks Fairy1 - and I totally agree with you. I have never thought that she could have been abducted as a small child. I do feel that our MJD was one tough cookie, like she had seen way too much in her short life - you know what I mean? There is an African saying "Ina chicua kagigi kazima kumlea mutoto" it means "it takes a whole village to raise a child".

[SassyAnne]

What I would like to know is where is MJD's "village" and why did they fail her?

[SassyAnne]

Has MJD been compared to NATASHA ALEXANDRA CARTER, ERICA LEE FRAYSURE, ANGELA LEE FREEMAN, JENNIFER JANE HUGHES, ROBIN KERRY, CHINA VIDEON and SARA ANNE WOOD?[/I] I doubt that she could be Robin Kerry, Robin has a beauty mark on her neck. I don't recall a mole in the ME report. I know that Natasha carter was compared, was she ever ruled out?

[phenolred]

So, still waiting who wants to try to contact Robin Angers??? Or should we I dont do phones LOL I start stuttering LOL....

[believe09]

Let's see- Natasha Carter-Missing date was 2000, and MJD died 1/1999. Jennifer Jane Hughes: her age would put her at 20 and she had given birth to a child, but you never know. Here is the link: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hughes_jennifer.html China Videon: Went missing in Oct 1999, JD died 1/1999 Sara Wood: We have her listed as a possible, but I personally do not think so because she had foot deformities and leg scars that were not noted on the autopsy of JD.

[Angie4b1g]

Poor baby must have been in a lot of pain from the wisdom teeth!

That's not necessarily true, it just depends how big your jaw is and how they grow. Some people never need to have them removed.

[dee10134]

Hi guys! I needed a break and ended up taking a great weekend getaway with my husband and some of our friends. I'm back and ready to dive head first into the case.

Has anyone heard anything back from the post card sent to Lipsey?

What about the car dealer?

The Crossland Economy Suites?

Robin Angers/White?

Sorry for all the questions... LOL

[dee10134]

That's not necessarily true, it just depends how big your jaw is and how they grow. Some people never need to have them removed.

Also, some people never even have them grow in!

I didn't have good dental care while I was growing up and recently had my first dental exam in my entire life, which included my first ever set of x-rays. I actually lucked out; I only have 4 cavities.

On top of that, I was shocked to find out that I don't even have buds for wisdom teeth so I will never get them. I guess I'm one of the few lucky ones! ;)

[SassyAnne]

poor Sara, I didn't see anything on her foot deformities or leg scars in the NCMEC

[believe09]

poor Sara, I didn't see anything on her foot deformities or leg scars in the NCMEC

Another good tip is when you find a likely match on NCMEC, cross reference them on the Charley Project site. Charley Project and Doe Network typically give more details and circumstances than the clearing house...
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wood_sara.html

snip
one toe on each of her feet is disabled
snip

[phenolred]

here I go thinking again.....

I was thinking maybe she was TIED UP in the back seat and freed herself climed to the front and jumped out...

I say this because the more I thought about the bungee cord being tied and her panties being tangled up in her shirt maybe the panties and bungee cord were used to restrain her in the back and that is why her shoes are back there.....

I cant understand why panties would be tangled up in her short a tank top sort of top....

I have had sex and I have never once gotten my panties tangled in my shirt and worn it around without noticing.

It almost looks like the panties are tied to the shirt to me

[phenolred]

Hi guys! I needed a break and ended up taking a great weekend getaway with my husband and some of our friends. I'm back and ready to dive head first into the case.

Has anyone heard anything back from the post card sent to Lipsey?

What about the car dealer?

The Crossland Economy Suites?

Robin Angers/White?

Sorry for all the questions... LOL

I found em who wants to contact em???
expect Lipsey I think Teresa found and contacted him.....

[believe09]

here I go thinking again.....

I was thinking maybe she was TIED UP in the back seat and freed herself climed to the front and jumped out...

I say this because the more I thought about the bungee cord being tied and her panties being tangled up in her shirt maybe the panties and bungee cord were used to restrain her in the back and that is why her shoes are back there.....

I cant understand why panties would be tangled up in her short a tank top sort of top....

I have had sex and I have never once gotten my panties tangled in my shirt and worn it around without noticing.

It almost looks like the panties are tied to the shirt to me

TMI, phenol-love!!!!!!!!!!!!

[believe09]

I found em who wants to contact em???
expect Lipsey I think Teresa found and contacted him.....

