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View Full Version : Zenaida's Sawgrass Apt's Visit Date Changed From April to June



Muzikman
08-05-2008, 06:49 PM
According to WKMG Local 6 a few minutes ago, the Zenaida Gonzalez card at Sawgrass Apts, where she supposedly checked out an apartment, is dated JUNE 17 not APRIL 17 as stated in the police report.

According to WKMG, who talked to Sawgrass Apt. management, the card was sloppily filled out, which is where the 4/17 date came from. Also, when they tried following up with the potential renter by phone on 6/25, the phone number was invalid.

Also, the apartment Casey led detectives to - #210 - is directly below the Model unit - #212 - used to show potential renters.

This is a potentially huge timeline change in my opinion, not favorable to Casey. This video report was not up on Local6.com yet, I DVR'd and just watched.

RebeccaAdrianne
08-05-2008, 07:04 PM
according to wkmg local 6 a few minutes ago, the zenaida gonzalez card at sawgrass apts, where she supposedly checked out an apartment, is dated june 17 not april 17 as stated in the police report.

According to wkmg, who talked to sawgrass apt. Management, the card was sloppily filled out, which is where the 4/17 date came from. Also, when they tried following up with the potential renter by phone on 6/25, the phone number was invalid.

Also, the apartment casey led detectives to - #210 - is directly below the model unit - #212 - used to show potential renters.

This is a potentially huge timeline change in my opinion, not favorable to casey. This video report was not up on local6.com yet, i dvr'd and just watched.

super interesting!

STEADFAST
08-05-2008, 07:14 PM
That is huge! Sounds like maybe Casey was setting up her lie. Then when the card was read as "April 17" it messed up her story.

WhitneyLea
08-05-2008, 07:18 PM
Whoa! I wonder if anyone remembers what this "Zenaida" woman who viewed the apartment looked like?? Do you think Casey went herself, to "back up" her story, or sent someone else, or ... ??

WhitneyLea
08-05-2008, 07:24 PM
That is huge! Sounds like maybe Casey was setting up her lie. Then when the card was read as "April 17" it messed up her story.

Or maybe Casey wrote April 17 ... and then someone who worked there remembered "No way it's been that long ago, it had to be June 17." I know whenever I visit an apt, they call me within 1-2 weeks like clockwork to follow up.

Oh man ... June 17 ... this could be either right BEFORE or AFTER *something* happened to Caylee ... right? Is there a consensus yet on when this something probably happened? Do we think Casey was setting up or covering her ass?? (or neither?)

ShinaLite
08-05-2008, 07:27 PM
very interesting! wow.. great find muzikman..

jdj8766
08-05-2008, 07:30 PM
Whoa! I wonder if anyone remembers what this "Zenaida" woman who viewed the apartment looked like?? Do you think Casey went herself, to "back up" her story, or sent someone else, or ... ??

The police contacted the women who filled out the card and she denied knowing Casey. Also, Casey didn't recognize her when they showed her a picture.

LI_Mom
08-05-2008, 07:35 PM
According to WKMG Local 6 a few minutes ago, the Zenaida Gonzalez card at Sawgrass Apts, where she supposedly checked out an apartment, is dated JUNE 17 not APRIL 17 as stated in the police report.

According to WKMG, who talked to Sawgrass Apt. management, the card was sloppily filled out, which is where the 4/17 date came from. Also, when they tried following up with the potential renter by phone on 6/25, the phone number was invalid.

Also, the apartment Casey led detectives to - #210 - is directly below the Model unit - #212 - used to show potential renters.

This is a potentially huge timeline change in my opinion, not favorable to Casey. This video report was not up on Local6.com yet, I DVR'd and just watched.

Refresh my memory... why was Casey ever at that complex anyway?


I still doubt anyone has anything to do with Caylee's disappearance besides her own 'good mother.'

No way would Casey's friends or acquaintances cover up a baby's murder.

LI_Mom
08-05-2008, 07:37 PM
The police contacted the women who filled out the card and she denied knowing Casey. Also, Casey didn't recognize her when they showed her a picture.

Oooops... I forgot... it was a real woman.

Ok... back to the original theory.... Casey got her hands on the records & jotted down the woman's name & maybe personal info.... preparing the wild goose chase for her family & LE.

wedavis
08-05-2008, 07:39 PM
According to WKMG Local 6 a few minutes ago, the Zenaida Gonzalez card at Sawgrass Apts, where she supposedly checked out an apartment, is dated JUNE 17 not APRIL 17 as stated in the police report.

According to WKMG, who talked to Sawgrass Apt. management, the card was sloppily filled out, which is where the 4/17 date came from. Also, when they tried following up with the potential renter by phone on 6/25, the phone number was invalid.

Also, the apartment Casey led detectives to - #210 - is directly below the Model unit - #212 - used to show potential renters.

This is a potentially huge timeline change in my opinion, not favorable to Casey. This video report was not up on Local6.com yet, I DVR'd and just watched.

You would think the affidavit would be the first read by anyone interested in this case...

The part about not being able to contact this particular ZG contradicts the affidavit, which states that LE called the number on the renter card and they talked to this ZG, who denied any knowledge of Caylee, Casey etc.

Additionally, LE showed Casey this ZG's pic and Casey didn't know her.

ShinaLite
08-05-2008, 07:39 PM
Refresh my memory... why was Casey ever at that complex anyway?


Gotta assume LE is doing a handwriting analysis on the ZG card to see if they can tie it to Casey's handwriting.

I still doubt anyone has anything to do with Caylee's disappearance besides her own 'good mother.'

No way would Casey's friends or acquaintances cover up a baby's murder.

this was where she said she dropped Caylee off...
I dont think it has anything to do with Caylee's disappearance either but it would poke some holes in Casey's story (big surprise)...I think just having a ZG check out those apartments would be something the defense would use to deflect attention from the real facts or to plant some small doubt..
the date change makes that a little harder...The only ZG they can match to that place was there AFTER Caylee disappeared...

LI_Mom
08-05-2008, 07:48 PM
this was where she said she dropped Caylee off...
I dont think it has anything to do with Caylee's disappearance either but it would poke some holes in Casey's story (big surprise)...I think just having a ZG check out those apartments would be something the defense would use to deflect attention from the real facts or to plant some small doubt..
the date change makes that a little harder...The only ZG they can match to that place was there AFTER Caylee disappeared...

Thanks, SL.

So I wonder why Casey would ever have been there in the first place... was she looking to rent an apt? Looking for drugs?

Would Caylee have still been alive on the 16th & 17th?? Where was Caylee from 6/15 to 6/17?

ElizaAvalon
08-05-2008, 08:04 PM
The "new" date of 6/17 on the card makes even more sense to me.

I'm thinking Casey had been there to look at apartments, maybe with Amy. And Casey probably saw the name on the card.

txsvicki
08-05-2008, 08:17 PM
I think Casey was Zenaida. Many of pics of the nutjob look like totally different people and she looks even different on television. Some of the pics where Casey is pursing her lips a little and wearing sunglasses she looks like a Hispanic girl. The apartment manager may be mistaken. I hope she gets online and looks at all the pics.

Muzikman
08-05-2008, 08:25 PM
You would think the affidavit would be the first read by anyone interested in this case...

The part about not being able to contact this particular ZG contradicts the affidavit, which states that LE called the number on the renter card and they talked to this ZG, who denied any knowledge of Caylee, Casey etc.

Additionally, LE showed Casey this ZG's pic and Casey didn't know her.

I have been following this case since the day it hit, since I live in Orlando. I have read/watched/listened to pretty much everything to do with this case.

That's why this is a big deal if true, BECAUSE it contradicts the police report. To me, it makes it look like Casey may have been setting up her story already.

IIRC, the card had Zenaida's current address on it also, which is how the cops checked her out.

housemouse
08-05-2008, 08:29 PM
My best guess is that this is the timeframe when Caylee went "missing". I type that, because it is hard to type the other obvious word.

She was, probably, setting up her latest lie to cover her sorry excuse for a self.

Casey better get right with God, in my humble opinion, and fess up to whatever happened, so she can save her soul.



Or maybe Casey wrote April 17 ... and then someone who worked there remembered "No way it's been that long ago, it had to be June 17." I know whenever I visit an apt, they call me within 1-2 weeks like clockwork to follow up.

Oh man ... June 17 ... this could be either right BEFORE or AFTER *something* happened to Caylee ... right? Is there a consensus yet on when this something probably happened? Do we think Casey was setting up or covering her ass?? (or neither?)

wedavis
08-05-2008, 08:38 PM
That's why this is a big deal if true, BECAUSE it contradicts the police report. To me, it makes it look like Casey may have been setting up her story already.




I don't understand what you are getting at with this statement.

Muzikman
08-05-2008, 08:54 PM
I don't understand what you are getting at with this statement.


Casey picked a name and address out of the phone book, went in herself and filled out a card with Zenaida's info, putting in a false phone number.

In other words, the beginning of her setting up the story of the "nanny".

If the date were actually April 17, how would casey have gotten Zenaida's info? Known that Z had actually been at Sawgrass?

If the date were June 17, Casey did it herself.

Make sense to you yet?

wedavis
08-05-2008, 08:55 PM
According to WKMG Local 6 a few minutes ago, the Zenaida Gonzalez card at Sawgrass Apts, where she supposedly checked out an apartment, is dated JUNE 17 not APRIL 17 as stated in the police report.

According to WKMG, who talked to Sawgrass Apt. management, the card was sloppily filled out, which is where the 4/17 date came from. Also, when they tried following up with the potential renter by phone on 6/25, the phone number was invalid.

Also, the apartment Casey led detectives to - #210 - is directly below the Model unit - #212 - used to show potential renters.

This is a potentially huge timeline change in my opinion, not favorable to Casey. This video report was not up on Local6.com yet, I DVR'd and just watched.


I can't find this information anywhere. In order to believe this I need a link. It isn't in an article on the WKMG website.

french75
08-05-2008, 09:13 PM
Casey picked a name and address out of the phone book, went in herself and filled out a card with Zenaida's info, putting in a false phone number.

In other words, the beginning of her setting up the story of the "nanny".

If the date were actually April 17, how would casey have gotten Zenaida's info? Known that Z had actually been at Sawgrass?

If the date were June 17, Casey did it herself.

Make sense to you yet?

But if she was filling it out/setting it up, she could have put *any* date. I don't understand how having this card actually helps her in any way.

Nickelfoo
08-05-2008, 09:15 PM
Casey had to have known ZG had been to look at an apartment there. Forgive me if this has been answered already but did someone see her at the apartments? I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how Casey knew ZG had been there. And yes I want to say Casey went herself on 6/17 but ZG already confirmed she went herself so how did Casey possibly know that?

tttterri
08-05-2008, 09:19 PM
I hope someone posts the link to this new info also. If it is true, and turned over to LE, I'm sure they can easily check the handwriting to see if it is Casey's. While I'm hoping, I hope those dogs are wrong and Caylee is somewhere safe.

wedavis
08-05-2008, 09:21 PM
Casey had to have known ZG had been to look at an apartment there. Forgive me if this has been answered already but did someone see her at the apartments? I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how Casey knew ZG had been there. And yes I want to say Casey went herself on 6/17 but ZG already confirmed she went herself so how did Casey possibly know that?


The theory is Casey was there maybe with Amy (Amy was apartment looking at that time according to facebook postings) and maybe Casey saw her card, or was in the room when this ZG woman gave out her info. LE needs to go back to the leasing office and see if Amy or Casey filled out an "I'm looking" card.

But I still am not going to buy this new June date until I get a link.

wedavis
08-05-2008, 09:24 PM
I hope someone posts the link to this new info also. If it is true, and turned over to LE, I'm sure they can easily check the handwriting to see if it is Casey's. While I'm hoping, I hope those dogs are wrong and Caylee is somewhere safe.

This is getting frustrating: PLEASE! Read the affidavit! (or posts about it before posting). :)

You would think the affidavit would be the first read by anyone interested in this case...

The part about not being able to contact this particular ZG contradicts the affidavit, which states that LE called the number on the renter card and they talked to this ZG, who denied any knowledge of Caylee, Casey etc.

Additionally, LE showed Casey this ZG's pic and Casey didn't know her.

For the last time...geez

Nickelfoo
08-05-2008, 09:24 PM
The theory is Casey was there maybe with Amy (Amy was apartment looking at that time according to facebook postings) and maybe Casey saw her card, or was in the room when this ZG woman gave out her info. LE needs to go back to the leasing office and see if Amy or Casey filled out an "I'm looking" card.

But I still am not going to buy this new June date until I get a link.

I agree. The information coming out is crazy and many times incorrect. I am not saying by any means this is incorrect, only time will tell. Your right the question is, who else looked at apartments THAT day??

MsRyber
08-05-2008, 09:27 PM
Casey picked a name and address out of the phone book, went in herself and filled out a card with Zenaida's info, putting in a false phone number.

In other words, the beginning of her setting up the story of the "nanny".

If the date were actually April 17, how would casey have gotten Zenaida's info? Known that Z had actually been at Sawgrass?

If the date were June 17, Casey did it herself.

Make sense to you yet?

That doesn't make sense to me.

The police tracked down the ZG from the Sawgrass. See Page 5 of Arrest Affidavit. She was contacted and was willing to complete a sworn statement. Casey didn't fill out the card with ZG's info. It has been confirmed that A "ZG" had filled out the card.

But that doesn't mean Casey wasn't there and had seen this. We just don't know if she was there. It is quite possible she had seen the place. The manager and maintenance person said they had never saw Caylee. (Page 4 of Arrest Affidavit) I find it interesting that they didn't confirm or deny seeing Casey (at least in what the detective mentioned in the affidavit).

wedavis
08-05-2008, 09:34 PM
Casey picked a name and address out of the phone book, went in herself and filled out a card with Zenaida's info, putting in a false phone number.

In other words, the beginning of her setting up the story of the "nanny".

If the date were actually April 17, how would casey have gotten Zenaida's info? Known that Z had actually been at Sawgrass?

If the date were June 17, Casey did it herself.

Make sense to you yet?

NO! :)

Police called the ZG that filled out the card and talked to her. This ZG doesn't know Casey or Caylee.

If this new date is true all it means is that the theory about Casey having seen the card somehow recently and got the crazy idea to pin a murder on her is more believable than if Casey somehow remembered her name for three months.

Salem
08-05-2008, 09:39 PM
Respectfully snipped ~

The part about not being able to contact this particular ZG contradicts the affidavit, which states that LE called the number on the renter card and they talked to this ZG, who denied any knowledge of Caylee, Casey etc.

Additionally, LE showed Casey this ZG's pic and Casey didn't know her.

Ahhhh.... but did the police show the manager, or ask the manager when Casey was with them, if they had ever seen Casey before? Maybe Casey was there the day ZG showed up to look at the apt. Why....who knows. But Casey got this info from somewhere, in my opinion. Maybe she was there for some reason...

