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CW
08-06-2008, 11:46 PM
Continue here please.

not_my_kids
08-06-2008, 11:48 PM
Thank you, WindChime.

DianeB
08-06-2008, 11:50 PM
Bringing this over from the thread that closed right after I posted:

The gate was open? That would tend to implicate someone other than Casey putting that ladder down, since she could have gone through the house (and would have, if for no other reason than to put Caylee in a bathing suit, no?).

I think the pool angle may be another MacGuffin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin) that may have nothing to do with anything.

I'm more interested in the phone calls. Why the 2hr cease-fire between 4 and 6pm, if she wasn't getting answers from anyone? What was she doing?

SuziQ
08-06-2008, 11:50 PM
Soooooo, the car was backed in on the 18th. I'm thinking that's when Caylee was put into the trunk. The problem I have with that is that's awfully risky to leave your dead kid in the backyard for your mom and dad and pets to find. I wish we knew what days the gparents were on vacation.

Of course the story about the 24th blows that out of the water. But I don't believe the story that grandpa got the gas cans out of the trunk then. Therefore he never opened the trunk that day.

shannon718
08-06-2008, 11:50 PM
IN RESPONSE TO CAT:

sorry Cat, I had to copy and paste this because i typed and typed back to you but the thread was closed : (

Here it is:


QUOTE=curiositycat;2465664]
I just rewatched Mark Furhman and want to run something by you guys with the tightened time line etc. Okay ready?

The GPS state that Cindy and Caylee swam in the pool together on the night of June 15 and the ladder was taken down and put away as always to prevent Caylee from wandering in the pool alone and drowning.

The GPS then state that no one swam in the pool on the following day but came home and found the gate open and the ladder attached to the pool. June 16th.

June 16th is the flurry of phone calls from Casey to her parents and two other people which go unanswered.

Caylee wasn't being watched and fell into the pool and drowned June 16th
Casey calls her parents and 2 friends incessantly for help no one answers
Casey panics and puts Caylees body on the ground (dog hit)
Brings her in the house (CSI luminol photography today) fluids leaking from Caylee
Removes Caylee and puts her in the trunk (16th)(dog hit)
Hides Caylee's body somewhere unknown
Goes to Sawgrass Apartments and looks for an apartment in Zanny's name (17th.) Setting up identity of Zanny and later takes detective there. (doesnt remember apt #she looked at)
Borrows the shovel from neighbor the next day (18th)
Neighbor notices Casey backs her car up to garage (18th)
Casey goes back get's Caylees body before its discovered (18th) Fluids leak in trunk, hair falls out? post mortem...hence the smell
Casey buries and or dumps the body in a body of water

Please excuse the graphic nature.....it really pains me to write this.

What do you guys think?[/quote

Flurry of calls to the parents. But do we know IF they ever got back with her.
Pool ladder there and gate open. Did she step inside for a minute and while her back was turned did Caylee get into pool. Very good chance of it
IMHO.
Why would she not have called EMS??? Makes no sense. I am thinking that
there has to be a bit more. What could she have been charged with, not a lot . Not murder. Unfortunately it happens often in this country that kids get away from mom or dad and drown.
Also I have spent time today contemplating her going to Sawgrass and pretending to be zanny. I think that she was too much in a panic to think that clearly. She is too inexperience with life to come up with that on her own. IMHO I am leaning more towards someone helping her come up with that. As much as I dislike Cindy, I think George would have been in a better position to know what the police would look for, ect. I am more and more convinced one if not both of the parents are involved in the coverup.
cat

Hey Cat I don't think this is exact but close and if we all work on this basic theory together maybe we can add to it, remove what doesn't work and add what does but it think its along these lines.

She didn't call 911 out of panic and fear of her negligence. As far as pretending to be Zanny I do believe that she is cunning enough to do that. Dont forget this is a woman that stole 1,000 dollars from her friend and then told Amy that she Amy packed the money in her bag for her trip in her sleep. She is a shameless liar. I don't think both GPS knew much until after the fact.

txsvicki
08-06-2008, 11:51 PM
Flurries of phone calls usually happen after a big argument. If Caylee had an accident, why would Casey call four different people in a row. It sounds like there was a big fight and she was being hung up on or her calls weren't being answered on purpose.

shannon718
08-06-2008, 11:52 PM
Soooooo, the car was backed in on the 18th. I'm thinking that's when Caylee was put into the trunk. The problem I have with that is that's awfully risky to leave your dead kid in the backyard for your mom and dad and pets to find. I wish we knew what days the gparents were on vacation.

Of course the story about the 24th blows that out of the water. But I don't believe the story that grandpa got the gas cans out of the trunk then. Therefore he never opened the trunk that day.

She hid her somewhere else and removed her on the 18th to avoid discovery with the pretense of burying her hence the shovel, and the smell of decomp

gigi2009
08-06-2008, 11:52 PM
Bringing this over too! You are too fast!!


What if it's powdered chlorine. Also, I've used my liquid pool chlorine to clean my sprinkler system filter (it gets really moldy from the well water here), and I've left it lying in a small hard plastic tray (chlorine and filter) on my pool deck in the sun before for a couple of days to give the chlorine time to clean the filter, and it didn't evaporate. And that's in 90 degree weather under direct Florida sun..

Evaporate wasn't the right term here--thanks for catching that. I will clarify being a Florida resident myself as well. Pure chlorine over time will gradually lose it's strength. You know how we get the pool shock in the containers like 4 at a time cause it's a pain so we have 2 extra? Well if we let those sit out for a length of time, the chlorine gets weaker.

Chlorine that's been put in pool water ( especially with a solar heater on it) evaporates over time. However if you don't overchlorinate your pool and take a wet towel and throw it in your car,THAT chlorine will evaporate. If you do overchlorinate your pool then you'll bleach your towel for sure. I have an inground pool so I don't use the powder chlorine. I do use the Tablets in the skimmer though. WHew. Sorry it takes me so long to answer, I'm back and forth but seriously I'm just gonna stick here with this thread. :woohoo::woohoo:

DianeB
08-06-2008, 11:52 PM
Soooooo, the car was backed in on the 18th. I'm thinking that's when Caylee was put into the trunk. The problem I have with that is that's awfully risky to leave your dead kid in the backyard for your mom and dad and pets to find. I wish we knew what days the gparents were on vacation. Or the day that Caylee was taken out of the trunk, brought to the backyard, and then put back in the trunk because there was no way to bury her there?

She had the shovel for an hour or less? That's about how long it would take to give up on that particular idea.

txelaine1
08-06-2008, 11:52 PM
Soooooo, the car was backed in on the 18th. I'm thinking that's when Caylee was put into the trunk. The problem I have with that is that's awfully risky to leave your dead kid in the backyard for your mom and dad and pets to find. I wish we knew what days the gparents were on vacation.

Of course the story about the 24th blows that out of the water. But I don't believe the story that grandpa got the gas cans out of the trunk then. Therefore he never opened the trunk that day.

I am doubting George's story as well. However, I tend to believe that the gas cans were stolen by Casey between the 22nd and 24th. Around a full week since Caylee had been seen. I wonder why Casey took them? Why so secretive? She must have burned some evidence! Right?

Cakegirl
08-06-2008, 11:52 PM
Didn't someone on a thread wayyyy back say how long it would take for the body to leak fluids/cells/whatever it is -- so that a cadaver dog would pick it up?

That's one thing about the drowning thing that I'm wondering about. Wouldn't Caylee need to have been deceased a little longer than just drowning right then and placed on the ground?

Does anyone remember?? :waitasec:

ShinaLite
08-06-2008, 11:54 PM
I keep thinking back on last night's Greta and how they showed the places the dog hit ...that playhouse and the enclosed sandpit...
to me that feels like a temporary place Caylee may have been placed why Casey thought what to do next

shannon718
08-06-2008, 11:55 PM
Didn't someone on a thread wayyyy back say how long it would take for the body to leak fluids/cells/whatever it is -- so that a cadaver dog would pick it up?

That's one thing about the drowning thing that I'm wondering about. Wouldn't Caylee need to have been deceased a little longer than just drowning right then and placed on the ground?

Does anyone remember?? :waitasec:

IIRC it doesn't take long at all from death. Remember the officer on here that said they responded to a DOA car accident and as they were trying to extract the victim from the car his body fluids were already leaking out of his nose....

DianeB
08-06-2008, 11:55 PM
Why is the "pool ladder/open gate" story being given more credence than any of the other tall tales we've heard from this family?

Yes, the pool ladder was down in July when the backyard search was done. What outside corroboration do we have that Cindy and George are being truthful with respect to their sudden clarity about June 16th?

SuziQ
08-06-2008, 11:55 PM
She hid her somewhere else and removed her on the 18th to avoid discovery with the pretense of burying her hence the shovel, and the smell of decomp

I'm thinking Caylee had to have been left there (in the backyard) longer than a couple of hours for the dogs to get a hit a month after the fact. It almost sounds like Casey may have tried to hide Caylee in the sandbox as well.

ShinaLite
08-06-2008, 11:55 PM
oh also with the shovel being borrowed on the 18th..we now know it wasnt used to break open the shed lock for the gas on june 22-24...there was another reason for her needing it

shannon718
08-06-2008, 11:56 PM
I keep thinking back on last night's Greta and how they showed the places the dog hit ...that playhouse and the enclosed sandpit...
to me that feels like a temporary place Caylee may have been placed why Casey thought what to do next

and Cindy said "yes and over there by the corner of the pool" word for word. A dog hit there.

curiositycat
08-06-2008, 11:56 PM
Flurries of phone calls usually happen after a big argument. If Caylee had an accident, why would Casey call four different people in a row. It sounds like there was a big fight and she was being hung up on or her calls weren't being answered on purpose.

I think she is used to mommy and daddy bailing her out of any problem. If she was going to tell them then. Why wouldn't they know now??? I am still believing they are all in this up to their eyeballs.

FloridaKatz
08-06-2008, 11:56 PM
Here it is:

QUOTE=curiositycat;2465664]

Hey Cat I don't think this is exact but close and if we all work on this basic theory together maybe we can add to it, remove what doesn't work and add what does but it think its along these lines.

She didn't call 911 out of panic and fear of her negligence. As far as pretending to be Zanny I do believe that she is cunning enough to do that. Dont forget this is a woman that stole 1,000 dollars from her friend and then told Amy that she Amy packed the money in her bag for her trip in her sleep. She is a shameless liar. I don't think both GPS knew much until after the fact.[/QUOTE]

I think this theory is spot on !!

shannon718
08-06-2008, 11:57 PM
Why is the "pool ladder/open gate" story being given more credence than any of the other tall tales we've heard from this family?

Yes, the pool ladder was down in July when the backyard search was done. What outside corroboration do we have that Cindy and George are being truthful with respect to their sudden clarity about June 16th?

That info came from the Furhman source. Remember Cindy and George have never ever discussed this before.

Wise Old Owl
08-06-2008, 11:57 PM
Didn't someone on a thread wayyyy back say how long it would take for the body to leak fluids/cells/whatever it is -- so that a cadaver dog would pick it up?

That's one thing about the drowning thing that I'm wondering about. Wouldn't Caylee need to have been deceased a little longer than just drowning right then and placed on the ground?

Does anyone remember?? :waitasec:
Don't know exact time - but I do know it doesn't take long. Minutes really. Your body shuts down and all the fluids in it (sorry - gross factor) start leaking out whatever openings are closest to the ground - gravity. I'm not buying the drowning theory. It doesn't sit with me.

txelaine1
08-06-2008, 11:58 PM
I am sure that LE has the shovel borrowed from the neighbor. I wonder if cadaver dogs have hit on it?

I think it is very probable that Casey placed Caylee in a few different places trying to determine what she was going to do with her...

SuziQ
08-06-2008, 11:58 PM
oh also with the shovel being borrowed on the 17th..we now know it wasnt used to break open the shed lock for the gas on june 22-24...there was another reason for her needing it

The shovel was borrowed on the 18th.

curiositycat
08-06-2008, 11:59 PM
and Cindy said "yes and over there by the corner of the pool" word for word. A dog hit there.

I'll say this when I looked at that ladder last night, I got goosebumps. Would the cadaver dogs hit on the ground by there IF she moved Caylee right away? I thought that they smelled only the smell of decomposition?? Does anyone know?:confused:

DianeB
08-06-2008, 11:59 PM
That info came from the Furhman source. Remember Cindy and George have never ever discussed this before.Where did the Fuhrman source get it? Wouldn't it have had to originate with Cindy and George? Who else was in the backyard on the 16th that could have come up with that story?

I'm not buying it until I find out it came from an independent source with no dog in this race.

FloridaKatz
08-06-2008, 11:59 PM
Bringing this over too! You are too fast!!



Evaporate wasn't the right term here--thanks for catching that. I will clarify being a Florida resident myself as well. Pure chlorine over time will gradually lose it's strength. You know how we get the pool shock in the containers like 4 at a time cause it's a pain so we have 2 extra? Well if we let those sit out for a length of time, the chlorine gets weaker.