I have not heard back from Economy Suites and I will try again.

[phenolred]

TMI, phenol-love!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL I have however gotten My dress/skirt tucked into my panties without noticing LOL but never PANTIES twisted into my shirt

[dee10134]

here I go thinking again.....

I was thinking maybe she was TIED UP in the back seat and freed herself climed to the front and jumped out...

I say this because the more I thought about the bungee cord being tied and her panties being tangled up in her shirt maybe the panties and bungee cord were used to restrain her in the back and that is why her shoes are back there.....

I cant understand why panties would be tangled up in her short a tank top sort of top....

I have had sex and I have never once gotten my panties tangled in my shirt and worn it around without noticing.

It almost looks like the panties are tied to the shirt to me

I still can't see the panties in that pic! What am I missing? :waitasec:

[dee10134]

I found em who wants to contact em???
expect Lipsey I think Teresa found and contacted him.....

I wish we could find an email address for RA/RW... That's so much easier than calling.... lol.

[fmw63]

I still can't see the panties in that pic! What am I missing? :waitasec:

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/TMMJD/MJD_ID_TawniLee.jpg

[phenolred]

dangit I wish I could turn that shirt label over!!!

[Sable]

dangit I wish I could turn that shirt label over!!!

I'm trying to read that too. I think the first letter on the tag is either an S or a 2.

[phenolred]

I dont see panties at the arrow??? I thought it was the string??? Gotta go untangle my panties out of my shirt BRB......

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/TMMJD/MJD_ID_TawniLee.jpg

[Sable]

looks like there might be a butterfly on the tag drawn to look like a B. tag might say 2TBD?

[phenolred]

looks like there might be a butterfly on the tag drawn to look like a B. tag might say 2TBD?

how on earth are you guys seeing this? all I see it a white tag....Im Jealous all I see is WHITE

I just thought if it were an unusuall brand botique type that we might be able to find where the shirt was bought.

[Sable]

I'm using a laptop, and if i tilt the screen just right it gives enough contrast to read the label. also helps to flip the image horizontally and rotate 180 degrees.

[believe09]

I thought the string was the spaghetti straps of her ribbed tank/sweater-like maybe it tied at the shoulders? It looks like it was cut down the front by the EMT's.

[believe09]

LOL I have however gotten My dress/skirt tucked into my panties without noticing LOL but never PANTIES twisted into my shirt

O/t if you would like to share this story, we are all ears friend...:rolleyes:

[Cymro]

One thing concerns me about MJD's wisdom teeth:


We know she was young (unfused bones make her appear to be about 15);
Yet she had wisdom teeth coming through (which I didn't get until 24).


So that sounds like an unusual combination that could only come together for a very short period of time in any individual's life.

Presumably she was a runaway who would probably not have had dental care for a few months - in other words, quite probably the few months when her wisdom teeth would have come through.

Therefore although we can rule out people with more wisdom teeth, or more fillings, there has to be a distinct possibility that MJD at the time of her death would not have matched her own dental records due to the sudden appearance on the scene of her wisdom teeth.

[lorelei]

One thing concerns me about MJD's wisdom teeth:


We know she was young (unfused bones make her appear to be about 15);
Yet she had wisdom teeth coming through (which I didn't get until 24).
So that sounds like an unusual combination that could only come together for a very short period of time in any individual's life.

Presumably she was a runaway who would probably not have had dental care for a few months - in other words, quite probably the few months when her wisdom teeth would have come through.

Therefore although we can rule out people with more wisdom teeth, or more fillings, there has to be a distinct possibility that MJD at the time of her death would not have matched her own dental records due to the sudden appearance on the scene of her wisdom teeth.

Impacted doesn't necessarily mean that the teeth are at a stage where they would come through yet, I think it just means they haven't come through your gums yet. That could be either because they are fully grown but grew strangely, or just that they are too small to erupt yet. Wisdom teeth tend to grow a long time before you see them- I had to get one pulled at 14 years old but I think they knew it might be a problem from my Xrays around age 11/12 because it grew wrong from the start?

Hopefully the people who check dental records would take age and growing or new teeth into account when trying to match people, especially someone who was probably a teenager?

[Teresa Larson]

I don't see panties any place in the picture I see the sleeve of her sweater and the belt of the sweater. It was to my understanding they found the panties after she went to the hospital.