Salem

Sparky
08-05-2008, 09:41 PM
WKMG reported this at 6pm today. I heard it. It's not posted on their web site yet.

babycat
08-05-2008, 09:50 PM
I would also be interested to see a link...

but it is very interesting new info, if it is true.

babycat
08-05-2008, 09:55 PM
I'm sorry, I know this has already been asked, but I don't remember seeing an answer. Do they have video cameras on the premises? Or photocopy photo id's of possible renters? The complex where I live does this...

I agree that it's possible that she might have gone to the Sawgrass looking with Amy, or even on her own. I'm sure if this is true, Amy has been to LE with this info.

But the fact that the apartment she pointed out as being "ZG's" is in the building as the "floor model" apartment, is very interesting, in my opinion. I'm anxious to find out if this is true.

wedavis
08-05-2008, 10:09 PM
Respectfully snipped ~

Ahhhh.... but did the police show the manager, or ask the manager when Casey was with them, if they had ever seen Casey before? Maybe Casey was there the day ZG showed up to look at the apt. Why....who knows. But Casey got this info from somewhere, in my opinion. Maybe she was there for some reason...

Salem


No Casey was not with them and they didn't ask. I don't think police care how Casey may have "made up" this name.

Muzikman
08-05-2008, 10:26 PM
Re-watching this (I DVR'd it), don't know why KMG doesn't have it up on their website yet. So far it's been exclusive to them - and I watch and/or DVR ALL FOUR local station's newscasts, as each of them have come up with new details at times - although I think WESH has done the best overall so far.

They report asking the Sheriff's office about it - "Is it possible Casey went there posing as Gonzeles?" Sheriff's office replied "That cannot be ruled out." But "will not discuss significance of individual dates."

Card was Hand-written, the person that filled it out had sloppy handwriting, which is how they mis-construed that date.

So they have made investigators aware of this discrepancy, I would think they would be following up pretty quickly.

liltigress
08-05-2008, 10:53 PM
This makes me wonder who works there that is friends with Casey or an accomplice in some way? That date could have been changed?

wedavis
08-05-2008, 10:55 PM
This makes me wonder who works there that is friends with Casey or an accomplice in some way? That date could have been changed?

No, it would be the exact opposite. The new date would more damning AGAINST Casey.

Truly
08-06-2008, 01:34 AM
Who owns this property? Sawgrass Apartments is not listed with the Florida Department of State. Who holds the deed to this property? Who is responsible for leasing these apartments? What are the actual names of the people who own/lease Sawgrass? Could this be yet another 'dummy' real estate deal? Any local person could walk into the courthouse and research the deed for this address. I would be much obliged to know who holds the deed. I would love to know the name of the person or corporation which owns/leases this particular piece of property. I cannot find it. Just like everything else in this case, it is shrouded in some inexplicable mystery.

Why did Casey lead police to Sawgrass Apartments? Who owns the place? Which specific leasing agent handled the ZG card? There is some tiny kernel of truth behind every lie thus far. I am so ready for some honest truthful facts! But the most basic simple facts are almost impossible to locate in this case. I keep wondering why there is such a blackout smokescreen about everything, even things which have absolutely nothing to do with the crazy family. :waitasec:

JBean
08-06-2008, 02:22 AM
Who owns this property? Sawgrass Apartments is not listed with the Florida Department of State. Who holds the deed to this property? Who is responsible for leasing these apartments? What are the actual names of the people who own/lease Sawgrass? Could this be yet another 'dummy' real estate deal? Any local person could walk into the courthouse and research the deed for this address. I would be much obliged to know who holds the deed. I would love to know the name of the person or corporation which owns/leases this particular piece of property. I cannot find it. Just like everything else in this case, it is shrouded in some inexplicable mystery.

Why did Casey lead police to Sawgrass Apartments? Who owns the place? Which specific leasing agent handled the ZG card? There is some tiny kernel of truth behind every lie thus far. I am so ready for some honest truthful facts! But the most basic simple facts are almost impossible to locate in this case. I keep wondering why there is such a blackout smokescreen about everything, even things which have absolutely nothing to do with the crazy family. :waitasec:
Well after going up and down Conway and looking at all the owners and addresses, the closest I can find is Sea Cove Apartments at 2859 S Conway. I'll look some more tomorrow.

JBean
08-06-2008, 02:45 AM
Who owns this property? Sawgrass Apartments is not listed with the Florida Department of State. Who holds the deed to this property? Who is responsible for leasing these apartments? What are the actual names of the people who own/lease Sawgrass? Could this be yet another 'dummy' real estate deal? Any local person could walk into the courthouse and research the deed for this address. I would be much obliged to know who holds the deed. I would love to know the name of the person or corporation which owns/leases this particular piece of property. I cannot find it. Just like everything else in this case, it is shrouded in some inexplicable mystery.

Why did Casey lead police to Sawgrass Apartments? Who owns the place? Which specific leasing agent handled the ZG card? There is some tiny kernel of truth behind every lie thus far. I am so ready for some honest truthful facts! But the most basic simple facts are almost impossible to locate in this case. I keep wondering why there is such a blackout smokescreen about everything, even things which have absolutely nothing to do with the crazy family. :waitasec:
Property Name:SAWGRASS APARTMENTSOwner Name(s):P A C LAND II LTD

2859 is part of the same complex as 2863. On title records it is called Sea Grove Apts and on property tax roll it is Saw Grass Apts. So they changed the name at some point, but the owner is still the same.

Sherbie
08-06-2008, 03:34 AM
What's interesting is that the apt complex had noted that ZG's phone number wasn't valid. Coincidentally, Casey somehow knew to say the supposed call she got from Caylee was from a number no longer in service, if I recall correctly. So that could possibly mean that Casey saw ZG's card at Sawgrass sometime after the 25th, after the notation had been made on ZG's card that her phone number was invalid.

Was she looking for a scapegoat or was she being nosy and reading the application cards while she talked to or waited for someone? Does anyone at all who works in the office of that apt complex remember ever having seen Casey? Could she have visited wearing a cap and sunglasses and given a false name herself?

I don't know what types of leads are ones LE thinks are worth chasing and which aren't, but I think it might be worthwhile to track down every person who left a contact card during that period of time to verify that they do indeed exist and had indeed visited the complex.

RoseRed
08-06-2008, 04:05 AM
According to WKMG Local 6 a few minutes ago, the Zenaida Gonzalez card at Sawgrass Apts, where she supposedly checked out an apartment, is dated JUNE 17 not APRIL 17 as stated in the police report.

According to WKMG, who talked to Sawgrass Apt. management, the card was sloppily filled out, which is where the 4/17 date came from. Also, when they tried following up with the potential renter by phone on 6/25, the phone number was invalid.

Also, the apartment Casey led detectives to - #210 - is directly below the Model unit - #212 - used to show potential renters.

This is a potentially huge timeline change in my opinion, not favorable to Casey. This video report was not up on Local6.com yet, I DVR'd and just watched.

Actually #212 is the apartment of the Music producer Williams guy. We discussed this already and he is associated with the Fucian Club. There is a thread on here already about this apartment #212 IIRC.

MsRyber
08-06-2008, 08:31 AM
Re-watching this (I DVR'd it), don't know why KMG doesn't have it up on their website yet. So far it's been exclusive to them - and I watch and/or DVR ALL FOUR local station's newscasts, as each of them have come up with new details at times - although I think WESH has done the best overall so far.

They report asking the Sheriff's office about it - "Is it possible Casey went there posing as Gonzeles?" Sheriff's office replied "That cannot be ruled out." But "will not discuss significance of individual dates."

Card was Hand-written, the person that filled it out had sloppy handwriting, which is how they mis-construed that date.

So they have made investigators aware of this discrepancy, I would think they would be following up pretty quickly.

That doesn't change the fact that on page 4 and 5 of the affidavit, they confirm that they did speak with a ZG who filled out the card.

Muzikman
08-06-2008, 09:40 AM
That doesn't change the fact that on page 4 and 5 of the affidavit, they confirm that they did speak with a ZG who filled out the card.

It does NOT state that she filled out the card or had ever been to Sawgrass. Just that they had spoken to the Zenaida identified from the Sawgrass records - and her info could have been pulled from a phonebook.

They have not released her statement, so we don't actually KNOW that this Zenaida was EVER at Sawgrass.

Muzikman
08-06-2008, 11:11 AM
No video of last nights 6 PM report on the Local 6 site - I wish there were, because it was much more detailed than this.

Or that there was an easy way for me to transfer my DVR recordings to Youtube. They do not seem to be putting up complete news broadcast coverage, and the local news reports often are much more detailed than what they end up posting on their sites.


http://www.local6.com/news/17108143/detail.html
Baby Sitter Remains Mystery

Deputies are still trying to figure out exactly when Caylee vanished and are not ruling out that her mother, Casey, may have posed as the mystery baby sitter no one can find.
Casey Anthony maintains the last time she saw her daughter was the day she dropped her off with a woman named Zenaida Gonzalez at the Sawgrass Apartments in Orlando.
According to the original arrest report from July 15, someone by the name of Zenaida Gonzalez looked at an apartment on April 17, 2008.
Local 6 has confirmed with apartment managers that the incident didn't happen in April but on June 17.
The date is important because Caylee was last seen two days before on June 15, Local 6's Lauren Rowe said.
Sawgrass managers said on June 17, someone came to inquire about an apartment.
Investigators said the person filled-out a guest card using the name Zenaida Gonzalez and the person who wrote it had sloppy handwriting.
Someone misread the date when filing out an original arrest record, Local 6 reported.
Sources told Local 6 that when apartment managers tried to follow up with the woman after June 25, the phone number she gave was no longer valid.
And the apartment where Anthony said she left Caylee had been vacant for about six months, Local 6 has learned.
Investigators said they located a woman named Zenaida Gonzales but she said she'd never heard of Caylee or Casey.

JBean
08-06-2008, 11:43 AM
It does NOT state that she filled out the card or had ever been to Sawgrass. Just that they had spoken to the Zenaida identified from the Sawgrass records - and her info could have been pulled from a phonebook.

They have not released her statement, so we don't actually KNOW that this Zenaida was EVER at Sawgrass.
This is the same information I have seen Muzikman. If Gonzalez did say she filled out the card I would appreciate a link to that info so we can determineif the source is credible.

maur33
08-06-2008, 12:09 PM
It does NOT state that she filled out the card or had ever been to Sawgrass. Just that they had spoken to the Zenaida identified from the Sawgrass records - and her info could have been pulled from a phonebook.

They have not released her statement, so we don't actually KNOW that this Zenaida was EVER at Sawgrass.

This was my understanding of the apartment issue as well, I just don't know where people are getting this information that Zenaida filled out a card and looked at an apartment?

I think it is more believeable that casey filled out this card herself after either getting this woman's name out of the phone book or unbeknowst to Zenaida she was in the vicinity of casey once (at a park, a restaurant..etc) and casey overheard information about her and decided that this woman would be her alibi.

Muzikman
08-06-2008, 01:28 PM
Fox News National reporter on the scene a few minutes ago saying that this discrepancy is being checked into now by the Sheriff's Dept. at the apartment complex.

websurfer
08-06-2008, 03:27 PM
According to WKMG Local 6 a few minutes ago, the Zenaida Gonzalez card at Sawgrass Apts, where she supposedly checked out an apartment, is dated JUNE 17 not APRIL 17 as stated in the police report.

According to WKMG, who talked to Sawgrass Apt. management, the card was sloppily filled out, which is where the 4/17 date came from. Also, when they tried following up with the potential renter by phone on 6/25, the phone number was invalid.

Also, the apartment Casey led detectives to - #210 - is directly below the Model unit - #212 - used to show potential renters.

This is a potentially huge timeline change in my opinion, not favorable to Casey. This video report was not up on Local6.com yet, I DVR'd and just watched.


Maybe Casey was really looking for apartments ,before whatever happened to Caylee happened?

She could have heard people talking and ran with the info?And used it when she had to?
To set things up?
:confused:
I can't think like this wacko ...
so?

LI_Mom
08-06-2008, 03:33 PM
It does NOT state that she filled out the card or had ever been to Sawgrass. Just that they had spoken to the Zenaida identified from the Sawgrass records - and her info could have been pulled from a phonebook.

They have not released her statement, so we don't actually KNOW that this Zenaida was EVER at Sawgrass.

Hmmmm.... so it's still possible that Casey herself posed as ZG and filled out the card... leaving a fake number because she doesn't want ZG to actually get a call back from the rental office.

Muzikman
08-06-2008, 03:50 PM
That's what I think also, LI Mom.

If they can prove this, it would mean that Casey was conspiring to create the whole nanny story ahead of time.

LI_Mom
08-06-2008, 04:15 PM
That's what I think also, LI Mom.

If they can prove this, it would mean that Casey was conspiring to create the whole nanny story ahead of time.

Exactly!

Either Casey was there & saw the card already filled out & figured it was as good a lie as any OR she actually planned this all very carefully.

Either way.... she DID know in advance to say the ZG phone number was NOT a 'good' number.


Would be SO interesting to know what they keep looking for each time they return to the house.....

Personally, I think Casey is fried.... it's just a matter of time.

I also think a whole lot of people in LE would like nothing better than to officially charge her with murder BEFORE Caylee's 'birthday party' on Saturday.

Muzikman
08-06-2008, 06:12 PM
WKMG reporting that their report yesterday prompted the OCSO to go back to the apt complex for more investigation.

The building is 2863, in case there is any question.

Today, OCSO requested the original guest card of Zenaida Gonzalez (so I guess they did not have it as evidence from their initial visit - unbelievable!)

Also a copy of the guest card (???) and spoke with the leasing manager that filled out the guest card.

The handwriting cannot be checked against Casey's - the leasing manager fills it out as they talk to the potential renter.

Hopefully the leasing manager remembers the person, although they probably talk to dozens of people each week (my guess, not the reporters)

wedavis
08-06-2008, 07:48 PM
WKMG reporting that their report yesterday prompted the OCSO to go back to the apt complex for more investigation.

The building is 2863, in case there is any question.

Today, OCSO requested the original guest card of Zenaida Gonzalez (so I guess they did not have it as evidence from their initial visit - unbelievable!)

Also a copy of the guest card (???) and spoke with the leasing manager that filled out the guest card.

The handwriting cannot be checked against Casey's - the leasing manager fills it out as they talk to the potential renter.

Hopefully the leasing manager remembers the person, although they probably talk to dozens of people each week (my guess, not the reporters)


Do you guys have an aversion to reading affidavits or something. :)

Quote: "They (apt managers) gave me (the cop) a "guest card" completed by Zenaida Gonzalez which contained her cell phone number." No where does it say anything about that number being no good. And the cops talked to this ZG.

