Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #16

[Onescout]

I assure you if BC called anyone else besides JA he would have put it in his affidavit!
He would love credit for trying to find his missing wife.

Also did anyone see him out ,driving around with the kids in tow, looking for her as he claimed he did?

[raisincharlie]

I assure you if BC called anyone else besides JA he would have put it in his affidavit!
He would love credit for trying to find his missing wife.

Bingo - he was too busy trying to hide things instead of looking for Nancy I think.

[momto3kids]

See, I'd like to know the same thing, musical cars between driveway and garage that morning?

Wonder if the neighbors know? :waitasec:

Did LE ONLY check his car? Did they check HER car?:confused:

Why was the license plate 1/2 off one day, and back tightened all up snug as a bug the next?:rolleyes:

Sumpin' is hinky, IMO.

JMHO
fran

Who owns the SUV is my question?

[Star12]

I kind of think the opposite about the car locations Star. I think the junk side was closest to the house and the farthest part was where Brad boy parked his beemie. I only think that because in every photo I have seen with 1 vehicle in the drive - whether its the beemie or the X5 -it is always parked on the side nearest the house which would leave the other half free for access.

Of course, I don't have the floorplan of the house, but it's possible that the door to the house would lead into a laundry area which would be on the right side, then. Which actually makes plenty of sense to me now. Thanks, Bubba

[Onescout]

See, I'd like to know the same thing, musical cars between driveway and garage that morning?

Wonder if the neighbors know? :waitasec:

Did LE ONLY check his car? Did they check HER car?:confused:

Why was the license plate 1/2 off one day, and back tightened all up snug as a bug the next?:rolleyes:

Sumpin' is hinky, IMO.

JMHO
fran

Ewww, I taut I taw a puddy tat......

[fran]

Fran, if you follow the link you'll see that it is Ms. Duncan's blog.

ETA: Art2mis, the poster of the comment, is Ms. Duncan.

I think I was aware of that, but I didn't realize that was Ms. Duncan saying it. I thought it was a random participant. But, IMO, it doesn't matter. You see, as far as I am concerned, I'm speaking strictly of MY OPINION, IF she got that from Brad, I don't believe it. I would have to have separate confirmation.

Sorry, I don't mean to be *(*(*(*( about this point. But I saw Brad's affidavit and I think 1/2 of it was a fairy tale, only in his mind.

I've seen other NOT suspects speak the same way.

been there done that.:rolleyes:

JMHO
fran

[raisincharlie]

Of course, I don't have the floorplan of the house, but it's possible that the door to the house would lead into a laundry area which would be on the right side, then. Which actually makes plenty of sense to me now. Thanks, Bubba

ROFLMAO ! :blowkiss:

[reddress58]

I kind of think the opposite about the car locations Star. I think the junk side was closest to the house and the farthest part was where Brad boy parked his beemie. I only think that because in every photo I have seen with 1 vehicle in the drive - whether its the beemie or the X5 -it is always parked on the side nearest the house which would leave the other half free for access.
Was thinking the same thing, RC. Now we've got to figure how he got her car in the drive IF the garage was the murder scene.

[momto3kids]

Bingo - he was too busy trying to hide things instead of looking for Nancy I think.

Believe me he has made a few mistakes along the way..just beginning to catch up with him.

Remember lies will catch up with you, especially when you can't remember who you told what too. :waitasec:

Just wait it is all beginning to slowly churn.

[raisincharlie]

Who owns the SUV is my question?

I still haven't found that bloody buggar in the tax records yet. May have to call in a favor or two to find out.

[jumpstreet]

Also did anyone see him out ,driving around with the kids in tow, looking for her as he claimed he did?

I recall he mentioned (in affidavit I think) checking in with Lifetime Fitness (health club) front desk to see if she had been there. Surely the folks at the front desk could corroborate (or refute) that point.

[reddress58]

Also did anyone see him out ,driving around with the kids in tow, looking for her as he claimed he did?
I acutally believe he went through the motions....only because of his reference to asking the desk clerk at Lifetime Fitness if Nancy had checked in. That can EASILY be confirmed.

[raisincharlie]

Was thinking the same thing, RC. Now we've got to figure how he got her car in the drive IF the garage was the murder scene.

That might not be hard to do depending on TOD. Darkness versus dawn.

[Onescout]

I recall he mentioned (in affidavit I think) checking in with Lifetime Fitness (health club) front desk to see if she had been there. Surely the folks at the front desk could corroborate (or refute) that point.

Just curious , can you rent a locker at Lifetime Fitness?

[momto3kids]

I still haven't found that bloody buggar in the tax records yet. May have to call in a favor or two to find out.

BINGO...who is the owner? Wake Tax dept doesn't have their records messed up.

#1 Flag --Purse
#2 Flag--SUV

and the list continues

[reddress58]

See, I'd like to know the same thing, musical cars between driveway and garage that morning?

Wonder if the neighbors know? :waitasec:

Did LE ONLY check his car? Did they check HER car?:confused:

Why was the license plate 1/2 off one day, and back tightened all up snug as a bug the next?:rolleyes:

Sumpin' is hinky, IMO.

JMHO
fran
Yo, Fran?. Yoo hoo.....Please tell me which two pictures show the different states of license plate position. You're sneakin one in on us, girl.

[fran]

You got me FRAN, hook and all.
Shortly school begins and these parents are going to talk, compare notes.....I believe some valuable information will begin to circulate.

Oh milady, IMO, you found YOUR HOOK all by yourself. And it must be a doozy! ;)

JMHO
fran

PS....OH GOODY! Maybe you could aimlessly wander outside the school chatting it up and {oh my!} just so happen to {cough} mention the 'guy who killed his wife.' :eek:......Ahhh....ALLEGEDLY :rolleyes:

[reddress58]

Also did anyone see him out ,driving around with the kids in tow, looking for her as he claimed he did?
Not that we know of, One.

[momto3kids]

I acutally believe he went through the motions....only because of his reference to asking the desk clerk at Lifetime Fitness if Nancy had checked in. That can EASILY be confirmed.

Do you know anyone who works there?

[raisincharlie]

Just curious , can you rent a locker at Lifetime Fitness?

I have wondered if Lifetime Fitness might have been the "undisclosed location".

Someone posted you can use a locker while you are there but there is not one assigned for continuous use.

[reddress58]

Just curious , can you rent a locker at Lifetime Fitness?
No you cannot.

[momto3kids]

Oh milady, IMO, you found YOUR HOOK all by yourself. And it must be a doozy! ;)

JMHO
fran

PS....OH GOODY! Maybe you could aimlessly wander outside the school chatting it up and {oh my!} just so happen to {cough} mention the 'guy who killed his wife.' :eek:......Ahhh....ALLEGEDLY :rolleyes:

At a school today...yup sure was. Just have to ask what they are thinking and it begins to really open your eyes when they speak their thoughts.

[Onescout]

No you cannot.

Okay, then going there to stash something in a locker just blew the dust....hmmm, then why did he choose that place to look and not the obvious Java Jive (NC's pre or post running hang out)....maybe because folks know him at Lifetime Fitness and could confirm his story?

Ohh look at the time, bed time for bonzo's around here, talk at ya later!

[reddress58]

I have wondered if Lifetime Fitness might have been the "undisclosed location".

Someone posted you can use a locker while you are there but there is not one assigned for continuous use.
I think you can pretty much discount Lifetime Fitness in this equation. I think he used it as part of his alibi. Would be no reason to store anything in a locker.

[momto3kids]

I think you can pretty much discount Lifetime Fitness in this equation. I think he used it as part of his alibi. Would be no reason to store anything in a locker.

Is there anywhere he can stash something he wants rid of at Lifetime?

[raisincharlie]

No you cannot.

Are you aware of any surveillance cameras at Lifetime - inside or outside by any chance ?

[reddress58]

Okay, then going there to stash something in a locker just blew the dust....hmmm, then why did he choose that place to look and not the obvious Java Jive (NC's pre or post running hang out)....maybe because folks know him at Lifetime Fitness and could confirm his story?

Ohh look at the time, bed time for bonzo's around here, talk at ya later!
Java Jive is a REALLY small venue. You can drive by the front door or stick your head in and see all inside. Lifetime cannot be accessed unless you show ID at the front desk. I can see where he'd mention that in his affidavit and not the other. I'm putting my head in his...not trying to pick a side here. But when you live in the same neighorhood, run the same route, are a member of the same gym, are an athlete, you can see things somewhat along the same lines.

[reddress58]

Are you aware of any surveillance cameras at Lifetime - inside or outside by any chance ?
Not that I know of.

[raisincharlie]

I think you can pretty much discount Lifetime Fitness in this equation. I think he used it as part of his alibi. Would be no reason to store anything in a locker.

No, but Lifetime, if they have surveillance camera's may want a warrant to view thier tapes to see if he really came in - privacy for clients might dictate LE has to have a warrant to view the tapes if they exist.

Not quite ready to rule out Lifetime as somewhere LE went.

[momto3kids]

I think you can pretty much discount Lifetime Fitness in this equation. I think he used it as part of his alibi. Would be no reason to store anything in a locker.

OK..think about this if he can't have a locker there to hide something.

Why would he go there at all searching for her?
He wasn't looking for her car in the parking lot.
So he goes to the desk and say NC is missing have you seen her?
Phone call would have answered that question.
I seriously doubt he would know what Carey drives, no one had met her if I understand this correctly.