[SassyAnne]

ok here is the pics I cropped the one to show where I think the panties are.

however now that I look at it, it looks like a shoe string

Phenol how on earth did you get that pic?:confused::waitasec::confused: and how can I get a look at the LE report?

[lorelei]

ok here is the pics I cropped the one to show where I think the panties are.

however now that I look at it, it looks like a shoe string

That is her bra strap, if it isn't part of her shirt. This pic shows what looks like a bra, its easier to see in this one because its shot from the opposite angle- I'll try to link to it.

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/TMMJD/MJD_ID_TawniLee.jpg

SassyAnne- the pictures are all linked in the "Pictures- warning graphic images" thread. I tried to figure out how to post the link for you but I kept messing it up sorry:)

[Fairy1]

Phenol how on earth did you get that pic?:confused::waitasec::confused: and how can I get a look at the LE report?


:confused: I don't see anything that looks like panties in that pic. If you look closely, the fabric where the arrow is matches that of the rest of the top. Not that any of this matters in relation to identifying MJD, but I don't want to think I'm crazy or blind!!!

On another note....my SIL told me about her best friend this weekend which got me thinking. This young women is alone in the world - except for her own daughter. Her mother left when she was a baby and her father was abusive. No siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. She ran away when she was 16 and never looked back. Under circumstances like these, it's easy to understand why no one would be looking for this child. This may not be MJD's story, but sadly, it could be. :mad:

[lorelei]

I looked at it again- it is definitely not a bra, it is her shirt. I just couldn't see the texture of the shirt from the pic I posted and was imagining things. I think its just the straps of her shirt. The strap part does look sort of bra-like though I guess?

[MsRyber]

We know she was young (unfused bones make her appear to be about 15);
Yet she had wisdom teeth coming through (which I didn't get until 24).



I had 4 impacted, came out when I was 17.
They had not "erupted", but they would have crowded if they would have been allowed to come up.

[Fairy1]

We know she was young (unfused bones make her appear to be about 15);
Yet she had wisdom teeth coming through (which I didn't get until 24).


I had 4 impacted, came out when I was 17.
They had not "erupted", but they would have crowded if they would have been allowed to come up.

So....what does this mean? My daughter is 19 and does not have wisdom teeth AT ALL!

[SassyAnne]

I am looking at the photobucket pics, but thanks anyway Lorelei, HOW did you all get these pics?????

[Fairy1]

I am looking at the photobucket pics, but thanks anyway Lorelei, HOW did you all get these pics?????


Fmw did it. He is our HERO!!! :blowkiss:

[SassyAnne]

Well, FMW, you seem to be a man of many talents and resources. Wanna share your secrets???:)

[Fairy1]

Well, FMW, you seem to be a man of many talents and resources. Wanna share your secrets???:)

All of the crime scene photos are posted here - though I can't remember where......exactly. And fmw has the inside track to LE. Again....our HERO!

[Teresa Larson]

This was posted in the police report

ONCE MEASUREMENTS WERE COMPLETED, I COLLECTED SIX ITEMS FROM THE SCENE:

FLORAL PRINT SHEET
WHITE SHIRT
BLACK SKIRT
GOLD COLORED NECKLACE
WITH CLEAR STONES
BUNGEE CORD
TWO TROJAN CONDOMS
WHITE PANTIES**
WITH GOLD COLORED RING AND CROSS PENDANT
**ITEM 372-7 (PANTIES) WAS FOUND THE FOLLOWING DAY WHEN PACKAGING 372-2(SHIRT). THE PANTIES WERE TANGLED UP IN THE SHIRT. I PACKAGED EACH ITEM SEPARATELY AND GAVE THE PANTIES ITEM NUMBER 372-7.

[Fairy1]

This was posted in the police report

ONCE MEASUREMENTS WERE COMPLETED, I COLLECTED SIX ITEMS FROM THE SCENE:

FLORAL PRINT SHEET
WHITE SHIRT
BLACK SKIRT
GOLD COLORED NECKLACE
WITH CLEAR STONES
BUNGEE CORD
TWO TROJAN CONDOMS
WHITE PANTIES**
WITH GOLD COLORED RING AND CROSS PENDANT
**ITEM 372-7 (PANTIES) WAS FOUND THE FOLLOWING DAY WHEN PACKAGING 372-2(SHIRT). THE PANTIES WERE TANGLED UP IN THE SHIRT. I PACKAGED EACH ITEM SEPARATELY AND GAVE THE PANTIES ITEM NUMBER 372-7.