JBean
08-06-2008, 07:57 PM
Do you guys have an aversion to reading affidavits or something. :)

Quote: "They (apt managers) gave me (the cop) a "guest card" completed by Zenaida Gonzalez which contained her cell phone number." No where does it say anything about that number being no good. And the cops talked to this ZG.
It has been reported that it was no good which is where that notion is coming from:

>>Sources told Local 6 that when apartment managers tried to follow up with the woman after June 25, the phone number she gave was no longer valid.<<
http://www.local6.com/news/17112539/detail.html

wedavis
08-06-2008, 08:08 PM
It has been reported that it was no good which is where that notion is coming from:

>>Sources told Local 6 that when apartment managers tried to follow up with the woman after June 25, the phone number she gave was no longer valid.<<
http://www.local6.com/news/17112539/detail.html


Well all they need to do is call this ZG again and verify she went to the apts to check it out and the date. The call for fingerprints is just silly and unecessary...

Muzikman
08-06-2008, 08:15 PM
Affidavits can and are wrong at times. Police investigations are not infallible.

They have a statement from that ZG, but it has not been released so we do not know if they asked her the proper questions.

If they would have gone to the apartment a couple days after ZG or Casey visit, fingerprints could have helped to possibly prove that it was Casey. But at this point too many people have probably been through there.

CaliKid
08-06-2008, 08:17 PM
Well all they need to do is call this ZG again and verify she went to the apts to check it out and the date. The call for fingerprints is just silly and unecessary...

I don't know that it's unnecessary. I think LE wants to find out if Casey handled the card. If she did, that most likely means she either looked up the info on ZG to use as an alibi or...

LI_Mom
08-06-2008, 08:17 PM
On NG tonight, they're talking about the possibility that maybe Casey was the one who filled out the ZG card & looked at the apt. herself.


We discussed that same theory here today! :)


I wonder if there could be any surveillance tapes showing who was there & if they would still be available for investigators to check. Probably not. :(

I wonder if they did a careful check of the empty apt. to see if Casey's prints are found inside?

LI_Mom
08-06-2008, 08:19 PM
I don't know that it's unnecessary. I think LE wants to find out if Casey handled the card. If she did, that most likely means she either looked up the info on ZG to use as an alibi or...

Exactly!

distracted
08-06-2008, 08:43 PM
A reporter on Fox during Sheppard Smith's show today said that the employees of the Sawgrass Apts. had been shown photos of Casey and Caylee and nobody recognized seeing either of them on the premises.

TripleA
08-06-2008, 08:54 PM
Is that a large apt complex? And if it was right above the office, and ZG had been babysitting Caylee there, don't you think they would have recognized Casey and Caylee from seeing the baby dropped off and picked up all the time, right in front of the office?

MsRyber
08-06-2008, 09:28 PM
Do you guys have an aversion to reading affidavits or something. :)

Quote: "They (apt managers) gave me (the cop) a "guest card" completed by Zenaida Gonzalez which contained her cell phone number." No where does it say anything about that number being no good. And the cops talked to this ZG.


Exactly. I had put this in an earlier response:

MsRyber: "That doesn't change the fact that on page 4 and 5 of the affidavit, they confirm that they did speak with a ZG who filled out the card."

Only to be told that I was incorrect, lol.
Maybe Muzikman and JBean can elaborate on where we are going wrong.

Per JBean's "This is the same information I have seen Muzikman. If Gonzalez did say she filled out the card I would appreciate a link to that info so we can determine if the source is credible."

I would *hope* that the affidavit is credible. But, stranger things have happened. Can someone clarify? Did you guys see something different? If Casey set this whole thing up......wowzers.

TxRose
08-06-2008, 09:42 PM
So let me see if I have all of this straight...

1) We know that "someone" went to the Sawgrass Apts. on June 17 and filled out a guest card saying they were Zenaida Gonzalez. We know that police tracked down a Zenaida Gonzalez based upon the info on the guest card. But we don't know if the cell number listed was valid or if they tracked her down by using the other info on the card. The apt. complex is now saying they tried the number and it was not valid. The police affidavit only says they contacted a Zenaida Gonzalez that was "identified" from the Sawgrass Apt. guest card. That could mean they also found the phone number to be invalid and they used the address to find and contact her, or that the number was valid when they called it. I would say it is more likely it was invalid to begin with.

2) We do not know if the Zenaida G. they contacted ever actually went to the Sawgrass Apts. because that fact does not appear in the police affidavit. I have to believe police were smart enough to ask if she ever went to the Sawgrass and if she completed the card. I think it was simply omitted in the affidavit.

3) The police affidavit states that the manager and the maintenance man at the Sawgrass Apts. were shown pics of Caylee and didn't recognize her. There is no mention of whether they knew Casey or had ever seen her there. Cindy Anthony says Casey has friends at the Sawgrass Apts., so if that is true (cough cough)...perhaps the manager knows her or has seen her there. If management does know herm this was also omitted from the affidavit.

4) We do not know if Casey went to the Sawgrass Apts. posing as Zenaida and filled out the card. If she did pose as Zenaida, she could have looked up the info in the phone book and filled out the card. However, if she was someone the manager knows - then she would not have been successful at posing as someone else. If she did not pose as Zenaida...what are the odds that a "Zenaida Gonzalez" would have looked at those apartments even in the last year? She would have had to have access to the apartments records to get that info. Again, if she has friends there, that could be possible. So determining whether she was known by management or anyone else at those apartments is important.

So the two big questions I see are: Did the Zenaida that was contacted by the police actually go to the Sawgrass Apts. and fill out the card? Was Casey recognized/known by management or other tenants at the complex? To the best of my knowledge, the answers to these questions do not appear in the affidavit or from any other reliable source. Am I wrong?

wedavis
08-06-2008, 10:57 PM
So let me see if I have all of this straight...

1) We know that "someone" went to the Sawgrass Apts. on June 17 and filled out a guest card saying they were Zenaida Gonzalez. We know that police tracked down a Zenaida Gonzalez based upon the info on the guest card. But we don't know if the cell number listed was valid or if they tracked her down by using the other info on the card. The apt. complex is now saying they tried the number and it was not valid. The police affidavit only says they contacted a Zenaida Gonzalez that was "identified" from the Sawgrass Apt. guest card. That could mean they also found the phone number to be invalid and they used the address to find and contact her, or that the number was valid when they called it. I would say it is more likely it was invalid to begin with.

2) We do not know if the Zenaida G. they contacted ever actually went to the Sawgrass Apts. because that fact does not appear in the police affidavit. I have to believe police were smart enough to ask if she ever went to the Sawgrass and if she completed the card. I think it was simply omitted in the affidavit.

3) The police affidavit states that the manager and the maintenance man at the Sawgrass Apts. were shown pics of Caylee and didn't recognize her. There is no mention of whether they knew Casey or had ever seen her there. Cindy Anthony says Casey has friends at the Sawgrass Apts., so if that is true (cough cough)...perhaps the manager knows her or has seen her there. If management does know herm this was also omitted from the affidavit.

4) We do not know if Casey went to the Sawgrass Apts. posing as Zenaida and filled out the card. If she did pose as Zenaida, she could have looked up the info in the phone book and filled out the card. However, if she was someone the manager knows - then she would not have been successful at posing as someone else. If she did not pose as Zenaida...what are the odds that a "Zenaida Gonzalez" would have looked at those apartments even in the last year? She would have had to have access to the apartments records to get that info. Again, if she has friends there, that could be possible. So determining whether she was known by management or anyone else at those apartments is important.

So the two big questions I see are: Did the Zenaida that was contacted by the police actually go to the Sawgrass Apts. and fill out the card? Was Casey recognized/known by management or other tenants at the complex? To the best of my knowledge, the answers to these questions do not appear in the affidavit or from any other reliable source. Am I wrong?

See distracted's post. The managers do not recall seeing Casey.

Why would the police doubt that ZG had gone to the apartments for a tour? Who would ever think to question that? Who fills out phoney cards like that? I'm sure however, they told her why they were contacting her and how they they came upon her info. If she DIDN'T fill out the card, I'm sure she would have said something. In my opinion she really was there. It still is a very interesting coincidence. Maybe the more important question is which apartment was this ZG shown on June 17.

coltsgal
08-06-2008, 10:58 PM
exactly wedavis, I just said something like that in a different thread.

wedavis
08-07-2008, 03:13 AM
Another problem with the theory of Casey posing as ZFG is something that my sister told me. She was a leasing agent. She says in many complexes you have to provide a drivers license for the agent to copy before going on a tour as a safety precaution.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 03:33 AM
Exactly. I had put this in an earlier response:

MsRyber: "That doesn't change the fact that on page 4 and 5 of the affidavit, they confirm that they did speak with a ZG who filled out the card."

Only to be told that I was incorrect, lol.
Maybe Muzikman and JBean can elaborate on where we are going wrong.

Per JBean's "This is the same information I have seen Muzikman. If Gonzalez did say she filled out the card I would appreciate a link to that info so we can determine if the source is credible."

I would *hope* that the affidavit is credible. But, stranger things have happened. Can someone clarify? Did you guys see something different? If Casey set this whole thing up......wowzers.
She has her own blog and spoke up on not being that ZG. She is easy enough to find as she does several posts on her personal blog under her name. Oddly enough this ZG experienced a burgulary around the 9th of Jun.

impatientredhead
08-07-2008, 03:52 AM
Exactly. I had put this in an earlier response:

MsRyber: "That doesn't change the fact that on page 4 and 5 of the affidavit, they confirm that they did speak with a ZG who filled out the card."

Only to be told that I was incorrect, lol.
Maybe Muzikman and JBean can elaborate on where we are going wrong.

Per JBean's "This is the same information I have seen Muzikman. If Gonzalez did say she filled out the card I would appreciate a link to that info so we can determine if the source is credible."

I would *hope* that the affidavit is credible. But, stranger things have happened. Can someone clarify? Did you guys see something different? If Casey set this whole thing up......wowzers.

To quote the affidavit:

"While the defendant was with Detective Wells, I called the Zenaida Gonzalez I identified from the Sawgrass Apartments. She was open and responsive, and when asked, denied know Casey, Caylee, or babysitting for anyone at all. She agreed to meet with an investigator and give a sworn statement. This was later done by the OCSO Missing Persons Investigator Awilda McBryde and investigator Kari Roderick where she was shown photos of the defendant and Caylee and denied knowing either.

Once back in the <blacked out> parking lot, Sgt. Allen pulled up all of the Zenaida Gonzalez's in our DAVID system. The defendant could not identify any of them based on this. I had him pull up the photo of the Zenaida I had just spoke with and the defendant said she didn't recognize her."

Nowhere does it state that ZG verified she was at the apartments. Nowhere does it verify the number he contacted her at was the number on the card. Not saying those things are not true, just that they are not verified. It says he spoke to the ZG he identified. That might be the only ZG in the immediate area of appropriate age.

And again I have to ask if ZG was there and gave a statement HOW is the date discrepancy just now coming to light? Wouldn't she have said yes I looked at an apartment there but not on April 17th, it was June 17th.

SeriouslySearching
08-07-2008, 06:13 AM
Casey could have easily been the person to fill out that card and the person didn't recognize her two months later. I think the discrepancy on the time the incident took place (June 17th) is important. The reason it wasn't caught before is that no one questioned it and it slid through the cracks.

Isn't Ricardo's apartment directly across the street and how Casey knew of the Sawgrass apartments? I don't think Casey was looking for an apartment to live in there, but she was setting up the Nanny story all along. This goes back to my theory that Caylee was gone either late June15th or early on June 16th. The cover up started immediately with the entire family (except Lee), in my opinion.

passin_through
08-07-2008, 06:26 AM
Ricardo's home was across the street from another address Casey gave as Zanny's mothers apt. 301 N Hillside Dr (seniors only home) which was across from Ricardo's house at 232 Glenwood. Sawgrass Apts are 2863 S Conway Rd # 210 ...well, that's what the affidavit says anyhow.
http://ocso.com/LinkClick.aspx?link=MediaRelations%2f07.24.08_affi davit.pdf&tabid=547&mid=1935 page 3

SeriouslySearching
08-07-2008, 06:30 AM
Thanks, Passing! I guess I am getting mixed up with all the information. Appreciate the help here. :)

Busylady
08-07-2008, 06:51 AM
Earlier in the affidavit however, it indicates that guest card had ZG cell number on it. To me it indicates he called the number on the guest card after being provided that information from Sawgrass Apartments. In addition, we do not know when LE learned of the date discrepancy. We only know when the media got ahold of the information.


To quote the affidavit:

"While the defendant was with Detective Wells, I called the Zenaida Gonzalez I identified from the Sawgrass Apartments. She was open and responsive, and when asked, denied know Casey, Caylee, or babysitting for anyone at all. She agreed to meet with an investigator and give a sworn statement. This was later done by the OCSO Missing Persons Investigator Awilda McBryde and investigator Kari Roderick where she was shown photos of the defendant and Caylee and denied knowing either.

Once back in the <blacked out> parking lot, Sgt. Allen pulled up all of the Zenaida Gonzalez's in our DAVID system. The defendant could not identify any of them based on this. I had him pull up the photo of the Zenaida I had just spoke with and the defendant said she didn't recognize her."

Nowhere does it state that ZG verified she was at the apartments. Nowhere does it verify the number he contacted her at was the number on the card. Not saying those things are not true, just that they are not verified. It says he spoke to the ZG he identified. That might be the only ZG in the immediate area of appropriate age.

And again I have to ask if ZG was there and gave a statement HOW is the date discrepancy just now coming to light? Wouldn't she have said yes I looked at an apartment there but not on April 17th, it was June 17th.

TxRose
08-07-2008, 09:50 AM
To quote the affidavit:

Nowhere does it state that ZG verified she was at the apartments. Nowhere does it verify the number he contacted her at was the number on the card. Not saying those things are not true, just that they are not verified. It says he spoke to the ZG he identified. That might be the only ZG in the immediate area of appropriate age.

And again I have to ask if ZG was there and gave a statement HOW is the date discrepancy just now coming to light? Wouldn't she have said yes I looked at an apartment there but not on April 17th, it was June 17th.

That was my point...that we don't know what info LE used to find this ZG...just that it came from the card. Could be the phone number, might be the address, might be a birthdate. The big question to me still remains. Did ZG go to the Sawgrass Apts. and fill out the card herself?

TxRose
08-07-2008, 09:52 AM
.

Isn't Ricardo's apartment directly across the street and how Casey knew of the Sawgrass apartments?

If I am not mistaken, I believe it was near her boyfriend Tony's apartment.

Muzikman
08-07-2008, 10:43 AM
If I am not mistaken, I believe it was near her boyfriend Tony's apartment.

I live in the area. None of the 3 are really close - guessing about 5 miles apart from each other, different parts of town.

TxRose
08-07-2008, 10:52 AM
Yea - sorry, my error! I just checked the map on another thread and Tony's place isn't that close. I was going on memory of something that was said. But with the constantly changing "facts" in this case...it's hard to keep straight!