What was the purpose of going there at all?

[reddress58]

Is there anywhere he can stash something he wants rid of at Lifetime?
Sure, you can put something in a locker. But if you don't retrieve it by the end of the day, it will be opened.

[fran]

Wonder if they have access to dumpsters?:confused:

fran

[raisincharlie]

Wonder if they have access to dumpsters?:confused:

fran

Probably, isn't there a deli or something like that at Lifetime ?

[momto3kids]

I still can't see why he would go to Lifetime...not when he can call.

[momto3kids]

Nite all!

[FullDisclosure]

Probably, isn't there a deli or something like that at Lifetime ?

Yep. They definitely have a deli and maybe another restaurant.

[fran]

Yep. They definitely have a deli and maybe another restaurant.

So some of those people that say they're 'going to the gym' may be going there for lunch?

thanks,
fran

[reddress58]

OK..think about this if he can't have a locker there to hide something.

Why would he go there at all searching for her?
He wasn't looking for her car in the parking lot.
So he goes to the desk and say NC is missing have you seen her?
Phone call would have answered that question.
I seriously doubt he would know what Carey drives, no one had met her if I understand this correctly.

What was the purpose of going there at all?
Hey, I'm only answering questions....not disputing your intuition.

[FlowerChild]

FlowerChild

It's a pleasure to see you on the Nancy Cooper forum. I enjoy reading your posts and know that you will add much to the conversation.

I truly don't mind that you and I, for the time being, are on opposite sides of thinking, with regard to this case. IMO, it'll just be a matter of time before you see the REAL and BIG picture. As of now, there's a LOT of smoke and mirrors being thrown around. It's just a matter of time before LE and all of the world see through the fog.

Believe me, at this point and time, the NOT suspect Brad Cooper could truly use a knight in shining armour such as you. But don't expect any 'thank you's' from him, even IF he could. Because, IMO, he'd be too busy taking credit for your work behind your back.;)

Look forward to some lively dialogue.

:)

JMHO
fran
Hey Fran:seeya:

Not defending BC, just trying to slow down and be objective about everything.

Having been married to a "spender" (ex) I can tell you that it's HELL on the spouse that is trying to get the bills paid, it's kinda like being married to an alcoholic, they find ways to get money and spend money you don't have. About a year before I left him, I cut off my ex's access to everything, credit cards, bank account - the whole works and I gave him an allowance every week (just like BC and Nancy) and he STILL managed to beg borrow or steal and KEPT SPENDING. He'd open NEW ACCOUNTS to spend. Some spenders don't want to modify THEIR lifestyle or spending even one little bit and they tell all their buddies you are the Queen beotch and because of YOU they NEVER have any money - for lunch, for happy hour, for golf, for gas - whatever and they mooch off everyone they can. My ex "poor me'd" to his family, my family, everyone we knew and when we went anywhere together he was Mr Big Spender with everyone - he'd buy rounds of drinks and grab the tab - leaving ME to pay a HUGE bill we couldn't afford. He even almost bought A NEW CAR once that I had to return. If I gave ex money to go and pay a bill or left him a check to mail he would somehow "forget" to pay it - or pay only PART of it and spend the money on something he wanted instead...that's how the utilities get shut off - they grab the bill, hide it and then whammo, one day you have no phone, or water or whatever...and no MONEY to pay the bill either. The Nancy story about their water being shut off made me see this in a different way - you get 3 MONTHS or MORE to pay a utility bill before they shut off service - Nancy was at home and got the bills - she would have KNOWN the service was going to get cut-off - I betcha Brad had NO IDEA and he may have even given Nancy the CASH to go pay it ...more than once. I did.

All I can say is that I see exactly what Nancy appeared to be doing because I have been on the other side of a similar marriage. And the one with the checkbook is ALWAYS made out to be the "bad one" treating the other "badly" and depriving them of things they "need". And they never do ONE THING to cut back, their spending goes on as if there is no budget. I couldn't even send my ex to the grocery store alone because we'd end up with stuff we didn't need and little actual FOOD. I took back ridiculous Christmas gifts he gave me that we couldn't afford - one year (20 years ago) $1500 worth - when I could barely make the mortgage payment!

I see a LOT of my ex in Nancy - right down to the the group of friends (couples too) ready to run to her aid because Brad was such a mean and cruel husband, the friends ready to make excuses for their friend and give her money and even HIDE things she bought for her. I know the drill, she'd tell Brad that "Susie" GAVE her the item or that she bought it a garage sale or she was just "borrowing" it. It's all BS -and the friends never see it until they are on the receiving end of one of the spenders "stunts" and get stuck with a big bill for something that isn't ever gonna get paid back.... for the 3rd or 4th time. The worse Nancy made Brad look, the more her friends pitied her and supported her and PAID FOR HER. It had only been what, 6 mos on the budget? Most people don't need friends THAT badly that they are willing to PAY them long-term.

The marriage and their finances were in a shambles. They were toughing out a relationship that to most people appeared to be failing both personally and financially. They were "splitting up" things - right down to their friends - and even in the best of divorces that "taking sides" can get ugly - and friends get caught up in defending their choice in the battle - even if it isn't necessary. I see Nancy had some very loyal friends, and she was obviously an outgoing, popular woman who made friends easily and shared a LOT of her personal information and feelings with her friends. Of COURSE they are going to remain loyal now that Nancy is gone, they feel they HAVE TO. They MUST defend her and of course they will attack Brad, they were enlisted by Nancy to view him as the enemy in the marriage. I think they are wonderful friends, I do not however, think they know the complete TRUTH and frankly, I don't think they wanted to know Brad at all (no fraternizing with the ENEMY!).

Since WE are NOT enlisted on either side - but should be on the side of JUSTICE - we should attempt to see BOTH sides and sleuth out Nancy's history and behaviors as well as Brads. A forensic profile of Nancy is just as important as a perpetrator profile on Brad. We figured out what SP was about and what he probably did by knowing Laci. We could learn a LOT about how and why and when and where by knowing NANCY. What Brad did (and how) might have depended on NANCY herself - how she would have reacted. This was NOT a pregnant, small, powderpuff fluff of a girl here, Nancy was muscled, tall, very fit, and worked out regularly - and she was a MOM - she had TWO beautiful reasons to FIGHT for her life. I can't see Brad overpowering Nancy without a fight unless he shot her in the head or stabbed her in the heart or cut her throat while she slept. If Nancy was not asleep, she would have fought like a wild woman and would NOT have been easy to subdue. That is important - or at least it will be once we find out HOW Nancy died.

Anyway, I am just trying to give an alternative perspective - I know I got really really mad at my ex over money so many times - I can see BC getting infuriated enough to snap. If he did, they'll prove it. If not, he deserves at least the assumption of innocence until we know more facts.

My Opinion

[fran]

Java Jive is a REALLY small venue. You can drive by the front door or stick your head in and see all inside. Lifetime cannot be accessed unless you show ID at the front desk. I can see where he'd mention that in his affidavit and not the other. I'm putting my head in his...not trying to pick a side here. But when you live in the same neighorhood, run the same route, are a member of the same gym, are an athlete, you can see things somewhat along the same lines.

That actually would make sense that he MAY have just driven by Java Jive if he could just peer in as he drove by. After all, he had the two little ones with him so he couldn't be jumping out of the car everywhere and leave them alone. It's so difficult getting little ones in and out of the car and takes forever.

fran

[FullDisclosure]

So some of those people that say they're 'going to the gym' may be going there for lunch?

thanks,
fran

http://www.lifetimefitness.com/


yep. or to get a massage or have their hair done! Lifetime is quite the swanky gym :)

[news247]

OK..think about this if he can't have a locker there to hide something.

Why would he go there at all searching for her?
He wasn't looking for her car in the parking lot.
So he goes to the desk and say NC is missing have you seen her?
Phone call would have answered that question.
I seriously doubt he would know what Carey drives, no one had met her if I understand this correctly.

What was the purpose of going there at all?



Can't remember the exact wording, but it's stated in his affidavit (I think), that he drove to Carey's condo, but didn't see her car (he didn't know her address).

And then, I think, that the SHook lady today, said that "some" of Nancy's friends met Carey for the first time on that Saturday.

Either some already knew her, or they all got close awfully fast, OR there is a different "carrie" also (spelling is different, so it "could" be a different carrie, i guess) - b/c several of them have had a separate blogspot set to "private" and a "carrie" has been a member all along:

http://www.blogger.com/profile/17580012246835564294

from this link, you cannot read the postings, but you can see the member names of the blogspot, "Friends of Nancy Cooper" - many of these same people gave affidavits for the custody issue.

Link doesn't mean anything of course, since we can't read the postings....I just found it interesting that many didn't know carey, didn't know her phone number, yet she (IF it is the same one) has been included, from the beginning, in a blog set to "private" with Nancy's other friends.

[jumpstreet]

Anyway, I am just trying to give an alternative perspective - I know I got really really mad at my ex over money so many times - I can see BC getting infuriated enough to snap. If he did, they'll prove it. If not, he deserves at least the assumption of innocence until we know more facts.

My Opinion

I added a post attempting to summarize a couple of theories on the "Theories (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171)" thread. Comments welcome.

[reddress58]

Hey Fran:seeya:

Not defending BC, just trying to slow down and be objective about everything.