Then they found something that I do not see. Do you?

[Fairy1]

This was posted in the police report

ONCE MEASUREMENTS WERE COMPLETED, I COLLECTED SIX ITEMS FROM THE SCENE:

FLORAL PRINT SHEET
WHITE SHIRT
BLACK SKIRT
GOLD COLORED NECKLACE
WITH CLEAR STONES
BUNGEE CORD
TWO TROJAN CONDOMS
WHITE PANTIES**
WITH GOLD COLORED RING AND CROSS PENDANT
**ITEM 372-7 (PANTIES) WAS FOUND THE FOLLOWING DAY WHEN PACKAGING 372-2(SHIRT). THE PANTIES WERE TANGLED UP IN THE SHIRT. I PACKAGED EACH ITEM SEPARATELY AND GAVE THE PANTIES ITEM NUMBER 372-7.


I'm thinking they were tangled up in the shirt AFTER the paramedics cut her clothes off for treatment at the scene.

[fmw63]

Then they found something that I do not see. Do you?

Nope. I think they saw exactly what y'all saw at first, too - what looked like one item of clothing actually turned out to be two.

[Teresa Larson]

I am sure they probably got cut off of her by the paramedics.

[Fairy1]

Nope. I think they saw exactly what y'all saw - what looked like one item of clothing actually turned out to be two.

Sorry - MY HERO - I just don't see it. Even so, these articles of clothing were photographed AFTER they were cut off of MJD, right? They could have easliy been all tangled up.

[phenolred]

O/t if you would like to share this story, we are all ears friend...:rolleyes:
LOL

Well lets just say it involved my sisters wedding reception and large sums of alcohol.....and a bridesmaids dress LOL :eek::eek::eek:

This is why Im not a drinker normally....Last time I did I fell in my own living room in Heels and broke my hand !!!! that was 2 yrs ago thanksgiving LOL....Im NOT a regular drinker or things like this happen LOL

[phenolred]

PRETTY PLEASE someone call the car lot guy....im a big scardy cat

[dee10134]

I thought the string was the spaghetti straps of her ribbed tank/sweater-like maybe it tied at the shoulders? It looks like it was cut down the front by the EMT's.

Me too. I thought that was part of the shirt. I still don't see panties there, no matter how hard I squint. I thought those strings were the spaghetti straps on her shirt and that the other part (that some think are panties) is the back of her shirt....

I should get my eyes checked... :bang: lol

[dee10134]

This was posted in the police report

ONCE MEASUREMENTS WERE COMPLETED, I COLLECTED SIX ITEMS FROM THE SCENE:

FLORAL PRINT SHEET
WHITE SHIRT
BLACK SKIRT
GOLD COLORED NECKLACE
WITH CLEAR STONES
BUNGEE CORD
TWO TROJAN CONDOMS
WHITE PANTIES**
WITH GOLD COLORED RING AND CROSS PENDANT
**ITEM 372-7 (PANTIES) WAS FOUND THE FOLLOWING DAY WHEN PACKAGING 372-2(SHIRT). THE PANTIES WERE TANGLED UP IN THE SHIRT. I PACKAGED EACH
ITEM SEPARATELY AND GAVE THE PANTIES ITEM NUMBER 372-7.



I specifically remember Shaine saying that she did not have panties on, but he never mentioned if they were tangled in her shirt...

[dee10134]

Then they found something that I do not see. Do you?

Fairy, for the life of me I can't see any panties there! Maybe they're somehow under the skirt?

[dee10134]

So....what does this mean? My daughter is 19 and does not have wisdom teeth AT ALL!

I'm 27 and recently found out that I will NEVER get my wisdom teeth because they never grew in, per an x-ray at my dentist in April. My father had the same issue. I guess I'm just lucky since I'll never have to deal with them coming in or having them removed! ;)

[phenolred]

I'm 27 and recently found out that I will NEVER get my wisdom teeth because they never grew in, per an x-ray at my dentist in April. My father had the same issue. I guess I'm just lucky since I'll never have to deal with them coming in or having them removed! ;)
I dont have any under the surface either, my dentist said I was lucky My dad never grew any either maybe its is an inherited thing from fathers...

Or maybe that means we are DUMB!!!