Hey - 2 quick questions. I think I saw somewhere on this site that someone said Casey knew the correct name of Z's mother (Gloria). I can't find where I saw it now. Is this true? Also - was it the Z that was interviewed based on the guest card that reported a burglary on June 9 or thereabouts?

wedavis
08-07-2008, 08:36 PM
Yea - sorry, my error! I just checked the map on another thread and Tony's place isn't that close. I was going on memory of something that was said. But with the constantly changing "facts" in this case...it's hard to keep straight!

Hey - 2 quick questions. I think I saw somewhere on this site that someone said Casey knew the correct name of Z's mother (Gloria). I can't find where I saw it now. Is this true? Also - was it the Z that was interviewed based on the guest card that reported a burglary on June 9 or thereabouts?

Someone on some thread says she found (maybe it was not_my_kids) proof of a Gloria and a Zenaida living togther in one of the states Casey mentioned. Just search Gloria>

I still see no link between the ZG that is a blogger and victim of a June 9 crime and the ZG in the interview that is coming out today and the topic of this thread.

Btw: Nancy Grace's "facts" rarely are...it's really getting on my nerves!

TxRose
08-07-2008, 09:34 PM
I hear you. And sometimes I get so mad at the reporters because they must not be following the case in much detail because there are always so many questions they fail to ask. For example, when interviewing ZG today...why not ask her if her mom's name is Gloria? Why not ask her why her phone number was not valid. Why not ask her why she didn't correct the police when they said she was at the apartments in April, not June. I am sure she isn't involved, but it would surehelp identify more of Casey's lies.

It is totally bugging me that we don't know how Casey got ZG's name. It is just too big of a coincidence to be a coincidence. LOL. Did I read somewhere that the apt. manager said she actually filled out the guest cards... that it was her handwriting? Maybe Casey was lurking in there and overheard the name. She might have assumed the woman lived there or was moving in and that she would make a good scapegoat.

Muzikman
08-07-2008, 10:02 PM
I emailed WKMG while the reporter was on his way to interview ZG, and told them to ask her if she had posted online ANYWHERE - Myspace, Facebook etc. that she was going to / had visited Sawgrass.


If she had, that's where Casey may have made the connection.

Don't know whether they asked or not, WKMG hasn't broadcast the whole interview yet, they're running more of it on the 11 PM news tonite.

She did say she had a Myspace page, but did not really know much about Facebook.

TxRose
08-07-2008, 10:17 PM
I am not sure if this link will work...but I found this myspace link on another forum that looks like it might belong to ZG:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=166182731

Chanler
08-07-2008, 11:21 PM
Hi, I'm not a cellphone expert, but I assume that a defunct number could still be traced to a specific person. I imagine that's how the correct Ms. Z.G. was identified.

I don't have a source, but I do remember that someone on another website said that Z. was checking apartment possibilities in that area.

tsanti
08-07-2008, 11:38 PM
I hear you. And sometimes I get so mad at the reporters because they must not be following the case in much detail because there are always so many questions they fail to ask. For example, when interviewing ZG today...why not ask her if her mom's name is Gloria? Why not ask her why her phone number was not valid. Why not ask her why she didn't correct the police when they said she was at the apartments in April, not June. I am sure she isn't involved, but it would surehelp identify more of Casey's lies.

It is totally bugging me that we don't know how Casey got ZG's name. It is just too big of a coincidence to be a coincidence. LOL. Did I read somewhere that the apt. manager said she actually filled out the guest cards... that it was her handwriting? Maybe Casey was lurking in there and overheard the name. She might have assumed the woman lived there or was moving in and that she would make a good scapegoat.

Another good question would have been to ask her if she has a hyphenated last name (Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzales) as Casey stated her nanny had.

LinasK
08-08-2008, 04:40 AM
Hi, I'm not a cellphone expert, but I assume that a defunct number could still be traced to a specific person. I imagine that's how the correct Ms. Z.G. was identified.

I don't have a source, but I do remember that someone on another website said that Z. was checking apartment possibilities in that area.

Hey, I went to a new dry cleaner about a week ago, and he had listed in his system the last name of the person who had my landline 15 years ago! Amazing, since I've had it for 12 years!

CheckDaFacts
08-08-2008, 04:52 AM
Exactly. I had put this in an earlier response:

MsRyber: "That doesn't change the fact that on page 4 and 5 of the affidavit, they confirm that they did speak with a ZG who filled out the card."

Only to be told that I was incorrect, lol.
Maybe Muzikman and JBean can elaborate on where we are going wrong.

Per JBean's "This is the same information I have seen Muzikman. If Gonzalez did say she filled out the card I would appreciate a link to that info so we can determine if the source is credible."

I would *hope* that the affidavit is credible. But, stranger things have happened. Can someone clarify? Did you guys see something different? If Casey set this whole thing up......wowzers.
Was there any questioning anywhere whether or not ZG was a victim of a burglary in and about Jun 9th, is there a possible police report on file if it did happen? If a burglary did occur was her name printed in a newspaper/blotter? Is this the same ZG that has a blog and spoke of not being the same ZG LE was looking for?

CheckDaFacts
08-08-2008, 04:56 AM
Hey, I went to a new dry cleaner about a week ago, and he had listed in his system the last name of the person who had my landline 15 years ago! Amazing, since I've had it for 12 years!
On the non-working cell number of ZG, could it possible ZG gave a bad number due to not wanting the complex to re-contact her because she was not impressed with the condition of the complex? Don't bother me!

TxRose
08-08-2008, 10:19 AM
On the non-working cell number of ZG, could it possible ZG gave a bad number due to not wanting the complex to re-contact her because she was not impressed with the condition of the complex? Don't bother me!

Yes - that is what I think and I believe I posted that on another thread. In her interview she stated that she and her boyfriend looked at all the apartments down that street. She sounded like they were just "looking", but not really intending to rent. She said they just looked nice and she wanted to see what they looked like - or something to that effect. I bet she gave a fake number so they wouldn't call her. I have done that before too!

Also - I agree on asking her in the interview about the hyphen thing! I left that one out, but I bet even LE could figure that out from records. I sure wish we could know all the details!

Chanler
08-08-2008, 02:31 PM
On the non-working cell number of ZG, could it possible ZG gave a bad number due to not wanting the complex to re-contact her because she was not impressed with the condition of the complex? Don't bother me!

Hi, CheckDaFacts, this seems like a plausible explanation.

I think that the entire ZG apartment visit story is sound and fury signifying not much of anything. The police went to check whether there was a long-time (1 1/2 year plus) resident of Sawgrass with ZG's name, as Casey has asserted. There was no such person. A ZG had visited the apartment building to look at a vacant place. Her fleeting presence in the building didn't confirm one iota of Casey's story, nor did it establish any conspiratorial relationship.

Of such coincidences, giant Grassy Knoll gang conspiracies evolve.

TxRose
08-08-2008, 03:01 PM
I agree Chanler. The whole issue is probably moot because the main issue was whether Casey's story could be corroborated and it can't. But it is still very curious and very coincidental that a woman by the same name just happened to visit that apt. complex in the same time frame. It might very well end up being just that - coincidence. We may never know unless Casey starts talking....(ha).

Chanler
08-08-2008, 03:17 PM
I agree Chanler. The whole issue is probably moot because the main issue was whether Casey's story could be corroborated and it can't. But it is still very curious and very coincidental that a woman by the same name just happened to visit that apt. complex in the same time frame. It might very well end up being just that - coincidence. We may never know unless Casey starts talking....(ha).

TxRose, your "(ha)" made me realize that it's quite likely that Casey will never speak up--and of course, no sane defense lawyer would ever put her on a witness stand.

Stoelly
08-08-2008, 03:25 PM
I am not sure if this link will work...but I found this myspace link on another forum that looks like it might belong to ZG:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=166182731

That looks like her - same fake blonde color hair

TxRose
08-08-2008, 03:39 PM
TxRose, your "(ha)" made me realize that it's quite likely that Casey will never speak up--and of course, no sane defense lawyer would ever put her on a witness stand.

I think it is very likely that even faced with overwhelming evidence, she would still continue to lie and try to cover up. Wouldn't that be awesome to witness a prosecutor interrogate her on the stand? Watch her squirm as she tries to explain all the lies. My guess is that she would do what she apparently always does when confronted...gets angry, uses profanity and hangs up or walks away. Talk to the hand. LOL

wedavis
08-11-2008, 09:45 PM
One thing that ZG said that might lead to a better theory connecting Casey to ZG:

ZG said she had also been searching for apartments up and down the street that Sawgrass is on. Could ZG and Casey have been at one of THOSE apartments at the same time?

That is, maybe the leasing agent asked ZG in front of Casey where else she had looked, or even directed her to Sawgrass (for whatever reason) and Casey overheard or came in contact with ZG's info at one of these apartment's leasing office?

I have also asked before. There still is no proof that ZG toured aprt #210 at Sawgrass is there?

TxRose
08-11-2008, 10:47 PM
One thing that ZG said that might lead to a better theory connecting Casey to ZG:

ZG said she had also been searching for apartments up and down the street that Sawgrass is on. Could ZG and Casey have been at one of THOSE apartments at the same time?

That is, maybe the leasing agent asked ZG in front of Casey where else she had looked, or even directed her to Sawgrass (for whatever reason) and Casey overheard or came in contact with ZG's info at one of these apartment's leasing office?

I have also asked before. There still is no proof that ZG toured aprt #210 at Sawgrass is there?

This is the way I understand it -
In the interview, ZG was insistent that she had visited a third floor apartment. When the reporter started to correct her...she said it was definitely the third floor. That the Sawgrass had some third floor apartments in the back. She seemed pretty sure of that. The 210 apt. only came into play because that is where Casey led investigators...saying she left Caylee in the stairwell to that apt. Mark F said on Greta that ZG visited that apt. - but he was incorrect. Honestly, I have heard him say a few things that weren't correct.

Of course as I see it...it doesn't matter what apt. ZG saw that day. She went there on 6/17 - which was after Casey said she had taken Caylee there.

lisa0477
08-11-2008, 11:56 PM
She could have just come up with the name from Jesus Ortiz mother (Zenaida Gonzalez Ortiz)right, just added the fernandez name in there.

wedavis
08-12-2008, 12:30 AM
This is the way I understand it -
In the interview, ZG was insistent that she had visited a third floor apartment. When the reporter started to correct her...she said it was definitely the third floor. That the Sawgrass had some third floor apartments in the back. She seemed pretty sure of that. The 210 apt. only came into play because that is where Casey led investigators...saying she left Caylee in the stairwell to that apt. Mark F said on Greta that ZG visited that apt. - but he was incorrect. Honestly, I have heard him say a few things that weren't correct.

Of course as I see it...it doesn't matter what apt. ZG saw that day. She went there on 6/17 - which was after Casey said she had taken Caylee there.

But the date was a big fat lie. Video (now common knowledge) proves Caylee disappeared after June 15th. This has been established since the very first couple of threads, geez. Try and read something before you post, will ya?

wedavis
08-12-2008, 12:33 AM
She could have just come up with the name from Jesus Ortiz mother (Zenaida Gonzalez Ortiz)right, just added the fernandez name in there.

That is a really interesting theory, can you prove that is her name? Surely, with all the media attention she just complained about someone would have mentioned this odd fact. AND I guarantee you a whole thread would have been started one that one fact alone! :)

my2cents
08-12-2008, 12:41 AM
But the date was a big fat lie. Video (now common knowledge) proves Caylee disappeared after July 15th. This has been established since the very first couple of threads, geez. Try and read something before you post, will ya?



She disappeared on or shortly after JUNE 15 (Father's Day). After the 16th if you believe Cindy and George :rolleyes:

wedavis
08-12-2008, 12:44 AM
She disappeared on or shortly after JUNE 15 (Father's Day). After the 16th if you believe Cindy and George :rolleyes:

HaHa. That is what I meant. I will edit my post. Thanks! :)

lisa0477
08-12-2008, 12:48 AM
That is a really interesting theory, can you prove that is her name? Surely, with all the media attention she just complained about someone would have mentioned this odd fact. AND I guarantee you a whole thread would have been started one that one fact alone! :)

Well, I was looking back at the thread about the players in this case and that is where I saw the names. It said that she was Jesus's mother. I figured it must have been talked about. I have been trying to catch up on it all. To me Casey seems to pull things from her butt if you know what I mean. It's a little bit of truth, with a little bit of lies. Sometimes if we look at what she has said and keep it simple then maybe we can figure it out better. She seems to just say things so quickly without thinking much.

my2cents
08-12-2008, 12:57 AM
HaHa. That is what I meant. I will edit my post. Thanks! :)

No problem. Just too many dates involved and if it gets mixed up, it makes it more confusing! :)

lisa0477
08-12-2008, 01:15 AM
Well, I was looking back at the thread about the players in this case and that is where I saw the names. It said that she was Jesus's mother. I figured it must have been talked about. I have been trying to catch up on it all. To me Casey seems to pull things from her butt if you know what I mean. It's a little bit of truth, with a little bit of lies. Sometimes if we look at what she has said and keep it simple then maybe we can figure it out better. She seems to just say things so quickly without thinking much.

I went back to try and find where the info was posted that this was Jesus O's mother and in the obit. it says her name is Olga. so if we can find out how they found out this maybe it would clear things up for me.

Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez
Zenaida Gonzalez Ortiz [ mother of JO ]
Jesus E. Ortiz Marque [ died auto accident May 8,2007]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67812 (post #25)

obit link
http://www.newcomernet.com/obituarie...1&Source=value

Jesus myspace page
http://www.myspace.com/xxupononexx

okiedokietoo
05-19-2010, 07:44 PM
Ok in case I slept through it - weren't we waiting for some sort of evidence about the registration card or something to be released?

Vera_75
05-19-2010, 08:00 PM
Casey was seeing a cop, on and off, during the time she murdered her daughter.

IMO Casey saw ZG's car, wrote down the license plate, and asked the boyfriend cop to run the plate and give her the information. Sure she could also have seen the siggy on the registration for Sawgrass apartments, but she got the details from him.

Remember, he got fired because he did not tell his superior that he knew Casey? I think he is the source of the ZG info.

okiedokietoo
05-19-2010, 08:12 PM
That does make sense. So guess we are waiting for trial for that info.

Gnatcatcher
05-19-2010, 08:50 PM
This old thread sure is full of mysteries. I must have been asleep in the beginning because I don't recall anything about the "other other other" ZG and the buglary. Well that's not true entirely, I remember hearing some little shred of something about a computer theft but I never read any details on that situation. Guess I"ll have to do a search (sigh, haaa). What WAS that all about... hmmm....

okiedokietoo
05-19-2010, 08:59 PM
Ok you all, I really wanted to post about this but but but the tornado sirens just went off here in Tulsa - so I am off of here for a few hours and will be back --- scary

LambChop
05-19-2010, 08:59 PM
I remember hearing Rob and Leonard talk about how KC was at the complex that day in Tony's Jeep, looking for her friends who lived there..and she was praked near the front lobby for some time, perhaps thinking about her next move..IDK..when Zenaida was leaving the complex after completing a tour. As ZFG walked toward her car, the apt. manager came out of the office and yelled "Zenaida! Zenaida!" as if she forgot something. That's when KC learned of her name, saw her go into her car..