Having been married to a "spender" (ex) I can tell you that it's HELL on the spouse that is trying to get the bills paid, it's kinda like being married to an alcoholic, they find ways to get money and spend money you don't have. About a year before I left him, I cut off my ex's access to everything, credit cards, bank account - the whole works and I gave him an allowance every week (just like BC and Nancy) and he STILL managed to beg borrow or steal and KEPT SPENDING. He'd open NEW ACCOUNTS to spend. Some spenders don't want to modify THEIR lifestyle or spending even one little bit and they tell all their buddies you are the Queen beotch and because of YOU they NEVER have any money - for lunch, for happy hour, for golf, for gas - whatever and they mooch off everyone they can. My ex "poor me'd" to his family, my family, everyone we knew and when we went anywhere together he was Mr Big Spender with everyone - he'd buy rounds of drinks and grab the tab - leaving ME to pay a HUGE bill we couldn't afford. He even almost bought A NEW CAR once that I had to return. If I gave ex money to go and pay a bill or left him a check to mail he would somehow "forget" to pay it - or pay only PART of it and spend the money on something he wanted instead...that's how the utilities get shut off - they grab the bill, hide it and then whammo, one day you have no phone, or water or whatever...and no MONEY to pay the bill either. The Nancy story about their water being shut off made me see this in a different way - you get 3 MONTHS or MORE to pay a utility bill before they shut off service - Nancy was at home and got the bills - she would have KNOWN the service was going to get cut-off - I betcha Brad had NO IDEA and he may have even given Nancy the CASH to go pay it ...more than once. I did.

All I can say is that I see exactly what Nancy appeared to be doing because I have been on the other side of a similar marriage. And the one with the checkbook is ALWAYS made out to be the "bad one" treating the other "badly" and depriving them of things they "need". And they never do ONE THING to cut back, their spending goes on as if there is no budget. I couldn't even send my ex to the grocery store alone because we'd end up with stuff we didn't need and little actual FOOD. I took back ridiculous Christmas gifts he gave me that we couldn't afford - one year (20 years ago) $1500 worth - when I could barely make the mortgage payment!

I see a LOT of my ex in Nancy - right down to the the group of friends (couples too) ready to run to her aid because Brad was such a mean and cruel husband, the friends ready to make excuses for their friend and give her money and even HIDE things she bought for her. I know the drill, she'd tell Brad that "Susie" GAVE her the item or that she bought it a garage sale or she was just "borrowing" it. It's all BS -and the friends never see it until they are on the receiving end of one of the spenders "stunts" and get stuck with a big bill for something that isn't ever gonna get paid back.... for the 3rd or 4th time. The worse Nancy made Brad look, the more her friends pitied her and supported her and PAID FOR HER. It had only been what, 6 mos on the budget? Most people don't need friends THAT badly that they are willing to PAY them long-term.

The marriage and their finances were in a shambles. They were toughing out a relationship that to most people appeared to be failing both personally and financially. They were "splitting up" things - right down to their friends - and even in the best of divorces that "taking sides" can get ugly - and friends get caught up in defending their choice in the battle - even if it isn't necessary. I see Nancy had some very loyal friends, and she was obviously an outgoing, popular woman who made friends easily and shared a LOT of her personal information and feelings with her friends. Of COURSE they are going to remain loyal now that Nancy is gone, they feel they HAVE TO. They MUST defend her and of course they will attack Brad, they were enlisted by Nancy to view him as the enemy in the marriage. I think they are wonderful friends, I do not however, think they know the complete TRUTH and frankly, I don't think they wanted to know Brad at all (no fraternizing with the ENEMY!).

Since WE are NOT enlisted on either side - but should be on the side of JUSTICE - we should attempt to see BOTH sides and sleuth out Nancy's history and behaviors as well as Brads. A forensic profile of Nancy is just as important as a perpetrator profile on Brad. We figured out what SP was about and what he probably did by knowing Laci. We could learn a LOT about how and why and when and where by knowing NANCY. What Brad did (and how) might have depended on NANCY herself - how she would have reacted. This was NOT a pregnant, small, powderpuff fluff of a girl here, Nancy was muscled, tall, very fit, and worked out regularly - and she was a MOM - she had TWO beautiful reasons to FIGHT for her life. I can't see Brad overpowering Nancy without a fight unless he shot her in the head or stabbed her in the heart or cut her throat while she slept. If Nancy was not asleep, she would have fought like a wild woman and would NOT have been easy to subdue. That is important - or at least it will be once we find out HOW Nancy died.

Anyway, I am just trying to give an alternative perspective - I know I got really really mad at my ex over money so many times - I can see BC getting infuriated enough to snap. If he did, they'll prove it. If not, he deserves at least the assumption of innocence until we know more facts.

My Opinion
It's always about the money. Hmmmmm. Heard that somewhere before. :-)

Your posts are extremely insightful, FlowerChid; and your writing syle is beautiful, too. I do hope you are putting your talent to work somewhere in this world besides this website.

[reddress58]

So some of those people that say they're 'going to the gym' may be going there for lunch?

thanks,
fran
Hmm, Fran. Do ya know somepin yur not tellin us???

[news247]

This has already been posted most likely - but someone (can't remember who, sorry.....) posted a link a few days ago to duncan's blog - she wrote a couple of neat posts, one a "personal statement" - and one about Katie (Gabriella) - but the personal statement one is really interesting, I think.

http://art2mis.blogspot.com/

[Wyn]

http://www.lifetimefitness.com/


yep. or to get a massage or have their hair done! Lifetime is quite the swanky gym :)

Nancy didn't get her hair done there.

[Anderson]

Flowerchild, you do make some great points. It may be true that Nancy was spending too much. However, I find it so odd that the information on Nancy's spending habits was released on the same day as her memorial in Canada. You may remember that two stories were in the news that day: the memorial service and "Brad fights back." I understand that he had to prepare for the custody hearing, but why not the day before or after, regardless of the outcome. This is a question of respect. As many of you, I also find it odd that he did not attend at least one memorial service.

I believe that some of the information in the affadavits (can't remember exactly where) point to Brad changing his behaviour a couple of months before Nancy was killed. He tried to become more involved with the kids etc. Of course I don't know if this is the case. However, if it was, then that suggests that he may have been planning something.

He also just finished his MBA at the same time that he was supposed to have threatened to commit suicide. He should be flying at that time. What was standing in his way? He had just finished a major accomplishment. He does say that he did not threaten to commit suicide, but it happened at Nancy's parents house and they seem to believe it. According to the media, this is why the parents wanted him to have a psychological assessment. This also seems to be a key reason that the parents were able to obtain temporary custody of the children.

Just my opinion!

[reddress58]

Flowerchild, you do make some great points. It may be true that Nancy was spending too much. However, I find it so odd that the information on Nancy's spending habits was released on the same day as her memorial in Canada. You may remember that two stories were in the news that day: the memorial service and "Brad fights back." I understand that he had to prepare for the custody hearing, but why not the day before or after, regardless of the outcome. This is a question of respect. As many of you, I also find it odd that he did not attend at least one memorial service.

I believe that some of the information in the affadavits (can't remember exactly where) point to Brad changing his behaviour a couple of months before Nancy was killed. He tried to become more involved with the kids etc. Of course I don't know if this is the case. However, if it was, then that suggests that he may have been planning something.

He also just finished his MBA at the same time that he was supposed to have threatened to commit suicide. He should be flying at that time. What was standing in his way? He had just finished a major accomplishment. He does say that he did not threaten to commit suicide, but it happened at Nancy's parents house and they seem to believe it. According to the media, this is why the parents wanted him to have a psychological assessment. This also seems to be a key reason that the parents were able to obtain temporary custody of the children.

Just my opinion!
You bring up good points here, Anderson. These are questions we all would like answers to!! Especially the "suicide" one. Of all the stuff I've read about Brad, including profiling of his narcissistic personality, suicide (or threats of) does not fit the bill. Thanks for your thoughts.

[fran]

Excellent post FlowerChild!........:clap:

Good debate for the side of the husband, Brad Cooper. I guess one might agree with you if they were to believe what the husband says. Personally, I don't believe 1/2 of it. That's just me.

This man said he loved his wife. He sure has a funny way of showing it. She was just discovered murdered and he starts telling the world everything that HE, perceived was Nancy. AND, it wasn't pretty.

I would like to know of ONE person, who was in love with their spouse, SO, or even an acquaintance, and would say such things about them, ever! IF they were murdered, not to mention just days after their lifeless body was picked up from a lonely spot on the side of the road.

All of your perception of this wife, mother, daughter, murder victim, is based on HIS, the husband's statements. Gee, they can't be refuted because the victim is dead. The person he so easily spoke ill of, was murdered.

I think at the end of the day, when reviewing the 'friend's' of Nancy affidavits, one of the, probably most accurate, would be the one that described the note Nancy found in her husband's handwriting.

Life insurance
Will
Bank account
Blue book (kelly)

He took Nancy's name off the bank accounts.
Nancy told a friend she'd made out a will, but low and behold, Brad said she didn't.
I'm interested in the life insurance, that info hasn't surfaced
(Kelly) blue book, well Nancy won't be needing that car any longer.

This particular friend, at the time, offered to help Nancy go to her house and pick up her things and she could stay with them. She was afraid for Nancy's life.

I don't recall if this was the same friend who's affidavit stated Nancy was afraid, physically of Brad. This same friend said Nancy slept in the room with the girls, behind a locked door, in her clothes, with the keys to the car in her pocket for a possible quick get away.