PS I didnt mean to start this Panty contriversy, I just remembered the eyewitness stating she was laying there with a skirt and NO PANTIES which is why I thought they must have been tangled prior to the fall because I dont think the fall knocked them off and into her shirt...

oh and im not saying my age but i am older the dee LOL

[fmw63]

I specifically remember Shaine saying that she did not have panties on, but he never mentioned if they were tangled in her shirt...

Since they were white, like the shirt and with her skidding along the pavement maybe they were just pushed to the side, and it just looked like there weren't any.


...unless someone brought them later...:crazy::crazy::crazy:


TONIGHT ON PERRY MASON: THE CASE OF THE PLANTED PANTIES

[Indianagirl]

I saw the pics of the crime scene, etc... but I never saw pics of what she was wearing. Is there a link?

[fmw63]

I saw the pics of the crime scene, etc... but I never saw pics of what she was wearing. Is there a link?

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/TMMJD/MJD_ID_TawniLee.jpg

[phenolred]

did Shaine recall the bungee cord at all it really looks to me like she could have been tied up with it.... and maybe it was attached to her around her wasit or something

[Indianagirl]

Thank you fmw.

[Indianagirl]

did Shaine recall the bungee cord at all it really looks to me like she could have been tied up with it.... and maybe it was attached to her around her wasit or something

I thought the exact same thing!

[dee10134]

Since they were white, like the shirt and with her skidding along the pavement maybe they were just pushed to the side, and it just looked like there weren't any.


...unless someone brought them later...:crazy::crazy::crazy:


TONIGHT ON PERRY MASON: THE CASE OF THE PLANTED PANTIES

Naaa... I'm sure they were already there. Maybe they were a thong and Shaine got a shot of her butt and thought she didn't have any on...?

[dee10134]

did Shaine recall the bungee cord at all it really looks to me like she could have been tied up with it.... and maybe it was attached to her around her wasit or something

I'll send him an email and ask.

[dee10134]

I dont have any under the surface either, my dentist said I was lucky My dad never grew any either maybe its is an inherited thing from fathers...

Or maybe that means we are DUMB!!!

PS I didnt mean to start this Panty contriversy, I just remembered the eyewitness stating she was laying there with a skirt and NO PANTIES which is why I thought they must have been tangled prior to the fall because I dont think the fall knocked them off and into her shirt...

oh and im not saying my age but i am older the dee LOL

I'm thinking maybe it was a thong and Shaine was mistaken about the no panties thing...

And no, we're not dumb, just special! ;) :blowkiss:

[SassyAnne]

Hey guys. Who is Shaine? and what is the deal with the bungee cord? this is the first that I have heard of it?

[phenolred]

Shaine was the 1st person to reach her and was a witness to the "accident" he held her hand until paramedics arrived. there is a bungee cord in the pic of her clothes and was taken into evidence. The cord looks like it was tied in a knot...or tied together

[SassyAnne]

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/MJD99305/MJD/?action=view&current=19730023.jpg I I can't tell what all the letters are on this bag, the second word is Logic. I am thinking that the first word is Cafe or case. any thoughts?

[SassyAnne]

I am going to try looking up businesses by that name if I can figure out what this bag says.

[SassyAnne]

FMW - can you tell me how to go about viewing the police reports or can you forward them to me? Thanks.

[phenolred]

I am going to try looking up businesses by that name if I can figure out what this bag says.

its Case LOGIC I think its a CD case

[ArizonaGiGi]

its Case LOGIC I think its a CD case

Yep. Case Logic CD case. I have one. You can get them at Walmart and prolly anywhere.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Sorry - MY HERO - I just don't see it. Even so, these articles of clothing were photographed AFTER they were cut off of MJD, right? They could have easliy been all tangled up.

I remember a few weeks ago, Shane said she was wearing a short black skirt WITH NO UNDERWEAR - IIRC. Anybody else remember him saying that?

The only reason this would be pertinent is IF she had taken her panties off or someone else took them off while they were driving. Maybe that's part of the struggle going on while they were driving???

[ArizonaGiGi]

PRETTY PLEASE someone call the car lot guy....im a big scardy cat

I'll be happy to call him.
What's his name and number and exactly what all do you want me to ask him?

[Fairy1]

Have you heard back from Lipsey? I still believe he's our best hope to find out where she is from.

[Teresa Larson]

Have you heard back from Lipsey? I still believe he's our best hope to find out where she is from.