The details are vague I just remember being told that story. Kind of silly, IMO, but just throwing it out there.

Also - did KC have any friends that worked at the office there? I can't recall but I remember that being a theory back in the day as well..

Since you are local you may have heard that story there in Orlando. I am sure there has been talk that outsiders just have not heard. Remember TL and KC were looking for apartments during that time so she could have seen ZG. Also I think there may be a link to the tattoo parlour. jmo

Gnatcatcher
05-19-2010, 09:00 PM
Ok you all, I really wanted to post about this but but but the tornado sirens just went off here in Tulsa - so I am off of here for a few hours and will be back --- scary

what the heck... GOD BE WITH YOU!!!!!!


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100519_11_0_Asomss627384

LambChop
05-19-2010, 09:01 PM
Ok you all, I really wanted to post about this but but but the tornado sirens just went off here in Tulsa - so I am off of here for a few hours and will be back --- scary

Ohhhhh. Hope you are okay. That is scary........

ShadowGal
05-19-2010, 09:03 PM
Ok you all, I really wanted to post about this but but but the tornado sirens just went off here in Tulsa - so I am off of here for a few hours and will be back --- scary

O/T but okiedokie, please check in and let us know you're safe

Purple Iris
05-19-2010, 09:33 PM
Casey was seeing a cop, on and off, during the time she murdered her daughter.

IMO Casey saw ZG's car, wrote down the license plate, and asked the boyfriend cop to run the plate and give her the information. Sure she could also have seen the siggy on the registration for Sawgrass apartments, but she got the details from him.

Remember, he got fired because he did not tell his superior that he knew Casey? I think he is the source of the ZG info.

That's how I always thought she came up with ZFG name and info also.
She was sitting outside, and called either Jesse or the cop that was fired and asked them to run the plate through the DAV or whatever it is called.

I always thought that it was "strange" that when she would talk to her parents and Lee from jail, that she always told them to run the name through that system, and, was very indignant about it.
Like she was authority on that system, etc.

okiedokietoo
05-19-2010, 11:16 PM
The sirens went off about 5 times and it all blew over yea

countzero
05-19-2010, 11:24 PM
If ICA had an LE friend run tags on anybody for her, LE would know about it and that friend would have his job in jeopardy. Which is why nothing was in any of the released docs. It didn't happen.

I don't believe any info on ZFG came from LE to ICA. Although I can't prove it, it is one of those coinkydinky situations to me.

notthatsmart
05-20-2010, 12:01 AM
I wonder if management there ever allows squatters? Were all the employees interviewed? Did they take pictures of the apartment to show it was clean and not lived in? I wonder if neighbors were interviewed. This seems to be a huge coincidence that Columbo would definately be raising an eyebrow to. Something just isn't right here. IMO

Melanie
05-20-2010, 12:11 AM
IMHO only - I personally feel that Caysey filled out the form herself (sloppily) to set up her story. Those guest cards are often laying around, and if there's no driver's license on it, then the chances are the apartment manager never saw the "guest". Where I live we have to leave a DL number before seeing an apartment.

Again - just my opinion.

Mel

noonie
05-20-2010, 12:34 AM
I think Casey was in the office and acted interested in wanting an apartment there and somehow got "Z" application info and sloppily redid it . She thought she was so above and beyond and would get away with all of this, but guess what, she is sitting in jail forever now!

kwmred
05-20-2010, 12:35 AM
IIRC, KC was definately at Sawgrass or in the vicinity according to her cell pings.

Harmony2
05-20-2010, 12:52 AM
This is what R. Grund had to say about ZG...


GRUND: I never saw her or spoke to her, but I did hear of her. I heard of her in April of `06, when Casey lost her regular baby-sitter. As I said, Jesse would watch her. I would watch her. She tried to get my high-school-age son to watch her, which meant I watched her because I have an office in my home.

Finally, one day when Casey came home from work to wait for Jesse and hang out with us, I kind of greeted her at the door with, What are we going to do about this baby-sitter thing? And she says, I found one. I have a nanny. Her name is Zanny, and I got her from J. Hopkins, who has a son named...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/22/ng.01.html

So the fact that a ZG showed up when she did at Sawgrass is freaky...

mitzi
05-20-2010, 01:01 AM
I remember hearing Rob and Leonard talk about how KC was at the complex that day in Tony's Jeep, looking for her friends who lived there..and she was praked near the front lobby for some time, perhaps thinking about her next move..IDK..when Zenaida was leaving the complex after completing a tour. As ZFG walked toward her car, the apt. manager came out of the office and yelled "Zenaida! Zenaida!" as if she forgot something. That's when KC learned of her name, saw her go into her car..

The details are vague I just remember being told that story. Kind of silly, IMO, but just throwing it out there.

Also - did KC have any friends that worked at the office there? I can't recall but I remember that being a theory back in the day as well..

Actually, IIRC, Lenny stated that the apt. manager came out of the office and yelled, "Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez"....kinda sounded like another one of Lenny's "stories" he would tell, without stating that they were Just His Opinion. Most people would yell "Ms. Gonzalez", so I think LP was telling tales. JMO :)

The World According
05-20-2010, 01:54 AM
I recall LP was telling Nancy how one day he and rob went over to Sawgrass themselves to ask some questions. The leasing agent relayed the story of how Ms.Gonzalez forgot her ID or to sign the document or something so he or she went running after her in the parking lot yelling Ms. Gonzales, Miss...Zenaida..you forgot something. He theorized that is where Casey overheard the name, and got the would be description of a Ford Focus, with NY plates. The car Zenaida had been in that day was a silver car like a focus, her son's...and guess where the plates were from...New York City.


The good ole' boys here in Texas would be calm, but say something like...GET A ROPE!!!

I hope the jury awards Mrs. Gonzalez and her children an OBSCENE AMOUNT OF MONEY. It was evil what she did to that poor family. I hope Morgan and Mitnick are able to add Cindy to the suit as well, so no one in that family profits further from any media deals.

If Baez thinks getting a predominately Hispanic jury that will bond with him is gonna save Casey, he better start praying now that they never learn of what Casey did to this single mother...this HISPANIC single mother!!! He seems to have a very poor understanding of this.

RainyGirl
05-20-2010, 03:09 AM
I wonder if management there ever allows squatters? Were all the employees interviewed? Did they take pictures of the apartment to show it was clean and not lived in? I wonder if neighbors were interviewed. This seems to be a huge coincidence that Columbo would definately be raising an eyebrow to. Something just isn't right here. IMO

bbm. Honestly?? Property managers "allowing squatters"??? My brother supervises a number of apartment communities and their on-site managers, and "squatters" are unheard of in "managed complexes" such as Sawgrass. Unoccupied units are always locked (dead-bolted) and an employee would have to be a fool to somehow provide a key to a squatter. IIRC, the apartment in question that KC chose to spin her Zanny Nanny lie was in fact a unit used to show prospective renters what the apartments looked like. It seems logical that any such "mystery squatter" would be discovered within days, if not sooner. No one was currently living at the unit in question at Sawgrass. No one. It was unoccupied and had been for months. Sawgrass was not an abandoned, run-down property. It was a managed community, and you can bet that if that unit was indeed shown to prospective renters it was minimally cleaned at least once a week and most likely viewed daily. Apartment managers are under pressure to get units rented asap and I would wager that the unit in question was probably part of their "tour" whenever a prospect came in....most likely daily. JMO.....

Leila
05-20-2010, 04:26 AM
Ok you all, I really wanted to post about this but but but the tornado sirens just went off here in Tulsa - so I am off of here for a few hours and will be back --- scary

Prayers for your safety!

Leila
05-20-2010, 04:37 AM
Black Chapel tattoo I think? There was a Zenaida in Brevard County who had her office broken into and computer stolen, it made me think at first that perhaps KC was attempting to steal Zenaida's identity, but then I thought she isn't bold enough to do a B&E. Now hear me out..I know she's stolen Amy's identity and she's accused of being a murderer - but I still view her criminal acts as cowardly. She was GIVEN access to Amy's stuff and trusted with it..(remember when she took money out of Amy's pants and told Amy she must have been sleepwalking when Amy couldn't find the money the next day?) so that's how she was able to steal the checks and the ID. She murdered a defenseless child - HER child - who trusted her.

I still don't see her as "brazen" enough to break into a building and steal a computer, but of course - I could be wrong. JMO.

That was so bizarre! To have an office break-in and the computer stolen of a woman by the name of Zenaida Gonzalas. This happened within a few days of the whole Caylee Anthony story breaking. The woman had a website........I think about child care, and she put a disclaimer on her website that she wasn't the Zenaida Gonzalas in the Caylee Anthony disappearance.

There was never any explanation from LE about that break-in. Did they catch the culprit? Was there any connection to Casey Anthony?

I don't think Casey would break into a building and steal a computer, but did she know the person or persons responsible for that theft and get the name from them?

seagull65
05-20-2010, 08:08 AM
right the weird thing was that RG stated that Casey had told him the ZFG name long before, so Casey didn't just learn of the name of this woman at Sawgrass that day

but the woman questioned by police, ZG, (actually ZCG if I recall correctly), was also there that same date Casey said she dropped Caylee off with her ZFG.

That ZG or her boyfriend according to many here had a Cast Iron Tattoo shop icon on their facebook or myspace IIRC (I can't remember if I saw it myself, I did see when that ZG or her boyfriend posted at the top of their page "you think it's bad now, just wait it will get worst (their spelling) for you".

And there was the ZG with the parenting blog. (I have seen it posted here that this person was the one whose office was broken into.) I think I remember this parenting blogger ZG posting on their page eventually that their name is fictitious and they are actually a guy. Did anyone else see that? Unfortunately many of the discussions on all this here got locked/yanked etc after the grand jury and it's hard to remember it all now.

No, I don't remember ever hearing anything further about the break-in either. I'd like to know what LE found out too.

seagull65
05-20-2010, 08:16 AM
I always wondered if maybe RG was mistaken and had not heard that name that early on? Then it would be interesting if Tony's jeep (with whoever was in it, Casey, Casey and Tony, whatever) was there at Sawgrass that day, the possibility that Casey and/or whoever got that woman's name on that date.

Then the question is, why would they have inserted the Fernandez when that ZG that was at Sawgrass on that date doesn't have that middle name and hadn't put it on the sign-in.

And supposedly Casey had at least mentioned the name "Zanny" to people before that date. Or had she, I wonder? Did they maybe just hear the name so much after that date that they thought they'd heard it before? IDK

Now if there really is a Cast Iron Tattoo connection, the question was, was Casey maybe in reality already acquainted with this person, had a meeting been arranged there for some reason

p.s. Of course the woman ZG was cleared by LE.

seagull65
05-20-2010, 08:21 AM
to complicate the theories, a contact in Casey's phone, Frank McK, in addition to the car parts scam that he was arrested for, was rumored to have been involved in an apartment deposit scam in the past, so many here wondered if there had been any scam of that sort going on (involving any apartment at Sawgrass)

Manny
05-20-2010, 08:31 AM
Didn't LE say that they checked the tapes and neither she nor Caylee appeared on the tape on the day Casey said she dropped of Caylee??
Something doesn't smell right sniff sniff

seagull65
05-20-2010, 08:56 AM
If Tony and Casey were there (we know he was looking for a new apartment, they looked at Crane's Landing etc, of course neither of them has said they looked at apartments at Sawgrass), but if they did, that would have put them in the apartment office, one or both of them could conceivably have seen ZG's info card if it had been left on the desk when the apartment manager took her to show her the apartment.

Then the question would still be why would Casey add the "Fernandez" to her name, and why give different names for roommates instead of the two girls' names ZG had put on the card (her daughters' names).

If Casey was there by herself, not with Tony to look at apartments, she wouldn't have had any reason to go into the manager's office, right? She had various friends still living there but none working in the office, right? (I'm trying to remember :) )

If Casey really had mentioned this name to friends and family before this date, then it would be hard to believe it was pure coincidence that this woman of this name was there on this date

seagull65
05-20-2010, 09:02 AM
was it only from Leonard that we ever heard that the jeep was there? I can't remember the source for that. Did Leonard say that ZG had mentioned seeing the jeep with NY plates?

I remember it being discussed here that there is/was a security camera facing from the office toward the gate and one facing from the office toward the pool IIRC. I don't remember ever hearing about footage of the Pontiac or the Jeep though, was anything ever released?

Marina2
05-20-2010, 09:08 AM
Didn't LE, very early in this case, show pics to a Sawgrass employee to see if he/she recognized any of them? I barely remember that one pic was recognized but it was said in the report that all the pics were of the same person. The person in the pics was never named. I think this may have been where we began to speculate that KC was ZG.

seagull65
05-20-2010, 09:10 AM
Didn't LE say that they checked the tapes and neither she nor Caylee appeared on the tape on the day Casey said she dropped of Caylee??
Something doesn't smell right sniff sniff

Just saw your post Manny, I think you're right, in that case no footage was released because there isn't any footage with Casey LOL :) Presumably if LE said this there are cameras everywhere in the complex even if she'd driven in a different way than she described/dropped off Caylee on the other side or whatever...

So the freakydink that remains is that Casey mentioned that date, a date when someone of that name did go there, and she knew this without having been there herself. OK. :)

seagull65
05-20-2010, 09:25 AM
I forget the details now, but remember the old discussions about the location of the ZG office that was broken into? Some folks here said the office was near Nicole G's, people wondering if Cindy or Casey had ever gone for counseling in this complex, etc. If anyone has links handy to those discussions please link them in :)

seagull65
05-20-2010, 09:36 AM
Ok you all, I really wanted to post about this but but but the tornado sirens just went off here in Tulsa - so I am off of here for a few hours and will be back --- scary

hope you all are fine, okiedokie (I'm an Okie, too, from OKC :) but living out of state now.) Take care and let us know how you are

nobull
05-20-2010, 09:39 AM
With all due respect, are we really going back to the "Zenaida is real" theory? Because that's been debunked SO many times via "Zanny" = Xani = Xanax, KC's computer searches on the ZG name, her statement at Universal that she was lying, etc.

Just Jayla
05-20-2010, 09:53 AM
Didn't LE say that they checked the tapes and neither she nor Caylee appeared on the tape on the day Casey said she dropped of Caylee??
Something doesn't smell right sniff sniff

Yes, but that would have been tape of the 9th of June, because at that point in time (they told KC they had viewed the tapes at the Universal interview with KC), they were going on the info that Caylee was last seen on the 9th.
I don't think we know if they went back and viewed the 16th.

believe09
05-20-2010, 09:59 AM
I am voting for Casey did it herself. Do we have any discovery that shows the card? We have Casey's letters from prison, right? Does the handwriting match?

Muzikman
05-20-2010, 10:00 AM
Ok in case I slept through it - weren't we waiting for some sort of evidence about the registration card or something to be released?