One might not believe this friend, except for the FACT that Nancy did in FACT end up DEAD, MURDERED.

THAT in itself makes this friend's statements have merit, IMO.

No, it wasn't a random act of violence.

It was an isolated incident.

IMO, I believe I KNOW who the perp is.

There is NO COINCIDENCE when it comes to MURDER. This young woman did NOT COINCIDENTALLY meet a stranger who murdered her. NO, IMO, the MURDERER came from within.

JMHO
fran

PS.....Before anyone says, 'why didn't she just leave him if she was afraid of him?'

Remember, JUST when Brad found out that the wife and children he'd told to leave and go back home to Canada and he didn't care if he'd never see them again, he suddenly changed his mind when he found out he would have to pay MONEY.

Nancy was a hostage in the U.S.A., controlled by a man who took and hid the children's passports to insure Nancy didn't, couldn't leave. He did know her so well, didn't he? :(

PPS.......Remember, always question what went on behind that closed door. "No one knows what goes on in this family, but you and me." That's a direct quote from ......................an abuser...................said just before he added, "Remember 'til death do us part."

That was said before he tried to make the second quote part of their story come true.....fortunately, he failed.....fran

[fran]

Hmm, Fran. Do ya know somepin yur not tellin us???

Nope! ;)

I was just surprised they have 'food' at a gym. I thought gyms were to take OFF the lbs, not put them on.:waitasec:

Just sayin'
fran

[Fairy1]

Flowerchild - LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your posts - always. And I sincerely appreciate and respect your points of view. However, I would like to counter your position on the high spending "ex." I too had an ex who was spending too much. However, I was the one who paid the bills and still, I had no idea what was happening. He was gambling and drinking - but during his working hours. I had NO IDEA. He was a chameleon - being who he needed to be at any given moment. He was extremely intelligent, charming and funny. Everyone loved him. In the end, we lost everything. Ours was not an abusive relationship and it's been many years since we divorced. But following this case, I have been thinking....I do think he could have killed me without a second thought. As it is, he walked away from his own children -who've not heard from him in years. You never know...

[FlowerChild]

Flowerchild, you do make some great points. It may be true that Nancy was spending too much. However, I find it so odd that the information on Nancy's spending habits was released on the same day as her memorial in Canada. You may remember that two stories were in the news that day: the memorial service and "Brad fights back." I understand that he had to prepare for the custody hearing, but why not the day before or after, regardless of the outcome. This is a question of respect. As many of you, I also find it odd that he did not attend at least one memorial service.

I believe that some of the information in the affadavits (can't remember exactly where) point to Brad changing his behaviour a couple of months before Nancy was killed. He tried to become more involved with the kids etc. Of course I don't know if this is the case. However, if it was, then that suggests that he may have been planning something.

He also just finished his MBA at the same time that he was supposed to have threatened to commit suicide. He should be flying at that time. What was standing in his way? He had just finished a major accomplishment. He does say that he did not threaten to commit suicide, but it happened at Nancy's parents house and they seem to believe it. According to the media, this is why the parents wanted him to have a psychological assessment. This also seems to be a key reason that the parents were able to obtain temporary custody of the children.

Just my opinion!
He's an introvert and he is being looked at and pointed at everywhere he goes - he's a suspect, named as such or not, no wonder he won't go to a public memorial. Every breath he takes in public is analyzed for guilt...some people just cannot grieve in public - much less under such tremendous scrutiny. He has no job to go to and he is also denied the comfort of even SEEING his children. Would you rather he be more like SP, running around everywhere as if nothing is wrong? I am a private griever, I HATE making ANY public show of my grief and in fact I cannot grieve properly with other people around, even my closest loved ones. I immediately go into "consoling" mode if other people are around - I console THEM and swallow my own tears until I am alone. BC is not acting (IMO) inappropriately, he is just grieving privately..no silly string and no parties and no moving on with his life as if Nancy never existed.

As to the suicide attempt - what do his co-workers say? His fellow students in the MBA program? Perhaps he was upset at Nancy - perhaps over the divorce, money, finances and had a bad day where he was upset about EVERYTHING going wrong in his life? One bad day does not a psycho or dangerously depressed person make...especially when it's coming from people who are obviously desperate to get custody of Nancy's children from their father before any proof of his guilt has been offered.

They are ALL grieving and I am not going to condemn ANY of them for the way they are handling this situation right now. When we know more about the death of Nancy Cooper then perhaps THEN I will be prepared to pass judgment on their behavior.

My Opinion

[The Saint]

He's an introvert and he is being looked at and pointed at everywhere he goes - he's a suspect, named as such or not, no wonder he won't go to a public memorial. Every breath he takes in public is analyzed for guilt...some people just cannot grieve in public - much less under such tremendous scrutiny. He has no job to go to and he is also denied the comfort of even SEEING his children. Would you rather he be more like SP, running around everywhere as if nothing is wrong? I am a private griever, I HATE making ANY public show of my grief and in fact I cannot grieve properly with other people around, even my closest loved ones. I immediately go into "consoling" mode if other people are around - I console THEM and swallow my own tears until I am alone. BC is not acting (IMO) inappropriately, he is just grieving privately..no silly string and no parties and no moving on with his life as if Nancy never existed.

As to the suicide attempt - what do his co-workers say? His fellow students in the MBA program? Perhaps he was upset at Nancy - perhaps over the divorce, money, finances and had a bad day where he was upset about EVERYTHING going wrong in his life? One bad day does not a psycho or dangerously depressed person make...especially when it's coming from people who are obviously desperate to get custody of Nancy's children from their father before any proof of his guilt has been offered.

They are ALL grieving and I am not going to condemn ANY of them for the way they are handling this situation right now. When we know more about the death of Nancy Cooper then perhaps THEN I will be prepared to pass judgment on their behavior.

My Opinion

who said it was only ONE bad day?
he had also threatened suicide when he was a teenager.

brad does deny that he threatened suicide in his affidavit.
his parents made strange statements in their affidavits; brad's dad said his son had never been depressed or sad. brad's mother made some
statement that was incomprehensible about "no doctor." it was missing a few words, so it is hard to say exactly what she meant.

even though brad has just earned his MBA and should have been celebrating, the talk of suicide came during the christmas holidays which is a rough time for people who are depressed. he may have felt that nancy
was going to take away everything he had just earned in her divorce action.

[The Saint]

it doesn't matter how much money nancy did or did not spend. she didn't deserve to die for it.

there seems to be a lot of projection onto nancy of problems posters have had w/ their exes.

[Anderson]

He's an introvert and he is being looked at and pointed at everywhere he goes - he's a suspect, named as such or not, no wonder he won't go to a public memorial. Every breath he takes in public is analyzed for guilt...some people just cannot grieve in public - much less under such tremendous scrutiny. He has no job to go to and he is also denied the comfort of even SEEING his children. Would you rather he be more like SP, running around everywhere as if nothing is wrong? I am a private griever, I HATE making ANY public show of my grief and in fact I cannot grieve properly with other people around, even my closest loved ones. I immediately go into "consoling" mode if other people are around - I console THEM and swallow my own tears until I am alone. BC is not acting (IMO) inappropriately, he is just grieving privately..no silly string and no parties and no moving on with his life as if Nancy never existed.

As to the suicide attempt - what do his co-workers say? His fellow students in the MBA program? Perhaps he was upset at Nancy - perhaps over the divorce, money, finances and had a bad day where he was upset about EVERYTHING going wrong in his life? One bad day does not a psycho or dangerously depressed person make...especially when it's coming from people who are obviously desperate to get custody of Nancy's children from their father before any proof of his guilt has been offered.

They are ALL grieving and I am not going to condemn ANY of them for the way they are handling this situation right now. When we know more about the death of Nancy Cooper then perhaps THEN I will be prepared to pass judgment on their behavior.

My Opinion

Flowerchild, I do hear you. I accept that people have different ways of grieving. I also agree that it would be very awkward for him to appear in public. However, how could he release the affidavit on the SAME day that her family and friends mourned her? For me, this suggests that he did not respect her.

The reason that the suicide threat is important is because this may be another sign that he is an abuser. This could be a control mechanism. I don't think that he actually would commit suicide, but if he did threaten to do so, then it MAY suggest abuse. He may not have kept her from her friends (she sounds like a very strong spirit), but he does seem to have controlled her in other ways. As raisincharlie says, follow the money.

Here is a website that discusses the cycle of abuse, including a bit on abusers and their suicide threats:

"Threats — Abusers commonly use threats to keep their victims from leaving or to scare them into dropping charges. Your abuser may threaten to hurt or kill you, your children, other family members, or even pets. He may also threaten to commit suicide, file false charges against you, or report you to child services."

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects .htm

IMO

[CyberPro]

Nope! ;)

I was just surprised they have 'food' at a gym. I thought gyms were to take OFF the lbs, not put them on.:waitasec:

Just sayin'
fran

I am a member at Lifetime, but I have never partaken of any of their food. They also sell vitamines, food supplements, a little bit of workout stuff. They have a coffee bar there, and the food is "Healthful" stuff like smoothies, salads and everything has the nutritional info with it. I usually like to go late at night, after the cafe has closed. A few times I have been in there around suppertime and seen families eating in there, I get the impression that some folks spend a great deal of time at the facility, like all evening on more than one night a week. I could be wrong about that.