No not yet :mad:

[Fairy1]

No not yet :mad:


:mad: Dang it! He must have enough "girlfriends" already. Sure wish I could pay him a visit under the name Lolita....

[fmw63]

...no new news - been busy at work.:mad:

[Lucy's mom]

Could this be LDJ's new myspace? I know the other one is gone. What do you think?

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=122452662

Never Mind...sorry! Looks like it is another Dejong girl named Lisa.

[Zanko]

I sent a letter to America's Most Wanted quite a while ago, asking for them to do a story on MJD. I received a letter today (although it was dated 5/30/08, it was post marked 8/08/08) from Supervising Producer Steve Katz which read in part, "We received your letter regarding the unidentified young girl who died in January of 1999. Unfortunately, due to the large volume of requests that we receive, we are unable to accept your case for broadcast at this time...." I'm glad I got a response. Too bad it wasn't the one I wanted.

[ArizonaGiGi]

I called the car lot. The guy is off today. i will call again tomorrow.
Is there anything specific you guys want me to ask him?

[believe09]

I called the car lot. The guy is off today. i will call again tomorrow.
Is there anything specific you guys want me to ask him?

Go girl!!! Ask him if the guy he saw MJD with was KTL or Alonzo...did he ever hear any chatter about what happened on the street and who might have known who this girl was? Would he be willing to look at some of the composites and see if we have her accurately depicted?

[Fairy1]

I sent a letter to America's Most Wanted quite a while ago, asking for them to do a story on MJD. I received a letter today (although it was dated 5/30/08, it was post marked 8/08/08) from Supervising Producer Steve Katz which read in part, "We received your letter regarding the unidentified young girl who died in January of 1999. Unfortunately, due to the large volume of requests that we receive, we are unable to accept your case for broadcast at this time...." I'm glad I got a response. Too bad it wasn't the one I wanted.

Well, this is disappointing! But thank you so much for trying. :blowkiss:

[Fairy1]

Could this be LDJ's new myspace? I know the other one is gone. What do you think?

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=122452662

Never Mind...sorry! Looks like it is another Dejong girl named Lisa.

This FREAKS me out! I am from Enumclaw, WA!!!

[Teresa Larson]

This FREAKS me out! I am from Enumclaw, WA!!!

I bet she is related to Lindsey :waitasec:

[Fairy1]

I bet she is related to Lindsey :waitasec:

I think not. However, my daughter's name is LINDSAY!!! I'm beginning to feel like fmw....

[Teresa Larson]

I think not. However, my daughter's name is LINDSAY!!! I'm beginning to feel like fmw....

It's possible they are related with the same last names.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Go girl!!! Ask him if the guy he saw MJD with was KTL or Alonzo...did he ever hear any chatter about what happened on the street and who might have known who this girl was? Would he be willing to look at some of the composites and see if we have her accurately depicted?


Will do and report back asap.

[phenolred]

Someone was checking on the possibility of Lipsey being involved w/ an entertainment co what became of that.

Im patiently waiting for those mugshots. keeping fingers crossed

[believe09]

Someone was checking on the possibility of Lipsey being involved w/ an entertainment co what became of that.

Im patiently waiting for those mugshots. keeping fingers crossed

We are BEGGING everyone right now....

[phenolred]

We are BEGGING everyone right now....
Cool, hey Believe the quote at the bottom of your post, does that say TANGLED in UNDERWARE LOL.....................

[believe09]

Cool, hey Believe the quote at the bottom of your post, does that say TANGLED in UNDERWARE LOL.....................

Ohhh, you make me laugh-we are waiting for the story of the skirt tucked into the pantyhose....waiting....still waiting....:blowkiss:

[dee10134]

Someone was checking on the possibility of Lipsey being involved w/ an entertainment co what became of that.

Im patiently waiting for those mugshots. keeping fingers crossed

That was me. Is there a mod here that I can run this past first?

IDK if I can post the info on the company name or not or the company MySpace since they may not even be involved in KL's torrid "side business". There may be some legality issues with posting the company name in connection with KL's human trafficking, so I don't want to post the info until a moderator or administrator advises me on it first.

I also sent Shaine a question regarding the bungee cord and am awaiting his reply.

[dee10134]

I've gotten bitten by the Caylee Anthony case so I'm sorry if I'm not around as much as I normally am...