Wow, surprised to see this old chestnut, I think this may be the first thread I ever started here! :)

The registration card was released in discovery a long time ago.

Muzikman
05-20-2010, 10:03 AM
I am voting for Casey did it herself. Do we have any discovery that shows the card? We have Casey's letters from prison, right? Does the handwriting match?

It was filled out by the leasing agent, and it was determined that ZFG had been there.

LiveLaughLuv
05-20-2010, 10:09 AM
Is there a connection with Dante, AnnieD, VickyA into the sawgrass apartments?

This is the site for an individual called Vicky Aleman. She fits the characteristics of Zany the Nanny down to a 'T', including physical appearance, Sawgrass Apartments, sister with the same name, common friends with Casey, etc.

Her interview has NOT been released by LE.

Vicky is a friend of Annie's... who's interview has not been released by LE.

below is her myspace link...I cannot access it since I don't have an account there...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.vi...e&friendID=138228460


Danny Colamarino (aka: Danny Knight) – Owner of Cast Iron Tattoo Shop said Casey was a regular customer, yet she only had 2 tattoos. She got the 1st one at age 18 and 2nd at age 22.

Bobby Lee Williams – Tattoo Artist at Cast Iron Tattoos Shop. He designed the “Bella Vita” tatoo on Casey’s left shoulder - 7/3/08

Lance Charles White – Knows Casey because she frequents Cast Iron Tattoo

Matthew A Crisp – Community Mgr. at Cranes Landing Apartments & classmate. Graduated from Colonial High School.

Katie Sue Robinson – has same facebook friends in common w/Casey (Vicky Aleman and Matthew Crisp, etc). Lives in Sawgrass Apartments. She was unwilling to be interviewed by LE.

Victoria Aleman (aka: Vicky) – has friends in common w/Casey (Katie Sue Robinson, Matthew Crisp, etc.) Vicky lived at Sawgrass Apartments.

Jay Ferrell – friend of Katie Sue Robinson, Matthew Crisp and Victoria Aleman.
http://humbleopinionforum.net/cma-whos-who-list/acquantances/


also Vicky Aleman is on the witness list according to below link:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2009/11/29/review-michael-burnetts-work/


I wonder if in passing, through ICA's many, many friends...did they meet for a second???

I can't access Myspace, please let me know if this is on the subject or if it needs deletion....TIA


JMHO


Justice for Caylee

Harmony2
05-20-2010, 11:08 AM
Okay background information FYI

Tony had never been to Sawgrass so he and Casey did not go there looking for an apartment.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/25121233/Lazzaro-Interview-with-Law-Enforcement-101708
page 52

EE: Okay. Have you ever been to Sawgrass?
AL: No. I don’t even know where that is.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These are Casey's movement on June 17th. Page 7 http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18974626/detail.html


On June 17, 2008, the cellular activity for Casey Anthony’s cellular phone indicated movement to the south at approximately 1481 hours from the area of Semoran Blvd. and Aloma Ave. The cellular activitiy remained in the area of her parent’s residence located at 4937 Hopespring Drive, Orlando, Florida until approximately 1445 hours and briefly entered an area near Lee Vista Blvd. and T.P.C. Drive to the west. The cellular activity then moved west and remained in the area bordered by Alafaya Trail, Research Parkway and E. Colonial Drive until 1720 hours. The cellular activity then moved west and remained in the area near Anthony Lazzaro’s apartment located at **** Sutton Place, Orlando, FL until 0031 hours on June 18, 2008.



Page 52 and 57- ZG guest card on June 17th- no time was written in:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1080375/0825-Casey-Anthony-Documents-released-part-1


page 58 of that link has a statement by Henry Garcia referencing the 12 photographs shown to identify ZG
page 60 of that link provides information about apt 210 from Amanda Macklin

Harmony2
05-20-2010, 11:54 AM
This is what R. Grund had to say about ZG...



GRUND: I never saw her or spoke to her, but I did hear of her. I heard of her in April of `06, when Casey lost her regular baby-sitter. As I said, Jesse would watch her. I would watch her. She tried to get my high-school-age son to watch her, which meant I watched her because I have an office in my home.

Finally, one day when Casey came home from work to wait for Jesse and hang out with us, I kind of greeted her at the door with, What are we going to do about this baby-sitter thing? And she says, I found one. I have a nanny. Her name is Zanny, and I got her from J. Hopkins, who has a son named...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/22/ng.01.html

So the fact that a ZG showed up when she did at Sawgrass is freaky...

Bad form quoting myself but I wanted to add that Casey herself backs up R. Grund in her statement to LE.


Q And when did Lauren stop watching Zen.... ah your child?

A Um, maybe April of 2006

Q OK. And end of April 2006 roughly is when Zenaida started watching her?

A Yes.


page 77
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1080375/0825-Casey-Anthony-Documents-released-part-1

Chiquita71
05-20-2010, 02:40 PM
Hello WS :)

SP said Cindy and Casey told her about someone who was watching/babysitting Caylee but SP thought they were saying, "Danny." Finally, she asked and was corrected with the name "Zanny."

RG: Um, the thing that struck me when I was reading those notes about her story about Zenaida, it hasn't changed word for word since April of '06. It's still exactly the same story. Um, when she told it to us, I think I told you on the phone, ah, from the end of her, her babysitter at that point was Lauren Gibbs.
LE: Um-hum
RG: Lauren suddenly couldn't do it anymore. I think she was going back to school. Now she has no babysitter for Caylee and she's supposedly working for Kodak at Universal.
LE: And this is when again?
RG: This is uh, this is March, April and part of May '06
LE: Okay
(skip)
RG: ...and when she finally said she found someone as I told you on the phone it was really odd, rather than just saying yeah I got that worked out, "Oh, yeah I've found this lady eh, Zenaida Gonzalez and she, she watches my friend Jeffery Hopkins son Zachary. Zachary and Caylee play together and they, they love to be together so this will work out great."

OCSO Supplemental Report
I asked Mr. Garcia if he could produce the original guest card. He retrieved the guest card from an office file. I asked him to examine the document and asked him if he was sure he filled out the form and if he was sure of the date of the Ms. Gonzalez visit. Mr. Garcia told me he filled out the form and confirmed he recognized his handwriting. Mr. Garcia wrote, "I am sure of her date of visit because out standard operating procedure is for us to fill out the guest card in the presence of the visitor. I wrote the names of Jasmine and Michelle on the form because Ms. Gonzalez told me her children would be living here with her."

Mr. Garcia offered, after examining the guest card, he believed he conducted the visitation with Ms. Gonzalez in Spanish. He told me he believed the visitation was conducted in Spanish because he wrote the names of the children in Spanish on the visitation document.
(skip)
On August 7, 2008 I met with Detective Corporal Melich and briefed him regarding the aforementioned detail. He confirmed sworn testimony had already been obtained from Ms. Gonzalez regarding the visitation to the Sawgrass complex.
(skip)
Ms. Macklin continued her written statement by writing, "I was questioned as to whether or not I recognized the name of Zenaida Gonzalez, which I do not. I checked for her information in our database(sic)and found she had inquired about an apartment at Sawgrass apartments in June 2008. She had expressed interest in a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment for herself and 'Jasmine and Michelle.' I informed the detective of this and let him know we lost contact with her because her telephone number had been disconnected.
(end)

We have SP/Cindy, and RG saying Casey spoke of "Zenaida, Zanny" as someone who she had to watch Caylee. RG says her story hasn't changed one bit from 2006. Casey was using this name before Sawgrass.

LP says(if taken as fact which I don't know if it is fact). (paraphrased) "Casey went to Sawgrass in Tony's Jeep(green) the same day she met with M. Crisp at the apartment complex where he works." I never read where he said the manager called out ZG's name and Casey heard it, fyi not to make a point.

What are the chances that Casey would be using the name Zenaida F. Gonzalez as a nanny(having made it up)and then staking out an apartment complex and hearing that name called, or finding the card with the same name she "needs"? Slim to none. Truly, this is the part of the case where I am willing to believe there is something critical to this case that we are not privy to?

I know all of this has been covered in the "zenaida" thread(s) but I am looking at this straight from the Sawgrass perspective. With the LE statements above it is clear that ZG did visit and fill out(had it filled for her)a visitor card. I remember Cindy at the Morgan depo being so adamant regarding that card and the fact that the last name seemed to be spelled different than the name: "Gonzalez" that Casey was giving in her statements to LE or what she had told Cindy, George and Lee.

I don't think ZG is Casey's ZFG(Casey was very clear there was a "hyphen Fernandez") but I think we have our extreme premeditation here. I listed this in our "coincidences" thread but I am having to come to the personal conclusion that this was no coincidence. Did Casey stalk ZG? Did she figure that she had been using this name, had decided to kill Caylee and was ready with a story to "pin" it on "A Zanny?" She picked a Zenaida and followed her around to get "real" details so she could make statements like "she's in the system, check" with such confidence? And, all the other details regarding Zanny that never go anywhere or check out completely.

I'm not the first to speculate on this, it's just coming to that for me now. I think. :waitasec:

Zanny the babysitter never existed. Cindy may have been aware of that name before Caylee went missing, but WSers put it together that Cindy tried calling the numbers Casey gave for the nanny and found out for herself there was no Zanny. Casey used the nanny as a cover story for a long time, and when she decided to kill her daughter she premeditated blaming it on the "nanny."

I was on the fence about premeditation(how long? minutes, days, hours) because the longer the premeditation, the more cruel I must see Casey. Is this why the DP is on the table? Is this what LE and the SA know?

IMHO, Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez was created when RG/Jesse/the Grunds would not babysit Caylee. Casey had gone from Lauren to the Grunds but she had "used up" the Grunds. When RG asked what she was going to do, she created ZFG, that's why RG found the story odd-with all the details-he was listening to a Casey fabrication. WSers information shows Cindy did start watching Caylee most of the time after the Grunds, that is why the tension was growing in the house: Casey having to "work" so much and so late(!!) and Cindy feeling taken advantage of. The times when Casey could take Caylee(like to RM's), but Casey wanted Cindy to think she was at work: Casey used Zanny the nanny with Cindy. And, Cindy passed the stories of a Zanny to SP who thought she was saying "Danny."

"Hints," that is why they were the three that could say they heard of Zanny before Caylee went missing. Since Casey already had that idea set up with Cindy, she went looking for information on "Zenaidas" for when she murdered Caylee. IIRC, Casey refuses to clear ZG and has a counter suit against her. Although, we know ZG from Sawgrass does not fit the description of Zanny the Nanny as Cindy pointed out to everyone(in a tactless and ignorant way) at the Morgan and Morgan depo. In stalking ZG for info, she was probably not meaning to actually pin the murder on any one actual person but now she is pinned in to the lies she has been caught in and the story makes no sense.

Where does JBP fit into this? Another story? Proof of premeditation that there were/are several stories ready made to explain the (surprise) kidnapping/disappearance/murder of Caylee?

...JS...(just sleuthing)

thedeviledadvocate
05-20-2010, 06:59 PM
All these things about the Sawgrass Apartments and ZFG are interesting to look over again. Maybe Zanny does exist and the reason the defense does not want to give the state their witness list is because she is on it. Or maybe KC is really this criminal mastermind with psychic powers that told her to fabricate a story about Zanny in April of 2006, and then she could totally twist the story when a real ZG showed up and filled out a registration card at the Sawgrass apartments. Using her criminal mastermind abilities she left no forensic evidence that she had ever been near the site of Caylees remains. Occasionally her criminal mastermind abilities totally fail her and she becomes just plain foolish. She steals AH’s checks and commits several counts of forgery, while being videotaped. Allegedly she placed her childs remains less than a half mile from her home, within a few feet of the woodline. She let her car run out of gas and get towed with the alleged smell of death in the trunk. She said that ZG was not ZFG and she countersued her. She lied to police then admitted she lied to police. Her criminal mastermind abilities failed her quite often. Yet, she allegedly committed a premeditated murder without leaving a clue as to how she did it (duct tape maybe, but debatable), when she did it, why (debatable) she did it, or where she did it. Then just to add to the mix, we have characters that have somehow gotten involved that are, let’s just say, interesting. To name a few, we have LP the cowboy, JW the baker actor, CA the boss, GA the suicidal spouse, LA the code whisperer, MD the blogger with lunch, CSI Bloise the bench note tosser, RC the derelict in duty dude, RK mr. inconsistency, RM the win her over chloroform kid, a couple of jailhouse snitches, Otownsfinest, and of course, JB the first Hispanic lawyer to try a high profile case of this magnitude in the state of Florida. I am sure I have missed quite a few characters that are interesting, but the list is long. I’m sure I should have mentioned AL the sometimes foulmouthed teardropper, and CM the soon to be retired. I have to totally agree with one of our posters who says

You just can’t make this stuff up.

LambChop
05-20-2010, 07:13 PM
You just can’t make this stuff up. Snipped

KC did not seem to have a problem.

okiedokietoo
05-20-2010, 07:15 PM
(respectively snipped by me)
thedeviledadvocate
post # 145


LA the code whisperer

That made me laugh so hard - that is too funny
Thank You

Bittiness39
05-20-2010, 07:17 PM
All these things about the Sawgrass Apartments and ZFG are interesting to look over again. Maybe Zanny does exist and the reason the defense does not want to give the state their witness list is because she is on it. Or maybe KC is really this criminal mastermind with psychic powers that told her to fabricate a story about Zanny in April of 2006, and then she could totally twist the story when a real ZG showed up and filled out a registration card at the Sawgrass apartments. Using her criminal mastermind abilities she left no forensic evidence that she had ever been near the site of Caylees remains. Occasionally her criminal mastermind abilities totally fail her and she becomes just plain foolish. She steals AH’s checks and commits several counts of forgery, while being videotaped. Allegedly she placed her childs remains less than a half mile from her home, within a few feet of the woodline. She let her car run out of gas and get towed with the alleged smell of death in the trunk. She said that ZG was not ZFG and she countersued her. She lied to police then admitted she lied to police. Her criminal mastermind abilities failed her quite often. Yet, she allegedly committed a premeditated murder without leaving a clue as to how she did it (duct tape maybe, but debatable), when she did it, why (debatable) she did it, or where she did it. Then just to add to the mix, we have characters that have somehow gotten involved that are, let’s just say, interesting. To name a few, we have LP the cowboy, JW the baker actor, CA the boss, GA the suicidal spouse, LA the code whisperer, MD the blogger with lunch, CSI Bloise the bench note tosser, RC the derelict in duty dude, RK mr. inconsistency, RM the win her over chloroform kid, a couple of jailhouse snitches, Otownsfinest, and of course, JB the first Hispanic lawyer to try a high profile case of this magnitude in the state of Florida. I am sure I have missed quite a few characters that are interesting, but the list is long. I’m sure I should have mentioned AL the sometimes foulmouthed teardropper, and CM the soon to be retired. I have to totally agree with one of our posters who says

You just can’t make this stuff up.