CyberPro

[FlowerChild]

Excellent post FlowerChild!........:clap:

Good debate for the side of the husband, Brad Cooper. I guess one might agree with you if they were to believe what the husband says. Personally, I don't believe 1/2 of it. That's just me.

This man said he loved his wife. He sure has a funny way of showing it. She was just discovered murdered and he starts telling the world everything that HE, perceived was Nancy. AND, it wasn't pretty.
Ever consider he might have been ANGRY at Nancy for getting killed and dying and he is left the #1 suspect?

I would like to know of ONE person, who was in love with their spouse, SO, or even an acquaintance, and would say such things about them, ever! IF they were murdered, not to mention just days after their lifeless body was picked up from a lonely spot on the side of the road.
They were in essence separated but living together. I am sure he cared for Nancy, but I am not sure there was much love left between them. I am not sure - even if he snapped and killed her, that BC wanted Nancy dead.

All of your perception of this wife, mother, daughter, murder victim, is based on HIS, the husband's statements. Gee, they can't be refuted because the victim is dead. The person he so easily spoke ill of, was murdered.
Actually I based most of my opinions about Nancy on the statements made by Nancy's friends, very little on what BC said. Her friends ALL said how she had no money and was unable to feed the girls - said she couldn't afford movie tickets and GIFTS for parties - and yet NOT ONE said she was making a superhuman effort to save money or spend less or get by with less. She did ONE painting job - one, and evidently that was a big deal for her in her friend's eyes, a huge sacrifice on her part. She still drove a nice car, her kids were in partial day-care and she was still going to Java Jive and the gym and evidently had no problem being out late or going OOT for weeks on vaca with the kids....without Brad

I think at the end of the day, when reviewing the 'friend's' of Nancy affidavits, one of the, probably most accurate, would be the one that described the note Nancy found in her husband's handwriting.
Which we have not seen and have no idea if it's true or something Nancy just said to gain sympathy or support. So he made a list - I make lots of lists, none of them having ANYTHING to do with murdering my husband, but out of context they might look really damning if he turned up dead - but without the actual note, (or even someone who can say the personally SAW said note) this is impossible to prove and irrelevant


He took Nancy's name off the bank accounts .
DO we have any corroboration on this? I know he got rid of credit cards but was Nancy really NOT on the bank account at all? I am going to check, but I think he would have to open a NEW account to have it alone (after a joint account) since otherwise Nancy would have had to agree, in writing. Or did she agree? One affidavit says nine months ago, another says Jan 2008 - when was this change made? I took my ex off of our Bank account and took away all credit cards too - and I didn't kill him.

Nancy told a friend she'd made out a will, but low and behold, Brad said she didn't.
Doesn't matter, if it was done or not. I assume if she didn't have one, he didn't either, not uncommon, their lawyer should know if one was prepared and signed. In most cases everything goes to the spouse - especially since Nancy had nothing separate from BC - and she cannot mandate custody for the kids so long as BC is alive and they are married - guardianship/custody only applies should the parents BOTH die

I'm interested in the life insurance, that info hasn't surfaced
She probably didn't have any, not a word so far from anyone about him having ANY insurance on Nancy

(Kelly) blue book, well Nancy won't be needing that car any longer.
We have no idea if this is true - or what it meant - maybe they were going to sell HIS car and get another motorcycle or get a cheaper car - it means nothing

This particular friend, at the time, offered to help Nancy go to her house and pick up her things and she could stay with them. She was afraid for Nancy's life.
I am sure Nancy wanted her friend to believe that - she was about to file for divorce and fight for the kids. Nancy wanted the support, but perhaps wasn't ready to leave BC yet.

I don't recall if this was the same friend who's affidavit stated Nancy was afraid, physically of Brad. This same friend said Nancy slept in the room with the girls, behind a locked door, in her clothes, with the keys to the car in her pocket for a possible quick get away.
Again, I am sure Nancy told her that

PS.....Before anyone says, 'why didn't she just leave him if she was afraid of him?'
Remember, JUST when Brad found out that the wife and children he'd told to leave and go back home to Canada and he didn't care if he'd never see them again, he suddenly changed his mind when he found out he would have to pay MONEY.
Wasn't Nancy just back from seeing her family with the girls? Why didn't she enlist their help then? Why go home again? She could have stayed AWAY with the girls WITH the protection of her family if she was so afraid

Nancy was a hostage in the U.S.A., controlled by a man who took and hid the children's passports to insure Nancy didn't, couldn't leave. He did know her so well, didn't he? :(
DO we KNOW he "hid" the passports? He obviously produced them for her parents - where were they? Did the police see the passports? Were they in Nancy's purse? In her car? Again, more information uncorroborated. And Nancy could leave, she could have moved very close to Canada - all she couldn't do without her daughter's passports was go to Canada with her children. Leaving does NOT equate to divorce Nancy could have left at ANY TIME and still gotten a good settlement in the divorce. She had family and a half dozen friends that would have HELPED Nancy leave Brad in a heartbeat - she was hardly "trapped"

fran

My responses in RED above

I get that Nancy was having a tough time in her marriage. That does not make ANYTHING or EVERYTHING her friends and family say true. She was their dear friend, daughter sister etc, of COURSE they are going to be outraged on her behalf and angry and wanting answers. If Brad is guilty he will pay - LE has been on him since Nancy went missing. NOTHING any of Nancy's family and friends say means anything without evidence that corroborates it - people cannot go to prison and have their children taken from them just because they are hated or disliked. LE is doing their job - BC is sitting dead center in the bullseye and I cannot imagine he will NOT be indicted if there is even a tiny shred of evidence that he killed Nancy. Then the task of proving his guilt really begins - and if you are right about him they WILL prove it easily and he will rot in prison or face the needle soon enough

My Opinion

[MoonFlwr]

Excellent post FlowerChild!........:clap:

Good debate for the side of the husband, Brad Cooper. I guess one might agree with you if they were to believe what the husband says. Personally, I don't believe 1/2 of it. That's just me.

This man said he loved his wife. He sure has a funny way of showing it. She was just discovered murdered and he starts telling the world everything that HE, perceived was Nancy. AND, it wasn't pretty.



(snipped to comment on a particular point)

In all fairness, Brad's response was not unprovoked! The possibility of losing his children was staring him in the face...was he supposed to just remain quiet against the allegations in the affadavit's?

[FlowerChild]

it doesn't matter how much money nancy did or did not spend. she didn't deserve to die for it.

there seems to be a lot of projection onto nancy of problems posters have had w/ their exes.
And right now we have NO PROOF she did die for it. If she did, Brad will pay, pretty simple.The operative word until we at least get TOD, COD and the autopsy... AT LEAST - is IF

And I am NOT projecting my past ex problems onto this case, I am merely stating that the things going on in the words of Nancy's BFF's sound sadly familiar TO ME. It is a fact that most divorces are caused by MONEY PROBLEMS and the Coopers had some....money problems, that is. I have been divorced from my ex for many many years and am happily remarried for 16 years to someone with whom I do NOT have money (or any other) issues. I am blessed in every way. I can assure you I barely remember my ex and he is less than a brief footnote in my life - not because I hate him (our divorce was very friendly and stress free) but because he just isn't important any more. I closed that door when I walked away and I don't look back, just forward.

My past EXPERIENCE is however, a valid point of reference for the oft stated issues in the Cooper marriage AND the stress that might have precipitated Nancy being murdered by her husband. I felt some insight into BOTH sides might clarify both Nancy's behavior and Brad's possible, (even probable) reactions to her behavior. TWO people were in this marriage and now one of them is dead. If Brad killed Nancy, don't we want to understand his motive, and how, where and when he might have killed Nancy and what LE might be investigating in their attempt to prove BC's guilt? Can't very well walk in the killers shoes if you don't understand what feet are.

My Opinion

[Jess]

quote by FlowerChild



Again, more information uncorroborated. And Nancy could leave, she could have moved very close to Canada - all she couldn't do without her daughter's passports was go to Canada with her children. Leaving does NOT equate to divorce Nancy could have left at ANY TIME and still gotten a good settlement in the divorce. She had family and a half dozen friends that would have HELPED Nancy leave Brad in a heartbeat - she was hardly "trapped"

Where could Nancy go ??? to a northern state bordering on Canada ? Montana? to be closer to her parents ? New York State to be closer to her sister ??How would she support her children ? Could she apply for benefits as she was a Canadian without a Green Card ? Do you think she wanted her family to support her ? She couldn't work. Maybe Nancy was trying to solve her dilemma without having her parents physically involved. Maybe she thought by waiting it out, whether it be the separation agreement or Green card, that she could do it on her own. Would there have been an Amber Alert for the children ?She could have left, but honestly, where to ? I feel she was trapped, and I have a feeling that she felt she was trapped.

[d99gr81]

IMO, at the end of the day, I believe Brad is going to find out the hard way that it would have been MUCH CHEAPER to get a DIVORCE!:behindbar

Just sayin'
fran


OK, here is some information for you guys that I found out last night. As I have said before I work with Cisco everyday as part of my job with a major tel com company. I have friends who work for Cisco. Brad Cooper was the highest paid CCIE of 2007. He makes over 160k and last year due to landing the AMEX account he received an additional 285,000 dollars in quarterly bonuses. So 445,000 dollars last year alone...thats how he has the money. He has money and if he did do this the motive was not money.

[SleuthyGal]

He has money and if he did do this the motive was not money.

How do you know the motive was not money (assuming he did it)? Anyway, he'll spend most, if not all, of his money on his defense in the end. A divorce would still have ended up the cheaper option when all is said and done.