Does anyone know which mod frequents the MJD board the most so I can email him/her about the entertainment co. info I found? Or can I just PM it to everyone who wants it?

[phenolred]

I've gotten bitten by the Caylee Anthony case so I'm sorry if I'm not around as much as I normally am...

Does anyone know which mod frequents the MJD board the most so I can email him/her about the entertainment co. info I found? Or can I just PM it to everyone who wants it?

Ask Christine

[phenolred]

LOL

Well lets just say it involved my sisters wedding reception and large sums of alcohol.....and a bridesmaids dress LOL :eek::eek::eek:

This is why Im not a drinker normally....Last time I did I fell in my own living room in Heels and broke my hand !!!! that was 2 yrs ago thanksgiving LOL....Im NOT a regular drinker or things like this happen LOL
oh you missed my dress in the panties story....but alas at least I was wearing panties, at my first wedding, my ex sister in law was dancing away on the dance floor (in a dress) and then she jumped up on her husbands hips wrapping her legs around his waist, well when she jumped DOWN her dress was hiked up around HER WAIST, and she was wearing flesh colored pantyhose with NO PANTIES, and was still boogy-ing on down totally unware........
with her goods shinying in the disco ball for all to see until someone helped out......

Gosh why do I HAVE so many PANTY STORIES......................

[dee10134]

Okay, I don't think the entertainment company has anything to to with OUR KTL. I found another K. Lipsey that's a singer/songwriter/producer that was quite possibly the Kelly Lipsey that I found as part owner of the entertainment company.

[ArizonaGiGi]

I just talked to Joel, the guy who worked at the car lot where MJD was seen arguing with LDJ and Alonzo the day she went out the car window.

He was very nice and said he had seen the guy and the car around town. He knew the guy as Dollar Bill. He didn't know either of the girls. He said from what he remembers the car followed her. Dollar Bill and LDJ argued with MJD and made her get in the car. A caddy. He was thinking it was a white caddy but couldn't remember the color. He said that detectives came by twice to talk to him trying to solve the case.

He said he had a teenage daughter at the time and was effected by the case alot. My phone call brought up memories and he told me that he moved to a different area to sell cars because he had seen so much bad going on in that area. He asked me to let him know when we find out who she is and to call if we had any more questions. He said that the police report would have more information than he could remember 9 years later.

If I remember anything else he said I will add it.
He did say that it was common for the pimps to bring the girls in from out of state.

[phenolred]

awesome very interesting information. Was he able to tell old old MJD looked to him? Was this a SCREAMING type argument, he maybe thats wher she got the fat lip and the brusie below her tattoo.

[ArizonaGiGi]

awesome very interesting information. Was he able to tell old old MJD looked to him? Was this a SCREAMING type argument, he maybe thats wher she got the fat lip and the brusie below her tattoo.

He didn't say. I think the only things that I learned was that it WAS Alonzo/Dollar Bill that she was arguing with. You all may have already known that, but I didn't.
Joel, the car guy, said it had been along time and that he felt like the information on his police report would be more accurate than his memory.

[fmw63]

Great work Gigi! :clap::clap:

[dee10134]

Excellent job!!! :) At least we now have confirmation that it WAS Alonzo and MJD arguing at the car lot!

[dee10134]

ABC is contacting witnesses!!!! :) :) :)

I contacted Shaine today to ask about the bungee cord and this is our conversation:

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: <dee10134>
Date: 14 Aug 2008, 09:08

Hi again Shaine,

We had a quick question for you regarding Jane Doe. Hopefully, you don't mind.

We got the accident scene photos from the police and they show a frayed red and white bungee cord (missing the hooks) near the location her body was found.

Do you recall seeing such a bungee cord when you stopped to help? Did it appear that she was tied up in it or did it appear that maybe she landed on it when she came out of their vehicle?

Thanks again for your help,
XXXXX

------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <Shaine>
Date: Aug 14, 2008 11:24 AM

I have no recollection of it at all. it's probably highway debris.

BTW, a producer from ABC has contacted me about the incident. I'm not sure exactly what they have in mind yet.

Did you follow-up on my ID from the possibilities you sent me?

Shaine

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ETA: I asked him to keep us in the loop with the ABC thing and let us know how it all pans out and thanked him 1000 times over for all of his help!

[Lucy's mom]

Thank you Arizona GiGi for the information. Making her get into the car as we obviously knew contradicts MJD wanting to go to Miami with them. This also