This case and its cast of characters is downright bizarre...I will grant you that. But when you really start stripping away the fat and the look over there misdirection...it really is a simple case.
KC stated in a written and an oral statement to LE: I dropped Caylee off at the SawGrass where Zanny lives. Zanny who has a friend named Raquel Farrell that works at TGIF that no one can find. Zanny has a mother no one can find that never lived where KC claimed she did. Zanny whom she met through J Hopkins (just not the one she went to school with...a wholely separate one that she met through her fictious ongoing job after she abandoned her real one) who has a son named Zachary that Zanny was also babysitting...a son who along with this other JHopkins no one can find.
The real question and reason for the weirdness...is how exactly did KC center in on the name ZFG...and why was she allegedly creating a profile for a fictious ZFG on her computer?

Honestly, if this were a case of the ---- who knew too much (meaning KC) really, why would such nebulous types kidnap and kill her daughter....??? why not just remove the source of the fungus...KC? This is a simple story when you really start to break it down...jmo.

But I agree, I have never seen so much evidence against so worthless a client as KC (Scott Peterson's prosecutors would have salivated over as much...and he sits on death row) and yet so many twists and turns...about someone too lazy to graduate from highschool when given the chance...much less clean her room.

Oh, as far as I know, KC never actually told LE the other JBP story...so we sit with Zanny lives at the SawGrass and I dropped off Caylee at the base of the stairs of Zanny's apartment. Does anyone else think it is odd that zanny would steal Caylee because KC was a bad mother...and kill her...instead of raising Caylee...with all of that money Zanny has...and giving Caylee a life she could not with her so obviously inept and selfish and immature mother? Why steal her, Caylee, to kill her? Makes not one bit of sense. Or maybe KC was "involved" in something and they killed Caylee to keep KC quiet? Why not just kill KC...? Duh.

Case is simple: KC is guilty. The rest is just window dressing for (1) peeps who don't believe women kill (2) peeps who have a sociopath in their own family and refuse to acknowledge it (3) peeps who just want their to be this huge movie like twist (4) peeps who haven't looked at the totality of the evidence against KC.

But the SawGrass Zanny thing is very weird. It just doesn't do much for me...other than to go, well that's odd...but 31 one days and a mother who was ugly coping around grabbing other girls breasts and getting freedom tattoos.

LambChop
05-20-2010, 07:28 PM
Something that makes no sense with ZFG living at Sawgrass or any where else for that matter. If ZFG was JH's girlfriend at one time and she watched his son Zach prior to her watching Caylee (for 1 1/2 to 2 years) and Zach was only a little bit older than Caylee how did JH come to having a child with no wife. At the time KC claimed to have known ZFG for 4 years and was introduced to her through JH. We know the story is untrue but if we were to research the facts according to KC somehow it makes no sense. So this child was born without a mother?????? And was JH dating a teen at the time who somehow became this expert in childcare?????

Harmony2
05-20-2010, 08:29 PM
Honestly, I believe the Cast Iron Tattoo shop and the people connected to it are at the core of this mystery. Many of them were friends with ZG's boyfriend on myspace. Do we know when S. Daly and his brother started working there? Casey may have heard ZG's name while getting a tattoo, or while visiting, and may have also heard about the apartment hunt that way. I wish I was a detective on this case LOL and could ask questions of the main players that were overlooked at the time of their interviews.

KeyboardCat
05-20-2010, 09:03 PM
To me, the guest card Garcia filled out pretty clearly says 06/17. I don't really understand how that six was ever confused with a four.

The names Jasmin and Michelle popped out at me as being familiar with the ZFG story she kept regurgitating to police. Where those the names of other children she'd supposedly watched?

And what about that traffic ticket that was issued to a Zenaida Gonzales around that time frame also?

Oh, I don't believe in coincidences of that magnitude. I guess its possible Casey did has some degree of help in at least laying a foundation (still yet made of sand) for this story of hers she's slinging.

Hot Dogs
07-16-2011, 06:39 PM
Bump for various information.

seagull65
11-27-2011, 05:53 PM
Wow, surprised to see this old chestnut, I think this may be the first thread I ever started here! :)

The registration card was released in discovery a long time ago.

I think most people had seen the card by this stage in the thread, MM, lol, they were just asking for it to be linked again, and discussing the OSCO claim that video from the complex proved Casey, AL, etc had not been at Sawgrass. (We knew OCSO told Casey in the interviews that video supposedly proved she hadn't been there, and media had repeated this a lot as fact, but we'd never seen any such video come out.) Of course in the end YM admitted on the stand that there hadn't been any such video.

I came to this thread looking for a link to the Sawgrass visitor reg card again today just to look at it again because I hadn't seen it in so long, though I can picture it in my mind still lol. :) Was perusing the old discussions :) have a nice day

RR0004
11-27-2011, 05:58 PM
I think most people had seen the card by this stage in the thread, MM, lol, they were just asking for it to be linked again, and discussing the OSCO claim that video from the complex proved Casey, AL, etc had not been at Sawgrass. (We knew OCSO told Casey in the interviews that video supposedly proved she hadn't been there, and media had repeated this a lot as fact, but we'd never seen any such video come out.) Of course in the end YM admitted on the stand that there hadn't been any such video.

I came to this thread looking for a link to the Sawgrass visitor reg card again today just to look at it again because I hadn't seen it in so long, though I can picture it in my mind still lol. :) Was perusing the old discussions :) have a nice day
Missing you Seagull!!!!!!!!!

seagull65
11-27-2011, 06:08 PM
To me, the guest card Garcia filled out pretty clearly says 06/17. I don't really understand how that six was ever confused with a four.

The names Jasmin and Michelle popped out at me as being familiar with the ZFG story she kept regurgitating to police. Where those the names of other children she'd supposedly watched?

And what about that traffic ticket that was issued to a Zenaida Gonzales around that time frame also?

Oh, I don't believe in coincidences of that magnitude. I guess its possible Casey did has some degree of help in at least laying a foundation (still yet made of sand) for this story of hers she's slinging.

love your keyboard cat! how cute! :)

Casey didn't give the names Jasmin and Michelle, but those names came out in discovery when the card was released in evidence. In Casey's statements she had said ZFG had no children, had roommates named Raquel F and Jennifer R, a sister Samantha, mother possibly Gloria, father possibly Victor, iirc. The description didn't seem to correspond to this woman ZCG except that this woman was at Sawgrass on the 17th, and the model of car Casey said the nanny had was the same (silver Ford Focus iirc), and of course Casey claimed to have dropped Caylee off to Zanny the nanny there.

Children's names given in Casey's statements iirc were Zachary H (supposedly Jeffrey M. H's son) and Annabelle (daughter of co-worker Juliette L iirc.) both of whom the "nanny" ZFG supposedly babysat at times along with Caylee. She described the nanny as 25 years old, a former event planner, former seasonal employee at Universal Studios theme park, college grad. Said she always used both surnames hypenated, Fz-Gz, and went by "Zanny".

seagull65
11-27-2011, 06:13 PM
Thank you RR0004!!!!! It's so nice seeing you pop up!!!!!! :) :) :) :)

Horace Finklestein
11-27-2011, 06:21 PM
love your keyboard cat! how cute! :)

Casey didn't give the names Jasmin and Michelle, but those names came out in discovery when the card was released in evidence. In Casey's statements she had said ZFG had no children, had roommates named Raquel F and Jennifer R, a sister Samantha, mother possibly Gloria, father possibly Victor, iirc. The description didn't seem to correspond to this woman ZCG except that this woman was at Sawgrass on the 17th, and the model of car Casey said the nanny had was the same (silver Ford Focus iirc), and of course Casey claimed to have dropped Caylee off to Zanny the nanny there.

Children's names given in Casey's statements iirc were Zachary H (supposedly Jeffrey M. H's son) and Annabelle (daughter of co-worker Juliette L iirc.) both of whom the "nanny" ZFG supposedly babysat at times along with Caylee. She described the nanny as 25 years old, a former event planner, former seasonal employee at Universal Studios theme park, college grad. Said she always used both surnames hypenated, Fz-Gz, and went by "Zanny".

I assume you know how FCA mixes truth in with her lies...this is pretty common knowledge.

seagull65
11-27-2011, 06:47 PM
All these things about the Sawgrass Apartments and ZFG are interesting to look over again. Maybe Zanny does exist and the reason the defense does not want to give the state their witness list is because she is on it. Or maybe KC is really this criminal mastermind with psychic powers that told her to fabricate a story about Zanny in April of 2006, and then she could totally twist the story when a real ZG showed up and filled out a registration card at the Sawgrass apartments. Using her criminal mastermind abilities she left no forensic evidence that she had ever been near the site of Caylees remains. Occasionally her criminal mastermind abilities totally fail her and she becomes just plain foolish. She steals AH’s checks and commits several counts of forgery, while being videotaped. Allegedly she placed her childs remains less than a half mile from her home, within a few feet of the woodline. She let her car run out of gas and get towed with the alleged smell of death in the trunk. She said that ZG was not ZFG and she countersued her. She lied to police then admitted she lied to police. Her criminal mastermind abilities failed her quite often. Yet, she allegedly committed a premeditated murder without leaving a clue as to how she did it (duct tape maybe, but debatable), when she did it, why (debatable) she did it, or where she did it. Then just to add to the mix, we have characters that have somehow gotten involved that are, let’s just say, interesting. To name a few, we have LP the cowboy, JW the baker actor, CA the boss, GA the suicidal spouse, LA the code whisperer, MD the blogger with lunch, CSI Bloise the bench note tosser, RC the derelict in duty dude, RK mr. inconsistency, RM the win her over chloroform kid, a couple of jailhouse snitches, Otownsfinest, and of course, JB the first Hispanic lawyer to try a high profile case of this magnitude in the state of Florida. I am sure I have missed quite a few characters that are interesting, but the list is long. I’m sure I should have mentioned AL the sometimes foulmouthed teardropper, and CM the soon to be retired. I have to totally agree with one of our posters who says

You just can’t make this stuff up.

just had to bump up this great old post :)

seagull65
11-27-2011, 06:49 PM
I assume you know how FCA mixes truth in with her lies...this is pretty common knowledge.

I know this was a popular theory to explain her statements lol

(and one espoused by the defense in the end).

Horace Finklestein
11-27-2011, 06:55 PM
I know this was a popular theory to explain her statements lol

(and one espoused by the defense in the end).

And therefore by you, no doubt.

MissJames
11-27-2011, 06:58 PM
love your keyboard cat! how cute! :)

Casey didn't give the names Jasmin and Michelle, but those names came out in discovery when the card was released in evidence. In Casey's statements she had said ZFG had no children, had roommates named Raquel F and Jennifer R, a sister Samantha, mother possibly Gloria, father possibly Victor, iirc. The description didn't seem to correspond to this woman ZCG except that this woman was at Sawgrass on the 17th, and the model of car Casey said the nanny had was the same (silver Ford Focus iirc), and of course Casey claimed to have dropped Caylee off to Zanny the nanny there.

Children's names given in Casey's statements iirc were Zachary H (supposedly Jeffrey M. H's son) and Annabelle (daughter of co-worker Juliette L iirc.) both of whom the "nanny" ZFG supposedly babysat at times along with Caylee. She described the nanny as 25 years old, a former event planner, former seasonal employee at Universal Studios theme park, college grad. Said she always used both surnames hypenated, Fz-Gz, and went by "Zanny".

The posts you're quoting (answering) were written 18 months ago. :waitasec:

I was overcome with joy thinking Muzikman was back :banghead:

seagull65
11-27-2011, 07:07 PM
besides all the lingering questions about similarities between some of Casey's acquaintances/friends and the "nanny", the Sawgrass connection, (and Cast Iron, Sawgrass, Fusian, etc, the crowds overlapped a lot).... the question of why Casey would have created a story about said nanny back in 2006 and then coincidentally a woman with the same name (except Fz) really was at Sawgrass on the date Casey claimed to have last dropped Caylee off there....and now knowing since the trial that there wasn't in fact video of Sawgrass on that date, (or LE at least now said there wasn't) so supposedly there really hadn't been any video proving Casey hadn't been there or who was or wasn't there...not to mention the weird similarities between Casey's zanny story and KMTC's "other Casey",.....besides all these lingering weirdnesses, there was also a ZG who was a grad of the hospitality college at one of the universities there (hint: same college/school mentioned by Jesse G early in the case when he said the head of that school wanted to help in whatever way possible with the search, which we all puzzled over at the time....) Anyway, there was one of the ZGs in the area, (see Zan not Zen) who fit the details of Casey's statement and description much more closely than ZCG (event planner, right age, grad of local university in event planning, some of the family names, phys descrip to a tee, etc.) Whether Casey just saw this person's pictures and details on the internet or knew of her through friends or ever knew this person in any capacity or didn't and it was just coincidence, who knows. Of course the question always remained, why invent a story back in 2006 that would match up with strange coincidences on June 17 2008. Still weird even at this late date.

seagull65
11-27-2011, 07:14 PM
The posts you're quoting (answering) were written 18 months ago. :waitasec:

I was overcome with joy thinking Muzikman was back :banghead:

Yes, was just looking at this age old thread (and good thread) due to the ZCG defamation suit. My posts were just in response to some old comments which I found that had been made to my own posts and someone else's at a time when I wasn't on the thread (kind of snarky posts)... :) Then I was just revisiting the subject from the point where we stand now. :)

seagull65
11-27-2011, 07:43 PM
And therefore by you, no doubt.

No, I'm not 100% convinced, there were so many unanswered questions. I always wondered why Casey would have started telling the Zanny story way back in 2006, plus the many unanswered questions and coincidences, plus of course we heard testimony from YM in the trial stating that there had supposedly NOT been any security video of Sawgrass on that date after all (during the case he'd maintained to Casey A that they had video of the complex on that date and she wasn't on it). So I always wondered whether there weren't a few more shreds of truth to the stories than ever got pinned down, I find it still a bit mysterious even now. Imagine if he was just trying to bluff her out by saying he had video of the complex and she wasn't there on that date, but she actually was. Imagine if you'd been there but the police were telling you they had video that you weren't there. What would you think? I don't know if it's possible that she could have gone by there at any time on that date, or who else in the story could have. We'd have to look closely at her pings all over again. Of course they didn't track pings on everyone. And in the end, pings only show where your phone is of course.. But I know a lot of us basically ruled out her having been at Sawgrass because of the detectives' comments during her police interviews regarding the video.

Tulessa
11-27-2011, 09:13 PM
And therefore by you, no doubt.

Be Nice. I will need you in April. :)

I am still so sick over this entire trial that it makes me wanna puke. :(

atthelake
11-27-2011, 10:24 PM
besides all the lingering questions about similarities between some of Casey's acquaintances/friends and the "nanny", the Sawgrass connection, (and Cast Iron, Sawgrass, Fusian, etc, the crowds overlapped a lot).... the question of why Casey would have created a story about said nanny back in 2006 and then coincidentally a woman with the same name (except Fz) really was at Sawgrass on the date Casey claimed to have last dropped Caylee off there....and now knowing since the trial that there wasn't in fact video of Sawgrass on that date, (or LE at least now said there wasn't) so supposedly there really hadn't been any video proving Casey hadn't been there or who was or wasn't there...not to mention the weird similarities between Casey's zanny story and KMTC's "other Casey",.....besides all these lingering weirdnesses, there was also a ZG who was a grad of the hospitality college at one of the universities there (hint: same college/school mentioned by Jesse G early in the case when he said the head of that school wanted to help in whatever way possible with the search, which we all puzzled over at the time....) Anyway, there was one of the ZGs in the area, (see Zan not Zen) who fit the details of Casey's statement and description much more closely than ZCG (event planner, right age, grad of local university in event planning, some of the family names, phys descrip to a tee, etc.) Whether Casey just saw this person's pictures and details on the internet or knew of her through friends or ever knew this person in any capacity or didn't and it was just coincidence, who knows. Of course the question always remained, why invent a story back in 2006 that would match up with strange coincidences on June 17 2008. Still weird even at this late date.

I am DIZZY! Code word - Lake!!!!!!!!!



I am

Intermezzo
11-27-2011, 10:37 PM
I think JA said it best in his book
It amazed him how the Lies of one(Casey) wreaked havoc on the normal lives of others.

Horace Finklestein
11-27-2011, 10:53 PM
No, I'm not 100% convinced, there were so many unanswered questions. I always wondered why Casey would have started telling the Zanny story way back in 2006, plus the many unanswered questions and coincidences, plus of course we heard testimony from YM in the trial stating that there had supposedly NOT been any security video of Sawgrass on that date after all (during the case he'd maintained to Casey A that they had video of the complex on that date and she wasn't on it). So I always wondered whether there weren't a few more shreds of truth to the stories than ever got pinned down, I find it still a bit mysterious even now. Imagine if he was just trying to bluff her out by saying he had video of the complex and she wasn't there on that date, but she actually was. Imagine if you'd been there but the police were telling you they had video that you weren't there. What would you think? I don't know if it's possible that she could have gone by there at any time on that date, or who else in the story could have. We'd have to look closely at her pings all over again. Of course they didn't track pings on everyone. And in the end, pings only show where your phone is of course.. But I know a lot of us basically ruled out her having been at Sawgrass because of the detectives' comments during her police interviews regarding the video.

Well I'd tell the truth, so I don't know why I would be in that situation. It all goes back to her lies. Why would she say she dropped Caylee off "like a normal day" as she is supposedly trying to get help from detectives to find her "missing" daughter? I don't know why she started the Zanny stuff in 2006...I assume it was an easy way to dupe her family into doing what she wanted/giving her money, whatever. The depths of her motivations and complexity of her lies is beyond me. I choose to keep simple things simple. She would never have lied about anything if she were innocent. Ever.

miss plum
11-27-2011, 11:28 PM
When LA is speaking to OCA in the first jail tape he says, 'this Zanny person' in a sceptical voice that sounds as if no one in the family had ever heard of Zanny until Day 31. It strikes me every time I hear it. I view any references they make to knowing about her before then as just more revisionism.

LambChop
11-28-2011, 12:59 AM
Well I'd tell the truth, so I don't know why I would be in that situation. It all goes back to her lies. Why would she say she dropped Caylee off "like a normal day" as she is supposedly trying to get help from detectives to find her "missing" daughter? I don't know why she started the Zanny stuff in 2006...I assume it was an easy way to dupe her family into doing what she wanted/giving her money, whatever. The depths of her motivations and complexity of her lies is beyond me. I choose to keep simple things simple. She would never have lied about anything if she were innocent. Ever.

Zanny was an around in 2006 because KC needed someone "imaginary" to watch Caylee while KC went to her "imaginary" job. So it seems logical that when Caylee disappears it was ZG who took her. Getting information on ZG was easy for KC because KC had already made up Zanny so anyone, anyone with that name was a potential target. Which is what we are now seeing. The description of Zanny was in KC's imagination only. Situations, events, etc. were all real but woven into KC's tale to make it sound like the truth. KC is not that hard to figure out. She lies therefore you can't believe anything she says. And, of course, the information for ZG does not match exactly because it was never meant to. It was only suppose to draw attention away from KC at the cost of an innocent person. The point of ZG's lawsuit is that it did work for a short period of time and the attention was focused on ZG at least in the community ZG lived in. jmo

ZsaZsa
11-28-2011, 08:15 AM
besides all the lingering questions about similarities between some of Casey's acquaintances/friends and the "nanny", the Sawgrass connection, (and Cast Iron, Sawgrass, Fusian, etc, the crowds overlapped a lot).... the question of why Casey would have created a story about said nanny back in 2006 and then coincidentally a woman with the same name (except Fz) really was at Sawgrass on the date Casey claimed to have last dropped Caylee off there....and now knowing since the trial that there wasn't in fact video of Sawgrass on that date, (or LE at least now said there wasn't) so supposedly there really hadn't been any video proving Casey hadn't been there or who was or wasn't there...not to mention the weird similarities between Casey's zanny story and KMTC's "other Casey",.....besides all these lingering weirdnesses, there was also a ZG who was a grad of the hospitality college at one of the universities there (hint: same college/school mentioned by Jesse G early in the case when he said the head of that school wanted to help in whatever way possible with the search, which we all puzzled over at the time....) Anyway, there was one of the ZGs in the area, (see Zan not Zen) who fit the details of Casey's statement and description much more closely than ZCG (event planner, right age, grad of local university in event planning, some of the family names, phys descrip to a tee, etc.) Whether Casey just saw this person's pictures and details on the internet or knew of her through friends or ever knew this person in any capacity or didn't and it was just coincidence, who knows. Of course the question always remained, why invent a story back in 2006 that would match up with strange coincidences on June 17 2008. Still weird even at this late date.

IIRC none of Casey's friends ever heard the name Zanny until Caylee went 'missing'. Casey just called her the babysitter or the Nanny.
Neither had George or Lee ever heard the name, according to their statements.
Jesse had heard of a Zani for around 6 months, but knew no details.
The only other person I recall who says she knew the name going back a year or two was Cindy, but we know how honest she turned out to be...

ZsaZsa
11-28-2011, 08:20 AM
Zanny was an around in 2006 because KC needed someone "imaginary" to watch Caylee while KC went to her "imaginary" job. So it seems logical that when Caylee disappears it was ZG who took her. Getting information on ZG was easy for KC because KC had already made up Zanny so anyone, anyone with that name was a potential target. Which is what we are now seeing. The description of Zanny was in KC's imagination only. Situations, events, etc. were all real but woven into KC's tale to make it sound like the truth. KC is not that hard to figure out. She lies therefore you can't believe anything she says. And, of course, the information for ZG does not match exactly because it was never meant to. It was only suppose to draw attention away from KC at the cost of an innocent person. The point of ZG's lawsuit is that it did work for a short period of time and the attention was focused on ZG at least in the community ZG lived in. jmo

My feeling was that Zanny was her term for Xanax.
I'm not sure how Zenaida would have been shortened to Zanny, it doesn't sound real. Wouldn't Zenny be more likely? She just pounced on that name at Sawgrass when she needed a Nanny story that sounded feasible in her mind. A diabolical liar is what Jesse called her... he knew her well.

com n sense
11-28-2011, 10:50 AM
No, I'm not 100% convinced, there were so many unanswered questions. I always wondered why Casey would have started telling the Zanny story way back in 2006, plus the many unanswered questions and coincidences, plus of course we heard testimony from YM in the trial stating that there had supposedly NOT been any security video of Sawgrass on that date after all (during the case he'd maintained to Casey A that they had video of the complex on that date and she wasn't on it). So I always wondered whether there weren't a few more shreds of truth to the stories than ever got pinned down, I find it still a bit mysterious even now. Imagine if he was just trying to bluff her out by saying he had video of the complex and she wasn't there on that date, but she actually was. Imagine if you'd been there but the police were telling you they had video that you weren't there. What would you think? I don't know if it's possible that she could have gone by there at any time on that date, or who else in the story could have. We'd have to look closely at her pings all over again. Of course they didn't track pings on everyone. And in the end, pings only show where your phone is of course.. But I know a lot of us basically ruled out her having been at Sawgrass because of the detectives' comments during her police interviews regarding the video.


But didn't Casey admit in the end that it was all another one of her lies?:waitasec:
Her version during the trial had nothing to do with Sawgrass or ZG, infact her whole lie changed when the real ZG was pulled in & questioned>:banghead:

logicalgirl
11-28-2011, 10:54 AM
Does anyone know if the gym at Sawgrass is located in the same building as the leasing agent's office? If I remember correctly FCA texted someone about using the gym at Tony's apartment.

IMO

Not sure what you are asking? Tony's apartment wasn't any where near Sawgrass Apts.?

jon_burrows
11-28-2011, 11:09 AM
Not sure what you are asking? Tony's apartment wasn't any where near Sawgrass Apts.?

Never mind...thanks for the correction.

IMO

Intermezzo
11-28-2011, 11:33 AM
Well I'd tell the truth, so I don't know why I would be in that situation. It all goes back to her lies. Why would she say she dropped Caylee off "like a normal day" as she is supposedly trying to get help from detectives to find her "missing" daughter? I don't know why she started the Zanny stuff in 2006...I assume it was an easy way to dupe her family into doing what she wanted/giving her money, whatever. The depths of her motivations and complexity of her lies is beyond me. I choose to keep simple things simple. She would never have lied about anything if she were innocent. Ever.

I agree with you Horace,

Does anyone remember the dates the Grunds were watching Caylee or how old Caylee was?

IIRC...Casey's friend(Lauren) started to babysit Caylee after the Grunds stopped...thinking Casey was working and she wanted to help out her friend.
Then the babysitter friend found out Casey had lied and was not working, she then stopped babysitting Caylee.

Neighbor and friend Holly G stated she also babysat Caylee..but I don't remember the specifics..

When Casey had no one to watch Caylee during the day, she started dropping Caylee off to Cindy at work, under the ruse she, Casey, had to work in the evenings.

It seems Casey did not take care of Caylee from very early on...

She abandoned her job at Universal but continued to tell people she was working so she did not have to care for her own child during the day and had others watching Caylee...
Then she starting handing Caylee off to Cindy at Gentiva

So where did Casey go during Caylee's infancy and early toddlerhood if Casey had others care for Caylee during the day?

Intermezzo
11-28-2011, 11:35 AM
When LA is speaking to OCA in the first jail tape he says, 'this Zanny person' in a sceptical voice that sounds as if no one in the family had ever heard of Zanny until Day 31. It strikes me every time I hear it. I view any references they make to knowing about her before then as just more revisionism.

I am inclined to believe Lee, who was not living at home and had a job and his own life, did not know about this Zanny the Nanny story until Casey told him Caylee was kidnapped

logicalgirl
11-28-2011, 12:36 PM
My feeling was that Zanny was her term for Xanax.
I'm not sure how Zenaida would have been shortened to Zanny, it doesn't sound real. Wouldn't Zenny be more likely? She just pounced on that name at Sawgrass when she needed a Nanny story that sounded feasible in her mind. A diabolical liar is what Jesse called her... he knew her well.

Didn't I read there was a cartoon or some kind of TV show that originally coined the name "Zanny the Nanny"? Maybe in a children's story? I think so...:waitasec: although I also assumed it was from Xanax...???

logicalgirl
11-28-2011, 12:38 PM
I am inclined to believe Lee, who was not living at home and had a job and his own life, did not know about this Zanny the Nanny story until Casey told him Caylee was kidnapped

Agree Intermezzo - it appears from Lee's testimony on the stand that he was pretty much shut out of much of Caylee's life while she was alive...particularly as far as the details went.

zippitydoda
11-28-2011, 12:45 PM
I made the mistake of viewing some of the jail house videos to find the Zanny conversation. My head hurts real bad, and I'm now in a super grumpy mood. I gave up after the 3rd youtube video. OCA is really a dangerous person, and its just frightning to watch her agian, even after all this time. I also see what bad actors her parents are too.

logicalgirl
11-28-2011, 12:51 PM
I made the mistake of viewing some of the jail house videos to find the Zanny conversation. My head hurts real bad, and I'm now in a super grumpy mood. I gave up after the 3rd youtube video. OCA is really a dangerous person, and its just frightning to watch her agian, even after all this time. I also see what bad actors her parents are too.

..................:therethere: ...........:blowkiss:

ZsaZsa
11-28-2011, 12:52 PM
I agree with you Horace,

Does anyone remember the dates the Grunds were watching Caylee or how old Caylee was?

IIRC...Casey's friend(Lauren) started to babysit Caylee after the Grunds stopped...thinking Casey was working and she wanted to help out her friend.
Then the babysitter friend found out Casey had lied and was not working, she then stopped babysitting Caylee.

Neighbor and friend Holly G stated she also babysat Caylee..but I don't remember the specifics..

When Casey had no one to watch Caylee during the day, she started dropping Caylee off to Cindy at work, under the ruse she, Casey, had to work in the evenings.

It seems Casey did not take care of Caylee from very early on...

She abandoned her job at Universal but continued to tell people she was working so she did not have to care for her own child during the day and had others watching Caylee...
Then she starting handing Caylee off to Cindy at Gentiva

So where did Casey go during Caylee's infancy and early toddlerhood if Casey had others care for Caylee during the day?

According to Richard Grund they started watching Caylee two or three days a week (Jesse also gave up his only day off each week to care for her) in Mar/April/May of 06 after Lauren Gibbs stopped babysitting for her- ( she found out Casey was not really working just dumping Caylee on her) .
As to what Casey did all that time I think from Cindy's credit card accounts she spent a lot of time at Target spending her money, and the rest of it online/on the phone chatting and texting. From the earliest days she tried
to con anyone she could into looking after Caylee- she could not wait to get rid of her.

Anakerie
11-28-2011, 06:37 PM
Didn't I read there was a cartoon or some kind of TV show that originally coined the name "Zanny the Nanny"? Maybe in a children's story? I think so...:waitasec: although I also assumed it was from Xanax...???
I vaguely remember posts mentioning a book about a "Zanny the nanny", not a tv show... Vague because CRS has slapped me upside the head today... lol

LinasK
11-28-2011, 08:03 PM
My feeling was that Zanny was her term for Xanax. I'm not sure how Zenaida would have been shortened to Zanny, it doesn't sound real. Wouldn't Zenny be more likely? She just pounced on that name at Sawgrass when she needed a Nanny story that sounded feasible in her mind. A diabolical liar is what Jesse called her... he knew her well.
Bingo!!!

Justin Tyme
12-05-2011, 07:24 PM
My best guess is that this is the timeframe when Caylee went "missing". I type that, because it is hard to type the other obvious word.

She was, probably, setting up her latest lie to cover her sorry excuse for a self.

Casey better get right with God, in my humble opinion, and fess up to whatever happened, so she can save her soul.

That's assuming that she has one...of course!