And regarding his salary + generous bonus last year: I find it interesting that he was going to use the sale of the house from the divorce to pay back the loan from the 401K, rather than use part of his bonus to do the same. I wonder what the reasoning for that would be. I mean if you have the $$$, then you can pay back the loan before selling the house to do so. And ditto the payoff of the cc and car loans.

[MoonFlwr]

OK, here is some information for you guys that I found out last night. As I have said before I work with Cisco everyday as part of my job with a major tel com company. I have friends who work for Cisco. Brad Cooper was the highest paid CCIE of 2007. He makes over 160k and last year due to landing the AMEX account he received an additional 285,000 dollars in quarterly bonuses. So 445,000 dollars last year alone...thats how he has the money. He has money and if he did do this the motive was not money.

But...even if he had money...he'd have had to split it/share it with Nancy if they got divorced, right?

[Jess]

OK, here is some information for you guys that I found out last night. As I have said before I work with Cisco everyday as part of my job with a major tel com company. I have friends who work for Cisco. Brad Cooper was the highest paid CCIE of 2007. He makes over 160k and last year due to landing the AMEX account he received an additional 285,000 dollars in quarterly bonuses. So 445,000 dollars last year alone...thats how he has the money. He has money and if he did do this the motive was not money.

So, the $45 000 in CC debt ( I think that was the amount) wasn't that big of a deal, then ?? With the bonus, it could have been quickly paid off ??

Perhaps it was the control of HIS money that is the motive.

[carolinalady]

OK, here is some information for you guys that I found out last night. As I have said before I work with Cisco everyday as part of my job with a major tel com company. I have friends who work for Cisco. Brad Cooper was the highest paid CCIE of 2007. He makes over 160k and last year due to landing the AMEX account he received an additional 285,000 dollars in quarterly bonuses. So 445,000 dollars last year alone...thats how he has the money. He has money and if he did do this the motive was not money.

Thanks for the update.

Did you have any thoughts on the TWC subpoena? If they have that for internet/phone provider would that have anything to do w/ a Cisco VoIP?

[d99gr81]

How do you know the motive was not money (assuming he did it)? Anyway, he'll spend most, if not all, of his money on his defense in the end. A divorce would still have ended up the cheaper option when all is said and done.

And regarding his salary + generous bonus last year: I find it interesting that he was going to use the sale of the house from the divorce to pay back the loan from the 401K, rather than use part of his bonus to do the same. I wonder what the reasoning for that would be. I mean if you have the $$$, then you can pay back the loan before selling the house to do so. And ditto the payoff of the car loans.

If he was in the middle of a separation believe me he uses the sale of his house for legal reasons. Bonuses like that can be hidden from a wife...or maybe he invested it. Its not the point. When it comes to separation you want everything you have to be used for legal reasons. Whats funny is you all call him a liar but yet you don't think some how he could have lied about using the sale to pay that off? Yeah it would have been cheaper to get a divorce.... IF he killed her....Again did i miss the arrest, trial and execution? If he is innocent he will lose so much more money just to defend himself. not to mention if someone else did it and they convicted someone else I have a feeling many here will still say he did it.

[carolinalady]

Many things, but more the subpoena's.
BC is not a POI or a suspect so why do the leg work if the client is innocent.

Is buying milk at HT to prove BC was a good daddy? HogWash!

Why TWC? To say he had Disney Channel for the children?

In this day and age I believe you have to be proactive in your defense OR he could just be preparing for the custody hearing. The HT and the phone records were mentioned in the affidavits for custody. If October rolls around and there still hasn't been an arrest in this case, there's going to have to be some type of documentation to back up his statements. They'll want their "independent" experts to examine and evaluate the records, just like the plantiff's side.

Have they posted the actual requests yet (when I looked last night I didn't see the documents online)?

[jumpstreet]

If this single statement is true - that the "oldest child saw NC leaving to go run Saturday AM" (as per the search blog) - does that substantially change the likelihood that BC committed this crime (based on current knowns)?

Granted we don't know the accuracy of the statement, and whether or not it was heard first hand... but if it does happen to be true,... would it represent a substantial reduction in opportunity?

[raisincharlie]

So, the $45 000 in CC debt ( I think that was the amount) wasn't that big of a deal, then ?? With the bonus, it could have been quickly paid off ??

Perhaps it was the control of HIS money that is the motive.

Yes indeed - HIS money.

In early April of this year he agrees Nancy and the girls are free to return to Canada, sets the date to leave at April 26th. Starts work on the house to sell it - all is good, even wants them to leave sooner.

Then he gets Draft 2 (what happened to Draft 1 ?) and all of a sudden he is removing passports, effectively blocking the children from being able to go with Nancy, finally after 8 years, he gets Cisco involved in getting Nancy a green card. Starts playing super dad.

It boils down to a huge custody battle in the making - the children were his tools so he could keep HIS money. The separation agreement is all about money. Its all in the affidavits - including Brad's. Draft 2 makes it very plain the girls would be well cared for in the future so if he cared so much about the children, he could have negotiated money issues. He chose not to. It is about HIS money and nothing more.

[raisincharlie]

If this single statement is true - that the "oldest child saw NC leaving to go run Saturday AM" (as per the search blog) - does that substantially change the likelihood that BC committed this crime (based on current knowns)?

Granted we don't know the accuracy of the statement, and whether or not it was heard first hand... but if it does happen to be true,... would it represent a substantial reduction in opportunity?

Depends on how she saw her Mum. Blake Davis saw his Mum the day she disappeared as well. "Mommy's in the rug"

ETA - it was true - thats how Bobby Cutts removed her from the house to dump her body in the middle of the night. It wasn't a rug though.

[Star12]

If this single statement is true - that the "oldest child saw NC leaving to go run Saturday AM" (as per the search blog) - does that substantially change the likelihood that BC committed this crime (based on current knowns)?

Granted we don't know the accuracy of the statement, and whether or not it was heard first hand... but if it does happen to be true,... would it represent a substantial reduction in opportunity?

It is unlikely that Bella told anyone this information. Unless Diane Duncan ALSO saw Nancy leave to go run on Saturday, that leaves BC as the one saying he and Bella saw her leave. IMO, BC told that to Diane Duncan.

IF the statement by BC to DD were true, that they saw her leave to go run Saturday morning, that definitely would change the likelihood that BC did it.

OTOH, the very nature of the statement makes me think it was an answer to a question; it was still very early in the situation; and what else would he say?

[raisincharlie]

It is unlikely that Bella told anyone this information. Unless Diane Duncan ALSO saw Nancy leave to go run on Saturday, that leaves BC as the one saying he and Bella saw her leave. IMO, BC told that to Diane Duncan.

IF the statement by BC to DD were true, that they saw her leave to go run Saturday morning, that definitely would change the likelihood that BC did it.

OTOH, the very nature of the statement makes me think it was an answer to a question; it was still very early in the situation; and what else would he say?

If DD saw Nancy leave to run, I would agree with you. BC telling DD that he and Bella saw Nancy leave to run doesn't really change any suspicion of him IMO, certainly not in my mind.

[carolinalady]

It is unlikely that Bella told anyone this information. Unless Diane Duncan ALSO saw Nancy leave to go run on Saturday, that leaves BC as the one saying he and Bella saw her leave. IMO, BC told that to Diane Duncan.

IF the statement by BC to DD were true, that they saw her leave to go run Saturday morning, that definitely would change the likelihood that BC did it.

OTOH, the very nature of the statement makes me think it was an answer to a question; it was still very early in the situation; and what else would he say?

The children went w/ the Morwicks on 7/12 while the police were at the house. They were at their house until 10:30/11pm (if I'm remembering correctly). Brad Cooper was with the police at the house, not with the children. I would guess one of Nancy's friends could have asked Bella if she saw Nancy that morning.

[maconrich]

My responses in RED above


My Opinion
As for the cute little list, Nancy apparently DID show it to someone, see Hannah M. Prichards 21. F

[raisincharlie]

For you locals who may belong to Lifetiime I have a few questions if you might have time to answer or if you know.

To access the building does one need a membership card or does one just have to present it at the front desk?


Is there a surveillance camera bubble in the area of the front desk ?

Is there wifi access in the cafe or any other area ?

Thanks in advance.

[carolinalady]

As for the cute little list, Nancy apparently DID show it to someone, see Hannah M. Prichards 21. F

Again, if I'm remembering the timeline correctly, the list was seen months ago. Disturbing, yes, taken at face value. Though I thought it definitely could have been a checklist in preparation for the separation/divorce/custody proceedings.

[carolinalady]

For you locals who may belong to Lifetiime I have a few questions if you might have time to answer or if you know.

To access the building does one need a membership card or does one just have to present it at the front desk?


Is there a surveillance camera bubble in the area of the front desk ?

Is there wifi access in the cafe or any other area ?


Thanks in advance.

I don't belong to Lifetime, but here is their webpage (http://www.lifetimefitness.com/clubs/index.cfm?strWebAction=club_details&intClubId=180). There is WiFi access according to the site.

[maconrich]

Again, if I'm remembering the timeline correctly, the list was seen months ago. Disturbing, yes, taken at face value. Though I thought it definitely could have been a checklist in preparation for the separation/divorce/custody proceedings.