Chlorine that's been put in pool water ( especially with a solar heater on it) evaporates over time. However if you don't overchlorinate your pool and take a wet towel and throw it in your car,THAT chlorine will evaporate. If you do overchlorinate your pool then you'll bleach your towel for sure. I have an inground pool so I don't use the powder chlorine. I do use the Tablets in the skimmer though. WHew. Sorry it takes me so long to answer, I'm back and forth but seriously I'm just gonna stick here with this thread. :woohoo::woohoo:

Sounds like my setup. I use the tabs in chlorinator and the liquid for shock. Which reminds me, I need to buy some chlorine.:crazy:

Wise Old Owl
08-06-2008, 11:59 PM
do we actually know there wasn't ANY phone calls on the 17th? was that said tonight?

athy
08-06-2008, 11:59 PM
what if it wasn't a drowning but a case where pool supplies were left out and Caylee got into them. she could have drank some of it and died that way.

Cakegirl
08-06-2008, 11:59 PM
IIRC it doesn't take long at all from death. Remember the officer on here that said they responded to a DOA car accident and as they were trying to extract the victim from the car his body fluids were already leaking out of his nose....

No, I missed that. I could see that since it was a car accident (with alot of trauma since they were pinned in).

I'm wondering for just a typical death... maybe a death not as traumatic perhaps. I was still thinking maybe it was said to be 10 minutes or so. I'll try to go search.

SweetDreamOfYou
08-06-2008, 11:59 PM
I can't see casey drowning caylee i had to drown a baby bunny once and its darn hard. hate to say it but she comes off too lazy to me to have done that.
altho she seems very immature to me and if caylee drowned by accident i can see where it would ahve been her first instinct to call mom for help and not 911.

then panicking if she could not find her to tell her what to do.

TripleA
08-07-2008, 12:00 AM
Who knows for sure when the gas was stolen? We only know what the Anthony's have reported and obviously they lie.

babycat
08-07-2008, 12:00 AM
Flurries of phone calls usually happen after a big argument. If Caylee had an accident, why would Casey call four different people in a row. It sounds like there was a big fight and she was being hung up on or her calls weren't being answered on purpose.

This is what I'm thinking. Call, yell, hang up. Call, yell hang up. If the calls were answered, I'm guessing this is the situation.

I fear that it might be hard for LE to believe Cindy if she does admit to fighting with Casey...she's been maintaining for so long that "everything was fine" and keeping up appearances that they were all on good terms. If those calls were answered, and they spoke any amount of time, it could appear damning, as if the family knew...which I don't personally believe that they did.

What is weird to me, is if the ladder was always up, I guess we'd have to assume that Casey was swimming that day. If, by chance, Caylee DID wander into the pool, why would Casey not just call 911? And would the decomp smell appear so quickly? Would chlorine mask it?

I tend to believe that the body was hidden somewhere until the 24th, then in the car at some point from the 24th-27th. Because SOMEONE would have noticed the decomp smell from the 17-27th, it seems. I doubt she personally could have driven that long.

I also think she left the car, hoping it would be stolen...

Maybe (god forbid) she drowned Caylee, or otherwise, then tried to make it look like a drowning after she freaked?

TravelingBug
08-07-2008, 12:01 AM
Bringing this over from the thread that closed right after I posted:

The gate was open? That would tend to implicate someone other than Casey putting that ladder down, since she could have gone through the house (and would have, if for no other reason than to put Caylee in a bathing suit, no?).


I'm more interested in the phone calls. Why the 2hr cease-fire between 4 and 6pm, if she wasn't getting answers from anyone? What was she doing?


The gate may have been open so that she didn't take the body through the house to avoid leaving evidence maybe?

Time gap to go wherever she then waited trying to figure out what to do?

When was Amy gone? I forget the dates. Might she have actually taken the body to someone else's house, if it went down like this around the 16th and the move elsewhere to the 18th?

I wonder if they did the dogs at somewhere like Amy's since she was gone at some point, and even Tony's, since that was her "centralized location"? :waitasec: Even if she didn't have the body there, she might have put other things there (or had them there) figuring they'd check Cindy and George's, but not Tony's with a dog?

shannon718
08-07-2008, 12:01 AM
I'll say this when I looked at that ladder last night, I got goosebumps. Would the cadaver dogs hit on the ground by there IF she moved Caylee right away? I thought that they smelled only the smell of decomposition?? Does anyone know?:confused:

Fluids take minutes to leak from your body. Caylee could have drowned rather quickly. Who knows when Casey discovered her. Could have been within minutes could have been 1/2 hour.

babycat
08-07-2008, 12:01 AM
I can't see casey drowning caylee i had to drown a baby bunny once and its darn hard. hate to say it but she comes off too lazy to me to have done that.
altho she seems very immature to me and if caylee drowned by accident i can see where it would ahve been her first instinct to call mom for help and not 911.

then panicking if she could not find her to tell her what to do.


Sorry, off topic, but wtf would you have to drown a baby bunny? I can't imagine a situation that would call for it :confused:

no offense

legitimately wondering

DianeB
08-07-2008, 12:01 AM
do we actually know there wasn't ANY phone calls on the 17th? was that said tonight?Maybe there were calls made from another phone that LE hasn't checked, or doesn't know about.

curiositycat
08-07-2008, 12:01 AM
Where did the Fuhrman source get it? Wouldn't it have had to originate with Cindy and George? Who else was in the backyard on the 16th that could have come up with that story?

I'm not buying it until I find out it came from an independent source with no dog in this race.

Furhman good have gotten it from another detective. He is well respected in the field and a buddy in LE probably told him. That's MHO

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 12:01 AM
I think it is very probable that Casey placed Caylee in a few different places trying to determine what she was going to do with her...

I agree and what we need to know is where is the last place she decided on... :(

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 12:02 AM
I think she is used to mommy and daddy bailing her out of any problem. If she was going to tell them then. Why wouldn't they know now??? I am still believing they are all in this up to their eyeballs.
Amen.

whiteangora
08-07-2008, 12:03 AM
Why is the "pool ladder/open gate" story being given more credence than any of the other tall tales we've heard from this family?

Yes, the pool ladder was down in July when the backyard search was done. What outside corroboration do we have that Cindy and George are being truthful with respect to their sudden clarity about June 16th?

That's what I said earlier, they may just be trying to confuse everyone just a little more (if that's even possible)
And then we have George, "watching his fav food network show and looking at his watch" as Casey & Caylee left. pooooey

Cakegirl
08-07-2008, 12:03 AM
I think it is very probable that Casey placed Caylee in a few different places trying to determine what she was going to do with her...

I agree. And it makes me want to :sick: to think of how Casey was only concerned with herself and making sure she hid it all well enough.

MitchLite
08-07-2008, 12:03 AM
great discussion for the evening! Thanks all.......will check back in tomorrow

one question...does anyone have the dates the grandparents were gone on vacation? has it been proven they were on vacation?

CarrieSis
08-07-2008, 12:03 AM
What if Casey jumped into the pool with her because she was overheated from being left in the car? To try to bring her temperature down? She could have left the car alive, but died afterward because her core temp was too high.

45 minutes is probably long enough for it to have happened, and Casey might have headed home by instinct. She knew she'd be in trouble for leaving her in the car. First flurry of calls when she can't get into the house/garage; second flurry after Caylee has passed away and all of Casey's attempts have not saved her.

She could be in the pool to cool off; laid on the ground for CPR; Casey sitting and holding her on the storage trunk or ground.

Whatever happened afterwards with calculation, manipulation, coverup etc I do believe that she loved Caylee and freaked out whenever she died. Esp if she was responsible for it happening.

IMO only, of course.

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 12:03 AM
The shovel was borrowed on the 18th.

oops...yes you're right ...as was the second flurry of calls correct? will edit my post

but it still was a few days before the shed was broken into so it wasn't borrowed for that

shannon718
08-07-2008, 12:03 AM
Maybe there were calls made from another phone that LE hasn't checked, or doesn't know about.

Yes. Furhman said that tonight. He made a point of it.

FloridaKatz
08-07-2008, 12:04 AM
what if it wasn't a drowning but a case where pool supplies were left out and Caylee got into them. she could have drank some of it and died that way.


I kind of doubt that theory, as the jugs that the muriatic acid and the chlorine come in, have child/adult proof caps on them (at least the ones I buy do). The pools that use salt - you buy the salt in big bags and I don't know if a 2 year old would think to open a bag like that and scoop out pool salt. Plus I'm thinking that GP probably kept that kind of stuff in the shed

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 12:04 AM
I just don't think it happened at the house. She left with Caylee at 1 and George left 2 - 2:30 - calls start at 3. I don't think she would have come back home. She went somewhere else - we know she didn't go to work duh - went somewhere to party? Maybe that's who's talking? And she couldn't have kept that body in that trunk for even more than 1 day - not in this heat. We know it smelled - but more than 1 day and you are going to attract a crowd with that smell - anywhere you put it.

Would really like to know where those pings were coming from when those calls started at 3

curiositycat
08-07-2008, 12:05 AM
Fluids take minutes to leak from your body. Caylee could have drowned rather quickly. Who knows when Casey discovered her. Could have been within minutes could have been 1/2 hour.
Thanks for the answer. What a mess. If this is what happened it is so sad that she didn't risk calling EMS. I am leaning towards the fact that it was longer then just a few minutes or even thirty. Maybe she was drinking or taking some prescription meds and fell asleep for an hour or so inside.

Cakegirl
08-07-2008, 12:05 AM
Who knows for sure when the gas was stolen? We only know what the Anthony's have reported and obviously they lie.

Wasn't it said though that gas had been stolen several times before that too? Miss Casey must have just thought she had her own gas station in the backyard. :rolleyes:

DianeB
08-07-2008, 12:05 AM
Furhman good have gotten it from another detective. He is well respected in the field and a buddy in LE probably told him. That's MHOI'm not saying Fuhrman -or his source- is making anything up, but where would the information have come from?

It had to originate with
A. Cindy
B. George
C. Someone who was there when they came home who will testify that indeed the gate was open and the pool ladder was in place.

I'll take door #3, Monty.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 12:05 AM
Why the **** don't they just arrest the whole family, not allow anyo f them any contact with any of the others and see how badly the stories fall apart from there?

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 12:06 AM
oops...yes you're right ...as was the second flurry of calls correct? will edit my post

but it still was a few days before the shed was broken into so it wasn't borrowed for that

Yes, and no calls mentioned for the 17th.

SweetDreamOfYou
08-07-2008, 12:07 AM
Sorry, off topic, but wtf would you have to drown a baby bunny? I can't imagine a situation that would call for it :confused:

no offense

legitimately wondering

was a wild baby bunny that had an ear infection that went to his brain he had a stroke and was paralyzed and blind.
pound would not put him down cause he was wild wildlife would not cause he was a pet. thye advised me the least painful thing i could do for him was drown him.

Cakegirl
08-07-2008, 12:07 AM
Yes. Furhman said that tonight. He made a point of it.

So that would mean that Casey got the new cell phone possibly on the 17th too?

curiositycat
08-07-2008, 12:08 AM
great discussion for the evening! Thanks all.......will check back in tomorrow

one question...does anyone have the dates the grandparents were gone on vacation? has it been proven they were on vacation?

I have been trying to get this info myself. I haven't heard that answered by anyone, maybe I missed it. I haven't heard a thing about where they went for their vacation either.:confused:

babycat
08-07-2008, 12:08 AM
was a wild baby bunny that had an ear infection that went to his brain he had a stroke and was paralyzed and blind.
pound would not put him down cause he was wild wildlife would not cause he was a pet. thye advised me the least painful thing i could do for him was drown him.


Oh, I gotcha. So sad:(

Thanks for answering that O/T question:) I had a feeling you had a decent reason! I just was wondering.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 12:08 AM
I just don't think it happened at the house. She left with Caylee at 1 and George left 2 - 2:30 - calls start at 3. I don't think she would have come back home. She went somewhere else - we know she didn't go to work duh - went somewhere to party? Maybe that's who's talking? And she couldn't have kept that body in that trunk for even more than 1 day - not in this heat. We know it smelled - but more than 1 day and you are going to attract a crowd with that smell - anywhere you put it.

Would really like to know where those pings were coming from when those calls started at 3

My theory states that she put Caylee in the trunk and moved her somewhere else in a panic. She is untraceable by phone all day on the 17th by Z. gonzales when and looked at an "apartment" and then on the 18th she borrows the shovel...with the premise of burying. Backs her car up to the garage? Where ever she originally put Caylee she goes back to get her and puts her in the trunk to bring her to where she finally dumps her after thinking about it. That is where the smell, hair, and stain come from.

Does anyone remember what day she abandoned the car? And what day she borrowed Amy's. This is important.

Salem
08-07-2008, 12:09 AM
Soooooo, the car was backed in on the 18th. I'm thinking that's when Caylee was put into the trunk. The problem I have with that is that's awfully risky to leave your dead kid in the backyard for your mom and dad and pets to find. I wish we knew what days the gparents were on vacation.

Of course the story about the 24th blows that out of the water. But I don't believe the story that grandpa got the gas cans out of the trunk then. Therefore he never opened the trunk that day.

I don't believe that story either. I think Caylee was in the trunk from the 16th to the 18th and was placed somewhere else after the 18th. Only way to have the smell so entrenched in the car that it would be strong on the 30th when the car was towed and still strong when George brought the car home on July 14th or 15th. But the smell couldn't have been that strong or why didn't the tow guys smell it? If it was still relatively fresh, the two guys would have noticed so why didn't they call it in?

Another possiblity - Caylee was in the backyard somewhere until G&C went on vacation, which would have been 6/22 to 6/24 based on the police report. So that doesn't work if the shovel was borrowed on 6/18.

I'm thinking she picked Caylee up around the 6/27 from the house, maybe when GPs were at work? Maybe the shovel was for prep work?

I know the death smell can linger, but for how long will it stay "strong"?

Salem

DianeB
08-07-2008, 12:10 AM
So that would mean that Casey got the new cell phone possibly on the 17th too?Maybe, but would she activate it before it was charged? How long does it take to charge a Blackjack? Why wouldn't she have used her own phone in the meantime, and tried out the new one when it was charged?

I think she may have been using someone else's phone -maybe her battery was dead?

ETA: Especially if she forgot to grab the charger when she left on the 16th.

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 12:10 AM
I have been trying to get this info myself. I haven't heard that answered by anyone, maybe I missed it. I haven't heard a thing about where they went for their vacation either.:confused:
Cindy was on vacation from work - first week in June. Don't know if they really "went" anywhere.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 12:10 AM
So that would mean that Casey got the new cell phone possibly on the 17th too?

really good point. Maybe! We need to find the date that the car was abandoned. and the dates that she drove Amy's car. When did that smell get to bad and did she try to clean it up? Remember the cleaning fluids/detergent thing.

crocus
08-07-2008, 12:11 AM
So, George obviously works 2nd shift....Goes to work 2ish? Cindy works days, gets home at 5:30ish?

I am looking for a window of opportunity for Casey to be at the home when nobody is there.

Cakegirl
08-07-2008, 12:11 AM
Does anyone remember what day she abandoned the car? And what day she borrowed Amy's. This is important.

Wasn't it thought to have been dumped on the 27th and towed on the 30th?

I would have to go back and check on Amy's car stuff. I thought it was during the 2nd week of July though... but could be wrong.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 12:11 AM
Does anyone remember what day she abandoned the car? And what day she borrowed Amy's. This is important.

According to Tony he picked her up from the Amsco parking lot on the 27th. I don't know of an official confirmation of that yet.

tttterri
08-07-2008, 12:14 AM
Why is the "pool ladder/open gate" story being given more credence than any of the other tall tales we've heard from this family?

Yes, the pool ladder was down in July when the backyard search was done. What outside corroboration do we have that Cindy and George are being truthful with respect to their sudden clarity about June 16th?
That is Exactly what I was wondering also! Why are so many accepting the pool ladder as truth so quickly? And HOW did the neighbor all of a sudden remember when the shovel was borrowed? I am still wondering where the calls were made FROM. Affidavit stated that Casey said she returned to Sawgrass Apts at around 3pm on the 16th and found Caylee gone. The news on Fox live today showed pictures showing the LE was back at Sawgrass today and stayed for 2 hrs. Makes me have to wait to see more details.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:19 AM
Hate to confuse even more but here it goes.
Whose to say it was not premeditated? Casey made several calls on the 16th and not a single 911 call? Maybe she needed an alibi? She then goes through an even bigger production to hide Caylee on top of this, she continues to fabricate lie after lie? Yet she is still able to function like a promoter and the perfect girlfriend for TonE, while also talking and texting Cindy daily, even stopping by the parents house, where she is caught with the stolen gas cans on the 24th?

About the only thing that adds up is the 16th date time line, which would then place her at TonE's, for the last two weeks of June. Need to keep in mind all the past episodes of Caylee being with the Nanny, going back a year and half.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 12:23 AM
From tonights Greta

Inside the CSI Search (http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html#)

What were investigators looking for when they returned to the home of missing 2-year-old Caylee Anthony's grandparents. FOX News contributor Mark Fuhrman was on the scene. WATCH (http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html#)

• The Full Story (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398762,00.html)

blondietx
08-07-2008, 12:24 AM
Another possiblity - Caylee was in the backyard somewhere until G&C went on vacation, which would have been 6/22 to 6/24 based on the police report. So that doesn't work if the shovel was borrowed on 6/18.




Shovel was to bury her on the 18th then between 6/22-6/24, she dug her up and moved her. Remember, even if the shovel wasn't used to bust the lock, she stole the gas cans during those dates. So, she got into that shed somehow.

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 12:25 AM
UUUGGGHHHH - server busy

But gave me time to think. We are all going on what the GP's have said. We have no confirmation that George was actually working.

Here's a thought:

16th - Casey and Caylee are sleeping. Cindy gets up - goes to work - early prob 7-8ish.

George gets up - having coffee - whatever - not paying attention.

Caylee gets up (this could even happen BEFORE george is awake as well) - wanders into the pool - drowns.

George finds her - already gone. Decides to pin this on Casey. So - he goes into Casey's room - wakes her up asking where is Caylee - they BOTH go out to the pool and find her.

Cover up starts. Casey thinks its a cover up - but George is plotting to pin this all on her.

Anyone?

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:25 AM
Wasn't it thought to have been dumped on the 27th and towed on the 30th?

I would have to go back and check on Amy's car stuff. I thought it was during the 2nd week of July though... but could be wrong.
The date was not tacked down. Cindy testified it had been in the tow lot since the 30th. It was noted it sat at the mall for a couple days prior to being towed. I think we semi established the probability of a week end drop off by Casey being possibly anywhere from the 27-29 of Jun.

gigi2009
08-07-2008, 12:26 AM
I would love to work with this theory. My Color is green so add/or take away whomever wishes to jump in!

Originally Posted by shannon718
I just rewatched Mark Furhman and want to run something by you guys with the tightened time line etc. Okay ready?

The GPS state that Cindy and Caylee swam in the pool together on the night of June 15 and the ladder was taken down and put away as always to prevent Caylee from wandering in the pool alone and drowning.

The GPS then state that no one swam in the pool on the following day but came home and found the gate open and the ladder attached to the pool. June 16th.

June 16th is the flurry of phone calls from Casey to her parents and two other people which go unanswered.

Caylee wasn't being watched and fell into the pool and drowned June 16th
Casey was on computer for hours AGAIN
Casey calls her parents and 2 friends incessantly for help no one answers

Casey panics and puts Caylees body on the ground (no dog hit yetdog hit)
Tries to revive her?
Really panics cause GP's will cut her off for good!

Brings her in the house (CSI luminol photography today)
hides her in garbage bag in the corner under the bed in her room until the 17th
fluids leaking from Caylee
lays her down in the yard perhaps to bury her? (dog hit)

Goes to Sawgrass Apartments and looks for an apartment in Zanny's name (17th.) Setting up identity of Zanny and later takes detective there. (doesnt remember apt #she looked at)
Borrows the shovel from neighbor the next day (18th)
Neighbor notices Casey backs her car up to garage (18th)
Casey goes back get's Caylees body before its discovered (18th) Fluids leak in trunk, hair falls out? post mortem...hence the smell
Casey buries and or dumps the body in a body of water
Also the 18th drives i5 miles one way to bella vida blvd. Had looked at houses before with fiance maybethis was their dream home Leaves Caylee in one of two retention ponds with fountains. -
The 19th or 20th Tattoo of Bella Vida and a party at fusion

Parents on vacay 22nd-24th- gas reported stolen.

Please excuse the graphic nature.....it really pains me to write this.

Okay so we can move stuff around and see what makes sense and what fits.Maybe we'll get something pretty good.

blondietx
08-07-2008, 12:26 AM
I just don't think it happened at the house. She left with Caylee at 1 and George left 2 - 2:30 - calls start at 3.


Maybe the first set of calls were to locate George to make sure he had already left for work? Then to locate Cindy to check and see what time she would be home? Just a thought?

brighidin
08-07-2008, 12:27 AM
Bringing this over from the thread that closed right after I posted:

The gate was open? That would tend to implicate someone other than Casey putting that ladder down, since she could have gone through the house (and would have, if for no other reason than to put Caylee in a bathing suit, no?).

I think the pool angle may be another MacGuffin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin) that may have nothing to do with anything.


I agree. I mean, it is a plausible theory. But I'm leery because it was the grandmother that brought up the pool angle, right? Right now, I don't believe anything the grandparents say, or at least, I question why they say certain things.

Thanks for the link to the MacGuffin, btw. I'd never heard that term before.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 12:28 AM
I found a site that says that a body doesn't really begin to smell until putrefaction begins, that usually takes about 2 days. But it is slowed if the body is buried. So if we think that she initially buried Caylee, she would have had to be dead at least 3-4 days before she was placed in the trunk for the smell to result.
http://www.deardeath.com/after_death.htm
I must go vomit now.

txelaine1
08-07-2008, 12:28 AM
I have wondered if maybe George left the gate open and the ladder up (if that is even true... who knows?) He looks like he may sunbathe. He has a bit of the George Hamilton leather skin look going for me.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:30 AM
Shovel was to bury her on the 18th then between 6/22-6/24, she dug her up and moved her. Remember, even if the shovel wasn't used to bust the lock, she stole the gas cans during those dates. So, she got into that shed somehow.
Your assuming one shovel and only one shovel was used for this process. Shovel could have been borrowed only to break shed lock, possibly a shovel removed from shed along with gas cans that were not yet aware of and or borrowed from some place else. remember were just finding out Casey stole the gas cans George reported in the above burglary.

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 12:30 AM
k so this might not be the popular option but I still do believe as crazy as the gp's seem...they are being honest...
there have been mistakes but to me a lot of them are explainable under the circumstances..I also think even though we are hearing new stuff coming from them in the last few days these are things LE have already been told...
I could see how they would hold back certain things from the media because they felt it would just make Casey look worse and in their mind they wanted the focus to be on Caylee...but I don't think they have held back with any question the police have asked them....or directly lied to the police...they are not looking at things the way maybe we are( I for one see Casey totally guilty of harming Caylee without a doubt)...when you convince yourself of a truth you see and look away from certain things in your own head..and i see this with them...but I bet when asked by LE directly...they answer honestly....jmo...I think in the end it will be because of the little things they remember that actually nails casey and helps with the most accurate timeline...and a side note...no one..no one would even know little Caylee was missing had it not been for GM's call...
they make me suspisious too and I have gone back and forth...but right now, I would bet they have not lied to LE..
Also, If george was involved in some kind of cover up I can't see him calling the police on the 24th about the gas cans...if he was in kahoots (sp) with Casey about covering the death of her child, I don't think she'd be lying to him about some gas stolen...

Leila
08-07-2008, 12:33 AM
IN RESPONSE TO CAT:

sorry Cat, I had to copy and paste this because i typed and typed back to you but the thread was closed : (

Here it is:


QUOTE=curiositycat;2465664]

Hey Cat I don't think this is exact but close and if we all work on this basic theory together maybe we can add to it, remove what doesn't work and add what does but it think its along these lines.

She didn't call 911 out of panic and fear of her negligence. As far as pretending to be Zanny I do believe that she is cunning enough to do that. Dont forget this is a woman that stole 1,000 dollars from her friend and then told Amy that she Amy packed the money in her bag for her trip in her sleep. She is a shameless liar. I don't think both GPS knew much until after the fact.

Shannon................I think your sequence of events is on target. Casey is a pro when it comes to lies, and I think it's very possible she simply picked out an apartment complex - Sawgrass Apts., and checked them out on June 17th, saw the guest register and simply picked out that name - Zenaida Fernandez Gonzolas. When the time came to lead LE to the babysitter's apt, she was all set.

blondietx
08-07-2008, 12:33 AM
Your assuming one shovel and only one shovel was used for this process. Shovel could have been borrowed only to break shed lock, possibly a shovel removed from shed along with gas cans that were not yet aware of and or borrowed from some place else. remember were just finding out Casey stole the gas cans George reported in the above burglary.

No, I didn't make that clear. She could have used their shovel between 6/22-6/24 to do whatever it is she needed to do. Afterall, once she broke into the shed(however she did that), she had full access to anything else in there. Does that make more sense?

The initial reason she borrowed the shovel must not have been to break the lock, as I had guessed in earlier posts. It was to possibly bury something/someone!:eek:

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 12:35 AM
The initial reason she borrowed the shovel must not have been to break the lock, as I had guessed in earlier posts. It was to possibly bury something/someone!:eek:


right because the shovel was borrowed on the 18th...the shed was reported as being broken into on the 22-24th

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:36 AM
really good point. Maybe! We need to find the date that the car was abandoned. and the dates that she drove Amy's car. When did that smell get to bad and did she try to clean it up? Remember the cleaning fluids/detergent thing.
I thought Amy returned 15thJuly same day as 911 call.

Leila
08-07-2008, 12:36 AM
Flurries of phone calls usually happen after a big argument. If Caylee had an accident, why would Casey call four different people in a row. It sounds like there was a big fight and she was being hung up on or her calls weren't being answered on purpose.

If Caylee had an accident and Casey's calls to mom and dad were going unanswered, why didn't she send a quick text message to each of them?

wedavis
08-07-2008, 12:37 AM
Maybe, but would she activate it before it was charged? How long does it take to charge a Blackjack? Why wouldn't she have used her own phone in the meantime, and tried out the new one when it was charged?

I think she may have been using someone else's phone -maybe her battery was dead?

ETA: Especially if she forgot to grab the charger when she left on the 16th.


If she was using someone elses phone that would explain how this info got out.

missscarlett
08-07-2008, 12:38 AM
quote:
Yes, and no calls mentioned for the 17th.

Actually he said no more calls were made until the 17th (after the 2nd flurry of calls on the 16th).

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:39 AM
No, I didn't make that clear. She could have used their shovel between 6/22-6/24 to do whatever it is she needed to do. Afterall, once she broke into the shed(however she did that), she had full access to anything else in there. Does that make more sense?

The initial reason she borrowed the shovel must not have been to break the lock, as I had guessed in earlier posts. It was to possibly bury something/someone!:eek:
Question I watched NG starting to sound more like a tabloid, never heard exact date of shovel being borrowed. Last I knew it was in mid Jun. is there now an exact dte?

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 12:40 AM
Just watched Mark F video. He says the Anthony's noticed Tuesday morning that the ladder was back up at the pool and the gate was open. That would have been Tuesday June 17th.

Leila
08-07-2008, 12:40 AM
Didn't someone on a thread wayyyy back say how long it would take for the body to leak fluids/cells/whatever it is -- so that a cadaver dog would pick it up?

That's one thing about the drowning thing that I'm wondering about. Wouldn't Caylee need to have been deceased a little longer than just drowning right then and placed on the ground?

Does anyone remember?? :waitasec:

I'm a bit vague on this, but I remember someone saying decomp fluids withing 2 hours.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:41 AM
If she was using someone elses phone that would explain how this info got out.
Black jacks do not take long to charge

RoseRed
08-07-2008, 12:43 AM
The shovel was borrowed on the 18th.

How did the neighbor suddenly remember the date was the 18th ?

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 12:43 AM
right because the shovel was borrowed on the 18th...the shed was reported as being broken into on the 22-24th
I think it was confirmed that Tony picked Casey up from the Amscot (car was broken down) on the 27th

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 12:43 AM
Just watched Mark F video. He says the Anthony's noticed Tuesday morning that the ladder was back up at the pool and the gate was open. That would have been Tuesday June 17th.
Yes, I caught that to.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 12:43 AM
I found a site that says that a body doesn't really begin to smell until putrefaction begins, that usually takes about 2 days. But it is slowed if the body is buried. So if we think that she initially buried Caylee, she would have had to be dead at least 3-4 days before she was placed in the trunk for the smell to result.
http://www.deardeath.com/after_death.htm
I must go vomit now.

Thanks for looking that up. That timeframe actually makes sense if she was temporarily stashed somewhere, the backyard or the trunk.

wedavis
08-07-2008, 12:44 AM
That is Exactly what I was wondering also! Why are so many accepting the pool ladder as truth so quickly? And HOW did the neighbor all of a sudden remember when the shovel was borrowed? I am still wondering where the calls were made FROM. Affidavit stated that Casey said she returned to Sawgrass Apts at around 3pm on the 16th and found Caylee gone. The news on Fox live today showed pictures showing the LE was back at Sawgrass today and stayed for 2 hrs. Makes me have to wait to see more details.

I used to just get frustrated when people didn't even bother to read the affidavit. Now we have incorrect facts being posted from the affidavit. :)
The date you are looking for here is the 9th.

blondietx
08-07-2008, 12:44 AM
Question I watched NG starting to sound more like a tabloid, never heard exact date of shovel being borrowed. Last I knew it was in mid Jun. is there now an exact dte?

Yes, I believe it was Fuhrman that said it on Greta. He made a point of saying there had been some question as to when the shovel was borrowed and pointed to the next door neighbor's house. He went through 6/16-6/18, step by step, as he knew it. The shovel was borrowed on 6/18 and another flurry of calls that day, as well.

missscarlett
08-07-2008, 12:44 AM
I think it was confirmed that Tony picked Casey up from the Amscot (car was broken down) on the 27th

Why have we not heard anything else from Tony lately?

txsvicki
08-07-2008, 12:44 AM
I just can't imagine Casey placing a deceased Caylee in the house or burying her in the yard because of the two family dogs. Surely that would be very risky. She must have placed Caylee in the trunk and left pretty quickly or at least before Cindy was due home. I wonder if the next door neighbor remembered if Casey borrowed the shovel and then left the home quickly.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:44 AM
I'm a bit vague on this, but I remember someone saying decomp fluids withing 2 hours.
Saliva I can see in a drowning victim. Decomp is the body breaking down, fluids begin to leak, the intestinal gas thus the smell. Small child 2-3 days depending on conditions, weight, etc. can cause it to be shorter.

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 12:45 AM
I think that is wrong - in this heat - 3 - 4 days for a body in a trunk. Man oh man - I wouldn't want to be the one to open it. I would only think it would be a day - 2 at the most before it would be very noticeable.

blondietx
08-07-2008, 12:46 AM
How did the neighbor suddenly remember the date was the 18th ?

Maybe they had to when push came to shove. Before 'the middle of June' worked. Now, LE needs something more concrete, IMO.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:46 AM
I just can't imagine Casey placing a deceased Caylee in the house or burying her in the yard because of the two family dogs. Surely that would be very risky. She must have placed Caylee in the trunk and left pretty quickly or at least before Cindy was due home. I wonder if the next door neighbor remembered if Casey borrowed the shovel and then left the home quickly.
The dogs hit in the yard this does not mean Caylee's natural scent which was through out the yard. It means a body that is already in the process of decomp. Buried

lv2bgoing
08-07-2008, 12:46 AM
when LE or CSI went into the house today to get evidence that they could of planted listening devices (spying on them)?:behindbar

shannon718
08-07-2008, 12:47 AM
Question I watched NG starting to sound more like a tabloid, never heard exact date of shovel being borrowed. Last I knew it was in mid Jun. is there now an exact dte?

Furhman has a "source" and said the 18th...thats where all this theorizing is coming from. :blowkiss:

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 12:47 AM
How did the neighbor suddenly remember the date was the 18th ?

Well I don't think he suddenly remembered today. I'm pretty sure LE has had this info from the beginning. I was involved in a long drawn out courtcase that I had to give depos for. What they try to do is to get witnesses to explain why they remembered that day. Did you go to a wedding? Was it your kids birthday? That type of thing.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 12:47 AM
Thanks for looking that up. That timeframe actually makes sense if she was temporarily stashed somewhere, the backyard or the trunk.


I agree. I don't think that she would have buried her and then just dug her up the same day. She owuld have had the spot where she was going to put her picked before she dug her up.
If she had stashed her in the trunk, it only would have taken 1 1/2 days for the body to putrefy, if she was buried closer to 4. So, still not sure what to think.

gigi2009
08-07-2008, 12:47 AM
According to Tony he picked her up from the Amsco parking lot on the 27th. I don't know of an official confirmation of that yet.

And towed on the 30th,

txelaine1
08-07-2008, 12:47 AM
Why have we not heard anything else from Tony lately?

Not since Geraldo's brother was following him into the bathroom.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 12:48 AM
CHECK

Your amazing at this stuff. Did you watch Furhman tonight? If you watch it I bet you'll have an even better theory.

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 12:48 AM
when LE or CSI went into the house today to get evidence that they could of planted listening devices (spying on them)?:behindbar
they don't need those nowadays. They can listen from around the block now - without anything in the house.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:48 AM
Maybe they had to when push came to shove. Before 'the middle of June' worked. Now, LE needs something more concrete, IMO.
Maybe the police with held the info. which could give two days in the ground or a day and half. Good point about the pet dogs, possibly digging.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 12:49 AM
If Caylee had an accident and Casey's calls to mom and dad were going unanswered, why didn't she send a quick text message to each of them?

Might have been worried that someone else would see the text message. That worry isn't there if she can get them to pick up the phone.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 12:49 AM
I agree. I don't think that she would have buried her and then just dug her up the same day. She owuld have had the spot where she was going to put her picked before she dug her up.
If she had stashed her in the trunk, it only would have taken 1 1/2 days for the body to putrefy, if she was buried closer to 4. So, still not sure what to think.

I don't think she buried her. I think she hid her. However, there was dirt in the trunk (attempt at burying her maybe) I don't think she drove around with her for days. She hid her and went back and got her. Maybe she covered her a bit with dirt to obscure her.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:49 AM
they don't need those nowadays. They can listen from around the block now - without anything in the house.
Wish we all had them then

blondietx
08-07-2008, 12:50 AM
they don't need those nowadays. They can listen from around the block now - without anything in the house.

wow...really? how is that? interesting!

Leila
08-07-2008, 12:50 AM
Where did the Fuhrman source get it? Wouldn't it have had to originate with Cindy and George? Who else was in the backyard on the 16th that could have come up with that story?

I'm not buying it until I find out it came from an independent source with no dog in this race.

I can't give any proof, but Mark Fuhrman simply referred to the person as "my source." It was obvious that MF had a list of calls from Casey's cell phone to the person's she called. He could only have gotten that list from someone in LE, or from someone who doesn't want to be identified close to the situation (Lee?). As to the date the shovel was borrowed, it's possible that MF asked the neighbor himself, or someone in LE allowed that info to be leaked. In regards to the gate being open and pool ladder up, we don't know the source of this info either, but I doubt it came from Cindy or George.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 12:50 AM
not since geraldo's brother was following him into the bathroom.

roflmao

SouthernMom
08-07-2008, 12:52 AM
really good point. Maybe! We need to find the date that the car was abandoned. and the dates that she drove Amy's car. When did that smell get to bad and did she try to clean it up? Remember the cleaning fluids/detergent thing.

I read in another thread that the car was abandoned at the Amscot on the 27th . Her bf Tony was called to pick her up. Casey's story was the car broke down and she had called her dad to retrieve it and get it repaired. The car was towed on the 30th. She drove Amy's car in July while Amy was in PR (I don't recall those dates). The parents got a registered letter notice on Saturday July 12. Picked up the letter late on Monday, July 14. And retrieved the car from impound on Tuesday July 15. This is the day when the ____ hit the fan.

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 12:52 AM
I just can't imagine Casey placing a deceased Caylee in the house or burying her in the yard because of the two family dogs. Surely that would be very risky. She must have placed Caylee in the trunk and left pretty quickly or at least before Cindy was due home. I wonder if the next door neighbor remembered if Casey borrowed the shovel and then left the home quickly.

it really does seem risky but at the same time it would explain the dog hits in the backyard

LI_Mom
08-07-2008, 12:52 AM
UUUGGGHHHH - server busy

But gave me time to think. We are all going on what the GP's have said. We have no confirmation that George was actually working.

Here's a thought:

16th - Casey and Caylee are sleeping. Cindy gets up - goes to work - early prob 7-8ish.

George gets up - having coffee - whatever - not paying attention.

Caylee gets up (this could even happen BEFORE george is awake as well) - wanders into the pool - drowns.

George finds her - already gone. Decides to pin this on Casey. So - he goes into Casey's room - wakes her up asking where is Caylee - they BOTH go out to the pool and find her.

Cover up starts. Casey thinks its a cover up - but George is plotting to pin this all on her.

Anyone?

Not me.

I can't see George doing that instead of calling 911 immediately..... although imagining a life without Casey HAS TO BE pretty enticing. lol

And no way would Casey sit in jail missing all those parties to protect her father OR mother.

I still say it's ALL on Casey & her parents just refuse to accept the possibility that Casey would LIE about the death of her own daughter.

They could understand the lies about little things... the stealing.... the wasted life.... they cannot wrap their heads around the fact that she's a monster.

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 12:53 AM
I just don't think it happened at the house. She left with Caylee at approx 1. According to GP - he left at 2 - 2:30 and then the calls start at 3. She went somewhere else.

Today's CSI could also have been to rule things out - they do that as well. If that stain in the trunk was blood - there has to be a blood trail. It just didn't get in the trunk and that's it. Wonder if they have checked out tony's or ricardo's (she had stayed there as well). I don't think media has any of those places watched as closely as they do GP's house.

Plus if she went somewhere else with Caylee - prob to party - that could be the "source" or the other person we so crypticly heard elluded to on here earlier today.

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 12:53 AM
Well I don't think he suddenly remembered today. I'm pretty sure LE has had this info from the beginning. I was involved in a long drawn out courtcase that I had to give depos for. What they try to do is to get witnesses to explain why they remembered that day. Did you go to a wedding? Was it your kids birthday? That type of thing.

ita SuziQ...I think LE has had that info for a while..

liltigress
08-07-2008, 12:53 AM
A couple of things flash in my mind.

The ladder mention may be another cover-up for Casey. This will give her an excuse.

George's job is fairly new, he didn't have a job on June 16, was that confirmed? If that's so, he was there if something happened to Caylee on that day.

17th is more plausible for something going wrong. Casey tried calling everyone one the day before and was probably arguing with them. Then went into calling mode again on the 18th. By the 20th, she was back on the dance floor, bumping and grinding.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 12:53 AM
I don't think she buried her. I think she hid her. However, there was dirt in the trunk (attempt at burying her maybe) I don't think she drove around with her for days. She hid her and went back and got her. Maybe she covered her a bit with dirt to obscure her.
I'm confused now, did the police dig, did the dogs hit in the yard in a specific location? In order to hit on decomp she had to be there for it to be picked up on. I'm unaware of LE hitting anywhere else within the yrd, yet. Either way Decomp takes time, right?

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 12:53 AM
I don't think she buried her. I think she hid her. However, there was dirt in the trunk (attempt at burying her maybe) I don't think she drove around with her for days. She hid her and went back and got her. Maybe she covered her a bit with dirt to obscure her.
But where do you hide a body? Not in the trunk, the smell would have been unbearable by the second day. If Goerge and Cindy knew what happened, then she might have hidden her somewhere on the property. If they didn't, then where would hse have put Caylee where she knew she wouldn't be found? Casey doesn't strike me as the type that knows of a lot of nice wooded hiding spots.

blondietx
08-07-2008, 12:54 AM
She drove Amy's car in July while Amy was in PR (I don't recall those dates). And retrieved the car from impound on Tuesday July 15. This is the day when the ____ hit the fan.

Amy was in PR for a week and got back on 7/15. Casey picked her up from the airport. I'm assuming that she was gone from 7/8-7/15, give or take a day.

txsvicki
08-07-2008, 12:55 AM
Can a cadaver dog hit on blood that has dripped from a deceased person who is being carried across a yard? Casey could possibly have carried Caylee across the yard to the playhouse then went to the pool to scoop some water and rinse her hands off near the pool. There were the bruises that the hairdresser reported, so it could be possible that Casey beat her child for refusing to lie down and take a nap. The first flurry of phone calls would be about the right time for a toddler's nap.

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 12:55 AM
wow...really? how is that? interesting!
they have vans equipped. they can park the van and zoom right into your living room - DEA usually uses them - but only sporadically

You should see the room that Dept of HHS has in Washington - they can zoom right into your license plate, home, whatever.

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 12:55 AM
By the 20th, she was back on the dance floor, bumping and grinding.

sick isn't it!! :furious:

blondietx
08-07-2008, 12:56 AM
ita SuziQ...I think LE has had that info for a while..

Yes, probably so. That makes a lot more sense! WE just didn't know. As much as we wish we had every detail, this reminds me that we don't!

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 12:57 AM
Can a cadaver dog hit on blood that has dripped from a deceased person who is being carried across a yard? Casey could possibly have carried Caylee across the yard to the playhouse then went to the pool to scoop some water and rinse her hands off near the pool. There were the bruises that the hairdresser reported, so it could be possible that Casey beat her child for refusing to lie down and take a nap. The first flurry of phone calls would be about the right time for a toddler's nap.
I just looked that up, I know that they use at least 3 cc's of blood for the testing of cadaver dogs. I don't know if they can pick up less than that. I'll find the link.

gigi2009
08-07-2008, 12:57 AM
I agree. I don't think that she would have buried her and then just dug her up the same day. She owuld have had the spot where she was going to put her picked before she dug her up.
If she had stashed her in the trunk, it only would have taken 1 1/2 days for the body to putrefy, if she was buried closer to 4. So, still not sure what to think.

In the Video of the Caey's room she had her bed pushed up against a wall. She could have pt Caylee in a bag tied and hidden her under there. We have central air conditioning in Florida. I would say 90% of the home here do vs window units. It;s reasonable tot hink she could've kept caylee for the day it happened, overnight and then tried to bury her in the yard an realized can't do it for whatever reason. So she lays her down, bag rips on a stick or bamboo. Casey gets car and backs it up to load caylee in the trunk. Now there's fluid leaking out of the bag.

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 12:58 AM
Not me.

I can't see George doing that instead of calling 911 immediately..... although imagining a life without Casey HAS TO BE pretty enticing. lol

And no way would Casey sit in jail missing all those parties to protect her father OR mother.

I still say it's ALL on Casey & her parents just refuse to accept the possibility that Casey would LIE about the death of her own daughter.

They could understand the lies about little things... the stealing.... the wasted life.... they cannot wrap their heads around the fact that she's a monster.
then why did george take those gas cans out and put them back in the shed when that car smelled of death? He knew better - he should have never moved that car from the impound lout and now he's saying he got them back on the 24th when Casey "stopped in" for some clothes. According to timeline - the 24th - it was all pretty much over and that car had to have smelled by then as well.

liltigress
08-07-2008, 12:59 AM
I'm confused now, did the police dig, did the dogs hit in the yard in a specific location? In order to hit on decomp she had to be there for it to be picked up on. I'm unaware of LE hitting anywhere else within the yrd, yet. Either way Decomp takes time, right?

I thought they said the dogs hit on 3 places.

1. The sandbox with lid on it.
2. The playhouse.
3. The area near the shed?

LI_Mom
08-07-2008, 12:59 AM
Casey doesn't strike me as the type that knows of a lot of nice wooded hiding spots.

Those types of areas might be very popular with teens who want to drink & party & 'hook up.'

I wonder if any of Caseys friends could confirm whether they used to visit such a place & whether Caylee might be off on some trail near the area?

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 12:59 AM
I'm reposting this in case it got missed in the previous thread. Here are pictures of the Anthony's backyard. The last two are the most interesting. Make sure you read the captions.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/08/06/the-back-yard-where-casey-and-caylee-were-living/

TravelingBug
08-07-2008, 12:59 AM
What do you guys think about them taking the dogs to Tony's? Perhaps Casey would have had something with evidence there or on her own things? Thinking they'd only check at her mom and dads's house?

And I'm wondering about Casey saying she's "safe" as in the body would be intact, as in she didn't do anything to it, and "be home" as in they may be piecing things together (b/c of what she's deduced they're thinking as far as their line of questioning)? And she's saying it knowing people will take it literally?

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:00 AM
A couple of things flash in my mind.

The ladder mention may be another cover-up for Casey. This will give her an excuse.

George's job is fairly new, he didn't have a job on June 16, was that confirmed? If that's so, he was there if something happened to Caylee on that day.

17th is more plausible for something going wrong. Casey tried calling everyone one the day before and was probably arguing with them. Then went into calling mode again on the 18th. By the 20th, she was back on the dance floor, bumping and grinding.
We don't know when George left and when Casey returned or if she actually did leave. Just when we thought we were a tad closer we get more dates for the equation. If 17th day is a down day it makes sense though. I never heard one bit of this on Greta and I watched the whole thing. WT heck.

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 01:00 AM
I'm confused now, did the police dig, did the dogs hit in the yard in a specific location? In order to hit on decomp she had to be there for it to be picked up on. I'm unaware of LE hitting anywhere else within the yrd, yet. Either way Decomp takes time, right?
Yes, I remember eraly on seeing aerial shot from a helicopter of LE digging in the backyard- think it was from one of the local affliate news stations. You could go check those site out for the pics. I remember seeing them digging.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:01 AM
In the Video of the Caey's room she had her bed pushed up against a wall. She could have pt Caylee in a bag tied and hidden her under there. We have central air conditioning in Florida. I would say 90% of the home here do vs window units. It;s reasonable tot hink she could've kept caylee for the day it happened, overnight and then tried to bury her in the yard an realized can't do it for whatever reason. So she lays her down, bag rips on a stick or bamboo. Casey gets car and backs it up to load caylee in the trunk. Now there's fluid leaking out of the bag.
Nice theory. But I don't think that Cindy would have held up to that. or agreed. If someone had reported something suspicious about Caylee not being around, then her body would have been found in the house and there would have been no chance of getting out of this.
I know about central air, we have it up here too.:)

blondietx
08-07-2008, 01:01 AM
then why did george take those gas cans out and put them back in the shed when that car smelled of death? He knew better - he should have never moved that car from the impound lout and now he's saying he got them back on the 24th when Casey "stopped in" for some clothes. According to timeline - the 24th - it was all pretty much over and that car had to have smelled by then as well.

I still wonder if it did smell but Casey blamed it on carrying trash in her trunk at that point? Which is where he got his BS story about the trash? Possibly? Anyway, he believed her cause that's what they do - hang on Casey's every word. Plus, to his knowledge, Caylee was with Zanny! No alarms were set off - yet!

DianeB
08-07-2008, 01:01 AM
I can't give any proof, but Mark Fuhrman simply referred to the person as "my source." It was obvious that MF had a list of calls from Casey's cell phone to the person's she called. He could only have gotten that list from someone in LE, or from someone who doesn't want to be identified close to the situation (Lee?). As to the date the shovel was borrowed, it's possible that MF asked the neighbor himself, or someone in LE allowed that info to be leaked. In regards to the gate being open and pool ladder up, we don't know the source of this info either, but I doubt it came from Cindy or George.I don't question the phone record information - that can be independently verified.

I don't believe the pool ladder story, because I can't think of anyone it could have originated with other than Cindy or George.

Who is it you think could have been the source of this information, if not them?

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 01:02 AM
In the Video of the Caey's room she had her bed pushed up against a wall. She could have pt Caylee in a bag tied and hidden her under there. We have central air conditioning in Florida. I would say 90% of the home here do vs window units. It;s reasonable tot hink she could've kept caylee for the day it happened, overnight and then tried to bury her in the yard an realized can't do it for whatever reason. So she lays her down, bag rips on a stick or bamboo. Casey gets car and backs it up to load caylee in the trunk. Now there's fluid leaking out of the bag.
But remember the GP's have said they did not see Caylee or CASEY after the 16th - until George claims she stopped in on the 24th.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:03 AM
What do you guys think about them taking the dogs to Tony's? Perhaps Casey would have had something with evidence there or on her own things? Thinking they'd only check at her mom and dads's house?

And I'm wondering about Casey saying she's "safe" as in the body would be intact, as in she didn't do anything to it, and "be home" as in they may be piecing things together (b/c of what she's deduced they're thinking as far as their line of questioning)? And she's saying it knowing people will take it literally?
Question Cindy and George out of town 22-24th. Now why would a family leave two dogs, small bladders alone for even one day let alone two days? Who was left to care for the dogs?

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 01:03 AM
I thought they said the dogs hit on 3 places.

1. The sandbox with lid on it.
2. The playhouse.
3. The area near the shed?
Not on the sandbox

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:03 AM
June 13th last time Tony or DJ see Caylee alive
June 15th Cindy takes Caylee to Nursing Home Swims with her at night, puts ladder away
June 16th last time anyone sees Caylee alive
June 16th or 17th (not clear) Gate is found open and ladder back in place. GPS didn't do it.
June 16th Incessant phone calls from Casey to Parents go unanswered. Also a call to one business (?) and two friends
June 17 "Zanny" looks at apt at sawgrass
June 18th Shovel borrowed
June 20th photographed at Fusian
June 22 Gas cans stolen
June 24 George finds gas cans in caseys trunk she is uncomfortable and doesn't want him near the trunk
June 24th Is heard by Jesse telling Caylee to get off of the table
June 27th Car abandoned
June 30th Car Towed
July 3rd : Cindy writes blog about Caylee being taken from her due to jealousy
July 4th CaseyCooked for Dj stayed at Tonys claims Caylee is with Cindy when asked by Tony and DJ
July 8th through 15th Casey driving Amy's car and steals 1,000 dollars from her by forging checks and tells Amy that Amy packed it in her sleep.
July 16 th Finds out about car; Cindy tracks Casey down through Amy
July 16th Makes 911 Calls
July 17th Casey turns her myspace page into caylee is missing page and most comments during above period disappear.
July 17th Casey is arrested

Dogs hit in trunk, at corner of pool, near playhouse and sandbox. CSI does Luminor photography in back room of Anthony home.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:04 AM
Question Cindy and George out of town 22-24th. Now why would a family leave two dogs, small bladders alone for even one day let alone two days? Who was left to care for the dogs?

Excellent question.

maybe they took the dogs.

blondietx
08-07-2008, 01:04 AM
Question Cindy and George out of town 22-24th. Now why would a family leave two dogs, small bladders alone for even one day let alone two days? Who was left to care for the dogs?

Lee or Casey...

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:05 AM
There are pictures of the Anthony's backyard in post 134.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:06 AM
Here is the link for the test requirements for cadaver dogs.
It's PDF.
http://www.k9fleck.org/pdf%20documents/SARdog-B.pdf

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 01:06 AM
Question Cindy and George out of town 22-24th. Now why would a family leave two dogs, small bladders alone for even one day let alone two days? Who was left to care for the dogs?
I don't think they actually left. George said last night on Greta that he had been in the shed on Sunday the 22 and had no reason to go back into it until the 24 - which was when he reported it. Plus - like I said the cop was there at 10:30 on the 24th and now he says Casey shows up at 2 on the 24th - that's when he got the gas cans back - it ain't fittin' ain't fittin' just ain't fittin'

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:06 AM
Lee or Casey...

Or Holly? Isn't she a close family friend?

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:06 AM
Not on the sandbox
When did LE remove the play house? It would have been confiscated same day dogs hit.

liltigress
08-07-2008, 01:07 AM
Also, I'm about to throw another curve ball here...

The mail man leaves them a notice about the car being towed. They go get the letter from the post office but it is too late then to go get the car from the tow yard.

Wouldn't a tow yard be open longer than the post office?

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 01:07 AM
The last two are the most interesting. Make sure you read the captions.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/08/06/the-back-yard-where-casey-and-caylee-were-living/


that last one...per the gm le was interested in that area..what do you make of that?
they were really focused there when they looked at that yard that day..ie thier collections, attention , digging was there?

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 01:07 AM
I still wonder if it did smell but Casey blamed it on carrying trash in her trunk at that point? Which is where he got his BS story about the trash? Possibly? Anyway, he believed her cause that's what they do - hang on Casey's every word. Plus, to his knowledge, Caylee was with Zanny! No alarms were set off - yet!
There is NO MISTAKING THAT SMELL - no way - no how - George is ex-LE and knows exactly what that smell is.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:08 AM
Also, I'm about to throw another curve ball here...

The mail man leaves them a notice about the car being towed. They go get the letter from the post office but it is too late then to go get the car from the tow yard.

Wouldn't a tow yard be open longer than the post office?

Our post office closes at 7, impound lot at 4:30.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:09 AM
July 16 th Finds out about car; Cindy tracks Casey down through Amy
July 16th Makes 911 Calls
July 17th Casey turns her myspace page into caylee is missing page and most comments during above period disappear.
July 17th Casey is arrested

These dates are off a day. It all went down on the 15th and Casey is arrested on the 16th.

DianeB
08-07-2008, 01:09 AM
Wait a minute. I just watched Mark Fuhrman on Greta say that "the grandparents told me" about the pool ladder.

Ergo, zero credibility.

Angelray
08-07-2008, 01:10 AM
Something said on NG has bothered me all evening long. When she said that Casey is now saying that Caylee is in danger.. this made my heart sink as now I can not help but think she knows the puzzle is falling together. I will bet that Caylee will be found and Casey will try to say see I told you she was in danger and try to say someone else did it. That little girl that I dont even know has made me cry so much the last few days because I just have bad feelings and tonight made it worse.. God Bless you little Angel where ever you are, please let my feelings be wrong.

liltigress
08-07-2008, 01:10 AM
Our post office closes at 7, impound lot at 4:30.

The post office itself closes at 7, but what about the main office part where there is a person working?

SouthernMom
08-07-2008, 01:10 AM
Going back to Cindy's blog. What if Casey was jealous, but not of Caylee's feelings for her GPs? What if Cindy had it wrong and Casey was jealous of her parents feelings for Caylee?

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 01:11 AM
When did LE remove the play house? It would have been confiscated same day dogs hit.
think they just moved it to also move those "pavers" cause that is where the dogs hit. Found nothing - put it back. where I saw them digging was move over in the corner near the fence.

LI_Mom
08-07-2008, 01:11 AM
then why did george take those gas cans out and put them back in the shed when that car smelled of death? He knew better - he should have never moved that car from the impound lout and now he's saying he got them back on the 24th when Casey "stopped in" for some clothes. According to timeline - the 24th - it was all pretty much over and that car had to have smelled by then as well.

Sure, the GPs actions AFTER the fact are very questionable. They often sound like IDIOTS & sometimes they flat out lie.

I just don't believe in my heart that anyone in the family knows what happened to Caylee (except Casey).

I DO think they're digging a deeper hole for Casey.... giving her hope that her family actually believes her cockamamie lies is NOT in anyone's best interests.... not Caylee, not Casey & not themselves.

blondietx
08-07-2008, 01:12 AM
There is NO MISTAKING THAT SMELL - no way - no how - George is ex-LE and knows exactly what that smell is.

There is if he didn't want to acknowledge the unthinkable at that moment. With this family? I could totally see him saying "oh, okay, honey." I'm not saying it happened, I think it could be a possibility. When else would she have had that poor baby in her trunk? I think it has to be before the 24th.

Then again, we are assuming that they are telling the truth about the stolen gas cans being retrieved during Casey's 'drive-by' on the 24th!

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:12 AM
that last one...per the gm le was interested in that area..what do you make of that?
they were really focused there when they looked at that yard that day..ie thier collections, attention , digging was there?

I think Casey may have tried different spots to hide Caylee before finding a good place. That would explain the different hits.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:12 AM
But where do you hide a body? Not in the trunk, the smell would have been unbearable by the second day. If Goerge and Cindy knew what happened, then she might have hidden her somewhere on the property. If they didn't, then where would hse have put Caylee where she knew she wouldn't be found? Casey doesn't strike me as the type that knows of a lot of nice wooded hiding spots.

In the woods, anywhere! Not in plain site obviously.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:12 AM
I just looked that up, I know that they use at least 3 cc's of blood for the testing of cadaver dogs. I don't know if they can pick up less than that. I'll find the link.
Were not just talking blood though, we also have to consider body fluids which consists of more than blood. Sorry, for those who have never seen this, the body bloats, skin spits and oozes

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:12 AM
The post office itself closes at 7, but what about the main office part where there is a person working?

MOnday thru Thursday, 5. Friday and Saturday, 7. Closed Sunday. I just looked it up.

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 01:12 AM
Also, I'm about to throw another curve ball here...

The mail man leaves them a notice about the car being towed. They go get the letter from the post office but it is too late then to go get the car from the tow yard.

Wouldn't a tow yard be open longer than the post office?
think they got one of those slips - you have reigstered mail deals - on saturday july 12 or maybe even late monday july 14 - went to pick it up and the car on tuesday july 15

gigi2009
08-07-2008, 01:13 AM
Nice theory. But I don't think that Cindy would have held up to that. or agreed. If someone had reported something suspicious about Caylee not being around, then her body would have been found in the house and there would have been no chance of getting out of this.
I know about central air, we have it up here too.:)

I don't think Cindy even knew she was there. See? ( Cause at this time Grandma doesn't know Caylees dead) She's already been given all the excuses about who Caylee is with. Maybe Casey gave her some excuse like Hey I've already cleaned my room. No need to come in. Or she just locked her door and went out. I would think Casey would have a lock on her bedroom door. Cindy wouldn't be suspicious of that. It gave casey a night to think what is she gonna do. then she comes up with her plan (now caylees out of the room) and then when the car thing happens--Casey breaks down and tells her TallStorie.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:13 AM
Were not just talking blood though, we also have to consider body fluids which consists of more than blood. Sorry, for those who have never seen this, the body bloats, skin spits and oozes

Let me clarify, the question I was answering was about blood droplets specifically.

DianeB
08-07-2008, 01:14 AM
There is if he didn't want to acknowledge the unthinkable at that moment. With this family? I could totally see him saying "oh, okay, honey." I'm not saying it happened, I think it could be a possibility. When else would she have had that poor baby in her trunk? I think it has to be before the 24th.

Then again, we are assuming that they are telling the truth about the stolen gas cans being retrieved during Casey's 'drive-by' on the 24th!George is an ex-homicide detective. I think his training would kick in here, because at the time he picked up the car he had no idea whose decomposing body he smelled - he may have thought it was Casey.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:14 AM
I think Casey may have tried different spots to hide Caylee before finding a good place. That would explain the different hits.
Two hits, car and one area of the yard. What have I been missing, please point me to what else the dogs hit on.

blondietx
08-07-2008, 01:14 AM
Also, I'm about to throw another curve ball here...

The mail man leaves them a notice about the car being towed. They go get the letter from the post office but it is too late then to go get the car from the tow yard.

Wouldn't a tow yard be open longer than the post office?

I believe they didn't get the letter until 7/14. I just read that somewhere and that is when the impound lot had already closed. So, they went on Tuesday, 7/15.

Leila
08-07-2008, 01:15 AM
My theory states that she put Caylee in the trunk and moved her somewhere else in a panic. She is untraceable by phone all day on the 17th by Z. gonzales when and looked at an "apartment" and then on the 18th she borrows the shovel...with the premise of burying. Backs her car up to the garage? Where ever she originally put Caylee she goes back to get her and puts her in the trunk to bring her to where she finally dumps her after thinking about it. That is where the smell, hair, and stain come from.

Does anyone remember what day she abandoned the car? And what day she borrowed Amy's. This is important.

She dumped the Pontiac on June 27th and borrowed Amy's on July 8th or 9th.

TravelingBug
08-07-2008, 01:15 AM
I don't question the phone record information - that can be independently verified.

I don't believe the pool ladder story, because I can't think of anyone it could have originated with other than Cindy or George.

Who is it you think could have been the source of this information, if not them?

A someone or someones who were also there if Casey were doing something else and it happened when they were otherwise occupied?

The recipient of the phone calls from Casey (who I think would be Lee and Tony as the two likely for the two "unknowns")?

Any "accomplice" that most of the "talking heads" are theorizing there may be?

I don't know obviously, LOL, those are just my best guesses.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:15 AM
I don't think Cindy even knew she was there. See? ( Cause at this time Grandma doesn't know Caylees dead) She's already been given all the excuses about who Caylee is with. Maybe Casey gave her some excuse like Hey I've already cleaned my room. No need to come in. Or she just locked her door and went out. I would think Casey would have a lock on her bedroom door. Cindy wouldn't be suspicious of that. It gave casey a night to think what is she gonna do. then she comes up with her plan (now caylees out of the room) and then when the car thing happens--Casey breaks down and tells her TallStorie.

Gigi...

when I said she hid her I meant off of the property, in the woods some where. What was the tip about the school? Now Divers? She took her away from Cindy's home. She came back to get the shovel to bury her. She was most likely in the trunk when she backed her car up to the garage.

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 01:15 AM
I think Casey may have tried different spots to hide Caylee before finding a good place. That would explain the different hits.

yep...I think so too...so this was another place the dogs hit and I can see another item there that could be used to conceal something..

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:16 AM
George is an ex-homicide detective. I think his training would kick in here, because at the time he picked up the car he had no idea whose decomposing body he smelled - he may have thought it was Casey.
Some guy, he let mom go alone to find then confront Casey and stays at the home, calling Lee hey son I'm worried about mom come over. :rolleyes:

blondietx
08-07-2008, 01:16 AM
George is an ex-homicide detective. I think his training would kick in here, because at the time he picked up the car he had no idea whose decomposing body he smelled - he may have thought it was Casey.

You would think. However, we KNOW they've smelled the trunk now and have said that it smelled like a dead body. Yet, they still turned the other cheek and continue to defend their little princess!

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 01:16 AM
There is if he didn't want to acknowledge the unthinkable at that moment. With this family? I could totally see him saying "oh, okay, honey." I'm not saying it happened, I think it could be a possibility. When else would she have had that poor baby in her trunk? I think it has to be before the 24th.

Then again, we are assuming that they are telling the truth about the stolen gas cans being retrieved during Casey's 'drive-by' on the 24th!
exactly - that story is a CYA story for George - he got those gas cans back on July 15 when he got the car back and he knew that smell and yet he cleaned it out including putting those gas cans back - sorry but that is evidence tampering and he knows it. WHY would he have done that? He is ex-LE - he is not going to risk his butt going to jail for Casey's lies.

liltigress
08-07-2008, 01:16 AM
MOnday thru Thursday, 5. Friday and Saturday, 7. Closed Sunday. I just looked it up.

Thanks. I'm probably basing that on my little hick town post office. The doors stay open later but the window closes earlier where a live person would be.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:16 AM
Two hits, car and one area of the yard. What have I been missing, please point me to what else the dogs hit on.

You may be correct. I guess I'm just going by where the digging was done. By the pool, and in the play house area.

DianeB
08-07-2008, 01:17 AM
A someone or someones who were also there if Casey were doing something else and it happened when they were otherwise occupied?

The recipient of the phone calls from Casey (who I think would be Lee and Tony as the two likely for the two "unknowns")?

Any "accomplice" that most of the "talking heads" are theorizing there may be?

I don't know obviously, LOL, those are just my best guesses.Fuhrman said on Greta that it was "the grandparents" who told him about the gate and the pool ladder.

I'm not buying it.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:17 AM
yep...I think so too...so this was another place the dogs hit and I can see another item there that could be used to conceal something..
Asking again where do you and others feel the dogs factually hit?

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:17 AM
I don't think Cindy even knew she was there. See? ( Cause at this time Grandma doesn't know Caylees dead) She's already been given all the excuses about who Caylee is with. Maybe Casey gave her some excuse like Hey I've already cleaned my room. No need to come in. Or she just locked her door and went out. I would think Casey would have a lock on her bedroom door. Cindy wouldn't be suspicious of that. It gave casey a night to think what is she gonna do. then she comes up with her plan (now caylees out of the room) and then when the car thing happens--Casey breaks down and tells her TallStorie.

But with things always coming up missing around Casey, it doesn't mesh that Cindy wouldn't have gone in there. They probably went in there all the time when she wasn't home to see what they could find. That opinion may chage if there was a lock on her bedroom door, but I haven't heard anything about it yet.

gigi2009
08-07-2008, 01:18 AM
Were not just talking blood though, we also have to consider body fluids which consists of more than blood. Sorry, for those who have never seen this, the body bloats, skin spits and oozes


Bubbles too, splotches of vary colors,and don't forget the occasional rattles, sounds like groans ( which totally freaked me out! Rookie back then)

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:18 AM
DOG HITS

Trunk
Playhouse
Sandbox
Corner of Pool

Forensic Evidence so far...(that we know of)
Dirt sample taken from Backyard
Gas Cans
Shovel
Luminol Photography being performed inside the house ( In the Back)(which I believe faces the pool)
Hair like Caylees in trunk
Stain in trunk that hit under luminol (fluid or blood)
Smell in trunk which two detectives (Yuri, George) and a nurse (Cindy) identified as being decomposition.

12 bags of unknown evidence taken from home today

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 01:19 AM
Two hits, car and one area of the yard. What have I been missing, please point me to what else the dogs hit on.
dogs hit on (or near) playhouse and over in the corner where I saw that pic of them digging - I'm going to go find that picture.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:19 AM
Thanks. I'm probably basing that on my little hick town post office. The doors stay open later but the window closes earlier where a live person would be.

Not a problem, but remember I live at the other end of the country, so it really doesn't mean much.

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 01:19 AM
looking at the pics of the backyard I can see this is a place they may have used to hang out or entertain...maybe they didnt let the dog out there as much as people think...
my sis has a little boy 3...she also has a yorkie and they dont let the dog out there in the yard the baby plays in to roam and do his buisness...they take him for walks with the pooper scooper lol...
Cindy complained once about her dog being scared by reporters when she was trying to take the dog out..maybe they didnt let the dog out in the back much...but took him for walks instead ( trying to think about why the doggie wouldnt spot something if Casey had Caylee out there a day or two)

gigi2009
08-07-2008, 01:20 AM
Asking again where do you and others feel the dogs factually hit?

I'm dead on with the trunk as a fact. I'm trying to work through the monotonous Cindy rambling where the dogs hit.

gigi2009
08-07-2008, 01:22 AM
But with things always coming up missing around Casey, it doesn't mesh that Cindy wouldn't have gone in there. They probably went in there all the time when she wasn't home to see what they could find. That opinion may chage if there was a lock on her bedroom door, but I haven't heard anything about it yet.


Why would she steal from her own room--her stuff right? Casey steal other people's stuff LOL.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:22 AM
I'm dead on with the trunk as a fact. I'm trying to work through the monotonous Cindy rambling where the dogs hit.

Lol, which if Cindy can be believed, she showed Greta the area beside the pool.

liltigress
08-07-2008, 01:22 AM
I could have sworn on the first segment of Greta last night that Cindy told her the sandbox, the playhouse and around by the shed.

TravelingBug
08-07-2008, 01:23 AM
Fuhrman said on Greta that it was "the grandparents" who told him about the gate and the pool ladder.

I'm not buying it.

Thanks, saw your post about that after I made mine...and yeah, that does change it.

What do you think about having a dog at Tony's and/or taking her things from there? I still think she'd be apt to try to have done something (washed things, etc.) there knowing as soon as Caylee was noted gone they'd look at her folks since she was living there.

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 01:23 AM
I could have sworn on the first segment of Greta last night that Cindy told her the sandbox, the playhouse and around by the shed.

thats what i saw too

liltigress
08-07-2008, 01:24 AM
looking at the pics of the backyard I can see this is a place they may have used to hang out or entertain...maybe they didnt let the dog out there as much as people think...
my sis has a little boy 3...she also has a yorkie and they dont let the dog out there in the yard the baby plays in to roam and do his buisness...they take him for walks with the pooper scooper lol...
Cindy complained once about her dog being scared by reporters when she was trying to take the dog out..maybe they didnt let the dog out in the back much...but took him for walks instead ( trying to think about why the doggie wouldnt spot something if Casey had Caylee out there a day or two)

Yeah, remember them saying Casey was walking the dog and it shisted in their yard? She told them it wasn't her dog. I have a feeling they didn't let the dogs in the back yard to potty since Caylee played back there.

Imajica
08-07-2008, 01:24 AM
I'll say this when I looked at that ladder last night, I got goosebumps. Would the cadaver dogs hit on the ground by there IF she moved Caylee right away? I thought that they smelled only the smell of decomposition?? Does anyone know?:confused:

Please skip over this post if anyone is squeamish.

I did want to add to the issue of 'bodily fluids'. Sometimes when a person dies, their body will evacuate its bowels and bladder. The muscles that control the bladder and sphincter relax completely, and if there is enough bodily waste "waiting" for lack of a better term, the body releases it.

So it is possible if not likely that there was the presence of bodily waste as well.

I'm still catching up on the posts of the evening, but did anyone else wonder if perhaps CSI noticed something telling or suspicious during the uncut two hour Greta interview last night?

CSI was there already the day that George met them at the house this week. One would assume that something new had to catch their attention in order to bring them back again so quickly.

I would bet that Cindy did not give LE the $1000 tour that she gave Greta and the rest of the nation last night. In regards to all of the little 'homey' details about everything in Casey and Caylee's rooms and all of the other odd little details she provided about their lifestyle at home.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:24 AM
You may be correct. I guess I'm just going by where the digging was done. By the pool, and in the play house area.
Two spots one in the yard and one within the trunk area of the car. Tells me likely hood was yard to car then to parts unknown. I gather the body was moved rather quickly within a day and half. No more than three at the most and thats pushing it. Do the Anthony's have a deep freezer?

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:25 AM
Why would she steal from her own room--her stuff right? Casey steal other people's stuff LOL.

Yes, she stole from other people, but where do you think she stored her stolen stuff? I would think in her room. I thought I made that clear.

liltigress
08-07-2008, 01:25 AM
thats what i saw too

I just remember getting the creep factor when she said "sandbox" then Greta raised the lid.

DianeB
08-07-2008, 01:27 AM
Thanks, saw your post about that after I made mine...and yeah, that does change it.

What do you think about having a dog at Tony's and/or taking her things from there? I still think she'd be apt to try to have done something (washed things, etc.) there knowing as soon as Caylee was noted gone they'd look at her folks since she was living there.If Casey was doing the laundry at Tony's, it makes sense that she'd steal the Arm & Hammer laundry detergent George said was found in the trunk.

I can't remember the name of Tony's apt complex, so I don't know if it allows dogs.

But if Tony's roommate is accurate in saying that they didn't see Caylee after Friday June 13th, and Casey went there on Monday June 16th, either no one was home to see Caylee or Caylee never entered that apartment.

CarrieSis
08-07-2008, 01:27 AM
I was creeped out by the sandbox, but I think it was a visceral response to it being a coffin-like object and the whole "sacred vs profane" vibe (ie child's toy vs child's death).

I hope that's all it was, at least :/

I am wondering what news tomorrow will bring.

TravelingBug
08-07-2008, 01:29 AM
If Casey was doing the laundry at Tony's, it makes sense that she'd steal the Arm & Hammer laundry detergent George said was found in the trunk.

I can't remember the name of Tony's apt complex, so I don't know if it allows dogs.

But if Tony's roommate is accurate in saying that they didn't see Caylee after Friday June 13th, and Casey went there on Monday June 16th, either no one was home to see Caylee or Caylee never entered that apartment.

Sorry, I meant cadaver dogs. I could see her trying to clean up at some point when the guys were gone, and her leaving evidence that might be found by the dogs

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:29 AM
Two spots one in the yard and one within the trunk area of the car. Tells me likely hood was yard to car then to parts unknown. I gather the body was moved rather quickly within a day and half. No more than three at the most and thats pushing it. Do the Anthony's have a deep freezer?

Not that I have seen. Wonder if it would be in any of the garage pictures.

SouthernMom
08-07-2008, 01:30 AM
If Casey was doing the laundry at Tony's, it makes sense that she'd steal the Arm & Hammer laundry detergent George said was found in the trunk.

I can't remember the name of Tony's apt complex, so I don't know if it allows dogs.

But if Tony's roommate is accurate in saying that they didn't see Caylee after Friday June 13th, and Casey went there on Monday June 16th, either no one was home to see Caylee or Caylee never entered that apartment.

IIRC Casey was at Tony's apartment for most of the 2nd half of July cooking and cleaning and doing his laundry. She also accompanied him to his show at Fusion on the 20th.

Blink34
08-07-2008, 01:30 AM
Not that I have seen. Wonder if it would be in any of the garage pictures.
Not that I saw, but I did see alot of gardening tools that were supposedly in the shed..

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:30 AM
Please skip over this post if anyone is squeamish.

I did want to add to the issue of 'bodily fluids'. Sometimes when a person dies, their body will evacuate its bowels and bladder. The muscles that control the bladder and sphincter relax completely, and if there is enough bodily waste "waiting" for lack of a better term, the body releases it.

So it is possible if not likely that there was the presence of bodily waste as well.

I'm still catching up on the posts of the evening, but did anyone else wonder if perhaps CSI noticed something telling or suspicious during the uncut two hour Greta interview last night?

CSI was there already the day that George met them at the house this week. One would assume that something new had to catch their attention in order to bring them back again so quickly.

I would bet that Cindy did not give LE the $1000 tour that she gave Greta and the rest of the nation last night. In regards to all of the little 'homey' details about everything in Casey and Caylee's rooms and all of the other odd little details she provided about their lifestyle at home.
Its possible but keep in mind their doing what were doing with real evidence. They may have been just extending upon what they recently obtained from lab results and needed more comparatives from the interior to assist in the finalization portion of their work ups. This is going to now hold up most of the evidence in my opinion. More work to be done.

gigi2009
08-07-2008, 01:31 AM
Yes, she stole from other people, but where do you think she stored her stolen stuff? I would think in her room. I thought I made that clear.


AAH I must've missed that part or read it wrong. Okay I see your point. A very good point. Hmm...maybe she convinced her parents that it was behind her? She's lying about having a job and an income and she is moving, maybe Cindy wants to believe her and not snoop. Or she got caught snooping once before and Casey BLEW UP at her so Cindy swore she wouldn't snoop again.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:32 AM
Two spots one in the yard and one within the trunk area of the car. Tells me likely hood was yard to car then to parts unknown. I gather the body was moved rather quickly within a day and half. No more than three at the most and thats pushing it. Do the Anthony's have a deep freezer?

Now wait a sec, that kind of sneakiness is easy to run past an elderly person. Does Cindy's mom have one?

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:32 AM
I just remember getting the creep factor when she said "sandbox" then Greta raised the lid.

and did you catch Greta when she said "oh, it has a cover"....

SweetDreamOfYou
08-07-2008, 01:33 AM
would it have been legal for a camaraman to have been le? sorry but just wondering if they could have gotten around a search warrent that wqay or get info for one

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:33 AM
IIRC Casey was at Tony's apartment for most of the 2nd half of July cooking and cleaning and doing his laundry. She also accompanied him to his show at Fusion on the 20th.
I thought the room mate said she was there the last two weeks of June and not July? He said he stayed there as well.

liltigress
08-07-2008, 01:34 AM
and did you catch Greta when she said "oh, it has a cover"....

Yes, I sure did. Something about that just didn't sit well with me.

gigi2009
08-07-2008, 01:34 AM
Now wait a sec, that kind of sneakiness is easy to run past an elderly person. Does Cindy's mom have one?

Never saw Cindy's mom or George's parents, or any of their brothers or sisters if they have any. Nada, Zip, none.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:34 AM
I thought the room mate said she was there the last two weeks of June and not July? He said he stayed there as well.

IIRC that is correct.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:35 AM
July 8th to 15th…Casey was driving Amy’s car…Amy was in P. Rico for the week. Casey was reportedly staying with Ricardo Morales…an x-cop and x-boyfriend of Casey’s. Amy and Ricardo live across the street from the apt. Casey pointed out as housing the nanny.

TravelingBug
08-07-2008, 01:35 AM
and did you catch Greta when she said "oh, it has a cover"....

As did those large storage things back by the pool and shed. Seemed like something else Greta might have commented on for the same reason (given the size and cover and proximity to hit spots)

DianeB
08-07-2008, 01:35 AM
Sorry, I meant cadaver dogs. I could see her trying to clean up at some point when the guys were gone, and her leaving evidence that might be found by the dogsOh, sorry - I was wondering why you asked about dogs!

Casey said she kept her stuff in a "centralized location" at Tony's. Let's face it, she'd only been dating the guy a month and she was already moving stuff in there and "working" on a computer out of his place- maybe she didn't want to make him nervous that she was moving too fast, and tried to keep her stuff out of his way.

There could well be evidence there, maybe on a piece of clothing or ?

I remember reading that Tony's apt was gone over "with a fine-tooth comb" looking for the missing cell phone. Think maybe LE confiscated all of the stuff Casey had left at Tony's? They could have had cadaver dogs go over that stuff back at the station.

SouthernMom
08-07-2008, 01:36 AM
I thought the room mate said she was there the last two weeks of June and not July? He said he stayed there as well.
Sorry I meant June. I think she did return on the 16th but I haven't heard what time.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:38 AM
Never saw Cindy's mom or George's parents, or any of their brothers or sisters if they have any. Nada, Zip, none.

I know Cindy has a mom because of the father's day visit with her dad. It sounds like Cindy's mom lives on her own. She had sent an email regarding the father's day visit. And is that who Cindy was talking about who was 81 years old and tripped over one of the media cords?

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:38 AM
Now wait a sec, that kind of sneakiness is easy to run past an elderly person. Does Cindy's mom have one?
Not living with her, Cindy starting blurting out on the stand at the bond hearing about how its been hard on her mom with her dad in the nursing home and how she writes Cindy's aunt every night, when she was stopped as her statement was not relevant. When that happened, I thought gad, "woman let her speak a few seconds longer." You know Cindy she was going into a long reasoning which always gives insight. Ding dong what about grammie?

RoseRed
08-07-2008, 01:38 AM
There is NO MISTAKING THAT SMELL - no way - no how - George is ex-LE and knows exactly what that smell is.

Just because he was LE does not mean he ever smelled a dead body. So we can say he may have known but we can not be certain he knows what a dead body smells like.

ShinaLite
08-07-2008, 01:39 AM
ok something I was thinking...if there possibly was some kind of pool accident or incident wouldnt that mean the last thing Caylee was wearing was a bathing suit?

I do wonder what Casey took of Caylee's before that "mini vacation"

The gm's house seems to have such order to it...would she know what of Caylee's was missing? We never did get a report of what she was last wearing..there was something I think in the news but that was a description from a friend of the family that claimed to see her in a mall...

What was in the items from the bags of Casey's belongings they recovered from Tony's?

Did GF notice what Caylee was wearing on the 16th and can it be accounted for?

Is there anything GM can notice missing of Caylee's?

A long shot I guess...but just a thought

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:40 AM
I know Cindy has a mom because of the father's day visit with her dad. It sounds like Cindy's mom lives on her own. She had sent an email regarding the father's day visit. And is that who Cindy was talking about who was 81 years old and tripped over one of the media cords?
She sure did bring up the lil trip up over media hanging out on the lawn. Has LE checked to see if Ms Casey was anywhere near grandma with a sleeping Caylee?

DianeB
08-07-2008, 01:41 AM
Two spots one in the yard and one within the trunk area of the car. Tells me likely hood was yard to car then to parts unknown. I gather the body was moved rather quickly within a day and half. No more than three at the most and thats pushing it. Do the Anthony's have a deep freezer?Could be somewhere else to car to backyard back to car to somewhere else, if the death occurred elsewhere and a plan to bury Caylee in the backyard didn't pan out.

Casey told LE that on the day Caylee went 'missing', she went over to Tony's because she felt 'safe' and was 'pacing and worrying'.

I wonder if she shared any of this anxiety with Tony (if he was even home).

TravelingBug
08-07-2008, 01:41 AM
Oh, sorry - I was wondering why you asked about dogs!

Casey said she kept her stuff in a "centralized location" at Tony's. Let's face it, she'd only been dating the guy a month and she was already moving stuff in there and "working" on a computer out of his place- maybe she didn't want to make him nervous that she was moving too fast, and tried to keep her stuff out of his way.

There could well be evidence there, maybe on a piece of clothing or ?

I remember reading that Tony's apt was gone over "with a fine-tooth comb" looking for the missing cell phone. Think maybe LE confiscated all of the stuff Casey had left at Tony's? They could have had cadaver dogs go over that stuff back at the station.


LOL, didn't think about how "dogs" would be interpreted until your response. Actually that's interesting about "centralized location"...I had taken it is as leaving stuff there as her "base" while she supposedly was various other places (the beach, Amy's, etc.) not as in a "centralized location" at his house. I'd not thought of that take.

Good point about them looking for her phone there. I'd still think that'd be another place to take the dogs...just in case...and even Lee's. The places she'd know schedules of occupants well would be the places she'd probably try to deal with evidence, or even kill time while trying to figure out what to do.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:42 AM
You know Cindy she was going into a long reasoning which always gives insight. Ding dong what about grammie?

Makes you wonder if Casey could slip in and out of her house unoticed.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:44 AM
Just because he was LE does not mean he ever smelled a dead body. So we can say he may have known but we can not be certain he knows what a dead body smells like.

Ten years and former homicide detective? Oh yeah, George knows what a dead body smells like.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:44 AM
Just because he was LE does not mean he ever smelled a dead body. So we can say he may have known but we can not be certain he knows what a dead body smells like.
Can be correct if he never responded to a DOA but didn't he work a small town with a small force? Now if he actually was a homicide detective, there is no way around him missing that one, lol :)

SouthernMom
08-07-2008, 01:45 AM
Could be somewhere else to car to backyard back to car to somewhere else, if the death occurred elsewhere and a plan to bury Caylee in the backyard didn't pan out.

Casey told LE that on the day Caylee went 'missing', she went over to Tony's because she felt 'safe' and was 'pacing and worrying'.

I wonder if she shared any of this anxiety with Tony (if he was even home).

According to DJ, who was also there around this time, Casey acted like nothing was out of the ordinary.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:46 AM
Just because he was LE does not mean he ever smelled a dead body. So we can say he may have known but we can not be certain he knows what a dead body smells like.

yeah but Rose....he was in homicide. He has smelled it before. Actually I think he even said it himself.

not_my_kids
08-07-2008, 01:46 AM
AAH I must've missed that part or read it wrong. Okay I see your point. A very good point. Hmm...maybe she convinced her parents that it was behind her? She's lying about having a job and an income and she is moving, maybe Cindy wants to believe her and not snoop. Or she got caught snooping once before and Casey BLEW UP at her so Cindy swore she wouldn't snoop again.

I can see the blowup happening. I can only imagine what Casey would have done if someone had presented her with hard core evidence and refused to let her lie her way out of it. In fact, I am interested to see what kind of a reaction she will have if LE is able to do that to her.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:47 AM
Makes you wonder if Casey could slip in and out of her house unoticed.
She could have even spent time there with Caylee saying she is asleep. Twisted but if we need a wider window, off to Great Grandma's house its a thought along with the deep freeze. Could she be close to there now?

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:48 AM
yeah but Rose....he was in homicide. He has smelled it before. Actually I think he even said it himself.
LOL :) he did!

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:50 AM
LOL :) he did!

yeah and then went on about her running over a squirrel something. I cant deal.

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:50 AM
According to DJ, who was also there around this time, Casey acted like nothing was out of the ordinary.
I thought Casey went to Amy's boyfriends house to do the pacing for safety roll?

RoseRed
08-07-2008, 01:50 AM
Asking again where do you and others feel the dogs factually hit?

There are photos where LE dug but I only remember under the playhouse/pavers. Playhouse was moved and the pavers were stacked up while they dug underneath. Link to photos in the link thread IIRC.

Blink34
08-07-2008, 01:51 AM
Ten years and former homicide detective? Oh yeah, George knows what a dead body smells like.

right, it only takes once, ever.

Leila
08-07-2008, 01:51 AM
Just watched Mark F video. He says the Anthony's noticed Tuesday morning that the ladder was back up at the pool and the gate was open. That would have been Tuesday June 17th.

I caught that too. It sounds like they returned home late on the 16th and it was the next morning when the noted the gate open and ladder up.

Harry
08-07-2008, 01:52 AM
Why is the "pool ladder/open gate" story being given more credence than any of the other tall tales we've heard from this family?

Yes, the pool ladder was down in July when the backyard search was done. What outside corroboration do we have that Cindy and George are being truthful with respect to their sudden clarity about June 16th?

As much as I would like to believe these people, I mean the drowning scenario is plausible, but they lie about everything.

I have two experiences with drownings. One involved my neighbor and the other a dear friend. It is the worst thing you can ever imagine. I just die when I think about the pain those families will always endure. They are nice, nice families who had something unimaginable happen in their lives. A nightmare from which they will never awake. If drowning was the cause of Caylee's demise I can almost understand if Casey lost her mind at that point (and that is difficult for me to say because I think she is a piece of ****) but I cannot fathom concocting this absurd story. There are too many other situations going on. Her actions, her demeanor, her lack of horror and remorse and concern.

I think Casey killed her daughter and it was not an accident.

So for me, I do not believe the drowning story which is obviously being tossed about for response by the family. They are sick sick sick people and I am ashamed for them. Arrest them all!!!!!!!:mad:

DianeB
08-07-2008, 01:52 AM
Just because he was LE does not mean he ever smelled a dead body. So we can say he may have known but we can not be certain he knows what a dead body smells like.According to an Ohio newspaper (http://www.vindy.com/news/2008/jul/27/family-of-missing-child-has-valley-ties/), George was a detective in the sheriff's office for eleven years. I think it's unlikely that in all that time, he never had occasion to be around a dead body.

SuziQ
08-07-2008, 01:53 AM
She could have even spent time there with Caylee saying she is asleep. Twisted but if we need a wider window, off to Great Grandma's house its a thought along with the deep freeze. Could she be close to there now?

I'm not sure. I would definitely be interested in knowing more about this possible connection.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:53 AM
CHECK

FOR YOU:

DOG HITS

Trunk
Playhouse
Sandbox
Corner of Pool

Forensic Evidence so far...(that we know of)
Dirt sample taken from Backyard
Gas Cans
Shovel
Luminol Photography being performed inside the house ( In the Back)(which I believe faces the pool)
Hair like Caylees in trunk
Stain in trunk that hit under luminol (fluid or blood)
Smell in trunk which two detectives (Yuri, George) and a nurse (Cindy) identified as being decomposition.

12 bags of unknown evidence taken from home today
Edit/Delete Message

CheckDaFacts
08-07-2008, 01:53 AM
Could be somewhere else to car to backyard back to car to somewhere else, if the death occurred elsewhere and a plan to bury Caylee in the backyard didn't pan out.

Casey told LE that on the day Caylee went 'missing', she went over to Tony's because she felt 'safe' and was 'pacing and worrying'.

I wonder if she shared any of this anxiety with Tony (if he was even home).
Could be but the body would have to be in good shape with 1st transport and immediately after event happened, we know by final transport it was not.

Wise Old Owl
08-07-2008, 01:54 AM
I went to look for the "digging" pics. I had one and was working the rest when my "puter froze and I lost it all AAARRRGGGHHH.

I tried to look thru the pic thread but didn't see the ones I had. I went to WESH.com and WFTV. com wesh had one pic - showing them up against the wodden fence looked like back in the bamboo WFTV had video.

I know I saw them digging in the back corner of the yard. They also moved the playhouse and the concrete "stones" under there - WESH had those pics.

gigi2009
08-07-2008, 01:55 AM
Can be correct if he never responded to a DOA but didn't he work a small town with a small force? Now if he actually was a homicide detective, there is no way around him missing that one, lol :)

We had rookie cops do some ride alongs with us to get a feel for trauma, doas, and a list like you couldn't imagine. Interns from the hospital would do ride alongs to see how the golden hour starts in the field. And cops usually are present for dead body removal by the coronor.

Leila
08-07-2008, 01:56 AM
How did the neighbor suddenly remember the date was the 18th ?

It's been LE that has said "mid-June." Tonight Mark Fuhrman said it was June 18th. He may have interviewed the neighbor himself, or has talked to LE and gotten the info from them and was allowed to state it.

Busylady
08-07-2008, 01:56 AM
Most everything I am reading says dogs hit sandbox and by the pool, but they are not quotes from LE. They are mosty statements that Cindy is making saying LE told her that one dog hit those two areas but the second dog did not hit at all in the backyard.

shannon718
08-07-2008, 01:56 AM
Could be but the body would have to be in good shape with 1st transport and immediately after event happened, we know by final transport it was not.

Whatever happened, I strongly believe that Casey moved Caylees body from one place to another creating the smell in her trunk. Where they find Caylee will not be where she died.