Possibly, but at best it indicated (to me) that Nancy's friends statements were most likely accurate re him not being involved with the children up until the last few months. If he'd been involved all along he wouldn't, imo, need to write down things like the children's favorite whatevers. Granted that side of the list isn't what gave me chills --- but the other side did for sure.

Mike Hiller's statement (pro Brad) also hit me as a bit odd:
#21 "I felt he handled the situation better than I would have if I had been going through the same thing."

If this had come from a woman I wouldn't think twice about it, but coming from a man...well it had more of an impact,

[Onescout]

He's an introvert and he is being looked at and pointed at everywhere he goes - he's a suspect, named as such or not, no wonder he won't go to a public memorial. Every breath he takes in public is analyzed for guilt...some people just cannot grieve in public - much less under such tremendous scrutiny. He has no job to go to and he is also denied the comfort of even SEEING his children. Would you rather he be more like SP, running around everywhere as if nothing is wrong? I am a private griever, I HATE making ANY public show of my grief and in fact I cannot grieve properly with other people around, even my closest loved ones. I immediately go into "consoling" mode if other people are around - I console THEM and swallow my own tears until I am alone. BC is not acting (IMO) inappropriately, he is just grieving privately..no silly string and no parties and no moving on with his life as if Nancy never existed.

As to the suicide attempt - what do his co-workers say? His fellow students in the MBA program? Perhaps he was upset at Nancy - perhaps over the divorce, money, finances and had a bad day where he was upset about EVERYTHING going wrong in his life? One bad day does not a psycho or dangerously depressed person make...especially when it's coming from people who are obviously desperate to get custody of Nancy's children from their father before any proof of his guilt has been offered.

They are ALL grieving and I am not going to condemn ANY of them for the way they are handling this situation right now. When we know more about the death of Nancy Cooper then perhaps THEN I will be prepared to pass judgment on their behavior.

My Opinion

Hi FC, good posts and I'm sorry you went through such a tough time. I really feel what you went through was dealing with someone with a serious probelm than manifested itself in out of control spending. They truly are like addicts and protect their lifestyle at all costs.
I think the Coopers in their unhappy marriage where going in that direction also, only both of them where seeking solace in material things. It wasn't just NC, Brad contributed to the mounting debt also.
I think we need to look at a few things though. Brad was mainly an "introvert" when it came to Nancy's friends, he has a website called "The Amazing Adventures of Brad" where he posts all sorts of info about himself and pictures of him in various trips and social gatherings laughing and whooping it up, doesn't really seem introverted with those people.
He also spends a large amount of money on himself, I'm sure the MBA was not cheap, he drove a beemer, and what he spent on traveling and training for Ironman would greatly suprise you...the bikes they use alone can run around $8,000.00 ....that doesn't include the other gear and entry fees and travel to wherever, Arizona, California and then lodging and meals. Let alone the enormous time spent away form the family in training.
And I can't even go there on what he might have spent on other women that he had been seeing on the side.
SO they both were all tied up in this debt-go-round AND keeping up with the lifestyles of their peers.
And I do have to say, I've looked at a ton of pictures of Nancy and never saw her in anything that wasn't casual and somewhat reasonable in price. She didn't seem to flaunt.
I think their problems went beyond the money and there was deep trouble.
I do still feel BC exhibits classic narccisistic behavior.
However the most telling of all of this is that LE has been clear, they feel this is an isolated case and the residents of Cary have nothing to fear about a serial killer in their midst. I am going with their trained and experienced minds on this one.
And (so for such a long post) BC has yet to offer a reward for info or hiring his own investigator to solve this.

[Onescout]

it doesn't matter how much money nancy did or did not spend. She didn't deserve to die for it.

There seems to be a lot of projection onto nancy of problems posters have had w/ their exes.

amen!

[Onescout]

OK, here is some information for you guys that I found out last night. As I have said before I work with Cisco everyday as part of my job with a major tel com company. I have friends who work for Cisco. Brad Cooper was the highest paid CCIE of 2007. He makes over 160k and last year due to landing the AMEX account he received an additional 285,000 dollars in quarterly bonuses. So 445,000 dollars last year alone...thats how he has the money. He has money and if he did do this the motive was not money.

WOw, great find! hmmm (thinking out loud here) then why did they take out a home equity line of credit? Why did he complain about her spending (which with that salary seemed minute)....
That's a decent chunk of change....
It's not about the money, it's about the CONTROL of the money.

[carolinalady]

Hi FC, good posts and I'm sorry you went through such a tough time. I really feel what you went through was dealing with someone with a serious probelm than manifested itself in out of control spending. They truly are like addicts and protect their lifestyle at all costs.
I think the Coopers in their unhappy marriage where going in that direction also, only both of them where seeking solace in material things. It wasn't just NC, Brad contributed to the mounting debt also.
I think we need to look at a few things though. Brad was mainly an "introvert" when it came to Nancy's friends, he has a website called "The Amazing Adventures of Brad" where he posts all sorts of info about himself and pictures of him in various trips and social gatherings laughing and whooping it up, doesn't really seem introverted with those people.
He also spends a large amount of money on himself, I'm sure the MBA was not cheap, he drove a beemer, and what he spent on traveling and training for Ironman would greatly suprise you...the bikes they use alone can run around $8,000.00 ....that doesn't include the other gear and entry fees and travel to wherever, Arizona, California and then lodging and meals. Let alone the enormous time spent away form the family in training.
And I can't even go there on what he might have spent on other women that he had been seeing on the side.
SO they both were all tied up in this debt-go-round AND keeping up with the lifestyles of their peers.
And I do have to say, I've looked at a ton of pictures of Nancy and never saw her in anything that wasn't casual and somewhat reasonable in price. She didn't seem to flaunt.
I think their problems went beyond the money and there was deep trouble.
I do still feel BC exhibits classic narccisistic behavior.
However the most telling of all of this is that LE has been clear, they feel this is an isolated case and the residents of Cary have nothing to fear about a serial killer in their midst. I am going with their trained and experienced minds on this one.
And (so for such a long post) BC has yet to offer a reward for info or hiring his own investigator to solve this.

An MBA is not cheap, but many employers offer plans to either pay in full or part of advanced education.

I believe RC found that all of the cars were used (via the Wake Co. tax records).

I agree, Ironman gear costs a lot of money and he certainly would have contributed substantial expenses.

As for Nancy wearing casual gear, there was a quote by Diana Duncan in the days when Nancy was still a missing person. Basically, it said Nancy was fashion conscious. I'll have to see if I can find that quote again.

[Onescout]

An MBA is not cheap, but many employers offer plans to either pay in full or part of advanced education.

I believe RC found that all of the cars were used (via the Wake Co. tax records).

I agree, Ironman gear costs a lot of money and he certainly would have contributed substantial expenses.

As for Nancy wearing casual gear, there was a quote by Diana Duncan in the days when Nancy was still a missing person. Basically, it said Nancy was fashion conscious. I'll have to see if I can find that quote again.

I don't think he had help on the MBA form Cisco, I think someone may have posted that one.
A used BMW is still expensive.
And I am fashion conscious when I have to be, otherwise I'm a slob! Most women are a little fashion conscious. Unless your name is Paris! ;)
Maybe someone was addcited to some things we don't know about to take the spendng through the roof. As we just found out, BC was making decent cash...money should not have been an issue...so it was the CONTROL of it, wasn't it?
DO you live near Cary? Is it an affluent area?

[carolinalady]

I don't think he had help on the MBA form Cisco, I think someone may have posted that one.
A used BMW is still expensive.
And I am fashion conscious when I have to be, otherwise I'm a slob! Most women are a little fashion conscious. Unless your name is Paris! ;)
Maybe someone was addcited to some things we don't know about to take the spendng through the roof. As we just found out, BC was making decent cash...money should not have been an issue...so it was the CONTROL of it, wasn't it?
DO you live near Cary? Is it an affluent area?

I live in Raleigh which is near Cary. The neighborhood Nancy lived in is an affluent area.

Here's the link (http://news14.com/content/local_news...n/Default.aspx) and the quote:

SNIP

"I don't think any of us would be well dressed without Nancy Cooper. That was very important to her," Duncan said with a laugh. "And she would always compliment you on your outfit."


SNIP

See link for full news report.

And, I know plenty of people who make lots of money and still are debt up to their eyeballs.

And my recollection is that someone said that Cisco does indeed help pay for advanced degrees.

ETA that link doesn't seem to work anymore. I'll see if News14 has it archived.

[d99gr81]

Hi FC, good posts and I'm sorry you went through such a tough time. I really feel what you went through was dealing with someone with a serious probelm than manifested itself in out of control spending. They truly are like addicts and protect their lifestyle at all costs.
I think the Coopers in their unhappy marriage where going in that direction also, only both of them where seeking solace in material things. It wasn't just NC, Brad contributed to the mounting debt also.
I think we need to look at a few things though. Brad was mainly an "introvert" when it came to Nancy's friends, he has a website called "The Amazing Adventures of Brad" where he posts all sorts of info about himself and pictures of him in various trips and social gatherings laughing and whooping it up, doesn't really seem introverted with those people.
He also spends a large amount of money on himself, I'm sure the MBA was not cheap, he drove a beemer, and what he spent on traveling and training for Ironman would greatly suprise you...the bikes they use alone can run around $8,000.00 ....that doesn't include the other gear and entry fees and travel to wherever, Arizona, California and then lodging and meals. Let alone the enormous time spent away form the family in training.
And I can't even go there on what he might have spent on other women that he had been seeing on the side.
SO they both were all tied up in this debt-go-round AND keeping up with the lifestyles of their peers.
And I do have to say, I've looked at a ton of pictures of Nancy and never saw her in anything that wasn't casual and somewhat reasonable in price. She didn't seem to flaunt.
I think their problems went beyond the money and there was deep trouble.
I do still feel BC exhibits classic narccisistic behavior.
However the most telling of all of this is that LE has been clear, they feel this is an isolated case and the residents of Cary have nothing to fear about a serial killer in their midst. I am going with their trained and experienced minds on this one.
And (so for such a long post) BC has yet to offer a reward for info or hiring his own investigator to solve this.

AGAIN..... Cisco paid for his MBA so that has nothing to do with it. He can EASILY prove who was buying what. For anyone to think that NC did not spend money is naive.

[Topsail Girl]

No, but I understand the tryst was with the man who lived across the street from Heather and Scott at their old house (around the corner from the Cooper's).


From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX@yahoo.com)
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:53 AM
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: Re: Driving me nuts - the BMW in the driveway




Nancy, Heather and other ladies were very close friends. All went to the same hair stylist, nail shop, etc. Heather had an affair with Brad and then another of the friend's husband. The lady is now suing Heather for Alienaton of Affection. Do you know the name of the woman suing Heather?

K~

[Topsail Girl]

Does anyone know who this was? Maybe this will be a start for us anyway.

[carolinalady]

I live in Raleigh which is near Cary. The neighborhood Nancy lived in is an affluent area.

Here's the link (http://news14.com/content/local_news...n/Default.aspx) and the quote:

SNIP

"I don't think any of us would be well dressed without Nancy Cooper. That was very important to her," Duncan said with a laugh. "And she would always compliment you on your outfit."


SNIP

See link for full news report.

And, I know plenty of people who make lots of money and still are debt up to their eyeballs.

And my recollection is that someone said that Cisco does indeed help pay for advanced degrees.

ETA that link doesn't seem to work anymore. I'll see if News14 has it archived.

Hopefully, this link will work: http://news14.com/Default.aspx?ArID=597471

[d99gr81]

I don't think he had help on the MBA form Cisco, I think someone may have posted that one.
A used BMW is still expensive.
And I am fashion conscious when I have to be, otherwise I'm a slob! Most women are a little fashion conscious. Unless your name is Paris! ;)
Maybe someone was addcited to some things we don't know about to take the spendng through the roof. As we just found out, BC was making decent cash...money should not have been an issue...so it was the CONTROL of it, wasn't it?
DO you live near Cary? Is it an affluent area?

This is what I mean. I know for fact Cisco did pay for his MBA yet you say I don't think Cisco helped.... After being told that Cisco does pay for them what makes you think they didn't for him?

[carolinalady]

Does anyone know who this was? Maybe this will be a start for us anyway.

So, someone on Strathburgh?

According to the plantiffs' affidavits, Heather & Scott lived across the street from the Fetterolfs. (Jennifer Fetterolf's affidavit #6).

[christine2448]

Originally Posted by d99gr81 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2466581#post2466581)
OK, here is some information for you guys that I found out last night. As I have said before I work with Cisco everyday as part of my job with a major tel com company. I have friends who work for Cisco. Brad Cooper was the highest paid CCIE of 2007. He makes over 160k and last year due to landing the AMEX account he received an additional 285,000 dollars in quarterly bonuses. So 445,000 dollars last year alone...thats how he has the money. He has money and if he did do this the motive was not money.


I have to totally disagree with that statement. IMO, you just gave us motive. $445,000 last yr alone..divorcing......how much was he going to lose? In the divorce then payments for years to come.

[raisincharlie]

I have to totally disagree with that statement. IMO, you just gave us motive. $445,000 last yr alone..divorcing......how much was he going to lose? In the divorce then payments for years to come.

Kind of what I was thinking Christine - explosive motive ! There has to be a reason why in April Brad was willing to let the girls and Nancy go to Canada with no fight. He gets a draft separation ageement in mid April and studies the money involved and bam the passports disappear Nancy and the children are no longer free to leave, and on advice from his lawyer he starts playing super dad, not to mention after 8 years he decides to go through Cisco to help Nancy get a green card...heavy stuff indeed.

[d99gr81]

Kind of what I was thinking Christine - explosive motive ! There has to be a reason why in April Brad was willing to let the girls and Nancy go to Canada with no fight. He gets a draft separation ageement in mid April and studies the money involved and bam the passports disappear Nancy and the children are no longer free to leave, and on advice from his lawyer he starts playing super dad, not to mention after 8 years he decides to go through Cisco to help Nancy get a green card...heavy stuff indeed.

Everything can be looked at as a motive....no money..lots of money.. I want some hard facts which we have none. Everything is rumors and speculation. It's easy for people to talk as if he did it because many times it is the significant other. I for one wont take the easy route. I will assume innocent till proven guilty.

[Topsail Girl]

So, someone on Strathburgh?

According to the plantiffs' affidavits, Heather & Scott lived across the street from the Fetterolfs. (Jennifer Fetterolf's affidavit #6).


I'm not at all familiar with neighborhoods in Cary so please forgive. Is Strathburgh the street that Heather and Scott used to live on when they were married to each other?

ETA - I looked at the affidavits and I see the info. I have no clue wht the street name is.

[raisincharlie]

Everything can be looked at as a motive....no money..lots of money.. I want some hard facts which we have none. Everything is rumors and speculation. It's easy for people to talk as if he did it because many times it is the significant other. I for one wont take the easy route. I will assume innocent till proven guilty.

Have at it. I've done my homework too and still disagree with you. You have claimed on numerous times Brad's affidavits are the truth, Nancy's friends are lying and Nancy herself lied but buddy place it in a time line even with what Brad's "truth" is and the writing appears on the wall. The money does matter.

[carolinalady]

I'm not at all familiar with neighborhoods in Cary so please forgive. Is Strathburgh the street that Heather and Scott used to live on when they were married to each other?

Yes, I looked up the street the Fetterolfs live on and see that Scott & Heather lived on Strathburgh until last year.

[d99gr81]

Have at it. I've done my homework too and still disagree with you. You have claimed on numerous times Brad's affidavits are the truth, Nancy's friends are lying and Nancy herself lied but buddy place it in a time line even with what Brad's "truth" is and the writing appears on the wall. The money does matter.

I never said either was a truth or lie. Don't put words in my mouth. I merely gave the FAIR outside the box look due to my own experiences. I have always stated WE DON'T KNOW. Yet some of you seem to know everything with out one shred of hard evidence.

Hard to do "Home work" with out hard evidence. Basically your homework has been on rumors and hear say and because you "KNOW" you have a conclusion that you think is right. I for one would dread having you on a jury.

[Topsail Girl]

Yes, I looked up the street the Fetterolfs live on and see that Scott & Heather lived on Strathburgh until last year.

Carolinalady you are just too fast for me. Did you find this info through tax records?

[christine2448]

Everything is rumors and speculation.

Not entirely true...there are some facts that we are baseing our speculation on.

I for one, don't know if he did it or not. Stats say he did. IMO, there is defenitley motive, means, and op. here for Brad to be the killer...BUT, that just based on what we know.

Yes, speculate, that's what we do on a discussion board. We can only discuss what we know and posters will base their opinions on that.

BTW, I'm curious, Who do you think did it?

[raisincharlie]

I never said either was a truth or lie. Don't put words in my mouth. I merely gave the FAIR outside the box look due to my own experiences. I have always stated WE DON'T KNOW. Yet some of you seem to know everything with out one shred of hard evidence.

Hard to do "Home work" with out hard evidence. Basically your homework has been on rumors and hear say and because you "KNOW" you have a conclusion that you think is right. I for one would dread having you on a jury.

Uh huh -and typically you assume you know what I have looked at and what I have seen. Truth is you have no idea. If you have paid attention you know I find the affidavaits on both sides to be "embellished" and untrutstworthy with respect to the total reality. So keep that tunnel vision of yours going.

[Skittles]

I hope this poor innocent child didn't happened to see Mommy so-called sleeping :steamed:

That could be the only 1 line this child said to know it was time to get them out. Four yo might not get questioned, but they sure can talk. Like I was told by a psychologist..they haven't learned to tell a lie yet, just deny.

Mom, that's a good point. If Bella said something that implicated Brad, Nancy's parents would have wanted to get her away from him to keep her safe.

[carolinalady]

Carolinalady you are just too fast for me. Did you find this info through tax records?

Well, I remembered that one of Nancy's friends said that Scott & Heather had lived across the street from them. Then I looked at tax records and sales w/i the past year.

[caryresident]

For you locals who may belong to Lifetiime I have a few questions if you might have time to answer or if you know.

To access the building does one need a membership card or does one just have to present it at the front desk?


Is there a surveillance camera bubble in the area of the front desk ?

Is there wifi access in the cafe or any other area ?

Thanks in advance.


Hi RC,

You need a membership card. I would think they would have cameras around the front desk. There is wifi access in the cafe.

[christine2448]

Continue here please. (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2467252#post2467252)

BE NICE TO EACHOTHER, AGREE TO DISAGREE. WE SHOULD WELCOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT THEORY ON THE CASE...BETTER FOR DISCUSSIONS, :doh: MIGHT AS WELL JUST TALK TO MYSELF IF I ONLY WANT TO HEAR MY OWN THEORY.:waitasec: